




From: Jose Tomas Buitrago Molina <buitrago@EIEE.UNIVALLE.EDU.CO>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: Origami in museums?

Hello. I is possible that many of you know this.

In Russia there is the First International Origami Museum and you can
contact with Nina Orstum <gavs-413@mtu-net.ru>
Enjoy this information.

     Jos Tomas Buitrago Molina M.Sc.
     buitrago@eiee.univalle.edu.co
     http://eiee.univalle.edu.co/~buitrago

     "Origami y Robtica"

This is the original message:

Dear Friends!
In Moscow during many years there is the Origami association. We, people
most different ages and trades teach and learn origami, spend exhibitions,
we let out the books, and we participate in origami conferences of the
different countries.
During existence of Moscow association paperfolders a few thousands unique
works in origami area are created, are developed pedagogical and therapy
programs on origami. A few years are back created the first Russian page in
Internet, devoted origami.
It is very interesting all, that, by and large, concerns to a history of
origami, its development and creation of new directions. To us it is
technology of the future, requiring association of efforts paperfolders of
all countries seems. Origami is universal language, allowing to the people,
speaking in different languages, to understand each other.
At the moment we create First International Origami Museum. We hope, that
Museum will help to collect all knowledge about origami, to look after a
history of this art, history of creation of a paper. The unique works of the
old and modern foremen origami should become the important part in an
exposition of Museum. Besides the editions of the different countries,
devoted origami, technology of change of a paper sheet will enter the
assembly of Museum, games with a paper, puzzles and many other. In Museum
each desiring can receive initial knowledge about origami, to pass a rate of
training or to use the literature.
If the idea of creation Museum to you seems interesting, we invite you to
take part in creation First International Origami Museum. We would be happy
to accept from you any help, advice, and support. Museum requires the books,
original and traditional origami models, and samples of an origami paper,
any documents, and photos and there is by enough friends.
Any your help will be especially marked, and your name will be entered in
the honorable Book of the founders First International Origami Museum.
If you wish to list money in Fund of creation Origami Museum, we shall tell,
how it can be made. Accepting most activity help in business of creation
Museum will enter in board of directors.
The coordinators of the project are ready to answer any your questions and
offers. To contact to us it is possible at any time:
E-mail: Gavs-413@mtu-net.ru

Address: Russia, Moscow, 123480, Geroev Panfilovtsev St., 31-39. Ostrun Nina

Happy Folding and Thanks for your help!

Osrtun Nina
Museum Coordinantor





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: eclipse

>david whitbeck wrote:
>> >> Evi wrote:
>> >> > ...and what about the poor ones, who couldn't afford special
>>sunglasses.
>> >> > Did anybody try blind-folding yet? :o)
>> >I've been working on blind, one-handed folding of cranes and flapping birds
>> >to relieve stress. They certainly help focus one on what's going on in your
>> >hand rather than the outside world. All the best - c!!!
>> I had a friend in high school that could fold the crane blindfolded in
>> under thirty seconds!
>Wow, where did your friend get the extra paper to make the crane's blindfold?
>
>-D'gou

Or more importantly, how do you convince a crane to put on a blindfold?

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: [NO] Matrix Trilogy

>You lucky people, in England DVDs cost around 20 (that's 30 'bucks'  to
>you), and they come out later, or in the case of Miyazaki films, never at
>all.
>
>Whinge, whinge
>
>Robin Glynn.

Isn't that about what it is here?  20-25 dollars I think at a good price.
Of course one can always cheat and go to costco.  I myself don't even have
a DVD player, videos are good enough for me.

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: Tangents on Origami

Questions of mine own: is a topology an important field for origami?  What
about other stuff?  Does Kawasaki's Rose, something, and Mathematics (fill
in the something with the right word(s)) go into theory a bit?  And if it
does, how can any American yokel like me who doesn't read Japanese
understand it?  I saw several copies of it at Sasuga.

18-19: that's just been talked about and is up on the web.

29: partition a convex set in R x R radially, the sum of the alternate
angles is pi.

Maekawa extension: to fold a piece of paper flat onto one surface, the
difference between mountain and valley folds is two.

46-49: I hate to break this to you, but it's just the same as in Unit
Origami by Tomoko Fuse.  Primarily used so that you know how many units to
make to create a closed surface, polygon style.

David





From: Deg Farrelly <DEG.FARRELLY@ASU.EDU>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Statue of Liberty origami model

Anna Weathers wrote:

<...Some of the models were displayed without folder info, as the stunning
mushroom and a Statue of Liberty --  for others, as the study room in
miniature and the quilts, I do not remember the folders.  I returned
several times to see new angles.....>

Just to let you know (in case you didn't know already) that a video diagram
for the Statue of Liberty model, designed by David Shall, is available for
purchase.

Please contact me privately for details or additional information.

deg farrelly
Phoenix, Arizona
Phone:  602.943.8175
E-Mail:  StickmanAZ@aol.com





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: helpful hint

Beth indited:

> I wanted to pass this tip along in case anyone else out here does folding
> while watching TV or on the road...
>
> I like to photocopy those diagrams I use repeatedly...or those I want to try
> out...and when I do... I put them in a loose leaf presentation notebook...I
> can use the notebook for a laptop folding table...and the diagram can slip
> right into the clear presentation slot on the front for easy viewing...

I can't say for watching TV, since I don't parallel process well between
visual tasks. Listening to music and folding I can do, because of the
different modalities.

But, for travelling, that is an excellent idea. I also photocopy often used
(or want to try) diagrams, enough that I now have 5 binders full, sorted by
subject (flying, animal, geometric, etc.). I use cheapo top-loading sheet
protectors rather than punching holes in the copies. Its quicker, safer around
food (I like to fold "during lunch" at work), and some diagrams when copied
onto 8.5x11 are right up to the edge of the paper and leave little room for
the holes. Anyways, if you can afford it, this method makes taking along your
5 favorite models a lot easier than carrying five separate books, and keeps
the originals in better shape too!

-D'gou the indulgent.





From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Divisions method

Mark Kennedy wrote:
<<The best trick that I learned for odd subdivisions came from a David Brill
<<book (I think - I have been crediting him with the technique). Take some
<<lined paper and place it  diagonally across the paper starting at the lower
<<Left...

