




Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:49:38 -0100
From: reeds@openix.com (Reeds family)
Subject: David Small's children's book PAPER JOHN

While sorting my daughter's outgrown books, I came across one of my
favorites, David Small's children's book,  PAPER JOHN (Farrar Straus &
Giroux, NY 1987, pb 1989  ISBN 0-374-45725-5; Toronto: Collins PUblishers)
and retrieved it for my origami shelves.

Got me wondering about about the author/illustrator's origami interests,
original models. The book is full of delightful drawings of origami models
and other papercraft stuff.   (Paper John comes to a seaside village, makes
a living selling paper flowers he folds  and befriends all the kids by
making boats. He lives in a paper house, sleeps on a paper 4-poster bed,
and outsmarts the devil with his folding. ) If anyone on this list knows
David Small, please pass along my thanks for many happy bedtime readings.
It's a wonderful book for anyone, and a must for any folder who ever deals
with little kids.

Karen
reeds@openix.com





Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 17:49:35 -0100
From: reeds@openix.com (Reeds family)
Subject: Re: What would you do? Another thought

>>Hi all,
>>
>>Here's the scenario, in a casual conversation you mention your skills in
>>origami to a person who works in promotions. Later your contacted and asked
>>if you could come up with an original design ( a clown ) from a place mat
>>for a promotional activity in a restaurant chain. It's a big maybe, there
>>are no promises.
>>
>>The company your dealing with does promotions and merchandizing in shopping
>>centres and the like. They want you to develop a _product_ they can sell to
>>someone else and re-use for future customers. Your product is a fold.
>>
>>How would you negotiate a deal like that.
>>
>>What would you do?
>>
>>Cheers,
>>
>>Steven Casey
>>Melbourne Australia
>>scasey@enternet.com.au
>
>Dear Steven
>Drawing on experience with US book publishing subsidiary rights:  I'd try
>to insist on fee up front plus a royalty on each use of your fold (x
>pennies/100 placemats printed; more for reprints/revisions). Try to make it
>a non-exclusive right --ie so you too can market he same fold elsewhere (or
>exclusive to the company for sales in your country/non-exclusive outside
>the country).   Insist that you be credited on each piece of paper using
>your fold and that you get copies of each use of your fold.
>Good luck!
>Karen
>reeds@openix.com

One more thought--something like this is likely to be used in TV promotions
of the product--a kid folding the placemat in glee. Be sure to get
payment/royalty for TV use of your fold (though credit seems unlikely).
Karen





Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:42:30 +0000
From: Penny Groom <penny@sector.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Brady Winkleman or Wendy Blair

I am trying to get in touch with Brady Winkleman who lives in
Olathe,Kansas or his sister Wendy Blair.

If anyone knows an e-mail address for either I would be very grateful.

Penny
------------------------------------------
Penny Groom                :(  Membership Secretary
                           :)  British Origami Society
penny@sector.demon.co.uk
Stairwell's homepage.
http://www.sector.demon.co.uk/index.htm





Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 21:58:18 -0500
From: Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: What would you do?

At 05:33 AM 1/19/97 -0400, Steven Casey <scasey@enternet.com.au> wrote:

>Here's the scenario, in a casual conversation you mention your skills in
>origami to a person who works in promotions. Later your contacted and asked
>if you could come up with an original design ( a clown ) from a place mat
>for a promotional activity in a restaurant chain. It's a big maybe, there
>are no promises.
>
>The company your dealing with does promotions and merchandizing in shopping
>centres and the like. They want you to develop a _product_ they can sell to
>someone else and re-use for future customers. Your product is a fold.

I have had some simmilar experiences, and there really is no obvious amount
to what your talents are worth. My first consideration is how much time I
will have to invest in this. This might not affect the cost (your promoters
probably have no idea how long it takes to develop a model), but it will
affect your interest.

This can only be determined by asking focused questions to determine what
is needed. There is a good chance you can steer your customer in the right
direction. It is possible your customer is really not looking for
origami,but just wants a folded look, or perhaps a product that is easy to
manufacture. In your case, who will be be doing the folding? If you are
selling your design to be reproduced by others, then your cost is strictly
in the efforts towards developing the design. If you are just going to sell
something you folded, I would find out how many are needed, and then charge
for each piece.

Here is my experience from a recent incedent:
I was contacted to produce a model of a fortune cookie for a book about
fortune cookies (through a referal). After asking about the project, it was
quickly determined a simple model was needed, that would be easy to diagram
(for the diagramms would be going into the book. When I started to discuss
money, they said they would have to get back to me to determine the budget.
As it tuned out, I was able to design the model in about ten minutes, and
make rough diagramms in five minutes. This is about to turn into a bad
example, as I was in a very generous mood at that time. When they got back
to me, and were not very prepared to pay much, I said I would supply them
the diagramms for free, provided contact information for OrigamiUSA was
shown prominently.

What could I have realisticlly have asked for? Normally, I would charge by
the hour. For this sort of work, I would think of myself as an architect,
charging an hourly rate. I think $50/hr is more than fair (I do not know
what the Austrailian equivalent is) As an origamist, the advantage is ours
as there are so few of us. Even though I worked far less than an hour, I
could have lied, and charged for two, but I did not like the model that
much. I was also certain to send very unusable diagramms (from a publishing
perspective).

The story does not end here however. The book packager called me back
asking for me to fold ten fortune cookies, so that they could send them to
prospective publishers. I told them I would be unwilling to do this for
free, but they had my permission to fold the model themselves. They said
they really wanted a well folded model. I said that I tend to charge a few
hundred per model, but since these take less time to fold than my other
works, I would be willing to charge much less. After some discussion, a
contract was drawn up. I was to be paid $500 for the 10 cookies, and I
would also get 1% of the books profits for the use of my model. The
contract also had a clause to keep my on retainer for diagramming
assistance (without actually diagramming). One other note; the contract
also mentioned interest of doing a book of models by myself. We shall see...

I realize this tale was rambling in nature, but I hope it gives a better
feel as to thye sort of negotiations that can occur. When my cookies were
received, I should say they were very pleased, and felt their money was
well spent. If there is a moral to the story, it is if youthink you are
charging too much, you are probably wrong. Good luck with your negotiations.

