




From: Robert Lang <robjlang@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:03:07 -0800 (
Subject: The REAL Robert Lang

<sigh>

It's happened to me again.  I've been mistaken for Robert Lang "the
author"  I am doomed to forever live in his shadow.  His game of petty
"one-upmanship" has been going on for years.  Everything I invent, he
steals and re-invents.  Every time i plan a major release, the "real"
Lang jumps ahead of the circuit.  Anyone remember my "black forest
wristwatch"?  I didn't think so.

This doesn't end with origami.  I'm also an engineer.  My research
funding on "high powered military flashlights" was cut when you-know-who
whispered in somebody's ear about "laserbeams".

And the worst part--- knowing that I have a rare depilatory condition
that doesn't allow more than a goatee to sprout on my face, the "real"
Mr. Lang sports a full-beard, in utter defiance of my tragic condition.

Thank you for your time, gentle people..

"Bobby" Lang

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 07:31:53 +0000
Subject: Re: Flat (Fat?) Fish

One of his best unknown works is an ant, complete with legs, antennae
etc. It's absolutely Brilliant.

all the best,

Nick Robinson





From: Boseditor@AOL.COM
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 08:01:56 -0500 (
Subject: Kalmon rides again

Kalmon writes:

<<ART IS A WORD>>

Thanks Kalmon - problem solved.

And ....

since origami is also a word

then origami is clearly the same as art!

Dave Mitchell

(Now - will Kalmon turn out to be just another alias, I wonder?)





From: Boseditor@AOL.COM
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:27:15 -0500 (
Subject: origami defined

Really enjoying this one - it's nearly as much fun as ..... origami, whatever
that is.....

Joseph Wu writes:

<<Don't you think this is by design? ;)>>

Is this another conspiracy theory?

<<Bingo. This is what my original rough definition aspired to be. I'd only
make two changes, to appease the ART vs. CRAFT vs. WHATEVER crowd and the
PAPER vs. OTHER STUFF crowd:

  Origami is a form of visual / sculptural representation that is defined
  primarily by the folding of the medium (usually paper).>>

I largely agree with the spirit of this definition but I have learned that the
less words you use in a definition the better - and the words you do use
should be simple to define in their turn. That's because some clever clogs
always come along and asks - 'But what do you mean by (insert word of choice
here)?

In this case I think the word 'representational' poses the most problems. So
non-representational folds aren't origami. huh?

Dave Mitchell

PS - I heard another definition of Art - Anything that's not worth the money
you paid for it.





From: Martin <mrcinc@SILCOM.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:39:31 -0800
Subject: Re: Xuxa Rojas- my apologies

Carlos Alberto Furuti wrote about XR's broken English -- that was not
broken English -- it was folded English. Broken English would have had a
number of misspellings --- and inverted syntax. Careful analysis of XR's
posts reveal her spelling was impeccable. Fractured English on the other
hand has sunk syntax and poor spelling. These posts had neither.

MRC





From: Martin <mrcinc@SILCOM.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:47:16 -0800
Subject: <listserv@nstn.ns.ca>???

My brother is trying to join this list -- he doesn't fold -- but he is
interested in art and humor.
He sent me the following message after visiting Joseph Wu's site -- can
anyone help him??

I followed directions to sign up and sent an e-mail to this address.  It

keeps bouncing back.  Can you figure out why?
<listserv@nstn.ns.ca>

--
Martin R. Carbone
1227 De La Vina St.
Santa Barbara, CA 93101
Tel: 805-965-5574 Fax: 805-965-2414

WEBSITES: http://www.papershops.com <<or>>
http://www.modelshops.com <<or>> http://www.silcom.com/~mrcinc





From: Edith Kort <ekort@MCLS.ROCHESTER.LIB.NY.US>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 09:56:57 -0500
Subject: Owl & Owlet by Neale

There is a simple owl and owlet in

Origami, Plain and Simple  models by Neale, text by Thomas Hull
    St. Martin's Griffin, 1994

I got my copy at Barnes & Noble

--
  Edith M. Kort
  Rochester Origami Club
  Rochester  NY





From: Hatori Koshiro <hatori@JADE.DTI.NE.JP>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:07:54 +0900
Subject: Re: Owl model, but a little more complex

> > KOMATSU's Horned Owl is on Tanteidan Newsletter issue 49.
>
> Also identifying that issue are the numerals:  98  4  15
> which I presume means the April 15th, 1998 issue?  It also has
> the numerals 9 1 which I'm guessing mean volume 9, number 1?

Exactly.

> I have heard that older years of the Tanteidan Newsletter are no longer
> available, but I suspect that last year's issues are still available.  As
has
> been mentioned in the past, ordering these from Japan can be annoying due
to
> the currency conversion fees and time delays involved.  Check the archives
for
> past messages, though sadly there seems to be no simple solution.

It's the current volume indeed.
Now Origami Tanteidan consigns them to Gallery Origami House, who have
a US-dollar bank account.
So it may be a little easier to order.

 _ _ _ _ _
|         |  Hatori Koshiro (Koshiro is my first name.)
|_._._._._|          hatori@jade.dti.ne.jp
|         |      http://www.jade.dti.ne.jp/~hatori/
|_ _ _ _ _|_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 If they keep on risking failure, they're still artists. (S.Jobs)





From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@AHAND.UNICAMP.BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:47:24 -0200
Subject: Re: Xuxa Rojas- my apologies

Gee, I think not even the late Unafolder self in his/her glory days has
caused such a stir! I personally had a lot of fun. Anyway,
- no (real) feelings were (fatally) hurt
- we got to know one another a little better
- newbies learned not to take everything (too) seriously
- freedom of expression (or at least choice of dictionary) has
  apparently prevailed

But I'm also a bit disappointed. Several friends of mine got
interested in X.R.'s original posts. We were wondering whether
an automated translator could produce such broken English. Now
I'll have to tell them it was all a fake. No fun...

        Sincerely,
                Carlos
        furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti

P.S. I guess it's a "convention legend" by now, but could someone
tell in detail the story of the fat David eating bad shrimp?





From: hecht <hecht@MCI2000.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 10:48:44 -0800
Subject: Re: Biplane 2 (was Web page update)

Given the recent atmosphere on this list, I may be committing a breach of
decorum: a question and comments about an actual model.  I must first
compliment Marc Kirschenbaum on his diagrams and models, which always
provide me with hours of enjoyment.  For me, each is a puzzle that succumbs
only after multiple attempts, but they "prove their worth by hitting back."

