




From: Paul & Jan Fodor <origami@ALOHA.NET>
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:45:01 -1000
Subject: Re: Confessions of a Paper Hoarder

Marcia Joy Miller wrote:
>
> Years ago I had a pet albino rat that hoarded sunflower seeds. I found
> it comical that he would build up such a tall pile of seeds to save for
> a rainy day (or a seedless day).  I guess I must be just as funny.
> I am a paper hoarder.
>
> In some ways I feel it is logical that I hoard paper.  Experience has
> taught me that if there is a paper that I especially like, it will most
> likely be discontinued.  This applies not only to origami paper, but to
> all papers useful to origami (giftwrap paper, art paper, wallpaper
> etc.). How much should I buy in fear it will no longer be available?  I
> do confess that sometimes I purchase paper, think it is going to be
> great so I purchase multiples of it then find out that the paper is a
> disappointment or that my paper tastes have changed.
>
> Sometimes I come across a paper that I don't appreciate till much later.
> Then it is too late to get more of it.  From those many paper tragedies,
> I have learned to test paper for origami soon after purchasing it.
>
> I further confess to you that I hoard little remnants of thin paper.
> These are the by-product of cutting a square from a rectangle, a smaller
> square from a square etc.  But I have been finding myself saving little
> one inch pieces. This is because I like to fold miniatures. It is
> starting to get ridiculous.  So unless I know that a paper is
> discontinued, I have a cut-off for what size remnant I shall save.
>
> I have confessed all this to you, because if there is anyone who can
> understand it will be other paperfolders. Are there any other paper
> hoarders out there?  How do you cope?
>
>                                        Marcia Joy Miller
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com
Hi fellow paper hoarder,
        Oh yes there are more of you out here.  I hung on to washi for 15 years
before using it.  I couldn't stand the thought that it would  be thrown
away after I made it for other people.  Now I make jewelry out of it and
I can even cut it up into one inch squares, destroying the total look of
the paper because I know that the little critter will be appreciated and
treasured for a long time.
        I have loads of paper scrapes too.  However, I found crafters who make
piece work cards or earrings and I happily give it away.  It's getting a
little tedious saving bigger small pieces to cut into smaller squares
when I need them.  Fortunately my husband is a part of my craft business
and he understands the paper mess I have to create.  actually, origami
is a much neater, cleaner hobby than basket making or ceramics which I
did before.  Anyway, I totally understand your paper madness.  I too
confess to paper hoarding.      Aloha, Jan
--
<http://www.gotomymall.com/hawaii/origami/>
Origami by Jan website...the Fodor folder





From: anne roberts <aroberts@FROGNET.NET>
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 17:52:06 -0400
Subject: Modular Castles

Dear Daniel B. Delgado,

There is some mention of  modular castles in Eric Kenneway's Complete
Origami.
It is Bluebeard's castle by (yes, that's right!) Ed Sullivan.  He gives
it 4 stars so its considered complex or has some time consuming steps.
I hope this was helpful.
Anne





From: Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@PIPELINE.COM>
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 18:13:20 -0400
Subject: Re: Modular castles

At 04:57 PM 5/23/98 -0400, Daniel B Delgado <origami@GROVE.UFL.EDU>  wrote:
>Are there any good modular castle things out there?

I forgot the exact title of the book, but something called "Origami in King
Arthur's Court" contains a pretty good modular castle. The book is
available through OrigamiUSA (www.origami-usa.org), so you should be able
to find it through their search engine.

Marc





From: Sebastian Marius Kirsch <skirsch@T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 19:12:06 +0200
Subject: Re: chat session time

On Sat, 23 May 1998, Katherine J. Meyer wrote:
> Greenwich Mean Time (GMT) is the basis for standard time.

Now more mundanely called UTC (Universal Time Coordinate(?)), I think.

> The chat session will air at 1:00 GMT (thats 9pm EST).

You should perhaps note that this is 1:00 GMT /on the following day/.

> The internet has websites to figure out how to convert your time to GMT.

AFAIK, for MEST (Middle European Summer Time) you simply have to add two
hours.

> Hope you can join in :)

I plan to join the chat next time; sacrificing a few hours of sleep is
nothing compared to that! ;-)

Yours, Sebastian                                       skirsch@t-online.de
                        /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





From: Jane Rosemarin <jfrmpls@SPACESTAR.NET>
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 20:27:11 +0100
Subject: Re: Confessions of a Paper Hoarder

Well, Marcia Joy Miller, I have the opposite problem. I throw thing away
too readily. Once I threw away a small rectangle with the words, "seven
thousand and 00/100," written on it.

But what I really want to say is that there is an amusing article by Ron
Weinstock on paper hoarding in the most recent Origami USA newsletter.

-Jane





From: John Sutter <sutterj@EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 20:53:01 -0700
Subject: Bluebeard's Castle

Hi Daniel,
     I thought you might like to hear from somebody who just recently
finished this model from the
Kenneway book previously mentioned on the list.  It was fun to do and I used
a Post a Note glue stick
to secure the tabs that fit the units together.  This is a good little
intermediate folder's project.
I haven't seen the other one mentioned on the list but I do recall seeing
the book recently at a book
store because it is fairly new.  I do think you should give Bluebeard's
Castle a try!
Ria Sutter
May the fold be with you!





From: John Sutter <sutterj@EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 21:16:21 -0700
Subject: Confessions of paper hoarding

Greetings,
      Marcia Joy Miller and I have a lot in common.  I have a Rubbermaid box
for wrapping paper with
sheets of washi paper from Kinokunia bookstore and rolls of different papers
I've had for about 2yrs.
now and have yet to use them up for the jewelry items I planned to make.  I
was experimenting with
models for jewelry and different papers and glazes for years, but then I got
interested in larger pieces
for displays and didn't get back to doing the jewelry.  Now I'm interested
in unit origami and compound
animal origami like animals made from two bird bases.  Someday I will use
the beautiful printed washi
for the kimonos pins and earrings that look like cloisonne and some of the
other models that resemble
expensive metal enameled jewelry when glazed.  Now I will credit the origami
artist who designed
the models I've used like Jan Fodor promised to do.  Before, I assumed that
most of the models I was
using were in the public domain.
Ria Sutter  ^   ^





From: Sarah Wooden <sarah@FREDART.COM>
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 22:52:02 -0400
Subject: Fluorescent Paper

I recently purchased fluorescent paper at an art supply store.  It is called
GlowMax and is distributed by Riverside Paper Company.  It is about $5.50
for 3 sheets 8.5" X 11".  It is coated on one side and is only slightly
thicker than regular paper and folds well.

I let the paper 'charge' while downloading and reading 77 messages from this
list and IMHO the statement "Glows brightly from 30-60 minutes" is an
exaggeration of its abilities.

Sarah





From: Magdalena Cano Plewinska <mplewinska@MINDSPRING.COM>
Date: Sat, 23 May 1998 23:04:55 +0000 (
Subject: Re: connecting

On Sat, 23 May 1998 09:13:17 -0700, Jeffrey Yen <nosti@MAILEXCITE.COM>
wrote:

>First of all, I'm new to the list.  Does anyone know a better way to connect
     origami papers together other than tape.

Welcome to the list, Jeffrey. The best way to get paper in proportions
other than 1:1 or 8.5x11 is to cut it yourself from a larger sheet.
Taping squares together has the problems you mentioned and also I
doubt you'll get a perfect square that way. I use gift wrap for large
and odd-size paper shapes.
--
Magda Plewinska                   mplewinska@mindspring.com
Miami, FL, USA





From: John Sutter <sutterj@EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 07:04:35 -0700
Subject: Sunday chat anybody?

Greetings,
       If I didn't misunderstand, Russell was going to set up the chat room
for folders to use any day
at 9pm.  So would Jeff Kerwood and any others on the list be interested in
Sundays?  And while we're on
the topic, does it have to be 9pm?  Could it be at 8pm?
Ria Sutter ^   ^





From: Jeff Kerwood <jkerwood@USAOR.NET>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 07:43:04 -0400
Subject: Re: When is next Chat?

Sorry, the below email was sitting around in my OUTBOX and got sent by
accident AFTER the answer had already been posted. So, no need to answer
it.

Sorry, Jeff

----------
> From: Jeff Kerwood <jkerwood@usaor.net>
> To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
> Subject: Re: When is next Chat?
> Date: Saturday, May 23, 1998 6:56 AM
>
> Russell,
>
> > I think maybe this chat network would be better served if we opened it
up
> > to ...say.. everyday at a given time (say 9PM)
>
> Which 9PM?
>
> > I will be starting school, again, next week...and have tried to get
this
> > thing up and going on my two week break.
>
> Thank YOU Russell for taking the initiative on this!
>
> Jeff Kerwood





From: mSaliers <saliers@CONCENTRIC.NET>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 08:55:08 -0700
Subject: Tall Vases

Now that everyone is folding *some* kind of rose, are there
any suggested tall vase models for holding one?

There are a lot of cup and/or earn sized/shaped models, but I've been
looking for something closer in style to the classic flower vase.

In the past, I've jury-rigged the basic box design (the one that just
overlaps or squashes the corners over the lip of the container) but
was wondering if someone had come up with something more elegant.

Thanks!

Mark





From: "James M. Sakoda" <James_Sakoda@BROWN.EDU>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:23:16 -0400
Subject: Re: Confessions of a Paper Hoarder

>I have taught adult school for many years in the community college system
>including lots of paper arts.As my fiance(now husband) was helping me unpack
>after my move from California to Ohio(now that's love), he happened upon a
>whole drawer full of brightly coloured paper strips, 2 1/2" x 8 1/2'', and was
>dismayed to discover he had helped schlepp this stuff across the country.
>Since I had been teaching the traditional masu out of originally 8 1/2" x 11"
>paper for years, I frequently found uses for these offcuts. Needless to say,
>we compromised; I kept some of them "just in case" and gave away the rest to
>an elementary school teacher.
>

>
>Merida(you never know when it might come in handy) Weinstein

One way to get away from square paper is to start with paper of different
shapes.  One of these is the narrow strip about two to three inches wide
which sometimes are cut off ends.  One use I had for them was for a wheat
stalk.  Another was for bulb flower leaves, which are narrow and long.
Both of these will be included in the up and coming printing of Origami
Flower Arrangement by Dover Pukblications, hopefully before the end of the
year.  I have also used narrow strips for a field which I called pipe
origami, which was based on bending pipes formed into a t riangular or
square tubes.  In the flower arrangement book it is used to form stems wit
h a hole at one end to insert other stems and leaves.  I have also made
chain links of various shapes--triangular, square, five-sided, six-sided.
It appeared in an isue of FOLD, which was a newsletter  shared by a small
group of folders.  Some day I may have a chance to put them into my home
page.  he trick to pipe origami is to learn to bend the pipes and also be
able to attach one pipe segment to another.  Some time ago there was a
discussion of making an abacus, and it occurred to me then that I might be
able to use a moveable units that move along a square pipe  to actually
make counters that could be moved.  So save your cut strips--they may come
in handy.
James Sakoda,  homepage:  http://idt.net/~kittyv





From: "James M. Sakoda" <James_Sakoda@BROWN.EDU>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:33:54 -0400
Subject: Re: Tall Vases

>Now that everyone is folding *some* kind of rose, are there
>any suggested tall vase models for holding one?
>
>There are a lot of cup and/or earn sized/shaped models, but I've been
>looking for something closer in style to the classic flower vase.
>
>In the past, I've jury-rigged the basic box design (the one that just
>overlaps or squashes the corners over the lip of the container) but
>was wondering if someone had come up with something more elegant.
>
>Thanks!
>
>Mark

In the revised version of Origami flower Arrangement there will be
instructions for folding a vase with a closed top for insertion of the
stems through a center hole and slots along the inside of the bottom of the
vase to hold the ends of the stems.  The vases can be square or pentagon
shape and may be folded with varying height and width, depending on the
size of the poster board used to fold one.  I'll let the group know when
the publication date becomes more definite.  James M. Sakoda





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 09:41:10 +0100
Subject: Re: chat session time

Sebastian Marius Kirsch <skirsch@T-ONLINE.DE> sez

>You should perhaps note that this is 1:00 GMT /on the following day/.

