




Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 14:19:38 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jorma Oksanen <tenu@sci.fi>
Subject: Re: Treasure Ship/Horaizan/Immortals (Long)

On 31-Aug-97, James M. Sakoda (James_Sakoda@brown.edu) wrote:

>Kristine,  I found Horaizan in my dictionaries.  According to Chinese
>legend it is a holy  place in the western ocen where sennin are said to
>live.  It also refers to a decorative representation of a sacred mountain,
>made up of shochikubai (pine, bamboo, plum blossom), kame-zuru (turtle and
>crane--long living animals) and used on cermonial occasions.  Sennin refers
>to the ideal person in Taoism.   Lives in the mountain and is ageless and
>immortal and has strange powers.  For more information it might help to
>look up taoism or the teachings  of Laotsse.  Hope this helps.  Jim Sakoda

Is this the "Jade Mountain" Paradise of the West, where Si Wang Mu
(the queen of immortals, called Seiobo in Japan) lives with her sister?
Her attendands include the Blue Stork, the White Tiger, the Stag, and
the gigantic Tortoise.

--
Jorma "how did I know that?" Oksanen   tenu@sci.fi

They say I'm negative and indifferent, but I refuse to care.





Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 16:55:40 -0300 (ADT)
From: Dennis Walker <d_and_m_walker@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Folding time as a measure of complexity

Hi,

Simon Burchill asked which flapping bird. The flapping bird I meant was the
one folded from a bird base and is only a couple of folds away from the
traditional Japanese crane.

Some worries that I had about this numbering scheme were.

1. Surely a lot of folds by the likes of Lang, Engel, Montroll and Kawahata
would have crane ratings up in the hundreds. This means that a system
intended to be simple would have a very large range of ratings.
2. I frequently find that my second (or third or fourth) attempt at a model
is faster than the first. (In fact in the cases of the aforementioned
creators my first attempt is often incomplete, unrecognisable and in the
bin!) Which time should be given?
3. Surely the time taken would also be affected by the materials used?

At the end of the day, there are so many variables that what we end up with
is only a guideline. Maybe what we really need is a set of guidelines to
measure or estimate complexity. There seems to be an unofficial 5 star
system used by Montroll and also on one of the web sites. Is this good
enough? Do we need prior warning of certain procedures?
I for one would be wary of any fold marked "WARNING. 3 double sinks ahead"!

                Yours, tongue slightly in cheek.

                                Dennis Walker





Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 18:12:12 -0300 (ADT)
From: LarryFinch@aol.com
Subject: Re: origami sighting?

Carlos Alberto Furuti wrote:
> XYZZY? Plugh? The bird in the golden cage and the huge green
> fierce snake? How many fellow folders out there have explored
> the Colossal Cave??

I encountered (and beat) it in 1978 on a TI-990 (NOT 99). I have a version of
it that I ported to my HP-95LX and later my HP-200LX palmtop, and there are
dozens of commercial and free versions about. One of the commercial versions
(which I really enjoyed) added some "rooms," including one in the chasm under
the bear's bridge, and one off the Dark room. It also added some options in
the end game.

There was a "sequel" called Crystal Cave. It's rather neat in that many of
the things you pick up can be dangerous, especially those that are the same
or similar to objects in Colossal Cave.

For those who have played it, did anyone discover that there is a secret
control panel in many versions that you access by typing "magic mode" at the
first prompt?

Larry





Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:10:25 -0300 (ADT)
From: david troxel <jmtkmd@erols.com>
Subject: Re: origami baton

Help!!!! I would like to be dropped from this mailing list any idea how
to go about it??????

jmtkmd@erols.com





Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:45:49 -0300 (ADT)
From: Richard of Foong <ryf@ecr.mu.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Rattlesnake

On Wed, 27 Aug 1997, Nick Robinson wrote:

> Richard of Foong <ryf@ecr.mu.oz.au> sez
>
> >Where can I get hold of Peter Engels rattlesnake?
>
> By the tail, I'd suggest. Sorry - couldn't resist ;)

I must say, very funny! But i was thinking, I you get it by the tail,
won't it bite?

Richard.





Date: Sun, 31 Aug 1997 21:46:27 -0300 (ADT)
From: EKC <vpenner@geocities.com>
Subject: fractal paper

I was using Fractint to look at some fractals, when it occurred to me
that I could print out some fractals and use them to fold origami.  I
thought that other people might want to try it out too, so I put a
couple of square fractal image files (GIF format) on my website at
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/9740/fractal.html

If you like the fractals, you can make your own fractal images by
downloading Fractint at
http://spanky.triumf.ca/www/fractint/fractint.html .  Or if you would
like to see some more of mine, let me know, and I can put some more on
my webpage.

Ellen
Infinitely complex, and self-similar...





Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 02:06:53 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Chamberlain, Clare" <Clare.Chamberlain@health.wa.gov.au>
Subject:

An eclectic response for the first day of SPRING!

1. we don't have platypus models in Australia 'cos no one has ever seen
them except on TV.  (In fact, they are not real, but a clever
advertising ploy by the Tourism commission, along with Elle McPherson
and Crocodile Dundee.

2. self folding paper: the amount a sheet will fold itself is directly
proportional to how precious it is, how loudly you say 'DON' TOUCH
THIS', How long you are away, and how many offspring are in the room.
Creative crease patterns guaranteed (including wet folding if children
are aged 3 or under)

3.Seven lucky gods- I did have all the names, but have deleted the
e-mail I sent to Kristine - can you oblige. Models for all, but in the
traditional style of multiple sheets cut and folded to build up kimono
type layers can be found in a glorious book (coffee table) Koten Origami
(Classical Origami) by Yaejyo SAKUMA, pub Heibonshya in 1981. You may
find it in a library somewhere - it would be very hard to copy as most
pages are coloured.
A few nice crane variation are in Living Origami by Takuji SUGIMURA, No
41 of Hoiksha's Color Books sSeries,    1983
(Hioksha Publishing Co., 17-13, 1-chome, Uemachi, Higashi-ku, Osaka,
540, Japan)
I have a couple of Japanese craft series books exclusively on tsuru
(paper cranes) which have some interesting variations but I've lent it
to school for Hiroshima day (I think).  One is by Fuse Tomoko,
incorporating modules with cranes - very pretty stuff.  (I can't read
the tittle 'cos it's in Japanese).  The other is a craft book, probably
printed in the early 1980's - I'll try and do better when I can!

4. Simple models - those of you with long memories will remember this
debate in BOS magazine 20 odd years ago (when I was but a child).  Now I
only have the time for simple folds - what luxury to be able to start at
breakfast and fold 'til dusk.  You obviously don't have small kids and
clothes to was (and remove crease patterns thereof).  I still don't see
the pleasure of folding a bi-plane with steering wheel and struts that
doesn't even fly - but then I prefer simple brush painting to heavy
oils......

