




From: Saliers <msaliers@HOME.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:19:21 -0800
Subject: Re: origami defined

At 07:46 AM 1/21/99 EST, you wrote:
>Isn't it great how the list has woken up again suddenly?
>
>Just a few further thoughts ....
>
>Doug Philips writes:
>
><<As I recall, it didn't.  'Art' crept into the discussion in order to
>distinguish origami from _other_ paper 'arts.' >>
>

More grist for the flame-war mills -- my definition:

  Origami is an art form in which the characteristics of an idea, object, or
  abstraction are expressed within one or more two-dimensional media
  predominantly by altering the form of that media through the action
  of folding.

Like most "legal" definitions, it leaves open to interpretation certain
subjective terms ("predominantly", "two-dimensional media", etc.)  It
doesn't rule out gluing, cutting, arc-welding, etc. as long as the main
shape is expressed by folding. It also doesn't rule out round paper,
rhombozoid asbestos cloth, checker boards, as long as the material can be,
in fact, folded.

Mark





From: Saliers <msaliers@HOME.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:28:09 -0800
Subject: Re: Kalmon rides again

At 02:32 PM 1/21/99 +0100, you wrote:
>>Kalmon writes:
>>
>><<It is about time that we get a definition of art>>
>>

Well, when I took art 101, and as confirmed by recent "60 Minutes"
documentaries, I learned that art was:

  The ethereal quality of certain entities or non-entities that can
  only be identified with certainty by especially endowed elite
  individuals, mostly from a certain large city on the Eastern coast
  of the North American continent.

I'm sure that resolves everything.





From: Douglas Zander <dzander@SOLARIA.SOL.NET>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 06:56:46 -0600 (
Subject: Re: Appeal for truce re Hecto Rojas

> Just as you displayed your personal taste in terms of what you like, there
> is nothing wrong with displaying what you do not like.

  I believe that it is ok for someone to state what they like or don't like
  as long as they give reasons for why they made the statement.  This is
  kinda what Joseph Wu did.  I think.  Joseph stated that he did not like
  the models by Rojas *as origami* and then he proceeded to state his reasons
  why he did not consider them as origami.  I learned long ago not to
  express your dislike for something unless you can debate intelligently
  what about it you do not like.

>
> ---
> Sheldon Ackerman.......http://www.dorsai.org/~ackerman/
> ackerman@dorsai.org
> sheldon_ackerman@fc1.nycenet.edu





From: Dave Brill <davebrill@WORTHHALL.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:16:15 +0000
Subject: Flat (Fat?) Fish

>
>Brill is a grump old flat fish that swims off the English coast, folds
>itself in to triangles, eats bad shrimp and throws up.

..but quite delicious when delicately grilled...
Yours

Brilly

davebrill@worthhall.demon.co.uk





From: good man <jess2800@WEBTV.NET>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:17:00 -0500
Subject: Re: origami heresy

Perhaps this is more heresy but here goes.  Like Clare Chmberlain, I
believe that the enjoyment people get from Origami is of utmost
importance.

Her posting led me to thinking about which folds have given me great
pleasure. I persoally prefer folds that do not require special paper,
special paper treatments and an endless number of crimps to make the
model recognizable. So I guess there are a lot of purist and/or elitist
prefeances out there.

Back to the pleasure part. There are so many  and at least three sources
of enjoyment for me: 1)problem solving on first go-round (Meakawa"s
"Frog", Lang"s "Tarantula", Mosely's "stellate
Dodecahedran",etc.:2)simple but aesthetically marvelous (Yoshizawa's
Butterfly, Monroll's "Angelfish", La Fosse's "Dove"etc. and 3) functioal
(boxes, chess sets, placemats,etc.).

Actually I was was surprised to find that in my ruminations I was
crossing some factioal boundries.  I have found the recent reincarnation
of "purist" debate highly unoriginal and therefore boring and the
criticism of the Rojas book excessive.





From: Boseditor@AOL.COM
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:46:04 -0500 (
Subject: origami defined

Isn't it great how the list has woken up again suddenly?

Just a few further thoughts ....

Doug Philips writes:

<<As I recall, it didn't.  'Art' crept into the discussion in order to
distinguish origami from _other_ paper 'arts.' >>

Actually it crept into Joseph Wu's and David Lister's definitions of origami.
Since to my knowledge no-one - not even Kalmon as yet - has managed to
successfully define art (to the point where a concensus even of those who call
themselves artists can be reached) I felt that including the word in a
definition of origami was self-defeating.

<<  Chris Palmer's fabric tessellations are a great
counter example that origami needs to be defined as paper only.>>

The point I was making is that origami = folding-paper is the starting point.
It's not something I made up. It's what the word literally means. Personally I
would agree that Chris's tesselations are origami (though if I was in one of
my more pedantic moods - and hey, I am - I'd say they were origamic) since
they could equally well - but less easily - be produced in paper.

<<But, for the sake of discussion, lets say we do stick with requiring paper.
What is paper?  100% Kozo?  What about adding cotton and sizing, or using a
different fiber?>>

Actually what is paper and what isn't is already well-defined. Fundamentally
it's a sheet of  macerated fibres which are chemically bonded together. That
isn't a text book definition - but it's close. What the fibres are doesn't
matter in the least - as long as the contain enough cellulose for the bonds to
form. (I think. Any chemists on the list are welcome to set me right!)

<<So why bother?

Because it is interesting!>>

Okay - got me there. I agree - though I think what I mean't was 'Why bother to
fall out about it?'

Jerry D. Harris" writes:

<<This is just silly, though!  By the same logic, painting a fence is
equal to anything Van Gogh did in terms of artistry (if not skill), and
those machines that spray paint on cars are just as valid artists as paper
folding machines, not to mention human origamists and artists who work in
paint.>>

Your point is valid. My point was different though. Me painting a fence and
Van Gogh painting a picture are both painting. The same process with different
results. Hey - but who's to say my fence won't end up in the Tate?

K.A. Lundberg" writes

<<But origami is a craft and any craft can rise to the level of being 'art'>>

Now this I whole-heartedly agree with! I once saw a wonderful exhibition of
Canadian tapestries in the curving gallery at the Barbican Centre in London.
The images will stay with me throughout my life.

Eric Eros writes:

<<The first question folks are asking is 'what is good origami?'.  The second
is 'is origami an art form or only a
craft?'.  And only at the end are we asking 'what is origami?'.>>

Yep - cart before the horse. And that's quite possibly why we aren't getting
any answers!

