




Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 12:02:52 -0400 (AST)
From: Kristine Tomlinson <ktomlinson@platinum.com>
Subject: Re: Business card folding in Japan (NOT)

Hi,

Please let me add my name to the list of thank-you's to Joseph Wu for
sharing details of Japanese business card etiquette.  Joseph's comments
will be added to my ever growing list of beliefs about paper.  But I had to
gasp myself when I read the posting, because sitting on top of my
monitor is an 8-card cube made out of my own business cards.  Now
what does that say about *my* self-respect? :-}  :-}

I'm working on an English to Japanese help file translation, and was
hoping my office origami collection would spark some interesting
conversations with our Japanese project leader. (It didn't.)

By the way, coworkers love this cube and I once gave one to a coop
student as a goodbye present using a card from each of us in the group.
He really liked it.  I'm sure it's not original, but I dreamed it up at home
     sick
in bed with a fever and so am rather fond of it.  Prepare 8 cards the
same way as for the modular Jeannine Mosely's sponge uses:  1. Place
one business card on top of the other centered at 90-degree angles with
the plain sides together.  Now fold the ends over.  This creates a square
with rectangluar flaps on each card.  Fold 8 cards this way.  2.  Lay one
card on top of the other at 90-degree angles so the flaps point upward.
This is the cube base.  3. Slip a card vertically onto each flap, creating
the sides.  From above it resembles a Maltese cross.  4. Repeat step two
and use for the top of the cube.  It's very sturdy.  I made lots of them
with different logos (previous jobs) and use them as play building blocks.

Kristine
ktomlinson@platinum.com
Waltham, MA, USA





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 13:32:45 -0400 (AST)
From: teasel@juno.com (Teasel)
Subject: GET ME OFF THIS LIST

I can finally understand why so many people have used vulgar
language to get off the list ... I never use such language,
but am so desperate I'm ready to try.

I have tried everything to unsubscribe from this list,
meticulously following the instructions from the welcoming
message (which I had dutifully saved), also trying everything
else I could think of, and finally writing to the listowner.

No luck (although several days have passed, there was not
even a response, which one gets from every other list,
whether a confirmation or a notification that the command was
incorrect).  All messages to listserv@nstn.ca or the
listowner just seem to hit some bottomless pit.

And now comes a long message including some sort of "attached
image" (which Juno users cannot read).  That's great for
those of you who can use it, but the last thing I need.

I have cataracts in both eyes and am waiting for my blood
presure (usually perfectly normal, but apparently way up
from the stress) to go down so I can have surgery.  It is
therefore exceedingly difficult for me to get through
messages such as the above.  That's my problem - but being
unable to unsubscribe from this list is adding insult to
injury (_AND_ raising my blood pressure, I might add).

I have triede verything, including writing to the listowner.
But I have never received any form of response, just as I
did not receive any form of response when I tried requesting
the digest.  (The only reason I'm trying to unsubscribe is
because I could not get any response to my request for the
digest.)

I do not want to have to inconvenience innocent list members
by reposting this message twenty times a day, or whatever, to
induce someone to take action.  However, I can finally
understand the frustration of members who have posted
vulgarity in an effort to unsubscribe.  When nothing else
works (indluding all the directions from the welcoming EMail
message), one becomes very desperate.

PLEASE GET ME OFF THIS LIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you very much.





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 15:23:36 -0400 (AST)
From: RA Kennedy <kennedra@isdugp.bham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Is everybody sleeping?

If you have been postponed you cannot see messages sent to origami-l.
In order to help people who have been postponed you need to send a message
to them directly. Unfortunately Valerie has not put her email address at
the bottom of the message, so I've not been able to send her the message
I have sent to others who have become postponed. The appropriate action
is to send the message given by Peter:

SET MAIL ORIGAMI-L ACK

Bye

Richard K.
(R.A.Kennedy@bham.ac.uk)





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 15:28:12 -0400 (AST)
From: RA Kennedy <kennedra@isdugp.bham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Recovering from loss of mail.

Oh dear, one slight mistake in the last message, anyway, here is what I
usually send to people suffering postponement (symptoms - no mail from
origami-l, but still on the list of subscribers returned by sending
REVIEW ORIGAMI-L to listserv@nstn.ca, mail sent to origami-l does not
bounce).

>
> Good evening, friends,
>
> Thank you to everyone who offered me advice on how to recover from
> suddenly finding that origami-l had stopped sending me mail. I
> received a helpful message from the list manager, part of which I
> reproduce below:
>
>
> Hi Richard.
>
> Looks like you were set to POSTPONE, which means that you don't get
> mail from the list till you set it back to ACK or NOACK.
> ACK means that you see your own messages that you send.
>
> To fix it, send a message to listserv@nstn.ca, with no subject (you don't
> want to chance confusing the listserver), and the following body.
>
> HELP SET
> SET ORIGAMI-L
> SET ORIGAMI-L MAIL NOACK
> END
>
> The above will send you the list of set commands, with explanations,
> tell you your settings for the list, and then set you to receive
> mail, but without seeing the mail you send to the list (use ACK in place
> of NOACK if you wish to see the mail you send).
>
> Ciao,
>       Shane
>
> This avoids having to unsubscribe and resubscribe, which can take days
> to process. I hope this helps others who are suddenly disconnected, which
> seems to be quite a common occurence.
>
> It's good to be back!
>
> Richard K.
> (R.A.Kennedy@bham.ac.uk)
> Birmingham, England.





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 15:13:50 -0400 (AST)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: Re: Quoting (NO)

Matthias,

At 17.51 5/3/1997 -0400, you wrote:

>Id appreciate it very much if some people would reconsider
>their quoting habits.

You are not off-topic. "Integral" quoting, as most people do (being
apparently too lazy to edit the "reply" window prepared by their
mail-reader) is a bad habit, contrary to netiquette rules as it means
crowding the Net with useless bytes, and ultimately wasting other people's
time, disk space and... money.

I'm afraid this may explain (at least in part) why some people seem to be
willing to unsubscribe the list. So, please, would anybody try and clip
previous messages to a few lines, just as needed to follow a thread without
problems ?

Sorry for joining this complaint.... I think it's unavoidable :-)

Thanks all.