Anyone want to have a convention in Perth, Western Australia - I'll be
in on that (or even meet at my house!)
May the goddesses be with you!

Planning Officer
Program, Planning and Purchasing
Health Department of Western Australia
189 Royal Street, EAST PERTH, WA 6004
Clare.Chamberlain@health.wa.gov.au





Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 08:11:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Rob Neale's dragon

Mike and Janet Hamilton <mikeinnj@concentric.net> sez

>Are there any sources for Bob Neale's dragon

It's worth searching for - it's the fold I give away more than any other
- people think it's brilliant. I don't pleat the neck or tail though. If
you make it from cig-wrapping foil, you can go smaaaall!

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk - now with RealAudio clips!





Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 09:11:11 -0300 (ADT)
From: Eileen Tan <eileen@tristan.TN.CORNELL.EDU>
Subject: Origami and text adventures

Hi all,

   Speaking of text adventures, has anyone played "Trinity" by Infocom?
One of the puzzles involves a paper crane; also, the game packaging
included instructions for folding the crane.

<Advert>
  Check out rec.arts.int-fiction and rec.games.int-fiction for the very
latest in text adventures!
</Advert>

Eileen





Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 09:15:03 -0300 (ADT)
From: Matthias Gutfeldt <Tanjit@bboxbbs.ch>
Subject: [Definitely Not Origami-related]: Zork

Allen Parry wrote:
> > 'Zork' games are the best known].
> In my early years of computers (the 70's) I spent a lot of time
> playing this game....too much really.

For any Zork fan I'd suggest buying the now available
"Zork Special Edition" (sFr. 89). It includes the "Zork Anthology"
(Zork I, II, II, Zork Zero, Beyond Zork),  "Return to Zork"
and "Zork Nemesis".
Zork I,II,III are pure text adventures, ZZero and BZork
a mix of text/graphics, and RZT and ZN are state-of-the-art
graphics adventures.
When you get it, don't forget to buy a full month's supply
of food too...

Matthias, likely to be eaten by a grue.





Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 10:22:18 -0300 (ADT)
From: Mike and Janet Hamilton <mikeinnj@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: fractal paper

EKC wrote:
>
> I was using Fractint to look at some fractals, when it occurred to me
> that I could print out some fractals and use them to fold origami.  I
> thought that other people might want to try it out too, so I put a
> couple of square fractal image files (GIF format) on my website at
> http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/9740/fractal.html

Nice images.  Here's my question - if I print them on an inkjet printer,
the ink soaking into the paper might weaken the paper fibers and make it
difficult to fold.  If I print on a color laser, I wonder if the image
would be more prone to crack, as the toner is just melted to the paper.
Has anyone tried printing designs (especially ones as color staurated as
these)?  What kind of printer did you use and how did the paper and the
design hold up?

Janet Hamilton

--
mailto:Mikeinnj@concentric.net
http://www.concentric.net/~Mikeinnj/





Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 16:12:33 -0300 (ADT)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: fractal paper

On Sun, 31 Aug 1997, EKC wrote:
> I was using Fractint to look at some fractals, when it occurred to me
> that I could print out some fractals and use them to fold origami.

I have seen this at Wrzburg at the Origami Deutschland Convention. There,
Walter Praher used paper with the Mandelbrot set to fold his Parabolum. It
didn't look so bad, though.

The "Parabolum"? That's quite simple. Take a waterbomb base and sink the
tip up and down eight times. You get a cross-like thing with four arms.
Now take two opposing arms and flex them towards each other. The thing
should flex into a roof-like, stable shape.

Indeed, I have also used paper printed with fractals a few years ago. But
I only had a pinwriter then, so I quickly gave it up again. :-)

Yours, Sebastian               sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de,skirsch@t-online.de





Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 19:23:31 -0300 (ADT)
From: Cathy Palmer-Lister <cathypl@generation.net>
Subject: Re: Cat model (Was German Shepherd model)

At 05:19 AM 1997-08-29 -0300, you wrote:
................... And since hand-diagramming is a very
>time-consuming thing to do, diagrammers tried to put as much information
>as possible into one diagram. This results in diagrams that are hard to
>follow, since several things are done at once in one picture, and several
>folding sequences run parallel over several pictures.

What really drives me crazy is when two or three directions are given for
one diagram, and the last of them is "turn over model" .............The next
diagram shows the model turned over so I have no idea what the last couple
of steps were supposed to look like!!!!!!!!!!!

                                                                Cathy





Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 19:29:13 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Rattlesnake

Richard of Foong <ryf@ecr.mu.oz.au> sez

>I must say, very funny! But i was thinking, I you get it by the tail,
>won't it bite?

I don't think Peter included working fangs, so you should be safe ;)

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk - now with RealAudio clips!





Date: Mon, 01 Sep 1997 23:48:48 -0300 (ADT)
From: Mr & Mrs Owen <djowen@pcl.net>
Subject: Re: Rob Neale's dragon

This is a multi-part message in MIME format.

------=_NextPart_000_01BCB720.A53CE840

My son Andrew loves dragons.  Where do I start searching?
joyce owen
mother of the folder

----------
> From: Nick Robinson <nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <origami-l@nstn.ca>
> Subject: Re: Rob Neale's dragon
> Date: Monday, September 01, 1997 6:12 AM
>
> Mike and Janet Hamilton <mikeinnj@concentric.net> sez
>
> >Are there any sources for Bob Neale's dragon
>
> It's worth searching for - it's the fold I give away more than any other
> - people think it's brilliant. I don't pleat the neck or tail though. If
> you make it from cig-wrapping foil, you can go smaaaall!
>
> all the best,
>
> Nick Robinson
>
> email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
> homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
> BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/

> RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk - now with RealAudio clips!
------=_NextPart_000_01BCB720.A53CE840

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D2 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Arial">My son Andrew loves dragons. =
&nbsp;Where do I start searching?<br>joyce owen<br>mother of the =
folder<br><br>----------<br>&gt; From: Nick Robinson &lt;<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">&gt;<br>&gt; To: Multiple recipients of list &lt;<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>origami-l@nstn.ca</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">&gt;<br>&gt; Subject: Re: Rob Neale's dragon<br>&gt; =
Date: Monday, September 01, 1997 6:12 AM<br>&gt; <br>&gt; Mike and Janet =
Hamilton &lt;<font color=3D"#0000FF"><u>mikeinnj@concentric.net</u><font =
color=3D"#000000">&gt; sez<br>&gt; <br>&gt; &gt;Are there any sources =
for Bob Neale's dragon <br>&gt; <br>&gt; It's worth searching for - it's =
the fold I give away more than any other<br>&gt; - people think it's =
brilliant. I don't pleat the neck or tail though. If<br>&gt; you make it =
from cig-wrapping foil, you can go smaaaall!<br>&gt; &nbsp;<br>&gt; all =
the best, <br>&gt; &nbsp;&nbsp;<br>&gt; Nick Robinson<br>&gt; <br>&gt; =
email &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>&gt; homepage =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"> - all new look!<br>&gt; BOS homepage =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"> =
&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&=
nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&n=
bsp;&nbsp;<br>&gt; RPM homepage &nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"> - now with RealAudio clips!</p>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></font></f=
ont></font></font></font></font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BCB720.A53CE840--





