




From: Ronald Koh <ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 08:22:18 +0800
Subject: Re: [NO] Re:      Re: Sv:      Re: Realistic flying origami helicopter?

I've been on Origami-L for something like two weeks, and it has been quite an
educational experience; computer viruses and quirks, paleontology, aerodynamics
- you name it. It didn't take long to know who the jokers are! And the
controversy ....

While we are in that kind of mood, here's another one: That fruit is no kiwi -
it's a Chinese gooseberry - no, its not a cross between a goose and a berry -
that somehow found it's way to NZ from China. And the over-ripe ones do fly -
with the help of human propulsion, and if the target is tempting enough (want
some, Ariel? Plenty in Singapore).

On a more serious note, although it may sound silly: Can someone please tell me
where I can get info on Montroll's closed back concept, design, or whatever? I
live in the backwaters of origami, and the first I ever heard of it was over
Origami-L.

Regards.

madawson wrote:

> Kiwi - A wingless, flightless fruit.
>
> But the apple.......... while it does not fly up, Newton discovered that it
> does fly down! (Although not gracefully)  But does it rotate while it
> falls????? <g>
>
> MASD
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Robby/Laura <morassi@ZEN.IT>
> To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
> Date: Thursday, June 10, 1999 3:07 PM
> Subject: Re: Sv: Re: Realistic flying origami helicopter?
>
> >ThoKalmon,
> >At 00.46 10/6/1999 +0200, you wrote:
> >
> >>Does the Kiwi have wings ?
> >>
> >
> >No. It belongs to the genus Apteryx, meaning "without wings". To be exact,
> >its feathers hide a pair of rough useless "wings" a few cm. long.
> >
> >The kiwi FRUIT, however, has NO wings at all. Not even beak, legs or tail.
> >A very sad thing.
> >
> >Roberto





From: Dennis Walker <TheWalkers@INAME.COM>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 09:58:00 +0100
Subject: Back on Line

Hello everyone,

        After a long absence my Web page is back! It's mainly origami and
patchwork stuff.

The address is www.prospero78.freeserve.co.uk

Please update any links or pay me a visit!

                                Dennis





From: Howard Portugal <howardp@FAST.NET>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:02:00 -0700
Subject: Lang's Cuckoo Clock

I'm going to attempt Robert Lang's Cuckoo Clock from The Complete book
of Origami. The paper dimensions stated are 1:7. Can anyone tell me how
these relate to the finished product? For example, a 1" x 7" strip would
give a model 0.125" high or something like that. The reason is that I
don't want to start with a sheet that will give me finger trauma and a
finished product the size of a kernel of corn ;-)

Thanks,

Howard

--
Howard Portugal, Woodinville, WA email:howardp@fast.net
---------------------------------------------------
"A problem worthy of attack, proves its worth by fighting back." -- Piet
Hein





From: Sebastian Marius Kirsch <skirsch@T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:07:28 +0200
Subject: Re: [NO] Re:      Re: Sv:      Re: Realistic flying origami helicopter?

On Fri, Jun 11, 1999 at 05:58:08PM -0700, David Whitbeck wrote:
> ps does anybody know when his next book will be out and what will the
> theme be?

I don't know, I can only tell you that all the models he brought with
him to the Origami Deutschland convention last year had a closed back.

--
Yours, Sebastian                                       skirsch@t-online.de
                        /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





From: Peter Budai <peterbud@MAIL.DATATRANS.HU>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:08:14 -0400
Subject: Re: Origami-l membersat the convention

At 09:20 PM 6/11/99 +0000, Rachel Katz wrote:

>If OUSA convention goers from this list would like, I've got hundreds of
little
>round tropical fish stickers (Okay, they're not origami). I'll have them at
>registration and at the information table in the hospitality area. Just
request
>one to stick on to your badge and we'll be able to recognize other origami-L
>members.

Thanks Rachel, I'll take one!  ;-)

See you conventioneers at the Convention!

Peter Budai





From: Peter Budai <peterbud@MAIL.DATATRANS.HU>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:08:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Complex Frog Base Model

At 10:57 PM 6/11/99 -0400, you wrote:

>I've got good models for the fish and bird bases, but I can't find an
>adequately complex model that begins with the frog base.

Well, probably the stink bug in one of Montroll's earlier books (Animal
Origami for the Enthusiast or Origami for the Enthusiast, I don't remember
which one)?

Happy lecturing!

Peter Budai





From: Peter Budai <peterbud@MAIL.DATATRANS.HU>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:08:20 -0400
Subject: Safari Origami (Re: NOA contact)

At 09:40 PM 6/11/99 +0200, you wrote:

>Lionel Albertino, a great french folder,
>...NOA email...
>It's for his next book, which will be on human models.
>Have you bough his last one : Safari Origami :

A really nice book! It has about 30 models or more concerning African flora
and fauna. Worth to buy ;-)  (No, I don't get money from the publisher... ;-(

Have a good Safari,

Peter Budai





From: Rjlang@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:16:51 -0400 (
Subject: Origamist recognized by IEEE

Origami-math aficionados might be interested to know that David Huffman,
professor emeritus at UC Santa Cruz, has been awarded the IEEE Richard W.
Hamming Medal for 1999. Huffman is known to origamists as the author of
"Curvature and Creases: a Primer on Paper," one of the earlier (ca. 1970)
origami-math papers in the genre. He is also quite famous in computer science
for the invention of Huffman codes, used in data compression and storage.

For many years, he has worked on geometric origami patterns based on curved
creases and exhibited some of his work at Xerox PARC this past year (where I
had the privilege of meeting him for the first time). As his biography
describes it, "his work on the mathematical properties of 'zero curvature'
surfaces led to the discovery of his own techniques for folding paper into
unusual sculptured shapes."

Robert J. Lang





From: Rjlang@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 11:54:32 -0400 (
Subject: Re: closed backs...

Nick wrote:

> Seriously, closed backs represent a design challenge
> taken up in the 80's by Brill, Hulme etc & more recently by Robert
> Lang. John [Montroll] adopted this "restriction" more recently.

Actually, most of my closed-back designs are late '80's vintage. "More
recently", I've gone back to open-back for many designs, some of which I'll
be showing at OUSAcon99.

