




Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 12:52:09 -0300 (ADT)
From: Lisa Hodsdon <Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com>
Subject: Cutting Paper [was Re: Origami Entropy]

I haven't tried this, but it occurs to me that the problem with cutting
large sheets with a straightedge & knife is having the paper and/or
straightedge slip. Would it be possible to use some kind of clamp to
attach the straightedge to the cutting mat? You would need
something stronger than paper clips; binder clips might work or
some sort of woodworking clamp. You will still need to hold the paper
in place, but at least you would no longer need to worry about the
straightedge moving.

Lisa
Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 14:26:41 -0300 (ADT)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Origami Entropy

On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Cathy Palmer-Lister wrote:
> AHHH........now I understand!  50x70 is not square.........

No, indeed it isn't. :-)

> that sort of
> paper one can find but around here it's very expensive.  I folded a dragon
> from a 9$ sheet and it flopped.

Hm. $9 is more expensive than any kind of paper I've ever seen here (save
some kind of passepartout carton, but you can't fold with that stuff), so
I'm interested in what kind of paper this might be.

> I can't afford too many mistakes like that.

Hm. I'd also think that $9 was too expensive. As I stated in another mail,
most of the paper I use is between $1 and $3 a sheet. Try looking around
for cheaper kinds of paper. Some thin kinds of watercolor carton are very
good for wetfolding. John Marcolina has also told me that elephant hide is
apparently sold under the brand name "Wyndstone Marble" in the USA.

> Which reminds me---After the discussion on rotary
> cutters awhile back, I ran out and bought one, but I have not had much luck
> with it.  It has a tendency to waver.  any suggestions on how to get better
> use of it?

I use my rotary cutter mostly for cutting foil-backed paper, because any
other kind of cutter would inevitably rip the foil. For other kinds of
paper, I usually use a normal papercutter.

Another thing that helps is a bookbinder's ruler. (At least that's how
it's called here.) It's a steel ruler without scale, 50cm long and 5cm
wide.  It's edge is 5mm thick, so the rotary cutter is unlikely to cut
into the ruler. And, in addition to that, the ruler is quite heavy, that
will help it stay in place without problems. (I also have this in a 100cm
long variety, which I use less often.)

Yours, Sebastian               sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de,skirsch@t-online.de





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 14:48:00 -0300 (ADT)
From: MSPARKS@pinkertons.com (MATTHEW SPARKS 05-025)
Subject: RE: Origami Sighting

Speaking of origami sightings in fantasy books,
"Interesting Times" one of the discworld series by Terry Pratchett
has a character Named Lord Hong.
He is described as doing everthing perfectly... and "when he folded paper
     every
crease was perfect. Imagintive, original,  and definitly perfect., Lord   Hong
     had
long ago ceased pursuing perfection because he had already nailed it up   in
a dungeon somewhere."

While reading a book "Every time he finished a page he ripped it out and,
     while
reading the next page, carefully folded the paper into the shape of a
chrysanthemum."

and while disciplining a subordinate,
Lord Hong smiled.
"Oh yes, I recall I said, did I not that I would neither say nor write   any
     order
for your death? And I must keep my word, otherwise what am I?"
He folded the last crease and opened his hands, putting the little paper
decoration on the  lacquered table beside him.
Herb and the Guard stared at it.
"Guard...  take him away," said Lord Hong.
It was a marvellously constructed paper figure of a man.
But there didn't seem to have been enough paper for a head.

 ----------
From:  origami-l[SMTP:origami-l@nstn.ca]
Sent:  Monday, September 08, 1997 6:40 PM
To:  Multiple recipients of list
Subject:  Re: Origami Sighting

At 09:24 AM 9/6/97 -0300, you wrote:
>On Fri, 5 Sep 1997, Mike and Janet Hamilton wrote:
>
>how about origami sightings in literature?  charles de lint, a writer of
>urban fantasy, has a collection of stories called _dreams underfoot_.    in
>one of the shorts, there's an eccentric named "paperjack."  he's a
>homeless individual who carries bright origami paper with him wherever   he
>goes.  he's seemingly mute.  passerbys request an animal, and he makes
>them one.  sometimes, though, they ask for a fortune, in which case he
>uses a fortune teller... his fortunes often have an eerie way of coming
>true...
>

Here's a (probably famous already) instance.

A character in Anne McCaffrey's _Rowan_ series (no longer a trilogy)   makes a
hobby of Origami. Models appear throughout the books, but there aren't   any
really pivotal uses.
 -Jeff <jmgoff@concentric.net>





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 15:07:03 -0300 (ADT)
From: jeffry kerwood <jkjeff@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: CUTTERS (Was: Origami Entropy)

>From: "Daddy-o D'gou" about cutting with rotary mat and templates:
==========

>guillotine cutters tend to drag the paper as
>they cut.  I have yet to personally come across one where the line >up
bar is
>square to the cutting edge, but maybe I've just been unlucky.

I have tried them too and found myself =ly unlucky.

=======

>Like computer monitors, paper cutters (and maybe mat cutters, I haven't
>researched those) go up in price very quickly when their size goes up
>by a little bit.  Adding a few inches of cutting length can cost a
>lot.

Very true with mat cutters as well.

========

>The second limiting factor for a paper cutter (again, I can't speak for
>mat cutters) is how long of a piece you can cut.  This sounds kinda
>weird, and I thought it was too, before I bought my paper cutter.  The
>paper cutter I have can make a cut up to about 16" wide.  The bed of
>the cutter (it is a rotary cutter) is only about 11-12" long.  If I
>want to cut a square less than 12" on a side, no problem.  If I want to
>cut a 16" square, big hassle.  Because the bed isn't long enough, I
>can't use the markings on it to make the square.

Even more so for mat cutters, the measuring bed is only about 8" where
the cutting edge is 30+". Perhaps a measuring bed extension of some kind
could be thought of.???

======

>If you want to cut large squares, you have about three kinds of
choices:
>    a) a large length cutter - very expensive, but otherwise OK.
>    b) templates
>    c) manual measurement and alignment.

I would suggest a 4th: d) contrive a bed extension for a "long cut"
short cutting bed device.

=============

>Manual measurement and alignment can be made a lot easier with a
>grided self-healing cutting mat, but I have always found this method
>to be very tedious and error prone.

Me too

=============

Jeff Kerwood (JKJEFF@HOTMAIL.COM)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 15:12:14 -0300 (ADT)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Expensive paper(was Re: Origami Entropy)

Could we PLEASE use relevant subject lines?