<<I think rubber has two properties that keep it from being used as
origami--it stretches, and it doesn't form
sharp points.>>

I found what you had to say really interesting. Now here's a thing. When you
dampen paper and fold it - it stretches! Not like rubber - but to a
considerable extent. So perhaps what Yoshizawa has spent his life doing isn't
origami after all!

Kalmon writes:

<<It is about time that we get a definition of art>>

Go on then Kalmon - if anyone can do it, you can!

Dave Mitchell





From: Sheldon Ackerman <ackerman@DORSAI.ORG>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 07:46:48 -0500
Subject: Re: Appeal for truce re Hecto Rojas

>
> When I recommended the book Animal Oigami by Rojas I didn't anticipate
> that I would start a prolonged and often heated debate,which developed
> into what is and isn't origami.

There is nothing wrong with such a debate.
>
> If it so happens that a great number of other folders dislike and it
> seems to me hate his style, so be it. These people should continue to
> fold what they like to fold.
> Why publicly display their personal distaste?

Just as you displayed your personal taste in terms of what you like, there
is nothing wrong with displaying what you do not like.

> Yes I know about freeedom of expression and a healty debate etc. but why
> put off people who might otherwise have liked folding from the book. Let
> people decide for themselves.

It works the same way regarding movie reviews by critics. It is up to the
individual to STILL decide for himself whether or not he will see the movie.

>
> Finally I would like to suugest that this subject has been debated at
> length for long enough. Views have been expressed from all sides both
> for and against the styles in the book. Should we not let the matter
> rest?

That is your opinion again :-)

>
> I am fairly new to the list but I must express my dismay at the degree
> of villification and lack of tolerance I have noticed in many of the
> messsages over the last week or two. It has certainly made me wary of
> recommending anything else again.
>
> Regards
>
> Imtiaz

Imtiaz, you should not be turned off by anything that happens here. The
thread you started is perfect for this list. Imagine a list where on person
states an opinion and 40 others then send a message saying what a great
opinion it is. I would find such a list quite boring.

Just my opinion :-)

---
Sheldon Ackerman.......http://www.dorsai.org/~ackerman/
ackerman@dorsai.org
sheldon_ackerman@fc1.nycenet.edu





From: Robert Lang <robjlang@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:07:22 -0800 (
Subject: Xuxa Rojas- my apologies

Hi everybody,

I'd like to apologize for the Xuxa Rojas "incidents."  "Xuxa" is, in
reality, Sue Johnson, an ex-girlfriend of mine from many years ago.  She
was quite familiar with origami, it's history and prominent authors
during our time together.  She also knew that I was impressed with
Rojas' work.  She found this very amusing, considering the degree to
which I engineer my models in a "purist" fashion.

I felt that I should mention this as soon as possible, before she began
to imply that my "one-armed" violinist was, indeed, a tribute to
Hector's musical prowess.

And Sue, please know that things can never work between us.  And please,
stop calling.

Sincerely,

Rob Lang

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: good man <jess2800@WEBTV.NET>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:36:26 -0500
Subject: Re: Owl model, but a little more complex

The Owl mdel that comes to mind (fairly easy, taught at a
convention.etc) might be a delightful one by Stephen Weiss (diagrammed
by Dave Brill) it even sits on your finger as in the diagram. Ithink it
was 1982 try checking Joseph Wu's or OUSA' archives.
If you do decide to delve the archives you might also look for Models by
Max Hulme ('75); Montroll ('80): Bob Neale and James Sakoda.  The one by
Bob Neale is probably the easiest.
Sorry I can' be more specific as to the available sources for these
models but alas I do not have an encyclopeadic memory I often wish I
had).





From: Larry Finch <LarryFinch@AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:51:33 -0500 (
Subject: Re: Knitting? Art? [Was Re: origami defined]

In a message dated 99-01-20 14:14:09 EST, Lisa_Hodsdon@HMCO.COM writes:

> Eric Eros wrote:
>  >so I guess I would say that it's
>  >POSSIBLE to create art through knitting, but no one's done it yet
>
>  Actually, there was a woman at Art & Math '98 who was knitting
>  fractal wall-hangings. They were art in my book. Perhaps not
>  _great_ art, but museum quality none-the-less. I'm not going to
>  try to find her name unless someone's really interested.
>

There's also Kaffe Fassett, a knit artist who works in London. He sells the
works he creates to wear, but if you look at them you would probably consider
them art.

Larry





From: Jane Rosemarin <jfrmpls@SPACESTAR.NET>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:54:03 -0600
Subject: Re: Knitting? Art? [Was Re: origami defined]

Larry wrote:
>There's also Kaffe Fassett, a knit artist who works in London. He sells the
>works he creates to wear, but if you look at them you would probably consider
>them art.

Indeed, there was a Kaffe Fassett show last year at the Minneapolis
Institute of Arts. The Institute has an active textiles department. I
imagine the textiles curator considers this instance of knitting to be
art.

The Institute once had Origami Minnesota members teaching at an open
house. It was before I joined OM, so I don't know the context, or if any
conclusions about origami as art may be drawn.

Then, there was the Japanese textiles show at the Museum of Modern Art in
New York  last fall, which some members of the list wrote about. In this
show, dyeing, pleating and manufacturing techniques were all take
seriously as tools in the creation of art.

I suppose that while there is a central body of art that most critics and
scholars would agree upon, there is a substantial number of art forms,
styles, practitioners, etc., that are accepted by some connoisseurs, but
not others.

-Jane





From: Larry Finch <LarryFinch@AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:55:21 -0500 (
Subject: Re: Mesh folding

In a message dated 99-01-20 14:43:47 EST, lmh@COMPUSMART.AB.CA writes:

> Hi Everyone,
>  I was in a local craft store and they were selling  mesh like screen for
> folding origami.  Has anyone tried it and with what results and models?  The
> mesh came in assorted colors and sizes and showed the crane as the model.
>
>  Lynda
>

I have a roll of copper window screening that I periodically fold things from,
although I have to let my hands recover from the scratches when I'm done ;-)
My favorite work was a classic jumping frog (that didn't jump very well
because of the material). Unfortunately, it was stolen from my garden a while
ago :-(

Larry





From: Sy Chen <sychen@EROLS.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:24:51 -0500
Subject: (NO)  Re: origami programs

I just visited their web site. They even have an Origami mailing list.

-----Original Message-----
From: Bruce Stephens <b.stephens@ISODE.COM>
To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Date: Thursday, January 21, 1999 7:40 AM
Subject: Re: origami programs

>Jean-Jerome CASALONGA <jj-casalonga@MAGIC.FR> writes:
>
>> It came back with 4 interesting results :
>
>[...]
>
>> - Origami v4.1
>> is a "folding" programmer's editor.   (Windows 95/98/NT, Jul 4/98,
>> shareware)
>> http://www.softseek.com/Programming/Editors/Review_6728_index.html
>
>This one isn't interesting.  It's a perfectly good text editor, but
>that's all it is---it's nothing to do with origami, except that the
>word "folding" is used.





From: Andy Carpenter <Andy.Carpenter@MCI.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 09:54:20 -0700
Subject: Re: Xuxa Rojas- my apologies

Brilliant. Thank you Sue for taking us all hook line a sinker and exposing
us for what we are (I'll let the reader give his own definition here - just
like we should for the definition of origami really). I haven't laughed as
much for a very long time.

This exchange has been the most entertaining thing since I've seen since the
Starr Report.

Andy
http://carpo.home.mindspring.com/AndysOrigamiPage/

-----Original Message-----
From:   Origami Mailing List [mailto:Origami@MIT.Edu] On Behalf Of Robert Lang
Sent:   Thursday, January 21, 1999 9:07 AM
To:     ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject:        Xuxa Rojas- my apologies

Hi everybody,

I'd like to apologize for the Xuxa Rojas "incidents."  "Xuxa" is, in
reality, Sue Johnson, an ex-girlfriend of mine from many years ago.  She
was quite familiar with origami, it's history and prominent authors
during our time together.  She also knew that I was impressed with
Rojas' work.  She found this very amusing, considering the degree to
which I engineer my models in a "purist" fashion.

I felt that I should mention this as soon as possible, before she began
to imply that my "one-armed" violinist was, indeed, a tribute to
Hector's musical prowess.

And Sue, please know that things can never work between us.  And please,
stop calling.

Sincerely,

Rob Lang

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:03:56 -0500
Subject: Re: Owl model, but a little more complex

Hatori Koshiro wrote:
>
> KOMATSU's Horned Owl is on Tanteidan Newsletter issue 49.

Also identifying that issue are the numerals:  98  4  15
which I presume means the April 15th, 1998 issue?  It also has
the numerals 9 1 which I'm guessing mean volume 9, number 1?

I have heard that older years of the Tanteidan Newsletter are no longer
available, but I suspect that last year's issues are still available.  As has
been mentioned in the past, ordering these from Japan can be annoying due to
the currency conversion fees and time delays involved.  Check the archives for
past messages, though sadly there seems to be no simple solution.

-D'gou





From: Michael Gibson <mig@ISD.CANBERRA.EDU.AU>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:09:35 +1100
Subject: directional disabled?

> On Tue, 19 Jan 1999, Llana L. Harmon wrote:

> > For all of those expert folders out there, it might be better for
> > everyone to share their expertise in folding to assist those like myself
> > who are directionally disabled (left handed) and those who sometimes
> > find themselves unable to fold a complex model.
>

Just as an aside, do you really find being left-handed a directional
disability when folding? I ask this being "sinistral" myself, though I
never thought about it affecting the practice of origami in the same way
that it might, for example, affect learning to knit. I confess to not
being a 'purist leftie' ie. cutlery settings don't pose any problems ;}

Or were you just being funny? (and hence making my question officially
"stoopid")

Regards,
Michael Janssen-Gibson

(and why the conflict between signature name and e-mail name? I was
married after the work account was opened, and have never got around to
asking 'them' to change it)





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:13:06 -0500
Subject: Re: Mesh folding

Larry Finch wrote:
> I have a roll of copper window screening that I periodically fold things from,
> although I have to let my hands recover from the scratches when I'm done ;-)

What sizes and shapes do you start from?  I have a roll of just "plain" screen
door mesh that I've had sitting around for a few years.  I even bought a pair
of "work" gloves to wear when folding it, but haven't "gotten around to it"
(yet).  I figured the gloves would make the folding harder, but safety from
scratches (or worse) and the larger sizes of "paper" I was planning to use
would help make up for it.  How do you make your creases firm?  Do you stand
on them, or do you have to use pliers or some other instrument?

> My favorite work was a classic jumping frog (that didn't jump very well
> because of the material). Unfortunately, it was stolen from my garden a while
> ago :-(

Bummer!  In the US, Spring is "just around the corner" so I'll have to dig out
the mesh and try for some lawn "ornaments."  (I figured for any model where
the raw edge of the paper is exposed I would have to either tape the edges of
the screening or fold the edges back somehow to keep the pokey ends from
hurting curious passers-by)

-D'gou





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:21:21 -0500
Subject: Re: Owl model, but a little more complex

good man (jess2800@webtv.net) indited:

> The Owl mdel that comes to mind (fairly easy, taught at a
> convention.etc) might be a delightful one by Stephen Weiss (diagrammed
> by Dave Brill) it even sits on your finger as in the diagram. Ithink it
> was 1982 try checking Joseph Wu's or OUSA' archives.

Searching the model database on the OUSA web site
(http://www.origami-usa.org/) finds the only Stephen Weiss Owl model listed
there (remember, its a big database, but it doesn't have everything!) is an
Owl in the Lang/Weiss book "Origami Zoo" but I don't know if that is the model
that good man is thinking of.

> If you do decide to delve the archives you might also look for Models by
> Max Hulme ('75); Montroll ('80): Bob Neale and James Sakoda.  The one by
> Bob Neale is probably the easiest.

The OUSA archive lists more owls than I've folded, but it also lists, among
others, these two models which I have folded, and while they are more
complicated than Neale's, they are still pretty simple and give nice looking
final results:

Owl by Toshie Takahama (Low Intermediate, uses st/bird base)
Origami for Displays/Ornaments by Toshie Takahama page 4
Paper used is sq

Owl by Akira Yoshizawa (Low Intermediate, uses kite base)
Origami Museum I: Animals by Akira Yoshizawa page 47
Paper used is sq

-D'gou





From: Xuxa Rojas <RojasXu@AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:21:56 -0500 (
Subject: Re: Hands

Hector he born with tres hands, so when he lose one , he have two still.

Hand number three grows from his back side, so hard to fold with.

Xuxa





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:16:03 -0800
Subject: Re: origami defined

At 07:46 99/01/21 -0500, David Mitchell wrote:
>Isn't it great how the list has woken up again suddenly?

Don't you think this is by design? ;)

>Actually it crept into Joseph Wu's and David Lister's definitions of origami.
>Since to my knowledge no-one - not even Kalmon as yet - has managed to
>successfully define art (to the point where a concensus even of those who call
>themselves artists can be reached) I felt that including the word in a
>definition of origami was self-defeating.

Yes, I admit to that. But I really should have said "art & craft" or
"visual representation". I did not mean to restrict origami to art (or to
craft, or whatever).

>The point I was making is that origami = folding-paper is the starting point.
>It's not something I made up. It's what the word literally means. Personally I
>would agree that Chris's tesselations are origami (though if I was in one of
>my more pedantic moods - and hey, I am - I'd say they were origamic) since
>they could equally well - but less easily - be produced in paper.

Actually, they would probably be easier to do in paper than in cloth.

>Your point is valid. My point was different though. Me painting a fence and
>Van Gogh painting a picture are both painting. The same process with different
>results. Hey - but who's to say my fence won't end up in the Tate?

Aside: I was at the Tate earlier this month. Lovely gallery, with some
amazing pieces in its collection!

>Now this I whole-heartedly agree with! I once saw a wonderful exhibition of
>Canadian tapestries in the curving gallery at the Barbican Centre in London.
>The images will stay with me throughout my life.

Hmm...I visited there, too, but quite by accident!

>I found what you had to say really interesting. Now here's a thing. When you
>dampen paper and fold it - it stretches! Not like rubber - but to a
>considerable extent. So perhaps what Yoshizawa has spent his life doing isn't
>origami after all!

Let's not start THAT one again so soon after this one! 8)

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:19:31 -0800
Subject: Re: origami defined

At 06:19 99/01/21 -0800, Mark Saliers wrote:
>More grist for the flame-war mills -- my definition:
>
>  Origami is an art form in which the characteristics of an idea, object, or
>  abstraction are expressed within one or more two-dimensional media
>  predominantly by altering the form of that media through the action
>  of folding.
>
>Like most "legal" definitions, it leaves open to interpretation certain
>subjective terms ("predominantly", "two-dimensional media", etc.)  It
>doesn't rule out gluing, cutting, arc-welding, etc. as long as the main
>shape is expressed by folding. It also doesn't rule out round paper,
>rhombozoid asbestos cloth, checker boards, as long as the material can be,
>in fact, folded.

Bingo. This is what my original rough definition aspired to be. I'd only
make two changes, to appease the ART vs. CRAFT vs. WHATEVER crowd and the
PAPER vs. OTHER STUFF crowd:

  Origami is a form of visual / sculptural representation that is defined
  primarily by the folding of the medium (usually paper).

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:20:47 -0800
Subject: Re: Hands

At 10:21 99/01/21 -0500, you wrote:
>Hector he born with tres hands, so when he lose one , he have two still.
>
>Hand number three grows from his back side, so hard to fold with.

So, we have determined once and for all that all of the Xuxa messages were
tongue-in-cheek. It is interesting to note, too, that Xuxa joined the list
at exactly the right time to participate (and add fuel to the fire) in this
debate.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:24:08 -0800
Subject: Re: Xuxa Rojas- my apologies

Please note that this particular "Robert Lang" has an easily obtained
Hotmail email address, and that he joined the list just in time to interject
this particular message. Caveat emptor.

At 08:07 99/01/21 -0800, "Robert Lang" wrote:

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Message-ID:  <19990121160722.11303.qmail@hotmail.com>
>Date:         Thu, 21 Jan 1999 08:07:22 PST
>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Sender: Origami Mailing List <Origami@MIT.Edu>
>From: Robert Lang <robjlang@hotmail.com>
>Subject:      Xuxa Rojas- my apologies
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>
>Hi everybody,
>
>I'd like to apologize for the Xuxa Rojas "incidents."  "Xuxa" is, in
>reality, Sue Johnson, an ex-girlfriend of mine from many years ago.  She
>was quite familiar with origami, it's history and prominent authors
>during our time together.  She also knew that I was impressed with
>Rojas' work.  She found this very amusing, considering the degree to
>which I engineer my models in a "purist" fashion.
>
>I felt that I should mention this as soon as possible, before she began
>to imply that my "one-armed" violinist was, indeed, a tribute to
>Hector's musical prowess.
>
>And Sue, please know that things can never work between us.  And please,
>stop calling.
>
>Sincerely,
>
>Rob Lang
>
>______________________________________________________
>Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Charles Beittel <CBeit24275@AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:35:12 -0500 (
Subject: Re: Apology, Xuxa and Hector (was Re: Hector Rojas)

May I add my conclusion that Hector and Xuxa Rojas (the present subject of
extended discussion on this list) are fictions of a mischievous and fertile
imagination? (Not to say that Victor did not exist.) I suggest that "Xuxu" is
a secondary screen name adopted by someone just to keep a slightly
surrealistic line of banter alive. Wonder who the real ?@aol.com is?

Charles





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 11:58:29 -0800
Subject: Re: Threat from Xuxa Rojas

At 14:41 99/01/21 -0500, you wrote:
>Curse you, Wu!
>
>You have once again foiled my nefarious plans!
>
>Beware the shadowy crease that rustles in the night...

Shudder, shudder!

>and check the toilet seat before you sit down

Always do. ;)

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t: 604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331  e: josephwu@ultranet.ca
w: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





From: Bruce Stephens <b.stephens@ISODE.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 12:39:27 +0000
Subject: Re: origami programs

Jean-Jerome CASALONGA <jj-casalonga@MAGIC.FR> writes:

> It came back with 4 interesting results :

[...]

> - Origami v4.1
> is a "folding" programmer's editor.   (Windows 95/98/NT, Jul 4/98,
> shareware)
> http://www.softseek.com/Programming/Editors/Review_6728_index.html

This one isn't interesting.  It's a perfectly good text editor, but
that's all it is---it's nothing to do with origami, except that the
word "folding" is used.





From: Jean-Jerome CASALONGA <jj-casalonga@MAGIC.FR>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:08:22 +0100
Subject: origami programs

    Hello to all (and many kisses to Xuxa)

While surfing the web, I found a shareware site (http://www.softseek.com/),
and asked for "Origami".

You can go directly to the search result there :
http://search04.softseek.com/cgi-bin/search.cgi?keywords=origami&seekindex=i
ndex&maxresults=025&cb=

It came back with 4 interesting results :

- Origami flowers :
lets you create beautiful origami flowers with just a square sheet of paper.
(Windows 3.1, Sep 16/98, shareware)
http://www.softseek.com/Home_Family_and_Leisure/General/Review_19219_index.h
tml

- Origami v4.1
is a "folding" programmer's editor.   (Windows 95/98/NT, Jul 4/98,
shareware)
http://www.softseek.com/Programming/Editors/Review_6728_index.html

- Origami Theme Pack v2.1
is a desktop theme inspired by the art of paperfolding.   (Windows 95/98/NT,
Jun 3/97, freeware)
http://www.softseek.com/Desktop_Enhancements/Desktop_Themes/Miscellaneous/Re
view_10349_index.html

- Paper Animal Workshop
lets you create origami desert animals, and build a diorama with rocks,
cactus, and trees to display your animals.   (Windows 3.1, Sep 16/98,
shareware)
http://www.softseek.com/Games/Just_for_Kids/Review_19220_index.html

    I'll downlload these programs and tell you what they're like.

JJ Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasalongaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa





From: =?iso-8859-1?B?VEhPUktJTEQgU9hOREVSR8VSRA==?= <thokiyenn@GET2NET.DK>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:32:04 +0100
Subject: Kalmon rides again

>Kalmon writes:
>
><<It is about time that we get a definition of art>>
>
>Go on then Kalmon - if anyone can do it, you can!
>
>Dave Mitchell

Kalmon writes again:

to all you lovely people   especially Rose is a rose is a rose
I want to tell you that the +Ace after the art, was done by some machine
that does not like me - it changed my exclamation mark into +ACE.

The first axiom of Kalmonism is:
Communication solves all problems

so here goes  I am afraid of putting my definition
into quotation marks
the machine is sure to turn them into something
which has nothing to do with communication.
My short and precise definition of art is:

ART IS A WORD

Greetings from the great and glorious Kalmon





From: Larry Finch <LarryFinch@AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:39:04 -0500 (
Subject: Re: Mesh folding

In a message dated 99-01-21 10:14:09 EST, dwp@TRANSARC.COM writes:

> Larry Finch wrote:
>  > I have a roll of copper window screening that I periodically fold things
> from,
>  > although I have to let my hands recover from the scratches when I'm done
;-
> )
>
>  What sizes and shapes do you start from?  I have a roll of just "plain"
> screen
>  door mesh that I've had sitting around for a few years.  I even bought a
> pair
>  of "work" gloves to wear when folding it, but haven't "gotten around to it"
>  (yet).  I figured the gloves would make the folding harder, but safety from
>  scratches (or worse) and the larger sizes of "paper" I was planning to use
>  would help make up for it.  How do you make your creases firm?  Do you
stand
>  on them, or do you have to use pliers or some other instrument?

The roll is 3 feet wide, so I just fold it diagonally and cut out a 3 foot
square to work with. (I doubt you could buy copper screening in the average
hardware store; this is left over from a previous owner of my 200 year old
house and I hoard it carefully). If I'm feeling patient I solder the cut edge
to keep it from fraying. Thin leather gloves work reasonably well, but
sometimes I have to take them off for delicate folds. For creasing I use a
photographic print roller about 4 inches wide. It's a hard rubber roller
that's normally used for mounting photographs on a matte board.

Larry





From: Bruce Stephens <b.stephens@ISODE.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:40:58 +0000
Subject: Re: (NO)  Re: origami programs

Jean-Jerome CASALONGA <jj-casalonga@MAGIC.FR> writes:

> >I just visited their web site. They even have an Origami mailing list.
>
>
>     Let's sue them !
>
> We should ask them 1,000,000 US $ for using the word ORIGAMI in the wrong
> context !

I think we'd be a bit late.  The program has been around for a few
years, now.  I used it in a previous job, around 1991 or so, and I
don't think it was new then.  I don't know whether it predates this
mailing list, but it may do.

Anyway, it's not the wrong context.  It's following a long computing
tradition of playing with puns.





From: Xuxa Rojas <RojasXu@AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 14:41:30 -0500 (
Subject: Re: Xuxa Rojas- my apologies

Curse you, Wu!

You have once again foiled my nefarious plans!

Beware the shadowy crease that rustles in the night...

and check the toilet seat before you sit down

Xuxa





From: Jeff DeHerdt <jadeherd@IUPUI.EDU>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:28:01 -0500
Subject: Xuxa Rojas- my apologies

        Ah, the world of e-mail. This list is starting to take on a
surrealistic tone. Maybe I should start taking this list as the ramblings
of a single origami aficianado with a multipersonality disorder and
several e-mail accounts ;). But I agree with several people on the list
that this list "topic"  has taken more turns than a good mystery novel. Of
course, I already guessed that Robert Lang did it, HA!  Who would have
thought that origami would lead down such a path?

                        Popping the popcorn and on the edge of my seat,

                                        Jeffrey A. DeHerdt

On Thu, 21 Jan 1999, Robert Lang wrote:

> Hi everybody,
>
> I'd like to apologize for the Xuxa Rojas "incidents."  "Xuxa" is, in
> reality, Sue Johnson, an ex-girlfriend of mine from many years ago.  She
> was quite familiar with origami, it's history and prominent authors
> during our time together.  She also knew that I was impressed with
> Rojas' work.  She found this very amusing, considering the degree to
> which I engineer my models in a "purist" fashion.
>
> I felt that I should mention this as soon as possible, before she began
> to imply that my "one-armed" violinist was, indeed, a tribute to
> Hector's musical prowess.
>
> And Sue, please know that things can never work between us.  And please,
> stop calling.
>
> Sincerely,
>
> Rob Lang
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Jean-Jerome CASALONGA <jj-casalonga@MAGIC.FR>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:32:31 +0100
Subject: Re: (NO)  Re: origami programs

>I just visited their web site. They even have an Origami mailing list.

    Let's sue them !

We should ask them 1,000,000 US $ for using the word ORIGAMI in the wrong
context !

    JJ Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasalongaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa





From: "M. Litvinov" <stal@GLASNET.RU>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:44:56 +0300
Subject: What is not origami

          WHAT IS NOT ORIGAMI

I believe everybody knows what origami really  is, at least from the point
of its  usage. But the real question is, I presume: what is not origami!
Origami today is composed  of technical, geometrical, modular, compound
curvilinear origami; pop-ups, kirigami, tesselations, etc, etc... But should
we name all these various arts or crafts origami?  I do not think so.
     Firstly, it is rather unkind, in respect to the famous Japanese art.
Then it is rather confusing, especially for the millions of outsiders. Why
not have a new name for all of it? Nine years ago I proposed one: ORIGAMICS
(origamica, in russian). I believe this term is quite appropriate.
     Alas, although  I put it up  in a Russian magazine (1990), in BO
#147(1991), The Newsletter USA #37 (1990), and in Origami Science & Art
(Japan, 1994), there was absolutely no response from anywhere.
  Misha Litvinov.Moscow (Russia).





From: Hatori Koshiro <hatori@JADE.DTI.NE.JP>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 15:46:10 +0900
Subject: Re: Owl model, but a little more complex

KOMATSU's Horned Owl is on Tanteidan Newsletter issue 49.

 _ _ _ _ _
|         |  Hatori Koshiro (Koshiro is my first name.)
|_._._._._|          hatori@jade.dti.ne.jp
|         |      http://www.jade.dti.ne.jp/~hatori/
|_ _ _ _ _|_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
 If they keep on risking failure, they're still artists. (S.Jobs)





From: "Chamberlain, Clare" <Clare.Chamberlain@HEALTH.WA.GOV.AU>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:39:53 +0800
Subject: origami heresy

The debate turns full circle again - I guess being flamed is appropriate for
the origami heretic I am.  The debate is not what is origami, or is origami
an art or a science...although I am suspicious that many folder prefer the
mathematics of it all........Surely it is what enjoyment you (and others)
derive form it.

I still feel that anything can be folded if paper (or whatever) is
manipulated enough time - and if that's your bent, go for it.  But for
Goddess's sake don't make other a lesser folder if they don't enjoy that
type of origami.  Serious folder, experienced folder - what do they mean??
I am a highly experienced folder and teacher, but For me, to date, the most
beautiful fold is Takaham-san's yacht - and every one delights in making it.
OK, no doubt one could make a double masted schooner, complete with anchor,
but I personally find more beauty and pleasure(and 'cleverness') in creating
something out of as little as possible.  It all comes down to whether you
enjoy heavy oil paintings or an Asian brush painting.

As for my selecting my favourite dragon - I have looked at others, and there
are many more I don't know, but, at the moment, I have something that fills
me and others with pleasure.  Maybe Bill Vaughan (from my desk calendar)
sums it up.....middle-age is when you realise that you'll never live long
enough to try out all the recipes you spent 30 years clipping out of
newspapers........... I also recall visiting a Japanese Living Treasure who
made 2 kinds of wooden dolls in exactly the same design passed on for many
generations - perfection came through practice.  Not that I'm a living
tressure, but I fold a bloody good dragon!!  ;-)

PS I have 4 different models in the Viva series - I may be misdescribing
them, but that is how they were described when I bought them at various
Nippon Origami conventions.

Lots of love and hugs form the fallen folding angel...........





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:22:31 +0000
Subject: BOS website - problems

Hi all, we're having a few problems with the server where the BOS site
is stored & people are currently not allowed in. I'm certain all this
will be resolved soon. There may also be a slight change of address in
the not too distant future.

Apologies,

Nixuxu Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/





From: Jean-Jerome CASALONGA <jj-casalonga@MAGIC.FR>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:30:46 +0100
Subject: Re: Xuxa Rojas- my apologies

Robert lang said :
>in reality, Sue Johnson, an ex-girlfriend of mine from many years ago.

WHAT ! !  She said I was the only one !  She used to call me "my jeejee".

When I think she left me for  ... you !

I'm feeling so ... sad !

    JJ Caaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaasalongaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa





From: Robby/Laura <morassi@ZEN.IT>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:32:01 +0100
Subject: Re: Flat (Fat?) Fish

Dave,
At 07.16 21/1/1999 +0000, you wrote:
>>
>>Brill is a grump old flat fish that swims off the English coast, folds
>>itself in to triangles, eats bad shrimp and throws up.
>
>..but quite delicious when delicately grilled...

Great !!!! Typical of Dave Grill.....
And yes, I too agree that "fLat fish" should be a misprint.... Sorry ! ;-)

Roberto





From: Robby/Laura <morassi@ZEN.IT>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 18:42:31 +0100
Subject: NO: Outlook oddities....

Kalei,
At 19.14 20/1/1999 -0500, you wrote:

>Oops...Roberto did write me...and I thought I had corrected it since
>he didn't write me again.  Is this better?

It's quite OK now.... thanks, on behalf of the whole list ! :-)

Looks like most of the messages with gibberish or with unwanted attachments
come from the blessed Outlook Express program by one Bill Gate$ of
Micro$oft fame... Here are some clues to fix the problem once and for all.
I hope that all those using Outlook will be so kind to check its settings,
as they might be posting "bad" messages without realizing !

There are two kinds of problems due to improper settings:

1) HTML FORMATTING - This is undesirable and annoying, as it produces
useless attachments which waste time and disk space (remember that HTML was
conceived for the WWW, not for e-mail !). Here is how to set Outlook properly:

Menu TOOLS-->OPTIONS-->SEND. Enable "Plain text" for "Mail sending format"
and "News sending format". Disable "Reply to messages using the format in
which they were sent".

More info's on this website:

http://www.ping.be/houghi/nohtml/

2) INTERNATIONAL CHARACTERS - If you format (intentionally or by mistake)
your text using foreign or odd characters, Outlook will use the
International character set which will convert some characters to an
unreadable mess like this:

?utf-7?B?VEhPUktJTEQgUytBTmctTkRFUkcrQU1VLVJE?=
+ADs-
+IBg-dipl+APY-ma

etc. Here is how to set Outlook properly:

Menu TOOLS-->Options -> Mail format -> Fonts ->International Fonts. Choose
"WESTERN" as character set.
--------------------------------

Thanks for your understanding ! Bye,
Roberto





From: Marc Kirschenbaum <contract@PIPELINE.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 03:22:15 -0500
Subject: Re: Apology, Xuxa and Hector (was Re: Hector Rojas)

At 11:35 AM 1/21/99 -0500, Charles Beittel <CBeit24275@AOL.COM> wrote:
>May I add my conclusion that Hector and Xuxa Rojas (the present subject of
>extended discussion on this list) are fictions of a mischievous and fertile
>imagination? (Not to say that Victor did not exist.) I suggest that "Xuxu" is
>a secondary screen name adopted by someone just to keep a slightly
>surrealistic line of banter alive. Wonder who the real ?@aol.com is?

If you read one of Kim Best's responses carefully, the answer is contained.
Also the real Robert Lang would never sign his name as "Rob."

Marc





From: Eric Eros <eros@MOHAWK.ENGR.SGI.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 13:57:37 -0800
Subject: Re: Knitting? Art? [Was Re: origami defined]

Wojtek,
        I'm confused.  You sent...

On Jan 21, 10:21pm, Krystyna i Wojciech Burczyk wrote:
> Subject: Re: Knitting? Art? [Was Re: origami defined]
>
> [ plain text
>   Encoded with "quoted-printable" ] :
>Od: Eric Eros <eros@MOHAWK.ENGR.SGI.COM>
> >Do: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
> >Data: 20 stycznia 1999 20:37
> >Temat: Re: Knitting? Art? [Was Re: origami defined]
> >
>
> >Lisa,
> >
> >        We disagree about what art is.  I stated that one of >the dividing
> >lines betweeen art and craft is that viewing art should arouse some of the
> >subtler emotions in people.  I doubt that were I to look at a fractal, be it
> >knitted, painted, sculpted, or composed as music (let's forget the
comparison
> >of 1/f to music) that anything would be aroused but pretty/not pretty, or
> >clunky/not or jagged etc.  Good technique and good subject matter don't
> >make art, regardless of the subject.  You can guess that a lot of what is
> >considered art by others, is not be me...perhaps my loss.
> >
> >--
> >Eric Eros
>
>
> Eric
>
> Magdalena Abakanowicz is widely recognized as an artist.
> And she is using knitting as a technique of her art.
>
> Best regards
> Wojtek
>-- End of excerpt from Krystyna i Wojciech Burczyk

        Does this mean you're disagreeing with me or agreeing with me (yes is
not a reasonable answer)?  Does this mean Ms. Abakanowicz creates something
that satisfies my definition of art, or not?  Do you mean that you agree that
"a lot of what is considered art by others, is not be me...perhaps my loss" or
are you indicating that you think I stated it's impossible to create art by
knitting (which if you will look at the earlier message, to which Lisa had
responded, you will see I did not, in fact do).  I, in fact, find it impossible
to understand anything of what you wrote except for,
        a)  you saw my message,
        b)  you found it relevent to your message,
        c)  you are aware that Ms. Abakanowicz is recognized as an artist whose
            medium is knitting..

        Please enlighten me.

--
Eric Eros





From: "Askinazi, Brett" <brett@HAGERHINGE.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:34:10 -0600
Subject: Re: Lang's insects - Paper

All the pics of models on my website have a description of paper size and a
brief description of what type of paper I used, the name of the model, the
author, and the book that it can be found in.
http://home.i1.net/brett/origami.animals.html
<http://home.i1.net/brett/origami.animals.html>

It is made from a laminate of artists foil and Chiri Tissue that I got from
www.dickblick.com <http://www.dickblick.com>  (a good source of unique
papers).  Most folders call this laminate Tissue Foil.

For the laminate method I used artists foil cut to a rough square and the
tissue cut to a rough square.
Spray the foil (foil side up) with spray glue (I use Elmer's brand) and then
carefully lay the tissue paper over the top to bond the tissue to the foil.
After  the laminate is set, I cut it to an exact square.

The finish is two fold, the Chiri tissue has fiber and tree bark in it that
gives a texture, and it is very thin which lets the foil show through.

Unfortunately most of the cool papers that you see in books are hand made,
back coated, or tissue foil.  Which require a little or a lot of
preparation, before you start folding.

B R E T T

-----Original Message-----
From:   Andrew Daw [mailto:andrewd@REDAC.CO.UK]
Sent:   Tuesday, January 12, 1999 2:18 AM
To:     ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
Subject:        Re: Lang's insects - Paper

>
<SNIP>
> Also I found the Hercules beetle very Doable even with Kami. I have a
> picture of one done from 6" Kami on my website.  Also pictured there is
> langs long necked seed bug, considerably harder.
>
> B R E T T

I like the picture of the model of the "Long Necked Seed Bug" you have.
What paper did you use ? It gives it an impressive finish :)





From: Kim Best <kim.best@M.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 16:40:24 -0700
Subject: Re: Kalmon rides again

THORKILD SXNDERGERD wrote:

> ART IS A WORD
>

Speak of what is origami.  Has anyone seen Thoki's video, where he takes
a piece of paper. Cuts out a curved shape, freehand!  He then rapidly
folds it up, and has a cool looking giraffe or monkey or other animal.

I don't know if you would call it origami.  I'm not really sure if it's
kirigami, since paper is removed.  It's sort of like a origamic version
of balloon animals. How about thokigami?

I don't remember the name of the video or where to get it.  Hopefully,
someone out there can give the web address.  But it is a blast to
watch.  And it says volumes about the gentle art of just having fun.

--
Kim Best                            *******************************
                                    *          Origamist:         *
Rocky Mountain Cancer Data System   * Some one who thinks paper   *
420 Chipeta Way #120                * thin, means thick and bulky *
Salt Lake City, Utah  84108         *******************************





From: Kim Best <kim.best@M.CC.UTAH.EDU>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 17:21:55 -0700
Subject: Re: What is not origami

M. Litvinov wrote:
>
>           WHAT IS NOT ORIGAMI
>

Ok I'll give it a try.

Oil painting is not origami.  Rock sculpture is not origami.

Mountain climbing is not origami.

Chopsticks are not origami, but what you do with the wrapper is.

Monica Lewinski is not origami, but Clinton's explanation of their
relationship is.

Ken Starr is not origami, but the House Impeachment Managers
interpretation of his report is.

Juggling is not origami, but when Jeremy Shaffer does it, it is.

Xuxa Rojas is not origami, but a listing of the YOU-NO-WHO-Folders
e-mail accounts is.

David Brill is not origami, but the brill fish in Origami Sea life is.

Getting together to watch a movie is not origami, but getting together
afterward to try and fold some of the characters from the movie is.

Getting you feelings hurt is not origami, but what you can do with a
piece of paper, because you were willing to listen to someone else's
point of view is.

Not EVERYTHING in life is origami, but origami IS about everything in
life.

Come on people lighten up!  Whether or you believe the past week has
been a disaster, or one hellova lot of fun, depends on your attitude.
And I honestly believe that if you can take that attitude and express it
with a lowly piece of paper, that is what origami is all about.

--
Kim Best                            *******************************
                                    *          Origamist:         *
Rocky Mountain Cancer Data System   * Some one who thinks paper   *
420 Chipeta Way #120                * thin, means thick and bulky *
Salt Lake City, Utah  84108         *******************************





From: Sheldon Ackerman <ackerman@DORSAI.ORG>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 19:03:11 -0500
Subject: Re: Kalmon rides again

>
> Speak of what is origami.  Has anyone seen Thoki's video, where he takes
> a piece of paper. Cuts out a curved shape, freehand!  He then rapidly
> folds it up, and has a cool looking giraffe or monkey or other animal.
>
Wow! Your message reminds me of something I saw quite a number of years ago.
Could it have been Thoki as well? What this gentleman did was ask our group
of about 10 who were attending this meeting what object we'd like. He would
then proceed to fold a sheet of paper and snip it with a pair of scissors in
what looked to us like a random manner. He would then open the sheet and
there would be a number of perfectly symmetrical horses, letters, words,
unicorns. It made no differnce what we named. He was able to do it
immediately.

--
---
Sheldon Ackerman.......http://www.dorsai.org/~ackerman/
ackerman@dorsai.org
sheldon_ackerman@fc1.nycenet.edu





From: Meristein@AOL.COM
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 21:58:42 -0500 (
Subject: Re: Flat (Fat?) Fish

"'Twas Brilly, and the slithy toves..."

Merida





From: Krystyna i Wojciech Burczyk <burczyk@MAIL.ZETOSA.COM.PL>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:21:19 +0100
Subject: Re: Knitting? Art? [Was Re: origami defined]

>Od: Eric Eros <eros@MOHAWK.ENGR.SGI.COM>
>Do: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Data: 20 stycznia 1999 20:37
>Temat: Re: Knitting? Art? [Was Re: origami defined]
>

>Lisa,
>
>        We disagree about what art is.  I stated that one of >the dividing
>lines betweeen art and craft is that viewing art should arouse some of the
>subtler emotions in people.  I doubt that were I to look at a fractal, be it
>knitted, painted, sculpted, or composed as music (let's forget the comparison
>of 1/f to music) that anything would be aroused but pretty/not pretty, or
>clunky/not or jagged etc.  Good technique and good subject matter don't
>make art, regardless of the subject.  You can guess that a lot of what is
>considered art by others, is not be me...perhaps my loss.
>
>--
>Eric Eros

Eric

Magdalena Abakanowicz is widely recognized as an artist.
And she is using knitting as a technique of her art.

Best regards
Wojtek





From: Krystyna i Wojciech Burczyk <burczyk@MAIL.ZETOSA.COM.PL>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 22:54:10 +0100
Subject: Odp:      Re: (NO)  Re: origami programs

I think, we should extend origami definition to cover text folding also ;)

Wojtek

-----Original message-----
Od: Bruce Stephens <b.stephens@ISODE.COM>
Do: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
Data: 21 stycznia 1999 15:57
Temat: Re: (NO) Re: origami programs

Jean-Jerome CASALONGA <jj-casalonga@MAGIC.FR> writes:

> >I just visited their web site. They even have an Origami mailing list.
>
>
>     Let's sue them !
>
> We should ask them 1,000,000 US $ for using the word ORIGAMI in the wrong
> context !

I think we'd be a bit late.  The program has been around for a few
years, now.  I used it in a previous job, around 1991 or so, and I
don't think it was new then.  I don't know whether it predates this
mailing list, but it may do.

Anyway, it's not the wrong context.  It's following a long computing
tradition of playing with puns.





From: "K.A. Lundberg" <klundber@MNSINC.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:16:37 -0500
Subject: Stretched Bird Base Clover

Does anyone know who is created the clover model that is built on the
stretched bird base?  Is this a traditional model?

Kalei - klundber@mnsinc.com || ICQ 23969466
http://www.monumental.com/klundber





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 23:37:46 -0500
Subject: ORU #5 questions...

A query for those able to read Japanese, or those who might happen to have the
right patterns to match...

I would be remiss in failing to ask, though I suspect I already know the
answer to this one:  Does anyone know if the Yoshizawa Owl pictured on page
was ever diagrammed?

Back to the translation questions:  I would like to know who is list as
creating these models:

    The Otter model pictured on page 54 and diagrammed on pages 132, 133.
    The Crane? model pictured on page 91 and diagrammed on pages 122, 123.
    The Crab (does it have a more specific name?) model pictured on page
        21 and diagrammed on pages 149 through 153.  (Do I assume
        correctly that the five diagrams at the bottom on page 149 are
        supposed to show how to get one of the claws to be bigger than
        the other?)

Thanks,
        -D'gou





From: Rjlang@AOL.COM
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 00:20:16 -0500 (
Subject: Re: Xuxa Rojas- my apologies

Rob/Xuxa/una wrote:

>>>>
I'd like to apologize for the Xuxa Rojas "incidents."  "Xuxa" is, in
reality, Sue Johnson, an ex-girlfriend of mine from many years ago.  She was
quite familiar with origami, it's [sic] history and prominent authors during
our time together...[snip]
Sincerely,
Rob Lang [sic]
X-From: robjlang@HOTMAIL.COM
<<<<

Sue Johnson is a gal of many talents, not least of which is the ability to set
up a HOTMAIL account under a phony name.

Robert J. Lang
rjlang@aol.com





From: Wayne Fluharty <wflu@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 22 Jan 1999 06:19:10 -0800 (
Subject: Re: Flat (Fat?) Fish

>"'Twas Brilly, and the slithy toves..."

I believe the original quote was
   "'Twas Brillig, and the slithy toves"
but I haven't been able to find my book yet in order to verify it...
(from "Alice in Wonderland")

...and speaking of "Alice in Wonderland", could she have used origami as
a self-defense technique against the deck of cards? If so, what would it
have been called? Kami Karate (or Kami-te)? Tae Kami Do? Kami Fu? Of
course, with some of the posts lately, I'm not sure that we should be
discussing origami as a martial art...

Just ramblin',
Wayne "Flu" Fluharty
wflu@hotmail.com

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