




Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:29:10 -0300 (ADT)
From: Miss Emma Jane Griffiths <emmajg@cardiffcybercafe.co.uk>
Subject: Re: "Origami for the Connoisseur"

Here's the contents of the book:

Chapter 1: The beauty and delight of geometric forms
logical & lyrical - making froebel's square
hourglass by jun maekawa
rotating tetrahedron by tomoko fuse
origami ideal
the meaning of dividing
the haga theorm
expansion of the haga theorm
brain ticklers
lidden cube box by david brill
creases and development plans
extraterrestrial being by jun maekawa
folding for identical obverse and recerse surfaces
iso-area (obverse/reverse) folding example 1- coaster #1 by toshikazu kawasaki
iso-area folding example 2- coaster #2 by toshikazu kawasaki
the kawasaki theorm of creasing
iso-area folding example 3- kawasaki cube #1 by tk
variations of k cube
cube & octahedron
iso area eg 4 k cube 2
supersonic reconnaissance SR-71  by tk
space shuttle by tk
modular origami
sonobe module by mitsunobu sonobe
simplified sonobe module-bicolor diabolo pattern by kunihiko kasahara
exploring the multimodular sphere
polyhedrons & multimodular shere
paper sculpture from units
bottle gby david brill
regular polyhedrons from single sheets of square paper by kazuo haga
tetrahedron, independently inveted by haga, kasahara and maekawa
the hk cube or trick dice  by haga & kasahara
octahedron by kazuo haga
icosahedron by kh
dodecahedron by kh
plandrawing for a dodecahedron
the limitless appeal of the cube
the fujimoto cube by s fujimoto
th ehosoya cube
tomoko unit
rotating ring cubes
seven geometric forms
dodecahedron unit
octahedron
ptarmigan  icosahedron

 chapter 2  creases have a message to make
kitten
goose
pelican
clapper rail
kangeroo
giraffe
malay tapir
horse
fox
camellia bloom and branch
rose  toshikazu kawasaki
3 vegetables green pepper, eggplant$ radish (daikon)
flowercut hard bolied egg
pine cone
spiral snail shell
sea-snail shell
murex shell
bround beetle
ramphorhynchus
stegosaurus

there you go!
Em*

At 17:24 22/08/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Does anyone recall any of the models from this book? Types? Levels of
>difficulty?
>Thanks,
>Steve
>--
>
>
>--Steve W. Payne -------------------- swpayne@cast.msstate.edu --
>|MSU - Center for Air-Sea Technology  swpayne@whale.st.usm.edu  |
>|Bldg. 1103, Room 233                 Tel.: (601)688-7141       |
>|Stennis Space Center                 Fax:  (601)688-7100       |
>|MS 39529-6000                                                  |
>|   "If we knew what we were doing, it wouldn't be research"    |
>-----------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
---------------------------------------------------
             Miss Emma Jane Griffiths
      E-mail: emmajg@cardiffcybercafe.co.uk
  URL: http://www.cardiffcybercafe.co.uk/~emmajg





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 18:47:35 -0300 (ADT)
From: chall@scsn.net (Carol Hall)
Subject: Re: WaterBombs - what else?

>>> Ok, has anyone ever REALLY put water in a Water Bomb ?
>
>Sure have! At school, a "friend" even topped this up with black ink &
>dropped them from the 3rd floor onto the playground victims below.
>
And all the rest of the answers...... You know, one might just get the
impression that we have a bunch of juvenile delinquents (or trainers
thereof) on this list! ;-)

Carol Hall
chall@scsn.net





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:12:41 -0300 (ADT)
From: cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister)
Subject: Re: Anatomically correct dragonfly

Thanks, John for an interesting article.  I quite agree with you.  I try to
think of the spirit of a thing or animal I am folding--is it strong?  Is it
happy?  Is it funny?  For that reason, I often take a lot of pleasure from
folding the kid stuff, esp with the kids.  They, too, are  more interested
in showing how they feel about their subject, than dipicting the subject
itself.  You will see pictures of their families, for instance, drawn with
monstrously huge dogs--the dog may be no bigger than a spaniel, but it is
hugely importantly.

>Well whar does this lead to?. Well if the argument has any merit it should
>encourage us to seek the very essence of the life form we are trying to
>model, that is the visual symbolism which arouses in us the same emotions as
>seeing the real thing. I think Yoshizawa has tried to put over this message
>many many times. One of the benefits of minimal folding was to make us think
>very hard about the real essence or visual symbol for the form and attitude
>we were trying to represent.

                    Cathy





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:13:55 -0300 (ADT)
From: cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister)
Subject: Re: WaterBombs

>We paperfolders operate in a real, rough, tough world!
>
>David Lister
>
No Kidding!!!!  what scary stories;  Please do not give any ideas to the
kids I teach, God knows they can can create enough havoc without any hepl!
Strangely, no child has ever yet asked me why the water bomb base is
so-named.  I count my blessings every day.......

            Cathy

        PS  I think we were smarter kids....This bunch seems devoid of
imagination....

                                            CPL





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:13:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister)
Subject: Re: cranes mailed to Hiroshima

Hi, Carol
        Thanks for the info on mailing cranes.  The kids will be delighted.

            Cathy





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:13:44 -0300 (ADT)
From: cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister)
Subject: Re: Enterprise and rights

>This reminds me of my favorite story from the Atlanta Olympics:
>A local man constructed a yard art torch in his front yard as a festive
>touch.  The Atlanta Committee for the Olympics demanded that he take in down
>- it violated their control of Olympic symbols.  They threatened to sue.
>The guy said "When ACOG pulls the torch off the Statue of Liberty, I'll take
>mine down."
>His torch stayed put for the duration....
>Carol Hall
>chall@scsn.net

I love it!!!!

        I realise the need to protect ownership rights, and ideas belong to
their creators, but sometimes the lawyers go too far.  What's wrong with
free advertising?

                            Cathy





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:14:06 -0300 (ADT)
From: cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister)
Subject: Re: Hello to Cathy Palmer-Lister

Hi, Dave!
> But in addition, many of us have met personally again and again by attending
>some of the many Origami Conventions that are held around the world. As a
>result, we really are personal friends. You are already one of us and maybe
>we shall meet one day.

Thank you!  I hope to get to a convention someday, but I have never heard of
one in this area.  Indeed, I never knew there were such things!  I would be
anxious to see real paper folders at work.  Being self-taught means not
recognizing my own mistakes.