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 03:23:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: gjsmyth <gjsmyth@aelmg.adelaide.edu.au>
Subject: Tiny Crimps

Hi Ive been trying to fold this model I got off a South American site
(link from J. Wu's page) called "Dedalo" (must mean angel or something
like that) by Gabriel Alvarez.
I don't know if any of you are familiar with this model or not but it is
a model of a winged man (or angel) and looks unreal (in the picture anyway)!!
I haven't been able to fold much more than a crumpled mess so far because
of the many, very small, multiple layer crimps involved.
Is there any sort of secret or technique you guys use to fold such crimps.

Thank you for any help you can give me as I'd love to be able to fold
this model for my girlfriend who's sick in hospital at the moment.

-Graeme Smyth
gjsmyth@aelmg.adelaide.edu.au





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 07:12:10 -0300 (ADT)
From: John Smith <jon.pure@paston.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Folding time as a measure of complexity

At 04:55 PM 8/31/97 -0300, you wrote:

 Maybe what we really need is a set of guidelines to
>measure or estimate complexity.
>
>

I have attempted to do this . In Dec.1976 I published an article titled
"It's all relative" ,( BOS magazine No. 61), in this I looked at the
problems of measuring difficulty and came down in favour of measuring the
time required to make a given fold. I used a valley or mountain fold as the
base of the index and timed myself making a large number of such folds. I
repeated this with a squash and so on. By then setting the time for a valley
fold as one I ccould get the relative index for other folds. Not
surprisingly the index closely mapped the number of creases which had to be
manipulated simulateously when making the particular fold.
Thus a reverse fold had an index of 2.58, and a petal fold 4.58. An 8 layer
sink had an index of 17.05.

In the proceedings of COET95 (an OUSA publication) I introduced a measure of
total difficulty using the above scale but adding the difficulty of fold
location and orientation. Thus it became possible to have a single measure
of the the models difficulty by adding the relative time elements.

I then used this measure, and the analysis that preceeded it, to see how the
model could be simplified to help disadvantaged people. I used part of this
approach in trying to assess the most difficult model for my Origami Records
and Curiosities ( see the superb Joseph Wu site)

John
John Smith
Norwich
England
e-mail  jon.pure@paston.co.uk





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 08:22:44 -0300 (ADT)
From: Mike and Janet Hamilton <mikeinnj@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Tiny Crimps

gjsmyth@aelmg.adelaide.edu.au wrote:
>
> Hi Ive been trying to fold this model I got off a South American site
> (link from J. Wu's page) called "Dedalo" (must mean angel or something
> like that) by Gabriel Alvarez.

Daedelus is a figure from Greek mythology.  He built the labyrinth for
King Minos, but lost the favor of the king and was imprisoned in a
tower.  He could not escape by sea, so built wings for himself and his
son, Icarus, to escape by air.  Icarus flew too close to the sun and the
heat melted the wax holding the feathers to his wings, and he perished.

I believe Daedelus also tried to kill his nephew for being a better
inventor than he.

Janet Hamilton

--
mailto:Mikeinnj@concentric.net
http://www.concentric.net/~Mikeinnj/





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 11:38:38 -0300 (ADT)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: Re: ADMIN:

Maarten,

thanks for your care in sending periodic advices. However I'd like to notice
a few things:

1) the listserver address. I use listserver@nstn.ca (which has always given
a correct feedback), and _not_ listserv@nstn.ca: is this a working alias, or
an out-of-date address ?

2) As I had to go out on holiday recently, I've sent a POSTPONE command,
receiving this message in reply:

MAIL mode reset to POSTPONE

....but it's not true ! I haven't been postponed at all, as on my return
I've found about 200  origami-l messages in my mailbox ! <:-(

Any explanation ? Thanks.

Roberto

    _\|/_
   ( o o )
-oOO-(_)-OOo-=============+
Roberto Morassi           |
Via Palestro 11           |  Please DON'T quote my full
51100 PISTOIA             |  message in reply... I KNOW
ITALY                     |  what I have written ! :-)
tel & fax (+)39-573-20436 |
E-mail <morassi@zen.it>   |





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 11:40:10 -0300 (ADT)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: Re: Request for a model.

Sjiak,

At 18.00 28/8/1997 -0300, you wrote:

>There is a nice scorpion by Patricia Crawford in 'Origami' (Robert Harbin).
>I do not know if this book is still available, it's from 1974 and it's
published by The Hamlyn Publishing Group Ltd.

The complete title is "Origami: A Step By Step Guide", it has a lot of
amazing models by Pat Crawford. I'm afraid it's long out of print.....

Roberto

    _\|/_
   ( o o )
-oOO-(_)-OOo-=============+
Roberto Morassi           |
Via Palestro 11           |  Please DON'T quote my full
51100 PISTOIA             |  message in reply... I KNOW
ITALY                     |  what I have written ! :-)
tel & fax (+)39-573-20436 |
E-mail <morassi@zen.it>   |





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 11:41:14 -0300 (ADT)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: RE: John Montroll is AN ALIEN ! !

Richard,
At 21.33 26/8/1997 -0300, you wrote:

>Where can I get hold of Peter Engels rattlesnake? It sounds really
>interesting.

All rattlesnakes "sound" in a particular way...... ;-)

Roberto

    _\|/_
   ( o o )
-oOO-(_)-OOo-=============+
Roberto Morassi           |
Via Palestro 11           |  Please DON'T quote my full
51100 PISTOIA             |  message in reply... I KNOW
ITALY                     |  what I have written ! :-)
tel & fax (+)39-573-20436 |
E-mail <morassi@zen.it>   |





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 11:58:18 -0300 (ADT)
From: Pam and/or Namir <pgraben@umich.edu>
Subject: Monthly Posting: Hints & Dimensions

Hey all you netters.  I just wanted to make a small posting
telling all you new folks out there, and anyone else who may find
the information useful, about some documents I now maintain.
Zack Brown is housing these at his web site:
http://lynx.dac.neu.edu/home/httpd/z/zbrown/origami/
and they are posted in full on the origami newsgroup
alt.arts.origami monthly.  The items that are being referred to are:

"Origami Book Errata & Hints"
    A document that lists typos, diagrammatic error, and hints
for difficult or hard-to-interpret instructions.
http://lynx.dac.neu.edu/home/httpd/z/zbrown/origami/origami.errata

"Origami Model Dimensions"
    A document that gives the size of a finished model in
comparison to the starting size.  The measurements are
scaleable.  This is useful if you need a particular size
model, and are unsure of what size paper to start with.
http://lynx.dac.neu.edu/home/httpd/z/zbrown/origami/origami.dimensions

If anyone cares to contribute to either of these articles, please
feel free to drop me a line.