In reference to "Biplane 2", just published on-line (numbers are steps):

133: folding over the top of the cowl seems impossible due to resistance
from perpendicular paper
143: there isn't a pocket on the upper wing to tuck the rabbit-ear into; the
final illustration shows blunted tips on the upper wings; are there missing
steps that describe how to blunt these points while creating pockets for the
strut-tips?

Comments:

34: could be clearer; perspective diagram suggests that the valley folds are
diagonal, but they are straight, connecting their endpoints; this is only
clear at illustration 37
47: no reference points, although 48 suggests lower edge is horizontal
49: open/closed-ness of sink unclear
67: not indicated, but horizontal crease seems to pass through intersection
of 2 creases
103: right hidden point is more restricted by trapping paper than left
104: doesn't want to flatten.  easier to work on the propeller front-on

--steve hecht

-----Original Message-----
From: Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@PIPELINE.COM>
To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Sunday, January 10, 1999 9:43 PM
Subject: Webpage update

>Hi all,
>
>In an attempt to beat out Perry Bailey for the most frequent webpage
>updates, yes, there is another addition to my page. This is another classic
>puzzle where you can make the pieces with paper. The pieces are easy to
>fold, but solving the puzzle could give you some trouble. As always I am
>willing tpo e-mail the solution to the easily stumped. Good luck!
>
>Marc
>
>http://marckrsh.home.pipeline.com





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:23:25 -0800
Subject: Alice's Adventures in Folded-Land (was Re: Flat (Fat?) Fish)

At 06:19 99/01/22 -0800, you wrote:
>I believe the original quote was
>   "'Twas Brillig, and the slithy toves"
>but I haven't been able to find my book yet in order to verify it...
>(from "Alice in Wonderland")

  'Twas brillig, and the slithy toves
   Did gyre and gimbel in the wabe.
   All mimsey were the borogroves,
   And the mome raths outgrabe.

As usual, I can only remember the first verse of the poem. 8) I do like the
bit where the father rejoices in the death of the Jabberwock, though:

  Thou hast slain the Jabberwock...
  Oh frabjous day! Calloo, callay!

>...and speaking of "Alice in Wonderland", could she have used origami as
>a self-defense technique against the deck of cards? If so, what would it
>have been called? Kami Karate (or Kami-te)? Tae Kami Do? Kami Fu? Of
>course, with some of the posts lately, I'm not sure that we should be
>discussing origami as a martial art...

No, no, no. It would have to be Michael LaFosse's "Origami-Do"! 8)

Incidentally, Lewis Carroll did fold paper, and one of the train passengers
in "Through the Looking Glass" is a man dressed in paper clothing (including
a folded hat).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 11:25:24 -0800
Subject: Re: <listserv@nstn.ns.ca>???

At 12:55 99/01/22 -0500, D'gou wrote:
>Looks like an old address, the proper address is:
>        listserv@mitvma.mit.edu
>
>Then in the body of the message:
>        Subscribe ORIGAMI FirstName LastName
>
>Good luck!
>
>-D'gou
>P.S. You'll probably get a note from Joseph too. ;-)

That's exactly right. And a note from me is not required since Bill has
already successfully subscribed to the list. Welcome, Bill!

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@AHAND.UNICAMP.BR>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:16:59 -0200
Subject: Re: Kalmon rides again

>>From: Boseditor@AOL.COM

>><<ART IS A WORD>>
>>since origami is also a word
>>then origami is clearly the same as art!
>>Dave Mitchell

Once I read (honest!) in a textbook on logic:
- God is love
- Love is blind
- therefore Stevie Wonder is God

Sorry, couldn't resist

        Sincerely,
                Carlos
        furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 12:55:41 -0500
Subject: Re: <listserv@nstn.ns.ca>???

Martin wrote:

> I followed directions to sign up and sent an e-mail to this address.  It
>
> keeps bouncing back.  Can you figure out why?
> <listserv@nstn.ns.ca>

Looks like an old address, the proper address is:
        listserv@mitvma.mit.edu

Then in the body of the message:
        Subscribe ORIGAMI FirstName LastName

Good luck!

-D'gou
P.S. You'll probably get a note from Joseph too. ;-)





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:16:51 -0500
Subject: Another Owl...

In the recent querying about Owl models, I completely forgot that Anita
Barbour's Owl is on her web page: http://www.ulster.net/~spider/origami.htm

There are few judgement folds involved, and the shaping of the wings can be
confusing to see from the diagrams alone.  You can see a medium resolution
photo of the model at:  http://www.pgh.net/~dwp/origami/aviary/Gallery.html

(The model got some crinkles in it during shipping and subsequent handling
during display.)

-D'gou





From: Tony Gower-Mead <A1gm@AOL.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:37:57 -0500 (
Subject: Re: origami defined

A couple of things which crossed my mind on this....
this is just a suggestion, but if we were to define Origami as "artistic
folding", then the discussions could be split into two distinct subject-
groups:
"What is Art ?"
and "What  is folding ?"

If this is an acceptable idea, then let us tackle the simpler of the two first
;
A dictionary defines fold as: a doubling of anything upon itself: a
crease:....
therefore, as has been mentioned, many materials can be folded, others merely
bend or stretch.

As to the second, this is a problem which has baffled many people ! My own
personal definition ( I'm not after approval - it's just always worked for me
!) is:
" Any act of deliberate creation about which other people will readily argue "

Where this may well be flippant and over-simplified, it has enabled me accept
the artistic merit of a lot of things that I don't actually like !

as an end note, the fly in the ointment , if you like, where most people (and
certainly dictionaries) agree that the origin of Origami is Japan, there is
thje problem of the entry in the Kanomado, 1850, of a dragonly fold, using a
hexagonal piece of paper and six devastating cuts !
( the model is featured in Harbin's Paper Magic and the instructions can be
found in Secrets of Origami)
Whether we consider this to be Origami or not, I have to admit that although I
have always been a member of the "any cut's a sin" brigade, it was a challenge
indeed and I was VERY proud when I finally got it right !

