




Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 05:38:51 -0300 (ADT)
From: "S.Blackman" <s.blackman@cranfield.ac.uk>
Subject: Name the book

------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5480.E0F0DD40

On Mon, 28 Apr 1997, Perry Bailey wrote:

=3D4" by 6"
=3DPrinted in Japan by Hoikusha Publishing Company., LTD.
=3D
=3Ddominiating the cover is what looks like a devils head, in red paper,

Joseph Wu replied

=3DSounds like the Japanese edition of one of KAWAII Toyoaki's books, =
probably
=3D"Colorful Origami". He's got other books, too, "Japan's Creative =
Origami" and
=3D"Origami".

I have a copy of this book but I have no idea of the title. I do however =
have a scanner and could send an image of the cover to anyone willing to =
translate it. (I have the english version of Creative Origami by Kawai =
Toyoaki and the models are not the same).

I found the book on the shelves of my wifes parent's house. They had a =
Japanese exchange student staying with them about 20 years ago and she =
left the book for them. On two business trips to Japan I was able to =
meet her and stayed at her house on one occasion. Her mother also lived =
in the house and was doing origami. I had not done origami for many =
years but could remember the crane. Her mother gave me some models for =
my children and also some paper. This got me interested in origami =
again.

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Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 06:47:42 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Bateman A. G." <agb@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: New stuff on my page

Dear All,
         I have added some new things for you to try out at

http://www.mrc-cpe.cam.ac.uk/jong/agb/origami.html

1) Cut out and fold tessellations.
     I have recently written a program for generating crease patterns
for origami tessellations.  I have put three postscript examples to try.
I would really like feedback on these.

2) Dino Andreozzi diagrams
     Dino has allowed me to place copies of his diagrams on my page,
there are currently three new models and maybe many more on the way.
Dino runs the Swedish Origami Association web pages at URL

http://hem.passagen.se/dion/index2.htm

I would like to give special thanks to Maarten van Gelder for archiving
the messages on origami-l and V'ann Cornelius for creating Oriindex. My
page would be impossible without these resources.

Bye for now
Alex

--
- Alex Bateman
- MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology
- agb@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk
- Phone: (01223) 402479
- http://www.mrc-cpe.cam.ac.uk/jong/agb/origami.html





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:04:28 -0300 (ADT)
From: Zachary Brown <zbrown@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
Subject: Convention requests

What do people think of a group of inventors having a panel at the
convention, in which they talk to the audience and each other about
invention? Is there a lot of support for that idea?

On a related note, do people have ideas for convention classes and events
that would not be centered around one person teaching a group how to fold
a particular model? I hear that classes on the differences between foil
and wetfolding, on how to do a single crease, and on math have all been
done before. Should they be repeated? Should they take up more of the
focus of the convention (i.e. not just repeated, but fleshed out and
turned into a larger part of the convention)? What other classes would be
good?

Let's give the convention organizers some ideas.

Zack





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:25:23 -0300 (ADT)
From: Matthias Gutfeldt <Tanjit@bboxbbs.ch>
Subject: Book Prices (was: Pfiffiges Origami)

Valerie Vann wrote (about Paulo Mulantinhos book "Pfiffiges Origami"):
> I wonder, though if the fact that Mulantinho was disconnected from the
> English edition is one reason why the book is relatively inexpensive,

The german edition (second edition, 1995) costs 19.- sFr. in
Switzerland;
that would be about 13 to 14 US $. Is the english edition really cheaper
than that?

Matthias





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 10:33:34 -0300 (ADT)
From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@ahand.unicamp.br>
Subject: Books by Kawahata & Montroll: comments

Fellow folders,

Regarding recent posts about books by John Montroll and Kawahata Fumiaki,
I think some mistakes should be addressed.

Books mentioned here:
W.A.W.: Origami: Wild Animals of the World, Kawahata Fumiaki
I.A.W.: Origami: Imaginary Animals of the World, id.
O.F.: Origami Fantasy, id.
O.D.: Origami Dinosaurs, id.
N.A.A.O.: North American Animals in Origami, John Montroll
M.C.C.Z.O.: Mythological Creatures and the Chinese Zodiac
  in Origami, id.
N.O.: The New Origami, Biddle & Biddle

1) First of all, I apologize if I'm arguing about outdated messages.
One can never be sure after being dumped off the list several times in
the past.

2) Quoting Joseph Wu's about W.A.O., answering to Shi-Yew Chen:
>>I could have shown you this one at the Southeastern Origami Festival, Sy.
>>Sorry that I didn't. Now Robin Macey is the proud owner of that copy of the
>>book. Anyway, the book is not bad. The models are mostly at an intermediate
>>level, and many of them use two pieces of paper.

And again, about I.A.W.:

>>I've seen this here, but have not bought it. Again, most of the models are at
>>an intermediate level, but they are not as good as the ones in the other book
>>above. In fact, I don't think much of most of the models. Yamaguchi (owner of
>>Origami House) commented that some people are much better at making complex
>>designs than simple ones and cited Kawahata's book as an example.

I hate to disagree with Joseph, but *none* of W.A.W.'s models uses more
than one sheet of paper, although both the fox and squirrel start from a
2x1 rectangle.  They vary IMHO from low intermediate to solid high-inter-
mediate, almost complex (the bison was given a three-star degree by
Montroll in his *-to-**** scale). Perhaps we are discussing different
books? My copy is ISBN 4-900-747-11-4.

