From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  1 01:35:14 1993
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 09:20:46 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: pine newsreader
To: allan lummus <alummus@darkwing.uoregon.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9311301312.B5225-0100000@darkwing.uoregon.edu>
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On Tue, 30 Nov 1993, allan lummus wrote:

> How do I post or respond using the newsreader on Pine?
> For example to alt.baseball.st-louis.cardinals
> what do I write at the to: prompt?
> 

To post (or respond to the newsgroup), try mailing to 
alt-baseball-st-louis-cardinals@cs.utexas.edu
(I've not tried this with any alt groups myself)

To reply to the poster, just use reply.

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,                          Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF                Fax: 0734 753094



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  1 07:48:40 1993
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 16:27:27 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Reply-To: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Subject: rfc 822 again !
To: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312011654.F9744-0100000@nova15.vbo.dec.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi,

I just upgrade from 3.07 to 3.88 and noticed that the address beautifier 
has been improved. In 3.07 when I received a mail from a VAX-VMS node on 
my Ultrix system, strange things appeared  on the notification bottom 
line, in  the from field but I could easily cope with that.

Now, in 3.88 when I receive a mail from decnetnode::user, the notification 
bottom line is decnetnode@(null). Thus I don't know who is the sender.

When I read the message, the From field is something like:

If I want to reply to this user, the To field is something like:

decnetnode: : , Comments-which-are-in-round-braces-in-the-original-header 
<username@myultrix.domain.> ; ;

Actually, the above is a very big problem when I decide to reply. In this 
case, the To field gets automatically filled up with:

decnetnode:,
	     : ,
	     Comments-which-are-in-round-braces-in-the-original-header
	     ;,
	     ;

This means that I have to ^K 4 times and then put a correct To field. 
With 3.07, only one ^K was Ok.

My question is:
Is there something existin/planned for telling pine not to go thru the 
rfc822-address beautifier for incoming messages? I am thinking of a 
parameter in .pinerc for example.

Rgds,
/francois
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital Equipment SARL		|			   |
950 Route des Colles - BP 027	|      Francois Donze	   |
06901 SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS		|--------------------------|francois donze@VBO
	FRANCE			|			   |  ULYSSE::DONZE
 Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 		|E-mail: donze@vbo.dec.com |  DTN: 828-5481
 Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34		|			   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  1 09:49:24 1993
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 11:23:16 -0600 (CST)
From: Earl Fogel <fogel@herald.usask.ca>
Subject: Re: rfc 822 again !
To: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Cc: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312011654.F9744-0100000@nova15.vbo.dec.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312011155.F11946-0100000@herald.usask.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 1 Dec 1993, Francois Donze wrote:

> Now, in 3.88 when I receive a mail from decnetnode::user, the notification 
> bottom line is decnetnode@(null). Thus I don't know who is the sender.

I've made the following changes to pine3.88/imap/non-ANSI/c-client/rfc822.c
to allow our local Ultrix users to reply to mail from DECnet nodes.

Earl Fogel
Computing Services              phone: (306) 966-4861
University of Saskatchewan      email: earl.fogel@usask.ca
--

% diff rfc822.c.orig rfc822.c
790c790
<   char *p,*s;
---
>   char *p,*p1,*s;
798a799,816
> #ifndef STRICT_RFC822
>     /*
>      * convert host::user (DECnet address) to user@host
>      */
>     if ( (p1 = rfc822_parse_phrase (string)) && *p1 == ':' && *(p1+1) == ':') {
>         *p1 = '\0';
>         strcpy(tmp, string);
>         p1 += 2;
>         while (*p1)
>             *p++ = *p1++;
>         *p++ = '@';
>         p1 = tmp;
>         while (*p1)
>             *p++ = *p1++;
>         *p++ = ' ';
> 	p = string;
>     }
> #endif


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  1 10:24:19 1993
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Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 12:53:54 -0500 (EST)
From: "Jackie \"Oh!\" Owen" <jowen@ultrix.ramapo.edu>
Subject: Re: rfc 822 again !
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312011654.F9744-0100000@nova15.vbo.dec.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9312011253.A29359-0100000@ultrix.ramapo.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Along those same lines, we're experiencing a similar problem for outgoing
messages where when you send mail to a DECnet address (e.g., host::doe),
pine automatically appends the local hostname (becomes
host::doe@ultrix.ramapo.edu) which will not go through.  As Francois
asked, is there something in .pinerc that can be modified so that the
@ultrix.ramapo.edu is not automatically appended? 

Thanks in advance,

Jackie O.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Jackie Loucks Owen				Network Administrator
jowen@ultrix.ramapo.edu				Ramapo College of NJ
						Mahwah, NJ

        "Time flies like an arrow.  Fruit flies like a banana."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

On Wed, 1 Dec 1993, Francois Donze wrote:

> Hi,
> 
> I just upgrade from 3.07 to 3.88 and noticed that the address beautifier 
> has been improved. In 3.07 when I received a mail from a VAX-VMS node on 
> my Ultrix system, strange things appeared  on the notification bottom 
> line, in  the from field but I could easily cope with that.
> 
> Now, in 3.88 when I receive a mail from decnetnode::user, the notification 
> bottom line is decnetnode@(null). Thus I don't know who is the sender.
> 
> When I read the message, the From field is something like:
> 
> If I want to reply to this user, the To field is something like:
> 
> decnetnode: : , Comments-which-are-in-round-braces-in-the-original-header 
> <username@myultrix.domain.> ; ;
> 
> Actually, the above is a very big problem when I decide to reply. In this 
> case, the To field gets automatically filled up with:
> 
> decnetnode:,
> 	     : ,
> 	     Comments-which-are-in-round-braces-in-the-original-header
> 	     ;,
> 	     ;
> 
> This means that I have to ^K 4 times and then put a correct To field. 
> With 3.07, only one ^K was Ok.
> 
> My question is:
> Is there something existin/planned for telling pine not to go thru the 
> rfc822-address beautifier for incoming messages? I am thinking of a 
> parameter in .pinerc for example.
> 
> Rgds,
> /francois
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Digital Equipment SARL		|			   |
> 950 Route des Colles - BP 027	|      Francois Donze	   |
> 06901 SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS		|--------------------------|francois donze@VBO
> 	FRANCE			|			   |  ULYSSE::DONZE
>  Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 		|E-mail: donze@vbo.dec.com |  DTN: 828-5481
>  Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34		|			   |
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> 



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 06:09:02 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 14:50:59 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Reply-To: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Subject: Re: rfc 822 again !
To: earl.fogel@usask.ca
Cc: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312021455.A11528-0100000@nova15.vbo.dec.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII


Thanks for the tip. However I will need to hack deeper since mails I 
receice are usually something like:

frmrc::frgway::decprg::a1::markus.jiri

This means that the mail went thru several DECNET gateways. The result is 
a wonderful segmentation fault !.

Anyways, thank you, 

/francois
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital Equipment SARL		|			   |
950 Route des Colles - BP 027	|      Francois Donze	   |
06901 SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS		|--------------------------|francois donze@VBO
	FRANCE			|			   |  ULYSSE::DONZE
 Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 		|E-mail: donze@vbo.dec.com |  DTN: 828-5481
 Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34		|			   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 1 Dec 1993 sutra(null) wrote:

> On Wed, 1 Dec 1993, Francois Donze wrote:
> 
> > Now, in 3.88 when I receive a mail from decnetnode::user, the notification 
> > bottom line is decnetnode@(null). Thus I don't know who is the sender.
> 
> I've made the following changes to pine3.88/imap/non-ANSI/c-client/rfc822.c
> to allow our local Ultrix users to reply to mail from DECnet nodes.
> 
> Earl Fogel
> Computing Services              phone: (306) 966-4861
> University of Saskatchewan      email: earl.fogel@usask.ca
> --
> 
> % diff rfc822.c.orig rfc822.c
> 790c790
> <   char *p,*s;
> ---
> >   char *p,*p1,*s;
> 798a799,816
> > #ifndef STRICT_RFC822
> >     /*
> >      * convert host::user (DECnet address) to user@host
> >      */
> >     if ( (p1 = rfc822_parse_phrase (string)) && *p1 == ':' && *(p1+1) == ':') {
> >         *p1 = '\0';
> >         strcpy(tmp, string);
> >         p1 += 2;
> >         while (*p1)
> >             *p++ = *p1++;
> >         *p++ = '@';
> >         p1 = tmp;
> >         while (*p1)
> >             *p++ = *p1++;
> >         *p++ = ' ';
> > 	p = string;
> >     }
> > #endif
> 
> % ====== Internet headers and postmarks (see DECWRL::GATEWAY.DOC) ======
> % Received: by vbormc.vbo.dec.com; id AA03041; Wed, 1 Dec 93 19:17:05 +0100
> % Received: by mts-gw.pa.dec.com; id AA14841; Wed, 1 Dec 93 10:10:00 -0800
> % Received: by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA27030; Wed, 1 Dec 93 09:24:02 -080
> % Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu
> % Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu
> % Received: from herald.usask.ca by mx2.cac.washington.edu (5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA27024; Wed, 1 Dec 93 09:23:54 -080
> % Received: by herald.usask.ca (5.65/DEC-Ultrix/4.3) id AA22997; Wed, 1 Dec 1993 11:23:16 -0600 for pine-info@cac.washington.ed
> % Date: Wed, 1 Dec 1993 11:23:16 -0600 (CST)
> % From: Earl Fogel <fogel@herald.usask.ca>
> % Subject: Re: rfc 822 again !
> % To: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
> % Cc: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
> % In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312011654.F9744-0100000@nova15.vbo.dec.com>
> % Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312011155.F11946-0100000@herald.usask.ca>
> % Mime-Version: 1.0
> % Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
> 




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 06:49:10 1993
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From: dimou@dxcoms.cern.ch (M. Dimou-Zacharova)
Message-Id: <9312021424.AA21336@dxcoms.cern.ch>
Subject: customizing ctrl keys
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 15:24:09 +0100 (MET)
Reply-To: Maria.Dimou@cern.ch
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL22]
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Could I change the change the default control key values?
I have a user who complains that control/C and control/X are adjacent.
Thanks and sorry if this is a many times answered question
 - maria


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 09:04:13 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 08:40:20 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: customizing ctrl keys
To: Maria.Dimou@cern.ch
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <9312021424.AA21336@dxcoms.cern.ch>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312020834.G26297-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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Maria,

We feel that a keyboard mapping capability would inevitably lead to a 
support nightmare, so we have a strong resistance to allowing it.  

Thanks for the suggestion though!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, M. Dimou-Zacharova wrote:

> Could I change the change the default control key values?
> I have a user who complains that control/C and control/X are adjacent.
> Thanks and sorry if this is a many times answered question
>  - maria


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 09:11:51 1993
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	(Smail-3.1.28.1 #107) id m0p5HIA-00003dC; Thu, 2 Dec 93 16:54 GMT
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 16:54:09 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: re-syncing
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312021626.Q20358-0100000@bootes.cus.cam.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Is there any way one can force Pine to re-sync with the inbox? With the new 
2.5 minute sync interval in Pine 3.88 I find I am getting frustrated when 
my xbiff tells me I have mail, but Pine won't show it to me. It is almost 
worth keeping a dummy message there that one can delete, just for this 
purpose! (I'm happy with the 2.5 minute automatic re-syncing, it's just 
the odd occasion when you want to force things.)

Philip

--
Philip Hazel                   University Computing Service,
ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk             New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
P.Hazel@ucs.cam.ac.uk          England.  Phone: +44 223 334714



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 09:37:21 1993
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Date: 	Thu, 2 Dec 1993 12:23:23 -0500
From: Andy Poling <andy@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
Subject: Re: re-syncing
To: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312021626.Q20358-0100000@bootes.cus.cam.ac.uk>
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On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, Philip Hazel wrote:
> Is there any way one can force Pine to re-sync with the inbox? With the new 
> 2.5 minute sync interval in Pine 3.88 I find I am getting frustrated when 
> my xbiff tells me I have mail, but Pine won't show it to me. It is almost 
> worth keeping a dummy message there that one can delete, just for this 
> purpose! (I'm happy with the 2.5 minute automatic re-syncing, it's just 
> the odd occasion when you want to force things.)

I assume this still works in the latest release...

You can force it to re-check the mailbox for new messages by repeatedly
trying to go to a next message at the end of the index of messages.  I
think it takes 3 or 4 tries.

-Andy

Andy Poling                              Internet: andy@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
UNIX Systems Programmer                  Bitnet: ANDY@JHUNIX
Homewood Academic Computing              Voice: (410)516-8096    
Johns Hopkins University                 UUCP: uunet!mimsy!aplcen!jhunix!andy



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 09:52:07 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 09:29:20 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: re-syncing
To: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312021626.Q20358-0100000@bootes.cus.cam.ac.uk>
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Philip,

If you go  to the end of the index and hit 'N' a few times, it will force 
a check.

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, Philip Hazel wrote:

> Is there any way one can force Pine to re-sync with the inbox? With the new 
> 2.5 minute sync interval in Pine 3.88 I find I am getting frustrated when 
> my xbiff tells me I have mail, but Pine won't show it to me. It is almost 
> worth keeping a dummy message there that one can delete, just for this 
> purpose! (I'm happy with the 2.5 minute automatic re-syncing, it's just 
> the odd occasion when you want to force things.)
> 
> Philip
> 
> --
> Philip Hazel                   University Computing Service,
> ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk             New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
> P.Hazel@ucs.cam.ac.uk          England.  Phone: +44 223 334714
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 10:01:05 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 11:39:08 -0500 (CDT)
From: Richard Lee <rlee@uafhp.uark.edu>
Subject: Re: re-syncing
To: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312021626.Q20358-0100000@bootes.cus.cam.ac.uk>
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On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, Philip Hazel wrote:

> Is there any way one can force Pine to re-sync with the inbox? With the new 
> 2.5 minute sync interval in Pine 3.88 I find I am getting frustrated when 
> my xbiff tells me I have mail, but Pine won't show it to me. It is almost 
> worth keeping a dummy message there that one can delete, just for this 
> purpose! (I'm happy with the 2.5 minute automatic re-syncing, it's just 
> the odd occasion when you want to force things.)

	I don't understand all the details, but in general I concur:  I'd
like a way to say "I want to know *now* whether there is any mail
waiting." If I have MAILCHECK set to a low enough value in my environment,
I assume I could find out by trying to *exit* pine and then being told (as
I am trying to exit? or only when I get back to my shell prompt? that
there is mail waiting for me.  But I'd rather not try to exit just to find
if I have any new mail.  If I suspend (^Z) will I find there that mail is
waiting?  And if I "fg" back into pine will it be there immediately, or
might I have to wait up to 2.5 minutes? 

--

Dr. Richard Lee                         rlee@uafhp.uark.edu
Department of Philosophy Old Main 318   rlee@uafsysb.BITNET
University of Arkansas                  phone: 501-575-5826
Fayetteville, AR 72701




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 10:33:14 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 10:09:24 PST
From: Elmar Kurgpold <ekurgpol@Law.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: re-syncing
To: Richard Lee <rlee@uafhp.uark.edu>
Cc: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
X-Sender: ekurgpol@hal
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In 3.87, you can move to the index screen and press  "N" five times and 
it will re-read the inbox.  I haven't built 3.88 yet, but I'm sure the 
developers kept this feature in.


On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, Richard Lee wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, Philip Hazel wrote:
> 
> > Is there any way one can force Pine to re-sync with the inbox? With the new 
> > 2.5 minute sync interval in Pine 3.88 I find I am getting frustrated when 
> > my xbiff tells me I have mail, but Pine won't show it to me. It is almost 
> > worth keeping a dummy message there that one can delete, just for this 
> > purpose! (I'm happy with the 2.5 minute automatic re-syncing, it's just 
> > the odd occasion when you want to force things.)
> 
> 	I don't understand all the details, but in general I concur:  I'd
> like a way to say "I want to know *now* whether there is any mail
> waiting." If I have MAILCHECK set to a low enough value in my environment,
> I assume I could find out by trying to *exit* pine and then being told (as
> I am trying to exit? or only when I get back to my shell prompt? that
> there is mail waiting for me.  But I'd rather not try to exit just to find
> if I have any new mail.  If I suspend (^Z) will I find there that mail is
> waiting?  And if I "fg" back into pine will it be there immediately, or
> might I have to wait up to 2.5 minutes? 
> 
> --
> 
> Dr. Richard Lee                         rlee@uafhp.uark.edu
> Department of Philosophy Old Main 318   rlee@uafsysb.BITNET
> University of Arkansas                  phone: 501-575-5826
> Fayetteville, AR 72701
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 11:52:20 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 11:34:07 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Pine can't create Mailboxfiles
To: Guenter Mueller <gmueller@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>
Cc: pine-l <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9311091443.B27835-0100000@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>
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Guenter,

Sorry about the delayed reply.  Setting "mail-directory=Mail" in
/usr/local/lib/pine.conf should work.  I have tested it with both Pine3.87
and Pine3.88 on our systems.  If that does not work for you, please send me a
copy of a .pine-debug file so I can see what is happening. 

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 9 Nov 1993, Guenter Mueller wrote:

> Hello,
> I have made a system wide pine.conf file which forces the users to the 
> mail-directory Mail (with big M) for compatibility with elm. Now, when a 
> new user invokes pine who hasn't used elm before, pine can't create the 
> necessary folders. I think, this is a bug or isn't it???
> 
> Kind Regards
> 
> Guenter
> 
> P.S.: I'm using PINE 3.87
> 
> Guenter Mueller  gmueller@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de   Phone: +49 761 203 -4622
>          University of Freiburg - Computing Center     FAX:             -4643
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New Phone and FAX Numbers since 10.10.93 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 13:03:41 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 12:45:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Henry Kuo <hkuo@violet.berkeley.edu>
Subject: Newsgroup
To: dlm@cac.washington.edu
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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Hi! Everyone:

How can I read newsgroup by pine?


            `~~~~~~
             @(0-0)
---------oOO----^---OOo-------

^.^ Henry.........
------------------------------
                





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 13:37:59 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 13:16:08 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Newsgroup
To: Henry Kuo <hkuo@violet.berkeley.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312021250.A12156-0100000@violet.berkeley.edu>
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Henry,

You need to specify the news server in your .pinerc file.  Something like

news-collections=*{server/nntp}[*]

where "server" is the name of the NNTP server you want to use.  You will 
also need a .newsrc file as generated by another newsreader like rrn or 
nn.

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, Henry Kuo wrote:

> Hi! Everyone:
> 
> How can I read newsgroup by pine?
> 
> 
>             `~~~~~~
>              @(0-0)
> ---------oOO----^---OOo-------
> 
> ^.^ Henry.........
> ------------------------------
>                 
> 
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 14:14:50 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 14:02:32 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <thorpej@cs.orst.edu>
Subject: Addressbook collections...
To: The Happy Pine Thread <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312021345.A7927-0100000@mundania.CS.ORST.EDU>
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I have a feature request...

First of all, let me say how much I love the folder-collections feature, 
and incoming-mail-folder-thing...

Along this line, I was wondering if it would be possible to have tacked 
on to the Pine Feature Wish List the concept of addressbook-collections...

Here's my dilemma...I have MANY addresses in my addressbook, and am going 
to be adding around 100 more in the near future...I'd like to be able to 
keep addresses at NASA-Ames separate from addresses Intel...In the 
current addressbook format, they're all jumbled together in alphabetical 
order...And group them together as such...

Does anyone else have this problem, and if you've solved it, I _LOVE_ to 
hear your solutions!  And, who else would benefit from such a feature?

Later...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason R. Thorpe          |     'All standard...'     |    434 Weatherford Hall
OSU Computer Science     |    thorpej@cs.orst.edu    |     Corvallis, OR 97331
Support Staff            |  '...disclaimers apply.'  |          (503) 737-9533



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 14:22:00 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 17:08:41 -0500 (EST)
From: "Carolynn Seeley ( Spring )" <cseeley@offsv1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Reply-To: "Carolynn Seeley ( Spring )" <cseeley@offsv1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: Solaris 2.2 and PINE 3.88
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312021610.A26109-0100000@offsv1>
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII


Is anyone having problems running 3.88 on a Solaris 2.2 [System V Release 
4.0] ?  We have come up against one problem so far. The arrow keys don't 
work in the PICO editor. Makes life difficult. Suggestions?

It is running great on our SUN. Still in test mode, but enjoying 
the new features.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carolynn Seeley (Spring)             email:  cseeley@mcmaster.ca
Consultant, Desktop Support                  cseeley@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca
Computing and Information Services     
McMaster University, ABB-132
(905) 525-9140              x27090     
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 14:35:11 1993
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Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 14:18:20 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Addressbook collections...
To: "Jason R. Thorpe" <thorpej@cs.orst.edu>
Cc: The Happy Pine Thread <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312021345.A7927-0100000@mundania.CS.ORST.EDU>
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Jason,

This is definitely already on The List!  Also to be included will be 
remote and shared addressbooks.  At a later date we plan to add support 
for Directory Service lookups too.

Thanks for the suggestion!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, Jason R. Thorpe wrote:

> I have a feature request...
> 
> First of all, let me say how much I love the folder-collections feature, 
> and incoming-mail-folder-thing...
> 
> Along this line, I was wondering if it would be possible to have tacked 
> on to the Pine Feature Wish List the concept of addressbook-collections...
> 
> Here's my dilemma...I have MANY addresses in my addressbook, and am going 
> to be adding around 100 more in the near future...I'd like to be able to 
> keep addresses at NASA-Ames separate from addresses Intel...In the 
> current addressbook format, they're all jumbled together in alphabetical 
> order...And group them together as such...
> 
> Does anyone else have this problem, and if you've solved it, I _LOVE_ to 
> hear your solutions!  And, who else would benefit from such a feature?
> 
> Later...
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jason R. Thorpe          |     'All standard...'     |    434 Weatherford Hall
> OSU Computer Science     |    thorpej@cs.orst.edu    |     Corvallis, OR 97331
> Support Staff            |  '...disclaimers apply.'  |          (503) 737-9533
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 15:10:36 1993
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          id <02687-0@oxmail.ox.ac.uk>; Thu, 2 Dec 1993 22:54:43 +0000
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          Thu, 2 Dec 93 22:54:40 GMT
From: long%imagen.materials@ox.ac.uk (Neil J Long)
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 22:48:48 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Reply-To:
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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Hi 
Has anyone got a fudged work-around in order to generate a Reply-To: line 
in the header.
We are switching over to a centralised email distribution using a 
First.Last@dept.ox.ac.uk
address with re-directs to user@machine.dept.ox.ac.uk

Yes, I know elm can do this and it is planned for a future release but 
the present 'local-domain' won't do what is needed. Sendmail 8.6.4 has 
often been suggested - I can get it to build but am not confident with 
the .cf files.

Thanks
Neil

P.S> Anyone got 3.88 to build on an SGI running 5.1.1.1 yet without 
coredumping when pine is run?

__________________________________________________
Dr Neil J Long			phone: +44 (0) 865 273656
University of Oxford		FAX:   +44 (0) 865 273789
Department of Materials
__________________________________________________





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 15:34:34 1993
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	id m0p5HeS-0004HbC; Thu, 2 Dec 93 17:17 GMT
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 17:13:28 +0000
From: Patrick Heck <heck@evansville.edu>
Subject: PC-Pine
To: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9312021728.A2839-0100000@revival>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII



Our System Administrator is under the impression that PC-Pine (PINERC in
particular) must reside in the C:\PINE directory.  Is this true?  We have 
diskless workstations in some of our public labs so we can't even copy 
the necessary files to a local hard drive as the files are needed.

Patrick Heck
University of Evansville                     heck@evansville.edu
Evansville, IN   47722                       (812) 479-2193




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  2 23:36:21 1993
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	(NX5.67d/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27.MRC ) id AA22602; Thu, 2 Dec 93 23:18:37 -0800
Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 23:07:03 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: rfc 822 again !
To: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Cc: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312011654.F9744-0100000@nova15.vbo.dec.com>
Message-Id: <MailManager.754902423.21787.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hello -

     At the present time Pine only supports addresses in RFC-822 format, that
is, Internet Standard format.  Pine may, in the future, support non-Internet
format addresses such as DECnet or UUCP, but we can't make any promises at the
present time.

     Anyone who has dealt with multiple address formats with sendmail can tell
many horror stories about this topic.  It is not an easy problem.

     It is important to recognize that Pine is not ``beautifying'' addresses
out of some sense of esthetics.  Rather, Pine is parsing the addresses into an
internal data structure, which it uses both for the filtered display and for
constructing a reply.  What you see from Pine is Pine's understanding of what
the addresses in the message contain.

     When reading incoming messages, you can display the exact header of the
message, warts and all, by using the H command.  This toggles you between
literal and filtered header display.

     There is nothing that can be done about sending outgoing messages; when
entering an address in the composer you are actually entering a command to a
command input processor.  If that processor does not understand the address
format, it can't represent it in any reasonable fashion.

     There is a possible workaround, however; you can try using quoted
strings.  That is, instead of typing
	foo::bar::zap::user
type
	"foo::bar::zap::user"
This has been rumored to work at a number of sites, although it does require
some intelligence on the part of your mailer.  It has one major benefit; the
resulting address will be in valid Internet format so if the message escapes
to the non-DECnet world, it will be something that others can parse.

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec  3 01:08:41 1993
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          id AA36505; Fri, 3 Dec 1993 09:36:34 +0100
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 09:36:33 +0100 (MEZ)
From: Guenter Mueller <gmueller@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>
Subject: Re: Pine can't create Mailboxfiles
To: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-l <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312021134.D3286-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

---2065301175-143302914-754907793:#36146
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:

> Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 11:34:07 -0800 (PST)
> From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
> To: Guenter Mueller <gmueller@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>
> Cc: pine-l <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
> Subject: Re: Pine can't create Mailboxfiles
> 
> 
> Guenter,
> 
> Sorry about the delayed reply.  Setting "mail-directory=Mail" in
> /usr/local/lib/pine.conf should work.  I have tested it with both Pine3.87
> and Pine3.88 on our systems.  If that does not work for you, please send me a
> copy of a .pine-debug file so I can see what is happening. 
>
David,

I have just tried it again, but ... it doesn't work for me with version 3.88,
too. The situation is: the user is completely new (no directory $HOME/Mail
and I think this is importent:  NO .pinerc file, too) and you invoke pine,
pine is weeping about not able to create the necessary folders. I append a
brand new .pine-debug1 file. 

Kind Regards 
     Guenter
 
> Thanks for the report!
> 
> --DLM
> 
> |\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
> |/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
> 
> On Tue, 9 Nov 1993, Guenter Mueller wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> > I have made a system wide pine.conf file which forces the users to the 
> > mail-directory Mail (with big M) for compatibility with elm. Now, when a 
> > new user invokes pine who hasn't used elm before, pine can't create the 
> > necessary folders. I think, this is a bug or isn't it???
> > 
> > Kind Regards
> > 
> > Guenter
> > 
> > P.S.: I'm using PINE 3.87
> > 
> > Guenter Mueller  gmueller@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de   Phone: +49 761 203 -4622
> >          University of Freiburg - Computing Center     FAX:             -4643
> > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New Phone and FAX Numbers since 10.10.93 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> > 
> > 
> 

Guenter Mueller  gmueller@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de   Phone: +49 761 203 -4622
         University of Freiburg - Computing Center     FAX:             -4643
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New Phone and FAX Numbers since 10.10.93 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

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---2065301175-143302914-754907793:#36146--


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec  3 03:07:51 1993
Received: from mx2.cac.washington.edu by shivams.cac.washington.edu
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	(Smail-3.1.28.1 #107) id m0p5Y5K-00003QC; Fri, 3 Dec 93 10:50 GMT
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 10:50:01 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: re-syncing
To: Elmar Kurgpold <ekurgpol@Law.USC.EDU>
Cc: Richard Lee <rlee@uafhp.uark.edu>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_s.3.85.9312021051.A8473-0100000-0100000@0.0.0.0>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312031016.E9066-0100000@bootes.cus.cam.ac.uk>
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> In 3.87, you can move to the index screen and press  "N" five times and 
> it will re-read the inbox.  I haven't built 3.88 yet, but I'm sure the 
> developers kept this feature in.

Thanks to all who replied. I had tried X and N, but didn't think of 
repeating it. Why five?

--
Philip Hazel                   University Computing Service,
ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk             New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
P.Hazel@ucs.cam.ac.uk          England.  Phone: +44 223 334714



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec  3 12:28:48 1993
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Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 09:13:10 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: re-syncing
To: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: Elmar Kurgpold <ekurgpol@Law.USC.EDU>, Richard Lee <rlee@uafhp.uark.edu>,
        pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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The first two are freebies for the type-ahead-without-counting types, it 
is supposed to trigger on the third one, but sometimes takes four, five 
to be safe :-)  

If you want to save wear on your 'N' key, watch the upper left-hand 
corner of the screen for a '*' indicating a check in progress.

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 3 Dec 1993, Philip Hazel wrote:

> > In 3.87, you can move to the index screen and press  "N" five times and 
> > it will re-read the inbox.  I haven't built 3.88 yet, but I'm sure the 
> > developers kept this feature in.
> 
> Thanks to all who replied. I had tried X and N, but didn't think of 
> repeating it. Why five?
> 
> --
> Philip Hazel                   University Computing Service,
> ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk             New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
> P.Hazel@ucs.cam.ac.uk          England.  Phone: +44 223 334714
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec  3 12:30:18 1993
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Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 08:58:48 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Pine can't create Mailboxfiles
To: Guenter Mueller <gmueller@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>
Cc: pine-l <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312030921.A36146-0400000@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312030819.B23664-e200000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="-2065301175-143302914-754907793:#36146"

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

---2065301175-143302914-754907793:#36146
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII


Guenter,

Please try the attached pine.conf file.  I generated a fresh file with 
Pine 3.88 and copied your configuration, with a couple changes.  We have 
done quite a bit of work on the comments that get generated, so hopefully 
it will be more clear how to make future changes.

I hope this helps!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 3 Dec 1993, Guenter Mueller wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:
> 
> > Date: Thu, 2 Dec 1993 11:34:07 -0800 (PST)
> > From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
> > To: Guenter Mueller <gmueller@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>
> > Cc: pine-l <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
> > Subject: Re: Pine can't create Mailboxfiles
> > 
> > 
> > Guenter,
> > 
> > Sorry about the delayed reply.  Setting "mail-directory=Mail" in
> > /usr/local/lib/pine.conf should work.  I have tested it with both Pine3.87
> > and Pine3.88 on our systems.  If that does not work for you, please send me a
> > copy of a .pine-debug file so I can see what is happening. 
> >
> David,
> 
> I have just tried it again, but ... it doesn't work for me with version 3.88,
> too. The situation is: the user is completely new (no directory $HOME/Mail
> and I think this is importent:  NO .pinerc file, too) and you invoke pine,
> pine is weeping about not able to create the necessary folders. I append a
> brand new .pine-debug1 file. 
> 
> Kind Regards 
>      Guenter
>  
> > Thanks for the report!
> > 
> > --DLM
> > 
> > |\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
> > |/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> > University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> > 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
> > 
> > On Tue, 9 Nov 1993, Guenter Mueller wrote:
> > 
> > > Hello,
> > > I have made a system wide pine.conf file which forces the users to the 
> > > mail-directory Mail (with big M) for compatibility with elm. Now, when a 
> > > new user invokes pine who hasn't used elm before, pine can't create the 
> > > necessary folders. I think, this is a bug or isn't it???
> > > 
> > > Kind Regards
> > > 
> > > Guenter
> > > 
> > > P.S.: I'm using PINE 3.87
> > > 
> > > Guenter Mueller  gmueller@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de   Phone: +49 761 203 -4622
> > >          University of Freiburg - Computing Center     FAX:             -4643
> > > >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New Phone and FAX Numbers since 10.10.93 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> 
> Guenter Mueller  gmueller@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de   Phone: +49 761 203 -4622
>          University of Freiburg - Computing Center     FAX:             -4643
> >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New Phone and FAX Numbers since 10.10.93 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
> 
---2065301175-143302914-754907793:#36146
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---2065301175-143302914-754907793:#36146--


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec  3 14:22:48 1993
Received: from mx1.cac.washington.edu by shivams.cac.washington.edu
	(5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.29 ) id AA06853; Fri, 3 Dec 93 14:22:48 -0500
Received: by mx1.cac.washington.edu
	(5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA06518; Fri, 3 Dec 93 11:06:51 -0800
Errors-To: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Sender: owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Received: from Krypton.Mankato.MSUS.EDU by mx1.cac.washington.edu
	(5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA06512; Fri, 3 Dec 93 11:06:48 -0800
Received: from localhost (hayden@localhost) by krypton.mankato.msus.edu (8.6.4/8.6.4) id NAA18872; Fri, 3 Dec 1993 13:10:33 -0600
Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 13:10:33 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Subject: Re: re-syncing
To: Pine Info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312031307.A18708-0100000@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

How about a simple ^-key combination that will go through and sync up 
your current mailbox without having to go back tot he index and reef on 
'n' a bunch of times.

