Date: Thu, 22 Jun 1995 05:31:11 -1000 From: serack@zso.dec.com (Ken Serack) Message-Id: <3sc2d5$5q9@ninja.zso.dec.com> Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Subject: I need to find a source for mesh for the front of the Sputnik I am building So, you folks that have already built sputniks, what did you use, and where did you get it??? There must be a source for it, and some of the quad foils also use this sort of stuff on their vents. Any suggestions??? Thanks, Ken = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Sat, 24 Jun 1995 07:20:44 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: I need to find a source for mesh for the front of the Sputnik I am building serack@zso.dec.com (Ken Serack) writes: >So, you folks that have already built sputniks, what did you use, and >where did you get it??? Hmmm... Here's a rundown on venting that I've come across: Flexifoil Prospeed vent. Large, square holes, which help the air get in and the sand get out. Medium stiffness. The best stuff but I've never found a source. Large Peel vent. A hexagonal gauze with fine, soft lines. Good airflow but small holes trap sand more than flexifoil prospeed. Sorry, no source for this either. Fine venting from Vlieger Op. A medium soft square venting. I'd like it to be lighter and to have bigget holes, but it's the best I can actualy buy. I have a strong suspicion that the same stuff is available from Hang-em High Screening from Carter's Tents in Reading. A large-holed square vent. I don't like it in a soft kite because it is too stiff but probably good for a Revolution. Andrew -- New to rec.kites? START HERE! | To: www@kfs.org send an email message like this->| Subject: service /-\ () >< () |\/| () >< () /-\ | http://www.kfs.org/kites/welcome/index.html The Kite Fliers Site has just had a new round of updates... = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 10:08:56 -1000 From: serack@zso.dec.com (Ken Serack) Message-Id: <3sn443$1sc@ninja.zso.dec.com> Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Subject: Re: I need to find a source for mesh for the front of the Sputnik I am building andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) wrote: >Fine venting from Vlieger Op. A medium soft square venting. I'd like it > to be lighter and to have bigget holes, but it's the best I can actualy > buy. I have a strong suspicion that the same stuff is available from > Hang-em High So, Andrew, what are the dimensions of this mesh? How many hole per cm??? The stuff I an using on the Sputnik that I am building this week has about 16 holes per inch. I'd like it bigger, but I haven't found anything yet. The mesh that Tom at Hang Em High is 21 per inch. Ken = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 16:34:33 -1000 From: kbiferrl@fast.net Message-Id: <3st3fp$1av@nn.fast.net> Organization: via FASTNET(tm) PA/NJ/DE Internet Services Subject: Re: I need to find a source for mesh for the front of the Sputnik I am building > serack@zso.dec.com (Ken Serack) writes: > andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) wrote: > > > >Fine venting from Vlieger Op. A medium soft square venting. I'd like it > > to be lighter and to have bigget holes, but it's the best I can actualy > > buy. I have a strong suspicion that the same stuff is available from > > Hang-em High > > So, Andrew, what are the dimensions of this mesh? > How many hole per cm??? > > The stuff I an using on the Sputnik that I am building this week has > about 16 holes per inch. I'd like it bigger, but I haven't found > anything yet. The mesh that Tom at Hang Em High is 21 per inch. > l;ight weight mesh 20-21 sq / in polyester, 2.5 oz/yd sq,fire retardant,grey only heavy weight mesh 9 sq/in, vinyl coated polyester, 6.5 oz/ft sq, white, red, blue,black, green,hot orange great stuff call the kid, steve > >>>> ****************************************************************************** e-mail: kbiferrl@fast.net Phone & FAX: (610) 395-3560 Tony (the old man) Ferrel, at Kite Studio, Kite Builder's International and the AKA Retail Store...call Steve for "everything to build a Kite or Banner" ****************************************************************************** = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 29 Jun 1995 01:18:12 -1000 From: andrewh@holly.harvard.edu (Andrew Hawken) Message-Id: <3su25k$833@epsilon.qmw.ac.uk> Organization: Queen Mary & Westfield College, London, UK Subject: Re: I need to find a source for mesh for the front of the Sputnik I am building : serack@zso.dec.com (Ken Serack) writes: : >So, you folks that have already built sputniks, what did you use, and : >where did you get it??? Tradewind kites in Reading sold me vent by the meter which seemed to do the job quite well, but I dont know their source. It was not perfect, a wider mesh would have been better. They can be contacted on (+44) 1734 568848. I have nothing to do with this shop other than as a satisfied customer. For other kites where I have required stiffer vent, I have used embroidery weave stuff. Don't know what it is supposed to be called in the embroidery world, but it does job! However, 5Meters of this stuff would be a lot of money as it only comes in 1 M widths. You could buy 0.5 Meters and make lots of cuts and joins, but I would not advise that somehow. Andy -- ____________________________Andrew Hawken______________________________ "However many ways there may be of being alive, it is certain that there are vastly more ways of being dead" R Dawkins. Home : 01895 420110 QMW : 0171 975 5542 AIIT : 01494 677045 Email : A.Hawken@QMW.AC.UK = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Wed, 5 Jul 1995 06:31:09 -1000 From: serack@zso.dec.com (Ken Serack) Message-Id: <3teene$ghc@ninja.zso.dec.com> Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Subject: Re: I need to find a source for mesh for the front of the Sputnik I am building Well, the mesh I found worked great! We got the Sputnik sewing done Friday, and the standard bridle done on Saturday! Took it to the beach, and except for cutting two secondaries too long, it was great. I fixed the secondaries, and it flew incredibly well in about 5-6mph. This Sputnik has a wingspan of 395cm and an area of 3.68m2. Aspect ration is 4.235. Profile thickness: 17 It is made of .75 Icarex, bridled with 80# spectra primaries and 150# spectra secondaries with a 500# arch bridle. I'll post pictures next week. Sunday, I built a quad-line bridle for it, and wow, what a great kite. This is a small kite (compared to my 10m2 Peel), but I was able to buggy with it in winds that were around 8 mph. In the same low-wind conditions, I switched between the Sputnik and the 10m2 Peel a couple of times and I was able to buggy as far and as fast with either one. The trick is keeping the Sputnik moving fast. This kite generates a LOT of pull when it is moving. I like both kites equally, but they have very different flying characteristics. I still have a LOT to learn about Peel handling. It is a very quick turning kite (It will turn on a wing-tip), so keeping it in the power-zone was very easy, and it stopped and landed very well. Wing-tips often curl in if you are not paying attention, but recovery is very easily (especially with the quad bridle). The next one I build will have a thicker profile so It will have a little more pull at slower kite speeds. Eventually, I plan to build one around 2m2 and one around 5m2. I built the quad bridle so that it is easily removable. I can now fly it either way. Changeover takes about 5 minutes. I haven't buggied with it yet in 2-line mode, but plan to on my next trip to the beach The sputnik is a very impressive kite, and the instructions and computer program are excellent. Nice work Servaas and Nop!!! I did not get to use it with the sand skates this weekend, as I was trying to cut weight from the skates, and surpassed the structural limits of my frame. :-) (i.e. They broke!) The skates broke before I even picked up the kite handles. Well, it is back to the heavier frames until I find a better solution. Ken Serack Sunburned, very tired, and smiling from buggying! = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Thu, 6 Jul 1995 15:02:13 -1000 From: tds@lsci.com (td sirianni) Message-Id: <3ti12l$e38@cedar.mr.net> Organization: LSCI Subject: Re: I need to find a source for mesh for the front of the Sputnik I am building In article <3teene$ghc@ninja.zso.dec.com>, serack@zso.dec.com (Ken Serack) writes: > Well, the mesh I found worked great! > > We got the Sputnik sewing done Friday, and the standard bridle done on > Saturday! Took it to the beach, and except for cutting two secondaries > too long, it was great. I fixed the secondaries, and it flew > incredibly well in about 5-6mph.> . > > Ken Serack > Sunburned, very tired, and smiling from buggying! Ken, Did you find any "gotchas" you can share with us? It *does* sound like fun! Tim -- -- Tim Sirianni Mineapolis, MN tds@lsci.com = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 07:23:08 -1000 From: serack@zso.dec.com (Ken Serack) Message-Id: <3tjqgq$1eu@ninja.zso.dec.com> Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Subject: Re: I need to find a source for mesh for the front of the Sputnik I am building tds@lsci.com (td sirianni) wrote: >Ken, >Did you find any "gotchas" you can share with us? It *does* sound like fun! I am putting together a note about this, but my "real" job gets in the way! :-) Probably next week I'll have more. I'll have pictures next week too. For now, the only "gotchas" I can think of right now: DO NOT COUNT ON ICAREX BEING 41" WIDE!!!!!!! It sometimes is not. Measure it before planning your kite. I planned this on to be 395cm wide so that the depth would easily fit on the 41" Icarex. Well, the Purple was OK, but the blue did not have a straight edge at all, and by the time I got a straight edge, I no longer had an extra cm to play with at the trailing edge. The book is not clear on whether the re-enforcing squares go inside or outside the kite. We put them inside, using double stick tape to hold them in place for sewing. My reasons: less drag, and it looks better. If you ever think you will quad-line the kite, (and I DO reccommend it) sew a re-enforcing line (similar to the re-enforcement cord for the bridle attachments) along the trailing edge before sewing the traling edge together. Then when you decide to quad-line it, you can sew loops throught this line, with knots for larks-heading the quad bridle to. I can switch from quad to dual line in about 5 minutes. I used 80# spectra for the primaries, and 150# spectra for the secondaries, and 500# for the arch. Even my 10m2 Peel only uses 80# spectra, so this seems to be more than enough. When marking the top and bottom surfaces for sewing, we marked the lines where the profile seams were to be sewn, but we also marked lines 7mm from those lines, so, when sewing, you just lay the edge of the profile against this second line, and (if you have a Pfaff) use the edge of the presser foot as a guide, and the seam comes out in the right place. I'll post more info on the quad bridle later. Ken = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Fri, 7 Jul 1995 19:46:05 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: I need to find a source for mesh for the front of the Sputnik I am building serack@zso.dec.com (Ken Serack) writes: >The book is not clear on whether the re-enforcing squares go inside or >outside the kite. We put them inside, using double stick tape to hold >them in place for sewing. My reasons: less drag, and it looks better. Fabric & double sided tape? The way to do it is with rip-stop repair tape (avauilable from a kite retailer near you). *white* (on the inside) shows the least on all colours. I don't sew them (with the rib seam and the bridle, there are enough holes in the skin already), but I do trim off the points of the corners to help prevent them lifting. Andrew -- New to rec.kites? START HERE! | To: www@kfs.org send an email message like this->| Subject: service /-\ () >< () |\/| () >< () /-\ | http://www.kfs.org/kites/welcome/index.html 8m^2 Cross-bridled Icarex/Spectra Sputnik 4 for sale. US$350. See my web... = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Mon, 10 Jul 1995 06:04:26 -1000 From: serack@zso.dec.com (Ken Serack) Message-Id: <3trj07$do0@ninja.zso.dec.com> Organization: Digital Equipment Corporation Subject: Re: I need to find a source for mesh for the front of the Sputnik I am building andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) wrote: >Fabric & double sided tape? The way to do it is with rip-stop repair >tape (avauilable from a kite retailer near you). *white* (on the inside) >shows the least on all colours. I don't sew them (with the rib seam and the >bridle, there are enough holes in the skin already), but I do trim >off the points of the corners to help prevent them lifting. I guess I assumed that you would need to sew them. Do the Peels use any sort of re-enforcing square like this?? I'll try it with just the tape. Thanks, Ken = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Date: Tue, 11 Jul 1995 12:00:50 -1000 From: andrew@tug.com (Andrew Beattie) Message-Id: Organization: /usr/lib/news/organisation Subject: Re: I need to find a source for mesh for the front of the Sputnik I am building serack@zso.dec.com (Ken Serack) writes: >I guess I assumed that you would need to sew them. Do the Peels use >any sort of re-enforcing square like this?? Nope. The strain goes to the rib-line. Without the square, a small hole may wear near the line, but it is of little consequence. The only time when they rip is when you pull had on *one* bridle (caused by some forms of tangling). In this curcumstance, *something* is going to go anyway, and the re-inforced skin may *still* be the weakest point (I don't know >From experience whether this is the case yet). I view it as not strictly necessary, but one of the nice touches to include when you are building a kite yourself. I'll be keeping an eye on this - and will post about it if I change my mind... Andrew -- New to rec.kites? START HERE! | To: www@kfs.org send an email message like this->| Subject: service /-\ () >< () |\/| () >< () /-\ | http://www.kfs.org/kites/welcome/index.html 8m^2 Cross-bridled Icarex/Spectra Sputnik 4 for sale. US$350. See my web... = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =