




Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:23:51 -0400 (AST)
From: "Sonia Wu (NC)" <swu@virtu.sar.usf.edu>
Subject: Re: Anteater and Lemur Models

Does anyone know of diagrams for anteaters and lemurs?

The only anteater model with which I'm familiar is the one in John
Montroll's Origami Inside Out.  It's really great, but I'd like to find
others.

Also, has anyone viewed the Yoshizawa and Fuse videos available through
Sasuga?  Are they worth buying for instructional value if one doesn't
speak Japanese?

Thanks,

Sonia Wu
(Florida)





Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:48:42 -0400 (AST)
From: Daddy-o D'gou <dwp@transarc.com>
Subject: Re: Pilot Diagrams

Joseph "More Hats than you can stick a shake at" Wu indited:
+Another happy Pilot owner, I see. DOC format is can only handle text, so
+you should be able to convert some of Nick Robinson's "Phone Folding"
+archives into DOC format for your Pilot.
+<http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/phone.html>

Indeed.  I recall reading (origami-l? or "The Paper" or ???) of someone who
had a pocket organizer with text folding "reminders" for high-double-digits
(or low-triple-digit) models.  Not complete instructions, just enough to
remind the owner how to fold the models.

+You could also look into converting images into ImageViewer format.

Whhheeeeeeeeee!

+Nope. First time the Pilot has been mentioned on origami-l, I think.

Yup.  Count me in as another happy user!

There is a drawing program for the PalmPilot that can emit PostScript, but I
haven't had the time to try it out yet.  As for viewing...
    Archives now have diagrams in, at least, these formats:
            PostScript
            Acrobat
            GIF
            JPG
    There are enough formats, resolutions, file size (each page a
separate file or all in one?) that converting and keeping track of them
is a ROYAL pain.

    However, I'm NOT recommending that we discourage having new formats
or eliminating existing ones, I think that would be counterproductive.

-D'gou





Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 18:55:10 -0400 (AST)
From: Daddy-o D'gou <dwp@transarc.com>
Subject: Re: Joseph's Eastern Dragon...

Sonia Wu asked Joseph Wu:
+Also, forgive my ignorance, but are diagrams available/published for
+the wonderful dragon on your Web page?  I think you taught it at the last
+convention, but I got closed out.

It was being taught by various folks in the after hours folding sessions, but
I too never got around to learning it.  I did manage to learn his Tortoise
though.  Maybe this year?  Its only a few months away!

I hope Joseph has diagrammed it, but I get the sense from all the other stuff,
with the Olypmic Site work, the new magazine, keeping his web site up to date,
plus the "getting paid for it real" job, I'm not holding my breath...

I'd like to be pleasantly surprised though!

-D'gou





Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:07:44 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: Yoshizawa & Fuse videos (was Re: Anteater and Lemur Models)

>Also, has anyone viewed the Yoshizawa and Fuse videos available through
>Sasuga?  Are they worth buying for instructional value if one doesn't
>speak Japanese?

Neither of these (nor the one about SANO Yaushiro, the president of NOA and
origami dog enthusiast) is instructional. This series of videos is mainly
biographical, and includes information about the philosophies of the
artists.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca





Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 19:08:26 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: Re: Olympic Origami

>Do you have the right to publish a booklet of your various Olympic-related
>models?  Perhaps you could sell it through OUSA.  If it's not something I
>could easily and ethically print, I would certainly buy a copy.

Nope. They all belong to NAOC (Nagano Olympic Committee), or perhaps to IBM
(who is doing the website). You can get the diagrams from the site and
print them if you wish.

>Also, forgive my ignorance, but are diagrams available/published for
>the wonderful dragon on your Web page?  I think you taught it at the last
>convention, but I got closed out.

Sorry, Sonia. No diagrams yet.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca





Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:10:05 -0400 (AST)
From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Modular vs multi-piece (was Re: Quintessential complex model /

I disagree. As one who does "unit origami", I use "modular"
interchangably with "unit", meaning multiple similiar pieces,
not just multiple pieces of paper, as in 2 piece animals.

For one thing, I learned to use "modular construction" when
I studied architecture, where it definitely means use of
multiple identical, similar, or parts metrically related so as
to join or interlock.

(I wouldn't consider multiple same-size squares, but folded
completely differently to qualify as modules or units.)

I have a box design that takes 3-4 sheets of paper, but I
don't consider it "modular"; Tomoko Fuse's 5 piece pentagonal
boxes would be "modular" (5 identical pieces.)

As for a T-Rex, if the spinal column takes multiple similar/identical
piecs, and the rest just multiple pieces, then maybe it is
semi-modular. :-)

Animals made of Chinese Boat People units, or the ones in
"Origami for the Connoisseur"  (multiple Sonobe units, not all
identical but variations on the same unit) would be "modular".

Valerie Vann





Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 20:16:39 -0400 (AST)
From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: charges for email

Joseph wrote:

<<(Of course, what do I care? FCC rulings don't affect me...)>>

You think not?
how many of us in the lower 48 (and the outer 2)
do you think  will be browsing DNA's new origami zine
if we have to pay by the minute for connect time?

:-)
valerie





Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:44:59 -0400 (AST)
From: Kim Best <kim.best@m.cc.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: Anteater and Lemur Models

Sonia Wu (NC) wrote:

> Does anyone know of diagrams for anteaters and lemurs?
>
> The only anteater model with which I'm familiar is the one in John
> Montroll's Origami Inside Out.  It's really great, but I'd like to find
> others.
>

I believe the anteater is in "African Animals in Origami"

The monkey in Montroll's "Chinese Zodiac", looks a lot like lemur to me.
It doesn't have the big inquisitive eyes though.  But a little creativity
should go
a long way....

--
Kim Best                            ************************************
                                    * I've come to the conclusion that *
Rocky Mountain Cancer Data System   * origami, isn't folding so much,  *
420 Chipeta Way #120                * as it is precision crumpling.    *
Salt Lake City, Utah  84108         ************************************





Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 21:49:13 -0400 (AST)
From: Pat Slider <slider@stonecutter.com>
Subject: Re: Teaching origami for teachers

One great classroom origami activity might be having a hina doll festival
(Hina matsuri) on March 3rd. (Somewhere on the web I've even seen some
class plans for doing this. Expect you can find it using any good search
engine.)