Robert





From: Yurii and Katrin Shumakovs <origami@AAANET.RU>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 17:05:50 +0300
Subject: Re: Origami Tanteidan Convention '99

>
>Date:    Wed, 9 Jun 1999 14:30:13 +0200
>From:    Julius Kusserow <juku@MATHEMATIK.HU-BERLIN.DE>
>Subject: Origami Tanteidan Convention '99
>
>Hi,
> have planned to visit the Origami Tantaidan in Tokyo this year.
>Have anyone from this list also the plan to participate to this
>Convention ?
>
>Julius
>

Hello, Julius.

This year we had honour to receive the prize-winning Yoshino Issei Fund
Invitation to the 5-th Convention Origami Tanteidan.
http://origami.gr.jp/
And we are going to advance from Russia to Japan in August.

Yurii and Katrin

ORILAND - THE PAPER'S WORLD
www.origami.aaanet.ru
Yurii and Katrin Shumakov,
Origami artists and psychologists
origami@aaanet.ru
ICQ UIN 37464409





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 19:18:36 +0100
Subject: Re: closed backs...

Rjlang@AOL.COM sez

>Actually, most of my closed-back designs are late '80's vintage.

Clearly, that's what I meant, late 80's being more recent than early-
80's. Cough! Sorry to get the chronology wrong.

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - now featuring soda syphons!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos





From: Kenny1414@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 20:35:34 -0400 (
Subject: Re: Lang's Cuckoo Clock

In a message dated 99-06-12 14:15:27 EDT, Howard Portugal writes:

> I'm going to attempt Robert Lang's Cuckoo Clock from The Complete book
>  of Origami. The paper dimensions stated are 1:7. Can anyone tell me how
>  these relate to the finished product?

Aloha Howard,

I tried it once, with Rae Cooker, at her home in Midland, Michigan.
She had a roll of white paper, maybe shelf paper, I don't remember.
We were either using 1 foot by 7 feet, or 1-1/2 feet by 10-1/2 feet,
or something like that. Basically I just squared off the paper, then
fanfolded 7 squares worth.

The result, after much struggling, was a little clock, about 8 inches
high, I think. I gave mine to Rae Cooker, and haven't tried that since.
Still don't know what was supposed to hold the roof-ridge of the
clock together. The bird did pop out, tho, once I figured how to move
that little lever/handle.

I do remember having to look v-e-r-y carefully at both my model and the
diagrams and instructions. I kept muttering to myself variations on
"That's impossible. There's no such <flap, crease, whatever>. Oh!"
over and over, as I slowly identified the flaps and layers with their
diagrammed appearance.

Just remember, ' When in doubt, the diagrams are right'.
Except, like I said, maybe, for the locking of the roof.

Sorry I don't remember more, and Rae Cooker isn't online to ask.

Aloha,

Kenneth M. Kawamura ( kenny1414@aol.com )
328 N. Fairview
Lansing, MI 48912-3110





From: Paul Chabot <OrKman15@AOL.COM>
Date: Sat, 12 Jun 1999 23:58:39 -0400 (
Subject: Maekawa's Devil

Allo,

        Has anyone succesfully managed to collapse that hideously difficult
crease pattern that was available from the Tanteidan web site. I've just
started it and I have managed to finish the top section for the most part.
Does anyone know how to get to the finished devil from the base... and more
importantly just what is the base supposed to look like?

Paul Chabot





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 01:59:43 -0700
Subject: Re: More about Butterfly competition!

>Dino,
>        As you know, origami that is left "sitting" for a day plus... loosen
>up.  Are we allowed to "glue", "tac" it in place on something so as to
>keep it in the sharpest creased form? i.e. butterfly placed on a leaf,
>rock etc.
>
>Aloha, Jan

I'm curious about what kind of paper that happens so that I can avoid it.
I have models laying around for a few weeks that haven't loosened up, and
are just like how I've had it originally, these are made of origami paper.
There are some from typewriter paper that I folded that hasn't changed for
years (when I lived at home my mother wouldn't let me throw away my origami
so it accumulated into one room became practically a showcase room for
origami which is absurd, but our ferocious kitty tore most of it up playing
with it.)

        While I'm at it does anyone know a systematic way to do that step
in the beginning of the scorpion from Lang's complete book  where you have
to do a series of valley and mountain folds that heptasect the angle?  I
accidently folded it close to right but I'd feel better if there was some
sort of method to do that right.  Thanks.  Happy folding.

David

"One step, and he stopped, the blood draining from his face.  'You?  No!'
The word still hung in the air when death took him."





From: Rob Moes <robert.moes@SNET.NET>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 08:59:06 -0400
Subject: Re: Polite resquest on "Whoa on Yoshizawa -bashing"

It's obvious to me that Jan Fodor simply did not wish to offend "the
Master," which is her prerogative.  No need to belabor that point any
further, I hope!

It's also obvious that Yoshizawa the mighty Pharaoh wishes to be buried
with so many of his origami children beside him.  That is also his
prerogative.  I'm sure he's fully aware that people will declare him to be
wasteful and self-serving.

We all do what we think is best.

Rob
robert.moes@snet.net  --> robmoes@earthlink.net





From: "Michael J. Naughton" <mjnaught@CROCKER.COM>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:00:38 -0400
Subject: [NO] In Defense of Continuing Discussion

Joseph Wu wrote:
>Yes. . . and we have discussed it to death already. . .

I'm afraid I have to disagree; we have discussed it at
length, more than once, but I don't think that "we"
(meaning those who have participated in the discussions,
to say nothing of the larger "origami community") have
reached anything approaching consensus on most of the
issues in question.

I also think that while some people may feel that their
opinions are rock solid and see no benefit in continuing
to express them, others of us may actually find our
thinking evolving as a result of hashing and rehashing our
views. Using myself as an example, I am increasingly
sympathetic to Joseph's insistence that creators' wishes
deserve some sort of respect. I still have trouble, though,
with how those wishes should be expressed and whether
in all cases others should feel obligated to follow them
("respect", after all, is not quite the same as "obey").

I think, for example, that if someone freely publishes
diagrams (or a how-to video, or whatever), without clearly
indicating restrictions on how the final products may be
used, then the rest of us have a right to assume that we
can do pretty much what we want with them (the models we
make, that is -- not the diagrams or videos). However, I
am not 100% comfortable with this opinion -- right now it
just makes more sense to me then any of the alternatives.