Marc





Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 23:49:33 +1100 (EST)
From: Steven Casey <scasey@enternet.com.au>
Subject: Re:What would you do?

A big thank you to the list for the suggestions on how to deal with
commissions.  Particularly with selling skills in origami design, as apart
from actual folded models.

I have made the following proposal to the person I'm dealing with.

Origami Design by Steven Casey

Specification: Design a simple folding sequence for making a clown outline
from A4 proportions. The model is to be embellished with printed clown
features.

What I require:
Payment of a development fee to be charged at an hourly rate.

Payment at an hourly rate for future revisions.

Use of the design will be non-exclusive.

Use of the design will be for the duration of the promotion.

The right to publish the model to be retained by the creator/designer

A credit to be printed along with every occurrence of the folding instruction.

Payment of a royalty for use of the model in television or cinema advertising.

A sample of the finished product.

Needless to say I received a negative response on some of these proposals.
For instance if the model was being used in a restaurant they would be
reluctant to acknowledge the designer of the concept, from the restaurant's
point of view these things should remain seamless.

Also the promotional company would be reluctant to pay a royalty. They're
paying for the development of a fold to their specifications, and are
prepared to pay a good rate for the time involved. They want me to estimate
how many hours are involved first.

Also if their paying for a design they want it to be exclusive. At this
point the person I'm dealing with is going to discuss the details with his
colleagues and come back with a proposal in writing. If I feel at all uneasy
I'll  forget the whole thing.

I'll keep you posted...

cheers,

Steven Casey
scasey@enternet.com.au





Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:54:20 -0500 (EST)
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re: Wht woud yu do.  Ask about budget

Florence Tempko once gave me a good hint.  Ask them what there budget is
first and then negotioate from there.  You might be very surprized at what
they were planning to offer.  This has worked many times for me in various
situations.
Dorigami





Date: Tue, 21 Jan 1997 13:54:51 -0500 (EST)
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Got Started letters

Thank you for your great response on "How you got started letters"  I am
saving them and will soon compile them for you.  But do continue sending them
if you haven't already.  The more the merrier.  Knowing you origami ellers a
little makes this all so much more fun.  Your friendly origamist, Dorigami.





Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 07:52:15 -0400 (AST)
From: ec49@cornell.edu
Subject: Cranes

Greetings, everyone. I am new to this mailing list and to the outside
world of origami.

I used to make all kinds of origami objects until about two years ago,
when I created something very interesting. Let me describe what I
exclusively fold now: I make a square from a regular 8.5 by 11 inch of
white paper, cut it in such a way so as to make a long loop, then make
more cuts in the loop and fold cranes from each section of paper.

I have made these chains (all from the same size sheet of paper) with
from 4 to 256 cranes, all connected and unbroken. It takes about 4 hours
to fold my standard 64 cranes, and it took about 23 to fold 256. When
fully stretched out into a circle, the chain of 256 is at least 2.5 feet
in diameter. I have only one of each size in my possession, as I give
away most that I make. I don't make them very often, for the repetition
and precise folds are stressful to my fingers and arms.

I would appreciate some answers to several questions, and here they are:

1) Does anyone else do this? 2) What is this called, if it has a name?
and 3) What do other origami folders think of this?

Erwin Chan
ec49@cornell.edu





Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:09:50 -0400 (AST)
From: Jeannine Mosely <j9@concentra.com>
Subject: continued fractions for paper folders

I got this message from another list I subscribe to.  I thought some
of you might enjoy it.  (Pay no attention to the putative mnemonic.)

There's something screwy here with the continued fraction for
10.99/8.5.  The "..." clearly can't imply that the fraction continues
like this forever, or it would be the same as 2 - (sqrt 2)/2, which is
impossible, as the former is rational and the latter is not.

        -- Jeannine Mosely
From: <rwg@SWEATHOUSE.macsyma.com>
Date: Mon, 20 Jan 1997 05:56-0500
Subject: 8.5 by 11

Exercise:  Fold off the largest possible square (8.5 x 8.5) from
a sheet of standard business paper.  Repeat the process for the
three 2.5 by 2.5 squares in the remaining 2.5 by 8.5 strip,
leaving a 2.5 by 1 inch strip.  Continue until reaching the .5"
gcd(8.5,11).  If you're a better paper folder than me, you have
computed the continued fraction

     11           1
    --- = 1 + ---------.
    8.5             1
              3 + -----
                      1
                  2 + -
                      2

For the benefit of our European members, I'll recount that the
motivation for this apparently odd proportion is merely mnemonic:
it helps us to remember the ratio of miles/hour to feet/second =
22/15 = the aspect ratio of a business letter minus a 1" margin
down a long side.-)

I will admit, there are those who argue that 11/8.5 is only an
approximation to the true ratio of

       sqrt(2)                       1
   2 - ------- = 1 + ---------------------------------
          2                            1
                     3 + -----------------------------
                                         1
                         2 + -------------------------
                                           1
                             2 + ---------------------
                                             1
                                 2 + -----------------
                                               1
                                     2 + -------------
                                                 1
                                         2 + ---------
                                                   1
                                             2 + -----
                                                 . . .

I.e., 8.5 by 10.98959, a part-per-thousand shortening.  This is of
great importance whenever we need to fold paper octagons, e.g., for
emergency STOP signs.  When folded against the 8.5" square, the
corners of the remaining strip coincide with two of the octagonal
vertices, indicating exactly how much corner to lop off the square.

Also note that:

       10.99                         1
       -----   = 1 + ---------------------------------
        8.5                            1
                     3 + -----------------------------
                                         1
                         2 + -------------------------
                                           1
                             2 + ---------------------
                                             1
                                 2 + -----------------
                                               1
                                     2 + -------------
                                             ...

Compare with Simon Plouffe's reminder that the French A4 format is

                                     1
     sqrt(2)   = 1 + ---------------------------------





Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 15:25:30 -0400 (AST)
From: Mark <mark@gilchrist.demon.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Kittyhawk site addendum

>In case anyone else is going through the process of getting the FutureSplash
>plug-in to look at the "paper creation" at the kittyhawk site. FutureWave
>has just been bought out by Macromedia....so Netscape says that you have to
>go to the macromedia site:
>
>http://www.macromedia.com/support/downloads/index.html
>
>to get the plug-in. But I don't see it there so....Let me know if you know
>of another place to download this?
>

I tried several times to get the plug-in from www.futurewave.com.  It is
available as a .sit file for the Mac and as .hqx (79 and 239K
respectively).  However the download froze at 38% after 5 minutes(!) with a
33.6 modem!!!!!  You start to wonder if it is really worth it, don't you!

--
Mark

Currently "folding the Universe"...
..and stuck with the tricky squash fold by Ursa Major!





Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:05:41 -0400 (AST)
From: Mark <mark@gilchrist.demon.co.UK>
Subject: Re: wwWWWWWW

snip
>>
>>  _ _ _ _ _ _ WWWWWW
>>

snip

>      WW
>     M
>_ _ _ _ _ _ _ WWWWWW
>

Sorry.  I'm a bit lost....I've got to the ________ (step one).  What comes next?

--
Mark

The only snips allowed are those in messages!





Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 16:11:14 -0400 (AST)
From: "P.F.C. Blondel" <blondel@sara.nl>
Subject: new born folder !

Hi all,

To all who know Marrigje Barnard; at 19:14 local time
she has given birth to a baby boy of about 4.25 kg.
His name is Joshua David and all is well.

For those of you who do not have the BOS address book
and still want to congratulate her, this is the address:

  Marrigje Barnard
  Warmoesstraat 4
  Nl-1791-CR Den Burgh
  The Netherlands

bye
    Peter Blondel





Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:06:24 -0400 (AST)
From: Zachary Brown <zbrown@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
Subject: Getting the largest perfect pentagon from a square

Here is a challenge: using only origami techniques, locate the five
vertices of the largest possible pentagon on a square.

Yoshizawa gives a method in his books, but it is not the largest, and it's
not a perfect pentagon. Various puzzle books show how to get a perfect
pentagon, but it's not the largest. (I'll post these if people want them)

Any takers? I've been wondering about this for a long time.

Zack





Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 19:16:25 -0400 (AST)
From: PenneyA@aol.com
Subject: Re: How you got started in Origami

I got started in Origami when I was 8 years old.  My older sister bought me a
beginner book that had the models actually folded on each page so they could
be taken apart.  I loved that book soooo much.  I am now almost 44 years and
I stll have that book.  The title of the book is called "Happy Origami"
 Swallow Book. The author is Tatsuo Miyawaki copywrite 1960.  Published by
the Japanese Publications Trading Company in Rutlant, Vt.  I would guess they
have long since disappeared since we are talking 37 years ago.  Anyway,  I
lost interest for a few years and then picked it up again in Junior High.
 Folded for a few years, lost interest and didn't pick it up again probably
for a good 10 years or so.  I work on an assembly line.  One day while we had
model change over and the line was very slow, I started to fold stuff and
renewed my interest.  Put it off again, and the past few years I have really
gotten into it because of the very cool complex folds available like Lang's
ant.
                               THE END!!!
                                                Penney





Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 20:37:52 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Senbazuru Orikata (was Re: Cranes)

On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, Jean Villemaire wrote:

="The democratization of Origami came only in the Tokugawa period, from
=1603 to 1867, the great efflorescence of Japanese art and culture often
=likened to the Elizabethan Age in England.  The Tokugawa period saw the
=emergence of the bird base, documented in the oldest surviving publication on
=origami, the Senbazuru Orikata ('How to Fold One Thousand Cranes') of 1797.
=(...)

This is a common error in the origami community (outside of Japan). The proper
translation of Senbazuru Orikata (at least, a better translation) would be
"Thousand Crane Fold(ed) Figures". The problem is the word, "kata". There are
two Chinese characters that are being confused here (they both can be
pronounced "kata", and both can be attached to "ori-"). The commonly used
"kata" of modern Japanese does indeed translate to "a way of..." or "how to
do...". However, in more archaic Japanese, there is another "kata" (the one
used in Senbazuru Orikata) which means "figure" or "shape". It survives today
in the modern word, "katachi" (shape).

And, for the record, Jean, I'm not picking on you this time. This is a common
mistake. 8)

          Joseph Wu           Faith: When you have come to the end of all the
  origami@planet.datt.co.jp   light that you know and need to step into the
 Webmaster, the Origami Page  darkness of the unknown, Faith is knowing that
http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami one of two things will happen: either there will
 Webmaster, DATT Japan Inc.   be something solid to stand on or you will be
    http://www.datt.co.jp     taught how to fly.                --Anonymous





Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:43:07 -0400 (AST)
From: Jean Villemaire <boyer@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: wwWWWWWW

Mark wrote:
>
> snip
> >>
> >>  _ _ _ _ _ _ WWWWWW
> >>
>
> snip
>
> >      WW
> >     M
> >_ _ _ _ _ _ _ WWWWWW
> >
>
> Sorry.  I'm a bit lost....I've got to the ________ (step one).  What comes
     next?
>
> --
> Mark
>
> The only snips allowed are those in messages!

Try "\", then "/", then "\" again, then "/" again...  Or if you use
pre-creased paper, you can always go with "V" + "V".  Or maybe you prefer
working sideways :  "<" then ">" and "<" (but I'm not too sure of the result
of the last "<").  And be careful with the coloured side!

