




Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 00:34:07 -0400
From: Bren Riesinger <fascfold@fascinating-folds.com>
Subject: Need Washi Information Please

Greetings -
I would like to ask for help on a project.

On my website, in the section for "Articles of Interest", I would like to
present a variety of topics.  I would like to invite your comments and
"input" on the subject of Washi Paper.  There are many beautiful varieties;
both traditional prints and more modern ones, textures, qualities, colors,
inks, etc.

Some of the more common varieties are:
Wazome, Unryu, Chiyogami, Arasuji, Mizutama, Miyabi, Hakutsuru, Yuzen,
Mingei, Irodorino, Pikapika, Moji, and Seikaiha.  I would like to define the
differences, and talk a little about each variety - and about any other
varieties.

I would really appreciate any assistance.
Thank You -
Bren
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
- - - - - - - - - - -
Fascinating Folds
Rediscover the ancient craft of Origami, Japanese paper-folding, with
our extensive line of Origami papers and books.
http://www.fascinating-folds.com/paper





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 00:58:56 -0400
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Business card origami

1. Jeannine Moseley is on the list, but may not be "back" from
the holidays, or else is engaged in building another 2nd order fractal,
on her way to the ultimate 3rd order godzilla, alias Serpinski
Sponge.  :-)

2. The Stamm electronic 'zine, is short, 3-4 pages, available as
I recall in GIF, and common ground format for MAC & PC (with the
viewer built in). I've had no trouble printing either version.
It contains one set of diagrams per issue. I'm not a fan of
on-line reading either; partly because my vision ain't what it
used to be, and partly because I just like books and paper stuff.

3. If you look a little more carefully at the origami-l archive
site you will find the message traffic from the list in sets by
date. There are files in each directory with "index" in the name.
These are plain text indexes to: at the higher level, what dates
are in what directories/files.

At the next level of directory, the index
file gives the message date, sender, and subject. These are short
enough to view online. The bigger indexes, as I recall are also
zipped, or at any rate not an unmanagable download, and the indexes
with the subject headings are an easy DL. Fetch some from 1994 and
1995, get off line and turn any file text search utility loose on
them looking for "Moseley" & "card". Then just go get the pertinent
clumps of messages, zipped or plain.

Our honorable archivist has done an excellent job of making this
archived traffic accessible to everyone with all levels of hardware,
and it really isn't that tough to find what you want.

Ok, I stand corrected, Joseph's page doesn't have a hyper/pointer to
the archive site, but I believe the FTP site is given in the stuff
about the list. Anyway, there's a message on the list every month
with the subject "archives once a month" with the facts for anybody
who's lost it. (the address, I mean :-) Actually I haven't tried
Lycos on "origami", already having all the addresses I can use now,
but I do know I turned the archive site up with a gopher search
several times. Time was, it was the ONLY thing you'd turn up with
a search on "origami".

Anyway, you know how to get there, and now you know
how to find out what's in the files.

--valerie





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 01:44:29 -0400
From: Laurie Bisman <lbisman@sirranet.co.nz>
Subject: RE: origami newsgroups

For those outside the UK (It may work in the UK but I have been told it doesn't
     - there is a local UK method) the newshost id is

        pubnews.demon.co.uk

But be prepared... there are over eleven thousand different news groups!

Laurie Bisman...





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 03:03:06 -0400
From: slider@ims.mariposa.ca.us (Pat Slider)
Subject: RE: origami newsgroups

We asked our local internet service if they could carry the origami
newsgroups.  He replied as follows:

                        **********************

The 'alt' groups are managed automatically to avoid the rmgroup/newgroup
wars.  The management program uses the frequency with which we receive
articles, rather than control messages, in determining whether to keep a group.

At present an 'alt' group must receive two postings in a 24-hour period to
be adopted by IMS.  It will then be retained as long as we receive at least
one posting per day.

For comparison, the normal rule of thumb is that a mailing list should
generate 40 messages per day before being converted to a newsgroup.  Perhaps
half of the newsgroups we receive wouldn't pass that benchmark.

The two origami groups show a combined traffic of one message (for
alt.arts.origami) in the last week - not enough to be activated.  If I
activated them manually they would be removed automatically.  (This means
that most sites don't carry them as they're not even receiving spams.)

                        *************************

Perhaps the world is not ready for origami newsgroups yet?

(My provider also kindly told me that there was an origami mailing list
:->.  I am content.  I find it is easier to read my email than my
newsgroups as long as the traffic is fairly low.)

pat slider.





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 10:17:03 -0400
From: Nick Robinson <nick@homelink.demon.co.uk>
Subject: Creating A4 proportions...

I must admit to finding some of the recent suggestions rather confusing! Here's
my 3 'happorth;

1) Start with a square (this applies to any rectangle tho...)
2) Crease a diagonal (heavily - you can reduce this when expert!)
3) Fold a side to lie along the diagonal, making 1/2 a kite base
4) Fold the top triangle of the kite down, crease & return
5) Unfold completely
6) Make a crease parallel to either side that cuts through the intersection of
the diagonal & crease made in step 4.
7) Remove the smaller rectangle created in the last step.

Hey presto, A4 proportions.

Nick Robinson





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 11:46:45 -0400
From: Jennifer Andre <JAndre@cfipro.com>
Subject: Newsgroups, eh?

     What were those addresses, again?  How does one access a newsgroup?
     I'm new at this Internet thing, so please type slowly!  (I've already
     sent this message to the wrong place...Heaven only knows what I've
     subscribed myself to...)

