




Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 21:39:00 -0300 (ADT)
From: Kim Best <kb9727@tec.oz.cc.utah.edu>
Subject: Re: File Format Poll & Info + gif

On Mon, 13 May 1996, Bryan Feir wrote:

> >  Also an important thing: I heard that it is now illegal to create gif
> >  files without license from compuserve, is that true?
>
>    Not exactly.  What has happened is that Unisys owns the patent on the
> Lempel-Zif-Welch (LZW) compression algorithm.  They only recently realized
> that GIF files used that algorithm, and have started charging royalties.
> As part of the agreement betweem them and Compuserve, any previously written
> programs that create or read GIF files are 'grandfathered' and so don't have
> to pay the royalties.  You can keep using the format, it's just that you
> can't legally write a GIF creator/reader without getting licence from
> Unisys.
>

In addition Unisys is only asking for royalties from commercial
applications using the gif format, public domain programs are not affected.
The royalties is pretty nomimal, something like 1 dollar + 1% of the
profits.  In any case it only applys to software creators, not users.  If
you legally optained your conversion software, you will have no problems.

Kim Best                            *******************************
                                    *    Deeply dissapointed      *
Rocky Mountain Cancer Data System   *  that David Lister is not a *
420 Chipeta Way #120                *    British comedy actor.    *
Salt Lake City, Utah  84108         *******************************





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 13 May 1996 21:43:38 -0300 (ADT)
From: Rjlang@aol.com
Subject: Re: Selling models; [Q] for pros...

> Would the professionals on this list (Montroll, Lang, et alia)
> disagree?  Would you require permission for, or expect to receive
> royalties from, such a sale [of a folded model]?

Speaking for myself (BTW, I'm not a "professional" at origami, I still have a
day job), it's fine with me if you fold my designs and sell the models, but
I'd like to be credited as the designer. (Just don't do a shoddy job of
folding and then blame it on the design!)

Although if you felt like sending me royalties, I certainly wouldn't turn
them down.

Cheers,

Robert Lang





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 00:44:43 -0300 (ADT)
From: marckrsh@nyc.pipeline.com (Marc Kirschenbaum)
Subject: Re: Designing models - a few questions

On May 13, 1996 20:55:10, '"P.J. APPLEFORD"
<PABPJA@west-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk>' wrote:

>Firstly, I would like to be able to design my own models.  I
>certainly enjoy folding models from designs that are published by
>other people, but it would be nice to be able to come up with
>something truly original.  Do you normally think of the overall form
>of the model you want to create and try to use a base that would be
>appropriate, or is the process of design more one of starting with a
>good base and seeing what can be derived from it?
>

Either way is fine. For the type of person wo finds writing the first
sentence in a story to be the most difficult, starting with a pre-existing
base might be the way to go. The only problem with this method, is if the
base exists already, all of the obvious models have probably been dirived
from it already. There is a lot of creativity involded to find something
new in an old base. Other people are inspired to try to create a certain
model, and it is this inspiration that will keep them going to come up with
a structure that fits the subject. This is not a lot of information on
creating, but if you run into a more specific problem, I am sure someone on
this list could help you out.

>Secondly, I have just joined the BOS (hooray!), but my enjoyment has
>been slightly tempered by the fact that I find the diagrams in the
>magazine slightly too condensed.  I have only been folding for a
>couple of years but I normally haven't had any problems enterpreting
>the diagrams I have come across in books.  Does anybody else have
>this kind of problem or am I just a no-hoper.
>

If you a re refering to issue #177 of British Origami, you might have
noticed that many of the diagrams are over a decade old; diagraming has
improved thoughout the years. Also, I think there was a trend (or perhaps
still is), to diagram models as concisely as possible. Some people do get
spoiled by someone like John Montroll, who tends to show only one step per
diagram. Also, as a final note, I do not believe some of those diagrams
were meant for mass consumption; diagrams for commercially produced books
have an entirely different flavour.

Marc





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 02:56:08 -0300 (ADT)
From: James_Sakoda@Brown.edu (James Minoru Sakoda)
Subject: Re: File Format Poll & Info

>Update on PDF files:
>
>I installed the Acrobat Exchange/Distiller PDF file-
>making software last night and ran Distiller (makes
>PDF files from PS/postscript files) on some of the
>Postscript files from my Web page. The PDF files are
>1/2 to 1/3 the size of the PS files (!!); bearing in
>mind that these PS files were straight vector output
>from a CAD program (no bitmaps, embedded fonts, etc.)
>
>This is a significant file size reduction for those of
>us with limited Web space, and also will reduce download
>time for the end users. The Exchange program also will
>allow me to combine the multiple pages of output from my
>CAD program into a single PDF document, and hopefully to
>include photos too.
>

>
>--valerie
>Valerie Vann
>75070.304@compuserve.com
I have a laser printer that accepts Postscript files and prsumably can
handle postscript origmai line drawings. I am a Macintosh user and use a
drawing program called Canvas, which can handle postscript files. The PDF
files sound encouraing, since it is highly desirable to keep the files as
small as possible.    This should mean that text should be handled as text,
line drawings as line drawings and not as bitmapped data, which can greatly
increase the size of a file unnecessarily.  What we need is a single e-mail
program with capability of attaching line drawings or pictures which will
take care of the problems of viewing the data on screen, printing it out on
most printers, sending and receiving mail, etc. which we can all share.
This means availabiity on most computer systems and relatively low cost to
the user.  It can have such feature as ability to suppress files which a
person does not want or is not capable of handling.
        I assume that Netscape is most likely to develop such a program,
considering its popularity and ability to use a programming language (JAVA)
to add new desirable features.  I am encouraged by Valerie Vann's taking an
active interest in this format matter.  Now is there someone who can or is
willing to undertake JAVA.  James M. Sakoda





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 10:50:54 -0300 (ADT)
From: Tim Rueger <rueger@areaplg2.corp.mot.com>
Subject: Origami CD-ROM - free demo

Hi, all,

I got this press release about Geode Software's origami CD-ROM from the
Macintosh EvangeList.

The free demo is pretty nifty, but it's big (a 1.6megabyte download for
the Mac).

-Tim
--
Tim Rueger             Motorola CCRL IC Design Laboratory, IL02-2921
Fax  : (847) 538-4593  Internet: rueger@areaplg2.corp.mot.com

------- start of forwarded message -------
From: MacWay@aol.com
Subject: Discovering Origami CD
Date: Sun, 12 May 1996 03:32:28 -0400

This tidbit is from:

<slithy@halcyon.com> (dav lion)

Discovering Origami(TM) . . . on CD-ROM!

Geode Software Company announces the release of Discovering Origami a
CD-ROM for Macintosh.

A free demo of Discovering Origami is available at the Geode Software Web
Site <http://www.geodesoftware.com/geode/> where you can learn more and
download the sample.

Animated 3-D figures in Discovering Origami make it the fun and easy way
to fold beautiful paper shapes. Discovering Origami guides you
step-by-step through the process of folding origami.

*  Learn to fold ten classic shapes.

*  Enjoy a variety of photographic backgrounds and traditional Japanese
music while folding shapes.

*  Discover the history of origami in an interactive tour of a
traditional Japanese garden and tea house.

For more information by e-mail, contact geode@geodesoftware.com or visit
our web site: <http://www.geodesoftware.com/geode/>

________________
Do you believe in Macintosh? Learn how to help the Macintosh cause by
subscribing to EvangeList, Guy Kawasaki's (un)official Apple listserver
of good news about Apple, Macintosh, and third-party developers. To
subscribe to EvangeList, send an email to <evangelist@macway.com>.

"Create like a God, Command like a King, and Work like a slave" Brancusi

------- end of forwarded message -------





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 11:05:06 -0300 (ADT)
From: Brett <BrettAndJill@OIA.Net>
Subject: Re: Designing models - a few questions

At 08:13 PM 5/13/96 -0500, you wrote:
>Firstly, I would like to be able to design my own models.  I
>certainly enjoy folding models from designs that are published by
>other people, but it would be nice to be able to come up with
>something truly original.  Do you normally think of the overall form
>of the model you want to create and try to use a base that would be
>appropriate, or is the process of design more one of starting with a
>good base and seeing what can be derived from it?
>Pete. XXX

I am new to designing, like you.  The first things that I did, were to
deconstruct a few of my favorite designs by others to look at the patterns.
Did it help ?  I'm not sure, but I really like the patterns.

The next thing I did was, to make a few patterns of my own in an attempt to
come up with a few shapes or bases that I haven't seen before.  Was I
successfull, YESS!!  Once I was done with a few different shapes and bases I
set them aside.  After I had a bunch of different shape and bases to choose
from, I chose what I wanted to fold and picked the base that looked most
promising.  Sometimes this meant that I had to decontruct the base to figure
out how I made it in the first place (my memory for folds is, not really
memory).

I would imagine that the people that design more prolifically may do it
differently, and would have a more direct method.

Ya gotta start somewhere, right ?

Brett
BrettAndJill@OIA.Net





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 11:32:18 -0300 (ADT)
From: David Holmes <cm4bcdmh@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Designing models - a few questions

On Tue, 14 May 1996, Marc Kirschenbaum wrote:

> On May 13, 1996 20:55:10, '"P.J. APPLEFORD"
> <PABPJA@west-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk>' wrote:
>
> >Firstly, I would like to be able to design my own models.  I
> >certainly enjoy folding models from designs that are published by
> >other people, but it would be nice to be able to come up with
> >something truly original.  Do you normally think of the overall form
> >of the model you want to create and try to use a base that would be
> >appropriate, or is the process of design more one of starting with a
> >good base and seeing what can be derived from it?
> >

I've recently started creating original models, and so far I have used
the doodling approach - perhaps due to my lack of knowledge of how the
classic bases could be manipulated.  I just keep adding folds until the
paper begins to look interesting.  It may just be an abstract form or
it may actually resemble something!

I have also been folding some Jeff Beynon models, and as a result I have
tried the 'pre-creasing' method, putting creases into a square and seeing
how it may be manipulated and collapsed.

Basically, don't feel you have to create a model that resembles a
particular 'thing' - just let go and have FUN !!!

>
> >Secondly, I have just joined the BOS (hooray!), but my enjoyment has
> >been slightly tempered by the fact that I find the diagrams in the
> >magazine slightly too condensed.  I have only been folding for a
> >couple of years but I normally haven't had any problems enterpreting
> >the diagrams I have come across in books.  Does anybody else have
> >this kind of problem or am I just a no-hoper.
> >
>
> If you a re refering to issue #177 of British Origami, you might have
> noticed that many of the diagrams are over a decade old; diagraming has

If this is the latest issue, then yes, these diagrams do seem a bit
compact, with many folds to be performed per picture.

> improved thoughout the years. Also, I think there was a trend (or perhaps
> still is), to diagram models as concisely as possible. Some people do get
> spoiled by someone like John Montroll, who tends to show only one step per
> diagram. Also, as a final note, I do not believe some of those diagrams
> were meant for mass consumption; diagrams for commercially produced books
> have an entirely different flavour.
>

Regarding diagramming models, what do people think is the 'optimum'
number of folds to show on each diagram ?

David M Holmes                  cm4bcdmh@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
British Origami Society        Association of C & C++ Users
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2162/       (in development)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 11:35:35 -0300 (ADT)
From: David Holmes <cm4bcdmh@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Designing models - a few questions

On Tue, 14 May 1996, Brett wrote:

> The next thing I did was, to make a few patterns of my own in an attempt to
> come up with a few shapes or bases that I haven't seen before.  Was I
> successfull, YESS!!  Once I was done with a few different shapes and bases I
>

You've designed some new bases ?  Please, share them !!

> Ya gotta start somewhere, right ?
>

Certainly true. :)

David M Holmes                  cm4bcdmh@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
British Origami Society        Association of C & C++ Users
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2162/       (in development)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 12:15:05 -0300 (ADT)
From: Brett <BrettAndJill@OIA.Net>
Subject: Re: Designing models - a few questions

At 09:59 AM 5/14/96 -0500, David Holmes wrote:

>You've designed some new bases ?  Please, share them !!
>
>

After I come up with something, I ususally go through my books and copies to
see if the bases that I make are new.  And, in most cases they are all
parallel designs :(   (maybe with a few slight differences).  Very few are
something I haven't seen before.  And, most I haven't actually done anything
with yet, so I would like to get some mileage out of them before everyone
else gets a crack ;)

Brett
BrettAndJill@OIA.Net





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 14:47:50 -0300 (ADT)
From: David Holmes <cm4bcdmh@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk>
Subject: "Visual/Virtual" diagramming application

On Tue, 14 May 1996, James Minoru Sakoda wrote:

> active interest in this format matter.  Now is there someone who can or is
> willing to undertake JAVA.  James M. Sakoda
>

YES. Me! Me! Me!

For my Final Year project as part of my Computer Science degree I have been
thinking of designing an interactive GUI driven system for drawing
origami diagrams.

At present I am thinking in terms of semi 2-dimensional pictures - stored
as line vectors, not bitmaps.  If I can get to grips with 3D graphics
then it may turn out better.

Some design points:

* Standard bases
      The user selects a bird base for example, and the program automatically
      generates the diagrams for the steps required to obtain a folded bird
      base.  The user can then begin to add folds from there on.

* Examples of basic folds
      The user can select a basic fold such as an inside reverse fold, and
      the program will display the required steps in order to teach that fold.

* Automatic folding ( perhaps ! )
      Say there is a loose flap you want to rabbit-ear.  You could specify
      the direction (?) and the program would do it.  Not sure about this
      one though :)

Anyway, I very much hope to use JAVA because of the very nature of its
cross-platform portability.  I also considered the output file format,
namely PostScript, but following the earlier thread I'm not too sure.
I think there is still a place for PostScript, with those people who
would like to diagram their models but cannot afford the Adobe PDF software.

I had envisioned my program being used by a large proportion of paper
folders, perhaps by those who couldn't afford a commercial drawing/CAD
package.  It would be Public Domain, as long as my University were to allow
it.  And of course, there's the crunch.  The uni apparently keeps the
rights to any programs students develop while studying the course!!!

I would appreciate all comments on my idea.  Thank you.

David M Holmes                  cm4bcdmh@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
British Origami Society        Association of C & C++ Users
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2162/       (in development)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 16:51:20 -0300 (ADT)
From: RA Kennedy <kennedra@isdugp.bham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Designing models - a few questions

Peter

>
> Secondly, I have just joined the BOS (hooray!), but my enjoyment has
> been slightly tempered by the fact that I find the diagrams in the
> magazine slightly too condensed.  I have only been folding for a
> couple of years but I normally haven't had any problems enterpreting
> the diagrams I have come across in books.  Does anybody else have
> this kind of problem or am I just a no-hoper.

Everyone gets stuck at some point. Keep watching origami-l for the pleas
for help. Working through some less than clear diagrams is a challenge, and
will make you think how do I get from here to the next figure. It is a
step towards developing your own creations, where of course you don't
know what the next drawing is!

In the case of the latest BOS magazine, I think the diagrams for the
swan/fish are quite clear. If you struggle, I can put you in touch with
Rick Beech, who taught this model at the last BOS convention. Another
set of diagrams for Thoki Yenn's rabbit (hare?) can be found in Paulo
Mulatinho's book "Origami". The Weiss owl could be in "Origami Zoo" by
Lang and Weiss. I'll have to check that against my copy. I haven't any
suggestions on the Hulme owl, except persevere. The sense of satisfaction
on completing a model from rather sketchy instructions beats that from
following 'a recipe'.

Richard K.
(R.A.Kennedy@bham.ac.uk)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 17:53:23 -0300 (ADT)
From: Oded Streigold <benjic@netvision.net.il>
Subject: Mark Kirschenbaum folds

 Hi all!

 Over the past years I have seen Mark Kirschenbaum publications in OUSA
 annual collection books. All of them were complex, I'v succeeded in few,
 but I'v always been a kin admirer of his work. If wander if he has
     published any books, or if he has more folds in his hat.

 Thanks!

 Oded.
 Email: benjic@netvision.net.il





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Tue, 14 May 1996 17:59:58 -0300 (ADT)
From: Oded Streigold <benjic@netvision.net.il>
Subject: Ronald koh folds

 Hallo!

 I want to know if Ronald Koh has Email address, and if he published
 diagrams elsewhere then the OUSA convention books.
 Also I want to know if Fred Rohm has published diagrams outside OUSA
 convention books, and where his money folds can be found?

 I'v been curious lately, haven't I?

 Thank you!

 Oded
 benjic@netvision,net.il





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 00:57:40 -0300 (ADT)
From: marckrsh@nyc.pipeline.com (Marc Kirschenbaum)
Subject: Re: Mark Kirschenbaum folds

On May 14, 1996 17:53:23, 'Oded Streigold <benjic@netvision.net.il>' wrote:

>Over the past years I have seen Mark Kirschenbaum publications in OUSA
>annual collection books. All of them were complex, I'v succeeded in few,
>but I'v always been a kin admirer of his work. If wander if he has

>published any books, or if he has more folds in his hat.

I am glad to hear you have enjoyed my recent output. Most of the diagrams I
have produced have been published through Origami USA (primarily in their
Annual Collections). I have designed a lot of other models, but I doubt I
will have the time to diagram them (of those I remember how to make). I
have been slowly (very slowly, that is), working on a book of diagrams for
my instrumentalists. At the rate I am going out now (virtual standstill),
it should be a few years until anything concrete emerges. On a brighter
note, Gay Gross has expressed interest in my offer to do a book with her. I
have a bunch of simple - intermediate models I would like to have
commercially published, and Gay is very good at presenting models at that
difficulty level. She said she would contact me when she has another
publisher's offer. All of this is still tentative, so my main output will
remain through the Annual Collections. Thanks again.

Marc





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 02:41:58 -0300 (ADT)
From: Laurie Bisman <lbisman@sirranet.co.nz>
Subject: RE: Designing models - a few questions

Interesting thread......

After seeing how people start creative folding, I took a look through a
bunch of my stuff and realised that I very rarely start from an established
base. I tend to think instead of the finished model, and then how to get
there.

