From: kanekalsgk@my-deja.com
Newsgroups: rec.music.indian.classical
Subject: Re: Tanpura or Tambora!!
Date: Sun, 12 Nov 2000 21:09:01 GMT
Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy.
Message-ID: <8un0ta$dpv$1@nnrp1.deja.com>
References: <8uhfb7$psb$1@hpcvnews.cv.hp.com> <8uid9d219ga@news2.newsguy.com> <3A0ED204.97821CAC@chandrakantha.com>

In article <3A0ED204.97821CAC@chandrakantha.com>,
  david@chandrakantha.com wrote:
> If one looks at raditional Indian iconography one finds that it is
> veryrare to find instruments where the resonator fuses with the neck
> (e.g.sitar, tanpura, saraswathi veena).  Tradional Indian stringed
> instruments seem to be based upon the principle of the stick zither
>(e.g.rudra vina).  Even instruments like the saraswathi vina have no
> iconographic representation until well after the muslim invasions.  I
> take this to be evidence in favour of the middle eastern origin of the
> instrument.  (This will no doubt provoke much protest, but I am sorry,
> that is the way the evidence stands).
> Yours truly
> David Courtney

  Behold the persian monkey begins its grotesque dance now joined by
  companion pale-faced self-styled experts holding forth ...

  I shall speak about iconography later but let us begin by
  paraphrasing a "real' expert - B.C. Deva :
  After describing the folk instruments "tuntune" and "ektar" he has
  this to say
             "Out of these folk instruments has developed the tamboora,
  a concert instrument, the indispensable drone. It is essentially made
  of a large sound box (pumpkin or wood) ....." etc [from Indian Music
  by B. C. Deva ,pp 133]

  Let us now pick up a standard sanskrit dictionary - the students dict.
  by V.S. Apte will do nicely - ( perhaps the persian apologists need
  to be reminded that sanskrit existed prior to the arab/persian hordes)
  Here are some words that are relevant :
   tumbaha   -   a kind of gourd
   tumbaraha -   name of a gandharva , a kind of musical instrument
   tumba     -   a kind of a long gourd

  It should be clear from the above as to the origin of the name
  tamboora. Sorry it aint got nuthin to do with arab/persian monkeys.

  Now the english word tambour was mentioned... Let's go to the
  venerable  OED - we find :
    tambour - drum, circular embroidered material ...
  Right on !

  So onwards ...lets take a genereal look at this arab/persian thing :
  From An Advanced history of India by of course Majumdar et al., pp267,

  " The arab conquets of sind did not produce any far-reaching
   political effect and has been described by mr. Stanley lane-Poole
   as 'an episode of in the history of India and of Islam, a truimph
   without results' [ How one wished we had kicked thier asses right at
   the start - the period being referred to by MRD here]. But it is
   signifcant from a cultural poiint of view. Besides helping exchange
   of ideas it facilitated the dissemination of the SEEDS OF INDIAN
   CULTURE IN FOREIGN LANDS [emphasis mine]. The Arabs acquired from the
   hindus some new knowledge in Indian Religion, Philosophy, Medicine,
   Mathematics, Astronomy and Folklore and carried it to not only their
   own land but also to europe.[perhaps this explains why europeans
   refer to hindu achievements as arab - that was their source; example
   arabic numerals] we know definitely from Masudi and Ibn hauqal that
   arab settlers lived side by side their hindu  fellow citizens for
   many years on terms of amity and peace, and Amir Khusrav mentions
   that the arab astronomer Abu Ma'shar came to Benares and studied
   astronomy there for ten years"

   I write this at length since India's influence on Persia and Arabia
   are scarcely ever mentioned on this forum. One wonders if the arabs
   took away astronomical knowledge ...why not music ? And another
   puzzle - all these persian/arab apologists - if they like the a/p
   music so much why the hell are they into indian music ?
   cheers,
   Shri





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