




From: Karen Reeds <reeds@OPENIX.COM>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 12:35:24 -0100
Subject: Re: OftC

>>On Mon, 11 May 1998, Chr1sM wrote:
>>> If there aren't we should convince the publishers to re print it,
>>> because they would make boatloads of money if they did so, seeing as so
>>> many ppls want it.
>>
>>"boatloads of money"? Any publisher who wants to reprint OFTC should
>>probably be happy if he can get his expenses back. Sorry, but it is a sad
>>fact that the market for origami books is very limited, even more so for
>>books with above-average models or "impractical" models.
>
>Quite true.  Here's another thought:  What about seeing if an academic
>publisher could be convinced to obtain the rights and publish it.  Such
>houses look at a much more limited run than popular presses, I believe.
>The downside is that academic books tend to be a bit on the pricy side,
>relative to their popular counterparts, but are more likely to be
>interested in a small run such as would be practical for OftC, or other
>highly specialized books...
>
>Kevin
>
>Kevin Kinney
>kkinney@carolinas.org

Speaking as a former university press editor--the odds of getting origami
books reprinted by an academic press are pretty slim. For university
presses, the big obstacle is the faculty editorial board which will not
regard origami books as sufficiently scholarly to deserve the imprint, not
to mention time and investment, of the press. (I suppose a math editor
could make a case for a series of math origami books.) For academic
publishers outside universities, the price vs print run issue will be a
killer. For both, using color--even just on the cover--is always hard to
justify in the budget. And then there's the distribution question.

Even if Origami USA had a publishing division, these problems would arise

Believe me, I tried!  The closest I got was insisting that an Omega Star
made out of maps (by me) was the perfect image for the cover of Geography's
Inner Worlds.Just getting the model creator credited in the design credits
was a hassle.

Karen
reeds@openix.com





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 13:21:51 -0700
Subject: Re: Bad renditions of models
Importance: Normal

<This put me into a mild panic. I periodically donate models to auctions,
<where they "sell" well ($20 for a pin, $50 for eight notecards). Rarely,
<I am commissioned to make something not designed by me. Do all designers
<expect to be asked before their models are used for profit, or for
<exhibition, or for charity purposes?  Is crediting them for the design
<enough? It doesn't seem practical to get permission from Fuse or
<Yoshizawa, for example.

What is legal, what is ethical, and what is normally done are three different
things. Legally, you can do what you want. If the model is published, then the
design is in the public domain and you are free to make and use it as you like
(you cannot copy the DIAGRAMS without breaking copyright, though). Ethically,
permission should be obtained before using a model for non-personal purposes.
OrigamiUSA has a set of usage rules that cover the situations in detail. What is
actually done is...anything goes. In my view, designers typically get the short
end of the stick: people demand diagrams and designs, but are unwilling to
support them in their endeavours.

Michael LaFosse tells the story of how one man kept pestering him to diagram a
particular model because he wanted it. Michael only got him to stop by telling
the man that he would work for the man as a graphic artist to produce a set of
diagrams that the man would have full rights to. The catch? A rate of $75/hour
to do the diagrams.

<And isn't a well-folded rendition a more complete theft than a poorly
<folded one? ;-)

An interesting argument. 8) A better analogy would be forgery. And forgery is
forgery whether you make professional quality printing plates or whether you use
crayons on newspaper. Just because it's badly done doesn't change the fact that
forgery had been committed.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Origami Artist and Multimedia Producer
t:604.730.0306 x 105   f: 604.732.7331   e: josephwu@ultranet.ca





From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:37:53 -0400
Subject: NOR: Steve Woodmansee's msg format

Can someone who is using Eurdora Pro for email
please, please, please explain to Steve Woodmansee how
to send email to the list in --plain ASCII TEXT-- ??!

I get his messages in two or more pieces, 2 of these
are blank stating that the rest is a file attachment,
then the real message (if it comes through intact at all)
is in the form of an email file attachment that my email
program(s) don't know what to do with, so they store it under
some generic name that I have to go track down, decode
manually and then even if I manage to extract the text,
it can't be stored with the rest of the origami-L stuff..

Apparently other people are having similar problems with
such message formats, as well as messages sent in
HTML (WWWeb markup language).

Valerie Vann





From: "James B. Raasch" <jbraas01@STARBASE.SPD.LOUISVILLE.EDU>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 14:43:22 -0400
Subject: Re: New Books

<snip>
> ... but also to expect diagrams for any finished model they see.    (1)
>
> The fact is that most diagrams are published at a loss.             (2)
</snip>

I do not think that (1) is greed so much as it is a desire to fold
high-quality models.  Given the chance, I, and I think many others on this
list, would purchase books of the diagrams that are available on people's web
sites, but because of (2), those books will never exist.  The internet makes
available a forum for quick and easy publication that depends on giving, as
opposed to money making, but because the only incentive is fame, a little
prodding on the part of those who want the material is occasionally in order.
Unfortunately, to many on the internet, tact is a four-letter word, and polite
queries are quickly replaced by incessant pestering.

One example of this is Jeremy Schaffer (of BARF fame).  If you've looked
closely on his web site, he has a book that is entirely ready for publication,
and looking at the model list, I would buy it the first chance I had.
Unfortunately, I am not given that chance (the book pages haven't been updated
in a long while, I'm assuming that this is a bad sign for our hero), so I must
beg, borrow, and steal (well, maybe not that last one, and I try to avoid the
second one) to get the high quality models that the people are generating.

I'll get off of my box now.
J.B. Raasch





From: Jane Rosemarin <jfrmpls@SPACESTAR.NET>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:03:23 +0100
Subject: Re: Bad renditions of models

Joseph Wu wrote:

>This person had been selling bad renditions of one of my models.
>Indeed, they were only barely
>recognizable as being one of my designs. He gave
>me one of them at a convention
>as a way of making up for not having asked me in the first place.

This put me into a mild panic. I periodically donate models to auctions,
where they "sell" well ($20 for a pin, $50 for eight notecards). Rarely,
I am commissioned to make something not designed by me. Do all designers
expect to be asked before their models are used for profit, or for
exhibition, or for charity purposes?  Is crediting them for the design
enough? It doesn't seem practical to get permission from Fuse or
Yoshizawa, for example.

And isn't a well-folded rendition a more complete theft than a poorly
folded one? ;-)

-Jane





From: Thomas C Hull <tch@ABYSS.MERRIMACK.EDU>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:22:22 -0400
Subject: imagiro - an APA

Hello people!

This is an advertisement for new members for an amateur
press alliance (APA) called IMAGIRO.  The subject of
this zine is, of course, origami.  The way it works is
this: there are 20 members, and every two months all members
must write a minimum of 2 pages of origami related
material - diagrams, events, book reviews, philosophical
rantings, whatever.  You then make 25 copies of your pages
and send them to the editor (currently me). The editor
then collates them and ships them back out to the members.
Because of the cost of shipping, it costs $20 a year.

Imagiro has been in existence for 4 1/2 years.
I am advertizing this here because right now imagiro has
2 vacancies.

Becoming part of something like imagiro is not for everyone.
A typical issue has more chit-chat and events writing than
origami diagrams.  But it's a "magazine" that you are a part of.
Personally, the deadline every two months forces me to be
more productive.  I've gotten lots of my models diagramed
because of imagiro deadlines!

If you are interested in possibly joining imagiro, look at
a more detailed description at the web page
http://chasm.merrimack.edu/~thull/imagiro/imagiro.html

And then email me personally.  Since our membership is limited
to 20 people, we may have to be selective.

We now return to our regularly scheduled copyright debate...

--- Tom "math geek for hire" Hull
    thull@merrimack.edu





From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@AHAND.UNICAMP.BR>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 15:58:47 -0300
Subject: Re: NO: Contacting people (Robert Lang, in this case)

>>From owner-origami@MITVMA.MIT.EDU Wed May 13 14:50 EST 1998
>>From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
>>Subject:      NO: Contacting people (Robert Lang, in this case)
>>
>>problem with bombarding someone with email, and also with freely giving out
>>contact information for someone in a mass forum. To me it smacks of writing
>>someone's phone number upon a washroom stall with a message, "for a good time,
>>call..." Besides, the contact info is already quite easily accessible. If
>>someone wants it, they can find it. No need to broadcast it, right?

Agreed, of course---we are all responsible for keeping privacy and
politeness while sharing useful information. Perhaps I should have
learnt with J.J.Casalonga and be more explicit when I write in jest.
But, Joseph, I got Robert's address from a post from him to the list,
so it was already broadcast in a way (ok, ok, I understood...)

I forgot to point in my "Seriously speaking" section that an author has
obviously the right to consider his/her work art in a stricter sense, not
to be reproduced, just admired. We appreciate a unique opus, undiluted by
reproductions or reinterpretations. See discussions about work by Michael
LaFosse and Eric Joisel. Please mind you, I am NOT suggesting here
that this is the case with either Michael and Eric, much less Robert.

        Sincerely,
                Carlos
        furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti

P.S. Talking about art, I wonder how does an author feel when an
inaccurate or badly folded model is widely publicized
as *his/her* creation, especially to a public which mostly
does not understand that in origami every specimen is a particular
*interpretation* of a model, subject to the folder's skill and
personality (or lack of).





From: Doug Philips <dwp@TRANSARC.COM>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:05:55 -0400
Subject: Re: Viva! Origami (was Re: book review?)

Carlos indited:

> Readers should be aware that diagrams in V!O are somewhat "unfinished"
> compared to, say, Montroll's or Lang's. The book has three demons:
> - winged, no fingers
> - fingered, wingless, no tail
> - with fingers, tail, wings and all
> The reader is expected to learn along the book models and fill in the gaps.
...
> Maekawa-san and Kasahara-san seem to urge the reader to study crease
> patterns and learn how to transform, say, a wingless into a winged demon.

Very good points.  One more to add, which applies to all origami books, not
just V!O... If you are looking for diagrams for "finished" models, spare
yourself a lot of aggravation and see if the final diagram of the model(s)
you're interested in match the photos of the model(s) which got your
attention.  I was "burned" many times by this.  I'm not saying that it is right
or wrong for publishers/creators to do, but I wish it were clearer "up front"
either way. 1/2 ;-)

-D'gou

--
end
<a href="http://www.pgh.net/~dwp">Doug's Fun Page</a>





From: Sebastian Marius Kirsch <skirsch@T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:09:40 +0200
Subject: Re: OftC

On Wed, 13 May 1998, DGS - Kevin Kinney PhD wrote:
> The downside is that academic books tend to be a bit on the pricy side,
> relative to their popular counterparts,

They can hardly be more pricey than some other Japanese books I've seen,
like some Yoshizawa books for over 100DM, or the Origami Gallery House
books that sell for over 70DM.

Yours, Sebastian                                       skirsch@t-online.de
                        /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





From: Chr1sM <Chr1sM@AOL.COM>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 17:39:51 -0400 (
Subject: Re: OftC

In a message dated 98-05-13 13:42:09 EDT, Karen wrote:
(snipsnip)
  Speaking as a former university press editor--the odds of getting origami
 books reprinted by an academic press are pretty slim. For university
 presses, the big obstacle is the faculty editorial board which will not
 regard origami books as sufficiently scholarly to deserve the imprint, not
 to mention time and investment, of the press. (I suppose a math editor
 could make a case for a series of math origami books.) For academic
 publishers outside universities, the price vs print run issue will be a
 killer. For both, using color--even just on the cover--is always hard to
 justify in the budget. And then there's the distribution question.
 was a hassle.
SNipSNIP
 Karen
 reeds@openix.com >>

   But as I recall, and I don't know because i have to go to the library to
find out, most of the book is in a red and black ink.. Couldn't this be
converted to grayscale?  Most people are looking for the diagrams, not the
color, and on a classic(as I see it) book like this, people wouldn't really
mind if it is in full mind-blowing color like books today, or black and white,
which COULD add a nostalgiac look to the book.

Always giving suggestions
Chris Miller
Chr1sm@aol.com
Student - Brebeuf Jesuit Prep School





From: Ariel <ariel@DATAPHONE.SE>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:05:52 +0200
Subject: Re: Commitee for urging Mr Robert Lang......

-----Original Message-----
Date: Wednesday, May 13, 1998 6:41 PM

>I mentioned a "committee urging Robert Lang to publish his Allosaur
skeleton"
>as a joke, but several members looked interested.

I would also like to start an action group titled CFURLTPHM ( " Commitee for
urging Robert Lang to publish his moose" )

any supporters ?

We might even a choir of hooligans singing "one, two, three, four, we don't
want to wait (the moose) no more !!!"





From: Nick Robinson <nick@CHEESYPEAS.DEMON.CO.UK>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:22:49 +0100
Subject: Re: Competition: find a logotype for Origami Sweden

Ariel <ariel@DATAPHONE.SE> sez

>association needs a logotype for itself and its magazine.

Let me think about it - I'm sure we can find a "foldable" logo
somewhere! Is there a deadline?

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk - now with RealAudio clips!





From: Peter Niggemann <peter.niggemann@BIGFOOT.COM>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:33:12 -0400
Subject: Re: Origami copyright (was Re: New Books)

On Tue, 12 May 1998 23:03:55 -0500 Perry Bailey said;

<Lots of smart stuff snipped because I agree with it>

> ... Didn't you =
>ever wonder why the books name is printed at the top of each page?

Well I am looking but do not see any reference to the book on the top
of the page. Textbooks however usually use these.

> Is =
>there any one on this server who has never bought a book because
someone =
>gave them a photocopy of a model from the book?

I have bought over 30 origami books and have never photocopied from any
origami drawings. A couple finished models in various stages is all you
need to save if you do not have the book.

>Moderation in all =
>things, yes copyright has been infringed, but did it cause the
publisher =
>to make a new sale?  one he might not have gotten other wise?

That is simply a rationalization. Recording bootleggers and Warez
traders make the same argument. It is false. Even if the original
copyright holder doesn't make a dime off of a sold or unsold book your
photocopying the material could be in violation of that copyright.

>  No I am =
>not saying two wrongs make a right, I am saying, let he who is without
>photocopied Diagrams, start the next flame war on this topic.
>

No need to flame or chastise anyone for this. As far as I am concerned
the people involved in origami are much more honest about copyright and
attribution of prior works than is displayed in most areas of life and
art. It speaks volumes to the high ethical standards of the people
involved.

But let's try not to hide behind rationalizations. If you have
photocopied someone elses copyrighted material without the permission
of the copyright holder you are most likely in violation of that
copyright.

Peter Niggemann
Ashland, MA





From: "Sonia Wu (NC)" <swu@VIRTU.SAR.USF.EDU>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 18:40:27 -0400
Subject: Re: Magic Star Encounter

Recently we had a visitor to our college who was scheduled to meet with
one of our students.  For whatever reason, the student didn't appear
(probably a victim to finals or term paper burnout).  I'd already
spoken with our visitor once, during which we exhausted pretty much every
conceivable topic.  Then she noticed some of the models in my office and
said, "Oh, you do origami?  I used to do that."  Her first book was one of
the Harbin books (the one with the yellow cover showing grey hands folding
a blue crane).  That was one of my first books!  I was giving out
magic stars in end-of-term "CARE packages" to our student
helpers (the stars were diagrammed in one of Gay Merrill Gross's books,
I think were designed by Neale). So I trotted one out and she said, "You
have to show me how to make them!"

Another visitor was in the lobby and was interested as well (and still my
errant student helper was nowhere in sight) so we sat and folded in the
lobby. She made a magic star very quickly and was very pleased with the
result (the other person had more trouble, but made two of the eight units
and promised to try the other six at home).

We were even using some tiny sheets of paper that I'd bought in NYC
Chinatown last year, paper for which I could find no other very good use.
Since it's kind of stiff, it's hard to manipulate on such a small
scale--the point apparently was to fold 1000 cranes out of the eensy
little squares; I think maybe this was sponsored by the Institute for the
Advancement of Eyestrain.

Sonia Wu
(Florida)





From: Andrew Daw <andrewd@REDAC.CO.UK>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 19:05:12 +0100 (
Subject: Re: NO: Contacting people (Robert Lang, in this case)
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

I agree with Joseph on this. The one sure way to put someone off
doing something is to keep bombarding them with requests to do it :(

If Rob. Lang wants to publish his diagrams he will do so in his own good time.

I am sure he is well aware that we are eagerly awaiting whatever diagrams
he cares to publish (of his super models) :)
--
"Then suddenly out of the gloom came a sharp hiss.
'What has it got in its pocketses?'" -Gollum





From: Jorma Oksanen <tenu@SCI.FI>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 19:12:12 +0200
Subject: Re: The paper I've been waiting for! (Almost)

Kevin Kinney wrote:

> Now I've got to decide what to do with my precious 5 sheets...

Jun Maekawa's "Extraterrestial Being" from OftC...

If I recollect correctly, Japan forbade importing Finnish reindeer
meat after Tshernobyl accident, so reindeers would do also :)

(The above isn't intended as criticism against either Russian
technology, Japanese import policies or quality of Finnish
reindeer meat.)

--
Jorma "glowing in the dark" Oksanen   tenu@sci.fi





From: Jane Rosemarin <jfrmpls@SPACESTAR.NET>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 19:22:20 +0100
Subject: Re: Bad renditions of models

Joseph Wu commented on designers' rights:

>OrigamiUSA has a set of usage rules that cover the situations in detail.

Thanks to Joseph for the information. For anyone who is interested, these
are printed in the back of the Annual Collections, but don't seem to be
available at the OUSA website.

OUSA's 1997 guidelines are a bit more lenient than Joseph's. They
recommend that donated or exhibited models be attributed to the creator,
but they do not suggest getting the creator's permission. However, when
models are sold, written permission should be obtained.

Interestingly, in the older Annual Collections the rules seem more
stringent. They say, "We believe strongly that complete control over the
use of every model belongs to its creator, and that complete control over
the use of every set of diagrams belongs to diagrammer. . . ."

> Michael only got him to stop by telling
>the man that he would work for the man as a graphic artist
>to produce a set of diagrams that the man would have full rights to. The catch
> A rate of $75/hour to do the diagrams.

I guess Michael LaFosse did this for its shock value, but it seems fair.
That's a pretty typical freelance rate.

-Jane, walking the line, or is it folding along the line





From: Jane Rosemarin <jfrmpls@SPACESTAR.NET>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 19:32:17 +0100
Subject: Re: addendum

My eye slipped. Both quotations appear in the same Annual Collections.
But the quotation of the artist having  complete control does seem more
limiting than the idea of simply giving credit.

-Jane





From: Doris.L@T-ONLINE.DE
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 19:55:00 +0100
Subject: Paper in Bonn

Hi Helena,
You are looking for paper in Bonn?
A good paper selection has Kaufhof, a department store.
Or you go to Carthaus, a stationary near by.
Or you go to "Paper & More" near the university.
Or you go to "Paperland" in Bonn-Duisdorf
Or you buy in an  outlet (Paper & More has an outlet) called PaperArt in
Meckenheim, about 10 km away from Bonn. Opening hours Wednesday, Thursday and
Friday from 2-6 pm.

If you want to know more or if you have others question, don't hesitate to write
me privately.