>Since your name has been linked to mine, I have no doubt that if we went back
>in time  we should find we were related. The name "Lister" is Scandinavian
>and I was told by an American Lister living in Germany that our name is
>associated with the seashore and water.

This I had never heard.  As far as I know, Russell's family is originally
from England. a lister was the fellow who made the lists at tournements.

>At least they are unlikely to associate you with Red Dwarf, as they do me!.
>

Oh, yes they do!   Red Dwarf is real big around here, and I belong to a lot
of sci-fi clubs.  "They're all dead, Dave," enjoys about the same popularity
as "He's dead, Jim." However when I check into hotels for sci-fi conventions
and heplful friends tell the poor clerks my name is spelt as in They're all
dead, Dave, the blank looks are priceless.  The show has not yet got into
the mainstream, which is just as well.  Are you a fan?

            Cathy





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:19:49 -0300 (ADT)
From: cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister)
Subject: RE: Enterprise

Hi, Wayne1

>Actually the US Navy has been naming ships Enterprise long before Star Trek
>even went on the air
True!
 (am I infringing their rights by saying Star Trek?).

Yes!  Isn't it ridiculous?  Of course they cannot enforce this, nor would
they want to, but it creates a huge grey area.  It's hard to know what you
can get away with.

>If my memory is correct, the name even goes back to the age of sail.  So if
>any sueing should take place, I think the US Navy should go for it.

Now that would be fun to watch!!

 By the
>way, has anyone considered folding the US Navy versions of the Enterprise?

Whoaaaaa.....One ship at a time, here....Still, this does give me food for
thought.  Do you know the wall on the Enterprise where there are models of
all the previous ships named Enterprise?  Now wouldn't that make an
interesting display for a sci-fi convention!  Maybe when I retire...

                                                                Cathy





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:19:15 -0300 (ADT)
From: cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister)
Subject: Re: Enterprise and rights

Hi, Joseph!

>
>As a fan of fokelore, it's interesting to see how this story has changed
>already in such a short time. The first version I read, on Southam's
>(Canadian newspaper conglomerate) "Canadians in Atlanta" homepage, was of a
>young T-shirt vender selling unlabelled T-shirts with a torch on the front.
>The rest of the story is the same. Sounds like this will grow into yet
>another urban myth. I wonder if similar stories exist from the time of the
>LA Olympics?

Southam would be interested in torch stories--have you seen their logo?

            Cathy





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:19:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister)
Subject: Re: Sydney bookstores?; SF-origami link

Hi, Bob!

        Thanks for those origami references.  I am not a Gibson fan myself,
but many of my friends are.  One of the Trek novels, I think it might have
been Wrath of Khan, has Spock buying a gift for Jim and having it packaged
in an origami box.

        If you don't mind, I will use the references at a workshop I am
doing for a local sci fi group.  It would make a great poster to put on the
wall.

                                                                        Cathy





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:19:38 -0300 (ADT)
From: cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister)
Subject: Re: cranes mailed to Hiroshima

Hi, Steve!

>And also a fairly well-known folksong, "Cranes over Hiroshima",
>by Fred Small.  A summary of this story should really go into a
>FAQL, here and/or on a.a.o.
>
Is this on an album, and if so is it still available?  Can it be sung with
children, or is it too sentimental
for kids?

            Cathy





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.CA>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:51:21 -0300 (ADT)
From: Bernie Cosell <bernie@fantasyfarm.COM>
Subject: Copyrights, redux (was Re: Kawasaki's Rose)

On 22 Aug 96 at 12:54, Miss Emma Jane Griffiths wrote:

> I had this email from Jennine
>
> Well it's a shame I can't put it on a web nevermind but I think
> emailing is ok.  If anyone know the legal complications please let
> me know.

Why would you think that "emailing is OK"? The laws are a bit different in
the UK than in the US, although now that we are all signatories to the
Berne Convention things are a bit better in line...  The basic point is
that the creator of a work has the *SOLE* prerogative to decide how, and
when, and to whom copies of it made be distributed.

That isn't such a hard rule, although it is often an annoying one to deal
with. All you have to ask is "did I make a copy", and if the answer is
yes, then "did I get the creator's permission to distribute that copy".
If THAT answer isn't yes, then what you're doing isn't legit.

In fact, if anything, your statement about emailing versus the web is
probably 180 degrees incorrect. In emailing a copyrighted work to someone,
you are *explicitly* transmitting a copy and that is 100% clearly not
cricket unless you can make a case that the transmittal falls under "fair
use". In the case of the web, you don't actually make the illegal copies,
so it isn't so clear, quite, exactly _who_ violated the copyright laws.
[your liability would be in having put the item on your web page: although
you didn't make the 100s of copies that would then be floating around
the world, you WOULD have to have made that _first_ copy and so you'll get
nailed, anyway].

Jeanine's advice is a bit skewed:

> >I just thought I should warn you that scanning diagrams and mailing
> >them to individuals is fine (it's like xeroxing a page for a friend),
> ...

Sorry, but "like xeroxing a page for a friend" doesn't fall under any
copyright exemptions that I know of [expecially if it involves copying the
*entire* work, as would be the case for origami diagrams]. There is a
practical question here --- obviously, there's essentially no way to
*catch* anyone making a single [improper] copy of a copyrighted work, and
there's also no real way to prosecute such a thing [since the "damage"
from the improper copy is pretty minimal]. But this is a *practical*
aspect, not an _ethical_ one. Making one copy for a friend infringes
*JUST* as surely as making 40,000, even if the harm and exposure and
culpability is less.

  /Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
bernie@fantasyfarm.com            Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 20:57:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: Bernie Cosell <bernie@fantasyfarm.com>
Subject: Re: Enterprise and rights

>         I realise the need to protect ownership rights, and ideas belong to
> their creators, but sometimes the lawyers go too far.  What's wrong with
> free advertising?

Absolutely nothing, probably. If you're so sure that the creator will be
pleased and/or approve of the "free advertising", what is the problem with
asking before you publicize/copy? If your contention is correct [and you
know as well as I do that it is not], then the creator will be tickled to
have the "free advertising" and so give you the goahead, and you can
continue with both a clear conscience and a no legal qualms.

The other end of the spectrum is to ask and be told "thanks but no
thanks". In which case, again, you path, both legally and ethically, are
clear.

I don't know what to make of the "I'm sure they'd think this was OK, but
I'm not going to ask" position. It has always struck me as legally
questionable and ethically cowardly, but YMMV.

  /Bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
bernie@fantasyfarm.com            Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 21:07:15 -0300 (ADT)
From: "ANITA L. HAWKINS" <ahawkins@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: May I introduce myself?

