




Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 18:06:12 -0300
From: pdc@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Paul Close)
Subject: Re: Blackdevil Angler

> Well, after all the recent postings about Lang's Blackdevil Angler, I was
> inspired to try my hand. My original response after looking at the picture,
> was "Yeah, right. Anything with that many points would certainly give me a
> nervous breakdown." But the enthusiasm evident in the postings infected me,
> and so I began.

It's actually masochism :-)

> I started with a piece of 81/2 inch kami paper, to get the desired effect
> (white teeth!). And as I folded, I was lulled into a false sense of
> confidence. "This isn't so bad," I thought. "Maybe I'm really starting to get
> the hang of these Lang models, finally." I even made it past some of the
> steps that had been stopping other people. Then I came to step 83, and the
> train jumped the track. I studied the diagrams for awhile, then tried the
> step. "No, it's not happening." Studied some more. Some more. "OK, I can do
> this." For maybe 15 minutes I fumbled with the paper, trying to coax the
> folds into place. My hands were starting to shake, and my patience wearing
> dangerously thin. I tried one last frantic effort, and my paper EXPLODED into
> confetti, showering my office with ori-shrapnel (I'm folding on my lunch
> break, I find it relaxes me :-).

I had a similar experience.  I found if you undo some of the diagonal folds
you made just a few steps ago, it's possible to open the "mouth" enough to
get tweezers in there and help the sinks along.  Once you get all the sinks
done, the model is a lot more stable, and the mouth is wider.

However, I found to my dismay that one of the flaps/points indicated in
subsequent steps was not on the top, as shown, but on the bottom!  So I'm
not sure I'm going to be able to finish after all.  There's something else
funny about those steps that doesn't quite mesh with my model.  I think I'll
just finish up the teeth and improvise on the upside down flaps!

I've come close to converting this model to origami confetti a few times,
and not by accident either!

> Well, I'd like to hear from the rest of you; did you make it past this step?
> Any suggestions on ways to accomplish it? Should I use larger paper? Or
> different paper? And are the fold lines in the diagram correct? Should I have
> a third arm surgically attached to my body?

I'm using 8-1/2 typing paper, a photocopy reject that has a cool dark
pattern on one side.

Tweezers help immensly.  Larger paper might help.  Experience always seems

I have to warn you, in my experience on this model, each group of steps is
progressively harder than the group before.  I'm past step 83, but I think
I'm seriously hosed now....

> I'm assuming that since there
> have been no postings on this in the last couple of days, you all
> successfully completed it, right? ;-)

Yeah, right :-)

> Well, I'd better get back to work. I need to calm down after my "relaxing
> lunch".

I made the mistake of working on it at night :-|
--
Paul Close          pdc@sgi.com          http://reality.sgi.com/employees/pdc/

                     No fate but what we make





Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 18:28:05 -0300
From: Mary Jane Heussner <rgtmjh@gsusgi2.Gsu.EDU>
Subject: Re: Blackdevil Angler

To the insane:

Well, all the postings about the Angler lulled me into bringing my book to
work and what do you know--here I am trying too.  Yes, Paul, like you I
sailed through the parts that generated discussion a few days ago (I'm
using supply center grade 9 3/4" paper).  When I got to the pyramid tooth
(step 71) I had a little trouble thinning it, but I figured, who cares if
the tooth is a little fat.  I even got through step 83 without being
demoralized, but whoa, I can't sink that inside corner upward in step 85.
My angler is sea debris now, but where does that corner come from--the
very middle?  Isn't it caught up by other folds (I wish I hadn't trashed
it so quickly)?  I'm going to start over tonight and stop at this step and
wait.  I must have done something prior to this step wrong and don't
realize it.  Any ideas?

Mary Jane





Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 19:00:53 -0300
From: pdc@lunch.engr.sgi.com (Paul Close)
Subject: Re: Blackdevil Angler

> When I got to the pyramid tooth
> (step 71) I had a little trouble thinning it, but I figured, who cares if
> the tooth is a little fat.

I had that too.  I came to the same conclusion :)

> I even got through step 83 without being
> demoralized, but whoa, I can't sink that inside corner upward in step 85.
> My angler is sea debris now, but where does that corner come from--the
> very middle?

Temper, temper :-)

Hmm, it worked fine for me.  It's the inside of the very middle (the one
with the tooth).  It didn't fold up quite as illustrated, but it's in the
right neighborhood.

> Isn't it caught up by other folds (I wish I hadn't trashed
> it so quickly)?  I'm going to start over tonight and stop at this step and
> wait.  I must have done something prior to this step wrong and don't
> realize it.  Any ideas?

There are so many steps, with little things that can go wrong, that by the
time you get to 85 we could have substantially different models!  I've got
upside-down fins, and you've got a closed middle :-)

Maybe you didn't do the sinks in step 83 right?  Seems once I finished those
steps, the inside of the model was much more open than before.  Make sure
the sinks were on either side, and the middle should be open.

Paul





Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 19:17:44 -0300
From: Joseph Wu <jwu@cs.ubc.ca>
Subject: Dollar Bill proportions (was Re: Robert Lang's Ammonite)

On Fri, 14 Apr 1995, Martin Gibbs wrote:

>   First of all, it says use paper of dollar bill proportions - 1:2.360
> Surely dollar bills are of proportion sqrt3:4 which is 1:2.309 .  I wasn't
> too worried about this - it just seemed strange use three decimal places
> and get it apparently wrong.

American dollar bill proportions are 3:7. Canadian dollar bill
proportions are 11:24.

Joseph Wu      <jwu@cs.ubc.ca> | Witty quote is now back to the
Master's Student               |   drawing board due to squeamish
University of British Columbia |   readers. Any suggestions?
WWW: http://www.cs.ubc.ca/spider/jwu/origami.html (Origami Page)





Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 20:54:58 -0300
From: Martin Gibbs <mrg1001@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Dollar Bill proportions (was Re: Robert Lang's Ammonite)

On Fri, 14 Apr 1995, Joseph Wu wrote:

> American dollar bill proportions are 3:7. Canadian dollar bill
> proportions are 11:24.

  Hmmm.  That would be 2.333 for the American dollar.  We're getting
closer to the 2.360 !

  I understood that the dollar bill had proportions such that you could
draw equilateral triangles in it like this:-

        -----------------------------
        |     / \           / \     |
        |    /   \         /   \    |
        |   /     \       /     \   |
        |  /       \     /       \  |
        | /         \   /         \ |
        |/           \ /           \|
        -----------------------------

hence sqrt3:4.  I've seen models that have used this - a dollar bill snap
octahedron for instance.  I suppose this could just be an origamist saying
"Well, it's close enough".  I can't see why dollar bills would be made
that proportion and it may be some proportion that isn't easy to see;
perhaps 1:2.360 as Robert said.