This is the old engineer/architect trick I referred to in my post
(and several times over the years in the past): it is so ancient it
qualifies as a "geezer technique". The idea is illustrated in most
old elementary geometry books.

Anti-tool purists can accomplish the same thing with a second piece
of paper creased into 8ths or 16ths with parallel creases.

Valerie Vann





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: eclipse

david whitbeck wrote:
> >> Evi wrote:
> >> > ...and what about the poor ones, who couldn't afford special sunglasses.
> >> > Did anybody try blind-folding yet? :o)
> >I've been working on blind, one-handed folding of cranes and flapping birds
> >to relieve stress. They certainly help focus one on what's going on in your
> >hand rather than the outside world. All the best - c!!!
> I had a friend in high school that could fold the crane blindfolded in
> under thirty seconds!
Wow, where did your friend get the extra paper to make the crane's blindfold?

-D'gou





From: Jansill@AOL.COM
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Where is my cousin when I need her???

Nobody is more upset about the way my book(s) came out than I am. This has
been discussed here before, but I'll defend myself just a bit.

Basically, regarding the diagrams, I was working with an illustrator who
didn't really know anything about paper folding and the diagrams did come out
pretty sloppy. The biggest problem was that the book packager who was putting
it out was so slow in paying both me and the illustrator, that the
illustrator refused to do anything until he got paid (I completely
sympathized with him...I waited over 6 months for a check)...this mini strike
put us so far behind schedule that making the corrections etc, was impossible
and it had to be sent out the way it was. I was extremely upset...but that
was not the only thing that upset me!

It was weird from the beginning...they kept changing the theme of the
book...first it was "buildings" then "animals"..then they accepted an idea I
had of just what I considered state-of-the-art folding...no theme except
stuff that I thought was the best new work...then my editor got fired and the
new one rejected the idea and I came up with Mythical Beings. Meanwhile the
clock was ticking away and the deadline was approaching.

One time I got into such a feirce argument with the editor about giving
credit..I felt that the creators' names should be listed with the name of the
model..she didn't think it was necassary..she actually hung up on me! We
eventually settled on having the names in the table of contents..but when the
books came out they were listed in the back of the book.

I had hired my own photographer for the books, but for some reason he ended
up not being able to do it and the book packager brought in someone they
knew. I went to meet him and brought a pile of books to give him an idea of
what I thought worked and didn't work. In his most pretentious artsy-fartsy
voice, he told me that he didn't want to look at any origami books as he
didn't want his "vision" to be "influenced". I wanted to murder him! I really
hate those pictures,,,the Deadalus..such a geraceful and beautiful
model..looks like a piece of crumbled paper!

anyway...I agree with what you say and I apologize for the hours of
frustration I've doubtless caused many folders!

As ever,

Jay Ansill
<Jansill@aol.com>
www.fortissimo.org/Artists/ansill
All lives have happened long ago; or, at any rate, they are not happening
now, however immediate they may seem to the people that are living them.  -
Laura Riding





From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@AHAND.UNICAMP.BR>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: My mistake (was Re: FuRUTI Posting)

>>From: Maria Conchita Gomez-Montoya <DosRiosRh@AOL.COM>

Very funny. After the Unafolder and Xuxa Rojas, now we are graced
by a Gomez-Montoya (the reference to "Montoya" was well thought out,
whoever Maria actually is).

>>Gracias.  Thank you for clearing the name of Fernando.  His book is very
>>good.  Please buy from him... he needs.  He works on new book now!

Seriously now, not everyone can easily contact authors of privately-published
short-run books. It can also be very difficult paying by other means than
credit card or money orders. Couldn't some organization like OUSA or
BOS act as intermediate and stock a few books like Gilgado Gomez's?
Any suggestion, Nick?

        Sincerely,
                Carlos
        furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





From: "Wu, Sonia" <swu@BANSHEE.SAR.USF.EDU>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: Origami Challenge 2

Dorothy Engleman challenged the creators to produce an orchestra of
instruments.

How about a working Rube Goldberg-type machine?  I'd be satisfied with
one made of composite parts, though of course the best thing would be
one-sheet-no-cuts.

Sonia Wu





From: Kevin Kinney <kkinney@MED.UNC.EDU>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: Where is my cousin when I need her???

----------
>From: Jansill@AOL.COM
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Where is my cousin when I need her???
>Date: Tue, Aug 17, 1999, 4:23 PM
>

>Nobody is more upset about the way my book(s) came out than I am. This has
>been discussed here before, but I'll defend myself just a bit.
>

much snipped...aper!
>
>anyway...I agree with what you say and I apologize for the hours of
>frustration I've doubtless caused many folders!
>

Well, I'm not your cousin, but I am a fellow harper, so I'll leap in and say
that Mythical Beings was my first "real" (read-more than simple and
traditional models) origami book (or possibly second, I think I saw an old
copy of "Secrets of Origami" about the same time), and, for the record, I
folded every model save one from those directions (the exception being the
Leprechaun-they're difficult to catch, all right!).  True, I had to guess in
a few spots, and the Unicorn took a long while and many failed attempts, but
the book *is* useful.  And it contains my favorite dragon-Mark
Kirschenbaum's "Rearing Dragon," (though I thinnk that one is now available
on the Web, too).

So I'd vote it quite worth having.  If you can find a copy.  Lots of Luck!

Kevin Kinney





From: Dave Stephenson <EruditusD@AOL.COM>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: Not an origami book (was RE: Origami Books: What do you look ...

In a message dated 17/08/99 13:08:07 GMT Daylight Time, dwp@TRANSARC.COM
writes:

<< Dave Stephenson indicted:

 +Absolutely, nice to see someone else takes my point of view, im sorry but
 +cutting the square is out and out cheating, theres always a way round you
 +just have to find it.

 You are correct, it is a point of view. And a recent one at that, as it
 has no support from the long history of origami. How easy it would be
 to presume that the origami tradition was filled with folders too dumb
 to figure out how to avoid cuts. How much more truthful that they merely
 didn't care for that tiny little purist box many have now drawn around
 that aspect of themselves which folds and/or designs origami.