Roberto





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 15:41:10 -0400 (AST)
From: Jennifer Andre <JAndre@cfipro.com>
Subject: Re[2]: Quoting (Not Entirely NO)

     Roberto wrote:
     <snip>
     >So, please, would anybody try and clip previous messages to a few
     >lines, just as needed to follow a thread <another snip>

     I think this is one time when even we Origamists can cut without
     guilt!

     - Jennifer
     JAndre@cfipro.com
     Portland, Oregon, USA
     Fold it, ergo sum!





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 16:17:40 -0400 (AST)
From: Bob Shuster <bob.shuster@webphoria.com>
Subject: The Physics of Paper Crumpling webpage

Not *really* origami-related, but enough of you folks are strange enough to
perhaps find this interesting! :)

http://www.msc.cornell.edu/~houle/crumpling/

Happy folding   - Bob Shuster

Coming soon - new and improved origami site - same address!
http://www.webphoria.com/origami.html

 [ Webphoria Design & Consulting - custom graphics & site design ]
 [   email: bob.shuster@webphoria.com      phone: 215-927-4928   ]
 [             website: http://www.webphoria.com                 ]





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 16:42:22 -0400 (AST)
From: Kristine Tomlinson <ktomlinson@platinum.com>
Subject: More on Japanese business card etiquette

Hi,

After telling my coworker the story about the recent postings on
business cards and Japanese etiquette, she added that in her former
company doing business in Japan, they  1. had to remove the color red
from their business cards even though it was part of their logo  2. in
addition to turning the card face down when handing it to someone, you
also were supposed to exchange something with it (she couldn't
remember what), and 3. she said the cards were printed in English on
one side and Japanese on the other (so there was no blank back).
Presumably, the Japanese side would be face down, the English face
up.

Joseph Wu or others, any more input on this topic?  I always thought red
was an auspicious color -- at least for ceremonial purposes.  Is it
inappropriate for business and if so, why?  I'm very interested in this
topic because I'm interested in cultural perceptions of paper and its
properties and also collect business cards (mostly for the typography
and design).

Kristine
ktomlinson@platinum.com
Waltham, MA, USA





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 17:15:37 -0400 (AST)
From: Kim Best <kim.best@m.cc.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: GET ME OFF THIS LIST

Teasel wrote:

> I have tried everything to unsubscribe from this list,
> meticulously following the instructions from the welcoming
> message (which I had dutifully saved), also trying everything
> else I could think of, and finally writing to the listowner.
>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I know responding to this kind of thing should be normally be done
through private e-mail.  But we see this kind of thing so often, I
wanted to respond not only to Teasal but anybody else having trouble
getting of the list.

Your talking to the wrong people!  If writing to the list owner did no
good, what makes you think writing to the individual subscribers will!
Sending mail to origmi-l gets recieved by a list serving computer
program and is automatically sent to the other subscribers to the list.
I all probability, nobody in authority even sees your request.

> PLEASE GET ME OFF THIS LIST!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I WOULD, BUT I DON'T KNOW HOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

--
Kim Best                            *******************************
                                    *          Origamist:         *
Rocky Mountain Cancer Data System   * Some one who thinks paper   *
420 Chipeta Way #120                * thin, means thick and bulky *
Salt Lake City, Utah  84108         *******************************





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 18:17:43 -0400 (AST)
From: Douglas Zander <dzander@solaria.sol.net>
Subject: Re: More on Japanese business card etiquette

Removing the red color from business cards as well as the other talk about
ettiquette reminds me of a book I saw several years ago.  It was a book of
ettiquette for business people.  It talked about the things Joseph Wu
discussed as well as ettiquette in other countries.  There was one story
about how a non-Japanese toothpaste manufacturer couldn't figure out why
their toothpaste wasn't selling in Japan.  It seems they decorated their
toothpaste tubes with red and write stripes; in Japan red and white stripes
means that the container holds poison.  I wonder if the red on the business
cards looked too much like the Japanese poison symbol?

--
 Douglas Zander                | many things interest me, too many to list
 dzander@solaria.sol.net       | here.  if you want a profile :-)  why not
 Milwaukee, Wisconsin, USA     | send me a letter?  tell me about yourself,
 "Over-looking Lake Michigan." | I'll tell you about myself.





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 18:50:22 -0400 (AST)
From: Marcia Mau <marcia.mau@pressroom.com>
Subject: National Postal Museum's Envelope Contest Ends March 15, 1997

I rec'd the following information by fax today.  This information was in
British Origami Magazine's February issue.

I offerred to fwd it to this list - any typos are mine!  FYI, I will be
leading a free envelope/letterfold workshop at the National Postal Museum on
Saturday, June 7th from 1-4PM.  It is located at 2 Massachusetts Ave, NE,
Washington, DC, across the street from Union Station.  No registration
necessary.

Marcia Mau

                        National Postal Museum
                        The Graceful Envelope Contest 1997

The Smithsonian Institution's National Postal Museum is sponsoring The
Graceful Envelope Contest 1997.  Approximately 75 winning entries will be
displayed in a museum exhibition "Pushing the Envelope."  The exhibit,
located in both the Art of Cards and Letters gallery and the Discovery
Center, opens May 23, 1997.

Contest Information:

Two categories.  Entries can be made of paper, lightweight cardboard,
fabric, yarn, ribbon, beads, etc.  The use of original, hand-made or
hand-designed, rubber stamps is permitted if well-integrated into the
overall design.  "Mail Art" composed of commercial images, clip art,
stickers, magazines, newspapers, wrapping paper etc. is NOT permitted.

Category 1:  "The Graceful Envelope" Criteria for Selection
"The Graceful Envelope" entries (calligraphy/lettering on traditional
envelopes) will be selected primarily on the creative use of original
calligraphy/lettering and art toward the overall design of the envelope.
Inventive relationships between the postage stamp and the envelope design
are encouraged.

Category 2:  "Pushing the Envelope" Criteria for Selection
"Pushing the Envelope" entries are creative hand-made envelopes and will be
selected primarily for the creative use of hand-folded paper or other forms
of paper construction, cut-outs, embossing, weaving, etc. toward the overall
design of the envelope.  Original calligraphy/lettering and inventive
relationships between the postage stamp and the envelope design are encouraged.

