




Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:21:23 -0300 (ADT)
From: Mike and Janet Hamilton <mikeinnj@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: Cheetah search and other things...

Amy Huang wrote:
>         Also, this is probably a stupid question, but how can I reach the
> archives of this list?

The mail archives can be found at file://ftp.rug.nl/origami/index.htm.

Janet Hamilton

--
mailto:Mikeinnj@concentric.net
http://www.concentric.net/~Mikeinnj/





Date: Tue, 24 Jun 1997 23:22:10 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: non-geometric modulars

Oh, yes: Tomoko Fuse's wonderful articulated
lizard is in her Action Toys book (a Japanese
language book). I don't have my Fuse book list
handy, but someone will chime in with the ISBN
and Romanji title.

And isn't there a centipede, in one of the OUSA
Annual Collections and/or the origami-L archive?

--valerie





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 01:34:29 -0300 (ADT)
From: morpha <morpha@columbia-pacific.interrain.org>
Subject: Re: Comments to list Sunday's Digest

> There seems to be too much emphasis on "claiming" and trying to own things
> today, rather than appreciating the skill of the creator.
> What people should be concerned with is furthering the craft rather than
> claiming, or trying to claim, "original folds".  They  should be trying
> to find new ways to present, to use, to display, to make WANTED the
> creations of the craft. When the craft becomes wanted, collected,
> sought after, then ART evolves.

I have not seen this strong an emphasis. We would all like to further
origami, as you can see when a member posts an exciting "origami
sighting"
to the list! We are always happy to see origami in the eyes of the
general public!
<snip>

As one of the relatively new and mostly silent members, I have felt a
bit shy about posting.

I am currently working on some origami, driftwood, and bead mobiles that
I plan to donate to a local county office that has no budget for artwork
in public areas. Part of the joy of origami for me is its transient
mature, nonetheless in order to share the joy of a particular creation
with others over a long period of time, some permanence is required.

Perhaps I deviate from the subject here.  Those that may be offended may
feel free to stop reading and hit the delete button right now.

Anyway, I would like some input on a substance that I can use on the
finished origami to make it stronger and stiffer.  The level of humidity
here in Astoria, Oregon is high, and I am afraid that unprotected
origami will disintegrate in a few months.

If we could buy finished origami, then we wouldn't need to fold it would
we?

Morpha





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 02:02:44 -0300 (ADT)
From: morpha <morpha@columbia-pacific.interrain.org>
Subject: How I got started

I recall first attempting origami when about 9 or 10 years old.  I had
difficulty with the instructions and don't actually recall completing
any models.  I think I was mostly in love with the bright rainbow colors
of the paper.

Last Christmas, I opted to spend the holiday alone instead of visiting
my family in California as usual.  I wanted to have a small Christmas
tree in my apartment, but all my ornaments were in storage in
California.

A little light bulb went off in my head, and I decided to make origami
ornaments for my tree.  Armed with all the origami books I could find in
the local library, I spent Christmas Eve and Christmas Day folding.  It
was a wonderful Christmas!

In January, I flew to Dutch Harbor, Alaska as (I usually do every
January) to board a commercial fishing vessel to work as a Fisheries
Biologist.  At sea, I am on the job 24 hours per day, and every day is
the same, boring.  This year, I took a few hundred sheets of origami
paper and a couple of Montroll's books to sea with me.

After more than 100 days on the job, my stateroom was festooned with
more than 70 models.  Suspended from the ceiling by strands of dental
floss, they danced in rhythm with the sea.  I gave "critters" to nearly
everyone I encountered.  Several other fishing vessels in the fleet
sported my animals in the galley or the wheelhouse.  Origami helped keep
me sane.

Now that I have returned home, I am obsessed.

Morpha





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 02:15:41 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jin Lin <jlche3@student.monash.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Comments to list Sunday's Digest

> > There seems to be too much emphasis on "claiming" and trying to own things
(...snip!...)
> > sought after, then ART evolves.

I just wanted to say that I think maybe some of those people really did
come up with those designs. Independantly, if you know what I mean.
Especially the simpler or the symmetrical ones. And I can understand why
they would be proud of saying, "I made this!". The joy of creation,
something like that. So maybe the problem isn't that bad.

> Anyway, I would like some input on a substance that I can use on the
(..snip!..)
> origami will disintegrate in a few months.

The only thing I can think of is white glue, but that's not likely to
help much if it's really that humid. Maybe you could try fabric folding
instead of paper. Here's a web page on fabric folding:
http://www.owt.com/gdscott/

> If we could buy finished origami, then we wouldn't need to fold it would
> we?
Good heavens, I hope not! Where would all the fun be then?

Jin Lin





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 02:48:34 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jin Lin <jlche3@student.monash.edu.au>
Subject: Re: Kawasaki's Rose: Help!

Like, wow, this is a really quick way to get an answer! I should've
done this earlier. My heartfelt thanks to everyone who replied.

        I guess I must've left some things out. Actually I've already
downloaded the diagrams in the archives and successfully folded them.
That was what got me searching for the original, because there was a
note on it somewhere that said the diagrammer had been taught by the
creator at some convention.

        I figured that there was probably more good stuff in the book (and
Sebastian has given me hope; he mentions Kawasaki has created dozens of
roses) which is why I'm looking for the book. But I couldn't find out
the publisher's name, and I wasn't even sure if I got the author's name
right, let alone go look for it!

        As to which rose is better, if Eric's photo is true, then I must say I
agree with Valerie Vann; it looks more realistic than the ones I made.

        Thank you all again. Happy paper-folding!

Jin Lin





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 03:58:10 -0300 (ADT)
From: Postcards <postcards@postcards.com>
Subject: Re: ORIGAMI-L digest 761

>Eric Andersen <ema@techhouse.cis.brown.edu> wrote
>> If an FAQ/INFO post was made every week or so, or there was a sig-line that
>> pointed to a page of links of BEGINNER information in  a digest able form,
>> perhaps a list of links to the history, basic folds, and diagrams that a
new
>> user, educator, or novice folder could browse and use for their own or
>> classroom needs you'd find more participation rising.
>
>Well, there are many origami sites on the web designed for beginners. We
>just learned of the www.learn2.com site, which teaches a few simple folds.
>There is a wealth of information on Joseph Wu's site about history, basic
>folds, and diagrams that anyone can browse and use:
>

Again, the point is missed.