Have fun, and I hope these prove useful in extending your joy of origami!
-Namir
!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-
Pamela Graben:     Thinking... what a concept!
Namir Gharaibeh:  "If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice."
pgraben@umich.edu





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:19:17 -0300 (ADT)
From: Len Zane <lenz@ccmail.nevada.edu>
Subject: Re[2]: Request for a model.

     unsuscribe - Len Zane





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:23:14 -0300 (ADT)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Laser printed papers (was Re: fractal paper)

On Mon, 1 Sep 1997, Mike and Janet Hamilton wrote:

> Nice images.  Here's my question - if I print them on an inkjet printer,
> the ink soaking into the paper might weaken the paper fibers and make it
> difficult to fold.  If I print on a color laser, I wonder if the image
> would be more prone to crack, as the toner is just melted to the paper.
> Has anyone tried printing designs (especially ones as color staurated as
> these)?  What kind of printer did you use and how did the paper and the
> design hold up?

Soaking ink should not be a big problem. If you are concerned, let it dry
overnight first. There are many dyed papers out there that fold well, right?

As for colour laser prints, they work fine. I recently did a movie camera
design (to be used for a poster advertising the Vancouver Asian Film
Festival) folded out of paper that was printed on a Fiery laser printer.
There was some slight cracking of the ink, but not too much. I would not
use that paper for anything really fine and detailed, however.

          Joseph Wu           It's your privilege as an artist to inflict
  origami@planet.datt.co.jp   the pain of creativity on yourself. We can
 Webmaster, the Origami Page  teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach
http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami you how YOU paint. There's More Than One Way
                              To Do It. Have the appropriate amount of fun.
                                          --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 12:30:37 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>
Subject: Tiny Crimps

No help on the crimps, but judging from the name,
it is probably a "winged man", from Greco/Roman
mythology: the one who tried to fly and fell into
the sun.

--valerie





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 15:31:38 -0300 (ADT)
From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@ahand.unicamp.br>
Subject: Re: Tiny Crimps

Hello Graeme,

Gabriel Alvarez created a wonderful model - impressively suggestive
and relatively simple. If properly folded, you can surely imagine
the leg muscles throbbing and a head bent by effort (if you performed
properly the 8-sided open sink...)

"Tiny crimps?" Surely you're not mentioning the crimps all along
the wings since they are done at the last step. Could you be
more precise about where you got stuck? I do not think the
model requires a specially difficult technique - rather it's
artistic intuition for realistic shaping.

P.S. Janet is right about the Daedalus myth. And according to
some sources Daedalus did attempt to murder his nephew
pushing him down a cliff (if I remember well he was called Perdix
and was "saved" by the gods and turned into a partridge)

P.P.S. That model is diagrammed in Ansill's Mythical Beings and
a nice little book by the Grupo Riglos, "El Libro de las Pajaritas
de Papel".

        Carlos
        furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 16:37:16 -0300 (ADT)
From: Howard Portugal <howardp@fast.net>
Subject: Re: Extra steps...

Nick,

Nick Robinson wrote:
> Yes, we'd all like to include that extra diagram, but since it has no
> folds (as such), it can seem a luxury to people who don't enjoy making
> diagrams, especially if they feel they can cram it onto a single page!

I have to agree with Cathy in that the "missing" diagram showing the
folded model before it is turned over is essential. If the author or
diagrammer has taken the time to create a set of diagrams for a model,
I cannot see why they wouldn't include one more diagram which would
add to its clarity. I suppose that if it added another page to a book
and the publisher had a real problem with that extra page, then removing
the diagram might be justified, but if it were me, I'd fight the
publisher.
Then again, I've never published anything and have no idea how easy or
difficult they are to deal with.

Howard
--
Howard Portugal   |  When you have eliminated the impossible,
West Chester, PA  |  whatever remains, however improbable,
howardp@fast.net  |  must be the truth.
                 |  Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
                 |  Sherlock Holmes, in The Sign of Four, ch. 6 (1889).





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 17:56:25 -0300 (ADT)
From: Rob Moes <robert.moes@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Tiny Crimps

Graeme Smyth <gjsmyth@aelmg.adelaide.edu.au> writes:

>I haven't been able to fold much more than a crumpled mess so far because
>of the many, very small, multiple layer crimps involved.
>Is there any sort of secret or technique you guys use to fold such crimps.

My secret is a pair of needle-nose tweezers that I used in biology class to
position fruit-flies under the microscope.  I find them immensely helpful,
particularly with micro-origami.  <grin>

For very thick multiple-layered crimps (some elephant trunks) I have even
used needle-nose pliers, on occasion.

Sometimes having the right tool makes all the difference.  Good luck!

Rob





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:04:20 -0300 (ADT)
From: jeffry kerwood <jkjeff@hotmail.com>
Subject: FUSE QUESTIONS (repost)

HI:

1) After making the model on page 6 of the Fuse spiral book 2 (at least
I think it is 2, ISBN 4-480-87262-0) the model was "spoingy" (wouldn't
lay flat). Any tips on how to make it stay flat. I thought of weighting
it down with marbles overnight. I haven't tried it yet but suspect it
will spoing back after a few days anyway. (Now, I know I don't have to
say this but - NO GLUE, PAPER CLIPS (my current solution), TAPE, STAPLES
or VELCRO).

2) Whats good paper to use for Fuse spirals (esp. pages 6, 63 & 68 of
the Fuse book mentioned above). I tried 4 or 5 different papers for page
6 and all but one of them "slumped" after a few days so that the rounded
edge that it sits on became flat. The one paper that did not slump was a
bit too thick. So, any good papers for this that aren't too thick?

3) While I'm on the topic of Fuse spirals. How the heck (or should I say
*HECK*) do you fold the spiral tower on page 68 without ending up with a
crumpled heap. I had a nice clean well "preembossed" (all lines pre
drawn with embossing stylus) but by the time I had finished putting in
the precreases the paper looked like ..., well let's keep this G rated.
I got the model finished but heck if I'd let any body see it. What is
the secret, is it a special precreaseing sequence?