Did I hear a "yes"?

Okay! Hi, I'm Anita.

Nice to meet you (all) too.

I've been an off&on folder for years... never been to a convention
(yet!), but have a groaning shelf of origami books attesting to
fairly serious involvement (and a fairly serious bookstore bill :) ).
Just joined the list, and am already wondering what I've let myself in
for (in a good sort of way). The bonsai list already swamps my inbox
daily, and y'all are keeping the level high...

I started folding in 6th grade, thanks to a innovative "elective
semester" that let our teachers do a short course on nearly anything. Our
social-studies teacher (Mrs. Waller) did origami for a hobby, and shared
it with us. Isao Honda's World of Origami was our Book of Books, and is
in my library still! Lost interest after a while, then started again in a
boring high-school class, when a square notepaper seemed to fold itself
into a shrimp. Funny how the fingers remember what the mind forgets...
wish I could find a way to fold differential equations!

A friend met in the hospital about 10 years ago started a second awakening,
and this time it looks like going on. Very useful hobby when you work in
a research lab, and have to sit through hour-long talks for a few minutes
of interesting bits... Of course, I have hardly any completed models
laying around, as they all seem to get given away. Especially if you fold
to pass away long bus or train rides... and a great way to make friends!

Someone posted just recently about what a sharing group origamiists
(origamians?) are, and that certainly looks to be true from what I've
seen so far. A remarkably generous and rancor-free list, congrats!

A pleasure to join you... hope I can find something to contribute now and
then.

Anita
Havre de Grace, Maryland





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 21:10:29 -0300 (ADT)
From: cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister)
Subject: Re: To a Thousand Paper Cranes -- a poem

>TO A THOUSAND PAPER CRANES
>
>Paper scrap creatures
>square off, assemble,
>lift neck and lift tail
>stretch wings till you tremble.
>Link one to another,
>one thousand on strings;
>enfold your creator
>with healing of wings.
>
>          --Stephen Vinik

I like it, thank you for sharing it.  May I read it to the kids I teach?

                                                                        Cathy





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 21:10:56 -0300 (ADT)
From: cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister)
Subject: Re: WaterBombs - what else?

>>>> Ok, has anyone ever REALLY put water in a Water Bomb ?
>>
>>Sure have! At school, a "friend" even topped this up with black ink &
>>dropped them from the 3rd floor onto the playground victims below.
>>
>And all the rest of the answers...... You know, one might just get the
>impression that we have a bunch of juvenile delinquents (or trainers
>thereof) on this list! ;-)
>
>Carol Hall
>chall@scsn.net

I here I was congratulating myself on finally meeting up with such a nice
bunch of people!

                    Cathy





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 21:10:45 -0300 (ADT)
From: cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister)
Subject: Re: Origami Omnibus

>While "Origami for the Connoisseur" is a great origami book, I'd just like
>to add that "Origami Omnibus" is excellent in my opionion as well.

I have both books, and have folded quite a lot from both.  I think there is
something wrong with the Omnibus, it reads like a personal journal with a
few missing entries.  The editor must have fallen asleep at the wheel.  Some
of the designs in both are easy enough for kids, other much more complex.  I
find his directions difficult to understand--the rose and the lion totally
defeated me and I can't even figure out why.  They seemed so simple!!  And
yet other designs just flow magically along.  I wouldn't part with either one.

    Cathy





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 21:38:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister)
Subject: Re: Enterprise and rights

Hi, Berny!

>
>>         I realise the need to protect ownership rights, and ideas belong to
>> their creators, but sometimes the lawyers go too far.  What's wrong with
>> free advertising?
>
>Absolutely nothing, probably. If you're so sure that the creator will be
>pleased and/or approve of the "free advertising", what is the problem with
>asking before you publicize/copy? If your contention is correct [and you
>know as well as I do that it is not], then the creator will be tickled to
>have the "free advertising" and so give you the goahead, and you can
>continue with both a clear conscience and a no legal qualms.
>
>The other end of the spectrum is to ask and be told "thanks but no
>thanks". In which case, again, you path, both legally and ethically, are
>clear.
>
>I don't know what to make of the "I'm sure they'd think this was OK, but
>I'm not going to ask" position. It has always struck me as legally
>questionable and ethically cowardly, but YMMV.
>
>  /Bernie\

You are talking about the creators--artists, authors, etc.  I am talking
about Paramount.  This outfit is another kettle of fish entirely.  I have
worked with sci-fi clubs and conventions for six or seven years now.  The
level of exploitation is unreal.  Ask Diane Duane someday.

                            Cathy





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:06:05 -0300 (ADT)
From: "ANITA L. HAWKINS" <ahawkins@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Re: WaterBombs

> At 14:52 21/08/96 -0300, you wrote:
> >Ok, has anyone ever REALLY put water in a Water Bomb ?
> >

If you make them from waxed paper, the sort sold in grocery stores for
wrapping sandwiches, they hold together (even when filled) long enough to
gather a nice big stash to take up to that upper-floor dropoff site!

Anita
Havre de Grace, Maryland





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 22:50:12 -0300 (ADT)
From: Steve Arlow <yorick@conch.aa.msen.com>
Subject: Re: Enterprise

Wayne Ko <Herman_Ko@mindlink.bc.ca> writes:
>
>Actually the US Navy has been naming ships Enterprise long before Star Trek
>even went on the air (am I infringing their rights by saying Star Trek?).

Maybe, but probably not.  :)  To be really safe, you need to
acknowledge that "Star Trek" is a trademark of Paramount studios,
and disclaim that you are using their trademark for purpose of
identification only.  That is perfectly legal.

For some other sample legalese, see the disclaimer at the bottom
of the web page I'm maintaining on _Treks Not Taken_, a forthcoming
book of Star Trek: _The Next Generation_ parodies by Steven R.
Boyett (Ernest Hemingway does Trek, Dr. Seuss does Trek, Anne Rice
does Trek, etc...) at:

    http://www.msen.com/~yorick/treks.html

(plug plug plug).

  -- Steve

And since this thread has wandered a bit afield, I'll add an

ObOrigami:  I just retrieved Mark Kirschenbaum's diagrams for
            "The Missionary" from the archives, and found that
            they were in pencil, and too light to read.  This
            was easily solved with a bit of gamma correction --
            though I had to mask off the photo on page 5.

            Has anyone else had similar problems?  I'd be happy
            to put up gamma-adjusted versions of those .gifs if
            there are enough other people having trouble reading
            them...

               -- SEA
--
"I felt a strong desire to howl at the moon.   |  Steve Arlow, Yorick Software
 It was such a howlable moon.  But I           |  39336 Polo Club Dr. #103,
 restrained myself."  -- Snuff (Zelazny)       |  Farmington Hills, MI  48335
   My email is backlogged; please be patient.  |  http://www.msen.com/~yorick





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 22 Aug 1996 23:24:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: Steve Arlow <yorick@conch.aa.msen.com>
Subject: Re: cranes mailed to Hiroshima

cathypl@generation.net (Cathy Palmer-Lister) writes:
>
>Hi, Steve!

Hi!  :)

>>And also a fairly well-known folksong, "Cranes over Hiroshima",
>>by Fred Small.  [...]
>>
>Is this on an album, and if so is it still available?

"Cranes Over Hiroshima" is on Fred Small's cassette _No Limit_,
from Rounder Records.  It was published in 1987, but I think I've
seen this album re-released on Compact Disc fairly recently.  The
address is:

       Rounder Records
       One Camp Street
       Cambridge, MA  02140

>Can it be sung with children, or is it too sentimental for kids?

I really couldn't tell you; I suppose it would depend on the kids
in question.  It's not a very happy story, after all.  The refrain
of the song goes:

        "Cranes over Hiroshima,
         white and red and gold.
         They flicker in the sunlight
         like a million vanished souls.
         I will fold these cranes of paper
         to a thousand, one by one,
         and I'll fly away when I'm done."

I promised to relate the count given in this song, it's 644 --
"'Til the morning her stumbling fingers can't fold anymore".  The
song ends with a repeated chorus of the words that are apparantly
inscribed at base of the monument:  "This is our cry / This is our
prayer / Peace in the world".

I saw Fred Small perform at The Ark in Ann Arbor several years
ago.  I don't recall whether he did this song then, but I did
later have the good fortune of seeing this song performed live
by the flik group "Technical Difficulties", in "three part
harmony, two parts audible."  The third part was sung/danced in
Ameslan (American Sign Language) -- it was very powerful.

  -- Steve

--
"I felt a strong desire to howl at the moon.   |  Steve Arlow, Yorick Software
 It was such a howlable moon.  But I           |  39336 Polo Club Dr. #103,
 restrained myself."  -- Snuff (Zelazny)       |  Farmington Hills, MI  48335
   My email is backlogged; please be patient.  |  http://www.msen.com/~yorick





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 00:40:22 -0300 (ADT)
From: Pat Slider <slider@ims.mariposa.ca.us>
Subject: Sorry for long message....

Sorry for the length of my last reply (on the books available at the
Internet Bookshop). Didn't think of the total length with the original
appended message. Hope I didn't jam anyone's mailbox.....Not really
something I have to worry about so I'm afraid I wasn't thinking about it.

As a reminder www.bookserve.com (U.S., Dutch, German, and Spanish titles)
also serves Europe. And now they are associated with a German Internet
bookstore:

 http://www.telebuch.de/de/index.htm

The more the merrier....Now I would really like to see a Japanese bookstore
doing this. (Perhaps I shall try to see if one has turned up since I last
looked.)

pat slider
slider@yosemite.net





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 01:11:08 -0300 (ADT)
From: mandrk@pb.net
Subject: Re: Welcome Shalom!

Shalom,

Welcome to the origami list. As a folder in Israel, are you familiar
with Rosaly Yevnin and the Israel Origami Society? If not, I can give
you the information.

Rosaly (Lillian Oppenheimer's daughter)  has complained of the lack
of paper suitable for origami in Israel too. The sculpted look of the
models in the Montroll book are achieved by "wet-folding." I think that
Nick Robinson has put information on how to do this on the B.O.S.
website. Basically, by dampening the paper a bit, you can mold the
finished model and when it dries, it retains that shape. You can get
some really great results using any thicker paper like postal wrapping
paper. You might need clothes pins or paper clips to hold your
finished work until it dries. By the way, when in a hurry. I once wet
folded a gorilla and dried him in my microwave oven (with a cup of
water for safety).

Rachel Katz
Origami - it's not just for squares!





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 03:20:07 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Lauinger,p15" <Lauinger@06.bonn02.TELEKOM400.dbp.de>
Subject: KEIN Origami-NRW-Treffen

#Mail.D# 2.00
49

Anlage(n):  0

Tut mir leid, aber ich mu~ meine Mail von gestern
korrigieren: Es findet KEIN Origami-NRW-Treffen statt.
Ich scheine alt zu werden.

Sorry

Dorisris





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 04:23:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: fatboy <fatboy@main.aquanet.co.il>
Subject: Re: Welcome Shalom!

mandrk@pb.net wrote:
>
> Shalom,
>
> Welcome to the origami list. As a folder in Israel, are you familiar
> with Rosaly Yevnin and the Israel Origami Society?

Yes I am, thank you. I was at the July meeting (I'm the _big_ Hassidic
guy).

Thanks for the wet-folding info; I'll certainly give it a try.

Shalom
fatbot@main.aquanet.co.il





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 06:11:12 -0300 (ADT)
From: "S.Blackman" <s.blackman@cranfield.ac.uk>
Subject: Availability of Diagrams

------=_NextPart_000_01BB90DA.96D91520

A number of  classic folds like the (in)famous rose keep coming up on the
list and I would really appreciate it if it were possible to have models
like this at a "Top Ten Folds" web site.

When academic papers are published, the authors rarely receive payment and
this is not the motivation for publishing. If other people want a copy of a
paper, they can use an inter-library loan and just ask for pages X-Y of the
relevant journal. They do not have to buy the whole book just to get the
paper they are really interested in. It is a pity that a similar system is
not available for origami folds.

I am very pleased when people like Marc Kirschenbaum and Maarten van Gelder
make good models available at the Origami Archives and it is so much nicer
to be able to send Cathy Palmer Lister a zip file of the Enterprise rather
than refer her to a book which is out of print.

I would very much like to be able to download: Crawford's - Three Masted
Schooner, Lang's - Cuckoo Clock, Yoshino's - Tyranosaurus Rex Skeleton,
Kawahata's - Pegasus, Wu's - When Pigs Grow Wings and Fly, Lang's -
Dragonfly, etc. and suspect that many others would feel the same. Is it the
authors or the publishers that prevent this and how would one start to get
permission to build a web site with diagrams like this?

It is nice to follow the origami list discussions but it is a pity that I
will probably never get the chance to attempt many of the models
discussed:-(

Regards

Stephen Blackman
Cranfield University, UK.
mailto: s.blackman@cranfield.ac.uk
netmeeting: s.blackman@cranfield.ac.uk
cooltalk: s.blackman@ispd15.pc.cranfield.ac.uk
------=_NextPart_000_01BB90DA.96D91520

<html><head></head><BODY bgcolor=3D"#FFFFFF"><p><font size=3D3 =
color=3D"#000000" face=3D"Times New Roman">A number of &nbsp;classic =
folds like the (in)famous rose keep coming up on the list and I would =
really appreciate it if it were possible to have models like this at a =
&quot;Top Ten Folds&quot; web site.<br><br>When academic papers are =
published, the authors rarely receive payment and this is not the =
motivation for publishing. If other people want a copy of a paper, they =
can use an inter-library loan and just ask for pages X-Y of the relevant =
journal. They do not have to buy the whole book just to get the paper =
they are really interested in. It is a pity that a similar system is not =
available for origami folds.<br><br>I am very pleased when people like =
Marc Kirschenbaum and Maarten van Gelder make good models available at =
the Origami Archives and it is so much nicer to be able to send Cathy =
Palmer Lister a zip file of the Enterprise rather than refer her to a =
book which is out of print.<br><br>I would very much like to be able to =
download: Crawford's - Three Masted Schooner, Lang's - Cuckoo Clock, =
Yoshino's - Tyranosaurus Rex Skeleton, Kawahata's - Pegasus, Wu's - When =
Pigs Grow Wings and Fly, Lang's - Dragonfly, etc. and suspect that many =
others would feel the same. Is it the authors or the publishers that =
prevent this and how would one start to get permission to build a web =
site with diagrams like this?<br><br>It is nice to follow the origami =
list discussions but it is a pity that I will probably never get the =
chance to attempt many of the models =
discussed:-(<br><br><br>Regards<br><br>Stephen Blackman<br>Cranfield =
University, UK.<br>mailto: <font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>s.blackman@cranfield.ac.uk</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>netmeeting: <font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>s.blackman@cranfield.ac.uk</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"><br>cooltalk: <font =
color=3D"#0000FF"><u>s.blackman@ispd15.pc.cranfield.ac.uk</u><font =
color=3D"#000000"></p>
</font></font></font></font></font></font></font></body></html>
------=_NextPart_000_01BB90DA.96D91520--





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.CA>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 07:00:12 -0300 (ADT)
From: Miss Emma Jane Griffiths <emmajg@cardiffcybercafe.co.UK>
Subject: Re: Copyrights, redux (was Re: Kawasaki's Rose)

Right I always though well here in the UK that as long as you weren't making
money from it, it was okay. to photocopy or scan work for friends,
assignments, whatever.  Yes if I could contact these people I would but it's
but it's not
easy.  If anyone can help me find the people to ask about copyright then
I will, sorry if I've offended anyone.

Em*
p.s. I'm 20 years old and from Wales - a few have got confused by someone
else's bad cutting & pasting of emails!

At 20:51 22/08/96 -0300, you wrote:
>On 22 Aug 96 at 12:54, Miss Emma Jane Griffiths wrote:
>
>> I had this email from Jennine
>>
>> Well it's a shame I can't put it on a web nevermind but I think
>> emailing is ok.  If anyone know the legal complications please let
>> me know.
>
>Why would you think that "emailing is OK"? The laws are a bit different in
>the UK than in the US, although now that we are all signatories to the
>Berne Convention things are a bit better in line...  The basic point is
>that the creator of a work has the *SOLE* prerogative to decide how, and
>when, and to whom copies of it made be distributed.
>
>That isn't such a hard rule, although it is often an annoying one to deal
>with. All you have to ask is "did I make a copy", and if the answer is
>yes, then "did I get the creator's permission to distribute that copy".
>If THAT answer isn't yes, then what you're doing isn't legit.
>
>In fact, if anything, your statement about emailing versus the web is
>probably 180 degrees incorrect. In emailing a copyrighted work to someone,
>you are *explicitly* transmitting a copy and that is 100% clearly not
>cricket unless you can make a case that the transmittal falls under "fair
>use". In the case of the web, you don't actually make the illegal copies,
>so it isn't so clear, quite, exactly _who_ violated the copyright laws.
>[your liability would be in having put the item on your web page: although
>you didn't make the 100s of copies that would then be floating around
>the world, you WOULD have to have made that _first_ copy and so you'll get
>nailed, anyway].
>
>Jeanine's advice is a bit skewed:
>
>> >I just thought I should warn you that scanning diagrams and mailing
>> >them to individuals is fine (it's like xeroxing a page for a friend),
>> ...
>
>Sorry, but "like xeroxing a page for a friend" doesn't fall under any
>copyright exemptions that I know of [expecially if it involves copying the
>*entire* work, as would be the case for origami diagrams]. There is a
>practical question here --- obviously, there's essentially no way to
>*catch* anyone making a single [improper] copy of a copyrighted work, and
>there's also no real way to prosecute such a thing [since the "damage"
>from the improper copy is pretty minimal]. But this is a *practical*
>aspect, not an _ethical_ one. Making one copy for a friend infringes
>*JUST* as surely as making 40,000, even if the harm and exposure and
>culpability is less.
>
>  /Bernie\
>--
>Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
>bernie@fantasyfarm.com            Pearisburg, VA
>    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--
>
>
---------------------------------------------------
             Miss Emma Jane Griffiths
      E-mail: emmajg@cardiffcybercafe.co.uk
  URL: http://www.cardiffcybercafe.co.uk/~emmajg





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 07:25:35 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Na. (NAKANISHI Ken-ichi)" <nakanish@pd.scei.sony.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Toshikazu Kawasaki Rose

I made a contact with Kawasaki-san and got his opinion.

It was written in Japanese, so shown below is my translation
including my remarks.  I sent that to Kawasaki-san for his
correction, but I've not got his reply yet.  I cannot access this
list weekend, so I've post this to the list now.  Please note
that the translation and my remarks would contain mistakes.

====
KAWASAKI Toshikazu says, then NAKANISHI Ken-ichi translates and remarks:
> Em.>I'm going to scan the instructions on how to make TK's rose.
> Em.>(From origami for the connoisseur) and put them on my web page.
>
> KASAHARA Kunihiko has the copyright of the diagram, as the
> author of "Origami for the Connoisseur".  Carbon copy (including
> scanning digitally) should be distributed under his permission.
>
> I think, as a creator of the model, "I'm glad that anyone
> distributes the procedure of folding to have many people to enjoy
> folding my creation.  But the name of the source and its author
> should be specified clearly.
>
>
> In addition, let me explain the confusion about my rose models.
> I've shown many versions of roses.
> 1. The most famous model is one which appeared on "Top Origami"
>    (Japanese edition).  This is the model called "KAWASAKI
>    rose" overseas.  But foreigners seem to call ones on "Origami
>    for the Connoisseur", the English edition of "Top Origami",
>    as "KAWASAKI rose".
> 2. But it's not the rose on "Top Origami" which I've been
>    folding to show overseas these days.  The model shown on "
>    Top Origami" was an early model.  Now I have the latest
>    model, improved to complete which satisfies me better.  It
>    was created about ten years ago.
> 3. This is the model I fold to show overseas (of course Mr.
>    Tom Hull saw) and only the photos of the completed model
>    were shown in two issues of quarterly ORU.
> 4. The diagram of the latest rose has not been open at all.
> 5. I'm writing new origami book.  It'll be the first time to
>    introduce the diagram.
====

Speaking of the copyright, one should be given permission by the
author of the diagram designer, not the model creator to distribute
copies because the law of copyright wouldn't protect the idea or
methods of folding models but the design of the diagrams.

It means that the law doesn't require the permission of the
creators when you wants to distribute diagrams which you've
drawn.  Though in the case, it'll be impolite to distribute
it without the name of the creator on it.

At least Japanese copyright law permits making the reproduction
only for owner's private use; "private" is habitually considered
for the convinience of the owner herself/himself and limited
person around her/him.  Distribution through web pages, mailing
lists, and so on, cannot considered to be "private" use.
Reproduction for friends is strictly considered illegal.  How
about British and other law?

Thus I recommend one of the followings:

1. Draw diagram by yourself using the information in "Origami for
   the Connoisseur".

2. Ask KASAHARA-san to give you permission of reproduction.  The
   book must show you how to contact with him.  In this case,
   every page should contain the name of the indication of the
   copyright.

By the way, the copyright of photographs of creations are not
for the creators but for the photographers in the same reason.
The exception is the portrait photos.  People are considered to
have the rights of their own portraits.  So the permission of
both photographer and the person who is taken pictures of is
needed to distribute them.

--
nakanish@pd.scei.sony.co.jp (NAKANISHI Ken-ichi, not Kenichi Nakanishi)
$BCf@>!w(BSony ComputerEntertainment Inc. <http://www.scei.co.jp/>





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 08:00:33 -0300 (ADT)
From: Joseph Wu <origami@planet.datt.co.jp>
Subject: Re: Toshikazu Kawasaki Rose

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Na. (NAKANISHI Ken-ichi) wrote:

> I made a contact with Kawasaki-san and got his opinion.
>
> KAWASAKI Toshikazu says, then NAKANISHI Ken-ichi translates and remarks:
> > 2. But it's not the rose on "Top Origami" which I've been
> >    folding to show overseas these days.  The model shown on "
> >    Top Origami" was an early model.  Now I have the latest
> >    model, improved to complete which satisfies me better.  It
> >    was created about ten years ago.
> > 3. This is the model I fold to show overseas (of course Mr.
> >    Tom Hull saw) and only the photos of the completed model
> >    were shown in two issues of quarterly ORU.
> > 4. The diagram of the latest rose has not been open at all.
> > 5. I'm writing new origami book.  It'll be the first time to
> >    introduce the diagram.

Not quite true. Kawasaki-san taught the rose at the Origami USA convention
in 1994, where I learned it. I taught it to Winson Chan of Vancouver, and
he has made diagrams of it.

> By the way, the copyright of photographs of creations are not
> for the creators but for the photographers in the same reason.
> The exception is the portrait photos.  People are considered to
> have the rights of their own portraits.  So the permission of
> both photographer and the person who is taken pictures of is
> needed to distribute them.

Not true in the USA. Copyright of photographs belong to the photographer,
not to the subject. As far as I understand it, of course.

          Joseph Wu           | There are no ordinary people. You have never
  origami@planet.datt.co.jp   | talked to a mere mortal. Nations, cultures,
 Webmaster, the Origami Page  | arts, civilisations--these are mortal....
http://www.datt.co.jp/Origami | But it is immortals whom we joke with, work
  Webmaster, DATT Japan Inc.  | with, marry, snub, and exploit....
    http://www.datt.co.jp     | --C.S. Lewis, "The Weight of Glory"





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:13:38 -0300 (ADT)
From: scasey@enternet.com.au (Steven Casey)
Subject: Please Help!

Hi all,

I have a problem, I have lost my most recent e-mail files :(  Could you
please help me  by sending any recent emails addressed to  me again. And is
it possible to get an archive of recent (August) emails of the list. Thanks
in advance.

all the best,

Steven Casey





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 09:53:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: Maarten van Gelder <M.J.van.Gelder@rc.rug.nl>
Subject: Re: Please Help!

m> I have a problem, I have lost my most recent e-mail files :(  Could you
m> please help me  by sending any recent emails addressed to  me again. And is
m> it possible to get an archive of recent (August) emails of the list. Thanks
m> in advance.

All email messages to this list are archived at the archive site.
Following URLs all give access to the (same) archives:

   http://www.rug.nl/rugcis/rc/ftp/origami/archives/.menu.html
   gopher://gopher.rug.nl/11/rc/ftp/origami/archives
   ftp://ftp.rug.nl/origami/archives

Maarten van Gelder,           Rekencentrum RuG,  RijksUniversiteit Groningen
M.J.van.Gelder@rc.rug.nl                         Nederland





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:08:57 -0300 (ADT)
From: Brett Askinazi <askinazi@i1.net>
Subject: Re: WaterBombs - what else?

> >>>> Ok, has anyone ever REALLY put water in a Water Bomb ?

Wow look at that a Quintuple quote ;)

Thanks from all for the reply's to this message.  I produced many a
chuckle.

Brett
askinazi@i1.net





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:30:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Shi-Yew Chen (a.k.a. Sy)" <sychen@leatherback.nist.gov>
Subject: Re: Please Help!

At 09:13 AM 8/23/96 -0300, Steven Casey wrote:
>Hi all,
>
>I have a problem, I have lost my most recent e-mail files :(  Could you
>please help me  by sending any recent emails addressed to  me again. And is
>it possible to get an archive of recent (August) emails of the list. Thanks
>in advance.

Hi,

I don't keep all those mails (especially this week?)
I don't know where the real archive goes? (Dear Maarten van Gelder?)
But you can go to ftp site - ftp://ftp.rug.nl/origami/archives to retrieve them.
I think the most recent one (one or two days ago) could be in
arc.19x/arczip.198 you may browse index first before download them.
Good luck!

|--------------------------------------------------------------------\
|  _        Shi-Yew Chen (a.k.a. Sy) <chens.mbr@asme.org>            |\
| |_| Folding http://roger.ecn.purdue.edu/~sychen/origami/pprfld.htm --\





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 10:46:36 -0300 (ADT)
From: TrekDBob@aol.com
Subject: Re: Enterprise's on the wall

Well -- not to brag or anything, but I HAVE done an "Enterprise on the Wall"
type display... (For those of you not familiar with Star Trek The Next
Generation, Captain Picard's Ready Room has a display of all the ships named
Enterprise. There is a sailing ship, an aircraft carrier, the space shuttle,
and of course, all the starships with registry number 1701...!) I had the
display at a convention that my husband and and I help to run, then used them
for my contribution to someone's Christmas Tree that year!

I used Patricia Crawford's "Three Masted Ship", Kawasaki's "Space Shuttle",
and Jeremy Shafer's "Enterprise." I am afraid I had to cut out the aircraft
carrier, and the 1701's that followed after the original starship... anyone
got a good 1701D? It drew a lot of looks at the convention, and many offers
of purchase, but since I had specifically folded it for the tree - I didn't
sell them (fool that I was) Perhaps I shoud attempt to do another one for the
show coming up in September....  :-) All in Gold foil... hmmmm

Dee
TrekDBob@aol.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 12:39:39 -0300 (ADT)
From: kevin !! <prank@leland.Stanford.EDU>
Subject: Montroll's Favorite Animals in Origami

Hi, everyone(!!)

        I just bought a new Montroll book (ISBN 0-486-29136-7, copyright
1996, and only $2.95 American) and have a few questions (uh oh).

        On the back the book (more like a newsletter, actually) it states
that "the projects include charming version of a cat, a deer, elephant,
seal, walrus, mink, bear, and five other creatures" for a total of 12
models(!!).  The problem is that there is no cat and no bear in my copy.
There _are_, however, 12 models, just no cat and no bear.  I am thinking
this is a misprint, as no pages seem to be missing, but I would
like to verify.

        John, are you on?

--Kevin





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:21:17 -0300 (ADT)
From: chall@scsn.net (Carol Hall)
Subject: Re: WaterBombs/cat toys

>As I've mentioned before, they also work great filled with catnip and
>tossed on the floor for the kitties.  I prefer to use a thicker paper
>then, and my cats will bat that around for quite a while.

Toshie's Jewel (3 piece Sonobe) is a much sturdier cat toy, especially when
folded with office-weight paper.  It is many layers thick and has an
irregular shape that is irresistible to my cat when I bowl it across the
floor.  My scientific testing reveals that models made from 3-inch squares
are the kitty-preferred size. I filled one with catnip, but my kitty ate the
entire thing in about 5 minutes.  I decided I didn't want her eating paper,
so I don't do that anymore.  Sometimes I will wad up a postage stamp size
piece of paper inside to serve as a rattle.

Incidentally, I have an informal project making these cat toys and giving
them to people who do good work for animals.  Staff at the vet's office, the
volunteers at stray rescue organizations, etc.  Started doing this when my
kitty was in the hospital for a month having radiation treatments for
cancer.  Couldn't concentrate on anything, couldn't visit her, so I folded
cat toys by the score.  It's the "Polar Bear Project" (named after my
now-healthy cat).  It is nice that when someone adopts a stray cat, they can
take a handful of toys home at the same time.

Carol Hall
chall@scsn.net





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 13:24:43 -0300 (ADT)
From: Gretchen Klotz <gren@agora.rdrop.com>
Subject: Looking for...

Greetings -

I'm trying to reach Pamela Saalbach.  She used to subscribe to this group,
but isn't indicated on the subscriber list.  Recent emails to her have
bounced.  Does anyone know where she is?  Please reply privately.  Thanks.

- Gretchen

--
gren@agora.rdrop.com         http://www.ogi.edu/~gren/





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 11:16:36 -0300 (ADT)
From: Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com
Subject: Photo permissions [Was: Re: Toshikazu Kawasaki Rose]
From: origami @ planet.datt.co.jp (Joseph Wu) @ SMTPIN
Subject: Re: Toshikazu Kawasaki Rose

On Fri, 23 Aug 1996, Na. (NAKANISHI Ken-ichi) wrote:
>> The exception is the portrait photos.  People are considered to
>> have the rights of their own portraits.  So the permission of
>> both photographer and the person who is taken pictures of is
>> needed to distribute them.

On Friday, 23 Aug 1996, Joseph Wu responded:
>Not true in the USA. Copyright of photographs belong to the photographer,
>not to the subject. As far as I understand it, of course.

 I don't know about portraits, but when we photograph models, they sign
a "model release" which, as I understand it, gives the photographer
permission to reproduce the photo without further compensation or
acknowledgement of the model. To my surprise, I recently learned that
this *can* be true of buildings also--we recently were informed (by the
photographer) that we could only get permission to reproduce his photo
of a well-known private museum building if we got a model release from
the museum because the museum wanted to keep control over how the
photos were reproduced.

Lisa
Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:04:59 -0300 (ADT)
From: "ANITA L. HAWKINS" <ahawkins@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: R. Neale's  Dragon (was:Re: Hello!)

On Tue, 20 Aug 1996, Charles Knuffke wrote:
(lots of nice comments snipped
> The only location I know of for the Neale Dragon is J. Ansill's "Mythical
> Beings". This book has been mentioned several times in the last week, and
> unfortunately I believe it's now out of print. Neale's Dragon is one of the
> easier models in the book, and is fantastic. I've been told that many other
> dragons owe there existance to this early design. Unfortunately the book
> suffers from it's layout (small) and hard to read diagrams.

If  Jay's  book is (*sniff*) truly out of print, here's a way to get
hardcopy of the diagrams, a photo of the dragon and half a dozen other
mythical beings, an interview with Jay (though more on his music than on
his folding).

Issue #55 (Dec '94/Jan'95) of Dirty Linen  magazine (dedicated to folk,
traditional, and world music - a wonderfully quirky 'zine!), interview
pages 15-18, diagrams page  19. Small layout and hard to read, yes, but
workable for the already diagram-knowledgable. Otherwise, pretty tricky
(see the cartoon bottom of page 4)! Back issues available at cover price,
$3.50 US, $5.00 Canadian, 10,000  rutabagas Moosylvanian. Shippinng $1.50
if one item. Contact them at

P.O. Box 66600
Baltimore, MD 21239-6600
email 74020.47@compuserve.com

Worth the price just for the candid shot of Jay at age 9, folding in the
bathroom (the only place where lights could stay on at night), sitting on
the necessary... :)

A last thought - there is also an address there for getting the CDs or
books (Mythical Beings and LIfestyle Origami) directly from Jay, that
might be worth a try.

Debussy Fields Music
c/o Jay Ansill
P.O.Box 35
New Hope, PA 18938

Hope this helps someone!

Anita
Havre de Grace, Maryland





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 16:50:44 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@homelink.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Netscape Cool Talk

Miss Emma Jane Griffiths <emmajg@cardiffcybercafe.co.uk> sez

>It comes with Netscape 3

That doesn't surprise me - much as I enjoy Netscape, I'm wary of yet
another plug-in that only works (presumably) with Netscape. As an
amateur web page designer, I have to accept their are other browsers out
there....

all the best,

Nick Robinson
email           nick@homelink.demon.co.uk
homepage        http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/nick
BOS homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk/bos/
RPM homepage    http://www.rpmrecords.co.uk





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:03:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: Abe Edlin <aedlin@closerlook.com>
Subject: I have mised the boat...

A few days ago I asked where the plans for the three masted ship was.
and the good people of this list informed be that it was in _Creating
Origami_ by J.C. Nolan. Unfortuanly, It seems that it is out of print.
If there is anyone in the Chicago area who can let me peek into there
copy of this rare and hidden book? Write me at aedlin@closerlook.com and
make me a miracle today.

Abe Edlin





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:41:42 -0300 (ADT)
From: Brett Askinazi <askinazi@i1.net>
Subject: Re: I have mised the boat...

Patricia Crawford ship is also in Harbins "Origami: A Step by Step Guide".
I almost always get Harbin books mixed up for all the reprintings so
someone back me up ?

----------
> From: Abe Edlin <aedlin@closerlook.com>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <origami-l@nstn.ca>
> Subject: I have mised the boat...
> Date: Friday, August 23, 1996 3:03 PM
>
> A few days ago I asked where the plans for the three masted ship was.
> and the good people of this list informed be that it was in _Creating
> Origami_ by J.C. Nolan. Unfortuanly, It seems that it is out of print.
> If there is anyone in the Chicago area who can let me peek into there
> copy of this rare and hidden book? Write me at aedlin@closerlook.com and
> make me a miracle today.
>
> Abe Edlin





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:41:58 -0300 (ADT)
From: Brett Askinazi <askinazi@i1.net>
Subject: Re: I have mised the boat...

Oh yeah The Harbin book is out of print too.  BUT, it is available at many
libraries that I have visited, Unlike the Nolan book, which I have never
seen.

Brett
askinazi@i1.net

----------
> From: Abe Edlin <aedlin@closerlook.com>
> To: Multiple recipients of list <origami-l@nstn.ca>
> Subject: I have mised the boat...
> Date: Friday, August 23, 1996 3:03 PM
>
> A few days ago I asked where the plans for the three masted ship was.
> and the good people of this list informed be that it was in _Creating
> Origami_ by J.C. Nolan. Unfortuanly, It seems that it is out of print.
> If there is anyone in the Chicago area who can let me peek into there
> copy of this rare and hidden book? Write me at aedlin@closerlook.com and
> make me a miracle today.
>
> Abe Edlin





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 23 Aug 1996 17:51:25 -0300 (ADT)
From: Rjlang@aol.com
Subject: Re: Availability of Diagrams

Stephen Blackman said:

>>>>
When academic papers are published, the authors rarely receive payment and
this is not the motivation for publishing. If other people want a copy of a
paper, they can use an inter-library loan and just ask for pages X-Y of the
relevant journal. They do not have to buy the whole book just to get the
paper they are really interested in. It is a pity that a similar system is
not available for origami folds.
<<<<

But a similar system IS available for origami folds -- you get an
inter-library loan of the book itself.

You can also have a library photocopy academic journal articles for you, but
there is a fee for this, and that fee goes back to the copyright holder of
the article (which, by the way, is usually the journal, not the author, in
academia). However, comparisons to academic journals are shaky at best:
origami models are not (usually) academic papers; and they are usually
published in books, not journals.

>>>>
..it is so much nicer to be able to send...a zip file...rather than refer
[someone] to a book which is out of print...I would very much like to be able
to download [references added by RJL]:

  Crawford's - Three Masted Schooner [Nolan's Creating Origami]
  Lang's - Cuckoo Clock [Lang's Complete Book of Origami]
  Yoshino's - Tyranosaurus Rex Skeleton [Yoshino's Skeleton of..]
  Kawahata's - Pegasus [Kawahata's Fantasy Origami]
  Wu's - When Pigs Grow Wings and Fly [??]
  Lang's - Dragonfly [Lang's Origami Insects]

etc. and suspect that many others would feel the same.
<<<<

Of the models listed, all but Wu's winged pig are in books that _are_ still
in print. And considering that the Dover books, at least, cost only US$8-10,
and _all_ of these books are available from OUSA (and perhaps BOS Supplies?),
and of this paltry price the author who slaved over the diagrams gets
_peanuts_ at best, it seems a bit, shall we say, cheap, to complain that you
can't get them for free at your desk.

> Is it the authors or the publishers that prevent this...?

It's a joint conspiracy. The author, having spent 1-2 years drawing diagrams
to fill a book (and sometimes, copyediting, laying it out, proofing, shooting
photos, stripping them in, and generating films for the plates, as well),
wants to see his book widely distributed (and incidentally, get a bit of
financial compensation that ultimately works out to about 5 cents per hour)
and assigns certain rights to the publisher in order to make this happen. The
publishers, wanting to recoup their investment in printing, advertising,
distribution, and sundries, want to sell a lot of books. Free distribution of
the contents of the book is likely to diminish the prospects of either one
happening.

That said, I fully appreciate (and share in) your frustration with books that
are out of print. However, even then there's hope, as Dover has a history of
reprinting good out-of-print origami books (watch for the Palacios/Cerceda
classic, Fascinating Paperfolding [nee Fascinante Papiroflexia], with a new
foreword by Peter Engel, coming soon).

Robert J. Lang
rjlang@aol.com