List posts are ephemeral and ethereal and most people cannot figure out or
do not have the tools to search the archives.  If it's not presented in a
timely fashion, such as a weekly post, or pointer in sig lines, they will
never find them, and eventually sign off, or drift off.   This is why
Usenet groups post their FAQ every week, or two, depending on traffic.

Traversing websites from systems like AOL is time consuming, yet that is
the first exposure many people get.  It may be all the access some people
and educators have.  The idea is to create a resource and reference that
these people can access quickly.

I spent an inordinate amount of time searching the web for origami, and
found many different sites, some small niches pages with a word on it,
as well as the archives and sites you had listed.

It's a painstaking (time consuming) process to separate the wheat from
the chaff, the information sites from the image sites, the resources from
the displays.

I'm not trying to stir anything up, reading a list or newsgroup should
be a pleasurable event, not an act one dreads.  I posted in response to
some posts, and some replies, and my opinions can be accepted or not, by
any individual or not.

The list is an instantaneous slice.  Websites are linked just like a
spider web (hmmmm....) and getting from one to another is not always an
easy task.  It's often difficult to find the link you were looking for,
or to wind your way back to a site you remember.  The newer  you are to
the net, the more difficult and intimidating it all is.  I do a lot of
consulting with artists and professional people, and some have a big
mental block that makes this whole process difficult because they believe
it has to be.

Sometimes the sites are not responsive.  Or the paths to them are slow.
Their browsers stop, and they don't know why, they feel their software
crashed again, or they did something wrong.

To that end, I've offered to add to the number of stable sites a place
where those who need a place for pages.  I'll also develop a set of links
with descriptions drawing on the thousands of pages I visited.

I have the resources to maintain the site, and to add disk space to it
as needed.  Storage is not a problem IF people are willing to contribute
valuable information that helps educate and inform others.  That is how
I can justify the site.  If the site becomes a resource teachers and
educators, at any level and for any reason, can access and use, then it's
a service PUGDOG Enterprises will continue to supply.  If people have a
slow site, we'd be happy to mirror them as well, to split the load as it
were.  We'd also mirror overseas sites for US audiences, which will
speed their access greatly.  But it's all up to you.

What I hope to have as the nucleus of the site is information - history,
what's available, links to other sites with more in depth studies.  I'd
like to get an archive of documents that people can download, and print
out and use to teach classes, with lists of reference material, catalogs
of books with a synopsis, etc.  In short, a collection of resources for
teaching.  In addition, we'll make space for those who have personal
origami pages to share to give encouragement to others and to encourage
discussion.

People will have an easily remembered domain to start from, "origami.net"
and that will help as well.

This is our contribution to the cause, but it requires your contributions
as well.

-rsp-
PUGDOG Enterprises, Inc.





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 06:14:42 -0300 (ADT)
From: HOLMES DAVID MARCUS EXC CH <david_marcus.holmes@chbs.mhs.ciba.com>
Subject: Fuse's Action Lizard (was RE: non-geometric modulars)

Hi,

>> I am not sure who was looking for the non-geometric modulars, but there
>> is a cute articulated lizard by Tomoko Fuse in one of the books by Steve
>> and Megumi Biddle.  I think it is the book "The New Origami".  If it
>> isn't that book, it is "Essential Origami".  The lizard is made from
>> about 8? pieces or so, most of them starting the same, with variations on
>> the base for the head, tail, and leg pieces.  They are all joined
>> together so the lizard can bend his body from side to side.
>>
>> Nancy Backes

I can't believe I forgot about this!  The lizard was one of the first
models I folded from "The New Origami", and I put it on display at
the first BOS convention I attended last year.  The book as a whole
includes a wide variety of models and I heartily recommend it.  Here
are the details:

    "The New Origami" by Steve & Megumi Biddle
    Ebury Press (ISBN 0 09177 667 8)

There is also a photo of the cover at my website:

    http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2162/biddle1.jpg

I think when I have both Internet access *and* access to the book
(which will be when I get back to University in England) I'll put
up a photo of the Lizard.

Dave

>--
>David M Foulds       | Novartis, Inc. Views expressed are my own
>dmfoulds@bigfoot.com `------------------------------------------
>Dave's Origami - http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2162/
>Other Stuff    - http://www.fortunecity.com/tattooine/clarke/25/
>
>Please note my change of surname and email address, current name
>in header fields notwithstanding.





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 06:53:19 -0300 (ADT)
From: Diana Davey <davey@key.net.au>
Subject: Re: Substance to make origami stronger

At 01:34 25/06/97 -0300, Morpha  wrote:

>Anyway, I would like some input on a substance that I can use on the
>finished origami to make it stronger and stiffer.  The level of humidity
>here in Astoria, Oregon is high, and I am afraid that unprotected
>origami will disintegrate in a few months.
>
I have successfully used PVA glue on models to make them stronger.  It makes
them shiny, which is not always desirable, but otherwise does not affect the
quality of the paper other than to make it slightly stronger and definitely
mould resistant - also a problem where I come from.  I've heard that other
people use Shellac (spelling??) just as is used in decoupage.

Hope this helps.

Diana Davey
Emerald Beach, NSW, Australia





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 07:12:08 -0300 (ADT)
From: Diana Davey <davey@key.net.au>
Subject: Questions and comments from a newcomer

Dear all,

I have been reading with interest the discussions over the past few days
about the list.  I find it heartening to learn that there are people with so
many different philosophies attracted to the art/craft of origami.  I hope
that the list subscribers can give to both ends of the spectrum - to the
beginners and to the experts amongst you.  Whilst I am not a raw beginner, I
have much to learn about origami.  I hope to learn from people on this list
and in turn help people where I can.  I see that as the role of a list like
this.

Thankyou to whoever posted to pointer to the Pennsylvanian German star.  It
came at a time when I am "into" stars (amongst other things) so I have been
having great fun with a completely non-Japanese "origami".

I am also heavily into boxes at the moment and any pointers to sources of
boxes other than Tomoko Fuse would be greatly appreciated.  I am fortunate
enough to be able to read Japanese fluently so any Japanese pointers are
welcome.  (Would love to translate origami books if I only knew where to start!)

Last question, but can anyone advise me how to get access to the list
archives.  I have tried but with no success.  I need step by step
instructions!  I'm not very "list-literate"!

Thanks

Diana Davey
Emerald Beach, NSW, Australia





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 07:39:02 -0300 (ADT)
From: Perry Bailey <pbailey@mtayr.heartland.net>
Subject: Re: ORIGAMI-L digest 760

Postcards wrote:
>
> >Good for you that you came out of the closet to post your feelings about
> >the matter and shared how origami has touched your life and what direction
> >you would like to see origami head in.  You have a very ambitious goal.
> >Good luck.
> >
> >Geoline, signing-off the list as a courtesy for those who require courtesy.
>
> This is almost exactly what I mean.  This too is another long standing
> cliche of the Internet.  When a person doesn't get their way, no matter
> how many people they offend -- even when there was an open discussion --
> they make a dramatic sign off.  This is designed to 1) create a groundswell
> of support for them to boost their ego, or 2) to simply create a sense of
> disorder in which they can delight or return as saviour.
>
> Either way, it's not conducive to bringing new posters into the fold.
>
> People asked why no newbies seem to post and this is the response of the
> long standing list 'leaders' .....  Any other questions?
>
> Robert S. Pataki, MD
> PUGDOG Enterprises, Inc.

Excuse me, but at least she contributes to list with out deliberatley
trying to offend, I wish I could say the same about you.  If I have to
take a choice as to who's e-mail I would rather read, it would be
geolines not yours.  Her comments are entertaining and often witty,
yours seem to be mean and sarcastic.  You like a poll from the entire
list as to whom we would prefer to hear from?  A zen humorist or you?
What did she do to offend you that you treat her in this manner?  If her
only sin is changing the subject when the subject begins to become to
heated, which of the other would be peace makers do you intend to go
after next?  Either lurk quietly or contribute constructively.
perry
--
>From pbailey@mtayr.heartland.net

***************************************
* Your Life is only what you make it. *





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 07:51:29 -0300 (ADT)
From: Perry Bailey <pbailey@mtayr.heartland.net>
Subject: book binding

> Or some libraries may have simply dropped it because it fell apart.
> This seems to be a frequent problem with this book, I have heard of
> several people whose OFTC is falling apart, and mine is already
> beginning to loose pages. :-(

May I recomend "Bokk Binding" by Manley Bannister, It can probably be
obtained by your local library and is an excellent book.

--
>From pbailey@mtayr.heartland.net

***************************************
* Your Life is only what you make it. *
* so make it good. :?)'               *





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 09:51:05 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Dr. Moze" <DrMoze@pressroom.com>
Subject: Kawasaki rose conspiracy?

With all the discussion of the Kawasaki roses (OftC and 'Rose II' with
diagrams available on the web), I have to wonder: Is there a conspiracy
suppressing the original rose diagrams? OftC is out of print, and
peoiple seem to prefer that rose model. Can't *someone* here get the
author's/publisher's permission to make diagrams of this one (very)
popular model available????

It is frustrating hearing how wonderful the OftC rose model is, when I
have near zilcho chance of locating a copy of this book (at a reasonable
price). I'm sure I'm not the only list member who feels this way. Has
anyone tried to get permission to make diagrams of this model available?
If I read once more how the OftC rose model is "simpler, easier, and
nicer to fold" than the Rose II, I think I'll *scream*!!!

I think it really *is* a conspiracy to drive we 'have-nots' nuts. $^)

--

      Dr. Moze   <DrMoze@pressroom.com>





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:31:29 -0300 (ADT)
From: Wayne Fluharty <wflu@hotmail.com>
Subject: Re: finished origami "bond"

>Anyway, I would like some input on a substance that I can use on the
>finished origami to make it stronger and stiffer.  The level of
humidity
>here in Astoria, Oregon is high, and I am afraid that unprotected
>origami will disintegrate in a few months.

I haven't tried it myself yet, but in most hobby shops, in the jigsaw
puzzle section, they make a finish coating that you can apply to puzzles
also has the added bonus of being clear. As I said, I have yet to try
it, so if someone does, could they let me know how it works.

Flu (Wayne Fluharty)
wflu@hotmail.com

---------------------------------------------------------
Get Your *Web-Based* Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:33:39 -0300 (ADT)
From: Matthias Gutfeldt <Tanjit@bboxbbs.ch>
Subject: (NO): I'm so sorry!

Hi all,

if I had known that my small note about subject lines would
disrupt this mailing list so much I wouldn't have posted it.
I have to apologize and will try to behave in the future.

Matthias, wishing he hadn't brought up the subject...





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:35:20 -0300 (ADT)
From: Amy Huang <ahuang@gpu.srv.ualberta.ca>
Subject: Postscript format

Hi there!

        I just downloaded the Kawasaki rose diagrams from the archives...but
I think I need complete guidance! How can I view the postscript format that
I just downloaded?

Amy
http://www.angelfire.com/la/Lal





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 11:49:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: chall@scsn.net (Carol Hall)
Subject: Re: Substance to make origami stronger

>>Anyway, I would like some input on a substance that I can use on the
>>finished origami to make it stronger and stiffer.  The level of humidity
>>here in Astoria, Oregon is high, and I am afraid that unprotected
>>origami will disintegrate in a few months.

Some of the folks who make origami jewelry use a polymer finish called
Enviro-Tex Lite, which is put out by a company called Environmental
Technology Inc., P.O. Box 365, Fields Landing CA  95537; (707) 443-9323.  It
can usually be found in craft stores and possibly home improvement stores.

This stuff provides a plastic finish, and I believe it only comes in a gloss
finish.  You mix it from two compounds like epoxy glue.  It has highly toxic
fumes so must be used in a WELL ventilated area.  It does provide a durable
coating which should withstand humidity well.  (I've seen it used on
restaurant table tops to embed pennies.)  There are a few tricks to using it
on paper as opposed to more durable surfaces, so you might need to
experiment a bit.

Mark Kennedy, who is probably best known for using this coating on jewelry,
has contributed a chapter "Sealing and Preserving Origami Models" in the
OUSA publication titled _Decorating and Enhancing Paper for Origami_.  It is
available through The Source, the supply house for OUSA.

Note that there may well be other brands of similar products.  This is just
the one that I happen to have a label for.  I have not used this stuff
personally because I don't have a well-ventilated place to work.

Hope this helps!
Carol Hall
chall@scsn.net





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:13:53 -0300 (ADT)
From: Fernando Aldea <faldea@ctc-mundo.net>
Subject: Need shark diagrams

Hi everyone!

My name is Fernando and Im new in the list.
I'm searching for diagrams of realistic sharks. I have ones already, but
they are very simple and figurative. So please help me.

Yours,

Fernando Aldea P.
Diseador Integral U.C.V.
Via del Mar, Chile.





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:19:01 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Edward J. Crankshaw II" <ejcranks@hiwaay.net>
Subject: URL Change

Greetings all,

The history of origami paper at:
http://dubhe.cc.nps.navy.mil/~ejcranks/arth193b.html

is now at:
http://fly.hiwaay.net/~ejcranks/arth193b.html

if you have my origami page listed on your site and I haven't found it
to advise you of the change of service providers, please make the
change.

Thank you,

Ed





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:19:32 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jennifer Andre <JAndre@cfipro.com>
Subject: NO:  Translating Postscript Format into Humanspeak

     To translate PostScript files into something we humans can read
     ("Portable Document Format" or *.pdf), use Adobe Acrobat Reader!  I
     think it's available via the Web and it's shareware that you can
     download.  I'm sorry, I don't have the actual address.

     - Jennifer
     JAndre@cfipro.com
     Portland, Oregon, USA

     Fold it, ergo sum





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:26:53 -0300 (ADT)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: [NO] Courtesy, Zen, perceptions (Re: ORIGAMI-L digest 760)

On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Perry Bailey wrote to Robert Pataki:

=Excuse me, but at least she contributes to list with out deliberatley
=trying to offend, I wish I could say the same about you.  If I have to
=take a choice as to who's e-mail I would rather read, it would be
=geolines not yours.  Her comments are entertaining and often witty,
=yours seem to be mean and sarcastic.  You like a poll from the entire
=list as to whom we would prefer to hear from?  A zen humorist or you?
=What did she do to offend you that you treat her in this manner?  If her
=only sin is changing the subject when the subject begins to become to
=heated, which of the other would be peace makers do you intend to go
=after next?  Either lurk quietly or contribute constructively.

So what is better? Someone who very plainly spells out what he thinks and
wants (as Robert does), or someone who tries to forward her own agenda using
smoke and mirrors? Geoline seems to be a very nice person, and she does have
something to contribute, but too often she DOES go way off topic. "Zen humour"
is well and good, but origami is not Zen Buddhism and Zen Buddhism is not
origami. Geoline tries to merge the two and, in her own way, gets upset with
people who do not agree with her point of view. All of this is sugar-coated
with humour and "Zen archery", of course.

I'm sorry about how this all sounds. I don't mean to make a personal attack
against Geoline. However, I wanted to show that we all have our own agendas.
All of us. Just because some people are more forward and state those agendas
more clearly does not mean that they're the only ones who have them.

As for contributing constructively, I think that Robert is making a huge
contribution with his "origami.net" server.

 Joseph Wu - origami@planet.datt.co.jp - http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami
> It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on
yourself. We can teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach you how YOU
paint. There's More Than One Way To Do It.
> Have the appropriate amount of fun.    --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:33:22 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jennifer Andre <JAndre@cfipro.com>
Subject: Re: Substance to make origami stronger

     I'm an impatient person.  I've been happiest using ribbon stiffener.
     It's a spray-on substance.  I strongly recommend spraying it outside
     with the model placed on waxed paper.  Sometimes even waxed paper
     sticks to the model.  It dries in about an hour or two, I think.

     One coat made some of my mini-cranes into dangerous weapons. ;-P

     Jennifer
     JAndre@cfipro.com
     Portland, Oregon, USA

     Fold it, ergo sum!





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 12:59:12 -0300 (ADT)
From: John Marcolina <jmarcoli@cisco.com>
Subject: Re: Need shark diagrams

Try John Montroll's blue shark, from "Origami Sea Life" (by Montroll and
Lang). This is one of my favorite models - incredibly detailed, and it's a
great wet-folding subject too! Plus this book is chock-full of great models.
It's a must-have book for any serious collector (IMHO).

John Marcolina
San Jose, CA.
jmarcoli@cisco.com

At 12:14 PM 6/25/97 -0300, you wrote:
>Hi everyone!
>
>My name is Fernando and Im new in the list.
>I'm searching for diagrams of realistic sharks. I have ones already, but
>they are very simple and figurative. So please help me.
>
>Yours,
>
>Fernando Aldea P.
>Diseador Integral U.C.V.
>Via del Mar, Chile.





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:07:43 -0300 (ADT)
From: Bruce Stephens <B.Stephens@isode.com>
Subject: Re: Need shark diagrams

faldea@ctc-mundo.net said:
> My name is Fernando and I4m new in the list. I'm searching for
> diagrams of realistic sharks. I have ones already, but they are very
> simple and figurative. So please help me.

"Origami Sealife", by R.Lang and J.Montroll has one, which, if memory serves,
     is quite nice.





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:13:17 -0300 (ADT)
From: Lisa Hodsdon <Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com>
Subject: Re: Kawasaki rose conspiracy?

Dr. Moze (DrMoze @ pressroom.com) asked:

>Is there a conspiracy
>suppressing the original rose diagrams? OftC is out of print, <snip>

Has anyone tried to talk the publisher into reprinting OFTC?
I remember one of the origami suppliers (Bren from Fascinating
Folds?) talking about contacting publishers to encourage
reprints. Perhaps we need a grass roots push? While there's
certainly a higher number among origami-l than the general
public who would buy the book were it available we aren't the
*entire* audience for this book. Twelve to twenty letters to
the publisher might go a long way towards getting it reprinted.

I don't have OFTC here at my desk. A look at the archives tells me
it's a Japan Publications book. I found this address on the web:

Japan Publications

c/o Shin Nichibo Bldg.
1-2-1 Sarugaku-Cho
Chiyoda-Ku, Tokyo, Japan
101
Tel: 03-3295-8411

One of the messages in the archives leads me to believe that they have
a New York office, but I can't find an address for them there. The New
York office would seem to be the easier place to send a letter. (For those
of us in the States, anyway.) Do they  have one? Can anyone else find the
address?

Lisa (why whine when you can act?) Hodsdon
Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:30:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: Comments to list Sunday's Digest

On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, morpha wrote:
> If we could buy finished origami, then we wouldn't need to fold it would
> we?

If we can buy music on discs, we don't need to make music ourselves? If we
can buy paintings, we don't need to paint ourselves?

For me, the real joy of origami lies in the folding. Seeing the model
evolving under your hands, feeling the paper, how it folds, how it curves,
and then, perhaps after an hour or more, having an exquisite little
sculpture in your hands. This is a kind of joy of creating: Although I
have few original models, I think of folding after diagrams as also being
a kind of creating.

Another joy of origami is to discover how the creator achieved certain
things. It is like a kind of puzzle: You try to determine how you folded
the paper to get this or that effect, and then you try to generalize this
concept, compare it with the techniques used in other models, etc. This
joy is still rare for me, but I'm slowly beginning to get behind the
techniques in the models I fold.

Another joy is collecting and preparing the paper, choosing a special kind
of paper for a model, simply working with these exquisite kinds of paper.
I use Japanese mulberry paper for most of my models, which I treat with
wallpaper paste, and glue to foil, and it is always a pleasure for me to
work with this kind of paper.

Compared to these points, looking at the finished models is only a minor
pleasure.

Yours, Sebastian               sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de,skirsch@t-online.de





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:31:15 -0300 (ADT)
From: skirsch@t-online.de (Sebastian Marius Kirsch)
Subject: Re: folding vs. sculpting

On Tue, 24 Jun 1997, Casida Mark wrote:
> Hmmmm... Isn't most sculpted origami of the free form type which is hard
> or impossible to diagram and very difficult to reproduce two times in a
> row?  Any thoughts on special diagramming techniques for sculpted origami?

You should take a look at Herman van Goubergen's original diagrams for his
Cat, his Reader and his Gorilla.

These models rely heavily on the final shaping and sculpting. Only mention
the eyebrows of his cat: They are the expression-building key-point, and
they are only two concave creases in the paper.

Or take his Reader: I have seen this model on display in Wuerzburg, and
with only a few gentle creases he succeeded in giving the model an
interested and attentive expression.

I think that in his diagrams, he succeeds in telling you how to achieve
this look with your models as well. IMHO, Herman is a master diagrammer
anyway, but he is exceptionally good at showing you how to achieve this
curved, non-linear look most of his models have.

Yours, Sebastian               sebastian_kirsch@kl.maus.de,skirsch@t-online.de





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 13:38:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: joel@exc.com (Dr. Joel M. Hoffman)
Subject: Re: OTFC

>I don't have OFTC here at my desk. A look at the archives tells me
>it's a Japan Publications book. I found this address on the web:
>
>Japan Publications
>
>c/o Shin Nichibo Bldg.
>1-2-1 Sarugaku-Cho
>Chiyoda-Ku, Tokyo, Japan
>101
>Tel: 03-3295-8411
>
>One of the messages in the archives leads me to believe that they have
>a New York office, but I can't find an address for them there. The New

In my copy I see the following:

US Distributor:

Kodansha International/USA,Ltd., through Harper & Row, Publishers,
Inc., 10 East 53rd Street, NY, NY 10022.

-Joel
(joel@exc.com)





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 14:18:19 -0300 (ADT)
From: Gary Wayne Vanderbur <gwv@mindspring.com>
Subject: Re: [NO] Courtesy, Zen, perceptions (Re: ORIGAMI-L digest 760)

At 12:26 PM 6/25/97 -0300, you wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, Perry Bailey wrote to Robert Pataki:
>
>=Excuse me, but at least she contributes to list with out deliberatley
>=trying to offend, I wish I could say the same about you.  If I have to
>=take a choice as to who's e-mail I would rather read, it would be
>=geolines not yours.  Her comments are entertaining and often witty,
>=yours seem to be mean and sarcastic.  You like a poll from the entire
>=list as to whom we would prefer to hear from?  A zen humorist or you?
>=What did she do to offend you that you treat her in this manner?  If her
>=only sin is changing the subject when the subject begins to become to
>=heated, which of the other would be peace makers do you intend to go
>=after next?  Either lurk quietly or contribute constructively.
>
>So what is better? Someone who very plainly spells out what he thinks and
>wants (as Robert does), or someone who tries to forward her own agenda using
>smoke and mirrors? Geoline seems to be a very nice person, and she does have
>something to contribute, but too often she DOES go way off topic. "Zen humour"
>is well and good, but origami is not Zen Buddhism and Zen Buddhism is not
>origami. Geoline tries to merge the two and, in her own way, gets upset with
>people who do not agree with her point of view. All of this is sugar-coated
>with humour and "Zen archery", of course.

<snip>

* in a whisper, Vandy says ... I don't dare change the subject line.  God
only knows what type
of responses I would receive! * ...  ;-)

Another of the "silent crowd" finds it necessary to write a few words to the
list at large.

I have been enjoying Origami for 10 years now and was very happy to find
this list service
once I found my way on the 'Net a few years ago.  It (the list) has become a
wonderful source
of information, humor, conversations, etc. and I deary enjoy it!

I have been following this particular thread for quite some time now and
wanted to reiterate
what Mr. Wu has commented on concerning people and their opinions.  It is
wonderful to be
exposed to so many of my fellow Origamians and their views, opinions,
comments, etc.  I find
myself to be richer because of them -- not at all put out (that is, upset,
angry, disgusted,
etc.) by them.

It is a wonderful world we've been given the privaledge to be part of and I,
for one, am very
glad I can share it with all of you.  I will continue to enjoy your posts,
comments and
informative dialog for quite some time to come.

Thank you all for making my life better and much fuller.  May we all
remember we have a common
love -- taking a lifeless, 2 dimentional piece of paper and, by folding,
creating a living,
vibrant work of art (or, if you prefer, craft piece ;-) that will last
(seemingly) forever.

* Vandy, stepping off his soapbox, bows to the next person in line and
excitedly awaits what
they will have to say to the list ... *

Bye for now,

Gary W. Vanderbur                             Durham, North Carolina, USA
a.k.a.  VANDY                                 gwv@mindspring.com  (home)
John 3:16                                     vandy@wg.com        (work)
"Born of the Spirit; built on the Rock!"      ICQ  909420





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:08:31 -0300 (ADT)
From: Dennis Walker <d_and_m_walker@compuserve.com>
Subject: Web site

Hello all,

        This is just a quick note to say that I now have a web-site, and
more importantly, there are a few simple origami models on my origami page.

        If you should be passing, drop me a line!

        http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/d_and_m_walker

                                Dennis Walker





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:12:16 -0300 (ADT)
From: RA Kennedy <kennedra@isdugp.bham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Postscript format

>         I just downloaded the Kawasaki rose diagrams from the archives...but
> I think I need complete guidance! How can I view the postscript format that
> I just downloaded?

The software required to view postscript files is called Ghostscript. It can
be obtained from the web, but it is not easy to install or use. In the case
of the diagrams you are seeking there is an easier alternative! Alex Barber
has taken the postscript diagrams from the archives, and converted them into
Adobe .pdf format. You do need Adobe Acrobat Reader 3.0 to view the files, but
this is available for free from Adobe (Alex Barber's web page provides the
link to the source), has an auto-install feature, and can easily be configured
as a Netscape plug-in. It took me a while to pluck up the courage to acquire
a copy of Adobe Acrobat Reader 3.0, but with it my eyes have been opened to
the wonders of the archives.

Alex Barber's web site is at:

http://admin.the-village.com/origami/diagram.html

If you still want to have a go with Ghostscript, I can try to guide you
through the installation and utilisation of Ghostscript under Windows 3.1x.

Bye

Richard K.
(R.A.Kennedy@bham.ac.uk)





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:43:18 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>
Subject: Kawasaki rose conspiracy?

There has been / is pressure on the publishers to
re-issue the whole OFTC book, as it is one of the
half dozen most significant "classics".

--valerie





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 16:58:57 -0300 (ADT)
From: pat slider <slider@stonecutter.com>
Subject: OFTC to be reprinted et alias.

Someone (my apologies I can't look up their name right now) recently
posted that a reprint of OFTC was going to be done next year. In
response to my enquiry, she told me that she heard this directly from
Kodansha.

I'm beginning to be optimistic that given the increasing demand, all
the classic titles will eventually be reprinted.

By the way though, Kodansha has a web site now:

http://www.kodansha.co.jp/index_e.html

But last time I surfed here, they didn't really have any origami
book info.

I have heard of a new Kodansha book that relates to the late "modular
animal" thread. It is called "Origami Animals" by Yoshio Sato. The
brief description I saw said something along the lines that the
animals were all done in the new "modular style." Not having seen the
book though, I can't really say what this means :->.

(Expect a lot of you are tired of hearing about my book review site
being delayed but.... I was in the process of getting it up on the
server, but I have been waylaid by personal business. To be honest, I
am not sure when I shall get back to getting it up. oh well....)

Did hear back from TRC about the titles they listed for me. This was
the response.

This book is by Kunihiko Kasahara.
> **95035023:"Ugokashite Asobou Origami no Hon " \757 Picture
> available at http://www.trc.co.jp/944/95035023.jpg

This book is by Akira Yoshizawa.
> **96022825:"Seimei Yutakana Origami" \3800

And I was told that they list 14 Momotani titles that have been
published in the last two years..... "Some are works based on
fairy tales and others are wild flowers and seasonal flowers."

But they didn't give me the titles!  So far, I think perhaps
that working with the bookstore might be easiest when you know
exactly what you want. I have made a first order. So far no problems.
I'll post when the books arrive and give a full report.

Please excuse the "this and that" tone of this message....I'm in a
rambling state of mind today.

pat slider
slider@stonecutter.com





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:03:52 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>
Subject: Postscript format

The Postscript files have to be printed, either on
a PostScript printer or using a program like
Ghostscript to print Postscript on a non-Postscript
printer. The archive either has or tells how to get
the Ghostscript program.

Otherwise, there's a link on the bottom of my web page
Postscript files from the archive converted to Adobe
Acrobat Reader PDF format. Check and see if the Rose
diagrams have been done in PDF. The Acrobat Reader
is free from the Adobe URL on my web page (MAC, PCs,
Unix), and can be set up as a brower helper ap so you
can view PDF files on line. When you use Acrobat, you
can print the files on whatever system printer you
have, it doesn't have to be Postscript, and the print
resolution is the same as the original Postscript file.
Plus you can scan around and zoom in and stuff when
viewing on line. (Some of us much prefer to go the PDF
format route to plain old Postscript.)

(If the Rose files haven't been converted to PDF yet
on the site linked from my page, let me know and I'll
run them through for you.)

Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:08:09 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <valerie_vann@compuserve.com>
Subject: NO:  Translating Postscript Format into Humanspeak

Excuse, me Jennifer, but Acrobat Reader is **NOT**
shareware. Adobe does supply the Reader free of charge
on its web site, but that's not the same as shareware.

And the free Acrobat READER program doesn't convert
Postscript to PDF format. There is another program called
Distiller that comes with the full commercial (non-free)
Acrobat package that does the conversion. If someone is
treating that as "shareware" or freeware on the "Net, I
suspect that Adobe would not be pleased.

Quite a few of us on the origami-l, however, have or have
access to the Distiller program. Most of the origami-L
archive postscript files have been converted to PDF and are
either in the archive or on the PDF "mirror" site (link from the
bottom of my Web page). Or if there's one that hasn't been
done, let one of us know, and we can arrange to convert it for
the archive.

The READER is available at http://www.adobe.com

Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com
http://people.delphi.com/vvann/index.html





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:19:22 -0300 (ADT)
From: Lisa Hodsdon <Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com>
Subject: Making vs. buying (Was Re: Comments to list Sunday's Digest)

Sebastian (skirsch @ t-online.de) replied:
>On Wed, 25 Jun 1997, morpha wrote:
>> If we could buy finished origami, then we wouldn't need to fold it would
> we?

>If we can buy music on discs, we don't need to make music ourselves?
>If we can buy paintings, we don't need to paint ourselves?

While *I* (and I suspect most of *you*) prefer folding origami to buying
already folded models, take into consideration that musicians may well
feel the same way about music as we do about paper. I will never be able
to enjoy making music as much as I enjoy listening to the finished product.

Don't detract from the artistry of the finished origami model by suggesting
that *no one* could enjoy the finished product more than they would
enjoy the folding. We've all met people who are frustrated to tears by
a traditional crane; why shouldn't they be able to have the finished model
if that's "all" they want?

The debate as to whether origami is art or craft will never be resolved to
everyone's satisfaction, but if we say that finished models shouldn't be
sold
because the joy is in the folding, then we land too far on the side of
craft
for my taste.

I'm really only playing devil's advocate (and changing the subject line).