  I'm in England and so I don't have a dollar bill handy to check I'm
afraid!

  Martin Gibbs.





Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 21:19:24 -0300
From: Joseph Wu <jwu@cs.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: small origami models (was Re: tissue paper and tweezers)

On Fri, 7 Apr 1995, Tim Rueger wrote:

> I use a pair of electronics tweezers for the small insects I do (like
> Montroll's aparagus beetle from Origami Sculptures).  The tips are under
> 1mm wide.
>
> How small are we talking, here?  I've successfully done the asparagus
> beetle from 3-inch foil, resulting an insect about 1 inch long.
>
> I also did Montroll's blue shark from 4 inch paper as a gift for Ann
> LaVin for giving me directions to Lasell College and Porter Square a
> while back.
>
> I heard about Robert Lang having some life-sized insects at a recent
> OUSA (then FOCA?) convention - does anyone have further details?

Yes, he did. A black spider (approx. 8 mm leg span) and a red tick
(approx. 6 mm long). Both were folded out of dyed foil. Unfortunately,
the spider went missing during the cleanup.

When I fold miniatures, I try not to use any tools other than my hands. I
have a pair of blunt tweezers in my Swiss army knife that come in handy
for really tough jobs, but I keep their use to a minimum. My smallest
models (folded by hand) are a 3/4 inch Montroll gothic table (chess
board) and a Kawasaki rose folded from a 1.25 cm square (tweezers used
for the final tuck underneath).

Joseph Wu      <jwu@cs.ubc.ca> | Witty quote is now back to the
Master's Student               |   drawing board due to squeamish
University of British Columbia |   readers. Any suggestions?
WWW: http://www.cs.ubc.ca/spider/jwu/origami.html (Origami Page)





Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 21:20:23 -0300
From: Joseph Wu <jwu@cs.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: Tricks/Tips for folding point to point.

On Fri, 7 Apr 1995, Doug Philips wrote:

> A while back I saw something on the Discovery Channel about a Japanese folder
> whose name I have forgotten.  He had come up with a way to fold maps and
> solar panels for maximal compactness and ease of opening/closing.  They

That would be Miura. Tom Hull (and others) met him in Japan at the
Origami Math & Science conference.

Joseph Wu      <jwu@cs.ubc.ca> | Witty quote is now back to the
Master's Student               |   drawing board due to squeamish
University of British Columbia |   readers. Any suggestions?
WWW: http://www.cs.ubc.ca/spider/jwu/origami.html (Origami Page)





Date: Fri, 14 Apr 1995 22:21:10 -0300
From: Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@pipeline.com>
Subject: Blackdevil Angler

It has been a few years since I have folded Lang's "Blackdevil Angler."
With all of it's recent discussion, I decided to try it out again. I will
do my best to describe the tricky steps.

In step 83, I perform this by raising the top single layer, and begin to
perform the indicated crimps (on the top layer only). This will cause the
top single layer to form a 3-D pyramid. You would then push the pyramid
into the model while swinging over the indicated layers. To complete, the
outer appendages are crimped into the resulting pockets. Incidently, in
step 85, you are asked to unsink the so called pyramid.

In step 95, first form the outer mointainfold ring. Then pinch the botom
like a rabbit ear. Then  push the fin into the model while flattening. The
top of the fin will  have excess paper that can be flattened by perfoming
step 92. I personaly would perform the  sing of step 100 while the model is
in the position of step 95.

If anyone has any otherproblems, I would be happy to help.

Happy fishing,

Marc Kirschenbaum





Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 03:25:36 -0300
From: Ginger <gab138@arts.usask.ca>
Subject: Re: small origami models (was Re: tissue paper and tweezers)

I love to fold small paper.  There this crab i like to do (i forget the
author and the book, but you need to make some cuts), i can fold it in 5
centemeter ( 1.9 inches) paper, i havnt tried any smaller yet.  I've also
tried Mark Vigo Anglada's beetle with the same paper, it is recognisable,
but it's not too good. What kind of electronics tweesers do you use? were
they expensive? were they easy to get a hold of? i'd like to try them.

Ginger





Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 09:49:45 -0300
From: marmonk@mail.eskimo.com (Mark Morden)
Subject: Cutting Techniques: advice from a pro

While the subject line sounds a bit cocky, I am an architect and spent a
number of years as a drafter way back in the olden days before CAD systems.
In other words I had to actually draw on paper and sometimes had to cut
sheets to size.  Here are some tips that I use to cut squares.

First of all, get decent tools.  The most important one is a right triangle.
 Go to an art supply store and buy a 45 degree triangle.  Get a big one so
that you can draw longer lines without moving the triangle.  A 10" one is a
good size.  You also need a ruler (a metal one with cork backing is the
best), x-acto knife (not a mat knife) that holds a number 11 blade, a
cutting mat (optional - you can put some cardboard down on which to cut).

1.  Lay your sheet of paper on the table.  This may be obvious, but do not
trust that the edges are square.  They may look square but not close enough
for origami.

2.  Lay the triangle down just inside one of the corners of the sheet.  Draw
a line along the two edges of the triangle that are at right angles to each
other.  (Don't draw all the way to the corner to connect the lines.  I have
found that the corners of the plastic triangles can be a little rounded.
Lines drawn to the edge of the triangle result in a sloppy corner.)  Now you
have two lines that don't intersect but are at right angles to each other.

3. Pick up the triangle and align one of the edges with one of the lines you
just drew. Call this Line One.  Extend Line one past Line Two in one
direction and as far as you need to in the other.  If you are cutting a very
large piece of paper, you will have to slide the triangle down Line One,
realign the triangle with the line, and continue to draw.

4.  Repeat on Line Two.  Now you should have two lines at right angles that
intersect.

5.  On both lines measure from the corner the size of the piece you want to
cut and make a mark.  (Remember what the carpenters say: "Measure twice and
cut once.")

6.  Take the triangle and set it so that the right angle corner is at the
mark you made and one leg is aligned with either Line One or Line Two.  This
the critical part. You are going to draw the third side of the square.  To
be accurate the triangle must align with Line One or Line Two.  If you are
off here, the square won't be square.  Draw Line Three.  Repeat on the other
side and draw Line Four.

7.  Now you should have a square.  There are a few ways to check.  Measure
Lines Three and Four to see if the are the same as Lines One and Two.  Any
mis-match means an angle is off somewhere.  Also when you finish drawing
Lines Three and Four, use the triangle to check that the angle between them
is 90 degrees.  You can also measure the diagonals of the square to see if
they are equal.

8.  If every thing is ok, then you are ready to cut.  Unless you have super
steady hands, don't use scissors.  You'll end up with a wavy line.  Lay the
metal ruler along the line and use the x-acto knife to cut the paper.  Much
quicker and more accurate.  The cork backing on the ruler helps keep it from
slipping as you run the knife along the edge.  A plastic ruler will work as
long as you don't angle the blade of the knife into the plastic edge.

That's all there is to it.  I hope this is clear and not too pendantic.  I
think it is worth the trouble to develop some accuracy in cutting paper.
Prepackaged paper is okay for trial models, but "keepers" look much more
impressive done out of a patterned or art paper.  It's like a song:
sometimes the arrangement can make all the difference between and hit and
the bargin bin.

Mark Morden
marmonk@eskimo.com





Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 11:13:19 -0300
From: "Dorinha M.S.S. Vitti" <dmssvitt@carpa.ciagri.usp.br>
Subject: TYRANNOSAURUS REX

I AM FOLDING (TRYING?) THE SKELETON OF TYRANNOSAURUS REX FROM ISSEI
YOSHINO, AND I AM IN TROUBLE WITH THE TAIL BONES. I FOLDED TILL STEP 11,
PAGE 57 BUT I CAN'T GO ON. COULD SOMEONE GIVE ME A  SUGGESTION?
HELP ME PLEASE.....DORINHA VITTI.





Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 11:58:27 -0300
From: Angel Rodriguez Negron <arodrign@ns.inter.edu>
Subject: Harlequin

Does anybody know how to make an harlequin model?
How about some angels models?





Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 12:49:41 -0300
From: Stamm@aol.com
Subject: Re: Angels (Was Re: Harlequin)

I've designed a couple of angle models.





Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 16:53:15 -0300
From: GD_ROPPENHEI@fair1.fairfield.edu
Subject: OUSA Conference Registration

Has anyone received anything in the mail about the year long awaited event that
happens in New York City at the end of June ?
I am waiting with baited breath.





Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 18:41:59 -0300
From: hull@hypatia.math.uri.edu
Subject: Re: OUSA Conference Registration

The registration forms for the NYC Origami USA 95 Convention will
be in the mail by May 1st.  It also looks as if we might have
an electronic version of these forms available (but which you'll
still have to snail-mail in).  Stay tuned...

----------------- Tom "starin' at the paper too long..." Hull





Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 19:27:38 -0300
From: Kevin Thorne <C598033@MIZZOU1.missouri.edu>
Subject: Re: TYRANNOSAURUS REX

     Here goes on a little help.  After the diamonds folded in step 9 you
pleat the model in step 10.  What may have happeded is that you folded
alternating mountain and valley folds.  If you look close, the instructions
show two mountain folds then two valley folds except on the ends.  This
creates 3 wide riges for the vertabrae.  Notice that each ridge is two
little squares wide with the right half of a diamond showing.  With this
done you can just pull the first and second ridge apart spreading the
paper flat again and perform step 12.  This is basically a sink which
angles the front part of each vertabrae and while forming the sink you
refold the pleat.  Hope this helps.  Write again if you need to.
Good luck.

Kevin Thorne
c598033@mizzou1.missouri.edu
Columbia, Mo





Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 20:10:32 -0300
From: INTERACT! User <aimeem@ohana.com>
Subject: intro, comments & questions

Hi everybody! I'm new to e-mail so please forgive me if I make any really
gross social blunders...

Basic bio info:  I'm 4th generation Japanese-American (my
great-grandparents came from Japan) living in Hawaii; not related to
anyone named Miura except my parents & my brother.

I've probably been doing origami for 20 years or so (I'm 28).  Nothing
fancy, just for fun.  Mom & I once led an origami session at my cousin's
elementary school, which involved cutting BIG squares of paper for
wearable hats and such.

1000 cranes:
A popular thing to do here with the 1000 cranes is to mount them in a
design (family crest, teddy bear, etc) and frame it.  There is at least
one framing company that does it, but my parents and I just finished an
amateur effort (and we won't do it again) for a family friend (we also
folded over half the cranes) involving a heart shape around a picture of
the couple & more cranes around the edge.  Professional versions usually
involve folding some of the finished cranes slightly to get the desired
texture/shape.  [All of this will probably have the purists up in arms,
since the cranes have to be GLUED to the board :) ]

Selling origami:
Lots of people here sell origami jewelry (pins, earrings) at craft fairs,
but I don't know what kind of lacquer/coating they use.  These are mostly
"traditional" models (cranes, frogs, butterflies, fans), and I've never
seen any that gave credit to the developer of the fold.

Help! PS files..
I've managed to print out the PS files with GhostScript (legal-sized
paper and the -sPAPERSIZE=legal command for the A4 sized sheets, which
worked fine).  My only problem is with the "poly.ps" file, which keeps
giving me an error after page 4.  I use a pc-clone with MS-DOS 6.0 and an
HPLaserJet3 - any ideas?

Help!  Frog?
Someone once gave me a jumping frog made out of a piece of rectangular
paper (started with folder paper 8.5" x 11", but may have been cut
smaller; I just remember the lined paper...), which I unfolded and
figured out.. and have since lost and never found again.  I don't suppose
this sounds familiar to anyone?

Japanese names:
Most Japanese first names ending in "-ko" (a suffix meaning child) are
female (Tomoko Fuse); also names ending in "-e" or "-ye" (Toshie
Takahama), BUT "-hiko" is usually a male name (Kunihiko Kasahara).  "-o"
(Isao Honda) and "-aki" (Toyoaki Kawai) are common endings for male
names.  I have more info on this if anyone is REALLY interested...

Aimee Aiko Miura
aimeem@ohana.com





Date: Sat, 15 Apr 1995 21:11:49 -0300
From: Martin Gibbs <mrg1001@hermes.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: intro, comments & questions

On Sat, 15 Apr 1995, INTERACT! User wrote:

> Japanese names:
> Most Japanese first names ending in "-ko" (a suffix meaning child) are
> female (Tomoko Fuse); also names ending in "-e" or "-ye" (Toshie
> Takahama), BUT "-hiko" is usually a male name (Kunihiko Kasahara).  "-o"
> (Isao Honda) and "-aki" (Toyoaki Kawai) are common endings for male
> names.  I have more info on this if anyone is REALLY interested...
>
> Aimee Aiko Miura
> aimeem@ohana.com

I'm quite interested. I knew Tomoko Fuse was female but I didn't know
Toshie Takahama was





Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 00:15:42 -0300
From: Folderbuck@aol.com
Subject: Re: Robot Folding

Interesting discussion about mechanical folding devices...
About six or seven years ago The National Air and Space Museum in Washington,
D.C. had, as part of an exhibit on computer technology applied to aircraft, a
machine that folded paper airplanes then tossed them out into the air to land
nearby. I visited the exhibit numerous times and never saw the machine
working although other visitors have sworn that it did work. I'm sure NASM wou
ld have some info on the machine... its probably in their basement somewhere.
Or perhaps Anne McCombs, the Capital Folders resident aircraft specialist and
NASM guru knows about the machine. Any comments Anne???





Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 15:48:18 -0300
From: Cynthia Pettit <pettit@cs.unc.edu>
Subject: "Vote for 5"???

Apologies in advance for those not in OUSA...

I just recieved a ballot today for OUSA [I haven't looked very
carefully at it yet] that had five candidates on it and a form at the
bottom saying "vote for five..."

It is me or is something wrong here?  Should I mark one or mark all
five boxes??

Cyn "would I jump off a bridge if somone mis-printed instructions to???" Pettit
--
        "It's not about driving down rt 66 and stopping at the Holiday Inn!
               It's about *adventure*!!"
                          ---Richard P Feynman





Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 16:03:10 -0300
From: RMXC26A@prodigy.com (MR KEITH W SAYLES)
Subject: Beginner

-- [ From: keith Sayles * EMC.Ver #2.10P ] --

How do you get srart? Is  there a bookstore that  has  a  catalog that
you can       get by mail.

thankyou.

     keith s.





Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 16:46:35 -0300
From: Douglas Zander <dzander@solaria.sol.net>
Subject: Re: "Vote for 5"???

>
> Apologies in advance for those not in OUSA...
>
> I just recieved a ballot today for OUSA [I haven't looked very
> carefully at it yet] that had five candidates on it and a form at the
> bottom saying "vote for five..."
>
> It is me or is something wrong here?  Should I mark one or mark all
> five boxes??
>
> Cyn "would I jump off a bridge if somone mis-printed instructions to???"
     Pettit
> --
>       "It's not about driving down rt 66 and stopping at the Holiday Inn!
>            It's about *adventure*!!"
>                   ---Richard P Feynman
>

    No, nothing is wrong.  Mark all five boxes.  Because OUSA is a
    non-profit organization they must follow certain rules to qualify as a
    non-profit organization; one of these rules is that they must have
    elections and allow the members to vote in these elections.  Even though
    all five canditates would be elected in all five vacant positions and it
    would seem silly to go through the process of voting, it must be voted
    upon anyways just to follow the rules of non-profit organizations.  OUSA
    must give its members the chance to actually vote for these board
    members instead of just putting them in place without an election.  I
    know it sounds silly but...





Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 17:25:59 -0300
From: b_hall@ix.netcom.com (Bill Hall)
Subject: Re: Dollar Bill proportions (was Re: Robert Lang's Ammonite)

> American dollar bill proportions are 3:7. Canadian dollar bill
> proportions are 11:24.

I just measured a dollar bill. To the nearest 16th, it's 2 11/16 by 6
3/16 inches. I also measured it with a metric scale, and it's 6.6 by
15.7 cm. If you divide out my measurements in inches, that's a ratio of
2.30. In cm, it's 2.36. 3:7 would be exactly 2 1/3 or 2.33.

The difference between a ratio of 2.30 and 2.36 would amount to about 1
mm in the length of the dollar bill. I guess this is about as accurate
a measurement as you could expect with just an ordinary ruler. The
ruler I used has marks for 1/8 inches on one scale and for 1 mm on
another scale.

Bill Hall





Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 21:51:20 -0300
From: Phil DeGreen <philbo@sccs.swarthmore.edu>
Subject: Rock Climber!?

Hello all!  Well here goes my first posting!

In the last newsletter thingee Jeremy Shafer had many origami jokes
pasted to the end of his posting, one of which made reference to Robert
Lang's Rock Climber...  Is there such a thing?!  Or has the joke gone
completely over my head.  I'm an avid climber and would love to fold this
model.  Any ideas?  Thanks!

Phil DeGreen
philbo@sccs.swarthmore.edu





Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:38:41 -0300
From: "BOB T. LYNCH" <blynch@du.edu>
Subject: DEVIL FISH

AAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!  Alright!  Who got everyone going on this Black
Devil Fish!!!??? (I know that's not the real name - it's just what I am calling
it at the moment!!)

I hit steps in the forties... thinking myself pretty cool - this isn't so bad
and then I hit the wall at the step that says "Sink the inner corner"  WHAT
inner corner!!??? There's about a bazillion corners inside that puppy!! So, I
look at the diagrams, line it all up, and it appears to me to be the very middle
am I right? Could it be? AAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!  Wouldn't sink - not
a bit... turned it over, that side was worse, and didn't match up with the
diagrams... turned it over, tried again.... AAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!! As someone
politely put it Devil confetti all over the floor.... Actually, I just wound
up punturing a REALLY BIG HOLE into it, which makes it unworkable. Back to
the paper cutter! (I am using bigger paper this time - like 24" Fadeless Art
Paper.... Finally found someone that carries it that doesn't charge an arm and
a leg per foot!)

I plan on printing and reading all the helpful hints posted the last couple
of days, see if I can get over the wall.. probably just in time to run into
it full bore in another couple of steps... AAAAAHHHHHHH!!!!!!

I did have some fun with the boxes in Tomoko Fuse's _Decorative Boxes_ (see
prior posting). HOW CLEVER they are! I can't wait to really be able to make
boxes - I just worked in the car on a road trip to Wyoming (a DFF for Easter
[DFF translates to "Dreaded Family Function"]), and just did an example of all
the different modules (or as many as I could before getting carsick - but
you probably don't want to hear about THAT!)

Bye and I'll see how many of us survive the Devil Fish over the next couple of
days.... AAAAAAAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

Dee





Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 00:47:27 -0300
From: Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@pipeline.com>
Subject: Rock Climber!?

Hi Phil,

Robert Lang did create a Rock Climber; it was published in the 1993 Annual
Collection. This book is available through OrigamiUSA. You might be
interested to know that Robert does a bit of climbing himself; I have
always assumed that the model was meant to be some sort of self portrait.

Marc Kirschenbaum





Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 10:05:11 -0300
From: Stamm@aol.com
Subject: Re: DEVIL FISH

I don't know were the diagrams for the devil fish are.  I've been following
the conversation on it though and the thought occurred to me that y'all
started working on this around April 1.

Just a thought,
tom





Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:02:45 -0300
From: Rjlang@aol.com
Subject: Re: Unfair! and Ammonite

> > Hi, all! I'm back after a week in sunny England ("sunny" in the sense of
> > "cold, overcast and drizzling") and the BOS spring convention
> Unfair!  We had some nice sunny weather for the convention weekend.  >
Okay, so it wasn't exactly California but it wasn't overcast and it
> didn't rain!

Yes, Martin, the convention weather was admittedly quite nice. I was thinking
of earlier in the week. The previous Sunday I had spent hiking in the Lake
District in a dense fog, about 40 degree weather with a twenty-mile-an-hour
wind and when I got back to my hotel to thaw out a local said (apparently in
all seriousness) "you're lucky you got some nice weather!"

Concerning the Ammonite...

> First of all, it says use paper of dollar bill proportions - 1:2.360
> Surely dollar bills are of proportion sqrt3:4 which is 1:2.309 .  I wasn't
> too worried about this - it just seemed strange use three decimal places
> and get it apparently wrong.

It's not wrong. Those are the actual proportions of the dollar that I used (I
measured). Of course, dollars do vary in actual size, so you actually can't
go wrong with either 3:7 or sqrt[3]:4 or 1:1+sqrt[2] (I've seen models based
on all of these). Obviously, one doesn't need 3 decimal places of accuracy,
but back in the days when I was using odd-size rectangles I gave all
dimensions to 3 decimal places for those who liked definiteness.

> I'm not sure how much trapped paper to pull out and I can't see a way to
> tuck one side in.  I've tried just putting one layer over the other but it
> doesn't seem to hold together too well.  Any suggestions?

No, putting one layer over the other is what you're supposed to do, and it
_doesn't_ hold together very well. Hey, I was young when I made it up, what
can I say? Someday I'll diagram the version of the Chambered Nautilus Shell
that has the animal inside which I promise holds together extremely well!

Robert





Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 12:08:06 -0300
From: Jeannine Mosely <j9@concentra.com>
Subject: Re: Cutting paper and the grain

I recently encountered a problem folding that I must have experienced
before, but never understood.  I was working with origami paper, and
it was square enough for my purposes, but the squares had been cut so
that the grain of the paper was almost, but not quite parallel to one
edge of the square.  Since I was trying to make a pleat fold, this was
quite annoying.  My creases kept coming out slightly slanted.  So if
you're going to take the trouble to cut your own paper, it's probably
worth making a long crease with the grain first, and then lining up
your tools against that crease.

        -- jeannine





Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 13:05:42 -0300
From: Marc_Hache@MBnet.MB.CA (Marc Hache)
Subject: RE: Cutting techniques

Pardon if I've missed this response or am stating the obvious but I came
across this technique in a book (Kenneway ?) a while back and have used it
ever since. It seems quite accurate. This is kind of hard to explain without
diagrams but here goes:

If you know that one edge of the paper is straight, great. If not, fold over
an edge to create a straight line and remove the excess. Then fold one side
of the paper, folding the straight line onto itself, creating a 90 degree
angle. Remove the excess.
Do the same with the other side. Finally fold up the bottom, again folding
the now straight sides onto themselves.

Sorry if that's not explained very well. It's all based on the principle
that if you fold a straight edge onto itself, the line that is created will
be at 90 degrees to the original.

Sigh. Maybe I'll go find the book and get you the name and page number.
Marc Hache
Account Executive
Pioneer-Standard Canada inc.
(204) 989-1955





Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 22:39:07 -0300
From: Eric Tend <eric@hpisdaja.ptp.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Dollar Bill proportions (was Re: Robert Lang's Ammonite)

A while back, Joseph Wu wrote:

> American dollar bill proportions are 3:7. Canadian dollar bill
> proportions are 11:24.

I had a dinner outting last month where I met a fellow from Hong Kong
who had some wonderfully colored, almost perfect 2:1 bill proportions
.. one of which creasified into a Yoshizawa(sp?) bat.

--Eric--

==============================================================================
     ____/__/__/__/__/__/__/ | "Its all in the reflexes"
      __/         __/        |                       -- Jack Burton
_______/__/      __/         |================================================
    __/         __/          | Eric Tend
 ____/__/__/   __/           | eric@hpisdaja.ptp.hp.com





Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 11:49:12 -0300
From: Lee Kinkade <kinkale@quincy.edu>
Subject: A rose

Where can i fing the diagrams and instructions for the Kawasaki rose or
other flowers?

Lee

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
kinkale@shamino.quincy.edu        | "vi,vi,vi editor of the beast."---A.E.M
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question." ---D.L.K.





Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:11:10 -0300
From: DEWEY.D.M%wec@dialcom.Tymnet.COM
Subject:

        Just a very quick thanks to the denizens of Origami-l for helping
     me to quickly obtain the instructions for the creche scene from
     _Secrets of Origami_.

                                        Dave Dewey

     _____________________________________________________________________

     The ideas contained herein do not represent those of my employer.





Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:08:29 -0300
From: Martin Gibbs <mrg1001@hermes.cam.ac.UK>
Subject: Re: A rose

On Tue, 18 Apr 1995, Lee Kinkade wrote:

> Where can i fing the diagrams and instructions for the Kawasaki rose or
> other flowers?

  There's a Kawasaki rose in the "Origami for the Conoisseur" book by
Kasahara and Takahama.  Kawasaki has actually designed many origami roses
for the different stages of growth - from just having flowered through to
the flower in full bloom.  My favourite is one that if you make it from
paper that is red on one side and green on the other then it has a red
rose with green leaves around the bottom.  This isn't diagrammed yet as
far as I know but has only been taught to me by someone who was taught it
by Kawasaki.

  Martin Gibbs.





Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 13:22:36 -0300
From: Doug Philips <dwp+@transarc.com>
Subject: South FLA Paper and Book stores/sources?

Hi all,
        Does anyone know of good paper or book sources in Southern Florida?
I'm going to be staying in Pompano beach for a few weeks (10 miles north of
Ft. Lauderdale).

I ping'ed the Palm Beach/Broward county contact (from the OUSA
newsletter) about their next meeting.  Forgot to ask about stores/paper, but I
can do that again when I get down there.  Just hoping that someone on the net
might have some pointers.

        Thanks,
               -Doug





Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 14:59:03 -0300
From: Sheldon Ackerman <ackerman@dorsai.dorsai.org>
Subject: Lionfish

I have given up on that devil of a fish and began an attempt on the next
model in the book--the Lionfish. For some reason, which for the life of me I
can't figure out now, steps 56-58 took me longer to complete than steps 1 -
56! Anyway I just completed what is shown in step 59.
Question: Is that "Repeat behind." correct? "Repeat what" behind? The only
difference I see in diagram 60 is the completion of the upward folding of
the layers shown in diagram 59.

Awaiting your answers so that I can continue with what I am sure will still
become torturous :-)
--
Sheldon Ackerman
ackerman@dorsai.dorsai.org
sheldon.ackerman@nycps.nycenet.edu





Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:35:12 -0300
From: Sheldon Ackerman <ackerman@dorsai.dorsai.org>
Subject: Re: Lionfish

Next  question ( I'm too impatient to wait :-)
Back to that Lionfish...Shouldn't there be a "Repeat behind" for steps 61 and
62 as well?
--
Sheldon Ackerman
ackerman@dorsai.dorsai.org
sheldon.ackerman@nycps.nycenet.edu





Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 15:43:51 -0300
From: Todd A Neufeld <tanst6+@pitt.edu>
Subject: important books

Hi All,

I am new to this list and have a quick question that I am sure someone
can answer.  Is there a list of origami books that are considered "must
have's?"  Is there a group of a dozen or so "classic" books (even if some
are newer) that all folders should own?

Also, what are good mail-order places for paper?

Happy folding,

        -Todd
         tanst6+@pitt.edu





Date: Tue, 18 Apr 1995 17:07:45 -0300
From: Lee Kinkade <kinkale@quincy.edu>
Subject: Re: A rose

April 18, 1995 Martin Gibbs wrote:
>
>   There's a Kawasaki rose in the "Origami for the Conoisseur" book by
> Kasahara and Takahama.  Kawasaki has actually designed many origami roses
> for the different stages of growth - from just having flowered through to
> the flower in full bloom.  My favourite is one that if you make it from
> paper that is red on one side and green on the other then it has a red
> rose with green leaves around the bottom.  This isn't diagrammed yet as
> far as I know but has only been taught to me by someone who was taught it
> by Kawasaki.
>
>   Martin Gibbs.
>
I'd love to learn that rose.

Lee

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
kinkale@shamino.quincy.edu
"If you don't want to know the answer, don't ask the question." ---D.L.K.





Date: Wed, 19 Apr 1995 09:19:54 -0300
From: "Dorinha M.S.S. Vitti" <dmssvitt@carpa.ciagri.usp.br>
Subject: Re: TYRANNOSAURUS REX

THANK YOU FOR THE SUGGESTION!IT WORKS ANd  FINALLY I GOT THE FOLD. I HOPE
I CAN GO ON. did uyo fold the complete tyrannosaurus?
thank you.dorinha

On Sat, 15 Apr 1995, Kevin Thorne wrote:

>      Here goes on a little help.  After the diamonds folded in step 9 you
> pleat the model in step 10.  What may have happeded is that you folded
> alternating mountain and valley folds.  If you look close, the instructions
> show two mountain folds then two valley folds except on the ends.  This
> creates 3 wide riges for the vertabrae.  Notice that each ridge is two
> little squares wide with the right half of a diamond showing.  With this
> done you can just pull the first and second ridge apart spreading the
> paper flat again and perform step 12.  This is basically a sink which
> angles the front part of each vertabrae and while forming the sink you
> refold the pleat.  Hope this helps.  Write again if you need to.
> Good luck.
>
> Kevin Thorne
> c598033@mizzou1.missouri.edu
> Columbia, Mo





Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 01:02:11 -0300
From: Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@pipeline.com>
Subject: New diagrams at archives

Hello everyone,

I just wanted to let you all know that Maarten put two of my postcript
diagrams in the origami archives. The files are PFISH.PS and INFLAT.PS,
which correspond to my Pureland Fish and Inflation models respectively.

The fish model has made its rounds in various origami periodicals, and I
thought that it would be nice to have it available though a new medium.
Unlike most of my models, I rate this one to be simple (honest).

Inflation is a cute model of a shrunken US dollar. While the model might be
small, the file itself is huge at 1605994 characters (not that I counted
them all). This is beacause these diagrams made extensive use of scanned
(bitmapped) images. Even though I scanned at 75 dpi, the corresponding TIFF
files are quite large.I took the images to Freehand, and added the standard
origami symbols and text. I hope that you like the results.

I will probably send some of my more challenging models in the near future.

Enjoy,

Marc Kirschenbaum





Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 16:33:22 -0300
From: casida@ERE.UMontreal.CA (Casida Mark)
Subject: Re: origami: help trailer

Hi again,

Before things get out of control, I'd just like to say that I
really like this list and sure appreciate the work of those
responsible for starting and maintaining it.

I too appreciate the point about saving the welcome message that
I get when I first subscribe.  The problem is that I (and almost
everyone I know) eventually winds up forgetting where the welcome
list was stored (hmmm... did I save it to a file or did I print it
and throw it in a drawer?)  Moreover, since I also do a bit of
administrative work for a time shared system, I know how frustrating it
can be when someone leaves and list mail just keeps on coming to
their account.  Then the person who has to desubscribe the user isn't
even the same person who subscribed in the first place.

The idea of putting list information in a trailer may sound like
a hassle, but really the point is to minimize hassles for everyone.

Now, having spent all this list time on this matter, I'd also like
to appologize.  You see, we could have been discussing origami
instead and (well) I feel guilty.  My only excuse is that the
solution to the frequent requests for "how to unsubscribe" or
"how to access archives" seemed so simple.

How about an origami question for a change?  I visited the office
of Origami USA during a brief visit to NYC.  It seems that the people
who drop in often like to leave things they've folded.  Some are
on display and some are in a free to take box.  I noticed that someone
had folded a very nice jellyfish (imagine that!) and left it in the
box.  Unfortunately I didn't take it.  Does anyone know of plans for
any origami jellyfish?

                                ... Mark

> > It would be very useful, and I think not too hard, for the
> > listserver to automatically append a trailer to each message.
>
> Most mailing lists send you a welcome message with a FAQ when you
> first subscribe.  When one subscribes to origami-l, the short
> acknowledgement tells you to send an e-mail to the listserver
> with "help" as the body of message.  The listserver replies with
> a list of commands and what each one does.
>
> I make it a point to save all these welcome/FAQ to a folder called
> "lists" every time I sign up for a mailing list.  The problem is
> that many people just delete these, and annoy everyone on the list
> with "how do I unsubscribe" messages.  It's not that hard to save
> the FAQs to a folder.

--
*-------------------------------------------------------*
|          Mark E. Casida                               |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
|          B-605 Pavillon principal                     |
|          Departement de chimie          \_____/       |
|          Universite de Montreal         /\0|0/\       |
|          Case postale 6128              | | | |       |
|          Succursale centre-ville        \/   \/       |
|          Montreal, Quebec H3C 3J7    -----"-"----     |
|          Canada                                       |
|-------------------------------------------------------|
|          tel: (514) 343-6111 poste/extension 3901     |
|          e-mail: casida@chimcn.umontreal.ca           |
|          fax: (514) 343-2468                          |





Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:24:12 -0300
From: Nani1949@aol.com
Subject: Re: National Math Conference and Origami equal FUN

Hi everyone: I am new to this llist and recently attended a math conference
in Boston. I was so inspired by a workshop, Math in Motion: Origami in the
Classroom by Barbara Pearl. Her approach made learning origami so easy and
fun for educators and families. Did anyone else attend? Does anyone know how
I can contact her or where I can get a copy of her book? It was so croweded,
I didn't even get her handouts,Thank you.
Nani





Date: Fri, 21 Apr 1995 20:45:12 -0300
From: Michael Thwaites <mjt@stubbs.ucop.edu> (Michael Thwaites)
Subject: Re: National Math Conference and Origami equal FUN

You might consider asking this question on the
geometry-pre-college@forum.swarthmore.edu list some of the math people
there may be able to help you too.

>Hi everyone: I am new to this llist and recently attended a math conference
>in Boston. I was so inspired by a workshop, Math in Motion: Origami in the
>Classroom by Barbara Pearl. Her approach made learning origami so easy and
>fun for educators and families. Did anyone else attend? Does anyone know how
>I can contact her or where I can get a copy of her book? It was so croweded,
>I didn't even get her handouts,Thank you.
>Nani





Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 09:03:03 -0300
From: Nani1949@aol.com
Subject: Re: National Math Conference and Origami equal FUN

Dear Janet:
The conference was attended by over 20,000 people at last count. Most of the
workshops were held in the Hynes Convention Center and adjoining Marriott and
Sheraton hotels.  There were hundreds of exhibitors and one exhibitor,
Scholastic had an origami display and demo tofold  paper cups, fill it with
plastic cubes and then explore volume. This activity was also very popular.
 Barbara also presented at the National Council of Supervisors of Mathematics
(NCSM) but I was standing outside and people were sitting on the floor. It
was a smaller room and could not fit as many people. I really enjoyed her
methodology where she carefully explains how to incorporate the National
Standards and Strands to teach (K-6). I was impressed that there are so many
applications! I am always looking for hands-on activities and manipulatives.
Do you know where I can get a copy of her book? Thanks.
Nani





Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 09:10:34 -0300
From: cardiff!vann@uunet.uu.net (V'Ann Cornelius)
Subject: Re: National Math Conference and Origami equal FUN

Barbara is a member of the Origami-l group. Her e-mail address is
BPearl@eworld.com

I've seen her on the west coast. I also enjoyed her presentations.
Happy Folding,
V'Ann
vann@cardiff.com





Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 12:06:04 -0300
From: Bateman "A." "G." <agb@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: New diagrams at archives

    >I just wanted to let you all know that Maarten put two of my postcript
    >diagrams in the origami archives. The files are PFISH.PS and INFLAT.PS,
    >which correspond to my Pureland Fish and Inflation models respectively.

I have just tried to print these files. The printer just printed a
page with the following message on

    Offending Command = setpagedevice
    Error = nametype:undefined
                this name is not defined in a dictionary
    Stack=
            --nostringval--
            --nostringval--

Has any one had more success? Can I edit the PS file?

Alex Bateman





Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:22:57 -0300
From: "Penelope R. Chua" <chupenr@minerva.cis.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: New diagrams at archives

On Sat, 22 Apr 1995, Bateman A. G. wrote:

>     >I just wanted to let you all know that Maarten put two of my postcript
>     >diagrams in the origami archives. The files are PFISH.PS and INFLAT.PS,
>     >which correspond to my Pureland Fish and Inflation models respectively.
>
> I have just tried to print these files. The printer just printed a

[stuff deleted]

> Has any one had more success? Can I edit the PS file?

I printed out the INFLAT.PS diagram yesterday.  It worked fine.

On a side issue, I just completed Thoki Yen's DNA molecule out of a piece
of paper cut so that the length to width ratio was 3 times of that
recommended.  This resulted in a DNA molecule three times longer than the
one in the original diagrams.  Alex asked a long time ago if anyone could
spot Thoki's error.  Well, I have stared at my long DNA model, and I am
by no means a biophysicist, but the only thing I could spot by mere
inspection was a lack of major and minor grooves in the origami version.
If you view a real DNA molecule from one end such that the two
sugar-phosphate backbones are running away from you, the backbones are
not 180 degrees apart.  Consequently, the molecule has a smaller (minor)
groove on one side of a basepair and a larger (major) groove on the other
side.  The origami DNA molecule has no such asymmetry.

I guess since we are being picky today, the other thing wrong with the
model (though more forgiveable than the geometric error) is that Thoki's
DNA has 16 basepairs (if we count the space between two valley folds as a
basepair) for roughly two helical turns, whereas real DNA has about 10
basepairs per turn, so there really should have been 20 valley folds in
step one of the diagrams.

I still think it's a great model, though - and the 3X DNA I made is truly
spectacular.  I hope I didn't spoil it for everyone else...

So did I spot the right error, Alex?

--
Penelope Chua                 chupenr@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Department of Biology         (203) 432-5052
Yale University
219 Prospect Street
Box 6666
New Haven, CT 06511





Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:36:51 -0300
From: "Penelope R. Chua" <chupenr@minerva.cis.yale.edu>
Subject: DNA

Oops, I meant that there should have been 19 valley folds in step one to
divide up the paper into 20 divisions, instead of 15 valley folds for 16
divisions.

--
Penelope Chua                 chupenr@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Department of Biology         (203) 432-5052
Yale University
219 Prospect Street
Box 6666
New Haven, CT 06511





Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 13:56:41 -0300
From: Marc Kirschenbaum <marckrsh@pipeline.com>
Subject: Re: New diagrams at archives

On Sat, 22 Apr 1995 Bateman "A." "G." <agb@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk> said:

>    >I just wanted to let you all know that Maarten put two of my
postcript
>    >diagrams in the origami archives. The files are PFISH.PS and
INFLAT.PS,
>    >which correspond to my Pureland Fish and Inflation models
respectively.
>
>I have just tried to print these files. The printer just printed a page
with
>the following message on
>
>    Offending Command = setpagedevice
>    Error = nametype:undefined
>                this name is not defined in a dictionary
>    Stack=
>            --nostringval--
>            --nostringval--

I'm sorry about any trouble these files may have caused you. I am aware of
that Maarten deleted the first line before submitting the files to the
archives. You can try inserting the following line with any text based
editor:

%-12345X@PJL ENTER LANGUAGE = PostScript

I hope that this helps.

Marc Kirschenbaum





Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:04:46 -0300
From: Bateman "A." "G." <agb@mrc-lmb.cam.ac.uk>
Subject: Thokki's DNA

Dear Penelope,

   the only thing I could spot by mere
   >inspection was a lack of major and minor grooves in the origami version.
   >If you view a real DNA molecule from one end such that the two
   >sugar-phosphate backbones are running away from you, the backbones are
   >not 180 degrees apart.  Consequently, the molecule has a smaller (minor)
   >groove on one side of a basepair and a larger (major) groove on the other
   >side.  The origami DNA molecule has no such asymmetry.
   >
  Actually Thokki's DNA does have a major and minor groove. His error is
in the handedness of the helix. Real DNA has a right handed helix, so if
you view a model of DNA the backbone traces out a clockwise path. If you
look at Thokki's DNA (origami DNA!) the backbone coils in an anticlockwise
manner.

   >I still think it's a great model, though - and the 3X DNA I made is truly
   >spectacular.  I hope I didn't spoil it for everyone else...
   >
  How about a realistic 200000000X DNA molecule. To make the starting
rectangle cut an A4 sheet in half longways. Then take one of these rectangles
and cut in half longways, repeat this process about 25 times more

Alex Bateman





Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 14:12:49 -0300
From: ACPQUINN@middlebury.edu
Subject: Re: origami: help trailer

Mark asked for instructions for an origami jellyfish...
The jellyfish you found was probably mine... I have diagrammed it as well...
If you are going to be at the Convention I will have copies with me...
Speaking of which, are we going to be wearing anything that will identify
us as net-folders?  Last year we wrote OLO (for online origami) on our name
tags... a good idea, I think...

-Alasdair-
acpquinn@middlebury.edu





Date: Sat, 22 Apr 1995 23:58:26 -0300
From: Gretchen Klotz <gren@lclark.edu>
Subject: Geometry Forum (was Re: National Math Conference ...)

On Fri, 21 Apr 1995, Michael Thwaites wrote:

> You might consider asking this question on the
> geometry-pre-college@forum.swarthmore.edu list some of the math people
> there may be able to help you too.

Thanks for publicizing The Geometry Forum.  I've been waiting for a good
segue, not wanting to be accused of nepotism since it's my dad's project!
;-)

They have *lots* of neat stuff on the Forum (and yes, I know my dad looks
a lot like Darth Vader).  Even before I became addicted to paperfolding,
my dad and all the staff at Swarthmore were very origami-friendly, with
lots of neat geometric models all over the main project room (probably has
something to do with my predilection for unit origami).  For general
information, send email to annie@forum.swarthmore.edu.  If you want to
speak to someone on the phone, call (800) 756-7823.

And while I'm on the commercial channel here, I'd better pass on the
contact info for Key Curriculum Press, a wonderful geometry-oriented
catalog.  They have Fuse's _Unit Origami_ book, as well as *huge* packs of
origami paper and patty paper ("translucent squares of paper used by
restaurants to separate hamburger patties," of all things!).  And lots of
other great stuff for the math/geometry/origami junkie in *your* life...
To order a catalog, write or call Key Curriculum at:

        PO Box 2304
        Berkeley, CA  94702-9983
        (800) 995-MATH

And now, back to your regularly scheduled somewhat still commercial-free
Internet...

- Gretchen Klotz

P.S. to Melissa D: I have an old catalog of theirs for you.  Look forward
to folding together next week!





Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 00:02:47 -0300
From: "Penelope R. Chua" <chupenr@minerva.cis.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Thokki's DNA

On Sat, 22 Apr 1995, Bateman A. G. wrote:

>   Actually Thokki's DNA does have a major and minor groove. His error is
> in the handedness of the helix. Real DNA has a right handed helix, so if
> you view a model of DNA the backbone traces out a clockwise path. If you
> look at Thokki's DNA (origami DNA!) the backbone coils in an anticlockwise
> manner.

You are right, of course, regarding the handedness.  I took my textbook from
lab home to where my origami DNA was, and compared it to the real thing
and saw that it did have the opposite handedness.
However, Thoki's DNA has grooves that are the same width on opposite
sides of the basepairs, leading to a symmetric double helix.  This is not
the case in nature, where the grooves are of different widths due to the
backbones being attached to the bases slightly off center.
As far as I can tell, the only way to make an origami DNA with
distinguishable major and minor grooves is to bend the model along the
length all down its center.  Conceivably, this could be accomplished with
more precreasing so that during the formation of the helix,
tucks/pleats are made so as to bring the edges (the backbones) together
assymetrically.  Thus, if you took a cross-section of the completed helix,
the backbones would be roughly at 4 and 8 o'clock positions rather than at
3 and 9 o'clock positions.

>   How about a realistic 200000000X DNA molecule. To make the starting
> rectangle cut an A4 sheet in half longways. Then take one of these rectangles
> and cut in half longways, repeat this process about 25 times more

How about a more manageable(?!) 10X molecule... Circular plasmids exist
that are as small as 2,000 basepairs or so - assuming that each turn of
Thoki's DNA represents 10 basepairs, one needs to make an origami
DNA of only (!) 200 turns and then join up the free ends to get an
origami version of a DNA molecule that exists in nature.  I guess if you
made about 2 of Thoki's DNA (at about 2 turns per model) per day and kept
making them at that rate for 50 days you'd end up with enough modular
pieces of DNA that you could join end-to-end for a molecule of a
realistic size...

--
Penelope Chua                 chupenr@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Department of Biology         (203) 432-5052
Yale University
219 Prospect Street
Box 6666
New Haven, CT 06511





Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 13:22:13 -0300
From: "Penelope R. Chua" <chupenr@minerva.cis.yale.edu>
Subject: Re: Thokki's DNA

Actually, I went back and stared some more at my origami DNA, and this
time could make out major and minor grooves.  For some reason, the model
forms two grooves, one slightly deeper than the other - though not for
the same reason that real DNA makes grooves of different widths. (Can
anyone tell me why the origami model ends up miraculously with major and
minor grooves?)
It occured to me that Thoki's DNA resembles A-form DNA more closely than
B-form DNA (which to my eye has major and minor grooves that are more
distinguishable).  Real DNA exists in the B-form in nature, which is the
type I am most accustomed to seeing.  Duplex RNA, now, is always A-form -
which means that Thoki's DNA model actually makes a quite
authentic double-stranded RNA!

--
Penelope Chua                 chupenr@minerva.cis.yale.edu
Department of Biology         (203) 432-5052
Yale University
219 Prospect Street
Box 6666
New Haven, CT 06511