I also wonder whether, if a creator were to expressly forbid
certain groups from folding the models -- based perhaps on
ethnic and/or religious identification -- whether the rest
of us should feel obligated to follow along. This is probably
an extreme example, but I think we all need to remember that
creator's wishes may not always be reasonable or easily
defensible. Are we really supposed to believe that "respect"
_does_ mean "obey", and it means so always in all cases? This
seems like an extreme position, yet to back off from it raises
the question of how to decide when to obey and when not to.

There's also the whole area of derived work -- models based on
someone else's ideas and/or creations -- which some have argued
comprises the vast majority of origami today. Creators who are
very protective of "their rights" to "their models" seem less
willing to grant similar rights to those who have inspired them.
If A. Y. is really the inventor of "realistic" origami, given
his well-known attitude towards his creations, why don't all
creators of "realistic" models ask his permission before doing
anything? The argument that "if it's really pretty much a copy,
I'll give credit, but if it's my own idea I don't" doesn't give
us much real guidance. If it basically comes down to the opinion
of the creator, why doesn't the maker of origami earrings or a
floral wedding bouquet have the same right to claim they have
done something "original"?

There are a number of other questions: does the music industry
model really make sense, for example (or is the magicians' model
more appropriate, or some other model?) With all respect to
Joseph, I don't think we have "killed" any of them yet, and I
don't think we will for a while yet. I think the discussions are
useful, and I'd like to see them keep going.

Mike "Set Your Mail Filters to 'Stun'" Naughton





From: Carmine Di Chiara <carmine_dichiara@YAHOO.COM>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:33:30 -0700
Subject: Montrol's Rhino

Hi.

I have _Origami for the Enthusiast_ by Montroll, but
not _Origami Sculptures_. How similar are the rhinos
in each?

Thanks,

Carmine

===
-------
Carmine Di Chiara
carmine_dichiara@yahoo.com
        Beyond each corner new directions lie in wait.
                - Stanislaw Lec
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From: Carmine Di Chiara <carmine_dichiara@YAHOO.COM>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 12:44:43 -0700
Subject: Chinese Phoenix in Tantiedan 3rd Convention...

There is a beautiful phoenix on pages 36-39 of the
Origami Tanteidan 3rd Convention collection, made from
three pieces of paper.

Does it stay together of its own accord, or would I
have to use glue? I can't read Japanese, and I can't
tell visually when they're locked together.

You can see the step I'm talking about on page 39.

Thanks,

Carmine

===
-------
Carmine Di Chiara
carmine_dichiara@yahoo.com
        Beyond each corner new directions lie in wait.
                - Stanislaw Lec
_________________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:15:09 -0700
Subject: Re: Montrol's Rhino

>Hi.
>
>I have _Origami for the Enthusiast_ by Montroll, but
>not _Origami Sculptures_. How similar are the rhinos
>in each?
>
>Thanks,
>
>Carmine
>
>
>===
>-------
>Carmine Di Chiara
>carmine_dichiara@yahoo.com
>        Beyond each corner new directions lie in wait.
>                - Stanislaw Lec
>_________________________________________________________
>Do You Yahoo!?
>Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

They're pretty different.  The folding patterns are different and the
results are.  I like the Sculptures one better because it looks more
lifelike, 3d and it even has a tongue!  Happy folding :)

David





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:48:08 -0700
Subject: Lizard paper and complex frog base model

Does anybody know what Lizard paper is good for?  I mean is it good for
certain kinds of folds, or wetfolding, etc.?

For the frog base: (my obsession with shells is obvious) Kawasaki has a sea
snail shell, right after one of my favorites, the spiral.  The sea snail
shell is folded from the frog base.

David





From: Pat Slider <slider@STONECUTTER.COM>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 13:53:36 -0700
Subject: Re: Polite resquest on "Whoa on Yoshizawa -bashing"

>It's also obvious that Yoshizawa the mighty Pharaoh wishes to be buried
>with so many of his origami children beside him.  That is also his
>prerogative.  I'm sure he's fully aware that people will declare him to be
>wasteful and self-serving.

I certainly won't. He has shared quite a bit. Sure he doesn't diagram
everything. When would he fold? He diagrams a percentage, perhaps what he
deems we folk have the best chance of rendering, and I'm happy with that.

Besides...ever consider that he doesn't want to see hundreds of substandard
versions of his models lurking about? That must be painful! He obviously
puts his heart into his work. I expect he really might consider them his
"children". It is certainly his right to keep them as unique sculptures,
and as long as they aren't going into the trash I see no waste in that.

>From the description in Engel's books it sounds as if all his models are
being carefully preserved. I expect the best of his work will find a home
in a museum someday.  Given the paper quality his models should last
hundreds of years for generations to enjoy.

pat slider.





From: Ronald Koh <ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:27:51 +0800
Subject: Re: Montroll's closed back

> David Whitbeck wrote:
>
> I can tell you as an avid Montroll fan that he has published a myriad
> of books, but none that I know of that discuss his design techniques,
> but you can get a good sense of the techniques themselves by simply
> buying one or
> two of his books.  Some of my favorites are: Origami Scultptures,
> North American Animals, African Animals, Mythological Creatures and
> the Chinese Zodiac, Origami for the Enthusiast, Origami Sea Life, so
> okay I admit I
> like about everything he wrote.  My top nomination would be Origami
> Sculptures, but since it limits itself mostly to the dog base and the
> insect base another book like North American Animals might be better
> to see some variation on bases.
>
> Thanks, David:
>
> I actually have everyone of those books, although I admit North
> American Animals, African Animals and Chinese Zodiac have been sitting
> on my shelves for well over a year, barely touched. (I am an avid
> Montroll fan too, but unfortunately not the kind of leisure time on my
> hands as I would like).
>
> I was wondering if the closed back technic is something newer than
> what he has published in his books.

Nick Robinson wrote:

  It's no mystery, you basically make his designs inside out & voila!
The   back is closed! Seriously, closed backs represent a design
challenge   taken up in the 80's by Brill, Hulme etc & more recently by
Robert Lang.  John adopted this "restriction" more recently.

That's it? Thanks, Nick.





From: Ronald Koh <ronkoh@SINGNET.COM.SG>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 14:36:32 +0800
Subject: Re: Butterfly competition

Paul & Jan Fodor wrote:

> What a sweetheart you are Michael.  I love your butterflies.  They are doing
     very
> well in my jewelery collection.  At first I thought they might be too fragile
     to
> use as jewelry but I don't know what I feared because the washi is so strong
     and
> your design so lovely that I know people will take care of it to make it last.
>

Michael:

Are there plans to convert your excellent series of videos to CDs or rewritten
     as
books? Videotapes rapidly become mushroom farms (fungus!) in the tropical,
high-humidity climate I live in.





From: Dino Andreozzi <dion@HEM.PASSAGEN.SE>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:05:30 +0200
Subject: Re: More about Butterfly competition!

Dear Paul and Jan,
you can glue the model/s to a rock or a leaf for the exhibition. I =
understand that people want to show their folded models in the best way. =
If I don't remember wrong I read in a book that it is allowed to use =
wires or other kind of helping materials to keep models in the best =
shape for an exhibition (I don't believe that the T-rex model showed at =
the last Origami Festival in Charlotte could stay without any wires). =
About the butterfly competition I must say that I'm very sad that the =
discussions have been on copyright, permission and A.Y. and not about =
folding models. It seems that some people don't appreciate the effort =
that every paperfolder does in folding a model, it doesn't matter if =
they are the creators or not. When I fold a model from a book I always =
try to make that model in my own  way , using my own feelings. I can =
never fold one of M. LaFosse butterflies as he does and that's because =
we put different feelings in the folding process. I have done hundred =
hours of teaching and sometimes when I teach some my models I feel that =
it is very hard to make other people understand what my fingers do with =
the paper. If someone can fold one of my models with a better result =
that my own , I'm just proud about that. The butterfly competition has =
be done to try to promote origami in Sweden. It is also very important =
to show that origami IS NOT something that only japaneses do. That's why =
we decided to extend the partecipation to everyone in this planet. If =
someone would like to send a model only for the exhibition. .well, do =
it! My dream was from the beginning to see a room filled with hundred of =
beautiful butterfly models coming from everywhere in the world folded =
with different kind of papers and showing that we can fold paper in =
different way, showing that origami is also an art and not only a hobby. =
For those of you who don't know it there is hundred origami competitions =
organized very year in different countries, just to give an example I =
can meantion the "Useful Origami" competition aranged by the CDO last =
year, the first price was to attend their convention this year.=20

To all the members of this list:
If you are a creator and you wouldn't like to see one of your models =
folded by another person in the Origami Butterfly Competition/Exhibition =
please tell the rest of the members of the list and Origami Sweden so we =
can avoid to have them paretcipating in the competition.=20

Allen Perry wrote to me:
>Paper doesn't require skill less you hand-make the paper

I don't agree with that. I have tried to fold my frog with different =
kind of papers and there is a lot of them that don't give the model the =
right  finish. I saw an origami exhibition here in Stockholm for a =
couple of years ago, great models , many of the high complex, folded =
very well but with the wrong paper, they looked terrible. Sometime we =
forget that what we do is folding PAPER. The paper should be one of the =
most important thing to choose if you are going to show the model in an =
exhibition. We should have more respect for the material we use. Since =
three years ago I started a co-operation with a swedish paper =
manufacturer to try to find the right paper for origami, a paper made to =
be folded. I mean.. when you must buy paper for your printer or =
faxmachine you don't buy origami paper, you don't use wrapping paper and =
so on. Every kind of paper is made for a purpose. Paper with long fibers =
is the best paper for paperfolding but it is also the worst paper for =
printing. The elephant hide paper is very good for wet-folding, but did =
we never ask ourselves why? What kind of properties has that paper?=20

Regards

Dino

>Fr=E5n: Paul & Jan Fodor <origami@ALOHA.NET>
Till: <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Skickat: den 9 juni 1999 22:17
=C4mne: Re: More about Butterfly competition!

> Dino,
>         As you know, origami that is left "sitting" for a day plus... =
loosen
> up.  Are we allowed to "glue", "tac" it in place on something so as to
> keep it in the sharpest creased form? i.e. butterfly placed on a leaf,
> rock etc.
>=20
> Aloha, Jan





From: "Dolphin G." <dolphing@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 15:14:57 -0700 (
Subject: Re: Rhinos (was Re: Elephant fold)

{
>I've always wondered if John had thought of Dave's rhino himself.
>It's interesting that two of John's (In Sculpures and African Animals)
>rhinos are very similar structurally to Dave's.

Are they? I don't think so. John's two rhinos you mentioned are from
different bases; the one in OS shares the base with his hippo, whereas
the one in AAIO is made from the dog base. The dog base is slightly more
efficient than the hippo base, so the rhino from AAIO is slightly bigger
when made from the same size of paper. But unfortunately, the dog base
is better suited for ... well ... dogs (and camels!) than for rhinos.

And Dave uses yet another base, which is shared by a rhino by Kunihiko
Kasahara, as Kuni notes somewhere in one of his "Nuev[ao]" books.

--
Yours, Sebastian                                       skirsch@t-online.de
                        /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)

}

The bases are definitely different, so there shouldn't be a problem of the
dreaded copyright infringement here!  What I was trying to say is that all
three rhinos get most of their points from the same area of paper, and in
similar ways, with a few exceptions.  Robert Lang wrote about this in
Origami Zoo regarding his and Engel's butterflies.  I don't remember his
exact words, but basically he said that designers often come up with the
same ______  (can't remember what he called it) but use different strategies
to achieve that goal.

_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com





From: "Shi-Yew Chen (a.k.a. Sy)" <sychen@EROLS.COM>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 16:19:31 -0400
Subject: Re: Complex Frog Base Model

I did ask similar questions before. I found there are more "pre-frog" based
models available. You may use pre-frog base as another example.
Cerceda has several published models from frog base in the book, "Facinating
Origami". It is interesting that they are all birds. Most of them are from
stretched frog base (did I coin this one?). Have a look if complexity is not
a big issue to you.

JC Nolan has a spider base based on pre-frog base. Some of the designs in
his book are based on spider base. I believe Patricia Crawfords' scorpian
could be started from pre-frog base. I would love to know if you found any
other good examples.

Good luck.

Sy Chen

PS: How about making up one for dinosaur? (I know you can. I know you can!)





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:37:34 -0700
Subject: Re: [NO] In Defense of Continuing Discussion

At 12:00 99/06/13 -0400, Michael Naughton wrote:
>Joseph Wu wrote:
>>Yes. . . and we have discussed it to death already. . .
>
>I'm afraid I have to disagree; we have discussed it at
>length, more than once, but I don't think that "we"
>(meaning those who have participated in the discussions,
>to say nothing of the larger "origami community") have
>reached anything approaching consensus on most of the
>issues in question.