Well, that's enough for now - hit me back, that's what discussion's about !
{:^)

- Tony -
(I fold under pressure)





From: Marcus Hanson <hecatomb@CARROLLSWEB.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:49:20 -0600
Subject: this and that

Origami as art.
if one designs and creates thier own models I would call it an art.
If one only folds the diagrams of others then it might have to be
downgraded to a craft.

The sammuri did origami
they also considered flower arranging and poetry martial arts
under that definition it might be considered a martial art.

robert lang should use a pen name
how about john montroll

Soren





From: Chrome Digital <chromedigi@EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:23:26 -0500
Subject: Re: origami defined

From: Tony Gower-Mead <A1gm@AOL.COM>

>this is just a suggestion, but if we were to define Origami as "artistic
>folding", then the discussions could be split into two distinct subject-
>groups:
>"What is Art ?"
>and "What  is folding ?"

>As to the second, this is a problem which has baffled many people ! My own
>personal definition ( I'm not after approval - it's just always worked for
me
>!) is:

>" Any act of deliberate creation about which other people will readily
argue "

You mean like computer operating systems, programming languages, text
editors, and so on?  :)

-- Jim Puccio





From: Jean-Jerome CASALONGA <jj-casalonga@MAGIC.FR>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 15:31:26 +0100
Subject: Re: Flat (Fat?) Fish

>Wayne "Flu" Fluharty
>wflu@hotmail.com

OK, man, prove me you're the REAL Wayne Fluharty, and not the UnaFolder
using a fake Hotmail account !

    JJ Caaaaaaaaaaasalongaaaaaaaaaaaa





From: Julie Rhodes <kettir@GEOCITIES.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:20:23 +0000 (
Subject: Who's the Best at reverse engineering?

Years and years ago I purchased two origami dragons from a young lady at a
convention in Columbus, Ohio.  These dragons are gorgeous.  Who would be
the best to reverse engineer these dragons and produce useable diagrams?  I
have never seen dragons like these on any site or in any book, although of
course I haven't seen every site or book.  They are just the best.  Any
recommendations would be appreciated.  It must be someone trustworthy...I'd
like to have the dragon I loan that person back.
----------------------------------------------------------------<*>---
kettir at           /\ /\   | "History shows again and again
geocities dot com  = o_o =  |  How Nature points up the folly of men."





From: Marc Kirschenbaum <contract@PIPELINE.COM>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 03:34:36 -0500
Subject: Re: Who's the Best at reverse engineering?

At 07:20 PM 1/22/99 +0000, Julie Rhodes <kettir@GEOCITIES.COM>  wrote:
>Years and years ago I purchased two origami dragons from a young lady at a
>convention in Columbus, Ohio.  These dragons are gorgeous.  Who would be
>the best to reverse engineer these dragons and produce useable diagrams?  I
>have never seen dragons like these on any site or in any book, although of
>course I haven't seen every site or book.  They are just the best.  Any
>recommendations would be appreciated.  It must be someone trustworthy...I'd
>like to have the dragon I loan that person back.

I am sure a few of us could reverse engineer a model (myself included), but
diagramming is a lot of work. If it is possible to post a photo of the
model in question, there is a good chance one of us would know the source.

Marc





From: Paul & Jan Fodor <origami@ALOHA.NET>
Date: Tue, 19 Jan 1999 19:53:05 -1000
Subject: Re: this and that & Wanted: dragon photo

Doug Philips wrote:
>
> Hatori Koshiro indited:
>
> +Marcus Hanson said,
> +> Origami as art.
> +> if one designs and creates thier own models I would call it an art.
> +> If one only folds the diagrams of others then it might have to be
> +> downgraded to a craft.
> +
> +I don't agree that.
> +Folding along diagrams can be an art as playing music along a score
> +can be.
>
> I quite agree with Hatori Koshiro.  The music analogy has some problems
> because origami is both a performance art (the folding process itself) and a
> representational art (the model you have folded).  Music has no existance past
> the end of the performance itself.  But, I think the analogy is still more
> useful than not.
>
> -D'gou

I also agree with Hatori.  Choice of paper, color, details and personal
touch often times make a model more than just a replica of the creator's
model.  Aloha, Jan

I also have a request of dragon makers.  I am planning a year 2000
business card and would like an origami dragon as part of my design.
Does anyone have a good photo especially of the upper portion of an
origami dragon that I may use.  I want the dragon to appear to puff out
an outline of the "2000" so I can fill in the center of the card with my
necessary information.  I'm willing to negotiate trades and/or cash.  I
know some of you are professionals and I don't want to insult anyone
with my meager offerings but I can't afford big, big bucks. You can
contact me at my email.  Thanks, Jan
--
<http://www.gotomymall.com/hawaii/origami/>
Origami by Jan website...the Fodor folder





From: John Sutter <sutterj@EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 13:59:43 -0800
Subject: help with thousand cranes hanging

Greetings to my friends on the list:

I've seen others post requests for cranes on the list before, so I hope some
of the people I know on it will respond to my request.  I would appreciate
some help from some of you out there to make about five classic cranes and
send them to me so I can gather the thousand cranes I need to help me make a
special hanging for my husband who is recovering from an operation.  He has
a life threatening illness.  I have made 100 so far, and my origami club
will do some too.  Even though my posts have John Sutter as the sender they
are from me, Ria.
And no, this is not a hoax like the sister of Hector Rojas posts.  I truly
would appreciate any cranes you would send to me
                     Ria Sutter
                     51 Brimwood Dr.
                     Vernon, CT 06066

The cranes are for John Sutter!   PS  It was so funny to see his name in the
top 10 of people who post to the list since he doesn't even use the email
very much:)





From: John Sutter <sutterj@EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:04:28 -0800
Subject: Hector hoax

GOOD ONE!  The little hoax sure stirred up the list :)  That should please
all the unleashed folks, especially!

Ria  ^   ^





From: Perry Bailey <pbailey@OPENCOMINC.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 14:54:17 -0600
Subject: Re: Flat (Fat?) Fish

Wayne Fluharty wrote:

> >"'Twas Brilly, and the slithy toves..."
>
> I believe the original quote was
>    "'Twas Brillig, and the slithy toves"
> but I haven't been able to find my book yet in order to verify it...
> (from "Alice in Wonderland")

Yes the quote is correct, and so is this one.