Of course some of my folds are from existing bases/starting points, but
they are the exception rather than the rule.

I don't know why that is, I certainly enjoy folding other peoples models,
whether they start conventionally or not.

Laurie Bisman
lbisman@sirranet.co.nz

for those who have message readers that show garbage at the end...





Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 03:06:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: James_Sakoda@Brown.edu (James Minoru Sakoda)
Subject: Re: "Visual/Virtual" diagramming application

>On Tue, 14 May 1996, James Minoru Sakoda wrote:
>
>> active interest in this format matter.  Now is there someone who can or is
>> willing to undertake JAVA.  James M. Sakoda
>>
>
>YES. Me! Me! Me!
>
>For my Final Year project as part of my Computer Science degree I have been
>thinking of designing an interactive GUI driven system for drawing
>origami diagrams.
>

>David M Holmes                  cm4bcdmh@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk
>=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
>British Origami Society        Association of C & C++ Users
>http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/2162/       (in development)
        Bob Lange attempted a program such as you describe to computerize
the drwing of origami instructions.  I don't know how far he got, but not
having heard of it recently he may have given it up.  I would suggest that
you consult him about his experieces.  I can see the system working for
very simple origami, such as represented y traditional origami, but very
difficult for more complex ones, especially those for which the moves are
not conventional or simple.  Also, available drawing programs such as
Freehand and Canvas (which I use on a Mac) are loaded with convenient
features, which you may have difficulty using.  One example, is the
duplication routine, which allows for duplication of a smaller feature
which can be rotated n times, whie being offset a given amount, and rotated
n degrees,and each duplication changed in size by x percent.  To draw a
flower, for example, it is usually only necessary to draw  one petal and
use duplication for the rest.  There is also a need to fudge drawngs to
show different levels of folded paper, and to assign different shading to
different parts of a drawing.
        Perhaps you can tackle part of the problem.  Bob Lange has been
working on a program to calculate angles for folding n points, st rting
with a simple diagram.  You can ask him about that, too.  Good luck on your
project.  James M. Sakoda.





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:06:52 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@homelink.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thoki Yenn's DNA

In message <9605131843.AA02874@isdux1.bham.ac.uk>, RA Kennedy
<kennedra@isdugp.bham.ac.uk> writes

>> >     For you origami and Escher fans, have you folded Thoki Yenn's DNA 4
>> >     model?  It's in the Conference on Origami in Education and Therapy
>> >     1995(?) book.
>> >

Damn fine book (hint hint)
cheers,

Nick Robinson
nick@homelink.demon.co.uk

***Origami is Sharing, not Selling***

Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:10:16 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@homelink.demon.co.uk>
Subject: condensed diagrams?

"P.J. APPLEFORD" <PABPJA@west-01.novell.leeds.ac.uk> writes

Are you a fellow Northerner? I think there is a Leeds outside of
England. Welcome to the society.

>I find the diagrams in the magazine slightly too condensed.

I take it you are referring to BO#177? Do you mean condensed in size or
number of steps? There seems to be a trend these days to leave lots of
white border around diagrams, perhaps to be more "artistic". This simply
reduces the space available for the actual diagrams!

In general though, designs in BO vary according to the whims of the
artist who drew them - some poeple leave steps out to save time/effort.
I remember seeing Dan Mason's "Gorilla Mask" at my first BOS convention
& steps 6/7 left me for dead - about 26 instructions in a single step!

cheers,

Nick Robinson
nick@homelink.demon.co.uk

***Origami is Sharing, not Selling***

Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 10:28:57 -0300 (ADT)
From: Bruce Stephens <stephens@math.ruu.nl>
Subject: Re: Thoki Yenn's DNA

Nick Robinson writes:
> In message <9605131843.AA02874@isdux1.bham.ac.uk>, RA Kennedy
> <kennedra@isdugp.bham.ac.uk> writes
>
> >> >     For you origami and Escher fans, have you folded Thoki Yenn's DNA 4
> >> >     model?  It's in the Conference on Origami in Education and Therapy
> >> >     1995(?) book.
> >> >
>
> Damn fine book (hint hint)

Worth snapping up a few copies to keep for Christmas presents, would
you say?





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:00:08 -0300 (ADT)
From: Lisa_Hodsdon@hmco.com
Subject: Re: Books on Mathematics of Paperfolding.

Since traffic on the list has slowed down a bit, I've finally gotten back
to read some of David Lister's posts.

Two of the books he mentions *are* readily available from NCTM:

"Mathematics Through Paper Folding" by Alton T. Johnson
ISBN: 0-87353-076-4
Catalog #060E1
$6.50 (US)

which (according to David) is a rewriting of the earlier book:

"Paper Folding for the Mathematics Class" by Donovan A. Johnson
ISBN: 0-87353-412-3
Catalog #581E1
$8.00 (US)
(This is one of several "classic" books reprinted for NCTM's recent
100th anniversary.)

To place an order:
National Council of Teachers of Mathematics
P. O. Box 25405
Richmond, VA  23260-5405
1(800)235-7566

To contact NCTM:
National Council of Teachers of Mathematics
1096 Association Drive
Reston, VA  22091-1593





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 11:34:44 -0300 (ADT)
From: Rjlang@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Visual/Virtual" diagramming application

David Holmes writes:

>>>>For my Final Year project as part of my Computer Science degree I have
been thinking of designing an interactive GUI driven system for drawing
origami diagrams...<<<<

Dr. Sakoda responds:

>>>>
Bob Lange [sic] attempted a program such as you describe to computerize the
drwing of origami instructions...I can see the system working for very simple
origami, such as represented by traditional origami, but very difficult for
more complex ones, especially those for which the moves are not conventional
or simple...<<<<

Robert Lang chimes in:

Some years ago Jack Fastag and I each wrote origami "manipulator" programs,
in which you could fold on-screen by clicking on points and dragging them and
then watch the paper fold itself. Although it was great fun in a programming
sort of way, it was very difficult to deal with even moderately complex
steps, e.g., petal-folding a flap with multiple layers. The problem is that
different ways you can petal-fold the flap, but it's obvious to the folder to
pick the way that makes things line up the most symmetrically. It's a lot
tougher to figure out a computer algorithm to pick the "most symmetric,"
identify which layers move, where all the creases go, how the layers stack
before and after the step, and how to make the fold to avoid collisions
between layers; and your algorithm has to handle _every_ possible scenario.
In the end, my manipulator program was a fun toy but could only do basic
mountain and valley folds (it had infinite levels of Undo, though), but it
wasn't really useful for diagramming.

The problem you're gonna face is, if there's only _one_ unusual step in a
model that your program can't handle, you're sunk. For my diagramming, I've
been very happy with general-purpose vector graphics programs such as Dr.
Sakoda described (I use Macromedia FreeHand).

Incidentally, since I don't have Distiller, in the ongoing PostScript/PDF
wars, I vote PostScript.

Robert Lang





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 14:22:34 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re:  "Visual/Virtual" diagramming application

R. Lang wrote Re my poll on file formats:
<<Incidentally, since I don't have Distiller, in the ongoing PostScript/PDF
wars, I vote PostScript.>>

Robert: You don't have to have Distiller to **USE** PDF files,
just to MAKE them. In fact, Distiller is only needed to MAKE
PDF files from Postscript files; many applications can make
PDF files using the less expensive Acrobat utilities, Exchange
and Writer (the latter functions like a printer driver).

To USE/VIEW PDF files, all you need is ACROBAT READER, which
is freeware, available from a number of sources, eg. Adobe's
web/ftp site (www.adobe.com). Acrobat Reader versions are
available for DOS, Windows, MAC, and several flavors of UNIX
(though not LINUX, so I'm told.)

If you haven't tried Acrobat Reader, which enables you to both
view and print PDF files (a test version serves as a Netscape
plug-in), I urge you to try it.  PDF fles can also include
thumbnails, bookmarks (would be good for marking your last
step in a month-long effort to fold one of those notorious
R.Lang beetles... :-) ; full color graphics, and movies.

--valerie
Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com
http://users.aol.com/valerivann/index.html
[Modular Origami Home Page]





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 16:08:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: File Format Poll & Info

OrigamiCM.. wrote:
<<You shouldn't have a problem with web space, i mean, AOL gives you ten megs
of web space>>

I **know** AOL give me 10MB of Web Space, but you ought to see
what a few half meg postscript files does to that! We're not
talking 2K HTML files here... Any significant reduction in
file size is welcome, and one of multipage PDF files turned out
to be half the size of the biggest page component in raw
Postscript!

--valerie
Valerie Vann
75070.304@compuserve.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 17:26:16 -0300 (ADT)
From: Hamilton Edmund Link <hamlink@cs.uoregon.edu>
Subject: Re: "Visual/Virtual" diagramming application

I was wondering what platform your program (and Jack's) ran on.  I would
like to see an executable (not source, of course), to see what it can
and cannot do.  I'm not sure what David Holmes is doing, but I am doing my
senior thesis and I would like to see what has and has not been
accomplished in origami software, so that I can better define my thesis
topic.  Currently it's something like, "Origami: An analysis of the
mathematics of folding finite planes."  Pretty vague and easily
encompassing just about anything.

thanks,
hamilton

On Wed, 15 May 1996 Rjlang@aol.com wrote:

> David Holmes writes:
>
> >>>>For my Final Year project as part of my Computer Science degree I have
> been thinking of designing an interactive GUI driven system for drawing
> origami diagrams...<<<<
>
> Dr. Sakoda responds:
>
> >>>>
> Bob Lange [sic] attempted a program such as you describe to computerize the
> drwing of origami instructions...I can see the system working for very simple
> origami, such as represented by traditional origami, but very difficult for
> more complex ones, especially those for which the moves are not conventional
> or simple...<<<<
>
> Robert Lang chimes in:
>
> Some years ago Jack Fastag and I each wrote origami "manipulator" programs,
> in which you could fold on-screen by clicking on points and dragging them and
> then watch the paper fold itself. Although it was great fun in a programming
> sort of way, it was very difficult to deal with even moderately complex
> steps, e.g., petal-folding a flap with multiple layers. The problem is that
> to the folder, if you say, "petal-fold this flap", there may be many
> different ways you can petal-fold the flap, but it's obvious to the folder to
> pick the way that makes things line up the most symmetrically. It's a lot
> tougher to figure out a computer algorithm to pick the "most symmetric,"
> identify which layers move, where all the creases go, how the layers stack
> before and after the step, and how to make the fold to avoid collisions
> between layers; and your algorithm has to handle _every_ possible scenario.
> In the end, my manipulator program was a fun toy but could only do basic
> mountain and valley folds (it had infinite levels of Undo, though), but it
> wasn't really useful for diagramming.
>
> The problem you're gonna face is, if there's only _one_ unusual step in a
> model that your program can't handle, you're sunk. For my diagramming, I've
> been very happy with general-purpose vector graphics programs such as Dr.
> Sakoda described (I use Macromedia FreeHand).
>
> Incidentally, since I don't have Distiller, in the ongoing PostScript/PDF
> wars, I vote PostScript.
>
> Robert Lang





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 19:23:42 -0300 (ADT)
From: kkinney@med.unc.edu (Kevin Kinney)
Subject: Question for M. Kirschenbaum

Sorry for the public post, folks.  My mailer only replies to ori-l, not to
the originator.

> Annual Collections). I have designed a lot of other models, but I doubt I
> will have the time to diagram them (of those I remember how to make). I
> have been slowly (very slowly, that is), working on a book of diagrams for
> my instrumentalists. At the rate I am going out now (virtual standstill),
> it should be a few years until anything concrete emerges. On a brighter

You don't by any chance have a harpist in that collection of
instrumentalists, do you?  If so, is it diagrammed?  I'd *really love to
see it, if you'd be willing....

Let me know,

Kevin Kinney
kkinney@med.unc.edu





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:14:57 -0300 (ADT)
From: Jennifer Andre <JAndre@cfipro.com>
Subject: New(?) Fuse Books and Cool Paper

     I'm jet-lagging today, and neither my co-workers nor I can figure out
     why am in the office today.  Maybe it was because I wanted to get to
     my e-mail...

     I spent three weeks in Japan, and scored FIVE Fuse Tomoko books.  One
     is from 1992, and the other four, a series, are dated 1995.  I don't
     have them with me, but I'll bring them and give the names as soon as
     I've translated all of them.  I've already made a couple of boxes from
     #3 in the series.  I think the volume is called, "Filled Origami
     Boxes."  Maybe someone else who has these books can offer a better
     translation.  I also scored a couple of others, whose names AND
     authors escape me.

     Finding "big kids'" origami books was a challange!  I found that the
     large bookstores ("hon-ya") I looked inside in Osaka and Kyoto had
     only children's origami books.  I was pleasantly surprised to find the
     Fuse books and a couple of others in the somewhat smaller book
     sections of department stores!  In my excitement, I completely drained
     the origami book section in Hankyu Department Store in the Umeda
     district (in Osaka)--all five of them.  I rounded out my (barely
     portable) collection at Takashimaya Department Store in the Namba
     district, I think.

     I also found some really nifty paper.  One kind comes in four pastel
     colors (blue, pink, green, yellow).  It glows in the dark!  Found it
     at The Keihan Store near Hirakata-shi (train) Station in Osaka.  Any
     suggestions for models that would make good use of this paper?  (When
     it's glowing in the dark, it's all the same color.)

     I'm going home now.  It's nice to be back with you all!

     - Jenni(fer) Andre





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Wed, 15 May 1996 20:37:37 -0300 (ADT)
From: JPP <AB10TP3412.cin@desnews.com>
Subject: Re: File Format Poll & Info

> > >I'd appreciate some input from list members on the subject> > >of graphics
file formats for origami diagrams.
> > >
>
> PDF is certainly easier to view and print for those of us who do not have
> PostScript printers.
     Although, there are those of us out here who would much rather have any
diagrams come in .GIF format.  Much easier for me to have it in .GIF.
     That's just my 2 cents, though.
John Pruess
utahjohn@aol.com
ab10tp3412.cin@desnews.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 03:34:31 -0300 (ADT)
From: Penny Groom <penny@sector.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thoki Yenn's DNA

In article <199605151326.PAA02801@cantecler.math.ruu.nl>, Bruce Stephens
<stephens@math.ruu.nl> writes
>
>Nick Robinson writes:
>> In message <9605131843.AA02874@isdux1.bham.ac.uk>, RA Kennedy
>> <kennedra@isdugp.bham.ac.uk> writes
>>
>> >> >     For you origami and Escher fans, have you folded Thoki Yenn's DNA 4
>> >> >     model?  It's in the Conference on Origami in Education and Therapy
>> >> >     1995(?) book.
>> >> >
>>
>> Damn fine book (hint hint)
>
>Worth snapping up a few copies to keep for Christmas presents, would
>you say?

Worth buying for yourself too, AND it's so easy, just send me your
credit card number and Robbo have it in the post to you before you know
it.
A coffee table must!!!!!!
Penny
--
Penny Groom





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 04:00:30 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@homelink.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Thoki Yenn's DNA

Bruce Stephens <stephens@math.ruu.nl> sez
>
>> Damn fine book (hint hint)
>
>Worth snapping up a few copies to keep for Christmas presents, would
>you say?

Certainly - where else could you find 460 odd pages of origami-related
theory & examples?  It would stand a better chance of defeating Clinton
than most of the opposition (should that be your bent) & makes a fine
item to fling at the cat when it is "naughty" on your latest cuckoo
clock.

cheers,

Nick Robinson
nick@homelink.demon.co.uk

***Origami is Sharing, not Selling***

Turnpike evaluation. For information, see http://www.turnpike.com/





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 09:35:06 -0300 (ADT)
From: kkinney@med.unc.edu (Kevin Kinney)
Subject: Re: Replies and Addresses

>
> You write:
> >Sorry for the public post, folks.  My mailer only replies to ori-l, not to
> >the originator.
> >
> >> [...]
> >
> >Kevin Kinney
> >kkinney@med.unc.edu
>
> So does mine, and most everyone else's, thanks to the way
> the ListProcessor is configured.  But you can always re-type
> the To: address, which is what the rest of us do.
>
>   -- Steve Arlow

True, assuming that the address is included in the *body* of the message,
which many people do not do.  You did, but I make this a public post to
reiterate the request that people do so, for those of us who can't pull
the address from the header (my system trims it off.  The system sucks,
but it's what I have to work with)

Ksk
kkinney@med.unc.edu





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:43:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: Rjlang@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Visual/Virtual" diagramming application

Valerie Vann wrote:

>>>>Robert: You don't have to have Distiller to **USE** PDF files,
just to MAKE them...

I know that. I have (and use) Reader. I'm referring to the other end of the
rope: as a diagrammer, I'm not planning on buying Distiller so the only way
I'll be making diagrams available is via PostScript. Now if someone else
volunteers to distill them into PDFs, that's hokay wid me.

I'd be curious to see if Distiller can handle custom PostScript line effects
(like justified dashed lines) that are useful in origami.

Robert





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 10:43:56 -0300 (ADT)
From: Rjlang@aol.com
Subject: Re: "Visual/Virtual" diagramming application

>>>>
I was wondering what platform your [origami manipulator] program (and Jack's)
ran on.  I would
like to see an executable (not source, of course), to see what it can
and cannot do.  I'm not sure what David Holmes is doing, but I am doing my
senior thesis and I would like to see what has and has not been
accomplished in origami software...
<<<<

Mine was Mac, Jack's was Windows. (We traded ideas on how we structured our
class libraries. I never actually saw his running, though.) One 'o these days
I'll get mine uploaded to the archives (AOL's ftp front end doesn't appear to
allow me to upload to ftp.rug.nl/origami/.incoming; if any other AOL users
have successfully uploaded to this site, I'd appreciate any tips on what I'm
missing).

For more on origami software, I'll repeat a plug I made some weeks ago; next
Friday (May 24) I'll be presenting a paper at the ACM Symposium on
Computational Geometry in Philadelphia titled "A Computational Algorithm for
Origami Design," describing an algorithm and a software program (TreeMaker)
for designing bases.

Robert Lang
rjlang@aol.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 16:59:45 -0300 (ADT)
From: Nick Robinson <nick@homelink.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Re: File Format Poll & Info

JPP <AB10TP3412.cin@desnews.com> sez

>Much easier for me to have it in .GIF.

Ditto.....

cheers,

Nick Robinson
nick@homelink.demon.co.uk

***Australian Origami is Shearing***

Turnpike evaluation. For Turnpike information, mailto:info@turnpike.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 18:27:53 -0300 (ADT)
From: "Shi-Yew Chen (a.k.a. Sy)" <sychen@leatherback.nist.gov>
Subject: Back to the list - multiple subjects

I have not received any mails for about 1 week. I thought listserver was
down and went to check archive site. There were new mails. So I resubscribe?
(Why I was removed?) Anyway after a quick glance of archives here is my
quick follow-up:

<Re: File Format Poll & Info>
Although pdf is my preferred one (so far). Diagram/photo creator needs to
buy it. It would be easier for hand-drawn diagrammer to sketch it on paper
and scan it into GIF. And it it easier for computer-aided diagrammer to
output it to pdf/postscript. In user/viewer's point of view I will go for
pdf. But not every diagrammer can afford pdf driver. There are still some
volunteer to do the format converting job, right?
PS: PDF viewer for Linux can be found in
http://www.contrib.andrew.cmu.edu/usr/dn0o/xpdf/xpdf.html Is there any linux
users in this list? PDF market is growing.

===================================
From: David Holmes <cm4bcdmh@bs47c.staffs.ac.uk>
Subject: "Visual/Virtual" diagramming application

This is one of my favorite topics. I have "DREAMed" to do it for the sake of
folding hobby. I wished I knew more about vector-based programming theory. I
HOPE I can do it in a more multi-platform savvy way. I got to finish my
diagramming for my models. How about time? Well!  The project is till up in
the air...

I recalled Robert Lang and someone else (I forgot the name?) did write a
virtual folding program parallelly (NOT TreeMaker! Correct me if I am wrong,
Robert.) It works (Robert claimed as I recalled) for some simple 2D folding
(pureland?). I don't know if he is still doing it. Can you shed some light
on it, Robert? Where can I find published algorithm to do "Visual/Virtual"
diagramming?

=========================================
Well I got to pick up my daughter now. Talk to you later.

|-------------------------------------------------------\
|  _  Sy Chen <chens@iia.org or sychen@enh.nist.gov>    |\
| |_| Folding Page http://www.iia.org/~chens/pprfld.htm --\





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 16 May 1996 18:37:47 -0300 (ADT)
From: quintin@ra.isisnet.com (L. Quintin)
Subject: missing pages

I just bought Harbin's "Origami 2" at a used-book store but didn't check for
missing pages because it was in good shape and the spine wasn't broken.
When I was flipping through it at home, I found that the book appeared to
end in the middle of a model.  I say "appeared" because the table of
contents lists eleven more models after the interrupted one, indicating
another 43+ pages, but there's no way that more than 20 leaves fell out of
the end of this book.  There doesn't appear to be *any* leaves physically
missing, let alone 20+.

Can anyone shed any light on this?

On the same subject, the interrupted model is Neal Elias' "Knight in Armour"
and I have an affinity for medieval models.  Can anyone help me get complete
diagrams for this model?  (I don't even know what it looks like, since
there's no finished drawing.)

FYI, the missing pages contain these models:
skier
super hat
flower and leaf
plumed helmet (would like to get this one as well)
old kentucky horse
kangaroo
medieval hat
simplex base
snake charmer
hat and puppet
otomo no kuronushi

Lise
quintin@ra.isisnet.com in Nova Scotia (you know, Canada)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 11:58:31 -0300 (ADT)
From: gonzalep@plgcn.umontreal.ca (Gonzalez Patrick)
Subject: Re: missing pages

>
> I just bought Harbin's "Origami 2" at a used-book store but didn't check for
> missing pages because it was in good shape and the spine wasn't broken.
> When I was flipping through it at home, I found that the book appeared to
> end in the middle of a model.  I say "appeared" because the table of
> contents lists eleven more models after the interrupted one, indicating
> another 43+ pages, but there's no way that more than 20 leaves fell out of
> the end of this book.  There doesn't appear to be *any* leaves physically
> missing, let alone 20+.
>
> Can anyone shed any light on this?
>
> On the same subject, the interrupted model is Neal Elias' "Knight in Armour"
> and I have an affinity for medieval models.  Can anyone help me get complete
> diagrams for this model?  (I don't even know what it looks like, since
> there's no finished drawing.)
>
> FYI, the missing pages contain these models:
> skier
> super hat
> flower and leaf
> plumed helmet (would like to get this one as well)
> old kentucky horse
> kangaroo
> medieval hat
> simplex base
> snake charmer
> hat and puppet
> otomo no kuronushi
>
>

I have a french edition of that book and all these models
are included. The knight is nice, specially if you
make it out of foil. The snake charmer is a fine
action model made from the simplex base. I use to
love the old kentucky horse but it is no match for
Brill's horse model.





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 12:36:26 -0300 (ADT)
From: Brett <BrettAndJill@OIA.Net>
Subject: ORU Quarterly

Hi All,

Does anyone have the quarterly ORU Collection ?  I am considering ordering
it and would like a little more info about the models and Japanese/English
barrier.

Found the book @ http://www.terra.net/sasuga/origami.html Nice Site.

Of course almost any site with the word origami in it wins out in my book ;)

Brett
BrettAndJill@OIA.Net





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 14:44:38 -0300 (ADT)
From: bob@maggie.pentek.com (Bob)
Subject: Re: ORU Quarterly

Hi All,

The ORU collection is pretty nice.  I really haven't had time to fold anything
in it so I can't comment on the Japanese/English barrier but the selection
of models is interesting.  Once I've folded a few models, or even had a
chance to look through it in ernest, I'll let you know.

Bob
bob@pentek.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 15:25:23 -0300 (ADT)
From: hull@hypatia.math.uri.edu
Subject: Chris Palmer speaks at AM96!

Hi everybody,

        I just wanna announce that Chris Palmer, aka origami tesselation
GOD, will be giving a lecture on his paperfolded tiling work
at the Art and Mathematics Conference in SUNY Albany, June 22-26
(right before the OUSA convention!).  This will be the very first
time Chris will present his work at a real honest-to-goodness art
and math crowd in America, and it should be quite a show!
        If anyone wants info on registering for the conference,
please email me personally.

---------- Tom "buttercup" Hull
           hull@math.uri.edu





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 17 May 1996 16:49:45 -0300 (ADT)
From: Steve Woodmansee <stevew@empnet.com>
Subject: Re: ORU Quarterly

At 12:36 PM 5/17/96 -0300, you wrote:
>Hi All,
>
>Does anyone have the quarterly ORU Collection ?  I am considering ordering
>it and would like a little more info about the models and Japanese/English
>barrier.
>
>Found the book @ http://www.terra.net/sasuga/origami.html Nice Site.
>
Okay, I can't stand it any more!  How do I order the ORU Collection? Are
there more?  I want more!!!
Steve Woodmanse, Bend Oregon, U.S.
"For me, it is to laugh"  (Unknown)
Stevew@empnet.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 12:35:32 -0300 (ADT)
From: Bren Riesinger <fascfold@fascinating-folds.com>
Subject: Thanks for Your Patience!

Please excuse the public broadcast on this, but many you are patiently
waiting to hear from me regarding the "Classified" and "Who's Who" pages.
I'm up to my "ears" in getting a new catalog and color sheets printed and am
a little behind on updating the web pages.  The target is to go to print the
end of this next week, so I'll get back to the web pages then.  Thank you
for your patience - I'll keep everyone posted.

Bren
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - -
Fascinating Folds
Rediscover the ancient craft of Origami, Japanese paper-folding, with
our extensive line of Origami papers and books.
http://www.fascinating-folds.com/paper





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 18 May 1996 15:09:39 -0300 (ADT)
From: terryh@lamg.com (Terry Hall)
Subject: Re: ORU Quarterly

Hi Brett,

I have all of the issues of ORU and think it is one of the must have
collections. Model complexities range from intermediate to complex plus there
are beautiful photographs of models and what appears to be extensive
biographies on different folders. Wish I could read Japanese. The postage
rate in Japan is very high and almost doubles the cost of these books when
purchased either in the USA (I get mine from Kinokuniya) or from Japan
direct. Each issue costs me about $34 (in Los Angeles), but I still think it
is a good value. The latest issue is #12. In addition to the quarterly
publication a diagram only volume #1 has been published with volume #2 due to
be published shortly. Hope this helps.

Terry Hall
terryh@lamg.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sun, 19 May 1996 19:18:17 -0300 (ADT)
From: "J. Jernigan" <jjernign@niia.net>
Subject: Bases

Many have written that they started with a classic base, and then they
did something, or they made up a variation of a base.  Now,
unfortunately, I didn't follow the writings on the details of who owns
what when it comes to diagrams, but can somebody do 1 of 3 things:  1:
Send me diagrams of the classic bases,  2: Direct me to a page where I
can find that, or 3: Tell me a book that has them in it.

                                 Happy Folding,
                                   John





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 08:44:02 -0300 (ADT)
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re: diagramming hints

I am interested in starting a discussion on diagramming.  I would like hints
for diagramming and your favorite tricks.  One trick that someone told me is
to make step folds and then to photocopy them with the lid open.  This gives
a much sharper image of the folds.  I would be interested in any other that
yu have other than doing the diagrams on the computer. Dorigami.....(I am
wondering if my mail is going thru because I never seem to get any answers to
my questions.  Can someone signal me that my replies to all are coming thru.)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 08:48:03 -0300 (ADT)
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re: origami.com ???

Eric wrote
Hi everyone! I did a who is query on origami.com (to see who owns the domain
name) and I came up with this:
>From Dorigami:   I would like to know more about this person
too so so that I know about the workings of this listserver.....Any one have
any info to share on this subject? Dorigami





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 08:51:15 -0300 (ADT)
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: no mail

Just wondering....there was just one E-mail on the l7th of May and one E-mail
on the 18th in the letterbox.  Since there are usually at least 10 or more a
day....how does this happen.  I thought maybe I had been taken off the list
but this morning there was one  letter. Dorigami





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:03:23 -0300 (ADT)
From: mym@fuwutai.att.com
Subject: Re: Thanks for Your Patience!

Bren,

I think I speak for most of us out here in cyper-space when I say we understand
and really enjoy the web site. And let's not forget the wonderful mail order
service you provide. Keep up the good wook!

Mark McKinnon





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 11:13:04 -0300 (ADT)
From: Martin Gibbs <mrg1001@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: no mail

  I'm glad to hear someone else say that.  I was getting a bit worried
myself.  I look forward to logging on to E-mail at any time of the day and
having lots of origami messages.  But there's been a dearth of messages.
My guess is that a lot of students on this list (myself included) are
revising for exams soon and so don't have much time to write E-mail.  But
why our non-student people haven't been writing so much either I don't
know.  Some people can only E-mail from work I suppose and so the weekend
is sometimes rather quiet.  Let's hope people start writing again soon!

  Martin Gibbs.
  mrg1001@hermes.cam.ac.uk

On Mon, 20 May 1996 DORIGAMI@aol.com wrote:

> Just wondering....there was just one E-mail on the l7th of May and one E-mail
> on the 18th in the letterbox.  Since there are usually at least 10 or more a
> day....how does this happen.  I thought maybe I had been taken off the list
> but this morning there was one  letter. Dorigami





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Mon, 20 May 1996 13:23:57 -0300 (ADT)
From: casida@ere.umontreal.ca (Casida Mark)
Subject: Re: no mail

Well, here in Canada, it is a 3 day weekend.  Today is Victoria Day
(Fete de Dollard Desormeaux in Quebec).  So that may account for
some small amount of decreased list traffic.

                                 ... Mark
--
*-------------------------------------------------------*
|          Mark E. Casida                               |
|          e-mail: casida@chimcn.umontreal.ca           |
