




From: Robby/Laura <morassi@ZEN.IT>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 19:23
Subject: Re: [Re: IRC Chat]

Anine,
At 05.07 29/10/1999 -0400, you wrote:

>Go to www.mirc.co.uk and click on Download mIRC, then you choose which server
>you think would be the fastest for you to download from and you can see above
>the servernames which programme you should have on the computer (32- or
>16-bit) and that's it! You can find a lot of information on the homepage (URL
>above) about how to use it.

Collin, e-mail me if you need help on setting or using mIRC. Please note
that this is for IRC chatting, NOT for Web chatting..... nothing to do with
yahoo-clubs, etc.

>And once again everyone I'm on #Origami Dalnet alone.. so come on in! My nick
>is Josefin!

Hmmmm...... I'm afraid you have not fully understood how IRC works. If by
"#origami Dalnet" you mean a permanent (registered) channel, which people
occasionally join to chat, etc., you are wrong ! There is NO #origami
channel on DALnet !!! Try /list #origami, or /who #origami, and in both
cases you will get the same reply: "No such channel" or "0 channels". BUT,
if you command /join #origami, THEN the channel will suddenly exist because
YOU have just created it, and it will only last until the last person
leaves it. Of course you will be alone forever in your channel unless
somebody notices the name and joins for sheer curiosity (much unlikely !).
Unless you let US know in advance the date and hour of your creating the
channel..... then some of us may join you. That's what I did last time.

BTW, DALnet is a BIG network with several thousand channels, and might not
be the best choice for chatting (slower). Try a smaller network, e.g. Xnet
or Talkcity: oddly enough, the latter is NOT in mIRC's servers list, and
that's a shame as it's a very interesting network with unusual channels not
found elsewhere. Add it to the list, the host name is

chat.talkcity.com

There is a second group of channels in Moretalkcity, add this too and
explore it:

morechat.talkcity.com

Later,

Roberto / Robbix





From: Tiffany Tam <origamiwing@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 19:34
Subject: Re: $ bill Viking Helmet

Hello Joe,
I would like to see your diagram!
Thank you.

Wing

>From: Papa Joe <papajoe@CHORUS.NET>
>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: $ bill Viking Helmet
>Date: Fri, 29 Oct 1999 13:28:54 -0700
>
>I have finished diagraming the "$Viking Helmet".
>(2 JPG pics 800X600)
>
>If anyone is interested in the diagrams just E-mail me.
>
>Also anyone want to host these diagrams on their
>web pages? (Joseph? Maarten? any Scandinavian web sites?)
>
>Happy Folding!
>
>Joe                 papajoe@chorus.net

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From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 20:12
Subject: Re: Scorpion by Montroll??

At 04:45 99/10/29 -0400, you wrote:
>Okay, I'm confused now... I did a search for "Scorpion" in the Model Index
>on the OUSA page. Among other models, it showed that there was a scorpion in
>"Animal Origami for the Enthusiast", p. 82, I believe... Well, in my copy,
>there's a spider on that page... Now I'm wondering - is there a scorpion in
>a different edition, or maybe it's in a different book, or is it just flat
>out a mistake in the data base?? Does anyone know if there's even a scorpion
>by Montroll?

Probably a mistake in the database. They also list a "stegosaurus" in "VIVA!
Origami" but that model is actually "Godzilla". Mind you, in that second
case, they have an excuse since the name is only written in Japanese!

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 20:12
Subject: Re: [Re: Beginner looking for advice]

At 07:16 99/10/29 -0400, you wrote:
>Hmmm I've noticed we have a Paul Jackson on this list.. might it be the same
>person?

Yes. There are a number of origami luminaries on this list.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: John Sutter <sutterj@EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 20:14
Subject: 1,000 cranes for John update

Greetings:

For all of you who sent cranes and well wishes for my
husband John because of his lymphoma, I want you to know
that he in a partial remission and doing very well.  He's
just returned from a fishing trip in the Ozarks and he's
working and enjoying life as much as before the diagnosis.

He's otimistic about a complete remission and new treatments
too.  Maybe there was some magic in all those cranes I strung
together.  They can be seen at the paperwonders site at Yahoo.

Ria Sutter





From: James Storrs <italic@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 21:34
Subject: He doesn't like borrowing books

Good grief, man!!!!!!  Her suggestion is quite good, in fact.  Better to
have borrowed and "made notes" than never to have viewed at all.
   Yes, owning is good, but if it's out of print and you don't stumble on a
copy by accident, ILL is a great alternative.  As for the books being lost,
I would say that 99% of the many books I borrow from Gillian's library are
available from some library in the USA.  I submit a request, it goes out
over the internet, and in 4 or 5 days I get the call that it's waiting for
me.
James Storrs

----- Original Message -----
From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 3:59 PM
Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice

> Gillian Wiseman wrote:
> >
> > Matthias,
> > Libraries don't care if a book is out of print!!! Interlibrary Loan
> > it!!!!!!!
> You have a point, even with fewer exclamation marks. But depending on
> how long the book has been out of print, a library might not have it
> anymore. Good books do tend to disappear miraculously. And having to
> give it back after just a few weeks isn't quite the same thing as owning
> it, anyway.
>
> Matthias





From: Karen Reeds <reeds@OPENIX.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 21:59
Subject: Re: ORIGAMI Digest - 28 Oct 1999 to 29 Oct 1999 (#1999-51)

>Date:    Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:51:17 -0700
>From:    sychen@EROLS.COM
>Subject: Re: desktop pencil cup/Sy Chen's/Karen Reeds's/who else's pyramid
>container
>
>The cool one available in the net is Pencil pot by Marc Vigo
>Anglada. You can download it from
>ftp://ftp.rug.nl/origami/models/boxes/index.htm
>
>There are plenty of other container models. Just explore by yourself.
>
>Have a nice FOLD!
>Sy Chen

Thanks, Sy, for telling use about this neat model--which has 2 adjacent
rectangular columns of different heights--and website.

You were too modest to mention your own Pyramid container on the same
website. I think that one is inspired--but I'm prejudiced because I had the
same inspiration almost 10 years ago! According to a note in my old
"origami invention notebook," I sent diagrams for the same model to OUSA's
Alice Gray Challenge in 1991, with a comment that the model was so easy, I
was sure the other people must have invented it already!