 "Cheating" depends only what you are trying to achieve and why. As
 always, there are no origami police. "Failure to cut" too often leads
 to models that are thick and bulky in places where the subject of the
 model is not. You choose rejection-of-cutting over
 trueness-of-final-form, but they are just both different forms of
 beauty and neither is better than the other.
  >>

Each to their own friend, I don't see people who cut as dumb or otherwise,
but to me the true beauty of origami is to overcome the technical challenge
of creating the desired fold without cutting or gluing.

If I accepted either of these the folding the origami unicorn from the end of
BladeRunner (My current project) would be a cinch, but I know that when I
finally figure it out it will mean a lot more to me than if id just made the
horn by a swift cut along across the horses head and got around the reversed
colours by gluing a front and back piece made separately.

As to whether my method effects the trueness of final form is open to debate,
this can only be down to the designer of the model and their abilities.
Anyway theres a name for making models by cutting the paper, decoupage I
believe :) )

***************************************
* Eruditus Has Left The Building *





From: Dave Stephenson <EruditusD@AOL.COM>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: NO: including other cultures International Christmas

In a message dated 17/08/99 22:23:08 GMT Daylight Time,
torsten.drees@T-ONLINE.DE writes:

<< little Example: Many europeans are still thinking that people from USA
<<are usually eating fast-food. i still don't believe it. >>

errrrm actually I'm pretty sure there's certain demographics to support this
one...

**************************************
* Eruditus Has Left The Building *





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: C++ is amazing!

Well I'm working on my first program in ecs40=C++ programming class.  I've
got to say that I love classes!  It's really neat using them to write short
powerful programs that work better than a C program where a C program would
be much, much larger using procedural functions.  I have to reccommend any
programmers on the list who haven't learned an object orientated
programming language to give it a go, it's impressive.  Does anyone on the
list have any comments, good or bad, about C++ or C?  I personally hate C
because it's so awkward and that horrible scanf errors!??!
&&*^^$^&%^^%$&$^&$%*$%&$%*$%&*$% argggh#%#$^$%^#$&^%$&$E^

Well that's enough rambling for now.

David





From: Donna & Robin <robin@RGLYNN.KEME.CO.UK>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: [NO] Matrix Trilogy

You lucky people, in England DVDs cost around 20 (that's 30 'bucks'  to
you), and they come out later, or in the case of Miyazaki films, never at
all.

Whinge, whinge

Robin Glynn.





From: Torsten Drees <torsten.drees@T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: NO: including other cultures International Christmas

Haello Chrsitopher,

i haven't had an idea how such project is to realize.

i think, with youre criticism, you are right.

Perhaps, different people of different cultures are folding
symbols about theire culture. They describes the sysmbol with the
context.
i think it is important to describe the culture, because
not in every culture the religion is the most important but
in the most cultures and do not get the bad things you descibed.
The Motivation is an other. it has nothing to do with show and
merchantdising. It will not amalgam or seperated.

But i've not time to make a project.

it is a pity that we are members of a multicultural mailinglist
and we don't know many from the others.

little Example: Many europeans are still thinking that people from USA
are
usually eating fast-food.
i still don't believe it.

but i think it is all far away from your original destination

All the best, too.

Torsten

I will interpret your last sentence:

everybody could be able to choose the right illusion,
but the most people think that their illusions are
unchangeable reality. your world is in your hand.

Christopher Holt wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: Torsten Drees <torsten.drees@T-ONLINE.DE>
>
> > Hi,
> >
> >
> >
> > i only got an idea and i wanted to offer this idea to the list.
> >
> > Please keep crusades far away form me. Im not a person that wants to
> >
> > make every thing 100%. i will not feel bad, when you say that my ideas
> >
> > are incredible.
> >
> >
> >
> > So, i will stop this discussion from my side.
>
> That is too bad, I think it might be good to discuss what is and what is not
> apropos in re of this list. I was merely noticing how a post for folds
> relative to a specific request got quickly co-opted into answers that
> attempted to alter that request, something that I've not seen happen in
> postings that requested non-cultural-specific information. Your post was
> merely a touchstone that illustrated that pattern fairly clearly. What I
> should have done, perhaps, is ask why the group seemed reticent to respond
> upon the subject as noted, and seemed to suggest topics that were
> specifically not a part of the request. I was musing upon the fact that in
> the quest for an undue level of political correctness, we tend to simply try
> to include all cultures as if they were one big happy family, which belies
> their natures. I'm sure if a native American were to ask for a fold pattern
> of a Lakota sun-dancer and got back a Buddhist monk, all lotussed-out in
> silent meditation, they might feel a bit slighted by the facile explanation
> that they are the same in that they are both figures seeking clarity. We
> either want or don't want seperate cultural idioms. I would  hate to see the
> beauty of the many diverse religious ceremonies pureed into some false
> amalgam of amorphous spirituality. And I hate organized religion.
> Admittedly, we could all use a dose of greater understanding of others'
> cultures--I would hope that discussions toward that end might flourish on
> this list which seems willing to take on some interesting topics. I would
> merely note my own (inconsequential, admittedly) hope that said discussions
> would take place in a thread that is seperate from such a request as the one
> that we are both (and many others as well) responding to. I had hoped that
> your last post upon the subject might be a good jumping off point for such a
> thread, and in that way the discussion might continue.
>
> All the best - c!!!
> everyone accepts "the illusion of reality", but you're crazy if you talk of
> "the reality of illusion"
> ella-mae@msn.com





From: Christopher Holt <Ella-mae@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: [NO] Music to Fold By

----- Original Message -----
From: Doug and Anna Weathers <dougw@RDROP.COM>
To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>

> As to what I listen to when folding, I haven't yet noticed any pattern
> different from what I listen to generally.  I listen mostly to the
spectrum
> from folk to rock, plus a smattering of instrumentals.  It's worth making
> some experiments.  Would a rose folded to the cathartic lyrics of Leslie
> Fish look different than one folded to the serene beauty of Andrew York's
> solo guitar?  How about the grand strains of the Star Wars soundtrack, or
> the angst of Nirvana?  Hmm...
>

A nifty idea--psychology, origami, and 'Uurrrgh!!-o-nomics' combined. It's
not the paper that's folding, it's your mind. I would imagine that if one
let angst simmer while folding, one's attitude might turn a bit foul, and,
even if the fold turns out fine, in the mind of the folder it will always be
a pain. I might start to observe what actually gets the most positive
reaction from me after folding to various artists, taking into account the
baggage that each tune brings with it. Very complex question...