On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Sebastian Marius Kirsch wrote:

> Hm. $9 is more expensive than any kind of paper I've ever seen here (save
> some kind of passepartout carton, but you can't fold with that stuff), so
> I'm interested in what kind of paper this might be.

There are all sorts of handmade papers that cost more than that per sheet.

> Hm. I'd also think that $9 was too expensive. As I stated in another mail,
> most of the paper I use is between $1 and $3 a sheet. Try looking around
> for cheaper kinds of paper. Some thin kinds of watercolor carton are very
> good for wetfolding. John Marcolina has also told me that elephant hide is
> apparently sold under the brand name "Wyndstone Marble" in the USA.

Wyndstone Marble is an elephant hide IMITATION, not real elephant hide
paper. Fascinating Folds carries elephant hide, though. Other papers to
try include Canson's watercolour papers, and also various types of
calligraphy parchment papers.

          Joseph Wu           It's your privilege as an artist to inflict
  origami@planet.datt.co.jp   the pain of creativity on yourself. We can
 Webmaster, the Origami Page  teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach
http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami you how YOU paint. There's More Than One Way
                              To Do It. Have the appropriate amount of fun.
                                          --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 16:35:35 -0300 (ADT)
From: John Marcolina <jmarcoli@cisco.com>
Subject: Elephant Hide Controversy (was Re: Origami Entropy)

At 03:12 PM 9/9/97 -0300, Joseph Wu wrote:

>Wyndstone Marble is an elephant hide IMITATION, not real elephant hide
>paper.
(snip)

I think not, however I would love to be proved wrong! I've done a little
detective work on this, and recently I Emailed Sebastian in Germany in hopes
he can help solve this mystery once and for all. I haven't heard back from
him yet, but I think I'll throw it out to you all to see if someone else has
any thoughts on this.

In brief, here is what I know:
I'd heard of both Wyndstone Marble and Elephant Hide being good for
wet-folding, but I had only been able to obtain Wyndstone Marble locally
where I live. Robert Lang had stated a while back that he had obtained
Elephant Hide paper in Germany some years ago, and he liked it better than
Marble for the following reasons: it was slightly thinner, it folded
*better*, and it came in colors he liked better (i.e. dark brown). I believe
he said it was made by Zanders company (correct me if I'm wrong, Robert).
Also, he said the E. H. paper smelled like moldy socks when you wet it!

Well, the Wyndstone Marble paper I had been using certainly seemed different
- no bad smell when wet, and no brown color available, at least from my
source. Then I heard that Kim's Crane and Fascinating Folds were going to
carry Elephant Hide paper. Yay! I ordered some from both, and when it
arrived, I found it to be IDENTICAL in every way to the Marble I had been
using. Same exact colors, same thickness, same exact look, no sock smell
(although the slight not-unpleasant odor was the same as my Marble).

Thus, I determined these papers were indeed the same. But how? I talked with
Kim of Kim's Crane, who said she got her paper from Zanders of Germany. Then
I called Wyndstone Paper in Chicago and talked to someone who told me that
Wyndstone doesn't make their Marble paper, but import it from - Zanders of
Germany!

This, of course, does not explain why the paper Robert described was
different, unless Zanders had changed their recipe at some point after he
bought it.

Also, Sebastian mentioned that the Elephant Hide he uses comes in a
*zillion* colors, *including* brown and black, which Marble (and the
Elephant Hide papers available from F.F./Kim's Crane) do not. The colors
I've been able to find are red, blues (dark and light), greens (dark and
light), greys (a few different shades), white, buff, and mauve.

So that's what I know. Have I thoroughly confused everyone. Good. Me too!

I welcome (beg for?) further comments by others.

John (This is drivin' me nuts) Marcolina
jmarcoli@cisco.com
San Jose, CA.





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 17:13:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: Matthias Gutfeldt <Tanjit@bboxbbs.ch>
Subject: NO: Pop-up

Hi all,

yesterday I bought the german translation of
The pop-up book by Paul Jackson, and today my
desk is cluttered with all kind of weird popping-up
devices :-). Looks like I'm hooked on yet another
hobby...
It's definitely not Origami, but for anybody who
loves paperwork this is great!

Matthias, all popped up





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 18:20:39 -0300 (ADT)
From: Matthias Gutfeldt <Tanjit@bboxbbs.ch>
Subject: Elephant hide (was:Re: Expensive paper(was Re: Origami Entropy))

Joseph Wu wrote:
> Could we PLEASE use relevant subject lines?

We could... but it wouldn't be the ZEN thing to do;-).

> Wyndstone Marble is an elephant hide IMITATION, not real elephant hide
> paper. Fascinating Folds carries elephant hide, though.

After all this talk about elephant hide, I still don't
have a clue what it is. Or did I miss the explanation?

Matthias, clueless as usual...





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 18:26:35 -0300 (ADT)
From: pat slider <slider@stonecutter.com>
Subject: re: cutting paper.

Just a few short comments.

Dick Blick (they are online now at www.dickblick.com) carries a large
selection of framemaker's mat cutters.

I've attached those little adhesive sandpaper circles to my
templates, and these seem to solve the slipping problems. Someone
once posted that they mar the paper but this hasn't happened to me
yet. (But then I don't slide my templates around either.) You can
find these at quilting stores where they sell rotary cutters, rulers,
etc..

pat slider
slider@stonecutter.com





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 18:32:56 -0300 (ADT)
From: pat slider <slider@stonecutter.com>
Subject: Another paper store.

Found another source of paper, origami and specialty. Quite a
tempting selection but I haven't tried ordering yet. The store is in
Hawaii but the shipping seems quite reasonable.

http://members.aol.com/PaperPalet/index.html

Found this via some rubber stamping links by the way. A lot of the
rubber stamp suppliers are selling interesting papers these days.

pat slider
slider@stonecutter.com





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 18:41:27 -0300 (ADT)
From: Janell Jarman <jarman@digitalpla.net>
Subject: Re: Elephant hide (was:Re: Expensive paper(was Re: Origami Entropy))

Matthias Gutfeldt wrote:

> After all this talk about elephant hide, I still don't
> have a clue what it is. Or did I miss the explanation?

You know...kill an elephant...skin it...Elephant Hide!

Sorry...couldn't resist!

