




From: Michael Janssen-Gibson <mig@ISD.CANBERRA.EDU.AU>
Date: 11 Oct 1999 20:40
Subject: Re: Squirrel's!!

The squirrel can be found in Tanteidan no. 3 (these publications seem to
be popping up quite regularly lately). It is well worth tracking down
other Hideo Komatsu designs, as he is quite special.

These include a wonderful horned owl, tiger, kingfisher, and a clown mask.
If there are any others I have not listed I would be most interested to
hear about them (including sources). The models I have listed are either
included in the Tanteidan convention books or the Tanteidan magazines.

regards

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Michael Janssen-Gibson                 e-mail: mig@isd.canberra.edu.au
Applied Science
ISD, Library                   phone/voice mail: +61 6 (06)  201 5665
University of Canberra
PO Box 1 Belconnen, ACT 2616





From: Allan findlay <a_findlay@EXCHANGE.CREATIONS.CO.UK>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 03:45
Subject: Re: Squirrel's!!

There is a squirrel diagram by Perry Bailey somewhere on the internet......

--------------------------
        Allan           (a_findlay@exchange.creations.co.uk)

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Janssen-Gibson [mailto:mig@ISD.CANBERRA.EDU.AU]
Sent: 12 October 1999 01:39
To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Squirrel's!!

The squirrel can be found in Tanteidan no. 3 (these publications seem to
be popping up quite regularly lately). It is well worth tracking down
other Hideo Komatsu designs, as he is quite special.

These include a wonderful horned owl, tiger, kingfisher, and a clown mask.
If there are any others I have not listed I would be most interested to
hear about them (including sources). The models I have listed are either
included in the Tanteidan convention books or the Tanteidan magazines.

regards

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Michael Janssen-Gibson                 e-mail: mig@isd.canberra.edu.au
Applied Science
ISD, Library                   phone/voice mail: +61 6 (06)  201 5665
University of Canberra
PO Box 1 Belconnen, ACT 2616





From: "Chamberlain, Clare" <Clare.Chamberlain@HEALTH.WA.GOV.AU>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 03:56
Subject: Australian folds

For those of us who like 'pretty' folds rather than complex ones, I have
always thought the challenge of folding Australian flowers more challenging
than our fauna.  Here in Western Australia, we have the widest diversity of
plants in the world except of South Africa (once joined to WA)in an
incredibly harsh climate.  These include orchids that mimic numerous
insects, flowers pollinated by tiny mammals, and the State emblem the bright
red and vivid green Kangaroo Paw, pollinated by birds nd indescribable in
words.  I'll try and find a site if any one is interested.

And while I have you here, I was delighted the other day to find an origami
book in the discount book shop - a rare finding indeed............but
disappointed when I realised that the  book, entitled KOKIGAMI, was not
exactly family folding, but rather, decorative appendages for our male
members (!)and not even origami but paper cut-outs!!  Even at $4 I was too
embarrassed to buy it ;-)





From: Dave Mitchell <davemitchell@MIZUSHOBAI.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 05:55
Subject: Flexagons

Michael Janssen-Gibson wrote:

>I was looking at Paul Jackson's BOS publication on the weekend,
>and saw a couple of square flexagons that revealed four different faces.
>Paul also demonstrated how the flexagon could be used to tell a story of
>caterpillars growing into butterflies (I think?), using the different
>flexagon faces.

Nice to see Paul's ground-breaking work surfacing again. There's still very
little in print about flexagons - which is a shame. My own book 'The Magic
of Flexagons' (from Tarquin) has lots of new material in it - but I was
disappointed that the publisher thought of it as a book for children - while
I was trying to write a book for thinking adults!

(Incidentally - despite it's title - Paul's booklet contains three entirely
different kinds of folding novelty. A few flexagons per se (which by
definition are not only folded but also twisted and interwoven - ahem, well,
usually anyway), some 'rolling rings' - of which Iris Walker's is an
antecedent of Yami's Fireworks- and Philip Noble's butterfly-saga mentioned
above.)

If anyone else on the list knows of other good sources of information on
flexagons - beyond the hexaflexagon series and basic tetraflexagon stage -
I'd be really interested to learn about them.

Thanks.

Dave Mitchell





From: Rob Hudson <FashFold@AOL.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 09:23
Subject: Re: Squirrel's!!

One of the BOS magazines from last year also has diagrams for the squirrel.





From: Kenny1414@AOL.COM
Date: 12 Oct 1999 09:23
Subject: [NO] Kokigami (was Re: Australian folds)

In a message dated 10/12/1999 3:57:15 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
Clare.Chamberlain@HEALTH.WA.GOV.AU writes:

> And while I have you here, I was delighted the other day to find an origami
>  book in the discount book shop - a rare finding indeed............but
>  disappointed when I realised that the  book, entitled KOKIGAMI, was not
>  exactly family folding

Oh, yes, THAT book. Subtitled something like "the art of the little paper
hat",
wasn't it? It's meant as a funny joke, not a serious craft book. I happened
across it too, and bought a copy, as a curiosity for my collection of
papercraft
books.

It does tend to get accidentally filed in the Children's books, along with
the
Pop-Up Kama Sutra, so I hear. Haven't managed to snag that pop-up for my
collection.

Did find a pop-up book a while ago from a series of children's pop-up books,
whose central character I think is this little white mouse. Cute! The
particular
book I picked up was something about the mouse wandering thru a haunted
castle.

Aloha,
Kenneth Kawamura





From: Kenny1414@AOL.COM
Date: 12 Oct 1999 09:23
Subject: Re: Flexagons

In a message dated 10/12/1999 5:56:30 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
davemitchell@MIZUSHOBAI.FREESERVE.CO.UK writes:

> If anyone else on the list knows of other good sources of information on
>  flexagons - beyond the hexaflexagon series and basic tetraflexagon stage -
>  I'd be really interested to learn about them.

I first learned about them from Martin Gardner's Mathematical Games column
in the magazine Scientific American (see also the several volumes of his
collected columns put out under various titles as paperbacks, sorry, I don't
have the list handy).

He also wrote about the Flexatube, and the two odd tetraflexagons,
one from a 4x4 grid with a cross-slit in the center 2x2, and the other
from a 4x4 with the center 2x2 cut out, but you had to cut, fold, and tape
the ring back together.

And he wrote about the trick of turning a leather (or paper) strip with two
slits in it, not to the end, into a three-part braid; a really cute
topological trick.
I can never remember the sequence of twists, and end up using trial and
error.
Makes nice bookmarks; nicer if you use two sheets of contrasting colors,
and shape the ends of the strip appropriately.

I was once lucky enough to find a copy of a small book on Flexagons,
which went into quite a bit of detail on the theory of the Hexaflexagons,
or so I remember.  Unfortunately, over a decade ago, someone asked
me what a Flexagon was, after I'd mentioned it, and I was dumb
enough to loan him the book by mail. It got lost, and never returned.
Never seen another copy. *sigh*.

You might want to look at the "rotating ring of tetrahedra" in the book
"Mathematical Models" by Cundy and Rollett, Oxford University Press,
I think. It's a prototypical rolling ring.

I once was startled to see one set up as an advertising display,
just standing in a store window flexing away. It took a while before
I accepted that at the left and right of the ring of six tetrahedra,
the two horizontal edges were just going round in circles, so
the motor was driving clear circles connected to the rotating edges.
Wonder who came up with that?

Aloha,
Kenneth M. Kawamura





From: "Mark Y. McKinnon" <mym@LUCENT.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 09:37
Subject: Re: ORIGAMI Digest - 10 Oct 1999 to 11 Oct 1999 (#1999-33)

Dorothy,

With respect to the new "PAPER", I live in New Jersey and
only got it today, Tuesday. Bulk mail can sure travel slow.

In general they need more models to fold. Two just isn't enough.
Otherwise it's great. One of the main reason I still run to the mailbox.

Lorenzo,

With respect to Dover Book's Fax number, you don't need to
worry. You don't need to order the books for Dover directly.
All of them are available from Amazon or Barns and Noble.
The main advantage of ordering from Dover is that their ship
and handling prices cannot be beat.

Mark





From: Scott Cramer <scram@LANDMARKNET.NET>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 09:42
Subject: Braided strips

Kenneth Kawamura writes:

>And he wrote about the trick of turning a leather (or paper) strip with two
>slits in it, not to the end, into a three-part braid; a really cute
topological trick.
>I can never remember the sequence of twists, and end up using trial and
>error.

    There are diagrams for doing this with a $ bill in Robert Neale's
'Folding Money Fooling'. Of course, you have to make two slits in the bill,
which is illegal.

    Ironic, isn't it? It's a folding exercise, but it reduces circulation.

Scott scram@landmarknet.net
Littleton, NH USA





From: "Dr. Joel M. Hoffman" <joel@EXC.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 09:48
Subject: Squirrel's!!

>hear about them (including sources). The models I have listed are either
>included in the Tanteidan convention books or the Tanteidan magazines.

How does one obtain a Tanteidan convention book?

-Joel
(joel@exc.com)





From: "Askinazi, Brett" <brett@HAGERHINGE.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 10:02
Subject: Re: Squirrel's!!

Go to www.sasugabooks.com they have them for sale there, along with tons of
other fabulous origami books.

They offer good and reliable mailing service, I recommend this bookstore
very highly.

Brett

-----Original Message-----
From: Dr. Joel M. Hoffman [mailto:joel@EXC.COM]
Sent: Tuesday, October 12, 1999 8:42 AM
To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Squirrel's!!

>hear about them (including sources). The models I have listed are either
>included in the Tanteidan convention books or the Tanteidan magazines.

How does one obtain a Tanteidan convention book?

-Joel
(joel@exc.com)





From: Scott Cramer <scram@LANDMARKNET.NET>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 10:08
Subject: Tanteidan books

Joel asks:

>How does one obtain a Tanteidan convention book?

    Sasuga books www.sasugabooks.com has a few back issues of Tanteidan
convention books.

    June Sakamoto has made it easy to order current books directly from the
publisher in Japan, but I don't know if earlier year's books are available
that way...

Scott scram@landmarknet.net
Littleton, NH USA





From: Gerard Blais <gblais@NORTELNETWORKS.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 11:40
Subject: Re: Orchid translation

Actually, the official page of Origami-Montreal has moved to
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Den/8802/
You might want to change your bookmark.

Gerard

>  From:        K. A. Lundberg [SMTP:klundber@MNSINC.COM]
>
>  The diagrams can be found at the Origami-Montreal site:
>
>  http://www.ecn.ulaval.ca/~pgon/origami/modeles/modeles.html





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 11:40
Subject: Re: Australian folds

>For those of us who like 'pretty' folds rather than complex ones,
Are you implying that complex folds are not pretty?
>
>And while I have you here, I was delighted the other day to find an origami
>book in the discount book shop - a rare finding indeed............but
>disappointed when I realised that the  book, entitled KOKIGAMI, was not
>exactly family folding, but rather, decorative appendages for our male
>members (!)and not even origami but paper cut-outs!!  Even at $4 I was too
>embarrassed to buy it ;-)

err what kind of bookstore where you in?

Anyway there needs to be more flower books!  I know that James Sakado wrote
one but are there others?

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 11:46
Subject: Re: Flexagons

About who created flexagons: Richard Feynman did when he was a graduate
student.  Flexagons are published in a Martin Gardner book amazingly enough
called Hexaflexagons and Other Mathematical Diversions : The First
Scientific American Book of Puzzles and Games

Happy folding!!!!!!!!

David





From: Ronald Koh <ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 12:14
Subject: Re: Australian folds

There are at least four books on origami flowers by Yoshihide Momotani
that I know of, i.e. Origami Flowers, Winter Flowers of Origami, Wild
Flowers and Flowers of Japan (the names of the last two may be wrong;
picking them from the top of my head). Pretty good books; probably among
the best books on origami flowers IMO.

I haven't seen James Sakoda's book on origami flowers though; would
appreciate some comments.

Cheers.

david whitbeck wrote:
>
> >For those of us who like 'pretty' folds rather than complex ones,
> Are you implying that complex folds are not pretty?
> >
> >And while I have you here, I was delighted the other day to find an origami
> >book in the discount book shop - a rare finding indeed............but
> >disappointed when I realised that the  book, entitled KOKIGAMI, was not
> >exactly family folding, but rather, decorative appendages for our male
> >members (!)and not even origami but paper cut-outs!!  Even at $4 I was too
> >embarrassed to buy it ;-)
>
> err what kind of bookstore where you in?
>
> Anyway there needs to be more flower books!  I know that James Sakado wrote
> one but are there others?
>
> David





From: Paul Jackson <Mpjackson@BTINTERNET.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 12:18
Subject: Re: Flexagons

By one of those pleasing co-incidences, Ian Harrison, the BOS Supplies
     Secretary, contacted me just the other day to say that my BOS 'Flexagons'
     booklet mentioned on this List recently, will soon be reprinted.

Paul Jackson





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 13:14
Subject: Re: Australian folds

Chamberlain, Clare <Clare.Chamberlain@HEALTH.WA.GOV.AU> sez

>decorative appendages for our male
>members

Sorry, members of what? The BOS?  Why should BOS members need any
decoration? They are mostly fine specimens - ask Penny...

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - now featuring soda syphons!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/





From: Tommy <twstevens@HOME.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 15:45
Subject: Re: Flexagons

david whitbeck wrote:
>
> About who created flexagons: Richard Feynman did when he was a graduate
> student.
[snip]

Richard Feynman did not create flexagons, at least not create in the
sense of originate. Rather, Flexagons were discovered by Arthur H.
Stone. Stone was a graduate student from England who was studying
mathematics at Princeton. The story of his discovery is retold briefly
on the following web site...
http://www.dtek.chalmers.se/~d3enar/Flexagon/index.html

However, Richard Feynman (a physics graduate student) who was a friend a
Stone and according to Martin Gardner part of a "Flexagon Committee"
that was formed to investigate the flexagons even further. Feynman and
John Tukey (another member of the "Flexagon Committee") worked out a
complete mathematical theory of flexagons in 1940.

So, Richard Feynman probably did create some flexagons and certainly was
an important contributor to the body of information about flexagons. He
just wasn't the first to flex.

Here are a few more web sites that have some information on flexagons.
(sorry, no information on flexagons beyond the hexaflexagon series and
basic tetraflexagon stage)

Kathryn Huxtable's Flexagon Page
http://www.kathrynhuxtable.com/Cgi-Bin/home.pl/flexagon/

Hexaflexagons
http://www.xnet.com/~aak/hexahexa.html

Flexagons
http://homepages.enterprise.net/drking/flexagons/index.html

Tommy





From: Sjaak Adriaanse <S.Adriaanse@INTER.NL.NET>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 16:04
Subject: Re: Sv:      Re: Golden Opportunity

At 12:11 +0200 08-10-1999, Thoki Yenn wrote:
>Sjaak Adriaanse wrote::
>
>>    I suppose part of the problem is that Golden Rectangles are not as easy
>>to make as A4 'silver' rectangles, but that shouldn't stop anyone from
>>exploring their use as an origami starting point.
>
>Dear Sjaak
>
>It is just as easy to make a Golden Rectangle
>>from an A4 as from an American Letter
>same method
>Have a look at http://www.thok.dk/amtogold.html

Dear Thoki,

thanks for this ingenious method. Still, you can buy A4 in every paper shop
on this side of the Atlantic so it has a definite advantage...

Greetings,
Sjaak

--------------------------------------------------------------
We perform the miracles.
                          Kate Bush





From: P Bailey <pbailey@OPENCOMINC.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 16:41
Subject: Re: Squirrel's!!

Allan findlay wrote:
>
> There is a squirrel diagram by Perry Bailey somewhere on the internet......

There is also a complex squirrel on the net at Andy Carpenters web page:

http://carpo.home.mindspring.com/diagrams.htm

Mine is intermediate to high intermediate and is on my web page listed
below.

--
"Each time he shifted gears he did it as if the Moment of Truth
had arrived in a bullfight"
H. Allen Smith "The Pig in the Barber Shop"

http://www.afgsoft.com/perry/           <--Website w/ diagrams!
Icq 23622644





From: "JacAlArt ." <jacalart@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 19:09
Subject: The Paper (Am I Alone In This?)

Once again, I'll probably piss off a bunch of people here -- but that's
okay. I just want to know if anyone else shares my feelings.

I was looking forward to receiving my new issue of The Paper now that Marc
K. is editing diagrams. (I love his stuff!) But once again, I was extremely
dissapointed with the diagrams. Both pieces were modular (or 'multi-piece'
for those of you so hung up on the definition of 'modular'). There were
great photos in the beginning. Why not have diagrams for those?! Lang's
Moose, Joisel's Pangolin, Mask, Sea Horse, Snail, or non-pictured Tortoise?
I know these particular models may not be diagrammed yet -- but what about
including more challenging models?! (Wasn't Joisel's Rat in a recent issue
of BOS?) A Chris Palmer tesselation? A Joseph Wu creation? Something by Marc
K or Jeremy S? One of the thousand diagrams published in French or Japanese
publications? Does OUSA actively scout and recruit diagrams -- or do they
just take whatever comes in?

I fold for fun -- for the challenge -- not physical therapy. Yes yes yes.
Simple models can be beautiful and challenging. We've all heard the rant.
Look at David D's Cobra. Simple! Only about 10 steps -- but tough to do
well. But why does OUSA consistently ignore technically challenging models?!

Does anybody else out there prefer traditional (excuse me -- pure) origami?
I mean a single uncut square (and a bit more challenging than a Candy
Dish?!)

Let's look at the last 10 issues of The Paper. Out of the 27 models, only
one was rated as complex. Marc K's Chessboard. There were, of course, 5
modulars and a pureland. I don't believe a model must be complex to be good
-- but come on here! Does anyone else feel unfulfilled with The Paper? I am
always pleased with my issue of BARF. I loved the ORU 'magazines' and still
enjoy my Tanteidan newsletters. Sadly, Robert Lang doesn't come out with a
book-a-month. (Too bad. I loved folding his Organist from the latest OUSA
Convention Annual.)

That's my rant. Just re-thinking any membership renewal. Anyone else?

(Just a note to those I've offended. Relax! This is just my opinion. It's
only paper. Don't take it so personally!)

~Jac

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Jake Crowley <jakecrow@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 19:34
Subject: Re: The Paper (Am I Alone In This?)

No, you are definitely not alone, I used to be a member of OUSA, but just
let my membership expire, partly because of The Paper. I have to agree with
you, it needs more complex diagrams, harder models, something nice-looking.
I aws also displeased with the service from OUSA (waiting a month for an
order to come gets annoying), but if The Paper had some good models in it,
maybe I would have remained a member. I dont think i could say it any better
that you already have so I wont try :)

Jake Crowley
jakecrow@hotmail.com

>From: "JacAlArt ." <jacalart@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: The Paper (Am I Alone In This?)
>Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:07:58 EDT
>
>Once again, I'll probably piss off a bunch of people here -- but that's
>okay. I just want to know if anyone else shares my feelings.
>
>I was looking forward to receiving my new issue of The Paper now that Marc
>K. is editing diagrams. (I love his stuff!) But once again, I was extremely
>dissapointed with the diagrams. Both pieces were modular (or 'multi-piece'
>for those of you so hung up on the definition of 'modular'). There were
>great photos in the beginning. Why not have diagrams for those?! Lang's
>Moose, Joisel's Pangolin, Mask, Sea Horse, Snail, or non-pictured Tortoise?
>I know these particular models may not be diagrammed yet -- but what about
>including more challenging models?! (Wasn't Joisel's Rat in a recent issue
>of BOS?) A Chris Palmer tesselation? A Joseph Wu creation? Something by
>Marc
>K or Jeremy S? One of the thousand diagrams published in French or Japanese
>publications? Does OUSA actively scout and recruit diagrams -- or do they
>just take whatever comes in?
>
>I fold for fun -- for the challenge -- not physical therapy. Yes yes yes.
>Simple models can be beautiful and challenging. We've all heard the rant.
>Look at David D's Cobra. Simple! Only about 10 steps -- but tough to do
>well. But why does OUSA consistently ignore technically challenging
>models?!
>
>Does anybody else out there prefer traditional (excuse me -- pure) origami?
>I mean a single uncut square (and a bit more challenging than a Candy
>Dish?!)
>
>Let's look at the last 10 issues of The Paper. Out of the 27 models, only
>one was rated as complex. Marc K's Chessboard. There were, of course, 5
>modulars and a pureland. I don't believe a model must be complex to be good
>-- but come on here! Does anyone else feel unfulfilled with The Paper? I am
>always pleased with my issue of BARF. I loved the ORU 'magazines' and still
>enjoy my Tanteidan newsletters. Sadly, Robert Lang doesn't come out with a
>book-a-month. (Too bad. I loved folding his Organist from the latest OUSA
>Convention Annual.)
>
>That's my rant. Just re-thinking any membership renewal. Anyone else?
>
>(Just a note to those I've offended. Relax! This is just my opinion. It's
>only paper. Don't take it so personally!)
>
>~Jac
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: collin weber <coljwebwhs@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 19:45
Subject: Re: Australian folds

>From: "Chamberlain, Clare" <Clare.Chamberlain@HEALTH.WA.GOV.AU>
>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Australian folds
>Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:56:01 +0800
>
>For those of us who like 'pretty' folds rather than complex ones, I have
>always thought the challenge of folding Australian flowers more challenging
>than our fauna.  Here in Western Australia, we have the widest diversity of
>plants in the world except of South Africa (once joined to WA)in an
>incredibly harsh climate.  These include orchids that mimic numerous
>insects, flowers pollinated by tiny mammals, and the State emblem the
>bright
>red and vivid green Kangaroo Paw, pollinated by birds nd indescribable in
>words.  I'll try and find a site if any one is interested.

I'm implying that you live in Australia and that you are pretty familiar
with Australian wildlife.  I'm very interested in Australian wildlife and I
have been folding it quite a bit.  So far I've come up with a walaby,
kangaroo, bilby, numbat, crocodile(alligator? I'm not sure which are common
in australia but I think one of them are.), dugong, Emu, tasmanian devil,
and a few more.  I'm working on a dingo and a wombat without much success.
Do you have any suggestions on animals especially more bird, that I could
attempt to fold? Or a good Website to go to look at picture of the wildlife.

Thanks,
Collin Weber

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Robert Allan Schwartz <notbob@TESSELLATION.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 19:52
Subject: A fuse by any other name

I love to build modular and unit origami, especially designs by Tomoko Fuse.

I also build and fly model rockets, and subscribe to a rocketry news group.

So when I saw the news post titled "Fuse question", I wondered who in model
rocketry land was asking about modular origami ... :-)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Allan Schwartz     | voice (617) 499-9470
PMB 354                   | fax   (617) 249-0330
955 Massachusetts Ave.    | email notbob@tessellation.com
Cambridge, MA 02139-3180  | URL   http://www.tessellation.com/index.html





From: Robert Allan Schwartz <notbob@TESSELLATION.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 20:02
Subject: Re: Flexagons

>If anyone else on the list knows of other good sources of information on
>flexagons - beyond the hexaflexagon series and basic tetraflexagon stage -
>I'd be really interested to learn about them.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Dave Mitchell

Try contacting Peter Messeer at pmesser@EXECPC.COM - I believe he has a
bibliography for flexagons. Let me know what you discover, I'm also
interested in flexagons.

Robert

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Allan Schwartz     | voice (617) 499-9470
PMB 354                   | fax   (617) 249-0330
955 Massachusetts Ave.    | email notbob@tessellation.com
Cambridge, MA 02139-3180  | URL   http://www.tessellation.com/index.html





From: Robert Allan Schwartz <notbob@TESSELLATION.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 20:06
Subject: Re: Flexagons

>    By one of those pleasing co-incidences, Ian  Harrison, the BOS
>Supplies Secretary, contacted me just the other day to say  that my BOS
>'Flexagons' booklet mentioned on this List recently, will soon  be
>reprinted.   Paul Jackson

Please let us know when it is available - I want one!

Roert

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Allan Schwartz     | voice (617) 499-9470
PMB 354                   | fax   (617) 249-0330
955 Massachusetts Ave.    | email notbob@tessellation.com
Cambridge, MA 02139-3180  | URL   http://www.tessellation.com/index.html





From: Robert Allan Schwartz <notbob@TESSELLATION.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 20:06
Subject: Re: Flexagons

>About who created flexagons: Richard Feynman did when he was a graduate
>student.  Flexagons are published in a Martin Gardner book amazingly enough
>called Hexaflexagons and Other Mathematical Diversions : The First
>Scientific American Book of Puzzles and Games

Actually, I believe flexagons were invented by another person, I can't
think of his name right now, but he was trying to convert
metric-dimensioned paper into US-dimensioned paper, and ended up ripping
off a long thin strip, which he played with, and accidentally discovered
flexagons.

Robert

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Robert Allan Schwartz     | voice (617) 499-9470
PMB 354                   | fax   (617) 249-0330
955 Massachusetts Ave.    | email notbob@tessellation.com
Cambridge, MA 02139-3180  | URL   http://www.tessellation.com/index.html





From: Wendi Curtis <rebelgami@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 20:38
Subject: Re: The Paper (Am I Alone In This?)

I too agree that there is a lack of diversity in diagrams OUSA offers in the
paper.  I suspect perhaps one of the reasons there is a lack of "substance"
in their publication is that many of the good diagrams are presented to the
overseas groups for publication in their magazine(s).  A possible reason for
this, is to gain recognition for their work.  This recognition could lead to
a possible free trip sometime in the future.  What does OUSA have to offer?
I have a lot of respect for the designers and diagrammers of models.  I also
believe those who submit diagrams freely should receive some kind of reward.
  Designing and diagraming models takes a lot of work and the possibility of
a free trip is a nice reward.

>From: "JacAlArt ." <jacalart@HOTMAIL.COM>
>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: The Paper (Am I Alone In This?)
>Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 19:07:58 EDT
>
>Once again, I'll probably piss off a bunch of people here -- but that's
>okay. I just want to know if anyone else shares my feelings.
>
>I was looking forward to receiving my new issue of The Paper now that Marc
>K. is editing diagrams. (I love his stuff!) But once again, I was extremely
>dissapointed with the diagrams. Both pieces were modular (or 'multi-piece'
>for those of you so hung up on the definition of 'modular'). There were
>great photos in the beginning. Why not have diagrams for those?! Lang's
>Moose, Joisel's Pangolin, Mask, Sea Horse, Snail, or non-pictured Tortoise?
>I know these particular models may not be diagrammed yet -- but what about
>including more challenging models?! (Wasn't Joisel's Rat in a recent issue
>of BOS?) A Chris Palmer tesselation? A Joseph Wu creation? Something by
>Marc
>K or Jeremy S? One of the thousand diagrams published in French or Japanese
>publications? Does OUSA actively scout and recruit diagrams -- or do they
>just take whatever comes in?
>
>I fold for fun -- for the challenge -- not physical therapy. Yes yes yes.
>Simple models can be beautiful and challenging. We've all heard the rant.
>Look at David D's Cobra. Simple! Only about 10 steps -- but tough to do
>well. But why does OUSA consistently ignore technically challenging
>models?!
>
>Does anybody else out there prefer traditional (excuse me -- pure) origami?
>I mean a single uncut square (and a bit more challenging than a Candy
>Dish?!)
>
>Let's look at the last 10 issues of The Paper. Out of the 27 models, only
>one was rated as complex. Marc K's Chessboard. There were, of course, 5
>modulars and a pureland. I don't believe a model must be complex to be good
>-- but come on here! Does anyone else feel unfulfilled with The Paper? I am
>always pleased with my issue of BARF. I loved the ORU 'magazines' and still
>enjoy my Tanteidan newsletters. Sadly, Robert Lang doesn't come out with a
>book-a-month. (Too bad. I loved folding his Organist from the latest OUSA
>Convention Annual.)
>
>That's my rant. Just re-thinking any membership renewal. Anyone else?
>
>(Just a note to those I've offended. Relax! This is just my opinion. It's
>only paper. Don't take it so personally!)
>
>~Jac
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Michael Janssen-Gibson <mig@ISD.CANBERRA.EDU.AU>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 21:29
Subject: flowers (Australian- and books)

The following address will take you to the Australian Botanical Gardens
webpage, host to some lovely photography and information:

http://155.187.10.12/anbg.html

As far as I know, Momotani has 7 books relating to flowers - one for each
of the seasons, wild flowers, mountain flowers, and prefecture flowers. I
have the first 6, and love them all. Most flowers are accompanied with
instructions for folding the corresponding leaf as well, and a photo
gallery at the beginning of each book displays each of the models.

Momotani has many books published in Korean, including the four books
representing the seasons. These can be a cheaper alternative to purchasing
the Japanese versions (see Kim's Crane for a US stockist).

As for other flower books, Toshie Takahama has a flower book (which seems
very cheap if purchased directly from Japan), as does Mark Turner. There
was a recent discussion regarding an Italian book of flowers (again
through Kim's Crane), and a Spanish book called Papiroflexia:Flores.

Another book I love is called "Origami Flower Boards" (or something close
to that) by Masako Tanaka which features various 2D flower displays -
beautiful.

Finally (phew!), I have seen the cover of a flower book, again published
in Korean, which features a sunflower among others. I don't know anything
else about this book, but I hope to see a copy sometime early next year.

regards

/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/
Michael Janssen-Gibson                 e-mail: mig@isd.canberra.edu.au
Applied Science
ISD, Library                   phone/voice mail: +61 6 (06)  201 5665
University of Canberra
PO Box 1 Belconnen, ACT 2616





From: P Bailey <pbailey@OPENCOMINC.COM>
Date: 12 Oct 1999 22:57
Subject: Re: The Paper (Am I Alone In This?)

Wendi Curtis wrote:
>
> I too agree that there is a lack of diversity in diagrams OUSA offers in the
> paper.  I suspect perhaps one of the reasons there is a lack of "substance"
> in their publication is that many of the good diagrams are presented to the
> overseas groups for publication in their magazine(s).

While this goes against the grain a bit as I prefer the part of the
under dog, in this case I think OUSA may be taking the shaft
unnecessarily on this one.  As I understand it they just got a new
editor who just put out a first issue, which is being being judged
before the editor has had a chance to show his or her stuff.  And while
Marc "is" on publications that does not guarantee that he suddenly gave
up his normal life just to diagram the newest or hottest model on short
notice.  I long ago gave OUSA the right to pull stuff off of my web page
and use it when they didn't have something they liked better, this is my
way of trying to improve the situation.  I also heard of a complaint
about the Derudas Cobra, David is I believe Italian, which is why the
CDO got to print it first.  As far as the origami world is concerned it
doesn't begin and end on american shores, while we can claim some of the
most prolific creators in the world the certainly aren't the only ones!
Before we all say how bad the OUSA publications are for models, ask
instead when the last time you sent something in for them to use?

I think I'll get off my soap box here and retire to lurk mode for a
while.

PS I still haven't gotten my copy of the paper!

Perry
--
"Each time he shifted gears he did it as if the Moment of Truth
had arrived in a bullfight"
H. Allen Smith "The Pig in the Barber Shop"

http://www.afgsoft.com/perry/           <--Website w/ diagrams!
Icq 23622644





From: "Chamberlain, Clare" <Clare.Chamberlain@HEALTH.WA.GOV.AU>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 00:51
Subject: [NO] Australian wildflowers

http://www.ozemail.com.au/~wildflowers/index.html

This will lead to pictures of our Western Australian flowers - they mostly
come out around October - spring.  Just to add confusion to the seasons, the
'dead' season here (that is, in the South of Western Australia - we are
talking about a continent here) is summer, while the wettest is winter, so
everything's ready for spring.  Some trees have species which flower at
different times so the tiny mammals and birds always have a source of food.

We even have great 'fields' of PAPER flowers, that are everlasting, in
shades of pink or bright yellow - mostly daisy types, with petals that feel
like crisp tissue!

And no, we don't have kangaroos in our backyards in Perth - although we have
plenty of parrots - noisy creatures that are eating my mulberries then
leaving purple deposits on the washing!





From: "Jerry D. Harris" <LOKICORP@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 00:55
Subject: Diagrams in _The Paper_

Message text written by Origami List
>I too agree that there is a lack of diversity in diagrams OUSA offers in=

the
paper.  I suspect perhaps one of the reasons there is a lack of "substanc=
e"
in their publication is that many of the good diagrams are presented to t=
he
overseas groups for publication in their magazine(s). <

        Um...I think everyone here is overlooking the simple fact that
diagrams for complex models almost always are _far_ longer than for simpl=
e
models, and their absence in as short a production as _The Paper_ is almo=
st
certainly a cost-saving measure.  Diagrams for many of my complex models
take up 10 or more pages; in a 35-page document (such as the last ish I
have of _The Paper_), that's just under 1/3 of the whole thing.  When you=

could put 2-3 page diagrams for simpler models, you've got lots more room=

for articles, photos, etc.  The real question isn't "Why aren't there mor=
e
complex model diagrams in _The Paper_?," but "Am I willing to give up the=

articles and other, non-diagram-oriented material in _The Paper_ for long=
er
diagrams?"  Alternatively, we could ask "Am I willing to pay more in dues=

for longer issues of _The Paper_ to house both the articles _and_ longer
diagrams?"  Or, we could demote _The Paper_ from its very nice,
long-lasting, glossy paper format to a cheaper, non-glossy format to obta=
in
longer length at the same production cost.  I'm pretty sure most people
aren't willing to go for higher costs or lower quality to make up for the=

difference.  Ultimately, the reality seems to be that we simply aren't
going to get complex model diagrams in every issue of _The Paper_ and sti=
ll
retain all the other things each issue has to offer.

        So we must look to other possibilities.  _The Paper_ could adopt =
a
format where the first 2 issues of the year contain more articles and
shorter diagrams of simpler models; the last issue or 2 of each year coul=
d
have fewer articles and longer, more complex diagrams (or each of these
formats could alternate).  Better yet, why don't we leave _The Paper_ as =
it
is, and someone out there with some web skills ressurrect _Online Origami=
_
and use it as a venue for more complex diagrams?   After all, web
publishing is much cheaper than any paper format.  Possibly, OUSA could
adopt _Online Origami_ as a second newsletter and divvy up submitted
content for its newsletters between the two -- _The Paper_ could be heavy=

on articles and light on diagrams, while _Online Origami_ could be the
opposite.  (We do have to consider that many subscribers to OUSA and _The=

Paper_ do not have cheap and easy web access, so we shouldn't eliminate
diagrams from _The Paper_ entirely!)

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 _,_
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 ____/_\,)=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 ..=A0 _=A0=A0 =

--____-=3D=3D=3D(=A0 _\/=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 \\/ \-----_---__
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 /\=A0 '=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 ^__/>/\____\--------
__________/__\_ ____________________________.//__.//_________

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Jerry D. Har=
ris
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Fossil Preparation Lab
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 New Mexico Museum of Natural History
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 1801 Mountain Rd N=
W
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Albuquerque=A0 NM=A0 87104-137=
5
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Phone:=A0 (505) 899-2809=

=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 Fax:=A0 (505) 841-286=
6
=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0=A0 102354.2222@compuserve.com





From: Michael Janssen-Gibson <mig@ISD.CANBERRA.EDU.AU>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 01:15
Subject: Re: [NO] Australian wildflowers

On Wed, 13 Oct 1999, Chamberlain, Clare wrote:

> And no, we don't have kangaroos in our backyards in Perth

Actually we do in Canberra (well I had one hopping through my front yard
last year), and there are a number of families of kangaroos that live in
the bushland behind my workplace - if I look out the window at the
right time I can see them grazing in the long grass. Sometimes you *can*
believe the stories you hear about Australia ;}.

regards
Michael





From: Elaina Quackenbush <elaina_quackenbush@NETZERO.NET>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 01:47
Subject: Hi All

Hi just wanted to say hi.  Now I can go lurk and hide.

El

__________________________________________
NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html





From: Pat Ellis <EllisPS@AOL.COM>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 01:59
Subject: Re: Diagrams in _The Paper_

Another point to consider is the target group.  Is the majority of the
membership complex folders or is it simple to intermediate folders?  While I
agree that at least one or two issues could and perhaps should be compiled
with the complex folder in mind and to challenge the intermediate folder to
increase his/her skill, I am not a member of the Paper's staff and there may
be definitive reasons for their selections.  Perhaps rather the grouse we
could formerly request they expand the scope of the paper.





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 02:04
Subject: Re: Diagrams in _The Paper_

Why is it that everytime The Paper comes out people start bitching about
it?  Grow up people you knew what to expect so just deal with it.

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 02:06
Subject: some important stuff

I apologize for misspelling a great author of origami books' name.  Be
assured I didn't mean disrespect.  I also apologize for the distorted
Feynman info. it was my bad memory.  Good night and happy folding!

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 02:06
Subject: Re: Hi All

>Hi just wanted to say hi.  Now I can go lurk and hide.
>
>El
>
>__________________________________________
>NetZero - Defenders of the Free World
>Get your FREE Internet Access and Email at
>http://www.netzero.net/download/index.html

Don't hide!  Stay out in the light, you don't have to huddle in the dark
shadows any longer.





From: Dorothy Engleman <FoldingCA@WEBTV.NET>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 04:33
Subject: Re: Diagrams in _The Paper_

David Whitbeck ranted:

"Why is it that everytime The Paper comes out people start bitching
about it? Grow up people you knew what to expect so just deal with it."

This thread has generated an extremely interesting discussion, which is
what the origami list is all about.  Jerry Harris, our resident
paleontologist, has offered some very intriguing and innovative
suggestions, which I have enjoyed immensely.

Dorothy





From: Dave Mitchell <davemitchell@MIZUSHOBAI.FREESERVE.CO.UK>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 06:52
Subject: Flexagons

Kenny Kawamura wrote:

>Martin Gardner's ...... also wrote about the Flexatube, and the two odd
tetraflexagons,
>one from a 4x4 grid with a cross-slit in the center 2x2, and the other
>from a 4x4 with the center 2x2 cut out, but you had to cut, fold, and tape
>the ring back together.

Thanks for this information. I have the two basic Martin Gardner articles on
hexaflexagons and tetraflexagons from his Mathematical Puzzles and
Diversions books (that's the UK title anyway) but haven't seen what he wrote
about the Flexatube or the other flexagons. Any help in tracking these
articles down that anyone can give me would be appreciated.

>I was once lucky enough to find a copy of a small book on Flexagons,
>which went into quite a bit of detail on the theory of the Hexaflexagons,
>or so I remember.

This sounds a bit like Mathematics on Vacation by J S Madachy ( in USA
Scribners 1966 and in UK Nelson 1968 - sorry, don't have the ISBN) which set
out a simplified version of Arthur Stone et al's mathematical theory of
flexagons.

This theory allows you to construct a hexaflexagon of n faces in
such a way that the order of appearance of the faces by an arbitrarily
chosen standard flex can be determined in advance.

Though the original rigorous version now appears to be
lost - unless anyone knows better! - it is fair to say that this theory
seems to be far from being a complete mathematical description of flexagons
as a whole.

It also appears impossible now to discover exactly which flexagons were
known to the original 'Flexagon Committee' in 1935 and which have been
discovered since.

Incidentally, one of the questions that has always puzzled me about
flexagons is their
relationship (or possibly non-relationship) to moebius strips. Some are,
some aren't. Any offers of help or insights on this one?

Dave Mitchell





From: "JacAlArt ." <jacalart@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 07:22
Subject: Re: The Paper (Am I Alone In This?)

P. Bailey said:
'Before we all say how bad the OUSA publications are for models, ask
instead when the last time you sent something in for them to use?'

I send in (usually) 3 sets of diagrams a year. Sometimes OUSA uses them for
Annuals. Sometimes for The Paper. OUSA has never never never asked me for
more. Asked for more complex. Asked for more original (if I see another
elephant diagram I'll puke). Also -- I'm not the editor! It is a PAID
SUBSCRIPTION! It is NOT my responsibility to provide them with content. It
it were free, or if diagrammers were paid, maybe it would be different. I do
contribute of my own free will. I do it because I like to share -- but I
should not be 'expected' to do so!

~Jac

>From: P Bailey <pbailey@OPENCOMINC.COM>
>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: The Paper (Am I Alone In This?)
>Date: Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:50:07 -0500
>
>Wendi Curtis wrote:
> >
> > I too agree that there is a lack of diversity in diagrams OUSA offers in
>the
> > paper.  I suspect perhaps one of the reasons there is a lack of
>"substance"
> > in their publication is that many of the good diagrams are presented to
>the
> > overseas groups for publication in their magazine(s).
>
>While this goes against the grain a bit as I prefer the part of the
>under dog, in this case I think OUSA may be taking the shaft
>unnecessarily on this one.  As I understand it they just got a new
>editor who just put out a first issue, which is being being judged
>before the editor has had a chance to show his or her stuff.  And while
>Marc "is" on publications that does not guarantee that he suddenly gave
>up his normal life just to diagram the newest or hottest model on short
>notice.  I long ago gave OUSA the right to pull stuff off of my web page
>and use it when they didn't have something they liked better, this is my
>way of trying to improve the situation.  I also heard of a complaint
>about the Derudas Cobra, David is I believe Italian, which is why the
>CDO got to print it first.  As far as the origami world is concerned it
>doesn't begin and end on american shores, while we can claim some of the
>most prolific creators in the world the certainly aren't the only ones!
>Before we all say how bad the OUSA publications are for models, ask
>instead when the last time you sent something in for them to use?
>
>I think I'll get off my soap box here and retire to lurk mode for a
>while.
>
>PS I still haven't gotten my copy of the paper!
>
>Perry
>--
>"Each time he shifted gears he did it as if the Moment of Truth
>had arrived in a bullfight"
>H. Allen Smith "The Pig in the Barber Shop"
>
>http://www.afgsoft.com/perry/           <--Website w/ diagrams!
>Icq 23622644
>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: "JacAlArt ." <jacalart@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 07:24
Subject: Re: Diagrams in _The Paper_

Jerry Harris said:
'Am I willing to give up the
>articles and other, non-diagram-oriented material in _The Paper_ for longer
>diagrams?"  Alternatively, we could ask "Am I willing to pay more in dues
>for longer issues of _The Paper'

Hell yeah I'll give up a few articles of Interpretive Dance With Origami for
a few extra pages of cool diagrams!!!! As I already pay $40 for my Tanteidan
newsletters, $35 a pop for each of the ORU magazines, and $30 for each of
the Tanteidan Collections -- a few more $$ for The Paper would mean my kid
doesn't eat!

~Jac

>From: "Jerry D. Harris" <LOKICORP@COMPUSERVE.COM>
>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Diagrams in _The Paper_
>Date: Wed, 13 Oct 1999 00:52:44 -0400
>
>Message text written by Origami List
> >I too agree that there is a lack of diversity in diagrams OUSA offers in
>the
>paper.  I suspect perhaps one of the reasons there is a lack of "substance"
>in their publication is that many of the good diagrams are presented to the
>overseas groups for publication in their magazine(s). <
>
>         Um...I think everyone here is overlooking the simple fact that
>diagrams for complex models almost always are _far_ longer than for simple
>models, and their absence in as short a production as _The Paper_ is almost
>certainly a cost-saving measure.  Diagrams for many of my complex models
>take up 10 or more pages; in a 35-page document (such as the last ish I
>have of _The Paper_), that's just under 1/3 of the whole thing.  When you
>could put 2-3 page diagrams for simpler models, you've got lots more room
>for articles, photos, etc.  The real question isn't "Why aren't there more
>complex model diagrams in _The Paper_?," but "Am I willing to give up the
>articles and other, non-diagram-oriented material in _The Paper_ for longer
>diagrams?"  Alternatively, we could ask "Am I willing to pay more in dues
>for longer issues of _The Paper_ to house both the articles _and_ longer
>diagrams?"  Or, we could demote _The Paper_ from its very nice,
>long-lasting, glossy paper format to a cheaper, non-glossy format to obtain
>longer length at the same production cost.  I'm pretty sure most people
>aren't willing to go for higher costs or lower quality to make up for the
>difference.  Ultimately, the reality seems to be that we simply aren't
>going to get complex model diagrams in every issue of _The Paper_ and still
>retain all the other things each issue has to offer.
>
>         So we must look to other possibilities.  _The Paper_ could adopt a
>format where the first 2 issues of the year contain more articles and
>shorter diagrams of simpler models; the last issue or 2 of each year could
>have fewer articles and longer, more complex diagrams (or each of these
>formats could alternate).  Better yet, why don't we leave _The Paper_ as it
>is, and someone out there with some web skills ressurrect _Online Origami_
>and use it as a venue for more complex diagrams?   After all, web
>publishing is much cheaper than any paper format.  Possibly, OUSA could
>adopt _Online Origami_ as a second newsletter and divvy up submitted
>content for its newsletters between the two -- _The Paper_ could be heavy
>on articles and light on diagrams, while _Online Origami_ could be the
>opposite.  (We do have to consider that many subscribers to OUSA and _The
>Paper_ do not have cheap and easy web access, so we shouldn't eliminate
>diagrams from _The Paper_ entirely!)
>
>                _,_
>           ____/_\,)                    ..  _
>--____-===(  _\/                         \\/ \-----_---__
>           /\  '                        ^__/>/\____\--------
>__________/__\_ ____________________________.//__.//_________
>
>                     Jerry D. Harris
>                 Fossil Preparation Lab
>          New Mexico Museum of Natural History
>                   1801 Mountain Rd NW
>               Albuquerque  NM  87104-1375
>                 Phone:  (505) 899-2809
>                  Fax:  (505) 841-2866
>               102354.2222@compuserve.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@AHAND.UNICAMP.BR>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 09:08
Subject: Re: Newcomer and Question

>>From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
>>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>>
>>Hi Chrissy!  Try Origami Fantasy and Prehistoric Origami.  I personally
>>think that Origami Fantasy is far better than Prehistoric Origami.

"Better"?? Please don't go so fast when comparing books, especially
to a newcomer. There are many dimensions in origami, like in any
respected art. You can't say Beethoven is "better" than Mozart, you
can't say Renoir is "better" than Monet, at least not without raising
protests from everywhere.

How can a book be "better" than another? I'll include just a few aspects
and my not-so-humble preferences about Origami Fantasy and Prehistoric Origami:
1 has it more original models? (tie)
2 is it better produced, is it hardcover or includes color illustrations? (OF)
3 has it more realistic models? (OF)
4 has it easier-to-follow diagrams? (tie, except PO's 1st edition)
5 has it a brief description of each original subject, thus giving
  interest to a young reader? (PO)
6 can it be folded by most mortals? (PO)
7 has it ultra-cutting-edge complex finger-bleeding advanced models? (OF)
8 is it unexpensive and can it be found almost everywhere? (PO)
9 has it essays or other info on origami? (tie, both have essays on
  very different subjects)

So I think it's not appropriate just calling one or other "better", one
should a bit more precise. OF is nice for experienced folders, but it could be
quite frustrating to a newcomer.

        Sincerely,
                Carlos
        furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti

P.S. Don't forget some points I mentioned above are also a matter of time.
OF was published at least seven years after PO, and origami is evolving
faster than microchips nowadays. As far as I know PO was the first origami
book dedicated to dinosaurs, and most of its models were state-of-the-art
at the time.
P.P.S. I personally also like OF better, but PO's has a place of honor in
my bookshelf too.
P.P.P.S. The "bang-for-the-buck" factor applies here too. Is OF better?
Maybe. But it's also 3-4x more expensive. Is OF's stegosaurus (ca. 1995)
better than PO's (ca. 1985, since it was published in Top Origami, OftC's
1st edition)? It's more realistic no doubt. But it takes twice the effort
and skill.
P.P.P.P.S. Speaking of dinosaur books, does anyone have an opinion on
D. Ee's "Jurassic Origami"?





From: Scott Cramer <scram@LANDMARKNET.NET>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 09:24
Subject: Re: Newcomer and Question

Carlos says, in comparing Origami Fantasy and Prehistoric Origami:

>9 has it essays or other info on origami? (tie, both have essays on
  very different subjects)

I think the points have to go to Prehistoric O. on that one, at least for
those of us who are Japanese-reading-impaired!

P.S. Would Everyone please take the time to delete the messages they are
replying to(you know who you are)? Half of my inbox this morning was
multiply quoted previous messages. Thanks...

Scott scram@landmarknet.net
Littleton, NH USA





From: Scott Cramer <scram@LANDMARKNET.NET>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 09:38
Subject: Re: The Paper (Am I Alone In This?)

Two cents time...

    I'm sure that once the list has hashed it about and the people
responsible for The Paper  have had a chance to digest it all, we'll get the
point of view of OUSA on why they include or exclude the diagrams they do.
I'm pretty sure I've read something of the sort before, but an archive
search isn't on the schedule this morning.

    My guess is that the purpose of The Paper is to reach the OUSA
membership with news and features about origami and the people who fold it,
not to be a cutting-edge source of the latest models. I think that those of
us who are fascinated with this pastime look to more sources for our folding
fix than the couple of diagrams every few months that The Paper provides.
And nowhere in this discussion have I seen mention of OUSA's annual
collection, the largest compendium of models, in all categories of
difficulty and type, that is published on a regular basis.

Scott scram@landmarknet.net
Littleton, NH USA





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 12:41
Subject: Re: Diagrams in _The Paper_

>David Whitbeck ranted:
>
>"Why is it that everytime The Paper comes out people start bitching
>about it? Grow up people you knew what to expect so just deal with it."
>
>This thread has generated an extremely interesting discussion, which is
>what the origami list is all about.  Jerry Harris, our resident
>paleontologist, has offered some very intriguing and innovative
>suggestions, which I have enjoyed immensely.
>
>Dorothy

Well yes I don't mean everyone on this thread, I'm talking about the people
who emailed just to say they don't like the Paper and the rest of the email
is the same reasons as ten other people awhile ago had.

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 13 Oct 1999 12:47
Subject: Re: Newcomer and Question

Okay!   You're right.  I like Origami Fantasy more than Prehistoric Origami
because well:

1. the models in Prehistoric Origami are a joke.  They're mostly two
dimensional and very boxy.  They're like volvo dinosaurs.  Even the ever
popular stegosaurus is flat and doesn't even have a back.  The Triceratops
merely okay and the rest of the book has no challenge or oomf to it.

2. The Origami Fantasy models are 3d and breath life and are intricate in
detail.  It might cost alot but the models are so hard and time consuming
to fold that it's worthy the money in my opinion.

3. I say yes twice or thrice the effort for most models, but not the skill.
Kawahata uses mostly valleys, mountains and reverse folds with the
occasional sink.

I would never think that comparing those two books is like comparing
Beethoven and Mozart.  Prehistoric Origami is not that good.

David