Although I also prefer Kawahata's more complex art (O.F.'s Pegasus), I
have a better opinion about this book than Joseph does - at least
aesthetically the models are on a par with Montroll's last books, and
similarly not so detailed as, say, a Lang insect (to mention two well-
known creators). As usual, even when Kawahata approaches the same
subject more than once, he throws in some variety.  His new panda
structurally differs from that published in ORU diagrams book #1. Also, the
new musk ox is *not* the same one published by Montroll in N.A.A.O. [as
an aside, I was delighted to discover that Kawahata's pteranodons in
N.O., O.F. and O.D. were all very different].

I do not yet have I.A.W., but I hope it keeps level with W.A.W.

3) Less than one month ago, someone (please forgive me for not remembering)
wrote in this list about non-square models, mentioning that several
models in M.C.C.Z.O. started with a cupboard/book fold, thus essentially using
a 2x1 rectangle. That is *not* correct. I folded few models from that book
(what a beautiful and symmetrical 3-headed dragon!) but the diagrams
clearly show that later the cupboard evolves into four limbs in a process
not unlike box-pleating. So the square start is *essential*. BTW, that book
has something to teach about reusing techniques since no less than
four animals (ram, rabbit, tiger and dog) share that start. [I must
say I was somewhat disappointed by the chimera, which IMNSHO does not
compare with the identically engineered 3-headed dragon. Perhaps I should
wait (hint? beg? demand?) for Joseph's book?]

4) Since I finally decided to write, let me share my view about square/non-
square sheets. I believe there's no reason to despise a starting shape
obtainable *from a square, with no measuring aids* [1x3 & 1 x sqrt(2) are fine,
but I'd not like a (3 + sqrt(5)) x 2 x (1 + sqrt(3)) triangle, unless
someone devised a practical approach using only straightedge folds]. After
all, we could've started from a square and suffer with the extra layers.

However, for purely practical reasons I prefer square starts, since that
shape is commercially available. When not, we can easily make one with
no measurements and no tools. Cutting off material from a square looks
like wasting "paper state". Couldn't the creator's ingenuity find an
utility for that otherwise wasted material?

Carlos A. Furuti
furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:12:32 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jeannine Mosely <j9@concentra.com>
Subject: Re: non-square paper (was Books by Kawahata & Montroll: comments)

Carlos Furuti remarks, with regard to non-square paper:

   I believe there's no reason to despise a starting shape
   obtainable *from a square, with no measuring aids* [1x3 & 1 x sqrt(2) are
     fine,
   but I'd not like a (3 + sqrt(5)) x 2 x (1 + sqrt(3)) triangle, unless
   someone devised a practical approach using only straightedge folds].

This particular triangle does not exist, because it violates the
triangle inequality: 2 + (1 + sqrt(3)) < 3 + sqrt(5).  However, it is
not at all hard to devise a sequence of folds resulting in a triangle
with sides of the form A + sqrt(a), B + sqrt(b), C + sqrt(c), for
integer (or rational) A,B,C,a,b, and c, with, of course, a,b and c
positive.  (Actually executing those folds is another matter.)  A lot
of effort has been put into studying just what folds can be achieved:
essentially, any edge whose length is the solution to a cubic
polynomial with rational coefficients.

        -- Jeannine Mosely





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:36:11 -0300 (ADT)
From: havener3@delphi.com (geoline)
Subject: Re: Curious about cranes and other things

>1.  After reading Sadako and the 1000 cranes as the culmination of a unit
>on non-violence with the fifth graders at my school I now find myself
>folding cranes with 50 enthusiastic students.  We hope to have 1000
>folded by the end of May so I can take them to Hiroshima this summer.
> Questions about 1000  cranes.   Is there any usual number
>of  cranes per string or number  of strings of cranes to the 1000 cranes?
> Do people use black  brown and grey paper  to fold the cranes with.
>The kids wanted to know and I didn't have the answers.

Oriental cultures, including ancient Japanese culture do have certain
numerical and color taboos.  Light, neutral colors such as white are
associated with death and in ancestral worship. However, a balance of light
and dark colors is also representive of the force which holds the universe
together, so light and dark represents "balance."  Red and white are
especially beautiful strung-up because it represents red and white weeping
cherry blossoms, as in a cherry blossom friendship festival.

Even numbers are bad luck and should be avoided especially the number 4
since it is represented by the word "shi" which means death. The number 9
is an especially elegant number as it is 3 sets of 3 (triangular form) and
also represents the nine dragons who blessed the birth of the baby Buddha.

I display my origami alongside my bonsai and other oriental arts like ink
painting and landscape scroll work.  Some of my work, which I am just
starting to put-up on the website I share with my little son is at:
http://www.geocities.com/~jaspacecorp/momsai.html

>2.  Display containers for origami.  I would like to find some
>acrylic cubes in varying sizes with one side that slides open and
>closed to display origami models in.  Has anyone come across any thing
>like that?   I'm  looking for a way to display origami on the walls
>without having it get dirty and so people can see as much of all
>sides of the model as possible.  Any suggestions would be welcome.

You can also spray the completed models with a polyurethane sealant.
However, you must first test the spray on the paper to make sure the colors
do not run.  Dust pieces with a statically charged duster when the pieces
get dusty.

Metallic gift wrap foil paper, like the stuff we use at Christmas, is great
because mythic creatures such as the Golden Imperial Dragon (I think I have
a baby dragon and old wise dragon on display at my website with a Ming Carp
cascade bonsai) are easy to hold shape, maintain and clean.  The gift wrap
foils also resist humidity and dampness to some degree.  The holograpic
gift wrap foils make striking ice creatures.

Sincere Li,
Geoline Havener-Li
email: havener3@delphi.com
http://www.geocities.com/~jaspacecorp/momsai.html





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 12:53:47 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Book Prices (was: Pfiffiges Origami)

<<is the English really cheaper

I believe the German edition is listed in US $16-17;
the English from Fasc. Folds was 10.75 or $10.95US (I forget
which), plus if you can almost always get a discount from FF
of 10%.  Also, like most origami books, I expect this one will
show up on remaider tables soon for maybe $6...

I didn't want to wait for that to happen though :-)
--valerie





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:24:19 -0300 (ADT)
From: chall@scsn.net (Carol Hall)
Subject: Discovering origami-l

>Unless origami-l is advertised on all the webpages about
>Origami, the chances of finding the mailing list are very small.

This brings to mind a question that I've had for some time:  How did people
who subscribe to origami-l discover it?

I found reference to origami-l in a 3-ring binder on display at an OUSA
convention about 3 years ago.  After I subscribed and started reading
through the archives I discovered that I probably had known about it for
some years prior to that - but having no internet access at the time, the
reference went right past me.  It was only when I could use the information
that it struck a chord.

Carol Hall
chall@scsn.net





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:22:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: Matthias Gutfeldt <Tanjit@bboxbbs.ch>
Subject: Acronyms (was:Re: Books by Kawahata & Montroll: comments)

Carlos Alberto Furuti wrote:
> Books mentioned here:
> W.A.W.: Origami: Wild Animals of the World, Kawahata Fumiaki
> I.A.W.: Origami: Imaginary Animals of the World, id.

(CLIP)

For the ACs (Acronymically Challenged) in here, could you
please write out those W.A.Ws etc.? I have no clue what
you are talking about :-(.
Thanks :-)

Matthias Gutfeldt aka Tanjit@bboxbbs.ch





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:29:17 -0300 (ADT)
From: chall@scsn.net (Carol Hall)
Subject: origami publishing

>Interesting, isn't it, that because origami books are considered
>apparently by publishers as children books or do-it-yourself type
>crafts books, that liberties are taken with both the contents and
>the author/artists that perhaps would not be considered with a work
>of fiction, poetry, or even "conventional" art!

It seems to me that what the origami world needs most is not necessarily a
good editor (although clearly that too) but a good, strong agent!  Someone
who knows how to negotiate for decent contracts and who would protect the
rights of originators, diagrammers, etc.

Carol Hall
chall@scsn.net





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 13:58:35 -0300 (ADT)
From: "I.Harrison -Ian Harrison" <I.Harrison@open.ac.uk>
Subject: RE: Curious about cranes and other things

>From Marsha DuPre
2.  Display containers for origami.  I would like to find some
acrylic cubes in varying sizes with one side that slides open and
closed to display origami models in.
It used to be possible, in the days when photographs were square, to
obtain photocubes: clear plastic cubes that would display six
photographs.  These split into three faces and three faces, rather than
one and five, but I think that they would be suitable for smaller models.
 Unfortunately they don't seem to be made in UK but I find them from time
to time in charity (second hand) shops.
  Ian

I.Harrison@Open.ac.uk





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:09:44 -0300 (ADT)
From: Brett Askinazi <brett@hagerhinge.com>
Subject: RE: Books by Kawahata & Montroll: comments

------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5495.D15E26C0

Sorry in advance for the extra attachments to this email.

That was me.  First let me say that I *LOVE* the models in M.C.C.Z.O, =
and have said so on the list many times.

I used this book as an EXAMPLE, to a question posed about forming a =
square into a geometric shape and then folding a shape into the final =
model.

ie.  Fold a square into an Equilateral triangle and then start with the =
model.

The question was purely philosophical, asking whether the model was =
started with a square or the shape of the starting point.

In this context the models from M.C.C.Z.O. can be argued to be derived =
from a 2x1 rectangle.  I argued that when you form a square into another =
shape - in this case a 2x1 rectangle - there are extra flaps that  would =
not be present if the paper were CUT into a 2x1 rectangle.

So the two things are not  the same.

Does this make sense ?
Brett Askinazi
brett@hagerhinge.com

-----Original Message-----
From:   Carlos Alberto Furuti [SMTP:furuti@ahand.unicamp.br]
Sent:   Tuesday, April 29, 1997 8:34 AM
To:     Multiple recipients of list
Subject:        Books by Kawahata & Montroll: comments

3) Less than one month ago, someone (please forgive me for not =
remembering)
wrote in this list about non-square models, mentioning that several
models in M.C.C.Z.O. started with a cupboard/book fold, thus essentially =
using
a 2x1 rectangle. That is *not* correct. I folded few models from that =
book
(what a beautiful and symmetrical 3-headed dragon!) but the diagrams
clearly show that later the cupboard evolves into four limbs in a =
process
not unlike box-pleating. So the square start is *essential*. BTW, that =
book
has something to teach about reusing techniques since no less than
four animals (ram, rabbit, tiger and dog) share that start. [I must
say I was somewhat disappointed by the chimera, which IMNSHO does not=20
compare with the identically engineered 3-headed dragon. Perhaps I =
should
wait (hint? beg? demand?) for Joseph's book?]

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------ =_NextPart_000_01BC5495.D15E26C0--





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 14:18:50 -0300 (ADT)
From: burleigh@hackberry.chem.niu.edu (Darin Burleigh)
Subject: Usenet and FAQ

Many good reasons for not sending origami-l messages
However, it was pointed out that the newsgroup might be
a good way to attract folders and potential folders. Rather
than just posting a message there saying, 'Hey,join our group!',
maybe we could write a FAQ (frequently asked questions) file
about origami, including information about web sites, and
of course orgigami-l.
One should written up anyway, to include questions like:
* where can I find this book?
* where can I find this fold?
* what is wet-folding?
* I haven't received any messages lately, what's going on?
* is it  ok to use scissors?
* is it ok for me  to put these cool diagrams on my web page?
* I haven't received any messages lately, what's going on?
* is it ok to send everyone these cool pictures
* what software can I use to create/look at diagrams?
* I haven't received any messages lately, what's going on?

-darin





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 15:38:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Goveia, William P" <wgoveia@indiana.edu>
Subject: [NO] Add another name to the list of postponed people and [O] Sug

Well,
Add me to that ever growing list of those who have been postponed.
Would it be out of place to suggest another home for Origami-L?  I can
look into creating the list here at IU, or I am sure that there are
other systems administrators besides me (lurking, perhaps?) who might be
able to help...Just an offer, no offense intended.

At any rate, I need to get my hands on copies (both Mac and Windows) of
the secret life of paper, and have 2 problems: 1) don't have a credit
card (not really interested in getting one, to tell the truth) and 2)
the bookstores around here (yes, Barnes & Noble and Borders included)
don't carry it, and refuse to order "software," even if it is prepaid,
and even if they have carried the requested software in the past (and
even if it isn't so much software, but rather electronic literature ;-).

This means that mail order is somewhat shaky as an option.  Anyone aware
of a place in Indiana (Bloomington, Indianapolis, or Terre Haute would
be best, but I would even settle for something within a few hours drive
from Bloomington, Indiana) that may, perhaps, be civilized enough to
carry this "arcane craft software" (a quote from a *RUDE* Barnes and
Noble employee)?

Thanks In Advance,
Bill (alone in the wilderness in Indiana?)

P.S. Please don't misunderstand me, I love where I live, except when I
try to get my hands on origami materials!!
(I just noticed I went wild with parentheses here, oh well...)





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:00:59 -0300 (ADT)
From: Matthias Gutfeldt <Tanjit@bboxbbs.ch>
Subject: Re: Usenet and FAQ

Darin Burleigh wrote:
> One should written up anyway, to include questions like:
> * where can I find this book?
> * where can I find this fold?
> * what is wet-folding?
> * I haven't received any messages lately, what's going on?
> * is it  ok to use scissors?
> * is it ok for me  to put these cool diagrams on my web page?
> * I haven't received any messages lately, what's going on?
> * is it ok to send everyone these cool pictures
> * what software can I use to create/look at diagrams?
> * I haven't received any messages lately, what's going on?
>
> -darin

And please don`t forget
 * Get me off this list!!
 * Get me OFF THIS LIST RIGHT NOW!!
 * GET ME OFF THIS LIST OR I`LL CALL THE COPS!!!

<g>

Matthias





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:45:19 -0300 (ADT)
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re: Origami Convention '97

Jan, my video called Origami Favorites is  ready to be marketed.  I just want
to know what to do to see if OUSA is interested in selling it.  I think it is
pretty good and a nice package.  Can you help me out with this
information....Your interviews in the "The Paper" are very interesting and I
enjoy them a lot.  I really appreciate all of the hard work you do for OUSA
and for all of the rest of us....if not for you and the rest of the of the
dedicated volonteers we could not exist.  Thanks in advance for any
information you can give me regarding the above matter.  Dorigami@aol.com
 (Dorothy Kaplan)





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 16:56:23 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Acronyms (was:Re: Books by Kawahata & Montroll: comments)

Matthias writes:
<<For the ACs (Acronymically Challenged) in here, could you
<<please write out those W.A.Ws etc.? I have no clue what
<<you are talking about :-(.

I didn't write the message Matthias is complaining about, but:

The "acronyms" he asks about are not common ones, they are
just abbreviations the person was using in that particular
email. That is, he was telling you that in the rest of his
email he would be using "W.A.W." to mean "Wild Animals of the
World" by Fumiaki, and so on for the rest of the books.
So to avoid having to write out "Wild Animals of the World"
every time he wants to refer to it in the message, he just
writes "W.A.W."

I think if the message is read again, you will see that
you request for an explantion of the "acronyms" is already
contained in the message.

The only acronyms in common use on the origami-L are things
like:

OUSA  =  OrigamiUSA organization
BOS   =  British Origami Society
BARF  =  Bay Area Rapid Folders   a USA local organization
WCOG  =  West Coast Origami organization
PCOC  =  Pacific Coast Origami Conference

and a couple of abbreviation for Japanese publications or societies.

and sometimes:

OFTC  =  the classic book Origami For The Connoissuer
OO    =  another classic book Origami Omnibus
UO    =  Tomoko Fuse's English "Unit Origami" book.

But even when people use the above acronyms or abbreviations, most
people write the names out in full at least at the start of the
message before switching to the abbreviation, as was done in the
message Matthias complains about.

Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:22:16 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Discovering origami-l

Interesting. The origami-L used to be listed on several of the
standard mailllist lists that floated around the Internet. I
first heard of it when it was cited as an example of the sort
of exotic :-) things covered by mail lists in a book about the
Internet.

Then I found it on a List of Maillists on Compuserve (I forget
where on compuserve), but at that time Compuserve wouldn't
handle mail lists all that well, and besides the messages cost
me 15 cents apiece. Also apparently it had gotten somewhat
moribund and soon was transferred from (apparently) the original
"owner" to the present "owner" and showed up on the mail list lists
in its new incarnation.

About that time the funky little Online service where I keep some
of my web pages, Delphi, started offering the first "real internet"
service of all the online service providers in the USA, including
email, FTP, Telnet, Gopher, and all the other stuff (WWWeb was
barely beginning, most of it still text), so hearing that there
was a way by FTP to get past messages and files for the origami-L,
I signed up with Delphi primarily so I could use origami-L. I kept
it out of nostalgia, and also because I can get on Delphi when
both AOL and Compuserve are locally impossible (peak times), and
now Delphi while still accessible with a 2400b modem in text mode
by dial-up (email, file uploads), it has gone WWWeb and given us
all 10MBytes of Web space.

Anyway: when all these messages about the origami-L and listservers
was underweigh here, I got curious and went looking for LISTS OF
MAILLISTS, and was surprised that the origami-L appeared on not one
of them, including AOL's (America-On-Line internet service, for the
acronymically challenged) master list, and the commercial one specifically
for mail lists served by Listserv programs.

On reflection, however, I wonder if that isn't just as well. This way
the junkmailer have less chance of picking up on it (Did you know that
your email address can be picked up by automatic programs that find
the origami-L archives?), and fewer pranksters will stumble across it,
and since it is listed on a number of our web sites and other places
that origami fans can find, someone really interested in origami can
find out about it without too much trouble.

A few years ago, I myself posted a notice about the origami-l and OUSA
in the file section of the Crafts Forum on Compuserve (and a sample
of discussions from the origami-L), and when last I checked they were
still there. (Unfortunately perhaps, Compuserve is so vast and complex
a service -- apart from its internet functions, that I think few
users really learn how to use the forum libraries and forums on
Compuserve to their full potential.) There was little origami action
there anyway; the primary action has always been the origami-L.

--valerie
Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 17:38:40 -0300 (ADT)
From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@ahand.unicamp.br>
Subject: RE: Books by Kawahata & Montroll: comments

>>From brett@hagerhinge.com Tue Apr 29 14:17:38 1997:
>>That was me.  First let me say that I *LOVE* the models in M.C.C.Z.O, =
>>and have said so on the list many times.

I thought I had never suggested otherwise.

>>So the two things are not  the same.
>>Does this make sense ?

Sure it does. I searched my mail backups and found Brett's original
post. Actually, now I see my opinion roughly echoes his last paragraphs
about putting uncut paper into good use. But maybe my memory was *imprinted*
by the "essentially" in the first half, quoted here:

>>Using a few examples from Montrolls Mythical creatures and Animals of the
>>Chinese Zodiac (one of my favorite books) many of the forms start with a
>>book type fold ( 1/4ths ) and then proceed from there.   This essentially
                                    -----------
>>makes starts these models with a 2x1 rectangle.  Is the model inferior or
        ------
>>less attractive ?  No.

So what do we do? Flood paper stores with mail "Please get ### origami
paper (either that, or larger sheets)"? :^) [substitute your favorite shape
for "###" above]

Carlos A. Furuti
furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti

P.S. Sorry for the typo in my suggested triangle's measures, as mentioned
by Jeannine. Of course I was emphasizing unusual/irrational ratios, not
actual values.





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:11:17 -0300 (ADT)
From: Brett Askinazi <brett@hagerhinge.com>
Subject: RE: Name that book!

I have seen these books in Library catalogs and have always wondered about
them.  Can Anyone tell me about the contents.  Like are there simple
complex, intermediate, models etc.

On Monday, April 28, 1997 4:18 AM, DLister891@aol.com
[SMTP:DLister891@aol.com] wrote:
>
> Toyoaki Kawai     Origami      None that I can find on my  1971 copy.
>
> Toyoaki Kawai      Colorful Origami         0-06-464074-4
>
> Toyoaki Kawai      Creative Origami         None on my 1978 edition, but
it
> has a Japan Book code number  0176-540035-7700.
>
> Takiui Sugimura    Living Origami           4-586-54041-9.
>
> I regret that I do not have details of the Japanese language editions. I
have
> seen some of them in shops and as far as I know, the contents are the
same as
> in the English language editions.
>
> David Lister
>
> Grimsby, England
>
> Dlister891@AOL.com





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:18:12 -0300 (ADT)
From: Matthias Gutfeldt <Tanjit@bboxbbs.ch>
Subject: Re: Acronyms

Valerie Vann wrote:
> I didn't write the message Matthias is complaining about, but:

And I wish I hadn`t written the complaint quite so fast :-(.

> The "acronyms" he asks about are not common ones, they are
> just abbreviations the person was using in that particular
> email. That is, he was telling you that in the rest of his
> email he would be using "W.A.W." to mean "Wild Animals of the
> World" by Fumiaki, and so on for the rest of the books.

Yep, I realize that now. It was pretty obvious too.
I apologize to Carlos for complaining about something that
was really very easy to understand, and a very useful
thing too. All my fault.

Matthias





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:21:56 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Goveia, William P" <wgoveia@indiana.edu>
Subject: RE: Discovering origami-l

I discovered refences to it on Joseph Wu's page, and on Maarten's
page...





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:21:34 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jack & Emma Craib <gearhead@snet.net>
Subject: Re:acrylic containers...

If you want to display models in school halls in protective cases on the
cheap ask the local supermarket deli and bakery sections to donate some
of the deeper rectangular clear plastic containers.  The huge sheet cake
ones are great...the back tray clicks on and can be taped to prevent
curious fingers from messing with your models.  I've had models that
list members kindly donated to my elementary school's origami "museum"
in the giant sheet cake containers for a long time with no problem...and
they are light enough to pin to bulletin boards easily.
Emma
 (art teacher who does origami with grades 1 to 5)





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:11:46 -0300 (ADT)
From: rick@tridelta.com (Rick Bissell)
Subject: Re: Discovering origami-l

>This brings to mind a question that I've had for some time:  How did people
>who subscribe to origami-l discover it?

Here's my story:
My childhood interest in origami was reawakened a few
years ago by my discovery of Paul Jackson's book "The
Complete Origami Course" at my library.  I was looking
for a book that would have some easy models that I
could teach my children and the time I had never
seen or heard of precreasing, modulars, wet folding
etc.  My memory of origami was the old Shari Lewis /
Oppenheimer book and I didn't expect to find any books
in my library that were published before the '70's.

When I saw the models in this book, especially Phillip
Shen's 10 pointed Star, I was totally astounded, and
hooked.

This book also contained info about OrigamiUSA (it was
FOCA then) and I joined.

I found out about origami-l thru Charles Knuffke's
article "Origami and the Internet" in the Winter 1996
issue of OrigamiUSA's publication "The Paper". I never
would have discovered this on my own because I was not
even aware of such things as electronic mailing lists,
or that I could access them via my email system at
work.  (Thanks Charles!)

I hope that OrigamiUSA, the BOS and others will
continue to keep members aware of these resources.

   -- Rick





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:59:09 -0300 (ADT)
From: Carlos Alberto Furuti <furuti@ahand.unicamp.br>
Subject: RE: Name that book!

Answering Brett's request:

I can only write about Kawai's Creative Origami (small softcover
with a purple traditional crane, _not_ the big yellow softcover of
same name by Kasahara), though I've never seen a Japanese version.

Kawai attempts to compare "traditional" Japanese with "creative"
origami. In short:
- traditional: frequent cuts, very simple, abstract, often only
  suggesting actual theme, features (like eyes) sometimes painted,
  not folded.
- creative: fewer (if any) cuts, less bound to traditional (oral?)
  conventions, attempting to better match nature.
Afterwards, the book presents many models in color photos, both a
"traditional", than a "creative" version: eagle, seal, rabbit, fox,
raccoon, frog, bantam hen, ghost, parakeet, cicada, samurai helmet,
carp, house, flapping bird, airplane, and so on.
The text sometimes emphasizes how a similar base turns into very
different models.  Most models are low intermediate, using at most
one page of diagrams (some have _no_ diagrams, just a hint).
Kawai gives no credits for models. That's right for traditional ones,
so we assume the creative models (generally fine) are his own.

Carlos A. Furuti
furuti@ahand.unicamp.br www.ahand.unicamp.br/~furuti





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 18:55:25 -0300 (ADT)
From: Kimberly Crane <kcrane@kimscrane.com>
Subject: Re: Book Prices (was: Pfiffiges Origami)

Valerie Vann wrote:
>
> <<is the English really cheaper
>
> I believe the German edition is listed in US $16-17;
> the English from Fasc. Folds was 10.75 or $10.95US (I forget
> which), plus if you can almost always get a discount from FF
> of 10%.  Also, like most origami books, I expect this one will
> show up on remaider tables soon for maybe $6...
>
> I didn't want to wait for that to happen though :-)
> --valerie

Kim's Crane at http://www.kimscrane.com has The English edition of this
book on special again for the month of May.  The cost is $8.00 plus
shipping.

Kimberly Crane
Kim's Crane





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:09:45 -0300 (ADT)
From: DLister891@aol.com
Subject: Re: Pfiffiges Origami

In her posting (29th April) Valerie Vann wrote:

<< I wonder, though if the fact that Mulantinho was disconnected from the
 English edition is one reason why the book is relatively inexpensive,
 especially considering it has a hard cover (paper covered, but hardbound
 nonetheless) and is very nicely printed (in Spain).

 On second thought, if Mulantinho received royalties for the German
 version and nothing for the English, perhaps I *will* buy the former
 after all! >>

It's not like that. Paolo doesn't receive royalties at all, whether from the
German or from the English-language editions of his book. What he did was to
sell his copyright to the publisher for a fixed and final fee. This means
that he has sold all his rights to the publisher who can do whatever he wants
with the book.

There are two ways of earning money by writing a book. First, you can retain
your copyright and negotiate to receive a royalty from each copy sold.
Alternatively you can sell your copyright for a fixed fee. (Of course, it can
be much more complicated than this. The contract you negotiate with the
publisher can include all sorts of terms. You may, for instance reserve your
copyright in future printings or in foreign editions or you may negotiate a
fixed fee for the first five thousand copies and then a royalty thereafter.)

Since there are two parties to the contract and the publisher is usually in
the stronger position, you may well be compelled to agree to a
once-and-for-all sale. At any rate you get paid even if the book is a
complete flop! Assuming, however that your book is going to be a success, it
is better to negotiate to receive royalties if at all possible. An
established author will be in a stronger poition to negotiate for royalties,
but a novice author may not have the clout to stand up to a powerful
publisher. Really, either way, it can be a bit of a gamble.

If at all possible, employ the services of a literary agent. An agent will
expect to be paid a hefty commission, but he knows how to stand up to
publishers, he knows all their little tricks, and he can explain the full
consequences of the contract.  Even he, however cannot persuade a publisher
to agree to terms to which the publisher adamantly refuses to agree.

If you are forced to agree to a sale of your copyright for cash, you will be
in good company. Some of the world's most successful works were sold for a
pittance and the writer died in poverty while the publisher continued to reap
a fortune.

David Lister

Grimsby, England

DLister891@AOL.com





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:20:08 -0300 (ADT)
From: Contractors Exchange <contract@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Origami Convention '97

At 06:20 PM 4/28/97 -0300,Steve Woodmansee <stevew@empnet.com> wrote:

>       Where is the convention to be held this year?  I would dearly love to
>attend but accomodations may be a problem...

As with the last few years, the Convention will be helt at the F.I.T school
in NYC, USA.  The dorm rooms will be available to Convention attendees at
very reasonable prices (even some of the NY locals take up on the offer).
As Jan said, full info will arrive via mail to OrigamiUSA members. If you
are not a member, send a SASE to:

OrigamiUSA att: membership
15 West 77th Street
New York, NY 10024

Marc





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:13:37 -0300 (ADT)
From: Contractors Exchange <contract@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Convention requests

At 10:04 AM 4/29/97 -0300, Zachary Brown <zbrown@lynx.dac.neu.edu> wrote:

>What do people think of a group of inventors having a panel at the
>convention, in which they talk to the audience and each other about
>invention? Is there a lot of support for that idea?

I think that is a great idea. I would enjoy hearing what everyone has to
say on soem selected topics. I would even be more excited if I were asked
to be on the panel! I do not think this would have to be too formal.
Perhaps it can be held immediatly after the Annual Meeting (the PA system
will be set up), and it would be an incentive for people to come to that
meeting. A short list of questions could be prepared, and audience
participation encouraged.

>
>On a related note, do people have ideas for convention classes and events
>that would not be centered around one person teaching a group how to fold
>a particular model? I hear that classes on the differences between foil
>and wetfolding, on how to do a single crease, and on math have all been
>done before. Should they be repeated? Should they take up more of the
>focus of the convention (i.e. not just repeated, but fleshed out and
>turned into a larger part of the convention)? What other classes would be
>good?

Convention Monday seems to be gaining in popularity. It is more laid back
than the other days, and the other classes are more interesting (to my
tastes). I think I will teach my foil backing class again (as ever, it sold
out last year), and I will go into the pros and cons of other techniques.

Marc





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:55:34 -0300 (ADT)
From: Gail Armstrong <jaelle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: Convention requests

Hello

   I have one suggestion... a class on making your own paper. That culd be
interesting I think. Sorry that is all I could think of that would be
different.

Gail Armstrong





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 19:56:16 -0300 (ADT)
From: havener3@delphi.com (geoline)
Subject: Cut Yer Own was...RE: Books by Kawahata & Montroll: comments

Carlos A. Furuti lightheartedly asks:
>So what do we do? Flood paper stores with mail "Please get ### origami
>paper (either that, or larger sheets)"? :^) [substitute your favorite shape
>for "###" above]

Seriously, go invest in a good paper cutter to cut your own size paper.  I
have had to resort to using gift wrap paper, because origami paper is not
easy to come by in Memphis Tennessee area.  The only time I purchase
"ORIGAMI PAPER" is when I am in my home state of Hawaii (there's a good
Japanese bookstore in downtown Honolulu called Hakubundo which has a WIDE
variety of papers).  I look for precut squares of traditional kimono rice
paper for my many robed geisha and Japanese bride dolls and uncut rice
paper sheets for larger origami projects.

I frequently need different sized squares, rectangles and triangles any
way.  For projects which require many folds, I cut gift wrap tissue paper
or lightweight, but sturdy gift paper to prevent cracking and warping.  For
projects which require stiffness, I cut heavier weight art papers.  I
stock-up on foil Christmas gift wrap paper (the textured foils used
commonly to decorate doors...'cuz these have just the right strength,
weight and malleability I need) just after Christmas when the Christmas
stuff is 75% off.  I am always looking for pretty prints and different
textured papers in art stores and gift wrap departments.  Newspaper,
telephone books and colorful magazines can be recycled for origami use.

'Tis the ZENsible thang to do.

Geoline Havener-Li
email: havener3@delphi.com
http://www.geocities.com/~jaspacecorp/momsai.html





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:07:15 -0300 (ADT)
From: "James M. Sakoda" <James_Sakoda@brown.edu>
Subject: Re: Convention requests

>What do people think of a group of inventors having a panel at the
>convention, in which they talk to the audience and each other about
>invention? Is there a lot of support for that idea?
>
>On a related note, do people have ideas for convention classes and events
>that would not be centered around one person teaching a group how to fold
>a particular model? I hear that classes on the differences between foil
>and wetfolding, on how to do a single crease, and on math have all been
>done before. Should they be repeated? Should they take up more of the
>focus of the convention (i.e. not just repeated, but fleshed out and
>turned into a larger part of the convention)? What other classes would be
>good?
>
>Let's give the convention organizers some ideas.
>
>Zack

I have developed an approach to origami invention and a geometric style,
which culminated in publication of Modern Origami in 1969.  The book is
about to be reprinted by Dover Publications, and I would be interested in
joining a discussion group on different approaches to origami invention or
styles of folding.  James M. Sakoda





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:43:56 -0300 (ADT)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Books by Kawahata & Montroll: comments

On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, Carlos Alberto Furuti wrote:

=I hate to disagree with Joseph, but *none* of W.A.W.'s models uses more
=than one sheet of paper, although both the fox and squirrel start from a
=2x1 rectangle.  They vary IMHO from low intermediate to solid high-inter-
=mediate, almost complex (the bison was given a three-star degree by
=Montroll in his *-to-**** scale). Perhaps we are discussing different
=books? My copy is ISBN 4-900-747-11-4.

Why? Disagree all you like. I'm not infallible, as long time readers here know
very well. We are not discussing different books here. It's just that the last
time I actually looked inside WAW was last September, so my memory is playing
tricks on me.

=Although I also prefer Kawahata's more complex art (O.F.'s Pegasus), I
=have a better opinion about this book than Joseph does - at least
=aesthetically the models are on a par with Montroll's last books, and
=similarly not so detailed as, say, a Lang insect (to mention two well-
=known creators). As usual, even when Kawahata approaches the same
=subject more than once, he throws in some variety.  His new panda
=structurally differs from that published in ORU diagrams book #1. Also, the
=new musk ox is *not* the same one published by Montroll in N.A.A.O. [as
=an aside, I was delighted to discover that Kawahata's pteranodons in
=N.O., O.F. and O.D. were all very different].
=I do not yet have I.A.W., but I hope it keeps level with W.A.W.

My low opinion of Kawahata's more simple works stems mainly from looking in
IAW. The works there are definitely multi-piece, and not very convincing. His
griffin, for example, has a tiny little reverse fold to represent its head,
even though there's enough paper there to do something a little more detailed
(or at least with better proportions: this head looks like an ostrich-head on
a griffin's body!). Now that you've jogged my memory, WAW is a much better
book than IAW. And, as I mentioned, I'm not the only one who had such things
to say about Kawahata's simpler works.

=[I must
=say I was somewhat disappointed by the chimera, which IMNSHO does not
=compare with the identically engineered 3-headed dragon. Perhaps I should
=wait (hint? beg? demand?) for Joseph's book?]

Join the club. How many official "naggers" are there now for me to write a
book? >;)

 Joseph Wu - origami@planet.datt.co.jp - http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami
> It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on
yourself. We can teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach you how YOU
paint. There's More Than One Way To Do It.
> Have the appropriate amount of fun.    --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 22:48:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Curious about cranes and other things

On Tue, 29 Apr 1997, geoline wrote:

=> Questions about 1000  cranes.   Is there any usual number
=>of  cranes per string or number  of strings of cranes to the 1000 cranes?

Maybe, but many people just go with multiples of 10 or 100. It doesn't seem to
be a hard-and-fast rule.

=> Do people use black  brown and grey paper  to fold the cranes with.

Yes, but not usually, especially when sending them to Hiroshima.

=Oriental cultures, including ancient Japanese culture do have certain
=numerical and color taboos.  Light, neutral colors such as white are
=associated with death and in ancestral worship. However, a balance of light
=and dark colors is also representive of the force which holds the universe
=together, so light and dark represents "balance."  Red and white are
=especially beautiful strung-up because it represents red and white weeping
=cherry blossoms, as in a cherry blossom friendship festival.

The cranes sent to Hiroshima tend to be white (since it is a death memorial,
after all), or else strung vertically in the colours of the rainbow, usually
white on top, followed by red, orange, yellow, green, blue, and then white
again. For some reason, purple is not as popular.

=Even numbers are bad luck and should be avoided especially the number 4
=since it is represented by the word "shi" which means death. The number 9
=is an especially elegant number as it is 3 sets of 3 (triangular form) and
=also represents the nine dragons who blessed the birth of the baby Buddha.

The nine dragons go back before Buddhism, but, in fine Asian tradition, has
been syncretically (sp?) incorporated into the newer religion. And the number
3 sounds like "alive" in Chinese, so it's an especially auspicious number.

 Joseph Wu - origami@planet.datt.co.jp - http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami
> It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on
yourself. We can teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach you how YOU
paint. There's More Than One Way To Do It.
> Have the appropriate amount of fun.    --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz





Date: Tue, 29 Apr 1997 23:12:10 -0300 (ADT)
From: Zachary Brown <zbrown@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
Subject: Re: Usenet and FAQ

>
> Many good reasons for not sending origami-l messages
> to alt.arts.origami have been given. I agree with them.
> However, it was pointed out that the newsgroup might be
> a good way to attract folders and potential folders. Rather
> than just posting a message there saying, 'Hey,join our group!',
> maybe we could write a FAQ (frequently asked questions) file
> about origami, including information about web sites, and
> of course orgigami-l.
> One should written up anyway, to include questions like:
> * where can I find this book?
> * where can I find this fold?
> * what is wet-folding?
> * I haven't received any messages lately, what's going on?
> * is it  ok to use scissors?
> * is it ok for me  to put these cool diagrams on my web page?
> * I haven't received any messages lately, what's going on?
> * is it ok to send everyone these cool pictures
> * what software can I use to create/look at diagrams?
> * I haven't received any messages lately, what's going on?

Check out http://lynx.dac.neu.edu/home/httpd/z/zbrown/origami/origami

I'm thinking maybe a stripped down version might be better for posting to
alt.arts.origami.

Zack





Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:43:38 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Acronymically challenged

If its any comfort to the acronymically challenged, :-)
I suspect that "OFTC" is mainly used for the same
dark secret reason *I* use it: my email doesn't have
a spelling checker and every time I write out the title
of "OFTC" instead of using the abbreviation, I come up
with a different way of spelling the "C" word:

Conouser?
Connaisser??
Connoissure???
Connashure???
Con???????????????????????????????????
Confounded word; why didn't my school make us take
French instead of Spanish?

I bet our friends in France and Quebec die laughing
every single time...

:-)

--valerie





Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:44:49 -0300 (ADT)
From: "David C. Elfelt" <davelf@sprynet.com>
Subject: Display containers for origami

> I'm  looking for a way to display origami on the walls
> without having it get dirty and so people can see as much of all
> sides of the model as possible.

Try here:

Plastics To Go
6050 Nathan Ln N
Plymouth, MN 55442-1662
USA

(612) 551-1140





Date: Wed, 30 Apr 1997 07:44:06 -0300 (ADT)
From: FayeG@ix.netcom.com
Subject: Visiting Denver CO

I'm going to be in Denver on Saturday, May 3,1997, on my way to Colorodo
     Springs.  Any good book or paper places to check out?  I will have a car,
     so I can get around pretty well.

Thanks for your help.