<rest of message deleted>

Michael, thank you for your message. I felt that we had "discussed it to
death" because of certain messages I'd received both on the list and in
private saying that people were tired of this issue. But this list is about
open communications, so if anyone wishes to continue the discussion, please
do so. I'll try to limit my responses to new material only, and will refer
people to the archives for points I've already made.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:39:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Chinese Phoenix in Tantiedan 3rd Convention...

At 12:44 99/06/13 -0700, you wrote:
>There is a beautiful phoenix on pages 36-39 of the
>Origami Tanteidan 3rd Convention collection, made from
>three pieces of paper.
>
>Does it stay together of its own accord, or would I
>have to use glue? I can't read Japanese, and I can't
>tell visually when they're locked together.
>
>You can see the step I'm talking about on page 39.

It looks like there's a tongue-in-slot arrangement to attach the sides to
the main body (tongue on the side, and slots on the main body), but it does
not look strong enough to hold well without glue. Mind you, I've not
actually tried the model...

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:41:56 -0700
Subject: Re: Complex Frog Base Model

Hojo's "Maitreya" from the Origami Tanteidan 4th Convention collection is
made from a modified frog base (although it's hard to see since he starts
with a bird base and then squashes it later).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 18:43:08 -0700
Subject: Re: Polite resquest on "Whoa on Yoshizawa -bashing"

At 13:53 99/06/13 -0700, pat slider wrote:
>From the description in Engel's books it sounds as if all his models are
>being carefully preserved. I expect the best of his work will find a home
>in a museum someday.  Given the paper quality his models should last
>hundreds of years for generations to enjoy.

He told me that he would donate his entire collection to UNICEF.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: madawson <madawson@SPRYNET.COM>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:26:03 -0700
Subject: Re: Chatrooms

Susan, there is an origami chat room that meets on Tuesday night starting at
9:00 EST (East coast USA).  Send me your e-mail address and I will find out
how you can join in on it.  I received an invitation & I have to go back &
check my e-mails to see where it came from.

MaryAnn Scheblein-Dawson
madawson@sprynet.com

"Fold something.  You'll feel better."

-----Original Message-----
From: Susan Johnston <supersuzy2000@HOTMAIL.COM>
To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 11:29 AM
Subject: Chatrooms

>Hi its me again asking about something else this time!
>
>Does anyone know of any origami 'chatrooms' on the internet.  I've seen
>charooms on Yahoo Chat which are for other hobbies and there's one for
>Japanese Anime but there's not one for origami. :-(
>
>If you do know of any, please let me know. Thanks in advance.
>
>Susan Johnston ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: madawson <madawson@SPRYNET.COM>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:59:44 -0700
Subject: Re: Origami-l membersat the convention

Thanks Rachel - that sounds great.

MASD

p.s. (PERSONAL)  I spoke with Bianca  (& Martha) & we are all set for
convention.  See you there!

-----Original Message-----
From: Rachel Katz <mandrk@MAIL.PB.NET>
To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 6:24 PM
Subject: Origami-l membersat the convention

> Is there a way for O-List members to idendtify each other at Convention
> (other than recognising names on the name tags)  ie a symbol on the name
> tags?????
>

If OUSA convention goers from this list would like, I've got hundreds of
little
round tropical fish stickers (Okay, they're not origami). I'll have them at
registration and at the information table in the hospitality area. Just
request
one to stick on to your badge and we'll be able to recognize other origami-L
members.

Rachel Katz
Origami - it's not just for squares!





From: Tiffany Tam <origamiwing@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 20:20:07 -0700 (
Subject: paper for cranes

hello, I have a question regarding the paper we should use for making the
cranes to be sent to colorado, does the paper have to be navy blue? because
I found some paper of rich blue and azure blue.  Thank you.

Wing ( I must not get online anymore until schoo lis finished, so please
take your tome replying =)

PS, for those who are in MIT, can you please give me some information about
the requirments for applying to this college? I wish I can attend college
there but I don't think I have the suitable grades and because my English is
not that good, so please introduce to me what I need in order to apply
there, thank you.

_______________________________________________________________
Get Free Email and Do More On The Web. Visit http://www.msn.com





From: Sebastian Marius Kirsch <skirsch@T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 21:46:57 +0200
Subject: Re: Montrol's Rhino

On Sun, Jun 13, 1999 at 12:33:30PM -0700, Carmine Di Chiara wrote:
> I have _Origami for the Enthusiast_ by Montroll, but
> not _Origami Sculptures_. How similar are the rhinos
> in each?

Very dissimilar, and the one in OS is much better.

--
Yours, Sebastian                                       skirsch@t-online.de
                        /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





From: david whitbeck <dmwhitbeck@UCDAVIS.EDU>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 22:34:02 -0700
Subject: Re: Complex frog base model

>  If anyone is interested, I can send sketches of my gryphon, dragon, and
>manticore which are out of a blintzed frog base, double blintzed for the
>manticore (Sounds ludicrously thick, but not really) I also have a variation
>on the traditional frog that uses the folding method for the frog with toes
>in Montroll's Animal Origami for the Enthusiast (to achieve toes obviuosly).
>I also have a quite lifelike treefrog from an offset frog base. If anyone is
>interested, let me know.
>
>Thanks,
>Paul Chabot

I'm very interested, the folds sound awesome!  And yes I know I still have
to put those elephant diagrams up on the web!  I've got them sitting right
by me, but heh I've been programming like mad to complete my last C program
for the course.

David





From: "James M. Sakoda" <James_Sakoda@BROWN.EDU>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:06:33 -0400
Subject: Re: Frog Base Models in Modern Origami

IIn Modern Origami, recently published by Dovef Publications, there is a
chapter on Frog Base Models, which includes the following:  dragon fly,
ballet dancer. skier, ape, cherry blossom.   Discovered much later is  the
flapping bird folded from the frog base but has narrow neck and tail as in
the traditional crane.    The flapping movement is good and is less likely
to tear than with the usually foled flapping bird from a bird base without
narrowing the neck and tail.  James M. Sakoda.





From: Peg Barber <m.m.barber@ATT.NET>
Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 23:26:44 +0000
Subject: [NO] dislocations

Just a quick note to let you all know that I will be
temporarily signing off the list while we move to
Cleveland.  Hopefully, I'll be back soon.

