




From: "Chamberlain, Clare" <Clare.Chamberlain@HEALTH.WA.GOV.AU>
Date: 02 Nov 1999 23:35
Subject: Library security system

Alright - the pressure's too much!  I confess to having a library book in my
permanent collection (cross-stich, mind, not origami)......but let me tell
you the whole story before you judge me and forever lock me within a modular
dodecahedron  or in the stomach of a giant folded plodosaur.......

A few months ago, I borrowed a cross-stich book.  As some of you may be
aware, some cross- stich projects can take many months, so I brought the
book to work to (For those of you with sensitive natures, skip the rest of
this ..) PHOTOCOPY a pattern.  Foolishly, I left the book at work and it
disappeared.

I explained this to the kind librarian, who then charged me for the book (a
ridiculously low amount. I also brought in a number of other books to
replace the lost one.

Some weeks later the book reappeared on my desk with no explanation, so I
duly took it back to the library.  Oh - if you wish to return it you have to
pay $10 handling fee, and we can't return the cost price!  Since I had
already more than replaced the book ,and felt that I had by then truly paid
for a (somewhat mediocre) book, I took it back home with me.

Before you suggest I just slip it back on the shelf when next in the library
(which I did propose to the librarian) the computer would have it noted
against my name when someone tried to take it out!

There - I feel better now.  Apart from that, I don't even have a speeding
ticket :-)

Anne Onymous





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 02 Nov 1999 23:54
Subject: Re: Library security system

A ten dollar handling fee!  I would like a librarian on the list to make
sense of this stupidity!  I also would like to know if it's just
coincidence that there are so many librarians on this list, it spooks me
out.

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 00:29
Subject: Re: NO - ILL & Disappearing Books (long)

For a penalty how about something extreme?  At UCD plagiarism can get you
expelled as quick as you can bat an eye, that's such a dangerous line that
few people will take it because it's easy for professors to catch you.  If
you imposed a penalty that extreme for damaged and stolen books maybe it
would help..  I don't know, I guess I always see people as not being evil
to one of my most beloved of objects: the book.  Abusing public libraries
is like a messy public restroom: it makes little sense, it's revolting and
it feels like a slap in the face.  So humpf!!

David





From: Dor Jeong <DJeong1066@AOL.COM>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 00:37
Subject: Re: [NO] Library Suggestions

No mail ... will not be picking up mail until 11/20.
thank you.





From: Dorothy Engleman <FoldingCA@WEBTV.NET>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 00:43
Subject: Re: Trading Off

Dave Mitchell wrote:

"Origami seems to be in danger of becoming two entirely unrelated
crafts/arts which just both happen to involve folding paper."

You've intrigued me, Dave.  Please explain the danger afoot!

Dorothy





From: Kellydunn2@AOL.COM
Date: 03 Nov 1999 02:49
Subject: Re: Best/Most complicated model

In a message dated 11/2/99 10:07:30 AM, DLister891@AOL.COM writes:

<< But I question whether complication equates with excellence. Some of the
simplest models like Takahama's Yacht and Yoshizawa's Butterfly, to my mind
have an excellence that equals that of any other folds, however complex. And
as for the North Face of the Eiger of paperfolding, I suggest that folding
the Classic Crane with perfection is as stern a challencnge as can face any
paperfolder. >>

I agree, Yoshizawa's Butterfly is one of my favorite folds, because of it's
simplicity. It makes children smile, and I can see no higher excellence than
that. By folding a handful of them, an instant comfort that is a great gift,
for me to fold and then a double gift when handed to someone nearby. And, the
Yoshizawa's butterfly never looks the same, just like with real butterflies,
with different papers the pattern on the wings changes. So, it is always fun
to fold to see what the butterfly will look like on a new piece of paper.
Kelly





From: Penny Groom <penny.groom@BTINTERNET.COM>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 02:53
Subject: Generation Game.......UK only

Martin asked me to pass this on for UK members to see.
-----------------------------------------------------

NOTE FOR THE DIARY

Pete Ford and I are on JIM DAVIDSONS " GENERATION GAME" again, screened
on Saturday 27 November BBC1 Evening 6.15-7.15pm.

We are the 3rd game in the show and I can promise a bit of a spectacle
with Mr Blobby getting involved in the proceedings.  We had a fun few
hours fitting him out with an Origami Hat and Boot.

Can you let other Origami Contacts know vis Origami L etc.

Regards

Martin Wall

Penny Groom

Membership Secretary, British Origami Society
BOS Homepage
http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/

please visit the Hunger Site at http://www.thehungersite.com/
clicking on this site once daily donates food at no cost to you to the
hungry around the world.

Make it your resolution for the millennium to do it every day.





From: Kellydunn2@AOL.COM
Date: 03 Nov 1999 03:04
Subject: Re: Best/Most complicated model

In a message dated 11/2/99 6:13:36 PM, dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU writes:

<< What if Origami
is more of an art form? >>

It upsets me often to find origami books in the "craft" section of stores. It
belongs in mathematics long before it should be in "crafts." And, as for art,
the only art that can be diagrammed in a language, so the it can be
communicated to another. This is what fascinates me so much about it. I think
it's sculpture, and is an art that is not only about form, but about
communication and visual language between people.
Kelly





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 03:49
Subject: Re: Trading Off

I just want to say that by not replying to my email asking what's going on
is in a way admitting that you yourself don't understand this thread.  Who
am I talking to?  Well anybody that hasn't replied, which is everybody.
Somebody explain to me this huge wollop of threads it's meandered it's way
out of coherent meaning!!!!!!

David





From: Dave Mitchell <davemitchell@MIZUSHOBAI.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 05:44
Subject: Trading Off

Ronald Koh wrote:

>I think we look at the same piece of paper differently, have a host of
>different preferences and tend to produce different stuff. And there is
>really no need for comparison or concern, as I think this is good for
>origami on the whole.

I've enjoyed our discussion and learned from it. Thanks!

I think you're right that whether any one individual finds it easier to
create simple or complicated paperfolds is a matter of mindset as much as
technique. Essentially what I've been doing is to try to promote the
exploratory rather
than the engineering approach to origami design since I feel that the
engineering approach has been overstressed and overpraised in recent times.
It's just a question of balancing the scales ....