Jean Villemaire





Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:45:21 -0400 (AST)
From: "James M. Sakoda" <James_Sakoda@brown.edu>
Subject: Re: PDF

I have begun to explore the use of Adobe Acrobat 3.0 to implement the
creation and reading of PDF files.  I do my line drawings with text under
them in Canvas, which does not output PDF.  I have decided that the most
efficient method of making the conversion of line drawings and text was to
use Acrobat Distiller, which took EPS format and converted them to PDF.
One page of not too complext line drawings for SST 96 required 99k for
storage in EPSF, while PDF put out by Distiller required only 17K.  I sent
a copy of it to my son, who replied that he received it without any
difficulty, used Netscape Navigator 3.0 to read it.  He was required to add
a PDF viewer plug-in, but when he did he was able to read the text without
any difficulty.  Using Eudora Pro 3.0 I had attached the file stored as SST
96 epsf.pdf on the hard disk.  This involved clicking  the attach file
button and finding the file.  I also tried reading the file using the PDF
reader, which was included with the Adobe Acrobat package and found it
reproducing the original line drawing perfectly, with both text and
drawings very clear.  I printed this version  and the printout could not be
distinguished from the original.
     It is clear that the quality of the e-mail discussions can be greatly
enhanced by addition of appropriate line drawings, which do not take too
much storage space.  The use of PDF format seems to meet this need, as well
as to insure high quality reproduction of both drawings and text.  For this
purpose the use of attadched documents makes efficient transmision
possible, and allows later use of the PDF Reader or Navigator 3.0  to view
and print them out.  The question then arises how many Origami-L
subscribers have a e-mailer which is capable of handling attached
documents?  Would it be feasible to add a page of drawings in PDF format as
a part of a mail sent to everyone one the list?  Or would it be necessary
to limit this to a one to one basis or to a limited group?  James M. Sakoda





Date: Wed, 22 Jan 1997 22:55:51 -0400 (AST)
From: Jean Villemaire <boyer@videotron.CA>
Subject: Re: new born folder !

P.F.C. Blondel wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> To all who know Marrigje Barnard; at 19:14 local time
> she has given birth to a baby boy of about 4.25 kg.
> His name is Joshua David and all is well.
> I guess she'll be folding diapers for a while!  (Sure, someone else has
already made the joke...)

Jean





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:00:31 -0400 (AST)
From: Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: wwWWWWWW

At 10:43 PM 1/22/97 -0400, Jean Villemaire <boyer@videotron.ca> wrote:
>> >_ _ _ _ _ _ _ WWWWWW
>> >
>>
>> Sorry.  I'm a bit lost....I've got to the ________ (step one).  What
comes next?

>Try "\", then "/", then "\" again, then "/" again...  Or if you use
>pre-creased paper, you can always go with "V" + "V".  Or maybe you prefer
>working sideways :  "<" then ">" and "<" (but I'm not too sure of the result
>of the last "<").  And be careful with the coloured side!

I am still lost myself. Jumping from *_* to *W* seems like topological
trickery to me. A simmilar looking fold *_MMM* is a cinch, however. Please
enlighten us, Jean.

Marc





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:14:11 -0400 (AST)
From: Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: PDF

At 10:45 PM 1/22/97 -0400, James M. Sakoda" <James_Sakoda@brown.edu> wrote:

> The question then arises how many Origami-L
>subscribers have a e-mailer which is capable of handling attached
>documents?  Would it be feasible to add a page of drawings in PDF format as
>a part of a mail sent to everyone one the list?  Or would it be necessary
>to limit this to a one to one basis or to a limited group?  James M. Sakoda

The real issue here is not the format, but if everyone is willing to
tolerate (a biased choice of wording), an occasional large document. This
has been done already on this list with jpegs and gifs, and I do not recall
hearing any complaints. On my system these files just took a few more
moments to download, so it was not much of an issue.

If you are transmitting diagrams, however, I would probably opt to send
them to the archives, rather than to the list, regardless of file size. The
archives are easy to access, and it is the first place I look for diagrams
online. A text message can always be sent to the list to indicate its
presence.

One other note. If we are to have a collection of PDF files at the
archives, it would be convenient to include the link to Adobe's web site,
so a reader can be downloaded.

Marc





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:34:27 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: PDF

On Wed, 22 Jan 1997, James M. Sakoda wrote:

=The question then arises how many Origami-L subscribers have a e-mailer which
=is capable of handling attached documents?  Would it be feasible to add a
=page of drawings in PDF format as a part of a mail sent to everyone one the
=list?  Or would it be necessary to limit this to a one to one basis or to a
=limited group?  James M. Sakoda

I can handle this no problem, but I think that, for the sake of those who are
on mail systems that charge by the size of the message, we should keep message
sizes down. Giving people the option for receiving the PDF files would
probably be preferable. Besides, not every can generate PDF files yet, so it
would only be those who can who would be sending them out. Conversely, setting
up a web page where people can pick them up would also be a good idea. I can
provide such a facility if people want it (although the logistics would have
to be worked out).

          Joseph Wu           Faith: When you have come to the end of all the
  origami@planet.datt.co.jp   light that you know and need to step into the
 Webmaster, the Origami Page  darkness of the unknown, Faith is knowing that
http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami one of two things will happen: either there will
 Webmaster, DATT Japan Inc.   be something solid to stand on or you will be
    http://www.datt.co.jp     taught how to fly.                --Anonymous





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 00:57:14 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: origami.com

Well, those who were concerned about it can now sleep soundly, knowing that
"origami.com" (at least, "www.origami.com") now belongs to an origami-related
owner. If you visit the site, you'll see that they're selling an origami video
there.

          Joseph Wu           Faith: When you have come to the end of all the
  origami@planet.datt.co.jp   light that you know and need to step into the
 Webmaster, the Origami Page  darkness of the unknown, Faith is knowing that
http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami one of two things will happen: either there will
 Webmaster, DATT Japan Inc.   be something solid to stand on or you will be
    http://www.datt.co.jp     taught how to fly.                --Anonymous





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 01:10:41 -0400 (AST)
From: Sy Chen <sychen@leatherback.nist.gov>
Subject: Re: PDF

At 10:45 PM 1/22/97 -0400, James M. Sakoda wrote:

> The question then arises how many Origami-L
>subscribers have a e-mailer which is capable of handling attached
>documents?  Would it be feasible to add a page of drawings in PDF format as
>a part of a mail sent to everyone one the list?  Or would it be necessary
>to limit this to a one to one basis or to a limited group?  James M. Sakoda
>

I don't think there are enough people knowing how to handle attached
documents. If you  are talking about showing your new diagrams it would be
better to put them into someone's home page or ftp sites (You have a page,
right?)

Happy Folding!

|------------------------------------------------------\
|  _     Shi-Yew Chen (a.k.a. Sy) <chens@asme.org>     |\
| |_| Folding http://www.erols.com/sychen1/pprfld.html --\





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 02:44:01 -0400 (AST)
From: Andy Carpenter <carpentr@rmi.net>
Subject: Models of telephones

Hi

Is anyone aware of any models of telephones that may have been published
(either in a book or a newsletter)? I work for MCI (a long-distance
telephone company for those of you outside USA) and have a display of
various models at my desk. I would like to add a phone (preferably an
old fashioned type) but have been able to track down any models.

Can anyone help?

Thanks in advance

Andy Carpenter





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 04:43:51 -0400 (AST)
From: Holmes David EXC IS CH <holmes@chbs.ciba.com>
Subject: FutureSplash plug-in (was RE: Kittyhawk site addendum)

> >In case anyone else is going through the process of getting the
FutureSplash
> >plug-in to look at the "paper creation" at the kittyhawk site.
FutureWave
> >has just been bought out by Macromedia....so Netscape says that you
have to
> >go to the macromedia site:
> >
> >http://www.macromedia.com/support/downloads/index.html
> >
> >to get the plug-in. But I don't see it there so....Let me know if
you know
> >of another place to download this?
> >
>
>
> I tried several times to get the plug-in from www.futurewave.com.  It
is
> available as a .sit file for the Mac and as .hqx (79 and 239K
> respectively).  However the download froze at 38% after 5 minutes(!)
with a
> 33.6 modem!!!!!  You start to wonder if it is really worth it, don't
you!
>
> --
> Mark

It _is_ worth it, keep trying!  Once I'd got the plug-in for Win95 I
had a look at the Kittyhawk site, plus the Official Simpsons web site.

Because the FutureSplash files are so small the download times are
very quick, and the animation really is excellent.

I've already downloaded the trial FutureSplash Animator and started
playing around with it.  Pity the full version costs $250 8^(

Dave

--
David M Holmes - Internet/Intranet Infrastructure, Novartis
<holmes@chbs.ciba.com>     - work           Ooo
<david.holmes@bigfoot.com> - other stuff   (   )
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2162         ) /
Perl Programmer && Paper Folder            (_/





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:27:08 -0400 (AST)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: Re: Getting the largest perfect pentagon from a square

Zack,

At 19.08 22/1/1997 -0400, you wrote:
>Here is a challenge: using only origami techniques, locate the five
>vertices of the largest possible pentagon on a square.
>
>Yoshizawa gives a method in his books, but it is not the largest, and it's
>not a perfect pentagon. Various puzzle books show how to get a perfect
>pentagon, but it's not the largest. (I'll post these if people want them)
>
>Any takers? I've been wondering about this for a long time.

I've solved the problem several years ago, and reported on it at the First
International Meeting of Origami Science and Technology (Ferrara, Italy,
Dec. 1989). My paper (The Elusive Pentagon) is published in the Proceedings,
and includes a mathematical analysis of some approximate methods (Yoshizawa,
Kawai, and an unpublished "nearly" exact largest pentagon sent to me by Fred
Rohm).
My method is too complicated to explain here without drawings: ASCII art is
NOT adequate in this case.... :-), but I can send photocopies (or maybe
scanned images by E-mail) to anyone interested.

Roberto

=========================
Roberto Morassi
Via Palestro 11
51100 PISTOIA
ITALY
tel & fax (+)39-573-20436
E-mail <morassi@zen.it>





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:28:14 -0400 (AST)
From: Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
Subject: RE: Kittyhawk site addendum

Mark,
At 15.26 22/1/1997 -0400, you wrote:

>I tried several times to get the plug-in from www.futurewave.com.  It is
>available as a .sit file for the Mac and as .hqx (79 and 239K
>respectively).  However the download froze at 38% after 5 minutes(!) with a
>33.6 modem!!!!!  You start to wonder if it is really worth it, don't you!

It IS worth ! Download freezing has little to do with modem speed: it's
mainly a matter od Internet crowding, busy lines and things like these. I
ALWAYS download early in the morning (6 - 8) and it usually works straight
and fast. Keep trying.....

Roberto





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:40:55 -0400 (AST)
From: Dan Johnson <D.Johnson@chemistry.leeds.ac.uk>
Subject: Compound of 5-tetrahedra

Hello all out there in paper land,

        I'm a relative newcomer to this business and have become hooked on the
     modular side of things. I've made the gum wrapper units by Valerie Vann,
     the stellated dodecahedras by Jeannine Mosely as well as a fair proportion
     of the "penultimate" Jim Pla

However.....

The quest I have at the present time is to make the compound of 5 tetrahedra
     and the 5 octahedra (the ones in Jim Plank's origami page)....PROBLEM.....
     How do I start???

As these models, IMO, are some of the best looking that I have seen, any
     advice, diagrams, brief descriptions of the modules would be greatly
     appreciated.

Later....Dan





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:47:51 -0400 (AST)
From: Dan Johnson <D.Johnson@chemistry.leeds.ac.uk>
Subject: Futuresplash plug-in

greetings all,

After reading Roberto's mail re. download times, I tried to get it myself from
     the ftp site...........16 seconds later all 150K was safely in my
     possession.  I guess that 10:30 am (GMT) is a good time to get your
     plug-ins!!

Later..........Dan





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 08:57:29 -0400 (AST)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Ian Harrison & Math Origami Article

Jean Villemaire wrote:
<<I guess this means much paper was lost.
<<I vote for a letter of silence.

Yes probably so, in the form of books, though I did
advise some folks on dealing with wet blueprints and plans,
having been through damage control on that problem myself
a couple of times.

But ironically,
I'd guess that more paper was wasted by printer drivers of the
popular Web browsers, as our main "real time" data sources
now are web sites that typically print out extra pages
with nothing more than a page header. About halfway
through the emergency, I started chucking these in a
corner, and have more than a ream of paper, which I've
started chopping down to squares to use as practice
paper. Then of course the lawsuits will consume whole
forests....

--valerie





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:55:51 -0400 (AST)
From: Jean Villemaire <boyer@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Getting the largest perfect pentagon from a square

Robby/Laura/Lisa wrote:

> I've solved the problem several years ago, and reported on it at the First
> International Meeting of Origami Science and Technology (Ferrara, Italy,
> Dec. 1989). My paper (The Elusive Pentagon) is published in the
> Proceedings, and includes a mathematical analysis of some approximate
> methods (Yoshizawa, Kawai, and an unpublished "nearly" exact largest
> pentagon sent to me by Fred Rohm). My method is too complicated to explain
> here without drawings: ASCII art is NOT adequate in this case.... :-), but
> I can send photocopies (or maybe scanned images by E-mail) to anyone
> interested.
> Salut, Roberto,

I sure would be interested in a copy.  I'm nothing of a mathematician, but
these kind of problems caught my curiosity when I bought Kasahara's Origami
Omnibus.  On pp. 76-77, he shows many ways of obtaining a pentagon from a
quare sheet:  the Haga method, a traditional Japanese method, an american
method taught by Alice Gray...  With all the mathematical equations to
support them.  I use these pages to convince teachers at school where I work
the value of origami in a classroom.  More than a game, it can lead to
understanding of theorems.  You can join me by fax in Montreal, QUEBEC at
(514)596-7979.  Thanks in advance.  BTW, do you speak french?

Jean Villemaire
Montreal,QUEBEC
boyer@videotron.ca





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 10:51:35 -0400 (AST)
From: Bernie Cosell <bernie@fantasyfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Compound of 5-tetrahedra

>       I'm a relative newcomer to this business and have become hooked on the
     modular side of things. I've made the gum wrapper units by Valerie Vann,
     the stellated dodecahedras by Jeannine Mosely as well >

One thing: *PLEASE* put newlines in your email messages.  As you can see
from the single '>' above, your entire first paragraph came through as a
single VERY long line of text.  I'm not sure what you used to compose the
message, and I'm sure that it _looked_ like it was wrapping your text at
the right margin, but it did not do the right thing: for email, there must
be *hard*returns* in to demark the ends of lines.  You ought to be able to
configure your email editor to do that...

As for 5 tetrahedra, as you'll see, the 'expert' on that stuff is on the
list so you ought to get good help.  [I've worked on that model several
times, but I've never quite gotten it finished].

  /Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
bernie@fantasyfarm.com            Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:21:36 -0400 (AST)
From: Pagina Espirita <gl@artnet.com.br>
Subject: Re: Getting the largest perfect pentagon from a square

> Date:          Thu, 23 Jan 1997 09:56:00 -0400 (AST)
> Reply-to:      origami-l@nstn.ca
> From:          Jean Villemaire <boyer@videotron.ca>
> To:            Multiple recipients of list <origami-l@nstn.ca>
> Subject:       Re: Getting the largest perfect pentagon from a square

> Robby/Laura/Lisa wrote:
>
> > I've solved the problem several years ago, and reported on it at the First
> > International Meeting of Origami Science and Technology (Ferrara, Italy,
> > Dec. 1989). My paper (The Elusive Pentagon) is published in the
> > Proceedings, and includes a mathematical analysis of some approximate
> > methods (Yoshizawa, Kawai, and an unpublished "nearly" exact largest
> > pentagon sent to me by Fred Rohm). My method is too complicated to explain
> > here without drawings: ASCII art is NOT adequate in this case.... :-), but
> > I can send photocopies (or maybe scanned images by E-mail) to anyone
> > interested.
> > Salut, Roberto,
>
> I sure would be interested in a copy.  I'm nothing of a mathematician, but
> these kind of problems caught my curiosity when I bought Kasahara's Origami
> Omnibus.  On pp. 76-77, he shows many ways of obtaining a pentagon from a
> quare sheet:  the Haga method, a traditional Japanese method, an american
> method taught by Alice Gray...  With all the mathematical equations to
> support them.  I use these pages to convince teachers at school where I work
> the value of origami in a classroom.  More than a game, it can lead to
> understanding of theorems.  You can join me by fax in Montreal, QUEBEC at
> (514)596-7979.  Thanks in advance.  BTW, do you speak french?
>
> Jean Villemaire
> Montreal,QUEBEC
> boyer@videotron.ca
>
>       Dear Jean:

        Could you tell me more about teorems and origami? I can't buy the
Origami Omnibus (and someone told me it is out-of-print), and I don't
know any other book about maths and origami. I'm a mathematics teacher
here, in Brazil. Thanks!
                              Frederico Lopes
                              gl@artnet.com.br





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 14:23:17 -0400 (AST)
From: Pagina Espirita <gl@artnet.com.BR>
Subject: Re: Getting the largest perfect pentagon from a square

> Date:          Thu, 23 Jan 1997 06:27:12 -0400 (AST)
> Reply-to:      origami-l@nstn.ca
> From:          Robby/Laura/Lisa <morassi@zen.it>
> To:            Multiple recipients of list <origami-l@nstn.ca>
> Subject:       Re: Getting the largest perfect pentagon from a square

> Zack,
>
> At 19.08 22/1/1997 -0400, you wrote:
> >Here is a challenge: using only origami techniques, locate the five
> >vertices of the largest possible pentagon on a square.
> >
> >Yoshizawa gives a method in his books, but it is not the largest, and it's
> >not a perfect pentagon. Various puzzle books show how to get a perfect
> >pentagon, but it's not the largest. (I'll post these if people want them)
> >
> >Any takers? I've been wondering about this for a long time.
>
> I've solved the problem several years ago, and reported on it at the First
> International Meeting of Origami Science and Technology (Ferrara, Italy,
> Dec. 1989). My paper (The Elusive Pentagon) is published in the Proceedings,
> and includes a mathematical analysis of some approximate methods (Yoshizawa,
> Kawai, and an unpublished "nearly" exact largest pentagon sent to me by Fred
> Rohm).
> My method is too complicated to explain here without drawings: ASCII art is
> NOT adequate in this case.... :-), but I can send photocopies (or maybe
> scanned images by E-mail) to anyone interested.
>
> Roberto
>
>
> =========================
> Roberto Morassi
> Via Palestro 11
> 51100 PISTOIA
> ITALY
> tel & fax (+)39-573-20436
> E-mail <morassi@zen.it>
> =========================
>
>       Dear Roberto:

        I'd like to know and receive by e-mail scanned images of your method.
        Thanks.
                     Frederico Lopes
                     gl@artnet.com.br
                     (BRAZIL)





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 15:21:20 -0400 (AST)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: shockwave etc

Mark <mark@gilchrist.demon.co.uk> sez

>33.6 modem!!!!!  You start to wonder if it is really worth it, don't you!

Yup - what with futuresplash, shockwave, quicktime, it's a joke. I
visited our local hypermarket site & it said "you don't have quicktime,
shall I download & install it?"  go on then I thought, 10 mins later, it
installed & self-tested fine. I revisited the site & netscape crashed!

Sorry for the NORM (non origami related material)!

No offerings for the text-only diagrams(!) request (to put on the BOS
site) yet - come on you folders!

all the best,

Nick Robinson

personal email  nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
work mail       nick@rpmrecords.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/nick
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
DART homepage   http://www.shef.ac.uk/uni/projects/oip/dart/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:53:37 -0400 (AST)
From: RA Kennedy <kennedra@isdugp.bham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Compound of 5-tetrahedra

> The quest I have at the present time is to make the compound of 5 tetrahedra
     and the 5 octahedra (the ones in Jim Plank's origami page)....PROBLEM.....
     How do I start???
>
> As these models, IMO, are some of the best looking that I have seen, any
     advice, diagrams, brief descriptions of the modules would be greatly
     appreciated.

Tom Hull has presented a set of diagrams for the compound of 5 tetrahedra,
based on a 60o strut module from 1x3 paper. They were included in a recent BOS
convention pack. I actually taught the model at the convention (Sheffield,
Autumn 1996), having first made 2 complete models. I had my class divided into
groups of 5, each member of the group folded 6 strut units (= 1 tetrahedron),
which were then assembled - with some help from my completed models. I think
about 4 compound models were completed at the convention. They are quite
splendid. Let me know if you need further information on how to obtain the
diagrams.

Richard K.
(R.A.Kennedy@bham.ac.uk)





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 17:57:54 -0400 (AST)
From: RA Kennedy <kennedra@isdugp.bham.ac.uk>
Subject: Woven Polyhedra

>
> Re: polyhedral origami
>
> Aloha Valerie, here's another fiber for your thread.
>
> Back a while ago, I think I remember a  cover story in the British Origami
> Society's newsletter/magazine, about a young Russian folder who made these
> beautiful woven polyhedral meshworks out of long STRAIGHT strips of paper.
>
> Anyone out there got their back issues handy and can look this up? I think he
> worked as a movie projectionist. The photographs were really beautiful, and
> the method was new to me, different from any other method I've seen.

The article appears in the August 1994 issue of the BOS magazine, number 167.

The woven polyhedra are the work of Vladimir Michalkinski. The article was by
Paul Jackson. You must have a brilliant memory - you are spot on with his
occupation. An address for Vladimir is given, but it is noted that his only
language is Russian! Vladimir is known to our friend Sergei Afonkin - it was
Sergei who made Paul Jackson aware of these remarkable creations. However
even Sergei has been unable to reproduce any of the models from Vladimir's
instructions! A quote:

"His technique is to create 3D geometric forms by interweaving numerous
creased strips. Each strip is pre-creased according to a pre-determined
sequence of measurements, then interwoven with others in a 360o closed
loop - closed because the ends of each loop are glued together. Depending
upon the specific track taken by each strip, the placement of the creases
can differ from strip to strip. Thus the construction is not - strictly
speaking - modular: that is, the strips are not all identical. Sergei has
on several occasions tried to find out from Vladimir how he designs and
makes his constructions, but cannot understand the instructions he has
Bye

Richard K
(R.A.Kennedy@bham.ac.uk)





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:20:32 -0400 (AST)
From: troy.tate@juno.com (Troy D Tate)
Subject: Re: Jerry Harris' Gargoyle

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Seriously trying to avoid those techies
who have a "charisma-bypass".





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 18:22:08 -0400 (AST)
From: troy.tate@juno.com (Troy D Tate)
Subject: Book buying....

I was hoping that many of you kind folders would give
me some advice and help me make a tough decision.
I received a $25 gift certificate for Barnes & Noble for
Christmas. I am wanting to spend it wisely on a
GREAT compendium of paperfolding perplexity.
In other words, I would like to buy the best book
possible for about the $25 amount. I went by
B&N today and they have both "Brilliant Origami"
by David Brill and "Origami: Angelfish to Zen" by
Peter Engel. Which one of these would you
recommend & why? Or, is there another
exciting volume that I should invest in?

BTW, I consider myself an intermediate folder
or better. I made the Kawasaki rose the first
time without any major hitches and have many
of the other intense models by Lang & Montroll.

Thanks for the information and may all your
creases be correctly creased from point A to
point B or beyond!

Troy
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Seriously trying to avoid those techies
who have a "charisma-bypass".





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 19:58:32 -0400 (AST)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Getting the largest perfect pentagon from a square

Zachary Brown <zbrown@lynx.dac.neu.edu> sez

>Here is a challenge: using only origami techniques, locate the five
>vertices of the largest possible pentagon on a square.

The solution was explored in my bos column in BO a few months back...

all the best,

Nick Robinson

personal email  nick@cheesypeas.demon.co.uk
work mail       nick@rpmrecords.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/nick
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
DART homepage   http://www.shef.ac.uk/uni/projects/oip/dart/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 22:32:47 -0400 (AST)
From: Rob Moes <robert.moes@snet.net>
Subject: Re: Book buying....

Troy writes:

>I received a $25 gift certificate for Barnes & Noble for
>Christmas. I am wanting to spend it wisely on a
>GREAT compendium of paperfolding perplexity.

You could conceivably get two excellent books for the money!  Personally I
think that Engel's book is one of the best values in all of origami--248
pages for $12.95.  You mention that you like Montroll and Lang models:  you
should be able to add one of their Dover books very easily (e.g. Montroll's
"Animal Origami for the Enthusiast" or Lang's "The Complete Book of
Origami" or maybe their collaborative effort "Origami Undersea Life")

I think you will find Engel's book a great pleasure--the models are
generally quite sophisticated and the results quite pleasing to display.
Some of these like Engel's giraffe make excellent miniatures.  Plus there's
a bonus not found in most books--the section on the history and theory of
origami is fascinating!

Brill's book has some of the most aesthetically pleasing models ever
published, largely due to their carefully sculpted three-dimensional
quality.  The photos are vitally important, but do add to the price-tag.

The success of the models in this book is much more dependent on the
specific properties of the paper used--familiarity with wet-folding,
tissue-foil or other *sandwiched* custom-made papers, etc.  It's a subtle
type of complexity.  I wasn't completely satisfied with most of my Brill
attempts until I was a fairly accomplished folder--these are the models you
spend hours painstakingly folding and refolding until you get them looking
just right.

Rob
robert.moes@snet.net





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:02:57 -0400 (AST)
From: "James M. Sakoda" <James_Sakoda@brown.edu>
Subject: Re: PDF and Attach Document

     Origami emailers are in need of a method of sending some limited line
drawings along with their verbal discussions to clarify the situation.
Setting up a home page on the world wide web is now being used and can
continued to be used, but these are probably more suitable for more
permanent and extensive diragrams or pictures.  An important difficulty
with GIF and JPEG formats used by Netscape is that they treat everything on
a page as dots, which takes up a lot of storage space and transmission
time.  As some have proposed PDF is a much more efficient format for text
and line drawings.  How efficient is it?  In my example of the one page
drawing for SST 96, storage of the drawings and text in eps format required
99k of storage, while PDF required only 17k.  When the same page was
scanned and stored in TIFF with compression it required 561k.  The point is
that the size of a limited amount of line drawings can be small enough to
send to anyone and perhaps to everyone on the list.  For example, it would
not be difficult to keep it down to 40k or less.
     The second point is that the Attach Document instruction offered by
Eudora allows me to attach the line drawings with text  as an attachment to
the email.  All I need to do is to select Attach Document from the menu and
then find the file that I want to send, presumably in a preferred format,
such as PDF, or some other format that is acceptable to the receiver.  When
the mail goes out the email appears in text form, with a note at the top
for Attachments.  If an attadhment was included its  file name, such as SST
60. pdf will appear.  The file has been stored on your hard disk, and if
you find it and have the appropriate reader (Acrobat reader) it will appear
on your screen.  You do not need to go elsewhere to download it.
     This was something I just learned working with my son, who first sent
me a picture of a cat in JPEG format, which I was able to send back to him,
simply by writing an email message with the Attach Document added.  It was
then that I realized what a handy device this could be to add to emails
when line drawings were helpful.  As an experiment I could send a copy of
SST 96 to everyone on the list.  Somewhere on your hard disk there would be
file requiring 17k of storage.   To read it one would need the Acrobat
Reader, which can be distributed free of charge or one can check
http://www.adobe.com on the world wide web.  Whkat do you think?  James M.
Sakoda





Date: Thu, 23 Jan 1997 23:12:59 -0400 (AST)
From: Jean Villemaire <boyer@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: wwWWWWWW  (was Re: Jerry Harris' Gargoyle)

Troy D Tate wrote:
>
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Seriously trying to avoid those techies
> who have a "charisma-bypass".
> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Four rows, Vs, Ws, Vs again and finally Ws.  Upper view.

Jean





Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 00:27:09 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: PDF and Attach Document

On Thu, 23 Jan 1997, James M. Sakoda wrote:

=     The second point is that the Attach Document instruction offered by
=Eudora allows me to attach the line drawings with text  as an attachment to
=the email.  All I need to do is to select Attach Document from the menu and
=then find the file that I want to send, presumably in a preferred format,
=such as PDF, or some other format that is acceptable to the receiver.  When
=the mail goes out the email appears in text form, with a note at the top
=for Attachments.  If an attadhment was included its  file name, such as SST
=60. pdf will appear.  The file has been stored on your hard disk, and if
=you find it and have the appropriate reader (Acrobat reader) it will appear
=on your screen.  You do not need to go elsewhere to download it.

The main problems, as I've already mentioned, are twofold:

1) Some people are charged for e-mail storage, so the more they receive, the
more they have to pay. If they are not interested in the particular
discussion, they still have to pay for the file that they receive.

2) Some people cannot handle attached files in their e-mail. Not everyone uses
Eudora. I certainly don't! Of course, my mail reader handles attached files
just fine, but that's not the case with all mail readers. On such readers,
attached files often become long messages filled with gibberish.

A third problem is that only a few people have the facilities to make PDF
files. This would quickly turn into a battle between the "haves" and the "have
nots" on this list. Any attempt at standardization should be usable by the
majority.

Fourth, while the Acrobat reader is free, it costs connect time to download
it, and disk space to house it. People may not be willing to spend those
resources.

          Joseph Wu           Faith: When you have come to the end of all the
  origami@planet.datt.co.jp   light that you know and need to step into the
 Webmaster, the Origami Page  darkness of the unknown, Faith is knowing that
http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami one of two things will happen: either there will
 Webmaster, DATT Japan Inc.   be something solid to stand on or you will be
    http://www.datt.co.jp     taught how to fly.                --Anonymous





Date: Fri, 24 Jan 1997 01:17:19 -0400 (AST)
From: Andy Carpenter <carpentr@rmi.net>
Subject: Re: Book buying....

I would buy the Brilliant Origami book - the name is an accurate
description. I recently made the horse that is in there and have never
been so pleased with myself. It's on display at work along with various
other models. The horse always gets more comments.

I also own the other book you mentioned - Angelfish to Zen. This too is
a great book but given the choice I'd plump for David Brills book.

Andy Carpenter

Troy D Tate wrote:
>
> I was hoping that many of you kind folders would give
> me some advice and help me make a tough decision.
> I received a $25 gift certificate for Barnes & Noble for
> Christmas. I am wanting to spend it wisely on a
> GREAT compendium of paperfolding perplexity.
> In other words, I would like to buy the best book
> possible for about the $25 amount. I went by
> B&N today and they have both "Brilliant Origami"
> by David Brill and "Origami: Angelfish to Zen" by
> Peter Engel. Which one of these would you
> recommend & why? Or, is there another
> exciting volume that I should invest in?
>
> BTW, I consider myself an intermediate folder
> or better. I made the Kawasaki rose the first
> time without any major hitches and have many
> of the other intense models by Lang & Montroll.
>
> Thanks for the information and may all your
> creases be correctly creased from point A to
> point B or beyond!
>
> Troy
> =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
> Seriously trying to avoid those techies
> who have a "charisma-bypass".