Janell





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 18:46:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: MSPARKS@pinkertons.com (MATTHEW SPARKS 05-025)
Subject: re: RE: RE: Origami Entropy

Can you explain to me what Origami Entropy means....have I missed   something
while I was away......Please someone, explain.....Dorigami

On 9/9 Simon said (so we all have to play along...:) )
I have long lamented the tendency of all my models - no matter how   sharply
I make the creases - to slowly unfold themselves over the course of a few
days. This seems to occur regardless of the type of paper I use or the   scale
     of the model.

Entropy (noun) The hypothetical tendancy for an organized system to   change
     over time to a disorganized state.

Origamic Entropy (noun) the hypothetical tendancy for complex folds to   return
     to being a flat square of paper.

Origamic yportne (noun) The documented tendancy for flat pieces of paper   to
     become complex lumps of paper
 resembling small asteroids while I try a complex fold.

Matthew Makaala Sparks                          Desk (818) 380-8712
Senior Technical Support Specialist             Fax  (818) 380-8677
Pinkerton Security & Investigation Services
15910 Ventura Blvd.; Suite 900
Encino, CA  91436                               Ham Radio KE6GVI
  email = MSparks@Pinkertons.com
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Say "Plugh"...                                 "XYZZY"





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 19:14:06 -0300 (ADT)
From: Kristine Tomlinson <ktomlinson@platinum.com>
Subject: Re: Horaizan (Long)

Hello,

Having just returned from vacation ( to find my hard disk unavailable), I
was thrilled to finally get to my digests and read of Jim Sakoda's success
in locating Horaizan in one of his dictionaries.  Thank-you so much for the
information.  I was looking for the Taoist connection and it is clearly
stated there.  The description matches Isao Honda's "Noshi" horaizan
gomashio very well.  The base is a diaper fold with the triangle pointing
down. By folding in the horizontal points and squash folding them, two
preliminary bases can be created from which the tortoise and crane
emerge (with cuts).  The pointed base is then folded up to create the
sacred mountain Jim's book refers to.  A very simple and nice model.
According to my research, when Buddhism was introduced to China,
Taoism adapted and expanded its idea of heaven -- there were 82 of
them (!) -- so once again, it's nice to find a concrete reference to Honda's
noshi.

A dream I have is of taking some of the extra paper in the Treasure Ship
to create a sail upon which the horaizan model would be folded.  (I gave
it some thought, but got a headache and stopped :-)  This fantasy model
would copy a kimono print in the "Japanese Book of Design" showing the
Treasure Ship with a Tortoise and Crane on the sail.  Maybe some of you
more clever folders are up to the challenge?

In the meantime, I have turned up references to the island (but not
"horiazan" by name) in a book on Japanese gardening. It's slightly off
topic, but some of you may find the additional information of interest.  We
certainly have discussed cranes and tortoise symbolism before :-).
Since the gardens have been added to over time, we can't use their
dates with certainty for our origami model, but it is always interesting to
see overlap of this type and if enough cross-medium information is
gathered, we may be able to see trends that might help date origami in a
broad way.  Notice that these references are Zen Buddhist, not Taoist.
All gardens are in Kyoto.

Early Chinese Garden Influences in Japanese Gardens

"The crane and turtle shapes come from an old Chinese myth regarding
the island of the immortals: Far off in the western seas lie islands
supported on the backs of giant turtles (figs. 2.12 and 6.13).  Here the
immortals dwell in eternal bliss accompanied by large cranes who carry
them about. " [we've seen this origami image before!] "Appropriately
shaped garden islands and stone groupings, usually found in a set (the
turtle is yang, the crane yin), are particularly auspicious garden forms
that have come to mean long life."  It goes on to say Emperor Wu used
built islands to try and lore immortals to his garden. p. 160.

Saihoji (1339) -- a Zen garden has a "rock composition, this one in the
form of a turtle, recalling the Chinese legend of the mystic islands where
immortal beings dwelt on islands supported on the backs of huge turtles
.." p. 18

Daisen-in (1513) -- a Zen garden whose "crane and turtle islands ... are
symbols of longevity of the type particularly favored in temple gardens
supported by the warrior class."  p. 70. [And we know they liked to fold.]

Sambo-in (1598) -- a Shingon-shu Buddhist sect garden. The text states
that "The crane and turtle islands found in the pond are also standard
garden forms."  p. 82.

Source: Mitchell Bring and Josse Wayembergh. Japanese Gardens:
Design and Meaning. NY, etc.: McGraw-Hill Book Co., (c1981).

Kristine Tomlinson
ktomlinson@platinum.com
Waltham, MA, USA





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 20:07:29 -0300 (ADT)
From: Cathy Palmer-Lister <cathypl@generation.net>
Subject: Re: London

At 10:05 AM 1997-09-09 -0300, you wrote:
>Dear Richard,
>This is the first time I've replied to a message on the list, so if I do
>something wrong, please be patient.  I have no idea how you do those little
>quotations in replies, so I'm just sending this out into the blue, hoping for
>the best--computer illiterate!  Anyway, thanks for the reply about places to
>sook for paper, books, etc. in London.  I'll e-mail to my friend immediately.
> Pat Erickson
>

And add my thanks to that also.  As it happens, I will be in London in March.

                                        Cathy





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 20:16:34 -0300 (ADT)
From: Cathy Palmer-Lister <cathypl@generation.net>
Subject: Re: Origami Entropy

.....................Manual measurement and alignment can be made a lot
easier with a
>gridded self-healing cutting mat, but I have always found this method
>to be very tedious and error prone.  Something seems to slip and I my
>"squares" get one or more goofed up corners.

I've been using this for the last few months.  I love it, but as you say,
things will keep slipping.  Now and then I ruin a sheet of paper.  Luckily,
it's not usually a total waste, I can always use a little square for
something or other.

We have an enormous paper cutter at school, but it cuts everything at a
slight slant.  The two or three smaller ones are no better.  In fact, I have
yet to meet a guillotine of any sort that could cut a square, heads and
fingers, maybe, but not squares.  BTW, those cutters are the biggest cause
of accidents in our school commisssion.

>
>More info than I thought I'd write, hope it is useful!
>
>-D'gou

Certainly, it's useful!  And thanks very much.

                                        Cathy





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 20:35:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: Cathy Palmer-Lister <cathypl@generation.net>
Subject: Re: Cutting Paper [was Re: Origami Entropy]

the slipping straightedge is in fact the problem, not to mention the
possibility of the knife jumping over it and taking a slice of my fingers
with it.  There must be a way of clamping things, but the how escapes me.
Everytime I think of something that might work, I run into some other
problem such as the paper twisting slightly, or the need for extra hands, or
the clamps lifting the mat so it doesn't lie flat.  Right now templates are
my best bet.  I just got a pack of clear plastic squares that were
collecting dust in a school starage cupboard.  Nobody knows where they came
from or what they were for, but I of course decided they were useful to me!
The thing is, I now have to find time to go through the pile checking them
for squareness.  There has to be at least one real square among them!
Failing that, I shall order the templates recommended earlier on the list.

                                                                        Cathy

At 12:52 PM 1997-09-09 -0300, you wrote:
>
>I haven't tried this, but it occurs to me that the problem with cutting
>large sheets with a straightedge & knife is having the paper and/or
>straightedge slip. Would it be possible to use some kind of clamp to
>attach the straightedge to the cutting mat? You would need
>something stronger than paper clips; binder clips might work or
>some sort of woodworking clamp. You will still need to hold the paper
>in place, but at least you would no longer need to worry about the
>straightedge moving.
>
>Lisa
>Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 20:47:15 -0300 (ADT)
From: Cathy Palmer-Lister <cathypl@generation.net>
Subject: rotary cutters etc

At 02:28 PM 1997-09-09 -0300, you wrote:

>
>Hm. $9 is more expensive than any kind of paper I've ever seen here (save
>some kind of passepartout carton, but you can't fold with that stuff), so
>I'm interested in what kind of paper this might be.

Sorry, I forget the name of it.  I got it at the Japanese Paper Place in
Montreal.  I will keep losing my head in there....so I try to keep out of
it! They have such beautiful papers.

>
>Hm. I'd also think that $9 was too expensive. As I stated in another mail,
>most of the paper I use is between $1 and $3 a sheet.

I do mostly use cheaper papers, but now and then I splurge.  You also have
to keep in mind that Canada is not a cheap place to live.  If a book costs
10$ US  it will cost me 20$ to order it.  Shops that import have to put
there profit margins on top of that, so hobbies get expensive.

>
>I use my rotary cutter mostly for cutting foil-backed paper, because any
>other kind of cutter would inevitably rip the foil.

That's what persuaded me to get the rotary cutter.  It does a better job on
foils and light papers, but I have trouble keeping it straight.

>Another thing that helps is a bookbinder's ruler. (At least that's how
>it's called here.) It's a steel ruler without scale, 50cm long and 5cm
>wide.  It's edge is 5mm thick, so the rotary cutter is unlikely to cut
>into the ruler. And, in addition to that, the ruler is quite heavy, that
>will help it stay in place without problems. (I also have this in a 100cm
>long variety, which I use less often.)

that sounds like a good idea.  I'll have to check it out.

                        Cathy





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:08:10 -0300 (ADT)
From: Cathy Palmer-Lister <cathypl@generation.net>
Subject: Re: Elephant hide (was:Re: Expensive paper(was Re: Origami

At 06:22 PM 1997-09-09 -0300, you wrote:

>> Wyndstone Marble is an elephant hide IMITATION, not real elephant hide
>> paper. Fascinating Folds carries elephant hide, though.
>
>After all this talk about elephant hide, I still don't
>have a clue what it is. Or did I miss the explanation?
>
>
>Matthias, clueless as usual...
>

I'm clueless, also, but I find it intrigueing---What does it LOOK like??
Texture?  Patterns?

                                                Cathy





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 21:25:56 -0300 (ADT)
From: pat slider <slider@stonecutter.com>
Subject: re:cutting paper

while reading this thread I keep thinking of that picture of
Yoshizawa (in "Origami Masterpieces") cutting paper with a big
Japanese knife and a 2" x 4"  piece of lumber (or its metric
equivalent).

perhaps it's a more enjoyable method....

pat slider
slider@stonecutter.com





Date: Tue, 09 Sep 1997 23:57:31 -0300 (ADT)
From: "James M. Sakoda" <James_Sakoda@brown.edu>
Subject: Re: Treasure boat sail

>Hello,
>
>Having just returned from vacation ( to find my hard disk unavailable), I
>was thrilled to finally get to my digests and read of Jim Sakoda's success
>in locating Horaizan in one of his dictionaries.  Thank-you so much for the
>information.  I was looking for the Taoist connection and it is clearly
>stated there.  The description matches Isao Honda's "Noshi" horaizan
>gomashio very well.  The base is a diaper fold with the triangle pointing
>down. By folding in the horizontal points and squash folding them, two
>preliminary bases can be created from which the tortoise and crane
>emerge (with cuts).  The pointed base is then folded up to create the
>sacred mountain Jim's book refers to.  A very simple and nice model.
>According to my research, when Buddhism was introduced to China,
>Taoism adapted and expanded its idea of heaven -- there were 82 of
>them (!) -- so once again, it's nice to find a concrete reference to Honda's
>noshi.
>
>A dream I have is of taking some of the extra paper in the Treasure Ship
>to create a sail upon which the horaizan model would be folded.  (I gave
>it some thought, but got a headache and stopped :-)  This fantasy model
>would copy a kimono print in the "Japanese Book of Design" showing the
>Treasure Ship with a Tortoise and Crane on the sail.  Maybe some of you
>more clever folders are up to the challenge?
>

>

>Kristine Tomlinson
>ktomlinson@platinum.com
>Waltham, MA, USA

Kristine, I have a little suggestion for modifying the front pointed end of
the treasure boat.  If you pull it up it can be positioned upright as a
pointed sail.  Now fold the point downward in half and leave about a sixth
of the folded down part and fold the rest back up. in. Now repeat the
accordion pleating operation on the upper lifted up portion: fold down half
and bend up about 3/4 of it.  These accordion pleats can appear like sails,
but also can be looked on as mountains.  Both the top and bottom accordion
pleats are shaped like the Chinese character for mountain.  Feel free to
make use of it if you have use for it.  Jim Sakoda





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 01:36:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: dragon wings

On Mon, 8 Sep 1997, Cathy Palmer-Lister wrote:
> Hmmm......Terry can explain most things.........sort of.........I haven't
> read Guards, I'm still recuperating from soul Music.  I'm thankful he
> doesn't write origami instructions.  I'm sitting here with a mental picture
> of Death folding squares of paper ......

Oh yes, and magic accidents where pieces of paper suddenly transform into
man-eating monsters. And a guild of paperfolders with rigid rules (one
square, no cuts), that "takes care" of everyone who does not fold their
way. Well, anyway ...