Most hina dolls aren't very difficult to fold, and students would have the
fun of celebrating yet another holiday.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Pat Slider
STONECUTTER
slider@stonecutter.com





Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:41:37 -0400 (AST)
From: orig@webtv.net (DON CONNELL)
Subject: Re:anteater

There is an intermediate Anteater in Montrol's African Animals  in
Origami on page  97.

Don Connell





Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 22:48:57 -0400 (AST)
From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: A suggestion for teachers

<<urban legend>>

you mean like pet alligators in the sewer system?
:-)

valerie





Date: Wed, 14 Jan 1998 23:11:24 -0400 (AST)
From: Brian Cox <briancox@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: year of the tiger

T,T,T

Ment to be direction? Neither worked for me, the lurking duh!

Joseph Wu wrote:
>
> >       The following is the list returned from doing a search for tiger at
> >http://www.origami-usa.org/frames1.htm
> >which is within the OrigamiUSA Webpages.
>
> Actually, Eric, the correct URL would be
> <http://www.origami-usa.org/mkinfo.htm>.
>
> >Tiger by Kunihiko Kasahara
> >Creative Origami by Kunihiko Kasahara page 83
>
> Intermediate. Requires a second piece of paper for the hind legs.
>
> >Tiger by Peter Engel
> >Folding the Universe by Peter Engel page 232
>
> High intermediate.
>
> >Tiger by Akira Yoshizawa
> >Origami Museum I: Animals by Akira Yoshizawa page 63
>
> Low intermediate. Two pieces of paper, I think.
>
> >Tiger by Isao Honda
> >World Of Origami by Isao Honda page 134
>
> Don't remember.
>
> >Tiger by John Montroll
> >Origami Inside-Out by John Montroll page 70
>
> Complex. With colour-change stripes.
>
> >Tiger) by Seiji Nishikawa
> >El Mundo Nuevo by Kunihiko Kasahara page 148
>
> Complex. Detailed face. I have a photo on my website (in the galleries
> section).
>
> >Tiger) by Kunihiko Kasahara
> >Viva Origami by Kunihiko Kasahara page 84
>
> This is an error. The model (and most of the book) is by MAEKAWA Jun. High
> intermediate (very similar to Peter Engel's tiger.
>
> >Tiger by Peter Engel
> >1988 by C.A. WILK page 60
>
> Haven't seen this one.
>
> >Tiger by John Montroll
> >Mythological Creatures And the Chinese Zodiac by John Montroll page 30
>
> High intermediate.
>
> >Tiger by Issei Yoshino
> >1996 by Myer Gotz (ed) page 35
>
> Complex. Extremely detailed face.
>
> A couple of additions:
>
> Tiger by NISHIKAWA Seiji (unpublished)
> I mention this one because this is an intermediate model that looks like a
> simple model...with the addition of colour-changed stripes.
>
> Tiger by KOMATSU Hideo
> Origami Tanteidan Newsletter volumes 44-46
> Complex. Looks like Nishikawa's model (from El Mundo Nuevo) with
> colour-changed stripes. Also on my website.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------
> Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
> t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:47:32 -0400 (AST)
From: Paul & Jan Fodor <origami@aloha.net>
Subject: Re: charges for email

Bernie Cosell wrote:
>
> On 14 Jan 98 at 16:01, Paul & Jan Fodor wrote:
>
> > thiry gail bennett wrote:
> > >
> > > FYI
> > >
> > >     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Subject:
> > > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:50:32 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: Craig Demanty <craigd@theworks.com>
> > > To: "thiry@theworks.com" <thiry@theworks.com>
> > >
> > > This just arrived today and I am passing it on to you to inform you of a
     very
> > > important matter:
> > > currently under review by the FCC, your local telphone company has filed a
> > > proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your internet
     service.
> > > They contend that your usage has or will hinder the operation of the
     telephone
> > > network.  It is our belief that internet usage will dimish if users are
> > > required to pay additional per minute charges.  The FCC has created an
     email
> > > box for your comments.  Responses must be received by February 13, 1998.
     Send
> > > your comments to <isp@fcc.gov> and tell them what you think.  Every phone
> > > company is in on this one, and they are trying to sneak it in just under
     the
> > > wire for litigation.  Let everyone you know hear this one.  Get the E-mail
> > > address to everyone you can think of.  Good luck to us all.
> >
> > -Anyone else hear anything of this sort?-
>
> Lord only knows why you asked about this on an origami mailing list.  Why
> didn't you do the obvious thing and check the FCC's website to check whether
> they are actually soliciting such comments?  Ten seconds on the FCC web site
> would have found you:
>
> http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factsheets/ispfact.html
>
> and that page says quite clearly:
>
>     Please Note: There is no open comment period in this proceeding. If you
>     have recently seen a message on the Internet stating that in response to a
>     request from local telephone companies, the FCC is requesting comments to
>     <isp@fcc.gov> by February 1998, be aware that this information is
>     inaccurate.
>
> /Bernie\
> --
> Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
> mailto:bernie@fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
>     -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--

Oops again, Sorry, sorry, sorry.  I didn't have access to that url.  I
figured I'd get told if I messed up again.  My apologies all.
jan.
--
<http://www.gotomymall.com/hawaii/origami/>
Origami by Jan website...the Fodor folder





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 00:55:40 -0400 (AST)
From: Paul & Jan Fodor <origami@aloha.net>
Subject: Re: charges for email

Bernie Cosell wrote:
>
> On 14 Jan 98 at 16:01, Paul & Jan Fodor wrote:
>
> > thiry gail bennett wrote:
> > >
> > > FYI
> > >
> > >     ---------------------------------------------------------------
> > >
> > > Subject:
> > > Date: Tue, 13 Jan 1998 11:50:32 -0800 (PST)
> > > From: Craig Demanty <craigd@theworks.com>
> > > To: "thiry@theworks.com" <thiry@theworks.com>
> > >
> > > This just arrived today and I am passing it on to you to inform you of a
     very
> > > important matter:
> > > currently under review by the FCC, your local telphone company has filed a
> > > proposal with the FCC to impose per minute charges for your internet
     service.
> > > They contend that your usage has or will hinder the operation of the
     telephone
> > > network.  It is our belief that internet usage will dimish if users are
> > > required to pay additional per minute charges.  The FCC has created an
     email
> > > box for your comments.  Responses must be received by February 13, 1998.
     Send
> > > your comments to <isp@fcc.gov> and tell them what you think.  Every phone
> > > company is in on this one, and they are trying to sneak it in just under
     the
> > > wire for litigation.  Let everyone you know hear this one.  Get the E-mail
> > > address to everyone you can think of.  Good luck to us all.
> >
> > -Anyone else hear anything of this sort?-
>
> Lord only knows why you asked about this on an origami mailing list.  Why
> didn't you do the obvious thing and check the FCC's website to check whether
> they are actually soliciting such comments?  Ten seconds on the FCC web site
> would have found you:
>
> http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Factsheets/ispfact.html
>
> and that page says quite clearly:
>
>     Please Note: There is no open comment period in this proceeding. If you
>     have recently seen a message on the Internet stating that in response to a
>     request from local telephone companies, the FCC is requesting comments to
>     <isp@fcc.gov> by February 1998, be aware that this information is
>     inaccurate.
>
> /Bernie\
> --
> Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
> mailto:bernie@fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
>     -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--

Hi Gail,
        I sent the email to the origami newsgroup and this is a response I
got.  They always tell it to me straight.  I should know better and ask
key people first.  Oh well, I still consider me a greenstick.
               Jan
--
<http://www.gotomymall.com/hawaii/origami/>
Origami by Jan website...the Fodor folder





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 01:08:10 -0400 (AST)
From: Paul & Jan Fodor <origami@aloha.net>
Subject: Re: charges for email

Sorry folks, Greenstick Jan did it again.  Duhhh, Jan





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 02:49:30 -0400 (AST)
From: Jorma Oksanen <tenu@sci.fi>
Subject: Re: symbolic origami

On 14-Jan-98, Paul & Jan Fodor (origami@aloha.net) wrote:

>You might be interested in sending a frog as a gift to people for these
>reasons.  In the Japanese tradition there are dual meanings to the word
>"kaeru".  It means "frog" and "come back or return to".  Thus the frog
>is supposed to bring luck with things to you want returned to you such
>as...good health, youthfulness, safe arrival home from a journey, money
>that is gambled, things you lost and want back.

Or favorite patrons in case of geishas, as told in page 24 of Engel's
"Origami from Angelfish to Zen".

Jorma





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 06:36:37 -0400 (AST)
From: Julius Kusserow <juku@studi.mathematik.hu-berlin.de>
Subject: difficulty ratings of models

Hi,

I'm a new member of the "origami-cummunity".
I have read many model criteria such as intermediate, complex, simple...
Is there anywhere a list which "folds or tricks" belongs to which
difficulty rating?

Julius Kusserow





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 07:07:23 -0400 (AST)
From: Bruce Stephens <B.Stephens@isode.com>
Subject: Re: difficulty ratings of models

juku@studi.mathematik.hu-berlin.de said:
> I have read many model criteria such as intermediate, complex,
> simple... Is there anywhere a list which "folds or tricks" belongs to
> which difficulty rating?

You may find something in the COET book.  Generally, the terms are used in a
pretty vague way, especially to give some idea to people at conventions, so we
know what we are letting ourselves in for.

As a general guideline, I suppose you could use sinks: "simple" models
probably won't contain any sinks, "intermediate" one might contain open sinks,
and "complex" ones might contain closed sinks.  But that doesn't really work,
because some sinks are simpler/more difficult than others, and some complex
models manage to be just about impossible without a single sink.





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 08:29:02 -0400 (AST)
From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@ahand.unicamp.br>
Subject: Re:anteater

Hi, folks
>>From: orig@webtv.net (DON CONNELL)
>>To: Multiple recipients of list <origami-l@nstn.ca>
>>Subject: Re:anteater
>>There is an intermediate Anteater in Montrol's African Animals  in
>>Origami on page  97.

Well, the "true" published anteater by Montroll is (as mentioned before)
in "O. Inside Out". The model in "A.A. in O." is an aardvark (yes, it
does eat ants, but it is not even zoologically related to true south
American anteaters :) )
Aardvarks have much larger ears, much shorter snouts, and lack the long fur
of most anteaters, especially the "tamandua-bandeira" ("flag-anteater", due
to its banner-like tail) which inspired Montroll.

You can find a rather more stylized anteater in Kawahata-san's recent
Wild Animals in O. Also, Jerry Harris (Jerry, where are you?) published
an anteater in a OrigamiUSA annual (around 93, if I remember well) - it
is the only one with an outstretched tongue...

About lemurs - well, that's a fairly diverse group of animals - the
aye-aye resembles a large big-eared, long-fingers mouse, the microcebus
is like a squirrel, the catta reminds me of a long-nosed monkey with
very long limbs, to say nothing of some aberrant ones. There are even
tailless types! Not to be picky, but there's no such thing as a
"generic lemur" model, you have to pick one!

        Sincerely,
        Carlos
               furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:02:39 -0400 (AST)
From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@ahand.unicamp.br>
Subject: Re: difficulty ratings of models

>>From origami-l@nstn.ca Thu Jan 15 09:07 EDT 1998
>>From: Bruce Stephens <B.Stephens@isode.com>
>>juku@studi.mathematik.hu-berlin.de said:
>>> I have read many model criteria such as intermediate, complex,
>>> simple... Is there anywhere a list which "folds or tricks" belongs to
>>> which difficulty rating?
>>You may find something in the COET book.  Generally, the terms are used in a
>>pretty vague way, especially to give some idea to people at conventions, so we
Since "complexity"/"difficulty" tags are inherently subjective, the
theme was periodically addressed in origami-l. Several metrics were
mentioned. R.Lang even proposed rock climbing as inspiration (a nice
idea, since, as the second post above, it addressed two dimensions:
individual folds demanding technical skill vs. overall duration of
folding process). Another proposed criterion added yet other dimensions
attempting to encompass many papercrafts besides origami.

Although after some practice one could quickly peruse diagram steps
and mentally assess the difficulty of every step (thus the whole
model) I'd surely like every diagram (or better yet, a book's table
of contents) mentioning something as "about xxx sinks/complex
maneuvers, yyy cuts (zzz optional), approximate paper/model size = ttt/www":
quite a bonus at the bookstore! [of course "hard" numbers are complicated
by "repeat" instructions, but I'd be happy with "diagrammed" xxx folds,
not "performed" ones. Note to programmers: did you know that the sea urchin
in Montroll/Lang's "O.Sea Life" has triple-nested loops?]

Anyway, few authors have expressed a clear opinion on sorting folding
maneuvers based on required skill levels. J.C.  Nolan published such
a classification in "Creating Origami" (I haven't read the COET proceedings).

