




Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 21:42:58 -0400 (AST)
From: "Ole A. Nielsen" <nielseno@knot.queensu.ca>
Subject: francais, aussi

Salut plieurs et plieuses,

<le francais est ma deuxieme langue; excuse les erreurs grammaticaux>

Moi aussi je crois que l'usage d'un anglais internationnelle serait
probablement la meilleure reponse au probleme de l'usage du francais sur
origami-l mais pour ce qui parlent seulement le francais, ou juste un peu
d'anglais, ceci pourra encore poser des problemes. (Devrions-nous revenir
encore a la question de Quebec-Canada et la separation!?!?) Peut-etre qu'on
devra "permettre" le francais pour que plus de gens pourraient s'amuser ici.
Moi ne ne serait pas insulte si des gens ecrivait en italien ou allemend
(deux langues pris au hazard que je ne comprend pas) sur origami-l pour
pouvoir communauquer, et j'espere que les autres ne sont pas insulte avec le
francais ici.
(Les americains ont-il deja trop entendu de notre debat de langues?!?)

Janet Nielsen

nielseno@post.queensu.ca





Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 18:17:40 -0400 (AST)
From: casida@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Casida Mark)
Subject: Re: francais

Hi all,

I am afraid that my previous message to the list may have been a bit too=
 hasty
to communicate what I really think.  As an American living in Montreal,
integrating into a French environment, and as a scientist constantly exposed
to the very international nature of science, I am sensitized to language
issues.  If there is sufficient interest, please do generate parallel=20
origami lists in French, Spanish, etc.  I believe that the ability to=20
communicate origami in one's own language is important for popularizing
origami.  At the same time, I am an internationalist who very much enjoys
the type of exchanges we've seen on the Origami-l.  (Thank you, guys!
You make it all worth while!)  In this context, there is nothing wrong
that I can see with an occasional message in (say) Italian reporting the=20
visit of a favorite author to a local club in Italy.  However I realise
that this attitude is not going to lead to a decreased list volume.  (Don't
forget to use subject lines and where the delete key is.)  Sorry about the
low origami content of this message.  Take care, =20

                                ... Mark

P.S. I'd just like to add a small note about Americans and second languages.
     Although a good knowledge of a second language is less common in the
     U.S. than in some other countries, many Americans have become adept
     in a second language.  About 20 years ago, the most common second
     language for an American was French.  I have heard that the most
     common second language for an American now is Spanish (and with=20
     reason.)

Bonjour a tous,=20

J'ai peur que mon message precedent a ete ecrit trop vite pour bien=
 communiquer
ce que j'ai en tete.  Dans ma position d'un Americain qui habite a Montreal,
qui est en train de s'integrer dans une culture francophone, et comme=20
scientifique entouree par la culture internationelle de la science, je
me trouve sensible aux questions de langue.  Si l'interet est suffisant,
je vous encourage d'etablir des liste parallele en francais, espagnole,
etc.  L'abilite de communiquer dans la langue maternelle est vachement
important pour la popularisation de l'art de pliage de papier. =
 Simultanement,
je suis internationellist qui aime bien la sorte d'echange qu'on trouve
sur notre chere liste Origami-l.  (Je vous remercie pour tous ces petits
moments de bonheur que j'ai passe en lisant vos messages.)  Dans ce
context, il n'y a pas de mal s'il y a un message occasionnelle en (disons)
italien qui donne un compte rendu d'une visite d'un auteur favorit a un
club d'origami en Italie.  Mais je sais que mon attitude ne va pas diminuer
la volume de correspondance sur l'Origami-l.  (N'oubliez-vous pas a mettre
un sujet et comment enlever les messages qu'on veut pas lire!)  Je m'excuse
du pauvre continu d'origami dans ce message.  Mes meilleurs salutations,

                                ... Mark

P.S. J'aimerai juste ajouter une petite commentaire sur les americains
     et leur soi-disant difficultes apprenant une deuxieme langue.
     Bien que une connaissance d'une deuxieme langue est moins commune
     aux Etats-Unis que dans certains autres pays, il y a pas mal=
 d'americains
     qui se debrouille dans une deuxieme langue.  Il y a 20 ans, la
     deuxieme langue la plus repondue aux E-U a ete le francais.  J'ai
     entendu-dire que c'est maintenant l'espgnole.

--=20
*-------------------------------------------------------*
|          Mark E. Casida                               |
|          e-mail: casida@chimcn.umontreal.ca           |





Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:09:51 -0400 (AST)
From: "Ole A. Nielsen" <nielseno@knot.queensu.ca>
Subject: ORigami trains

>
>Anyone know of a source of diagrams for a railroad train.  Something like=
=20
>a steam engine and a car or two would be great if I could find it..
>
>Thanks!

Actually, thinking back, I remember seeing a whole train set in PAUL
JACKSON'S book THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF PAPERCRAFT (the title may be a little
off;it's been some time since I saw it). The train looked amazing! It's sure
worth a shot.

Janet
nielseno@post.queensu.ca





Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 22:03:39 -0400 (AST)
From: Sheldon Ackerman <ackerman@dorsai.dorsai.org>
Subject: non origami specific

>=20
> Salut plieurs et plieuses,
>=20
> <le francais est ma deuxieme langue; excuse les erreurs grammaticaux>

Antshuldigt mir far maina grazin. Ich ken nisht shraibin yiddish mit
Englisha osiyos.
Ich farshtai nisht farvoos men fangt yetst un shraibin in andera shpreichin.
Ich volt lieb gehat az yeder shreibt in English!

--=20
Sheldon Ackerman.......http://www.dorsai.org/~ackerman/
ackerman@dorsai.dorsai.org
sheldon_ackerman@fc1.nycenet.edu





Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 23:54:43 -0400 (AST)
From: Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: Railroad train models?

At 07:24 PM 10/30/96 -0400, Bernie Cosell" <bernie@fantasyfarm.com> wrote:
>Anyone know of a source of diagrams for a railroad train.  Something like=
=20
>a steam engine and a car or two would be great if I could find it..

Max Hulme did a few. They can be found in the BOS publication, *Max Hulme
Selected Works.* This might not be in print still, so you might have trouble
locating a copy. Also, Emanuel Moosler (sp?), created a ground-breaking
train from a railroad map. This model seems to have been passed on by word
of mouth; diagrams do not exist to my knowledge. There is also a chance
Steven Casey developed one; when I met him about ten years ago, he was doing
some very interesting vehicle oriented models.

Marc=20





Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 16:58:15 -0400 (AST)
From: Edward Crankshaw <ejcranks@hiwaay.net>
Subject: Sculpture Piece

For those of you interested in seeing the piece of sculpture I on
display during my show last month, I have managed to get a decent black
and white scan of it. It can be seen at:

http://fly.hiwaay.net/~ejcranks/sadako.html

Hopefully, I will soon have a color scan which will illustrate the piece
as it appeared in the gallery.

