




Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 13:02:39 -0400 (AST)
From: Mustafah Dhada <dhada@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Message from Internet

Mr.. and Mrs.. Owen:
Here is the message I originally pasted on the list but which I bunged-up
because of the HTML problem. I hope you can read it and if so help me out.
Do you think I should send out the query again to all? Dhada.

I have recently joined the list and would like to ask members to help me out
on an "applied aspect of Origami". I am producing graphic-intensive
templates to be enclosed in a nine and a half by six and a half
folder/envelope - self closing, needing no glue and simple and effective. I
have several ideas for such a folder/envelope, none very exciting. Can you
point me in the right direction or suggest ways of executing the project.
Rather than flood the list with replies to this request perhaps it will be
better if replies were sent to dhada@mindspring.com

Your help in this matter will be much appreciated. May I take this
opportunity to wish you all a very Happy New Year and may it be stellar in
creative origami.
-----Original Message-----
From: Mr & Mrs Owen <djowen@pcl.net>
Date: Friday, January 02, 1998 11:29 AM
Subject: Re: Message from Internet

>
>
>
>> Sorry. Is this better?
>Looks okay so far.  Please send your message again so I can read it.
>joyce





Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 14:50:41 -0400 (AST)
From: Marcia Mau <maumoy@hotmail.com>
Subject: Origami Valentines

The Current catalog has 3 sets of kids' special origami valentines:

fold-up airplanes
fold up animal faces
fortune teller valentines

I wonder if they have a designer who is a folder on staff.  Last year I
found origami valentines in one of their Denver outlets.  The heart
patterned paper was scored.  Included were instructions to fold:

Design-a-scope (fortune teller)
Glider
Box (waterbomb)
Bowl (masu box)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 18:02:05 -0400 (AST)
From: DMAWolf <DMAWolf@aol.com>
Subject: Re: origami sighting

Another sort of sighting
  I bought my six year old god-son a computer program called First Grade
Jumpstart .  The program is a learning program with a cartoon classroom to
explore.  He took a book off the shelf and it was stories from various
countries.  The Japanese one centers around Origami and a Sumo.  He thinks I
wrote it because as far as he knows I am the only one who folds paper.  What a
great surprise for both of us to have a story we can relate to.  I just don't
know if a child with hispanic roots will make a good Sumo but an origamist is
a possiblity.  (Right now he leans toward the Sumo choice)
Diana Wolf.





Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 19:06:03 -0400 (AST)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Unicorn?

On Wed, 31 Dec 1997, Michel Bartolone wrote:
> A very dear friend bought me some really nice paper as a Christmas present.
> I think it would make a really nice looking unicorn. Can someone suggest
> a specific book, or web site that would have instructions for one?

There is a nice but complex Unicorn in Fumiaki Kawahata's
_Origami_Fantasy_.

Yours, Sebastian                                       skirsch@t-online.de
                        /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





Date: Fri, 02 Jan 1998 20:46:57 -0400 (AST)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: Re: Message from Internet

Mustafah,

At 01.22 2/1/1998 -0400, you wrote:
>Sorry. Is this better?

As far as HTML tags are concerned, yes. But you should NEVER quote one full
message by somebody else just to add one of two lines of yours.... it's a
total nuisance, and unfair to other readers who pay for every single byte
they download, or for every second they stay connected..... :-)

Please, could you tell us what mail program do you use, and a stepwise
description of how have you disabled the HTML stuff ? This can help other
readers (not much familiar with program settings) to do the same thing.

Of course this request is extended to anybody else using mail programs with
HTML formatting options, in the hope of fixing this problem once and for
all... ;-)

Roberto
         _\|/_
        ( o o )
=====-oOO-(_)-OOo-========+
Roberto Morassi           |
Via Palestro 11           |  Please DON'T quote my full
51100 PISTOIA             |  message in reply... I KNOW
ITALY                     |  what I have written ! :-)
tel & fax (+)39-573-20436 |
E-mail <morassi@zen.it>   |





Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 12:58:09 -0400 (AST)
From: "Nancy B. McNitt" <nbm@mindspring.com>
Subject: New Origami

I have recently come across two new origami items:

Paperopolis by Virgin, ISBN 1-887360-06-9; a CDROM for both MAC and Windows.
This has many of the Traditional Origami, but you can print out instructions
along with patterned paper. It will be usefull for my classes.

A new book for children; "Little Oh" BY Melmed illustrated by LaMarche, ISBN
0-688-14208-7. A delightful story about a paper doll and how she becomes a
real girl. I will use this when I substitute for K-5th grades.

Glenn McNitt





Date: Sat, 03 Jan 1998 19:38:21 -0400 (AST)
From: DonnaJowal <DonnaJowal@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Re: Unicorn?

Roberto,

Yes, the Patricia Crawford Unicorn is published in both JC Nolan's Creating
Origami, and the Harbin book.  I cited only Nolan's book because I think the
Harbin book is out of print, and I don't own it so I wasn't sure which one it
was.  I love the model.  It was the first difficult model I folded, in a class
with a terrific teacher who taught us how to dye the back of foil paper,   so
my unicorn looked like verdigris copper with a gold horn!

Donna





Date: Sun, 04 Jan 1998 17:59:05 -0400 (AST)
From: Arlene Anderson <aanderso@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us>
Subject: origami sighting-cartoon

The Dec 11'97 issue of Old Cars Magazine has a cartoon by Jay
Piersanti.Cartoon is labeled "Otto Mechanic", probably a regular feature.

Anyway, Truck with sign on side reads
        "Original Japanese ORIGAMI Paper Sculpture"

Driver is obviously under great stress as he tries to refold a roadmap!

Arlene Anderson                aanderso@mail.bcpl.lib.md.us





Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 00:25:14 -0400 (AST)
From: "Daniel J. Byrne & Candice Bradley" <djbyrne@pop.athenet.net>
Subject: epcot origami

We were just in Orlando last week and visited the Japanese Pavilion at
Epcot.  (No, we didn't see any Disney paper at the shop there. Sorry.)
I did take a couple of pictures, one of their little origami ornamented
Christmas tree, and another of the table they had set up where kids
could color a square piece of ordinary paper xeroxed with little stars
and folded into a waterbomb base, which was subsequently turned into a
cute little tree ornament.  It's all pretty simple, but I thought I'd
put the photos on line for the curious.

http://www.athenet.net/~djbyrne/origami.html

I did enjoy the new origami page auf Deutsch.  Sehr nett!