Noted - this is why you won't see me there for a while!! Us Ancient
Brits need our sleep....

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk - now with RealAudio clips!





From: Meristein <Meristein@AOL.COM>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 11:31:29 -0400 (
Subject: Re: Confessions of a Paper Hoarder

I have taught adult school for many years in the community college system
including lots of paper arts.As my fiance(now husband) was helping me unpack
after my move from California to Ohio(now that's love), he happened upon a
whole drawer full of brightly coloured paper strips, 2 1/2" x 8 1/2'', and was
dismayed to discover he had helped schlepp this stuff across the country.
Since I had been teaching the traditional masu out of originally 8 1/2" x 11"
paper for years, I frequently found uses for these offcuts. Needless to say,
we compromised; I kept some of them "just in case" and gave away the rest to
an elementary school teacher.

Next time, I'll talk about my flat files for paper, which are 54" wide and 40"
deep and full. And of course, the contributions to the collection by the
erstwhile husband/folder/paper conoisseur.

Merida(you never know when it might come in handy) Weinstein





From: MORGANA <la.llibreria@BCN.SERVICOM.ES>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 11:42:08 +0200
Subject: TO ARIEL, ALVAREZ'S PHONE

Sorry for no answer your question quickly.
I try to send privately message but the server returner it to me

I haven't the Alvarez's phone but I send you the phones of
spanish origame society, because he is menber from it. perhaps it's
posible to obtain his telefone by this way.

from madrid, spain 91-4576711
fron zaragoza, spain 976-436138

this prefix are from local calls. from international calls I don't now
the prexis, sorry.

Nicolas Jenson.





From: Jane Rosemarin <jfrmpls@SPACESTAR.NET>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:48:41 +0100
Subject: Re: Tall Vases

Mark wrote:

>In the past, I've jury-rigged the basic box design (the one that just
>overlaps or squashes the corners over the lip of the container) but
>was wondering if someone had come up with something more elegant.

Yes! I also used the rectangular one for a while. Then I found an elegant
twisted model in Fuse's Origami Four Seasons (ISBN4 900747-00-9 CO372
P1300E). It's by Jeff Benyon. It works well with backcoating, and LISTEN
HOARDERS: it has large solid areas of paper, and is great for showing off
the pattern of a prized sheet.

-Jane





From: Sebastian Marius Kirsch <skirsch@T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 12:51:39 +0200
Subject: Re: Confessions of a Paper Hoarder

On Sat, 23 May 1998, Marcia Joy Miller wrote:
> I have confessed all this to you, because if there is anyone who can
> understand it will be other paperfolders. Are there any other paper
> hoarders out there?  How do you cope?

"Any other hoarders"? Surely you're joking?

Judging from my experience, most paper folders also hoard paper and have
enough to wallpaper all their rooms several times---more than they'll ever
be able to fold in their lifetime.

I have rolls and rolls of paper, and I find that I am continually buying
new paper instead of using up the old stuff, because I always have a
finished model in mind and need just _the_ kind of paper for it which I
haven't got already---and then buy more of it than I need, of course.

I always envy people who have one of those special drawers for
blueprints---I suspect that if I ever have too much money (and, of course,
enough space in my room) this will be the first thing I buy.

Yours, Sebastian                                       skirsch@t-online.de
                        /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





From: Wayne Ko <wko@ISTAR.CA>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 13:01:35 -0700
Subject: Re: Modular Castles

>I forgot the exact title of the book, but something called "Origami in King
>Arthur's Court" contains a pretty good modular castle. The book is
>available through OrigamiUSA (www.origami-usa.org), so you should be able
>to find it through their search engine.
>
>Marc

The book is called "Origami in King Arthur's Court" by Lew Rozelle,
published by St Martin's Griffin  ISBN 0-312-15619-7 ($15.95 US/ $21.99
Can).  The book comes with 4 different castle plans:  a Fairy Tale Castle,
Merlin's Tower, Camelot, and the Enchanted Castle; it has a lot of different
modular units so you can design some pretty spectacular castles on your own.
In addition, it contains folding sequences for knights, ladies, animals etc.
All the folds are very straight forward and can be handled easily even by
beginners.

Someone also mentioned that the castle in Eric Kenneway's Complete Origami
is complex and rated 4 stars - I found it quite easy - it just takes a lot
of time since you need so many units.  The modules in this book have a major
problem - there are triangular holes all over the place and you'll need to
construct cleverly to incoporate or hide them in your structure.  Also,
there are fewer kinds of modules - Rozelle's include ramparts, drawbridges
etc. and is much more versatile and just looks better overall.

Wayne Ko





From: RGS467 <RGS467@AOL.COM>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 14:35:32 -0400 (
Subject: Sunday's Chat.

>Ria wrote:   Why 9? ...How about 8?

8 will be gr8t.....8PM (EST), that is...TONIGHT.

ALL are welcome!!!

Here is the URL :  http://www.the-village.com/origami/talk.html

Here is the link:   <A HREF="http://www.the-village.com/origami/talk.html">
Origami Talk</A> .

See you there,

       Russell  : \
RGS467@AOM.COM

DARE TO FOLD!!!!!





From: DonnaJowal <DonnaJowal@AOL.COM>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 15:15:49 -0400 (
Subject: Re: Confessions of a Paper Hoarder

Jane,

I do have the same problem as Marcia Joy Miller--one day I will accidently
move from the fourth floor to the first floor when it all collapses.  However,
I did noce mail Phyllis a check for about $7000, meant for my office from a
client, along with my order.  I still wish she'd kept it so I'd have a large
credit!

Donna





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 16:39:17 -0400
Subject: Re: Tall Vases

Jane Rosemarin indited:

+Yes! I also used the rectangular one for a while. Then I found an elegant
+twisted model in Fuse's Origami Four Seasons (ISBN4 900747-00-9 CO372
+P1300E). It's by Jeff Benyon. It works well with backcoating, and LISTEN
+HOARDERS: it has large solid areas of paper, and is great for showing off
+the pattern of a prized sheet.

Cool.  Unfortunately I can't locate my copy of that book (I'm not sure I have
it though).  However, I checked by Beynon BOS booklets and found a Floral Pot
model (page 25 of FOUR-IGAMI, Beynon, BOS Booklet 38) which might be the same
thing?  This model is pretty simple, it starts with a square, uses corner
kitefolds to locate four points along the edge of the square from which a form
of blintz is done, the edges of which define smaller central square used to
define four mtn folds, the corners of the central square are linked to the
corners of the original square with valley creases, which are then used
together to "collapse" the model.  The tips of the vase can then be curled
back.

-D'gou





From: Jane Rosemarin <jfrmpls@SPACESTAR.NET>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 17:17:15 +0100
Subject: Re: Tall Vases

D'gou's posting:

>Cool.  Unfortunately I can't locate my copy of that book (I'm not sure I have
>it though).  However, I checked by Beynon BOS booklets and found a Floral Pot
>model (page 25 of FOUR-IGAMI, Beynon, BOS Booklet 38) which might be the same
>thing?  This model is pretty simple, it starts with a square, uses corner
>kitefolds to locate four points along the edge of the square from which a
>form
>of blintz is done, the edges of which define smaller central square used to
>define four mtn folds, the corners of the central square are linked to the
>corners of the original square with valley creases, which are then used
>together to "collapse" the model.  The tips of the vase can then be curled
>back.
>
>-D'gou

It's the same one. In Fuse's photograph, the tips are pointing up; I
suppose either finish would look good.

-Jane





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 18:25:53 -0400
Subject: Whose model is this!?!?

I have a model that I failed to write down the name of, nor did I
record the creator's name.  It is a very simple vase/box, but so far
an exhausting linear search of various books has failed to locate the
info on it.  I thought that maybe someone on the list would recognize
it and fill me in?

Anywho.  Start with square, blintz.  Turn over and do all the cupboard
folds.  Collapse into a windmill base.  In each corner of the model
there is a square which is a lot like a preliminary base.  Fold each half of
the top layers into the diagonal of each of the four squares, as if you were
precreasing for a petal fold.  Instead, squash each of those flaps,
symmetrically on the fold lines just made.  I have seen this form called a
coaster (traditional model?)  As a result of all those squashes, there will be
four pointy points at the center of the model.  Fold those outward (they will
be pinned by the raw edges of the paper flattened in the squash.  This will
leave four fairly blunt tips at the center of the model.  Fold those outward
(they will be pinned by the folded edges formed in the previous step.  This
will leave a central square which is like a window on the bottom most layer
of the model.  Valley fold along those edges (this will define the base of the
box/vase).  Pop the model into 3D by reaching into each corner and inflating
it, then from the outside of the corner squeeze the layers flat (this
flattening will be making a plane perpendicular to the previously flat model.

Well, I hope that was descriptive enough.

-D'gou





From: Ariel <ariel@DATAPHONE.SE>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 20:27:36 +0200
Subject: WANT TO BUY: VIVA! ORIGAMI

HI !!

        Is there anyone wanting to sell his/her "Viva! Origami" book ? I would
     be
willing to pay up to 100-150 dollars. If so, please let me know by private,
personal email to: ariel@dataphone.se

        with my fingers crossed,

                        Ariel.





From: Christopher Straughn <christopher99@MAIL.GEOCITIES.COM>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 20:42:57 +0000
Subject: Re: Confessions of a Paper Hoarder
Priority: normal

I've found a way to make some tetrahedrons using those strips of
paper left over from cutting.  After I make a model, I use the extra
strip to make a tetrahedron.  I've got a collection of about 10 so
far in my locker at school.

> >I have taught adult school for many years in the community college system
> >including lots of paper arts.As my fiance(now husband) was helping me unpack
> >after my move from California to Ohio(now that's love), he happened upon a
> >whole drawer full of brightly coloured paper strips, 2 1/2" x 8 1/2'', and
     was
> >dismayed to discover he had helped schlepp this stuff across the country.
> >Since I had been teaching the traditional masu out of originally 8 1/2" x 11"
> >paper for years, I frequently found uses for these offcuts. Needless to say,
> >we compromised; I kept some of them "just in case" and gave away the rest to
> >an elementary school teacher.
> >
>
> >
> >Merida(you never know when it might come in handy) Weinstein
>
> One way to get away from square paper is to start with paper of different
> shapes.  One of these is the narrow strip about two to three inches wide
> which sometimes are cut off ends.  One use I had for them was for a wheat
> stalk.  Another was for bulb flower leaves, which are narrow and long.
> Both of these will be included in the up and coming printing of Origami
> Flower Arrangement by Dover Pukblications, hopefully before the end of the
> year.  I have also used narrow strips for a field which I called pipe
> origami, which was based on bending pipes formed into a t riangular or
> square tubes.  In the flower arrangement book it is used to form stems wit
> h a hole at one end to insert other stems and leaves.  I have also made
> chain links of various shapes--triangular, square, five-sided, six-sided.
> It appeared in an isue of FOLD, which was a newsletter  shared by a small
> group of folders.  Some day I may have a chance to put them into my home
> page.  he trick to pipe origami is to learn to bend the pipes and also be
> able to attach one pipe segment to another.  Some time ago there was a
> discussion of making an abacus, and it occurred to me then that I might be
> able to use a moveable units that move along a square pipe  to actually
> make counters that could be moved.  So save your cut strips--they may come
> in handy.
> James Sakoda,  homepage:  http://idt.net/~kittyv
>
Chris Straughn

Bonan Tagon!





From: Perry Bailey <pbailey@MTAYR.HEARTLAND.NET>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 20:58:13 -0500
Subject: Re: Confessions of a Paper Hoarder

>On Sat, 23 May 1998, Marcia Joy Miller wrote:

>> I have confessed all this to you, because if there is anyone who can
>> understand it will be other paperfolders. Are there any other paper
>> hoarders out there?  How do you cope?

On Sunday, 24 May 1998,  Sebastian wrote:

>Judging from my experience, most paper folders also hoard paper and have
>enough to wallpaper all their rooms several times---more than they'll ever
>be able to fold in their lifetime.

I'll have you know I resemble that insinuation!
If I don't cork off in less than five years, and never buy any more paper, I'm
     sure I could use up all I have on hand!

>I have rolls and rolls of paper, and I find that I am continually buying
>new paper

Ah! there now you see, thats our problem here, we keep buying "new" paper!

>instead of using up the old stuff, because I always have a
>finished model in mind and need just _the_ kind of paper for it which I
>haven't got already

Oh there it is "new" models, now if we all stop making new models and buying
     new paper, two things would eventualy happen.

1.  We would get incredibly bored and tire of folding the same models time
     after time after time after time.... well you get the idea.

2. Our frustrated Origami paper would get upset and might possibly even turn on
     us, and there would be no one to blame for it if it were to commit
     kami-kiri!!

Perry (who has just comited a painful pun upon us all!)

Paper, scissors, stone.....
Origami, Kirigami, bludgeon....
pbailey@mtayr.heartland.net
http://www.afgsoft.com/perry/





From: Kenny1414 <Kenny1414@AOL.COM>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 22:30:40 -0400 (
Subject: Re: Confessions of a Paper Hoarder

In a message dated 98-05-23 12:26:24 EDT, you, Marcia Joy Miller, write:

> I have confessed all this to you, because if there is anyone who can
>  understand it will be other paperfolders. Are there any other paper
>  hoarders out there?  How do you cope?

Oh, yes. I Hoard.

Not just paper, either. Books, magazines, newspaper clippings
(sometimes complete with the paper because I never got around to the
actual clipping.) I have or had a dozen copies of the first several
Montroll paperbacks, and of The Flapping Bird, after the miserable
experience with Robert Harbin's "Origami, A Step-By-Step Guide",
which went out of print about six months after it came out, just
before I had the time and money to go buy more copies.

How do I cope? Badly, I'm afraid.

As far as the origami is concerned, not too badly.
There's a whole bookshelf unit of Origami books, and such,
and another couple of units of papercrafts, cardboard crafts,
any other crafts (lei making, baton twirling, tattooing,
arabic calligraphy, ...). There's another unit of origami boxes,
new books, woven ribbon birds & polyhedra & German Star
variations. A couple of stacks of archive boxes of origami.
A four-drawer cabinet of origami and scrap paper. And a couple
of boxes of newsletters and correspondence.

Recently, I gave my brother permission to dump my collections of
styrofoam peanuts, empty facial tissue boxes, empty salad dressing bottles,
aluminum cans and tin cans and glass bottles and plastic jugs that were
waiting to be recycled (really, they were).

A large part of my newspaper pile has also gone. *sigh*.
And the collection of quart cartons from milk and juice
(which were just the right size to store 3.5" disks).
And most of my stash of empty cardboard boxes.
And a large collection of Byte magazine. Oh, well.

And that only made a small dent in the house.

We're still trying to sort out what I want to keep,
and what can be yard saled, and what has to be tossed.

We're hoping to liberate enough space so my brother
can move in with me, with his stuff, from his house in
Norfolk, VA.

I knew I had a problem. What finally precipitated
the cleaning up was my little stroke last month.
Not a recommended therapy.

I wish you a lot of luck with your hoard.

Aloha,
Kenneth M. Kawamura
(packrat with dragonish tendencies)





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Sun, 24 May 1998 23:17:09 -0400
Subject: Re: The Happy Hoarder

Count me among the hoard of hoarders.

I used to store my paper in tubes, but found that it was a pain to find
what I wanted, and when I did find, it was a pain to cut since the
paper curled so badly.  I've switched to keeping it stacked, but I have
only one pile (sorted by size) so I have to keep a staging area handy
to play a two post tower of hanoi paper shuffle on.

I had the chance to take one of Yoshizawa's classes at the OUSA
convention last year, and during the Q&A session I asked how he stored
his paper, and if the curl from tube storage wouldn't influence the
final model.  He replied (through a translator) that if he didn't use
tubes he would need yet another house!  and as for the curl, wetting
the paper relaxed it enough to undo the curl.  Since I don't wet fold
all my paper I find the curl to be a big hassle.

As for justifying paper hoarding, of course one can't really justify
obsessions on a rational basis, but it is nice to have the right paper
on hand when that procrastinated project deadline looms....

-D'gou





From: Rob Moes <robert.moes@SNET.NET>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 00:28:27 -0500
Subject: Re: Tall Vases

Mark writes:

>>Now that everyone is folding *some* kind of rose, are there
>>any suggested tall vase models for holding one?
>>
>>There are a lot of cup and/or earn sized/shaped models, but I've been
>>looking for something closer in style to the classic flower vase.

My favorite vase is the traditional Chinese vase introduced to the West by
Philip Shen.  I have seen it in Paul Jackson's "Ultimate Papercraft and
Origami" and in Jon Tremaine's "Step by Step Art of Origami."  Neither book
easy to find, unfortunately!

I have created a variation of this vase which stands on the same-sized
footing and opens proportionally wider and taller than the original, for an
elegant effect--almost like looking at a round-cut faceted gemstone from
the side view.  I think this would be beautiful out of glassine paper.

Instead of a 12 by 12 grid, I use a 16 by 16 grid.  The folding sequence is
essentially the same.  You still end up with a 2 by 2 footprint at the
bottom, but the vase flares out more when you open it up...and it ends up
basically 5 squares high on each side, rather than 3.  In my variation, I
fold the 4 corners at the top of the vase into the center, creating an
octagonal top, rather than a big square top.  The opening remains small at
just 2 by 2:  perfect for just a few stems to fit inside.  I put a few
marbles inside mine, just as you might do with a conventional vase, and it
works very well.  Do give my version a try!

Rob
robert.moes@snet.net





From: mSaliers <saliers@CONCENTRIC.NET>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 08:57:04 -0700
Subject: Re: Tall Vases

> On Mon, 25 May 1998, Rob Moes indited:
>
> +My favorite vase is the traditional Chinese vase introduced to the West by
> +Philip Shen.  I have seen it in Paul Jackson's "Ultimate Papercraft and
> +Origami" and in Jon Tremaine's "Step by Step Art of Origami."  Neither book
> +easy to find, unfortunately!
>

If this is truly a "traditional" model, would someone know if there is
a site where diagrams might be available?  I don't think think
I'm likely to procure any of the suggested books by my mental
deadline (i.e., *today*).  I have "Omnibus" and most of the Convention
books, if there is a similar model in any of those.

Thanks!
Mark





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 09:59:01 -0400
Subject: Re: Tall Vases

On Mon, 25 May 1998, Rob Moes indited:

+My favorite vase is the traditional Chinese vase introduced to the West by
+Philip Shen.  I have seen it in Paul Jackson's "Ultimate Papercraft and
+Origami" and in Jon Tremaine's "Step by Step Art of Origami."  Neither book
+easy to find, unfortunately!

Hmmm, in my copy of "Step-By-Step Origami" by Paul Jackson, this model
occurs on pp 73-75.

[[  Given the number of books into which the contents of Jackson's
    "Classic Origami" have been glommed/absorbed, I wonder if the
    number of books bearing a creditted (co-)authorship by Jackson is
    finite?!?!?!
]]

+the side view.  I think this would be beautiful out of glassine paper.

Or wax paper (if you can control the crinkles), but I suspect both
might be too fragile to support much cross-stress, as from a stem
swaying in a breeze, even if you put marbles in the bottom so that it
doesn't topple...  I'd have to fold it and see how strong that paper'd
be...

+marbles inside mine, just as you might do with a conventional vase, and it
+works very well.  Do give my version a try!

Thanks!  This is another case of a model whose picture and diagrams I had
previously skipped over (yawn, boring vase model, NEXT!).  But having had my
attention returned to it:  COOL!

But then again I've discovered that as my interests and tastes change, the
models I find appealing/interesting change as well.  I would note, however,
that I have found most of the models in Jackson's Classic Origami continue to
appeal, that is a very well selected group of models.

But I've digressed again.

-D'gou





From: Judy D Pagnusat <judypag@JUNO.COM>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:22:10 -0700
Subject: Re: NEW AT ORIGAMI. . .HELP!

Tom,

Just like anything else practice, practice, practice!  Also make sure
that you understand that Origami has a written language in it's diagrams
which are usually explained at the beginning of any book. If you get
stuck go to the front of the book and see if you can figure out what the
lines where you are in a diagram mean.  Once you understand Origami
diagrams, you can follow a book even in a language you don't understand.

Hope this helps keep working at it

Judy

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





From: "Rodrigo A. Pantoja" <informat@CHILESAT.NET>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 10:47:17 -0400
Subject: Book advice

Hi:

    I was wondering what books (hopefully still in print) should I add
to my (small) collection and decided to tell you which ones I have and
ask for your advice.  I currently own - in alphabetical order of titles:

- 3D Geometric Origami - Modular Polyhedra by Rona Gurkewitz and Bennet
Arnstein
- Brilliant Origami by David Brill
- Joyful Origami Boxes by Tomoko Fuse
- Kusudama - Ball Origami by Makoto Yamaguchi
- Mathematical Origami by David Mitchel
- Mette Units by Mette Pederson
- Mythological Creatures and the Chinese Zodiac in Origami by John
Montroll
- Origami from Angelfish to Zen by Peter Engel
- Origami Insects and Their Kin by Robert Lang
- Origami Sea Life by John Montroll and Robert Lang
- Origami Zoo by Robert Lang and Stephen Weiss
- The Complete Book of Origami by Robert Lang
- Unit Origami - Multidimensional Transformations by Tomoko Fuse

    I'm very interested in modular origami, so a few recommendations on
that subject would be great, but please don't forget the "traditional"
approach which I also like a lot.  Thanks to you all.

Peace,
Rodo.-
mailto: rpantoja.santiago-de-chile@sinvest.es





From: Andrew Seto <amistad17@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 11:55:27 -0700 (
Subject: origami book recommendation

can anyone recommend a really good dollar bill origami book and one for
making flowers like roses? i appreciate any help. thanks

Andrew Seto

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Rob Moes <robert.moes@SNET.NET>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:08:17 -0500
Subject: Re: tall vases to small vases

D'gou in reply to my post:

>+My favorite vase is the traditional Chinese vase introduced to the West by
>+Philip Shen.  I have seen it in Paul Jackson's "Ultimate Papercraft and
>+Origami" and in Jon Tremaine's "Step by Step Art of Origami."  Neither book
>+easy to find, unfortunately!
>
>Hmmm, in my copy of "Step-By-Step Origami" by Paul Jackson, this model
>occurs on pp 73-75.

Ugh, so confusing!  My version of "Step-By-Step Origami" by Paul Jackson
(ISBN 0785805451) has only 48 pages!

But I consider it priceless because it features Ted Norminton's daffodil,
which just so happens to be the perfect flower to put in my version of the
Chinese vase.  Here, use paper the same size or an inch smaller for the
vase.

For my most recent effort I used six-inch unryu for the flower, six-inch
Maxfield for the stem, and five-inch patterned chiyogami for the vase.
Here, the vase opening is just barely large enough to fit the single stem.
It looks as though it can't possibly stand without support, but it does!
This is very difficult to make on such a small scale, by the way....

Can we call it ikebana, when we borrow from the Chinese?   <wink>

>>I think this would be beautiful out of glassine paper.
>
>Or wax paper (if you can control the crinkles), but I suspect both
>might be too fragile to support much cross-stress, as from a stem
>swaying in a breeze, even if you put marbles in the bottom so that it
>doesn't topple...  I'd have to fold it and see how strong that paper'd
>be...

I believe it to be stable in the way that a funnel becomes more stable with
added weight inside.

Now of course if you are planning to have the rhododendrons from ORU
Folding Diagrams #2 swaying in the breeze....    8)

>+marbles inside mine, just as you might do with a conventional vase, and it
>+works very well.  Do give my version a try!
>
>Thanks!  This is another case of a model whose picture and diagrams I had
>previously skipped over (yawn, boring vase model, NEXT!).  But having had my
>attention returned to it:  COOL!

I like "geometric" models because they are fun to tinker with and create
variations.  One of these days I will try to turn this one into a hexagonal
vase....

Rob
robert.moes@snet.net





From: "Chamberlain, Clare" <Clare.Chamberlain@HEALTH.WA.GOV.AU>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 12:59:51 +0800
Subject: folding fifths

Since I get my messages only a work, I am rather behind everyone else, but
did want to mention an easy way to fold paper into fifths, or other
complicated divisions.  The method taught at Momotani sensei's "school" was
to divide that paper into 'easy' divisions, say, sixths or eighths, then
tear off the unwanted paper!  (Is this heresy??)
Which leads to hoarding of those offcuts...great for modules!  (I was cured
of hoarding by living with two hoarders, namely my husband and daughter.
Also, my daughter tends to just grab the prettiest paper form the box and
use it, anyway.  I think she's probably got her priorities right - seize the
day (or at least the paper))
As to where to buy good origami books in Tokyo - as I often have said on
this forum, there just ain't that much interest in origami in Japan!  There
are a couple of specialist centres, but most bookshops only carry kid's
stuff - I had most luck in browsing second hand shops - I just learnt to
recognise the characters for origami - got some lovely books that way.
Finally, for those of us who have to sneak a peak at work, please don't fill
up the digest repeating stuff, or fancy files full of codes!!
Clare Chamberlain
Planning Officer
Healthcare Investment Unit
Program Purchasing
Health Department of Western Australia
189 Royal Street, EAST PERTH, WA 6004
tel: 08 9222 2194  fax: 08 9222 4072
Clare.Chamberlain@health.wa.gov.au

Clare Chamberlain
Planning Officer
Healthcare Investment Unit
Program Purchasing
Health Department of Western Australia
189 Royal Street, EAST PERTH, WA 6004
tel: 08 9222 2194  fax: 08 9222 4072
Clare.Chamberlain@health.wa.gov.au





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 13:08:48 -0400
Subject: Re: tall vases to small vases

Rob Moes in reply to my reply to his message ;-) :

+>Hmmm, in my copy of "Step-By-Step Origami" by Paul Jackson, this model
+>occurs on pp 73-75.
+
+Ugh, so confusing!  My version of "Step-By-Step Origami" by Paul Jackson
+(ISBN 0785805451) has only 48 pages!

Odd, my copy of "Step-by-Step Origami" by Paul Jackson is an oversized
hardback by SmithMark Publishers Inc, ISBN 0-8317-6265-9 but is copyright 1994
by Anness Publishing Limited.

+But I consider it priceless because it features Ted Norminton's daffodil,
+which just so happens to be the perfect flower to put in my version of the
+Chinese vase.  Here, use paper the same size or an inch smaller for the
+vase.

Odd that you have a 49 page version, since as far as I was aware, Norminton's
daffodil is only in Classic Origami (CO) and the derivatives.  Since CO has 80
pages, this is most interesting!  My copy of CO ISBN is 0-792-45346-8 printed
by Mallard Press (an Imprint of BDD Promotional Book Company, Inc.), but
copyright 1990 by Qunitet Publishing.

Most odd!

You are right, Norminton's Daffodil is a _great_ model!

+For my most recent effort I used six-inch unryu for the flower, six-inch
+Maxfield for the stem, and five-inch patterned chiyogami for the vase.
+Here, the vase opening is just barely large enough to fit the single stem.
+It looks as though it can't possibly stand without support, but it does!
+This is very difficult to make on such a small scale, by the way....

Yes, I can believe it.  I prefer to make it from a hexagon cut from 10" paper
because the model comes out life sized.  At that size some of the narrow folds
and the locks at the top of the flower are annoying as it is. ;-)

-D'gou





From: VVOrigami <VVOrigami@AOL.COM>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 14:25:19 -0400 (
Subject: Re: Modular Castles

In a message dated 98-05-24 23:52:39 we read:

> The modules [Sullivan's Bluebeards Castle] in this book have a major
>  problem - there are triangular holes all over the place and you'll need to
>  construct cleverly to incoporate or hide them in your structure.  Also,
>  there are fewer kinds of modules - Rozelle's include ramparts, drawbridges
>  etc. and is much more versatile and just looks better overall.
>

Sorry, but I had to chuckle at this. It never occurred to me that anyone
would consider the "triangular holes" a defect.  In fact I imagine Sullivan
meant them for the openings or archways in his castles. After all, you
need some way to get from room to room, to say nothing of aperatures
to pour the boiling oil out of and throw lances and shoot arrows and
other such behavior common to castle inhabitants.

Plus, if the castle units are made from paper that is white on one side
and black or brown on the other, the castles look like the "half timbered"
structures of Germany and Britain (everybody couldn't afford stone forts
after all).

As for the lack of "versatility": a score of enthusiasts have found the basic
4 or 5 modules of Sullivan's brilliantly simple and evocative units almost
endlessly inspiring of further variations. Following a typical Sullivan Castle
binge last summer, I ended up with more than half a dozen roof variations,
14 different cantilever/tower support brackets, 5 or 6 half height blocks,
plus a full range of draw bridges, viaducts, aqueducts, stairways, bell
towers,
ramparts, moats, etc., and a set of tournament pavilions (fancy tents),

And sitting on my worktable right now - from the same session - are
two complete bays of a Gothic cathedral, complete with flying buttresses
and spires; and a small castle with inner court sitting on an island
surrounded by the sea (one of Perry Bailey's Fire Lizard dragons keeps
guard on the roof...)

All these are based are on Sullivan's units and interlink in the best
modular fashion. If you need a different kind of unit, you can easily
turn an existing one into something else, or invent a suitable variation.

On the other hand, while I have Rozelle's book, and enjoy looking at his
amazing creations, I haven't been inspired to fold any for myself; it seems
somehow that he's already thought of everything, and made a complete,
finished work of art.

This reminds me of how I feel about the early sets of Lego toys,
with their limited number of types of pieces,  compared to the later and
current sets. You could build just about anything from the early sets, then
take it apart and build something wildly different. And you could find the
piece you needed by sorting through less than 20 major variations.
The later sets have so many explict, special purpose pieces that far less
is left to the imagination. And if one of those gets broken or hauled off
by the cat, you can't even finish the model the set was intended for.

IMHO,
Valerie Vann





From: RGS467 <RGS467@AOL.COM>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:02:12 -0400 (
Subject: AOL's Origamichat is Posted.

Greetings Fellow Folders:

I realize most of you cannot participate in AOL's Origamichat.  However, I
thought you might still like to read the log of the chat anyway.

The chat was quite lengthy.... lasted about 2 hrs.

I posted what I could of it here:
<A HREF="http://members.aol.com/RGS467/chatlog.html">AOLorigamichat...may20
</A>

In case the link does'nt work, here is the URL:
http://members.aol.com/RGS467/chatlog.html

When reading the log, please keep in mind that this format is new to some
people... and the nature of chat is that there sometimes is more than one
conversation happening simultaneously...  It helps to print out the log in its
entirity ...13 pages ...it's easier to follow when you "scroll" up and review
what's been previously posted.

I would appreciate any criticism or information corrections involving the chat
text to be addressed to me personally (not on the Origami L listserve)... so
that I may print an appropriate retraction and to avoid clutter on the
listserve : )

Please let me know if you think it is worth posting online.

Thanks in advance:

    Russell : \
RGS467@AOL.com

PS:  The next scheduled chat will be Thursday at the same time... 9 PM EST ...
reminders will be Emailed on Wednesday.

DARE TO FOLD!!!!!!





From: Dahlia Schwartz <dahlias@BU.EDU>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 16:16:16 -0400
Subject: Diagram Index

Hi folks.  For those of you who recall, we were all tossing about an
idea about making an easily browsable index of origami diagrams
available both on and off the web.   Julius compiled a huge list of
diagrams on the web, and I am now trying to write up an interface.

I have attached the highest level interface that I'm thinking of using &
would like critiques.  I have attached it as an html source file.  I
think  most new-ish browsers should accept it as such.  If not, please
let me know.

Specific questions:

Does this seem like a good way of organizating models?

Are there categories, subcategories I should add?

Do you want to help?  I'd like to get a group of folders who would
explore models in books & on the web & write up a one sentence
description + give the model a difficulty rating.

Anything else...

thanks...-dahlia

p.s.  please don't publish this page anywhere yet...the links go
nowhere.





From: Ritchie Low <rlow@HANNAH.PO.MY>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 17:18:45 -0800
Subject: Toy Origami

People people,

(Above line from movie, Wag the Dog :-))

I've enjoyed reading the messages on the list, now I am beginning to
like posting as well; because of the response I guess.

Anyway, I remember when I was a kid of about 12; I was taught to fold a
toy. You place the 'origami' piece on a flat surface (table top) , blow
behind the back and it sort of flaps/jumps on the table while making a
rat-tat-tat sound as well. Great for head-to-head combat with your
sibling (if you're a kid of course).

I was just wondering if there might be an improved version.

Are there any such creations out there ? There's this 'bangger' or
'whopper' also I've seen on some of the sites of people on this list.

The model I was taught:

Using a rectangular paper, fold the first 3 folds of the 'classic paper
airplane', turn over, fold like the first 2 folds. Valley fold the lower
portion. Turn over again, now the first 3 folds would have created a
square, valley fold horizontally to create a spring like lower-jaw.

Turn it over and place on table top. Blow 'on the table' near the tail.
The unit will skip/hop/jump across the table.

RL.





From: DMAWolf <DMAWolf@AOL.COM>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 21:27:23 -0400 (
Subject: Hoarding and Origami sighting

Hi All,
  On the computer page of our local paper in Phoenix Under Web Sites of the
week was
Money Origami
www.msd.si.net/~clay/money/index.html
  As far as hoarding goes another origamist and I regularly entertain the
printers at a large print shop where we go and sort through the barrels of
leftover recycle paper.  The shop is owned by a women who is an artist so she
understands our obsession and is very sympathetic.  She even cuts it after we
find it.  The printers get great joy out of seeing two "older" women wrong end
up in large barrels.  We try and limit our trips to once a month or we will
really need new houses.  We use it in school programs and are glad of the
supply.  This doesn't keep us from buying more paper it just adds to it.
Diana Wolf
"Slightly creased but still a good model"





From: Rob Moes <robert.moes@SNET.NET>
Date: Mon, 25 May 1998 23:34:45 -0500
Subject: Re: Book advice

>Hi:
>
>    I was wondering what books (hopefully still in print) should I add
>to my (small) collection and decided to tell you which ones I have and
>ask for your advice.

Rodo, you have a very good collection of what is currently available.  I
would also recommend the following:

Complete Origami by Eric Kenneway
North American Animals in Origami by John Montroll
Secrets of Origami by Robert Harbin (classic, just republished!)

It takes a long time to accumulate some of the interesting foreign language
books, out-of-print rarities, and just plain real finds!  Good luck and
keep watching this list for announcements.

Rob





From: Edith Kort <ekort@MCLS.ROCHESTER.LIB.NY.US>
Date: Tue, 26 May 1998 00:08:18 -0400
Subject: Ultimate Papercraft - Jackson

I have see Ultimate Papercraft and Origami by Jackson/A'Court readily
available at several Borders.  It has a bright red cover with horizontal
yellow stripes.  It is a 'sale' book and sells for around/under $15.

I have also seen the vase in another sale book at Borders.

--
  E M Kort
  upstate NY
