




Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 15:25:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Angelo Trivelli <at1r+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Hi everyone


I have been reading this list for a few months now and I thought I should
introduce myself.

My experience with origami started with John Montroll's book "Origami for
Enthusiasts" over ten years ago. Since then I've done origami sporadically,
mostly animals. Last summer I got my hands on Peter Engell's book "Folding
the Universe" and have been working through it. I have done a few original
creations but they are just generic animal-morphs derived from standard bases.

Here's my two cents on some issues that have been brought up:
-People-that-throw-away-beautiful-origami-creations-that-you-gave-them:
  For me the greatest pleasure from origami comes from successfully folding
  a difficult figure and then giving it to somebody that would have never
  thought it possible to make something so complex from a sheet of paper.
  I do not take pains to keep anything I folded because I eventually get
  bored of looking at it. Giving a creation away is great for the initial
  joy it creates. What happens afterwords is not worth the effort to think
  about because you can always give away another.

-Wet folding / Paper :
  What is wet folding? I never heard about it. Sounds difficult. Does this
  mean folding paper while it is submerged in water?
  As far as paper goes I think the paper used should depend on the model and
  the context. In a high stress working environment, a frog made out of the
source of your anxiety (a piece of paper you wish you never got) is wonderful.
Other times a careful meticulous model made out of crisp natural-tone paper
is more appropriate. My personal favorite is huge 18 in squares of woodblock
printing paper- it is fiberous and ill-tempered but I like the feel of it.
Gift-wrap paper is nice too. Architect's vellum is good for extremely crisp
mathematically precise models.
The notion of Hare/Ke is interesting to think about here. It is brought up
by Yoshizawa in Engel's book.
-Orgami as art and traditional origami:
  I think it is counterproductive to categorize origami. The inventors of the
models should receive more credit however. I think that western culture tends
to reward only activity that results in monumental monolithic creations-- this
might also be seen as a characteristic of modernism. A lifetime spent designing
concise, diverse, and ephemeral paper forms that are spread around the world by
thousands of paper folders is not an activity that corresponds well to the
established notions of western art. Hopefully, origami will be one of many
activities and ideas that will break the western art continuum.

  Some people are strict with the rules that origami supposedly has. There is
nothing wrong with this, I think, if these alleged rules are not imposed
heavily. In painting, it is possible to appreciate the rule-laden
painting of the 18th century and at the same time to appreciate postmodern
works that break rules as a given. I think origami should work this way as
well.

Also, it seems that origami is seen strictly as a Japanese form. I have
heard about other cultures that have paper-folding, the moorish,but I think
there are probably more. Does anyone know where to find information about
non-Japanese origami?

In spite of what I just wrote, I still use the traditional one-sheet-of-square-
paper origami-- it works for me just fine!

---Angelo Trivelli  (at1r@andrew.cmu.edu)

Does John Montroll read this list? If he does I thank him for the wonderful
books he wrote.





From: Sheila Wassmer x3549 <sew@hpfitst1.fc.hp.com>
Subject: Re: That Origami Book on Sale
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 14:25:43 MST

> I saw a beautiful hardcover origami book put together by Gay Merrill
> Gross on the sale table at Paperback Booksmith in Harvard Square this
> weekend.
> Can anyone tell me more about
> this book?  If it's going to disappear into oblivion I'd like to grab
> a copy first.
>
> Elsa
>
        I know which book you're talking about, but the title escapes
        me right now.  They have several copies at *the* bookstore in
        Fort Collins, CO, and everytime I go there I contemplate buying
        it (I'll cave in eventually).  It is a new book and retails for
        $11.  As you mentioned it has some beutiful models of
        common things--boxes, wallets, picture frames, etc.  I wouldn't
        worry too much about the sale book disappearing forever from
        your neck of the woods, as you should be able to special order
        it from any good book store.

        On the subject of books, I picked up Montroll's _Prehistoric
        Origami_ and Montroll & Lang's _Origami Sealife_ over the
        weekend.  I haven't yet had a chance to try my hand at any of
        the figures, but they all look fascinating.  They seem to be
        the typical closely detailed, I-never-get-it-right-on-the-first-
        try type of figures that both artists are so good at creating.
        If you like what Montroll and Lang have published before (and
        since I know both read this mailing list, may I say that I do,
        please publish more!) you ought to check these books out.

        On a final note, I've been reading some of the archives and I
        found that several people mentioned _The Complete Book of Origami_
        by Lang(?)  I looked for it at the Japanese store in Denver that
        carries *everything* and they didn't have it.  Have I messed up
        on the author or the title, or is it so new (or old) that it
        can't be found in regular stores.  Anyone have more info on this?

--
        Regards,


        ______  _               _
       /     / //              //
      /       //              //                        Sheila Wassmer
      -----  /___   ____  o  // ____                 sew@hpfitst1.hp.com
   _______/_/   /  /___/ /  /  /   /                      229-3549
  /______/ /   <__<_____/__/__<___<__





From: brad@cs.utexas.edu (blumenthal @ home with the armadillos)
Date: Mon, 29 Oct 90 14:48:09 CST
Subject: phone number

I took Roz's class in wet folding at the Origami Convention.  It can be
a real bitch if you get the paper too wet, so take your time and try
to use as little water as possible.  You can mix a drop of white glue
in with your water if you want the result to be especially stiff.

Just flipping through the origami paper in my briefcase, the only stuff
I have with a label using the Roman alphabet is Yusumoto & CO of Brisbane,
CA.  All I have is some foil from them, and it is decidedly *not* square.
Kami is generally a pretty decent brand.

Gay's book is really nice.  I got a look at it last summer up at the Home
Office.  The reason it's so cheap is that it was done through a very small
press that likes to deal in off-the-beaten-path art stuff, but they also
do small runs.  I'd grab it up if I were you, it does have some unusual and
very nice folds, even if they are fairly simple.  Besides, Gay is a
wonderful person, and we all want another press run of her book, right?

Back to dissertation bashing.  Sigh.  I wish I had more time to fold.

Take care,
brad

P.S. I'll repeat my plea for someone to take over this list.  I'm going
to be leaving the country in January, and I'll probably have to shut it
down if noone steps forward (I'm going to be in England, and I don't
know how they'll feel about all that trans-pond email).  I've got most
of this thing automated so it's not terribly much work.

BBB





Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 09:08 MET
From: Maarten van Gelder <MAARTEN%RUG.NL@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Disposable_Origami

The way you create your Origami gift (with care, appropriate paper, nicely
wrapped, etc.) has a strong influence on the disposal of it after you give it
away.
But there are some kinds of objects you can make and you may be pretty sure
they are not thrown away: objects you can use as decoration. You indeed may
make a vase with flowers. But also you may create some objects to 'decorate'
the person who it is given to. P.e. buttons, brooches and ear-rings. These
kinds of objects are made here in Holland very often.
Via our postal-order they sell empty buttons with a transparent lid in which
you can put your own creation. Also they sell the basical parts of earrings
(clips and hangers) on which you can glue your objects to attach it to your
ears.
I made some pairs of earrings for my daughter (same model in different colors)
and she likes (uses) them.
A lot of members of our association do so, but I think that is because most of
them are woman. I don't know how it is in other associations but in Holland we
have over 6000 members of which are about 600 man (one out of ten!). In the
last 6 years our association grew with 50% a year. That's why most of the
members are new to Origami and make easy things. They mostly use their objects
to make X-mas and birthday-cards and the like. Typically disposable Origami.

Maarten van Gelder                         MAARTEN@RC.RUG.NL
Lichtboei 210
9732 JK  Groningen
Holland





Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 09:33:49 EST
From: elsa@GANDALF.LL.MIT.EDU (Elsa Chen)
Subject: Lang book still exists, more list info?


Thank you, Sheila and Brad, for your replies! If the book is still
there I'll grab it - sounds like a good bet. And I'll give the Home
Office a call ASAP.

Sheila, I've seen Lang's book out here at our counterparts of "THE
bookstore," and I have a copy. It's pretty recent; I think it came out
sometime after Montroll's 2 Dover books, _Origami for the Enthusiast_
and _Animal Origami for the Enthusiast_. There's a neat biplane and a
cuckoo clock in it that I'm working up the courage to try someday.
I'll go look at my copy at home and see who the publisher is, what the
ISBN is, and so forth. It's an excellent book with a rather
mundane-sounding title that almost made me pass it over until I looked
inside. I'm sure you could get it through FOCA, but if you would like
me to stop by the local bookstore, pick up one, and mail it to you in
exchange for the cost and the postage, I'd be willing to do that. If
this is the big-Dover-sized orange book I'm thinking of, we got plenty
here. (jm2c - since Bob himself reads this list, he might have some
more useful information.)

(Where's the "cent" key on my 'puter keyboard? Went down with the
economy and manual typewriters?)

Brad, about getting someone to take over the list - you may have
posted this before and I missed it, but what are the gory details of
what's involved? I'm no UNIX weenie, just a user, so "use small
words." If it hasn't been posted before, more info might make someone
interested. How much time is involved? Is this a daily commitment? How
big a chunk of time? I know nothing about running a mailing list.  I
just have an Athena account at MIT that isn't being used for much
these days since I have this work account and haven't been getting to
campus much these days, and I've really enjoyed this list and would
hate to see it go.

Elsa





Date:    Tue, 30 Oct 1990 13:33:44 PST
From: RLANG@JPLLSI.JPL.NASA.GOV
Subject: "Complete Book of Origami"

Sheila,

Yes indeed, "The Complete Book of Origami," by yours truly, remains in
print. It was published about 18 months ago. It is published by Dover,
which probably means it will be in print forever (they've never let a
book go out of print!) You can order it directly from Dover, from your
local bookstore (ISBN 0-486-25837-8), or from FOCA.

As long as I'm slinging ads, let me mention you can also buy Origami
Zoo, written by me and Stephen Weiss, and Origami Sea Life, written by
me and John Montroll, from FOCA as well.

In the not-to-distant future, you will also be able to buy all of John's
books through Dover as well, including his upcoming "African Wildlife"
book, which I saw about 2/3 of at a recent trip to Washington, and which
promises to be another winner.

Robert J. Lang





From: brad@cs.utexas.edu (blumenthal @ home with the armadillos)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 16:04:47 CST
Subject: African Wildlife

Oh boy.  Are we in for it now!  If Montroll is doing a book called
"African WIldlife," then I'll bet poetry to push-pins that his zebra
is in there.  This is one of the most amazing, difficult, but doable
folds I have ever encountered.  If you make it from a piece of paper
that has a different color on each side, it has stripes.  Yes, that's
right, campers, stripes.  And of course, since it's a Montroll fold,
you know that it is one piece of square paper with no cutting, tearing
or other nastiness.

Now then, I folded this beast, under John's guidance, at the
convention.  Took me a little over two hours.  My favorite quote of
that session was John telling us that he had tried to design the fold
so that the white side of the paper stayed out most of the time.  That
way, the black side (or whatever color) won't get your hands dirty.
The thought of figuring out stripes boggles my mind; doing it without
getting your hands dirty?  Well, don't try this at home kids, John is
a trained professional, working with specal equipment.

I hear he's got a striped tiger too.  And a cow (say, John, is the
lean, mean Holstein going to be in this new book?) with different
spots on each side.

On another topic, what does it take to run a mailing list?  Not
terribly much.  Mostly it takes disk space.  The archives are now
around 5 meg with Robert's drawings taking up about 1 additional meg.
This will probably grow as we get some more diagrams.  Time is
minimal.  I get about four or five administrative requests on a busy
week.  A delete takes about 45 seconds.  An add takes about 2 minutes.
The rest of the list is automated, and the adds and deletes could be
made a lot faster, I'm sure, but I like to write a little something by
hand for each.  If you have a unix host then I can send along the
shell scripts that I use.  Archiving and making the diagrams available
requires a little bit more time, but not more than about 5 minutes a
week, and most of that is because the ftp directory gets cleaned out
every other week.  If you are sysgod level on your system and you have
the disk space, adminsitering the list will take you a lot less time
than you spend reading it.

Take care,
brad





Date: Tue, 30 Oct 90 10:13 EDT
From: TCHULL%AMHERST.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: potatoes.....

Elsa-- That Gross book is new, I believe. A friend showed me a copy. Not
sure why it was on sale, normally it runs for about $12. A beautiful book,
though. If you're a collector, I'd snag it.

RE: wet folding and such
Whenever I hear people talking about wet-folding, they always describe the
process as folding paper that has been dampened. What is the advantage of
this? Whenever I wet-fold something, I fold it "dry" first and then dunk it
in water; less mess and you don't risk tearing or getting the paper so wet
that you can't fold it. I think my results are comparable to what other
origamiatics do. Also, some types of paper, especially thick "background"
or construction paper, likes to expand when it gets wet, which would pose
problems to the folding process. So I ask, why bother getting the paper
wet before the model is completed?
     Another thing that lends itself to wet-folding and making origami less
disposable is paper-dying. Try dropping colored ink onto a wet piece of paper!
The ink "runs" into the grains of the paper and can make wild results! I
believe that Mark Kennedy has done some workshops on this at con's and such,
so this may be old news to some of you. Another dying trick is to simply take
a colored sheet of paper and get it wet. Sometimes the ink used is water
soluable (sp?) and will run all over, adding an element of randomness to the
wet folding idea. Most paper does not do this, however. But tissue paper
usually does, or at least the type that I use (Niji makes it, I believe. It
comes in folded-up rolls in all sorts of colors). This stuff is great, because
you can take a piece of white paper, such as computer paper, and put it back-
to-back with the water-soluable tissue paper, and then fold your model keeping
the tissue on the inside of the model. Then, when you're done, dunk it in
water! The dye will run into the paper and do amazing things! Be sure not to
let all of the dye just run "off" of the paper when you get it wet. And be
patient; sometimes you won't be albe to see the dye until the model has dried
a bit.

Have fun, everyone!
------------------------------Thomas "killer-bee" Hull ;-)





From: brad@cs.utexas.edu (blumenthal @ home with the armadillos)
Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 11:01:13 CST

Re: Thomas Hull's message witht he subject "potatoes."  ("Lemon currey?")

One of the main reasons for wet folding, other than to make the fold
more permanent is to be able to fold paper that would otherwise not
fold very well, for instance, very old or very thick paper that is too
brittle or unpliable.  It also works well on vinyl cloth and other
unusual materials.

Dunking (or just spraying with a plant sprayer) your final models
sounds like a much easier way of getting permanence for your folds.

Take care,
brad





Date: Thu, 1 Nov 90 15:24 EST
From: TCHULL%AMHERST.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: Don't know much about history...

Re: Origami History

Yo, Angello! You mentioned something about the Moors dabbling in origami.
You are A-1+ absosutely correct, except they didn't do too much with it.
It was against the Moorish ethic to represent living orgamisms in a non-
living medium. This is why all the art that the Moors are known for are
geometry-laden, for example their mosaic tile tessalations are rather well
known. Thus their experiments with origami never strayed very far from
straight-edge and compass experiments in paper. I'm not sure if they developed
any of the bases that the Japanese did, which would wild if true!

As far as any other cultures doing the paper-folding thing, in all the research
that I've done, I've never come across any that did any significant origami
other than the Japanese, the Chinese, and the Moors. The Chinese should be
mentioned since they did discover paper-making, as thus were probably the first
to fold it. They do have some traditional models too. Eric Kenneway mentiones
them in his book Complete Origami. The Chinese junk is the most well-known
traditional Chinese fold. However, the Chinese didn't seem to develop a
"strictly folding" ethic like the Japanese. For example, the Chinese would
create elaborate replicas of worldly possesions entirely out of paper. These
replicas would then be used in funeral ceremonies and burned with the dead.
My references state that in the creation of these replicas anything was
allowed- ie, it was paper sculpture, not origami.

So the really deep question is why did only the Japanese develop and embrace
origami in such a big way? I'll try to comment on that later when my work-
stress level goes down a couple degrees....

waka waka..
----------------- Thomas "rockabily" Hull





Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 19:16 EST
From: "John A. MONTROLL" <jm151@umail.umd.edu>
Subject: capturing creative creases

Hi everyone!

   This weekend is the Fall Folding Fun Fest. Will you be there? I plan to
teach a gazelle, from my African manuscript, and a chessboard. So far I've
drawn up about 105 pages of the African book and plan on a 144 page book. So
give me a little time! Brad-you are right, the zebra will be in it.
   Thanks, Angelo Trivelli, for your good comments!!!
    This past summer in visited Japan for the fourth time. I've always known
that origami means very different things to everyone and I tried to
understand the Japanese's view. Many of the Japanese consider origami to be
a child's activity. There are several groups of women who like to fold
simple models, especially flowers. There are a few young men who like to
design more complex work, including very detailed dinosaurs. I am mainly an
animal folder and, by seeing the Japanese origami, animals are just one
small subject to be folded.

Bye





Date: Thu, 01 Nov 90 19:31 EST
From: "John A. MONTROLL" <jm151@umail.umd.edu>
Subject: creating creases

Hi Everyone,

This weekend is the Fall Folding Fun Fest in NY. Will you be there? I plan
to teach a gazelle, from the African manuscript, and a chessboard. I'm
working on an African animal origami book and have drwan up a little over
100 pages of the 144 page book.

This past summer I visited Japan for the fourth time. Many of the Japanese
think that origami is a simple thing, meant for children. There are several
groups of women who like to fold simple things, especially flowers. There
are a few young men who like to design more complicated models, in
particular detailed dinosaurs.

They tell me in Japan that is is very difficult to write an origami book.
Part of it is that they have very little free time, anyway, because of their
demanding jobs...

Hope to see some of you soon.  Bye.   John Montroll





Date: Fri, 2 Nov 90 14:56:53 -0500
From: tsai@ecn.purdue.edu (et al.)

Subject: introduction

Hello!

     My name is Ben Tsai.  I am a graduate student in Mechanical
Engineering at Purdue University.  My wife and I were both born
in Taiwan, and our interests in origami stem from cultural ties.
So, I wanted to see what kind of neat stuff goes on in the world
of origami (over e-mail).  That's why I signed up on the origami
interest group.

                                                Ben Tsai.





From: dz@irst.it (Massimo Dal Zotto)
Subject: introducing myself
Date: Mon, 5 Nov 90 12:09:06 MET DST

Hello

my name is Massimo  Dal Zotto.
I work in an italian public research institute in Trento, Italy.
My interest in origami begun two years ago when, while I was waiting
for long compilations in front of a Lisp Machine, my collegue
started to make paper insects.
Recently I have seen this mailing list in an article from the news
and I have just been curious to see what is being discussed here.

Massimo  Dal Zotto





Date: Thu, 08 Nov 90 13:51 EST
From: "John A. MONTROLL" <jm151@umail.umd.edu>
Subject: two letters

To Everyone,
 Last week I wanted to say hi to all of you. Towards the end of my letter
the computer seemed to have been hungup so I turned the machine off and
tried again. I was quite surprised that the first letter was sent! So sorry
about the duplicate messages!
 I just returned from the Fall Folding Fun Fest in NY. Many were there
learning all kinds of origami.

Bye,
    John Montroll





Date:     Tue, 27 Nov 90 15:40 H
From: <CSSNET%NUSDISCS.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:  Boxes...

I've been on this list for a few months, but didn't post any messages,
mainly coz there isn't much I have to say.

For those of you who are interested, I'm a final year student in the
National University of Singapore, majoring in computer science. Origami
is not my main hobby, but I like dabbling in it from time to time.

I'd bought a book recently - Origami Boxes by Tomoko Fuse. Its IMHO a
very interesting book. Actually I was looking for a book on modular
origami by her, but this is the closest thing I could find. Most of
the origami books available here seems (unfortunately) targeted at
children.

If anybody happen to have this book (published by Chikuma Shobo, Japan),
do you know how to fold the inserts shown on page 6? Four of the inserts
fit into an octagonal box, dividing it into four equal compartments. Any
help would be appreciated.


Kiong Peng            Bitnet:  LIMKIONG@NUSDISCS   or   CSSNET@NUSDISCS





Date: Thu Dec 6 12:27:28 1990
From: mskelton@wrdis01.af.mil (GS-11 Mark Skelton;1926 CCSG/SCS)
Subject: holiday-gami

Does anyone know about a good fold for the season's greetings which will
fit well on a card, and in an envelope ?   -Mark





From: ylsul@ATHENA.MIT.EDU
Subject: Hello!
Date: Mon, 10 Dec 90 12:43:43 EST


Hi!

My name is Young Sul from MIT. I was referred to this list by Anne LaVin
(who, by the looks of the archives, seems to have been here from day 1!).

I got started in origami by picking my sister up from the day-care centre:
a Japanese mom showed me neat folds while we were waiting for day-care to
end. I used to habitually fold my limited repertoire whenever I was waiting
for a plane, train, dentist, etc...

I just recently discovered some of those great origami books, and was blown
away when I saw that rose in _Origami for Connoiseurs_(sp?). So here I am!

Side question: if you have a square, how can you fold 7 'equal' segments
if you're folding radially from one corner?

				cheers!
				Young 'no, that's a network problem' Sul





Date:    Tue, 11 Dec 90 10:39 PST
From: "Nikola Djurovic"                           <JAT0003%YUBGSS21.BITNET@pucc.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: Re: origami mailing list

 Respected Origami Makers,

 I am new on this list, and I'd like to introduce myself.
 I have acces to Bitnet/Internet from Earn, from my node YUBGSS21,
 Yugoslavia from my office.
 When I was very young my father makes me happy with origamies.
 I am origami lover and this is the reason why I am now subscriber.
 Help to Mr. Brad for help and welcome... See you later netfolks and
 have a nice day |

 Nikola Djurovic, MVS programmer





From: andataco!vann@ucsd.edu
Date: Tue, 11 Dec 90 22:32:39 PST
Subject: season greeting

mark

>>Does anyone know about a good fold for the season's greetings which will
>>fit well on a card, and in an envelope ?   -Mark

A model of a christmas tree is in 'New Adventures in Origami' by Robert Harbin
published in 1971. The tree itself was designed/diagrammed by Ligia Montoya
of Argentina.
I have simplified the design to eleminate creases.
use a square
   fold in half on both diagonals,
   fold all sides along the center fold.
   turn the model over
   fold all sides to the creases made above.
      (the paper now has a clear diamond shape in the center with the
      one diagonal fold marking the center.)
   gently fold on that crease such that the diamond becomes hidden and the
      points meet. (Notice the shape is now your fundamental pine tree shape.)

To form the trunk, bring one point down in such a way that the "tree shape"
    remains and the small diamond is opened. (This will be the back.)
    Fold the down turned point in half, toward the back.
    Fold the single surface over the 'diamond-folded-to-the-middle' and
      squash fold to the tree tips.

Montoya's tree has several dramatic difference to the above directions.
He shows how to make branches, for instance.

The above model will fit into a standard legal envelope when made from 8"
paper.

I hope this helps you,
V'Ann Cornelius





From: brad@cs.utexas.edu (blumenthal @ home with the armadillos)
Date: Wed, 12 Dec 90 08:11:07 CST

As an aside, Ligia Monoya was a woman.  Upon her death, she left a large
trunk of undiagrammed origami folds to the Friends of the Origami Center
of America.  The hitch is that the trunk is in Argentina, and the Friends
need to send one of their officers to retrieve it.  If anyone is going to
Argentina someday and wants some company.... :-)

Take care,
brad





Date: Wed, 12 Dec 90 11:04:39 -0500
From: donnald@aplpy.jhuapl.edu (Creighton Donnald)

brad,

     Do you have any other folds in PostScript form other than the peacock
and mantis currently in the tmp directory?  If so, is there a list or a way
to get at them?

-Creig Donnald





From: Amanda Lynn Babcock <amanda@wam.umd.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 90 01:43:13 -0500

Hello, I am new on this list; I am a [soon-to-be-sophomore] at the University
of Maryland, where I found USENET, on which was a list of mailing lists, where
I saw this list. Which is how I got here.
   I've been interested in origami since childhood (why? because it was *neat,*
that's why!) (or maybe because of my older cousin Jean who knew how to fold
paper dragons), and thought this would be a great place to get new ideas
without waiting around for the next good book to come around (then waiting for
someone to buy it for me...)
   Happy Folding!
                                              ---amanda





From: Amanda Lynn Babcock <amanda@wam.umd.edu>
Date: Tue, 18 Dec 90 01:43:13 -0500

Hello, I am new on this list; I am a [soon-to-be-sophomore] at the University
of Maryland, where I found USENET, on which was a list of mailing lists, where
I saw this list. Which is how I got here.
   I've been interested in origami since childhood (why? because it was *neat,*
that's why!) (or maybe because of my older cousin Jean who knew how to fold
paper dragons), and thought this would be a great place to get new ideas
without waiting around for the next good book to come around (then waiting for
someone to buy it for me...)
   Happy Folding!
                                              ---amanda





Date: Fri, 4 Jan 91 11:08 EST
From: TCHULL%AMHERST.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU
Subject: ori-stuff

Hi everybody! I've got some questions to ask and things to say, now that I'm
an official college graduate with nothing better to do (ie, unemployed).

Question: I'm going to be in Europe from Feb. 12-Mar. 21. Does anyone know
of any origami organizations/things (other than the BOS) that I could contact?
I'll have a Eurail pass, so travelling should not be a problem. However, I
only speak English, but origami transends language right? :=) How about that
righteous Holland group? Does anyone from there still read this list?

Debatable and disturbing thoughts: I got a bone to pick about the purist
attitude concerning the folding medium; mainly people who frown on using
foil, cardboard, cellophane, or other "alternative" mediums in which to fold.
The purist argument is that these types of paper can let you get away with
folds that are impossible to do with real paper, but what is "real" paper?
I would argue that "real" paper is handmade, that is, the type of stuff you
can make with some pulp, a bucket, and a window screen. But this type of
"paper" is not very nice to fold. I know, I know, this argument may seem silly.
But the truth is that the paper that we've come to call "real" paper is made
by a machine with pulp that has been ground up into a super-fine substance
and been pressed super-flat (that's why it folds so well). Yet isn't this
just one type of paper, among the many different types of thickness, texture,
flexability, etc.? Why should we restrict ourselves to one type of paper?
In my opinion, this would be limiting the possibilities of origami.
     For example, on many occasions a rather unexperienced folder would look
at one of the complicated insects that I have made and would say, "Cowabunga!
Teach me how to make THAT!" But these insects are so complex that I would
shy away from trying to teach such a thing to a beginner. However, I have
found some simple, but complex looking, insects that require using foil. These
are simple enough so that an ambitious beginner could tackle them. Thus in
this case using foil allows a beginner to create something that would otherwise
be unattainable, all because of the advantages of foil. Plus, this model was
good experience and practice for working up to some truely complicated insects.
     I'm sure this example is just one of the many advantages that using
alternative types of folding medium can bring. Any opposing/concurring
viewpoints out there?

That's all for now.
--------------------------------Thomas "let-it-snow" Hull





Date: Sat,  5 Jan 91 19:13:13 -0500 (EST)
From: John Trivelli <jt2n+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Re: paper types (in response to thomas hull)


About "real paper":

I agree that handmade paper is really the true "real paper" but it is important
to differentiate between japanese handmade paper and western handmade paper.

The handmade paper that Thomas was refering to is western (European)

European handmade paper is made from linen and cotton rags. (Although these
days I believe it is made from cotton linters which is a byproduct of the
textile industry). It usually is pretty white and relatively thick. Watermarks,
those designs that you see when you hold the paper up to the light, are a big
deal. I cannot imagine using rag handmade paper for origami unless It was a
really simple design. This kind of paper is stiff and usually has no grain.
The manufacturing process consists of suspending the fibers in water,
collecting the fibers in a screen, sanwiching the paper between felt, and
squeezing out the water.


Japanese paper has been around for a much longer time and the manufacturing
process allows for the production of many different kinds of paper. In
art stores you might see japanese paper refered to as rice paper. It is not
really made from rice, the name comes from the fact that sometimes a starch
from the rice is used as a sizing agent. Japanese paper making allows for the
use of diverse fibers as raw material. The most common is the inner bark of
the Gampi bush and Mitsunami bark [sp]. Other possibilities for raw materials
are hemp, bannana, milkweed and a lot more but I can't think of them now.
In Japanese papermaking the preparation of the fiber is the most important
step of the process. It involves steaming the twigs, peeling and striping the
bark, cooking the bark in lye, and beating it. The actual sheet is made
with a special screen like western papermaking but the sheet forming action
is more complex and supposedly takes years to master.
Japanese paper can be as thin as tracing paper or thick as watercolor paper.
It usually has a grain. The strength to thickness ratio is higher than western
handmade paper because the fibers in Japanese paper are much longer. I have
not experimented with japanese handmade paper but I have played with japanese
machine made paper (machine made using traditional raw material). I can't say
much other than you have to look and experiment a lot because there is a wide
range of quality and characteristics .


I read a superb book on Japanese papermaking a few months ago. If anyone is
interested I can look up the title/author/isbn.

Oh yeah, industrial (everyday)paper is made from wood. The big difference
is the removal of the resins from the celluose fiber. This requires a lot of
chemicals and high temperatures. Also machine made sheets can be essentially
any size, and machine made paper has grain.

Another thing. I have tried some wet folding lately and came up with a method
that works really well:
Sandwich the paper between two paper towels one damp, one dry.
Put this between two planes of wood,
and stand on the thing for a few minutes.
The result is a smooth uniformly moist sheet of paper that will not
warp and that will not crack when you crease it.
I used this to make boxes out of thick watercolor paper and it worked
really well.

---Angelo Trivelli    jt2n@andrew.cmu.edu





From: brad@cs.utexas.edu (blumenthal @ home with the armadillos)
Date: Mon, 7 Jan 91 11:25:10 CST
Subject: Near the end...

Well, I just finished adding about six new members, which brings the total
number of active members of the list to 97.  The bad news is that, unless
someone picks up the ball, the list is going to go away sometime in the next
2-4 weeks -- with very little warning.  I finished my degree last semester,
and I've got a job in Cambridge, England, so I won't be around to maintain
the list.  I've really enjoyed it, and I've met some very nice people and
learned a lot about origami.  Alas, that's the way these things go.

If anyone's interested, the list is relatively easy to maintain.  It
requires very little time (only about an hour or two per month), and
a moderate amount of disk space (at the moment, the archives and postscript
files take up about 6 Meg).  If anyone's interested, let me know.

Finally, if noone has any objections, I'll post the roster of members
and email addresses as my last message to the list from here.

Take care,
brad





Date:         Thu, 03 Jan 91 11:24:48 EST
From: Hsin-Yih Shyu <SHYU%UCONNVM.BITNET@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject:      Asking info about origami on computer uses

Dear Mr. Blumenthal,
    My name is Hsin-Yih Shyu.  I am a Ph.D student majoring in Instructional
Media and Technology at the University of Connecticut.  Over the past two
years, I have conducted research to examine learner control vs. program
control in procedural learning.  The instructional task I selected was the
videodisc "Making an Origami Crane" section from the First National Kidisc.
I used BASIC computer language to program and control the sequencing of the
videodisc instruction.  There was no other information I could get in regarding
teaching an origami figure on a computer-aided instruction.
    Last week I happened to know there was an origami group on the Bitnet
list.  You may imagine how happy I was.  Would you please send me some info
on computer uses to teach origami folds? Thank you very much.
If any question, email me as <shyu@uconnvm>, or call me (203) 486-0614.
My address is University of Connecticut, U-4, 249 Glenbrook Rd., Storrs, CT
06269-2004.  Thanks again.
Sincerely yours,
Hsin-Yih Shyu





Date: Tue, 8 Jan 91 09:07 MET
From: Maarten van Gelder <MAARTEN%RUG.NL@CUNYVM.CUNY.EDU>
Subject: Re to Thomas

Hello Thomas,

I can give you an answer to both your questions.

- Europe -
I was the first Dutch member of this list and I am still reading it.
If you want to contact some people here when you are in Holland you are
welcome.
Our Dutch association is called OSN (Origami Societeit Nederland). We have a
2 monthly magazine 'Orison' and I am one of the members of the editorial staff.
My intro is in the archives but I can send it you if you like.

- The folding medium -
In my opinion each model needs its own kind of material.
For small and easy models I use the industrial Japanese paper.
Our postal service obtains it from the 'Grimm hobby' company in sizes from
3x3 cm (1.2 inch) up to 35x35 cm (14 inch) and printed with all kinds of colors
and patterns. Also the sizes up to 24x24 cm (10 inch) are available in other
structures like rice paper, hand made and so on.
Complex models I only fold with the large sizes. But for very large models this
kind of paper is too thin so I use different kinds of wrapping paper (colored
and brown). I also fold napkins (paper and cloth).
I had like to try other materials too (like real metal etc.).

Maarten van Gelder                         MAARTEN@RC.RUG.NL
Lichtboei 210
9732 JK  Groningen
Holland





Date:    Tue, 8 Jan 1991 12:30:21 PST
From: RLANG@JPLLSI.JPL.NASA.GOV
Subject: purism and paper

I believe the issue of whether to use regular paper or foil paper stems
not from "purity" but from accessibility; one can assume that the average
folder has some conventional origami paper lying around, but may not have
good foil paper or other obscure types.

There is a place for many kinds of paper, and some models are more
appropriate for one than for another. I folded a one-piece ship in a
bottle from celluloid once, which obviously had to be made from a
transparent paper, or you wouldn't have been able to see the ship!

As Thomas has pointed out, the use of thin foil, with its combination of
malleability and thinness, certainly eases the demands on the designer.
So in some sense, a model that doesn't require foil could be considered
more sophisticated than a similar one that does.

As far as "purity" goes, if one wishes to be true to ancient Japanese
tradition, then one should not fold anything more complicated than a
Frog Base and should use cuts with liberal abandon, because if you look
at old Japanese publications, that's exactly what you see. The modern
"purist" ethic is based on elegance, not tradition. The appealing feature
of origami is that you can make such a beautiful thing with so little
raw material. If you can eliminate fancy paper and scissors entirely
from the raw material, then so much the better.

On the other hand, if you are trying to make a beautiful object solely
by folding, then you want to use the best possible paper for the job,
and traditional origami paper is rarely the best.

Robert J. Lang





Date: Sun, 3 Feb 91 17:01 MET
From: "Johannes L. Braams" <JL_Braams%pttrnl.nl@clvm.clarkson.edu>
Subject: New on this list

Hi,

I received your test message, so the address is oke.

Actually, it's not me who is connected to world-wide electronic mail, it's my
husband. My name is Marion de Groot. I learned Origami some years ago and I
joined the Dutch Origami Society last year.

I like all sort of Origami, but I'm most interested in 2-dimensional shapes,
which I can then put on postcards to send them to friends.

Marion de Groot
3 Feb 91.

Reply to: JL_Braams@pttrnl.nl





Date: Fri, 8 Feb 91 13:16:04 EST
From: Stephan Poole <poole@eniac.seas.upenn.edu>
Subject: ftp site

Hello,

Well everything has changed around, and I still am not sure
how to find things with FTP.  I know there is an archive
lurking about somewhere with a lot of good information.

I read Robert Lang's posting about a postscript file that
had to do with the Praying Mantis.  Hey wow!  Where is
this stuff.

Anyone who can help please mail me an answer.  If others are
curious about the same thing, then let me know and I will
post the answer I get to the group so we only have to see it
once.

Thanks and Happy folding.
-Stephan  (poole@eniac.seas.upenn.edu)





Date: Sat, 9 Mar 91 09:55:09 PST
From: V'Ann Cornelius <andataco!vann@ucsd.edu>
Subject: about conventions

Maartin,
Tell me more about the type of 'conventions' you have.
I have been to the New York convention for the Friends of the
Origami Center of America. I have been to professional conventions
like comdex in Las Vegas.

I'm interested in ideas about what activities are available, how
these are decided and arranged. What is the cost to the person coming?
What does a person bring with them?

Have you had conventions for so long that most of the difficulties have been
resolved? Are Holland conventions formal or casual?

Thanks for any comments you may offer.

V'Ann Cornelius, San Diego





Date: Tue, 12 Mar 91 09:20 MET
From: Maarten van Gelder <MAARTEN%RUG.NL@clvm.clarkson.edu>
Subject: ABOUT CONVENTIONS

V'Ann,

Although the scale of our one day conventions changes, the way they are helt is
about the same as in the first years of the OSN.
We meet at about 10.00 am for a closed meeting. When entering you get an
envelope with in it a leaflet with some models to fold including paper. Some
times you get also consumption tickets for drinks and a lunch when you payed for
it in advance. Otherwise you have to pay in cash for your drinks and lunch. The
last thing you get when entering is a numbered ticket for the OriService shop
(see below).
In the morning you can fold, meet other members and have a look at the
exhibition. Not every visiting member takes her/his models to show but I always
do. After the lunch at about 13.30 the meeting room is open for non members.
They may see the exhibition and also buy the leaflet and fold the models (with
help of the members).
The costs for the members depends on the rent of the meeting place and the price
of the lunch: $12.60 to $15.

About the difficulties we had in the past:
>>> As the OSN is a 'vereniging' (association in Dutch) we must have a meeting
of the members each year to vote for the board of directors. In the beginning
this was helt in de morning during the closed session. But 4 years ago we had
this meeting with 400 members and the year after we expected 600. So we split
up the two meetings. The official meeting of the members is now each year
attended by about 50 members.
We also had to split our one convetion a year to regional conventions. At first
3 regions but at this moment each province has its own regional convention once
in two years. As Holland has 12 provinces there are 6 regional conventions a
year.
>>> Apart of these regional conventions we also introduced a weekend meeting
once a year. With this meeting we have one big problem: too many members want
to attend. Last time our magazine arrived with the announcement of the meeting
after one day we had already 70 subscribers and within a week we had to reject
further subscription. We don't know how to get around with this problem.
>>> We had some problems with the locality for the meeting. Some regions
(provinces) couldn't get a modest meeting place for a reasonable price. This is
solved by supporting these groups with extra funds from the OSN so the attending
members still pay that price mentioned above.
>>> I told about the meeting with 400 members. That gave a problem too in our
OriService shop some years before already. Our assoviation has a postal service
to order your paper and books. At the conventions they always take their stuff
with them and open a shop. Because evreyone wants to see and buy things there
the shop was filled with so many people you couldn't do anything else but stand.
So they introduced a regulating system like we have in our butcher shops and the
like. When entering the meeting you get a numbered ticket. When the shop is
opened the servant tells which numbers may enter.

About our weekend convention:
Our weekend meeting once a year is more like the FOCA conventions. They start
Saturday at 11.00 and end Sunday at 16.00. Saturday afternoon and Sunday
workshops are organized on different topics like boxes, top models, flower
arranging, unit origami, presetn wrapping, etc. The costs for this weekend is
about $150 (room and meals included).
Last year I organized the workshop 'OriPuzzle' and this year 'Top models'.

Maarten van Gelder                         MAARTEN@RC.RUG.NL
Lichtboei 210
9732 JK  Groningen
Holland





Date: Sun, 17 Mar 1991 13:50:25 EST
From: TYKOCINSKI@acfcluster.nyu.edu
Subject: unfoldable model


Once again I tried to fold a model in one of my old books, and once again
I failed. The model is called Jackstone , by Jack Skillman, In the book
Origami2 (1971) by Robert Harbins. Can anyone offer some helpful hints
about this model? Are there clearer instructions for it somewhere?
Help!!!!
                        Orit Tykocinski   Tykocinski@nyuacf





Date: Sun, 17 Mar 91 18:56:23 EST
From: "e. morgan" <cs00elm@unccvax.uncc.edu>
Subject: _Unit Origami_


Has anyone read or purchased _Unit Origami_ by
Tomoko Fuse? I have and so far I find it
intriguing. The only problem with unit origami
that I can see is the time it takes to fold all
those little pieces.

Eric Lease Morgan





Date: Mon, 18 Mar 91 10:56:52 MST
From: Sheila Wassmer x3549 <sew@hpfitst1.fc.hp.com>
Subject: re:  _Unit Origami_


Eric Lease Morgan writes:
>
> Has anyone read or purchased _Unit Origami_ by
> Tomoko Fuse? I have and so far I find it
> intriguing. The only problem with unit origami
> that I can see is the time it takes to fold all
> those little pieces.
>
I have and I love it.  I've been fascinated with unit origami ever since
I discovered the instructions for the simplest pattern in a "Hello Kitty"
book (you know, those silly, sappy Japanese "cute" imports).  Actually,
I don't have much trouble with the amount of time it takes to fold the
pieces (certainly no longer than some of the more complicated single
sheet folds), although it seems like a long time because it's so repetitious.
The part I have the hardest time with is putting everything together at
the end.  You just get three pieces together and then two fall apart.

I especially like working with multicolor models and trying to solve the
puzzle of putting it all together without adjacent pieces sharing the
same color (sort of like the old 4 color map puzzles).

If else anyone enjoys this type of paper folding (some purist might
argue whether it can truly be called Origami), I would highly recommend the
book.  Lots of interesting models with numerous basic units.


--
        Regards,


        ______  _               _
       /     / //              //
      /       //              //                        Sheila Wassmer
      -----  /___   ____  o  // ____                 sew@hpfitst1.hp.com
   _______/_/   /  /___/ /  /  /   /                    (303)229-3549
  /______/ /   <__<_____/__/__<___<__





Date: Tue, 19 Mar 91 12:06 SST
From: "Postmasters - Info Sys & Comp Sci, NUS." <CSSNET%NUSDISCS.BITNET@clvm.clarkson.edu>
Subject: Re: Unit Origami

The local bookstores here only carries a few books on Unit Origami in
Japanese. While quite interesting, they are not exactly easy to read -
I get to understand about one out of every five or so words.

While on the subject of unit origami, I wonder if anyone got the book
Origami Boxes (I think... I don't have it here with me at the moment)
also by Tomoko Fuse. I asked about it sometime ago, but didn't receive
any reply. There's this picture of an insert for an octagon box, but
no instructions. Anybody out there knows how to fold this insert? Or
know of any source? Many thanks..


Kiong Peng





Date: Mon, 18 Mar 91 23:42:24 EST
From: "e. morgan" <cs00elm@unccvax.uncc.edu>
Subject: _Origami: New ideas for Paperfolding_


Another book I have recently purchased is _Origami: New Ideas for
Paperfolding_ by Gay Merrill Gross. Although this book is not very
big. (Nor was it very expensive, a mere $10.) I have enjoyed it. It
too has many "practical folds", models that are not as artistic as
"traditional" origami, but it is just as facinating.

Isn't it wonderful what you can do with just a few pieces of paper?

Eric Lease Morgan





Date: Tue, 19 Mar 91 16:40 MET
From: Maarten van Gelder <MAARTEN%RUG.NL@clvm.clarkson.edu>
Subject: Conventions

V'Ann,

I hope my answer to your question about conventions is of some help.
Last week I met Thomas Hull here in Groningen and he told me the structure
of the conventions (regional etc.) was like that in Holland.
So would you please give me the information about your conventions (FOCA,
regional and local) along with a description of the problems you met?
Perhaps it may be of help here in Holland.

Maarten van Gelder                         MAARTEN@RC.RUG.NL
Lichtboei 210
9732 JK  Groningen
Holland





Date: Tue, 19 Mar 1991 18:30:55 -0500
From: Shih Alvin Chia H <a351shih@zero.cdf.utoronto.ca>
Subject: Re:  unfoldable model

> Once again I tried to fold a model in one of my old books, and once again
> I failed. The model is called Jackstone , by Jack Skillman, In the book
> Origami2 (1971) by Robert Harbins. Can anyone offer some helpful hints
> about this model? Are there clearer instructions for it somewhere?
> Help!!!!
>                         Orit Tykocinski   Tykocinski@nyuacf
>
This is a favourite of mine.  I've only done 5 or so ever, and I
haven't done one in over a year, but it's awesome.  It takes me about
1.25 hours to fold one from an 8.5" square piece of paper.

I had problems with it for some time, put it down, and the picked it up
years later.  One must excercise particular care when "pushing" the
model together.  I found it very useful to visualize the kinds of folds
that would be "sensible".  If memory serves, some of the creases must
be reversed during the push.

I hope that helps.  I was actually intending on folding one in a week
or two.  If there's a particular phase that bothers you, mail be before
then and I'll try to see what I do and describe it.  (Since I'm
relatively new to the group, I don't know what conventions are used for
describing folds--I don't have postscript.)

If you get really, really desperate, maybe I can mail a finished one to
you (but you'll have to mail something pretty amazing in return!).

ACS





Date: Tue, 19 Mar 91 21:01:37 -0500 (EST)
From: John Kriens <jk5o+@andrew.cmu.edu>
Subject: Postscript folding instructions.

I remember reading a month (or so) ago about an ftp site having
postscript files for folding a preying mantis and a dollar bill peacock.
 I looked in cs.utexas.edu but the models were no longer there.  Where
have they gotten to?  If they're no longer available by ftp, if someone
has them and would be able to mail them to me, please let me know.

Thanks a lot in advance.

-John Kriens
jk5o@andrew.cmu.edu





Date: Sun, 24 Mar 91 12:06:12 EST
From: Andy Kimmel <AADY@cornella.cit.cornell.edu>
Subject: Re: unfoldable model

In regard to folding the Jackstone, by Jack Skillman:

There are basically two parts of this fold which are relatively
difficult, and hard visualize from the illustrations in Robert
Harbin's book.  The first occurs on p. 128 where the pre-creased
paper is "pushed" together.  It is important to distinguish the
four diamond shapes that radially rise out of the center of the page.
Pay particular attention to the valley folds in the centers of these
diamonds.  Gradually work these creases until you have a figure
that almost looks like the one in the center of page 129.
At this point, turn the paper upside down, and work on the inside,
trying to smooth the page.  This smoothing is not illustrated in Harbin's
book.  At this point you should be able to continue (on p. 129 bottom)
with the rest of the fold.

The second difficult part is the "Push surfaces in either side of centre"
illustrated on p. 130.  All I can say is that this fold seemed quite
unintuitive to me the first time I did it.

Let me know if this information was useful, and where in particular you
are getting stuck.  It will also help if you start with a larger piece
of paper (10" is recommended).

aady@cornella.cit.cornell.edu





Date: Mon, 15 Apr 91 08:08:00
From: Kiss Istvan <h299kis@ella.hu>

                                    14th of April, 1991.

Hi there,

I've no idea, who or what is behind this e-mail address,
so excuse me if the salutation is not appropriate.

I'm living in Hungary and I'd like origami become a
serious hobby of my life.  I'm not an expert, for I've
started it not too long ago and in Hungary origami is not
well known or popular.  (I've been staying in the
Netherlands for some months, I've got this e-mail address
there and I was jealous to see, how many books and
folding paper is available there).

So I'd like to receive information about origami or
related activities, books, etc., I really don't have much
idea, what you can do via e-mail.  I'm new in origami, but
at least at the moment I'm more interested in "practical"
origami, like letter folding, origami boxes, etc.  that
pure aesthetical folding, but it's only a taste, which
might change.

My e-mail address is h299kis@ella.hu, at present we use a
proprietary e-mail system based on IBM PS-s and a
mainframe, but soon we are going to use standard UNIX
systems and mail.

Looking forward for hearing from you,

                                             Istvan Kiss