I fully accept that both approaches are valid creative methods and both may
occasionally lead to wonderfully elegant designs.

Vive la difference?

Dave Mitchell





From: Pamela Dailey <pdailey@IBM.NET>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 09:57
Subject: Re: creating

Oh I like this!
Fauxrigami....so funny.

Pamela

Scott Cramer wrote:

> Matthias offered:
>
> >Uhmm... if it's not real origami, is it Unreal origami then?
>
>     How about Fauxrigami?
>
> Scott scram@landmarknet.net





From: Ronald Koh <ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 10:18
Subject: Re: Best/Most complicated model

Kellydunn2@AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> It upsets me often to find origami books in the "craft" section of stores.

That's not too bad. In Singapore, these books are slotted in the
'Women's Interest' section in perpetually all book stores except
Borders. :o(





From: Ronald Koh <ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 10:21
Subject: Re: Trading Off

Dave Mitchell wrote:
>
> Vive la difference?

Agreed!

David Whitbeck wrote:

Could somebody explain to me what exactly has happened and the results
over the last several days.

I just want to say that by not replying to my email asking what's going
on is in a way admitting that you yourself don't understand this thread.

Don't know what you're writing about, David. We old geezers have
terribly short
memories. Who's Joseph Wu? :o)





From: Kenny1414@AOL.COM
Date: 03 Nov 1999 10:33
Subject: [NO] Re: unreal!

Is that your stock answer to everything?  :-)

Aloha,
Kenneth Kawamura

In a message dated 11/2/1999 8:01:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
EruditusD@AOL.COM writes:

> Why not cut out the middle man here and chain the thieves to the shelves,
>  save time in the longrun...
>
>  Dave-S
>
>  > Chaining books to shelves so they won't get stolen is anything but new -





From: Florence Temko <Ftemko@AOL.COM>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 10:55
Subject: NO Bookstore shelving

Kelly Dunn objected to origami books being shelved in the Crafts section. Any
alternative opinions? I find most of them in the Children's section. Best
from Florence.





From: James Storrs <italic@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 10:55
Subject: NO  craft designation

> > It upsets me often to find origami books in the "craft" section of
stores.
==========
I'm just pleased when a store carries origami titles; the greater variety of
titles and authors the better.  And, like it or not, the crafts section is
the logical location because that's where the majority of customers will
look first.  I suppose some people want them in the fine arts section, as an
ego thing, but someone learning the basics of folding, bases and so forth,
is hardly practicing an art form at that point.
   Oops- am I skirting the art vs. craft controversy?  Calligraphers spend
much more time worrying about that than they do lettering.





From: Ronald Koh <ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 11:05
Subject: New models

Okay, people - crunch time coming up.

I'm not sure if Mathias Gutfeldt's recent announcement was missed, my
origami is
not worth viewing or commenting upon, or you're well and truely sick of
the nuisance I have been in recent times. On the very slim possibility
that it is not due to the latter two reasons, I shall immodestly repeat
the announcement:

Mathias has very graciously taken the trouble to host some new photos of
my origami on his webpage. These include a couple of deer, a greyhound,
a rocking horse and a mutt in a rather inelegant position. Mathias' URL
is http://beam.to/origami. Do the both of us a big favour by dropping in
on the webpage, take a peek, and drop Mathias a line or two. Good, bad,
ugly - anything will do! Just write something! The poor guy has been
hanging around all this time waiting for business to come by, and all he
has had since the announcement is a wall of silence.

"What did I do wrong?", he has been asking. :o(.

It's not you, Mathias. It's that mutt - he's chasing customers away, I
tell you.

One of my Singaporean friends, Albert Sng, has also resurrected the
pages on my origami which were previously hosted by the Shumakovs on
Oriland. The URL is
http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Palace/3457/index.htm. In case
this is old hat to you, I have added the diagrams for the rocking horse
on this webpage.

Okay, I'm done with the commercial!

Ron Koh





From: Chris Hundley <chris@PREMIEREPAGES.COM>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 11:21
Subject: Re: New models

I need a diagram for the pooping dog!! Any plans to make one?

Chris

Ronald Koh wrote:

> Okay, people - crunch time coming up.
>
> I'm not sure if Mathias Gutfeldt's recent announcement was missed, my
> origami is
> not worth viewing or commenting upon, or you're well and truely sick of
> the nuisance I have been in recent times. On the very slim possibility
> that it is not due to the latter two reasons, I shall immodestly repeat
> the announcement:
>
> Mathias has very graciously taken the trouble to host some new photos of
> my origami on his webpage. These include a couple of deer, a greyhound,
> a rocking horse and a mutt in a rather inelegant position. Mathias' URL
> is http://beam.to/origami. Do the both of us a big favour by dropping in
> on the webpage, take a peek, and drop Mathias a line or two. Good, bad,
> ugly - anything will do! Just write something! The poor guy has been
> hanging around all this time waiting for business to come by, and all he
> has had since the announcement is a wall of silence.
>
> "What did I do wrong?", he has been asking. :o(.
>
> It's not you, Mathias. It's that mutt - he's chasing customers away, I
> tell you.
>
> One of my Singaporean friends, Albert Sng, has also resurrected the
> pages on my origami which were previously hosted by the Shumakovs on
> Oriland. The URL is
> http://www.geocities.com/EnchantedForest/Palace/3457/index.htm. In case
> this is old hat to you, I have added the diagrams for the rocking horse
> on this webpage.
>
> Okay, I'm done with the commercial!
>
> Ron Koh





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 12:22
Subject: Re: Generation Game.......UK only

Penny Groom <penny.groom@BTINTERNET.COM> sez

>I can promise a bit of a spectacle
>with Mr Blobby getting involved in the proceedings.