Edward Crankshaw





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 00:02:28 -0400 (AST)
From: Steven Casey <scasey@enternet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Railroad train models?

>Anyone know of a source of diagrams for a railroad train.  Something like=
=20
>a steam engine and a car or two would be great if I could find it..
>
>Thanks!
>  /Bernie\
>--=20
>Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
>bernie@fantasyfarm.com            Pearisburg, VA
>    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--         =20
>

There's instructions for Max Hulme's Stephenson's Rocket in "The
Encyclopedia of Origami and Papercraft" by Paul Jackson. There are photo's,
but no instructions, for a "Tender" and "Freight car". Instructions for the
"Tender" can be found in "Max Hulme Selected Works 1973 - 1979" published by
the British Origami Society.=20

Also a "brilliant" model of a "Traction Engine" complete with fly wheel,
chimney and canopy can be found in issue 57 of "British Origami", also by
Max Hulme.

Steven Casey     =20
scasey@enternet.com.au =20
Melbourne, Australia





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 00:09:44 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Railroad train models?

On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Marc Kirschenbaum wrote:

=3DAt 07:24 PM 10/30/96 -0400, Bernie Cosell" <bernie@fantasyfarm.com>=
 wrote:
=3D>Anyone know of a source of diagrams for a railroad train.  Something=
 like=20
=3D>a steam engine and a car or two would be great if I could find it..
=3DMax Hulme did a few. They can be found in the BOS publication, *Max Hulme
=3DSelected Works.* This might not be in print still, so you might have=
 trouble
=3Dlocating a copy. Also, Emanuel Moosler (sp?), created a ground-breaking
=3Dtrain from a railroad map. This model seems to have been passed on by=
 word
=3Dof mouth; diagrams do not exist to my knowledge. There is also a chance
=3DSteven Casey developed one; when I met him about ten years ago, he was=
 doing
=3Dsome very interesting vehicle oriented models.

Don't know if you can still find it, but Akira Kawamura's "Origami
Vehicles in the New Style" (I think that's how the title goes) has a
series of train engines and train cars, as well as many other vehicles,
all done with box-pleating.

          Joseph Wu           Faith: When you have come to the end of all=
 the
  origami@planet.datt.co.jp   light that you know and need to step into the
 Webmaster, the Origami Page  darkness of the unknown, Faith is knowing that
http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami one of two things will happen: either there=
 will
 Webmaster, DATT Japan Inc.   be something solid to stand on or you will be
    http://www.datt.co.jp     taught how to fly.                --Anonymous





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 00:18:06 -0400 (AST)
From: Rodney Grantham <rodney@worldnet.att.net>
Subject: Origami sighting - of sorts

Today's 10/30 Wall Street Journal has a Hewlett Packard ad listing
things employees do to kill time.  One fairly far down the list is
"Turning bellybutton lint into origami".

Rodney





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 00:40:29 -0400 (AST)
From: Kanako Kondo <kondo@datt.co.jp>
Subject: kore nani?

Turning bellybutton lint into origami".
kore-ha nani?

Kanako Kondo
Kondo@datt.co.jp





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 01:45:56 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Shared and Artistic Origami (LONG!) (And getting longer)

On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Michael & Janet Hamilton wrote:

=3DSome other ideas - since the type of origami we seem to be talking about
=3Dseems to be mostly made up of models of biological subjects, perhaps this
=3Dcould be "bio-realistic origami".  Or since the goal is to capture the
=3Dessence of a subject, maybe "essence origami".=20

No, it's not about biological subjects. Paul Jackson's recent works are of
a rather abstract nature. "Essence origami" might work, but one may argue
that any origami is an attempt at capturing the essense of an object in
folded paper. I still don't have a good term for it.

=3DWhich leads to a question - did any of the discussion at the SEOF address
=3Dmodular origami?  IMHO, the models on Valerie Vann's modular pages are
=3Dart as mush as LaFosse's Toucan.=20

Nope. We didn't talk specifically about it, but I don't think that was a
deliberate slight of modular origami. It's just that the people at the
table weren't modular folders, so the topic didn't come up. The gist of
what we talked about is in my previous e-mail. If you all (Robert?) will
excuse the use of the word "artistic", then the shcool of thought I was
talking about should be clear.

          Joseph Wu           Faith: When you have come to the end of all=
 the
  origami@planet.datt.co.jp   light that you know and need to step into the
 Webmaster, the Origami Page  darkness of the unknown, Faith is knowing that
http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami one of two things will happen: either there=
 will
 Webmaster, DATT Japan Inc.   be something solid to stand on or you will be
    http://www.datt.co.jp     taught how to fly.                --Anonymous





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 01:38:46 -0400 (AST)
From: Jean Villemaire <boyer@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: Francais ou autres langues

Doris Lauinger wrote:
>=20
> Hello, allo, hallo, ola.....
> let's talk about origami again - nous voulons parler d'origami, la=DFt uns
wieder
> =FCber Origami sprechen, parliamo di origami,  origami tsuite hanismasho=
 ne....
>=20
> Doris

Hey, I'm the one that started all this circus in french.  I'm sorry if it=20
turns out sour for some delicate tongues (in french, "langue" means=20
language as well as tongue).  I'm a newcomer on the list.  A frog (not=20
quite as inflated as the traditional one) from Quebec looking for origami=20
mates, who has found some and also a few toads... :-) =20

I find more interesting topics in "shared and artistic origami", "doodle=20
folding"...  I still prefer folding more than looking at folded models. =20
I really appreciate pieces of recent history, thoughts about "masters",=20
for instance.  I would like it if any page on the history of origami=20
would talk about the origami movement around the world and about=20
different associations with more details.  I guess each one of these=20
associations should allow us all to know how it started, how it=20
developped, how it contributed in sharing and creating origami...  Who=20
will be the one to collect all this information and give us a "more=20
complete picture of modern origami", a picture of us all, not only a=20
publisher's press release about a renowned (and not less=20
respected) creator?  Come on, let's hear about all the other folders, the=20
ones who buy the books, who subscribe in memberships, who attend=20
conventions, who lurk on this line, who teach their skills in a discreet=20
way...  Origami, not only technical, but very popular an artform.

Jean Villemaire, Montreal, Quebec
boyer@videotron.ca





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 06:52:08 -0400 (AST)
From: zachary brown <zbrown@lynx.dac.neu.edu>
Subject: Re: Keeping message volume down

I'd like to throw in my two cents with the people who want to keep things
the way they are. I think what we should want and expect, is more and more
messages as more and more people gain interest in origami.  Increasing
volume is a very natural property of this list, and to try to regulate
such a thing would be strange. At best, all that would happen is that many
people would feel stymied and unwelcome in an origami discussion.=20

If there were a lot of unrelated messages, that would be a different=20
story, but there aren't, at least not now. Saying there should be less=20
messages is like saying that the origami discussion taking place is=20
uninteresting.

For people who are having a problem with their mailbox flooding with=20
origami-l, why not just get the list in digest form? It may not be as=20
good as reading individual messages, but I'd say it's certainly better=20
than trying to lower the volume of the list.

Zack





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:37:33 -0400 (AST)
From: titovsky@caribe.net (Ernesto Alonso)
Subject: Re: Francais ou autres langues

I like and agree with this idea
Titovsky
--------------------------------------
>I find more interesting topics in "shared and artistic origami", "doodle
>folding"...  I still prefer folding more than looking at folded models.
>I really appreciate pieces of recent history, thoughts about "masters",
>for instance.  I would like it if any page on the history of origami
>would talk about the origami movement around the world and about
>different associations with more details.  I guess each one of these
>associations should allow us all to know how it started, how it
>developped, how it contributed in sharing and creating origami...  Who
>will be the one to collect all this information and give us a "more
>complete picture of modern origami", a picture of us all, not only a
>publisher's press release about a renowned (and not less
>respected) creator?  Come on, let's hear about all the other folders, the
>ones who buy the books, who subscribe in memberships, who attend
>conventions, who lurk on this line, who teach their skills in a discreet
>way...  Origami, not only technical, but very popular an artform.
>
>Jean Villemaire, Montreal, Quebec
>boyer@videotron.ca





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:30:53 -0400 (AST)
From: Steven Casey <scasey@enternet.com.au>
Subject: Re: Railroad train models?

Marc Kirschenbaum wrote:

>At 07:24 PM 10/30/96 -0400, Bernie Cosell" <bernie@fantasyfarm.com> wrote:
>>Anyone know of a source of diagrams for a railroad train.  Something like=
=20
>>a steam engine and a car or two would be great if I could find it..

>Max Hulme did a few. They can be found in the BOS publication, *Max Hulme
>Selected Works.* This might not be in print still, so you might have=
 trouble
>locating a copy. Also, Emanuel Moosler (sp?), created a ground-breaking
>train from a railroad map. This model seems to have been passed on by word
>of mouth; diagrams do not exist to my knowledge. There is also a chance
>Steven Casey developed one; when I met him about ten years ago, he was=
 doing
>some very interesting vehicle oriented models.
>
>Marc=20
>

I have done a Stevenson's Rocket but it's not diagrammed. Another book comes
contains a "locomotive", "carriages" and "goods wagon" plus a "guards van"
and a "railway station". This book is probably out of print, but someone
might be willing to loan or sell you a second hand copy. (I wouldn't mind a
copy myself.)

I have diagrams of a train by Emmanuel Mooser, it's a steam train with two
carriages all from a two by one rectangle, but it has a cut. A modified
version was created by I. Zuber from a three by one rectangle. The diagrams
are  copies from the BOS Library. The library code is "J019" . Another sheet
labeled "J005" was attached  with "J019".

Emmanual Mooser also created an impressive eastern style dragon from an
eight by one rectangle which was published in "Simple Origami" by Eric
Kenneway. An abstract design was published in "The Encyclopedia of Origami
and Papercraft Techniques" on page 125. Hope this helps.

All the Best,

Steven Casey     Melbourne, Australia
scasey@enternet.com.au





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:34:12 -0400 (AST)
From: titovsky@caribe.net (Ernesto Alonso)
Subject: Shared and Artistic Origami (Terms)

How about Origami?  Music is still music from Gregorian Chant to
20th-century many kinds of music.  All kinds of music in sucha large time
span intended so many different things, but they still are music.  Just a
thought.

Titovsky
--------------------------------------

>No, it's not about biological subjects. Paul Jackson's recent works are of
>a rather abstract nature. "Essence origami" might work, but one may argue
>that any origami is an attempt at capturing the essense of an object in
>folded paper. I still don't have a good term for it.





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 09:43:55 -0400 (AST)
From: titovsky@caribe.net (Ernesto Alonso)
Subject: RE: francais, aussi

The problem is how could I know if may be interesting to me if I do not
read it first?  I may be enriched with other postings, but I have to give
that opportunity.  If not command-D (delete)

Titovsky
--------------------------------------
>In other cases, responses are likely to only =3D
>be of real importance to the author of the original message.  I'd like to=
=3D
>see those responses made directly to the originator without going to the=3D
>list - if only to reduce the huge number of messages we have to look at.=3D





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:11:35 -0400 (AST)
From: Howard Portugal <howardp@fast.net>
Subject: Re: Railroad train models?

Bernie Cosell wrote:
>=20
> Anyone know of a source of diagrams for a railroad train.  Something like
> a steam engine and a car or two would be great if I could find it..

Bernie, I have a book called I think "Origami Vehicles in the new style"
or something like that. It's in Japanese and the models are all
box-pleated. It does however have at least an engine and a few railroad
cars in it. Also, one of the BOS booklets has an engine called "The ????
rocket" I believe that it is Max Hulme's.

--=20
Howard Portugal   |  When you have eliminated the impossible,=20
West Chester, PA  |  whatever remains, however improbable,=20
howardp@fast.net  |  must be the truth.
                 |  Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
                 |  Sherlock Holmes, in The Sign of Four, ch. 6 (1889).





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 10:47:38 -0400 (AST)
From: "james white" <jwhite@osha.igs.net>
Subject: Re: Keeping message volume down

=20
| For people who are having a problem with their mailbox flooding with=20
| origami-l, why not just get the list in digest form? It may not be as=20
| good as reading individual messages, but I'd say it's certainly better=20
| than trying to lower the volume of the list.
|=20
| Zack

At the risk of stating the obvious....

Another viable option could be, change brower/reader combination to one
that sorts your mail and places it different "folders". eg.(e-mail separate
from orgami-l).

Jim
jwhite@osha.igs.net





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:06:50 -0400 (AST)
From: DLister891@aol.com
Subject: Re: Gershon Legman's Lover's Knot and the Bow-tie

On 31st October, Mark Casida asked how to fold the Bow-tie that so=
 fascinated
Gershon Legman. I thought that others might like to know too, so at the risk
of overburdening the system with an excess of meeage volume, here are some
clues.

Look in Robert Harbin's "Paper Magic" (Oldbourne Press, 1956, reprinted as a
paperback byJ. Maxfield Ltd. of 9, The Broadway, Mill Hill, London, NW7  3LN
in 1964 and reprinted many times. It was until recently available from BOS
Supplies, but it doesn't appear in the latest list and I fear it may now be
out of print.)=20

The classic Lover's Knot or Lotus is on page 42.

The Bow-tie, which is from rectangular paper and can be done as a=
 money-fold,
is on page 92.

It is fascinating to think that in their day these folds were in the=
 vanguard
of paperfolding technology!

I'm sure both folds appear in other books. Perhaps a search in the archives
would yield some sources. I heartily recommend both folds to those folders
who, like me, like their folding to be relaxed but fascinating.

David Lister
Grimsby, England

DLister891@AOL.com





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:07:10 -0400 (AST)
From: DLister891@aol.com
Subject: Re: Railroad train models. Emanuel Mooser.

The differences between the American and British languages never cease to
fascinate me. The British call them Railway Trains. Thr Americans call them
Railroad Trains. Neither name is incorrect in either language and yet=
 despite
widespread sharing of books, magazines, films and television and despite the
vast numbers of people who flit backwards and forwards across the Atlantic
every day, we still persist in our repective idioms.

What I intended to say before I strayed from the path was that I have a
diagram for Emanuel Mooser's original Train (and the diagram is headed just
"Mooser's Train", neither railroad nor railway.).The diagram  is dated 20th
March 1867 and is by  R.A.McLain. That would be Raymond McLain. The diagram
is not the ordinary kind of folding instructions. Only a single diagram is
given, namely, the crease pattern, together with notes in tiny handwriting=
 on
how to assemble the model.There is a sketch of the completed train at the=
 top
of the page.

The item is J 005 in the British Origami Society Library.

This model is of the greatest importance in the history of paperfolding.
While there were one or two earlier, much simpler proto-examples of the
technique, Mooser's Train is the first fully-fledged example of the=
 technique
of folding boxes or strings of linked boxes from one piece of paper, which
was soon to be developed by Max Hulme and which eventually led to Robert
Lang's Cuckoo Clocks .(Max Hulme, of course designed an improved Train, but
Emanuel Mooser's was the first.) I call this technique "Box-folding", but
others prefer the term "Box -pleating", a term which, in my opinion, should
have a more limited application to designate one particular style of folding
developed by Neal Elias". But I'm diverging.

I think that Raymond McLain's instructions for Mooser's train need to be
amplified and drawn out fully, so that the model can be given the prominence
it deserves. I have no skills whatsoever in diagramming. Perhaps someone=
 else
will have a go. And then it is possible that someone will make it generally
available by publishing it. Of course, permissions must be obtained first,
but I'm sure there would be no difficulty about that. The existing diagram=
 is
of too poor quality to send by E-mail, but if anyone would like to take up
the challenge, please get in touch with me direct and we can dicuss the
matter.

I have, for some time been accumulating information about Emanuel Mooser,=
 who
is Swiss and now retired, and I have been able to write to him. If anyone=
 can
tell me anything about him, his techniques or his models, please let me know
 In particular, he visited New York sometime in the 1960s and visited the
Origami Center. I shall be grateful if anyne can tell me anything at all
about this visit and especially the date. I thought there was a snippet=
 about
it in the Origamian, but I have been unable to find it.

I hope, when my research is as complete as I can make it to write it up in a
BOS booklet, with diagrams for some of Dr. Mooser' models.

David Lister
Grimsby, England.

D.Lister891@AOL.com





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:29:34 -0400 (AST)
From: Jean Villemaire <boyer@videotron.ca>
Subject: Re: francais, aussi

Ole A. Nielsen wrote:
>
> Salut plieurs et plieuses,
>
> le francais est ma deuxieme langue; excuse les erreurs grammaticaux.

Nous nous comprenons tres bien.  Bravo.

> Moi aussi je crois que l'usage d'un anglais internationnelle serait
> probablement la meilleure reponse au probleme de l'usage du francais
> sur origami-l mais pour ce qui parlent seulement le francais, ou juste
> un peu d'anglais, ceci pourra encore poser des problemes.

Le seul systeme international qui soit vraiment efficace entre nous tous
et toutes qui plions du papier est celui des codes de pliage elabore par
les fondateurs de l'origami moderne.  Those small signs were just the
right thing.

> (Devrions-nous revenir encore a la question de Quebec-Canada et la
> separation!?!?)

I'm working on a model called "Separation".  It's modular origami and
each part is a work of art by itself.  One of them, in particular, "Fleur
de lys", is pretty complicated.  It's two-coloured and one wouldn't know
how it can be attached to the other parts of the modular without a secret
key-pleat.  (Origami joke... :-))

> (Les americains ont-il deja trop entendu de notre debat de langues?!?)

Tu sais, ca fait un peu changement de "marbling paper"...  It's all about
"how to get together and fold at ounce".

Si tu viens a Montreal, peut-etre pourrais-tu venir plier avec nous au
nouveau club d'origami que nous sommes en train de mettre sur pied?

Jean Villemaire, Montreal
boyer@videotron.ca





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 11:48:18 -0400 (AST)
From: jtweres@lucent.com
Subject: Re: Keeping Message Volume Down

fellow paper folders,,,

the bottom line is:
                  TAKE WHAT YOU LIKE
                  LEAVE THE REST

the second bottom line is:
                         subscribe to the DIGEST form of the list

for the rest of the line
please read on

>
> I put in a vote for leaving things as they are.  At least the letters are
> mostly on topic and interesting.  And there ain't a lot of ads for "Get Rich
> Quick Scemes" and "Online Nekkid Women".
>

you know what i find interesting
about these "Message Volume Too Much" threads
is that
       we join a list to find out information
       about a particular subject we share an interest in

       when we start receiving this information
       some start complaining about receiving
       TOO MUCH INFORMATION

       some start complaining about seeing the courteous "thank-you"
       and other personal etiquette
       because IT WASTES BANDWIDTH

       some start complaining because they saw something
       about "string figures" or "too much french"

       TAKE WHAT YOU LIKE LEAVE THE REST

       like kim said, this list is mainly on topic

       to start suggesting "something like moderation"
       for those few digressions from topic
       is like trying to kill an ant with a sledgehammer

       i get the sunday newspaper
       -- you know, that big monster that shows up every week

       i don't read the whole entire newspaper from beginning to end:
       i read the sections i'm interested in
       and if, by chance, something catches my eye
       from a section i don't usually read

       guess what???
       -- i'll read it
          but at least it is there to catch my eye

and for those keeping track of originator's location:
        chicago-metro area, illinois, usa, earth, milky way

  /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-///plieur de papier\\\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
 /=-= jack thomas weres                         jtweres@lucent.com =-=\
/=======================\\\================///=========================\
"Let Go and Let Fold"                             "One Crease At A Time"





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 12:08:30 -0400 (AST)
From: Holmes David EXC IS CH <holmes@chbs.ciba.com>
Subject: RE: Railroad train models. Emanuel Mooser.

Hi David,

> From:         DLister891@aol.com[SMTP:DLister891@aol.com]

[snip]

> What I intended to say before I strayed from the path was that I have
a
> diagram for Emanuel Mooser's original Train (and the diagram is
headed just
> "Mooser's Train", neither railroad nor railway.).The diagram  is
dated 20th
> March 1867 and is by  R.A.McLain. That would be Raymond McLain. The
diagram

[snip]

> I have, for some time been accumulating information about Emanuel
Mooser, who
> is Swiss and now retired, and I have been able to write to him. If
anyone can

[snip]

> David Lister
> Grimsby, England.
>
> D.Lister891@AOL.com

I really have no wish to nit-pick, because I enjoy reading your
knowledgeable explanations of origami, but I feel I must 8)

If the diagram was dated 1867, obviously Emanuel Mooser created
the model before then.  If Emanuel Mooser is, as you state, now
retired (i.e. still living), he must be over 130 years old!
Not bad going. 8)

Is it a typo or my logic that's wrong ?

Dave

----
David M Holmes <holmes@chbs.ciba.com>
Internet/Intranet Infrastructure, Ciba-Geigy
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2162
"Error: Caffeine Not Found - Programmer Halted"





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 00:13:54 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: francais, aussi

On Wed, 30 Oct 1996, Ole A. Nielsen wrote:
=Salut plieurs et plieuses,
=<le francais est ma deuxieme langue; excuse les erreurs grammaticaux>

Le francais est ma troisieme langue. (French is my third language.)
Therefore, I'll stick with English.

=Moi aussi je crois que l'usage d'un anglais internationnelle serait
=probablement la meilleure reponse au probleme de l'usage du francais sur
=origami-l mais pour ce qui parlent seulement le francais, ou juste un peu
=d'anglais, ceci pourra encore poser des problemes. (Devrions-nous revenir
=encore a la question de Quebec-Canada et la separation!?!?) Peut-etre qu'on
=devra "permettre" le francais pour que plus de gens pourraient s'amuser ici.
=Moi ne ne serait pas insulte si des gens ecrivait en italien ou allemend
=(deux langues pris au hazard que je ne comprend pas) sur origami-l pour
=pouvoir communauquer, et j'espere que les autres ne sont pas insulte avec le
=francais ici.

I understood most of this, and I agree. Origami-l is currently mainly
English, but I wouldn't object to seeing discourses in other languages,
too. Translation would be nice, of course, but that might be asking for
too much.

=(Les americains ont-il deja trop entendu de notre debat de langues?!?)

Perhaps, but not all Americans are monolinguals, nor are all monolinguals
American. If you really want to know if the Americans have had enough of
our discussion on languages, why don't you ask them? 8)

          Joseph Wu           Faith: When you have come to the end of all the
  origami@planet.datt.co.jp   light that you know and need to step into the
 Webmaster, the Origami Page  darkness of the unknown, Faith is knowing that
http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami one of two things will happen: either there will
 Webmaster, DATT Japan Inc.   be something solid to stand on or you will be
    http://www.datt.co.jp     taught how to fly.                --Anonymous





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:12:38 -0400 (AST)
From: Pat Slider <slider@ims.mariposa.ca.us>
Subject: Re: francais, aussi

>=(Les americains ont-il deja trop entendu de notre debat de langues?!?)
>
>Perhaps, but not all Americans are monolinguals, nor are all monolinguals
>American. If you really want to know if the Americans have had enough of
>our discussion on languages, why don't you ask them? 8)

oh, I can't resist posting anymore. I think one reason we Americans haven't
been posting on this topic is we're mildly offended at the mild-American
bashing that has been going on. It's all unintentional, I'm sure, but I
think those of other countries shouldn't make such general assumptions about
the Americans on the list! Or any other nationality for that matter! We're
all individuals. I believe most of us on the list have had a decent education.

I for one have no problem reading French and enjoy doing so, but feel too
rusty to trust myself writing it. My true second languages are Latin and
Greek. (These languages were my BA, but come to think of it they are getting
rusty too. Not too many Romans up here in the Sierras :->.) I can post in
Pig Latin too! And I'm working on learning Spanish. I know other Americans
that are TRILINGUAL!

Post in whatever language you like! I'm sure there is an audience for
whatever language you choose to write in. (But perhaps if you wish to share
your information with the largest possible number of subscribers, you might
consider writing in English? Maybe we should all learn Esperanto to be
fair?) But please can we proceed and keep the topics related to origami?

I confess to being guilty of non-origami content here myself, and I'm a
little worried about sending this mild-flame....But hey the adrenaline is
pumping :->.

pat slider
slider@yosemite.net

p.s. Here's some origami content....What do you think a Roman would call a
paper-folder? "Chartam plicatus"? Although, I would expect papyrus to be a
little thick. Maybe you could wet-fold it?





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 13:17:23 -0400 (AST)
From: Jeannine Mosely <j9@concentra.com>
Subject: origami lecture at Harvard

I'll be speaking to the Phliomorphs group at Harvard University next
week.  Here's the announcment:

        -- Jeannine Mosely

*** PHILOMORPHS ***

Dear Philomorphs,

Please join us for next meeting:

"Menger's Sponge Building Workshop"

Jeannine Mosely
Artist & Computer Scientist

Monday, November 4th, 1996 at 8:00 p.m.

Harvard University
Carpenter Center for the Visual Arts, Room 401
24 Quincy Street
Cambridge, Massachusetts

Menger's Sponge is a fractal solid:  an infinitely self-similar object with
zero volume and infinite area.  In this workshop, we will explore the
geometry of the sponge by building modules that can be assembled into an
approximate model of this fascinating fractal.

The modules will be constructed using classic origami techniques.  The
finished sponge will incorporate over 66,000 individual pieces, measure 4.5'
x 4.5' x 4.5', and weigh 160 pounds.  This is just one session in a series of
on-going activities -- we will not complete the sponge model at this meeting.
 When completed, the sponge will be displayed publicly (no specific sites
have yet been set).  For more information about this project, please visit
http://world.std.com/~j9/sponge.

The Philomorphs meet on the first Monday of each month during the Spring and
Fall semesters unless otherwise noted.  All meetings are free and open to the
public.  Interested friends and colleagues are welcome to attend.
 Suggestions for future speakers or meeting topics, and notes on other items
of interest are encouraged.  Those wishing to receive future notices via
email may send a note to kthidemann@aol.com.

All who receive this announcement by mail are asked to make a modest donation
to defray the reproduction and postage costs.  Many thanks to all who have
donated.  The 2-digit number next to your name on the address label is the
year through which you will remain on the active mailing list (i.e., '96
means you'll receive mailings at least through Dec. '96).  If no number
appears, you're on the list until further notice.  If you wish to be dropped
from the list at any time, please let us know that as well.  (Note: The
mailing list is continually in the process of being updated.  If you have
sent a renewal notice recently, the date listed next to your name on the
address label may not yet reflect this.)

Contributions and address changes may be sent to the following address.
 Please make checks payable to "Philomorphs."
Philomorphs
Carpenter Center for the Visual Arts
Harvard University
Cambridge, MA 02138





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 14:33:42 -0400 (AST)
From: Howard Portugal <howardp@fast.net>
Subject: Re: Railroad train models. Emanuel Mooser.

DLister891@aol.com wrote:
>>>>>Snip<<<<<<
> I hope, when my research is as complete as I can make it to write it up in a
> BOS booklet, with diagrams for some of Dr. Mooser' models.
>
> David Lister
> Grimsby, England.
>
> D.Lister891@AOL.com

David,

I really like to read your biographical posts about various origamians.
Have you ever considered compiling them all in a single publication? I
for one would love to see it. Perhaps as special BOS newsletter or
booklet?

--
Howard Portugal   |  When you have eliminated the impossible,
West Chester, PA  |  whatever remains, however improbable,
howardp@fast.net  |  must be the truth.
                 |  Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
                 |  Sherlock Holmes, in The Sign of Four, ch. 6 (1889).





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 15:35:16 -0400 (AST)
From: Steven Casey <scasey@enternet.com.au>
Subject: RE: Railroad train models. Emanuel Mooser.

At 12:09 PM 31/10/96 -0400, you wrote:
>Hi David,
>
>> From:        DLister891@aol.com[SMTP:DLister891@aol.com]
>
>[snip]
>
>> What I intended to say before I strayed from the path was that I have
>a
>> diagram for Emanuel Mooser's original Train (and the diagram is
>headed just
>> "Mooser's Train", neither railroad nor railway.).The diagram  is
>dated 20th
>> March 1867 and is by  R.A.McLain. That would be Raymond McLain. The
>diagram
>
>[snip]
>
>> I have, for some time been accumulating information about Emanuel
>Mooser, who
>> is Swiss and now retired, and I have been able to write to him. If
>anyone can
>
>[snip]
>
>> David Lister
>> Grimsby, England.
>>
>> D.Lister891@AOL.com
>
>I really have no wish to nit-pick, because I enjoy reading your
>knowledgeable explanations of origami, but I feel I must 8)
>
>If the diagram was dated 1867, obviously Emanuel Mooser created
>the model before then.  If Emanuel Mooser is, as you state, now
>retired (i.e. still living), he must be over 130 years old!
>Not bad going. 8)
>
>Is it a typo or my logic that's wrong ?
>
>Dave
>
>----
>David M Holmes <holmes@chbs.ciba.com>
>Internet/Intranet Infrastructure, Ciba-Geigy
>http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2162
>"Error: Caffeine Not Found - Programmer Halted"
>

My copy shows the date as March 20th, 1967 "worked out by R. K. Mclain" It
includes written and typed instructions . The written instructions are
designated  "J005" and the typed instructions as "J019". There is a
supplement to Moosers Train by I. Zuber which was done in what looks like
the year 1975.

The final step finishes with:

" 15. If you succeed you get the prize for diligence. I'll take one two!
This is surely a clever model and points the way to future 3D Origami."

regards,

Steven Casey

scasey@enternet.com.au





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 16:48:15 -0400 (AST)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@homelink.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Railroad train models?

Bernie Cosell <bernie@fantasyfarm.com> sez

>Anyone know of a source of diagrams for a railroad train.

Try "Origami Vehicles" by Momotani.

all the best,

Nick Robinson   Sheffield, England

email           nick@homelink.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/nick
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 21:03:41 -0400 (AST)
From: deg farrelly <ICDEG@ASUVM.INRE.ASU.EDU>
Subject: Train models

Bernie Cosell writes:

>Anyone know of a source of diagrams for a railroad train.  Something like
>a steam engine and a car or two would be great if I could find it..

Momotani's "Transportation" book included an entire train, and
tracks in its original version/edition.

My understanding is that subsequent editions of the book eliminated
some or all of the train.  But if you can find an original copy...

|:^}>

deg farrelly
1601 West Sunnyside Drive, #115       E-Mail:  deg@asu.edu
Phoenix, Arizona  85029               Phone:   602.943.8175





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 23:03:11 -0400 (AST)
From: jdharris@post.cis.smu.edu (Jerry D. Harris)
Subject: Another Origami Sighting!

Hi Gang! -

        Since we all love hearing about the latest public place where
origami raises it's reverse-folded head, I just got done doing Statistics
homework in front of NBC's "Suddenly Susan," in which, towards the end, one
of her bored co-workers folds a Chinese restaurant place-mat into a
flapping bird (which didn't quite seem to flap all that well, but the folds
were impeccable)!

        OH, and BTW -- note the invisible sig line...  ;-)

                                                -- Jerry





Date: Thu, 31 Oct 1996 23:21:52 -0400 (AST)
From: imcarrie@actrix.gen.nz (Ian Carrie)
Subject: Re: Railroad train models?

>Bernie Cosell wrote:
>>
>> Anyone know of a source of diagrams for a railroad train.  Something like
>> a steam engine and a car or two would be great if I could find it..
>
>Bernie, I have a book called I think "Origami Vehicles in the new style"
>or something like that. It's in Japanese and the models are all
>box-pleated. It does however have at least an engine and a few railroad
>cars in it. Also, one of the BOS booklets has an engine called "The ????
>rocket" I believe that it is Max Hulme's.
>
>--
>Howard Portugal   |  When you have eliminated the impossible,
>West Chester, PA  |  whatever remains, however improbable,
>howardp@fast.net  |  must be the truth.
>                  |  Sir Arthur Conan Doyle
>                  |  Sherlock Holmes, in The Sign of Four, ch. 6 (1889).

The Max Hulme "Stephenson's Rocket" model is also diagramed in Paul
Jackson's "Encyclopedia of Origami and Papercraft Techniques".

Ian Carrie





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 08:26:01 -0400 (AST)
From: "Chen Jiahao" <s1800017@singnet.com.sg>
Subject: Non-English Postings

Personally, I don't mind messages in French or other languages.  However,
this is not an America-only mailing list; some readers can't read them.

I suggest that French postings have a <Fr> placed in the subjects, e.g..
<Fr> Bonjour! [Something like that], Japanese postings with <Jp>, etc. etc.
 Of course, no tag for English since most of the messages are in English.

Translations are greatly appreciated.
==========
Chen Jiahao
<jiahao@pobox.org.sg>





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:11:42 -0400 (AST)
From: Derek Stottlemyer <dereks@ic.net>
Subject: Re: Another Origami Sighting!

Hello to all,
        There is a game called "GURPS" (Generic Universal Role Playing System,
like Dungeons and Dragons), where one skill you (Your fictional character) can
learn is Origami.  It even has a picture of a crane.
        BTW-  If there are any Spanish speakers out there, let me know.

        -  Me gustaria placticar con los que habla Espan~ol, si hay en este
     lista.

        Derek Stottlemyer
        dereks@ic.net
        Birmingham, MI





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 09:26:56 -0400 (AST)
From: Jean Villemaire <boyer@videotron.ca>
Subject: Fr.  (Re: Non-English Postings)

Chen Jiahao wrote:
>
> Personally, I don't mind messages in French or other languages.  However,
> this is not an America-only mailing list; some readers can't read them.
>
> I suggest that French postings have a <Fr> placed in the subjects, e.g..
> <Fr> Bonjour! [Something like that], Japanese postings with <Jp>, etc. etc.
>  Of course, no tag for English since most of the messages are in English.
>
> Translations are greatly appreciated.

C'est une bonne idee. :-)

Jean Villemaire, Montreal, Quebec
boyer@videotron.ca





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 13:29:39 -0400 (AST)
From: jtweres@lucent.com
Subject: roman folding

fellow folders,,,

> p.s. Here's some origami content....What do you think a Roman would call a
> paper-folder? "Chartam plicatus"? Although, I would expect papyrus to be a
> little thick. Maybe you could wet-fold it?

> pat slider
> slider@yosemite.net

from "Chartam plicatus"
i would envision folding Charmin toilet paper
and when it would tear
yelling out some expletive that sounds like "plicatus"!!!

** Charmin is an american name brand of toilet paper

  /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-///plieur de papier\\\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
 /=-= jack thomas weres                         jtweres@lucent.com =-=\
/=======================\\\================///=========================\
"Let Go and Let Fold"                             "One Crease At A Time"





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 00:36:07 -0400 (AST)
From: hull@MATH.URI.EDU
Subject: Re: Shared and Artistic Origami

Joseph Wu wrote (quoting Janet Hamilton),

> =Which leads to a question - did any of the discussion at the SEOF address
> =modular origami?  IMHO, the models on Valerie Vann's modular pages are
> =art as mush as LaFosse's Toucan.
>
> Nope. We didn't talk specifically about it, but I don't think that was a
> deliberate slight of modular origami. It's just that the people at the
> table weren't modular folders, so the topic didn't come up.

        Excuse me, Joseph, but I was there, remember?  No, the specific
topic of modulars didn't come up, and I didn't bring it up because
I knew what Jackson would have said: "That's not art."  However,
the topic of geometric origami did come up, and modular stuff
can be said to fit into that.  But my impression as to what LaFosse and
Jackson were saying was that such work is interesting, but easily
reproducible and thus fits into the "paint by numbers" realm of "art".
For example, I remember that one of Joseph's models was on the table
in front of us - a section of his in-progress dragon, which was
a great dragon head with a wildly scaled neck (done with a clever
tessellation fold).  At severl points in the conversation I remember
Paul Jackson picking up the model and commenting that it, for example,
was a wonderful model, but was more of an excercise, not a finished
work of art, etc. etc.
        You know, it all really comes down to your own personal
definition of what art is.  I strongly believe that "art" depends on
how you look at things.  A chocolate chip cookie can be thought of as
a "work of art", provided that you think of it in the right way.
But a lot of people (artists, especially) don't like this definition
because it implies that literally everything is art.  I agree!
But Paul Jackson (at least how I understand him) won't stand for this
because otherwise how would he define himself as an artist?  He needs
to be very clear at to what is art and what isn't, if only to be
able to define his profession.  (He told us how he had to do a LOT
of arguing just to convince his artist colleagues that origami really
is a "valid" artform, so of course he's going to have very strong
opinions about what art is!)
        But also let me say that I really benefit a hellofa lot from
listening to people like Paul Jackson.  He is incredibly knowledgable
about origami and has such great insights that listening to his
opinions on this subject is extremely thought-provoking.  I may not
agree with him all the time, but I respect his viewpoint and admit
that there's a lot to be learned from looking at the origami world
through his eyes.

--------- Tom "flaming blue buttons" Hull
          hull@math.uri.edu
          Wakefield, RI





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 00:51:55 -0400 (AST)
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re:Robert Harbin

David, Nice to hear from you again.  I like what you said about . Oppenheim,
Legman, and Harbin.  It is true they were facilitators,and I like to think of
them as gurus.   I once said to Lillian that the Origami group was like a
cult.  She didn't like that idea very much and said so.  I also thought
Lillian was a catalyst of the movement because her skill at getting people
together was phenomenal and her knack of making everybody feel important was
unique.  I have been involved for 36 years and watched with amazement the
growth of this art in the last l2 years particularly.  Who would have thunk
it?  I myself had an experience with Robert Harbin when I visited London and
called him.  He came to my hotel before he was off to do a magic show and
spent about two hours  in the lobby folding with me.  I had just learned the
unfoldable dollar bill trick and showed it to him.  I was tickled because it
took him quite a while to figure it out.  He was absolutely charming and
showed me how to get very sharp creases using the back of my thumbnail as
well as presenting me with a couple of his autographed books.  This is
something  I always pass on to every class that I teach and always give him
credit  for this wonderful thumbnail idea.  When I was in England at a
convention, I had the opportunity to watch some of his Origami shows and he
was my inspiration for doing my own Origami show which lasted 10 and 1/2
years and 240 half hour shows.  Lillian was my inspiration for being able to
verbalize instructions because whenever I would call her, she would insist I
would teach her a model over the phone and she would keep saying "make me
understand. You have to verbalize better".  I realized that good
verbalization was creating drawings with words and this was a great help in
teaching classes over the years.  Yes, indeed, those people were indeed the
energizers of this movement.  Many new folders don't remember these people
but  I think we all owe them a debt of gratitude for the gift of making
Origami so much a wonderful part of our lives..  Dorigami, Freehold, N. J.





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 00:51:44 -0400 (AST)
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re: test please read 2

Got your e-mail.....Dorigami





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 00:55:13 -0400 (AST)
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re:  adding  town or country to E-mails

I think adding town or country to E-mails as someone suggested is a wonderful
idea.  I find it hard to figure out where some of them are coming
from.Dorigami.
Also "how I  got started lettersaaa' were very interesting to all of us.
 Could we have some more if you are newcomers.  I have saved them and will
make up an overview when I have enough.  Dorigami





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 05:04:07 -0400 (AST)
From: Maarten van Gelder <M.J.van.Gelder@rc.RUG.NL>
Subject: Re: Menger's Sponge web page

Jeannine,

Your idea is marvelous! I like the picture you show of the level 2 sponge.

It's a pitty I can't join you. Sending assembled pieces from Holland is too
expensive. And moreover I doubt if the size of the business cards is the same
as in the USA. Here nearly each company has its own size: it is not
standardized.

