




Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:06:14 -0300 (ADT)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: [NO] Unintentional racial slur (was Re: Tokyo Visit Part 2)

Yaacov Metzger took exception to my use of the following terminology:

=> unmistakably a New York Jew

I hereby publically apologise for having written this. No prejudice was
intended. To the people who jumped to my defense, thank you, but Yaacov is
right, and it was a poor choice of words.

Having said that, let me explain my comments. First off, I did say that the
trip report was *unedited*. That is, what you have read is exactly what flowed
from my brain, out through my fingertips, and into the computer. So there are
many rough spots that should have been re-written (including that line).

Second of all, the man I met definitely fit that description. Imagine, if you
will, Woody Allen. Subtract about 30 years. Add about 30 pounds. Cut the hair
a bit shorter. Dress him in blue jeans and a dark T-shirt with "SUNY" on it.
Is this starting to sound recognisable? The way he carried himself and the way
he spoke was also indicative. While stereotypes are often dangerous and
mean-spirited, sometimes they are also useful to convey a certain image
quickly. That is what I was trying to do.

 Joseph Wu - origami@planet.datt.co.jp - http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami
> It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on
yourself. We can teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach you how YOU
paint. There's More Than One Way To Do It.
> Have the appropriate amount of fun.    --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz





Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:20:39 -0300 (ADT)
From: J Armstrong <jcanada@clark.net>
Subject: Re: Origami Books for blind people

I don't know of books for blind people but I do remember reading in The
Paper obout a man in the US who was learning to fold from spoken
instructions at the conference and who has tape recorded instructions.
Of course this would only be of help to someone who understood english.
And only if I can remember more details.  Any one else remember this?
J





Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 22:42:27 -0300 (ADT)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Origami Books for blind people

On Thu, 17 Apr 1997, Jose Tomas Buitrago wrote:

=Are there books with instructions for fold, published for blind people ?
=Where can I find them ?
=Thank you for the information.

This was discussed on this list in 1994. Here's the relavent excerpt from the
archives (And Jose, you asked this question once before on Mar. 9, 1995. Did
you not find the answer?):

-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Tue, 3 May 94 03:30:49 ADT
From: jadr@oce.nl (J. Adriaanse)
Subject: Re: origami book for the blind

The book was made by Elsje van der Ploeg and Hilly Jongsma, both from Holland.

They did an enormous job to get everything right. The pictures were folded
from wet (but not too wet) very rough sandpaper, the lines are pieces of
wire glued to the surface. Then they put sheets of a special kind of plastic
over the whole thing, melted the plastic a bit and vacuumed underneath. That
way the plastic took the shape of the paper and wires. When cooled down,
this plastic stays in shape, so the actual book consists of sheets of
plastic. You can feel the roughness of the sandpaper (which stands for
'color').

The drawings are in yellow and red for the benefit of people who can still
see a little. It was very difficult to get the lines of the drawing in the
right spot on the plastic.

The text is, as Maarten said, on a compact cassette. They made the Dutch
version first and John Smith (of BOS) helped a lot with translating into
English. Other languages are possible if need be. Playtime is one hour. You
do not need to stop the cassette all the time, it plays music in 'folding
time'.

The book is dedicated to Saburo Kase, a blind Japanese folder. Elsje told me
that he sees with his fingers, in a whole different way than we do. For
instance, by feeling he can imagine all sides of an folded object at once,
where we can only look from one angle at a time!

The price is some $70. Each book has to be made from the original models...

If you are interested, write to:

Uitgeverij Interval
attn: Jacqueline Kuipers
de Vlotkampweg 77
6545 AE Nijmegen
THE NETHERLANDS

Greetings,
Sjaak Adriaanse
-------------------------------------------------------------------------

 Joseph Wu - origami@planet.datt.co.jp - http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami
> It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on
yourself. We can teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach you how YOU
paint. There's More Than One Way To Do It.
> Have the appropriate amount of fun.    --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz





Date: Thu, 17 Apr 1997 23:10:59 -0300 (ADT)
From: Laurie Bisman <lbisman@sirranet.co.nz>
Subject: RE: "Star Search"

I have a couple of easy stars, one 3D the other 2D. If interested I'll send
     diagrams.
One of my favourites is Fujimoto's star.

Laurie Bisman
lbisman@sirranet.co.nz





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:46:58 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Help: FORE! (female origami request emergency)

Interesting that so many seem to think that females and males
are impressed by different origami. My experience with my
own folding on the bus & train during the morning commute,
and stuff sitting/hanging around my office is that the genders
are equally liable to be intrigued by the same models; though
men do seem more likely to watch covertly, and women to ask
"what is that?" or "what are you doing?" ("What **ARE** you
doing??!"; this as I'm tearing up train schedules, which just happen
to yield 8 biz card proportioned pieces of light cardboard :-)

But judging from similar past inquiries of the origami-L
(Rob, did you use that neat search page for the archive? it
has happened about a half dozen times before), either one
of the Kawasaki Roses (the realistic ones, not the tesselation)
is probably the leading candidate. Joseph Wu's diagrams of the
Kawasaki Rose II are available in the archives, aren't they?

Or, if a gift box is required (for something small like a ring),
the Kawasaki Rose No. One can be attached by its 4 closure tabs to
a Sonobe Cube made from the same size paper (or maybe 1/4 size,
I forget; haven't done this in a long time) to make a spectacular
box.

To say nothing of the many wonderful box designs in Tomoko Fuse's
books...

Rob, I know you're into modulars: all the women who've expressed
any interest in my office origami (and I can only recall two who
didn't) were enthusiastic about Omega Stars, little polygons,
any kind of box, biz card thingies (including that notorious
internationally travelled antidisassemblementarianism cuboctahedron),
and YES! any kind of origami ROSE!

Or how about a cube made from the invention of
your own that you sent me? What could be more impressive??

--valerie





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:48:56 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse Books (Was: Unit Origami)

Roberto wrote:

<<Tomoko has published a lot more books on this
 and similar subjects. I can
try and collect a full bibliography to post here.
>>

I have a handwritten list of the 32?-plus Fuse books I own,
mostly with ISBN numbers. The Japanese ones (I think all but
4 are in Japanese) I got thru the OUSA mail order book/supply
center, and I have used their title translations on this list,
plus I have the supply center catalogs with descriptions back
"Series" are no longer available, sadly, as the English
"Unit Origami" is *NOT* just a duplication of this material;
Fuse's work evolves constantly, and the earliers serie have
much that is interesting.) It was my intention to get this
onto my web site as a "modular bibliography" eventually, with
a copy to the the origami-l archive.

Perhaps you noticed Ian Harrisons recent post about Fuse books.

I had mentioned to Ian Harrison in the past that I could help
him sort out which were most likely to be of interest to him,
I just haven't had time to get to it.

I've been buying every Fuse book I can get my hands on since
about 1992, plus everything else that looks like it might have
any modular/unit origami in it, so I have a pretty good
collection.

Perhaps Roberto, I and anyone else who collects Fuse books and/or
modular origami books could manage a collaboration on this, so
as to avoid duplication of effort?

I was not aware that there were Italian (perhaps other language)
editions of Fuse's books). I would be interested to know if
any are of works not available in English, or no longer in print
in either English or Japanese. The language would not be a problem
to me, as her diagrams are uniformly excellent, and I can struggle
through German, Italian and Spanish well enough to figure an
origami book usually.

If any of you are interested in pooling our modular origami and
or Fuse booklists (perhaps an exchange in ASCII text files, or
even FAX if all else fails?), please email me privately.

--valerie
Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:50:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: "Star Search"

Just a note about Jeannine Moseley's biz card 6-point star:

If you don't have access to American business cards, use
any stiff paper. If you have suitable square paper, cut
the square in half, then remove a strip 1/8th the length
of the rectangle.

                            Cut off strip along the Xs
l---l---1---l---l---l---l---X---l
l                           x   l
l                           x   l
l                           x   l
l                           x   l
l                           x   l
l                           x   l
l---l---1---l---l---l---l---X---l

This will give you a rectangle that is
4 units wide by 7 units long, which is
the proportions of American business card
rectangles, the geometry required to make
any business card origami design based on
American cards work properly.

--valerie





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 00:59:37 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: G.M. Gross books and P. Jackson book

There was some discussion previously about the 2 versions
of the Jackson Encyclopedia; it is most unfortunate, but
apparently Jackson didn't have any control over the situation.
I noticed the other day that both the "real" Running Press
version and the "imposter" were listed on Amazon.com.

This reprinting of partial/hacked/different origami books
under the same or virtually the same title seems to happen
fairly often. Which is making me think that what we need
is not only a bibliography with the details like no. of
pages, ISBN number, date of publication, etc. but also
a Web site with photos of covers.  Hmmmm, another project?

:-)

--valerie





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 01:09:19 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Origami Books for blind people

Anybody: didn't the COET conference(s) touch
on origami for the blind?

--valerie





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 01:37:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: jdharris@post.cis.smu.edu (Jerry D. Harris)
Subject: Reprinted Origami Books

>This reprinting of partial/hacked/different origami books
>under the same or virtually the same title seems to happen
>fairly often.

        On a slightly related note (did we cover this before???), are there
any plans by anyone to reprint some of the incredibly-difficult-to-find
"classic" origami books, like the old Harbin and Randlett books?  Dover is
a reprint specialist, and they don't seem to mind handling origami books.
Has anyone approached them about it?

                _,_
           ____/_\,)                    ..  _
--____-===(  _\/                         \\/ \-----_---__
           /\  '                        ^__/>/\____\--------
__________/__\_ ____________________________.//__.//_________

Jerry D. Harris                       (214) 768-2750
Dept. of Geological Sciences          FAX:  768-2701
Southern Methodist University
Box 750395                            jdharris@post.smu.edu
Dallas  TX  75275-0395                (Compuserve:  102354,2222)

"Science _does_ have all the answers -- we just don't have all
the science."
                        -- James Morrow





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 01:35:47 -0300 (ADT)
From: jdharris@post.cis.smu.edu (Jerry D. Harris)
Subject: Re: Help: FORE! (female origami request emergency)

>Interesting that so many seem to think that females and males
>are impressed by different origami. My experience with my
>own folding on the bus & train during the morning commute,
>and stuff sitting/hanging around my office is that the genders
>are equally liable to be intrigued by the same models; though
>men do seem more likely to watch covertly, and women to ask
>"what is that?" or "what are you doing?" ("What **ARE** you
>doing??!"; this as I'm tearing up train schedules, which just happen
>to yield 8 biz card proportioned pieces of light cardboard :-)

        Interesting.  My own experiences would indicate that there is a
peculiar, dichotomous kind of gender-based differentiation.  I find that
adult women far and away find origami models more intriguing and
fascinating than adult males do.  However, young boys are more interested
in it than young girls.  A further instance:  in the rare instances when
I've introduced origami to an adult male who _does_ find it interesting,
I've found them to be more eager to learn more about it (that is, run out
and find books and/or join origami groups) than women are.  Obviously,
though, plenty of women have found it interesting enough to get into it!
8-D  However, that's where all the differences I've noted end -- once into
it, everyone seems to enjoy it equally!

                _,_
           ____/_\,)                    ..  _
--____-===(  _\/                         \\/ \-----_---__
           /\  '                        ^__/>/\____\--------
__________/__\_ ____________________________.//__.//_________

Jerry D. Harris                       (214) 768-2750
Dept. of Geological Sciences          FAX:  768-2701
Southern Methodist University
Box 750395                            jdharris@post.smu.edu
Dallas  TX  75275-0395                (Compuserve:  102354,2222)

"Science _does_ have all the answers -- we just don't have all
the science."
                        -- James Morrow





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 04:12:31 -0300 (ADT)
From: Charles Knuffke <knuffke@sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Reprinted Origami Books

>>This reprinting of partial/hacked/different origami books
>>under the same or virtually the same title seems to happen
>>fairly often.
>
>        On a slightly related note (did we cover this before???), are there
>any plans by anyone to reprint some of the incredibly-difficult-to-find
>"classic" origami books, like the old Harbin and Randlett books?  Dover is
>a reprint specialist, and they don't seem to mind handling origami books.
>Has anyone approached them about it?
>

Evidently someone is listening to your pleas Jerry - this summer a reprint
of Harbin's Secrets of Origami is due to hit the bookstores. From the
Amazon Bookstore's Internet Search Page:

    Secrets of Origami : The Japanese Art of Paper
    Reprint Edition
    Paperback, 256 pages
    List: $10.95 -- Amazon.com Price: $9.85 -- You Save: $1.10(10%)
    Published by Dover Pubns
    Publication date: July 1,1997
    ISBN: 0486297071

    Not Yet Available: You may still order this book. We will ship it to you
    when it is released by the publisher.

If this reprint does well, maybe that'll convince Dover to take a look at
the other Harbin books. As to Randlett's Art of Origami & Best of Origami,
Tom Hull mentioned in a recent posting that Sam Randlett currently works
for St. Martins Press. Maybe we'll see reprints from them one day ;-)

Keeping my fingers crossed. Regards,

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Charles Knuffke       "Amen the Thunderbolt in the Dark Void"
153 Divisadero                                  -Jack Kerouac
San Francisco CA 94104
mailto://knuffke@sirius.com





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 05:15:02 -0300 (ADT)
From: vicky@infoarch.com
Subject: Cherry Blossom Fest.

Cherry Blossom Fest.

Hi Everyone -
Just a quick reminder that this weekend is the 2nd weekend
of the Cherry Blossom Festival in SF.  We have our usual
exhibit at the Miyako Hotel, 11:00 to 5:00 Saturday and
Sunday.  Hope you can come by to say hi.

Vicky Mihara Avery
vicky@infoarch.com

*** *** *** ***
Come for a west coast gathering at "PeaCOCk"
Pacific Coast Origami Conference
Nov 8 & 9, Japantown San Francisco
www.sirius.com/~knuffke/PCOC.html





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 06:53:45 -0300 (ADT)
From: Sheldon Ackerman <ackerman@dorsai.org>
Subject: re: Ouch!

My wonderful message bounced back to me so I had to edit out some of the
headers.
> >
> > Wow talk about touchy!
> > speaking of caracatures, a little self examination wouldn't hurt.
> > It's when we lose the ability to laugh at ourselves and forgive others
> > that we becomes bigots.  Think about it.
>
 I'm glad you are great enough to laugh at yourself. I guess not every
 one feels the way you do. Yaacov M was certainly correct in
 expressing his feelings! You do not have to agree with him.
 Joseph responded and apologised appropriately. As far as I can tell,
 Joseph certainly did not mean anything derogatory. On the one or two
 occasions I met him he did not treat me, a NY Jew (with a Kipah
 pinned to his head), any differently that he treats anyone else. I
 hope :-)

--
Sheldon Ackerman.......http://www.dorsai.org/~ackerman/
ackerman@dorsai.dorsai.org
sheldon_ackerman@fc1.nycenet.edu





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 08:51:48 -0300 (ADT)
From: JESPER LARSEN <940094@udd.aalsem.dk>
Subject: American Lobster

Last night I was working on a model called "American Lobster" from
the book "Origami Sea Life" by Lang and Montroll. What a great book
and what a great model. So much detail. It's great. I'll have to buy
more books of this kind. Origami is fantastic and fun but very time
consuming don't you agree? You need to be very patient. Not
everybody can live up to that (I think) - so from that point of view not
everybody can learn origami (at least not at this level). Any
comments on this?

Jesper
940094@udd.aalsem.dk





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:25:25 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jean Villemaire <boyer@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: American Lobster

JESPER LARSEN wrote:
>
> Origami is fantastic and fun but very time consuming don't you agree? You
> need to be very patient.

And again, it might get you off time limitations.  You just have fun surfing
over hundreds of years of creative work.  Repeating the same finger moves
than old Japanese or any other lost kid in a remote area of time and space.

> Not everybody can live up to that (I think) - so from that point of view
> not everybody can learn origami (at least not at this level).

Of course, we, paper folders all over the planet, like to think we are
special gifted people.  But need we not to forget all we do is simply folding
paper.  Rather irrelevant, isn't it?  I prefer the low profile.  Folding my
way through pleasant moments.  Humbly.  Anybody, I guess, can at this point
have fun folding in his, her own way.

Jean Villemaire





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:41:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: Daddy-o D'gou <dwp+@transarc.com>
Subject: Re: American Lobster

Jesper wrote:
+consuming don't you agree? You need to be very patient. Not
+everybody can live up to that (I think) - so from that point of view not
+everybody can learn origami (at least not at this level). Any
+comments on this?

(From Star Wars, though works out of context just fine:)

    "I cannot teach him, the boy has no patience."  -Yoda
    "He will learn patience." -Obiwan Kenobi

-D'gou





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 10:49:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: jdharris@post.cis.smu.edu (Jerry D. Harris)
Subject: Re: Reprinted Origami Books

>Evidently someone is listening to your pleas Jerry - this summer a reprint
>of Harbin's Secrets of Origami is due to hit the bookstores. From the
>Amazon Bookstore's Internet Search Page:
>
>    Secrets of Origami : The Japanese Art of Paper
>    Reprint Edition

>If this reprint does well, maybe that'll convince Dover to take a look at
>the other Harbin books. As to Randlett's Art of Origami & Best of Origami,
>Tom Hull mentioned in a recent posting that Sam Randlett currently works
>for St. Martins Press. Maybe we'll see reprints from them one day ;-)

        Wow!  This is wonderful news!  That's so weird that I asked this
question and knew absolutely nothing about it...I must be telepathetic!
;-D

                _,_
           ____/_\,)                    ..  _
--____-===(  _\/                         \\/ \-----_---__
           /\  '                        ^__/>/\____\--------
__________/__\_ ____________________________.//__.//_________

Jerry D. Harris                       (214) 768-2750
Dept. of Geological Sciences          FAX:  768-2701
Southern Methodist University
Box 750395                            jdharris@post.smu.edu
Dallas  TX  75275-0395                (Compuserve:  102354,2222)

"Science _does_ have all the answers -- we just don't have all
the science."
                        -- James Morrow





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 11:40:52 -0300 (ADT)
From: plank@cs.utk.edu
Subject: Re: Star Search

>What is your favorite STAR and where can the diagrams be found?
>I would appreciate any input you might care to offer.

My favorites are the 30-unit stellated dodecahedrons of Jeannine Mosely.

Pics at http://www.cs.utk.edu/~plank/plank/pics/origami/origami.html
Directions at http://www.cs.utk.edu/~plank/plank/pics/origami/mosely.txt

Jim





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:36:42 -0300 (ADT)
From: jtweres@lucent.com
Subject: Re: origamically estranged

Rob Hudson wrote:
> Let's start an informal mailing list (snail) for the origamically
> estranged!  Send me an application with a small submission to prove that
> you are disturbed.  We'll figure out all the administrativa later.
>
> The only stipulation to the submission is that it defy the ordinary.
> Content which is inappropriate for general discussion is probably ideal.
                                     \================/
                                      \              /
                                       \\\\\\\///////

let me commend you on the choice of snail mail
-- i wouldn't want to see general discussion on this subject
   after remembering what a stir that the "origami underground web site" created
   with its origami of a "sexual" nature
   although some may argue that the pony with "extra"
   may fall into your category of "origamically estranged"

  /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-///plieur de papier\\\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
 /=-= jack thomas weres                         jtweres@lucent.com =-=\
/=======================\\\================///=========================\
"Let Go and Let Fold"                             "One Crease At A Time"





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:33:14 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jeannine Mosely <j9@concentra.com>
Subject: Re: Star Search

Jim Plank wrote:

   >What is your favorite STAR and where can the diagrams be found?
   >I would appreciate any input you might care to offer.

   My favorites are the 30-unit stellated dodecahedrons of Jeannine Mosely.

   Pics at http://www.cs.utk.edu/~plank/plank/pics/origami/origami.html
   Directions at http://www.cs.utk.edu/~plank/plank/pics/origami/mosely.txt

Thanks Jim.  I'd just like to mention that Roberto Morassi also discovered
this module independently -- it is published in a book by Fuse on
international modular origami.  I'm not sure of the book's exact title.

        -- Jeannine





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 12:32:35 -0300 (ADT)
From: jtweres@lucent.com
Subject: RE: Various

something's up
with the listserver
and so far
          i haven't seen listed the problem that i had

          which was that i received the origami digest
          but anything i sent to the list
          went into the e-VOID

          the listserver never complained about the message
          and it never posted it

my solution
           was to do what others had done
           unsubscribe and subscribe again

i'm personally glad
that i'm not one of those folks
who has a problem unsubscribing from the list

  /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-///plieur de papier\\\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
 /=-= jack thomas weres                         jtweres@lucent.com =-=\
/=======================\\\================///=========================\
"Let Go and Let Fold"                             "One Crease At A Time"





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:08:47 -0300 (ADT)
From: jtweres@lucent.com
Subject: Re: HEY!!!!

Jeff Kerwood wrote:
> There are enough people in this world that really do mean
> to be nasty, we don't need to jump down the throats of
> people making innocent remarks.

you must remember jeff
that
    we are in the age of political-correctness
    where
         "anyone-can-jump-down-someone's-throat-for-an-innocent-remark"

not that i agree with PC
but "that's the facts, older than i person of female gender!"

otherwise commonly known as
                           "that's the facts, mam!"

  /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-///plieur de papier\\\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
 /=-= jack thomas weres                         jtweres@lucent.com =-=\
/=======================\\\================///=========================\
"Let Go and Let Fold"                             "One Crease At A Time"





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 13:38:18 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Backes, Nancy J (MN17)" <nbackes@p04.mn17.honeywell.com>
Subject: Re: Paul Jackson book

Oops,  I realize I made a bit a mistake in my last post about two Paul
Jackson books with the same name.

>Now, on to Paul Jackson.  I have seen mentioned here a book called
Encyclopedia of Origami and Papercraft by >Mr. Jackson.  That title
sounded like the one that I had found at Half Price Books, but I didn't
remember seeing a >rose tessellation in my book.  So I checked. I found
the version of the book with the rose tessellation at a different
>bookstore recently.  Sure enough, the book I bought is very different
than the other book but they have the  SAME >TITLE AND AUTHOR. How can
there be two different books with the same title by the same author?  The
book I >bought has origami, making paper, pop-ups, paper mache, but is
definitely not as "art" oriented as the one you >have talked about,  and
many of the projects are geared towards children.  I don't remember if
any of the models >are the same.  Buyer Beware!!  Just thought I'd let
you know.

I looked again at my book and found it does not actually list Paul
Jackson on the cover as the author.  The book is The Encyclopedia of
Origami and Papercraft Techniques, edited by Emma Callery.  Only her name
is on the cover.  Inside on the copyright page there is information on
the contents of the book:

"The material in this book previously appeared in An Introduction to
Puppets and Puppet-making by David Currell, The Encyclodepea of Origami
and Papercraft Techiques by Paul Jackson, Magnificent Mobiles by Melanie
Williams, Making Masks by Vivien Frank and Deborah Jaffe, Paper Airplanes
by Nick Robinson, Paper Animals by Robert J. Lang and Pop-Up Greetings
Cards by Mike Palmer."

So, I've answered my own question.  There are two books with the same
title, which could easily be misleading, but they are not listed as the
same author.

Nancy Backes
71623.3676@compuserve.com





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 14:22:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Origami Books for blind people

Jose Tomas Buitrago <buitrago@maxwell.univalle.edu.co> sez

>Are there books with instructions for fold, published for blind people ?
>
There are several references to origami with the visually impaired in
the COET book - see http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/coet.html

John Smith experimented with a method of vucuum-forming of origami
diagrams on plastic for this purpose.

all the best,

Nick Robinson

personal email  nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:07:19 -0300 (ADT)
From: rick@tridelta.com (Rick Bissell)
Subject: Re: Star Search

>>What is your favorite STAR and where can the diagrams be found?
>>I would appreciate any input you might care to offer.
>

My favorite star (and in fact, one of my all time favorite models)
is Phillip Shen's 10 pointed star, found in his book
"Selected Geometric Paperfolding" and also in Paul Jackson's
"The Complete Origami Course".   It is terrific!!!

   -- Rick





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 16:39:49 -0300 (ADT)
From: Pat Slider <slider@stonecutter.com>
Subject: re: gross/jackson books and web site.

>This reprinting of partial/hacked/different origami books
>under the same or virtually the same title seems to happen
>fairly often. Which is making me think that what we need
>is not only a bibliography with the details like no. of
>pages, ISBN number, date of publication, etc. but also
>a Web site with photos of covers.  Hmmmm, another project?

Sounds familiar....This is my ever forthcoming book review site!

I'm working on it....Really I am. A few hours a day, sometimes with this new
baby in my lap. Think I won't commit to a release date anymore though; I'm a
little embarassed by all my failed deadlines. I just keep underestimating
the time required. But I HOPE to have a working version by the end of the
month. About 75% complete so far. I'm enjoying myself :->.

As for book scans....Bren of Fascinating Folds kindly gave me permission to
copy hers from her site and I am already putting them in place. Plus I hope
to scan in some titles myself. I especially want to include scans of foreign
titles to aid in quick identification.

I'm sure this is likely to be one of those tasks that never ends....

pat slider
slider@stonecutter.com





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:09:49 -0300 (ADT)
From: Contractors Exchange <contract@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: American Lobster

At 08:51 AM 4/18/97 -0300, "JESPER LARSEN" <940094@udd.aalsem.dk> wrote:

>Last night I was working on a model called "American Lobster" from
>the book "Origami Sea Life" by Lang and Montroll. What a great book
>and what a great model. So much detail. It's great. I'll have to buy
>more books of this kind. Origami is fantastic and fun but very time
>consuming don't you agree? You need to be very patient. Not
>everybody can live up to that (I think) - so from that point of view not
>everybody can learn origami (at least not at this level). Any
>comments on this?

I think patience can be an issue, depending on how one takes on the
"folding experience." If the goal of folding is to come up with a completed
model, then folding for two hours can seem like a tiring experience. I
prefer to break up the folding process, and savor each major portion of a
model's development. I also know that some peope will critique a moded for
how climatic the folding sequence is. For some applications this is a trait
worth desiring, but i think sometime some of the subtlties of the folding
processed are missed. When I form a minor detail, and the model comes
alive, I still regard that as being climactic. If you can learn to
appreciate the sublties of folding, origami is never boring.
Marc

P.S. Will someone please tell me how to appreciate the subtlteis of modular
folding and precreasing?





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 17:39:59 -0300 (ADT)
From: Daddy-o D'gou <dwp+@transarc.com>
Subject: Re: gross/jackson books and web site.

Pat Slider wrote:
+As for book scans....Bren of Fascinating Folds kindly gave me permission to
+copy hers from her site and I am already putting them in place. Plus I hope
+to scan in some titles myself. I especially want to include scans of foreign
+titles to aid in quick identification.

I hate to toss a wet rag on this, but you do have permission from the
copyright holders to do this, right?

-D'gou





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 19:54:46 -0300 (ADT)
From: Charles Knuffke <Knuffke@Sirius.com>
Subject: Re: American Lobster

Contractors Exchange wrote:

> P.S. Will someone please tell me how to appreciate the subtlteis of > modular
     folding and precreasing?

A lobotomy might help ;-)

A personal reply, for fear of the flames from those who wouldn't get the
joke. I have a hard enough time when I have to repeat a set of steps
multiple times for multiple appendages; doing modulars is still more
work than pleasure.

Regards,

--
*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Charles Knuffke       "Amen the Thunderbolt in the Dark Void"
San Francisco, CA                              -Jack Kerouac
mailto://knuffke@sirius.com

Check out the Pacific Coast Origami Conference Website at:
http://www.sirius.com/~knuffke/PCOC.html





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:04:29 -0300 (ADT)
From: Charles Knuffke <Knuffke@Sirius.com>
Subject: Re: American Lobster

Charles Knuffke wrote:
>
> A personal reply, for fear of the flames from those who wouldn't get the
> joke. I have a hard enough time when I have to repeat a set of steps
> multiple times for multiple appendages; doing modulars is still more
> work than pleasure.
>

The above message was supposed to be sent to Marc, and not the entire
list. Please accept my apologizes to any who might be offended :-o)

(Darn, that send button sure is quick!)

Regards,





Date: Fri, 18 Apr 1997 20:33:38 -0300 (ADT)
From: DMAWolf@aol.com
Subject: Tokyo Tour

Dear Joesph Wu,
  To all of us who received the wonderful min-tour of Tokyo it was a
treasure.  For those of us stuck in the grind of work, families, and the
usual, what a lovely escape the word pictures and shared emotions of your
trip.  I have printed off a copy to share with my none computer, origami
friends.  Thanks again for all the effort and time it took too share with us.
  I sure there are others on the list who have visits with other origamist or
travels we would like to hear about.  Are you out there???
Go Forth and Fold
Diana Wolf





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 00:23:27 -0300 (ADT)
From: terryh@lamg.com (Terry Hall)
Subject: Re: Re: Fuse Books (Was: Unit Origami)

origami-l@nstn.ca,Internet writes:
If any of you are interested in pooling our modular origami and
or Fuse booklists

Valerie,
A complete listing of Tomoko Fuse's books with the titles in Kanji
(Japanese/Chinese characters), romaji (romanized Japanese) and English
translations + ISBN numbers for books from1981 -1996 was published in the
February 1997 newsletter of the West Coast Origami Guild (WCOG). The work was
done by Peter Messer, one of our members. A listing of 39 books is included
in Peter's work. Future issues of the newsletter will contain similar
listings of Kunihiko Kasahara and Yoshihide Momotani and a guide to the names
and ISBN prefixes used by Japanese companies that have published books on
origami.

Terry Hall
Editor/Publisher of the WCOG newsletter





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:19:39 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: permission for scans

Daddy-o D'gou <dwp+@transarc.com> sez

>I hate to toss a wet rag on this, but you do have permission from the
>copyright holders to do this, right?

Whilst appreciating the sentiments here, scans of commonly available
books are unlikely to involve copyright problems, (did the original
"scanee" ask the publishers for permission? Unlikely...) although it's
polite to ask. Personal shots are in a different league, I'd suggest.

all the best,

Nick Robinson

personal email  nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 09:41:39 -0300 (ADT)
From: Zachary Brown <zbrown@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
Subject: Re: permission for scans

> Daddy-o D'gou <dwp+@transarc.com> sez
>
> >I hate to toss a wet rag on this, but you do have permission from the
> >copyright holders to do this, right?
>
> Whilst appreciating the sentiments here, scans of commonly available
> books are unlikely to involve copyright problems, (did the original
> "scanee" ask the publishers for permission? Unlikely...) although it's
> polite to ask. Personal shots are in a different league, I'd suggest.

I think I missed the beginning of this discussion, but I'm pretty sure
that you *do* need permission to scan or otherwise copy copyrighted
material. OrigamiUSA has a leaflet about this very issue, I believe. Does
anyone have it on hand?

Zack

> all the best,
>
> Nick Robinson
>
> personal email  nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
> homepage        http://www.cheesypeas.demon.co.uk - all new look!
> BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
> RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:14:58 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse Books (Was: Unit Origami)

Terry wrote that lists of Fuse books (and other lists forthcoming)
were printed in the WCOG (West Coast Origami Guild) newsletter.

This is gratifying, but helpful only to members of that organization.
I'm not, as I rarely join organizations in which I cannot participate
(attend meetings etc.), and one can't join *everything* anyway.

Are copies of newsletters available for purchase to non-members?
Or perhaps WCOG could place a copy of these lists on a web site,
or in the origami-L archives? Or publish them in booklet form?
OUSA or perhaps Fascinating Folds and/or Kim's Cranes might be
interested in distributing them so that WCOG could defray the
costs of a small xeroxed publication?

Are these annotated lists? I have been working on annotations
of my list, i.e. descriptions of contents, comments on errors
(few in Fuses work) in the diagrams, hints for difficult areas,
etc.

I am also delighted that someone is paying long overdue attention
to Momotani's work, which I feel is poorly known in the USA at
least. (See my separate post on this.)

Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 10:58:11 -0300 (ADT)
From: Carol Martinson <carolm@library.stpaul.lib.mn.us>
Subject: Dollar Bill Rose

        I have received a request from one of our customers for the
instructions for a dollar bill rose.  I haven't done much money folding,
so I personally don't know of any models.  Through some searching, I have
come up with the following:

        Rosette by Paul Jackson in his book Folding Money.  I don't own
               this book, nor do I know anyone who does.

        3 Dollar Rose by Dorothy Kaplan in the 1989 Convention Annual of
               Friends of the Origami Society.  The customer wants to
               fold a dozen roses.  This could get quite expensive.

        2 Dollar Rose by Rosalind Joyce, also in the 1989 Convention
               Annual.  The core is a rosebud folded from one bill.

        Does anyone know of any other models in other Annuals or books or
???  He said he wants to fold this as a gift for an elderly lady who
volunteers at a community center.  Since he is not [yet] a member of our
local group, I do not have any feel for what skill level he is at.

        Thanks for any help.

        Carol Martinson
        carolm@library.stpaul.lib.mn.us





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:14:47 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Yoshihide Momotani

Terry Hall mentioned that WCOG will publish a listing of the works
of Yoshihide Momotani in a future newsletter.

I am delighted that someone is paying long overdue attention
to Momotani's work, which I feel is poorly known in the USA at
least; the books are in Japanese, but contain sufficient English
(Momotani's own translations, I presume), including English titles,
for English readers to use them without difficulty. Fascinating
Folds is currently carrying 5 of Momotani's books, one on kusudama,
one on ships, and 3 on flowers. OUSA's supply center carries some
also, including the wonderful architecture one.

This is not the cut paper "origami architecture", but more similar
collapsed into wonderful 3D textured stone walls, tiled roofs,
etc. The stone walls are complete with arched doorways and windows.
There is also a mind-blowing Japanese Temple.

The five books carried by Fascinating Folds include 3 on flowers.
These use occasional cuts and wire stems, but are absolutely
beautiful, exploiting the properties of folded paper in the best
origami tradition. Anyone who is into origami flower making must
see these! The one on Winter Flowers includes a super modular
"Christmas tree" (conifer/evergreen), and a photo shows a group
of these used in a scene with skiers and a massive stone lodge
constructed from the techniques in Momotani's architecture book.

The ship book includes some designs previously published but out
of print, and there are speedboats, aircraft carriers, an ocean
liner, various sail boats and a terrific schooner.

Like most Japanese published origami books, these are expensive
($25-30USA), but worth it.

Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:13:51 -0300 (ADT)
From: Steven Casey <scasey@enternet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Hint [formerly Not getting mail from the list]

Heres a hint about resetting the postpone option:

this is the *wrong* way

        SET ORIGAMI-L ACK  (<-- no option specified)

You'll get the following message:
>
>Invalid SET option ACK
>
>Syntax: set <list> [<option> <arg[s]>]
>       option: mail, password, address, conceal
>       arg for 'mail': ack/noack/postpone/digest
>       args for 'password': <current-password> <new-password>
>       args for 'address': <current-password> <new-address>
>       arg for 'conceal': yes/no
>
>Report any problems to 'listmgr@owl.nstn.ca'.
>For a list of the available requests send a message to listserver@nstn.ca
>with a body consisting of nothing but the word HELP
>
>PS: Any subsequent requests that you might have submitted have been ignored.
>

This the right way:

Syntax :      set <list>  <option> <arg>  (ie pattern)
ref:           1    2        3       4

in real life: set origami-l mail ack ( <-- you must specify the option )
ref:           1    2        3    4

leave the subject field blank.
file this away for reference :)

Best Wishes

Steven Casey
scasey@enternet.com.au

Melbourne, Australia





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 11:14:28 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: permission for scans

I too missed the beginning of this thread (not sure how, as
I have been receiving all of the origami-L).

At any rate, after the copious once or twice a year discussions
of copyright issues here on the list, this post astonishes me.

If what is being talked about is using a scanner to "copy"
"readily available materials" (i.e. printed origami material
that is available for purchase or through library loan), then
the process is the technical (and intentional) equivalent of
xerography, and is in USA law at least, for most purposes except
the most limited excerpts for reviews or the personal convenience
of the owner of a legal copy, a clear violation of copyright.

>From the usual ethical standpoint of the origami community, if
discussions here and the cited "origami ethics" printed by OUSA
in their convention annuals (and adhered to by OUSA in their
proceedings, classes, etc.), copying other people's origami
diagrams (except by sitting down and drawing by hand) for
distribution to others is also a violation of ethics.

If the "materials are readily available", it seems to me there
is even less excuse for doing so.

Philosophically, what it all gets down to is that artists
or craftspersons are entitled to the fruits of their creative
endeavors, including the satisfaction and pleasure of controlling
the distribution of their printed work, to say nothing of the
usually meager monetary returns on formally published/printed
diagrams and photos.

Any published origami artist who wishes to relinquish copyrights
(which in the USA obtain as soon as diagrams or drawings are put
on paper, as well as photos) can simply announce thereon that
the work is being put in the public domain for unlimited free
copying and distribution. That few (anybody know of one?) do so
surely creates a presumption that they desire to retain copyright.

Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 12:10:24 -0300 (ADT)
From: hull@MATH.URI.EDU
Subject: Re: American Lobster

Yo,

Marc "150+ steps to my models" wrote,

>>>
P.S. Will someone please tell me how to appreciate the subtlteis of modular
folding and precreasing?
<<<

Rushing to defend unit origami and tesselations (which are a classic
example of mega-precreasing), let me just point out that all
the elements of "savoring each fold" and reaching "climaxes" in
the folding sequence are present in both modular folding and
precreasing.

In an origami tesselation, oftentimes one spends hours doing
nothing but precreasing the paper, then collapsing it all
down in the end.  I can't begin to communicate what an
amazingly meditative and rewarding experience this can be.
With tesselations, precision is everything, so an intense
mount of concentration must be used for each pinched crease.
And at each stage in the precreasing I would find myself
standing back and marveling, in awe, at the intricate lattice
of creases that was forming before me.  The structure
of the model, the crease pattern, is not hidden from
view, as in traditional "step by step" folding.  Rather,
it's out there in all its splendor to be studied, understood
and appreciated!  In fact, I enjoy this method of folding
so much that one I decided to fold Jun Maekawa's Demon
(from Viva! Origami - an incredibly complex and elegant model)
by the crease pattern ** only **, conveniently given in
the book.  This required much studying of the model's
geometry, but the end result was a VERY well-done Demon, and
I learned heaps about the model's structure in the process.

Modular origami is pure meditation, plain and simple.  If you
take pride in the quality of the finished work, you need, again,
to concentrate on each unit, making it as percise as posible.
What an intense joy it is, to sit down, clear your mind, and
fold a few hundred Sonobe units!  Forget your daily pressures,
forget the dishes in the sink.  Just put on some music and
fold.  After an hour or so of this your mind is CLEAN, like
a fresh slate - all ready to resume working on higher
mathematics!  And you'll have a LOT of units after an
hour of steady folding.

In both of these examples, the final collapsing, or putting
together of units is the ultimate climax.  Working a large,
intensely precreased sheet of paper into the form it wants
to collapse into is -- undescribable!  You're at the core of
the paperfolding process, literally *dancing* with the
paper (I'm stealing Michael LaFosse's terminology here, but
it's so appropriate!)  To coax the paper into the fished form
is euphoric!  And modular origami - to see these wild 3-D
polyhedra, dazzling with colors, emerge before your eyes
like a complex crystal!!  Every time I set out on a large,
multi-hundred unit modular project I am always intensely
rewarded.  The hours devoted to folding units results in
such a beautiful work of art.  This, and writing books,
is probably the closest I'll come to knowing the experience
of giving birth!

I hope that begins to explain why some of us nuts eat up
modular origami and spend hours precreasing.  In the end
there is no difference - all origami posseses these qualities
and is equally rewarding.  Just like jazz (or rap, or hardcore
techno!) can be just as beautiful as classical music, if only
one takes the time to appreciate the genres in their own terms.

--- Tom "open my mouth, a river pours out" Hull
    hull@math.uri.edu
    http://www.math.uri.edu/~hull





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 14:08:50 -0300 (ADT)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: Re: Yoshihide Momotani

Valerie Vann wrote:

>I am delighted that someone is paying long overdue attention
>to Momotani's work

Thank you, Valerie, for mentioning this. On a more personal ground, I can
add (as many folders don't know) that he does not work in isolation. The
whole family is heavily involved in origami projects, books, exhibitions,
articles, etc.: Yoshihide (a Professor of Biochemistry), his wife Sumiko
(the "English expert"), daughter Eriko (now studying and working in Paris)
and older son Eiki. Having met all of them several times, I can assure they
are a delightful, witty and very friendly group !

One recent Momotani article, on the Japanese science magazine NEWTON, deals
with "origami science": reproduction of prehistoric animals, fossils, DNA,
HIV virus, biological membranes etc.

Roberto





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 18:02:00 -0300 (ADT)
From: pat slider <slider@stonecutter.com>
Subject: Re: ORIGAMI-L digest 694

>I too missed the beginning of this thread (not sure how, as
>I have been receiving all of the origami-L).

>At any rate, after the copious once or twice a year discussions
>of copyright issues here on the list, this post astonishes me.

This topic began from my "gross/jackson book & web stie"
posting....And the reference to scans was only about scans of book
covers.

As for my use of cover  scans at the book review site....Don't think
this issue will keep me up late tonight.  I doubt any one will hassle
me for the free advertising.

I would be amazed if scanning book covers is a copyright
issue at all in this context. Covers have been duplicated for decades
by newspapers for  book reviews  And of course they are common in
mail-order book catalogs, both  on paper and online.

Of course I would ask the publisher about reproducing anything
between the covers....But now that I write this, seems to me I
have seen text on copyright pages giving permission to use portions
of the content for advertising purposes. And I know that newspapers
don't ask for permission to use excerpts in reviews. Think I shall
have to research where the line is on this one. I expect
it is subjective....Obviously you can't reproduce a full set of
diagrams, but a quote from Engel's book wouldn't raise any eyebrows,
eh?

pat slider
slider@stonecutter.com

reprint covers. If not, all those mail-order book catalogs and online
book stores have been crossing the lines for years.





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 18:27:11 -0300 (ADT)
From: Marty Katz <mandrk@pb.net>
Subject: Re: American Lobster

> P.S. Will someone please tell me how to appreciate the subtlteis of modular
> folding and precreasing?
> <<<
>
Tom,

Your response was marvelous especially your reference to giving birth.

Rachel Katz
Origami - it's not just for squares!





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 19:21:23 -0300 (ADT)
From: gail armstrong <jaelle1@airmail.net>
Subject: Re: ORIGAMI-L digest 694

At 06:02 PM 4/19/97 -0300, you wrote:
>>I too missed the beginning of this thread (not sure how, as
>>I have been receiving all of the origami-L).
>
>>At any rate, after the copious once or twice a year discussions
>>of copyright issues here on the list, this post astonishes me.
>
>
>This topic began from my "gross/jackson book & web stie"
>posting....And the reference to scans was only about scans of book
>covers.
>

Hello

    I have never been on a mailing list and this is my first posting so I
hope I do this correctly. I have worked in law offices and sat on many
Boards for Federal law agencies. This may help clear up the issue of copy
write on covers.

    Scanning any material for personal use only is not an infrigement of
copy right laws. Scaning for profit however is. As to covers. They are
protected by copyright. The cover art is is copy written. I have not hard
of a case where anyone was taken to court over this but for the record.
Covers are protected under copywrite. When magazines .. off or on line ...
use a cover for a selling point they have permission ...as a book seller or
reviewer ..to do so. As do Newspapers. THe artists who draw these covers
have the art copy written adn reproduction without permission is illegal.

    If you reproduce them for NON profit then it is not illegal. When used
for display or to show a point etc etc etc then this is fine. If however
you make a profit from the book by displaying the cover you must have
permission from the Artist... the publisher and the author of the book. As
a reviewer you are within your rights to use the cover for your reviews only.

Hope this helps.

Gail

>As for my use of cover  scans at the book review site....Don't think
>this issue will keep me up late tonight.  I doubt any one will hassle
>me for the free advertising.
>
>I would be amazed if scanning book covers is a copyright
>issue at all in this context. Covers have been duplicated for decades
>by newspapers for  book reviews  And of course they are common in
>mail-order book catalogs, both  on paper and online.
>
>Of course I would ask the publisher about reproducing anything
>between the covers....But now that I write this, seems to me I
>have seen text on copyright pages giving permission to use portions
>of the content for advertising purposes. And I know that newspapers
>don't ask for permission to use excerpts in reviews. Think I shall
>have to research where the line is on this one. I expect
>it is subjective....Obviously you can't reproduce a full set of
>diagrams, but a quote from Engel's book wouldn't raise any eyebrows,
>eh?
>
>pat slider
>slider@stonecutter.com
>
>
>
>
>reprint covers. If not, all those mail-order book catalogs and online
>book stores have been crossing the lines for years.





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 20:37:34 -0300 (ADT)
From: Mike and Janet Hamilton <mikeinnj@concentric.net>
Subject: Re: permission for scans

Valerie Vann wrote:
>
> If what is being talked about is using a scanner to "copy"
> "readily available materials" (i.e. printed origami material
> that is available for purchase or through library loan), then
> the process is the technical (and intentional) equivalent of
> xerography, and is in USA law at least, for most purposes except
> the most limited excerpts for reviews or the personal convenience
> of the owner of a legal copy, a clear violation of copyright.

The beginning of this thread was not talking about scanning diagrams,
but  of scanning covers of books to be used in an "origami bibliography"
website.  The cover scans were for aid in identifying books in various
languages.  Since the cover is sort of an advertisement for the
contents, and it's point is to help convince people to purchase the
book, it may be subject to different standards as far as copyright
issues.

Janet Hamilton

--
mailto:Mikeinnj@concentric.net
http://www.concentric.net/~Mikeinnj/





Date: Sat, 19 Apr 1997 22:10:17 -0300 (ADT)
From: Steven Casey <scasey@enternet.com.au>
Subject: Re: permission for scans

At 08:37 PM 19/04/97 -0300, you wrote:

>The beginning of this thread was not talking about scanning diagrams,
>but  of scanning covers of books to be used in an "origami bibliography"
>website.  The cover scans were for aid in identifying books in various
>languages.  Since the cover is sort of an advertisement for the
>contents, and it's point is to help convince people to purchase the
>book, it may be subject to different standards as far as copyright
>issues.
>
>Janet Hamilton
>

In addition the author is receiving full credit and acknowledgement. Nobody
is stealing the intellectual material, and claiming it as their own. Many
book chains reproduce book covers in catalogs for the purpose of promotion
with out any qualms. And a number of 'book covers and comic covers' are
reproduced as guides for collectors. Think of this instance as a visual
bibliography. People may be encouraged to seek out the books and buy them
(new or second hand).

Steven Casey

scasey@enternet.com.au