See you soon,
Peg Barber
m.m.barber@att.net





From: Paul Chabot <OrKman15@AOL.COM>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:17:49 -0400 (
Subject: Complex frog base model

  If anyone is interested, I can send sketches of my gryphon, dragon, and
manticore which are out of a blintzed frog base, double blintzed for the
manticore (Sounds ludicrously thick, but not really) I also have a variation
on the traditional frog that uses the folding method for the frog with toes
in Montroll's Animal Origami for the Enthusiast (to achieve toes obviuosly).
I also have a quite lifelike treefrog from an offset frog base. If anyone is
interested, let me know.

Thanks,
Paul Chabot





From: Chinh Nguyen <chinhsta@GWIS2.CIRC.GWU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 01:35:36 -0400
Subject: Re: Chinese Phoenix in Tantiedan 3rd Convention...

On Sun, 13 Jun 1999, Joseph Wu wrote:

> It looks like there's a tongue-in-slot arrangement to attach the sides to
> the main body (tongue on the side, and slots on the main body), but it does
> not look strong enough to hold well without glue. Mind you, I've not
> actually tried the model...

Unless I'm doing something wrong, there is no insert.  Glue is required
for assembly.  Even using Japanese foil, the model turns out *incredibly*
thick, and splays as a result.





From: sychen@EROLS.COM
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 05:11:04 -0800
Subject: Re: new folder

Try this photo illustrated steps:
http://www-personal.umich.edu/~adysart/origami/crane/crane1.html

or Hatori-san's animation
http://www.jade.dti.ne.jp/~hatori/studio/orizuru/index.html

Have fun!

Sy Chen

--- Original Message ---
bob brown <bbrown@IU.NET> Wrote on
        Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:26:56 -0700
 ------------------
good morning

i am a new folder and wondered if
someone could please send me a detail
that i could follow easily on folding paper
cranes.

thank you in advance

bob

************
bob brown
bob@strawberrys.com
melbourne.florida.usa
www.strawberrys.com

-----
Sent using MailStart.com ( http://MailStart.Com/welcome.html )
The FREE way to access your mailbox via any web browser, anywhere!





From: bob brown <bbrown@IU.NET>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 07:26:56 -0700
Subject: new folder

good morning

i am a new folder and wondered if
someone could please send me a detail
that i could follow easily on folding paper
cranes.

thank you in advance

bob

************
bob brown
bob@strawberrys.com
melbourne.florida.usa
www.strawberrys.com





From: Eric Pernin <pernin2@ART.ALCATEL.FR>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:09:41 +0200
Subject: Re: Complex Frog Base Model

On Fri, 11 Jun 1999, Jerry D. Harris wrote:

> Hi All -
>
>         I'm giving a presentation on origami this coming Thursday, and as
> part of the talk, I intend to show some of the common basic fold ("kite"
> base, fish base, bird base, and frog base) along with the traditional
> models folded from each one.  To contrast with each, I'd like to show a
> very complex model that begins with each base.  I've got good models for
> the fish and bird bases, but I can't find an adequately complex model that
> begins with the frog base.  All suggestions are welcome!  Thanks in
> advance...
>
>  _,_
>  ____/_\,) .. _
> --____-===( _\/ \\/ \-----_---__
>  /\ ' ^__/>/\____\--------
> __________/__\_ ____________________________.//__.//_________
>
>  Jerry D. Harris
>  Fossil Preparation Lab
>  New Mexico Museum of Natural History
>  1801 Mountain Rd NW
>  Albuquerque NM 87104-1375
>  Phone: (505) 899-2809
>  Fax: (505) 841-2866
>  102354.2222@compuserve.com
>
Starting with the frog base you can try the upper jaw of the t-rex
skeleton from Issei Yoshino (of course you will have to fold also the
lower jaw just to show people how it looks).
I thought of that because of the sketch at the end of your mail.

Eric





From: Allan findlay <a_findlay@EXCHANGE.CREATIONS.CO.UK>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:12:47 +0100
Subject: Re: AY's butterlfies ( or whoever's)

>Well, I haven't seen (and I hope not to see) any origami creator creating
>to receive money each time someone else folds his models...
>Of course, the creator gets some money for his books, but that's only one
>time, like when you buy a license.

Oops, I didn't mean to imply a royalty every time the library/diagram was
used, just everytime it is sold.

--------------------------
        Allan           (a_findlay@exchange.creations.co.uk)





From: Jane Rosemarin <jfrmpls@SPACESTAR.NET>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 10:18:07 -0500
Subject: Translation request

I would be very grateful if someone who both reads Japanese and owns
Kawasaki's "Rose, Origami and Mathematics" would translate the name of a
model for me.

It is the rose with calyx that begins on page 104. I will be displaying
this design as part of my exhibit at the OUSA convention.

I would be happy to send a scanned version of the characters, if that
would help.

Thanks very much.
-Jane





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:17:21 -0700
Subject: Totoro and Gigi the cat models

Robin Glynn has given me permission to put his diagrams for Totoro (from
"Tonari no Totoro" or "My Neighbour Totoro") and Gigi the cat (from "Kiki's
Delivery Service") on my website. Take a look at
<http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca/Files/models.html> or just visit my
website and follow the links in the "Diagrams" page. These files are in PDF
format.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Matthias Gutfeldt <tanjit@BBOXBBS.CH>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 11:34:57 +0200
Subject: paper matters (was RE: More about Butterfly competition! )

Dino Andreozzi wrote:
>Allen Perry wrote to me:
>>Paper doesn't require skill less you hand-make the paper
>I don't agree with that. I have tried to fold my frog with different
>kind of papers and there is a lot of them that don't give the model
>the right finish. I saw an origami exhibition here in Stockholm
>for a couple of years ago, great models , many of the high complex,
>folded very well but with the wrong paper, they looked terrible.
>Sometime we forget that what we do is folding PAPER. The paper
>should be one of the most important thing to choose if you are
>going to show the model in an exhibition. We should have more
>respect for the material we use.

I agree with Dino. As in any "art" or "craft" or "profession", knowing
as much as possible about the material we use is vital, and sometimes an
art in itself. Finding the right paper for the right model can be very
difficult. Hey, and finding the right model for that wonderful handmade
linen-paper-with-marble-dust can be even more difficult!

I started folding Origami around September 1996. I used cheap white
typing paper, magazines, and gift wrapping paper. Had to cut everything
to size, and sometimes the patterns and colours were more than
questionable (a tiger with a red rose pattern, whoah!).

And then, as a Christmas gift, my wife gave me a pack of REAL origami
paper. I almost fainted. No more cutting, one side white and one side
coloured, the paper was super thin, it didn't rip, it didn't lose its
shape, it held a crease. I'd never seen anything so perfect as these one
hundred sheets of square origami paper, 15x15cm.

That day, I really realized how important the paper is. No matter how
nice, technically challenging, or smartly designed a model may be, if
you don't have the right paper for it, it's just a waste of time.

Take just about any model you want, and fold it from ten different kinds
of paper, and in ten different sizes. And then pick out the one model
that looks good. If you're lucky.

Matthias, hunting for the perfect paper





From: Peter Budai <peterbud@MAIL.DATATRANS.HU>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 12:14:44 -0400
Subject: ReferenceFinder question

Hello,

Did anybody run ReferenceFinder successfully in Windows 3.11 so far (all I
am getting is an empty window), or is it intended for newer versions of
Windows?

Cheers, Peter Budai





From: Dorothy Engleman <FoldingCA@WEBTV.NET>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 14:23:33 -0700
Subject: Re: Keeping Fish Upright

Hi Sonia!

Is there room for you to attach the goldfish to some seaweed, which
should not be too difficult to design?

Dorothy





From: "Jerry D. Harris" <102354.2222@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 15:54:11 -0400
Subject: Re: Complex Frog Base Model

Message text written by Origami List
>I did ask similar questions before. I found there are more "pre-frog"
based
models available. You may use pre-frog base as another example.
Cerceda has several published models from frog base in the book,
"Facinating
Origami". It is interesting that they are all birds. Most of them are from
stretched frog base (did I coin this one?). Have a look if complexity is
not
a big issue to you.

JC Nolan has a spider base based on pre-frog base. Some of the designs in
his book are based on spider base. I believe Patricia Crawfords' scorpian
could be started from pre-frog base. I would love to know if you found any
other good examples.<

        I too found more "pre-frog" base or "modified frog" base models,
and ultimately, I think I'm going to have to use one of them.  I'll
probably end up going with either Issei Yoshino's "Tiger" or Marc
Kirschenbaum's "American Lobster."  But thanks for the suggestions!

 _,_
 ____/_\,) .. _
--____-===( _\/ \\/ \-----_---__
 /\ ' ^__/>/\____\--------
__________/__\_ ____________________________.//__.//_________

 Jerry D. Harris
 Fossil Preparation Lab
 New Mexico Museum of Natural History
 1801 Mountain Rd NW
 Albuquerque NM 87104-1375
 Phone: (505) 899-2809
 Fax: (505) 841-2866
 102354.2222@compuserve.com





From: "Wu, Sonia" <swu@BANSHEE.SAR.USF.EDU>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 17:06:14 -0400
Subject: Keeping Fish Upright

For my brother's wedding I'm making little goldfish (from Kasahara's
Creative Origami) and dispalying them in little goldfish bowls.  The
bowls are lined with blue marbles and filled with irridescent/"clear"
plastic or mylar strands.  The strands are a little bit like Easter
basket "grass" packing material.

Am having trouble getting the fish to remain upright in the plastic
strands.  Any suggestions?

Sonia Wu





From: Susan Johnston <supersuzy2000@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:41:41 +0100 (
Subject: Re: Chatrooms

Hi!

Thanks for the information but I've already had the invitation from someone
else about the paperwonders club - i think that is the one you mean.  If it
isn't then it doesn't matter, i've joined 2 yahoo clubs each with a
chatroom!

Thanks anyway

Susan Johnston

>From: madawson <madawson@SPRYNET.COM>
>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>Subject: Re: Chatrooms
>Date: Sun, 13 Jun 1999 19:26:03 -0700
>
>Susan, there is an origami chat room that meets on Tuesday night starting
>at
>9:00 EST (East coast USA).  Send me your e-mail address and I will find out
>how you can join in on it.  I received an invitation & I have to go back &
>check my e-mails to see where it came from.
>
>MaryAnn Scheblein-Dawson
>madawson@sprynet.com
>
>"Fold something.  You'll feel better."
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Susan Johnston <supersuzy2000@HOTMAIL.COM>
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Date: Friday, June 11, 1999 11:29 AM
>Subject: Chatrooms
>
>
> >Hi its me again asking about something else this time!
> >
> >Does anyone know of any origami 'chatrooms' on the internet.  I've seen
> >charooms on Yahoo Chat which are for other hobbies and there's one for
> >Japanese Anime but there's not one for origami. :-(
> >
> >If you do know of any, please let me know. Thanks in advance.
> >
> >Susan Johnston ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________________
> >Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: CASALONGA Jean-Jerome <jj-casalonga@MAGIC.FR>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 21:45:55 +0200
Subject: Re: Polite resquest on "Whoa on Yoshizawa -bashing"

        You cowards !

    Aren't you ashamed to attack a poor old man in such a way ?  He is not
even on the list !

And he can't read english.  And he's so old !   He can't almost fold a
simple flapping bird now, as his hands are shaking.  And his mind is not so
well either.  Can you believe he want to give his origami to the UNICEF.
Just try picture this : One guy at the UNICEF receives 3.000 carefully
wrapped little paper things (well, that's how HE will see the origami).  So,
he'll ask his boss.  Who will answer : "Oh yes, Oribami, that's
paperfolding.  That's for kids.  Throw them away, there's no room for this
shit".

    So, the result is that Yoshizawa's model will end up in a UNICEF garbage
can.

         Well, back to the Yoshizawa bashing.

    You cowards should attack someone younger...    someone stronger ...
someone faster ...  someone clever ...    someone better ...

        Yes, go on !  start the CASALONGA BASHING ! ! ! ! !   But beware,
next time I meet you on a convention, I'll show you that I can use my
muscles (and sometime my brain)

                    I'll kick your butt !  I'm not afraid !

    Ah  ah ! you are scared !    It's easy to write nasty things on a senile
man (No, Xuxa, I'm not talking about your brother.  Yes, Xuxa, I love you.
Yes, please Xuxa, I'm writing a letter to the Origami List.  Yes, Xuxa, the
people who talk bad about Hector.   Xuxa, PLEASE SHUT UP !)

            I'm ready to fight !

        Yours,

                        JJ CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASALONGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA





From: Hatori Koshiro <hatori@JADE.DTI.NE.JP>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 22:23:59 +0900
Subject: Re: Realistic flying origami helicopter?

> >One of these was the helicopter-like thingy, which was a bamboo rotor, maybe
> >10cm across, with a thin bamboo rod attached to it at a right angle:
> > ______ ______
> >/______/_____/    <- rotor
> >       |
> >       |
> >       |
> >       |          <- rod
> >       |
> >       |
>
> I don' know the name for it but I have one at home :-)  Yea!

It is called Take-tombo in Japanese, which is translated to
Bamboo Dragonfly, not Helicopter.
I think it is older than a helicopter.

 _ _ _ _ _
|         |  Hatori Koshiro (Koshiro is my first name.)
|_._._._._|          hatori@jade.dti.ne.jp
|         |      http://www.jade.dti.ne.jp/~hatori/
|_ _ _ _ _|_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 If they keep on risking failure, they're still artists. (S.Jobs)





From: Paul & Jan Fodor <origami@ALOHA.NET>
Date: Wed, 09 Jun 1999 17:41:00 -1000
Subject: Re: Polite resquest on "Whoa on Yoshizawa -bashing"

>             I'm ready to fight !
>
>         Yours,
>
>                         JJ CAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAASALONGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Oops, sorry I thought that was your fight that I rather enjoyed.  I
sensed no malice in your bashing.  Rather felt like those blow-up bats
bouncing about.  I think maybe even AY might chuckle as he willed his
paper stuff to NOA.  Aloha, Jan





From: Jane Rosemarin <jfrmpls@SPACESTAR.NET>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 16:28:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Translation request

Kimberly Shuck (with the help of an efficient server, a similar time
zone?) was kind enough to respond immediately to my request for a
translation of the name of the Kawasaki Rose with Calyx, so I no longer
need to trouble anyone else on the list.

Thanks to Kimberly (and to everyone else for reading the message).

-Jane





From: Darren Abbey <darren_a@MAIL.UTEXAS.EDU>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:16:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Maekawa's Devil

I too have attempted Maekawa's devil from the crease pattern on the
Tanteidan web site.   Collapsing the model was a horrendous task without
any pointers.   I was only able to collapse the fold by ignoring a
couple of creases
        My result doesn't look like Maekawa's devil, but I like it alright.

   http://ccwf.cc.utexas.edu/~psycho/devil.jpg

        Looking at the completed model image on the Tanteidan site, I now
realize that I had most of the basics right.   The details on mine are
different, but I can see how most would map over to the original.
        I think I'm going to try again as soon as I finish this message.

- Darren

Paul Chabot wrote:
>
> Allo,
>
>         Has anyone succesfully managed to collapse that hideously difficult
> crease pattern that was available from the Tanteidan web site. I've just
> started it and I have managed to finish the top section for the most part.
> Does anyone know how to get to the finished devil from the base... and more
> importantly just what is the base supposed to look like?
>
> Paul Chabot





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:23:19 -0700
Subject: Re: Polite resquest on "Whoa on Yoshizawa -bashing"

At 21:56 99/06/14 -0400, Robert Allan Schwartz wrote:
>Wouldn't it be better if they were donated to Origami-USA, or some other
>origami association?

Perhaps. But if that's what he wants to do, who's going to stop him?
----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Antonio Rodriguez <aajrdguez@SPRYNET.COM>
Date: Mon, 14 Jun 1999 19:54:53 -0400
Subject: Re: paper matters (was RE: More about Butterfly competition! )

Newbie alert!! I'm new to the list, so please bear with me, and don't kick
me too hard if I commit any faux pas.

>Dino Andreozzi wrote:
>>Allen Perry wrote to me:
>>>Paper doesn't require skill less you hand-make the paper
>>I don't agree with that. I have tried to fold my frog with different
>>kind of papers and there is a lot of them that don't give the model
>>the right finish. I saw an origami exhibition here in Stockholm
>>for a couple of years ago, great models , many of the high complex,
>>folded very well but with the wrong paper, they looked terrible.
>>Sometime we forget that what we do is folding PAPER. The paper
>>should be one of the most important thing to choose if you are
>>going to show the model in an exhibition. We should have more
>>respect for the material we use.
>
>I agree with Dino. As in any "art" or "craft" or "profession", knowing
>as much as possible about the material we use is vital, and sometimes an
>art in itself. Finding the right paper for the right model can be very
>difficult. Hey, and finding the right model for that wonderful handmade
>linen-paper-with-marble-dust can be even more difficult!
>
>I started folding Origami around September 1996. I used cheap white
>typing paper, magazines, and gift wrapping paper. Had to cut everything
>to size, and sometimes the patterns and colours were more than
>questionable (a tiger with a red rose pattern, whoah!).

To tell the truth, I always liked finding a piece of paper, of any kind
(flyers, pamphlets, even Hershey's Miniatures wrappers), and folding the
classic vanilla crane. It makes people curious, and they're always well
received as gifts. And the Hersheys wrappers even make for interesting color
schemes, especially for different holidays, when they vary their colors in
tne for the holiday in question.

>And then, as a Christmas gift, my wife gave me a pack of REAL origami
>paper. I almost fainted. No more cutting, one side white and one side
>coloured, the paper was super thin, it didn't rip, it didn't lose its
>shape, it held a crease. I'd never seen anything so perfect as these one
>hundred sheets of square origami paper, 15x15cm.

>That day, I really realized how important the paper is. No matter how
>nice, technically challenging, or smartly designed a model may be, if
>you don't have the right paper for it, it's just a waste of time.

Origami paper is very good for folding, but improvisational origami, using
whatever you have at hand, is very satisfying as well.

I find satisfaction isn't in the paper, it's in the looks you get from the
person you give it to. It's a gift that I've found is more appreciated
because it was made by your hands in front of them, than one bought at a
store.

I remember once making a crane from a small square I was able to salvage
from a straw wrapper. It was without doubt the smallest I ever made, and the
girl I gave it to was completely marveled by it. And some days later, became
my girlfriend, but that's another story. . .

My personal opinion is: The paper discussion is all good, but the emotion
enclosed in the origami gives it its value.

Antonio Rodriguez