Yours, Sebastian               sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de,skirsch@t-online.de





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 01:39:29 -0300 (ADT)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Origami Entropy

On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, jeffry kerwood wrote:
> know). They really work great, are easy to use, the squares are square
> and it can easily cut up to 15 sheets (I have done 30 and it worked but
> was too scary). I needed to cut about 3000 pieces for 12 fuse quilts for
> next Christmas

For 3000 pieces of paper, the first thing I'd do is going to the copy shop
and cutting it with their hydraulic guillotine cutter. For real masses of
paper, there is nothing better than these machines. I once cut 600 sheets
of photocopier paper there with one cut, and that was only because more
would not fit under the blade.

BTW: Colored photocopier paper is something I can only recommend for
everyone, at least for everyone on a budget, as some cheap throw-away
paper. I use it whenever I don't want to waste my expensive origami paper.
I buy it at a copy shop, where it is about $0.01 a sheet. I usually get a
stack of about 300 sheets and cut it into two stacks of squares with the
shop's cutting machine. This paper is also very good for beginners, as it
is cheap, strong, holds the creases and is something everyone is familiar
with.

Yours, Sebastian                                          skirsch@t-online.de
                           /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 02:59:16 -0300 (ADT)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: Re: article about polygons

Maarten,
At 11.16 8/9/1997 -0300, you wrote:

>I've moved it (1M5) to the articles directory and added a PKZIP
>compressed file (400k).

Does not seem to work: I am unable to unzip polye.ps.zip, which yields an
"error in compressed file" message. Also, you'd better rename it as
polyeps.zip or something similar: good old stupiDOS does not appreciate such
things as multi-dotted filenames.... ;-)

Roberto

    _\|/_
   ( o o )
-oOO-(_)-OOo-=============+
Roberto Morassi           |
Via Palestro 11           |  Please DON'T quote my full
51100 PISTOIA             |  message in reply... I KNOW
ITALY                     |  what I have written ! :-)
tel & fax (+)39-573-20436 |
E-mail <morassi@zen.it>   |





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 03:02:00 -0300 (ADT)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: Re: London

Richard,
At 15.31 8/9/1997 -0300, you wrote:
>
>Most of the larger bookshops in London will carry some origami books.
>You might try Hatchards in Piccadilly for instance.

Don't forget the craft books dept. of Foyles in Charing Cross Road ! They
used to stock several origami books in the past, and if one is lucky..... ;-)

I don't know when Pat's friend will visit London, but it may help to know
that local BOS members hold a mini-meeting on the 2nd saturday of each
month, from 14 to 17 at the Daiwa Foundation, Japan House, 13/14 Cornwall
Terrace, London NW1 (nearest tube station: Baker Street). Contact: Steve
Brown on 0181-5393341.

Roberto

    _\|/_
   ( o o )
-oOO-(_)-OOo-=============+
Roberto Morassi           |
Via Palestro 11           |  Please DON'T quote my full
51100 PISTOIA             |  message in reply... I KNOW
ITALY                     |  what I have written ! :-)
tel & fax (+)39-573-20436 |
E-mail <morassi@zen.it>   |





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 13:54:24 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>
Subject: paper cutting for quilts

Some comments on  jeffry kerwood's quilts project:

If you're going to all that work, use a good quality
paper, preferably one you've tested for fade resistence
under florescent and natural light. Do NOT use copy paper
as it deteriorates rapidly both colorwise and it gets
brittle (high acid/wood content).

Also, folding 3000 modulars can be hazardous to your health:
repetitive strain injury. Vary the module you fold, take
frequent breaks, and stop immediately if your fingers or
hands are feeling tired or cramped. I'm speaking from
experience here...

Cutting the paper: get it cut at a shop as suggested, but
make sure they understand it must be absolutely square and
all same size.

Valerie_Vann@compuserve.com





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:00:27 -0300 (ADT)
From: jeffry kerwood <jkjeff@hotmail.com>
Subject: re: cutting paper.

>From: "pat slider" <slider@stonecutter.com>
>I've attached those little adhesive sandpaper circles to my
>templates, and these seem to solve the slipping problems.

==================

WOW - what a great idea.  Does this work when cutting 4 or 5 sheets at
the same time?

Jeff Kerwood (JKJEFF@HOTMAIL.COM

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:02:43 -0300 (ADT)
From: jeffry kerwood <jkjeff@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: Origami Entropy

>From: Sebastian

>On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, jeffry kerwood wrote:
>> know). They really work great, are easy to use, the squares are
square
>> and it can easily cut up to 15 sheets (I have done 30 and it worked
but
>> was too scary). I needed to cut about 3000 pieces for 12 fuse quilts
for
>> next Christmas
>
>For 3000 pieces of paper, the first thing I'd do is going to the copy
shop
>and cutting it with their hydraulic guillotine cutter. For real masses
of
>paper, there is nothing better than these machines. I once cut 600
sheets
>of photocopier paper there with one cut, and that was only because more
>would not fit under the blade.

Sebastian, thats =ly what i wanted to do. the problem was i had too many
different kinds of paper. I was making several different quilts using
different papers.  That would have been great. IT IS something that was
blatantly missing from the recent "cutting" discussion. Thanks for
bringing it up.

==========================

Thanks,
 Jeff Kerwood (JKJEFF@HOTMAIL.COM)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:06:46 -0300 (ADT)
From: Sy Chen <sychen@erols.com>
Subject: [OT]Re: Treasure Ship/Horaizan/Immortals (Long)

At 03:45 PM 8/25/97 -0300, Kristine Tomlinson wrote:
>
>And now my reason for interest in this model.  I'm researching another
>origami and metaphysics workshop which will introduce some basic
>Taoist ideas using four models: the crane (1,000 years), the tortoise
>(10,000 years), a  Horaizon (tortoise and crane on mountain), and the
>treasure ship (which sails on New Year's Eve from Horaizan? carrying
>the Seven Gods of good luck, wealth, and happiness).  A kimono print
>I've seen combines the tortoise, crane, and treasure ship and it's my
>hope that the models will build nicely on one another as we discuss the
>meaning of "immortality" and the Tao.  There are two wonderful quotes
>from a 3rd century AD Taoist which express the connection between
>cranes, tortoises, and what humans need to do for immortality
>beautifully.