I had some trouble when building another structure with playing cards in the
same way you make the sponge. Also the various decks of playing cards didn't
have the same sizes. Some were 3 millimeter longer than other ones!
But we made a structure in wich a horizontal row of cubes was suspended on
two columns at the ends. The row could reach to ten cubes at least without
breaking.
You may see the picture at:

   http://www.rug.nl/~maarten/fotos/cardhous.gif

Maarten van Gelder,           Rekencentrum RuG,  RijksUniversiteit Groningen
M.J.van.Gelder@rc.rug.nl                         Nederland





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:55:25 -0400 (AST)
From: "Brett Askinazi" <askinazi@i1.net>
Subject: Re: Access to the Origami USA web page?

> Has anyone had trouble accessing the OUSA web page.  I have it bookmarked

> at http://www2.gsu.edu/~gs01yyj/ousa/ousa.html and when I try to access
it
> I get:
>
>       Forbidden
>
> Your client is not allowed to access the requested object.
>
>
> ???
>   /Bernie\
> --
> Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
> bernie@fantasyfarm.com            Pearisburg, VA
>     -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--

Yusri Johan took his website down.  Origami USA pages were hosted by him.

Wonder who's gonna pick up the Torch ?

I have a space where it could go, if someone wants to email me the HTML
files.

Brett
askinazi@i1.net





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:48:43 -0400 (AST)
From: Holmes David EXC IS CH <holmes@chbs.ciba.com>
Subject: RE: Access to the Origami USA web page?

Hi,

> From:         Bernie Cosell[SMTP:bernie@fantasyfarm.com]
>
> Has anyone had trouble accessing the OUSA web page.  I have it bookmarked
> at http://www2.gsu.edu/~gs01yyj/ousa/ousa.html and when I try to access it
> I get:
>
>       Forbidden
>
> Your client is not allowed to access the requested object.

Yeah, that's the same as my bookmark, I'm getting the same error.
Looks like the file permissions have been changed at some point.

Dave
(Cambridge, England but currently on a work placement in Switzerland)

----
David M Holmes <holmes@chbs.ciba.com>
Internet/Intranet Infrastructure, Ciba-Geigy
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2162
"Error: Caffeine Not Found - Programmer Halted"





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 14:13:06 -0400 (AST)
From: Kristine Tomlinson <ktomlinson@platinum.com>
Subject: Re: Gershon Legman and his bibliography

Hi,

In David Lister's 10/29/1996 post about Gershon Legman, he mentioned
Gershon's 1952 "Bibliography of Paperfolding" containing English
bibliography exist?  Would the OUSA library be likely to have a copy?

I was planning on starting my own pre-1876 American bibliography
based on what I turn up at my favorite research library.  It sounds like
there's no need if one has been started, as the early English and
American books tend to overlap. An existing bibliography would certainly
save me some time!

Also, I just came across a reference to a "true lover's knot" being
mentioned in "Mother Bridget's Dream Book and Oracle of Fate" (no date,
thanks to Tom Hull for the source).  Some years ago, I did research into
19th century dream books, and in particular the "Book of Fate" (which
may be the same as Oracle of Fate). The Mother Bridget's book rings a
bell.  I have three copies of the Book of Fate ranging from
1830-something to the present and didn't see any mention of this knot.

These dream books were as popular as the early magic and girl's and
boy's activity books that I've quoted here earlier in October.  Though I'm
not familiar with the knot, it does make me wonder if it's the same knot
that ended up in Harbin's "Paper Magic".  Uh, oh, here comes another
research project and visit to the library :-)

By the way, thanks to David for the wonderful original post.

Kristine
ktomlinson@Platinum.com
Waltham, MA, USA





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 15:16:06 -0400 (AST)
From: Pat Slider <slider@ims.mariposa.ca.us>
Subject: Re: roman folding

>from "Chartam plicatus"
>i would envision folding Charmin toilet paper
>and when it would tear
>yelling out some expletive that sounds like "plicatus"!!!
>
>
>** Charmin is an american name brand of toilet paper

'Course Charmin to a Roman would be true treasure :->.

By the way, Kevin Kenney offered the variation "Chartam Plicator"....I think
he is right. But I do like "charta" for paper as it implies a sheet or piece
of paper versus a whole scroll. I think there is still a committee in the
Vatican that decides on new "Latin" words for modern inventions. Wonder what
their opinion would be on this one?

pat slider
slider@yosemite.net





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 19:04:33 -0400 (AST)
From: DLister891@aol.com
Subject: Folding Papyrus

In jest, Pat Slider wonders what an ancient Roman would call a paperfolder
and goes on to muse that papyrus would be a litle thick for folding, but
perhaps it could be wet-folded.

I don't think the Romans had paper, but we should bear in mind that paper is
only a particular kind of felted material and it is conceivable that in Roman
times there was some such material that history has not recorded and that has
perished before the archaeologists could get their hands on it. But assuming
that this was not so, the ancient Romans could not, of course, have had a
word for folding paper in the modern sense of paper.  On the other hand there
might well be a word in late mediaeval or modern latin. The language survived
and continued to evolve after the fall of the empire! Perhaps someone with
access to a mediaeval or later Latin Dictionary could look it up

It has always been generally assumed that papyrus could not be folded and
that therefore folding only became possible with the introduction of paper
from the East. (I am not of course referring to folding cloth.) I think,
however that  we are possibly a little over pessimistic about the folding
potentiality of papyrus. New papyrus is not nearly so brittle as most people
think and it can be quite thin. Moistening it would certainly make it more
foldable.What seems to clinch the matter is that in a museum in Italy (in
Turin, I think), there is a fragment of a folded map made of papyrus.It is
folded in the normal way maps are folded today. It came from Egypt and
apparently dates from either the Hellenic or the Roman period. Perhaps the
maker of the map spoke Greek or Coptic, but if he spoke Latin, what did he
call the process? My Latin has rusted to the stage of disintegration but the
Latin word "charta" was used for papyrus, so Pat's suggestion of "chartam
plicatus" seems a possibitity to me. Or it might be "charta plicator".





Date: Fri, 1 Nov 1996 21:09:08 -0400 (AST)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Folding Papyrus & Oridoughy xxxx

On Fri, 1 Nov 1996, Jack & Emma Craib wrote:

=I just remembered!! I've got a sheet of new papyrus at work...I'll try
=to fold something Monday if I can dig it out of my unfiles.  It's
=killing me that this idea came up today, Friday.  Does anyone do filo
=dough edible origami or something like that?  oridoughy?  TGIF...Emma

Oripastry, perhaps? Yamaguchi has done some dough folding. He folded
vegetables out of coloured dough, and boiled them. There was an article
about it in one of the issues of Oru magazine.

          Joseph Wu           Faith: When you have come to the end of all the
  origami@planet.datt.co.jp   light that you know and need to step into the
 Webmaster, the Origami Page  darkness of the unknown, Faith is knowing that
http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami one of two things will happen: either there will
 Webmaster, DATT Japan Inc.   be something solid to stand on or you will be
    http://www.datt.co.jp     taught how to fly.                --Anonymous