I get 'oodles' of mail (according to my sysadmin I account for something 
like 18% to 20% of all mail on our system).  I run newmail to let me know 
when it comes and as long as I'm in pine at that moment, I'd like to be 
able to sync up and deal with what just showed up.

Just a thought.

____         Robert A. Hayden          <=> hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
\  /__           -=-=-=-=-             <=>          -=-=-=-=-
 \/  /    Finger for Geek Code Info    <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
   \/   Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1)  GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
		       n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec  3 16:52:13 1993
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Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 15:37:22 -0500 (CDT)
From: Richard Lee <rlee@uafhp.uark.edu>
Subject: Re: re-syncing
To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Cc: Pine Info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312031307.A18708-0100000@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
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On Fri, 3 Dec 1993, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> How about a simple ^-key combination that will go through and sync up 
> your current mailbox without having to go back tot he index and reef on 
> 'n' a bunch of times.

	Oops.  They seem to be all out of ^-key codes.  Sold the last one 
for a print job.

--

Dr. Richard Lee                         rlee@uafhp.uark.edu
Department of Philosophy Old Main 318   rlee@uafsysb.BITNET
University of Arkansas                  phone: 501-575-5826
Fayetteville, AR 72701




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec  3 17:14:48 1993
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Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 16:03:35 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Subject: Re: re-syncing
To: Pine Info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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On Fri, 3 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:

> We are currently considering adding this to the ^L key.  That way you get 
> your mail checked and your screen repainted all in the same operation!

This makes sense, since it is after newmail tells me I've gotten mail 
(plastering its message in the center of the screen) that I want to 
sync-up and repaint.

Thanks guys.

____         Robert A. Hayden          <=> hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
\  /__           -=-=-=-=-             <=>          -=-=-=-=-
 \/  /    Finger for Geek Code Info    <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
   \/   Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
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From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec  3 17:15:37 1993
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Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 13:57:03 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: re-syncing
To: Richard Lee <rlee@uafhp.uark.edu>
Cc: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>,
        Pine Info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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We are currently considering adding this to the ^L key.  That way you get 
your mail checked and your screen repainted all in the same operation!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 3 Dec 1993, Richard Lee wrote:

> On Fri, 3 Dec 1993, Robert A. Hayden wrote:
> 
> > How about a simple ^-key combination that will go through and sync up 
> > your current mailbox without having to go back tot he index and reef on 
> > 'n' a bunch of times.
> 
> 	Oops.  They seem to be all out of ^-key codes.  Sold the last one 
> for a print job.
> 
> --
> 
> Dr. Richard Lee                         rlee@uafhp.uark.edu
> Department of Philosophy Old Main 318   rlee@uafsysb.BITNET
> University of Arkansas                  phone: 501-575-5826
> Fayetteville, AR 72701
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec  3 21:31:02 1993
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Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 19:04:22 -0600 (CST)
From: "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." <isma@redvax1.dgsca.unam.mx>
Reply-To: "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." <isma@redvax1.dgsca.unam.mx>
Subject: Re: Newsgroup
To: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: Henry Kuo <hkuo@violet.berkeley.edu>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312021308.N3286-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:

> 
> Henry,
> 
> You need to specify the news server in your .pinerc file.  Something like
> 
> news-collections=*{server/nntp}[*]
> 
> where "server" is the name of the NNTP server you want to use.  You will 
> also need a .newsrc file as generated by another newsreader like rrn or 
> nn.
> 
> --DLM
> 
> |\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
> |/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
> 
> On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, Henry Kuo wrote:
> 
> > Hi! Everyone:
> > 
> > How can I read newsgroup by pine?
> > 
> > 
> >             `~~~~~~
> >              @(0-0)
> > ---------oOO----^---OOo-------
> > 
> > ^.^ Henry.........
> > ------------------------------
> >                 

  That's O.K..
	In my ".pinerc" configuration file I have got it :

# news-collections specifies one or more collections of news groups.
# News collection syntax: optnl-label *{news-host/protocol}[]
# Examples:
# news-collections=News *[]   <-- if your login host carries news
# news-collections=Subscribed-Groups *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[]
news-collections=News *{news.u.washington.edu/imapd}[]
						^
  I haven't nntp yet...then type "imapd"--------|

  When PINE show me the folder's screen, exist a line about remote 
conection :

      " [ Select Here to See Expanded List ]"

Then I press <return> on it and PINE connect to news.u.washington.edu, but
ask me for a "login" and "password"....
   I don't know what type!!!

 Pardon if is it obvious... but I don't know what type...or 
news.u.washington.edu is not a server for "news"???

Than's in advance... :(

      /#######               E. Isaias Callejas M.
    /#       /############   Group System Managers from Microvax 3400 System
  /##      /##############   Coordination of Computing Services
  ###    /##           ###   Academic Computing
  ###    ###           ###   National University of Mexico
  ###    ##########    ###
  ###           ###    ###  =================================================
  ###           ##/    ###  
  ##############/      ##/   Internet :  isma@redvax1.dgsca.unam.mx
  ############/       #/     Bitnet   :  isma@redvax1.bitnet
              #######/ 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sat Dec  4 02:43:12 1993
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Date: Fri, 3 Dec 1993 23:26:21 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Newsgroup
To: "Isaias Callejas Mancilla." <isma@redvax1.dgsca.unam.mx>
Cc: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>,
        Henry Kuo <hkuo@violet.berkeley.edu>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312031803.B10600-0100000@redvax1.dgsca.unam.mx>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312032332.J12612-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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Isaias,
  "news.u.washington.edu" is only an example; it is not available to you
for news access.  You will need to find a news server (perhaps from
your Internet provider) that you can use.

Chances are you really do want to use nntp, since it is easier to find 
news servers that run nntp than those that run IMAPd and will let you 
have an account on them.  (Unlike nntp, IMAPd uses a newsrc file on 
the same machine as the news database.)

Remember that *for now* you must run another newsreader to initially
create a suitable newsrc file.  Once you have successfully read news via
some other program, presumably using nntp, it should be easy to get Pine
to do the same. 

-teg

On Fri, 3 Dec 1993, Isaias Callejas Mancilla. wrote:

> On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:
> 
> > 
> > Henry,
> > 
> > You need to specify the news server in your .pinerc file.  Something like
> > 
> > news-collections=*{server/nntp}[*]
> > 
> > where "server" is the name of the NNTP server you want to use.  You will 
> > also need a .newsrc file as generated by another newsreader like rrn or 
> > nn.
> > 
> > --DLM
> > 
> > |\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
> > |/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> > University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> > 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
> > 
> > On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, Henry Kuo wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi! Everyone:
> > > 
> > > How can I read newsgroup by pine?
> > > 
> > > 
> > >             `~~~~~~
> > >              @(0-0)
> > > ---------oOO----^---OOo-------
> > > 
> > > ^.^ Henry.........
> > > ------------------------------
> > >                 
> 
>   That's O.K..
> 	In my ".pinerc" configuration file I have got it :
> 
> # news-collections specifies one or more collections of news groups.
> # News collection syntax: optnl-label *{news-host/protocol}[]
> # Examples:
> # news-collections=News *[]   <-- if your login host carries news
> # news-collections=Subscribed-Groups *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[]
> news-collections=News *{news.u.washington.edu/imapd}[]
> 						^
>   I haven't nntp yet...then type "imapd"--------|
> 
>   When PINE show me the folder's screen, exist a line about remote 
> conection :
> 
>       " [ Select Here to See Expanded List ]"
> 
> Then I press <return> on it and PINE connect to news.u.washington.edu, but
> ask me for a "login" and "password"....
>    I don't know what type!!!
> 
>  Pardon if is it obvious... but I don't know what type...or 
> news.u.washington.edu is not a server for "news"???
> 
> Than's in advance... :(
> 
>       /#######               E. Isaias Callejas M.
>     /#       /############   Group System Managers from Microvax 3400 System
>   /##      /##############   Coordination of Computing Services
>   ###    /##           ###   Academic Computing
>   ###    ###           ###   National University of Mexico
>   ###    ##########    ###
>   ###           ###    ###  =================================================
>   ###           ##/    ###  
>   ##############/      ##/   Internet :  isma@redvax1.dgsca.unam.mx
>   ############/       #/     Bitnet   :  isma@redvax1.bitnet
>               #######/ 
> 
> 
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sat Dec  4 23:12:36 1993
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Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 21:45:50 -0500 (CDT)
From: Richard Lee <rlee@uafhp.uark.edu>
Subject: Cursor movement in Composer
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312032332.J12612-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9312042149.A3790-0100000@uafhp.uark.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

	When you consider whether to beef up the Composer editor in pine 
(I use 3.87) you might consider putting in cursor movements to the top 
and bottom of the file.  I find myself wanting to do that often and I 
don't think there are commands for doing that (as there are--as well as 
for everything else--in emacs).  Maybe this is your way of encouraging 
short, to-the-point, mail messages instead of ones hundreds of lines 
long.  ;-)
	To move to back to the top of a mail file I postpone and then 
select composer again to get back into it--I'm put right back into the 
first header.  To get to the end I could do a "where is" for my 
signature.  But these are work-arounds for commands I miss.  (No, I don't 
care to move back to vi, thanks.)
	Maybe there are strings that could be entered in reply to the ^W 
prompt (perhaps ^Y and ^V, respectively) to goto the top or bottom of the 
mail message?  That wouldn't take more command characters and would be 
easily avoided by those who don't want to learn any more complexities, 
yet put this feature (goto top and goto bottom) in a natural place.  
These choices could even appear on the bottom of the screen when ^W is 
pressed.  Just an idea.
 --

Dr. Richard Lee                         rlee@uafhp.uark.edu
Department of Philosophy Old Main 318   rlee@uafsysb.BITNET
University of Arkansas                  phone: 501-575-5826
Fayetteville, AR 72701




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Dec  5 01:03:01 1993
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	(5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA26415; Sat, 4 Dec 93 21:52:39 -0800
Date: Sat, 4 Dec 1993 21:52:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Cursor movement in Composer
To: Richard Lee <rlee@uafhp.uark.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312042149.A3790-0100000@uafhp.uark.edu>
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Richard,
Top and bottom cmds are definitely coming... We miss them, too!
(Notwithstanding the social engineering benefit of the status quo
that you point out :)

In fact, sub-cmds under ^W is a very probable solution.

-teg

On Sat, 4 Dec 1993, Richard Lee wrote:

> 	When you consider whether to beef up the Composer editor in pine 
> (I use 3.87) you might consider putting in cursor movements to the top 
> and bottom of the file.  I find myself wanting to do that often and I 
> don't think there are commands for doing that (as there are--as well as 
> for everything else--in emacs).  Maybe this is your way of encouraging 
> short, to-the-point, mail messages instead of ones hundreds of lines 
> long.  ;-)
> 	To move to back to the top of a mail file I postpone and then 
> select composer again to get back into it--I'm put right back into the 
> first header.  To get to the end I could do a "where is" for my 
> signature.  But these are work-arounds for commands I miss.  (No, I don't 
> care to move back to vi, thanks.)
> 	Maybe there are strings that could be entered in reply to the ^W 
> prompt (perhaps ^Y and ^V, respectively) to goto the top or bottom of the 
> mail message?  That wouldn't take more command characters and would be 
> easily avoided by those who don't want to learn any more complexities, 
> yet put this feature (goto top and goto bottom) in a natural place.  
> These choices could even appear on the bottom of the screen when ^W is 
> pressed.  Just an idea.
>  --
> 
> Dr. Richard Lee                         rlee@uafhp.uark.edu
> Department of Philosophy Old Main 318   rlee@uafsysb.BITNET
> University of Arkansas                  phone: 501-575-5826
> Fayetteville, AR 72701
> 
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 00:27:02 1993
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          id AA33447; Mon, 6 Dec 1993 08:50:09 +0100
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 08:50:08 +0100 (MEZ)
From: Guenter Mueller <gmueller@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>
Subject: Re: Pine can't create Mailboxfiles
To: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-l <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312030819.B23664-e200000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312060825.A28749-0100000@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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David,

thank you for your updated file "pine.conf" generated by pine3.88. It 
solves our "problems" completely! You have done a lot of work on it.

Kind Regards
Guenter

Guenter Mueller  gmueller@ibm4.ruf.uni-freiburg.de   Phone: +49 761 203 -4622
         University of Freiburg - Computing Center     FAX:             -4643
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> New Phone and FAX Numbers since 10.10.93 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 04:32:47 1993
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From: D.J.Peacock@reading.ac.uk
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 12:19:57 +0000
Message-Id: <28194.9312061219@suma3>
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Subject: uqroch/bin/Pine with this as part of the .pinerc
Content-Length: 2663


I keep mail on different topics in subdirectories of the mail folder - this
worked without a hitch in early versions of pine without any special
setting-up

Now with version 3.88 I cannot always save messages into folders in
subdirectories of mail

> New version 3.88 now in ~suqroch/bin/Pine
Fixed my folder does not exist when saving a message problem by starting


# One or more collections where saved messages are stored.
# The first one is the default collection for saves.  For example:
# folder-collections=saved-email     mail/[],
#                    widget-project  widget/[]
folder-collections=
cap     mail/CAP/[],
csc     mail/CSC/[],
shiva   mail/SHIVA/[],
folk    mail/FOLK/[],
smug    mail/SMUG/[],
hensa-news   mail/HENSA/[],
solaris       mail/SOL2/[],
network     mail/JIPS/[],
sun-managers           mail/SUN/[],
macintosh    mail/MAC/[],
networking    mail/NET/[],
arns      mail/ARNS/[],
sweby     mail/PETE/[],
sun-announcements     mail/PLUG/[]

ran Pine - and it used the folders in subdirectories of mail  - and when
I looked at .pinerc again ,a bit had been Added !!


# One or more collections where saved messages are stored.
# The first one is the default collection for saves.  For example:
# folder-collections=saved-email     mail/[],
#                    widget-project  widget/[]
folder-collections=mail/[]
cap     mail/CAP/[],
csc     mail/CSC/[],
shiva   mail/SHIVA/[],
folk    mail/FOLK/[],
smug    mail/SMUG/[],
hensa-news   mail/HENSA/[],
solaris       mail/SOL2/[],
network     mail/JIPS/[],
sun-managers           mail/SUN/[],
macintosh    mail/MAC/[],
networking    mail/NET/[],
arns      mail/ARNS/[],
sweby     mail/PETE/[],
sun-announcements     mail/PLUG/[]

Previously I had had the line

folder-collections=cap     mail/CAP/[],

which was associated with the sequence

save SUN/sendmail ?
create SUN/sendmail ?
mail/CAP/SUN/sendmail does not exist

which was annoying as mail/SUN/sendmail did exist ...
and after exiting Pine the line had changed to

folder-collections=cap     mail/CAP/[]






Indenting the folder-collection lines and putting 
folder-collections=cap	mail/CAP/[]

gave


Syntax error in /home/sufs1/ru8/su/suqpecoc/.pinerc: continuation line with noth
ing to continue:        cap     mail/CAP/[],
Syntax error in /home/sufs1/ru8/su/suqpecoc/.pinerc: continuation line with noth
ing to continue:        csc     mail/CSC/[],
Syntax error in /home/sufs1/ru8/su/suqpecoc/.pinerc: continuation line with noth



and I lost the rest of the .pinerc



David Peacock            d.peacock@uk.ac.reading
Computer Services Centre, University of Reading, 
Whiteknights, Reading, Berkshire,  RG6 2AF,  UK.


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 05:17:45 1993
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From: long%imagen.materials@ox.ac.uk (Neil J Long)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 13:00:12 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Enhancement request
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9312061312.A20870-0100000@imagen.materials.ox.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hi

One thought I had whilst ploughing through old saved mail looking for an 
address was - why is there no easy way to extract the from: address to a 
sort of address book (keeping the subject: line might also prove useful).

I could then trash lots of old email and just keep a list of people I 
have rec'd mail from (possibly even sent to?).

OK, so I could grep through mail folders looking for the headers but pine 
is all about ease-of-use.

Thanks
Neil







From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 06:18:52 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 14:00:56 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Brudenell <pmb1@tower.york.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Enhancement request
To: long <@oxford.ac.uk:long@imagen.materials>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312061312.A20870-0100000@imagen.materials.ox.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9312061456.A1112-0100000@tower.york.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Ummm... if you're asking for what I think you're asking, try looking at 
the "T" command (TakeAddr -- you can see it if you use the "O" (Other 
Commands) command) ... this takes the sender's details and adds them to 
your address book (prompting you to confirm the various parts).

						Mike B-)

On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, long wrote:

> Hi
> 
> One thought I had whilst ploughing through old saved mail looking for an 
> address was - why is there no easy way to extract the from: address to a 
> sort of address book (keeping the subject: line might also prove useful).
> 
> I could then trash lots of old email and just keep a list of people I 
> have rec'd mail from (possibly even sent to?).
> 
> OK, so I could grep through mail folders looking for the headers but pine 
> is all about ease-of-use.
> 
> Thanks
> Neil
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 06:34:33 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 14:19:14 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Enhancement request
To: long <@oxford.ac.uk:long@imagen.materials>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312061312.A20870-0100000@imagen.materials.ox.ac.uk>
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On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, long wrote:

> One thought I had whilst ploughing through old saved mail looking for an
> address was - why is there no easy way to extract the from: address to a
If you hit T(ake address) when reading a message, Pine will do this. You 
could put a comment into the "real name" field if it helps (I put 
phone/fax numbers here).

Mike


==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,                          Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF                Fax: 0734 753094



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 06:51:16 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 08:41:41 -0600 (CST)
From: "Amos A. Gouaux" <amos@unt.edu>
Subject: Re: Enhancement request
To: Neil J Long <long%imagen.materials@ox.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312061312.A20870-0100000@imagen.materials.ox.ac.uk>
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If I'm not mistaken, it almost sounds like you're asking for the ability 
to edit your mail folders from within pine.  Is that about right?


On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Neil J Long wrote:

> Hi
> 
> One thought I had whilst ploughing through old saved mail looking for an 
> address was - why is there no easy way to extract the from: address to a 
> sort of address book (keeping the subject: line might also prove useful).
> 
> I could then trash lots of old email and just keep a list of people I 
> have rec'd mail from (possibly even sent to?).
> 
> OK, so I could grep through mail folders looking for the headers but pine 
> is all about ease-of-use.
> 
> Thanks
> Neil


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 07:30:05 1993
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          Mon, 6 Dec 93 15:09:40 GMT
From: long%imagen.materials@ox.ac.uk (Neil J Long)
Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 15:02:47 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: Re: Enhancement request
To: "Amos A. Gouaux" <amos@unt.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312060823.A18805-0100000@sol.acs.unt.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9312061547.B21610-0100000@imagen.materials.ox.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Well, partly - I have received a number of emails pointing out the 'T' 
option but while this creates a new address book entry, 3 months later I 
will have no recollection of why that address/nickname was saved.

Even a 'snapshot' of the index list for a given folder would be useful 
since this contains dates and subjects so that the context of the mail is 
retained. It just seems crazy to hang on to mail content without any good 
reason.

I would like to see an address and 'subject' line or something grabbed 
out of the message. Clearly I have not thought this through but I am 
trying to see this from a new-growth viewpoint. I don't want to trigger 
the usual grep vs awk vs perl type script wars that so often happen with 
email lists.



__________________________________________________
On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Amos A. Gouaux wrote:

> If I'm not mistaken, it almost sounds like you're asking for the ability 
> to edit your mail folders from within pine.  Is that about right?
> 
> 
> On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Neil J Long wrote:
> 
> > Hi
> > 
> > One thought I had whilst ploughing through old saved mail looking for an 
> > address was - why is there no easy way to extract the from: address to a 
> > sort of address book (keeping the subject: line might also prove useful).
> > 
> > I could then trash lots of old email and just keep a list of people I 
> > have rec'd mail from (possibly even sent to?).
> > 
> > OK, so I could grep through mail folders looking for the headers but pine 
> > is all about ease-of-use.
> > 
> > Thanks
> > Neil
> 




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 08:22:37 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 08:03:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <mramey@u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Mike Ramey <mramey@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Enhancement request - PRINT FOLDER INDEX ???
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312061547.B21610-0100000@imagen.materials.ox.ac.uk>
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I have previously mentioned to the pine development team that:
  - "Y" while viewing the Addressbook prints the addressbook
  - "Y" while viewing a message prints the message
and
  - "Y" while viewing the folder index -SHOULD- print the folder index
    (reflecting any sorting options that have been selected!)

Also:
  - it should be possible to 'print' to a -FILE-.
    This would allow you to save the folder-index listing, 
    edit & sort it, and even file it as a message in a pine folder.
    (I tried setting my print command to both '> z.pine-prt' and
    '>> zz.pine-prt'; both of them created zero-length files 
    in -MY CURRENT WORKING DIRECTORY- (not in my home directory)!

This brings up a related point (which I have mentioned before):
  - I would like the "E"xtract command to create files
    in -MY CURRENT WORKING DIRECTORY- (not my home directory).
    Is this possible?
-mr

On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Neil J Long wrote:
> Even a 'snapshot' of the index list for a given folder would be useful 
> since this contains dates and subjects so that the context of the mail is 
> retained. It just seems crazy to hang on to mail content without any good 
> reason.
> I would like to see an address and 'subject' line or something grabbed 
> out of the message. 



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 08:40:40 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 08:26:05 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Enhancement request
To: Neil J Long <long%imagen.materials@ox.ac.uk>
Cc: "Amos A. Gouaux" <amos@unt.edu>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312061547.B21610-0100000@imagen.materials.ox.ac.uk>
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We plan to add at least a comment field to the addressbook.  Alternatively,
we are just starting to discuss a common addressbook format to be shared
between Pine and a few other applications (e.g.  XLview). 

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Neil J Long wrote:

> 
> Well, partly - I have received a number of emails pointing out the 'T' 
> option but while this creates a new address book entry, 3 months later I 
> will have no recollection of why that address/nickname was saved.
> 
> Even a 'snapshot' of the index list for a given folder would be useful 
> since this contains dates and subjects so that the context of the mail is 
> retained. It just seems crazy to hang on to mail content without any good 
> reason.
> 
> I would like to see an address and 'subject' line or something grabbed 
> out of the message. Clearly I have not thought this through but I am 
> trying to see this from a new-growth viewpoint. I don't want to trigger 
> the usual grep vs awk vs perl type script wars that so often happen with 
> email lists.
> 
> 
> 
> __________________________________________________
> On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Amos A. Gouaux wrote:
> 
> > If I'm not mistaken, it almost sounds like you're asking for the ability 
> > to edit your mail folders from within pine.  Is that about right?
> > 
> > 
> > On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Neil J Long wrote:
> > 
> > > Hi
> > > 
> > > One thought I had whilst ploughing through old saved mail looking for an 
> > > address was - why is there no easy way to extract the from: address to a 
> > > sort of address book (keeping the subject: line might also prove useful).
> > > 
> > > I could then trash lots of old email and just keep a list of people I 
> > > have rec'd mail from (possibly even sent to?).
> > > 
> > > OK, so I could grep through mail folders looking for the headers but pine 
> > > is all about ease-of-use.
> > > 
> > > Thanks
> > > Neil
> > 
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 08:47:30 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 08:32:34 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Enhancement request - PRINT FOLDER INDEX ???
To: Mike Ramey <mramey@u.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312060737.B11266-0100000@stein2.u.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312060825.D24301-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Mike,

We recognize the need for a capability to print the folder index.  The issue
of how to accomplish this is still open... 

To print to a file, try 'cat > printfile'.  

Thanks for the suggestions!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Mike Ramey wrote:

> I have previously mentioned to the pine development team that:
>   - "Y" while viewing the Addressbook prints the addressbook
>   - "Y" while viewing a message prints the message
> and
>   - "Y" while viewing the folder index -SHOULD- print the folder index
>     (reflecting any sorting options that have been selected!)
> 
> Also:
>   - it should be possible to 'print' to a -FILE-.
>     This would allow you to save the folder-index listing, 
>     edit & sort it, and even file it as a message in a pine folder.
>     (I tried setting my print command to both '> z.pine-prt' and
>     '>> zz.pine-prt'; both of them created zero-length files 
>     in -MY CURRENT WORKING DIRECTORY- (not in my home directory)!
> 
> This brings up a related point (which I have mentioned before):
>   - I would like the "E"xtract command to create files
>     in -MY CURRENT WORKING DIRECTORY- (not my home directory).
>     Is this possible?
> -mr
> 
> On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Neil J Long wrote:
> > Even a 'snapshot' of the index list for a given folder would be useful 
> > since this contains dates and subjects so that the context of the mail is 
> > retained. It just seems crazy to hang on to mail content without any good 
> > reason.
> > I would like to see an address and 'subject' line or something grabbed 
> > out of the message. 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 09:13:31 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 08:57:44 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: uqroch/bin/Pine with this as part of the .pinerc
To: D.J.Peacock@reading.ac.uk
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <28194.9312061219@suma3>
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David,

You got pretty close with the last one.  The following should get what 
you want:

folder-collections=cap		mail/CAP/[],
		csc     	mail/CSC/[],
		shiva   	mail/SHIVA/[],
		folk    	mail/FOLK/[],
		smug    	mail/SMUG/[],
		hensa-news   	mail/HENSA/[],
		solaris       	mail/SOL2/[],
		network     	mail/JIPS/[],
		sun-managers    mail/SUN/[],
		macintosh    	mail/MAC/[],
		networking    	mail/NET/[],
		arns      	mail/ARNS/[],
		sweby     	mail/PETE/[],
		sun-announcements     mail/PLUG/[]

The "continuation line with nothing to continue" error will happen if you 
have a blank line in the middle of the list.  The current version of Pine 
discards the unexpected continuation lines, but we will try to come up 
with a better solution for a future version.

If you have any other problems setting up your .pinerc, please send a copy of
the complete file as an attachment to pine-bugs@cac.washington.edu. 

I hope this helps!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 6 Dec 1993 D.J.Peacock@reading.ac.uk wrote:

> 
> I keep mail on different topics in subdirectories of the mail folder - this
> worked without a hitch in early versions of pine without any special
> setting-up
> 
> Now with version 3.88 I cannot always save messages into folders in
> subdirectories of mail
> 
> > New version 3.88 now in ~suqroch/bin/Pine
> Fixed my folder does not exist when saving a message problem by starting
> 
> 
> # One or more collections where saved messages are stored.
> # The first one is the default collection for saves.  For example:
> # folder-collections=saved-email     mail/[],
> #                    widget-project  widget/[]
> folder-collections=
> cap     mail/CAP/[],
> csc     mail/CSC/[],
> shiva   mail/SHIVA/[],
> folk    mail/FOLK/[],
> smug    mail/SMUG/[],
> hensa-news   mail/HENSA/[],
> solaris       mail/SOL2/[],
> network     mail/JIPS/[],
> sun-managers           mail/SUN/[],
> macintosh    mail/MAC/[],
> networking    mail/NET/[],
> arns      mail/ARNS/[],
> sweby     mail/PETE/[],
> sun-announcements     mail/PLUG/[]
> 
> ran Pine - and it used the folders in subdirectories of mail  - and when
> I looked at .pinerc again ,a bit had been Added !!
> 
> 
> # One or more collections where saved messages are stored.
> # The first one is the default collection for saves.  For example:
> # folder-collections=saved-email     mail/[],
> #                    widget-project  widget/[]
> folder-collections=mail/[]
> cap     mail/CAP/[],
> csc     mail/CSC/[],
> shiva   mail/SHIVA/[],
> folk    mail/FOLK/[],
> smug    mail/SMUG/[],
> hensa-news   mail/HENSA/[],
> solaris       mail/SOL2/[],
> network     mail/JIPS/[],
> sun-managers           mail/SUN/[],
> macintosh    mail/MAC/[],
> networking    mail/NET/[],
> arns      mail/ARNS/[],
> sweby     mail/PETE/[],
> sun-announcements     mail/PLUG/[]
> 
> Previously I had had the line
> 
> folder-collections=cap     mail/CAP/[],
> 
> which was associated with the sequence
> 
> save SUN/sendmail ?
> create SUN/sendmail ?
> mail/CAP/SUN/sendmail does not exist
> 
> which was annoying as mail/SUN/sendmail did exist ...
> and after exiting Pine the line had changed to
> 
> folder-collections=cap     mail/CAP/[]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Indenting the folder-collection lines and putting 
> folder-collections=cap	mail/CAP/[]
> 
> gave
> 
> 
> Syntax error in /home/sufs1/ru8/su/suqpecoc/.pinerc: continuation line with noth
> ing to continue:        cap     mail/CAP/[],
> Syntax error in /home/sufs1/ru8/su/suqpecoc/.pinerc: continuation line with noth
> ing to continue:        csc     mail/CSC/[],
> Syntax error in /home/sufs1/ru8/su/suqpecoc/.pinerc: continuation line with noth
> 
> 
> 
> and I lost the rest of the .pinerc
> 
> 
> 
> David Peacock            d.peacock@uk.ac.reading
> Computer Services Centre, University of Reading, 
> Whiteknights, Reading, Berkshire,  RG6 2AF,  UK.


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 10:26:01 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 10:13:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Enhancement request - PRINT FOLDER INDEX ???
To: Mike Ramey <mramey@u.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312060737.B11266-0100000@stein2.u.washington.edu>
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Mike,

I claim that a "Y" while viewing the folder index SHOULD NOT print the
entire folder index, any more than save, export, forward, or reply should
pertain to the entire index.  These commands (and print) apply to the
*current* --highlighted-- message, rather than all messages. 

This observation leaves two questions:
  -How does one print the entire index?  (I'm not sure how to solve this,
   but we'll give it some more thought.)
  -Is the fact that "Y" in the addressbook prints all entries rather
   than the *current/highlighted* entry a U.I. design bug that should
   be fixed?  (Probably not... I'm just acknowledging the inconsistency.)
   Same issue with printing the Folder List...

David has answered the question on printing.

Re saving/exporting to Current, rather than Home, directory: expect to
see an option to enable this in an upcoming release.