Thanks,
Jeff ( JKJEFF@HOTMAIL.COM )

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 18:59:04 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Ortiz, Cathy" <CORTIZ@foxsportsintl.com>
Subject: RE: FUSE QUESTIONS (repost)

I only have book 1 but have had good luck with American Foil.
Have you tried it?
Cortiz.

> ----------
> From:         jeffry kerwood[SMTP:jkjeff@hotmail.com]
> Reply To:     origami-l@nstn.ca
> Sent:         Tuesday, September 02, 1997 2:04 PM
> To:   Multiple recipients of list
> Subject:      FUSE QUESTIONS (repost)
>
> HI:
>
> 1) After making the model on page 6 of the Fuse spiral book 2 (at
> least
> I think it is 2, ISBN 4-480-87262-0) the model was "spoingy" (wouldn't
>
> lay flat). Any tips on how to make it stay flat. I thought of
> weighting
> it down with marbles overnight. I haven't tried it yet but suspect it
> will spoing back after a few days anyway. (Now, I know I don't have to
>
> say this but - NO GLUE, PAPER CLIPS (my current solution), TAPE,
> STAPLES
> or VELCRO).
>
> 2) Whats good paper to use for Fuse spirals (esp. pages 6, 63 & 68 of
> the Fuse book mentioned above). I tried 4 or 5 different papers for
> page
> 6 and all but one of them "slumped" after a few days so that the
> rounded
> edge that it sits on became flat. The one paper that did not slump was
> a
> bit too thick. So, any good papers for this that aren't too thick?
>
> 3) While I'm on the topic of Fuse spirals. How the heck (or should I
> say
> *HECK*) do you fold the spiral tower on page 68 without ending up with
> a
> crumpled heap. I had a nice clean well "preembossed" (all lines pre
> drawn with embossing stylus) but by the time I had finished putting in
>
> the precreases the paper looked like ..., well let's keep this G
> rated.
> I got the model finished but heck if I'd let any body see it. What is
> the secret, is it a special precreaseing sequence?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff ( JKJEFF@HOTMAIL.COM )
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 19:19:41 -0300 (ADT)
From: mitchell@quail.MSAnet.com (ID 601198 - Leslie Mitchell)
Subject: RE: PINE

ANYONE OUT THERE KNOW OF AN ORIGAMI-RELATED ORGANIZATION THAT GOES BY THE
ACRONYM "PINE"?? I HAVE HEARD OF THIS THROUGH AN OLD COPY OF "THE PAPER" FROM
OUSA. IS THERE A WEBSITE OUT THERE AS WELL?

THANKS FOLKS-- LESLIE MITCHELL





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 20:14:18 -0300 (ADT)
From: EKC <vpenner@geocities.com>
Subject: Re: fractal paper

Janet Hamilton wrote:

> Has anyone tried printing designs (especially ones as color staurated as
> these)?  What kind of printer did you use and how did the paper and the
> design hold up?
>
> Janet Hamilton
>

I printed them on an Epson ink jet printer, using normal paper, and then
I cut out the design.  The result was no harder to fold than usual, and
the colours and patterns did look interesting.

Ellen





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 21:07:25 -0300 (ADT)
From: ladyada@tiac.net (joyce saler)
Subject: RE: PINE

Leslie:
PINE is an acronym for Paperfolders in New England and it was founded by
Joyce Rockmore, Ted Bond, and others with whose names I am not familiar.
Right now, the group leader is Dotti Tolini who can be reached by phone
@617 323 7993. As far as I know there is no e-mail address for the group.

PINE meets on the third Saturday of the month at the Needham Public Library
and the next meeting is September 20th.

If you are interested in visiting the group, the best route is to call Dottie.

Joyce Saler





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 21:19:31 -0300 (ADT)
From: joel@exc.com (Dr. Joel M. Hoffman)
Subject: Wanted:  Vase

I'm looking for a model for a nice vase (in which to put, say,
flowers).  I'm sure I could devise something simple, but equally sure
that others (Brill comes to mind) would do better.  Any pointers?

Thanks.

-Joel
(joel@exc.com)





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:04:11 -0300 (ADT)
From: Richard of Foong <ryf@ecr.mu.oz.au>
Subject: Re: Tiny Crimps

I can see the " Just using hands " discussion approaching... I think.

On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, Rob Moes wrote:

> My secret is a pair of needle-nose tweezers that I used in biology class to
> position fruit-flies under the microscope.  I find them immensely helpful,
> particularly with micro-origami.  <grin>
>
> For very thick multiple-layered crimps (some elephant trunks) I have even
> used needle-nose pliers, on occasion.
>
> Sometimes having the right tool makes all the difference.  Good luck!





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:05:14 -0300 (ADT)
From: Richard of Foong <ryf@ecr.mu.oz.au>
Subject: Regarding list listing

Can anyone tell me how to get the list of peoples names from the list
serve??? What was the command again?





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:40:27 -0300 (ADT)
From: Pat Slider <slider@stonecutter.com>
Subject: Re: Rob Neale's dragon

>My son Andrew loves dragons.  Where do I start searching?

Also in Ansill's "Mythical Beasts" book. Out-of-print but still turns up
in used bookstores regularly.

pat slider
slider@stonecutter.com





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 22:45:07 -0300 (ADT)
From: Pat Slider <slider@stonecutter.com>
Subject: re:tiny crimps/Daedalus

> Hi Ive been trying to fold this model I got off a South American site
> (link from J. Wu's page) called "Dedalo" (must mean angel or something

> like that) by Gabriel Alvarez.

Wonder if this is the same Daedalus model that is in Ansill's "Mythical"
book? I believe that one is by Gabriel Alvarez. The pegasus in that book
is as well. Both great models. Interesting that the daedalus is online
now (I shall have to get it and compare)....Any other Alvarez models
about?

Would check on the crimping but I've mislaid this book somewhere, and
right now I am existing as a baby mattress.

Hey....How about folding one of these daedali from thin waxy paper and
then placing it near a light bulb? Then you could call it Icarus.

Not much help really....

pat slider
slider@stonecutter.com





Date: Tue, 02 Sep 1997 23:34:03 -0300 (ADT)
From: Sheldon Ackerman <ackerman@dorsai.org>
Subject: Re: Regarding list listing

>
> Can anyone tell me how to get the list of peoples names from the list
> serve??? What was the command again?
>
I am almost sure that it is

review origami-l

---
ackerman@dorsai.org
sheldon_ackerman@fc1.nycenet.edu
http://www.dorsai.org/~ackerman





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 00:37:09 -0300 (ADT)
From: mplewinska@mindspring.com (Magdalena Cano Plewinska)
Subject: Re: FUSE QUESTIONS (repost)

On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 18:04:27 -0300 (ADT), "jeffry kerwood"
<jkjeff@hotmail.com> wrote:

>lay flat). Any tips on how to make it stay flat. I thought of weighting
>it down with marbles overnight. I haven't tried it yet but suspect it
>will spoing back after a few days anyway.

