




From: Doris.L@T-ONLINE.DE
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 18:56:00 +0100
Subject: Origami Deutschland Convention

Hi,
Angie, an Origami Deutschland member, wrote a report about the convention.
I hope you enjoy her report.

Origamically
Doris





From: "Steve Tauber/Steve's Cool Cave..." <spistevo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:19:18 -0700 (
Subject: Re: Starship Enterprise

>From owner-origami@mitvma.mit.edu Fri Jul 10 02:30:54 1998
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>From:         Richard Davies <richardd@REDAC.CO.UK>
>Subject:      Re: Starship Enterprise
>To:           ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>
>> There are on the i-net diagramas for the Enterprise by Marc
Kirschenbaum
>>
>> Here it is the link for the them...
>>
>>
http://www.rug.nl/rugcis/rc/ftp/origami/models.bin/enterprise/index.htm
>
>There is also an Enterprise NCC 1701 by Asghar Malik and Larry Hart in
BOS
>magazine 184. It starts from a bird base and is probably easier to fold
than
>Marc's. I can't give any idea of relative merit though.
>
>Rich
>Hi Rich, Thanks alot for your thoughtful and speedy reply. Might you
possibly send me a xerox of the BOS article? (or tell me who might have
it, or BOS's address??). Thanks so much for your valuable time.
Respectfully, Steve Tauber 460 2nd Ave #12-c
NY,NY 10016

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: "Steve Tauber/Steve's Cool Cave..." <spistevo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 19:23:14 -0700 (
Subject: Re: Starship Enterprise

>From owner-origami@mitvma.mit.edu Fri Jul 10 06:54:57 1998
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>Sender:       Origami Mailing List <Origami@MIT.Edu>
>From:         Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
>Subject:      Re: Starship Enterprise
>To:           ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>In-Reply-To:  <3.0.5.32.19980710081435.00a4b370@mail.dataphone.se>
>
>Larry Hart & Asghar Malik of London have quite a few trekky things, but
>they ain't on-line!
>
>all the best,
>
>Nick Robinson
>
>email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
>homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
>BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
>RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk - now with RealAudio clips!
>Dear Nick,
Thanks for the speedy reply! Might you have email or regular addresses
for both of these people? Thanks so much, Steve
ps-Are you with BOS?

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: "Steve Tauber/Steve's Cool Cave..." <spistevo@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 20:01:15 -0700 (
Subject: Star Trek Origami

Hello,
I previously asked if anyone knew of any Starship Enterprise designs,
for a book I am putting together. I just wanted to add that ANY other
Trek designs known of, are also VERY welcome.

Thank you very much.
Respectfully, Steve Tauber
460 2nd Ave #12-c
NY, NY 10016 USA

PS-Might anyone please send a copy of the BOS #184 Trek design? I'd
REALLY appreciate it GREATLY!

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Gallo P & H <halgall@NETVERK.COM.AR>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:56:20 -0300
Subject: Eudora Pro

Hi to all,

In some case I cannot read attachments on my mail system, and when I send
attachments some person cannot read it. If any of you have a same problem,
tell me, because I suppose that the new Eudora have a problem.

Happy Folding for all!!

Patricia Gallo

http://www.netverk.com.ar/~halgall/





From: Gallo P & H <halgall@NETVERK.COM.AR>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 21:56:26 -0300
Subject: short meeting in Argentina

Hi again,

Last week, I talked with Susana Arashiro, I do not knew she in person, I
saw in the International Expo-Hobby'98.
I saw some folds of she, and we speak about to do one show.
I'm very impression with her folds, she are very meticulous in it. Some of
them, geometrical folds ( interpretation of T.Fuse), a picture with faces,
animals. The stand was small, but the work was excelent.
She distributed small folds to the person who visit her stand, butterflies,
flapping bird, etc.

She said me that she have a small group of folds, all argentine-jappan and
she invited to me to join in her group. In this form the group will be able
form we can to do more things.

Cheers,

Patricia Gallo

http://www.netverk.com.ar/~halgall/





From: Gallo P & H <halgall@NETVERK.COM.AR>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 22:03:11 -0300
Subject: Re: Why this mail for me?

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for your answer.

Happy Folding!!!

Patricia Gallo

http://www.netverk.com.ar/~halgall/





From: Susan Dugan <florafauna@EMAIL.MSN.COM>
Date: Wed, 15 Jul 1998 23:23:02 -0400
Subject: Re: Thanks for Venus tips

Dear Liony,
Glad you figured it out. It took me about two years only folding units when
I went on trips. The assembly isn't hard holler when your through with other
39.
Hoppit.
Date: Wednesday, July 15, 1998 1:20 PM





From: Sebastian Marius Kirsch <skirsch@T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:45:32 +0200
Subject: NO: Netiquette (was: Origami Deutschland Convention)

This goes to all of you, not only to Doris in particular:

-- Do not send attachments to the list.

Although the listserver at MIT can process attachments correctly (the one
at nstn.ca could not), there are a lot of people on the list who cannot
read attachments, and for whom these attachments will cause many
inconveniences. Quite apart from the size of the files that are attached.
[Joseph: Can the listserver be instructed to bounce multipart/mixed
messages?]

This is my main point. But there is another point which people dealing
with the internet should keep in mind, not only when they are sending
files to the list (which they shouldn't anyway), but also when they are
uploading files to the archives or to a web site:

-- Do not send/publish files that are in a proprietary format.

The file sent by Doris was written with MS Word -- but many people on this
list do not have Word, so this file is totally useless for them. They may
not need Word, they may not be able to afford it, or it may not even be
available for their computer -- please keep in mind that there are many
people on the list who do not use Windows; some people have their accounts
at universities on Unix computers, others use Linux or Macs, so they
cannot use Word. (Even if they wanted to, which any sensible person would
not. (Sorry, this is just a personal aside.))

Please send text files (like this convention report) as plain text (aka.
ASCII.) If you absolutely need to preserve markup, use one of the freely
available formats -- either PostScript, PDF, or HTML. (I am not mentioning
DVI, which is standardized and freely available, but of which the majority
of people on the list will never have heard.)

Yours, Sebastian                                       skirsch@t-online.de
                        /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)

PS: Yes, I should normally leave it to Joseph to cuss out people who are
"misbehaving" ;) on the list, and normally I do not do it in public (Hello
Perry!), but this time I couldn't resist delivering my standard
"there-are-so-many-different-kinds-of-computer-so-please-use-free-formats"
lecture. Sorry, Mr. Wu, and sorry to all of you who had to read this.





From: VVOrigami@AOL.COM
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 08:59:49 -0400 (
Subject: Re: NO: Netiquette (was: Origami Deutschland Convention)

<<bounce multipart messages>>

This wouldn't work even if the listserver could do it, because some
mail programs (Microsoft Outlook) and the way some organizations
have there Exchange, MSMail, etc programs configured, the individual
user has no control over the fact that the darn thing sends multi-part
mail, even if there is practically nothing in the 2nd & 3rd parts.
Some of the "file attachments" being sent to the list are a result of
these email program quirks, and many are inadvertent on the part of
the sender.

valerie vann





From: Sjaak Adriaanse <S.Adriaanse@INTER.NL.NET>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:07:38 +0100
Subject: Re: Star Trek Origami

Steve Tauber wrote

>Hello,
>I previously asked if anyone knew of any Starship Enterprise designs,
>for a book I am putting together. I just wanted to add that ANY other
>Trek designs known of, are also VERY welcome.

Hi Steve,

be very careful! Paramount owns Star Trek in all its manifestations (at
least they think so) and may get nasty. They have done so with Ashgar Malik
from London, who also wanted to bring out a book with Star Trek designs.
Maybe you should get in touch with him, but I do not have his mail address.

Greetings,
Sjaak

Sjaak Adriaanse
email: S.Adriaanse@inter.NL.net
----------------------------------
We perform the miracles
Kate Bush





From: Steve Woodmansee <stevew@EMPNET.COM>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 10:21:06 -0700
Subject: Re: NO: Netiquette (was: Origami Deutschland Convention)

Someone said, "

Why should that be the problem of the several hundred of us who *don't* have
broken mail systems or mail systems that can't get configured properly?  Let
the people so-burdened use some other method of participating in origami-l
that
causes less trouble for everyeone else [do origami-l from home instead of
work/school.  Use hotmail or the like... *the alternatives are
near-endless*]."

I had the impression that the alternatives are *not* near-endless.  As we
have been reminded many times, this list is international and in some areas
of the world the e-mail providers do not offer robust solutions.  I also
understand that many e-mail providers can be expensive, charging by the
line or by the size of the e-mail.

I'm happy to have so many different people on this list, regardless of
their e-mail limitations.  If attachments create big problems I don't see
why we can't be more accomodating.

"Peace In Creases"

Steve Woodmansee
stevew@empnet.com





From: Bernie Cosell <bernie@FANTASYFARM.COM>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:34:25 -0400
Subject: Re: NO: Netiquette (was: Origami Deutschland Convention)
Priority: normal

On 16 Jul 98 at 8:59, VVOrigami@AOL.COM wrote:

> <<bounce multipart messages>>
>
> This wouldn't work even if the listserver could do it, because some
> mail programs (Microsoft Outlook) and the way some organizations
> have there Exchange, MSMail, etc programs configured, the individual
> user has no control over the fact that the darn thing sends multi-part
> mail, ...

Why should that be the problem of the several hundred of us who *don't* have
broken mail systems or mail systems that can't get configured properly?  Let
the people so-burdened use some other method of participating in origami-l that
causes less trouble for everyeone else [do origami-l from home instead of
work/school.  Use hotmail or the like... the alternatives are near-endless].

  /Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
mailto:bernie@fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--





From: Steve Woodmansee <stevew@EMPNET.COM>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 12:56:03 -0700
Subject: Re: How has origami influenced  your life?

What a loaded question!

Origami has made me look at everything around me differently.  I have
always loved paper, paper stores, stationery stores, etc.  Now I get
excited about all kinds of paper textures and treatments and I have
something important I can do with the various papers I collect.

I do quite a bit of air travel and often fold during the flight.  I almost
always end up talking to someone, especially flight attendants, who love
watching my progress.  In the case of the Fuse boxes I give them away if
someone comments on them favorably, which is always well received and
usually gets me a free drink or two.

I keep Origami on my desk and most of the other workstations in my building
have at least a Fuse box atop the computer, sometimes a couple of animal or
flower models too.

Origami has also encouraged me to contribute to the financial success of
Fascinating Folds, Amazon books, Powell Books, Waldenbooks, Barnes and
Noble and other enterprises.

Origami has taught that paper talks and has a soul.

Origami has taught me that I must learn more patience.

Origami has taught me that math is not the great Satan.

Origami has brought me in contact with the amazing, talented, passionate,
opinionated, fun, interesting people of Origami-l.

Origami has been one of the most wonderful discoveries I've ever made.

"Peace In Creases"

Steve Woodmansee
stevew@empnet.com





From: Richard Kennedy <r.a.kennedy@BHAM.AC.UK>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 13:12:38 +0100
Subject: Re: Starship Enterprise - BOS

Steve

> >Hi Rich, Thanks alot for your thoughtful and speedy reply. Might you
> possibly send me a xerox of the BOS article? (or tell me who might have
> it, or BOS's address??). Thanks so much for your valuable time.

The BOS do have a web site:

http://nw.demon.co.uk/rpmrecords/bos/index.html

I'm not sure if there is a mechanism for the purchase of back issues of
the magazine. There are lots of BOS members around, including many in north
America.

Richard K
(R.A.Kennedy@bham.ac.uk)





From: Sebastian Marius Kirsch <skirsch@T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:19:04 +0200
Subject: What should a diagram contain? (was: I'm afraid of my paper!)

On Wed, 15 Jul 1998, Peter Budai wrote:
> BTW, what do you (All) think a diagram should contain?

Shall I begin?

First of all, all diagrams should be shaded, even if the model is intended
for uni-colour paper. Shading makes many folding errors more obvious.

Secondly, diagrams should get by with minimal written comments. Recent
diagrams by John Montroll or Herman van Goubergen show that you can make
diagrams that need almost no comments. Since origami is a very
international activity, this makes the diagrams also more understandable
for foreigners.

If comments are absolutely necessary, one should perhaps contemplate (for
non-english diagrams) writing them both in English and in the foreign
language. (Peter Budai's or Heinz Strobl's diagrams are an example of this
practice.) [NB: Has someone suggested to the Gallery Origami House that
they publish their books with text in Japanese and in English?]

Thirdly, diagrams should indicate reference points as clearly as possible,
ie. using dots for points that are folded on top of each other, or
indicating the division of angles. I often miss these indications in
diagrams by John Montroll or Robert Lang. With these two authors you can
of course rely on the fact that they use reference points, but I do think
that expressly noting reference points would make the diagrams easier to
read.

These are my main points for now. If I come across other points, I will
post them to the list.

Yours, Sebastian                                       skirsch@t-online.de
                        /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





From: Bernie Cosell <bernie@FANTASYFARM.COM>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 14:24:04 -0400
Subject: Re: NO: Netiquette (was: Origami Deutschland Convention)
Priority: normal

On 16 Jul 98 at 10:21, Steve Woodmansee wrote:

> Someone said, "
>
> Why should that be the problem of the several hundred of us who *don't* have
> broken mail systems or mail systems that can't get configured properly?  Let
> the people so-burdened use some other method of participating in origami-l
> that
> causes less trouble for everyeone else [do origami-l from home instead of
> work/school.  Use hotmail or the like... *the alternatives are
> near-endless*]."
>
> I had the impression that the alternatives are *not* near-endless.  As we
> have been reminded many times, this list is international and in some areas
> of the world the e-mail providers do not offer robust solutions.

Sorry, but IMO it isn't up to providers to provide "solutions".  Providers run
servers that adhere to the various internet protocols.  There are probably
fifty email clients floating around the internet that are just a click or two
away from downloading to your PC.  Only folk using -other-peoples- computer
equipment run into a problem [since they often won't have the option of
downloading a less-broken mail client or the like], but in that case there are
still options: web-based email and such.

> ...  I also
> understand that many e-mail providers can be expensive, charging by the
> line or by the size of the e-mail.

I doubt the 'many' part, although given the heterogeneous nature of the
internet it is certainly possible [almost ANYTHING is possible].  But there's
still the question about whether such folk are truly locked into that provider
or whether they can just do email-via-the-web over hotmail, or make
arrangements for a pop3 mailbox someplace else [and use their ISP -only- for
internet access and _not_ receive mail at their ISP].

> I'm happy to have so many different people on this list, regardless of
> their e-mail limitations.  If attachments create big problems I don't see
> why we can't be more accomodating.

That's my point precisely.  Joseph and I and others have repeatedly posted,
over and over, that the *ONLY* form of email that really will be useable by
everyone on the list is plain, flat-ascii text, no attachments, no HTML, no
fancy fonts, no charsets stranger than ISO-Latin, lines properly folded, etc.

I believe [perhaps others don't] that it is the *poster's* responsibility to
arrange their personal setup so as to make their email conform, as opposed to a
poster sending out anything that is convenient and making the hundreds of
others of us have to accommodate whatever they chose to send.

  /Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
mailto:bernie@fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--





From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 15:19:57 -0400
Subject: Re: NO: Netiquette (was: Origami Deutschland Convention)

Bernie, I agree with you in principle, but in a less than
perfect world, it ain't gonna happen. For one thing, who's
going to be the mail list police who pass on what is an
acceptable email setup before someone can be admitted to
the mail list? And it isn't just work/school systems that
cause problems: a lot of new PC's are shipping with MSOutlook
(one of the worst PIA's IMHO) and being used by folks who
haven't a clue. And should everyone have to turn into an
email expert to join an origami mail list?

So how are you doing with the OUSA Annual models? Is that
why you're grumpy? :-)

Valerie Vann
..gritting her teeth and talking to herself after
decoding yet another "file attachment," only to discover
that it is MSOutlook junk again...





From: Beth Maccallum <elizmacc@UMD5.UMD.EDU>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 18:25:18 -0400
Subject: A New Maryland Group

A new origami group in the Chesapeak Bay area is forming. Meetings will
be held at the Severna Park Public Library. The first meeting will be
Saturday August 1st from 1 to 4. Please e-mail me privately if you are
interested in attending and/or have any questions.

Beth Maccallum





From: Pat Slider <slider@STONECUTTER.COM>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 20:14:51 -0700
Subject: Re: ceramic paper

I emailed someone at a great pottery supply store about ceramic paper and
got this response:

"I am familiar with the product you're asking about, and tested it 12-15
years ago. At this time, I know of nobody in the US who carries it. The
primary factor is the cost. When I tested it, it cost about $50 per sheet.
Shrinkage was about 18%, and it wasn't all that friendly a product to use."

I noticed that the chopstck rests on the Tanteidan page had lost a great
deal of detail in the process. Pretty, but it seems the origami just
provided a general bird shape. Would have been easier to just model a bird,
no? To me, if I want to create some ceramic origami, I want it to remain
looking like folded paper; otherwise, I'm sure I would do better just
sculpting directly. Actually, how about modeling a crane shape and then
just sculpting in the crease lines? Might be easier. Of course, that would
be cheating :->....

pat slider
slider@stonecutter.com





From: Peter Budai <peterbud@MAIL.DATATRANS.HU>
Date: Thu, 16 Jul 1998 20:37:22 +0200
Subject: Re: What should a diagram contain? (was: I'm afraid of my paper!)

Hi All diagram-interested,

Sebastian M. Kirsch wrote:

>Secondly, diagrams should get by with minimal written comments.

Or better: They should contain diagrams that are (almost) standalone and
written comments that is auxiliary for the diagrams ('borrowed' from
R.J.Lang). Written comments are needed, for example at complex models, where
there are XI-century-moves included.

And now comes the language-issue.

>If comments are absolutely necessary, one should perhaps contemplate (for
>non-english diagrams) writing them both in English and in the foreign
>language. (Peter Budai's or Heinz Strobl's diagrams are an example of this
>practice.)

I do write written comments because I write them for beginners and those who
get stuck at a step. It's a kind move to include text that helps them
through. Of course, a diagram should be good enough to enable an
'experienced' folder to leave out reading the text. But when problem occurs,
it's good to see a helping hand (row/s) there.

My problem is that I have only 50% opportunity to describe a fold on either
of the languages (and sometimes English is easier!!!). These times I envy
English-speaker diagrammers a bit... And I just not pretend writing a
3-language book, it's too hard (there are good examples, though).

>Thirdly, diagrams should indicate reference points as clearly as possible,
>ie. using dots for points that are folded on top of each other, or
>indicating the division of angles.

True.

>I often miss these indications in diagrams by John Montroll or Robert Lang.

In which ones?

And what about telling the complexity of the model, suggesting paper size
and type or showing the crease patttern at the beginning of the diagrams?

But now enough from questions, I'm going back to diagram 29 pages more...

Thanks for your input, Sebastian.