It's one of my favorites to teach to beginners, because it combines the
water cup with the water-bomb base in such a satisfying way. Moreover, if
you cut up another square of the same size into 4 little squares, you can
fold each of those the same way, stick them--open side up or down, model
fully or partly expanded-- on simple leaf/stems (which has also been
independetly invented several times, I'm sure), call them buds or flowers,
and fill the vase with them.

I know I have seen diagrams somewhere for an even more elegant version
which manages to make all the slanting sides clean surfaces, uninterrupted
by raw edges. Anyone know who deserves the credit for that, and where
diagrams might be found?

Karen





From: DORIGAMI@AOL.COM
Date: 29 Oct 1999 23:25
Subject: Re: CRUMPLED Paper FROG

A lady from Ohio, Gloria Farrison (now deceased) in a long ago magical moment
showed me how to make the easiest hopping frog.  Just crumple a small piece
of paper into a ball and then run your finger down it like you would hop one
of our origami frogs and the little ball will give a little hop. Soooo cute
and easy.  The kids love it and so do the adults.  Always good for a little
laugh...... I call this a magical moment because so often when you are think
tanking with an origami friend they will show you something that you will
remember , use, and pass on during your lifetime..  Is this her afterlife, do
you think? Dorigami





From: DORIGAMI@AOL.COM
Date: 29 Oct 1999 23:38
Subject: Re: Flexagons

To Dave Mitchell, you are right about Fred Rohms flexagon.  I think you did
turn the outer edges into the hole somehow. l will have to find it and check
it out.    Dorigami.





From: Sandra P Hoffman <ghidra@CONSCOOP.OTTAWA.ON.CA>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 23:42
Subject: Godzilla and Company was Re: Scorpion by Montroll??

On Fri, 29 Oct 1999, Joseph Wu wrote:
>
> Probably a mistake in the database. They also list a "stegosaurus" in "VIVA!
> Origami" but that model is actually "Godzilla". Mind you, in that second
> case, they have an excuse since the name is only written in Japanese!

My son, who refuses to learn to read English, can recognize Godzilla's
name written in Japanese. Someday I'll have to find diagrams for
Godzilla. It would be even better if I could find pictures and or diagrams
for Ghidora. I bet no one has attempted Anguilas yet, or tried to mutate a
rose into Biollante. Talk about sticky out bits.

sph

Sandra P. Hoffman ghidra@conscoop.ottawa.on.ca
http://www.flora.org/sandra/
----------------------------
The one small garden of a free gardener was all his need and due,
not a garden swollen to a realm;
his own hands to use,
not the hands of others to command. --Sam Gamgee





From: Elaina Quackenbush <elaina_quackenbush@NETZERO.NET>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 23:44
Subject: magical moments was re: Re: CRUMPLED Paper FROG

I think magical moments are around us everywhere.  The first one to introduce
     me to origami
is a nameless teenager (who has to be in his 30's now) entertaining me while I
     was stuck at
my sister's HS debate.  I was 6 or so.  I still pass on the flapping bird to
     pretty much every
kid I meet that wants to see it with the story of how I got into origami, and I
     somehow have
earned the title of Paper Lady to the neighborhood kids.  Quite a good feeling
     when you get
called to in the store by children you don't know, because some kid told them
     about you.

El

Download the Lycos Browser at http://lycos.neoplanet.com

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http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 02:58
Subject: Bahamut

You know that Bahamut model?  Where does it come from?

David





From: Julia Palffy <jupalffy@BLUEWIN.CH>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 04:25
Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice

Matthias wrote:

depending on
how long the book has been out of print, a library might not have it
anymore.

The point of Interlibrary Loaning is that your librarian traces libraries
which actually currently have the book you want in their records - and if
the first one doesn't have it because someone else has borrowed it or it is
missing, then your request goes on to the next (and the next and the next)
until it reaches a library which can send it to you. So don't lose heart
just because your local library doesn't have it! Your librarian may be able
to tell you that you can find it in another library of your country and
order it for you. Or, if you're desperate (say writing a doctoral thesis on
the significance of the quality of washi used for ritual origami in Kyoto
in the 17th century...), you can borrow a book from a library in another
country. The British Library makes a point of responding efficiently and
quickly, and prides itself in responding to 80% of requests from abroad
within 2 weeks.. You can even browse its catalogue and request documents
online at: http://www.bl.uk. You can also search the catalogue of the
Library of Congress in Washington at:
http://lcweb.loc.gov/homepage/lchp.html

Of course, this still requires the patience to wait, and costs postage and
services... so it depends how rich or how desperate you are... :-(((

Matthias also wrote:

And having to
give it back after just a few weeks isn't quite the same thing as owning
it, anyway.

I entirely agree with that. Though I am a librarian, I prefer to buy my own
books rather than borrow them. But it depends what I am looking for, and
why. There are books which may be important to consult, but I know that my
interest will be only temporary, and they are out of price too... then I'm
glad to know there's a library to provide me with the information I'm
looking for. My bookcase is spilling over as it is... ;-)

Good luck to all book hunters!

Julia Palffy
Zug, Switzerland
jupalffy@bluewin.ch

__________
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I   There are more possibilities than you imagine.





From: Robert Allan Schwartz <notbob@TESSELLATION.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 04:37
Subject: Re: origami alphabet ?

>I once remember seeing diagrams for letters of the alphabet (some
>anyway) siting on the web now that i've found a use for them the link
>seems to have gone.
>Does any one have simlar diagrams or an updated link ?
>
>Thanks in advance
>Darren

I believe Jeannine Mosely was working on one. Jeannine?

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Allan Schwartz     | voice (617) 499-9470
PMB 354                   | fax   (617) 249-0330
955 Massachusetts Ave.    | email notbob@tessellation.com
Cambridge, MA 02139-3180  | URL   http://www.tessellation.com/index.html





From: Paul Jackson <Mpjackson@BTINTERNET.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 06:12
Subject: Re: I want a paper cutter!

> Paul Jackson wrote:
> > Instead, I use an un-serrated Sabattier kitchen knife with a 15cm
> > (6in) blade.  Simply fold the paper back along a sharp crease
where
> > the cut needs to be made and slice through it with smooth strokes,
> > holding the paper steady at the crease and keeping the blade
> > absolutely horizontal with the handle off the front of the table
(so
> > that the blade can remain horizontal).  To be fair, there's a
knack to
> > cutting well, but it's hardly rocket science and the technique is
> > easily learnt.  The blade works best when slightly dull.

D'gou replied
> Ok, ok, I have to ask, since I've had no luck with this technique...
>
> Everytime I've tried this I discover that what I thought was a very
narrow
> crease is actually quite wide, and however careful I am, the knife
seems to
> "wander" up and down on the width of the crease and I get a
non-straight edge.
> Any more specific info/tips to pass on would be appreciated.
> -D'gou

If your blade is wandering, it is probably too sharp.  I suggest
dulling it a little.  As a dullness guide, I can press the blades of
my Sabattier knives into the pads of my fingers and even run the blade
along the pads with quite some pressure without any danger of cutting
myself ('Kids -- Don't Try This at Home without Parental
Supervision'!), so I suppose the blade must be dull enough to be
useless for kitchen purposes.  Conversly, a blade that is too dull
cuts an unsightly fluffy edge.   When I buy a new knife, I delicately
tap the edge of the blade with a small hammer, square-on, cutting
paper after each
run along the blade to test its dullness, until it's just right.

I prefer Sabattiers over the penknives and other knives suggested
during this thread because they are perfectly balanced in the hand.
This -- I've noticed -- gives me greater control when slicing through
a crease, and the long blade means that I make fewer but longer and
more graceful sliceing movements.

Paul Jackson





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 07:15
Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice

Julia Palffy wrote:
> order it for you. Or, if you're desperate (say writing a doctoral thesis on
> the significance of the quality of washi used for ritual origami in Kyoto
> in the 17th century...), you can borrow a book from a library in another
> country.
<snip>
> Of course, this still requires the patience to wait, and costs postage and
> services... so it depends how rich or how desperate you are... :-(((
Yes, I've been down this before, quite a few years ago, when I was
writing about risk-taking behaviour; lucky for me, the institute covered
the costs, which weren't all that insignificant.
Still, some of the books I needed couldn't be located anywhere. But I
guess for less obscure subjects that's not the case.

Matthias





From: Gillian Wiseman <gilladian@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 11:19
Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice

Matthias,
Sorry for  all the exclamation points. I get carried away with them
sometimes.

By the way, I just Interlibrary loaned the flower series books that were
mentioned earlier (spring, summer, fall, winter), and they are really nice
books. Even in Japanese. I'm enjoying making a display of seasonal flowers
for the library's display case.

Gillian

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From: Gillian Wiseman <gilladian@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 11:35
Subject: Re: He doesn't like borrowing books

James,
I must agree with Matthias; there's nothing like owning a good book.
However, I also have to say that if someone is getting into a new hobby and
cannot make a large investment, ILL is a good resource. Or to look at a book
that may be very hard to find before investing in an OOP search.

Yes, the odds are that the library will be able to find the book somewhere
and get it for you. But the facts are that about 1/3 of materials that leave
a library's collection, do so illicitly. And at least another 10-20% leave
because of damage deliberately inflicted upon the book by a patron armed
with a razor, scissors, or just the strength to rip pages out of the
binding. Its a sad world we live in!

Gillian

>Good grief, man!!!!!!  Her suggestion is quite good, in fact.  Better to
>have borrowed and "made notes" than never to have viewed at all.
>    Yes, owning is good, but if it's out of print and you don't stumble on
>a
>copy by accident, ILL is a great alternative.  As for the books being lost,
>I would say that 99% of the many books I borrow from Gillian's library are
>available from some library in the USA.  I submit a request, it goes out
>over the internet, and in 4 or 5 days I get the call that it's waiting for
>me.
>James Storrs
>
>----- Original Message -----
>From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
>To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 3:59 PM
>Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice
>
>
> > Gillian Wiseman wrote:
> > >
> > > Matthias,
> > > Libraries don't care if a book is out of print!!! Interlibrary Loan
> > > it!!!!!!!
> > You have a point, even with fewer exclamation marks. But depending on
> > how long the book has been out of print, a library might not have it
> > anymore. Good books do tend to disappear miraculously. And having to
> > give it back after just a few weeks isn't quite the same thing as owning
> > it, anyway.
> >
> > Matthias

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From: Wendi Curtis <rebelgami@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 11:35
Subject: Re: origami alphabet ?

Try kimscrane.com for a book on the alphabets and numbers.  It is in
Japanese, Korean, and English. I think the title is, ABC & 123 by Taichiro
Hasegawa.
WC

>From: Robert Allan Schwartz <notbob@TESSELLATION.COM>
>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: origami alphabet ?
>Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:42:06 -0400
>
> >I once remember seeing diagrams for letters of the alphabet (some
> >anyway) siting on the web now that i've found a use for them the link
> >seems to have gone.
> >Does any one have simlar diagrams or an updated link ?
> >
> >Thanks in advance
> >Darren
>
>I believe Jeannine Mosely was working on one. Jeannine?
>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------
>Robert Allan Schwartz     | voice (617) 499-9470
>PMB 354                   | fax   (617) 249-0330
>955 Massachusetts Ave.    | email notbob@tessellation.com
>Cambridge, MA 02139-3180  | URL   http://www.tessellation.com/index.html
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Julia Palffy <jupalffy@BLUEWIN.CH>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 11:44
Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice

Matthias wrote:
Still, some of the books I needed couldn't be located anywhere. But I
guess for less obscure subjects that's not the case.

Asking for information and/or help is still democratically free.... aren't
     there at least two or three librarians on the list? :))

But it's true that in some countries origami might still count as an obscure
     subject... <sigh!>

Julia Palffy
Zug, Switzerland
jupalffy@bluewin.ch

__________
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I   There are more possibilities than you imagine.





From: Gillian Wiseman <gilladian@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 11:48
Subject: Re: Bahamut

According to "Everyman's Dictionary of Non-Classical Mythology" Bahamut is
"the enormous fish on which stands Kajatu, the giant bull, whose back
supports a rock of ruby, on the top of which stands an angel on whose
shoulders rests the earth, according to Islamic myth. Our word behemoth is
of the same origin."

In D&D terms (Dungeons and Dragons)bahamut is the "god" of all good dragons.
Where they got this from, I can't begin to figure out. He is opposed by
Tiamat, the three headed "goddess" of evil dragons.

Gillian

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From: "James M. Sakoda" <James_Sakoda@BROWN.EDU>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 12:05
Subject: Re: Origami v Paper Folding

>David Whitbeck wrote earlier today:
>
>> I'm a little confused about something though: this is to David Lister: if
>>  origami didn't originate in Japan, where did it originate?
>
>We don't know. It may possibly have started in Japan, but there is not
>evidence of this  and in the absence of evidence it is wrong to state
>dogmatically (as so many dictionaries do) that paperfolding  originated in
>Japan.
>
>Paperfolding may have originated independently in different parts of the
>world. On a factual basis, the evidence we have for recreational paperfolding
>in Europe is as early as it is in Japan, and there was a long independent
>tradition of paperfolding in Europe before influence from Japan began to
>filter through in the second half of the 19th Century.
>
>Paperfolding is as likely to have started in China as in Japan, but this is
>just one more guess and once more, there is, again, no evidence.
>
>This is not to say that the Japanese have not had a richer paperfolding
>tradition than any other country. They certainly have, but we are talking not
>of richnesses, but of origins.
>
>David Lister.

David Lister is correct in saying that recreational paper folding may have
originated in other countries beside Japan.  However, when most of us are
talking about origami originating in Japan we are usually thinking of what
is now often refer to as "traditional origami".  It starts with
representations of living creatures or familiar objects folded from a
square paper.  Many of the earliest works started from a double or triple
blintz fold, resulting in such objects as the Yakkosan with short sleeves,
the Hakama, the double boat, which could be changed into a trick boat.  One
of the most Japanese of the creations is the Komuso or Komoso, the flute
playing wandering monk.  Somewhere along the line the bird base appeared,
with the elegant ori-zuru (folded crane), which was used extensively as a
design in clothing.  The best concrete evidence of development of origami
in Japan can be found in Takagi's latest publication, showing pictures of
origami designs used in clothing.  Early origami books published in
English, such as Murray and Rigney's Paper Folding for Beginners (1928,
1960) follow the Japanese tradition.  They do add the Chinese Junk, a
remarkable boat folded from a box and uses a  unique pullout procedure
which produces square decks.  This boat is not in the Japanese tradition
and may well have originated in China, but theJapanese have a similar boat
called a Takarabune (treasure boat) but is folded differently.  I believe
that it is correct to say that origami involved in folding a square paper
into familiar objects began in Japan.  It does not negate David's position
that origami could have begun in other countries, but none of them seem to
have developed the following that Japanese origami did.   James M. Sakoda





From: Dorothy Engleman <FoldingCA@WEBTV.NET>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 13:26
Subject: Re: Bahamut

Hi Gillian!

I used to do the bustling interlibrary loan detail at a medical library.
Unfortunately, it's not as rewarding to ILL origami books here in Los
Angeles County.  They're some of the favorite targets of thieving
miscreants!  Come to think of it, it seems to be de rigueur here in La
La Land for patrons to scribble their notes all over library books.

Dorothy





From: BoyohBoy17@AOL.COM
Date: 30 Oct 1999 14:12
Subject: Re: Bahamut

The Bahamut is in the latest Tandedan convention book (I think 5?).





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 14:16
Subject: Re: He doesn't like borrowing books

Gillian Wiseman indited:

+However, I also have to say that if someone is getting into a new hobby and
+cannot make a large investment, ILL is a good resource. Or to look at a book
+that may be very hard to find before investing in an OOP search.

Also, if one is not a completist collector, there are many origami
books that probably aren't worth owning, esp. if you have to pay a high
fee to hunt them down in a used book search. ILL is an _excellent_ way
to find out if you wish to acquire the book (Duh, not by stealing it
from ILL...) or not.

It has been remarked that Dover has "done the origami good" by keeping
origami books of various ages and complexity levels in print (and
extremely inexpesively at that), so perhaps as more origami book
copyrights expire, Dover will pick them up. I at least hold out some
hope for that. ;-)

-D'gou





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 14:29
Subject: Re: I want a paper cutter!

Paul Jackson indited:

+If your blade is wandering, it is probably too sharp.  I suggest
+dulling it a little.

+cuts an unsightly fluffy edge.   When I buy a new knife, I delicately
+tap the edge of the blade with a small hammer, square-on, cutting
+paper after each
+run along the blade to test its dullness, until it's just right.

Thanks! Now that is something I wouldn't have thought to try. I might
not be able to bring myself to dull a knife blade (its personal
failing, I know, ;-) ), but, I could see making/whittling a short
twig/stick into a suitable paper cutter.  It would be nice to have an
alternative cutting mechansim.

If I may furhter impose upon Mr. Jackson and/or any others willing to
share their techniques/secrets...

For a long time I have wanted a 50+" rotary paper cutter, to cut very large
paper into very large squares/rectangles (Lang's Cuckoo Clock comes to mind).
There are two downsides to such a device: Expense, and Space.

So, using the technique Paul described, how might one accurately cut a 36-50"
square from a larger sheet of paper. The ideal solution would address these
issues:
        The initial starting shape of the paper may not have any square
            corners or parallel edges.

        Techniques shown in the front of some books show a method that
            involves folding over a thin edge of paper, something which
            is particularly difficult to do since the crease wanders
            and does not want to stay straight.

I find for making smaller squares (less than 12") than carrying a small
self healing cutting mat, straight edge and/or templates, and knife is
both convenient and fast. However, I would still be interested in
techniques that apply to making small squares.

Thanks!
        -D'gou





From: Susan Dugan <florafauna@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 15:07
Subject: Re: reguest from Hobbit

Sunday I am heading for Houston Texas. My mother, Dixie, will be having
surgery at Herman Hospital on Monday. She was injured during a family trip
to Seattle during the ORCA convention.
I was at the convention when my family (Mom,Dad, husband & daughter) was
involved in a multiple car accident on Interstate 5 in Seattle.
Allen, running ORCA, got a wonderful person to take me to the Emergency room
and he waited to see what help he could be (sorry I forgot your name). We
appreciate all the concern and help while we were there. The folks attending
ORCA were great.
The doctors thought that Mom had re-injured her back, so we came back to
South Carolina, USA. Well it is a different problem caused by the accident
and she is having two vertebra repaired, and four fused this Monday.

What I would like to ask is that you fold a crane for Dixie and while you
fold it say a prayer and/or think good thoughts for her surgery and
recovery. You could put the crane were you will see it and think good
thoughts for her recovery. I'm sure thoughts and prayers from around the
world in any form will help. Dixie will be in Texas most of November
recovering from the surgery. You can email any messages about this directly
to me at  florafauna@email.msn.com .

Thank you
Hobbit, Susan Dugan





From: "Katherine J. Meyer" <kathy@SILENTWORLD.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 15:59
Subject: Origami Mambo

Hi All:

"Mambo #5" by Lou Bega hit number four on the Billboard charts this
week. It's a fun little song. Here is my take on it.....

Got the rhythm..... Here we goooooo

        Origami Mambo

A little bit of Jackson by my side
A little bit of Lang for my pride
A little bit of Thoki, oh so fine
A little bit of Brill, how divine
A little bit of Kirschenbaum, so complex
A little bit of Hull, instead of sex
A little bit of Sutherland, all night long
A little bit of Wu, ya can t go wrong

And crease up and down and turn it once around
Fold your paper to the sound, or crumble in a mound
Valley on the left and valley on the right
Mountain to a kite and lock it nice and tight
Clap your hands once and clap your hands twice
And if it looks like this, then you re doing it right

Feel free to add to the song.
Thanks for singing along,
Kathy  <*))))><





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 16:16
Subject: Re: He doesn't like borrowing books

>James,
>I must agree with Matthias; there's nothing like owning a good book.
>However, I also have to say that if someone is getting into a new hobby and
>cannot make a large investment, ILL is a good resource. Or to look at a book
>that may be very hard to find before investing in an OOP search.
>
>Yes, the odds are that the library will be able to find the book somewhere
>and get it for you. But the facts are that about 1/3 of materials that leave
>a library's collection, do so illicitly. And at least another 10-20% leave
>because of damage deliberately inflicted upon the book by a patron armed
>with a razor, scissors, or just the strength to rip pages out of the
>binding. Its a sad world we live in!
>
>Gillian

Gillian that is not true at all libraries!  Have hope the world is better
than you think.  At the public library where I live the books are for the
most part are undamaged and only a few have been lost.

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 16:20
Subject: Re: Bahamut

>The Bahamut is in the latest Tandedan convention book (I think 5?).

Yeah I know, that's why I wanted to know what it was because I haven't
heard of Bahamut before.  It is in 5.  Thanks to the people that replied.
Since Bahamut the model is a dragon maybe the inspiration was d&d, is
anyone familar with d&d know if that's the case?

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 16:22
Subject: Re: Origami Mambo

Kathy that is clever!  Keep on singing and folding!

David





From: Anine Cleve <anine20@USA.NET>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 16:43
Subject: [Re: IRC Chat]]

Robby/Laura <morassi@ZEN.IT> wrote:

>Hmmmm...... I'm afraid you have not fully understood how IRC works. If by
>"#origami Dalnet" you mean a permanent (registered) channel, which people
>occasionally join to chat, etc., you are wrong ! There is NO #origami
>channel on DALnet !!!

I know that!

> Try /list #origami, or /who #origami, and in both
>cases you will get the same reply: "No such channel" or "0 channels". >BUT,
>if you command /join #origami, THEN the channel will suddenly exist >because
>YOU have just created it,

I know, that's why I say I'm on #Origami, because I create it when I'm on IRC.
Whatelse should I say?

> and it will only last until the last person
>leaves it.

I know, but it's more likely to find origami people at #Origami than just
stick to the #Roxette channel I am always at.

> Of course you will be alone forever in your channel unless
>somebody notices the name and joins for sheer curiosity (much unlikely >!).

Or somebody sees my mails to the mailinglist that I'm there now or somebody
feels like checking IRC now that they're online anyway (which is my goal). No
need to make certain times when you're there if people check when they're
online. People can pop in when they want to, doesn't have to be at certain
times!
Does anybody agree?

> Unless you let US know in advance the date and hour of your creating the
> channel..... then some of us may join you. That's what I did last time.

Well, that's not my strategy ;)
On the #Roxette channel people pop up 24 hours a day which is much better than
if all people pop up for a few hours at a certain time everyday which either
only fits Europeans or others. Hope you get what I mean!

> BTW, DALnet is a BIG network with several thousand channels, and might >
not
> be the best choice for chatting (slower). Try a smaller network, e.g. >
Xnet
> or Talkcity: oddly enough, the latter is NOT in mIRC's servers list, and
> that's a shame as it's a very interesting network with unusual channels >
not
> found elsewhere. Add it to the list, the host name is
>chat.talkcity.com

I'm gonna stick to Dalnet! So people come to #Origami on Dalnet any time you
want! You might find me or others there!

Anine aka Josefin on Dalnet

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: James Storrs <italic@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 16:47
Subject: Do patrons everywhere deface books?

David, from my experiences in library training and as an enthusiastic
patron, I think the picture presented was a bit bleak.  I'm particularly
interested in moveable books (pop-ups and the like) which, with their
intricacies, would seem ripe targets for mutilation.  And yet I have been to
libraries which place these books in the circulating area, and for the most
part they are in good condition.  Likewise, when I request one of these
titles through ILL there is almost always an intact copy available.
James

> Gillian that is not true at all libraries!  Have hope the world is better
> than you think.  At the public library where I live the books are for the
> most part are undamaged and only a few have been lost.
>
> David





From: Gillian Wiseman <gilladian@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 17:04
Subject: Re: [NO]ILL - was bahamut

Dorothy,
It is still de-riguer for people to write, spill coffee, drip food, and
otherwise make library books as ooky as possible, in as short a time as
possible. Nothing ever changes.

Our library has a terrible time keeping books on origami, calligraphy, the
occult, witchcraft,ghosts, GED, and karate, to name a few topics that come
readily to mind! they all grow little feet and wander out the door.

Gillian

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Gillian Wiseman <gilladian@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 17:17
Subject: Re: He doesn't like borrowing books

David,
I'm glad to hear that your library is different. I'm quoting the statistics
for "lost materials" that I remember from Library School, and which seem to
be true here as well. It's so depressing to realize that we purchased three
copies of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's stone three or four months ago,
and already one is missing.

Sigh,

Gillian

______________________________________________________
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From: Gillian Wiseman <gilladian@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 17:19
Subject: Re: Bahamut

I guess I'm familiar with it - been playing for over 20 years. I assume the
inspiration was DND because the mythology is all wrong!

Gillian
(DND is famous for getting its mythological underpants on inside out, so to
speak!)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Anine Cleve <anine20@USA.NET>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 17:28
Subject: Ordering books at libraries

>Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH> wrote:
>Gillian Wiseman wrote:
>
> Matthias,
> Libraries don't care if a book is out of print!!! Interlibrary Loan
> it!!!!!!!
You have a point, even with fewer exclamation marks. But depending on
how long the book has been out of print, a library might not have it
anymore. Good books do tend to disappear miraculously. And having to
give it back after just a few weeks isn't quite the same thing as owning
it, anyway.

Matthias
-----

I tried once I wanted to borrow a Roxette Biography at the library. I went to
the bigger library (in the nearest bigger town with about 30.000 inhabitants)
but they didn't have it and they couldn't get it for me from anywhere they
said (I think they even checked on their computer). Then I went to my local
library which lies in my village with 1000 inhabitants and they got it for me
from another library!! I thought it was strange that the big library couldn't
get it but the small one could!
It's a strange world sometimes ;)
I borrowed the book later again from the same library ;)

Anine

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 18:31
Subject: Re: [NO]ILL - was bahamut

Gillian Wiseman indited:

+Our library has a terrible time keeping books on origami, calligraphy, the
+occult, witchcraft,ghosts, GED, and karate, to name a few topics that come
+readily to mind! they all grow little feet and wander out the door.

Pardon my curiosity, but I've always wondered ...since the library knows who
borrows the books (that's presumably how they send out recall and overdue
notices), are these books that are stolen from the shelves, or is the library
just not in a position to punish those who never return the books?

Thanks,
        -D'gou

P.S. As a donator of origami books to libraries, I'm particularly curious.





From: Bernie Cosell <bernie@FANTASYFARM.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 18:46
Subject: Re: [NO]ILL - was bahamut

On 30 Oct 99, at 18:29, Doug Philips wrote:

> Gillian Wiseman indited:
>
> +Our library has a terrible time keeping books on origami, calligraphy, the
> +occult, witchcraft,ghosts, GED, and karate, to name a few topics that come
> +readily to mind! they all grow little feet and wander out the door.
>
> Pardon my curiosity, but I've always wondered ...since the library knows who
> borrows the books (that's presumably how they send out recall and overdue
> notices), are these books that are stolen from the shelves, or is the library
> just not in a position to punish those who never return the books?

I believe that in the libraries around here [SW Virginia], books go
'missing' when someone tries to find them and they're not there --- if
someone checks it out and doesn't return it, they have other ways to
notate that [and to hassle the person to return it].  Note that a book
can be 'missing' for a lot of reasons: misfiled, fell behind a bookcase,
got routed to another branch by mistake, got severely damanged [and so
discarded or 'remaindered'] and someone forgot to update the catalog,
etc.  Not all disappearances are theft...

  /Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
mailto:bernie@fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--





From: Jake Crowley <jakecrow@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 20:00
Subject: Re: Origami Deutschland Convention book

Hello,

Thanks for your help with Eric Joisel models, I am now wondering if anyone
out there has a copy of last year's Origami Deutschland Convention book? If
so, would you be willing to trade the book or some diagrams of joisel's from
it with  me? I would order the book, but to do that you have to be a member
of O. Deutschland, so it would be kind of expensive just to join for one
book. Thanks for any help you can give me!

Jake Crowley
jakecrow@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
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From: Eric Andersen <ema@NETSPACE.ORG>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 20:24
Subject: Re: Origami Mambo

On Sat, 30 Oct 1999, Katherine J. Meyer wrote:

>A little bit of Hull, instead of sex
                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Now what is that supposed to mean???

-Eric :-P
origami@netspace.org

/=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=\
\   Eric Andersen                                       /
/    Mathematics, Music             ~  ~ __o            \
\     and Origami                 ~  ~ _-\<'_           /
/      ema@netspace.org        ~    ~ (_)/ (_)          \
\=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=/
         *** http://www.paperfolding.com ***





From: "Katherine J. Meyer" <kathy@SILENTWORLD.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 20:47
Subject: Re: Origami Mambo

Sometimes folding a model can be as good as sex!
The folding sequence is so rewarding.

also....it rhymes with sex, hehehe.

Eric Andersen wrote:

> On Sat, 30 Oct 1999, Katherine J. Meyer wrote:
>
> >A little bit of Hull, instead of sex
>                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>
> Now what is that supposed to mean???





From: Russell Sutherland <RGS467@AOL.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 20:51
Subject: Re: Origami Mambo

In a message dated 10/30/99 7:24:12 PM Central Daylight Time,
ema@NETSPACE.ORG writes:

<< >A little bit of Hull, instead of sex
                        ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 Now what is that supposed to mean???

 -Eric :-P
 origami@netspace.org >>

I much prefer my line... ALL NITE LONG!

Your humble origami slut,

Russell Sutherland

DARE TO FOLD!!!!!!!





From: Carol Martinson <carolm47@YAHOO.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 21:02
Subject: Disappearing Library Origami Books

Both Dorothy Engleman and Gillian Wiseman are absolutely correct about books
     disappearing from libraries, particularly origami books.  In the library
     where I work books about some subjects regularly disappear.  I heard the
     person working with the craft bo
 ks describe it as a self-weeding collection, meaning that you never have the
     problem of the shelves filling up as you continue to buy new books.