Shame you didn't cut his fat throat ;(

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@purplepeople.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/





From: Kellydunn2@AOL.COM
Date: 03 Nov 1999 12:49
Subject: Re: Best/Most complicated model

In a message dated 11/3/99 3:19:08 PM, ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG writes:

<< That's not too bad. In Singapore, these books are slotted in the
'Women's Interest' section in perpetually all book stores except
Borders. :o( >>

Oh, that is so sad, but understandable since origami was originally a
tradition passed drown from mother to daughter, possibly like quilting in the
US. But, the quilt books are in the craft section too. When actually, they
are responsible for saving many lives in the US, hanging outside as maps to
safety for people escaping slavery. This makes me sad to when they belong in
history.

Aren't most of the origami books published now by male folders? The
traditional books that I am working on now are, except for one by Tomoko
Fuse. I know that mathematics and spatial reasoning is seen as mostly being a
male characteristic in psychology (language, a female characteristic), but I
think these books not only need to be moved, but rewritten.
It interests me that origami now seems mostly male. You have brought up
something very interesting to me. Are the books you are seeing in the
"women's interest" section written by men or women?
Best wishes,
Kelly





From: P Bailey <pbailey@OPENCOMINC.COM>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 13:50
Subject: Re: New models

Ronald Koh wrote:

> anything will do! Just write something! The poor guy has been
> hanging around all this time waiting for business to come by, and all he
> has had since the announcement is a wall of silence.

I don't think you need to worry about it I for one always go and look
when new diagrams are announced on the list serve.  I am also as bad as
every one else on the net about leaving any comments about what I see
and or download and then mangle.  The only time I ever hear much in the
way of feed back is if my diagrams have a typo or a flaw that makes them
especially difficult to fold, so if you are not hearing any one gripe
then your diagrams are probably quite good (which I know that they are I
looked [and mangled])so I would be too concerned.  If you really want to
know if the site is being visited put in a counter.

Thanks for all of the lovely diagrams!

Perry

--
"Each time he shifted gears he did it as if the Moment of Truth
had arrived in a bullfight"
H. Allen Smith "The Pig in the Barber Shop"

http://www.afgsoft.com/perry/           <--Website w/ diagrams!
Icq 23622644





From: "James M. Sakoda" <James_Sakoda@BROWN.EDU>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 16:32
Subject: Re: Rectangular Boxes

Folding of the rectangular weaver shuttle box can be found in my Modern
Origami, but it is simple enough to describe in writing.  1. Locate the
ends of the middle line running the long side of the paper and then fold
the long sides to the middle.

2.  Unfold the folded sides and find the end points of the middle of the
sheet running the short way and fold the ends to this line.
3. Fold in the four corners  with  45 degree angles. The folded edges of
the bend run the long way along crease lines.  The raw edges run parallel
to the raw edges of the short end of the paper and leave a narrow strip.

4.  Fold over the narrow strips to cover the folded corners.

5.  Open out the sides of the box and allow the sides to stand upright.





From: Deg Farrelly <DEG.FARRELLY@ASU.EDU>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 17:05
Subject: NO:  $10 Handling fee

Dave Whitbeck wrote:

<<A ten dollar handling fee!  I would like a librarian on the list to make
sense of this stupidity!  I also would like to know if it's just
coincidence that there are so many librarians on this list, it spooks me
out.>>

Many factors apply here.  Primarily, however, there are the staff costs
related to:  1) updating or deleting the record from the library catalog and
or shelf list, 2) ordering a new copy or an alternative title, 3) processing
the replacement copy or alternative title - including labels, stamping,
plastic book jacket, book pocket, etc.

In the case of an alternative title, there is also the expense of generating
a new library catalog record, which, even with copy cataloging, is not
inexpensive.  We calculate that catalog records range in cost from $9.50 to
$25.00 *per title*

Why are you spooked by the number of librarians on the list?  Does the
number of mathematicians also spook you?  What about Computer engineers?
Lawyers?  Mothers?

deg farrelly
Media Librarian / Liaison to Women's Studies / Document Delivery Program
Manager
Arizona State University West





From: Sebastian Marius Kirsch <skirsch@T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 17:28
Subject: Re: Kawahata-Yoda

On Fri, Oct 29, 1999 at 09:02:13AM +0200, Katharina Grif wrote:
> Tank you for url for the web site with wonderful Yoda model. Do you
> know if it diagrammed and when yes, then where?

I got the diagrams from a BOS convention book for the spring convention
1998 in Birmingham.

--
Yours, Sebastian <skirsch@t-online.de>

*** Dieses Schreiben wurde mit Hilfe einer Datenverarbeitungsanlage ***
*** erstellt und bedarf keiner Unterschrift.                        ***





From: collin weber <coljwebwhs@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 17:49
Subject: Convention annuals and newsletters

Does anyone out there have any convention annuals or newsletters with
interesting diagrams that they wouldn't mind parting with for a while.  I am
willing to pay.  Or could you give me a place where it is easy to purchase
these on the web.

Thanks
Collin

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: collin weber <coljwebwhs@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 17:53
Subject: cockatoo

Does any one have suggetions on how to make a cockatoo?  I've been trying to
create one for a while now with no success.  I know Ronald Koh has one.  Any
ides on a starting base or a good way to get the crest on top of its head?

Thanks
Collin

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Dave Stephenson <EruditusD@AOL.COM>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 18:14
Subject: Re: Library security systems

>    Having been a librarian in another life, the first thing I do when I
>  visit a library for the first time is figure out their system.   I don't
>  purloin books (or anything else); it's just a challenge.
>  James

My local library has an extremely cunning system to stop the liberation of
books from the shelves,  instead of putting the books in alphabetical order
they insert them in a manner that seems entirely at random thus ensuring no
one can find the books they want to steal ... sometimes they even completely
ignore the dewy system just to ensure the books aren't stolen; )

Dave-S





From: Dave Stephenson <EruditusD@AOL.COM>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 18:20
Subject: Re: Library security systems

> Personally, I was more offended by the "Holy Roller" censor group at USF
>  that decided to go through the entire photography section, and remove
>  with a razor any photograph that contained anything they deemed lewd or
>  immoral.  And came back every once in a while to gut new books.  At
>  least when a thief steals a book, SOMEbody is appreciating it!
>
>  Javier

I feel the same about this, perhaps the solution is to find the holy rollers
and remove with a razor anything we find offensive about them :)> <)

Dave-(Sorry Im in a bloodthirsty mood tonight ;)-S





From: Dave Stephenson <EruditusD@AOL.COM>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 18:30
Subject: Re: [NO] Re: unreal!

Oh no it's not my answer to everything, I mean say for example they mutilate
the leather cover of a nice book, Im sure we can think of a nice alternative
to patch it up with...

Dave-(9 out of 10 grimoires preferred it)-S

> Is that your stock answer to everything?  :-)
>
>  Aloha,
>  Kenneth Kawamura
>
>
>  In a message dated 11/2/1999 8:01:47 PM Eastern Standard Time,
>  EruditusD@AOL.COM writes:
>
>  > Why not cut out the middle man here and chain the thieves to the shelves,
>  >  save time in the longrun...
>  >
>  >  Dave-S
>  >
>  >  > Chaining books to shelves so they won't get stolen is anything but
new -





From: Papa Joe <papajoe@CHORUS.NET>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 19:45
Subject: Oiigami chat

For those of you looking for a origami chat site.
I just found this link while surfing.
Don't know anything about the site.
Just passing on info.

http://www2.links2go.com/more/users.aol.com/valerivann/index.html

Joe





From: "Chamberlain, Clare" <Clare.Chamberlain@HEALTH.WA.GOV.AU>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 20:59
Subject: NO Bookstore shelving

The easy solution as to where origami books should be shelved in bookshops
is not women's', kids, maths or crafts, but in their very own ORIGAMI
section.  Surely origami is so important in the scheme of things to deserve
its own category - or even its own stores - yes that's it.  World domination
by origami........select the president by how many Lang's insects s/he can
fold.  Ensure all currency is paper.  Cut all paper to A4 and square only -
in fact pulp all the world's trees and make origami paper.............

(At this point, Clare's doctors took her away to a padded cell....)





From: James Storrs <italic@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 21:03
Subject: NO  The secret is out!

Now you've gone and done it.  Others that aren't already, will be doing the
same thing.
   Our library's tactics vary somewhat.  Books which are returned sit in the
shelving areas for months, and new titles are held up in the processing area
until they are so old no one remembers they were ever published.

> My local library has an extremely cunning system to stop the liberation of
> books from the shelves,  instead of putting the books in alphabetical
order
> they insert them in a manner that seems entirely at random thus ensuring
no
> one can find the books they want to steal ... sometimes they even
completely
> ignore the dewy system just to ensure the books aren't stolen; )





From: Ho <gmjkho@PRIMUS.COM.AU>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 22:23
Subject: Paper-cutter & best model

Paper cutter ---

I used a PRESTO letter opener which got a built-in blade.  It is handy
enough to put in the pocket.  During a seven  hours flight to HK I found the
cure to the boredom of waiting.  I used the waiting time productively to cut
and fold.  The reward was having all the components ready for Tom Hull's
attractive Pentagon Hexagon zig-zag Unit.

Best model ---

The 'best' is very subjective. I think this model has to be simple enough to
fold and graceful enough to attract many people.  Visual attraction followed
by the desire to fold and the pleasure to share. e,g, for
beginners ---------------- John Smith's --- Flapping Bird --forgiving fold
experienced folders --- Thoki Yenn's --- DNA

Sincerely

George Ho
****************************************************
Origami & Mental Health Therapy
http://go.to/origami

back-up email :   george_ho@yawmail.com





From: Giovanni M S Greco <GGreco@SOFT.COM.BR>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 22:25
Subject: Estou viajando !

I will be out of the office starting  04/11/99 and will not return until
06/11/99.

Estarei fora  servio at o dia 06/11. Responderei sua mensagem quando
retornar.

Para assuntos urgentes, favor contactar o Fernando Magalhes
(fmagalhaes@soft.com.br)

Obrigado.





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 22:48
Subject: Re: NO:  $10 Handling fee

Hi Deg!  Thanks for the reply.  To answer your question, it seems that
there are more librarians than any other profession on this list.  Of
course it's easy to blow that up and hard to see what really is the
statistics.  I don't see how mathematicians or ce's could spook me I'm
surrounded by them and students hoping to become them.  Lawyers always
spook me, especially in great numbers.  And I'm totally not scared by
mothers, but should I be?  They do seem aweful scarry now that I think of
it

David





From: Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@PIPELINE.COM>
Date: 03 Nov 1999 23:58
Subject: Re: Convention annuals and newsletters

At 04:48 PM 11/3/99 -0600, collin weber <coljwebwhs@HOTMAIL.COM>  wrote:
>Does anyone out there have any convention annuals or newsletters with
>interesting diagrams that they wouldn't mind parting with for a while.  I am
>willing to pay.  Or could you give me a place where it is easy to purchase
>these on the web.

Most current editions of OrigamiUSA's Annual Colections can be purchased
through their website at"

www.origami-usa.org

Marc

http://marckrsh.home.pipeline.com





From: Atsina <atsina@HOOKED.NET>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 00:17
Subject: Re: NO:  $10 Handling fee

Yes David,
Be afraid... we mothers are very frightening, and there are a number of us on
the list... and some of us are also librarians (though not me). And I imagine
that some are also lawyers. So eat your veggies and return your books and don't
give anyone cause to sue you ;).

Kim

david whitbeck wrote:
>
> Hi Deg!  Thanks for the reply.  To answer your question, it seems that
> there are more librarians than any other profession on this list.  Of
> course it's easy to blow that up and hard to see what really is the
> statistics.  I don't see how mathematicians or ce's could spook me I'm
> surrounded by them and students hoping to become them.  Lawyers always
> spook me, especially in great numbers.  And I'm totally not scared by
> mothers, but should I be?  They do seem aweful scarry now that I think of
> itS
>
> David





From: "K. A. Lundberg" <klundber@MNSINC.COM>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 02:12
Subject: Alright, I give up...help!

Just recently I've been folding Swedish/German stars because it occurred to
me as I was throwing away the side strips of my tractor fed computer paper
that it was very close to being the right proportion for those stars. It was
and it makes the model look like it is folded from picot lace...very nice.
Also taking advantage of the holes it is possible to get the flat base to
look more like a snowflake than a star.

Anyway, it started me thinking about other models those side strips might be
used for so I began searching the web for the woven fish and bird models to
try. Several hours of searching over a few days turned up directions for a
few variations on ribbon roses, a pinecone from palm leaves and some links
to discussion group threads that mostly said, "Oh, yes I remember the fish
(or bird) I learned it as a child." but no diagrams. I am hopeful that some
one on the list might be able to direct me to a book or a site that has
these diagrams.

Kalei
(who has decided not to buy a paper shredder--all I need is more strips of
paper I can't bear to throw away.)





From: Thoki Yenn <thok@THOK.DK>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 03:58
Subject: Sv:      Re: Rectangular Boxes

On  Wednesday, November 03, 1999 10:32 PM
James M. Sakoda gave a beautiful description
of folding the rectangular weaver shuttle box.

Gay Merril Gros has a lovely little story
that she tells while teaching this box,
she calls it the tale of "Brothers Long and Brothers Short"
and the story follows your description exacxtly
Thank you for reminding me Mr. Sakoda.

>1. Locate the ends of the middle line
>running the long side of the paper and then fold
>the long sides to the middle.
>2.  Unfold the folded sides and find the end points of the middle of the
>sheet running the short way and fold the ends to this line.
>3. Fold in the four corners  with  45 degree angles. The folded edges of
>the bend run the long way along crease lines.  The raw edges run parallel
>to the raw edges of the short end of the paper and leave a narrow strip.
>
>4.  Fold over the narrow strips to cover the folded corners.
>
>5.  Open out the sides of the box and allow the sides to stand upright.

Voila !
I believe it is the same box as Lillian Oppenheimer called the
Magazine Cover Box.

Greetings  Thoki Yenn.





From: Richard Gibbs <rjgibbs@SRV1.MED.ED.AC.UK>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 06:17
Subject: books from Japan

Hi,
  Has anyone living in the Uk ever bought books from Origami House in
Japan. I would really like to know how you went about getting payment
to them as we don't seem to do International Money orders anymore.

Thankyou
Richard Gibbs
Department of Medical Microbiology
The University of Edinburgh
Teviot Place
Edinburgh EH8 9AG
0131 650 3136 (3134)





From: sychen@EROLS.COM
Date: 04 Nov 1999 08:35
Subject: Re: Rectangular Boxes

This is my favorite story model to teach for beginners.

I recalled Gay mentioning she learned the story from Tom Hull,
who learned it from Fujimoto-san. Is this correct?

For those who don't read text diagrams I believe it can be found
through internet. Diagrammer might be John Smith?. But I can't
find it for the moment.

Happy folding!

Sy Chen

--- Original Message ---
        Thoki Yenn <thok@THOK.DK> Wrote on
        Thu, 4 Nov 1999 09:56:18 +0100
 ------------------

Gay Merril Gros has a lovely little story=20
that she tells while teaching this box,
she calls it the tale of "Brothers Long and Brothers Short"
and the story follows your description exacxtly=20
Thank you for reminding me Mr. Sakoda.
 ---snip---

Voila !
I believe it is the same box as Lillian Oppenheimer called the=20
Magazine Cover Box.

-----
Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html )
The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!





From: Foldmaster@AOL.COM
Date: 04 Nov 1999 09:00
Subject: Re: Alright, I give up...help!

In a message dated 11/4/99 2:13:00 AM Eastern Standard Time,
klundber@MNSINC.COM writes:

<<
 Anyway, it started me thinking about other models those side strips might be
 used for so I began searching the web for the woven fish and bird models to
 try. Several hours of searching over a few days turned up directions for a
 few variations on ribbon roses, a pinecone from palm leaves and some links
 to discussion group threads that mostly said, "Oh, yes I remember the fish
 (or bird) I learned it as a child." but no diagrams. I am hopeful that some
 one on the list might be able to direct me to a book or a site that has
 these diagrams.
  >>
Dear Kalei,

You can find a number of diagrams for models from strips of paper or ribbon
in "The Joy of Origami" by Kunihiko Kasahara.

Yours,

June Sakamoto





From: Terrence Rioux <trioux@WHOI.EDU>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 09:00
Subject: Re: New models

>Just write something! The poor guy has been hanging around all this time
     waiting for business to come by, >and all he has had since the
     announcement is a wall of silence. "What did I do wrong?", he has been
     >asking. It's not you, Mathias. It's that mutt
  he's chasing customers away, I tell you.

Well done, Ronald!  Actually, I really like the, um, 'busy' dog. I
certainly hope that you pursue getting a publisher, because I certainly
would like to add a 'Koh tome' to my library.

Cheers,

Terry Rioux





From: Ronald Koh <ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 09:27
Subject: Re: New models

Chris Hundley wrote:
>
> I need a diagram for the pooping dog!! Any plans to make one?
>

And who was it who started the 'Why diagram' thread? :o)

Actually, diagramming is in progress, although I don't know what on
earth for. It will be on Mathias' webpage - if he still wants to host
it!





From: Ronald Koh <ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 09:27
Subject: Re: Origami Books in Stores (was Best/Most complicated model)

Kellydunn2@AOL.COM wrote:
>
> In a message dated 11/3/99 3:19:08 PM, ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG writes:
>
> << That's not too bad. In Singapore, these books are slotted in the
> 'Women's Interest' section in perpetually all book stores except
> Borders. :o( >>
>
> Oh, that is so sad, (snip)
>
> Aren't most of the origami books published now by male folders? (snip) Are
     the books you are seeing in the
> "women's interest" section written by men or women?

More by male than female authors: e.g. John Montroll, Robert Lang, Nick
Robinson, Sergei Afonkin & Thomas Hull (Russian Origami), David Brill
(Brilliant Origami), etc., in the English language bookstores or wings
of bookstores. Among the ladies and couples, we have Tomoko Fuse and
Rona Gurkewitz & Bennett Arnstein, The Biddles, etc. And all of these
are sandwiched between books on needlecraft, other forms of papercraft,
beadwork, macrame and what have you. It's the same mix for the Japanese
books at Kinokuniya, though I don't know what the section they're filed
under is.

It's quite embarassing, sometimes, when there's a crowd of ladies at
that section, and I have to browse over their shoulders or stand a
little to the side, innocently waiting my turn. Imagine what it feels
like when some of these ladies look me up and down with that "What is
that dirty old man up to" glare in their eyes. It gets worse when I spot
a book I really must have, before one of them grabs it, and I make my
way forward .... (sigh). Singapore society is still pretty conservative.





From: Ronald Koh <ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 09:29
Subject: Re: cockatoo

The hand-drawn diagrams are in the 1993 OUSA Annual Collection. My copy
is with a friend right now, and I will need a bulldozer to help locate
the original drawings among the junk I keep. Off hand, I can't recall
how it was folded - it has been some years since I last folded it.

Folding the crest isn't difficult. I folded another one from a stretched
bird base. One of the points was used to fold the head and crest, two
for the claws and the last one for the tail. It's one of those models I
don't care much for because, with the exception of the head and crest,
the rest of the bird resembles Cerceda's parrot.

collin weber wrote:
>
> Does any one have suggetions on how to make a cockatoo?  I've been trying to
> create one for a while now with no success.  I know Ronald Koh has one.  Any
> ides on a starting base or a good way to get the crest on top of its head?
>
> Thanks
> Collin
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Anine Cleve <anine20@USA.NET>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 10:13
Subject: Re: [Paper-cutter & best model]

Hi!

I have now started to use my knife! And the knife + the 60 cm PLASTIC :/ ruler
seems to be the best solution so far! I cut exactly on the line and don't cut
away from it as I always did with the xacto-knife (hope that was the correct
name). I guess you were right that it has to be a blade that doesn't move. The
only annoying thing is that I cut into the plastic ruler now and then, but I
can ignore that ;)
It is still a mystery to me though how I can use a 60 cm long ruler and a 90
degrees triangle to measure the corners and still not make it exactly 90
degrees on the corners and 40 cm on the sides. I mean I measure 40 cm and draw
the line, I measure 90 degrees and make a mark and it still isn't perfect.
It's a mystery to me... anyway, the differences are now so small that I've
started folding the actual model. Hope I can do it!
In the end I have a question: Howcome I can draw a line along the ruler and
then when I put the ruler to follow the line I drew (and it's the same
ruler!!) suddenly the ruler meets the line on the sides but not in the
middle?
Best wishes!
               Anine

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: Allan findlay <a_findlay@EXCHANGE.CREATIONS.CO.UK>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 10:17
Subject: Re: [Paper-cutter & best model]

You aren't cutting or drawing your line on a soft surface are you?

--------------------------
        Allan           (a_findlay@exchange.creations.co.uk)

-----Original Message-----
From: Anine Cleve [mailto:anine20@USA.NET]
Sent: 04 November 1999 16:11
To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [Paper-cutter & best model]

Hi!

I have now started to use my knife! And the knife + the 60 cm PLASTIC :/
ruler
seems to be the best solution so far! I cut exactly on the line and don't
cut
away from it as I always did with the xacto-knife (hope that was the correct
name). I guess you were right that it has to be a blade that doesn't move.
The
only annoying thing is that I cut into the plastic ruler now and then, but I
can ignore that ;)
It is still a mystery to me though how I can use a 60 cm long ruler and a 90
degrees triangle to measure the corners and still not make it exactly 90
degrees on the corners and 40 cm on the sides. I mean I measure 40 cm and
draw
the line, I measure 90 degrees and make a mark and it still isn't perfect.
It's a mystery to me... anyway, the differences are now so small that I've
started folding the actual model. Hope I can do it!
In the end I have a question: Howcome I can draw a line along the ruler and
then when I put the ruler to follow the line I drew (and it's the same
ruler!!) suddenly the ruler meets the line on the sides but not in the
middle?
Best wishes!
               Anine

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: Anine Cleve <anine20@USA.NET>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 10:30
Subject: NO A rude librarian

Hi!

I tried to ask for a book at my local library once (in Denmark) and the
librarian (who I knew already was always very rude, except to grown ups which
means people over 30) told me it would be under the letter of the author and I
said I had already looked there so she said "Well, go and look again then!!".
Too "scared" to say anything I walked back to the shelf and looked a bit
though I already knew I couldn't find it (I looked really well the first time
since I didn't want to ask the librarian). I then walked home without the book
because I didn't dare to ask her again.
I tried another time where I borrow about 8 or 10 books and you're allowed to
buy up to 20 books, but the same librarian started complaining about us
borrowing so many books and told us we had to hand all of them in again and
that we would no way get to read all of them. She was always sending us
children/young people angry looks if we caught her eye.
Is this a proper way for a librarian to treat people?
I know it's very off origami ;) Hope you can forgive me!

Anine

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: Anine Cleve <anine20@USA.NET>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 10:32
Subject: Re: [Re: [Paper-cutter & best model]]

--------------
Allan findlay <a_findlay@EXCHANGE.CREATIONS.CO.UK> wrote:
You aren't cutting or drawing your line on a soft surface are you?

--------------------------
        Allan           (a_findlay@exchange.creations.co.uk)
------------------------------------------

Actually I have a newspaper underneath when I draw since the table is made of
the same as bathroom walls so it's not "straight". That house has no good
origami tables *sigh*. Is the newspaper the answer to my question?

Anine

-----Original Message-----
From: Anine Cleve [mailto:anine20@USA.NET]
Sent: 04 November 1999 16:11
To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: [Paper-cutter & best model]

Hi!

I have now started to use my knife! And the knife + the 60 cm PLASTIC :/
ruler
seems to be the best solution so far! I cut exactly on the line and don't
cut
away from it as I always did with the xacto-knife (hope that was the correct
name). I guess you were right that it has to be a blade that doesn't move.
The
only annoying thing is that I cut into the plastic ruler now and then, but I
can ignore that ;)
It is still a mystery to me though how I can use a 60 cm long ruler and a 90
degrees triangle to measure the corners and still not make it exactly 90
degrees on the corners and 40 cm on the sides. I mean I measure 40 cm and
draw
the line, I measure 90 degrees and make a mark and it still isn't perfect.
It's a mystery to me... anyway, the differences are now so small that I've
started folding the actual model. Hope I can do it!
In the end I have a question: Howcome I can draw a line along the ruler and
then when I put the ruler to follow the line I drew (and it's the same
ruler!!) suddenly the ruler meets the line on the sides but not in the
middle?
Best wishes!
               Anine

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: "K. A. Lundberg" <klundber@MNSINC.COM>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 12:00
Subject: Re: Alright, I give up...help!

June:
> You can find a number of diagrams for models from strips of paper or
ribbon
> in "The Joy of Origami" by Kunihiko Kasahara.

_________________________
Do you have an ISBN on this book? My search doesn't show a copy of this book
available.  The closest is a book by Toshie Takahama with this title.

Kalei





From: Carol Martinson <carolm47@YAHOO.COM>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 12:12
Subject: Re: NO A rude librarian

--- Anine Cleve  wrote:

> Is this a proper way for a librarian to treat
> people?
> I know it's very off origami ;) Hope you can forgive
> me!
>
> Anine

Of course not, but you knew that was the answer before
you sent the message.  No person providing service in
any setting should be rude.

As with every profession, there are people who do not
perform as they should.  Every couple of years we have
to attend sessions on providing good service, dealing
with angry customers, how to provide good service over
the telephone, how to communicate with children,
different ethnic groups, the deaf, etc.  We are
supposed to walk to the shelves with each and every
one of our customers. Our performance appraisals have
sections on providing good service. But all that
training can never totally change the basic
personality of a person, and not all libraries provide
such training or have the funds to bring in experts to
provide such training.  We had a former librarian
leave an endowment fund to us to provide staff
training, and the different metropolitan library
systems, including academic libraries, often pool
their resources to provide training sessions.  If her
supervisor never caught her doing it or never
corrected her for doing it, she would keeping
providing rude service of the type you described.

When not at work, I have received rude behavior from
salespeople, mechanics, attorneys, doctors, nurses,
you name it.

At work,  all the public service staff are recipients
of rude or threatening behavior every single day, some
days more than others, which is why we have to have so
much public service training.   It doesn't help to be
rude in response.  However, unlike other occupations
where the staff also receive much abuse, like retail
clerks,  the professional staff also receive a much
higher percentage of thank yous and grateful
responses, but not our poor clerks who check out the
books, register people for cards, and collect fines
for overdue books.  Again, metropolitan public
libraries experience this more than smaller libraries
in the same areas or in smaller communities.

Society in general, at least in the United States, is
becoming increasingly rude as a whole.

Carol Martinson

=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com





From: Rob Hudson <FashFold@AOL.COM>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 12:45
Subject: Re: NO A rude librarian

While I do agree that there is a considerable group of people who are
becoming rude, I do feel that there has been a serious emphasis on customer
service in general by companies over the last 5 years.  I am almost
incredulous when I receive rude service now because I have become accustomed
to a higher level of treatment, in general, from service personnel.  Plus,
especially with major corporations, I know that a report of inconsiderate
treatment from an employee usually results in serious repercussions from
upper management.

Rob





From: Anine Cleve <anine20@USA.NET>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 12:51
Subject: Re: [Re: NO A rude librarian]

Yeah, well it's when I see people like that working somewhere that I wonder
how they can behave like that and still get hired, and me who can not be rude
to anyone (it's against my person(ality?) can't get a job...

Carol Martinson <carolm47@YAHOO.COM> wrote:
--- Anine Cleve  wrote:

> Is this a proper way for a librarian to treat
> people?
> I know it's very off origami ;) Hope you can forgive
> me!
>
> Anine

Of course not, but you knew that was the answer before
you sent the message.  No person providing service in
any setting should be rude.

As with every profession, there are people who do not
perform as they should.  Every couple of years we have
to attend sessions on providing good service, dealing
with angry customers, how to provide good service over
the telephone, how to communicate with children,
different ethnic groups, the deaf, etc.  We are
supposed to walk to the shelves with each and every
one of our customers. Our performance appraisals have
sections on providing good service. But all that
training can never totally change the basic
personality of a person, and not all libraries provide
such training or have the funds to bring in experts to
provide such training.  We had a former librarian
leave an endowment fund to us to provide staff
training, and the different metropolitan library
systems, including academic libraries, often pool
their resources to provide training sessions.  If her
supervisor never caught her doing it or never
corrected her for doing it, she would keeping
providing rude service of the type you described.

When not at work, I have received rude behavior from
salespeople, mechanics, attorneys, doctors, nurses,
you name it.

At work,  all the public service staff are recipients
of rude or threatening behavior every single day, some
days more than others, which is why we have to have so
much public service training.   It doesn't help to be
rude in response.  However, unlike other occupations
where the staff also receive much abuse, like retail
clerks,  the professional staff also receive a much
higher percentage of thank yous and grateful
responses, but not our poor clerks who check out the
books, register people for cards, and collect fines
for overdue books.  Again, metropolitan public
libraries experience this more than smaller libraries
in the same areas or in smaller communities.

Society in general, at least in the United States, is
becoming increasingly rude as a whole.

Carol Martinson

=====

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at http://auctions.yahoo.com

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: Julia Palffy <jupalffy@BLUEWIN.CH>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 12:59
Subject: Re: best/most complicated model

Kellydunn2@AOL.COM wrote:
>
>
> It upsets me often to find origami books in the "craft" section of
stores.

That's not too bad. In Singapore, these books are slotted in the
'Women's Interest' section in perpetually all book stores except
Borders. :o(

That reminds me of one old library where i worked years ago, which had
feminist issues under the section psychology!!! But I'm wandering away from
the origami path... ;-)

Julia Palffy
Zug, Switzerland
jupalffy@bluewin.ch

__________
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I   There are more possibilities than you imagine.





From: Julia Palffy <jupalffy@BLUEWIN.CH>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 12:59
Subject: Re: unreal!

Might be an idea!!!