Candice

--
             Candice Bradley and Daniel J. Byrne
                John, Mark and Camille Byrne
                     Appleton, Wisconsin
                 email:  djbyrne@athenet.net
                 candice.bradley@lawrence.edu
             http://www.lawrence.edu/~bradleyc/





Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 08:11:05 -0400 (AST)
From: "S.Y. Chen" <sychen@erols.com>
Subject: Name this base?

Hi everyone,

After teaching origami for a while, I found there is a common base which I
don't know the name. The base is in-between step of preliminary base and
frog base. One can obtain this base by squashing(or inside reverse) the 4
flaps of waterbomb base or preliminary base. The opened crease pattern
contains only 8 straight lines passing through the center of square so the
divided angles are equally distributted around the center. Indeed I found
this base has more applications than the frog base does since it is one
step simpler (without petal fold) than the frog base.(not mentioning the
repeated pattern of multi-pointed complex  model)

My question is if there is a name for this base. Can we just call it
pre-frog or pre-Lily base? Uchiyama called it A12 base (Complete Origami by
Eric Kenneway). I do think this can save some communication and extra
diagramming if origami society comes up with a good name for this base.

There are several vegetable/flower/fruit/decoration models from above base.
I have several choices to teach models from that base.

In searching of good examples of frog base application to teach I found
models from frog base were very few except of frog/lily and some human
figures. Cerceda had several birds from stretched 'frog base' and there are
many judgement folds involved. Can anyone suggest other good frog base
examples other than above  mentioning?

Thank you for reading this mail.

|------------------------------------------------------\
|  _   Shi-Yew Chen (a.k.a. Sy) <sychen@erols.com>     |\
| |_| Folding http://www.erols.com/sychen1/pprfld.html --\





Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 10:40:06 -0400 (AST)
From: tomh@groupworks.com (Tom Hill)
Subject: Re: Name this base?

S.Y. Chen wrote:

In searching of good examples of frog base application to teach I found

> models from frog base were very few except of frog/lily and some human
> figures. Cerceda had several birds from stretched 'frog base' and there are
> many judgement folds involved. Can anyone suggest other good frog base
> examples other than above  mentioning?
>
> Thank you for reading this mail.

I found a diagram for an eagle on the net somewhere, that begins "Start with
frog base..." I've looked through all of my books (admittedly a pitiful
collection) and can't find the frog base anywhere. So, my questions are: 1)
What's a frog base? and 2) Where does one find diagrams of various bases?
Beginners who download diagrams from the net and then can't even start because
they don't know the base to start from are seriously frustrated beginners!

Peace,

Tom Hill





Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 12:12:37 -0400 (AST)
From: Brian Cox <briancox@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: Name this base?

Tom Hill wrote:
 S.Y. Chen wrote:

> In searching of good examples of frog base application to teach I found
>
> What's a frog base? and 2) Where does one find diagrams of various bases?

Try looking at The Joy of Origami by Toshie Takahama.  It has  about 12
pages  dealing with folding many different bases

Brian Cox





Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 17:06:59 -0400 (AST)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Name this base?

On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, S.Y. Chen wrote:
> After teaching origami for a while, I found there is a common base which I
> don't know the name. The base is in-between step of preliminary base and
> frog base. One can obtain this base by squashing(or inside reverse) the 4
> flaps of waterbomb base or preliminary base.

Gay Merril Gross calls this an umbrella base, but this name does not seem
to be widely used.

> Can anyone suggest other good frog base examples other than above
> mentioning?

Gabriel Alvarez' superb Dedalo is from a stretched frog base. Kasahara
also uses the frog base a couple of times in "Creative Origami", eg. for a
monkey or a buddha. Kawasaki has made a ouple of shells from a frog base,
and John Montroll's pelican in OFTC is made from what could be called a
frog-base relative -- although the relation is not too close.

Yours, Sebastian                                       skirsch@t-online.de
                        /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 17:14:13 -0400 (AST)
From: Sandra Wambold <wambold@pobox.com>
Subject: Re: epcot origami

If anyone's looking for Disney origami paper, Shizu lists three sizes of
Disney paper.  They also have Peanuts/Snoopy paper.

-sew





Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 18:59:16 -0400 (AST)
From: Maldon7929 <Maldon7929@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Re: Unicorn? how to dye the back of foil paper.

Donna,

>a terrific teacher who taught us how to dye the back of foil paper,   so
>my unicorn looked like verdigris copper with a gold horn!

Would you, could you share the process with us?

Thank you,

Maldon





Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 19:27:59 -0400 (AST)
From: "Michael G. Wareman" <mike.wareman@oldscollege.ab.ca>
Subject: Help with Robert Lang's Origami insects

Season's Greetings:

Over the Christmas holidays I had plenty of time to try some of Robert
Lang's origami insects.  I was able to do his scorpion, but would like any
hints on how to do step 31.  I had a lot of trouble getting that very small
square of paper to fold up into the waterbomb base.  I was also not able to
do the waterbomb base in step 80.

I also tried to do the butterfly but I am stuck on step 28-29.  I don't
seem to get the reverse folds as shown.  Is there a special trick to do
this?

And I tried the Black Pine Sawyer but I am stuck at step 41.  I can't seem
to get the sink to work properly.  Again, is there a special trick to this?

I have also noticed that some parts of the model become quite thick,
especially the legs.  Any ideas on how to deal with those parts?

Any help, hints, or tips would be greatly appreciated.

Michael G. Wareman
mike.wareman@oldscollege.ab.ca





Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 21:41:29 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: Re: Origami Deutschland Web Pages

At 19:37 -0400 1997/12/23, Sebastian Marius Kirsch wrote:
>just wanted to inform you that the Origami Deutschland web pages are now
>inofficially out(TM) (or something like that ...)
>
>They are available via
>
>       http://www.origami.net/homes/od/
>
>(Many thanks to rsp for providing the web space!)

Sebastian, which site is the correct one? The URL you give above or this
older one which still works?

http://www.uni-mainz.de/~maulm001/od/e/main.html

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca





Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 23:28:21 -0400 (AST)
From: joel@exc.com (Dr. Joel M. Hoffman)
Subject: "The Mask"?

I got a postcard from Japan (probably because I subscribed to
Tanteidan) with an origami mask on it.  The only English words on it
are "The Mask" (in large letters) and "Gallery Origami House."  Can
someone who knows Japanese please tell me what this is?

Thanks.

-Joel
(joel@exc.com)





Date: Mon, 05 Jan 1998 23:47:19 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: RE: "The Mask"? (New book by FUSE Tomoko)

On Monday, January 05, 1998 7:28 PM, Dr. Joel M. Hoffman [SMTP:joel@exc.com]
wrote:
> I got a postcard from Japan (probably because I subscribed to
> Tanteidan) with an origami mask on it.  The only English words on it
> are "The Mask" (in large letters) and "Gallery Origami House."  Can
> someone who knows Japanese please tell me what this is?

It's an announcement for FUSE Tomoko's newest book, published by Gallery
Origami House. Actually, it's YAMAGUCHI Makoto's newest book of Fuse mask
designs. I saw TAJIRI Atsushi (Yamaguchi's assistant) working on it the last
time I was at Origami House. Anyway, here's the book info:

Author: FUSE Tomoko
Editor (diagrammer?): YAMAGUCHI Makoto
Publisher: Origami House
Format: 200 pages (B4 size), with 16 pages of colour photos
Price: 3000 yen (plus 430 yen shipping [I think])

Until Fascinating Folds, OrigamiUSA, or Sasuga get ahold of it, it will only be
available directly from Origami House. They've recently updated their postal
codes over there, so here's the new address:

Gallery Origami House
1-33-8-216 Hakusan
Bunkyo-ku, Tokyo 113-0001
Japan

As always, if you want to send money, don't send a cheque of any sort. Rather,
use an international postal money order.

Joseph Wu, Origami Artist & Multimedia Producer
T: (604)730-0306 x 105    F: (604)732-7331   E: josephwu@ultranet.ca
W: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 00:51:36 -0400 (AST)
From: Perry Bailey <pbailey@mtayr.heartland.net>
Subject: Re: Name this base?

>In searching of good examples of frog base application to teach I found
> eagle on the net somewhere, that begins "Start with
>frog base..." I've looked through all of my books (admittedly a pitiful
>collection) and can't find the frog base anywhere. So, my questions are
>: 1) What's a frog base.

Just about any OUSA annual shows the base and their names in the front of
the book.  While I admit there are cheaper books than the annuals, believe
me you get more than your moneys worth!!
 2) Where does one find diagrams of various bases?
Go to Joseph Wu's home page and go to the links section, all of the bases
are on web pages, it may take a little work, but it will be worth it.
Perry

Paper, scissors, stone.....
Origami, Kirigami, bludgeon....
pbailey@mtayr.heartland.net





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 00:56:04 -0400 (AST)
From: Rachel Katz <mandrk@pb.net>
Subject: Re: Cranes for Sue

Since the list was rather quiet this holiday season, Iplanned to repeat
this message for those that would like to participate.

> Many of you know Sue Walsh as the Kawasaki Rose. Yes, she actually dressed as
> a rose to teach her class at the NYC Convention a year or two ago. Sue taught
> the rose at the convention, at "Special Sessions" and impromptu (all you had
     to
> do was ask) in her fun loving, generous style. She always provided ferns and
> pretty mylar paper so you completed a lovely bouquet, not just the rose.
>
> Sadly, Sue is battling inoperable cancer that so far has been resistant to
> treatment. I'd like to have 1,000 cranes put together before February from her
> origami friends. I didn't want to pressure anyone before Christmas, but any
> contributions would be appreciated. Please use any 3 inch paper. I'll include
> the names of all contributors but please feel free to sign your name on a
> crane.
>
> Send the cranes to me as soon as possible. I'll repeat the message after the
> New Year for those to busy to check messages during the holiday season.
>
> Rachel Katz
> 45 Lone Oak Path
> Smithtown, NY 11787
>
>
>

Rachel Katz
Origami - it's not just for squares!





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 04:24:35 -0400 (AST)
From: Frank Pelz <frank.pelz@metronet.de>
Subject: bee diagramm

I found in a model index the "bee by Marc Kirschenbaum, 1996 by Myer
Gotz page 123".
It was not possible to get some further information in book archives .

Where can I get a book with the diagramms?

regards Frank





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 04:24:35 -0400 (AST)
From: Frank Pelz <frank.pelz@metronet.de>
Subject: bee diagramm

I found in a model index the "bee by Marc Kirschenbaum, 1996 by Myer
Gotz page 123".
It was not possible to get some further information in book archives .

Where can I get a book with the diagramms?

regards Frank





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 04:37:36 -0400 (AST)
From: "Chamberlain, Clare" <Clare.Chamberlain@health.wa.gov.au>
Subject: ethnocentrism

Having had a bit of mulling time recently, I just wanted to remind the
tiny minority of you gloating over the fall in Asian currencies, because
of the subsequent fall in book prices.
This list goes out to people of numerous countries, many of whom are
affected by these currency disasters, either directly or otherwise.  I
personally have friends with drastic income cuts, as tourist numbers
have fall in here, in Australia.  Currency crashes lead to job losses
and all that entails.
I guess I am generally conscious, particularly here in Australia with is
both (or neither) Eastern nor Western, and Southern but Northern!
I'm not espousing political correctness, but please, when you chat,
remember the list isn't just for your own countrymen and women!
There, now it's off my chest, I shall go and fold myself another bra and
keep it to burn for another occasion!

Clare Chamberlain
Planning Officer
Healthcare Investment Unit
Program Purchasing
Health Department of Western Australia
189 Royal Street, EAST PERTH, WA 6004
Clare.Chamberlain@health.wa.gov.au





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 04:37:36 -0400 (AST)
From: "Chamberlain, Clare" <Clare.Chamberlain@health.wa.gov.au>
Subject: ethnocentrism

Having had a bit of mulling time recently, I just wanted to remind the
tiny minority of you gloating over the fall in Asian currencies, because
of the subsequent fall in book prices.
This list goes out to people of numerous countries, many of whom are
affected by these currency disasters, either directly or otherwise.  I
personally have friends with drastic income cuts, as tourist numbers
have fall in here, in Australia.  Currency crashes lead to job losses
and all that entails.
I guess I am generally conscious, particularly here in Australia with is
both (or neither) Eastern nor Western, and Southern but Northern!
I'm not espousing political correctness, but please, when you chat,
remember the list isn't just for your own countrymen and women!
There, now it's off my chest, I shall go and fold myself another bra and
keep it to burn for another occasion!

Clare Chamberlain
Planning Officer
Healthcare Investment Unit
Program Purchasing
Health Department of Western Australia
189 Royal Street, EAST PERTH, WA 6004
Clare.Chamberlain@health.wa.gov.au





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 04:41:16 -0400 (AST)
From: Rjlang@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Help with Robert Lang's Origami insects

>>>>
Over the Christmas holidays I had plenty of time to try some of Robert Lang's
origami insects.  I was able to do his scorpion, but would like any hints on
how to do step 31.  I had a lot of trouble getting that very small square of
paper to fold up into the waterbomb base.
<<<<

While it isn't essential, a helpful trick is to unfold a large paper clip and
poke the end up inside the model to poke the waterbomb base upward. Anything
long, skinny, and blunt will work.

>>>>
I was also not able to do the waterbomb base in step 80.
<<<<

I'm guessing you mean step 82. The WB base is defined by 4 valley folds; if
you get the top two in the right place (by reverse-folding the raw layer of
paper appropriately) then you can poke the bottom creases into place as you
close the model back up. Again, the paper-clip tool can help.

>>>>
I also tried to do the butterfly but I am stuck on step 28-29.  I don't seem
to get the reverse folds as shown.  Is there a special trick to do this?
<<<<

Not really. Just put the creases into place. If you focus on getting the
mountain folds in the right place, the valley folds more or less come along
on their own.

>>>>
And I tried the Black Pine Sawyer but I am stuck at step 41.  I can't seem to
get the sink to work properly.  Again, is there a special trick to this?
<<<<

Don't think so. The diagonal creases are formed by pre-creases. The folds
parallel to the vertical axis need to be put into place by you as you do the
sink

>>>>
I have also noticed that some parts of the model become quite thick,
especially the legs.  Any ideas on how to deal with those parts?
<<<<

Just be careful with layer buildup along the centerline of the leg flaps.

>>>>
Any help, hints, or tips would be greatly appreciated.
<<<<

Hope this helps. Thanks for buying the book!

Robert





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 06:36:20 -0400 (AST)
From: Frank Pelz <frank.pelz@metronet.de>
Subject: Re: Help with Robert Lang's Origami insects

Hi Michael,

I did exactly the same over the chrismas holidays (folds in the past  Black
Pine Sawyer, Paper Wasp (my favourite model), Scorpion, Praying Mantis, Engels
Butterfly).

 I always take photos of difficult steps when I am folding. For the first folds
I use a very large papersize aprox. 30 inch !, so the details steps at the end
of the models are large enough to handle.

Sometimes some steps are not important, later they are inside the models,
nobody will see them or you can skip some steps
(e.g. go directly from step 9 to 17 with Engels butterfly it is much easier)

Michael G. Wareman schrieb:

> Season's Greetings:
>
> Over the Christmas holidays I had plenty of time to try some of Robert
> Lang's origami insects.  I was able to do his scorpion, but would like any
> hints on how to do step 31.  I had a lot of trouble getting that very small
> square of paper to fold up into the waterbomb base.  I was also not able to
> do the waterbomb base in step 80.
>

Step 31: What are your detailed problems?Step 82:(waterbomb base)I had also
some difficulties with this step.Use a large paper size, so for the first time
it is no problem.
If you need a scanned picture of the waterbomb base in step 82 let me know, may
be it will help you, but this takes some kBytes.

> I also tried to do the butterfly but I am stuck on step 28-29.  I don't
> seem to get the reverse folds as shown.  Is there a special trick to do
> this?
>

I did only Engels butterfly.

> And I tried the Black Pine Sawyer but I am stuck at step 41.  I can't seem
> to get the sink to work properly.  Again, is there a special trick to this?
>

I did many study folds before i get through (nice challenge).If you need a
scanned picture - side view in that you can see exactly the necessary mountain
and valley folds - let me know I can send it to you via e-mail, but it will
take some kBytes..

For further releases of the book, I think this step could be explained better
with an additional side view.

> I have also noticed that some parts of the model become quite thick,
> especially the legs.  Any ideas on how to deal with those parts?

Unsolved problem for me , too.

> Any help, hints, or tips would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Michael G. Wareman
> mike.wareman@oldscollege.ab.ca

regards Frank





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 09:16:51 -0400 (AST)
From: youngcj@ix.netcom.com (Carole Young)
Subject: Re: ethnocentrism

The currency disasters also affect American employees who work for
companies that do international business.  The results are downsizing
ie lay-offs.  Currency can be the prime driving force in business,
about which nothing can be done but to make of the difference by
drastic means.

Carole

You wrote:
>
>Having had a bit of mulling time recently, I just wanted to remind the
>tiny minority of you gloating over the fall in Asian currencies,
because
>of the subsequent fall in book prices.
>This list goes out to people of numerous countries, many of whom are
>affected by these currency disasters, either directly or otherwise.  I
>personally have friends with drastic income cuts, as tourist numbers
>have fall in here, in Australia.  Currency crashes lead to job losses
>and all that entails.
>I guess I am generally conscious, particularly here in Australia with
is
>both (or neither) Eastern nor Western, and Southern but Northern!
>I'm not espousing political correctness, but please, when you chat,
>remember the list isn't just for your own countrymen and women!
>There, now it's off my chest, I shall go and fold myself another bra
and
>keep it to burn for another occasion!
>
>Clare Chamberlain
>Planning Officer
>Healthcare Investment Unit
>Program Purchasing
>Health Department of Western Australia
>189 Royal Street, EAST PERTH, WA 6004
>Clare.Chamberlain@health.wa.gov.au





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 12:34:15 -0400 (AST)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Name this base?

Tom Hill <tomh@groupworks.com> sez

>What's a frog base?

It's an example of a beautifully logical sequence of folds that has
AFAIK few creative possibilities (frog? iris?). Dave Brill showed me a
method which adds all the necessary creases without redundant ones -
fold a waterbomb base(!), take each loose corner to the top, then fold
the double folded edge to the centre crease on each flap. Unfold to the
WBW - all necessary creases are in place.

If you're looking to be creative, I should flip past the traditional
bases, since most of the creative possibilities have been exhausted,
with the possible exception of the blintzed fish base, which I reckon
has some mileage in it.