In China the well-known fairy tale and legand is about 8 immortals crossing
the sea to the feast given by Queen Mother of the West (Xi-Wang-Mu). Is the
'Seven Gods of Good Luck' a Japanese version? or Different story? I wish I
could dig out more but my resources are really limited.(as not living in
Taiwan now) As for immortal related designs I will put them into my
to-design-list for possible self challenge in the future.

|------------------------------------------------------\
|  _   Shi-Yew Chen (a.k.a. Sy) <sychen@erols.com>     |\
| |_| Folding http://www.erols.com/sychen1/pprfld.html --\





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:08:29 -0300 (ADT)
From: Kristine Tomlinson <ktomlinson@platinum.com>
Subject: Re: Request: Dream-catcher

On 7 September, 1997, Joel Hoffman wrote asking about a Native
American dream-catcher model.

Since using origami to teach Native beliefs is one of my specialities, I
found this request interesting.  Just yesterday I got a book on Japanese
holidays and paper activities (thanks to David Lister for the reference).
Included was a kirigami (paper folding and cutting) project for creating a
fishing boat, with large net, and fish which I'm sure could be easily
adapted to a dream-catcher.  The effect is like a paper honeycomb.  A
picture of a similar model also appears in one of Yoshizawa's books.

For those of you who are unfamiliar with a dream-catcher, it is a wood
circle with netting like a spider web.  Beads and/or feathers may be
woven in or hung from it.  When hung over the bed, bad dreams are
caught in the web, while good dreams fall through to the center to the
dreamer.

If paper cutting doesn't offend you, I can get the book names at home
and send them to the list.  This could be an interesting project with echos
of some of the sacred paper cutting of Europe and Mexico.

Kristine Tomlinson
ktomlinson@platinum.com
Waltham, MA, USA





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:10:07 -0300 (ADT)
From: Brett Askinazi <brett@hagerhinge.com>
Subject: RE: Extraterrestrial Being - Origami Omnibus, Maekawa, Joseph Wu

If you have Origami Omnibus, the base of the ET is the same as the base the
Kasahara describes as the Maekawa method.  There are a few models based on
it in the book, this may help also; first crease on diagonal and start with
a kite base.

I have folded the peacock in Omnibus from the crease pattern, but ET I
haven't been able to recreate.

Maybe we could get Joseph to diagram his ET model.  (sorry couldn't resist)

Brett

-----Original Message-----
From:   Cathy Palmer-Lister [SMTP:cathypl@generation.net]
Sent:   Saturday, July 26, 1997 1:15 PM
To:     Multiple recipients of list
Subject:        Re: Extraterrestrial Being

At 08:54 PM 1997-07-25 -0300, you wrote:
>Does anyone have the folding diagrams for Jun Maekawa's Extraterrestrial
Being?
>A picture of the model is in Origami for the Connoisseur (page 25), but
>there is only a developmental plan for it, no diagrams. And to make things
>worse not all of the creases are on the developmental plan. Any help would
>be appreciated.
>Ron White
>ronew@mindspring.com
>

That's one of the things that frustrates me about OftC.  I do not have the
technical skill to figure these out.  But the title does give fair
warning.................

    Cathy





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:11:48 -0300 (ADT)
From: Brett Askinazi <brett@hagerhinge.com>
Subject: RE: Laser printed papers (was Re: fractal paper)

I have folded MANY models printing patterns on my deskjet.

In fact if you like wet folding and aren't too worried about the pattern
then you can fold it WHILE THE INK IS STILL WET. I tend to use either solid
colors or colors that blend together for a mottled look.

I use regular bond paper, and the models come out pretty decent

I will have some picture examples up soon at http://www.i1.net/brett.

-----Original Message-----
From:   Joseph Wu [SMTP:origami@planet.datt.co.jp]
Sent:   Tuesday, September 02, 1997 10:23 AM
To:     Multiple recipients of list
Subject:        Laser printed papers (was Re: fractal paper)

On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Mike and Janet Hamilton wrote:

> Nice images.  Here's my question - if I print them on an inkjet printer,
> the ink soaking into the paper might weaken the paper fibers and make it
> difficult to fold.  If I print on a color laser, I wonder if the image
> would be more prone to crack, as the toner is just melted to the paper.
> Has anyone tried printing designs (especially ones as color staurated as
> these)?  What kind of printer did you use and how did the paper and the
> design hold up?

Soaking ink should not be a big problem. If you are concerned, let it dry
overnight first. There are many dyed papers out there that fold well,
right?





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:13:36 -0300 (ADT)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: rotary cutters etc

On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Cathy Palmer-Lister wrote:
> Sorry, I forget the name of it.  I got it at the Japanese Paper Place in
> Montreal.  I will keep losing my head in there....so I try to keep out of
> it! They have such beautiful papers.

Ah! Then it's no surprise. I wish there was a shop like that around here.

BTW: You're sure it's Montreal? I thought the Japanese Paper Place was in
Toronto?

Yours, Sebastian                                          skirsch@t-online.de
                           /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:15:14 -0300 (ADT)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Paper for Wetfolding

On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Joseph Wu wrote:
> Could we PLEASE use relevant subject lines?

Sorry! But would this be a zensible thing to do? :->

> There are all sorts of handmade papers that cost more than that per sheet.

Hm, tell me that I can get them around here ...

> Wyndstone Marble is an elephant hide IMITATION, not real elephant hide
> paper.

As John Marcolina stated, he called Wyndstone and they told them that they
import their marble paper from Zanders in Germany. So this is Elephant
hide after all?

I believe that there are a few different firms in Germany that manufacture
Elephant Hide, but I don't think that their papers differ greatly.

Yours, Sebastian                                          skirsch@t-online.de
                           /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:16:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Elephant hide (was:Re: Expensive paper(was Re: Origami Entropy))

On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Matthias Gutfeldt wrote:
> After all this talk about elephant hide, I still don't
> have a clue what it is. Or did I miss the explanation?

Geh doch einfach mal in ein Schreibwarengeschft und verlange einen Bogen
Elefantenhaut. Und wenn Du damit dann nach Hause gehst und damit na
faltest, dann wirst Du schon sehen, weshalb es dafr gut ist.

Yours, Sebastian                                          skirsch@t-online.de
                           /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:38:50 -0300 (ADT)
From: Zachary Brown <zbrown@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
Subject: Response to "Searching For Optimal Polygon" by David Dureisseix

This 9 page article discusses polygon construction in origami, with lots
of math and lots of diagrams, focussing on the pentagon. I can't
understand much of the math, but the series of diagrams of methods of
constructing pentagons is really wonderful, and the final construction,
showing how to fold a perfect pentagon of maximum size out of a square,
is a real treat.

The article is well worth the time it takes to download the 1.5 megabytes
(or a few hundred K if the zip file is fixed: right now it is corrupted).
Good work David! I look forward to your next.

Zack





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:42:17 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Paper choppers

Sebastian Marius Kirsch <skirsch@t-online.de> sez

> the first thing I'd do is going to the copy shop
>and cutting it with their hydraulic guillotine cutter. For real masses of
>paper, there is nothing better than these machines.

I can second this - I took 1000 sheets into our local printers & they
cut it in 1 go, having typed in the required size. BANG & they were as
near perfect squares as you could wish for. I gave them a nice fold up
front & they wouldn't take any payment!

Another good place to hunt is paper manufacturers, who have "roll-ends"
lying all over the place. Give them anything resembling a good cause &
you can haul it away. I once made a 16ft boat for a lifeboat fund-
raising appeal; the paper was given free & a local funeral directors
stored the paper for me & delivered to a park using one of their
hearses!  What an entrance. A friend documented the process on film,
then sent me a framed picture of me by the unused roll of paper with the
caption "Nick's greatest creation" ;)

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk - now with RealAudio clips!





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 14:59:28 -0300 (ADT)
From: FoldingCA@webtv.net (Dorothy Engleman)
Subject: Casting Call

Hello to all,

I am producing a television show about origami called "Folding
California". "Folding California" will feature an origami cast of
characters illustrating well-known attractions in California like the
San Diego Zoo, the Natural History Museum and the Hollywood Bowl.

"Folding California" is being produced with the cooperation of
OrigamiUSA.  Michael LaFosse and Aldo Putignano are serving as
OrigamiUSA Board consultants.

I need very advanced, precision folders to help fold the approximately
three hundred, mostly complex models in "Folding California".

If you would like to participate in this unique production,  please
contact me for further details. Thank you.

Dorothy Engleman
Santa Monica, California

FoldingCA@webtv.net





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:06:09 -0300 (ADT)
From: jeffry kerwood <jkjeff@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: paper cutting for quilts

>From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>

>Some comments on  jeffry kerwood's quilts project:

>If you're going to all that work, use a good quality
>paper, preferably one you've tested for fade resistence
>under florescent and natural light. Do NOT use copy paper
>as it deteriorates rapidly both colorwise and it gets
>brittle (high acid/wood content).

Valerie: I haven't been at this folding stuff a long time so I undertook
this project lacking many of the insights you experts have. I did use
plain old kami, some specialty art papers and (oh my god) paper from the
precut 3'' cubes that you get at the office supply stores (they were to
big and I needed to cut them to 1.5"). Since I'm done making them I hope
the paper turns out to be ok. (If not, well they are gifts and its the
thought that counts, right?).

====================

>Also, folding 3000 modulars can be hazardous to your health:
>repetitive strain injury. Vary the module you fold, take
>frequent breaks, and stop immediately if your fingers or
>hands are feeling tired or cramped. I'm speaking from
>experience here...

Yeah, thats all really true. I did do several different quilts and
intermixed making the primary figures and the connector pieces. I also
cut what I needed for each quilt and then folded and then assembled each
one. This gave plenty of change, still I did have to just plain stop and
give it a rest some nights.

===================

>Cutting the paper: get it cut at a shop as suggested, but
>make sure they understand it must be absolutely square and
>all same size.

Thats exactly what I wanted to do. But I was making different quilts,
needing different kinds and sizes of papers. I did think of this, it
just didn't work out.

==================

Thanks Valerie, as always, good advice.

Jeff Kerwood (JKJEFF@HOTMAIL.COM)

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:08:59 -0300 (ADT)
From: S.Adriaanse@inter.NL.net (Sjaak Adriaanse)
Subject: Pictorial origami

Hello,

Who knows more about the technique called 'pictorial origami'? It is mentioned
     in Eric Kenneway's Complete Origami, p. 136, as a development by Bob
     Allen. In short, you use edges and folds as lines in a drawing.

Greetings,

Sjaak

Sjaak Adriaanse
email: S.Adriaanse@inter.NL.net
----------------------------------
If your nose runs and your feet smell, you're built upside down.





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:13:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: RA Kennedy <kennedra@isdugp.bham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: London

>
> And add my thanks to that also.  As it happens, I will be in London in March.

Quite a few BOS members live in the London area, or can quite easily travel
to London. I have welcomed at least one member of origami-l to London in the
past. So if you are coming to the UK, and looking for some origami
companionship, let the BOS members of this list know. We'd like to meet you!

Richard K
(R.A.Kennedy@bham.ac.uk)

(Birmingham is about 100 miles from London)





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 15:21:53 -0300 (ADT)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Marble vs. Elephant Hide (was Wetfolding Papers)

I guess my info was out of date. This is what Robert Lang said in Aug.
1996, and I hadn't realised that anything had changed:

>Actually, they are two different papers. 'Marble' is indeed made by
>Wyndstone (in Chicago) and is widely available in the U.S. 'Elephant
>hide' (or 'Elephantenhaut') is made by Zanders (sp?) (in Germany) and is
>less widely available in the U.S. (although I have it on good word that
>Fascinating Folds may soon carry it). The two papers are very similar; my
>feeling is that Elephant Hide folds a bit better, but it smells like moldy
>socks when you wet it. (Thus do we suffer for our art.)

          Joseph Wu           It's your privilege as an artist to inflict
  origami@planet.datt.co.jp   the pain of creativity on yourself. We can
 Webmaster, the Origami Page  teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach
http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami you how YOU paint. There's More Than One Way
                              To Do It. Have the appropriate amount of fun.
                                          --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:09:00 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jose Tomas Buitrago <buitrago@maxwell.univalle.edu.co>
Subject: Origins of the paper sizes.

Anyone knows about the origins of the paper sizes ?
Why the letter size is 8.5"x11" or the european papers has 210x297 cm?

I think is best and easy to has proportions 2x1 or 3x2, but the A4 has
proportions 1 x square root of 2 and the letter size is 1 x 1.294...

Jose Tomas





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:14:23 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: paper cutting for quilts

Well, the memo cube paper probably won't hold color too
long; blues and purples can be especially bad under
florescent light, and the "neon" colors of paper are
pretty bad too. On the other hand, they may fade in
an interesting way  :-)

If you framed the quilts with mat for space and glass,
the color retention should be better.

Some better quality kami papers are surprisingly good
in the color retention aspect. But the best thing I've
found so far, though too thick for small origami and
modular pieces (works good for medium modulars) is
the stuff called "Fadeless", available through school
supply stores, art stores, and recently Fascinating
Folds. Comes in big rolls for displays, plus 60 sheet
pkgs of 20 colors, 12x18 inch.

I have a modular ball (kusudama) nearly 30 years old from
this stuff, hung under florescent lights for nearly 20 yrs
before the blues started to go, and you can still tell what
most of the colors were originally (this was a 30 unit
ball with almost all 20 colors of Fadeless)

I admire your ambition and stick-to-it-tivity! Hope you
get some photos before you give the quilts all away!

--valerie





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:17:19 -0300 (ADT)
From: Rjlang@aol.com
Subject: Re:  Elephant Hide Controversy

John Marcolina sez:

>>>>
Robert Lang had stated a while back that he had obtained Elephant Hide paper
in Germany some years ago, and he liked it better than Marble for the
following reasons: it was slightly thinner, it folded *better*, and it came
in colors he liked better (i.e. dark brown). I believe he said it was made by
Zanders company (correct me if I'm wrong, Robert). Also, he said the E. H.
paper smelled like moldy socks when you wet it!
[snip]
Then I called Wyndstone Paper in Chicago and talked to someone who told me
that Wyndstone doesn't make their Marble paper, but import it from - Zanders
of Germany!
<<<<<

Now isn't this an interesting development! Jeez, just when I thought I had it
all figured out, Liberace and his evil twin Harry are played by the same
actor.

Unfortunately, a conundrum remains. I am still in possession of several (now
extremely precious) sheets of dark brown paper purchased in Germany under the
name of "Elefantenhaut" (Elephant Hide) which, even after 10 years, still
smells like a high school locker room when you wet it.

>>>>
This, of course, does not explain why the paper Robert described was
different, unless Zanders had changed their recipe at some point after he
bought it.
<<<<

Could be. If it's truly Zanders, they've evidently dropped the dark brown
color (my favorite, naturally) sometime in the last decade.

(In case you're wondering what it looks like, the Rat on the cover of
_Origami Zoo_ and the Antelope on the cover of _Origami Animals_ are both
folded from the stuff.)

The other possible explanation is that manufacturer isn't really Zanders. I
originally bought my stuff from Steinmann, an art store in Germany (located
around the corner from Stuttgart Hauptbanhof, to be exact) but never noted
the manufacturer. It was one of our German friends on the 'list who made the
connection to Zanders in the last couple of years.

If it well and truly is no longer made or they changed the recipe, then I'll
have to imbue the paper with all sorts of magical properties that are now
irrevocably lost.

Come to think of it, though, that's what I folded Toshi Aoyagi's Black Forest
Cuckoo Clock from, which survived both his apartment burning to the ground
and the subsequent drenching it received from the Toronto Fire Department.
Maybe that stuff _is_ magic!

Robert





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:54:39 -0300 (ADT)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Pictorial origami

On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Sjaak Adriaanse wrote:
> Who knows more about the technique called 'pictorial origami'? It is
> mentioned in Eric Kenneway's Complete Origami, p. 136, as a development
> by Bob Allen. In short, you use edges and folds as lines in a drawing.

The most impressing model of this style is certainly Herman van
Goubergen's "Gecko and fly on a wall", a model of a lizard and a fly on a
flat sheet of paper. It's wonderful, really.

And I know one model by Klaus-Dieter Ennen which has a heart emerging
from a flat sheet of paper.

Yours, Sebastian                                          skirsch@t-online.de
                           /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 16:57:56 -0300 (ADT)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: paper cutting for quilts

On Wed, 10 Sep 1997, Valerie Vann wrote:
> Cutting the paper: get it cut at a shop as suggested, but
> make sure they understand it must be absolutely square and
> all same size.

Or, even better, get the shop's employees to let you cut it yourself. In
the copy shop where I usually go, they are pretty relaxed about this
thing, although there is a sign on it saying that only employees may
operate the cutting machine. (Yes, that's exactly the shop where I had to
explain the difference between 8.9 and 8.09 cms.)

Yours, Sebastian                                          skirsch@t-online.de
                           /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 17:53:04 -0300 (ADT)
From: John Ahn <ahnjy@student.law.sc.edu>
Subject: Re: Origami Entropy

Hello all,

        I was wondering if anyone could give me info on web-based, mail order
companies that sell origami paper.  The only ones I know of are:
               Fascinating Folds (www.fascinating-folds.com)
               Mono (www.vanlink.com)
               Crane (www.dimscrane)
These three are pretty good and well organized, but I was wondering if
there was any more out there.

                              John Ahn





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:16:11 -0300 (ADT)
From: Cathy Palmer-Lister <cathypl@generation.net>
Subject: Re: rotary cutters etc

At 02:15 PM 1997-09-10 -0300, you wrote:
>On Tue, 9 Sep 1997, Cathy Palmer-Lister wrote:
>> Sorry, I forget the name of it.  I got it at the Japanese Paper Place in
>> Montreal.  I will keep losing my head in there....so I try to keep out of
>> it! They have such beautiful papers.
>
>Ah! Then it's no surprise. I wish there was a shop like that around here.
>
>BTW: You're sure it's Montreal? I thought the Japanese Paper Place was in
>Toronto?
>
>Yours, Sebastian                                          skirsch@t-online.de
>                           /or/ sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de (no mail > 16KB!)
>

Yes, it is in Toronto, but there is a shop in Montreal as well.  It is on
Fairmont Street, just barely west of St Laurent.       Thank God they do not
take credit cards.

                                                        Cathy





Date: Wed, 10 Sep 1997 19:23:53 -0300 (ADT)
From: Cathy Palmer-Lister <cathypl@generation.net>
Subject: Re: London

At 03:15 PM 1997-09-10 -0300, you wrote:
>>
>> And add my thanks to that also.  As it happens, I will be in London in March.
>
>Quite a few BOS members live in the London area, or can quite easily travel
>to London. I have welcomed at least one member of origami-l to London in the
>past. So if you are coming to the UK, and looking for some origami
>companionship, let the BOS members of this list know. We'd like to meet you!
>
>Richard K
>(R.A.Kennedy@bham.ac.uk)
>
>(Birmingham is about 100 miles from London)

I think I will be near Birmingham.  I am going to Deliverance, a Blakes 7
convention, in Daventree.  It seemed silly to us to go to all that trouble
and expense just to spend three days in a hotel in Daventree, so we decided
to spend even more money (is this making any sense??)  and spend a week in
England, most of it in London.  As I have been in London once before, I
could easily take a day out of the schedule to visit origami people and
places.  Any BOS members in Daventree?  Maybe we could fold Liberators...

                                        Cathy
