




Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 15:56:49 -0300 (ADT)
From: John Smith <jon.pure@paston.co.uk>
Subject: Re: origami card

At 20:09 31/05/96 -0300, you wrote:
>>>  I received the neatest note card from a friend. It was
>    just a piece of paper that was folded so that it tucked
>    itself in and didn't require an evelope to be mailed. I
>    would like to send her back something similar. Is there
>    origami books available that have stationery projects
>    or self mailer projects?
>
>   I just saw this on a service.
>   I havve the same question! Where could I find a pic &/or
>directions of this kind of card

John Cunliffe in England formed the Envelope and Letterfold Association  in
1988. He now has many hundred letter and envelope folds in his collection.
However no group has yet been formed in the USA.

Four editions of ELFA folds have been published in total I suppose about 150
or more of the best folds.

I am not sure whether I can give John's address over Origami-l, but if you
wish i will ask him if I can let you have it directly.

John Smith
Norwich
England
e-mail  jon.pure@paston.co.uk





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 16:11:13 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Origami USA Magazine

More in line with the original message:

The OUSA magaizine is mainly about activities, events,
affiliate groups, etc., with some articles about those, and
occasionally about aspects of origami. While it does contain
diagrams in each issue, they are limited in number, and
usually no more than intermediate. If its diagrams you're
after, the OUSA source is the Annual Convention Volumes,
also known as Models by Members. Back issues are available
from the OUSA supply center, and they run about $25 ea.
These books are only models, and usually include several
complex models by Lang, et al. of the 200+ step variety that
are sufficient to satify the most masochistic folder.  :-)
Contributors are international, not just USA, though seldom
from Japan and only occasionally UK, as both have there own
large societies with publication programs.

OUSA members get a 10% discount on orders from the supply center.

--valerie
Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 16:12:48 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Origami USA Magazine

<< six weeks and waiting>>

I know what you mean; even allowing for the fact that OUSA
folks are tied up in pre-convention activity, its pretty
frustrating. If I don't keep a copy of my order, I forget
what was on it and end up with 2 of something! At least they
finally take credit cards; I was perpetually with either a
credit or debit as a result of some backorder or price change...

Won't it be wonderful when/if OUSA **finally** gets a WEB site
of their own with the supply center on line? I've suggested
a members-only section for early notices of new books, special
events, etc. as a why to add even more value to membership
for those of us who aren't likely to make it to NY more than
once or twice a lifetime...
I also suggested (more than once) that they get busy and
reserve a domain name, but have never had any response on any
of this. Sigh.

--valerie
Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 16:14:20 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Time & relative dimension in Origami

<<Not if you use paper stolen from the TARDIS ;)
>>

Nick, are you admitting to practicing origami in
a phonebox?

--valerie





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 16:34:00 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jack.Thomas.Weres@att.com
Subject: Noah's Ark

with 6 consecutive days of rain
i've received the command to build an Ark
well
    at least Noah's Ark out of paper

are there any Noah's Ark models out there???
or any creative designers wishing to approach a new design???

i know that there are plenty of boats out there
but are there any that would look like Noah's Ark
or what most bible story or general pictures envision it to look like

i.e. something like this

                _________________
                |             |
       \---------|-------------|---------/
        \                               /
         \                             /
          \___________________________/

i wonder how difficult it is for this to be a 3D fold???

  /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-///plieur de papier\\\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
 /=-= jack thomas weres                       jtweres@psp.ih.att.com =-=\
/=======================\\\================///===========================\
"Let Go and Let Fold"                               "One Crease At A Time"





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 17:32:01 -0300 (ADT)
From: Vincent & Veronique <osele@worldnet.fr>
Subject: Socket fold

Hello,

I try to add new base fold on my Web page.
I have done the Montrol eagle two week ago, and I saw a fold that I
have not mentioned. It's the socket fold (pli chaussette en
francais).
I try to find a simple case of this fold.

Do you know this? And more great, do you have a diagram a simple
socket fold? If yes send me by EMail directly.

Vincent
 _______                                                     _____
|       | Osele Vincent                   Membre du MFPP    /|    |
|       | osele@worldnet.fr                                /_|    |
|       | http://www.worldnet.fr/~osele/origami.htm       |       |
|_______| -----------------> ORIGAMI -------------------> |_______|





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 18:25:19 -0300 (ADT)
From: DLister891@aol.com
Subject: Re: origami card

Dear Jennifer

I don't know about folders made from card, but the following information may
be of help, Some of the envelopes and letterfolds could certainly be made
from card.

The subject of envelopes and self-mailers (letter folds) is quite enormous
and has become a separate branch of Origami. Sadly, as far as I know, it's
not on the Internet.

You should get in touch with the Envelope and Letterfold Association
("ELFA"), but
so far as I know, there's not yet any contact in North America.

The  International Organiser is;

John Cunliffe,
17, Regents Park Road,
London, NW1  7TL,.
England.

Telephone: +44 - 171 - 485 - 7239.

Three booklets (Similar to B.O.S. booklets) have so far been published and
may be bought from John.They are full of useful, ornamental and quirkish
envelopes and letterfolds. I'm afraid you'll have to use snail-mail, but you
could hasten the process by telephoning him. I know he'll be pleased to hear
from you. Incidentally, associate membership of ELFA is free.

David Lister,
Grimsby, England.





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 19:02:47 -0300 (ADT)
From: Gretchen Klotz <gren@agora.rdrop.com>
Subject: Netiquette, Opinions and Threads (was Re: paying or giving?)

On Thu, 30 May 1996, Nick Robinson publicly posted a (deficient) reply to
a question I had asked him in private email, including parts of my message
to him (without permission).  This has now spun into the (irrelevant)
grammar thread.  Nick wrote:

> I wouldn't recognise a preposition if one crawled up my leg - grammer :)
> was never my strong point. Come to think of it, I haven't many strong
> points!

I might agree with you now, Nick.  I only teased you about the preposition
because you have previously blasted Americans for poor grammar.

I asked you PRIVATELY what the BOS policy on selling origami models was.
For someone so concerned about ethics, I am surprised that you seem to
need a reminder to ask permission to publicly post a piece of private
email, however benign it may seem.  If you simply wanted to tell the world
what the BOS policy is, you could have done so without quoting my message.
But since you didn't include the (probably nonexistent) BOS policy, you
didn't tell us anything new.  Did the entire list really need another dose
of your opinions?  I certainly didn't.  My *major* question about BOS
policy remains unanswered and the *minor* point about grammar has started
an entirely unrelated thread here.  I am extremely tired of non-origami-
related material showing up on this list, and am trying not to contribute
in that manner anymore.  I do not wish to be responsible for initiating
off-topic threads, directly or indirectly.  I am responding publicly so
that others will understand what my intentions were and what you have done.

> Have I gone over the top again? Sorry ;(
[...]
> ***Origami is Sharing, not Selling***

Every time you post.  I don't think there is anyone on this list who fails
to grasp your point of view.  Indeed, most of us feel the same, and the
sanctimoniousness is unnecessary.

- Gretchen, with sincere apologies to those who feel this is another
unecessary off-topic message

--
gren@agora.rdrop.com         http://www.ogi.edu/~gren/





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 20:19:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Noah's Ark

The traditional Chinese offering boat out of large heavy
paper, would do for a good start. It's sort of ark-like,
with a square "well" in the middle. Adding a Sullivan
Castle module to the "well" would make a cabin, and it
would be easy to come up with a triangular roof for the
cabin...

Or did you have your heart set on a one sheet ARK?  :-)

--valerie
Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 21:22:39 -0300 (ADT)
From: "BOB T. LYNCH" <blynch@du.edu>
Subject: Alex Batemans page

I got the same forbidden message when I tried to get to Alex's new address.

dp
ooppp

Dee





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 21:43:50 -0300 (ADT)
From: "BOB T. LYNCH" <blynch@du.edu>
Subject: three legged offering thing

Sometime ago someone posted asking whether or not there had ever been a three
legged offering what-cha-ma-call-it (sanbo?). Well, whilst perusing a BOS
booklet of Phillip Shen folds, I found a three legged "Chinese Ding". It is made
with triangular paper and it looks like a cup with three legs. It is in the
BOS booklet Number 18, "Phillip Shen: Selected Geometric Paper Folds." Paul
Jackson is listed as author.

Apologies if I am repeating information, and if I'm not if anyone wants
FURTHER info - write!

Dee

blynch@du.edu





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 21:47:15 -0300 (ADT)
From: "MARGARET M. BARBER" <mbarber@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Re: origami card

I bought a book at the OUSA convention last year called _For Your Eyes
Only: 13 Ways to Fold Notes_ by Florence Temko.  This is a paperback book
published by Willowisp Press.  ISBN 0-87406-737-5.  The models are in the
easy to intermediate range.

Peg Berber
mbarber@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 21:53:45 -0300 (ADT)
From: Laurie Bisman <lbisman@sirranet.co.nz>
Subject: RE: Noah's Ark

I have a very old 2D Noahs ark model by Max Hulme - could hunt out the drawings
     if you wish...

----------
From:   Jack.Thomas.Weres@att.com[SMTP:Jack.Thomas.Weres@att.com]
Sent:   Sunday, 2 June 1996 04:35
To:     Multiple recipients of list
Subject:        Noah's Ark

with 6 consecutive days of rain
i've received the command to build an Ark
well
    at least Noah's Ark out of paper

are there any Noah's Ark models out there???
or any creative designers wishing to approach a new design???

i know that there are plenty of boats out there
but are there any that would look like Noah's Ark
or what most bible story or general pictures envision it to look like

i.e. something like this

                _________________
                |             |
       \---------|-------------|---------/
        \                               /
         \                             /
          \___________________________/

i wonder how difficult it is for this to be a 3D fold???

  /-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-///plieur de papier\\\-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-\
 /=-= jack thomas weres                       jtweres@psp.ih.att.com =-=\
/=======================\\\================///===========================\
"Let Go and Let Fold"                               "One Crease At A Time"





Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 21:53:33 -0300 (ADT)
From: Laurie Bisman <lbisman@sirranet.co.nz>
Subject: RE: Time & relative dimension in Origami

A 'Police' phone box yet...

<<Not if you use paper stolen from the TARDIS ;)
>>

Nick, are you admitting to practicing origami in
a phonebox?





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 22:16:05 -0300 (ADT)
From: Douglas Tucker <dhtucker@spdmail.spd.dsccc.com>
Subject: Re: prepositions (non-origami content)

Pat Slider <slider@ims.mariposa.ca.us> wrote:

>>>Why, Nick, a sentence that ends in a preposition.  I expected more from
>>>your superior British grammar. ;-)
>
>Just had to respond....the English grammar rule of not ending a sentence
>with a preposition dates from when grammars were based on Latin grammars.
>These days, most modern linguists have tossed this one out the window. Only
>the die-hard strict grammarians cling to it. Prepositions at the end of
>sentences are natural in English, especially in questions. If you try to
>avoid them, you often wind up with some strange, awkward sentences.
>
>For example:
>
>        "Which way is up?"
>        "What are you asking for?"

When chided for this grammatical faux pas, Winston Churchill responded:

        "That is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put!"

My favorite snappy comeback!  :-)
--
Doug Tucker, aka dhtucker@spd.dsccc.com (DSC Communications Corporation)
Opinions expressed are mine, not DSC's -- unless they become profitable





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 1 Jun 1996 22:47:09 -0300 (ADT)
From: Pat Slider <slider@ims.mariposa.ca.us>
Subject: Re: origami card

At 09:47 PM 6/1/96 -0300, you wrote:
>I bought a book at the OUSA convention last year called _For Your Eyes
>Only: 13 Ways to Fold Notes_ by Florence Temko.  This is a paperback book
>published by Willowisp Press.  ISBN 0-87406-737-5.  The models are in the
>easy to intermediate range.
>
>Peg Berber
>mbarber@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu
>
>

This book was listed in the last copy of OUSA's newsletter for $2.50....so I
guess you can buy it from the Source now too.

On the back of the same "Paper" is a short article saying that V'Ann
Cornelius and Gay Merrill Gross are organizing an exhibit of origami
envelopes and letterfolds for this upcoming convention. The submission
deadline was today.

Does this mean that there will be a lot of letterfold models in the '96
convention annual?

pat slider.





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 01:31:32 -0300 (ADT)
From: Steve Woodmansee <stevew@empnet.com>
Subject: Re: prepositions (non-origami content)

At 03:14 PM 5/31/96 -0300, you wrote:
>
>>>Why, Nick, a sentence that ends in a preposition.  I expected more from
>>>your superior British grammar. ;-)
>
>Just had to respond....the English grammar rule of not ending a sentence
>with a preposition dates from when grammars were based on Latin grammars.
>These days, most modern linguists have tossed this one out the window. Only
>the die-hard strict grammarians cling to it. Prepositions at the end of
>sentences are natural in English, especially in questions. If you try to
>avoid them, you often wind up with some strange, awkward sentences.
>
>For example:
>
>        "Which way is up?"
>        "What are you asking for?"
>
>
>Well, I guess this was an unsolicited diatribe in response to an idle
>comment....Someone must have pushed a button ;->. My apologies.
>
>pat slider
>
Hope you'll forgive me for adding this little nugget to this sidebar:  It is
primarily a U.S. joke, but the point survives regardless of your background.

A Northern woman and a Southern woman meet at a party.  The Southern woman,
attempting to be hospitable, asks the Northern woman, "Where are y'all
from?"  To which the arrogant Northern woman replies "I'm *from*
(sarcastically spoken) someplace where we don't end our sentences with
prepositions."  Without missing a beat the proud Southerner replies, "Well
then where are y'all from, Bitch?"

Please forgive the language, but you must admit it was pertinent!

Steve Woodmansee , Bend Oregon
USA
(Stevew@empnet.com)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 12:07:02 -0300 (ADT)
From: VickyAV@aol.com
Subject: RE>Re- Origami USA Magazine

Attn: origami-l@nstn.ca
SentBy: Victoria Avery

Date    6/1/96
Subject RE>Re- Origami USA Magazine
From    Victoria Avery

RE>Re: Origami USA Magazine
Valerie Vann wrote:
>Won't it be wonderful when/if OUSA **finally** gets a WEB site
>of their own with the supply center on line? I've suggested
>a members-only section for early notices of new books, special
>events, etc. as a why to add even more value to membership
>for those of us who aren't likely to make it to NY more than
>once or twice a lifetime...
>I also suggested (more than once) that they get busy and
>reserve a domain name, but have never had any response on any
>of this.

We all find some benefit from belonging to OUSA and it sounds like you have
some great suggestions.  May I suggest that you consider "volunteering" to
establish a web site or even find someone who can do it for them?  Perhaps
offer to do the research on domain names for OUSA?  Dare I paraphrase JFK
"ask not what OUSA can do for you, but what can you do for OUSA".
After all, it is OUR organization and I'm always impressed with the fact that
volunteers are responsible for where it is today.

vicky mihara avery
vicky@infoarch.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 13:44:38 -0300 (ADT)
From: Bren Riesinger <fascfold@fascinating-folds.com>
Subject: Re: Origami Animals (Lang)

Does anyone have any information on who the publisher is?
Thanks -
Bren

At 07:02 AM 5/30/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Jennifer.Campbell writes:
>
>> In response to my quest for a cockatiel model, Brett mentioned the cockatoo
>> in Lang's "Origami Animals". What is the scoop on this book? Is it out of
>(snip)
>
>I saw this book recently in a Kinokunia (sp?) bookstore. I believe it's a
>hardcover.
>
>John Marcolina
>jmarcolina@strata.com
>
>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - -
Fascinating Folds
Rediscover the ancient craft of Origami, Japanese paper-folding, with
our extensive line of Origami papers and books.
http://www.fascinating-folds.com/paper





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 14:37:00 -0300 (ADT)
From: Charles Knuffke <knuffke@sirius.com>
Subject: Re: Origami Animals (Lang)

>Does anyone have any information on who the publisher is?
>Thanks -
>Bren
>
>>
>> In response to my quest for a cockatiel model, Brett mentioned the cockatoo
>> in Lang's "Origami Animals". What is the scoop on this book? Is it out of
>> print

Here's the info from the OriIndex database of books...

Title: Origami Animals
Author: Robert Lang
Publisher: Crescent Books, Avenel, N.J.1992
Copywrite: Quintet Publishing LTD, 1992
IBSN: 0-517-07320-X
Type: Hardbound
Pages: 111
Language: English
Models: 41 animals
Level of Difficalty: S-H

Bren, if you'ld like a copy of the entire database (Models and Books),
check out the OriIndex at ftp://ftp.rug.nl/origami/oriindex/ and best of
luck contacting the publishers of this book!

Regards,

Charles Knuffke

*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*
Charles Knuffke       "Amen the Thunderbolt in the Dark Void"
153 Divisadero                                  -Jack Kerouac
San Francisco CA 94104
mailto://knuffke@sirius.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 15:38:56 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: OrigamiUSA Web site/NET etc

Vicky writes:

<< May I suggest that you consider "volunteering" etc>>

First, on both occasions when I proffered my suggestions, they
were in response to a direct, personal solicitation of suggestions.
I received neither a reply nor acknowledgement either time, which
didn't exactly encourage me to further effort.

2. Registering a domain name, while it does now cost a few
bucks ($50-100/yr, I forget which), is not something someone
else can do for you. It is however easy to do, and can be done
even if you don't yet have an Internet presence to apply it to.
The MAIN point is (cf. the recent discussion on "origami.com"),
there are a limited number of names, and if you want something
close to your company or organization name, you need to get
with it, or someone else will already have it.

3. An Internet presence and Web site supplying more than the
name/address/phone (already provided kindly in several locations
on OUSA's behalf, e.g. Joseph's Wu's Page) requires some non-
trivial hardware and software, i.e. a Web Server
with a highspeed dedicated 'Net connection.

Neither I nor anyone I can speak for can offer to provide that.
I work fulltime (make that 2.5 time) for a small private business,
and do not have the free access to university and large commercial
computer sites many folks seem to be blessed with.

However, since OUSA is a non-profit educational organization,
it isn't a stretch to assume that one could be found in the NY
area, and if it were with a commercial IP provider, I would be
happy to up my annual membership status further to help pay for
it; I've offered to do this in the past, as well as contribute
to any necessary computer acquisition costs involved in getting
OUSA online. They could perhaps share hardware with their
landlord (The Museum where OUSA is located) and/or the Fashion
Institute (where conventions are held), both of which could
probably use a Web site, if they don't already have one.

5. I'm on the West Coast. OUSA is in New York.
   (Res ipsa loquiter)

6. <<I'm always impressed with the fact that
volunteers are responsible for where it is today.>>
    Me too. I assume you're one of them.

Regards,
Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 16:49:33 -0300 (ADT)
From: Steve Arlow <yorick@conch.aa.msen.com>
Subject: Re: OrigamiUSA Web site/NET etc

Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com> writesL
>
>  [...]
>2. Registering a domain name, while it does now cost a few
>bucks ($50-100/yr, I forget which), is not something someone
>else can do for you. It is however easy to do, and can be done
>even if you don't yet have an Internet presence to apply it to.

$50/yr., and any ISP can do it for you for a small additional
fee.  You need not yet have your own site (witness my new email
address: yorick@yorick.com).

>The MAIN point is (cf. the recent discussion on "origami.com"),
>there are a limited number of names, and if you want something
>close to your company or organization name, you need to get
>with it, or someone else will already have it.

FWIW, "origami.org", "ousa.com", and "ousa.org" have not been
taken by anyone yet...

  -- Steve Arlow <yorick@yorick.com>

--
 "Your dog stuffs his tongue up your nose.   |  Steve Arlow, Yorick Software
  It's a good omen.  You press on."          |  39336 Polo Club Dr. #103,
     -- Bernie E. Mireault, in _The JAM..._  |  Farmington Hills, MI  48335
            (.sig contest has been won)      |  http://www.msen.com/~yorick





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 18:33:16 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@homelink.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Netiquette, Opinions and Threads

Gretchen Klotz <gren@agora.rdrop.com> sez

> I only teased you about the preposition because you have previously
> blasted Americans for poor grammar.

Perhaps I don't use enough smiley's :) :)

>I asked you PRIVATELY what the BOS policy on selling origami models was.

Yes, but the reply seemed pertinent (on topic etc.) to the list, so I
made it public. As one of the few BOS council members on the list, I
tried to sum up our (not just my) unwritten policy. I didn't think there
was anything in it that ought to have been kept private?

>My *major* question about BOS policy remains unanswered

Well I answered it to the best of my ability & knowledge.

>I am extremely tired of non-origami-related material

IN contrast, I have no problem with it, in moderation. The odd bit of
humour is less problem than the over-quoting that goes on...

>I don't think there is anyone on this list who fails
>to grasp your point of view.

Pardon me for having an opinion & expressing it! I'm glad my points are
grasped, sanctimonious or not. The group represents a diverse range of
opinions and Usenet is surely a place for people to jump on soapboxes if
they wish, knowing full well there are flamers ready to target them.

Have a nice day,

Nick Robinson
nick@homelink.demon.co.uk

***Australian Origami is Shearing***





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 18:35:02 -0300 (ADT)
From: Pamela Graben <pgraben@umich.edu>
Subject: Emotions in paper

Has anyone attempted to use models for their emotional value?  I mean,
Obviously the traditional crane and frog have their meanings, and a phoenix
could mean something such as: giving it to someone who has just conquered
something difficult and is about to start something brand new.
    Does anyone have ideas about other emotions, such as sorrow, anger,
frustration, happiness (flowers?), pride, etc.
        No, I'm not trying to make greeting cards, just every now and again
it seems I want to fold something for someone that has a specific meaning to
it, without saying much in writing.
        I also realize that usually a folding for soemone is very specific
to their personality and being, but i wanted to tangle directive giving in
another angle.  :)

!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-
!-!-!-!-!

Pamela Graben,              We and the world, see, we got
Namir Gharaibeh                     this understanding!

           pgraben@umich.edu





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 19:00:57 -0300 (ADT)
From: Steve Arlow <yorick@conch.aa.msen.com>
Subject: Re: Netiquette, Opinions and Threads

Nick Robinson <nick@homelink.demon.co.uk> writes:
>Gretchen Klotz <gren@agora.rdrop.com> sez
>
>>I asked you PRIVATELY what the BOS policy on selling origami models was.
>
>Yes, but the reply seemed pertinent (on topic etc.) to the list, so I
>made it public. As one of the few BOS council members on the list, I
>tried to sum up our (not just my) unwritten policy. I didn't think there
>was anything in it that ought to have been kept private?

The judgement isn't yours to make.  Ask for permission first.

>>I am extremely tired of non-origami-related material
>
>IN contrast, I have no problem with it, in moderation. The odd bit of
>humour is less problem than the over-quoting that goes on...

In a list with this much traffic, the off-topic material
is a bigger problem.  I personally know at least half a
dozen people who have dropped this list because of the
extremely high traffic.  "Over-quoting" is actually fairly
appropriate in a mailing list where the list-server
software fails to preserve the "In-Reply-To: " headers;
otherwise it becomes even more difficult than it already
is to follow a thread.  Remember that some of us have a
life, and a lot of important uses for email, outside of
ORIGAMI-L.

>>I don't think there is anyone on this list who fails
>>to grasp your point of view.

As long as you two insist on having a flamewar, over
*netiquette* of all things, I may as well point out to
Gretchen that flaming someone for a one-line .sig is
not exactly good netiquette, either.  (Perhaps I should
send you a copy of Kibo's giant .sig file to give you a
little perspective?)

>Pardon me for having an opinion & expressing it! I'm glad my points are
>grasped, sanctimonious or not. The group represents a diverse range of
>opinions and Usenet is surely a place for people to jump on soapboxes if
>they wish, knowing full well there are flamers ready to target them.

How true!  Since this isn't Usenet, why don't you take
this flamewar there -- or at least to Altnet.  I think
that alt.arts.origami could benefit from even this kind
of traffic.

>Have a nice day,

Better closing, Nick.  A parting of "Cheers," always reads
(to me at least) as a euphemism for "F*ck you," no matter
who writes it.

Now why don't you both take this argument to private email
or, as Nick suggests, to Usenet.

--
 "Your dog stuffs his tongue up your nose.   |  Steve Arlow, Yorick Software
  It's a good omen.  You press on."          |  39336 Polo Club Dr. #103,
     -- Bernie E. Mireault, in _The JAM..._  |  Farmington Hills, MI  48335
            (.sig contest has been won)      |  http://www.msen.com/~yorick





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 19:33:10 -0300 (ADT)
From: marckrsh@nyc.pipeline.com (Marc Kirschenbaum)
Subject: Re: OrigamiUSA Web site/NET etc

I am happy to announce that Origami USA will be reserving a domain name for
themselves (it should be official in the next few weeks.  This does not
mean we will have a website, email address, ect. at that time, but it is a
start. We are working on bringing such things like the supplies list online
to be a reality. For now you will have to settle for the small site
attached to Yusri's page, and the knowledge that most of the board members
are online.I should also appologise to people such as Valerie who might
have been put off by Origami USA's lack of responsiveness. An organized
committee dedicated towrds getting us online has only recently been formed,
so anything pertaining to that a few months ago probably got lost in the
shuffle.

Marc





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 19:37:58 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: New Web Page

While my main Web Page is still on AmericaOnLine, I have
taken advantage of the small space Compuserve offers and
put up a page. It is mainly a link to my big page on AOL,
but I did have some new color photos of the winged twist
unit model and one of my variations on the Omega Star.

The URL for the new compuserve page:

http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/valerie_vann

--valerie
Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com
valerivann@aol.com
http:/users.aol.com/valerivann/index.html
[My main Modular Origami Home Page]
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/valerie_vann





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 20:16:08 -0300 (ADT)
From: unhinged@yrkpa.kias.com
Subject: Re: OrigamiUSA Web site/NET etc

The registered domain name is more of a marketing item than a necessity.
Local providers in my area offer personal (and I assume non-profit
month, 3 megabytes (more than sufficient).  Since the internet is global,
and geographically dispersed resources can be treated as though they were
local, OUSA could theoretically lease space anywhere on the net.  It
would not be too much of a stretch to FTP to a site to put up web
information.  People do it all of the time.

All that is required is a PC with Windows (or a Mac, though PC's are
cheaper), and some freeware.  Someone could "donate" their time to scan
photos, as the time constraint isn't super-immediate.  As it is now, the
OUSA newsletter is only published four times a year.  IT's not as though
OUSA would have to "snail mail" any of its page updates.

It could be done on a shoestring budget.

Rob





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 20:20:22 -0300 (ADT)
From: unhinged@yrkpa.kias.com
Subject: Re: OrigamiUSA Web site/NET etc

I would be more than happy to key in the supplies list in HTML form,
marked up appropriately.  I could then e-mail the code or FTP it
somewhere.  A basic web page could be built in a long weekend day.

Rob

On Sun, 2 Jun 1996, Marc Kirschenbaum wrote:

> I am happy to announce that Origami USA will be reserving a domain name for
> themselves (it should be official in the next few weeks.  This does not
> mean we will have a website, email address, ect. at that time, but it is a
> start. We are working on bringing such things like the supplies list online
> to be a reality. For now you will have to settle for the small site
> attached to Yusri's page, and the knowledge that most of the board members
> are online.I should also appologise to people such as Valerie who might
> have been put off by Origami USA's lack of responsiveness. An organized
> committee dedicated towrds getting us online has only recently been formed,
> so anything pertaining to that a few months ago probably got lost in the
> shuffle.
>
> Marc





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 21:39:50 -0300 (ADT)
From: terryh@lamg.com (Terry Hall)
Subject: Re: Solid?

This note is for Randy Nauert, but I do not have his e-mail address

Hi Randy,

Thanks for the note. I hate to admit this but I accidently erased the file
when I was cleaning up my save basket, so I no longer have it. BTW I have a
Macintosh and have experienced some difficulty when downloading files and
trying to open them. Are you able to e-mail the application again? I would
appreciate you doing so and any suggestions on how I could successfully
download and open it. Sorry for the screwup. Thanks for thinking of sending
the file to me. This is also embarrassing to ask, but who are you, have we
met? Your name seems familiar to me but I can't place you in my feeble brain.

Terry Hall
terryh@lamg.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 21:43:28 -0300 (ADT)
From: mandrk@pb.net
Subject: Re: Emotions in paper

> Date:          Sun, 2 Jun 1996 18:35:06 -0300 (ADT)
> Reply-to:      origami-l@nstn.ca
> From:          Pamela Graben <pgraben@umich.edu>
> To:            Multiple recipients of list <origami-l@nstn.ca>
> Subject:       Emotions in paper

> Has anyone attempted to use models for their emotional value?  I mean,
> Obviously the traditional crane and frog have their meanings, and a phoenix
> could mean something such as: giving it to someone who has just conquered
> something difficult and is about to start something brand new.
>     Does anyone have ideas about other emotions, such as sorrow, anger,
> frustration, happiness (flowers?), pride, etc.
>         No, I'm not trying to make greeting cards, just every now and again
> it seems I want to fold something for someone that has a specific meaning to
> it, without saying much in writing.
>         I also realize that usually a folding for soemone is very specific
> to their personality and being, but i wanted to tangle directive giving in
> another angle.  :)
>
> !-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-
> !-!-!-!-!
>
> Pamela Graben,              We and the world, see, we got
> Namir Gharaibeh                     this understanding!
>
>          pgraben@umich.edu
>
> !-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-
> !-!-!-!-!
How about:
  The owl for wisdom
  The butterfly signifies fertility in many cultures
  A "C" note  (a dollar bill foded into a musical note) for someone
musical>
  "The Last Waltz"  for anniversaries, weddings etc.
  and there's always a crumpled up ball for anger

Rachel Katz





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 21:58:56 -0300 (ADT)
From: mandrk@pb.net
Subject: Re: terminal prepositions (non-origami content)

> Date:          Fri, 31 May 1996 18:36:48 -0300 (ADT)
> Reply-to:      origami-l@nstn.ca
> From:          Rjlang@aol.com
> To:            Multiple recipients of list <origami-l@nstn.ca>
> Subject:       Re: terminal prepositions (non-origami content)

> Sorry to further the NORM, but I gotta add my favorite sentence on this
> topic: a son, questioning his father's choice in bedtime reading material,
> asked "What did you bring that book I asked you not to read to me out of up
> for?"
>
> Or as someone famous is reputed to have said, "Ending a sentence with a
> preposition is something up with which I will not put!"
>
> In a lame attempt to claim relevancy for this topic, I note that the terminal
> preposition is a mainstay of verbal origami instruction, e.g., "Fold this
> flap up; bring the top flap over; open the model out;" and so forth.
>
> Robert
>
>
>Right on!

Rachel Katz





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 22:02:34 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Lori S." <104613.670@compuserve.com>
Subject: Emotions in paper

Pamela Graben wrote about emotions on paper.

Dear Pam,
   What is the significance of the frog? I never heard of
that one.
   I have heard of the crab, lucky star, et cetera. I'll
be glad to give you that info if you'd like it.
   I love using origami to show these things!





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 22:49:32 -0300 (ADT)
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hats 2

Re paper hats.... you might check out Magic Inc., Chicago, IL, ask for a book
on newspaper projects.  Check for my chicken hat in I think Convention Book
'89, ask for index listing from V'Ann Cornelious...... I think there is a hat
by Laura Kruskal in that same convention book.  See if you can find the paper
hat story.  It is in many books, can't remember exactly where.  Try a big
paper cup from newspaper....squash it sideways and turn up the flaps at the
bottom.  Nick Robinson has a neat hat with only about three moves in it.  You
could make this from newspaper.  Hope this helps. Dorigami





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 22:51:28 -0300 (ADT)
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re: Hats3

About hats, Rachel Katz's son designed a great sun shade from copmputer
paper.  Maybe she'll tell us where to find it again.  It is in some
convention collection.   Dorigami





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 22:52:17 -0300 (ADT)
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re:who is Anastasios Kotsikonos?

Who  knows who is Anastasios Kotsikonas and what does he do as list
processor.  Is he a robot or a real person...there is never a message from
him.  Yes, I ask a lot of questions but I'm very curious and one of  you guys
(persons) always know the answers.  Golly there is so much to know behind the
scenes about how all of this works.  Dorigami





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:54:36 -0300 (ADT)
From: bryan@sgl.ists.ca (Bryan Feir)
Subject: Re:who is Anastasios Kotsikonos?

> Who  knows who is Anastasios Kotsikonas and what does he do as list
> processor.  Is he a robot or a real person...there is never a message from
> him.  Yes, I ask a lot of questions but I'm very curious and one of  you guys
> (persons) always know the answers.  Golly there is so much to know behind the
> scenes about how all of this works.  Dorigami

   No... that person is the one who wrote the 'ListProcessor' software
that runs the list server.  He's a real person, but I don't know if he
has anything to do with origami.

---------------------------+---------------------------------------------------
Bryan Feir           VE7GBF|"I am a great believer in luck, and I find that the
bryan@sgl.ists.ca          | harder I work, the more I have of it."
                           |                          -- Stephen Leacock





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 2 Jun 1996 23:55:44 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@hpc.uh.edu>
Subject: Re: who is Anastasios Kotsikonos?

[This has nothing to do with origami.  If you want to reply, please take
 care to reply only to me and not to burden the list with even more
 off-topic messages.]

>>>>> "D" == DORIGAMI  <DORIGAMI@aol.com> writes:

D> Who knows who is Anastasios Kotsikonas and what does he do as list
D> processor.

He wrote the software that processes the list.  He has nothing to do with
the list itself; I highly doubt that he knows of its existence.

I'm just a subscriber; I have nothing to do with the operation of this list
either, though I have lists of my own.
--
      Jason L. Tibbitts III - tibbs@uh.edu - 713/743-8684 - 221SR1
System Manager:  University of Houston High Performance Computing Center
                1994 PC800 "Kuroneko"      DoD# 1723





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.CA>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 02:07:09 -0300 (ADT)
From: slider@ims.mariposa.ca.us (Pat Slider)
Subject: Re: Emotions in paper

How about a dollar-bill snail for a slow waiter/waitress?

pat slider

>How about:
>  The owl for wisdom
>  The butterfly signifies fertility in many cultures
>  A "C" note  (a dollar bill foded into a musical note) for someone
>musical>
>  "The Last Waltz"  for anniversaries, weddings etc.
>  and there's always a crumpled up ball for anger





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 02:16:46 -0300 (ADT)
From: slider@ims.mariposa.ca.us (Pat Slider)
Subject: Re: Hats 2

>See if you can find the paper
>hat story.  It is in many books, can't remember exactly where.

One book that has this story (and the boat/captain's shirt one) is "The New
Origami" by Steve and Megumi Biddle.

This book really seems to have some of everything by the way...modulars,
puzzles, stories, animals, etc.-- a good title to take along when you
travel.

pat slider





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 06:12:49 -0300 (ADT)
From: Bruce Stephens <stephens@math.ruu.nl>
Subject: Re: origami card

> At 09:47 PM 6/1/96 -0300, you wrote:
> >I bought a book at the OUSA convention last year called _For Your Eyes
> >Only: 13 Ways to Fold Notes_ by Florence Temko.  This is a paperback book
> >published by Willowisp Press.  ISBN 0-87406-737-5.  The models are in the
> >easy to intermediate range.
> >
> >Peg Berber
> >mbarber@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu

I'm fairly sure there's a BOS booklet on letter folds too.  I can't
give the details because unfortunately all of my origami books are in
the wrong country at the moment.





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 08:13:53 -0300 (ADT)
From: Alex Bateman <agb@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Alex Bateman's WWW page has moved

Hi Ann,
       My WWW page loves having visitors. However there seems to be some
system thing going wrong. I really should have asked someone privately
to check my page was readable before I announced it. Whoops. So my
apologies for that. I have changed a few things, but I expect if you try
to visit tomorrow everything will be working again. Thanks for letting
me know why my visitor counter has not been increasing :-)

Bye for now
Alex

-
- Alex Bateman
- MRC Laboratory of Molecular Biology
- agb@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk
- Phone: (01223) 402479
- http://alf2.mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk:1500/origami.html





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:10:18 -0300 (ADT)
From: Steve Woodmansee <stevew@empnet.com>
Subject: Re: Alex Bateman's WWW page has moved

At 06:46 PM 5/31/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Alex Bateman wrote:
>>
>> Hello all,
>>           My WWW origami page has moved to the new URL below.
>>
>> http://www.mrc-cpe.cam.ac.uk/cpe/jong/agb/origami.html
>
>Well, I'm doing something wrong... I can tell... I got this message
>when I tried to reach your new URL:
>
>"403 Forbidden
>
>Your client does not have permission to get URL
>/cpe/jong/agb/origami.html from this server."
>
>Either that, or it just doesn't like me. <g>
>
>Ann A. McGrath         Email: mcgrath@enter.net
>Easton, PA, USA               Fold it once, fold it twice then fold it once
>                  again.
>
I got the same message - is there some way to get around this?

Steve Woodmansee , Bend Oregon
USA
(Stevew@empnet.com)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 09:56:59 -0300 (ADT)
From: jan_polish@colpal.com
Subject: Origami airline seat

     I seem to recall that there was a posting about this weeks ago, but am
     not sure if it referred to the same ad. When I was in Paris at the
     French origami convention, Paul Jackson mentioned that he had designed
     an origami airline seat for an ad agency representing, he believed,
     Delta Airlines, and designated to appear in the American mid-west. He
     has been unable to obtain a copy of the ad, and is most anxious to see
     it. Does anyone have a copy of it? He offers a reward (unspecified),
     and his gratitude. If you've got it, please eMail me privately and I
     will arrange mailing, etc. Thanks a lot.

     Jan Polish (jan_polish@colpal.com)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 10:16:14 -0300 (ADT)
From: Steve Woodmansee <stevew@empnet.com>
Subject: Netiquette and the Origam-l list

        Without trying to stir things up any more than they already are, I
ask all of you to please indulge me in responding to several previous
e-mails regarding netiquette, content of origami e-mail, etc.

1.      I have never found e-mail signed with "cheers" to be anything other
than friendly.  Friends of mine from all around the globe use the phrase
often and always in a friendly context.  Construing this common and very
harmless phrase into anything else seems ridiculous.

2.      The fact that a great deal of "non-Origami" information ends up on
this page is part of what makes it interesting to me.  We who have signed up
for this list have a shared interest in a fascinating and unusual art form.
In that light, I think it is very interesting to see what other shared
interests we have and to get a glimpse of the cultural, personal,
educational, and spiritual backgrounds that influence our artistic
preferences, even if it is not strictly Origami related.

3.      Though I try to reply privately when it seems appropriate, I'm
always aware that on a public medium such as the net, there is a great
likelihood that my responses my be shared with more than the person to whom
they are addressed.  Because of this I'm never suprised when individual
replies I may make to others end up in widely distributed e-mails, whether
as quotes or because I sent the reply incorrectly.

I know this is a windy e-mail, but I was so saddened to see such hostile
tones to some of the recent e-mails, especially when Origami is such a
gentle art.  I'd always assumed that part of what happens here on the net is
that we find shared interests with others and forge friendships.  I'd hate
to think this forum had become so formalized and rigid that periodic
straying from the main subject was forbidden.

If this ever turns into such a regulated and inflexible environment I think
it would be very intimidating to make contributions to the list, for fear
they would not be acceptable or deemed relevant enough.  Should that ever
come to be, I hope someone will look for a new location where all input is
welcomed and hostility is not.

Cheers from the soapbox,

Steve Woodmansee , Bend Oregon
USA
(Stevew@empnet.com)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:10:31 -0300 (ADT)
From: Alasdair Post-Quinn <acpquinn@panther.middlebury.edu>
Subject: Re: Alex Batemans WWW page

On Sat, 1 Jun 1996, The Hailwoods wrote:

> >Well, I'm doing something wrong... I can tell... I got this message
> >when I tried to reach your new URL:
>
> >"403 Forbidden
>
> >Your client does not have permission to get URL
> >/cpe/jong/agb/origami.html from this server."
>
> >Either that, or it just doesn't like me. <g>
>
> >Ann A. McGrath
>
>
> I got the same message too. Anyone got any ideas?

Sure -- for the owner of the page to get on his/her unix account and
execute this command:

chmod 644 origami.html

while in the /cpe/jong/agb directory or wherever it is. That should give
outside users permission to read the document.

Alasdair
acpquinn@midd-unix.middlebury.edu





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:24:13 -0300 (ADT)
From: Alasdair Post-Quinn <acpquinn@panther.middlebury.edu>
Subject: Re: Hats3

On Sun, 2 Jun 1996 DORIGAMI@aol.com wrote:

> About hats, Rachel Katz's son designed a great sun shade from copmputer
> paper.  Maybe she'll tell us where to find it again.  It is in some
> convention collection.   Dorigami

On the contrary -- it's in one of the newsletters. I wore one to last
year's convention. One note, tho -- it's made from that wide 11x17" paper
that has perforated sheet-feed holes on the shorter sides, and it's made
from three of those sheets connected together, using the holes in the
sheet-feed portion as landmarks. I have lots of this stuff; if anyone
wants me to bring it to the convention and teach them the hat, please
tell me so ...

-Alasdair
acpquinn@midd-unix.middlebury.edu





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 11:27:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: Sheldon Ackerman <ackerman@dorsai.dorsai.org>
Subject: Netiquette...non origami

>
> If this ever turns into such a regulated and inflexible environment I think
> it would be very intimidating to make contributions to the list, for fear
> they would not be acceptable or deemed relevant enough.  Should that ever
> come to be, I hope someone will look for a new location where all input is
> welcomed and hostility is not.

Bravo for a perfect post that I am sure reflects the opinion of many on
this list!

--
Sheldon Ackerman.......http://www.dorsai.org/~ackerman/
ackerman@dorsai.dorsai.org
sheldon.ackerman@nycps.nycenet.edu





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.CA>
Date: Mon, 03 Jun 1996 12:48:18 -0300 (ADT)
From: Penny Groom <penny@sector.demon.co.UK>
Subject: Re: Origami airline seat

I
>Paul Jackson mentioned that he had designed
>     an origami airline seat for an ad agency representing, he believed,
>     Delta Airlines, and designated to appear in the American mid-west. He
>     has been unable to obtain a copy of the ad, and is most anxious to see
>     it. Does anyone have a copy of it? He offers a reward (unspecified),
>     and his gratitude. If you've got it, please eMail me privately and I
>     will arrange mailing, etc. Thanks a lot.
>
>     Jan Polish (jan_polish@colpal.com)
>

I thought it best to reply to the list to save you all looking for
copies of the ad.

I've just phoned Paul and told him I had a copy which I have sent  on
for the BOS magazine to publish. He asked me to tell Jan and the list
that he has now received a copy from the agency so doesn't need any
more.

Penny

--
Penny Groom





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 13:02:09 -0300 (ADT)
From: Steve Arlow <yorick@conch.aa.msen.com>
Subject: Re: Netiquette and the Origam-l list

Steve Woodmansee <Stevew@empnet.com> wrote:
>
>        Without trying to stir things up any more than they already are, I
>ask all of you to please indulge me in responding to several previous
>e-mails regarding netiquette, content of origami e-mail, etc.
>
>1.      I have never found e-mail signed with "cheers" to be anything other
>than friendly.  Friends of mine from all around the globe use the phrase
>often and always in a friendly context.  [...]
           ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sure.  But after a highly critical or argumentative post,
you must admit that it sounds extremely sarcastic, unlike
more neutral partings such as "Sincerely," etc..

>2.      The fact that a great deal of "non-Origami" information ends up on
>this page is part of what makes it interesting to me.  [...]
>                        [...]      I was so saddened to see such hostile
>tones to some of the recent e-mails, especially when Origami is such a
>gentle art.  [...]

There are only two kinds of off-topic posts that I complain
about.  The first kind is spam (off-topic advertisements, the
GOOD TIMES hoax, chain letters, pyramid schemes... things
which are not welcome on *any* mailing list).  The second
kind is flamewars.

I (rather harshly) pointed out to two people who were being
rude in subjecting the entire list to their flamewar -- over
netiquette, of all things -- that (a) they were both violating
netiquette left and right, and (b) they should take their
private conflict to private email.

I was harsh, yes, but you will notice also that we have not
been treated to another round of the pot and kettle screaming
senselessly at each other over which is blackest.

  -- Steve Arlow

--
 "Your dog stuffs his tongue up your nose.   |  Steve Arlow, Yorick Software
  It's a good omen.  You press on."          |  39336 Polo Club Dr. #103,
     -- Bernie E. Mireault, in _The JAM..._  |  Farmington Hills, MI  48335
            (.sig contest has been won)      |  http://www.msen.com/~yorick





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 3 Jun 1996 14:22:32 -0300 (ADT)
From: Pam & Namir <pgraben@umich.edu>
Subject: Origami Emotions

>Dear Pam(Namir),
>   What is the significance of the frog? I never heard of
>that one.
>   I have heard of the crab, lucky star, et cetera. I'll
>be glad to give you that info if you'd like it.
  I'd love to hear your info!

Quoted (with permission) from Tom Hull's "Paradoxes, controversies, and Just
plain guesses."  at http://www.csz.com/paper/arthull1.html

"Every animal and bird appears to have its own symbolic meaning. In
particular four creatures are popular, namely the Crane, which symbolizes
long life, the tortoise, which symbolizes even longer life, the Frog, which
is sometimes the symbol of success with perseverance and sometimes a symbol
of hope of return (because the words `frog' and `return' are similar in
Japanese) and the Carp, which symbolizes health, vigour and courage (Lister
: 5)."

!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-!-
!-!-!

Pamela Graben,         We and the world, see, we got
Namir Gharaibeh                this understanding!

          pgraben@umich.edu