     Thanks!
     Jennifer (JAndre@cfipro.com)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 12:37:56 -0400
From: Jennifer.Campbell@cciw.ca (Jennifer Campbell)
Subject: Attn: Business Card Frog Seekers!

Hello,

I am flattered by the interest shown in the business card frog and will
mail the diagrams to those who have requested. Please believe me--I did not
intend to generate such a response with my inadvertent post. I did not
intend to crow about my little accomplishment especially since there are
many modest, more prolific and talented designers on this list.

Several people have assumed that it is in digital form. I have a shocking
confession to make--it is on paper! Drawn with a ruler and pen! As Jennifer
Andre said to me in a private mailing, I should tell my employer I wish to
make sending graphics electronically part of my "skill set", and they
should let me learn how to do this using an innocent origami diagram. She
is right. And they would let me, too. I believe we have more than the toys
necessary to accomplish this. When I've got more time, I'd love to explore
it. If it weren't for the ongoing conflict over formats and methods, I'd
love to try it this time around, except you would all have to wait a long
time for the frog...

So I'll use snail mail for now. Everyone can read that. One small problem:
I live in Canada and every respondent so far, I believe, lives in the USA
(except Laurie Bisman?)! Cross-border SASEs are difficult: you are unlikely
to be able to obtain Canadian stamps, Intl coupons cost $3.00 (way more
than the 52 cents CDN required) and I can't see Americans calling up the
Philatelic Centre in Halifax to order one raw 52-cent stamp for postage
purposes! Since I have gotten a real kick out of snail-mail correspondence
with other members in the past, I am still willing to mail the diagrams.
All I ask is that you send me an e-mail when the diagrams arrive (or hey,
if you've got a design of your own...)

If this starts to cost me too much, I may ask if an American is willing to
take up the requests on a SASE basis. Or I may get my act together and go
digital.

These are people who have sent me their mailing address. Frog on the way soon:
-Yaacov Metzger
-Bernie Cosell
-Justin Vandenbroucke
-Cara Beth Stevenson
-Steve Buck
-Niboru Higuchi? at JP Trading. Please verify your name and if you want the
diagrams sent to your work address

These are people who have requested the diagrams but have not yet sent me
their mailing addresses:
-Jennifer Andre
-Laurie Bisman
-Yan Lau
-Troy Tate
-Chris Miller
-Mary Ellen (mailing via Ken Tesa)
-E. Alexander Gerster

Regards,
Jennifer.

       /\_/\       ________
     `(     )' oo /        \
       `==='     | Maguro o |
       /   \     |  kudasai |
      |     |     \________/
      |     |
    ___\___/__Jennifer.Campbell@cciw.ca





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 13:45:17 -0400
From: Sheldon Ackerman <ackerman@dorsai.dorsai.org>
Subject: Re: Newsgroups, eh?

>
>      What were those addresses, again?  How does one access a newsgroup?
>      I'm new at this Internet thing, so please type slowly!  (I've already
>      sent this message to the wrong place...Heaven only knows what I've
>      subscribed myself to...)
>
>      Thanks!
>      Jennifer (JAndre@cfipro.com)
>
>
There are lots and lots of newgroups out there. At Dorsai, my local Internet
provider, I have access to about 8500 of them. The two origami ones are not
included. I have requested them and such requests are generally honored.

The two groups mentioned were:
alt.arts.origami
alt.binaries.pictures.origami

You have to find out if you have Usenet access (access to newsgroups)
through whatever provider you use. Then you have to find out what reader
they have so that you can read your news. I used "tin", but there are many
more newsreaders around.

--
Sheldon Ackerman.......http://www.dorsai.org/~ackerman/
ackerman@dorsai.dorsai.org
sheldon.ackerman@nycps.nycenet.edu





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 15:14:52 -0400
From: hender@ix.netcom.com (mike henderson )
Subject: Re: Attn: Business Card Frog Seekers!

               A frog out of a business card sounds great. Please add
my name to your list.

                           Mike Henderson
                           138 Hunter
                           Cedar Hill, TX 75104-5104
                           U.S.A.

P.S. If I could be of help let me know. And let me know if we can make
a trade.





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 16:29:53 -0400
From: "Sergei Y. Afonkin" <sergei@origami.nit.spb.su>
Subject: Origami Video?

Dear folders,

When I was in Great Britain last (already last...how time flies!) year
and participated in BOS Convention,  I have seen several origami video
records. For example "Mathematical Eye" and another one  with  origami
lessons by Paul Jackson. I suppose that some other exist.

If you  have  them  and  if  you would like to show these video during
First Russian Convention "Origami and  Education"  (23-24  March)  you
could send  them  via  snail  mail  to  our Center's address with your
special comments:

193318 Russia
St.Petersburg
P.O. Box 377
Origami Center
c/o Sergei Afonkin

Without any doubt we'll send them back after the Convention.
May be  it is crazy idea,  I do not know,  but on the one hand some of
you could participate in our Convention as  foreign  spirits,  on  the
other hand  it  is  good  chance  to  show  something unusual for many
russian teachers,  nurses and russian origami funs.

If you have any information about origami video, please write!

Your Sergei Afonkin (sergei@origami.nit.spb.su)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 16:43:43 -0400
From: casida@ere.umontreal.ca (Casida Mark)
Subject: Re: Re: Kawasaki Rose II

>
> I am also interested.
>
> John Marcolina
>

me too.

--
*-------------------------------------------------------*
|          Mark E. Casida                               |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
|          B-605 Pavillon principal                     |
|          Departement de chimie          \_____/       |
|          Universite de Montreal         /\0|0/\       |
|          Case postale 6128              | | | |       |
|          Succursale centre-ville        \/   \/       |
|          Montreal, Quebec H3C 3J7    -----"-"----     |
|          Canada                                       |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
|          tel: (514) 343-6111 poste/extension 3901     |
|          e-mail: casida@chimcn.umontreal.ca           |
|          fax: (514) 343-2468                          |





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 17:42:51 -0400
From: JENEVOLD@aol.com
Subject: Fuse Box inserts

It's ancient history, now, but I originally subscribed to this list asking
for help with directions for the neat little inserts pictured in the octagon
box in Tomoko Fuses book "Origami Boxes".

It was a long time ago and I received a few replies of sympathy but nobody
seemed able to point me in a useful direction. I've stayed and learned a lot
in the meanwhile, and I thank you all very much.

Well, now maybe I can help anyone else who could use this information! I was
browsing at the Kinokuniya bookstore in Seattle and found a whole series of
Fuse books in Japanese, some on boxes, one of which contains the directions
for the inserts! Hurrah! Of course, now I feel I should have been able to
figure them out for myself, but my attempts were never so pleasing.

I can't tell the name of the book since I don't know Japanese, but the ISBN
is 4-480-87115-2, and I can guess it's number 5 in some series, because the
front cover begins with a word and the numeral 5. It has an orange spine. It
contains elaborations on the 4- and up sided boxes from the Origami Boxes I
have in English. Of course, the price is a little daunting; I keep telling
myself it's not paper I'm paying for, it's creativity.

Gee, it feels good to contribute!

Julie





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 18:13:57 -0400
From: Jeannine Mosely <j9@concentra.com>
Subject: Re: Origami Video?

Sergei Afonkin recently asked list members to send (on loan) origami
videos to be shown at the First Russian Convention Origami and
Education (23-24 March).  I imagine that Russian televisions and video
players operate on the PAL system, unlike American and Canadian
televisions, which use the wholly incompatible NTSC system.  So unless
Sergei can get the format converted, you needn't bother sending him
your Michael LaFosse (or any other American) tapes.  Too bad.

        -- jeannine mosely





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 18:53:00 -0400
From: Jennifer Andre <JAndre@cfipro.com>
Subject: Fuse's Boxes

     Way to go, Julie!!!

     I have a nice little collection of what potentially could be an
     octagonal box.  However, due to my inability to follow what are
     probably simple instructions, the "box" rather resembles four pieces
     of crumpled origami paper.  Can you or anyone who has read this far
     please pass along any assembly advice?

     Thanks!
     Jennifer (JAndre@cfipro.com)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 19:46:41 -0400
From: Tom Conally <conally@netpath.net>
Subject: Re: Attn: Business Card Frog Seekers!

Hi.
   Don,t use postage, take your sketch to a graphics service outlet and have
them scan the sketch into either jpeg or gif file. put it on your computer
and treat it like a regular file to attach to e-mail. Happy New Year to all!!!

                                    ---Tom C---

 <<<<<<<<<<  Chemistry is life itself  >>>>>>>>>>
    "Knowledge and timber shouldn't be much used
     till they are seasoned ."  Oliver Wendell Holmes
 <<<< WA4IVR>>>><<<<conally@netpath.net>>>>





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Thu, 4 Jan 1996 22:26:15 -0400
From: "MARGARET M. BARBER" <mbarber@welchlink.welch.jhu.edu>
Subject: Re: Kawasaki rose II

I too would be interested in receiving diagrams please.





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 00:53:30 -0400
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re: Level 2 Sierpinski sponge? argh.....

Jeanine,  Well when you put it that way it took me 11 months to complete a 9
x 12 braided rug....the last row took 3 hours to braid and 3 hours to lace.
 A 3 x 5 hooked rug took me about 150 hours to complete....That was in the
days when I was a hooker. (of rugs)  I know about delayed gratification all
right.  Rugmaking was my first long term hobby and when I met up with Origami
gradually it took first place in my heart.  It's been 34 years.....





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 01:07:49 -0400
From: Fred Curtis <fred@zip.com.au>
Subject: Re: Kawasaki rose II

> I too would be interested in receiving diagrams please.

Could people *please* send messages that are intended for one person
via email instead of posting them to the whole group.

Cheers,
-Fred, who reads his email during the day over a *very* slow link
 and who appreciates any reduction in junk.





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 04:22:50 -0400
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: RE: origami newsgroups

<< ..not even receiving spams...>>

Oh goodie, finally a justification for spamming! :-)

OK, everybody who's interested in the origami newsgroups,
(we don't get 'em at work, and I can barely keep up with
email anyway...) round up a bunch of 14 page diagrams
and spam the heck out of those newsgroups... At the
very least it will prove there are SOME .alt groups
certain government officials can't object to,
at least until someone posts "The Flasher" diagrams,
or some of the Japanese erotic models. Though come to
think of it, there's probably some censorial prude out
there who'll think "alt.origami" IS an erotic/obscene subject...
:-)

--valerie





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 04:25:44 -0400
From: Valerie Vann <75070.304@compuserve.com>
Subject: Re: Fuse Box inserts

Julie,

Sounds like you've found a copy (set?) of the original Fuse
series; I'll have to check the ISBN to be sure. These are
apparently out of print now, though OUSA's supply center
used to carry them. OUSA does still carry Japanese Fuse
books, though you kind of have to ID them by the ISBN:
I always write their English title translation and put my
own table of contents in so I can find the one I want. (I
have about 30 Fuse books now...)

On first glance this early series has many of the same models
as later books, including the big English "Unit Origami", but
there are lots of differences. You can track the evolution and
refinement of many of her works. Also there are some rather
neat boxes and things in the early series that don't appear
elsewhere. An octagon domed lid comes to mind. The diagrams
were rather tricky and almost judgement folds in places, so
I did some revisions once, but the result was really neat.

Well worth acquiring if you can find them...

--valerie





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 09:24:21 -0400
From: ciarlma6@etud.dauphine.fr (ciarlet mathieu)
Subject: folding with cutting instruments

        Hi everyone
        and "une bonne annee et bonne sante",

I know it's beginning to be late for wishes but I wanted to send them to you all
Now another matter more related with my subject. I am used to and love folding
rather small origamis - I usually work with squares from 1cm^2 to 9cm^2 - and
need from time to time tools, especially sharp ones (knives, cutters...). But
     as it cut it needs to be done smoothly and gently. So ....
I'll precise the method of using a knife or something sharp
to make some fold. What you must take in account is the thickness of
the paper. What I mean is that for a very thick paper you just have to
press the blade onto the paper to obtain a valley fold, and flip it for
a mountain fold. Now when you use a solid paper, if you wish to obtain
a valley fold you'll to pass the blade onto the opposite side. Furthermore
your cut must be strong enough so that you cut the upper surface of
the paper; hence when you fold it, the paper will tear itself on its surface
-that's why the cut mustn't be too dip- and you'll obtain a more
solid and durable fold.
Have my explanations been clear enough ?
If anyone had ever used this method or want to discuss about it, I'll be glad
to.

        So everyone, hasta la vista.
        "Pace e Salute" (Same meaning as happy new year in Corsican)

        Mathieu Ciarlet               ciarlma6@etud.dauphine.fr
        "may the fold be with you"

P.S. : How's the 1000 thousand cranes affair going? I haven't had any news for
        some time.





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.CA>
Date: Fri, 05 Jan 1996 09:33:02 -0400
From: Bernie Cosell <bernie@fantasyfarm.COM>
Subject: List configuraton of "Reply-to" field

On  5 Jan 96 at 1:10, Fred Curtis wrote:

> > I too would be interested in receiving diagrams please.
>
> Could people *please* send messages that are intended for one person
> via email instead of posting them to the whole group.

NB: I'm intentionally addressing this to the whole list because I believe
this is something that the list members ought to have a 'vote' on.  (at
least, I give them a vote on the lists I administer):

One of the configuration options for this blasted automated mailing lists
is "what to set the reply-to field to".  The default for these lists is
"reply to the list".  I've always believed that that's the *wrong* thing,
except for the most stuffy of serious discussion lists [where there is
essentially no personal traffic].  My reasoning here is twofold:

1) Many folk *do* want to send personal replies... in many cases [for
example, in ablut 2/3rds of the mail in the last week!] the "Re:"s really
*ALL* were personal messages.  Most weren't a disaster to have sent out
to the list, but it still was a bit awkward at times [occasionally you
really do get something *very* non-public leaked out to the whole list by
mistake.  Oops!].  Making the default be "reply to sender" makes things
less dangerous: if something meant to be public is sent personally,
that's easy enough to fix [send it again, or ask the recipient to
"resend" it to the list]; when you send something personal to the list by
mistake the damage is done, by a hundredfold, and you can't undo it.

   2) For many folk, it is virtually impossible to send a person reply
if you wish to.  Many of us (not me, as it turns out), use mailers that
make it *very* difficult to send a reply that does _not_ honor the
"reply-to" field.  I know that on a mail system I used a few years back,
ended up having to do is create a *new* message, by-hand make its subject
be "Re: ..." and by-hand cut and past the original message into the reply.
By contrast, if you make "to sender" be the default and a person wishes to
send a reply to the entire list, then it is a simple matter in almost
everyones mailer to do "add a cc: <thelist>" to the message.

Anyhow, I don't know if the list adminsitrator is actually *ON* this list
[I know that I administer a list or two that I'm not on!], but we might
try to come to some consensus on how we would like this to work and then
ask the list-admin to change the config [if, in fact, changing to "reply
_very_strongly_ for changing to "reply to sender".

  /bernie\
--
Bernie Cosell                     Fantasy Farm Fibers
bernie@fantasyfarm.com            Pearisburg, VA
    -->  Too many people, too few sheep  <--





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 09:44:24 -0400
From: kkinney@med.unc.edu (Kevin Kinney)
Subject: Public/Private Posts

> Could people *please* send messages that are intended for one person
> via email instead of posting them to the whole group.
>
> Cheers,
> -Fred, who reads his email during the day over a *very* slow link
>  and who appreciates any reduction in junk.

I second Fred's request, and add this:  To make doing so easier, *please*
make sure that your personal e-mail address is embedded somewhere in the
TEXT of your message (most have it as part of the .sig, or signature).
Some of our systems trim off the originators' address, leaving only the
group address (in this case the ori-l address), and when a reply is
framed, the systems reply to the whole list (yes, it's an awful system,
but I'm sure I'm not the only one still stuck with it.  Incidentally, the
origami list is the only one I'm on that has this problem).  In other
words, if you don't directly include your address, the only way we can
reply is to the whole list.  The list is great, but we *really* don't need
it cluttered with "me too's"

Thanks,
        Kevin Kinney
               kkinney@med.unc.edu





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 09:55:55 -0400
From: Nick Robinson <Nick@homelink.demon.co.uk>
Subject: newsgroups - to bother or not to bother?

I haven't seen the new groups either, but don't feel I shall be
downloading too often - I've tried a couple of the milder binaries
groups, plus a few others & the only adjective that stands out is
SLLLLOOOOOWWWWWW. This may well be due to overuse rather than the
technology itself, but it would be far too expensive. For 90% of
the day, the Demon news-server simply reports "busy", meaning "s*d
off & try again later". Major hassle compared to the ease of the
listserver.

I take it neither group is moderated & therefore a low signal to
noise ratio likely.

However, lets be positive - once the bandwidth is wide enough for me to
join in, I shall.

Nick
Robinson





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 10:41:23 -0400
From: rshuster@netaxs.com (Bob Shuster)
Subject: site moved!

Hi y'all - happy new year!  I'm happy to say my origami pages are moving to
a new site!  The old one was and is unreliable and down as much as up, so I
found a brand new server in my area (I plan to switch to him as my provider
too as soon as he has the lines in.)

At any rate - the pages will be at both locations for a while, but there
will be no improvements made at the old location.  Soon , I will remove the
pages from the old site and just put pointers up to the new one.

Please change your pointers!  The old URL for my origami page is:

http://www.netaxs.com/~rshuster/origami.html

The *new* URL (operational right now!) is:

http://www.newtech.net/webwerks/origami.html

The old URL for my origami hotlist is:

http://www.netaxs.com/~rshuster/hotlist.html#origami

The *new* URL is:

http://www.newtech.net/webwerks/hotlist.html#origami

No, I haven't made the sweeping changes promised yet, but I'm working on
it!  Please be patient!  :)   Happy Folding   - Bob

      = = =      /| Bob Shuster -  Composer/Arranger/Copyist/MIDI & Computer
[>----|-|-|-----/ |  Consultant (& trumpet!) - now Web Page Design too!
  (___|_|_|____)\ |  email: rshuster@netaxs.com       phone: 215-927-4928
      " " "      \|  music: http://www.newtech.net/musikwerks.html
                     web design: http://www.newtech.net/webwerks/





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 10:44:12 -0400
From: Rjlang@aol.com
Subject: TreeMaker 3.5 is on the archives

Hi all,

I recently completed and Maarten has kindly posted the latest version of
TreeMaker (version 3.5) in the archives, available via ftp at
rugcis.rug.nl/programs/origami/TreeMaker. The file "Trmkr35.hqx" is a
binhexed Macintosh self-extracting archive of the TreeMaker application and
documentation. (The other files in this directory are earlier versions -- 2.0
and 3.0, to be exact).

For those who missed earlier posts on the subject, TreeMaker is a program
that designs origami bases. You enter the number of flaps you want, their
relative lengths, and how they're connected together (you do this by drawing
a stick figure of the base) and Treemaker computes and prints out a crease
pattern that folds up into a base with the desired configuration of flaps.

Version 3.5 includes about 20 enhancements over version 3.0, including tools
for adding/removing flaps to/from an existing base and multiple options for
how the final crease pattern is generated. Also several improvements/tweaks
to the user interface. You need a Macintosh to run it.

If you download it and try it out, drop me a line with your experiences,
especially if you use it to design something.

Robert J. Lang
rjlang@aol.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 10:49:33 -0400
From: casida@ere.umontreal.ca (Casida Mark)
Subject: Re: List configuraton of "Reply-to" field

Personally I vote for keeping the current configuration of the
list.  I have enjoyed "ease dropping" on several interesting replies
and feel that I have learned a lot.  The consistent use of subject
lines to follow "conversations" works very well for me.  I think
this is sufficient for the most part.  Finally, I would like to add
that I really appreciate the informal nature of this list as opposed
to professional lists I'm subscribed to where it is highly encouraged
that the subscribers think thrice before posting a reply and
the resultant conversation is probably a bit stiffled.  I do not
think that the origami list has reached the volume of mail yet
where this is necessary.      ... Mark

P.S. My appologies for having publically posted a "me too".

--
*-------------------------------------------------------*
|          Mark E. Casida                               |
|          e-mail: casida@chimcn.umontreal.ca           |





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:41:37 -0400
From: JRMetzger@aol.com
Subject: Re: Attn: Business Card Frog Seekers!

In a message dated 96-01-04 14:10:02 EST, you write:

>
>I am flattered by the interest shown in the business card frog and will
>mail the diagrams to those who have requested. Please believe me--I did not
..
>Several people have assumed that it is in digital form. I have a shocking
>confession to make--it is on paper! Drawn with a ruler and pen! As Jennifer
..
>it. If it weren't for the ongoing conflict over formats and methods, I'd
>love to try it this time around, except you would all have to wait a long
>time for the frog...
>
>So I'll use snail mail for now. Everyone can read that. One small problem:
..
>If this starts to cost me too much, I may ask if an American is willing to
>take up the requests on a SASE basis. Or I may get my act together and go
>digital.
>
>These are people who have sent me their mailing address. Frog on the way
>soon:
>-Yaacov Metzger
..
Jennifer -

Thanks. I tell you what - as soon as I get your frog via mail, I'll scan it
in to GIF/JPG/BMP formats, convert them to UUencoded format, and send them
back to you via EMail. This way you'll be able to send future copies via
EMail. I'll also try to post to the archives (if I can). OK?

Yaacov





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:50:04 -0400
From: Jennifer.Campbell@cciw.ca (Jennifer Campbell)
Subject: VOTE Re: List configuraton of "Reply-to" field

Hi all,

Yes, I was caught in precisely the scenario Bernie Cosell described [in his
post at 9:33 AM 1/5/96 List Configuration of "Reply-to" field], ie.
personal mail inadvertently sent to the list because the default "Reply-to"
is set to the list instead of the original sender.

However I disagree that this default be changed.

-I don't blame the software. It was just carelessness on my part. If I know
the sender's address, I cut and paste it over the list address when I
reply. If not, I resort to the "assemble a reply by hand" method Bernie
described. Either way, this really isn't a big deal. I just forgot. I think
"dangerous" is too strong a word--this is origami, not national security!

We are a discussion GROUP. We're not some stuffy academic list with members
who feel obligated to be there...

-If the default reply is set to sender, the group may may miss out on some
interesting topics. Perspective will be narrowed; fewer members will be
able to participate in a particular thread because they may never become
aware it is going on or be able to follow its development.

-Everyone would have to relearn a now-familiar procedure. Say a member
assumes a reply is to the list and wishes it to be so. Sends a message and
it goes to the original sender instead. IF the member notices/remembers and
re-sends the message to the list, the "private recipient" gets the message
twice. (CC would have the same effect). If the member does not notice (and
the "private recipient" doesn't forward it to the list either), a message
intended for the whole group to read may never get there...

-As Kevin Kinney stressed earlier this morning [9:44 AM Public/Private
Posts] we should IMPLORE people to put their email address within the text
of the message (ie., in their signature). Not just for origami-l, but for
anyone who uses email. Then, even if the sender's address is stripped off
by the mailer, one would always be able to reply to the sender if desired.

-and "natural justice" seems to continue to provide the occasional gentle
reprimand for the "me-to's" who reply to the list. I'd guess that most
public "me-too's" are a result of carelessness, not lack of manners.

Speaking of netiquette, I've spoken too long. So I vote Nay.
Jennifer.

       /\_/\       ________
     `(     )' oo /        \
       `==='     | Maguro o |
       /   \     |  kudasai |
      |     |     \________/
      |     |
    ___\___/__Jennifer.Campbell@cciw.ca





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 11:57:50 -0400
From: A004773%LBVM1.profs@lbgwy.mdc.com
Subject: personal replies

 Often these messages are of value to more than just the recipient...
 keep them coming.

 John Andrisan
 IBMMAIL: USMCDQND   Internet: a004773%lbvm1.profs@lbgwy.mdc.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 14:03:04 -0400
From: chall@scsn.net (Carol Hall)
Subject: how to reply

As is always the case in discussion groups, there are some people who are
new to the system and *concept* and thus are unfamiliar with how things
work.  For the benefit of those folks who are currently on origami-l and who
fall into that category, I offer a few basics.  After these basics, I offer
my opinion on the current topic of what the default reply should be.

1. Discussion groups are meant to be public discussions of some topic, so if
you have something specific to say to a particular person which probably
will not be of interest to the entire group, it is not something to send to
the entire group (or list of people subscribing).

2. This list (and many other, if not most lists) has a default reply set to
the entire list.  This means that if you just press the "Reply" button, your
message will be sent to the entire list.  You need to pay attention to this!

3. If you want to send a personal reply to a message which appears on the
list, you must deliberately send a message _to that person_.  You cannot
just "Reply".
This is what people mean when they say, "Reply privately."  Each mail system
has a slightly different method of composing those private messages, but the
key is not to press the "Reply" button.  You can usually check where a
"Reply" button response will go by looking at the header above the text of
the message for the "Reply to" line.  That will tell you where an automatic
"Reply" will be sent.
[By the way, a response which simply says "Me too" is of little help even if
it only goes to one person.  Tell them "I would like <whatever>]

4. People (especially old hands at discussion lists) may tend to get annoyed
at repeated mistakes along this line.  This tends to be because the more
folks use e-mail, the more their e-mailboxes fill up and it takes time to go
through all of it.  Consideration (and attention) on the sender's part is
appreciated by all!

Now, all that said, I guess I would vote for keeping the reply going to the
list for the following reasons:
Generally, it only takes one or two personal or observed mistakes for folks
message appeared back in their mail.  If nothing else, this helps people to
learn more about how discussion groups work.

If the reply was set to the sender's address, folks unfamiliar with this
system might never know what they are doing wrong or why the messages they
think they send out to the entire list don't seem to get there. (I know that
some people assume that if they sent it, it won't come back to them.  They
don't realize that only one other person is getting the message.)

I prefer to err on the side of public, because there are many who have
valuable contributions and questions who may be hesitant to speak, or think
that they have nothing to contribute.  Just one posting, even if it is by
mistake, which gets responses from others allows folks to realize that
everyone has valuable thoughts that others can appreciate.

If the cost of gleaning neat ideas by accident is to quickly go through a
few "Me toos", that is a price I am willing to pay. [I might also add that
replies to the list can cut down on traffic as well.  This is certainly the
case when someone asks for a reference. If the reply is private there is
sure to be another message or two asking for someone to post the reference
to the whole list.]

Carol Hall
chall@scsn.net  (and yes, everyone should include their personal address
next to their name!)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:17:43 -0400
From: Richard Kennedy <KENNEDRA@ibm3090.bham.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Fuse Box inserts

There is a bibliography of the books by Tomoko Fuse, which includes the
Japanese title (including kanji) - so you can recognise the characters,
a romanised version of the title - so you've got something to say, and
a fairly literal translation of the title. It also includes ISBN's,
publisher and publication details. I think it is complete to the end of
1994. I'm afraid I can't remember the author. It has been made available
to BOS members by Joan Homewood, the editor of the BOS magazine. I guess
if you send her some really juicy stamps, she might send a copy to
someone in the States. I don't know if there are restrictions on
distribution outside BOS. Nick Robinson or Penny Groom might know, as
they're on the BOS Council, as is John Smith.

Richard K
(R.A.Kennedy@birmingham.ac.uk)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:21:41 -0400
From: Jim Hollister 512-356-7027 <Jim.Hollister@sematech.org>
Subject: Re: Please delete me from this list

          Thanks for the info about unsubscribing. I've recently gotten
          interested in origami but I wasn't prepared for the volume of mail
          I'd receive from the mailing list. I bought an origami book and
          some paper a couple of months ago and I've been working through it
          sequentially. I've been able to make about 10 different models so
          far. Seems to be a good stress-management activity. Maybe you can
          help me with a few of my questions:

          Is there a group of like-minded people here in Austin?

          Where can I find origami paper locally?

          I bought some nice foil-backed wrapping paper at The Container
          Store and I've been making models from that. Is there an easy way
          to cut accurate squares? I've been using a woodworking square and
          a pair of scissors.

          The more models I learn to make the more I rely on diagrams to help
          me remember the steps. Do experienced folders (origamists?) do this
          from memory?

          I've discovered that folding the models seems to be the most fun
          when I have someone to give them to when I'm finished. Children
          seem to enjoy them the most. It's a good activity for airplane
          trips: it's portable, it passes the time, and there are usually
          bored children around to give the models to. They also make a
          unique alternative to bows on Chrismas presents.

          Thanks for the phone message as well.

          Jim





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 15:45:22 -0400
From: Jeannine Mosely <j9@concentra.com>
Subject: Re: Level 2 Sierpinski sponge? argh.....

I'm beginning to think I could build the sponge myself faster than it
will take me to organize my helpers.  But I'd still rather do it as a
group.  If you think hooking rugs takes time, try picking, sorting,
washing and spinning a fleece and then knitting a sweater from the
yarn.  (Not to mention learning to turn wood in order to make
replacement parts for the spinning wheel.  I'd grow the trees for the
wood, but I don't have time.)  But at least then you have a sweater.
What good is a business card fractal sponge?

        -- jeannine mosely (j9@concentra.com)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 16:08:32 -0400
From: casida@ere.umontreal.ca (Casida Mark)
Subject: Re: Level 2 Sierpinski sponge? argh.....

> What good is a business card fractal sponge?
>
>       -- jeannine mosely (j9@concentra.com)

What good is a dream?  Lots!  Keep up the good thoughts.
                                                  ... Mark

P.S. I remember that the artist Cristo used to dream up these
     incredible ideas, such as hanging a curtain across the
     Snake River Canyon, running a fence across the Marin hills,
     wrapping an Australian shoreline.  Even better, he could
     capture enough people's imaginations to get the $$$ to
     actually carry out these projects!  Sharing your dreams
     can help to make them happen.

--
*-------------------------------------------------------*
|          Mark E. Casida                               |
|          e-mail: casida@chimcn.umontreal.ca           |





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 17:44:50 -0400
From: A004773%LBVM1.profs@lbgwy.mdc.com
Subject: Fractals

 How about a Sierpinski Sweater?

 John Andrisan
 IBMMAIL: USMCDQND   Internet: a004773%lbvm1.profs@lbgwy.mdc.com





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:03:42 -0400
From: Laurie Bisman <lbisman@sirranet.co.nz>
Subject: Folding, Memory 'n stuff...

Jim Hollister - a relatively new folder wrote...

      The more models I learn to make the more I rely on diagrams to help
      me remember the steps. Do experienced folders (origamists?) do
                       this from memory?

It seems to be with me, that the more models I learn, the easier it is to
remember them. Perhaps it's like jokes, you hear one and it reminds you of
another and so on..

Over the 30 or so years that I have been folding, I have often wondered how
many models I have made, people always say, "how many things can you make?"
- a very tricky question as you make the ones you know, the ones you learn,
but there is a creative process going on at the same time. You start to
invent things as you're folding other peoples models.

I don't know really how many (dozens!, hundreds!!, thousands!!!) models I
know, but I find that I rarely look at books much any more. If it is a new
model, I usually look through the drawings then sit down and make it unless
it is particularly complicated, then I have to follow directions.

I suppose memory is a peculiar thing. I found the same thing when I used to
play a lot of chess. It wasn't very difficult to visualise a chess board
and pieces and play the game without seeing anything at all. - I guess it
must just be practice and familiarity with your subject.

So keep folding, keep following the diagrams. I used to fold and refold
models over and over again when I was learning something new. Especially
some of the tricky models which required precise folding otherwise the
finished model looks like something the dog has got hold of!

I would suggest to all new folders, that you fold the same model over a few
times to develop those neurons and imprint the method in the brain. I am
sure that if you do this, the same thing will happen to you, subsequent
folds will become easier and easier.

So Jim, rather than try to get off this mailing list, why not persevere for
a while longer. Get involved in what people are talking about, participate
in discussions, ask for help, sing your praises when you achieve something
and above all, HAVE FUN......

Laurie Bisman
lbisman@sirranet.co.nz





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:50:56 -0400
From: franzini@sirio.ansa.it (franzini)
Subject: Re: Kawasaki rose II

Yes, I would be interested in receiving diagrams please.





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 19:56:17 -0400
From: PenneyA@aol.com
Subject: Re: Kawasaki rose II

I would love to be able to fold Kawasaki's rose.  You ask is it ethical.  I
think I speak for many when I say the only reason we fold is because we love
it.  Not only is it ethical, it is simply rewarding and fun.  I never know
what to do with the many models I fold so most of the time I give them away
to friends and family who appreciate it.  And if you have the time, I'd
certainly appreciate the effort to diagram. it so I can enjoy the challenge.
        thanks,            Penney





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 20:08:10 -0400
From: PenneyA@aol.com
Subject: Re: African and Australian Origami

I can't help you with your question but I've just got to tell you that after
making 4 ant models from your book, the 5th one was the charm.  It came out
so well that I really consider it a work of art.  I show the folks where I
work and they are envious that I have so much patience to even attempt these
models.  But they don't understand that the patience is there only because of
the anticipation of watching each fold turn itself slowly into the model in
the photo.  I used a 10" piece of foil covered thin wrapping paper.  Can you
recommend a paper for your models that I might be able to handle in a smaller
size?  I'd love to try and make the ant smaller if I can find the right paper
for it.
The ladybug is my next challenge.           Thanks    Penney Acosta





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Fri, 5 Jan 1996 23:56:22 -0400
From: Ingi and T <ingi_t@atc.ameritel.net>
Subject: Re: how to reply

Carol Hall
>chall@scsn.net  (and yes, everyone should include their personal address
>next to their name!)

Wrote...
>3. If you want to send a personal reply to a message which appears on the
>list, you must deliberately send a message _to that person_.  You cannot
>just "Reply".
>This is what people mean when they say, "Reply privately."  Each mail system
>has a slightly different method of composing those private messages, but the
>key is not to press the "Reply" button.  You can usually check where a
>"Reply" button response will go by looking at the header above the text of
>the message for the "Reply to" line.  That will tell you where an automatic
>"Reply" will be sent.
>[By the way, a response which simply says "Me too" is of little help even if
>it only goes to one person.  Tell them "I would like <whatever>]

May I suggest clicking the reply button, copying the personal address and
pasting it over the "To" field, for those of you who have that option.

T in Maryland
ingi_t@atc.ameritel.net

"I drank what?" -- Socrates (maybe?)





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 01:00:28 -0400
From: rva036@lulu.acns.nwu.edu (Justin Vandenbroucke)
Subject: Re: List configuraton of "Reply-to" field

>Personally I vote for keeping the current configuration of the
>list.  I have enjoyed "ease dropping" on several interesting replies
>and feel that I have learned a lot.  The consistent use of subject
>lines to follow "conversations" works very well for me.  I think
>this is sufficient for the most part.  Finally, I would like to add
>that I really appreciate the informal nature of this list as opposed
>to professional lists I'm subscribed to where it is highly encouraged
>that the subscribers think thrice before posting a reply and
>the resultant conversation is probably a bit stiffled.  I do not
>think that the origami list has reached the volume of mail yet
>where this is necessary.      ... Mark
>
>P.S. My appologies for having publically posted a "me too".
>
>--
>*-------------------------------------------------------*
>|          Mark E. Casida                               |
>|          e-mail: casida@chimcn.umontreal.ca           |
>*-------------------------------------------------------*

I agree.





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 01:03:23 -0400
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re origami model

Dear Sergei,  Here is a model I thought you might enjoy knowing...I think it
originated as  a playground fold. It is a basketball hoop.  Larry Davis, USA,
modified it and made a lock on it...but I will tell you how it is made
without a lock.  It will stay by itself but better with scotch tape.   Use an
8 1/2 by 11 sheet of paper.  On short side make a waterbomb base.  You will
see two loose pointed  flaps. Tuck one pointed flap into the other.  Fold the
two sides of the house shape into the middle crease. Open these sides like a
sofa fold and your wil basketball hoop will stand.  Crumple a small piece of
paper and throw it into the hoop...this creates a sensation whenever it is
shown.  Perhaps you can share this at your convention......It is my gift to
you.  .  If you can't figure it out will send you a model by mail. Dorigami





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 01:04:56 -0400
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re: Attn: Business Card Frog Seekers!

Please send frog instructions.  Paperfolding Plus, 5 Brookwood Dr., Freehold,
N. J., 07728





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 01:06:33 -0400
From: DORIGAMI@aol.com
Subject: Re: Origami Video?

I have had a T.V. show for 10 years on a local cable station showing how to
do Origami.  I could send you a copy of a show if you think it could be
converted to your video method.  Dorigami.





Return-path: <origami-l@nstn.ca>
Date: Sat, 6 Jan 1996 06:25:21 -0400
From: Brett <BrettAndJill@OIA.Net>
Subject: Displaying objects

On occasion I will assemble a model that for some reason I find
romantic, sentimental, (or just plain proud of) and then give it to
my wife as a special little Gift.  She is rapidly running out of room
to display everything, since I started making Unit origami models.

Here's the kicker "WHERE DO YOU PUT A 2400 unit Sierpinski Sponge ?"
and how much room does it really take up ?

BrettAndJill
BrettAndJill@OIA.Net