Contest Rules

1.  All entries must be postmarked no later than March 15, 1997.

2.  All entries must be sealed, processed and delivered first class through
the U.S. Mail to the Smithsonian's National Postal Museum.

3.  Entries must be addressed to either "The Graceful Envelope" or "Pushing
the Envelope" care of the National Postal Museum to the address specified
(The National Postal Museum, Smithsonian Institution, Washington, DC 20560,
USA).

4.  Envelopes will not be opened.  Legibly print your name and complete
address on the back of each envelope.

5.  All entries must be no smaller than (3 1/2" x 5 1/2") and no larger than
(5 1/2" x 7 1/2").

6.  The envelope depth must not exceed 1/4 inch (to be displayable).

7.  One envelope per entrant per category will be selected.

The National Postal Museum will not acknowledge receipt of entries.
However, all contestants will be notified by April 25, 1997, as to the final
Education Department of the National Postal Museum and will not be returned.

Good Luck!
Marcia Mau
Vienna, VA USA
marcia.mau@pressroom.com





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 21:28:38 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Business card folding in Japan (NOT!)

On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, Steve Woodmansee wrote:

=At 09:02 PM 3/5/97 -0400, Joseph Wu wrote:
=
=>I would expect that blank card stock would pose no problems. I don't know
=>if the Japanese have considered card folding, however. Perhaps we could
=>convince Oru to do a feature on Jeannine's work?

=Probably depends on whether or not someone is willing to re-fold all the
=models with blank card stock.  I haven't seem the models myself but read
=earlier this week that some fold these models with the logo's and other
=information facing inward - true?  If so maybe the photos at hand would be
=sufficient...
=
=How would we make this enquiry to Oru?

Well, this is all kinda moot now that Oru is "folding"...

 Joseph Wu - origami@planet.datt.co.jp - http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami
> It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on
yourself. We can teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach you how YOU
paint. There's More Than One Way To Do It.
> Have the appropriate amount of fun.    --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 21:43:10 -0400 (AST)
From: Irie40@aol.com
Subject: Re: piano lessons

I took piano lessons from Sister Rita Josephine in Brooklyn, NY all
throughout elementary school.  I can still read music, but can only play Bali
Hi and Leiberstraum (sp) by heart (besides of course Chop Sticks and Heart
and Soul LOL!)

Irie40@aol.com





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 21:56:23 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: More on Japanese business card etiquette

On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, Douglas Zander wrote:

=Removing the red color from business cards as well as the other talk about
=ettiquette reminds me of a book I saw several years ago.  It was a book of
=ettiquette for business people.  It talked about the things Joseph Wu
=discussed as well as ettiquette in other countries.  There was one story
=about how a non-Japanese toothpaste manufacturer couldn't figure out why
=their toothpaste wasn't selling in Japan.  It seems they decorated their
=toothpaste tubes with red and write stripes; in Japan red and white stripes
=means that the container holds poison.  I wonder if the red on the business
=cards looked too much like the Japanese poison symbol?

I got looks of puzzlement when I asked about this on just now. Perhaps the
author of that book didn't check his sources closely enough? No one seems to
know about a red & white stripe pattern referring to poison.

 Joseph Wu - origami@planet.datt.co.jp - http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami
> It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on
yourself. We can teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach you how YOU
paint. There's More Than One Way To Do It.
> Have the appropriate amount of fun.    --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 21:48:30 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: More on Japanese business card etiquette

On Thu, 6 Mar 1997, Kristine Tomlinson wrote:

=After telling my coworker the story about the recent postings on
=business cards and Japanese etiquette, she added that in her former
=company doing business in Japan, they  1. had to remove the color red
=from their business cards even though it was part of their logo

I don't understand this one. Perhaps it was just for the sake of printing
costs? Printing costs a fortune here, so much so that large jobs are often
printed overseas to save money. Also, many companies, if they use the 2-sided
English/Japanese cards, will have colour only on the Japanese side, but not
on the English side, to save printing costs.

=2. in addition to turning the card face down when handing it to someone, you
=also were supposed to exchange something with it (she couldn't remember
=what), and

What do you mean by "face down"? The card should be presented so that the text
is face up and turned so that it is "right-side-up" for the receiver to read
the text on the card. Exchange something with it? Not usually. Just your name
and good wishes.

=3. she said the cards were printed in English on one side and
=Japanese on the other (so there was no blank back).  Presumably, the Japanese
=side would be face down, the English face up.

Typically, you present the card with the language of choice of the receiver
facing up so that they can read it. Take a guess if you don't know. 8) This
isn't a major point, since they can always turn the card over if necessary.

=Joseph Wu or others, any more input on this topic?  I always thought red
=was an auspicious color -- at least for ceremonial purposes.  Is it
=inappropriate for business and if so, why?  I'm very interested in this
=topic because I'm interested in cultural perceptions of paper and its
=properties and also collect business cards (mostly for the typography
=and design).

Red is more important as a colour of auspiciousness in Chinese culture. I
can't see why it would be considered inappropriate for business, though, in
China or Japan. (I collect business cards for typography and design, too.)

 Joseph Wu - origami@planet.datt.co.jp - http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami
> It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on
yourself. We can teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach you how YOU
paint. There's More Than One Way To Do It.
> Have the appropriate amount of fun.    --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 21:52:19 -0400 (AST)
From: Kathleen Lloyd <klloyd@netside.com>
Subject: Re: Creasing tools... (and single-crease folding)

Card Makers use a tool designed for "dry embossing".  It is a stylus with
rounded metal ends -- one end is larger than the other.  These are now very
popular with art stampers and can be found in stores or catalogs that
specialize in art-stamping.
supplies.  The rounded ends protect against cutting into the paper.  I've
had great success with it.  Forget the fingernail creasing -- my
fingernails aren't strong enough!

Kathie -- with the ugly fingernails!