I don't know the particular model you are having a problem with, but I
have solved similar problems with other models by wetting the creases
that don't want to stay put and holding them together with paper clips
until dry. Use plastic or plastic-coated paper clips so you don't get
rusty marks on your model.
--
Magda Plewinska
Miami, FL, USA                        mplewinska@mindspring.com





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 00:51:00 -0300 (ADT)
From: Perry Bailey <pbailey@mtayr.heartland.net>
Subject: Re: Wanted:  Vase

Dr. Joel M. Hoffman wrote:
>
> I'm looking for a model for a nice vase (in which to put, say,
> flowers).  I'm sure I could devise something simple, but equally sure
> that others (Brill comes to mind) would do better.  Any pointers?

I found that the goblet from OUSA convention book for 97 can easily be
made into a vase by using a square instead of 1:2 sized paper. all the
folds used are going to be the same regardless of size or type of paper.
the biggest problem is finding a way to weight the bottom so it doesn't
fall over
Perry

>From pbailey@mtayr.heartland.net

***************************************
* Hey, no matter where you go, there  *
* you are.  B. Bonzai :?)'            *





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 00:54:40 -0300 (ADT)
From: mplewinska@mindspring.com (Magdalena Cano Plewinska)
Subject: Re: Regarding list listing

On Tue, 2 Sep 1997 23:34:19 -0300 (ADT), "Sheldon Ackerman"
<ackerman@dorsai.org> wrote:

>> Can anyone tell me how to get the list of peoples names from the list
>> serve??? What was the command again?
>
>review origami-l

Just make sure to mail it to the listserver:  listserver@nstn.ca, not
post it to the list :))))
--
Magda Plewinska
Miami, FL, USA                        mplewinska@mindspring.com





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 04:01:47 -0300 (ADT)
From: Maarten van Gelder <M.J.van.Gelder@rc.rug.nl>
Subject: Re: Regarding list listing

m> >> Can anyone tell me how to get the list of peoples names from the list
m> >> serve??? What was the command again?
m> >
m> >review origami-l
m>
m> Just make sure to mail it to the listserver:  listserver@nstn.ca, not
m> post it to the list :))))

Each month I get the list of members from the listserver and copy it to the
archives in directory origami/lists along with some statistical information.
We had at the 1th of this month 574 members on Origami-L.

Maarten van Gelder,           Rekencentrum RuG,  RijksUniversiteit Groningen
M.J.van.Gelder@rc.rug.nl                            Nederland





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 04:14:08 -0300 (ADT)
From: Maarten van Gelder <M.J.van.Gelder@rc.rug.nl>
Subject: Re: ADMIN:

Roberto,

m> 1) the listserver address. I use listserver@nstn.ca (which has always given
m> a correct feedback), and _not_ listserv@nstn.ca: is this a working alias, or
m> an out-of-date address ?

I used listserv@nstn.ca and that worked. I've changed the address to
listserver....

m> 2) As I had to go out on holiday recently, I've sent a POSTPONE command,
m> receiving this message in reply:
m>
m> MAIL mode reset to POSTPONE
m>
m> ....but it's not true ! I haven't been postponed at all, as on my return
m> I've found about 200  origami-l messages in my mailbox ! <:-(

Maybe the listserver is not only postponing people randomly, but also
unpostponing. And no one has seen that before ... or complained about it.

Maarten van Gelder,           Rekencentrum RuG,  RijksUniversiteit Groningen
M.J.van.Gelder@rc.rug.nl                            Nederland





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 06:30:23 -0300 (ADT)
From: DLister891@aol.com
Subject: Re: Diagram Readability

In his message to Origami-L dated 30th August,1997, D'gou wrote:

<<<I searched the Origami-l archive via Alex Bateman's page (Alex Barber's
 page only goes back a few months), looking for 'lister' 'randlet' and
 'harbin', and I found a number of messages from David Lister recounting
 the "BIG 3" origami books:  Secrets of Origami (Harbin), The Art of
 Origami (Randlett) and The Best of Origami (Randlett) as well as the
 beginnings of "modern" diagramming symbology.  But I was not able to
 find anything on the more general topic of diagram "follow-ability".

 <<<I'm hoping to tease/prod David Lister into making another of his
 interesting and informative posts regarding the next level of diagram
 standardization (if there is one).

<<< It is hard enough to remember, or imagine, as the case may be, how much
 of an improvement the "BIG 3" represent compared to what went before.
 It is much easier, though not entirely fair, to find the faults based
 on our current higher standards.

 -D'gou

 <<<P.S.  to David Lister:  It was a pleasure to re-read your articles on
 Randlett and Harbin and Yoshizawas work to standardize diagramming, but
 upon reflection I find it difficult to believe that there were no
 European folders/diagrammers making substantive contributions to that
 effort.  Sadly, even today, origami books are being released that insist on
 re-inventing, yet again, origami symbols and terminology.>>>

Here is David Lister's teased and prodded reply:

I have to confess and declare that I am NOT an expert on origami diagramming.

The whole prospect of having to diagram something sends me into paroxisms of
terror. I know it's my downfall, because trying to write about paperfolding
without diagrams is like trying to write Hamlet without the Prince. I'm
simply not competent to comment upon "Diagram Folllowability."

Yes, I have previously outlined the revolution that Yoshizawa, Harbin and
Randlett brought to diagramming, but the vast change that they wrought was so
obvious that it was impossible for any paperfolder not to appreciate it. It
was an exciting and liberating chapter in the history of paperfolding.

D'gou asks me to do two things. First, to say what European
folders/diagrammers contributed to the development of origami diagramming.
And secondly, to recount developments in the standardisation of origami
diagrams _since_ the contributions of Yoshizawa. Harbin and Randlett.

As to the earlier period, I think that it can safely be said that there were
no specific, useful contributions. Of course there were diagrams. Authors of
such books as there were on paperfolding stuggled in different ways to draw
diagrams illustrative of their text with varying degrees of success, but they
were not, in fact, very successful at all. Some supplementred theeir outline
step diagrams with perspectove drawings. Some added letters at the corners. A
few used photographs. Look at the diagrams in Murray and Rigney, in Houdini
and Will Blyth and those in Margaret Campbell. There was no conventional way
of diagramming and no descernable evolution of diagramming technique. Or look
at the works of Dr. Vicente Solorzano. Solorzano first attempted to use
photographs, as in his various books of Papirolas. Then in his mammoth
Papiroflexia Zoomorfica, he emplyed a laboured style of instructions,
combined with diagrams with letters at their corners which would not be out
of place in an old-fashioned school geometry book. The result is turgid. Of
course, for non-Spanish speakers, the language barrier adds to the
difficulty, but Papiroflexia Zoomorfica must be one of the largest and yet
least-read paperfolding books of all time..

"Step" diagrams are very old. They can be seen in a Japanese context in the
"Kayaragusa" (Kan no mado) of about 1850. However, it was Yoshizawa who
brought about the real revolution. By adopting different dotted lines for
mountain and valley folds and by using arrows to show the moves in the paper,
he at once transformed static diagrams into dynamic pictures. Yoshizawa
today, still uses his original system and he has not laced it with the
additions of Harbin and Randlett and their successors.

The Harbin-Randlett  system is essentially that of Yoshizawa. Harbin's
contribution was the identification of a few frequent key moves, like squash
fold, petal fold, crimp and rabbit ear, which help us to follow the diagrams.
Randlett named the standard bases and systmatised a selection of symbols
additional to those of Yoshizawa's. (who still managed to do without them!).

Since them, many authors have tried to refine the system. Randlett has always
jealously defended it against innovations, resisting any changes except where
they gave the clearest advantage. Harbin introduced new symbols himself.
(Especially his slashed arrow to mean "repeat behind").Howver, I have never
perceived that there has been any general consensus on any of the additions
and no further general evolution of the system. We have no Academie
Origamique to lay down the law, and perhaps this is as well.

Personally, I haver never found it difficult to follow any author's chosen
method of symbols and diagramming. It seems to me that what makes some
diagrams easier to follow than others is not the system, but the competence
of the diagrams themselves and the sequence and clarity of the steps
illustrated.

In this connection, there has always been criticism of Robert Harbin's books.
The first, "Paper Magic", which dated from before the intoduction of
Yoshizawa's symbols got round the problem by using perspective drawings. The
book was illustrated freehand by Rolf Harris, from Downunder, and he was an
absolute genius at spontaneous illustration.(He is know to British audiences
as a lively television personality, the opening for which, he owed much to
Robert Harbin).
But when it came to "Secrets of Origami" Rolf was no longer available and
Robert Harbin resigned himself to drawing the diagrams for the book from
scratch, following what we now know as the Yoshizawa-Harbin-Randlett system.
He progressed with his freehand drawing considerably, learning as he went on.
So much did he improve that he scrapped his first set of diagrams and started
all over  again. But he still made mistakes and "Secrets" contains many
ambiguous instructions. For the new edition, Mick Guy has done a "light"
revision, smoothing out the more blatant errors, but time prevented him from
doing a thoroughgoing revision. So obscure points remain. But how much more
lucid is "Secrets of Origami" 1963) than its near contemporary, "Papiroflexia
Zoomorfica (!962).

Since then, we have had over thirty years to get used to the system and there
have naturally been improvements in standards. It would be possible to
chronicle the intoduction of new symbols and also to analyse the influence of
styles of a succession of diagrammers with various approaches, the effect of
new techniques, above all the use of the computer for diagramming.  It would,
no doubt,  be a valuable exercise to try to chronicle it, but I do not think
it would make much of a connected, still less a rivetting. story.

In summary, in the field of diagramming, not much happened before
Yoshizawa-Harbin-Randlett. And not a great deal has happened since then.

David Lister.

Grimsby, England.

DLister891@AOL.com





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 08:04:06 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Nancy B. McNitt" <nbm@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: Tiny Crimps

Sharp pointed tweezers have worked for me when I need to make several crimps
for wing feathers, etc.
Gelnn McNitt
At 03:24 AM 9/2/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Hi Ive been trying to fold this model I got off a South American site
>(link from J. Wu's page) called "Dedalo" (must mean angel or something
>like that) by Gabriel Alvarez.
>I don't know if any of you are familiar with this model or not but it is
>a model of a winged man (or angel) and looks unreal (in the picture anyway)!!
>I haven't been able to fold much more than a crumpled mess so far because
>of the many, very small, multiple layer crimps involved.
>Is there any sort of secret or technique you guys use to fold such crimps.
>
>Thank you for any help you can give me as I'd love to be able to fold
>this model for my girlfriend who's sick in hospital at the moment.
>
>-Graeme Smyth
>gjsmyth@aelmg.adelaide.edu.au





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 08:48:52 -0300 (ADT)
From: kuga@ims.ac.jp (KUGA Takako)
Subject: RE: FUSE QUESTIONS

Cathy>I only have book 1 but have had good luck with American Foil.

I used paper of which calendar is made. You can fold the paper easily and
the completed spirals is strong and is not unfixed. I made one for my kitty
whoes name is 'raiko'(that means thunder kid in Japanese) . But She did not
destroy for about a month.

Cathy>> 2) Whats good paper to use for Fuse spirals (esp. pages 6, 63 & 68 of
Cathy>> the Fuse book mentioned above). I tried 4 or 5 different papers for
Cathy>> page
Cathy>> 6 and all but one of them "slumped" after a few days so that the
Cathy>> rounded
Cathy>> edge that it sits on became flat. The one paper that did not slump was
Cathy>> a
Cathy>> bit too thick. So, any good papers for this that aren't too thick?
Cathy>>
*******************************************
         KUGA  Takako

Institute for Molecular Science, Okazaki  444 Japan
tel: +81 -564-55-7453 Fax: +81 -564-54-2254
e-mail:kuga@ims.ac.jp





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 10:09:58 -0300 (ADT)
From: jfrmpls <jfrmpls@spacestar.net>
Subject: Re: Wanted:  Vase

One of my favorite vases in in "Origami: Creative Ideas for Paperfolding"
by Gay Merrill Gross (p, 38). It is called Flowerpot and was designed by
Florence Temko.  It looks a bit like a brioche mold, but has points
instead of curves. The book is out of print, but GMG's new book, "Paper
Creations," which I have not seen, contains models from "Creative Ideas,"
and may contain this vase.

Another vase I like is in Tomoko Fuse's "Origami Four Seasons" (p. 46). I
believe it is a traditional model. It has something of a heavy, art deco
look.

A simple, tall rectangular vase is on page 79 of "Fiori in Origami" by
Guido Gazzera.

Have fun.