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk - now with RealAudio clips!





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 13:02:12 -0400 (AST)
From: Brian Cox <briancox@mb.sympatico.ca>
Subject: Re: ethnocentrism

Chamberlain, Clare wrote:
>

> I'm not espousing political correctness, but please, when you chat,
> remember the list isn't just for your own countrymen and women!
> There, now it's off my chest, I shall go and fold myself another bra and keep
     it to burn for another occasion!
> i am not espousing political correctnesss, but it seems that "the bra" is not
     just a
female thing, assuming (which is always dangerous)countrymen and women is not a
     male /
female thing. There, now that is off my chest, i shall go and fold myself
     another
J-strap and keep it to burn for another occasion!  :)





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 14:56:34 -0400 (AST)
From: Marc Kirschenbaum <contract@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: bee diagramm

At 04:24 AM 1/6/98 -0400, Frank Pelz <frank.pelz@metronet.de> wrote:
>I found in a model index the "bee by Marc Kirschenbaum, 1996 by Myer
>Gotz page 123".
>It was not possible to get some further information in book archives .
>
>Where can I get a book with the diagramms?

This book is best known as the 1996 Annual Collection, which is put out by
OrigamiUSA (www.origami-usa.org), and is available through their website.
You can also preview the model at the ftp.rug.nl/origami/midels.bin FTP
site (but buying the book will provide you with over 100 more models).

Marc





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 17:07:43 -0400 (AST)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Origami Deutschland Web Pages

On Mon, 5 Jan 1998, Joseph Wu wrote:
> >They are available via
> >     http://www.origami.net/homes/od/
> Sebastian, which site is the correct one? The URL you give above or this
> older one which still works?
> http://www.uni-mainz.de/~maulm001/od/

Both. origami.net is the primary site, but we keep a copy on uni-mainz.de
for faster access for european users. I'd rather you put the origami.net
address on your web pages. And please note that I'm the new maintainer; I
meant to write you, but somehow I forgot.

Yours, Sebastian                                       skirsch@t-online.de
                        /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 18:46:05 -0400 (AST)
From: Anne R LaVin <lavin@MIT.EDU>
Subject: a new home for origami-l?

Fellow list members,

The nice folks who have been hosting the list for us have asked me if
we might be able to move the list to another host machine.  (Seems my
name bubbled up as a possible "owner" of the list - and while I was
one of the four or so founders of the list, 'way back when, I'd not
call that an "owner"!  Can someone "own" anything like origami-l?  :)

In any case, it would be a good thing if we could move the list to
another site.  I'd be happy to host it here at MIT.  The mainframe
here (mitvma.mit.edu) runs LISTSERV software, and I'd like to suggest
that we use that, even though we get a longish hostname in the
address, and are limited to 8 characters in the actual listname.  The
other possible option - to run the list through the regular MIT
mailhub, resulting in a "@mit.edu" style address - while aesthetically
pleasing, requires someone (i.e., me) to hand-maintain the
subscription list, provides no archiving, digests or other useful
features, etc.  (It's a long story why this is so.  Any computer/email
weenies out there who want a discussion of how we do email here at
MIT, feel free to ask outside the list...)

The process would result in only a very short interruption of service
(if any) to the list, as we should be able to set up the new list
before killing off the old one.  We'd maintain the state of everyone's
subscriptions as much as possible.  (Certainly basic membership will
transfer; the digest, conceal status, etc. may be harder, but I will
check on it before doing anything.)

If folks don't like this option for some reason, then if someone else
can host the list, that would be fine with me, instead.  I have no
particular emotional attachment to where the list is run, and it would
be less fuss for me, anyway!  If we *do* want it to be run here,
though, the things we need to decide are:

 - exact name?
        About the only choice is:  origami@mitvma.mit.edu

 - administrators?
        I can do it; anyone else who'd like to can help administer
        the thing via email, but with auto subscribing
        and stuff, it should only be necessary for problems, if they
        occur.

 - archiving with email retrieval?
        I think I can set this up for us, but since the list
        has very few MIT members, I'm not sure they'll let me do this.
        How important is it?  Since several other folks are already
        archiving the list elsewhere, and adding more useful functionality
        like searching, I'm hoping it isn't that necessary, but I will
        ask.

Please tell me what you all think.  If the conversation traffic on
this gets to high (and overwhelms the actual origami-related stuff) I
can create a temporary list for folks who'd like to discuss it, and we
can go from there.

Anne R. LaVin                                 (617) 258-7940 phone
JP NET Project Director                       (617) 258-7972 fax
MIT Foreign Languages and Literatures         lavin@mit.edu
14N-238, 77 Mass Ave, Cambridge, MA 02139     http://www-japan.mit.edu/





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 20:02:55 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: Re: a new home for origami-l?

At 18:46 -0400 1998/1/06, Anne R LaVin wrote:
>The nice folks who have been hosting the list for us have asked me if
>we might be able to move the list to another host machine.  (Seems my
>name bubbled up as a possible "owner" of the list - and while I was
>one of the four or so founders of the list, 'way back when, I'd not
>call that an "owner"!  Can someone "own" anything like origami-l?  :)
>
>In any case, it would be a good thing if we could move the list to
>another site.  I'd be happy to host it here at MIT.

This sort of forces me to move a little more quickly than I had wanted to,
but as one of those people currently providing origami-l search
functionality, I'd like to volunteer to take over the list. This is not
without some hidden agendas which I will reveal now (as opposed to later as
I had originally intended).

The company I work for, DNA Productions, is in the process of developing a
new origami magazine, sort of an English answer to Quarterly ORU. This
magazine will not be published in print, but rather published on the World
Wide Web. It will obviously be a commercial venture, with some of the
revenues coming from advertising. I will be the managing editor of this
magazine.

So here's the situation: if I were to take over the mailing list, it would
be run on one of our company servers and would be administered under the
umbrella of this magazine. We are not interested in selling the membership
list to anyone for mass emailings, although any mailing list can be
subverted for that purpose anyway. What I'm saying is that we would not try
to exploit the list for commercial and/or advertising purposes. We will
occasionally use the list to announce new additions to the magazine, but,
again, that is already being done by the owners of various websites.

Those were some of the negative aspects. Here are some of the benefits.
First, the connection between the mailing list and the mailing list archive
search engine would be stronger, meaning that messages can be searched for
as soon as they are available. Second, the list would be administered by
someone who is being paid to look after it, and who has great incentive to
make sure list members are happy (since unhappy list members would have a
negative impact on the readership of the online magazine). Third, the list
would be running on a dedicated server so that it won't be impacted by any
other intensive processes (other than routing mail).

Anyway, that's the scoop. I'll have more info on this magazine within a
week. Some of you have already been contacted regarding it, and I apologise
for the delay in getting back to you all. We had some setbacks with one of
our major sponsors. Still this project is going ahead and promises to be
very exciting for all origami lovers. (Just to tease you all, we are
working towards publishing English translations of ORU articles amongst
other things. Our sister company, Fact Media International, is a world
leader in translation and localization, specialising in Japanese.) I will
be preparing a questionnaire for list members to give some of their wish
list items for this magazine. It should be ready in a few days.

So, in answer to Anne's question, yes it is possible for someone to "own"
origami-l, and we would like to be that "owner". Still, we promise to keep
the members' best interests in mind.

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 20:53:19 -0400 (AST)
From: Chris Miller <chris@ori.net>
Subject: A origami comic and also a respoonse to Re: a new home for origami-l?

Joseph Wu wrote:
>This sort of forces me to move a little more quickly than I had wanted to,
>but as one of those people currently providing origami-l search
>functionality, I'd like to volunteer to take over the list. This is not
>without some hidden agendas which I will reveal now (as opposed to later as
>I had originally intended).
>
snip
>So here's the situation: if I were to take over the mailing list, it would
>be run on one of our company servers and would be administered under the
>umbrella of this magazine. We are not interested in selling the membership
>list to anyone for mass emailings, although any mailing list can be
>subverted for that purpose anyway. What I'm saying is that we would not try
>to exploit the list for commercial and/or advertising purposes. We will
>occasionally use the list to announce new additions to the magazine, but,
>again, that is already being done by the owners of various websites.

>
>Those were some of the negative aspects. Here are some of the benefits.
>First, the connection between the mailing list and the mailing list archive
>search engine would be stronger, meaning that messages can be searched for
>as soon as they are available. Second, the list would be administered by
>someone who is being paid to look after it, and who has great incentive to
>make sure list members are happy (since unhappy list members would have a
>negative impact on the readership of the online magazine). Third, the list
>would be running on a dedicated server so that it won't be impacted by any
>other intensive processes (other than routing mail).

*snip*
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
>t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca

First i'd like to say that I felt like playing around with photoshop so i
scanned in an old origami comic i found in the actualy NEWSpaper and put it
up (knowing aol's status as not always fast, it may take awhile to get to
the page.  The page is at http://members.aol.com/chr1sm/comic.html (or
comic.htm... i'm not sure).. I thought it was kind of funny, reply to the
list with any comments, unless they are bad ones. :)

And to the reply of the list relocation, I personally think Joseph Wu would
make a good host of this list.  He is pretty much the most frequent poster
on this list, and I'm sure he would be able to handle all of it easily (and
i don't mind too much advertising, ad long as it doesn't outnumber the other
posts.)

 - Chris Miller.





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 21:12:21 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: Re: a respoonse to Re: a new home for origami-l?

>And to the reply of the list relocation, I personally think Joseph Wu would
>make a good host of this list.  He is pretty much the most frequent poster
>on this list, and I'm sure he would be able to handle all of it easily (and
>i don't mind too much advertising, ad long as it doesn't outnumber the other
>posts.)

No, no, no. This mailing list will not be used for advertising. The
occasional announcement regarding updates, but no advertising per se. And
I'm hardly the most frequent poster to this list!

----------------------------------------------------------------
Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:20:17 -0400 (AST)
From: Unafolder <Unafolder@aol.com>
Subject: Re: ethnocentrism

I too, plan to fold many paper bras,

and sell them in deflated markets at a discount substitute for the expensive
real items.  Origami and Capitalism

by the Unafolder





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:24:02 -0400 (AST)
From: Douglas Zander <dzander@solaria.sol.net>
Subject: Joseph Wu's proposal

Joseph Wu,

1) Would this relocation (to your company) mean that we would have better
software that would not kick us off origami-l so frequently?

2) Also, I am wondering what, if any, policing you would do on the list?
(for example, if someone gets out of hand and a fight breaks out)

3) Re: the WWW Origami Magazine; is this free to the web community?
(paid for by advertising totally?)





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 22:42:45 -0400 (AST)
From: Kenny1414 <Kenny1414@aol.com>
Subject: Re: a new home for origami-l?

Aloha,

For what it's worth, I'd like to publicly cast my small vote in favor of
allowing Mr. Joseph Wu to assume the responsibility of hosting origami-l. I
rather like the idea of the list being supported, if possible, by an origami-
related web-magazine.

And thank you,  Ms. Anne R LaVin, for helping start the list, and for
generously offering it a new home.

Sincere apologies for cluttering your mailboxes, people, but I did want to
register support for gently moving origami-l to a new server, since it appears
to be outgrowing its old server.

Kenneth Kawamura
kenny1414@aol.com





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 23:05:41 -0400 (AST)
From: Pat Slider <slider@stonecutter.com>
Subject: Re: a new home for origami-l?

..and I would vote for keeping the list independent. Gosh, MIT isn't so
bad is it? Anyway, I don't see that the "benefits" outweigh the negatives
of the list being tied in with a commercial operation -- even one as noble
and wonderful as an online origami magazine.

pat slider
slider@stonecutter.com

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Pat Slider
STONECUTTER
slider@stonecutter.com





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 23:10:00 -0400 (AST)
From: Mike & Janet Hamilton <Mikeinnj@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: A origami comic and also a respoonse to Re: a new home for
 origami-l?

Chris Miller wrote:

> First i'd like to say that I felt like playing around with photoshop so i
> scanned in an old origami comic i found in the actualy NEWSpaper and put it
> up

What was the title of this comic?  Also, what newspaper was it in?

--
mailto:Mikeinnj@concentric.net
http://www.concentric.net/~Mikeinnj/





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 23:39:56 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: RE: a new home for origami-l?

On Tuesday, January 06, 1998 7:06 PM, Pat Slider [SMTP:slider@stonecutter.com]
wrote:
> ..and I would vote for keeping the list independent. Gosh, MIT isn't so
> bad is it? Anyway, I don't see that the "benefits" outweigh the negatives
> of the list being tied in with a commercial operation -- even one as noble
> and wonderful as an online origami magazine.

And that is why I laid all of the cards on the table.

But I'd like to clarify (and to have clarified) a few points. MIT is not bad at
all. It was never my intention to imply that. And I know that if Anne were in
charge, she'd do a great job. But she did say that she'd be willing to do the
hosting if no one else wanted to do it, so I thought it would be fair to put in
another bid.

As for the "negatives" of being tied in with a commercial operation, could you
please explain what those would be?

Joseph Wu, Origami Artist & Multimedia Producer
T: (604)730-0306 x 105    F: (604)732-7331   E: josephwu@ultranet.ca
W: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





Date: Tue, 06 Jan 1998 23:40:34 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Subject: RE: Joseph Wu's proposal (New home for origami-l)

On Tuesday, January 06, 1998 6:24 PM, Douglas Zander
[SMTP:dzander@solaria.sol.net] wrote:
> 1) Would this relocation (to your company) mean that we would have better
> software that would not kick us off origami-l so frequently?

That should be the case, but I can't say for sure. I do not administer the mail
servers personally, so I will have to discuss this with the administrator.

> 2) Also, I am wondering what, if any, policing you would do on the list?
> (for example, if someone gets out of hand and a fight breaks out)

Has this happened before? Certainly there is no policing being done at present,
other than what happens when people take it upon themselves to say something. I
don't really see why that should change. We will only administer the mailing
list, much like NSTN.CA is doing now, and will not control the users of the
list in any way.

> 3) Re: the WWW Origami Magazine; is this free to the web community?
> (paid for by advertising totally?)

This is our initial plan, yes. Well, there will be some other sources of
funding besides advertising in the magazine, but subscription fees should not
figure into it.

Joseph Wu, Origami Artist & Multimedia Producer
T: (604)730-0306 x 105    F: (604)732-7331   E: josephwu@ultranet.ca
W: http://www.origami.vancouver.bc.ca





Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 00:14:24 -0400 (AST)
From: Joyce Owen <joyceowen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: a new home for origami-l?

If I have a vote I choose Joseph Wu.

Joyce Owen

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 00:46:59 -0400 (AST)
From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>
Subject: NOR: ethnocentrism

Personally, I get reminded of the down side of Asian
currency and stockmarket events as our California papers
tend to put photos on the business page of distraught
looking Asian stock traders, etc. So I guess I regard
the adjustment in the price of Japanese books and other
goods in the "every cloud has a silver lining" manner,
or "every ill wind blows some ship to home port".

Here in northern California, we had disasterous floods
last New Year's (1997); even two closely related families
were involved (evacuated with cats dogs & kids for days)
and one decided the prudent thing to do was sell out at
a loss and move somewhere safer, all causing a great deal
of grief and heartache. On the other hand, the floods
resulted in enough engineering business to keep my
employers going for 5 years or so...

valerie





Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 00:52:26 -0400 (AST)
From: ROCKYGROD <ROCKYGROD@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  Re: epcot origami

What is Shizu??





Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 00:57:59 -0400 (AST)
From: ROCKYGROD <ROCKYGROD@aol.com>
Subject: Re:  RE: "The Mask"? (New book by FUSE Tomoko)

Sasuga has the FUSE MASK book now.





Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 01:02:51 -0400 (AST)
From: pmiller <pmiller@nicom.com>
Subject: Japanese Translation

I recently purchased the Flowers of Japan in Origami by Momotani from
Fascinating Folds.  It is in Japanese with the Japanese but has both the
Japanese and English names of the models.  Is there anywhere where I can
get the Translation of the text for the figures from Japanese to English?
Most folds look pretty self explanatory, but it doesn't hurt to have the
English translation.





Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 01:20:13 -0400 (AST)
From: Perry Bailey <pbailey@mtayr.heartland.net>
Subject: Re: a new home for origami-l?

I wish to state catagoricaly and for the record that I am firmly and totaly
uncommitted in this matter, and for that matter if elected I will not serve
lists, or list serves in any way, what so ever. In addition I feel that if
Joseph is willing to be committed we should promptly commit him and get on
with serving lists!
Have I made my self  perfectly clear, as I certainly do wish to further
obfuscate the matter.   As they say in the military anyone who volunteers,
should promptly be given whatever job for which they volunteered for, along
with good psychiatrical care and death benefits.  Besides we like Joseph!

Having wasted this much time, I think I'll go take my pills and go to bed
now, thank you!
Perry

Paper, scissors, stone.....
Origami, Kirigami, bludgeon....
pbailey@mtayr.heartland.net





Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 01:37:42 -0400 (AST)
From: Joyce Owen <joyceowen@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: a new home for origami-l?

Perry said:
>Have I made my self  perfectly clear, as I certainly do wish to further
>obfuscate the matter.   As they say in the military anyone who
volunteers,
>should promptly be given whatever job for which they volunteered for,
along
>with good psychiatrical care and death benefits.  Besides we like
Joseph!

Absolutely!

(I've already taken my pills tonight Perry)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 01:54:45 -0400 (AST)
From: "J. Robert A. Lemieux" <rlemieux@ma.ultranet.com>
Subject: Re: epcot origami

> What is Shizu??

Shizu Imported Japanese Paper

http://www.shizu.com/index.html

A visit to the above location should answer
your question.

Bob





Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 06:58:49 -0400 (AST)
From: Susan Dittmar <dittmar@ph-cip.uni-koeln.de>
Subject: Re: bee diagramm

> I found in a model index the "bee by Marc Kirschenbaum, 1996 by Myer
> Gotz page 123".
> It was not possible to get some further information in book archives .
>
> Where can I get a book with the diagramms?

Try http://www.rug.nl/rugcis/rc/ftp/origami/models.bin/bee/index.htm,
from the title it sounds like the same model. I did not fold it yet, but
it will most probably be the next model to do for me.

Susan Dittmar   (dittmar@ph-cip.uni-koeln.de)





Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 08:57:13 -0400 (AST)
From: Gary Wayne Vanderbur <gwv@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: a new home for origami-l?

Hello, fellow folders.

I would like to add my thanks to Ms. LaVin for the wonderful time put in,
effort put forth and work done as administrator of the Origami Mailing List.
I have thoroughly enjoyed being a part of the list and reaping immeasurable
benefits and enjoyment from the postings on it.

I would further like to cast my "vote" in having the list pass to the
"right, honorable" Mr. Joseph Wu based on his very well stated reasons and
plans.

It makes good sense to have the list coupled to an organization that will be
producing an Origami magazine as well as on a server where a good search
engine already resides.  I further believe Mr. Wu's personal interest in
Origami will be a good check and balance against his business interests and
will help to keep the list as an open and uncommercialized entity.

Mr. Wu, I am excited about the prospects of your administering the list and
am quite interested in DNA Production's Origami magazine.  Please add me to
the list of people to whom you will be sending further information about the
magazine.

Thanks to all and happy folding,
Vandy

Gary W. Vanderbur         Home:  gwv@mindspring.com
Durham, NC USA            Work:  Gary.Vanderbur@wg.com
                                           ICQ#:   909420 or Excite PAL
"Born of the Spirit; Built on the Rock!"

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Wu <josephwu@ultranet.ca>
Date: Tuesday, January 06, 1998 7:03 PM
Subject: Re: a new home for origami-l?

>At 18:46 -0400 1998/1/06, Anne R LaVin wrote:
>>The nice folks who have been hosting the list for us have asked me if
>>we might be able to move the list to another host machine.

< snip>

>So, in answer to Anne's question, yes it is possible for someone to "own"
>origami-l, and we would like to be that "owner". Still, we promise to keep
>the members' best interests in mind.
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------
>Joseph Wu, Producer, DNA Productions Inc.
>t:604.730.0306 x 105     f: 604.732.7331     e: joseph@dna.bc.ca





Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 09:06:59 -0400 (AST)
From: Bernie Cosell <bernie@fantasyfarm.com>
Subject: Re: a new home for origami-l?

On  6 Jan 98 at 20:03, Joseph Wu wrote:

> At 18:46 -0400 1998/1/06, Anne R LaVin wrote:
> >The nice folks who have been hosting the list for us have asked me if
> >we might be able to move the list to another host machine.  (Seems my
> >name bubbled up as a possible "owner" of the list - and while I was
> >one of the four or so founders of the list, 'way back when, I'd not
> >call that an "owner"!  Can someone "own" anything like origami-l?  :)
> >
> >In any case, it would be a good thing if we could move the list to
> >another site.  I'd be happy to host it here at MIT.
>
> This sort of forces me to move a little more quickly than I had wanted to,
> but as one of those people currently providing origami-l search
> functionality, I'd like to volunteer to take over the list.  ...
>
> The company I work for, DNA Productions, is in the process of developing a
> new origami magazine, ...

> So here's the situation: if I were to take over the mailing list, it would
> be run on one of our company servers and would be administered under the
> umbrella of this magazine.

I'd be inclined to vote for Mr. Wu's proposal.  I have nothing
against either Anne or MIT's Listserv, but Joseph has proven to have
a LOT of energy to devote to the on-line presence of origami [if only
we could get him participating in the newsgroup...:o)] and I think
the list would benefit to have someone that active being 'close' to
its administration [if something goes wrong, Joseph will almost
certainly notice instantly and equally almost certainly ensure that
it gets fixed posthaste].

In terms of the actual list operation, the location is probably
irrelevant: listservs are listservs [except with they're real picky
like NSTN's...:o)] and so we list-folk probably won't notice: one
change to 'origami-l' in our address books and everything else
should be transparent.  The archive is already not-colocated with the
listserv so that's not an issue.

In terms of commercial problems, I doubt that'll be an issue no
matter what DNA wants: far as I know there has -never- been a
pay-to-play email list anywhere on the internet any time in its
history, and I doubt VERY seriously they'd even consider trying such
a thing, so the mailing list will certainly continue unimpeded.
I trust that DNA will not have their listserv tack an 'ad' onto each
posting to the list [yes, listservs can do that: when you set up a
list the admin can specify things like "appen this to every
message"]; reassurance on this would be appreciated.

As for DNA's other activities, I don't think that'll affect
the mailing list one way or the other, and so don't figure into the
discussion as far as I'm concerned.

> ... We are not interested in selling the membership
> list to anyone for mass emailings, although any mailing list can be
> subverted for that purpose anyway.

This is not correct.  A properly set up and run mailing list on top
of a properly configured 'sendmail' *CAN* protect its list of
addresses.  If this isn't true at DNA they can/should be able to get
updated copies of their software and configure it carefully and this
problem will go away....

> ...  What I'm saying is that we would not try
> to exploit the list for commercial and/or advertising purposes.

This is, nonetheless, an important assurance: if you properly
configure your software you can protect the address list from
outsiders, but [obviously] there is no way to protect the address
list from the *administrators*...

> .. We will
> occasionally use the list to announce new additions to the magazine, but,
> again, that is already being done by the owners of various websites.

Indeed, and such announcements are SOP [and welcome as far as I'm
concerned] on origami-l: we constantly get announcements of books,
newletters, new stores, new types of paper, etc....  and there's no
problem... if DNA can come up with a replacement for ORU and want to
announce it on origami-l, I, for one, will be delighted to hear about
it [and note that they could do so anyway, regardless of where the
list is hosted, just as we get notices of new books published, the
latest arrivals at Sausuga, etc...].

So, after all that, to repeat: I'd say let's move the list to DNA..

  /Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
mailto:bernie@fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--





Date: Wed, 07 Jan 1998 09:58:44 -0400 (AST)
From: Jeff Kerwood <jkerwood@usaor.net>
Subject: Re: a new home for origami-l?

First - Thanks Anne for all your efforts, they are appreciated.

=======================

Just two questions Joseph.

1) Who has final say in policy about what is posted here - are all
sponsors/advertisers aware of the commitments you are making to us about
keeping this a "no-pressure zone". And if it comes head2head between you
and them - who will have the final say?

2) I believe you said that email is administered by others at DNA. What,
that has to do with the listserver/email/??? setup and administration,
would you be doing verses what others would do? If there is a problem, can
you just fix it, or do you need to track someone down and beg for a few
minutes from their busy schedule and hope they can get a chance to look at
it sometime soon?

If ALL parties are agreed that we will not get flooded with advertisements
or asked for fees, and you don't need or have secured promises of
cooperation from other technically involved parties - then you have my full
support.  Go for it and good luck.

=======================

Good day,
Jeff Kerwood
jkerwood@usaor.net