All the best - c!!!
everyone accepts "the illusion of reality", but you're crazy if you talk of
"the reality of illusion"
ella-mae@msn.com





From: Christopher Holt <Ella-mae@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Date: 17 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: NO: including other cultures International Christmas

----- Original Message -----
From: Torsten Drees <torsten.drees@T-ONLINE.DE>
To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>

> Perhaps, different people of different cultures are folding
> symbols about theire culture. They describes the sysmbol with the
> context.

Actually, I think that this list has a great tendancy toward inclusivity of
culture. Everyone does seem very interested in the cultures that people
bring to this list. Of course many of us want to express ourselves and our
cultures through something that we find such beauty in.

> it is a pity that we are members of a multicultural mailinglist
> and we don't know many from the others.

That's why we're on this list. We are making a culture through this list and
how it connects us. Through a minimum of information we are learning how to
appreciate each other through the focus of our interests. It is also funny
to see how we are able to know individuals from other individuals based upon
short, typed messages.

> little Example: Many europeans are still thinking that people from USA
> are
> usually eating fast-food.
> i still don't believe it.

Oh... believe it, friend. And it breaks my heart everyday. No one here
respects food, well--remakably few people do.

> I will interpret your last sentence:

i.e.:"Everyone accepts 'the illusion of reality', but you're crazy if you
talk of 'the reality of illusion'

> everybody could be able to choose the right illusion,
> but the most people think that their illusions are
> unchangeable reality. your world is in your hand.

That is not what I had meant, but that is a wonderful interpretaion, and,
hearing it, I wish that that's how I had meant it.

All the best - c!!!
everyone accepts "the illusion of reality", but you're crazy if you talk of
"the reality of illusion"
ella-mae@msn.com





From: Christopher Holt <Ella-mae@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: Origami Challenge 2

----- Original Message -----
From: Wu, Sonia <swu@BANSHEE.SAR.USF.EDU>
To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>

> Dorothy Engleman challenged the creators to produce an orchestra of
> instruments.
>
> How about a working Rube Goldberg-type machine
> Sonia Wu

I'm sure that that should ring a few bells out there. People will be
furiously folding the game of MouseTrap.

All the best - c!!!
everyone accepts "the illusion of reality", but you're crazy if you talk of
"the reality of illusion"
ella-mae@msn.com





From: Christopher Holt <Ella-mae@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: Tangents on Origami

----- Original Message -----
From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>

> Questions of mine own: is a topology an important field for origami?  What
> about other stuff?

It cetainly could be, they sure have overlapping implications, and origami
could be a powerful tool for simple topological construtions (as well as
complex ones, at least for rough guestimation). I certainly get more out of
origami when I've been teasing my mind with problems of bifurcative
replications approaching fractal complexity, and ultimately a function that
is somewhere between choas and order. It doesn't take too many steps for an
origami project to skyrocket in complexity. What kind of base causes what
kind of complex in any given number of steps, defined according to the size
of the paper, minimum unnecessary creasing, and yet retaining a stylistic
character? Not a very rigorous problem, as aesthetics enters into the
equation more than anything else for me, but it gives one a neat way to try
to previsualize what one can do. I visualize it as a simple operator, such
as natural selection (most fit=most simple, elegant, efficient). In steps it
is clear, but in an ecological context, and over time, it is the most
complex operator available to table for discussion. No matter how you try to
analyse or drive the function, the more dissipated and meaningless your
efforts become.

All the best - c!!!
everyone accepts "the illusion of reality", but you're crazy if you talk of
"the reality of illusion"
ella-mae@msn.com





From: PErick3491@AOL.COM
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: hot air balloons

Hi, everyone
First, thanks to Matthias for the word play, "wishy washi".  Made me smile
for hours.  Second, does anyone know how to reach Yurii and Katrin Shumakovs?
 I recently saw their site, Oriland, and, specifically, a picture of a hot
air balloon folded from an accordian pleat pattern.  I sent them an email--no
answer.  Now their site has a script error message.  Is there any information
out there about their publications or where I might find the diagrams for the
hot air balloon?  Thanks, Pat





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: NO: including other cultures International Christmas

>----- Original Message -----

Christopher Holt replied to another reply from the saintly days of yore:

>
>> little Example: Many europeans are still thinking that people from USA
>> are
>> usually eating fast-food.
>> i still don't believe it.
>
>Oh... believe it, friend. And it breaks my heart everyday. No one here
>respects food, well--remakably few people do.

Then why is like half the people in Davis vegetarians?

David





From: Julia Palffy <jupalffy@BLUEWIN.CH>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Response to Origami as Art

Hello everybody!

Some time ago, I passed on to the list a question from a sculptor friend as
to why folders prefer to make art with something 'as frail and ephemeral as
paper'.
I appreciated all your answers very much, and so did my friend when I told
him about them. He has asked me to pass on his thanks for these answers,
and also his admiration - I showed him the pictures of the OUSA Convention
by Gerard Blais, and one or two other sites, and he was deeply impressed.
He was very interested to hear that there is to be a Convention soon in his
own country (Colombia) and has asked me to keep him informed.

So thanks a lot for the response, everyone!

Julia Palffy
Zug, Switzerland
jupalffy@bluewin.ch





From: Julia Palffy <jupalffy@BLUEWIN.CH>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Tangents on Origami

Could anyone help me with these requests of mine?

1) Since I have Top Origami, I don't want to buy Origami for the
Connoisseur, but I would very much like to obtain the English text of pp.
18,19,29 and 46 to 49 (page numbers of Top Origami), which deal with some
of the mathematics of Origami. Could someone let me know if he/she can send
me photocopies or scannings of these pages? This would be no breach of
copyright as it concerns only a few pages for private use.

2) Can someone recommend a good book on origami and mathematics? I'd like
something a bit challenging but accessible to the adult layperson,
illustrating theorems like those in request 1), with 'food for thinking',
and giving an introduction or an explanation of the fields of mathematics
which are concerned by Origami. (No elementary schoolteacher's manual,
please).

3) I'd also like to know if there is a book explaining and illustrating
techniques used to enhance Origami (laminating, coating, wet folding,
folding other materials than paper...you may complete the list, I'm curious
as to what may turn up besides). Not wanted are books about other
paper-related hobbies like bookbinding or papier-mache, as I already have a
couple of those.

Thanks in advance,

Julia Palffy
Zug, Switzerland
jupalffy@bluewin.ch





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: [NO] RE: C++ is amazing!

>Yes, C++ is very nice, but I do tend to have to use C at work because C++
>has had a history of slowness/large code size. It seems to be significantly
>better now but it'll probably take a while for the games industry (well, the
>company I am in) to get over the speed legacy.
>
>Given the choice I would use C++.
>--------------------------
>        Allan           (a_findlay@exchange.creations.co.uk)
>

What games have you worked on?  Inquiring minds want to know.  I'm
surprised that you guys are not all hardcore assembly programmers to
enhance the speed even further.

David

ps oops, I forgot to put NO again on non-origami email!





From: Christopher Holt <Ella-mae@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: NO: including other cultures International Christmas

----- Original Message -----
From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>

> > No one here
> >respects food, well--remakably few people do.
>
> Then why is like half the people in Davis vegetarians?
>
> David

Because most of the people in Davis follow the "cereal" demographics: what's
not fruits and nuts is flakes. I had to use that joke, I've been sitting on
it for years. No offense meant, but let's face it, Davis is as far from the
'real' U.S. demographic as silk is from chain mail. I've cheffed in Davis
(nice place, no longer there--beautiful 'world-cuisine' menu I drew up daily
based on what I'd bought at the co-op that day, on my way in. It was a dream
in many ways, flights of culinary fancy), and I give hearty respect to many
of the palettes I've catered to in that town. It also has its share of
people who eat 'what's trendy' with no respect for what it is, how it is, or
should be cooked, etc. Some of the finest noses for wine, brewers, etc..
live and work and school there. And some who couldn't tell an oak-casked
Viognier from blue ripple, even without a blindfold. I'll bet you're right
about one half of Davis being vegetarians, but I've fed the other half veal.
They are way off the norm for culinary tendancies. Go to a Hardies in
Nebraska sometime, and tell me how that fare grabs ya. Suburbia eats in a
hell of fast-food, taste-bud numbing, vat of edible 'stuff' of various
colors and textures, but no difference in composition. Someone pours the
sack of 'stuff' into the re-stuffolator and 'poof!', viola--stuff Italian
style, stuff au gratin, stuff bits in stuff-flavored jello (with mandarin
orange shaped stuff in it for color), stuff a la mode. Stouffers frozen
dinners are just french-food-stuff. I digress and rant, but I have seen the
culinary face of the U.S., and it looks like it got whacked hard with an
ugly stick on the front of a Sysco sixteen wheeler that is Out Of Control
!!!

All the best - c!!!
everyone accepts "the illusion of reality", but you're crazy if you talk of
"the reality of illusion"
ella-mae@msn.com





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: NO: including other cultures International Christmas

>----- Original Message -----
>From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
>To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>
>> > No one here
>> >respects food, well--remakably few people do.
>>
>> Then why is like half the people in Davis vegetarians?
>>
>> David
>
>Because most of the people in Davis follow the "cereal" demographics: what's
>not fruits and nuts is flakes. I had to use that joke, I've been sitting on
>it for years. No offense meant, but let's face it, Davis is as far from the
>'real' U.S. demographic as silk is from chain mail. I've cheffed in Davis
>(nice place, no longer there--beautiful 'world-cuisine' menu I drew up daily
>based on what I'd bought at the co-op that day, on my way in. It was a dream
>in many ways, flights of culinary fancy), and I give hearty respect to many
>of the palettes I've catered to in that town. It also has its share of
>people who eat 'what's trendy' with no respect for what it is, how it is, or
>should be cooked, etc. Some of the finest noses for wine, brewers, etc..
>live and work and school there. And some who couldn't tell an oak-casked
>Viognier from blue ripple, even without a blindfold. I'll bet you're right
>about one half of Davis being vegetarians, but I've fed the other half veal.
>They are way off the norm for culinary tendancies. Go to a Hardies in
>Nebraska sometime, and tell me how that fare grabs ya. Suburbia eats in a
>hell of fast-food, taste-bud numbing, vat of edible 'stuff' of various
>colors and textures, but no difference in composition. Someone pours the
>sack of 'stuff' into the re-stuffolator and 'poof!', viola--stuff Italian
>style, stuff au gratin, stuff bits in stuff-flavored jello (with mandarin
>orange shaped stuff in it for color), stuff a la mode. Stouffers frozen
>dinners are just french-food-stuff. I digress and rant, but I have seen the
>culinary face of the U.S., and it looks like it got whacked hard with an
>ugly stick on the front of a Sysco sixteen wheeler that is Out Of Control
>!!!
>
>
>All the best - c!!!
>everyone accepts "the illusion of reality", but you're crazy if you talk of
>"the reality of illusion"
>ella-mae@msn.com

Your point is well seen.  My interactions with the world have been limited
to Davis and home, where my mother cooks everything.  So it is difficult to
get a feel for most other places.  Here in Davis many of the friends I have
prefer to buy vegetables and cook them in olive oil, and the people who are
not vegetarians like me usually cook their own food anyway.  I'm one of
those fast food kind of guys for lunch right now since research and class
have been so busy in the day I need exactly that: fast.  Next time you go
down to Davis you'll have to go to the Coffeehouse and try their burritos,
it's the best I've had (seriously!  They're really good, you can't get a
better lunch in town.)  A trend I definately have noticed though in the
west coast at least is cafe's: there are so many Starbucks, cafes and
coffeehouses that you can walk just a few blocks from one to get to
another.  But is weird is all the donuts shops in the east coast which I
haven't really found in abundance here in California.

David





From: Christopher Holt <Ella-mae@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: NO: including other cultures International Christmas

----- Original Message -----
From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>

> But is weird is all the donuts shops in the east coast which I
> haven't really found in abundance here in California.
>
> David

Gotta tell ya, yer preachin' to the choir there. Couldn't swing a dead cat
without hitting a Dunkin' Donuts back east. Now that's reseach project food
for you. Physics, 1982; perturbed angular correlations lab. Lived two dozen
donuts per day. Enough coffee to sink a battleship in. California can't make
a normal cup of coffee or a good pizza or sundae, but they're hell on
espresso, sashimi(and sushi), and tend to think a bit before they eat. You,
on the other hand, have got to scurry your butt down to Sophia's Kitchen for
some of her Thai green curry and some ginger salad. Or papaya slad, for that
matter. It's all the best there. Down in Orange court, by the Hot-Dogger
(YECHHHHHHH!!!!!!).
All the best - c!!!
everyone accepts "the illusion of reality", but you're crazy if you talk of
"the reality of illusion"
ella-mae@msn.com





From: Dave Stephenson <EruditusD@AOL.COM>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: NO: including other cultures International Christmas

In a message dated 18/08/99 08:30:58 GMT Daylight Time,
dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU writes:

<< Then why is like half the people in Davis vegetarians? -David >>

Statistically Davis is pretty small, and theres lots of fast food that caters
for vegetarians i.e. pizzas being the prime example.

***************************************
* Eruditus Has Left The Building *





From: DLister891@AOL.COM
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: [NO] ASCII Characters in E-mail. (Formerly Matrix Trilogy)

Robin Glynn of the UK wrote:

> You lucky people, in England DVDs cost around 20 (that's 30 'bucks'  to
>  you), and they come out later, or in the case of Miyazaki films, never at
>  all.

I'm not so much interested in DVDs or what they cost, but what does interest
me is that pound sign in Robin's message.

I always understood that the pound sign was not part of the ASCII code
(Becuse ASCII was devised in the United States for internal use).

Although my keybord does have a pound sign on it, I have always refrained
from using it in e-mail and have typed "Pound" in full. Some people write GBP
in accordance with a new convention in financial martkets.

Has the position changed? I have heard of a system known as "Extended ASCII".
Does this now apply to all E-mail? Does it include a pound sign and can I use
it when I write to Origami-L?

David Lister.

Grimsby, England (UK).





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: FuRUTI Posting: Was: RE: Origami Books: What do you look for

Maria Conchita Gomez-Montoya <DosRiosRh@AOL.COM> sez

>Maria Conchita Gomez-Montoya

Just thought I'd let you know that our cat's called Gomez & he's into
box-pleating.

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - now featuring soda syphons!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: My mistake (was Re: FuRUTI Posting)

Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@AHAND.UNICAMP.BR> sez

>Couldn't some organization like OUSA or
>BOS act as intermediate and stock a few books like Gilgado Gomez's?
>Any suggestion, Nick?

If the author approaches Bookends in GB or Fascinating Folds or
wherever, most of these companies are happy to buy in private
publications..

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - now featuring soda syphons!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/





From: Bernie Cosell <bernie@FANTASYFARM.COM>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: C++ is amazing!

On 17 Aug 99, at 22:24, david whitbeck wrote:

> Well I'm working on my first program in ecs40=C++ programming class. ...

Did you post this to the wrong mailing list by mistake?

> ... I have to reccommend any
> programmers on the list who haven't learned an object orientated
> programming language to give it a go, it's impressive.

Actually C++ is a truly *AWFUL* OOP language and is very nearly the worst
way to learn what OOP is really all about.  C++ was poorly designed at
the outset (for OOP!, *not* as a very clever and handy set of
enhancements to C!) and over the years has turned into a monstrously
complicated mess. The beauty and elegance of OOP is virtually smothered
in the ugly syntax and picky ideosyncracies (and limitations) of the C++
run time environment...

And now, back to origami, perhaps??

  /Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
mailto:bernie@fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--





From: Bernie Cosell <bernie@FANTASYFARM.COM>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: [NO] ASCII Characters in E-mail. (Formerly Matrix Trilogy)

On 18 Aug 99, at 4:50, DLister891@AOL.COM wrote:

> Robin Glynn of the UK wrote:
>
> > You lucky people, in England DVDs cost around 20 (that's 30 'bucks'  to
> >  you), and they come out later, or in the case of Miyazaki films, never at
> >  all.
>
> I'm not so much interested in DVDs or what they cost, but what does interest
> me is that pound sign in Robin's message.
>
> I always understood that the pound sign was not part of the ASCII code
> (Becuse ASCII was devised in the United States for internal use).

That's correct, but email largely doesn't use ASCII any more, but rather
something called "ISO-Latin" [or more properly "ISO 8859"].  This is
basically ASCII for char codes <128, but uses the upper 128 char
positions for extra characters for supporting European languages.
there's a lot of stuff in there: most of the accented characters in both
majuscule and minuscule (, ), fractions and other math symbols (, ),
and a bunch of other miscellaneous marks and glyphs (, , ).

Not every mail agent supports passing 8-bit characters properly, and so
not every mail client will receive these "upper 128" characters properly,
but most will these days.

There are also more ambitious character sets that will be arriving over
the next while that'll allow the encoding of non-Latin-alphabet languages
[Farsi, Japanese, Urdu, etc, etc]

> Has the position changed? I have heard of a system known as "Extended ASCII".
> Does this now apply to all E-mail? Does it include a pound sign and can I use
> it when I write to Origami-L?

It includes *most* email.  I -think- that the official spec for email
only requires that email support 7-bit character sets, but these days I
believe that virtually every email server and client supports ISO-Latin

  /Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
mailto:bernie@fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--





From: Allan findlay <a_findlay@EXCHANGE.CREATIONS.CO.UK>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: [NO] RE: C++ is amazing!

Yes, C++ is very nice, but I do tend to have to use C at work because C++
has had a history of slowness/large code size. It seems to be significantly
better now but it'll probably take a while for the games industry (well, the
company I am in) to get over the speed legacy.

Given the choice I would use C++.
--------------------------
        Allan           (a_findlay@exchange.creations.co.uk)

> ----------
> From:         david whitbeck[SMTP:dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU]
> Reply To:     Origami List
> Sent:         18 August 1999 06:24
> To:   ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      C++ is amazing!
>
> Well I'm working on my first program in ecs40=C++ programming class.  I've
> got to say that I love classes!  It's really neat using them to write
> short
> powerful programs that work better than a C program where a C program
> would
> be much, much larger using procedural functions.  I have to reccommend any
> programmers on the list who haven't learned an object orientated
> programming language to give it a go, it's impressive.  Does anyone on the
> list have any comments, good or bad, about C++ or C?  I personally hate C
> because it's so awkward and that horrible scanf errors!??!
> &&*^^$^&%^^%$&$^&$%*$%&$%*$%&*$% argggh#%#$^$%^#$&^%$&$E^
>
>
> Well that's enough rambling for now.
>
> David





From: Allan findlay <a_findlay@EXCHANGE.CREATIONS.CO.UK>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: [NO] RE: C++ is amazing!

No, assembly takes too long to write & debug & is more difficult to use for
large teams.
We will revert to assembly for speed critical things but in general C will
give us good enough code.

My games:-
Strider 2 - Megadrive (first game!)
(worked on N64 sound tools for a couple of years)
Hexen 64 - N64
Wayne Gretzky's 3D Hockey '98 - N64
World Cup '98 - N64
Fifa '99 - N64
Racing Game - N64 (just finishing it now)

I'll be working on a PC/PSX racing game next.
--------------------------
        Allan           (a_findlay@exchange.creations.co.uk)

> ----------
> From:         david whitbeck[SMTP:dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU]
> Reply To:     Origami List
> Sent:         18 August 1999 08:56
> To:   ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
> Subject:      Re: [NO] RE: C++ is amazing!
>
> >Yes, C++ is very nice, but I do tend to have to use C at work because C++
> >has had a history of slowness/large code size. It seems to be
> significantly
> >better now but it'll probably take a while for the games industry (well,
> the
> >company I am in) to get over the speed legacy.
> >
> >Given the choice I would use C++.
> >--------------------------
> >        Allan           (a_findlay@exchange.creations.co.uk)
> >
>
> What games have you worked on?  Inquiring minds want to know.  I'm
> surprised that you guys are not all hardcore assembly programmers to
> enhance the speed even further.
>
> David
>
> ps oops, I forgot to put NO again on non-origami email!





From: Evi <d.evi.l@MUENSTER.DE>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: Where is my cousin when I need her???

Hi Jansill,

don't tell Ronald Koh about the problems you had!
He could get very scared, so we may never ever get to see his new book. :o)

Happy folding!
Evi





From: Doug and Anna Weathers <dougw@RDROP.COM>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: Tangents on Origami

>----- Original Message -----
>From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
>To: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>
>
>
>> Questions of mine own: is a topology an important field for origami?  What
>> about other stuff?
>
>It cetainly could be, they sure have overlapping implications, and origami
>could be a powerful tool for simple topological construtions (as well as
>complex ones, at least for rough guestimation). I certainly get more out of
>origami when I've been teasing my mind with problems of bifurcative
>replications approaching fractal complexity, and ultimately a function that
>is somewhere between choas and order. ...

>All the best - c!!!

Bifurcative replications -- this reminds me of folding from crease
patterns, something I have so far failed completely at doing.  My mind is
still turning over Jun Maekawa's Extraterrestrial Being from Origami for
the Connoisseur.  I attempted it once months ago, with no success.  Carol
Martinson, I think, at ORCA mentioned looking for bird base patterns, and
working from there.  Also, Chris Palmer taught a couple patterns, based on
crease patterns.  The results were gorgeous.  I gathered a few more clues,
but I still have a ways to go.

But an uncut piece of paper is flat (however folded), so it remains a
problem of geometry rather than topography unless you consider the places
it touches itself connections, doesn't it?

Anna

Anna Weathers, Portland, Oregon, USA
"In paradox truth."





From: "Kennedy, Mark" <KennedyM@DNB.COM>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Photo Back drop paper & Coloring

Last year at the winter break my step daughter worked at a photo supply
store. I was able to pick up a few rolls at near cost - about $12 a roll
instead of $20+. It is about four feet wide - I don't remember the length. I
found it to be a bit like Cason paper  in texture and it shredded the same
when over wet. I placed 2 inch clear packing tape on the inside of the model
at the stress points before folding. I did a Cerceda's Flamingo that came
out about 2 feet tall. I need to do some more as lawn ornaments for Origami
Parties.
I use the pool table that my wife won through a contest at work for  a large
flat surface.

For multiple sheets of the same color, I dye the paper. I got the idea from
Michael Shall who got it from his brother, David. David was using
cottonballs and liquid watercolors. When I first started, I quickly switched
to kitchen sponges since they release the paint easier than the cotton
balls. I found that the watercolors faded over time and if they got wet they
splotched.  I am now using liquid acrylics thinned with Marbleze. This is
colorfast. The paint must me flexible which is why I use the acrylics. Some
day I will have to try airbrushing the colors on the paper.

Mark





From: Doug and Anna Weathers <dougw@RDROP.COM>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: NO: Food (was RE: other cultures)

Ah, food.  I can't resist adding a few comments.

We eat some fast food.  Trying to have lunch with my husband on a one hour
break, we sometimes need the speed or the low price.  Not burgers --
usually Taco Bell or bento.  And for some reason, I crave fried chicken
when coming down with a cold.  Not more than a couple times a week for me,
more for Doug since he works out of the house.

I like to walk a mile to the natural foods market and pick up fresh produce
two or three times a week, and base our meals around that.  It's a
significant time commitment.  Worth it to me, but I can't blame people who
want their food more conveniently than that.  Everyone has to pick their
priorities.

As to doughnuts -- only once have I found some good enough to buy twice.
My mom made them twice a year when I was growing up, and most fall so far
below her standard that they don't appeal to me.  The one exception was a
place in San Francisco, not far off the cable line, near the Holiday Inn.
So I don't miss doughnut places, and at least most of the coffee shops can
get me steamed soy milk...

Anna
P.S.  David Whitbeck wrote:

> My interactions with the world have been limited
>to Davis and home, where my mother cooks everything.  So it is difficult to
>get a feel for most other places.

This hits on an excellent point.  Sampling error -- having experience that
is in some way not representative -- happens all the time.  And, Decision
Research, where I interned many, many years ago, made some quality studies
showing that people base their understanding on what they encounter.
Logical enough, right?  But it sometimes makes me worry about how watching
a digest of the worst news drawn from the entire world every evening
affects one's perceptions....

Anna Weathers, Portland, Oregon, USA
"In paradox truth."





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: "Bad" books (was Re: Where is my cousin when I need her???)

At 12:10 99/08/18 -0300, Carlos Alberto Furuti wrote:
>And surely MB (sorry, "Mythical Beings") is not the unique or worst
>book in the diagram quality arena. If you want "hours of frustration",
>take Gery Hsu's HtMOATF (ok, ok, "How to Make Origami Airplanes That
>Fly") for a ride.

Beware. Gery is also on the 'Net (but not on this list). Gery has told me
that he really didn't know much about diagramming when he wrote that book,
and that he now realizes just how bad it really is. Unfortunately, Dover
will keep it in print forever now...

Gery also told me that he's been working on a number of animals using an
"animal base" that he's developed. I've yet to see his new work.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: Tangents on Origami

>From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
>
>> Questions of mine own: is a topology an important field for origami?  What
>> about other stuff?

There are a number of people on this list who could answer this well. (Tom
Hull? Where are you?)

Please note also that this topic has been discussed in the past. Check out
the archives for details.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@AHAND.UNICAMP.BR>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: [NO NO NO] Re: C++ is amazing!

>>From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>

C++ is at least thrice as big as C, and at least ten times more difficult
to master. It is surely better in larger projects, when working in a team
and when code must change and cope with future features. For many simple
projects, classes are not much better than conventional structs.

C++ is a worthy effort to enhance C. Unfortunately, its features are
not well integrated. I've followed its evolution and I think most of C++
features were introduced to fix problems caused by early features. For
instance, references must exist only because otherwise operators =, [],
<< and >> cannot be properly overloaded; exceptions are needed, otherwise
memory leaks awfully in case of errors; the "new" operator and the "new"
function are needed, otherwise we cannot overload the latter; if there's
new and delete, why not a realloc-style "renew"?. Even features which
fix some bugs create their own can of worms - see exception handling
and multiple inheritance - the concepts are simple but lead to a number
of traps.

>>powerful programs that work better than a C program where a C program would
>>be much, much larger using procedural functions.  I have to reccommend any
           Only valid for mid-to-large projects, or when similar concepts
(classes) are used over and over again with variations. If your types are
all completely different, no advantage here.

>>list have any comments, good or bad, about C++ or C?  I personally hate C
>>because it's so awkward and that horrible scanf errors!??!
(v)scanf/fscanf/sscanf may be error-prone, but formatted I/O is much
more concise with them and the printf family than with C++ streams, even
with manipulators. On the other hand, the concept of nesting I/O
objects to create more and more powerful streams is very attractive.

And remember, for a long time no true C++ compilers existed: they only
converted the C++ code to C, then called a dumb C compiler --- therefore
anything you can write in C++ can be written in C (with more effort to be
sure). Also, the first version of C++ was little more than a bunch of macros
and #include tricks to be used in ordinary C compilers.

        Sincerely,
                Carlos
        furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





From: Jorma Oksanen <tenu@SCI.FI>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: CD case

I revised my diagrams for the double-CD case and added some notes to
them.  I also added diagrams for my highly non-original two-piece
box to my page at

http://www.sci.fi/~tenu/origami.html

Now, if I can find something I did last year I can add diagrams on
one-per-year basis!  :)

--
Jorma Oksanen   tenu@sci.fi

Weyland-Yutani - Building Better Worlds





From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@AHAND.UNICAMP.BR>
Date: 18 Aug 1999
Subject: Re: Where is my cousin when I need her???

>>From: Jansill@AOL.COM

Actually I remember the author's previous self defense about [Origami
Monsters and other] Mythical Beings, the second of a pair of origami
books by Jay Ansill. It's a fair warning to "budding authors" that
little in the book publishing business is under their control, and
a fairer warning to readers about the importance of encouraging
and properly rewarding authors and creators [that includes
people like Kunihiko KASAHARA (OftC), RJLang (Origami Animals, Origami
in Action), Ansill (Origami 1 and 2 aka MB) and Kanegae (Arte dos
Mestres de Origami) who publish books including few or no models
of their own, but several models by others which otherwise would
never be commercially available].

In my first post I stuck my neck out by pointing actual titles IMHO
faulty in one way or other. I could have done better and discuss
at length why I think of them that way.

>>didn't want his "vision" to be "influenced". I wanted to murder him! I really
>>hate those pictures,,,the Deadalus..such a geraceful and beautiful
>>model..looks like a piece of crumbled paper!

If I remember well, the book cites the photographer in connection with
culinary books... Well, next time someone photographs a model over the
picture of a mountain, make sure the model's shadow does not project
over the *sky* in the pic...

>>anyway...I agree with what you say and I apologize for the hours of
>>frustration I've doubtless caused many folders!

As I mentioned before, annoying as some faults can be, they wouldn't
by themselves prevent me from buying again from the same author: the
model selection is much more important for me [Zulal Ayture-Scheele
books do not count]. I would applaud a new printing of MB, even with
the old diagrams. While models like Matthew Green's long-tailed
dragon, Alvarez's Daedalus and Kirschenbaum's rearing dragon can be
found elsewhere, the book is a unique collection of several attractive
models.

And surely MB (sorry, "Mythical Beings") is not the unique or worst
book in the diagram quality arena. If you want "hours of frustration",
take Gery Hsu's HtMOATF (ok, ok, "How to Make Origami Airplanes That
Fly") for a ride.

        Sincerely,
                Carlos
        furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti
