From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 01:30:43 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 10:13:56 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Reply-To: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Subject: Address resolution
To: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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I've seen many mails about address resolution and I hope the 
following has not been mentioned before.

In the index screen, I can read the following From field:

	frmrc::a1_evoai2::bastoul.jean-charles

However, if I decide to reply to that fellow, the To header field
becomes:

"frmrc::a1_evoai2::bastoul.jean-charles"@nova15.vbo.dec.com

I can't use that address and I need to modify it by hand. However, my
sendmail.cf knows how to handle DECnet addresses and the first address is
fine because sendmail will modify it properly before sending.

What I am looking for is a kind of switch for allowing or not address
expansion.

/francois
Internet: donze@vbo.dec.com
DECnet: ulysse::donze
All in 1: francois donze @vbo
Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81
Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 05:00:43 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:49:15 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Subject: Include mail fonctionality
To: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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I did not find anything in the compose menu allowing including a 
specific mail in the body text. I could workaround by exporting and 
then read file which is fine but heavy. 

Of course, I am not speaking of forwarding but but including a 
mail. Did I miss this somewhere ?.



/francois
Internet: donze@vbo.dec.com
DECnet: ulysse::donze
All in 1: francois donze @vbo
Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81
Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 06:10:07 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 09:00:13 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Address resolution
To: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Cc: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303011013.F16790-a100000@nova15.vbo.dec.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303010912.B22103-b100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
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There really isn't any way to turn off address expansion in Pine. It's
pretty deeply ingranined, but I believe the address that results from the
expansion you give below should work fine. It's just adding the local host
name on the end; your sendmail should be smart enough to know what to do
with it if it can handle DECnet mail. We've pretty much intentionally made
Pine follow RFC-822 closely because we believe that adhering to standards
will increase interoperability and the quality of the product. 

LL


On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Francois Donze wrote:

> 
> I've seen many mails about address resolution and I hope the 
> following has not been mentioned before.
> 
> In the index screen, I can read the following From field:
> 
> 	frmrc::a1_evoai2::bastoul.jean-charles
> 
> However, if I decide to reply to that fellow, the To header field
> becomes:
> 
> "frmrc::a1_evoai2::bastoul.jean-charles"@nova15.vbo.dec.com
> 
> I can't use that address and I need to modify it by hand. However, my
> sendmail.cf knows how to handle DECnet addresses and the first address is
> fine because sendmail will modify it properly before sending.
> 
> What I am looking for is a kind of switch for allowing or not address
> expansion.
> 
> /francois
> Internet: donze@vbo.dec.com
> DECnet: ulysse::donze
> All in 1: francois donze @vbo
> Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81
> Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34
> 
> 
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 06:13:20 1993
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	id AA22186; Mon, 1 Mar 1993 09:04:23 -0500
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 09:03:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Include mail fonctionality
To: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Cc: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303011315.F294-9100000@nova15.vbo.dec.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303010909.C22103-a100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
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Status: O
X-Status: 

The way to do this in Pine now is to use the export command to write the
message to a file and then include the file with the ^R command in the
composer. Would be nice if there was a better way...

LL


On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Francois Donze wrote:

> 
> I did not find anything in the compose menu allowing including a 
> specific mail in the body text. I could workaround by exporting and 
> then read file which is fine but heavy. 
> 
> Of course, I am not speaking of forwarding but but including a 
> mail. Did I miss this somewhere ?.
> 
> 
> 
> /francois
> Internet: donze@vbo.dec.com
> DECnet: ulysse::donze
> All in 1: francois donze @vbo
> Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81
> Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 12:48:35 1993
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Date: 	Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:26:41 -0500
From: Paul Maclauchlan <paul@moore.com>
Subject: Return Receipt et al
To: Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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Is there a philosophical reason a "Return-Receipt-To:" header is not
available with the Rich Header option?  It would be useful.

Even more useful would be a method for a sender to check the Status: line
of a message sent to another user.  I keep getting questions like "How do
I know they read my message?"  Any suggestions?

--
.../Paul Maclauchlan
Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
paul@moore.com   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
"You know you can't hold me forever, I didn't sign up with you."/EJ&BT'73




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 13:10:44 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 12:49:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Subject: re: Return Receipt et al
To: Paul Maclauchlan <paul@moore.com>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303011341.C5692-a100000@moore>
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On Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:26:41 -0500, Paul Maclauchlan wrote:
> Is there a philosophical reason a "Return-Receipt-To:" header is not
> available with the Rich Header option?  It would be useful.

The Return-Receipt-To header is extremely controversial.  It is not part of
any standards; rather, it is a local feature implemented inside the UNIX
sendmail and not in other mailers.

Thus, there is no guarantee that you will get a return receipt; the absence of
a receipt does not mean that that the user did not get the message, just as
the absence of a human-generated acknowledgement or reply does not.

Some people, including me, are opposed to the functionality on privacy
grounds.  I patched out the return receipt functionality in sendmail on my
workstations.  If I do not acknowledge or reply to a message, I have a
specific reason for not doing so; and do not want a program to override my
wishes.

There has been talk about a voluntary facility that would prompt the user
agent to say, when the receipient reads the mail, ``the sender requested that
this message be acknowledged.  Shall I send an acknowledgement?''  The problem
is, since it's a voluntary functionality, it would suffer all the problems of
uncertainty that return receipts would.

> Even more useful would be a method for a sender to check the Status: line
> of a message sent to another user.  I keep getting questions like "How do
> I know they read my message?"  Any suggestions?

This is something that would be even more abhorrant, even to people who accept
the return receipt functionality as attractive.  It requires a program to dig
into another user's private data.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 13:38:39 1993
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To: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Cc: Paul Maclauchlan <paul@moore.com>,
        Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al 
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1993 16:20:15 -0500
From: Joe Ilacqua <spike@world.std.com>
Status: O
X-Status: 


	Since it is only a receipt of delivery to your mail box, and
does not in anyway guarantee that you have seen them message, I'm not
sure I see the philosophical problem.  All it does is inform the
sender that the various mail links are functioning.

->Spike


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 13:44:07 1993
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Date: Tue,  2 Mar 1993 10:36:18 +1300 (NZDT)
From: Jason Haar <cctr127@cantsc.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
In-Reply-To: <199303012120.AA20689@world.std.com>
To: Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Jason Haar <j.haar@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz>
Message-Id: <UfYc7GK4hFs6I7eE9S@cantsc.canterbury.ac.nz>
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Organisation: CSC, University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand.
References: <199303012120.AA20689@world.std.com>
Status: O
X-Status: 

<nl>
<bold><excerpt>Excerpts from Mailing-Lists.Info-Pine: 1-Mar-93 Re: Return Rece=
ipt et al Joe Ilacqua@world.std.co (260)</excerpt></bold><nl>
<nl>
<nl>
<excerpt>	Since it is only a receipt of delivery to your mail box, and<nl>
does not in anyway guarantee that you have seen them message, I'm not<nl>
sure I see the philosophical problem.  All it does is inform the<nl>
sender that the various mail links are functioning.<nl>
</excerpt><nl>
You are confusing a delivery-receipt with a read-receipt (<bold>Delivery-Recei=
pt-To:</bold> vs <bold>Read-Receipt-To:</bold> header)<nl>
<nl>
Cheers<nl>
<nl>
Jason Haar


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 14:05:50 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 13:31:19 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al 
To: Joe Ilacqua <spike@world.std.com>
Cc: Paul Maclauchlan <paul@moore.com>,
        Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <199303012120.AA20689@world.std.com>
Message-Id: <MailManager.731021479.261.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Status: 

On Mon, 01 Mar 1993 16:20:15 -0500, Joe Ilacqua wrote:
> 	Since it is only a receipt of delivery to your mail box, and
> does not in anyway guarantee that you have seen them message, I'm not
> sure I see the philosophical problem.  All it does is inform the
> sender that the various mail links are functioning.

I occasionally receive email that I want no acknowledgement of its delivery
returned to the sender.  That is, I expressly want to be able to deny having
ever received the message if questioned.  Sometimes, an ``e-mail black hole''
is the only way to get rid of certain individuals.

If the sender really wants to check the mail links, the sender could send a
round-trip message using something like the % hack.  For example, I could send
a message to mrc%panda.com@world.std.com to see if mail to/from world.std.com
works from Panda.  But, I claim that I have no right to know whether or not a
message I sent makes it to spike@world.std.com's mailbox unless Joe Ilacqua
decides to give me that information.

If it's really important to me that I know if the message got there, I will
say ``Please acknowledge this message immediately.''  If Joe wants to do that,
he can do a reply with the single word ``ack'' as a message.  If he doesn't,
well, he doesn't.  It's his choice.  A programmed procedure eliminates that
choice.

Consider, too, the frightening possibility of lawsuits getting served via
email in light of the well-known irresponsible ways that people sometimes use
email.

However, the bottom line is that there is at present *no* standard way of
requesting return receipts, only various (different and non-interoperable)
hacks in different mailers.  If all your correspondents use sendmail on UNIX,
and none of them are nasty sorts like me that deliberately patched the code
out, then you could have a working receipt facility.  That is not a realistic
set of assumptions to make on the Internet.

I don't see any particular reason why Pine shouldn't make it possible to send
a Return-Receipt-To header.  On the other hand, who can take responsibility
for making sure it works?



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 14:10:10 1993
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To: Jason Haar <j.haar@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al 
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1993 16:58:23 -0500
From: Joe Ilacqua <spike@world.std.com>
Status: O
X-Status: 


<You are confusing a delivery-receipt with a read-receipt
>(Delivery-Receipt-To: vs Read-Receipt-To: header)

	I don't think I'm confused at all. We are talking about the
"Return-Receipt-To:" header (see the Subject: and Mark's message)
which I have never seen implemented to do anything other than delivery
receipt.  I've never seen a read receipt implementation, and I think
that you couldn't do it without mailer cooperation.

->Spike


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 14:14:58 1993
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From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Message-Id: <9303012158.AA16349@nfs-serv.netcom.com>
Subject: re: Return Receipt et al
To: MRC@Panda.COM (Mark Crispin)
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:58:22 PST
Cc: paul@moore.com, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <MailManager.731018985.261.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>; from "Mark Crispin" at Mar 1, 93 12:49 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
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'Mark Crispin says:'
> The Return-Receipt-To header is extremely controversial.  It is not part of
> any standards; rather, it is a local feature implemented inside the UNIX
> sendmail and not in other mailers.
> 
> Thus, there is no guarantee that you will get a return receipt; the absence of
> a receipt does not mean that that the user did not get the message, just as
> the absence of a human-generated acknowledgement or reply does not.
> 
> Some people, including me, are opposed to the functionality on privacy
> grounds.  I patched out the return receipt functionality in sendmail on my
> workstations.  If I do not acknowledge or reply to a message, I have a
> specific reason for not doing so; and do not want a program to override my
> wishes.

I thought that Return-Receipt-To simply acknowledges receipt of the
mail by the host, *not* that the mail has necessarily been read by
the receiver.  Is that not correct?

-- 
Thanks,
Will Estes              Internet: westes@netcom.com


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 14:31:22 1993
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To: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al 
Date: Mon, 01 Mar 1993 17:13:53 -0500
From: Joe Ilacqua <spike@world.std.com>
Status: O
X-Status: 


<But, I claim that I have no right to know whether or not a
>message I sent makes it to spike@world.std.com's mailbox unless Joe Ilacqua
<decides to give me that information.

	I disagree, I think I have ever right to know whether mail
mail was delivered or not.  Whether my mail got to you or whizzed off
in to a black hole is very much my business.

<Consider, too, the frightening possibility of lawsuits getting served
>via email in light of the well-known irresponsible ways that people
<sometimes use email.

	This is a real reach.

<I don't see any particular reason why Pine shouldn't make it possible to send
>a Return-Receipt-To header.  On the other hand, who can take responsibility
<for making sure it works?

	You don't have to guarantee it works, as there is no way the
sending site can, just provide access to it.  Or allow user defined
headers like ELM does.

->Spike


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 14:32:05 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 14:08:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Subject: re: Return Receipt et al
To: Will Estes <westes@netcom.com>
Cc: paul@moore.com, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <9303012158.AA16349@nfs-serv.netcom.com>
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On Mon, 1 Mar 93 13:58:22 PST, Will Estes wrote:
> I thought that Return-Receipt-To simply acknowledges receipt of the
> mail by the host, *not* that the mail has necessarily been read by
> the receiver.  Is that not correct?

What difference does that make?  Having my host say ``I got the message and
deposited it in his mailbox'' still conveys more information than I may
necessarily wish to convey.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 14:53:14 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 14:29:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al 
To: Joe Ilacqua <spike@world.std.com>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <199303012213.AA29083@world.std.com>
Message-Id: <MailManager.731024940.261.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>
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On Mon, 01 Mar 1993 17:13:53 -0500, Joe Ilacqua wrote:
> 	I disagree, I think I have ever right to know whether mail
> mail was delivered or not.  Whether my mail got to you or whizzed off
> in to a black hole is very much my business.

You may think it's your right, but if the recipient chooses to run a mailer
that does not pay any attention to your request for a receipt then you have no
way of forcing him to do so.

So, the person who thinks it's his right not to give you that information is
going to win out.  So is the person who thinks it's his right not to bother
implementing it.

These acknowledgements are voluntary.  There is no particular reason to
believe that a request for a human-generated acknowledgement will work any
worse than a request for a mailer-generated acknowledgement.  Provably, there
are cases where the latter will not work at all.

> <Consider, too, the frightening possibility of lawsuits getting served
> >via email in light of the well-known irresponsible ways that people
> <sometimes use email.
> 	This is a real reach.

On the contrary, I have heard rumors of exactly that possibility on a
commercial e-mail system, and I've seen articles in the trade rags about
electronic delivery of legal process.

Anyway, I am not the person to convince about whether or not Pine should
generate that header.  I'm just speaking my mind as a user here.

I think this discussion has been hashed out fully, so I'm not going to say any
more.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 15:05:34 1993
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From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Message-Id: <9303012256.AA22972@netcom.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Mon, 1 Mar 93 14:56:13 PST
In-Reply-To: <MailManager.731021479.261.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>; from "Mark Crispin" at Mar 1, 93 1:31 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O
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'Mark Crispin says:'
> 
> On Mon, 01 Mar 1993 16:20:15 -0500, Joe Ilacqua wrote:
> > 	Since it is only a receipt of delivery to your mail box, and
> > does not in anyway guarantee that you have seen them message, I'm not
> > sure I see the philosophical problem.  All it does is inform the
> > sender that the various mail links are functioning.
> 
> I occasionally receive email that I want no acknowledgement of its delivery
> returned to the sender.  That is, I expressly want to be able to deny having
> ever received the message if questioned.  Sometimes, an ``e-mail black hole''
> is the only way to get rid of certain individuals.

I think this is an application issue, not a problem with
Return-Receipt-To:.  I think you are requesting a capability within
sendmail to - on a case-by-case basis - refuse acknowledgement of
receipt to particular individuals when the destination is you.  

But the vast majority of people who use this feature simply want to
know that the mail arrived intact.  I know I never use that header
unless I'm dealing with someone on a mail system that loses mail, so
having acknowledgement of receipt is quite important.  


> However, the bottom line is that there is at present *no* standard way of
> requesting return receipts, only various (different and non-interoperable)
> hacks in different mailers.  If all your correspondents use sendmail on UNIX,
> and none of them are nasty sorts like me that deliberately patched the code
> out, then you could have a working receipt facility.  That is not a realistic
> set of assumptions to make on the Internet.

But it's all we've got, and it sort of works in 80% of the cases.  I
can't understand something that is useful 80% of the time just
because occasionally it is not.

-- 
Thanks,
Will Estes              Internet: westes@netcom.com
U.S. Computer           Cupertino, CA  95014


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 17:39:15 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 20:24:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Ron Pool <ron@cce.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al 
To: Joe Ilacqua <spike@world.std.com>
Cc: Jason Haar <j.haar@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz>,
        Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <199303012158.AA26673@world.std.com>
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On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Joe Ilacqua wrote:
> receipt.  I've never seen a read receipt implementation, and I think
> that you couldn't do it without mailer cooperation.

We actually had a read-receipt implementation -- it was in an _old_ local
email system that I re-wrote (about 8 years ago) from scratch.  The
re-implemented system also included read-receipt.  We've since switched to
pine and have gladly dropped the read-receipt and delivery-receipt features.

Please note that the biggest complaint about pine from our approx. 750
users has been that it doesn't have read-receipt in it like our old
system.  They've stopped clamoring about that now and seem to be quite
please with pine, excepting those few users who like to open a log file on
the PC when they first go into mail and close it when they leave,
expecting to see a perfectly formatted stream of the text of all messages
read.  Most of these users are happy to put up with this in order to get
the other features of pine like multiple enclosures (our old system had a
single enclosure available -- a homegrown concept then).
--
Ron Pool; Electronic Technology Group; B-15 Wing Hall; Ithaca, NY 14853
Internet: ron@cce.cornell.edu




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 19:10:19 1993
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Date: Mon, 1 Mar 1993 21:10:26 +22306404 (EST)
From: "Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g@virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al 
To: Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303012018.A17614-b100000@empire.cce.cornell.edu>
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This subject has been debated in other forums, and I'm aware of 
Mark Crispin's feelings on the matter ( and agree with a lot of
his privacy reservations ) BUT, it still stands that:

 - delivery-receipts AND read-receipts are something a lot of USERS
   want ( and sometimes NEED ) and when you tell them that read-receipts
   don't really do what they might think they do, they will tell you that 
   what they want is for you to make them work better - not to get
   rid of them. ( And they will take whatever limited functionality 
   they currently offer in the mean time. ) 

 - Delivery-receipts AND read-receipts ARE implemented in several systems. 
   ( usually non portable, non standard and proprietary ) 

 - email thru multiple gateways is unreliable enough that even delivery
   receipts are useful. Sometimes 3 days for a bounce message is an 
   unacceptable time to wait for a NACK. And out-of-band phone verification
   is also often out of the question. ( If we could get them on the phone
   then we wouldn't be using email in many cases. Researchers in the former
   Soviet Union, for example, usually tell us to use email because the phone
   system is so poor! ) 


And, I _might_ add (IMHO), that there are business and commercial uses that
will require (read or delivery) receipts. But then many of those uses will
also require sender verification, public-key-encryption and other security
features, form-letter replies, in addition to a more reliable receipt capability. 

But since I've heard there may be enough potential problems just getting MIME 
and PEM to work together, ( and I expect that any internet standard approach
to the above will end up using those two as building blocks ), I'll forgive
you, Mark, if you don't want to waste YOUR time on it. :-) 

BUT: I managed to keep my damn mount shut the last 3 or 4 times this 
topic came up. I weakened this time because it's late AND I want to 
ask: Is there an architectural overview - an Email Reference Model - 
of how responsibilities should be partitioned between the user agent 
and the delivery agent ( and imap and other parts of the mail system ). 
My impression is that OSI terminology has sort of been bolted onto 
current practice, but that there is not really a very clear model. 


But I guess this is getting out of the pine-info mailing list realm. 


===============================================================================
 Steven D. Majewski			University of Virginia 
 sdm7g@Virginia.EDU			Box 449 Health Sciences Center
 Voice: (804)-982-0831			1300 Jefferson Park Avenue
 FAX:   (804)-982-1616			Charlottesville, VA 22908



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  1 21:22:17 1993
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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 00:04:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al 
To: "Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g@virginia.edu>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05a.9303012124.A17613-c100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303020035.A4426-c100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
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X-Status: 

I think you've got a lot of good points in favor of r-r-r here. Certainly
it's needed for EDI like applications in the future, though I think a lot
of the need for verification now is because users are new and insecure
about e-mail. 

I think the ironic thing about the current r-r-r: is that it's probability of
working is about the same as the message going through so it doesn't get
you very much. For example if you go through a a gateway to FidoNet or
such where the messages is likely to get lost, the r-r-r is also likely to
get lost because it's no longer SMTP and sendmail.

I think the gating issue for Pine is clearly the lack of standards for
this. The idea in Pine is to stick with standards to keep interoperability
and quality as high as possible. There was a mailing list where some
Internet standards folks were hashing some of this out, but I think the
effort sort of petered out, mostly due to technical difficulties making it
work across gateways. 

LL




On Mon, 1 Mar 1993, Steven D. Majewski wrote:

> 
> This subject has been debated in other forums, and I'm aware of 
> Mark Crispin's feelings on the matter ( and agree with a lot of
> his privacy reservations ) BUT, it still stands that:
> 
>  - delivery-receipts AND read-receipts are something a lot of USERS
>    want ( and sometimes NEED ) and when you tell them that read-receipts
>    don't really do what they might think they do, they will tell you that 
>    what they want is for you to make them work better - not to get
>    rid of them. ( And they will take whatever limited functionality 
>    they currently offer in the mean time. ) 
> 
>  - Delivery-receipts AND read-receipts ARE implemented in several systems. 
>    ( usually non portable, non standard and proprietary ) 
> 
>  - email thru multiple gateways is unreliable enough that even delivery
>    receipts are useful. Sometimes 3 days for a bounce message is an 
>    unacceptable time to wait for a NACK. And out-of-band phone verification
>    is also often out of the question. ( If we could get them on the phone
>    then we wouldn't be using email in many cases. Researchers in the former
>    Soviet Union, for example, usually tell us to use email because the phone
>    system is so poor! ) 
> 
> 
> And, I _might_ add (IMHO), that there are business and commercial uses that
> will require (read or delivery) receipts. But then many of those uses will
> also require sender verification, public-key-encryption and other security
> features, form-letter replies, in addition to a more reliable receipt
capability.  > 
> But since I've heard there may be enough potential problems just getting MIME 
> and PEM to work together, ( and I expect that any internet standard approach
> to the above will end up using those two as building blocks ), I'll forgive
> you, Mark, if you don't want to waste YOUR time on it. :-) 
> 
> BUT: I managed to keep my damn mount shut the last 3 or 4 times this 
> topic came up. I weakened this time because it's late AND I want to 
> ask: Is there an architectural overview - an Email Reference Model - 
> of how responsibilities should be partitioned between the user agent 
> and the delivery agent ( and imap and other parts of the mail system ). 
> My impression is that OSI terminology has sort of been bolted onto 
> current practice, but that there is not really a very clear model. 
> 
> 
> But I guess this is getting out of the pine-info mailing list realm. 
> 
> 
> ===============================================================================
>  Steven D. Majewski			University of Virginia 
>  sdm7g@Virginia.EDU			Box 449 Health Sciences Center
>  Voice: (804)-982-0831			1300 Jefferson Park Avenue
>  FAX:   (804)-982-1616			Charlottesville, VA 22908
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  2 03:04:52 1993
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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:37:16 +0000 (GMT)
From: Michael Rowe <comdr@suna.lut.ac.uk>
Reply-To: Michael Rowe <comdr@suna.lut.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
To: Pine Info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303021005.A3727-9100000@suna>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Status: 

Why not use the following

Generate-Delivery-Report:

This can be used to request a delivery report when sending mail from
Internet through an X400 gateway, and is mentioned in the latest RFC
relating to Internet to X400 gateways/message transfer.

Michael (M.D.Rowe1@lut.ac.uk)

PS. I can't remember the RFC number I think it could be RFC 1123,
I'm not sure. It only has a passing mention in an otherwise large
document. It is also refered to in earlier RFC's on the subject.




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  2 07:36:06 1993
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Subject: PINE for WINDOWS
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From: HEEB@prime.ntb.ch
Date: 02 Mar 93 16:24:55 UT
Status: O
X-Status: 


Is there  a PINE Version for Windows3.1 available ?
In which Directory can i find this Vers. ?

Which Files must i copy to my PC?

H.U.Heeb
eMail heeb@ntb.ch




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  2 07:45:50 1993
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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:36:56 -0500
From: "Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g@elvis.med.virginia.edu>
Message-Id: <199303021536.AA10096@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>,
        "Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g@virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Mar 2,  0:04, Laurence Lundblade wrote:
> ... I think a lot of the need for verification now is because 
> users are new and insecure about e-mail. 

I agree with that point. And another reason is the partial penetration
of email in some organizations. Some people use it. Some don't. 
( And a place like UVA gives everyone an email address whether they 
use it or not. ) Some people don't know how to use the mail 
software. ( And especially, don't know how to turn on notification
if it hasn't been turned on by default for them. ) People don't 
understand why some messages bounce back right away, and others
take several days to be returned. In this sort of environment 
every bit of feedback helps --- It's like when a program echo's 
back "Working..." or something to keep the impatient from hitting
the interrupt. People like to get that "So far, so good" message!

> I think the ironic thing about the current r-r-r: is that it's probability of
> working is about the same as the message going through so it doesn't get
> you very much... 
> I think the gating issue for Pine is clearly the lack of standards for
> this. The idea in Pine is to stick with standards to keep interoperability
> and quality as high as possible. 

I guess what I was trying to say before was: 
I agree, in their current form, receipts are any ungly kludge, and so 
I can understand if you don't want to waste your time on them, BUT we 
ARE going to need those sort of standards soon. 

> There was a mailing list where some
> Internet standards folks were hashing some of this out, but I think the
> effort sort of petered out, mostly due to technical difficulties making it
> work across gateways. 

Which again, leads me back to the need for an "Email Architecture 
Reference Model". i.e. I don't see a proposal out there that tells 
the gateway and application people what exactly they are expected
to support. ( unless maybe it is implicit in some future promise 
of X.400 interoperability. ) 


But anyway - since the question is no longer "Why doesn't PINE 
support r-r-r?", I'll be happy to move this discussion to another
list if you have a suggestion of which is the appropriate one. 


===============================================================================
 Steven D. Majewski			University of Virginia 
 sdm7g@Virginia.EDU			Box 449 Health Sciences Center
 Voice: (804)-982-0831			1300 Jefferson Park Avenue
 FAX:   (804)-982-1616			Charlottesville, VA 22908


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  2 09:15:19 1993
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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:55:34 -0600 (CST)
From: Timothy Bergeron <bergeron@FCRC-NEXT.ecs.wustl.edu>
Subject: Does pine run on VMS?
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303021034.B3799-9100000@fcrc-next.ecs.wustl.edu>
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Pine was recently installed on the Unix machines in our College of Arts &
Sciences and is about to be installed on the machines in our School of
Engineering. Everyone that uses it really likes it. 

Now several departments/schools that run VMS are wondering if there is a
version of pine that will run on their VMS systems. Has anyone tried this? 

Timothy Bergeron
Manager, Consulting Services
Washington University
St. Louis, MO




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  2 10:25:44 1993
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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:13:56 -0800
From: Ralph Sims <ralphs@halcyon.halcyon.com>
Message-Id: <199303021813.AA08471@halcyon.com>
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Subject: shell escapes (disabling) and quota error message
Status: O
X-Status: 

Three things, please:

1.  How do I disable pine/pico from giving shell escapes to users (as
well as disabling ctrl-z).

2.  How do I disable pine's ability to read news folders/spool?

3.  How do I supress the "612 Megabytes over limit" message seen
when the index is accessed (we have quotas enabled)?

Many thanks for your help.


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  2 11:29:16 1993
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Date: 	Tue, 2 Mar 1993 12:09:23 -0700
From: Steve Hole <steve@edm.isac.ca>
Subject: Re: PINE for WINDOWS
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <ECS9303021223H>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: O
X-Status: 

--Part9303021223B
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII




On Tue, 2 Mar 1993 09:24:55 -0700 HEEB@prime.ntb.ch wrote:

> From:HEEB@prime.ntb.ch> Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 09:24:55 -0700
> Subject: PINE for WINDOWS
> To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
> 
> 
> Is there  a PINE Version for Windows3.1 available ?
> In which Directory can i find this Vers. ?
> 
> Which Files must i copy to my PC?
> 

There is a Windows MUA that is based (somewhat loosely now) on Pine.   It is
called ECSMail and I have included a short description of its features in this 
message.   

--
Steve Hole  		        Director of Research and Communications
ISA Corporation			mail:  steve@edm.isac.ca
Suite 835, 10040 - 104 St.      phone: (403) 420-8081
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada       fax:   (403) 420-8037
T5J 0Z2


--Part9303021223B
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; name="ANNOUNCE.TXT"

ISA has developed a new Mail User Agent (MUA) for processing electronic
mail on networks.  It is named "ECSMail".

ECSMail can function as both a "remote" MUA and a "local" MUA.   While
functioning in remote mode, it will access a remote message store using
standards based mail access protocols.   In local mode, it will access
a local message store using system dependent message store access
routines.  

ECSMail is has been designed and implemented to be as independent as
possible from operating system, display, and network protocols.  We have
achieved this by building driver libraries for the OS and displays, and
using Mark Crispin's c-client drivers for message store access (both
local and remote message stores).

Using this strategy, we are planning to support the following operating
systems, display, and mail protocol combinations:

 OS        - Unix, DOS, OS/2 v2, MacOS, NT
 Displays  - X11 (R4, R5, Openlook, Motif), MS Windows v3, Presentation
             Manager, Mac Finder
 MAP Protocols - IMAP2, P7, PP7
 MTP Protocols - SMTP, P1

It is our full intention to make this run on as many platforms, with as
many different mail application protocols as possible.  

With ECSMail we plan to provide many interesting features, such as:

  * Multi-part, multimedia mail messages:

    - supporting both MIME and X.400 message formats

    - files (e.g. binaries, images, text, voice, application) can be
      attached and sent along with the message.

    - the different parts of the messsage can be extracted
      and displayed (using the necessary application) to the user.

  * Multiple simultaneous folder access and management (drag and drop
    messages or blocks of messages between folders).

  * Hierarchical folder structures.

  * Virtual folders within folders.   Messages can be grouped using any
    combination of message header criteria into a virtual folder.
    Messages in a virtual folder can be listed and manipulated as
    a single object.   This supports threading of messages within
    folders. 

  * Integration of multicast (mail) and broadcast (NEWS, BBS) message
    stores via into a single interface.  NEWS groups appear as a list of
    folders and threading of broadcast messages will be supported.

  * Privancy Enhanced Mail (PEM).   Support encryption of message parts,
    digital signatures, and digital timestamps.

  * Forms mail.  Messages can be composed inside of a forms interface
    as a special message part.   It will include form design and
    display tools.

  * Draft message support.   Users will be able to create and store
    standard draft messages, and select draft messages from both public
    and private draft message stores.

  * Integration with "mail enabled applications".  

  * Personal configuration files.

  * Asynchronous new mail notification.

  * Personal address book lookup and management. Addresses can be loaded
    manually, copied from incoming mail, or copied from an X.500 DUA
    (see next).

  * Integration with X.500 Directory Services.  The user can query local
    and network-wide address information while composing messages.
    Addresses can be copied from the Directory User Agent to the user's
    local address book. This facility will be optionally available for
    those who have the X.500 Directory Service capability.

What Is Available Now
---------------------

A BETA demonstration version of the Microsoft Windows version of ECSMail is
available via anonymous ftp from

  ftp.srv.ualberta.ca

in the directory

  /pub/networking/win/mail/ecs.tar.Z

This version of ECSMail only supports the TCP/IP based mail access and
transport protocols (IMAP2, SMTP), and can deliver MIME format messages.
It provides what we term "basic functionality" - it does the things that
most mailers do.   Features such as the virtual folders, and NEWS
message sources have not been implemented at this time.

We encourage you to get the software and try it out.  This version of
ecs is released for demonstration purposes only - IT IS NOT CURRENTLY IN
THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.  As I have mentioned earlier, we are not currently
charging for the product, and are in the process of evaluating different
forms of funding for the software.

There are some restrictions on what you can do with the software at this
time.   The mailer is designed to support several different TCP/IP
stacks through the use of Windows DLLs.   Currently we support the
following TCP/IP stacks:

  * Beame and Whiteside - BWTCP 2.x
  * Sun Microsystems - PCNFS 4.x
  * DEC Pathworks v

We are currently working on providing:

  * Microsoft WinSock DLL compliance
  * FTP Software - PCTCP 2.04

If you are interested in supporting another TCP/IP stack, then provide
us with a copy of the stack and development kit - it must have a sockets
API - and we'll try to provide a DLL interface for it.  

How will we fund ECSMail?
-------------------------

There are two funding methods for ECSMail - maintenance contracts and
development contracts.

Maintenance contracts are signed with organizations that want support
and software maintenance on the ECSMail software.   This will include
free software upgrades and immediate response to software problems.

The cost of the maintenance is designed to be far less than
purchase->upgrade cost of conventional shrinkwrapped software.  The cost
is based on the number of installations that are in place.  The
organization will never be charged more than an agreed upon maximum.  As
the number of installations increases, the per seat cost decreases such
that maximum is never exceeded.  An organization can install as many
copies of ECSMail as they like.

Development contracts are signed to produce new functionality in the
ECSMail product.   ISA has identified a number of potential
functionality improvements that it would like to make to ECSMail.
We also believe that clients will have a number of features that they
would like to see added to the product.

The cost of the contract is determined by the amount of work required to
complete the development, and the number of organizations contributing
to the development.   The more organizations that contribute, the lower
the cost.   ISA publishes a detailed list of feature development
projects that it plans to run in the ecs-info mailing list (see below).  

Mailing lists
-------------

There is an ecs mailing list.   To join the mailing list send a message
to

  ecs-info-request@edm.isac.ca

To submit messages to the mailing list, send mail to

  ecs-info@edm.isac.ca

If there are problems with the list, then send mail to

  owner-ecs-info@edm.isac.ca

--Part9303021223B--


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  2 13:35:49 1993
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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 16:04:51 -0500 (EST)
From: "Stephen L. Frazier" <steve@research1.bryant.edu>
Subject: Dumps when reading certain message
To: pine-info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303021651.A16564-b100000@research1.bryant.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

I have been consistently getting a core dump when attempting to message
number 5 (depicted in the INDEX below).  It occurs immediately after
pressing the return key when that entry in the INDEX is highlighted.  I can
read messages before or after it without problem, however. (This has
happened once before some time ago.)

I can read the message by using the native unix mail program.  We are using
version 3.05 of PINE running under Ultrix.  Any ideas?

Thanks!

Steve
<steve@research1.bryant.edu>

  
       PINE 3.05       MAIL INDEX       Folder:inbox  Message 5 of 10

    1   Feb 28 Casilli               (542) List serves
    2   Mar  1 Paul Maclauchlan    (1,412) Re: User documentation
    3   Mar  1 Casilli               (553) list serves
    4   Mar  2 Christopher MacLel    (690) Re: SAS
  N 5   Mar  2 To: pine-info@cac.  (8,660) Re: PINE for WINDOWS
    6   Mar  2 Christopher MacLel  (1,127) MicroFocus Cobol
  N 7   Mar  2 Howard Blakesley    (1,428) Re: Archie????
  N 8   Mar  2 Barbara Weitbrecht  (1,646) Big sig sought
  N 9   Mar  2 Arnold V. Lesikar   (1,338) Re: Archie????
    10  Mar  2 Allan E Johannesen    (655) Re: Incorrect login message (fwd)







From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  2 13:52:32 1993
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Message-Id: <199303022132.AA04691@world.std.com>
To: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Cc: Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al 
Date: Tue, 02 Mar 1993 16:32:39 -0500
From: Joe Ilacqua <spike@world.std.com>
Status: O
X-Status: 


<On the contrary, I have heard rumors of exactly that possibility on a
>commercial e-mail system, and I've seen articles in the trade rags about
<electronic delivery of legal process.

	But that doesn't make it true or even believable.  Even with
read-receipt I can never prove you read it.  But this is an issue for
"misc.legal", not here.

	Email has become a common communications tool that people use
every day like, phone, fax, or real mail.  It is also become
increasingly reliable.  Pretendeding it isn't or worse deliberately
working to to keep it from becoming more reliable is silly.  I agree,
the issue of read-receipt is a hairy philosophical one.  But the issue
of "Did sending this message work?" is not.

	Back to the issue at hand.  Many of my Pine users know what
"Return-Receipt-To:" does and would like not to have to switch to
another MUA when they want to use it.  Therefor I would like to see
it, or user definable headers, in the next release of Pine.

->Spike


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  2 13:54:07 1993
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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 13:38:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: Dumps when reading certain message
To: "Stephen L. Frazier" <steve@research1.bryant.edu>
Cc: pine-info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303021651.A16564-b100000@research1.bryant.edu>
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X-Status: 

Could you send me a copy of the message or mailbox in question?



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  2 15:03:26 1993
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Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 17:16:34 +22306404 (EST)
From: "Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g@virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: Return Receipt et al 
To: Joe Ilacqua <spike@world.std.com>
Cc: Mark Crispin <MRC@panda.com>,
        Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <199303022132.AA04691@world.std.com>
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---2138107840-2132513265-731112793:#16092
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 2 Mar 1993, Joe Ilacqua wrote:
>
> 	Back to the issue at hand.  Many of my Pine users know what
> "Return-Receipt-To:" does and would like not to have to switch to
> another MUA when they want to use it.  Therefor I would like to see
> it, or user definable headers, in the next release of Pine.
> 

I (personally) don't often use "Return-Receipt-To:", but two of the
"missing" features that most often send ME to use another mailer are
user-defined headers ( or being able to edit-headers ) and mush's 
'pick' command. ( Except I would rather that 'pick' changed the view
of the current folder - like sort, but it would temporarily drop 
messages. The mush action of outputing a msg-list wouldn't fit very
well into the Pine User Interface. )

User-defined headers have been mentioned before as being difficult 
to parse and verify. And PINE wants to support the idea of making 
the mail-headers "fool-proof" (i.e. protected).

How about adding a list of allowable additional headers and a 
minimal maybe a minimal grammar to specify that some headers 
contain addresses, and SHOULD be parsed, and others contain a 
vanilla string ( and should just be checked for non string chars. ) 

If the field definition said something like: 

Sender: <address>  "default address" 
Return-Receipt-To: <address>
X-Something <string>

Then Sender and R-R-To: are parsed/checked to ensure they are valid 
conforming fully qualified addresses ( and checked against the address
book on the way. ) while X-Something is only checked that it doesn't 
have any funny embedded chars. 


( BTW: My typical use for editing or extending headers is to 
  modify the Sender:, From:, & Reply-To: fields when sending out
  something in my Bosses name. The secretaries here would have the
  same need, but they aren't as adept with the mail software to 
  figure out how to do it, so it would be nice if there was a 
  "form" capability to set up the proper RFC-822 recommended 
  headers for this type of situation.  Extract from the appropriate
  portion of RFC822 included for illustration. ) 


===============================================================================
 Steven D. Majewski			University of Virginia 
 sdm7g@Virginia.EDU			Box 449 Health Sciences Center
 Voice: (804)-982-0831			1300 Jefferson Park Avenue
 FAX:   (804)-982-1616			Charlottesville, VA 22908








---2138107840-2132513265-731112793:#16092
Content-Type: APPLICATION/octet-stream; name=rfc
Content-ID: <Pine.3.05a.9303021713.B16092@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>
Content-Description: Appendix from rfc822 on secretary send mail,etc.



     August 13, 1982             	                      RFC #822
     Standard for ARPA Internet Text Messages


     A.2.  ORIGINATOR ITEMS

     A.2.1.  Author-sent

             George Jones logs into his host  as  "Jones".   He  sends
        mail himself.

            From:  Jones@Group.Org

        or

            From:  George Jones <Jones@Group.Org>

     A.2.2.  Secretary-sent

             George Jones logs in as Jones on his  host.   His  secre-
        tary,  who logs in as Secy sends mail for him.  Replies to the
        mail should go to George.

            From:    George Jones <Jones@Group>
            Sender:  Secy@Other-Group

     A.2.3.  Secretary-sent, for user of shared directory

             George Jones' secretary sends mail  for  George.  Replies
        should go to George.

            From:     George Jones<Shared@Group.Org>
            Sender:   Secy@Other-Group

        Note that there need not be a space between  "Jones"  and  the
        "<",  but  adding a space enhances readability (as is the case
        in other examples.

     A.2.4.  Committee activity, with one author

             George is a member of a committee.  He wishes to have any
        replies to his message go to all committee members.

            From:     George Jones <Jones@Host.Net>
            Sender:   Jones@Host
            Reply-To: The Committee: Jones@Host.Net,
                                     Smith@Other.Org,
                                     Doe@Somewhere-Else;

        Note  that  if  George  had  not  included  himself   in   the
        enumeration  of  The  Committee,  he  would not have gotten an
        implicit reply; the presence of the  "Reply-to"  field  SUPER-
        SEDES the sending of a reply to the person named in the "From"
        field.

     A.2.5.  Secretary acting as full agent of author

             George Jones asks his secretary  (Secy@Host)  to  send  a
        message for him in his capacity as Group.  He wants his secre-
        tary to handle all replies.

            From:     George Jones <Group@Host>
            Sender:   Secy@Host
            Reply-To: Secy@Host

     A.2.6.  Agent for user without online mailbox

             A friend  of  George's,  Sarah,  is  visiting.   George's
        secretary  sends  some  mail to a friend of Sarah in computer-
        land.  Replies should go to George, whose mailbox is Jones  at
        Registry.

            From:     Sarah Friendly <Secy@Registry>
            Sender:   Secy-Name <Secy@Registry>
            Reply-To: Jones@Registry.

     A.2.7.  Agent for member of a committee

             George's secretary sends out a message which was authored
        jointly by all the members of a committee.  Note that the name
        of the committee cannot be specified, since <group> names  are
        not permitted in the From field.

            From:   Jones@Host,
                    Smith@Other-Host,
                    Doe@Somewhere-Else
            Sender: Secy@SHost










---2138107840-2132513265-731112793:#16092--



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  2 15:01:33 1993
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	(5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02481; Tue, 2 Mar 93 15:01:33 -0800
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	(5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA02475; Tue, 2 Mar 93 15:01:30 -0800
Date: Tue, 2 Mar 1993 15:00:13 -0800 (PST)
From: Sheryl Erez <erez@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: re: Does pine run on VMS?
To: Timothy Bergeron <bergeron@FCRC-NEXT.ecs.wustl.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303021034.B3799-9100000@fcrc-next.ecs.wustl.edu>
Message-Id: <MailManager.731113213.593.erez@tsippi.cac.washington.edu>
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X-Status: 

Nope.  Pine doesn't run on VMS.  Many have asked about it and a few
have contemplated porting it, but nobody (that I know of) is doing a
complete port.  If you're interested in trying, we can provide full
source code and try to help out as questions arise.

                       Sheryl Erez
                         erez@cac.washington.edu
                           UW Network Information Center

On Tue, 2 Mar 1993 10:55:34 -0600 (CST), Timothy Bergeron wrote:

> Subject: Does pine run on VMS?
> To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
>
> Pine was recently installed on the Unix machines in our College of Arts &
> Sciences and is about to be installed on the machines in our School of
> Engineering. Everyone that uses it really likes it.
>
> Now several departments/schools that run VMS are wondering if there is a
> version of pine that will run on their VMS systems. Has anyone tried this?
>
> Timothy Bergeron
> Manager, Consulting Services
> Washington University
> St. Louis, MO



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar  3 04:43:56 1993
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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 12:55:23 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Subject: Choosing a Printer
To: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303031223.C2169-a100000@nova15.vbo.dec.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I am using two different printers according to the type of doc to print:
  desk printer for small doc
  Printer server for double side printing ....

What is the easiest way to change from one printer to the other?

Right now, I quit pine, edit .pinerc, modify the printer value and
enter pine again and print. Is there an easier way?

/francois 
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital Equipment SARL		|			   |
950 Route des Colles - BP 027	|      Francois Donze	   |
06901 SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS		|--------------------------|francois donze@VBO
	FRANCE			|			   |  ULYSSE::DONZE
 Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 		|E-mail: donze@vbo.dec.com |  DTN: 828-5481
 Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34		|			   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar  3 06:31:53 1993
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Received: by halcyon.com id AA15839
  (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu); Wed, 3 Mar 1993 06:19:25 -0800
From: Ralph Sims <ralphs@halcyon.halcyon.com>
Message-Id: <199303031419.AA15839@halcyon.com>
Subject: Re: shell escapes (disabling) and quota error message
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 06:19:23 -0800 (PST)
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.81.9303030753.A24348-a100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu> from "Laurence Lundblade" at Mar 3, 93 07:52:54 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL13]
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> > 1.  How do I disable pine/pico from giving shell escapes to users (as

> Didn't know there was a shell escape(?).. You can disable ^Z in both by
> not giving the -z flag. That is the default is disabled.

I thought there was the ability to grab a shell in pico.  I briefly
looked, but could not find it.

> > 3.  How do I supress the "612 Megabytes over limit" message seen
> > when the index is accessed (we have quotas enabled)?

> You can recompile with quotas turned off, but this sounds like a bug. 
> I believe there's a USE_QUOTAS define somewhere in the .h files that you
> can remove. What system is this for? 

ULTRIX 4.1 on a MicroVAX.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar  3 06:48:44 1993
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	id AA24521; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 07:55:41 -0500
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 07:52:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: shell escapes (disabling) and quota error message
To: Ralph Sims <ralphs@halcyon.halcyon.com>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <199303021813.AA08471@halcyon.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303030753.A24348-a100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
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Hello Ralph,

> 1.  How do I disable pine/pico from giving shell escapes to users (as
> well as disabling ctrl-z).

Didn't know there was a shell escape(?).. You can disable ^Z in both by
not giving the -z flag. That is the default is disabled.

> 
> 2.  How do I disable pine's ability to read news folders/spool?

You've have to recompile, commenting out the mail_link(newsdriver); line
in pine.c. (Not sure I got the exact line of the file, but it's close).


> 3.  How do I supress the "612 Megabytes over limit" message seen
> when the index is accessed (we have quotas enabled)?

You can recompile with quotas turned off, but this sounds like a bug. 
I believe there's a USE_QUOTAS define somewhere in the .h files that you
can remove. What system is this for? 


LL





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar  3 07:06:37 1993
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	id AA24693; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 08:50:24 -0600 for pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 08:47:51 -0600 (CST)
From: Earl Fogel <fogel@jester.usask.ca>
Subject: Re: shell escapes (disabling) and quota error message
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <199303031419.AA15839@halcyon.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.04.9303030837.A24520-a100000@jester.usask.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Wed, 3 Mar 1993, Ralph Sims wrote:

> > > 3.  How do I supress the "612 Megabytes over limit" message seen
> > > when the index is accessed (we have quotas enabled)?
> 
> > You can recompile with quotas turned off, but this sounds like a bug. 
> > I believe there's a USE_QUOTAS define somewhere in the .h files that you
> > can remove. What system is this for? 
> 
> ULTRIX 4.1 on a MicroVAX.

We had a similar problem under Ultrix 4.2 on a DECstation.  When Pine was
recompiled *without* optimization, the problem disappeared.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar  3 07:57:29 1993
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	id AA26688; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 10:45:00 -0500
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 10:43:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Choosing a Printer
To: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Cc: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303031223.C2169-a100000@nova15.vbo.dec.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303031053.D26250-b100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

On the Other menu off the main screen there's an item to set the printer. When
you change it there it rewrites the .pinerc file.

LL


On Wed, 3 Mar 1993, Francois Donze wrote:

> I am using two different printers according to the type of doc to print:
>   desk printer for small doc
>   Printer server for double side printing ....
> 
> What is the easiest way to change from one printer to the other?
> 
> Right now, I quit pine, edit .pinerc, modify the printer value and
> enter pine again and print. Is there an easier way?
> 
> /francois 
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Digital Equipment SARL		|			   |
> 950 Route des Colles - BP 027	|      Francois Donze	   |
> 06901 SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS		|--------------------------|francois donze@VBO
> 	FRANCE			|			   |  ULYSSE::DONZE
>  Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 		|E-mail: donze@vbo.dec.com |  DTN: 828-5481
>  Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34		|			   |
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar  3 09:45:01 1993
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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 12:33:44 -0500 (EST)
From: "John J. Guettler" <jjg@tardis.svsu.edu>
Reply-To: "John J. Guettler" <jjg@tardis.svsu.edu>
Subject: Locking Keyboard Problem
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303031211.B26050-a100000@tardis.svsu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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I've just discovered that if I use the lock keyboard option, pine will not
accept my correct password to unlock the keyboard, and I have to break my
connection to force myself off the system.

I'm also having a similar problem with the imapd in the pine distribution.
It will not take a correct password, either.  I've telnet-ed to the imap
port and tried entering the command by hand, but it responds with bad
username or password.

My system is a DECstation 5000/25 running ULTRIX V4.2A.  I'm also running
at ENHANCED security level.  Could this be causing the problem?

	John J. Guettler
	Saginaw Valley State University
	University Center, MI  48710



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar  3 11:07:36 1993
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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 10:25:46 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Subject: re: Locking Keyboard Problem
To: "John J. Guettler" <jjg@tardis.svsu.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303031211.B26050-a100000@tardis.svsu.edu>
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On Wed, 3 Mar 1993 12:33:44 -0500 (EST), John J. Guettler wrote:
> I've just discovered that if I use the lock keyboard option, pine will not
> accept my correct password to unlock the keyboard, and I have to break my
> connection to force myself off the system.
>
> I'm also having a similar problem with the imapd in the pine distribution.
> It will not take a correct password, either.  I've telnet-ed to the imap
> port and tried entering the command by hand, but it responds with bad
> username or password.
>
> My system is a DECstation 5000/25 running ULTRIX V4.2A.  I'm also running
> at ENHANCED security level.  Could this be causing the problem?

That is almost certainly the problem.  Depending upon how ``secure'' your
system is, it may be impossible for an unprivileged task to verify a password.

The most common situation is that of ``shadow password files''.  This takes
the password information out of the password file and puts it in another file
that is supposed to have much stronger protection than the password file.

There are about as many different incompatible implementations of shadow
passwords as there are of UNIX.  Worse, even in the same flavor of UNIX there
are different implementations.  Some implementations are almost invisible; you
only need to relink Pine and imapd and everything will work.  Others require
code changes.  And in some of these, you simply can not win unless you have
root privileges.

All this to get around having a system call to validate passwords the way
other operating systems do...  :-(

The first thing to do in fixing the problem is to figure out what ENHANCED
security really means.  On ULTRIX 4.2A, try the following edits:

1) In c-client/makefile.ult, change the definition of LDFLAGS to be
	LDFLAGS = -lauth

2) In c-client/os_ult.h, add the line
	#include <auth.h>
   somewhere reasonable

3) In c-client/os_ult.c, in the routine server_login(), add the declaration
	struct authorization *au;
   and change the password test (the line after the comment ``validate
   password'') to be:
	if (!(au = getauthuid (pw->pw_uid)) ||
	    strcmp (au->a_password,crypt16 (pass,au->a_password)))
	  return NIL;		/* no shadow password or doesn't match */

Then rebuild.  You should get a working imapd out of this.  You may be able to
do something similar in Pine, depending upon how shadow passwords are
implemented -- as I said in some systems unprivileged processes are not
permitted to validate passwords.  imapd is alright since server_login() is
only called when imapd is not logged in (and thus is running with ID 0, giving
it root access).

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar  3 11:17:00 1993
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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 14:02:14 +22306404 (EST)
From: "Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g@virginia.edu>
Subject: Re: Locking Keyboard Problem
To: "John J. Guettler" <jjg@tardis.svsu.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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Message-Id: <Pine.3.05a.9303031413.B10686-b100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
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X-Status: 

On Wed, 3 Mar 1993, John J. Guettler wrote:

> I've just discovered that if I use the lock keyboard option, pine will not
> accept my correct password to unlock the keyboard, and I have to break my
> connection to force myself off the system.
> 
> I'm also having a similar problem with the imapd in the pine distribution.
> It will not take a correct password, either.  I've telnet-ed to the imap
> port and tried entering the command by hand, but it responds with bad
> username or password.
> 
> My system is a DECstation 5000/25 running ULTRIX V4.2A.  I'm also running
> at ENHANCED security level.  Could this be causing the problem?
> 

I've never seen those problems on either a Sun or an IBM-RS6000, so my
guess is yes - ENHANCED security is causing the problem. 

But I have no idea what that option does and I don't have a DECstation 
to try to duplicate it. 


===============================================================================
 Steven D. Majewski			University of Virginia 
 sdm7g@Virginia.EDU			Box 449 Health Sciences Center
 Voice: (804)-982-0831			1300 Jefferson Park Avenue
 FAX:   (804)-982-1616			Charlottesville, VA 22908



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar  3 13:16:07 1993
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 <01GVDF3BUCWG934TF0@ALPHA.NOAAPMEL.GOV>; Wed, 3 Mar 1993 13:01 PDT
Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 13:01 PDT
From: Laura McCarty <LMCCARTY@NOAAPMEL.GOV>
Subject: a VMS version of Pine
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <01GVDF3BUCWG934TF0@ALPHA.NOAAPMEL.GOV>
X-Vms-To: IN%"pine-info@cac.washington.edu"
X-Vms-Cc: LMCCARTY
Status: O
X-Status: 

Sheryl Erez at the UW Network Information Center has told us:

>Nope.  Pine doesn't run on VMS.  Many have asked about it and a few
>have cont


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar  3 13:45:25 1993
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Date: Wed, 3 Mar 1993 21:23:17 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
Subject: Emergency exit from Lockscreen
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303032117.A19215-9100000@suma1>
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This certainly aborts Pine, but seems to freeze the session anyway.
Could (should?) it log out too?

Mike

===================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,         D.M.Roch@Reading.ac.uk
University of Reading,                             Tel: 0734 318430
Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX.                    Fax: 0734 753094





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar  4 00:27:13 1993
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          id <16447-0@danpost4.uni-c.dk>; Thu, 4 Mar 1993 09:11:51 +0100
Subject: Re: Locking Keyboard Problem
To: sdm7g@virginia.edu (Steven D. Majewski)
Date: Thu, 4 Mar 1993 09:11:49 +0100 (MET)
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05a.9303031413.B10686-b100000@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU> from "Steven D. Majewski" at Mar 3, 93 02:02:14 pm
Organisation: UNI-C, Danish Computer Centre for Research and Education
X-Address: Building 305 DTH, DK-2800 Lyngby, Denmark
X-Phone: +45 45 93 83 55
X-Fax: +45 45 93 02 20
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
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From: Erik Lawaetz <Erik.Lawaetz@uni-c.dk>
Status: O
X-Status: 

> I've never seen those problems on either a Sun or an IBM-RS6000, so my
> guess is yes - ENHANCED security is causing the problem. 

You'll experience the same problem with SunOS, but SUN's approach
makes it a lot easier to patch than Ultrix.

--Erik


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar  5 08:23:13 1993
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Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 10:54:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "Peter W. Karlson" <pk@columbus.bwh.harvard.edu>
Subject: Pico printing?
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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I guess this question is for Mike Seibel, has anybody requested a print
function in Pico or are there any plans for adding it? 

-pk





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar  5 08:42:33 1993
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Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 11:31:02 -0500 (EST)
From: KaReN <kbourque@mhc.mtholyoke.edu>
Reply-To: KaReN <kbourque@mhc.mtholyoke.edu>
Subject: Is there a Pine FAQ?
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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I ask because I think I'm about to ask a couple of FAQs!!

1.  When will Pine's print command work over appletalk?
	(or does it already and I'm missing something)

2.  Is there a way to delete a batch of messages, rather than one at a time?

Thanks for any info!

Karen

  ____  ____    ____  _____   _________
 /___/ /___/|  /___/ /___ /| /_______ /|  *  Karen M. Bourque
 |   \/   | |  |   | |   | | |       | |  *  Senior Consultant
 |        | |  |   |_|   | | |   ____|/   *  User Services - CIS
 |  /\/\  | |  |   __    | | |   |_____   *  Mount Holyoke College
 |  |  |  | |  |   | |   | | |   |___/ |  *  South Hadley, MA 01075
 |  |  |  | |  |   | |   | | |       | |  *  kbourque@mhc.mtholyoke.edu
 |__|  |__|/   |___| |___|/  |_______|/   *  kbourque@mhc.bitnet
   
 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar  5 09:17:47 1993
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Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 12:01:40 -0500 (EST)
From: "John J. Guettler" <jjg@tardis.svsu.edu>
Subject: File movement control-key sequences
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: O
X-Status: 

Any talk of putting control-key sequences in Pico (and the Pine composer)
that will take you to the top or bottom of the file, or, perhaps, to a
specific line number?



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar  5 09:18:04 1993
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Date: Fri, 5 Mar 1993 09:00:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Seibel <mikes@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Pico printing?
To: "Peter W. Karlson" <pk@columbus.bwh.harvard.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303051040.B8310-8100000@columbus>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303050907.h24359-a100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
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It's been on the list for a while, but finding the time and command key to
implement it is the problem!  One option (if it's "attached-to-ansi"
support you're looking for) might be the short ansiprt.c utility included
in the contrib source.  It won't solve the printing from within pico
problem, but could be used to support local printing similar to pine but
from the system command prompt. 

Hope this helps!

Michael Seibel
Networks and Distributed Computing              mikes@cac.washington.edu
University of Washington, Seattle               (206) 543 - 0359



On Fri, 5 Mar 1993, Peter W. Karlson wrote:

> I guess this question is for Mike Seibel, has anybody requested a print
> function in Pico or are there any plans for adding it? 
> 
> -pk
> 
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  8 20:19:01 1993
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 22:50:28 +0500 ()
From: Dan Mandell <dmandell@saintmarys.edu>
Reply-To: Dan Mandell <dmandell@saintmarys.edu>
Subject: imap installation doc?
To: "pine-info@cac.washington.edu" <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.03.9303082255.A687-a100000@jade.saintmarys.edu>
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X-Status: 

We have been using NFS to mount the mail directory on HP systems, but
we are finding that if the arrangement is susceptible to any failure of
mail server or network.  The login procedure checks a NFS directory for
new mail and never completes the login process.

So I have been attempting to install the IMAP demon received with the Pine
3.03 distribution. Without benefit of installation instructions, I'm not
sure where we stand.  I have made an entry in our inetd.conf, and
inetd.sec and services files, but imap seems dysfunctional: I can neither
telnet to the port assigned this service, nor execute the imapd demon as a
background task.  When invoking imapd, it displays the following
* OK jade.saintmarys.edu IMAP2+ Service 6.6(43) at ...date 
but then seems to die.  

Dan 

--
=====================================
Dan Mandell, Academic Computing       
Saint Mary's College                
Internet: dmandell@saintmarys.edu






From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar  8 22:45:26 1993
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Date: Mon, 8 Mar 1993 22:29:41 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: imap installation doc?
To: Dan Mandell <dmandell@saintmarys.edu>
Cc: pine-info@CAC.Washington.EDU
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.03.9303082255.A687-a100000@jade.saintmarys.edu>
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Dan -

     It doesn't sound like you have done anything wrong.  More specifically,
it seems that you've done everything necessary.  It sounds to me as if it is
starting up and then crashing.  There should be installation instructions in
the c-client README file.  Here's an extract:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

     The Unix servers ipop2d, ipop3d, and imapd should be installed in
a system daemon directory, and invoked by your /etc/inetd.conf file
with lines such as:
	pop	stream	tcp	nowait	root	/usr/local/etc/ipop2d	ipop2d
	pop3	stream	tcp	nowait	root	/usr/local/etc/ipop3d	ipop3d
	imap	stream	tcp	nowait	root	/usr/local/etc/imapd	imapd
You may also have to edit your /etc/services (or Yellow Pages,
Netinfo, etc. equivalent) to register these services, e.g.
	pop		109/tcp		postoffice
	pop3		110/tcp
	imap		143/tcp

     If you want to enable the rimap capability, which allows users with a
suitable client and .rhosts file on the server to access IMAP services
without transmitting her password in the clear over the network, you need
to have /etc/rimapd as a link to the real copy of imapd.  Assuming you have
imapd installed on /usr/local/etc as above:
	% ln -s /usr/local/etc/imapd /etc/rimapd

     Technical note: rimap works by having the client routine tcp_aopen()
invoke `rsh _host_ exec /etc/rimapd' in an child process, and then
returning pipes to that process' standard I/O instead of a TCP socket.  You
can set up `e-mail only accounts' by making the shell be something which
accepts only that string and not ordinary Unix shell commands.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------

     I assume you also know that you have to send a HUP signal to inetd (or
reboot your system) before any changes to /etc/inetd.conf take effect?

     Try running imapd on your terminal, perhaps under gdb, and see if it
crashes in any obvious way.  If you run it on your terminal, you'll get a
	* PREAUTH jade.saintmarys.edu IMAP2+ Service 6.6(43) at ...date
instead of
	* OK jade.saintmarys.edu IMAP2+ Service 6.6(43) at ...date
that just means it's meaningless to log in (since you're already logged in).

     I don't have any HP systems here, and the HP port was supplied by a user.
So I can't advise you much further at this point.  But, if you can't figure it
out (that is, if the cause of the problem isn't obvious when you run it on
your terminal), contact me again.  Perhaps if you can let me on your system
I'll be able to figure it out and give you a fix/instructions on what to do.

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  9 01:08:57 1993
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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 09:00:40 +0000
To: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
From: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
X-Sender: suqroch@suma1.rdg.ac.uk
Subject: IMAP and POP
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

>     The Unix servers ipop2d, ipop3d, and imapd should be installed in
>a system daemon directory, and invoked by your /etc/inetd.conf file
>with lines such as:
>        pop     stream  tcp     nowait  root    /usr/local/etc/ipop2d   ipop2d
>        pop3    stream  tcp     nowait  root    /usr/local/etc/ipop3d   ipop3d
>        imap    stream  tcp     nowait  root    /usr/local/etc/imapd    imapd
>You may also have to edit your /etc/services (or Yellow Pages,
>Netinfo, etc. equivalent) to register these services, e.g.
>        pop             109/tcp         postoffice
>        pop3            110/tcp
>        imap            143/tcp
>

Mark,

We're also considering running IMAP alongside a system with NFS shared
mailboxes. We already have pop2 (from PC-NFS) and pop3 (popper from
Berkeley) set up here. Would we _have_ to change to ipopd2 and ipopd3 ?

Mike

=======================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,             D.M.Roch@Reading.ac.uk
University of Reading, Whiteknights,                   Tel: 0734 318430
Reading, RG6 2AX, UK                                   Fax: 0734 753094



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  9 03:12:20 1993
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          id <04267-0@danpost4.uni-c.dk>; Tue, 9 Mar 1993 11:42:12 +0100
Subject: Re: IMAP and POP
To: D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk (Mike Roch)
Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 11:42:08 +0100 (MET)
Cc: MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <27088.9303090859@suma2> from "Mike Roch" at Mar 9, 93 09:00:40 am
Organisation: UNI-C, Danish Computer Centre for Research and Education
X-Address: Building 305 DTH, DK-2800 Lyngby, Denmark
X-Phone: +45 45 93 83 55
X-Fax: +45 45 93 02 20
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 432
From: Erik Lawaetz <Erik.Lawaetz@uni-c.dk>
Status: O
X-Status: 

> We're also considering running IMAP alongside a system with NFS shared
> mailboxes. We already have pop2 (from PC-NFS) and pop3 (popper from
> Berkeley) set up here. Would we _have_ to change to ipopd2 and ipopd3 ?

I don't see why you'd  _have_  to change to ipopd[23]. And I'm not
sure whether ipop3d supports the XTND POP command set, which popper
supports. You need that if you're sending messages via the POP server.

--Erik


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  9 03:29:33 1993
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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 09:48:04 +0000 (GMT)
From: "Michael J. Sheppard" <mikes@genasys.co.uk>
Subject: Pine requiring logon when using remote imapd
To: pine-info@CAC.Washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303090904.A20476-a100000@brains>
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Hi,

I have pine running on a HP 9000/730 talking to imapd running on a Sparc
system. No matter how I seem to set up my /etc/hosts.equiv, .rhosts,
.netrc I cannot get pine to start up without prompting me to logon to the
Sparc system.

I have no problem with any other programs which use the rexec mechanism,
they all let me on without prompting for the password.

Has anyone any ideas about this, my users are getting a little tired of
having to type in their password whenever they want to read their mail.

Thanks in advance,

   ////| Michael Sheppard      E-mail : mikes@genasys.co.uk
  //// | System Administrator  Voice  : +44.(0)61.232.9444
 ////__| GENASYS II Ltd        Fax    : +44.(0)61.232.9453



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  9 03:42:19 1993
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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 13:34:23 +0200 (IST)
From: OFER Lapid 4X6OJ <ofer@eng.tau.ac.il>
Subject: A little buggy
To: pine-info@CAC.Washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303090904.A20476-a100000@brains>
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Whenever pine is used over dialup line I get this annoying behaviour that
many keystrokes are left in the buffer while the screen is drawn and are
executed later causing a very bad navigation problem.
Take a good example from rn which flushes the input buffer just after
sending the text to the screen and prior to getting the next command.

--
Ofer Lapid 4X6OJ
E-mail: ofer@eng.tau.ac.il




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  9 03:51:12 1993
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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 11:33:21 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Cornelius <Barry.Cornelius@durham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Pine requiring logon when using remote imapd
To: "Michael J. Sheppard" <mikes@genasys.co.uk>
Cc: pine-info@CAC.Washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303090904.A20476-a100000@brains>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05:930225.9303091120.A29469-b100000@wansbeck.dur.ac.uk>
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On Tue, 9 Mar 1993, Michael J. Sheppard wrote:

> I have pine running on a HP 9000/730 talking to imapd running on a Sparc
> system. No matter how I seem to set up my /etc/hosts.equiv, .rhosts,
> .netrc I cannot get pine to start up without prompting me to logon to the
> Sparc system.
> ...

Setting the inbox-path to use a remote IMAP inbox and linking /etc/rimapd
to /usr/etc/imapd on the remote machine works when pine is executed on a
Sun workstation.  If pine is executed on an HP workstation, it asks you
for your username and password. 

A call of execl in c-client/os_hpp.c uses the Unix remote shell command.
The code says:
   execl ("/usr/ucb/rsh","rsh",hostname,"exec",service,0);
On the HPs, the binary of the remote shell command is in /usr/bin/remsh and
not in /usr/ucb/rsh.   So the code needs to be:
   execl ("/usr/bin/remsh","remsh",hostname,"exec",service,0);

I have recently installed pine for both Suns and HPs.  There are other bug
fixes that I have made.  Some of these are to fix code that is incorrect
for the HPs, some are for both Suns and HPs.  I will send these bug fixes in
soon.

--
Barry Cornelius            Electronic mail: Barry.Cornelius@durham.ac.uk
Post:  Computing Service, University of Durham, Durham, DH1 3LE, England
Phone: Durham (091 or +44 91) 374 4717, Secretary:374 2892, Fax:374 3741




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  9 07:32:12 1993
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From: Pete Holsberg <pjh@mccc.edu>
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unsubscribe
-- 
Prof. Peter J. Holsberg      Mercer County Community College
Voice: 609-586-4800          Engineering Technology, Computers and Math
FAX: 609-586-6944            1200 Old Trenton Road, Trenton, NJ 08690
Internet: pjh@mccc.edu       Trenton Computer Festival: April 17-18, 1993



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  9 08:00:32 1993
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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 07:53:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: IMAP and POP
To: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <27088.9303090859@suma2>
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On Tue, 9 Mar 1993 09:00:40 +0000, Mike Roch wrote:
> We're also considering running IMAP alongside a system with NFS shared
> mailboxes. We already have pop2 (from PC-NFS) and pop3 (popper from
> Berkeley) set up here. Would we _have_ to change to ipopd2 and ipopd3 ?

No, there is no requirement to run ipop2d or ipop3d, unless of course you want
to use their POP -> IMAP conversion services.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  9 09:14:35 1993
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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 16:40:41 +0000 (GMT)
From: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
Subject: re: IMAP and POP
To: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Cc: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <MailManager.731692380.4596.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
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On Tue, 9 Mar 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:

> > mailboxes. We already have pop2 (from PC-NFS) and pop3 (popper from
> > Berkeley) set up here. Would we _have_ to change to ipopd2 and ipopd3 ?
> 
> No, there is no requirement to run ipop2d or ipop3d, unless of course you want
> to use their POP -> IMAP conversion services.

Ah! What are these? (Have I overlooked some docs on this?)

Mike


==============================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,                          Tel: 0734 318430
The University, Whiteknights, Reading, RG6 2AX.               Fax: 0734 753094




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  9 09:17:50 1993
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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 12:09:21 -0500
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To: Mark Crispin <MRC@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: re: IMAP and POP
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On Mar 9,  7:53, Mark Crispin wrote:
> Subject: re: IMAP and POP
> Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
> Message-Id: <MailManager.731692380.4596.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
> 
> No, there is no requirement to run ipop2d or ipop3d, unless of course you want
> to use their POP -> IMAP conversion services.
> 
> -- End of excerpt from Mark Crispin <MRC@cac.washington.edu>


What exactly is the POP -> IMAP conversion service ? 
I had popper installed for pop before I installed the imap server,
so I haven't used the ipop* features. 

( Ok, I suppose I should Find and Read the FM, but I figured as long
as  your on the subject already ... ) 

- Steve Majewski  <sdm7g@Virginia.EDU>



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar  9 09:25:17 1993
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Date: Tue, 9 Mar 1993 09:13:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: IMAP and POP
To: "Steven D. Majewski" <sdm7g@elvis.med.virginia.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu, imap@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <199303091709.AA12702@elvis.med.Virginia.EDU>
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On Tue, 9 Mar 1993 12:09:21 -0500, Steven D. Majewski wrote:
> What exactly is the POP -> IMAP conversion service ?
> I had popper installed for pop before I installed the imap server,
> so I haven't used the ipop* features.

In both ipop2d and ipop3d, you can do a POP login with a user name of the form
host:user which will connect you to that host's IMAP server.

That is, if I connect to POP server foo and log in as bar:mrc with my password
on bar, I will be reading my IMAP mailbox on bar using POP.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 10 02:32:03 1993
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To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
From: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
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Subject: Pine and Solaris
Status: O
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We are expecting to have a SparcCenter 2000 here by the Autumn; it will run
Solaris 2.x. Does anyone know/believe/have_a_gut-feeling that Pine will
compile ok in this environment, or is some porting work likely to be
necessary?