        Sincerely,
        Carlos
`             furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 09:54:39 -0400 (AST)
From: A.Welles@student.kun.nl
Subject: Re:anteater/lemur

Hi all,

Just some additional info on anteaters and lemurs. Maybe some of it
already has been said...

Anteaters are toothless. That's all I canm add to it.

Lemurs only live (as far as I know) on the isle of Madagascar. Many
special types of animals live there that can only be found on Madagascar.
Would be a great theme for a book (as well as pouched animals from
Australia).

I have tried to design a ring-tailed lemur, using techniques similar of
those of the Raccoons by both John Montroll (Origami Inside-out) and
Kawahata (North American Animals in Origami). But getting a realistic face
is very hard, especially the big eyes and the ears.

Another interesting lemur is the aye-aye, which has enlarged middle
fingers on each hand, it uses to knock on wood to find out whether there
are any insects inside. Very clever animal!

And, another great subject is the Indri, A huge lemur, which is (I CAN be
mistaken though!) tailless. It is usually black and white: perfect for
Origami!

Arjan Welles
The Netherlands
(A.Welles@Student.kun.nl)





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:24:05 -0400 (AST)
From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@ahand.unicamp.br>
Subject: Re:anteater/lemur

>>From origami-l@nstn.ca Thu Jan 15 11:57 EDT 1998
>>From: A.Welles@student.kun.nl
>>
>>I have tried to design a ring-tailed lemur, using techniques similar of
>>those of the Raccoons by both John Montroll (Origami Inside-out) and
>>Kawahata (North American Animals in Origami). But getting a realistic face
Gee, THAT would be an accomplishment, as that particular lemur's tail
is proportionally much longer and slender than a raccoon's. Add four long
limbs, black-and-white facial features, and I wonder whence would the
paper come from. Aaah, origami's "power of suggestion"...
BTW, don't forget Marc Kirschenbaum's (sorry Marc for spelling) raccoon.
>>
>>Arjan Welles

        Sincerely,
        Carlos
               furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:42:29 -0400 (AST)
From: tomh@groupworks.com (Tom Hill)
Subject: Re: anteater

DON CONNELL wrote:

> There is an intermediate Anteater in Montrol's African Animals  in
> Origami on page  97.

This is interesting. In my copy of "African Animals...", page 97
contains steps 37 to 48 of the Zebra. My copy has and aardvark, but not
an anteater. It does, however, have a beeeater, which is not at all the
same thing.

A buddy brought his copy of "African Animals..." in to the office
yesterday, along with a copy of "Origami for the Connoisseur" (that's
another story). His copy isn't even the same size as mine. His "African
Animals..." is about six by eight inches. Mine is clearly eight and a
half by eleven. Does Dover do this often? I have to admit that I like
mine better. The diagrams are just enough larger that there's room for
me to scrawl my notes around some of the more complicated pictures.

Keep folding!

Peace,

Tom Hill
tomh@groupworks.com





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:42:44 -0400 (AST)
From: Jorma Oksanen <tenu@sci.fi>
Subject: Urban origami legend (Was Re: A suggestion for teachers)

On 15-Jan-98, Valerie Vann (valerie_vann@compuserve.com) wrote:
><<urban legend>>

>you mean like pet alligators in the sewer system?
>:-)

Uh-huh. I seem to have lost one Engel alligator. It was only five
inches long, but who knows how many cranes it has already eaten.

Jorma "safety boots" Oksanen





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:01:30 -0400 (AST)
From: tomh@groupworks.com (Tom Hill)
Subject: On the subject of animals...

Hey, since the group is in the midst of a discussion of animals, I
thought this would be a good time to drop this question in the mix:

I've been thinking of creating a Christmas present for my mother. She's
an avid collector of Noah's Ark's. You know, little sets of animals,
two-by-two, a man, and a boat. She's got dozens, wood, crystal,
paintings, embroidery, etc. Anyway, I'd like to make her a set of
origami animals, a Noah, and an Ark.

I've been practicing the animals in "African Animals...", but I've
noticed that the relative scales of the animals vary wildly. For
example, the Chameleon is as big as the elephant. Has anyone ever tried
to get these things scaled semi-appropriately so that they look good
together?

What animals would you include in a "minimal" set for this project? I'm
thinking that I've got to have elephants, giraffes, some member of the
monkey family, and a pair of birds (doves?). But, beyond that, I think
it's a matter of preference. Have I left out any that would be
essential? I'd like to have turtles. I think they emphasize the
all-inclusive nature of the story.

Has anyone got a good set of diagrams for an ark? It's going to have to
be big. What kind of paper would you suggest?

How about a Noah? Most of the pictures I've seen show him wearing a robe
or a tunic type of thing...

Here's the kicker: This has to be done on a budget. I don't really have
any money, so I can't buy too many books to complete my set of diagrams.

Thanks for your comments,

Peace,

Tom Hill
tomh@groupworks.com

PS: Just in case he hasn't been praised in public recently, I'd like to
thank John Montroll for elevating my folding beyond the paper airplane
stage. "African Animals" has been an inspiration during a very painful
financial period of my life. Thank You!





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:23:13 -0400 (AST)
From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@ahand.unicamp.br>
Subject: Re: anteater

>>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 10:42:36 -0400 (AST)
>>From: tomh@groupworks.com (Tom Hill)
>>Subject: Re: anteater
>>> Origami on page  97.
>>
>>A buddy brought his copy of "African Animals..." in to the office
>>another story). His copy isn't even the same size as mine. His "African
>>Animals..." is about six by eight inches. Mine is clearly eight and a
>>me to scrawl my notes around some of the more complicated pictures.
>>
>>Tom Hill
>>tomh@groupworks.com

After his two first published books (O.for the Enthusiast, Animal O.
for the E.), John Montroll joined his brother Andy and founded
Antroll (I do not know for sure, but the name's origin sounds too obvious).
All his following books were published almost simultaneously by
Antroll and Dover.
"O.Sculptures", "O.Sea Life" (w/R.Lang), "Prehistoric O." and "A. Animals
in O." were originally published in small size. The respective 2nd
editions (again by Antroll/Dover) had larger format and the cover
substituted color diagrams for photos.
As far as I know there are no other changes except eventually lay-out.
Newer books as "Mythological Creatures..", "O.Inside-out" and
"North Am.Animals..." were already published in the new format.

IMHO the older format was more practical to carry along and easier
to keep open - I hate breaking a book's spine.
I'd like to see a monster, omnibus hardcover has-all Montroll (or
Lang), easy-lay-flat edition, but I'm daydreaming. [I'd also like
to know if the atrocious errors in the introduction to dinosaurs
(not written by Montroll) in "Prehistoric O." 1st ed. were corrected]

        Sincerely,
        Carlos
               furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:39:57 -0400 (AST)
From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@ahand.unicamp.br>
Subject: Re: On the subject of animals...

Sorry for tiring you folks, but since I wrote nothing during the
recent discussion about the future of origami-l maybe I have a credit :)

>>From: tomh@groupworks.com (Tom Hill)
>>
>>Has anyone got a good set of diagrams for an ark? It's going to have to
>>Here's the kicker: This has to be done on a budget. I don't really have
>>any money, so I can't buy too many books to complete my set of diagrams.
>>
Well, how about a *single* model with the ark *plus* animals? Sounds too
good to be true? Neal Elias designed such a model long ago, it's a boat
with about half a dozen animal necks and heads sticking out.
There are some drawbacks:
- it uses a rectangle (I don't remember now the proportions)
- it is flat and (if I remember well) designed to be seen from the front only
- the heads are necessarily small and not too detailed
- I believe it was never properly diagrammed, but the BOS has published
  partial facsimiles of Elias's notebooks. They are quite readable
  although over-concise

I could fetch the book at home and seek for more details about the
model. Maybe it would not be too impressive as an array of nice,
detailed, 3D animals- but the result would be nice as a dioram background
or walled in a frame. And the bang-for-the-buck is unbeatable :)

        Sincerely,
        Carlos
               furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:46:54 -0400 (AST)
From: A.Welles@student.kun.nl
Subject: Re: On the subject of animals...

On Thu, 15 Jan 1998, Tom Hill wrote:

> Hey, since the group is in the midst of a discussion of animals, I
> thought this would be a good time to drop this question in the mix:
>
> I've been thinking of creating a Christmas present for my mother. She's
> an avid collector of Noah's Ark's. You know, little sets of animals,
> two-by-two, a man, and a boat. She's got dozens, wood, crystal,
> paintings, embroidery, etc. Anyway, I'd like to make her a set of
> origami animals, a Noah, and an Ark.

Very funny since I had the same idea too, making Noah's Ark together with
a bunch of people on the Dutch convention, but since I am not attending,
that won't happen probably...

>
> I've been practicing the animals in "African Animals...", but I've
> noticed that the relative scales of the animals vary wildly. For
> example, the Chameleon is as big as the elephant. Has anyone ever tried
> to get these things scaled semi-appropriately so that they look good
> together?

That's always a problem. I think you should try to find easy (so not very
detailed) designs for the smaller animals such as mice, birds (the dove!)
etc. You can use more detailed models for the bigger animals, but that
would imply bigger sizes of paper will be needed.

> What animals would you include in a "minimal" set for this project? I'm
> thinking that I've got to have elephants, giraffes, some member of the
> monkey family, and a pair of birds (doves?). But, beyond that, I think
> it's a matter of preference. Have I left out any that would be
> essential? I'd like to have turtles. I think they emphasize the
> all-inclusive nature of the story.

You probably shopuld include the most well-known animals. It doesn't make
much sense to put in less-known animals. Go for the animals kids think of
when going to the zoo: elephants, rhinos, horses, giraffes, maybe a snake,
cows,etc. Animals with distinctive features.  Realise some male animals
(like cows and some birds like ducks, or the lion and lioness)
might look different from the females.

> Has anyone got a good set of diagrams for an ark? It's going to have to
> be big. What kind of paper would you suggest?

I was planning to do an ark out of units. Which is more fun to fold with
a bunch of people instead of folding hundreds of units by yourself. You
might be able to find a good unit (I'm not sure though..) in some books
by the Momotani's, like the one with the houses and buildings made out of
units.
>
> How about a Noah? Most of the pictures I've seen show him wearing a robe
> or a tunic type of thing...
>
> Here's the kicker: This has to be done on a budget. I don't really have
> any money, so I can't buy too many books to complete my set of diagrams.
>
> Thanks for your comments,
>
> Peace,
>
> Tom Hill
> tomh@groupworks.com
>
> PS: Just in case he hasn't been praised in public recently, I'd like to
> thank John Montroll for elevating my folding beyond the paper airplane
> stage. "African Animals" has been an inspiration during a very painful
> financial period of my life. Thank You!

Yeah me too! The zebra was never done before, unique! The lion and giraffe
are magnificent. Although I think his best elephant is in "Origami
Inside-out", one of Montroll's best models! Does anyone know if Montroll
is planning to do any new stuff?





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 11:53:37 -0400 (AST)
From: Bruce Stephens <B.Stephens@isode.com>
Subject: Re: On the subject of animals...

tomh@groupworks.com said:
> What animals would you include in a "minimal" set for this project?
> I'm thinking that I've got to have elephants, giraffes, some member of
> the monkey family, and a pair of birds (doves?). But, beyond that, I
> think it's a matter of preference. Have I left out any that would be
> essential? I'd like to have turtles. I think they emphasize the
> all-inclusive nature of the story.

Insects?  In particular, butterflies are pretty, and there are lots of easy
ones.  Admittedly, getting the scale right is non-trivial.  I'm fairly sure
there's a web page with some guidelines about relative sizes of origami
models, but I can't remember where.

A cynical atheism might also suggest freshwater fish, kangaroos, unicorns,
dinosaurs, etc.!





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:15:31 -0400 (AST)
From: "Sonia Wu (NC)" <swu@virtu.sar.usf.edu>
Subject: Re: Lemurs and Anteaters and Tamarins

Many thanks for the responses to my request for info on diagrams for
lemurs and anteaters.

I figured finding ANY type of lemur diagram would be unlikely, and so did
not specify a type (indeed, the diversity of types is one of the
most alluring characteristics of lemurs). The ring-tailed lemur is
probably the most popularly recognizable, but since I hope to be able to
send a folded lemur model to a lemurophile, I am happy with whatever is
available.

I'm ALSO interested in finding a diagram of a golden lion tamarin, which I
believe is a type of marmoset.  If any type of marmoset diagram is
available, I could probably modify it to my purposes.

Thanks!

Sonia Wu
(Florida)





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:17:05 -0400 (AST)
From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@ahand.unicamp.br>
Subject: Re: Lemurs and Anteaters and Tamarins

>>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 12:15:45 -0400 (AST)
>>From: "Sonia Wu (NC)" <swu@virtu.sar.usf.edu>
>>
>>I'm ALSO interested in finding a diagram of a golden lion tamarin, which I
>>believe is a type of marmoset.  If any type of marmoset diagram is

Sadly, very few primate origami models are published, almost all
macaques and great apes (gorillas and chimpanzees).

Luckily the golden marmoset (its native name is "mico-le~ao dourado",
<mee'-koh lay-own'> ) has such a distinctive and unique pumpkin
color that shape should not be so important for recognizing the
model. [ how about the black-and-golden marmoset? :^) ]

IMHO the widely available model nearest in shape to marmosets is the monkey
in Montroll's "Chinese Zodiac". Its wide face can be sculptured, and
perhaps the ears turned into marmoset whiskers (how do you call those puffs
of hair??). It even suggests a cute and mischievous creature. If only the
tail was longer...

        Sincerely,
        Carlos
               furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:48:49 -0400 (AST)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Complexity vs. quality

There's been some exchanges about how to "rate" your folding ability &
most relies seem to point to landmark complexity designs. I'd suggest
there's another criteria that's more important - quality of folding.

I speak as someone who's folding is sloppy, but the mark of a master
folder (to me) is the ability to fold perfectly - no extra creases, no
scruffy edges, no layers bulging out and hardest of all, a "touch" with
the paper. At the last Sheffield BOS convention, Dave Brill asked us all
to make 3 designs & then we assessed them in terms of appeal (but
couldn't pick them up) - which was the most perfectly folded & why?

Francis Ow stands out to me as one such folder - every design he sends
to me is a treasure. They are folded so perfectly & yet don't look
overly flattened or creased. It's hard to define, but it's a quality
worth seeking.

If you can make a complex Lang design then you've achieved a level of
technical mastery, but when you can fold them to the extraordinary level
of Robert himself, then you *have* arrived. The only waqy to get there
is to treat *every* fold you make as an exhibition piece & refold it
over & over until you achieve perfection (if that's possible). Each time
you remake a piece it has less of a "stressed" look about it because
your fingers no what to do to persuade the paper into place rather than
forcing it. Go back to the classic crane & try to make a perect one -
it's a lot harder than you might think!

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk - now with RealAudio clips!





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:49:26 -0400 (AST)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: Re: charges for email

Jan,

At 00.49 15/1/1998 -0400, you wrote:

>Bernie Cosell wrote:
>>
>> On 14 Jan 98 at 16:01, Paul & Jan Fodor wrote:
>>
>> > thiry gail bennett wrote:
>> > >
....................
>Oops again, Sorry, sorry, sorry.  I didn't have access to that url.

No..... I understand that your "sorry" triplet is for the triple quoting !!

AAAAAAARRGGGGH !!!!  >%-O

Roberto
         _\|/_
        ( o o )
=====-oOO-(_)-OOo-========+
Roberto Morassi           |
Via Palestro 11           |  Please DON'T quote my full
51100 PISTOIA             |  message in reply... I KNOW
ITALY                     |  what I have written ! :-)
tel & fax (+)39-573-20436 |
E-mail <morassi@zen.it>   |





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:49:43 -0400 (AST)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: Re: On the subject of animals...

Tom,
At 11.01 15/1/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>
>I've been thinking of creating a Christmas present for my mother. She's
>an avid collector of Noah's Ark's. You know, little sets of animals,
>two-by-two, a man, and a boat.

--snip--
>What animals would you include in a "minimal" set for this project? I'm
>thinking that I've got to have elephants, giraffes, some member of the
>monkey family, and a pair of birds (doves?). But, beyond that, I think
>it's a matter of preference. Have I left out any that would be
>essential?

You've left out a woman, I'm afraid.....

;-)

Roberto
         _\|/_
        ( o o )
=====-oOO-(_)-OOo-========+
Roberto Morassi           |
Via Palestro 11           |  Please DON'T quote my full
51100 PISTOIA             |  message in reply... I KNOW
ITALY                     |  what I have written ! :-)
tel & fax (+)39-573-20436 |
E-mail <morassi@zen.it>   |





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 13:50:02 -0400 (AST)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: Re: A suggestion for teachers

Valerie
At 22.49 14/1/1998 -0400, you wrote:

><<urban legend>>
>
>you mean like pet alligators in the sewer system?

More or less..... Looks like you're in good company !
(:-D

Roberto





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:02:44 -0400 (AST)
From: A.Welles@student.kun.nl
Subject: Birds of paradise

Hi all,

I have thought about more subjects to do in Origami... Has anybody ever
spotted a bird of paradise in origami. There are many types of these
birds, with many great features, like big crowns of feathers, long
tail-feathers, with flags in the end and long feathers at the tip of the
wings.

Arjan Welles
The Netherlands
(A.Welles@Student.kun.nl)





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:13:08 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: Re: On the subject of animals...

>>I've been thinking of creating a Christmas present for my mother. She's
>>an avid collector of Noah's Ark's. You know, little sets of animals,
>>two-by-two, a man, and a boat.
>
>You've left out a woman, I'm afraid.....

Well, to get it right, you need Noah, his wife, their three sons, and their
wives. Grandkids are not mentioned, but might be assumed...

8)

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 14:40:57 -0400 (AST)
From: Jane Rosemarin <jfrmpls@spacestar.net>
Subject: Re: On the subject of animals...

A. Welles asked:
> Does anyone know if Montroll
>is planning to do any new stuff?

I took a class with John Montroll at the OUSA convention last summer, and
he was, indeed, preparing a new book. We were his  diagram testers . . .
guinea pigs (?) focus group (?).

Let's see: there was a lily with five petals made from a square, which I
folded. Everything else was animals, including an anhinga (tropical
bird). I folded what I think was a rhinocerous from a stretched bird base
(can't believe I forgot which animal it turned out to be, but too much
was going on, and we were asked to leave the models behind). The class
was billed as high intermediate.

At the end of the class, the models were assembled on a table at the
front of the room. They looked like a great start for a Noah's ark,
perhaps Florida-style with anhingas and lilies.

I don't know anything about publishing plans.

Jane





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 15:46:33 -0400 (AST)
From: Paul & Jan Fodor <origami@aloha.net>
Subject: Re: charges for email

Robby/Laura/Lisa wrote:
>
> Jan,
>
> At 00.49 15/1/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>
> >Bernie Cosell wrote:
> >>
> >> On 14 Jan 98 at 16:01, Paul & Jan Fodor wrote:
> >>
> >> > thiry gail bennett wrote:
> >> > >
> ....................
> >Oops again, Sorry, sorry, sorry.  I didn't have access to that url.
>
> No..... I understand that your "sorry" triplet is for the triple quoting !!
>
>Okay Roberto,
I take back one sorry because I messed up twice on this round.
               Aloha, Jan--
<http://www.gotomymall.com/hawaii/origami/>
Origami by Jan website...the Fodor folder





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 16:15:29 -0400 (AST)
From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>
Subject: Urban origami legend (Was Re: A suggestion for teachers)

<<lost an Engel alligator>>

It probably moved to your neighbors bathroom (via the sewer system)
and is cheerfully having one cat, dog or child for breakfast
every morning. (Paper cranes tend to be dry and tasteless;
any self-respecting alligator would rather have something juicier...)

valerie





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:10:31 -0400 (AST)
From: Maldon7929 <Maldon7929@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Modular Classification

How would the traditional "matsu box"  be classified in this respect?  Is it
"pure" origami because the lid and base are separate objects (as opposed to a
cube)  or  modular because the folding sequence is so similar?

I've developed a heart shaped box and need help with the description.

Thank you,

Maldon Wilson





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:14:25 -0400 (AST)
From: Maldon7929 <Maldon7929@aol.com>
Subject: NOR Diagramming Software

Do some of you have comments (+ or -) on a company called TommySoftware.  More
specifically their software package called  "CAD/DRAW 3?

Again: Thank you,

Maldon





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:30:04 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: Re: Modular Classification

>How would the traditional "matsu box"  be classified in this respect?  Is it
>"pure" origami because the lid and base are separate objects (as opposed to a
>cube)  or  modular because the folding sequence is so similar?
>I've developed a heart shaped box and need help with the description.

That would be "masu"  which means "measuring box". "Matsu" means "pine" (as
in the tree). This does make for an interesting "grey area", doesn't it? I
would not call it a modular design because it is simply a two piece model.
The two pieces are not designed to function as structural elements used to
create a new object. They are only two halves of an object.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 18:07:13 -0400 (AST)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: Re: On the subject of animals...

Joseph,
At 14.13 15/1/1998 -0400, you wrote:

>>You've left out a woman, I'm afraid.....
>
>Well, to get it right, you need Noah, his wife, their three sons, and their
>wives. Grandkids are not mentioned, but might be assumed...

He asks for a "minimal" set. Noah & wife are essential, the others may give
problems of weight and can be left out. The tribe can be rebuilt later....

;-)

Roberto
         _\|/_
        ( o o )
=====-oOO-(_)-OOo-========+
Roberto Morassi           |
Via Palestro 11           |  Please DON'T quote my full
51100 PISTOIA             |  message in reply... I KNOW
ITALY                     |  what I have written ! :-)
tel & fax (+)39-573-20436 |
E-mail <morassi@zen.it>   |





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 19:44:33 -0400 (AST)
From: Daddy-o D'gou <dwp@transarc.com>
Subject: Re: Modular Classification

+That would be "masu"  which means "measuring box". "Matsu" means "pine" (as
+in the tree). This does make for an interesting "grey area", doesn't it? I
+would not call it a modular design because it is simply a two piece model.
+The two pieces are not designed to function as structural elements used to
+create a new object. They are only two halves of an object.

What an odd classification.  I would have to disagree completely!
Master Fuse has many boxes with interchangeable bottoms and tops,
surely those are modular.  And I wouldn't think that structural-ity
would matter, since many objects (not just origami) have slots and tabs
for adding various "modular" decorative pieces.

-D'gou





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:00:41 -0400 (AST)
From: orig@webtv.net (DON CONNELL)
Subject: Just wondering...

Is there any such thing as an origami topic  that isn't disagreed about?





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:04:14 -0400 (AST)
From: Meristein <Meristein@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Re: Modular Classification

I'm interested in the heart shaped box design, modular or unit. Got diagrams?

Merida





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:04:32 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: Re: Modular Classification

>What an odd classification.  I would have to disagree completely!
>Master Fuse has many boxes with interchangeable bottoms and tops,
>surely those are modular.  And I wouldn't think that structural-ity
>would matter, since many objects (not just origami) have slots and tabs
>for adding various "modular" decorative pieces.

However, Fuse's boxes are made from multiple pieces that are not completed
objects in and of themselves, but must be assembled to make a box. The masu
is a complete box. Folding another masu with slightly different proportions
and then putting it on top as a lid does not make it a modular model. The
modularity of a model depends on the fact that its componet pieces are not
recognisable as a completed piece in and of themselves, but must be
assembled to make a finished piece. (There are, of course, exceptions to
this rule, such as the pig-pinwheel in the Biddles' "Essential Origami".)

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:07:58 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: Re: Just wondering...

>Is there any such thing as an origami topic  that isn't disagreed about?

What are you saying, Don? That we origami-l people can't agree with each
other? We can't get along? Huh? Is that it? We're all just a bunch of petty
bickering wretches? HUH? IS THAT IT?
.
.
.
.
We'll, you're right!   8)

<for the humour-impaired: this was a joke>

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:15:33 -0400 (AST)
From: Meristein <Meristein@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Re: Modular Classification

Since the masu box is a traditional fold, and one that was actually used as a
measure for foods it probably is not a good example for the burgeoning
modular/unit debate(after all, we'll need something to occupy us when the
list-moving debate is exhausted).

The second definition of modular in the unabridged Random House Dictionary
claims, "standardized units or sections for easy construction or flexible
arrangement.". If the definition of one word contains the other word in
question, are we not headed for a tautology at best and redundancy at worst? I
call it moot.

On the subject of sewer alligators perhaps we should think in terms of someone
like Tom Wolfe, an urbane legend in his own right.

Merida





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 20:32:06 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: Re:  Re: Modular Classification

>The second definition of modular in the unabridged Random House Dictionary
>claims, "standardized units or sections for easy construction or flexible
>arrangement.". If the definition of one word contains the other word in
>question, are we not headed for a tautology at best and redundancy at worst? I
>call it moot.

But the argument I am making is that "modular" and "unit" are synonymous in
origami, and I am suggesting that the masu is not a modular/unit origami
model.

>On the subject of sewer alligators perhaps we should think in terms of someone
>like Tom Wolfe, an urbane legend in his own right.

Was that a typo, or did you really mean to say "urbane"?  8)

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:50:23 -0400 (AST)
From: Sheldon Ackerman <ackerman@dorsai.org>
Subject: Re: Just wondering...

>
> Is there any such thing as an origami topic  that isn't disagreed about?
>
You can give up wondering. There is no topic origami or otherwise that isn't
disagreed about :-)

--
---
Sheldon Ackerman.......http://www.dorsai.org/~ackerman/
ackerman@dorsai.org
sheldon_ackerman@fc1.nycenet.edu





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:51:46 -0400 (AST)
From: Chris Miller <chris@ori.net>
Subject: NO/somewhat my hard drive

i figured out why my hard drive kept going up in space used.. i've been
storing all the origami-l messages i've been getting! hehe :> i have approx
from the end of september, which equals, give or take, 2147 origami-l
messages. :) maybe i should learn to do cgi or perl and make an archive like
you pros. :)

_____________
~-*(Chris Miller, maybe taking the title of one of the youngest people on
origami-l.. at 15 years old. :) )*-~





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 22:58:31 -0400 (AST)
From: Jorma Oksanen <tenu@sci.fi>
Subject: Re: Just wondering...

>Is there any such thing as an origami topic  that isn't disagreed about?

There's a silent agreement about disagreeding everything. :)

Jorma





Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 23:08:36 -0400 (AST)
From: Meristein <Meristein@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Re:  Re: Modular Classification

In a message dated 1/15/98 7:33:32 PM, you wrote:

<<Was that a typo, or did you really mean to say "urbane"?  8)>>

Yup, I meant it.

MSW





Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:10:49 -0400 (AST)
From: mSaliers <saliers@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: On the subject of animals...

You said:

> there's a web page with some guidelines about relative sizes of origami
> models, but I can't remember where.
>

I say:

      www.concentric.net/~saliers/origami/orgdims.shtml





Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:21:19 -0400 (AST)
From: mSaliers <saliers@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Just wondering...

> >
> > Is there any such thing as an origami topic  that isn't disagreed about?
> >
> You can give up wondering. There is no topic origami or otherwise that isn't
> disagreed about :-)
>
>

That's not true!





Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 00:41:26 -0400 (AST)
From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>
Subject: NO/somewhat my hard drive

or just check all those files and go download them from the archive

valerie





Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 10:51:24 -0400 (AST)
From: Lisa Hodsdon <Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com>
Subject: Re: Just wondering...

orig@webtv.net (who's that?) asked:
>Is there any such thing as an origami topic  that isn't disagreed about?

How about "the crane is a traditional model."

No, that's either a tautology or it's debatable:
     The traditional Japanese crane is a traditional Japanese model.
     Which crane is traditional?
     Does being a traditional Japanese model make it a generic traditional
model?
     What does "traditional" mean?

Ok, maybe that's not a perfect example.

How about: "If you have the opportunity to acquire cool paper, do it."

I don't think you'll get much debate on that one.

Lisa
Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com

If you count cranes in base 8, you can get 20 cranes from a sheet of kami!





Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:42:11 -0400 (AST)
From: Bruce Stephens <B.Stephens@isode.com>
Subject: Re: Just wondering...

Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com said:
> How about: "If you have the opportunity to acquire cool paper, do it."

Or "wet-folding is a good technique for some models."





Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:45:34 -0400 (AST)
From: Cathy <cathypl@generation.net>
Subject: RE: Name this base?

>X-Sender: draken@mail.odyssee.net
>Date: Thu, 15 Jan 1998 17:23:38 -0500
>To: Cathy <cathypl@generation.net>
>From: draken@odyssee.net (Dominique Durocher)
>Subject: RE: Name this base?
>Content-Length: 518
>
>Hi!
>
>Glad to hear you're doing well in a town mostly in the dark.
>
>>>Also most of the "X-Wing" models are from a frog base.
>
>Could you please repond this for me:
>
>Are there other X-Wing models that use another base?
>
>Thanks
>
>Dom
>
>Dominique Durocher      | Lair of the Drake
>   draken@odyssee.net   |   http://www.odyssee.net/~draken/index.html
>SF Model Builder's Assn | SF Model Builder's Association
>                        |   http://www.newfrontier.on.ca
>  Making something idiot-proof just breeds better idiots.
>
>
>
******^^^^^*****^^^^^*****

Cathy Palmer-Lister
Ste. Julie, Quebec
Canada
cathypl@generation.net





Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 11:45:51 -0400 (AST)
From: Every Folder <everyfolder@geocities.com>
Subject: For your consideration

Salutations

It has come to my attention that this group has not taken the Unafolder
seriously enough.  The time has come for a Origami Unafolder Foundation
Alliance.

Who could deserve this more?   A folder brave enough to speak forth on the
dangers of extraterrestrial and  reveal scandals.  No issue has been too
difficult for
him to address. This folder's insight provides guidance and direction for
the origami-l community.  Such daring deserves our honor.   Join together
with me in our support of the Great Unafolder.

EveryFolder





Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:20:18 -0400 (AST)
From: Lisa Hodsdon <Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com>
Subject: Re: Just wondering...

>Or "wet-folding is a good technique for some models."

What is wet-folding? Which models? How do you know? What kind of paper?

This is exactly the problem I was having with

"The crane is a traditional model." The statement itself isn't

controversial, but it's not specific enough to not be debatable.

How about: "Don't wait til the book's out of print"? Or the

related statement "Origami books go out of print too fast"?

Lisa





Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 12:29:46 -0400 (AST)
From: Lisa Hodsdon <Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com>
Subject: Re: For your consideration

Everyfolder intones:
>A folder brave enough to speak forth on the dangers of extraterrestrial
and
>reveal scandals.  No issue has been too difficult for him to address. This
folder's
>insight provides guidance and direction for the origami-l community. Such
daring
>deserves our honor.  Join together with me in our support of the Great
Unafolder.

Do you really think we should ...
..support an individual who's afraid to show his face?
..support an individual who wreaks (wrecks?) havoc in our tranquil
community?
..support an individual who ruins the reputations of upright folders?
..support an individual who takes carriage rides in New York City?

Where do I sign up?





Date: Fri, 16 Jan 1998 13:23:39 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: RE: Name this base?

>>>>Also most of the "X-Wing" models are from a frog base.
>>
>>Could you please repond this for me:
>>Are there other X-Wing models that use another base?

Yes.  Asgar Malik and Larry Hart have an X-wing model that is folded from a
bird base. I've not heard from them in a while, but they are supposed to be
working on their book of Star Trek and Star Wars models.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca