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 22:15:46 -0400 (AST)
From: "James M. Sakoda" <James_Sakoda@brown.edu>
Subject: Re: MacWarehouse acrobat 3 offer

Our of curiosity I called MacWarehouse about the special offer of Acoibat
3.0 for Microsoft Office owners for half price ($99).  They said that they
had not yet received the supply and it was possible to order it.  For those
interested in creating pdf files from eps output from a drawing program
this is an opportunity, although I don't know how soon the delivery will
take place.  The package also contains Acrobat Exchange, which can
substitute for the Acrobat Reader 3.0, but has the advantage that it can
output eps files, whcdh the acrobat reader cannot.  If you download a pdf
file and want to convert it to eps, Acrobat Exchange can do it.  I think
Freehand 7 can also do it.  If you are interested call 1-800-255-6227 and
ask for Item SID 0372 (Macintosh CD Rom) or Item SI 2424 (Windows CD-Rom).
James M. Sakoda  PDF origami site:
http://idt.net/~kittyv





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 22:19:06 -0400 (AST)
From: Irie40@aol.com
Subject: Re: More on Japanese business card etiquette

Since the Japanese hate red and white stripes so much, they must HATE the USA
flag!  Also Britain''s flag.





Date: Thu, 06 Mar 1997 22:38:07 -0400 (AST)
From: Kathleen Lloyd <klloyd@netside.com>
Subject: Re: Get Me off This List

In response to the response <G> -- Ouch!

At 05:15 PM 3/6/97 -0400, you wrote:
>
>> I have tried everything to unsubscribe from this list,
>>
>>                                    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>I know responding to this kind of thing should be normally be done
>through private e-mail.  But we see this kind of thing so often, I
>wanted to respond not only to Teasal but anybody else having trouble
>getting of the list.
>
Yes, we do indeed see a lot of this kind of thing.  Which tells me it may
be a bit difficult to unsubscribe.  (I spent many frustrating hours trying
to do so with another list.  Ultimately, I called my local Internet Service
Provider.  Technical support found a minor change in my e-mail settings
that was not in place when I subscribed.  This was enough to prevent the
list server from recognizing me.  One additional line and I was recognized
and off the list.)

>Your talking to the wrong people!  If writing to the list owner did no
>good, what makes you think writing to the individual subscribers will!

While there are many such posts on unsubscribing, this one did have
additional information.  The writer stated she is suffering from cataracts
on both eyes and is apparently experiencing other health problems.  She
also apologized for writing to the list; she was desperate so she took
desperate measures!  Surely, someone out there can help her.  She may have
to do as I did -- contact her provider for technical help with mail
settings.  On the other hand, it may be a simple fix and one of you could
give her the information she needs.

Back to creasing cards and papers. . .

Kathie -- the one without fingernails.





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 08:16:05 -0400 (AST)
From: imcarrie@actrix.gen.nz (Ian Carrie)
Subject: Lurker musings

As a long time lurker and infrequent poster on this list, I have finally
decided to contribute to a number of recent threads:

Getting started in origami: my interest was sparked by a minor character in
a murder mystery who folded to wile away the time waiting for something to
happen. The trail of folds he left helped the detectives solve the mystery.
Next time I was on the Net I did a search on 'origami' just for the hell of
it, got to Joseph Wu's page, from there to 'Fascinating Folds', ordered a
book and paper from them and haven't stopped folding since!

This list is important to me because I have yet to meet another folder
face-to-face and it is great to hear about others struggles and joys. I am
not alone! I was very interested to learn that Valerie Vann is involved in
engineering , because I trained and worked for many years as a civil
engineer and have discovered that modular folding is my favourite thing. I
get the same sort of joy from it as I did many years ago from making
pottery; it is the decorative possibilities that interest me, the interplay
of shapes, colours and textures. I really empathise with someones signature
quote along the lines of 'I can give up buying paper anytime'.

I have recently borrowed a copy of Gay Merrill  Goss's 'The Art of Origami'
from our local library. It seems to me a very good introductory text, clear
diagrams, good information and a wide range of interesting folds including
the Butterfly Ball. I also like 'Living Origami' (Takuji Sugimara) and
'Creative Origami' (Toyoaki Kawai). The snowflake in 'Living Origami'
provided me with a first remarkable lesson in the significance of
understanding the rhythm and pattern of a folding sequence.

I am not dyslexic nor do I have any allergies. However I do play the piano
and have a certain left-handed facility; I played a number of sports
left-handed eg golf, tennis and cricket.

Now I shal return to my quite enjoyment of the conversations on origami-l.

Ian Carrie
Welington
New Zealand





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 08:18:31 -0400 (AST)
From: Dave Howe <davehowe@conneti.com>
Subject: Re: Street Bike (motorcycle) model.

Hi again,

        Thanks for the info (again).  I went to the Web site for the Honda,
that's the place!  How do I get a copy of the newsletter, or the book?
I tried to find out more info but the site was incredibly slow to
connect to.  I've never heard of "super complex" origami before, let me
know how the rest of the book is.
        Anyways, I never made it to the PALM meeting 2 weeks ago, I had to work
all weekend.  Not too bad though, I spent the time building a space
craft for an upcoming 4 hour pilot :)
        Talk to ya soon,

        Dave R. Howe
        davehowe@conneti.com





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 08:18:46 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: More on Japanese business card etiquette

On Thu, 6 Mar 1997 Irie40@aol.com wrote:

=Since the Japanese hate red and white stripes so much, they must HATE the USA
=flag!  Also Britain''s flag.

Well, like I said, I think the author of that book was mistaken. Red and white
(when used together) are generally considered auspicious colours in Japan.
White by itself is associated with death, however. Besides, Japanese flag
(which is not officially recognised as the national flag, BTW) is red and
white. As for red and white stripes, I've seen people wear clothes with that
pattern here, and every barber shop has a barber pole! Let's not jump to
conclusions based on one person's (quite likely mistaken) information. (For
that matter, you don't have to believe me, either!)

 Joseph Wu - origami@planet.datt.co.jp - http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami
> It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on
yourself. We can teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach you how YOU
paint. There's More Than One Way To Do It.
> Have the appropriate amount of fun.    --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 08:17:26 -0400 (AST)
From: mfox2@juno.com
Subject: Re: Get Me off This List

>GET ME OFF TOO!!!! I HATE THIS LIST.PLEASE SOMEONE TELL ME HOW TO GET
OOFFF!a!a!





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 08:18:57 -0400 (AST)
From: DLister891@aol.com
Subject: Re: Quoting (NO)

I'm glad that the matter of "Quoting" has come up for discussion. For some
time now, I have felt very impatient with the somwtimes grossly excessive
habit of unedited quoting of other people's postings.

The facility of quoting from a previous communication is a very valuable tool
in E-mail and it has many uses. However, too many people have seen it just as
an easy way of replying to letters and it has become an established habit, if
not an accepted convention of E-mail to do it.

To me, it seems hardly ever to be necessary. It is never done in snail-mail
letters (Obviously!). But in snail mail there is no difficlty in referrring
briefly in one's letter to previous correspondence and the point being
discussed. Why do people not do this in E-mail? It's not difficult and it
would save megabytes of space! And, into the bargain, messages would be
clearer and more to the point.

The reason, as I have suggested, is becouse it has become a way of doing
things, regardless of whether it is the best way. Newcomers follow what
earlier subscribers apear to do, and so it becomes fashionable, if not part
of the law of the Medes and Persions. But I suspect that  the alleged
pressure and speed of modern life and, dare I say it, laziness, also
contribute.

Even E-mail can be courteous, clearly written and even elegant. I hope i'm
not a voice crying in the wilderness.

David Lister

Grimsby, England,

DLister891@AOL





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 10:03:57 -0400 (AST)
From: Bernie Cosell <bernie@fantasyfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Quoting (NO)

On  7 Mar 97 at 8:19, DLister891@aol.com wrote:

> The facility of quoting from a previous communication is a very valuable tool
> in E-mail and it has many uses. However, too many people have seen it just as
> an easy way of replying to letters and it has become an established habit, if
> not an accepted convention of E-mail to do it.

I'm not sure I follow what you mean her, about being "an easy way of
replying"...  unless you mean in terms of "the replies are easier to write
if the other text is right there" [even as my comments to your statement
is both easier and clearer [IMO] when one can actually _see_ the statement
to which I'm responding...

> To me, it seems hardly ever to be necessary. It is never done in snail-mail
> letters (Obviously!). But in snail mail there is no difficlty in referrring
> briefly in one's letter to previous correspondence and the point being
> discussed. Why do people not do this in E-mail? It's not difficult and it
> would save megabytes of space! And, into the bargain, messages would be
> clearer and more to the point.
>
> The reason, as I have suggested, is becouse it has become a way of doing
> things, regardless of whether it is the best way....

No, you've missed the point, in part.  It *is* possible to make every
email message be a self-contained essay or exposition, but the fact it
that as a rule that would make them *longer*, not -shorter-.  There are
two main differences between email and SnailMail [at least for the context
of this discussion:

1) There aren't third-parties in SnailMail.  It is one thing if I were
sending this email message to *you*.  You might even remember that you had
commented on quoting-styles and precisely what aspects of your comments I
was elaborating or taking issue with... but not for the 500 other folk.
If they even remember your message [which would have been one of 80 on
origami-l that day], would they remember it clearly enough to understand
the context of my remarks?  How much excess-verbiage ought I include to
"remind" third parties about what you [and your antecedents in longer
threads] about what we were talking about, what had been previously said,
and what portion of it I'm addressing.  Another problem, which we observed
a *LOT* back in the early days of Email, is that huge misunderstandings
and "electronic fights" would break out and a nontrivial cause was that
the respondent would paraphrase the original comments and then reply to
that paraphrase... but of course, it generally came out slanted in the way
that the respondent chose and it was no longer a private matter any more:
the respondent had just, basically, misrepresented the original author in
front of an audience of several hundred.  Tempers would flare, more
misrepresentations in subsequent mailings, all of the third-parties hardly
know what is happening [since they don't really care enough to *really*
remember the combatants maililngs from one go-round to the next]...  And
so the "etiquette" convention arose to include the *actual*words* of the
person to whom your responding.

2) Very few correspondents are able to keep track snail-mail
correspondence with hundreds of people simultaneously.  email has grown
to do precisely that for many of us, though, and so it is a courtesy to
remind of of what I was talking about.  and yes, it is possible to do
that implicitly in the text, but it is really much easier and to the
point simply to include my own comments as you further the conversation.
You may believe that that has cheapened communication... that people no
longer take the care when editing an email that they used to when writing
a letter, and perhaps that's true, but the fact is that some of us get
hundreds of messages a day, and even for one-to-one correspondence it is
a very nice courtesy to include the reason wherefore you're writing.
Here, too, you can with some effort implicitly provide the question in
the answer, but it is a lot easier and more efficient for both parties
just to *include*the*question* and be done with it.  And, indeed, I think
that the situation is quite the opposite: if it were as easy to include
"quotations" in ones written correspondence as it is in email, that would
have evolved as the proper-standard for letters long ago, precisely
because it is so clear, unambiguous, and simple.  Contrast what you can
do so easily and effectively in email with the rather cumbersome
convention for business [and legal] letters that begin: "In your
correspondence of 22 October you inquired about the availability of ...."
 --- how much better such would be [and, indeed, they *are* today when
that sort of business is transacted via email!] to simply have included
my inquiry... making it totally clear that the question you answer is
_precisely_ the one I asked.

    [I note that that was always considered a critical skill for
    speakers taking questions from an audience [and one not well done
    by many!], which is to make sure that you've included the
    question sufficiently in the answer so that everyone [even those
    that couldn't hear the question being presented] will know what
    you're talking about.  But as I think about it, I realize that
    here, too, there is both snail-mail and email style: there are
    some speakers who manage snail-mail style and make their
    paragraph-shaped responses implicitly include the question so
    neatly that there is no confusion.  And there are other speakers
    [including me :-)] who just do it "email style" and begin their
    answer with "The gentleman has asked ...."

> Even E-mail can be courteous, clearly written and even elegant. I hope i'm
> not a voice crying in the wilderness.

It can and you're not, but the fact is that it is quite a different medium
from those that went before and so is best served by different skills and
techniques.  In earlier times, as we were fumbling around with the
beginnings of email, we discovered that it was a most remarkable
amalgam of a personal letter, a telephone call, and a
letter-to-the-editor, and it was the case then as it is now, that the
skills to use the new medium effectively are rather different from those
needed for writing in other forums --- just as the skills for writing
personal correspondence are different from those of writing business
correspondence which are different from those of writing articles for mass
media which are different from those of writing for speeches...

This is not to excuse poorly written [or overly quoted] email, only to
emphasize that the standards and conventions really have evolved for
reasons beyond just the mere laziness of the authors.

[I apologize for rambling on at such length over a matter like this... I
have to go down and clean out the barn this morning and I'm practicing
serious-avoidance! :-)]

  /Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
mailto:bernie@fantasyfarm.com     Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 12:07:10 -0400 (AST)
From: Kristine Tomlinson <ktomlinson@platinum.com>
Subject: Business Card folding in Japan (correction)

Hi Joseph and others,

Woops, I was in such a hurry trying to type information in between
tasks, that I entered incorrect information.  My sincere apologies!
face up not face down.  Therefore as Joseph also said it follows that
Japanese would be the language present face up.  My coworker didn't
catch this either.  I'm blushing at my error.

I think the reason I was associating red as auspicious in Japan was
because I made an (inaccurate?) assumption that Japanese color
symbolism was based on Chinese color symbolism.   I have no real
knowledge of this area, but recently got an English copy of the 19th
century Japanese "Book of Design", and I just got a library copy of Isao
Honda's "Noshi".  The color and pattern symbolism in both reminded me
of Chinese and Buddhist symbolism.   In some cases, it was taken
directly from those sources.  Both books have been useful to educate
me about the importance of paper color choice as well as paper pattern
choice.  But there's obviously so much more to learn!

By the way, I wrote up a description of the origami references in the
design book which I will post when I get a chance.

Thanks for your patience; sorry for the errors.

Kristine
ktomlinson@platinum.com
Waltham, MA, USA





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 13:26:42 -0400 (AST)
From: Pat Slider <slider@stonecutter.com>
Subject: Re: Creasing tools...

Tom Hull> Douggie write,

=What I am looking for is a head start on the search to find a tool to
=precrease with.  I have a 1/16" burnishing tool, but even that size is a bit
=bulky.

TH> The person you're refering to is Paulo Barreto of Holland.  As far as
TH> I know, he uses a fine-tipped metal point to make his precreases.  Chris
TH> Palmer once gave me one of these things, and it works very well!  You
TH> can literally "draw" your creases in the paper, provided the paper
TH> isn't too thick.  I'm not sure where you would find such a thing.
TH> Perhaps an art supply or hardward store.  Try asking for super-fine metal
TH> awls.

>This could be an engraving tool (or, an engraving tool could possibly be used
>as well); the kind I have looks like a mechanical pencil but ends instead in
>a metal point.  While I haven't used it for origami -- you'd need to be
>careful not to press too deeply and actually cut the paper -- it works well
>for scribing on thick foil-covered paper for that tone-on-tone lettering look.

I myself would recommend an embossing stylus for this. It is the size and
weight of a pen or pencil with a metal ROUNDED point on each end. (The two
ends have different size balled tips.) This tool is specifically designed to
impress paper and not tear it.

I've used it to help me put in a precrease. I also find it helpful sometimes
to tuck in nasty little sink folds and open up small flaps for squashing;
that is, when my fingers seem too big and awkward to manipulate a small
detail and tweezers are likely to poke a hole in the paper.

You can get these styli for just a few dollars in craft shops  (i.e.
Michaels or Ben Franklin or ???) these days as well as the rubber stamp
shops. (The latter crowd having taking up embossing.) In the craft shops,
you will often find them stocked with the tools for working polymer clay as
they are quite popular for fine detailing in that craft as well.

For ironing in creases I like to use a stone carbuchon by the way
:->....Never liked the idea of a "folding bone". A stone round or oval fits
nicely in my palm, and I don't have to keep picking it up and putting it
down while I fold. And it is easy (and enjoyable) to always have one or two
in my pocket.

These rounds/ovals are sold for jewelry-makers, and if you like rocks, it is
fun to have a selection. You have to experiment some to find a good edge
though. The carbuchons that are shaped like a checker or backgammon piece
seem to work best, but some of the "donuts" that are sold to wear with silk
cord work well too. (I keep thinking that when I know my favorite carbuchon
"shape", I'll special order some stones from a rock carver. Maybe invest in
some really nice samples of malachite or jade or ????)

pat slider
slider@stonecutter.com





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 16:03:00 -0400 (AST)
From: jfryer@lib.ursinus.edu
Subject: folding sheets

        I'm still behind in reading the origami digests, and apologize if
someone has already responded to this topic.  Several people talked about not
knowing how to fold fitted bedsheets.  This is how my mother taught me.
        Place your left and right index fingers into adjacent corners of the
sheet (it will look like little tents on your fingers, and the rest of the
sheet will hang between your hands).  Then place the tips of your index fingers
together and turn one of the corners inside-out over the other.  Now do this in
the other direction, so you have all four corners nested inside one another.
To finish, just fold the top flaps down and the side flaps over; fold the piece
in half and it's ready for the linen closet.
        I never thought about the origami aspects of it--sorry I haven't used
the "origamically correct" terms here  ;-)
                                 Judith
                                 jfryer@lib.ursinus.edu





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 17:14:10 -0400 (AST)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: acrobat 3

FYI:
We just got a copy of Adobe Pagemaker for Windows/PC,
haven't loaded it up yet, but apparently it contains
the "Distiller" program that makes PDF files from
Postscript print files (PS files). List or regular
discount retail for Pagemaker is pretty steep, but
I understand that college bookstore student/faculty
prices are about $150.

--valerie





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 17:30:20 -0400 (AST)
From: jdharris@post.cis.smu.edu (Jerry D. Harris)
Subject: Re: folding sheets

>        Place your left and right index fingers into adjacent corners of the
>sheet (it will look like little tents on your fingers, and the rest of the
>sheet will hang between your hands).  Then place the tips of your index fingers
>together and turn one of the corners inside-out over the other.  Now do this in
>the other direction, so you have all four corners nested inside one another.
>To finish, just fold the top flaps down and the side flaps over; fold the piece
>in half and it's ready for the linen closet.

        This is precisely the way I was taught, too...but for some peculiar
reason, it never comes out nicely.  (I was one of the ones who said I was
clueless on how to fold them.)  I guess I just have some sort of mental
block against folding things without nice, sharp, 90-degree angle corners!
;-D  But...I'll keep trying.  If I ever do it successfully without my
fiancee's help, I'll let everyone know!

Jerry D. Harris                       (214) 768-2750
Dept. of Geological Sciences          FAX:  768-2701
Southern Methodist University
Box 750395                            jdharris@post.smu.edu
Dallas  TX  75275-0395                (Compuserve:  102354,2222)

                                              .--       ,
                                         ____/_  )_----'_\__
                                 ____----____/ / _--^-_   _ \_
                         ____----_o _----     ( (      ) ( \  \
                       _-_-- \ _/  -          ) '      / )  )  \
"Evolution: It's      _-_/   / /   /          /  '     /_/   /   \
Not For Every-       //   __/ /_) (          / \  \   / /   (_-C  \
Body!"              /(__--    /    '-_     /    \ \  / /    )  (\_)
                   /    o   (        '----'  __/  \_/ (____/   \
  -- Michael       /.. ../   .  .   ..  . .  -<_       ___/   _- \
     Feldman       \_____\.: . :.. _________-----_      -- __---_ \
                    VVVVV---------/VVVVVVVVV      \______--    /  \
                         VVVVVVVVV                   \_/  ___  '^-'___
                                           _________------   --='== . \
                     AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA--- .      o          -o---'  /





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 19:28:29 -0400 (AST)
From: limblab@mailhost.tcs.tulane.edu (Valerie Ngo-Muller)
Subject: Want to be back in the list!!!

Hi,

I think I was postponed, so I sent the message
 set origami-l mail ack
as several of you told me to do (thanks to all of you!), but it seems that
I am still not back!
What should I do?

Valerie Ngo-Muller, Ph. D.
Dept. of Cell and Molecular Biology
Tulane University
2000 Percival Stern Hall
New Orleans, LA 70118-5698   USA

Ph. (504) 862-3163
Fax (504) 865-6785





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 20:00:54 -0400 (AST)
From: Kristine Tomlinson <ktomlinson@platinum.com>
Subject: 8-Business Card Cube Instructions

Hi,

A few of you wrote me privately saying you had trouble with step 3 of
my 6 March 1997 posting describing a business card cube.  The wording
was a bit misleading (gee, you'll never guess what I do for a living!:-).

Here's another try in case any of you were having trouble but were
feeling too shy (or frustrated) to ask :-).

Kristine

1. Center one business card on top of another at a 90-degree angle. The
blank sides should be together with the printed sides facing out.

2. Bend the overlapping ends of the top card down over the bottom card,
and the overlapping ends of the bottom card up over the top card.  When
you separate them, you should have created a square in the center of
each card and they should have two rectangular tabs at long sides.  The
cards should look identical.   Make 8 of these.

3. Lay one card on top of the other at a 90-degree angle so that all the
flaps point up.  One flap per side. This is the cube base.

4. Take four cards and rebend the tabs back away from the printing at a
45-degree angle.  These are the cube sides.

5. Slip each cube side card onto a tab in the base.  The printing should be
facing out -- in the same position as when you read the card; the tabs
facing in toward the center of the cube.  When done, the top view looks
like a Maltese cross -- a square cross with two 45-degree slits at each
corner.

6.  Repeat step 3 to make the top of the cube.

7. Slip the top over the four sides in the same manner as step 5.

This completes the cube.  It's pretty sturdy due to the double-card locking
construction.





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 20:13:25 -0400 (AST)
From: Kristine Tomlinson <ktomlinson@platinum.com>
Subject: 1890s Japanese Fashion, Origami Models and Chiyogami Patterns

Circa 1890s Japanese Fashion, Origami Models, and Chiyogami Patterns

Recently I picked up a book some of you may be familiar with: "The Book
of Japanese Design" [Banshoku Shin Hinagat Bijutsu Ojo] by Kyusaburo
Kaiyama, translated by Sylvia Price Mueller, NY: Crown Publishers, Inc.,
(c1969).
It was intended to be used by designers of kimonos, fabrics, and crests
(mon-kiri).  In the process, it documents the use of origami in fabric and
holiday celebrations, and records and explains many patterns found
today on chiyogami. It also shows kirigami in the form of the crest
patterns.  Unfortunately, the original publication date is not given, and the
three libraries I asked couldn't date it.  The Boston (MA, USA) Public
Library Humanities Department located an 1891 Kyoto imprint by the
same author, and that date is consistent with a date (1893) mentioned in
the translator's commentary.  Historical caution: while the designs
illustrated are old, the commentary is from the 1960s; it's not clear to me
how much was actual translation and how much is modern commentary.

One of the interesting things about this book is that not only does it show
origami used as a fabric pattern, but that many of the chiyogami paper
patterns we have today are actually fabric designs literally translated
to paper.  This brings to mind the Girl's Day Hina dolls -- one of which is
illustrated.  If one of the popular uses paper was put to was to create
elaborately costumed paper dolls, it makes sense that paper would
imitate fabric.  Some patterns, like haiku imagery, are associated with
specific seasons.  For example, cherry blossoms with spring and maple
leaves with autumn.  This makes sense, but I never thought about it
before seeing this book.  The question is will I now take these details into
account in future folding projects?  Other patterns, I was pleased to
read, had Buddhist and Shinto meaning.  Interestingly, there is some
similarity with patterns and meanings in this book and Isao Honda's
"Noshi".  Perhaps more on those connections later.

Another idea this book suggested is that the origami crane is such a
strong symbol that it can be substituted for the real thing.  In other
words, a paper crane appears alongside realistically illustrated pine
cones (which in turn, may be a symbol for the whole tree :-).  Here are
the origami-specific references:

Fabric Patterns:

Matsu Ni Tsuru (Pines and Cranes) -- "This is another traditional
combination of motifs used for joyous occasions. Both the pine and
crane symbolize longevity.  The crane in this instance is made out of
folded paper."  (p. 40-41)

Ori Tsuru Kukuri Saru (Folded Paper Crane and Tied Monkey) -- "These
are children's playthings. The monkey is a stuffed toy similar to the
American Teddy bear."  The cranes are in different poses, the monkey
isn't. (p.42-43)

Patterns from the Arabesque design section:

Shina No Kodomo (Chinese Children at Play) -- the child in the center
holds a pinwheel on a stick. (p.54-55).

Kami-Ningyo To Hagoita (Paper Doll and Battledore) -- this may not be a
pattern, it is an illustration above quilting designs.

Noshi is also illustrated in this quilting section "Red and White folded
paper always placed on the outer wrapping of a gift."

Kimono Design:

Orizuru (Folded Paper Cranes) cranes are shown with unfolded paper.
"Orizuru is the commonest form of origami (paper folding).  Originally
offered to shrines and temples for decoration, they were later proffered
as prayers. The superstitious still believe that if one thousand paper
cranes are strung on a series of threads and given to one who is ill, he
will recover."

Mon-Kiri:

There is also a large section on 2-, 3- ,4-, and 5-fold crest papercutting.
The introduction says origami is so popular in the US that "many
American stores also carry these papers in stock."

Hope you found something of interest here.  I certainly did.

Kristine
ktomlinson@platinum.com
Waltham, MA, USA





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 20:24:06 -0400 (AST)
From: Douglas Zander <dzander@solaria.sol.net>
Subject: Re: Want to be back in the list!!!

Try to unsubscribe and then as soon as you get confirmation of your
unsubscribtion, then resubscribe  Good Luck





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 22:50:58 -0400 (AST)
From: "James M. Sakoda" <James_Sakoda@brown.edu>
Subject: Re: acrobat 3

>FYI:
>We just got a copy of Adobe Pagemaker for Windows/PC,
>haven't loaded it up yet, but apparently it contains
>the "Distiller" program that makes PDF files from
>Postscript print files (PS files). List or regular
>discount retail for Pagemaker is pretty steep, but
>I understand that college bookstore student/faculty
>prices are about $150.
>
>--valerie

I had heard that Pagemaker was capable of outputting pdf files, which would
make it similar to Freehand 7.  As I have reported before Freehand's pdf's
are about twice as large as the one produced by Distiller.  Could you check
to see if Pagemaker actually has Distiller and whether the pdf that is
output is just as smal as the one one produced by using Distiller. If it is
then getting Pagemaker to create diagrams would eliminate the need to get
the Distiller separately by buying Acrobat 3, which costs about $200.
James M. Sakoda





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 23:37:30 -0400 (AST)
From: Ronnie White <ronew@mindspring.com>
Subject: New Central Georgia Group

I just moved to the central Georgia area, and I'm looking at forming a local
origami group. If you live in the Macon, Warner Robins or central Georgia
area, and are interested in the formation of a local origami group please
e-mail me at:
ronew@mindspring.com  or call me at 912-953-7845. Looking forward to hearing
from you.
Ron White
ronew@mindspring.com





Date: Fri, 07 Mar 1997 23:44:01 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: acrobat 3

On Fri, 7 Mar 1997, James M. Sakoda wrote:

=I had heard that Pagemaker was capable of outputting pdf files, which would
=make it similar to Freehand 7.  As I have reported before Freehand's pdf's
=are about twice as large as the one produced by Distiller.  Could you check
=to see if Pagemaker actually has Distiller and whether the pdf that is
=output is just as smal as the one one produced by using Distiller. If it is
=then getting Pagemaker to create diagrams would eliminate the need to get
=the Distiller separately by buying Acrobat 3, which costs about $200.

Pagemaker is a page layout program, not a drawing program. While it does have
some drawing capabilities, I would not consider it replacement for a good
Postscript drawing program.

 Joseph Wu - origami@planet.datt.co.jp - http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami
> It's your privilege as an artist to inflict the pain of creativity on
yourself. We can teach you how WE paint, but we can't teach you how YOU
paint. There's More Than One Way To Do It..
> Have the appropriate amount of fun.    --Wall, Christiansen, Schwartz





Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 12:31:53 -0400 (AST)
From: Steve Theil <theil@htonline.com>
Subject: Re: Quoting (NO)

I totally agree with David Lister's clear and elegant post (March 7) about
the overuse of quoted material on mailing lists.

He said, in part: (quote) The facility of quoting from a previous
communication is a very valuable tool in E-mail and it has many uses.
However, too many people have seen it just as an easy way of replying to
letters and it has become an established habit, if not an accepted
convention of E-mail to do it. (end quote)

I think this is true. While quoting previous posts is valid and useful in
many contexts, some people (not those on the Origami-L list!) seem to use
it simply as a convention.

But I think there are reasons, other than laziness, that cause this
phenomenon. Many people do not know how (or are unable, apparently) to turn
off their "Include message in reply" button; or they don't know that they
can delete all or part of that message once it has appeared in the outgoing
reply. Also I think some folks, as David implied, simply assume that
copying previous posts is the-thing-to-do without thinking about why it may
be useful or important to do it.

As I have said before, the Origami-L list is superior in every regard to
every other list I've participated in. Y'all haven't lived until you pick
up a digested list that is full of complete previous digests because people
have REPLYed to a digested post and inadvertently copied the entire thing.
Oops!

Linda Theil
theil@htonline.com





Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 16:57:39 -0400 (AST)
From: preaux <preaux@univ-lyon1.fr>
Subject: Museum of origami

Today i've gone to a museum
He's called the "Musee de la miniature"
And I saw the most little origami...
An 1 millimetre Elephant caring by a match

But there was much more ... Animals that look saw real that I can't
believe they have been made with only one sheet..
But they're said to be..

It is also said that their creator is famous. He calls Gerard Ty
Does anyone know him?

This day gave me the idea of a museum of Origami, does it exist?
would it be a good idea?

Cyrille Preaux





Date: Sat, 08 Mar 1997 20:43:42 -0400 (AST)
From: Sheldon Ackerman <ackerman@dorsai.dorsai.org>
Subject: Re: Museum of origami

>
> But there was much more ... Animals that look saw real that I can't
> believe they have been made with only one sheet..
> But they're said to be..

I don't know where you live but if you can make it to the next origami
convention you'll see lots of what you describe. I was almost floored when I
saw Joseph's Wu chessboard. By that I mean John Montroll's chess board that
Joseph had on display (two years ago, I think). I had no problem completing
that chess board either. But mine was somewhat bigger than Joseph's. His was
the size of a cufflink. I also recall some insect that was quite visible
when viewed through a magnifying glass.

>
> It is also said that their creator is famous. He calls Gerard Ty
> Does anyone know him?

Don't know what you  mean by famous, but there are many famous people on
this list :-)

--
Sheldon Ackerman.......http://www.dorsai.org/~ackerman/
ackerman@dorsai.dorsai.org
sheldon_ackerman@fc1.nycenet.edu