Julia Palffy
Zug, Switzerland
jupalffy@bluewin.ch

__________
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I   There are more possibilities than you imagine.





From: Tim Rueger <trueger@CRYSTAL.CIRRUS.COM>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 13:10
Subject: Re: Best/Most complicated model

>>>>> "ds" == Dave Stephenson <EruditusD@AOL.COM> writes:

    >>> Most hobbies have a "crown jewel" that is tough to attain.
    >>> What does everyone strive to do or build?

    ds> For complexity for the masses you could look as Lang's Origami
    ds> insects as a crown jewel, I think most people on the list have
    ds> (will) at somepoint in time strived to fold every model in this
    ds> book ... no matter how many times the paper literally falls
    ds> apart in your hands...

Yep, that's me.  In fact, the *book* fell apart in my hands (bad binding
- a common complaint about it).

    ds> I know that this is a book and not a particular model but anyone
    ds> who's looked at this book as an intermediate folder will know
    ds> exactly what I mean. How hard was Lang laughing when he wrote
    ds> every model in this book is can be folded from a square of
    ds> normal paper ... (or words to that effect at the end of the
    ds> preface:) )

It can be done, but my efforts didn't come out looking that great.
Perhaps some of the models just aren't suited for kami, or maybe I just
need to practice them some more.  You can see my first attempts at:

    http://www.io.com/~rueger/origami/insects/

-Tim
--
Tim Rueger             Crystal Semiconductor
Phone: (512) 912-3420  4210 S. Industrial Dr., Austin, TX 78744
Fax:   (512) 445-0857  Email: trueger@crystal.cirrus.com





From: Mark And Theresa <mark@HOBBITON.FORCE9.NET>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 13:22
Subject: Re: cockatoo

>
> Folding the crest isn't difficult. I folded another one from a stretched
> bird base. One of the points was used to fold the head and crest, two
> for the claws and the last one for the tail. It's one of those models I
> don't care much for because, with the exception of the head and crest,
> the rest of the bird resembles Cerceda's parrot.

My cockatiel attempt started with a corner of the original square
blintzed and then some strange prelim base folded. Later this corner was
pulled out and used as the basis for the crest
--
Mark





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 13:37
Subject: Re: Rectangular Boxes

James M. Sakoda <James_Sakoda@BROWN.EDU> sez

>2.  Unfold the folded sides and find the end points of the middle of the
>sheet running the short way and fold the ends to this line.

Having made the box, if you repeat, but fold all edges to a point
slightly short of the centre crease (.5cms or less), then continue as
before, you have a lid which slides perfectly onto the original box.

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@purplepeople.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 13:37
Subject: Re: Convention annuals and newsletters

Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@PIPELINE.COM> sez

>Most current editions of OrigamiUSA's Annual Colections can be purchased
>through their website at"
>www.origami-usa.org

And, surprise surprise, the same applies to the BOS convention books at
the BOS site;

www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos

never miss a chance,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@purplepeople.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/





From: Gillian Wiseman <gilladian@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 14:20
Subject: Re: [NO]ILL - was bahamut

D'gou,
Every library's policy is different, but here goes....

Our library will send out letters, even a certified letter, to any patron
who has overdue materials. But unless the fine/amount of lost books mounts
to over $75.00 we do not prosecute. Over that amount and we take them to
small claims court, where they are forced to either pay for materials or
return them, and pay court costs. The courts are very generous to us and
rarely find that we are out of line. But we do our utmost to get the
materials back BEFORE going to court! Unfortunately any money "earned" this
way goes into the general city coffers, not to the library directly.

Possibly 15-20% of the material that leaves our collection goes out this way
- we know who had it and they may or may not ever pay for it. Another 10% or
so of lost items simply vanish. We never know who took them. Our security
system, like most libraries, is fairly easy to circumvent.

The rest of our materials eventually get withdrawn because they are damaged
or worn out. Those things all go to our Friends' booksale to raise money for
new library projects.

Gillian

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Gillian Wiseman <gilladian@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 14:48
Subject: Re: Disappearing Library Origami Books

Dorothy, it is dispiriting to see materials disappear. I think personally
that it is all of a piece with the lack of manners and responsibility that
are prevalent in our society. Why bother to return something, it doesn't
inconvenience YOU!

Eventually, our society will swing back in the other direction, and we will
return to a more "Victorian" style of society where outward appearance,
including manners and visible responsibility are most important. Note that I
make no judgements about the ACTUAL level of morality involved!

Off my soap-box for the day!

Gillian

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 15:00
Subject: Re: New models

Ronald Koh wrote:
> Actually, diagramming is in progress, although I don't know what on
> earth for. It will be on Mathias' webpage - if he still wants to host
> it!
Only if you promise not to blurt out my whining...

Matthias





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 04 Nov 1999 15:09
Subject: Re: NO A rude librarian

Hi Anine posting a non-origami related subject under NO is quite all right.
And don't believe anybody that says otherwise.  Quite a few people might
try to bully into thinking the opposite in private emails.  I've received
emails concerning subjects and sometimes just how I say things, but doesn't
amount to a hill of beans.  There are people who like to bully others but
there are much more people on the list that not only aren't upset at a NO
email but are interested.  I myself liked reading about this mean
librarian, the librarian for our school librarian was that way.  It was a
two story building with many of the classrooms and the library on the
second floor.  No one was allowed on the second floor during lunch except
to go to the computer room.  I had been sick and needed to go up to the
computer room during lunch to make up some work from my computer class.
When I went up to the second floor I saw the librarian walking around the
halls giving detention slips to whoever she caught.  She saw me, I
protested that I was going to the computer lab to makeup homework, a valid
reason for being up there, but she didn't believe me and gave me a
detention slip and sent me back downstairs.  A few days passed and since I
didn't make up that work I wasn't passing the class.  So my parents were
called in and my computer teacher asked me in front of them why I hadn't
made up the work.  I told them and no one believed me, they believed the
librarian thinking that I was up there for no good and not to make up class
work.  How much sense does that even make?  Well that was along time ago,
but I still remember it.  So if you want a story of a bad librarian beat
that!  The librarian simply didn't care about any of us students, she saw
us like bugs in my eyes.  I'm sure glad junior high only lasts two years.
You might think that she was just doing her job and I'm blowing things out
of proportion but this wasn't a unique case, she did this and looked for
excuses to punish students all the time.

David