Mike

=======================================================================
Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,             D.M.Roch@Reading.ac.uk
University of Reading, Whiteknights,                   Tel: 0734 318430
Reading, RG6 2AX, UK                                   Fax: 0734 753094



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 10 06:18:27 1993
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 08:46:54 +0500 ()
From: Dan Mandell <dmandell@saintmarys.edu>
Subject: Updating user's .pinerc
To: "pine-info@cac.washington.edu" <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.03.9303100854.A2683-9100000@jade.saintmarys.edu>
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I'd like to turn off elm-style-saving for Pine 3.03 clients but
people already have a .pinerc file. Is there anyway short of including a
login script to remove their old .pinerc that we can instruct pine to
overwrite the old user .pinerc.
Thanks,
Dan
 -- 
=====================================
Dan Mandell, Academic Computing       
Saint Mary's College                
Internet: dmandell@saintmarys.edu




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 10 07:18:11 1993
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Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 07:04:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Updating user's .pinerc
To: Dan Mandell <dmandell@saintmarys.edu>
Cc: "pine-info@cac.washington.edu" <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.03.9303100854.A2683-9100000@jade.saintmarys.edu>
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Dan,
I can't think of an easy way to turn it off globally, other than
recompiling the source.  However, by popular demand the next version will
always save to the mail directory, even when you override the default
folder name.  When that version is installed, Pine will also automatically
change the name of the option in the config file (since it is no longer using
Elm's semantics.)

-teg


On Wed, 10 Mar 1993, Dan Mandell wrote:

> 
> I'd like to turn off elm-style-saving for Pine 3.03 clients but
> people already have a .pinerc file. Is there anyway short of including a
> login script to remove their old .pinerc that we can instruct pine to
> overwrite the old user .pinerc.
> Thanks,
> Dan
>  -- 
> =====================================
> Dan Mandell, Academic Computing       
> Saint Mary's College                
> Internet: dmandell@saintmarys.edu
> 
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 10 09:37:29 1993
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Reply-To: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303100948.B1418-b100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
Date:       Wed, 10 Mar 1993 09:19:49 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
To: Pine Announcement Distribution <pine-announce@cac.washington.edu>
Subject:    pine on linux for the taking... (fwd)
X-Owner:    pine-announce-request@cac.washington.edu
X-To:       pine-announce@cac.washington.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

FYI

-teg

---------- Forwarded message ----------
> >Newsgroups: comp.os.linux.announce
> >From: B.Bergt@Informatik.tu-chemnitz.de (Birko Bergt)
> >Subject: ANNOUNCE: PINE 3.05 is on sunsite.unc.edu and tsx-11.mit.edu
> >Organization: University of Technology Chemnitz, FRG
> 
> Hello Linuxer,
> 	
> 	I have uploaded PINE 3.05 ELECTRONIC MAIL program compiled for Linux
> 	to sunsite.unc.edu and tsx-11.mit.edu as pine-3.05.{src,bin}.tar.Z.
> 
> 	In germany Linux PINE is available at nix7.informatik.tu-chemnitz.de
> 	(134.109.240.17) via anon-ftp in /pub/src and /pub/bin.
> 	
> 	The contents of the binary distribution:
> 
> 	drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 Mar  9 13:19 1993 ./usr/
> 	drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 Mar  9 13:21 1993 ./usr/bin/
> 	-rwxr-xr-x root/root    119812 Mar  9 13:21 1993 ./usr/bin/pico
> 	-rwxr-xr-x root/root    734212 Mar  9 13:21 1993 ./usr/bin/pine
> 	drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 Mar  9 13:21 1993 ./usr/etc/
> 	-rwxr-xr-x root/root    263172 Mar  9 13:21 1993 ./usr/etc/mtest
> 	-rwxr-xr-x root/root    246788 Mar  9 13:21 1993 ./usr/etc/imapd
> 	drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 Mar  9 13:19 1993 ./usr/man/
> 	drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 Mar  9 13:20 1993 ./usr/man/man1/
> 	-rw-r--r-- root/root      4171 Mar  9 13:20 1993 ./usr/man/man1/pico.1
> 	-rw-r--r-- root/root      5853 Mar  9 13:20 1993 ./usr/man/man1/pine.1
> 	drwxr-xr-x root/root         0 Mar  9 13:20 1993 ./usr/man/man8/
> 	-rw-r--r-- root/root       977 Mar  9 13:20 1993 ./usr/man/man8/imapd.8
> 	-rw-r--r-- root/root      1629 Mar  9 13:27 1993 ./.pinerc
> 	-rw-r--r-- root/root      3437 Mar  9 14:22 1993 ./README.pine-3.05
> 
> [description of pine munched]
> 
> --
> Birko Bergt			Technical University of Chemnitz/Zwickau
> bergt@informatik.tu-chemnitz.de	PSF 964, DO-9010 Chemnitz, Germany
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 10 15:52:50 1993
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	id AA13073; Wed, 10 Mar 93 15:41:41 PST
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 15:38:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Kirschbaum <mkirschb@fred.fhcrc.org>
Subject: French usage
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303101518.A12966-9100000@fred>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

	We have a new postdoc in our lab that regularly corresponds with
France for lab reasons and was wondering whether there are ways to do this
with pine. Also, a friend of mine at Harvard does not have a mail-editor
and I know pine is public access. Is there some way I can email it to him,
or get it by anonymous ftp for him?

                                             Mark H Kirschbaum, md

Internet: mkirschb@fred.fhcrc.org




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 10 16:05:40 1993
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Received: by camelot.bradley.edu id AA18227
  (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for "pine-info@cac.washington.edu" <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>); Wed, 10 Mar 1993 17:55:48 -0600
Date: Wed, 10 Mar 1993 17:54:44 -0500 (CDT)
From: Matt Simmons <zarthac@camelot.bradley.edu>
Subject: Re: Updating user's .pinerc
To: Dan Mandell <dmandell@saintmarys.edu>
Cc: "pine-info@cac.washington.edu" <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.03.9303100854.A2683-9100000@jade.saintmarys.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303101743.A17855-a100000@camelot.bradley.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, 10 Mar 1993, Dan Mandell wrote:
> I'd like to turn off elm-style-saving for Pine 3.03 clients but
> people already have a .pinerc file. Is there anyway short of including a
> login script to remove their old .pinerc that we can instruct pine to
> overwrite the old user .pinerc.
> Thanks,
> Dan
Well, you could use find to get the paths of all of the .pinerc files, and
then write a script to recopy the users .pinerc files, but changing the
line you want as it writes...


zarthac@camelot.bradley.edu                     Insert 
                                                        picture 
                                                                 here
          Insert  witty quote here





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 12 04:10:45 1993
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Received: from bgumail.bgu.ac.il by BGUVM.BGU.AC.IL (IBM VM SMTP V2R2) with TCP;
   Fri, 12 Mar 93 13:43:02 IST
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 13:01:51 +0200 (IST)
From: Eran Lachs <eran@bgumail.bgu.ac.il>
Subject: mail notification
To: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303121351.A4708-a100000@bgumail.bgu.ac.il>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hello,

   Our environment consists a Decstation running as the mail-server (where
all user's mailboxes live). It runs imapd and has Pine locally installed.
Pine is installed on all other servers ("satellite" machines) and is
well-behaved. I loved the idea of not mounting the mail spool directory.
Our users like it a lot. I've been asked to implement mail notification. 
I have two unresolved problems:
(i) Notifying a user logging on to a "satellite" machine that he/she has
    new mail on the mail-server.
(ii) Notifying a user working on a "satellite" machine upon arrival of new mail
     to his/her mailbox on the mail-server.

Anybody tackled this ?  Thanks in advance for any info.

Eran Lachs   (eran@bgumail.bgu.ac.il)
Ben Gurion University Computation Center
Beer Sheva, Israel



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 12 05:58:57 1993
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	(5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA13423; Fri, 12 Mar 93 05:48:37 -0800
Received: by acad.csv.kutztown.edu (5.61/1.35)
	id AA19698; Fri, 12 Mar 93 08:45:46 -0500
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 08:40:45 -0500 (EST)
From: "James D. Gillmore" <gillmore@acad.csv.kutztown.edu>
Subject: Re: French usage
To: Mark Kirschbaum <mkirschb@fred.fhcrc.org>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303101518.A12966-9100000@fred>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303120843.A18791-b100000@acad.csv.kutztown.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Wed, 10 Mar 1993, Mark Kirschbaum wrote:

> 	We have a new postdoc in our lab that regularly corresponds with
> France for lab reasons and was wondering whether there are ways to do this
> with pine. 
If these people in France have connection to the net they can get items
mailed in pine even if they user a mailer that is not as well made as pine.
I may be missing the point in your question but both sites don't have to
be on pine.
Also,  a friend of mine at Harvard does not have a mail-editor
> and I know pine is public access. Is there some way I can email it to him,
> or get it by anonymous ftp for him?
> 
> Internet: mkirschb@fred.fhcrc.org
> 
You could ftp it to your account and attach it to a letter that seems
rather harsh though. 


______________________________________________________________________________
Jim Gillmore    	       	E-mail          gillmore@acad.csv.kutztown.edu
Manager Network Services 			            VOICE 215.683.4199
Kutztown University of PA			              FAX 215.683.4634
LMS Annex Room 105				             HOME 717.865.5820
				              Holidays & Weekends 717.567.3931
WE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN TRUCK DRIVERS:
The Vehicle has changed ..... It is a micro computer not an 18 Wheeler,
The Highway has changed ..... It is Fiber Optic not Black Top,
The Cargo   has changed ..... It is Data Packets not Boxes,
The Concept, Delivering Goods and Services, Remains Constant!  
______________________________________________________________________________




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 12 07:02:29 1993
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	(5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA01668; Fri, 12 Mar 93 06:55:12 -0800
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Date: 	Fri, 12 Mar 1993 09:50:14 -0500
From: Andy Poling <andy@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu>
Subject: Re: mail notification
To: Eran Lachs <eran@bgumail.bgu.ac.il>
Cc: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303121351.A4708-a100000@bgumail.bgu.ac.il>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303120912.D4501-b100000@jhunix3.hcf.jhu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Fri, 12 Mar 1993, Eran Lachs wrote:
>    Our environment consists a Decstation running as the mail-server (where
> all user's mailboxes live). It runs imapd and has Pine locally installed.
> Pine is installed on all other servers ("satellite" machines) and is
> well-behaved. I loved the idea of not mounting the mail spool directory.
> Our users like it a lot. I've been asked to implement mail notification. 
> I have two unresolved problems:
> (i) Notifying a user logging on to a "satellite" machine that he/she has
>     new mail on the mail-server.
> (ii) Notifying a user working on a "satellite" machine upon arrival of new mail
>      to his/her mailbox on the mail-server.
> 
> Anybody tackled this ?  Thanks in advance for any info.

Yes and no.  He have a similar environment - tightly coupled cluster of
workstations with a fileserver.

I have solved (ii) above by running a modified comsat daemon on the fileserver
which forwards the comsat requests it receives to each workstation on the
cluster.  It didn't take much code and works simply and reliably.  I can
provide the modified comsat code to anybody who is interested.

As for (i) - I have the mail spool mounted around because not everybody wants
to use pine anyway here...

-Andy

Andy Poling                              Internet: andy@jhunix.hcf.jhu.edu
UNIX Systems Programmer                  Bitnet: ANDY@JHUNIX
Homewood Academic Computing              Voice: (410)516-8096    
Johns Hopkins University                 UUCP: uunet!mimsy!aplcen!jhunix!andy



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 12 09:24:57 1993
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	id AA01274; Fri, 12 Mar 93 11:12:10 -0600
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 11:10:18 -0600 (GMT-060
From: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" <deviate@lipschitz.sfasu.edu>
Subject: Segmentation fault
To: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303121118.B1264-9100000@lipschitz>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 


Does anyone know why this is happening?
I reply to a message and try to include the original. Pine dies in a
Segmentation fault.




__________________________________________________________________________
Include original message in Reply? (y/n) [n]: YesSegmentation fault       
     
? Help       M Main Menu  P Prev Msg     - Prev Page  F Forward   
deviate> 
O OTHER CMDS I Mail Index N Next Msg SPACE Next Page  R Reply       S Save





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 12 12:38:17 1993
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Received: from Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM by Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU
	(NX5.67c/UW-NDC Revision: 2.26 ) id AA08921; Fri, 12 Mar 93 12:31:52 -0800
Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 12:31:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <mrc@shivafs.cac.washington.edu>
Subject: re: Segmentation fault
To: "Kelly Cunningham (Random Deviate)" <deviate@lipschitz.sfasu.edu>
Cc: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303121118.B1264-9100000@lipschitz>
Message-Id: <MS-C.731968268.368800899.mrc@shivafs.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

Kelley -

     Can you forward the message that causes the crash to me?  I suspect this
is due to a bug that has already been fixed, but I need to see the message to
be sure.

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 12 13:23:00 1993
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	sendmail 5.67/UCSD-2.2-sun via SMTP
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Date: Fri, 12 Mar 1993 13:14:58 -0800
From: corrigan@weber.UCSD.EDU (Michael J. Corrigan)
Message-Id: <199303122114.AA24454@weber.UCSD.EDU>
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Subject: Pine Message-Id: subcomponent values query
Status: O
X-Status: 


Three questions about the Message-Id: field that Pine generates:

Pine.3.05.YYMMDDHHMM.Xpid-number@host
                ^^^^      ^^^^^^ ^^^^

Is HHMM is "supposed to be" GMT or localtime ?
Should host be a fqdn ?
Where does the value in 'number' come from ?

Any information on these questions would be appreciated.
Thanks
-Mike Corrigan


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 14 18:21:40 1993
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	id AA12959; Sun, 14 Mar 93 21:06:58 -0500
Message-Id: <9303150206.AA12959@sunyit.edu>
From: pat@sunyit.edu (Patrick Fitzgibbons)
Date: Sun, 14 Mar 1993 21:06:58 -0500
Organization: SUNY INSTITUTE OF TECHNOLOGY
Phone-Number: (315) 792-7149
Fax-Number: (315) 792-7800
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Subject: -request
Status: O
X-Status: 

Please add me to the PINE discussion list.

Regards,

Pat Fitzgibbons
SUNY Institute of Technology


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 15 01:16:32 1993
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	(5.61/IDA-1.2.8+Kim) id AA22838; Mon, 15 Mar 93 11:04:17 +0200
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 93 11:04:17 +0200
From: Hannu Martikka <Hannu.Martikka@lut.fi>
Message-Id: <9303150904.AA22838@taipaani.cc.lut.fi>
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Subject: Local Patch: Pine can handle several different filetypes.
References: <Pine.3.05.9303101518.A12966-9100000@fred>
	<Pine.3.05.9303120843.A18791-b100000@acad.csv.kutztown.edu>
Mailer: VM 5.31 (beta) / GNU Emacs 18.58.4
Reply-To: Hannu Martikka <Hannu.Martikka@lut.fi>
Organization: Lappeenranta University of Technology, Finland
Status: O
X-Status: 


Hi!

Has anyone added more filetypes to pine?
Since Pine can display only couple of different filetypes (gif,tif +
it knows PS-files that start with '#!PS') I made quick hack and added
some more...:)

I added file-magic to pine. Our pine now consults file-command (see
/etc/magic) to determine filetype. As far as I know this is UNIX
specific command. I also made some small changes so we can display
pictures (tif,gif,jpeg,ppm,...) and PS-files. 

--
Regards from Goodi
______________________________________________________________________________
Internet: Hannu.Martikka@lut.fi  / \  
Bitnet  : GOODGULF@FINFILES     // \\             \-\-\-\-\-\-\	oh5lhh
Hannu Martikka,Skinnarilankatu /// \\\ 	            |		on 70cm	
28 F17, 53850 Lappeenranta,SF /// | \\\_____________|________________________
Tel. +358-(9)53-251446		  | :) Lappeenranta University Of Technology |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 15 17:25:01 1993
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 17:09:47 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Attachment file types
To: Mike Scheuerman <mikes@techbook.com>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <m0nYQ64-0006XwC@techbook.techbook.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303151723.F11605-b100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 


On Mon, 15 Mar 1993, Mike Scheuerman wrote:

> We've been testing the file attachment piece of pine and are having some
> difficulty in understanding why some files are tagged as
> 'APPLICATION/octet-stream'.  We attempted to attach signature file which is
> a plain ASCII text file and for some reason Pine thought it was an
> application file.  Are there known problems in this area or are we doing
> something wrong?

Mike,
The answer is "known problems".

A similar question came our way recently, so I'll just repeat that exchange...

> P.S.  pine can't seem to display attached text files.  Is this
> normal for this version (3.05)?

Alas, normal for 3.05, but it will be fixed in the next release.
MIME is pretty new, and the mechanism for indicating whether a body part is an
attachment or an in-line inclusion is only now getting sorted out.  We used an
application datatype rather than a text datatype for attached text files in
order to help distinguish the two cases, but it is clear now that the attached
text files should be typed TEXT/PLAIN, in which case they will be displayable.

A few other MIME encoding problems will also be fixed in the next release.

-teg




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 15 17:06:07 1993
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 	id <m0nYQ64-0006XwC@techbook.techbook.com>; Mon, 15 Mar 93 17:05 PST
Message-Id: <m0nYQ64-0006XwC@techbook.techbook.com>
From: mikes@techbook.com (Mike Scheuerman)
Subject: Attachment file types
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 17:05:33 -0800 (PST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL12]
Mime-Version: 1.0
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We've been testing the file attachment piece of pine and are having some
difficulty in understanding why some files are tagged as
'APPLICATION/octet-stream'.  We attempted to attach signature file which is
a plain ASCII text file and for some reason Pine thought it was an
application file.  Are there known problems in this area or are we doing
something wrong?

The file we were attempting to attach as a test is below.

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Michael Scheuerman                      email:          mikes@cmsicor1
CMSI Incorporated                       Voice Phone     503/227-0600
0234 SW Bancroft                        Fax Phone       503/222-5238
Portland, OR  97201
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Are the dashes a problem?

Thanks for the input.

Mike Scheuerman
mikes@techbook.com


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 15 18:15:39 1993
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 21:01:55 +0500 ()
From: Dan Mandell <dmandell@saintmarys.edu>
Subject: Pine Attachments & Eudora
To: "pine-info@cac.washington.edu" <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.03.9303152155.A11069-a100000@jade.saintmarys.edu>
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We have tried sending Word Perfect (binary) files as attachments within 
pine to friends using Popmail and Eudora without much success, and haven't
resolved the issues.  Could we hear from those with experience of Pop mail
clients as well as Pine whether we should expect to be able to send Word
Perfect binary file attachments with pine and have the pop clients handle
them.

Dan

--
=====================================
Dan Mandell, Academic Computing       
Saint Mary's College                
Internet: dmandell@saintmarys.edu




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 15 19:00:29 1993
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 18:42:17 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Pine Attachments & Eudora
To: Dan Mandell <dmandell@saintmarys.edu>
Cc: "pine-info@cac.washington.edu" <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.03.9303152155.A11069-a100000@jade.saintmarys.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303151816.H11605-a100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Status: 

Dan,
Eudora and Popmail predate the Internet standard for attachments (MIME) and so
are not yet compatible with mailers (e.g. Pine) that use MIME's Base64
encoding.  I've heard that MIME support is planned for the next version of
Eudora; don't know about Popmail.

-teg


On Mon, 15 Mar 1993, Dan Mandell wrote:

> 
> We have tried sending Word Perfect (binary) files as attachments within 
> pine to friends using Popmail and Eudora without much success, and haven't
> resolved the issues.  Could we hear from those with experience of Pop mail
> clients as well as Pine whether we should expect to be able to send Word
> Perfect binary file attachments with pine and have the pop clients handle
> them.
> 
> Dan
> 
> --
> =====================================
> Dan Mandell, Academic Computing       
> Saint Mary's College                
> Internet: dmandell@saintmarys.edu
> 
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 15 19:01:47 1993
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Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1993 21:42:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Paul Jones <pjones@mento.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: Re: Pine Attachments & Eudora
To: Dan Mandell <dmandell@saintmarys.edu>
Cc: "pine-info@cac.washington.edu" <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>,
        mailstrom mime project <dsouza@cs.unc.edu>, every@cs.unc.edu,
        Judson Knott <knott@mento.oit.unc.edu>, lari@cs.unc.edu,
        manlove@cs.unc.edu, norton@cs.unc.edu, paul_jones@unc.edu,
        treister@sumex-aim.stanford.edu, winslett@cs.unc.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.03.9303152155.A11069-a100000@jade.saintmarys.edu>
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On Mon, 15 Mar 1993, Dan Mandell wrote:

> 
> We have tried sending Word Perfect (binary) files as attachments within 
> pine to friends using Popmail and Eudora without much success, and haven't
> resolved the issues.  Could we hear from those with experience of Pop mail
> clients as well as Pine whether we should expect to be able to send Word
> Perfect binary file attachments with pine and have the pop clients handle
> them.
We have a group here working on adding MIME support to Mailstrom (a Mac
IMAP client). I've included them in this message along with Adam Tressler
(who wrote Mailstrom) in the hope that they might speak to your
problems. I think they might reccommend using IMAP instead of POP and
Mailstrom instead of Eudora. ;->
> =====================================
> Dan Mandell, Academic Computing       
> Saint Mary's College                
> Internet: dmandell@saintmarys.edu
==============================================
       Paul Jones
       Office FOR Information Technology
       University of North Carolina
       Chapel Hill, NC
       Paul_Jones@unc.edu
 Self-determination for Kernow, Alba, Cymru, Eire, Mannin, and Breizh> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar 16 09:59:50 1993
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	id AA26901; Tue, 16 Mar 93 12:55:05 EST
Date: 	Tue, 16 Mar 1993 12:53:52 -0500
From: Ian Lumb <ian@vortex.yorku.ca>
Subject: macros (fwd)
To: PINE INFO <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Cc: Judy Libman <judy@unicaat.sci.yorku.ca>
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--1392560893-2039188667-732304504:#26880
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

Greetings:-

A user is interested in the use of macros, and I was wondering if pine
supports this sort of thing?

TIA,

Ian.



--
Ian Lumb     Internet: <ian@vortex.yorku.ca>
Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817

--1392560893-2039188667-732304504:#26880
Content-Type: MESSAGE/RFC822
Content-ID: <Pine.3.05.9303161252.C26880@vortex.yorku.ca>
Content-Description: Forwarded message 'macros'

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Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 09:12:58 -0500 (EST)
From: Judy Libman {Academic/Liaison Officer} <judy@unicaat.yorku.ca>
Subject: macros
To: Ian Lumb <ian@unicaat.yorku.ca>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303160958.I22819-a100000@unicaat.sci.yorku.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Ian,

An example of the type of macro I would find very useful would be a
hot-key that could type "vm2.yorku.ca".  SImilarly, on WP I use a macro
for "Faculty of Pure and Applied Science", "Norman Bethune College", and
other oft-repeated goodies.  Since the editor on pine is so
word-processor-like, I now compose things directly instead of using WP and
converting to ASCII, etc.  So a few WP-type features would be nice
additions!  

Judy

--
Judy Libman            Internet: <judy@unicaat.sci.yorku.ca>
Norman Bethune College / Faculty of Pure and Applied Science
York University, North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
Voice: (416) 736-2100 ext. 33940; Fax: (416) 736-5950



--1392560893-2039188667-732304504:#26880--



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar 16 11:44:36 1993
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Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 16:39:10 -0300 (EST)
From: Carlos Gustavo Werner <werner@iansan.inf.puc-rio.br>
Subject: unsubscribe me
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303161610.B2821-9100000@iansan>
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	Please,

		UNSUBscribe me.

        __________________________________________________
        C.Gustavo Werner
        Email: werner@inf.puc-rio.br
        Pontificia Universidade Catolica do Rio de Janeiro 
        Brazil____________________________________________





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Tue Mar 16 16:18:11 1993
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Date: Tue, 16 Mar 1993 19:03:55 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Is there a Pine FAQ?
To: KaReN <kbourque@mhc.mtholyoke.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.03.9303051151.F9816-a100000@mhc.mtholyoke.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303161954.B17015-a100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
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Hi,

No, there's no Pine FAQ. (Anyone want to create one?)

I think Pine printing might work over Appletalk with the right terminal
emulation software, but you'll need a Mac expert for that. It would have
to understand the VT-100 printer escape and do the right thing with it. 

Question 2: No, there's no way to mark a bunch of messages for deletion
(or save, print, forward....). It's on the (long) to do list, and was part
of Pine to start with as it was viewed as a feature hard to implement for
the novice user on 80x24 termainls (no graphics or mouse to manage the
selection). 

LL


On Fri, 5 Mar 1993, KaReN wrote:

> 
> I ask because I think I'm about to ask a couple of FAQs!!
> 
> 1.  When will Pine's print command work over appletalk?
> 	(or does it already and I'm missing something)
> 
> 2.  Is there a way to delete a batch of messages, rather than one at a time?
> 
> Thanks for any info!
> 
> Karen
> 




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 17 08:16:45 1993
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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 10:53:06 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Pine and Solaris
To: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <28463.9303101023@suma2>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303171004.E26234-a100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
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X-Status: 

I suspect it should compile and run OK on Solaris. Certainly shouldn't be
any major problems since Pine has most of the hooks in to run on Sys 5 and
BSD machines. Usually it's just a matter of getting the right #ifdef's and
#includes.

LL

On Wed, 10 Mar 1993, Mike Roch wrote:

> We are expecting to have a SparcCenter 2000 here by the Autumn; it will run
> Solaris 2.x. Does anyone know/believe/have_a_gut-feeling that Pine will
> compile ok in this environment, or is some porting work likely to be
> necessary?
> 
> Mike
> 
> =======================================================================
> Mike Roch, Computer Services Centre,             D.M.Roch@Reading.ac.uk
> University of Reading, Whiteknights,                   Tel: 0734 318430
> Reading, RG6 2AX, UK                                   Fax: 0734 753094
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 17 08:41:35 1993
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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 11:21:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Pine Message-Id: subcomponent values query
To: "Michael J. Corrigan" <corrigan@weber.UCSD.EDU>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <199303122114.AA24454@weber.UCSD.EDU>
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The HHMM is suposed to be the local time with the current code. The
hostname should be a FQDN. Often it isn't because the first entry in
/etc/hosts (or DNS, NIS or YP)  is the non-FQDN. For example, it is:
   134.34.23.45     weber  weber.ucsd.edu
instead of
   134.34.23.45     weber.ucsd.edu weber

Changing the will have some implications for your machine set up, but
there's not a good alternative way to get the hostname and it seems better
to run systems with the FQDN name first in the list.

LL


On Fri, 12 Mar 1993, Michael J. Corrigan wrote:

> 
> Three questions about the Message-Id: field that Pine generates:
> 
> Pine.3.05.YYMMDDHHMM.Xpid-number@host
>                 ^^^^      ^^^^^^ ^^^^
> 
> Is HHMM is "supposed to be" GMT or localtime ?
> Should host be a fqdn ?
> Where does the value in 'number' come from ?
> 
> Any information on these questions would be appreciated.
> Thanks
> -Mike Corrigan





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 17 09:20:37 1993
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Message-Id: <199303171710.AA08067@alsys1.aecom.yu.edu>
From: biren@aecom.yu.edu (Biren Patel)
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 12:10:43 -0500
In-Reply-To: Paul Maclauchlan's message of Feb 26,  2:27pm.
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.4 2/2/92)
To: Paul Maclauchlan <paul@moore.com>,
        Pine Info mailing list <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: User documentation
Cc: rnb@aecom.yu.edu, lummis@aecom.yu.edu
Status: O
X-Status: 

On Feb 26,  2:27pm, Paul Maclauchlan <paul@moore.com> wrote:
> 
> I realize the help screens include just about everything users need to
> know, but that is mostly useful *after* they've begun using Pine.  What do
> you do to introduce Pine to new email users at your site?
> 
> Seminars and demos are effective for people at my office, but I have many
> more users that are remote.  Any ideas for them?
> 
> Ideally, I'd like to be able to provide my users with a short document
> describing the Pine basics and how they can learn more about the features
> available to them.  If nobody has written one, I'll take a crack at it and
> share it with anyone that is interested.
> 
> I look forward to hearing from you.
> --
> .../Paul Maclauchlan
> Moore Corporation Limited, Toronto, Ontario (416) 364-2600
> paul@moore.com   -or-  {...!uunet.ca,...!telly}!moore!paul
> 
>-- End of excerpt from Paul Maclauchlan

Hi Paul and others interested in USER DOCUMENTATION FOR NOVICE PINE USERS,

We at Albert Einstein Coll. of Medicine (Research Information Technology
Department) have written a simple-to-understand PINE documentation which
is available via anonymous ftp on ftp.aecom.yu.edu under the /pub/docs
directory.  The document is available in three file formats as described
below:

usingpine.bin
	MS Word (Macintosh) document in MacBinary format. (Use binary/image
	transfer mode)

usingpine.ps
	PostScript form of the same document.

usingpine.txt
	Plain text (ASCII) form of the same document.

NB: You will need to edit (delete/replace) our site specific information 
before making it available to your general public.   Mentioning us as the
source of your edited version of the document is preferable.

Hope it is useful for you.  Please send corrections (if any) directly
to me at biren@aecom.yu.edu.

Sincerely,

Biren S. Patel
------------------------- Internet: biren@aecom.yu.edu -------------------------
Network Sys Anl/Administrator, Albert Einstein Coll. of Med., Bronx, NY - 10461
-------------------------------- (718) 430-4211 --------------------------------
        "By failing to prepare, we're preparing to fail." -- anonymous.


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 17 10:40:21 1993
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Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 10:24:06 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: Re: Pine and Solaris
To: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Cc: Mike Roch <D.M.Roch@reading.ac.uk>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.81.9303171004.E26234-a100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Message-Id: <MailManager.732392646.4826.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: O
X-Status: 

Without knowing for certain, I have heard reports to the effect that the IMAP
toolkit (including c-client) uses the SV4 port unmodified on Solaris (not the
SUN port).



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 17 13:21:24 1993
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Via: uk.ac.durham; Wed, 17 Mar 1993 19:02:17 +0000
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          Wed, 17 Mar 93 19:01:56 GMT
Date: Wed, 17 Mar 1993 18:47:01 +0000 (GMT)
From: Barry Cornelius <Barry.Cornelius@durham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Pine and Solaris
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05:930225.9303171801.A2584-b100000@crater>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Length: 1128
Status: O
X-Status: 

It is possible to run SunOS 4.1.x binaries with SunOS 5.1 (which is part
of Solaris 2.1) if you use the Binary Compatibility Package.  I have tried
this with a SunOS 4.1.x binary of pine.  Most aspects of pine will work.
For example, this message was sent from a 4.1.2 binary running on a
machine with SunOS 5.1. 

However, I found a problem with file locking.  This problem occurs in two
places:  
    (1) if you use NFS to mount /var/spool/mail rather than use
        IMAP, then pine hangs on starting it up. For example, you can't
        get the mail index, and there is a lock on your mailbox;
    (2) if you use the g command to goto a folder, then pine hangs:
        there is a lock on the file containing the folder.

I pass these comments on, just for information.  In due course, I will do
it properly, i.e., do a port of pine for SunOS 5.1.  Of course, someone
might beat me to it, please!

--
Barry Cornelius            Electronic mail: Barry.Cornelius@durham.ac.uk
Post:  Computing Service, University of Durham, Durham, DH1 3LE, England
Phone: Durham (091 or +44 91) 374 4717, Secretary:374 2892, Fax:374 3741




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 18 11:28:02 1993
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	id AA20227; Thu, 18 Mar 93 14:07:38 -0500
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 14:05:09 -0500 (EST)
From: Randall Reynolds <rreynold@risd.edu>
Subject: WYSE 50 terminals
To: PINE <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303181409.A20053-a100000@mickey>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

I can not use pine with my term set to wyse50 mode. The screen video does
not paint properly. Also using wyse60s the arrow keys do not allow the
user to move to different options.
Is anyone using wyse50s out there? It would help alot since most of my
terminals are wyse.
Thanks.

	------------------------------------------------------
	Randall Reynolds	Rhode Island School of Design
				2 College Street
				Providence, RI 02903
	401-454-6392
	Internet		 rreynold@risd.edu
	------------------------------------------------------



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 18 11:32:34 1993
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          id <11338-0@oxmail.ox.ac.uk>; Thu, 18 Mar 1993 19:16:59 +0000
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          Thu, 18 Mar 1993 18:13:06 +0000
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 18:12:58 +0000
From: "Neil J Long, Dept of Materials" <long@vax.ox.ac.uk>
To: PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU
Cc: long@vax.ox.ac.uk
Message-Id: <00969B41.6BB0B851.11316@vax.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: Getting imapd to work
Status: O
X-Status: 

HI
I'm sorry to be so thick but I cannot get imapd to run on demand.
I have compiled pine on both SGI Indigo's and HP 730's (without a hitch as is
typical of the quality of pine) and followed the instructions for including
imap in /etc/services and in inetd.conf. I -HUP'd inetd and so forth.
When I set the .pinerc to use a remote inbox as 
{machinename}inbox or {}/usr/mail or {}/usr/mail/long I always get the same
message

Cannot connect to machinename,143 : Connection refused.

I also tried making a symbolic link between impad and /etc/rimapd but that
didn't make any difference.
Could someone enlighten me. Are there any other file permissions needed?
I also tried changing the services entry to imap2.
Thanks
Neil
services entry is
imap	143/tcp		
inetd.conf entry is
imap	stream	tcp	nowait	root	/usr/etc/imapd	imapd

Above taken from technical Notes July 13 1992 Pine 3.05

Sorry if this is a FAQ!!



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 18 11:48:02 1993
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          id <12836-0@oxmail.ox.ac.uk>; Thu, 18 Mar 1993 19:41:24 +0000
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          Thu, 18 Mar 1993 19:40:56 +0000
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 19:40:50 +0000
From: "Neil J Long, Dept of Materials" <long@vax.ox.ac.uk>
To: PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU
Cc: long@vax.ox.ac.uk
Message-Id: <00969B4D.B1B9F0F9.13267@vax.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: I Got imap to work - sorry
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi
Sorry for the previous message regarding problems on a Hp. I hadn't updated the
NIS/YP services database so inetd didn't find the imap service. It works.
BLUSH


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 18 11:59:21 1993
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Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 11:37:50 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Subject: re: Getting imapd to work
To: "Neil J Long, Dept of Materials" <long@vax.ox.ac.uk>
Cc: PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU, long@vax.ox.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: <00969B41.6BB0B851.11316@vax.ox.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <MailManager.732483470.10133.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

It looks to me as if you did the right thing.  The error message you got seems
to indicate that your system is not listening for the IMAP service, which is
indicative of an improper installation somehow.

I assume you have checked the obvious:
 1) is imapd installed on /usr/etc/imapd (the pathname you gave in the
    inetd.conf file), and is it executable?
 2) does the format of your inetd.conf entry correspond to that of other
    entries in the file (there are two or three variants of this file's
    format)?

Regards,

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 18 12:16:49 1993
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          id AA09623; Thu, 18 Mar 1993 15:13:21 -0500
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 15:09:17 -500 (EST)
From: Paul Ribeiro <pribeiro@hermes.ryerson.ca>
Subject: Dictonaries
To: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303181517.B11143-9100000@hermes.ryerson.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Status: 

Is there any way to get the spell checker in pine/pico to suggest
a "correct" word? A user here is complaining that since he can't 
spell well in the first place, just saying the word is wrong doesn't
help :-) ..is it possible to add an external spell checker?
many thanks!
/Paul




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 18 13:06:52 1993
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	id AA08109; Thu, 18 Mar 93 12:55:00 -0800
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 12:54:38 -0800 (PST)
From: "David L. Miller" <dmiller@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
Subject: Re: WYSE 50 terminals
To: Randall Reynolds <rreynold@risd.edu>
Cc: PINE <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303181409.A20053-a100000@mickey>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.04.9303181234.F7227-b100000@beta.tricity.wsu.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: O
X-Status: 


We use WYSE85s without any problem...

*****************************************************************************
David L. Miller                       Internet: dmiller@beta.tricity.wsu.edu
Systems Programmer/Network Analyst      BITNET: MILLERD@WSUVM1
Washington State University Tri-Cities    UUCP: ...!yoda!dmiller
100 Sprout Road                          
Richland, WA 99352                       Phone: (509)375-9245
*****************************************************************************


On Thu, 18 Mar 1993, Randall Reynolds wrote:

> I can not use pine with my term set to wyse50 mode. The screen video does
> not paint properly. Also using wyse60s the arrow keys do not allow the
> user to move to different options.
> Is anyone using wyse50s out there? It would help alot since most of my
> terminals are wyse.
> Thanks.
> 
> 	------------------------------------------------------
> 	Randall Reynolds	Rhode Island School of Design
> 				2 College Street
> 				Providence, RI 02903
> 	401-454-6392
> 	Internet		 rreynold@risd.edu
> 	------------------------------------------------------
> 




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 18 17:41:25 1993
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 	id <m0nZW0G-0006YuC@techbook.techbook.com>; Thu, 18 Mar 93 17:36 PST
Message-Id: <m0nZW0G-0006YuC@techbook.techbook.com>
From: mikes@techbook.com (Mike Scheuerman)
Subject: Access to mail aliases
To: PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 1993 17:36:04 -0800 (PST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL12]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Content-Length: 294       
Status: O
X-Status: 

Can someone tell us how to access the standard unix mail aliases from within
pine?  Along the same lines we'd like to set up a bulletin board, is there a
good way to use Pine for that?  If not can anyone suggest a public domain
bulletin board system or a menuing system?

Thanks
Mike Scheuerman


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 18 19:54:28 1993
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From: David A Rasmussen <dave@csd4.csd.uwm.edu>
Message-Id: <9303190347.AA28139@csd4.csd.uwm.edu>
Subject: Re: Access to mail aliases
To: mikes@techbook.com (Mike Scheuerman)
Date: Thu, 18 Mar 93 21:47:14 CST
Cc: PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU
In-Reply-To: <m0nZW0G-0006YuC@techbook.techbook.com>; from "Mike Scheuerman" at Mar 18, 93 5:36 pm
Word-Of-The-Day: assay
Status: O
X-Status: 

>From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu Thu Mar 18 20:21:16 1993
>From: mikes@techbook.com (Mike Scheuerman)
>Subject: Access to mail aliases
>To: PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU
>
>Can someone tell us how to access the standard unix mail aliases from within
>pine?  Along the same lines we'd like to set up a bulletin board, is there a
>good way to use Pine for that?  If not can anyone suggest a public domain
>bulletin board system or a menuing system?
>
well, the unix system aliases are external to pine and won't be expanded
in your mail messages, but will still work just as if you used boring old
/bin/mail. I think.

-- 
Dave Rasmussen - SysAdm/Hacker/Consulting Supervisor, UWM Computing Svcs Div.
Internet:dave@uwm.edu, Uucp:uwm!dave, Bitnet:dave%uwm.edu@INTERBIT
AT&T:414-229-5133 USmail:Box 413 EMS380,Milwaukee,WI 53201  HAM: N9REJ       



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 18 22:25:42 1993
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	id AA01687; Fri, 19 Mar 1993 07:20:32 +0100
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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 93 07:14:00 +0100
From: clindh@abalon.se (Christer Lindh)
Message-Id: <9303190614.AA08778@abalon.se>
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Subject: Re: WYSE 50 terminals
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
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Status: O
X-Status: 


>    We use WYSE85s without any problem...
> 
Unfortunately, the ancient Wyse50 use up one character on the screen
whenever an attribute is changed. This is the dreaded "magic cookie"
you can read about in terminfo/curses manuals.

There's not much to do except rewrite your termcap/terminfo not to use
reverse or underline attributes. You can however use protected mode,
it can be represented as "dim" (selectable trough Setup I think).


--
::        clindh@abalon.se        ::   o/       ::                          ::
::  Abalon AB, Stockholm, Sweden  ::  /@        ::          Earth.          ::
::        59.19 N, 17.57 E        ::  <|\  acro ::   Love it or leave it.   ::
::    * All disclaimers apply *   ::   |   phil ::                          ::


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 19 00:29:43 1993
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From: ray@rnd.exicom.oz.au (Ray Soo)
Message-Id: <9303190800.AA24871@rnd.exicom.oz.au>
Subject: Re:
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 93 17:59:57 EST
Status: O
X-Status: 

Operating System: HP-UX B.08.00 B 9000/360 080009001925
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]

> 
> Unfortunately, the ancient Wyse50 use up one character on the screen
whenever an attribute is changed. This is the dreaded "magic cookie"
> you can read about in terminfo/curses manuals.
> 
> There's not much to do except rewrite your termcap/terminfo not to use
> reverse or underline attributes. You can however use protected mode,
> it can be represented as "dim" (selectable trough Setup I think).
> 
> 
> --
> ::        clindh@abalon.se        ::   o/       ::                          ::
> ::  Abalon AB, Stockholm, Sweden  ::  /@        ::          Earth.          ::
> ::        59.19 N, 17.57 E        ::  <|\  acro ::   Love it or leave it.   ::
> ::    * All disclaimers apply *   ::   |   phil ::                          ::
> 

 Is this why WYSE 60 terminal emulation doesn't work with PINE
 either? When I use PINE I have to run another terminal emulation
 e.g. VT100 for it to work.
 
 ray
 --
 
\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\
raymond soo                                       ray@exicom.OZ.AU
Exicom Australia Pty Ltd                          phone: 61-2-7248480
44-46 Mandarin St.                                       61-2-7248496
Villawood NSW 2163 Australia                      fax :  61-2-7248738
\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 19 03:13:04 1993
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From: Bob Walker <Bob.Walker@bristol.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <7655.9303191006@computing-service.bristol.ac.uk>
Subject: pico ctrl-j/ctrl-u
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 10:06:53 +0000 (GMT)
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This may be a FAQ, but we've recently found a problem with 'pico'.

If you do 'CTRL-J' to justify a paragraph and then move the cursor
elsewhere in the document and do 'ctrl-u' (inadvertantly, I guess), it
copies the unjustified text previously justified to that point in the
document.

This is little more than a nuisance to those of us who know about
computing, but as we at Bristol are about to unleash 'pico' as our default
editor in 'elm' (sorry..we're unable to move to 'pine'!) we'd like to know
if anyone can see a fix?


Bob Walker




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 19 03:31:55 1993
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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 11:23:02 +0000
From: "Neil J Long, Dept of Materials" <long@vax.ox.ac.uk>
To: PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU
Cc: long@vax.ox.ac.uk
Message-Id: <00969BD1.51C8D811.19147@vax.ox.ac.uk>
Subject: pine.conf versus SuperUser
Status: O
X-Status: 

HI
Despite yesterdays humbling I have one minor problem with using imapd.
If I set-up a pine.conf entry so that all users get a default inbox on the main
server then root cannot use pine to read mail on same machine.
OK root can always use elm/mail but is this an inherent problem or local to
HP-UX?
We deleted the inbox-path entry and then root was ok - just to make sure that
pine built all its directories, etc., then re-inserted the inbox path and root
couldn't get access again. We have since edited all the users .pinerc's to
reflect the new inbox-path (not too bad as it is a new system) but is there a
way around this problem?
HP 700's, HP-UX 9.01, Pine 3.05. 
Neil


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 19 05:42:13 1993
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Via: uk.ac.bristol; Fri, 19 Mar 1993 13:20:00 +0000
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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 13:18:28 +0000 (GMT)
From: Dave King <Dave.King@bristol.ac.uk>
Subject: Joining Mail list
To: Pine Information <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303191328.A29154-9100000@adm1.bris.ac.uk>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Could you please add my mailname/me to your mailing list.


Many thanks,

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Dave King, Admin. Computing Services Manager, University of Bristol
Email: Dave.King@uk.ac.Bristol       Tel: 0272 303961 (Direct Line) 




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 19 07:48:36 1993
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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 07:30:25 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: pico ctrl-j/ctrl-u
To: Bob Walker <Bob.Walker@bristol.ac.uk>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <7655.9303191006@computing-service.bristol.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303190722.B1235-a100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Bob,
I think it is fixable.

We want Ctl-U to be able to "undo" a justification, and the kill buffer is used
for this, but it should be possible to note that the kill buffer currently
contains the input to a justification, and clear it when the cursor is moved. 

I'll check with Mike and get it on the enhancement list.

-teg


On Fri, 19 Mar 1993, Bob Walker wrote:

> 
> This may be a FAQ, but we've recently found a problem with 'pico'.
> 
> If you do 'CTRL-J' to justify a paragraph and then move the cursor
> elsewhere in the document and do 'ctrl-u' (inadvertantly, I guess), it
> copies the unjustified text previously justified to that point in the
> document.
> 
> This is little more than a nuisance to those of us who know about
> computing, but as we at Bristol are about to unleash 'pico' as our default
> editor in 'elm' (sorry..we're unable to move to 'pine'!) we'd like to know
> if anyone can see a fix?
> 
> 
> Bob Walker
> 
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 19 09:41:54 1993
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	id AA08065; Fri, 19 Mar 93 12:32:57 EST
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 12:26:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan Schlitt <dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Subject: Re: pico ctrl-j/ctrl-u
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.81.9303190722.B1235-a100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303191236.B7947-a100000@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Status: 

Careful now.  If I move the cursor back to its original position doesn't
the principle of least suprise say that I ought to be able to undo the ^J?
So when do you clear the kill buffer?  Don't you have to maintain a lot of
state to know when to do the clear?

/dan

Dan Schlitt                           School of Engineering Computer Systems
dan@ee-mail.engr.ccny.cuny.edu        City College of New York
(212)650-6760                         New York, NY 10031


On Fri, 19 Mar 1993, Terry Gray wrote:

> Bob,
> I think it is fixable.
> 
> We want Ctl-U to be able to "undo" a justification, and the kill buffer is used
> for this, but it should be possible to note that the kill buffer currently
> contains the input to a justification, and clear it when the cursor is moved. 
> 
> I'll check with Mike and get it on the enhancement list.
> 
> -teg
> 
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 19 11:11:17 1993
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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 10:54:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Seibel <mikes@cac.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Michael Seibel <mikes@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: pico ctrl-j/ctrl-u
To: Dan Schlitt <dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303191236.B7947-a100000@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303190933.v21115-b100000@shiva1.cac.washington.edu>
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Status: O
X-Status: 

The kill buffer really shouldn't have been used for this.  It's even more
apparent with the mark/cut functionality of the next version as the buffer
should see increased use as a place to park text that's being shuffled
around. 

The ideal solution would be a general, consistent "undo" command (you
mentioned state?).  It's on the list, but is hard to say whether or not
it'll make it into the next release... 

-mikes


On Fri, 19 Mar 1993, Dan Schlitt wrote:

> Careful now.  If I move the cursor back to its original position doesn't
> the principle of least suprise say that I ought to be able to undo the ^J?
> So when do you clear the kill buffer?  Don't you have to maintain a lot of
> state to know when to do the clear?
> 
> /dan
> 
> Dan Schlitt                           School of Engineering Computer Systems
> dan@ee-mail.engr.ccny.cuny.edu        City College of New York
> (212)650-6760                         New York, NY 10031
> 
> 
> On Fri, 19 Mar 1993, Terry Gray wrote:
> 
> > Bob,
> > I think it is fixable.
> > 
> > We want Ctl-U to be able to "undo" a justification, and the kill buffer is used
> > for this, but it should be possible to note that the kill buffer currently
> > contains the input to a justification, and clear it when the cursor is moved. 
> > 
> > I'll check with Mike and get it on the enhancement list.
> > 
> > -teg
> > 
> > 
> 
> 











From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 19 11:45:55 1993
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	id AA22178; Fri, 19 Mar 93 14:36:53 EST
From: qralston@cislabs.pitt.edu (James Ralston Crawford)
Message-Id: <9303191936.AA22178@phantom.cislabs.pitt.edu>
Subject: Re: pine.conf versus SuperUser
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 14:36:52 -0500 (EST)
In-Reply-To: <00969BD1.51C8D811.19147@vax.ox.ac.uk> from "Neil J Long, Dept of Materials" at Mar 19, 93 11:23:02 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
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Neil J Long writes:
> If I set-up a pine.conf entry so that all users get a default inbox
> on the main server then root cannot use pine to read mail on same
> machine.