Origamically
Doris





From: Vulcano <vulcano@BR.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 21:18:10 -0300
Subject: Re: OftC

Hello, Tricia,

The day I gave you this information (May 11, 1998) I had just finished to
visit Sasuga's home-page and they were offering this book (Origami for the
Connaisseur) and Origami Omnibus too on the catalogue.
The prices were $ 18.00 for the first one and $ 22.00 for the second. I was
so surprised that I ordered both by e-mail. The message was returned by the
server. Today I sent them a fax asking for the two books.

Now I checked their home-page again and the two books are "out of print".

So, sorry for this mistaken information.

Regards,
Lilian Sant'Anna

>X-From_: owner-origami@MITVMA.MIT.EDU  Wed May 13 00:53:43 1998
>Return-Path: <owner-origami@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>References: <1.5.4.16.19980512223309.382f2f80@pop-gw.homeshopping.com.br>
>Date:         Tue, 12 May 1998 23:51:45 -0400
>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>Sender: Origami Mailing List <Origami@MIT.Edu>
>From: Tricia Tait <tait@EARTHLINK.NET>
>Subject:      Re: OftC
>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>
>Hello-
>
>Is it another book you are thinking of? I called Sasuga and was told that
OftC was
>out of
>print. I wish it weren't so!
>
>Regards,
>Tricia Tait
>
>Vulcano wrote:
>
>> >Date: Mon, 11 May 1998 23:26:59
>> >To: <origami@mitvma.mit.edu>
>> >From: Vulcano <vulcano@br.homeshopping.com.br>
>> >Subject: OftC
>> >
>> >
>> >Hi,
>> >
>> >Sasuga Japanese Bookstore is offering this book on its online catalogue.
>> The price is $ 18.00. The new home-page address is www.sasugabooks.com. They
>> can look for books in Japan if they don't have them in stock. I use to buy a
>> lot from them and I never had any problem.
>> >
>> >I live in Brazil and here Origami Books are very hard to be found.
>> >
>> >Lilian Sant'Anna
>> >vulcano@br.homeshopping.com.br
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >>X-From_: owner-origami@MITVMA.MIT.EDU  Mon May 11 20:18:06 1998
>> >>Return-Path: <owner-origami@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>> >>Date:         Mon, 11 May 1998 19:06:58 EDT
>> >>Reply-To: Origami List <ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU>
>> >>Sender: Origami Mailing List <Origami@MIT.Edu>
>> >>From: Chr1sM <Chr1sM@AOL.COM>
>> >>Subject:      OftC
>> >>To: ORIGAMI@MITVMA.MIT.EDU
>> >>
>> >>Hello, I'm sure this has been asked before, but I must ask again.
>> >>Are there any plans to re release OftC?  If there aren't we should convince
>> >>the publishers to re print it, because they would make boatloads of
money if
>> >>they did so, seeing as so many ppls want it.
>> >>
>> >>Chris Miller
>> >>chr1sm@aol.com
>> >>Formerly chris@ori.net but I changed it.





From: Vulcano <vulcano@BR.HOMESHOPPING.COM.BR>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 21:18:33 -0300
Subject: Re: OftC

Alo, Carlos

I agree that we have some bookstores were we can find origami books, but
after some time they begin to be always the same. So if we want something
new we have to import or to buy when travelling.

I think I have almost 70 books and magazines about origami, so as you live
in Brazil and would like to share some copies, please e-mail me.

Lilian Sant'Anna
vulcano@br.homeshopping.com.br

At 10:21 13/05/98 -0300, you wrote:
>>>From: Tricia Tait <tait@EARTHLINK.NET>
>>>Is it another book you are thinking of? I called Sasuga and was told that
OftC was
>>>out of
>>>print. I wish it weren't so!
>
>Yes, I also checked and did not find it in the catalog. I was looking
>for a good gift. Wish Japan Publications got back in time!
>
>>>> >From: Vulcano <vulcano@br.homeshopping.com.br>
>...
>>>> >I live in Brazil and here Origami Books are very hard to be found.
>
>Well, it depends whether you know where to look in Brazil. I purchased
>both OftC and O.Omnibus (another treasured, o-o-p book) in the same
>bookstore eons ago. Of course not every shop here sells origami books
>(or know what they are...) but on average it is as easy finding a Montroll's
>as a Stephen Jay Gould's (and probably easier than J.R.R. Tolkien). I
>even got a Sembazuru Orikata (fac-simile edition, of course) :)
>
>        Sincerely,
>                Carlos
>        furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





From: Mark Gilchrist <mark@HOBBITON.FORCE9.NET>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:10:16 +0100
Subject: Re: Computer software for generating diagrams

>>Does anyone know of a software package (shareware if
>>it exists) that will enable me to generate folding diagrams?

What about a pen and paper? :)

Otherwise scan it (or find a friend o do so) and use Color It!  <---- Mac
Classic!

--
Mark

One standard to rule them all, one standard to find them,
One standard to bring them all, and in darkness bind them.  In the land
of Microsoft, where Shadows lie.





From: Barbra0336 <Barbra0336@AOL.COM>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:17:33 -0400 (
Subject: Re: Use of foil in a bistro.

In a message dated 5/12/98 7:43:33 PM, you wrote:

<<I am trying to find several creative ways in folding aluminum
foil so the customers can take their undevoured portions of dinner home.>>

One of our local restaurants folds the food into whales and swans.  You might
try a cowboy hat for the beef.  Have fun.   Barbara





From: Rjlang <Rjlang@AOL.COM>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 22:25:02 -0400 (
Subject: Re: Allosaurus, books, & stuff

Carlos Alberto Furuti wrote:

> I don't remember any recent post from [Robert Lang].
> Maybe busy on a new book??? HEY ROBERT, ARE YOU HEARING?
> ARE YOU READY TO BE BOMBED BY REQUESTS? ...If Robert is
> not reading in the list I believe his email is [...]
> so someone could ask him for news.

I can hear just fine, thanks, and I don't need to be bombed by requests, as
the daily barrage of origami-L postings is already quite  a strain on my daily
reading ability. But since you asked about Mr. Allosaurus ("Al" to his
friends): I have not yet diagrammed him. I probably won't start until I work
out some flaws in the design, which may take a while. At any rate, it will be
a difficult model to diagram and very difficult to fold (as opposed to, say,
those in Origami Insects, which are merely mildly challenging). My display
model has a few small bloodstains from where I split a finger while folding
it.

As far as writing any new books, I'm still in that nebulous stage of pushing
around a bunch of unconnected ideas, designs, and diagrams until a clear
vision for a book materializes. Once one does, it takes 1-2 years of hard work
to put the book together and another 6-9 months till publication. Usually, I
have the next one in the pipeline while the last one is in production; this
time, not. So it will probably be a couple years till a next book hits the
streets. Of course, I will continue to send diagrams to the usual outlets --
OUSAcon, BOScon, etc. -- in the interim.