-teg

On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Mike Ramey wrote:

> I have previously mentioned to the pine development team that:
>   - "Y" while viewing the Addressbook prints the addressbook
>   - "Y" while viewing a message prints the message
> and
>   - "Y" while viewing the folder index -SHOULD- print the folder index
>     (reflecting any sorting options that have been selected!)
> 
> Also:
>   - it should be possible to 'print' to a -FILE-.
>     This would allow you to save the folder-index listing, 
>     edit & sort it, and even file it as a message in a pine folder.
>     (I tried setting my print command to both '> z.pine-prt' and
>     '>> zz.pine-prt'; both of them created zero-length files 
>     in -MY CURRENT WORKING DIRECTORY- (not in my home directory)!
> 
> This brings up a related point (which I have mentioned before):
>   - I would like the "E"xtract command to create files
>     in -MY CURRENT WORKING DIRECTORY- (not my home directory).
>     Is this possible?
> -mr
> 
> On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Neil J Long wrote:
> > Even a 'snapshot' of the index list for a given folder would be useful 
> > since this contains dates and subjects so that the context of the mail is 
> > retained. It just seems crazy to hang on to mail content without any good 
> > reason.
> > I would like to see an address and 'subject' line or something grabbed 
> > out of the message. 
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 10:36:29 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 10:15:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <mramey@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Enhancement request - PRINT FOLDER INDEX ???
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312060946.Z12708-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
> I claim that a "Y" while viewing the folder index SHOULD NOT print the
> entire folder index, any more than save, export, forward, or reply should
> pertain to the entire index.  These commands (and print) apply to the
> *current* --highlighted-- message, rather than all messages. 

I think "Y" to print the index makes perfect sense.  See below.
It -does- require the user to view the message before printing it.  OK.

> This observation leaves two questions:
>   -How does one print the entire index?  (I'm not sure how to solve this,
>    but we'll give it some more thought.)
>   -Is the fact that "Y" in the addressbook prints all entries rather
>    than the *current/highlighted* entry a U.I. design bug that should
>    be fixed?  (Probably not... I'm just acknowledging the inconsistency.)
>    Same issue with printing the Folder List...

I think "Y" to print the [entire] Addressbook also makes perfect sense.
I think if I needed hardcopy of just one entry, I would use my pencil.

> David has answered the question on printing.

I'm not sure what you are referring to.  An earlier [now deleted] message 
said something about 'cat ...' which didn't make sense to me.  I ignored 
it.  How do we use 'cat' in pine?

> Re saving/exporting to Current, rather than Home, directory: expect to
> see an option to enable this in an upcoming release.

Thank you for this.

> On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Mike Ramey wrote:
> 
> > I have previously mentioned to the pine development team that:
> >   - "Y" while viewing the Addressbook prints the addressbook
> >   - "Y" while viewing a message prints the message
> > and
> >   - "Y" while viewing the folder index -SHOULD- print the folder index
> >     (reflecting any sorting options that have been selected!)
> > 
> > Also:
> >   - it should be possible to 'print' to a -FILE-.
> >     This would allow you to save the folder-index listing, 
> >     edit & sort it, and even file it as a message in a pine folder.
> >     (I tried setting my print command to both '> z.pine-prt' and
> >     '>> zz.pine-prt'; both of them created zero-length files 
> >     in -MY CURRENT WORKING DIRECTORY- (not in my home directory)!
> > 
> > This brings up a related point (which I have mentioned before):
> >   - I would like the "E"xtract command to create files
> >     in -MY CURRENT WORKING DIRECTORY- (not my home directory).
> >     Is this possible?
> > -mr



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 11:11:05 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 10:57:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Enhancement request - PRINT FOLDER INDEX ???
To: Mike Ramey <mramey@u.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312061050.F27916-0100000@stein2.u.washington.edu>
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On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Mike Ramey wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
> > I claim that a "Y" while viewing the folder index SHOULD NOT print the
> > entire folder index, any more than save, export, forward, or reply should
> > pertain to the entire index.  These commands (and print) apply to the
> > *current* --highlighted-- message, rather than all messages. 
> 
> I think "Y" to print the index makes perfect sense.  See below.
> It -does- require the user to view the message before printing it.  OK.

If we did this, we'd have to eliminate the save, export, forward, reply,
and delete commands from the Folder Index view, and require the user to be
in the Message Text view to perform any of these operations --in order to be
consistent with the Print behavior you are proposing.  I'm unwilling to do
this, but as I said, we *will* look for a way to print the Index at some 
point.

-teg


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 11:29:31 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 13:35:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Schumacher <crschuma@hydra.naz.edu>
Reply-To: Chris Schumacher <crschuma@hydra.naz.edu>
Subject: Printing a message without the header.
To: Pine Information List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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Is there any way, from within Pine, to print a message without the header? 
We like to mail administrative reports to users and have them print them
out easily. However, the e-mail header messes up the report format,
especially, if we print something like a transcript that goes on a special
form. So, it would be nice if our users didn't have to save the message to 
a file, edit out the header, and then print the file.

   We have only been using Pine on our campus for about 2-3 weeks, so, I 
may be missing something obvious.
                                                      Thanks.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Chris Schumacher, System Administrator           Internet: crschuma@naz.edu
Nazareth College of Rochester             o
4245 East Avenue                         /~>     Phone:    (716) 586-2525 x252
Rochester, NY 14618                   o...(\     Fax:      (716) 586-2452
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=






From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 11:34:29 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 13:18:07 -0500 (CDT)
From: Richard Lee <rlee@uafhp.uark.edu>
Subject: Re: Enhancement request - PRINT FOLDER INDEX ???
To: Mike Ramey <mramey@u.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312061050.F27916-0100000@stein2.u.washington.edu>
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On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Mike Ramey wrote:

> On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
> > I claim that a "Y" while viewing the folder index SHOULD NOT print the
> > entire folder index, any more than save, export, forward, or reply should
> > pertain to the entire index.  These commands (and print) apply to the
> > *current* --highlighted-- message, rather than all messages. 
> 
> I think "Y" to print the index makes perfect sense.  See below.
> It -does- require the user to view the message before printing it.  OK.
> 
> > This observation leaves two questions:
> >   -How does one print the entire index?  (I'm not sure how to solve this,
> >    but we'll give it some more thought.)

	Well, there's always the main menu.  Maybe if you press "P" in 
the main menu with the index highlighted, you'd get that printed.  I 
don't like that solution because other things don't work from the main 
menu that way.  But there could be a extra choice at the main menu that 
would let you print (or rename or save etc.) the index of any folder.

--

Dr. Richard Lee                         rlee@uafhp.uark.edu
Department of Philosophy Old Main 318   rlee@uafsysb.BITNET
University of Arkansas                  phone: 501-575-5826
Fayetteville, AR 72701




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 12:08:02 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 11:54:38 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Printing a message without the header.
To: Chris Schumacher <crschuma@hydra.naz.edu>
Cc: Pine Information List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312061337.A22005-0100000@hydra.naz.edu>
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Chris,

Yes, you first need to use V(iewMsg) to view the message.  Then V(iewAttch)
to view an attachment.  At the next prompt give '1' for the body of the 
message.  This will bring up the Attachment Viewer with just the body of 
the message.  You can then press 'Y' to print.  You can also attach 
separate files and print them similarly.

I hope this helps!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Chris Schumacher wrote:

> 
> Is there any way, from within Pine, to print a message without the header? 
> We like to mail administrative reports to users and have them print them
> out easily. However, the e-mail header messes up the report format,
> especially, if we print something like a transcript that goes on a special
> form. So, it would be nice if our users didn't have to save the message to 
> a file, edit out the header, and then print the file.
> 
>    We have only been using Pine on our campus for about 2-3 weeks, so, I 
> may be missing something obvious.
>                                                       Thanks.
> 
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> Chris Schumacher, System Administrator           Internet: crschuma@naz.edu
> Nazareth College of Rochester             o
> 4245 East Avenue                         /~>     Phone:    (716) 586-2525 x252
> Rochester, NY 14618                   o...(\     Fax:      (716) 586-2452
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> 
> 
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 13:21:36 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 13:00:30 -0800 (PST)
From: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Reply-To: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Subject: View attchmnt
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Hi, Pine Group:
Somebody has mentioned about printing message without header this morning.
And somebody has suggested to V(iew the message) first, then view the
attchment, then issue print command to print the attchment.  

When I receive a message with attchment, there are always two line on the
buttom of the screen. It said that it can't display on the screen, use A to
save the attchment in a file.  Am I missing something here?  

I am using Micro VAX 3100, ultrix system, and Pine version 3.07. 

Thank you very much!


Sharon Deng
Assistant Director			Internet: deng@ultrix.uor.edu
Academic Computer Center			  deng@jccvms.uor.edu
University of Redlands			   Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963






From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec  6 14:33:37 1993
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Date: Mon, 6 Dec 1993 14:16:38 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: View attchmnt
To: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Cc: Pine Info Group <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9312061224.C8710-a100000@ultrix.uor.edu>
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Sharon,

This was due to a bug in the way Pine 3.07 labeled text attachments.  This is
fixed in later versions of Pine.  With Pine 3.07 you will need to save the
attachment to a file then print the file outside pine. 

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 6 Dec 1993, Sharon Deng wrote:

> 
> Hi, Pine Group:
> Somebody has mentioned about printing message without header this morning.
> And somebody has suggested to V(iew the message) first, then view the
> attchment, then issue print command to print the attchment.  
> 
> When I receive a message with attchment, there are always two line on the
> buttom of the screen. It said that it can't display on the screen, use A to
> save the attchment in a file.  Am I missing something here?  
> 
> I am using Micro VAX 3100, ultrix system, and Pine version 3.07. 
> 
> Thank you very much!
> 
> 
> Sharon Deng
> Assistant Director			Internet: deng@ultrix.uor.edu
> Academic Computer Center			  deng@jccvms.uor.edu
> University of Redlands			   Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963
> 
> 
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec  7 03:02:54 1993
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 10:42:40 +0000 (GMT)
From: "D.J.Peacock" <D.J.Peacock@reading.ac.uk>
Reply-To: "D.J.Peacock" <D.J.Peacock@reading.ac.uk>
Subject: pine confusing subdirectories and folders
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Cc: D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk
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I'm back again - pine 3.88 was still having trouble distinguishing
between folders and subdirectories in mail BUT there does seem to
be a solution - perhaps it is due to swapping between 3.07 and 3.88 ?

I amended my .pinerc as suggested and on trying to save to a folder
called  mail/SUN/xterm with 

SAVE to folder in <Primary> [saved-messages] : SUN/xterm

I ended up with a folder does not exist message

BUT it did work with pine 3.07 ...

Here's the .pinerc

# Updated by Pine(tm) 3.88, copyright 1989-1993 University of Washington.
#
# Pine configuration file -- customize as needed.
#
# This file sets the configuration options used by Pine and PC-Pine.  If you
# are using Pine on a Unix system, there may be a system-wide configuration
# file which sets the defaults for these variables.  There are comments in
# this file to explain each variable, but if you have questions about
# specific settings see the section on configuration options in the Pine
# notes.

# Your full name
personal-name=D.J.Peacock

# Your printer selection
printer=rsh sunserv lpr -Pcscpc

# Special print command if it isn't one of the standard printers
personal-print-command=rsh sunserv lpr -Pcscpc

# Date last time you were asked about deleting old sent-mail
last-time-prune-questioned=93.12

# Domain name you are in  e.g. nwnet.net, cac.washington.edu, bwc.org
user-domain=

# Eliminate host part from hostname, using only domain part for domain name
use-only-domain-name=

# Name/path of inbox. (Folder path name or "{host}inbox" for remote IMAP inbox)
inbox-path=

# If "yes" default folder name to sender when saving mail
# Elm-style-save is obsolete, use saved-msg-name-rule
elm-style-save=

# Include message header in inclusion of original mail when replying
# Header-in-reply is obsolete, use include-header-in-reply in feature-list
header-in-reply=

# The default folder where a copy of outgoing mail is saved
default-fcc=outgoing

# Name of SMTP server for sending mail. If blank, sendmail will be used
smtp-server=

# Editor to use in place of Pine's internal composer, Pico
editor=vi

# Program to view images if format such as GIF and TIFF
image-viewer=

# "seedling", "sapling" or "old-growth" for novice, intermediate and advanced
# Feature-level is obsolete, use feature-list
feature-level=old-growth

# Use old style forward/reply with new text and signature below included text
# Old-style-reply is obsolete, use signature-at-bottom in feature-list
old-style-reply=

# Name of file to read signature out of for inclusion in outgoing mail
signature-file=.tag

# Sub directory in users home directory where mail folders/files are kept
mail-directory=mail

# Character set used by your terminal e.g. US-ASCII, ISO-8859-1, ISO-8859-4
character-set=

# Will display all text without checking whether or not it is displayable
# Show-all-characters is obsolete, use show-all-characters in feature-list
# Show-all-characters is obsolete
#show-all-characters=


# List of folders other than INBOX that receive new messages.  Use only if
# you filter incoming email into multiple files or receive email on several
# different machines.  For example:
# incoming-folders=Consulting       {carson.u.washington.edu}filter/to-help,
#                  Widget-Project   {carson.u.washington.edu}filter/to-widget,
#                  Old-Student-Acct {imap.berkeley.edu}inbox
incoming-folders=

# One or more collections where saved messages are stored. 
# The first one is the default collection for saves.  For example:
# folder-collections=saved-email     mail/[],
#                    widget-project  widget/[]
folder-collections=Primary mail/[],
	cap		mail/CAP/[],
	csc             mail/CSC/[],
	shiva           mail/SHIVA/[],
	folk            mail/FOLK/[],
	smug            mail/SMUG/[],
	hensa-news      mail/HENSA/[],
	solaris         mail/SOL2/[],
	network         mail/JIPS/[],
	sun-managers    mail/SUN/[],
	macintosh       mail/MAC/[],
	networking      mail/NET/[],
	arns            mail/ARNS/[],
	sweby           mail/PETE/[],
	sun-announcements     mail/PLUG/[]

# One or more collections of news folders (e.g. *{news.u.washington.edu/nntp}[])
news-collections=

# The folder where a copy of read mail is saved.
read-message-folder=

# Filename of addressbook or full path name.
address-book=

# feature-list= comma-separated list of features from the following set:
# Note: the value "old-growth" is shorthand for the indicated features...
# enable-full-header-cmd        (included in old-growth set)
# enable-unix-pipe-cmd          (included in old-growth set)
# enable-bounce-cmd             (included in old-growth set)
# enable-alternate-editor-cmd   (included in old-growth set)
# enable-suspend                (included in old-growth set)
# enable-tab-completion         (included in old-growth set)
# enable-jump-shortcut          (included in old-growth set)
# quit-without-confirm          (included in old-growth set)
# enable-goto-cmd               (included in old-growth set)
# enable-apply-cmd              (included in old-growth set)
# enable-flag-cmd               (included in old-growth set)
# enable-zoom-cmd               (included in old-growth set)
# enable-forward-as-MIME
# expanded-view-of-folders
# use-function-keys
# include-header-in-reply
# signature-at-bottom
# show-all-characters
# delete-skips-deleted
# e.g.
# feature-list= old-growth, signature-at-bottom
feature-list=old-growth,
	signature-at-bottom

# Pine executes these keys upon startup (e.g. to view msg 13: i,j,1,3,CR,v)
initial-keystroke-list=

# saved-msg-name-rule= determines default folder name for Saves...
# Choose one: default-folder, by-sender, by-recipient last-folder-used
# Normal default is "default-folder"
saved-msg-name-rule=

# sort-key= order in which messages will be presented...
# Choose one: subject, from, arrival, date, cc, to, size
# Normal default is "arrival"
sort-key=date

# Version of Pine used last session (set automatically)
last-version-used=3.88

# personal-name specifies your full name as it should appear on outgoing 
mail.
# If unset, Unix Pine will obtain your full name from the system passwd file.
personal-name=D.J.Peacock
# Will display all text without checking whether or not it is displayable
show-all-characters=

Hmm - should those last lines be there ?
    - they duplicate earlier lines functionality - removed them and
    - all seems well now !

Here is the log from when pine3.88 was breaking

Debug output of the Pine program (at debug level 2).  Version 3.88
Tue Dec  7 10:21:34 1993

reading_pinerc "/usr/local/lib/pine.conf"
Read 2437 characters
pinerc : /usr/local/l :              printer : "2"
pinerc : /usr/local/l :          user-domain : "reading.ac.uk"
pinerc : /usr/local/l : use-only-domain-name : "no"
pinerc : /usr/local/l :       elm-style-save : "no"
pinerc : /usr/local/l :      header-in-reply : "no"
pinerc : /usr/local/l :          default-fcc : ""
pinerc : /usr/local/l :        bugs-nickname : "advisory"
pinerc : /usr/local/l :        bugs-fullname : "CSC Advisory"
pinerc : /usr/local/l :         bugs-address : "Advisory@Reading.ac.uk"
pinerc : /usr/local/l :               editor : "/usr/local/emacs"
pinerc : /usr/local/l :        feature-level : "seedling"
pinerc : /usr/local/l :      old-style-reply : "yes"
pinerc : /usr/local/l :       mail-directory : "mail"
pinerc : /usr/local/l :         compose-mime : "yes"
pinerc : /usr/local/l :  show-all-characters : "yes"
reading_pinerc "/home/sufs1/ru8/su/suqpecoc/.pinerc"
Read 5689 characters
pinerc : /home/sufs1/ :        personal-name : "D.J.Peacock"
pinerc : /home/sufs1/ :              printer : "rsh sunserv lpr -Pcscpc"
pinerc : /home/sufs1/ : personal-print-comma : "rsh sunserv lpr -Pcscpc"
pinerc : /home/sufs1/ : last-time-prune-ques : "93.12"
pinerc : /home/sufs1/ :          default-fcc : "outgoing"
pinerc : /home/sufs1/ :               editor : "vi"
pinerc : /home/sufs1/ :        feature-level : "old-growth"
pinerc : /home/sufs1/ :       signature-file : ".tag"
pinerc : /home/sufs1/ :       mail-directory : "mail"
pinerc : /home/sufs1/ :   folder-collections : "Primary mail/[]"
pinerc : /home/sufs1/ :         feature-list : "old-growth"
pinerc : /home/sufs1/ :             sort-key : "date"
pinerc : /home/sufs1/ :    last-version-used : "3.88"
    personal-name :        D.J.Peacock            <unset>            <unset>
          user-id :            <unset>            <unset>            <unset>
      user-domain :            <unset>      reading.ac.uk      reading.ac.uk
      smtp-server :            <unset>            <unset>            <unset>
       inbox-path :            <unset>              inbox              inbox
 incoming-folders :            <unset>            <unset>            <unset>
folder-collection :    Primary mail/[]            <unset>    Primary mail/[]
 news-collections :            <unset>            <unset>            <unset>
      default-fcc :           outgoing                              outgoing
   mail-directory :               mail               mail               mail
read-message-fold :            <unset>            <unset>            <unset>
   signature-file :               .tag         .signature               .tag
     address-book :            <unset>       .addressbook       .addressbook
     feature-list :         old-growth            <unset>         old-growth
initial-keystroke :            <unset>            <unset>            <unset>
saved-msg-name-ru :            <unset>     default-folder     default-folder
         sort-key :               date            arrival               date
    character-set :            <unset>            <unset>            <unset>
           editor :                 vi   /usr/local/emacs                 vi
     image-viewer :            <unset>            <unset>            <unset>
use-only-domain-n :            <unset>                 no                 no
          printer : rsh sunserv lpr -P                  2 rsh sunserv lpr -P
personal-print-co : rsh sunserv lpr -P            <unset> rsh sunserv lpr -P
 standard-printer :            <unset>                 lp                 lp
last-time-prune-q :              93.12            <unset>              93.12
last-version-used :               3.88            <unset>               3.88
    bugs-nickname :            <unset>           advisory           advisory
    bugs-fullname :            <unset>       CSC Advisory       CSC Advisory
     bugs-address :            <unset> Advisory@Reading.a Advisory@Reading.a
   elm-style-save :            <unset>                 no                 no
  header-in-reply :            <unset>                 no                 no
    feature-level :         old-growth           seedling         old-growth
  old-style-reply :            <unset>                yes                yes
     compose-mime :            <unset>                yes            <unset>
show-all-characte :            <unset>                yes            <unset>
   save-by-sender :            <unset>                 no                 no
Userid: suqpecoc
Fullname: "D.J.Peacock"
User domain name being used "reading.ac.uk"
Local Domain name being used "suma3"
Host name being used "suma3"
Mail Domain name being used "reading.ac.uk"
ioctl(TIOCWINSZ) failed :Invalid argument
Terminal type: vt100
Context mail/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/CAP/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/CSC/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/SHIVA/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/FOLK/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/SMUG/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/HENSA/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/SOL2/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/JIPS/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/SUN/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/MAC/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/NET/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/ARNS/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/PETE/[] type: LOCAL
Context mail/PLUG/[] type: LOCAL
About to open folder "INBOX"    inbox: "INBOX"
Opened folder "/var/mail/suqpecoc" with 41 messages
Sorting by date


    ---- MAIN_MENU_SCREEN ----


 ---- MAIL INDEX ----
IMAP 10:21 12/7 mm_log ERROR: mail/SUN/xterm is not a valid mailbox


    ---- FOLDER SCREEN ----
broach folder, name entered "SUN"
About to open folder "SUN"    inbox: "INBOX"
Close - saved inbox state: real 35, max 41
IMAP 10:22 12/7 mm_log ERROR: mail/SUN is not a mailbox
MAIL_CMD: quit


    ---- QUIT SCREEN ----
expunge and close mail stream "/var/mail/suqpecoc"
about to end_tty_driver




David Peacock            d.peacock@uk.ac.reading
Computer Services Centre, University of Reading, 
Whiteknights, Reading, Berkshire,  RG6 2AF,  UK.






From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec  7 07:03:29 1993
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 14:39:14 GMT
From: Laurie Cuthbert <L.G.Cuthbert@qmw.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Domane name stamping
To: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <ECS9312071414F@elec.qmw.ac.uk>
Priority: Normal
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On Tue, 7 Dec 1993 14:11:35 +0000 (GMT) Philip Hazel wrote:

>> Aha. I too am running smail, but I am running with Nigel Metheringham's 
> bindlib, with maximum header re-writing turned on. Thus I don't get 
> messages delivered with no qualification. You can get these mods from 
> amp.york.ac.uk if you are interested. 

That sounds like a good idea - it might cure a number of other problems
> 
> HOWEVER, this morning I munged a message in a folder by hand to remove the 
> qualifications, and pine 3.88 still displayed it to me with "cus.cam.ac.uk" 
> added to each address. Wait ... dim bell rings ... I have it. It is only 
> with "full headers" turned OFF that I get it qualified. If I turn "full 
> headers" on, the message is displayed exactly as it is in the folder. 

This is true, except with us it adds theMACHINE NAME when headers are OFF, but I've 
discovered only in the inbox - when I open the same message saved in the received folder it 
puts on a proper qualifucation - as I go backwards and forwards between the folders it 
consistently changes things:

in the INBOX:

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 14:23 GMT
From: Laurie Cuthbert <laurie@osprey>
Reply to: Laurie Cuthbert <laurie@elec.qmw.ac.uk>
To: laurie@osprey
Subject: test

in the received folder:

Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 14:23 GMT
From: Laurie Cuthbert <laurie@elec.qmw.ac.uk>
To: laurie@elec.qmw.ac.uk
Subject: test
 
Stranger and stranger!

> This does not bother me. What bothered me in 3.07 was that if you replied 
> to such a message, it added the machine name. This is no longer the case in 
> 3.8x; the domain name gets added when creating the addressee when replying. 
> This was the reason I patched 3.07, but didn't need to patch 3.8x.
> 
That is exactly the problem with us - if you reply from the INBOX it _does_ reply to the machine 
name.

I'm copying this to the list again to see if anyone else has seen it.

Thanks anyway

Laurie






From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec  7 07:28:59 1993
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 15:08:07 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Domane name stamping
To: Laurie Cuthbert <L.G.Cuthbert@qmw.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <ECS9312071414F@elec.qmw.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312071542.d27600-0100000@bootes.cus.cam.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> That is exactly the problem with us - if you reply from the INBOX it _does_ reply to the machine 
> name.

Aha! That's the difference. I had not tried replying from the INBOX. I 
would think that is a bug, which the Pine people would like to hear about.
I'll do a test to see if I can confirm it, and post to the list myself if I 
can.

Philip

--
Philip Hazel                   University Computing Service,
ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk             New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
P.Hazel@ucs.cam.ac.uk          England.  Phone: +44 223 334714



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec  7 11:16:59 1993
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 10:51:19 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Domane name stamping
To: Laurie Cuthbert <L.G.Cuthbert@qmw.ac.uk>
Cc: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <ECS9312071414F@elec.qmw.ac.uk>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Laurie,

Is one of your folders a remote IMAP folder?  If that is the case, an
unqualified name will get a different qualification.  In the case of a local
folder, the address is getting generated locally, so the local hostname
information is used.  If user-domain is set in your .pinerc it will be used,
otherwise the hostname returned by the system (as modified by the
use-only-domain variable) will be used.  For an IMAP folder, Pine uses an
envelope generated by the IMAP server and thus will use the server's
hostname.  In any case, pine or imapd just makes the best guess it can with
the information it has available. 

The full headers mode just displays the raw message with no parsing or
formatting. 

I hope this clears things up a little!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 7 Dec 1993, Laurie Cuthbert wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> On Tue, 7 Dec 1993 14:11:35 +0000 (GMT) Philip Hazel wrote:
> 
> >> Aha. I too am running smail, but I am running with Nigel Metheringham's 
> > bindlib, with maximum header re-writing turned on. Thus I don't get 
> > messages delivered with no qualification. You can get these mods from 
> > amp.york.ac.uk if you are interested. 
> 
> That sounds like a good idea - it might cure a number of other problems
> > 
> > HOWEVER, this morning I munged a message in a folder by hand to remove the 
> > qualifications, and pine 3.88 still displayed it to me with "cus.cam.ac.uk" 
> > added to each address. Wait ... dim bell rings ... I have it. It is only 
> > with "full headers" turned OFF that I get it qualified. If I turn "full 
> > headers" on, the message is displayed exactly as it is in the folder. 
> 
> This is true, except with us it adds theMACHINE NAME when headers are OFF, but I've 
> discovered only in the inbox - when I open the same message saved in the received folder it 
> puts on a proper qualifucation - as I go backwards and forwards between the folders it 
> consistently changes things:
> 
> in the INBOX:
> 
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 14:23 GMT
> From: Laurie Cuthbert <laurie@osprey>
> Reply to: Laurie Cuthbert <laurie@elec.qmw.ac.uk>
> To: laurie@osprey
> Subject: test
> 
> in the received folder:
> 
> Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 14:23 GMT
> From: Laurie Cuthbert <laurie@elec.qmw.ac.uk>
> To: laurie@elec.qmw.ac.uk
> Subject: test
>  
> Stranger and stranger!
> 
> > This does not bother me. What bothered me in 3.07 was that if you replied 
> > to such a message, it added the machine name. This is no longer the case in 
> > 3.8x; the domain name gets added when creating the addressee when replying. 
> > This was the reason I patched 3.07, but didn't need to patch 3.8x.
> > 
> That is exactly the problem with us - if you reply from the INBOX it _does_ reply to the machine 
> name.
> 
> I'm copying this to the list again to see if anyone else has seen it.
> 
> Thanks anyway
> 
> Laurie
> 
> 
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec  7 12:43:42 1993
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 20:26:33 +0000 (GMT)
From: Laurie Cuthbert <L.G.Cuthbert@qmw.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Laurie Cuthbert <L.G.Cuthbert@qmw.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Domain name stamping
To: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312071046.N25762-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312072002.A16671-0100000@osprey>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII

David

You have given us the answer!

The received folder is a local folder - this gets the correct 
fully-qualified name, INBOX is an IMAP folder (actually on the same 
machine) and this only gets given the hostname.

I can prove this by changing the inbox-path to be either accessed by IMAP 
or simply as a path:

inbox-path={osprey}inbox

From: Laurie Cuthbert <laurie@elec.qmw.ac.uk>
To: laurie@osprey
Subject: test

inbox-path=/var/spool/mail/laurie

From: Laurie Cuthbert <laurie@elec.qmw.ac.uk>
To: laurie@elec.qmw.ac.uk
Subject: test

(the outgoing header is correct because we correct that in smail)

Is there any way to modify the interpretation of the header in IMAP 
folders to preferably mimic the behaviour with the local folder - it 
would certainly be a lot neater. In fact, it would even be better to 
leave the name unqualified rather than to add the hostname.

We intend to move away from NFS mounted mail folders as soon as possible 
and move entirely to IMAP so this actually is slightly inconvenient.

I agree that the MUA should NOT generate unqualified addresses - and we 
are rapidly throwing away those that are guilty (including Eudora), but 
it is difficult to get rid of them all. (It is impossible to stop 
everyone using /usr/ucb/mail !!)

The problem didn't surface until recently because it was masked by the UK 
configuration kit for sendmail which enables us to force qualification of 
all headers. Having changed to smail, which does distinguish between 
envelope and message headers it has now shown up.

Thanks again

Regards

Laurie 

On Tue, 7 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:

> Is one of your folders a remote IMAP folder?  If that is the case, an
> unqualified name will get a different qualification.  In the case of a local
> folder, the address is getting generated locally, so the local hostname
> information is used.  If user-domain is set in your .pinerc it will be used,
> otherwise the hostname returned by the system (as modified by the
> use-only-domain variable) will be used.  For an IMAP folder, Pine uses an
> envelope generated by the IMAP server and thus will use the server's
> hostname.  In any case, pine or imapd just makes the best guess it can with
> the information it has available. 
> 
> The full headers mode just displays the raw message with no parsing or
> formatting. 
> 
> I hope this clears things up a little!
> 
> --DLM
> 
> |\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
> |/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
> 
> On Tue, 7 Dec 1993, Laurie Cuthbert wrote:
> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > On Tue, 7 Dec 1993 14:11:35 +0000 (GMT) Philip Hazel wrote:
> > 
> > >> Aha. I too am running smail, but I am running with Nigel Metheringham's 
> > > bindlib, with maximum header re-writing turned on. Thus I don't get 
> > > messages delivered with no qualification. You can get these mods from 
> > > amp.york.ac.uk if you are interested. 
> > 
> > That sounds like a good idea - it might cure a number of other problems
> > > 
> > > HOWEVER, this morning I munged a message in a folder by hand to remove the 
> > > qualifications, and pine 3.88 still displayed it to me with "cus.cam.ac.uk" 
> > > added to each address. Wait ... dim bell rings ... I have it. It is only 
> > > with "full headers" turned OFF that I get it qualified. If I turn "full 
> > > headers" on, the message is displayed exactly as it is in the folder. 
> > 
> > This is true, except with us it adds theMACHINE NAME when headers are OFF, but I've 
> > discovered only in the inbox - when I open the same message saved in the received folder it 
> > puts on a proper qualifucation - as I go backwards and forwards between the folders it 
> > consistently changes things:
> > 
> > in the INBOX:
> > 
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 14:23 GMT
> > From: Laurie Cuthbert <laurie@osprey>
> > Reply to: Laurie Cuthbert <laurie@elec.qmw.ac.uk>
> > To: laurie@osprey
> > Subject: test
> > 
> > in the received folder:
> > 
> > Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 14:23 GMT
> > From: Laurie Cuthbert <laurie@elec.qmw.ac.uk>
> > To: laurie@elec.qmw.ac.uk
> > Subject: test
> >  
> > Stranger and stranger!
> > 
> > > This does not bother me. What bothered me in 3.07 was that if you replied 
> > > to such a message, it added the machine name. This is no longer the case in 
> > > 3.8x; the domain name gets added when creating the addressee when replying. 
> > > This was the reason I patched 3.07, but didn't need to patch 3.8x.
> > > 
> > That is exactly the problem with us - if you reply from the INBOX it _does_ reply to the machine 
> > name.
> > 
> > I'm copying this to the list again to see if anyone else has seen it.
> > 
> > Thanks anyway
> > 
> > Laurie
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec  7 19:17:38 1993
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From: Nancy McGough <nancym@biostat.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <199312080254.SAA18956@sulu.biostat.washington.edu>
Subject: pine-info archived anywhere?
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu (pine-info)
Date: Tue, 7 Dec 93 18:54:11 PST
Reply-To: Nancy McGough <nancym@u.washington.edu>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]

Are the messages that come across the pine-info alias
archived somewhere?  Do any sites feed them into a local
newsgroup - is that hard to set up?