"Never under estimate the destructive power of Origami!"
(Earthworm Jim)

Perry

--
pbailey@opencominc.com
http://www.afgsoft.com/perry/  <---- Origami Web Page with Diagrams!
ICQ 23622644





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 16:40:27 -0500
Subject: Math of Origami (update?)...

A long time ago (lifetimes measured by internet time), the following message
was posted to this list.  Mr. Geretschlager, do you still read this list?  Are
you at liberty to provide an update on this project?  If Mr. Geretschlager
isn't on this list anymore, does anyone know "what's up" with this project?
The curious minded, are, well, curious! ;-)

       Date: Thu, 18 Dec 1997 02:51:14 -0400 (AST)
       From: Geretschlaeger Robert <geretsch@borg-6.borg-graz.ac.at>
       Subject: Re: 2nd Proceedings of Origami Science.

Hello, all!

My name is Robert Geretschlager, I am stationed in Graz Austria, and most
of you on the list will not know me, although I have been lurking for quite
a while now.

I am breaking my previous silence to announce that I am working on just
such a book as David Lister was talking about. So far, I have about 75
pages of LaTex and drawings, most of it based on my articles already
published in mathematical journals (Mathematics Magazine and Crux
Mathematicorum), that some of you will be familiar with.

I am very aware of the risk I am taking with such a public announcement,
since I expect to be working on the thing for at least another year before
it is ready for publication (and, no, I dont have a publisher lined up
yet, either), but if people are expecting me to finish this, I hope it will
make me work faster.

I will be at the special session of the joint AMS-MAA meetings in Baltimore
in January, where I will be presenting some new things, including complete
methods of folding the regular 13-gon and 19-gon (both mathematically
precise), and of solving the general quartic equation in origami.

I hope this little message will be of some interest to some of you,

seasons greetings

Robert Geretschlager





From: Perry Bailey <pbailey@OPENCOMINC.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:32:15 -0600
Subject: links

Hi for those of you who wondered why there wasn't a link to your
page on my page, the answer is, I accidentaly wiped out the
button to load them.  After an hour and a half of work I finaly
got the main scroll down menu to work with the links menu.  I
would have done it differently if knew how, but this seems to
work.  Again I apologize, it's just that I don't ever look at the
links on my page so I never noticed they were missing till I
tried to up date them today!

Thanks, and sorry about that

Perry

--
pbailey@opencominc.com
http://www.afgsoft.com/perry/  <---- Origami Web Page with
Diagrams!
ICQ 23622644





From: Cindy <cw@JPS.NET>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 17:45:18 -0800
Subject: Valerie Vann's magic rose cube

I just read about this amazing creation on the archives of the origami
listserve.  Is there anyone in the Davis, CA area who knows how to fold it
and is willing to show me?

Cindy





From: "Askinazi, Brett" <brett@HAGERHINGE.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:14:55 -0600
Subject: Re: Another Owl...

Thanks Doug,

This is a nice page with a few cool diagrams on it.  Simple yet very
distinct.

B R E T T

-----Original Message-----
From:   Doug Philips [mailto:dwp@TRANSARC.COM]
Sent:   Friday, January 22, 1999 12:17 PM
To:     ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject:        Another Owl...

In the recent querying about Owl models, I completely forgot that Anita
Barbour's Owl is on her web page: http://www.ulster.net/~spider/origami.htm





From: John Sutter <sutterj@EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 18:35:23 -0800
Subject: Re: help with thousand cranes hanging

>X-Warning: mitvma.mit.edu: Host mcls.rochester.lib.ny.us claimed to be mcls
>References: <199901222159.NAA06739@hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net>
>Date:         Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:33:25 -0500
>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Sender: Origami Mailing List <Origami@MIT.Edu>
>From: Edith Kort <ekort@MCLS.ROCHESTER.LIB.NY.US>
>Organization: MCLS Trustee
>Subject:      Re: help with thousand cranes hanging
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>
>Ria,
>
>Any request about size, color and type of paper?
>
>--
>  E. M. Kort  Rochester, NY
>
>
Thanks for asking Edith:

Yes, I forgot to add 4"-6"  paper, any color except brown, black or gray,
kami.  Foils, whateverelse, are good.

Thanks in advance to anybody who would contribute cranes to cheer John up.

Ria





From: Edith Kort <ekort@MCLS.ROCHESTER.LIB.NY.US>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 19:33:25 -0500
Subject: Re: help with thousand cranes hanging

Ria,

Any request about size, color and type of paper?

--
  E. M. Kort  Rochester, NY





From: Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@PIPELINE.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:25:00 -0500
Subject: Re: Biplane 2 (was Web page update)

At 10:48 AM 1/22/99 -0800, hecht <hecht@MCI2000.COM>  wrote:

>In reference to "Biplane 2", just published on-line (numbers are steps):
>
>133: folding over the top of the cowl seems impossible due to resistance
>from perpendicular paper

Hey, I am just glad it was possible to get up to step 133! It is a little
thick up there, but some of the folds form ar 45 deg., allowing a box-like
shape to form.

>143: there isn't a pocket on the upper wing to tuck the rabbit-ear into; the
>final illustration shows blunted tips on the upper wings; are there missing
>steps that describe how to blunt these points while creating pockets for the
>strut-tips?

I use to blunt the tips with simple mountain folds, but I now prefer the
sharper tips with the slightly wider wingspan. This has nothing to do with
the pocket on the upper wings. The pockets are formed with the closed sink
in step 64.
>
>Comments:
>
>34: could be clearer; perspective diagram suggests that the valley folds are
>diagonal, but they are straight, connecting their endpoints; this is only
>clear at illustration 37

I feel bad about that diagram. Would you believe it took a few hours to
draw that one? There were so many comprimises to make, so I tried to pick
the best angle to show the most information. Somehow most people seem to
get it after a little while, so perhaps it is not as bad as I thought.

>47: no reference points, although 48 suggests lower edge is horizontal

Yup, it is supposed to be horizontal.

>49: open/closed-ness of sink unclear

I stole the phrase "sink triangularly" from John Montroll. It is basically
an open sink with three sides (as oppesed to sinking the tip of a
waterbomb, which would have four sides to sink through).

>67: not indicated, but horizontal crease seems to pass through intersection
>of 2 creases

It might, but I am not mathematically savvy enough to prove it one way or
another. That part is only aesthetically critical, as it determines the
width of the fuselage.

>103: right hidden point is more restricted by trapping paper than left

There is more going on at the right, and you have less access to that point.

>104: doesn't want to flatten.  easier to work on the propeller front-on

That is better for the model anyway. The locks from step 103 are in part to
blame.

I am glad you like the model. It is nice for a change to discuss steps in
the three digit range.

>>In an attempt to beat out Perry Bailey for the most frequent webpage
>>updates, yes, there is another addition to my page. This is another classic
>>puzzle where you can make the pieces with paper. The pieces are easy to
>>fold, but solving the puzzle could give you some trouble. As always I am
>>willing tpo e-mail the solution to the easily stumped. Good luck!

Oops, I forgot to mention in the original message that the new puzzle is
the "Square Puzzle" in the simple section on my page. Has anyone solved
these puzzles yet? I have not heard anything one way or the other, except
from people I had personally given the puzzles to. In order of solving
difficulty, The "M" is easiest, then the Square, and the "K" is the
hardest. As for myself, I solved both the "square" and the "k" in about
seven minutes each, but I was never able to solve the letter "M"! Really,
the "m" I was shown to make looked different from the actual solution, but
I will stop making excuses.

Marc

http://marckrsh.home.pipeline.com





From: Penny Groom <penny@SECTOR.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:37:30 +0000
Subject: Re: Kalmon rides again

>then origami is clearly the same as art!
>
>Dave Mitchell
>
>(Now - will Kalmon turn out to be just another alias, I wonder?)

No he's real he's got his picture on the BOS homepage so he must be.

Penny Groom
Membership Secretary, British Origami Society
BOS Homepage
http://nw.demon.co.uk/rpmrecords/bos/index.html





From: Penny Groom <penny@SECTOR.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:38:36 +0000
Subject: Re: origami defined

In article <81daa94b.36a7218c@aol.com>, Boseditor@AOL.COM writes
>Isn't it great how the list has woken up again suddenly?
>
Yes, it's because they've all realised it's time to renew their BOS
subscription and they want to get their February magazine on time and
not a few weeks late!

Penny (subtle is my middle name)Groom
Penny Groom
Membership Secretary, British Origami Society
BOS Homepage
http://nw.demon.co.uk/rpmrecords/bos/index.html





From: Carole Young <youngcj@IX.NETCOM.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 21:41:39 -0600
Subject: Re: The REAL Robert Lang

Tragic indeed, and unfair.





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 22:24:16 -0500
Subject: Re: this and that

Hatori Koshiro indited:

+Marcus Hanson said,
+> Origami as art.
+> if one designs and creates thier own models I would call it an art.
+> If one only folds the diagrams of others then it might have to be
+> downgraded to a craft.
+
+I don't agree that.
+Folding along diagrams can be an art as playing music along a score
+can be.

I quite agree with Hatori Koshiro.  The music analogy has some problems
because origami is both a performance art (the folding process itself) and a
representational art (the model you have folded).  Music has no existance past
the end of the performance itself.  But, I think the analogy is still more
useful than not.

-D'gou





From: =?iso-8859-1?B?VEhPUktJTEQgU9hOREVSR8VSRA==?= <thokiyenn@GET2NET.DK>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 23:18:28 +0100
Subject: Re: Kalmon rides again again

Kim Best wrote
I don't remember the name of the video or where to get it.
Thank you Kim Best for giving ME, the great and glorious Kalmon the opening that
permits me to enter the sitting of the court, and give you my findings in an
     unfinished
clouded homepage www.thok.dk
========================================================
CLOUD 3: FILM
He started out doing Documentary films at MINERVA FILM A/S Copenhagen in the
50es. under the pseudonym Thok. Soendergaard. Fed up by doing films about foot
     and
mouth disease in cows he started experimenting with animating paper cut and
     folded
animals, and later got a contract with Halas and Batchelor in London in 1958.
     After 26
animated, 8 minutes long films in the the Snip & Snap Series he went back to
     Denmark
and made the now famous series, Professor Kapok and Mechanic Nick, Balloon
travelling puppets for the Danish Television. 1997 he went to VIDEO BORNHOLM to
experiment with reviving Kapok & Nick. We made a Video: ORIGAMI & KIRIGAMI
from the Archives of Thoki Yenn. If you want it: e mail: videobor@post4.tele.dk.
=============================================================

This Thok. Soendergaard  is only a cover for a sick devious scissor happy
     scizoid person,
calling himself Thoki Yenn, who is obsessed with cutting paper which he folds
     trying
desperately to emulate honest origami animals like good ori-thodox origamists
     do them.
If you want to see, what John Smith writes about this long and boring video,
     look at
http://www.bornholmershoppen.dk/videorig.html
but dont buy it there, scissor out the middleman,  go to the source:
videobor@post4.tele.dk.
It's sort of like a origamic version
of balloon animals. How about thokigami?

If this Thok ever finds out that you said this, he will start using your words
glorifying himself in defense of his nefarious work.

Greetings to you all you lovely people from

Kalmon, the Great and Glorious

I am sorry that I cannot send you my self portrait
because they will not allow attachments to letters to list.

Is this letter long enough?.





From: Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@PIPELINE.COM>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 02:07:06 -0500
Subject: Re: this and that

At 10:24 PM 1/22/99 -0500, : Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>  wrote:

>I quite agree with Hatori Koshiro.  The music analogy has some problems
>because origami is both a performance art (the folding process itself) and a
>representational art (the model you have folded).  Music has no existance past
>the end of the performance itself.

Really? I guess I can not call my CD collection (or record collection for
you older folks) music. They do make for fine frizbees though....

Marc





From: Martin <mrcinc@SILCOM.COM>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 06:29:43 -0800
Subject: Origami is pure art?

Following the recent thread on art and craft  -- and folding
some of the ideas together. Consider these thoughts.
1     All things made by humans have two components  utility and art.
2     Art is what is left if you remove the utility from a thing.
3     The best, most realistic and most defensible value of art is
directly proportional to the price that art will bring in an open
market.
4     Most Origami, with the exception of airplanes and toys,
have little utility -- they are therefor pure art.
5     The designer of a thing is an artist to the extent that he goes
beyond utility.
6     The builder of a thing is an artist to the extent that he goes
beyond the designers basic design
7     The act of designing a thing and the act of  building a thing
both have utility and art related to the emotions of the designer and
builder.
This utility is not incorporated in the finished product  the art is.

Comments are, of course, invited.
--
Martin R. Carbone
1227 De La Vina St.
Santa Barbara, CA 93101
Tel: 805-965-5574 Fax: 805-965-2414

WEBSITES: http://www.papershops.com <<or>>
http://www.modelshops.com <<or>> http://www.silcom.com/~mrcinc





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 09:40:30 -0500
Subject: Re: this and that

Since it has come up on the list and in private email, I'll take just a
second to quickly say (read my tone as a quick aside, not as a curt command):
        None of these discussions are intended, nor should they be
        taken, as authorities attempting to impose their ideas on
        others, and neither are these kinds of discussions intended,
        nor to be taken, as personal attacks on the people
        participating.  These debates are on the merits of their
        content, not the stature and reputation of the participants.
        All list members are welcome to join in.  We are discussing and
        criticizing ideas _not_ making personal attacks on the people
        involved.  If you find these discussions not to your taste,
        please feel free to ignore them!  Better yet, start a
        discussion about something you _are_ interested in!

Marc Kirschenbaum indited:
+At 10:24 PM 1/22/99 -0500, : Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>  wrote:
+>I quite agree with Hatori Koshiro.  The music analogy has some problems
+>because origami is both a performance art (the folding process itself) and a
+>representational art (the model you have folded).  Music has no existance past
+>the end of the performance itself.

+Really? I guess I can not call my CD collection (or record collection for
+you older folks) music. They do make for fine frizbees though....

I would say that CDs are not music "itself" any more than a score is.
CDs and scores are representations of music which can be used
(extremely accurately in the case of a CD) to reproduce the music
itself.  In this case, diagrams and scores are a pretty good analogy.
Both give highly specific directions as to how to reproduce a
particular model or piece of music, and yet both allow for tremendous
variations in how that is done.  [And, amazingly, despite all the
variations that can be, or have been, made we are usually still able to
recognize the underlying work!]

As to calling your CD collection music, that is sloppy when considered
solely from a technical standpoint.  It is effective as well as being
common usage, since there is in practice little confusion between the
representation and the music itself.

As to origami, the most common form used for recording the steps needed
to create models is the diagram form, though there are text only
descriptions for some models, and some software that mimics being
taught by another person.  The diagrams and score analogy works best
for describing the process of realizing the work recorded.  But since
music is ephemeral, the notes, the chords, and the experience are all
temporal, the musical score analogy misses the mark for comparison with
a completed model.

I've been thinking that there is another analogy which could work too,
that between origami diagrams and architectural drawings(+).  Both
specify an ideal which is to be realized in physical form(*), and all
the complications that go with that.  Architectural drawings are often
accompanied by other documents and plans that specify rather "mundane" ;-)
physical details, such as: the materials to be used, the strengths
needed, the tolerances required, etc.  While some origami diagrams do
(and could) specify such things (we'd probably call them paper size,
thickness and/or relative thickness, strength, abrasion resistence,
where to leave "fudge factors") most diagrams leave the discovery of
those properties to the folder.  Even something as simple as specifying
the ratio of sizes between the starting paper and the final model is
only a recent trend.

Hmmm, then again, origami has both wave (performance) and particle (final
model) properties, so maybe physics is a better field in which to find
analogies! ;-)

-D'gou

(+) - I don't recall if this analogy has been made before or not, and
        if so, by whom.
(*) - They don't have to be, of course, but that is the primary reason
        they were invented.





From: Florence Temko <Ftemko@AOL.COM>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 10:13:40 -0500 (
Subject: Re: Origami is pure art?

Re: 3: The price of art on the open market is what someone is willing to pay
and is often influenced by promotion from art galleries, auction houses,
critics and others.





From: Hatori Koshiro <hatori@JADE.DTI.NE.JP>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:24:05 +0900
Subject: Re: ORU #5 questions...

>     The Otter model pictured on page 54 and diagrammed on pages 132, 133.

Enomoto Nobuyoshi. It is titled Sea Otter.

>     The Crane? model pictured on page 91 and diagrammed on pages 122, 123.

Kumasaka Hiroshi. They are Flying Crane and Dancing Crane.

>     The Crab (does it have a more specific name?) model pictured on page
>         21 and diagrammed on pages 149 through 153.  (Do I assume
>         correctly that the five diagrams at the bottom on page 149 are
>         supposed to show how to get one of the claws to be bigger than
>         the other?)

Nishida Shattner (It's his stage name. I don't know his real name.)
The normal one is titled Crab. If you make one of the claws bigger,
it is called ... I don't know what to call in English ... Shio-maneki.

 _ _ _ _ _
|         |  Hatori Koshiro (Koshiro is my first name.)
|_._._._._|          hatori@jade.dti.ne.jp
|         |      http://www.jade.dti.ne.jp/~hatori/
|_ _ _ _ _|_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 If they keep on risking failure, they're still artists. (S.Jobs)





From: Hatori Koshiro <hatori@JADE.DTI.NE.JP>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:24:08 +0900
Subject: Re: this and that

Marcus Hanson said,

> Origami as art.
> if one designs and creates thier own models I would call it an art.
> If one only folds the diagrams of others then it might have to be
> downgraded to a craft.

I don't agree that.
Folding along diagrams can be an art as playing music along a score
can be.

 _ _ _ _ _
|         |  Hatori Koshiro (Koshiro is my first name.)
|_._._._._|          hatori@jade.dti.ne.jp
|         |      http://www.jade.dti.ne.jp/~hatori/
|_ _ _ _ _|_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 If they keep on risking failure, they're still artists. (S.Jobs)





From: Marcus Hanson <hecatomb@CARROLLSWEB.COM>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 11:54:49 -0600
Subject: long winded

I m new to the group and already I am kicking up trouble. Which is just
like me. before I stir up some more trouble I would like to ask is this
discussion group always have this much traffic or did I jump in at a
particularly busy time?
        First I must point out that I said  it might drop it down to a craft
I m not saying either way at this point.. Let s face it that anyone with
any amount of passion toward origami has their own personal philosophy
about it. The fact that it provokes passion and philosophy would
certainly lean it toward the art side.
        lets take a deeper look at the philosophy of origami for a moment. It
can be broken down into a few basic concepts.

1. to cut or not to cut - if we do cut does that include cutting off or
just cutting into.
(personally I do not do any models that involve cutting, I have tried a
few but have not       liked any of them. That may or may not change. If
it is art then can we put such boundaries on it.)

2. are we bound to square sheets of paper ( back to boundaries. There
are certain poetry forms that put restrictions on how they are written.
Are they any less artistic)

3. when does a model become to sculptural to be true origami -(there are
a lot of models out there that are so detailed and complex that the
simplicity of origami is lost, and this so-called wet folding that isn t
really folding which is sculpture in a sense.)  (Personally I do have a
problem with this. origami should be like a cubist painting {I have
often wondered if the cubists were not inspired by origami})

4. is modular ok -  if so is their a limit? ( this overlaps with the
sculptural question. should their be a limit to this particular  art
form . if so, were do we draw the line?)

5. Motivation - why do we do origami?  (now we could ask that question
and get many many answers. certainly at different points in history
those answers would change.
(as a painter my motivations for painting are far different than that of
doing origami. Not that that is any proof that is not art. Different
artists do have diverse motivations after all. But as a traditional
artist I do question if origami is art. Since I have never truly
designed an original model , but I have altered and modified others
models to put my own flair into it. But does that make it art? Is it an
art if the persons motivations are different from mine?))

While I have interjected some of my opinions into this but it just
intended to give you something to think about. These are things I have
thought about. I have not put any set in stone answers to most. Perhaps
you have. What s your opinion?

Marcus AKA Soren

P.S. I m looking for tiger diagrams





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 12:19:45 -0800
Subject: Re: Hands

At 18:31 1999-01-23 +0100, Peter Budai wrote:
>Joseph Wu wrote:
>
>>It is interesting to note, too, that Xuxa joined the list
>>at exactly the right time to participate (and add fuel to the fire)
>
>Wasn't that rather TriNitro-Toluol?

Why not? Explosives can be used as fuel, and vice versa.

>Just to mention, "Xuxa" as a Spanish-language name hasn't been too OK for me
>but since I do not know everything, I did not bother about it too much. Does
>such a Spanish-language name exists? (I am quite informed about Hungarian
>names, though ;)

"Xuxa" is a perfectly valid Portuguese name. There's a famous Brazillian
entertainer by that name, for example. I would assume, given the similarities
between the Portuguese and Spanish languages that "Xuxa" would also be a valid
Spanish name.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Rjlang@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:08:37 -0500 (
Subject: Re: The REAL Robert Lang

A public message to robjlang, aka Rob, aka "Bobby":

You know, Bob, I've tried, I've really tried to be tolerant. I've certainly
honored my side of the agreement. I've been paying you royalties on the cuckoo
clock thing for YEARS, and you promised -- PROMISED -- to keep your part in it
quiet. So you get off living in splendor off of MY ROYALTIES and I have to
keep postponing my cancer operation. And when all those people sent me
complaints about how "those bug things are too damned hard," and "what kind of
an insect is a 'Kin'?" I couldn't very well say, "it's not my fault, it wasn't
ME who designed them," now could I? But the money just wasn't enough for you,
was it? You have to steal the glory now.

Well, this does it. The kid gloves come off. No more Mr. Nice Guy. Let the
chips fall where they may. I don't care if the whole world knows that the only
model I actually designed myself was the "Cypress Stump" in Origami Animals. I
can't keep living a lie.

Can't you just forgive and forget? Take Sue. I mean, we had some fun, we
schmoozed, we split. No big deal, right? You can't lay that at my feet. Some
people are just naturally high-strung, and besides, she should have learned
how to swim better.

And you always were jealous about my beard. Well, I have to say -- and I mean
this with all the nurturing sensitivity I can muster -- NEENER NEENER NEENER,
you naked-faced twerp. God, how I've hated you. I remember when you showed Mia
the valentine I sent you -- I'm sure that's where she got the idea to send one
to Woody. Well, you deserved it. My life has been misery. Every time I turned
the corner, it was "when will Bobby show up next with his extortionist
demands?" The phone calls late at night, the mysterious mailings, the constant
email bombardments with ads for cable TV descramblers -- I knew it was you,
you know. "The lion is known by his footprints."

Well, now you've blown the goose that laid the golden deal, haven't you? Hah!
I'm FREE of 30 years of living a lie. I don't care if the WHOLE WORLD knows
it. But there's something you need to know, Bob, that your mother never told
you. I AM YOUR FATHER. Join with me! Together we can RULE ORIGAMI! Or I will
have to cut off your hand, just like I did to Hector.

Robert J. Lang





From: Jeff Kerwood <jkerwood@USAOR.NET>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 13:16:43 -0500
Subject: Re: Right angle division into sevenths

> Dolphin G wrote:
>
> >>>>
> I bought "The complete book of Origami" last year  but never made the
scorpion
> because I don't have the patience to divide a 90 degree angle into
sevenths
> with a ruler/compass/whatever.  Has anyone figured out a way to divide it
just
> by folding alone?  Thanks for any info!
> <<<<
>
> I don't think I've posted this method before. There are others in the
list
> archives.
>
[snip]
> Robert J. Lang

First, thanks Bob ;-), I mean Robert ;-) for posting this.

Question to all. Has anybody else tried this and succeeded. I tried it and
the division didn't come out correctly. I thought I was missing something
but then I talk to someone with way more folding experience than I and he
(or she ;-) said that they had tried it and it didn't work for them either.
Hence, my question to all of you - anybody had any luck with this method?

Thanks, Jeff Kerwood





From: Jeff DeHerdt <jadeherd@IUPUI.EDU>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:18:49 -0500
Subject: Re: help with thousand cranes hanging

        I hope John has a quick recovery, Ria. I'll start folding some
tonight. Lord knows I need to practice on the simple traditional forms
anyway. Hopefully, I won't mangle them beyond recognition. Could you make
a display out of 990 cranes and 10 cat toys?

                                        Jeff DeHerdt

On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, John Sutter wrote:

> Greetings to my friends on the list:
>
> I've seen others post requests for cranes on the list before, so I hope some
> of the people I know on it will respond to my request.  I would appreciate
> some help from some of you out there to make about five classic cranes and
> send them to me so I can gather the thousand cranes I need to help me make a
> special hanging for my husband who is recovering from an operation.  He has
> a life threatening illness.  I have made 100 so far, and my origami club
> will do some too.  Even though my posts have John Sutter as the sender they
> are from me, Ria.
> And no, this is not a hoax like the sister of Hector Rojas posts.  I truly
> would appreciate any cranes you would send to me
>                      Ria Sutter
>                      51 Brimwood Dr.
>                      Vernon, CT 06066
>
> The cranes are for John Sutter!   PS  It was so funny to see his name in the
> top 10 of people who post to the list since he doesn't even use the email
> very much:)





From: Jeff DeHerdt <jadeherd@IUPUI.EDU>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 14:21:43 -0500
Subject: Re: The REAL Robert Lang

        And the list takes another turn into the realm of film noir. Or
would that be origami noir? origami-do noir?

                                Jeff DeHerdt

On Fri, 22 Jan 1999, Robert Lang wrote:

> <sigh>
>
> It's happened to me again.  I've been mistaken for Robert Lang "the
> author"  I am doomed to forever live in his shadow.  His game of petty
> "one-upmanship" has been going on for years.  Everything I invent, he
> steals and re-invents.  Every time i plan a major release, the "real"
> Lang jumps ahead of the circuit.  Anyone remember my "black forest
> wristwatch"?  I didn't think so.
>
> This doesn't end with origami.  I'm also an engineer.  My research
> funding on "high powered military flashlights" was cut when you-know-who
> whispered in somebody's ear about "laserbeams".
>
> And the worst part--- knowing that I have a rare depilatory condition
> that doesn't allow more than a goatee to sprout on my face, the "real"
> Mr. Lang sports a full-beard, in utter defiance of my tragic condition.
>
> Thank you for your time, gentle people..
>
> "Bobby" Lang
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Peter Budai <peterbud@MAIL.DATATRANS.HU>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:31:50 +0100
Subject: Re: Hands

At 10:21 AM 1/21/99 EST, you wrote:

>Hector he born with tres hands, so when he lose one , he have two still.
>Hand number three grows from his back side, so hard to fold with.

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????

I'm near to get a phrenic-cramp!!!

So can I officially admit now that I have another head grown in the center
of my stomach? :)-|:)--<  Hahahaha.

Anyway, this was one of the best hooks I've ever experienced!

Peter "from now on I **WILL** check the sender-addresses" Budai





From: Peter Budai <peterbud@MAIL.DATATRANS.HU>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:31:54 +0100
Subject: Re: Xuxa Rojas- my apologies

At 09:54 AM 1/21/99 -0700, Andy Carpeneter wrote:

>Brilliant. Thank you Sue for taking us all hook line a sinker and exposing
>us for what we are (I'll let the reader give his own definition here - just
>like we should for the definition of origami really). I haven't laughed as
>much for a very long time.
>This exchange has been the most entertaining thing since I've seen since the
>Starr Report.
>Andy

Hehe, did you think that was still not the end?

Peter Budai





From: Peter Budai <peterbud@MAIL.DATATRANS.HU>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:31:58 +0100
Subject: Re: Hands

Joseph Wu wrote:

>It is interesting to note, too, that Xuxa joined the list
>at exactly the right time to participate (and add fuel to the fire)

Wasn't that rather TriNitro-Toluol?

Just to mention, "Xuxa" as a Spanish-language name hasn't been too OK for me
but since I do not know everything, I did not bother about it too much. Does
such a Spanish-language name exists? (I am quite informed about Hungarian
names, though ;)

Peter Budai





From: Peter Budai <peterbud@MAIL.DATATRANS.HU>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:31:58 +0100
Subject: Re: Hands

Joseph Wu wrote:

>It is interesting to note, too, that Xuxa joined the list
>at exactly the right time to participate (and add fuel to the fire)

Wasn't that rather TriNitro-Toluol?

Just to mention, "Xuxa" as a Spanish-language name hasn't been too OK for me
but since I do not know everything, I did not bother about it too much. Does
such a Spanish-language name exists? (I am quite informed about Hungarian
names, though ;)

Peter Budai





From: Peter Budai <peterbud@MAIL.DATATRANS.HU>
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:32:04 +0100
Subject: Re: The REAL Robert Lang

At 09:41 PM 1/22/99 -0600, you wrote:
>Tragic indeed, and unfair.

Have you been taken in? Or you're just ironic?

Peter "Before anyone claims herself my ex-girlfriend :) , I haven't got to
the point to be successful at nice girls :(" Budai





From: Paul & Jan Fodor <origami@ALOHA.NET>
Date: Wed, 20 Jan 1999 02:47:03 -1000
Subject: Robert Neale's address

Hi y'all,
        Does anyone have Robert Neale's address and/or email address?  If so,
would you mind sharing it with me?
                Thanks in advance, Jan





From: Kenny1414@AOL.COM
Date: Sat, 23 Jan 1999 18:16:07 -0500 (
Subject: Origami as a martial art (was Re: Flat (Fat?) Fish)

In a message dated 99-01-22 09:25:02 EST, you (Wayne Fluharty) write:

> ...and speaking of "Alice in Wonderland", could she have used origami as
>  a self-defense technique against the deck of cards? If so, what would it
>  have been called? Kami Karate (or Kami-te)? Tae Kami Do? Kami Fu? Of
>  course, with some of the posts lately, I'm not sure that we should be
>  discussing origami as a martial art...

Umm ..., maybe 'Karate de visite'? (A pun on "carte de visite'.)

Origamido/Origamijutsu   C  Orido/Orijutsu
and  C   Kamido/Kamijutsu
(where  the C is the subset sign)
as, respectively, the (shh.. it's a secret!)
theory/practice of using Origami, Folding, and
Paper(or Spirit/Holiness/God depending on the
written character) as martial arts?

I have a vague memory of coming across a reference to
a metal folding fan used as a weapon in one of the martial arts, too.

Wonder how you say 'a papercut' in Japanese?
'Kami no kiri' ?

Speaking of which, I once read a story where a professional
assassin is asked to demonstrate "the paper trick", or something
like that. He lightly brushes the nails of one hand against a
piece of paper, shredding it, because his nails have been filed
razor sharp in one direction. I think this was a science fiction story.
Anyone recognize the scene?

I've seen origami that resemble throwing stars and there are
origami representations of other weapons, too.

Aloha,
Kenneth Kawamura