Might as well comment on a few other points folks have made in today's
postings:

-- diagramming my Moose: This is on the back burner till I decide to write a
book that requires a Moose.

-- someone else folding and displaying your design & doing a bad job of it:
it's a bummer. It's even worse if they put a photo of a sloppily-folded
version in a book along with error-ridden diagrams.

-- posting email addresses on the list: I don't mind Carlos posting mine since
I'm already on the list and include my address every time I post.

Robert J. Lang
rjlang@aol.com





From: "Dr. Stephen O'Hanlon" <fishgoth@DIAL.PIPEX.COM>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:10:21 +0100
Subject: Re: Computer software for generating diagrams

> >>Does anyone know of a software package (shareware if
> >>it exists) that will enable me to generate folding diagrams?
>
> What about a pen and paper? :)

S'what I use most of the time! Having said that, scans can take up a fair
bit of memory, or one can lose detail...
>
> Otherwise scan it (or find a friend o do so) and use Color It!  <---- Mac
> Classic!

Mac? Never heard of it. Viva Paint shop pro!





From: Paul & Jan Fodor <origami@ALOHA.NET>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 21:59:09 -1000
Subject: selling models

Well, I thought you may be interested in the "exploiter's" point of
view.  I've been making and selling origami jewelry for about 10 years
now.  I started first just to make money for my classroom and not its my
retirement income.
         When I first started doing origami I never thought there might be a
problem with copyrighted models that I was selling.  I guess I felt like
"this is a origami recipe book and if people enjoy my origami 'cookies'
well enough to buy them, great".  I didn't feel like I was cheating the
author out of royalties by creating a model that I make money from.  I
even use to sign my "special" models as the "artist".  Now, I don't sign
them anymore because I feel as if my making it is incidental.  Since
reading all this discussion on the net, I've thanked the authors who
contribute the models, sent them what I make, and have a list of
creators, their books and the model information available at my booth.
I also show anyone who asks, how to make these models and direct them to
stores that may have the books on sale.   I have no idea if I've made
these creators cringe at my confession or not.  I assumed that
publishing a "how to" book means "feel free to make my models".  If the
author made a statement about his/her objection to people making money
from making and selling models, I think I would now honor that request.
However, I never got that impression from origami authors before.  I
work hard at making this living and am very thankful to author/creator
who provided me with the models but if I had to give "royalties" to the
author/creator I think I would just stop using their models.  So far, I
haven't  recognized any author on the internet whose model I used.  If
you authors out there would like to check, my url is listed and you may
want to contact me if you have objections. If I missed acknowledging
anyone, please forgive me, I would be glad to so if you contact me.
        My apologies to any author I may have offended.  I realize now after
all this exposure to the origami world how far reaching my actions are.
The internet has truly expanded my horizons. I pray I have not shamed or
embarassed any creator with the models I've made.  I think the sales I
have made indicate the success of your models; I have received many
compliments but maybe they came from people who don't know any better.
                Sincerely, Jan Fodor





From: "Dr. Stephen O'Hanlon" <fishgoth@DIAL.PIPEX.COM>
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 23:15:25 +0100
Subject: Origami exhibition

For anyone in the UK...

On June the 14th I have been asked to contribute a series of Origami
displays for a Japanese art exhibition in Cambridge. It will be held in the
University Japanese centre, in between New Hall and Fitzwilliam college. If
anyone is interested, please e mail me, and I will give times and suggest
parking, and let the organisers know about numbers. If not, I'll try and
take some photo's and maybe post them on this list.

Laters,

Dr S.G. O'Hanlon





From: Ariel <ariel@DATAPHONE.SE>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 10:20:58 +0200
Subject: Re: Competition: find a logotype for Origami Sweden

No deadlines so far.....but of course the association would like to have
something within the next months

>>association needs a logotype for itself and its magazine.
>
>Let me think about it - I'm sure we can find a "foldable" logo
>somewhere! Is there a deadline?
>
>all the best,
>
>Nick Robinson





From: Steve Woodmansee <stevew@EMPNET.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:07:34 -0700
Subject: Re: NOR: Steve Woodmansee's msg format

In the almost two years I've been on the web and involved in this forum,
Valerie is the first one to ever complain about the transmittal format of
my e-mail.

From the exasperated tone of her broadcast e-mail I assume these
frustrations have been building.  And apparently since she wants "someone"
to explain to me she is unable to do so herself.  So yes, perhaps someone
could tell me how to desist from my most egregious sins so that all the
offended may return to normal blood pressure levels.

For these and all my other misdeeds I humbly beg forgiveness.

On 02:37 PM 5/13/98 -0400, Valerie Vann wrote:
>Can someone who is using Eurdora Pro for email
>please, please, please explain to Steve Woodmansee how
>to send email to the list in --plain ASCII TEXT-- ??!
>
>I get his messages in two or more pieces, 2 of these
>are blank stating that the rest is a file attachment,
>then the real message (if it comes through intact at all)
>is in the form of an email file attachment that my email
>program(s) don't know what to do with, so they store it under
>some generic name that I have to go track down, decode
>manually and then even if I manage to extract the text,
>it can't be stored with the rest of the origami-L stuff..
>
>Apparently other people are having similar problems with
>such message formats, as well as messages sent in
>HTML (WWWeb markup language).
>
>Valerie Vann
>

Steve Woodmansee
stevew@empnet.com





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 11:08:01 -0700
Subject: NO: Posting images to this list (was RE: Origami exhibition)
Importance: Normal

<On June the 14th I have been asked to contribute a series of Origami
<displays for a Japanese art exhibition in Cambridge. It will be held in the
<University Japanese centre, in between New Hall and Fitzwilliam college. If
<anyone is interested, please e mail me, and I will give times and suggest
<parking, and let the organisers know about numbers. If not, I'll try and
<take some photo's and maybe post them on this list.

Nix, verboten, cease & desist! Photos would be welcome by many people, but
please do NOT post them to this list. This is not the forum for distribution of
large files. Put them on a website or FTP server and make an announcement here.
Thanks.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, List Owner of ORIGAMI@MIT.EDU   t: 604.730.0306 x 105
e: origami-request@mitvma.mit.edu          f: 604.732.7331





From: Barbra0336 <Barbra0336@AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 13:48:26 -0400 (
Subject: Re: Competition: find a logotype for Origami Sweden

In a message dated 5/13/98 7:09:01 AM, you wrote:

<<The
association needs a logotype for itself and its magazine.>>

What about a Dalarna horse?  Good luck.
Barbara Ortiz





From: =?iso-8859-1?B?VEhPUktJTEQgU9hOREVSR8VSRA==?= <thokiyenn@GET2NET.DK>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 14:46:50 +0200
Subject: Re: Competition: find a logotype for Origami Sweden

Dear Ariel

A primitive DALAR HORSE folded
from half a square, and one folded
from half a Long John Silver strip.
is on its way by snail mail.

As an aside I thought the CBP - Crossed Box Pleat
with its five united squares could be used
to symbolize the working together of the Origami people
in the five Scandinavian countries.
sample by snail.

Some people think that copyright means
that they have a right to copy the thing.

You can copyright these models for Origami Sweden.

Kalmon.
secret aeirial aid to

thokiyenn@get2net.dk
have a look at
http://www.bornholmershoppen.dk/videorig.html





From: "Dr. Stephen O'Hanlon" <fishgoth@DIAL.PIPEX.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:35:34 +0100
Subject: Re: Allosaurus, books, & stuff

> Robert J. Lang
> rjlang@aol.com

Just a quick note to say thanks for the books, Robert. Origami sea life is
currently winging from Amazon books to the UK, the rest I have already
bought (as challenging in the UK as folding some of those insects). It was
a pleasure folding all of those models. I look forward to any further
publications, whether they have Allosaurs in them or not.

Dr S.G. O'Hanlon





From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 15:49:56 -0400
Subject: Re: NOR: Steve Woodmansee's msg format

Sure, Steve, you're not the only one whose email does
this non-ASCII text routine, but some of those *are* coming
from email programs that apparently *can't* be fixed by
the user, only by their system administrator, who won't
change because that's what the network internal mail
system uses. (At least that's the excuse put out...)

I am not, however, the first member of the list to
complain about non-text message formats; some members
also have limits to the number of messages in the
inbox, and most of these non-text formats result in
two or more "messages".

I don't use Eudora Pro myself, or I would have long since
emailed privately how to fix it. Since Eudora is, as
I understand, the latest and greatest of the "alternate"
email programs, I assumed it is capable of sending plain
ASCII text email.

But never mind; up til now I've usually deleted non-text emails
unread rather than bother getting at the contents; its a
simple solution.

Valerie





From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@AHAND.UNICAMP.BR>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 16:03:03 -0300
Subject: Re: OftC (not FULLY origami)

1) This surely is not a solution for either out-of-print treasures or
future works (please Robert, Joseph, Jeremy, and many others :) ), but
I found it interesting:

Some years ago I read "The Art of Bird Illustration" by Lambourne (not
an art course, but a beautiful history of art through the ages). What's
written below probably applied to other forms of art/bookmaking.

Most people know how color prints are created: several (usually 4, but
sometimes 8 to 12) metal plates are prepared, each bearing part of the
image and inked with a single color.  The paper is pressed against
each plate in turn, resulting in the final image.

This process was known to book illustrators in centuries 18 and 19 (with
stone instead of metal) but it was expensive and unreliable, so what
did nature artists like Gould, Lear and Audubon do?
- painted a watercolor original
- engraved a single lithography with just the black outlines
- printed several copies in paper (only black lines)
- paid a small army of assistants to hand-paint the paper copies using
  the watercolor as a model
Of course it was still very expensive producing a full copy of say,
"Birds of America", so first of all the artist had to find a minimum number
of *subscribers* who paid _in advance_ and received the paintings in
volumes (Lear was not a gifted businessman and suffered heavy losses).

It's a pity market costs and the small origami community cannot afford
limited runs of good works. Even this old-fashioned subscription
mechanism would work only for privately published books, or in
associations like OrigamiUSA, the BOS or the O.Tanteidan.

2) This leads me to another point. Several authors have prepared the
'Secret Life of Paper' CD, an invaluable resource for presenting
paperfolding to a wider audience. I know it does contain a selection of
photos of finished museum-quality models. Does anyone know of a
coffe-table _book_ focused on origami photographs (like a "Selected ORU
Exhibitions")??? Please don't tell me "no one would ever publish it
since too few would buy that"! :(

        Sincerely,
                Carlos
        furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





From: Richard Kennedy <r.a.kennedy@BHAM.AC.UK>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:41:35 +0100
Subject: Re: OftC

>
> On Wed, 13 May 1998, DGS - Kevin Kinney PhD wrote:
> > The downside is that academic books tend to be a bit on the pricy side,
> > relative to their popular counterparts,
>
> They can hardly be more pricey than some other Japanese books I've seen,
> like some Yoshizawa books for over 100DM, or the Origami Gallery House
> books that sell for over 70DM.

Have you tried looking at some catalogues? As an illustration, Springer-
Verlag list a recent book on "High-Power Ion Beams", 163 pages at 158 DM!
(61 UK pounds, 85 US dollars). Non-course texts, from academic publishers
are VERY expensive.

Richard K
(R.A.Kennedy@bham.ac.uk)





From: Jan Polish <Jan_Polish@COLPAL.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 17:42:42 -0400
Subject: OrigamiUSA Convention Forms On-Line

     The registration forms for Origami Convention '98 (June 26-29,
     NYC) are now available on our website. Please let me know
     privately if there are any problems. Thanks, Jan

     www.origami-usa.org
     jan_polish@colpal.com





From: RGS467 <RGS467@AOL.COM>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 18:29:08 -0400 (
Subject: REMINDER: Origami Test Chat Scheduled

This is just a reminder that the  Origami Talk test chat is tonight, Thursday,
May 14th at 10 pm(EST)..that's 9(CST)  The topic of conversation will be New
Origami Books and/or Supportive Materials.

Hope to have a great chat!

Russell : \





From: Sebastian Marius Kirsch <skirsch@T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 20:00:44 +0200
Subject: Re: OftC

[Sorry if this is off-topic; I intended to send this to Richard privately,
but then thought that it might be of interest to other members of the list
as well; don't all origami books suffer from the problem of publishing
them efficiently?]

On Thu, 14 May 1998, Richard Kennedy wrote:
> > They can hardly be more pricey than some other Japanese books I've seen,
> > like some Yoshizawa books for over 100DM, or the Origami Gallery House
> > books that sell for over 70DM.
> Have you tried looking at some catalogues? As an illustration, Springer-
> Verlag list a recent book on "High-Power Ion Beams", 163 pages at 158 DM!
> (61 UK pounds, 85 US dollars). Non-course texts, from academic publishers
> are VERY expensive.

Well, but I suppose that this book's audience is considerably smaller than
OFTC's. Still, book publishing is a very expensive trade, and an
affordable price can only be reached with a number of copies that goes
well into the thousands and tenths of thousands.

Electronic publishing, on the other hand, still has a long way to go, but
I think that it is _the_ future for publications with a minute
audience---it is inexpensive, already has a vast distribution network over
the internet, and is quite easy to do, now that most documents are already
typeset using an electronic typesetting system.

The problem is, of course, that of copyright---there is no awareness in
the public that an electronic book can be worth a few pounds, particularly
if it doesn't come on a CD in a nice four-color glossy box with
documentation and all bells and whistles. And it is too easy to copy it;
with a conventional book you still loose quality, colour images and the
binding, whereas with an electronic book there is no loss of quality at
all. And because not everybody has a laser printer, we need facilities
where electronic books can be converted into paper ones, ie. copy shops
which can read PDF format and such, and can print the document and bind
it.

Yours, Sebastian                                       skirsch@t-online.de
                        /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





From: John Sutter <sutterj@EARTHLINK.NET>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 21:10:48 -0700
Subject: Origami Chat Room

Greetings,
     I would have liked to participate in the chat session tonight, but I
could not register.
How far in advance was a member supposed to register?  I've never done this
before and tried to
access the chat and got Alex Barber's website, but that was all.  What I
wanted to find out from
other folders was their opinions of these new books ( new to me
anyhow):Fantastic Folds - Stoker
and Williamson, Festive Folds - Jackson and Ultimate Origami Book/Kit.  Do
they have lots of models
for intermediate and beginning folders?  Also, I was interested in
Takahama's Origami of Four Seasons.
It's very expensive.  How is it for intermediate folders?
Ria Sutter





From: Jaelle <jaelle1@SWBELL.NET>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 21:38:09 -0500
Subject: Re: REMINDER: Origami Test Chat Scheduled

Thank you for the reminder... Ummm where was this to take place?????

Jaelle

RGS467 wrote:

> This is just a reminder that the  Origami Talk test chat is tonight, Thursday,
> May 14th at 10 pm(EST)..that's 9(CST)  The topic of conversation will be New
> Origami Books and/or Supportive Materials.
>
> Hope to have a great chat!
>
> Russell : \





From: Sebastian Marius Kirsch <skirsch@T-ONLINE.DE>
Date: Thu, 14 May 1998 21:45:26 +0200
Subject: Re: NOR: Steve Woodmansee's msg format

On Thu, 14 May 1998, Steve Woodmansee wrote:
> In the almost two years I've been on the web and involved in this forum,
> Valerie is the first one to ever complain about the transmittal format of
> my e-mail.

I looked through your recent messages (this month and last month), and I
couldn't find anything suspicious among the headers. You posted two
messages in text/enriched format (17th April and 13th May); this may be
what Valerie means. But t/e-Format is nothing unusual anymore, and I also
saw a message by Ariel Aramburu in this format. (Incidentally, in Steve's
t/e messages, t/e was only used for a bold line in his footer---perhaps
you could turn that off, Steve?)

Apart from these two messages, all messages by Steve were in simple
text/plain format, with charset="us-ascii". This is about as plain as it
gets; even Valerie herself sends her mails in a more sophisticated
encoding called "quoted-printable"---which isn't needed at all because it
is only used to encode umlauts and accented letter. (This is the same
format my mail program uses when I inadvertently hit an umlaut in a
posting to the list, and for which I have been cussed out before.)

Sorry for this technical content; I wanted to assert Steve's claim that
there is nothing wrong with his messages.

Yours, Sebastian                                       skirsch@t-online.de
                        /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





From: Judy D Pagnusat <judypag@JUNO.COM>
Date: Sat, 09 May 1998 17:21:30 -0700
Subject: Re: The paper I've been waiting for! (Almost)

Kevin,

Glad you found our papers.  There were two others introduced at the same
time, Hologram & Silver Glitter, called paper but they are really mylar
sheets.  These and the glow in the dark should be folded with a bone
folder to get the best crease.  They still will not fold as well as
paper.  They are pricey but again not just paper.  The lined papers work
well for working with very young children by an adult who is origami
illiterate.

Enjoy your papers,

Judy Pagnusat, Northern California Sales Rep. Yasutomo

_____________________________________________________________________
You don't need to buy Internet access to use free Internet e-mail.
Get completely free e-mail from Juno at http://www.juno.com
Or call Juno at (800) 654-JUNO [654-5866]





From: Kimberly Crane <kcrane@KIMSCRANE.COM>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 06:41:15 -0400
Subject: Kim's Crane Special

Hello Everyone:

Just a quick note to announce Kim's Crane new Special.  Please come have
a look.  Thanks.

Happy Folding,
Kimberly
http://www.kimscrane.com





From: Jeff Kerwood <jkerwood@USAOR.NET>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 07:49:58 -0400
Subject: Re: REMINDER: Origami Test Chat Scheduled

From Russell:

> This is just a reminder that the  Origami Talk test chat is tonight,
Thursday,
> May 14th at 10 pm(EST)..that's 9(CST)  The topic of conversation will be
New
> Origami Books and/or Supportive Materials.

I wasn't able to participate this time - how did it go? I can't offer to do
it myself this time (obviously since I didn't participate) but I think it
would be a great service if anyone were to summarize the chat for this
group.

Is the text from the chat available anywhere online?

Thanks, Jeff Kerwood
jkerwood@usaor.net
===>>> (just a side question - does anyone have email software that does
not show the senders address in the header - is it duplication it to put
here too?)





From: Marcia Joy Miller <marciajmiller@HOTMAIL.COM>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 08:02:27 -0700 (
Subject: Impressions of Origami Talk

Hi!  I participated in the "Origami Talk" last night (Thursday).  I
could not stay to the end, but I found it very enjoyable.  I would like
to thank Russell(RGS467) for organizing it.  We all spoke about books,
paper, and origami in general.  I think it is a forum with
much potential and I look forward to future scheduled talks.

                                    Marcia Joy Miller

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





From: Steve Woodmansee <stevew@EMPNET.COM>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:32:14 -0700
Subject: Blatant Origami Sighting

Hi all:

This is from a novel I recently read by John Case and titled, "The Genesis
Code:"

"Lassiter liked Chicago.  The high-rises beside the lake, the glitter and
sophistication, always surprised him.  He took a taxi from O'Hare to the
Near North Side, where he checked into one of his favorite hotels, the
Nikko.  It was a crisply efficient place, elegant and very Japanese.  The
ikebana displays were as beautiful as they were simple, and there was an
excellent restaurant on the ground floor.  He took advantage of it, that
same evening, washing down his sushi with two large bottles of Kirin.  When
he returned to his room he expected to find a chocolate on his pillow -
but, of course, it was the Nikko, and what he found was an origami figure
instead.  A wolf, howling, or maybe it was a dog.  Whatever it was, it
reminded him of *Blade Runner*."

Now the questions:

1.  What is an ikebana?
2.  Anybody know of a howling wolf model?  (or dog)
3.  Anybody know if the Nikko really does this?
Origami:  "Stop Drop and Fold!"
Steve Woodmansee
stevew@empnet.com
Bend, Oregon
http://www.empnet.com/woodmansee





From: Alex Barber <barber@ADMIN.CARLBERG.COM>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:40:27 -0500
Subject: Origami Talk (was REMINDER: Origami Test Chat)

For those not on AOL or wherever the discussion was that was announced by
Russell, feel free to try out the "room" I have set up as a test at
http://www.the-village.com/origami/talk.html

You'll need a web browser that supports Java to play along. If anyone wants
to arrrange a meeting online here for origami, have at it.

Alex

--
tel 713.965.0764 fax 713.965.0135
barber@admin.carlberg.com





From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ULTRANET.CA>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 10:50:54 -0700
Subject: Re: Blatant Origami Sighting
Importance: Normal

<1.  What is an ikebana?

Japanese flower arranging.

<2.  Anybody know of a howling wolf model?  (or dog)

deg farrelly has a howling coyote model.

<3.  Anybody know if the Nikko really does this?

Don't know. Does Chicago actually have a hotel with that name? Incidentally,
Nikko (could be translated "daylight" or "sunlight") is a small town 2 hours
north of Tokyo. It was the seat of government for the Tokugawa shogunate. I
designed my tortoise there as a gift to the innkeepers at the Turtle Inn Nikko
for their excellent hospitality during my stay.





From: "Steve W. Payne" <swpayne@CAST.MSSTATE.EDU>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 11:08:40 -0500
Subject: Origami Sighting

Hey all,
I just received my June issue of Dr. Dobb's Journal(a Computer programming
journal), and the cover caught my eye.  It displays a traditional crane, a box,
paper and a diagram book.  If only they had diagrams inside as well! :)
Steve
--

--Steve W. Payne -------------------- swpayne@cast.msstate.edu --
|MSU - Center for Air Sea Technology                            |
|Bldg. 1103, Room 233                 Tel:  (601)688-3099       |
|Stennis Space Center                 Fax:  (601)688-7100       |
|MS 39529-6000                                                  |
| Faith:  When you have come to the end of all the light that   |
| you know and need to step into the darkness of the unknown,   |
| Faith is knowing that one of two things will happen:  either  |
| there will be something solid to stand on or you will be      |
| taught how to fly.                                            |
|                    -- Anonymous                               |





From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 11:42:29 -0400
Subject: NOR: Apology (was: Is this any better?)

I apologize to the Steve Woodmansee and the mail list
for the grumpy emails about non-text messages. My only
excuse is that I've had a very bad month
computer-wise. I probably need a technology-free week
sitting under a Redwood tree with a stack of origami
paper and my diagram sketch books....

Valerie Vann





From: Jane Rosemarin <jfrmpls@SPACESTAR.NET>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:16:12 +0100
Subject: Re: Origami Talk (was REMINDER: Origami Test Chat)

Alex Barber wrote:

>For those not on AOL or wherever the discussion was that was announced by
>Russell, feel free to try out the "room" I have set up as a test at
>http://www.the-village.com/origami/talk.html

Am I confused!
Were there two chats last night?

I signed on to the address Alex mentioned above, and there were eight
people there.

Was there another site, mentioned by Russell, for that specific chat at:
<A HREF="http://www.the-village.com/origami/talk.html">Origami
Talk</A> ???

Jane





From: RGS467 <RGS467@AOL.COM>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 12:36:05 -0400 (
Subject: Re: Impressions of Origami Talk

Hello Fellow Folders,

I, first, want to thank all those who participated in the
<A HREF="http://www.the-village.com/origami/talk.html">Origami Talk</A>  test
chat.  I  thoroughly enjoyed the comradery and got some good advice regarding
my next origami text purchases.   I apologize for not including a URL on my
REMINDER posting.  I will try to be more attentive in the future.

The topics of discussion varied...  from new books and materials, to personal
favorites, and even to exploring a realtime fold session online.... All the
participants shared in the true spirit of origami.  We had discussed switching
to another chat network, but decided that we would schedule another chat on
this one until we work out the bugs with a new (more compatible) network.

Thanks again, Alex Barber, for setting this up for us.  It was a UNANIMOUS
success, and we all look forward to the next one.....Hope to see more
enthusiasts present.

Let's schedule another chat at  <A HREF="http://www.the-
village.com/origami/talk.html">Origami Talk</A> .   The next chat will be
TUESDAY, May 25th, at 9PM EST...(8PM ...CST)..  (an hour earlier) The subject
will be "Netiquette"  on the listserve.  This subject will allow us to discuss
those postings that are inapropriate as well as those which ARE appropriate.
(DO's and DON"TS)  Also, we will discuss book reviews. A couple of listserve
members have expressed [to me] that the chat was held a bit too late in the
day.  Of course, we will not be able to appease everyone regarding an
appropriate time, but we will try to accomodate those who request it.

For those who missed the info on how to access and use
<A HREF="http://www.the-village.com/origami/talk.html">Origami Talk</A> ,
please refer to the previous Origami L posting regarding this procedure.
Then, if anyone has questions, I will be glad to answer them...but, please do
your homework before asking any questions which may have been previously
covered.

For those who are "technologically challenged" ( that don't have HTML
compatible browsers), I will include the full URL's at the end of the posting.
I do not feel I need to exclude my HTML tags just because some users cannot
access them....What about those who can???   At any rate, the URL will be
supplied for your convenience.

The URL for Geocitie's <A HREF="http://www.the-village.com/origami/talk.html">
Origami Talk</A>  is :
 http://www.the-village.com/origami/talk.html

Thanks, again everyone...especially Alex Barber.   I hope to see you next
week.

Sincerely,   Russell..... RGS467@AOL.com : \





From: Jane Rosemarin <jfrmpls@SPACESTAR.NET>
Date: Fri, 15 May 1998 13:28:15 +0100
Subject: Re: Blatant Origami Sighting

>3.  Anybody know if the Nikko really does this?

Do you mean the take-out restaurant or the securities firm? If there is a
Nikko Hotel in Chicago, it has an unlisted number.

Jane