Thanks,
Nancy



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec  7 20:13:18 1993
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 22:54:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan Mandell <dmandell@saintmarys.edu>
Subject: Smooth ascii upload into pine
To: pine-info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <199312080254.SAA18956@sulu.biostat.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9312072236.A10520-0100000@jade.saintmarys.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Feel free to flame me if this post is too far off the focus of this group.

Pine is ideally suited for most of our clients purposes.  I even find many
have adjusted to the new print command and like the speed of pressing
"y-y" to print. but we have many users who dial into their mail server and
we have not found a simple way to upload text files into pine.  We have
tried a public domain version of kermit, but have found many pc
communication programs like (shareware) procomm do a defective
kermit emulation...and kermit is somewhat user unfriendly.  

We've tried other upload transfer programs (eg. zmodem) with similar
difficulties.  I'd be interested to know if there is a simpler way for
folks to upload ascii files into a pine message. Could a way to do this 
be added directly to pine? Probably too messy! All suggestions welcome!

--
=====================================
Dan Mandell, Computer Services, Saint Mary's College      
Internet: dmandell@saintmarys.edu

"Always promise a little less than you can deliver" : Montaigne




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec  7 20:21:13 1993
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Reply-To: Michael Seibel <mikes@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312071629.E27029-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
Date:       Tue, 7 Dec 1993 19:42:04 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Seibel <mikes@cac.washington.edu>
To: Pine Announcement Distribution <pine-announce@cac.washington.edu>
Subject:    Pine and PC-Pine 3.89 now available
X-Owner:    pine-announce-request@cac.washington.edu
X-To:       Pine Announcement Distribution <pine-announce@cac.washington.edu>

This note is to announce the release of Pine 3.89.  This version is a
maintenance release that fixes several particularly bothersome bugs in
3.88 and earlier.  An overview of the fix list is included below, and an
itemized list can be found in the distribution's release notes.  If this
is the first version run since 3.0x, it's probably a good idea to read the
release notes to see what's changed since 3.07. 

The distribution is available via anonymous ftp to ftp.cac.washington.edu
in the file "mail/pine.tar.Z".  PC-Pine can also be retrieved via the
"Update" option under the Main Menu's "Setup" command. 

As always, many thanks to all who have taken the time to provide valuable
feedback and bug reports.  Thanks for the help!

The Pine Team


SUMMARY OF 3.89 CHANGES

- Pine 3.89 is a primarily a maintenance (bug fix) release, correcting
  several bugs introduced in 3.88 and earlier.

- Fixed: Possibly the last bugs associated with zero length folders
  causing crash with \"Bad msgno in mail_fetchstructure\" with new mail
  arrival and \"Bad msgno in mail_elt\" after failed save.

- Fixed: Bug in \"Goto\" command causing attempted open of garbaged
  folder names and other odd behavior under certain circumstances.

- Fixed: Explicitly set mode of temporary files for sendmail to 0600.

- Fixed: BOOTP gateway, netmask and nameserver recognition (packet-driver
  version).

- Fixed: Display bug showing zero length attachments on re-entering the
  composer.

- Fixed: Export no longer reports success when write fails.

Note to Sequent PTX users:  if you are experiencing performance problems,
 make sure you get the new patch from Sequent to make \"fsync\" work like
 all other Unix \"fsync\"s instead of just doing a \"sync\" instead!

Note to AIX users: There have been reported problems with pine built
 in certain AIX 3.2.X environments.  If you experience problems building
 or running a newly built pine, you might try pine-bin.aix32 available on
 ftp.cac.washington.edu.  Work to find the source of these problems
 continues.

Note to NeXT users: We're aware of, but unable to reproduce, a crash
 in the Folder Index.  If you can reproduce it, please send details to
 pine-bugs@cac.washington.edu.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec  7 21:14:38 1993
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Date: Tue, 7 Dec 1993 23:01:42 -0600 (CST)
From: Matt Simmons <zarthac@cs1.bradley.edu>
Subject: Re: Smooth ascii upload into pine
To: Dan Mandell <dmandell@saintmarys.edu>
Cc: pine-info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312072236.A10520-0100000@jade.saintmarys.edu>
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On Tue, 7 Dec 1993, Dan Mandell wrote:
> Feel free to flame me if this post is too far off the focus of this group.
> Pine is ideally suited for most of our clients purposes.  I even find many
> have adjusted to the new print command and like the speed of pressing
> "y-y" to print. but we have many users who dial into their mail server and
> we have not found a simple way to upload text files into pine.  We have
> tried a public domain version of kermit, but have found many pc
> communication programs like (shareware) procomm do a defective
> kermit emulation...and kermit is somewhat user unfriendly.  
> We've tried other upload transfer programs (eg. zmodem) with similar
> difficulties.  I'd be interested to know if there is a simpler way for
> folks to upload ascii files into a pine message. Could a way to do this 
> be added directly to pine? Probably too messy! All suggestions welcome!
Many pc communication programs like (shareware) procomm do a very good 
ASCII upload...  If the users have error-correcting modems, then ASCII 
uploading will work

Devoted    _n______________________________________________  _________________
Teri      /   \|[]|""  \    |[]|   |[]|   |[]|   |[]|    / || \    |[]|   |[]|
Polo    ,(_____|  |()_()\___|  |___|  |___|  |___|  |___/  ||  \___|  |___|  |
Fan    <_______|__|_(_)_____|__|___|__|___|__|___|__|______||______|__|___|__|
=========\   Walt Disney World Monorail System             ||
LCA  _____\________________________________________________||_________________
  __/ This highway's in perfect shape.  Quick!         Thank god I'm not a
_/ Break it so we can 'fix' it! -- IDOT Motto              F. I. P. =)




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec  7 21:53:40 1993
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	id AAA04251; Wed, 8 Dec 1993 00:36:10 -0500
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 00:35:29 EST
From: Allan Bjorklund <allan@rodan.rs.itd.umich.edu>
Subject: PC-Pine - Which compiler built it?
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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Quick question.

Which compiler(s) were used to build PC-Pine?
Looking at the makefile it appears to be MicroSoft C.  Which version?
Which linker?     Version number?
Are there any compiler specific environment variables set when it is built?

--Allan
  allan@rodan.rs.itd.umich.edu



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 04:39:46 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 04:08:28 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <mramey@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Please put ===END=== at bottom on last page of message.
To: Pine-Info Email List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.87.9312080428.B9146-0100000@stein1.u.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Please put a (reverse-video?) banner at the bottom of the page saying:
                            === END ===
when the last page of the message is displayed.  I know it says "100%"
in the upper right-hand corner, but the eye is reading the main screen,
and that's where I'd like to see the ===END=== signal.  As it is, I usually
hit the space bar an extra time just to get the banner:
                 === Already at end of message ===
Having the ===END=== flag at the bottom of the last screen would be a 
great convenience.  Thanks, -mr



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 07:05:47 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 93 08:50:31 -0600
From: Joel Ness <jness@ua.d.umn.edu>
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Subject: Re: Smooth ascii upload into pine
Message-Id: <Mailstrom.1.04.17879.-2558.jness@ua.d.umn.edu>
In-Reply-To: Your message
 <Pine.3.87.9312072236.A10520-0100000@jade.saintmarys.edu> of Tue, 7 Dec 1993
 22:54:36 -0500 (EST)
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII

Although I suspect it might not help out in a DOS-based communication program
I've found that for Mac and Windows based programs (Telnet, Windows Kermit,
etc.) the slickest way of people transfering text files is just to copy it in
their original word processing program and then paste it into the Pico editor.
There also might be problems with this with very long files, or slow modem
connections, but I find it works quite well for many people.

Going the other way (copying out of Pine to local word processor) is actually
now more difficult than it was when we used elm due to Pine's tightly integrated
screen control. The comm programs I've used don't "capture" any of the message
that's been scrolled through. I miss this, but not enough to keep using elm
(although I will switch to elm occasionally for just this feature). 

>   Pine is ideally suited for most of our clients purposes.
>   I even find many have adjusted to the new print command
>   and like the speed of pressing
>   "y-y" to print. but we have many users who dial into
>   their mail server and we have not found a simple way to
>   upload text files into pine.  We have tried a public
>   domain version of kermit, but have found many pc
>   communication programs like (shareware) procomm do a
>   defective kermit emulation...and kermit is somewhat user
>   unfriendly.  
>   
>   We've tried other upload transfer programs (eg. zmodem)
>   with similar difficulties.  I'd be interested to know if
>   there is a simpler way for folks to upload ascii files
>   into a pine message. Could a way to do this  be added
>   directly to pine? Probably too messy! All suggestions
>   welcome!

_________________________
Joel Ness
UMD Information Services
jness@ua.d.umn.edu
(218) 726-8841



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 07:58:51 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 10:36:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Ron Pool <ron@cce.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Smooth ascii upload into pine
To: pine-info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312072236.A10520-0100000@jade.saintmarys.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9312081022.A24363-b100000@empire.cce.cornell.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 7 Dec 1993, Dan Mandell wrote:
> Pine is ideally suited for most of our clients purposes.  I even find many
> have adjusted to the new print command and like the speed of pressing
> "y-y" to print. but we have many users who dial into their mail server and
> we have not found a simple way to upload text files into pine.  We have
> tried a public domain version of kermit, but have found many pc
> communication programs like (shareware) procomm do a defective
> kermit emulation...and kermit is somewhat user unfriendly.  

We've got local changes to pine to support retrieves and exports (uploads
and downloads) of message text and attachements in pine.  We're still at
3.07 but I'll be moving these changes to 3.89 someday soon.  I could
contribute the code, but it may not be what people want.  It relies on an
external script (a perl script right now) to do start the actual file
transfers.  It's pretty easy to support any transfer protocol you wish (we
support ftp, zmodem and kermit).  Files are transfered to/from /tmp and
pine gets/puts them to /tmp after/before the file transfer.

If U Washington is interested in the code for this then I'll probably
move it to 3.89 more quickly.  It's really pretty easy to do this and is very
useful for people who have access to pine but don't have shell access. 
We've got about 800 users making use of this feature in our locally hacked
pine and they've been doing so for a bit over a year with no major troubles.
--
Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853
Internet: ron@cce.cornell.edu




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 09:26:06 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 09:07:42 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Smooth ascii upload into pine
To: Ron Pool <ron@cce.cornell.edu>
Cc: pine-info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9312081022.A24363-b100000@empire.cce.cornell.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312080903.N26468-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Ron,

We would definitely like to see what you have done here.  I cannot 
guarantee that your changes will become "official" but this is a 
capability that gets requested every once in a while.

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, Ron Pool wrote:

> On Tue, 7 Dec 1993, Dan Mandell wrote:
> > Pine is ideally suited for most of our clients purposes.  I even find many
> > have adjusted to the new print command and like the speed of pressing
> > "y-y" to print. but we have many users who dial into their mail server and
> > we have not found a simple way to upload text files into pine.  We have
> > tried a public domain version of kermit, but have found many pc
> > communication programs like (shareware) procomm do a defective
> > kermit emulation...and kermit is somewhat user unfriendly.  
> 
> We've got local changes to pine to support retrieves and exports (uploads
> and downloads) of message text and attachements in pine.  We're still at
> 3.07 but I'll be moving these changes to 3.89 someday soon.  I could
> contribute the code, but it may not be what people want.  It relies on an
> external script (a perl script right now) to do start the actual file
> transfers.  It's pretty easy to support any transfer protocol you wish (we
> support ftp, zmodem and kermit).  Files are transfered to/from /tmp and
> pine gets/puts them to /tmp after/before the file transfer.
> 
> If U Washington is interested in the code for this then I'll probably
> move it to 3.89 more quickly.  It's really pretty easy to do this and is very
> useful for people who have access to pine but don't have shell access. 
> We've got about 800 users making use of this feature in our locally hacked
> pine and they've been doing so for a bit over a year with no major troubles.
> --
> Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853
> Internet: ron@cce.cornell.edu
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 10:25:55 1993
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 <01H68K2QZEPS0036E7@mc.duke.edu>; Wed, 8 Dec 1993 13:11:03 EST
Date: Wed, 08 Dec 1993 13:09:52 -0500 (EST)
From: James Dryfoos- Postmaster <DMPM@mc.duke.edu>
Subject: Mime attachment and uuencoding
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <01H68L0T9XEO0036E7@mc.duke.edu>
Organization: Duke University Medical Center, Durham NC, USA
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7BIT

Why wont Pine auto decode a uuencoded attachment when saving it to disk?
The header looks like:

--Boundary (ID BioQk0Pg0/wm8LAbV4hLbA)
Content-type: APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM
Content-description: shuttle6.gif 12/7/93 4:02P
Content-transfer-encoding: X-UUENCODE

begin 0 file
M1TE&.#=A903_`O<``%U^J____]X=!.[16QX>'I_&X8JC$,=E73QH.?C;M>"F
MGC*3W\K#-V<J#*L_,*ZGB.)_#1*!A[_8\(&BR42S.N(U1_"`5<N,QF5(8.;L

. . .

  -- Jim



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 11:08:51 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 13:48:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Ron Pool <ron@cce.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Smooth ascii upload into pine
To: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312080903.N26468-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.07.9312081311.A28706-b100000@empire.cce.cornell.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:
> We would definitely like to see what you have done here.  I cannot 
> guarantee that your changes will become "official" but this is a 
> capability that gets requested every once in a while.
> 
> On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, Ron Pool wrote:
> > We've got local changes to pine to support retrieves and exports (uploads
> > and downloads) of message text and attachements in pine.  We're still at
> > 3.07 but I'll be moving these changes to 3.89 someday soon.  I could
> > contribute the code, but it may not be what people want.  It relies on an
> > external script (a perl script right now) to do start the actual file
> > transfers.  It's pretty easy to support any transfer protocol you wish (we
> > support ftp, zmodem and kermit).  Files are transfered to/from /tmp and
> > pine gets/puts them to /tmp after/before the file transfer.

OK, I'll look at moving our local changes to 3.89 today.  I'll send the
diffs to U Washington when I'm satisfied they're OK -- they're pretty
minimal so this shouldn't tak long unless the code for 3.89 has changed a
lot from 3.07.  Don't expect the changes today or this week, I'm just 
going to install 3.89 (3.07 in production, 3.88 in test here now) and look
at the 3.89 code in the areas I changed the 3.07 code before.
--
Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853
Internet: ron@cce.cornell.edu




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 11:31:46 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 11:11:19 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Mime attachment and uuencoding
To: James Dryfoos- Postmaster <DMPM@mc.duke.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <01H68L0T9XEO0036E7@mc.duke.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312081106.e26468-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Jim,

X-UUENCODE is a private extension to the MIME specification that we are 
not currently supporting.  We will be implementing mailcap support in 
Pine in the near future, but it is unclear if even that will provide 
access to private encoding methods, like X-UUENCODE.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, James Dryfoos- Postmaster wrote:

> Why wont Pine auto decode a uuencoded attachment when saving it to disk?
> The header looks like:
> 
> --Boundary (ID BioQk0Pg0/wm8LAbV4hLbA)
> Content-type: APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM
> Content-description: shuttle6.gif 12/7/93 4:02P
> Content-transfer-encoding: X-UUENCODE
> 
> begin 0 file
> M1TE&.#=A903_`O<``%U^J____]X=!.[16QX>'I_&X8JC$,=E73QH.?C;M>"F
> MGC*3W\K#-V<J#*L_,*ZGB.)_#1*!A[_8\(&BR42S.N(U1_"`5<N,QF5(8.;L
> 
> . . .
> 
>   -- Jim
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 11:33:22 1993
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	(5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.29 ) id AA16468; Wed, 8 Dec 93 11:10:06 -0800
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 11:10:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Mime attachment and uuencoding
To: James Dryfoos- Postmaster <DMPM@mc.duke.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <01H68L0T9XEO0036E7@mc.duke.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312081119.J19676-0100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Jim,
As you noticed, Pine's only *internal* attachment support is for MIME 
encoding.  That's not likely to change, but an upcoming version of
Pine will have a "pipe to Unix command" command, so handling uuencoded
attachments will then be much more convenient.

The X-UUENCODE C.T.E. used by whatever mailer sent this msg is actually a
very bad idea; it would be better to make the uuencode case look like a 
regular 822 non-MIME message rather than to "mix metaphors" like this. 
(See comp.mail.mime for an interminable debate on this subject.)

-teg

On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, James Dryfoos- Postmaster wrote:

> Why wont Pine auto decode a uuencoded attachment when saving it to disk?
> The header looks like:
> 
> --Boundary (ID BioQk0Pg0/wm8LAbV4hLbA)
> Content-type: APPLICATION/OCTET-STREAM
> Content-description: shuttle6.gif 12/7/93 4:02P
> Content-transfer-encoding: X-UUENCODE
> 
> begin 0 file
> M1TE&.#=A903_`O<``%U^J____]X=!.[16QX>'I_&X8JC$,=E73QH.?C;M>"F
> MGC*3W\K#-V<J#*L_,*ZGB.)_#1*!A[_8\(&BR42S.N(U1_"`5<N,QF5(8.;L
> 
> . . .
> 
>   -- Jim
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 12:29:16 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 12:07:09 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: PC-PINE.README
To: Elmar Kurgpold <ekurgpol@Law.USC.EDU>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9311291144.y1880-0100000@hal>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312081247.n26468-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


OOPS, thanks for the report!

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 29 Nov 1993, Elmar Kurgpold wrote:

> On ftp.cac.washington.edu, The readme file listed as a link from
> /mail/PC-PINE/README to /mail/PC-PINE/PC-Pine.README does not seem to exist. 
> I heard about the directory-shuffling, so I thought I'd let you know 
> y'all missed something;-)
> 
> -------------------------------------         ,-,,-,   __
> | Elmar Kurgpold                    |  ______/     /_,'  |
> | Network Administrator             |  \________________/
> | University of Southern California |       |<) (> |
> | The Law Center                    |    (  | oo   |
> | ekurgpol@Law.USC.EDU              |     ) `|  |--'
> | (213)740-2571 FAX: (213)740-5502  |    (___^^^^|
> -------------------------------------       (____'
> 
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 12:42:29 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 12:29:04 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Pine news index and time zones?
To: David Langford <langfod@CSOS.ORST.EDU>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <199311240409.UAA18063@CSOS.ORST.EDU>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312081202.q26468-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


David,

Hmmm...  I suppose there are arguements either way, but since the Date: 
header is the date the message was sent, it seems to me better to use the 
sender's timezone.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 23 Nov 1993, David Langford wrote:

> 
> Is there any reason that the pine news indexer doesnt convert the
> date in news articles to local time zones?
> 
> Is it a configuration problem or can pine not deal with time zones?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> -David Langford
> 
> -- 
>     +---------------------------------------------------------------+
>     |     David Langford - Corvallis, OR   langfod@csos.orst.edu    |
>     |              Director of Hardware/Software Affairs            |
>     |  Computer Science OutReach Services, Oregon State University  | 
>     +---------------------------------------------------------------+


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 13:46:55 1993
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  (InterLock SMTP Gateway 1.1 for <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>);
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 16:26:53 -0500 (EST)
From: Jason Cross <jcross01%majorca@earth.ae.eds.com>
Subject: News
To: pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312081622.I6828-0100000@majorca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I'm sure this has been covered exhaustively, but since I'm new I'll fire
away.  I have news mounted on my machine (/usr/spool/news) and in .pinerc 
I have the following:

  news-collections=News *[]

and I can't read news.  I'm assuming the syntax is goofed up.   Any help
will be appreciated.

ciao,
Jason Cross 
EDS                
Troy, Mi.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 14:27:25 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 14:05:01 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: News
To: Jason Cross <jcross01%majorca@earth.ae.eds.com>
Cc: pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312081622.I6828-0100000@majorca>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312081351.w26468-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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Jason,

Do you also have /usr/lib/news/active and ~/.newsrc files?

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, Jason Cross wrote:

> I'm sure this has been covered exhaustively, but since I'm new I'll fire
> away.  I have news mounted on my machine (/usr/spool/news) and in .pinerc 
> I have the following:
> 
>   news-collections=News *[]
> 
> and I can't read news.  I'm assuming the syntax is goofed up.   Any help
> will be appreciated.
> 
> ciao,
> Jason Cross 
> EDS                
> Troy, Mi.
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 14:27:44 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 14:08:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Subject: re: News
To: Jason Cross <jcross01%majorca@earth.ae.eds.com>
Cc: pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312081622.I6828-0100000@majorca>
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Is the file /usr/lib/news/active also online?  If not, you need to have
/usr/lib/news mounted on your machine too.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 14:41:31 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 09:23:44 +1100 (EST)
From: Andy Linton <asjl@aarnet.edu.au>
Reply-To: Andy Linton <asjl@aarnet.edu.au>
Subject: 
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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I make reasonably heavy use of 'Incoming Message Folders' via a filtering 
program. Each morning when I come in I have to go through each one to 
check if new mail has been deposited.

Would it be possible in some future version - Pine 19.0 will do - to have 
a flag e.g. an '*' beside any incoming folder that has 'new' mail in it?

andy
--
Andy Linton				A.Linton@aarnet.edu.au
Network Engineer	 		phone:	+61 6 249 2874
AARNet					fax:	+61 6 249 1369
--





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 14:56:03 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 14:41:21 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: pine-info archived anywhere?
To: Nancy McGough <nancym@u.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <199312080254.SAA18956@sulu.biostat.washington.edu>
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Nancy,

We do keep an archive of pine-info, but it is not currently available to 
the public.  If there is enough demand, we may look into setting up 
something in the future.

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 7 Dec 1993, Nancy McGough wrote:

> Are the messages that come across the pine-info alias
> archived somewhere?  Do any sites feed them into a local
> newsgroup - is that hard to set up?
> 
> Thanks,
> Nancy
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 15:07:32 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 14:48:48 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: Andy Linton <asjl@aarnet.edu.au>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312090932.A2049-0100000@cruskit.aarnet.edu.au>
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Andy,

Yes, we do plan to provide more complete support for Incoming folders in 
the future.  We will probably have an indicator, as well as notification 
like you get for the INBOX.

Thanks for the suggestion!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Andy Linton wrote:

> I make reasonably heavy use of 'Incoming Message Folders' via a filtering 
> program. Each morning when I come in I have to go through each one to 
> check if new mail has been deposited.
> 
> Would it be possible in some future version - Pine 19.0 will do - to have 
> a flag e.g. an '*' beside any incoming folder that has 'new' mail in it?
> 
> andy
> --
> Andy Linton				A.Linton@aarnet.edu.au
> Network Engineer	 		phone:	+61 6 249 2874
> AARNet					fax:	+61 6 249 1369
> --
> 
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 15:15:36 1993
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Cc: pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
To: "Pine mailer discussions group (pine-infoEcac.washington.edu)" <pine-info@SU-KOM.SU.se>




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 15:34:18 1993
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          8 Dec 93 23:15 GMT
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 23:15:29 +000 (GMT)
From: Ben Knox <ben@dircon.co.uk>
Subject: New release patches
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312082300.A7158-0100000@tdc.dircon.co.uk>
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Is there any chance that patches could be provided for upgrading from one 
PINE release to another? 

This would make it quicker for sites to install the updated versions, and
probably use up less bandwidth on your FTP system! 

Regards, Ben

==================================================================
Ben Knox		ben@dircon.co.uk      ...!pipex!dircon!ben




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 23:11:54 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 22:49:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: Andy Linton <asjl@aarnet.edu.au>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312081440.A26468-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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Andy,
Just to set expectations:  Some indication of which incoming-msg folders
have unseen mail is definitely a high priority.  And TAB will then skip
the folders that don't have unread mail.  How Pine will find this out
without actually opening a folder is an issue that still needs to get 
nailed down in the new IMAP spec, but this will happen pretty soon.

However, new mail notification for folders other than INBOX is more
problematic, both for performance/resource reasons and for U.I. design
reasons.  (For one thing, an IMAP stream would have to be kept open for
each of these folders, and it isn't obvious how to clearly communicate to
the user which folder has the new mail, etc, etc.) So this part will take
a lot more consideration, and is unlikely to happen "soon"... 

-teg

On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:

> Andy,
> Yes, we do plan to provide more complete support for Incoming folders in 
> the future.  We will probably have an indicator, as well as notification 
> like you get for the INBOX.
> 
> Thanks for the suggestion!
> 
> --DLM
> 
> |\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
> |/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
> 
> On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Andy Linton wrote:
> 
> > I make reasonably heavy use of 'Incoming Message Folders' via a filtering 
> > program. Each morning when I come in I have to go through each one to 
> > check if new mail has been deposited.
> > 
> > Would it be possible in some future version - Pine 19.0 will do - to have 
> > a flag e.g. an '*' beside any incoming folder that has 'new' mail in it?
> > 
> > andy
> > --
> > Andy Linton				A.Linton@aarnet.edu.au
> > Network Engineer	 		phone:	+61 6 249 2874
> > AARNet					fax:	+61 6 249 1369
> > --
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec  8 23:26:02 1993
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Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1993 23:12:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: More on use of the "Y" key for printing.
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.90.9312082315.D28568-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Folks,
Recently there was some discussion on why using the "Y" key for
printing was unfortunate, due to the confusion with (y/n) prompts.

This is a request for specific feedback on what, if anything, we should do
about it.  Please send email to <gray@cac.washington.edu> indicating which
of the approaches listed below you prefer, and I'll summarize.

Please note that Pine design is not a democratic process... we want it to
be as useful as possible to as many people as possible, but pleasing our
UW constituency (and patrons!) takes precedence over needs elsewhere.  So,
we make no promise to abide by majority rule, but we wouldn't ask if we
didn't care what you think. 

THE PROBLEM

Recall that last summer we changed the Pine print command from L to Y.
This was done to free-up L for List Folders.

What we didn't think about at the time was that Y is also the most common
response to many (y/n) prompts in Pine (e.g. really expunge?), and that it
is quite possible that one can inadvertently end up, by typing ahead,
trying to print something you didn't intend to. 

Although we are extremely reluctant to make another keybinding change,
several of you have let us know that the current behavior is a problem.

OPTIONS

I can only think of a few viable options:

  1. Do nothing.  "Just get used to it..." :)

  2. Change "Y Print" to "K Print" --or maybe "K KillTree" :)

     -K is the only "regular" character that is available, and even
      it is used for KBlock on the main menu.

  3. Change "Y Print" to "% Print"

    -% is only semi-mnemonic, (but better than K in that regard!)
     It is also shifted (a bug or a feature?)
     It saves K in case we discover a more important need later.

  4. Have a feature-list option to change from "Y" to "%"

    -I hate to see more config-based variations in user-interface behavior,
     and I hate to chew up the last regular character (K) with an option
     many folks may not use... (hence, the idea of using %.)  But, hey,
     we are already well into "you can't please everyone" territory...

We're not too interested in responses of the form "just put it back the
way it was in 3.07" but if you believe you have a better solution than
those listed, please let us know that, in addition to which of the above
is least objectionable to you. 

Note that options 2 and 3 will require a *lot* of support to get 
considered, since there *are* folks who like the current Y behavior.

Your vote?  (Or even better: your *ranking* of the options.)

Thanks!

-teg




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 00:31:55 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 02:14:54 -0600 (CST)
From: Matt Simmons <zarthac@cs1.bradley.edu>
Subject: Problem compiling 3.89 on a sun
To: Pine Mailing List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312090210.A21095-0200000@cs1.bradley.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/MIXED; BOUNDARY="1430303733-1042826428-755424894:#21095"

  This message is in MIME format.  The first part should be readable text,
  while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.

--1430303733-1042826428-755424894:#21095
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I edit out the debug flags as usual, and when I try to compile, i get the 
attached error messages.... What am I doing wrong?

Devoted    _n______________________________________________  _________________
Teri      /   \|[]|""  \    |[]|   |[]|   |[]|   |[]|    / || \    |[]|   |[]|
Polo    ,(_____|  |()_()\___|  |___|  |___|  |___|  |___/  ||  \___|  |___|  |
Fan    <_______|__|_(_)_____|__|___|__|___|__|___|__|______||______|__|___|__|
=========\   Walt Disney World Monorail System             ||
LCA  _____\________________________________________________||_________________
  __/ This highway's in perfect shape.  Quick!         Thank god I'm not a
_/ Break it so we can 'fix' it! -- IDOT Motto              F. I. P. =)


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YXR0YWNoLmMNCg==
--1430303733-1042826428-755424894:#21095--


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 02:00:17 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 09:47:22 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: More on use of the "Y" key for printing.
To: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.90.9312082315.D28568-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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> Recently there was some discussion on why using the "Y" key for
> printing was unfortunate, due to the confusion with (y/n) prompts.

Initiated by me, so I guess I'd better reply to this :-)

>   1. Do nothing.  "Just get used to it..." :)
>   2. Change "Y Print" to "K Print" --or maybe "K KillTree" :)
>   3. Change "Y Print" to "% Print"
>   4. Have a feature-list option to change from "Y" to "%"

My preferences, in order, are:

    3     I like the idea of a shifted character for a rare operation.
     
    2     I'm not really keen on using up "K", though I prefer change to
            no change. 
             
    1   ) By a small margin, I think I prefer no change to making just
    4   )   ONE key configurable.


Regards,
Philip
                                                        
--
Philip Hazel                   University Computing Service,
ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk             New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
P.Hazel@ucs.cam.ac.uk          England.  Phone: +44 223 334714



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 02:09:14 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 09:48:28 GMT
From: Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Smooth ascii upload into pine
To: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: Ron Pool <ron@cce.cornell.edu>, pine-info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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We would definitely be interested in this. 
We run PINE in a restricted shell for undergrads (restricted so that the 
system retains some capacity to do the email for which it is intended:-)) 
and have a need for upload and download; a solution that does not require 
installing a further package that might provide a shell opener would be 
very helpful. 


On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:

> 
> Ron,
> 
> We would definitely like to see what you have done here.  I cannot 
> guarantee that your changes will become "official" but this is a 
> capability that gets requested every once in a while.
> 
> --DLM
> 
> |\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
> |/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
> University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
> 4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA
> 
> On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, Ron Pool wrote:
> 
> > On Tue, 7 Dec 1993, Dan Mandell wrote:
> > > Pine is ideally suited for most of our clients purposes.  I even find many
> > > have adjusted to the new print command and like the speed of pressing
> > > "y-y" to print. but we have many users who dial into their mail server and
> > > we have not found a simple way to upload text files into pine.  We have
> > > tried a public domain version of kermit, but have found many pc
> > > communication programs like (shareware) procomm do a defective
> > > kermit emulation...and kermit is somewhat user unfriendly.  
> > 
> > We've got local changes to pine to support retrieves and exports (uploads
> > and downloads) of message text and attachements in pine.  We're still at
> > 3.07 but I'll be moving these changes to 3.89 someday soon.  I could
> > contribute the code, but it may not be what people want.  It relies on an
> > external script (a perl script right now) to do start the actual file
> > transfers.  It's pretty easy to support any transfer protocol you wish (we
> > support ftp, zmodem and kermit).  Files are transfered to/from /tmp and
> > pine gets/puts them to /tmp after/before the file transfer.
> > 
> > If U Washington is interested in the code for this then I'll probably
> > move it to 3.89 more quickly.  It's really pretty easy to do this and is very
> > useful for people who have access to pine but don't have shell access. 
> > We've got about 800 users making use of this feature in our locally hacked
> > pine and they've been doing so for a bit over a year with no major troubles.
> > --
> > Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853
> > Internet: ron@cce.cornell.edu
> > 
> > 
> 
> 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy                        Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development    Direct line:        +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site                   Email:Barry.Landy@ucs.cam.ac.uk
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 02:15:10 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 09:41:03 +0000 (GMT)
From: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Mime attachment and uuencoding
To: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: James Dryfoos- Postmaster <DMPM@mc.duke.edu>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312081119.J19676-0100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
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On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

> As you noticed, Pine's only *internal* attachment support is for MIME 
> encoding.  That's not likely to change, but an upcoming version of
> Pine will have a "pipe to Unix command" command, so handling uuencoded
> attachments will then be much more convenient.

This comment has prompted me to propose yet another item for your wish 
list. Sorry!

One of the Unix machines we run Pine on is a "mail only" machine. Users who
log in to it are put into a custom-built menu system which allows them only
certain functions. One of the functions is to run Pine. They are *not*
allowed to run a regular shell.

As most of these users are undergraduates, we can't trust them not to push 
at the restrictions, and we have found it necessary to patch Pine in order 
to inhibit those functions that would let them escape into a normal shell.
At present, the patch is pretty simple. It just causes Pine to ignore 
certain settings in the user's .pinerc file. These are:

editor, image-viewer, printer, personal-print-command, and (for good
measure) standard-printer.

Without this inhibition, users can use these features to cause normal
shells to be run.

If you implement a "pipe to Unix command" command, then we will have to 
patch that one out as well.

What would be very nice would be a compile time option on Pine that cuts 
out all features that could enable the user to escape into another program.

Regards,
Philip

--
Philip Hazel                   University Computing Service,
ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk             New Museums Site, Cambridge CB2 3QG,
P.Hazel@ucs.cam.ac.uk          England.  Phone: +44 223 334714



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 02:58:10 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 10:39:23 +0000 (GMT)
From: Ian Dunkin <imd1707@ggr.co.uk>
Subject: Re: More on use of the "Y" key for printing.
To: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.90.9312082315.D28568-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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This one would have our vote:
 
>   3. Change "Y Print" to "% Print"
 
But let's not miss the root cause of much of the confusion.  People
hitting Y (meaning Yes) in anticipatory typeahead, are answering a
question they expected Pine to ask but which it did not.  Most often this
is because they intended the key beforehand to be a command, but Pine did
not accept it.  For us, the most common case is use of the X (purge)
command when not in Index mode: 
 
  User  having  read  and deleted a mail, wants to purge deleted mail,
  and hits X (and then Y, anticipating the Pine  confirmation  query).

  Pine  does not accept X in this context (it only works in INDEX mode
  for some reason), and so the expected query never  comes.   

  The typed-ahead Y is taken as Print. 
      
I'm sure there are other similar scenarios.  Better than just changing Y
not to mean print, is surely to get rid of such
user-expects-something/Pine-does-not-allow-it cases (which I can tell from
the nice `feel' of Pine that you try to do anyway).  In the above example:
make X work in READ mode! 
 
No?
   
       I.


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 03:45:40 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 11:11:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: "D.K.Brownlee" <D.K.Brownlee@city.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: More on use of the "Y" key for printing.
To: Pine-Info Maillist <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.90.9312082315.D28568-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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	Can I put forward another alternative - use a non-shifted puntuation
	key for print, rather than '%'.

	The choice is limited because of different keyboards, and is no more
	mnemonic than 'Y', but at least it is not 'Y'!

	If you replace the % with one of the below then I would definitely
	vote for it, otherwise my money is on 'K' :)

	On a standard PC keyboard the unshifted punctuation keys are

	    ]	/   -   .   ;

	And also the following, but rejected for reasons listed

	    =	Is shifted on a DEC keyboard
	    \	Is shifted on a DEC keyboard
	    [	Is shifted on a DEC keyboard
	    ,	Now is that a comma or a quote?
	    #	Not on my sun keyboard
	    `	No way - "Which quote is it again?"
	    '	No way - "Which quote is it again?"

       D.K.Brownlee@city.ac.uk. Network Analyst. Postmaster. Hostmaster.
         <_.-^-._>  Telephone: (+44) 71 477 8000 Ext:3757.  <_.-^-._>
 Snailmail:E308, City University, Northampton Sq, Islington, London ECIV 0HB.




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 03:47:10 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 11:25:06 GMT
From: Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re-SEND
To: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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Some time ago there were suggestions for work-arounds for the missing 
"RESEND" feature (ie the ability to correct a message for a fatal problem 
like a bad addressee, and then to send it again). Now that PINE3.89 has 
mended the fatal bug that made my workaround crash pine, I think that the 
following is the simplest and easiest to use:-

Export the message to MAIL\POSTPONE (PC-PINE) or mail/postponed-mail
(or wherever your postponed mail actually gets to), and then do Compose.
As if by magic your message re-appears as if it had been postponed. 
The only catch I have found is that the Fcc field is not preserved, so 
that needs to be reinserted manually (if required). 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy                        Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development    Direct line:        +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site                   Email:Barry.Landy@ucs.cam.ac.uk
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 03:50:45 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 03:26:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Subject: re: Problem compiling 3.89 on a sun
To: Matt Simmons <zarthac@cs1.bradley.edu>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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It looks as if you may have inadvertantly edited out the -Dconst= in the
CFLAGS in the c-client makefile.sun.

Please check this.  The CFLAGS should be: -g -Dconst=



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 04:00:40 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 11:44:46 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Brudenell <pmb1@tower.york.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Mike Brudenell <pmb1@tower.york.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: More on use of the "Y" key for printing.
To: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312091014.A6380-0100000@uk0x04>
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I got confused for ages having enabled the "expunge without confirm" 
feature-level feature (or whatever the name actually is!).  I had trouble 
getting used to the fact that the X expunge command no longer asked for 
confirmation (but I was HAPPY that Pine no longer asked me for 
confirmation when quitting, which was why I enabled the feature!)

Consequently I was always typing X Y and having the Y taken as Print!

I also have problems because some commands in the Index screen aren't 
available, even though I'd have thought they shoud be.  For example, if 
"L" takes you from Index to Folder List, why can't "A" take me to the 
Address Book?

						Mike B-)

On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Ian Dunkin wrote:

> This one would have our vote:
>  
> >   3. Change "Y Print" to "% Print"
>  
> But let's not miss the root cause of much of the confusion.  People
> hitting Y (meaning Yes) in anticipatory typeahead, are answering a
> question they expected Pine to ask but which it did not.  Most often this
> is because they intended the key beforehand to be a command, but Pine did
> not accept it.  For us, the most common case is use of the X (purge)
> command when not in Index mode: 
>  
>   User  having  read  and deleted a mail, wants to purge deleted mail,
>   and hits X (and then Y, anticipating the Pine  confirmation  query).
> 
>   Pine  does not accept X in this context (it only works in INDEX mode
>   for some reason), and so the expected query never  comes.   
> 
>   The typed-ahead Y is taken as Print. 
>       
> I'm sure there are other similar scenarios.  Better than just changing Y
> not to mean print, is surely to get rid of such
> user-expects-something/Pine-does-not-allow-it cases (which I can tell from
> the nice `feel' of Pine that you try to do anyway).  In the above example:
> make X work in READ mode! 
>  
> No?
>    
>        I.
> 






From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 04:33:36 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 07:15:01 -0500 (EST)
From: "Michael A. Crowley" <mcrowley@mhc.mtholyoke.edu>
Subject: Re: More on use of the "Y" key for printing.
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312091014.A6380-0100000@uk0x04>
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Please DO NOT send your vote to the entire list.  Send it back
to Terry (gray@cac.washington.edu).

Mike




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 06:10:52 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 08:46:18 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan Schlitt <dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Subject: Re: Mime attachment and uuencoding
To: Philip Hazel <ph10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>,
        James Dryfoos- Postmaster <DMPM@mc.duke.edu>,
        pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312090919.E22623-0100000@bootes.cus.cam.ac.uk>
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A compile time option to disable possible escapes to a shell sounds like a
very good idea.  It will encourage a design that makes it easy to disable
them and it will help make sure they are really disabled.

/dan

Dan Schlitt                           School of Engineering Computer Systems
dan@ee-mail.engr.ccny.cuny.edu        City College of New York
(212)650-6760                         New York, NY 10031




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 06:47:03 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 09:15:45 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Ribeiro <pribeiro@hermes.acs.ryerson.ca>
Subject: Re: Mime attachment and uuencoding
To: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Philip Hazel wrote:
> What would be very nice would be a compile time option on Pine that cuts 
> out all features that could enable the user to escape into another program.

Two other compile time options I would like to see are for news and update
support. - the first I'd exclude to cut the size of the binary, the second
I'd cut to save our link :-)
/P


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 09:14:13 1993
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From: Henry Kuo <hkuo@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Re: More on use of the "Y" key for printing.
To: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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Would that be ok to use ^L or ^Y?  4th option!

One more thing I would like to discuss here about the "Where is."  In 
some case, eg in pico, ^W is for searching, but on Index menu, W is for 
searching.  Would that be good to make them same?

            `~~~~~~
             @(0-0)
---------oOO----^---OOo-------

^.^ Henry.........
------------------------------
                






On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

> Folks,
> Recently there was some discussion on why using the "Y" key for
> printing was unfortunate, due to the confusion with (y/n) prompts.
> 
> This is a request for specific feedback on what, if anything, we should do
> about it.  Please send email to <gray@cac.washington.edu> indicating which
> of the approaches listed below you prefer, and I'll summarize.
> 
> Please note that Pine design is not a democratic process... we want it to
> be as useful as possible to as many people as possible, but pleasing our
> UW constituency (and patrons!) takes precedence over needs elsewhere.  So,
> we make no promise to abide by majority rule, but we wouldn't ask if we
> didn't care what you think. 
> 
> THE PROBLEM
> 
> Recall that last summer we changed the Pine print command from L to Y.
> This was done to free-up L for List Folders.
> 
> What we didn't think about at the time was that Y is also the most common
> response to many (y/n) prompts in Pine (e.g. really expunge?), and that it
> is quite possible that one can inadvertently end up, by typing ahead,
> trying to print something you didn't intend to. 
> 
> Although we are extremely reluctant to make another keybinding change,
> several of you have let us know that the current behavior is a problem.
> 
> OPTIONS
> 
> I can only think of a few viable options:
> 
>   1. Do nothing.  "Just get used to it..." :)
> 
>   2. Change "Y Print" to "K Print" --or maybe "K KillTree" :)
> 
>      -K is the only "regular" character that is available, and even
>       it is used for KBlock on the main menu.
> 
>   3. Change "Y Print" to "% Print"
> 
>     -% is only semi-mnemonic, (but better than K in that regard!)
>      It is also shifted (a bug or a feature?)
>      It saves K in case we discover a more important need later.
> 
>   4. Have a feature-list option to change from "Y" to "%"
> 
>     -I hate to see more config-based variations in user-interface behavior,
>      and I hate to chew up the last regular character (K) with an option
>      many folks may not use... (hence, the idea of using %.)  But, hey,
>      we are already well into "you can't please everyone" territory...
> 
> We're not too interested in responses of the form "just put it back the
> way it was in 3.07" but if you believe you have a better solution than
> those listed, please let us know that, in addition to which of the above
> is least objectionable to you. 
> 
> Note that options 2 and 3 will require a *lot* of support to get 
> considered, since there *are* folks who like the current Y behavior.
> 
> Your vote?  (Or even better: your *ranking* of the options.)
> 
> Thanks!
> 
> -teg
> 
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 09:26:35 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 09:10:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Henry Kuo <hkuo@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Subject: Newsgroups list
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <199312091708.AA28988@headcrash.berkeley.edu>
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> Hi!
> 
> When I read newsgroups and tried to change to another group, is there a 
> way to come back to "news list" instead of "Folder-collection list?"
> 
> 
> =Henry=
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 11:18:10 1993
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Subject: Re: More on use of the "Y" key for printing.
From: Kari Sutela <sutela@utu.fi>
To: D.K.Brownlee@city.ac.uk (D.K.Brownlee)
Date: 	Thu, 9 Dec 1993 21:00:26 +0200
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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> 	On a standard PC keyboard the unshifted punctuation keys are
> 
> 	    ]	/   -   .   ;

In Finland only - and . are unshifted.  Actually, ] requires using the
horrible "Alt Gr" key (unfortunately, so does @ --- the PC keyboard
layout is terrible).  I'd support using % for printing; actually, I'd
support anything that makes printing as hard as possible :-)

/KS


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 12:08:57 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 13:36:19 -0600 (CST)
From: Matt Simmons <zarthac@cs1.bradley.edu>
Subject: re: Problem compiling 3.89 on a sun
To: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Cc: Pine Mailing List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <MailManager.755436379.252.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>
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On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:
> It looks as if you may have inadvertantly edited out the -Dconst= in the
> CFLAGS in the c-client makefile.sun.
> Please check this.  The CFLAGS should be: -g -Dconst=
Yes, that's what I did... thanks...

Devoted    _n______________________________________________  _________________
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From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 13:17:32 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 12:58:36 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <thorpej@cs.orst.edu>
Subject: Re: More on use of the "Y" key for printing.
To: Henry Kuo <hkuo@ocf.Berkeley.EDU>
Cc: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312090852.A28948-0100000@headcrash.berkeley.edu>
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On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Henry Kuo wrote:

> Would that be ok to use ^L or ^Y?  4th option!

^Y is a paging key, and ^L redraws the screen...

> 
> One more thing I would like to discuss here about the "Where is."  In 
> some case, eg in pico, ^W is for searching, but on Index menu, W is for 
> searching.  Would that be good to make them same?
> 
>             `~~~~~~
>              @(0-0)
> ---------oOO----^---OOo-------
> 
> ^.^ Henry.........
> ------------------------------
>                 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
> 
> > Folks,
> > Recently there was some discussion on why using the "Y" key for
> > printing was unfortunate, due to the confusion with (y/n) prompts.
> > 
> > This is a request for specific feedback on what, if anything, we should do
> > about it.  Please send email to <gray@cac.washington.edu> indicating which
> > of the approaches listed below you prefer, and I'll summarize.
> > 
> > Please note that Pine design is not a democratic process... we want it to
> > be as useful as possible to as many people as possible, but pleasing our
> > UW constituency (and patrons!) takes precedence over needs elsewhere.  So,
> > we make no promise to abide by majority rule, but we wouldn't ask if we
> > didn't care what you think. 
> > 
> > THE PROBLEM
> > 
> > Recall that last summer we changed the Pine print command from L to Y.
> > This was done to free-up L for List Folders.
> > 
> > What we didn't think about at the time was that Y is also the most common
> > response to many (y/n) prompts in Pine (e.g. really expunge?), and that it
> > is quite possible that one can inadvertently end up, by typing ahead,
> > trying to print something you didn't intend to. 
> > 
> > Although we are extremely reluctant to make another keybinding change,
> > several of you have let us know that the current behavior is a problem.
> > 
> > OPTIONS
> > 
> > I can only think of a few viable options:
> > 
> >   1. Do nothing.  "Just get used to it..." :)
> > 
> >   2. Change "Y Print" to "K Print" --or maybe "K KillTree" :)
> > 
> >      -K is the only "regular" character that is available, and even
> >       it is used for KBlock on the main menu.
> > 
> >   3. Change "Y Print" to "% Print"
> > 
> >     -% is only semi-mnemonic, (but better than K in that regard!)
> >      It is also shifted (a bug or a feature?)
> >      It saves K in case we discover a more important need later.
> > 
> >   4. Have a feature-list option to change from "Y" to "%"
> > 
> >     -I hate to see more config-based variations in user-interface behavior,
> >      and I hate to chew up the last regular character (K) with an option
> >      many folks may not use... (hence, the idea of using %.)  But, hey,
> >      we are already well into "you can't please everyone" territory...
> > 
> > We're not too interested in responses of the form "just put it back the
> > way it was in 3.07" but if you believe you have a better solution than
> > those listed, please let us know that, in addition to which of the above
> > is least objectionable to you. 
> > 
> > Note that options 2 and 3 will require a *lot* of support to get 
> > considered, since there *are* folks who like the current Y behavior.
> > 
> > Your vote?  (Or even better: your *ranking* of the options.)
> > 
> > Thanks!
> > 
> > -teg
> > 
> > 
> > 
> 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason R. Thorpe          |     'All standard...'     |    434 Weatherford Hall
OSU Computer Science     |    thorpej@cs.orst.edu    |     Corvallis, OR 97331
Support Staff            |  '...disclaimers apply.'  |          (503) 737-9533



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 15:32:17 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 14:14:36 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: New release patches
To: Ben Knox <ben@dircon.co.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312082300.A7158-0100000@tdc.dircon.co.uk>
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Ben,

We have serious reservations about releasing major new versions and
mission-critical maintenance releases as patches.  For one thing, it would
take a fairly large effort to construct and test all the patches.  Another
problem is that a significant portion of our user community may not recognize
failures in the patch process, thereby causing an increase in
installation-related bug reports.  That said, we are considering the
distribution of patches for OS-dependent and selected interim fixes. 

Thanks for the suggestion!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, Ben Knox wrote:

> Is there any chance that patches could be provided for upgrading from one 
> PINE release to another? 
> 
> This would make it quicker for sites to install the updated versions, and
> probably use up less bandwidth on your FTP system! 
> 
> Regards, Ben
> 
> ==================================================================
> Ben Knox		ben@dircon.co.uk      ...!pipex!dircon!ben
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 17:47:18 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 17:11:37 -0800 (PST)
From: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Subject: Problem compiling pine3.89 on ultrix 4.2
To: Pine Info Group <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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Hi, Pine Group:
We are running ultrix 4.2 on micro vax 3100.  When I use "build ult" to
build the pine3.89, I got the following error:
   :
   :
  cc -g3 -O2 -Olimit 800 -Dconst= -c misc.c
  cc -g3 -O2 -Olimit 800 -Dconst= -DRSH=\"rsh\" -DRSHPATH=\"/usr/ucb/rsh\"
-c os_c
  cc: warning: -g disables -O
  cc -g3 -O2 -Olimit 800 -Dconst= -c sm_unix.c
  cc: warning: -g disables -O
  rm -f c-client.a
  ar rc c-client.a mail.o bezerk.o tenex2.o mbox.o mh.o imap2.o news.o
nntpclient.o
  ranlib c-client.a
  echo -g3 -O2 -Olimit 800 -Dconst= > CFLAGS
  echo > LDFLAGS
  cc -g3 -O2 -Olimit 800 -Dconst= -o mtest mtest.o c-client.a
  cc: warning: -g disables -O
  ld:800: cannot open
  *** Error code 4

  Stop.

Has anybody have the same problem?  Could anybody tell me how to fix it? 
Any help would be greatly appreciated !!  



Sharon Deng
Assistant Director			Internet: deng@ultrix.uor.edu
Academic Computer Center			  deng@jccvms.uor.edu
University of Redlands			   Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 18:39:46 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 18:08:52 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: Problem compiling pine3.89 on ultrix 4.2
To: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Cc: Pine Info Group <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9312091737.B14165-b100000@ultrix.uor.edu>
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Sharon -

    Try ``build vul'' instead of ``build ult''.  vul is the VAX Ultrix port.

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec  9 19:50:00 1993
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Date: Thu, 9 Dec 1993 19:07:02 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Problem compiling pine3.89 on ultrix 4.2
To: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Cc: Pine Info Group <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9312091737.B14165-b100000@ultrix.uor.edu>
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Sharon,

Unfortunately Ultrix/RISC and Ultrix/VAX are enough different that we 
have separate ports.  Use "build vul" and it should work.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Sharon Deng wrote:

> 
> Hi, Pine Group:
> We are running ultrix 4.2 on micro vax 3100.  When I use "build ult" to
> build the pine3.89, I got the following error:
>    :
>    :
>   cc -g3 -O2 -Olimit 800 -Dconst= -c misc.c
>   cc -g3 -O2 -Olimit 800 -Dconst= -DRSH=\"rsh\" -DRSHPATH=\"/usr/ucb/rsh\"
> -c os_c
>   cc: warning: -g disables -O
>   cc -g3 -O2 -Olimit 800 -Dconst= -c sm_unix.c
>   cc: warning: -g disables -O
>   rm -f c-client.a
>   ar rc c-client.a mail.o bezerk.o tenex2.o mbox.o mh.o imap2.o news.o
> nntpclient.o
>   ranlib c-client.a
>   echo -g3 -O2 -Olimit 800 -Dconst= > CFLAGS
>   echo > LDFLAGS
>   cc -g3 -O2 -Olimit 800 -Dconst= -o mtest mtest.o c-client.a
>   cc: warning: -g disables -O
>   ld:800: cannot open
>   *** Error code 4
> 
>   Stop.
> 
> Has anybody have the same problem?  Could anybody tell me how to fix it? 
> Any help would be greatly appreciated !!  
> 
> 
> 
> Sharon Deng
> Assistant Director			Internet: deng@ultrix.uor.edu
> Academic Computer Center			  deng@jccvms.uor.edu
> University of Redlands			   Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 10 09:22:33 1993
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 16:58:51 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: The Y key
To: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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Terry,

I can't add much to what I've said before; 

1. The changes in interface ("why doesn't my command work anymore") mean
that we're sticking with 3.07 for now. (Our Pine users are the sort of 
people Pine was created for - the gimme-more-features types use other things)

We can't afford to man the phones with crisis counsellors. Most of our 
Pine users are new to Unix and use it mostly for mail. Pine has been a 
huge success in winning people over to Unix. 

2. 3.07's G ^T does lots of what 3.8x's new L does, but we sacrifice 
an essential operation on a semi-intuitive (laser/lineprinter) key. Most
of our novices hardly use folders - for them something arcane just 
elbowed out sometghing vital.

3. Y means yes in Pine. 3.8x needs less yeses (eg on expunge/quit) but 
people hit it anyway. It needs to be innocuous. (These same people major 
on Wordpefect. Saying Y to questions is now hardwired in their minds.)

I'd press you to look at what List Folders gives the user. Using G to mean
Goto Folder List (subtle difference from Goto Folder) and restoring L to
print would be our preferred option (and we may get hacking to make it
look that way here). 

Mike


==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,                          Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF                Fax: 0734 753094



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 10 11:05:35 1993
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 18:44:45 GMT
From: Laurie Cuthbert <L.G.Cuthbert@qmw.ac.uk>
Subject: address book format
To: ecs-info@edm.isac.ca, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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To my understanding, the only difference between the format 
used by ECS mail and by pine's normal orperation is that the 
order of first name / last name is reversed, and that pine 
uses a comma to separate the last name and first name.

It is likely to become quite common here for users to switch 
between pine and ECS, depending on which machine they 
happened to be: it it would be rather nice if it were 
possible for ECS mail to be able to read the pine format 
and convert the full name to the correct form in the mail 
header.

I realise that is possible to use the ECS format in pine, 
but by default (following the addressbook menu prompts) the 
reveral and comma are included - and I suspect that many of 
our users would get things wrong if they were told to ignore 
the prompts and always use first_name last_name.

I also accept that it is very easy to convert between 
formats, but given the closeness of the formats a 100% 
compatibility seems a good idea.

Perhaps something for the wish list for ECS.

Regards

Laurie Cuthbert




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 10 11:55:36 1993
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 11:26:58 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: The Y key
To: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312101637.A13234-0100000@suma3>
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Mike,
Even though I was hoping to keep the "Y" traffic on the list to a minimum
by asking folks to reply to me directly on this topic, you've raised
several important philosophical issues, so I'd like to respond to the  
whole list.

I know that you are upset with the changes we have made, but please
consider the comments I've embedded below... 

> 1. The changes in interface ("why doesn't my command work anymore") mean
> that we're sticking with 3.07 for now. 

That is of course your choice, but newer versions have important bug fixes
as well as feature enhancements.  Some of the characteristics of 3.07
(e.g. the fact that it doesn't correctly type an text attachment) will
cause support problems for other sites, not just yours.  So we'd certainly
like to encourage you to upgrade as soon as possible. 

> (Our Pine users are the sort of 
> people Pine was created for - the gimme-more-features types use other things)

We don't think we've forgotten the people Pine was created for.  We've
tried very hard to keep the additional feature complexity hidden from the 
base-line users, which is why there are now so many features that can be
enabled by those who wish them.

Regarding features: what we have found is that there are an *infinite*
number of them that people want.  We do get messages just telling us how
much folks like Pine, but we get even more saying "It's great, but it
would be so much better if it just did this one other thing..." 

Therefore, it would seem that either Pine is finding a new audience of
folks who are not completely satisified with the alternative, admittedly
more feature-rich, mailers, or the existing Pine audience is growing in
its feature expectations.  Probably both.  But either way, my impression
is that you are not so upset with new features, since by-and-large they
are invisible unless you ask for them (the "+" in the index being an
exception)... rather, I believe you are upset that we changed the
"perfectly good" Pine user interface. 

Why did we do that?  In the case of L and Y specifically, it had nothing
to do with new features; it was a response to feedback from many people on
this list that there was too much inconsistency in the user-interface. Too
much modality, where a command would work from one screen, but not
another.  So we worked very hard to try to reduce that inconsistency. We
still have some, for example some things are only possible from the main
menu (e.g. address book mtce, keyboard lock).  And there is the necessary
modality between normal commands, and the Control-key commands used in
text-input situations.  But we tried very hard to make the frequently used
commands, and especially the major navigation commands (L,I,G,Q) available
from every screen. 
 
> We can't afford to man the phones with crisis counsellors. 

Nor can we.  That was one of the key motivations behind the Pine project. 

> Most of our 
> Pine users are new to Unix and use it mostly for mail. Pine has been a 
> huge success in winning people over to Unix. 

Same here, though we also use it on some machines where Unix is
deliberately hidden from the user. 
 
> 2. 3.07's G ^T does lots of what 3.8x's new L does, but we sacrifice 
> an essential operation on a semi-intuitive (laser/lineprinter) key. Most
> of our novices hardly use folders - for them something arcane just 
> elbowed out sometghing vital.

I think your phrasing way overstates the case.  No functionality has been
lost; the only issue is the muscle memory of the installed base, and how
easily those mental muscles can be re-trained.  We have to keep two issues
distinct: 
 1. Should we have changed Print at all?
 2. Given that we changed it, did we make a good choice for the new Print?

There are clearly sites that feel we chose the alternative key poorly
(and in retrospect I agree, though it is not yet clear that we can/should
change again.)  But so far, yours is the only site that has said "We
refuse to upgrade because you changed Print at all."

At UW we have between 20 and 30,000 Pine users.  Our experience in
installing Pine 3.8x at the beginning of this quarter was that it was not
a big deal.  Even *I* hit L for awhile intending to print, but now its 3
months later, and I don't do that any more.  Most (but not all :) of the
feedback we got was in appreciation of some of the new stuff; to my
recollection we didn't get any "Why did you change Print?" messages, and
as far as I know, the phones didn't ring off the hook for the consultants.
Indeed, when I polled our local support people about changing Y to
something else, the general response was "don't change; it's not been a
problem". 

Reports from other sites indicate similar experiences. That's not to say
we take UI changes lightly; only that I believe you are over-stating the
doom that would occur if you installed 3.8x...

Consider:

  o Many people never considered "L Print" to be mnemonic.
  o Many people use folders far more often than they print.
  o As newsreading via Pine becomes more common, L becomes even more important.
  o G^T is neither equivalent to L, nor as intuitive for novices.
  o If we made G equivalent to L, the folks who like what G does
    would be even more upset than you are.
  o In a year there will probably be more people in the world who never 
    knew that Pine's Print cmd was once "L" than those who do know.
 
> 3. Y means yes in Pine. 3.8x needs less yeses (eg on expunge/quit) but 
> people hit it anyway. It needs to be innocuous. (These same people major 
> on Wordpefect. Saying Y to questions is now hardwired in their minds.)

And N means no, except, of course, when it means Next...  So it's not a
perfect world; design compromises must be made.  But this brings us to the
question of whether Y was the best alternative to L, and I'm willing to
take some heat on that. 
 
> I'd press you to look at what List Folders gives the user. Using G to mean
> Goto Folder List (subtle difference from Goto Folder) and restoring L to
> print would be our preferred option 

The reason we believe the "List Folders" behavior is more suitable for
novices than the "Goto Folder" behavior is that G confronts users with the
dreaded "blinking cursor" situation; that is, it requires input of a
string, as opposed to simply picking from a list.  There's no doubt that G
is an important function --probably more people rely on it than we
originally thought-- but likewise, I suspect more people are using
ListFolders at your site than you realize. 

Note that G^T is not equivalent to L, at least *may* not be, depending on
how folder collections and features are defined.  (G^T will auto-expand
the current collection.  L will either expand none or all of the folder
collections, depending on the .pinerc settings.) And the ^T cases in Pine
are intended to simulate a "popup" browser, analogous to what you might 
find in a GUI app. 

> (and we may get hacking to make it
> look that way here). 

Your choice, certainly... that's why we make source available.  But please
think about investing in a one-time muscle-memory-retraining program (that
others have not found too painful) instead of the prospect of supporting a
different version of Pine forever after.  The code is certainly not
static; we are continuing to evolve Pine as quickly as we can... and
*maybe* even making it "better" in the process :)

Finally, even though we disagree on this issue, I *do* appreciate your 
comments. Nothing gets better without feedback.

-teg


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 10 12:09:31 1993
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 11:41:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Subject: re: Problem compiling pine3.89 on ultrix 4.2
To: Mark Crispin <MRC@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: Pine Info Group <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <MailManager.755489332.29282.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
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On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:

> Sharon -
> 
>     Try ``build vul'' instead of ``build ult''.  vul is the VAX Ultrix port.
> 
> -- Mark --
> 
Hi, Mark:
I followed your instruction.  It compiled successfully.  At the end of the
process, it told me the executable files were put into pine3.89/bin
directory.  It seems everything was working fine.  Then I cd to
pine3.89/bin to run pine.  It ran, but the pine version number displayed at
the first line of the windown is "PINE 3.07".  Am I missing something
again or it was just display the wrong version number on the screen? 
Thank you for the help.


Sharon Deng
Assistant Director			Internet: deng@ultrix.uor.edu
Academic Computer Center			  deng@jccvms.uor.edu
University of Redlands			   Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 10 13:05:38 1993
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 20:42:02 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: The Y key (& newsreading)
To: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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Terry,

Ok, it's a fair cop - people can eventually cope with anything. Just a 
couple of points then I'll drop it:

On Fri, 10 Dec 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

> I think your phrasing way overstates the case.
True. By injecting melodrama and playing on your conscience there was 
just a chance I'd make something happen. ;^)

> We do get messages just telling us how
> much folks like Pine, but we get even more saying "It's great, but it
> would be so much better if it just did this one other thing..."
Are you sure that people who subscribe to lists and who are confident 
enough to bug program developers are a representative cross section of 
Pine users?

>   o Many people use folders far more often than they print. 
But how many and which kind of user? Not convinced!

>   o As newsreading via Pine becomes more common, L becomes even more important.
Newsreading! Now there I got really mad - for a year people here have had 
zero-size entries in their mailbox with names like *comp.answers which 
magically gave them newsreading. In 3.8x this magically fails (saying 
Empty folder). They must now 

for i in `ls $HOME/mail/\**`
do
	echo `basename $i|tr '*' ' '`: >> $HOME/.newsrc
done

to stay in the newsreading business. (An unannounced new feature) 

>   o G^T is neither equivalent to L, nor as intuitive for novices.
No but 
>   o If we made G equivalent to L, the folks who like what G does
>     would be even more upset than you are.
I wonder. They keep the new facility. There'd be some mnemonic value in G 
(Goto Fldr List) and L (Laser/Lineprint)

>   o In a year there will probably be more people in the world who never 
>     knew that Pine's Print cmd was once "L" than those who do know.
It's getting to look that way ;^)

> > I'd press you to look at what List Folders gives the user. Using G to mean
> > Goto Folder List (subtle difference from Goto Folder) and restoring L to
> > print would be our preferred option 
> 
> The reason we believe the "List Folders" behavior is more suitable for
> novices than the "Goto Folder" behavior is that G confronts users with the
> dreaded "blinking cursor" situation; that is, it requires input of a
> string, as opposed to simply picking from a list.  There's no doubt that G
I agree with all that; I'm suggesting that G could take you to the 
Folder List screen. [Return] (after switching collection if required) then 
replaces ^T.
 
> Your choice, certainly... that's why we make source available.  But please
> think about investing in a one-time muscle-memory-retraining program (that
			     ^^^^^^^^-- Is that a promise?

If Y => print prevails, how about putting prYnt (yes, that spelling) on
the menu that people see (not the Other one) when reading mail? 

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,                          Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF                Fax: 0734 753094





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 10 13:12:16 1993
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 12:50:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Adam Garrett <garrett@lib.washington.edu>
Subject: re: Problem compiling pine3.89 on ultrix 4.2
To: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Cc: Mark Crispin <MRC@cac.washington.edu>,
        Pine Info Group <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9312101140.A27737-a100000@ultrix.uor.edu>
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Sharon,

Make sure the 3.07 binary (probably in /usr/local/bin) has been renamed 
or removed.

-Adam

Adam R. Garrett
University of Washington Libraries     INTERNET: garrett@lib.washington.edu
352 Suzzallo Library, FM-25            PHONE:    (206) 543-8843
Seattle, WA  98195                     FAX:      (206) 685-8049

On Fri, 10 Dec 1993, Sharon Deng wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:
> 
> > Sharon -
> > 
> >     Try ``build vul'' instead of ``build ult''.  vul is the VAX Ultrix port.
> > 
> > -- Mark --
> > 
> Hi, Mark:
> I followed your instruction.  It compiled successfully.  At the end of the
> process, it told me the executable files were put into pine3.89/bin
> directory.  It seems everything was working fine.  Then I cd to
> pine3.89/bin to run pine.  It ran, but the pine version number displayed at
> the first line of the windown is "PINE 3.07".  Am I missing something
> again or it was just display the wrong version number on the screen? 
> Thank you for the help.
> 
> 
> Sharon Deng
> Assistant Director			Internet: deng@ultrix.uor.edu
> Academic Computer Center			  deng@jccvms.uor.edu
> University of Redlands			   Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 10 13:17:16 1993
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 12:53:53 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: re: Problem compiling pine3.89 on ultrix 4.2
To: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Cc: Mark Crispin <MRC@cac.washington.edu>,
        Pine Info Group <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9312101140.A27737-a100000@ultrix.uor.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.90.9312101209.F3996-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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Sharon,

Try ``./pine'' to run the new pine.  It looks like you have the current 
directory last in your PATH...

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 10 Dec 1993, Sharon Deng wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:
> 
> > Sharon -
> > 
> >     Try ``build vul'' instead of ``build ult''.  vul is the VAX Ultrix port.
> > 
> > -- Mark --
> > 
> Hi, Mark:
> I followed your instruction.  It compiled successfully.  At the end of the
> process, it told me the executable files were put into pine3.89/bin
> directory.  It seems everything was working fine.  Then I cd to
> pine3.89/bin to run pine.  It ran, but the pine version number displayed at
> the first line of the windown is "PINE 3.07".  Am I missing something
> again or it was just display the wrong version number on the screen? 
> Thank you for the help.
> 
> 
> Sharon Deng
> Assistant Director			Internet: deng@ultrix.uor.edu
> Academic Computer Center			  deng@jccvms.uor.edu
> University of Redlands			   Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 10 14:42:30 1993
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 14:26:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <thorpej@cs.orst.edu>
Subject: re: Problem compiling pine3.89 on ultrix 4.2
To: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Cc: Mark Crispin <MRC@cac.washington.edu>,
        Pine Info Group <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9312101140.A27737-a100000@ultrix.uor.edu>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 10 Dec 1993, Sharon Deng wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Dec 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:
> 
> > Sharon -
> > 
> >     Try ``build vul'' instead of ``build ult''.  vul is the VAX Ultrix port.
> > 
> > -- Mark --
> > 
> Hi, Mark:
> I followed your instruction.  It compiled successfully.  At the end of the
> process, it told me the executable files were put into pine3.89/bin
> directory.  It seems everything was working fine.  Then I cd to
> pine3.89/bin to run pine.  It ran, but the pine version number displayed at
> the first line of the windown is "PINE 3.07".  Am I missing something
> again or it was just display the wrong version number on the screen? 
> Thank you for the help.

./pine will run the pine in the current directory...otherwise, the shell 
reads your path...

> 
> 
> Sharon Deng
> Assistant Director			Internet: deng@ultrix.uor.edu
> Academic Computer Center			  deng@jccvms.uor.edu
> University of Redlands			   Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963
> 
> 
> 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason R. Thorpe          |     'All standard...'     |    434 Weatherford Hall
OSU Computer Science     |    thorpej@cs.orst.edu    |     Corvallis, OR 97331
Support Staff            |  '...disclaimers apply.'  |          (503) 737-9533



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 10 15:51:00 1993
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Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 15:33:55 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <mrc@Panda.COM>
Subject: re: Problem compiling pine3.89 on ultrix 4.2
To: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Cc: Pine Info Group <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.07.9312101140.A27737-a100000@ultrix.uor.edu>
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On Fri, 10 Dec 1993, Sharon Deng wrote:
> I followed your instruction.  It compiled successfully.  At the end of the
> process, it told me the executable files were put into pine3.89/bin
> directory.  It seems everything was working fine.  Then I cd to
> pine3.89/bin to run pine.  It ran, but the pine version number displayed at
> the first line of the windown is "PINE 3.07".  Am I missing something
> again or it was just display the wrong version number on the screen? 
> Thank you for the help.

Hi Sharon -

     I think that you inadvertantly ran your system's old Pine instead of 
the new one.  Try:
	% cd pine3.89/bin
	% ./pine			<== ./ to force using this directory

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sat Dec 11 07:38:21 1993
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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 07:12:26 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <mramey@u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Mike Ramey <mramey@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: The Y key "prYnt"
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312101943.A14791-0100000@suma3>
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On Fri, 10 Dec 1993, Mike Roch wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 10 Dec 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
> 
> >   o Many people use folders far more often than they print. 
> But how many and which kind of user? Not convinced!

Terry, please don't underestimate the importance of the print function.
I use it as a major selling point for pine; users love it.  Thanks for
the fix to print on attached >postscript< printers; big help!!!

> If Y => print prevails, how about putting prYnt (yes, that spelling) on
> the menu that people see (not the Other one) when reading mail? 

Excellent idea!  Move "V" (View Attachments) to the "Other" menu;
it's out of place on cmd-menu-#1 anyway; too advanced.

I have no trouble with "Y" for print.  If there were a problem with it,
I don't think it is that people print by accident -- that's no biggie;
they 'just say No' to the confirming question.  It -would- be a problem
if people were hitting Y (for print?) and accidentally replying Y to a
question about deleting (or expunging) messages -- which would be 
irreversible!  But apparently that's not what's happening.  

Keep "Y" for "prYnt".  -mr



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sat Dec 11 18:37:25 1993
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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 18:17:19 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <thorpej@cs.orst.edu>
Subject: Ports?
To: The Happy Pine Thread <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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Just a quick question...

To whom (to what address) do I send a port to?  I have a few friends who 
are tired of hacking pine to compile on a NetBSD box, so I did a port 
last night...It's fully tested, and roaring to go...version 3.89

I have a tar file of the files modified and of the files I created...The 
code is fully portable and will not interfere with other ports...

BTW...I found a bug in the pine/makefile.bsi...Someone needs to change 
the osdep/os-nxt.c rule to read osdep/os-bsi.c ... Otherwise it doesn't 
work...

Later...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason R. Thorpe          |     'All standard...'     |    434 Weatherford Hall
OSU Computer Science     |    thorpej@cs.orst.edu    |     Corvallis, OR 97331
Support Staff            |  '...disclaimers apply.'  |          (503) 737-9533



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sat Dec 11 19:21:20 1993
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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 19:09:26 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Ports?
To: "Jason R. Thorpe" <thorpej@cs.orst.edu>
Cc: The Happy Pine Thread <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312111852.A24643-0100000@mundania.CS.ORST.EDU>
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Jason,

Send your port to pine-bugs@cac.washington.edu.  BTW, there has been a
significant re-write in the c-client OS-dependent parts.  It would help us
alot if you could grab the latest imap.tar.Z from ftp.cac.washington.edu and
use the c-client out of it.  Thanks! 

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Sat, 11 Dec 1993, Jason R. Thorpe wrote:

> Just a quick question...
> 
> To whom (to what address) do I send a port to?  I have a few friends who 
> are tired of hacking pine to compile on a NetBSD box, so I did a port 
> last night...It's fully tested, and roaring to go...version 3.89
> 
> I have a tar file of the files modified and of the files I created...The 
> code is fully portable and will not interfere with other ports...
> 
> BTW...I found a bug in the pine/makefile.bsi...Someone needs to change 
> the osdep/os-nxt.c rule to read osdep/os-bsi.c ... Otherwise it doesn't 
> work...
> 
> Later...
> 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Jason R. Thorpe          |     'All standard...'     |    434 Weatherford Hall
> OSU Computer Science     |    thorpej@cs.orst.edu    |     Corvallis, OR 97331
> Support Staff            |  '...disclaimers apply.'  |          (503) 737-9533
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sat Dec 11 21:30:42 1993
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Date: Sat, 11 Dec 1993 21:24:17 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <thorpej@cs.orst.edu>
Subject: Re: Ports?
To: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: The Happy Pine Thread <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.90.9312111952.E12860-0100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Sat, 11 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:

> 
> Jason,
> 
> Send your port to pine-bugs@cac.washington.edu.  BTW, there has been a
> significant re-write in the c-client OS-dependent parts.  It would help us
> alot if you could grab the latest imap.tar.Z from ftp.cac.washington.edu and
> use the c-client out of it.  Thanks! 

No problem...I'll have the port of that ready tonight and beam you a tar 
of all of my changes...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason R. Thorpe          |     'All standard...'     |    434 Weatherford Hall
OSU Computer Science     |    thorpej@cs.orst.edu    |     Corvallis, OR 97331
Support Staff            |  '...disclaimers apply.'  |          (503) 737-9533



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Dec 12 16:25:03 1993
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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 18:19:11 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Reply-To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Subject: More Pine-Dreams
To: Pine Info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Hmm, I've gotten pretty good at these, it seems, so here are some more  
(actually nothing too earth-shattering this time).

-----
1.  Ability to go to the filter listing by default from the command line.

Currently, I accomplish this with the following alias:
	'pine -lzI l'
But that is kinda kludgy.  Perhap if you designated the '-L' flag, then 
when you start pine it goes right to the folder index.  Most nice when 
dealing with multiple inboxes (I think I have eight at last count).

-----
2.  Ability to blind carbon-copy to distributions by default

When you mail to a distribution, espicially a large one, the recipients 
of the message gets reported to all the people.  You can get around this 
by using the Bcc: line in the rich-text area, but I'd like to be able to 
to have an old-growth option in the .pinerc so that if i type in a 
distribution name, it is automatically put into the Bcc: line, that way I 
don't have to worry about remembering, or accidently  allowing the whole 
distribution know who's on it.

-----
3.  Ability to mail a file to a person/distribution from command line

Yes, I know this has been grumbled about from all camps before, but I 
need to toss in my two pennies worth.

Perhaps it doesn't need to be fancy.  Make two flags:
	-s 'subject'
	-F '/path/to/filename'

That way, to would be possible to mail put into batch files and scripts 
mailings to distributions and the like.

Example:
	pine dist1 dist 2 person1 -s 'FAQ for comp.foo.bar' -F ~/faq

----------

Just some sunday evening grumblings.

____         Robert A. Hayden          <=> hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
\  /__           -=-=-=-=-             <=>          -=-=-=-=-
 \/  /    Finger for Geek Code Info    <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
   \/   Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1)  GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
		       n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Dec 12 16:44:51 1993
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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 16:35:11 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: More Pine-Dreams
To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Cc: Pine Info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312121852.B3807-0100000@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
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Robert,

1. Set "initial-keystrokes=l" in your .pinerc file.

2. It's on the list...

3. What does this gain you over /usr/ucb/mail?

Thanks for the suggestions!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Sun, 12 Dec 1993, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> Hmm, I've gotten pretty good at these, it seems, so here are some more  
> (actually nothing too earth-shattering this time).
> 
> -----
> 1.  Ability to go to the filter listing by default from the command line.
> 
> Currently, I accomplish this with the following alias:
> 	'pine -lzI l'
> But that is kinda kludgy.  Perhap if you designated the '-L' flag, then 
> when you start pine it goes right to the folder index.  Most nice when 
> dealing with multiple inboxes (I think I have eight at last count).
> 
> -----
> 2.  Ability to blind carbon-copy to distributions by default
> 
> When you mail to a distribution, espicially a large one, the recipients 
> of the message gets reported to all the people.  You can get around this 
> by using the Bcc: line in the rich-text area, but I'd like to be able to 
> to have an old-growth option in the .pinerc so that if i type in a 
> distribution name, it is automatically put into the Bcc: line, that way I 
> don't have to worry about remembering, or accidently  allowing the whole 
> distribution know who's on it.
> 
> -----
> 3.  Ability to mail a file to a person/distribution from command line
> 
> Yes, I know this has been grumbled about from all camps before, but I 
> need to toss in my two pennies worth.
> 
> Perhaps it doesn't need to be fancy.  Make two flags:
> 	-s 'subject'
> 	-F '/path/to/filename'
> 
> That way, to would be possible to mail put into batch files and scripts 
> mailings to distributions and the like.
> 
> Example:
> 	pine dist1 dist 2 person1 -s 'FAQ for comp.foo.bar' -F ~/faq
> 
> ----------
> 
> Just some sunday evening grumblings.
> 
> ____         Robert A. Hayden          <=> hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
> \  /__           -=-=-=-=-             <=>          -=-=-=-=-
>  \/  /    Finger for Geek Code Info    <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
>    \/   Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> (GEEK CODE 1.0.1)  GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
> 		       n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Dec 12 17:52:11 1993
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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 19:48:10 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Subject: Re: More Pine-Dreams
To: Pine Info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.90.9312121609.C12751-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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On Sun, 12 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:

> 3. What does this gain you over /usr/ucb/mail?

The ability to use the .addressbook, for the most part.  I have a series 
of distributions ranginf from 5 to 300 names, and I'd like to be able to 
automate via cron and at processes mailing files, instead of having to be 
sure I log in that day, and mail the files.  

That, or a program to convert .addressbook to .mailrc would also work, I 
suppose.

> Thanks for the suggestions!

No problem.  Any chance that Pine will be able to do my dishes any time 
soon (as long as we are asking for features :-)



____         Robert A. Hayden          <=> hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
\  /__           -=-=-=-=-             <=>          -=-=-=-=-
 \/  /    Finger for Geek Code Info    <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
   \/   Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1)  GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
		       n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Dec 12 18:11:22 1993
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Date: Sun, 12 Dec 1993 18:03:37 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: More Pine-Dreams
To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Cc: Pine Info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312121918.B6326-0100000@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
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We have recieved a contributed script to convert from .addressbook to 
.mailrc format, but have not had a chance to check it out and make it 
available.

The dishwasher will be included in version 19.84 ;-)

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Sun, 12 Dec 1993, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> On Sun, 12 Dec 1993, David L Miller wrote:
> 
> > 3. What does this gain you over /usr/ucb/mail?
> 
> The ability to use the .addressbook, for the most part.  I have a series 
> of distributions ranginf from 5 to 300 names, and I'd like to be able to 
> automate via cron and at processes mailing files, instead of having to be 
> sure I log in that day, and mail the files.  
> 
> That, or a program to convert .addressbook to .mailrc would also work, I 
> suppose.
> 
> > Thanks for the suggestions!
> 
> No problem.  Any chance that Pine will be able to do my dishes any time 
> soon (as long as we are asking for features :-)
> 
> 
> 
> ____         Robert A. Hayden          <=> hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
> \  /__           -=-=-=-=-             <=>          -=-=-=-=-
>  \/  /    Finger for Geek Code Info    <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
>    \/   Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> (GEEK CODE 1.0.1)  GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
> 		       n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Dec 12 22:47:46 1993
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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 08:43:49 +0000 (   )
From: Alan Robert Clark <clark@YingTongDiddleIPo.ee.wits.ac.za>
Subject: Warning, Newbie! Filters for incoming mail Q
To: "Pine-info mailing list." <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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Hi, I have just started using Pine, over Elm, and its marvellous!
(v3.05.1) However, I am subscribed to quite a number of mailing lists, and
I would like to filter these into various folders. I have fiddled with all
the Pine docs, man filter, shoved together some filter rules etc etc....

Can anyone out there hold my hand????
Ta
Alan. (Using linux, if it matters)

Alan Robert Clark, Pr Eng     Computational Electromagnetics
Dept Elec Eng                         Wits University
P.O.Wits                   ``Bugs are later known as features''
2050 South Africa                 Ps 110:11; Ps 37/150
Fax (+27 11)403-1929       clark@YingTongDiddleIPo.ee.wits.ac.za(Pref)
Tel (+27 11)716-5404(24hr)      or clark@odie.ee.wits.ac.za
     ***Linux 0.99pl13 - the choice of a GNU generation.***




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Dec 12 23:31:02 1993
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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 01:25:17 -0600 (CST)
From: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Subject: Pico sucking oodles of memory
To: Pine Info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312130122.A12030-0100000@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
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I noticed something....

Ok, I started up pico on my home Linux machine editing a 1.6MB file.

---

But this is what ps -u is giving me:

USER        PID %CPU %MEM SIZE  RSS TT STAT START   TIME COMMAND
root        938 18.7 72.9 12956 5024  2 S    01:09   0:42 pico -z research2

---

This is the entry for the file I am editing:
-rw-------   1 root     root      1656585 Dec 13  1993 research2

---

Finally, this is the same ps -u entry for running pico WITHOUT a file:

USER        PID %CPU %MEM SIZE  RSS TT STAT START   TIME COMMAND
root        979  1.6  4.1  200  284  3 S    01:18   0:00 pico

-------

Is there some reason why pico is using over 7x the memory of the file it 
is editing?  I can see it having to load all 1.6 megs of data into memory 
to work with it, but something doesn't seem right here....


____         Robert A. Hayden          <=> hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
\  /__           -=-=-=-=-             <=>          -=-=-=-=-
 \/  /    Finger for Geek Code Info    <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
   \/   Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
(GEEK CODE 1.0.1)  GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
		       n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 13 05:34:52 1993
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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 13:10:59 GMT
From: Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Suggestions for Improvements in Pine
To: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
X-Sender: bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9312131326.D6072-0100000@[131.111.10.53]>
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One of my users has sent a longish list of these; the three I have not been 
able to answer directly (either stupid or on the list) are:

* Allowing you to set up your .pinerc file directly from within Pine - it 
would be nice, and has the potential for making the file much easier to 
change, the settings more intuitively obvious, and could reduce the 
possibility of error.

* Automatic Recognition of more file formats - not just TIFF, but how
about more common ones like GIF, JPEG, etc. 

* Making the Export command more like rn's extract command - so that you 
could easily, without having to think, extract uuencoded files (for 
example), even those split across several messages, and put them back 
together! 
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy                        Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development    Direct line:        +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site                   Email:Barry.Landy@ucs.cam.ac.uk
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 13 09:57:38 1993
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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 09:25:00 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Pico sucking oodles of memory
To: "Robert A. Hayden" <hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
Cc: Pine Info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312130122.A12030-0100000@krypton.mankato.msus.edu>
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Robert,

Pico does use a fairly memory intensive internal format for the text. 
Basically, you are looking at 12*nl+2*nc, where nl is the number of lines and
nc is the number of characters, exclusive of newlines.  Actually, it could be
12*nl+4*nc, depending on how the compiler handles the CELL struct.  For 
details, see the definitions of CELL and LINE in pico/estruct.h.

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 13 Dec 1993, Robert A. Hayden wrote:

> I noticed something....
> 
> Ok, I started up pico on my home Linux machine editing a 1.6MB file.
> 
> ---
> 
> But this is what ps -u is giving me:
> 
> USER        PID %CPU %MEM SIZE  RSS TT STAT START   TIME COMMAND
> root        938 18.7 72.9 12956 5024  2 S    01:09   0:42 pico -z research2
> 
> ---
> 
> This is the entry for the file I am editing:
> -rw-------   1 root     root      1656585 Dec 13  1993 research2
> 
> ---
> 
> Finally, this is the same ps -u entry for running pico WITHOUT a file:
> 
> USER        PID %CPU %MEM SIZE  RSS TT STAT START   TIME COMMAND
> root        979  1.6  4.1  200  284  3 S    01:18   0:00 pico
> 
> -------
> 
> Is there some reason why pico is using over 7x the memory of the file it 
> is editing?  I can see it having to load all 1.6 megs of data into memory 
> to work with it, but something doesn't seem right here....
> 
> 
> ____         Robert A. Hayden          <=> hayden@krypton.mankato.msus.edu
> \  /__           -=-=-=-=-             <=>          -=-=-=-=-
>  \/  /    Finger for Geek Code Info    <=> Veteran of the Bermuda Triangle
>    \/   Finger for PGP 2.3a Public Key <=> Expeditionary Force -- 1993-1951
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
> (GEEK CODE 1.0.1)  GAT d- -p+(---) c++(++++) l++ u++ e+/* m++(*)@ s-/++
> 		       n-(---) h+(*) f+ g+ w++ t++ r++ y+(*)
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 13 10:02:30 1993
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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 09:45:17 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Suggestions for Improvements in Pine
To: Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Cc: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9312131326.D6072-0100000@[131.111.10.53]>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.90.9312130921.R19375-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Barry,

A builtin configuration editor is on the list.  When sending a message, Pine
can recognize TIFF, GIF, and JPEG/JFIF format attachments and label them
accordingly.  When viewing an attachment, it now assumes that the
image-viewer can handle any image.  Full support for .mailcap processing is
"just around the corner."  We are starting to get some experience with
.mailcap with other applications, so it should not be too long now.  We are
planning to implement the Pipe command pretty soon which should allow this
type of operation.  Using it with the apply command you will be able to pipe
a group of messages to a program, like uudecode.  We will also be working on
merging multi-message MIME attachments. 

Thanks for the suggestions!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 13 Dec 1993, Barry Landy wrote:

> One of my users has sent a longish list of these; the three I have not been 
> able to answer directly (either stupid or on the list) are:
> 
> * Allowing you to set up your .pinerc file directly from within Pine - it 
> would be nice, and has the potential for making the file much easier to 
> change, the settings more intuitively obvious, and could reduce the 
> possibility of error.
> 
> * Automatic Recognition of more file formats - not just TIFF, but how
> about more common ones like GIF, JPEG, etc. 
> 
> * Making the Export command more like rn's extract command - so that you 
> could easily, without having to think, extract uuencoded files (for 
> example), even those split across several messages, and put them back 
> together! 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Barry Landy                        Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
> Head of Systems and Development    Direct line:        +44 223 334713
> University of Cambridge Computing Service
> New Museums Site                   Email:Barry.Landy@ucs.cam.ac.uk
> Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG
> 
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 13 14:00:42 1993
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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 13:56:32 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: PC-Pine
To: Patrick Heck <heck@evansville.edu>
Cc: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312021728.A2839-0100000@revival>
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Patrick,

PC-Pine will search for the PINERC file in the following places (in order): 

	File pointed to by  the PINERC environment variable
	$HOME\PINE\PINERC
	Same directory as PINE.EXE

--DLM
	

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Thu, 2 Dec 1993, Patrick Heck wrote:

> 
> 
> Our System Administrator is under the impression that PC-Pine (PINERC in
> particular) must reside in the C:\PINE directory.  Is this true?  We have 
> diskless workstations in some of our public labs so we can't even copy 
> the necessary files to a local hard drive as the files are needed.
> 
> Patrick Heck
> University of Evansville                     heck@evansville.edu
> Evansville, IN   47722                       (812) 479-2193
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 13 14:00:45 1993
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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 16:54:36 -0500 (EST)
From: Software Maintenance Account <src@keene.edu>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.90.9312082243.C28568-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
> However, new mail notification for folders other than INBOX is more
> problematic, both for performance/resource reasons and for U.I. design
> reasons.  (For one thing, an IMAP stream would have to be kept open for
> each of these folders, and it isn't obvious how to clearly communicate to
> the user which folder has the new mail, etc, etc.) So this part will take
> a lot more consideration, and is unlikely to happen "soon"... 

*If* you implement this feature, please make sure it is not a default
behavior!  I would not like to have my pine screen beep at me every five
minutes as items got added to folders for active mailing lists....

--David



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 13 14:09:31 1993
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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 14:03:57 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: PC-Pine - Which compiler built it?
To: Allan Bjorklund <allan@rodan.rs.itd.umich.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <PCPine_p.3.89.9312080037.A12943-0100000@[35.192.193.34]>
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Allan,

It is MSC 7.0.  Offhand I don't know anything special about the config. 
MikeS could give you more detailed information, but he is home with a new
baby... 

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, Allan Bjorklund wrote:

> Quick question.
> 
> Which compiler(s) were used to build PC-Pine?
> Looking at the makefile it appears to be MicroSoft C.  Which version?
> Which linker?     Version number?
> Are there any compiler specific environment variables set when it is built?
> 
> --Allan
>   allan@rodan.rs.itd.umich.edu
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 13 15:05:25 1993
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Date: Mon, 13 Dec 1993 14:39:00 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: Software Maintenance Account <src@keene.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9312131634.A6829-a100000@monadnock.keene.edu>
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David,

That is a good point, thanks for bringing it up!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Mon, 13 Dec 1993, Software Maintenance Account wrote:

> On Wed, 8 Dec 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
> > However, new mail notification for folders other than INBOX is more
> > problematic, both for performance/resource reasons and for U.I. design
> > reasons.  (For one thing, an IMAP stream would have to be kept open for
> > each of these folders, and it isn't obvious how to clearly communicate to
> > the user which folder has the new mail, etc, etc.) So this part will take
> > a lot more consideration, and is unlikely to happen "soon"... 
> 
> *If* you implement this feature, please make sure it is not a default
> behavior!  I would not like to have my pine screen beep at me every five
> minutes as items got added to folders for active mailing lists....
> 
> --David
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 14 00:14:33 1993
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Subject: Yet another question re rimapd...
From: Kari Sutela <sutela@utu.fi>
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: 	Tue, 14 Dec 1993 09:40:17 +0200
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Message-Id: <93Dec14.094022eet.166072-4@utu.fi>


Sigh,

I know this has been asked and answered previously but, unfortunately,
I wasn't paying attention at the time.  The problem is, I can't get
the "rsh-like" rimpad mechnamism to work.  First of all, rsh works
perfectly (I can rsh from my client to imapd server no problem).
However, no matter what I try, pine still asks me for password when I
use the imapd INBOX.

I have tried:

	1) Installing imapd in /usr/local/etc and "ln -s
	   /usr/local/etc/imapd /etc/rimapd"

	2) Installing imapd as /etc/rimapd and "ln -s /etc/rimapd
	   /usr/local/etc/imapd"

	3) Installing imapd in /usr/local/etc, creating a symlink from
	   /etc/imapd to /usr/local/etc/imapd and a link from /etc/rimapd
	   to /etc/imapd

	4) Installing imapd as /etc/rimapd and having inetd call /etc/rimapd
	   for imap requests

None of these have worked as I expected.  Please, any help is
appreciated.  This is a SunOS 4.1.3 machine with /etc and
/usr/local/etc on separate partitions (if it matters).

Thank in advance,

/KS


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 14 01:15:09 1993
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Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 08:51:01 +0100 (BST)
From: Barry Cornelius <Barry.Cornelius@durham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Yet another question re rimapd...
To: Kari Sutela <sutela@utu.fi>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <93Dec14.094022eet.166072-4@utu.fi>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88-931125.9312140858.A8927-0100000@wansbeck.dur.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

> I know this has been asked and answered previously but, unfortunately,
> I wasn't paying attention at the time.  The problem is, I can't get
> the "rsh-like" rimpad mechnamism to work.  First of all, rsh works
> perfectly (I can rsh from my client to imapd server no problem).
> However, no matter what I try, pine still asks me for password when I
> use the imapd INBOX.
> ...

Even if you have got the rimapd mechanism set up correctly, you may be
asked for your password.  Usually it is one of the following: 

(a) Your .cshrc file does output to the screen, e.g., it uses the
    echo command.  You will need to remove the appropriate lines 
    from the .cshrc file.

(b) Your .cshrc file contains a use of the Unix command stty.
    Probably you can move the stty command to your .login file.

--
Barry Cornelius                            Durham (091 or +44 91) 374 4717
Information Technology Service,                IT Service Office: 374 2892
University of Durham, Durham.                                Fax: 374 3741
DH1 3LE, UK                           E-mail: Barry.Cornelius@durham.ac.uk



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 14 06:41:43 1993
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Date: 	Tue, 14 Dec 1993 16:26:08 +0200
From: Kari Sutela <sutela@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: Yet another question re rimapd...
To: Barry Cornelius <Barry.Cornelius@durham.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88-931125.9312140858.A8927-0100000@wansbeck.dur.ac.uk>
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Thanks, but I don't think it's either of the reasons you mentioned 
(.cshrc outputting to screen or .cshrc containing a stty command).  For 
example:

polaris> rsh mailhost echo "Hi there" 
Hi there
polaris>

No extra output as you can see.  There's no stty in my .bashrc (we use 
bash here), either.  I don't know if it matters but our rshd and rlogind 
are filtered by the tcp wrapper set so that only few hosts can make an 
rsh or rlogin connection to out mail host (my client can, of course).

I'm baffled.

/KS



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 14 07:46:42 1993
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Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 10:20:20 -0500 (EST)
From: "Carolynn Seeley ( Spring )" <cseeley@offsv1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: Upgrading 3.88 on SGI 
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Cc: Brian Beckberger <brian@offsv1.cis.mcmaster.ca>,
        Muriel McKay <mckay@offsv1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312141004.F13846-0100000@offsv1>
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I am trying to build 3.88 on our SGI running IRIX V3, Release 4.0.5 and I 
am getting the following errors:

  %build sgi
  make args are "CC=cc"
  
  Making c-client library and mtest
  Make:  Don't know hot to make os_sgi.h.  Stop.

  Making Imapd
          cd ../c-client;make
  Make:  Don't know how to make os_sgi.h.  Stop.
  *** Error code 1

  Stop.


Does Anyone have any suggestions that could help me with this?

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carolynn Seeley (Spring)             email:  cseeley@mcmaster.ca
Consultant, Desktop Support                  cseeley@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca
Computing and Information Services     
McMaster University, JHE-122
Hamilton, Ontario CANADA        (905) 525-9140              x27090     
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 14 08:19:08 1993
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Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 08:06:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: Re: Yet another question re rimapd...
To: Kari Sutela <sutela@utu.fi>
Cc: Barry Cornelius <Barry.Cornelius@durham.ac.uk>,
        pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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What happens when you do
	rsh mailhost /etc/rimapd



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 14 08:47:17 1993
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Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 08:39:27 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Upgrading 3.88 on SGI 
To: "Carolynn Seeley ( Spring )" <cseeley@offsv1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu,
        Brian Beckberger <brian@offsv1.cis.mcmaster.ca>,
        Muriel McKay <mckay@offsv1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312141004.F13846-0100000@offsv1>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.90.9312140803.G19375-0100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Carolynn,

Unfortunately, the c-client OS-dependent files somehow got left out of 
the Pine 3.88 distribution.  They have been replaced in the Pine 3.89 
distribution.  If you still have problems, let us know!

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Tue, 14 Dec 1993, Carolynn Seeley ( Spring ) wrote:

> 
> I am trying to build 3.88 on our SGI running IRIX V3, Release 4.0.5 and I 
> am getting the following errors:
> 
>   %build sgi
>   make args are "CC=cc"
>   
>   Making c-client library and mtest
>   Make:  Don't know hot to make os_sgi.h.  Stop.
> 
>   Making Imapd
>           cd ../c-client;make
>   Make:  Don't know how to make os_sgi.h.  Stop.
>   *** Error code 1
> 
>   Stop.
> 
> 
> Does Anyone have any suggestions that could help me with this?
> 
> -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Carolynn Seeley (Spring)             email:  cseeley@mcmaster.ca
> Consultant, Desktop Support                  cseeley@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca
> Computing and Information Services     
> McMaster University, JHE-122
> Hamilton, Ontario CANADA        (905) 525-9140              x27090     
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 14 09:02:01 1993
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	Tue, 14 Dec 93 11:58:10 -0500
Date: Tue, 14 Dec 1993 11:58:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Mike Cote <mcote@julian.uwo.ca>
Subject: Re: Upgrading 3.88 on SGI 
To: "Carolynn Seeley ( Spring )" <cseeley@offsv1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu,
        Brian Beckberger <brian@offsv1.cis.mcmaster.ca>,
        Muriel McKay <mckay@offsv1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312141004.F13846-0100000@offsv1>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 14 Dec 1993, Carolynn Seeley ( Spring ) wrote:

> 
> I am trying to build 3.88 on our SGI running IRIX V3, Release 4.0.5 and I 
> am getting the following errors:
> 
[... deleted ...]
> 
> Does Anyone have any suggestions that could help me with this?

I ran into the same thing.  I found that there were a couple of files
missing:  pine3.88/imap/non-ANSI/c-client/os_sgi.c (and .h).  I copied the
3.87 ones over; they seemed to work fine. 

-----------
Mike Cote					<mcote@julian.uwo.ca>
Information Technology Services (ITS)
University of Western Ontario		    Phone: (519) 661-2151,  X 6048
London, Ontario Canada



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 14 09:23:24 1993
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Date: 	Tue, 14 Dec 1993 19:21:24 +0200
From: Kari Sutela <sutela@utu.fi>
Subject: Re: Yet another question re rimapd...
To: Mark Crispin <MRC@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <MailManager.755885187.6949.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
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> What happens when you do
> 	rsh mailhost /etc/rimapd

Yep, that was it.  I got "/etc/rimapd: permission denied".  I had 
installed imapd with mode 700 (the owner was root).  Inetd calls imapd as 
root so there was no problem until I tried the rimapd mechanism.  
Now its mode is 755 and everything runs perfectly.  Thanks!

/KS



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec 15 08:48:57 1993
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Date: 	Wed, 15 Dec 1993 12:16:07 -0700
From: Steve Hole <steve@edm.isac.ca>
Subject: Re: address book format
To: Laurie Cuthbert <L.G.Cuthbert@qmw.ac.uk>
Cc: ecs-info@edm.isac.ca, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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On Fri, 10 Dec 1993 11:44:45 -0700 Laurie Cuthbert wrote:

> From: Laurie Cuthbert
> Date: Fri, 10 Dec 1993 11:44:45 -0700
> Subject: address book format
> To: ecs-info@edm.isac.ca, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
> 
> To my understanding, the only difference between the format 
> used by ECS mail and by pine's normal orperation is that the 
> order of first name / last name is reversed, and that pine 
> uses a comma to separate the last name and first name.

Really, this is a weakness in ECSMail Laurie.  ECSMail was very literal
in its interpretation of the "fullname" field of the address book.  If 
there was a "," embedded in the name, then it would wrap in quotes.   
Beyond that, it would do no processing of the full name. 

We have recently added the functionality to rewrite the fullname 
field into something that is RFC822 compliant.   If the fullname 
field contains a "," then we assume that it is in the form:

  surname, firstname

and paste it into the address field as:

  firstname surname

If any non-RFC822 compliant characters show up in the fullname field, 
then we automatically wrap the fullname in "".   

Please note that the address book format used by ECSMail will change
in the next version of ECSMail.   The format that we use now is far to
restricting in terms of content and functionality to continue with.  
We will provide a utility to convert the contents of your old address
book to the new form.   

We will make evey effort to try to maintain compatibility with Pine in 
this.   As the new format will be based on support for IMSP, we should
be able to do this.  

Cheers.

--
Steve Hole  		        ECS Technical Manager
ISA Corporation			mail:  Steve.Hole@Edm.ISAC.CA
Suite 835, 10040 - 104 St.      phone: (403) 420-8081
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada       fax:   (403) 420-8037
T5J 0Z2






From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec 16 13:18:36 1993
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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 17:38:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Subject: Printing on Mac
To: Pine Info Group <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312161717.A5689-0100000@ultrix.uor.edu>
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Hi, Pine Experts:

Some of my Mac users use NCSA telnet to login to the ultrix system to use
pine.  But they can't print their messages.  I have tried to add the line
"capfile=PRN"  to the config.tel according to the Technical Notes.  It
didn't work. 

It also said on the Note to use a utility called ansiprt to get printout. 
It didn't say exactly how.  By wild guess, I compile the ansiprt.c and use
ansiprt.o to replace the printe command on the setup number 3. It didn't 
work either.

Could anybody tell me how to make it work?  Any help would be greately 
appreciated!!

I had asked questions in this group before, and got a lot of helpful 
responses.  I just want to say thank to all of you.



Sharon Deng
Assistant Director			Internet: deng@ultrix.uor.edu
Academic Computer Center			  deng@jccvms.uor.edu
University of Redlands			   Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec 16 16:09:21 1993
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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 20:36:38 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Printing on Mac
To: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Cc: Pine Info Group <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312161717.A5689-0100000@ultrix.uor.edu>
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Sharon,
I'm not sure that even the latest standard NCSA telnet correctly supports
ANSI escape sequences for printing, but there is a UW-modified version (2.5)
available on ftp.cac.washington.edu in /ncsa/mac/beta/Telnet2.5W-B3.bin

You don't need ansiprt for normal ascii printing, just use the built-in
"attached-to-ansi" option, but it is handy if you want to setup a custom
printing pipeline such as "enscript | ansiprt" for dealing with postscript
attachments. 

-teg

On Thu, 16 Dec 1993, Sharon Deng wrote:

> 
> Hi, Pine Experts:
> 
> Some of my Mac users use NCSA telnet to login to the ultrix system to use
> pine.  But they can't print their messages.  I have tried to add the line
> "capfile=PRN"  to the config.tel according to the Technical Notes.  It
> didn't work. 
> 
> It also said on the Note to use a utility called ansiprt to get printout. 
> It didn't say exactly how.  By wild guess, I compile the ansiprt.c and use
> ansiprt.o to replace the printe command on the setup number 3. It didn't 
> work either.
> 
> Could anybody tell me how to make it work?  Any help would be greately 
> appreciated!!
> 
> I had asked questions in this group before, and got a lot of helpful 
> responses.  I just want to say thank to all of you.
> 
> 
> 
> Sharon Deng
> Assistant Director			Internet: deng@ultrix.uor.edu
> Academic Computer Center			  deng@jccvms.uor.edu
> University of Redlands			   Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec 16 19:05:49 1993
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Date: Thu, 16 Dec 1993 23:40:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Sharon Deng <deng@ultrix.uor.edu>
Subject: Re: Printing on Mac
To: Pine Info Group <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <199312170239.SAA13412@chekov.biostat.washington.edu>
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On Thu, 16 Dec 1993, Dave Fetrow wrote:

> > 
> > 
> > Hi, Pine Experts:
> > 
> > It also said on the Note to use a utility called ansiprt to get printout. 
> > It didn't say exactly how.  By wild guess, I compile the ansiprt.c and use
> > ansiprt.o to replace the printe command on the setup number 3. It didn't 
> > work either.
> 
>  ansiprt.o is just the relocatable code pre-linked. You need to rename
> a.out to ansiprt and try using that.
> 
> -- 
>    -dave     fetrow-		INTERNET:	fetrow@biostat.washington.edu
>    FAX: 206-543-3286		BITNET:		fetrow@uwalocke
> 
> 
Yes, I just forgot to say that the ansiprt.o was renamed from a.out 
after I compiled the ansiprt.c.  It didn't have ansiprt.o in the utils 
directory before I did the compile.


Sharon Deng
Assistant Director			Internet: deng@ultrix.uor.edu
Academic Computer Center			  deng@jccvms.uor.edu
University of Redlands			   Phone: (909)793-2121 x.4963



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 17 01:51:49 1993
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Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 15:39:20 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Subject: Attaching mails
To: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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I might have missed something in the use of pine; Let's say I want to 
create a new mail and attach/append  1 or 2 existing mails stored in 
other folders. Do I need to extract those mails in a file and then read 
them from pine (^R) or there is an existing shorter way to do that ?. 


/francois
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital Equipment SARL		|			   |
950 Route des Colles - BP 027	|      Francois Donze	   |
06901 SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS		|--------------------------|francois donze@VBO
	FRANCE			|			   |  ULYSSE::DONZE
 Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 		|E-mail: donze@vbo.dec.com |  DTN: 828-5481
 Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34		|			   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 17 03:06:30 1993
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From: dimou@dxcoms.cern.ch (M. Dimou-Zacharova)
Message-Id: <9312171537.AA17888@dxcoms.cern.ch>
Subject: Pine crash for vt100
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 16:37:52 +0100 (MET)
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Dear All,
Best wishes for Xmas and New Year. One of my users reports the following
for pine 3.07 running on Ultrix 4.3.
If the solution comes with 3.88, which I have installed
on another platform, please, let me know to accellerate the upgrade.
Thanks
 -maria

> When running pine with
> 	setenv TERM vt100
> 	stty rows 50
> I got a "Trace/BPT trap" message, a messed up screen
> a shell probpt and a locked terminal.
> 
> I later tried pine.old but it doesn't seem to exist.
> Fortunately, pine works if I leave stty size as 0 0.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 17 03:41:30 1993
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Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 08:40:35 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Attaching mails
To: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Cc: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312171512.D18218-0100000@nova15.vbo.dec.com>
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Francois,

To attach a single message, you can set feature-list=forward-as-mime in 
your .pinerc file and forward the message.  We do not currently have a 
mechanism for two messages, but it is coming soon (same folder only).

Happy Holidays!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 17 Dec 1993, Francois Donze wrote:

> I might have missed something in the use of pine; Let's say I want to 
> create a new mail and attach/append  1 or 2 existing mails stored in 
> other folders. Do I need to extract those mails in a file and then read 
> them from pine (^R) or there is an existing shorter way to do that ?. 
> 
> 
> /francois
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Digital Equipment SARL		|			   |
> 950 Route des Colles - BP 027	|      Francois Donze	   |
> 06901 SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS		|--------------------------|francois donze@VBO
> 	FRANCE			|			   |  ULYSSE::DONZE
>  Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 		|E-mail: donze@vbo.dec.com |  DTN: 828-5481
>  Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34		|			   |
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 17 03:54:52 1993
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Date: Fri, 17 Dec 1993 09:14:26 -0800 (PST)
From: David L Miller <dlm@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Pine crash for vt100
To: Maria.Dimou@cern.ch
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <9312171537.AA17888@dxcoms.cern.ch>
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Maria,

Pine 3.07 had a problem with setting rows but not columns or vice versa.  
Setting "stty rows 50 cols 80" should work around that.  The problem is 
fixed in the current Pine 3.89.  

Thanks for the report!

--DLM

|\ |  |\/|  David L. Miller    dlm@cac.washington.edu  (206) 685-6240
|/ |_ |  |  Software Engineer, Pine Development Team   (206) 685-4045 (FAX)
University of Washington, Networks & Distributed Computing
4545 15th Ave NE, Seattle WA 98105, USA

On Fri, 17 Dec 1993, M. Dimou-Zacharova wrote:

> Dear All,
> Best wishes for Xmas and New Year. One of my users reports the following
> for pine 3.07 running on Ultrix 4.3.
> If the solution comes with 3.88, which I have installed
> on another platform, please, let me know to accellerate the upgrade.
> Thanks
>  -maria
> 
> > When running pine with
> > 	setenv TERM vt100
> > 	stty rows 50
> > I got a "Trace/BPT trap" message, a messed up screen
> > a shell probpt and a locked terminal.
> > 
> > I later tried pine.old but it doesn't seem to exist.
> > Fortunately, pine works if I leave stty size as 0 0.
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 20 06:14:15 1993
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 14:09:57 GMT
From: Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Wish List
To: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
X-Sender: bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk
Message-Id: <PCPine_p.3.89.9312201449.A7039-0100000@[131.111.10.53]>
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I use PINE from work, where I have ethernet access, and from home where I 
am limited to asynchronous dialup (2400 baud at present). At work, I use 
PC-PINE; at home I dial-up to a unix system and use pine on that 
machine (which is the server for my PC-PINE). There are two wish list 
items related to this:

a) Something I have wanted for a long time is the ability to access the 
folders with no remote connection. That way I could download my folders 
to the PC, do some tidying in spare moments at home, and later upload 
them again.

b) An interface to understand the asynchronous protocol, without 
requiring SLIP (or PPP). Eudora (a POP based package) has something 
called SRIALPOP (SeRIAL POP) which allows the use of Eudora over a phone 
line, I think by 'converting' the serial interface into IP.
This will still be important (even more important?) when the other wish 
list item (efficient use of slow lines) is implemented (which I assume 
will work in POP like fashion, downloading INBOX etc to the PC, and later 
on uploading constructed messages).


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy                        Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development    Direct line:        +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site                   Email:Barry.Landy@ucs.cam.ac.uk
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 20 08:06:04 1993
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 16:17:10 +0000 (GMT)
From: NoRM <ae103@city.ac.uk>
Subject: Wish List!
To: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312201659.A4706-0100000@Victoria>
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    Well, there's only one real behavioural change I'd like to see made:
changing delete-skips-deleted to skip-deleted.
    It's all very well skipping other deleted messages when pressing D, 
but I'd like it to skip COMPLETELY a deleted message. After all, it's 
marked for deletion, meaning I have no further use for it!
    The only real problem is: What if you want to un-delete something 
you've deleted ? Simple, you Jump to it. You could mimic Elm's shift-N 
and shift-P to force one previous... but it's abit extraneous.

    Other than that, there's not much I would like to see done, except 
perhaps deciding once and for all what prYnt is!

	N.

  .--------{ NoRM : norm@city.ac.uk }---{ Ex-student and layabout }--------.
  | "...should never say 'I don't believe.' The extraordinary's the norm." |
  |              'The Great and Secret Show' by Clive Barker.              |
  `                                                                        '



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 20 08:38:42 1993
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 16:51:36 +0000 (GMT)
From: David Brownlee <D.K.Brownlee@city.ac.uk>
Subject: Suggestion 'real-mail-name'
To: Pine-Info Maillist <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312201619.A27556-0100000@Hove>
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	Our mailer here changes the headers so that users never see their
	login name on mail headers - my 'sh391' gets changed to 'D.K.Brownlee'.

	The downside with pine is that I never get any '+'s in my inbox, and
	when replying I *always* get asked about multiple recipients (as it
	doesn't know who I really am :)

	Could a 'real-mail-name' or similar be added to the pinerc options?

		David


       D.K.Brownlee@city.ac.uk. Network Analyst. Postmaster. Hostmaster.
         <_.-^-._>  Telephone: (+44) 71 477 8000 Ext:3757.  <_.-^-._>
 Snailmail:E308, City University, Northampton Sq, Islington, London EC1V 0HB.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 20 10:24:24 1993
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 11:06:27 -0800 (PST)
From: Elmar Kurgpold <ekurgpol@Law.USC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Suggestion 'real-mail-name'
To: David Brownlee <D.K.Brownlee@city.ac.uk>
Cc: Pine-Info Maillist <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312201619.A27556-0100000@Hove>
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This may be a good thing, but I would suggest implementing it as a list. 
My login name is "ekurgpol", following the Sun tradition of 8-letter names
with first initial and last name.  But since the last letter of my name is
truncated, I have an alias as "ekurgpold" for those who suffer a lapse and
have trouble counting to 8.  Of course, my colleagues which use this
longer form cause me slight headaches when I attempt to respond (ie, no
`+' in the index screen, and I get asked if I want to respond to myself). 
Not a big deal, but this would be a nice expert option. 

-------------------------------------         ,-,,-,   __
| Elmar Kurgpold                    |  ______/     /_,'  |
| Network Administrator             |  \________________/
| University of Southern California |       |<) (> |
| The Law Center                    |    (  | oo   |
| ekurgpol@Law.USC.EDU              |     ) `|  |--'
| (213)740-2571 FAX: (213)740-5502  |    (___^^^^|
-------------------------------------       (____'


On Mon, 20 Dec 1993, David Brownlee wrote:

> 	Our mailer here changes the headers so that users never see their
> 	login name on mail headers - my 'sh391' gets changed to 'D.K.Brownlee'.
> 
> 	The downside with pine is that I never get any '+'s in my inbox, and
> 	when replying I *always* get asked about multiple recipients (as it
> 	doesn't know who I really am :)
> 
> 	Could a 'real-mail-name' or similar be added to the pinerc options?
> 
> 		David
> 
> 
>        D.K.Brownlee@city.ac.uk. Network Analyst. Postmaster. Hostmaster.
>          <_.-^-._>  Telephone: (+44) 71 477 8000 Ext:3757.  <_.-^-._>
>  Snailmail:E308, City University, Northampton Sq, Islington, London EC1V 0HB.
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 20 11:45:00 1993
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Message-Id: <199312202104.QAA13457@Synergytics.Com>
Reply-To: Marc@Synergytics.Com
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Subject: GUI front-end for pine?
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 17:04:23 -0400
From: Marc Evans - Contract Software Hacker <marc@Synergytics.Com>

Hi -

I just joined this list and therefore I don't know if this has been (or is 
being) discussed already. What I am wondering is if anyone has considered, 
started, or even completed code that would provide a GUI front-end to pine? 
Ideally, I prefer a Tk or Motif (possibly using wafe?) based GUI, but anything 
is of interrest.

Thanks in advance - Marc
/| -----------------------.         ~      .                    ~
X|=|    Marc N. Evans     |------------------.       ~                .
X| | Software Consultant  |   Synergytics    |-------------------------------.
X| | Marc@Synergytics.Com |  21 Hinds Lane   | Specializing in:              |
X| |   (603) 635-3857     | Pelham, NH, USA  | - Unix internals/applications |
X|=|______________________|    03076-3013    | - X11 internals/applications  |
X|                      (____________________|                               |
X|                                         (_________________________________|
X|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 20 12:29:43 1993
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 15:36:38 -0600 (CST)
From: Ken Hardy <ken@bridge.COM>
Subject: Re: GUI front-end for pine?
To: Marc Evans - Contract Software Hacker <Synergytics.Com!marc@bridge.COM>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <199312202104.QAA13457@Synergytics.Com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.85.9312201538.A9821-0100000@bert>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Pine is a front-end for the mail system.  If you're talking about writing a
_new_ user front-end, you're talking about replacing Pine, not augmenting it. 
That's not necessarily a Bad Thing.  Pine's UI is great for character-based
interfaces; a GUI mail interface that supports Pine's philosophy, and
supports MIME, IMAP, and Pine's addressbook format, etc., could be a Good
Thing for those who prefer GUI UIs.  But it wouldn't be Pine. 

I noticed your signature; when will you have this ready for us?  ;-)

On Mon, 20 Dec 1993, Marc Evans - Contract Software Hacker wrote:

> Hi -
> 
> I just joined this list and therefore I don't know if this has been (or is 
> being) discussed already. What I am wondering is if anyone has considered, 
> started, or even completed code that would provide a GUI front-end to pine? 
> Ideally, I prefer a Tk or Motif (possibly using wafe?) based GUI, but anything 
> is of interrest.
> 
> Thanks in advance - Marc
> /| -----------------------.         ~      .                    ~
> X|=|    Marc N. Evans     |------------------.       ~                .
> X| | Software Consultant  |   Synergytics    |-------------------------------.
> X| | Marc@Synergytics.Com |  21 Hinds Lane   | Specializing in:              |
> X| |   (603) 635-3857     | Pelham, NH, USA  | - Unix internals/applications |
> X|=|______________________|    03076-3013    | - X11 internals/applications  |
> X|                      (____________________|                               |
> X|                                         (_________________________________|
> X|
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 


Ken Hardy
ken@bridge.com  (racerx!ken) --__-_____--__-__--_--__-___-__-__-___----




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 20 12:38:03 1993
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Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 17:02:35 -0500
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To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
From: norm@helix.nih.gov (Norm Friedman)

 Help--
In the help file, "The "enable-jump-shortcut" option allows you to enter
message  numbers without typing the "J" comand.
Also the "Delete-skips-deleted" changes---

When I go to "S" for set up and go to o for options, I get a message that
no options are available.  How do I get the above into my command list,
especially the enable-jump-shortcut?

Thanks
norm@helix.nih.gov



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Dec 20 12:38:06 1993
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Reply-To: Marc@Synergytics.Com
To: Ken Hardy <racerx!ken@uunet.UU.NET>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Subject: Re: GUI front-end for pine? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 20 Dec 1993 15:36:38 MDT."
             <Pine.3.85.9312201538.A9821-0100000@bert> 
Date: Mon, 20 Dec 1993 18:03:50 -0400
From: Marc Evans - Contract Software Hacker <marc@Synergytics.Com>

>Pine is a front-end for the mail system.  If you're talking about writing a
>_new_ user front-end, you're talking about replacing Pine, not augmenting it. 
>That's not necessarily a Bad Thing.  Pine's UI is great for character-based
>interfaces; a GUI mail interface that supports Pine's philosophy, and
>supports MIME, IMAP, and Pine's addressbook format, etc., could be a Good
>Thing for those who prefer GUI UIs.  But it wouldn't be Pine. 
>
>I noticed your signature; when will you have this ready for us?  ;-)

Well, now that you have essentially confirmed for me that a GUI-pine is not in 
progress or existence, I will probably start cscope'ing the sources and try to 
determine how cleanly this could be done. My goal would be to provide a seperate 
directory which provides the GUI front-end while continuing to use the existing 
pine back-end code. At first glance it would appear that the code layout is well 
auited for this, because the *action* routines appear to be well seperated from 
the *UI* routines...

And yes, of course anything I create will be made available to the Internet 
community at large, but no promises as to when (yet).

[[ As a side note, the other option I am looking at is to modify Mosaic to use 
additional URL hooks, such as NNTP, IMAP, and maybe even something like MH. I 
don't have as good a grasp on what's involved in this direction, but it sorta 
feels like a more natural direction to go in (think about a MIME message which 
bursts into HTML). ]]

Another question I have which somebody on this list may be able to provide an 
answer to is -- Does anyone know if there is any planning for NNTP messages to 
be able to be MIME based. From what I can tell, this wouldn't be very 
difficult...

Thanks - Marc
/| -----------------------.         ~      .                    ~
X|=|    Marc N. Evans     |------------------.       ~                .
X| | Software Consultant  |   Synergytics    |-------------------------------.
X| | Marc@Synergytics.Com |  21 Hinds Lane   | Specializing in:              |
X| |   (603) 635-3857     | Pelham, NH, USA  | - Unix internals/applications |
X|=|______________________|    03076-3013    | - X11 internals/applications  |
X|                      (____________________|                               |
X|                                         (_________________________________|
X|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 21 00:55:50 1993
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 11:11:20 +0200
From: "Viviane Vermeire" <Viviane.Vermeire@rug.ac.be>
Message-Id: <40281.vvermeir@nessy>
To: <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Fw: bug in new Pine


Just installed pine3.89 from pine-bin.solaris and got the following messages
from a user:


just found out that you have a new version of Pine, which is not
bug-free! ;-)))

Bug in Pine detected: "Received abort signal".
Exiting pine.

${HOME:-}/.profile[11]: 4093 Abort[coredump]

For this user pine is starte form .profile as pine -i -sort date

If .pine-debug files and core are need, tell to who I must send them.

regards,

Viviane.
__
  Viviane.Vermeire@rug.ac.be      postmaster@allserv.rug.ac.be
  tel. 32-(0)9-2644738            ARC, Universiteit Gent
  fax. 32-(0)9-2644994            Krijgslaan 281, S9  B9000 Gent


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 21 01:08:08 1993
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 10:00:15 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
Subject: Status flags
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.88.9312210956.A10851-0100000@suma3>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 479

I like the 'A' flag for answered mail. Like most though, if I keep such 
messages after answering them, it will be in another folder - but the 
flag then gets lost. Is preserving the flag value when saving a feature 
in the pipeline?

Mike

==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,                          Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF                Fax: 0734 753094



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 21 03:54:46 1993
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Date: 	Tue, 21 Dec 1993 14:58:58 +0200
From: Kari Sutela <sutela@utu.fi>
Subject: QUOTED-PRINTABLE and line breaks.
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312211408.A13688-0100000@castor.cc.utu.fi>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII


Hi,

Our VMS-administrator complains that the MIME-compatible 
VMS-EMAIL-program won't properly display pine-generated messages.  He 
says, that if the content-transfer-encoding says quoted-printable, then 
all linebreaks should be represented by the CRLF pair.  I took a quick 
peek at the MIME rfc and I'm beginning to think that he's right.

Now it seems that pine does not change line breaks into CRLF pairs.  Does 
pine behave according to MIME spec in this respect?  Have we 
misunderstood the MIME rfc?  Are there any fixes?

Thanks in advance,

/KS



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 21 06:00:00 1993
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 15:15:01 GMT
From: Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: your mail
To: Norm Friedman <norm@helix.nih.gov>
Cc: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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On Mon, 20 Dec 1993, Norm Friedman wrote:

>  Help--
> In the help file, "The "enable-jump-shortcut" option allows you to enter
> message  numbers without typing the "J" comand.
> Also the "Delete-skips-deleted" changes---
> 
> When I go to "S" for set up and go to o for options, I get a message that
> no options are available.  How do I get the above into my command list,
> especially the enable-jump-shortcut?
> 
You just edit the PINERC file (.pinerc on unix)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy                        Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development    Direct line:        +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site                   Email:Barry.Landy@ucs.cam.ac.uk
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 21 06:01:26 1993
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 15:09:43 GMT
From: Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Wish List (follow up)
To: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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Re my previous note, I should have said that to me the SRIALPOP-like 
async connection (IP without SLIP) is far and away the most valuable 
thing that could be done to PINE right now. We have lots of people who do 
not have IP access and they have to login to the server to get their 
mail, which places a much higher load on it than we would like.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy                        Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development    Direct line:        +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site                   Email:Barry.Landy@ucs.cam.ac.uk
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 21 06:02:37 1993
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 15:17:25 GMT
From: Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: GUI front-end for pine?
To: Marc Evans - Contract Software Hacker <marc@Synergytics.Com>
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While there is no "GUI front end for PINE" there are GUI (or partially 
GUI!) IMAP implementations, so the cupboard is not empty.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy                        Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development    Direct line:        +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site                   Email:Barry.Landy@ucs.cam.ac.uk
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 21 08:00:25 1993
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	id AA756505966 Tue, 21 Dec 93 12:32:46 EST
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 93 12:32:46 EST
From: "Bruce Lilly" <lillyb@ccmail.nhq.sony.com>
Message-Id: <9311217565.AA756505966@ccmail.nhq.sony.com>
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Wish List (follow up)


Barry Landy wrote:
:Re my previous note, I should have said that to me the SRIALPOP-like 
:async connection (IP without SLIP) is far and away the most valuable 
:thing that could be done to PINE right now. We have lots of people who 
:do not have IP access and they have to login to the server to get their 
:mail, which places a much higher load on it than we would like.

Why IP?  IMAP2bis protocol is ordinary text; there's no need to encapsulate that
text in IP packets.  The client can communicate with the IMAP2bis server 
directly over the serial line (the client machine should have a function like 
poll() or select() for optimal handling of user input as well as communication 
with the server).  Indeed, you can (with an IMAP2bis protocol document handy, 
unless you're accustomed to speaking with a LISP :-)) directly run /etc/rimapd, 
speaking IMAP2bis (admittedly it's highly user-hostile).




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 21 08:06:57 1993
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 17:46:59 GMT
From: Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Wish List (follow up)
To: Bruce Lilly <lillyb@ccmail.nhq.sony.com>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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On Tue, 21 Dec 1993, Bruce Lilly wrote:

> 
> Barry Landy wrote:
> :Re my previous note, I should have said that to me the SRIALPOP-like 
> :async connection (IP without SLIP) is far and away the most valuable 
> :thing that could be done to PINE right now. We have lots of people who 
> :do not have IP access and they have to login to the server to get their 
> :mail, which places a much higher load on it than we would like.
> 
> Why IP?  IMAP2bis protocol is ordinary text; there's no need to encapsulate that
> text in IP packets.  The client can communicate with the IMAP2bis server 
> directly over the serial line (the client machine should have a function like 
> poll() or select() for optimal handling of user input as well as communication 
> with the server).  Indeed, you can (with an IMAP2bis protocol document handy, 
> unless you're accustomed to speaking with a LISP :-)) directly run /etc/rimapd, 
> speaking IMAP2bis (admittedly it's highly user-hostile).
> 
Perhaps I did not make myself sufficiently clear. My users wish to use 
PINE, ideally in client server mode. At present the only communications 
that PCPINE speaks is IP; I am asking for an extension of that.
The only way to connect via async at present is to dial in to a server 
system, and login there (using vt100, which PINE also insists on).


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy                        Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development    Direct line:        +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site                   Email:Barry.Landy@ucs.cam.ac.uk
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 21 08:39:37 1993
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 18:30:31 GMT
From: Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Wish List (follow up)
To: Bruce Lilly <lillyb@ccmail.nhq.sony.com>
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On Tue, 21 Dec 1993, Bruce Lilly wrote:

> Why IP?  IMAP2bis protocol is ordinary text; there's no need to encapsulate that
> text in IP packets.  The client can communicate with the IMAP2bis server 

On re-reading, I think I understand. What I am asking for is an async 
access - I dont care how it is implemented! If IMAP can be accessed via 
an async driver, that's fine by me!

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Barry Landy                        Computer Laboratory:+44 223 334600
Head of Systems and Development    Direct line:        +44 223 334713
University of Cambridge Computing Service
New Museums Site                   Email:Barry.Landy@ucs.cam.ac.uk
Pembroke Street, Cambridge CB2 3QG



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 21 13:23:36 1993
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 13:05:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: Re: Wish List (follow up)
To: Bruce Lilly <lillyb@ccmail.nhq.sony.com>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, Barry Landy <bl10@cus.cam.ac.uk>
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On Tue, 21 Dec 93 12:32:46 EST, Bruce Lilly wrote:
> IMAP2bis protocol is ordinary text; there's no need to encapsulate that
> text in IP packets.  The client can communicate with the IMAP2bis server
> directly over the serial line

Yes, but the link should be reliable -- that is, with error correction and
flow control.  A simple serial link won't do it; hence some sort of
packetizing is needed.

It can, however, be more lightweight than full SLIP/IP/TCP.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Dec 21 18:54:08 1993
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Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1993 19:08:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Status flags
To: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.88.9312210956.A10851-0100000@suma3>
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Mike,
Preserving flags on append is definitely coming.  (This behavior will be 
part of the next IMAP spec, and it's a high priority for us, too.)

-teg

On Tue, 21 Dec 1993, Mike Roch wrote:

> I like the 'A' flag for answered mail. Like most though, if I keep such 
> messages after answering them, it will be in another folder - but the 
> flag then gets lost. Is preserving the flag value when saving a feature 
> in the pipeline?
> 
> Mike
> 
> ==============================================================================
> Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,                          Tel: 0734 318430
> The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AF                Fax: 0734 753094
> 
> 


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec 22 05:51:37 1993
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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 06:35:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <mramey@u.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Mike Ramey <mramey@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Save-with-edit ?
To: Pine-Info Email List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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Sometimes I would like to edit a message when I Save/Export/prYnt it.
For example, someone replies to my email and included my entire original 
message -- even tho' their reply is to only one item.
This feature would be enabled via the .pinerc file.
Suggested dialog:
  S[ave]   or   E[xport]   or   Y[prYnt]   ...
  Edit? (y/n/^C) [N]
If 'y', go to pico before executing Save/Export/prYnt.
-mr


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec 22 06:31:16 1993
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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 10:19:12 -0500 (EST)
From: "Tami L. Salz" <salz@bu.edu>
Reply-To: "Tami L. Salz" <salz@bu.edu>
Subject: Pine using tvi925 emulation
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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Hi,

We have some users with Wyse dumb terminals with tvi925 emulation 
who would like to use Pine. They are getting the message from Pine that 
tvi925 aren't known.  

"Terminal type "tvi925", is unknown"

tvi925 is the only emulation that these (old) terminals 
are capable of.

Anyone have any suggestions, or will this just not work. 

thanks,


Tami Salz                          phone:     (617) 353-2780
Analyst/Consultant III                     or (617) 353-7272
Boston University                  e-mail:    salz@bu.edu










From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec 22 08:44:05 1993
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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 11:28:30 -0500
Message-Id: <199312221628.LAA15903@helix.nih.gov>
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
From: norm@helix.nih.gov (Norm Friedman)
Subject: Help

Hello,
Would some kind person please try to explain to me just how to go about
doing things in the pinerc file. For example how would I put in the
"enable-jump-shortcut" option to make it show up on my command menu.I don't
like to fool with things I do not know how to change, because I sometimes
cannot get back.
Also, is there a way to delete a number of messages all at once, say 1-20,
without going to each message.
Has anyone had experience printing directly from a Mac(SE) to a Stylewriter
II?

Thanks and replies to norm@helix.nih.gov
Thanks to all in advance.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec 22 09:10:52 1993
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To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
From: "Mark Thacker...CC1 LAN Manager"  <Thacker@cc1.unt.edu>
Organization: UNT Computing Center
Date:     22 Dec 1993 11:06:34 CST6CDT
Subject:  Mem/disk requirements for large IMAP server?
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail/Mac v2.02
Message-Id: <11AEC1C1D0E@cc1.unt.edu>

Hello all,

Has anyone done any estimating (or actual implementation) of an IMAP server 
for several thousand accounts?  We want to run 30K students on a single IMAP 
server and need estimates of disk size (yeah, I know, it depends on how many 
messages), memory requirements and CPU power with reference to a Sun based 
system if possible.

Our biggest concern is if someone sends a copy of a message to everyone on 
the system, are we going to get 30K individual messages?  I think the answer 
is yes.  So, we need estimates of disk size needed in a "live" system.

Any estimates or hard numbers for any existing system would be very useful.  
Thanks in advance for all of the help.


Mark




======================================================================
Mark Thacker                                     Bitnet : MARK@UNTVAX
Campus Wide Information System Coordinator      THENET : NTVAXA::MARK
Computing Center                           Internet : Thacker@unt.edu
University of North Texas, Denton, Texas  76203        (817) 565-2568
======================================================================


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec 22 14:20:11 1993
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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 17:05:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Yigal Rechtman <ymr6189@acf4.NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: Is there's pine on acfcluster? (fwd)
To: pinelist <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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Dear Pine Gurus: Is the info below correct?


>>Pine exists only for Unix and DOS.  There has been no indication that the 
>>Pine folks (at the University of Washington) plan to port it to VMS.

Thanks!

Yigal
ymr6189@acf4.nyu.edu



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Dec 22 23:36:12 1993
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Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1993 22:36:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: Mem/disk requirements for large IMAP server?
To: "Mark Thacker...CC1 LAN Manager" <Thacker@cc1.unt.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <11AEC1C1D0E@cc1.unt.edu>
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Hello -

     It is rather difficult to answer your question precisely, because it
depends upon so many different variables.

     One of our IMAP servers is a single DECSYSTEM-5000/200 with 120MB of RAM.
It typically runs loads of 160 simultaneous imapds without a hiccup.  The
users of this server typically use the standard UNIX format of mail which
reads the entire mailbox file into memory.  Alternative formats of mail such
as tenex or MTX are much less memory-hungry than the standard format but may
beat on the filesystem a bit more if you do a lot of free-text searches.

     It is difficult to judge how much disk space 30,000 users would need.  If
you assume that an ``average'' user uses 1MB (some people would call this
generous, others miserly), then we're talking about 30GB of disk.  I think
that this is quite a bit larger than will actually be needed (although note
we're talking about $1/user pricing for modern disks).

     In general, I feel that a set of smaller, less expensive servers is
better than an attempt to have a single monolithic server to handle an entire
university's mail load.  This is the case whether or not IMAP is in the
picture.  In general, you can put quite a few more IMAP servers on a machine
than you can put timesharing users running a mail reader and maintain a
satisfactory level of service.

     Another benefit of smaller servers is that it is much easier to scale
such systems, e.g. adding disk capacity or splitting an overloaded server in
two.  Means abound for allocating users to servers; departmental or other
administrative boundaries, first letter of name,...  A protocol called IMSP
under development at Carnegie-Mellon University (contact jgm+@CMU.EDU for more
information) will permit the automation of this procedure.

     I think that if you start out with a small set of servers (2-5), each
with a few GB of disk space on them and split the user community more or less
evenly between them, then you'll be able to monitor how usage consumption
rises.  You should be prepared to throw more disks (and, to a lesser extent,
more servers) at it with relatively short advance notice.

     A truism in the computing industry is that usage grows to meet and
eventually exceed available resources no matter how large the resources are.

     As for your question:
> Our biggest concern is if someone sends a copy of a message to everyone on
> the system, are we going to get 30K individual messages?
 This is a function of the format you choose to use for mail.  The mailbox
drivers provided with c-client (the underlying engine behind Pine, the IMAP
server, etc.) use individual copies of messages.  However, this does not
prevent one from writing a driver (such as was used in the European COM
system) which has one instance of a message on the disk for any number of
recipients.

     However, I don't think that ``a message to 30,000 users'' is going to
happen.  Many mail composition programs would collapse ungracefully if someone
attempts to send a message to 30,000 recipients.  This is a Good Thing; given
that a typical e-mail address is 25 or so characters, the header of such a
message would be nearly 750K bytes!  If the mail composition program does not
prevent it, generally it will not be long before the system administrator
observes the developing catastrophe and stop it (and then has a ``nice little
talk'' with the offender...).

     In general, such ``broadcast'' messages use netnews or some similar
bulletin board mechanism, which is designed for this purpose.

Regards,

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec 23 04:48:20 1993
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 16:27:49 +0300 (EETDST)
From: Ian Leiman <leiman@ntc.nokia.com>
Reply-To: Ian Leiman <leiman@ntc.nokia.com>
Subject: Re: GUI front-end for pine? 
To: Marc Evans - Contract Software Hacker <marc@Synergytics.Com>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <199312202203.RAA13635@Synergytics.Com>
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On Mon, 20 Dec 1993, Marc Evans - Contract Software Hacker wrote:
> 
> Well, now that you have essentially confirmed for me that a GUI-pine is not in 
> progress or existence, I will probably start cscope'ing the sources and try to 
> determine how cleanly this could be done. My goal would be to provide a seperate 
> directory which provides the GUI front-end while continuing to use the existing 
> pine back-end code. At first glance it would appear that the code layout is well 
> auited for this, because the *action* routines appear to be well seperated from 
> the *UI* routines...

Actually I have already started the work to 'upgrade' the PINE tty-UI
to Motif/Vue-based GUI on HP9000/730 platform. I have the GUI interface
itself completely ready, I built it with the Visual Edge Software's
uimx2.5 interface builder, that didn't take more than a few hours.

Now what remains is to unplug the tty-interface from the pine code and
plug the GUI instead. That is not an easy task and will probably take
several weeks to do (and I can do it only on spare time as a hobby). 

One problem is that, I also have to modify the c-client communications
to suit the XtAppMainLoop(), e.g. INBOX modifications must be observered
as Xt-callbacks.

There is a big difference in how a tty-based interface outputs stuff
on screen vs. an event-based GUI. The philosophy of building the code
is just completely different. A lot of modifications will be needed
to the pine code.

If I ever get a software release out of this, it will work for HP700's
only (HP/UX 9.01). The c-code generated by uimx2.5 relies a lot on HP's 
extensions.
With some extra work it can be modified to work on any platform with 
Motif 1.2 and X11R5. I don't see why a an xview-based (Suns) GUI shouldn't 
be easy to plug in instead of the Motif GUI, but somebody has to write 
the xview-code.

-- 
Ian Leiman, M.Sc.             phone +358 0 5104 4453, fax +358 0 5104 4764
Development Engineer          mail: TL2E, P.O. BOX 12, FIN-02611 Espoo, Finland
Data Communications           internet: IAN.LEIMAN@ntc.nokia.com
Transmission Systems          x400: C=FI,A=Elisa,or A=Mailnet,P=Nokia Telecom,
NOKIA Telecommunications            SUR=LEIMAN,GIV=IAN,(UNIT=DCO)
                              vaxuser: NTC01::LEIMAN, Elisa: LEIMAN IAN NTC




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec 23 05:38:34 1993
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 93 07:21:39 CST
From: "John Ladwig" <jladwig@soils.umn.edu>
Message-Id: <9312231321.AA29733@saturn.soils.umn.edu>
To: Mark Crispin <MRC@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: "Mark Thacker...CC1 LAN Manager" <Thacker@cc1.unt.edu>,
        pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Subject: re: Mem/disk requirements for large IMAP server?
In-Reply-To: Mark Crispin's message <MailManager.756628613.2774.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU> of 22 December 1993
References: <11AEC1C1D0E@cc1.unt.edu>
	<MailManager.756628613.2774.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>

>>>>> On Wed, 22 Dec 1993 22:36:53 -0800 (PST), Mark Crispin <MRC@cac.washington.edu> said:

    Mark> [...] It is difficult to judge how much disk space 30,000
    Mark> users would need.  

I don't have the figures, but consult@gold.tc.umn.edu would be able to
tell you how much space approximately 65000 *accounts* (last figure I
heard was 15-20% actively in-use accounts).  The University of
Minnesota in Fall Qtr 92 instituted campus-wide email, to the tune of
~110,000 users.  Eeek!  Can you say "geez, uid_t is only an unsigned
short, and it *matters* to us?"

    Mark> In general, I feel that a set of smaller, less expensive
    Mark> servers is better than an attempt to have a single
    Mark> monolithic server to handle an entire university's mail
    Mark> load.  

Last I heard, "gold.tc.umn.edu" was three Sparcstation 10s (don't know
the model) sitting behind a DNS shuffle record (local nameserver
hack), with their user directories AFS mounted from two RS/6000s,
chosen for their journalling filesystem.  I believe there's another
RS/6000 or Sparcstation in the pool somewhere as a sendmail delivery
agent.  Our other central mail "machine", maroon.tc.umn.edu is some
sort of large multi-processor CDC/EPX machine, and it takes 3/4 hour
to fsck the 4GB home partition if it has to reboot...  Maroon is
scheduled to be carved up into a model similar to gold early next
year.

    Mark> This is the case whether or not IMAP is in the picture.  In
    Mark> general, you can put quite a few more IMAP servers on a
    Mark> machine than you can put timesharing users running a mail
    Mark> reader and maintain a satisfactory level of service.

gold.tc.umn.edu is nominally a "student" "machine", and
maroon.tc.umn.edu is a "staff" machine (the actual boundaries break
down some, now that we have more than 65000 student accounts).  maroon
has a larger percentage of active users, and is a single (albeit
higher-capacity) machine and the machines comprising gold.  

The usage pattern is *very* different between the two machines.  Staff
and faculty, since they usually have a reliable, predictable place to
read mail from, generally use POPmail (our local microcomputer folk
don't really do IMAP, except as a POP emulator :-( ).  Students, since
they are bouncing in from lots of different public labs, generally use
an interactive session, with a menuing shell, and a copy of pine.
Puts a tremendous load on the servers, by comparison.

Get your clients to use a real IMAP client as early as possible; based
on what I've seen (from a slight distance) here at UMN, it'll cut down
your hardware costs dramatically.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec 23 07:30:28 1993
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 10:16:25 -0500 (EST)
From: "Carolynn Seeley ( Spring )" <cseeley@offsv1.cis.mcmaster.ca>
Subject: unparseable date in PINE 3.89
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <MailManager.756628613.2774.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
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I have completed the upgrades to PINE 3.88 from 3.07 on a SUN; to 3.88 
from 3.05 on a Solaris; and to 3.89 from 3.07 on an SGI.  

A few of my people have been reporting a problem with PINE 3.89 on the 
SGI. When they start their PINE session the Main menu comes up with the 
message 'Opening INBOX' and then [after a beep] the message 'Unparseable 
date' appears in the command line. PINE seems to open everything and run 
fine and the error message disappears after a few screen changes. 

Any ideas? Has anyone else run across this? 

Thanks for your help, and Happy Holidays to you all.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Carolynn Seeley (Spring)             email:  cseeley@mcmaster.ca
Consultant, Desktop Support                  cseeley@mcmail.cis.mcmaster.ca
Computing and Information Services     
McMaster University, JHE-122
(905) 525-9140              x27090     
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec 23 20:40:52 1993
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 23:33:02 -0500 (EST)
From: Highway 'Nakoruru' YAH! <highway@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: imapd installation questions
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312232345.C8744-0100000@rac2.wam.umd.edu>
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I'm trying to run a imapd server on a machine running linux ... does
anyone know what I must do to ensure that it runs correctly?  I mean,
is there anyone that has experience in trying to setup imapd to run
on linux?  I would like to see it happen but having troubles.

Basically, I'm clueless as to what I need to setup ... I have the files
/etc/service and /etc/inetd.conf set up as specified in the manual, but
what next?




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec 23 23:29:51 1993
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Date: Thu, 23 Dec 1993 23:21:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Subject: re: imapd installation questions
To: Highway 'Nakoruru' YAH! <highway@wam.umd.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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Hello.

I am the author of imapd.  Can you be more specific as to what sort of problem
you are encountering?  Supposedly, if you have edited /etc/services and
/etc/inetd.conf, and have installed the imapd binary in the place specified in
/etc/inetd.conf, it should all work.

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec 23 23:55:34 1993
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From: ianh@resmel.bhp.com.au (Ian Hoyle)
Message-Id: <9312240748.AA11370@monster.resmel.bhp.com.au>
Subject: Re: imapd installation questions
To: MRC@Panda.COM (Mark Crispin)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1993 18:48:50 +1100 (EST)
Cc: highway@wam.umd.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <MailManager.756717673.6248.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM> from "Mark Crispin" at Dec 23, 93 11:21:13 pm
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> I am the author of imapd.  Can you be more specific as to what sort of problem
> you are encountering?  Supposedly, if you have edited /etc/services and
> /etc/inetd.conf, and have installed the imapd binary in the place specified in
> /etc/inetd.conf, it should all work.

Maybe a SIGHUP of inetd ???

	ian

-- 
   /\/\     :  Ian Hoyle,  Senior Research Scientist
  / / /\    :  BHP Research - Melbourne Laboratories
 / / /  \   :  245 Wellington Rd, Mulgrave, 3170, AUSTRALIA
/ / / /\ \  :  Phone    +61-3-560-7066
\ \/ / / /  :  E-mail   ianh@resmel.bhp.com.au
 \  / / /   :  
  \/\/\/    : "perl - the swiss army chainsaw of UNIX tools"
            :               -- Rob Kolstad



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 24 00:00:12 1993
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From: ianh@resmel.bhp.com.au (Ian Hoyle)
Message-Id: <9312240748.AA11370@monster.resmel.bhp.com.au>
Subject: Re: imapd installation questions
To: MRC@Panda.COM (Mark Crispin)
Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1993 18:48:50 +1100 (EST)
Cc: highway@wam.umd.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <MailManager.756717673.6248.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM> from "Mark Crispin" at Dec 23, 93 11:21:13 pm
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> I am the author of imapd.  Can you be more specific as to what sort of problem
> you are encountering?  Supposedly, if you have edited /etc/services and
> /etc/inetd.conf, and have installed the imapd binary in the place specified in
> /etc/inetd.conf, it should all work.

Maybe a SIGHUP of inetd ???

	ian

-- 
   /\/\     :  Ian Hoyle,  Senior Research Scientist
  / / /\    :  BHP Research - Melbourne Laboratories
 / / /  \   :  245 Wellington Rd, Mulgrave, 3170, AUSTRALIA
/ / / /\ \  :  Phone    +61-3-560-7066
\ \/ / / /  :  E-mail   ianh@resmel.bhp.com.au
 \  / / /   :  
  \/\/\/    : "perl - the swiss army chainsaw of UNIX tools"
            :               -- Rob Kolstad



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 24 01:47:57 1993
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Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1993 16:56:32 +0800 (TPE)
From: Ed Greshko <egreshko@twntpe.cdc.com>
Subject: Re: imapd installation questions
To: Highway 'Nakoruru' YAH! <highway@wam.umd.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312232345.C8744-0100000@rac2.wam.umd.edu>
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On Thu, 23 Dec 1993, Highway 'Nakoruru' YAH! wrote:

> I'm trying to run a imapd server on a machine running linux ... does
> anyone know what I must do to ensure that it runs correctly?  I mean,
> is there anyone that has experience in trying to setup imapd to run
> on linux?  I would like to see it happen but having troubles.
> 
> Basically, I'm clueless as to what I need to setup ... I have the files
> /etc/service and /etc/inetd.conf set up as specified in the manual, but
> what next?

	It seems like you have everything you need.  You just want to
verify it works?

	Well, one thing you can do is:

telnet hostname 143

	and see if you get something similar to this:

cosmo[300]% telnet cosmo 143
Trying 129.179.30.2...
Connected to cosmo.twntpe.cdc.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
* OK cosmo.twntpe.cdc.com IMAP2bis Service 7.6(73) at Fri, 24 Dec 1993 
17:40:45 +0800 (TPE)



Edward M. Greshko			Control Data Taiwan
Voice: +886-2-715-2222 x287		6/F, 131 Nanking East Road, Section 3
FAX  : +886-2-712-9197			Taipei, Taiwan R.O.C




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 24 12:53:53 1993
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Date: Fri, 24 Dec 1993 12:48:15 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Jason R. Thorpe" <thorpej@cs.orst.edu>
Subject: Re: imapd installation questions
To: Highway 'Nakoruru' YAH! <highway@wam.umd.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312232345.C8744-0100000@rac2.wam.umd.edu>
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On Thu, 23 Dec 1993, Highway 'Nakoruru' YAH! wrote:

> 
> 
> I'm trying to run a imapd server on a machine running linux ... does
> anyone know what I must do to ensure that it runs correctly?  I mean,
> is there anyone that has experience in trying to setup imapd to run
> on linux?  I would like to see it happen but having troubles.

I haven't set it up on Linux, but I have set Imap up on HPs, Suns (SunOS 
4.1.3 and Solaris 2.2), Sequents, NeXTs, and a NetBSD box...

> 
> Basically, I'm clueless as to what I need to setup ... I have the files
> /etc/service and /etc/inetd.conf set up as specified in the manual, but
> what next?

I'm assuming that you have imapd in /usr/local/etc...if not, then it's a 
matter of changing the path names that I'll describe...No problem...:-)

in /etc/services you should have the following line...

imap		143/tcp

in /etc/inetd.conf you should have the following line

imap	stream	tcp	nowait	root	/usr/local/etc/imapd	imapd

if you want to have the pre-authourized imap service (analogous to rlogin)
then you need to do the following...

ln -s /usr/local/etc/imapd /etc/rimapd

After all this then you should send a HUP signal to inetd...

kill -HUP {process number of inetd}

On an HP this doesn't always work (your services entry may not 
necessarily be recognized) but I get around this by killing inetd and 
restarting it...You probably won't have to do this...

You should be all set!  I have had imapd work flawlessly for me for 
months now..The only hitch was with an old version of imapd running on a 
Sequent...A simple hack to the code corrected this, and the good ol' Pine 
folks have since corrected the problem...Set up also has been _EXACTLY_ 
the same across all platforms I've run it on...

Hope this helps you out!

Later...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jason R. Thorpe          |     'All standard...'     |    434 Weatherford Hall
OSU Computer Science     |    thorpej@cs.orst.edu    |     Corvallis, OR 97331
Support Staff            |  '...disclaimers apply.'  |          (503) 737-9533



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sat Dec 25 09:27:51 1993
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Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1993 12:19:44 -0500 (EST)
From: Highway 'Nakoruru' YAH! <highway@wam.umd.edu>
Reply-To: Highway 'Nakoruru' YAH! <highway@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: imapd installation questions
To: Ed Greshko <egreshko@twntpe.cdc.com>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.87.9312251543.A5468-0100000@cosmo.twntpe.cdc.com>
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When I tried logging into imapd manually, this is the result.

telnet w3eax.umd.edu 143 
Trying 128.8.198.73 ...
Connected to w3eax.umd.edu.
Escape character is '^]'.
* OK w3eax.umd.edu IMAP2bis Service 7.5(72) at Sat, 25 Dec 1993 12:13:06 +0000
a.001 login highway <password>
a.001 NO Bad LOGIN user name and/or password
a.002 logout
* BYE w3eax.umd.edu IMAP2bis server terminating connection
a.002 OK LOGOUT completed
Connection closed by foreign host.

Any ideas?
--------------------- [ National Service Fraternity ] ----------------------
  UU   UU MM   MM DDDDDD        highway@wam.umd.edu       EEEEEEE MM   MM
  UU   UU MMM MMM DD   DD "the snuggly, cuddly care bear" EE      MMM MMM
  UU   UU MM M MM DD   DD       124 Englefield Drive      EEEEE   MM M MM
  UU   UU MM   MM DD   DD     Gaithersburg, MD  20878     EE      MM   MM
  UUUUUUU MM   MM DDDDDD           (301) 948-5174         EEEEEEE MM   MM
  University of Maryland   Internet: highway@wam.umd.edu    Epsilon  Mu
       College Park          Bitnet: tcwu@umdd.bitnet     Alpha Phi Omega
----------------- [ In Leadership, Friendship & Service ] ------------------
{What is your name?}                                     (Jean-Luc Picard.)
{What is your quest?}              (To seek out new life and civilization.)
{What is the average warp speed of a bird of prey?}   (Klingon or Romulan?)
{What?  I don't know that??!?!  AIIIIEEEEEEEEE!!!!}




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sat Dec 25 11:55:22 1993
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Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1993 11:46:11 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Subject: Re: imapd installation questions
To: Highway 'Nakoruru' YAH! <highway@wam.umd.edu>
Cc: Ed Greshko <egreshko@twntpe.cdc.com>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312251237.A5405-0100000@rac2.wam.umd.edu>
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Almost certainly, the problem is that the server_login() routine isn't
cognizant of the password system (probably shadow passwords) which you are
using.  Unfortunately, there are so many different versions of shadow
passwords that I've found it nearly impossible to keep up.  The current Linux
code assumes ``standard'' (not shadow) password keeping.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sat Dec 25 18:55:49 1993
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Date: Sat, 25 Dec 1993 21:48:00 -0500 (EST)
From: Mike Grupenhoff <kashmir@wam.umd.edu>
Subject: Re: imapd installation questions
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <MailManager.756848771.254.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>
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On Sat, 25 Dec 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:

> Almost certainly, the problem is that the server_login() routine isn't
> cognizant of the password system (probably shadow passwords) which you are
> using.  Unfortunately, there are so many different versions of shadow
> passwords that I've found it nearly impossible to keep up.  The current Linux
> code assumes ``standard'' (not shadow) password keeping.

Adding #include <shadow.h> and linking with -lshadow may work.  The next 
version of libc will support shadow passwords transparently, without 
having to recompile.

--
Mike Grupenhoff
kashmir@wam.umd.edu
MIME mail accepted



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec 30 07:19:39 1993
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1993 07:08:34 -0800 (PST)
From: Mike Ramey <mramey@u.washington.edu>
Subject: Addressbook #@!?%$&!!
To: Pine-Info Email List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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Yet another repeat of my message to allow Add & Edit in the addressbook 
when accessed from the composer (via ^T in the address fields) ...

I just noticed a (new to me) inconsistency:
  - when entered via M/ain,A/ddressbook ... E means Edit
  - when entered via C/ompose,^T ...        E means Exit

You might say 'Get used to it' new users have never known any different.
But I still believe the old approach was better:
  - when I was in the addressbook (either via M,A or via C,^T),
    I was able to Add, Edit, -and- (from C,^T) paste an address
    in the message I was composing.
The behavior of the addressbook was the same, no matter how I accessed it.

Please consider a return to the original design!  
Thanks, -mr


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec 30 07:22:48 1993
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          Thu, 30 Dec 93 15:12 GMT
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1993 15:12:07 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: imapd and Solaris 2.2
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Cc: A.P.Martin@qmw.ac.uk
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9312301405.A5016-0100000@osprey>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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From: Laurie Cuthbert <L.G.Cuthbert@qmw.ac.uk>
X-Original-From: laurie

We have had imapd running under Solaris 2.2 for some time (the imapd that 
was bundled with 3.88 and now 3.89) and it seemed OK. However, a couple 
of "funnies" have now surfaced and I wonder if anyone else has 
experienced them.

The Solaris 2 machine is a server for student mail in the department. 
Most students use either ECS or pine as an MUA. In each case they were
saving mail to local folders. 
               ^^^^^ 

However, in order to improve access for students to mail, we reached an
agreement with our central Computing Services (CSS) that they would run
pc-pine on some of the open-access PC clusters. When we tried this out, we
decided to allow mail to be saved to remote folders using imap and this
was when the problem showed up. 

The problem is: a listing of remote folders removes the first 3 
characters of the folder name, except INBOX which it handles quite happily.


At first we thought it was the way CSS had set up the PCs (they are 
obsessed with Novell and have tcp/ip over Novell) but it turns out that 
this is not the case - it appears to be the imapd on the Solaris 2 machine.

Below is the folder listing obtained with using pine 3.89 on that machine 
with the folder collection given as:

folder-collections={gryphon.elec.qmw.ac.uk}mail/[]

INBOX               mail/               nt-mail

The entry "nt-mail" should be "sent-mail". It was created automatically 
by pine and appears correct in a directory listing:

gryphon{testuser}75: ls
Mail@  mail/
gryphon{testuser}76: cd mail
/users/test/testuser/mail
gryphon{testuser}77: ls
sent-mail

The outgoing message was written to the sent-mail file.

I also do not understand why the folder listing shows the entry mail/

The other (more minor) problem is that the rimapd protocol does not seem 
to work either - we always get asked for a password. This is less of a 
problem since most users access that server from PCs so need to log in 
anyway.

Any comments would be appreciated.

Regards

Laurie Cuthbert


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec 30 12:34:01 1993
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Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1993 12:21:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Subject: re: imapd and Solaris 2.2
To: Laurie Cuthbert <L.G.Cuthbert@qmw.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, A.P.Martin@qmw.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.89.9312301405.A5016-0100000@osprey>
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Hello Laurie -

     Re: remote folder name decapitation problem:

     Did you try rebuilding imapd?  There is a problem in the interpretation
of directory entries depending upon whether you use struct direct or struct
dirent.  It gets worse; apparently binaries that run on one Solaris machine
don't necessarily run on another!

     Recommendation: try rebuilding the imapd binary.  If you still see the
problem, try rebuilding the imapd binary from the IMAP toolkit mail/imap.tar.Z
on ftp.cac.washington.edu and use that instead of the Pine-bundled version.
We don't believe there are any changes between the (slightly newer) IMAP
toolkit version and the Pine-bundled version that would explain the problem,
but in each case I've seen to date, rebuilding does the trick.

     Re: rimapd access not working:

     Try ``rsh server /etc/rimapd'' from the client and see if that gets you
into a pre-authenticated IMAP server.  You should get text starting with the
string ``* PREAUTH'' (use ``. LOGOUT'' to get out).  If you get an error
message, figure out what causes that error message and that'll probably fix
the problem.

     Happy new year.

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Dec 30 15:43:50 1993
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From: Ralph Sims <ralphs@halcyon.com>
Message-Id: <199312302334.AA13454@halcyon.com>
Subject: saving folders to the 'imap server'
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Thu, 30 Dec 1993 15:34:05 -0800 (PST)
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Is there a way to save posts to a folder on the imap server?  For
instance, I have a shell account on my imap server.  I read a mail
message that I want saved to a specific folder - ON THAT MACHINE,
not the one I'm running pine on.  Does pine support something like:
{name.of.server}:/save/folder/here/filename ?


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 31 06:03:49 1993
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Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1993 13:57:16 +0000 (GMT)
Subject: re: imapd and Solaris 2.2
To: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, A.P.Martin@qmw.ac.uk
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From: Laurie Cuthbert <L.G.Cuthbert@qmw.ac.uk>
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Hi Mark

On Thu, 30 Dec 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:

>      Re: remote folder name decapitation problem:
> 
>      Did you try rebuilding imapd?  There is a problem in the interpretation
> of directory entries depending upon whether you use struct direct or struct
> dirent.  It gets worse; apparently binaries that run on one Solaris machine
> don't necessarily run on another!

I believe that with Solaris 2!! - it is _not_ my favourite operating system!
> 
>      Recommendation: try rebuilding the imapd binary.  If you still see the
> problem, try rebuilding the imapd binary from the IMAP toolkit mail/imap.tar.Z
> on ftp.cac.washington.edu and use that instead of the Pine-bundled version.
> We don't believe there are any changes between the (slightly newer) IMAP
> toolkit version and the Pine-bundled version that would explain the problem,
> but in each case I've seen to date, rebuilding does the trick.

I had already tried rebuilding the 3.89 bundled version. I've now tried 
the IMAP toolkit one and also (as a last resort) using the solaris binary 
available at UW  - all have exactly the same effect, except that the 
rimap problem has disappeared.
 
Sorry to spoil your record about rebuilding curing the problem  :-)

If nobody else has seen anything similar, we will start to have a 
detailed look at what might be happening.

regards and Happy New Year to you too.

Laurie






From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 31 11:56:59 1993
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Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1993 11:45:23 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: imapd and Solaris 2.2
To: Laurie Cuthbert <L.G.Cuthbert@qmw.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, A.P.Martin@qmw.ac.uk
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Can you give me access to your Solaris system?  I'd like to take a look.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Dec 31 23:45:40 1993
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Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1993 23:38:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: saving folders to the 'imap server'
To: Ralph Sims <ralphs@halcyon.com>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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On Thu, 30 Dec 1993, Ralph Sims wrote:

> Is there a way to save posts to a folder on the imap server?  For
> instance, I have a shell account on my imap server.  I read a mail
> message that I want saved to a specific folder - ON THAT MACHINE,
> not the one I'm running pine on.  Does pine support something like:
> {name.of.server}:/save/folder/here/filename ?

Sure does.  At the Save prompt enter:  {host.name}pathname

-teg