-Jane Rosemarin





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 10:20:21 -0300 (ADT)
From: jeffry kerwood <jkjeff@hotmail.com>
Subject: RE: FUSE QUESTIONS (repost)

Cortiz wrote about paper for Fuse spirals
>I only have [Fuse Spiral] book 1 but have had good luck with >American
Foil.
>Have you tried it?

hummmm.  No i haven't.  Is it real foil - I can't imagine doing this
stuff with foil. I know I'm not good enough to do that. Do you get it at
FF or  OUSA?

Thanks,
Jeff ( JKJEFF@HOTMAIL.COM )

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 12:34:35 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Extra steps...

Howard Portugal <howardp@fast.net> sez

>If the author or
>diagrammer has taken the time to create a set of diagrams for a model,
>I cannot see why they wouldn't include one more diagram which would
>add to its clarity.

In theory, I agree, but tell that to prolific creators who don't
particularly enjoy diagramming! I'm sure most diagrammers have reached
the last 2 steps & had to move to a second page - very frustrating. If
the diagrams are to be published, then no effort should be spared, but
providing enough instruction for a few friends to work with is another
matter. Time is precious for most of us. There's always the satisfaction
and skill involved in puzzling out (for example) Elias' minimal
diagrams!

all the best,

Nick Robinson

email           nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk - now with RealAudio clips!





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 13:13:18 -0300 (ADT)
From: Howard Portugal <howardp@fast.net>
Subject: Re: Extra steps...

> Nick Robinson wrote:

> If the diagrams are to be published, then no effort should be spared, but
> providing enough instruction for a few friends to work with is another
> matter. Time is precious for most of us. There's always the satisfaction
> and skill involved in puzzling out (for example) Elias' minimal
> diagrams!

I guess it all comes down to the purpose of the diagrams. If they
are going to be published for general consumption, then I agree,
no effort should be spared. I suppose the folder must keep in mind
the diagrammer's intended audience before they judge the diagrams
too harshly.

Ciao,

Howard

--
Howard Portugal   |  When you have eliminated the impossible,
West Chester, PA  |  whatever remains, however improbable,
howardp@fast.net  |  must be the truth.
                 |  Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
                 |  Sherlock Holmes, in The Sign of Four, ch. 6 (1889).





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 15:45:19 -0300 (ADT)
From: Rob Moes <robert.moes@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Tiny Crimps

Richard of Foong <ryf@ecr.mu.oz.au> in reply to my post:

>I can see the " Just using hands " discussion approaching... I think.

Hopefully we can limit such discussion to those who just use tiny hands!
As I recall, the original poster asked for a trick.  Hands probably
resulted in a crumpled mess.... it does happen when you're not that
well-versed in crimping.

Every once in a while I see a model that I would like to try a curved
crimp.  In that case my little tool won't help:  I usually end up using a
fingernail to gently score the paper--ideally on the side that is to be the
valley fold of the crimp.

Rob





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 15:48:53 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Ortiz, Cathy" <CORTIZ@foxsportsintl.com>
Subject: RE: FUSE QUESTIONS (repost)

It's heavier than Japanese foil and much easier to work with. (More
forgiving). I think it's prettier too. It's got a nice frosty sheen to
it. I  purchased it at OUSA convention. It comes in packages of 100 in
assorted or all one color for about $7.00.   Good Luck.
Cortiz.
> ----------
>
> hummmm.  No i haven't.  Is it real foil - I can't imagine doing this
> stuff with foil. I know I'm not good enough to do that. Do you get it
> at
> FF or  OUSA?
>
> Thanks,
> Jeff ( JKJEFF@HOTMAIL.COM )
>
>
> ______________________________________________________
> Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 15:49:48 -0300 (ADT)
From: Maldon7929@aol.com
Subject: Reading Archive Diagrams

HELP!

Some time ago an offer was made to assist with viewing archive diagrams.  I
think by Valerie V'Ann or Alex Bateman.  If one of you would post me
privately, when time allows, I'll explain the problem in more detail.

Thank you,

Maldon





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 15:57:22 -0300 (ADT)
From: RA Kennedy <kennedra@isdugp.bham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Wanted:  Vase

Have you considered the delightful vase by Saburo Kase? Diagrams
appear in Eric Kenneway's "Origami: Paperfolding for Fun". Kase-san
is a very remarkable man - he is blind, and creates purely by feel!

Richard K
(R.A.Kennedy@bham.ac.uk)





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 15:58:36 -0300 (ADT)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: FUSE QUESTIONS (repost)

On Tue, 2 Sep 1997, jeffry kerwood wrote:
> 1) After making the model on page 6 of the Fuse spiral book 2 (at least
> I think it is 2, ISBN 4-480-87262-0) the model was "spoingy" (wouldn't
> lay flat). Any tips on how to make it stay flat.

I don't know this model, but perhaps you should try to frame it?

Yours, Sebastian               sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de,skirsch@t-online.de





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 15:59:46 -0300 (ADT)
From: Chris Miller <chris@ori.net>
Subject: Origami Paper

 Hello all,

I am getting kinda short on my paper supply and have been looking at online
sources for getting more.  I've looked at a few, but I was hoping that I
could get some help from you guys. :)
First of all, are Kim's Crane and Fascinating Folds reputable sources?  Not
to offend the parties, but if I sent an order in would i be sure to get what
I ordered?
And, could anyone direct me to where I could get some cataogues for paper..
if there are any snailmail catalogues for paper besides OUSA. :)  Thanks in
advance..

 - c

~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*~*
~* C Miller    :) ~*
~*  chris@ori.net ~*





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 16:30:40 -0300 (ADT)
From: mitchell@quail.MSAnet.com (ID 601198 - Leslie Mitchell)
Subject: Re: Origami Paper

Chris-- as far as on-line services for paper, I have used Kim's Crane several
times & have been very pleased with the service & materials. Their website has
nice color images of much of their paper selection. I have ordered by phone &
they ship by Priority Mail. I have not used Fascinating Folds yet as the color
images on their website are partly under construction but they look good so far.
For paper catalogues, I have used OUSA's but it does not have any color photos,
only text info. Happy hunting!!

Leslie Mitchell





Date: Wed, 03 Sep 1997 17:09:19 -0300 (ADT)
From: Chris Miller <chris@ori.net>
Subject: Re: Origami Paper

Thanks all for your responses. :)  I think I will order from both, seeing
that i found my favorite print paper (rameru waves :p)
 -c

>Chris-- as far as on-line services for paper, I have used Kim's Crane
several
>times & have been very pleased with the service & materials. Their website
has
>nice color images of much of their paper selection. I have ordered by phone
&
>they ship by Priority Mail. I have not used Fascinating Folds yet as the
color
>images on their website are partly under construction but they look good so
far.
>For paper catalogues, I have used OUSA's but it does not have any color
photos,
>only text info. Happy hunting!!
>
>Leslie Mitchell
