




From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 00:26
Subject: Re: Strange Question.

David Whitbeck indited:

+That reminds me: now that most of the people who wanted Bringing Origami to
+Life have it, what do you think?

I've been avoiding saying anything about it because I hadn't yet folded a
majority of models from it.

I had high hopes for this "closed back" book. Perhaps too high. I had
expected all the models to be closed back. They're not.

I love the Swan and Sparrow. I was dissapointed to find out the Eagle
was not closed back. The Parrot has a funny head, as a local folder
pointed out, it looks more vulturish. I had folded one and thought it
was not vulturish, but when I went back to it and looked again, it
was.

The horse had the potential to replace the one from Origami Sculpture's
as his best horse, but it cames out looking like a Donkey. The neck
width and the neck head proportions just aren't quite right.

This is definitely a wet folding book. The initial bird models, in
addition to being beautifully simple to fold an amazingly elegant as a
result, are also quite nice in plain old kami. The Swan in particular
makes excellent use of dry tensioning. Unfortunately, the models later
in the book do not do so well with just plain dry kami. Wetfolded they
would be very nice.

The size of the final models compared to the size of the starting
square is very good. Unfortunately a side effect of that is that a
piece of 10" kami is just a bit too thin to get good results on all the
models.

I really wanted to like this book a lot. I like several of the models
very much, but overall...

I hate to say anything negative, but perhaps these comments will help
somone else with overly elevated expectations avoid a negative reality
check. ;-)

-D'gou





From: DORIGAMI@AOL.COM
Date: 20 Jan 2000 00:27
Subject: Re: When to share origami? from Dorigami

In a message dated 1/19/00 11:35:47 PM, FoldingCA@WEBTV.NET writes:

<< Now let me ask you a hypothetical question, Doug.  If Adolf Hitler had
been apprehended and wrote you from prison, would you feel compelled to
send him paper and diagrams because sharing is the way of origami?
 >>

I have pondered this question for days now and have asked myself this
question about Hitler and other nazis.  Have not arrived at an answer yet.
But I have thought that a prisoner who is busy will be a much easier prisoner
to deal with and control.  I saw this in action in the nursing home in which
I worked.  Some of the most rotten people were much easier to work with if
they were occupied.  I also know that to some questions there are no answers.
 And this is a tough one.  No I don't think I would send paper and diagrams
and I do not approve of selling the work on E-Bay if the profit goes to the
prisoner or to anyone else but the family of the victims, but I do believe
that if the person happened to get hold of paper on his own I could not
object since I feel that origami can be rehabilitative to some degree.  This
man has indeed done monstrous things but who knows why or what circumstances
made him do it.  In my mind he could not have been sane to do such things,
but if he can do origami he must be very smart and  perhaps not be sane at
the same time. Dorigami





From: Christopher Holt <Ella-mae@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 02:39
Subject: Re: Strange Question.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Philips" <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Subject: Re: Strange Question.

> David Whitbeck indited:
> +That reminds me: now that most of the people who wanted Bringing Origami
to
> +Life have it, what do you think?

> I hate to say anything negative, but perhaps these comments will help
> somone else with overly elevated expectations avoid a negative reality
> check. ;-)
>
> -D'gou

That is the one issue I have about this group, I'd never heard of a book
before I'd encountered it before, so I never HAD expectations. Like all his
books, he's got some great models, but this one, for me has some real neat
forms. the ibis , the swallow, the anteater and the coyote all have great
potential to be mediocre, but what doesn't. I don't think I've ever totally
nailed a Montroll fold first time. Those are my favorites from Bringing
Origami to Life, but I'd also like to add Lang's duck from Complete Origami,
and the one from Origami in Action to my list of all-time favorites. All the
best - c!!!

=================================

      With clear melting dew
      I'd try to wash away the dust
      of this floating world
                                  --Basho





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 03:13
Subject: (NO) Re: When to share origami?

Dorothy Engleman schrieb:
> Aren't we romanticising origami and the people who fold?  Just because a
You must be working in the health business, nobody else says 'we' when
she means 'you' :-).

> mass murderer does origami, does that make him gentle and caring?  Would
What makes you think a mass murderer isn't capable of enjoying beauty
and art? That's the good old simple black/white scheme: Someone is
either completely bad, or completely good. And if he's bad, there can't
possibly be anything good, gentle, or positive in him. It is a very
naive view of human nature.

Obviously, Ng DOES have gentle and caring aspects in him; that doesn't
make him a nice guy, but it proves that humans can be rather
complex creatures, with the capability of being both devil and saint at
the same time (tell me if I'm overdoing it <g>).

> we confer Ng with tender qualities if he listened to Chopin waltzes all
> day?   I do not wish to remember Ng as a man who is able to appreciate
> the wonders of origami when the families and friends of his victims will
> spend the rest of their lives remembering him as the homicidal monster
> who murdered their loved ones.
Nobody asks YOU to remember Ng in any particular way. Remember him in
any way you want to (personally, I prefer to forget mass murderers and
remember good people instead), but don't impose your own views on
others, neither on us, nor on the families of his victims. You're free
to demonize Ng, but from what I've read about torture victims and trauma
recovery (whatever the English expression may be), it won't help the
families of his victims if they do the same.

> Now let me ask you a hypothetical question, Doug.  If Adolf Hitler had
> been apprehended and wrote you from prison, would you feel compelled to
> send him paper and diagrams because sharing is the way of origami?
Adolf Hitler was a pet lover. He'd probably ask for pet magazines, not
origami paper. Sigmund Freud, the great psychiatrist, was a cocaine
addict (and maybe even a dealer, haven't checked his bio lately). Helmut
Kohl, the great architect of the reunion of East and West Germany, is in
the middle of an embarrassing affair about  donations to his party (and
possibly himself, too). I'm sure Stalin had his good sides, too. On the
other hand, I read that Mother Theresa was an authoritative dictator
that was very hard to get along with.

Matthias





From: Christopher Holt <Ella-mae@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 04:41
Subject: Re: (NO) Re: When to share origami?

Adolf Hitler was a painter (what would've happened if he hadn't flunked out
of art school?-- that explains why it's so hard to do now). Stalin had hopes
of being a priest. Who knows, maybe the mongol horde rode with fuzzy
Garfields suction-cupped to their saddles and skull caps, eh? I'm sure their
neighbors thought they were nice quiet boys, just letting of steam on the
week-end. You can't really get too far if your system has to be redefined
every time you learn a new parameter. If you had no idea that it was going
to a killer it's okay, but the minute you find out, it's wrong? That
promotes either ignorance or psychosis. A rule is better the fewer "what if"
's it takes to change it. That is; your system is more dependable the more
it relies on strong, fairly immutable premises. There is an origin or start
level of respect that any human should be given simply as being in kingdom
animalia, and Homo sapiens as well. Contrary to popular mythology, murder is
quite common in the animal kingdom, and plant, protist, and fungi as well (I
don't know of any murderous bacteria, but I wouldn't put it past the
coniving little bastards...), and not a trait peculiar to humans. It is true
that few species go to war as humans do, and we're also the only species
that incarcerates it members, despite the fact that we are not the only
social species--far from it. In a non-Neitzchian sense, I'm saying that if
you step outside a personal system of moral codes, go beyond good and evil
and try to find their meta-system, you come to see things as harmonic or
dischordant, contructively or destructively interfering sets of values,
ideals and identities forming a space-time of experience, just as the motion
of subatomic particles paint a moving
nuclear-electric-magnetic-gravitational thing we call reality. Humanity is
as wily as a blob of mercury, and about as easy to nail down. It does not
present black and white situations. There are no absolutes, as a circle has
no ends, unless you look at it from the side, that is. Blahblahblah. Give
the man his paper and save your worry for the families of his victims. Or
not. I enjoy having the rule of sharing origami as a just that--a rule.
Perhaps this ties in more with the spirituality question, but I think that
it is a beautiful and rare approach to an art/craft, part of what makes
origami so special (along with ice sculpture, but I'm not giving Ng a chain
saw and chisels for his birthday). Gone on too long, sorry! All the best -
c!!!

=================================

      With clear melting dew
      I'd try to wash away the dust
      of this floating world
                                  --Basho





From: Alan Shutko <ats@ACM.ORG>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 08:25
Subject: subject lines?

Dorothy Engleman <FoldingCA@WEBTV.NET> writes:

> Aren't we romanticising origami and the people who fold?  Just because a
> mass murderer does origami, does that make him gentle and caring?  Would
> we confer Ng with tender qualities if he listened to Chopin waltzes all
> day?

A minor request... would it be possible for people continuing this
thread to keep "Ng" in the subject line?  It slows things down
considerably to have my software check every message body when
filtering things.

--
Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - In a variety of flavors!
ASCII a stupid question, you get an EBCDIC answer.





From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@AHAND.UNICAMP.BR>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 08:47
Subject: (long) "Bringing O. to Life" WAS: Re: Strange Question.

>>From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
>>
>>That reminds me: now that most of the people who wanted Bringing Origami to
>>Life have it, what do you think?

I got all Montroll books except O. American Style almost immediately after
published, so it's easy perceiving his "evolutionary" trends, like:
Origami for the Enthusiast (OftE)/Animal Origami for the Enthusiast (AOftE):
  revolutionary new bases, or use of older bases
Prehistoric Origami (PO): full computer diagrams
Origami Sculptures (OS): 3D _uber alles_
Origami Inside-Out (OIO): obviously, exploring the reverse side,
  a trend touched by African Animals in Origami (AAiO)
Mithological Creatures and the Chinese Zodiacal in Origami (MCatCZO): easier
  folding maneuvers frequently explored

And now with BOtL, apparently the "main trend" is "larger models from
less paper" (a good thing) and "closed backs" (maybe). I must say I don't
think a closed-back _per se_ makes a model better. Of course a
narrow strip of white showing in an open back can be distracting,
but hardly a major blemish.
Putting a closed back as a paramount objective casts some
potential disadvantages:
- when "closing" (pairing the legs together) a thick-layered model, there's
a lot of stress on the outermost single layer, which can be easily ripped
or chipped in the common crimps used for making necks and rumps. Compare,
e.g., Albertino's cheetah's head and back (which BTW has an open back
_with_ a closing flap) sections.
- frequently legs appear from "under" the belly like from a woman's shirt;
compare fore limbs in Montroll's horse in BOtL with the horse+rider: the
latter suggests longer limbs, and are also more easily folded in different
poses.

Beginning with OIO, I felt a growing disappointment on Montroll's style
in a very particular aspect: after starting with a detailed, realistic
approach, he was now seemingly concentrated on finding folder-friendly
techniques which not necessarily brought the best proportions.
For instance, take the method repeated to exhaustion in MCatCZO for mammal
legs: from a rectangular book-folded step, pleat twice in opposite
ends, then squash four times to narrow the middle section (i.e., belly).
Easy, no doubt. Now compare the average length vs. thickness of the
resulting leg with say, the average leg in his first books. In many (most?)
animals from AAiO (ibis, flamingo, zebra/spotted giraffe...) onwards, one
can't make knees and ankles by reverse folds or double rabbit-ears: you
must crush, squeeze and bend a thick stub. Maybe not so bad for
wet-folding, but in sharp folded foil it detracts from the clean lines
in the rest of the model.
Another consequence is the greater frequency of "cartoonish" proportions,
absent from his former books. Compare the pegasus in OftE and horses in
OS, MCatCZO and BOtL.

Please note: I greatly admire Montroll's work, not the least his consistent
output - 15 or so books in nearly two decades - and will wholeheartedly
recommend any of his books to anyone. I just think this trend towards
easier models has sacrificed too much of the good proportions which awed
me so much in OftE and AOftE.

Now to my actual opinion on BOtL: this book slightly redeems my complaints
about proportions (except by the elephant) - in particular the introductory
duck, swan and goose are much more interesting than versions in previous
books. I folded several models and they came right the first time with
6" plain kami (a little postwetting helps final 3D modeling). There are
no long folding sequences, and I don't doubt the remaining models will be
likewise easy to fold.
For this book Montroll openly encourages the reader to compare folding
sequences and variations on a theme.  Also, after a long break (since OS)
Montroll finally returns to B&W photographs (albeit very small) of
finished models, a plus for shaping.
Models include duck, swan, goose, sparrow, swallow, eagle, ibis,
crane, sparrow, seated cat, seated dog (a variation), horse, bear,
anteater, bison, crocodile, howling coyote, horse + rider, elephant.
The crocodile and ibis have fingers.
As usual, very clear diagrams and Montroll's "trademarked" introduction
to basic folds.

        Sincerely,
                Carlos
        furuti@ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 08:49
Subject: Bringing Origami to Life (was: Re: Strange Question.)

In reply to my mini-review, Christopher Holt indited:

+That is the one issue I have about this group, I'd never heard of a book
+before I'd encountered it before, so I never HAD expectations.

That can be good, as you imply, and not so good. From time to time some of the
less vocal members of this list pipe up to say that they're the only folder
they know (in person), and for anyone who is trying to get books via
interlibrary loan, or mail order and can't see them first... it could help.

+books, he's got some great models, but this one, for me has some real neat
+forms. the ibis , the swallow, the anteater and the coyote all have great
+potential to be mediocre, but what doesn't.

Ah, the pitfallllllls of a short review... The ibis is another model
that I really wanted to like. But the legs are so thick and bulky that
they practically have to be wet folded to hold the diagrammed form and
look nice.  The Swallow is nice in plain old kami. The Coyote is OK.

+                                            I don't think I've ever totally
+nailed a Montroll fold first time. Those are my favorites from Bringing
+Origami to Life...

I suppose I have a few "complaints" (though that is a stronger word than I'd
like to use) about the book:
        The funky proportions on the Parrot head and Horse head/neck
            are in the diagrams and in the photo-index at the front of
            the book. I would consider then that these are the shapes
            that Montroll intended. "Nailing it on the first try" isn't
            the same thing in this case, when the target is (a bit) off.
        This might be his biggest venture into "wet folding
            required/advised" models-collected-in-a-book. Had I
            realized that I would not have been as disappointed. This
            isn't neither a good nor bad thing, just a mismatched
            expectations thing. Those mismatched expectations were what
            delayed my review of the book.

I would like to note, that with a couple of exceptions that I didn't
think were all that severe, this book continues Montroll's excellence
in diagramming and folding.

Here's hoping that more folks will design models using the dry
tensioning technique which works so well in both dry and wet folding,
as well as continuing to explore the closed back "space of models" and
models that have an even balance of paper usage.

-D'gou





From: "Michael J. Naughton" <mjnaught@CROCKER.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 09:08
Subject: Re: Assembling Modular Origami

Ken Kawamura wrote:
> It's 24 units, and just barely holds together.
> . . . .
> You can get the same shape with a lot less pain by . . .

Ah, but I thought pain was what Ross Cooper was looking for!

Mike "Thanks, Ken!" Naughton





From: Karen Reeds <reeds@OPENIX.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 09:14
Subject: lovely long messages from Lister

Edit the rest of us blowhards, but please don't restrict the length of
David Lister's messages--they are always worth reading, as the piece on
origami and the spiritual proves. (Get well quickly, David!)
Karen
reeds@openix.com





From: Scottie Lover <iluvscotties@MINDSPRING.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 10:32
Subject: Re: Origami Books

I save every reference I can find about origami books, and purchase as many
as I can afford.

In this regard, I would strongly suggest that everyone try to post customer
reviews on Amazon's site.
I have bought countless books (on all subjects) I never would have known
about were it not for Amazon's reviews and search features.  However, if
debating between several unknown books, I inevitably choose the one(s) with
positive feedback.

Although I certainly don't review the majority of books I've read, I do try
to spend a few minutes reviewing those I consider either outstanding or
unconscionably hideous (e.g., a technical book or cookbook rife with errors).

Just a thought -- since this would help sell good origami books, and help
people choose and purchase those best for them.





From: Jorma Oksanen <tenu@SCI.FI>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 10:36
Subject: Re: When to share origami?

On 19-Jan-00, Doug Philips (dwp@transarc.com) wrote:

>    Should the origami community be more active in spreading the word
>            and/or action of sharing origami into the criminal
>            justice system?

I don't know about the community, but I'm going to teach origami in
the local prison this spring.  Even if some members of origami-l would
like it, I have no intention to ask what the inmates have done, to
decide if they are worthy or not.  It's not my business to know.

Some people might think that I'm even worse than the inmates, as I get
paid for the teaching...

--
Jorma "origami for everyone" Oksanen   tenu@sci.fi

Weyland-Yutani - Building Better Worlds





From: Scott Cramer <scram@LANDMARKNET.NET>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 11:04
Subject: Re: When to share origami?

Jorma is concerned that:

>Some people might think that I'm even worse than the inmates, as I get
>paid for the teaching...

    I think that is a far better justification for teaching in a prison than
some of the reasons that have been offered. Aren't these people incarcerated
as punishment? By their actions, haven't they forfeited their pursuit of
happiness to a large degree? It sticks in my craw to think that Mr. Ng can
escape, temporarily, from the consequences of his behavior by engaging his
mind and hands in the gentle art of paperfolding.

    I do understand that most of the prison population have not offended
society to the extreme that Ng has, and I will concede that a certain amount
of rehabilitation is to be hoped for, and that origami has much to offer in
that department. But it offends me greatly to read the sanctimonious
justifications offered for easing the suffering of sociopathic monsters like
Ng.

Scott scram@landmarknet.net





From: Ronald Koh <ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 11:06
Subject: Ng: When to share origami?

Dorothy Engleman wrote:

 Just because a
> mass murderer does origami, does that make him gentle and caring?

I seem to be quite misunderstood here. I wrote that I saw a gentle and
caring SIDE to the man; this is quite different from stating that he IS
a gentle and caring man. And that view, which is entirely personal, was
based entirely on the way he folded the models he sent me. The folding
was precise, somewhat delicate even, and clearly folded with a gentle
touch and much care.

I am not in anyway trying to romanticize the man nor am I trying to
condone or find excuses for his actions. Far from it. Yes, I would
rather remember Ng as a man who is able to appreciate the wonders of
origami. That memory includes thoughts of what could have been, what
could have happened to turn him into such a monster, and whether there
is anything that can be done to prevent it happening again. To me,
remembering him for his crimes merely inspires revulsion and hate, and I
see no positive values in that.

Dorothy:

I understand your sentiments and share your pain, in a more realistic
way than you can imagine.

I have said my piece.  I shall say no more, and apologize to anyone I
have offended.

Ronald

> Back in June of 1999, Ronald Koh wrote:
>
> "When I examine Charles' origami, I see a gentle and caring side to the
> man. It seems painfully amazing that this same man has now been found
> guilty of the most heinous of crimes that man can commit against man. He
> remains answerable to society for his deeds, and to God. I would like to
> remember him as a man who is able to appreciate the wonders of origami
> and be able to fold the models, which are still with me, as well as the
> most practised origamists, within the harsh environment of Folsom
> Prison."





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 12:10
Subject: Re: subject lines?

Alan Shutko schrieb:
> A minor request... would it be possible for people continuing this
> thread to keep "Ng" in the subject line?  It slows things down
> considerably to have my software check every message body when
> filtering things.
Well... I put in (NO) every time I think it's Not Origami related. Set
your filter to that. Or just to tanjit@bboxbbs.ch :-).

Matthias





From: Anine Cleve <anine21@USA.NET>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 13:27
Subject: Bookhelp!

Hi!

At a Scandinavian online bookstore I found this book:
Beautiful Origami by Linda Seward
details: Sterling Pub. Co, US,1991,USA, Paperback

In the search for a cover I went to www.amazon.com , www.kimscrane.com and
www.origami-usa.org but none of them had the book, so any of you out there
know anything about this book? Thanks in advance!

Anine

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: Lynch Family <deenbob@ECENTRAL.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 14:05
Subject: Re: no fold origami

> I, myself have created red dingo in red dust; view from last jeep in convoy
> on dirt road; and puddle reflecting the Great Sandy Desert, toddler in
> sand-pit; all from a single sheet of muddy-orange paper.  I am afraid I
> haven't got around to diagramming all this yet, but you never know.   Now to
> the beach with my yellow and blue paper...  And how about designing
> tablecloths, sails, sheets, models of origami paper......

How 'bout Snowstorm on Everist and No Moon Tonight, Robin's Egg against
the Sky, Clouds, ... ;-)

Actually, this reminds me of a conversation a few years ago about
folding boulders!

Dee





From: Alan Shutko <ats@ACM.ORG>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 14:13
Subject: Re: subject lines?

Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH> writes:

> Well... I put in (NO) every time I think it's Not Origami related. Set
> your filter to that. Or just to tanjit@bboxbbs.ch :-).

I don't mind non-origami posts, I just want to avoid the serial killer
discussion.

--
Alan Shutko <ats@acm.org> - In a variety of flavors!
N=1.    Trivially true, since both you and the elevator only have one





From: Robby/Laura <morassi@ZEN.IT>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 14:26
Subject: Re: HTML code embedding

Sjaak,
At 21.06 17/1/2000 +0100, you wrote:

> Again and again I have sent messages
>to this and other lists begging people to shut off the blighted
>'HTML-feature' when they send mail to lists. Here's how for Netscape.

Here are more details on disabling the HTML feature in Netscape 4, Outlook
Express, and Eudora Pro:

NETSCAPE 4.0: Menu' EDIT-->PREFERENCES-->MAIL & GROUPS-->MESSAGES. Disable
the box "By default, send HTML messages". Press "MORE OPTIONS...." and
enable the box "Always convert the message into plain text". Press OK on
all the windows. If, when sending a message, the windows "HTML Mail
Question" pops up, select "Send in Plain Text only".

OUTLOOK EXPRESS: Menu' TOOLS-->OPTIONS-->SEND. Enable "Plain text" under
"Mail sending format" and "News sending format". Disable "Reply to messages
using the format in which they were sent".

EUDORA PRO: have a look at this website (which also explains why HTML is so
undesirable in e-mail messages !):

http://www.ping.be/houghi/nohtml/

Greetings,
Roberto





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 14:36
Subject: Re: (long) "Bringing O. to Life" WAS: Re: Strange Question.

I appreciate comments that are critical evaluations of his work and not the
usual "it's all great" fluff that I mostly hear about books on this list.
I agree that some of the models in Montroll's new book looked a bit wrong.
But I don't enjoy Origami for the Enthusiast and Animal Origami for the
Enthusiast as much as Carlos.  I think the models are too blocky looking,
not remotely natural.  His new books I think have greatly improved the look
of the model, they are more easily made to flow in natural looking ways.
There's even a crab model in one of the old books that looks like a polygon
with stick out bits.  I liked Bringing Origami to Life a good deal.  This
is because of models like his elephant that are so simple yet but are much
better for 3d molding than many other models that are much more difficult.
Even if many of the models could have looked better, especially the man on
the horse, the elegance with which he captured the animal is amazing.  It's
not that hard anyway to make the animals look more normal!  I think this
thread is much more interesting than Ng folds origami threads.  I hope this
thread continues for awhile.  Happy folding :)

David





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 14:38
Subject: Re: HTML code embedding

At 00:11 00/01/20 +0200, Robby/Laura wrote:
 > Here are more details on disabling the HTML feature in Netscape 4, Outlook
 > Express, and Eudora Pro:

 > http://www.ping.be/houghi/nohtml/

Updated URL: <http://www.houghi.org/>
----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: "Melissa D. Johnson" <johnsonm@ACU.EDU>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 14:49
Subject: Another Rose?

Recently, a student worker in the library where I work showed me how to
make a rose. I have looked at pictures of Kawasaki's rose and the one I
made looks similar, but there are some differences. The procedure she
showed me was not what the diagram looks like either although there are a
few similarities. I asked her if this rose had a name, and she said
no. Could this be another rose, or just a variation on Kawasaki's?

I don't have a picture of it, and am not very good at explaining the
steps. If you need a picture of it to tell, I can put one up.

Once I got the hang of it (and she showed me a few times), it is kind of
simple to make.

Melissa Dawn :)
http://MelissaDawn.Johnson.org/

************************************************************************
"When I get a little money, I buy books; and, if any is left, I buy food
and clothes."  --Desiderius Erasmus Roterodamus, Dutch humanist and
theologian, 1466-1536.





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 14:55
Subject: Re: Another Rose?

At 13:42 00/01/20 -0600, you wrote:
>Recently, a student worker in the library where I work showed me how to
>make a rose. I have looked at pictures of Kawasaki's rose and the one I
>made looks similar, but there are some differences. The procedure she
>showed me was not what the diagram looks like either although there are a
>few similarities. I asked her if this rose had a name, and she said
>no. Could this be another rose, or just a variation on Kawasaki's?
>
>I don't have a picture of it, and am not very good at explaining the
>steps. If you need a picture of it to tell, I can put one up.
>
>Once I got the hang of it (and she showed me a few times), it is kind of
>simple to make.

I suspect that it is Kawasaki's "old" rose (from Origami for the
Connoisseur). These were extremely popular with the teen girls (especially
Chinese ones here in Vancouver) last year, and many people seem to know how
to make them now. Typically, they make them very rigidly, without curling
out the petals. None of them, of course, have any idea where the rose came
from.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Dan Gries <dangries@MATH.OHIO-STATE.EDU>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 15:11
Subject: wet-fold and post-wetting

hello, i'm piping up again after a long time.  you know, i heard from a
friend that he knows an accountant who enjoys origami, and i thought it
might be interesting to discuss Accounting-and-Origami, but i decided
to leave that for another time.  instead i have a different topic:

i have often wondered how well it would work to fold a model dry then dunk
the whole thing in water and do some final shaping.  i get the feeling from
this list that this does not accomplish the same result as wet-folding.
i am curious to hear what the differences are.  i actually don't like the
idea of wet-folding, mostly because i enjoy the tactical sensation of
ordinary folding, plus i hate to have my fingers wet for a long time.  so
i was thinking about post-wetting as an alternative.

actually, i had a problem with post-wetting when i was a child, but my
parents decided it was a result of a troublesome youth, and after some
stress-reducing activities, there wer fewer incidents.  or wait, no, that
was something else.

but i would appreciate any comments on wet-folding.

-dan





From: Kevin Kinney <kkinney@MED.UNC.EDU>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 15:21
Subject: Re: wet-fold and post-wetting

Dunking?  A bit extreme, perhaps.  But I have sprayed a model with water
after folding, to encourage it to hold it's shape.

Kevin





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 15:26
Subject: Re: wet-fold and post-wetting

At 15:09 00/01/20 -0500, Dan Gries wrote:
 >i have often wondered how well it would work to fold a model dry then dunk
 >the whole thing in water and do some final shaping.  i get the feeling from
 >this list that this does not accomplish the same result as wet-folding.
 >i am curious to hear what the differences are.  i actually don't like the
 >idea of wet-folding, mostly because i enjoy the tactical sensation of
 >ordinary folding, plus i hate to have my fingers wet for a long time.  so
 >i was thinking about post-wetting as an alternative.

First of all, to "dunk the whole thing in water" is definitely over-wetting.
Use a spray mister, or wipe the paper with a damp cloth.

Your suggested technique (wetting near the end, not the dunking in water
part) would work for some models. Indeed, I like to do that for shaping
models that are folded from a box-pleated structure (like my new human
figures, to be unveiled at a local exhibition that will start next week).

The drawback of that technique is that you can't use some of the
normally-used wet-folding papers. Watercolour paper is one such paper that
does not work. It is too brittle to work when dry-folded, tending to crack
and tear at the crease lines. Wetting the paper prevents this problem. Other
papers, like elephant hide, will work with this technique, since they can be
easily folded wet or dry.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: DORIGAMI@AOL.COM
Date: 20 Jan 2000 15:30
Subject: Re: Origami On-Line Guide

In a message dated 1/13/00 5:24:22 AM, FoldingCA@WEBTV.NET writes:

<< http://www.empnet.com/woodmansee/origuide.htm >>

Dont know who compiled it.  Funny that it doesnt say where or who it is
from...But it is very interesting and I will save it in my file.... Am
interested in what you have to say about Ng. Did y ou correspondend with him
and how did he find you.  Was he able to get on the Origami-L.  Dorigami





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 15:32
Subject: (NO) Re: subject lines?

Alan Shutko schrieb:
> I don't mind non-origami posts, I just want to avoid the serial killer
> discussion.
Oh, you mean you don't want that bloody origami all over your screen ?
OK, if the thread isn't dead yet, I'll make sure to add Ng to the
subject line so you can kill all those posts.

Matthias, accomodating as usual





From: Scott Cramer <scram@LANDMARKNET.NET>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 15:38
Subject: Re: wet-fold and post-wetting

Dan is curious:

>i have often wondered how well it would work to fold a model dry then dunk
>the whole thing in water and do some final shaping.

    Dunking, no, but I have had good luck with complex models by steaming
them on a raised platform in a large pot of very hot water. A few minutes of
this dampens them sufficiently for shaping. I refold the parts that opened
up, shape the model to taste, and then dry quickly over a hot radiator or
other heat source.

    You may think steaming isn't such a great idea... a lot of people think
it's dim some.

Scott scram@landmarknet.net





From: Kevin Kinney <kkinney@MED.UNC.EDU>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 15:40
Subject: Re: wet-fold and post-wetting

> Your suggested technique (wetting near the end, not the dunking in water
> part) would work for some models. Indeed, I like to do that for shaping
> models that are folded from a box-pleated structure (like my new human
> figures, to be unveiled at a local exhibition that will start next week).

    Spot-on- the model that I was thinking of was a pleated bud vase where
the pleats wouldn't hold quite right.

    Will we get to see pics?

>
> The drawback of that technique is that you can't use some of the
> normally-used wet-folding papers. Watercolour paper is one such paper that
> does not work. It is too brittle to work when dry-folded, tending to crack
> and tear at the crease lines. Wetting the paper prevents this problem. Other
> papers, like elephant hide, will work with this technique, since they can be
> easily folded wet or dry.

    Yah, the vase was in fact from ordinary kami, so it could be folded dry.
The thing was such a pain, I never tried it again from better paper.  And
now, I've got the intersecting pleats method down, and cam make much better
vases...





From: Sjaak Adriaanse <S.Adriaanse@INTER.NL.NET>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 15:41
Subject: Re: HTML code embedding

>Here are more details on disabling the HTML feature in Netscape 4, Outlook
>Express, and Eudora Pro:

>Greetings,
>Roberto

Thanks! I will keep this message and spread it in the future!

Greetings,
Sjaak

Sjaak Adriaanse
---------------------------------------------------------------
Tekst & Uitleg





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 15:43
Subject: Re: wet-fold and post-wetting

At 15:37 00/01/20 -0500, Scott Cramer wrote:
 >    Dunking, no, but I have had good luck with complex models by steaming
 >them on a raised platform in a large pot of very hot water. A few minutes of
 >this dampens them sufficiently for shaping. I refold the parts that opened
 >up, shape the model to taste, and then dry quickly over a hot radiator or
 >other heat source.
 >
 >    You may think steaming isn't such a great idea... a lot of people think
 >it's dim some.

(Took me a moment to realize you meant "dim sum".)  8)

Anyway, another source of heat for drying paper is the oven...test your
paper first, but you should be able to bake your origami at temperatures up
to 400 degrees F for short periods without any problems.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 15:45
Subject: Re: no fold origami

Lynch Family schrieb:
> How 'bout Snowstorm on Everist and No Moon Tonight, Robin's Egg against
> the Sky, Clouds, ... ;-)
The first model I teach at my classes is usually the Polar Bear in a
Blizzard. You should see their faces :-).

Matthias





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 15:45
Subject: Re: wet-fold and post-wetting

Joseph Wu wrote:
> First of all, to "dunk the whole thing in water" is definitely over-wetting.
> Use a spray mister, or wipe the paper with a damp cloth.

Agreed. If you search way back in the archives you can even find a message by
Tom Hull about dunking models. Actually you can find a bunch more good stuff
too. Since the MIT search engine (my previous favorite) hasn't been updated in
a while, and if you haven't saved a copy of one the admin messages, you can
find the search engine at:
        http://www.rug.nl/cgi-bin/oigquery.sh

> The drawback of that technique is that you can't use some of the
> normally-used wet-folding papers. Watercolour paper is one such paper that
> does not work. It is too brittle to work when dry-folded, tending to crack
> and tear at the crease lines. Wetting the paper prevents this problem. Other
> papers, like elephant hide, will work with this technique, since they can be
> easily folded wet or dry.

Another "recent" technique is to moisten the paper only where you make each
fold. I put "recent" in quotes since I've only heard about this sub-genre of
wet folding recently.

Another tip is to know the folding sequence very well. If you have to stop to
read diagrams, the paper will probably dry to quickly on you. If you know the
folding sequence well you may also discover better/faster/more accurate ways
to fold the model, all of which will increase your chances of success.

The paper will feel and behave differently when wet. Don't expect great
results at first, expect instead to learn how to fold that kind of paper.
There are several web sites that have tips and info on wet folding, BOS/Nick
Robinson has one, I think either Joseph Wu or Tom Hull (or both) have some
info too.

Good luck, experiment, and have fun!
-D'gou





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 15:52
Subject: Re: wet-fold and post-wetting

At 15:39 00/01/20 -0500, Kevin Kinney wrote:
>     Will we get to see pics?

Yes...sometime next month, I'd think.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Bernie Cosell <bernie@FANTASYFARM.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 16:00
Subject: Re: HTML code embedding

On 20 Jan 00, at 0:11, Robby/Laura wrote:

> Sjaak,
> At 21.06 17/1/2000 +0100, you wrote:
>
> > Again and again I have sent messages
> >to this and other lists begging people to shut off the blighted
> >'HTML-feature' when they send mail to lists. Here's how for Netscape.
>
> Here are more details on disabling the HTML feature in Netscape 4, Outlook
> Express, and Eudora Pro:

There's an online reference for this *specific* problem:

http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/listowners/html-off.htm

[page title is "Hot to tunr OFF HTML or RTF in VArious E-mail software
programs]

  /Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
mailto:bernie@fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--





From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@AHAND.UNICAMP.BR>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 16:01
Subject: Re: wet-fold and post-wetting

>>From: Dan Gries <dangries@MATH.OHIO-STATE.EDU>

>>i have often wondered how well it would work to fold a model dry then dunk
>>the whole thing in water and do some final shaping.  i get the feeling from
You could only dunk extremely resilient paper like $ bills (see
Kirschenbaum's $ guitarrist).

>>ordinary folding, plus i hate to have my fingers wet for a long time.  so
>>i was thinking about post-wetting as an alternative.

Gee, I think I've coined a term: "post-wetting", at least I don't remember
hearing of that. I think those techniques have different aims:
- wet folding for heavy, thick paper: damping acts in two ways 1) it softens
fibers/sizing and avoids cracking creases 2) while drying, sizing and
fibers are reset, making creases permanent
- post-wetting for lighter paper like kami, where only item 2) above is
necessary.

Since I almost always use ordinary kami I use post-wetting a lot:
wetfolded kami is easily teared, or at least the color is chipped off
in creases. The latter problem does not happen in artistic papers (or in
duo kami BTW), where the color is usually part of the paper, not just
a thin layer of ink.

        Sincerely,
                Carlos
        furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





From: "Kennedy, Mark" <KennedyM@DNB.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 16:30
Subject: Folding Sunday Museum of Natural History

Folding Sunday
(Formerly Folding-Free-For-All)

Origami Sunday will be held this Sunday in Room 319 at the Museum of Natural
History. Near
ALice Grey's old office for the old geezers. We have this room for the rest
of the year.

Any OrigamiUSA members in or visiting the New York City area on the 4th
Sunday of each month are welcome to join our monthly folding meetings at the

American Museum of Natural History from 1:00 to 4:00 PM.

Please bring folding paper plus something to share. It's especially
appreciated if you
bring a model to teach, but if you're not comfortable teaching yet please
bring something else to contribute such as a model to show that you've been
enjoying folding, an origami book or newsletter others might find of
interest, or paper for the group. We will have a special "sharing table" set

aside for display of models to teach, models to show, books, publications,
and paper contributions.

These monthly meetings are a continuation of the tradition Lillian
Oppenheimer began over 40 years ago of encouraging paperfolders to get
together to teach each other and exchange ideas. OrigamiUSA is able to
provide a meeting space - the rest is up to those attending. When you arrive

at the museum please check at any information desk for the meeting room
number.

The folding sessions are similar to the informal folding at convention.





From: DORIGAMI@AOL.COM
Date: 20 Jan 2000 16:30
Subject: Re: Origami and Spirituality from Dorigami

In a message dated 1/19/00 10:43:23 AM, leongccr@SINGNET.COM.SG writes:

<< In =
the beginning (before the Universe was created), there was only a blank
sheet of paper .....
 >>

What are we humans but one pattern with many different designs on it  Just
like the blank piece  of paper with many different folded designs on it . We
have to unfold it to see how it was made. And so the human being is folded
layer upon layer and in order to know ourselves or others well, we need to
unfold multitudes of layers to discover the why's.





From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@AHAND.UNICAMP.BR>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 16:38
Subject: Re: (long) "Bringing O. to Life" WAS: Re: Strange Question.

>>From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>

>>I appreciate comments that are critical evaluations of his work and not the
>>usual "it's all great" fluff that I mostly hear about books on this list.
Hint, hint...

>>Enthusiast as much as Carlos.  I think the models are too blocky looking,
>>not remotely natural.  His new books I think have greatly improved the look
>>of the model, they are more easily made to flow in natural looking ways.
Well, I concede models in OftE and AOftE (his very first books) are
flatter than later works (after OS's "3D-mania"). But it's much easier
making a "good-proportioned" model look soft and 3D than fixing proportions
of models in BOtL :)

>>There's even a crab model in one of the old books that looks like a polygon
>>with stick out bits.  I liked Bringing Origami to Life a good deal.  This
Give the man a break :) the one in AOftE's his first published crab,
absolutely groundbreaking, and he's not published ordinary crabs ever
since (I think the fiddler crab and blue crab in OSL are RJLang's)... Also,
the photo in the cover does not make the model justice.

        Sincerely,
                Carlos
        furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti

P.S. I'm not sure whether Yoshizawa's famous crab-from-uncut-square-nth-
blintzed-bird-base predates Montroll's, but the latter's custom base
is much more paper-savvy.
P.P.S. I'm leaving for a few days so _I_ won't keep this thread up, David...





From: Rosalinda Sanchez <RRosalinda@AOL.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 17:26
Subject: Spirals II Sea Shell

I've been trying to figure out the shell on page 51 of Spirals II but haven't
had much luck.  A lot of steps aren't shown so there is mostly just a crease
pattern to go on.  I've succeeded in getting the top half of the creases done
but am not sure whether I ever got the bottom half creases shown in step 4
put in correctly.  To make matters worse there is nothing shown in the crease
pattern to distinguish between mountain and valley folds.

Anyone ever had any luck at completing this shell?

Rosa





From: Rosalinda Sanchez <RRosalinda@AOL.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 17:30
Subject: Francis Ow's Modular Book

I'm looking to buy a copy of Francis Ow's long time out of print publication
on Modular Origami.  Anyone have a copy that they would like to sell or
trade???

Rosa





From: Pete <pmiller_vball@BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 17:47
Subject: Re: Bookhelp!

I looked up the book Beautiful Origami and found it by Sterling Pub but it
is shown with the following information:

Author: Ayture-Scheele, Zubal
Publishing Date: 12/1990 | Publisher: Sterling Publishing Company,
Incorporated

You can look it up using http://www.Dealpilot.com, http://www.bibliofind.com
or
http://www.bookfinder.com
----- Original Message -----
From: Anine Cleve <anine21@USA.NET>
To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2000 2:26 PM
Subject: Bookhelp!

Hi!

At a Scandinavian online bookstore I found this book:
Beautiful Origami by Linda Seward
details: Sterling Pub. Co, US,1991,USA, Paperback

In the search for a cover I went to www.amazon.com , www.kimscrane.com and
www.origami-usa.org but none of them had the book, so any of you out there
know anything about this book? Thanks in advance!

Anine

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: Dr Stephen O'Hanlon <fishgoth@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 17:51
Subject: Re: Hospital

Sorry to hear youve been unwell, David.
I hope it was nothing serious, and I hope you got a bed, or at least a nice
trolly in the corridor given the 'flu epidemic!

Get well soon!

Dr Stephen O'Hanlon

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Michael Janssen-Gibson <mig@ISD.CANBERRA.EDU.AU>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 18:37
Subject: Re: wet-fold and post-wetting

On Thu, 20 Jan 2000, Doug Philips wrote:

> Another "recent" technique is to moisten the paper only where you make each
> fold. I put "recent" in quotes since I've only heard about this sub-genre of
> wet folding recently.

I have used this technique when folding large sheets of paper (Canson, for
example) into Fuse masks. First I wet the crease pattern of the base on
both sides of the paper (fish-base, or bird-base), folded the base, and
then wet the rest of the paper in this more compact form. I found that it
was slightly easier to keep the paper "square" whilst folding the initial
base.

> Don't expect great results at first, expect instead to learn how to fold
that kind of paper.

An excellent tip - this came as quite a surprise to me when I first
started experimenting with different types of paper. Who would have
thought that reversing a fold, a manouvere so simple it is accomplished
without thought in regular paper, can be a slow 15 minute
poking-the-crease-through-the-back-of-a-model-with-a-toothpick mindbender
with laminated foil? :-}

regards
Michael





From: Kenny1414@AOL.COM
Date: 20 Jan 2000 18:37
Subject: Re: wet-fold and post-wetting

In a message dated 1/20/2000 3:43:48 PM Eastern Standard Time,
josephwu@ULTRANET.CA writes:

> Anyway, another source of heat for drying paper is the oven...test your
>  paper first, but you should be able to bake your origami at temperatures up
>  to 400 degrees F for short periods without any problems.

Do be careful. I am embarassed to admit I once set fire to
the company microwave, trying to pop corn in a paper bag.
It might have been because I had reused the bag, but still...

Kenneth M. Kawamura  ( kenny1414@aol.com )





From: Dave Stephenson <EruditusD@AOL.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 18:46
Subject: Re: Bookhelp! (Long, rambling and incorrect, Im going to sleep now)

I have the very book on myself behind me, though to be honest its not really
a book I'd recommend too strongly. For just a little more money I could
recommend a dozen books with a similar subject matter that are far superior,
in fact for the same money try P.D.Tuyen's Classic origami. Tuyen's book has
probably the most easy anatomically correct origami spider in existence...
the only real let down with the book is the squirrel :(

Anyway onto Beautiful Origami, on the plus side the photo's are nice, the
diagrams are very easy to follow and the whole books in colour. There's also
a nice squirrel model in here (Take note there are few Squirrel models I
don't like). There are very few books on the market where you can memorise
all of the models in one sitting... unfortunately this is one of them.

On the negative side Zulal is a bit too fond of scissors for my liking and
most of the models now seem a bit dated by today's standards. The models that
have stood the test of time do seem familiar somehow...

Contents:
Pigeon:
Raven:
Bat:
Owl:                Stick on eyes
Flying Stork:
standing Stork:
Dove:               Try it with napkins.

Sea Lion
Whale
Shark
Ray

Turtle
Butterfly
DragonFly
Scorpion
Grasshopper:        2 legs. 2 antenna and she still uses bloody scissors!!!.
Amaryllis:
Magnolia:
Chrysanthemum:

Giraffe                     Lets count the legs... 1,2,3...
Crocodile:                  Chop Chop.
Snake:                      Ahem
Stag:                       3 Legs, one Antler.
Lion            ______\     Try and tell these two apart without being told
Lioness                       /     in advance what they are.

Unicorn:                    Horse in accident with pair of scissors
Pegasus:                    Not too bad this one (very easy)
Dinosaur:                   Apososaurus in slippers
Witch:                      See Creative Origami by K.Kasahara

Squirrel:                   The world needs more squirrels.     (10/10)
Kangaroo (and Baby):        Some novelty value here but it means make one
                    kangaroo, then make a smaller one.
Peacock with tail folded:   See  what happens to transform to second form.
Peacock with tail unfolded: Step 2. Cut off right wing.... Noooooooo!!!!

In short theres much better on the market, post to say what type of origami
you prefer and Im sure the list would be more than happy to suggest titles.
Take note no matter what your preferences are I can guarantee someone will
recommend origami fantasy and super complex origami... which I can't complain
about, I  followed their recommendations and ive never regretted it, though
given the choice I still prefer origami sea life.

Damn it I've just noticed annie Requested info on a book by Linda Seward well
Im posting this anyway...

C'yal
Dave

> I looked up the book Beautiful Origami and found it by Sterling Pub but it
>  is shown with the following information:
>
>  Author: Ayture-Scheele, Zubal
>  Publishing Date: 12/1990 | Publisher: Sterling Publishing Company,
>  Incorporated
>
>  You can look it up using http://www.Dealpilot.com,
http://www.bibliofind.com
>  or
>  http://www.bookfinder.com
>  ----- Original Message -----

>
>  Hi!
>
>  At a Scandinavian online bookstore I found this book:
>  Beautiful Origami by Linda Seward
>  details: Sterling Pub. Co, US,1991,USA, Paperback
>
>  In the search for a cover I went to www.amazon.com , www.kimscrane.com and
>  www.origami-usa.org but none of them had the book, so any of you out there
>  know anything about this book? Thanks in advance!
>
>  Anine





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 19:59
Subject: Re: wet-fold and post-wetting

Hi Dan!  Some people like to dry fold a model, spray it and then nuke it.
I've tried that several times but I haven't tried dunk and mold technique.
Tell me how it turns out.

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 19:59
Subject: Re: wet-fold and post-wetting

Steaming, wow!  That's the trick I've been looking for.  When wetfolding
xerox paper I've noticed that there is this faint level of moisture that
makes it easier to manipulate than any other paper I've dryfolded.  But the
trouble is that it quickly dries out.  I must try this steaming, that might
be what I'm looking for.  Thanks Scott!

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 19:59
Subject: Re: (long) "Bringing O. to Life" WAS: Re: Strange Question.

>P.P.S. I'm leaving for a few days so _I_ won't keep this thread up, David...

That's alright Carlos I think we've both said our share, but I'm sure
there's people out there that have something to say.  Hint, hint  What's
with lurkers anyway?

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 19:59
Subject: Re: Spirals II Sea Shell

I haven't folded it but isn't step 4 the result of recursively doing steps
1-3 until you're too tired to do it anymore?  If it's not, then what is it?
This probably didn't help but I hope you get it Rosa!

David





From: Ronald Koh <ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 22:12
Subject: [NO]Lurkers

Blessed is he who has nothing to say and can't be persuaded to say it.

Ron

david whitbeck wrote:

 but I'm sure there's people out there that have something to say.
Hint, hint  What's
> with lurkers anyway?





From: Shawn Allen <gpovey@CABLEREGINA.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 22:31
Subject: Re: Strange Question.

I started when I was ten (water bomb, of course) and continued on and
off for the next twenty-odd years.  I have tried many different art
forms but lack of funds for supplies has forced me into retirement in
those areas.  Origami has stayed a favorite all this time because no
matter how broke I was, I could always find paper and a few books at the
local library.  The internet has been a great resource as I am now able
to try all these great new designs as well as be encouraged that there
is other people out there who like to "wreck a perfectly good piece of
paper."  Whoever had the idea for this list, thank you!!  One month ago
(December 99)  I finally met another adult who loves origami so things
are looking up. My favorites (right now) are a turtle from an Italian
web site, When pigs grow wings and fly by Mr. Wu, and that wonderful
hacky-sack ball (great for phys ed class with a paper bat!)

Shawn
has anyone heard of Regina, Saskatchewan?





From: Jonathan Baxter <jbax@MINDSPRING.COM>
Date: 20 Jan 2000 23:32
Subject: South East Origami home page.

Dear Friends,

    MayI be so presumptuous to ask you to look over the Southeastorigami.home.mi
     ndspring.com homepage which has been updated to bring you the latest
     information  on the 4th Southeastern origami festival.  We are committed
     to upgrading  at least once a mon

Opportunities exist for all Origami L contributors  to realise their own
     creative endevours  with poignant exhibition contributions and we
     encourage  you to submit ideas or proposals that will enrich the festival ,

Please forward to me privately your suggestions at jbax@mindspring.com

My appreciation in advance,

Jonathan Baxter,
Artistic Director
Southeastern Origami Festival

`    c-