About 5 years ago I donated 35 origami books to the library.  Wondering if I
     had chosen origami books that people would actually use, I tracked what
     happened to them.  A year later there were only 4 left in the collection.
     Many had been checked out, neve
  to return.  Some only went out one time before being added to someone's
     personal collection.  The rest simply disappeared without a trace.

Carol Martinson





From: Karen Reeds <reeds@OPENIX.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 22:07
Subject: another magical moment with paper frogs

Yestwerday afternoon I sat waiting in a beauty salon for my daughter. Also
there was a mother with 4 kids, all waiting for the 5th to have his
haircut! The kids were pretty patient, but I could see that they were
reaching their limits. I started fishing out the magazine subscription
cards and folding little frogs (the ones with a waterbomb base for the head
and front legs, the remainder pleated as back legs). That caught the
attention of the 9 yr old and 4 year old. The 9 year old followed my
directions, while I encouraged the 4 year old just to fold any way she
liked. Watching us, she folded three irregular corners, turned the card
over and made it hop just as satisfactorily as the "real" origami.  She was
all the happier because she'd made a BIG frog while her big brother had
only made a little one.
Karen
reeds@openix.com





From: Russell Sutherland <RGS467@AOL.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 22:10
Subject: Re: Origami Mambo

Of course I was referring to ORIGAMI all nite long, unfortunately.

>>> I much prefer my line... ALL NITE LONG!

 >>>  Russell

DARE TO FOLD!!!





From: Paul Chabot <OrKman15@AOL.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 22:47
Subject: Re: Bahamut

maybe it's because i'm 17 but......
If you have not been a hermit for the past 9 some odd years, then two little
things called SuperNintendo and Sony Playstation have been out. And on those
platforms is a series called Final Fantasy. Odds are you have seen
commercials about Final Fantasy 8 from Japanese publisher, Squaresoft. Well,
starting with Final Fantasy 4 in 91 bahamut has been a prominent summoned
beast and boss. Here are just a few pictures and Screen shots from the
various Final Fantasies. He is one of the longest lasting characters in the
entire Final Fantasy series, and is pretty popular in Japan. This Version of
bahamut is most likely the one from Final Fantasy 7. <A
HREF="http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff5/graphics/summons/bahamut2.jpg">http:
//www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff5/graphics/summons/bahamut2.jpg</A>  <A
HREF="http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff8/graphics/screen/spell/bahamut5.jpg">
http://www.rpgamer.com/games/ff/ff8/graphics/screen/spell/bahamut5.jpg</A>  <A
 HREF="http://www.ffnet.net/ff6/images/bahamut.jpg">http://www.ffnet.net/ff6/i
mages/bahamut.jpg</A>  <A
HREF="http://www.ffnet.net/ff7/images/large/BAHAMUT.JPG">http://www.ffnet.net/
ff7/images/large/BAHAMUT.JPG</A>
http://www.rpgclassics.com/ff5/callermagic.html
http://www.thorf.co.uk/ragnarok/finalfantasyvi/espers.html
http://www.ffnet.net/ff8/gf-bahamut.html

hope this answers your question.....

Paul Chabot





From: Dorothy Engleman <FoldingCA@WEBTV.NET>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 22:47
Subject: Re: Disappearing Library Origami Books

Have library theft and vandalism  increased over the years?  I was
taught that libraries were temples of learning, so this is all very
dispiriting to me.

Dorothy





From: James Storrs <italic@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 23:06
Subject: Re: Disappearing Library Origami Books

All elements of society have to deal with the unlawful and the
irresponsible.  Libraries which claim inordinate numbers of stolen or
mutilated items might look to their administrative policies and the
vigilance of the staff.
   In reading the dire charges that origami books are particular targets for
thieves and the knife-happy, I begin to wonder if a correlation between
interest in paperfolding and sociopathic tendencies is being suggested?
James

> Have library theft and vandalism  increased over the years?  I was
> taught that libraries were temples of learning, so this is all very
> dispiriting to me.
>
> Dorothy





From: "Katherine J. Meyer" <kathy@SILENTWORLD.COM>
Date: 30 Oct 1999 23:25
Subject: Re: Origami Mambo

I'm glad you mentioned that.... of course the song refers to these
artist's creations and not the person themselves. Although obvious to
me, it could be taken the wrong way.

I think I would like to revise the Hull line to read "as good as" in
place of "instead of" and "crumble" should be "crumple" to reflect the
recent thread. oops.

I admire all of these artists and hope I didn't offend anyone. Well, I
hope you are all having fun with it....it's just a silly song.

Glad you like your line Russ :)

Kathy  <*))))><

Russell Sutherland wrote:

> Of course I was referring to ORIGAMI all nite long, unfortunately.
>
> >>> I much prefer my line... ALL NITE LONG!
>
>  >>>  Russell
>
> DARE TO FOLD!!!





From: Carol Martinson <carolm47@YAHOO.COM>
Date: 31 Oct 1999 03:06
Subject: Re: NO - ILL & Disappearing Books

Bernie Cosell listed many reasons why library books can go missing that are not
     caused by theft, but neither Gillian nor I am talking about those.  Books
     misfiled, slipped behind shelves, or missent to other branches eventually
     are found, fairly quickly i
  a search is instituted due to a missing report.  Books that are discarded due
     to damage or other reasons are never reported missing.  We know what
     happened to them.  Electronic catalogs are updated instantly.  These are
     not the circumstances Gillian and
 I are referring to.

David Whitbeck may indeed be fortunate to live in an area where few of the
     library books are damaged or lost.  Where I work, books that are
     discovered to have been damaged or mutilated in some way are discarded
     from the collection.  Only in rare instances
 are books with razored out pictures or torn out pages kept in the collection.
     Books that are overdue or missing only show up on the patron's catalog as
     checked out.  My understanding is that when our new catalog comes up the
     entire record for missing an
  long overdue books will be suppressed on the patron's catalog.  So how will
     the average person know just how much disappears?

As to what Doug Philips was wondering about "punishing" those who never return
     books, well, it is tough.  In my library system once a person accumulates
     $10 in fines and/or in value of overdue materials, he cannot check out
     more materials.  After it reach
 s $100 the City Attorney's office sends out a letter threatening prosecution
     or to turn the case over to a colection agency.  It is never done.  Their
     office considers the amounts too small to be worth their effort and the
     bad publicity that would come f
 om also prosecuting children, the elderly, the disadvantaged, etc.  A few
     months ago it was discovered that one person had checked out and not
     returned several thousand dollars worth of materials.  He had checked them
     out over a period of 2-3 days in sev
 ral trips to the main library and the larger branches.  That person still is
     coming in regularly to use the internet.

One more actual case will vividly illustrate the problem of the books that
     simply disappear.  Because of the way the Twin Cities developed, there is
     not one centralized library system.  Instead there are two different city
     systems and 5 different county s
 stems, each with 10 to 25 branches.  About 3-4 years ago a small branch from
     one of the smaller counties actually caught a man stealing library books.
     A search warrant was issued and $250,000 worth of stolen library books
     taken from all 7 systems were d
 scovered, a quarter of a million dollars worth of books that had never been
     checked out.  He was never prosecuted, and three months later he was back
     checking out books from the various systems.  The reason the County
     Attorney said he wasn't going to pro
 ecute was that it wasn't as if the man had taken anything important.  They
     were only library books.  If a quarter of a million dollars worth of
     materials had been stolen from a business would that have been ignored?

Oh, by the way, lest I be labelled a complete cynic, I have donated more
     origami books to the library and also local history books, another high
     theft area that Gillian didn't mention in her most accurate list of
     disappearing books.

Carol Martinson





From: Julia Palffy <jupalffy@BLUEWIN.CH>
Date: 31 Oct 1999 04:12
Subject: Re: [NO]ILL - was bahamut

Doug wrote:

Pardon my curiosity, but I've always wondered ...since the library knows
who
borrows the books (that's presumably how they send out recall and overdue
notices), are these books that are stolen from the shelves, or is the
library
just not in a position to punish those who never return the books?

I've been both a borrower and a librarian... so experience has taught me
that books can vanish in various ways without leaving a record.
When people borrow books and don't return them, or lose them or damage
them, you have a record and you can make them pay for it. But it is not
impossible for a book to get stolen, lost or damaged (without even leaving
the library!) anonymously...

Julia Palffy
Zug, Switzerland
jupalffy@bluewin.ch

__________
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I   There are more possibilities than you imagine.





From: Julia Palffy <jupalffy@BLUEWIN.CH>
Date: 31 Oct 1999 04:12
Subject: Re: Do patrons everywhere deface books?

Well, it does happen... and other patrons usually don't see the damage
(unless they are the person to discover it) because your faithful librarian
takes his/her job seriously, puts the damaged book out of circulation and
gets a new copy.

But I think (at least, I hope!) most patrons are decent people who are
capable of taking care of borrowed books! Though you'd be surprised at the
excuses you get for damaged books...

Julia Palffy
Zug, Switzerland
jupalffy@bluewin.ch

__________
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I   There are more possibilities than you imagine.





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 31 Oct 1999 04:29
Subject: Re: NO - ILL & Disappearing Books

Carol I have a question: how do thieves manage to smuggle them out of the
library when the unchecked books aren't demagnetised?

David





From: Dave Stephenson <EruditusD@AOL.COM>
Date: 31 Oct 1999 07:56
Subject: NO: I need help with Lotus Word Pro 97

Hi,
   Can anyone tell me how to put a border round a page in Word Pro, I don't
have the package but a friend of mine needs to know how.

Sorry to trouble the list with something that in no way relates to origami.

Thanks
     Dave-S





From: Dave Mitchell <davemitchell@MIZUSHOBAI.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Date: 31 Oct 1999 08:04
Subject: Trading Off

Ronald Koh wrote:

>Aha - an interesting observation, and a refreshing change of
>terminology! Inelegant - I like that! :o).

I prefer elegant but ....

Seriously though, I guess that's the difference between a provocative
statement and a carefully phrased one. Elegance is one of the most important
qualities I look for in a paperfold. And, of course, its nothing to do with
simplicity or complexity. Paperfolds of both types can be elegant. Or not.

It's also - as Ronald clearly states - very little to do with the final
appearance of the model, certainly as I would use the word. Elegance - a
better word than beauty just as inelegance is a better word than ugliness -
is about structure. And the process of folding by which the result is
reached. Of course, the result is important, but the route is more important
still - and not only because an elegant route will tend to produce a
visually appealing result

>The pleasure is derived from working through the thinking and
>problem-solving-processes each new and pre-determined model entails, and
>the objective is to create that model within the constraints of the
>chosen parameters.

I understand that to many creators origami design is primarily a
puzzle-solving activity. What I've been trying to highlight is that this
isn't the only approach - or even necessarily the most productive one. You
don't need to begin with an idea of what the finished fold should be in
order to design. You can equally well begin with an interesting
configuration of folds and see how they can be developed. Neither of these
approaches requires more skill than the other. They are just different ways
of working. However, in my view, the exploratory approach is more likely to
yield elegant designs than the puzzle-solving approach. More likely, not in
any way certain to.

I see no reason why the two approaches can't be meshed but unfortunately the
divide between them seems to be widening rather than coming together. This
growing dichotomy concerns me. Origami seems to be in danger of becoming two
entirely unrelated crafts/arts which just both happen to involve folding
paper.

> (Snip) .... who objected to sticky out bits. I think they're wonderful.
Even in origami.

>And I fully agree. So, with 'inelegance', can we assume that 'ugly' no
>longer applies? :o)

Yes. As I've explained, 'ugly' was just a deliberately provocative word. But
even in saying 'ugly' I wasn't only talking about the final appearance of
the model since I entirely agree with you that final appearance is not the
most important thing.

I also fully agree with you that the challenge of origami is to accept the
constraints and live within them (you call these rules but I prefer the word
ethics - since ethics are more flexible and adaptable than rules). That's
why I have difficulty, for instance, with crumpling as a creative medium -
since crumpling a piece of paper produces a surface which is essentially
stretchy (which the original flat, plain surface wasn't.) It's still
origami - but much of the design challenge has gone.

Of course, once you have rules (or ethics) you can also have great fun
breaking them! So I'm off to crumple now ....

Dave Mitchell