	Is there any reason you can't forward root's mail to a normal
user account and answer it there?  Also, that way you wouldn't need to
give someone the root password to allow them to read root's mail; just
dump their username in /.forward.

	Admittedly, this doesn't address the source of the problem,
but the rule of thumb that has always been handed down is to use
normal user accounts for as many things as possible, and the root
account only when absolutely necessary.

	Regards,

James

-- 
James Ralston Crawford \ Assistant Supervisor \ Advanced Technology Lab
qralston@cislabs.pitt.edu \ qralston+@pitt.edu \ qralston@pittvms.bitnet
"Computer, you and I need to have a little talk."  - O'Brien, ST:DS9


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 19 12:55:21 1993
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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 12:37:14 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <mrc@shivafs.cac.washington.edu>
Subject: re: pine.conf versus SuperUser
To: "Neil J Long, Dept of Materials" <long@vax.ox.ac.uk>
Cc: PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU, long@vax.ox.ac.uk
In-Reply-To: <00969BD1.51C8D811.19147@vax.ox.ac.uk>
Message-Id: <MS-C.732573434.662824084.mrc@shivafs.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: O
X-Status: 

root (or any other user with user ID 0) can not use IMAP.  This is part of the
design of the IMAP server.  The reasons for this are long and involved, but
the one sentence summary is that there are good technical/security reasons
that you don't want to do this.

My recommendation is that you forward root mail to the individuals that are
responsible for answering mail directed to root.  You should never read mail
while logged in as root.

Regards,

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 19 13:53:31 1993
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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 13:36:42 -0800 (PST)
From: "greg cox;WR3058" <coxg@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu>
Subject: SCO UNIX port??
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303191342.A100722-8100000@wsuaix.csc.wsu.edu>
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Has anyone ported PINE to SCO UNIX, V 3.2 or ??? I am participating in an
on-line course at another University; the system has PICO for editing, but
they don't have PINE. 

Thanks for your help.




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 19 15:28:32 1993
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	id AA00962; Fri, 19 Mar 93 18:06:34 -0500
Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 18:00:17 -0500 (EST)
From: "James D. Gillmore" <gillmore@acad.csv.kutztown.edu>
Subject: Re: Access to mail aliases
To: Mike Scheuerman <mikes@techbook.com>
Cc: PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU
In-Reply-To: <m0nZW0G-0006YuC@techbook.techbook.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303191816.A326-b100000@acad.csv.kutztown.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 18 Mar 1993, Mike Scheuerman wrote:

> Can someone tell us how to access the standard unix mail aliases from within
> pine?  Along the same lines we'd like to set up a bulletin board, is there a
> good way to use Pine for that?  If not can anyone suggest a public domain
> bulletin board system or a menuing system?
> 
> Thanks
> Mike Scheuerman
Mike:
Have you tried looking at gopher from the University of Minnesota?  we
are running it here at kutztown and we are in love with it.  Actually it
is being used as the basis for the state systems bulletin board. it is
available on the net.   


______________________________________________________________________________
Jim Gillmore    	       	E-mail          gillmore@acad.csv.kutztown.edu
Manager Network Services 			            VOICE 215.683.4199
Kutztown University of PA			              FAX 215.683.4634
LMS Annex Room 105				             HOME 717.865.5820
				              Holidays & Weekends 717.567.3931
WE ARE NOTHING MORE THAN TRUCK DRIVERS:
The Vehicle has changed ..... It is a micro computer not an 18 Wheeler,
The Highway has changed ..... It is Fiber Optic not Black Top,
The Cargo   has changed ..... It is Data Packets not Boxes,
The Concept, Delivering Goods and Services, Remains Constant!  
______________________________________________________________________________




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sat Mar 20 05:00:57 1993
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Date: Fri, 19 Mar 1993 16:35:01 -0800 (PST)
From: "Andy C. McNiece" <allspts1!andym@uu4.psi.com>
Subject: Subscribe
To: pine-info%cac.washington.edu@psi.com
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Please add to subscription list.


===============================================================================
Andy McNiece (andym@assi.com)				All-Sports Supply, Inc.
Voice 503,233-4426 x224         			Portland, Oregon
===============================================================================



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 21 16:32:08 1993
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From: ray@rnd.exicom.oz.au (Ray Soo)
Message-Id: <9303220016.AA12887@rnd.exicom.oz.au>
Subject: Re: WYSE 50 terminals
To: clindh@abalon.se
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 10:16:00 EST
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <9303191200.AA28073@abalon.se>; from "Christer Lindh" at Mar 19, 93 1:00 pm
Status: O
X-Status: 

Operating System: HP-UX B.08.00 B 9000/360 080009001925
Mailer: Elm [revision: 66.25]

> 
> >    Is this why WYSE 60 terminal emulation doesn't work with PINE
> >    either? When I use PINE I have to run another terminal emulation
> >    e.g. VT100 for it to work.
> >
> That is likely. I don't remember what kind of terminal Wyse60 is.
> What problems are you having?
> 
> --
> ::        clindh@abalon.se        ::   o/       ::                          ::
> ::  Abalon AB, Stockholm, Sweden  ::  /@        ::          Earth.          ::
> ::        59.19 N, 17.57 E        ::  <|\  acro ::   Love it or leave it.   ::
> ::    * All disclaimers apply *   ::   |   phil ::                          ::
> 

I'm running pine 3.05 on a Sun Sparc2 (sunOS 4.1.2) and
the text on the screen is interspersed with many "OOPS" messages.

However, I seem to be able to run the news reader "nn" on the same
machine with Wyse60 term emulation with no problems. From the user's
point of view "nn" seems to have the same sort of screen painting.


--

\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\
raymond soo                                       ray@exicom.OZ.AU
Exicom Australia Pty Ltd                          phone: 61-2-7248480
44-46 Mandarin St.                                       61-2-7248496
Villawood NSW 2163 Australia                      fax :  61-2-7248738
\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\-/-\




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 21 16:32:48 1993
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Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1993 16:18:00 -0800 (PST)
From: Jim Hill <hill@hill.net.wsu.edu>
Subject: Change Subscription
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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Please change my subscription address from: hill@hill.net.wsu.edu         
                                      to:   hill@wsuvm1.csc.wsu.edu       
Thanks.    	



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 21 18:16:17 1993
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Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1993 16:04:49 +22305714 (HST)
From: "Edward K. Yagi" <edwardy@bishop.bishop.hawaii.org>
Subject: Re: WYSE 50 terminals
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <9303220016.AA12887@rnd.exicom.oz.au>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05a.9303211636.A30928-b100000@bishop.bishop.hawaii.org>
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> > 
> > >    Is this why WYSE 60 terminal emulation doesn't work with PINE
> > >    either? When I use PINE I have to run another terminal emulation
> > >    e.g. VT100 for it to work.
> > 
> I'm running pine 3.05 on a Sun Sparc2 (sunOS 4.1.2) and
> the text on the screen is interspersed with many "OOPS" messages.

Perhaps its your Termcap entry for that terminal. I am able to use Pine3.05a
at work on a true blue wyse50 fairly well. I just had to find the termcap
entry for that terminal. 

 This is the termcap that has worked for me..

TERMCAP='wv|wyse-vp|wyse|Wyse 50 in ADDS Viewpoint emulation mode with
"enhance" on:\
	:am:do=^J:if=/usr/share/lib/tabset/wyse-adds:\
	:le=^H:bs:li#24:co#80:cm=\EY%+ %+ :cd=\Ek:ce=\EK:nd=^F:\
	:up=^Z:cl=^L:ho=^A:ll=^A^Z:kl=^U:kr=^F:kd=^J:ku=^Z:kh=^A:\
	:pt:so=^N:se=^O:us=^N:ue=^O:dl=\El:al=\EM:im=\Eq:ei=\Er:dc=\EW:\
	:is=\E`\072\E`9^O\Er:rs=\E`\072\E`9^O\Er:'

 I said 'fairly' well because I am unable to use the arrow keys on the
keypad. Control-P,Control-N etc for cursor movement all work, but Id
like to have the keypad cursor keys to work also. Looking at the termcap
info above, I tried changing the control sequences for ku,kd,kr,kl to 
control-p, control-n, control-b, control-f but Pine still does not
recognise them. Any suggestions?
						edman



Edward Yagi
edwardy@bishop.bishop.hawaii.org
edwardy@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu
edwardy@uhunix.bitnet




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 21 19:59:01 1993
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Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1993 22:35:40 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Reply-To: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: WYSE 50 terminals
To: Ray Soo <ray@rnd.exicom.oz.au>
Cc: clindh@abalon.se, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <9303220016.AA12887@rnd.exicom.oz.au>
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I think some one answered this already, but just to affirm it, Pine does
have some problems running on Televideo and Wyse terminals that other
programs may not have because of limitations of these terminals. If these
terminals have an ansi or vt100 mode that could be used to avoid the
problem. 

The problem is that these terminals require a space on the screen between
shifts from from regular video to reverse and back, and Pine can't cope
with that. In principle Pine's screen painting routines could be fixed
since there is information in termcap to alert Pine to this and most of
Pine's screen do have spaces surrounding blocks of reverse video, but it's
probably a fair amount of work. 

There is a work around for this problem that's described in the technical
notes. It is to use protected mode instead of standard reverse video and
requires modification to your local termcap.  If anyone's done this please
post your termcap entry! 

LL


On Mon, 22 Mar 1993, Ray Soo wrote:

> I'm running pine 3.05 on a Sun Sparc2 (sunOS 4.1.2) and
> the text on the screen is interspersed with many "OOPS" messages.
> 
> However, I seem to be able to run the news reader "nn" on the same
> machine with Wyse60 term emulation with no problems. From the user's
> point of view "nn" seems to have the same sort of screen painting.






From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 21 20:01:41 1993
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Date: Sun, 21 Mar 1993 22:45:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: WYSE 50 terminals
To: "Edward K. Yagi" <edwardy@bishop.bishop.hawaii.org>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05a.9303211636.A30928-b100000@bishop.bishop.hawaii.org>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303212221.B6992-c100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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X-Status: 

Ooops, thought I'd read all my mail when I'd posted the last one. My guess
is that this termcap entry does the protected mode trick because the "is"
field has got a lot of stuff in it. 

I think the arrow key problem with these terminals is a bit worse. I think
they send ^J ^K ^L and ^O or such for the arrow keys. These collide
directly with some of the Pine commands so the only hope is to rearrange
the Pine key bindings. Pine doesn't pay attention to the termcap ku, kd,
kr, and kl entries in the termcap, but knows about the 5 or so most common
schemes for arrow keys. This was done because experience suggested that
the termcap entries were usually not set up correctly and we wanted Pine
to work as well as possible out of the box without a lot of configuration. 

Thanks a lot for posting the termcap entry!

LL

On Sun, 21 Mar 1993, Edward K. Yagi wrote:

> > > 
> > > >    Is this why WYSE 60 terminal emulation doesn't work with PINE
> > > >    either? When I use PINE I have to run another terminal emulation
> > > >    e.g. VT100 for it to work.
> > > 
> > I'm running pine 3.05 on a Sun Sparc2 (sunOS 4.1.2) and
> > the text on the screen is interspersed with many "OOPS" messages.
> 
> Perhaps its your Termcap entry for that terminal. I am able to use Pine3.05a
> at work on a true blue wyse50 fairly well. I just had to find the termcap
> entry for that terminal. 
> 
>  This is the termcap that has worked for me..
> 
> TERMCAP='wv|wyse-vp|wyse|Wyse 50 in ADDS Viewpoint emulation mode with
> "enhance" on:\
> 	:am:do=^J:if=/usr/share/lib/tabset/wyse-adds:\
> 	:le=^H:bs:li#24:co#80:cm=\EY%+ %+ :cd=\Ek:ce=\EK:nd=^F:\
> 	:up=^Z:cl=^L:ho=^A:ll=^A^Z:kl=^U:kr=^F:kd=^J:ku=^Z:kh=^A:\
> 	:pt:so=^N:se=^O:us=^N:ue=^O:dl=\El:al=\EM:im=\Eq:ei=\Er:dc=\EW:\
> 	:is=\E`\072\E`9^O\Er:rs=\E`\072\E`9^O\Er:'
> 
>  I said 'fairly' well because I am unable to use the arrow keys on the
> keypad. Control-P,Control-N etc for cursor movement all work, but Id
> like to have the keypad cursor keys to work also. Looking at the termcap
> info above, I tried changing the control sequences for ku,kd,kr,kl to 
> control-p, control-n, control-b, control-f but Pine still does not
> recognise them. Any suggestions?
> 						edman
> 
> 
> 
> Edward Yagi
> edwardy@bishop.bishop.hawaii.org
> edwardy@uhunix.uhcc.hawaii.edu
> edwardy@uhunix.bitnet
> 
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 22 08:46:05 1993
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 	id <m0napca-0006WhC@techbook.techbook.com>; Mon, 22 Mar 93 08:45 PST
Message-Id: <m0napca-0006WhC@techbook.techbook.com>
From: mikes@techbook.com (Mike Scheuerman)
Subject: Using "!" addressing with Pine
To: PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU (Pine Info)
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 08:45:06 -0800 (PST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL12]
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I suspect that some of the problems we're having getting things set up the
way we want are interrelated, but another problem has cropped up.  We're
trying to set up a uucp connection to a couple of other machines and
everytime we put in an address (e.g. AST!Mikes) on the remote machine, Pine
appends the local machine address to it (e.g. AST!Mikes@CMSICOR1) and things
get lost.  We've not had problems with elm or plain old mail.  Any ideas on
what we're doing wrong?

Thanks again.

Mike Scheuerman


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 22 11:22:44 1993
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Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 10:51:53 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: Using "!" addressing with Pine
To: Mike Scheuerman <mikes@techbook.com>
Cc: Pine Info <PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <m0napca-0006WhC@techbook.techbook.com>
Message-Id: <MailManager.732826313.4374.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>
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Mike -

     Pine does not have any specific support for UUCP style addressing, or for
that matter any style other than Internet domain format addresses.  This is
(at least partially) my fault when I built the address management support in
c-client, so you know where the hate mail and letter bombs should go.  :-)

     The notion was that UUCP style addressing was obsolete and that new email
links, even those using UUCP transports, would use domain format addresses.
Large parts of the UUCP world had made this transition, which led me into the
false belief that the rest would soon follow.  In the succeeding years, I've
learned that folly of that thinking...  :-)

     There are important technical reasons why domain format addressing is
superior to UUCP addressing, not the least being the syntax ambiguities which
arise; note the endless infared (lots of heat, little light) debates about the
priority order of ! % and @ that appear on the newsgroups from time to time.
It's a desirable goal to abolish UUCP addressing, but perhaps still a bit
premature.

     I have heard, but cannot verify, that a small change to your system's
sendmail.cf file is all that is needed to support UUCP-bound mail with Pine.
I have seen reports from other sites that say they have used such a workaround
with good results.  If someone can report the necessary magic, it should get
recorded for the next time the question comes up.

     We'll have to take a look at this issue and see if we can offer a better
solution.  I shudder at the thought of having to support UUCP (or DECnet)
addressing, but it may end up being necessary.  :-(

Regards,

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 22 14:39:04 1993
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	id AA11567; Mon, 22 Mar 93 17:30:20 EST
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 17:20:08 -0500 (EST)
From: Dan Schlitt <dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu>
Subject: re: Using "!" addressing with Pine
To: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Cc: Mike Scheuerman <mikes@techbook.com>,
        Pine Info <PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <MailManager.732826313.4374.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>
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Mark,

To come to your defense on bang paths.  Mail routing is a MTA problem and
not a user agent problem.  I really don't want my users trying to tell me
how to route mail.  When it comes to bang-paths they probably have it
wrong anyhow.  They route through seismo or ihnp4 :-).

Since all of the mail going out of here, whether the MUA is pine, Berkeley
mail, MUSH,... goes through sendmail I have sendmail take care of the routing.
I use two pseudo-domains to tell the MTA to send mail to UUCP or BITNET.
So users use addresses like user1@uucp-site.uucp or user2@bit-node.bitnet
and sendmail does the rest.  I have used smail with good effect to route
the uucp.  The required databases were made automatically from the maps
that were snarfed from the newsgroup.

/dan

Dan Schlitt                           School of Engineering Computer Systems
dan@ee-mail.engr.ccny.cuny.edu        City College of New York
(212)650-6760                         New York, NY 10031




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 22 14:48:43 1993
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	(5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.27 ) id AA07599; Mon, 22 Mar 93 14:43:20 -0800
Subject: SCO Port
To: pin-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 17:41:55 -0500 (EST)
From: "Steven E. Frazier" <sfrazier@norstan.com>
Reply-To: Steven E Frazier <sfrazier@norstan.com>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
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Has there been anyone working on a SCO port and is there one that is complete
and available?

Thanks for advance.

Steve

-- 
Norstan Communications, Inc.        | Steven E. Frazier
8101 N. High Street Suite 100       |---------------------------------------
Columbus, OH   43235                | Local : sfrazier
Voice 614-785-7335 Fax 614-785-7337 | Remote: sfrazier@norstan.com


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 22 15:29:54 1993
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Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 15:18:12 -0800 (PST)
From: "Jon \"yes that's right\" Gross" <jong@halcyon.halcyon.com>
Subject: Folders
To: Pine Info <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303221512.A24024-a100000@halcyon.com>
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	I have set up my .pinerc file to save messages to folders like elm
i.e. to a folder named after whoever sent me the message.  I have had
problems creating new folders if I don't want to save them this way.  I
manually try and create them by saying "no I don't want to save them to
the folder "foo", save them to a new folder called "bar".  Pine always
wants to put them in my home directory rather than my Mail subdir.  Is
there a way to get around this?  I've tried specifying a path for the new
folder as well, and that works.  But only once.  After that pine refuses
to acknowledge that it exists when I try to save to it again.  I can call
it up from the Folders screen, but I cannot save to it.
  It's version 3.05 of pine.
		Thanks for any and all help.
jong@halcyon.com
Jon





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 22 17:10:13 1993
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Message-Id: <m0naxAQ-0003TNC@camco1.celestial.com>
Subject: SCO
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Mon, 22 Mar 93 16:48:34 PST
From: Bill Campbell <bill@camco1.Celestial.COM>
Reply-To: bill@Celestial.COM
Organization: Celestial Software, Mercer Island, WA 98040
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
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X-Status: 

Forwarded message:
> Subject: SCO Port
> Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 17:41:55 -0500 (EST)
> From: "Steven E. Frazier" <sfrazier@norstan.com>
> Message-Id:  <9303221743.aa26124@eng.norstan.com>
> 
> Has there been anyone working on a SCO port and is there one that is complete
> and available?
> 
I'm working on pine now.  I have pico working on both Xenix and
Unix 3.2v4 (with a lot of help from Robert Lewis at SCO
robertle@sco.com who provided the Unix part).

I started about a week ago, but got sidetracked on other
projects.  At that time I was looking at the locking code in
c-client trying to understand Berserkley flock() enough to write
a general replacement function for Unix.  I'm hazy on the whole
shared lock logic used in pine.

Bill
--
INTERNET:  bill@Celestial.COM   Bill Campbell; Celestial Software
UUCP:        uunet!camco!bill   6641 East Mercer Way
FAX:           (206) 232-9186   Mercer Island, WA 98040; (206) 947-5591


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 22 17:23:55 1993
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Date: Mon, 22 Mar 1993 17:14:48 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: SCO
To: bill@Celestial.COM
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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Hi Bill -

     Please feel free to ask me for assistance.

     There is already an SCO port of c-client in the IMAP toolkit, although it
is not in the Pine 3.05 (since it came afterwards).  This may save you a lot
of time!  The locking mechanism is somewhat different on SCO, because of the
15 character filename limit.

Regards,

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 22 23:58:17 1993
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 08:33:51 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Reply-To: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Subject: re: Using "!" addressing with Pine
To: "dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu"@nova15.vbo.dec.com
Cc: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>,
        Mike Scheuerman <mikes@techbook.com>,
        Pine Info <PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU>
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Sendmail is doing good job for outgoing mail. Right. I use it to convert
to DECnet addresses on Ultrix systems. 

But what about incoming mail? If I receive a mail with no 822-format, 
the suffixe @mynode.mydomain is appended. For example, I received a mail from

	dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu

and I get:

	"dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu"@nova15.vbo.dec.com

in the TO: field when I reply. Should I modify sendmail.cf to strip
quotes and @nova15.vbo.dec.com off ??? I'd prefer pine not to add it ;-).

May be a good switch on the command line could make everybody happy ? 
Or in .pinerc one could think of a bolean like do-rfc822={yes,no} ?
Another way would be to have a ctrl-command to do/undo rfc822 resolution ?
 

Rgds,
/francois
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital Equipment SARL		|			   |
950 Route des Colles - BP 027	|      Francois Donze	   |
06901 SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS		|--------------------------|francois donze@VBO
	FRANCE			|			   |  ULYSSE::DONZE
 Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 		|E-mail: donze@vbo.dec.com |  DTN: 828-5481
 Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34		|			   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 22 23:59:02 1993
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Date: Tue, 23 Mar 1993 08:51:23 +0100 (French Winter)
From: Francois Donze <donze@vbo.dec.com>
Subject: re: Using "!" addressing with Pine
To: Info Pine <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
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Sendmail is doing good job for outgoing mail. Right. I use it to convert
to DECnet addresses on Ultrix systems. 

But what about incoming mail? If I receive a mail with no 822-format, 
the suffixe @mynode.mydomain is appended. For example, I received a mail from

	dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu

and I get:

	"dan@ees1a0.engr.ccny.cuny.edu"@nova15.vbo.dec.com

in the TO: field when I reply. Should I modify sendmail.cf to strip
quotes and @nova15.vbo.dec.com off ??? I'd prefer pine not to add it ;-).

May be a good switch on the command line could make everybody happy ? 
Or in .pinerc one could think of a bolean like do-rfc822={yes,no} ?
Another way would be to have a ctrl-command to do/undo rfc822 resolution ?
 

Rgds,
/francois
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Digital Equipment SARL		|			   |
950 Route des Colles - BP 027	|      Francois Donze	   |
06901 SOPHIA ANTIPOLIS		|--------------------------|francois donze@VBO
	FRANCE			|			   |  ULYSSE::DONZE
 Tel: (33) 92.95.54.81 		|E-mail: donze@vbo.dec.com |  DTN: 828-5481
 Fax: (33) 92.95.62.34		|			   |
------------------------------------------------------------------------------





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 24 02:29:55 1993
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 10:04:24 +0100
From: clindh@abalon.se (Christer Lindh)
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To: ray@rnd.exicom.oz.au
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: Ray Soo's message of Mon, 22 Mar 93 10:16:00 EST <9303220016.AA12887@rnd.exicom.oz.au>
Subject: Re: WYSE 50 terminals
X-Zippy: ..  this must be what it's like to be a COLLEGE GRADUATE!!
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>    I'm running pine 3.05 on a Sun Sparc2 (sunOS 4.1.2) and
>    the text on the screen is interspersed with many "OOPS" messages.
>
Huh?  It says "OOPS"?  Weird!  I can't seem to find the string "OOPS"
in the pine source, who generates it?  


--
::        clindh@abalon.se        ::   o/       ::                          ::
::  Abalon AB, Stockholm, Sweden  ::  /@        ::          Earth.          ::
::        59.19 N, 17.57 E        ::  <|\  acro ::   Love it or leave it.   ::
::    * All disclaimers apply *   ::   |   phil ::                          ::


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 24 05:04:11 1993
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 07:50:16 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: WYSE 50 terminals
To: Christer Lindh <clindh@abalon.se>
Cc: ray@rnd.exicom.oz.au, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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X-Status: 

It's generated by the termcap library. I don't remember under exactly what
conditions. 

LL


On Wed, 24 Mar 1993, Christer Lindh wrote:

> >    I'm running pine 3.05 on a Sun Sparc2 (sunOS 4.1.2) and
> >    the text on the screen is interspersed with many "OOPS" messages.
> >
> Huh?  It says "OOPS"?  Weird!  I can't seem to find the string "OOPS"
> in the pine source, who generates it?  
> 
> 
> --
> ::        clindh@abalon.se        ::   o/       ::                          ::
> ::  Abalon AB, Stockholm, Sweden  ::  /@        ::          Earth.          ::
> ::        59.19 N, 17.57 E        ::  <|\  acro ::   Love it or leave it.   ::
> ::    * All disclaimers apply *   ::   |   phil ::                          ::





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 24 09:37:35 1993
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 93 12:27:36 -0500
From: Chris Maukonen <chris@aquarius.cc.ucf.edu>
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Subject: BBs's and Pine/IMAP
Message-Id: <Mailstrom.1.03.1081.15089.chris@aquarius.cc.ucf.edu>
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Hello,

I have been trying to get the bbs feature of IMAP and pine to work on
a Sun system here as per the instructions in the IMAPD readme file. 
I have the imapsavebb and bbs mail file set up in the correct directories
an I can send mail to it just fine. However I do not know how to get an
IMAP client to be able to read from this mbox. I can get pine to read from it
locally by putting a link to the bbs mail file in the users mail directory.

Also is the another news group just for imap ???


Thanks

Chris

Chris Maukonen
Sr. Systems Programmer
Univ. of Central Fla.
chris@aquarius.cc.ucf.edu
 



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 24 10:35:04 1993
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 10:18:05 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: BBs's and Pine/IMAP
To: Chris Maukonen <chris@aquarius.cc.ucf.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Mailstrom.1.03.1081.15089.chris@aquarius.cc.ucf.edu>
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There is another mailing list for IMAP discussions.  That list is
imap@cac.washington.edu.  If you would like to be added to the list, the
address to send requests is imap-request@cac.washington.edu.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 24 10:37:09 1993
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 09:42:16 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: BBs's and Pine/IMAP
To: Chris Maukonen <chris@aquarius.cc.ucf.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Mailstrom.1.03.1081.15089.chris@aquarius.cc.ucf.edu>
Message-Id: <MailManager.732994936.11922.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>
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Chris -

     It seems that you are not using the imapd supplied with Pine but are
instead using the old imapd from Stanford.  The imapsavebb program is an
artifact of that old imapd, which was completely rewritten and is no longer
receiving active support or maintenance.

     In that old imapd, a shared mailbox or ``bboard'' was opened as an
explicit filename.  So, you would have to open something like:
	/usr/spool/bboards/party-list

     In the current imapd, which is distributed with Pine and also in the IMAP
toolkit (on ftp.cac.washington.edu in mail/imap.tar.Z), it is possible to have
shared read-only mailboxes in this way with some hacking and setup.  However,
the preferred way is to use USENET newsgroups which the current imapd
supports.

     Access to newsgroups in the current imapd is via the IMAP2 BBOARD command
which is described in RFC-1176.

     In Pine 3.05, you can access a USENET newsgroup on the local system by
prefixing the newsgroup name with an asterisk and doing a normal Pine folder
open, e.g. *comp.mail.mime will open the comp.mail.mime newsgroup.  You can
also open a newsgroup via IMAP with the syntax *{host}newsgroup, e.g.
something like *{aquarius.cc.ucf.edu}comp.mail.mime .  This requires that you
either have an account on the IMAP server machine (since your .newsrc is
located there) or that the server host enables ``anonymous'' netnews access
(in which case no .newsrc is kept).

     Note that the asterisk in front of a newsgroup name is an artifact of the
c-client which is the kernel of both the current imapd and Pine; it is not
specific to any protocol.  Thus, {aquarius.cc.ucf.edu}*comp.mail.mime will
also work, but that presupposes that the IMAP server is c-client based.
Putting the asterisk in front of the {host} causes c-client to do the
implementation-independent action.

     In the soon to be released new version of Pine, there is much more
sophisticated support for newsgroups, including subscribe and unsubscribe
features and a less cryptic means of opening newsgroups.  Also, NNTP is
supported in addition to IMAP, for people who want their .newsrc files on the
client instead of on the server.

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 24 10:56:38 1993
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Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1993 13:36:24 -0500 (EST)
From: Chris Maukonen <chris@aquarius.cc.ucf.edu>
Subject: re: BBs's and Pine/IMAP
To: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
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Thanks for the information, Mark. I was using the imapd from sumex. I will be
looking forward to the news additions to pine also.

One other thing. The client I am currently using on Mac's is Mailststrom. I like it
a lot, but it still seems to be deficient in a number of areas. Specifically in it's
addressbook and the choice of mailboxes. I sent a message to the auther a little
over a week ago asking about this, but have yet to ge a reply. Do you know if any
additional work is being don on it, or it there is another client for the Mac ?
We do have a number of them here and I would like to have a nice imap client for
them. Maybe an imap version of Eudora or something .



Thanks 

Chris





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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 11:05:57 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: BBs's and Pine/IMAP
To: Chris Maukonen <chris@aquarius.cc.ucf.edu>
Cc: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303251321.B7164-a100000@aquarius>
Message-Id: <MailManager.732999957.11922.mrc@Ikkoku-Kan.Panda.COM>
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Hi Chris -

     You should give serious consideration to moving over from the sumex imapd
to the one which is bundled with Pine.  Besides netnews support, you will also
get all the IMAP2bis extensions, c-client based implementation, and running
under inetd (instead of being a daemon that does its own network I/O).

     There is a group that is working on Mailstrom, but I haven't heard from
them in quite a while.  I too am looking forward to seeing a greatly improved
Mailstrom.

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 24 11:43:37 1993
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Date: Wed, 24 Mar 1993 11:25:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: re: BBs's and Pine/IMAP
To: Chris Maukonen <chris@aquarius.cc.ucf.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303251321.B7164-a100000@aquarius>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303241115.A1194-a100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
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Chris,
Re: mailstrom status.  I believe Univ. of North Carolina has an active
project to add MIME support to Mailstrom.  I don't have any completion
estimates, however, nor any idea what else they may be adding.

In any case, I think it would be very useful to let the Qualcomm folks
know that you'd like to see an IMAP version of Eudora...  (they are
already committed to MIME.)

(Attention PC users: The same is true for Pegasus, NuPOP, etc.  Even
though we are enthusiastic about the prospects for PC-Pine, it should be
only *one* of the choices available to folks.  Getting more mail
developers interested in IMAP would be good for everyone, but it will take
some time and effort to help both developers and system managers understand
the advantages.)

-teg




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 24 12:38:32 1993
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Date: 	Wed, 24 Mar 1993 13:05:19 -0700
From: Steve Hole <steve@edm.isac.ca>
Subject: re: BBs's and Pine/IMAP
To: Chris Maukonen <chris@aquarius.cc.ucf.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <ECS9303241319B>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: MULTIPART/mixed; BOUNDARY=Part9303241319A
Status: RO
X-Status: 

--Part9303241319A
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII




On Thu, 25 Mar 1993 11:36:24 -0700 Chris Maukonen wrote:


> 
> One other thing. The client I am currently using on Mac's is Mailststrom. I like it
> a lot, but it still seems to be deficient in a number of areas. Specifically in it's
> addressbook and the choice of mailboxes. I sent a message to the auther a little
> over a week ago asking about this, but have yet to ge a reply. Do you know if any
> additional work is being don on it, or it there is another client for the Mac ?
> We do have a number of them here and I would like to have a nice imap client for
> them. Maybe an imap version of Eudora or something .
> 

There will be a Mac version of ECSMail available in the next month or so.   The MS
Windows version has been available for some time, and we have begun work on 
the Mac port.   I have included a short introduction to ECSMail as a separate part
to this message.    Hope this helps.   Cheers.


--
Steve Hole  		        Director of Research and Communications
ISA Corporation			mail:  steve@edm.isac.ca
Suite 835, 10040 - 104 St.      phone: (403) 420-8081
Edmonton, Alberta, Canada       fax:   (403) 420-8037
T5J 0Z2


--Part9303241319A
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; name="ANNOUNCE.TXT"

ISA has developed a new Mail User Agent (MUA) for processing electronic
mail on networks.  It is named "ECSMail".

ECSMail can function as both a "remote" MUA and a "local" MUA.   While
functioning in remote mode, it will access a remote message store using
standards based mail access protocols.   In local mode, it will access
a local message store using system dependent message store access
routines.  

ECSMail is has been designed and implemented to be as independent as
possible from operating system, display, and network protocols.  We have
achieved this by building driver libraries for the OS and displays, and
using Mark Crispin's c-client drivers for message store access (both
local and remote message stores).

Using this strategy, we are planning to support the following operating
systems, display, and mail protocol combinations:

 OS        - Unix, DOS, OS/2 v2, MacOS, NT
 Displays  - X11 (R4, R5, Openlook, Motif), MS Windows v3, Presentation
             Manager, Mac Finder
 MAP Protocols - IMAP2, P7, PP7
 MTP Protocols - SMTP, P1

It is our full intention to make this run on as many platforms, with as
many different mail application protocols as possible.  

With ECSMail we plan to provide many interesting features, such as:

  * Multi-part, multimedia mail messages:

    - supporting both MIME and X.400 message formats

    - files (e.g. binaries, images, text, voice, application) can be
      attached and sent along with the message.

    - the different parts of the messsage can be extracted
      and displayed (using the necessary application) to the user.

  * Multiple simultaneous folder access and management (drag and drop
    messages or blocks of messages between folders).

  * Hierarchical folder structures.

  * Virtual folders within folders.   Messages can be grouped using any
    combination of message header criteria into a virtual folder.
    Messages in a virtual folder can be listed and manipulated as
    a single object.   This supports threading of messages within
    folders. 

  * Integration of multicast (mail) and broadcast (NEWS, BBS) message
    stores via into a single interface.  NEWS groups appear as a list of
    folders and threading of broadcast messages will be supported.

  * Privancy Enhanced Mail (PEM).   Support encryption of message parts,
    digital signatures, and digital timestamps.

  * Forms mail.  Messages can be composed inside of a forms interface
    as a special message part.   It will include form design and
    display tools.

  * Draft message support.   Users will be able to create and store
    standard draft messages, and select draft messages from both public
    and private draft message stores.

  * Integration with "mail enabled applications".  

  * Personal configuration files.

  * Asynchronous new mail notification.

  * Personal address book lookup and management. Addresses can be loaded
    manually, copied from incoming mail, or copied from an X.500 DUA
    (see next).

  * Integration with X.500 Directory Services.  The user can query local
    and network-wide address information while composing messages.
    Addresses can be copied from the Directory User Agent to the user's
    local address book. This facility will be optionally available for
    those who have the X.500 Directory Service capability.

What Is Available Now
---------------------

A BETA demonstration version of the Microsoft Windows version of ECSMail is
available via anonymous ftp from

  ftp.srv.ualberta.ca

in the directory

  /pub/windows/utilities/ecs.tar.Z

This version of ECSMail only supports the TCP/IP based mail access and
transport protocols (IMAP2, SMTP), and can deliver MIME format messages.
It provides what we term "basic functionality" - it does the things that
most mailers do.   Features such as the virtual folders, and NEWS
message sources have not been implemented at this time.

We encourage you to get the software and try it out.  This version of
ecs is released for demonstration purposes only - IT IS NOT CURRENTLY IN
THE PUBLIC DOMAIN.  As I have mentioned earlier, we are not currently
charging for the product, and are in the process of evaluating different
forms of funding for the software.

There are some restrictions on what you can do with the software at this
time.   The mailer is designed to support several different TCP/IP
stacks through the use of Windows DLLs.   Currently we support the
following TCP/IP stacks:

  * Beame and Whiteside - BWTCP 2.x
  * Sun Microsystems - PCNFS 4.x
  * DEC Pathworks v

We are currently working on providing:

  * Microsoft WinSock DLL compliance
  * FTP Software - PCTCP 2.04

If you are interested in supporting another TCP/IP stack, then provide
us with a copy of the stack and development kit - it must have a sockets
API - and we'll try to provide a DLL interface for it.  

How will we fund ECSMail?
-------------------------

There are two funding methods for ECSMail - maintenance contracts and
development contracts.

Maintenance contracts are signed with organizations that want support
and software maintenance on the ECSMail software.   This will include
free software upgrades and immediate response to software problems.

The cost of the maintenance is designed to be far less than
purchase->upgrade cost of conventional shrinkwrapped software.  The cost
is based on the number of installations that are in place.  The
organization will never be charged more than an agreed upon maximum.  As
the number of installations increases, the per seat cost decreases such
that maximum is never exceeded.  An organization can install as many
copies of ECSMail as they like.

Development contracts are signed to produce new functionality in the
ECSMail product.   ISA has identified a number of potential
functionality improvements that it would like to make to ECSMail.
We also believe that clients will have a number of features that they
would like to see added to the product.

The cost of the contract is determined by the amount of work required to
complete the development, and the number of organizations contributing
to the development.   The more organizations that contribute, the lower
the cost.   ISA publishes a detailed list of feature development
projects that it plans to run in the ecs-info mailing list (see below).  

Mailing lists
-------------

There is an ecs mailing list.   To join the mailing list send a message
to

  ecs-info-request@edm.isac.ca

To submit messages to the mailing list, send mail to

  ecs-info@edm.isac.ca

If there are problems with the list, then send mail to

  owner-ecs-info@edm.isac.ca

--Part9303241319A--


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 24 13:30:24 1993
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Date:         Wed, 24 Mar 93 16:14:36 EST
From: Jim Ennis <JIM@ucf1vm.cc.ucf.edu>
Subject:      Directory Services and Pine
To: Pine Info List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Status: RO
X-Status: 


Hello,

 I am working on email project at my University for a campus wide email
system.  We have about 20000 students who are *potential* users of this
system, but in the short term I only expect a few hundred.  We are
considering using Pine as the primary email system, but we are looking
for recommendations for either commercial or (hopefully) public domain
directory services packages.  The hardware is an IBM RS/6000 53E.

I would appreciate any comments from people who have done this in the
past (especially in the areas of disk space allocation and the number
of dialup ports to have available).

Jim Ennis
University of Central Florida


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 25 05:40:53 1993
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Date: Thu, 25 Mar 93 08:37:33 -0500
From: Chris Maukonen <chris@aquarius.cc.ucf.edu>
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Subject: ECSMail
Message-Id: <Mailstrom.1.03.8141.15089.chris@aquarius.cc.ucf.edu>
Content-Type: TEXT/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
X-Status: 



Thanks for the info. ECSMail looks neet and will be waiting for the Mac
version.
As for the PC side, we run a very large NOVELL network here and have pretty
much standardized on the ODI dirvers and dos worplace for windows. We also
use the ODI packet drivers. I do not have that much contact with this area 
though as a whole different group manages it.

Anyway, thanks again.


Chris



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 25 08:19:21 1993
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Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1993 11:07:20 -0500 (EST)
From: Virtual Dave Lankes <rdlankes@ericir.syr.edu>
Subject: Group save and delete features
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303251120.B25133-a100000@ericir.syr.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
X-Status: 

We have PINE going here at SU (well, really the ERIC Clearinghouse), and
are looking to move it to the larger campus. We have to basic things we
need the system to do however for more advanced users. We need to move a
bunch of messages from one folder to another at the same time (group
save). We also need to be able to group delete (delete 1-20 like in
MH-Mail (yuck)). Is there a way of already doing this? Can this be added?

I know most of the features were most likely left out or hidden for novice
users, but is there a way of adding them to the old-growth user level when
it is fully implemented?

.........................................
: R.David Lankes (a.k.a."Virtual Dave") :
: Technical Consultant AskERIC Project  :
:   Coordinator Oliver/AEGIS Project    :
:         Syracuse University           :
:     School of Information Studies     : 
:       rdlankes@ericir.syr.edu         :
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 25 08:58:35 1993
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Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1993 08:46:15 -0800 (PST)
From: Terry Gray <gray@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Re: Group save and delete features
To: Virtual Dave Lankes <rdlankes@ericir.syr.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303251120.B25133-a100000@ericir.syr.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303250813.A4198-b100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: RO
X-Status: 

Group operations are on the list for old-growth enhancements.
Unfortunately, I can't give you a date yet, but they are definitely coming.

-teg


On Thu, 25 Mar 1993, Virtual Dave Lankes wrote:

> We have PINE going here at SU (well, really the ERIC Clearinghouse), and
> are looking to move it to the larger campus. We have to basic things we
> need the system to do however for more advanced users. We need to move a
> bunch of messages from one folder to another at the same time (group
> save). We also need to be able to group delete (delete 1-20 like in
> MH-Mail (yuck)). Is there a way of already doing this? Can this be added?
> 
> I know most of the features were most likely left out or hidden for novice
> users, but is there a way of adding them to the old-growth user level when
> it is fully implemented?
> 
> .........................................
> : R.David Lankes (a.k.a."Virtual Dave") :
> : Technical Consultant AskERIC Project  :
> :   Coordinator Oliver/AEGIS Project    :
> :         Syracuse University           :
> :     School of Information Studies     : 
> :       rdlankes@ericir.syr.edu         :
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> 
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 25 10:15:45 1993
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	id AA06450; Thu, 25 Mar 93 19:12:05 +0100
From: adho@mix.hsv.no (Dirk Holmen)
Message-Id: <9303251812.AA06450@mix.hsv.no>
Subject: Pine on InterActive
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1993 19:12:05 +0100 (MET)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL20]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 404       
Status: O
X-Status: 

Is there anyone out there who could help me with
installing/compiling Pine-3.05 unto a PC486 which
is running Unix InterActive (386/ix).
I tried the two ports that was included into the package.
That is port-sv3 and port-isc, none of these would
compile proper. Maybe somebody knows where I could get the
binaries ?



Holmen, Dirk
Sysop M.I.X.
The Vestfold College, School of Maritime Studies.
Norway.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Thu Mar 25 13:24:51 1993
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Date: Thu, 25 Mar 1993 14:17:41 -0700
Message-Id: <9303252117.AA08342@bercilak.Colorado.EDU>
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
From: maloneyd@bercilak.Colorado.EDU
Subject: pine failure
Status: O
X-Status: 

We are running PINE 3.05a on an IBM RS6000 (AIX 3.2) and experience an
infrequent problem that causes PINE to lock up.  This occurs on network
connections and serial lines.  It happens more frequently when documents
are forwarded or replied to.

Any ideas?

The department really likes the email software, and would appreciate any
help you could lend.  Thanks.

*****************************************|**********************************
Dennis M. Maloney       	       	       	|
Assistant Director of Telecom            | 
Univ. of Colorado, Boulder Campus        |Voice:  	(303) 492-1282
Campus Box 313 	        	       	        |Fax:    	(303) 492-5105
Boulder, CO 80309-0313    	       	     
Email:maloneyd@bercilak.colorado.edu 	   	
****************************************************************************




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Fri Mar 26 22:35:17 1993
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Date: Sat, 27 Mar 1993 00:19:04 -0600 (CST)
From: Matt Simmons <zarthac@cs1.bradley.edu>
Subject: BUG DETECTED IN PINE
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303270004.A10242-b100000@cs1.bradley.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

If you are using pine and the connection is closed (in my case rlogging
into camelot from cs1, where camelot has a maximum idle time thing) while
the inbox is open, all of your mail can disappear.

Here's what I did, to the best of my recall:

	1. read a few news messages from a 700k file
	2. transferred back to inbox
	3. went to see School Ties (good movie)
	4. came back, and the connection was closed
	5. re-logged into camelot, and /var/mail/zarthac was empty.

I sent myself mail from cs1 and it arrived properly, so mailagent is
working.  Mailagent's log doesn't report anything funny, so it wasn't the
problem.  Barring the sysadmins deleting all of my mail or saving it to a
file (there is no file, and there wasn't enough mail to attract attention
in the first place), I believe pine is the problem.


	zarthac@cs1.bradley.edu                               __
							     ///
Never hit a man with glasses  --                            ///	
		Hit him with a baseball bat.	       __  ///
						       \\\///	
         Anybody have the address for Earth Last?	\XX/ Amiga




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 28 07:06:57 1993
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          id <03501-0@tosca.er.sintef.no>; Sun, 28 Mar 1993 17:02:06 +0200
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 16:57:22 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Steinar Haug <Steinar.Haug@delab.sintef.no>
Subject: Why does pine ask 'Reply to all recipients?' when only one recipient?
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303281622.A3454-a100000@tosca.er.sintef.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

Immediately after I started using pine, I discovered one feature of
pine which I found very confusing (and still do). The problem is this:

If I receive a message with only one recipient (myself), and I try to
reply to this, pine will ask (after I have typed ^X to send it):

	Reply to all recipients? (y/n) [n]:

It seems logical to me that pine should do this if a message has many
recipients. But why on earth should I get this question when there is
only one recipient?

Can I change this behavior through a setting in .pinerc? I haven't dug
into the code which handles this at all...

Steinar Haug, system/networks administrator
SINTEF RUNIT, University of Trondheim, NORWAY
Email: Steinar.Haug@runit.sintef.no, Steinar.Haug@delab.sintef.no



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 28 07:20:51 1993
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Received: from delab.sintef.no by tosca.er.sintef.no with SMTP (PP) 
          id <03380-0@tosca.er.sintef.no>; Sun, 28 Mar 1993 16:43:08 +0200
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 16:18:22 +0200 (MET DST)
From: Steinar Haug <Steinar.Haug@delab.sintef.no>
Subject: Bug in pine_send() (malloc'ed buffer is too small)
To: pine-bugs@cac.washington.edu
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303281622.A3307-b100000@tosca.er.sintef.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

When I started up pine today, it bombed out on me when I tried to compose a
message. (Actually "bombed out" is too strong: It caught a SEGV signal, and
gave me a nice descriptive error message.)

I spent some time tracking it down, and this is what I found. In pine/send.c,
in routine pine_send(), a buffer of 40 characters is malloc'ed, and then
rfc822_date() is called to put a properly formatted date field into this
buffer. However, the date field that I got today looks like this:

	Sun, 28 Mar 1993 16:00:54 +0200 (MET DST)

This field is 41 characters long, not including the terminating NULL.  The
reason it has not occurred earlier is probably that we switched to Daylight
Savings Time here in Norway last night.

By the way, it's not obvious to me that this date field conforms to RFC 822.
The problem is in the timezone specification. The way I read it, you should
have either a numeric zone specification or an alphanumeric one but not both.
Comments?

I made the following simple fix to pine_send():
----------------------------------------------------------------------
*** send.c.orig	Mon Aug 31 23:48:27 1992
--- send.c	Sun Mar 28 16:08:53 1993
***************
*** 441,447 ****
  
      /*----- Fill in a few general parts of the envelope ----*/
      if(outgoing->date == NULL)
!       outgoing->date = fs_get(40); /* Date's always 30 or so */
      rfc822_date(outgoing->date);
  
      if(outgoing->subject == NULL) {
--- 441,447 ----
  
      /*----- Fill in a few general parts of the envelope ----*/
      if(outgoing->date == NULL)
!       outgoing->date = fs_get(50); /* Date's up to 42 characters */
      rfc822_date(outgoing->date);
  
      if(outgoing->subject == NULL) {
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Steinar Haug, system/networks administrator
SINTEF RUNIT, University of Trondheim, NORWAY
Email: Steinar.Haug@runit.sintef.no, Steinar.Haug@delab.sintef.no



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 28 09:18:43 1993
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	id AA16695; Sun, 28 Mar 93 11:22:47 EST
Date: 	Sun, 28 Mar 1993 11:16:13 -0500
From: Ian Lumb <ian@vortex.yorku.ca>
Subject: Confirmation of mail received (fwd)
To: PINE INFO <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05.9303281112.F16655-a100000@vortex.yorku.ca>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

One of our local users has an interesting question: 

   ? Is there any way that one can confirm that a * specific * message 
   ? sent to someone on [our local host] was received/read?

I should add as background, that this particular user is a regular VAX VMS
user, who is accustomed to such a feature available on this other
platform. 

Perhaps the solution would involve some combination of pine's features and
those of finger. Perhaps there already exists such a feature in finger? 

Any thoughts?

Ian.



--
Ian Lumb     Internet: <ian@vortex.yorku.ca>
Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817




From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 28 12:49:24 1993
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	id AA19382; Sun, 28 Mar 1993 15:42:50 -0500
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 15:34:59 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Confirmation of mail received (fwd)
To: Ian Lumb <ian@vortex.yorku.ca>
Cc: PINE INFO <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303281112.F16655-a100000@vortex.yorku.ca>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303281559.A19232-b100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hello Ian,

The short answer is that Internet e-mail does not support this facility,
and Pine is committed to adhering to Internet Standards in order to
preserve interoperability in the long run.

This feature, usually known as return-receipt-requested, is easy to
implement within a closed e-mail system like VMS Mail or LAN based mail,
but is not easy to implement across many platforms as would be appropriate
for an Internet mailer. I doubt that it works in VMS Mail if you send mail
to a non-VMS mail user. 

There was a bit of a long discussion on this here a month or two ago.

LL



On Sun, 28 Mar 1993, Ian Lumb wrote:

> One of our local users has an interesting question: 
> 
>    ? Is there any way that one can confirm that a * specific * message 
>    ? sent to someone on [our local host] was received/read?
> 
> I should add as background, that this particular user is a regular VAX VMS
> user, who is accustomed to such a feature available on this other
> platform. 
> 
> Perhaps the solution would involve some combination of pine's features and
> those of finger. Perhaps there already exists such a feature in finger? 
> 
> Any thoughts?
> 
> Ian.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Ian Lumb     Internet: <ian@vortex.yorku.ca>
> Earth & Atmospheric Science, York University
> North York, Ontario  M3J 1P3,  CANADA
> Voice: (416) 736-5245; Fax: (416) 736-5817
> 
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 28 14:17:45 1993
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Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 13:47:33 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: Bug in pine_send() (malloc'ed buffer is too small)
To: Steinar Haug <Steinar.Haug@delab.sintef.no>
Cc: pine-bugs@cac.washington.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303281622.A3307-b100000@tosca.er.sintef.no>
Message-Id: <MailManager.733355253.12024.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: O
X-Status: 

Steinar -

     Thank you very much for your Pine bug report.  I expect that it will be
fixed in the forthcoming new release of Pine.

     The date format used by Pine is legal according to RFC-822.  The timezone
is in parenthesis, making it a comment.  The timezone that a parser sees is
the numeric one.

     We used numeric timezones because RFC-822 only permits the two synonyms
for Coordinated Universal time (UT and GMT), four of the timezones used in the
Americas and their summer time equivalents (EST/EDT, CST/CDT, MST/MDT,
PST/PDT), and the single-letter military timezones (although RFC-822 documents
them incorrectly; A is +1000 and N is -1000).  [Although charges of ``US-
centricism'' have been made, note that not even all the US timezones are
covered!]  Since some areas use non-integral hour offsets from UT, not even
the military time zone names are adequate for world-wide usage.

     Since many people find symbolic timezones more friendly, and because
there are no restrictions on what appears in a comment, we put the local
symbolic timezone, when known, in a comment.  Thus our friends in Japan can
see ``JST'', while in Korea (who are in the same timezone) they see ``KST'',
and of course you can use ``MET DST''.

     You are quite right that it is a bug that Pine assume that the local
timezone string is no more than 5 characters long.  The fs_get of only 40
bytes was most likely due to an excessive effort to save memory (something
that has become quite important with the DOS port!).  It would probably be
better to allocate something like 64 bytes to be safe.

     Thank you again for your interest in Pine.

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 28 14:17:46 1993
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	id AA11693; Sun, 28 Mar 93 14:02:23 -0800
From: westes@netcom.com (Will Estes)
Message-Id: <9303282202.AA11693@netcom.netcom.com>
Subject: Re: Confirmation of mail received (fwd)
To: lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu (Laurence Lundblade)
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 93 14:02:23 PST
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.81.9303281559.A19232-b100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>; from "Laurence Lundblade" at Mar 28, 93 3:34 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.3 PL11]
Status: O
X-Status: 

'Laurence Lundblade says:'
> The short answer is that Internet e-mail does not support this facility,
> and Pine is committed to adhering to Internet Standards in order to
> preserve interoperability in the long run.

I don't want to re-hash the previous discussion in its entirety, but
I would like to make the comment that Return-Receipt-To: is one of
the most useful features supported on Internet mail today.

I frequently send mail to systems that occasionally lose mail, and
when I send something that is critical, I include a
Return-Receipt-To: to verify its receipt.  Only about 70% of the
hosts out there support this feature, but that is enough to make it
quite useful.  If there were only *one* host out there that
supported it, and I was sending mail to that host, I would want to
be able to use it.

The privacy issue that Mark Crispin raises is really not a reason to
remove this capability for all users.  At best, it is a
justification for an application feature in sendmail (or whatever
application generates the return receipt) that lets you
restrict notification back to a particular user, depending on the
user destination of his note.

So, all I can say is that I use Return-Receipt-To: successfully from
other mailers every three-to-four days, and that this facility is
supported informally by enough Internet hosts to make it truly
useful.  

-- 
Thanks,
Will Estes              Internet: westes@netcom.com
U.S. Computer           Cupertino, CA  95014


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 28 14:20:30 1993
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Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 14:01:35 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: Confirmation of mail received (fwd)
To: Ian Lumb <ian@vortex.yorku.ca>
Cc: PINE INFO <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.05.9303281112.F16655-a100000@vortex.yorku.ca>
Message-Id: <MailManager.733356095.12024.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

Ian -

     This is a frequently asked question, and one that involves a great deal
of controversy.  Without going into the intense religious arguments that have
been expressed on the subject (and I have been as guilty as any!), the
technical answer is that there is no method today which is reliable enough to
be used.  It would be quite confusing to Pine's users to have a feature that
only works sometimes.

     I have found that preceeding a message with ``Please acknowledge receipt
of this message'' in the text of the message works quite reliably in getting a
return receipt to me.  Most people will respond to such a request, and those
that don't generally have a specific reason for not doing so.

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 28 19:35:10 1993
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	id AA27029; Sun, 28 Mar 1993 22:27:59 -0500
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 22:24:04 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: Re: Confirmation of mail received (fwd)
To: Will Estes <westes@netcom.com>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <9303282202.AA11693@netcom.netcom.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303282203.C26724-9100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

Yeah, from a marketing, non-purist point of view it might make sense to
add this to Pine as it comes up againts other mailer that can do it. It's
also probably not going to be any less effective than the others since
they're crossing gateways and domains as often. 

LL





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 28 19:38:27 1993
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	id AA26907; Sun, 28 Mar 1993 22:22:12 -0500
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 22:18:10 -0500 (EST)
From: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Subject: re: Bug in pine_send() (malloc'ed buffer is too small)
To: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Cc: Steinar Haug <Steinar.Haug@delab.sintef.no>, pine-bugs@cac.washington.edu,
        pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <MailManager.733355253.12024.mrc@Tomobiki-Cho.CAC.Washington.EDU>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.81.9303282208.A26724-c100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
Status: O
X-Status: 

Hi,
  I think that time zone format is coming from your system some how, not
necessarily generated by Pine. The code that generates that date is in
c-client/os-xxx.c and varies from machine to machine (depends on what port
of Pine you compiled, nxt, ult, sun....) so it would be good if you could
check out what's happening on your machine. 

LL

On Sun, 28 Mar 1993, Mark Crispin wrote:
> 
> Steinar -
> 
>      Thank you very much for your Pine bug report.  I expect that it will be
> fixed in the forthcoming new release of Pine.
> 
>      The date format used by Pine is legal according to RFC-822.  The timezone
> is in parenthesis, making it a comment.  The timezone that a parser sees is
> the numeric one.
> 
>      We used numeric timezones because RFC-822 only permits the two synonyms
> for Coordinated Universal time (UT and GMT), four of the timezones used in the
> Americas and their summer time equivalents (EST/EDT, CST/CDT, MST/MDT,
> PST/PDT), and the single-letter military timezones (although RFC-822 documents
> them incorrectly; A is +1000 and N is -1000).  [Although charges of ``US-
> centricism'' have been made, note that not even all the US timezones are
> covered!]  Since some areas use non-integral hour offsets from UT, not even
> the military time zone names are adequate for world-wide usage.
> 
>      Since many people find symbolic timezones more friendly, and because
> there are no restrictions on what appears in a comment, we put the local
> symbolic timezone, when known, in a comment.  Thus our friends in Japan can
> see ``JST'', while in Korea (who are in the same timezone) they see ``KST'',
> and of course you can use ``MET DST''.
> 
>      You are quite right that it is a bug that Pine assume that the local
> timezone string is no more than 5 characters long.  The fs_get of only 40
> bytes was most likely due to an excessive effort to save memory (something
> that has become quite important with the DOS port!).  It would probably be
> better to allocate something like 64 bytes to be safe.
> 
>      Thank you again for your interest in Pine.
> 
> -- Mark --
> 





From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Sun Mar 28 19:44:26 1993
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Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 19:33:18 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: Bug in pine_send() (malloc'ed buffer is too small)
To: Laurence Lundblade <lgl@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
Cc: Steinar Haug <Steinar.Haug@delab.sintef.no>, pine-bugs@cac.washington.edu,
        pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <Pine.3.81.9303282208.A26724-c100000@csgrad.cs.vt.edu>
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X-Status: 

On Sun, 28 Mar 1993 22:18:10 -0500 (EST), Laurence Lundblade wrote:
>   I think that time zone format is coming from your system some how, not
> necessarily generated by Pine. The code that generates that date is in
> c-client/os-xxx.c and varies from machine to machine (depends on what port
> of Pine you compiled, nxt, ult, sun....) so it would be good if you could
> check out what's happening on your machine.

The format of the date, including the timezone information, is generated by
the routine rfc822_date() in c-client's os_xxx.c file.

The symbolic timezone string comes from the system, and ``MET DST'' is a
perfectly reasonable of central European summer time.  So this bug is in our
court, not Steinar's.  Fortunately, this one is easy to fix!

I've seen some pretty funky time formats in other regions of the world that
have surprised our software at times, so it's going to we get informed of any
such problems that come up.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 29 12:30:32 1993
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Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 11:48:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Seibel <mikes@cac.washington.edu>
Reply-To: Michael Seibel <mikes@cac.washington.edu>
Subject: Bug in 3.05 and maintenance release...
To: pine-announce@cac.washington.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <Pine.3.83.9303291014.J9076-0100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=US-ASCII
Status: RO
X-Status: 

We've recently become aware of a particularly nasty bug in pine 3.05 that
results in pine's crashing as the message composer is entered.  The
problem has to do with insufficient date string allocation, and, at many
sites, is exacerbated by a recent change to daylight savings time. 

Thanks to the quick work of Steinar Haug, a fix is available and included
below.  Additionally, work is underway on a maintenance release of pine to
fix this and a number of other bugs.  It will be made available in the
next day or so. 

Apologies for any problems this has caused, and, as always, thanks for
your interest in pine. 

Michael Seibel
Networks and Distributed Computing              mikes@cac.washington.edu
University of Washington, Seattle               (206) 543 - 0359


On Sun, 28 Mar 1993, Steinar Haug wrote, in part:

> I made the following simple fix to pine_send():
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> *** send.c.orig Mon Aug 31 23:48:27 1992
> --- send.c      Sun Mar 28 16:08:53 1993
> ***************
> *** 441,447 ****
> 
>       /*----- Fill in a few general parts of the envelope ----*/
>       if(outgoing->date == NULL)
> !       outgoing->date = fs_get(40); /* Date's always 30 or so */
>       rfc822_date(outgoing->date);
> 
>       if(outgoing->subject == NULL) {
> --- 441,447 ----
> 
>       /*----- Fill in a few general parts of the envelope ----*/
>       if(outgoing->date == NULL)
> !       outgoing->date = fs_get(50); /* Date's up to 42 characters */
>       rfc822_date(outgoing->date);
> 
>       if(outgoing->subject == NULL) {
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------











From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 29 13:12:41 1993
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Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 12:44:29 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@CAC.Washington.EDU>
Subject: re: IMAP vs POP clients
To: Mike Scheuerman <mikes@techbook.com>
Cc: Pine Info <PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU>
In-Reply-To: <m0ndQao-0006XbC@techbook.techbook.com>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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Status: RO
X-Status: 

The IMAP distribution in mail/imap.tar.Z on ftp.cac.washington.edu contains
freeware POP2 and POP3 servers.  These servers have one particular neat
feature in that they are also IMAP clients, so you can use a POP client with
an IMAP server through this software.

POP clients cannot talk directly to an IMAP server unless they have IMAP
support.  However, they can talk to the IMAP distribution POP server, and then
through that connect to an IMAP server.  This is done by logging in to POP as
imapserverhost:user instead of user, e.g.
	ShivaMS.CAC.Washington.EDU:mrc
to log into the IMAP server at ShivaMS.CAC.Washington.EDU as user mrc.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 29 12:22:31 1993
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Reply-To: Michael Seibel <mikes@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.83.9303291014.J9076-0100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
Date:       Mon, 29 Mar 1993 11:48:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Seibel <mikes@cac.washington.edu>
To: Pine Announcement Distribution <pine-announce@cac.washington.edu>
Subject:    Bug in 3.05 and maintenance release...
X-Owner:    pine-announce-request@cac.washington.edu
X-To:       pine-announce@cac.washington.edu, pine-info@cac.washington.edu

We've recently become aware of a particularly nasty bug in pine 3.05 that
results in pine's crashing as the message composer is entered.  The
problem has to do with insufficient date string allocation, and, at many
sites, is exacerbated by a recent change to daylight savings time. 

Thanks to the quick work of Steinar Haug, a fix is available and included
below.  Additionally, work is underway on a maintenance release of pine to
fix this and a number of other bugs.  It will be made available in the
next day or so. 

Apologies for any problems this has caused, and, as always, thanks for
your interest in pine. 

Michael Seibel
Networks and Distributed Computing              mikes@cac.washington.edu
University of Washington, Seattle               (206) 543 - 0359


On Sun, 28 Mar 1993, Steinar Haug wrote, in part:

> I made the following simple fix to pine_send():
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> *** send.c.orig Mon Aug 31 23:48:27 1992
> --- send.c      Sun Mar 28 16:08:53 1993
> ***************
> *** 441,447 ****
> 
>       /*----- Fill in a few general parts of the envelope ----*/
>       if(outgoing->date == NULL)
> !       outgoing->date = fs_get(40); /* Date's always 30 or so */
>       rfc822_date(outgoing->date);
> 
>       if(outgoing->subject == NULL) {
> --- 441,447 ----
> 
>       /*----- Fill in a few general parts of the envelope ----*/
>       if(outgoing->date == NULL)
> !       outgoing->date = fs_get(50); /* Date's up to 42 characters */
>       rfc822_date(outgoing->date);
> 
>       if(outgoing->subject == NULL) {
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------











From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 29 13:57:50 1993
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From: Gordon Good <ggood@css.itd.umich.edu>
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Subject: Kerberized imapd, pine
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 93 16:42:27 -0500

In the document "IMAP2bis - Extensions to the IMAP2 Protocol" under 
Implementation Status, it's mentioned that "A Kerberized IMAP2bis is in
test at a few organizations, but is not yet available for public release."

I'm interested in finding out more about this work - who's doing it, how
far along it is, etc.  We'll probably be deploying imap clients for people
to use, and would like to use Kerberos authentication. 

-Gordon Good
-University of Michigan Information Technology Division


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 29 12:38:40 1993
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From: mikes@techbook.com (Mike Scheuerman)
Subject: IMAP vs POP clients
To: PINE-INFO@CAC.WASHINGTON.EDU (Pine Info)
Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 12:38:01 -0800 (PST)
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL12]
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According to the RFC1176, IMAP can be thought of as a superset of
POP.  Does that mean that a client that supports POP would be able to access
an IMAP server but not get all the functionality or does it mean that only
the functions are similar but the technicalities are different enough to
preclude the use of POP clients with IMAP servers?

The reason this comes up is that we are using QVT/Net to connect to our
server and QVT/Net supports POP3.  We like QVT, but IMAP support doesn't
look very close.

The other extension to the question is: are there POP servers that are
available in the public domain, and do they work well with Pine?

thanks for the help

Mike Scheuerman


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 29 14:45:50 1993
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Date: Mon, 29 Mar 1993 14:18:09 -0800 (PST)
From: Mark Crispin <MRC@Panda.COM>
Subject: re: Kerberized imapd, pine
To: Gordon Good <ggood@css.itd.umich.edu>
Cc: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
In-Reply-To: <9303292142.AA10100@nosegoblin.css.itd.umich.edu>
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Hi -

     The people at CMU are doing the work on IMAP with Kerberos.  We haven't
yet deployed Kerberos at UW (although are planning to), and we will probably
adopt CMU's stuff verbatum.

     One possible contact is John Myers <jgm+@cmu.edu>

-- Mark --



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Mon Mar 29 18:49:13 1993
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 MS.5.6.cantsc.canterbury.ac.nz.sun4_41; Tue, 30 Mar 1993 14:40:51 +1200 (NZST)
Date: 30 Mar 1993 14:40:51 +1200 (NZST)
From: Jason Haar <j.haar@cantva.canterbury.ac.nz>
Subject: Threading...
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Message-Id: <IfhvAn64hFs60dSoVH@cantsc.canterbury.ac.nz>
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X-Andrew-Message-Size: 481+0
X-Contact: phone: +64 3 364-2336, fax: +64 3 364-2332
Organisation: CSC, University of Canterbury, Christchurch, New Zealand.

<nl>
Hi,<nl>
<nl>
Is there any plans to implement threading in mail?<nl>
<nl>
We all know the issue is reaching its peak for UseNet news - but I know we cou=
ld all benefit from threading within Mail as well.<nl>
<nl>
For starters, could pine be "touched" so that it produces a <bold>References:<=
/bold> header along with the <bold>In-Reply-To:</bold> header - <bold>Referenc=
es</bold> is the standard in News for cross-referencing.<nl>
<nl>
As pine already supports basic news reading, this is probably a necessary step=
 anyway...<nl>
<nl>
Just a thought..<nl>
<nl>
Jason Haar


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 31 09:15:18 1993
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Reply-To: Michael Seibel <mikes@cac.washington.edu>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.83.9303301842.B26628-0100000@shiva2.cac.washington.edu>
Date:       Wed, 31 Mar 1993 08:52:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Michael Seibel <mikes@cac.washington.edu>
To: Pine Announcement Distribution <pine-announce@cac.washington.edu>
Subject:    Pine 3.07 available
X-Owner:    pine-announce-request@cac.washington.edu
X-To:       pine-announce@cac.washington.edu

This distribution of pine 3.07 is intended as basically a maintenance
release of pine 3.05.  The changes were limited to the repair of fatal
bugs or bugs that had a simple, well-understood fix. 

Unfortunately, no new enhancements or ports are included (apologies to all
who have shared their ports, but we'll be bugging you as they're worked
into version 4.0!).  The changes from version 3.05 include: 

  - Fixed date buffer overrun causing crash entering composer
  - Fixed to ignore SIGTERM before forking sendmail
  - Fixed rfc822_binary internal logic flaw
  - Fixed composer not to over compare cells on display
  - Fixed race condition sometimes causing image viewing to fail
  - Fixed c-client sensitivity to out of order and blank header fields
  - Fixed Bcc: to wrap in tmp file given to sendmail
  - Fixed bug with display of 8 bit chars
  - Fixed Pico to be 8-bit clean (was already under pine)
  - Proper message number displayed in anchor line of composer
  - Fixed \"Bogus entry in new cache list\" bug
  - Fixed c-client sgi link flags
  - Fixed c-client hp port to use \"remsh\"
  - Fixed folder sorting bug
  - Entering composer, SIGTSTP set to default
  - Added fix for os_ptx date bug
  - More functions distinguish anonymous from news reading mode
  - Changed all makefiles to use $CC

While these fixes have been carefully implemented and tested, there's
always a possibility that something was overlooked or broken in turn. 
Please let us know if you find problems! 

Version 3.07 is now available via ftp from ftp.cac.washington.edu in the
file mail/pine3.07.tar.Z. 

Thanks for your patience with us and interest in pine!

Michael Seibel
Networks and Distributed Computing              mikes@cac.washington.edu
University of Washington, Seattle               (206) 543 - 0359


PS - This is 3.07 because 3.06 was an evolutionary step not distributed 
     outside the UW.



From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 31 18:32:27 1993
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	(5.65/UW-NDC Revision: 2.28 ) id AA23441; Wed, 31 Mar 93 18:21:03 -0800
Subject: Existing ports to date?
To: pine-info@cac.washington.edu
Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 21:20:54 -0500 (EST)
From: Steven E Frazier <sfrazier@norstan.com>
Reply-To: Steven E Frazier <sfrazier@norstan.com>
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL21]
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Message-Id:  <9303312120.aa06057@eng.norstan.com>

What are the existing ports to date for pine and pico?

	1. 386bsd?
	2. BSD/386?
	3. Others:

Thanks.

Steve


-- 
Norstan Communications, Inc.        | Steven E. Frazier
8101 N. High Street Suite 100       |---------------------------------------
Columbus, OH   43235                | Local : sfrazier
Voice 614-785-7335 Fax 614-785-7337 | Remote: sfrazier@norstan.com


From owner-pine-info@cac.washington.edu  Wed Mar 31 20:44:34 1993
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Date: Wed, 31 Mar 1993 21:29:55 -0700 (MST)
From: "J. Scott Farrow" <farrow@fido.colorado.edu>
Subject: Re: Existing ports to date?
To: Pine Information Mailing List <pine-info@cac.washington.edu>
In-Reply-To: <9303312120.aa06057@eng.norstan.com>
Message-Id: <Pine.3.05a.9303312154.A7667-a100000@fido.Colorado.EDU>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Wed, 31 Mar 1993, Steven E Frazier wrote:

> What are the existing ports to date for pine and pico?
> 
> 	1. 386bsd?
> 	2. BSD/386?
> 	3. Others:
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Steve
> -- 
> Norstan Communications, Inc.        | Steven E. Frazier
> 8101 N. High Street Suite 100       |---------------------------------------
> Columbus, OH   43235                | Local : sfrazier
> Voice 614-785-7335 Fax 614-785-7337 | Remote: sfrazier@norstan.com

Some others that I know of offhand are Ultrix, AIX 3.2, and Linux.

Maybe just looking at the source would be a good start here?

Scott

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