Lisa
Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:42:12 -0300 (ADT)
From: hull@MATH.URI.EDU
Subject: PC laptop needed for OUSA convention

Hi all!

OrigamiUSA is wondering if anyone attending our convention this
weekend in New York City can bring a PC laptop with a portable
CD-ROM drive with them.  We need this to run a demonstration of the
PC version of Casasy & Greene's "Origami: the Secret Life of Paper"
origami CD-ROM.  (It's really coooool!)

If you can help us out, please email me personally.  Or better yet,
call the OrigamiUSA office (212) 769-5635 and tell us (ask for Jan Polish
of Tom Hull).

------ Tom "big waaaaa" Hull
       hull@math.uri.edu

PS I'm telnetting from the OUSA office.  Things are wonderfully hectic
and crazy here, as we get ready for the big convention.  Wheee!





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 17:57:21 -0300 (ADT)
From: Lisa Hodsdon <Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com>
Subject: Fluff? Resource? or what? (Was Re: Comments to list Sunday's

Eric Anderson (ema @ techhouse.cis.brown.edu) wrote in response to:
>On Mon, 23 Jun 1997, Postcards wrote:

>> My impression of the list is that it's a lot of fluff.  There is no
reason
>> to post to it, or even read it, unless you have a question and are
seeking
>> an answer to your post.  There is very little of 'community interest in
the
>> posts, and nothing to excite or incite a new member (or old silent one)
to
>> post to it.
<snip>
>This list is far more than a question/answer list. To say that there is no
>reason to post or even read this list is unfortunate; the many experienced
>folders, creators, historians, mathematicians, and otherwise talented
folders
>provide a rich resource. Those that are new to origami or even new to the
list
>provide just as important a resource as well; their new ideas and
interesting
>insights have given us renewed interest in many areas.

I find this interaction interesting, because *I* have been thinking that
the list
has been filled with too many posts that are only of interest to a specific
few.
I am NOT saying that we shouldn't ask and answer these questions. This is
the
place for them. But there should be more to the list than that.

I agree with Eric about what a wonderful resource and learning experience
origami-l has been. But if I had started reading the list in the last few
months,
I would probably agree with "Postcards" that we don't have much of a sense
of community.  And, I  would be wrong.

The posts of the last few days have led me to wonder what's been going on.
My best guess is that we go in cycles. If you're thinking about leaving
because
of the lack of interesting posts, stick around until after the silence of
this
weekend. Usually, everyone comes back from the convention in New York with
new ideas and topics for discussion and things pick up. (Beware the
deluge!)

Many of the interesting topics that have been brought up in the last few
months were discussed at length on the list in the memories of those who
have been around for a couple of years. If the regular contributors have
nothing new to say and the lurkers aren't compelled to post an opinion, it
*looks* like no one cares about the subject. (I think the question about
what
makes a model a sculpture could be one of those subjects. Do an archive
search on "shared" and "Artistic" in 1996 to see why.)

Lisa (still at 300 cranes til August---gotta start folding again!)
Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:26:03 -0300 (ADT)
From: Cathy Palmer-Lister <cathypl@generation.net>
Subject: Re: Comments to list Sunday's Digest

>
>Sorry for so long a post, but I really feel that this list has so much to
>offer for all of us. Let's do those "How I got started" stories!
>
>-Eric  :-P

Thanks, Eric, for putting my thoughts into words.  I love being on this
list.  Of course not everthing is directed to my level, not everything is of
particular interest to me, but hey, why should it be??!!  It's like a
cafeteria, a lot is offered, and you pick out what suits you.





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 18:42:36 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jorma Oksanen <tenu@sci.fi>
Subject: Re: Comments to list Sunday's Digest

On 25-Jun-97, Sebastian Marius Kirsch (skirsch@t-online.de) wrote:

>For me, the real joy of origami lies in the folding. Seeing the model
>evolving under your hands, feeling the paper, how it folds, how it curves,
>and then, perhaps after an hour or more, having an exquisite little
>sculpture in your hands. This is a kind of joy of creating: Although I
>have few original models, I think of folding after diagrams as also being
>a kind of creating.

I agree, but that might be because I consider myself pretty darn non-
creative person as long as origami is concerned. I think it's only
temporarily, tho.

>Another joy of origami is to discover how the creator achieved certain
>things. It is like a kind of puzzle: You try to determine how you folded
>the paper to get this or that effect, and then you try to generalize this
>concept, compare it with the techniques used in other models, etc. This
>joy is still rare for me, but I'm slowly beginning to get behind the
>techniques in the models I fold.

And one day you can predict most of the folds before you see diagrams.
Gee, it makes you feel proud!

>Another joy is collecting and preparing the paper, choosing a special kind
>of paper for a model, simply working with these exquisite kinds of paper.

Is there single person on this list who doesn't admit having enough
paper to cover all the floors, walls, and ceilings several times?

>Compared to these points, looking at the finished models is only a minor
>pleasure.

I used to think that 50% of the fun of origami comes from folding, 50%
from finishing the model and seeing it looks more or less like it should,
and 50% from giving it away. Folding part has increased it's importance
so now total fun is closer to 180%.

Jorma "2+2=3" Oksanen
--
Jorma Oksanen   tenu@sci.fi

"It's a good thing the average person doesn't realize
 the awesome destructive power of origami"              Earthworm Jim





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:11:20 -0300 (ADT)
From: Cathy Palmer-Lister <cathypl@generation.net>
Subject: apology from Matthias

At 11:33 AM 1997-06-25 -0300, you wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>if I had known that my small note about subject lines would
>disrupt this mailing list so much I wouldn't have posted it.
>I have to apologize and will try to behave in the future.
>
>
>Matthias, wishing he hadn't brought up the subject...
>
>

I didn't think your note was offensive.  Lots of people have let me know me
I screwed up on subject lines etc.  The technology is not always obvious,
and I've gone wrong many times.  If I flounced off lists or out of clubs
everytime somebody told me I was mistaken, or off topic, or just not with
it, I would be a very lonely person.  I recently found out I had set up the
nicknames in Eudora wrong, and NOBODY told me!!  Some people must surely
have got mail I meant for the list, ..........I would have liked to know sooner!

    Cathy





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 19:28:49 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: folding vs. sculpting

Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp> sez

>It's not so cut-and-dry (pardon the pun), Nick.

Nice one!

>How about something like "soft-line" and "hard-line" origami?

Most of the truly lifelike designs use soft & hard creases though. Why
worry about semantics though? As my new booklet (details soon) is
called, "Fold with Feeling"!

all the best,

Nick Robinson

personal email  nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk - now with real Audio clips!





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:20:37 -0300 (ADT)
From: MSPARKS@pinkertons.com (MATTHEW SPARKS 05-025)
Subject: RE: folding vs. sculpting

Nick Robinson replied to Joseph Wu who replied to me,
>>> what are the terms to describe fold Vs sculpting
>>How about something like "soft-line" and "hard-line" origami?
>Why worry about semantics though?

I think until these listservers support inline graphics and video we are
     stuck with describing folds via words. and that makes semantics
     important. Comparing art by Mondrian  to art by my 5 year old by calling
     them both paintings and nothing more do

I kind of like soft-line Vs hard-line origami it is actually very   descriptive.

Matthew Makaala Sparks                          Desk (818) 380-8712
Senior Technical Support Specialist             Fax  (818) 380-8677
Pinkerton Security & Investigation Services
15910 Ventura Blvd.; Suite 900
Encino, CA  91436                               Ham Radio KE6GVI
  email = MSparks@Pinkertons.com
 ---------------------------------------------------------------------
 Say "Plugh"...                                 "XYZZY"





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:31:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: Kimberly Crane <kcrane@kimscrane.com>
Subject: Dorothy Kaplan's Video Tape, Origami Favorites

Hello Folders:
Kim's Crane would like to announce that Dorothy Kaplan has produced her
first   video tape, Origami Favorites.   This tape is geared towards the
beginning folder.  We have had several neighbors review this tape and
their comments were all very positive!  Please check out our site,
http://www.kimscrane.com for the details.
See you all at the convention!!!
Sincerely,
Kimberly and Gordon Crane





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 21:47:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: Kim Best <kim.best@m.cc.utah.edu>
Subject: Personality Clashes and Personal Attribution.

I just wanted to comment on a few bones of contention we've seen crop up
lately.  It's seem that some have been a bit upset over the style in
with others have expressed their opinions.  Let me pass on some advice I
read a few years ago about computer discussion groups

When ever you write anything, just remember there are real people on the
other end.
When ever you read anything, just remember there are no real people on
the other end.

If you can keep these two contradictions straight you should have no
problems with bruised feelings. We have to bear in mind that Origami-l
has a variety of people.  What my be one persons fluff, may be another's
interesting fact.  Maybe some felt the discussion of origami programing
was boring.  But where else is an appropriate place to discuss it?  If
the discussion was carried on through private e-mail, several of the
people who later got into the project would have been left out in the
cold.  And if these guys come up with a new tool for diagramming
origami, I'm sure everyone of us will be dying to get a copy of the
software!

As far as the contention that origami-l has little to excite most the
community goes...  When I opened my mail reader today, I saw 40 new
messages from origami-l alone.  I don't know if I could handle a truly
exciting discussion group.

The contention has been made that members of the group are more
interested in personal attribution than sharing.  I've seen this
statement made before, and personally I just don't get it.  The archives
are filled with free diagrams for not just simple models, but complex
ones like Robert Lang's Praying Mantis and Mark Kirshenbaums Bee.
OUSA's annual collections are stuffed with original models by authors
who's only compensation is a free copy of the book.  I'm hard pressed to
find another group that is more interested in sharing!

It seems to me that the discussions of copyright law in regard to
origami were aim more at safeguarding those who wished to make use of
published material than protecting any personal "intellectual property."

But if someone takes someone else idea, and passes it off as his own,
it's just plain wrong!  Especially if it is in the form of a book
published for profit.  If people see such a book, they have a right to
be upset.  And they have every right to alert people in this group to
the fact.

And simplicity has nothing to do with it.  Take Joseph Wu's one fold
stegosaurus. It consists of nothing more that a square of paper folded
through the middle at a  22.5 degree angle.  Now there is nothing unique
about folding a piece of paper at a 22.5 degree angle.  But the idea of
calling such a piece of paper a stegosaurus is very clever and unique.
And if someone else creates a web site or writes a book with such a
folded piece of paper, and calls it a stegosaurus, it's only right that
they give Joseph Wu credit.

Now I only hope that my, admittedly odd personality, hasn't offended
anyone.

Kim Best                            *******************************
                                    * See you in New York!!!!!!!!!*
Rocky Mountain Cancer Data System   *******************************
420 Chipeta Way #120
Salt Lake City, Utah  84108





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 22:56:25 -0300 (ADT)
From: JacAlArt@aol.com
Subject: Books?

Looking for good Origami books featuring complex/mega-complex models. Have
all the Montroll and Lang books. Have Kawahata's Origami Fantasy and
Yoshino's Super Complex Origami. Also subscribe to Tanteidan and buy ORU
whenever it comes out. Have I done it all? Where can I find complex diagrams?
I wish Jeremy Shafer or Marc Kirschenbaum (spelling?) would coume out with a
whole book of their ingenious designs (as opposed to the 1 or 2 in each OUSA
Annual)! SUGGESTIONS!?

~Alec





Date: Wed, 25 Jun 1997 23:09:58 -0300 (ADT)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Books?

On Wed, 25 Jun 1997 JacAlArt@aol.com wrote:

=Looking for good Origami books featuring complex/mega-complex models. Have
=all the Montroll and Lang books. Have Kawahata's Origami Fantasy and
=Yoshino's Super Complex Origami. Also subscribe to Tanteidan and buy ORU
=whenever it comes out. Have I done it all? Where can I find complex diagrams?
=I wish Jeremy Shafer or Marc Kirschenbaum (spelling?) would coume out with a
=whole book of their ingenious designs (as opposed to the 1 or 2 in each OUSA
=Annual)! SUGGESTIONS!?

Well, Oru is defunct, but that's beside the point. Jeremy's working on a book,
and both Lang & Montroll always have books on the go, but I don't know about
Marc. You should try getting ahold of the Origami Tanteidan convention books.
There are 2 out right now (although #1 might be out of print), and there
should be another one after the Tanteidan convention in August this year.

 Joseph Wu - origami@planet.datt.co.jp - http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami
> It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on
yourself. We can teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach you how YOU
paint. There's More Than One Way To Do It.
> Have the appropriate amount of fun.    --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz
