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From: schweda@iastate.edu (Christopher Schweda)
Subject: Re: Interactive Fiction as Literature
Message-ID: <schweda.733325189@vincent1.iastate.edu>
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Organization: Iowa State University, Ames IA
References: <1993Mar26.162906.14760@ultb.isc.rit.edu> <1993Mar27.113721.24786@mnemosyne.cs.du.edu> <schweda.733251021@vincent1.iastate.edu> <C4L5Bq.Gp6@chinet.chi.il.us>
Date: Sun, 28 Mar 1993 13:26:29 GMT
Lines: 61

In <C4L5Bq.Gp6@chinet.chi.il.us> jorn@chinet.chi.il.us (Jorn Barger) writes:

>Chris Schweda writes:
>>[Mark Woodward writes:]
>>>  [...]  My first impression was that as a medium it had real
>>>promise, but it seems hard to break the 'game' mode.
>>
>>At first, this was my impression, too. 
>>But I read Robert Graves's White Goddess and changed my mind.

>Hmmmm... a videogame about a culture centered around poetic values, co-opted
>by violent patriarchy? (Tell me more! ;^)

>>I was drawn to IF several years ago
>>after reading Joseph Campbell's _Hero With A Thousand Faces_; I realized
>>quite quickly that Infocom's fantasy/sorcery games possess many of the same
>>mythological elememts of which Campbell frequently wrote about -- the idea
>>of the lone hero beginning a quest, deciding whether or not to continue
>>the quest, receiving help, etc. etc. [...] would a literate IF game be almost
>>unplayable if its aim were more highbrow and more (strictly speaking)
>>"literate?"

>So long as the puzzles are all 'materialistic' (arrange physical items in
>a certain way), the mythology will necessarily be painted on...  But if
>you can add enough psychological simulation that *solving the puzzles*
>demands 'simulated virtue'... then I think you begin to tap deeper emotional
>responses.

>Courage, humility, honesty, self-restraint, justice, charity, optimism...

>Some role-playing games give points for virtuous acts, don't they?

But, John, this seems to be the catch: the idea of "points" for a "game."
This is exactly, I think, what the previous poster was griping about when
he said that IF seemed to smack a little too strongly of the "game" aspect.
I guess the question is: how to create an authentic world, create a
"simulated virtue," yet steer clear of a strictly clever, point-oriented
quest. Obviously, this seems less like an IF adventure than it does a
more normal, literate epic.

I mean, as Telemachas began his quest for his father, he wasn't in search
of "points." So I wonder if the goal in IF was less point-oriented and more
virtue oriented -- would this seem more "literary?"

In every IF game I've played, the issue of whether or not the quest has
succeeded is always based upon points. "Where's the last two points I
need to finished this adventure?" "Did you stick the torch in the trophy
case?" "Oh yeah. Okay. Now I'm finished." This is fun, sure -- but where's
the virtue (real or simulated) here?


Chris Schweda
--




>jorn@chinet.chi.il.us



