




Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 12:49:37 AST
From: Bruce Stephens <bruce@liverpool.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Message from a novice

> I folded models quite a bit a couple of years ago, going through all
> of the books I found in the library I normally frequent. However, the
> books are few and they all contain the same rather elementary models.
> I got quite bored. Now, if my funds allow me, I would like to buy a
> book of origami, and I thought that my fellow netters could probably
> offer me recommendations. My problem is that I probably have to order the
> book without seeing it, because the bookstores here don't have a lot
> of origami either.

There are lots that you might want.  A couple of classics that you may
not have come across are "Origami for the Connoisseur" by Kasahara, and
"Origami Omnibus" by Kunihiko.  Kasahara's contains Kawasaki's Rose, which
is a must model!

Bruce                   Institute of Advanced Scientific Computation
bruce@liverpool.ac.uk   University of Liverpool





Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 13:01:20 AST
From: ab682@leo.nmc.edu (Nancy Nietupski)
Subject: Re: Message from a novice

On Wed. Timo wrote:

>I got quite bored. Now, if my funds allow me, I would like to buy a
>book of origami, and I thought that my fellow netters could probably
>offer me recommendations. My problem is that I probably have to order the
>book without seeing it, because the bookstores here don't have a lot
>of origami either.
>
>        Thanks,
>        Timo
>
        I'm going to be ordering some books from the _Friends of Origami
Center of America_ so I have the order list in front of me now - wishing
I had about $200 to spend on books.  But these are the books I would
advise anyone to get for their library.

1. _Origami Omnibus_ by Kasahara: Encyclopedic collection of 200+
models and theory; include puzzles and challenges. 384 pp. Paperback.
Intermediate to Comples.   $18.95

2. _Complete Origami_ by Kenneway: Fascinating A to Z collection of
origami folklore, history, and instructions for over 100 projects.
192 pp. Paperback. Simple to Intermediate.  $12.95

3. _Origami Museum I_ by Yoshizawa: English version of Hakabutsu-sui I;
elegantly presented book of 35 livily animals, mixed with Yoshizawa's
articulate expression of his origami philosophy.  78 pp. paperback.
Intermediate to Complex. $14.95

        There are some more great books out their too numerous to
list here.  But I think that the books above will give you a good
start.  Different people prefer different types of origami.  It
all depends on which type gets you excited.

        I would suggest going to your local library as well.  That
will allow you to look at a book before you order it.  (Hopefully,
the book is still in print - many aren't).

Good Luck,
NN

Nancy Nietupski
ab682@leo.nmc.edu





Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 13:12:51 AST
From: Marc Kossa <M.Kossa@frec.bull.fr>
Subject: Re: Message from a novice

> There are lots that you might want.  A couple of classics that you may
> not have come across are "Origami for the Connoisseur" by Kasahara, and
> "Origami Omnibus" by Kunihiko.  Kasahara's contains Kawasaki's Rose, which
> is a must model!

Hi people around the world !
I keep hearing about Kawasaki's Rose, but can't find it
in the books we have here in France... :-(
I was wondering if someone has directions for it ?
Possibly willing to fax them to me ?
What would be fantastic !

Thanks,

Marc

      /| /|             |  /
     / |/ |  _  ._   _  |_/  _ < <   _
    /     |_(_(_/ |_(_  | \_(_)_>_>_(_(_    (M.Kossa@frec.bull.fr)

Bull SA, BP 208, 1 rue de Provence, 38432 Echirolles CEDEX, France





Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 13:25:02 AST
From: ab682@leo.nmc.edu (Nancy Nietupski)
Subject: Advice on 4 books

Hello,

        As soon as my tax return comes in I'm going to be spending
it on some new origami books.  So, I have my list from the FOCA
in front of me and I need some advice on which books to order.  If
anyone one owns any of these books out there, can you please tell
me what you think of them.

1.  _Dokuhon II (Creative Origami)_ by Yoshizawa.  In Japanese. 39
challenging and inventive models of a variety of birds, animals,
plants, faces, objects, etc; also includes a section of beautiful
color photographs of some of Yoshizawa's exhibitions and displays.
Hardcover. Intermediate.  $24.95

2. _Creative Life with Origami Book III_ by Takahama.  In Japanese
with English titles.  A gorgeous book with beautiful color photos
illustrating most of the 100+ folds; sections on Japanese zodiac,
dolls, action toys, flowers and modulars.  185 pp. Paperback
Simple to Complex.  $27.95

3. _Viva Origami_ by Kasahara and Maekawa.  In Japanese.  40 unusual
and challenging models, including the demon, seated deer, and a fabulous
peacock; great models for wet folding; very rewarding for the
experienced folder who reads diagrams well.  167 pp. $29.95

4. _Papiroflexia_ by Clemente.  In Spanish. 59 original animal models
from a simple mouse and a wonderful rabbit, to a complex bird in
a bird cage; excellent diagrams.  238pp. paperback Simple to Complex
$20.95

        This is the only time of year when I can afford to spend
this much money on several books and not feel guilty.  So, what
is the opinions out there on these wonderful sounding books?

Thanks,
NN

Nancy Nietupski
ab682@leo.nmc.edu





Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 13:37:06 AST
From: lavin@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Message from a novice

Making a book recommendation is not easy -- especially since so many
good books are out there.  Do you have particular interests?  For
instance, do you prefer to fold animals, or modular pieces (boxes,
kusudama, etc.) or abstract shapes, or all of the above?  What skill
level do you feel you fold at, at present?  Do you like challenging
models that take several tries to get right, or simpler ones?  (Sounds
like you got tired of the simpler ones...)

I agree with Bruce's suggestions ("Origami for the Connoisseur" and
"Origami Omnibus") as good general books, though.  They both have a
good mix of subjects and skill levels (though I'd say that the first
tends more towards complex folds, which the second has some easier
models as well as some complex ones.)

And Nancy's suggestions (will ya'll stop sending mail until I can get
this draft out?  Geez. :)  are great ideas as well...In particular, I
recommend anything by Yoshizawa that you can get your hands on.  His
models are not, generally, complex, but really make you think about
the creature you're trying to represent.  The models frequently take
several tries to get right, as they are always very sensitive to the
angles you choose, and rarely have distinct landmarks.  But they're
incredibly rewarding!

As one of my hobbies is collecting origami books (well, and I fold
from 'em, too!) I have quite a large library at this point.  So I'm
happy to talk about specifics books; or if you have specific
interests, I can try and recommend a particular one...

Anne R. LaVin                    | "Say, Pooh, why aren't YOU busy?" I said.
lavin@mit.edu                    | "Because it's a nice day," said Pooh.
MIT Information Systems          | "Yes, but---"
(617) 253-0115                   | "Why ruin it?" he said.





Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 13:58:41 AST
From: base00!jhc@codas.attmail.com
Subject: Book recommendations

Timo asks about good origami books in his message.  There are a host of good
books out there, and it partly depends which "branch" of origami you like.
I'm doing this list from memory, but these are books that seem to keep coming
up in conversation as "Excellent" in their genre.  (I forget the authors...)

General purpose books:
        Yokohama(?) - Origami for the Connosieur
        ???         - Origami Omnibus
        Peter Engel - Folding the Universe

Boxes and Geometrics:
        Tomoko Fuse - Boxes
        Tomoko Fuse - Spirals
        ???         - Kusudama: Ball Origami

Animals:
        John Montroll - African Animals
        John Montroll - Sea Life
        John Montroll - Animal Origami for the Enthusiast

By all means, everyone feel free to comment on/add to this list.  It is by no
means complete, nor do I even own all these books.  I know there's also a
good book by Harbin, but I don't remember the name....

Anyway, hope this helps, Timo!!

-- Javier

 + jhc@codas.attmail.com            +  AT&T                               +
 + Javier Cubero                    +  Orlando, Florida                   +





Date: Wed, 19 Jan 94 17:10:59 AST
From: GURKEWITZ@WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU
Subject: need help in obtaining books from overseas

It just occurred to me that someone might be of help in obtaining copies
of a couple of books that are not available in the US.

The last BOS newsletter reviewed two new books by Paul Mulatinho as
excellent. I called my bookstore and they said they couldn't get them.

I suppose the Friend may eventually sell them. In the meantime, I assume
that the publishers are German, and if anyone can  help me get them, I'd
appreciate it. What I remember of the reviews is that the books contained
outstanding designs from many international folders and that the folds
were not complex.

Another book I read a review of a long time ago is something like
Christmas Origami by Steve Biddle. I liked Essential Origami and
would like to obtain this book too. Barnes and Noble said it wasn't
available in the US. and I don't believe the Friends sell it.

It was published in England. So if someone could help out here I'd
appreciate it.

If you let me know what kind of currency you need, I can probably
get it in NYcity.

Regards,
Rona
gurkewitz@wcsub.ctstateu.edu





Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 10:00:36 AST
From: ab682@leo.nmc.edu (Nancy Nietupski)
Subject: Re: need help in obtaining books from overseas

Hi Rona,

>. I liked Essential Origami and
>would like to obtain this book too. Barnes and Noble said it wasn't
>available in the US. and I don't believe the Friends sell it.
>
        I got Essential Origami by Biddle for Christmas and it
was purchased here in Grand Rapids, so you can buy it in the US.
The ISBN is 0-312-05716-4 and it is published by St. Martin's Press.

>It was published in England. So if someone could help out here I'd
>appreciate it.
>
>If you let me know what kind of currency you need, I can probably
>get it in NYcity.
>
>Regards,
>Rona
>gurkewitz@wcsub.ctstateu.edu
>
>
        Good  luck! It is a fun book to fold from.

NN

Nancy Nietupski
ab682@leo.nmc.edu





Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 12:07:36 AST
From: GURKEWITZ@WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU
Subject: re: overseas books wanted

I'd just like to clarify my previous posting.

The books I'm looking for are Christmas Origami by Biddle and the two
new books by Mulatinho.
I've been told that all three are not available in the US.

I have Essential Origami by Biddle, and like it enough to buy another
of Biddle's books.

While I'm thinking about this, there's another book I would like to get
from Japan. It's a Math and Origami book in Japanese by Professor
Husimi.

Any help appreciated.
Rona
gurkewitz@wcsub.ctstateu.edu





Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 12:47:05 AST
From: Sjaak <jadr@oce.nl>
Subject: Re: Creating diagrams

Nancy Nietupski writes:
  >
  >
  >     I am a new beginner at creating models and was wondering
  >if anyone knows of a book that talks about drawing out diagrams
  >by hand.  I don't have a harddrive or lazer printer or the bravery
  >to try diagraming with a computer program.  In fact, I would rate

I do not know of a book, but maybe you can use these tips;

- cut holes of the most important shapes into pieces of cardboard to make
some templates: some squares, kite, triangle, etc. Make sure the sizes match.
This will speed up at least the first steps.

- if you have to make a long series of drawings it pays off to make some
special templates for the occasion. You do not need to cut out holes of
intricate shapes, just glue together a few layers of thick paper, each with
holes of a useful shape (say, a 30 degree angle)

- maybe you can skip the first steps altogether if the intended audience
knows how to get to, say, a bird base.

  >I've thought about photographing each step.  Has anyone tried
  >this?
  >     I'm at the end of my ruler and graph paper!

I have not photographed myself, but I have a book which consists entirely of
photographs. I will look up the title at home and post it next time.

Greetings,

Sjaak





Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 13:44:07 AST
From: "B.Ewins" <gapv64@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Message from a novice

While we're all on the subject of books, has anyone
seen one on the subject of _creating_ origami ? I mean,
instead of 'how to make a daschund' you get 'how to turn
a base with four points into one with 8 in these positions'
... etc, completely about bases and how to fold what you
are thinking of.
        I dont mean a book 'of bases', I mean a book of
methods for _changing_ bases.

        Anyone ?
               Baz





Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 14:20:25 AST
From: "A.G.BATEMAN" <N09UW%TARN@newcastle.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Message from a novice

> While we're all on the subject of books, has anyone
> seen one on the subject of _creating_ origami ? I mean,
> instead of 'how to make a daschund' you get 'how to turn
> a base with four points into one with 8 in these positions'
> ... etc, completely about bases and how to fold what you
> are thinking of.
>       I dont mean a book 'of bases', I mean a book of
> methods for _changing_ bases.
>
>       Anyone ?
>            Baz
>
>Wouldn't that be a great book. However the next best thing is
available. These are the books by John Montroll. If you have these
books and have folded some of the subjects with many points, then
try this. Unfolding the model entirely. This gives you the crease
pattern of the model. Many of the creases aren't important for folding
the base , but come from "detail" folds. Just folding the base and then
unfolding it will show which are the important creases.
  What are you looking for?
Well certain groups of triangles and squares. For a better account of
this see New Scientist Christmas 1989 issue, in this there is an
article by Robert Lang which explains more and has some examples
the grouped triangles known as tiles. As you unfold more and more
models you get more experienced at knowing what sort of base a
crease pattern will give once folded. Creating new crease patterns is
the fun bit and there are many ways to create new ones. Blinzing is
one way, rotating an initial crease pattern by forty five degrees, and
tracing it onto a new larger or smaller square. The main thing is just
to rearrange the basic tiles, then see if you can collapse the base,
which is actually the most difficult bit.
                    Well that's a start, keep (or start unfolding)   Alex





Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 14:34:36 AST
From: Jeremy.Uejio@Eng.Sun.COM (Jeremy Y Uejio)
Subject: Stores in Boston

Hey anyone freezing in Boston,

I'm going to be in Boston next week for the X Window Conference at the
Boston Marriott Copley Place and was wondering if there is any great
Origami stores I could visit.  (Not that we have any shortage of good
stores in SF...)

I'm actually leaving tomorrow, friday 1/21, so please reply by 6 pm PST
or don't bother...

                          thanks,
                          jeremy.uejio@eng.sun.com





Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 14:49:08 AST
From: GURKEWITZ@WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU
Subject: Re: Message from a novice

Re: Creating origami

Several years ago Robert Lang gave a talk at the FOCA convention on
how he creates models. I only heard part of it, but what I remember
is a sketch of a drawing of a square with parts of circles laid out
on it. The centers of some of the circles were the corners of the
squares. There may have been some half circles drawn on the sides
of the square with center in the middle of the side and a radius
so that the circle would not overlap the circles drawn at the
corners of the square.

Not too helpful a description I guess.

Vague memories about a writeup in an old FOCA newsletter about a meeting
to discuss creativity between Robert Lang, Stephen Weiss, Peter Engel
and Alice Gray.  Maybe someone can dig up a copy of the writeup.

Roan
I mean Rona
gurkewitz@wcsub.ctstateu.edu





Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 15:03:10 AST
From: Bruce Stephens <bruce@liverpool.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Message from a novice

Baz writes:
> While we're all on the subject of books, has anyone
> seen one on the subject of _creating_ origami ? I mean,
> instead of 'how to make a daschund' you get 'how to turn
> a base with four points into one with 8 in these positions'
> ... etc, completely about bases and how to fold what you
> are thinking of.

Peter Engel's "Folding the Universe" may be what you're looking for.

Bruce                   Institute of Advanced Scientific Computation
bruce@liverpool.ac.uk   University of Liverpool





Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 15:12:29 AST
From: Paco Ojeda_Gonzalez <ffoogg@macmailgw.dfci.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: Stores in Boston

Mail*Link(r) SMTP               RE>Stores in Boston
> Hey anyone freezing in Boston,
>
> I'm going to be in Boston next week for the X Window Conference at the
> Boston Marriott Copley Place and was wondering if there is any great
> Origami stores I could visit.  (Not that we have any shortage of good
> stores in SF...)
>
> I'm actually leaving tomorrow, friday 1/21, so please reply by 6 pm PST
> or don't bother...
>
>                   thanks,
>                   jeremy.uejio@eng.sun.com

Jeremy, there's a neat store called "The Origami Store" in Faenuill Hall. The
owner has perfected a method of covering his folds with a clear epoxy finish
and sells them as pendants, earrings, etc. If I recall correctly, he also has a
limited selection of paper and books.

Good luck!

Paco

ffoogg@macmailgw.dfci.harvard.edu





Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 15:24:40 AST
From: lavin@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: Stores in Boston

(Perhaps I should send this directly, rather than to the list, but,
hey, in case any of you Boston-area folks don't know about some of
these, here they are.)

Off the top of my head, my favorites are:

 - the Origami Store (or some very similar variation on that name) in
Faneuil Hall (that's in Dowtown Boston, easily accessible by the T)
which sells a variety of paper, books, origami jewelry and other neat
stuff.

 - Wordsworth bookstore in Harvard Square (Cambridge, a T stop on the
Red Line) usually has a reasonable selection of origami books (but
this varies drastically from month to month, for some reason.)

 - Sasuga in Porter Square (also in Cambridge, and also a Red line T
stop) is a Japanese bookstore, and usually carries a small selection
of origami books in Japanese.  They also are very willing to order
books, and take suggestions for things to carry.

 - The Paper Source (also right near Porter Square) sells all sorts of
nice paper, in the form of large loose sheets.

 - Rugg Road paper (hmmm, hard to tell you how to get there, but it's
in Cambridge) is a very, very cool place, run by artists who make much
of the paper they sell there.  Great stuff for bookbinding, etc, and
of course nice papers for wetfolding.

 - Tokai (also in Porter Sq.) is a Japanese antique/stuff store that
happens to sell a nice selection of interesting origami paper, and
some books.  If you were at Sasuga or Paper Source, you should stop
there as well.

Of course, if you're from SF, then you have Kinokuniya, and therefore
you probably don't need any of the above...But if any of these sound
interesting and you need more pointers, feel free to get in touch with
me.

Anne R. LaVin                    | "Say, Pooh, why aren't YOU busy?" I said.
lavin@mit.edu                    | "Because it's a nice day," said Pooh.
MIT Information Systems          | "Yes, but---"
(617) 253-0115                   | "Why ruin it?" he said.





Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 15:43:57 AST
From: Joseph Wu <jwu@cs.ubc.ca>
Subject: Books on Creating (was Re: Message from a novice)

Bazza, there are more sources for this than you might think:

The book that got me started on creating was Kasahara's _Creative_Origami_
(ISBN 0-87040-411-3). He's got a chapter at the end of the book devoted to
the process of creating ("The Thrill of Creating").

Other books by Kasahara also give insights/techniques useful in creating
new models: _Origami_Omnibus_ has an Introduction entitled "The Future of
a New Origami" and a chapter called "Origami to Make You Think"; _Origami_
_for_the_Connoisseur_ includes many discussion on the geometry of origami
and how it may be applied to changing models; _Viva!_Origami_ and
_Origami:_ _El_Mundo_Nuevo_ (although both are in Japanese) both give
insights to geometry and to new techniques in folding.

Peter Engel's _Folding_the_Universe_ devotes the first half of its length
to the history of origami and to the methodology and philosophy used to go
beyond the historical limits. This book is a must read. However, if you
find it a bit overwhelming (not a math/science person, or whatever), there
is a scaled down version that can be found in Discover (June 1988)
entitled "Origami: The Mathematician's Art" (pp. 55-61).

If you can get to the Friends' convention, I understand that Robert Lang
gave a talk on creation last year, so I imagine that either he or someone
else will do the same this year. (What a terrible sentence!) I have some
scribbled notes from his last talk as well as a draft version of his
report on his trip to Japan where he also talks about his methodology of
creation. (The final version of this report appears in issue #43 of the
Friends' newsletter.)

Finally, start off by modifying existing models. As you go through the
process of changing a model into something else, you begin to gain an
understanding of how that base works and how to make it do what you want.
The traditional bases are by no means exhausted! Creating new bases is
exciting and avant garde, but it is not strictly necessary. My two latest
creations are good examples of this:

93/12/31 "When Pigs Grow Wings and Fly"
         A flying pig created from a bird base. Underlying structure very
         similar to Robert Neale's dragon.

94/01/13 "Eagle"
         Frog base. Actually, this one should be of interest to you, Bazza.
         I created this after trying your eagle. I assume that I got it
         right, but I can't be sure since your diagrams were *extremely*
         difficult to follow. I think there were some errors in your shading
         as well. Anyway, I felt somewhat frustrated since I wasn't sure of
         what I was doing, so I came up with an eagle myself. Totally
         different from yours, but the idea started there. Basically, I
         used the long thick point as the body/top of the head, a long thin
         point for the lower beak, another long thin point for the tail, the
         two remaining long thin points for the wings, and two of the short
         points for the legs. Diagrams to follow.

I hope this all helps!





Date: Thu, 20 Jan 94 18:48:11 AST
From: Brian Ewins <gapv64@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Books on Creating (was Re: Message from a novice)

Hi Joe,
        I have Origami for the connoisseur, it's interesting,
but the design advice seems geared towards geometric models,
(which occupy the first half of the book anyway). The iso-area
folding though is well cool.  I'll have to get Engel's book
sooner or later (Folding the Universe) I've heard so much
said in its favour.
        As for my own eagle, I really mus apologise for those
diagrams, the program I used to make them is crap. The worst
thing, I guess, is that you cant tell the valley and mountain
folds apart. I hoped that anyone making it would have read
the instructions I mailed for it (while I had the 'flu)...
I guess it would be most interesting for novices anyway.
I've re labelled all the diagrams, making the fold directions
clearer, and I'll re-post it to Maarten sometime soon.
        It's nice to know that someone tried it !!

On another thread... A while ago there was discussion on rose
bases/stems (I've got yours) before I learned how to do the
rose. Someone else offered a PS diagram of a stem  which
attatched itself to the rose, and I seem to remember you
saying you had a copy. Any chance of getting one ?

        Regards,
               Baz.
gapv64@udcf.gla.ac.uk
or
brian@halloween.elec.gla.ac.uk





Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 01:12:11 AST
From: dzander@dazzle.sol.net (Douglas Zander)
Subject: Re: selling origami Was: Stores in Boston

In <9401201904.AA07162@farber.harvard.edu>, you write:
>Jeremy, there's a neat store called "The Origami Store" in Faenuill Hall. The
>owner has perfected a method of covering his folds with a clear epoxy finish
>and sells them as pendants, earrings, etc. If I recall correctly, he also has a
>limited selection of paper and books.
>
> Good luck!
>
> Paco
>
> ffoogg@macmailgw.dfci.harvard.edu
>
>

  Hi all,
    I was wondering how people feel about selling origami. Paco comments
 about a store owner selling origami pendants and earrings.  Does anyone
 else sell origami?  Does this conflict with the patent rights of the
 designers?  This feels like deja vu; did we have this discussion before??
 Does The Friends sell origami models or jewerly? I've never sold origami
 myself, just given *alot* away. (doesn't everyone? :-)

 Doug

 Douglas Zander
 dzander@dazzle.sol.net
 dzander@solaria.milw.wi.us





Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 01:53:18 AST
From: Brian Ewins <gapv64@udcf.gla.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: selling origami Was: Stores in Boston

Working v late tonight, part of thesis due in morning...

I don't know about selling origami. Some of my friends think I should,
espescially all the hearts-and-flowers stuff for valentine's day, which
you could flog in the street. (I'm unemployed at the moment and every little
helps...) But I wouldn't feel comfortable selling stuff I didn't design
myself , it seems like they had the idea and you're just ripping them off.
Arent most designs copyright too ?

        Sheesh, I'm just too moral and naive for this wicked world ...

               Baz.





Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 03:02:07 AST
From: "T.K. Lam" <mud05@cc.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: selling origami Was: Stores in Boston

> ----
>   Hi all,
>     I was wondering how people feel about selling origami. Paco comments
>  about a store owner selling origami pendants and earrings.  Does anyone
>  else sell origami?  Does this conflict with the patent rights of the
>  designers?  This feels like deja vu; did we have this discussion before??
>  Does The Friends sell origami models or jewerly? I've never sold origami
>  myself, just given *alot* away. (doesn't everyone? :-)
>
>  Doug
>
> --
>  Douglas Zander
>  dzander@dazzle.sol.net
>  dzander@solaria.milw.wi.us

      Greetings,

      I think you'll find that traditional models(eg. crane, waterbomb, etc.)
are considered to be copyright free.(look in most books).  Most creators are
willing to permit usage if *asked*.  If it's your own design, go ahead.

      I recall an incident in British Origami about 8-10 years ago where a
South African author had published an aeroplane book with uncredited models.
The BOS successfully won compensation from the publishers.  Even today many
new books contain blatantly derivative works, often from Yoshizawa.  It

seems the publishing industry only produce original origami books when those
truly commited to paper folding are involved.

   BTW, does anyone actually make a full-time living from it?  Apart from
authors such Paul Jackson most serious folders have full-time day jobs too.

     Regards,

        Tung Ken Lam
        mud05@cc.keele.ac.ukn





Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 10:28:01 AST
From: Paco Ojeda_Gonzalez <ffoogg@macmailgw.dfci.harvard.edu>
Subject: Re: selling origami Was- St

Mail*Link(r) SMTP               RE>>selling origami Was: Sto
>   Hi all,
>     I was wondering how people feel about selling origami. Paco comments
>  about a store owner selling origami pendants and earrings.  Does anyone
>  else sell origami?  Does this conflict with the patent rights of the
>  designers?  This feels like deja vu; did we have this discussion
> before??
>  Does The Friends sell origami models or jewerly? I've never sold
> origami
>  myself, just given *alot* away. (doesn't everyone? :-)
>
>  Doug

You know, Doug, I'd have to agree with you about your remark regarding selling
origami. Traditionally (as far as I know) it has been given as presents.

Mind you, I'd give an arm and a leg to find out the technique that this guy
(the store owner) uses to cover his folds with epoxy. Every year around
Christmas time, I struggle to find ways to make the ornaments I fold for my
Christmas tree more permanent. If I knew how to do it with this epoxy mixture,
not only would I have way cool ornaments on my tree, I could also give them
away as presents and they would be stiffer and stronger.

Somehow, I've always been reluctant to stop by the store and talk to the guy,
thinking that he will not want to share with me how he covers his models with
epoxy. But for all I know, he might be totally friendly.

Who knows...

Paco Ojeda





Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 14:25:46 AST
From: Wes Chalfant <wes@kofax.com>
Subject: Re: selling origami Was: Stores in Boston

        This isn't entirely to the point of the original message, but
there are some origami *related* products that you can buy.

        The Museum of Fine Arts, Boston has a series of items designed
using themes from a tapestry in their collection.  The tapestry is a
Japanese print with many (perhaps a 1000 in the original) cranes.  For
Christmas, I received a tie with a part of that pattern on it, and a
tie tack that is a small 3-D crane.  They had other items as well.  I
guess the crane isn't copyrighted :-).

Wes Chalfant    Kofax Image Products, Inc.    wes@kofax.com





Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 04:30:21 AST
From: tjj@rolf.helsinki.fi (Timo Jokitalo)
Subject: Thanks for the book recommendations!

Sorry I took so long in responding... I was in Estonia for a few days.
(I did buy a couple of sheets of Russian paper - it's not of good quality,
but has nostalgic patterns!)

Many thanks to all who gave me recommendations for books. I think that
I'll try either the "Origami for the Connoisseur" ot the "Origami Omnibus".
I'll try my luck in the libraries soon.

        Timo





Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 15:57:26 AST
From: hull@cs.uri.edu (Tom Hull)
Subject: creative books and origami for profit

HellOOO!

RE: Good books to help thee create
     One book that I've totally gotten a lot out of in the creative
department is  Viva! Origami  by Kasahara and Maekawa (although the book
contains mostly Maekawa's folds). I LOVE this book! Maekawa's classic,
extremely complex, extremely ELEGANT winged demon is in this book, and
that alone is worth the cover price.
     I also like this book because in addition to diagrams for the models
they include a picture of the crease-pattern! This provides a convenient
reference for studying relationships between the crease-pattern and the
final folded figure. Even though the book is in Japanese, one can still
learn a lot by perusing these crease-patterns. Tom says check it out.

RE: Selling origami
     At a FOCA convention (in 88, I think) I sat in on a lecture about
origami and copyright laws. There was a real live lawyer there and everything!
According to him, only physical things can be copyrighted. To copyright an
*idea* you need to apply for a pattent (sp?), which can be a pain in the butt.
     Thus, origami diagrams are the only things that are copyrighted. This
means that photocopying published diagrams is a no-no, but folding models
from them is cool. Further, the folds *themselves* are not copyrighted (only
the diagrams are). So what you make with your own hands is perfectly within
your right to sell. Thus selling origami models is leagal, and many people
do. The guy who runs The Origami Store in Boston didn't invent everything
he sells, no way! If you visit the store you'll find Montrolls and Langs
galore! Also, at every convention there are always a dozen people or so
selling origami jewlery (usually earrings), and most of these folds are
borrowed from various books.
     I know, the moral thing is kinda weird. I used to sell original
origami wet-folded masks on consignment, but after a while it started to
feel like slave labor.

RE: People making a living with origami.
     NOT MANY. Even the Friends are all volunteer (although they're now
trying to hire a full-time organizational secretary). Montroll gave up
his government research job to do origami full time, and I believe
he actually makes good money from his books now that they're self-
published. But I also heard that he's recently taken a job teaching at
an elementary school. Maybe he's doing this just for fun.
     I, myself, have a *first book* coming out soon (yeayyy!). It was
co-authored with Robert Neale (he invented the models, I wrote the book
and drew/designed the diagrams). It's being published by St. Martin's Press,
and has been mildly lucrative. So far I've made approx. $4000 on it, and
I've been working on this since '91! But it's due to hit the stands this
April, and then we'll see if royalties can chip in some more. The title,
by the way, is  Origami, Plain and Simple  (yes, a simple-intermediate
level book).

     You know, I love to write!
------------------------------------- Tom "mushnik" Hull





Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 17:37:27 AST
From: Joseph Wu <jwu@cs.ubc.ca>
Subject: Re: selling origami Was: Stores in Boston

On Fri, 21 Jan 1994, T.K. Lam wrote:

>    BTW, does anyone actually make a full-time living from it?  Apart from
> authors such Paul Jackson most serious folders have full-time day jobs too.

As Tom Hull said, Montroll now does. Others of note are some of the
Japanese folders such as Yoshizawa and Kasahara, Michael Shall (former
president of the Friends), and Toshi Aoyagi (creative director of the
Toronto-based origami club whose name escapes me at the momemt). Paul
Jackson is actually involved in many different types of paper art, as are
Steve and Megumi Biddle. Oh, yes, I forgot to mention the Momotani family
of Japan. I'm sure there are other Japanese who fold full-time as well.
Saburo Kase is a blind masseur who spends much of his time on folding, and
Kazuo Choshi was a former mine worker who spends much time folding since a
mining accident left him injured. Other who *might* be full-time folders
are Toshie Takahama and Yasuhiro Sano (Head Director of NOA). And of
course there is Makoto Yamaguchi (author of _Kusadama:_Ball_Origami_) who
runs the Gallery Origami House in Tokyo.

So, not too many in the west, and a few more in Japan. I'd like to one day
become a full-time paperfolder, but it's difficult to get started,
especially since paperfolding is not very highly regarded in Vancouver.
However, I am working on public awareness and hopefully will be able to
start making a real impact in the next few years.





Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 18:02:02 AST
From: GURKEWITZ@WCSUB.CTSTATEU.EDU
Subject: making a living at origami

It seems like the most lucrative connection with origami is in teaching.
Rachel Katz has done workshops for schools almost full time for 20 years.
V'Ann Cornelius has a bunch of workshops going.

I spoke to someone who does parties for children full time and he
use origami as well as magic and juggling.

I have made some money at origami. In service teacher workshops go for
around $100 an hour of contact time. (This sound like a lot, but doesn't
factor in the cost of books, conventions and paper)

Mostly, I'm happy if I make enough at origami so I can write off all my
expenses.

I've given lots of free workshops at conferences too, and suppose this
translates into money indirectly because it counts towards promotion
on my job. (I focus on math teachers and math and origami.)

Rona





Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 18:17:25 AST
From: "A.G.BATEMAN" <N09UW%TARN@newcastle.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: Full time folders

 On the subject of full time folders, Rick Beech here in England
manages to eke out a living as a full time folder. Rick teaches in
schools, does TV appearances and any other origami activity that
brings in money.
                                            Alex.





Date: Fri, 21 Jan 94 20:12:04 AST
From: CHAPBELL@delphi.com
Subject: A Tangent to the Book Discussion

Dear All and Sundry,
    Although this is only tangentially connected to the discussion of books
and origami, I am going to mention it anyhow, as I know many folders have
somewhat related interests (magic, puzzles, mathematics, cooking....)
    On page 20 of _Magic Eye: A New Way of Looking at the World_ (by N.E.
Thing Enterprises.  Kansas City: Andrews and McMeel, 1993) one may note a
picture of strings of origami cranes.  Pretty in itself, this illustration,
like all of those in the book, is a single image stereogram, which means if
you look at it funny (as though you were looking at a stereopticon photograph
without a viewer), a 3D image will swim up from the surface of the picture.
In this case, the hidden 3D image seems to be origami stars suspended in
space. This is, of course, a great deal of fun.  I recommend it highly.
    (If I may borrow a tedious advertising trope) Someday, single image
stereograms will be able to carry 3D images of folding diagrams for those
models which have depth as well as width and height.  Someday, maybe even
animated 3D images of the folding process.  Someday, but first I guess I'll
have to learn C.
    Cheerio,
        <>Philip Craig Chapman-Bell<>
            chapbell@delphi.com





Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 04:35:43 AST
From: r.follmer@genie.geis.com
Subject: Re: selling origami Was: Store

If you ever get to Toronto, Ontario, Canada, thereis a store in queens Quay
in the harborfront area that sells all kind of origami models.  Their prices
are reasonable and the varitey is excellent.  the name is the Japanese Paper
Place.

I, too, am interested in this phase of origami.. If anypone has any insight
intp this, I ill be happy to listen.  I also am planning on NYC in June for
the conference.

Have a fun day.

Bob





Date: Sat, 22 Jan 94 16:22:48 AST
From: roos@sophia.smith.edu (Bob Roos)
Subject: Re: Replies to Virtual Origami & math stuff

Tom,

Long time no see! (Well, August DOES seem like it was ages ago.)

Are you still willing to mail out copies of that paper on Virtual Origami
by the four Japanese authors?  Can you tell me how much postage I should
put on the envelope? (And will business size be big enough, or
should I send you a 9x12 manila envelope?  And I'd be happy to reimburse
for copying expenses, too, if you're still willing to do it.)

Haven't heard from Bob Neale (except for a Christmas card) for a long time.
How's the book going?  When can I expect to see it in the stores?

I appreciate your updates in "ORIGAMI-L" on articles in science journals
about origami.  Keep 'em coming!

Bob





Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 04:44:09 AST
From: Sjaak <jadr@oce.nl>
Subject: Re: Replies to Virtual Origami & math stuff

On the subject of sending things through snail mail:

I read some messages with instructions to obtain paper copies of some
things (virtual origami, dividing an angle in three, etc.). Most of them
involve a 'sase', which turned out to mean 'self addressed stamped
envelope'. (It took me some time to find this out!)

But what should you do if you live in f.i. the Netherlands (as I do) and
the sender(s) of the messages are Americans, Swedes, Englishmen, etc?

Has anyone solved this little problem? Things I can think of:
- get yourself a batch of assorted foreign stamps somewhere
- do not send stamps but send money (which?) or a cheque
- promise to send some interesting things in return (I like this one best)

I do not consider this a trust problem. A 'sase' makes sense inside any
country, but it is a bit awkward when you cross borders.

Greetings,

Sjaak





Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 05:40:47 AST
From: "M.J.van.Gelder" <M.J.van.Gelder@rc.rug.nl>
Subject: Origami stuff via anonymous ftp

Some time ago someone wrote (s)he had seen Origami stuff on ftp.uu.net.
I had a look and saw it was a mirror of rugcis.rug.nl.
So if I add something to rugcis.rug.nl it will appear on ftp.uu.net also
but with some delay. The delay depends on their mirror frequency...

But if you want to access ftp you may try there.
In the morning hours that is faster than rugcis.rug.nl I expect, but after
about 13.00 rugcis.rug.nl should be fast enough (then we are back home again;
mind the time difference of at least 6 hours).

Maarten van Gelder                   M.J.van.Gelder@RC.RUG.NL
Lichtboei 210                        Rekencentrum Rijksuniversiteit RuG
9732 JK  Groningen                   Groningen
Holland                              Holland





Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 10:33:11 AST
From: AHELM@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: Replies to Virtual Origami & math stuff

If you need a sase for sending from a foreign country, try IRC (international
reply coupons) sold through your home country's post office.  They are good for
the cost of one normal airmail letter.  The foreign sender "cashes" them in
to cover postage.

RE: This listserver.

Well, I think I'm glad that I found this place.  It sounds like there are some
real professionals around here, but a lot of enthusiasts as well.  My name is
Anthony Helm, living in Austin, Texas.  I've been doing origami (semi)seriously
for about five years, but have been fascinated since childhood when I folded my
first crane.  I now have a good, little collection of books picked up in Japan.
I try to get the more challenging books, put out by Kasahara, Maekawa, and the
like.  Robert Lang's books too are quite challenging, so much so that I may ask
for some help from someone out there.

Anyway, glad to be on the server.

Cheers,
Anthony Helm





Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 15:24:45 AST
From: GALLO@DIPMAT.UNICT.IT.
Subject: a good Japanese bookstore

There is a very good Japanese bookstore in New York City, at Rockfeller Center.
I do not remmeber the name. It is just there at the left of the iceskating track
They have a quite large selection of Origami books and paper.

Giovanni





Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 16:15:13 AST
From: lavin@MIT.EDU
Subject: Re: a good Japanese bookstore

...The store you're describing should be Kinokuniya.  They have
branches in Tokyo, San Francisco and New York (maybe London, too, I
can't remember.)  Great store!  (Wish I could get them to move
*here*...)

Anne R. LaVin                    | "Say, Pooh, why aren't YOU busy?" I said.
lavin@mit.edu                    | "Because it's a nice day," said Pooh.
MIT Information Systems          | "Yes, but---"
(617) 253-0115                   | "Why ruin it?" he said.





Date: Mon, 24 Jan 94 18:49:37 AST
From: Comet <COMET@us.oracle.com>
Subject: International SASE

Ask at your local post office.  I think there may be such a thing as an
international post cover, which would be an envelope which has prepaid postage
for international mailing, good from any country.  :)





Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 03:34:06 AST
From: "M.J.van.Gelder" <M.J.van.Gelder@rc.rug.nl>
Subject: SASE

On the subject of SASE:

I am a member of the Model commitee in Holland.
In this commitee we scan incoming models for originality to prevent models
plagiated.
If a model comes we send trough the sender a form with questions about author
of the model, eventually book it is copied from, permission to publish,
etcetera.
When sent abroad this form is accompanied by an SASE for international answer.
We had no complaints about this, so I assume it works (I didn't use it
myself, one of the other members is handling the foreign models).

Maarten van Gelder                   M.J.van.Gelder@RC.RUG.NL
Lichtboei 210                        Rekencentrum Rijksuniversiteit RuG
9732 JK  Groningen                   Groningen
Holland                              Holland





Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 03:54:30 AST
From: base00!jhc@codas.attmail.com
Subject: international SASE

Sjaak writes:

>On the subject of sending things through snail mail:

>I read some messages with instructions to obtain paper copies of some
>things (virtual origami, dividing an angle in three, etc.). Most of them
>involve a 'sase', which turned out to mean 'self addressed stamped
>envelope'. (It took me some time to find this out!)

>But what should you do if you live in f.i. the Netherlands (as I do) and
>the sender(s) of the messages are Americans, Swedes, Englishmen, etc?

In the U.S., at least, there is something called an "International Reply
Coupon" (IRC), or something like that, made specifically for international SASE.
Go down to your friendly post office and tell them what you're trying to do.
Although I've never used it, I think you pay for the coupon at the post
office, and use it like a stamp on the SASE, but the two countries have some
deal going where they bill each other for the IRC's used.

Hope this helps!

P.S.  I still agree, though, that mutual exchange of diagrams or origami
is often the best policy.  You might try to suggest this in a politic manner
by either offering a diagram if you're receiving one, or else asking the
other party what their favorite folds are, if you're sending one!

-- Javier

 + jhc@codas.attmail.com            +  AT&T                               +
 + Javier Cubero                    +  Orlando, Florida                   +





Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 12:52:44 AST
From: AHELM@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu
Subject: Re: selling origami Was: Stores in Boston

Actually, I was wondering if someone out there has some addresses of origami
newsletters to which I may subscribe.  In the past I was reading the origami
magazine published in Japan, but now that I have returned to the US, the price
of that is beyond my reach.  So, I would really appreciate finding addresses
of other newsletters/magazines published in other countries, as well as here
in America.

Thanks in advance.

Cheers,
Anthony Helm
ahelm@utxvms.cc.utexas.edu





Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 17:58:03 AST
From: "T.K. Lam" <mud05@cc.keele.ac.uk>
Subject: Re: origami for profit

  Greetings!
     I've always thought most paper folders formed an informal network based
on the friendly exchange of ideas.  It worries me that if send instructions
for a model to someone, they can copy it and sell it, without even asking
for my consent.  One of my models has appeared in a book(with my name
misspelt!), but with my waiving of copyright.  In many books today there's a
notice stating that the author asserts his moral rights - I think this means
that it may not be copied nor reproduced with alterations unless the author
consents.(same thing with music recordings).  Does this only apply with the
force of a large publisher behind it?

     IMHO,it seems wrong to make money out of generosity and friendliness of
most folders who make their designs public.  Most creators are only too
pleased to have their models published, the only reward usually being a
complimentary copy of the book.  But back in the early days, Robert
Harbin seems to have had a hard time getting some creators to show how their
models are made("Secrets of Origami").  Even now, Yoshizawa has a reputation
for only allowing his instructions to appear in his own books(occasionly in
other authors' books and magazines).

    Regards,
      Tung Ken Lam
      mud05@cc.keele.ac.uk





Date: Tue, 25 Jan 94 22:50:51 AST
From: vann@andataco.com (V'Ann Cornelius)
Subject: Re: Replies to Virtual Origami & math stuff

>But what should you do if you live in f.i. the Netherlands (as I do) and
>the sender(s) of the messages are Americans, Swedes, Englishmen, etc?
>
>Has anyone solved this little problem? Things I can think of:

Sjaak,
People have sent me requests for lists from the Origami Model Index
from other contries.  They have a small coupon that they get from
their 'post office'. My post office accepts the coupon and affixes
the required postage.

-v'ann-                             1828 Dora Drive
                                    Cardiff-by-the-Sea, CA 92007
vann@andataco.com                   (619) 753-9623





Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 05:15:25 AST
From: njulshaf@halcyon.com (Natalie Jo Ulshafer)
Subject: Greetings all....

Hello there!!

I have been reading the archives <albeit rather slowly> and was inspired to
say a few things....

First of all, has anyone thought of doing "quick-time" movies of origami
folds??  I do not know alot about this... maybe it would not be an easy
thing to do....

Now, a bit about myself.... The first thing I ever folded was a jumping
frog... I don't remember where it came from, but I had this little orange
<construction paper frog> that I carefully unfolded and then copied <I was
about 7...>  I found that scotch tape worked best for frogs.... I even had
a little box full of tiny celophane frogs.... only problem with them is
since they were clear and jumped incredibly far, many were lost :(

I have tried making my own inexpensive paper <I work at a Kinko's> by using
the cheap stuff and copying a paper with texture in black or red to get the
2 color effect....but standard paper doesn't hold creases very well....

Here in Seattle, we have a Japaneese grocery store that carries origami
paper by the ounce..... and lots of packets of it as well...

Anyway, just wanted to let everyone know I am here.... and if anyone has
any really good bug folds.... let me know!!

Nat

e-mail: njulshaf@halcyon.com





Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 05:24:24 AST
From: njulshaf@halcyon.com (Natalie Jo Ulshafer)
Subject: models shown in books...

Ah, I almost forgot.... regarding pictures of models in books with no hint
as to how to fold them.....  In Kasahara's Creative Origami, on the last
page of the book before the index, there is a picture of a wolf folded from
newsprint... Can anyone out there help me figure out how to fold this?????

thanks...

Nat

e-mail  njulshaf@halcyon.com





Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 06:19:35 AST
From: "M.J.van.Gelder" <M.J.van.Gelder@rc.rug.nl>
Subject: Re: selling origami Was: Stores in Boston

Antony,

You write:

m>Actually, I was wondering if someone out there has some addresses of origami
m>newsletters to which I may subscribe.  In the past I was reading the origami
m>magazine published in Japan, but now that I have returned to the US, the price
m>of that is beyond my reach.  So, I would really appreciate finding addresses
m>of other newsletters/magazines published in other countries, as well as here
m>in America.

On the anonymous ftp site rugcis.rug.nl (our archives) are two files of
interest (see also the FAQ):

   assocadr.txt    addresses of Origami associations; most of them publish
                   a magazine
   newslett.txt    newsletters and magazines on Origami from other sources

In the newslett.txt are also the prices for the subscription.
In assocadr.txt are no prices, but I want to add the fee for the associations
also when I know them.

Maarten van Gelder                   M.J.van.Gelder@RC.RUG.NL
Lichtboei 210                        Rekencentrum Rijksuniversiteit RuG
9732 JK  Groningen                   Groningen
Holland                              Holland





Date: Wed, 26 Jan 94 09:28:52 AST
From: base00!jhc@codas.attmail.com
Subject: Welcome!

Welcome, Nat.

You wrote:

>First of all, has anyone thought of doing "quick-time" movies of origami
>folds??  I do not know alot about this... maybe it would not be an easy
>thing to do....

Hmm. Good idea, I think.  I'm not sure what's involved, though.  Anyone out
there know about quick-time movies????

>Now, a bit about myself.... The first thing I ever folded was a jumping
>frog... I don't remember where it came from, but I had this little orange
><construction paper frog> that I carefully unfolded and then copied <I was
>about 7...>  I found that scotch tape worked best for frogs.... I even had
>a little box full of tiny celophane frogs.... only problem with them is
>since they were clear and jumped incredibly far, many were lost :(

I'm curious.  If you used scotch tape, I assume you did something to make
it non-sticky?  Also, that's one tiny frog!  I also got my start in origami
by unfolding and copying a gift -- a dragon in my case.

>I have tried making my own inexpensive paper <I work at a Kinko's> by using
>the cheap stuff and copying a paper with texture in black or red to get the
>2 color effect....but standard paper doesn't hold creases very well....

And copied inks tend to rub off on the creases. :-(  I know. I love penguins,
and once was trying to fold a whole flock of them, but they never give you
enough black paper in those packs.  So I thought I'd photocopy some black
squares and make my own....but as you discovered, it doesn't work too well.

>Here in Seattle, we have a Japaneese grocery store that carries origami
>paper by the ounce..... and lots of packets of it as well...

Good idea.  I'll have to look for a Japanese grocery in Orlando.  I'm sure
we've got some, andthey might just carry paper!

>Anyway, just wanted to let everyone know I am here....

Welcome!

>and if anyone has any really good bug folds.... let me know!!

For an excellent...but difficult...bug fold, try the Praying Mantis by
Robert Lang, on ftp at rugcis.rug.nl, it's awesome!
Also, I have a great tarantula sitting atop my computer from another book
by Lang....can't remember the name offhand, but it's the one with the
violinist and the cuckoo clock (help! Mental Block!).

-- Javier

 + jhc@codas.attmail.com            +  AT&T                               +
 + Javier Cubero                    +  Orlando, Florida                   +
