




From: collin weber <coljwebwhs@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:16
Subject: Re: [Talk to me]

>From: Anine Cleve <anine20@USA.NET>
>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: [Talk to me]
>Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:05:08 -0400
>
>Can't you go on mIRC? I'm here once again like I am everyday and I can't go
>to
>Yahoo (some java crap with this computer).
>So if anyone wanna chat, I'm on mIRC! #Origami & #Roxette
>
>collin weber <coljwebwhs@HOTMAIL.COM> wrote:
>Anyone interested in some origami chat this week.  I finally have off of
>scool and I can stay up chatting the night away.  Come to The yahoo club
>called paper wonders.  I never get a chance to talk to other folders since
>none live in my area and I just have to share my thoughts with someone.
>
>Thanks
>Collin

Could you please tell me how to sign up and get on to mIRC I woulf love to
chat and I don't really care where.

Collin Weber

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:18
Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice

Gillian Wiseman wrote:
> There are also a few videos that give basics. They might be easier to learn
> from.
Ah yes, folding from videos might work well too. I hear that Michael
LaFosse is being praised for his videos, but I don't own one myself. His
site is at www.origamido.com. However, that still doesn't help you with
understanding the diagrams. A good beginner book that explains all the
symbols and moves in detail is John Montroll's book "Teach yourself
origami". I bought it myself (although I'm not a beginner anymore), and
I really like it.

Matthias





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:20
Subject: Re: That art thing (was Re: QUESTION FOR MARC K.)

Michael Antonette wrote:
>    I tried that. Kept folding the agenda sheets into little animals...
LOL!





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:22
Subject: Re: Knives (was RE: I want a paper cutter!)

Michael Antonette wrote:
>    But big knives are so much more impressive... I've had my share of
> experiences at airports etc because of them too. I wonder if one could get a
> licence to carry one for paper cutting purposes?... ;)

Him: "So, you're a paperfolder huh?"
Me: "Yes sir!"
Him: "May I see your carry permit, please?"
Me: "Yes, it's right here!"
Him: "But you folded it into a Lang ant!"
Me: "Uh-oh..."

Matthias





From: dan newman <dnewman@CAPITAL.NET>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:26
Subject: Re: Bringing O. to Life / Other books

i purchased origami sea life two weeks ago to make the dolphin for my sister,
i am very happy with the book

dan

Scott Cramer wrote:

> Christina wonders:
>
> >Do I need Origami Sea Life RIGHT NOW ?
>
>    What a silly question! Of course you need it. How you have survived
> without it until now is a mystery. You can't call yourself a folder until
> you have made a Blackdevil Angler or two- everyone else on the list can do
> it from memory! Order it today, with next day delivery.
>
>    Get O. for the Connoisseur while your at it, there are a few basics in
> there, too.
>
> Scott scram@landmarknet.net





From: Anine Cleve <anine20@USA.NET>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:44
Subject: Re: [Re: Knives (was RE: I want a paper cutter!)]

Hi again everybody!

>What you need is a penknife!
>
>I use mine to cut paper if I need to, a 4 inch or less blade is perfectly
>legal to carry and if you keep it reasonably sharp it can produce a very
>clean cut either by folding & cutting or cutting along a ruler.

I did try that once with a normal knife instead of a penknife (since I am
still to find a nice looking one) and it made the edges fluffy and not sharp
as you would wat the edges on your origami model to be. Or does your knife
make the edges sharp?

I have now bought a ruler with a round knife attached to it so you put the
ruler on the paper and push the black "knifeholder" from one side to the other
and the paper is cut! I have to practise though since the knife doesn't cut
exactly on the edge of the ruler so I have to put it a bit away from the drawn
line. So far I've cut beside the drawn line everytime :/ Hope I can do it one
day!
I guess this solution is the same as someone suggested I could find at a
fabric shop? Thanks for the advice! I found it in a bookstore!

Some of you suggested using a knife and a ruler! I have tried that! With that
kind of knife which someone describes that some Origami artist used (the one
where you can change blades) but I can't cut along the ruler all the time! I
slowly cut away from it! No matter what I do! That's why I was looking for
another solution!
Anyway, thanks for the MANY replies I got and don't stop even if I thanked you
;)
All the best!
                Anine

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:45
Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice

At 18:17 99/10/28 +0200, Matthias wrote:
>Ah yes, folding from videos might work well too. I hear that Michael
>LaFosse is being praised for his videos, but I don't own one myself. His
>site is at www.origamido.com. However, that still doesn't help you with
>understanding the diagrams.

Michael's videos are wonderful. The only thing lacking is some good
background music. 8)

>A good beginner book that explains all the
>symbols and moves in detail is John Montroll's book "Teach yourself
>origami". I bought it myself (although I'm not a beginner anymore), and
>I really like it.

Three books that I always recommend for beginners are:

1. The Complete Origami Course by Paul Jackson
2. Step-by-step Origami (or "Essential Origami" in the USA) by Steve &
Megumi Biddle
3. Origami Animals by Robert Lang

I'm pretty sure that the first one is out of print, though...

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Brewster <beav4@CHESAPEAKE.NET>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:50
Subject: Re: Hermann van Goubergen (was Re: Crumpling)

Please contact me at my home computer... not here.  Home: roklaydee@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:50:43 -0400
Subject: Re: Hermann van Goubergen (was Re: Crumpling)

>Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA> sez
>
>>Limited to one a year because he wants to come up with something unique
and
>>ground-breaking each time.
>
>I think this is slightly misleading - my understanding was that he comes
>up with quite a few models, but rejects many as inadequate and only
>displays those he considers worthy.
>
>This self-critical analysis of one's work is a lesson to some who
>diagram & "release" any old fold. I know, in the past I did that very
>thing ;(
>
>That my published output has since dropped to just above zero may well
>be related to this!
>
>all the best,
>
>Nick Robinson
>
>email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
>homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - now featuring soda
syphons!
>BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/





From: Brewster <beav4@CHESAPEAKE.NET>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:50
Subject: Re: Friend

Please contact me at my home computer, not here.  My home is
roklaydee@aol.com
-----Original Message-----
From: Elsje vd Ploeg <evdploeg@BETUWE.NET>
To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 12:50:45 -0400
Subject: Re: Friend

>Hallo Tommy,
>------------------------
>I like folds that are easy and self explanatory.
>------------------------
>Welcome and nice to hear from you
>I also like simple easy folds.
>What are your favorites?
>
>xxxxxxxxelsje
>http://www.betuwe.net/pepi/





From: Anine Cleve <anine20@USA.NET>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:50
Subject: Re: [Re: [Talk to me]]

On Dalnet :)
Hope to see you there!

Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH> wrote:
On Dalnet, or on a different net?

Matthias

Anine Cleve wrote:
> So if anyone wanna chat, I'm on mIRC! #Origami & #Roxette

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: Gillian Wiseman <gilladian@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:50
Subject: Re: NO: Knives [Re: I want a paper cutter!]

I have a small knife on my keyring which sounds similar to what you
describe. The blade is about 1 1/2" long, almost triangular in shape because
it is about 1" wide at the base. It is set into a small flat handle, and
pressure fits into a sheath that has holes cut into it so bits of the blade
show through. It is a "Tekna" brand. I bought it at a kitchen and knife shop
about 10 years ago. As I remember, they had longer ones - up to six inches??
also.

Good Luck finding something that works!

Gillian

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Scott Cramer <scram@LANDMARKNET.NET>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:59
Subject: Obsession (was:That art thing (was QUESTION FOR MARC K.)

Matthias wrote:

>>Maybe you should consider joining Paperfolders Anonymous...

and Michael Antonette replied:

>   I tried that. Kept folding the agenda sheets into little animals...

    I know just where you are coming from, and getting help is tough.

    My significant other is tolerant of much of what I fold, as long as I
don't litter the house with it too much ("time to cull the herd" is how she
hints at when 'too much' is getting close).

    I discovered (inspired by the Fold-a-Day calendar thread) that the pages
of my Far Side daily calendar made excellent 60 degree units (like the ones
for Five Intersecting Tetrahedra, only wider). The tetrahedron took 6 days,
and was accepted, if not appreciated, the octahedron took 12 and was
tolerated.

    Well, I patiently collected units for the whole month of October, but
when presented with a magnificent 30 unit icosahedron the size of a
basketball, the reaction was muted, at best. Something about counter space,
I think.

    I refrained from making any comments about 'art appreciation' but I was
stung, nonetheless.

    Does anyone else have this problem?

Scott scram@landmarknet.net





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:59
Subject: Re: Knives (was RE: I want a paper cutter!)

>Michael Antonette wrote:
>>    But big knives are so much more impressive... I've had my share of
>> experiences at airports etc because of them too. I wonder if one could get a
>> licence to carry one for paper cutting purposes?... ;)
>
>Him: "So, you're a paperfolder huh?"
>Me: "Yes sir!"
>Him: "May I see your carry permit, please?"
>Me: "Yes, it's right here!"
>Him: "But you folded it into a Lang ant!"
>Me: "Uh-oh..."
>
>
>
>Matthias

or

Him: "Excuse me sir but why are you carrying a Machete?"
Me: "I'm a paperfolder, I use it to cut paper honest!"
Him: "Then why is it stained with blood?"
Me: "Err papercuts?"
Him: "Sir I'm going to have to ask you to follow me."
[hands back passport, looks up and in horror]
Him: ahh!  You folded it into a devil!
Me: [clutching the machete tighter] I can't myself, I can't stop folding!
Him: [eyeing the devil and the machete, sweat on his brow]: let's just take
it easy now.
Me: I'm sorry I can't !!!!!!!!!!!!!

[nobody knows what happened next but it was just horrible!]

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:59
Subject: Re: creating

Hey Xandra you know those Plank units you don't like?  I knew a person who
took up origami and on the first day folded and assembled that monstrosity.
So it can't be that hard.  Just try harder!

There are alot of good modular books out.  Modular Polyhedra, virtually
anything by Tomoko Fuse, which I've got to say that her boxes are way cool
and her Spirals are amazing!  Origami Tanteidan has Yoshino's star up on
their page.  There is alot of good modular origami out there.  On Mette
Peterson's page there is free diagrams to one of her rings and it's fun.

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 13:01
Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice

>
>1. The Complete Origami Course by Paul Jackson
>2. Step-by-step Origami (or "Essential Origami" in the USA) by Steve &
>Megumi Biddle
>3. Origami Animals by Robert Lang
>
>I'm pretty sure that the first one is out of print, though...
>

I'm pretty sure the last one is as well.

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 13:03
Subject: Re: Friend

>Please contact me at my home computer, not here.  My home is
>roklaydee@aol.com

Why don't change your subscription to that address instead of sending weird
emails.  Who are you talking to anyway??????

David





From: Anine Cleve <anine20@USA.NET>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 13:05
Subject: Re: [Stiffer paper for boxes (was Re: I want a paper cutter!)]

Bernie Cosell <bernie@FANTASYFARM.COM> wrote:

Another alternative to messing with wrapping paper is to use *wallpaper*.
At SEOF a few years back Mark K was slicing off wallpaper squares for a
group of us (using a fearsome looking just-plain (but sharp!) knife) and
we worked through making a Fuse box and it is *wonderfully* stiff... it
is a *real* box.

  /Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
mailto:bernie@fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--

Great idea!!! I didn't think of that! Thanks!

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 13:07
Subject: Re: Friend

At 10:05 99/10/28 -0700, you wrote:
>>Please contact me at my home computer, not here.  My home is
>>roklaydee@aol.com
>
>Why don't change your subscription to that address instead of sending weird
>emails.  Who are you talking to anyway??????

It looks like "Brewster" is on vacation and his work computer is
automatically answering emails with that message. I'll set his subscription
to NOMAIL and hopefully we won't get any more such messages.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Anine Cleve <anine20@USA.NET>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 13:07
Subject: Re: [Re: [Re: QUESTION FOR MARC K.]]

Douglas Zander <dzander@SOLARIA.SOL.NET> wrote:
>
> >===== Original Message From Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> =====
> >>But when you start making crane flowers (see

http://www.papierfalten.de/en/conventions/hildesheim1999.html  ) or
                                                             ^^^
try this, you may have had the right parenthesis within the URL itself.
----

Thanks that helped :)

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 13:17
Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice

Joseph Wu wrote:
> Michael's videos are wonderful. The only thing lacking is some good
> background music. 8)

No, no, no. This way you can provide your own background music. Much better!
Michael's videos are wonderful.

> 1. The Complete Origami Course by Paul Jackson
> 2. Step-by-step Origami (or "Essential Origami" in the USA) by Steve &
> Megumi Biddle
> 3. Origami Animals by Robert Lang

Not bad choices. My current recommendations include:
1. Origami Plain and Simple by Robert Neale and Thomas Hull
        (or Russian Origami by Sergei Afonkin and Thomas Hull)
(Tom's writing style is gentle, but fun and friendly)
2. Paper Creations : Easy-To-Make Paperfolding Projects by Gay Merrill Gross
(I'd prefer to recommend her book: Art of Origami, but that is out of print. I
don't think Paper Creations has exactly the same stuff, but its close enough).
3. Teach Yourself Origami by John Montroll.

-D'gou





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 14:11
Subject: Batman - copyright warning

As a general warning, don't post your Batman diagrams publicly - Jeff
Beynon had all kinds of legal trouble when OUSA (as was) asked for
permission to publish a simple BM mask of his. Corporations like DC
comics & Disney will *zelously* protect their copyright....

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - now featuring soda syphons!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/





From: "Katherine J. Meyer" <kathy@SILENTWORLD.COM>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 14:15
Subject: Re: Talk to me

The Origami Chat on Yahoo can be found here:
http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/paperwonders

Chats are every Tuesday Night at 8pm CST

Hope to see you there.

Kathy  <*))))><

Xandra Leong wrote:

> Hmm I never knew Yahoo had such thing, how do I get to that club?





From: DORIGAMI@AOL.COM
Date: 28 Oct 1999 14:42
Subject: Re: Flexagons

Regaarding Flexagons, Fred Rohm once sent me a wonderful flexagon which he
showed me at a convention.  He folded 16 squares and cut out the middle 4.  I
have the directions still and a model of his flexagon.  He numbered each
remaining square and then by flexing, things happened.  I can find it again
and send it to someone to figure out if they send me their address.  Does
anyone of the older generation remember this flexagon?  Dorigami





From: Julia Palffy <jupalffy@BLUEWIN.CH>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 14:57
Subject: Re: NO:Knives

Kitchen knives for origami?!?!?!

I use a Swiss Army Penknife (can't guarantee the brand, but looks like it
well enough as far as I'm concerned...) - what else? :)
They are small and safe enough to carry around in a purse, can include a
few useful extra tools (depending on which model you choose), great for
creasing as well as cutting, and are not available only in Swiss souvenir
shops - I believe they're popular abroad too?

Julia Palffy
Zug, Switzerland
jupalffy@bluewin.ch

__________
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I
I__I__I__I__I   There are more possibilities than you imagine.





From: collin weber <coljwebwhs@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 15:01
Subject:

Can anyone make it to the yahoo chat paperwonders tonight at 8:00 I would
really like to chat

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 15:03
Subject: Hyperbolic Parabaloid...

I've done a bit of poking and don't have a picture, nor did I find a picture,
easily, on the web. Tom Hull's web page has some stuff that uses the same
basic technique, but applied to tessellated (repeated like tiles on a floor,
or hexagons in a beehive) structures.

Since I've gotten some requests for this model, having mentioned it on the
list, here is what I know:

I have seen this model given various attributions, and I will defer to others
the factual history of this model. I can say that I found the following from
an OUSA model index search:

Hyperbolic Parabola by John Emmet (Intermediate, uses diagonal base)
Complete Origami Course by Paul Jackson page 138
Paper used is sq

Hyperbolic Parabola by Don Sigal (Intermediate, uses waterbomb base)
1989 by T. Cheng et al page 231
Paper used is sq

The basic idea is quite simple:
        1. Start with a square.
        2. Fold a waterbomb base.
        3. Through all of the layers divide the side of the waterbomb into equal
sections (that is, make the creases run parallel to the long "bottom" edge of
the waterbomb base, and you can divide the "height" of the water bomb into any
number of creases, though the easiest numbers to use are powers of two (2,
very boring, 4, ok, 8, nice, 16 cool, 32 awesome, .... ).
        4. Open up the paper, you'll see two diagonal creases that divide the
     square
into four triangles. The tips of those triangles meet at the corners of the
square and at the center of the square. You'll also see that you have a set of
creases that define a nested set of squares, all centered about the center of
the paper.
        5. Starting from the outside, fold the outermost square as valley folds,
allowing the corners to poke out. The next outermost square should be mountain
folds, the next one valley folds. You will be effectively making a series of
nested sinks, by accordian folding all four sides simultaneously (this is
easier than it sounds). Some creases you'll have to reverse, some you won't.
        6. The more divisions you create in step 3, the neater the final model.
     Once
you know the crease pattern, you can fold it on each of the triangles
separately, and you'll get a crisper model than folding the waterbomb base
form, which folds many layers at once.
        7. Once all the collapses are done, you can let the paper open up, and
     two of
the points (corners of the original square) will pop "up" and two will (or can
be coaxed into) pop "down."
        8. If you make it with a hexagon, you'll have three points up and three
     down,
enough to allow the model to stand on its own.

Best of luck. Ask if any of the steps are troublesome or unclear.

-D'gou





From: Dave Stephenson <EruditusD@AOL.COM>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 15:36
Subject: NO: Re: Bringing Origami to Life

> Hi David,
>  Yes, I was fortunate enough to receive my copy last week.  It was from
> Chapters.
>  Lynda

That's it rub salt into the wound.... Sob... Sob...

Dave-(May my anguished screams follow you to the depths of hell)-S





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 16:03
Subject: Origami Sighting

Well I was reading Otherland: River of Blue Fire by Tad Williams when guess
what?

"The world had been turned into origami . . . . This time all around her
and even inside of her, color, shape, sound, light, folded in on
themselves."

It's on page 451 of the paperback.  The ... was to skip through some stuff.

David





From: Maarten van Gelder <VGELDER@KVI.nl>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 16:26
Subject: PROP The Origami detective (part 05)

PROP the Origami detective (part 5)

A week later her colleague Peter came in again and said:

The story is repeating:
 We have just caught a criminal and found a piece of paper on him.
 There is some code on it but we can't figure out what that means.
 We think it has something to do with a burglary.
 Maybe it tells us what is stolen.
 Do you have any idea?

He showed the paper. This is what was on it:

       B
                        1
   A       C       D -------> B

       D

      B,D

   -       -       D=0.4(B-A)     M=1/2(A-C)
   A       C       E=0.4(B-C)     F=0.8(B-M)

        1               1
   C -------> D    A -------> E

        1
   D -------> F    B -------> F
                        6

Prop looked at the paper and again she smiled.

She took a sheet of Origami paper and ...

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Well, how did she manage? Try and solve this puzzle.

But please don't yell the solution over the list.  Everyone should have some
time to think this over.

You may send me your solution via private email: vgelder@kvi.nl

Next month (maybe some later) I'll put my solution in the archives.  And also
give the next part of this story.

This text and the previous solution(s) are also published in the archives.
Have a look at:

   http://www.rug.nl/rugcis/rc/ftp/origami/prop/index.htm





From: Jennifer Campbell <CampbellJ@DFO-MPO.GC.CA>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 16:30
Subject: Another bill fold trick

Hi everyone,

David Lister's message "Re: How to Crumple!" about reducing the apparent
area of a bill by making multiple tiny pleats parallel to both edges
reminded me of another bill fold trick we used to do as kids. Perhaps it is
that leaflet from the magic shop called  "Bill Folds" that David Lister
spoke of.

You need a bill that has a full-on, full-face portrait on it. Canadian money
is great for this and the only kind I have any experience with. All it takes
is three creases, each one is parallel to the short edge of the bill. You
make two mountain folds, each lined up with the outer corner of an eye. You
make a valley fold down the centre of the nose/lips. Then let the bill relax
so the creases aren't too deep

Now the fun part. Tilt the bill slightly towards you or away from you and
look at the face. Depending on the angle of the bill, how deep the creases
are, how parallel they are, etc. the expression of the face appears to
change. It goes from a dignified portrait to a silly smile, a worried look,
a demonic grin... I still find it hilarious and do this once in a while to
amuse people. Anyone else heard of this trick? Some other Canadians
evidently do, as once in a while I come across a bill that has this crease
pattern on it.

Jennifer Campbell





From: Xandra Leong <Xandra@SOCAL.RR.COM>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 16:32
Subject: Re: Talk to me

Is my name really that interesting? :P Actually my full name is Alexandra
but you can call me Xandra =) I like that better shorter.. my name is way
too long.. well I really have no idea about any club.. I am rather clueless
on that..
Xandra

----- Original Message -----
From: "collin weber" <coljwebwhs@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 9:03 AM
Subject: Re: Talk to me

Sorry Xandra (that is such and interesting name), but I can't remember how I
got into it.  Somone gave me the link directly to the signing in page and I
just filled out the information.  If anyone out there knows how to join the
club please tell Xandra.  I suppose I should have thought of this before I
sent the email.

Thanks
Collin

PS  Thanks for answering all the messages I put up last night.

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Xandra Leong <Xandra@SOCAL.RR.COM>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 16:41
Subject: Re: creating

thanx I think I will take a look at those work then.. =) but I am just
saying I hate those modular where they glue and cut a whole bunch and is not
really origami when you do that.. drives me a little crazy too.. :P
Xandra

----- Original Message -----
From: "david whitbeck" <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Thursday, October 28, 1999 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: creating

Hey Xandra you know those Plank units you don't like?  I knew a person who
took up origami and on the first day folded and assembled that monstrosity.
So it can't be that hard.  Just try harder!

There are alot of good modular books out.  Modular Polyhedra, virtually
anything by Tomoko Fuse, which I've got to say that her boxes are way cool
and her Spirals are amazing!  Origami Tanteidan has Yoshino's star up on
their page.  There is alot of good modular origami out there.  On Mette
Peterson's page there is free diagrams to one of her rings and it's fun.

David





From: Lisa Hodsdon <Lisa_Hodsdon@HMCO.COM>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 16:41
Subject: Re: Another bill fold trick

>You need a bill that has a full-on, full-face portrait on it.

The newly redesigned US bills (the $20 anyway) have appropriate
portraits for doing this. The creases are not parallel, but that doesn't
seem to matter. Jackson smirking isn't *quite* as foolish looking as
the Queen smiling, but pretty amusing none-the-less.

You can do it with George on the US $1, but you need a newish
bill 'cause he's a little small.





From: Robby/Laura <morassi@ZEN.IT>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 16:47
Subject: IRC Chat

Hi all !

Yesterday we tried a chat on IRC (Internet Relay Chat), creating a channel
#origami on the DALnet network. Not bad for this first trial. We have
chatted for about an hour, five people under the cryptic nicknames of
Robbix (me), Elaina, crzyhorse, boyohboy17, and Dzeta5162....... all
Origami-listers !

I hope to try again next week. If anybody needs help on how to join the
crew, e-mail me freely.

Roberto / Robbix





From: collin weber <coljwebwhs@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 17:23
Subject: Re: IRC Chat

>From: Robby/Laura <morassi@ZEN.IT>
>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: IRC Chat
>Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 21:14:55 +0200
>
>Hi all !
>
>Yesterday we tried a chat on IRC (Internet Relay Chat), creating a channel
>#origami on the DALnet network. Not bad for this first trial. We have
>chatted for about an hour, five people under the cryptic nicknames of
>Robbix (me), Elaina, crzyhorse, boyohboy17, and Dzeta5162....... all
>Origami-listers !
>
>I hope to try again next week. If anybody needs help on how to join the
>crew, e-mail me freely.
>
>Roberto / Robbix

Could you tell me how to join abd when you meet to chat

Thanks
Collin

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Nancy Hulen <nhulen@SOCKETS.NET>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 19:27
Subject: Re: origami alphabet ?

Folding Money volume 2 has a nice alphabet.

Nancy
nhulen@sockets.net





From: Jake Crowley <jakecrow@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 19:37
Subject: Re: Eric Joisel..Book?

Hi everyone,

I was just wondering if Eric Joisel has a book of any kind. Are any of his
models diagrammed in any form? I got his rat model from a friend, but thats
all I have found of his that's diagrammed. Any books, bookelts, pamphlets,
convention books, magazines, with models of his in them? I would love to
find some more of his models to fold, they are so unique and creative
looking. Thanks alot if you can help!

Jake Crowley
jakecrow@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Rachel Katz <mandrk@MAIL.PB.NET>
Date: 28 Oct 1999 23:19
Subject: Re: Hermann van Goubergen (was Re: Crumpling)

Come on Nick, you are too hard on yourself. At "Folding Sunday" at the museum
in New York, we all folded your neat bat. And, you once said that you do real
well when deadlines draw near. So, set a deadline and get to work!

Rachel Katz
Origami - it's not just for squares!





From: Foldmaster@AOL.COM
Date: 29 Oct 1999 00:38
Subject: October JOAS & Tanteidan Book Orders

Dear All,

Here is a list of the people who have sent me money to order books and JOAS
membership from Mr. Yamaguchi:  (random order)

Donna Walcavage
Jonathan Picker
David Harmon
Marsha Du Pre
Mark McKinnon
Eileen Tan
Kathryn Paulsen
Ros Joyce
Tony Cheng
Giang Dinh
Carlos Alberto Furuti
Linda Lawson
Christina Nester

The order will be sent out to Mr. Yamaguchi tomorrow morning.  You should
begin to receive your orders 3-4 weeks from now.  If it takes longer than 5
weeks, please let me know.

Yours,

June Sakamoto

PS:  You won't be disappointed with your orders.  Just ask anyone who has
these books!  :)





From: Katharina Grif <katharina.grif@UIBK.AC.AT>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 03:02
Subject: Re: Kawahata-Yoda

Dear Sebastian !
Tank you for url for the web site with wonderful Yoda model. Do you know if
it diagrammed and when yes, then where?

Katharina





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 03:33
Subject: Re: creating

>===== Original Message From Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> =====
>saying I hate those modular where they glue and cut a whole bunch and is not
>really origami when you do that.. drives me a little crazy too.. :P
>Xandra

Uhmm... if it's not real origami, is it Unreal origami then?

Matthias, gaming





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 03:38
Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice

>===== Original Message From Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> =====
>Three books that I always recommend for beginners are:
>
>1. The Complete Origami Course by Paul Jackson
>2. Step-by-step Origami (or "Essential Origami" in the USA) by Steve &
>Megumi Biddle
>3. Origami Animals by Robert Lang
>
>I'm pretty sure that the first one is out of print, though...

Eww, recommending out-of-print books, that's nasty :-). Are you testing the
newbie's frustration tolerance, or what?

Matthias





From: Maarten van Gelder <VGELDER@KVI.nl>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 03:38
Subject: Re: Crumple folding

On the last BOS convention in Bristol were some mice in the
exhibition. They were crumple folds.
Looked very good.

See:
http://www.rug.nl/rugcis/rc/ftp/origami/photos/bos-1999/bos1999-mice.jpg

I don't know who folded them.

--
Maarten van Gelder    KVI - Groningen, Netherlands    vgelder@kvi.nl





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 03:44
Subject: Re: Eric Joisel..Book?

>===== Original Message From Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> =====
>I was just wondering if Eric Joisel has a book of any kind. Are any of his
>models diagrammed in any form? I got his rat model from a friend, but thats
>all I have found of his that's diagrammed. Any books, bookelts, pamphlets,
>convention books, magazines, with models of his in them? I would love to
>find some more of his models to fold, they are so unique and creative
>looking. Thanks alot if you can help!

I don't think he has a book (yet), but many of his models are indeed
diagrammed and available.

His rat, rooster, and a dragon are in the convention book of last year's
Origami Deutschland convention. Their homepage is at www.papierfalten.de,
you'll have to check there for availability.

Matthias





From: Allan findlay <a_findlay@EXCHANGE.CREATIONS.CO.UK>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 03:53
Subject: NO: RE: Knives (was RE: I want a paper cutter!)

>But big knives are so much more impressive...

If impressive is what you want, try carrying one of these around....

http://www.swords-n-stuff.com/map-menu.html

I doubt if you'll get into trouble at airports with them, you probably wont
get that far on your journey ;-P

--------------------------
        Allan           (a_findlay@exchange.creations.co.uk)





From: Allan findlay <a_findlay@EXCHANGE.CREATIONS.CO.UK>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 04:09
Subject: Re: [Re: Knives (was RE: I want a paper cutter!)]

Anine Cleve wrote:
> I did try that once with a normal knife instead
> of a penknife (since I am still to find a nice
> looking one) and it made the edges fluffy and not
> sharp as you would wat the edges on your origami
> model to be. Or does your knife make the edges sharp?

I keep my blades sharp (we have a sharpening steel in the kitchen at home)
and I get a very clean edge.

--------------------------
        Allan           (a_findlay@exchange.creations.co.uk)





From: Christina Nester <tinan@ISICMAIL.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 04:45
Subject: Scorpion by Montroll??

Okay, I'm confused now... I did a search for "Scorpion" in the Model Index on
     the OUSA page. Among other models, it showed that there was a scorpion in
     "Animal Origami for the Enthusiast", p. 82, I believe... Well, in my copy,
     there's a spider on that pag
 ... Now I'm wondering - is there a scorpion in a different edition, or maybe
     it's in a different book, or is it just flat out a mistake in the data
     base?? Does anyone know if there's even a scorpion by Montroll?

Thanks for your help, as always,

All the best,

        Tina

P.S.: And thanks for all your advice on Origami Sea Life - I did end up
     ordering it:-) Problem is, now I'll have to wait about 2 weeks, till
     Amazon Germany manages to get a hold of it.......





From: Anine Cleve <anine20@USA.NET>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 05:07
Subject: Re: [Re: IRC Chat]

Hi Collin!

> Could you tell me how to join abd when you meet to chat

> Thanks
> Collin

Go to www.mirc.co.uk and click on Download mIRC, then you choose which server
you think would be the fastest for you to download from and you can see above
the servernames which programme you should have on the computer (32- or
16-bit) and that's it! You can find a lot of information on the homepage (URL
above) about how to use it.
And once again everyone I'm on #Origami Dalnet alone.. so come on in! My nick
is Josefin!
Hope to see ya there soon!
                               Anine

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: Anine Cleve <anine20@USA.NET>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 07:16
Subject: Re: [Re: Beginner looking for advice]

>1. The Complete Origami Course by Paul Jackson

Hmmm I've noticed we have a Paul Jackson on this list.. might it be the same
person?

Anine

____________________________________________________________________
Get free email and a permanent address at http://www.netaddress.com/?N=1





From: Dave Mitchell <davemitchell@MIZUSHOBAI.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 08:21
Subject: Flexagons

Dorigami wrote:

>Fred Rohm once sent me a wonderful flexagon which he
>showed me at a convention.  He folded 16 squares and cut out the middle 4.
I
>have the directions still and a model of his flexagon.  He numbered each
>remaining square and then by flexing, things happened

I assume this is the flexagon you make just by folding in each of the sides
in turn into the centre space?

(If this is the one I'm thinking of a simple map of the faces and flexes
resembles a figure of eight.)

If so, this form is still well-known in origami circles - although Rohm's
particular treatment of it may not be.

I have discovered that if you crease a much larger grid of squares and cut
out concentric rings, starting with the one detailed here, each ring can be
folded into a flexagon of a similar type. The maps are similar too. As the
number of squares in the strip increases so does the number of loops in the
map.

Not easy to describe in words ...

Is there a self-help organisation for ex-lurkers who can't resist replying
to messages these days?

Dave Mitchell





From: BoyohBoy17@AOL.COM
Date: 29 Oct 1999 08:29
Subject: Re: Eric Joisel..Book?

At his class at the convention, he said that he didn't diagram his models for
     two reasons

1.  His models are mostly 3D and very hard to diagram.
2.  Every time he folds his models, he changes them.  All of his seahoreses at
     the convention display were all different.  He didn't teach his complete
     seahorse at the convention, only the base for it.  He did the same with
     the pangolean.  He taught how t
  make one scale and how to shape the model after you had foled thousands into
     one piece of paper.





From: Dave Morris <davidemile@GO.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 08:31
Subject: desktop pencil cup

Hello,
I've just joined the list.  Can anyone tell me where to find plans for an
     origami pen/pencil holder for my desk?

Thanks.

Dave.

http://www.go.com

________________________________________________________ ____
Get your Free GO Network Email address at http://mail.go.com





From: sychen@EROLS.COM
Date: 29 Oct 1999 08:53
Subject: Re: desktop pencil cup

The cool one available in the net is Pencil pot by Marc Vigo
Anglada. You can download it from
ftp://ftp.rug.nl/origami/models/boxes/index.htm

There are plenty of other container models. Just explore by yourself.

Have a nice FOLD!
Sy Chen

--- Original Message ---
Dave Morris <davidemile@GO.COM> Wrote on
        Fri, 29 Oct 1999 05:20:12 -0700
 ------------------
Hello,
I've just joined the list.  Can anyone tell me where to find
plans for an origami pen/pencil holder for my desk?

Thanks.

Dave.

http://www.go.com

________________________________________________________ ____
Get your Free GO Network Email address at http://mail.go.com

-----
Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html )
The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 10:26
Subject: Re: Crumple folding

Maarten van Gelder <VGELDER@KVI.NL> sez

>On the last BOS convention in Bristol were some mice in the
>exhibition. They were crumple folds.
>Looked very good.

They were by Mark Bolitho and featured in a BO magazine a few years
back. My own problem with their technique was that the crumples were to
some extent pre-creased, leading to an unnecessarily long sequence. They
could be made much simpler with a random crumple. They look great
though!

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - now featuring soda syphons!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 10:26
Subject: Re: Hermann van Goubergen (was Re: Crumpling)

Rachel Katz <mandrk@MAIL.PB.NET> sez

>So, set a deadline and get to work!

OK - deadline December 2001 - must invent another design by then ;)

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - now featuring soda syphons!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/





From: Paul Jackson <Mpjackson@BTINTERNET.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 10:28
Subject: Re: [Re: Beginner looking for advice]

>>1. The Complete Origami Course by Paul Jackson

>Hmmm I've noticed we have a Paul Jackson on this list.. might it be
the >same person?

>Anine

Hmmmm...there's a very deep philosophical point here.  It all
depends what you mean by 'same'.  Do you mean is he the same PJ today
that wrote the book in 1989, or do you mean is he......

(Help!  H-E-L-P!!  Someone get me out of that definitions thread!
Nurse,
pass me some of those sedatives.  I promise I'll swallow them this
time.)

Paul Jackson (for it is he)





From: Maarten van Gelder <VGELDER@KVI.nl>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 10:45
Subject: Re: Hermann van Goubergen (name correction)

Correction on the name:

His name is    Herman van Goubergen

He is Belgian (Flemish) and his given name is NOT German but Dutch.

--
Maarten van Gelder    KVI - Groningen, Netherlands    vgelder@kvi.nl





From: Andrew Daw <andrewd@REDAC.CO.UK>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 11:08
Subject: Re: Hermann van Goubergen (was Re: Crumpling)

How about a "monolith on the Moon" ? :O)

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Origami Mailing List [mailto:Origami@MIT.Edu]On Behalf Of Nick
> Robinson
> Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 10:39 AM
> To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject: Re: Hermann van Goubergen (was Re: Crumpling)
>
>
> Rachel Katz <mandrk@MAIL.PB.NET> sez
>
> >So, set a deadline and get to work!
>
> OK - deadline December 2001 - must invent another design by then ;)
>
> all the best,
>
> Nick Robinson
>
> email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
> homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - now featuring
> soda syphons!
> BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/





From: Rona Gurkewitz <GURKEWITZ@WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 11:25
Subject: Re: Flexagons

The flexagon that Dorigami refers to, as I understand it, a square
with the center cut out, sounds like a fold by Bob Neale that
I've never heard anyone mention.

Bob Neale has a fold that is equivalent to a Klein bottle with a
hole in it that starts out like the fold Dorigami describes.
That's all I can remember about it.

Rona





From: Florence Temko <Ftemko@AOL.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 11:52
Subject: Model

David Lister would like to seen an improvement on the word "model." I have
used the word "an origami" but realize this is even more controversial, esp.
in view of the ongoing  discussion about origami versus paperfolding. Best
from Florence.





From: Xandra Leong <Xandra@SOCAL.RR.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 12:13
Subject: Re: creating

I don't know but those people name it origami which is not really right..
Xandra

----- Original Message -----
From: "Matthias Gutfeldt" <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 12:31 AM
Subject: Re: creating

>===== Original Message From Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> =====
>saying I hate those modular where they glue and cut a whole bunch and is
not
>really origami when you do that.. drives me a little crazy too.. :P
>Xandra

Uhmm... if it's not real origami, is it Unreal origami then?

Matthias, gaming





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 12:24
Subject: Re: Kawahata-Yoda

>Dear Sebastian !
>Tank you for url for the web site with wonderful Yoda model. Do you know if
>it diagrammed and when yes, then where?
>
>Katharina

I know I'm not Sebastian but I thought I would reply.  It's in one of the
Origami Tanteidan Convention books.

David





From: Scott Cramer <scram@LANDMARKNET.NET>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 12:26
Subject: Re: creating

Matthias offered:

>Uhmm... if it's not real origami, is it Unreal origami then?

    How about Fauxrigami?

Scott scram@landmarknet.net





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 12:30
Subject: Re: creating

>Matthias offered:
>
>>Uhmm... if it's not real origami, is it Unreal origami then?
>
>    How about Fauxrigami?
>
>Scott scram@landmarknet.net

Perhaps it is surreal origami.  We simply have to realize that on another
plane cutting the paper ceases to be cutting and becomes folding, perhaps
the dreamworld, or in are larger surreality it was never harmful to the
paper to cut it, or perhaps by cutting the paper we are cutting are souls

the surreal David





From: Gillian Wiseman <gilladian@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 13:05
Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice

Matthias,
Libraries don't care if a book is out of print!!! Interlibrary Loan
it!!!!!!!

Gillian
>
> >===== Original Message From Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU> =====
> >Three books that I always recommend for beginners are:
> >
> >1. The Complete Origami Course by Paul Jackson
> >2. Step-by-step Origami (or "Essential Origami" in the USA) by Steve &
> >Megumi Biddle
> >3. Origami Animals by Robert Lang
> >
> >I'm pretty sure that the first one is out of print, though...
>
>Eww, recommending out-of-print books, that's nasty :-). Are you testing the
>newbie's frustration tolerance, or what?
>
>Matthias

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Julie Rhodes <kettir@GEOCITIES.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 14:04
Subject: Wanted: origami icons and graphics

I'm doing an Origami theme for Win95/98.  What I need are suitable origami
icons and graphics, bitmaps for backgrounds, and so on.  Does anyone have
anything like this?  Thanks for any pointers.
----------------------------------------------------------------<*>---
kettir at   |   In the village where I grew up nothing seems the same
geocities   |   It's just the patterns that remain, an empty shell;
dot com     |   There's a strangeness in the air you feel too well.





From: Javier Cubero <JCubero@XL.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 14:30
Subject: Re: those intersecting tetrahedrons again

After all the furor, I checked out the website at work.  Unable to wait,
I used copier paper in white, gray, goldenrod, and blue, and a pizza
flyer that was printed on green heavyweight paper. :-)  (I was desperate
to fold!)
I made each piece 1.5"x4.5", and once a tetrahedron was assembled had no
trouble at all with it staying together. YMMV.
Now, I had trouble keeping the joints of my brain from flying apart
while trying to visualize how each succeeding tetrahedron went into the
pattern, but that's different. :-)

I'm going to do another tonight out of kami in better colors...

Javier Cubero
jcubero@xl.com





From: Xandra Leong <Xandra@SOCAL.RR.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 14:33
Subject: Re: creating

maybe maybe ah.. but it was just my opinion anyway.. =)

----- Original Message -----
From: "david whitbeck" <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Sent: Friday, October 29, 1999 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: creating

>Matthias offered:
>
>>Uhmm... if it's not real origami, is it Unreal origami then?
>
>    How about Fauxrigami?
>
>Scott scram@landmarknet.net

Perhaps it is surreal origami.  We simply have to realize that on another
plane cutting the paper ceases to be cutting and becomes folding, perhaps
the dreamworld, or in are larger surreality it was never harmful to the
paper to cut it, or perhaps by cutting the paper we are cutting are soulsS

the surreal David





From: Papa Joe <papajoe@CHORUS.NET>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 14:34
Subject: $ bill Viking Helmet

I have finished diagraming the "$Viking Helmet".
(2 JPG pics 800X600)

If anyone is interested in the diagrams just E-mail me.

Also anyone want to host these diagrams on their
web pages? (Joseph? Maarten? any Scandinavian web sites?)

Happy Folding!

Joe                 papajoe@chorus.net





From: Valerie Kull <VKull@ENVIRONCORP.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 15:04
Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice

I used to have trouble reading origami instructions, too. I finally learned
how from a beginners book that showed the symbols and dotted lines over
photographs, rather than line drawings. With a photo, I could finally tell
which folds are folds vs creases vs raw edges. That was the first time I
could do a step, compare my results to the next picture, and feel confident
that I had done the right thing. And the 3D perspective is essential! That
book showed some really useful stuff (no, sorry, don't recall the name and
don't have it here. It was probably called "Origami", or something else
unremarkable), like what a petal fold looks like when it's half finished. If
you can find some diagrams like that, I'd highly recommend them. I don't
know what kind of Web resources there are like that, but I know many
beginners books use this technique.

Valerie Kull

P.S. Oh, once I got used to the notation from using the photos, I haven't
had to go back. I can read regular line drawings just fine now, thanks.





From: Dave Stephenson <EruditusD@AOL.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 15:06
Subject: Re: Kawahata-Yoda

I think the yodas in its in tandendian 3

Dave-S





From: Dave Stephenson <EruditusD@AOL.COM>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 15:16
Subject: Re: desktop pencil cup

Try oriland, I seem to remember there being diagrams for one there, to find
it just enter oriland on altavista.

Dave-S





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 16:58
Subject: Re: creating

david whitbeck wrote:
> Perhaps it is surreal origami.  We simply have to realize that on another
> plane cutting the paper ceases to be cutting and becomes folding, perhaps
> the dreamworld, or in are larger surreality it was never harmful to the
> paper to cut it, or perhaps by cutting the paper we are cutting are souls

And maybe on still another plane it would be considered a sacrilege to
destroy the perfect plane by folding it...

Matthias





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 17:00
Subject: Re: Beginner looking for advice

Gillian Wiseman wrote:
>
> Matthias,
> Libraries don't care if a book is out of print!!! Interlibrary Loan
> it!!!!!!!
You have a point, even with fewer exclamation marks. But depending on
how long the book has been out of print, a library might not have it
anymore. Good books do tend to disappear miraculously. And having to
give it back after just a few weeks isn't quite the same thing as owning
it, anyway.

Matthias





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 17:06
Subject: Re: Hermann van Goubergen (was Re: Crumpling)

Nick Robinson wrote:
> OK - deadline December 2001 - must invent another design by then ;)
Not bloody likely, you've still got that book to publish!

Matthias





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 17:08
Subject: Re: creating

Xandra Leong wrote:
>
> I don't know but those people name it origami which is not really right..
I think there are quite a few people who would disagree with your
definition of origami :-).

Matthias





From: Ronald Koh <ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 18:52
Subject: Re: Trading Off (was Hermann van Goubergen/was Crumpling)

Dave Mitchell wrote:

 What I tried to do was point out that
> technical virtuosity isn't everything and that there is often a trade-off
> between complexity and elegance. Kawahata's models are often inelegant - and
> that is simply because he is attempting to push the technical boundaries.
> It's a trade-off - you simply can't have everything!
>
Aha - an interesting observation, and a refreshing change of
terminology! Inelegant - I like that! :o).

Isn't some degree of trading off inevitable in origami except, perhaps,
for some modular, geometric or abstract (and don't ask me to define
'abstract'!) designs? In simpler models, detail is sacrificed for
simplicity. The more details are incorporated, the more simplicity goes
out the window.

There are probably as many reasons why people enjoy origami as there are
people on this list, with as many preferences for origami 'type'
(modulars, living subjects, fantasy, simple, intermediate, complex, etc)
and opinions on likes and dislikes, etc. And this is what makes origami
all the more attractive; we can have as widely differing preferences and
opinions as we want, yet still share a common sense of enjoyment in
origami. Well, at least, we are supposed to be enjoying it.

The joy I get from origami is from the challenges it provides me.
Primarily, I enjoying creating new models, and these new models
inevitably reflect my other love - for nature and animal life. I view
origami very much like chess. In chess, there are specific rules on how
each piece can be moved, and the game is restricted to the playing area
of the chessboard. Yet each game has to be thought through and played
differently to achieve a common objective - to win. The enjoyment or
pleasure is in the thinking and problem-solving processes that each game
provides, and within the rules of the game and playing area.

In origami, my chessboard is a single square of paper, and the rules I
apply to myself are the usual precision folding only, no cuts, no glue,
etc, etc, etc. (you can see that I am a fan of 'The King & I'). The
pleasure is derived from working through the thinking and
problem-solving-processes each new and pre-determined model entails, and
the objective is to create that model within the constraints of the
chosen parameters. The parameters within which I choose to fold serves
simply to enhance the enjoyment by making it just that much more
difficult. And while a significant level of importance is placed to make
the final product visually appealing, the degree of appeal will be
compromised by the parameters under which the model was created, simply
because, to me, the greater joy is in the chase, not the catch. If the
finished work is appreciated, it's a bonus.

I cannot speak for Kawahata, but I suspect that many folders with
approximate preferences in subject matter and creative parameters feel
the same way. Of course, greater visual appeal would in all likelihood
be possible by changing the parameters. But this reduces the challenge
as the creator sees it, and may be less desireable - to the creator -
than a compromise in visual appeal.

Not everyone places visual appeal as the paramount or only aspect in
origami worth pursuing. Comparing the precisely folded work of Kawahata
(and other creative folders of complex models who choose to work within
similar parameters) with crumple 'origami', 'paperfolding' (as opposed
to origami), etc purely on the basis of visual appeal is about as
objective as judging the performance of a Rolls Royce automobile in the
ocean.
>
> (Snip) .... who objected to sticky out bits. I think they're wonderful. Even
     in origami.

And I fully agree. So, with 'inelegance', can we assume that 'ugly' no
longer applies? :o)

Visual appeal is highly subjective at its best, and prejudiced at its
worst. And THAT is the TRUTH.

Ronald Koh.





From: "John R. Mizell" <superj@BELLSOUTH.NET>
Date: 29 Oct 1999 18:52
Subject: Re: $ bill Viking Helmet

        Hey Papa Joe! I wouldn't mind checking out those $ diagrams.
    I just looove money folding!

        John
        superj@bellsouth.net

Papa Joe wrote:

> I have finished diagraming the "$Viking Helmet".
> (2 JPG pics 800X600)
>
> If anyone is interested in the diagrams just E-mail me.
>
> Also anyone want to host these diagrams on their
> web pages? (Joseph? Maarten? any Scandinavian web sites?)
>
> Happy Folding!
>
> Joe                 papajoe@chorus.net
