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To: daly@axiom-developer.org
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] boottocl
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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > there exist two implementations of boottran::boottocl:
| >   1. one in interp/util.lisp,
| >   2. and on in boot/ptyout.boot.
| > 
| > Which one is the real boottocl compiled into the Boot translator?
| 
| at one time the two parsers handled differently languages,
| the 'old' boot language and the 'new' boot language. the
| boot parser was written in the old boot language and the
| rest of the system was coded in the new boot language.
| the goal was to unify the two language.

OK; as I'm trying to find my way through the system, is there a place
where I could find differences of the two languaes?

| i don't remember whether we fully resolved that issue.
| the only way to guarantee they are the same is to verify
| that they ultimately call the same functions. or you can
| translate each of the boot files with both functions and
| see if the resulting lisp code is equal.

I'll try the second one.  However, for the moment, one of them seems
to put the result on the translation in the "int/" directory when I
really want it somewhere else.  It is not obvious from looking at the
code, how the the results end up in the "int/" directory.

| one of the parsers used to live in the boottran package
| and the other lived in the boot package. there is a subtle
| issue of which macros are loaded into each image which
| affects the ultimate expansion of the code.

interesting.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| Plus if you apt-get GCL you might get a version from stable,
| unstable, or testing. Yet GCL-2.6.8pre only works on some
| systems and GCL-2.6.8pre2 only works on others and there is
| no build-time way to distinguish them. Nor is there a tag
| so you can't pull from the CVS. I'm waiting to see how this
| issue is handled in build-improvements.

The build-improvements branch has only one GCL-2.6.8pre (the latest,
i.e. what you call GCL-2.6.8pre2).  Consequently, I'll investigate and
solve the issue if and when I have access to platforms where there are
issues. 

-- Gaby



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
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On 9/30/06, Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:

> So this confirms that 'svk smerge' does not re-create the repository
> in the same compact form in which it exists on SourceForge. :-(
>

Another experiment you can try:  subversion 1.4 now ships with a
mirroring tool called 'svnsync'.  Try using 'svnsync push' to
replicate one repository to another, and see the results.

I somehow got cc:'d on these conversations, and I feel like a bit of
an interloper... but it's hard not to overhear the debate.  Here are
my two cents.

* Nearly every opensource project has dependencies on other projects.
That's normal.  it is *not* the norm to grab the dependencies and
stuff privately patched versions into your source repository.  The
norm is have a build system which carefully checks for the correct
versions of the dependencies, and then put the burden of making the
build 'just work' on those people who actually are in charge of
creating distributions.  Typically there are individuals charged with
making sure that each OS distribution (redhat, debian, ubuntu,
freebsd, fink, windows, etc) has a healthy package available with
dependencies described correctly, and/or that the apt/yum/whatever
system is using the correct versions of the dependencies.  What you
guys are doing just doesn't scale;  you need to play nicely with the
rest of the world, rather than try to put yourself in a bubble.  If
every project did what you guys are doing, a user might end up with 15
different private versions of GCL on their system, instead of 2
versions managed by the OS and shared by 15 products.

(Yes, subversion's tarball includes apr and neon, but that's just
*one* particular package we distribute.  If you install subversion via
a system like apt, things just magically work.  And if you check out
svn's source tree from version control, you don't get anything but
subversion's source code.)

* Saying 'svn isn't ready for primetime' is mildly amusing to me.  I'm
one of subversion's original designers, and the system has been
evolving for 6 years now.  Apache, GCC, KDE, Gnome, Samba, and nearly
every project started within the last 3 years uses it.  Sourceforge
and Google offer it to the public.  There are 6+ books written on it.
 It's the 'new standard'.   If it were as unusable as your personal
experiences, it never would have taken off.

 I'm sure, though, that the negative experiences reported about svn
aren't amusing to those experiencing them.  But I assure you that
they're indicative of something configured incorrectly in specific
environments.  Those experiences aren't the norm, they're some weird
edge-case.  In other words, occam's razor says, "it's not that the
public is crazy for widely adopting a buggy system, rather, there's
just something buggy about your particular setups".  :-)  My
recommendation is that you guys report your problems to the
users@subversion.tigris.org list (which has thousands of subscribers)
to help de-bug whatever gremlins are in your setup.  Quietly hating
subversion isn't a useful strategy.



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] problems with draw()
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Hello *,

I've compiled axiom--main--1--patch-50 on a current Gentoo box, and it 
works. However, when I say, for example,
draw(sin(x),x=0..10)
I get a window with the title
sin x
centered at the top, axes, and no curve. In the axion session I get
Warning:  could not get the 6x10 font for unitFont

I still have axiom--main--1--patch-49 on the same box. In it, the sine 
curve appears; in the axiom session, I get the same warning about the 
font.

In both -49 and -50, when I click inside the graphics window, I get the 
control panel. When I click the Quit button, nothing happens - the window 
does not disappear. If I click it the second time, I get the error 
message:

*** glibc detected *** 
/home/grozin/axiom--main--1--patch-50/mnt/linux/lib/viewman: free(): 
invalid pointer: 0x0805209c ***

followed by a backtrace (the graphics window disappears). The same happens 
if I close the graphics window by clicking the cross at the top right 
corner of the window border to close the graphics window. This happens 
with both patch-49 and patch-50.

I have the newest xorg-7.1 X server. I think graphics worked with old 
xorg-6.* X servers, but I am not sure about exact versions.

Any ideas?

Andrey



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Typo in bookvol5 : clearCmdparts
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Hello,


@@ -4333,7 +4332,7 @@
                  (spadlet plist (getalist (caar fenv) v))
                  (cond
                   (plist 
-                   (|clearCmdparts| (cons '|propert| (cons v nil)))
+                   (|clearCmdParts| (cons '|propert| (cons v nil)))


To trigger this error start AXIOMsys and issue the following commands:

-- beware there is another bug
-- you can not import an "empty" frame
-- (always the same question
-- "do you really want to import everything...")
-- so you need to add something to the history
-- (here a:=1/2)
a:=1/2
)frame new test
)frame import initial

 >> System error:
  |clearCmdparts| is invalid as a function.


Greg




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Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
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Ben,

On October 1, 2006 9:26 AM you wrote:
>=20
> On 9/30/06, Bill Page wrote:
>=20
> > So this confirms that 'svk smerge' does not re-create the
> > repository in the same compact form in which it exists on
> > SourceForge. :-(
> >
>=20
> Another experiment you can try:  subversion 1.4 now ships with a
> mirroring tool called 'svnsync'.

Cool. I had not heard of this yet but I did install 1.4.

> Try using 'svnsync push' to replicate one repository to another,
> and see the results.
>=20

Following the recipe at:

http://journal.paul.querna.org/articles/2006/09/14/using-svnsync

I did the following:

 $ svnsync init file:///home/page/axiom_sync
 $ svnadmin create /home/page/axiom_sync
 $ echo '#!/bin/sh' > /home/page/hooks/pre-revprop-change
 $ chmod 755 /home/page/hooks/pre-revprop-change
 $ svnsync init file:///home/page/axiom_sync
https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom
 Copied properties for revision 0.

But the 'svnsync sync' command says:

 $ svnsync --non-interactive sync file:///home/page/axiom_sync

 svnsync: REPORT request failed on
'https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom'
 svnsync: The requested report is unknown.

The same result was reported here:

http://www.svnforum.org/2017/viewtopic.php?p=3D5442&sid=3D36b51f8b03e12de=
a978935
37886b105b

(no reply yet)

Do you have any ideas about the cause?

> I somehow got cc:'d on these conversations, and I feel like a bit
> of an interloper... but it's hard not to overhear the debate.
> Here are my two cents.
> ...

Not at all. Your comments are very much appreciated. Thanks.

My "negative experience" so far with subversion is just anecdotal.
Obviously I cannot speak for Tim Daly (whose experience so far has
apparently been considerably worse than mine) but I have no doubt
that using subversion with the Axiom project is a viable. To a
first time user like me who has previous experience with a tool
like darcs, subversion seems overly complicated, especially when
SVK is layered on top. I had the same negative reaction to Arch.
I want something that I can pickup, install, and start using
effectively in a few hours and mostly be invisible after that.
CVS, Arch and Subversion are not like that. Darcs is like that.
Mercurial might be like that... Oh well.

With respect to Google Code, I do miss having access to what seem
to be necessary tools such as svnadmin, but I can understand the
reason for trying to keep things as simple as possible.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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On Sun, 1 Oct 2006, Bill Page wrote:

| that using subversion with the Axiom project is a viable. To a
| first time user like me who has previous experience with a tool
| like darcs, subversion seems overly complicated, especially when
| SVK is layered on top.

Hmm, I find SVK an excellent interface to SVN -- it takes care of many
details I don't necessary want to know about.

-- Gaby



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On October 1, 2006 1:39 PM Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 1 Oct 2006, Bill Page wrote:
> 
> | that using subversion with the Axiom project is a viable. To a
> | first time user like me who has previous experience with a tool
> | like darcs, subversion seems overly complicated, especially when
> | SVK is layered on top.
> 
> Hmm, I find SVK an excellent interface to SVN -- it takes care of
> many details I don't necessary want to know about.
> 

Yes. If you have to use subversion, then I agree that the SVK
interface is easier to use and I do recommend it. Apparently there
are some very good GUI's as well (eg. TortoiseSVN). But I still
think that SVN+SVK ends up being both large and complex compared
to the alternatives.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Earlier I wrote:

> 
> But the 'svnsync sync' command says:
> 
>  $ svnsync --non-interactive sync file:///home/page/axiom_sync
> 
>  svnsync: REPORT request failed on
> 'https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom'
>  svnsync: The requested report is unknown.
> ...

Ok, the following worked, starting with a local backup copy of the
repository that was rsync'd from SourceForge.

$ svnadmin create /home/page/axiom_sync2
$ echo '#!/bin/sh' > /home/page/axiom_sync2/hooks/pre-revprop-change
$ chmod 755 /home/page/axiom_sync2/hooks/pre-revprop-change
$ svnsync init file:///home/page/axiom_sync2 file:///home/page/test0
$ svnsync --non-interactive sync file:///home/page/axiom_sync2
...
Committed revision 165.
Copied properties for revision 165.
$ du -s axiom_sync2
156792  axiom_sync2

-------

And it's the same size. Great!

Now, how do I use this at Google Code?

Regards,
Bill Page.





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To: <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] boottocl
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 2006 16:38:31 -0400
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On September 30, 2006 10:36 PM Gaby wrote:
> ... 
> Assume I have an issue with how boottocl works, which version am
> I supposed to modify?  I'm talking of the system as it currently
> is -- not how it could theoretically be.
> 

If you were planning to change anything significant in Boot
I would suggest that you plan on *first* modifying the build
so that the bootsys step with the old compiler is not longer
necessary, i.e. start with the new Boot in interp. Then there
will only be one  version to maintain and the build process
will be (slightly) faster.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

| On September 30, 2006 10:36 PM Gaby wrote:
| > ... 
| > Assume I have an issue with how boottocl works, which version am
| > I supposed to modify?  I'm talking of the system as it currently
| > is -- not how it could theoretically be.
| > 
| 
| If you were planning to change anything significant in Boot
| I would suggest that you plan on *first* modifying the build
| so that the bootsys step with the old compiler is not longer
| necessary, i.e. start with the new Boot in interp. Then there
| will only be one  version to maintain and the build process
| will be (slightly) faster.

Everybody keeps talking about "old" and "new" boot compiler, without
telling me which is which....

-- Gaby



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Tim --

  Where are the source files for the "old" boot compiler located, and
where are the source files for the "new". 

I know you said "new" is meaningless, but apparently we have may have
at least two boot compiler, one "old, and one "new".  Which is which?

-- Gaby



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>   Where are the source files for the "old" boot compiler located, and
> where are the source files for the "new". 
> 
> I know you said "new" is meaningless, but apparently we have may have
> at least two boot compiler, one "old, and one "new".  Which is which?

you believe i know the answer to this question.
unfortunately i don't. but lets see what there is to find:

in boot/ptyout.boot there is a function in the package BOOTTRAN
called BOOTTOCL.

ptyout/bootran::boottocl
 -> boottocllines
  -> shoeClLines
   -> shoeFileTrees
    -> shoeTransformStream
     -> shoeTransformString
      -> showTransform
       -> showTreeConstruct
        -> showPileInsert
         -> btscan2/showLineToks
          -> btscan2/shoeToken



in util.lisp there is a function in the package BOOTRAN 
called BOOTTOCL.


util/bootran::boottocl
 -> boot::boot
  -> bootlex/boot::PARSE-Expression
   -> new2oldlisp
    -> postpar/postTransform
     -> new2OldTran
      -> newConstruct
       -> construct




i have two reasons to believe that the ptyout version of boot which
lives in the src/boot directory is the latest version. 

first, bill burge loved puns and i remember him explaining to me
that the latest version of boot was much better and more comfortable,
thus he was changing over to calling it 'shoe'. this 'shoe' shows up
in the src/boot/ptyout version.

second, the old boot parser language shared a lot in common with
the compiler. the new boot parser was written after the compiler.
the interp version in util uses things like new2OldTran because
we needed to do translations from the new boot language back to
the old boot language for compatibility.

thus it seems there are 2 boot languages implemented (but not defined).
my belief (but i don't remember) is that the src/boot directory came 
into being as part of the process of switching to the new boot/shoe
language.

you'll notice that the makefile in the src/boot directory explicitly
translates using the BOOTSYS image which contains the 'shoe' parser.
the makefile in the src/interp directory explicitly translates using
the DEPSYS image which only contains interpreted lisp files from
the interp directory and is NOT the same as the boot/shoe version.

rather than referring to them both as boot perhaps we should call
the one in the src/boot directory 'shoe', following bill's convention.

t




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Thanks!

-- Gaby



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> * Saying 'svn isn't ready for primetime' is mildly amusing to me.  I'm
> one of subversion's original designers, and the system has been
> evolving for 6 years now.  Apache, GCC, KDE, Gnome, Samba, and nearly
> every project started within the last 3 years uses it.  Sourceforge
> and Google offer it to the public.  There are 6+ books written on it.
>  It's the 'new standard'.   If it were as unusable as your personal
> experiences, it never would have taken off.

moments ago:

svn commit 
....................................................
svn: MERGE request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/branches/daly'
svn: MERGE of '/svnroot/magnus/branches/daly': 500 Internal Server Error (https://svn.sourceforge.net)


Third failure of this type in 3 days. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.

You may be amused but I'm not. I hate redoing work. 
Especially when the WHOLE POINT of a code archive is to preserve work.

Perhaps sourceforge is badly configured or I just can't spell 'commit'.

And why don't I get enough information to actually debug why it failed?

Anyway, I'm off to preserve my changes, do a partially failing checkout 
followed by several updates to recover and get all the data, 
redo my changes, commit and pray.


Total number of ARCH commit failures for any reason over the past 3 years: 0
Total number of CVS  commit failures for any reason over the past 3 years: 0

>  I'm sure, though, that the negative experiences reported about svn
> aren't amusing to those experiencing them.  But I assure you that
> they're indicative of something configured incorrectly in specific
> environments.  Those experiences aren't the norm, they're some weird
> edge-case.  In other words, occam's razor says, "it's not that the
> public is crazy for widely adopting a buggy system, rather, there's
> just something buggy about your particular setups".  :-)  My
> recommendation is that you guys report your problems to the
> users@subversion.tigris.org list (which has thousands of subscribers)
> to help de-bug whatever gremlins are in your setup.  Quietly hating
> subversion isn't a useful strategy.

Vocally hating subversion isn't useful either :-)
I've copied the mailing list. 
Maybe they can fix sourceforge.


Tim, the loser who can't commit, Daly



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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

| On September 30, 2006 10:36 PM Gaby wrote:
| > ... 
| > Assume I have an issue with how boottocl works, which version am
| > I supposed to modify?  I'm talking of the system as it currently
| > is -- not how it could theoretically be.
| > 
| 
| If you were planning to change anything significant in Boot
| I would suggest that you plan on *first* modifying the build
| so that the bootsys step with the old compiler is not longer
| necessary, i.e. start with the new Boot in interp. Then there
| will only be one  version to maintain and the build process
| will be (slightly) faster.

Based on what Tim said, I don't think I'm going to gain much from
elimintating "old" boot at the moment.  The build time, as I see it, is
dominated by building the algebras.  And each algebra file seems to me
to take forever to compile.  Making compilation faster is going to
speed up the built process.

-- Gaby



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From: CY <smustudent1@yahoo.com>
To: axiom-developer@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 02:15:33 -0400
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On Sunday 01 October 2006 21:42, root wrote:

> thus it seems there are 2 boot languages implemented (but not defined).
> my belief (but i don't remember) is that the src/boot directory came
> into being as part of the process of switching to the new boot/shoe
> language.

Yipe.  This makes the cmucl port all the more interesting, in that it doesn't 
have a boot directory.  I wonder how he pulled this off?  Was some of the 
boot dir logic merged in?

> you'll notice that the makefile in the src/boot directory explicitly
> translates using the BOOTSYS image which contains the 'shoe' parser.
> the makefile in the src/interp directory explicitly translates using
> the DEPSYS image which only contains interpreted lisp files from
> the interp directory and is NOT the same as the boot/shoe version.

Scary.

> rather than referring to them both as boot perhaps we should call
> the one in the src/boot directory 'shoe', following bill's convention.

I suppose I should know better than to ask, but since the eventual goal is to 
move the interp to Lisp anyway would a viable alternative be to "decode via 
rewrite?"  I'm rather intimidated by the idea of trying to understand a set 
of files written in either of two versions of an unspecified language - 
mightn't it be more efficient to understand what they were trying to/did 
achieve (without necessarily following all of the subtle details) and then 
doing that using more "modern" coding conventions and documenting how it is 
being done this time?  We might lose some optimizations initially but at 
least we would have clean, documented, modern code to work with.

When I took a run at getting Axiom going on sbcl, I was more or less able to 
get the boot dir code working - at least, boottocl ran.  But when I tried to 
get the cmucl port going, I seemed to run head on into some of the "Axiom 
wasn't designed with Lisp packages in mind" phenomena.  I was reading the 
Davenport high level overview of the Axiom system this weekend, and I can't 
help thinking that maybe the way to go is to identify these key "top level" 
features and think about how they might be implemented today.  For example 
(and this might be crazy, it's just a thought) wouldn't it be possible to use 
packages and the use/import/shadow concepts to handle some issues related to 
things like subdomains?  Have the SPAD language create a new package when a 
new subdomain is created, :use the API from the parent domain, :export the 
key functionality of the new domain, and if some more efficient algorithm 
exists for something implemented more generally in the parent domain :shadow 
the implementation from the parent domain and define a new, optimized 
implementation?

I'm afraid if we focus too hard on maintaining/duplicating exactly what the 
original Axiom code is doing, we're going to weave ourselves a very tangled 
web indeed.  Boot, shoe, and spad ALL lack a formal definition, and as such 
we are more or less in the position of deducing the language from the code.  
Eeek.  Shouldn't we be specifying what the language SHOULD be, and then 
re-merging the code into the new framework?

I could be wrong of course, but at the moment poor Tim seems to be in the 
position of being the keystone and most of the arch as well.  He's one of a 
VERY few people with a hope of decoding this as is, especially issues like 
optimization.  Is there any way the rest of us could do something that would 
make decoding the whole of the maze unnecessary?

CY



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my console log.

svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/magnus/branches/daly magnus

.... checkout out a bunch of files

svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

cd magnus
svn update

.... checkout out a bunch of files

svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

svn update

.... checkout out a bunch of files

svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

svn update

.... checkout out a bunch of files

svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

svn update

.... checkout out a bunch of files

svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

svn update

.... checkout out a bunch of files

svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

svn update

.... checkout out a bunch of files

svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

svn update

.... checkout out a bunch of files

svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

svn update

.... checkout out a bunch of files

svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

svn update

.... checkout out a bunch of files

svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

svn update

.... checkout out a bunch of files

svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

svn update

.... checkout out a bunch of files

svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

svn update

.... checkout out a bunch of files

Update to revision 184

cd ..
(redo all of my changes, adding directory 'version6')
svn add version6
svn commit -m"version 6"
....................................................
.....[snip].....
....................................................
svn: MERGE request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/branches/daly'
svn: MERGE of '/svnroot/magnus/branches/daly': 500 Internal Server Error (https://svn.sourceforge.net)


Fourth failure of this type in 4 days (it's after midnight). 
So I wasted another 2 hours. And I get to waste 2 more.



If I only had a problem with subversion on the magnus project 
I could figure it's not a big problem.

But it also fails sometimes on the Axiom project.
But that's also hosted on sourceforge so maybe it's just sourceforge.

But I also use subversion for work (not sourceforge) and it
occasionally fails.  Oh, and svn cleanup is pointless. It never clears
locks. Never.  The only effective solution is to rm -rf, checkout,
redo the work, commit and pray.

Sometimes it fails, sometimes it doesn't. Mostly luck.
Today isn't my lucky day.

Subversion should 'just work'. 
But it doesn't.

Tim, 'it should just work', Daly




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CY <smustudent1@yahoo.com> writes:

[...]

| > you'll notice that the makefile in the src/boot directory explicitly
| > translates using the BOOTSYS image which contains the 'shoe' parser.
| > the makefile in the src/interp directory explicitly translates using
| > the DEPSYS image which only contains interpreted lisp files from
| > the interp directory and is NOT the same as the boot/shoe version.
| 
| Scary.

:-)

| > rather than referring to them both as boot perhaps we should call
| > the one in the src/boot directory 'shoe', following bill's convention.
| 
| I suppose I should know better than to ask, but since the eventual goal is to 
| move the interp to Lisp anyway would a viable alternative be to "decode via 
| rewrite?" 

The more I read the interpreter code, the more I become convinced that 
Boot should stay.  It simplifies many lots of logic; the benefits of
removing it does not seem to me to outweight the cost and the result.

[...]

|                                                                For example 
| (and this might be crazy, it's just a thought) wouldn't it be possible to use 
| packages and the use/import/shadow concepts to handle some issues related to 
| things like subdomains? 

Funny you should mention that.  I was starring at the i-*.boot files
and was wondering why on the earth all knowledge had to be "hardcoded"
into the interpret instead of being abstracted into a library...

[...]

| Eeek.  Shouldn't we be specifying what the language SHOULD be, and then 
| re-merging the code into the new framework?

yes, but we need data, i.e. what we want the language to achieve; for
the moment, the existing code provide such data.  I suspect now, we
know what we would like to improve, what did not work, and what is
simply broken idea.

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| Sometimes it fails, sometimes it doesn't. Mostly luck.
| Today isn't my lucky day.

I think you can 

  (1) classify SF/SVN as broken;
  (2) suffer the pain of initial checkout with SVK, and enjoy the rest
      seamlessly;
  (3) posit there is something between you and SVN.

-- Gaby



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From: "Weiss, Juergen" <weiss@uni-mainz.de>
To: "Gabriel Dos Reis" <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>,
	"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
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Actually compiling stuff is extremely fast ;-) -- compared to 1991 or so
on a sun sparc ipc with 8 or 32 MBytes of memory. There were some=20
functions (not files) which took hours to compile. And in the meantime
not only the hardware has evolved, but some data structures in the SPAD
compiler=20
changed from alists to hashes.

Besides -- compile times on gcl are longer than on other lisp platforms,
due the generation of c code and the gcc step. The easy portabily of
gcl has a price.

Regards

Juergen Weiss

Juergen Weiss	  | Universitaet Mainz, Zentrum fuer Datenverarbeitung,
weiss@uni-mainz.de| 55099 Mainz, Tel: +49(6131)39-26361, FAX:
+49(6131)39-26407
=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: axiom-developer-bounces+weiss=3Duni-mainz.de@nongnu.org=20
> [mailto:axiom-developer-bounces+weiss=3Duni-mainz.de@nongnu.org]
>  On Behalf Of Gabriel Dos Reis
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 7:38 AM
> To: Bill Page
> Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] boottocl
>=20
> Based on what Tim said, I don't think I'm going to gain much from
> elimintating "old" boot at the moment.  The build time, as I=20
> see it, is
> dominated by building the algebras.  And each algebra file seems to me
> to take forever to compile.  Making compilation faster is going to
> speed up the built process.
>=20
> -- Gaby
>=20
>=20



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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
To: <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] boottocl
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 08:49:43 -0400
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> | On September 30, 2006 10:36 PM Gaby wrote:
> | > ... 
> | > Assume I have an issue with how boottocl works, which version
> | > am I supposed to modify?  I'm talking of the system as it
> | > currently is -- not how it could theoretically be.
> | > 
> | 
> "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:
> | If you were planning to change anything significant in Boot
> | I would suggest that you plan on *first* modifying the build
> | so that the bootsys step with the old compiler is not longer
> | necessary, i.e. start with the new Boot in interp. Then there
> | will only be one  version to maintain and the build process
> | will be (slightly) faster.
> 

On October 1, 2006 9:43 PM Tim Daly wrote:
> 
> in boot/ptyout.boot there is a function in the package BOOTTRAN
> called BOOTTOCL.
> 
> ptyout/bootran::boottocl
>  -> boottocllines
>   -> shoeClLines
> ...
> in util.lisp [interp/util.lisp]there is a function in the
> package BOOTRAN called BOOTTOCL.
> 
> util/bootran::boottocl
>  -> boot::boot
>   -> bootlex/boot::PARSE-Expression
>    -> new2oldlisp
> ... 
> first, bill burge loved puns and i remember him explaining to
> me that the latest version of boot was much better and more
> comfortable, thus he was changing over to calling it 'shoe'. this
> 'shoe' shows up in the src/boot/ptyout version.
> ...
> thus it seems there are 2 boot languages implemented (but not 
> defined). my belief (but i don't remember) is that the src/boot
> directory came into being as part of the process of switching to
> the new boot/shoe language.
> 
> you'll notice that the makefile in the src/boot directory explicitly
> translates using the BOOTSYS image which contains the 'shoe' parser.
> the makefile in the src/interp directory explicitly translates using
> the DEPSYS image which only contains interpreted lisp files from
> the interp directory and is NOT the same as the boot/shoe version.
> 
> rather than referring to them both as boot perhaps we should
> call the one in the src/boot directory 'shoe', following bill's
> convention.
> 

Thank you Tim!

On October 2, 2006 1:38 AM Gaby wrote:
> Based on what Tim said, I don't think I'm going to gain much
> from eliminating "old" boot at the moment. The build time, as
> I see it, is dominated by building the algebras.  And each algebra
> file seems to me to take forever to compile.  Making compilation
> faster is going to speed up the built process.
> 

Let's us Tim's suggested terminology. "Shoe" is the newer version
of Boot in the boot directory, while "Boot" is the older version
of Boot in the interp directory.

My suggestion was to eliminate the source in boot directory
(thus remove Shoe) and use the same method as in the CMUCL build
starting from Boot in the interp directory. Thanks to Tim's analysis
we now know that this would amount to removing the incomplete attempt
to move to a newer version of the BOOT language implied in Shoe.

I would still argue that this is a good idea. It has nothing to
do with speed of the build process. I think the current build
process for Axiom is too complex and eliminating one step results
in a significant reduction in this complexity. It also eliminates
some uncertainty because we no longer have anyone with any
expertise in what Bill Burge was trying to accomplish with Shoe.
The Boot compiler that is in interp is (currently) an integral
part of the SPAD compiler. It would seem to me that eliminating
it would be much more difficult and probably the reason why the
introduction of Shoe was never completed.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
To: "'Ben Collins-Sussman'" <sussman@google.com>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
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Ben,

Could you please arrange to reset the Axiom repository at Google
Code back to "empty" and incorporate the "pre-revprop-change"
hook as required by 'svnsync'? Later today I can try to use
'svnsync' as in my test below to re-populate our repository at
Google.

The documentation of 'svnsync' refers to the mirror that it
constructs as "read-only". I presume that this means only that
there is no provision for two-way updating of the mirror via
this mechanism? So we would be free to commit changes at Google
but we might have to use some other method (e.g. svk smerge')
to maintain more than one copy of this archive. Right?

Thanks.

Bill Page.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Page [mailto:bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca] 
> Sent: October 1, 2006 2:17 PM
> To: 'Ben Collins-Sussman'
> Cc: 'axiom-dev'; 'Gabriel Dos Reis'; 'Bill Page'
> Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
> 
> 
> Earlier I wrote:
> 
> > 
> > But the 'svnsync sync' command says:
> > 
> >  $ svnsync --non-interactive sync file:///home/page/axiom_sync
> > 
> >  svnsync: REPORT request failed on
> > 'https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom'
> >  svnsync: The requested report is unknown.
> > ...
> 
> Ok, the following worked, starting with a local backup copy of the
> repository that was rsync'd from SourceForge.
> 
> $ svnadmin create /home/page/axiom_sync2
> $ echo '#!/bin/sh' > /home/page/axiom_sync2/hooks/pre-revprop-change
> $ chmod 755 /home/page/axiom_sync2/hooks/pre-revprop-change
> $ svnsync init file:///home/page/axiom_sync2 file:///home/page/test0
> $ svnsync --non-interactive sync file:///home/page/axiom_sync2
> ...
> Committed revision 165.
> Copied properties for revision 165.
> $ du -s axiom_sync2
> 156792  axiom_sync2
> 
> -------
> 
> And it's the same size. Great!
> 
> Now, how do I use this at Google Code?
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> 
> 





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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] Boot
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>From looking at the source and some information I got over the years,
I think, at some time, there was the idea to get rid of the old
SPAD compiler (which contains a parser for boot, spad and the
interpreter language).=20

Therefore a new shoe boot parser in the boot directory was written,
and a new parser for the interpreter (which is in use). The new compiler
never
happened and finally aldor (a#) was developed.=20

So we have two parsers for boot and two parsers for the
interpreter language.

There is actually a grammar file, which kind of defines the old parser
language: fnewmeta.meta

About the boot ``language''. We had this discussion before: it really
is not a new language at all, just another syntax for lisp. It has
really
neat features for destructuring and pattern matching. I would assume
that=20
anyone who knows lisp get hold of the syntax in an hour or two. Bill
Page
and I argued in favor of boot for the time being, Tim Daly in rewriting
everything in lisp. I just think, that as long as lists are the main
data structure for the interpreter and the compiler, the boot syntax is
really handy. A total rewrite in lisp with defstruct et al. of the
whole system is too ambitious for the number of people contributing.
Besides, for
a total rewrite one should consider other alternatives as well (aldor,
....).

Regards

Juergen Weiss

Juergen Weiss	  | Universitaet Mainz, Zentrum fuer Datenverarbeitung,
weiss@uni-mainz.de| 55099 Mainz, Tel: +49(6131)39-26361, FAX:
+49(6131)39-26407
=20

> -----Original Message-----
> From: axiom-developer-bounces+weiss=3Duni-mainz.de@nongnu.org=20
> [mailto:axiom-developer-bounces+weiss=3Duni-mainz.de@nongnu.org]
>  On Behalf Of Gabriel Dos Reis
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 8:50 AM
> To: CY
> Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot
>=20
> CY <smustudent1@yahoo.com> writes:
>=20
> [...]
>=20
> | > you'll notice that the makefile in the src/boot directory=20
> explicitly
> | > translates using the BOOTSYS image which contains the=20
> 'shoe' parser.
> | > the makefile in the src/interp directory explicitly=20
> translates using
> | > the DEPSYS image which only contains interpreted lisp files from
> | > the interp directory and is NOT the same as the boot/shoe version.
> |=20
> | Scary.
>=20
> :-)
>=20
> | > rather than referring to them both as boot perhaps we should call
> | > the one in the src/boot directory 'shoe', following=20
> bill's convention.
> |=20
> | I suppose I should know better than to ask, but since the=20
> eventual goal is to=20
> | move the interp to Lisp anyway would a viable alternative=20
> be to "decode via=20
> | rewrite?"=20
>=20
> The more I read the interpreter code, the more I become=20
> convinced that=20
> Boot should stay.  It simplifies many lots of logic; the benefits of
> removing it does not seem to me to outweight the cost and the result.
>=20
> [...]
>=20
> |                                                            =20
>    For example=20
> | (and this might be crazy, it's just a thought) wouldn't it=20
> be possible to use=20
> | packages and the use/import/shadow concepts to handle some=20
> issues related to=20
> | things like subdomains?=20
>=20
> Funny you should mention that.  I was starring at the i-*.boot files
> and was wondering why on the earth all knowledge had to be "hardcoded"
> into the interpret instead of being abstracted into a library...
>=20
> [...]
>=20
> | Eeek.  Shouldn't we be specifying what the language SHOULD=20
> be, and then=20
> | re-merging the code into the new framework?
>=20
> yes, but we need data, i.e. what we want the language to achieve; for
> the moment, the existing code provide such data.  I suspect now, we
> know what we would like to improve, what did not work, and what is
> simply broken idea.
>=20
> -- Gaby
>=20
>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Axiom-developer mailing list
> Axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiom-developer
>=20



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To: "'Weiss, Juergen'" <weiss@uni-mainz.de>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] Boot
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On October 2, 2006 9:17 AM Juergen Weiss wrote:
> ...
> I think, at some time, there was the idea to get rid of the
> old SPAD compiler (which contains a parser for boot, spad and
> the interpreter language). 
> 
> Therefore a new shoe boot parser in the boot directory was
> written, and a new parser for the interpreter (which is in
> use). The new compiler never happened and finally aldor (a#)
> was developed. 
> 
> So we have two parsers for boot and two parsers for the
> interpreter language.
>

So we can eliminate Shoe and also the old interpreter parser,
and everything will still work properly, right?
 
> There is actually a grammar file, which kind of defines the old
> parser language: fnewmeta.meta

Yes. Another argument for basing future work on boot on the
original boot version - at least there is some documentation
of the grammar.

> 
> About the boot ``language''. We had this discussion before: it
> really is not a new language at all, just another syntax for
> lisp. It has really neat features for destructuring and pattern
> matching. I would assume that anyone who knows lisp get hold of
> the syntax in an hour or two.

I am not sure why anyone would be afraid to call Boot a new
language although I agree that it's semantics are essentially
the same as Lisp (actually just a subset of Lisp).

> Bill Page and I argued in favor of boot for the time being, Tim
> Daly in rewriting everything in lisp. I just think, that as long
> as lists are the main data structure for the interpreter and the
> compiler, the boot syntax is really handy.

I also think that understanding that there is a close connection
between Boot and SPAD is an argument in retaining Boot. There
is a strong tendency for a new system to look like the old system
in which it is written. We definitely do not want SPAD to look
like Lisp to the mathematicians who write new algebra code. Boot
provides a natural transition from one environment to the other.

> A total rewrite in lisp with defstruct et al. of the whole system
> is too ambitious for the number of people contributing. Besides,
> for a total rewrite one should consider other alternatives as
> well (aldor, ...).

I still wish for this but I am afraid that is controlled by
people with a different agenda.

>...
> Gaby wrote: 
> > 
> > The more I read the interpreter code, the more I become 
> > convinced that Boot should stay.  It simplifies many lots
> > of logic; the benefits of removing it does not seem to me
> > to outweight the cost and the result.
> > 

It sounds almost like we should take a "vote" :-), although
open source is not organized on democratic principles as such.
It would be really nice if we could get consensus to proceed
in this manner.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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On 10/2/06, root <daly@axiom-developer.org> wrote:

> svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
> svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

Something is very messed up with sourceforge's svn server.  Report
this to sourceforge!  It's not normal at all.



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> It sounds almost like we should take a "vote" :-), although
> open source is not organized on democratic principles as such.
> It would be really nice if we could get consensus to proceed
> in this manner.

vote? vote == running code (to use boot syntax).
extract a clean boot language and document it.
there is no need for consensus in order to do work.

the concern is that your work will end up being wasted and thrown away.

but that's in the nature of this business. consider that within the
next 6 months the whole makefile structure will likely be completely
rewritten, trashing months of my work. that's not waste, that's progress.
and i'm likely to be one of key "agents of dsetruction" since i'm going
to end up ripping out my code and replacing it with gaby's once it works
everywhere. when gaby has running code he doesn't need a vote or consensus.

extracting boot, cleaning it up, and documenting it means that someone
will have documented a portion of the spad language and a portion of
the spad compiler. this would give us a handle on how to change the
spad language. so even if the interpreter never uses boot the whole
system is better defined and easier to change.

open source is a meritocracy, not a democracy. 
everybody has all the code.
may the best work win.

t




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On 10/1/06, Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:

> Now, how do I use this at Google Code?
>

svnsync can replicate any repository to any other, over any network
protocol.  So you'd do something like:

# reset google repos to r0
# initialize google repos:
$ svnsync init https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn file:///the/original/svn/repos
# push the local repos history up to the remote repos
$ svnsync --non-interactive sync https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn

Note:  you can use svnsync to 'push' commits at googlecode, but at the
moment you can't use it to 'pull' commits down from googlecode,
because we've not yet upgraded googlecode to svn 1.4.  (Though we're
actively working on it.)  But the method above is a way of at least
initially populating your googlecode repository.

Btw, I've just reset your repository back to revision 0.



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On 10/2/06, Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:

> The documentation of 'svnsync' refers to the mirror that it
> constructs as "read-only". I presume that this means only that
> there is no provision for two-way updating of the mirror via
> this mechanism? So we would be free to commit changes at Google
> but we might have to use some other method (e.g. svk smerge')
> to maintain more than one copy of this archive. Right?

Correct.  svnsync is a one-way mirroring tool.  For example, you could
use it to set up a single-write-master repository, and then a bunch of
read-only mirrors.

It's different than svk, which is a true 'decentralized' version
control system.  In those sorts of systems, N repositories can be
connected in a random graph, and can safely push/pull changesets with
each other and keep track of the mess.  :-)



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> > A total rewrite in lisp with defstruct et al. of the whole system
> > is too ambitious for the number of people contributing. Besides,
> > for a total rewrite one should consider other alternatives as
> > well (aldor, ...).
> 
> I still wish for this but I am afraid that is controlled by
> people with a different agenda.

controlled? open source is the ultimate "herd of cats".
work on anything you want, any time you want, any way you want.
everybody has the same source access.

as for a different agenda... the interpreter was written originally
in a version of lisp that predates many, many language improvements,
e.g. defstruct. the interpreter behavior is controlled by a lot of
random top-level state variables. it contains duplicate code, 
redundant code, partial implementations, simulations of other lisp
dialects (e.g. NRLIBs), etc. and it lacks documentation.

the interpreter is only one part of axiom and is the part that i
am most qualified to clean and document (since i'm the author of
that code). frankly the code is personally embarrassing and i'm
going to clean it up as a matter of personal redemption.

lisp is the implementation language of the interpreter and has been
since the early 70s timeframe. coding it in lisp is not a departure. 

boot is an experiment in a paren-less lisp syntax. one of hundreds.
if we wanted to use paren-less lisp syntax we should adopt python.
but, as a lisp programmer, i understand that people who advocate
paren-less syntax simply "don't get it". and i've learned that you
can't convince people about it, they must learn it themselves.
once you "get it" you'll never go back.

you'll discover that you can't rewrite portions of the interpreter in
either boot or python because they can't do the source-to-source
transformations like defmacro and backquote. the interpreter lives
to do source-to-source transformations.

and as for wishing...  you don't need to wish. if you rewrite the
interpreter in boot and it is better than the lisp version it will be
adopted.

t




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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] boottocl
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"Weiss, Juergen" <weiss@uni-mainz.de> writes:

[...]

| Besides -- compile times on gcl are longer than on other lisp platforms,
| due the generation of c code and the gcc step. The easy portabily of
| gcl has a price.

Yes, that is a concern raised by Bob Boyer in mail conversation.  Camm
and I are contemplating integration of GCL to GCC so as to avoid the C
generation code -- instead call the GCC middle-end directly on
trees produced by GCL.  That project is a priority, but there is a
strong competition for the top of the TODO-stack...

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] boottocl
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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

[...]

| Let's us Tim's suggested terminology. "Shoe" is the newer version
| of Boot in the boot directory, while "Boot" is the older version
| of Boot in the interp directory.
| 
| My suggestion was to eliminate the source in boot directory
| (thus remove Shoe) and use the same method as in the CMUCL build
| starting from Boot in the interp directory. Thanks to Tim's analysis
| we now know that this would amount to removing the incomplete attempt
| to move to a newer version of the BOOT language implied in Shoe.
| 
| I would still argue that this is a good idea.

I'm very skeptical that removing "shoe" is a good idea.  I wouold
think it sends us back to less high-level code.

I would prefer to eliminate "old" boot; but that is not something I
have a plan for in the immediate future.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot
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"Weiss, Juergen" <weiss@uni-mainz.de> writes:

[...]

| About the boot ``language''. We had this discussion before: it really
| is not a new language at all, just another syntax for lisp. It has
| really
| neat features for destructuring and pattern matching. I would assume
| that 
| anyone who knows lisp get hold of the syntax in an hour or two. 

Indeed.  I don't think eliminating boot/shoe is a good idea.

Furtheremo, I would much prefer the completion of "shoe" and remove
the "old" boot.

I believe a rewrite into lisp a real backward step.

*If* a rwerite there should be, it should be a statically typed
language that has support fro pattern matching.  But, I don't see that
happening tomorrow.

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| extract a clean boot language and document it.

I have students who will be working on the Boot code and the
interpreter.  I suspect part of their work will be to a documentation
of Boot.

-- Gaby



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> > svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
> > svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)
> 
> Something is very messed up with sourceforge's svn server.  Report
> this to sourceforge!  It's not normal at all.


I fully agree that sourceforge is broken. My gut feel (and this is
just a guess) is that SVN relies heavily on tmp space in order to
do 'transactions'. sourceforge probably randomly runs out of tmp space
depending on how many SVN sessions are running. Since sourceforge would
not SEE the errors they can validly claim that it isn't their fault.




My issue isn't with the setup of the system but with the design.  It
is my belief that SVN does not properly recover from these failures in
any convenient way. It should be possible to automatically retry a
transaction or, if not that, to restart a transaction. Network and
storage errors are usually temporary but SVN does not recover well at
all. Often times my work system gets wedged into a state with 'locks'.
In work we use 'tortoise' as a windows cover and it recommends that we
run cleanup.  (BTW, why have cleanup? Why not just fail to a clean
state instead?)  Cleanup takes a long time and NEVER succeeds. Once a
transaction fails SVN leaves the world in a broken state and the only
recovery action available is to redo the work.

Clearly SVN 'works' since I can do a checkout followed by 10 updates
and I get all my code back. It 'works' in theory.

A code archive is just a way to store and recover work. 
It should be as robust as a copy operation and just as easy to use.
Imagine if copy 'locked' your source directory so you couldn't 
restart the copy. And the cleanup command couldn't fix it? 
Would that be a reasonable design for the 'cp' command?

Claiming I'm an 'outlier' on the usage curve is not solution.
Perhaps I'm using SVN in some stupid way and don't know all of the
special switches. But really, how hard is this? Checkout, change,
commit. That's all I ever do. It should 'just work'.

Tim



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot
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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > > A total rewrite in lisp with defstruct et al. of the whole system
| > > is too ambitious for the number of people contributing. Besides,
| > > for a total rewrite one should consider other alternatives as
| > > well (aldor, ...).
| > 
| > I still wish for this but I am afraid that is controlled by
| > people with a different agenda.
| 
| controlled?

I suspect he was referring to Aldor.

[...]

| lisp is the implementation language of the interpreter and has been
| since the early 70s timeframe. coding it in lisp is not a departure. 

But in the light of improvements that happened since then, and
considering we're now in 2006, it is a backward step, the benefits of
which I fail to see.

| boot is an experiment in a paren-less lisp syntax. one of hundreds.
| if we wanted to use paren-less lisp syntax we should adopt python.

over my dead-body :-)

[...]

| you'll discover that you can't rewrite portions of the interpreter in
| either boot or python because they can't do the source-to-source
| transformations like defmacro and backquote. the interpreter lives
| to do source-to-source transformations.

Yes, but that does not necessarily imply everything must be written in
Lisp.  Your reasoning schema could be instantiated to argue fro
writing everything in assembly because there are lot of things one can
do in assembly, and impossible to achieve in a random higher-level language.

I'm very happy to write a very little tiny amount of code in Lisp, and
write the rest in Boot that brings other niceties and sugar.  Yes,
sugar is important.

-- Gaby



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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Bill Page=20

> So we can eliminate Shoe and also the old interpreter parser,
> and everything will still work properly, right?

not quite. The old parser is used by the SPAD compiler,
can be used as BOOT parser and as the interpreter
parser. So in principle we could drop the new parser and=20
the boot directory. There are some (minor ?) problems with=20
that: the old parser does not understand rule syntax (used=20
by the interpreter). When some day the SPAD compiler would be=20
replaced by Aldor, the need for the old parser would be diminished.
>From memory I would say, that the old parser does not keep the
original input - so error messages especially in the SPAD compiler
show the failing expression in internal lisp syntax - not very=20
user friendly. Then there is the question of style: The old
parser is build around the grammar file fnewmeta with  special
syntax handled by functions in parse.boot and postpar.boot.
the new parser in cparse.boot (?) and support functions=20
in some other files are written in different style
(recursive descent ?).

I think it is extremely important to delete duplicate code. On the
other side, without a clear direction of development, with the
uncertainty if Aldor will be available freely, I find it difficult
to suggest, which parser to drop.

Regards

Juergen Weiss

Juergen Weiss	  | Universitaet Mainz, Zentrum fuer Datenverarbeitung,
weiss@uni-mainz.de| 55099 Mainz, Tel: +49(6131)39-26361, FAX:
+49(6131)39-26407



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: svn failures
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On 10/2/06, root <daly@axiom-developer.org> wrote:
> > > svn: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default'
> > > svr: REPORT of '/svnroot/magnus/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read response body: Secure connection truncated (https://svn.sourceforge.net)
> >
> > Something is very messed up with sourceforge's svn server.  Report
> > this to sourceforge!  It's not normal at all.
>
>
> I fully agree that sourceforge is broken. My gut feel (and this is
> just a guess) is that SVN relies heavily on tmp space in order to
> do 'transactions'. sourceforge probably randomly runs out of tmp space
> depending on how many SVN sessions are running. Since sourceforge would
> not SEE the errors they can validly claim that it isn't their fault.

The error message above looks like a full-out apache crash, not a
simple 'ran out of tmp space'.  The sourceforge guys should see a real
crash in their logs.

Yes, when you run 'svn update', a tiny description of your working
copy is sent to the server (what versions of what files you have), and
it sits in a tmpfile.  The server then reads that tmpfile and knows
what to send back.  The tmpfile is automatically deleted when the
connection closes.


> My issue isn't with the setup of the system but with the design.  It
> is my belief that SVN does not properly recover from these failures in
> any convenient way. It should be possible to automatically retry a
> transaction or, if not that, to restart a transaction. Network and
> storage errors are usually temporary but SVN does not recover well at
> all. Often times my work system gets wedged into a state with 'locks'.
> In work we use 'tortoise' as a windows cover and it recommends that we
> run cleanup.  (BTW, why have cleanup? Why not just fail to a clean
> state instead?)  Cleanup takes a long time and NEVER succeeds. Once a
> transaction fails SVN leaves the world in a broken state and the only
> recovery action available is to redo the work

I admit, I'm not following your train of thought here.  I initially
thought you were talking about retrying commit-attempts in the
repository (which we refer to as 'transactions' before the commit
succeeds.)  But I think you're talking about the fragility of the
working copy, rather?

The working copy, unlike CVS, is a completely journaled system.  If
you 'kill -9' a cvs update, you're likely to get silently corrupted
data.  If you do the same to an svn update, the whole process was
journaled, and that's what 'svn cleanup' is for... to execute the
journals and return the working copy to a consistent state.
Obviously, one cannot 'just fail to a clean state', because
interruptions aren't perfectly predictable.  That's why journaling is
a great technique.  Granted, journals can't always recover things, but
they usually do.

> Claiming I'm an 'outlier' on the usage curve is not solution.

I didn't claim it was a solution to your problem.  I'm just saying
that you're falling into the classic trap of "it doesn't work for me,
therefore it must be a fundamentally broken design, and it must be
lousy for everyone else in the world."  That's not a rational position
to take.  :-)

The only solution I can recommend is to send detailed transcripts of
your errors to a support list and figure out what's going on in your
*particular* setup.  Generalization isn't productive.  Specific
troubleshooting is.

> Perhaps I'm using SVN in some stupid way and don't know all of the
> special switches. But really, how hard is this? Checkout, change,
> commit. That's all I ever do. It should 'just work'.

Agreed, it should just work. And it does for 99% of people.

I shouldn't be intruding on your discussions, so I'll bow out.  Good
luck to you guys!  Tim, if you want to discuss theory/design or just
troubleshoot stuff, I invite you to join users@subversion.tigris.org.



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> | lisp is the implementation language of the interpreter and has been
> | since the early 70s timeframe. coding it in lisp is not a departure. 
> 
> But in the light of improvements that happened since then, and
> considering we're now in 2006, it is a backward step, the benefits of
> which I fail to see.

the benefits of which i see quite clearly. what new improvements in
lisp make cleaning up the interpreter code 'a backward step'?
the new ASDF facility will make makefiles into one-liners.
the new UFFI facility will make external functions portable.
the McCLIM facility will make embedded graphics possible and portable.
CLOS will make the interpreter much more general and easier to change.
CLSQL will allow the use of a real database backend.
SLIME will make emacs know all about axiom.

i've hated boot since the first day i saw it.
there is no chance of convincing me to code in boot.
it adds nothing and subtracts A LOT.
you lose the programs <=> data equivalence.
you can't do macros or backquote since boot doesn't do parens.
you can't do CLOS since boot knows nothing about objects.
you can't do CLSQL without changing boot syntax ( [] is CLSQL syntax)
you can't do SLIME without changing it to understand boot.
the lisp top-level doesn't understand boot so you HAVE to know lisp anyway.
and, there are exactly 0 boot programmers left in the world.
there hasn't been new boot code written in years.

i failed to see the benefit of autoconf/automake.
you do. so you're rewriting it. because you're willing to invest
time and effort in writing and fully documenting a new makefile
structure you'll clearly 'win' the makefile 'debate'. i stand to
lose a lot (since i invented and implemented the makefile scheme)
but (provided you document it) i'm willing to follow your lead.

t



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From: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: [Axiom-developer] skipping boot directory
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X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 02 Oct 2006 16:18:40 -0000

There was some talk recently that boot directory is not needed. Since
remowing boot would eliminate confusion between "new" and "old"
boot language I decided to try this. The following patch (based
on build-improvements branch) implements this. It turned out that
I need to tweak a few files to compile them using new boot compiler.

AFAICS the two compiler produce different code, which in some cases
may be non-equivalent. Namely, I had to move 'shoeIntern' function
defined in 'intfile.boot.pamphlet' to Lisp ('patches.lisp.pamphlet')
because the new compiler is translates 'GET' int 'GETL' and
'GETL' do not possess a setf-setter.

Before building you need to run build-setup.sh (I have skipped
patches to generated files).

The patch itself:

--- pp/build-improvements/src/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-09-29 21:09:47.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-02 16:45:06.000000000 +0200
@@ -178,8 +178,9 @@
 files they are built in the interp subdirectory using the
 same Makefile.
 <<interpdir>>=
-$(interp-stamp): $(boot-stamp)
+$(interp-stamp): $(lib-stamp)
 	@echo 25 making ${INT}/interp
+	@$(mkinstalldirs) ${OBJ}/${SYS}/bin
 	@$(mkinstalldirs) ${INT}/interp
 	@$(mkinstalldirs) ${INT}/algebra
 	@$(mkinstalldirs) ${OBJ}/${SYS}/interp
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/Makefile.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/Makefile.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-09-29 21:09:44.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-02 16:42:56.000000000 +0200
@@ -86,7 +86,7 @@
 itself to bootstrap the system). This image is assumed to
 have been built by a previous step in the make process.
 <<environment>>=
-BOOTSYS= ${OBJ}/${SYS}/bin/bootsys    
+BOOTSYS= ${OBJ}/${SYS}/bin/depsys    
 
 @
 
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/astr.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/astr.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/astr.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:43.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/astr.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:56:10.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 --% Attributed Structures (astr)
 -- For objects which are pairs where the CAR field is either just a tag
 -- (an identifier) or a pair which is the tag and an association list.
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/cformat.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/cformat.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/cformat.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:42.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/cformat.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:56:22.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 --% Formatting functions for various compiler data objects.
 --  These are used as [%origin o, %id n] for %1f %2f... style arguments
 --  in a keyed message.
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/cparse.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/cparse.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/cparse.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:44.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/cparse.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 14:37:33.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 -- npTerm introduced between npRemainder and npSum
 -- rhs of assignment changed from npStatement to npGives
 
@@ -134,8 +132,7 @@
        a
 
 npParenthesized f==
-   npParenthesize("(",")",f)   or
-   npParenthesize("(|","|)",f)
+   npParenthesize("(",")",f) or npParenthesize("(|","|)",f)
 
 npParenthesize (open,close,f)==
     a:=$stok
@@ -156,15 +153,15 @@
 
 npParened f ==
     npEnclosed("(",")",function pfParen,f) or
-    npEnclosed("(|","|)",function pfParen,f)
+      npEnclosed("(|","|)",function pfParen,f)
 
 npBracked f ==
     npEnclosed("[","]",function pfBracket,f) or
-    npEnclosed("[|","|]",function pfBracketBar,f)
+      npEnclosed("[|","|]",function pfBracketBar,f)
 
 npBraced f ==
     npEnclosed("{","}",function pfBrace,f) or
-    npEnclosed("{|","|}",function pfBraceBar,f)
+      npEnclosed("{|","|}",function pfBraceBar,f)
 
 npAngleBared f ==
     npEnclosed("<|","|>",function pfHide,f)
@@ -366,11 +363,11 @@
 
 
 npPrimary1() ==
-   npEncAp function npAtom1 or
-   npLet() or
-   npFix() or
-   npMacro() or
-   npBPileDefinition() or npDefn() or
+   npEncAp function npAtom1 or _
+   npLet() or _
+   npFix() or _
+   npMacro() or _
+   npBPileDefinition() or npDefn() or _
    npRule()
 
 npPrimary2()== npEncAp function npAtom2 -- or  npBPileDefinition()
@@ -548,17 +545,17 @@
 npIterator()==   npForIn() or npSuchThat() or npWhile()
 
 npStatement()==
-        npExpress() or
-        npLoop() or
-        npIterate() or
-        npReturn() or
-        npBreak() or
-        npFree() or
-        npImport() or
-        npInline() or
-        npLocal() or
-        npExport() or
-        npTyping() or
+        npExpress() or _
+        npLoop() or _
+        npIterate() or _
+        npReturn() or _
+        npBreak() or _
+        npFree() or _
+        npImport() or _
+        npInline() or _
+        npLocal() or _
+        npExport() or _
+        npTyping() or _
         npVoid()
 
 npBackTrack(p1,p2,p3)==
@@ -781,10 +778,10 @@
     else  npLetQualified  f
 
 npLetQualified f==
-      npEqKey "LET" and
-      (npDefinition() or npTrap()) and
-      npCompMissing "IN"  and
-      (FUNCALL f or npTrap()) and
+      npEqKey "LET" and _
+      (npDefinition() or npTrap()) and _
+      npCompMissing "IN"  and _
+      (FUNCALL f or npTrap()) and _
       npPush pfWhere(npPop2(),npPop1())
 
 
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/cstream.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/cstream.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/cstream.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:44.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/cstream.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:56:47.000000000 +0200
@@ -60,8 +60,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 --% Stream Utilities
  
 npNull x== StreamNull x
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/dq.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/dq.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/dq.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:43.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/dq.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:56:55.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 -- Dequeue functions
  
 -- dqUnit makes a unit dq i.e. a dq with one item, from the item
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/incl.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/incl.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/incl.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:44.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/incl.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:57:02.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
- 
 incStringStream s==
    incRenumber incLude(0,incRgen s,0,['"strings"] ,[Top])
  
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/int-top.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/int-top.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/int-top.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:44.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/int-top.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 14:42:10.000000000 +0200
@@ -152,8 +152,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 --% INTERPRETER TOP LEVEL
  
 <<intloopPrefix?>> 
@@ -264,8 +262,8 @@
      done:=false
      for i in (# x) - 1 .. 0 by -1 while not done repeat
          done:=
-              x.i='" ".0 =>false
-              x.i='"__".0=>
+              x.i= char " " => false
+              x.i= char "__" =>
                        esc:=true
                        true
               true
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/intfile.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/intfile.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/intfile.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:42.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/intfile.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 16:47:42.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,24 +46,26 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 shoeInternFile(fn)==
    a:=shoeInputFile fn
    if null a
    then WRITE_-LINE (CONCAT(fn,'" not found"),_*TERMINAL_-IO_*)
    else shoeIntern incRgen a
  
-shoeIntern (s)==
-   StreamNull s => nil
-   f:=CAR s
-   # f < 8 => shoeIntern CDR s
-   f.0=char " " =>shoeIntern CDR s
-   a:=INTERN SUBSTRING (f,0,8)
-   [b,c]:= shoeStrings CDR s
-   SETF(GET (a,"MSGS"),b)
-   shoeIntern c
- 
+-- 
+-- The in following GET is mistranslated to GETL. To avoid the problem
+-- we use translated version from patches.lisp.pamphlet
+--
+-- shoeIntern (s)==
+--    StreamNull s => nil
+--    f:=CAR s
+--    # f < 8 => shoeIntern CDR s
+--    f.0=char " " =>shoeIntern CDR s
+--    a:=INTERN SUBSTRING (f,0,8)
+--    [b,c]:= shoeStrings CDR s
+--    SETF(GET (a,"MSGS"),b)
+--    shoeIntern c
+  
 shoeStrings (stream)==
    StreamNull stream => ['"",stream]
    a:=CAR stream
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/macex.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/macex.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/macex.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:43.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/macex.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:57:21.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 --% Macro expansion
 --  Functions to transform parse forms.
 --
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/msg.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/msg.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/msg.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:44.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/msg.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:57:31.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 --%  Messages for the USERS of the compiler.
 -- The program being compiled has a minor error.
 -- Give a message and continue processing.
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/osyscmd.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/osyscmd.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/osyscmd.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:42.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/osyscmd.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:57:39.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 
 InterpExecuteSpadSystemCommand string ==
   CATCH($intCoerceFailure,
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/packtran.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/packtran.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/packtran.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:42.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/packtran.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 15:30:09.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package 'BOOT
-
 -- The $useNewParser flag controls which parser will be used in the interpreter
 -- If nil then the old parser is used, otherwise Bill Burge's parser is used
 $useNewParser := true
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/parini.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/parini.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/parini.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:43.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/parini.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:57:46.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 SPACE       := QENUM('"    ", 0)
 ESCAPE      := QENUM('"__  ", 0)
 STRING_CHAR := QENUM('"_"  ", 0)
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/patches.lisp.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/patches.lisp.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/patches.lisp.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:42.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/patches.lisp.pamphlet	2006-10-02 16:51:33.000000000 +0200
@@ -63,6 +63,23 @@
 (in-package "BOOT")
 ;;patches for now
 
+;;;
+;;; shoeIntern should be in boot, but we currently mistranslate GET
+;;; as GETL, so we provide Lisp version
+;;;
+;shoeIntern (s)==
+;   StreamNull s => nil
+;   f:=CAR s
+;   # f < 8 => shoeIntern CDR s
+;   f.0=char " " =>shoeIntern CDR s
+;   a:=INTERN SUBSTRING (f,0,8)
+;   [b,c]:= shoeStrings CDR s
+;   SETF(GET (a,"MSGS"),b)
+;   shoeIntern c
+
+(DEFUN |shoeIntern| (|s|) (PROG (|f| |a| |LETTMP#1| |b| |c|) (RETURN (COND ((|StreamNull| |s|) NIL) ((QUOTE T) (SPADLET |f| (CAR |s|)) (COND ((QSLESSP (|#| |f|) 8) (|shoeIntern| (CDR |s|))) ((BOOT-EQUAL (ELT |f| 0) (|char| (QUOTE | |))) (|shoeIntern| (CDR |s|))) ((QUOTE T) (SPADLET |a| (INTERN (SUBSTRING |f| 0 8))) (SPADLET |LETTMP#1| (|shoeStrings| (CDR |s|))) (SPADLET |b| (CAR |LETTMP#1|)) (SPADLET |c| (CADR |LETTMP#1|)) (SETF (GET |a| (QUOTE MSGS)) |b|) (|shoeIntern| |c|))))))))
+
+
 ;; browser stuff:
 #+:UNIX (defvar |$standard| 't)
 #-:UNIX (defvar |$standard| 'nil)
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/pf2sex.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/pf2sex.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/pf2sex.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:42.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/pf2sex.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:57:58.000000000 +0200
@@ -89,8 +89,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 $dotdot := INTERN('"..", '"BOOT")
 $specificMsgTags := nil
 
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/pile.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/pile.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/pile.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:43.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/pile.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:58:06.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 -- insertpiles converts a line-list to a line-forest where
  
 -- a line is a token-dequeue and has a column which is an integer.
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/posit.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/posit.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/posit.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:43.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/posit.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:58:16.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 poNoPosition()    == $nopos
 pfNoPosition() == poNoPosition()
  
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/ptrees.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/ptrees.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/ptrees.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:44.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/ptrees.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:58:25.000000000 +0200
@@ -62,8 +62,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 --constructer and selectors for leaf tokens
 
 tokConstruct(hd,tok,:pos)==
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/ptrop.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/ptrop.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/ptrop.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:43.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/ptrop.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:58:32.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 --% Utility operations on Abstract Syntax Trees
  
 -- An S-expression which people can read.
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/scan.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/scan.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/scan.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:44.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/scan.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:58:40.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 -- Scanner
 
 --  lineoftoks  bites off a token-dq from a line-stream
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/serror.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/serror.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/serror.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:43.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/serror.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:58:46.000000000 +0200
@@ -48,8 +48,6 @@
 
 --% Functions to handle specific errors (mostly syntax)
  
-)package "BOOT"
-
 syGeneralErrorHere() ==
    sySpecificErrorHere('S2CY0002, [])
  
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/sfsfun.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/sfsfun.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/sfsfun.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:42.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/sfsfun.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:59:00.000000000 +0200
@@ -80,9 +80,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
--- Used to be SPECFNSF
-)package "BOOT" 
-
 FloatError(formatstring,arg) ==
 --        ERROR(formatstring,arg)
         ERROR FORMAT([],formatstring,arg)
diff -ru pp/build-improvements/src/interp/varini.boot.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/interp/varini.boot.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/varini.boot.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:44.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/interp/varini.boot.pamphlet	2006-10-02 13:59:08.000000000 +0200
@@ -46,8 +46,6 @@
 <<*>>=
 <<license>>
 
-)package "BOOT"
-
 -- Variables to control whether old software calls the new compiler.
 $ncConverse  :=    NIL
 $newcompMode :=    NIL        -- )comp means new compiler.
--- pp/build-improvements/configure.ac.pamphlet	2006-09-29 21:09:47.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/configure.ac.pamphlet	2006-10-02 17:14:21.000000000 +0200
@@ -491,7 +491,7 @@
 needed at the moment because certain functions do not yet work on
 all platforms. 
 <<SRC_SUBDIRS>>=
-SRC_SUBDIRS="boot interp share algebra etc clef doc graph sman hyper input "
+SRC_SUBDIRS="interp share algebra etc clef doc graph sman hyper input "
 AC_SUBST(SRC_SUBDIRS)
 @
 


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| the new ASDF facility will make makefiles into one-liners.

this makefile stuff does not require writing the whole interpreter in
Lisp. 

| the new UFFI facility will make external functions portable.

Boot being a syntactic sugar over Lisp, this UFFI stuff clearly cannot
be an argument againt Boot.

| the McCLIM facility will make embedded graphics possible and portable.

Ditto.

| CLOS will make the interpreter much more general and easier to change.

Ditto.

| CLSQL will allow the use of a real database backend.

Ditto.

| SLIME will make emacs know all about axiom.

This has nothing to do with Boot.

It looks to me that none of the reasons you advance speaks for
removing Boot.

[...]

| i failed to see the benefit of autoconf/automake.
| you do. so you're rewriting it. because you're willing to invest
| time and effort in writing and fully documenting a new makefile
| structure you'll clearly 'win' the makefile 'debate'.

I'm not rewriting just because I want to rewrite.

-- Gaby



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From: CY <smustudent1@yahoo.com>
To: axiom-developer@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot
Date: Mon, 2 Oct 2006 12:46:14 -0400
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On Monday 02 October 2006 11:33, Weiss, Juergen wrote:
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Bill Page
> >
> > So we can eliminate Shoe and also the old interpreter parser,
> > and everything will still work properly, right?
>
> not quite. The old parser is used by the SPAD compiler,
> can be used as BOOT parser and as the interpreter
> parser. So in principle we could drop the new parser and
> the boot directory.

Heh - cool!  Bill, your advice about needing to work on the boot directory for 
an sbcl port turned out to have some foundation, even after we both thought 
otherwise!

I'll have to go back and take another look at that - I did have boottocl 
running out of the boot dir at one point with what I think were fairly minor 
changes, and I think the only reason I stopped working on it was that 
bookvol5 made asdf choke.  Perhaps it would be worth looking at it again.

Cheers,
CY



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] debugsys
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Tim,

this patchlet fixes a couple of misplaced parenthesis in
interp/debugsys that are causing unwarranted messages.

Furthermore, the build should be aborted instead of being carried on
(as currently done) when the preconditions are not satisfied.

Applied to build-improvements; queued for silver.

-- Gaby

2006-10-02  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>

	* debugsys.lisp.pamphlet: Fix misplaced parenthesis.

*** debugsys.lisp.pamphlet	(revision 15873)
--- debugsys.lisp.pamphlet	(local)
*************** constructed so the compiler can skip arg
*** 56,65 ****
   (format t "The AXIOM shell variable must be set~%")
   (format t "The likely value is axiom/mnt/linux~%"))
  (unless (system:getenv "SYS")   
!  (format t "The SYS shell variable must be set~%")) 
   (format t "The likely value is linux~%"))
! (unless (system:getenv "DAASE"))
!  (format t "The DAASE shell variable must be set~%"))
   (format t "The likely value is axiom/mnt/linux~%"))
  (trace load)
  #+:GCL
--- 56,65 ----
   (format t "The AXIOM shell variable must be set~%")
   (format t "The likely value is axiom/mnt/linux~%"))
  (unless (system:getenv "SYS")   
!  (format t "The SYS shell variable must be set~%") 
   (format t "The likely value is linux~%"))
! (unless (system:getenv "DAASE")
!  (format t "The DAASE shell variable must be set~%")
   (format t "The likely value is axiom/mnt/linux~%"))
  (trace load)
  #+:GCL



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> | the new ASDF facility will make makefiles into one-liners.
> 
> this makefile stuff does not require writing the whole interpreter in
> Lisp. 

The makefile stuff and lisp are independent. But lisp now has the
proper facilities for system building that work directly. This
eliminates the need for makefile stanzas related to compiling
and loading lisp files. Many of the makefile stanzas simply
disappear because they are no longer necessary.

> | the new UFFI facility will make external functions portable.
> 
> Boot being a syntactic sugar over Lisp, this UFFI stuff clearly cannot
> be an argument againt Boot.
> 
> | the McCLIM facility will make embedded graphics possible and portable.
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> | CLOS will make the interpreter much more general and easier to change.
> 
> Ditto.
> 
> | CLSQL will allow the use of a real database backend.
> 
> Ditto.

In order to use these facilities the boot language would have to be
extended or redefined in various ways. For instance, CLSQL statements
cannot be used from the boot level because CLSQL uses the square bracket
notation. Boot uses the same notation with different meaning. CLSQL uses
the lisp reader-macro facility to redefine the meaning of the square
bracket character which immediately breaks boot.

> 
> | SLIME will make emacs know all about axiom.
> 
> This has nothing to do with Boot.

If the interpreter is in boot the SLIME environment would need to 
know how to handle boot syntax. But SLIME knows all about lisp
directly and is a useful support environment for lisp code.

> 
> It looks to me that none of the reasons you advance speaks for
> removing Boot.
> 

There is no reason that requires the removal of boot.
There are reasons that favor the removal of boot.


BOOT requires that you insert a translation step into every
file you process which causes you to require ADDITIONAL stanzas in
the makefiles. 

Boot translation takes time during system build which can be eliminated.

Boot inserts the translation step between you and the lisp top-level
loop, making debugging "one step removed".

Boot is written in boot. Which means that if you change it you
have to re-translate the lisp code used to bootstrap it and re-insert
it into the files (see btincl2.boot for instance).

Boot adds to the total amount of code that needs to be maintained,
making the support task harder.

Boot constructs translate into inefficient, time and space poor
list-based code constructs. 



Oh, and there is an unmentioned problem with boot. The boot parser
is fairly sensitive. You'll notice that in src/interp/bootlex.lisp
there is a line that reads:

 (format out-stream ";;;Boot translation finished for ~a~%")

This line is there because if the boot translation fails it quietly
truncates the translated lisp output. The old makefiles used to run
a check for this string after each translation. I forgot to include
this check as part of the recreated Makefiles. This will only become
apparent when/if people start changing boot code. We will have to again
automate the check to ensure that we don't quietly break the world.
This isn't apparent (yet) because no-one codes in boot.



Frankly, I'm just astonished. Boot is a language with 0 users, two
undocumented implementations, and restrictive syntax and semantics
which produces slow, inefficient list-based code and increases build
time.  It has not one benefit except that you don't need to understand
lisp syntax for a very limited set of constructs but you must
understand lisp to use it.

Make it into a real, documented, standalone language or kill it.
I have no plans to work to make it real, documented, or standalone.
I'll leave that for someone else.

t






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>From Gold CHANGELOG:

20060904 tpd src/interp/debugsys.lisp fix paren balance


already fixed. but thanks for the patch.

t



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"Weiss, Juergen" <weiss@uni-mainz.de> writes:

| Actually compiling stuff is extremely fast ;-) -- compared to 1991 or so
| on a sun sparc ipc with 8 or 32 MBytes of memory. There were some 
| functions (not files) which took hours to compile. And in the meantime
| not only the hardware has evolved, but some data structures in the SPAD
| compiler 
| changed from alists to hashes.

Ouch. Still, Axiom should not be that slow to compile :-)

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Boot
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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| BOOT requires that you insert a translation step into every
| file you process which causes you to require ADDITIONAL stanzas in
| the makefiles. 

in the various incarnations of my local version interp, converting
from Boot to Lisp is handled by a generic rule:

   .PRECIOUS: %.boot
   .PRECIOUS: %.clisp
   %.clisp: %.boot
          $(BOOT_TO_LISP)

[...]

| Boot inserts the translation step between you and the lisp top-level
| loop, making debugging "one step removed".

Well, I have no need to debug at the lisp level. :-)

| Boot is written in boot.

I'm sure many Lisp implementations are written in Lisp.

| Which means that if you change it you
| have to re-translate the lisp code used to bootstrap it and re-insert
| it into the files (see btincl2.boot for instance).

This has not proven be a problem to me.  If you look at the
build-improvements, you'll notice that it now has a full-three stage
bootstrapping for Boot -- the only thing we don't do at the moment is
to compare the generated lisp.

[...]

| Boot constructs translate into inefficient, time and space poor
| list-based code constructs. 

yes, but that is not an inherent inefficiency

[...]

|                                                   We will have to again
| automate the check to ensure that we don't quietly break the world.

Anything that can be automated should be.

| This isn't apparent (yet) because no-one codes in boot.

but, wait for a week or so :-)

[...]

| Make it into a real, documented, standalone language or kill it.

I believe we all agree that noone wants an undocumented language that
runs forever.  This holds for Boot, SPAD, etc.

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| >From Gold CHANGELOG:
| 
| 20060904 tpd src/interp/debugsys.lisp fix paren balance

Aha, I missed that one.

-- Gaby



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] Boot
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Jugen Weiss wrote:=20
> > > A total rewrite in lisp with defstruct et al. of the whole system
> > > is too ambitious for the number of people contributing. Besides,
> > > for a total rewrite one should consider other alternatives as
> > > well (aldor, ...).
Bill Page wrote:
> > I still wish for this but I am afraid that is controlled by
> > people with a different agenda.
>
On Monday, October 02, 2006 10:51 AM Tim Daly wrote:
> ...
> controlled? open source is the ultimate "herd of cats".
> work on anything you want, any time you want, any way you
> want. everybody has the same source access.

Sorry, you miss understand. I *wish* for the release of Aldor
as open source.

It is about Aldor that I claim is "controlled by peole with a
different agenda".

>...=20
> you'll discover that you can't rewrite portions of the
> interpreter in either boot or python because they can't do
> the source-to-source transformations like defmacro and
> backquote. the interpreter lives to do source-to-source
> transformations.

Actually that's not true. Python is used in the Sage
interpreter to do just that.

>=20
> and as for wishing...  you don't need to wish. if you
> rewrite the interpreter in boot and it is better than the
> lisp version it will be adopted.
>=20

If Aldor would be released as open source, I think this
might be worth the effort. But not using Boot.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Ralf, the reason the command line was slipt is that everyong on 
> online reads gerbish to be -- I can't see whether the next paren
> starts from where the previous ends.  All those reasons, why we format
> codes :-)
> 
> Now, if this is a make bug, then it is really unfortunate. :-(
> 

The following patch works for me (first one needs to run 'build-setup.sh'):

--- pp/build-improvements/lsp/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-09-29 21:09:47.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn2/lsp/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-02 18:43:20.000000000 +0200
@@ -54,10 +54,10 @@
 default this code into the image so it is always avaiable.
 
 \begin{verbatim}
-	echo '(progn (load "cmpnew/gcl_collectfn.lsp") \
-		     (load "lsp/sys-proclaim.lisp") \
-		     (compiler::emit-fn t) \
-                     (system::save-system "${OUT}/lisp"))' \
+	echo '(progn (load "cmpnew/gcl_collectfn.lsp")' \
+		   ' (load "lsp/sys-proclaim.lisp")' \
+		   ' (compiler::emit-fn t)' \
+                   ' (system::save-system "${OUT}/lisp"))' \
              | $(GCL))
 \end{verbatim}
 
@@ -133,17 +133,17 @@
 <<build lisp for boot>>=
 # Create a fresh image for building Boot
 $(OUT)/lisp: $(GCL) $(lisp_DEPENDENCIES) $(OUT)
-	echo '(compiler::link nil "${OUT}/lisp" \
-                (format nil "(progn (let ((*load-path* (cons ~S *load-path*))\
-                                          (si::*load-types* ~S)) \
-                                         (compiler::emit-fn t)) \
-                                    (when (fboundp (quote si::sgc-on)) \
-                                          (si::sgc-on t)) \
-                                    (setq compiler::*default-system-p* t))" \
-                        si::*system-directory* (quote (list ".lsp"))) \
-                "$(build_libdir)/cfuns-c.o \
-                  $(build_libdir)/sockio-c.o \
-                  $(build_libdir)/libspad.a")' \
+	echo '(compiler::link nil "${OUT}/lisp" ' \
+              ' (format nil "(progn (let ((*load-path* (cons ~S *load-path*))'\
+                                        ' (si::*load-types* ~S))' \
+                                       ' (compiler::emit-fn t))' \
+                                  ' (when (fboundp (quote si::sgc-on))' \
+                                        ' (si::sgc-on t))' \
+                                  ' (setq compiler::*default-system-p* t))"' \
+                      ' si::*system-directory* (quote (list ".lsp")))' \
+               ' "$(build_libdir)/cfuns-c.o' \
+               '  $(build_libdir)/sockio-c.o' \
+               '  $(build_libdir)/libspad.a")' \
             | $(GCL)
 
 $(OUT):


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > Ralf, the reason the command line was slipt is that everyong on 
| > online reads gerbish to be -- I can't see whether the next paren
| > starts from where the previous ends.  All those reasons, why we format
| > codes :-)
| > 
| > Now, if this is a make bug, then it is really unfortunate. :-(
| > 
| 
| The following patch works for me (first one needs to run 'build-setup.sh'):

You have a "go" to commit it.

Thanks!

-- Gaby



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On Oct 2, 2006, at 10:10, root wrote:

> storage errors are usually temporary but SVN does not recover well at
> all. Often times my work system gets wedged into a state with 'locks'.
> In work we use 'tortoise' as a windows cover and it recommends that we
> run cleanup.  (BTW, why have cleanup? Why not just fail to a clean
> state instead?)  Cleanup takes a long time and NEVER succeeds.

I can only say that automatically cleaning up would defeat the  
purpose. The purpose is this: while some Subversion operations run,  
they modify your working copy, and they require that they are the  
only process modifying the working copy. If you run an "svn update,"  
for example, and it takes 10 minutes, and 5 minutes into the process  
you start another "svn update" it should fail and say that the  
working copy is locked (by the first update process) and to run "svn  
cleanup" if you feel the locks should be removed. If Subversion  
automatically did this, the first update process would be disturbed.  
The advisory to clean up is intended for the cases where the above  
hypothetical first update process has crashed and you therefore need  
to remove the working copy locks manually.

In the case you are experiencing, "svn cleanup" is presumably not  
relevant, despite what Subversion suggests, which is why running it  
has no discernible effect.





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On Monday, October 02, 2006 11:03 AM Gaby wrote:
>=20
> "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:
> ...=20
> | I would still argue that [to remove Shoe" is a good idea.
>=20
> I'm very skeptical that removing "shoe" is a good idea.  I wouold
> think it sends us back to less high-level code.
>

Yes, perhaps. But my first look at the two versions of boot
does not allow me to clearly distinquish that "Shoe" is higher-
level code. In terms of understandability I think I prefer
the old source code.
=20
> I would prefer to eliminate "old" boot; but that is not something
> I have a plan for in the immediate future.
>=20

Understood. In any case, you have my vote should you decide
on one or the other (but not both). :-)

Regards,
Bill Page.




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Page, Bill [Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca] wrote:
> > The reason, I am asking is that we currently run Twiki at RISC,
> > but I am not so convinced whether it is better/worse than Zwiki
> > or MediaWiki. (It's a pain to learn just another wiki syntax...)
> 
> I have looked at Twiki, and used both MediaWiki and Moinmoin. I
> think all three of these now have optional LaTeX support.
> 
> https://twiki.cern.ch/twiki/bin/view/TWiki/MathModePlugin
> http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/MediaWiki_math_markup
> http://johannes.sipsolutions.net/Projects/new-moinmoin-latex

Some of these existed when I started looking at LatexWiki.  My
motivation was to create a syntax that was as close to true Latex as
possible.  I expected my physics collaborators would use it, and I
didn't want them to have to learn wiki syntax at all.  I always have
favored a pure, faux-latex enviroment which is essentially a wiki but
uses latex markup.  e.g. \begin{itemize}, {\bf ...} etc.

I've made stabs in this direction but never quite gotten something
finished.  I have an interesting piece of python that is a BNF parser
that does most of the above plus converts tex math the MathML.  It still
needs some work but I'd be happy to pass it off if that interests
someone.

> And they all could probably quite easily be adapted to interface
> with Axiom and other computer algebra packages the way that
> ZWiki/MathAction does now.
> 
> MediaWiki is famous because it is the software that runs Wikipedia.
> The Sage project is using Moinmoin possibly because it is written
> in Python which is also the implementation language for Sage. But
> Moinmoin does not use Zope so it is simpler in that respect.
> 
> The "wiki syntax" in all of these systems was originally intended
> to be very simple to use so as not to represent any barrier for
> new users, but this goal has in most cases been abandoned because
> it turns out that people do care about the format. Most of these
> systems have some form of "WYSIWYG page editing" which is supposed
> to be easy for new users to create nicely formatted pages. Moinmoin
> in particular has a very nice editor.  ZWiki has this as an option
> but I have turned it off because unfortunately it does not work
> properly with the LatexWiki embedded LaTeX commands.

I abhor the WYSIWYG editing...and I think it's a disaster for math.
Have you tried entering "2D formulas" in Mathematica or Maple?  It's a
HCI disaster.  You should also see ASciencePad::

    http://math.chapman.edu/~jipsen/asciencepad/asciencepad.html

which does have a WYSIWYG editor, and math input using ASCIIMathML.
(but the compatability of ASCIIMathML is far inferior to jsMath or the
LatexWiki approach which actually uses latex)

Let me quote my message from the TiddlyWiki list on this subject:

Udo Borkowski [Udo.Borkowski@gmx.de] wrote:
> I absolutely agree with you. I guess one way to achieve a better
> "end-user friendlyness" would be a different way to edit the tiddlers.
> Not typing wiki syntax but more a "WYSIWYG" kind of editing. Will be
> quite some work to program this, but people will love it. Thinks like
> the WikiToolbar is certainly a first step into that direction.

No no no no no no no.

M$ Word and their ilk have conditioned people to spend their lives
looking under toadstools and clicking on things.  They spend a lot of
their leves pulling hair out over "why won't this block left-align?!?!"
The inner workings are opaque.  Somehow this is deemed "easier".  I
could not more vehemently disagree.

Wiki is a fundamentally different philosophy that is closer in spirit to
markup languages such as latex, with the added bonus that there are no
error messages, it "just works", and the input is readable.

Such a thing could be created of course but it would not be a wiki.
Better to call it TiddlyWord and charge a lot of money for it's "ease of
use".  Of course it will be slow and crash a lot and be hard to get to
do what you want.  (Have you TRIED the WYSIWYG HTML editors out there?)
Fitting of the "Word" monkier...

Anyway, I have a radically different idea.  Not sure if I've expressed
it here before.  Maybe in that "Resizing editor" thread or the one about
tables...

Let's have a editor panel (textarea replacement) that uses the same kind
of tricks used by the WYSIWYG HTML editors, but instead make it *help*
you type wiki syntax, without interfering.  For instance, imagine after
typing '[[' it places a '|http://link]]' to the right of your cursor.
It's not real text.  You can type over it.  If you type ']]' it will
disappear.  Typing **bold** will do something similar, but in addition
it will partially mark-up so that **bold** appears in a bold font.
Typing some obvious alias for an unusual UTF-8 character (like ellipsis,
en-dash, curly quotes, etc) will insert that character.  Think of it as
a syntax-highlighting wiki editor, with a lookahead that anticipates
what the user is typing.  Things which clash with the wiki philosophy
(like tables) could be entered in a manner similar to that used by the
WYSIWYG editors.

There are two major mistakes of existing products:
1) Making the user click on a lot of crap
2) Making the user use arrow keys to navigate basic text entry.
    (Mathematica/Maple do this with formula input -- arrow key to get
    out of your superscript and back down to the main line)

Let's get radical here.  In my mind document editing is still largely an
unsolved problem.  We have an *interactive* wiki editor.  We don't have
to stick to the textarea like every wiki in existance.  Nor do we have
to be M$ Word!  We can do anything!  What would your ideal wiki editor
do?

--
Cheers,
Bob McElrath [Univ. of California at Davis, Department of Physics]

    A people that values its privileges above its principles soon loses both. 
    - Dwight Eisenhower

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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> | > Ralf, the reason the command line was slipt is that everyong on 
> | > online reads gerbish to be -- I can't see whether the next paren
> | > starts from where the previous ends.  All those reasons, why we format
> | > codes :-)
> | > 
> | > Now, if this is a make bug, then it is really unfortunate. :-(
> | > 
> | 
> | The following patch works for me (first one needs to run 'build-setup.sh'):
> 
> You have a "go" to commit it.
> 

Hmm, IIUC since ATM I not a Sourceforge project member I can not write
to the repository. I have just created a Sourceforge account (whebisch),
but I think that I can not commit before sombody adds me to the project.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Waldek,

On Monday, October 02, 2006 2:50 PM you wrote:
>=20
> Hmm, IIUC since ATM I not a Sourceforge project member I can
> not write to the repository. I have just created a Sourceforge
> account (whebisch), but I think that I can not commit before
> somebody adds me to the project.
>=20

I have added you as an Axiom developer on SourceForge with write
access to the CVS and SVN.

I think that (at least unofficially :) we should consider Gaby as
the "master" of the SVN repository on SourceForge. So discussing
commits with him prior to committing to trunk or to a branch for
which you do not have primary responsibility would be a good idea.

For experiments of the type you described in a previous message of
"skipping boot directory" it might be less disruptive if you were
to create your own branch via 'svn copy'. I would also like to
work on this idea and being able to download your branch would
make this easier. Perhaps there is still a chance that we can
interest Gaby in going this route.

Thanks for your work on this.

Bill Page.



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: Sage on Doyen
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Alfredo,=20

Have you had a chance to work on adding Sage support to the
DoyenCD?

I will be leaving for Seattle on Thursday, but I am working
for the next two days at a location where I can make a large
number of copies of a CD very easily. If it is possible to
have a new version of DoyenCD late tonight or sometime tomorrow,
that would be great. If there is any problem, please let me
know. If necessary I could try my hand at creating a new DoyenCD
based on your documentation but I would prefer to leave it to
the "master". :-)

Also, did you get my email for last week reguarding a problem
with Maxima output on the version of DoyenCD at
http://doyen.sytes.net ?

Regards,
Bill Page.

On Sunday, September 24, 2006 9:49 PM Alfredo Portes wrote:
> Bill Page wrote:=20
> > I have finally updated the MathAction darcs repository
> > http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/MathActionRepository to
> > include the changes I made to MathAction to support Sage
> > \begin{sageblock} and \sage{...} commands.
>=20
> Thanks.
>=20
> > Do you have some time available to add this to the DoyenCD?
>=20
> Tomorrow, I can spend time working on this.
>=20
> > You should use:
> >
> >   darcs pull http://page.axiom-developer.org/repository/latexwiki
> >
> > to get these updates for Sage support. As usual, take care to
> > modify the paths in the code appropriately for Doyen.
>=20
> 10-4. :-)
>=20
> > I would like to be able to distribute the DoyenCD with Doyen
> > Wiki support for Sage at the upcoming Sage Days 2 in Seattle,
> > October 6-10. I will be attending the meeting and especially
> > the coding sprint sessions where I plan to do my best to
> > implement a first version of a Sage interface for Axiom. This
> > would mean that Sage users would be able to use Axiom the same
> > way they use Maxima now.
> >
> > http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/days2
> > http://sage-wiki.axiom-developer.org/days2
>=20
> Sounds great. I plan to talk to my advisor tomorrow and hopefully
> I can go the Sage days. :-)
>=20
> > If you could put up a version of Doyen with Sage support on the
> > web, I would also like to add a few pages to the wiki that
> > demonstrate how to use Sage (derived from those on MathAction)
> > so that they can be included on the DoyenCD.
>=20
> http://doyen.sytes.net . I will let you know when I update this
> with your version on MathAction.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Alfredo
>=20



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
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Ben,

I response to:

$ svnsync init https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn
file:///home/page/axiom-sf
$ svnsync --non-interactive sync https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn=20

After about an hour of processing I obtained the message:

  svnsync: At least one property change failed; repository is unchanged
  Committed revision 1.
  Copied properties for revision 1.
  Committed revision 2.
  Copied properties for revision 2.

and svnsync stopped.

Do you have any idea what might have gone wrong?

Regards,
Bill Page.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Collins-Sussman [mailto:sussman@google.com]=20
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:47 AM
> To: Bill Page
> Cc: axiom-dev; Gabriel Dos Reis
> Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
>=20
> On 10/1/06, Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:
>=20
> > Now, how do I use this at Google Code?
> >
>=20
> svnsync can replicate any repository to any other, over any network
> protocol.  So you'd do something like:
>=20
> # reset google repos to r0
> # initialize google repos:
> $ svnsync init https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn=20
> file:///the/original/svn/repos
> # push the local repos history up to the remote repos
> $ svnsync --non-interactive sync https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn
>=20
> Note:  you can use svnsync to 'push' commits at googlecode, but at the
> moment you can't use it to 'pull' commits down from googlecode,
> because we've not yet upgraded googlecode to svn 1.4.  (Though we're
> actively working on it.)  But the method above is a way of at least
> initially populating your googlecode repository.
>=20
> Btw, I've just reset your repository back to revision 0.
>=20



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> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> | > Ralf, the reason the command line was slipt is that everyong on 
> | > online reads gerbish to be -- I can't see whether the next paren
> | > starts from where the previous ends.  All those reasons, why we format
> | > codes :-)
> | > 
> | > Now, if this is a make bug, then it is really unfortunate. :-(
> | > 
> | 
> | The following patch works for me (first one needs to run 'build-setup.sh'):
> 
> You have a "go" to commit it.
> 

I tested version 165, version 167 introduced similar problem in boot
Makefile, so I commited changes to both makefiles.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Bill Page wrote:
> For experiments of the type you described in a previous message of
> "skipping boot directory" it might be less disruptive if you were
> to create your own branch via 'svn copy'. I would also like to
> work on this idea and being able to download your branch would
> make this easier. Perhaps there is still a chance that we can
> interest Gaby in going this route.
> 

I think that "skipping boot directory" does not deserve a branch,
it is a single patch which hopefully should change only in
cosmetic ways.  IMHO it would fit best into build-improvements,
but I leave it for Gaby to decide (of course I will not push such
change without his approval).



-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

| Waldek,
| 
| On Monday, October 02, 2006 2:50 PM you wrote:
| > 
| > Hmm, IIUC since ATM I not a Sourceforge project member I can
| > not write to the repository. I have just created a Sourceforge
| > account (whebisch), but I think that I can not commit before
| > somebody adds me to the project.
| > 
| 
| I have added you as an Axiom developer on SourceForge with write
| access to the CVS and SVN.

Thanks Bill!

| I think that (at least unofficially :) we should consider Gaby as
| the "master" of the SVN repository on SourceForge. So discussing
| commits with him prior to committing to trunk or to a branch for
| which you do not have primary responsibility would be a good idea.

so should I sing "I got the power"? :-/

| For experiments of the type you described in a previous message of
| "skipping boot directory" it might be less disruptive if you were
| to create your own branch via 'svn copy'. I would also like to
| work on this idea and being able to download your branch would
| make this easier. Perhaps there is still a chance that we can
| interest Gaby in going this route.

we can consider this under a configure flag --enable-boot/--disabe-boot.
However, the effect here is not just disabling a component, btu also
moving codes around.  I'll dig out how to accomplish that without
disturbance to better integration of src/boot to src/interp.

Many thanks!

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build improvements results
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From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > 
| > | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > | > Ralf, the reason the command line was slipt is that everyong on 
| > | > online reads gerbish to be -- I can't see whether the next paren
| > | > starts from where the previous ends.  All those reasons, why we format
| > | > codes :-)
| > | > 
| > | > Now, if this is a make bug, then it is really unfortunate. :-(
| > | > 
| > | 
| > | The following patch works for me (first one needs to run 'build-setup.sh'):
| > 
| > You have a "go" to commit it.
| > 
| 
| I tested version 165, version 167 introduced similar problem in boot
| Makefile, so I commited changes to both makefiles.

Great!  

Could you add a short description of the change in
lsp/Change.build-improvements?  Thanks!

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] boottocl
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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

[...]

| > I would prefer to eliminate "old" boot; but that is not something
| > I have a plan for in the immediate future.
| > 
| 
| Understood. In any case, you have my vote should you decide
| on one or the other (but not both). :-)

Thanks for the confidence.  

I hope I would not need it though :-)
It is important we have the debate -- followed by action!  I hope we do
do this in a way that people don't feel a "political" stance to it.

Tim, software  and software development is not just technical
collection of technical programs; I'm sure you know that :-)

-- Gaby



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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
To: "Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com>
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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Patches for Maxima on DoyenCD
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Alfredo,=20

On Monday, October 02, 2006 11:50 PM I wrote:
>=20
> >=20
> > > Also, did you get my email for last week reguarding a
> > > problem with Maxima output on the version of DoyenCD at
> > > http://doyen.sytes.net ?
> >=20
> > I do not know what to do about this...should I use another=20
> > version of Maxima or should I try to fix the regex that
> > controls this?
> >=20
>=20
> I took a look at this. I think it is due to a difference between
> the Clisp and GCL versions of lisp used to compile Maxima. (Clisp
> used on DoyenCD but GCL used on MathAction). In particular the
> removal of the $ is supposed to take place in the special Lisp
> code called 'mathaction-maxima-5.9.3.lisp' that is added to
> Maxima when it is called in 'maximaWrapper.py'. This is a modified
> version of the same Lisp code that is used to interface with
> TeXmacs. But this code does not seem correct for the character
> sequence generated by the Clisp version of Maxima. I can correct
> this but I also have to change the regex in ReplaceInlineMaxima
> so that it correctly indentifies input and output sections.
>=20
> I will send you the modifications later tonight.
>=20

Here are the patches:

[root@doyen LatexWiki]# cd ~
[root@doyen ~]# cd /var/lib/zope/Products/LatexWiki

The first one is a correction to the Maxima Lisp interface code.
Under GCL these extra \ $ characters are not generated so this
code was none functional. But it is required to correct the weird
behaviour of Maxima under Clisp.

[root@doyen LatexWiki]# diff -au mathaction-maxima-5.9.3.lisp_orig
mathaction-maxima-5.9.3.lisp
--- mathaction-maxima-5.9.3.lisp_orig   2006-10-03 02:21:18.134961500
-0400
+++ mathaction-maxima-5.9.3.lisp        2006-10-03 02:03:24.087837750
-0400
@@ -36,7 +36,7 @@
 (defun tex-stripdollar (sym)
   (or (symbolp sym) (return-from tex-stripdollar sym))
   (let* ((name (quote-% (print-invert-case sym)))
-      (name1 (if (memq (elt name 0) '(#\$ #\&)) (subseq name 1) name))
+      (name1 (if (memq (elt name 0) '(#\\ #\$)) (subseq name 2) name))
       (l (length name1)))
     (if (eql l 1) name1 (concatenate 'string "\\mathrm{" name1 "}"))))

The second one is required because of the first patch since the extra
\ $ is now eliminated. (That makes ReplaceInlineMaxima.py identical to
the version on MathAction.)

[root@doyen LatexWiki]# diff -au ReplaceInlineMaxima.py
ReplaceInlineMaxima.py_orig
--- ReplaceInlineMaxima.py_orig      2006-10-03 02:19:27.952075500 -0400
+++ ReplaceInlineMaxima.py           2006-10-03 02:05:50.012957500 -0400
@@ -21,8 +21,8 @@
         reConsts)
     maximaOutPattern =3D re.compile(
         #r'<latex>.*?black\}(.*?)</latex>'              #1 LaTeX
-        r'<latex>\\mbox{\\tt\\red\(\\\$\\mathrm{\\%(i\d+)}\)
\\black}(.*?)</latex>|'   #1 #2 Input
-        r'<latex>\\mbox{\\tt\\red\(\\\$\\mathrm{\\%(o\d+)}\)
\\black}(.*?)</latex>|'   #3 #4 Output
+        r'<latex>\\mbox{\\tt\\red\(\\mathrm{\\%(i\d+)}\)
\\black}(.*?)</latex>|'   #1 #2 Input
+        r'<latex>\\mbox{\\tt\\red\(\\mathrm{\\%(o\d+)}\)
\\black}(.*?)</latex>|'   #3 #4 Output
         r'stdin:((?:.(?!<latex>))*.)',  #5 Other stuff
         reConsts)

[root@doyen LatexWiki]#

Let me know if you have any trouble with these changes.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | I tested version 165, version 167 introduced similar problem in boot
> | Makefile, so I commited changes to both makefiles.
> 
> Great!  
> 
> Could you add a short description of the change in
> lsp/Change.build-improvements?  Thanks!
> 

Done.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
To: "Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com>
Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org
Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: Patches for Maxima on DoyenCD
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Alfredo,

On Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:56 AM I wrote:
> ...=20
> Here are the patches:
>=20
> [root@doyen LatexWiki]# cd ~
> [root@doyen ~]# cd /var/lib/zope/Products/LatexWiki
>=20
> The first one is a correction to the Maxima Lisp interface code.
> Under GCL these extra \ $ characters are not generated so this
> code was none functional. But it is required to correct the weird
> behaviour of Maxima under Clisp.
> ...

I think this is a better patch:
=20
[root@doyen LatexWiki]# diff -au mathaction-maxima-5.9.3.lisp_orig
mathaction-maxima-5.9.3.lisp
--- mathaction-maxima-5.9.3.lisp_orig   2006-10-03
02:21:18.134961500-0400
+++ mathaction-maxima-5.9.3.lisp        2006-10-03
02:03:24.087837750-0400
@@ -36,7 +36,7 @@
 (defun tex-stripdollar (sym)
   (or (symbolp sym) (return-from tex-stripdollar sym))
   (let* ((name (quote-% (print-invert-case sym)))
-      (name1 (if (memq (elt name 0) '(#\$ #\&)) (subseq name 1) name))
+      (name1
+          (if (and (gt (length name) 2) (equal (subseq name 0 2)
"\\$"))
+              (subseq name 2) name))
       (l (length name1)))
     (if (eql l 1) name1 (concatenate 'string "\\mathrm{" name1 "}"))))

--------

Regards,
Bill Page.



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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
To: "Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com>
Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org
Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: Patches for Maxima on DoyenCD
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Alfredo,

On Tuesday, October 03, 2006 5:50 AM I wrote:
...=20
> Here are the patches:
>=20
> [root@doyen LatexWiki]# cd ~
> [root@doyen ~]# cd /var/lib/zope/Products/LatexWiki
>=20
> The first one is a correction to the Maxima Lisp interface code.
> ...

Under GCL the extra \ character is not generated but under Clisp
with the version of Maxima on the DoyenCD an additional test is
required to correct this weird behaviour of names in Maxima.

So finally, here's a hack that should work on both GCL and Clisp:
=20
[page@axiom-developer LatexWiki]$ darcs diff *.lisp -u
--- old-latexwiki/LatexWiki/mathaction-maxima-5.9.3.lisp
2006-10-03 05:36:41.000000000 -0500
+++ new-latexwiki/LatexWiki/mathaction-maxima-5.9.3.lisp
2006-10-03 05:36:41.000000000 -0500
@@ -36,7 +36,8 @@
 (defun tex-stripdollar (sym)
   (or (symbolp sym) (return-from tex-stripdollar sym))
   (let* ((name (quote-% (print-invert-case sym)))
-      (name1 (if (memq (elt name 0) '(#\$ #\&)) (subseq name 1) name))
+      (name1 (if (eq (elt name 0) #\\) (subseq name 1) name))
+      (name1 (if (memq (elt name1 0) '(#\$ #\&)) (subseq name1 1)
name1))
       (l (length name1)))
     (if (eql l 1) name1 (concatenate 'string "\\mathrm{" name1 "}"))))


--------

Please give this a try in Doyen together with the patch in my
previous email for 'ReplaceInlineMaxima.py'.

Regards,
Bill Page.
=20



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
To: "Ben Collins-Sussman" <sussman@google.com>
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Ben,

I have been trying to understand why svnsync failed to
mirror the Axiom SourceForge repository and what we can do
about this situation.

First: I was successful at running an svnsync from a
local svn repository (obtained via rsync from SourceForge)
to another newly created local repository. The resulting
mirror had the very desirable property of being the same
size as the original - something that is not true when
using 'svk smerge'.

But I was not successful running svnsync directly from the
repository at SourceForge, presumably because SourceForge is
not yet running SVN 1.4 (among other possible problems at that
site). None the less, it seems that by using rsync to move the
repository files themselves to our axiom-developer.org server
and then access the files as a local repository using the new
version 1.4 of SVN, it is possible to get around this limitation.

However, when I tried to run this same process with the Google
Code repository as the target, I got the error message shown
below.

I can think of three possible explanations:

1) perhaps the pre_properties hook is not set up properly in
   our svn repository at Google?

2) perhaps this is another limitation of using svnsync with
   older versions of svn? (You said earlier that Google also
   was not yet running SVN 1.4)

3) or perhaps this is some system configuration problem such
   as a limitation on the size of the /tmp directory on the
   Google Code server?

What do you recommend? Do you think we should wait until Google
has had a chance to upgrade to SVN 1.4 and then try again?

Or should I give up on moving the whole repository and just
skim-off the most recent revision of trunk, copy trunk to our
branches/build-improvements, and then update it by skimming
off the top revision of that branch? I think that would be the
absolute minimum repository contents what would be useful for
us to maintain on the Google site. At least it would provide
our developers with a presumably more reliable alternative than
the existing SourceForge svn repository. Unfortunately I don't
think it would allow us to move our development process to the
Google environment. :-(

Regards,
Bill Page.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Page, Bill [mailto:Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca]=20
> Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 5:11 PM
> To: Ben Collins-Sussman
> Cc: axiom-dev; Gabriel Dos Reis; Bill Page
> Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
>=20
> Ben,
>=20
> I response to:
>=20
> $ svnsync init https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn
> file:///home/page/axiom-sf
> $ svnsync --non-interactive sync https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn=20
>=20
> After about an hour of processing I obtained the message:
>=20
>   svnsync: At least one property change failed; repository is=20
> unchanged
>   Committed revision 1.
>   Copied properties for revision 1.
>   Committed revision 2.
>   Copied properties for revision 2.
>=20
> and svnsync stopped.
>=20
> Do you have any idea what might have gone wrong?
>=20
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
>=20
>=20
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Ben Collins-Sussman [mailto:sussman@google.com]=20
> > Sent: Monday, October 02, 2006 10:47 AM
> > To: Bill Page
> > Cc: axiom-dev; Gabriel Dos Reis
> > Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re:=20
> Disk-quota Request
> >=20
> > On 10/1/06, Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:
> >=20
> > > Now, how do I use this at Google Code?
> > >
> >=20
> > svnsync can replicate any repository to any other, over any network
> > protocol.  So you'd do something like:
> >=20
> > # reset google repos to r0
> > # initialize google repos:
> > $ svnsync init https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn=20
> > file:///the/original/svn/repos
> > # push the local repos history up to the remote repos
> > $ svnsync --non-interactive sync https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn
> >=20
> > Note:  you can use svnsync to 'push' commits at googlecode,=20
> but at the
> > moment you can't use it to 'pull' commits down from googlecode,
> > because we've not yet upgraded googlecode to svn 1.4.  (Though we're
> > actively working on it.)  But the method above is a way of at least
> > initially populating your googlecode repository.
> >=20
> > Btw, I've just reset your repository back to revision 0.
> >=20
>=20



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On 10/3/06, Page, Bill <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:

> >   svnsync: At least one property change failed; repository is
> > unchanged

Sorry for not replying sooner.  This error message simply means you
don't have permission to change all of the revision-properties on the
googlecode repository.  You need to be a project owner to set
revision-props over the network (like svn:log, svn:author, etc.)



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Ben,

What is a "project owner"? Is it necessarily the one person
who created the repository in the first place? (In our case
that was Jose Alfredo Portes: doyenatccny.)

http://code.google.com/p/axiom

But I am also listed as an owner. See:

http://code.google.com/u/synthesis.anikast.ca

My Google user id is 'synthesis.anikast.ca'. This is the
user id that I am using when I perform the 'svnsynch'.

Notice also that svnsynch did succeed in processing the first
two revisions to the archive and transfer about a dozen smaller
files before it failed on revision 3 which was the main
revision that uploaded most of the files (included some large
files) to the SourceForge repository.

In any case, what can we do in order to obtain the necessary
permission to perform this transfer?

Regards,
Bill Page.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Collins-Sussman [mailto:sussman@google.com]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:59 PM
> To: bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca
> Cc: axiom-dev; Gabriel Dos Reis
> Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
>=20
> On 10/3/06, Page, Bill <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:
>=20
> > >   svnsync: At least one property change failed; repository is
> > > unchanged
>=20
> Sorry for not replying sooner.  This error message simply means you
> don't have permission to change all of the revision-properties on
> the googlecode repository.  You need to be a project owner to set
> revision-props over the network (like svn:log, svn:author, etc.)
>=20



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Ben,=20

On Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:12 PM I wrote:
> ...=20
> My Google user id is 'synthesis.anikast.ca'. This is the
> user id that I am using when I perform the 'svnsynch'.

I am sorry, your comment prompted me to look at the commit
messages that were sent to my email address. The commits from
my earlier attempt using 'svk smerge' clearly showed

  Author: synthesis.anikast.ca
  Date: Fri Sep 29 23:10:12 2006

But I notice that the most recent commits show

  Author: root
  Date: Wed Mar  6 14:11:37 2002

!!! I had mistakenly assumed that since it had performed some
commits, that it was using the same user id and password
squirrelled away in some cookie somewhere. But not so!

So it seems I must repeat the 'svnsych initialize' command
specifying:

  --username arg
  --password arg

---------

Sooner or later I am bound to get this thing right...

Thanks for the tip. I will give this another try.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Ben,

Further note: SVK prompted me to enter my user id and password,
but svnsnch did not even bother. I have not idea why it choose
'root' since I was not logged in to axiom-developer.org as root.

Anyway...

On Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:40 PM I wrote:
> ...=20
> So it seems I must repeat the 'svnsych initialize' command
> specifying:
>=20
>   --username arg
>   --password arg
>=20
> ---------
>=20
> Sooner or later I am bound to get this thing right...
>=20
> Thanks for the tip. I will give this another try.
>=20

Oh, why of course! :((  But why do I feel like "Charlie Brown"? ;))

$ svnsync init https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn \
  file:///home/page/axiom-sf --username 'synthesis.anikast.ca' \
  --password 'xxxxx'

svnsync: Cannot initialize a repository with content in it

--------
Arrrrgh!

Could you please, please set this turkey a third time...

Sorry.

Regards,
Bill Page.

PS. Surely there is some way to permit users to have more control
over their repositories without having to always be bothering the
"highly paid staff" ;) - a re-initialize repository button, perhaps?



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To: bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca
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svk is a separate client from svn, it only uses the svn network protocol.

svn and svnsync are both 'official' svn clients, and thus both use the
cached password in your ~/.subversion/auth/ area.  So that's why your
commits are working, no matter which of the two tools you're using.
:-)


On 10/3/06, Page, Bill <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:
> Ben,
>
> Further note: SVK prompted me to enter my user id and password,
> but svnsnch did not even bother. I have not idea why it choose
> 'root' since I was not logged in to axiom-developer.org as root.
>
> Anyway...
>
> On Tuesday, October 03, 2006 4:40 PM I wrote:
> > ...
> > So it seems I must repeat the 'svnsych initialize' command
> > specifying:
> >
> >   --username arg
> >   --password arg
> >
> > ---------
> >
> > Sooner or later I am bound to get this thing right...
> >
> > Thanks for the tip. I will give this another try.
> >
>
> Oh, why of course! :((  But why do I feel like "Charlie Brown"? ;))
>
> $ svnsync init https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn \
>   file:///home/page/axiom-sf --username 'synthesis.anikast.ca' \
>   --password 'xxxxx'
>
> svnsync: Cannot initialize a repository with content in it
>
> --------
> Arrrrgh!
>
> Could you please, please set this turkey a third time...
>
> Sorry.
>
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
>
> PS. Surely there is some way to permit users to have more control
> over their repositories without having to always be bothering the
> "highly paid staff" ;) - a re-initialize repository button, perhaps?
>



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Ben,=20

On Tuesday, October 03, 2006 8:22 PM you wrote:
> ...=20
> svn and svnsync are both 'official' svn clients, and thus both
> use the cached password in your ~/.subversion/auth/ area.  So
> that's why your commits are working, no matter which of the two
> tools you're using. :-)
>=20

??? But, but ... my commits are not working. :-(

'svnsync' did *not* use my cached user id and password.

It seems to think my user id is 'root'. I don't see why it
committed anything at all since as far as I know we don't
have any developer on Google called 'root'. I would have
thought it would reject the entire command - not process
just the first two commits and then quite.

What's going on?

Confused, frustrated ...

Bill Page.


> ...
> >
> > $ svnsync init https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn \
> >   file:///home/page/axiom-sf --username 'synthesis.anikast.ca' \
> >   --password 'xxxxx'
> >
> > svnsync: Cannot initialize a repository with content in it
> >
> > --------
> > Arrrrgh!
> >
> > Could you please, please set this turkey a third time...
> >



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Bill,

I believe that Alfredo uses 'root'.

t



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On Tuesday, October 03, 2006 8:33 PM Tim Daly wrote:
>=20
> I believe that Alfredo uses 'root'.
>=20

No Alfredo Portes uses 'doyenatccny' as his Google account.
And he has his own account on axiom-developer.org. I don't
see any connection with what I have been trying to do.

Regards,
Bill Page.




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> [root@doyen LatexWiki]# cd ~
> [root@doyen ~]# cd /var/lib/zope/Products/LatexWiki
> 
> The first one is a correction to the Maxima Lisp interface code.

sorry, i saw this posted by alfredo.
i guess it was while running from a doyen CD.

t



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Alfredo,=20

It's good to hear from you!

On Tuesday, October 03, 2006 8:56 PM you wrote:
>=20
> My computer at home was "bugging out" (no other words to express
> it :-s), so I was not able to get it so you could add your content
> in doyen.sytes.net. I am currently in CCNY working on it.

Those things happen... (and happen, and happen :)

I'm glad you are still getting a chance to work on it.

I spent some time today learning how to use the DoyenCD to
directly "clone" another DoyenCD. Actually it is pretty simple.

1) All you need is to copy the entire contents of the /boot
   directory (and *only* this directory) to some other place,
   say '/dev/hdb/tmp-boot' where it is editable (preferable a
   Linux partition on the hard disk, but smbfs mount also seems
   to work.

2) Set the PATH like this:

   cd /dev/hdb/tmp-boot
   export PATH=3D./tools:$PATH

   Then just use 'mo2dir' to expand the module file, e.g.
   'base/var.mo' into another temporary directory, say
   '/dev/hdb/tmp-var'.=20

3) Apply the diffs from the actually /var directory (where
   zope really lives) to '/dev/hdb/tmp-var',

4) then zip it back up again as 'var.mo' using 'dir2mo'

5) and replace the module file in '/dev/hdb/tmp-boot/base'

6) Now create the iso CD image using 'make_iso.sh', et voila.
=20
>=20
> Your fixes to Maxima worked like a charm.

Great. I also experimented with them by making a clone
by the above method.

One thing I noticed is that after getting this to work,
we should also run

   http://local-host/.../upgradeAll

to re-generate all of the pages. When I did this I discovered
a problem with the 'AxiomLanguage' page because the LaTeX
command \axiomType is not defined in LatexTemplate causes a
LaTeX error. It needs

  \def\axiomType#1{{\bf #1}}

There are probably some other missing Axiom-required LaTeX
commands needed in LatexTemplate. Take a look in

  http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/LatexTemplate

for any other missing ones that you find.

> I am working on adding Sage right now. I would like if you
> can tell me the steps to add it (or the files to modify).
> I am trying just to modify the necessary files in latexwiki,
> so I dont brake the current setup.

I have attached a patch file to this email with the
necessary changes. My first attempt to apply this patches
found some simple edit conflicts which will have to be
resolved - mostly involving difference in executable
paths as we expected. If you get stuck, just let me know.

>=20
> Also if you can send me the content you would like to
> add or put it in axiom-developer, maybe that will be
> a quick solution.

I would recommend that we include the following pages:

  http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AboutSage
  http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/SandBoxSage
  http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/SandBoxSagePamphlet

> See if I can have this CD in couple hours.
>=20

Wonderful. I'll be here in my office for at least another
hour, then I will have to check with you in the morning.

Cheers,
Bill Page.

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On 10/3/06, Page, Bill <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:

> PS. Surely there is some way to permit users to have more control
> over their repositories without having to always be bothering the
> "highly paid staff" ;) - a re-initialize repository button, perhaps?
>

Yeah, we're working on that feature.  :-)

I just reset your repository.

And ... see my private mail ... I verified that indeed, I was able to
use svnsync to push my own local repository up to a newly-created
googlecode repository (http://code.google.com/p/effrecipes)

If you try again with svnsync, keep a careful transcript of everything
you do.  Do *not* use the --no-interactive switch.  I want to see
exactly how/when you get prompted for info.



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Ben,=20

On Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:48 PM you wrote:
> ...=20
> I just reset your repository.
>

Ok. Thanks.
=20
> ...=20
> If you try again with svnsync, keep a careful transcript of
> everything you do.

Ok. I will.

> Do *not* use the --no-interactive switch.  I want to see
> exactly how/when you get prompted for info.
>

Good point. I did use --no-interactive last time. It's not
going to prompt me again after initial authorization right?
So I just need to run the 'svnsync init --no-interactive'.
The actually 'sync' step is likely to take a very long
time, so I would prefer to run it nohup unattended.

How can I reliably reset the subversion authorization cache?

Regards,
Bill Page.=20



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Ben,

What I did was first of all mv the contents of

  mv .subversion/auth/svn.simple/* ~

and

  mv .subversion/auth/svn.servers/* ~

to create the situation where subversion's auth cache
had not been previously initialized. If you want, I
can send you copies of the "certificates" that I found
in these directories. They indicate that indeed subversion
had remember both my Google account and password as weil
as the server information for both Google and SourceForge.

I left the auth and the /svn.* directories in place (empty)
since the file dates indicated they had been created about
the time I first installed and used svn. I hopt that this
"surgery" was the right thing to do.

Then I ran 'svnsync init; like this:

[page@axiom-developer page]$ svnsync init
https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn file
:///home/page/axiom-sf
Error validating server certificate for
'https://axiom.googlecode.com:443':
 - The certificate is not issued by a trusted authority. Use the
   fingerprint to validate the certificate manually!
Certificate information:
 - Hostname: *.googlecode.com
 - Valid: from Jun 23 16:05:41 2006 GMT until Jun 21 11:45:36 2008 GMT
 - Issuer: Certification Services Division, Thawte Consulting cc, Cape
Town, Western Cape, ZA
 - Fingerprint:
89:87:5e:ca:0b:03:d2:83:db:7b:3f:20:5d:d0:76:c7:76:6b:cb:b2
(R)eject, accept (t)emporarily or accept (p)ermanently? p
svnsync: PROPFIND request failed on '/svn'
svnsync: PROPFIND of '/svn': Could not read status line: Secure
connection truncated (https://axiom.googlecode.com)
[page@axiom-developer page]$

----------

It looks different than your result. I got the PROPFIND request
failed message immediately after answering 'p' to the prompt.
And that was the end of the story.

Is "Could not read status line: Secure connection truncated"
a transient error of some kind? Or is there something wrong
with https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn ? Or something wrong
with what I am doing?

I really do not understand why I am having so much trouble
with subversion. :-( I do feel like I am making a very serious
effort to try to make it work but getting nowhere.

Regards,
Bill Page.

Raw console log follows:

... output before this line scrolled from memory ...

This is the .subversion/config file:


### This file configures various client-side behaviors.
###
### The commented-out examples below are intended to demonstrate
### how to use this file.

### Section for authentication and authorization customizations.
# [auth]
### Set store-passwords to 'no' to avoid storing passwords in the
### auth/ area of your config directory.  It defaults to 'yes'.
### Note that this option only prevents saving of *new* passwords;
### it doesn't invalidate existing passwords.  (To do that, remove
### the cache files by hand as described in the Subversion book.)
# store-passwords =3D no
### Set store-auth-creds to 'no' to avoid storing any subversion
### credentials in the auth/ area of your config directory.
### It defaults to 'yes'.  Note that this option only prevents
### saving of *new* credentials;  it doesn't invalidate existing
### caches.  (To do that, remove the cache files by hand.)
# store-auth-creds =3D no

### Section for configuring external helper applications.
### Set editor to the command used to invoke your text editor.
###   This will override the environment variables that Subversion
###   examines by default to find this information ($EDITOR,
###   et al).
### Set diff-cmd to the absolute path of your 'diff' program.
###   This will override the compile-time default, which is to use
###   Subversion's internal diff implementation.
### Set diff3-cmd to the absolute path of your 'diff3' program.
###   This will override the compile-time default, which is to use
###   Subversion's internal diff3 implementation.
### Set diff3-has-program-arg to 'true' or 'yes' if your 'diff3'
###   program accepts the '--diff-program' option.
# [helpers]
# editor-cmd =3D editor (vi, emacs, notepad, etc.)
# diff-cmd =3D diff_program (diff, gdiff, etc.)
# diff3-cmd =3D diff3_program (diff3, gdiff3, etc.)
# diff3-has-program-arg =3D [true | false]

### Section for configuring tunnel agents.
# [tunnels]
### Configure svn protocol tunnel schemes here.  By default, only
### the 'ssh' scheme is defined.  You can define other schemes to
### be used with 'svn+scheme://hostname/path' URLs.  A scheme
### definition is simply a command, optionally prefixed by an
### environment variable name which can override the command if it
### is defined.  The command (or environment variable) may contain
### arguments, using standard shell quoting for arguments with
### spaces.  The command will be invoked as:
###   <command> <hostname> svnserve -t
### (If the URL includes a username, then the hostname will be
### passed to the tunnel agent as <user>@<hostname>.)  If the
### built-in ssh scheme were not predefined, it could be defined
### as:
# ssh =3D $SVN_SSH ssh
### If you wanted to define a new 'rsh' scheme, to be used with
### 'svn+rsh:' URLs, you could do so as follows:
# rsh =3D rsh
### Or, if you wanted to specify a full path and arguments:
# rsh =3D /path/to/rsh -l myusername
### On Windows, if you are specifying a full path to a command,
### use a forward slash (/) or a paired backslash (\\) as the
### path separator.  A single backslash will be treated as an
### escape for the following character.

### Section for configuring miscelleneous Subversion options.
# [miscellany]
### Set global-ignores to a set of whitespace-delimited globs
### which Subversion will ignore in its 'status' output.
# global-ignores =3D *.o *.lo *.la #*# .*.rej *.rej .*~ *~ .#* .DS_Store
### Set log-encoding to the default encoding for log messages
# log-encoding =3D latin1
### Set use-commit-times to make checkout/update/switch/revert
### put last-committed timestamps on every file touched.
# use-commit-times =3D yes
### Set enable-auto-props to 'yes' to enable automatic properties
### for 'svn add' and 'svn import', it defaults to 'no'.
### Automatic properties are defined in the section 'auto-props'.
# enable-auto-props =3D yes

### Section for configuring automatic properties.
### The format of the entries is:
###   file-name-pattern =3D propname[=3Dvalue][;propname[=3Dvalue]...]
### The file-name-pattern can contain wildcards (such as '*' and
### '?').  All entries which match will be applied to the file.
### Note that auto-props functionality must be enabled, which
### is typically done by setting the 'enable-auto-props' option.
# [auto-props]
# *.c =3D svn:eol-style=3Dnative
# *.cpp =3D svn:eol-style=3Dnative
# *.h =3D svn:eol-style=3Dnative
# *.dsp =3D svn:eol-style=3DCRLF
# *.dsw =3D svn:eol-style=3DCRLF
# *.sh =3D svn:eol-style=3Dnative;svn:executable
# *.txt =3D svn:eol-style=3Dnative
# *.png =3D svn:mime-type=3Dimage/png
# *.jpg =3D svn:mime-type=3Dimage/jpeg
# Makefile =3D svn:eol-style=3Dnative

[page@axiom-developer .subversion]$ ls
auth  config  README.txt  servers
[page@axiom-developer .subversion]$ grep 'synthesis' *
[page@axiom-developer .subversion]$ grep 'synthesis' */*
[page@axiom-developer .subversion]$ cd auth
[page@axiom-developer auth]$ ls
svn.simple  svn.ssl.server  svn.username
[page@axiom-developer auth]$ grep 'synthesis' */*
svn.simple/962080ce633503d3c781a19be5a57c6d:synthesis.anikast.ca

[page@axiom-developer auth]$ cd svn.simple
[page@axiom-developer svn.simple]$ ls
962080ce633503d3c781a19be5a57c6d
[page@axiom-developer svn.simple]$ cat *
K 8
passtype
V 6
simple
K 8
password
V 8
s9r9n8p8
K 15
svn:realmstring
V 68
<https://axiom.googlecode.com:443> Google Code Subversion Repository
K 8
username
V 20
synthesis.anikast.ca
END

[page@axiom-developer svn.simple]$ ls
962080ce633503d3c781a19be5a57c6d
[page@axiom-developer svn.simple]$ mv * ~
[page@axiom-developer svn.simple]$ ls
[page@axiom-developer svn.simple]$ cd ..

[page@axiom-developer auth]$ ls
svn.simple  svn.ssl.server  svn.username
[page@axiom-developer auth]$ ls */*
svn.ssl.server/6dbbdbd4b65b578204189cb3a6f4b9ae
svn.ssl.server/dc5a395eac239ee84380e60694cec8f1
[page@axiom-developer auth]$ cd svn.ssl.server
[page@axiom-developer svn.ssl.server]$ ls -l *
-rw-rw-r--    1 page     page         1446 Sep 27 05:07
6dbbdbd4b65b578204189cb3a6f4b9ae
-rw-rw-r--    1 page     page         1125 Sep 27 04:33
dc5a395eac239ee84380e60694cec8f1

[page@axiom-developer svn.ssl.server]$ cat *
K 10
ascii_cert
V 1340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K 8
failures
V 1
8
K 15
svn:realmstring
V 32
https://axiom.googlecode.com:443
END
K 10
ascii_cert
V 1020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3D=3D
K 8
failures
V 1
8
K 15
svn:realmstring
V 31
https://svn.sourceforge.net:443
END

[page@axiom-developer svn.ssl.server]$ ls
6dbbdbd4b65b578204189cb3a6f4b9ae  dc5a395eac239ee84380e60694cec8f1
[page@axiom-developer svn.ssl.server]$ mv * ~
[page@axiom-developer svn.ssl.server]$ cd ~

-------------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Page, Bill [mailto:Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca]=20
> Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:55 PM
> To: Ben Collins-Sussman
> Cc: axiom-dev; Gabriel Dos Reis; bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca
> Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
>=20
> Ben,=20
>=20
> On Tuesday, October 03, 2006 10:48 PM you wrote:
> > ...=20
> > I just reset your repository.
> >
>=20
> Ok. Thanks.
> =20
> > ...=20
> > If you try again with svnsync, keep a careful transcript of
> > everything you do.
>=20
> Ok. I will.
>=20
> > Do *not* use the --no-interactive switch.  I want to see
> > exactly how/when you get prompted for info.
> >
>=20
> Good point. I did use --no-interactive last time. It's not
> going to prompt me again after initial authorization right?
> So I just need to run the 'svnsync init --no-interactive'.
> The actually 'sync' step is likely to take a very long
> time, so I would prefer to run it nohup unattended.
>=20
> How can I reliably reset the subversion authorization cache?
>=20
> Regards,
> Bill Page.=20
>=20



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From: "Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com>
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Hi Bill,

> I spent some time today learning how to use the DoyenCD to
> directly "clone" another DoyenCD. Actually it is pretty simple.
>
> 1) All you need is to copy the entire contents of the /boot
>    directory (and *only* this directory) to some other place,
>    say '/dev/hdb/tmp-boot' where it is editable (preferable a
>    Linux partition on the hard disk, but smbfs mount also seems
>    to work.
>
> 2) Set the PATH like this:
>
>    cd /dev/hdb/tmp-boot
>    export PATH=./tools:$PATH
>
>    Then just use 'mo2dir' to expand the module file, e.g.
>    'base/var.mo' into another temporary directory, say
>    '/dev/hdb/tmp-var'.
>
> 3) Apply the diffs from the actually /var directory (where
>    zope really lives) to '/dev/hdb/tmp-var',
>
> 4) then zip it back up again as 'var.mo' using 'dir2mo'
>
> 5) and replace the module file in '/dev/hdb/tmp-boot/base'
>
> 6) Now create the iso CD image using 'make_iso.sh', et voila.

Waoo, really nice. I always wanted to used th tools scripts, but
having the machine it was usually easier for me to just create a new
iso. This can be a good idea to give users a basic Doyen CD that they
can modify without starting from scratch.

> One thing I noticed is that after getting this to work,
> we should also run
>
>    http://local-host/.../upgradeAll
>
> to re-generate all of the pages. When I did this I discovered
> a problem with the 'AxiomLanguage' page because the LaTeX
> command \axiomType is not defined in LatexTemplate causes a
> LaTeX error. It needs
>   \def\axiomType#1{{\bf #1}}
>
> There are probably some other missing Axiom-required LaTeX
> commands needed in LatexTemplate. Take a look in
>
>   http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/LatexTemplate
>
> for any other missing ones that you find.

Did not this feature. I saw the LatexTemplate file, but never knew if
all the environments were required.

Regards,

Alfredo



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From: "Ben Collins-Sussman" <sussman@google.com>
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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
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On 10/3/06, Page, Bill <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:

> I left the auth and the /svn.* directories in place (empty)
> since the file dates indicated they had been created about
> the time I first installed and used svn. I hopt that this
> "surgery" was the right thing to do.

Yes, you did the right thing.  Client authentication caching is
discussed in chapter 6 of the svnbook.  You can just 'rm -rf
~/.subversion/auth/svn.simple/*' anytime you want to clear the cache.


> [page@axiom-developer page]$ svnsync init
> https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn file
> :///home/page/axiom-sf
> Error validating server certificate for
> 'https://axiom.googlecode.com:443':
>  - The certificate is not issued by a trusted authority. Use the
>    fingerprint to validate the certificate manually!
> Certificate information:
>  - Hostname: *.googlecode.com
>  - Valid: from Jun 23 16:05:41 2006 GMT until Jun 21 11:45:36 2008 GMT
>  - Issuer: Certification Services Division, Thawte Consulting cc, Cape
> Town, Western Cape, ZA
>  - Fingerprint:
> 89:87:5e:ca:0b:03:d2:83:db:7b:3f:20:5d:d0:76:c7:76:6b:cb:b2
> (R)eject, accept (t)emporarily or accept (p)ermanently? p
> svnsync: PROPFIND request failed on '/svn'
> svnsync: PROPFIND of '/svn': Could not read status line: Secure
> connection truncated (https://axiom.googlecode.com)

Hm, that actually looks like a server crash!  I'll investigate.

However, I do see a problem:  it's a bug in my function to reset the
repository.  While it removes all revisions back to revision 0, it
doesn't actually remove the old rev-props attached to revision 0!
Witness all the svn:svnsync* revision properties left behind by your
last attempt to run svnsync:

$ svn proplist --verbose --revprop -r0 http://axiom.googlecode.com/svn
Unversioned properties on revision 0:
  svn:sync-from-uuid : 54bea96e-1511-0410-8851-aaeae44645fa
  svn:sync-currently-copying : 3
  svn:sync-last-merged-rev : 2
  svn:date : 2006-04-10T15:40:55.446251Z
  svn:sync-from-url : file:///home/page/axiom-sf


I've worked around the problem by manually running 'svn propdel' to
delete each of these, so now your r0 is all clear of metadata.  (And
I'll get to fixing the reset() bug too.)

I suspect the problems may have come from svnsync just dying when it
was running into its own obsolete/stale revision-props from previous
runs.  Try doing the 'svnsync init' again, and see if it works.


> I really do not understand why I am having so much trouble
> with subversion. :-( I do feel like I am making a very serious
> effort to try to make it work but getting nowhere.

Have patience!  You're on the bleeding edge here, literally.  :-)

While subversion itself is old and stable, svnsync is a brand new
tool, *just* released a couple of weeks ago.  And googlecode is a
brand new subversion service running a newly written
repository-backend implementation.  I was able to use svnsync to push
my own project's history up to googlecode, and therefore you should be
able to as well.  However, bleeding edge is still bleeding edge... as
you can see, we're discovering little snags and buglets here and
there.  Thanks for being such a great tester!



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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
To: "'Ben Collins-Sussman'" <sussman@google.com>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
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Ben,

Hmmm, "bleeding edge" you say? I think I'm going to need a
transfusion soon ... ;)

Here's the latest:

~=3D~=3D~=3D PuTTY log 2006.10.04 11:52:26 =3D~=3D~=3D~
[page@axiom-developer page]$ svnsync init
  https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn file:///home/page/axiom-sf
Authentication realm: <https://axiom.googlecode.com:443>
 Google Code Subversion Repository
Password for 'page':=20
Authentication realm: <https://axiom.googlecode.com:443>
 Google Code Subversion Repository
Username: synthesis.anikast.ca
Password for 'synthesis.anikast.ca':=20
Copied properties for revision 0.
[page@axiom-developer page]$ svnsync sync
  https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn
Committed revision 1.
Copied properties for revision 1.
Committed revision 2.
Copied properties for revision 2.

--------

After about 1 hour the console session was unexpectedly
interrupted by my host computer (probably a connection
time- out because of no console traffic).

I restarted with the command:

[page@axiom-developer page]$ nohup svnsync sync
  https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn &

After about an hour I saw the synsync process had terminated.
nohup.out contains only:

svnsync: Caught signal

--------

<sigh> So I restarted it again:

[page@axiom-developer page]$ nohup svnsync sync
  https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn &

And about an hour later again svnsync terminated. In the log
I see:

svnsync: PUT of
'/svn/!svn/wrk/29cc7f0b-011f-0410-b261-d5f055a290b5/trunk/axiom/src/input=
/tk
not.input.pamphlet':
 403 Forbidden (https://axiom.googlecode.com)

----------

I am patient but you can guess my conclusions from my experience
so far.

We can either continue debugging this process or wait until someone
else does since it seems unlikely that decision to use subversion
(and associated tools) will be changed just because two of the Axiom
developers can't seem to get it to work. :-(

So I remain: at your service. ;)

What's next?

Regards,
Bill Page.




> -----Original Message-----
> From: Ben Collins-Sussman [mailto:sussman@google.com]=20
> Sent: October 4, 2006 10:46 AM
> To: bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca
> Cc: axiom-dev; Gabriel Dos Reis
> Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota
> Request
>=20
>=20
> On 10/3/06, Page, Bill <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:
> ...
> > svnsync: PROPFIND request failed on '/svn'
> > svnsync: PROPFIND of '/svn': Could not read status line:
> > Secure connection truncated (https://axiom.googlecode.com)
>=20
> Hm, that actually looks like a server crash!  I'll investigate.
>=20
> However, I do see a problem:  it's a bug in my function to reset
> the repository.  While it removes all revisions back to revision
> 0, it doesn't actually remove the old rev-props attached to
> revision 0! Witness all the svn:svnsync* revision properties left
> behind by your last attempt to run svnsync:
>=20
> $ svn proplist --verbose --revprop -r0 http://axiom.googlecode.com/svn
> Unversioned properties on revision 0:
>   svn:sync-from-uuid : 54bea96e-1511-0410-8851-aaeae44645fa
>   svn:sync-currently-copying : 3
>   svn:sync-last-merged-rev : 2
>   svn:date : 2006-04-10T15:40:55.446251Z
>   svn:sync-from-url : file:///home/page/axiom-sf
>=20
> I've worked around the problem by manually running 'svn propdel'
> to delete each of these, so now your r0 is all clear of metadata.
> (And I'll get to fixing the reset() bug too.)
>=20
> I suspect the problems may have come from svnsync just dying when
> it was running into its own obsolete/stale revision-props from
> previous runs.  Try doing the 'svnsync init' again, and see if
> it works.
>=20
> > I really do not understand why I am having so much trouble
> > with subversion. :-( I do feel like I am making a very serious
> > effort to try to make it work but getting nowhere.
>=20
> Have patience!  You're on the bleeding edge here, literally.  :-)
>=20
> While subversion itself is old and stable, svnsync is a brand new
> tool, *just* released a couple of weeks ago.  And googlecode is a
> brand new subversion service running a newly written repository-
> backend implementation.  I was able to use svnsync to push my own
> project's history up to googlecode, and therefore you should be
> able to as well.  However, bleeding edge is still bleeding edge...
> as you can see, we're discovering little snags and buglets here
> and there.  Thanks for being such a great tester!
>=20
=20





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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

[...]

| We can either continue debugging this process or wait until someone
| else does since it seems unlikely that decision to use subversion
| (and associated tools) will be changed just because two of the Axiom
| developers can't seem to get it to work. :-(

I know I should help you here -- but I'm overbooked at the moment,
plus a sick baby, I've got only that much time left.  :-( Sorry.

I hope this will be resolved soon.  (Could you refresh my memory about
what was wrong with copying the repo with SVK?)

-- Gaby



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
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Gaby,

On October 4, 2006 6:19 PM you wrote:
> 
> "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:
> 
> [...]
> 
> | We can either continue debugging this process or wait until
> | someone else does since it seems unlikely that decision to
> | use subversion (and associated tools) will be changed just
> | because two of the Axiom developers can't seem to get it to
> | work. :-(
> 
> I know I should help you here -- but I'm overbooked at the moment,
> plus a sick baby, I've got only that much time left.  :-( Sorry.
>

Not a problem. Don't worry. I hope your baby is ok. We've got to
take care of reality first - then we play. :-)
 
> I hope this will be resolved soon.  (Could you refresh my memory
> about what was wrong with copying the repo with SVK?)
> 

'svk smerge' worked except the size of the mirror created by
smerge is approximately twice as large as the original archive.
(Over 300 Mbytes while the original is only about 160Mbytes.) I
guess (but I do not know) that this might be because svk does not
preserve the "copy" structure of the original archive and ends
up duplicating a lot more code unnecessarily.

Google has set our space quota at 250 Mbytes, so the 'svk smerge'
job failed with an "over the quota" error message without even
creating the build-improvements branch.

'svnsync' works with the Axiom repository locally and produces
a mirror that is the same size as the original.

(Of course, on compatibility architectures rsync does the same
thing and faster, so that isn't such an incredible result. :)

The problems that I have been having with svnsync seem more like
network/webserver issues than archive issues as such. This is the
same kind of problem that we have been having with SourceForge,
which makes we wonder about the quality and robustness of the
svn http/webdav interface. The kind of "tight" integration with
Apache that subversion uses might sound good at the nuts and
bolts level, but in practice source code management systems like
darcs and mercurial seem to do quite well without this and as a
result are MUCH easier to set up and manage.

  -- just my two-bytes.

Bill Page.


Regards,
Bill Page.





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On 10/4/06, Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:

> The problems that I have been having with svnsync seem more like
> network/webserver issues than archive issues as such. This is the
> same kind of problem that we have been having with SourceForge,
> which makes we wonder about the quality and robustness of the
> svn http/webdav interface. The kind of "tight" integration with
> Apache that subversion uses might sound good at the nuts and
> bolts level, but in practice source code management systems like
> darcs and mercurial seem to do quite well without this and as a
> result are MUCH easier to set up and manage.
>

Actually, the problem with HTTP/webdav isn't robustness, it's just
speed.  Let's face it:  a stateless protocol is a *bad idea* for
version control.  :-)   The stateful svnserve server/protocol is much,
much faster.  Nevertheless, there are some perks for using Apache:  it
integrates with every authn system out there, it logs things
beautifully, it goes through firewalls, it can do certs, and you can
even mount your repository as a network share.  It's all about
tradeoffs.

Looking at your errors, I'm guessing that revision 3 of your
repository is some monstrously huge thing, and that it's taking hours
to commit... and then poof, you lose the connection or something.
That's not good.  We obviously need to add a --verbose option to
'svnsync' so that we can see what path it's pushing around, much like
one sees with dump/load.

Anyway, yeah, r2 is the latest in the repository, and svnsync left
markers saying what it was doing:

$ svn proplist --verbose --revprop -r0 http://axiom.googlecode.com/svn/
Unversioned properties on revision 0:
  svn:sync-from-uuid : 54bea96e-1511-0410-8851-aaeae44645fa
  svn:sync-currently-copying : 3
  svn:sync-last-merged-rev : 2
  svn:sync-from-url : file:///home/page/axiom-sf
  svn:date : 2006-04-10T15:40:55.446251Z

Because svn has atomic commits, and because svnsync recorded what it
was doing, in *theory* you should just be able to restart the sync,
and have it pick up where it left off.  Sure enough, it seems like you
did that.  So the only remaining mystery is:  why did the http PUT of
that one file give an authz error?   It might be a bug in our custom
authorization module, but I'm not sure.

Can we try two things:

* try running sync a couple more times, see if it ever successfuly commits r3.

* put a tar.gz of the repository somewhere, so I can play with it
myself?  I'd like to try pushing the history into a scratch project
myself, to see if I can reproduce that 403 error.

(As a last ditch thing, i can also manually 'svnadmin load' your
history directly to our servers if we decide to give up on svnsync...
we've already done that for emacspeak and some other projects.)



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
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Ben,

On October 4, 2006 10:12 PM you wrote:
> ... 
> Looking at your errors, I'm guessing that revision 3 of your
> repository is some monstrously huge thing,

It's big with a few monstrously huge files (the infamous zips
directory).

> and that it's taking hours to commit...

As I recall 'svk smerge' it took about an hour to commit rev 3
including the zips directory and proceeded to the point of hitting
the quota limit after a few more hours. Even while using svk
it was interrupted a few times with http/webdav related errors
like

   502 Bad Gateway

But I was able to restart it.

> and then poof, you lose the connection or something.

That happened once (the first time) in my most recent attempt
to populate the repository.

> That's not good.  We obviously need to add a --verbose option
> to 'svnsync' so that we can see what path it's pushing around,
> much like one sees with dump/load.

That would be real nice.

> 
> Anyway, yeah, r2 is the latest in the repository, and svnsync
> left markers saying what it was doing:
> 
> $ svn proplist --verbose --revprop -r0 
> http://axiom.googlecode.com/svn/
> Unversioned properties on revision 0:
>   svn:sync-from-uuid : 54bea96e-1511-0410-8851-aaeae44645fa
>   svn:sync-currently-copying : 3
>   svn:sync-last-merged-rev : 2
>   svn:sync-from-url : file:///home/page/axiom-sf
>   svn:date : 2006-04-10T15:40:55.446251Z
> 
> Because svn has atomic commits, and because svnsync recorded what
> it was doing, in *theory* you should just be able to restart the
> sync, and have it pick up where it left off.  Sure enough, it
> seems like you did that.

Twice. With different error results each time. My first repeat
(using nohup to avoid the disconnnect problem) I got:

  svnsync: Caught signal

What was that? Did someone abort the process? What signal?

The second repeat (same as the first repeat) yielded:

  403 Forbidden

> So the only remaining mystery is:  why did the http PUT of
> that one file give an authz error?   It might be a bug in our
> custom authorization module, but I'm not sure.
>

Perhaps a consequence of the previous two failed attempts?
 
> Can we try two things:
> 
> * try running sync a couple more times, see if it ever 
> successfuly commits r3.
>

Ok.
 
> * put a tar.gz of the repository somewhere, so I can play with
> it myself?  I'd like to try pushing the history into a scratch
> project myself, to see if I can reproduce that 403 error.
>

Great. Thanks for your help.

Why not just rsync our repository directly from SourceForge:

  $export RSYNC_PROXY=rsync-svn.sourceforge.net:80
  $mkdir -p ~/axiom-sf
  $rsync -v -a rsync-svn-a::svn/axiom/* ~/axiom-sf

Then just access it as a local repository

  file:///~/axiom-sf
 
> (As a last ditch thing, i can also manually 'svnadmin load'
> your history directly to our servers if we decide to give up on
> svnsync... we've already done that for emacspeak and some other
> projects.)
> 

You say when you've had enough trying to make this work.

Of course our primary objective here is just to get the Axiom
repository on Google!

Regards,
Bill Page.





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> > Looking at your errors, I'm guessing that revision 3 of your
> > repository is some monstrously huge thing,
> 
> It's big with a few monstrously huge files (the infamous zips
> directory).

monstrously huge?
the largest file in zips is 20M.
i have MS Word documents that big.
i regularly download CD and DVD images these days.
any system that considers 20M to be 'huge' needs a rethink.

t



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On 10/5/06, root <daly@axiom-developer.org> wrote:

> any system that considers 20M to be 'huge' needs a rethink.
>

The term "monstrously huge" is being used in a relative sense, i.e. 80
megs of .zip files is big compared to a typical tree of source code.

There's no limit to the size of files that can be uploaded/downloaded.
 It's HTTP.  The whole system was designed to be 'streamy' with large
files.

CVS, on the other hand, requires that the server hold the entire
tree-being-checked-out in RAM.  If you do a checkout of 400 megs of
source, your server better have 400 megs of RAM to hold it.  If 5
people are checking out that source tree at once, your server better
have 2 gigs.  Not so scalable.



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Ben,

> 
> On October 4, 2006 10:12 PM you wrote:
>  
> > Can we try two things:
> > 
> > * try running sync a couple more times, see if it ever 
> > successfuly commits r3.
> >

On October 5, 2006 9:10 AM I wrote:
> 
> Ok.
>  

Well, a little over an hour ago I did

 $ nohup svnsync sync https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn &

for the third time. This time it seems to be running. No new
error messsages. Now at revison 8. See commit email attached.
Only a 170 more to go... (almost all much smaller that r3).

I am keeping my fingers crossed (so it is hard to type ;)

Regards,
Bill Page.

-----Original Message-----
From: codesite-noreply@google.com [mailto:codesite-noreply@google.com] 
Sent: October 5, 2006 10:47 AM
To: bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca
Subject: [axiom commit] r8 - branches/daly/axiom/src/interp


Author: daly
Date: Tue Jan  4 16:04:14 2005
New Revision: 8

Added:
   branches/daly/axiom/src/interp/
   branches/daly/axiom/src/interp/HowItWorks.pamphlet   (contents, props
changed)

Log:
Axiom 3.0 Beta (January 2005)





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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Remove postprop.lisp.pamphlet?
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AFAICS postprop.lisp.pamphlet is unused: it is on list of files
to autoload, but it contains only top-level forms evaluated for
side effects (no variables or functions) so I think there is
no way to trigger autoloading it. Moreover, the data in this
file looks like older copy of data in property.lisp.pamphlet.

IMHO having postprop.lisp.pamphlet in source archive only causes
confusion -- in fact I spent few hours trying to find out how
Lisp property |special| (initialized in postprop.lisp.pamphlet) may be
accesed and finally noticed that Lisp property |special| is unused
and that relevant code uses Lisp property SPECIAL defined in
property.lisp.pamphlet. For better fun Boot code contains data 
structure called propety and there is a Boot property special...

So I think that the best way is to eradicate all traces of
postprop.lisp.pamphlet in current sources (we have version control,
so interested people can look there for obsolete code).

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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> > any system that considers 20M to be 'huge' needs a rethink.
> >
> 
> The term "monstrously huge" is being used in a relative sense, i.e. 80
> megs of .zip files is big compared to a typical tree of source code.
> 
> There's no limit to the size of files that can be uploaded/downloaded.
>  It's HTTP.  The whole system was designed to be 'streamy' with large
> files.
> 
> CVS, on the other hand, requires that the server hold the entire
> tree-being-checked-out in RAM.  If you do a checkout of 400 megs of
> source, your server better have 400 megs of RAM to hold it.  If 5
> people are checking out that source tree at once, your server better
> have 2 gigs.  Not so scalable.

so the 'video documentation' that i'm currently building for axiom
has no hope of being supported? it's the late 90s and i figure that
it's time to consider using video tools to enhance the axiom tutorial.
these video clips are another way to explore literate programming.
even with compression these files regularly top 20M.

the 'src/video' directory will likely hold between a CD and a DVD
worth of mini-tutorial topics. these can be added and deleted in
small, section-sized segments as they get modified with better
information. they will be an integral part of the axiom src distribution.

i'm not alone in testing this direction. the lisp SLIME project
has their tutorial done in video. camtasia has their tutorials in
video.

does it make sense to rely on a version control system that fails
to handle 20M files? 

perhaps CVS/SVN needs a bit of redesign to handle the future.

t



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On 10/5/06, root <daly@axiom-developer.org> wrote:

> does it make sense to rely on a version control system that fails
> to handle 20M files?
>
> perhaps CVS/SVN needs a bit of redesign to handle the future.

Sorry, I think I was being unclear in my previous mail.  I was trying to say:

1. CVS is badly designed and not scalable.  It requires server RAM
proportional to the size of the data you're trying to transfer.

2. Subversion is designed for scalability.  There is no limit to the
size of files it can handle.

So yes, you should not rely on an unscalable version control system
like CVS, *especially* if you're going to be working with large files.
 You should use a system like Subversion instead.



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Tim,

On October 5, 2006 11:08 AM you wrote:
> ... 
> the 'src/video' directory will likely hold between a CD and
> a DVD worth of mini-tutorial topics. these can be added and
> deleted in small, section-sized segments as they get modified
> with better information. they will be an integral part of the
> axiom src distribution.
> 
> ... 
> does it make sense to rely on a version control system that
> fails to handle 20M files? 
> 
> perhaps CVS/SVN needs a bit of redesign to handle the future.
> 

You are the only one I know who would seriously think of keeping
video in their *source code* control system! Of course it's a
matter of perspective. What do we want to do with which tools?

When you say "integral part of the axiom src distribution" why
do you assume that it must be via subversion, cvs, Arch, etc.?

As far as I am concerning things like video belong on a web site.
As you said, this *is* the 21st century...

Regards,
Bill Page.





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On 10/5/06, Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:

> When you say "integral part of the axiom src distribution" why
> do you assume that it must be via subversion, cvs, Arch, etc.?

I think that's the central issue here.   A version control system has
exactly one audience:  developers.  It's meant for tracking the
history of source code.  It doesn't need to contain large static
unchanging objects, and it certainly doesn't need to contain other
packages that the code depends on.   It only needs to track the code
itself, the volatile stuff that really needs fine-grained management.

A completely separate concept is that of 'distribution':  some sort of
release package that has everything a user need to 'just run' (or
build) the software.  That's something assembled by a package
maintainer:  it contains sourcecode, docs, dependencies, and maybe
even compiled binaries.  Users are the audience.

Release packages are only created for users when the software reaches
a milestone like "1.2".  It's perfectly reasonable, on the other hand,
to make the (relatively small number) of developers go through some
work to build the latest code:  check out the latest stuff from
version control, grab some tools, grab some dependencies from
somewhere else, etc.  It's some initial one-time overhead for people
who intend to improve the software, rather than just use it.

In a nutshell, what I'm trying to say is:  a version control system is
not a package-distribution system.  One is for a small group of
developers, the other is for a large audience of users.  Mixing the
two concepts can result in a lot of pain.



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> You are the only one I know who would seriously think of keeping
> video in their *source code* control system! Of course it's a
> matter of perspective. What do we want to do with which tools?

Where the tutorial shows a picture and a bunch of words about
how to interact with hyperdoc you could insert video clips that
are run in place that give more in-depth information.

The new Sony Reader 
http://www.learningcenter.sony.us/assets/itpd/reader/reader_features.html
is capable of displaying these kind of literate documents.

> When you say "integral part of the axiom src distribution" why
> do you assume that it must be via subversion, cvs, Arch, etc.?

when you're documenting the internals of the interpreter or talking
about the theory behind a domain (perhaps a recording of a talk on
DH matrices) you have the video clip switching between views
of a speaker and views of the source code that implements the 
transformations. the goal is to bring someone up-to-speed rapidly
on the details of the code. once the code is modified the
clip would be re-recorded to update the literate document.

we're trying to write for humans, not computers, so the question
of what is 'source code' is intimately bound up with the target
audience.

> As far as I am concerning things like video belong on a web site.
> As you said, this *is* the 21st century...

sure it's on a website. but the website is local on the doyen CD.
using the browser to play the clips, allow hyperlinking (although
camtasia allows hyperlinking from inside the clips), and doing
picture-in-picture kind of source code explanations are all 
reasonable ideas.

you've made the assumption that a 'website' has to be on the web
which is not the case at all. in fact, the latest work of recoding
the hyperdoc in an ajax environment assumes local access to local
axiom databases. you clearly want to use the local database because
they reflect your own code. it's all in a browser, it's all in a
website but it's not on the web.

t




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> > When you say "integral part of the axiom src distribution" why
> > do you assume that it must be via subversion, cvs, Arch, etc.?
> 
> I think that's the central issue here.   A version control system has
> exactly one audience:  developers.  It's meant for tracking the
> history of source code.  It doesn't need to contain large static
> unchanging objects, and it certainly doesn't need to contain other
> packages that the code depends on.   It only needs to track the code
> itself, the volatile stuff that really needs fine-grained management.

hmmm.... methinks you might not realize that axiom is, at least under
my view, trying to take a new direction about what 'source code' means.

it is my belief that systems like axiom can only survive if we start
writing for people rather than machines. there needs to be an intimate
connection between the traditional 'source code' (e.g. program source)
and documentation, in the form of literate source. if we only depend
on traditional source we lose all of the expertise that makes the 
system viable. i'm working to try to make the system easy enough
for the next generation to maintain, modify, and extend. in this view
there is no distinction between 'source code' and 'documentation'.

this is especially vital in complex computational mathematics.


> A completely separate concept is that of 'distribution':  some sort of
> release package that has everything a user need to 'just run' (or
> build) the software.  That's something assembled by a package
> maintainer:  it contains sourcecode, docs, dependencies, and maybe
> even compiled binaries.  Users are the audience.
> 
> Release packages are only created for users when the software reaches
> a milestone like "1.2".  It's perfectly reasonable, on the other hand,
> to make the (relatively small number) of developers go through some
> work to build the latest code:  check out the latest stuff from
> version control, grab some tools, grab some dependencies from
> somewhere else, etc.  It's some initial one-time overhead for people
> who intend to improve the software, rather than just use it.
> 
> In a nutshell, what I'm trying to say is:  a version control system is
> not a package-distribution system.  One is for a small group of
> developers, the other is for a large audience of users.  Mixing the
> two concepts can result in a lot of pain.

are you suggesting that the videos should be maintained on local
disk drives by specially designated 'package-distribution' developers?

there are several problems with this.

we are not doing a 'package-distribution', we're developing a program.
this program would be part of a package-distribution (e.g. debian).

the end user (e.g. Bertfreid Fauser who is an expert in Clifford
Algebras) would be developing video lectures along with the source
code that implements the concepts. end users need to be able to
develop packages, possibly coordinated with other worldwide users.
CVS/SVN/ARCH/DARCS exists to allow this coordination.

the latest version of any system should be available in the 
version control system, not by request to some special place.

there is no distinction in axiom between the programming language
code and the documentation as both are subparts of the literate
document. you can't maintain one without maintaining the other
at least that's the 'spirit' of the idea. 





version control systems maintain historically versioned copies 
of files required to build a system. they just need to copy files.
they are 'mechanism', not 'policy'. it is a bad idea to form
policy based on mechanism.

t




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Greetings!  OK, Patch is in now.  Thanks!

Take care,

"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

> Camm,
> 
> On Friday, September 15, 2006 11:31 AM you wrote:
> > 
> > Can we finalize this stat bit please?  I'm trying to get 2.6.8 out
> > ....
> 
> I had a bit of trouble with my Windows MSYS/MinGW configuration
> over the weekend, but now I have got it straight. See the Windows
> configuration here:
> 
> http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/BuildAxiom
> 
> for how I setup the build environment.
> 
> I needed the following patch to build on Windows because of a
> difference with lstat (explained in the patch).
> 
> $ diff -Naur gcl-2.6.8pre_orig/o gcl-2.6.8pre/o
> diff -Naur gcl-2.6.8pre_orig/o/unixfsys.c gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unixfsys.c
> --- gcl-2.6.8pre_orig/o/unixfsys.c      Sun Sep 17 17:54:43 2006
> +++ gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unixfsys.c   Wed Sep 20 01:03:44 2006
> @@ -34,6 +34,10 @@
>  
>  #ifdef __MINGW32__ 
>  #  include <windows.h> 
> +/* Windows has no symlink, therefore no lstat.  Without symlinks lstat
> +   is equivalent to stat anyway.  */
> +#  define S_ISLNK(a) 0
> +#  define lstat stat
>  #endif 
>  
>  #ifdef BSD
> 
> ----------
> 
> With this patch applied I was able to build both the CLtL1 and ANSI
> images.
> 
> Here are the results of some tests of the new si:stat function:
> 
> $ saved_gcl
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Sep 20 2006 02:26:46
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to
> C:/DOCUME~1/bpage/LOCALS~1/Temp/
> 
> >(si:stat "tryserv.tcl")
> 
> (:FILE 481 1158724649)
> 
> >(si:stat "tryserv.xxx")
> 
> NIL
> 
> >(si:stat "bfd")        
> 
> (:DIRECTORY 0 1158734019)
> 
> >(quit)
> 
> ------------
> 
> The difference between this and your output below seems to be due
> to a change in the coding for this section in the current CVS
> which now looks like this:
> 
>   if (lstat(filename,&ss))
>     RETURN1(Cnil);
>   else {/* ctime_r insufficiently portable */
>     /* int j;
>        ctime_r(&ss.st_ctime,filename);
>        j=strlen(filename);
>        if (isspace(filename[j-1]))
>        filename[j-1]=0;*/
>     RETURN1(list(3,S_ISDIR(ss.st_mode) ? sKdirectory :
>                  (S_ISLNK(ss.st_mode) ? sKlink : sKfile),
>                  make_fixnum(ss.st_size),make_fixnum(ss.st_ctime)));
> 
> -------
> 
> So is this the result you expected from Windows?
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> > 
> > In addition to knowing whether enough information is provided, I need
> > to know if it works on windows, macosx, and any other proprietary
> > system of interest.
> > ... 
> > > 
> > > The easy way, which avoids the requirement of PDP-10 lisp
> > > comaptability :-), is si::stat.  How about this:
> > > 
> > > Index: unixfsys.c
> > > ===================================================================
> > > RCS file: /cvsroot/gcl/gcl/o/unixfsys.c,v
> > > retrieving revision 1.28
> > > diff -u -r1.28 unixfsys.c
> > > --- unixfsys.c	24 Aug 2006 16:53:28 -0000	1.28
> > > +++ unixfsys.c	12 Sep 2006 16:35:56 -0000
> > > @@ -23,6 +23,7 @@
> > >  #include <stdlib.h>
> > >  #include <unistd.h>
> > >  #include <errno.h>
> > > +#include <time.h>
> > >  
> > >  #define IN_UNIXFSYS
> > >  #include "include.h"
> > > @@ -490,6 +491,34 @@
> > >  }
> > >  
> > >  
> > > +DEF_ORDINARY("DIRECTORY",sKdirectory,KEYWORD,"");
> > > +DEF_ORDINARY("LINK",sKlink,KEYWORD,"");
> > > +DEF_ORDINARY("FILE",sKfile,KEYWORD,"");
> > > +
> > > 
> > +DEFUN_NEW("STAT",object,fSstat,SI,1,1,NONE,OO,OO,OO,OO,(objec
> > t path),"") {
> > > +
> > > +  char filename[4096];
> > > +  struct stat ss;
> > > +  
> > > +
> > > +  bzero(filename,sizeof(filename));
> > > +  coerce_to_filename(path,filename);
> > > +  if (lstat(filename,&ss))
> > > +    RETURN1(Cnil);
> > > +  else {
> > > +    int j;
> > > +    ctime_r(&ss.st_ctime,filename);
> > > +    j=strlen(filename);
> > > +    if (isspace(filename[j-1]))
> > > +      filename[j-1]=0;
> > > +    RETURN1(list(3,S_ISDIR(ss.st_mode) ? sKdirectory : 
> > > +		 (S_ISLNK(ss.st_mode) ? sKlink : sKfile),
> > > +		 make_fixnum(ss.st_size),make_simple_string(filename)));
> > > +  }
> > > +}
> > > +
> > > +
> > > +
> > >  
> > DEFUN_NEW("SETENV",object,fSsetenv,SI,2,2,NONE,OO,OO,OO,OO,(ob
> > ject variable,object value),"Set environment VARIABLE to VALUE")
> > >  
> > >  {
> > > 
> > > 
> > > >(si::stat "/tmp/ff1.h")
> > > 
> > > (:LINK 9 "Tue Sep 12 12:32:58 2006")
> > > 
> > > >(si::stat "/tmp/ff.h")
> > > 
> > > (:FILE 0 "Mon Dec  5 13:52:23 2005")
> > > 
> > > >(si::stat "/tmp/")
> > > 
> > > (:DIRECTORY 81920 "Tue Sep 12 12:34:53 2006")
> > > 
> > > >(si::stat "/tmp")
> > > 
> > > (:DIRECTORY 81920 "Tue Sep 12 12:34:53 2006")
> > > 
> > > >(si::stat "/tmp1")
> > > 
> > > NIL
> > > ... 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Axiom-developer mailing list
> Axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiom-developer
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| hmmm.... methinks you might not realize that axiom is, at least under
| my view, trying to take a new direction about what 'source code' means.

well, so far, it has failed to convincingly tell us what that new
direction is.

| it is my belief that systems like axiom can only survive if we start
| writing for people rather than machines.

yes; but I don't see how that implies keeping the video under CVS or SVN.

-- Gaby



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> | hmmm.... methinks you might not realize that axiom is, at least under
> | my view, trying to take a new direction about what 'source code' means.
> 
> well, so far, it has failed to convincingly tell us what that new
> direction is.
> 
> | it is my belief that systems like axiom can only survive if we start
> | writing for people rather than machines.
> 
> yes; but I don't see how that implies keeping the video under CVS or SVN.

we've had this discussion before. see the discussion surrounding your
suggestion that we make building the documentation portion of the
literate programs optional. does a checkout now exclude video?

the questions come down to 



1) what kind of final product do you expect when you do:

cvs co ... axiom
cd axiom
./configure
make
make install
axiom



2) what kind of environment do you expect if you want to write 
a new axiom domain? if you do:

)compile mynewfoo.pamphlet

does it build the documentation? 
does it update the browser? 
does it hyperlink to your video information?
does it allow drag-and-drop of new domains?

or does it simply extract the computer program and compile it?


t









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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > | hmmm.... methinks you might not realize that axiom is, at least under
| > | my view, trying to take a new direction about what 'source code' means.
| > 
| > well, so far, it has failed to convincingly tell us what that new
| > direction is.
| > 
| > | it is my belief that systems like axiom can only survive if we start
| > | writing for people rather than machines.
| > 
| > yes; but I don't see how that implies keeping the video under CVS or SVN.
| 
| we've had this discussion before. see the discussion surrounding your
| suggestion that we make building the documentation portion of the
| literate programs optional.

and you've seen build failure reports on "common" platforms because of
unreasonable insistance to latex files everytime and everywhere, when
in fact it is not needed. 
As of this morning, for the build-improvements branch, building the
doc is optional and I have been able to build axiom on more machines,
including some SF "broken" machines. 

Ultimately, I suspect the question is whether we want to ensure we
build a black hole ghetto around Axiom -- from which no ligh should
escape -- because the world is not ready to see it yet, or whether we
want to build on existing technology to bring better alternatives.

| does a checkout now exclude video?
| 
| the questions come down to 
| 
| 
| 
| 1) what kind of final product do you expect when you do:
| 
| cvs co ... axiom
| cd axiom
| ./configure
| make
| make install
| axiom

Any procedure that includes the first step definitely is broken if we
want to attain larger class of users.

Consequently, I propose this -- before we take over the world and we
make Lisp the only constitutional programming language --

  * get an axiom source  -- this does not mean you have to check out
    of CVS/SVN
  * ./configure && make && make install

The crucial difference is the first step.  The distribution tarball
need not contain only source files that come from the CVS/TLA/SVN repo.

| 2) what kind of environment do you expect if you want to write 
| a new axiom domain? if you do:
| 
| )compile mynewfoo.pamphlet
| 
| does it build the documentation? 

*optionally*

| does it update the browser? 

when it builds the documentation.

| does it hyperlink to your video information?

*optionally*

| does it allow drag-and-drop of new domains?

*optionally*

| or does it simply extract the computer program and compile it?

depends on the options.

-- Gaby



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> | the questions come down to 
> | 
> | 1) what kind of final product do you expect when you do:
> | 
> | cvs co ... axiom
> | cd axiom
> | ./configure
> | make
> | make install
> | axiom
> 
> Any procedure that includes the first step definitely is broken if we
> want to attain larger class of users.
> 
> Consequently, I propose this -- before we take over the world and we
> make Lisp the only constitutional programming language --
> 
>   * get an axiom source  -- this does not mean you have to check out
>     of CVS/SVN
>   * ./configure && make && make install
> 
> The crucial difference is the first step.  The distribution tarball
> need not contain only source files that come from the CVS/TLA/SVN repo.

you answered a different question. the question is carefully constructed.
i'm curious to know what you believe the result of the steps outlined
above should be.

t



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > | the questions come down to 
| > | 
| > | 1) what kind of final product do you expect when you do:
| > | 
| > | cvs co ... axiom
| > | cd axiom
| > | ./configure
| > | make
| > | make install
| > | axiom
| > 
| > Any procedure that includes the first step definitely is broken if we
| > want to attain larger class of users.
| > 
| > Consequently, I propose this -- before we take over the world and we
| > make Lisp the only constitutional programming language --
| > 
| >   * get an axiom source  -- this does not mean you have to check out
| >     of CVS/SVN
| >   * ./configure && make && make install
| > 
| > The crucial difference is the first step.  The distribution tarball
| > need not contain only source files that come from the CVS/TLA/SVN repo.
| 
| you answered a different question. the question is carefully constructed.
| i'm curious to know what you believe the result of the steps outlined
| above should be.

I believe I carefully answered:  I believe the steps are broken
because the first one.

If you want to test what the distribution should be/work then say "make
distcheck" instead of simple "make", but you did not answer that
question :-) 

-- Gaby



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> | 2) what kind of environment do you expect if you want to write 
> | a new axiom domain? if you do:
> | 
> | )compile mynewfoo.pamphlet
> | 
> | does it build the documentation? 
> 
> *optionally*
> 
> | does it update the browser? 
> 
> when it builds the documentation.
> 
> | does it hyperlink to your video information?
> 
> *optionally*
> 
> | does it allow drag-and-drop of new domains?
> 
> *optionally*
> 
> | or does it simply extract the computer program and compile it?
> 
> depends on the options.


you see, we differ on fundamental philosophy.

you believe that the important part is the programming language code.
you believe that latex failures are just annoying and can be skipped.
you believe that documentation comes AFTER working code.
you believe that it is important to write for the machine.
therefore, dcoumentation, hyperdocs, video, etc are optional.

i believe that the whole literate document is important.
i believe that a latex failure is as fundamental as a programming failure.
i believe that documentation IS working code.
i believe that it is important to write for the future.
therefore, dcoumentation, hyperdocs, video, etc ARE "source code".

i used to believe what you believe which is why axiom is so poorly
documented. if we had thought about what was important we would now
have a fully documented interpreter, compiler, makefiles, boot
language and spad language. the algebra would include the theory and,
if the technology was available, we would have videos of Manuel
Bronstein explaining his code. Instead we have this pile of "just the
important stuff" because documentation was optional and an afterthought.

the mistake you are making can only be seen in the light of history.
but with 35 years of axiom experience we CAN see the mistake.

t






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| > The crucial difference is the first step.  The distribution tarball
| > need not contain only source files that come from the CVS/TLA/SVN repo.

> If you want to test what the distribution should be/work then say "make
> distcheck" instead of simple "make", but you did not answer that
> question :-) 

i have no idea what a 'distcheck' could mean.

so only programming language code goes in the CVS?

what about the documentation?
what if the documentation is hyperlinked?
what if the documentation is dynamically constructed?
what if the documentation is in video?
how do you do versioning without a CVS?
how do you do coordinated development without using CVS?
WHY do coordinated development WITHOUT using CVS?

if the non-programming language files reside elsewhere
who holds these 'master files' that make up a distribution?
 
how did axiom suddenly change from a project into a 'distribution'?
what exactly is your definition of a distribution and how does it
differ from the current system?

so my answer to YOUR question is that *I* believe that the CVS is the
correct place to store the project files.... ALL the project files. 
so they can be versioned. so we can recreate the video from last year. 
so multiple people can coordinate building documentation.
so anyone can build a complete system from the CVS. 

this is why we use a code versioning system at all.
otherwise lets just put tarballs on the wiki.



> I believe I carefully answered:  I believe the steps are broken
> because the first one.

so, i repeat *MY* question. Assume the first step happens:


 1) what kind of final product do you expect when you do:

 cvs co ... axiom
 cd axiom
 ./configure
 make
 make install
 axiom

t






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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| you see, we differ on fundamental philosophy.

Most certainly.

| you believe that the important part is the programming language code.

No.  Absolument no.  

As you used to say yourself, running code wins the debate.  
Think about it :-)

I believe in gradual improvements.  You want to take on the world
overnight, with antique tools, totally refusing gradual steps.

| you believe that latex failures are just annoying and can be skipped.

No.  I believe that when and where checking the latex files are not
necessary, there is no point on insisting on it.  You're certainly not
going to convince Foobar to use Axiom when you absolutely refuse to build
on his machine.

| you believe that documentation comes AFTER working code.
| you believe that it is important to write for the machine.
| therefore, dcoumentation, hyperdocs, video, etc are optional.

It is disappointing that you insist on mischaracterization on what I said. 

I'll repeat what I've said earlier.  There are various steps in
developments.  At some points it is absolutely necessary to check
everything.  On other points it is also convenient to check *just
some points*.  To accomodate for those needs, it is necessary that
some part of the process be optional.  There is no point on insisting
on video on my machine when the only thing I have is a simple VT
terminal.  That by no means implies that video is unimportant.  It
just isn't always useful in all circumstances.  

What part of that is unclear?

[...]

| i used to believe what you believe which is why axiom is so poorly
| documented. if we had thought about what was important we would now
| have a fully documented interpreter, compiler, makefiles, boot
| language and spad language. the algebra would include the theory and,
| if the technology was available, we would have videos of Manuel
| Bronstein explaining his code. Instead we have this pile of "just the
| important stuff" because documentation was optional and an afterthought.

Yoy're totally off track about what I believe is important. :-(

-- Gaby



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well, you're doing a good job on the build-improvements
so lets just agree to disagree. 

t



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] version control
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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| | > The crucial difference is the first step.  The distribution tarball
| | > need not contain only source files that come from the CVS/TLA/SVN repo.
| 
| > If you want to test what the distribution should be/work then say "make
| > distcheck" instead of simple "make", but you did not answer that
| > question :-) 
| 
| i have no idea what a 'distcheck' could mean.

>From "info Automake":

 # Automake also generates a `distcheck' rule which can be of help to
 # ensure that a given distribution will actually work.  `distcheck' makes
 # a distribution, then tries to do a `VPATH' build, run the test suite,
 # and finally make another tarfile to ensure the distribution is
 # self-contained.
 #
 #    Building the package involves running `./configure'.  If you need to
 # supply additional flags to `configure', define them in the
 # `DISTCHECK_CONFIGURE_FLAGS' variable, either in your top-level
 # `Makefile.am', or on the command line when invoking `make'.
 #
 #    If the `distcheck-hook' rule is defined in your top-level
 # `Makefile.am', then it will be invoked by `distcheck' after the new
 # distribution has been unpacked, but before the unpacked copy is
 # configured and built.  Your `distcheck-hook' can do almost anything,
 # though as always caution is advised.  Generally this hook is used to
 # check for potential distribution errors not caught by the standard
 # mechanism.  Note that `distcheck-hook' as well as
 # `DISTCHECK_CONFIGURE_FLAGS' are not honored in a subpackage
 # `Makefile.am', but the `DISTCHECK_CONFIGURE_FLAGS' are passed down to
 # the `configure' script of the subpackage.


Granted we don't use Automake, *but* we can have a Makefile rule that
does exactly that check.  

| so only programming language code goes in the CVS?

No.

| what about the documentation?
| what if the documentation is hyperlinked?
| what if the documentation is dynamically constructed?
| what if the documentation is in video?
| how do you do versioning without a CVS?
| how do you do coordinated development without using CVS?
| WHY do coordinated development WITHOUT using CVS?
| 
| if the non-programming language files reside elsewhere
| who holds these 'master files' that make up a distribution?

I don't think I'm saying all documentations have to reside elsewhere.
Furthermore, I don't think I've said hyperlinked documentation should
reside elsewhere.  I disput the notion that everything Axiom needs to
run must reside in Axiom repo.  I hope you do not propose to retain
packages of Linux kernels in the Axiom repo, because Axiom would need
running Linux, therefore it must encure that the repo must ensure that
it has copies of it.

| how did axiom suddenly change from a project into a 'distribution'?

I don't think I've suggested that Axiom should change from project to
distribution.  

However, there is always the question of how you attract new people to
the project.  You have to think about it.  Rigidity is not, IMHO, a
good strategy.  I highly it will not help in reduce people's
skepticism about Axiom.

| what exactly is your definition of a distribution and how does it
| differ from the current system?

I'm not into distribution (even when considering GCC).  However, I do
believe that the project would be meaningful *if* it had users.  Do
you consider feedback uninteresting?

| so my answer to YOUR question is that *I* believe that the CVS is the
| correct place to store the project files.... ALL the project files. 
| so they can be versioned. so we can recreate the video from last year. 
| so multiple people can coordinate building documentation.
| so anyone can build a complete system from the CVS. 
| 
| this is why we use a code versioning system at all.
| otherwise lets just put tarballs on the wiki.
| 
| 
| 
| > I believe I carefully answered:  I believe the steps are broken
| > because the first one.
| 
| so, i repeat *MY* question. Assume the first step happens:
| 
| 
|  1) what kind of final product do you expect when you do:
| 
|  cvs co ... axiom
|  cd axiom
|  ./configure
|  make
|  make install
|  axiom

It depends on what you set up, as *developer*.  

For example, if you don't have GCL installed, the above will fail.
Similarly, it you don't have noweb, it will fail.

Now. Consider this:

  (1) If you're developer, you do the following to make available
      Axiom for users

    svn co ....
    ./configure && make distckeck
    copy the tarball over to a place people can download
   

  (2) If you're Axiom user (not actively developing Axiom), you do the
      following 

     untar the tarball
     ./configure && make && make install
     enjoy Axiom

  (3)  If you're users interested in "playing" with Axiom from SVN repo,
       you're expected to have an environment that meets some minimal
       requirements (e.g. having noweb, GCL, ...).


Bottom line: I would like to see GCL, nowed, etc. tarballs disappear from
Axiom repo.  They are better handled as separate tools and Axiom
should should not be in business in developing its own version of them.

-- Gaby



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Calling gbc before init-memory-config in restart
	(bookvol5)
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Hello,

What about "garbage collecting" (gbc t) in the 'restart' function
(bookvol5) just before calling 'init-memory-config'.

In fact I can not load more than 16 libraries in .axiom.input when I
call 'restart'. These libraries are not completely loaded, just some
')lib something'. I obtain this error:

   >> System error:
   Can't set the limit for relocatable blocks to 1000.

but if I issue (gbc t) before calling 'restart' that works.

Here is the output of 'room' if I do not call 'gbc'. No operation has
been performed, just 16 ')lib':


  1479/1479   83.3%       1 CONS BIGNUM RATIO COMPLEX STRUCTURE
   145/200    49.4%         FIXNUM SHORT-FLOAT LONG-FLOAT CHARACTER
RANDOM-STATE READTABLE SPICE
   499/500   100.0%         SYMBOL STREAM PATHNAME CCLOSURE CLOSURE
     1/8      41.3%         PACKAGE
    12/400    85.4%         ARRAY HASH-TABLE VECTOR BIT-VECTOR
    21/100    99.3%         CFUN CFDATA
   295/500    90.5%         SFUN STRING GFUN VFUN AFUN

  2110/3000                 contiguous (420 blocks)
       1954                 hole
       1676   55.7%       2 relocatable

      2452 pages for cells
      8192 total pages
    494772 pages available
     21324 pages in heap but not gc'd + pages needed for gc marking
    524288 maximum pages

If I issue a (restart) I get the error above but if I "garbage collect"
the output of 'room' is:

  1479/1479   76.2%       1 CONS BIGNUM RATIO COMPLEX STRUCTURE
   145/200    44.1%         FIXNUM SHORT-FLOAT LONG-FLOAT CHARACTER
RANDOM-STATE READTABLE SPICE
   500/750    99.4%       1 SYMBOL STREAM PATHNAME CCLOSURE CLOSURE
     1/8      41.3%         PACKAGE
    12/400    63.3%         ARRAY HASH-TABLE VECTOR BIT-VECTOR
    21/100    99.1%         CFUN CFDATA
   295/500    79.2%         SFUN STRING GFUN VFUN AFUN

  2110/3000               1 contiguous (274 blocks)
       2000                 hole
       1676   11.4%       2 relocatable

      2453 pages for cells
      8239 total pages
    494771 pages available
     21278 pages in heap but not gc'd + pages needed for gc marking
    524288 maximum pages

And I can call 'restart'.

I tested to increase the number of relocatable blocks with
(init-memory-config ... :rpages 2000 ...) in 'restart' but this does not
solve the problem, I encounter the same problem later (after calling
'restart' 4 times).

This request is specific and not really important, it's just for
convenience (and I will not need to maintain a patch :-).

Greg




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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: Calling gbc before init-memory-config in
	restart (bookvol5)
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After reflexion, since this function (restart) is "the real root of the
world" and no one will use this function in an axiom session forget this
mail. Furthermore it's not nice to call the garbage collector at the
beginning of a session.

Greg


Le vendredi 06 octobre 2006 =E0 18:25 +0200, Vanuxem Gr=E9gory a =E9crit =
:
> Hello,
>=20
> What about "garbage collecting" (gbc t) in the 'restart' function
> (bookvol5) just before calling 'init-memory-config'.
>=20
> In fact I can not load more than 16 libraries in .axiom.input when I
> call 'restart'. These libraries are not completely loaded, just some
> ')lib something'. I obtain this error:
>=20
>    >> System error:
>    Can't set the limit for relocatable blocks to 1000.
>=20
> but if I issue (gbc t) before calling 'restart' that works.
>=20
> Here is the output of 'room' if I do not call 'gbc'. No operation has
> been performed, just 16 ')lib':
>=20
>=20
>   1479/1479   83.3%       1 CONS BIGNUM RATIO COMPLEX STRUCTURE
>    145/200    49.4%         FIXNUM SHORT-FLOAT LONG-FLOAT CHARACTER
> RANDOM-STATE READTABLE SPICE
>    499/500   100.0%         SYMBOL STREAM PATHNAME CCLOSURE CLOSURE
>      1/8      41.3%         PACKAGE
>     12/400    85.4%         ARRAY HASH-TABLE VECTOR BIT-VECTOR
>     21/100    99.3%         CFUN CFDATA
>    295/500    90.5%         SFUN STRING GFUN VFUN AFUN
>=20
>   2110/3000                 contiguous (420 blocks)
>        1954                 hole
>        1676   55.7%       2 relocatable
>=20
>       2452 pages for cells
>       8192 total pages
>     494772 pages available
>      21324 pages in heap but not gc'd + pages needed for gc marking
>     524288 maximum pages
>=20
> If I issue a (restart) I get the error above but if I "garbage collect"
> the output of 'room' is:
>=20
>   1479/1479   76.2%       1 CONS BIGNUM RATIO COMPLEX STRUCTURE
>    145/200    44.1%         FIXNUM SHORT-FLOAT LONG-FLOAT CHARACTER
> RANDOM-STATE READTABLE SPICE
>    500/750    99.4%       1 SYMBOL STREAM PATHNAME CCLOSURE CLOSURE
>      1/8      41.3%         PACKAGE
>     12/400    63.3%         ARRAY HASH-TABLE VECTOR BIT-VECTOR
>     21/100    99.1%         CFUN CFDATA
>    295/500    79.2%         SFUN STRING GFUN VFUN AFUN
>=20
>   2110/3000               1 contiguous (274 blocks)
>        2000                 hole
>        1676   11.4%       2 relocatable
>=20
>       2453 pages for cells
>       8239 total pages
>     494771 pages available
>      21278 pages in heap but not gc'd + pages needed for gc marking
>     524288 maximum pages
>=20
> And I can call 'restart'.
>=20
> I tested to increase the number of relocatable blocks with
> (init-memory-config ... :rpages 2000 ...) in 'restart' but this does no=
t
> solve the problem, I encounter the same problem later (after calling
> 'restart' 4 times).
>=20
> This request is specific and not really important, it's just for
> convenience (and I will not need to maintain a patch :-).
>=20
> Greg




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Motion on the sourceforge compile farm request....



------- Start of forwarded message -------
To: noreply@sourceforge.net
From: "SourceForge.net" <noreply@sourceforge.net>
Subject: [ alexandria-Support Requests-1551244 ] Latex on Compile Farm
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2006 12:50:27 -0700

Support Requests item #1551244, was opened at 2006-09-02 17:56
Message generated for change (Settings changed) made by wdavison
You can respond by visiting: 
https://sourceforge.net/tracker/?func=detail&atid=200001&aid=1551244&group_id=1

Please note that this message will contain a full copy of the comment thread,
including the initial issue submission, for this request,
not just the latest update.
Category: SF.net Compile Farm
Group: Second Level Support
Status: Open
Priority: 5
Submitted By: Tim Daly (daly)
>Assigned to: Robert Liesenfeld (xunil)
Summary: Latex on Compile Farm

Initial Comment:
Axiom uses literate programming. In order to use
the compile farm machines we need to have latex
installed. Latex is fairly standard software that
has been around for 20 years so it is not experimental.
Most distributions have it installed.

Axiom runs on a wide range of hardware and we need
the compile farm to test. 

Is it possible to have it installed on the compile 
farm machines?

Tim Daly
daly@axiom-developer.org


- ----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Date: 2006-09-07 09:17

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To: Ben Collins-Sussman <sussman@google.com>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
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Ben,

I am away at a computer algebra meeting until Wednesday, so my email
might be a little less responsive than usual.

Unfortunately, after 72 of about 170 revisions, I got the following
message:

..
Copied properties for revision 72.
Committed revision 73.
Copied properties for revissvnsync: MERGE request failed on '/svn'
svnsync: Commit would put repository over quota limit.
ion 73.
Committed revision 74.
Copied properties for revision 74.
..

But notice that in spite of the error, 'synsync' continued until

Copied properties for revision 100.
Committed revision 101.
Copied properties for revision 101.

-------

At which point 'svnsync' stop without further error messages. An
attempt to restart the 'svnsync' process yielded:

svnsync: MERGE request failed on '/svn'
svnsync: Commit would put repository over quota limit.

-----

Nearly 70 more (all small) revisions are still not applied. And presumably
revision 73 is also missing.

This time I got this quota error message even though I have checked in
advance that the resulting mirror is much smaller than 250 Mbytes when
created locally via file:///. So maybe this time your quota program really
is making a mistake?

Regards,
Bill Page.

Quoting Ben Collins-Sussman :

> On 10/5/06, Bill Page  wrote:
>
>> Well, a little over an hour ago I did
>>
>>  $ nohup svnsync sync https://axiom.googlecode.com/svn &
>>
>> for the third time. This time it seems to be running. No new
>> error messsages. Now at revison 8. See commit email attached.
>> Only a 170 more to go... (almost all much smaller that r3).
>>
>> I am keeping my fingers crossed (so it is hard to type ;)
>
> Any progress?  I see 101 revisions in the repos...
>





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bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca writes:

[...]

| This time I got this quota error message even though I have checked in
| advance that the resulting mirror is much smaller than 250 Mbytes when
| created locally via file:///. So maybe this time your quota program really
| is making a mistake?

Can we get the 1G and be done with it?

-- Gaby



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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> ...
> Can we get the 1G and be done with it?
>

.. but then how would help debug the Google, svnsync, svk, and svn
programs? ;)

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Gaby, ATM the stamp stuff misses dependencies: when I modify interp
files and run make nothing is rebuilt, because the stamp is still there
with old date.  So to force rebuilding one has to remove stamp by
hand.

AFAICS there are various correct solutions:

1) unconditionally run recursive makes in subdirectiries

2) put a list of source files for each subdirectory in the main
   src Makefile, and add this list as a dependency of the stamp

3) build everything from top-level makefile


Uunconditional recursive makes are a classic thing, the other two
can be managable if we include Makefile fragments into toplevel
Makefile.

I do not know what you want to do, but I think that correctly
handling dependencies is a must.


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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I've been thinking a little about the problems encountered with
bundling everything we need into one place and also about the desire
expressed by Tim that Axiom "just work".  If I may, I'd like to put
forth a discussion on these ideas and see if it can help define
priorities/methodology for us as a project.  I have no idea if this is
useful or not, but I am trying to organize the arguments.

Everything starts from goals, and many of them work against each other.
 For example, I think two reasonable goals for Axiom are:

a.  Utilize freely available work to enhance Axiom's functionality.
b.  Work without problem in a broad range of environments.

The problem, of course, is that often using external tools impose
increased demands on the quality assurance that must be done per
release, as there is no guarantee that external tools have not changed
under Axiom in a way that might break something.  Making Axiom work
with multiple cases of external program behavior is a net increase (a
large one) in the QA work that must be done per-package.  Not to
mention sometimes an upgrade to an external tool Axiom needs to have is
not present and will not or cannot be installed.  However, by the same
token, using external libraries and tools can save Axiom itself vast
amounts of effort which would constitute re-invention of the wheel. 
So, roughly, speaking the problem is to find the minimum point in:

  Total Work = Time spent fixing external tool problems -
               Time gained by not duplicating effort +
               Time spent coding logic "in project."

So, what are the approaches?

1.  Include all programs you might need in your own tree and maintain
them as part of your tree, up to some limit. (Current approach)
2.  Check for working required software when building/running, and stay
in sync with external tool changes as much as possible. (Autotools
approach).
3.  Minimize all external tool needs and supply as much logic as
possible within the development framework. (A LOT of work.)

Tim has gone for #1 I think because it is the most platform independent
way that can get us up and running quickly.  I must confess I have had
the most luck building the gold branch out of any of the various
iterations.

Gaby is working on the #2 approach, with an optional fall back to #1. 
This holds considerable promise but a concern is that it makes it
easier to avoid the "literate programming" part of building and using
Axiom, as Tim has defined it.  Opinions differ on whether this is a
serious problem or not - it undoubtely makes it easier to create a
working Axiom environment for more users if piecemeal building is
possible, but it may promote source code development without the
accompanying human explanation.  This is particularly true with
relatively small platform specific "tweaks" which are sometimes made.
The temptation to not document such "annoyance" changes is greater than
with the math code, I think. The issue is in some sense "one off" from
the interesting problems and may in fact be obsolete in a few years (or
even less).  Why then sink the time into documenting it?  (Yes, I know
the reasons, but it's a question that will be asked.)

The #3 approach I don't think has a lot of serious support, just
because of the sheer magnitude of the task.  While in one sense it has
the potential to simplfy things in the long run, the amount of work
needed to bring the code base over to something less "sprawling" in its
requirements is frightful, and would require building a lot of
"reinvent the wheel" in terms of supporting libraries/routines.  I
still contend that this work is something that will need to be done
anyway to make Axiom fully literate, but undoubtedly the incremental
approach is more realistic in a limited resources situation.

That said, I would like to add one more thought to the mix.  With
regards to having Axiom "just work", I think the difficulty of reaching
a "just works" stage in a program and maintaining it can be directly
related to the stability and extent of the "tower of software" needed
to run it.  The term "tower of software" I heard back on the Maxima
list (I believe from Dr. Fateman) and I find it a very useful
illustration.

Let's say, for example, that I wish to prove some properties about
algebra code in Axiom.  For those proofs to be meaningful not just in
theory "yes if your software platform works as described this will
work" but in fact "yes if your hardware works according to specs this
will work" the entire software stack from the machine level on up (and
really the hardware design itself as well) needs to be formally
verified.  In practice this is not currently something that is
workable, because I am not aware of any system ever designed with that
level of verification, but it is a very interesting goal.  If such a
platform were to emerge, the next question is "what would need to
happen for Axiom to make use of it?"  Axiom itself would need proof
decorated code (what that means is a bit fuzzy to me, but we'll go with
it) and it would need to run on a Lisp implementation that was also
verfied.  The Lisp implementation would need to run on the formally
verified platform.

That sounds like a lot of work, but imagine how much worse it gets if
we expand the tower of software beyond this minimum.  If we add C or
Fortran libraries, suddenly the issue of proving that code correct
becomes important, and the correctness of the C and Fortran
implementations (e.g. compilers) becomes important as well.  In this
situation, every non-essential language/library/etc. becomes a target
for elimination due to its added formal proof burden.  The cost of a
large/wide tower of software becomes exceedingly high.

Of course proving sofware properties is an extreme case and is not
(yet) a practical concern of Axiom, but the point remains.  Every new
language, library, and external program we introduce into Axiom
increases our burden of support - even if we don't bundle it into the
source tree, our reliance on it means that if it breaks and no one else
is there to fix it it becomes our problem.  And external tools will not
be literate, by and large.

This is one reason I like the idea of implementing as much
functionality as possible in Lisp - if someone starts a project
targeting formal verification of everything down to the machine level,
only one language implementation would need to be considered for
verification problems.  Another is that once we are in Lisp, it's like
being on the Java virtual machines - the portability problems are
abstracted out to another level and we can focus on features.  (The
current exception to this is graphics but that's another discussion,
and if we don't have an "official" GUI beyond the command line it's not
a problem anyway).

I tried to find some way of illustrating the relative complexity of
"include everything" vs. "minimize the tower of software" - I don't
know if it really helps, but I put together a graphviz file to try and
get a handle on the "this depends on this which depends on this"
issues.  I don't think it's fully correct, but it's a start.  There are
two, one for the "current technology" situation and one for a "nice
theoretical" situation.  I know there are holes - for example, the
requirements to view a browser based interfaces aren't considered.  But
maybe someone can build on it.  To turn them into postscript files: 
dot -Tps TowersOfSoftware.dot -o TowersOfSoftware.ps

My personal preference is to build towards the minimized tower of
software, but I can see the viewpoints of the other methods too. 
Anyway, just thought I'd see what other thoughts people had on this
subject.  Maybe there are even studies on it?

Cheers,
CY

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The current rule in src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet does not work
during re-make. Namely, SPAD compiler fails when NRLIB directory
already exists. I propose to add the following:

--- pp/build-improvements/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-09-29 21:09:42.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn5/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-07 05:32:35.000000000 +0200
@@ -1631,6 +1631,7 @@
 .PRECIOUS: ${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o
 ${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o: ${MID}/%.spad
 	@ echo compiling $*.spad to $*.NRLIB
+	rm -rf ${MID}/$*.NRLIB
 	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
 	   if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
 	    echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS}  ; \

One could also modify SPAD compiler to remove existing NRLIB, but
remove NRLIB from the makefile has advantage that build will fail
if NRLIB can not be recompiled -- currently build goes on using
stale NRLIB, which is very confusing for testing.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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How to correctly define nested function in algebra file?  I changed
beggining of goodCoef (in efstruc.spad.pamphlet) to the following:

    goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
      -- if k1 is part of k2 we should not express k1 in terms of k2
      -- (othewise we would get infinite recursion)
      -- below we impose a stronger condition: we require
      -- height(k1) to be maximal
      h:NonNegativeInteger := 0
      j:Integer := 0
      transcendental?(k:K):Boolean ==
         is?(k, "log"::SY) => true
         is?(k, "exp"::SY) => true
         is?(k, "tan"::SY) => true
         is?(k, "atan"::SY) => true
         false
      ll := [k for k in l | transcendental?(k)]

that compiles OK, but at runtime I get:

   >> System error:
   The function |EFSTRUC;transcendental?| is undefined.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Build-improvements and stamps
References: <E1GW0zw-0003YZ-00@hera.math.uni.wroc.pl>
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

[...]

| I do not know what you want to do, but I think that correctly
| handling dependencies is a must.

I know.  If it is not done yet, it is because I did not have time to
get there.  It is on the of things to be done.   I would not mind you
beat me at it :-)  On the TODO list, the README file reads:

    * Implement framework for recursive rules in Makefiles.

    [...]

    * Support parallel build.

-- Gaby



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To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Nested functions in SPAD
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| How to correctly define nested function in algebra file?  I changed
| beggining of goodCoef (in efstruc.spad.pamphlet) to the following:
| 
|     goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
|       -- if k1 is part of k2 we should not express k1 in terms of k2
|       -- (othewise we would get infinite recursion)
|       -- below we impose a stronger condition: we require
|       -- height(k1) to be maximal
|       h:NonNegativeInteger := 0
|       j:Integer := 0
|       transcendental?(k:K):Boolean ==
|          is?(k, "log"::SY) => true
|          is?(k, "exp"::SY) => true
|          is?(k, "tan"::SY) => true
|          is?(k, "atan"::SY) => true
|          false
|       ll := [k for k in l | transcendental?(k)]
| 
| that compiles OK, but at runtime I get:
| 
|    >> System error:
|    The function |EFSTRUC;transcendental?| is undefined.

Try:
    goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
      -- if k1 is part of k2 we should not express k1 in terms of k2
      -- (othewise we would get infinite recursion)
      -- below we impose a stronger condition: we require
      -- height(k1) to be maximal
      h:NonNegativeInteger := 0
      j:Integer := 0
      ll := [k for k in l | transcendental?(k)] where
         transcendental?(k:K):Boolean ==
            is?(k, "log"::SY) => true
            is?(k, "exp"::SY) => true
            is?(k, "tan"::SY) => true
            is?(k, "atan"::SY) => true
            false
      ll

-- Gaby



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To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] rule for making NRLIBs
References: <E1GW33p-0000P2-00@hera.math.uni.wroc.pl>
From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| The current rule in src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet does not work
| during re-make. Namely, SPAD compiler fails when NRLIB directory
| already exists. I propose to add the following:
| 
| --- pp/build-improvements/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-09-29 21:09:42.000000000 +0200
| +++ build-improvements.nn5/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-07 05:32:35.000000000 +0200
| @@ -1631,6 +1631,7 @@
|  .PRECIOUS: ${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o
|  ${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o: ${MID}/%.spad
|  	@ echo compiling $*.spad to $*.NRLIB
| +	rm -rf ${MID}/$*.NRLIB
|  	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
|  	   if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
|  	    echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS}  ; \
| 
| One could also modify SPAD compiler to remove existing NRLIB, but
| remove NRLIB from the makefile has advantage that build will fail
| if NRLIB can not be recompiled -- currently build goes on using
| stale NRLIB, which is very confusing for testing.


OK for silver and build-improvements, please add a changeLog entry.

Thanks!

-- Gaby



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Le samedi 07 octobre 2006 =E0 05:41 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
> The current rule in src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet does not work
> during re-make. Namely, SPAD compiler fails when NRLIB directory
> already exists. I propose to add the following:
>=20
> --- pp/build-improvements/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-09-29 21:0=
9:42.000000000 +0200
> +++ build-improvements.nn5/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-07 05:=
32:35.000000000 +0200
> @@ -1631,6 +1631,7 @@
>  .PRECIOUS: ${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o
>  ${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o: ${MID}/%.spad
>  	@ echo compiling $*.spad to $*.NRLIB
> +	rm -rf ${MID}/$*.NRLIB
>  	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
>  	   if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
>  	    echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS}  ; \
>=20
> One could also modify SPAD compiler to remove existing NRLIB,=20

I think it's the same bug than the bug #302 . See the thread
"Cannot Rename The File Erlib To NRLIB"  in Axiom-developer mail
Archives. Anyway this issue has to be discussed since it has a lot of
implications in the interpreter; some functions need to be modified,
they use (probe-file ...) and (delete-file ...) on directories. There is
apparently no consensus, as far as I know, on what 'probe-file' and
'delete-file' have to do for directories so...

Greg

P.S. I have encountered this issue in a totally different context this
is why I say a lot of implications; grep the interpreter for probe-file
and delete-file. I have fixed some parts of the interpreter in this
regard but probably not all, my aim was/is different.

> but
> remove NRLIB from the makefile has advantage that build will fail
> if NRLIB can not be recompiled -- currently build goes on using
> stale NRLIB, which is very confusing for testing.
>=20




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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Nested functions in SPAD
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> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
>
> | How to correctly define nested function in algebra file?  I changed
> | beggining of goodCoef (in efstruc.spad.pamphlet) to the following:
> |
> |     goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
> |       -- if k1 is part of k2 we should not express k1 in terms of k2
> |       -- (othewise we would get infinite recursion)
> |       -- below we impose a stronger condition: we require
> |       -- height(k1) to be maximal
> |       h:NonNegativeInteger := 0
> |       j:Integer := 0
> |       transcendental?(k:K):Boolean ==
> |          is?(k, "log"::SY) => true
> |          is?(k, "exp"::SY) => true
> |          is?(k, "tan"::SY) => true
> |          is?(k, "atan"::SY) => true
> |          false
> |       ll := [k for k in l | transcendental?(k)]
> |
> | that compiles OK, but at runtime I get:
> |
> |    >> System error:
> |    The function |EFSTRUC;transcendental?| is undefined.
>
> Try:
>     goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
>       -- if k1 is part of k2 we should not express k1 in terms of k2
>       -- (othewise we would get infinite recursion)
>       -- below we impose a stronger condition: we require
>       -- height(k1) to be maximal
>       h:NonNegativeInteger := 0
>       j:Integer := 0
>       ll := [k for k in l | transcendental?(k)] where
>          transcendental?(k:K):Boolean ==
>             is?(k, "log"::SY) => true
>             is?(k, "exp"::SY) => true
>             is?(k, "tan"::SY) => true
>             is?(k, "atan"::SY) => true
>             false
>       ll
>
> -- Gaby

Interesting. Both should work.

Ralf




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> Le samedi 07 octobre 2006 ? 05:41 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
> > The current rule in src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet does not work
> > during re-make. Namely, SPAD compiler fails when NRLIB directory
> > already exists. I propose to add the following:
> >=20
> > --- pp/build-improvements/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-09-29 21:0=
9:42.000000000 +0200
> > +++ build-improvements.nn5/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-07 05:=
32:35.000000000 +0200
> > @@ -1631,6 +1631,7 @@
> >  .PRECIOUS: ${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o
> >  ${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o: ${MID}/%.spad
> >  	@ echo compiling $*.spad to $*.NRLIB
> > +	rm -rf ${MID}/$*.NRLIB
> >  	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
> >  	   if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
> >  	    echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS}  ; \
> >=20
> > One could also modify SPAD compiler to remove existing NRLIB,=20
>=20
> I think it's the same bug than the bug #302 . See the thread
> "Cannot Rename The File Erlib To NRLIB"  in Axiom-developer mail
> Archives. Anyway this issue has to be discussed since it has a lot of
> implications in the interpreter; some functions need to be modified,
> they use (probe-file ...) and (delete-file ...) on directories. There is
> apparently no consensus, as far as I know, on what 'probe-file' and
> 'delete-file' have to do for directories so...
>=20
> Greg
>

Yes, the problem is related to bug #302.  I agree that fix for bug #302
needs some discussion.  On the other hand I think that last reason I gave
(forcing build failure in case of compilation errors) alone justifies
the patch. Concerning bug #302, I would globally replace probe-file and
delete-file by axiom-probe-file and axiom-delete-file and then I would
use whatever host Lisp offers so that axiom-probe-file behaves on
directories the same as on files (and the similarely for axiom-delete-file).

> P.S. I have encountered this issue in a totally different context this
> is why I say a lot of implications; grep the interpreter for probe-file
> and delete-file. I have fixed some parts of the interpreter in this
> regard but probably not all, my aim was/is different.

When you speak about "a lot of implications" do you mean that probe-file
is used in many places or that it is used in may different ways?  In the
first case a wrapper called axiom-probe-file would be a perfect solution.

>=20
> > but
> > remove NRLIB from the makefile has advantage that build will fail
> > if NRLIB can not be recompiled -- currently build goes on using
> > stale NRLIB, which is very confusing for testing.
> >=20
>=20
>=20

--=20
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl=20



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> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
>=20
> | The current rule in src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet does not work
> | during re-make. Namely, SPAD compiler fails when NRLIB directory
> | already exists. I propose to add the following:
<snip>
>=20
> OK for silver and build-improvements, please add a changeLog entry.
>=20

Commited on build-improvements (before I read message from Vanuxem Gr=E9gor=
y).


--=20
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl=20



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Le samedi 07 octobre 2006 =E0 16:41 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :=20
> > Le samedi 07 octobre 2006 ? 05:41 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
> > > The current rule in src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet does not work
> > > during re-make. Namely, SPAD compiler fails when NRLIB directory
> > > already exists. I propose to add the following:
> > >=20
> > > --- pp/build-improvements/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-09-29 =
21:09:42.000000000 +0200
> > > +++ build-improvements.nn5/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-07=
 05:32:35.000000000 +0200
> > > @@ -1631,6 +1631,7 @@
> > >  .PRECIOUS: ${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o
> > >  ${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o: ${MID}/%.spad
> > >  	@ echo compiling $*.spad to $*.NRLIB
> > > +	rm -rf ${MID}/$*.NRLIB
> > >  	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
> > >  	   if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
> > >  	    echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS}  ; \
> > >=20
> > > One could also modify SPAD compiler to remove existing NRLIB,=20
> >=20
> > I think it's the same bug than the bug #302 . See the thread
> > "Cannot Rename The File Erlib To NRLIB"  in Axiom-developer mail
> > Archives. Anyway this issue has to be discussed since it has a lot of
> > implications in the interpreter; some functions need to be modified,
> > they use (probe-file ...) and (delete-file ...) on directories. There=
 is
> > apparently no consensus, as far as I know, on what 'probe-file' and
> > 'delete-file' have to do for directories so...
> >=20
> > Greg
> >
>=20
> Yes, the problem is related to bug #302.  I agree that fix for bug #302
> needs some discussion.  On the other hand I think that last reason I ga=
ve
> (forcing build failure in case of compilation errors) alone justifies
> the patch. Concerning bug #302, I would globally replace probe-file and
> delete-file by axiom-probe-file and axiom-delete-file and then I would
> use whatever host Lisp offers so that axiom-probe-file behaves on
> directories the same as on files (and the similarely for axiom-delete-f=
ile).
>=20
> > P.S. I have encountered this issue in a totally different context thi=
s
> > is why I say a lot of implications; grep the interpreter for probe-fi=
le
> > and delete-file. I have fixed some parts of the interpreter in this
> > regard but probably not all, my aim was/is different.
>=20
> When you speak about "a lot of implications" do you mean that probe-fil=
e
> is used in many places or that it is used in may different ways?  In th=
e
> first case a wrapper called axiom-probe-file would be a perfect solutio=
n.

I meant they are used in many places and we will need, I think, to check
the use of probe-file and delete-file everywhere (for example `egrep -ri
'probe_?-file' src/interp/ |wc -l` returns 84  (in Gold)) .

Yes, I think too that a wrapper function/macro would be a good idea
thought I don't think it will have to be used everywhere. This leads to
other questions such that will we use the function directoryp, which is
a wrapper to a C functions defined in src/lib/cfuns-c.c.pamphlet, in
this wrapper? A new function has been added to the system package of
GCL, namely 'stat', so will we rewrite a full lisp directoryp function
and remove this C function from Axiom? Will this wrapper (axiom-probe|
delete-file) use stat or directoryp etc, etc...

> > > but
> > > remove NRLIB from the makefile has advantage that build will fail
> > > if NRLIB can not be recompiled -- currently build goes on using
> > > stale NRLIB, which is very confusing for testing.

I do not use the build-improvements branch but I'm really interested in i=
t if these
modifications allows users to use modified category/domain/package in src=
/algebra
after a recompilation of Axiom (only modified files of course). This is n=
ot the
case actually as far as I know.

Thanks for your work,

Greg




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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Fix for bug 294
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Below is a fix for bug 294.  Some extra comments:

1) the patch correct problem in goodCoef, there are other bugs in
   integrator, I will work on them separately.
2) AFAICS goodCoef is an optimization, it should be safe to return
   "failed" always (but since we take different path in the other
   part we hit different bugs).  I tried to preserve optimization
   done by goodCoef whenever it is safe.
3) I would like to use higher level constructs, but I keept hitting
   into problems with SPAD compiler, so finally I used a rather low
   level way
4) without the patch the AXIOM recurses infinitely handling the 
   few integrals below (first I previosly gave in the bug report).
   With the patch the first two are correctly handled, the other
   two quickly hit into unimplemented part of Risch algorithm:

integrate(simplify(D((log((x)+1)+a)/(2*((((x*(exp(exp(x)/2)))-(a*(x+exp(-x/2))))*(2/x))-3)), x)), x)

integrate(simplify(D((((((sqrt((sqrt((x)/(x)))/(a)))/(sqrt(x)))*((((x)-(1))*(1))-(1)))*(a))*(((log((x)*((a)/(log(sqrt((x)/(((x)*(x))*(x))))))))+(((x)/(sqrt(2)))*(exp(exp(x)))))+((x)-(exp(2)))))+((1)*(2)), x)), x)

-- Function not supported by Risch d.e.
integrate(simplify(D(((((((a)/(sqrt((sqrt(x))-(x))))+(x))*(x))+(1))*((((((1)-(log(x)))+(1))*(exp(exp(2))))*(2))*(((1)*((log((a)*(1)))*(a)))*(exp(((exp(x))*(x))-(exp(x)))))))*(a), x)), x)
-- intef: failed1 - cannot handle that integrand
integrate(simplify(D((((((((x)+(log(x)))*(((x)/(x))/(sqrt(x))))/((a)*(x)))-(sqrt(sqrt(((exp(x))/((x)-(sqrt(x))))-(log(x))))))-(x))-(((exp((sqrt(log(1)))*((x)*((x)/(log(x))))))/(exp((1)+((2)-((x)-(x))))))*(((((x)/(1))-(log(x)))*(1))+(((2)+(a))/(exp(sqrt(x)))))))/(2), x)), x)


------------ The patch ---------------


--- pp/build-improvements/src/algebra/efstruc.spad.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:57:48.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn5/src/algebra/efstruc.spad.pamphlet	2006-10-07 19:51:18.000000000 +0200
@@ -347,8 +347,28 @@
       true
 
     goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
-      for i in minIndex v .. maxIndex v for k in l repeat
-        is?(k, s) and
+      -- if k1 is part of k2 we should not express k1 in terms of k2
+      -- (othewise we would get infinite recursion)
+      -- below we impose a stronger condition: we require
+      -- height(k1) to be maximal
+      h:NonNegativeInteger := 0
+      j:Integer := 0
+      ll : List K := [];
+      for k in l repeat
+        if (is?(k, "log"::SY) or is?(k, "exp"::SY)
+            or is?(k, "tan"::SY) or is?(k, "atan"::SY)) then
+              ll := [k, :ll]
+              h := h + 1
+      not (h = (maxIndex(v) - minIndex(v) + 1)) => "failed"
+      h := 0
+      ll := reverse(ll)
+      for i in minIndex v .. maxIndex v for k in ll repeat
+        h1 := height(k)
+        if (h1 > h) then
+          j := i
+          h := h1
+      for i in minIndex v .. maxIndex v for k in ll repeat
+        is?(k, s) and (i >= j) and
            ((r:=recip(qelt(v,i))) case Q) and
             (retractIfCan(r::Q)@Union(Z, "failed") case Z)
               and gdCoef?(qelt(v, i), v) => return([i, k])

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] rule for making NRLIBs
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Vanuxem Gr=E9gory wrote:
> Le samedi 07 octobre 2006 ? 16:41 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :=20
> > When you speak about "a lot of implications" do you mean that probe-file
> > is used in many places or that it is used in may different ways?  In the
> > first case a wrapper called axiom-probe-file would be a perfect solutio=
n.
>=20
> I meant they are used in many places and we will need, I think, to check
> the use of probe-file and delete-file everywhere (for example `egrep -ri
> 'probe_?-file' src/interp/ |wc -l` returns 84  (in Gold)) .
>=20
> Yes, I think too that a wrapper function/macro would be a good idea
> thought I don't think it will have to be used everywhere. This leads to
> other questions such that will we use the function directoryp, which is
> a wrapper to a C functions defined in src/lib/cfuns-c.c.pamphlet, in
> this wrapper? A new function has been added to the system package of
> GCL, namely 'stat', so will we rewrite a full lisp directoryp function
> and remove this C function from Axiom? Will this wrapper (axiom-probe|
> delete-file) use stat or directoryp etc, etc...
>

I think that we should use wrapper "everywhere" -- the semantics of
probe-file looks insane on Unix-like systems (including Windows and
Mac OSX).  ATM wrapper should use directoryp, later we can change
it to accomodate other Lisps.  I did not look deeply into the problem,
but what I wrote is just common sense: we want to push down and
encapsulate system specific details.
=20
> > > > but
> > > > remove NRLIB from the makefile has advantage that build will fail
> > > > if NRLIB can not be recompiled -- currently build goes on using
> > > > stale NRLIB, which is very confusing for testing.
>=20
> I do not use the build-improvements branch but I'm really interested in i=
t if these
> modifications allows users to use modified category/domain/package in src=
/algebra
> after a recompilation of Axiom (only modified files of course). This is n=
ot the
> case actually as far as I know.
>=20

ATM build-improvements has problem with stamp files -- I have to romove
them manually.  There is also problem with databases: when I changed
signatures of some functions I got compiler errors (Bill Page posted
a procedure how to handle this, I will try it).  But for the goodCoef
patch I was able to use make (after removing the stamp). It recompiled
about 20 files which took about 5 minutes and after that the change
was effective.

--=20
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl=20



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] rule for making NRLIBs
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Vanuxem Gr=E9gory <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr> writes:

| Le samedi 07 octobre 2006 =E0 05:41 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
| > The current rule in src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet does not work
| > during re-make. Namely, SPAD compiler fails when NRLIB directory
| > already exists. I propose to add the following:
| >=20
| > --- pp/build-improvements/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-09-29 21:0=
9:42.000000000 +0200
| > +++ build-improvements.nn5/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-07 05:=
32:35.000000000 +0200
| > @@ -1631,6 +1631,7 @@
| >  .PRECIOUS: ${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o
| >  ${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o: ${MID}/%.spad
| >  	@ echo compiling $*.spad to $*.NRLIB
| > +	rm -rf ${MID}/$*.NRLIB
| >  	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
| >  	   if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
| >  	    echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS}  ; \
| >=20
| > One could also modify SPAD compiler to remove existing NRLIB,=20
|=20
| I think it's the same bug than the bug #302 . See the thread
| "Cannot Rename The File Erlib To NRLIB"  in Axiom-developer mail
| Archives.

I don't know whether they are the same bug -- they might have similar
symptoms though.

Definitely I believe the Makefile should clean up the directory.

There are various places in the Makefiles with questionable rules,
whereby when the build is stopped (for whatever reason) and after
afterwards resumed it changes the environment in ways that would not
happen "normally".

I don't believe the checked patch fixes bug #302 because I don't think
they are the same bug.  Even when bug #302 is fixed (within
GCL/Axiom), I do believe the additional Makefile rule should be there.


-- Gaby



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Commited on build-improvements

Thanks!

-- Gaby



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hemmecke@risc.uni-linz.ac.at writes:

| > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| >
| > | How to correctly define nested function in algebra file?  I changed
| > | beggining of goodCoef (in efstruc.spad.pamphlet) to the following:
| > |
| > |     goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
| > |       -- if k1 is part of k2 we should not express k1 in terms of k2
| > |       -- (othewise we would get infinite recursion)
| > |       -- below we impose a stronger condition: we require
| > |       -- height(k1) to be maximal
| > |       h:NonNegativeInteger := 0
| > |       j:Integer := 0
| > |       transcendental?(k:K):Boolean ==
| > |          is?(k, "log"::SY) => true
| > |          is?(k, "exp"::SY) => true
| > |          is?(k, "tan"::SY) => true
| > |          is?(k, "atan"::SY) => true
| > |          false
| > |       ll := [k for k in l | transcendental?(k)]
| > |
| > | that compiles OK, but at runtime I get:
| > |
| > |    >> System error:
| > |    The function |EFSTRUC;transcendental?| is undefined.
| >
| > Try:
| >     goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
| >       -- if k1 is part of k2 we should not express k1 in terms of k2
| >       -- (othewise we would get infinite recursion)
| >       -- below we impose a stronger condition: we require
| >       -- height(k1) to be maximal
| >       h:NonNegativeInteger := 0
| >       j:Integer := 0
| >       ll := [k for k in l | transcendental?(k)] where
| >          transcendental?(k:K):Boolean ==
| >             is?(k, "log"::SY) => true
| >             is?(k, "exp"::SY) => true
| >             is?(k, "tan"::SY) => true
| >             is?(k, "atan"::SY) => true
| >             false
| >       ll
| >
| > -- Gaby
| 
| Interesting. Both should work.

The second works for me, the first seems not; so what do we do when
the map disagrees with the terrain? Swiss Army says "trust the terrain" :-)

The One Way to resolve this is to fix the interpreter/compiler.

-- Gaby



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

[...]

| 4) without the patch the AXIOM recurses infinitely handling the 
|    few integrals below (first I previosly gave in the bug report).
|    With the patch the first two are correctly handled, the other
|    two quickly hit into unimplemented part of Risch algorithm:

I can see the effect of the patch.  Could you explain what the
problems was and why the proposed patch fixes it?  That should appear
somewhere in the pmaphlet file.

When we get to final bits, you would also want to put your examples in
the testsuite.

[...]

|      goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
| -      for i in minIndex v .. maxIndex v for k in l repeat
| -        is?(k, s) and
| +      -- if k1 is part of k2 we should not express k1 in terms of k2
| +      -- (othewise we would get infinite recursion)
| +      -- below we impose a stronger condition: we require
| +      -- height(k1) to be maximal
| +      h:NonNegativeInteger := 0
| +      j:Integer := 0
| +      ll : List K := [];
| +      for k in l repeat
| +        if (is?(k, "log"::SY) or is?(k, "exp"::SY)
| +            or is?(k, "tan"::SY) or is?(k, "atan"::SY)) then
| +              ll := [k, :ll]
| +              h := h + 1
| +      not (h = (maxIndex(v) - minIndex(v) + 1)) => "failed"
| +      h := 0
| +      ll := reverse(ll)
| +      for i in minIndex v .. maxIndex v for k in ll repeat
| +        h1 := height(k)
| +        if (h1 > h) then
| +          j := i
| +          h := h1
| +      for i in minIndex v .. maxIndex v for k in ll repeat
| +        is?(k, s) and (i >= j) and
|             ((r:=recip(qelt(v,i))) case Q) and
|              (retractIfCan(r::Q)@Union(Z, "failed") case Z)
|                and gdCoef?(qelt(v, i), v) => return([i, k])

I much prefer the "functional" style you suggested earlier.

Thanks!

-- Gaby



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I wrote:
> ATM build-improvements has problem with stamp files -- I have to romove
> them manually.  There is also problem with databases: when I changed
> signatures of some functions I got compiler errors (Bill Page posted
> a procedure how to handle this, I will try it).  But for the goodCoef
> patch I was able to use make (after removing the stamp). It recompiled
> about 20 files which took about 5 minutes and after that the change
> was effective.
> 

I forgot to add that before patching Makefile AXIOM kept using old
algebra version.  But I noticed that using old versions were correlated
with errors in the trace log.  After I changed Makefile I am just
getting build failures.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Nested functions in SPAD
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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Try:
>     goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
>       -- if k1 is part of k2 we should not express k1 in terms of k2
>       -- (othewise we would get infinite recursion)
>       -- below we impose a stronger condition: we require
>       -- height(k1) to be maximal
>       h:NonNegativeInteger := 0
>       j:Integer := 0
>       ll := [k for k in l | transcendental?(k)] where
>          transcendental?(k:K):Boolean ==
>             is?(k, "log"::SY) => true
>             is?(k, "exp"::SY) => true
>             is?(k, "tan"::SY) => true
>             is?(k, "atan"::SY) => true
>             false
>       ll
> 

This gives me the same error.  I will try to produce a self contained
example for issue tracker.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| I wrote:
| > ATM build-improvements has problem with stamp files -- I have to romove
| > them manually.  There is also problem with databases: when I changed
| > signatures of some functions I got compiler errors (Bill Page posted
| > a procedure how to handle this, I will try it).  But for the goodCoef
| > patch I was able to use make (after removing the stamp). It recompiled
| > about 20 files which took about 5 minutes and after that the change
| > was effective.
| > 
| 
| I forgot to add that before patching Makefile AXIOM kept using old
| algebra version.  But I noticed that using old versions were correlated
| with errors in the trace log.  After I changed Makefile I am just
| getting build failures.

That needs further investigation.

I know there are some rules in the Makefile (I can't name which from
the top of my head) that do surprising things they shouldn't -- they
are bugs from my point of view.  I found them the hard way, but
postponed fixiing them because they need more discussions, and I was
waiting for more appropriate time [when I have lot :-)]

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Nested functions in SPAD
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > Try:
| >     goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
| >       -- if k1 is part of k2 we should not express k1 in terms of k2
| >       -- (othewise we would get infinite recursion)
| >       -- below we impose a stronger condition: we require
| >       -- height(k1) to be maximal
| >       h:NonNegativeInteger := 0
| >       j:Integer := 0
| >       ll := [k for k in l | transcendental?(k)] where
| >          transcendental?(k:K):Boolean ==
| >             is?(k, "log"::SY) => true
| >             is?(k, "exp"::SY) => true
| >             is?(k, "tan"::SY) => true
| >             is?(k, "atan"::SY) => true
| >             false
| >       ll
| > 
| 
| This gives me the same error.

Very interesting -- it worked for me.  Presumably, the other one works
for Ralf.

| I will try to produce a self contained  example for issue tracker.

Definitely.

-- Gaby




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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Nested functions in SPAD
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Hmmm, I don't say again that it should work both ways... I got misled by
SPAD. Arrrhhh. Sorry, I did not look into the sources first time.

If I am correct then we are talking about
src/algebra/efstruc.spad.pamplet.
(Gold, Silver, and build-improvements are identical)

But there I read

  goodCoef : (Vector Q, List K, SY) ->
                                 Union(Record(index:Z, ker:K), "failed")

And the original function was/is ...

    goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
      for i in minIndex v .. maxIndex v for k in l repeat
        is?(k, s) and
           ((r:=recip(qelt(v,i))) case Q) and
            (retractIfCan(r::Q)@Union(Z, "failed") case Z)
              and gdCoef?(qelt(v, i), v) => return([i, k])
      "failed"

Now, in the function below, I cannot see, that the resulting type is
matched. It looks like 'List K' is returned. As a compiler I would reject
the code below.

But of course, the compiler might think that the code below is just
ANOTHER function with another result type. Still then the compiler should
tell that

   goodCoef : (Vector Q, List K, SY) ->
                                 Union(Record(index:Z, ker:K), "failed")

is not implemented.

Or did Walter completely re-program the function (and signature)?

Ralf

> Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
>> Try:
>>     goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
>>       -- if k1 is part of k2 we should not express k1 in terms of k2
>>       -- (othewise we would get infinite recursion)
>>       -- below we impose a stronger condition: we require
>>       -- height(k1) to be maximal
>>       h:NonNegativeInteger := 0
>>       j:Integer := 0
>>       ll := [k for k in l | transcendental?(k)] where
>>          transcendental?(k:K):Boolean ==
>>             is?(k, "log"::SY) => true
>>             is?(k, "exp"::SY) => true
>>             is?(k, "tan"::SY) => true
>>             is?(k, "atan"::SY) => true
>>             false
>>       ll
>>
>
> This gives me the same error.  I will try to produce a self contained
> example for issue tracker.
>
> --
>                               Waldek Hebisch
> hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Axiom-developer mailing list
> Axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiom-developer
>





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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 2006 22:08:09 +0200 (CEST)
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Nested functions in SPAD
From: hemmecke@risc.uni-linz.ac.at
To: "Gabriel Dos Reis" <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
>
> | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> | > Try:
> | >     goodCoef(v, l, s) ==
> | >       -- if k1 is part of k2 we should not express k1 in terms of k2
> | >       -- (othewise we would get infinite recursion)
> | >       -- below we impose a stronger condition: we require
> | >       -- height(k1) to be maximal
> | >       h:NonNegativeInteger := 0
> | >       j:Integer := 0
> | >       ll := [k for k in l | transcendental?(k)] where
> | >          transcendental?(k:K):Boolean ==
> | >             is?(k, "log"::SY) => true
> | >             is?(k, "exp"::SY) => true
> | >             is?(k, "tan"::SY) => true
> | >             is?(k, "atan"::SY) => true
> | >             false
> | >       ll
> | >
> |
> | This gives me the same error.
>
> Very interesting -- it worked for me.  Presumably, the other one works
> for Ralf.

No. Sorry for the misunderstanding. What I wanted to say was that both
forms should work. I simply assumed it should work as in Aldor. But as I
said in my last mail, there seems to be an error with the types...

Ralf

Aldor-Example...

>aldor -grun -laldor aaa.as
[2,3,5,3,5,7]
[2,3,5,3,5,7]

---BEGIN aaa.as
#include "aldor"
#include "aldorio"

foo(l: List Integer): List Integer == {
	baz?(i: Integer): Boolean == member?(i, [2,3,5,7,11]);
	[i for i in l | baz? i];
}

bar(l: List Integer): List Integer == [i for i in l | baz? i] where
	baz?(i: Integer): Boolean == member?(i,  [2,3,5,7,11]);

main(): () == {
	import from Integer;
	l: List Integer := [1,2,3,4,5,1,3,5,7];
	stdout << foo l << newline;
	stdout << bar l << newline;
}
main();
---END aaa.as




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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] rule for making NRLIBs
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Le samedi 07 octobre 2006 =E0 20:46 +0200, Gabriel Dos Reis a =E9crit :=20
> Vanuxem Gr=E9gory <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr> writes:

[...]

> | I think it's the same bug than the bug #302 . See the thread
> | "Cannot Rename The File Erlib To NRLIB"  in Axiom-developer mail
> | Archives.
>=20
> I don't know whether they are the same bug -- they might have similar
> symptoms though.

Yes

> Definitely I believe the Makefile should clean up the directory.

It's possible, this is why I did not discuss this point. There is a
problem when a file in src/algebra/ is modified (see another mail), the
object file is not copied in mnt/$SYS/algebra.

> There are various places in the Makefiles with questionable rules,
> whereby when the build is stopped (for whatever reason) and after
> afterwards resumed it changes the environment in ways that would not
> happen "normally".

I encountered this issue.

> I don't believe the checked patch fixes bug #302 because I don't think
> they are the same bug. =20

It's possible too, I don't know, I only test the build process of this
branch every 10-30 days. I wanted to say "it could be the same bug" and
not "I think it is", sorry. I don't know exactly what you mean with
"checked patch", if it is the patch on the IssueTracker, it's not the
way to go, even Bill was not happy with this patch (I will not discuss
here this patch but 'directory' and 'truename' are from my point of view
completely buggy in gcl 2.6).


Greg




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Le samedi 07 octobre 2006 =E0 20:36 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :=20
> Vanuxem Gr=E9gory wrote:
[...]=20
> > Le samedi 07 octobre 2006 ? 16:41 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :=20
> > > When you speak about "a lot of implications" do you mean that probe=
-file
> > > is used in many places or that it is used in may different ways?  I=
n the
> > > first case a wrapper called axiom-probe-file would be a perfect sol=
ution.
> >=20
> > I meant they are used in many places and we will need, I think, to ch=
eck
> > the use of probe-file and delete-file everywhere (for example `egrep =
-ri
> > 'probe_?-file' src/interp/ |wc -l` returns 84  (in Gold)) .
> >=20
> > Yes, I think too that a wrapper function/macro would be a good idea
> > thought I don't think it will have to be used everywhere. This leads =
to
> > other questions such that will we use the function directoryp, which =
is
> > a wrapper to a C functions defined in src/lib/cfuns-c.c.pamphlet, in
> > this wrapper? A new function has been added to the system package of
> > GCL, namely 'stat', so will we rewrite a full lisp directoryp functio=
n
> > and remove this C function from Axiom? Will this wrapper (axiom-probe=
|
> > delete-file) use stat or directoryp etc, etc...
> >
>=20
> I think that we should use wrapper "everywhere" -- the semantics of
> probe-file looks insane on Unix-like systems (including Windows and
> Mac OSX).  ATM wrapper should use directoryp, later we can change
> it to accomodate other Lisps.  I did not look deeply into the problem,
> but what I wrote is just common sense: we want to push down and
> encapsulate system specific details.

This is exactly why I think this issue need to be discussed. Tim, Gaby
and any others can you share your point of view?

Greg




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Vanuxem Gr=E9gory <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr> writes:

[...]

| > Definitely I believe the Makefile should clean up the directory.
|=20
| It's possible, this is why I did not discuss this point. There is a
| problem when a file in src/algebra/ is modified (see another mail), the
| object file is not copied in mnt/$SYS/algebra.

Thanks for mentioning this; I have not encountered it yet.  I put it
on my TODO list.

-- Gaby



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Greg,

> It's possible, this is why I did not discuss this point. There is a
> problem when a file in src/algebra/ is modified (see another mail), the
> object file is not copied in mnt/$SYS/algebra.

Changes in  src/algebra should be properly copied. 
However the src/algebra/Makefile works in a different way than the
rest of the system as most of it is dynamically generated. Perhaps
there is a problem with the dynamically generated rules. If I get
a chance this weekend I'll look into it.

t



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] rule for making NRLIBs
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> > I think that we should use wrapper "everywhere" -- the semantics of
> > probe-file looks insane on Unix-like systems (including Windows and
> > Mac OSX).  ATM wrapper should use directoryp, later we can change
> > it to accomodate other Lisps.  I did not look deeply into the problem,
> > but what I wrote is just common sense: we want to push down and
> > encapsulate system specific details.
> 
> This is exactly why I think this issue need to be discussed. Tim, Gaby
> and any others can you share your point of view?

This has been the traditional approach in Axiom.
That is the source of such files as vmlisp.lisp.
While this is a good short term solution which I
have used everywhere in the past it should eventually
get written out of the source. Adding layer after layer
of 'cover' code that implements past semantics eventually
makes the system harder to maintain. I'm striving to 
lower this tower as I go along with the rewrite.

That said, it is a perfectly reasonable short-term solution.

t



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patch applied to gold.
this will be available in --patch-51

t



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Could you please spend some time trying to add some
documentation to the efstruc.spad file? You clearly
understand what goodCoef does and that explanation
(along with anything else) would be useful to capture.

t



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To: "bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] RE: [M#73697383] Re: Disk-quota Request
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On 10/6/06, bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca
<bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:
> Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> > ...
> > Can we get the 1G and be done with it?
> >
>
> .. but then how would help debug the Google, svnsync, svk, and svn
> programs? ;)
>

Enough is enough.  You guys have been more than patient as our guinea pigs!

I just rsync'd your sourceforge svn repository down to my local box
(165MB), made a dumpfile from that, then did an 'svnadmin load' in our
datacenter.  Disturbingly, it still took two hours to load the history
and used up 381MB of space.  I don't know whether our size-counting
code is buggy, or if our Bigtable storage schema is just really that
bad, I'll be investigating.  It's not your problem.  :-)

You're now live... all 176 revisions are up and happy.  You're only
using 381 of 750MB of quota, so you should be fine for a good while.

Let me know if you have any more problems.

(Remember, do an https:// checkout if you intend to commit changes;
http:// checkouts produce read-only working copies.)



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"Ben Collins-Sussman" <sussman@google.com> writes:

| On 10/6/06, bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca
| <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:
| > Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > > ...
| > > Can we get the 1G and be done with it?
| > >
| >
| > .. but then how would help debug the Google, svnsync, svk, and svn
| > programs? ;)
| >
| 
| Enough is enough.  You guys have been more than patient as our guinea pigs!
| 
| I just rsync'd your sourceforge svn repository down to my local box
| (165MB), made a dumpfile from that, then did an 'svnadmin load' in our
| datacenter.  Disturbingly, it still took two hours to load the history
| and used up 381MB of space.  I don't know whether our size-counting
| code is buggy, or if our Bigtable storage schema is just really that
| bad, I'll be investigating.  It's not your problem.  :-)
| 
| You're now live... all 176 revisions are up and happy.  You're only
| using 381 of 750MB of quota, so you should be fine for a good while.

Many thanks for your patience and help in resolving this.

Best,

-- Gaby



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

> How to correctly define nested function in algebra file?  I changed
> beggining of goodCoef (in efstruc.spad.pamphlet) to the following:

Unfortunately, the compiler is quite buggy... The way I do it usually is

        f: (FROM1, FROM2, FROM3) -> TO := 
          (op1(#1, #2, #3); 
           op2(#1, #2, #3); 
           resultOp(#1, #2, #3))

That is, I don't use pile syntax.

#1, #2, etc. are the arguments you are going to hand to f.

Martin




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"Ben Collins-Sussman" <sussman@google.com> writes:
...

Does this mean that the Axiom sources are available from Google?
(I have been unable to use svn to check out from the silver repository
at Sourceforge for a while.)  If so, how do you do it?

Jay



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Quoting Jay Belanger <belanger@truman.edu>:

> Does this mean that the Axiom sources are available from Google?
> (I have been unable to use svn to check out from the silver repository
> at Sourceforge for a while.)  If so, how do you do it?

http://code.google.com/p/axiom/source



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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

> Quoting Jay Belanger <belanger@truman.edu>:
>
>> Does this mean that the Axiom sources are available from Google?
>> (I have been unable to use svn to check out from the silver repository
>> at Sourceforge for a while.)  If so, how do you do it?
>
> http://code.google.com/p/axiom/source

Thanks; I'm getting it now.  This should probably go in the wiki.
Is this the silver branch?  (I'm guessing yes from the Changelog, but
I don't know how to be sure.)

Jay



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>> http://code.google.com/p/axiom/source
>
> Thanks; I'm getting it now.

This seems to have the old "unwritable .svn directories" problem.



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Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at> writes:

| Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| 
| > How to correctly define nested function in algebra file?  I changed
| > beggining of goodCoef (in efstruc.spad.pamphlet) to the following:
| 
| Unfortunately, the compiler is quite buggy...

yes; I was trying to debug this stuff; I did not succeed for lack of
patience and time.  I find that the translation into s-expression is
done too eargerly, which make diagnostics very terrible.

-- gaby



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I had fixed that in r75 under build-improvements. I guess, it is still 
not in the trunk (Silver).

Ralf

On 10/10/2006 09:57 PM, Jay Belanger wrote:
>>> http://code.google.com/p/axiom/source
>> Thanks; I'm getting it now.
> 
> This seems to have the old "unwritable .svn directories" problem.



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>> http://code.google.com/p/axiom/source
> 
> Thanks; I'm getting it now.  This should probably go in the wiki.

Could someone more familiar with the google repository add an entry on

http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomSources

I lost track.

And as the most important point, it should be stated how the google repo 
relates to the sourceforge repo and who is going to keep them in sync or 
not in sync.

> Is this the silver branch?  (I'm guessing yes from the Changelog, but
> I don't know how to be sure.)

Very good question. If even Axiom developers don't know then we are in 
big trouble.

Ralf



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Dear Tim,

I would like to see my guessing package included in the Axiom distribution.

Thus, please tell me *before* you submit the next patch to the repositories,
since I would like to send you the newest set of pamphlets. I'm adding
documentation and removing bugs nearly every day, and since MathAction is a bit
difficult to keep updated, I'm not doing it daily.

I hope the build issues are already resolved?

Thanks,

Martin




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great. please tar up the files and send them to me. 
i'll start adding them tonight and see what we get.

t



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Tim --

  The file g-boot.boot (and similar ones from src/interp/) contains a
cache of the translated code to Common Lisp, with the note:

   Note that the {\bf g-boot.boot.pamphlet} file contains both the
   original {\bf boot} code and a saved copy of the {\bf g-boot.clisp}
   code. We need to keep the translated code around so we can bootstrap
   the system. In other words, we need this boot code translated so we
   can build the boot translator.


However, the comment is not accurate because, in the build process we
ahev already built bootsys (from src/boot) and that does not involve
g-boot.boot.  

My suspicion is that g-boot.boot is probably for old boot.
Its Common Lisp cache can be safely deleted, as bootsys from src/boot
translates that file without any trouble.  That would be less "cruft"
to retain in the repo -- and it leads to less confusion.

-- Gaby



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Alfredo,

On October 12, 2006 11:59 AM you wrote:
> 
> Do you have plans on how to keep SourceForge and Google in Sync.
> I see some people on the list asking about this and to put links
> in MathAction.
> 
> If you want me to take care of this let me know.
> 

If you could update the wiki with likes to the Google repository,
an explanation of what it contains, and how we expect people to
use it, that would be great! :-)

I have set up a cron job using SVK sync and smerge on axiom-developer
to keep the google repository up-to-date with SourceForge. So far I
have only implemented a one-way merge from SourceForge into Google.
Changes made at Google will be retained but not automatically merged
back to SourceForge.

Currently the cron job is set to run once a day at about 3:30 AM
Central time (- 0500 UTC).

I have just run it so google should now be current with Google.

I tried to use 'svnsync' but this failed because it is not possible
to use it "after the fact". Our earlier attempt to use it also
failed but then due to space restrictions. The current repository was
built directly using svnadmin by Ben Collins-Sussman at Google
(Thanks, Ben!). But that means we can not use svnsync with it either.

SVK smerge seems like a good option. And it can be used in both
directions if we decide we also want to merge changes at the Google
repostiory back to the repository on SourceForge.

One of our original motivations for creating the repository on Google
Code was because of network problems accessing the SVN repository at
SourceForge. I would really like to know if the Google version works
any better. So far my limited experience with it does not make be very
optimistic. During the creation the the initial SVK mirror for the
Google respository (which is a necessary preliminary step for using
SVK smerge) I had to restart the SVK sync three times due to network
errors (result truncated) identical to the ones I have experienced
while downloading from SourceForge. My fear is that represents some
basic and persistent flaw in SVN - however unlikely that might seem
since SVN is now rather mature and widely used. But not everyone is
trying to use SVN with the https/webdav protocol...

Anyway any reports of success or failure checking out or committing
to the Google repository would be very useful.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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On 10/12/06, Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:
> My fear is that represents some
> basic and persistent flaw in SVN - however unlikely that might seem
> since SVN is now rather mature and widely used. But not everyone is
> trying to use SVN with the https/webdav protocol...

Actually, securityspace reports over 40,000 instances of public
subversion repositories using Apache as their server.  Graph is here:

 http://subversion.tigris.org/svn-dav-securityspace-survey.html

If anything, the problems you've seen are more likely to represent a
problem with the way Google has tuned its datacenter and network
traffic, than a problem with subversion itself.

>
> Anyway any reports of success or failure checking out or committing
> to the Google repository would be very useful.

I had no problems checking out a working copy of your Google
repository, all 165MB of it.



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> > Does this mean that the Axiom sources are available from Google?
> > (I have been unable to use svn to check out from the silver repository
> > at Sourceforge for a while.)  If so, how do you do it?
> 
> http://code.google.com/p/axiom/source

My attempt to check out this code fails with:

svn: PROPFIND request failed on /p/axiom/source
svn: PROPFIND of '/p/axiom/source': 400 Bad Request (http://code.google.com)

t



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
...
>> http://code.google.com/p/axiom/source
>
> My attempt to check out this code fails with:
>
> svn: PROPFIND request failed on /p/axiom/source
> svn: PROPFIND of '/p/axiom/source': 400 Bad Request (http://code.google.com)

I've had no problem with
# svn checkout http://axiom.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ axiom

Jay



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Alfredo,

On October 12, 2006 11:57 AM you wrote:
> 
> Hi Bill,
> 
> Wondering if you are back from Sage Days, and how did it go?

Yes, I am back. I would say that it went "well". And I have a
lot more to write about it when I have more time and energy -
maybe tomorrow.

In short: The Sage developers are certainly an enthusiastic,
energetic and ambitious group. I think Sage development benefits
greatly by being based in a university post-graduate environment
and with a lead developer who seems very much "in-tune" with
current open source development practices. I wish Axiom had an
active sponsor of this kind...

But I was also a little disappointed because although one of
the main slogan's of the Sage project goes something like:
"We are inventing the Car, not re-inventing the Wheel", it seems
to me that there is a danger that Sage development has already
started to slide down the slippery slope to that part of any
system that necessarily touches the ground. :-)

I think one of the main contributions of Sage to computer algebra
so far has been to demonstrate that it is possible to produce a
system in a widely used modern high level language (Python) which
incorporates and integrates a diverse group of existing computer
algebra systems into a coherent whole. In principle this permits
one to learn a single user interface language but still benefit
from the huge intellectual (and often financial) investments into
these other systems. I am very much in favour of building this sort
of bridge as a way to preserve and benefit from this prior work.

Of course Sage needs some native symbolic computation ability in
order to serve this intermediate role. But following the initial
success at this endeavour, it seems that it is nearly impossible
to resist the urge to attempt to re-implement in a more "Pythonic"
way, the same features that are already available in the base
packages.

For example, there was a lot of discussion at the meeting about
implementing Padic integers as a computational domain in Sage.
I don't know anything about Padic integers but during a quick
presentation of the new Axiom interface that I wrote during
the coding sprints I demonstrated that Axiom actually already
implements at least one of the methods of representing Padics
that was being discussed. Of course, as Axiom developers we
already know that the Axiom algebra library covers large (and
sadly, mostly undocumented) area of computational mathematics.
I do sincerely hope that making Axiom more accessible to the
Sage developers will help prevent some re-invention of these
"wheels".

At this meeting there was a lot of talk about the need to
write Sage-specific code using Pyrex (Python to "C" compiler)
http://www.cosc.canterbury.ac.nz/greg.ewing/python/Pyrex
for such things as linear algebra and efficient exact integer
arithmetic. And even discussion about the possibility of modifying
Pyrex to make it a more suitable compiler language for Sage.
As interesting as these projects might be to the current Sage
developers, to me this seems to be a path too near the old
slippery slope.

> Sorry I was not able to go...the real world hit me in the
> face :-S.

Yes, life does seem to that to do that to us sometimes. ;) I
hope things improve for you. I am sure you would have enjoyed
the meeting.

> 
> I saw that in the Sage Wiki that you have a prototype of the
> interface Axiom/Sage.

Yes. You can run it on axiom-developer.org although it is
still very preliminary and easy to break. Try it like this:

  $ sage

--------------------------------------------------------
| SAGE Version 1.4, Build Date: 2006-10-05             |
| Distributed under the GNU General Public License V2. |
--------------------------------------------------------

experimental

sage: ex1=axiom('x^%i')
sage: ex1

   %i
  x
 
Type: Expression Complex Integer

sage: ex1.integrate('x')


      %i log(x)
  x %e
  -------------
      1 + %i
 
Type: Union(Expression Complex Integer,...)

sage: exit

The preliminary code for the Axiom interface is here:

http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/page

It is a patch to the latest 1.4 release of Sage.

> 
> Were you able to distribute DoyenCDs at the conference?
> 

I did discuss the DoyenCD during the last part of my talk
(when you were scheduled to speak!). There was some interest
but it was clearly not the focus of most of the people at this
meeting. Most of the people there were Sage developers - not
Sage users - and most were experienced with building and using
Sage from scratch in the Linux environment. Given a need, they
would also probably build Axiom in this manner. So a LiveCD is
only of strategic interest as a means of making Sage (and other
computer algebra software) more accessible to less experienced
users. So in the end I did not distribute any copies of the CD.
But perhaps that is a good thing since we should soon have the
new version of the CD which includes Sage support in the Doyen
wiki. Right? :-)

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Doing:

alfredo@ALDEBARAN:~/sandbox$ svn co http://code.google.com/p/axiom/source
svn: PROPFIND request failed on '/p/axiom/source'
svn: PROPFIND of '/p/axiom/source': 400 Bad Request (http://code.google.com)

but this is not the address to the repository. Probably it was not
clear on previous emails. The way to checkout Axiom from Google is:

svn checkout http://axiom.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ axiom

Like Jay, the checkout works fine for me.

Regards,

Alfredo

On 10/12/06, Jay Belanger <belanger@truman.edu> wrote:
>
> root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
> ...
> >> http://code.google.com/p/axiom/source
> >
> > My attempt to check out this code fails with:
> >
> > svn: PROPFIND request failed on /p/axiom/source
> > svn: PROPFIND of '/p/axiom/source': 400 Bad Request (http://code.google.com)
>
> I've had no problem with
> # svn checkout http://axiom.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ axiom
>
> Jay
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Axiom-developer mailing list
> Axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiom-developer
>



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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

[...]

| SVK smerge seems like a good option. And it can be used in both
| directions if we decide we also want to merge changes at the Google
| repostiory back to the repository on SourceForge.

Hey, if you decide two-way checking please do let me know so that I
know what I'm doing.  I'm pretty sure I'll confuse people and confuse
myself, which probably is why I would prefer "one master" repo, and
others act as mirror.

-- Gaby



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On 13 Oct 2006 05:54:44 +0200, Gabriel Dos Reis
<gdr@integrable-solutions.net> wrote:
> "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:
>
> [...]
>
> | SVK smerge seems like a good option. And it can be used in both
> | directions if we decide we also want to merge changes at the Google
> | repostiory back to the repository on SourceForge.
>
> Hey, if you decide two-way checking please do let me know so that I
> know what I'm doing.  I'm pretty sure I'll confuse people and confuse
> myself, which probably is why I would prefer "one master" repo, and
> others act as mirror.

I think the idea of a master repo and mirrors is good. The question is
which one should be the master repo???



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"Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com> writes:

| On 13 Oct 2006 05:54:44 +0200, Gabriel Dos Reis
| <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> wrote:
| > "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:
| >
| > [...]
| >
| > | SVK smerge seems like a good option. And it can be used in both
| > | directions if we decide we also want to merge changes at the Google
| > | repostiory back to the repository on SourceForge.
| >
| > Hey, if you decide two-way checking please do let me know so that I
| > know what I'm doing.  I'm pretty sure I'll confuse people and confuse
| > myself, which probably is why I would prefer "one master" repo, and
| > others act as mirror.
| 
| I think the idea of a master repo and mirrors is good. The question is
| which one should be the master repo???

Currently, SF is the master.

However, as I understand it key Axiom developers are having trouble
checking out from that repo, and probably checking in.  I, personally,
don't experience any _check-in_ problem, nor any _update_.  But I did
experience the checkout (not update, but checkout of entire branches)
problem using bare SVN from SF's own machines and some of the machines
I have at work.  I know my students reported several checkout
failures, so I end up putting the tarball on my web site. 

I use SVK for work, so I can convince it to relocate the repo assuming
Google's and SF's are in perfect sync.  But, of course the truly
egocentric way for me to go would be to suggest SF :-)
I'm not familiar with Google's setting.  What I do appreciate about SF
is the ability to have an admin shell, which truly is handy.  That is
my real argument for making SF repo the master.  I don't see how that
solves Tim's issue.  Now, I'm starting seeing the value of the master
repo being at axiom-developer.org ;-)

-- Gaby



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Tim --

I have a question about a difference in "load" behaviour bewteen a
clean lisp image (GCL), and depsys (and any image derived from it).

In a clean image, when I say '(load "foo")', Lisp will try to search
from the current directory -- just what is expected.

However, depsys will start search from $AXIOM/.. -- which is less expected.
I spent quite lot of time figuring out where that behaviour is
implemented in the files that make up depsys, but I was unsuccessful.
Do you have an idea whether that behaviour is implemented?
I looked many times at reroot, but could not deduce how it might be
responsible.  It looks like there is an Axiom code that fundamentally
changes GCL's usual load procedure.

Here is an excerpt of a ssession that reproduces the problem.



    [0:44]% echo '()' > foo.lsp
    [0:44]% ./build/i686-suse-linux/bin/lisp
    GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.7 CLtL1    Aug 27 2006 19:51:04
    Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd)
    Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (READLINE BFD UNEXEC)
    Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible
    license
    Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

    Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.

    >(load "foo")

    Loading foo.lsp
    Finished loading foo.lsp
    T

    >(quit)
    [0:45]% ./build/i686-suse-linux/bin/depsys 
    GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.7 CLtL1    Aug 27 2006 19:51:04
    Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd)
    Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (READLINE BFD UNEXEC)
    Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible
    license
    Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

    Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.

    >(load "foo")

    Error: Cannot open the file /home/gdr/build/axiom/target/foo.
    Fast links are on: do (si::use-fast-links nil) for debugging
    Error signalled by EVAL.
    Broken at APPLY.  Type :H for Help.


Thanks,

-- Gaby



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the checkout worked for me also, once i used the correct repository path.

t



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| the checkout worked for me also, once i used the correct repository path.

this moment must be celebrated :-)

-- Gaby



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Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

| Tim --
| 
| I have a question about a difference in "load" behaviour bewteen a
| clean lisp image (GCL), and depsys (and any image derived from it).
| 
| In a clean image, when I say '(load "foo")', Lisp will try to search
| from the current directory -- just what is expected.
| 
| However, depsys will start search from $AXIOM/.. -- which is less expected.
| I spent quite lot of time figuring out where that behaviour is
| implemented in the files that make up depsys, but I was unsuccessful.
| Do you have an idea whether that behaviour is implemented?
| I looked many times at reroot, but could not deduce how it might be
| responsible.  It looks like there is an Axiom code that fundamentally
| changes GCL's usual load procedure.


Let me add this (from a debug session -- i hate those).

#0   APPLY {loc0=#<compiled-function system:universal-error-handler>,loc1=:error,loc2=nil,l...} [ihs=12]
#1   APPLY {loc0=#<compiled-function system:universal-error-handler>,loc1=:error,loc2=nil,l...} [ihs=11]
#2   LAMBDA {"/home/gdr/build/axiom/target/foo"=nil,} [ihs=8] 
#3   LOAD {loc0=#p"/home/gdr/build/axiom/target/foo.lsp",loc1=t,loc2=nil,loc3=:error,loc4=...} [ihs=7]
#4   EVAL {loc0=nil,loc1=nil,loc2=nil,loc3=#<compiled-function load>}
 [ihs=6]
#5   TOP-LEVEL {loc0=nil,loc1=0,loc2=0,loc3=nil,loc4=nil,loc5=nil,loc6=nil,loc7="/usr/local/lib...} [ihs=5]
#6   FUNCALL {loc0=#<compiled-function system:top-level>} [ihs=4]
NIL

So, it looks like some code effectively called the "real" load with the
wrong prefix.

-- gaby



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>Another issue has been to checkout from sourceforge from a windows
>box. Repeated attempts failed every time. I will try this for Google.

>>OK, let us know.

Ok, here we go again.

In a checkout of silver trunk from sourceforge in a windows box I get
this error:

Error: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/axiom/!svn/vcc/default'
Error: REPORT of '/svnroot/axiom/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read
chunk delimiter: Secure connection truncated
(https://svn.sourceforge.net)

Now, a checkout of Google trunk I get this other error:

Error: In directory 'C:\Documents and
Settings\alfredo\Desktop\axiom\axiom\src\hyper\pages'
Error: Can't copy 'C:\Documents and
Settings\alfredo\Desktop\axiom\axiom\src\hyper\pages\.svn\tmp\text-base\poly.pht.svn-base'
to 'C:\Documents and
Settings\alfredo\Desktop\axiom\axiom\src\hyper\pages\.svn\tmp\poly.pht.tmp.tmp':
The system cannot find the file
Error: specified.

I am using:

TortoiseSVN 1.4.0, Build 7501 - 32 Bit , 2006/09/15 21:34:55
Subversion 1.4.0,
apr 0.9.12
apr-iconv 0.9.7
apr-utils 0.9.12
berkeley db 4.4.20
neon 0.25.5
OpenSSL 0.9.8b 04 May 2006
zlib 1.2.3

Please let me know if anyone can reproduce this.

PS: Sorry Ben to include you in this email. Just in case you have any
idea on this problem.



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version 181 again broke build without noweb.  The following change
fixed the problem for me:

Index: Makefile.pamphlet
===================================================================
--- Makefile.pamphlet	(wersja 181)
+++ Makefile.pamphlet	(kopia robocza)
@@ -46,7 +46,10 @@
 
 .PHONY: all
 all: all-recursive
-all-ax: @axiom_required_build_utils@
+
+all-recursive: @axiom_required_build_utils@
+
+all-ax:
 	@ echo 1 making a ${SYS} system, PART=${PART} SUBPART=${SUBPART}
 	@ echo 2 Environment ${ENV}
 	@ $(MAKE) stamp-rootdirs


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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On 10/13/06, Alfredo Portes <doyenatccny@gmail.com> wrote:

> In a checkout of silver trunk from sourceforge in a windows box I get
> this error:
>
> Error: REPORT request failed on '/svnroot/axiom/!svn/vcc/default'
> Error: REPORT of '/svnroot/axiom/!svn/vcc/default': Could not read
> chunk delimiter: Secure connection truncated
> (https://svn.sourceforge.net)

I can't speak for sourceforge, but this is definitely a server error.
Some sort of crash is happening on their server, probably due to
misconfiguration of their proxies.  It should be reported, especially
if it's reproducible.



>
> Now, a checkout of Google trunk I get this other error:
>
> Error: In directory 'C:\Documents and
> Settings\alfredo\Desktop\axiom\axiom\src\hyper\pages'
> Error: Can't copy 'C:\Documents and
> Settings\alfredo\Desktop\axiom\axiom\src\hyper\pages\.svn\tmp\text-base\poly.pht.svn-base'
> to 'C:\Documents and
> Settings\alfredo\Desktop\axiom\axiom\src\hyper\pages\.svn\tmp\poly.pht.tmp.tmp':
> The system cannot find the file
> Error: specified.


This is a classic windows error:  you're trying to check out a
directory which contains two files that differ only in case.
(POLY.pht and poly.pht).  This works fine on Unix systems, but not on
win32 filesystems which are case-insensitive.  The two files simply
cannot coexist in the same directory on windows... windows considers
them to be the same file.

You need to clean up the files in that repository directory, so that
the directory can happily exist on win32.    Either have a unix person
delete redundant files (are POLY.pht and poly.pht identical?), or
rename them.



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Broken hypertex
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Playing with build-improvements I have noticed that hypertex is broken:
clicking on "NAG link" and then on "Browser pages for individual routines"
freezes hypertex windows and gives the following error message at
Axiom command line:

   >> System error:
   Unexpected end of #<string-input stream from "                ...">.

I have tracked down the error to src/interp/server.boot.pamphlet.  In
the function serverReadLine we have:

    ....
    action = $LispCommand =>
      $NeedToSignalSessionManager := true
      stringBuf := MAKE_-STRING $sockBufferLength
      sockGetString($MenuServer, stringBuf, $sockBufferLength)
      form := unescapeStringsInForm READ_-FROM_-STRING stringBuf
      protectedEVAL form
    ....

After return from sockGetString content of stringBuf is all spaces,
and READ-FROM-STRING can not find anything to read and signals error.

I have put diagnostic printout in the function get_string_buf (in 
src/lib/sockio-c.c.pamphlet) and from that I see that get_string_buf
is called and gets correct data.  So the problem seem to be in
gcl foreign function interface.

I have seen this behaviour on two different machines, one 32-bit Athlon,
another 64-bit Athlon, both using gcl bundled with Axiom.


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| version 181 again broke build without noweb.

Breakage should be expected (but not actively sought for) on such an
experimental branch, especially while I'm removing lots of "junks"
(and introducing new ones).  The dependencies at top-level (and
sub-directories) are not quite right yet.  
Your fix is OK to install.  Please add an explanation in the pamphlet
stressing that core build utils (e.g. noweb) need to be built before
walking down other sub-directories, hence the dependency.

-- Gaby



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Playing with build-improvements I have noticed that hypertex is broken:

Is that reproducible with silver?

-- Gaby



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> Your fix is OK to install.  Please add an explanation in the pamphlet
> stressing that core build utils (e.g. noweb) need to be built before
> walking down other sub-directories, hence the dependency.
> 
> -- Gaby
> 

Commited

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| > Your fix is OK to install.  Please add an explanation in the pamphlet
| > stressing that core build utils (e.g. noweb) need to be built before
| > walking down other sub-directories, hence the dependency.
| > 
| > -- Gaby
| > 
| 
| Commited

Thank you!

-- Gaby



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> > Now, a checkout of Google trunk I get this other error:
> >
> > Error: In directory 'C:\Documents and
> > Settings\alfredo\Desktop\axiom\axiom\src\hyper\pages'
> > Error: Can't copy 'C:\Documents and
> > Settings\alfredo\Desktop\axiom\axiom\src\hyper\pages\.svn\tmp\text-base\poly.pht.svn-base'
> > to 'C:\Documents and
> > Settings\alfredo\Desktop\axiom\axiom\src\hyper\pages\.svn\tmp\poly.pht.tmp.tmp':
> > The system cannot find the file
> > Error: specified.
>
>
> This is a classic windows error:  you're trying to check out a
> directory which contains two files that differ only in case.
> (POLY.pht and poly.pht).  This works fine on Unix systems, but not on
> win32 filesystems which are case-insensitive.  The two files simply
> cannot coexist in the same directory on windows... windows considers
> them to be the same file.

Thank you Ben.

> You need to clean up the files in that repository directory, so that
> the directory can happily exist on win32.    Either have a unix person
> delete redundant files (are POLY.pht and poly.pht identical?), or
> rename them.

Tim, can this be done without breaking something on Axiom? The two
files appear to be different.



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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | Playing with build-improvements I have noticed that hypertex is broken:
> 
> Is that reproducible with silver?
> 

Probably no: when I tried build-improvements with gcl-2.6.7 the problem
went away.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > 
| > | Playing with build-improvements I have noticed that hypertex is broken:
| > 
| > Is that reproducible with silver?
| > 
| 
| Probably no: when I tried build-improvements with gcl-2.6.7 the problem
| went away.

Interesting.

We have a case to investigate.  I seem to remember, but I'm not sure,
that the socket interface may have changed from 2.6.7 to 2.6.8pre.
Bill?

-- Gaby



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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

| Alfredo,
| 
| On October 12, 2006 11:57 AM you wrote:
| > 
| > Hi Bill,
| > 
| > Wondering if you are back from Sage Days, and how did it go?
| 
| Yes, I am back. I would say that it went "well". And I have a
| lot more to write about it when I have more time and energy -
| maybe tomorrow.
| 
| In short: The Sage developers are certainly an enthusiastic,
| energetic and ambitious group. I think Sage development benefits
| greatly by being based in a university post-graduate environment
| and with a lead developer who seems very much "in-tune" with
| current open source development practices. I wish Axiom had an
| active sponsor of this kind...

Hey, you should be more kind to Tim and others :-)

[...]

| For example, there was a lot of discussion at the meeting about
| implementing Padic integers as a computational domain in Sage.
| I don't know anything about Padic integers but during a quick
| presentation of the new Axiom interface that I wrote during
| the coding sprints I demonstrated that Axiom actually already
| implements at least one of the methods of representing Padics
| that was being discussed. Of course, as Axiom developers we
| already know that the Axiom algebra library covers large (and
| sadly, mostly undocumented) area of computational mathematics.

is that what padic.spad and spadiclib.spad touch?

-- Gaby



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Le vendredi 13 octobre 2006 =E0 17:47 -0400, Alfredo Portes a =E9crit :

[...]

> > This is a classic windows error:  you're trying to check out a
> > directory which contains two files that differ only in case.
> > (POLY.pht and poly.pht).  This works fine on Unix systems, but not on
> > win32 filesystems which are case-insensitive.  The two files simply
> > cannot coexist in the same directory on windows... windows considers
> > them to be the same file.
>=20
> Thank you Ben.
>=20
> > You need to clean up the files in that repository directory, so that
> > the directory can happily exist on win32.    Either have a unix perso=
n
> > delete redundant files (are POLY.pht and poly.pht identical?), or
> > rename them.
>=20
> Tim, can this be done without breaking something on Axiom? The two
> files appear to be different.

And some other changes like this on the build-improvements branch
(ChangeLog files, at least one I think) would be a good idea. I read in
its README (TODO):

* Reorganize the makefile pamphlets so that Axiom can build without
  LaTeX or X11.

This (the X11 issue) is exactly what is needed to "merge" Axiom for
Windows and the main branch (i.e. drop the Windows branch). Some other
_small_ changes will eventually be needed.

Greg


>=20
> _______________________________________________
> Axiom-developer mailing list
> Axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiom-developer
>=20




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Vanuxem Gr=E9gory <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr> writes:

[...]

| This (the X11 issue) is exactly what is needed to "merge" Axiom for
| Windows and the main branch (i.e. drop the Windows branch). Some other
| _small_ changes will eventually be needed.

I'm not aware of those "small" changes; please could you tell me more
about those?

-- Gaby



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Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 =E0 00:32 +0200, Gabriel Dos Reis a =E9crit :
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
>=20
> | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> | > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> | >=20
> | > | Playing with build-improvements I have noticed that hypertex is b=
roken:
> | >=20
> | > Is that reproducible with silver?
> | >=20
> |=20
> | Probably no: when I tried build-improvements with gcl-2.6.7 the probl=
em
> | went away.
>=20
> Interesting.
>=20
> We have a case to investigate.  I seem to remember, but I'm not sure,
> that the socket interface may have changed from 2.6.7 to 2.6.8pre.

First, do you have installed (make install) Axiom ? If no (or may be
yes, I have never tested), there are two files named util.ht in the
sources, Tim is working on them, try the twos (try the other one i.e.
copy it to /mnt/something*, the diff and find programs will help you).
Personally I don't remember which I use but not the "regular one" since
I do not install Axiom. If this mail is unrelated to your issue after
these tests or if you do not understand it, forget this mail and sorry
for the inconvenience.

So with my version of Gold (the last)
"

BOOT>si::*gcl-extra-version*

8

~> it's gcl-2.6.8
=20
The output of =AB "NAG link" and then on "Browser pages for individual
routines" =BB is=20

There is no constructor matching pattern  "Nag*"


I have this output with Axiom Version: Axiom 3.0 Beta (February 2005)
too. It comes from a "Debian stable" package (with a little modification
(see the end of http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomBinaries)). Camm
can you look at this issue (forget the wiki bug), I did not report this
as a bug on the BTS, it seems to me that I'm alone. I can report it if
you can reproduce it.=20


Greg
=20
PS : I'm really tired it's 2:18 in France, if this is not understandable
ask me I will try to elaborate tomorrow.




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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Broken hypertex
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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> | > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> | > 
> | > | Playing with build-improvements I have noticed that hypertex is broken:
> | > 
> | > Is that reproducible with silver?
> | > 
> | 
> | Probably no: when I tried build-improvements with gcl-2.6.7 the problem
> | went away.
> 
> Interesting.
> 
> We have a case to investigate.  I seem to remember, but I'm not sure,
> that the socket interface may have changed from 2.6.7 to 2.6.8pre.
> Bill?

As I wrote in original message the problem seem to be with passing
strings from Lisp to C functions.  AFAICS sockio.lisp.pamphlet
assumes that it will pass pointer to original string buffer. But
apparently gcl passes pointer to a copy.  Code to pass strings
(in lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/cmpaux.c) changed slightly compared to
gcl-2.6.7, so maybe this is the reason.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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To: =?iso-8859-1?q?Vanuxem_Gr=E9gory?= <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Broken hypertex
References: <E1GYVPZ-0001vF-00@hera.math.uni.wroc.pl>
	<m3y7rjonix.fsf@zeus.integrable-solutions.net>
	<1160785104.2820.99.camel@ellipse>
From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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Vanuxem Gr=E9gory <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr> writes:

| Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 =E0 00:32 +0200, Gabriel Dos Reis a =E9crit :
| > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| >=20
| > | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > | > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > | >=20
| > | > | Playing with build-improvements I have noticed that hypertex is b=
roken:
| > | >=20
| > | > Is that reproducible with silver?
| > | >=20
| > |=20
| > | Probably no: when I tried build-improvements with gcl-2.6.7 the probl=
em
| > | went away.
| >=20
| > Interesting.
| >=20
| > We have a case to investigate.  I seem to remember, but I'm not sure,
| > that the socket interface may have changed from 2.6.7 to 2.6.8pre.
|=20
| First, do you have installed (make install) Axiom ?

yes -- I always use axiom.build-improvements that way :-)

| If no (or may be
| yes, I have never tested), there are two files named util.ht in the
| sources, Tim is working on them, try the twos (try the other one i.e.
| copy it to /mnt/something*, the diff and find programs will help you).
| Personally I don't remember which I use but not the "regular one" since
| I do not install Axiom. If this mail is unrelated to your issue after
| these tests or if you do not understand it, forget this mail and sorry
| for the inconvenience.
|=20
| So with my version of Gold (the last)
| "
|=20
| BOOT>si::*gcl-extra-version*
|=20
| 8
|=20
| ~> it's gcl-2.6.8
|=20=20
| The output of =AB "NAG link" and then on "Browser pages for individual
| routines" =BB is=20
|=20
| There is no constructor matching pattern  "Nag*"

I can reproduce that behaviour with the build-improvement branch (I'm
using system-installed GCL-2.6.7).  This is on i686-suse-linux.
It would seem like that is not windows-specific issue then.

| I have this output with Axiom Version: Axiom 3.0 Beta (February 2005)
| too. It comes from a "Debian stable" package (with a little modification
| (see the end of http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomBinaries)). Camm
| can you look at this issue (forget the wiki bug), I did not report this
| as a bug on the BTS, it seems to me that I'm alone. I can report it if
| you can reproduce it.=20
|=20
|=20
| Greg
|=20=20
| PS : I'm really tired it's 2:18 in France, if this is not understandable
| ask me I will try to elaborate tomorrow.

I can understand what it is like.  When I was in France [and young :-)]
I tend to work very late, almost in the central timezone.  Now that
I'm in central timezone, I feel like I work in western Europe
timezone, except when I don't because of daytime job :-)

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Broken hypertex
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To: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 =E0 02:36 +0200, Gabriel Dos Reis a =E9crit :
> Vanuxem Gr=E9gory <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr> writes:
>=20
> | Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 =E0 00:32 +0200, Gabriel Dos Reis a =E9crit=
 :
> | > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> | >=20
> | > | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> | > | > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> | > | >=20
> | > | > | Playing with build-improvements I have noticed that hypertex =
is broken:
> | > | >=20
> | > | > Is that reproducible with silver?
> | > | >=20
> | > |=20
> | > | Probably no: when I tried build-improvements with gcl-2.6.7 the p=
roblem
> | > | went away.
> | >=20
> | > Interesting.
> | >=20
> | > We have a case to investigate.  I seem to remember, but I'm not sur=
e,
> | > that the socket interface may have changed from 2.6.7 to 2.6.8pre.
> |=20
> | First, do you have installed (make install) Axiom ?
>=20
> yes -- I always use axiom.build-improvements that way :-)
>=20
> | If no (or may be
> | yes, I have never tested), there are two files named util.ht in the
> | sources, Tim is working on them, try the twos (try the other one i.e.
> | copy it to /mnt/something*, the diff and find programs will help you)=
.
> | Personally I don't remember which I use but not the "regular one" sin=
ce
> | I do not install Axiom. If this mail is unrelated to your issue after
> | these tests or if you do not understand it, forget this mail and sorr=
y
> | for the inconvenience.
> |=20
> | So with my version of Gold (the last)
> | "
> |=20
> | BOOT>si::*gcl-extra-version*
> |=20
> | 8
> |=20
> | ~> it's gcl-2.6.8
> | =20
> | The output of =AB "NAG link" and then on "Browser pages for individua=
l
> | routines" =BB is=20
> |=20
> | There is no constructor matching pattern  "Nag*"
>=20
> I can reproduce that behaviour with the build-improvement branch (I'm
> using system-installed GCL-2.6.7).  This is on i686-suse-linux.
> It would seem like that is not windows-specific issue then.
>=20
> | I have this output with Axiom Version: Axiom 3.0 Beta (February 2005)
> | too. It comes from a "Debian stable" package (with a little modificat=
ion
> | (see the end of http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomBinaries)).=20


Hmm... I forgot to say that this version use GCL-2.6.6 (this was the
main purpose of my email):

greg@ellipse:~$ axiom
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.6 CLtL1    Jan 20 2005 00:03:46
Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd)
Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (READLINE BFD UNEXEC)
Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
                        AXIOM Computer Algebra System=20
                   Version: Axiom 3.0 Beta (February 2005)
                Timestamp: Monday March 21, 2005 at 01:36:09=20




Greg




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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > 
| > | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > | > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > | > 
| > | > | Playing with build-improvements I have noticed that hypertex is broken:
| > | > 
| > | > Is that reproducible with silver?
| > | > 
| > | 
| > | Probably no: when I tried build-improvements with gcl-2.6.7 the problem
| > | went away.
| > 
| > Interesting.
| > 
| > We have a case to investigate.  I seem to remember, but I'm not sure,
| > that the socket interface may have changed from 2.6.7 to 2.6.8pre.
| > Bill?
| 
| As I wrote in original message the problem seem to be with passing
| strings from Lisp to C functions.  AFAICS sockio.lisp.pamphlet
| assumes that it will pass pointer to original string buffer. But
| apparently gcl passes pointer to a copy.  Code to pass strings
| (in lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/cmpaux.c) changed slightly compared to
| gcl-2.6.7, so maybe this is the reason.

I understand your description.  I was trying to relate it to a much
bigger picture.  I was asking Bill whether that is the incompatible
changes in GCL-2.6.8pre's socket stuff he told me about at the last  Axiom
conference call.  

It is important that as we work on "fixing" things, we do clearly
understand what we are fixing.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Broken hypertex
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From: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
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[ Charset ISO-8859-1 unsupported, converting... ]
> Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 ? 00:32 +0200, Gabriel Dos Reis a =E9crit :
> > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> >=20
> > | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> > | > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> > | >=20
> > | > | Playing with build-improvements I have noticed that hypertex is b=
roken:
> > | >=20
> > | > Is that reproducible with silver?
> > | >=20
> > |=20
> > | Probably no: when I tried build-improvements with gcl-2.6.7 the probl=
em
> > | went away.
> >=20
> > Interesting.
> >=20
> > We have a case to investigate.  I seem to remember, but I'm not sure,
> > that the socket interface may have changed from 2.6.7 to 2.6.8pre.
>=20
> First, do you have installed (make install) Axiom ? If no (or may be
> yes, I have never tested), there are two files named util.ht in the
> sources, Tim is working on them, try the twos (try the other one i.e.
> copy it to /mnt/something*, the diff and find programs will help you).
> Personally I don't remember which I use but not the "regular one" since
> I do not install Axiom. If this mail is unrelated to your issue after
> these tests or if you do not understand it, forget this mail and sorry
> for the inconvenience.
>=20
> So with my version of Gold (the last)
> "
>=20
> BOOT>si::*gcl-extra-version*
>=20
> 8
>=20
> ~> it's gcl-2.6.8
> =20
> The output of ? "NAG link" and then on "Browser pages for individual
> routines" ? is=20
>=20
> There is no constructor matching pattern  "Nag*"
>

This I consider as "normal" output.  For me the browser just freezes.
I should add that I chose this page because it is the shortest path
to freeze the browser -- I can freeze it an another pages (which=20
in earlier versions work fine).=20

Investigating further I have noticed that gcl-2.6.8pre2 in silver is=20
different then gcl-2.6.8pre in build improvements.  In particular
the function object_to_string in gcl-2.6.8pre2/o/cmpaux.c is like
gcl-2.6.7 while the version in gcl-2.6.8pre is different.

--=20
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl=20



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The axiom-developer@nongnu.org mailing list is the best forum 
for this discussion. I've taken the liberty of copying your questions
and comments to the list so we can all contribute.

Alejandro Jakubi writes:

> A short time ago, by chance, I have came across with your page about
> the Doyen project:
> 
> http://daly.axiom-developer.org/doyen/

This was the original concept slide presentation. 
It has not been updated because it has still not been realized.
There are several efforts working toward the goal and the goal
is slowly shifting as more ideas come together (e.g. Sage).






> and later on, I have been found some more information distributed in several
> places like:
> 
> http://sourceforge.net/projects/doyencd
> 
> http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/DoyenCD

DoyenCD is the sourceforge project and is, in theory, independent of
Axiom. However all of the people working on it are closely associated
with the axiom project. 






> as well as posts in doyencd-developer Archives
> (http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_id=45218), Axiom-math,
> etc.
> 
> I have also downloaded and burned the CDs from the iso files
> doyen04262005 and doyen081306.
> 
> Some comments on this subject follow in this email. And not to a
> forum/list, as I do not know which is the proper place. I see that
> http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/Doyen is not active (its last post
> was 29 Nov 2004), and doyen-developer does not seem to be right
> either as I am not developer and its archive shows answers to
> messages not there.

The primary developer, Alfredo Portes, is associated with the 
axiom-developer@nongnu.org list and most of the discussion related 
to the DoyenCD project happens here.




> Comments:
> 
> 1. Doyen and Maple ( doyencd-developer 2006-07-16)
> 
> > There are technical issues (which we do not yet know how to solve
> > since we don't have Maple) but we believe these will not be
> > difficult.
> 
> I have Maple, and I have tested a pair of things, that, I guess, are
> part of those technical issues.
> 
> a. I have booted with doyen081306, and as root copied the Maple 10
> directory of Debian Sarge 3.1 file system (/usr/local/maple10) to
> the same location on the Doyen file system. Maple worked fine (at
> least for my little test).
> 
> b. From the shell command line, a simple text file with Maple
> statements can be open by Classic or Standard (Java) GUI, with these
> statements in the worksheet, ready for execution.
> 







> >  However there are licensing issues that can take some time to resolve.
> 
> Yes, these issues are hard and I doubt that there could be any
> solution nearby. You may know that Maple 10 came with the new
> feature that its Flexlm licence file is linked to the hardware, for
> Linux its ethernet card identification. That is your licence is no
> longer yours, but only yours as long as you use a specific
> OS/hardware combination. Some changes require a new "activation" of
> the licence. And Maplesoft has committed very strongly to this
> licencing scheme. But, in particular, it makes impossible to use
> Maple on a Live CD that someone with licence may take anywhere. In
> fact, I have posted to the Mapleprimes forum:
> 
> http://www.mapleprimes.com/blog/will/news-discontinuation-of-maple-platforms
> 
> suggesting this possibility, but there was no answer.

The philosophy behind Doyen is that we are trying to create a
"computational science platform". This platform can be customized
for particular conferences. Speakers can develop literate programs 
(paper text and program code combined, ala Knuth) that run on the 
latest Doyen version. That allows the conference audience to use
the programs immediately and strongly enhances their ability to
use newly announced functionality.

In addition, the literate programming aspect of the development
keeps the research work with the program source text. That allows
people to study the theory and execute the source at the same time.
The current separation makes code nearly impossible to maintain.

Clearly this involves a lot of "assumed infrastructure". It assumes
that literate programs will show up at conferences.  Carlo Traverso
(Univ. of Pisa, Math Dept. Chair) is working to create a new, referred
Journal that accepts and reviews literate programs. These would likely
be distributed and run on a Doyen-like platform.

It also assumes that the Doyen CD contains all of the systems 
necessary to support the software requirements of various disciplines
such as math or physics. (Since each DoyenCD is specific to a field
it does not have to have all of the software for every conference).

Since Maple is one of the primary computational mathematics tools it
would be good to be able to support literate programs that implement
algorithms using Maple. 

I've had discussions with Jurgen Gerhard of Maplesoft about the
licensing issue. We do not yet have an agreed solution to the
problem. Perhaps their new licensing scheme will allow us to create
"custom" Doyen CDs that have keys which are registered to conference
attendees. That would complicate the Doyen CD production but might
make it acceptable to Maple.

Other suggestions are welcome.






> 2. I have seen posts related to short-term goals like setting up a
> local wiki And also posts related to the long-term ("The 30 Year
> Horizon"). However, I have not seen any post on a problem that affects
> this science documentation initiative already in the mid-term (few
> years), namely reproducibility. This is: the same output from the same
> input, at any time, for every calculation.
>  
> I begin with a personal example. I have used several CAS along the
> time and started using Maple in '93/94. Some ammount of my research
> of that time was done with Maple V Release 3 for Win 3.1. I have
> kept those worksheets as well as worksheets made with every version
> of Maple that I have used since then. As they kept changing the
> worksheet format, language, libraries, etc, in most of the version
> changes, I have kept installed in my disk every Maple version that I
> had. And I have moved all of them along at every machine/disk/OS
> change.  Mainly, with the purpose of being able to reproduce the
> calculations that I did time ago, the way they were done.
> 
> But obsolecence makes this scheme break down. I have found that PCs
> do not work for more than seven years, in the mean. And newer
> hardware require newer OS. But new OSs bring new library versions
> that make older aplications stop working, etc.
> 
> In particular, this obsolesce hell makes impossible to run Maple V
> Release 3 in current swift machines because of a division by
> zero/overflow error. And for Linux versions it is much worse because
> of the fast pace of change. So, while I can run under Windows XP
> Maple V Release 4 (10 years old), under a current Linux distro (as
> required for my hardware) it seems impossible to run a version older
> than 4-5 years, except for running the Windows version using Wine...
> 
> And while it could be fairly argued that this obsolecence problem is
> more acute with comercial products as vendors want to sell their
> latest versions and do not care to support old ones (under the
> upgrade! motto). The cicles of OS/hardware changes unavoidably hit
> open free software as well. And you could tell me better, for cases
> like Axiom, with a small amount of volunteer developers, where would
> you alocate those limited resources? on development or on patching
> previous versions?
> 
> More specifically, calculations made with Axiom, Maxima, etc,
> version 2006 will not be able to be reproduced within 30 years or a
> century unless you could make these 2006 version application work in
> that future OS/hardware whatever it is like, exactly the same as
> they did initially. Or if you could manage to simulate in Axiom,
> Maxima, etc, version 2036 exactly the behavior of its
> ancestor. Frankly I am pessimistic that something like that could be
> achieved.


The issue here is broader than any one particular system. I've
proposed a project called the Computer Algebra Test Suite (CATS) which
would create a taxonomy similiar to the NIST numerical math standard.
This taxonomy would be for symbolic mathematics.

CATS would consist of well-documented mathematical problems with
proven solutions. Each computational mathematics system (Axiom,
Maple, MMA, etc) would then have a "reference" set of problems that
show their solution or lack of a solution. The combination of theory,
worked examples, and running code over a broad range of problems would
guarantee that there are "standard answers" from many systems.

CATS should properly be funded by NIST or INRIA or some other large
national funding source and should enlist computational mathematicians
to submit solved, proven problems, classified within the taxonomy.

I believe that this would have the beneficial effect of making
solutions "permanent". It would have the beneficial effect of giving a
firm basis for computational mathematics. Systems could be compared,
alternative answers could be argued (related, say, to the issue of
branch cuts for example). College Curriculum committees could
standardize courses around the taxonomy. System independent theory and
documentation could arise. Testing would be improved and the expertise
necessary for testing could be leveraged by several systems. The
ultimate benefit would be stable, reliable, reproducable results
within the bounds of the standard.

The 30 year horizon view demands some solution like CATS.




Of course, funding such an effort is highly unlikely.  NIST had no
money for new research the year I planned to propose such work.
Non-commercial, research funding for computational mathematics in the
U.S. seems unlikely. The NSF will not fund research in areas where
there is commercial activity even if it can be argued that this
standardization effort will never happen otherwise. Since I am
not associated with a European academy INRIA is out.  Commercial
funding also seems unlikely because it gives away competitive
advantage if you are free to use other systems with the guarantee that
they give standard answers (although being able to decide the "standard"
answer certainly gives an advantage).




I have collected the regression test suites from various systems and
started on the classification. When sufficiently far along I'll create
a new sourceforge project and hope to attract people to the effort.
My current effort involves a taxonomy of cases and solutions within the 
Risch/Trager/Bronstein integration algorithm.




> But if reproducibility of code execution cannot be implemented for
> more than a few years, the whole project of documenting papers with
> code looses a good amount of its appeal, at least in my vision. It
> may work in the short term, eg. at a conference as you say, but not
> as an enhacement of the current archiving systems, in the long
> term. I can take a book or paper written over a century ago, read it
> and reproduce the hand calculations that the author did then (in
> fact I have done so). But will a document containing computer
> calculations made today be reproduced automatically by the devices
> of the next century or beyond?

If you still have the bootable Doyen CD from the conference (and
the hardware can support it, perhaps in a virtual machine) then,
yes, you can still reproduce it. 

But the reality is no, you won't be able to reproduce it unless
we start thinking about the 30 year horizon issues. If something
like a CATS standard existed then you could guarantee that the
algorithms would still give the same answer on whatever system
you use. 

At the moment we are in the same position in computational
mathematics that we were with floating point systems in the early
60 and 70s. Every manufacturer tries to be clever and make their
own version. We need a standardization effort such as the one
led by Kahan but in the computational mathematics area. 





> 3. I was attracted to the idea of Doyen CD at first because it was
> suggested in http://daly.axiom-developer.org/doyen/ that it brings
> many CAS (presumably in the recent versions) already installed:
> 
> "Rosetta is a collection of free and open source computer algebra systems.
> There are, at this time, approximately 100 such packages."
> ...
> "IDEA 5: Combine Rosetta and Quantian
> 
> Now we begin to combine ideas. The combination of the Rosetta idea
> and the Quantian idea gives us a bootable CD for computer algebra."
> 
> etc. But doyen04262005 brings just these systems: Axiom, Yacas,
> Octave, Maxima and Magnus, as far as I could see, and doyen081306
> Axiom, Maxima and Magnus.
> 
> I have to say that I was a little disappointed with what I have
> found inside.
> 

Many years ago I used to create and distribute "Rosetta CDs" which
contained all of the available systems. When Axiom was released I
dropped the Rosetta effort to bring Axiom back to life.

Doyen is the merger of the Rosetta CD idea, the wiki idea, the
literate programming idea, and the Live CD idea. It has taken time 
to create, almost exclusively the work of Alfredo Portes and Bill
Page. The few systems that are currently on the CD is not an
indication of future direction but a limitation of the effort to a
small number of testbed systems.

There are a lot of little complexities that need to be addressed.  The
original system was based on Knoppix (Debian) but in order to have
buy-in from RedHat it was retargetted to Redhat/Fedora. (It is hoped
that RedHat could be convinced to "sponsor" the distribution of these
Doyen scientific platform CDs at many computational science
conferences.) 

The wiki requires a local web server and a fair amount of
coordination. In addition, the wiki needs to know how to pass
information into and collect information from various systems.





I understand your disappointment but frankly I think the issue is
more related to your expectations than to the reality. I'm amazed
at the amount of work, the quality of the work, and the synergy of
effort from all of the people involved.

This is a brand new field, the collision of mathematics and computers.
Computational mathematics will be here forevermore, we're at the very
beginning of its history, and you're trying to measure it against
mathematics, a centuries-old field.

Try to keep your eyes on the 30 year horizon and ignore the short
term issues as they will be solved eventually. (Harder to do than
it looks when there is a broken system in front of me :-))

Tim Daly






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Date: Fri, 13 Oct 2006 22:21:56 -0400
From: "Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com>
To: daly@axiom-developer.org
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Alejandro,

Good to hear that you are interested on the Doyen idea. Please
subscribe to this list so you can be up to date with the project.

> > and later on, I have been found some more information distributed in several
> > places like:
> >
> > http://sourceforge.net/projects/doyencd

This page surely should be updated.

> > http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/DoyenCD

Any comment you post into this page (wiki) gets mailed to the
axiom-developer mailing list. Feel free to give your opinions on
things you would like to see in the LiveCD or issues you confronted.

> > Some comments on this subject follow in this email. And not to a
> > forum/list, as I do not know which is the proper place. I see that
> > http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/Doyen is not active (its last post
> > was 29 Nov 2004), and doyen-developer does not seem to be right
> > either as I am not developer and its archive shows answers to
> > messages not there.

This page was the initial layout of the project. It contains the
initial ideas from Tim Daly and Bill Page. I really would like to use
this page to present the future ideas and goals of the project. Maybe
you can help with this :-).

> > a. I have booted with doyen081306, and as root copied the Maple 10
> > directory of Debian Sarge 3.1 file system (/usr/local/maple10) to
> > the same location on the Doyen file system. Maple worked fine (at
> > least for my little test).

very interesting.

> > 3. I was attracted to the idea of Doyen CD at first because it was
> > suggested in http://daly.axiom-developer.org/doyen/ that it brings
> > many CAS (presumably in the recent versions) already installed: [...]
> > etc. But doyen04262005 brings just these systems: Axiom, Yacas,
> > Octave, Maxima and Magnus, as far as I could see, and doyen081306
> > Axiom, Maxima and Magnus.
> > I have to say that I was a little disappointed with what I have
> > found inside.

Well, it depends on what you wanted to find inside Doyen :-). The lack of maybe
certain programs is compensated by other factors (A Wiki capable of
supporting literate programming and inline calculations.).  The
initial idea was to have a set of programs that could be added to the
wiki. This takes some time, because every system has different syntax
and output.

But stay tuned things are going to get better... :-)

With the work of Bill Page and the Sage Project
(http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ ), the Doyen CD will have
support for many other systems. The Sage project is trying to unify
all this different CA systems into one common framework (similar in
principle to Doyen). Having Sage inside Doyen means in theory that
Doyen will inherit any new system that is added to Sage.

One thing that we have lack is feedback, like yours, proposing things
to be added to Doyen. Please let me know what programs you would like
to see included, and I will do everything possible to add them (given
the space 700 MB). Maybe, it is time to create a Doyen DVD if the
amount of systems grow.

If you would like to contribute to the project, just let me know.

Thank you very much,

Alfredo Portes



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From: CY <smustudent1@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: doyen
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On Friday 13 October 2006 21:18, root wrote:

> Clearly this involves a lot of "assumed infrastructure". It assumes
> that literate programs will show up at conferences.  Carlo Traverso
> (Univ. of Pisa, Math Dept. Chair) is working to create a new, referred
> Journal that accepts and reviews literate programs. These would likely
> be distributed and run on a Doyen-like platform.

Very interesting!  Out of curiosity, what would be the licensing conditions 
for the papers and code in this journal?  Could they be incorporated into the 
Axiom system?

> Since Maple is one of the primary computational mathematics tools it
> would be good to be able to support literate programs that implement
> algorithms using Maple.
>
> I've had discussions with Jurgen Gerhard of Maplesoft about the
> licensing issue. We do not yet have an agreed solution to the
> problem. Perhaps their new licensing scheme will allow us to create
> "custom" Doyen CDs that have keys which are registered to conference
> attendees. That would complicate the Doyen CD production but might
> make it acceptable to Maple.

Perhaps it would be simpler to have a license server running at the conference 
which the Doyen CDs for that conference would query in order to activate 
Maple?  That might be less work, since it would only require one server and 
the CD being (slightly) smart.

In the long run I would think the 30 year horizon would be better served by 
encouraging computation mathematics to center on open source platforms for 
research work, but I concede the viability of that approach is not yet 
demonstrated.

> > 2. I have seen posts related to short-term goals like setting up a
> > local wiki And also posts related to the long-term ("The 30 Year
> > Horizon"). However, I have not seen any post on a problem that affects
> > this science documentation initiative already in the mid-term (few
> > years), namely reproducibility. This is: the same output from the same
> > input, at any time, for every calculation.

This is an interesting problem in general, and I would argue it cannot be 
supported by the current computational infrastructure.

As your own story demonstrates, computer algebra software must rest on 
supporting programs, and changes or breakage in those layers impacts the 
computer algebra as well.  Very broadly, the stack is:

Computer algebra software
                   |
Implementation Language (Lisp, in our case.  GCL adds additional 
requirements.)
                   |
    Operating System, drivers
                   |
      Physical Hardware

We don't control most of these layers, and there are relatively few guarantees 
in terms of behavior or consistency.  The Physical Hardware has to satisfy 
fairly rigorous performance and consistency criteria in order to function on 
even a basic level, but the operating system doesn't really do so.  Lisp has 
the ANSI standard, but Axiom is not current written in ANSI lisp.  And our 
internal languages, BOOT and SPAD, have no specification.  All of this makes 
things more difficult.

The only solution I can see which might come even close to addressing this is 
to provide formal proofs of behavior for key behaviors at all layers, both 
behaviors provided and behaviors required.  Then any new system or 
implementation which can produce proofs supporting those behaviors can be 
trusted.

This would require a hardening of the semantics of languages used to implement 
the foundations, and extensive formal proof work for both language designs 
and implementations.  While I personally find this idea interesting for the 
purpose of being able to truly re-use and trust code in the future, there 
does not seem to be much motivation on the commercial side.  It would be 
monumental and very expensive, and current solutions are "good enough".

> > upgrade! motto). The cicles of OS/hardware changes unavoidably hit
> > open free software as well. And you could tell me better, for cases
> > like Axiom, with a small amount of volunteer developers, where would
> > you alocate those limited resources? on development or on patching
> > previous versions?

Open source software in general can track changes to the underlying systems, 
and a behavior change from one version to the next would be regarded as a 
bug. (Or maybe a fixed bug, depending.)  New versions would contain patches 
to new systems.

> > More specifically, calculations made with Axiom, Maxima, etc,
> > version 2006 will not be able to be reproduced within 30 years or a
> > century unless you could make these 2006 version application work in
> > that future OS/hardware whatever it is like, exactly the same as
> > they did initially. Or if you could manage to simulate in Axiom,
> > Maxima, etc, version 2036 exactly the behavior of its
> > ancestor. Frankly I am pessimistic that something like that could be
> > achieved.

One doesn't always want to achieve that.  The first question to be asked 
should be "is this new behavior wrong, or was the old behavior wrong?"  (In 
more subtle cases - obviously a crash is wrong.)  It is possible the 2006 
result was wrong.  That's actually an objection I have heard in the past to 
computer algebra - "how do I know it's right?"  In my opinion answering that 
question is the biggest challenge computer algebra will face going forward.

That this question must be asked is unfortunate, but the trustworthy 
infrastructure that would allow us to to guarantee consistent and correct 
behavior just doesn't exist yet.

> > etc. But doyen04262005 brings just these systems: Axiom, Yacas,
> > Octave, Maxima and Magnus, as far as I could see, and doyen081306
> > Axiom, Maxima and Magnus.
> >
> > I have to say that I was a little disappointed with what I have
> > found inside.

FWIW, I think it is safe to say that Axiom and Maxima represent the two most 
powerful general purpose open source computer algebra systems available. 

To me, the real frustration is that there should be so many different systems 
implementing what are in effect different pieces of the same puzzle.  
Different conventions and "environmental" assumptions (some of which might 
not even be noticed) make moving from one system to another difficult as a 
general problem.  Why shouldn't it be possible to do all of this work inside 
one larger, robust, and powerful framework?  Then each new algorithm and tool 
would be immediately available for use in any new work.

Axiom's design gives me hope for this goal - it appears to be designed 
generally enough that it can scale.  But there are many years of work ahead 
to make it a well documented and robust system.

Cheers,
CY



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Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 =E0 03:09 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
[...]=20
> > =20
> > The output of ? "NAG link" and then on "Browser pages for individual
> > routines" ? is=20
> >=20
> > There is no constructor matching pattern  "Nag*"
> >
>=20
> This I consider as "normal" output.  For me the browser just freezes.
> I should add that I chose this page because it is the shortest path
> to freeze the browser -- I can freeze it an another pages (which=20
> in earlier versions work fine).=20
>=20
> Investigating further I have noticed that gcl-2.6.8pre2 in silver is=20
> different then gcl-2.6.8pre in build improvements.  In particular
> the function object_to_string in gcl-2.6.8pre2/o/cmpaux.c is like
> gcl-2.6.7 while the version in gcl-2.6.8pre is different.

Exactly, a typo (& instead of %), no ? I think Camm read this mailing
list but writing directly to him would be a good idea.

Greg




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Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

| Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:
| 
| | Tim --
| | 
| | I have a question about a difference in "load" behaviour bewteen a
| | clean lisp image (GCL), and depsys (and any image derived from it).
| | 
| | In a clean image, when I say '(load "foo")', Lisp will try to search
| | from the current directory -- just what is expected.
| | 
| | However, depsys will start search from $AXIOM/.. -- which is less expected.
| | I spent quite lot of time figuring out where that behaviour is
| | implemented in the files that make up depsys, but I was unsuccessful.
| | Do you have an idea whether that behaviour is implemented?
| | I looked many times at reroot, but could not deduce how it might be
| | responsible.  It looks like there is an Axiom code that fundamentally
| | changes GCL's usual load procedure.
| 
| 
| Let me add this (from a debug session -- i hate those).
| 
| #0   APPLY {loc0=#<compiled-function system:universal-error-handler>,loc1=:error,loc2=nil,l...} [ihs=12]
| #1   APPLY {loc0=#<compiled-function system:universal-error-handler>,loc1=:error,loc2=nil,l...} [ihs=11]
| #2   LAMBDA {"/home/gdr/build/axiom/target/foo"=nil,} [ihs=8] 
| #3   LOAD {loc0=#p"/home/gdr/build/axiom/target/foo.lsp",loc1=t,loc2=nil,loc3=:error,loc4=...} [ihs=7]
| #4   EVAL {loc0=nil,loc1=nil,loc2=nil,loc3=#<compiled-function load>}
|  [ihs=6]
| #5   TOP-LEVEL {loc0=nil,loc1=0,loc2=0,loc3=nil,loc4=nil,loc5=nil,loc6=nil,loc7="/usr/local/lib...} [ihs=5]
| #6   FUNCALL {loc0=#<compiled-function system:top-level>} [ihs=4]
| NIL
| 
| So, it looks like some code effectively called the "real" load with the
| wrong prefix.

OK.  The bug surely is in initroot and friends.

For example

    >>vmlisp::$current-directory

    "/home/gdr/build/axiom/target/i686-suse-linux"
    >>*default-pathname-defaults*

    #p"/home/gdr/build/axiom/target/i686-suse-linux"

None these two variables has a correct value according to the
documentation found in bookvol5.

   The [[*default-pathname-defaults*]] defaults common lisp variable is
   set in [[restart]] to the current directory in most cases. If we are
   working in Lucid Common Lisp ([[:lucid]]) on an IBM/370 mainframe
   ([[:ibm/370]]) then it is set to the empty string. Using Lucid on a
   mainframe seems to use the variable [[vmlisp::$current-directory]].


further down the road, I read:

   \subsection{vmlisp::\$current-directory}
   When running in Lucid Common Lisp ([[:lucid]]) on an IBM/370 mainframe
   ([[:ibm/370]]) this variable is used in place of the
   [[*default-pathname-defaults*]] common lisp variable.
   Otherwise this variable is
   set to the empty string in [[restart]].

   The [[reroot]] function sets this variable to the value of
   [[$spadroot]] which itself has the value of the argument to the
   [[reroot]] function. Since the argument to the [[reroot]] function is
   an string which represents an absolute pathname pointing to AXIOM the
   net result is that the [[$current-directory]] is set to point to the
   shell [[AXIOM]] variable.

   So during execute both [[$current-directory]] and [[$spadroot]] reflect
   the value of the [[AXIOM]] shell variable.


It does not seem to me that the variavle $current-directory has a
clearly defined semantics.  The documentation appears to be a
description of the current code without saying whether the code
implements the semantics designed for the variable, or whether it is
the result of "evolving" semantics , e.g. patches over patches.
I have trouble understading why a variable named "current-directory"
would point to something that is not the current directory, and
duplicate the role of $spadroot.

Tim?

-- Gaby



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On October 14, 2006 11:15 AM Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> 
> Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:
> 
> | Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:
> | 
> | | Tim --
> | | 
> | | I have a question about a difference in "load" behaviour
> | | bewteen a clean lisp image (GCL), and depsys (and any image
> | | derived  from it).
> | | 
> | | In a clean image, when I say '(load "foo")', Lisp will 
> | | try to search from the current directory -- just what is
> | | expected.
> | | 
> | | However, depsys will start search from $AXIOM/.. -- which 
> | | is less expected.
> ...

I think that the dependency on the $AXIOM environment variable
should be removed and the expected behaviour restored. This
variable is an unnecesary complication and source of error.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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> Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 ? 03:09 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
> > Investigating further I have noticed that gcl-2.6.8pre2 in silver is=20
> > different then gcl-2.6.8pre in build improvements.  In particular
> > the function object_to_string in gcl-2.6.8pre2/o/cmpaux.c is like
> > gcl-2.6.7 while the version in gcl-2.6.8pre is different.
>=20
> Exactly, a typo (& instead of %), no ? I think Camm read this mailing
> list but writing directly to him would be a good idea.
>=20

To summarize: both gcl-2.6.7 and gcl-2.6.8pre2 pass address of actual
data (which is what Axiom expects), gcl-2.6.8pre in build-improvements
copies strings and passes address of the copy (which breaks hypertex
interface).  When I change object_to_string in gcl-2.6.8pre to match
that of gcl-2.6.7 (or gcl-2.6.8pre2) hypertex works.

Since gcl-2.6.8pre2 seem to be latest gcl version Camm can probably
just do nothing (just remember so that problem is not re-introduced
later).

Concerning build-improvements: I can use gcl-2.6.7 when testing hypertex.

--=20
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl=20



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> > | | Tim --
> > | | 
> > | | I have a question about a difference in "load" behaviour
> > | | bewteen a clean lisp image (GCL), and depsys (and any image
> > | | derived  from it).
> > | | 
> > | | In a clean image, when I say '(load "foo")', Lisp will 
> > | | try to search from the current directory -- just what is
> > | | expected.
> > | | 
> > | | However, depsys will start search from $AXIOM/.. -- which 
> > | | is less expected.
> > ...
> 
> I think that the dependency on the $AXIOM environment variable
> should be removed and the expected behaviour restored. This
> variable is an unnecesary complication and source of error.

Come on, Bill. You know how this works. Post a patch.
Advocacy is volunteering.

t



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] Broken hypertex
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On October 13, 2006 8:55 PM Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
>=20
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
>=20
> | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> | > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> | >=20
> | > | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> | > | > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> | > | >=20
> | > | > | Playing with build-improvements I have noticed that=20
> | > | > | hypertex is broken:
> | > | >=20
> | > | > Is that reproducible with silver?
> | > | >=20
> | > |=20
> | > | Probably no: when I tried build-improvements with=20
> | > | gcl-2.6.7 the problem went away.
> | >=20
> | > Interesting.
> | >=20
> | > We have a case to investigate.  I seem to remember, but=20
> | > I'm not sure, that the socket interface may have changed
> | > from 2.6.7 to 2.6.8pre. Bill?

The change in the socket interface is due only to the better
treatment of data types in 2.6.8pre and should not be the
source of any functional changes.

> |=20
> | As I wrote in original message the problem seem to be with
> | passing strings from Lisp to C functions.  AFAICS sockio.lisp.
> | pamphlet assumes that it will pass pointer to original string
> | buffer. But apparently gcl passes pointer to a copy.  Code to
> | pass strings (in lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/cmpaux.c) changed slightly
> | compared to gcl-2.6.7, so maybe this is the reason.

I think the change has been quite substantial. See the diff output
below.

>=20
> I understand your description.  I was trying to relate it to a
> much bigger picture.  I was asking Bill whether that is the
> incompatible changes in GCL-2.6.8pre's socket stuff he told me
> about at the last  Axiom conference call.

No.

>=20
> It is important that as we work on "fixing" things, we do
> clearly understand what we are fixing.
>=20

I agree. I think this thread could benefit by a more explicit
reference to the source code. See below.

On October 14, 2006 6:53 AM Vanuxem Gr=E9gory wrote:
>=20
> Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 =E0 03:09 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
> [...]=20
> > > =20
> > > The output of ? "NAG link" and then on "Browser pages for=20
> > > individualroutines" ? is=20
> > >=20
> > > There is no constructor matching pattern  "Nag*"
> > >
> >=20
> > This I consider as "normal" output.  For me the browser=20
> > just freezes. I should add that I chose this page because it
> > is the shortest path to freeze the browser -- I can freeze it
> > an another pages (which in earlier versions work fine).=20
> >=20
> > Investigating further I have noticed that gcl-2.6.8pre2 in=20
> > silver is different then gcl-2.6.8pre in build improvements.
> > In particular the function object_to_string in gcl-2.6.8pre2/o/
> > cmpaux.c is like gcl-2.6.7 while the version in gcl-2.6.8pre
> > is different.
>=20
> Exactly, a typo (& instead of %), no ? I think Camm read this
> mailing list but writing directly to him would be a good idea.
>=20

I agree. The following line in the diff output below

+  if (x->st.st_dim =3D=3D leng && leng & sizeof(object)

should actually read

+  if (x->st.st_dim =3D=3D leng && leng % sizeof(object)

Regards,
Bill Page.

Note: axiom--main--1 is "Axiom Gold".

$ diff -au ~/repository/axiom--main--1/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/cmpaux.c \
  ~/axiom.silver/build-improvements/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/cmpaux.c
--- /home/page/repository/axiom--main--1/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/cmpaux.c
2005-12-01 16:18:23.000000000 -0600
+++ =
/home/page/axiom.silver/build-improvements/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/cmpaux.c
2006-08-25 14:08:41.000000000 -0500
@@ -34,6 +34,8 @@
 #include "include.h"
 #define dcheck_type(a,b) check_type(a,b)

+#include "page.h"
+
 DEFUNO_NEW("SPECIALP",object,fSspecialp,SI
        ,1,1,NONE,OO,OO,OO,OO,void,siLspecialp,(object sym),"")
 {
@@ -205,6 +207,31 @@
        return(i);
 }

+fixnum
+object_to_fixnum(object x)
+{
+       fixnum i=3D0;
+
+       switch (type_of(x)) {
+       case t_character:
+         i =3D char_code(x);  break;
+       case t_fixnum:
+         i =3D fix(x);  break;
+       case t_bignum:
+         i =3D number_to_double(x);
+         break;
+       case t_ratio:
+         i =3D number_to_double(x);  break;
+       case t_shortfloat:
+         i =3D sf(x);  break;
+       case t_longfloat:
+         i =3D lf(x);  break;
+       default:
+         FEerror("~S cannot be coerce to a C int.", 1, x);
+       }
+       return(i);
+}
+
 float
 object_to_float(object x)
 {
@@ -256,26 +283,31 @@
    have a null character in the fillpointer position. */

 char *
-object_to_string(object x)
-{ unsigned int leng;
+object_to_string(object x) {
+
+  unsigned int leng;
+  long np;
+  char *res;
+
   if (type_of(x)!=3Dt_string) FEwrong_type_argument(sLstring,x);
   leng=3D x->st.st_fillp;
   /* user has thoughtfully provided a null terminated string ! */
-    if (leng > 0 && leng < x->st.st_dim && x->st.st_self[leng]=3D=3D0)
+  if (leng > 0 && leng < x->st.st_dim && x->st.st_self[leng]=3D=3D0)
     return x->st.st_self;
-  if (x->st.st_dim =3D=3D leng
-      && ( leng % sizeof(object))
-     )
-    { x->st.st_self[leng] =3D 0;
-      return x->st.st_self;
-    }
-  else
-    {char *res=3Dmalloc(leng+1);
-     bcopy(x->st.st_self,res,leng);
-     res[leng]=3D0;
-     return res;
-   }}

+  np=3Dpage(x->st.st_self);
+  if (x->st.st_dim =3D=3D leng && leng & sizeof(object)
+      && np<MAXPAGE && (type_map[np]=3D=3Dt_relocatable ||
type_map[np]=3D=3Dt_contiguous)) {
+    x->st.st_self[leng] =3D 0;
+    return x->st.st_self;
+  }
+
+  res=3Dmalloc(leng+1);
+  bcopy(x->st.st_self,res,leng);
+  res[leng]=3D0;
+  return res;
+
+}

 /*  typedef int (*FUNC)(); */

[page@axiom-developer o]$





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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] depsys
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Tim,

On October 14, 2006 11:44 AM you wrote:
> > > | | ... 
> > > | | However, depsys will start search from $AXIOM/.. --
> > > | | which is less expected.
> > > ...
> > 
> > I think that the dependency on the $AXIOM environment variable
> > should be removed and the expected behaviour restored. This
> > variable is an unnecesary complication and source of error.
> 
> Come on, Bill. You know how this works. Post a patch.
> Advocacy is volunteering.
> 

:-) I am glad you think this change is a good idea.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > > | | Tim --
| > > | | 
| > > | | I have a question about a difference in "load" behaviour
| > > | | bewteen a clean lisp image (GCL), and depsys (and any image
| > > | | derived  from it).
| > > | | 
| > > | | In a clean image, when I say '(load "foo")', Lisp will 
| > > | | try to search from the current directory -- just what is
| > > | | expected.
| > > | | 
| > > | | However, depsys will start search from $AXIOM/.. -- which 
| > > | | is less expected.
| > > ...
| > 
| > I think that the dependency on the $AXIOM environment variable
| > should be removed and the expected behaviour restored. This
| > variable is an unnecesary complication and source of error.
| 
| Come on, Bill. You know how this works. Post a patch.

Tim, I'm very willing to do the work because that crosses what I'm
doing -- so I don't find it an extra work.

I have been asking for help on the semantics, but so far my quest only
meets silence.  I believe you understand that part of the system,
so it would be very helpful if you could share what you know what it.

-- Gaby



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To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Broken hypertex
References: <E1GYljO-0002wM-00@hera.math.uni.wroc.pl>
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| > Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 ? 03:09 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
| > > Investigating further I have noticed that gcl-2.6.8pre2 in silver is=
=20
| > > different then gcl-2.6.8pre in build improvements.  In particular
| > > the function object_to_string in gcl-2.6.8pre2/o/cmpaux.c is like
| > > gcl-2.6.7 while the version in gcl-2.6.8pre is different.
| >=20
| > Exactly, a typo (& instead of %), no ? I think Camm read this mailing
| > list but writing directly to him would be a good idea.
| >=20
|=20
| To summarize: both gcl-2.6.7 and gcl-2.6.8pre2 pass address of actual
| data (which is what Axiom expects), gcl-2.6.8pre in build-improvements
| copies strings and passes address of the copy (which breaks hypertex
| interface).  When I change object_to_string in gcl-2.6.8pre to match
| that of gcl-2.6.7 (or gcl-2.6.8pre2) hypertex works.
|=20
| Since gcl-2.6.8pre2 seem to be latest gcl version Camm can probably
| just do nothing (just remember so that problem is not re-introduced
| later).

That is interesting.=20=20
gcl-2.6.8pre in build-improvements was updated on September 17, 2006
to reflect what was in GCL cvs tree at the time.

I don't know when gcl-2.6.8pre2 was made.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Broken hypertex
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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

| On October 13, 2006 8:55 PM Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > 
| > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > 
| > | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > | > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > | > 
| > | > | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > | > | > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > | > | > 
| > | > | > | Playing with build-improvements I have noticed that 
| > | > | > | hypertex is broken:
| > | > | > 
| > | > | > Is that reproducible with silver?
| > | > | > 
| > | > | 
| > | > | Probably no: when I tried build-improvements with 
| > | > | gcl-2.6.7 the problem went away.
| > | > 
| > | > Interesting.
| > | > 
| > | > We have a case to investigate.  I seem to remember, but 
| > | > I'm not sure, that the socket interface may have changed
| > | > from 2.6.7 to 2.6.8pre. Bill?
| 
| The change in the socket interface is due only to the better
| treatment of data types in 2.6.8pre and should not be the
| source of any functional changes.

That is good to know; thanks!

[...]

| > It is important that as we work on "fixing" things, we do
| > clearly understand what we are fixing.
| > 
| 
| I agree. I think this thread could benefit by a more explicit
| reference to the source code. See below.

[...]

| > 
| > Exactly, a typo (& instead of %), no ? I think Camm read this
| > mailing list but writing directly to him would be a good idea.
| > 
| 
| I agree. The following line in the diff output below
| 
| +  if (x->st.st_dim == leng && leng & sizeof(object)
| 
| should actually read
| 
| +  if (x->st.st_dim == leng && leng % sizeof(object)

I just updated my version of gcl-2.6.8pre and saw that the typo is
still there.  I'll check in a fix later, unless Camm beats me at it.

-- Gaby



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> I have been asking for help on the semantics, but so far my quest only
> meets silence.  I believe you understand that part of the system,
> so it would be very helpful if you could share what you know what it.

you believe that i know the answers, which i don't.
i know i wrote the code but that was many, many years ago.
in order to answer your questions (e.g. the load question)
i have to read the code and figure out what it does.
since i've had a high priority item for work that took
up last weekend and company for the last two weeks i've
been unable to devote much time to anything, including axiom.
and i have 3 major merges pending, begging for work.

so i'm not ignoring you exclusively, i'm just ignoring everyone
equally. i'd answer if i knew and i'd investigate if i can find
the time, which i can't. midnight last night was the first sign
of "daylight" in my schedule :-)

t





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> I don't know when gcl-2.6.8pre2 was made.

from CHANGELOG in Gold:

20060821 tpd lsp/Makefile add gcl-2.6.8pre2



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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: Conference
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2006 12:56:39 -0400
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On October 13, 2006 6:34 PM Gaby wrote:
> 
> Bill Page writes:
> 
> | 
> | On October 12, 2006 11:57 AM Alfredo wrote
> | > 
> | > Hi Bill,
> | > 
> | > Wondering if you are back from Sage Days, and how did it go?
> | 
> | Yes, I am back. I would say that it went "well". And I have a
> | lot more to write about it when I have more time and energy -
> | maybe tomorrow.
> | 
> | In short: The Sage developers are certainly an enthusiastic,
> | energetic and ambitious group. I think Sage development
> | benefits greatly by being based in a university post-graduate
> | environment and with a lead developer who seems very much
> | "in-tune" with current open source development practices.
> | I wish Axiom had an active sponsor of this kind...
> 
> Hey, you should be more kind to Tim and others :-)
>

Yes, you are probably right - I should be more kind. I do really
appreciate all of the work that Tim, yourself and several other
people have put into Axiom over the last few years - even when
I don't entirely agree with particular design choices! :-)

My comment above was partly motivated by my "feeling old"
following a meeting with a mostly younger and naturally more
enthusiastic group. The contrast with the Axiom project is
striking. I guess there is just something not very sexy about
working on a software project that is older than the average
age of the developers. For example if you did a poll among
the Sage developers about the merits of Lisp versus Python you
can be quite sure where their sympathies would lie. Lisp is
legacy code. Period. Comparing Aldor (or SPAD) to Python might
be an interesting exercise but certainly not a mainstream. :-(

> [...]
> 
> | For example, there was a lot of discussion at the meeting
> | about implementing Padic integers as a computational domain
> | in Sage. I don't know anything about Padic integers but during
> | a quick presentation of the new Axiom interface that I wrote
> | during the coding sprints I demonstrated that Axiom actually
> | already implements at least one of the methods of representing
> | Padics that was being discussed. Of course, as Axiom developers
> | we already know that the Axiom algebra library covers large
> | (and sadly, mostly undocumented) area of computational
> | mathematics.
> 
> is that what padic.spad and spadiclib.spad touch?
> 

Yes. Axiom apparently implements an approach to padics which in
the parlance of the Sage meeting would be called "lazy padics".
As I understand it, the issue with padics is rather similar to
the issue of exact real arithmetic and the relationship to
continued fractions. Since Axiom's library language supports a
"functional" programming paradigm, it is possible to implement
such potentially infinite algebraic objects as Streams. This
is used as a representation for several different domains of
this kind in Axiom.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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> > Come on, Bill. You know how this works. Post a patch.
> > Advocacy is volunteering.
> > 
> 
> :-) I am glad you think this change is a good idea.

Running code is always a strong endorsement for a position.
Making this work in Gold would be hard. Gaby might have a
way to solve this.

The AXIOM variable has two primary uses. First it tells the
build system what kind of target to expect. Second, it tells
the installed system where to find itself. These assumptions
are sprinkled thru the code and never documented. So removing
this variable is a minor challenge. At the moment it has the
feature that "it works" and there are many other things that
are broken or need changing. So my real opinion is that I
don't see the advantage of working on changing something that
works. I'd rather see changes on things that don't work right
(e.g. databases), don't work at all (e.g. regression testing),
don't have a clue about how it should work (e.g. drag-and-drop),
fundamentally change the system (e.g. video documentation), or
fundamentally change the field (e.g. CATS).

But if you and/or Gaby feel it should be changed, are willing to
change it and document it, then yes, it's a good idea :-)

t



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> > You need to clean up the files in that repository directory, so that
> > the directory can happily exist on win32.    Either have a unix person
> > delete redundant files (are POLY.pht and poly.pht identical?), or
> > rename them.
> 
> Tim, can this be done without breaking something on Axiom? The two
> files appear to be different.

i'll look into this.

the name restriction is tighter than this, actually.
in order to make a vaild CD verison of any system 
the naming conventions require things such as 
one '.' per name, all lower case, less than a small
number of characters, etc. we should probably 
conform to those restrictions.

t



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> | > 
> | > Exactly, a typo (& instead of %), no ? I think Camm read this
> | > mailing list but writing directly to him would be a good idea.
> | > 
> | 
> | I agree. The following line in the diff output below
> | 
> | +  if (x->st.st_dim == leng && leng & sizeof(object)
> | 
> | should actually read
> | 
> | +  if (x->st.st_dim == leng && leng % sizeof(object)
> 
> I just updated my version of gcl-2.6.8pre and saw that the typo is
> still there.  I'll check in a fix later, unless Camm beats me at it.

I checked Gold's version of gcl-2.6.7, gcl-2.6.8pre, and gcl-2.6.8pre2
and this line is the same in all three versions.

I'm not sure what version of gcl-2.6.8pre you're using.

t



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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

[...]

| My comment above was partly motivated by my "feeling old"
| following a meeting with a mostly younger and naturally more
| enthusiastic group. The contrast with the Axiom project is
| striking. I guess there is just something not very sexy about
| working on a software project that is older than the average
| age of the developers. For example if you did a poll among
| the Sage developers about the merits of Lisp versus Python you
| can be quite sure where their sympathies would lie. Lisp is
| legacy code. Period.

yes.  But not everyone agrees. 

On the other hand, I consider C++ "old" -- it started as "C with
Classes" around 1979, with first release in 1989.  Still, today, it
draws lots of enthusiasm.  I suspect, it is not just being old.

I very much enjoy working through Axiom codes (even when I scream!),
thinking that epople like Jenks invented it.

But, some of the issues I have with the project has less to do with
its age than some "management" choices that I believe don't push Axiom
to more exposure.  We've already debated those, so I'm not going to
elaborate here.  I just hope that as we work toward making the system
more accessible, we would attract more (younger) people to revitalize
the projects. 

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| But if you and/or Gaby feel it should be changed, are willing to
| change it and document it, then yes, it's a good idea :-)

Changing reliance on AXIOM is not a priority for me, but changing the
beahviour I'm fighting right now (see my original mail) IS a priority.
I don't consider it working.

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > I have been asking for help on the semantics, but so far my quest only
| > meets silence.  I believe you understand that part of the system,
| > so it would be very helpful if you could share what you know what it.
| 
| you believe that i know the answers, which i don't.
| i know i wrote the code but that was many, many years ago.
| in order to answer your questions (e.g. the load question)
| i have to read the code and figure out what it does.
| since i've had a high priority item for work that took
| up last weekend and company for the last two weeks i've
| been unable to devote much time to anything, including axiom.
| and i have 3 major merges pending, begging for work.

OK, that is good "excuse" :-)

| so i'm not ignoring you exclusively, i'm just ignoring everyone
| equally. i'd answer if i knew and i'd investigate if i can find
| the time, which i can't. midnight last night was the first sign
| of "daylight" in my schedule :-)

:-)

OK, I'll try to see whether I gain much insight on a flight.  I'm
heading to Portland for a week (C++ standards committee meeting).  I
don't expect to have much time to work on anything other than C++
during that timeframe.

Thanks!

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > I don't know when gcl-2.6.8pre2 was made.
| 
| from CHANGELOG in Gold:
| 
| 20060821 tpd lsp/Makefile add gcl-2.6.8pre2

Aha; so the faulty change in gcl-2.6.8pre is much more recent.
Thanks!

-- Gaby



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> But, some of the issues I have with the project has less to do with
> its age than some "management" choices that I believe don't push Axiom
> to more exposure.

umm, you're a project "manager". check the sourceforge permissions.
anything you feel needs to be done "for more exposure" is yours to do.

t




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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

>> > You need to clean up the files in that repository directory, so that
>> > the directory can happily exist on win32.    Either have a unix person
>> > delete redundant files (are POLY.pht and poly.pht identical?), or
>> > rename them.
>> 
>> Tim, can this be done without breaking something on Axiom? The two
>> files appear to be different.
>
> i'll look into this.
>
> the name restriction is tighter than this, actually.
> in order to make a vaild CD verison of any system 
> the naming conventions require things such as 
> one '.' per name, all lower case, less than a small
> number of characters, etc. we should probably 
> conform to those restrictions.
I'm fairly sure that the restrictions aren't that tight anymore, at
least for CDs/DVDs. Most operating systems support either the Joliet
or the RockRidge scheme. See

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joliet_(file_system) 

and

http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rockridge

for details.

Kai



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Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

| "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:
| 
| [...]
| 
| | My comment above was partly motivated by my "feeling old"
| | following a meeting with a mostly younger and naturally more
| | enthusiastic group. The contrast with the Axiom project is
| | striking. I guess there is just something not very sexy about
| | working on a software project that is older than the average
| | age of the developers. For example if you did a poll among
| | the Sage developers about the merits of Lisp versus Python you
| | can be quite sure where their sympathies would lie. Lisp is
| | legacy code. Period.
| 
| yes.  But not everyone agrees. 
| 
| On the other hand, I consider C++ "old" -- it started as "C with
| Classes" around 1979, with first release in 1989.
                                              ^^^^

oops, first relase is 1984.

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > | > 
| > | > Exactly, a typo (& instead of %), no ? I think Camm read this
| > | > mailing list but writing directly to him would be a good idea.
| > | > 
| > | 
| > | I agree. The following line in the diff output below
| > | 
| > | +  if (x->st.st_dim == leng && leng & sizeof(object)
| > | 
| > | should actually read
| > | 
| > | +  if (x->st.st_dim == leng && leng % sizeof(object)
| > 
| > I just updated my version of gcl-2.6.8pre and saw that the typo is
| > still there.  I'll check in a fix later, unless Camm beats me at it.
| 
| I checked Gold's version of gcl-2.6.7, gcl-2.6.8pre, and gcl-2.6.8pre2
| and this line is the same in all three versions.
| 
| I'm not sure what version of gcl-2.6.8pre you're using.

GCL CVS. (Camm kindly welcomed me on te GCL project.)
So I have (separate)  copies, up-to-date, of gcl-2.6.8pre, gcl-2.7
(trunk).

-- Gaby



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On October 14, 2006 2:22 PM Gaby wrote:

> ... 
> On the other hand, I consider C++ "old" -- it started as "C
> with Classes" around 1979, with first release in 1989.  Still,
> today, it draws lots of enthusiasm.  I suspect, it [lack of
> enthusiasm for Lisp and Aldor] is not just being old.
>

Good point. Similarly I am sure that many people would argue that
their enthusiasm for Python is also not just because it is new.
I recently read the book: "Python Scripting for Computational
Science, 2nd edition" by Hans Petter Langtangen, Springer, 2006.
See: http://folk.uio.no/hpl/scripting Contrary to some of the
opinions expressed by Tim about Python and it's relationship to
Lisp, I think we *must* also consider Python when we talk about
the possible future of Axiom.

> I very much enjoy working through Axiom codes (even when I
> scream!), thinking that people like Jenks invented it.
>

Tim Daly has referred to this as "software archeology" and I think
that is an apt description. Depending on one's point of view this
might seem either "fun" or very "frustrating". Cetainly it is one
of the current goals of the Axiom project to recover and document
as much of the huge intellectual investment in Axiom as possible.
So I guess this makes us especially sensitive to the notion of
trying not to "re-invent the wheel".

> But, some of the issues I have with the project has less to do
> with its age than some "management" choices that I believe don't
> push Axiom to more exposure.  We've already debated those, so I'm
> not going to elaborate here.  I just hope that as we work toward
> making the system more accessible, we would attract more (younger)
> people to revitalize the projects. 
> 

Hear, hear!

Regards,
Bill Page.





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This is an old Next demo by Steve Jobs.
http://jaortega.wordpress.com/2006/10/13/the-object-oriented-cake

Imagine a computational mathematics environment running on Doyen
that could do the same kind of things with math.

t



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Broken hypertex
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Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 =E0 17:47 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
> > Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 ? 03:09 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
> > > Investigating further I have noticed that gcl-2.6.8pre2 in silver i=
s=20
> > > different then gcl-2.6.8pre in build improvements.  In particular
> > > the function object_to_string in gcl-2.6.8pre2/o/cmpaux.c is like
> > > gcl-2.6.7 while the version in gcl-2.6.8pre is different.
> >=20
> > Exactly, a typo (& instead of %), no ? I think Camm read this mailing
> > list but writing directly to him would be a good idea.
> >=20
>=20
> To summarize: both gcl-2.6.7 and gcl-2.6.8pre2 pass address of actual
> data (which is what Axiom expects), gcl-2.6.8pre in build-improvements
> copies strings and passes address of the copy (which breaks hypertex
> interface).  When I change object_to_string in gcl-2.6.8pre to match
> that of gcl-2.6.7 (or gcl-2.6.8pre2) hypertex works.
>=20
> Since gcl-2.6.8pre2 seem to be latest gcl version Camm can probably
> just do nothing (just remember so that problem is not re-introduced
> later).

No, GCL included in build-improvements is more recent than
gcl-2.6.8pre2. The code that you describe is in gcl-2.6.8pre just
checked out today and in gcl-2.7 (cvs HEAD).

Greg




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Vanuxem Gr=E9gory wrote:
> Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 ? 17:47 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
> > Since gcl-2.6.8pre2 seem to be latest gcl version Camm can probably
> > just do nothing (just remember so that problem is not re-introduced
> > later).
>=20
> No, GCL included in build-improvements is more recent than
> gcl-2.6.8pre2. The code that you describe is in gcl-2.6.8pre just
> checked out today and in gcl-2.7 (cvs HEAD).
>=20

Yes, the names fooled me.

--=20
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl=20



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> > > Since gcl-2.6.8pre2 seem to be latest gcl version Camm can probably
> > > just do nothing (just remember so that problem is not re-introduced
> > > later).
> > 
> > No, GCL included in build-improvements is more recent than
> > gcl-2.6.8pre2. The code that you describe is in gcl-2.6.8pre just
> > checked out today and in gcl-2.7 (cvs HEAD).
> > 
> 
> Yes, the names fooled me.

The problem is that Axiom is running fairly close to the CVS HEAD
version of GCL but there is no way to distinguish exactly which
checkout will work on which platform and contains which errors.

This problem is highlighted on the Fedora 5 build which will not
run on gcl-2.6.8pre2 and requires a prior version. Since I was
unable to distinguish the two checkouts automatically there are
two snapshots in the zips directory.

t



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: Sourceforge-Google
From: Vanuxem =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Gr=E9gory?= <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr>
To: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 =E0 01:41 +0200, Gabriel Dos Reis a =E9crit :
> Vanuxem Gr=E9gory <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr> writes:
>=20
> [...]
>=20
> | This (the X11 issue) is exactly what is needed to "merge" Axiom for
> | Windows and the main branch (i.e. drop the Windows branch). Some othe=
r
> | _small_ changes will eventually be needed.
>=20
> I'm not aware of those "small" changes; please could you tell me more
> about those?

When saying that yesterday I forgot some issues with sockets, I don't
know if "GCL on Windows" support these. Another thing is the use of pty
(in src/lib, src/sman etc), there is no pty in Windows. In fact on
Windows we use AXIOMsys and not the axiom script. So the more I think
about this the more I think the changes will not be as small as I though
(it's not insurmountable though). In fact my point of view is/was
biased, I too often use directly AXIOMsys.

Another known problem is spaces in paths, for example path to latex.
Bill have recently modified the latex definition in a file, maybe the
document script, it is now 'latex' instead of the full path which is C:
\Program Files\Somewhere for him. For the other small changes, I don't
know, we will see later when we will test and use. But Bill is the right
person to speak about this, it maintains the "Axiom for Windows" branch
and better know than me Windows specific issues (it worked with Mike
Thomas, the "GCL for Windows" guru ).

Greg




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Currently rules are appended to more-rules.mk. When make is re-run
all more-rules.mk gets duplicated. I think that we should just
replace content of more-rules.mk:

--- src/Makefile.pamphlet	(wersja 181)
+++ src/Makefile.pamphlet	(kopia robocza)
@@ -221,7 +221,7 @@
                   > $(INT)/algebra/findAlgebraFiles && \
 	echo 30b running ${INT}/algebra/findAlgebraFiles && \
 	(cd $(srcdir)/algebra && . $(INT)/algebra/findAlgebraFiles) \
-          >> $(builddir)/algebra/more-rules.mk
+          > $(builddir)/algebra/more-rules.mk
 	cd algebra && ${ENV} ${MAKE}
 

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Greetings, and thanks for the report!  Typeo should be gone now in
both branches.

Just wanted to note that the only way you can guarantee that you don't
get a copy out of object_to_string is to write a null character at the
end of the lisp string body yourself, as there is extra room only in
special circumstances.

Take care,

Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

> > Le samedi 14 octobre 2006 ? 03:09 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
> > > Investigating further I have noticed that gcl-2.6.8pre2 in silver is=
=20
> > > different then gcl-2.6.8pre in build improvements.  In particular
> > > the function object_to_string in gcl-2.6.8pre2/o/cmpaux.c is like
> > > gcl-2.6.7 while the version in gcl-2.6.8pre is different.
> >=20
> > Exactly, a typo (& instead of %), no ? I think Camm read this mailing
> > list but writing directly to him would be a good idea.
> >=20
>=20
> To summarize: both gcl-2.6.7 and gcl-2.6.8pre2 pass address of actual
> data (which is what Axiom expects), gcl-2.6.8pre in build-improvements
> copies strings and passes address of the copy (which breaks hypertex
> interface).  When I change object_to_string in gcl-2.6.8pre to match
> that of gcl-2.6.7 (or gcl-2.6.8pre2) hypertex works.
>=20
> Since gcl-2.6.8pre2 seem to be latest gcl version Camm can probably
> just do nothing (just remember so that problem is not re-introduced
> later).
>=20
> Concerning build-improvements: I can use gcl-2.6.7 when testing hypertex.
>=20
> --=20
>                               Waldek Hebisch
> hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl=20
>=20
>=20
>=20

--=20
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
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"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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I've been researching a mechanism for parallel execution
for algorithms like matrix multiply or group algorithms.

Google has published their "MapReduce" algorithm here:
http://labs.google.com/papers/mapreduce-osdi04.pdf

It seems that we could implement the automatic primitives
used by google with similar semantics to achieve parallel
execution on multi-core machines. Since multi-core machines
are reliable and share memory and a file system this could
be quite efficient and natural.

We could also scale the algorithm by using a network
protocol and work between multiple Axiom/Magnus hosted
machines. This would make effective use of a cluster.

Comments?

Tim





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Oh, and I forgot to mention another significant advantage.

The "master" task knows about the "worker" machine abilities.
Thus it would be possible to use Magnus routines in Axiom
or Axiom routines in Magnus without combining the code.
Axiom could MapReduce a group operation, the master could
split it among Magnus machines (and even request different
Magnus procedures since they are not guaranteed to terminate),
"map" collect the successful results, poison the remaining Magnus 
processes, "reduce" combine the answer, and return.

> I've been researching a mechanism for parallel execution
> for algorithms like matrix multiply or group algorithms.
> 
> Google has published their "MapReduce" algorithm here:
> http://labs.google.com/papers/mapreduce-osdi04.pdf
> 
> It seems that we could implement the automatic primitives
> used by google with similar semantics to achieve parallel
> execution on multi-core machines. Since multi-core machines
> are reliable and share memory and a file system this could
> be quite efficient and natural.
> 
> We could also scale the algorithm by using a network
> protocol and work between multiple Axiom/Magnus hosted
> machines. This would make effective use of a cluster.
> 

Comments?

Tim





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Yet another parallel use would be creating direction field
images for differential equations. Each machine could be
given a particular isocline to compute over a given domain
and the final combined results into solution curves.

> Oh, and I forgot to mention another significant advantage.
> 
> The "master" task knows about the "worker" machine abilities.
> Thus it would be possible to use Magnus routines in Axiom
> or Axiom routines in Magnus without combining the code.
> Axiom could MapReduce a group operation, the master could
> split it among Magnus machines (and even request different
> Magnus procedures since they are not guaranteed to terminate),
> "map" collect the successful results, poison the remaining Magnus 
> processes, "reduce" combine the answer, and return.
> 
> > I've been researching a mechanism for parallel execution
> > for algorithms like matrix multiply or group algorithms.
> > 
> > Google has published their "MapReduce" algorithm here:
> > http://labs.google.com/papers/mapreduce-osdi04.pdf
> > 
> > It seems that we could implement the automatic primitives
> > used by google with similar semantics to achieve parallel
> > execution on multi-core machines. Since multi-core machines
> > are reliable and share memory and a file system this could
> > be quite efficient and natural.
> > 
> > We could also scale the algorithm by using a network
> > protocol and work between multiple Axiom/Magnus hosted
> > machines. This would make effective use of a cluster.
> > 
> 
Comments?

Tim





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root wrote:
> Yet another parallel use would be creating direction field
> images for differential equations. Each machine could be
> given a particular isocline to compute over a given domain
> and the final combined results into solution curves.
> 
>> Oh, and I forgot to mention another significant advantage.
>>
>> The "master" task knows about the "worker" machine abilities.
>> Thus it would be possible to use Magnus routines in Axiom
>> or Axiom routines in Magnus without combining the code.
>> Axiom could MapReduce a group operation, the master could
>> split it among Magnus machines (and even request different
>> Magnus procedures since they are not guaranteed to terminate),
>> "map" collect the successful results, poison the remaining Magnus 
>> processes, "reduce" combine the answer, and return.

I know what Axiom is, I know what MapReduce is, but what is Magnus? This
is a name I've not heard before.




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> I know what Axiom is, I know what MapReduce is, but what is Magnus? This
> is a name I've not heard before.

Magnus is a package for Infinite Group Theory calculations
invented by Gilbert Baumslag. Infinite Group Theory has the
annoying property that nearly every question you ask cannot
be decided. Thus one writes procedures which may or may not
terminate (as opposed to algorithms). Magnus runs parallel
tasks with different procedures, accepts the first one to 
terminate, and poisons the other computations. See
http://sourceforge.net/projects/magnus

Parallel algorithms could be run on multi-core or clusters.

These infinite group objects can be written down with
typically small, finite "presentations". For example,

  < a , b , c ; a^2 = cb >

One question of interest is how to extend Axiom to use Magnus or
Magnus to use Axiom. If Axiom created the above presentation and
asked the master a question about it (e.g. is the group abelian?)
you could pass the request off to many Magnus machines and grind
on the answer.

A similar technique might be employed with Sage to ask specific
questions of specialized worker systems.

Tim



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Current "Standard boilerplate dependencies" give spurious failure. 
This is caused by the last test commad in $(RECURSIVE_TARGETS).
The following fixed problem for me:


--- config/setup-dep.mk	(wersja 182)
+++ config/setup-dep.mk	(kopia robocza)
@@ -35,7 +35,7 @@
 	done; \
 	if test "$$dot_seen" = "no"; then \
 	   $(ENV) $(MAKE) "$$target-ax" || exit 1; \
-	fi; test -z "$$failcmd"
+	fi
 
 ## Rules to make DVI files from pamphlets
 

BTW: Handling of -k option in $(RECURSIVE_TARGETS) looks strange (why
wildcards in the pattern, when we want exact match?).

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Is anyone working on Axiom for OS X?

-----Original Message-----
From: William Stein [mailto:wstein@gmail.com] 
Sent: October 15, 2006 12:45 PM
To: bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca
Subject: Axiom for OS X


Bill,

I'm curious -- what is the status of Axiom for OS X?

It is somewhat of a headache for me having
a SAGE component that I can't test on my main OS X development machine,
and I'm unfomfortable with having optional components that many of my
users can't possibly install.

William






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On October 14, 2006 6:19 PM William Stein wrote:
> On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 15:01:29 -0700, Bill Page  wrote:
> > Great. Are you having any problems with the pexpect sychronization
> > on you laptop? I am still not entirely satisfied that the process
> > I use for disabling readline is reliable since it is done by a
> > command that is sent while readline itself is still in place. On
> > my laptop where Axiom was built without readline, everything
> > seems ok to me but on the axiom-developer server I am having
> > some problems. Since Axiom is built on Lisp it is easy to disable
> > readline and then save a new copy of the Axiom binary which
> > starts with readline disabled. Maybe this would be a good thing
> > to do while installing Sage with Axiom?
> 
> I don't know.  We *do* want readline (or equiv) support when you
> use Axiom from the command line.  I wouldn't want to ship an
> axiom with SAGE that doesn't have readline support.
>

Axiom has it's own built-in equivalent of readline called 'clef'.
Clef also provides Axiom-specific command completions. Clef is
functional whether or not readline is available in AXIOMsys. The
only reason why readline is an issue is because in recent releases
of GCL readline is compiled in by default and AXIOMsys is derived
from GCL. Whether clef is enabled or not can be controlled from
the axiom command line, i.e.

  $ axiom -noclef

When run internally in Sage, the option -noclef would be used.
When run in console mode, clef would be enabled by default.
 
> >> Are you OK with the following for the copyright statement on
> >> axiom.py?
> ... 
> I'll make the copyright be just me, but I'll make it abundantly
> clear how much work you put into the interface, etc.   E.g.,
> 
> AUTHORS OF THIS MODULE:
>      -- Bill Page (2006-10): Created this (based on maxima interface)
>         NOTE: Bill Page put a huge amount of effort into the SAGE
          Axiom interface over several days during the SAGE Days 2
          coding sprint.  This contribution is greatly appreciated.
>      -- William Stein (2006-10): misc touchup.
> 

That's fine.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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> Is anyone working on Axiom for OS X?
> 
> Bill,
> 
> I'm curious -- what is the status of Axiom for OS X?
> 
> It is somewhat of a headache for me having
> a SAGE component that I can't test on my main OS X development machine,
> and I'm unfomfortable with having optional components that many of my
> users can't possibly install.
> 
> William

Yes, I'm working on Axiom for OSX. I recently moved from using Fink
to using XCode and am making more progress.

Tim



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Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com> writes:

| Greetings, and thanks for the report!  Typeo should be gone now in
| both branches.

Great!  I'll update build-improvements later, assuming I still have
connectivity. 

-- Gaby



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Currently rules are appended to more-rules.mk. When make is re-run
| all more-rules.mk gets duplicated. I think that we should just
| replace content of more-rules.mk:

The whole thing should be revisited.  That is on my TODO list.
the more-rules.mk was a quick hack to stop generating Makefiles at
build-time. 

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| I've been researching a mechanism for parallel execution
| for algorithms like matrix multiply or group algorithms.
| 
| Google has published their "MapReduce" algorithm here:
| http://labs.google.com/papers/mapreduce-osdi04.pdf

Yes, I gave this to students last year and it was really instructive
to them.  Last summer, some of the mini-projects I gave at the
CEA-EDF-INRIA summer school was also based on that.  Engineers appreciated.

| It seems that we could implement the automatic primitives
| used by google with similar semantics to achieve parallel
| execution on multi-core machines. Since multi-core machines
| are reliable and share memory and a file system this could
| be quite efficient and natural.

If you're really interested in that, you should check our the massive
work done by the functional community, e.g. by Roland Backhouse and
collaborators.  Google Jeremy Gibbons, Graham Hutton, "Functional
programming with bananas, ...", Eden, etc.

-- Gaby



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Current "Standard boilerplate dependencies" give spurious failure. 
| This is caused by the last test commad in $(RECURSIVE_TARGETS).
| The following fixed problem for me:
| 
| 
| --- config/setup-dep.mk	(wersja 182)
| +++ config/setup-dep.mk	(kopia robocza)
| @@ -35,7 +35,7 @@
|  	done; \
|  	if test "$$dot_seen" = "no"; then \
|  	   $(ENV) $(MAKE) "$$target-ax" || exit 1; \
| -	fi; test -z "$$failcmd"
| +	fi

Why do you think that is bogus?
(That is what Automake generates for me.)

-- Gaby



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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

| Is anyone working on Axiom for OS X?

Not right now, but I need to get to it, because 66% of my students
runs on MACs.

-- Gaby



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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

| On October 14, 2006 6:19 PM William Stein wrote:
| > On Sat, 14 Oct 2006 15:01:29 -0700, Bill Page  wrote:
| > > Great. Are you having any problems with the pexpect sychronization
| > > on you laptop? I am still not entirely satisfied that the process
| > > I use for disabling readline is reliable since it is done by a
| > > command that is sent while readline itself is still in place. On
| > > my laptop where Axiom was built without readline, everything
| > > seems ok to me but on the axiom-developer server I am having
| > > some problems. Since Axiom is built on Lisp it is easy to disable
| > > readline and then save a new copy of the Axiom binary which
| > > starts with readline disabled. Maybe this would be a good thing
| > > to do while installing Sage with Axiom?
| > 
| > I don't know.  We *do* want readline (or equiv) support when you
| > use Axiom from the command line.  I wouldn't want to ship an
| > axiom with SAGE that doesn't have readline support.
| >
| 
| Axiom has it's own built-in equivalent of readline called 'clef'.
| Clef also provides Axiom-specific command completions. Clef is
| functional whether or not readline is available in AXIOMsys. The
| only reason why readline is an issue is because in recent releases
| of GCL readline is compiled in by default and AXIOMsys is derived
| from GCL. Whether clef is enabled or not can be controlled from
| the axiom command line, i.e.

clef has the annoying property that whe suspended, and subsequently
resumed, ^P would *display* very strangely. :-(

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > I have been asking for help on the semantics, but so far my quest only
| > meets silence.  I believe you understand that part of the system,
| > so it would be very helpful if you could share what you know what it.
| 
| you believe that i know the answers, which i don't.

I think I've found the cause of the problem.  It is the setting of

        *default-pathname-defaults*

commenting out the setting of that variable restores expected
behaviour.

Nowhere, I can find a reasonable documentation which says why that
variable should be set.  I believe it is wrong.  I'll check-in a patch
later. 

-- Gaby




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> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | Current "Standard boilerplate dependencies" give spurious failure. 
> | This is caused by the last test commad in $(RECURSIVE_TARGETS).
> | The following fixed problem for me:
> | 
> | 
> | --- config/setup-dep.mk	(wersja 182)
> | +++ config/setup-dep.mk	(kopia robocza)
> | @@ -35,7 +35,7 @@
> |  	done; \
> |  	if test "$$dot_seen" = "no"; then \
> |  	   $(ENV) $(MAKE) "$$target-ax" || exit 1; \
> | -	fi; test -z "$$failcmd"
> | +	fi
> 
> Why do you think that is bogus?
> (That is what Automake generates for me.)
> 
> -- Gaby
> 

man test:
....

       -z STRING
              the length of STRING is zero
.....

At the beginning we have:

        failcmd='exit 1'; 

On normal path (without -k option) there is no assignment to failcmd,
so the test fails and gives exit status 1. 

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > 
| > | Current "Standard boilerplate dependencies" give spurious failure. 
| > | This is caused by the last test commad in $(RECURSIVE_TARGETS).
| > | The following fixed problem for me:
| > | 
| > | 
| > | --- config/setup-dep.mk	(wersja 182)
| > | +++ config/setup-dep.mk	(kopia robocza)
| > | @@ -35,7 +35,7 @@
| > |  	done; \
| > |  	if test "$$dot_seen" = "no"; then \
| > |  	   $(ENV) $(MAKE) "$$target-ax" || exit 1; \
| > | -	fi; test -z "$$failcmd"
| > | +	fi
| > 
| > Why do you think that is bogus?
| > (That is what Automake generates for me.)
| > 
| > -- Gaby
| > 
| 
| man test:
| ....
| 
|        -z STRING
|               the length of STRING is zero
| .....
| 
| At the beginning we have:
| 
|         failcmd='exit 1'; 
| 
| On normal path (without -k option) there is no assignment to failcmd,
| so the test fails and gives exit status 1. 

The real fix, is to test for $$fail, NOT $$failcmd.  Notice fail is
set when --keep is specified.

-- Gaby



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> Nowhere, I can find a reasonable documentation which says why that
> variable should be set.  I believe it is wrong.  I'll check-in a patch
> later. 

Clearly the lack of rational because of missing documentation is
ssystemic problem.... but you fail to explain why you think the
current behavior is a mistake, compounding the problem.

Why do you "believe it is wrong"?

t



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > Nowhere, I can find a reasonable documentation which says why that
| > variable should be set.  I believe it is wrong.  I'll check-in a patch
| > later. 
| 
| Clearly the lack of rational because of missing documentation is
| ssystemic problem.... but you fail to explain why you think the
| current behavior is a mistake, compounding the problem.
| 
| Why do you "believe it is wrong"?

(1) it leads to wrong behaviour; this is factual.
(1) all the settings of that variable I've audited do not seem to agree on
    on a single value.  Consequently, it is wrong on semantics
    consideration. (Yes, I appreciate the settings are conditional).

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and more-rules.mk
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> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | Currently rules are appended to more-rules.mk. When make is re-run
> | all more-rules.mk gets duplicated. I think that we should just
> | replace content of more-rules.mk:
> 
> The whole thing should be revisited.  That is on my TODO list.
> the more-rules.mk was a quick hack to stop generating Makefiles at
> build-time. 
> 

I agree that algebra bootstrap should be revisited.  But IMHO the main
work to do is outside Makefiles: I think that algebra should build
just from spad files using Spad compiler and almost empty databases.
Such bootstrap will require a few stages and work in very sequential
way.  Once algebra is bootstraped we would like to do minimal
recompilation after changes. However, dependencies between algebra
files are complex and cyclic, so ATM it is impossible to use
make to handle them.  

Concerning bootstrap: one can replace browse.daase and operations.daase
by "empty" databases and bootstrap still works fine. I was able to
build large part of algebra (including most of the files which ATM
are build from Lisp) using only Spad sources, "empty" category.daase
and minimal interp.daase, but I had to set $bootStrapMode flag and build
everthing in a single invocation of the compiler.


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] wrong exit status in build-improvements
In-Reply-To: <m3ac3xcbcc.fsf@zeus.integrable-solutions.net>
To: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> The real fix, is to test for $$fail, NOT $$failcmd.  Notice fail is
> set when --keep is specified.
> 

Yes, like:

--- config/setup-dep.mk	(wersja 182)
+++ config/setup-dep.mk	(kopia robocza)
@@ -35,7 +35,7 @@
 	done; \
 	if test "$$dot_seen" = "no"; then \
 	   $(ENV) $(MAKE) "$$target-ax" || exit 1; \
-	fi; test -z "$$failcmd"
+	fi; test -z "$$fail"
 
 ## Rules to make DVI files from pamphlets
 


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> I agree that algebra bootstrap should be revisited.  But IMHO the
> main work to do is outside Makefiles: I think that algebra should
> build just from spad files using Spad compiler and almost empty 
> databases.

Agree, but that's more than just the main work - it's a massive
undertaking.

One possibility might be to see of the axiom_cmu port (which greatly
simplifies things in general) builds in that form on GCL - that's
something I never tried.  A little preliminary poking suggests some
make file changes would be needed, at a minimum...

CY

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> (1) it leads to wrong behaviour; this is factual.

But Axiom's been like this for years.
What is wrong about the behavior?

> (1) all the settings of that variable I've audited do not seem to agree on
>     on a single value.  Consequently, it is wrong on semantics
>     consideration. (Yes, I appreciate the settings are conditional).

What do you believe is the correct setting? And why?

I'm not saying you are wrong, I just need to understand your reasoning.

t



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and more-rules.mk
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On October 15, 2006 9:38 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> ... 
> Concerning bootstrap: one can replace browse.daase and 
> operations.daase by "empty" databases and bootstrap still works
> fine. I was able to build large part of algebra (including most
> of the files which ATM are build from Lisp) using only Spad
> sources, "empty" category.daase and minimal interp.daase, but
> I had to set $bootStrapMode flag and build everthing in a single
> invocation of the compiler.
> 

Thank you for this comment.

PLEASE, PLEASE take a moment to describe what you are doing more
clearly. I am very very interested.

Where is '$bootStrapMode flag' defined?

What do you mean by "minimal interp.daase"? How do you construct
this minimal database?

Could you send an example script that "builds everthing in a
single invocation of the compiler"?

I think you knowledge of how this works could be very valuable
for improving Axiom.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> > 
> > I agree that algebra bootstrap should be revisited.  But IMHO the
> > main work to do is outside Makefiles: I think that algebra should
> > build just from spad files using Spad compiler and almost empty 
> > databases.
> 
> Agree, but that's more than just the main work - it's a massive
> undertaking.
>

I think it is easier then you think.  At the begining one has no
idea what to do.  But once you start changing things the system
break down and studing breakage teaches you a lot how it works.
And regardles of how much work it takes it must be done: IMO system
which has huge uneditable blobs as "sources" too hard to maintain.
 
> One possibility might be to see of the axiom_cmu port (which greatly
> simplifies things in general) builds in that form on GCL - that's
> something I never tried.  A little preliminary poking suggests some
> make file changes would be needed, at a minimum...
> 

AFAICS axiom_cmu build algebra the same way as GCL version. Main difference
is that axiom_cmu makes some ANSI corrections (but not enough to compile
it using SBCL), and skips boot directory.  Motivated by axiom_cmu I
made a patch to build-improvement branch which skips boot directory:

http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/axiom-developer/2006-10/msg00039.html


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and more-rules.mk
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Bill Page wrote:
> On October 15, 2006 9:38 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> > ... 
> > Concerning bootstrap: one can replace browse.daase and 
> > operations.daase by "empty" databases and bootstrap still works
> > fine. I was able to build large part of algebra (including most
> > of the files which ATM are build from Lisp) using only Spad
> > sources, "empty" category.daase and minimal interp.daase, but
> > I had to set $bootStrapMode flag and build everthing in a single
> > invocation of the compiler.
> > 
> 
> Thank you for this comment.
> 
> PLEASE, PLEASE take a moment to describe what you are doing more
> clearly. I am very very interested.
> 
> Where is '$bootStrapMode flag' defined?
> 
> What do you mean by "minimal interp.daase"? How do you construct
> this minimal database?
> 

------------------<interp.daase>-----------------

(30 . 3469429128)
((|Category| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL T NIL (NIL) NIL NIL NIL) (|Union| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL) (|Record| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL) (|Mapping| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL) (|Enumeration| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL))
-----------------<end interp.daase>-------------

Note that after first nonempty line you have witespace padding, so
that the second nonempty line is more than 30 charaters from the
start of the file. I created it dumping normal interp.daase in
uncompressed form and copying from it the few relevant positions.
How I found out which positions: the compiler knows what Category
or Record is, but there is no Spad sources defining them. AFAICS
all domains must be either (pre)registerd in database or compiled from
source (which as side effect registers them), so they are minimal
possibility for interp.daase (in fact I suspect that may need
some other domains to _corrctly_ compile things).

ATM if you realy want to use such minimal databases you must remove
distributed databases, replace them by minimal ones and then
start build. If you use Axiom that ever saw bigger database this
Axiom image will remember part of large database with pretty
strange consequences (I am finishing a patch which will correct
this problem).

> Could you send an example script that "builds everthing in a
> single invocation of the compiler"?
>

----------------<boostrap.input>--------------
)lisp (setq |$bootStrapMode| t)
)co TYPE.spad
)co KOERCE.spad
)co BASTYPE.spad
)co SETCAT-boot.spad
)co OUTFORM.spad
)system rm -rf SETCAT.NRLIB
)co SETCAT.spad
----------------<end boostrap.input>--------------

invocation:

DAASE=/var/tmp/hebisch/nn2/ax-build2/int/ ../build/i686-pc-linux/bin/interpsys < boostrap.input

(of course you need correct paths). 

BTW. $bootStrapMode compilation is quite fast, it can handle 300 Spad files
in about a minute (but it slows down when you have more files in a single
batch). 

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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This is not a valid database file.
I'll see if I can document the structure of such a file.

t


(30 . 3469429128)
((|Category| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL T NIL (NIL) NIL NIL NIL) (|Union| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL) (|Record| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL) (|Mapping| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL) (|Enumeration| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL))



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This is the documentation of daase.lisp.pamphet
Some of it is new and I'll add it to the file.






1) KAF FILE FORMAT ==============================================

This documentation refers to KAF files which are random access files.
NRLIB files are KAF files (look for NRLIB/index.KAF)
The format of a random access file is

byte-offset-of-key-table
first-entry
second-entry
...
last-entry
((key1 . first-entry-byte-address)
 (key2 . second-entry-byte-address)
 ...
 (keyN . last-entry-byte-address))

The key table is a standard lisp alist.

To open a database you fetch the first number, seek to that location,
and (read) which returns the key-data alist. To look up data you
index into the key-data alist, find the ith-entry-byte-address,
seek to that address, and (read).

For instance, see src/share/algebra/USERS.DAASE/index.KAF



One existing optimization is that if the data is a simple thing like a
symbol then the nth-entry-byte-address is replaced by immediate data.

Another existing one is a compression algorithm applied to the
data so that the very long names don't take up so much space.
We could probably remove the compression algorithm as 64k is no
longer considered 'huge'. The database-abbreviation routine
handles this on read and write-compress handles this on write.
The squeeze routine is used to compress the keys, the unsqueeze
routine uncompresses them. Making these two routines disappear
should remove all of the compression.


Indeed, a faster optimization is to simply read the whole database
into the image before it is saved. The system would be easier to
understand and the interpreter would be faster.


The fastest optimization is to fix the time stamp mechanism
which is currently broken. Making this work requires a small
bit of coordination at 'make' time which I forgot to implement.





2) *miss*  ===============================================


Note that if you do

)lisp (setq *miss* t)

you can see when an interpreter lookup has "missed" the in-core
tables and needs to fetch information from the databases.






3) DATABASE FILES ===============================================

Database files are very similar to KAF files except that there
is an optimization (currently broken) which makes the first
item a pair of two numbers. The first number in the pair is
the offset of the key-value table, the second is a time stamp.
If the time stamp in the database matches the time stamp in
the image the database is not needed (since the internal hash
tables already contain all of the information). When the database
is built the time stamp is saved in both the gcl image and the
database.
 



Here I'll try to outline the interp database write procedure

(defun write-interpdb ()
 "build interp.daase from hash tables"
 (declare (special $spadroot) (special *ancestors-hash*))
 (let (opalistpos modemapspos cmodemappos master masterpos obj *print-pretty*
	concategory categorypos kind niladic cosig abbrev defaultdomain
	ancestors ancestorspos out)
  (declare (special *print-pretty*))
  (print "building interp.daase")

; 1. We open the file we're going to create

  (setq out (open "interp.build" :direction :output))

; 2. We reserve some space at the top of the file for the key-time pair
;    We will overwrite these spaces just before we close the file.

  (princ "                              " out)

; 3. Make sure we write it out
  (finish-output out)

; 4. For every constructor in the system we write the parts:

  (dolist (constructor (|allConstructors|))
   (let (struct)

; 4a. Each constructor has a property list. A property list is a list
;     of (key . value) pairs. The property we want is called 'database
;     so there is a ('database . something) in the property list

    (setq struct (get constructor 'database))

; 5 We write the "operationsalist"
; 5a. We remember the current file position before we write
;     We need this information so we can seek to this position on read

    (setq opalistpos (file-position out))

; 5b. We get the "operationalist", compress it, and write it out

    (print (squeeze (database-operationalist struct)) out)

; 5c. We make sure it was written

    (finish-output out)

; 6 We write the "constructormodemap"
; 6a. We remember the current file position before we write

    (setq cmodemappos (file-position out))

; 6b. We get the "constructormodemap", compress it, and write it out

    (print (squeeze (database-constructormodemap struct)) out)

; 6c. We make sure it was written

    (finish-output out)

; 7. We write the "modemaps"
; 7a. We remember the current file position before we write

    (setq modemapspos (file-position out))

; 7b. We get the "modemaps", compress it, and write it out

    (print (squeeze (database-modemaps struct)) out)

; 7c. We make sure it was written

    (finish-output out)

; 8. We remember source file pathnames in the obj variable

    (if (consp (database-object struct)) ; if asharp code ...
     (setq obj
      (cons (pathname-name (car (database-object struct)))
            (cdr (database-object struct))))
     (setq obj
      (pathname-name
        (first (last (pathname-directory (database-object struct)))))))

; 9. We write the "constructorcategory", if it is a category, else nil
; 9a. Get the constructorcategory and compress it

    (setq concategory (squeeze (database-constructorcategory struct)))

; 9b. If we have any data we write it out, else we don't write it
;     Note that if there is no data then the byte index for the
;     constructorcatagory will not be a number but will be nil.

    (if concategory  ; if category then write data else write nil
     (progn
      (setq categorypos (file-position out))
      (print concategory out)
      (finish-output out))
     (setq categorypos nil))

; 10. We get a set of properties which are kept as "immediate" data
;     This means that the key table will hold this data directly
;     rather than as a byte index into the file.
; 10a. niladic data

    (setq niladic (database-niladic struct))

; 10b. abbreviation data (e.g. POLY for polynomial)

    (setq abbrev (database-abbreviation struct))

; 10c. cosig data

    (setq cosig (database-cosig struct))

; 10d. kind data

    (setq kind (database-constructorkind struct))

; 10e. defaultdomain data

    (setq defaultdomain (database-defaultdomain struct))

; 11. The ancestor data might exist. If it does we fetch it, 
;     compress it, and write it out. If it does not we place
;     and immediate value of nil in the key-value table

    (setq ancestors (squeeze (gethash constructor *ancestors-hash*))) ;cattable.boot
    (if ancestors
     (progn
      (setq ancestorspos (file-position out))
      (print ancestors out)
      (finish-output out))
     (setq ancestorspos nil))

; 12. "master" is an alist. Each element of the alist has the name of
;     the constructor and all of the above attributes. When the loop
;     finishes we will have constructed all of the data for the key-value
;     table

    (push (list constructor opalistpos cmodemappos modemapspos
      obj categorypos niladic abbrev cosig kind defaultdomain
      ancestorspos) master)))

; 13. The loop is done, we make sure all of the data is written

  (finish-output out)

; 14. We remember where the key-value table will be written in the file

  (setq masterpos (file-position out))

; 15. We compress and print the key-value table

  (print (mapcar #'squeeze master) out)

; 16. We make sure we write the table

  (finish-output out)

; 17. We go to the top of the file

  (file-position out 0)

; 18. We write out the (master-byte-position . universal-time) pair
;     Note that if the universal-time value matches the value of
;     *interp-stream-stamp* then there is no reason to read the
;     interp database because all of the data is already cached in
;     the image. This happens if you build a database and immediatly
;     save the image. The saved image already has the data since we
;     just wrote it out. If the *interp-stream-stamp* and the database
;     time stamp differ we "reread" the database on startup. Actually
;     we just open the database and fetch as needed. You can see fetches
;     by setting the *miss* variable non-nil.

  (print (cons masterpos (get-universal-time)) out)

; 19. We make sure we write it.

  (finish-output out)

; 20 And we are done

  (close out)))






4) DAASE.LISP DOCUMENTATION =========================================

;;TTT 7/2/97
; Regarding the 'ancestors field for a category: At database build
; time there exists a *ancestors-hash* hash table that gets filled
; with CATEGORY (not domain) ancestor information. This later provides
; the information that goes into interp.daase This *ancestors-hash*
; does not exist at normal runtime (it can be made by a call to
; genCategoryTable). Note that the ancestor information in
; *ancestors-hash* (and hence interp.daase) involves #1, #2, etc
; instead of R, Coef, etc. The latter thingies appear in all
; .NRLIB/index.KAF files. So we need to be careful when we )lib
; categories and update the ancestor info.


; This file contains the code to build, open and access the .DAASE
; files this file contains the code to )library NRLIBS and asy files

; There is a major issue about the data that resides in these
; databases.  the fundamental problem is that the system requires more
; information to build the databases than it needs to run the
; interpreter.  in particular, MODEMAP.DAASE is constructed using
; properties like "modemaps" but the interpreter will never ask for
; this information.

; So, the design is as follows:
;  first, the MODEMAP.DAASE needs to be built. this is done by doing
; a )library on ALL of the NRLIB files that are going into the system.
; this will bring in "modemap" information and add it to the
; *modemaps-hash* hashtable.
;  next, database build proceeds, accessing the "modemap" property
; from the hashtables. once this completes this information is never
; used again.
;  next, the interp.daase database is built. this contains only the
; information necessary to run the interpreter. note that during the
; running of the interpreter users can extend the system by do a
; )library on a new NRLIB file. this will cause fields such as "modemap"
; to be read and hashed.

; In the old system each constructor (e.g. LIST) had one library directory
; (e.g. LIST.NRLIB). this directory contained a random access file called
; the index.KAF file. the interpreter needed this KAF file at runtime for
; two entries, the operationAlist and the ConstructorModemap.
; during the redesign for the new compiler we decided to merge all of
; these .NRLIB/index.KAF files into one database, INTERP.DAASE.
; requests to get information from this database are intended to be
; cached so that multiple references do not cause additional disk i/o.
; this database is left open at all times as it is used frequently by
; the interpreter. one minor complication is that newly compiled files
; need to override information that exists in this database.
;   The design calls for constructing a random read (KAF format) file
; that is accessed by functions that cache their results. when the
; database is opened the list of constructor-index pairs is hashed
; by constructor name. a request for information about a constructor
; causes the information to replace the index in the hash table. since
; the index is a number and the data is a non-numeric sexpr there is
; no source of confusion about when the data needs to be read.
;
; The format of this new database is as follows:
;
;first entry:
; an integer giving the byte offset to the constructor alist
; at the bottom of the file
;second and subsequent entries (one per constructor)
; (operationAlist)
; (constructorModemap)
; ....
;last entry: (pointed at by the first entry)
; an alist of (constructor . index) e.g.
;  ( (PI offset-of-operationAlist offset-of-constructorModemap)
;   (NNI offset-of-operationAlist offset-of-constructorModemap)
;    ....)
; This list is read at open time and hashed by the car of each item.

; the system has been changed to use the property list of the
; symbols rather than hash tables. since we already hashed once
; to get the symbol we need only an offset to get the property
; list. this also has the advantage that eq hash tables no longer
; need to be moved during garbage collection.
;  there are 3 potential speedups that could be done. the best
; would be to use the value cell of the symbol rather than the
; property list but i'm unable to determine all uses of the
; value cell at the present time.
;  a second speedup is to guarantee that the property list is
; a single item, namely the database structure. this removes
; an assoc but leaves one open to breaking the system if someone
; adds something to the property list. this was not done because
; of the danger mentioned.
;  a third speedup is to make the getdatabase call go away, either
; by making it a macro or eliding it entirely. this was not done
; because we want to keep the flexibility of changing the database
; forms.

; the new design does not use hash tables. the database structure
; contains an entry for each item that used to be in a hash table.
; initially the structure contains file-position pointers and
; these are replaced by real data when they are first looked up.
; the database structure is kept on the property list of the
; constructor, thus, (get '|DenavitHartenbergMatrix| 'database)
; will return the database structure object.

; each operation has a property on its symbol name called 'operation
; which is a list of all of the signatures of operations with that name.

; -- tim daly






5) CREATING DATABASES =============================================

; making new databases consists of:
;  1) reset all of the system hash tables
;  *) set up Union, Record and Mapping
;  2) map )library across all of the system files (fills the databases)
;  3) loading some normally autoloaded files
;  4) making some database entries that are computed (like ancestors)
;  5) writing out the databases
;  6) write out 'warm' data to be loaded into the image at build time
; note that this process should be done in a clean image
; followed by a rebuild of the system image to include
; the new index pointers (e.g. *interp-stream-stamp*)
; the system will work without a rebuild but it needs to
; re-read the databases on startup. rebuilding the system
; will cache the information into the image and the databases
; are opened but not read, saving considerable startup time.
; also note that the order the databases are written out is
; critical. interp.daase depends on prior computations and has
; to be written out last.


t




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Dear Waldek, Tim, Cliff,

Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

> > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> > > 
> > > I agree that algebra bootstrap should be revisited.  But IMHO the
> > > main work to do is outside Makefiles: I think that algebra should
> > > build just from spad files using Spad compiler and almost empty 
> > > databases.
> > 
> > Agree, but that's more than just the main work - it's a massive
> > undertaking.
> >
> 
> I think it is easier then you think.  

I agree. The only thing one has to do is to rebuild the databases after each
layer. In fact, I did this manually to build an Axiom with my Guessing
Package...

I said 

make DAASE=../../int

after each layer. (It's a pain, but it works.)

Tim, you wrote the Makefile, do you know how to automate this?

Martin




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Hi, 

what about the BSDs? For some time I think I am the only one :-( 

Gernot 


Gabriel Dos Reis writes: 

> "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes: 
> 
> | Is anyone working on Axiom for OS X? 
> 
> Not right now, but I need to get to it, because 66% of my students
> runs on MACs. 
> 
> -- Gaby 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Axiom-developer mailing list
> Axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiom-developer
 




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--- Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote:
> > > 
> > > I agree that algebra bootstrap should be revisited.  But IMHO the
> > > main work to do is outside Makefiles: I think that algebra should
> > > build just from spad files using Spad compiler and almost empty 
> > > databases.
> > 
> > Agree, but that's more than just the main work - it's a massive
> > undertaking.
> 
> I think it is easier then you think.  At the begining one has no
> idea what to do.  But once you start changing things the system
> break down and studing breakage teaches you a lot how it works.
> And regardles of how much work it takes it must be done: IMO system
> which has huge uneditable blobs as "sources" too hard to maintain.

Ah, I see what you're getting at.  (Sorry, the "just from spad" part
triggered the old boot language debate memory files.)  Yes, absolutely
- any maintainance nightmare we can remove from Axiom has to be
removed.

> AFAICS axiom_cmu build algebra the same way as GCL version. Main
> difference is that axiom_cmu makes some ANSI corrections (but not
> enough to compile it using SBCL), and skips boot directory.
> Motivated by axiom_cmu I made a patch to build-improvement branch
> which skips boot directory:
> 
>
http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/axiom-developer/2006-10/msg00039.html

Ah!  I remember seeing that but I confess I did not appreciate the full
significance of it.  Very nice indeed.

Gaby, is there any plan to incorporate this into the build-improvements
branch?  I guess it might be a bit out of scope for that branch...

Cheers, and thanks!

CY

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> what about the BSDs? For some time I think I am the only one :-( 
> 
> Gernot 
> 
> 
> Gabriel Dos Reis writes: 
> 
> > "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes: 
> > 
> > | Is anyone working on Axiom for OS X? 
> > 
> > Not right now, but I need to get to it, because 66% of my students
> > runs on MACs. 
> > 
> > -- Gaby 


I tried FreeBSD. The key problem is that the C include file tree
diverges wildly from the linux C include file tree which requires
a lot of #ifdefs. These have to be found, one by one, which is 
very time consuming.

At one point Unix had a Linux-compatibility effort but I'm have
yet to run across it. Are you aware of this work?

Tim



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root writes: 

>> what about the BSDs? For some time I think I am the only one :-(  
>> 
>> Gernot  
>> 
>> 
>> Gabriel Dos Reis writes:  
>> 
>> > "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes: 
>> > 
>> > | Is anyone working on Axiom for OS X? 
>> > 
>> > Not right now, but I need to get to it, because 66% of my students
>> > runs on MACs. 
>> > 
>> > -- Gaby 
>  
> 
> I tried FreeBSD. The key problem is that the C include file tree
> diverges wildly from the linux C include file tree which requires
> a lot of #ifdefs. These have to be found, one by one, which is 
> very time consuming. 
> 
> At one point Unix had a Linux-compatibility effort but I'm have
> yet to run across it. Are you aware of this work? 
> 
> Tim

Hi, 

my last try (before the new configure) was not really that problem. However, 
AFAIK FreeBSD is does not yet support gcl >2.6.7. 

I have Axiom patch-49, gcl-2.6.7 + dynamic loader support, and axiom 1.0.3  
running on a FreeBSD 6.1 system. (I posted a patchset to the list some time 
ago). Hopefully, after next week I can spend some more time on these issues. 

Gernot 





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Gernot,

Please send me a diff -Naur of your version and --patch-50
and I'll see if I can get it running on my FreeBSD machine.

t



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Ok, actually I have a tight schedule until Thursday ... but I try to do it 
ASAP. 

Gernot 

root writes: 

> Gernot, 
> 
> Please send me a diff -Naur of your version and --patch-50
> and I'll see if I can get it running on my FreeBSD machine. 
> 
> t
 




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> I agree. The only thing one has to do is to rebuild the databases after each
> layer. In fact, I did this manually to build an Axiom with my Guessing
> Package...
> 
> I said 
> 
> make DAASE=../../int
> 
> after each layer. (It's a pain, but it works.)
> 
> Tim, you wrote the Makefile, do you know how to automate this?

yep. i'm hacking that into the makefiles now. --t



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > (1) it leads to wrong behaviour; this is factual.
| 
| But Axiom's been like this for years.

It does not mean it was correct :-)

| What is wrong about the behavior?

I explained the behaviour that you can reproduce.  Try it with depsys,
bootsys.

| > (1) all the settings of that variable I've audited do not seem to agree on
| >     on a single value.  Consequently, it is wrong on semantics
| >     consideration. (Yes, I appreciate the settings are conditional).
| 
| What do you believe is the correct setting? And why?

(1) Setting the variable leads to the wrong behaviour I described earlier.
(2) Then, I went to grep for that variable.  The output is that it is
    not set to any coherent value.
(3) commenting its setting leads to a coherent behaviour.

| I'm not saying you are wrong, I just need to understand your reasoning.

I understand that :-)

-- Gaby



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C Y <smustudent1@yahoo.com> writes:

[...]

| http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/axiom-developer/2006-10/msg00039.html
| 
| Ah!  I remember seeing that but I confess I did not appreciate the full
| significance of it.  Very nice indeed.
| 
| Gaby, is there any plan to incorporate this into the build-improvements
| branch?  I guess it might be a bit out of scope for that branch...

It could be made into configure option.

However, I've studying src/boot and I've slowling moing to the
direction that it should be retained in favour of "old" boot (that
should be removed).

-- Gaby



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > The real fix, is to test for $$fail, NOT $$failcmd.  Notice fail is
| > set when --keep is specified.
| > 
| 
| Yes, like:
| 
| --- config/setup-dep.mk	(wersja 182)
| +++ config/setup-dep.mk	(kopia robocza)
| @@ -35,7 +35,7 @@
|  	done; \
|  	if test "$$dot_seen" = "no"; then \
|  	   $(ENV) $(MAKE) "$$target-ax" || exit 1; \
| -	fi; test -z "$$failcmd"
| +	fi; test -z "$$fail"
|  
|  ## Rules to make DVI files from pamphlets

Yes, please check it in wioth a ChangeLog entry.

Thanks!

-- Gaby



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"Gernot Hueber" <ghue@xmt.at> writes:

| Hi, what about the BSDs? For some time I think I am the only one :-(

Currently, you cannot build build-improvements on *BSD because I use
some GNUisms in the Makefile (e.g. "export").  That will be fixed later
by using MAKEFLAGS.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: Axiom for OS X and the BSDs
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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > what about the BSDs? For some time I think I am the only one :-( 
| > 
| > Gernot 
| > 
| > 
| > Gabriel Dos Reis writes: 
| > 
| > > "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes: 
| > > 
| > > | Is anyone working on Axiom for OS X? 
| > > 
| > > Not right now, but I need to get to it, because 66% of my students
| > > runs on MACs. 
| > > 
| > > -- Gaby 
| 
| 
| I tried FreeBSD. The key problem is that the C include file tree
| diverges wildly from the linux C include file tree which requires
| a lot of #ifdefs. These have to be found, one by one, which is 
| very time consuming.

That should be properly investigated and use Aclocal.  That is
standard.

-- Gaby



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> This is not a valid database file.
> I'll see if I can document the structure of such a file.
> 
> t
> 
> 
> (30 . 3469429128)
> ((|Category| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL T NIL (NIL) NIL NIL NIL) (|Union| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL) (|Record| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL) (|Mapping| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL) (|Enumeration| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL))
> 


Why do you think that this database is invalid?  AFAICS it follows 
your description of database format (and agrees with comment and code
in daase.lisp.pamphlet).  More precisely: 30 gives you file offset of
the key-value table (I wrote that you need to add whitespace padding).
The timestamp is bogus, but this should not hurt.  Note that
standard constructors do not need extra fields, so the first part
which appears in typical databese is ommited.  Also, the database is
uncompressed (for better readability).

Am I missing something?

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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> > This is not a valid database file.
> > I'll see if I can document the structure of such a file.
> > 
> > t
> > 
> > 
> > (30 . 3469429128)
> > ((|Category| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL T NIL (NIL) NIL NIL NIL) (|Union| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL) (|Record| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL) (|Mapping| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL) (|Enumeration| NIL NIL NIL "NIL" NIL NIL NIL (NIL) |domain| NIL NIL))
> > 
> 
> 
> Why do you think that this database is invalid?  AFAICS it follows 
> your description of database format (and agrees with comment and code
> in daase.lisp.pamphlet).  More precisely: 30 gives you file offset of
> the key-value table (I wrote that you need to add whitespace padding).
> The timestamp is bogus, but this should not hurt.  Note that
> standard constructors do not need extra fields, so the first part
> which appears in typical databese is ommited.  Also, the database is
> uncompressed (for better readability).
> 
> Am I missing something?

checking....

t



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Actually, it appears you are correct. I was confused by the compression.
At some point in the near future we should eliminate the compression
and that would eliminate the compress.daase file completely.

t



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You've clearly spent a fair amount of time understanding things
about axiom. Hopefully you're documenting as you learn so we can
all benefit from your work.

t



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Martin Rubey wrote:
> Dear Waldek, Tim, Cliff,
> 
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> > > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> > > > 
> > > > I agree that algebra bootstrap should be revisited.  But IMHO the
> > > > main work to do is outside Makefiles: I think that algebra should
> > > > build just from spad files using Spad compiler and almost empty 
> > > > databases.
> > > 
> > > Agree, but that's more than just the main work - it's a massive
> > > undertaking.
> > >
> > 
> > I think it is easier then you think.  
> 
> I agree. The only thing one has to do is to rebuild the databases after each
> layer. In fact, I did this manually to build an Axiom with my Guessing
> Package...
> 
> I said 
> 
> make DAASE=../../int
> 
> after each layer. (It's a pain, but it works.)
> 

I do not think it is _that_ easy.  As I wrote, Axiom remembers (large part
of) old database in the image, so at first you may not notice missing
database entries.  But then you are likely to hit something not cached
into the image and you will get runtime error.  Have you tried to
dump database after LAYER3?  For me Axiom crashed.

I have fixed Axiom so that before reading new data Axiom erases old data.
After that if you load empty database you wil notice compilation errors
since Axiom lost (most of) its knowledge about types.  So, to bootstarap
from scratch you need some fake categories and carefully chosen compilation
order (quite different than the current order).


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] Re: Axiom for OS X and the BSDs
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=20

> "Gernot Hueber" <ghue@xmt.at> writes:
>=20
> | Hi, what about the BSDs? For some time I think I am the only one :-(
>=20
> Currently, you cannot build build-improvements on *BSD because I use
> some GNUisms in the Makefile (e.g. "export").  That will be=20
> fixed later
> by using MAKEFLAGS.
>=20
> -- Gaby

All BSD systems have Gnu Make (gmake) as a port (package). And many
other ports
depend on it. So Axiom should just require that port as well.

Regards

Juergen Weiss

Juergen Weiss	  | Universitaet Mainz, Zentrum fuer Datenverarbeitung,
weiss@uni-mainz.de| 55099 Mainz, Tel: +49(6131)39-26361, FAX:
+49(6131)39-26407



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> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> | > The real fix, is to test for $$fail, NOT $$failcmd.  Notice fail is
> | > set when --keep is specified.
> | > 
> | 
> | Yes, like:
> | 
> | --- config/setup-dep.mk	(wersja 182)
> | +++ config/setup-dep.mk	(kopia robocza)
> | @@ -35,7 +35,7 @@
> |  	done; \
> |  	if test "$$dot_seen" = "no"; then \
> |  	   $(ENV) $(MAKE) "$$target-ax" || exit 1; \
> | -	fi; test -z "$$failcmd"
> | +	fi; test -z "$$fail"
> |  
> |  ## Rules to make DVI files from pamphlets
> 
> Yes, please check it in wioth a ChangeLog entry.
> 

Commited.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Weiss, Juergen writes: 

>   
> 
>> "Gernot Hueber" <ghue@xmt.at> writes: 
>> 
>> | Hi, what about the BSDs? For some time I think I am the only one :-( 
>> 
>> Currently, you cannot build build-improvements on *BSD because I use
>> some GNUisms in the Makefile (e.g. "export").  That will be 
>> fixed later
>> by using MAKEFLAGS. 
>> 
>> -- Gaby
> 
> All BSD systems have Gnu Make (gmake) as a port (package). And many
> other ports
> depend on it. So Axiom should just require that port as well.

... and a gawk package. The axiom main branch also requries a bash, also 
available as package. In fact, from my point of view these are only minor 
problems - that means: easily solvable. I think more serious is the gcl 
version lag at least for FreeBSD where 2.6.7 is current. 

regards 

Gernot 


> 
> Regards 
> 
> Juergen Weiss 
> 
> Juergen Weiss	  | Universitaet Mainz, Zentrum fuer Datenverarbeitung,
> weiss@uni-mainz.de| 55099 Mainz, Tel: +49(6131)39-26361, FAX:
> +49(6131)39-26407
 




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"Weiss, Juergen" <weiss@uni-mainz.de> writes:

|  
| 
| > "Gernot Hueber" <ghue@xmt.at> writes:
| > 
| > | Hi, what about the BSDs? For some time I think I am the only one :-(
| > 
| > Currently, you cannot build build-improvements on *BSD because I use
| > some GNUisms in the Makefile (e.g. "export").  That will be 
| > fixed later
| > by using MAKEFLAGS.
| > 
| > -- Gaby
| 
| All BSD systems have Gnu Make (gmake) as a port (package).

Yes, I tried the SF *BSD host and the build stopped; so I moved on
something else :-)

 And many
| other ports
| depend on it. So Axiom should just require that port as well.

Great!

The configure in build-improvements checks for gmake, but it does not
enforce it.  It probably should.

-- Gaby



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Axiom will build properly on gcl-2.6.7
You just have to set the GCLVERSION variable and fetch the 
gcl-2.6.7.tgz from the archive and put it in the zips directory.

t



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: Axiom for OS X and the BSDs
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"Gernot Hueber" <ghue@xmt.at> writes:

| Weiss, Juergen writes:
| >
| >> "Gernot Hueber" <ghue@xmt.at> writes: | Hi, what about the BSDs?
| >> For some time I think I am the only one :-(
| >> Currently, you cannot build build-improvements on *BSD because I use
| >> some GNUisms in the Makefile (e.g. "export").  That will be fixed
| >> later
| >> by using MAKEFLAGS. -- Gaby
| > All BSD systems have Gnu Make (gmake) as a port (package). And many
| > other ports
| > depend on it. So Axiom should just require that port as well.
| 
| ... and a gawk package. The axiom main branch also requries a bash,
| also available as package. In fact, from my point of view these are
| only minor problems - that means: easily solvable. I think more
| serious is the gcl version lag at least for FreeBSD where 2.6.7 is
| current. regards Gernot

I use GCL-2.6.7 to build Axiom daily.

-- Gaby



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From: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: [Axiom-developer] database fixes
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Below is a patch that fixes few problems with databases:

1) If old database contained constructors or operations which
   were removed from new database, Axiom kept using old data.
   The patch cleans old data

2) Patch adds ability to dump uncompressed databases (easier to
   read): to get uncompressed format just set *do-not-compress-databases*
   to t

3) Patch improves formatting in showdatabase

4) Patch omits separate loading of topic.o in make-databases (topic.o
   is loaded anyway as part of the browser

5) correction to comment describing database structure

diff -u pp/build-improvements/src/interp/daase.lisp.pamphlet build-improvements-1012.nn2/src/interp/daase.lisp.pamphlet
--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/daase.lisp.pamphlet	2006-09-08 02:59:43.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements-1012.nn2/src/interp/daase.lisp.pamphlet	2006-10-16 22:24:41.590936240 +0200
@@ -206,6 +206,8 @@
 
 (defvar *miss* nil "print out cache misses on getdatabase calls")
 
+(defvar *do-not-compress-databases* nil)
+
    ; note that constructorcategory information need only be kept for
    ; items of type category. this will be fixed in the next iteration
    ; when the need for the various caches are reviewed
@@ -377,7 +379,7 @@
 ;	  constructormodemap for domains and packages so it is stored
 ;	  as NIL for them. it is valid for categories.
 ;    niladic		 -- t or nil directly
-;    unused
+;    abbreviation        -- kept directly
 ;    cosig		 -- kept directly
 ;    constructorkind	 -- kept directly
 ;    defaultdomain	 -- a short list, for %i
@@ -391,6 +393,13 @@
   (setq stamp (read *interp-stream*))
   (unless (equal stamp *interp-stream-stamp*)
    (format t "   Re-reading interp.daase")
+
+   ; Clean old data
+   (do-symbols (symbol)
+      (when (get symbol 'database)
+         (setf (get symbol 'database) nil)))
+   (setq *allconstructors* nil)
+
    (setq *interp-stream-stamp* stamp)
    (setq pos (car stamp))
    (file-position *interp-stream* pos)
@@ -499,6 +508,11 @@
    (setq pos (car stamp))
    (file-position *operation-stream* pos)
    (setq operations (read *operation-stream*))
+
+   ; Clean old data
+   (setq *operation-hash* (make-hash-table))
+   (setq *allOperations* nil)
+
    (dolist (item operations)
     (setq item (unsqueeze item))
     (setf (gethash (car item) *operation-hash*) (cdr item))))
@@ -526,15 +540,15 @@
   (getdatabase constructor 'cosig))
  (format t "~a: ~a~%" 'operation
   (getdatabase constructor 'operation))
- (format t "~a: ~%" 'constructormodemap)
+ (format t "~a: " 'constructormodemap)
   (pprint (getdatabase constructor 'constructormodemap))
- (format t "~&~a: ~%" 'constructorcategory)
+ (format t "~&~a: " 'constructorcategory)
   (pprint (getdatabase constructor 'constructorcategory))
- (format t "~&~a: ~%" 'operationalist)
+ (format t "~&~a: " 'operationalist)
   (pprint (getdatabase constructor 'operationalist))
- (format t "~&~a: ~%" 'modemaps)
+ (format t "~&~a: " 'modemaps)
   (pprint (getdatabase constructor 'modemaps))
- (format t "~a: ~a~%" 'hascategory
+ (format t "~&~a: ~a~%" 'hascategory
   (getdatabase constructor 'hascategory))
  (format t "~a: ~a~%" 'object
   (getdatabase constructor 'object))
@@ -558,9 +572,9 @@
   (getdatabase constructor 'constructorargs))
  (format t "~a: ~a~%" 'attributes
   (getdatabase constructor 'attributes))
- (format t "~a: ~%" 'predicates)
+ (format t "~a: " 'predicates)
   (pprint (getdatabase constructor 'predicates))
- (format t "~a: ~a~%" 'documentation
+ (format t "~&~a: ~a~%" 'documentation
   (getdatabase constructor 'documentation))
  (format t "~a: ~a~%" 'parents
   (getdatabase constructor 'parents)))
@@ -1104,6 +1118,7 @@
   (setq *operation-hash* (make-hash-table))
   (setq *allconstructors* nil)
   (setq *compressvector* nil)
+  (setq *allOperations* nil)
   (withSpecialConstructors)
   (localdatabase nil
      (list (list '|dir| (namestring (truename "./")) ))
@@ -1116,7 +1131,6 @@
 							  dir)))))
 			 'make-database))
 ;browse.daase
-#+:AKCL  (load (concatenate 'string (|getEnv| "AXIOM") "/autoload/topics"))  ;; hack
   (|oldCompilerAutoloadOnceTrigger|)
   (|browserAutoloadOnceTrigger|)
 #+:AKCL    (|mkTopicHashTable|)
@@ -1389,25 +1403,27 @@
 	   expr)))
 
 (defun squeeze (expr)
- (let (leaves pos (bound (length *compressvector*)))
-  (labels (
-   (flat (expr)
-    (when (and (numberp expr) (< expr 0) (>= expr bound))
-     (print expr)
-     (break "squeeze found a negative number"))
-    (if (atom expr)
-     (unless (or (null expr)
-                 (and (symbolp expr) (char= (schar (symbol-name expr) 0) #\*)))
-      (setq leaves (adjoin expr leaves)))
-     (progn
-      (flat (car expr))
-      (flat (cdr expr))))))
-  (setq leaves nil)
-  (flat expr)
-  (dolist (leaf leaves)
-   (when (setq pos (position leaf *compressvector*))
-     (nsubst (- pos) leaf expr)))
-  expr)))
+  (if *do-not-compress-databases*
+    expr
+    (let (leaves pos (bound (length *compressvector*)))
+     (labels (
+      (flat (expr)
+       (when (and (numberp expr) (< expr 0) (>= expr bound))
+        (print expr)
+        (break "squeeze found a negative number"))
+       (if (atom expr)
+        (unless (or (null expr)
+                    (and (symbolp expr) (char= (schar (symbol-name expr) 0) #\*)))
+         (setq leaves (adjoin expr leaves)))
+        (progn
+         (flat (car expr))
+         (flat (cdr expr))))))
+     (setq leaves nil)
+     (flat expr)
+     (dolist (leaf leaves)
+      (when (setq pos (position leaf *compressvector*))
+        (nsubst (- pos) leaf expr)))
+     expr))))
 
 (defun write-operationdb ()
  (let (pos master out)

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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> 2) Patch adds ability to dump uncompressed databases (easier to
>    read): to get uncompressed format just set *do-not-compress-databases*
>    to t

I feel you should simply patch the databases to remove the
compression. It was only written so we could create databases
that could fit on one diskette (1.4M). The whole idea is
obsolete. 

There is a squeeze and an unsqueeze routine. 
Removing calls to these should create uncompressed databases.

t



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Below is a patch that fixes few problems with databases:
| 
| 1) If old database contained constructors or operations which
|    were removed from new database, Axiom kept using old data.
|    The patch cleans old data
| 
| 2) Patch adds ability to dump uncompressed databases (easier to
|    read): to get uncompressed format just set *do-not-compress-databases*
|    to t
| 
| 3) Patch improves formatting in showdatabase
| 
| 4) Patch omits separate loading of topic.o in make-databases (topic.o
|    is loaded anyway as part of the browser
| 
| 5) correction to comment describing database structure

This is looking very good.

My comments:

  (1) please, please, avoid *var*.  Use boot::var
  (2) please, please, document behaviour in the pamphlets; not just
      the code.

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| Removing calls to these should create uncompressed databases.

That sounds better.  Please, document what is happening.

-- Gaby



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>   (1) please, please, avoid *var*.  Use boot::var

The lisp coding convention uses *foo* as a "global" variable name
so this is a proper way to name it.

>   (2) please, please, document behaviour in the pamphlets; not just
>       the code.

can i get a witness! amen, amen! stand and sing, all who enter! :-0
(couldn't resist :-) )

t



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> > 2) Patch adds ability to dump uncompressed databases (easier to
> >    read): to get uncompressed format just set *do-not-compress-databases*
> >    to t
> 
> I feel you should simply patch the databases to remove the
> compression. It was only written so we could create databases
> that could fit on one diskette (1.4M). The whole idea is
> obsolete. 
> 
> There is a squeeze and an unsqueeze routine. 
> Removing calls to these should create uncompressed databases.
> 

Removing calls to unsqueeze would remove ability to read compressed
databases.  Since ATM interp.daase and category.daase are needed
for algebra bootstrap removing calls to unsqueeze requires 
uncompressed databases in the source archive. Not a big deal,
but the patch would be huge.

I am not sure if compression is obsolete: we have performance problem
with Spad compiler and databases may be part of this problem. If
we need fast reading of databases compressed version is likely to
be faster (of course there are other possibilites which may give more
speedup).  Also, uncompressed databases take 2Mb more disk space
then compressed one.

For development I want uncompressed databases, but for "production"
use compressed version has some advantages.  The advantages are
limited, so I would not write new code to handle compression. But
IMHO current compression code add very little to complexity of Axiom
so I am not sure if I want remove it (removal is easy, but what
if we need to re-add it later?). 

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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From: Alejandro Jakubi <jakubi@df.uba.ar>
To: axiom-developer@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: doyen
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Tim, Alfredo, CY

> The axiom-developer@nongnu.org mailing list is the best forum
> for this discussion. I've taken the liberty of copying your questions
> and comments to the list so we can all contribute.

> Please
> subscribe to this list so you can be up to date with the project.

I have subscribed, but I have set the filter to select those posts with the
subject doyen.

> for particular conferences. Speakers can develop literate programs
> (paper text and program code combined, ala Knuth) that run on the

The expression "literate program" is fine for a program combined with its
documentation, the subject being the program. But a paper, understood as a
piece of scientific research, should be more than the documentation of some
code. So, I beleive, an expression like "coded paper" or something equivalent
would be more suitable for a paper combined with any code that was used,
even though the same or similar techniques were used to create and process
documents in either case.

> necessary to support the software requirements of various disciplines
> such as math or physics. (Since each DoyenCD is specific to a field


> I've had discussions with Jurgen Gerhard of Maplesoft about the
> licensing issue.

An "e" seems to be missing in the cc address jgerhard@maplsoft.com.

> problem. Perhaps their new licensing scheme will allow us to create
> "custom" Doyen CDs that have keys which are registered to conference
> attendees. That would complicate the Doyen CD production but might
> make it acceptable to Maple.

Flexlm allows for limited time licences. So, licences for the period of a
conference would be like those for a limited period demo, I think. It would
require individual network activation though.

> The issue here is broader than any one particular system. I've
> proposed a project called the Computer Algebra Test Suite (CATS) which
> would create a taxonomy similiar to the NIST numerical math standard.

It sounds like the continuation of the work by Michael Wester "A Review of CAS
Mathematical Capabilities" and related reviews.

Even when I would find very useful to have such a CAS standard, I wonder how
far CAS could be standarized. I may be wrong, but I have the impression that
symbolic math is a much more diversified field than numeric math.

Many issues could be raised here. They include:

a. Neutrality. Sometimes those comparing reviews were criticized as being
designed to favor a given system.

b. Universality. The coverage of the tests will much depend on the "agenda" of
the designers of the suite. But the interests of different groups of users may
differ widely. Indeed, the subjects of interest for physicists are quite
different to those of interest for mathematicians, and they are largely
missing in open source/free CAS.

> Systems could be compared,

For physicists, the usual comparison is Mathematica vs Maple. It has been so since
the early '90s and I do not see any sign of change in the near future.

> One doesn't always want to achieve that.  The first question to be asked
> should be "is this new behavior wrong, or was the old behavior wrong?"  (In
> more subtle cases - obviously a crash is wrong.)  It is possible the 2006
> result was wrong.  That's actually an objection I have heard in the past to

Correction is one issue and reproducibility is another one.

By the way, one of my interests in looking at different CAS is checking results
in for errors...

But the need of reproducibility is basic in science and the publication of
scientific results needs dating to set the record. By merging papers and code,
the need of reproducibility of code results is made explicit. There are many
possible sources of errors in a paper, and errors arising in bugs of the CAS
that could have been used for calculations is just one of them. Whatever
happens after publication, eg whether the bug is detected and patched, the
calculations are made again, a corrected version of the paper is published,
etc, is a different issue. Anybody should be able to able to reproduce a given
result as it was published, right or wrong.

As I observe in Maple, along the late 12 years, there has been changes of the
most diverse nature in this system. They include, patched or obsoleted
libraries, changes in the language and in the format of the worksheet. Just
observe that several of the Maple entries in the Rosetta document are
currently (ie for Maple 10) obsolete. In cases that syntax is no longer
working. And it is just a few years since it was written!

CAS, when successful, are long term projects. This means that different
generations of developers would work along the time, each one with its own
preferences. What is better, whether a development following rigid rules or
accommodating to circumstances, seems to be a matter of taste. The later model
can be easily observed in Maple that seems as an accumulation of "geological
strata" with commands working in very different ways, depending on its era of
development.

> Open source software in general can track changes to the underlying systems,
> and a behavior change from one version to the next would be regarded as a
> bug. (Or maybe a fixed bug, depending.)  New versions would contain patches
> to new systems.

Most open source projects are rather new. It will be interesting to see
whether they endure decades and how do they evolve. In particular whether a
Axiom 2036 will handle correctly the a document written with the syntax of
Axiom 2006.

The evolution of the TeX system up to now, where almost any document written
in the past can be processed today as it was at its time, gives hope that this
example could be followed.

> Well, it depends on what you wanted to find inside Doyen :-). The lack of
> maybe

> FWIW, I think it is safe to say that Axiom and Maxima represent the two most
> powerful general purpose open source computer algebra systems available.

I have already Axiom and Maxima installed both in Windows and Linux (FC4 and
Debian Sarge). Curiosity, the possibility of looking at diverse systems
without the need to download and install them one by one, was my main
interest. In particular the posibility to try the latest versions. This is
important for me as ports to Windows may not be available or correspond to old
versions. And I prefer much Debian to Fedora, but stable versions may also be
old.

> general problem.  Why shouldn't it be possible to do all of this work inside
> one larger, robust, and powerful framework?  Then each new algorithm and tool
> would be immediately available for use in any new work.

Agreed. The utopia of the universal system is very nice!

> Axiom's design gives me hope for this goal - it appears to be designed
> generally enough that it can scale.  But there are many years of work ahead
> to make it a well documented and robust system.

But note. The usefulness of a system may depend on factors rather independent
of the quality of design. For instance the size and diversity of its community
of users. Quite frequently I have found that the Maple package that makes the
job was contributed by a user...

> One thing that we have lack is feedback, like yours, proposing things
> to be added to Doyen.

OK, some feedback:

1. I could not run properly doyen04262005 on my machine at home because it
produced some ammount of cloop readerror messages. It run fine on an older
machine at the office, though. Sadly, there is no md5 file to check the iso
file. Anyway, I have found that this Knoppix version boots on that old PC much
faster than the FC3 based doyen081306 on the faster machine. It takes over
five minutes. Too much!

2. I have played a little bit with the doyen wiki sandbox, executing a few
Axiom and Maxima commands, and writing some LaTeX equations. I think that this
is all that the tutorial shows that can be done right now. For this little
test, I have found the display of LaTeX and Axiom output formulas is fine,
except for roots. I would prefer fractional exponents as in $(a^2)^(3/5)$. I
find confusing a root sign with 2,3 and 5 located in three different places
around the $a$. Maxima output, on the other hand, looks very bad with those $
signs.

3. I have tried an Axiom plot but got an error message:

draw(sin(x),x=0..%pi)
    >> System error:
    Cannot create the file /tmp/gazonk0.fn.

Maxima plots do not work as gnuplot is missing. Indeed it should be added.

4. I have observed that this implementation is based on a web browser as GUI,
using png files for displaying math. I wonder why not using mathml instead.
One disadvantage of the current approach is the generation of png litter.

I have also read the Sage documentation (I will try to download it later on).
What I have understood is that they use javascript instead, but not how.

And yet another approach is that of TeXmacs. Indeed, I have found that
TeXmacs-Axiom works fine under Windows and Linux, except for ploting. So, I
beleive that it is an application that fits naturally here. In fact, I was also
expecting to find it inside...

5. One subproduct say, of your development is that the doyen CD seems to have
a fairly complete TeX installation. This is missing, in the live CDs that I
have seen up to now. It could be useful eg in case of needing a working TeX
system where it is not available.

6. The non uniform default background for the console window is bothersome to
my taste. I change it every time.

7. The Session Saver says that it has saved successfully the file
doyenWikiDB.tar.gz in /home/doyen but it saves nothing.

8. Sooner or later, the accumulation of material will force a move to a DVD as
media, but before of that, I think that there are some packages that could be
safely removed without affecting the functionality of this distro as a
scientific platform.

9. My USB drive is not mounted at boot nor any entry for it is made in
/etc/fstab. Anyway, I can mount it later on.



Regards, Alejandro Jakubi













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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] database fixes
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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
>   (2) please, please, document behaviour in the pamphlets; not just
>       the code.

What do you mean by "document behaviour in the pamphlets"?  Do you think
that I should split changes into chunks and annotate them separately?
I would oppose that: current structure is mostly seqential and IMHO
very readible, chopping it would make it less readible.

Do you think that changes I made need more comments?

Maybe you think that the explanations I included in the e-mail should
go into the pamphlet?  I do not think so, IMHO pamplet should reflect
the best version of code and history belongs to version control.

Or should I just generally add documentation to the pamphlet? I will do
but:
1) ATM I can not add much value to what is already there -- I can read
   the code but the classic rule of documentation is "documentation
   should not repeat the code"...
2) AFAIK Tim is working on the same file and scattered changes (or
   some re-organization) is likely to crate conflict with his changes.
3) For me diff is a very important tool and to make my work easier
   (or even possible) I want to do minimal changes.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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On Monday, October 16, 2006 8:47 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> ...
> 1) ATM I can not add much value to what is already there --
>    I can read the code but the classic rule of documentation is
>    "documentation should not repeat the code"...

Actually this classic rule of documentation is *not* appropriate
to literate programming. In a literate program the document contains
the code so it certainly "repeats the code" in that sense. The code
illustrates and implements the ideas described in the document. Code
and documentation are not two separate things.

> 2) AFAIK Tim is working on the same file and scattered changes
>   (or some re-organization) is likely to create conflict with his
>   changes.

No problem. That is why we use version control systems. You both
can make changes and conflicts can be easily resolved.

> 3) For me diff is a very important tool and to make my work easier
>    (or even possible) I want to do minimal changes.

If you wish to run diff on only the code you should run notangle
first to extract just the code from each literate document
(pamphlet).

What Gaby (and Tim Daly) are saying is that when you submit patches,
these patches should be changes to the pamphlet files which result
in an easy to understand document (e.g. in dvi format) and which
produce your modified code when input to notangle.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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From: "Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com>
To: "Alejandro Jakubi" <jakubi@df.uba.ar>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: doyen
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Alejandro,

> OK, some feedback:
>
> 1. I could not run properly doyen04262005 on my machine at home because it
> produced some ammount of cloop readerror messages. It run fine on an older
> machine at the office, though. Sadly, there is no md5 file to check the iso
> file. Anyway, I have found that this Knoppix version boots on that old PC much
> faster than the FC3 based doyen081306 on the faster machine. It takes over
> five minutes. Too much!

Something is wrong. Doyen does not take 5 minutes to load, not even in
a virtual machine. Can you give me the specs of the machine you are
testing please (memory - cpu - cdrom speed).

I think the doyen04262005 iso should be removed, updated or replace by the FC3.

> 2. I have played a little bit with the doyen wiki sandbox, executing a few
> Axiom and Maxima commands, and writing some LaTeX equations. I think that
> this is all that the tutorial shows that can be done right now.

The improvement of the Doyen Wiki is a work in progress :-). I will
try to put up
http://doyen.sytes.net/ again so anybody improve the content.

> For this little
> test, I have found the display of LaTeX and Axiom output formulas is fine,
> except for roots. I would prefer fractional exponents as in $(a^2)^(3/5)$. I
> find confusing a root sign with 2,3 and 5 located in three different places
> around the $a$. Maxima output, on the other hand, looks very bad with those $
> signs.

This will be fixed in the next version.

> 3. I have tried an Axiom plot but got an error message:
>
> draw(sin(x),x=0..%pi)
>     >> System error:
>     Cannot create the file /tmp/gazonk0.fn.
>
> Maxima plots do not work as gnuplot is missing. Indeed it should be added.

I am assuming you did this inside the wiki. This is not supported yet. Maybe we
can discuss this with Bill of what is needed to accomplish this.

> 4. I have observed that this implementation is based on a web browser as GUI,
> using png files for displaying math. I wonder why not using mathml instead.
> One disadvantage of the current approach is the generation of png litter.

> I have also read the Sage documentation (I will try to download it later on).
> What I have understood is that they use javascript instead, but not how.
>
> And yet another approach is that of TeXmacs. Indeed, I have found that
> TeXmacs-Axiom works fine under Windows and Linux, except for ploting. So, I
> beleive that it is an application that fits naturally here. In fact, I was also
> expecting to find it inside...

That is an open question to somebody else in the list. Bill ? :-)

> 5. One subproduct say, of your development is that the doyen CD seems to have
> a fairly complete TeX installation. This is missing, in the live CDs that I
> have seen up to now. It could be useful eg in case of needing a working TeX
> system where it is not available.

Ok. Maybe you can help me with this.

> 6. The non uniform default background for the console window is bothersome to
> my taste. I change it every time.

You mean the transparency. :-). (personal taste, my bad).

> 7. The Session Saver says that it has saved successfully the file
> doyenWikiDB.tar.gz in /home/doyen but it saves nothing.

Are you sure of this. Try to save to /home/doyen/Desktop and let me
know. Maybe there is a bug.

> 8. Sooner or later, the accumulation of material will force a move to a DVD as
> media, but before of that, I think that there are some packages that could be
> safely removed without affecting the functionality of this distro as a
> scientific platform.

It is true, but I need to be careful because is not just removing, but
removing things that do not brake the system and provide a substantial
gain in space.

> 9. My USB drive is not mounted at boot nor any entry for it is made in
> /etc/fstab. Anyway, I can mount it later on.

Can you open a bug report for this.

Thank you,

Alfredo



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From: C Y <smustudent1@yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] database fixes
To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>, daly@axiom-developer.org
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--- Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote:

> I am not sure if compression is obsolete: we have performance problem
> with Spad compiler and databases may be part of this problem. If
> we need fast reading of databases compressed version is likely to
> be faster (of course there are other possibilites which may give more
> speedup).  Also, uncompressed databases take 2Mb more disk space
> then compressed one.

I may regret opening this can of worms but since it has come up, two
questions.

1.  The main purpose of the "database" is, as I understand it, to
enable the loading of mathematical knowledge on an "as needed" basis
into Axiom rather than carry everything at once in the image?  If i've
got that right I'm impressed by the power of that design, but I wonder
how much like a "true" database query-return system Axiom's mechanisms
are.  1st question:  Would Axiom's internal "database" system be better
replaced with a "full scale" database backend, or do we do better using
a scaled down "just what we need" approach?

2.  (If #1 is "scaled down", we can skip #2.) Full scale databases in
Lisp are a bit rare, but there is this work: 
http://www.cliki.net/CommonLispPrevalence  I don't know enough to be
able to say if this "Object Prevalence" makes any sense in terms of
what Axiom needs to achieve, but perhaps it would be useful?  Does
anybody know something about the academic issues in question?

It's possible that Axiom's solution to the problem at hand is in fact
robust and optimal when applied correctly, but I thought it might be
worth mentioning the Lisp work on other database ideas to see if it is
something that could be useful.  At any rate, if Axiom does use a
"database query-return" system (or whatever the correct term is) it
would seem like a useful additon to that part of the code would be a
general overview of the design concepts and issues of databases.  Guess
I'll need to add a few papers on database theory to the reading list
;-).

Cheers,
CY

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> On Monday, October 16, 2006 8:47 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> > ...
> > 1) ATM I can not add much value to what is already there --
> >    I can read the code but the classic rule of documentation is
> >    "documentation should not repeat the code"...
> 
> Actually this classic rule of documentation is *not* appropriate
> to literate programming. In a literate program the document contains
> the code so it certainly "repeats the code" in that sense. The code
> illustrates and implements the ideas described in the document. Code
> and documentation are not two separate things.
>

Let us look at an example.  I wrote:

------------<start example>------------
....
   ; Clean old data
   (do-symbols (symbol)
      (when (get symbol 'database)
         (setf (get symbol 'database) nil)))
   (setq *allconstructors* nil)
...
------------<end example>------------

Do you think that:

------------<start example>------------
...
   <<Clean old data>>

....
....

To clean old data we loop over all symbols from [[boot]] package
and reset [[boot::database]] property to [[nil]].  We also rest
[boot::*allconstructors*]] to [[nil]].
<<Clean old data>>=
   (do-symbols (symbol)
      (when (get symbol 'database)
         (setf (get symbol 'database) nil)))
   (setq *allconstructors* nil)
------------<end example>------------

is better (I admit that as a reader I find the first version much
better).

 
> > 2) AFAIK Tim is working on the same file and scattered changes
> >   (or some re-organization) is likely to create conflict with his
> >   changes.
> 
> No problem. That is why we use version control systems. You both
> can make changes and conflicts can be easily resolved.
> 

version control detects conflicts. One has still manually resolve them.
If Tim permute hunks in one way and I in another way then resoving
conflits will require some work.

> > 3) For me diff is a very important tool and to make my work easier
> >    (or even possible) I want to do minimal changes.
> 
> If you wish to run diff on only the code you should run notangle
> first to extract just the code from each literate document
> (pamphlet).
>

If I have to notangle files before doing work on then, then why this
talk abot literate programming?  OTOH if I work on a pamphlet, but
to do diff I must first run notangle, then this is significant
extra burden (yes, I know aliases and scripts, but this is still
significant extra burden).
 
> What Gaby (and Tim Daly) are saying is that when you submit patches,
> these patches should be changes to the pamphlet files which result
> in an easy to understand document (e.g. in dvi format) and which
> produce your modified code when input to notangle.
>

The patch I wrote changed the paphlet file.  I admit that I did not
use dvi viewer to check formatting, but since the parts I changed
follow textual format using only text terminal should be OK.  

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] database fixes
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CY wrote:
> 1.  The main purpose of the "database" is, as I understand it, to
> enable the loading of mathematical knowledge on an "as needed" basis
> into Axiom rather than carry everything at once in the image?  If i've
> got that right I'm impressed by the power of that design, but I wonder
> how much like a "true" database query-return system Axiom's mechanisms
> are.  1st question:  Would Axiom's internal "database" system be better
> replaced with a "full scale" database backend, or do we do better using
> a scaled down "just what we need" approach?
>

What Axiom calls "database" is sometimes called dictionary, and performs
low level store/retrive operations.  Tim probably knows better why
current implementation was adopted, but I can offer a few speculations.
First, Axiom used to be quite large in comparison with main memories.
So Axiom developers split algebra part into small loadable modules.
Modules contained (compiled) Lisp code, but also needed extra (meta) data
(Axiom types, documentaion info, etc.).  This meta data was stored
in differnt files then Lisp code but was close to it. But meta data
was needed more frequently then code, so as a performance optimization
all meta data was just put in a few files.  To save memory and
avoid reading useless data large part of "database" was read on
demand. 

Axiom "database" is much smaller then classical "enterprise" business
databases.  Also, Axiom basically uses the most primitive queries.
OTOH of top of this "database" Axiom various "reasning" ("type checking")
routines which probably go much beyond of most databases. 

So I think that classical (or even varius experimental) databases
are bad fit for Axiom: Axiom is very demanding in aspect where
databases are likely to be weak and do not need strong parts
of a database. 

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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> 1.  The main purpose of the "database" is, as I understand it, to
> enable the loading of mathematical knowledge on an "as needed" basis
> into Axiom rather than carry everything at once in the image?  If i've
> got that right I'm impressed by the power of that design, but I wonder
> how much like a "true" database query-return system Axiom's mechanisms
> are.  1st question:  Would Axiom's internal "database" system be better
> replaced with a "full scale" database backend, or do we do better using
> a scaled down "just what we need" approach?

'database' is a bad name. these are basically external hash tables.
you open the file, read the first number, 'seek' to that location,
and read the key-value table. the entries in the table are not the
actual value (except in some cases) but are byte locations in the file.
when you're working in 64K of memory you have to be a tad clever.
now the design is somewhat pointless.

"back in the day" we learned how to use a DASD (direct access storage
device, now called a disc) so that the seek time, which dominates disk
access time, was minimized. you basically tried for a "bell curve"
centered around the middle of the seek range so the most frequent or
most likely item would be under the head at the center of the travel.
"bell curve hashing" is a dead artform these days. i'd bet you don't
know the DASD fetch numbers for your drives (seek, rotational delay,
head select delay, header/data/trailer delay, device buffer delay,
drive chain select delay, DMA controller delay) :-) ah, the joys of
being old :-)

if i were to do it now i'd either keep the hash tables in the image
or put them in a file and memory map the file. linux probably reads
the whole file into memory when it opens anyway.

t



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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
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> Bill Page wrote:
> > ... In a literate program the document contains the code so it
> > certainly "repeats the code" in that sense. The code illustrates
> > and implements the ideas described in the document. Code and
> > documentation are not two separate things.
> >
>

On Monday, October 16, 2006 11:02 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:=20
> Let us look at an example.  I wrote:
>=20
> ------------<start example>------------
> ....
>    ; Clean old data
>    (do-symbols (symbol)
>       (when (get symbol 'database)
>          (setf (get symbol 'database) nil)))
>    (setq *allconstructors* nil)
> ...
> ------------<end example>------------
>=20
> Do you think that:
>=20
> ------------<start example>------------
> ...
>    <<Clean old data>>
> ....
> To clean old data we loop over all symbols from [[boot]]
> package and reset [[boot::database]] property to [[nil]].
> We also rest [boot::*allconstructors*]] to [[nil]].
> <<Clean old data>>=3D
>    (do-symbols (symbol)
>       (when (get symbol 'database)
>          (setf (get symbol 'database) nil)))
>    (setq *allconstructors* nil)
> ------------<end example>------------
>=20
> is better (I admit that as a reader I find the first version
> much better).
>=20

When you say "as a reader", I wonder what you are reading:
the Lisp code or the dvi document that you generated from the
pamphlet file? In terms of creating a document that can be read
while sitting in a comfortable chair with your feet warmed by
the fireplace, I think your 2nd example is much better. :-)
Of course to make good sense you must also consider the overall
structure of the document. The paragraph starting "To clean
old data" should be located in the section of the document where
you describe why it is desirable to clean up the database in the
first place, i.e. including at least some of the text in the
email that you sent introducing this patch.

In general I agree that it is not very helpful to repeat verbatim
what one can easily read from the code. But we need to explain
that setting the database property to nil is the proper way to
remove undesirable information from the database. So for example
I probably would not have written:

  We also reset [boot::*allconstructors*]] to [[nil]].

Instead the text should say why we do that.

> =20
> > > 2) AFAIK Tim is working on the same file and scattered changes
> > >    (or some re-organization) is likely to create conflict with
> > >    his changes.
> >=20
> > No problem. That is why we use version control systems. You both
> > can make changes and conflicts can be easily resolved.
> >=20
>=20
> version control detects conflicts. One has still manually resolve
> them. If Tim permute hunks in one way and I in another way then
> resolving conflicts will require some work.

Yes, but there are some very good tools for doing this and the
chances of this happening (usually) are not very high. Of course
if you anticipate a major reorganization of the file, then it might
be a good idea to check with Tim or Gaby first, but that should
not stop you from contributing your work to the repository. If
everyone hesitates and only one person at a time can work on the
system, progress will be very slow.

>=20
> > > 3) For me diff is a very important tool and to make my work
> > >    easier (or even possible) I want to do minimal changes.
> >=20
> > If you wish to run diff on only the code you should run notangle
> > first to extract just the code from each literate document
> > (pamphlet).
> >
>=20
> If I have to notangle files before doing work on then, then why
> this talk about literate programming?

When you said "diff is a very important tool" I understood that
as implying that you were primarily interested in comparing the
program code in one file with the program code in another file.

> OTOH if I work on a pamphlet, but to do diff I must first run
> notangle, then this is significant extra burden (yes, I know
> aliases and scripts, but this is still significant extra burden).
>

Certainly it is possible to use diff on pamphlet files but in
some cases the result might include more than you are interested
in if someone has taken the time to add a lot of new (important!)
documentation to the file. Just like sometimes it is interesting
to run diff on a latex file, but most times not, because what we
are (usually) interested in when writing a latex document is the
final result not the details of source line indentation and coding.

But if we are debugging a problem and are deeply into the flow
of a program, then it makes sense to me to focus on the code by
using notangle first, just the way the compiler/makefile would.
 =20
> > What Gaby (and Tim Daly) are saying is that when you submit
> > patches, these patches should be changes to the pamphlet files
> > which result in an easy to understand document (e.g. in dvi
> > format) and which produce your modified code when input to
> > notangle.
> >
>=20
> The patch I wrote changed the pamphlet file.  I admit that I did
> not use dvi viewer to check formatting, but since the parts I
> changed follow textual format using only text terminal should be
> OK. =20

Actually I agree. Your original patch was not so bad - it is
just that it did not add any explanation to the document itself.
It improved the program but did not improve the document.

I would say that the main point of using a dvi viewer is not just
to check the formatting, but rather to focus on the document the
way new reader of the document would. You can ask yourself: Does
this document describe properly what this program is doing and why
I made the changes that I did?

Maybe the change in attitude from "documenting a program" to
"writing a literate program" is rather subtle. If you read the
literate programming news groups and web sites you will see that
many people have tried to explain this difference many times. So
I am not so confident that my attempt to do it again will be much
clearer. If not, I am sorry.

In any case, I do very much appreciate your work on this problem
and your willingness to contribute it to the Axiom source code
repositories. Thank you very much! :-)

Regards,
Bill Page.



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> > On Monday, October 16, 2006 8:47 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> > > ...
> > > 1) ATM I can not add much value to what is already there --
> > >    I can read the code but the classic rule of documentation is
> > >    "documentation should not repeat the code"...
> > 
> > Actually this classic rule of documentation is *not* appropriate
> > to literate programming. In a literate program the document contains
> > the code so it certainly "repeats the code" in that sense. The code
> > illustrates and implements the ideas described in the document. Code
> > and documentation are not two separate things.
> >
> 
> .....[snip].....
> 
> is better (I admit that as a reader I find the first version much
> better).

i think that we need actual sentences to describe what the code does.
we also need paragraphs that explain the big picture of what the file
is trying to do.

axiom has tons of "dirt simple, obvious code". i know because i always
try to write the easiest, most straightforward code i can. now, 15 years
later, i cannot remember WHY i wrote the code. i can tell you that it
manipulates a data structure and how it manipulates it. i can't tell you:

  why the data structure exists
  what the fields mean
  why that structure was chosen
  why the code manipulates the data (fetch, store, modify) 
  what design choices were rejected and why
  why this file exists and what problem is it solving

i agree that documentation like:

  (setq x 3) ; set x to 3

is useless. but if it said

  (setq x 3) ; this maximizes the optimization level for space

then it would be useful. the issue isn't "line-for-line".
the issue is writing for people, not the machine.






 
> > > 2) AFAIK Tim is working on the same file and scattered changes
> > >   (or some re-organization) is likely to create conflict with his
> > >   changes.
> > 
> > No problem. That is why we use version control systems. You both
> > can make changes and conflicts can be easily resolved.
> > 
> 
> version control detects conflicts. One has still manually resolve them.
> If Tim permute hunks in one way and I in another way then resoving
> conflits will require some work.
> 

don't let this stop you. i ALWAYS hand merge EVERY change to the system
so i have a way of resolving every conflict. i do this because axiom is
not some piece of code someplace but an idea in my head. unless i put
the changes into my head the whole system will become "magic". i don't
believe in magic and i can't write correct programs if i don't understand
the programs.

so change anything you want..... but make sure you explain the how and
why of the changes. pretend you're writing the documentation for me
(because i'm going to read it that way anyway).







> > What Gaby (and Tim Daly) are saying is that when you submit patches,
> > these patches should be changes to the pamphlet files which result
> > in an easy to understand document (e.g. in dvi format) and which
> > produce your modified code when input to notangle.
> >
> 
> The patch I wrote changed the paphlet file.  I admit that I did not
> use dvi viewer to check formatting, but since the parts I changed
> follow textual format using only text terminal should be OK.  

ummm, well, the pamphlet file IS the source code.
if you changed the lisp code would you post a change without trying it?
if you changed the latex would you post a change without trying it?

it's all 'one thing', not code+documentation.
think of latex as a compiler stage.
always latex the sources, always compile and run the sources.

(gaby and bill disagree with me)

t



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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
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On Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:09 AM Tim Daly wrote:

> ...
>
> Waldek Hebisch wrote
> >=20
> > The patch I wrote changed the paphlet file.  I admit that I did
> > not use dvi viewer to check formatting, but since the parts I
> > changed follow textual format using only text terminal should be
> > OK. =20
>=20
> ummm, well, the pamphlet file IS the source code. if you changed
> the lisp code would you post a change without trying it? if you
> changed the latex would you post a change without trying it?
>=20
> it's all 'one thing', not code+documentation.
> think of latex as a compiler stage.
> always latex the sources, always compile and run the sources.
>=20
> (gaby and bill disagree with me)
>=20

Actually I don't think we disagree. At least I do agree that
running latex on the noweave output from a modified pamphlet file
is an essential step in creating a literate program. The only
issue that I recall debating is whether it makes sense to always
perform this noweave/latex step even when you know that no changes
have been made, e.g. when trying to compile the Axiom system from
an unmodified source distribution on a new system (which may or
may not have latex installed). I believe there are practical
instances (such as the case of the SourceForge compile farm) where
not being able to disable the generation of the human readable
documentation is quite inconvenient. For that reason I think that
it makes sense to provide a 'make' option that omits this step
when desirable.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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From: Alejandro Jakubi <jakubi@df.uba.ar>
To: Alfredo Portes <doyenatccny@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: doyen
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Alfredo

> Something is wrong. Doyen does not take 5 minutes to load, not even in
> a virtual machine. Can you give me the specs of the machine you are
> testing please (memory - cpu - cdrom speed).

Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2048MB RAM
SONY CD-RW  CRX320E: 52X max CD-R write, 52X max CD read, 16X max DVD read,
32X CD-RW write. 2MB buffer memory.

Note that out of these 5 minutes or so, the timeout for bringing up eth0 takes
alone about 40-50s  (the connection is made via a serial modem).

> Are you sure of this. Try to save to /home/doyen/Desktop and let me
> know. Maybe there is a bug.

Yes, it does not save to /home/doyen  but it does save to /home/doyen/Desktop.

Regards, Alejandro





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Hi Alejandro,

Thanks for the feedback.

> Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs)
> Memory: 2048MB RAM
> SONY CD-RW  CRX320E: 52X max CD-R write, 52X max CD read, 16X max DVD read,
> 32X CD-RW write. 2MB buffer memory.
> Note that out of these 5 minutes or so, the timeout for bringing up eth0 takes
> alone about 40-50s  (the connection is made via a serial modem).
>

My machine is very similar
Xeon 2.6 (2 CPUs)
Memory: 2GB
DVD: 32 X

The time to boot was 2:20. (Of course I did not have a problem like
you with the network). Surely the boot process must be improved. I
will look into this. One thing is that the virtual machine is giving
me a better performance :-).

> > Are you sure of this. Try to save to /home/doyen/Desktop and let me
> > know. Maybe there is a bug.

> Yes, it does not save to /home/doyen  but it does save to /home/doyen/Desktop.

I see said the blind the man :-). Consider this fixed.

Regards,

Alfredo



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| >   (2) please, please, document behaviour in the pamphlets; not just
| >       the code.
| 
| What do you mean by "document behaviour in the pamphlets"?  Do you think
| that I should split changes into chunks and annotate them separately?
| I would oppose that: current structure is mostly seqential and IMHO
| very readible, chopping it would make it less readible.

Even though *currrent* pamphlets are sequential, that is not supposed
to last.  We should strive to improve the system toward *human*
understanding as opposed to linear organizations suitable to the
language.

| Do you think that changes I made need more comments?

Yes.



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| >   (2) please, please, document behaviour in the pamphlets; not just
| >       the code.
| 
| can i get a witness! amen, amen! stand and sing, all who enter! :-0
| (couldn't resist :-) )

I would have made exactly the same request, was it a change for
GCC -- which isn't "literate" in the sense you understand it.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] database fixes
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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

| On Monday, October 16, 2006 8:47 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
| > ...
| > 1) ATM I can not add much value to what is already there --
| >    I can read the code but the classic rule of documentation is
| >    "documentation should not repeat the code"...
| 
| Actually this classic rule of documentation is *not* appropriate
| to literate programming.

I agree that documentation should not repeat the code, but I was not
expecting Waldek to repeat the code.  Rather, I was expecting him to
explain *why* he is making the change, not *what* the code is doing.

More generally, I've found that much of the Axiom documentation says
_what_ the code is doing, by *why* it is doing it.

I believe Waldek proposed changes should contain *why*, not _what_.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] database fixes
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:


[...]

| To clean old data we loop over all symbols from [[boot]] package
| and reset [[boot::database]] property to [[nil]].  We also rest
| [boot::*allconstructors*]] to [[nil]].

I'm asking you to include an explanation of *why* that is essential;
what is the goal; not what the code is doing (that I can read it).

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > > On Monday, October 16, 2006 8:47 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
| > > > ...
| > > > 1) ATM I can not add much value to what is already there --
| > > >    I can read the code but the classic rule of documentation is
| > > >    "documentation should not repeat the code"...
| > > 
| > > Actually this classic rule of documentation is *not* appropriate
| > > to literate programming. In a literate program the document contains
| > > the code so it certainly "repeats the code" in that sense. The code
| > > illustrates and implements the ideas described in the document. Code
| > > and documentation are not two separate things.
| > >
| > 
| > .....[snip].....
| > 
| > is better (I admit that as a reader I find the first version much
| > better).
| 
| i think that we need actual sentences to describe what the code does.
| we also need paragraphs that explain the big picture of what the file
| is trying to do.

What the documentation perspective, it is far more important to
explain the goal, what the file is trying to do and whay it is doing
it.  

Comment saying "I'm assigng the value of y in the location x" in front of

   x := y

is contentless and irritating.

| axiom has tons of "dirt simple, obvious code". i know because i always
| try to write the easiest, most straightforward code i can. now, 15 years
| later, i cannot remember WHY i wrote the code.


yes, *why* is the main important thing.

-- Gaby

[...]

| it's all 'one thing', not code+documentation.
| think of latex as a compiler stage.
| always latex the sources, always compile and run the sources.
| 
| (gaby and bill disagree with me)

As I'm sure you know; the issue there is really different, and should
not be conflated with this one.

-- Gaby



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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

| On Tuesday, October 17, 2006 12:09 AM Tim Daly wrote:
| 
| > ...
| >
| > Waldek Hebisch wrote
| > > 
| > > The patch I wrote changed the paphlet file.  I admit that I did
| > > not use dvi viewer to check formatting, but since the parts I
| > > changed follow textual format using only text terminal should be
| > > OK.  
| > 
| > ummm, well, the pamphlet file IS the source code. if you changed
| > the lisp code would you post a change without trying it? if you
| > changed the latex would you post a change without trying it?
| > 
| > it's all 'one thing', not code+documentation.
| > think of latex as a compiler stage.
| > always latex the sources, always compile and run the sources.
| > 
| > (gaby and bill disagree with me)
| > 
| 
| Actually I don't think we disagree. At least I do agree that
| running latex on the noweave output from a modified pamphlet file
| is an essential step in creating a literate program.

Indeed.

-- Gaby



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> Processor: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 3.00GHz (2 CPUs)
> Memory: 2048MB RAM
> SONY CD-RW  CRX320E: 52X max CD-R write, 52X max CD read, 16X max DVD read,
> 32X CD-RW write. 2MB buffer memory.

ooooo, nice toy.... package it up and send it so we can debug the problem. :-)

t



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References: <CAE9B164E720CE4D8727792DF8F28AE38EAADE@corporateex02.Corporate.drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

[...]

| Actually I agree. Your original patch was not so bad - it is
| just that it did not add any explanation to the document itself.
| It improved the program but did not improve the document.

You very well capture the essence of my original remarks.

[...]

| In any case, I do very much appreciate your work on this problem
| and your willingness to contribute it to the Axiom source code
| repositories. Thank you very much! :-)

Indeed.  More Waldeks would be appreciated for Axiom.

-- Gaby



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root writes: 

> Axiom will build properly on gcl-2.6.7
> You just have to set the GCLVERSION variable and fetch the 
> gcl-2.6.7.tgz from the archive and put it in the zips directory. 
> 
> t

Hi, 

I used the gcl-system approach with success. 

Gernot 





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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Not building on Kubuntu
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Dear all,

the maths department just switched to kubuntu. Although axiom is included, I'd
like to have the possibility to compile it myself. Well, it doesn't work.


First Problem:
===================================================
You must set your AXIOM and PATH variables. Type:

To build the rest of the system type:

export AXIOM=/users/rubey/GoldenAxiom/mnt/linux
export PATH=$AXIOM/bin:$PATH
make AWK=/usr/bin/nawk

configure finished.
rubey@aquin:~/GoldenAxiom$ export AXIOM=/users/rubey/GoldenAxiom/mnt/linux
rubey@aquin:~/GoldenAxiom$ export PATH=$AXIOM/bin:$PATH
rubey@aquin:~/GoldenAxiom$ make AWK=/usr/bin/nawk
13 making noweb
patching file modules.c
patching file Makefile
sed: -e Ausdruck #1, Zeichen 11: unknown option to `s'
awkname: failed to change lib/emptydefn
sed: -e Ausdruck #1, Zeichen 11: unknown option to `s'
awkname: failed to change lib/unmarkup
sed: -e Ausdruck #1, Zeichen 11: unknown option to `s'
awkname: failed to change lib/toascii
sed: -e Ausdruck #1, Zeichen 11: unknown option to `s'
awkname: failed to change lib/btdefn
sed: -e Ausdruck #1, Zeichen 11: unknown option to `s'
awkname: failed to change awk/noidx
sed: -e Ausdruck #1, Zeichen 11: unknown option to `s'
awkname: failed to change awk/totex
sed: -e Ausdruck #1, Zeichen 11: unknown option to `s'
awkname: failed to change awk/tohtml
sed: -e Ausdruck #1, Zeichen 11: unknown option to `s'
awkname: failed to change awk/noindex
sed: -e Ausdruck #1, Zeichen 11: unknown option to `s'
awkname: failed to change shell/nocount
sed: -e Ausdruck #1, Zeichen 11: unknown option to `s'
awkname: failed to change shell/nountangle
sed: -e Ausdruck #1, Zeichen 11: unknown option to `s'
awkname: failed to change shell/noweb
sed: -e Ausdruck #1, Zeichen 11: unknown option to `s'
awkname: failed to change shell/noroots

If I then go on - I changed totex by hand to use nawk instead of gawk, build
fails when building the algebra. It says it cannot find a rule to make

mypath/GoldenAxiom/int/algebra/ABELGRP.o

although the rule

${MID}/%.o: ${MID}/%.lsp 
           blablabla

clearly is present.

I'm quite desperate.

Martin

versions:

make -v
GNU Make 3.81beta4

nawk -W version
mawk 1.3.3 Nov 1996, Copyright (C) Michael D. Brennan




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 > Let us look at an example.  I wrote:
 >
 > ------------<start example>------------
 > ....
 >    ; Clean old data
 >    (do-symbols (symbol)
 >       (when (get symbol 'database)
 >          (setf (get symbol 'database) nil)))
 >    (setq *allconstructors* nil)
 > ...
 > ------------<end example>------------
 >
 > Do you think that:
 >
 > ------------<start example>------------
 > ...
 >    <<Clean old data>>
 >
 > ....
 > ....
 >
 > To clean old data we loop over all symbols from [[boot]] package
 > and reset [[boot::database]] property to [[nil]].  We also rest
 > [boot::*allconstructors*]] to [[nil]].
 > <<Clean old data>>=
 >    (do-symbols (symbol)
 >       (when (get symbol 'database)
 >          (setf (get symbol 'database) nil)))
 >    (setq *allconstructors* nil)
 > ------------<end example>------------

I think it has been explained enough that the *why* it important...

I just want to remark that one can do quite remarkable things with 
noweb. Recently I wrote piece of code like that...

<<implementation: Compose>>=
structures(s: SetSpecies L): Generator % == generate {
   for pi in structures(s) $ SetPartition(L) repeat {
     <<Yield elements of $F[\pi]\times\prod_{p\in\pi} {G[p]}$>>
   }
}
@

Of course there is the definition of F\circ G around that code chunk, 
but, it is nice that one can put (repeat) a part of that definition in 
the name of the code chunk. That very much helps to recognise the 
relation between code and corresponding mathematics.

Ralf



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On Monday 16 October 2006 20:05, Alejandro Jakubi wrote:
> Tim, Alfredo, CY

> > One doesn't always want to achieve that.  The first question to be asked
> > should be "is this new behavior wrong, or was the old behavior wrong?" 
> > (In more subtle cases - obviously a crash is wrong.)  It is possible the
> > 2006 result was wrong.  That's actually an objection I have heard in the
> > past to
>
> Correction is one issue and reproducibility is another one.

Fair enough.

> By the way, one of my interests in looking at different CAS is checking
> results in for errors...
>
> But the need of reproducibility is basic in science and the publication of
> scientific results needs dating to set the record. By merging papers and
> code, the need of reproducibility of code results is made explicit. There
> are many possible sources of errors in a paper, and errors arising in bugs
> of the CAS that could have been used for calculations is just one of them.
> Whatever happens after publication, eg whether the bug is detected and
> patched, the calculations are made again, a corrected version of the paper
> is published, etc, is a different issue. Anybody should be able to able to
> reproduce a given result as it was published, right or wrong.

That's not possible in general - if nothing else, the hardware platforms on 
which software is run will not remain static.  A result turned out on a PDP-8 
might or might not be reproducible today - doing so reliably would take too 
much time and effort by way of either finding a working PDP-8 or building 
one.  Emulators might work but introduce more correctness questions.

That's why I think software needs to have formal statements of what is 
required from the underlying support systems, and the ability to test that 
those systems do in fact provide that.  Give sufficient testing, it should be 
workable to have a running system virtually indefinitely.  (In a sense that's 
what porting is, but rather than "does it run" the test could be "does 
EVERYTHING work" which is better for confidence.)  Lisp helps in this by 
being virtually a "self contained" environment, and in gcl Paul Dietz's 
extensive ANSI test suite can be found. That provides a good benchmark for 
whether a lisp is performing as advertised.

I understand what you are saying, but the nature of computers makes what you 
are asking for very difficult.  The best we can hope to do is make computers 
like (say) different X-ray diffraction setups - a result should be 
reproducible from one model to another, and if something is not reproducible 
step 1 is to suspect the setup of the experiment, 2 the equipment, and 3 the 
result against which you are comparing your result.  Being able to reproduce 
incorrect results is NOT possible in general, either in computers or 
elsewhere.

> As I observe in Maple, along the late 12 years, there has been changes of
> the most diverse nature in this system. They include, patched or obsoleted
> libraries, changes in the language and in the format of the worksheet. Just
> observe that several of the Maple entries in the Rosetta document are
> currently (ie for Maple 10) obsolete. In cases that syntax is no longer
> working. And it is just a few years since it was written!

Right.  I view this as a problem with how software is designed.  Rather 
than "the best of all possible programs" we tend to shoot for "something that 
works."  Experience is always the best teacher, so we learn from our 
mistakes.  The benefit of open source is that those old versions are still 
available, and in theory they can be made to run.  If you NEED to make it run 
to check an inconsistency between an old and new system then there is a 
problem (that shouldn't have to happen) but at least in theory it can be done 
(with a bit of effort.)  Commercial software does not allow this possibility.  
No one, open source or closed, will maintain an old version with known 
problems indefinitely just for the sake of being able to reproduce an 
incorrect result - it is not a good use of limited time.  The correct way is 
to identify if the old result or the new is correct, and if so why.  Yet 
another reason I like the idea of automatically generating formal proofs.  
But if you REALLY need to reproduce the old result you can (in theory and in 
open source) put in the work to make it happen.

> CAS, when successful, are long term projects. This means that different
> generations of developers would work along the time, each one with its own
> preferences. What is better, whether a development following rigid rules or
> accommodating to circumstances, seems to be a matter of taste. The later
> model can be easily observed in Maple that seems as an accumulation of
> "geological strata" with commands working in very different ways, depending
> on its era of development.

To me the logical solution to that problem (insofar as it CAN be solved) is to 
make working with the CAS as much as possible like working with the 
mathematics itself.  Sticking close to the mathematics should provide 
an "oracle" for what the right way to do things is.  Of course this will only 
work up until a point, but you could compare it to the body of literature - 
you will probably notice strata of paper writing styles over the decades and 
centuries too.

> Most open source projects are rather new. It will be interesting to see
> whether they endure decades and how do they evolve. In particular whether a
> Axiom 2036 will handle correctly the a document written with the syntax of
> Axiom 2006.

Unlikely.  I would not regard Axiom 2006 as anything like a stable product.  
There is a great deal of change that we KNOW has to take place, and that 
removes any realistic claim we might have to being stable in my book.  Maxima 
versions are also technically development versions.  We have no formal 
language definition for SPAD, and Maxima has no formal language definition 
for it's language - expecting reproducibility is not realistic in such 
conditions.  It will probably be CLOSE in many cases (Axiom and Maxima do get 
many things right, or they wouldn't exist in the first place) but a guarantee 
is something else entirely.

> The evolution of the TeX system up to now, where almost any document
> written in the past can be processed today as it was at its time, gives
> hope that this example could be followed.

TeX was and is an unusual case - almost all of its core logic was finished 
before it became a major player.  LaTeX is a more realistic representation, 
and older LaTeX documents can occasionally present problems in my experience.  
TeX took a very long time to develop, but in the end it was finished.  Most 
software is not finished or even close.

I would like Axiom to be finished in terms of everything except its 
mathematical abilities (just as TeX is finished except in terms of addons 
like LaTeX and other convenience packages) but we aren't close yet.  That 
level of polish almost never happens in software development.  TeX is famous 
for a reason!

> > general problem.  Why shouldn't it be possible to do all of this work
> > inside one larger, robust, and powerful framework?  Then each new
> > algorithm and tool would be immediately available for use in any new
> > work.
>
> Agreed. The utopia of the universal system is very nice!

Very practical too in that it would end the duplication of effort that must go 
into maintaining different systems.  Who wants to see all those researchers 
out there handling the mundane, boring tasks of build systems, packaging, 
designing basic support environments and libraries for their calculations?  
They should be doing what only they can do, not project management! 
Ultimately this is all mathematics and we shouldn't be having to re-invent so 
many wheels.

Of course I have the same feeling with graphical toolkits, and look where we 
stand there :-(.

That's why it's important to study existing systems - how they do things and 
more importantly why they do them that way.

> > Axiom's design gives me hope for this goal - it appears to be designed
> > generally enough that it can scale.  But there are many years of work
> > ahead to make it a well documented and robust system.
>
> But note. The usefulness of a system may depend on factors rather
> independent of the quality of design. For instance the size and diversity
> of its community of users. Quite frequently I have found that the Maple
> package that makes the job was contributed by a user...

Yes, that's true.  The only solution I can think of is to incorporate as many 
useful/important ideas as possible from those communities into a system that 
offers something so compelling it wouldn't be reasonable to ignore it.  (Say, 
formal verification of the entire system and being able to have a full 
axiomatic proof of a result generated for you.)

Right now, everybody builds in swamps because that's all there is.  As you 
illustrated with your changing Maple versions, the ground can shift all over 
the place.  Axiom should strive to be solid ground - a platform so compelling 
that the cost of NOT investigating and using it is too high to tolerate.  It 
has a good start, but won't be there for many years.  Eventually I think it 
could and should become the TeX of computer algebra.

Cheers,
CY



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try make AWK=awk

t



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Le lundi 16 octobre 2006 =E0 18:05 +0200, Gabriel Dos Reis a =E9crit :=20
> root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
>=20
> | > (1) it leads to wrong behaviour; this is factual.
> |=20
> | But Axiom's been like this for years.
>=20
> It does not mean it was correct :-)
>=20
> | What is wrong about the behavior?
>=20
> I explained the behaviour that you can reproduce.  Try it with depsys,
> bootsys.
>=20
> | > (1) all the settings of that variable I've audited do not seem to a=
gree on
> | >     on a single value.  Consequently, it is wrong on semantics
> | >     consideration. (Yes, I appreciate the settings are conditional)=
.
> |=20
> | What do you believe is the correct setting? And why?
>=20
> (1) Setting the variable leads to the wrong behaviour I described earli=
er.
> (2) Then, I went to grep for that variable.  The output is that it is
>     not set to any coherent value.
> (3) commenting its setting leads to a coherent behaviour.


Some other information/manifestations (axiom and not depsys):

This is a Debian version
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.6 CLtL1    Jan 20 2005 00:03:46
[...]
                        AXIOM Computer Algebra System=20
                   Version: Axiom 3.0 Beta (February 2005)
                Timestamp: Monday March 21, 2005 at 01:36:09=20
[...]
(1) -> )lis $current-directory
(1) ->=20
Value =3D "/home/greg/"
(1) -> )cd Axiom
   The current AXIOM default directory is /home/greg/Axiom/
--------------------------------------------------------------

Axiom patch-50  (gcl-2.6.8pre2):
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
                        AXIOM Computer Algebra System=20
                       Version: Axiom (September 2006)
              Timestamp: Saturday October 14, 2006 at 05:38:35=20
[...]
(1) -> )lis $current-directory

Value =3D "/usr/local/axiom/mnt/linux/NIL/"
(1) -> -- used by the )cd system command
(1) -> )lis (trace interp-make-directory)

Value =3D (INTERP-MAKE-DIRECTORY)
(1) -> )cd Axiom

  1> (INTERP-MAKE-DIRECTORY |Axiom|)
  <1 (INTERP-MAKE-DIRECTORY "/usr/local/axiom/mnt/linux/NIL/Axiom/")

   >> System error:
   Can't change the current directory to
"/usr/local/axiom/mnt/linux/NIL/".

(1) -> )cd =20
   The current AXIOM default directory is /home/greg/=20
(1) -> )lis $current-directory

Value =3D "/home/greg/"
(1) -> )cd Axiom

  1> (INTERP-MAKE-DIRECTORY |Axiom|)
  <1 (INTERP-MAKE-DIRECTORY "/home/greg/Axiom/")
  1> (INTERP-MAKE-DIRECTORY |Axiom|)
  <1 (INTERP-MAKE-DIRECTORY "/home/greg/Axiom/")
   The current AXIOM default directory is /home/greg/Axiom/
-----------------------------------------------------------

Greg




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Hello,

It seems that this mail was forgotten. It's a typo in the code
(bookvol5) so a real bug.=20

-------- Message transf=E9r=E9 --------
De: Vanuxem Gr=E9gory <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr>
=C0: Axiom-Developer <axiom-developer@nongnu.org>
Sujet: Typo in bookvol5 : clearCmdparts
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 19:29:28 +0200

Hello,


@@ -4333,7 +4332,7 @@
                  (spadlet plist (getalist (caar fenv) v))
                  (cond
                   (plist=20
-                   (|clearCmdparts| (cons '|propert| (cons v nil)))
+                   (|clearCmdParts| (cons '|propert| (cons v nil)))


To trigger this error start AXIOMsys and issue the following commands:

-- beware there is another bug
-- you can not import an "empty" frame
-- (always the same question
-- "do you really want to import everything...")
-- so you need to add something to the history
-- (here a:=3D1/2)
a:=3D1/2
)frame new test
)frame import initial

 >> System error:
  |clearCmdparts| is invalid as a function.


Greg




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hmmm, looks like gcl breakage somehow. checking --t



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CY

> That's not possible in general - if nothing else, the hardware platforms on
> which software is run will not remain static.  A result turned out on a PDP-8

Certainly, bitwise reproducibility does not seem realistic.

But for the purposes of scientific documentation, a weaker form, the
reproducibility of results or black box reproducibility say (same input, same
output) is enough, but required.

The old system works that way. Undoubtly, the minds of the author(s) of a
paper/book worked differently than mine. However, the nature of the human mind
and the academic training allows me to reproduce the hand calculations he/she/they
made in the past. And eventually identify wrong path of thinking in case of
errors.

By the way, correcting exams is a good training in realizing wrong ways of
making calculations!

Could it be that this reproducibility of results requires, besides a suite of
formal proofs, some sort of artificial inteligence?

Anyway, my point is: if papers will be archived with its code, but after some
years that code will not run, or give results diferent to those stated in the
paper, it will not make much sense to archive papers with code for long.

To the contrary, the success of initiatives like ArXiV for archiving text and
figures is based on the stability of TeX and PostScript.


Regards, Alejandro






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Hi,

  I have been experimenting with compiling src/interp with New Boot.
Among many things, there is the nit that "of" is a keyword in New Boot
(src/Makefile.pamphlet does not document that).  Consequently, the
definition of the function str2Tex g-util.boot has to be modified not
to use "of".

-- Gaby

*** src/interp/ChangeLog.build-improvements	(revision 15890)
--- src/interp/ChangeLog.build-improvements	(local)
***************
*** 1,3 ****
--- 1,8 ----
+ 2006-10-16  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>
+ 
+ 	* g-util.boot.pamphlet (str2Tex): Change local variable name "of"
+ 	to "outf".
+ 
  2006-10-12  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>
  
  	* Makefile.pamphlet (depsys_lisp_noncompiled_sources, 
*** src/interp/g-util.boot.pamphlet	(revision 15890)
--- src/interp/g-util.boot.pamphlet	(local)
*************** parse2Outform x ==
*** 427,434 ****
    x
  
  str2Tex s ==
!   of := str2Outform s
!   val := coerceInt(mkObj(wrap of, '(OutputForm)), '(TexFormat))
    val := objValUnwrap val
    CAR val.1
  
--- 427,434 ----
    x
  
  str2Tex s ==
!   outf := str2Outform s
!   val := coerceInt(mkObj(wrap outf, '(OutputForm)), '(TexFormat))
    val := objValUnwrap val
    CAR val.1
  
*************** isDefaultPackageName x == (s := PNAME x)
*** 1153,1166 ****
  
  (DEFUN |parse2Outform| (|x|) (PROG (|op| |argl| |nargl| |ISTMP#1| BRACKET |r|) (RETURN (SEQ (COND ((AND (PAIRP |x|) (PROGN (SPADLET |op| (QCAR |x|)) (SPADLET |argl| (QCDR |x|)) (QUOTE T))) (SPADLET |nargl| (PROG (#0=#:G2887) (SPADLET #0# NIL) (RETURN (DO ((#1=#:G2892 |argl| (CDR #1#)) (|y| NIL)) ((OR (ATOM #1#) (PROGN (SETQ |y| (CAR #1#)) NIL)) (NREVERSE0 #0#)) (SEQ (EXIT (SETQ #0# (CONS (|parse2Outform| |y|) #0#)))))))) (COND ((BOOT-EQUAL |op| (QUOTE |construct|)) (CONS (QUOTE BRACKET) (CONS (CONS (QUOTE ARGLST) (PROG (#2=#:G2902) (SPADLET #2# NIL) (RETURN (DO ((#3=#:G2907 |argl| (CDR #3#)) (|y| NIL)) ((OR (ATOM #3#) (PROGN (SETQ |y| (CAR #3#)) NIL)) (NREVERSE0 #2#)) (SEQ (EXIT (SETQ #2# (CONS (|parse2Outform| |y|) #2#)))))))) NIL))) ((AND (BOOT-EQUAL |op| (QUOTE |brace|)) (PAIRP |nargl|) (EQ (QCDR |nargl|) NIL) (PROGN (SPADLET |ISTMP#1| (QCAR |nargl|)) (AND (PAIRP |ISTMP#1|) (PROGN (SPADLET BRACKET (QCAR |ISTMP#1|)) (SPADLET |r| (QCDR |ISTMP#1|)) (QUOTE T))))) (CONS (QUOT
 E BRACE) |r|)) ((QUOTE T) (CONS |op| |nargl|)))) ((QUOTE T) |x|)))))) 
  ;str2Tex s ==
! ;  of := str2Outform s
! ;  val := coerceInt(mkObj(wrap of, '(OutputForm)), '(TexFormat))
  ;  val := objValUnwrap val
  ;  CAR val.1
  
  ;;;     ***       |str2Tex| REDEFINED
  
! (DEFUN |str2Tex| (|s|) (PROG (|of| |val|) (RETURN (PROGN (SPADLET |of| (|str2Outform| |s|)) (SPADLET |val| (|coerceInt| (|mkObj| (|wrap| |of|) (QUOTE (|OutputForm|))) (QUOTE (|TexFormat|)))) (SPADLET |val| (|objValUnwrap| |val|)) (CAR (ELT |val| 1)))))) 
  ;opOf x ==
  ;  atom x => x
  ;  first x
--- 1153,1166 ----
  
  (DEFUN |parse2Outform| (|x|) (PROG (|op| |argl| |nargl| |ISTMP#1| BRACKET |r|) (RETURN (SEQ (COND ((AND (PAIRP |x|) (PROGN (SPADLET |op| (QCAR |x|)) (SPADLET |argl| (QCDR |x|)) (QUOTE T))) (SPADLET |nargl| (PROG (#0=#:G2887) (SPADLET #0# NIL) (RETURN (DO ((#1=#:G2892 |argl| (CDR #1#)) (|y| NIL)) ((OR (ATOM #1#) (PROGN (SETQ |y| (CAR #1#)) NIL)) (NREVERSE0 #0#)) (SEQ (EXIT (SETQ #0# (CONS (|parse2Outform| |y|) #0#)))))))) (COND ((BOOT-EQUAL |op| (QUOTE |construct|)) (CONS (QUOTE BRACKET) (CONS (CONS (QUOTE ARGLST) (PROG (#2=#:G2902) (SPADLET #2# NIL) (RETURN (DO ((#3=#:G2907 |argl| (CDR #3#)) (|y| NIL)) ((OR (ATOM #3#) (PROGN (SETQ |y| (CAR #3#)) NIL)) (NREVERSE0 #2#)) (SEQ (EXIT (SETQ #2# (CONS (|parse2Outform| |y|) #2#)))))))) NIL))) ((AND (BOOT-EQUAL |op| (QUOTE |brace|)) (PAIRP |nargl|) (EQ (QCDR |nargl|) NIL) (PROGN (SPADLET |ISTMP#1| (QCAR |nargl|)) (AND (PAIRP |ISTMP#1|) (PROGN (SPADLET BRACKET (QCAR |ISTMP#1|)) (SPADLET |r| (QCDR |ISTMP#1|)) (QUOTE T))))) (CONS (QUOT
 E BRACE) |r|)) ((QUOTE T) (CONS |op| |nargl|)))) ((QUOTE T) |x|)))))) 
  ;str2Tex s ==
! ;  outf := str2Outform s
! ;  val := coerceInt(mkObj(wrap outf, '(OutputForm)), '(TexFormat))
  ;  val := objValUnwrap val
  ;  CAR val.1
  
  ;;;     ***       |str2Tex| REDEFINED
  
! (DEFUN |str2Tex| (|s|) (PROG (|outf| |val|) (RETURN (PROGN (SPADLET |outf| (|str2Outform| |s|)) (SPADLET |val| (|coerceInt| (|mkObj| (|wrap| |outf|) (QUOTE (|OutputForm|))) (QUOTE (|TexFormat|)))) (SPADLET |val| (|objValUnwrap| |val|)) (CAR (ELT |val| 1)))))) 
  ;opOf x ==
  ;  atom x => x
  ;  first x




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	if not already there
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integrate(%e^cos(x)*cos(x-sin(x)),x = 0..2*%pi)

Apparently this can be solved by Mathematica in it's upcoming version. 
We currently get "failed."

Cheers,
CY

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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] new boot and old boot
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--- Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@cs.tamu.edu> wrote:

> 
> Hi,
> 
>   I have been experimenting with compiling src/interp with New Boot.
> Among many things, there is the nit that "of" is a keyword in New
> Boot (src/Makefile.pamphlet does not document that).  Consequently,
> the definition of the function str2Tex g-util.boot has to be modified
> not to use "of".

Interesting!  That would certainly make getting ANSI working simpler -
only one Boot->Lisp translation to clean up.  If the SPAD compiler is
itself written in Boot, that might solve both problems (doubt it, but
maybe...)  I had the boottocl in the src/boot directory running in sbcl
at one point, but I never did figure out if it was working correctly. 
I doubt it was generating loadable lisp :-(

You're doing some really exciting work Gaby - thank you!

Cheers,
CY

Cheers,
CY

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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] new boot and old boot
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C Y <smustudent1@yahoo.com> writes:

| --- Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@cs.tamu.edu> wrote:
| 
| > 
| > Hi,
| > 
| >   I have been experimenting with compiling src/interp with New Boot.
| > Among many things, there is the nit that "of" is a keyword in New
| > Boot (src/Makefile.pamphlet does not document that).  Consequently,
| > the definition of the function str2Tex g-util.boot has to be modified
| > not to use "of".
| 
| Interesting!  That would certainly make getting ANSI working simpler -
| only one Boot->Lisp translation to clean up.  If the SPAD compiler is
| itself written in Boot, that might solve both problems (doubt it, but
| maybe...)  I had the boottocl in the src/boot directory running in sbcl
| at one point, but I never did figure out if it was working correctly. 
| I doubt it was generating loadable lisp :-(

My plan is to move to a state where we use boottocl from src/boot.
I've not done much this week, because of more pressing things here to
deal with.  I'll post more questions, and no doubt we will have more
discussions :-)

-- Gaby



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] Not building on Kubuntu
Date: Tue, 17 Oct 2006 21:27:12 -0400
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Thread-Topic: [Axiom-developer] Not building on Kubuntu
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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
To: "Martin Rubey" <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at>
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Martin,

On October 17, 2006 4:37 AM you wrote:
>=20
> the maths department just switched to kubuntu. Although axiom=20
> is included, I'd like to have the possibility to compile it
> myself. Well, it doesn't work.
> ...=20

Kubuntu is part of the Ubuntu project which is closely related
to Debian, so for compiling Axiom I think the simplist way to
compile Axiom might be from the Debian distribution of Axiom
via 'apt-get source axiom*' and 'apt-get build-dep axiom*'.
build-dep will install all of the build dependencies for Axiom.

In fact, if you can just 'apt-get install' gcl and noweb, then
you might also have more success building Axiom from the new
build-improvements branch then from the olden golden version,
since it can build Axiom in a similar way as on Debian.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Doyen
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Hi Tim,

I think we should remove, update, or link to the Fedora livecd the
http://daly.axiom-developer.org/doyen/doyen04262005.iso image.

What do you think?



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From: "William Sit" <wyscc@sci.ccny.cuny.edu>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] One more integral to add to the tests,
	if not already there
To: C Y <smustudent1@yahoo.com>,axiom-developer@nongnu.org
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On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:18:37 -0700 (PDT)
  C Y <smustudent1@yahoo.com> wrote:
>integrate(%e^cos(x)*cos(x-sin(x)),x = 0..2*%pi)
>
>Apparently this can be solved by Mathematica in it's 
>upcoming version. 
>We currently get "failed."
>
>Cheers,
>CY

Apparently, Mathematica got this wrong in Version 5.2:
In[1]:=
Integrate[Exp[Cos[x]] Cos[x-Sin[x]], {x,0,2 Pi}]

Out[1]=
0

But a look at the graph of the integrand shows this is 
clearly wrong. Indeed,
In[3]:=
NIntegrate[Exp[Cos[x]] Cos[x-Sin[x]], {x,0,2 Pi}]

Out[3]=
6.28319

which looks like the exact answer is 2 Pi.

William



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Thread-Topic: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
To: "Camm Maguire" <camm@enhanced.com>
Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org, gcl-devel@gnu.org
Subject: [Axiom-developer] gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Camm,

I have succeeded in compiling gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2 on the
SourceForge compile farm 'ppc-osx3' server, however some patches
were necessary. This machine has Xcode installed by not Fink.

First, I checked out gcl-2.6.8pre from cvs on October 15, 2006,
created a tarball and scp'd it and the standard gnu gettext-0.15
and sed-4.1.4 tarballs to my home directory on SourceForge.

Next I compiled and installed gettext and sed with
  --prefix=3D/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx
creating the ~/osx/bin and ~/osx/lib directories. These are
apparently required to satisfy the gcl build dependencies on
OSX 10.2. (Note: A Fink installation might also have provided
these in the /sw directory.)

Then I added:

  export PATH=3D/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin:$PATH
  export LIBRARY_PATH=3D/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib:$LIBRARY_PATH
  export CPPFLAGS=3D"-no-cpp-precomp"
  cd osx

to ~/.profile so that after re-login the environment was set
appropriately.

I untarred gcl into the osx directory creating ~/osx/gcl-2.6.8pre
Then I applied the following patches (most of which have been
previously reported on the gcl email list by other people):

------------------------
ppc-osx3:~/osx billpage$ diff -Naur old/gcl* new/gcl*

This patch required so libintl is found in $LIBRARY_PATH.

diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs
new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs
--- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Thu Jul 15 09:28:43 2004
+++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Sun Oct 15 22:07:45 2006
@@ -6,7 +6,7 @@

 # Set this to avoid warnings when linking against libncurses.
 # This is due to the requirements of the two level namespace.
-LIBS :=3D `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'` =
/sw/lib/libintl.dylib
+LIBS :=3D `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'` -lintl

 # Set this for the linker to operate correctly.
 MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET =3D 10.2
@@ -32,4 +32,4 @@
 # This appears to be no longer necessary on Panther.
 ARRS =3D libtool -static -o

-FINAL_CFLAGS :=3D `echo $(FINAL_CFLAGS) | sed -e 's:-g::g'`
\ No newline at end of file
+FINAL_CFLAGS :=3D `echo $(FINAL_CFLAGS) | sed -e 's:-g::g'`

This patch is required to define sbrk.

diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h
new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h
--- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h Thu Dec  8 17:31:25 2005
+++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h Sun Oct 15 21:32:23 2006
@@ -38,8 +38,9 @@
 #undef SET_REAL_MAXPAGE
 #define SET_REAL_MAXPAGE { my_sbrk(0); real_maxpage =3D (int)
mach_maplimit/PAGESIZE; }

-#define sbrk my_sbrk
+#include <unistd.h> /* to get sbrk defined */
 extern void *my_sbrk(int incr);
+#define sbrk my_sbrk


 /** (si::save-system "...") a.k.a. unexec implementation  */

This patch is required to remove functions symbols from plt.

diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile
--- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile Fri Sep 15 10:45:18 2006
+++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile Mon Oct 16 22:03:52 2006
@@ -154,7 +154,7 @@
                             print a}' \
                        k=3D$(LEADING_UNDERSCORE) |\
                        sort | \
-                       grep -v '[^ \t_]_' |\
+                       grep -v 'restFP' | grep -v 'saveFP' | grep -v
'[^ \t_]_' |\
                        $(AWK) '{A[++k]=3D$$0} END {for =
(i=3D1;i<=3Dk;i++) \
                                printf("MY_PLT(%s)%s\n",A[i],i=3D=3Dk ? =
"" :
",");}' >$@

This patch is required to find malloc.h on some OSX machines.

diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c
new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c
--- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c     Thu Dec 15 10:48:43 2005
+++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c     Tue Oct 17 18:55:04 2006
@@ -124,7 +124,13 @@
 #endif
 #include <mach-o/nlist.h>
 #include <mach-o/getsect.h>
+/* not <sys/malloc.h> */
+/* not <malloc.h> */
+#if defined (HAVE_MALLOC_MALLOC_H)
 #include <malloc/malloc.h>
+#else
+#include <objc/malloc.h>
+#endif

 #include <sys/mman.h>

ppc-osx3:~/osx billpage$

------------------------

Finally I built gcl with the following commands:

  ./configure --prefix=3D/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx \
     --disable-tkconfig  --disable-statsysbfd --enable-locbfd
  make
  make install

---------

The resulting gcl binary (unixport/saved_gcl) in available here:

  http://page.axiom-developer.org/gcl-2.6.8-osx10-20061017.bin

I would be very happy if anyone with a MAC OSX machine would try
this version of gcl on their systems and let me know of any
problems.

I am currently working on completing the Axiom build based on the
new build-improvements branch.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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To: <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Not building on Kubuntu
References: <CAE9B164E720CE4D8727792DF8F28AE38EAC5E@corporateex02.Corporate.drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
From: Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at>
Date: 18 Oct 2006 08:06:13 +0200
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Dear Bill, Tim,

"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

> Martin,
> 
> On October 17, 2006 4:37 AM you wrote:
> > 
> > the maths department just switched to kubuntu. Although axiom 
> > is included, I'd like to have the possibility to compile it
> > myself. Well, it doesn't work.
> > ... 
> 
> Kubuntu is part of the Ubuntu project which is closely related
> to Debian, so for compiling Axiom I think the simplist way to
> compile Axiom might be from the Debian distribution of Axiom
> via 'apt-get source axiom*' and 'apt-get build-dep axiom*'.
> build-dep will install all of the build dependencies for Axiom.
> 
> In fact, if you can just 'apt-get install' gcl and noweb, then
> you might also have more success building Axiom from the new
> build-improvements branch then from the olden golden version,
> since it can build Axiom in a similar way as on Debian.
 
Yes, but not without being root. This is the main drawback of debian, it seems.

However, I realized just after posting that my problem is known as issue
#131. I thought that a fix was already applied, but apparently it did not
happen. For the moment I'll simply generate the Makefile on my own computer,
which has gawk, and copy it.

Tim: make AWK=awk doesn't work either, same result. (I.e., backslashes in the
Makefile) It would really be good to fix this.




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> I think we should remove, update, or link to the Fedora livecd the
> http://daly.axiom-developer.org/doyen/doyen04262005.iso image.
> 
> What do you think?

good idea. done. --t



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Bill,

Are you able to do save-system in gcl on OSX?
That's my current limitation.

t



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i have gcl-2.6.8pre2 running but cannot do save-system
i have rebuilt the makefiles so the bootsys and depsys
steps are run in a clean gcl rather than saving an image.
i'm working on getting interpsys to build.
a gcl version that can do save-system would short-circuit the effort
and allow me to get the system running.

i read your patches and it appears that at least one of them might
solve the problem.

unfortunately i have a 3 day meeting in work starting this morning
but i'll try to get your patches applied by this weekend.

t



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"William Sit" <wyscc@sci.ccny.cuny.edu> writes:

> On Tue, 17 Oct 2006 17:18:37 -0700 (PDT)
>   C Y <smustudent1@yahoo.com> wrote:
> >integrate(%e^cos(x)*cos(x-sin(x)),x = 0..2*%pi)
> >
> > Apparently this can be solved by Mathematica in it's upcoming version. We
> > currently get "failed."
> >
> >Cheers,
> >CY
> 
> Apparently, Mathematica got this wrong in Version 5.2:
> In[1]:=
> Integrate[Exp[Cos[x]] Cos[x-Sin[x]], {x,0,2 Pi}]
> 
> Out[1]=
> 0
> 
> But a look at the graph of the integrand shows this is clearly wrong. Indeed,
> In[3]:=
> NIntegrate[Exp[Cos[x]] Cos[x-Sin[x]], {x,0,2 Pi}]
> 
> Out[3]=
> 6.28319
> 
> which looks like the exact answer is 2 Pi.

Yes, both Maple and Mathematica currently need help (namely you have to say
Expand[Cos[x - Sin[x]]]), but the upcoming version of Mathematica fixes this. 

See:

http://groups.google.com/group/sci.math.symbolic/browse_frm/thread/2987d75001d88189/408eefdbb9b6266b?lnk=raot&hl=en#408eefdbb9b6266b

It would really be good to have an integration expert around.

Martin

By the way, the indefinite integral is according the MMA

In[2]:= Integrate[E^Cos[x] * TrigExpand[ Cos[ x - Sin[x] ] ], x]

             I x           -I x
        I   E    - I x    E     + I x                  -I x
Out[2]= - (E           - E            + ExpIntegralEi[E    ] -
        2

                      I x
>      ExpIntegralEi[E   ])

so I suspect that we might be able to tweak the pattern matcher to do it.

TrigExpand gives

In[3]:= TrigExpand[ Cos[ x - Sin[x] ] ]

                    Cos[x]   I              Cos[x]   I
Out[3]= Cos[x] Cosh[------ - - Sin[x]] Cosh[------ + - Sin[x]] +
                      2      2                2      2

            Cos[x]   I                     Cos[x]   I
>    I Cosh[------ + - Sin[x]] Sin[x] Sinh[------ - - Sin[x]] -
              2      2                       2      2

            Cos[x]   I                     Cos[x]   I
>    I Cosh[------ - - Sin[x]] Sin[x] Sinh[------ + - Sin[x]] -
              2      2                       2      2

                 Cos[x]   I              Cos[x]   I
>    Cos[x] Sinh[------ - - Sin[x]] Sinh[------ + - Sin[x]]
                   2      2                2      2

Maybe you could look into this, Cliff?

You will have to consider the proposed fix to issue #191

Martin




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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Tim,=20

On Wednesday, October 18, 2006 2:00 AM you asked:
>=20
> Are you able to do save-system in gcl on OSX?
> That's my current limitation.
>=20

Yes. The following sequence works:

  gcl
  (si:save-system "whatever")
  (quit)
  ./whatever
  (+ 1 1)

Can you suggest a more significant test?

Regards,
Bill Page.



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> > 
> > Are you able to do save-system in gcl on OSX?
> > That's my current limitation.
> > 
> 
> Yes. The following sequence works:
> 
>   gcl
>   (si:save-system "whatever")
>   (quit)
>   ./whatever
>   (+ 1 1)
> 
> Can you suggest a more significant test?

nope. that's all i need. now i can trash the work i've been doing
and get the system together. great news. 

why did you need gettext and sed? i've grabbed tarballs of both,
saved your instructions, and will try to follow your lead on this.

t



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> However, I realized just after posting that my problem is known as issue
> #131. I thought that a fix was already applied, but apparently it did not
> happen. For the moment I'll simply generate the Makefile on my own computer,
> which has gawk, and copy it.

can you apply that fix and let me know if it works on the debian box?
i'll apply it here and test it. I'd hate to fix it on old systems
only to break it on new systems. unfortunately i don't have an old
system to test. 

t



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> > the maths department just switched to kubuntu. Although axiom 
> > is included, I'd like to have the possibility to compile it
> > myself. Well, it doesn't work.
> > ... 
> 
> Kubuntu is part of the Ubuntu project which is closely related
> to Debian, so for compiling Axiom I think the simplist way to
> compile Axiom might be from the Debian distribution of Axiom
> via 'apt-get source axiom*' and 'apt-get build-dep axiom*'.
> build-dep will install all of the build dependencies for Axiom.

i applied the src/algebra/Makefile patch that changes every
\$ to $ and i am kicking off a test build now. i'll let you
know if it works.

i'm grabbing an iso image of kubuntu from 
http://www.kubuntu.org/download.php

i'll try to install it on one of my boxes but not tonight.
i'm due to leave for work in 3 hours and i think i should
consider trying to sleep :-)

t



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Tim,=20

On Wednesday, October 18, 2006 2:31 AM you asked:
> ...=20
> why did you need gettext and sed? i've grabbed tarballs of both,
> saved your instructions, and will try to follow your lead on
> this.
>=20

The gcl build needs gnu msgfmt and libintl from gettext since at
least some part of gcl (binutils and debian) trys to provide
localized messages. On your system you might find this in the
/sw directory if you've previously installed Fink. But I wanted
to avoid that.

On the OSX 10.2 system I am using at SourceForge, the 'sed' editor
is quite old and complained about some of the sed scripts in the
gcl build, so I just locally replaced it with the new version.
This might not be a problem on newer releases of OSX. (10.8 just
released?)

The critical thing was really the patch to o/unexmacosx.c. This
part of gcl is borrowed from emacs but it is based on a version
of emacs that is now quite old. I started by trying to use a newer
version of unexmacosx.c from the emacs source distribution, but the
gcl-specific modifications were beyond my level of understanding.
In the end I opted to backport just the minimum changes that allowed
the old version to compile. But I wouldn't be too surprized if this
was broken again in newer releases of OSX.

Have you tried downloading and running the binary that I posted
in an earlier message?

http://page.axiom-developer.org/gcl-2.6.8-osx10-20061017.bin

Regards,
Bill Page.



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> Have you tried downloading and running the binary that I posted
> in an earlier message?
> 
> http://page.axiom-developer.org/gcl-2.6.8-osx10-20061017.bin

nope. i'll download it later tonight --t



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> Have you tried downloading and running the binary that I posted
> in an earlier message?
> 
> http://page.axiom-developer.org/gcl-2.6.8-osx10-20061017.bin

nope. i'll download it later tonight --t



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> can you apply that fix and let me know if it works on the debian box?
> i'll apply it here and test it. I'd hate to fix it on old systems
> only to break it on new systems. unfortunately i don't have an old
> system to test. 

well, the build is still cooking on the algebra but the changes to
the sed/awk scripts clearly works. 

this is patched in the next release. --t



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On 10/18/2006 01:03 PM, root wrote:
>> can you apply that fix and let me know if it works on the debian box?
>> i'll apply it here and test it. I'd hate to fix it on old systems
>> only to break it on new systems. unfortunately i don't have an old
>> system to test. 
> 
> well, the build is still cooking on the algebra but the changes to
> the sed/awk scripts clearly works. 
> 
> this is patched in the next release. --t

Does this sound like Tim's Gold-to-be version is going to be different 
from Silver???

Ralf



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I know in general simplification and comparisons of equality are hard
problems, but I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the formal mathematical
results that demonstrate this.  Practically the problem is obviously
difficult, and I have heard on many occasions that equality of two
expressions is undecidable in general, but I'm curious if these
questions have some "formal" mathematical analysis behind them.

Can someone recommend some resources on automatic simplification,
discussions of what "simplification" means, and issues related to
undecidable equality cases?  My motivation is this - for some cases
equality is undecidable, for some it is undecidable in reasonable time,
for others is is solvable (4^a=2^(2a) being the example in issue 191). 
If equality cannot be decided in general, perhaps there is a way to
categorize expressions so that it is "decidable if the question is
decidable", so to speak.  I suppose the question is not terribly
interesting from a theoretical mathematical standpoint, but if it
should happen to be possible it would be very useful in CAS work.

Maybe there isn't any way in general to make this systematic, but if
not I would like to understand why that's the case.  Any pointers
appreciated.

Cheers and thanks,
CY

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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On 10/18/06, root <daly@axiom-developer.org> wrote:
> > I think we should remove, update, or link to the Fedora livecd the
> > http://daly.axiom-developer.org/doyen/doyen04262005.iso image.
> >
> > What do you think?
>
> good idea. done. --t
>

Thank you.



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Greetings!  And thanks so much for looking into this!  Comments
below. 

"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

> Camm,
> 
> I have succeeded in compiling gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2 on the
> SourceForge compile farm 'ppc-osx3' server, however some patches
> were necessary. This machine has Xcode installed by not Fink.
> 
> First, I checked out gcl-2.6.8pre from cvs on October 15, 2006,
> created a tarball and scp'd it and the standard gnu gettext-0.15
> and sed-4.1.4 tarballs to my home directory on SourceForge.
> 
> Next I compiled and installed gettext and sed with
>   --prefix=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx
> creating the ~/osx/bin and ~/osx/lib directories. These are
> apparently required to satisfy the gcl build dependencies on
> OSX 10.2. (Note: A Fink installation might also have provided
> these in the /sw directory.)
> 

I thought that gettext was no longer required, as it was included in
the local bfd build (from configure.in:)

	cd binutils/bfd && chmod +x configure && ./configure --with-included-gettext && cd ../..

We do need sed.  I guess OSX has none, or it is incompatible?

Is Fink so non-standard that it must be avoided?  What is the
canonical way to get gnu software on OSX?


> Then I added:
> 
>   export PATH=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin:$PATH
>   export LIBRARY_PATH=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib:$LIBRARY_PATH
>   export CPPFLAGS="-no-cpp-precomp"
>   cd osx
> 
> to ~/.profile so that after re-login the environment was set
> appropriately.
> 
> I untarred gcl into the osx directory creating ~/osx/gcl-2.6.8pre
> Then I applied the following patches (most of which have been
> previously reported on the gcl email list by other people):
> 
> ------------------------
> ppc-osx3:~/osx billpage$ diff -Naur old/gcl* new/gcl*
> 
> This patch required so libintl is found in $LIBRARY_PATH.
> 
> diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs
> new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs
> --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Thu Jul 15 09:28:43 2004
> +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Sun Oct 15 22:07:45 2006
> @@ -6,7 +6,7 @@
> 
>  # Set this to avoid warnings when linking against libncurses.
>  # This is due to the requirements of the two level namespace.
> -LIBS := `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'` /sw/lib/libintl.dylib
> +LIBS := `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'` -lintl
> 
>  # Set this for the linker to operate correctly.
>  MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET = 10.2
> @@ -32,4 +32,4 @@
>  # This appears to be no longer necessary on Panther.
>  ARRS = libtool -static -o
> 
> -FINAL_CFLAGS := `echo $(FINAL_CFLAGS) | sed -e 's:-g::g'`
> \ No newline at end of file
> +FINAL_CFLAGS := `echo $(FINAL_CFLAGS) | sed -e 's:-g::g'`
> 

OK, this is going in, but I think we can lose the -lintl too.  Anyone
want to try to verify?

> This patch is required to define sbrk.
> 
> diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h
> new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h
> --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h Thu Dec  8 17:31:25 2005
> +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h Sun Oct 15 21:32:23 2006
> @@ -38,8 +38,9 @@
>  #undef SET_REAL_MAXPAGE
>  #define SET_REAL_MAXPAGE { my_sbrk(0); real_maxpage = (int)
> mach_maplimit/PAGESIZE; }
> 
> -#define sbrk my_sbrk
> +#include <unistd.h> /* to get sbrk defined */
>  extern void *my_sbrk(int incr);
> +#define sbrk my_sbrk
> 
> 
>  /** (si::save-system "...") a.k.a. unexec implementation  */
> 

I don't get this one, as we emulate sbrk here.  Where is the system
definition required?

> This patch is required to remove functions symbols from plt.
> 
> diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile
> --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile Fri Sep 15 10:45:18 2006
> +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile Mon Oct 16 22:03:52 2006
> @@ -154,7 +154,7 @@
>                              print a}' \
>                         k=$(LEADING_UNDERSCORE) |\
>                         sort | \
> -                       grep -v '[^ \t_]_' |\
> +                       grep -v 'restFP' | grep -v 'saveFP' | grep -v
> '[^ \t_]_' |\
>                         $(AWK) '{A[++k]=$$0} END {for (i=1;i<=k;i++) \
>                                 printf("MY_PLT(%s)%s\n",A[i],i==k ? "" :
> ",");}' >$@
> 

OK.  This is quite ugly, but its a hack to begin with.  Suggestions
most welcome.

> This patch is required to find malloc.h on some OSX machines.
> 
> diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c
> new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c
> --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c     Thu Dec 15 10:48:43 2005
> +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c     Tue Oct 17 18:55:04 2006
> @@ -124,7 +124,13 @@
>  #endif
>  #include <mach-o/nlist.h>
>  #include <mach-o/getsect.h>
> +/* not <sys/malloc.h> */
> +/* not <malloc.h> */
> +#if defined (HAVE_MALLOC_MALLOC_H)
>  #include <malloc/malloc.h>
> +#else
> +#include <objc/malloc.h>
> +#endif
> 
>  #include <sys/mman.h>
> 

OK, I take it you are using objc/malloc.h.  We need configure code to
look for this, and bomb if it cannot find one, just on macosx.  I'll
take a stab unless someone else wants to.

May I suggest we also lose the diagnostic output on save-system on
this platform?

Thanks again!  Will post when something is checked in.

BTW, I'm pushing 2.6.8 (in the guise of 2.6.7) and all the apps
through the Debian autobuilder system before releasing 2.6.8.  Please
let me know of any other 2.6.8 issues you may be encountering in your
axiom work asap.  Bug fix only at this point, of course.

Take care,

> ppc-osx3:~/osx billpage$
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> Finally I built gcl with the following commands:
> 
>   ./configure --prefix=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx \
>      --disable-tkconfig  --disable-statsysbfd --enable-locbfd
>   make
>   make install
> 
> ---------
> 
> The resulting gcl binary (unixport/saved_gcl) in available here:
> 
>   http://page.axiom-developer.org/gcl-2.6.8-osx10-20061017.bin
> 
> I would be very happy if anyone with a MAC OSX machine would try
> this version of gcl on their systems and let me know of any
> problems.
> 
> I am currently working on completing the Axiom build based on the
> new build-improvements branch.
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Greetings!  OK I think this is in now on branches 2.6.8 and head.
Please let me know if problems persist.

Take care,

"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

> Camm,
> 
> I have succeeded in compiling gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2 on the
> SourceForge compile farm 'ppc-osx3' server, however some patches
> were necessary. This machine has Xcode installed by not Fink.
> 
> First, I checked out gcl-2.6.8pre from cvs on October 15, 2006,
> created a tarball and scp'd it and the standard gnu gettext-0.15
> and sed-4.1.4 tarballs to my home directory on SourceForge.
> 
> Next I compiled and installed gettext and sed with
>   --prefix=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx
> creating the ~/osx/bin and ~/osx/lib directories. These are
> apparently required to satisfy the gcl build dependencies on
> OSX 10.2. (Note: A Fink installation might also have provided
> these in the /sw directory.)
> 
> Then I added:
> 
>   export PATH=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin:$PATH
>   export LIBRARY_PATH=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib:$LIBRARY_PATH
>   export CPPFLAGS="-no-cpp-precomp"
>   cd osx
> 
> to ~/.profile so that after re-login the environment was set
> appropriately.
> 
> I untarred gcl into the osx directory creating ~/osx/gcl-2.6.8pre
> Then I applied the following patches (most of which have been
> previously reported on the gcl email list by other people):
> 
> ------------------------
> ppc-osx3:~/osx billpage$ diff -Naur old/gcl* new/gcl*
> 
> This patch required so libintl is found in $LIBRARY_PATH.
> 
> diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs
> new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs
> --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Thu Jul 15 09:28:43 2004
> +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Sun Oct 15 22:07:45 2006
> @@ -6,7 +6,7 @@
> 
>  # Set this to avoid warnings when linking against libncurses.
>  # This is due to the requirements of the two level namespace.
> -LIBS := `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'` /sw/lib/libintl.dylib
> +LIBS := `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'` -lintl
> 
>  # Set this for the linker to operate correctly.
>  MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET = 10.2
> @@ -32,4 +32,4 @@
>  # This appears to be no longer necessary on Panther.
>  ARRS = libtool -static -o
> 
> -FINAL_CFLAGS := `echo $(FINAL_CFLAGS) | sed -e 's:-g::g'`
> \ No newline at end of file
> +FINAL_CFLAGS := `echo $(FINAL_CFLAGS) | sed -e 's:-g::g'`
> 
> This patch is required to define sbrk.
> 
> diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h
> new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h
> --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h Thu Dec  8 17:31:25 2005
> +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h Sun Oct 15 21:32:23 2006
> @@ -38,8 +38,9 @@
>  #undef SET_REAL_MAXPAGE
>  #define SET_REAL_MAXPAGE { my_sbrk(0); real_maxpage = (int)
> mach_maplimit/PAGESIZE; }
> 
> -#define sbrk my_sbrk
> +#include <unistd.h> /* to get sbrk defined */
>  extern void *my_sbrk(int incr);
> +#define sbrk my_sbrk
> 
> 
>  /** (si::save-system "...") a.k.a. unexec implementation  */
> 
> This patch is required to remove functions symbols from plt.
> 
> diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile
> --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile Fri Sep 15 10:45:18 2006
> +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile Mon Oct 16 22:03:52 2006
> @@ -154,7 +154,7 @@
>                              print a}' \
>                         k=$(LEADING_UNDERSCORE) |\
>                         sort | \
> -                       grep -v '[^ \t_]_' |\
> +                       grep -v 'restFP' | grep -v 'saveFP' | grep -v
> '[^ \t_]_' |\
>                         $(AWK) '{A[++k]=$$0} END {for (i=1;i<=k;i++) \
>                                 printf("MY_PLT(%s)%s\n",A[i],i==k ? "" :
> ",");}' >$@
> 
> This patch is required to find malloc.h on some OSX machines.
> 
> diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c
> new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c
> --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c     Thu Dec 15 10:48:43 2005
> +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c     Tue Oct 17 18:55:04 2006
> @@ -124,7 +124,13 @@
>  #endif
>  #include <mach-o/nlist.h>
>  #include <mach-o/getsect.h>
> +/* not <sys/malloc.h> */
> +/* not <malloc.h> */
> +#if defined (HAVE_MALLOC_MALLOC_H)
>  #include <malloc/malloc.h>
> +#else
> +#include <objc/malloc.h>
> +#endif
> 
>  #include <sys/mman.h>
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx billpage$
> 
> ------------------------
> 
> Finally I built gcl with the following commands:
> 
>   ./configure --prefix=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx \
>      --disable-tkconfig  --disable-statsysbfd --enable-locbfd
>   make
>   make install
> 
> ---------
> 
> The resulting gcl binary (unixport/saved_gcl) in available here:
> 
>   http://page.axiom-developer.org/gcl-2.6.8-osx10-20061017.bin
> 
> I would be very happy if anyone with a MAC OSX machine would try
> this version of gcl on their systems and let me know of any
> problems.
> 
> I am currently working on completing the Axiom build based on the
> new build-improvements branch.
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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	<bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
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Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Camm,=20

On Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:25 AM you wrote:
> >=20
> > I have succeeded in compiling gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2 on the
> > SourceForge compile farm 'ppc-osx3' server, however some patches
> > were necessary. This machine has Xcode installed by not Fink.
> >=20
> > First, I checked out gcl-2.6.8pre from cvs on October 15, 2006,
> > created a tarball and scp'd it and the standard gnu gettext-0.15
> > and sed-4.1.4 tarballs to my home directory on SourceForge.
> >=20
> > Next I compiled and installed gettext and sed with
> >   --prefix=3D/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx
> > creating the ~/osx/bin and ~/osx/lib directories. These are
> > apparently required to satisfy the gcl build dependencies on
> > OSX 10.2. (Note: A Fink installation might also have provided
> > these in the /sw directory.)
> >=20
>=20
> I thought that gettext was no longer required, as it was included
> in the local bfd build (from configure.in:)
>=20
> 	cd binutils/bfd && chmod +x configure && ./configure=20
> --with-included-gettext && cd ../..
>

If I remove my local osx/bin from the PATH and try again I get
the error message "msgfmt: command not found" shown below.

---------

$ ./configure --prefix=3D/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx \
     --disable-tkconfig  --disable-statsysbfd --enable-locbfd
$ make
cd binutils/intl && make
gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DGNULOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
-I.  -g -O2  intl-compat.c
gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DGNULOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
-I.  -g -O2  bindtextdom.c
gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DGNULOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
-I.  -g -O2  dcgettext.c
gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DGNULOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
-I.  -g -O2  dgettext.c
gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DGNULOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
-I.  -g -O2  gettext.c
gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DGNULOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
-I.  -g -O2  finddomain.c
gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DGNULOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
-I.  -g -O2  loadmsgcat.c
gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DGNULOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
-I.  -g -O2  localealias.c
gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DGNULOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
-I.  -g -O2  textdomain.c
gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DGNULOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
-I.  -g -O2  l10nflist.c
gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DGNULOCALEDIR=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
-DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=3D\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
-I.  -g -O2  explodename.c
rm -f libintl.a
ar cru libintl.a intl-compat.o bindtextdom.o dcgettext.o dgettext.o
gettext.o finddomain.o loadmsgcat.o localealias.o textdomain.o
l10nflist.o explodename.o
ranlib libintl.a
cd binutils/bfd && make
make  all-recursive
Making all in doc
make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
Making all in po
( if test 'x.' !=3D 'x.'; then \
    posrcprefix=3D'../'; \
  else \
    posrcprefix=3D"../"; \
  fi; \
  rm -f SRC-POTFILES-t SRC-POTFILES \
    && (sed -e '/^#/d' \
            -e '/^[     ]*$/d' \
            -e "s@.*@   $posrcprefix& \\\\@" < ./SRC-POTFILES.in \
        | sed -e '$s/\\$//') > SRC-POTFILES-t \
    && chmod a-w SRC-POTFILES-t \
    && mv SRC-POTFILES-t SRC-POTFILES )
( rm -f BLD-POTFILES-t BLD-POTFILES \
    && (sed -e '/^#/d' \
            -e '/^[     ]*$/d' \
            -e "s@.*@   ../& \\\\@" < ./BLD-POTFILES.in \
        | sed -e '$s/\\$//') > BLD-POTFILES-t \
    && chmod a-w BLD-POTFILES-t \
    && mv BLD-POTFILES-t BLD-POTFILES )
cd .. \
  && CONFIG_FILES=3Dpo/Makefile.in:po/Make-in \
     CONFIG_HEADERS=3D /bin/sh ./config.status
config.status: creating po/Makefile.in
config.status: executing depfiles commands
config.status: executing default commands
file=3D./`echo fr | sed 's,.*/,,'`.gmo \
  && rm -f $file && PATH=3D../src:$PATH msgfmt -o $file fr.po
/bin/sh: msgfmt: command not found
make[3]: *** [fr.gmo] Error 127
make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
make[1]: *** [all] Error 2
make: *** [binutils/bfd/libbfd.a] Error 2

---------

gcl-2.6.8pre/binutils/bfd/config.log confirms:

 Invocation command line was

  $ ./configure --with-included-gettext

But apparently recursive makefile in bfd/po does not make
use of the included gettext. Maybe this is a binutils bug?=20
=20
> We do need sed.  I guess OSX has none, or it is incompatible?
>

This OSX 10.2 has an old sed that is not compatible.
=20
> Is Fink so non-standard that it must be avoided?  What is
> the canonical way to get gnu software on OSX?
>=20

I don't know. This SourceForge server is the closest I have
ever been to a MAC and it's probably a few thousand miles
away from here... :-) But I have heard that many people would
like to try to avoid installing "foreign" package systems like
Fink.

>=20
> > Then I added:
> >=20
> >   export PATH=3D/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin:$PATH
> >   export=20
> LIBRARY_PATH=3D/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib:$LIBRARY_PATH
> >   export CPPFLAGS=3D"-no-cpp-precomp"
> >   cd osx
> >=20
> > to ~/.profile so that after re-login the environment was set
> > appropriately.
> >=20
> > I untarred gcl into the osx directory creating ~/osx/gcl-2.6.8pre
> > Then I applied the following patches (most of which have been
> > previously reported on the gcl email list by other people):
> >=20
> > ------------------------
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx billpage$ diff -Naur old/gcl* new/gcl*
> >=20
> > This patch required so libintl is found in $LIBRARY_PATH.
> >=20
> > diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs
> > new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs
> > --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Thu Jul 15=20
> 09:28:43 2004
> > +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Sun Oct 15=20
> 22:07:45 2006
> > @@ -6,7 +6,7 @@
> >=20
> >  # Set this to avoid warnings when linking against libncurses.
> >  # This is due to the requirements of the two level namespace.
> > -LIBS :=3D `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'`=20
> /sw/lib/libintl.dylib
> > +LIBS :=3D `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'` -lintl
> >=20
> >  # Set this for the linker to operate correctly.
> >  MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET =3D 10.2
> > @@ -32,4 +32,4 @@
> >  # This appears to be no longer necessary on Panther.
> >  ARRS =3D libtool -static -o
> >=20
> > -FINAL_CFLAGS :=3D `echo $(FINAL_CFLAGS) | sed -e 's:-g::g'`
> > \ No newline at end of file
> > +FINAL_CFLAGS :=3D `echo $(FINAL_CFLAGS) | sed -e 's:-g::g'`
> >=20
>=20
> OK, this is going in, but I think we can lose the -lintl too.
> Anyone want to try to verify?
>

I think you are right.

If I 'make clean' and write:

  +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Sun Oct 15=20
  ...
  +LIBS :=3D `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'`

and just adding:

  export PATH=3D/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin:$PATH

(to avoid gettext bug) then trying configure & make as above
works fine.

=20
> > This patch is required to define sbrk.
> >=20
> > diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h
> > new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h
> > --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h Thu Dec  8 17:31:25 2005
> > +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h Sun Oct 15 21:32:23 2006
> > @@ -38,8 +38,9 @@
> >  #undef SET_REAL_MAXPAGE
> >  #define SET_REAL_MAXPAGE { my_sbrk(0); real_maxpage =3D (int)
> > mach_maplimit/PAGESIZE; }
> >=20
> > -#define sbrk my_sbrk
> > +#include <unistd.h> /* to get sbrk defined */
> >  extern void *my_sbrk(int incr);
> > +#define sbrk my_sbrk
> >=20
> >=20
> >  /** (si::save-system "...") a.k.a. unexec implementation  */
> >=20
>=20
> I don't get this one, as we emulate sbrk here.  Where is the system
> definition required?
>

If I reverse this change and do 'make clean & configure & make'
I get the error "conflicting types for `my_sbrk'":

cd unixport && make saved_pre_gcl
ls: ../xgcl-2/*.o: No such file or directory
ls: ../mod/*.o: No such file or directory
ls: ../pcl/*.o: No such file or directory
ls: ../clcs/*.o: No such file or directory
ls: ../clcs/clcs_*.lisp: No such file or directory
gcc  -Wall -DVOL=3Dvolatile -fsigned-char -pipe -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer
-I/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o   -c -o sys_pre_gcl.o
sys_pre_gcl.c
../h/../h/protoize.h:465: warning: could not use precompiled header
'/usr/include/unistd-gcc3.p', because:
../h/../h/protoize.h:465: warning: macro 'valloc' defined by
../h/config.h conflicts with precomp
In file included from ../h/../h/protoize.h:465,
                 from ../h/include.h:70,
                 from sys_pre_gcl.c:3:
/usr/include/unistd.h:203: conflicting types for `my_sbrk'
../h/config.h:42: previous declaration of `my_sbrk'
make[1]: *** [sys_pre_gcl.o] Error 1
make: *** [unixport/saved_pre_gcl] Error 2

-------

> > This patch is required to remove functions symbols from plt.
> >=20
> > diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile
> > --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile Fri Sep 15 10:45:18 2006
> > +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile Mon Oct 16 22:03:52 2006
> > @@ -154,7 +154,7 @@
> >                              print a}' \
> >                         k=3D$(LEADING_UNDERSCORE) |\
> >                         sort | \
> > -                       grep -v '[^ \t_]_' |\
> > +                       grep -v 'restFP' | grep -v 'saveFP'=20
> | grep -v
> > '[^ \t_]_' |\
> >                         $(AWK) '{A[++k]=3D$$0} END {for=20
> (i=3D1;i<=3Dk;i++) \
> >                                =20
> printf("MY_PLT(%s)%s\n",A[i],i=3D=3Dk ? "" :
> > ",");}' >$@
> >=20
>=20
> OK.  This is quite ugly, but its a hack to begin with.  Suggestions
> most welcome.
>

I only vaguely understand what this is doing but 'restFP' and
'saveFP' are not removed from this list than the compile complains
about "function symbols" not used in a function ... or something
like that. The other names make sense to me. For example:

MY_PLT(__srget),
MY_PLT(__swbuf),
...

which derive from the implementation of getc(f) and putc(ch,f).
But see later in the message - I apparently have a problem with
__srget.

> > This patch is required to find malloc.h on some OSX machines.
> >=20
> > diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c
> > new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c
> > --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c     Thu Dec 15 10:48:43 2005
> > +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c     Tue Oct 17 18:55:04 2006
> > @@ -124,7 +124,13 @@
> >  #endif
> >  #include <mach-o/nlist.h>
> >  #include <mach-o/getsect.h>
> > +/* not <sys/malloc.h> */
> > +/* not <malloc.h> */
> > +#if defined (HAVE_MALLOC_MALLOC_H)
> >  #include <malloc/malloc.h>
> > +#else
> > +#include <objc/malloc.h>
> > +#endif
> >=20
> >  #include <sys/mman.h>
> >=20
>=20
> OK, I take it you are using objc/malloc.h.  We need configure code
> to look for this, and bomb if it cannot find one, just on macosx.
> I'll take a stab unless someone else wants to.
>

Makes sense to me. You are the autoconf wizard. :-)
=20
> May I suggest we also lose the diagnostic output on save-system
> on this platform?

Yes, it looks pretty ugly but maybe it is needed just a little
while longer (or optionally) to verify that si::save-system and
compiler::link are really working properly?

>=20
> Thanks again!  Will post when something is checked in.
>

Thank you. I look forward to a finally finalized 2.6.8. The
evoluton of 2.6.8pre is causing us a little consternaton in
the current Axiom source distribution... :-)
=20
> BTW, I'm pushing 2.6.8 (in the guise of 2.6.7) and all the apps
> through the Debian autobuilder system before releasing 2.6.8.
> Please let me know of any other 2.6.8 issues you may be
> encountering in your axiom work asap.  Bug fix only at this
> point, of course.
>

Hmmmm... well I do currently have a problem with the Axiom build.
After successfully building bootsys and depsys the build fails
building interpsys with the following message:

start address -T 0xb8f000 Finished loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/obj/powerpc-apple
-darwin6.8/interp/bookvol5.o
Loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/obj/powerpc-apple
-darwin6.8/interp/util.o

Error: Undefined symbol "___srget"
Fast links are on: do (si::use-fast-links nil) for debugging
Error signalled by LOAD.
Broken at LOAD.  Type :H for Help.
>>make[2]: ***
[/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/build/powerpc-ap
ple-darwin6.8/bin/interpsys] Error 255
make[1]: *** [interp/stamp] Error 2
make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1

---------

Something is strange about thid symbol "___srget" with the 3
underscore characters, I think??? The name "__srget" with 2
underscore characters is properly defined in /usr/include/stdio.h

I don't understand what is going on here.

Also prior to compiling depsys, bootsys was already successfully
created however it did have one oddity. The original Axiom load
commands like ')load postpar' run during building depsys fails
with an error message like "'postpar.8' does not exist" (Yes, that's
the digit 8 after the dot.). If I change the command to include the
.o like this: ')load postpar.o' everything seems fine and depsys
is built.

bootsys itself is actually built form a copy of gcl called 'lisp'
that is created using compiler::link. The 'lisp' image includes
several Axiom specific external routines. I.e.

echo '(compiler::link nil
=20
"/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/build/powerpc-ap
ple-darwin6.8/bin/lisp" ' \
              ' (format nil "(progn (let ((*load-path* (cons ~S
*load-path*))'\
              ' (si::*load-types* ~S))' \
              ' (compiler::emit-fn t))' \
              ' (when (fboundp (quote si::sgc-on))' \
              ' (si::sgc-on t))' \
              ' (setq compiler::*default-system-p* t))"' \
              ' si::*system-directory* (quote (list ".lsp")))' \
              '
"/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/.././src/lib
/cfuns-c.o' \
               '
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/.././src/lib/
sockio-c.o' \
               '
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/.././src/lib/
libspad.a")' \
 | /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin/gcl

If I intervene and make Axiom use the original 'saved_gcl' to build
'bootsys' instead of using 'lisp', then the 'postpar.8' problem does
not occur and gcl finds the .o files anyway, as expected.

This makes me suspicious that something subtle may be wrong with
the output of 'compiler:link'. The size of the result images also
seem curious:

-rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  18362444 Oct 17 19:08 saved_gcl
...
-rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  13072984 Oct 18 04:01 lisp
-rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  19159640 Oct 18 04:01 bootsys
-rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100   7719512 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp.tmp
-rw-r--r--  1 billpage  100         0 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp_map
-rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  49588824 Oct 18 03:10 depsys

Remember that 'lisp' is create by 'compiler::link' from
saved_gcl plus some externals. Why is it smaller? Also the
"raw" files were left here don't look "normal" to me.

A test image of gcl created by

  $ gcl
  (si:save-system "test-image")
  (quit)

is actually *larger* than the original saved_gcl.

-rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  23699532 Oct 18 11:07 test-image

Are all these problems related?

Any thing you can suggest would be greatly appreciated.

Regards,
Bill Page.

> >=20
> > ---------
> >=20
> > The resulting gcl binary (unixport/saved_gcl) in available here:
> >=20
> >   http://page.axiom-developer.org/gcl-2.6.8-osx10-20061017.bin
> >=20
> > I would be very happy if anyone with a MAC OSX machine would try
> > this version of gcl on their systems and let me know of any
> > problems.
> >=20
> > I am currently working on completing the Axiom build based on the
> > new build-improvements branch.
> >=20



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Thread-Topic: [sage-devel] Re: MAGMA question
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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
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Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: [sage-devel] Re: MAGMA question
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William and William, ...

I hope you don't mind my adding a little of Axiom's point
of view to this subject. Declaring the types of objects
like this is something that we Axiom users tend to talk about
a lot. :-) But if you find this discussion of types in Axiom
rather off-topic, then please excuse my interjection. But
I hope that my comments might be relevant to both Axiom and
Sage users to better understand the relationship between these
systems at a fundamental level. I think this is especially
important since we now have the initial release of an interface
for Axiom in Sage.

>=20
> On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 10:16:30 -0700, William Hart wrote:
> > Even something like:
> >
> > declare(x);
> >
> > or
> >
> > local(x);
> >
> > or
> >
> > indet(x);
> >
> > would be better. To declare it as an
> > indeterminate/symbol/whatchamacallit.

In the Axiom interpreter (but not in the compiler, in the
compiler all types are explicit and it has no default types
or type inference), unless otherwise stated all symbols are
assumed to be variables denoted by that symbol

(1) -> a

   (1)  a
                                          Type: Variable a

The domain (type) constructor Variable denotes a class
whose sole member, also denoted by a, can stand for some
other value. But once I assign it a value it also acquires
a new Type:

(2) -> a :=3D -1

   (2)  - 1
                                             Type: Integer

On Wednesday, October 18, 2006 2:11 PM William Stein wrote:
>=20
> All three of the examples you give above would be illegal
> in most programming languages, including Python.  They are
> illegal since they are functional calls that take x as input,
> and I think we are assuming that x hasn't been defined yet.
>

In Axiom the concept of type is separate from the concept of
value, so for example we can declare x to be of type Polynomial
with Integer coefficients (POLY and INT are standard short
forms):

(3) -> x:POLY(INT)
                                                 Type: Void

The type Void means there is no value association with this
declaration. But if was ask about 'x' then Axiom now knows
it's type:

(4) -> x

   (4)  x
                                    Type: Polynomial Integer

and in this case it also has a value again denoted by 'x'.
The fact that symbols directly denote values in some domains,
i.e. "symbolic" domains such as polynomials, can be a little
confusing at first to some users but I think it (more or less)
corresponds to usual conventions in mathematics.

> What about
>=20
>      x =3D polygen()
>=20
> Then the resulting x can be used to *create* "classical"
> polynomials just as you suggest in your previous email.
> I think I could implement something like that very easily.

This seems very similar to Axiom except in Sage/Python normally
types are *only* associated with values and variables acquire
their type dynamically by assignment of a value. The net effect
however in this case appears to be the same. But in Axiom I
can now make a new assignment of a value to x

(5) -> x:=3D1

   (5)  1
                                   Type: Polynomial Integer

and the result is still a Polynomial with Integer coefficients
but it is now a different member of this domain and x now
stands for that member

(8) -> x

   (8)  1
                                    Type: Polynomial Integer

>=20
> > It saves typing
> >
> > R<x> :=3D polynomialRing(Integers());
> >
> > which is just mindless.
>=20
> I don't consider that mindless.  However, I'm not at all
> opposed to having some much easier shorthands.
>=20
> Incidentally, SAGE already has a useful shorthand for the
> above:
>=20
> sage: x =3D polygen(ZZ)
> sage: parent(x)
> Univariate Polynomial Ring in x over Integer Ring
>

I think you need to define the semantics very carefully here.
As an Axiom user I want to interpret the Sage expressions
above in a slightly different language. What you mean is that
x is now a member of a certain class, i.e. it's "parent" and
polygen is a generator of members of this class. Here the
value is explicit by the type of the result, i.e. parent, is
implicit. This is sort of the opposite of the convention used
in Axiom.

In Sage how would I create a symbol whose value is the Integer
1 considered as a Polynomial? E.g. (5) above.
=20
> And, everything above is standard in SAGE (e.g., polygen and
> ZZ are defined for all SAGE installs).
>=20
> > Pari does get around it altogether. You never have to
> > tell it you are declaring a polynomial or specify a
> > ring. Of course it doesn't support many rings, can't
> > do algebra as such and doesn't have the limitations
> > you are working with in Python.
>=20
> I'm not sure I like PARI polynomials.  The precedence of
> variable names (and even the choice of names) is hard coded
> into the system.  It's only good for smallish toy situation.
> I wouldn't want to write a 100,000 line program built out of
> such a thing.

I agree. That was one reason I was surprised when I saw that
Sage treats

  sage: x+1

and

  sage: y+1

differently if these are the first two statements entered in a
Sage session. However it is now more clear to me dynamic typing
makes this convention fairly natural and (mostly) harmless. In
contrast to a system like Axiom, nothing is stopping us from
simply using x and y in different ways. But in Axiom if we write

(9) -> x:=3Dsin(y)

   Cannot convert right-hand side of assignment
     sin(y)
   to an object of the type Polynomial Integer of the
   left-hand side.

We are prevented by Axiom's static type rules.

>=20
> Of course, in SAGE you can use PARI polynomials:
>=20
> sage: x =3D pari('x')
> sage: y =3D pari('y')
> sage: f =3D x*(y^2+7/3)
> sage: f^3
> (y^6 + 7*y^4 + 49/3*y^2 + 343/27)*x^3
>

And now you can do the same think using Axiom :-)

[page@axiom-developer page]$ sage
--------------------------------------------------------
| SAGE Version 1.4, Build Date: 2006-10-05             |
| Distributed under the GNU General Public License V2. |
--------------------------------------------------------

experimental

sage: x =3D axiom('x')
sage: y =3D axiom('y')
sage: f =3D x*(y^2+7/3)
sage: f^3

   3 6     3 4   49  3 2   343  3
  x y  + 7x y  + -- x y  + --- x
                  3         27
=20
Type: Polynomial Fraction Integer

sage:

> > Anyhow, it is just one pet peeve in MAGMA which seems
> > easy enough to relieve somehow.
>=20
> What do you think of
>      x =3D polygen(ZZ)      for x in ZZ[x]
> and
>      x =3D polygen()        for a formal x (whose properties=20
> are yet to be determined)
>=20

What would be the value of parent(x) for the second case?

Regards,
Bill Page.



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X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 18 Oct 2006 20:30:55 -0000

Greetings!

"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

> Camm, 
> 
> On Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:25 AM you wrote:
> > > 
> > > I have succeeded in compiling gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2 on the
> > > SourceForge compile farm 'ppc-osx3' server, however some patches
> > > were necessary. This machine has Xcode installed by not Fink.
> > > 
> > > First, I checked out gcl-2.6.8pre from cvs on October 15, 2006,
> > > created a tarball and scp'd it and the standard gnu gettext-0.15
> > > and sed-4.1.4 tarballs to my home directory on SourceForge.
> > > 
> > > Next I compiled and installed gettext and sed with
> > >   --prefix=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx
> > > creating the ~/osx/bin and ~/osx/lib directories. These are
> > > apparently required to satisfy the gcl build dependencies on
> > > OSX 10.2. (Note: A Fink installation might also have provided
> > > these in the /sw directory.)
> > > 
> > 
> > I thought that gettext was no longer required, as it was included
> > in the local bfd build (from configure.in:)
> > 
> > 	cd binutils/bfd && chmod +x configure && ./configure 
> > --with-included-gettext && cd ../..
> >
> 
> If I remove my local osx/bin from the PATH and try again I get
> the error message "msgfmt: command not found" shown below.
> 
> ---------
> 
> $ ./configure --prefix=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx \
>      --disable-tkconfig  --disable-statsysbfd --enable-locbfd
> $ make
> cd binutils/intl && make
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  intl-compat.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  bindtextdom.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  dcgettext.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  dgettext.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  gettext.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  finddomain.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  loadmsgcat.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  localealias.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  textdomain.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  l10nflist.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  explodename.c
> rm -f libintl.a
> ar cru libintl.a intl-compat.o bindtextdom.o dcgettext.o dgettext.o
> gettext.o finddomain.o loadmsgcat.o localealias.o textdomain.o
> l10nflist.o explodename.o
> ranlib libintl.a
> cd binutils/bfd && make
> make  all-recursive
> Making all in doc
> make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
> Making all in po
> ( if test 'x.' != 'x.'; then \
>     posrcprefix='../'; \
>   else \
>     posrcprefix="../"; \
>   fi; \
>   rm -f SRC-POTFILES-t SRC-POTFILES \
>     && (sed -e '/^#/d' \
>             -e '/^[     ]*$/d' \
>             -e "s@.*@   $posrcprefix& \\\\@" < ./SRC-POTFILES.in \
>         | sed -e '$s/\\$//') > SRC-POTFILES-t \
>     && chmod a-w SRC-POTFILES-t \
>     && mv SRC-POTFILES-t SRC-POTFILES )
> ( rm -f BLD-POTFILES-t BLD-POTFILES \
>     && (sed -e '/^#/d' \
>             -e '/^[     ]*$/d' \
>             -e "s@.*@   ../& \\\\@" < ./BLD-POTFILES.in \
>         | sed -e '$s/\\$//') > BLD-POTFILES-t \
>     && chmod a-w BLD-POTFILES-t \
>     && mv BLD-POTFILES-t BLD-POTFILES )
> cd .. \
>   && CONFIG_FILES=po/Makefile.in:po/Make-in \
>      CONFIG_HEADERS= /bin/sh ./config.status
> config.status: creating po/Makefile.in
> config.status: executing depfiles commands
> config.status: executing default commands
> file=./`echo fr | sed 's,.*/,,'`.gmo \
>   && rm -f $file && PATH=../src:$PATH msgfmt -o $file fr.po
> /bin/sh: msgfmt: command not found
> make[3]: *** [fr.gmo] Error 127
> make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
> make[1]: *** [all] Error 2
> make: *** [binutils/bfd/libbfd.a] Error 2

Sigh.  I suppose reconfigured here?  The binutils configure scripts do
look for msgfmt.  I'm surprised they don't step around a missing one,
or at least bomb.  What does your binutils configure output say in
this regard?

> 
> ---------
> 
> gcl-2.6.8pre/binutils/bfd/config.log confirms:
> 
>  Invocation command line was
> 
>   $ ./configure --with-included-gettext
> 
> But apparently recursive makefile in bfd/po does not make
> use of the included gettext. Maybe this is a binutils bug? 
>  
> > We do need sed.  I guess OSX has none, or it is incompatible?
> >
> 
> This OSX 10.2 has an old sed that is not compatible.
>  
> > Is Fink so non-standard that it must be avoided?  What is
> > the canonical way to get gnu software on OSX?
> > 
> 
> I don't know. This SourceForge server is the closest I have
> ever been to a MAC and it's probably a few thousand miles
> away from here... :-) But I have heard that many people would
> like to try to avoid installing "foreign" package systems like
> Fink.
> 
> > 
> > > Then I added:
> > > 
> > >   export PATH=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin:$PATH
> > >   export 
> > LIBRARY_PATH=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib:$LIBRARY_PATH
> > >   export CPPFLAGS="-no-cpp-precomp"
> > >   cd osx
> > > 
> > > to ~/.profile so that after re-login the environment was set
> > > appropriately.
> > > 
> > > I untarred gcl into the osx directory creating ~/osx/gcl-2.6.8pre
> > > Then I applied the following patches (most of which have been
> > > previously reported on the gcl email list by other people):
> > > 
> > > ------------------------
> > > ppc-osx3:~/osx billpage$ diff -Naur old/gcl* new/gcl*
> > > 
> > > This patch required so libintl is found in $LIBRARY_PATH.
> > > 
> > > diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs
> > > new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs
> > > --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Thu Jul 15 
> > 09:28:43 2004
> > > +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Sun Oct 15 
> > 22:07:45 2006
> > > @@ -6,7 +6,7 @@
> > > 
> > >  # Set this to avoid warnings when linking against libncurses.
> > >  # This is due to the requirements of the two level namespace.
> > > -LIBS := `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'` 
> > /sw/lib/libintl.dylib
> > > +LIBS := `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'` -lintl
> > > 
> > >  # Set this for the linker to operate correctly.
> > >  MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET = 10.2
> > > @@ -32,4 +32,4 @@
> > >  # This appears to be no longer necessary on Panther.
> > >  ARRS = libtool -static -o
> > > 
> > > -FINAL_CFLAGS := `echo $(FINAL_CFLAGS) | sed -e 's:-g::g'`
> > > \ No newline at end of file
> > > +FINAL_CFLAGS := `echo $(FINAL_CFLAGS) | sed -e 's:-g::g'`
> > > 
> > 
> > OK, this is going in, but I think we can lose the -lintl too.
> > Anyone want to try to verify?
> >
> 
> I think you are right.
> 
> If I 'make clean' and write:
> 
>   +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Sun Oct 15 
>   ...
>   +LIBS := `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'`
> 
> and just adding:
> 
>   export PATH=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin:$PATH
> 
> (to avoid gettext bug) then trying configure & make as above
> works fine.
> 
>  
> > > This patch is required to define sbrk.
> > > 
> > > diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h
> > > new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h
> > > --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h Thu Dec  8 17:31:25 2005
> > > +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h Sun Oct 15 21:32:23 2006
> > > @@ -38,8 +38,9 @@
> > >  #undef SET_REAL_MAXPAGE
> > >  #define SET_REAL_MAXPAGE { my_sbrk(0); real_maxpage = (int)
> > > mach_maplimit/PAGESIZE; }
> > > 
> > > -#define sbrk my_sbrk
> > > +#include <unistd.h> /* to get sbrk defined */
> > >  extern void *my_sbrk(int incr);
> > > +#define sbrk my_sbrk
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  /** (si::save-system "...") a.k.a. unexec implementation  */
> > > 
> > 
> > I don't get this one, as we emulate sbrk here.  Where is the system
> > definition required?
> >
> 
> If I reverse this change and do 'make clean & configure & make'
> I get the error "conflicting types for `my_sbrk'":
> 
> cd unixport && make saved_pre_gcl
> ls: ../xgcl-2/*.o: No such file or directory
> ls: ../mod/*.o: No such file or directory
> ls: ../pcl/*.o: No such file or directory
> ls: ../clcs/*.o: No such file or directory
> ls: ../clcs/clcs_*.lisp: No such file or directory
> gcc  -Wall -DVOL=volatile -fsigned-char -pipe -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer
> -I/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o   -c -o sys_pre_gcl.o
> sys_pre_gcl.c
> ../h/../h/protoize.h:465: warning: could not use precompiled header
> '/usr/include/unistd-gcc3.p', because:
> ../h/../h/protoize.h:465: warning: macro 'valloc' defined by
> ../h/config.h conflicts with precomp
> In file included from ../h/../h/protoize.h:465,
>                  from ../h/include.h:70,
>                  from sys_pre_gcl.c:3:
> /usr/include/unistd.h:203: conflicting types for `my_sbrk'
> ../h/config.h:42: previous declaration of `my_sbrk'
> make[1]: *** [sys_pre_gcl.o] Error 1
> make: *** [unixport/saved_pre_gcl] Error 2
> 

OK this is in.

> -------
> 
> > > This patch is required to remove functions symbols from plt.
> > > 
> > > diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile
> > > --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile Fri Sep 15 10:45:18 2006
> > > +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile Mon Oct 16 22:03:52 2006
> > > @@ -154,7 +154,7 @@
> > >                              print a}' \
> > >                         k=$(LEADING_UNDERSCORE) |\
> > >                         sort | \
> > > -                       grep -v '[^ \t_]_' |\
> > > +                       grep -v 'restFP' | grep -v 'saveFP' 
> > | grep -v
> > > '[^ \t_]_' |\
> > >                         $(AWK) '{A[++k]=$$0} END {for 
> > (i=1;i<=k;i++) \
> > >                                 
> > printf("MY_PLT(%s)%s\n",A[i],i==k ? "" :
> > > ",");}' >$@
> > > 
> > 
> > OK.  This is quite ugly, but its a hack to begin with.  Suggestions
> > most welcome.
> >
> 
> I only vaguely understand what this is doing but 'restFP' and
> 'saveFP' are not removed from this list than the compile complains
> about "function symbols" not used in a function ... or something
> like that. The other names make sense to me. For example:
> 
> MY_PLT(__srget),
> MY_PLT(__swbuf),
> ...
> 
> which derive from the implementation of getc(f) and putc(ch,f).
> But see later in the message - I apparently have a problem with
> __srget.
> 

There is a notorious platform specific _ name mangling issue here.
See the LEADING_UNDERSCORE variable.

> > > This patch is required to find malloc.h on some OSX machines.
> > > 
> > > diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c
> > > new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c
> > > --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c     Thu Dec 15 10:48:43 2005
> > > +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c     Tue Oct 17 18:55:04 2006
> > > @@ -124,7 +124,13 @@
> > >  #endif
> > >  #include <mach-o/nlist.h>
> > >  #include <mach-o/getsect.h>
> > > +/* not <sys/malloc.h> */
> > > +/* not <malloc.h> */
> > > +#if defined (HAVE_MALLOC_MALLOC_H)
> > >  #include <malloc/malloc.h>
> > > +#else
> > > +#include <objc/malloc.h>
> > > +#endif
> > > 
> > >  #include <sys/mman.h>
> > > 
> > 
> > OK, I take it you are using objc/malloc.h.  We need configure code
> > to look for this, and bomb if it cannot find one, just on macosx.
> > I'll take a stab unless someone else wants to.
> >
> 
> Makes sense to me. You are the autoconf wizard. :-)
>  

Ugh. :-)

> > May I suggest we also lose the diagnostic output on save-system
> > on this platform?
> 
> Yes, it looks pretty ugly but maybe it is needed just a little
> while longer (or optionally) to verify that si::save-system and
> compiler::link are really working properly?

OK.

> 
> > 
> > Thanks again!  Will post when something is checked in.
> >
> 
> Thank you. I look forward to a finally finalized 2.6.8. The
> evoluton of 2.6.8pre is causing us a little consternaton in
> the current Axiom source distribution... :-)
>  

My apologies.  So many moving parts.  I have to get everything synched
on one image, however, if we want these apps in Etch.  And there have
been so many gcc et. al. issues.

BTW, are we not updating

http://axiom.axiom-developer.org/axiom-website/DOWNLOADS/

anymore?  Is there a latest official tarball somewhere for Etch (eta
this December)?  Having a simple webpage with the filenames in some
sort of alphabetical/cronological sort order lets me automatically
know when the Debian package needs updating.

> > BTW, I'm pushing 2.6.8 (in the guise of 2.6.7) and all the apps
> > through the Debian autobuilder system before releasing 2.6.8.
> > Please let me know of any other 2.6.8 issues you may be
> > encountering in your axiom work asap.  Bug fix only at this
> > point, of course.
> >
> 
> Hmmmm... well I do currently have a problem with the Axiom build.
> After successfully building bootsys and depsys the build fails
> building interpsys with the following message:
> 
> start address -T 0xb8f000 Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/obj/powerpc-apple
> -darwin6.8/interp/bookvol5.o
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/obj/powerpc-apple
> -darwin6.8/interp/util.o
> 
> Error: Undefined symbol "___srget"
> Fast links are on: do (si::use-fast-links nil) for debugging
> Error signalled by LOAD.
> Broken at LOAD.  Type :H for Help.
> >>make[2]: ***
> [/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/build/powerpc-ap
> ple-darwin6.8/bin/interpsys] Error 255
> make[1]: *** [interp/stamp] Error 2
> make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
> 
> ---------
> 
> Something is strange about thid symbol "___srget" with the 3
> underscore characters, I think??? The name "__srget" with 2
> underscore characters is properly defined in /usr/include/stdio.h
> 
> I don't understand what is going on here.
> 

OK, your linker is prepending an underscore, and apparently
LEADING_UNDERSCORE was improperly set.  Could you investigate?  There
may also be a C compiler switch for this.  Is this gcc?


> Also prior to compiling depsys, bootsys was already successfully
> created however it did have one oddity. The original Axiom load
> commands like ')load postpar' run during building depsys fails
> with an error message like "'postpar.8' does not exist" (Yes, that's
> the digit 8 after the dot.). If I change the command to include the
> .o like this: ')load postpar.o' everything seems fine and depsys
> is built.
> 
> bootsys itself is actually built form a copy of gcl called 'lisp'
> that is created using compiler::link. The 'lisp' image includes
> several Axiom specific external routines. I.e.
> 
> echo '(compiler::link nil
>  
> "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/build/powerpc-ap
> ple-darwin6.8/bin/lisp" ' \
>               ' (format nil "(progn (let ((*load-path* (cons ~S
> *load-path*))'\
>               ' (si::*load-types* ~S))' \
>               ' (compiler::emit-fn t))' \
>               ' (when (fboundp (quote si::sgc-on))' \
>               ' (si::sgc-on t))' \
>               ' (setq compiler::*default-system-p* t))"' \
>               ' si::*system-directory* (quote (list ".lsp")))' \
>               '
> "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/.././src/lib
> /cfuns-c.o' \
>                '
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/.././src/lib/
> sockio-c.o' \
>                '
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/.././src/lib/
> libspad.a")' \
>  | /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin/gcl

Can you post the output from this?

> 
> If I intervene and make Axiom use the original 'saved_gcl' to build
> 'bootsys' instead of using 'lisp', then the 'postpar.8' problem does
> not occur and gcl finds the .o files anyway, as expected.
> 
> This makes me suspicious that something subtle may be wrong with
> the output of 'compiler:link'. The size of the result images also
> seem curious:
> 
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  18362444 Oct 17 19:08 saved_gcl
> ...
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  13072984 Oct 18 04:01 lisp
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  19159640 Oct 18 04:01 bootsys
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100   7719512 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp.tmp
> -rw-r--r--  1 billpage  100         0 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp_map
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  49588824 Oct 18 03:10 depsys
> 
> Remember that 'lisp' is create by 'compiler::link' from
> saved_gcl plus some externals. Why is it smaller? Also the
> "raw" files were left here don't look "normal" to me.
> 
> A test image of gcl created by
> 
>   $ gcl
>   (si:save-system "test-image")
>   (quit)
> 
> is actually *larger* than the original saved_gcl.
> 
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  23699532 Oct 18 11:07 test-image
> 
> Are all these problems related?
> 
> Any thing you can suggest would be greatly appreciated.
> 

I also suspect compiler::link failure.  It is also odd that
save-system images are so much bigger.  Here is the tiny difference on
Linux:

ls -l /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 9329131 Oct 18 13:43 /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
/usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.7 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 13:40:07
Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (XGCL READLINE BFD UNEXEC)
Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/

>(si::save-system "/tmp/ff")
ls -l /tmp/ff
-rwxr-x--- 1 camm camm 9333267 Oct 18 16:25 /tmp/ff

compiler::link should be no smaller than saved_gcl.  The raw files are
explicitly deleted as named and output by gcc -- the .tmp extension
appears non-std and might be expected to persist.

I'd make two images, one with

(si::save-system "foo")

and the other with

(compiler::link nil "bar")

And then in each, do a few tests, including looking at
si::*load-types*.


Lastly, you all in the axiom world might like to know that I'm about
to release an HOL88 Debian package build atop GCL.  In addition to
providing an alternate theorem proving environment, one also has the
ML language built into the same image for potential use by axiom.
More on this later.

Take care,

> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> > > 
> > > ---------
> > > 
> > > The resulting gcl binary (unixport/saved_gcl) in available here:
> > > 
> > >   http://page.axiom-developer.org/gcl-2.6.8-osx10-20061017.bin
> > > 
> > > I would be very happy if anyone with a MAC OSX machine would try
> > > this version of gcl on their systems and let me know of any
> > > problems.
> > > 
> > > I am currently working on completing the Axiom build based on the
> > > new build-improvements branch.
> > > 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: [sage-devel] Re: MAGMA question
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On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 13:05:52 -0700, Page, Bill <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.c=
a>  =

wrote:
>> Incidentally, SAGE already has a useful shorthand for the
>> above:
>>
>> sage: x =3D polygen(ZZ)
>> sage: parent(x)
>> Univariate Polynomial Ring in x over Integer Ring
>>
>
> I think you need to define the semantics very carefully here.
> As an Axiom user I want to interpret the Sage expressions
> above in a slightly different language. What you mean is that
> x is now a member of a certain class, i.e. it's "parent" and
> polygen is a generator of members of this class. Here the
> value is explicit by the type of the result, i.e. parent, is
> implicit. This is sort of the opposite of the convention used
> in Axiom.
>
> In Sage how would I create a symbol whose value is the Integer
> 1 considered as a Polynomial? E.g. (5) above.

sage: R =3D ZZ['x']
sage: a =3D R(1)
sage: type(a)
<class 'sage.rings.polynomial_element.Polynomial_integer_dense'>
sage: parent(a)
Univariate Polynomial Ring in x over Integer Ring
sage: a
1

You could make 1 in any ring R the same way.

>> Of course, in SAGE you can use PARI polynomials:
>>
>> sage: x =3D pari('x')
>> sage: y =3D pari('y')
>> sage: f =3D x*(y^2+7/3)
>> sage: f^3
>> (y^6 + 7*y^4 + 49/3*y^2 + 343/27)*x^3
>>
>
> And now you can do the same think using Axiom :-)

And now the interface is officially released...

>
> [page@axiom-developer page]$ sage
> --------------------------------------------------------
> | SAGE Version 1.4, Build Date: 2006-10-05             |
> | Distributed under the GNU General Public License V2. |
> --------------------------------------------------------
>
> experimental
>
> sage: x =3D axiom('x')
> sage: y =3D axiom('y')
> sage: f =3D x*(y^2+7/3)
> sage: f^3
>
>    3 6     3 4   49  3 2   343  3
>   x y  + 7x y  + -- x y  + --- x
>                   3         27
> Type: Polynomial Fraction Integer
>
> sage:
>
>> > Anyhow, it is just one pet peeve in MAGMA which seems
>> > easy enough to relieve somehow.
>>
>> What do you think of
>>      x =3D polygen(ZZ)      for x in ZZ[x]
>> and
>>      x =3D polygen()        for a formal x (whose properties
>> are yet to be determined)
>>
>
> What would be the value of parent(x) for the second case?

We haven't decided yet --  I'm thinking something like
     Formal Univariate Polynomial Ring.

William



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Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com> writes:

[...]

| Sigh.  I suppose reconfigured here?  The binutils configure scripts do
| look for msgfmt.  I'm surprised they don't step around a missing one,
| or at least bomb.

It is GNU standard policy to support --disable-nls.  Did you try it?

-- Gaby



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patched. fixing in the next release (--patch-51) --t

===================================================================
It seems that this mail was forgotten. It's a typo in the code
(bookvol5) so a real bug. 

-------- Message transféré --------
De: Vanuxem Grégory <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr>
À: Axiom-Developer <axiom-developer@nongnu.org>
Sujet: Typo in bookvol5 : clearCmdparts
Date: Sun, 01 Oct 2006 19:29:28 +0200

Hello,


@@ -4333,7 +4332,7 @@
                  (spadlet plist (getalist (caar fenv) v))
                  (cond
                   (plist 
-                   (|clearCmdparts| (cons '|propert| (cons v nil)))
+                   (|clearCmdParts| (cons '|propert| (cons v nil)))



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: Questions of Simplification
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C Y wrote:
> I know in general simplification and comparisons of equality are hard
> problems, but I'm afraid I'm not familiar with the formal mathematical
> results that demonstrate this.  Practically the problem is obviously
> difficult, and I have heard on many occasions that equality of two
> expressions is undecidable in general, but I'm curious if these
> questions have some "formal" mathematical analysis behind them.
> Can someone recommend some resources on automatic simplification,
> discussions of what "simplification" means, and issues related to
> undecidable equality cases?  My motivation is this - for some cases
> equality is undecidable, for some it is undecidable in reasonable time,
> for others is is solvable (4^a=2^(2a) being the example in issue 191).
> If equality cannot be decided in general, perhaps there is a way to
> categorize expressions so that it is "decidable if the question is
> decidable", so to speak.  I suppose the question is not terribly
> interesting from a theoretical mathematical standpoint, but if it
> should happen to be possible it would be very useful in CAS work.
> 
> Maybe there isn't any way in general to make this systematic, but if
> not I would like to understand why that's the case.  Any pointers
> appreciated.

I have a web page where I put references to some basic literature
about symbolic computations:

http://www.math.uni.wroc.pl/~p-wyk4/malgo/literat.html

For your question fundamental result is Richardson 1968, where he
proved that when expresion are build from arithmetic operations,
polynonials and trigonometic functions then already the problem
of finding out if a given expression in zero is undecidable.

Note that sound algorithm should _prove_ that expression is zero.
For some expressions we can show that there is no proof that
the expression is zero, but also no proof that the expression is
nonzero. Naive idea would be to classify expression into
provably zero, provably nonzero and and "undecidable". The catch
is that proving that an expression is "undecidable" is even
harder problem that proving that it is zero. So in constructive
direction we are trying to find out large classes of decidable
expressions, but without any hope of completeness (more effort
is likely to give bigger class).

In constructive direction there is again result of Richardson 
(How to recognize zero) where he proposes a method which
hopefully can decide equality of elementary numbers (numbers
produced using algebraic operations, exponential and trigonometric
functions). For elementary functions (functions build from polynomials,
exponential and trigonometric functions using composition and algebraic
operations -- absolute value is excluded) there is Risch (1979) structure
theorem which reduces the problem to constansts.

Axiom problem is that its notion of equality is inconsitent: Axiom
sometimes treats roots (in particular square root) as multivalued,
but in other places assumes that expressions form a field which
requires building abstract algebraic extension (or choosing a single
value). This dual notion of equality is responsible for bug 290:
Risch algorithm requires a field, but since Axion do not apply
simplification to roots we in fact get ring with zero divisors.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Camm Maguire wrote:
> >   && rm -f $file && PATH=../src:$PATH msgfmt -o $file fr.po
> > /bin/sh: msgfmt: command not found
> > make[3]: *** [fr.gmo] Error 127
> > make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
> > make[1]: *** [all] Error 2
> > make: *** [binutils/bfd/libbfd.a] Error 2
>
> Sigh.  I suppose reconfigured here?  The binutils configure scripts do
> look for msgfmt.  I'm surprised they don't step around a missing one,
> or at least bomb.  What does your binutils configure output say in
> this regard?

I got the same error on Amd64 debian unstable:

http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/axiom-developer/2006-09/msg00750.html

I am affraid that '--with-included-gettext' (which IIRC gcl passes to bfd)
it treated as a promise to provide 'msgfmt'.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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> > this is patched in the next release. --t
> 
> Does this sound like Tim's Gold-to-be version is going to be different 
> from Silver???

I've tried to patch silver without success. --t



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To: aldor-l <aldor-l@aldor.org>, peter.broadbery@ntlworld.com,
	axiom-dev <axiom-developer@nongnu.org>
From: Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at>
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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Cannot build aldor interface
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Dear all, especially Peter,

I'm trying to get my aldor interface running again -- new computers, I hate
them.

However, make in src/aldor stops with 


make[1]: Entering directory `/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor'
/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/types.mk:156:
/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/saxiom/spadset.mk
/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:179: ALL SPADSETS  sax0 saxiom
/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:200: (0,0)
/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:204:
/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/sax0/spadset.mk: No such file or directory
/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:200: (1,1)
/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:204:
/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/saxiom/spadset.mk: No such file or directory
/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:106: W: 1 I: 1
/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:107: W:
/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/sax0/spadset.mk
make[1]: *** Keine Regel vorhanden, um das Target 

/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/as//home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/ap/axlit.as

  benoetigt von            

/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/ap/axlit.ap

zu erstellen.  Schluss.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor'
make: *** [all] Fehler 2


Note the strange path in the target: it appears to me that

/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/ap

should not be there, right?

Where is this path created?

I was using

javac --version
Jikes Compiler - Version 1.22 - 3 October 2004

make --version
GNU Make 3.81beta4


Thanks,

Martin




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On 10/19/2006 04:08 AM, root wrote:
>>> this is patched in the next release. --t
>> Does this sound like Tim's Gold-to-be version is going to be different 
>> from Silver???
> 
> I've tried to patch silver without success. --t

With all your problems with SVN it seems like a good idea to mirror your 
tla Gold-To-Be archive publicly at axiom-developer.org so other people 
could care about moving the patches from the tla archive to sourceforge. 
That would free you from some problems, right?

Ralf



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> >>> this is patched in the next release. --t
> >> Does this sound like Tim's Gold-to-be version is going to be different 
> >> from Silver???
> > 
> > I've tried to patch silver without success. --t
> 
> With all your problems with SVN it seems like a good idea to mirror your 
> tla Gold-To-Be archive publicly at axiom-developer.org so other people 
> could care about moving the patches from the tla archive to sourceforge. 
> That would free you from some problems, right?

good point. one the queue for this weekend. --t



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From: C Y <smustudent1@yahoo.com>
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--- Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote:

> I have a web page where I put references to some basic literature
> about symbolic computations:
> 
> http://www.math.uni.wroc.pl/~p-wyk4/malgo/literat.html
> 
> For your question fundamental result is Richardson 1968, where he
> proved that when expresion are build from arithmetic operations,
> polynonials and trigonometic functions then already the problem
> of finding out if a given expression in zero is undecidable.
> 
> Note that sound algorithm should _prove_ that expression is zero.
> For some expressions we can show that there is no proof that
> the expression is zero, but also no proof that the expression is
> nonzero. Naive idea would be to classify expression into
> provably zero, provably nonzero and and "undecidable". The catch
> is that proving that an expression is "undecidable" is even
> harder problem that proving that it is zero. So in constructive
> direction we are trying to find out large classes of decidable
> expressions, but without any hope of completeness (more effort
> is likely to give bigger class).
> 
> In constructive direction there is again result of Richardson 
> (How to recognize zero) where he proposes a method which
> hopefully can decide equality of elementary numbers (numbers
> produced using algebraic operations, exponential and trigonometric
> functions). For elementary functions (functions build from
> polynomials,
> exponential and trigonometric functions using composition and
> algebraic
> operations -- absolute value is excluded) there is Risch (1979)
> structure
> theorem which reduces the problem to constansts.
> 
> Axiom problem is that its notion of equality is inconsitent: Axiom
> sometimes treats roots (in particular square root) as multivalued,
> but in other places assumes that expressions form a field which
> requires building abstract algebraic extension (or choosing a single
> value). This dual notion of equality is responsible for bug 290:
> Risch algorithm requires a field, but since Axion do not apply
> simplification to roots we in fact get ring with zero divisors.
> 
> -- 
>                               Waldek Hebisch
> hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 
> 


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From: C Y <smustudent1@yahoo.com>
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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: Questions of Simplification (whoops)
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Whoops - sorry about the blank reply.

--- Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote:

> I have a web page where I put references to some basic literature
> about symbolic computations:
> 
> http://www.math.uni.wroc.pl/~p-wyk4/malgo/literat.html

Good list!  Thanks!

> For your question fundamental result is Richardson 1968, where he
> proved that when expresion are build from arithmetic operations,
> polynonials and trigonometic functions then already the problem
> of finding out if a given expression in zero is undecidable.

I'll see if I can dig that up at a college library.  It sounds like the
information in that paper should be part of the eventual Axiom literate
documentation on simplification.

> Note that sound algorithm should _prove_ that expression is zero.
> For some expressions we can show that there is no proof that
> the expression is zero, but also no proof that the expression is
> nonzero.

Blegh.

> Naive idea would be to classify expression into
> provably zero, provably nonzero and and "undecidable". The catch
> is that proving that an expression is "undecidable" is even
> harder problem that proving that it is zero.

Wait - if you can't prove that it is zero, isn't the only possible
proof one that it is undecidable?  You mean that an undecidability
proof in the case of an undecidable problem is more complex than a
proof that something is zero, when something can be proven to be zero?

> So in constructive
> direction we are trying to find out large classes of decidable
> expressions, but without any hope of completeness (more effort
> is likely to give bigger class).

So classes of undecidable problems might have a solution found, but not
by any algorithmic technique?

> In constructive direction there is again result of Richardson 
> (How to recognize zero) where he proposes a method which
> hopefully can decide equality of elementary numbers (numbers
> produced using algebraic operations, exponential and trigonometric
> functions). For elementary functions (functions build from
> polynomials, exponential and trigonometric functions using
> composition and algebraic operations -- absolute value is excluded)
> there is Risch (1979) structure theorem which reduces the problem to
> constansts.

Interesting!  I also need to scare up the original Risch papers .
 
> Axiom problem is that its notion of equality is inconsitent: Axiom
> sometimes treats roots (in particular square root) as multivalued,
> but in other places assumes that expressions form a field which
> requires building abstract algebraic extension (or choosing a single
> value). This dual notion of equality is responsible for bug 290:
> Risch algorithm requires a field, but since Axion do not apply
> simplification to roots we in fact get ring with zero divisors.

Hmm. Is "abstract algebraic extension" similar to the discussion on
indeterminates?

Cheers, and thanks!

CY

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unfortunately, I still can't get it to run:

/users/rubey/axiom/mnt/linux/bin/AXIOMsys: error while loading shared
libraries: libreadline.so.4: cannot open shared object  No such file or directory

On my system libreadline.so is there, however. (without .4)

Do I really have to drive the sysadmin crazy?

Martin





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This happens to me in Arch Linux also. They distribute a newer
libreadline.so.5. Try a syslink to libreadline or libreadline.so.5 if
you have it. That solved the problem for me.

Regards,

Alfredo

On 19 Oct 2006 14:17:50 +0200, Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at> wrote:
> unfortunately, I still can't get it to run:
>
> /users/rubey/axiom/mnt/linux/bin/AXIOMsys: error while loading shared
> libraries: libreadline.so.4: cannot open shared object  No such file or directory
>
> On my system libreadline.so is there, however. (without .4)
>
> Do I really have to drive the sysadmin crazy?
>
> Martin
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Axiom-developer mailing list
> Axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiom-developer
>



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C Y wrote:
> --- Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> wrote:
> > Note that sound algorithm should _prove_ that expression is zero.
> > For some expressions we can show that there is no proof that
> > the expression is zero, but also no proof that the expression is
> > nonzero.
> 
> Blegh.
> 
> > Naive idea would be to classify expression into
> > provably zero, provably nonzero and and "undecidable". The catch
> > is that proving that an expression is "undecidable" is even
> > harder problem that proving that it is zero.
> 
> Wait - if you can't prove that it is zero, isn't the only possible
> proof one that it is undecidable?  You mean that an undecidability
> proof in the case of an undecidable problem is more complex than a
> proof that something is zero, when something can be proven to be zero?
>

If you start proving that expression are "undecidable" you get four
classes of expressions: provably zero, provably nozero, 
provably "undecidable" and the rest ("doubly undecidable").

There is a simple "algorithm" to prove that an expression is zero:
just start writing down all posible proofs. If the expression is
zero you will eventually find the proof. Similarly if an expression
is nonzero. I wrote algorithm in quotes because such procedure
finishes only if get the answer: if an expression is "undecidable"
the procedure will loop infintely long. Note that the problem is
really in recognizing that expression is "undecidable": if you
know that expression is "decidable" you can start enumerating
proofs and stop once you get one of the answers (zero or
nozero). You try to escalate: start another procedure that will
try to prove that expression is "undecidable" and stop once
you get one of the answers (zero, nozero or "undecidable")
but the point is that you will always have a part that
your procedure can not handle.

> > So in constructive
> > direction we are trying to find out large classes of decidable
> > expressions, but without any hope of completeness (more effort
> > is likely to give bigger class).
> 
> So classes of undecidable problems might have a solution found, but not
> by any algorithmic technique?
>

In math we have assumptions and consequences. Interesting theories
must be "open": if you add more assumptions you get more consequences.
More assumptions means higher risk that the assumptions are wrong...

I do not know what you mean by "might have a solution found, but not
by any algorithmic technique"? The only nonalgorithmic technique
of "solving" _algorithmic_ problem that I know is adding
assumptions. But in math we do not add assumptions lightly. In
fact, it is belived that all existing math may be handled inside
classical Zermelo-Frankel set theory (some theories want stronger
assumptions to allow more elegance and convenience, but less elegant
reformulations inside classical set theory should be possible). Also
a few attempts to extend Zermelo-Frankel theory failed (extended
theory contained contradiction).

Working with fixed assumptions you have a negative result: there
is no best algorithm. You have also a "positive" one: for each
algorithm there is a better one.

I think that one should have some distance to undecidability.
Implementer should know basic facts to avoid searching for
a simple "universal" algorithm. But already decidable
problems may require too much resources to solve. So one can
only handle "easy" cases of decidable problems. But if
you look at subcases of undecidable problem it also may have
easily decidable ones. For example deciding if a program ever
stops is hard, deciding if it stops in first million of steps is easy
(just run it and interrupt if it runs too long).

> > Axiom problem is that its notion of equality is inconsitent: Axiom
> > sometimes treats roots (in particular square root) as multivalued,
> > but in other places assumes that expressions form a field which
> > requires building abstract algebraic extension (or choosing a single
> > value). This dual notion of equality is responsible for bug 290:
> > Risch algorithm requires a field, but since Axion do not apply
> > simplification to roots we in fact get ring with zero divisors.
> 
> Hmm. Is "abstract algebraic extension" similar to the discussion on
> indeterminates?
> 

Related but different: if you have a subfieled L of complex numbers
and an irreducible polynomial P over L and a is a root of P, then
there is a smallest subfield of complex numbers (denoted by L(a))
containing both a and L. If you have two different roots a_1 and a_2
you get two different fields L(a_1) and L(a_2). But the two fields
are isomorphic. In other words, the internal structure of L(a)
is independent of the choice of root (it depends only on P). When
I talk about "abstract algebraic extension" I mean any field
isomorphic to L(a). There is an easy procedure (implemented in
Axiom) to build one such field and as long as you stay in a
single field the result remain valid for true L(a). The trouble
begin if you ask how a interacts with things outside L(a).
Theoreticaly this is not a big problem: you can replace multiple
algebraic extensions (say adding sqrt(2) and sqrt(3)) by a
single one. But Axiom can not decide if it should add sqrt(6)
or maybe -sqrt(6). Note that sqrt(2)*sqrt(3) problem is an easy
case which could be easily resolved within existing framework.
But already sqrt(x)*sqrt(x-1) is tough: if you take real
interpretation then sqrt(x-1) is undefined (or imaginary if you
prefer) for x < 1. So sqrt(x)*sqrt(x-1) is undefined (or negative
if you allow imaginaries) for negative x, but sqrt(x*(x-1)) is
well defined positive number for negative x.

Indeterminates can bridge the to words: single indeterminate
could represent all roots of a polynomial. For each posible
choice one could form apropriate algebraic extension and get
well defined result. At the end one should recombine all
choices into a single indeterminate representing final
answer.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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On Thu, 2006-10-19 at 09:40 +0200, Martin Rubey wrote:
> Dear all, especially Peter,
> 
> I'm trying to get my aldor interface running again -- new computers, I hate
> them.
> 
> However, make in src/aldor stops with 
> 
> 
> make[1]: Entering directory `/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor'
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/types.mk:156:
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/saxiom/spadset.mk
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:179: ALL SPADSETS  sax0 saxiom
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:200: (0,0)
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:204:
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/sax0/spadset.mk: No such file or directory
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:200: (1,1)
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:204:
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/saxiom/spadset.mk: No such file or directory
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:106: W: 1 I: 1
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Make.rules:107: W:
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/sax0/spadset.mk
> make[1]: *** Keine Regel vorhanden, um das Target 
> 
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/as//home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/ap/axlit.as
> 
>   benoetigt von            
> 
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/ap/axlit.ap
> 
> zu erstellen.  Schluss.
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor'
> make: *** [all] Fehler 2
> 
> 
> Note the strange path in the target: it appears to me that
> 
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/ap
> 
> should not be there, right?
> 
> Where is this path created?
> 

Well, it's more that /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/ap shouldn't be there.
The rule that defines the dependency is in libaxiom.mk.

$(AX0_AP_FILES): $(MID)/ap/%.ap: $(IN)/as/%.as  $(MID)/ap/.dir

Which suggests a make bug, since in this case, % = 'axlit', not the full file name.  
Which version of make are you using?

I can't debug it at the moment, as I changed machine recently, and in the process of 
redoing the aldor code without using java, and a slightly saner makefile framework.

The 'not java' bit works, but I need a bit of free time to sort out the build process.

Peter





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"Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com> writes:

> This happens to me in Arch Linux also. They distribute a newer
> libreadline.so.5. Try a syslink to libreadline or libreadline.so.5 if
> you have it. That solved the problem for me.

I'm not root :-(

Martin




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Sorry, I forgot :-(

On 19 Oct 2006 22:38:01 +0200, Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at> wrote:
> "Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com> writes:
>
> > This happens to me in Arch Linux also. They distribute a newer
> > libreadline.so.5. Try a syslink to libreadline or libreadline.so.5 if
> > you have it. That solved the problem for me.
>
> I'm not root :-(
>
> Martin
>
>



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Dear Axiom Developers,

Sage is a radical new idea in computer algebra system design which
aims to integrate the many freely available open source computer
algebra packages (and some commercial packages if you own a licensed
copy) into a powerful unified environment with a common user language
and interface.

Thanks to the seemingly tireless efforts of William Stein, the lead
developer of Sage:

http://sage.math.washington.edu/

who helped untangle and reweave the code that I hacked during the
recent Sage Days 2 workshop, the Axiom interface is now available
in Sage version 1.4.1.1!

If you already have Axiom installed, you should be able to install
Sage from

http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage
 
and immediately access Axiom in Sage. (as well as many other computer
algebra packages). You will also be able to use Axiom interactively
via the Sage Notebook on your desktop.

If you don't have Axiom installed see:

http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomBinaries

If you have an earlier version of Sage, you can use standard methods
in Sage to upgrade to the newest version:

  sage -upgrade

Plus you can now try Axiom online on the Sage public server. See for
example:

http://sage-notebook.axiom-developer.org/106

You can easily create your own new worksheets and experiment with
Axiom and the other computer algebra systems integrated with Sage at
this web site.

Please find out more about Sage and help us improve this new Axiom
user interface. The interface is already quite usable but this is
only the first version and we have much more work to do to expose
Axiom's powerful features, such as the Axiom library compilers SPAD
and Aldor, Axiom's graphics, and Axiom's library browser to all
Sage users. There is also some interesting research to be done on the
subject of how best to integrate Axiom's static strongly typed
programming language with the Sage user language which is based on
the dynamic strong types of Python.

Enjoy!

Regards,
Bill Page.

On Wed, 18 Oct 2006 18:06:50 -0700, Bill Page wrote:

> [about problems installing Axiom on the Sage server]
>
> I started on this in my /home/page directory. GCL compiles
> without problems. I tried using the newest experimental
> version of the build scripts for Axiom but as usual ran into
> some problems that will have to be fixed for the architecture
> of your machine. (Thanks for the opportunity to test this on
> a 64-bit "not-quite-Debian" non-Intel multiprocessor platform
> :-). Because of other commitments, it might be a couple more
> days before I can get back to this. I'll let you know when
> I have an operational version.

On October 18, 2006 10:52 PM William Stein wrote:

Thanks.

I asked Bobby, and he found online that the axiom for Ubuntu 5.10
is broken. However, Axiom for the current 6.1 ? version of ubuntu
works.  I haven't upgraded sage.math to the current version of
Ubuntu yet though.  In any case, I think it will be better to have
it built from source, like you're doing.

The chroot jailed online open SAGE notebook has a different OS,
and I was able to install the standard "apt-get axiom" into it.
Now you can use Axiom at:

         http://sage.math.washington.edu:8100/106

Unfortunately, I messed up with the axiom.py that is included
with sage-1.4.1, somehow (it's OK in the notebook, though).
I'm uploading a sage-1.4.1.1 right now with the correct version
included...

William





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Le jeudi 19 octobre 2006 =E0 14:17 +0200, Martin Rubey a =E9crit :
> unfortunately, I still can't get it to run:
>=20
> /users/rubey/axiom/mnt/linux/bin/AXIOMsys: error while loading shared
> libraries: libreadline.so.4: cannot open shared object  No such file or=
 directory
>=20
> On my system libreadline.so is there, however. (without .4)

This is strange... A temporary workaround is to create a symlink to
libreadline.so named libreadline.so.4 in a directory and define
LD_LIBRARY_PATH to include this directory, for example in bash:
'export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=3D/a/directory/where/I/have/write/privilege'
Apparently LD_LIBRARY_PATH is used in addition to the existing lib paths
but may be the correct way is to add all existing lib paths to this
variable.

Greg




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Thanks for the tip, William.

-----Original Message-----
From: William Stein [mailto:wstein@gmail.com]=20
Sent: October 19, 2006 6:12 PM
To: Bill Page
Subject: Re: FW: axiom on sage.math

Bill,

You could add that if somebody types

   sage:   notebook(system=3D"axiom")

to get an Axiom notebook (basically all cells automatically have %axiom =
at =20
the top).

William

On Thu, 19 Oct 2006 14:26:27 -0700, Bill Page wrote:

> Dear Axiom Developers,
>
> Sage is a radical new idea in computer algebra system design which
> aims to integrate the many freely available open source computer
> algebra packages (and some commercial packages if you own a licensed
> copy) into a powerful unified environment with a common user language
> and interface.
>
> Thanks to the seemingly tireless efforts of William Stein, the lead
> developer of Sage:
>
> http://sage.math.washington.edu/
>
> who helped untangle and reweave the code that I hacked during the
> recent Sage Days 2 workshop, the Axiom interface is now available
> in Sage version 1.4.1.1!
>
> If you already have Axiom installed, you should be able to install
> Sage from
>
> http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage
>
> and immediately access Axiom in Sage. (as well as many other computer
> algebra packages). You will also be able to use Axiom interactively
> via the Sage Notebook on your desktop.
>
> If you don't have Axiom installed see:
>
> http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomBinaries
>
> If you have an earlier version of Sage, you can use standard methods
> in Sage to upgrade to the newest version:
>
>   sage -upgrade
>
> Plus you can now try Axiom online on the Sage public server. See for
> example:
>
> http://sage-notebook.axiom-developer.org/106
>
> You can easily create your own new worksheets and experiment with
> Axiom and the other computer algebra systems integrated with Sage at
> this web site.
>
> Please find out more about Sage and help us improve this new Axiom
> user interface. The interface is already quite usable but this is
> only the first version and we have much more work to do to expose
> Axiom's powerful features, such as the Axiom library compilers SPAD
> and Aldor, Axiom's graphics, and Axiom's library browser to all
> Sage users. There is also some interesting research to be done on the
> subject of how best to integrate Axiom's static strongly typed
> programming language with the Sage user language which is based on
> the dynamic strong types of Python.
>
> Enjoy!
>
> Regards,
> Bill Page.





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To: Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] yet another problem with dependencies
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Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at> writes:

| "Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com> writes:
| 
| > This happens to me in Arch Linux also. They distribute a newer
| > libreadline.so.5. Try a syslink to libreadline or libreadline.so.5 if
| > you have it. That solved the problem for me.
| 
| I'm not root :-(

Indeed, that is an important point we must keep in mind.

-- Gaby



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Misleading documentation
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src/interp/Makfile.pamphlet contains misleading information about
the TRANOBJS group of files. The following patch (at least partially)
correct this information:

--- pp/build-improvements/src/interp/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-14 19:58:17.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements-1012.nn2/src/interp/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-20 02:57:49.642820264 +0200
@@ -308,9 +308,19 @@
 autoload_objects += $(BFOBJS)
 
 @
-The {\bf TRANOBJS} list contains files only used by the {\bf boot}
+The {\bf TRANOBJS} list contains files used by Spad to Aldor convertor.
+The files probably are also used by the {\bf boot}
 to Common Lisp translator and are probably never used by anyone
-but the developers. These files should probably be autoloaded.
+but the developers.
+
+When a user requests converting a file from Spad to Aldor the
+function
+[[spad2AsTranslatorAutoloadOnceTrigger]] is called triggering
+load of this group of files. Loading [[$TRANOBJS]] in turn replaces
+many compiler functions by versions contain in this files.
+ These files should probably be autoloaded
+(at least [[${AUTO}/wi1.$(OBJEXT)]] and [[${AUTO}/wi2.$(OBJEXT)]]
+(which replace compiler functions) {\em must} be autoloaded).
 <<environment>>=
 TRANOBJS= ${AUTO}/wi1.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}/wi2.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}/pspad1.$(OBJEXT) \
 	  ${AUTO}/pspad2.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}/mark.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}/nspadaux.$(OBJEXT) \


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] database fixes
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Bill Page wrote:
> > Bill Page wrote:
> > > ... In a literate program the document contains the code so it
> > > certainly "repeats the code" in that sense. The code illustrates
> > > and implements the ideas described in the document. Code and
> > > documentation are not two separate things.
> > >
> >
> 
> On Monday, October 16, 2006 11:02 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote: 
> > Let us look at an example.  I wrote:
> > 
> > ------------<start example>------------
> > ....
> >    ; Clean old data
> >    (do-symbols (symbol)
> >       (when (get symbol 'database)
> >          (setf (get symbol 'database) nil)))
> >    (setq *allconstructors* nil)
> > ...
> > ------------<end example>------------
> > 
> > Do you think that:
> > 
> > ------------<start example>------------
> > ...
> >    <<Clean old data>>
> > ....
> > To clean old data we loop over all symbols from [[boot]]
> > package and reset [[boot::database]] property to [[nil]].
> > We also rest [boot::*allconstructors*]] to [[nil]].
> > <<Clean old data>>=
> >    (do-symbols (symbol)
> >       (when (get symbol 'database)
> >          (setf (get symbol 'database) nil)))
> >    (setq *allconstructors* nil)
> > ------------<end example>------------
> > 
> > is better (I admit that as a reader I find the first version
> > much better).
> > 
> 
> When you say "as a reader", I wonder what you are reading:
> the Lisp code or the dvi document that you generated from the
> pamphlet file? In terms of creating a document that can be read
> while sitting in a comfortable chair with your feet warmed by
> the fireplace, I think your 2nd example is much better. :-)

Of course when reading paper copy first version is even more
preferable -- searching electionic verion is easier so one
can somewhat tolerate jumping from labels to corresponding
chunks. Reading paper copy one wants thing in linear order,
to minimize searching of cross-references.

> Of course to make good sense you must also consider the overall
> structure of the document. The paragraph starting "To clean
> old data" should be located in the section of the document where
> you describe why it is desirable to clean up the database in the
> first place, i.e. including at least some of the text in the
> email that you sent introducing this patch.
> 

Hmm, I do not think information from the e-mail belongs to the
document -- for example writing a paper I discard many alternatives
and failed attempts and publish only final version. IMHO information
about specific problem belongs to the ChangeLog (in form of a
pointer to the message). Now if you think that what I wrote in the
email needs extra record or additions I may register a bug.

> I probably would not have written:
> 
>   We also reset [boot::*allconstructors*]] to [[nil]].
> 
> Instead the text should say why we do that.

You, Gaby and Tim ask way. I am not sure if I can give good
explanation. Basically, database is a single logical entity
spread out into few variable and symbol properties (this is
actually quite well explained in daase.lisp.pamplet).  All
parts of database must be kept in sync.  Now, why my specific
code?  The code follows database structure, the best explanation
I can give just repats database description.

I can think of to changes to documantation: one is to say that
all five openxxxx routines must be called together (because
otherwise database gets out of sync). The second is that there
is no need to have cleanup in browseOpen, because interpOpen
should have already cleaned up old data.

> > version control detects conflicts. One has still manually resolve
> > them. If Tim permute hunks in one way and I in another way then
> > resolving conflicts will require some work.
> 
> Yes, but there are some very good tools for doing this and the
> chances of this happening (usually) are not very high. Of course
> if you anticipate a major reorganization of the file, then it might
> be a good idea to check with Tim or Gaby first, but that should
> not stop you from contributing your work to the repository. If
> everyone hesitates and only one person at a time can work on the
> system, progress will be very slow.
> 

The point is that I did what I consider a self-contained change 
(as I explained I do not think that _this_ change needs extra
documentation).  While it is good to improve documentation
part, that would be a separate change.  Keeping first change
private and accumulating changes both slows progress and
increases probability of conflicts during merge.

Maybe another point: Axiom has parts that really need better
documentation -- Bill Burge parser would be first example,
Spad compiler the second. Compared to them daase.lisp.pamphlet
contains strightforward and well documented code.  Also
daase.lisp.pamphlet seem to work quite well compared to other
parts of Axiom, so I see little reason to change it _now_ (except
for this single patch which affects other things that I want
to do) -- other parts need more care. 

> > > > 3) For me diff is a very important tool and to make my work
> > > >    easier (or even possible) I want to do minimal changes.
> > > 
> > > If you wish to run diff on only the code you should run notangle
> > > first to extract just the code from each literate document
> > > (pamphlet).
> > >
> > 
> > If I have to notangle files before doing work on then, then why
> > this talk about literate programming?
> 
> When you said "diff is a very important tool" I understood that
> as implying that you were primarily interested in comparing the
> program code in one file with the program code in another file.
> 
> > OTOH if I work on a pamphlet, but to do diff I must first run
> > notangle, then this is significant extra burden (yes, I know
> > aliases and scripts, but this is still significant extra burden).
> >
> 
> Certainly it is possible to use diff on pamphlet files but in
> some cases the result might include more than you are interested
> in if someone has taken the time to add a lot of new (important!)
> documentation to the file. Just like sometimes it is interesting
> to run diff on a latex file, but most times not, because what we
> are (usually) interested in when writing a latex document is the
> final result not the details of source line indentation and coding.
> 

I routinely run diff of latex files: when changing documents
I want to avoid re-reading old parts and concentrate on changes.

> > The patch I wrote changed the pamphlet file.  I admit that I did
> > not use dvi viewer to check formatting, but since the parts I
> > changed follow textual format using only text terminal should be
> > OK.  
> 
> Actually I agree. Your original patch was not so bad - it is
> just that it did not add any explanation to the document itself.
> It improved the program but did not improve the document.
>

I respectfully disagree: my change added extra explanations (and
corrected a wrong explanation). Just is was a very small
improvement (both to code and document aspect).
 
> I would say that the main point of using a dvi viewer is not just
> to check the formatting, but rather to focus on the document the
> way new reader of the document would. You can ask yourself: Does
> this document describe properly what this program is doing and why
> I made the changes that I did?

Well my latex workflow is as follows: I compose text at a tty,
I use xdvi to check formatting, for deeper revision I print
the document.  When I have a lot of formulas I use xdvi much
more, but for text I prefer tty.  Tty have two advantages:
first is that I find tty fonts more plasant to read, second
is that knowing that text will be reformated I can better
concentrate on meaning.

> 
> Maybe the change in attitude from "documenting a program" to
> "writing a literate program" is rather subtle. If you read the
> literate programming news groups and web sites you will see that
> many people have tried to explain this difference many times. So
> I am not so confident that my attempt to do it again will be much
> clearer. If not, I am sorry.
> 

I have read Knuth literate programming text, later I read TeX (the
program) and (at similar time) time Andrew Tanenbaum "Operatin Systems"
which contained Minix sources.  Frankly, I find Tanenbaum's book
better document then TeX.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 




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do a symbolic link from libreadline.so.4 to libreadline.so

t



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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
To: "'Waldek Hebisch'" <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] database fixes
Date: Fri, 20 Oct 2006 01:18:42 -0400
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On October 19, 2006 10:38 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> ...
> Bill Page wrote: 
> > When you say "as a reader", I wonder what you are reading:
> > the Lisp code or the dvi document that you generated from the
> > pamphlet file? In terms of creating a document that can be read
> > while sitting in a comfortable chair with your feet warmed by
> > the fireplace, I think your 2nd example is much better. :-)
> 
> Of course when reading paper copy first version is even more
> preferable -- searching electronic version is easier so one
> can somewhat tolerate jumping from labels to corresponding
> chunks. Reading paper copy one wants thing in linear order,
> to minimize searching of cross-references.
>

As I suspected, you are not thinking about reading a final
document, you are thinking only about reading the source.

Thus you would prefer that journals be printed in the original raw
LaTeX source format, omitting everything outside of \begin{equation}
... \end{equation}? Why bother to go to all that trouble to typeset
it, generate tables of contents, footnotes, equation references and
indexes when it is so much easier to read the equations in the
linear form? ;)

> > Of course to make good sense you must also consider the overall
> > structure of the document. The paragraph starting "To clean
> > old data" should be located in the section of the document where
> > you describe why it is desirable to clean up the database in the
> > first place, i.e. including at least some of the text in the
> > email that you sent introducing this patch.
> > 
> 
> Hmm, I do not think information from the e-mail belongs to
> the document -- for example writing a paper I discard many
> alternatives and failed attempts and publish only final version.

Thus you throw away the most important part! :-( One of the goals of
open source software development is collaboration - allowing many
people to contribute simultaneously to the same project. To do this
it is important to "release early and release often". In fact this
is a common motto of most open source projects. It means that we *do*
publish the many alternatives and failed attempts as well as the
"final version". Very few projects ever reach the stage of a final
version.

Axiom's pamphlet files should be living, changing things that reflect
our current state of knowledge about the system as well as containing
the actual code for the system.

The idea of publishing only final versions of things is obsolete.

> IMHO information about specific problem belongs to the ChangeLog
> (in form of a pointer to the message). Now if you think that what
> I wrote in the email needs extra record or additions I may register
> a bug.
> 

I have no objection to including such information in the ChangeLog
and capturing the detailed change history in a version control system.
But that is not an alternative to updating the pamphlet file itself.

We have a serious problem right now. Much of the most interesting
work on Axiom over the last 3 years is recording only in the email
archive of this email list. Many people have written many interesting
emails about Axiom. But it is embedded along with a lot of other
material that is not so interesting or of any lasting value. Yes
it is possible to search this linear chronology by keywords, author etc.
But in general it is hard to find the "good things" when you need to.

Tim Daly is the only person who has made a serious attempt to distill
what he has written into documentation that is available in pamphlet
files. He has even attempted to collect some of the useful material
from other people's emails but it is a difficult task to find and
extract and elaborate on just the right parts.

In some respects email is just "too easy"... on the other hand
people usually do find it much easier to write when their audience
is will defined - their email respondee and people presumed to be
reading the exchange from the public email list.

In my case I have frequently tried to extract such material and
format it for access on the Axiom wiki web site. In a way the wiki
web site represents an intermediate and alternate form of such a
"living" pamphlet document.

I am afraid that by neglecting to update the explanations in the
pamphlet files you are modifying you are condemning the interesting
arts of your emails to the same fate.

> > I probably would not have written:
> > 
> >   We also reset [boot::*allconstructors*]] to [[nil]].
> > 
> > Instead the text should say why we do that.
> 
> You, Gaby and Tim ask way. I am not sure if I can give good
> explanation.

So far you have given a better explanations in your email than
anything that I can find in the existing daase.lisp.pamphlet file.

> Basically, database is a single logical entity spread out into
> few variable and symbol properties (this is actually quite well
> explained in daase.lisp.pamplet).  All parts of database must
> be kept in sync.  Now, why my specific code?  The code follows
> database structure, the best explanation I can give just repeats
> database description.

No, not why your specific code. Instead, why you are writing such
code in the first place. This is better explained in your email
than in your final patch to daase.lisp.pamphlet. Even the above
paragraph of your email contains this useful information.

> 
> I can think of two changes to documentation: one is to say that
> all five openxxxx routines must be called together (because
> otherwise database gets out of sync). The second is that there
> is no need to have cleanup in browseOpen, because interpOpen
> should have already cleaned up old data.
> 

Yes, please include the comment also in the pamphlet file.

> ... 
> The point is that I did what I consider a self-contained change 
> (as I explained I do not think that _this_ change needs extra
> documentation).  While it is good to improve documentation
> part, that would be a separate change.  Keeping first change
> private and accumulating changes both slows progress and
> increases probability of conflicts during merge.
> 

I do not think you (or anyone else) should keep any of their work
private. I am very glad that you submitted a patch when you did.
I just think that you have much more that you could contribute
to improving the Axiom pamphlet files when it comes to the non-
code parts.

> Maybe another point: Axiom has parts that really need better
> documentation -- Bill Burge parser would be first example,
> Spad compiler the second. Compared to them daase.lisp.pamphlet
> contains straightforward and well documented code.  Also
> daase.lisp.pamphlet seem to work quite well compared to other
> parts of Axiom, so I see little reason to change it _now_ (except
> for this single patch which affects other things that I want
> to do) -- other parts need more care. 
>

The reason to change it now is that you understand it now. And
then other people will read it and begin to understand it. It
will save them time since they will not have to repeat your effort
of analysing the code and deducing it's purpose etc. And then they
will be able to direct their efforts to make contributions to those
"other parts that need more care".
 
> ...
> > 
> > Certainly it is possible to use diff on pamphlet files but in
> > some cases the result might include more than you are interested
> > in if someone has taken the time to add a lot of new (important!)
> > documentation to the file. Just like sometimes it is interesting
> > to run diff on a latex file, but most times not, because what we
> > are (usually) interested in when writing a latex document is the
> > final result not the details of source line indentation and coding.
> > 
> 
> I routinely run diff of latex files: when changing documents
> I want to avoid re-reading old parts and concentrate on changes.
>

You are still talking about reading the source of the document and
not about reading the presentation form of the document itself. It is
expected in a successful literate programming project however that
most people would begin by reading the actual literate documents in
their final format as dvi or pdf files or in printed form like in a
journal or a book.
 
> > > The patch I wrote changed the pamphlet file.  I admit that I did
> > > not use dvi viewer to check formatting, but since the parts I
> > > changed follow textual format using only text terminal should be
> > > OK.  
> > 
> > Actually I agree. Your original patch was not so bad - it is
> > just that it did not add any explanation to the document itself.
> > It improved the program but did not improve the document.
> >
> 
> I respectfully disagree: my change added extra explanations (and
> corrected a wrong explanation). Just is was a very small
> improvement (both to code and document aspect).
>

I am sorry. Perhaps I missed that part.
  
> > I would say that the main point of using a dvi viewer is not just
> > to check the formatting, but rather to focus on the document the
> > way new reader of the document would. You can ask yourself: Does
> > this document describe properly what this program is doing and why
> > I made the changes that I did?
> 
> Well my latex workflow is as follows: I compose text at a tty,
> I use xdvi to check formatting, for deeper revision I print
> the document.  When I have a lot of formulas I use xdvi much
> more, but for text I prefer tty.  Tty have two advantages:
> first is that I find tty fonts more pleasant to read, second
> is that knowing that text will be reformatted I can better
> concentrate on meaning.
>

Is this also how you would like to read other people's work in their
published articles?
 
> > 
> > Maybe the change in attitude from "documenting a program" to
> > "writing a literate program" is rather subtle. If you read the
> > literate programming news groups and web sites you will see that
> > many people have tried to explain this difference many times. So
> > I am not so confident that my attempt to do it again will be much
> > clearer. If not, I am sorry.
> > 
> 
> I have read Knuth literate programming text, later I read TeX
> (the program) and (at similar time) time Andrew Tanenbaum 
> "Operating Systems" which contained Minix sources.  Frankly, I
> find Tanenbaum's book better document then TeX.
> 

As I said, I did not really expect to be able to convince you about
the value of literate programming. :-(

And I agree that it's full actual value is yet to be proven in any
major computer programming project (except perhaps TeX). There are
other approaches to documenting programs such as javadoc, aldordoc
and related methods of trying to extract useful documentation from an
automated analysis of program structured and well-structured comments
embedded in the code. Or even just the discipline of attempting to
write the program code itself in a manner that is simple and easy for
a human being to read (within the constraints of the syntax of a
particular programming language). But Knuth's literate programming
methodology (as generalized by Norman Ramsey's "noweb" is what
Tim Daly chose as the preferred methodology for Axiom when he first
made Axiom available as an open source project. I think this bold
step deserves at least our "best effort" to see if such literate
programming can really make a long term contribution sometime within
the current "30 year horizon".

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Have you tried to set your environment variable

echo $LD_LIBRARY_PATH

to some nicer value. It is like PATH, so you can add a lokal directory 
and say

cd $HOME
mkdir lib
cd lib
ln -s /path/to/libreadline.so.5 libreadline.so.4
export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=$HOME/lib

Should help...(I hope). You don't need to be root.

Ralf

On 10/19/2006 10:38 PM, Martin Rubey wrote:
> "Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com> writes:
> 
>> This happens to me in Arch Linux also. They distribute a newer
>> libreadline.so.5. Try a syslink to libreadline or libreadline.so.5 if
>> you have it. That solved the problem for me.
> 
> I'm not root :-(
> 
> Martin



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: Cannot build aldor interface
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Dear Peter, Ralf

I just deleted the src/aldor directory and replaced it with a fresh one.=20
(make clean doesn't seem to work....)

Now I get a different error message. The build stops with

Output written on Sort.java.dvi (19 pages, 25524 bytes).
Transcript written on Sort.java.log.
(javac -d /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor
/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Sort.java)
make[1]: *** Keine Regel vorhanden, um das Target =C2=BB/home/martin/Golden=
Axiom/int/aldor/typelist=C2=AB,
  ben=C3=B6tigt von =C2=BB/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/saxiom/spadset=
.mk=C2=AB, zu
erstellen.  Schluss.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor'
make: *** [all] Fehler 2

my make is=20

make -v
GNU Make 3.81beta4

my javac is

javac -version
Jikes Compiler - Version 1.22 - 3 October 2004
Copyright (C) IBM Corporation 1997-2003, 2004.

Ralf, maybe you could send me the contents of your src/aldor directory after
building. Maybe I can spot a difference.

> I can't debug it at the moment, as I changed machine recently, and in the=
 process of=20
> redoing the aldor code without using java, and a slightly saner makefile
> framework.
> The 'not java' bit works, but I need a bit of free time to sort out the b=
uild process.

Oh, great

Martin




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Dear Peter, Ralf,

I just realised that I forgot to delete the already built files under mnt/

So, with a freshly built axiom, make in /src/aldor fails with (sorry, that'=
s a
different machine but with the same distribution)

mkdir -p /local/scratch/axiom/int/aldor/make
touch -t 199901010000 /local/scratch/axiom/int/aldor/make/.dir
mkdir -p /local/scratch/axiom/int/aldor
touch -t 199901010000 /local/scratch/axiom/int/aldor/.dir
SPADSET MK: all_spadsets.mk
make[1]: *** Keine Regel, um =C2=BB/local/scratch/axiom/int/aldor/all_spad_=
cats.mk=C2=AB zu erstellen.  Schluss.
make[1]: Leaving directory `/local/scratch/axiom/src/aldor'
make: *** [all] Fehler 2


I hope I can fix this somehow,

Martin


Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at> writes:

> Dear Peter, Ralf
>=20
> I just deleted the src/aldor directory and replaced it with a fresh one.=
=20
> (make clean doesn't seem to work....)
>=20
> Now I get a different error message. The build stops with
>=20
> Output written on Sort.java.dvi (19 pages, 25524 bytes).
> Transcript written on Sort.java.log.
> (javac -d /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor
> /home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor/Sort.java)
> make[1]: *** Keine Regel vorhanden, um das Target =C2=BB/home/martin/Gold=
enAxiom/int/aldor/typelist=C2=AB,
>   ben=C3=B6tigt von =C2=BB/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/int/aldor/saxiom/spads=
et.mk=C2=AB, zu
> erstellen.  Schluss.
> make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/martin/GoldenAxiom/src/aldor'
> make: *** [all] Fehler 2
>=20
> my make is=20
>=20
> make -v
> GNU Make 3.81beta4
>=20
> my javac is
>=20
> javac -version
> Jikes Compiler - Version 1.22 - 3 October 2004
> Copyright (C) IBM Corporation 1997-2003, 2004.
>=20
> Ralf, maybe you could send me the contents of your src/aldor directory af=
ter
> building. Maybe I can spot a difference.
>=20
> > I can't debug it at the moment, as I changed machine recently, and in t=
he process of=20
> > redoing the aldor code without using java, and a slightly saner makefile
> > framework.
> > The 'not java' bit works, but I need a bit of free time to sort out the=
 build process.
>=20
> Oh, great
>=20
> Martin




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I'm an IDIOT -

$ touch ../../int/aldor/dep_spad.stamp
$ document Make.functions.pamphlet

I only did the touch part.

Excuse me please and thanks Ralf for sending the log.

Martin




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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:


[...]

|                                                 It means that we *do*
| publish the many alternatives and failed attempts as well as the
| "final version". Very few projects ever reach the stage of a final
| version.

Agreed.

-- Gaby



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To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] database fixes
References: <E1GakGT-00017h-00@hera.math.uni.wroc.pl>
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

[...]

| Hmm, I do not think information from the e-mail belongs to the
| document -- for example writing a paper I discard many alternatives
| and failed attempts and publish only final version. IMHO information
| about specific problem belongs to the ChangeLog (in form of a
| pointer to the message).

I see ChangeLog as a brief record to assist in archeology.  It is no
substitute for proper documentation.  It is not where code
documentation will go.

| Now if you think that what I wrote in the
| email needs extra record or additions I may register a bug.
| 
| > I probably would not have written:
| > 
| >   We also reset [boot::*allconstructors*]] to [[nil]].
| > 
| > Instead the text should say why we do that.
| 
| You, Gaby and Tim ask way.

That, in fact, matches practice in any large project I've worked in
including GCC -- I mention GCC because I know you read GCC list. 

[...]

| I can think of to changes to documantation: one is to say that
| all five openxxxx routines must be called together (because
| otherwise database gets out of sync). The second is that there
| is no need to have cleanup in browseOpen, because interpOpen
| should have already cleaned up old data.

see? :-)

Thanks,

[...]

| Maybe another point: Axiom has parts that really need better
| documentation -- Bill Burge parser would be first example,

which of his parser?

while sitting here watching the debate about whether ++0x should have
a module system, I was documenting src/boot.  

| Spad compiler the second.

I would put the SPAD compiler first :-)


| Compared to them daase.lisp.pamphlet
| contains strightforward and well documented code.  Also
| daase.lisp.pamphlet seem to work quite well compared to other
| parts of Axiom, so I see little reason to change it _now_ (except
| for this single patch which affects other things that I want
| to do) -- other parts need more care. 


hat is asked is that as you go and modify that function, please also
include the explanation of the why.  It is not being asked that your
changes be accompanied by the documentation of unrelated topic.

-- Gaby




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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: Still no Aldor Interface.
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It's a make bug. I documented this on MathAction. make 3.80 works, the
preinstalled make on kubuntu GNU Make 3.81beta4 doesn't. The name says it
all...

Thanks for helping,

Martin




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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Photos from Sage Days 2 and audio recording of
	talks
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Axiom at Sage Days 2:

Can you spot the Axiom presentation? :-)

http://modular.math.washington.edu/pics/new/2006-10-SAGE_DAYS_2/

  - IMG_1822.jpg, IMG_1823.jpg, ... IMG_1829.jpg, IMG_1830.jpg

William Stein, lead Sage developer: IMG_1819.jpg

http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/burhanud/sd2-pics/

  - IMG_5410.JPG

Sage development team at U. Washington: IMG_5439.JPG

http://www.flickr.com/photos/40721822%40N00/tags/sagedays2

  - http://www.flickr.com/photos/40721822@N00/266702995/

http://flickr.com/photos/11077869@N00/tags/sagedays2/

  - http://flickr.com/photos/11077869@N00/267018203/

http://modular.math.washington.edu/home/wdj/sagefiles/sagedays2pics/image=
s.h
tml

  -
http://modular.math.washington.edu/home/wdj/sagefiles/sagedays2pics/codin=
g-s
print-cafe-allegro7.jpg

  -
http://modular.math.washington.edu/home/wdj/sagefiles/sagedays2pics/talks=
-fi
rst-day15.jpg

  -
http://modular.math.washington.edu/home/wdj/sagefiles/sagedays2pics/talks=
-fi
rst-day16.jpg

The audio recordings of the talks are here:

http://sage.math.washington.edu/sage_days2_audio

My Axiom talk:

 - http://sage.math.washington.edu/sage_days2_audio/VOICE014.MP3

If you listen, please comment! :-)

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Dear Tim,

could you explain the following diff:

diff -r /local/scratch/axiom/mnt/linux/doc/hypertex/pages/util.ht axiom49/mnt/linux/doc/hypertex/pages/util.ht
435,439c435,437
< % 20030110000 tpd added a leading open paren
< \newcommand{\spadsyscom}[1]{){\tt #1}}
< % 20030110000 tpd these two commands are never used
< %\newcommand{\spadcmd}[1]{\spadsyscom{#1}}
< %\newcommand{\spadsys}[1]{\spadsyscom{#1}}
---
> \newcommand{\spadsyscom}[1]{{\tt #1}}
> \newcommand{\spadcmd}[1]{\spadsyscom{#1}}
> \newcommand{\spadsys}[1]{\spadsyscom{#1}}

It breaks my guessing package!

Martin




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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| src/interp/Makfile.pamphlet contains misleading information about
| the TRANOBJS group of files. The following patch (at least partially)
| correct this information:

Sweet!

Please check in with appropriate ChangeLog; send the final patch to
the list.

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| do a symbolic link from libreadline.so.4 to libreadline.so

All suggestions I've seen so far look like that one.  Can anyone
explain why  that is supposed to do anything sensible?

I would not like to see Axiom, a scientific computational platform,
built on superstition.

-- Gaby



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What version of Kubuntu is this? Edgy or Dapper?

On 20 Oct 2006 17:33:05 +0200, Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at> wrote:
> It's a make bug. I documented this on MathAction. make 3.80 works, the
> preinstalled make on kubuntu GNU Make 3.81beta4 doesn't. The name says it
> all...
>
> Thanks for helping,
>
> Martin
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Axiom-developer mailing list
> Axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiom-developer
>



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"Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com> writes:

> What version of Kubuntu is this? Edgy or Dapper?

Dapper

Martin




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AFAICS bug #157 really is about confusing printouts. Namely, both with
Axiom from December 2004 and current build-improvements I get:

)lisp (setq *miss* t)
x
<snip>

getdatabase call: Variable             CONSTRUCTORMODEMAP
getdatabase miss: CONSTRUCTORMODEMAP   Variable

This output is "as expected": reporting of database calls prints
constructor first and attribute second, printing of database misses uses
the opposite order.  To avoid confusion we probably should use the same
order in both printouts (if you think that we should correct the printout
I will prepare a patch). 
-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | src/interp/Makfile.pamphlet contains misleading information about
> | the TRANOBJS group of files. The following patch (at least partially)
> | correct this information:
> 
> Sweet!
> 
> Please check in with appropriate ChangeLog; send the final patch to
> the list.
> 

Commited.  As requested the send the patch second time to the list:

Index: src/interp/Makefile.pamphlet
===================================================================
--- src/interp/Makefile.pamphlet	(wersja 185)
+++ src/interp/Makefile.pamphlet	(kopia robocza)
@@ -308,9 +308,19 @@
 autoload_objects += $(BFOBJS)
 
 @
-The {\bf TRANOBJS} list contains files only used by the {\bf boot}
+The {\bf TRANOBJS} list contains files used by Spad to Aldor convertor.
+The files probably are also used by the {\bf boot}
 to Common Lisp translator and are probably never used by anyone
-but the developers. These files should probably be autoloaded.
+but the developers.
+
+When a user requests converting a file from Spad to Aldor the
+function
+[[spad2AsTranslatorAutoloadOnceTrigger]] is called triggering
+load of this group of files. Loading [[$TRANOBJS]] in turn replaces
+many compiler functions by versions contain in this files.
+ These files should probably be autoloaded
+(at least [[${AUTO}/wi1.$(OBJEXT)]] and [[${AUTO}/wi2.$(OBJEXT)]]
+(which replace compiler functions) {\em must} be autoloaded).
 <<environment>>=
 TRANOBJS= ${AUTO}/wi1.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}/wi2.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}/pspad1.$(OBJEXT) \
 	  ${AUTO}/pspad2.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}/mark.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}/nspadaux.$(OBJEXT) \
Index: ChangeLog.build-improvements
===================================================================
--- ChangeLog.build-improvements	(wersja 185)
+++ ChangeLog.build-improvements	(kopia robocza)
@@ -1,3 +1,9 @@
+2006-10-20  Waldek Hebisch  <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
+
+	* src/interp/Makefile.pamphlet: correct misleading information
+	about TRANOBJS
+	
+	
 2006-10-20  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>
 
 	* config/setup-dep.mk: Tidy.


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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To: "Gabriel Dos Reis" <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] yet another problem with dependencies
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Gaby,

On 20 Oct 2006 20:29:09 +0200, Gabriel Dos Reis
<gdr@integrable-solutions.net> wrote:
> root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
>
> | do a symbolic link from libreadline.so.4 to libreadline.so
>
> All suggestions I've seen so far look like that one.  Can anyone
> explain why  that is supposed to do anything sensible?
>
> I would not like to see Axiom, a scientific computational platform,
> built on superstition.

I tried to reproduce this error in Ubuntu (Dapper) (supposedly they
use the same base as Kubuntu, just KDE instead of Gnome). However, I
do not have /lib/libreadline like Martin, but /lib/libreadline.so.5.
Maybe they changed something, or the administrator.

Anyways, the only error that I got was this previously reported:

http://www.mail-archive.com/mathaction-bounces@axiom-developer.org/msg00424.html

I do not know if that patch or another one was applied to the sources
already. I compiled the Gold.

Regards,

Alfredo



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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

[...]

| You are still talking about reading the source of the document and
| not about reading the presentation form of the document itself. It is
| expected in a successful literate programming project however that
| most people would begin by reading the actual literate documents in
| their final format as dvi or pdf files or in printed form like in a
| journal or a book.

It has been asserted many times that "literate programming" is about
writing for humans, not machines; it has also been asserted that Axiom
is a literate.  However, each time I get into Axiom source code, I
have the distinctive feeling that the source code has been written or
formatted for the machines, not the human.  Compared to GCC -- not
literate in the sense used here -- the source code are far much more
readable and understandable -- let alone documentation.  I have the
sense that a non-literate project as GCC has source files written for
humans, and not for machines :-)

I know, it is easy to say; but, think about it when you change pamphlets.
They should be written by humans *for humans*, not just for the typesetting
machines that would render the final DVI or PDF eventually read by humans.

-- Gaby



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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
> 
> | do a symbolic link from libreadline.so.4 to libreadline.so
> 
> All suggestions I've seen so far look like that one.  Can anyone
> explain why  that is supposed to do anything sensible?
> 
> I would not like to see Axiom, a scientific computational platform,
> built on superstition.

We should really ask Martion what the following commands give:

ldd /users/rubey/axiom/mnt/linux/bin/AXIOMsys
ldd /users/rubey/axiom/obj/linux/bin/interpsys

I ask about interpsys because it is used during build and normally
it also links readline. On Debian systems there is 
'/usr/lib/libreadline.so' which is a link to '/lib/libreadline.so.5'
AXIOMsys compiled on machine where libreadline.so.5 is installed
should look for libreadline.so.5 (and not for libreadline.so.4).
So either Martin is using binary build on different system or
there is somewhere libreadline.so.4 which was picked when linking
AXIOMsys, but is not in the paths searched by dynamic linker.
One typical case is when program contains its own sources of
shared libraries -- program may succesfully link against such
shared library but it can not run because by default dynamic
linker searches only standard locations (in fact I suspected
for a moment that Axiom has own copy of readline stashed
somewhere, but after checking I think it is not the case).
I would try first typing:

locate libreadline.so.4

which on one of Debian machines found '/lib/libreadline.so.4'
(this one is from compat package and should work fine, but
something more strange may cause troubles).
-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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From: CY <smustudent1@yahoo.com>
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> My Axiom talk:
>
>  - http://sage.math.washington.edu/sage_days2_audio/VOICE014.MP3
>
> If you listen, please comment! :-)

Um, file not found.  Is this it?

http://sage.math.washington.edu/sage_days2_audio/Bill_Page.mp3

Downloading that to listen now.

CY



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On October 20, 2006 10:32 PM CY wrote:
> 
> > My Axiom talk:
> >
> >  - http://sage.math.washington.edu/sage_days2_audio/VOICE014.MP3
> >
> > If you listen, please comment! :-)
> 
> Um, file not found.  Is this it?
> 
> http://sage.math.washington.edu/sage_days2_audio/Bill_Page.mp3
>

Yes, that's the one. They renamed it just after I sent the email.
Sorry.
 
> Downloading that to listen now.
> 

Well... ?

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Gaby, you probably know this, but just in case: running
Rosetta.pamphlet trough noweb messes it. This is using
Debian noweb. Package identification:
 
ii  nowebm         2.10c-3.3      A WEB-like literate-programming tool


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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On October 21, 2006 10:11 AM Waldek Hebisch
> 
> Gaby, you probably know this, but just in case: running
> Rosetta.pamphlet through noweb messes it. This is using
> Debian noweb. Package identification:
>  
> ii  nowebm         2.10c-3.3      A WEB-like literate-programming tool
> 
> 

There is a better version of Rosetta.pamphlet online here:

http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/axiom--test--1/src/doc/Rosetta

I have previously discussed this version with Clifford Yap on this
list.

Shall I check this into Silver /trunk?

Regards,
Bill Page.





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To: Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 16:47:37 +0200 (CEST)
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> There is a better version of Rosetta.pamphlet online here:
> 
> http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/axiom--test--1/src/doc/Rosetta
> 
> I have previously discussed this version with Clifford Yap on this
> list.
> 
> Shall I check this into Silver /trunk?
> 

I fetched the source. Diff tells me:

--- build-improvements/src/doc/Rosetta.pamphlet 2006-10-21 02:54:55.000000000 +0200
+++ Rosetta.pamphlet    2006-10-21 16:39:28.000000000 +0200
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-\documentclass{book}
+\documentclass{article}
 \normalsize\baselineskip=12pt
 \parskip=0pt
 \parindent=10pt

(and another hunk due to missing newline at the end of file). So
it seems that build-improvements essentially uses your version
(except for \documentclass line).

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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On October 21, 2006 10:48 AM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> 
> > There is a better version of Rosetta.pamphlet online here:
> > 
> > http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/axiom--test--1/src/doc/Rosetta
> > 
> > I have previously discussed this version with Clifford Yap on this
> > list.
> > 
> > Shall I check this into Silver /trunk?
> > 
> 
> I fetched the source. Diff tells me:
> 
> --- build-improvements/src/doc/Rosetta.pamphlet 2006-10-21 
> 02:54:55.000000000 +0200
> +++ Rosetta.pamphlet    2006-10-21 16:39:28.000000000 +0200
> @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
> -\documentclass{book}
> +\documentclass{article}
>  \normalsize\baselineskip=12pt
>  \parskip=0pt
>  \parindent=10pt
> 
> (and another hunk due to missing newline at the end of file). So
> it seems that build-improvements essentially uses your version
> (except for \documentclass line).
> 

Hmmm... that doesn't seem significant does it?

So you say that the version of noweb that you are using (Debian
version 2.10c-3.3) is messes it? It seems to work fine on the
axiom-developer.org server which is running noweb-2.11b. The
dvi output that you can download from the web is generated by
running noweave and latex on this source file.

BTW, I have been thinking about changing "axiom--test--1" (which
currently is not linked to any repository) to "axiom/trunk" and
re-basing it on Axiom Silver at SourceForge. This would allow me
implement, for example, a button to generate the output of 'svn diff'
of the source for each pamphlet file. This would simplify applying
patches from the online source back to the Silver repository but
without linking it too strongly to the underlying repository.

To update the repository from the online source one could then

What do you think?

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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On October 21, 2006 11:20 AM I wrote:

> ...
> On October 21, 2006 10:48 AM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> ...
> So you say that the version of noweb that you are using (Debian
> version 2.10c-3.3) is messes it? It seems to work fine on the
> axiom-developer.org server which is running noweb-2.11b. The
> dvi output that you can download from the web is generated by
> running noweave and latex on this source file.
> 

Ooops I have to take that back, I just checked again and I see that
I am actually running the following command on the axiom-developer.org
server:

  axiom/mnt/linux/bin/lib/noweave -delay ...

which means that I am probably running Tim Daly's patched version
of noweb from Axiom Gold, not the version of noweb that is actually
installed on the server.

This is significant because the Rosetta.pamphlet file contains some
unescaped << ... >> and [[ ... ]] sequences that are not chunk
references.

I think we should fix these so that Rosetta.pamphlet conforms to the
standard noweb syntax and behaviour.

And I will update the way axiom-developer.org runs noweb so that it
is actually running the system installed version.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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The pamphlet ending is a bit misleading. It is a perfect latex file.

latex Rosetta.pamplet

In a sense you are right. Running that file through noweave (with any 
option you like) doesn't give a proper (standalone) latex file.

Ralf

On 10/21/2006 04:47 PM, Waldek Hebisch wrote:
>> There is a better version of Rosetta.pamphlet online here:
>>
>> http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/axiom--test--1/src/doc/Rosetta
>>
>> I have previously discussed this version with Clifford Yap on this
>> list.
>>
>> Shall I check this into Silver /trunk?
>>
> 
> I fetched the source. Diff tells me:
> 
> --- build-improvements/src/doc/Rosetta.pamphlet 2006-10-21 02:54:55.000000000 +0200
> +++ Rosetta.pamphlet    2006-10-21 16:39:28.000000000 +0200
> @@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
> -\documentclass{book}
> +\documentclass{article}
>  \normalsize\baselineskip=12pt
>  \parskip=0pt
>  \parindent=10pt
> 
> (and another hunk due to missing newline at the end of file). So
> it seems that build-improvements essentially uses your version
> (except for \documentclass line).
> 



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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
To: "'Ralf Hemmecke'" <ralf@hemmecke.de>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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On October 21, 2006 11:55 AM Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
> 
> The pamphlet ending is a bit misleading. It is a perfect latex file.
> 
> latex Rosetta.pamplet
> 
> In a sense you are right. Running that file through noweave (with any 
> option you like) doesn't give a proper (standalone) latex file.
> 

Yes, you are right. One of the advantages of the patch that Tim made
to noweb was that (usually) one does not need to make the distinction
between a noweb format file and a pure latex format file because the
default handling of undefined chunk names is less disruptive.

Note: We can achieve that same affect with an unmodified version
of noweb if we use Norman Ramsey's suggested filter. See extensive
discussion of this in the email archive.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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From: CY <smustudent1@yahoo.com>
To: axiom-developer@nongnu.org
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Photos from Sage Days 2 and audio recording of
	talks
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 12:46:36 -0400
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On Saturday 21 October 2006 09:48, you wrote:

> > Downloading that to listen now.
>
> Well... ?

Very interesting!  Good overview.  Thanks for taking the time to do this talk.

I haven't haven't anything about Aldor since the Aldor-l list discussion some 
months back, and that mostly concerned how to handle the situation of Aldor 
not being released.

Any updates available or forthcoming on that subject?

Cheers,
CY



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] update on Aldor
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On October 21, 2006 12:46 PM CY wrote:
> 
> > http://sage.math.washington.edu/sage_days2_audio/Bill_Page.mp3
> >
> > > Downloading that to listen now.
> >
> > Well... ?
> 
> Very interesting!  Good overview.  Thanks for taking the time 
> to do this talk.
>

Thanks. Maybe we should start planning the next Axiom meeting real
soon. I would love to have a chance to work on Axiom in an intensive
coding sprint such as was organized for Sage Days. I think it was
very effective.
 
> I haven't haven't anything about Aldor since the Aldor-l list 
> discussion some months back, and that mostly concerned how to
> handle the situation of Aldor not being released.
> 
> Any updates available or forthcoming on that subject?
> 

I have not heard anything at all concerning making Aldor open source
despite the publicly stated positive intentions of the principal
people involved, many months ago. I think this reflects very badly
on them, given how important this is to the future of Axiom. At this
point in time I am no longer very optimistic that this is really going
to happen. :-( Anything that anyone can do to re-energize this effort,
e.g. contact Steven Watt again and offer help with making Aldor open
source, would be greatly appreciated by all.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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On 10/21/2006 06:21 PM, Bill Page wrote:
> On October 21, 2006 11:55 AM Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
>> The pamphlet ending is a bit misleading. It is a perfect latex file.
>>
>> latex Rosetta.pamplet
>>
>> In a sense you are right. Running that file through noweave (with any 
>> option you like) doesn't give a proper (standalone) latex file.

> Yes, you are right. One of the advantages of the patch that Tim made
> to noweb was that (usually) one does not need to make the distinction
> between a noweb format file and a pure latex format file because the
> default handling of undefined chunk names is less disruptive.

That has nothing to do with the issue that src/doc/Rosetta.pamphlet does 
not contain any code chunk nor any unescaped << (in Gold, Silver or 
build-improvements).

Rosetta.pamphlet is a full latex file with \documentclass, 
\begin{document} ... \end{document}. If you do

noweave Rosetta.pamphlet > Rosetta.tex

then noweave adds some commands that are defined in noweb.sty (no matter 
whether you add switches like -n or -delay). Since Rosetta.pamphlet does 
not have any \usepackage in it, latex cannot succeed.

In fact src/doc/Makefile.pamplet has a target where I don't see 'noweave'.

Ralf

${DVI}/Rosetta.dvi: ${IN}/Rosetta.pamphlet
	@echo 5 building ${DVI}/Rosetta.dvi from ${IN}/Rosetta.pamphlet
	@(cd ${MID} ; \
	cp ${IN}/Rosetta.pamphlet ${MID} ; \
	if [ -z ${NOISE} ] ; then \
	 (latex Rosetta.pamphlet --interaction nonstopmode >${TMP}/trace ; \
	  latex Rosetta.pamphlet --interaction nonstopmode >${TMP}/trace ) ; \
	else \
	 (latex Rosetta.pamphlet --interaction nonstopmode ; \
	  latex Rosetta.pamphlet --interaction nonstopmode ) ; \
	fi ; \
	cp Rosetta.dvi ${DVI} )

@



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From: Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at>
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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Aldor extend for extending Axiom code
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Dear Peter,

since I managed to have axiom and aldor work together again (I HATE MAKE: 2
hours), I'm currently trying to get our aldor-combinat package running in
Axiom, by coding a compatibility layer to libaldor, i.e., reimplementing those
things we need from libaldor in axiom.

To this end, it would be great if the "extend" keyword would work. Currently,
it doesn't seem to.

Do you have an idea why and - to me probably more important - is there a chance
to get it running?

Here is an example file:

#include "axiom"

extend Integer: with {
	foo: % -> %
} == add {
	foo(a: %): % == {
		output("Hi")$OutputPackage; 
		output(coerce(a))$OutputPackage;
		output("Ho")$OutputPackage; 
		a;
	}
}

And here is what I get:

)co peter.as
   Compiling AXIOM source code from file peter.as using AXIOM-XL 
      compiler and options 
-O -Fasy -Fao -Flsp -laxiom -Mno-AXL_W_WillObsolete -DAxiom -Y $AXIOM/algebra
      Use the system command )set compiler args to change these 
      options.
#1 (Warning) Deprecated message prefix: use `ALDOR_' instead of `_AXL'
   Compiling Lisp source code from file ./peter.lsp
   Issuing )library command for peter
   Reading /users/rubey/martin/Axiom/peter.asy
   Integer is already explicitly exposed in frame frame0 
   Integer will be automatically loaded when needed from 
      /users/rubey/martin/Axiom/peter
(1) -> foo 2
   Hi
 
   >> System error:
   Bind stack overflow.

(1) -> 1+1

Integer
 
   >> System error:
   FOAM-USER::|fiRaiseException| is invalid as a function.

(1) -> foo 2
   Hi
Integer
 
   >> System error:
   FOAM-USER::|fiRaiseException| is invalid as a function.

Martin




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From: C Y <smustudent1@yahoo.com>
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--- Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:

> On October 21, 2006 12:46 PM CY wrote:
> > 
> > Very interesting!  Good overview.  Thanks for taking the time 
> > to do this talk.
> >
> 
> Thanks. Maybe we should start planning the next Axiom meeting real
> soon. I would love to have a chance to work on Axiom in an intensive
> coding sprint such as was organized for Sage Days. I think it was
> very effective.

That would be fun.  Maybe we could do it in Pittsburgh :-).  Europe
seems to be the more popular forum these days though.  Where is the
most logical place, given the geographic distribution of Axiom
developers?
  
> > I haven't haven't anything about Aldor since the Aldor-l list 
> > discussion some months back, and that mostly concerned how to
> > handle the situation of Aldor not being released.
> > 
> > Any updates available or forthcoming on that subject?
> 
> I have not heard anything at all concerning making Aldor open source
> despite the publicly stated positive intentions of the principal
> people involved, many months ago. I think this reflects very badly
> on them, given how important this is to the future of Axiom. At this
> point in time I am no longer very optimistic that this is really
> going to happen. :-( Anything that anyone can do to re-energize this
> effort, e.g. contact Steven Watt again and offer help with making
> Aldor open source, would be greatly appreciated by all.

Perhaps, as an alternative, we could ask not for the code but simply
for the manual/documentation to be released as Modified BSD licensed
work?   We don't need to use the Aldor name, but if we could at least
start with those descriptions of the language and combine/expand them
with a re-done/spruced up SPAD compiler to make a literate document it
would be a big help.  The documentation is considerably more restricted
than even the current Aldor distribution - this is the statement at the
beginning of the Aldor compiler user guide:

Aldor User Guide
c2000 The Numerical Algorithms Group Limited. c
2002 Aldor.org.
All rights reserved. No part of this Manual may be reproduced,
transcribed, stored in a retrieval system, translated into any language
or computer language or transmitted in any form or by any means,
electronic, mechanical, photocopying, recording or otherwise, without
the prior written permission of the copyright owner.

Ouch.  If we want to create a proper specification for Axiom's language
of choice (personally I feel we need to) it would help to be able to
build on Aldor's pre-existing documentation.  Would that be easier than
releasing the code?

Cheers,
CY

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To: "'Ralf Hemmecke'" <ralf@hemmecke.de>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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On October 21, 2006 2:46 PM Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
> Bill Page wrote: 
> > ... One of the advantages of the patch that Tim made
> > to noweb was that (usually) one does not need to make the 
> > distinction between a noweb format file and a pure latex
> > format file because the default handling of undefined chunk
> > names is less disruptive.
> 
> That has nothing to do with the issue that src/doc/Rosetta.pamphlet
> does not contain any code chunk nor any unescaped << (in Gold,
> Silver or build-improvements).

Look at line 273

\Axiom       & set [1, 2] & [1, 2]    & matrix([[1, 2],[3, 4]])

and many lines after that.

When these lines are processed by the unpatched noweb program the
[[...]] sections are expanded as noweb "quotes", but when processed
by Tim's patched version of noweb this does not happen.

> 
> Rosetta.pamphlet is a full latex file with \documentclass, 
> \begin{document} ... \end{document}. If you do
> 
> noweave Rosetta.pamphlet > Rosetta.tex
>
> then noweave adds some commands that are defined in noweb.sty 
> (no matter whether you add switches like -n or -delay). Since 
> Rosetta.pamphlet does not have any \usepackage in it, latex
> cannot succeed.
>

Actually noweave is usually called with the option -delay like
this

  noweave -delay Rosetta.pamphlet > Rosetta.tex

In that case the only noweb-ism that is added occurs after the
\end{document} and has no affect on the latex. You can see this
on the axiom-test--1/src/doc/Rosetta wiki page because the only
error in the latex log is due to the \chapter command which is
not defined for \documentclass{article}.
 
> In fact src/doc/Makefile.pamplet has a target where I don't 
> see 'noweave'.
> 
> ${DVI}/Rosetta.dvi: ${IN}/Rosetta.pamphlet
> 	@echo 5 building ${DVI}/Rosetta.dvi from ${IN}/Rosetta.pamphlet
> 	@(cd ${MID} ; \
> 	cp ${IN}/Rosetta.pamphlet ${MID} ; \
> 	if [ -z ${NOISE} ] ; then \
> 	 (latex Rosetta.pamphlet --interaction nonstopmode 
> >${TMP}/trace ; \
> 	  latex Rosetta.pamphlet --interaction nonstopmode 
> >${TMP}/trace ) ; \
> 	else \
> 	 (latex Rosetta.pamphlet --interaction nonstopmode ; \
> 	  latex Rosetta.pamphlet --interaction nonstopmode ) ; \
> 	fi ; \
> 	cp Rosetta.dvi ${DVI} )
> 
> @
> 

You are right and the Makefile is wrong. Everything with extension
.pamphlet should be processed by noweave before calling latex.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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On 10/21/2006 09:47 PM, Bill Page wrote:
> On October 21, 2006 2:46 PM Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
>> Bill Page wrote:
>>> ... One of the advantages of the patch that Tim made to noweb was
>>> that (usually) one does not need to make the distinction between
>>> a noweb format file and a pure latex format file because the
>>> default handling of undefined chunk names is less disruptive.
>> That has nothing to do with the issue that src/doc/Rosetta.pamphlet
>>  does not contain any code chunk nor any unescaped << (in Gold, 
>> Silver or build-improvements).
> 
> Look at line 273
> 
> \Axiom       & set [1, 2] & [1, 2]    & matrix([[1, 2],[3, 4]])
> 
> and many lines after that.
> 
> When these lines are processed by the unpatched noweb program the 
> [[...]] sections are expanded as noweb "quotes", but when processed 
> by Tim's patched version of noweb this does not happen.

I really could not believe that Tim's patch handles that case correctly.
Note that inside [[...]] noweb does never require a chunk name.

If I say

noweave -delay Rosetta.pamphlet > Rosetta.tex

then I get for the above input line (actually it is line 271) the line

\Axiom       & set [1, 2] & [1, 2]    & matrix({\Tt{}1,\ 2],[3,\
4\nwendquote})            \\

as output and of course

latex Rosetta.tex

ends with the error message

l.271 ...   & set [1, 2] & [1, 2]    & matrix({\Tt
                                                   {}1,\ 2],[3,\
4\nwendquote...

since \Tt is defined in noweb.sty (which is never included).

OK let's do the same thing with the patch.

$AXIOM/bin/lib/noweave -delay Rosetta.pamphlet > Rosetta1.tex

That leads to the line

\Axiom       & set [1, 2] & [1, 2]    & matrix({\tt{}1,\ 2],[3,\ 4})
         \\

and you certainly agree that the original definition of \tt does not
produce [[ in the output.

latex Rosetta.tex

succeeds but the output is simply wrong. The patch is a misfeature!!!

> Everything with extension .pamphlet should be processed by noweave
> before calling latex.

I completely agree. Doing otherwise just causes confusion.

Ralf



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Ralf,

Thanks for taking this issue to a proper conclusion. :-)

On October 21, 2006 4:24 PM you wrote:
> ... 
> OK let's do the same thing with the patch.
> 
> $AXIOM/bin/lib/noweave -delay Rosetta.pamphlet > Rosetta1.tex
> 
> That leads to the line
> 
> \Axiom       & set [1, 2] & [1, 2]    & matrix({\tt{}1,\ 2],[3,\ 4})
>          \\
> 
> and you certainly agree that the original definition of \tt does not
> produce [[ in the output.
> 
> latex Rosetta.tex
> 
> succeeds but the output is simply wrong. The patch is a misfeature!!!
>

Yes, now I do agree. I think the patched noweb should be eliminated.
 
> > Everything with extension .pamphlet should be processed by noweave
> > before calling latex.
> 
> I completely agree. Doing otherwise just causes confusion.
> 

So how do we escape these [[...]] things so that noweb doesn't touch
them? Is it the same as escaping << ... >> ? I don't think Norman
Ramsey's filter will handle this case since it only affects how
undefined chunk names are treated.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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> So how do we escape these [[...]] things so that noweb doesn't touch
> them? Is it the same as escaping << ... >> ?

sed -e 's/\[\[/@[[/g' Rosetta.pamphlet > R.pamphlet

Then R.pamphlet *must* be run through 'noweave -delay' in order to get 
the right latex file. Actually it also is a latex file, but 'latex 
R.pamphlet would contain @ in the output.

> I don't think Norman
> Ramsey's filter will handle this case since it only affects how
> undefined chunk names are treated.

As I said. It's totally unrelated.

BTW, I do not think that [[...]] should be used. As far as I understand 
it is intended in noweb to be just like \verb only that one could have 
some fancy stuff (see below).

But, actually, I believe that better tags should be given. For example, 
I use \adtype{Integer} and \adname{foo} for types and functions in 
ALLPROSE and have some scripts dealing with the proper hyper-linking. 
Note that [[...]] says nothing about the semantics of the stuff inside.

Ralf




Example....

Try the following commands on the file below.

noweave -delay -index aaa.nw > aaa.tex
latex aaa.tex
latex aaa.tex
xdvi aaa.dvi

I have no idea why I get

! Bad space factor (0).
<recently read> \@savsf

l.6 ...\nwbegincode{1}\sublabel{NW21NIyD-1p0Y9w-1}
 
\nwmargintag{{\nwtagstyle{...

Just ignore it by pressing 'q'.


%%% aaa.nw %%%
\documentclass{article}
\usepackage{noweb}
\usepackage{hyperref}
\begin{document}
blah blah
<<*>>=
define IntegerCategory: Category == with {
   foo: % -> %;
   bar: % -> %;
}
@ %def IntegerCategory foo bar

I now can use [[foo]] and [[bar]] and even [[IntegerCategory]] and
[[Integer]] which is quite convenient. The
\verb'%def' stuff even gets linked (see next page).

\newpage

But that is not proper tagging.

<<*>>=
Integer: IntegerCategory == add {
   foo(x: %) == x;
   ...
}
@ %def Integer

The problem is that we consider [[Integer]] and [[IntegerCategory]] as
types while [[foo]] and [[bar]] are just functions.

\end{document}



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Camm,

On October 21, 2006 4:05 PM you wrote:
>=20
> Greetings!  Just checking that my last message hee was not lost.
>

I was a bit confused because the message that you quote below is
my reply to you not your last message. :-) But anyway I presume you
meant the following email:

On October 18, 2006 4:31 PM you asked:

>...=20
> Sigh.  I suppose reconfigured here?  The binutils configure scripts
> do look for msgfmt.  I'm surprised they don't step around a missing
> one, or at least bomb.  What does your binutils configure output say
> in this regard?
>

I am not sure what you are asking. I showed out the partial output
from gcl-2.6.8pre/binutils/bfd/config.log below.
=20
> >=20
> > ---------
> >=20
> > gcl-2.6.8pre/binutils/bfd/config.log confirms:
> >=20
> >  Invocation command line was
> >=20
> >   $ ./configure --with-included-gettext
> >=20
> > But apparently recursive makefile in bfd/po does not make
> > use of the included gettext. Maybe this is a binutils bug?=20
> > =20

When I looked further in this log file it showed that inspite of
--with-included-gettext, the configure script also found the msgfmt
in my local bin directory. I didn't understand this so I tried to
reproduce the result but first I removed all the gettext and msgfmt
from by local bin, but left it in the path in order to use the
replacement for sed.

When I re-ran the gcl build it ran properly to completion without
any error. Hmmmm... don't know. Can't reproduce. So scrap this one.
Must have been my mistake.

> ...
> > But see later in the message - I apparently have a problem with
> > __srget.
> >=20
>=20
> There is a notorious platform specific _ name mangling issue here.
> See the LEADING_UNDERSCORE variable.
> ...=20
> >=20
> > Thank you. I look forward to a finally finalized 2.6.8. The
> > evoluton of 2.6.8pre is causing us a little consternaton in
> > the current Axiom source distribution... :-)
> > =20
>=20
> My apologies.  So many moving parts.  I have to get everything synched
> on one image, however, if we want these apps in Etch.  And there have
> been so many gcc et. al. issues.
>=20
> BTW, are we not updating
>=20
> http://axiom.axiom-developer.org/axiom-website/DOWNLOADS/
>=20
> anymore?  Is there a latest official tarball somewhere for Etch (eta
> this December)?  Having a simple webpage with the filenames in some
> sort of alphabetical/cronological sort order lets me automatically
> know when the Debian package needs updating.
>

One no one has been created any new tarballs lately. The latest version
in Axiom Gold is patch-50 but I don't think Tim created a tarball when
he release the patch. :-(
=20
> > ...=20
> > Something is strange about thid symbol "___srget" with the 3
> > underscore characters, I think??? The name "__srget" with 2
> > underscore characters is properly defined in /usr/include/stdio.h
> >=20
> > I don't understand what is going on here.
> >=20
>=20
> OK, your linker is prepending an underscore, and apparently
> LEADING_UNDERSCORE was improperly set.  Could you investigate?

I tried to track this down. LEADING_UNDERSCORE is set to 1, which
seems to be correct when I use nm to look at the symbols in the
test file compiled by the gcl configure script. The raw symbol
"___srget" does have 3 underscores (two in the original name), and
cos appears as "_cos" etc. Everything works fine during the Axiom
build for quite a while (up to the start of the building interpsys)
until the=20

  Error: Undefined symbol "___srget"

message appears. I would have presumed that this symbol would have
been needed long before this failure occured. I rather suspsect that
this error is a consequence of some deeper but silent problem, e.g.
failed compiler::link?


> There may also be a C compiler switch for this.  Is this gcc?
>

Yes it is

$ gcc --version
gcc (GCC) 3.1 20020420 (prerelease)
Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.

What sort of switch? How/when should I set it?
=20
>=20
> > Also prior to compiling depsys, bootsys was already successfully
> > created however it did have one oddity. The original Axiom load
> > commands like ')load postpar' run during building depsys fails
> > with an error message like "'postpar.8' does not exist" (Yes, that's
> > the digit 8 after the dot.). If I change the command to include the
> > .o like this: ')load postpar.o' everything seems fine and depsys
> > is built.
> >=20
> > bootsys itself is actually built form a copy of gcl called 'lisp'
> > that is created using compiler::link. The 'lisp' image includes
> > several Axiom specific external routines. I.e.
> >=20
> > echo '(compiler::link nil
> > =20
> >=20
> "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/build/
> powerpc-ap
> > ple-darwin6.8/bin/lisp" ' \
> >               ' (format nil "(progn (let ((*load-path* (cons ~S
> > *load-path*))'\
> >               ' (si::*load-types* ~S))' \
> >               ' (compiler::emit-fn t))' \
> >               ' (when (fboundp (quote si::sgc-on))' \
> >               ' (si::sgc-on t))' \
> >               ' (setq compiler::*default-system-p* t))"' \
> >               ' si::*system-directory* (quote (list ".lsp")))' \
> >               '
> >=20
> "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/..
> /./src/lib
> > /cfuns-c.o' \
> >                '
> >=20
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/../
> ./src/lib/
> > sockio-c.o' \
> >                '
> >=20
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/../
> ./src/lib/
> > libspad.a")' \
> >  | /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin/gcl
>=20
> Can you post the output from this?
>

            | /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin/gcl
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/

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   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x1c8000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x1c9000     0xf000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x1d8000   0x421000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x5f9000   0x165000 r    rwx  (no zone)
  0x75e000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
--- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x1c8000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x1c9000   0x430000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x5f9000   0x165000 r    rwx  (no zone)
  0x75e000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
--- Header Information ---
Magic      =3D 0xfeedface
CPUType    =3D 18
CPUSubType =3D 0
FileType   =3D 0x2
NCmds      =3D 10
SizeOfCmds =3D 1620
Flags      =3D 0x00000085
Highest address of load commands in input file:     0x75e000
Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0xc30
--- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
 0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
 1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c8000
                               __text               0x1c30   0x1ad804
                               __picsymbol_stub   0x1af434     0x1998
                               __symbol_stub      0x1b0dcc          0
                               __cstring          0x1b0dcc    0x16110
                               __literal4         0x1c6edc       0x18
                               __literal8         0x1c6ef8      0x108
                               __const            0x1c7000     0x1f9c
                               __eh_frame         0x1c8f9c       0x60
 2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c9000   0x430000
                               __data             0x1c9000     0xaee4
                               __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d3ee4      0x2d8
                               __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d41bc      0x9e0
                               __dyld             0x1d4b9c       0x1c
                               __const            0x1d4bb8     0x2748
                               __bss              0x1d7300     0x9340
                               __common           0x1e0640   0x418970
 3 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT         0x5f9000   0x165000
 4 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
 5 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
 6 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
 7 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
 8 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
 9 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
--- Load Commands written to Output File ---
Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:         =
 0)
Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c8000 (sz:   =
0x1c8000)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c8000 -   0x1d7000 (sz:     =
0xf000)
        section __data           at   0x1c8000 -   0x1d2ee4 (sz:     =
0xaee4)
        section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d2ee4 -   0x1d31bc (sz:      =
0x2d8)
        section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d31bc -   0x1d3b9c (sz:      =
0x9e0)
        section __dyld           at   0x1d3b9c -   0x1d3bb8 (sz:       =
0x1c)
        section __const          at   0x1d3bb8 -   0x1d6300 (sz:     =
0x2748)
        section __bss            at   0x1d6300 -   0x1df640 (sz:     =
0x9340)
        section __common         at   0x1df640 -   0x5f7fb0 (sz:   =
0x418970)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f8000 -   0x5f8000 (sz:         =
 0)
WGCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages

> >=20
> > If I intervene and make Axiom use the original 'saved_gcl' to build
> > 'bootsys' instead of using 'lisp', then the 'postpar.8' problem does
> > not occur and gcl finds the .o files anyway, as expected.
> >=20
> > This makes me suspicious that something subtle may be wrong with
> > the output of 'compiler:link'. The size of the result images also
> > seem curious:
> >=20
> > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  18362444 Oct 17 19:08 saved_gcl
> > ...
> > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  13072984 Oct 18 04:01 lisp
> > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  19159640 Oct 18 04:01 bootsys
> > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100   7719512 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp.tmp
> > -rw-r--r--  1 billpage  100         0 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp_map
> > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  49588824 Oct 18 03:10 depsys
> >=20
> > Remember that 'lisp' is create by 'compiler::link' from
> > saved_gcl plus some externals. Why is it smaller? Also the
> > "raw" files were left here don't look "normal" to me.
> >=20
> > A test image of gcl created by
> >=20
> >   $ gcl
> >   (si:save-system "test-image")
> >   (quit)
> >=20
> > is actually *larger* than the original saved_gcl.
> >=20
> > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  23699532 Oct 18 11:07 test-image
> >=20
> > Are all these problems related?
> >=20
> > Any thing you can suggest would be greatly appreciated.
> >=20
>=20
> I also suspect compiler::link failure.  It is also odd that
> save-system images are so much bigger.  Here is the tiny difference on
> Linux:
>=20
> ls -l /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
> -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 9329131 Oct 18 13:43=20
> /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
> /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.7 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 13:40:07
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (XGCL READLINE=20
> BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a=20
> compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
>=20
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
>=20
> >(si::save-system "/tmp/ff")
> ls -l /tmp/ff
> -rwxr-x--- 1 camm camm 9333267 Oct 18 16:25 /tmp/ff
>=20
> compiler::link should be no smaller than saved_gcl.  The raw files are
> explicitly deleted as named and output by gcc -- the .tmp extension
> appears non-std and might be expected to persist.
>=20
> I'd make two images, one with
>=20
> (si::save-system "foo")
>=20
> and the other with
>=20
> (compiler::link nil "bar")
>=20
> And then in each, do a few tests, including looking at
> si::*load-types*.
>

Ok, here are the result of your suggested tests below:

--------------

ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ echo '(si::save-system "foo")' =
|
gcl > foo.log
ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ echo '(compiler::link nil =
"bar")'
| gcl > bar.log
ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ ls -l foo bar
-rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  13029844 Oct 21 15:06 bar
-rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  23708096 Oct 21 15:05 foo

ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ cat foo.log

GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/

>DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
heap_end:        0xb0c000
core_end:        0xb0d000
mach_brkpt:     0xe737000
mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
--- List of All Regions ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x5f5000   0x517000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
  0xb0c000 0x1f6bb000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
--- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
--- Header Information ---
Magic      =3D 0xfeedface
CPUType    =3D 18
CPUSubType =3D 0
FileType   =3D 0x2
NCmds      =3D 11
SizeOfCmds =3D 1744
Flags      =3D 0x00000085
Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x5fad0000
Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0x6f8
--- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
 0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
 1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
                               __text               0x16f8   0x1aafc8
                               __picsymbol_stub   0x1ac6c0     0x18e4
                               __symbol_stub      0x1adfa4          0
                               __cstring          0x1adfa4    0x15f5c
                               __literal4         0x1c3f00       0x18
                               __literal8         0x1c3f18      0x108
                               __const            0x1c4020     0x1f9c
                               __eh_frame         0x1c5fbc       0x60
 2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
                               __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
                               __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
                               __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
                               __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
                               __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
                               __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
                               __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d68
 3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000
                               __data             0x5f5000   0x517000
 4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x5f96b000   0x165000
 5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
 6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
 7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
 8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
 9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
--- Load Commands written to Output File ---
Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:         =
 0)
Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 (sz:   =
0x1c6000)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 (sz:   =
0x42e000)
        section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 (sz:     =
0xaec4)
        section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 (sz:      =
0x2c4)
        section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 (sz:      =
0x9c8)
        section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c (sz:       =
0x1c)
        section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 (sz:     =
0x2748)
        section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 (sz:     =
0x8f28)
        section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f48 (sz:   =
0x416d68)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb0c000 (sz:   =
0x518000)
Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at  0x1538000 -  0x169c1c0 (sz:   =
0x1641c0)
Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
12 unused bytes follow Mach-O header


ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ cat bar.log

GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/

>DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
heap_end:        0x5f5000
core_end:        0x5f5000
mach_brkpt:      0x5f5000
mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
--- List of All Regions ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x1c7000     0xf000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x1d6000   0x41f000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x5f5000   0x165000 r    rwx  (no zone)
  0x75a000    0x40000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x79a000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
--- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x5f5000   0x165000 r    rwx  (no zone)
  0x75a000    0x40000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x79a000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
--- Header Information ---
Magic      =3D 0xfeedface
CPUType    =3D 18
CPUSubType =3D 0
FileType   =3D 0x2
NCmds      =3D 10
SizeOfCmds =3D 1620
Flags      =3D 0x00000085
Highest address of load commands in input file:     0x75a000
Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:     0x1658
--- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
 0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
 1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
                               __text               0x2658   0x1ab044
                               __picsymbol_stub   0x1ad69c     0x18e4
                               __symbol_stub      0x1aef80          0
                               __cstring          0x1aef80    0x15f5c
                               __literal4         0x1c4edc       0x18
                               __literal8         0x1c4ef8      0x108
                               __const            0x1c5000     0x1f9c
                               __eh_frame         0x1c6f9c       0x60
 2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
                               __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
                               __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
                               __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
                               __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
                               __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
                               __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
                               __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d58
 3 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT         0x5f5000   0x165000
 4 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
 5 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
 6 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
 7 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
 8 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
 9 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
--- Load Commands written to Output File ---
Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:         =
 0)
Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 (sz:   =
0x1c6000)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d5000 (sz:     =
0xf000)
        section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 (sz:     =
0xaec4)
        section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 (sz:      =
0x2c4)
        section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 (sz:      =
0x9c8)
        section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c (sz:       =
0x1c)
        section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 (sz:     =
0x2748)
        section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 (sz:     =
0x8f28)
        section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f38 (sz:   =
0x41GCL
(GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
Building symbol table for
/private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/=
raw
_bar.tmp ..
loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_export.ls=
p
Initializing gcl_defmacro.o
Initializing gcl_evalmacros.o
Initializing gcl_top.o
Initializing gcl_module.o
loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_autoload.=
lsp

>
NIL

>
#<"COMPILER" package>

>
#<"SLOOP" package>

>
#<"SERROR" package>

>
#<"ANSI-LOOP" package>

>
#<"DEFPACKAGE" package>

>
#<"TK" package>

>
#<"SYSTEM" package>

SYSTEM>
*COMMAND-ARGS*

SYSTEM>Initializing gcl_predlib.o
Initializing gcl_setf.o
Initializing gcl_arraylib.o
Initializing gcl_assert.o
Initializing gcl_defstruct.o
Initializing gcl_describe.o
Initializing gcl_iolib.o
Initializing gcl_listlib.o
Initializing gcl_mislib.o
Initializing gcl_numlib.o
Initializing gcl_packlib.o
Initializing gcl_seq.o
Initializing gcl_seqlib.o
Initializing gcl_trace.o
Initializing gcl_sloop.o
Initializing gcl_serror.o
Initializing gcl_destructuring_bind.o
Initializing gcl_loop.o
Initializing gcl_defpackage.o
Initializing gcl_make_defpackage.o
Initializing gcl_cmpinline.o
Initializing gcl_cmputil.o
Initializing gcl_debug.o
Initializing gcl_info.o
Initializing gcl_cmptype.o
Initializing gcl_cmpbind.o
Initializing gcl_cmpblock.o
Initializing gcl_cmpcall.o
Initializing gcl_cmpcatch.o
Initializing gcl_cmpenv.o
Initializing gcl_cmpeval.o
Initializing gcl_cmpflet.o
Initializing gcl_cmpfun.o
Initializing gcl_cmpif.o
Initializing gcl_cmplabel.o
Initializing gcl_cmplam.o
Initializing gcl_cmplet.o
Initializing gcl_cmploc.o
Initializing gcl_cmpmap.o
Initializing gcl_cmpmulti.o
Initializing gcl_cmpspecial.o
Initializing gcl_cmptag.o
Initializing gcl_cmptop.o
Initializing gcl_cmpvar.o
Initializing gcl_cmpvs.o
Initializing gcl_cmpwt.o

Loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/sys-proclaim.=
lis
p
Finished loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/sys-proclaim.=
lis
p
Loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/sys-procla=
im.
lisp
Finished loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/sys-procla=
im.
lisp
Loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../gcl-tk/tk-package=
.ls
p
Finished loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../gcl-tk/tk-package=
.ls
p
Loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_cmpmai=
n.l
sp
Warning: COMPILE-FILE is being redefined.
Warning: COMPILE is being redefined.
Warning: DISASSEMBLE is being redefined.
Finished loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_cmpmai=
n.l
sp
Loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_lfun_l=
ist
.lsp
Finished loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_lfun_l=
ist
.lsp
Loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_cmpopt=
.ls
p
Finished loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_cmpopt=
.ls
p
Loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_auto_new.=
lsp
Finished loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_auto_new.=
lsp

T

>DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
heap_end:        0xb09000
core_end:        0xb0a000
mach_brkpt:     0x57df000
mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
--- List of All Regions ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
--- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
--- Header Information ---
Magic      =3D 0xfeedface
CPUType    =3D 18
CPUSubType =3D 0
FileType   =3D 0x2
NCmds      =3D 11
SizeOfCmds =3D 1744
Flags      =3D 0x00000085
Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x2032c000
Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:     0x1658
--- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
 0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
 1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
                               __text               0x2658   0x1ab044
                               __picsymbol_stub   0x1ad69c     0x18e4
                               __symbol_stub      0x1aef80          0
                               __cstring          0x1aef80    0x15f5c
                               __literal4         0x1c4edc       0x18
                               __literal8         0x1c4ef8      0x108
                               __const            0x1c5000     0x1f9c
                               __eh_frame         0x1c6f9c       0x60
 2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
                               __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
                               __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
                               __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
                               __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
                               __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
                               __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
                               __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d58
 3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000
                               __data             0x5f5000          0
 4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x201c7000   0x165000
 5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
 6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
 7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
 8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
 9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
--- Load Commands written to Output File ---
Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:         =
 0)
Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 (sz:   =
0x1c6000)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 (sz:   =
0x42e000)
        section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 (sz:     =
0xaec4)
        section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 (sz:      =
0x2c4)
        section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 (sz:      =
0x9c8)
        section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c (sz:       =
0x1c)
        section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 (sz:     =
0x2748)
        section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 (sz:     =
0x8f28)
        section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f38 (sz:   =
0x416d58)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb09000 (sz:   =
0x515000)
Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at   0xb09000 -   0xc6d1d4 (sz:   =
0x1641d4)
Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
3948 unused bytes follow Mach-O header

"bar"

ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ ./foo
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/

>si::*load-types*

(".o" ".lsp" ".lisp")

>(+ 1 1)

2

>(quit)

ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ ./bar
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/

>si::*load-types*

(".o" ".lsp" ".lisp")

>(+ 1 1)

2

>(quit)

ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $

-----------

Besides the difference in size in the images, I don't see any
other visible problems. Does the output from the save-system
and compiler::link help? I have no idea what it should look
like.

>=20
> Lastly, you all in the axiom world might like to know that I'm about
> to release an HOL88 Debian package build atop GCL.  In addition to
> providing an alternate theorem proving environment, one also has the
> ML language built into the same image for potential use by axiom.
> More on this later.
>=20

That sounds very interesting.

I think we need to move this part of the message to a more conspicuous
place. :-)

Thanks.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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> On October 21, 2006 4:05 PM Camm Maguire wrote:
> ... 
> 
> Lastly, you all in the axiom world might like to know that I'm about
> to release an HOL88 Debian package build atop GCL.  In addition to
> providing an alternate theorem proving environment, one also has the
> ML language built into the same image for potential use by axiom.
> More on this later.
> 

I would like to hear more about how to build Axiom with ML built
in to the same image!

Thanks.

Bill Page.





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> BTW, I have been thinking about changing "axiom--test--1" (which

If you bring axiom--test--1 up to silver I'll check in the 
--patch-51 changes so far.

arch is much easier to maintain for me.

t




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> Note: We can achieve that same affect with an unmodified version
> of noweb if we use Norman Ramsey's suggested filter. See extensive
> discussion of this in the email archive.

why not submit a patch to build-improvements that works just like
the gold version but uses the suggested filter? just make sure that
all of the noweb patches are properly covered.

t



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> You are right and the Makefile is wrong. Everything with extension
> .pamphlet should be processed by noweave before calling latex.

nope. that's not the case.

noweb is just a preprocessing tool, not a requirement for 
literate programming.

there is no requirement (or intended requirement) that a .pamphlet
file implies running noweb. some of the files in any documented
axiom system will not contain code and will not need noweb. they
are, however, perfectly vaild .pamphlet files.

t



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On 10/22/2006 12:42 AM, root wrote:
>> You are right and the Makefile is wrong. Everything with extension
>> .pamphlet should be processed by noweave before calling latex.
> 
> nope. that's not the case.
> 
> noweb is just a preprocessing tool, not a requirement for 
> literate programming.
> 
> there is no requirement (or intended requirement) that a .pamphlet
> file implies running noweb. some of the files in any documented
> axiom system will not contain code and will not need noweb. they
> are, however, perfectly vaild .pamphlet files.
> 
> t

Please define the format of a .pamphlet file so that people can write 
tools to support that format. (If the format is moving, that is not a 
problem, but we should always have an up-to-date description of that 
format.)

Up to now I thought the format is like the one in noweb, but already 
with your patch to noweb, you modified that. Without a documented format 
we end up like SPAD is now. A language without formal specification. 
Good luck.

Ralf



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To: Ralf HEMMECKE <hemmecke@risc.uni-linz.ac.at>,
	Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Aldor extend for extending Axiom code
References: <9qy7r9qx78.fsf@aquin.mat.univie.ac.at>
From: Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at>
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I just checked in the first attempt to an axiom-port of
aldor-combinat. Unfortunately, we won't get anywhere with the current abilities
of axiom and the aldor interface.

Meanwhile, we would need both "extend" and dependent types to work. Details: 

We define LabelType as follows: (the types from libaldor like PrimitiveType are
translated into types for axiom using some source macros)

define LabelType: Category == with {
        PrimitiveType;
        OutputType;
        elements: () -> Generator %;
}

Now we would like to extend the domain with signature 

Set(S:SetCategory): FiniteSetAggregate S == add { ... } to be a combinatorial species:

extend Set(L: LabelType): CombinatorialSpecies L == add {
        <<implementation: SetSpecies>>
}

However: "extend" does not work. Well, there is an easy workaround, but it's ugly:

IntegerLabel: LabelType with {
        coerce: Integer -> %;
} == add {
        Rep == Integer;
        coerce(a: Integer): % == per a;
        (a: %) = (b: %): Boolean == (rep a) = (rep b);
        coerce(a: %): OutputForm == coerce (rep a);
        import from Integer;
        elements(): Generator % == generate {
                for i: Integer in 1 .. repeat yield per i;
        }
}


The second restriction is more severe. In fact, I think it's a show
stopper. The current signature of Plus is

Plus(
    F: (T: LabelType) -> CombinatorialSpecies(T),
    G: (T: LabelType) -> CombinatorialSpecies(T)
)(L: LabelType): CombinatorialSpecies(L) == add { ... }

Although this compiles and loads well, we get 

)sh Plus
 Plus(F: (LabelType -> CombinatorialSpecies T),G: (LabelType ->
 CombinatorialSpecies T))  is a domain constructor
 Abbreviation for Plus is PLUS 
 This constructor is exposed in this frame.
 Issue )edit species.as to see algebra source code for PLUS 

------------------------------- Operations --------------------------------
 Plus(F,G) is a domain constructor.
 Abbreviation for Plus is PLUS 
 This constructor is exposed in this frame.
 Issue )edit species.as to see algebra source code for PLUS 

------------------------------- Operations --------------------------------


That's it. In fact, we cannot even really try to use it:

(5) -> Plus(SingletonSpecies, SingletonSpecies) IntegerLabel
 
   Although SingletonSpecies is the name of a constructor, a full type 
      must be specified in the context you have used it. Issue )show 
      SingletonSpecies for more information.

depressing.

Martin

Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at> writes:

> Dear Peter,
> 
> since I managed to have axiom and aldor work together again (I HATE MAKE: 2
> hours), I'm currently trying to get our aldor-combinat package running in
> Axiom, by coding a compatibility layer to libaldor, i.e., reimplementing those
> things we need from libaldor in axiom.
> 
> To this end, it would be great if the "extend" keyword would work. Currently,
> it doesn't seem to.
> 
> Do you have an idea why and - to me probably more important - is there a chance
> to get it running?
> 
> Here is an example file:
> 
> #include "axiom"
> 
> extend Integer: with {
> 	foo: % -> %
> } == add {
> 	foo(a: %): % == {
> 		output("Hi")$OutputPackage; 
> 		output(coerce(a))$OutputPackage;
> 		output("Ho")$OutputPackage; 
> 		a;
> 	}
> }
> 
> And here is what I get:
> 
> )co peter.as
>    Compiling AXIOM source code from file peter.as using AXIOM-XL 
>       compiler and options 
> -O -Fasy -Fao -Flsp -laxiom -Mno-AXL_W_WillObsolete -DAxiom -Y $AXIOM/algebra
>       Use the system command )set compiler args to change these 
>       options.
> #1 (Warning) Deprecated message prefix: use `ALDOR_' instead of `_AXL'
>    Compiling Lisp source code from file ./peter.lsp
>    Issuing )library command for peter
>    Reading /users/rubey/martin/Axiom/peter.asy
>    Integer is already explicitly exposed in frame frame0 
>    Integer will be automatically loaded when needed from 
>       /users/rubey/martin/Axiom/peter
> (1) -> foo 2
>    Hi
>  
>    >> System error:
>    Bind stack overflow.
> 
> (1) -> 1+1
> 
> Integer
>  
>    >> System error:
>    FOAM-USER::|fiRaiseException| is invalid as a function.
> 
> (1) -> foo 2
>    Hi
> Integer
>  
>    >> System error:
>    FOAM-USER::|fiRaiseException| is invalid as a function.
> 
> Martin
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Axiom-developer mailing list
> Axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiom-developer




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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
To: "'Ralf Hemmecke'" <ralf@hemmecke.de>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
Date: Sat, 21 Oct 2006 19:27:46 -0400
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> 
> > On 10/22/2006 12:42 AM, Bill Page wrote:
> >> You are right and the Makefile is wrong. Everything with extension
> >> .pamphlet should be processed by noweave before calling latex.
> > 
> > nope. that's not the case.
> >

????
 
> > noweb is just a preprocessing tool, not a requirement for 
> > literate programming.
> >

Well, yah. That's true.

 
> > there is no requirement (or intended requirement) that a .pamphlet
> > file implies running noweb. some of the files in any documented
> > axiom system will not contain code and will not need noweb. they
> > are, however, perfectly vaild .pamphlet files.
> >

Tim, that's just stupid. A .pamphlet file has to have a well defined
format or it's useless. Why not just call then .apple or .macintosh
files, then? ;)

I didn't mean *necessarily* noweb, but right now that is the best
definition we have of what a pamphlet file is.

On October 21, 2006 7:09 PM Ralf Hemmecke wrote: 
>  
> Please define the format of a .pamphlet file so that people can
> write tools to support that format. (If the format is moving,
> that is not a problem, but we should always have an up-to-date
> description of that format.)
> 

I agree. Or rather I would very much prefer to *define* .pamphlet
format as *exactly* the same as noweb format. That way we can
forget about it and do something more important then vaguely
trying to re-invent the wheel ... or something sort of round
that rolls and makes transportation easy ... whatever that
might be. ;)

> Up to now I thought the format is like the one in noweb, but
> already with your patch to noweb, you modified that. Without a 
> documented format we end up like SPAD is now. A language without
> formal specification. 
> Good luck.
> 

Good grief!

Regards,
Bill Page.





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> The second restriction is more severe. In fact, I think it's a show
> stopper. The current signature of Plus is
> 
> Plus(
>     F: (T: LabelType) -> CombinatorialSpecies(T),
>     G: (T: LabelType) -> CombinatorialSpecies(T)
> )(L: LabelType): CombinatorialSpecies(L) == add { ... }
> 
> Although this compiles and loads well, we get 
> 
> )sh Plus
>  Plus(F: (LabelType -> CombinatorialSpecies T),G: (LabelType ->
>  CombinatorialSpecies T))  is a domain constructor
>  Abbreviation for Plus is PLUS 
>  This constructor is exposed in this frame.
>  Issue )edit species.as to see algebra source code for PLUS 
> 
> ------------------------------- Operations --------------------------------
>  Plus(F,G) is a domain constructor.
>  Abbreviation for Plus is PLUS 
>  This constructor is exposed in this frame.
>  Issue )edit species.as to see algebra source code for PLUS 
> 
> ------------------------------- Operations --------------------------------
> 
> 
> That's it. In fact, we cannot even really try to use it:
> 
> (5) -> Plus(SingletonSpecies, SingletonSpecies) IntegerLabel
>  
>    Although SingletonSpecies is the name of a constructor, a full type 
>       must be specified in the context you have used it. Issue )show 
>       SingletonSpecies for more information.
> 
> depressing.

Well, you are pretty far. Congratulations.

I have a feeling why

Plus(SingletonSpecies, SingletonSpecies) IntegerLabel

does not work. It is probably for the same reason that you cannot put 
elements of type (T: LabelType) -> CombinatorialSpecies(T) into a list.

Maybe a rewrite with your LabelSpecies and "coerce" would do the job.

But that is ugly!!!

*We desparately need an open aldor compiler that can help the Axiom 
interpreter.*

Ralf



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Gaby, you probably know this, but just in case: running
| Rosetta.pamphlet trough noweb messes it. This is using
| Debian noweb. Package identification:
|  
| ii  nowebm         2.10c-3.3      A WEB-like literate-programming tool

Thanks; I was completely unaware of this issue.

-- Gaby



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> Up to now I thought the format is like the one in noweb, but already 
> with your patch to noweb, you modified that. Without a documented format 
> we end up like SPAD is now. A language without formal specification. 
> Good luck.

It seems that you've tripped across a noweb bug and called it a feature.
The noweb tool mangles files. We need to fix it.

The [[ form is valid axiom syntax and should not be wholly owned by noweb.
(e.g [[1,2],[3,4]]). We can step around the noweb bug by simply placing a
space between the [[ form (e.g [ [) in the Rosetta document. I did that 
in the Axiom book. Or we could outlaw the [[ noweb form, since it is
trivial to write the correct latex.

In all of axiom there are straight latex files and many that include
extensions for including code in a verbatim manner. These are the
only features in use that I'm aware of:

0) straight latex, the base case

1) Definition and use, hashing strings to text blocks

<<chunk>>=
@

<<chunk>>

2) Definition extension, adding to existing hash entries

<<chunk>>=
@
<<chunk>>=
@

3) special symbol quoting, latex synomym for \verb usage

[[thing]]


If we were to require that ALL files MUST be passed thru noweb then
there are more changes required to noweb.  In particular, noweb needs
to ensure that it produces a valid latex file from a latex file. It
can do this by inserting a \usepackage if it finds <<>>= or [[]] usage
and one is not provided. Or it should "inline" the noweb latex definitions.
Or if there is no \usepackage for noweb, then do nothing harmful.

Although noweb implements three of four features I don't see it as a
requirement. Indeed there has been discussion of other formats such as

* ALLPROSE, 
* "booklets", which are pamphlets where the chunk names optionally 
              contain URIs, see src/doc/booklet.c.pamphlet
* latex macro forms which replace the <<>> syntax with 
              \begin{chunk}{chunkname}, not yet public.

I agree that it is reasonable to try to define what a pamphlet file
format is and that we should create a DOCUMENT command and style files
that handles any valid pamphlet file correctly. Indeed, that was the
original motivation for the document command; to hide these details.

But we haven't even figured out how we plan to handle multiple
embedded \usepackage lines, hyperlinks, indexing, bibtex,
animated gifs, or video clips.

I think that we need to lift our eyes away from "what is" and focus
a bit on the future. It is too early to state that noweb is THE format 
that will carry us onward. Drag-and-drop allows dragged files to be
exported in more than one format which may require additional support
within the pamphlet file structure. Pamphlet files need to consider
cases of standalone, embedded (e.g. as book chapters), and 
conflated (collections of partial sections into "topical booklets"
that slice "across pamphlets" such as an ALL-MATRIX booklet")
files which the document command might produce.

The 30-year-horizon won't be reached by limiting our imagination
to our current tools. Research projects demand experimentation,
not standardization. The question of what is a valid pamphlet
file requires definition, not standardization. We need to be able
to expand, extend, and warp the definition as we learn, not fix
on a trivial preprocessing tool as "the standard". 

Think 30 year horizon.

t










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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

[...]

| Note: We can achieve that same affect with an unmodified version
| of noweb if we use Norman Ramsey's suggested filter.

That would be my preference.

-- Gaby



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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

| Ralf,
| 
| Thanks for taking this issue to a proper conclusion. :-)
| 
| On October 21, 2006 4:24 PM you wrote:
| > ... 
| > OK let's do the same thing with the patch.
| > 
| > $AXIOM/bin/lib/noweave -delay Rosetta.pamphlet > Rosetta1.tex
| > 
| > That leads to the line
| > 
| > \Axiom       & set [1, 2] & [1, 2]    & matrix({\tt{}1,\ 2],[3,\ 4})
| >          \\
| > 
| > and you certainly agree that the original definition of \tt does not
| > produce [[ in the output.
| > 
| > latex Rosetta.tex
| > 
| > succeeds but the output is simply wrong. The patch is a misfeature!!!
| >
| 
| Yes, now I do agree. I think the patched noweb should be eliminated.

The build-improvements branch does not apply Tim's patch.

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

|                      The question of what is a valid pamphlet
| file requires definition, not standardization.

In this specific case, from my perspective, that is the same thing.
People need to communicate and they need to agree on a protocol.
The protocol can and should evolve, but there needs to be agreement on
what is what.  Otherwise, we'll be lost in a 30-light-year deep black hole.

-- Gaby



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> |                      The question of what is a valid pamphlet
> | file requires definition, not standardization.
> 
> In this specific case, from my perspective, that is the same thing.
> People need to communicate and they need to agree on a protocol.
> The protocol can and should evolve, but there needs to be agreement on
> what is what.  Otherwise, we'll be lost in a 30-light-year deep black hole.

So if straight latex is the base case of a valid literate pamphlet file 
(since it contains 0 lines of code) then we have a working definition.

There are many ways to implement that definition, maybe use the latex
command directly or fix noweb to stop mangling latex.  noweb applied
to a pamphlet file which does not use noweb should be the identity
function.

noweb has a bug, not a feature.

or make the document command "just work" and do the right thing,
calling noweb only when required.




look to the future. what happens when someone drag-and-drops a
latex file onto axiom that describes a piece of research about
axiom but contains no code? do we mangle it? or do we "just work"?
this is a very likely case for the near future as most research
papers of interest won't contain code yet.




noweb was chosen by me as a simple, language neutral tool that would
achieve the FIRST step of literate programming. there was no intention
of claiming that it was in any way vital or final.

the essense of literate programming can be done without noweb. 

restricting our definition of literate programming to require that we
work on the apt-get version of a non-essential tool which fails to
work properly in the base case seems to me to limit ourselves to a
trivial, broken case of literate programming.

tools limit what you can think.
think, then shape the tools.

t




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--- root <daly@axiom-developer.org> wrote:

> But we haven't even figured out how we plan to handle multiple
> embedded \usepackage lines, hyperlinks, indexing, bibtex,
> animated gifs, or video clips.

Is this a topic of current interest?  I confess it fell off of my radar
screen somewhat, but I do have some ideas I would like to explore.

hyperlinks I think are fairly well addressed by hyperref - maybe a bit
of extension work is needed, but it solves the basic problem at least.

indexing is a bit more of a challenge.  To the best of my knowledge
most indicies are created by humans, since no automatic tool can do a
"context" sensitive indexing.  Since that might prove a bit impractical
for us, we probably need to look into other alternatives.  Some useful
tools might include:
http://www.tug.org/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/entries/addindex.html
http://www.tug.org/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/entries/splitindex.html

I would suggest the following, at least:  a "human generated" list of
key words related to specific topics of interest as the general index,
a "Categories and Domains" index of all such definitions, and perhaps
an Authors index as well.

BibTeX I already did some work with using the packages prepared by the
ToC guys http://theoryofcomputing.org/ (the eprint package), which is
available here: 
http://portal.axiom-developer.org/Members/starseeker/axiombibliographysystem.tar.gz/file_view
It's not very pretty and would need to be strengthened/cleaned up
considerably before being ready for prime time, but I think it did
address some of the original goals for the bibliography.  I don't know
if anyone else agrees with me on the desirability of using MSC2000 and
PACS to make a large scale summary of all works referenced in Axiom by
topic, but I did produce a proof-of-concept document with a limited set
of examples:
http://portal.axiom-developer.org/Members/starseeker/axiombibliography.pdf/file_view

No clue how to deal with animated gifs.

Movies and 3D however have an interesting alternative.  There is a
package called movie15 for LaTeX which can embed some interesting
content in pdf files.  I don't know how many pdf viewers support these
abilities yet, but the U3D file format mentioned here is an interesting
idea for a graphics output target in Axiom and I have been able to view
such a file successfully in Acrobat Reader on Linux in the past.  The
standard document for this format is here:
http://www.ecma-international.org/publications/standards/Ecma-363.htm
and the movie15 page is here:
http://www.ctan.org/tex-archive/help/Catalogue/entries/movie15.html

An obvious problem is how to get this and pstricks to play nice, but it
may be worth looking into.  Perhaps dvipdf could be extended to handle
it the same way it can handle hyperref.

> I think that we need to lift our eyes away from "what is" and focus
> a bit on the future. It is too early to state that noweb is THE
> format that will carry us onward. Drag-and-drop allows dragged files
> to be exported in more than one format which may require additional
> support within the pamphlet file structure. Pamphlet files need to 
> consider cases of standalone, embedded (e.g. as book chapters), and 
> conflated (collections of partial sections into "topical booklets"
> that slice "across pamphlets" such as an ALL-MATRIX booklet")
> files which the document command might produce.

For this I think the first thing to explore is this LaTeX package:
http://www.tug.org/tex-archive/macros/latex/contrib/combine/

I don't know how well it does in practice but conference proceedings
would seem to face many problems similar to the ones we do.

> The 30-year-horizon won't be reached by limiting our imagination
> to our current tools. Research projects demand experimentation,
> not standardization. The question of what is a valid pamphlet
> file requires definition, not standardization. We need to be able
> to expand, extend, and warp the definition as we learn, not fix
> on a trivial preprocessing tool as "the standard". 

However, by the same token we hope to have a HUGE body of work written
in this file format - for those files to remain maintainable and
relevant over time, we need to have most of the fundamentals down
before large scale (re)writing takes place.  At the very least, changes
should be such that they can be applied automatically in most cases to
update files without human intervention.  That means many of these
issues should be resolved sooner rather than later.

Cheers,
CY

__________________________________________________
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> So if straight latex is the base case of a valid literate pamphlet file 
> (since it contains 0 lines of code) then we have a working definition.

Cool, I have never read this somewhere before. ;-)

> There are many ways to implement that definition, maybe use the latex
> command directly or fix noweb to stop mangling latex.  noweb applied
> to a pamphlet file which does not use noweb should be the identity
> function.

> noweb has a bug, not a feature.

Wrong. For your definition, noweb is simply the wrong tool. Norman 
defined his format and where does he say that running noweb over a latex 
file should be the identity?

Anyway, I agree with Bill. We should take the noweb format and 
concentrate on other things until somebody comes and invests lots of 
time to

1) define a good pamphlet format and
2) provide convenient tools to handle this format.

Maybe noweb is not perfect. But it answers 1) and 2) pretty well. And 
seemingly most Axiom developers are happy with it.

If somebody comes forth and defines a new format (clearly that would be 
done in a .pamphlet file), then most developers would first have to 
agree that this is a better format. Then the format translation should 
be done *automatically*.

> or make the document command "just work" and do the right thing,
> calling noweb only when required.

Tim, I think, you are contradicting yourself. You want us to explain 
everything and here the "just works" seems to be stronger than the 
literate document that explains why sometimes one must call noweb and 
sometimes not. BTW, the documentation of "/src/scripts/document" 
explains nothing and thus it does "not just work". It *always* applies 
noweave. ;-)

Ralf



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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | Gaby, you probably know this, but just in case: running
> | Rosetta.pamphlet trough noweb messes it. This is using
> | Debian noweb. Package identification:
> |  
> | ii  nowebm         2.10c-3.3      A WEB-like literate-programming tool
> 
> Thanks; I was completely unaware of this issue.
> 

There are more problems: apparently noweb can not correctly handle
files which have underscores in their names. For example latex run
on src/hyper/parse_aux.tex gives the following errors (I removed
other messages which are caused by the two errors):

! Missing $ inserted.
<inserted text>
                $
l.13 ...aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parse_
                                                  aux.h}\endmoddef\nwstartde...

.....
! Missing $ inserted.
<inserted text>
                $
l.742 \LA{}parse_
                 aux.c\RA{}

similar for other files containing underscores in their names. It
looks that silver somewhat handles this problem (Tim's patches ???). 



-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
To: "'Waldek Hebisch'" <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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On October 22, 2006 9:39 AM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> >=20
> > | ii  nowebm         2.10c-3.3      A WEB-like=20
> > |     literate-programming tool
> >=20
> ...=20
> There are more problems: apparently noweb can not correctly
> handle files which have underscores in their names.

?

I do not get any errors in files containing _ in either Tim's
version distributed with Gold nor with a more recent unmodified
version of noweb (noweb-2.11b).

> For example latex run on src/hyper/parse_aux.tex gives the
> following errors (I removedother messages which are caused by
> the two errors):
>=20
> ! Missing $ inserted.
> <inserted text>
>                 $
> l.13 ...aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parse_
>                                                  =20
> aux.h}\endmoddef\nwstartde...
>=20
> .....
> ! Missing $ inserted.
> <inserted text>
>                 $
> l.742 \LA{}parse_
>                  aux.c\RA{}
>=20
> similar for other files containing underscores in their names.
> It looks that silver somewhat handles this problem (Tim's
> patches ???).=20
>=20

Here is my console log:

[page@axiom-developer hyper]$ noweave -delay parse_aux.pamphlet >
parse_aux.tex
[page@axiom-developer hyper]$ latex parse_aux.tex
This is pdfeTeX, Version 3.141592-1.21a-2.2 (Web2C 7.5.4)
entering extended mode
(./parse_aux.tex
LaTeX2e <2003/12/01>
Babel <v3.8d> and hyphenation patterns for american, french, german,
ngerman, b
ahasa, basque, bulgarian, catalan, croatian, czech, danish, dutch,
esperanto, e
stonian, finnish, greek, icelandic, irish, italian, latin, magyar, =
norsk,
polis
h, portuges, romanian, russian, serbian, slovak, slovene, spanish, =
swedish,
tur
kish, ukrainian, nohyphenation, loaded.
(/usr/local/teTeX/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/article.cls
Document Class: article 2004/02/16 v1.4f Standard LaTeX document class
(/usr/local/teTeX/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/size10.clo))
(/usr/local/teTeX/share/texmf-dist/tex/latex/base/axiom.sty)
(./parse_aux.aux)
[1] (./parse_aux.toc) [2] [3] [4] [5] [6]
Overfull \hbox (89.24922pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 161--161
 []\OT1/cmtt/m/n/10 read_ht_file(HashTable *page_hash, HashTable
*macro_hash, H
ashTable *patch_hash, FILE *db_fp, char *db_file)[]
[7]
Overfull \hbox (20.99982pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 236--236
 []                \OT1/cmtt/m/n/10 fprintf(stderr, "(HyperDoc)
read_ht_file: H
yperDoc file %s has been updated\n",[]

Overfull \hbox (5.24995pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 239--239
 []                \OT1/cmtt/m/n/10 fprintf(stderr, "(HyperDoc) Issue =
htadd
%s
to update database\n", fullname);[]
[8]
Overfull \hbox (31.49973pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 261--261
 []                        \OT1/cmtt/m/n/10 fprintf(stderr, "(HyperDoc) =
Page
na
me %s  occurred twice\n", page->name);[]

Overfull \hbox (20.99982pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 286--286
 []                            \OT1/cmtt/m/n/10 fprintf(stderr, =
"(HyperDoc)
The
 Version in %s is being ignored \n",[]
[9]
Overfull \hbox (41.99963pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 309--309
 []                        \OT1/cmtt/m/n/10 fprintf(stderr, "(HyperDoc)
Patch n
ame %s  occurred twice\n", patch->name);[]

Overfull \hbox (41.99963pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 318--318
 []                    \OT1/cmtt/m/n/10 fprintf(stderr, "(HyperDoc)
read_ht_db:
 Unknown type %s in ht.db\n", token.id);[]
[10]
Overfull \hbox (15.74986pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 371--371
 []            \OT1/cmtt/m/n/10 link->win =3D XCreateWindow(gXDisplay,
gWindow->f
DisplayedWindow, 0, 0, 100, 100, 0,[]
[11] [12] [13] [14] [15]
Overfull \hbox (57.7495pt too wide) in paragraph at lines 586--586
 []        \OT1/cmtt/m/n/10 fprintf(stderr, "(HyperDoc) Error trying to =
read
%s
, unexpected end-of-file.\n",db_file_name);[]
[16] [17] [18] [19] [20] (./parse_aux.aux) )
(see the transcript file for additional information)
Output written on parse_aux.dvi (20 pages, 23836 bytes).
Transcript written on parse_aux.log.

-----------

Same result with

[page@axiom-developer hyper]$ /usr/local/axiom/mnt/linux/bin/lib/noweave =
\
  -delay parse_aux.pamphlet > parse_aux2.tex

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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On October 22, 2006 9:39 AM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
>
> For example latex run on src/hyper/parse_aux.tex gives the
> following errors (I removedother messages which are caused by
> the two errors):
> 
> ! Missing $ inserted.
> <inserted text>
>                 $
> l.13 ...aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parse_
>                                                   
> aux.h}\endmoddef\nwstartde...
> ... 

On October 22, 2006 10:04 AM I wrote:
> 
> I do not get any errors in files containing _ in either Tim's
> version distributed with Gold nor with a more recent unmodified
> version of noweb (noweb-2.11b).
> 

In contrast to the output which Waldek shows, in both versions
of noweb run on axiom-developer.org the _ is removed from the
generated noweb commands.\:

\section{parse\_aux.h}
\nwfilename{parse_aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parseaux.h}\endmoddef
\LA{}license\RA{}

-----

Could this be a LOCALE/LANG issue? Or is this behaviour specific
to the version of noweb distributed by Debian?

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Bill Page wrote:
> On October 22, 2006 9:39 AM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> >
> > For example latex run on src/hyper/parse_aux.tex gives the
> > following errors (I removedother messages which are caused by
> > the two errors):
> > 
> > ! Missing $ inserted.
> > <inserted text>
> >                 $
> > l.13 ...aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parse_
> >                                                   
> > aux.h}\endmoddef\nwstartde...
> > ... 
> 
> On October 22, 2006 10:04 AM I wrote:
> > 
> > I do not get any errors in files containing _ in either Tim's
> > version distributed with Gold nor with a more recent unmodified
> > version of noweb (noweb-2.11b).
> > 
> 
> In contrast to the output which Waldek shows, in both versions
> of noweb run on axiom-developer.org the _ is removed from the
> generated noweb commands.\:
> 
> \section{parse\_aux.h}
> \nwfilename{parse_aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parseaux.h}\endmoddef
> \LA{}license\RA{}
> 
> -----
> 
> Could this be a LOCALE/LANG issue? Or is this behaviour specific
> to the version of noweb distributed by Debian?
> 

On 32-bit Debian Sarge with "nowebm 2.10c-3.2" I get the output you
show. But on 64-bit Debian testing/unstable using "nowebm 2.10c-3.3"
I get:

\section{parse\_aux.h}
\nwfilename{parse_aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parse_aux.h}\endmoddef\nwstartdeflinemarkup\nwenddeflinemarkup
\LA{}license\RA{}


Note that strictly speaking both forms are problematic: the first mangles
names, the second passes naked underscore to latex (maybe the intention
was to update '\moddef' so that it can handle underscores).

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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To: "'Ralf Hemmecke'" <ralf@hemmecke.de>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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On October 22, 2006 9:15 AM Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
> Tim Daly wrote: 
> > So if straight latex is the base case of a valid literate 
> > pamphlet file (since it contains 0 lines of code) then we
> > have a working definition.
> 
> Cool, I have never read this somewhere before. ;-)
>

Yes, one might have thought that Knuth would have started with
a definition like this, wouldn't you? But he didn't.
 
> > There are many ways to implement that definition, maybe use
> > the latex command directly or fix noweb to stop mangling latex.
> > noweb applied to a pamphlet file which does not use noweb
> > should be the identity function.
> 
> > noweb has a bug, not a feature.
> 
> Wrong. For your definition, noweb is simply the wrong tool.
> Norman defined his format and where does he say that running
> noweb over a latex file should be the identity?

Ralf is correct. Tim is wrong. We can not say that noweb has a
bug. However I do agree that it is a pity that noweb wasn't
designed the way Tim suggests. This would have been nice but
perhaps it conflicts with other design goals that Norman had in
mind when he wrote noweb.

> 
> Anyway, I agree with Bill. We should take the noweb format and 
> concentrate on other things until somebody comes and invests
> lots of time to
> 
> 1) define a good pamphlet format and
> 2) provide convenient tools to handle this format.
> 
> Maybe noweb is not perfect. But it answers 1) and 2) pretty well.
> And seemingly most Axiom developers are happy with it.
>

And I agree with Ralf... :-) Axiom is an open source project. As
such it should "play nicely" with the rest of the open source
development community and collaborate with the authors of the
tools on which we depend. We can not afford the time and resouces
to solve all of these problems for ourselves or else we will never
get around to actually implementing new computer algebra! We *must*
take advantage of the open source development environment and
depend on other open source developers to provide the tools.
 
> If somebody comes forth and defines a new format (clearly that
> would be done in a .pamphlet file), then most developers would
> first have to agree that this is a better format. Then the format 
> translation should be done *automatically*.

As I have said before in this frequently recurring discussion,
*if* we were to choose a new literate programming tool, then I
would much prefer a more radical solution than simply changing
the underlying file format. There are much better tools available
for literate programming, such as Leo, which provide a complete
and integrated literate programming environment.

> ...

Regards,
Bill Page.





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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
To: "'Norman Ramsey'" <nr@eecs.harvard.edu>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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I think we should ask Norman Ramsey about this "name mangling".

Does it have a nice solution that would allow us to use
the version(s) of noweb distributed by Debian?

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Waldek Hebisch [mailto:hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl] 
> Sent: October 22, 2006 11:01 AM
> To: Bill Page
> Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org; 'Waldek Hebisch'; 
> 'Gabriel@math.uni.wroc.pl; Dos@math.uni.wroc.pl; Reis'
> Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
> 
> 
> Bill Page wrote:
> > On October 22, 2006 9:39 AM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> > >
> > > For example latex run on src/hyper/parse_aux.tex gives the
> > > following errors (I removedother messages which are caused by
> > > the two errors):
> > > 
> > > ! Missing $ inserted.
> > > <inserted text>
> > >                 $
> > > l.13 ...aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parse_
> > >                                                   
> > > aux.h}\endmoddef\nwstartde...
> > > ... 
> > 
> > On October 22, 2006 10:04 AM I wrote:
> > > 
> > > I do not get any errors in files containing _ in either Tim's
> > > version distributed with Gold nor with a more recent unmodified
> > > version of noweb (noweb-2.11b).
> > > 
> > 
> > In contrast to the output which Waldek shows, in both versions
> > of noweb run on axiom-developer.org the _ is removed from the
> > generated noweb commands.\:
> > 
> > \section{parse\_aux.h}
> > 
> \nwfilename{parse_aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parseaux
> .h}\endmoddef
> > \LA{}license\RA{}
> > 
> > -----
> > 
> > Could this be a LOCALE/LANG issue? Or is this behaviour specific
> > to the version of noweb distributed by Debian?
> > 
> 
> On 32-bit Debian Sarge with "nowebm 2.10c-3.2" I get the output you
> show. But on 64-bit Debian testing/unstable using "nowebm 2.10c-3.3"
> I get:
> 
> \section{parse\_aux.h}
> \nwfilename{parse_aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parse_au
> x.h}\endmoddef\nwstartdeflinemarkup\nwenddeflinemarkup
> \LA{}license\RA{}
> 
> 
> Note that strictly speaking both forms are problematic: the 
> first mangles
> names, the second passes naked underscore to latex (maybe the 
> intention
> was to update '\moddef' so that it can handle underscores).
> 
> -- 
>                               Waldek Hebisch
> hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 
> 
> 





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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
...
> Although noweb implements three of four features I don't see it as a
> requirement. Indeed there has been discussion of other formats such as
...
> * latex macro forms which replace the <<>> syntax with
>               \begin{chunk}{chunkname}, not yet public.

Can one infer that there is (the beginnings of) one which is private?

Jay



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> > Although noweb implements three of four features I don't see it as a
> > requirement. Indeed there has been discussion of other formats such as
> ...
> > * latex macro forms which replace the <<>> syntax with
> >               \begin{chunk}{chunkname}, not yet public.
> 
> Can one infer that there is (the beginnings of) one which is private?

yes. i'm learning a lot about the tex language so it's taking time.
latex does similiar processing to handle bibligraphic and index files.

if latex can do code chunks directly, format them properly in
a latex document and dump the code to a file there is no need
for any other tool.

t



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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To: Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 20:09:49 +0200 (CEST)
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From: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Cc: 'Waldek@math.uni.wroc.pl, axiom-developer@nongnu.org,
	'Norman Ramsey' <nr@eecs.harvard.edu>
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Bill Page wrote:
> I think we should ask Norman Ramsey about this "name mangling".
> 
> Does it have a nice solution that would allow us to use
> the version(s) of noweb distributed by Debian?
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Waldek Hebisch [mailto:hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl] 
> > Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
> > 
> > 
> > Bill Page wrote:
> > > On October 22, 2006 9:39 AM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> > > >
> > > > For example latex run on src/hyper/parse_aux.tex gives the
> > > > following errors (I removedother messages which are caused by
> > > > the two errors):
> > > > 
> > > > ! Missing $ inserted.
> > > > <inserted text>
> > > >                 $
> > > > l.13 ...aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parse_
> > > >                                                   
> > > > aux.h}\endmoddef\nwstartde...
> > > > ... 
> > 
> > On 32-bit Debian Sarge with "nowebm 2.10c-3.2" I get the output you
> > show. But on 64-bit Debian testing/unstable using "nowebm 2.10c-3.3"
> > I get:
> > 
> > \section{parse\_aux.h}
> > \nwfilename{parse_aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parse_au
> > x.h}\endmoddef\nwstartdeflinemarkup\nwenddeflinemarkup
> > \LA{}license\RA{}
> > 
> > 

Correction: both verion of noweb give the same result. The real reason
is that parse_aux.pamphlet in build-improvements is modified:

--- ../../silver/axiom/src/hyper/parse_aux.pamphlet     2006-10-20 23:54:15.000000000 +0200
+++ parse_aux.pamphlet  2006-10-22 19:42:42.000000000 +0200
@@ -10,7 +10,7 @@
 \tableofcontents
 \eject
 \section{parse\_aux.h}
-<<parseaux.h>>=
+<<parse_aux.h>>=
 <<license>>
 #ifndef _PARSE_AUX_H_
 #define _PARSE_AUX_H_ 1

and three similar chunks.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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From: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: [Axiom-developer] build-improvement and latex 2
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I needed the patch below to run latex (make dvi) on build-improvements.
This patch does NOT correct the following problems:
1) mangled latex file
     - src/doc/Rosetta.pamphlet
2) unescaped underscores
     - src/hyper/parse_aux.pamphlet
     - src/hyper/parse_paste.pamphlet
     - src/hyper/parse_types.pamphlet
     - src/hyper/show_types.pamphlet
     - configure.ac.pamphlet
3) Axiom book is not build at all

-------------

Corrections:
	* configure.ac.pamphlet: remove '\usepackage{noweb}'
	* Makefile.pamphlet: correct typo '\subusection' ->
	'\subsubsection'
	* src/Makefile.pamphlet: remove bogus patch from '\usepackage'
	line
        * src/hyper/Makefile.pamphlet (hypertex_sources): correct suffix
        to 'scrollbar.c'

diff -ru /home/s/test/tt/axiom1/build-improvements/configure.ac.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/configure.ac.pamphlet
--- /home/s/test/tt/axiom1/build-improvements/configure.ac.pamphlet	2006-10-12 23:34:47.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/configure.ac.pamphlet	2006-10-22 18:16:31.000000000 +0200
@@ -5,7 +5,6 @@
 \usepackage[T1]{fontenc}
 \usepackage{fancyvrb}
 \usepackage{pslatex}
-\usepackage{noweb}
 \usepackage{url}
 
 \newcommand{\file}[1]{\textsf{#1}}
diff -ru /home/s/test/tt/axiom1/build-improvements/src/Makefile.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/Makefile.pamphlet
--- /home/s/test/tt/axiom1/build-improvements/src/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-16 19:30:33.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-22 18:16:49.000000000 +0200
@@ -1,6 +1,6 @@
 %% Oh Emacs, this is a -*- Makefile -*-, so give me tabs.
 \documentclass{article}
-\usepackage{scripts/tex/axiom}
+\usepackage{axiom}
 \begin{document}
 \title{\$SPAD/src Makefile}
 \author{Timothy Daly}
diff -ru /home/s/test/tt/axiom1/build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/hyper/Makefile.pamphlet
--- /home/s/test/tt/axiom1/build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-12 23:34:42.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/hyper/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-22 18:17:19.000000000 +0200
@@ -65,7 +65,7 @@
 		extent2.c form_ext.c group.c halloc.c hash.c hterror.c \
 		htinp.c hyper.c initx.c input.c item.c keyin.c lex.c \
 		macro.c mem.c parse.c parse_aux.c parse_input.c \
-		parse_paste.c parse_types.c ReadBitmap.c scrollbar.o \
+		parse_paste.c parse_types.c ReadBitmap.c scrollbar.c \
 		show_types.c spadint.c titlebar.c
 
 hypertex_SOURCES = $(hypertex_sources:.c=.pamphlet)
--- /home/s/test/tt/axiom1/build-improvements/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-13 20:00:35.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-22 18:20:29.000000000 +0200
@@ -313,7 +313,7 @@
 
 @
 
-\subusection{[[subdir]]}
+\subsubsection{[[subdir]]}
 
 This variable should be defined every Makefile.  It shall contain the
 relative path (ending with a slash) from the toplevel source directory 

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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On October 22, 2006 2:10 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> ...=20
> Correction: both verion of noweb give the same result. The real
> reason is that parse_aux.pamphlet in build-improvements is modified:
>=20
> --- ../../silver/axiom/src/hyper/parse_aux.pamphlet    =20
> 2006-10-20 23:54:15.000000000 +0200
> +++ parse_aux.pamphlet  2006-10-22 19:42:42.000000000 +0200
> @@ -10,7 +10,7 @@
>  \tableofcontents
>  \eject
>  \section{parse\_aux.h}
> -<<parseaux.h>>=3D
> +<<parse_aux.h>>=3D
>  <<license>>
>  #ifndef _PARSE_AUX_H_
>  #define _PARSE_AUX_H_ 1
>=20
> and three similar chunks.
>=20

The following changeset annotation

http://page.axiom-developer.org/darcsweb.cgi?r=3Daxiom.build-improvements=
;a=3Dan
notate_shade;f=3D/src/hyper/parse_aux.pamphlet

Shows that Gaby made the change to include the underscore _
on 2006-09-18.

Regards,
Bill Page.






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On 10/22/2006 07:31 PM, root wrote:
>>> Although noweb implements three of four features I don't see it as a
>>> requirement. Indeed there has been discussion of other formats such as
>> ...
>>> * latex macro forms which replace the <<>> syntax with
>>>               \begin{chunk}{chunkname}, not yet public.
>> Can one infer that there is (the beginnings of) one which is private?
> 
> yes. i'm learning a lot about the tex language so it's taking time.
> latex does similiar processing to handle bibligraphic and index files.
> 
> if latex can do code chunks directly, format them properly in
> a latex document and dump the code to a file there is no need
> for any other tool.

I am not sure whether I should support that, but surely formatting of 
code chunks is not a problem. Already the verbatim or fancyvrb packages 
can do that. Maybe the listings package is well suited for this task.

When it comes to code generation, that is probably getting a bit tricky. 
Suppose you want to have

\begin{chunk}{chunkname}
b: Boolean := true;
for i in mylist repeat {
	\usechunk{anotherchunk}
	b := b/\odd? i;
}
\end{chunk}

If you produce TeX code that can master that correctly, I'll call you a 
TeX-guru. (Note that I mean /\ and not \odd.) That the braces after 
\usechunk are treated differently than the braces of 'repeat'. But that 
is probably an easier exercise.

TeX can write files, but note that before it has to bring the code 
chunks into the right order. That basically means that TeX must keep the 
whole file in memory if the <<*>> definition comes at the end. One 
problem here is that not every TeX-installation has set the pool sizes 
high enough. So I expect that the TeX approach very much depends on the 
TeX installation and cannot "just work".

And last, I don't think that the TeX approach will be faster than noweb.

Just my two cents on that approach.

Ralf



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex 
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	message dated "Sun, 22 Oct 2006 11:23:30 -0400."
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 > I think we should ask Norman Ramsey about this "name mangling".
 > 
 > Does it have a nice solution that would allow us to use
 > the version(s) of noweb distributed by Debian?

Sounds like you guys have a local hack.

The underscore issue is a FAQ.


Norman


 > 
 > > -----Original Message-----
 > > From: Waldek Hebisch [mailto:hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl] 
 > > Sent: October 22, 2006 11:01 AM
 > > To: Bill Page
 > > Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org; 'Waldek Hebisch'; 
 > > 'Gabriel@math.uni.wroc.pl; Dos@math.uni.wroc.pl; Reis'
 > > Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
 > > 
 > > 
 > > Bill Page wrote:
 > > > On October 22, 2006 9:39 AM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
 > > > >
 > > > > For example latex run on src/hyper/parse_aux.tex gives the
 > > > > following errors (I removedother messages which are caused by
 > > > > the two errors):
 > > > > 
 > > > > ! Missing $ inserted.
 > > > > <inserted text>
 > > > >                 $
 > > > > l.13 ...aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parse_
 > > > >                                                   
 > > > > aux.h}\endmoddef\nwstartde...
 > > > > ... 
 > > > 
 > > > On October 22, 2006 10:04 AM I wrote:
 > > > > 
 > > > > I do not get any errors in files containing _ in either Tim's
 > > > > version distributed with Gold nor with a more recent unmodified
 > > > > version of noweb (noweb-2.11b).
 > > > > 
 > > > 
 > > > In contrast to the output which Waldek shows, in both versions
 > > > of noweb run on axiom-developer.org the _ is removed from the
 > > > generated noweb commands.\:
 > > > 
 > > > \section{parse\_aux.h}
 > > > 
 > > \nwfilename{parse_aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parseaux
 > > .h}\endmoddef
 > > > \LA{}license\RA{}
 > > > 
 > > > -----
 > > > 
 > > > Could this be a LOCALE/LANG issue? Or is this behaviour specific
 > > > to the version of noweb distributed by Debian?
 > > > 
 > > 
 > > On 32-bit Debian Sarge with "nowebm 2.10c-3.2" I get the output you
 > > show. But on 64-bit Debian testing/unstable using "nowebm 2.10c-3.3"
 > > I get:
 > > 
 > > \section{parse\_aux.h}
 > > \nwfilename{parse_aux.pamphlet}\nwbegincode{1}\moddef{parse_au
 > > x.h}\endmoddef\nwstartdeflinemarkup\nwenddeflinemarkup
 > > \LA{}license\RA{}
 > > 
 > > 
 > > Note that strictly speaking both forms are problematic: the 
 > > first mangles
 > > names, the second passes naked underscore to latex (maybe the 
 > > intention
 > > was to update '\moddef' so that it can handle underscores).
 > > 
 > > -- 
 > >                               Waldek Hebisch
 > > hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 
 > > 
 > > 
 > 
 > 



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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
To: "'Norman Ramsey'" <nr@eecs.harvard.edu>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex 
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:30:54 -0400
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Thanks, Norman. I think we figured it out. There is really no
mangling - just an "innocent" change with unexpected behaviour.
Your FAQ is very useful:

http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/nr/noweb/FAQ.html

Q. How do I get an output file (root chunk) with an underscore
  in its name? LaTeX complains about the underscore.

    A. All chunk names are set in ordinary TeX mode. This means
that underscore is a subscript character. Rather than use special
hacks, I just avoid underscores in file names, since I prefer to
use hyphens anyway. However, you can write a simple sed script to
filter the underscores for use by noweave:

      noweave -filter "sed '/^@use /s/_/\\_/g;/^@defn /s/_/\\_/g'"

and the filter will change _ to \_ before TeX sees it. 

-----------

I've got to remember to check the FAQ more often.

Regards,
Bill Page.

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Norman Ramsey [mailto:nr@eecs.harvard.edu] 
> Sent: October 22, 2006 6:38 PM
> To: Bill Page
> Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org; 'Gabriel@math.uni.wroc.pl; 
> Dos@math.uni.wroc.pl; 'Reis''; 'Waldek Hebisch'
> Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex 
> 
> 
>  > I think we should ask Norman Ramsey about this "name mangling".
>  > 
>  > Does it have a nice solution that would allow us to use
>  > the version(s) of noweb distributed by Debian?
> 
> Sounds like you guys have a local hack.
> 
> The underscore issue is a FAQ.
> 
> 
> Norman
> 





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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| the essense of literate programming can be done without noweb. 

I'm glad to hear that; because it was not obvious to me people agreed
when I suggested similar ideas in different terms some months ago.

-- Gaby



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| There are more problems: apparently noweb can not correctly handle
| files which have underscores in their names. For example latex run
| on src/hyper/parse_aux.tex gives the following errors (I removed
| other messages which are caused by the two errors):

I know of that one.  And, actually, my recent tweak to dvi-ax is
supposed to be followed up by a renaming of parse_xxx to parse-xxx.
I did not have time to commit it.

[...]

| similar for other files containing underscores in their names. It
| looks that silver somewhat handles this problem (Tim's patches ???). 

silver escapses the underscore.  build-improvements explicitly removed
the underscore a while ago.

-- Gaby



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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

| On October 22, 2006 9:39 AM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
| > > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > > 
| > > | ii  nowebm         2.10c-3.3      A WEB-like 
| > > |     literate-programming tool
| > > 
| > ... 
| > There are more problems: apparently noweb can not correctly
| > handle files which have underscores in their names.
| 
| ?
| 
| I do not get any errors in files containing _ in either Tim's
| version distributed with Gold nor with a more recent unmodified
| version of noweb (noweb-2.11b).

That is because both say

  <<parse\_aux.h>>=

and not
 
  <<parse_aux.h>>=

as build-improvements does.

-- gaby



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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

| Could this be a LOCALE/LANG issue?

No.  It is an issue on build-improvements while back when I made a
uniform rule to extracting the C files from the pamphlets.

| Or is this behaviour specific
| to the version of noweb distributed by Debian?

No, it is a uniform behaviour of all recent noweb versions.
Noweb is unable to unsecaped "_" in a chunk-name.  

-- Gaby



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To: Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 03:19:56 +0200 (CEST)
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From: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org, 'Norman Ramsey' <nr@eecs.harvard.edu>
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Bill Page wrote:
> Thanks, Norman. I think we figured it out. There is really no
> mangling - just an "innocent" change with unexpected behaviour.
> Your FAQ is very useful:
> 
> http://www.eecs.harvard.edu/nr/noweb/FAQ.html
> 
> Q. How do I get an output file (root chunk) with an underscore
>   in its name? LaTeX complains about the underscore.
> 
>     A. All chunk names are set in ordinary TeX mode. This means
> that underscore is a subscript character. Rather than use special
> hacks, I just avoid underscores in file names, since I prefer to
> use hyphens anyway. However, you can write a simple sed script to
> filter the underscores for use by noweave:
> 
>       noweave -filter "sed '/^@use /s/_/\\_/g;/^@defn /s/_/\\_/g'"
> 
> and the filter will change _ to \_ before TeX sees it. 
> 

The filter from the FAQ does not work. I had to use:

noweave -filter 'sed "/^@use /s/_/\\\\_/g;/^@defn /s/_/\\\\_/g"'

(apstrophes inside filter interacted with quoting inside noweave).


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

[...]

| Shows that Gaby made the change to include the underscore _
| on 2006-09-18.

Yes, that is correct.

-- Gaby



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To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvement and latex 2
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| I needed the patch below to run latex (make dvi) on build-improvements.
| This patch does NOT correct the following problems:
| 1) mangled latex file
|      - src/doc/Rosetta.pamphlet
| 2) unescaped underscores
|      - src/hyper/parse_aux.pamphlet
|      - src/hyper/parse_paste.pamphlet
|      - src/hyper/parse_types.pamphlet
|      - src/hyper/show_types.pamphlet
|      - configure.ac.pamphlet
| 3) Axiom book is not build at all

My plan (and my local changes since last friday) is to rename
parse_xxx to parse-xxx.  I have the changes, but did not get a chance
to commit it.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | There are more problems: apparently noweb can not correctly handle
> | files which have underscores in their names. For example latex run
> | on src/hyper/parse_aux.tex gives the following errors (I removed
> | other messages which are caused by the two errors):
> 
> I know of that one.  And, actually, my recent tweak to dvi-ax is
> supposed to be followed up by a renaming of parse_xxx to parse-xxx.
> I did not have time to commit it.
>

Inspired by noweb FAQ in am testing the following patch -- tohether
with previous patch it allowed me to run 'make dvi' with only two
problems (Rosetta.pamphlet and more-rules.mk). 'more-rules.mk' is
build only during main build, so for standalone 'make dvi' (without
previous build) I had to add it by hand. Now I am tesing full build.

diff -ru build-improvements.nn2/src/hyper/parse_aux.pamphlet build-improvements.nn/src/hyper/parse_aux.pamphlet
--- build-improvements.nn2/src/hyper/parse_aux.pamphlet	2006-10-23 01:38:47.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/hyper/parse_aux.pamphlet	2006-10-23 03:08:28.000000000 +0200
@@ -20,7 +20,7 @@
 
 #endif
 @
-\section{parse_aux.c}
+\section{parse\_aux.c}
 <<parse_aux.c>>=
 #define _PARSE_AUX_C
 #include "useproto.h"
diff -ru build-improvements.nn2/src/scripts/document.in build-improvements.nn/src/scripts/document.in
--- build-improvements.nn2/src/scripts/document.in	2006-10-23 01:38:47.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.nn/src/scripts/document.in	2006-10-23 02:50:15.000000000 +0200
@@ -100,7 +100,8 @@
 
 if test x$do_weave = xyes; then
     file=`basename $1 .pamphlet`
-    $weave -delay $1 > $file.tex
+    $weave -delay -filter 'sed "/^@use /s/_/\\\\_/g;/^@defn /s/_/\\\\_/g"' \
+              $1 > $file.tex
     if test x$do_latex != xyes; then
 	exit 0;
     fi


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 




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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| The filter from the FAQ does not work. I had to use:
| 
| noweave -filter 'sed "/^@use /s/_/\\\\_/g;/^@defn /s/_/\\\\_/g"'
| 
| (apstrophes inside filter interacted with quoting inside noweave).

I'm in the process of "trimming out" other changes I have so that the
file renaming patch can go in.

-- Gaby



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On October 22, 2006 9:30 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> ... 
> Inspired by noweb FAQ in am testing the following patch --
> tohether with previous patch it allowed me to run 'make dvi'
> with only two problems (Rosetta.pamphlet and more-rules.mk).
> 'more-rules.mk' is build only during main build, so for
> standalone 'make dvi' (without previous build) I had to add
> it by hand. Now I am tesing full build.
>

Here is a patch to Rosetta.pamphlet to make it a real pamphlet
(noweb) file: 

[page@axiom-developer doc]$ diff -au Rosetta.pamphlet_orig Rosetta.pamphlet
--- Rosetta.pamphlet_orig       2006-09-11 22:16:29.000000000 -0500
+++ Rosetta.pamphlet    2006-10-22 21:05:28.000000000 -0500
@@ -1,4 +1,4 @@
-\documentclass{book}
+\documentclass{article}
 \normalsize\baselineskip=12pt
 \parskip=0pt
 \parindent=10pt
@@ -15,8 +15,6 @@
 \renewcommand{\textfraction}{.1}
 \renewcommand{\floatpagefraction}{.75}
 %
-\def\chaptername{}
-%
 \catcode`@=11
 \def\ps@plain{\let\@mkboth\@gobbletwo%
      \let\@oddhead\@empty\def\@oddfoot{\sysdetails}
@@ -59,8 +57,6 @@
 \newcommand{\Sumit}{{\sf Sumit}}
 \newcommand{\Yacas}{{\sf Yacas}}

-\chapter{Rosetta Translations}
-
 \section{Introduction}

 The following is a collection of synonyms for various operations in
@@ -268,19 +264,19 @@
 \begin{tabular}{l|lll}
 & \h{Set} & \h{List} & \h{Matrix} \\
 \hline
-\Axiom       & set [1, 2] & [1, 2]    & matrix([[1, 2],[3, 4]])
\\
-\Derive      & \{1, 2\}   & [1, 2]    & [[1,2], [3,4]]
\\
+\Axiom       & set [1, 2] & [1, 2]    & matrix(@[[1, 2],[3, 4]])
\\
+\Derive      & \{1, 2\}   & [1, 2]    & @[[1,2], [3,4]]
\\
 \DoCon       &            &           & \\
-\GAP         & Set([1,2]) & [1, 2]    & [[1,2], [3,4]]\fnm
\\
+\GAP         & Set([1,2]) & [1, 2]    & @[[1,2], [3,4]]\fnm
\\
 \Gmp         &            &           & \\
 \Macsyma     & [1, 2]     & [1, 2]    & matrix([1, 2], [3, 4])
\\
 \Magnus      &            &           & \\
 \Maxima      & [1, 2]     & [1, 2]    & matrix([1, 2], [3, 4])
\\
-\Maple       & \{1, 2\}   & [1, 2]    & matrix([[1, 2], [3, 4]])
\\
+\Maple       & \{1, 2\}   & [1, 2]    & matrix(@[[1, 2], [3, 4]])
\\
 \Mathematica & \{1, 2\}   & \{1, 2\}  & \{\{1, 2\}, \{3, 4\}\}
\\
 \MuPAD       & \{1, 2\}   & [1, 2]    & export(Dom): \q export(linalg):
\\
              &            &           & matrix:= ExpressionField(normal)):
\\
-             &            &           & matrix([[1, 2], [3, 4]])
\\
+             &            &           & matrix(@[[1, 2], [3, 4]])
\\
 \Octave      &            &           & \\
 \Pari        &            &           & \\
 \Reduce      & \{1, 2\}   & \{1, 2\}  & mat((1, 2), (3, 4))
\\
@@ -301,7 +297,7 @@
 \Magnus      &        &            &               & \\
 \Maxima      & x = 0  & l[2]       & m[2, 3]       & length(l)    \\
 \Maple       & x = 0  & l[2]       & m[2, 3]       & nops(l)      \\
-\Mathematica & x == 0 & l[[2]]     & m[[2, 3]]     & Length[l]    \\
+\Mathematica & x == 0 & l@[[2]]     & m@[[2, 3]]     & Length[l]    \\
 \MuPAD       & x = 0  & l[2]       & m[2, 3]       & nops(l)      \\
 \Octave      &        &            &               & \\
 \Pari        &        &            &               & \\
@@ -345,7 +341,7 @@
 \Magnus      &                           & \\
 \Maxima      & mat\_\,ncols(m)           & transpose(matrix(l))
\\
 \Maple       & linalg[coldim](m)         & linalg[transpose](matrix([l]))
\\
-\Mathematica & Dimensions[m][[2]]        & Transpose[\{l\}]
\\
+\Mathematica & Dimensions[m]@[[2]]        & Transpose[\{l\}]
\\
 \MuPAD       & linalg::ncols(m)          & transpose(matrix([l]))\,\fnm
\\
 \Octave      &                           & \\
 \Pari        &                           & \\
@@ -463,8 +459,8 @@
 \Magnus      & \\
 \Maxima      & for x in [2, 3, 5] while x\^{}2 < 10 do print(x)\$
\\
 \Maple       & for x in [2, 3, 5] while x\^{}2 < 10 do print(x) od:
\\
-\Mathematica & For[l = \{2, 3, 5\}, l != \{\} \&\& l[[1]]\^{}2 < 10,
\\
-             & \q l = Rest[l], Print[l[[1]]] ]
\\
+\Mathematica & For[l = \{2, 3, 5\}, l != \{\} \&\& l@[[1]]\^{}2 < 10,
\\
+             & \q l = Rest[l], Print[l@[[1]]] ]
\\
 \MuPAD       & for x in [2, 3, 5] do if x\^{}2 < 10 then print(x) end\_if
\\
              & \q end\_for:
\\
 \Octave      & \\
@@ -683,7 +679,7 @@
 \Magnus      &            &                & \\
 \Maxima      & part(e, 0) & part(e, 1)     & args(e)                 \\
 \Maple       & op(0, e)   & op(1, e)       & [op(e)]                 \\
-\Mathematica & Head[e]    & e[[1]]         & ReplacePart[e, List, 0] \\
+\Mathematica & Head[e]    & e@[[1]]         & ReplacePart[e, List, 0] \\
 \MuPAD       & op(e, 0)   & op(e, 1)       & [op(e)]                 \\
 \Octave      &            &                & \\
 \Pari        &            &                & \\
@@ -789,7 +785,7 @@
 \Maple       & writedata("file", xy);
\\
 \Mathematica & outfile = OpenWrite["file"];
\\
              & Do[WriteString[outfile,
\\
-             & \q xy[[i, 1]], " ", xy[[i, 2]], "$\backslash$n"], \{i, 1,
n\}] \\
+             & \q xy@[[i, 1]], " ", xy@[[i, 2]], "$\backslash$n"], \{i, 1,
n\}] \\
              & Close[outfile];
\\
 \MuPAD       & fprint(Unquoted, Text, "file",
\\
              & \q ("$\backslash$n", xy[i, 1], xy[i, 2]) \$ i = 1..n):
\\
@@ -1513,4 +1509,3 @@
 \end{tt}
 \endgroup
 \end{document}
-

------------

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex 
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	message dated "Mon, 23 Oct 2006 03:19:56 +0200."
Date: Sun, 22 Oct 2006 23:15:31 -0400
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 > The filter from the FAQ does not work. I had to use:
 > 
 > noweave -filter 'sed "/^@use /s/_/\\\\_/g;/^@defn /s/_/\\\\_/g"'
 > 
 > (apstrophes inside filter interacted with quoting inside noweave).

Urk!  At some point I must have changed noweave without changing the FAQ.
Thanks for the bug report; I have now changed the FAQ.


Norman



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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

| Here is a patch to Rosetta.pamphlet to make it a real pamphlet
| (noweb) file: 

This looks OK to me.  Tim?

-- Gaby



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Greetings!  Just checking that my last message hee was not lost.

Take care,

"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

> Camm, 
> 
> On Wednesday, October 18, 2006 11:25 AM you wrote:
> > > 
> > > I have succeeded in compiling gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2 on the
> > > SourceForge compile farm 'ppc-osx3' server, however some patches
> > > were necessary. This machine has Xcode installed by not Fink.
> > > 
> > > First, I checked out gcl-2.6.8pre from cvs on October 15, 2006,
> > > created a tarball and scp'd it and the standard gnu gettext-0.15
> > > and sed-4.1.4 tarballs to my home directory on SourceForge.
> > > 
> > > Next I compiled and installed gettext and sed with
> > >   --prefix=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx
> > > creating the ~/osx/bin and ~/osx/lib directories. These are
> > > apparently required to satisfy the gcl build dependencies on
> > > OSX 10.2. (Note: A Fink installation might also have provided
> > > these in the /sw directory.)
> > > 
> > 
> > I thought that gettext was no longer required, as it was included
> > in the local bfd build (from configure.in:)
> > 
> > 	cd binutils/bfd && chmod +x configure && ./configure 
> > --with-included-gettext && cd ../..
> >
> 
> If I remove my local osx/bin from the PATH and try again I get
> the error message "msgfmt: command not found" shown below.
> 
> ---------
> 
> $ ./configure --prefix=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx \
>      --disable-tkconfig  --disable-statsysbfd --enable-locbfd
> $ make
> cd binutils/intl && make
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  intl-compat.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  bindtextdom.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  dcgettext.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  dgettext.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  gettext.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  finddomain.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  loadmsgcat.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  localealias.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  textdomain.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  l10nflist.c
> gcc -c -DLOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DGNULOCALEDIR=\"/usr/local/share/locale\"
> -DLOCALE_ALIAS_PATH=\"/usr/local/share/locale:.\" -DHAVE_CONFIG_H -I.
> -I.  -g -O2  explodename.c
> rm -f libintl.a
> ar cru libintl.a intl-compat.o bindtextdom.o dcgettext.o dgettext.o
> gettext.o finddomain.o loadmsgcat.o localealias.o textdomain.o
> l10nflist.o explodename.o
> ranlib libintl.a
> cd binutils/bfd && make
> make  all-recursive
> Making all in doc
> make[3]: Nothing to be done for `all'.
> Making all in po
> ( if test 'x.' != 'x.'; then \
>     posrcprefix='../'; \
>   else \
>     posrcprefix="../"; \
>   fi; \
>   rm -f SRC-POTFILES-t SRC-POTFILES \
>     && (sed -e '/^#/d' \
>             -e '/^[     ]*$/d' \
>             -e "s@.*@   $posrcprefix& \\\\@" < ./SRC-POTFILES.in \
>         | sed -e '$s/\\$//') > SRC-POTFILES-t \
>     && chmod a-w SRC-POTFILES-t \
>     && mv SRC-POTFILES-t SRC-POTFILES )
> ( rm -f BLD-POTFILES-t BLD-POTFILES \
>     && (sed -e '/^#/d' \
>             -e '/^[     ]*$/d' \
>             -e "s@.*@   ../& \\\\@" < ./BLD-POTFILES.in \
>         | sed -e '$s/\\$//') > BLD-POTFILES-t \
>     && chmod a-w BLD-POTFILES-t \
>     && mv BLD-POTFILES-t BLD-POTFILES )
> cd .. \
>   && CONFIG_FILES=po/Makefile.in:po/Make-in \
>      CONFIG_HEADERS= /bin/sh ./config.status
> config.status: creating po/Makefile.in
> config.status: executing depfiles commands
> config.status: executing default commands
> file=./`echo fr | sed 's,.*/,,'`.gmo \
>   && rm -f $file && PATH=../src:$PATH msgfmt -o $file fr.po
> /bin/sh: msgfmt: command not found
> make[3]: *** [fr.gmo] Error 127
> make[2]: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
> make[1]: *** [all] Error 2
> make: *** [binutils/bfd/libbfd.a] Error 2
> 
> ---------
> 
> gcl-2.6.8pre/binutils/bfd/config.log confirms:
> 
>  Invocation command line was
> 
>   $ ./configure --with-included-gettext
> 
> But apparently recursive makefile in bfd/po does not make
> use of the included gettext. Maybe this is a binutils bug? 
>  
> > We do need sed.  I guess OSX has none, or it is incompatible?
> >
> 
> This OSX 10.2 has an old sed that is not compatible.
>  
> > Is Fink so non-standard that it must be avoided?  What is
> > the canonical way to get gnu software on OSX?
> > 
> 
> I don't know. This SourceForge server is the closest I have
> ever been to a MAC and it's probably a few thousand miles
> away from here... :-) But I have heard that many people would
> like to try to avoid installing "foreign" package systems like
> Fink.
> 
> > 
> > > Then I added:
> > > 
> > >   export PATH=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin:$PATH
> > >   export 
> > LIBRARY_PATH=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib:$LIBRARY_PATH
> > >   export CPPFLAGS="-no-cpp-precomp"
> > >   cd osx
> > > 
> > > to ~/.profile so that after re-login the environment was set
> > > appropriately.
> > > 
> > > I untarred gcl into the osx directory creating ~/osx/gcl-2.6.8pre
> > > Then I applied the following patches (most of which have been
> > > previously reported on the gcl email list by other people):
> > > 
> > > ------------------------
> > > ppc-osx3:~/osx billpage$ diff -Naur old/gcl* new/gcl*
> > > 
> > > This patch required so libintl is found in $LIBRARY_PATH.
> > > 
> > > diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs
> > > new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs
> > > --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Thu Jul 15 
> > 09:28:43 2004
> > > +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Sun Oct 15 
> > 22:07:45 2006
> > > @@ -6,7 +6,7 @@
> > > 
> > >  # Set this to avoid warnings when linking against libncurses.
> > >  # This is due to the requirements of the two level namespace.
> > > -LIBS := `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'` 
> > /sw/lib/libintl.dylib
> > > +LIBS := `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'` -lintl
> > > 
> > >  # Set this for the linker to operate correctly.
> > >  MACOSX_DEPLOYMENT_TARGET = 10.2
> > > @@ -32,4 +32,4 @@
> > >  # This appears to be no longer necessary on Panther.
> > >  ARRS = libtool -static -o
> > > 
> > > -FINAL_CFLAGS := `echo $(FINAL_CFLAGS) | sed -e 's:-g::g'`
> > > \ No newline at end of file
> > > +FINAL_CFLAGS := `echo $(FINAL_CFLAGS) | sed -e 's:-g::g'`
> > > 
> > 
> > OK, this is going in, but I think we can lose the -lintl too.
> > Anyone want to try to verify?
> >
> 
> I think you are right.
> 
> If I 'make clean' and write:
> 
>   +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.defs      Sun Oct 15 
>   ...
>   +LIBS := `echo $(LIBS) | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'`
> 
> and just adding:
> 
>   export PATH=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin:$PATH
> 
> (to avoid gettext bug) then trying configure & make as above
> works fine.
> 
>  
> > > This patch is required to define sbrk.
> > > 
> > > diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h
> > > new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h
> > > --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h Thu Dec  8 17:31:25 2005
> > > +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/h/powerpc-macosx.h Sun Oct 15 21:32:23 2006
> > > @@ -38,8 +38,9 @@
> > >  #undef SET_REAL_MAXPAGE
> > >  #define SET_REAL_MAXPAGE { my_sbrk(0); real_maxpage = (int)
> > > mach_maplimit/PAGESIZE; }
> > > 
> > > -#define sbrk my_sbrk
> > > +#include <unistd.h> /* to get sbrk defined */
> > >  extern void *my_sbrk(int incr);
> > > +#define sbrk my_sbrk
> > > 
> > > 
> > >  /** (si::save-system "...") a.k.a. unexec implementation  */
> > > 
> > 
> > I don't get this one, as we emulate sbrk here.  Where is the system
> > definition required?
> >
> 
> If I reverse this change and do 'make clean & configure & make'
> I get the error "conflicting types for `my_sbrk'":
> 
> cd unixport && make saved_pre_gcl
> ls: ../xgcl-2/*.o: No such file or directory
> ls: ../mod/*.o: No such file or directory
> ls: ../pcl/*.o: No such file or directory
> ls: ../clcs/*.o: No such file or directory
> ls: ../clcs/clcs_*.lisp: No such file or directory
> gcc  -Wall -DVOL=volatile -fsigned-char -pipe -O3 -fomit-frame-pointer
> -I/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o   -c -o sys_pre_gcl.o
> sys_pre_gcl.c
> ../h/../h/protoize.h:465: warning: could not use precompiled header
> '/usr/include/unistd-gcc3.p', because:
> ../h/../h/protoize.h:465: warning: macro 'valloc' defined by
> ../h/config.h conflicts with precomp
> In file included from ../h/../h/protoize.h:465,
>                  from ../h/include.h:70,
>                  from sys_pre_gcl.c:3:
> /usr/include/unistd.h:203: conflicting types for `my_sbrk'
> ../h/config.h:42: previous declaration of `my_sbrk'
> make[1]: *** [sys_pre_gcl.o] Error 1
> make: *** [unixport/saved_pre_gcl] Error 2
> 
> -------
> 
> > > This patch is required to remove functions symbols from plt.
> > > 
> > > diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile
> > > --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile Fri Sep 15 10:45:18 2006
> > > +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/makefile Mon Oct 16 22:03:52 2006
> > > @@ -154,7 +154,7 @@
> > >                              print a}' \
> > >                         k=$(LEADING_UNDERSCORE) |\
> > >                         sort | \
> > > -                       grep -v '[^ \t_]_' |\
> > > +                       grep -v 'restFP' | grep -v 'saveFP' 
> > | grep -v
> > > '[^ \t_]_' |\
> > >                         $(AWK) '{A[++k]=$$0} END {for 
> > (i=1;i<=k;i++) \
> > >                                 
> > printf("MY_PLT(%s)%s\n",A[i],i==k ? "" :
> > > ",");}' >$@
> > > 
> > 
> > OK.  This is quite ugly, but its a hack to begin with.  Suggestions
> > most welcome.
> >
> 
> I only vaguely understand what this is doing but 'restFP' and
> 'saveFP' are not removed from this list than the compile complains
> about "function symbols" not used in a function ... or something
> like that. The other names make sense to me. For example:
> 
> MY_PLT(__srget),
> MY_PLT(__swbuf),
> ...
> 
> which derive from the implementation of getc(f) and putc(ch,f).
> But see later in the message - I apparently have a problem with
> __srget.
> 
> > > This patch is required to find malloc.h on some OSX machines.
> > > 
> > > diff -Naur old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c
> > > new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c
> > > --- old/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c     Thu Dec 15 10:48:43 2005
> > > +++ new/gcl-2.6.8pre/o/unexmacosx.c     Tue Oct 17 18:55:04 2006
> > > @@ -124,7 +124,13 @@
> > >  #endif
> > >  #include <mach-o/nlist.h>
> > >  #include <mach-o/getsect.h>
> > > +/* not <sys/malloc.h> */
> > > +/* not <malloc.h> */
> > > +#if defined (HAVE_MALLOC_MALLOC_H)
> > >  #include <malloc/malloc.h>
> > > +#else
> > > +#include <objc/malloc.h>
> > > +#endif
> > > 
> > >  #include <sys/mman.h>
> > > 
> > 
> > OK, I take it you are using objc/malloc.h.  We need configure code
> > to look for this, and bomb if it cannot find one, just on macosx.
> > I'll take a stab unless someone else wants to.
> >
> 
> Makes sense to me. You are the autoconf wizard. :-)
>  
> > May I suggest we also lose the diagnostic output on save-system
> > on this platform?
> 
> Yes, it looks pretty ugly but maybe it is needed just a little
> while longer (or optionally) to verify that si::save-system and
> compiler::link are really working properly?
> 
> > 
> > Thanks again!  Will post when something is checked in.
> >
> 
> Thank you. I look forward to a finally finalized 2.6.8. The
> evoluton of 2.6.8pre is causing us a little consternaton in
> the current Axiom source distribution... :-)
>  
> > BTW, I'm pushing 2.6.8 (in the guise of 2.6.7) and all the apps
> > through the Debian autobuilder system before releasing 2.6.8.
> > Please let me know of any other 2.6.8 issues you may be
> > encountering in your axiom work asap.  Bug fix only at this
> > point, of course.
> >
> 
> Hmmmm... well I do currently have a problem with the Axiom build.
> After successfully building bootsys and depsys the build fails
> building interpsys with the following message:
> 
> start address -T 0xb8f000 Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/obj/powerpc-apple
> -darwin6.8/interp/bookvol5.o
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/obj/powerpc-apple
> -darwin6.8/interp/util.o
> 
> Error: Undefined symbol "___srget"
> Fast links are on: do (si::use-fast-links nil) for debugging
> Error signalled by LOAD.
> Broken at LOAD.  Type :H for Help.
> >>make[2]: ***
> [/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/build/powerpc-ap
> ple-darwin6.8/bin/interpsys] Error 255
> make[1]: *** [interp/stamp] Error 2
> make: *** [all-recursive] Error 1
> 
> ---------
> 
> Something is strange about thid symbol "___srget" with the 3
> underscore characters, I think??? The name "__srget" with 2
> underscore characters is properly defined in /usr/include/stdio.h
> 
> I don't understand what is going on here.
> 
> Also prior to compiling depsys, bootsys was already successfully
> created however it did have one oddity. The original Axiom load
> commands like ')load postpar' run during building depsys fails
> with an error message like "'postpar.8' does not exist" (Yes, that's
> the digit 8 after the dot.). If I change the command to include the
> .o like this: ')load postpar.o' everything seems fine and depsys
> is built.
> 
> bootsys itself is actually built form a copy of gcl called 'lisp'
> that is created using compiler::link. The 'lisp' image includes
> several Axiom specific external routines. I.e.
> 
> echo '(compiler::link nil
>  
> "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/build/powerpc-ap
> ple-darwin6.8/bin/lisp" ' \
>               ' (format nil "(progn (let ((*load-path* (cons ~S
> *load-path*))'\
>               ' (si::*load-types* ~S))' \
>               ' (compiler::emit-fn t))' \
>               ' (when (fboundp (quote si::sgc-on))' \
>               ' (si::sgc-on t))' \
>               ' (setq compiler::*default-system-p* t))"' \
>               ' si::*system-directory* (quote (list ".lsp")))' \
>               '
> "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/.././src/lib
> /cfuns-c.o' \
>                '
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/.././src/lib/
> sockio-c.o' \
>                '
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/.././src/lib/
> libspad.a")' \
>  | /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin/gcl
> 
> If I intervene and make Axiom use the original 'saved_gcl' to build
> 'bootsys' instead of using 'lisp', then the 'postpar.8' problem does
> not occur and gcl finds the .o files anyway, as expected.
> 
> This makes me suspicious that something subtle may be wrong with
> the output of 'compiler:link'. The size of the result images also
> seem curious:
> 
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  18362444 Oct 17 19:08 saved_gcl
> ...
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  13072984 Oct 18 04:01 lisp
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  19159640 Oct 18 04:01 bootsys
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100   7719512 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp.tmp
> -rw-r--r--  1 billpage  100         0 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp_map
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  49588824 Oct 18 03:10 depsys
> 
> Remember that 'lisp' is create by 'compiler::link' from
> saved_gcl plus some externals. Why is it smaller? Also the
> "raw" files were left here don't look "normal" to me.
> 
> A test image of gcl created by
> 
>   $ gcl
>   (si:save-system "test-image")
>   (quit)
> 
> is actually *larger* than the original saved_gcl.
> 
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  23699532 Oct 18 11:07 test-image
> 
> Are all these problems related?
> 
> Any thing you can suggest would be greatly appreciated.
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> > > 
> > > ---------
> > > 
> > > The resulting gcl binary (unixport/saved_gcl) in available here:
> > > 
> > >   http://page.axiom-developer.org/gcl-2.6.8-osx10-20061017.bin
> > > 
> > > I would be very happy if anyone with a MAC OSX machine would try
> > > this version of gcl on their systems and let me know of any
> > > problems.
> > > 
> > > I am currently working on completing the Axiom build based on the
> > > new build-improvements branch.
> > > 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Greetings!

"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

> Camm,
> 
> On October 21, 2006 4:05 PM you wrote:
> > 
> > Greetings!  Just checking that my last message hee was not lost.
> >
> 
> I was a bit confused because the message that you quote below is
> my reply to you not your last message. :-) But anyway I presume you
> meant the following email:
> 

Yes, thanks!

> On October 18, 2006 4:31 PM you asked:
> 
> >... 
> > Sigh.  I suppose reconfigured here?  The binutils configure scripts
> > do look for msgfmt.  I'm surprised they don't step around a missing
> > one, or at least bomb.  What does your binutils configure output say
> > in this regard?
> >
> 
> I am not sure what you are asking. I showed out the partial output
> from gcl-2.6.8pre/binutils/bfd/config.log below.
>  
> > > 
> > > ---------
> > > 
> > > gcl-2.6.8pre/binutils/bfd/config.log confirms:
> > > 
> > >  Invocation command line was
> > > 
> > >   $ ./configure --with-included-gettext
> > > 
> > > But apparently recursive makefile in bfd/po does not make
> > > use of the included gettext. Maybe this is a binutils bug? 
> > >  
> 
> When I looked further in this log file it showed that inspite of
> --with-included-gettext, the configure script also found the msgfmt
> in my local bin directory. I didn't understand this so I tried to
> reproduce the result but first I removed all the gettext and msgfmt
> from by local bin, but left it in the path in order to use the
> replacement for sed.
> 
> When I re-ran the gcl build it ran properly to completion without
> any error. Hmmmm... don't know. Can't reproduce. So scrap this one.
> Must have been my mistake.
> 

OK great!  But Gaby's suggestion of --disable-nls might also work --
to pressed for time to get this in unless it is really needed.

> > ...
> > > But see later in the message - I apparently have a problem with
> > > __srget.
> > > 
> > 
> > There is a notorious platform specific _ name mangling issue here.
> > See the LEADING_UNDERSCORE variable.
> > ... 
> > > 
> > > Thank you. I look forward to a finally finalized 2.6.8. The
> > > evoluton of 2.6.8pre is causing us a little consternaton in
> > > the current Axiom source distribution... :-)
> > >  
> > 
> > My apologies.  So many moving parts.  I have to get everything synched
> > on one image, however, if we want these apps in Etch.  And there have
> > been so many gcc et. al. issues.
> > 
> > BTW, are we not updating
> > 
> > http://axiom.axiom-developer.org/axiom-website/DOWNLOADS/
> > 
> > anymore?  Is there a latest official tarball somewhere for Etch (eta
> > this December)?  Having a simple webpage with the filenames in some
> > sort of alphabetical/cronological sort order lets me automatically
> > know when the Debian package needs updating.
> >
> 
> One no one has been created any new tarballs lately. The latest version
> in Axiom Gold is patch-50 but I don't think Tim created a tarball when
> he release the patch. :-(
>  

OK.  As you might know, Debian is trying to release Etch in December.
I'm skeptical, but we need to be ready.  I need to get all the gcl
packages in their current state back into testing as they were thrown
out due to a transient gcc on some platforms (it appears).  There
might be time for another source update if everything goes smoothly.


> > > ... 
> > > Something is strange about thid symbol "___srget" with the 3
> > > underscore characters, I think??? The name "__srget" with 2
> > > underscore characters is properly defined in /usr/include/stdio.h
> > > 
> > > I don't understand what is going on here.
> > > 
> > 
> > OK, your linker is prepending an underscore, and apparently
> > LEADING_UNDERSCORE was improperly set.  Could you investigate?
> 
> I tried to track this down. LEADING_UNDERSCORE is set to 1, which
> seems to be correct when I use nm to look at the symbols in the
> test file compiled by the gcl configure script. The raw symbol
> "___srget" does have 3 underscores (two in the original name), and
> cos appears as "_cos" etc. Everything works fine during the Axiom
> build for quite a while (up to the start of the building interpsys)
> until the 
> 
>   Error: Undefined symbol "___srget"
> 
> message appears. I would have presumed that this symbol would have
> been needed long before this failure occured. I rather suspsect that
> this error is a consequence of some deeper but silent problem, e.g.
> failed compiler::link?
> 

OK here is a simple test (asusming this symbol comes from getc() on
the mac:

foo.l:
(defun foo nil (with-open-file (s "/tmp/foo") (read-byte s)))

gcl
>(compile-file "foo.l")
>(load "foo.o")
>(bye)
nm foo.o |grep srget


> 
> > There may also be a C compiler switch for this.  Is this gcc?
> >
> 
> Yes it is
> 
> $ gcc --version
> gcc (GCC) 3.1 20020420 (prerelease)
> Copyright (C) 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> 
> What sort of switch? How/when should I set it?
>  

Lets try the above first.

> > 
> > > Also prior to compiling depsys, bootsys was already successfully
> > > created however it did have one oddity. The original Axiom load
> > > commands like ')load postpar' run during building depsys fails
> > > with an error message like "'postpar.8' does not exist" (Yes, that's
> > > the digit 8 after the dot.). If I change the command to include the
> > > .o like this: ')load postpar.o' everything seems fine and depsys
> > > is built.
> > > 
> > > bootsys itself is actually built form a copy of gcl called 'lisp'
> > > that is created using compiler::link. The 'lisp' image includes
> > > several Axiom specific external routines. I.e.
> > > 
> > > echo '(compiler::link nil
> > >  
> > > 
> > "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/build/
> > powerpc-ap
> > > ple-darwin6.8/bin/lisp" ' \
> > >               ' (format nil "(progn (let ((*load-path* (cons ~S
> > > *load-path*))'\
> > >               ' (si::*load-types* ~S))' \
> > >               ' (compiler::emit-fn t))' \
> > >               ' (when (fboundp (quote si::sgc-on))' \
> > >               ' (si::sgc-on t))' \
> > >               ' (setq compiler::*default-system-p* t))"' \
> > >               ' si::*system-directory* (quote (list ".lsp")))' \
> > >               '
> > > 
> > "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/..
> > /./src/lib
> > > /cfuns-c.o' \
> > >                '
> > > 
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/../
> > ./src/lib/
> > > sockio-c.o' \
> > >                '
> > > 
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/lsp/../
> > ./src/lib/
> > > libspad.a")' \
> > >  | /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin/gcl
> > 
> > Can you post the output from this?
> >
> 
>             | /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin/gcl
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >DBEGIN:          0x1c9000
> mach_mapstart:   0x5f9000
> heap_end:        0x5f9000
> core_end:        0x5f9000
> mach_brkpt:      0x5f9000
> mach_maplimit: 0x201c9000
> --- List of All Regions ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c8000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c9000     0xf000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1d8000   0x421000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f9000   0x165000 r    rwx  (no zone)
>   0x75e000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
> --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c8000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c9000   0x430000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f9000   0x165000 r    rwx  (no zone)
>   0x75e000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
> --- Header Information ---
> Magic      = 0xfeedface
> CPUType    = 18
> CPUSubType = 0
> FileType   = 0x2
> NCmds      = 10
> SizeOfCmds = 1620
> Flags      = 0x00000085
> Highest address of load commands in input file:     0x75e000
> Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0xc30
> --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
>  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
>  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c8000
>                                __text               0x1c30   0x1ad804
>                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1af434     0x1998
>                                __symbol_stub      0x1b0dcc          0
>                                __cstring          0x1b0dcc    0x16110
>                                __literal4         0x1c6edc       0x18
>                                __literal8         0x1c6ef8      0x108
>                                __const            0x1c7000     0x1f9c
>                                __eh_frame         0x1c8f9c       0x60
>  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c9000   0x430000
>                                __data             0x1c9000     0xaee4
>                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d3ee4      0x2d8
>                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d41bc      0x9e0
>                                __dyld             0x1d4b9c       0x1c
>                                __const            0x1d4bb8     0x2748
>                                __bss              0x1d7300     0x9340
>                                __common           0x1e0640   0x418970
>  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT         0x5f9000   0x165000
>  4 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
>  5 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
>  6 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
>  7 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
>  8 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
>  9 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:          0)
> Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c8000 (sz:   0x1c8000)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c8000 -   0x1d7000 (sz:     0xf000)
>         section __data           at   0x1c8000 -   0x1d2ee4 (sz:     0xaee4)
>         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d2ee4 -   0x1d31bc (sz:      0x2d8)
>         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d31bc -   0x1d3b9c (sz:      0x9e0)
>         section __dyld           at   0x1d3b9c -   0x1d3bb8 (sz:       0x1c)
>         section __const          at   0x1d3bb8 -   0x1d6300 (sz:     0x2748)
>         section __bss            at   0x1d6300 -   0x1df640 (sz:     0x9340)
>         section __common         at   0x1df640 -   0x5f7fb0 (sz:   0x418970)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f8000 -   0x5f8000 (sz:          0)
> WGCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> 

Does this stop here?  Or do you see "Initializing ...." as in your
compiler::link output below?

> > > 
> > > If I intervene and make Axiom use the original 'saved_gcl' to build
> > > 'bootsys' instead of using 'lisp', then the 'postpar.8' problem does
> > > not occur and gcl finds the .o files anyway, as expected.
> > > 
> > > This makes me suspicious that something subtle may be wrong with
> > > the output of 'compiler:link'. The size of the result images also
> > > seem curious:
> > > 
> > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  18362444 Oct 17 19:08 saved_gcl
> > > ...
> > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  13072984 Oct 18 04:01 lisp
> > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  19159640 Oct 18 04:01 bootsys
> > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100   7719512 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp.tmp
> > > -rw-r--r--  1 billpage  100         0 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp_map
> > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  49588824 Oct 18 03:10 depsys
> > > 
> > > Remember that 'lisp' is create by 'compiler::link' from
> > > saved_gcl plus some externals. Why is it smaller? Also the
> > > "raw" files were left here don't look "normal" to me.
> > > 
> > > A test image of gcl created by
> > > 
> > >   $ gcl
> > >   (si:save-system "test-image")
> > >   (quit)
> > > 
> > > is actually *larger* than the original saved_gcl.
> > > 
> > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  23699532 Oct 18 11:07 test-image
> > > 
> > > Are all these problems related?
> > > 
> > > Any thing you can suggest would be greatly appreciated.
> > > 
> > 
> > I also suspect compiler::link failure.  It is also odd that
> > save-system images are so much bigger.  Here is the tiny difference on
> > Linux:
> > 
> > ls -l /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
> > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 9329131 Oct 18 13:43 
> > /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
> > /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
> > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.7 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 13:40:07
> > Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> > Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (XGCL READLINE 
> > BFD UNEXEC)
> > Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> > compatible license
> > Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> > 
> > Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> > Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> > 
> > >(si::save-system "/tmp/ff")
> > ls -l /tmp/ff
> > -rwxr-x--- 1 camm camm 9333267 Oct 18 16:25 /tmp/ff
> > 
> > compiler::link should be no smaller than saved_gcl.  The raw files are
> > explicitly deleted as named and output by gcc -- the .tmp extension
> > appears non-std and might be expected to persist.
> > 
> > I'd make two images, one with
> > 
> > (si::save-system "foo")
> > 
> > and the other with
> > 
> > (compiler::link nil "bar")
> > 
> > And then in each, do a few tests, including looking at
> > si::*load-types*.
> >
> 
> Ok, here are the result of your suggested tests below:
> 
> --------------
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ echo '(si::save-system "foo")' |
> gcl > foo.log
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ echo '(compiler::link nil "bar")'
> | gcl > bar.log
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ ls -l foo bar
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  13029844 Oct 21 15:06 bar
> -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  23708096 Oct 21 15:05 foo
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ cat foo.log
> 
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
> mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
> heap_end:        0xb0c000
> core_end:        0xb0d000
> mach_brkpt:     0xe737000
> mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
> --- List of All Regions ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000   0x517000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
>   0xb0c000 0x1f6bb000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> --- Header Information ---
> Magic      = 0xfeedface
> CPUType    = 18
> CPUSubType = 0
> FileType   = 0x2
> NCmds      = 11
> SizeOfCmds = 1744
> Flags      = 0x00000085
> Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x5fad0000
> Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0x6f8
> --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
>  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
>  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
>                                __text               0x16f8   0x1aafc8
>                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1ac6c0     0x18e4
>                                __symbol_stub      0x1adfa4          0
>                                __cstring          0x1adfa4    0x15f5c
>                                __literal4         0x1c3f00       0x18
>                                __literal8         0x1c3f18      0x108
>                                __const            0x1c4020     0x1f9c
>                                __eh_frame         0x1c5fbc       0x60
>  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
>                                __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
>                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
>                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
>                                __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
>                                __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
>                                __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
>                                __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d68
>  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000
>                                __data             0x5f5000   0x517000
>  4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x5f96b000   0x165000
>  5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
>  6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
>  7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
>  8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
>  9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
> 10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:          0)
> Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 (sz:   0x1c6000)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 (sz:   0x42e000)
>         section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 (sz:     0xaec4)
>         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 (sz:      0x2c4)
>         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 (sz:      0x9c8)
>         section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c (sz:       0x1c)
>         section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 (sz:     0x2748)
>         section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 (sz:     0x8f28)
>         section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f48 (sz:   0x416d68)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb0c000 (sz:   0x518000)
> Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at  0x1538000 -  0x169c1c0 (sz:   0x1641c0)
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
> Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
> Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
> Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
> Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
> Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
> 12 unused bytes follow Mach-O header
> 
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ cat bar.log
> 
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >DBEGIN:          0x1c7000

What I don't understand is this output appearing twice.  This is the
place it appears not to belong.  Is this not output only from unexec?

> mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
> heap_end:        0x5f5000
> core_end:        0x5f5000
> mach_brkpt:      0x5f5000
> mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
> --- List of All Regions ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000     0xf000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1d6000   0x41f000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000   0x165000 r    rwx  (no zone)
>   0x75a000    0x40000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x79a000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
> --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000   0x165000 r    rwx  (no zone)
>   0x75a000    0x40000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x79a000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
> --- Header Information ---
> Magic      = 0xfeedface
> CPUType    = 18
> CPUSubType = 0
> FileType   = 0x2
> NCmds      = 10
> SizeOfCmds = 1620
> Flags      = 0x00000085
> Highest address of load commands in input file:     0x75a000
> Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:     0x1658
> --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
>  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
>  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
>                                __text               0x2658   0x1ab044
>                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1ad69c     0x18e4
>                                __symbol_stub      0x1aef80          0
>                                __cstring          0x1aef80    0x15f5c
>                                __literal4         0x1c4edc       0x18
>                                __literal8         0x1c4ef8      0x108
>                                __const            0x1c5000     0x1f9c
>                                __eh_frame         0x1c6f9c       0x60
>  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
>                                __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
>                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
>                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
>                                __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
>                                __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
>                                __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
>                                __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d58
>  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT         0x5f5000   0x165000
>  4 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
>  5 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
>  6 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
>  7 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
>  8 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
>  9 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:          0)
> Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 (sz:   0x1c6000)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d5000 (sz:     0xf000)
>         section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 (sz:     0xaec4)
>         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 (sz:      0x2c4)
>         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 (sz:      0x9c8)
>         section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c (sz:       0x1c)
>         section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 (sz:     0x2748)
>         section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 (sz:     0x8f28)
>         section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f38 (sz:   0x41GCL
> (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> Building symbol table for
> /private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/axiom.build-improvements/raw
> _bar.tmp ..
> loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_export.lsp
> Initializing gcl_defmacro.o
> Initializing gcl_evalmacros.o
> Initializing gcl_top.o
> Initializing gcl_module.o
> loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_autoload.lsp
> 
> >
> NIL
> 
> >
> #<"COMPILER" package>
> 
> >
> #<"SLOOP" package>
> 
> >
> #<"SERROR" package>
> 
> >
> #<"ANSI-LOOP" package>
> 
> >
> #<"DEFPACKAGE" package>
> 
> >
> #<"TK" package>
> 
> >
> #<"SYSTEM" package>
> 
> SYSTEM>
> *COMMAND-ARGS*
> 
> SYSTEM>Initializing gcl_predlib.o
> Initializing gcl_setf.o
> Initializing gcl_arraylib.o
> Initializing gcl_assert.o
> Initializing gcl_defstruct.o
> Initializing gcl_describe.o
> Initializing gcl_iolib.o
> Initializing gcl_listlib.o
> Initializing gcl_mislib.o
> Initializing gcl_numlib.o
> Initializing gcl_packlib.o
> Initializing gcl_seq.o
> Initializing gcl_seqlib.o
> Initializing gcl_trace.o
> Initializing gcl_sloop.o
> Initializing gcl_serror.o
> Initializing gcl_destructuring_bind.o
> Initializing gcl_loop.o
> Initializing gcl_defpackage.o
> Initializing gcl_make_defpackage.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpinline.o
> Initializing gcl_cmputil.o
> Initializing gcl_debug.o
> Initializing gcl_info.o
> Initializing gcl_cmptype.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpbind.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpblock.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpcall.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpcatch.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpenv.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpeval.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpflet.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpfun.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpif.o
> Initializing gcl_cmplabel.o
> Initializing gcl_cmplam.o
> Initializing gcl_cmplet.o
> Initializing gcl_cmploc.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpmap.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpmulti.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpspecial.o
> Initializing gcl_cmptag.o
> Initializing gcl_cmptop.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpvar.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpvs.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpwt.o
> 
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/sys-proclaim.lis
> p
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/sys-proclaim.lis
> p
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/sys-proclaim.
> lisp
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/sys-proclaim.
> lisp
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../gcl-tk/tk-package.ls
> p
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../gcl-tk/tk-package.ls
> p
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_cmpmain.l
> sp
> Warning: COMPILE-FILE is being redefined.
> Warning: COMPILE is being redefined.
> Warning: DISASSEMBLE is being redefined.
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_cmpmain.l
> sp
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_lfun_list
> .lsp
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_lfun_list
> .lsp
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_cmpopt.ls
> p
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_cmpopt.ls
> p
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_auto_new.lsp
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_auto_new.lsp
> 
> T
> 
> >DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
> mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
> heap_end:        0xb09000
> core_end:        0xb0a000
> mach_brkpt:     0x57df000
> mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
> --- List of All Regions ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> --- Header Information ---
> Magic      = 0xfeedface
> CPUType    = 18
> CPUSubType = 0
> FileType   = 0x2
> NCmds      = 11
> SizeOfCmds = 1744
> Flags      = 0x00000085
> Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x2032c000
> Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:     0x1658
> --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
>  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
>  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
>                                __text               0x2658   0x1ab044
>                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1ad69c     0x18e4
>                                __symbol_stub      0x1aef80          0
>                                __cstring          0x1aef80    0x15f5c
>                                __literal4         0x1c4edc       0x18
>                                __literal8         0x1c4ef8      0x108
>                                __const            0x1c5000     0x1f9c
>                                __eh_frame         0x1c6f9c       0x60
>  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
>                                __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
>                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
>                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
>                                __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
>                                __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
>                                __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
>                                __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d58
>  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000
>                                __data             0x5f5000          0
>  4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x201c7000   0x165000
>  5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
>  6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
>  7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
>  8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
>  9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
> 10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:          0)
> Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 (sz:   0x1c6000)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 (sz:   0x42e000)
>         section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 (sz:     0xaec4)
>         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 (sz:      0x2c4)
>         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 (sz:      0x9c8)
>         section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c (sz:       0x1c)
>         section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 (sz:     0x2748)
>         section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 (sz:     0x8f28)
>         section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f38 (sz:   0x416d58)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb09000 (sz:   0x515000)
> Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at   0xb09000 -   0xc6d1d4 (sz:   0x1641d4)
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
> Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
> Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
> Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
> Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
> Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
> 3948 unused bytes follow Mach-O header
> 
> "bar"
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ ./foo
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >si::*load-types*
> 
> (".o" ".lsp" ".lisp")
> 
> >(+ 1 1)
> 
> 2
> 
> >(quit)
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ ./bar
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >si::*load-types*
> 
> (".o" ".lsp" ".lisp")
> 
> >(+ 1 1)
> 
> 2
> 
> >(quit)
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $
> 
> -----------
> 
> Besides the difference in size in the images, I don't see any
> other visible problems. Does the output from the save-system
> and compiler::link help? I have no idea what it should look
> like.

Might be of use seeing if both images can compile and load files,
especially the test file foo.l above.


> 
> > 
> > Lastly, you all in the axiom world might like to know that I'm about
> > to release an HOL88 Debian package build atop GCL.  In addition to
> > providing an alternate theorem proving environment, one also has the
> > ML language built into the same image for potential use by axiom.
> > More on this later.
> > 
> 
> That sounds very interesting.
> 
> I think we need to move this part of the message to a more conspicuous
> place. :-)

OK reply separately.

Take care,

> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Camm,

On October 23, 2006 10:23 AM you wrote:
> ...
> Bill Page wrote:
> > 
> > I tried to track this down. LEADING_UNDERSCORE is set to 1, which
> > seems to be correct when I use nm to look at the symbols in the
> > test file compiled by the gcl configure script. The raw symbol
> > "___srget" does have 3 underscores (two in the original name), and
> > cos appears as "_cos" etc. Everything works fine during the Axiom
> > build for quite a while (up to the start of the building interpsys)
> > until the 
> > 
> >   Error: Undefined symbol "___srget"
> > 
> > message appears. I would have presumed that this symbol would have
> > been needed long before this failure occured. I rather suspsect that
> > this error is a consequence of some deeper but silent problem, e.g.
> > failed compiler::link?
> > 
> 
> OK here is a simple test (asusming this symbol comes from getc()
> on the mac:
> 
> foo.l:
> (defun foo nil (with-open-file (s "/tmp/foo") (read-byte s)))
> 
> gcl
> >(compile-file "foo.l")
> >(load "foo.o")
> >(bye)
> nm foo.o |grep srget
> 

Here's the result:

--------

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ vi foo.l
ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ gcl
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/

>(compile-file "foo.l")

Compiling foo.l.
End of Pass 1.
End of Pass 2.
OPTIMIZE levels: Safety=0 (No runtime error checking), Space=0, Speed=3
Finished compiling foo.lisp.
#p"foo.o"

>(load "foo.o")

Loading foo.o

Error: Undefined symbol "___srget"
Fast links are on: do (si::use-fast-links nil) for debugging
Error signalled by EVAL.
Broken at LOAD.  Type :H for Help.
>>(quit)
ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm foo.o
         U _Cnil_body
         U _Dotnil_body
         U _FEwrong_type_argument
         U _FIXtemp
00000000 t _L1
         U _Lclose
000004fc d _Lnk1
000004c8 t _LnkT1
000004f0 d _VVi
         U ___srget
         U _bds_top
         U _call_or_link
         U _do_init
         U _frs_limit
         U _frs_overflow
         U _frs_top
         U _ihs_top
         U _in_signal_handler
000004ac T _init_code
         U _lex_env
         U _make_cons
         U _make_fixnum1
         U _nlj_active
         U _nlj_fr
         U _nlj_tag
         U _read_byte1
         U _sLlist
00000500 d _s_my_dot.0
         U _setjmp
         U _small_fixnum_table
         U _unwind
         U _vs_base
         U _vs_limit
         U _vs_overflow
         U _vs_top
         U dyld_stub_binding_helper
         U restFP
         U saveFP

-------

But I see the this symbol *is* known to the gcl image.

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm unixport/saved_gcl | grep srget
         U ___srget

What is wrong?

> ...
> > 
> >             | /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin/gcl
> > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> > Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> > Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> > Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> compatible license
> > Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> > 
> > Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> > Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> > 
> > >DBEGIN:          0x1c9000
> > mach_mapstart:   0x5f9000
> > heap_end:        0x5f9000
> > core_end:        0x5f9000
> > mach_brkpt:      0x5f9000
> > mach_maplimit: 0x201c9000
> > --- List of All Regions ---
> >    address       size prot maxp zone_name
> >          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
> >     0x1000   0x1c8000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x1c9000     0xf000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x1d8000   0x421000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x5f9000   0x165000 r    rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x75e000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
> > --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
> >    address       size prot maxp zone_name
> >          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
> >     0x1000   0x1c8000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x1c9000   0x430000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x5f9000   0x165000 r    rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x75e000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
> > --- Header Information ---
> > Magic      = 0xfeedface
> > CPUType    = 18
> > CPUSubType = 0
> > FileType   = 0x2
> > NCmds      = 10
> > SizeOfCmds = 1620
> > Flags      = 0x00000085
> > Highest address of load commands in input file:     0x75e000
> > Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0xc30
> > --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> > no cmd                 cmdsize name                address  
>      size
> >  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0  
>    0x1000
> >  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000  
>  0x1c8000
> >                                __text               0x1c30  
>  0x1ad804
> >                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1af434  
>    0x1998
> >                                __symbol_stub      0x1b0dcc  
>         0
> >                                __cstring          0x1b0dcc  
>   0x16110
> >                                __literal4         0x1c6edc  
>      0x18
> >                                __literal8         0x1c6ef8  
>     0x108
> >                                __const            0x1c7000  
>    0x1f9c
> >                                __eh_frame         0x1c8f9c  
>      0x60
> >  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c9000  
>  0x430000
> >                                __data             0x1c9000  
>    0xaee4
> >                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d3ee4  
>     0x2d8
> >                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d41bc  
>     0x9e0
> >                                __dyld             0x1d4b9c  
>      0x1c
> >                                __const            0x1d4bb8  
>    0x2748
> >                                __bss              0x1d7300  
>    0x9340
> >                                __common           0x1e0640  
>  0x418970
> >  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT         0x5f9000  
>  0x165000
> >  4 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
> >  5 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
> >  6 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
> >  7 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
> >  8 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
> >  9 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> > --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> > Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 
> (sz:          0)
> > Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c8000 
> (sz:   0x1c8000)
> > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c8000 -   0x1d7000 
> (sz:     0xf000)
> >         section __data           at   0x1c8000 -   0x1d2ee4 
> (sz:     0xaee4)
> >         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d2ee4 -   0x1d31bc 
> (sz:      0x2d8)
> >         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d31bc -   0x1d3b9c 
> (sz:      0x9e0)
> >         section __dyld           at   0x1d3b9c -   0x1d3bb8 
> (sz:       0x1c)
> >         section __const          at   0x1d3bb8 -   0x1d6300 
> (sz:     0x2748)
> >         section __bss            at   0x1d6300 -   0x1df640 
> (sz:     0x9340)
> >         section __common         at   0x1df640 -   0x5f7fb0 
> (sz:   0x418970)
> > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f8000 -   0x5f8000 
> (sz:          0)
> > WGCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> > 
>
> Does this stop here?  Or do you see "Initializing ...." as in your
> compiler::link output below?
>

It stops there.
 
> > > > 
> > > > If I intervene and make Axiom use the original 
> 'saved_gcl' to build
> > > > 'bootsys' instead of using 'lisp', then the 'postpar.8' 
> problem does
> > > > not occur and gcl finds the .o files anyway, as expected.
> > > > 
> > > > This makes me suspicious that something subtle may be wrong with
> > > > the output of 'compiler:link'. The size of the result 
> images also
> > > > seem curious:
> > > > 
> > > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  18362444 Oct 17 19:08 saved_gcl
> > > > ...
> > > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  13072984 Oct 18 04:01 lisp
> > > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  19159640 Oct 18 04:01 bootsys
> > > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100   7719512 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp.tmp
> > > > -rw-r--r--  1 billpage  100         0 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp_map
> > > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  49588824 Oct 18 03:10 depsys
> > > > 
> > > > Remember that 'lisp' is create by 'compiler::link' from
> > > > saved_gcl plus some externals. Why is it smaller? Also the
> > > > "raw" files were left here don't look "normal" to me.
> > > > 
> > > > A test image of gcl created by
> > > > 
> > > >   $ gcl
> > > >   (si:save-system "test-image")
> > > >   (quit)
> > > > 
> > > > is actually *larger* than the original saved_gcl.
> > > > 
> > > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  23699532 Oct 18 11:07 test-image
> > > > 
> > > > Are all these problems related?
> > > > 
> > > > Any thing you can suggest would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > I also suspect compiler::link failure.  It is also odd that
> > > save-system images are so much bigger.  Here is the tiny 
> difference on
> > > Linux:
> > > 
> > > ls -l /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
> > > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 9329131 Oct 18 13:43 
> > > /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
> > > /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
> > > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.7 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 13:40:07
> > > Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> > > Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (XGCL READLINE 
> > > BFD UNEXEC)
> > > Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> > > compatible license
> > > Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> > > 
> > > Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> > > Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> > > 
> > > >(si::save-system "/tmp/ff")
> > > ls -l /tmp/ff
> > > -rwxr-x--- 1 camm camm 9333267 Oct 18 16:25 /tmp/ff
> > > 
> > > compiler::link should be no smaller than saved_gcl.  The 
> raw files are
> > > explicitly deleted as named and output by gcc -- the .tmp 
> extension
> > > appears non-std and might be expected to persist.
> > > 
> > > I'd make two images, one with
> > > 
> > > (si::save-system "foo")
> > > 
> > > and the other with
> > > 
> > > (compiler::link nil "bar")
> > > 
> > > And then in each, do a few tests, including looking at
> > > si::*load-types*.
> > >
> > 
> > Ok, here are the result of your suggested tests below:
> > 
> > --------------
> > 
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ echo 
> '(si::save-system "foo")' |
> > gcl > foo.log
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ echo 
> '(compiler::link nil "bar")'
> > | gcl > bar.log
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ ls -l foo bar
> > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  13029844 Oct 21 15:06 bar
> > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  23708096 Oct 21 15:05 foo
> > 
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ cat foo.log
> > 
> > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> > Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> > Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> > Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> compatible license
> > Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> > 
> > Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> > Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> > 
> > >DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
> > mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
> > heap_end:        0xb0c000
> > core_end:        0xb0d000
> > mach_brkpt:     0xe737000
> > mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
> > --- List of All Regions ---
> >    address       size prot maxp zone_name
> >          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
> >     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x5f5000   0x517000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> >   0xb0c000 0x1f6bb000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> > --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
> >    address       size prot maxp zone_name
> >          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
> >     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> > --- Header Information ---
> > Magic      = 0xfeedface
> > CPUType    = 18
> > CPUSubType = 0
> > FileType   = 0x2
> > NCmds      = 11
> > SizeOfCmds = 1744
> > Flags      = 0x00000085
> > Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x5fad0000
> > Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0x6f8
> > --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> > no cmd                 cmdsize name                address  
>      size
> >  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0  
>    0x1000
> >  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000  
>  0x1c6000
> >                                __text               0x16f8  
>  0x1aafc8
> >                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1ac6c0  
>    0x18e4
> >                                __symbol_stub      0x1adfa4  
>         0
> >                                __cstring          0x1adfa4  
>   0x15f5c
> >                                __literal4         0x1c3f00  
>      0x18
> >                                __literal8         0x1c3f18  
>     0x108
> >                                __const            0x1c4020  
>    0x1f9c
> >                                __eh_frame         0x1c5fbc  
>      0x60
> >  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000  
>  0x42e000
> >                                __data             0x1c7000  
>    0xaec4
> >                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4  
>     0x2c4
> >                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188  
>     0x9c8
> >                                __dyld             0x1d2b50  
>      0x1c
> >                                __const            0x1d2b6c  
>    0x2748
> >                                __bss              0x1d52b8  
>    0x8f28
> >                                __common           0x1de1e0  
>  0x416d68
> >  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 
> 0x1fbd2000
> >                                __data             0x5f5000  
>  0x517000
> >  4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x5f96b000  
>  0x165000
> >  5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
> >  6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
> >  7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
> >  8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
> >  9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
> > 10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> > --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> > Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 
> (sz:          0)
> > Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 
> (sz:   0x1c6000)
> > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 
> (sz:   0x42e000)
> >         section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 
> (sz:     0xaec4)
> >         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 
> (sz:      0x2c4)
> >         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 
> (sz:      0x9c8)
> >         section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c 
> (sz:       0x1c)
> >         section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 
> (sz:     0x2748)
> >         section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 
> (sz:     0x8f28)
> >         section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f48 
> (sz:   0x416d68)
> > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb0c000 
> (sz:   0x518000)
> > Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at  0x1538000 -  0x169c1c0 
> (sz:   0x1641c0)
> > Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
> > Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
> > Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
> > Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
> > Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
> > Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
> > Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
> > 12 unused bytes follow Mach-O header
> > 
> > 
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ cat bar.log
> > 
> > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> > Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> > Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> > Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> compatible license
> > Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> > 
> > Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> > Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> > 
> > >DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
> 
> What I don't understand is this output appearing twice.  This is the
> place it appears not to belong.  Is this not output only from unexec?
>

I don't know. How can I tell?
 
> ... 
> Might be of use seeing if both images can compile and load files,
> especially the test file foo.l above.
>

Same result as above:

--------- 

ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ ./foo
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/

>(compile-file "foo.l")

Compiling foo.l.
End of Pass 1.
End of Pass 2.
OPTIMIZE levels: Safety=0 (No runtime error checking), Space=0, Speed=3
Finished compiling foo.l.
#p"foo.o"

>(load "foo.o")

Loading foo.o

Error: Undefined symbol "___srget"
Fast links are on: do (si::use-fast-links nil) for debugging
Error signalled by EVAL.
Broken at LOAD.  Type :H for Help.
>>(quit)
ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ ./bar
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/

>(compile-file "foo.l")

Compiling foo.l.
End of Pass 1.
End of Pass 2.
OPTIMIZE levels: Safety=0 (No runtime error checking), Space=0, Speed=3
Finished compiling foo.l.
#p"foo.o"

>(load "foo.o")

Loading foo.o

Error: Undefined symbol "___srget"
Fast links are on: do (si::use-fast-links nil) for debugging
Error signalled by EVAL.
Broken at LOAD.  Type :H for Help.
>>(quit)
ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Cc: aldor-combinat-devel <aldor-combinat-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>,
	axiom-dev <axiom-developer@nongnu.org>
Subject: [Axiom-developer] Axiom-Combinat / non-extending category
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Dear Ralf, *

I now merged the modified signatures as outlined below with the axiom-port. The
result is quite promising.

I can use generatingSeries of all constructors, including Plus and Times.

I cannot use structures, of course, since this uses a dependent type now:

structures: (L: LabelType, List L) -> Generator %

The generator is not a problem, there is an easy workaround. However, the
dependent type is a show stopper, I'm afraid.

I'm willing to pay 200$ from my own pocket if somebody makes Axiom understand
signatures like that.

Furthermore, I tried to define a domain

)abb dom TEST Test
A: CombinatorialSpecies == Plus(CharacteristicSpecies(1), CharacteristicSpecies(1))


in various forms, but all I get is the error message

non extending category

Well, I guess that's not so interesting anyway. We can use the aldor compiler,
after all.


I rather like the new signature.


Martin


Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at> writes:

> A short report:
> 
> I modified species.as.nw, replacing CombinatorialSpecies L by
> CombinatorialSpecies, adding the LabelType in the representation of
> CharacteristicSpecies.
> 
> (I didn't bother to modify the other basic species yet)
> 
> The operation elements$LabelType is not needed in this approach, and in fact, I
> wouldn't know how to implement it.
> 
> Extending Set is not possible, for reasons discussed recently on this list. We
> would need to create a new domain SetSpecies.
> 
> Plus and Times stay nearly the same, only the signature changes to
> 
> Plus(F: CombinatorialSpecies,G: CombinatorialSpecies): CombinatorialSpecies
> 
> and F L has to be replaced by F everywhere, structures(List L) changes to
> structures(L: LabelType, List L), etc.
> 
> Note that the Rep of Plus, Times, etc. won't change.
> 
> Things seem to work. I'll have a look whether Axiom likes this version better.
> 
> 
> 
> Martin




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Has anyone used Git in any project?

I found this page:
http://keithp.com/blog/Repository_Formats_Matter.html
where he states that:

The Mozilla CVS repository was 2.7GB, imported to Subversion it 
grew to 8.2GB. Under Git, it shrunk to 450MB. Given that a Mozilla
checkout is around 350MB, it's fairly nice to have the whole project
history (from 1998) in only slightly more space.

t




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Greetings!

"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

> Camm,
> 
> On October 23, 2006 10:23 AM you wrote:
> > ...
> > Bill Page wrote:
> > > 
> > > I tried to track this down. LEADING_UNDERSCORE is set to 1, which
> > > seems to be correct when I use nm to look at the symbols in the
> > > test file compiled by the gcl configure script. The raw symbol
> > > "___srget" does have 3 underscores (two in the original name), and
> > > cos appears as "_cos" etc. Everything works fine during the Axiom
> > > build for quite a while (up to the start of the building interpsys)
> > > until the 
> > > 
> > >   Error: Undefined symbol "___srget"
> > > 
> > > message appears. I would have presumed that this symbol would have
> > > been needed long before this failure occured. I rather suspsect that
> > > this error is a consequence of some deeper but silent problem, e.g.
> > > failed compiler::link?
> > > 
> > 
> > OK here is a simple test (asusming this symbol comes from getc()
> > on the mac:
> > 
> > foo.l:
> > (defun foo nil (with-open-file (s "/tmp/foo") (read-byte s)))
> > 
> > gcl
> > >(compile-file "foo.l")
> > >(load "foo.o")
> > >(bye)
> > nm foo.o |grep srget
> > 
> 
> Here's the result:
> 
> --------
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ vi foo.l
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ gcl
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >(compile-file "foo.l")
> 
> Compiling foo.l.
> End of Pass 1.
> End of Pass 2.
> OPTIMIZE levels: Safety=0 (No runtime error checking), Space=0, Speed=3
> Finished compiling foo.lisp.
> #p"foo.o"
> 
> >(load "foo.o")
> 
> Loading foo.o
> 
> Error: Undefined symbol "___srget"
> Fast links are on: do (si::use-fast-links nil) for debugging
> Error signalled by EVAL.
> Broken at LOAD.  Type :H for Help.
> >>(quit)
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm foo.o
>          U _Cnil_body
>          U _Dotnil_body
>          U _FEwrong_type_argument
>          U _FIXtemp
> 00000000 t _L1
>          U _Lclose
> 000004fc d _Lnk1
> 000004c8 t _LnkT1
> 000004f0 d _VVi
>          U ___srget
>          U _bds_top
>          U _call_or_link
>          U _do_init
>          U _frs_limit
>          U _frs_overflow
>          U _frs_top
>          U _ihs_top
>          U _in_signal_handler
> 000004ac T _init_code
>          U _lex_env
>          U _make_cons
>          U _make_fixnum1
>          U _nlj_active
>          U _nlj_fr
>          U _nlj_tag
>          U _read_byte1
>          U _sLlist
> 00000500 d _s_my_dot.0
>          U _setjmp
>          U _small_fixnum_table
>          U _unwind
>          U _vs_base
>          U _vs_limit
>          U _vs_overflow
>          U _vs_top
>          U dyld_stub_binding_helper
>          U restFP
>          U saveFP
> 
> -------
> 
> But I see the this symbol *is* known to the gcl image.
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm unixport/saved_gcl | grep srget
>          U ___srget
> 
> What is wrong?
> 

Here is says that saved_gcl *uses* the symbol, but does not provide
it.  We need T ___srget.

Was our patch to o/makefile designed to remove ___srget from plt.h?
If so, this is the culprit.  What was the reason if this is the case?
If not, we need to add code to plttest.c to get these symbols into
plt.h.  If this makes any sense to you and you can tell me which is
the case, we can proceed from here.

The idea is that raw_gcl needs its own symbol for every symol that can
be written by the compiler/gcc into an object file to be loaded.  If
symbols are in external libraries, e.g. cos() in libm, GCL compiles in
its own reference by taking the address in C

void *ref=cos;

This forces ldd to make a plt table, en effective trampoline, which
will be properly relocated at runtime by ld.so.  Jumping to this
trampoline is sufficient to get us to where we need to go.  

We also have an additional mechanism to parse the raw_map file to look
at the plt table explicitly if present.  This is not very portable,
but the results are in si::*plt-table*.


> > ...
> > > 
> > >             | /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/bin/gcl
> > > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> > > Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> > > Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> > > Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> > compatible license
> > > Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> > > 
> > > Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> > > Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> > > 
> > > >DBEGIN:          0x1c9000
> > > mach_mapstart:   0x5f9000
> > > heap_end:        0x5f9000
> > > core_end:        0x5f9000
> > > mach_brkpt:      0x5f9000
> > > mach_maplimit: 0x201c9000
> > > --- List of All Regions ---
> > >    address       size prot maxp zone_name
> > >          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
> > >     0x1000   0x1c8000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
> > >   0x1c9000     0xf000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> > >   0x1d8000   0x421000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> > >   0x5f9000   0x165000 r    rwx  (no zone)
> > >   0x75e000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
> > > --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
> > >    address       size prot maxp zone_name
> > >          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
> > >     0x1000   0x1c8000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
> > >   0x1c9000   0x430000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> > >   0x5f9000   0x165000 r    rwx  (no zone)
> > >   0x75e000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
> > > --- Header Information ---
> > > Magic      = 0xfeedface
> > > CPUType    = 18
> > > CPUSubType = 0
> > > FileType   = 0x2
> > > NCmds      = 10
> > > SizeOfCmds = 1620
> > > Flags      = 0x00000085
> > > Highest address of load commands in input file:     0x75e000
> > > Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0xc30
> > > --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> > > no cmd                 cmdsize name                address  
> >      size
> > >  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0  
> >    0x1000
> > >  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000  
> >  0x1c8000
> > >                                __text               0x1c30  
> >  0x1ad804
> > >                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1af434  
> >    0x1998
> > >                                __symbol_stub      0x1b0dcc  
> >         0
> > >                                __cstring          0x1b0dcc  
> >   0x16110
> > >                                __literal4         0x1c6edc  
> >      0x18
> > >                                __literal8         0x1c6ef8  
> >     0x108
> > >                                __const            0x1c7000  
> >    0x1f9c
> > >                                __eh_frame         0x1c8f9c  
> >      0x60
> > >  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c9000  
> >  0x430000
> > >                                __data             0x1c9000  
> >    0xaee4
> > >                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d3ee4  
> >     0x2d8
> > >                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d41bc  
> >     0x9e0
> > >                                __dyld             0x1d4b9c  
> >      0x1c
> > >                                __const            0x1d4bb8  
> >    0x2748
> > >                                __bss              0x1d7300  
> >    0x9340
> > >                                __common           0x1e0640  
> >  0x418970
> > >  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT         0x5f9000  
> >  0x165000
> > >  4 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
> > >  5 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
> > >  6 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
> > >  7 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
> > >  8 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
> > >  9 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> > > --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> > > Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 
> > (sz:          0)
> > > Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c8000 
> > (sz:   0x1c8000)
> > > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c8000 -   0x1d7000 
> > (sz:     0xf000)
> > >         section __data           at   0x1c8000 -   0x1d2ee4 
> > (sz:     0xaee4)
> > >         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d2ee4 -   0x1d31bc 
> > (sz:      0x2d8)
> > >         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d31bc -   0x1d3b9c 
> > (sz:      0x9e0)
> > >         section __dyld           at   0x1d3b9c -   0x1d3bb8 
> > (sz:       0x1c)
> > >         section __const          at   0x1d3bb8 -   0x1d6300 
> > (sz:     0x2748)
> > >         section __bss            at   0x1d6300 -   0x1df640 
> > (sz:     0x9340)
> > >         section __common         at   0x1df640 -   0x5f7fb0 
> > (sz:   0x418970)
> > > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f8000 -   0x5f8000 
> > (sz:          0)
> > > WGCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> > > 
> >
> > Does this stop here?  Or do you see "Initializing ...." as in your
> > compiler::link output below?
> >
> 
> It stops there.

OK, this is definitely strange.  Could you please 

(trace system open delete-file)

before the compiler::link and send me the output.


>  
> > > > > 
> > > > > If I intervene and make Axiom use the original 
> > 'saved_gcl' to build
> > > > > 'bootsys' instead of using 'lisp', then the 'postpar.8' 
> > problem does
> > > > > not occur and gcl finds the .o files anyway, as expected.
> > > > > 
> > > > > This makes me suspicious that something subtle may be wrong with
> > > > > the output of 'compiler:link'. The size of the result 
> > images also
> > > > > seem curious:
> > > > > 
> > > > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  18362444 Oct 17 19:08 saved_gcl
> > > > > ...
> > > > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  13072984 Oct 18 04:01 lisp
> > > > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  19159640 Oct 18 04:01 bootsys
> > > > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100   7719512 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp.tmp
> > > > > -rw-r--r--  1 billpage  100         0 Oct 18 04:01 raw_lisp_map
> > > > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  49588824 Oct 18 03:10 depsys
> > > > > 
> > > > > Remember that 'lisp' is create by 'compiler::link' from
> > > > > saved_gcl plus some externals. Why is it smaller? Also the
> > > > > "raw" files were left here don't look "normal" to me.
> > > > > 
> > > > > A test image of gcl created by
> > > > > 
> > > > >   $ gcl
> > > > >   (si:save-system "test-image")
> > > > >   (quit)
> > > > > 
> > > > > is actually *larger* than the original saved_gcl.
> > > > > 
> > > > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  23699532 Oct 18 11:07 test-image
> > > > > 
> > > > > Are all these problems related?
> > > > > 
> > > > > Any thing you can suggest would be greatly appreciated.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > I also suspect compiler::link failure.  It is also odd that
> > > > save-system images are so much bigger.  Here is the tiny 
> > difference on
> > > > Linux:
> > > > 
> > > > ls -l /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
> > > > -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 9329131 Oct 18 13:43 
> > > > /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
> > > > /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl
> > > > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.7 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 13:40:07
> > > > Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> > > > Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (XGCL READLINE 
> > > > BFD UNEXEC)
> > > > Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> > > > compatible license
> > > > Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> > > > 
> > > > Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> > > > Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> > > > 
> > > > >(si::save-system "/tmp/ff")
> > > > ls -l /tmp/ff
> > > > -rwxr-x--- 1 camm camm 9333267 Oct 18 16:25 /tmp/ff
> > > > 
> > > > compiler::link should be no smaller than saved_gcl.  The 
> > raw files are
> > > > explicitly deleted as named and output by gcc -- the .tmp 
> > extension
> > > > appears non-std and might be expected to persist.
> > > > 
> > > > I'd make two images, one with
> > > > 
> > > > (si::save-system "foo")
> > > > 
> > > > and the other with
> > > > 
> > > > (compiler::link nil "bar")
> > > > 
> > > > And then in each, do a few tests, including looking at
> > > > si::*load-types*.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Ok, here are the result of your suggested tests below:
> > > 
> > > --------------
> > > 
> > > ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ echo 
> > '(si::save-system "foo")' |
> > > gcl > foo.log
> > > ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ echo 
> > '(compiler::link nil "bar")'
> > > | gcl > bar.log
> > > ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ ls -l foo bar
> > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  13029844 Oct 21 15:06 bar
> > > -rwxr-xr-x  1 billpage  100  23708096 Oct 21 15:05 foo
> > > 
> > > ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ cat foo.log
> > > 
> > > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> > > Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> > > Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> > > Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> > compatible license
> > > Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> > > 
> > > Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> > > Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> > > 
> > > >DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
> > > mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
> > > heap_end:        0xb0c000
> > > core_end:        0xb0d000
> > > mach_brkpt:     0xe737000
> > > mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
> > > --- List of All Regions ---
> > >    address       size prot maxp zone_name
> > >          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
> > >     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
> > >   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> > >   0x5f5000   0x517000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> > >   0xb0c000 0x1f6bb000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> > > --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
> > >    address       size prot maxp zone_name
> > >          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
> > >     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
> > >   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> > >   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> > > --- Header Information ---
> > > Magic      = 0xfeedface
> > > CPUType    = 18
> > > CPUSubType = 0
> > > FileType   = 0x2
> > > NCmds      = 11
> > > SizeOfCmds = 1744
> > > Flags      = 0x00000085
> > > Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x5fad0000
> > > Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0x6f8
> > > --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> > > no cmd                 cmdsize name                address  
> >      size
> > >  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0  
> >    0x1000
> > >  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000  
> >  0x1c6000
> > >                                __text               0x16f8  
> >  0x1aafc8
> > >                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1ac6c0  
> >    0x18e4
> > >                                __symbol_stub      0x1adfa4  
> >         0
> > >                                __cstring          0x1adfa4  
> >   0x15f5c
> > >                                __literal4         0x1c3f00  
> >      0x18
> > >                                __literal8         0x1c3f18  
> >     0x108
> > >                                __const            0x1c4020  
> >    0x1f9c
> > >                                __eh_frame         0x1c5fbc  
> >      0x60
> > >  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000  
> >  0x42e000
> > >                                __data             0x1c7000  
> >    0xaec4
> > >                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4  
> >     0x2c4
> > >                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188  
> >     0x9c8
> > >                                __dyld             0x1d2b50  
> >      0x1c
> > >                                __const            0x1d2b6c  
> >    0x2748
> > >                                __bss              0x1d52b8  
> >    0x8f28
> > >                                __common           0x1de1e0  
> >  0x416d68
> > >  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 
> > 0x1fbd2000
> > >                                __data             0x5f5000  
> >  0x517000
> > >  4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x5f96b000  
> >  0x165000
> > >  5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
> > >  6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
> > >  7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
> > >  8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
> > >  9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
> > > 10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> > > --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> > > Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 
> > (sz:          0)
> > > Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 
> > (sz:   0x1c6000)
> > > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 
> > (sz:   0x42e000)
> > >         section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 
> > (sz:     0xaec4)
> > >         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 
> > (sz:      0x2c4)
> > >         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 
> > (sz:      0x9c8)
> > >         section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c 
> > (sz:       0x1c)
> > >         section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 
> > (sz:     0x2748)
> > >         section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 
> > (sz:     0x8f28)
> > >         section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f48 
> > (sz:   0x416d68)
> > > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb0c000 
> > (sz:   0x518000)
> > > Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at  0x1538000 -  0x169c1c0 
> > (sz:   0x1641c0)
> > > Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
> > > Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
> > > Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
> > > Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
> > > Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
> > > Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
> > > Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
> > > 12 unused bytes follow Mach-O header
> > > 
> > > 
> > > ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ cat bar.log
> > > 
> > > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> > > Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> > > Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> > > Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> > compatible license
> > > Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> > > 
> > > Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> > > Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> > > 
> > > >DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
> > 
> > What I don't understand is this output appearing twice.  This is the
> > place it appears not to belong.  Is this not output only from unexec?
> >
> 
> I don't know. How can I tell?
>  
> > ... 
> > Might be of use seeing if both images can compile and load files,
> > especially the test file foo.l above.
> >
> 
> Same result as above:
> 
> --------- 
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ ./foo
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >(compile-file "foo.l")
> 
> Compiling foo.l.
> End of Pass 1.
> End of Pass 2.
> OPTIMIZE levels: Safety=0 (No runtime error checking), Space=0, Speed=3
> Finished compiling foo.l.
> #p"foo.o"
> 
> >(load "foo.o")
> 
> Loading foo.o
> 
> Error: Undefined symbol "___srget"
> Fast links are on: do (si::use-fast-links nil) for debugging
> Error signalled by EVAL.
> Broken at LOAD.  Type :H for Help.
> >>(quit)
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $ ./bar
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >(compile-file "foo.l")
> 
> Compiling foo.l.
> End of Pass 1.
> End of Pass 2.
> OPTIMIZE levels: Safety=0 (No runtime error checking), Space=0, Speed=3
> Finished compiling foo.l.
> #p"foo.o"
> 
> >(load "foo.o")
> 
> Loading foo.o
> 
> Error: Undefined symbol "___srget"
> Fast links are on: do (si::use-fast-links nil) for debugging
> Error signalled by EVAL.
> Broken at LOAD.  Type :H for Help.
> >>(quit)
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/axiom.build-improvements $
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Take care,

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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man, this git thing is blindingly fast. 
as it says in the docs sometimes you don't think anything happened.
i put up a git version of all of the current changes since --patch-50




you can get an axiom copy with:

  git clone silver@axiom-developer.org:/home/silver/silver
  password: (send email to daly@axiom-developer.org and i'll tell you)

and now you have your own local copy.




to get the latest set of host changes at any time:

  cd silver
  git pull





you can edit any file (e.g. src/interp/setq.lisp.pamphlet) and then say

  git-update-index src/interp/setq.lisp.pamphlet
  git commit -m"why you changed it"

this will remember the change on your local copy.






to set up your local copy so that you can push changes back 
you need a one-time change to add a line to .git/remotes/origin like this:

  echo 'Push: master' >>.git/remotes/origin

and then do:

  git push origin




more details can be found on this page:
http://www.kernel.org/pub/software/scm/git/docs/everyday.html



it uses much less space.
the arch version of axiom checks out to 304M
the git  version of axiom checks out to 207M

simple, fast, small, distributed, reliable.
i have to say i'm impressed.

t



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and latex
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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
...
> yes. i'm learning a lot about the tex language so it's taking time.
> latex does similiar processing to handle bibligraphic and index files.

For LaTeX, isn't an external program usually called to format the
index files?

> if latex can do code chunks directly, format them properly in
> a latex document and dump the code to a file there is no need
> for any other tool.

That sounds like a pretty neat idea.  But wouldn't using TeX to do the
tangling be inefficient for large programs?  (This isn't a rhetorical
question; I have no idea.)

Jay



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Cc: John R Harrison <johnh@ichips.intel.com>, axiom-developer@nongnu.org,
	boyer@cs.utexas.edu, gcl-devel@gnu.org
Subject: [Axiom-developer] HOL88 (was Re: Axiom and the ML language built
	into the same image)
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Greetings!

"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

> > On October 21, 2006 4:05 PM Camm Maguire wrote:
> > ... 
> > 
> > Lastly, you all in the axiom world might like to know that I'm about
> > to release an HOL88 Debian package build atop GCL.  In addition to
> > providing an alternate theorem proving environment, one also has the
> > ML language built into the same image for potential use by axiom.
> > More on this later.
> > 
> 
> I would like to hear more about how to build Axiom with ML built
> in to the same image!
> 

Am happy to announce the submission today of a set of packages for
HOL88, built atop GCL, to Debian.

You can see the packages at:

http://people.debian.org/~camm

Until these are accepted by Debian, after which time one can retrieve
the source and binaries via apt-get, one can:

1) build from source with current gcl (2.6.8 or head) in path:
   dpkg-source -x hol88*dsc
   cd hol88-2.02.19940316
   debian/rules build

2) install the binaries the usual way:
   (as root) dpkg -i *.deb

3) unpack in a local directory:

   for i in *.deb ; do dpkg --fsys-tarfile $i | tar xf - ; done

   (here you will likely have to 'install `new_directory`;;' in the
   unpackaged usr/lib/hol88-2.02.19940316/hol image)
   (You can save a new image with 'lisp `(ml-save "new_image")`;;')

I am far from an expert on the evolution of ML, but my preliminary
understanding is that this ML was one of the main progenators of
today's family of ML's.  Indeed, the authors of the HOL system seemed
to have much to do with the invention of the language itself.  I
believe this dialect was referred to as 'Classic ML'.  I do not know
how it relates to standard ML, but I bet it is quite close.  In any
case, its original implementation was written in lisp, and
conventionally compiled with akcl, the ancestor to GCL.  The build
still works, yielding not only an ML in lisp environment, but a
substantial theorem proving environment with a large library in its
own right.  

Axiom has discussed in the past incorporating ACL2 as a means to
verify its algorithms.  HOL88 should provide yet another such
opportunity in addition to providing ML facilities within axiom.

Please keep in mind that the packages, and the facility in general, are
still in an early stage of development.  In particular, HOL88 loads
right into the user package, so is not well isolated.

Take care,

> Thanks.
> 
> Bill Page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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> That sounds like a pretty neat idea.  But wouldn't using TeX to do the
> tangling be inefficient for large programs?  (This isn't a rhetorical
> question; I have no idea.)

i have no idea but i do have practical experience.
in work i have a project that is a literate program.

the pamphlet file has 127862 lines.
the generated lisp file has 60184 lines.
the dvi file has 3240 pages.

remaking the whole pile takes (on a 3.2GHz machine)
 about 25 seconds for noweb
 about 3 seconds for latex -> dvi
 about 3 seconds for clisp executable image
 about 3 seconds for regression tests

noweb is a bottleneck for my work project
and all it has to do is mmap the file, 
create a hash table of the chunks, 
and recursively walk the <<*>> tag.

so i'm not worried about the time latex might take.

t



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

> man, this git thing is blindingly fast.

It certainly is.  I just got a copy of silver Axiom using git.  It
seems as if git got the whole thing in less time than it took svn to get a
few files from the zip directory.

Jay



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On October 23, 2006 7:11 PM Jay Belanger
> 
> root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
> 
> > man, this git thing is blindingly fast.
> 
> It certainly is.  I just got a copy of silver Axiom using git.
> It seems as if git got the whole thing in less time than it took 
> svn to get a few files from the zip directory.
> 

No doubt about it, svn is a dog.

But Mercurial is faster (and some say better) than git.

See links at bottom of page

http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomSources

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com> writes:

| Greetings!  OK I think this is in now on branches 2.6.8 and head.
| Please let me know if problems persist.

Camm --

  I just checked out GCL-2.6.8pre for build with Axiom.
The build appears to fail when "makeinfo" is not present in the build
environment.
   [...]
   (see the transcript file for additional information)
   Output written on gcl-si.dvi (149 pages, 329240 bytes).
   Transcript written on gcl-si.log.
   makeinfo --html  gcl-si.texi
   make[3]: makeinfo: Command not found
   make[3]: *** [gcl-si/index.html] Error 127
   make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/gdr/build/axiom/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/info'
   [...]

That behaviour breaks Axiom build. It is a regression from previous
versions.

-- Gaby



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Hi,

  I added a few LaTeX macros to support documentation.
Future patches to some pamphlets will use them.

-- Gaby
2006-10-23  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>

	* axiom.sty.pamphlet (\section{More Macros for Pamphlet Files}):
	New.  Add more support macros.
	* Makefile.pamphlet (pamphlets): Include axiom.sty.pamphlet.
	* Makefile.in: Generate.
 
*** Makefile.in	(revision 15895)
--- Makefile.in	(local)
*************** DOC=${INT}/doc
*** 7,13 ****
  
  subdir = src/doc/
  
! pamphlets = DeveloperNotes.pamphlet Rosetta.pamphlet $(booklet_SOURCES)
  
  FILES= ${MID}/axiom.bib ${STY}/axiom.sty \
         ${DVI}/book.dvi ${DVI}/bookvol1.dvi ${DVI}/endpaper.dvi
--- 7,17 ----
  
  subdir = src/doc/
  
! pamphlets = axiom.sty.pamphlet \
! 	axiom.bib.pamphlet \
! 	DeveloperNotes.pamphlet \
! 	Rosetta.pamphlet \
! 	$(booklet_SOURCES)
  
  FILES= ${MID}/axiom.bib ${STY}/axiom.sty \
         ${DVI}/book.dvi ${DVI}/bookvol1.dvi ${DVI}/endpaper.dvi
*** Makefile.pamphlet	(revision 15895)
--- Makefile.pamphlet	(local)
*************** DOC=${INT}/doc
*** 144,150 ****
  
  subdir = src/doc/
  
! pamphlets = DeveloperNotes.pamphlet Rosetta.pamphlet $(booklet_SOURCES)
  
  FILES= ${MID}/axiom.bib ${STY}/axiom.sty \
         ${DVI}/book.dvi ${DVI}/bookvol1.dvi ${DVI}/endpaper.dvi
--- 144,154 ----
  
  subdir = src/doc/
  
! pamphlets = axiom.sty.pamphlet \
! 	axiom.bib.pamphlet \
! 	DeveloperNotes.pamphlet \
! 	Rosetta.pamphlet \
! 	$(booklet_SOURCES)
  
  FILES= ${MID}/axiom.bib ${STY}/axiom.sty \
         ${DVI}/book.dvi ${DVI}/bookvol1.dvi ${DVI}/endpaper.dvi
*** axiom.sty.pamphlet	(revision 15895)
--- axiom.sty.pamphlet	(local)
*************** Finally we make [[@]] `other' again.
*** 1909,1914 ****
--- 1909,1935 ----
  
  @
  
+ \section{More Macros for Pamphlet Files}
+ 
+ This section defines additional macros for use in pamphlet files.
+ More specifically, it provides support for typesetting file names,
+ tool names, etc.
+ <<axiom.sty>>=
+ %% typeset e.g. and i.e.
+ \newcommand{\eg}{\emph{e.g.}}
+ \newcommand{\ie}{\emph{i.e.}}
+ 
+ %% Typeset in-line code.
+ \newcommand{\Code}[1]{\texttt{#1}}
+ 
+ %% Typeset a file name
+ \newcommand{\File}[1]{{\itshape{#1}}}
+ 
+ %% Typeset a tool name, e.g. Axiom
+ \newcommand{\Tool}[1]{{\bfseries\sffamily{#1}}}
+ @
+ 
+ 
  \section{Computer Algebra names support for CATS test suite}
  
  We need to be able to mark the various computer algebra sections



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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On October 23, 2006 3:53 PM Camm Maguire wrote:
> > ...=20
> > But I see the this symbol *is* known to the gcl image.
> >=20
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm unixport/saved_gcl | grep srget
> >          U ___srget
> >=20
> > What is wrong?
> >=20
>=20
> Here is says that saved_gcl *uses* the symbol, but does not provide
> it.  We need T ___srget.
>

Aha. No "__srget" symbol defined in the gcl image? Isn't it strange?
=20
> Was our patch to o/makefile designed to remove ___srget from plt.h?
> If so, this is the culprit.  What was the reason if this is the case?

No, only saveFP and restFP are removed because the linker complains
that the symbols are not used in the context of a function. It is
not clear to me why this is not also a problem on other platforms
nor exactly what these symbols are for. Although this helps:

http://www.astro.gla.ac.uk/users/norman/note/2004/restFP

"In particular, the Apple GCC produces object code which includes
references to the restFP and saveFP symbols, which refer to assembler
routines which manipulate the floating-point state of the processor."

...

"The restFP and saveFP functions are defined in Apple's libgcc, and
so the fix is simply to include this library in your link line. The
best way of doing this is to include the option
  -lcc_dynamic
in your link line."

Maybe we need this?

> If not, we need to add code to plttest.c to get these symbols into
> plt.h.  If this makes any sense to you and you can tell me which
> is the case, we can proceed from here.
>

I have a vague understanding of the purpose of plttest.c and plt.h
from the comments in the source about what this is supposed to do.

Here is the contents of plt.h:

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ cat o/plt.h
MY_PLT(__srget),
MY_PLT(__swbuf),
MY_PLT(acos),
MY_PLT(acosh),
MY_PLT(asin),
MY_PLT(asinh),
MY_PLT(atan),
MY_PLT(atanh),
MY_PLT(cos),
MY_PLT(cosh),
MY_PLT(exp),
MY_PLT(log),
MY_PLT(setjmp),
MY_PLT(sin),
MY_PLT(sinh),
MY_PLT(tan),
MY_PLT(tanh)

--------

You will note that "__srget" (two underscores) is present.
=20
> The idea is that raw_gcl needs its own symbol for every symol that
> can be written by the compiler/gcc into an object file to be loaded.
> If symbols are in external libraries, e.g. cos() in libm, GCL compiles
> in its own reference by taking the address in C
>=20
> void *ref=3Dcos;
>=20
> This forces ldd to make a plt table, en effective trampoline, which
> will be properly relocated at runtime by ld.so.  Jumping to this
> trampoline is sufficient to get us to where we need to go. =20
>

Thanks for the explanation.

Note that __srget is not defined in an external library but rather
in the /usr/include/stdio.h:

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ grep srget /usr/include/stdio.h
int     __srget __P((FILE *));
#define __sgetc(p) (--(p)->_r < 0 ? __srget(p) : (int)(*(p)->_p++))
ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $

------

Is that significant? Does that affect how gcl should look for this
symbol?
=20
> We also have an additional mechanism to parse the raw_map file to
> look at the plt table explicitly if present.  This is not very
> portable, but the results are in si::*plt-table*.
>=20

I get:

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ gcl
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/

>si::*plt-table*

NIL

>

----------

>...
>
> > > > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f8000 -   0x5f8000=20
> > > (sz:          0)
> > > > WGCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> > > >=20
> > >
> > > Does this stop here?  Or do you see "Initializing ...." as in
> > > your compiler::link output below?
> > >
> >=20
> > It stops there.
>=20
> OK, this is definitely strange.  Could you please=20
>
> (trace system open delete-file)
>
> before the compiler::link and send me the output.

Did you mean before the save-system command?

First here is the output from compiler::link

-------

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ echo '(trace system open delete-file)
(compiler::link nil "bar") (quit)' | gcl | more

GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/

>
Warning: SYSTEM is being redefined.
Warning: OPEN is being redefined.
Warning: DELETE-FILE is being redefined.
(SYSTEM OPEN DELETE-FILE)

>
  1> (OPEN #p"./user-init.c" :DIRECTION :OUTPUT)
  <1 (OPEN #<output stream "./user-init.c">)
  1> (SYSTEM "gcc -no-cpp-precomp -c -Wall -DVOL=3Dvolatile =
-fsigned-char
-pipe -I
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../h  -O3
-fomit-frame-poin
ter -c \"./user-init.c\" -o \"./user-init.o\" -w")
  <1 (SYSTEM 0 0)
  1> (DELETE-FILE #p"./user-init.c")
  <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
  1> (OPEN "./raw_bar_map" :DIRECTION :OUTPUT)
  <1 (OPEN #<output stream "./raw_bar_map">)
  1> (SYSTEM "gcc -no-cpp-precomp -o  ./raw_bar ./user-init.o
-L/home/users/b/b
i/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/     -lgcl -lm  -lc -lgclp  ")
  <1 (SYSTEM 0 0)
  1> (DELETE-FILE #p"./user-init.o")
  <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
  1> (OPEN #p"init_bar.lsp" :DIRECTION :OUTPUT)
  <1 (OPEN #<output stream "init_bar.lsp">)
  1> (OPEN
"/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/init_gcl.lsp")
  <1 (OPEN #<input stream
"/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/
init_gcl.lsp">)
  1> (SYSTEM "./raw_bar
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/ <
init_bar.lsp")
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
Building symbol table for
/private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gc
l-2.6.8pre/raw_bar.tmp ..
loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_export.l
sp
Initializing gcl_defmacro.o
Initializing gcl_evalmacros.o
Initializing gcl_top.o
Initializing gcl_module.o
loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_autoload
.lsp

>
NIL

>
#<"COMPILER" package>

>
#<"SLOOP" package>

>
#<"SERROR" package>

>
#<"ANSI-LOOP" package>

>
#<"DEFPACKAGE" package>

>
#<"TK" package>

>
#<"SYSTEM" package>

SYSTEM>
*COMMAND-ARGS*

SYSTEM>Initializing gcl_predlib.o
Initializing gcl_setf.o
Initializing gcl_arraylib.o
Initializing gcl_assert.o
Initializing gcl_defstruct.o
Initializing gcl_describe.o
Initializing gcl_iolib.o
Initializing gcl_listlib.o
Initializing gcl_mislib.o
Initializing gcl_numlib.o
Initializing gcl_packlib.o
Initializing gcl_seq.o
Initializing gcl_seqlib.o
Initializing gcl_trace.o
Initializing gcl_sloop.o
Initializing gcl_serror.o
Initializing gcl_destructuring_bind.o
Initializing gcl_loop.o
Initializing gcl_defpackage.o
Initializing gcl_make_defpackage.o
Initializing gcl_cmpinline.o
Initializing gcl_cmputil.o
Initializing gcl_debug.o
Initializing gcl_info.o
Initializing gcl_cmptype.o
Initializing gcl_cmpbind.o
Initializing gcl_cmpblock.o
Initializing gcl_cmpcall.o
Initializing gcl_cmpcatch.o
Initializing gcl_cmpenv.o
Initializing gcl_cmpeval.o
Initializing gcl_cmpflet.o
Initializing gcl_cmpfun.o
Initializing gcl_cmpif.o
Initializing gcl_cmplabel.o
Initializing gcl_cmplam.o
Initializing gcl_cmplet.o
Initializing gcl_cmploc.o
Initializing gcl_cmpmap.o
Initializing gcl_cmpmulti.o
Initializing gcl_cmpspecial.o
Initializing gcl_cmptag.o
Initializing gcl_cmptop.o
Initializing gcl_cmpvar.o
Initializing gcl_cmpvs.o
Initializing gcl_cmpwt.o

Loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/sys-proclaim
.lisp
Finished loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/sys
-proclaim.lisp
Loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/sys-procl
aim.lisp
Finished loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/
sys-proclaim.lisp
Loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../gcl-tk/tk-packag
e.lsp
Finished loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../gcl-tk/
tk-package.lsp
Loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_cmpma
in.lsp
Warning: COMPILE-FILE is being redefined.
Warning: COMPILE is being redefined.
Warning: DISASSEMBLE is being redefined.
Finished loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/
gcl_cmpmain.lsp
Loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_auto_new
.lsp
Finished loading
/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl
_auto_new.lsp

T

>DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
heap_end:        0xb09000
core_end:        0xb0a000
mach_brkpt:     0x57df000
mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
--- List of All Regions ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
--- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
--- Header Information ---
Magic      =3D 0xfeedface
CPUType    =3D 18
CPUSubType =3D 0
FileType   =3D 0x2
NCmds      =3D 11
SizeOfCmds =3D 1744
Flags      =3D 0x00000085
Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x2032c000
Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:     0x1658
--- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
 0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
 1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
                               __text               0x2658   0x1ab044
                               __picsymbol_stub   0x1ad69c     0x18e4
                               __symbol_stub      0x1aef80          0
                               __cstring          0x1aef80    0x15f5c
                               __literal4         0x1c4edc       0x18
                               __literal8         0x1c4ef8      0x108
                               __const            0x1c5000     0x1f9c
                               __eh_frame         0x1c6f9c       0x60
 2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
                               __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
                               __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
                               __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
                               __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
                               __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
                               __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
                               __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d58
 3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000
                               __data             0x5f5000          0
 4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x201c7000   0x165000
 5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
 6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
 7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
 8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
 9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
--- Load Commands written to Output File ---
Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:         =
 0)
Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 (sz:   =
0x1c6000)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 (sz:   =
0x42e000)
        section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 (sz:     =
0xaec4)
        section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 (sz:      =
0x2c4)
        section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 (sz:      =
0x9c8)
        section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c (sz:       =
0x1c)
        section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 (sz:     =
0x2748)
        section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 (sz:     =
0x8f28)
        section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f38 (sz:   =
0x416d58)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb09000 (sz:   =
0x515000)
Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at   0xb09000 -   0xc6d1d4 (sz:   =
0x1641d4)
Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
3948 unused bytes follow Mach-O header
  <1 (SYSTEM 0 0)
  1> (DELETE-FILE #p"./raw_bar")
  <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
  1> (DELETE-FILE #p"init_bar.lsp")
  <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
"bar"

>

---------

Maybe the anomally that you were worried about is not displayed
above? I am not sure what you are looking for.

Here is the same output from save-system:

---------

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ echo '(trace system open delete-file)
(si::save-system "foo") (quit)' | gcl | more

GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter

Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/

>
Warning: SYSTEM is being redefined.
Warning: OPEN is being redefined.
Warning: DELETE-FILE is being redefined.
(SYSTEM OPEN DELETE-FILE)

>DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
heap_end:        0xb0c000
core_end:        0xb0d000
mach_brkpt:     0xe737000
mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
--- List of All Regions ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x5f5000   0x517000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
  0xb0c000 0x1f6bb000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
--- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
--- Header Information ---
Magic      =3D 0xfeedface
CPUType    =3D 18
CPUSubType =3D 0
FileType   =3D 0x2
NCmds      =3D 11
SizeOfCmds =3D 1744
Flags      =3D 0x00000085
Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x5fad0000
Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0x6f8
--- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
 0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
 1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
                               __text               0x16f8   0x1aafc8
                               __picsymbol_stub   0x1ac6c0     0x18e4
                               __symbol_stub      0x1adfa4          0
                               __cstring          0x1adfa4    0x15f5c
                               __literal4         0x1c3f00       0x18
                               __literal8         0x1c3f18      0x108
                               __const            0x1c4020     0x1f9c
                               __eh_frame         0x1c5fbc       0x60
 2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
                               __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
                               __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
                               __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
                               __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
                               __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
                               __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
                               __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d68
 3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000
                               __data             0x5f5000   0x517000
 4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x5f96b000   0x165000
 5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
 6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
 7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
 8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
 9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
--- Load Commands written to Output File ---
Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:         =
 0)
Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 (sz:   =
0x1c6000)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 (sz:   =
0x42e000)
        section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 (sz:     =
0xaec4)
        section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 (sz:      =
0x2c4)
        section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 (sz:      =
0x9c8)
        section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c (sz:       =
0x1c)
        section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 (sz:     =
0x2748)
        section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 (sz:     =
0x8f28)
        section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f48 (sz:   =
0x416d68)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb0c000 (sz:   =
0x518000)
Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at  0x1538000 -  0x169c1c0 (sz:   =
0x1641c0)
Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
12 unused bytes follow Mach-O header

--------

Note: no initializing in the above output from save-system.

> ...

Regards,
Bill Page.





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	"'Camm Maguire'" <camm@enhanced.com>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
Date: Mon, 23 Oct 2006 22:16:47 -0400
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Camm,

On October 23, 2006 9:52 PM I wrote:
> ... 
> Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> Note that __srget is not defined in an external library but rather
> in the /usr/include/stdio.h:
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ grep srget /usr/include/stdio.h
> int     __srget __P((FILE *));
> #define __sgetc(p) (--(p)->_r < 0 ? __srget(p) : (int)(*(p)->_p++))
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $
> 
> ------
> 
> Is that significant? Does that affect how gcl should look for this
> symbol?
> ...

Oops, please exclude the above comment. I must be tired, but I
realize that's nonesense. Sorry.

Regards,
Bill Page.  






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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
To: "'Camm Maguire'" <camm@enhanced.com>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Camm,

What's a dylib on OSX? I found "T ___srget" in 'libc.dylib':

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm /usr/lib/libc.dylib | grep 'T =
___srget'
9000f2a0 T ___srget

------

Also in /usr/lib/libm.dylib
9000f2a0 T ___srget

I tried to understand:

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/Dynami=
cLi
braries/Articles/DynamicLibraryUsageGuidelines.html

but the references to dynamic loading at run time scared me. ;)

Should all of this be figured out by gcl compiler::link?

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Greetings!

I think the issue is whether there is an srget in plt.h.  We want some
entry therein to generate a U ___srget in plt.o and thereby a T
___srget in raw_pre_gcl.  Then we want this entry to be generated by
code in plttest.c passed thruogh the awk and grep in o/makefile.

Can you post plt.h, nm plttest.o and nm plt.o please?

take care,

"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

> Camm,
> 
> What's a dylib on OSX? I found "T ___srget" in 'libc.dylib':
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm /usr/lib/libc.dylib | grep 'T ___srget'
> 9000f2a0 T ___srget
> 
> ------
> 
> Also in /usr/lib/libm.dylib
> 9000f2a0 T ___srget
> 
> I tried to understand:
> 
> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/DeveloperTools/Conceptual/DynamicLi
> braries/Articles/DynamicLibraryUsageGuidelines.html
> 
> but the references to dynamic loading at run time scared me. ;)
> 
> Should all of this be figured out by gcl compiler::link?
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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fyi.....

OSCAS is a mailing list I started years ago.
It was intended to be a place to discuss current CA systems
and design ideas for a new system. This grew out of a 
conference I attended sponsored by INRIA.

t

------- Start of forwarded message -------
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 00:46:26 -0400
From: Emil Volcheck <volcheck@acm.org>
To: sigsam_officers@acm.org
Cc: David Joyner <wdjoyner@gmail.com>, wdj@usna.edu,
   Tim Daly <daly@axiom-developer.org>, Joris.VanDerHoeven@math.u-psud.fr
Subject: David Joyner to do OSCAS column
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Hello, all,

I'm happy to report that David Joyner of the US Naval Academy
has offered to start reporting on free and open source computer
algebra software for the ACM Communications in Computer Algebra
and the OSCAS mailing list.  (OSCAS = Open Source Computer
Algebra Systems).

David -- thanks for offering to help, and welcome to the
SIGSAM leadership team!


- --Emil

- ----- Forwarded message from David Joyner <wdjoyner@gmail.com> -----

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From: David Joyner <wdjoyner@gmail.com>
To: Emil Volcheck <volcheck@acm.org>
Subject: Re: OSCAS, was Re: siam sec [sigsam]
Cc: David Joyner <wdj@usna.edu>
In-Reply-To: <20061023025232.GB13087@speakeasy.net>


On 10/22/06, Emil Volcheck <volcheck@acm.org> wrote:
>David,
>
>On Fri, Oct 20, 2006 at 08:15:20AM -0400, David Joyner wrote:
>>
>> This sounds interesting. Are more details available? What type of info
>> goes into the reports?
>
>Take a look at the list archives here
>
>    http://listserv.acm.org/archives/oscas.html
>
>to see what kind of content is on the list now.
>
>We don't have these reports yet.  It's just a project that I'd like a
>volunteer to work on.  I envision a report that would go out 2 or 4
>times per year over the OSCAS mailing list and appear also as a column
>in the ACM Communications in Computer Algebra.
>
>The purpose would be to provide headlines and recent developments in
>free and open source computer algebra systems.  Maple and Mathematica
>market themselves.  There's nobody doing this for FOSS systems
>generally, and we're the right people to do this.
>
>We've been trying to promote and recognize this work by including
>systems on the ISSAC CDs and DVD so that everyone who attends ISSAC
>gets this software in their hot little hands.
>
>If you're interested in doing this, it would be a very neat service to
>the community.  I would try to find people to help feed you
>information so that you don't have to do everything yourself.  For
>instance, Tim Daly to cover Axiom, and maybe someone involved with
>GAP.  You would be able to report on SAGE.
>
>So what do you think?  Would you like to volunteer?  I'd love

Yes, sounds good! Thanks for the great suggestion.
Is there a due date for the first column? Could I send a draft to you first 
for
criticism ahead of time?


>to welcome you to the SIGSAM leadership team.
>
>--Emil
>
>
>--
>Emil Volcheck
>volcheck@acm.org
>http://acm.org/~volcheck
>

- ----- End forwarded message -----

- -- 
Emil Volcheck
volcheck@acm.org
http://acm.org/~volcheck
------- End of forwarded message -------



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| fyi.....
| 
| OSCAS is a mailing list I started years ago.
| It was intended to be a place to discuss current CA systems
| and design ideas for a new system. This grew out of a 
| conference I attended sponsored by INRIA.

I've been subscribed to that list since you started it, but it does
not seem to have any activity, or was I unsubscribed?

-- Gaby



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	Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>
Subject: [Axiom-developer] Price
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I changed my mind. I ll pay 300$. Anybody else would like to add a little to
that? I'm sure there would be also some money from the axiom foundation
available.

Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at> writes:

> structures: (L: LabelType, List L) -> Generator %
> 
> The generator is not a problem, there is an easy workaround. However, the
> dependent type is a show stopper, I'm afraid.
> 
> I'm willing to pay 200$ from my own pocket if somebody makes Axiom understand
> signatures like that.

Conditions:

* make axiom understand signatures like f: (L: SomeType, l: L) -> OtherType

  and maybe f:(n: MyType) -> MyOtherType(n)

  where f is a function compiled with the aldor compiler.

  (I.e., it is not necessary to teach the spad compiler dependent types)

* before christmas

Price: 300$ (negotiable)



Martin




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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Latex hangs
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As I reported on some machines build (or just 'make dvi' on
build-improvement branch) hangs running latex.  I have now tracked
the reasons.  One is that on those machines there are missing
packeges (hyperref and/or pstricks).  It would be nice to check
at configure time that necessary latex packages are present.

Other reason in that typical latex command used during axiom build
looks like:

latex book.pamphlet --interaction nonstopmode

I guess that intention here was to avoid hangs, but this does not
work!  To make '--interaction nonstopmode' effective one has to
give it _before_ file name. So the form below is immune to hangs:

latex --interaction nonstopmode book.pamphlet

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
To: "'Camm Maguire'" <camm@enhanced.com>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Camm,

I am sorry to have distracted you with my quesition about dylib... ;)

On October 24, 2006 12:11 AM you wrote:
> 
> I think the issue is whether there is an srget in plt.h.  We want some
> entry therein to generate a U ___srget in plt.o and thereby a T
> ___srget in raw_pre_gcl.  Then we want this entry to be generated by
> code in plttest.c passed thruogh the awk and grep in o/makefile.
> 
> Can you post plt.h, nm plttest.o and nm plt.o please?
> 

Please see my previous email displaying plt.h which shows that
__srget is generated by plttest.c and is present in the header file.

> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ cat o/plt.h
> MY_PLT(__srget),
> MY_PLT(__swbuf),
> MY_PLT(acos),
> MY_PLT(acosh),
> MY_PLT(asin),
> MY_PLT(asinh),
> MY_PLT(atan),
> MY_PLT(atanh),
> MY_PLT(cos),
> MY_PLT(cosh),
> MY_PLT(exp),
> MY_PLT(log),
> MY_PLT(setjmp),
> MY_PLT(sin),
> MY_PLT(sinh),
> MY_PLT(tan),
> MY_PLT(tanh)
> 
> --------

Here are also the ouputs of nm. Note presence of ___srget in
both object files:

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm o/plt.o
         U _Cnil_body
         U _Dotnil_body
         U _FEerror
         U _FEwrong_type_argument
         U _FIXtemp
         U ___srget
         U ___swbuf
         U _acos
         U _acosh
00000670 t _arsearch
000005f0 t _arsort
         U _asin
         U _asinh
         U _atan
         U _atanh
         U _bsearch
00000004 C _car_or_cdr
00000004 C _casefun
         U _cos
         U _cosh
         U _exp
         U _fSmake_vector1_1
         U _fclose
         U _fgets
         U _fopen
         U _kcl_self
00000004 C _kf
         U _log
         U _make_cons
         U _make_fixnum1
         U _make_simple_string
         U _memchr
         U _memcmp
000006e8 d _mplt
000004f8 T _my_plt
00000000 T _parse_plt
000005c4 t _pltcomp
         U _qsort
         U _sLlist
00000004 C _sSAplt_tableA
00000770 d _s_my_dot.0
0000077c d _s_my_dot.1
         U _setjmp
         U _sin
         U _sinh
         U _small_fixnum_table
         U _snprintf
         U _sscanf
         U _stat
         U _strcmp
         U _strcpy
         U _strlen
         U _strncmp
         U _tan
         U _tanh
00000004 C _tf
         U _unlink
         U dyld_stub_binding_helper
ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm o/plttest.o
         U ___srget
         U ___swbuf
         U _acos
         U _acosh
         U _asin
         U _asinh
         U _atan
         U _atanh
         U _cos
         U _cosh
         U _exp
         U _log
00000000 T _main
         U _setjmp
         U _sin
         U _sinh
         U _tan
         U _tanh
         U dyld_stub_binding_helper
         U restFP
         U saveFP
ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $

Regards,
Bill Page.


> -----Original Message-----
> From: 
> axiom-developer-bounces+bill.page1=synthesis.anikast.ca@nongnu
> .org 
> [mailto:axiom-developer-bounces+bill.page1=synthesis.anikast.c
> a@nongnu.org] On Behalf Of Bill Page
> Sent: October 23, 2006 9:52 PM
> To: 'Camm Maguire'
> Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org; gcl-devel@gnu.org
> Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
> 
> 
> On October 23, 2006 3:53 PM Camm Maguire wrote:
> > > ... 
> > > But I see the this symbol *is* known to the gcl image.
> > > 
> > > ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm unixport/saved_gcl | 
> grep srget
> > >          U ___srget
> > > 
> > > What is wrong?
> > > 
> > 
> > Here is says that saved_gcl *uses* the symbol, but does not provide
> > it.  We need T ___srget.
> >
> 
> Aha. No "__srget" symbol defined in the gcl image? Isn't it strange?
>  
> > Was our patch to o/makefile designed to remove ___srget from plt.h?
> > If so, this is the culprit.  What was the reason if this is 
> the case?
> 
> No, only saveFP and restFP are removed because the linker complains
> that the symbols are not used in the context of a function. It is
> not clear to me why this is not also a problem on other platforms
> nor exactly what these symbols are for. Although this helps:
> 
> http://www.astro.gla.ac.uk/users/norman/note/2004/restFP
> 
> "In particular, the Apple GCC produces object code which includes
> references to the restFP and saveFP symbols, which refer to assembler
> routines which manipulate the floating-point state of the processor."
> 
> ...
> 
> "The restFP and saveFP functions are defined in Apple's libgcc, and
> so the fix is simply to include this library in your link line. The
> best way of doing this is to include the option
>   -lcc_dynamic
> in your link line."
> 
> Maybe we need this?
> 
> > If not, we need to add code to plttest.c to get these symbols into
> > plt.h.  If this makes any sense to you and you can tell me which
> > is the case, we can proceed from here.
> >
> 
> I have a vague understanding of the purpose of plttest.c and plt.h
> from the comments in the source about what this is supposed to do.
> 
> Here is the contents of plt.h:
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ cat o/plt.h
> MY_PLT(__srget),
> MY_PLT(__swbuf),
> MY_PLT(acos),
> MY_PLT(acosh),
> MY_PLT(asin),
> MY_PLT(asinh),
> MY_PLT(atan),
> MY_PLT(atanh),
> MY_PLT(cos),
> MY_PLT(cosh),
> MY_PLT(exp),
> MY_PLT(log),
> MY_PLT(setjmp),
> MY_PLT(sin),
> MY_PLT(sinh),
> MY_PLT(tan),
> MY_PLT(tanh)
> 
> --------
> 
> You will note that "__srget" (two underscores) is present.
>  
> > The idea is that raw_gcl needs its own symbol for every symol that
> > can be written by the compiler/gcc into an object file to be loaded.
> > If symbols are in external libraries, e.g. cos() in libm, 
> GCL compiles
> > in its own reference by taking the address in C
> > 
> > void *ref=cos;
> > 
> > This forces ldd to make a plt table, en effective trampoline, which
> > will be properly relocated at runtime by ld.so.  Jumping to this
> > trampoline is sufficient to get us to where we need to go.  
> >
> 
> Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> Note that __srget is not defined in an external library but rather
> in the /usr/include/stdio.h:
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ grep srget /usr/include/stdio.h
> int     __srget __P((FILE *));
> #define __sgetc(p) (--(p)->_r < 0 ? __srget(p) : (int)(*(p)->_p++))
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $
> 
> ------
> 
> Is that significant? Does that affect how gcl should look for this
> symbol?
>  
> > We also have an additional mechanism to parse the raw_map file to
> > look at the plt table explicitly if present.  This is not very
> > portable, but the results are in si::*plt-table*.
> > 
> 
> I get:
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ gcl
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >si::*plt-table*
> 
> NIL
> 
> >
> 
> ----------
> 
> >...
> >
> > > > > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f8000 -   0x5f8000 
> > > > (sz:          0)
> > > > > WGCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> > > > > 
> > > >
> > > > Does this stop here?  Or do you see "Initializing ...." as in
> > > > your compiler::link output below?
> > > >
> > > 
> > > It stops there.
> > 
> > OK, this is definitely strange.  Could you please 
> >
> > (trace system open delete-file)
> >
> > before the compiler::link and send me the output.
> 
> Did you mean before the save-system command?
> 
> First here is the output from compiler::link
> 
> -------
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ echo '(trace system open 
> delete-file)
> (compiler::link nil "bar") (quit)' | gcl | more
> 
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >
> Warning: SYSTEM is being redefined.
> Warning: OPEN is being redefined.
> Warning: DELETE-FILE is being redefined.
> (SYSTEM OPEN DELETE-FILE)
> 
> >
>   1> (OPEN #p"./user-init.c" :DIRECTION :OUTPUT)
>   <1 (OPEN #<output stream "./user-init.c">)
>   1> (SYSTEM "gcc -no-cpp-precomp -c -Wall -DVOL=volatile 
> -fsigned-char
> -pipe -I
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../h  -O3
> -fomit-frame-poin
> ter -c \"./user-init.c\" -o \"./user-init.o\" -w")
>   <1 (SYSTEM 0 0)
>   1> (DELETE-FILE #p"./user-init.c")
>   <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
>   1> (OPEN "./raw_bar_map" :DIRECTION :OUTPUT)
>   <1 (OPEN #<output stream "./raw_bar_map">)
>   1> (SYSTEM "gcc -no-cpp-precomp -o  ./raw_bar ./user-init.o
> -L/home/users/b/b
> i/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/     -lgcl -lm  -lc -lgclp  ")
>   <1 (SYSTEM 0 0)
>   1> (DELETE-FILE #p"./user-init.o")
>   <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
>   1> (OPEN #p"init_bar.lsp" :DIRECTION :OUTPUT)
>   <1 (OPEN #<output stream "init_bar.lsp">)
>   1> (OPEN
> "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/init_gcl.lsp")
>   <1 (OPEN #<input stream
> "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/
> init_gcl.lsp">)
>   1> (SYSTEM "./raw_bar
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/ <
> init_bar.lsp")
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> Building symbol table for
> /private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gc
> l-2.6.8pre/raw_bar.tmp ..
> loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gc
> l_export.l
> sp
> Initializing gcl_defmacro.o
> Initializing gcl_evalmacros.o
> Initializing gcl_top.o
> Initializing gcl_module.o
> loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gc
> l_autoload
> .lsp
> 
> >
> NIL
> 
> >
> #<"COMPILER" package>
> 
> >
> #<"SLOOP" package>
> 
> >
> #<"SERROR" package>
> 
> >
> #<"ANSI-LOOP" package>
> 
> >
> #<"DEFPACKAGE" package>
> 
> >
> #<"TK" package>
> 
> >
> #<"SYSTEM" package>
> 
> SYSTEM>
> *COMMAND-ARGS*
> 
> SYSTEM>Initializing gcl_predlib.o
> Initializing gcl_setf.o
> Initializing gcl_arraylib.o
> Initializing gcl_assert.o
> Initializing gcl_defstruct.o
> Initializing gcl_describe.o
> Initializing gcl_iolib.o
> Initializing gcl_listlib.o
> Initializing gcl_mislib.o
> Initializing gcl_numlib.o
> Initializing gcl_packlib.o
> Initializing gcl_seq.o
> Initializing gcl_seqlib.o
> Initializing gcl_trace.o
> Initializing gcl_sloop.o
> Initializing gcl_serror.o
> Initializing gcl_destructuring_bind.o
> Initializing gcl_loop.o
> Initializing gcl_defpackage.o
> Initializing gcl_make_defpackage.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpinline.o
> Initializing gcl_cmputil.o
> Initializing gcl_debug.o
> Initializing gcl_info.o
> Initializing gcl_cmptype.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpbind.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpblock.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpcall.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpcatch.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpenv.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpeval.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpflet.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpfun.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpif.o
> Initializing gcl_cmplabel.o
> Initializing gcl_cmplam.o
> Initializing gcl_cmplet.o
> Initializing gcl_cmploc.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpmap.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpmulti.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpspecial.o
> Initializing gcl_cmptag.o
> Initializing gcl_cmptop.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpvar.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpvs.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpwt.o
> 
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/sy
> s-proclaim
> .lisp
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/sys
> -proclaim.lisp
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew
> /sys-procl
> aim.lisp
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/
> sys-proclaim.lisp
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../gcl-tk
> /tk-packag
> e.lsp
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../gcl-tk/
> tk-package.lsp
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew
> /gcl_cmpma
> in.lsp
> Warning: COMPILE-FILE is being redefined.
> Warning: COMPILE is being redefined.
> Warning: DISASSEMBLE is being redefined.
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/
> gcl_cmpmain.lsp
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gc
> l_auto_new
> .lsp
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl
> _auto_new.lsp
> 
> T
> 
> >DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
> mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
> heap_end:        0xb09000
> core_end:        0xb0a000
> mach_brkpt:     0x57df000
> mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
> --- List of All Regions ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> --- Header Information ---
> Magic      = 0xfeedface
> CPUType    = 18
> CPUSubType = 0
> FileType   = 0x2
> NCmds      = 11
> SizeOfCmds = 1744
> Flags      = 0x00000085
> Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x2032c000
> Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:     0x1658
> --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
>  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
>  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
>                                __text               0x2658   0x1ab044
>                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1ad69c     0x18e4
>                                __symbol_stub      0x1aef80          0
>                                __cstring          0x1aef80    0x15f5c
>                                __literal4         0x1c4edc       0x18
>                                __literal8         0x1c4ef8      0x108
>                                __const            0x1c5000     0x1f9c
>                                __eh_frame         0x1c6f9c       0x60
>  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
>                                __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
>                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
>                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
>                                __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
>                                __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
>                                __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
>                                __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d58
>  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000
>                                __data             0x5f5000          0
>  4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x201c7000   0x165000
>  5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
>  6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
>  7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
>  8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
>  9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
> 10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 
> (sz:          0)
> Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 
> (sz:   0x1c6000)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 
> (sz:   0x42e000)
>         section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 
> (sz:     0xaec4)
>         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 
> (sz:      0x2c4)
>         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 
> (sz:      0x9c8)
>         section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c 
> (sz:       0x1c)
>         section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 
> (sz:     0x2748)
>         section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 
> (sz:     0x8f28)
>         section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f38 
> (sz:   0x416d58)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb09000 
> (sz:   0x515000)
> Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at   0xb09000 -   0xc6d1d4 
> (sz:   0x1641d4)
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
> Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
> Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
> Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
> Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
> Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
> 3948 unused bytes follow Mach-O header
>   <1 (SYSTEM 0 0)
>   1> (DELETE-FILE #p"./raw_bar")
>   <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
>   1> (DELETE-FILE #p"init_bar.lsp")
>   <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
> "bar"
> 
> >
> 
> ---------
> 
> Maybe the anomally that you were worried about is not displayed
> above? I am not sure what you are looking for.
> 
> Here is the same output from save-system:
> 
> ---------
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ echo '(trace system open 
> delete-file)
> (si::save-system "foo") (quit)' | gcl | more
> 
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >
> Warning: SYSTEM is being redefined.
> Warning: OPEN is being redefined.
> Warning: DELETE-FILE is being redefined.
> (SYSTEM OPEN DELETE-FILE)
> 
> >DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
> mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
> heap_end:        0xb0c000
> core_end:        0xb0d000
> mach_brkpt:     0xe737000
> mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
> --- List of All Regions ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000   0x517000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
>   0xb0c000 0x1f6bb000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> --- Header Information ---
> Magic      = 0xfeedface
> CPUType    = 18
> CPUSubType = 0
> FileType   = 0x2
> NCmds      = 11
> SizeOfCmds = 1744
> Flags      = 0x00000085
> Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x5fad0000
> Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0x6f8
> --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
>  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
>  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
>                                __text               0x16f8   0x1aafc8
>                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1ac6c0     0x18e4
>                                __symbol_stub      0x1adfa4          0
>                                __cstring          0x1adfa4    0x15f5c
>                                __literal4         0x1c3f00       0x18
>                                __literal8         0x1c3f18      0x108
>                                __const            0x1c4020     0x1f9c
>                                __eh_frame         0x1c5fbc       0x60
>  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
>                                __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
>                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
>                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
>                                __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
>                                __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
>                                __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
>                                __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d68
>  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000
>                                __data             0x5f5000   0x517000
>  4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x5f96b000   0x165000
>  5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
>  6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
>  7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
>  8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
>  9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
> 10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 
> (sz:          0)
> Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 
> (sz:   0x1c6000)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 
> (sz:   0x42e000)
>         section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 
> (sz:     0xaec4)
>         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 
> (sz:      0x2c4)
>         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 
> (sz:      0x9c8)
>         section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c 
> (sz:       0x1c)
>         section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 
> (sz:     0x2748)
>         section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 
> (sz:     0x8f28)
>         section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f48 
> (sz:   0x416d68)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb0c000 
> (sz:   0x518000)
> Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at  0x1538000 -  0x169c1c0 
> (sz:   0x1641c0)
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
> Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
> Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
> Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
> Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
> Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
> 12 unused bytes follow Mach-O header
> 
> --------
> 
> Note: no initializing in the above output from save-system.
> 
> > ...
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Axiom-developer mailing list
> Axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiom-developer
> 
> 





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> I guess that intention here was to avoid hangs, but this does not
> work!  To make '--interaction nonstopmode' effective one has to
> give it _before_ file name. So the form below is immune to hangs:

ah, that's useful to know.

fixed in the next release.

t



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To: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
References: <018e01c6f76d$d5a31ad0$6900a8c0@asus>
From: Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com>
Date: 24 Oct 2006 10:37:30 -0400
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Greetings!

"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

> Camm,
> 
> I am sorry to have distracted you with my quesition about dylib... ;)
> 

Not at all!  I'm trying to figure this out too.

The real problem is that the mac to which I have access does not show
this issue:

plt.h:
MY_PLT(acos),
MY_PLT(acosh),
MY_PLT(asin),
MY_PLT(asinh),
MY_PLT(atan),
MY_PLT(atanh),
MY_PLT(cos),
MY_PLT(cosh),
MY_PLT(exp),
MY_PLT(fdopen),
MY_PLT(feof),
MY_PLT(getc),
MY_PLT(getpid),
MY_PLT(log),
MY_PLT(memset),
MY_PLT(putc),
MY_PLT(read),
MY_PLT(setjmp),
MY_PLT(sin),
MY_PLT(sinh),
MY_PLT(sqrt),
MY_PLT(tan),
MY_PLT(tanh),
MY_PLT(write)

nm plttest.o
         U _acos
         U _acosh
         U _asin
         U _asinh
         U _atan
         U _atanh
         U _cos
         U _cosh
         U _exp
         U _fdopen
         U _feof
         U _getc
         U _getpid
         U _log
00000000 T _main
         U _memset
         U _putc
         U _read
         U _setjmp
         U _sin
         U _sinh
         U _sqrt
         U _tan
         U _tanh
         U _write
         U dyld_stub_binding_helper

uname -a
Darwin mason.local 8.8.0 Darwin Kernel Version 8.8.0: Fri Sep  8 17:18:57 PDT 2006; root:xnu-792.12.6.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC Power Macintosh powerpc


How many different types of macosx are there?  How can I get access to
an equivalent machine to yours?

The next step is to compile with --enable-debug, and then run
raw_pre_gcl in gdb with a single argument of unixport/.  Break at
build_symbol_table_bfd, set a break inside the loop conditionalized
with a strstr on srget, and see why this symbol is not being added.
Its probably faster for me to do it myself unless the above makes
sense to you.

Similar needs doing for compiler::link.

I had thought macosx support was done given my experience on the above
machine.  Can anyone please make the macosx os structure simple to me? 
I know that animal names are somehow involved :-)

Take care,

> On October 24, 2006 12:11 AM you wrote:
> > 
> > I think the issue is whether there is an srget in plt.h.  We want some
> > entry therein to generate a U ___srget in plt.o and thereby a T
> > ___srget in raw_pre_gcl.  Then we want this entry to be generated by
> > code in plttest.c passed thruogh the awk and grep in o/makefile.
> > 
> > Can you post plt.h, nm plttest.o and nm plt.o please?
> > 
> 
> Please see my previous email displaying plt.h which shows that
> __srget is generated by plttest.c and is present in the header file.
> 
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ cat o/plt.h
> > MY_PLT(__srget),
> > MY_PLT(__swbuf),
> > MY_PLT(acos),
> > MY_PLT(acosh),
> > MY_PLT(asin),
> > MY_PLT(asinh),
> > MY_PLT(atan),
> > MY_PLT(atanh),
> > MY_PLT(cos),
> > MY_PLT(cosh),
> > MY_PLT(exp),
> > MY_PLT(log),
> > MY_PLT(setjmp),
> > MY_PLT(sin),
> > MY_PLT(sinh),
> > MY_PLT(tan),
> > MY_PLT(tanh)
> > 
> > --------
> 
> Here are also the ouputs of nm. Note presence of ___srget in
> both object files:
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm o/plt.o
>          U _Cnil_body
>          U _Dotnil_body
>          U _FEerror
>          U _FEwrong_type_argument
>          U _FIXtemp
>          U ___srget
>          U ___swbuf
>          U _acos
>          U _acosh
> 00000670 t _arsearch
> 000005f0 t _arsort
>          U _asin
>          U _asinh
>          U _atan
>          U _atanh
>          U _bsearch
> 00000004 C _car_or_cdr
> 00000004 C _casefun
>          U _cos
>          U _cosh
>          U _exp
>          U _fSmake_vector1_1
>          U _fclose
>          U _fgets
>          U _fopen
>          U _kcl_self
> 00000004 C _kf
>          U _log
>          U _make_cons
>          U _make_fixnum1
>          U _make_simple_string
>          U _memchr
>          U _memcmp
> 000006e8 d _mplt
> 000004f8 T _my_plt
> 00000000 T _parse_plt
> 000005c4 t _pltcomp
>          U _qsort
>          U _sLlist
> 00000004 C _sSAplt_tableA
> 00000770 d _s_my_dot.0
> 0000077c d _s_my_dot.1
>          U _setjmp
>          U _sin
>          U _sinh
>          U _small_fixnum_table
>          U _snprintf
>          U _sscanf
>          U _stat
>          U _strcmp
>          U _strcpy
>          U _strlen
>          U _strncmp
>          U _tan
>          U _tanh
> 00000004 C _tf
>          U _unlink
>          U dyld_stub_binding_helper
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm o/plttest.o
>          U ___srget
>          U ___swbuf
>          U _acos
>          U _acosh
>          U _asin
>          U _asinh
>          U _atan
>          U _atanh
>          U _cos
>          U _cosh
>          U _exp
>          U _log
> 00000000 T _main
>          U _setjmp
>          U _sin
>          U _sinh
>          U _tan
>          U _tanh
>          U dyld_stub_binding_helper
>          U restFP
>          U saveFP
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: 
> > axiom-developer-bounces+bill.page1=synthesis.anikast.ca@nongnu
> > .org 
> > [mailto:axiom-developer-bounces+bill.page1=synthesis.anikast.c
> > a@nongnu.org] On Behalf Of Bill Page
> > Sent: October 23, 2006 9:52 PM
> > To: 'Camm Maguire'
> > Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org; gcl-devel@gnu.org
> > Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
> > 
> > 
> > On October 23, 2006 3:53 PM Camm Maguire wrote:
> > > > ... 
> > > > But I see the this symbol *is* known to the gcl image.
> > > > 
> > > > ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm unixport/saved_gcl | 
> > grep srget
> > > >          U ___srget
> > > > 
> > > > What is wrong?
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Here is says that saved_gcl *uses* the symbol, but does not provide
> > > it.  We need T ___srget.
> > >
> > 
> > Aha. No "__srget" symbol defined in the gcl image? Isn't it strange?
> >  
> > > Was our patch to o/makefile designed to remove ___srget from plt.h?
> > > If so, this is the culprit.  What was the reason if this is 
> > the case?
> > 
> > No, only saveFP and restFP are removed because the linker complains
> > that the symbols are not used in the context of a function. It is
> > not clear to me why this is not also a problem on other platforms
> > nor exactly what these symbols are for. Although this helps:
> > 
> > http://www.astro.gla.ac.uk/users/norman/note/2004/restFP
> > 
> > "In particular, the Apple GCC produces object code which includes
> > references to the restFP and saveFP symbols, which refer to assembler
> > routines which manipulate the floating-point state of the processor."
> > 
> > ...
> > 
> > "The restFP and saveFP functions are defined in Apple's libgcc, and
> > so the fix is simply to include this library in your link line. The
> > best way of doing this is to include the option
> >   -lcc_dynamic
> > in your link line."
> > 
> > Maybe we need this?
> > 
> > > If not, we need to add code to plttest.c to get these symbols into
> > > plt.h.  If this makes any sense to you and you can tell me which
> > > is the case, we can proceed from here.
> > >
> > 
> > I have a vague understanding of the purpose of plttest.c and plt.h
> > from the comments in the source about what this is supposed to do.
> > 
> > Here is the contents of plt.h:
> > 
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ cat o/plt.h
> > MY_PLT(__srget),
> > MY_PLT(__swbuf),
> > MY_PLT(acos),
> > MY_PLT(acosh),
> > MY_PLT(asin),
> > MY_PLT(asinh),
> > MY_PLT(atan),
> > MY_PLT(atanh),
> > MY_PLT(cos),
> > MY_PLT(cosh),
> > MY_PLT(exp),
> > MY_PLT(log),
> > MY_PLT(setjmp),
> > MY_PLT(sin),
> > MY_PLT(sinh),
> > MY_PLT(tan),
> > MY_PLT(tanh)
> > 
> > --------
> > 
> > You will note that "__srget" (two underscores) is present.
> >  
> > > The idea is that raw_gcl needs its own symbol for every symol that
> > > can be written by the compiler/gcc into an object file to be loaded.
> > > If symbols are in external libraries, e.g. cos() in libm, 
> > GCL compiles
> > > in its own reference by taking the address in C
> > > 
> > > void *ref=cos;
> > > 
> > > This forces ldd to make a plt table, en effective trampoline, which
> > > will be properly relocated at runtime by ld.so.  Jumping to this
> > > trampoline is sufficient to get us to where we need to go.  
> > >
> > 
> > Thanks for the explanation.
> > 
> > Note that __srget is not defined in an external library but rather
> > in the /usr/include/stdio.h:
> > 
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ grep srget /usr/include/stdio.h
> > int     __srget __P((FILE *));
> > #define __sgetc(p) (--(p)->_r < 0 ? __srget(p) : (int)(*(p)->_p++))
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $
> > 
> > ------
> > 
> > Is that significant? Does that affect how gcl should look for this
> > symbol?
> >  
> > > We also have an additional mechanism to parse the raw_map file to
> > > look at the plt table explicitly if present.  This is not very
> > > portable, but the results are in si::*plt-table*.
> > > 
> > 
> > I get:
> > 
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ gcl
> > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> > Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> > Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> > Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> > compatible license
> > Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> > 
> > Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> > Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> > 
> > >si::*plt-table*
> > 
> > NIL
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > ----------
> > 
> > >...
> > >
> > > > > > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f8000 -   0x5f8000 
> > > > > (sz:          0)
> > > > > > WGCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> > > > > > 
> > > > >
> > > > > Does this stop here?  Or do you see "Initializing ...." as in
> > > > > your compiler::link output below?
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > It stops there.
> > > 
> > > OK, this is definitely strange.  Could you please 
> > >
> > > (trace system open delete-file)
> > >
> > > before the compiler::link and send me the output.
> > 
> > Did you mean before the save-system command?
> > 
> > First here is the output from compiler::link
> > 
> > -------
> > 
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ echo '(trace system open 
> > delete-file)
> > (compiler::link nil "bar") (quit)' | gcl | more
> > 
> > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> > Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> > Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> > Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> > compatible license
> > Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> > 
> > Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> > Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> > 
> > >
> > Warning: SYSTEM is being redefined.
> > Warning: OPEN is being redefined.
> > Warning: DELETE-FILE is being redefined.
> > (SYSTEM OPEN DELETE-FILE)
> > 
> > >
> >   1> (OPEN #p"./user-init.c" :DIRECTION :OUTPUT)
> >   <1 (OPEN #<output stream "./user-init.c">)
> >   1> (SYSTEM "gcc -no-cpp-precomp -c -Wall -DVOL=volatile 
> > -fsigned-char
> > -pipe -I
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../h  -O3
> > -fomit-frame-poin
> > ter -c \"./user-init.c\" -o \"./user-init.o\" -w")
> >   <1 (SYSTEM 0 0)
> >   1> (DELETE-FILE #p"./user-init.c")
> >   <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
> >   1> (OPEN "./raw_bar_map" :DIRECTION :OUTPUT)
> >   <1 (OPEN #<output stream "./raw_bar_map">)
> >   1> (SYSTEM "gcc -no-cpp-precomp -o  ./raw_bar ./user-init.o
> > -L/home/users/b/b
> > i/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/     -lgcl -lm  -lc -lgclp  ")
> >   <1 (SYSTEM 0 0)
> >   1> (DELETE-FILE #p"./user-init.o")
> >   <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
> >   1> (OPEN #p"init_bar.lsp" :DIRECTION :OUTPUT)
> >   <1 (OPEN #<output stream "init_bar.lsp">)
> >   1> (OPEN
> > "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/init_gcl.lsp")
> >   <1 (OPEN #<input stream
> > "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/
> > init_gcl.lsp">)
> >   1> (SYSTEM "./raw_bar
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/ <
> > init_bar.lsp")
> > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> > Building symbol table for
> > /private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gc
> > l-2.6.8pre/raw_bar.tmp ..
> > loading
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gc
> > l_export.l
> > sp
> > Initializing gcl_defmacro.o
> > Initializing gcl_evalmacros.o
> > Initializing gcl_top.o
> > Initializing gcl_module.o
> > loading
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gc
> > l_autoload
> > .lsp
> > 
> > >
> > NIL
> > 
> > >
> > #<"COMPILER" package>
> > 
> > >
> > #<"SLOOP" package>
> > 
> > >
> > #<"SERROR" package>
> > 
> > >
> > #<"ANSI-LOOP" package>
> > 
> > >
> > #<"DEFPACKAGE" package>
> > 
> > >
> > #<"TK" package>
> > 
> > >
> > #<"SYSTEM" package>
> > 
> > SYSTEM>
> > *COMMAND-ARGS*
> > 
> > SYSTEM>Initializing gcl_predlib.o
> > Initializing gcl_setf.o
> > Initializing gcl_arraylib.o
> > Initializing gcl_assert.o
> > Initializing gcl_defstruct.o
> > Initializing gcl_describe.o
> > Initializing gcl_iolib.o
> > Initializing gcl_listlib.o
> > Initializing gcl_mislib.o
> > Initializing gcl_numlib.o
> > Initializing gcl_packlib.o
> > Initializing gcl_seq.o
> > Initializing gcl_seqlib.o
> > Initializing gcl_trace.o
> > Initializing gcl_sloop.o
> > Initializing gcl_serror.o
> > Initializing gcl_destructuring_bind.o
> > Initializing gcl_loop.o
> > Initializing gcl_defpackage.o
> > Initializing gcl_make_defpackage.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpinline.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmputil.o
> > Initializing gcl_debug.o
> > Initializing gcl_info.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmptype.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpbind.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpblock.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpcall.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpcatch.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpenv.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpeval.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpflet.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpfun.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpif.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmplabel.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmplam.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmplet.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmploc.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpmap.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpmulti.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpspecial.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmptag.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmptop.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpvar.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpvs.o
> > Initializing gcl_cmpwt.o
> > 
> > Loading
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/sy
> > s-proclaim
> > .lisp
> > Finished loading
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/sys
> > -proclaim.lisp
> > Loading
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew
> > /sys-procl
> > aim.lisp
> > Finished loading
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/
> > sys-proclaim.lisp
> > Loading
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../gcl-tk
> > /tk-packag
> > e.lsp
> > Finished loading
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../gcl-tk/
> > tk-package.lsp
> > Loading
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew
> > /gcl_cmpma
> > in.lsp
> > Warning: COMPILE-FILE is being redefined.
> > Warning: COMPILE is being redefined.
> > Warning: DISASSEMBLE is being redefined.
> > Finished loading
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/
> > gcl_cmpmain.lsp
> > Loading
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gc
> > l_auto_new
> > .lsp
> > Finished loading
> > /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl
> > _auto_new.lsp
> > 
> > T
> > 
> > >DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
> > mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
> > heap_end:        0xb09000
> > core_end:        0xb0a000
> > mach_brkpt:     0x57df000
> > mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
> > --- List of All Regions ---
> >    address       size prot maxp zone_name
> >          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
> >     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> > --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
> >    address       size prot maxp zone_name
> >          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
> >     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> > --- Header Information ---
> > Magic      = 0xfeedface
> > CPUType    = 18
> > CPUSubType = 0
> > FileType   = 0x2
> > NCmds      = 11
> > SizeOfCmds = 1744
> > Flags      = 0x00000085
> > Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x2032c000
> > Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:     0x1658
> > --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> > no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
> >  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
> >  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
> >                                __text               0x2658   0x1ab044
> >                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1ad69c     0x18e4
> >                                __symbol_stub      0x1aef80          0
> >                                __cstring          0x1aef80    0x15f5c
> >                                __literal4         0x1c4edc       0x18
> >                                __literal8         0x1c4ef8      0x108
> >                                __const            0x1c5000     0x1f9c
> >                                __eh_frame         0x1c6f9c       0x60
> >  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
> >                                __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
> >                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
> >                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
> >                                __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
> >                                __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
> >                                __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
> >                                __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d58
> >  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000
> >                                __data             0x5f5000          0
> >  4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x201c7000   0x165000
> >  5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
> >  6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
> >  7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
> >  8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
> >  9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
> > 10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> > --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> > Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 
> > (sz:          0)
> > Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 
> > (sz:   0x1c6000)
> > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 
> > (sz:   0x42e000)
> >         section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 
> > (sz:     0xaec4)
> >         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 
> > (sz:      0x2c4)
> >         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 
> > (sz:      0x9c8)
> >         section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c 
> > (sz:       0x1c)
> >         section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 
> > (sz:     0x2748)
> >         section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 
> > (sz:     0x8f28)
> >         section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f38 
> > (sz:   0x416d58)
> > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb09000 
> > (sz:   0x515000)
> > Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at   0xb09000 -   0xc6d1d4 
> > (sz:   0x1641d4)
> > Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
> > Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
> > Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
> > Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
> > Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
> > Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
> > Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
> > 3948 unused bytes follow Mach-O header
> >   <1 (SYSTEM 0 0)
> >   1> (DELETE-FILE #p"./raw_bar")
> >   <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
> >   1> (DELETE-FILE #p"init_bar.lsp")
> >   <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
> > "bar"
> > 
> > >
> > 
> > ---------
> > 
> > Maybe the anomally that you were worried about is not displayed
> > above? I am not sure what you are looking for.
> > 
> > Here is the same output from save-system:
> > 
> > ---------
> > 
> > ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ echo '(trace system open 
> > delete-file)
> > (si::save-system "foo") (quit)' | gcl | more
> > 
> > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> > Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> > Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> > Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a 
> > compatible license
> > Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> > 
> > Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> > Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> > 
> > >
> > Warning: SYSTEM is being redefined.
> > Warning: OPEN is being redefined.
> > Warning: DELETE-FILE is being redefined.
> > (SYSTEM OPEN DELETE-FILE)
> > 
> > >DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
> > mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
> > heap_end:        0xb0c000
> > core_end:        0xb0d000
> > mach_brkpt:     0xe737000
> > mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
> > --- List of All Regions ---
> >    address       size prot maxp zone_name
> >          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
> >     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x5f5000   0x517000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> >   0xb0c000 0x1f6bb000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> > --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
> >    address       size prot maxp zone_name
> >          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
> >     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
> >   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> > --- Header Information ---
> > Magic      = 0xfeedface
> > CPUType    = 18
> > CPUSubType = 0
> > FileType   = 0x2
> > NCmds      = 11
> > SizeOfCmds = 1744
> > Flags      = 0x00000085
> > Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x5fad0000
> > Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0x6f8
> > --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> > no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
> >  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
> >  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
> >                                __text               0x16f8   0x1aafc8
> >                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1ac6c0     0x18e4
> >                                __symbol_stub      0x1adfa4          0
> >                                __cstring          0x1adfa4    0x15f5c
> >                                __literal4         0x1c3f00       0x18
> >                                __literal8         0x1c3f18      0x108
> >                                __const            0x1c4020     0x1f9c
> >                                __eh_frame         0x1c5fbc       0x60
> >  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
> >                                __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
> >                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
> >                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
> >                                __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
> >                                __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
> >                                __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
> >                                __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d68
> >  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000
> >                                __data             0x5f5000   0x517000
> >  4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x5f96b000   0x165000
> >  5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
> >  6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
> >  7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
> >  8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
> >  9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
> > 10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> > --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> > Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 
> > (sz:          0)
> > Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 
> > (sz:   0x1c6000)
> > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 
> > (sz:   0x42e000)
> >         section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 
> > (sz:     0xaec4)
> >         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 
> > (sz:      0x2c4)
> >         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 
> > (sz:      0x9c8)
> >         section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c 
> > (sz:       0x1c)
> >         section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 
> > (sz:     0x2748)
> >         section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 
> > (sz:     0x8f28)
> >         section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f48 
> > (sz:   0x416d68)
> > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb0c000 
> > (sz:   0x518000)
> > Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at  0x1538000 -  0x169c1c0 
> > (sz:   0x1641c0)
> > Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
> > Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
> > Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
> > Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
> > Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
> > Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
> > Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
> > 12 unused bytes follow Mach-O header
> > 
> > --------
> > 
> > Note: no initializing in the above output from save-system.
> > 
> > > ...
> > 
> > Regards,
> > Bill Page.
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Axiom-developer mailing list
> > Axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> > http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiom-developer
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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> On October 23, 2006 7:11 PM Jay Belanger
> > 
> > root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
> > 
> > > man, this git thing is blindingly fast.
> > 
> > It certainly is.  I just got a copy of silver Axiom using git.
> > It seems as if git got the whole thing in less time than it took 
> > svn to get a few files from the zip directory.
> > 
> 
> No doubt about it, svn is a dog.
> 
> But Mercurial is faster (and some say better) than git.
> 
> See links at bottom of page
> 
> http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomSources


Jay,

You should be able to say 
  cd silver
  git pull

and get the latest change for the --interaction mode.
You can verify this if the top line of CHANGELOG has a 
date of 20061024.

Let me know if it works.

t





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I hope I'm not just cluttering up the mail list with more talk about
revision control systems, but svn had stopped working for me, and git
finally gave me a working silver branch of Axiom, and quickly, too.

"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:
...
> But Mercurial is faster (and some say better) than git.

I'll have to give it a shot.  The web page claims that it will act
in a familiar manner to CVS users.  Also, I guess Sage did switch to
using Mercurial.

> See links at bottom of page
>
> http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomSources

I don't quite get how that works (perhaps because I haven't read up on
Mercurial yet).  What would be the command to check out the silver
repository? 

Jay



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Greetings, and thanks!

Should we make makeinfo a build dependency of GCL?  We cannot generate
any documentation without it.  I.e. we can

1) silently skip documentation when makeinfo is absent

or 

2) bomb if it is not found in configure.

Take care,

Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

> Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com> writes:
> 
> | Greetings!  OK I think this is in now on branches 2.6.8 and head.
> | Please let me know if problems persist.
> 
> Camm --
> 
>   I just checked out GCL-2.6.8pre for build with Axiom.
> The build appears to fail when "makeinfo" is not present in the build
> environment.
>    [...]
>    (see the transcript file for additional information)
>    Output written on gcl-si.dvi (149 pages, 329240 bytes).
>    Transcript written on gcl-si.log.
>    makeinfo --html  gcl-si.texi
>    make[3]: makeinfo: Command not found
>    make[3]: *** [gcl-si/index.html] Error 127
>    make[3]: Leaving directory `/home/gdr/build/axiom/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/info'
>    [...]
> 
> That behaviour breaks Axiom build. It is a regression from previous
> versions.
> 
> -- Gaby
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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On 10/24/2006 03:03 PM, root wrote:
>> I guess that intention here was to avoid hangs, but this does not
>> work!  To make '--interaction nonstopmode' effective one has to
>> give it _before_ file name. So the form below is immune to hangs:
> 
> ah, that's useful to know.
> 
> fixed in the next release.
> 
> t

Cool! Were you recently saying that your Gold-To-Be is now available as 
a git archive? I fear sourceforge Silver is already out-of-date.

Hmmm... yet another version control system and seemingly no documentation at

http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomSources

so the git stuff is burried in the mail archive. :-(

Ralf



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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] GIT
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Jay,

On October 24, 2006 10:49 AM you wrote:
> 
> I hope I'm not just cluttering up the mail list with more talk
> about revision control systems,

You can't clutter up something that is already cluttered up... ;)

> but svn had stopped working for me, and git finally gave me a
> working silver branch of Axiom, and quickly, too.
>

What was your problem svn? Did you try the Google Code mirror?
 
> "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:
> ...
> > But Mercurial is faster (and some say better) than git.
> 
> I'll have to give it a shot.  The web page claims that it will act
> in a familiar manner to CVS users.  Also, I guess Sage did switch
> to using Mercurial.
>

Sage was previously using darcs. They found darcs too slow. But
I have found that even darcs is signigicantly faster than svn.

Apparently Mercurial was developed partly in response to criticism
of git by another group of developers working the linux kernel.

Mercurial: an alternative to git [pro Mercurial]
  http://lwn.net/Articles/151624

git vs hg [pro git]
http://www.jukie.net/~bart/blog/git-vs-hg

etc. etc.
 
> > See links at bottom of page
> >
> > http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomSources
> 
> I don't quite get how that works (perhaps because I haven't read
> up on Mercurial yet).  What would be the command to check out the
> silver repository? 
> 

After installing mercurial do this:

hg clone
http://page.axiom-developer.org/repo/hgwebdir.cgi/axiom/build-improvements

Regards,
Bill Page.





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> >> I guess that intention here was to avoid hangs, but this does not
> >> work!  To make '--interaction nonstopmode' effective one has to
> >> give it _before_ file name. So the form below is immune to hangs:
> > 
> > ah, that's useful to know.
> > 
> > fixed in the next release.
> > 
> > t
> 
> Cool! Were you recently saying that your Gold-To-Be is now available as 
> a git archive? I fear sourceforge Silver is already out-of-date.
> 
> Hmmm... yet another version control system and seemingly no documentation at
> 
> http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomSources
> 
> so the git stuff is burried in the mail archive. :-(

you've read about my many efforts to try to use the sourceforge SVN
and the frustrations and failures.

a lot of the reading i did also mentioned 'git', apparently written
by Linus after BitKeeper was pulled. so i read up on it and decided
to try it. i set up a silver userid on axiom-developer, copied in the
gold branch, applied the latest patches locally. then i tried to 
clone the branch on a remote machine, then remotely modify the branch
and push it back to axiom-developer. total effort was about 1 hour.
no server process is required. no setup. no Perl.

works like magic. doesn't fail. doesn't mangle binaries. blindingly
fast. easy to use. in fact, it is so fast that making source patches
feels like doing a local copy. the side-effect is that it feels easy
to maintain source code.

once cloned, push and pull just work. so keeping remote copies 
in sync is trivial, unlike the pain Bill experienced trying to
get Google syncing to work.

anyway, at this point it is just an experiment.
i just applied the --interaction patch to see if Jay can pull it.

t




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Greetings!

"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

> On October 23, 2006 3:53 PM Camm Maguire wrote:
> > > ... 
> > > But I see the this symbol *is* known to the gcl image.
> > > 
> > > ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ nm unixport/saved_gcl | grep srget
> > >          U ___srget
> > > 
> > > What is wrong?
> > > 
> > 
> > Here is says that saved_gcl *uses* the symbol, but does not provide
> > it.  We need T ___srget.
> >
> 
> Aha. No "__srget" symbol defined in the gcl image? Isn't it strange?
>  

Yes, in light of this and previous messages.  We need a gdb session on
raw_pre_gcl.  Please let me know if you would like me to walk you
through one, or whether you can provide me with remote ssh access to
the box or equivalent.

> > Was our patch to o/makefile designed to remove ___srget from plt.h?
> > If so, this is the culprit.  What was the reason if this is the case?
> 
> No, only saveFP and restFP are removed because the linker complains
> that the symbols are not used in the context of a function. It is
> not clear to me why this is not also a problem on other platforms
> nor exactly what these symbols are for. Although this helps:
> 
> http://www.astro.gla.ac.uk/users/norman/note/2004/restFP
> 
> "In particular, the Apple GCC produces object code which includes
> references to the restFP and saveFP symbols, which refer to assembler
> routines which manipulate the floating-point state of the processor."
> 
> ...
> 
> "The restFP and saveFP functions are defined in Apple's libgcc, and
> so the fix is simply to include this library in your link line. The
> best way of doing this is to include the option
>   -lcc_dynamic
> in your link line."
> 
> Maybe we need this?
> 

If we can generate a Undefined symbol error on these symbols when
loading .o files, yes.  I'm not sure at the moment why these symbols
are not output into our compiled .o, but we'd certainly know about it
by now.  I guess if it ain't broke....

> > If not, we need to add code to plttest.c to get these symbols into
> > plt.h.  If this makes any sense to you and you can tell me which
> > is the case, we can proceed from here.
> >
> 
> I have a vague understanding of the purpose of plttest.c and plt.h
> from the comments in the source about what this is supposed to do.
> 
> Here is the contents of plt.h:
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ cat o/plt.h
> MY_PLT(__srget),
> MY_PLT(__swbuf),
> MY_PLT(acos),
> MY_PLT(acosh),
> MY_PLT(asin),
> MY_PLT(asinh),
> MY_PLT(atan),
> MY_PLT(atanh),
> MY_PLT(cos),
> MY_PLT(cosh),
> MY_PLT(exp),
> MY_PLT(log),
> MY_PLT(setjmp),
> MY_PLT(sin),
> MY_PLT(sinh),
> MY_PLT(tan),
> MY_PLT(tanh)
> 
> --------
> 
> You will note that "__srget" (two underscores) is present.
>  
> > The idea is that raw_gcl needs its own symbol for every symol that
> > can be written by the compiler/gcc into an object file to be loaded.
> > If symbols are in external libraries, e.g. cos() in libm, GCL compiles
> > in its own reference by taking the address in C
> > 
> > void *ref=cos;
> > 
> > This forces ldd to make a plt table, en effective trampoline, which
> > will be properly relocated at runtime by ld.so.  Jumping to this
> > trampoline is sufficient to get us to where we need to go.  
> >
> 
> Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> Note that __srget is not defined in an external library but rather
> in the /usr/include/stdio.h:
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ grep srget /usr/include/stdio.h
> int     __srget __P((FILE *));
> #define __sgetc(p) (--(p)->_r < 0 ? __srget(p) : (int)(*(p)->_p++))
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $
> 
> ------
> 
> Is that significant? Does that affect how gcl should look for this
> symbol?

As you observed earlier, I believe it is defined in the libc 'dylib',
which is the mac version of a shared library.  The header reference
above is a prototype.

Come to think of it, there may be a problem like the following:

On Linux systems, libc symbols are postpended with a @@ and version
number.   Here is our code to deal with this (sfasli.c): (my comments
in ****)

  for (u=0;u<v;u++) {
    char *c=NULL;
    struct bfd_link_hash_entry *h;

    if (!*q[u]->name)
      continue;

    if (strncmp(q[u]->section->name,"*UND*",5) && !(q[u]->flags & BSF_WEAK))
      continue;

*** the above might skip ___srget ***

    if ((c=(char *)strstr(q[u]->name,"@@"))) {
      *c=0;
      if (!(h=bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_TRUE,MY_BFD_TRUE,MY_BFD_TRUE)))
	FEerror("Cannot make new hash entry",0);
      h->type=bfd_link_hash_new;
    } else if 
      (!(h=bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_TRUE)) &&
       !(h=bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_TRUE,MY_BFD_TRUE,MY_BFD_TRUE)))
	FEerror("Cannot make new hash entry",0);

*** There might be some other mangling than the @ for ___srget ***

    if (h->type!=bfd_link_hash_defined) {
      if (!q[u]->section)
	FEerror("Symbol ~S is missing section",1,make_simple_string(q[u]->name));
      if (!my_plt(q[u]->name,&pa)) {
/* 	 printf("my_plt %s %p\n",q[u]->name,(void *)pa);  */
 	if (q[u]->value && q[u]->value!=pa)
 	  FEerror("plt address mismatch", 0);
 	else
 	  q[u]->value=pa;
      }
      if (q[u]->value) {
	h->type=bfd_link_hash_defined;
	h->u.def.value=q[u]->value+q[u]->section->vma;
	h->u.def.section=q[u]->section;
      }
    }

    if (c) {
      *c='@';
      c=NULL;
    }
  }

This might be instructive with srget in place of cos:

objdump -x /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl |grep cos
0812f590 l     F .text	0000015b              number_cos
00000000       F *UND*	00000026              cos@@GLIBC_2.0
0804fb40       F *UND*	00000074              acosh@@GLIBC_2.0
08050440       F *UND*	00000081              cosh@@GLIBC_2.0
0812f6f0 g     F .text	00000047              Lcos
00000000       F *UND*	00000026              cosf@@GLIBC_2.0
08051200       F *UND*	00000075              acos@@GLIBC_2.0






>  
> > We also have an additional mechanism to parse the raw_map file to
> > look at the plt table explicitly if present.  This is not very
> > portable, but the results are in si::*plt-table*.
> > 
> 
> I get:
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ gcl
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >si::*plt-table*
> 
> NIL
> 
> >
> 
> ----------
> 
> >...
> >
> > > > > Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f8000 -   0x5f8000 
> > > > (sz:          0)
> > > > > WGCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> > > > > 
> > > >
> > > > Does this stop here?  Or do you see "Initializing ...." as in
> > > > your compiler::link output below?
> > > >
> > > 
> > > It stops there.
> > 
> > OK, this is definitely strange.  Could you please 
> >
> > (trace system open delete-file)
> >
> > before the compiler::link and send me the output.
> 
> Did you mean before the save-system command?
> 
> First here is the output from compiler::link
> 
> -------
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ echo '(trace system open delete-file)
> (compiler::link nil "bar") (quit)' | gcl | more
> 
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >
> Warning: SYSTEM is being redefined.
> Warning: OPEN is being redefined.
> Warning: DELETE-FILE is being redefined.
> (SYSTEM OPEN DELETE-FILE)
> 
> >
>   1> (OPEN #p"./user-init.c" :DIRECTION :OUTPUT)
>   <1 (OPEN #<output stream "./user-init.c">)
>   1> (SYSTEM "gcc -no-cpp-precomp -c -Wall -DVOL=volatile -fsigned-char
> -pipe -I
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../h  -O3
> -fomit-frame-poin
> ter -c \"./user-init.c\" -o \"./user-init.o\" -w")
>   <1 (SYSTEM 0 0)
>   1> (DELETE-FILE #p"./user-init.c")
>   <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
>   1> (OPEN "./raw_bar_map" :DIRECTION :OUTPUT)
>   <1 (OPEN #<output stream "./raw_bar_map">)
>   1> (SYSTEM "gcc -no-cpp-precomp -o  ./raw_bar ./user-init.o
> -L/home/users/b/b
> i/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/     -lgcl -lm  -lc -lgclp  ")
>   <1 (SYSTEM 0 0)
>   1> (DELETE-FILE #p"./user-init.o")
>   <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
>   1> (OPEN #p"init_bar.lsp" :DIRECTION :OUTPUT)
>   <1 (OPEN #<output stream "init_bar.lsp">)
>   1> (OPEN
> "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/init_gcl.lsp")
>   <1 (OPEN #<input stream
> "/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/
> init_gcl.lsp">)
>   1> (SYSTEM "./raw_bar
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/ <
> init_bar.lsp")
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> Building symbol table for
> /private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gc
> l-2.6.8pre/raw_bar.tmp ..
> loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_export.l
> sp
> Initializing gcl_defmacro.o
> Initializing gcl_evalmacros.o
> Initializing gcl_top.o
> Initializing gcl_module.o
> loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_autoload
> .lsp
> 
> >
> NIL
> 
> >
> #<"COMPILER" package>
> 
> >
> #<"SLOOP" package>
> 
> >
> #<"SERROR" package>
> 
> >
> #<"ANSI-LOOP" package>
> 
> >
> #<"DEFPACKAGE" package>
> 
> >
> #<"TK" package>
> 
> >
> #<"SYSTEM" package>
> 
> SYSTEM>
> *COMMAND-ARGS*
> 
> SYSTEM>Initializing gcl_predlib.o
> Initializing gcl_setf.o
> Initializing gcl_arraylib.o
> Initializing gcl_assert.o
> Initializing gcl_defstruct.o
> Initializing gcl_describe.o
> Initializing gcl_iolib.o
> Initializing gcl_listlib.o
> Initializing gcl_mislib.o
> Initializing gcl_numlib.o
> Initializing gcl_packlib.o
> Initializing gcl_seq.o
> Initializing gcl_seqlib.o
> Initializing gcl_trace.o
> Initializing gcl_sloop.o
> Initializing gcl_serror.o
> Initializing gcl_destructuring_bind.o
> Initializing gcl_loop.o
> Initializing gcl_defpackage.o
> Initializing gcl_make_defpackage.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpinline.o
> Initializing gcl_cmputil.o
> Initializing gcl_debug.o
> Initializing gcl_info.o
> Initializing gcl_cmptype.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpbind.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpblock.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpcall.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpcatch.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpenv.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpeval.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpflet.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpfun.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpif.o
> Initializing gcl_cmplabel.o
> Initializing gcl_cmplam.o
> Initializing gcl_cmplet.o
> Initializing gcl_cmploc.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpmap.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpmulti.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpspecial.o
> Initializing gcl_cmptag.o
> Initializing gcl_cmptop.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpvar.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpvs.o
> Initializing gcl_cmpwt.o
> 
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/sys-proclaim
> .lisp
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/sys
> -proclaim.lisp
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/sys-procl
> aim.lisp
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/
> sys-proclaim.lisp
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../gcl-tk/tk-packag
> e.lsp
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../gcl-tk/
> tk-package.lsp
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/gcl_cmpma
> in.lsp
> Warning: COMPILE-FILE is being redefined.
> Warning: COMPILE is being redefined.
> Warning: DISASSEMBLE is being redefined.
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../cmpnew/
> gcl_cmpmain.lsp
> Loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl_auto_new
> .lsp
> Finished loading
> /home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/lib/gcl-2.6.8/unixport/../lsp/gcl
> _auto_new.lsp
> 
> T
> 
> >DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
> mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
> heap_end:        0xb09000
> core_end:        0xb0a000
> mach_brkpt:     0x57df000
> mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
> --- List of All Regions ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> --- Header Information ---
> Magic      = 0xfeedface
> CPUType    = 18
> CPUSubType = 0
> FileType   = 0x2
> NCmds      = 11
> SizeOfCmds = 1744
> Flags      = 0x00000085
> Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x2032c000
> Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:     0x1658
> --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
>  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
>  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
>                                __text               0x2658   0x1ab044
>                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1ad69c     0x18e4
>                                __symbol_stub      0x1aef80          0
>                                __cstring          0x1aef80    0x15f5c
>                                __literal4         0x1c4edc       0x18
>                                __literal8         0x1c4ef8      0x108
>                                __const            0x1c5000     0x1f9c
>                                __eh_frame         0x1c6f9c       0x60
>  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
>                                __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
>                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
>                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
>                                __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
>                                __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
>                                __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
>                                __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d58
>  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000
>                                __data             0x5f5000          0
>  4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x201c7000   0x165000
>  5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
>  6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
>  7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
>  8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
>  9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
> 10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:          0)
> Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 (sz:   0x1c6000)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 (sz:   0x42e000)
>         section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 (sz:     0xaec4)
>         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 (sz:      0x2c4)
>         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 (sz:      0x9c8)
>         section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c (sz:       0x1c)
>         section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 (sz:     0x2748)
>         section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 (sz:     0x8f28)
>         section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f38 (sz:   0x416d58)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb09000 (sz:   0x515000)
> Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at   0xb09000 -   0xc6d1d4 (sz:   0x1641d4)
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
> Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
> Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
> Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
> Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
> Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
> 3948 unused bytes follow Mach-O header
>   <1 (SYSTEM 0 0)
>   1> (DELETE-FILE #p"./raw_bar")
>   <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
>   1> (DELETE-FILE #p"init_bar.lsp")
>   <1 (DELETE-FILE T)
> "bar"
> 
> >
> 
> ---------
> 
> Maybe the anomally that you were worried about is not displayed
> above? I am not sure what you are looking for.
> 

This looks fine.  The Writing segment output occurs once, after the
"Initializing ...".  Does the output differ if you do not trace?  Your
previous email showed a duplication of the Writing segment and no
Initializing, AFAICR.


> Here is the same output from save-system:
> 
> ---------
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ echo '(trace system open delete-file)
> (si::save-system "foo") (quit)' | gcl | more
> 
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  2.6.8 CLtL1    Oct 18 2006 15:24:28
> Source License: LGPL(gcl,gmp), GPL(unexec,bfd,xgcl)
> Binary License:  GPL due to GPL'ed components: (BFD UNEXEC)
> Modifications of this banner must retain notice of a compatible license
> Dedicated to the memory of W. Schelter
> 
> Use (help) to get some basic information on how to use GCL.
> Temporary directory for compiler files set to /tmp/
> 
> >
> Warning: SYSTEM is being redefined.
> Warning: OPEN is being redefined.
> Warning: DELETE-FILE is being redefined.
> (SYSTEM OPEN DELETE-FILE)
> 
> >DBEGIN:          0x1c7000
> mach_mapstart:   0x5f5000
> heap_end:        0xb0c000
> core_end:        0xb0d000
> mach_brkpt:     0xe737000
> mach_maplimit: 0x201c7000
> --- List of All Regions ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000   0x517000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
>   0xb0c000 0x1f6bb000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x1c6000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x1c7000   0x42e000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000 rwx  rwx  (no zone)
> --- Header Information ---
> Magic      = 0xfeedface
> CPUType    = 18
> CPUSubType = 0
> FileType   = 0x2
> NCmds      = 11
> SizeOfCmds = 1744
> Flags      = 0x00000085
> Highest address of load commands in input file:   0x5fad0000
> Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0x6f8
> --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
>  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
>  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x1c6000
>                                __text               0x16f8   0x1aafc8
>                                __picsymbol_stub   0x1ac6c0     0x18e4
>                                __symbol_stub      0x1adfa4          0
>                                __cstring          0x1adfa4    0x15f5c
>                                __literal4         0x1c3f00       0x18
>                                __literal8         0x1c3f18      0x108
>                                __const            0x1c4020     0x1f9c
>                                __eh_frame         0x1c5fbc       0x60
>  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x1c7000   0x42e000
>                                __data             0x1c7000     0xaec4
>                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1d1ec4      0x2c4
>                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x1d2188      0x9c8
>                                __dyld             0x1d2b50       0x1c
>                                __const            0x1d2b6c     0x2748
>                                __bss              0x1d52b8     0x8f28
>                                __common           0x1de1e0   0x416d68
>  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x7c __DATA             0x5f5000 0x1fbd2000
>                                __data             0x5f5000   0x517000
>  4 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT       0x5f96b000   0x165000
>  5 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
>  6 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
>  7 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
>  8 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
>  9 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
> 10 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:          0)
> Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x1c6000 (sz:   0x1c6000)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x1c6000 -   0x5f4000 (sz:   0x42e000)
>         section __data           at   0x1c6000 -   0x1d0ec4 (sz:     0xaec4)
>         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d0ec4 -   0x1d1188 (sz:      0x2c4)
>         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x1d1188 -   0x1d1b50 (sz:      0x9c8)
>         section __dyld           at   0x1d1b50 -   0x1d1b6c (sz:       0x1c)
>         section __const          at   0x1d1b6c -   0x1d42b4 (sz:     0x2748)
>         section __bss            at   0x1d42b8 -   0x1dd1e0 (sz:     0x8f28)
>         section __common         at   0x1dd1e0 -   0x5f3f48 (sz:   0x416d68)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x5f4000 -   0xb0c000 (sz:   0x518000)
> Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at  0x1538000 -  0x169c1c0 (sz:   0x1641c0)
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
> Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
> Fixed up 0/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
> Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
> Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
> Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
> 12 unused bytes follow Mach-O header
> 
> --------
> 
> Note: no initializing in the above output from save-system.
> 
> > ...

This too is fine.  And I guess the sizes are the same.

OK, at least I can reproduce this on my mac -- the link output is
garbled without the trace, and I see the size difference.  Will
investigate and report more.

Take care,

> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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From: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: [Axiom-developer] Latex and axiom.sty.tex
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There is a problem running Latex in a directory where axiom.sty.tex
is present: Latex seeing '\usepackage{axiom}' picks 'axiom.sty.tex'
from current directory and bombs seeing duplicate '\documentclass'.

This affects running Latex in src/doc directory.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com> writes:

| Greetings, and thanks!
| 
| Should we make makeinfo a build dependency of GCL?  We cannot generate
| any documentation without it.  I.e. we can
| 
| 1) silently skip documentation when makeinfo is absent
| 
| or 
| 
| 2) bomb if it is not found in configure.

My preference would be for (1).
The reason is that there are packages, e.g. Axiom, that are only
interested in the GCL image not the documentation.  They should be
given a chance to build and use the image.

-- Gaby



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To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Latex and axiom.sty.tex
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| There is a problem running Latex in a directory where axiom.sty.tex
| is present: Latex seeing '\usepackage{axiom}' picks 'axiom.sty.tex'
| from current directory and bombs seeing duplicate '\documentclass'.
| 
| This affects running Latex in src/doc directory.

I usually do out of source build so I don't see this problem.  Thanks
for the notice.

-- Gaby



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> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | There is a problem running Latex in a directory where axiom.sty.tex
> | is present: Latex seeing '\usepackage{axiom}' picks 'axiom.sty.tex'
> | from current directory and bombs seeing duplicate '\documentclass'.
> | 
> | This affects running Latex in src/doc directory.
> 
> I usually do out of source build so I don't see this problem.  Thanks
> for the notice.
> 

This affect also out of source build: both 'document' and 'latex' are
run in src/doc subdirectory of build directory. 'document' creates
'axiom.sty.tex' and 'latex' sees it. 

The problem may depend on default setting of TEXINPUTS, I have Latex
intallation from Debian 'texlive-full' package (with default settings).

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Nevertheless, last week you thought about making your Gold-to-be public.
We should have your tla branch and Silver on sourceforge and google in 
sync. Everything else confuses people no matter how many SCM-systems we 
use for axiom.

Ralf

On 10/24/2006 05:20 PM, root wrote:
>>>> I guess that intention here was to avoid hangs, but this does not
>>>> work!  To make '--interaction nonstopmode' effective one has to
>>>> give it _before_ file name. So the form below is immune to hangs:
>>> ah, that's useful to know.
>>>
>>> fixed in the next release.
>>>
>>> t
>> Cool! Were you recently saying that your Gold-To-Be is now available as 
>> a git archive? I fear sourceforge Silver is already out-of-date.
>>
>> Hmmm... yet another version control system and seemingly no documentation at
>>
>> http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomSources
>>
>> so the git stuff is burried in the mail archive. :-(
> 
> you've read about my many efforts to try to use the sourceforge SVN
> and the frustrations and failures.
> 
> a lot of the reading i did also mentioned 'git', apparently written
> by Linus after BitKeeper was pulled. so i read up on it and decided
> to try it. i set up a silver userid on axiom-developer, copied in the
> gold branch, applied the latest patches locally. then i tried to 
> clone the branch on a remote machine, then remotely modify the branch
> and push it back to axiom-developer. total effort was about 1 hour.
> no server process is required. no setup. no Perl.
> 
> works like magic. doesn't fail. doesn't mangle binaries. blindingly
> fast. easy to use. in fact, it is so fast that making source patches
> feels like doing a local copy. the side-effect is that it feels easy
> to maintain source code.
> 
> once cloned, push and pull just work. so keeping remote copies 
> in sync is trivial, unlike the pain Bill experienced trying to
> get Google syncing to work.
> 
> anyway, at this point it is just an experiment.
> i just applied the --interaction patch to see if Jay can pull it.
> 
> t



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From: "Vanuxem Gregory" <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr>
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	"Vadim V. Zhytnikov" <vvzhy@netorn.ru>
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Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: [Gcl-devel] Problems with gcl 2.6.8 and
	agraphics in Axiom
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Forwarding to axiom-developer mailing list.

> -----Message d'origine-----
> De : gcl-devel-bounces+g.vanuxem=wanadoo.fr@gnu.org 
> [mailto:gcl-devel-bounces+g.vanuxem=wanadoo.fr@gnu.org]De la part 
> de Vadim V. Zhytnikov
> Envoye : mardi 24 octobre 2006 20:23
> A : GCL List
> Objet : [Gcl-devel] Problems with gcl 2.6.8 and agraphics in Axiom
> 
> 
> Hi!
> 
> I have some troubles with axiom and recent versions gcl 2.6.8.
> I have tried to build axiom releases of April 2006 and
> September 2006 with various gcl 2.6.8 snapshots:
> 
> 1. gcl-2.6.8pre.tgz in Axiom CVS
> 2. gcl-2.6.8pre2.tgz in Axiom CVS
> 3. gcl 2.6.8 CVS October 8, 2006
> 
> In all combinations build is OK and Axiom
> seems to be in workable state.  But with newer
> gcl versions 2 and 3 I have troubles with graphics.
> Whenever I try to plot anything 2d or 3d plot
> windows pops up but it is blank. I see only
> plotted function name but graphics itself is
> missing.  No any error messages of warnings.
> I'm almost certain that something is wrong with
> recent gcl 2.6.8 since problem exist with both
> Axiom versions and gcl 2 and 3 but it disappears
> if I build Axiom with older gcl 2.6.8 (1 above).
> 
> Unfortunately I had no time to investigate problem
> in more details.  Maybe anybody has a good idea
> how to debug such peculiar situation?
> 
> With best regards,
> 
> Vadim
> 
> 
> -- 
>       Vadim V. Zhytnikov
> 
>        <vvzhy@mail.ru>
>       <vvzhy@netorn.ru>
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Gcl-devel mailing list
> Gcl-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gcl-devel
> 



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Camm,

On October 24, 2006 11:56 AM you wrote:
> > 
> > Aha. No "__srget" symbol defined in the gcl image? Isn't it strange?
> >  
> 
> Yes, in light of this and previous messages.  We need a gdb session
> on raw_pre_gcl.  Please let me know if you would like me to walk
> you through one, or whether you can provide me with remote ssh
> access to the box or equivalent.

I am using the SourceForge compile farm machine 'ppc-osx3'. All
registered SourceForge developers have access to these machines.
You should have not problem to access it. Once you can log in,
I can scp my working directories to your account.

> ... 
> Come to think of it, there may be a problem like the following:
> 
> On Linux systems, libc symbols are postpended with a @@ and
> version number.   Here is our code to deal with this (sfasli.c):
> (my comments in ****)
> 
>   for (u=0;u<v;u++) {
>     char *c=NULL;
>     struct bfd_link_hash_entry *h;
> 
>     if (!*q[u]->name)
>       continue;
> 
>     if (strncmp(q[u]->section->name,"*UND*",5) && 
> !(q[u]->flags & BSF_WEAK))
>       continue;
> 
> *** the above might skip ___srget ***
> 
>     if ((c=(char *)strstr(q[u]->name,"@@"))) {
>       *c=0;
>       if 
> (!(h=bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_TRU
> E,MY_BFD_TRUE,MY_BFD_TRUE)))
> 	FEerror("Cannot make new hash entry",0);
>       h->type=bfd_link_hash_new;
>     } else if 
>       
> (!(h=bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FAL
SE,MY_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_TRUE)) &&
>        
> !(h=bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_TRUE
> ,MY_BFD_TRUE,MY_BFD_TRUE)))
> 	FEerror("Cannot make new hash entry",0);
> 
> *** There might be some other mangling than the @ for ___srget ***
> 
>     if (h->type!=bfd_link_hash_defined) {
>       if (!q[u]->section)
> 	FEerror("Symbol ~S is missing 
> section",1,make_simple_string(q[u]->name));
>       if (!my_plt(q[u]->name,&pa)) {
> /* 	 printf("my_plt %s %p\n",q[u]->name,(void *)pa);  */
>  	if (q[u]->value && q[u]->value!=pa)
>  	  FEerror("plt address mismatch", 0);
>  	else
>  	  q[u]->value=pa;
>       }
>       if (q[u]->value) {
> 	h->type=bfd_link_hash_defined;
> 	h->u.def.value=q[u]->value+q[u]->section->vma;
> 	h->u.def.section=q[u]->section;
>       }
>     }
> 
>     if (c) {
>       *c='@';
>       c=NULL;
>     }
>   }
> 
> This might be instructive with srget in place of cos:
> 
> objdump -x /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl |grep cos
> 0812f590 l     F .text	0000015b              number_cos
> 00000000       F *UND*	00000026              cos@@GLIBC_2.0
> 0804fb40       F *UND*	00000074              acosh@@GLIBC_2.0
> 08050440       F *UND*	00000081              cosh@@GLIBC_2.0
> 0812f6f0 g     F .text	00000047              Lcos
> 00000000       F *UND*	00000026              cosf@@GLIBC_2.0
> 08051200       F *UND*	00000075              acos@@GLIBC_2.0
> 

There is no objdump on this OSX 10.2 system. :-(

Shall I try to install GNU binutils? The version bundled with GCL
or a newer one?

Regards,
Bill Page.





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I don't think that this is a problem with TEXINPUTS. \usepackage finally 
uses \include to get the file into memory. \input however, appends 
".tex" by default.

I think axiom.sty.tex should never be generated. How did you get that 
file anyway? Ah... I see that build-improvements/src/scripts/document.in 
seems to generate it.

Actually, I ran into a similar problem with ALLPROSE. All files look 
like FILE.nw. My first try was

notangle FILE.nw > FILE
noweave FILE.nw > FILE.tex

But exactly for the reason of .sty files, I've changed my mind and now say

noweave FILE.nw > FILE.nw.tex

Maybe that could be a suggestion for Axiom. The .tex files are generated 
anyway so their name does not matter.

Ralf

On 10/24/2006 07:29 PM, Waldek Hebisch wrote:
>> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
>>
>> | There is a problem running Latex in a directory where axiom.sty.tex
>> | is present: Latex seeing '\usepackage{axiom}' picks 'axiom.sty.tex'
>> | from current directory and bombs seeing duplicate '\documentclass'.
>> | 
>> | This affects running Latex in src/doc directory.
>>
>> I usually do out of source build so I don't see this problem.  Thanks
>> for the notice.
>>
> 
> This affect also out of source build: both 'document' and 'latex' are
> run in src/doc subdirectory of build directory. 'document' creates
> 'axiom.sty.tex' and 'latex' sees it. 
> 
> The problem may depend on default setting of TEXINPUTS, I have Latex
> intallation from Debian 'texlive-full' package (with default settings).
> 



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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
To: "'Ralf Hemmecke'" <ralf@hemmecke.de>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] Latex hangs
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 14:13:23 -0400
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On October 24, 2006 1:53 PM Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
> 
> Nevertheless, last week you thought about making your Gold-to-be
> public. We should have your tla branch and Silver on sourceforge
> and google in sync. Everything else confuses people no matter how
> many SCM-systems we use for axiom.
> 

I think that if Tim likes git, then dropping arch (tla) in favour
of git would be big step forward - not as nice as if everyone could
agree on some just one SVM, but much better. At least Tailor would
allow simple two-way sync'ing between git and svn (and hg and darcs)
where as this is not possible with tla.

I use Tailor now to keep darcs and hg versions of build-improvements
branch in sync with Gaby's svn branch every night. Adding git to this
automatic interchange would be very simple.

I can add a paragraph in the Experiment section of AxiomSources for
git if you like.

Regards,
Bill Page.

> 
> On 10/24/2006 05:20 PM, root wrote:
> >>>> I guess that intention here was to avoid hangs, but this does not
> >>>> work!  To make '--interaction nonstopmode' effective one has to
> >>>> give it _before_ file name. So the form below is immune to hangs:
> >>> ah, that's useful to know.
> >>>
> >>> fixed in the next release.
> >>>
> >>> t
> >> Cool! Were you recently saying that your Gold-To-Be is now 
> >> available as a git archive? I fear sourceforge Silver is already
> >> out-of-date.
> >>
> >> Hmmm... yet another version control system and seemingly 
> no documentation at
> >>
> >> http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomSources
> >>
> >> so the git stuff is burried in the mail archive. :-(
> > 
> > you've read about my many efforts to try to use the sourceforge SVN
> > and the frustrations and failures.
> > 
> > a lot of the reading i did also mentioned 'git', apparently written
> > by Linus after BitKeeper was pulled. so i read up on it and decided
> > to try it. i set up a silver userid on axiom-developer, 
> copied in the
> > gold branch, applied the latest patches locally. then i tried to 
> > clone the branch on a remote machine, then remotely modify 
> the branch
> > and push it back to axiom-developer. total effort was about 1 hour.
> > no server process is required. no setup. no Perl.
> > 
> > works like magic. doesn't fail. doesn't mangle binaries. blindingly
> > fast. easy to use. in fact, it is so fast that making source patches
> > feels like doing a local copy. the side-effect is that it feels easy
> > to maintain source code.
> > 
> > once cloned, push and pull just work. so keeping remote copies 
> > in sync is trivial, unlike the pain Bill experienced trying to
> > get Google syncing to work.
> > 
> > anyway, at this point it is just an experiment.
> > i just applied the --interaction patch to see if Jay can pull it.
> > 
> > t
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Axiom-developer mailing list
> Axiom-developer@nongnu.org
> http://lists.nongnu.org/mailman/listinfo/axiom-developer
> 
> 





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Bill,

What is the state of SVN on axiom-developer?
Do you feel it can be used?
If I try to update it with the changes what breaks?

t



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] GIT
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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:
...
>> but svn had stopped working for me, and git finally gave me a
>> working silver branch of Axiom, and quickly, too.
>>
>
> What was your problem svn? Did you try the Google Code mirror?

When I tried to check out from axiom-developer, I kept getting errors.
I could check out from google, but it was an older version that had
build problems.

> Apparently Mercurial was developed partly in response to criticism
> of git by another group of developers working the linux kernel.

I guess that git and mercurial are supposed to play nice together.

> After installing mercurial do this:
>
> hg clone
> http://page.axiom-developer.org/repo/hgwebdir.cgi/axiom/build-improvements

Thanks.

Jay



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: [Gcl-devel] Problems with gcl 2.6.8 and
	agraphics in Axiom
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Greetings!

It would be most helpful if someone could post diff -ruN between
1. and 2.

Take care,

"Vanuxem Gregory" <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr> writes:

> Forwarding to axiom-developer mailing list.
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : gcl-devel-bounces+g.vanuxem=wanadoo.fr@gnu.org 
> > [mailto:gcl-devel-bounces+g.vanuxem=wanadoo.fr@gnu.org]De la part 
> > de Vadim V. Zhytnikov
> > Envoye : mardi 24 octobre 2006 20:23
> > A : GCL List
> > Objet : [Gcl-devel] Problems with gcl 2.6.8 and agraphics in Axiom
> > 
> > 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > I have some troubles with axiom and recent versions gcl 2.6.8.
> > I have tried to build axiom releases of April 2006 and
> > September 2006 with various gcl 2.6.8 snapshots:
> > 
> > 1. gcl-2.6.8pre.tgz in Axiom CVS
> > 2. gcl-2.6.8pre2.tgz in Axiom CVS
> > 3. gcl 2.6.8 CVS October 8, 2006
> > 
> > In all combinations build is OK and Axiom
> > seems to be in workable state.  But with newer
> > gcl versions 2 and 3 I have troubles with graphics.
> > Whenever I try to plot anything 2d or 3d plot
> > windows pops up but it is blank. I see only
> > plotted function name but graphics itself is
> > missing.  No any error messages of warnings.
> > I'm almost certain that something is wrong with
> > recent gcl 2.6.8 since problem exist with both
> > Axiom versions and gcl 2 and 3 but it disappears
> > if I build Axiom with older gcl 2.6.8 (1 above).
> > 
> > Unfortunately I had no time to investigate problem
> > in more details.  Maybe anybody has a good idea
> > how to debug such peculiar situation?
> > 
> > With best regards,
> > 
> > Vadim
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> >       Vadim V. Zhytnikov
> > 
> >        <vvzhy@mail.ru>
> >       <vvzhy@netorn.ru>
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gcl-devel mailing list
> > Gcl-devel@gnu.org
> > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gcl-devel
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Gcl-devel mailing list
> Gcl-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gcl-devel
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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Ralf Hemmecke <ralf@hemmecke.de> writes:

| Nevertheless, last week you thought about making your Gold-to-be public.
| We should have your tla branch and Silver on sourceforge and google in
| sync. Everything else confuses people no matter how many SCM-systems
| we use for axiom.

Axiom is the only project I know of that has more SCM than active
developers :-)

-- Gaby



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Ralf Hemmecke <ralf@hemmecke.de> writes:

| I don't think that this is a problem with TEXINPUTS. \usepackage
| finally uses \include to get the file into memory. \input however,
| appends ".tex" by default.
| 
| I think axiom.sty.tex should never be generated.

We need to latex the documentation in axiom.sty.pamphlet.

| How did you get that
| file anyway? Ah... I see that
| build-improvements/src/scripts/document.in seems to generate it.

yes, just like document did before (I think).

[...]

| Maybe that could be a suggestion for Axiom. The .tex files are
| generated anyway so their name does not matter.

Let me moll over this; I'll get back to you.

-- Gaby



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Le mardi 24 octobre 2006 =E0 15:35 -0400, Camm Maguire a =E9crit :
> Greetings!
>=20
> It would be most helpful if someone could post diff -ruN between
> 1. and 2.

A mail that I had to send (it's not what you are asking but...):

Hello,

About the valuable remark of Vadim V. Zhytnikov (thank you very much),
the code produced by gcl 2) and 3) is different (incorrect ?) for, at
least, src/interp/sockio.lisp.pamphlet (if I swith to 1) I only need to
rebuild sockio.lisp to have graphics).

Greg




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Le mardi 24 octobre 2006 =E0 21:47 +0200, Vanuxem Gr=E9gory a =E9crit :
> Le mardi 24 octobre 2006 =E0 15:35 -0400, Camm Maguire a =E9crit :
> > Greetings!
> >=20
> > It would be most helpful if someone could post diff -ruN between
> > 1. and 2.
>=20
> A mail that I had to send (it's not what you are asking but...):
>=20
> Hello,
>=20
> About the valuable remark of Vadim V. Zhytnikov (thank you very much),
> the code produced by gcl 2) and 3) is different (incorrect ?) for, at
> least, src/interp/sockio.lisp.pamphlet (if I swith to 1) I only need to
> rebuild sockio.lisp to have graphics).

Different between gcl-2.6.8pre (Axiom cvs) and gcl-2.6.8pre2 (Axiom cvs)
of course.

Greg




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the reason gcl-2.6.8pre2 exists is that the gcl-2.6.8pre does not
build properly on Fedora Core 5. However, FC6 just went gold today
and i'm downloading the torrent now. i'll test it there. 

t



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Tim,

On October 24, 2006 2:28 PM you asked:
> 
> What is the state of SVN on axiom-developer?

SVN client version 1.4 and SVK both work fine. I still have
a problem installing SVN server because that requires a newer
version of Apache then we are currently running. I downloaded
and compiled a new version of Apache but I ran into trouble
because the httpd.conf we use is quite complicated and it did
not translate directly to the new version of Apache and I was
afraid to cause too much disruption to people who were accessing
the server. At that point I ran out of time, went off to Seattle,
started playing with Sage, etc. etc. and have not yet got back
to resolving the problem with installing the new Apache. I don't
think the problems are that significant. I think just the
configuration file needs appropriate tweaking.

After the new version of Apache is installed then completing
the SVN server installation *should* be straight-forward -
but would be an unexpected pleasure because nothing I have
done with SVN so far has been easy. :-( If I get two days to
rub together, I should be able to finish this. Anyone willing
to help?

> Do you feel it can be used?

You can create repositories, no problem. But you just can't
access then except locally via file:///

> If I try to update it with the changes what breaks?
> 

Nothing (I think) but you can only do that as a local user
logged into via ssh to axiom-developer.org.

BTW, if you are concerned about continuing problems trying
to update the SVN repository at SourceForge but are still
willing to give SVN a change, you might want to try updating
the repository at Google Code. I have had fewer problems (:
but not no problems :) accessing SVN at Google. If you do
update something there, I think I can figure out how to
automatically propagate the change back to SourceForge via
SVK on axiom-developer (maybe).

Regards,
Bill Page.





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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] GIT
Date: Tue, 24 Oct 2006 20:57:17 -0400
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On October 24, 2006 2:53 PM Jay Belanger wrote:
> 
> "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:
> ...
> >> but svn had stopped working for me, and git finally gave me
> >> a working silver branch of Axiom, and quickly, too.
> >>
> >
> > What was your problem svn? Did you try the Google Code mirror?
> 
> When I tried to check out from axiom-developer, I kept getting
> errors.

Me too, although usually after restarting the process 5 or 6 times
I could get the whole thing. :-( Not very satisfactory, I agree.

> I could check out from google, but it was an older version that
> had build problems.

???

To the best of my ability to make this true, the contents of
the SVN repository on Google is identical the the SourceForge
repository. A batch job runs 'svk sync' from SourceForge to Google
every night. Please let me know if you suspect any differences
between these two repositories.

> 
> > Apparently Mercurial was developed partly in response to
> > criticism of git by another group of developers working the
> > linux kernel.
> 
> I guess that git and mercurial are supposed to play nice together.
>

Yes. The user interface is nearly the same. Mercurial uses a
radically different way of storing revisions and generating
versions which is claimed to be faster. After a quick look at
this to me it seems rather similar to what darcs does -
manipulating and composing patches rather than always creating
intermediate versions.
 
> > After installing mercurial do this:
> >

hg clone
http://page.axiom-developer.org/repo/hgwebdir.cgi/axiom/build-improvements

> 
> Thanks.
> 

I think you will find install mercurial surprisingly easy. Let me
know how this turns out.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Subject: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and hypertex pages
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Recentny installation paths changed, so that hypertex is installed
in '$AXIOM/share/hypertex'.  However, 
'src/share/doc/hypertex/pages/util.ht' has hardcoded paths to
'$AXIOM/../../share/doc/hypertex' which means that hypertex can
not find its graphic files (bitmaps and viewports). 

Worse yet, many pages have hardcoded paths to viewports, so graphic
examples do not work.

Finally, 'htadd' is not run, but since 'util.ht' from 
'src/hyper/pages' is replaced by (different) version form
'src/share/doc/hypertex/pages' the database 'ht.db' gets out
of date.

First and third problem can be fixed by using 'util.ht' from
'src/hyper/pages' (IIUC 'ht.db' was generated using this one).
For third problem I would suggest removing 'ht.db' from "sources"
and generate one using a Makefile rule.

The second problem is harder: best solution would be to automatically
regenerate example pages (saving download size and as a byproduct getting
correct paths) but ATM the command which should regenerate grafic
does not work correctly.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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From: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] Latex hangs
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On October 24, 2006 3:33 PM Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> 
> Ralf Hemmecke <ralf@hemmecke.de> writes:
> 
> | Nevertheless, last week you thought about making your 
> | Gold-to-be public. We should have your tla branch and Silver
> | on sourceforge and google in sync. Everything else confuses
> | people no matter how many SCM-systems we use for axiom.

I think it might be possible using Tailor to automatically sync
tla (on axiom-developer) to svn (on SourceForge and Google).
Tailor can apparenly read from tla repositories but not write.
This would let Tim blissfully continue to use tla while the
rest of us deal with svn. The sync would be only one way: from
tla axiom--main--1 to snv trunk. But Tim has said that he does
not want to automatically propagate changes into the tla
repositories that he controls anyway, right Tim?

Do you think this is worth trying or are we really moving to
yet another SCM for Axiom Gold?

> 
> Axiom is the only project I know of that has more SCM than
> active developers :-)
> 

Hmmm... now who was that guy who insisted on adding svn to this
mix in this first place? :-)

Regards,
Bill Page.





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> Recentny installation paths changed, so that hypertex is installed
> in '$AXIOM/share/hypertex'.  However, 
> 'src/share/doc/hypertex/pages/util.ht' has hardcoded paths to
> '$AXIOM/../../share/doc/hypertex' which means that hypertex can
> not find its graphic files (bitmaps and viewports). 

this was fixed in --patch-50 on 20060814 (see CHANGELOG)

t



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Bill Page wrote:
> On October 24, 2006 2:53 PM Jay Belanger wrote:
> > I could check out from google, but it was an older version that
> > had build problems.
> 
> ???
> 
> To the best of my ability to make this true, the contents of
> the SVN repository on Google is identical the the SourceForge
> repository. A batch job runs 'svk sync' from SourceForge to Google
> every night. Please let me know if you suspect any differences
> between these two repositories.
> 

I fetched silver from SourceForge.  The last ChangeLog entry is from
2006-09-14 (so it is somewhat old) and it has build problems (fixed
in build-improvenents): one has to remove by hand '.svn' subdirectories,
full Latex installation is needed.  I fetched silver about two
weeks ago, but 'svn update' tell me that it is still up to date...

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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As few people noticed hypertex searches for constructors where
giving no result, for example clicking on "NAG link" and then
on "Browser pages for individual routines" gives:

There is no constructor matching pattern  "Nag*"

AFAICS it is due to fake 'libdb.text' which is copied from
'src/algebra' into target algebra directory. If one instead
uses freshly build 'libdb.text' then hypertex is able to
find Nag routines. BTW I also copied freshly build 'comdb.text'
to the target algebra directory, since apparently 'libdb.text'
contains references to 'comdb.text' but I am not sure is
'comdb.text' is actually used (I was able to find Nag routines
both with and without 'comdb.text').

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Latex hangs
References: <01fc01c6f7d3$2d121e00$6900a8c0@asus>
From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

[...]

| > Axiom is the only project I know of that has more SCM than
| > active developers :-)
| >=20
|=20
| Hmmm... now who was that guy who insisted on adding svn to this
| mix in this first place? :-)

Touch=E9.

Seriously, I must confess that with respect to other more complex
projects I've been involved in directly or indirectly, this is the
first group where I see so much problems. (I had far worse fears for
GCC a year ago because at the time, we were using an *experimental*
version of GCC made "on demand" and I was amazed that we did not get
into such a mess as here).

So, I suspect we have to make a list of people for whom either SF or
Google SVN works and decide where we go from there.

-- Gaby



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To: "'Waldek Hebisch'" <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] GIT
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On October 24, 2006 9:26 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> 
> Bill Page wrote:
> > On October 24, 2006 2:53 PM Jay Belanger wrote:
> > > I could check out from google, but it was an older version that
> > > had build problems.
> > 
> > ???
> > 
> > To the best of my ability to make this true, the contents of
> > the SVN repository on Google is identical the the SourceForge
> > repository. A batch job runs 'svk sync' from SourceForge to Google
> > every night. Please let me know if you suspect any differences
> > between these two repositories.
> > 
> 
> I fetched silver from SourceForge.

By "silver" do you mean SourceForge SVN /trunk?

> The last ChangeLog entry is from 2006-09-14 (so it is somewhat old)
> and it has build problems (fixed in build-improvenents): one has
> to remove by hand '.svn' subdirectories, full Latex installation
> is needed. I fetched silver about two weeks ago, but 'svn update'
> tell me that it is still up to date...
> 

So far as I know, no one has been updating SourceForge SVN /trunk
aka. "silver" lately. It was originally created by converting the
CVS version of patch-49 at SourceForge to SVN using the SourceForge
CVS to SVN migration tool. Gaby branched build-improvements from this
version of /trunk. After the migration of CVS to SVN the problem of
incorrectly marked binary files in the CVS was discovered and Ralf
Hemmecke committed some patches to correct the resulting corrupted
binary files in /trunk. Meanwhile Tim Daly has had serious problems
trying to commit changes to SourceForge SVN and so none of the
patch-50 changes are in /trunk (Or are they? I might be confused
about that.) Also, as far as I know, Tim has not committed any
new patches since patch-50 to the tla archive, right Tim?

In any case, my point is that the version of /trunk at Google
should be identical to the version of /trunk at SourceForge because
we have an automatic process in place to keep them in sync. In fact
the whole repository at Google, including the build-improvements
branch, should be identical to the SVN repository at SourceForge.
If this is not the case, please let me know.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] build-improvements and hypertex pages
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Recentny installation paths changed, so that hypertex is installed
| in '$AXIOM/share/hypertex'.  However, 
| 'src/share/doc/hypertex/pages/util.ht' has hardcoded paths to
| '$AXIOM/../../share/doc/hypertex' which means that hypertex can
| not find its graphic files (bitmaps and viewports). 
| 
| Worse yet, many pages have hardcoded paths to viewports, so graphic
| examples do not work.

Those are bugs to be corrected, on my TODO list.  I suspect I should
update the README.build-improvements.

Thanks for sneding a notice.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and constructors
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| As few people noticed hypertex searches for constructors where
| giving no result, for example clicking on "NAG link" and then
| on "Browser pages for individual routines" gives:
| 
| There is no constructor matching pattern  "Nag*"
| 
| AFAICS it is due to fake 'libdb.text' which is copied from
| 'src/algebra' into target algebra directory. If one instead
| uses freshly build 'libdb.text' then hypertex is able to
| find Nag routines. BTW I also copied freshly build 'comdb.text'
| to the target algebra directory, since apparently 'libdb.text'
| contains references to 'comdb.text' but I am not sure is
| 'comdb.text' is actually used (I was able to find Nag routines
| both with and without 'comdb.text').

Kudos for your detective work.

>From my perspective, in the majority of cases it is WRONG for Axiom to
ever cache things and copy them directly to installation.  We should
be installing info about things we have built, not things that were
built somewhere else and cached.  

Erring on the conservative side, I would be glad to review a patch that
copy both libdb.text and comdb.text freshly built.  The cached files
should go away.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Latex hangs
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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

| On October 24, 2006 3:33 PM Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > 
| > Ralf Hemmecke <ralf@hemmecke.de> writes:
| > 
| > | Nevertheless, last week you thought about making your 
| > | Gold-to-be public. We should have your tla branch and Silver
| > | on sourceforge and google in sync. Everything else confuses
| > | people no matter how many SCM-systems we use for axiom.
| 
| I think it might be possible using Tailor to automatically sync
| tla (on axiom-developer) to svn (on SourceForge and Google).
| Tailor can apparenly read from tla repositories but not write.
| This would let Tim blissfully continue to use tla while the
| rest of us deal with svn. The sync would be only one way: from
| tla axiom--main--1 to snv trunk. But Tim has said that he does
| not want to automatically propagate changes into the tla
| repositories that he controls anyway, right Tim?

I'll repeat my opinion again:  I believe it is WRONG to keep things
secret until they are released.  True, I have many local trees for
experiments; but I publish them as soon as possible (with their
errors).  That way bugs have chances to be discovered much faster.  If
you look at recent activity on build-improvements, I don't think I
need to cite a particular individual to support the case.
I'm unimpressed by single update consisting of a big patch as a release.
I'm of the opnion that Tim should update the Gold-to-be often.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] GIT
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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

[...]

| So far as I know, no one has been updating SourceForge SVN /trunk
| aka. "silver" lately. It was originally created by converting the
| CVS version of patch-49 at SourceForge to SVN using the SourceForge
| CVS to SVN migration tool. Gaby branched build-improvements from this
| version of /trunk. After the migration of CVS to SVN the problem of
| incorrectly marked binary files in the CVS was discovered and Ralf
| Hemmecke committed some patches to correct the resulting corrupted
| binary files in /trunk. Meanwhile Tim Daly has had serious problems
| trying to commit changes to SourceForge SVN and so none of the
| patch-50 changes are in /trunk (Or are they? I might be confused
| about that.) Also, as far as I know, Tim has not committed any
| new patches since patch-50 to the tla archive, right Tim?

My understanding of the silver branch from its birth is that it is
where we apply "blessed" patches, get tests before they ever go to
gold (which is supposed to be the eternal release branch, most
stable).  [Experiments are conducted on branches.]  However, for
various reasons, Tim never followed that plan.  I've repeatedly requested
that he sent his patches to the list even when he does not intend to
maintain silver (I never conceived of silver as being maintainer by
Tim).  That rarely happened. 

My updated check out of silver has this on the top of ChangeLog:

2006-09-14  Ralf Hemmecke  <ralf@hemmecke.de>

        * src/doc/french/ac20.pdf, src/doc/french/manuel1.pdf,
        src/doc/french/manuel2.pdf, src/doc/bookvol1.pdf,
        src/share/algebra/libaxiom.al, zips/tla-1.1.tar.gz, *.Z:
        Corrected corrupted binary files by taking the corresponding files
        from axiom--main--1--patch-50.
        cd $Gold
        find . -type f ! -regex '.*\.arch-ids.*' ! -regex '.*{arch}.*' \
             ! -regex '.*\.patch' ! -exec cmp {}
        $Silver/trunk/axiom/{} ';' \
             -exec cp {} $Silver/trunk/axiom/{} ';'


I branched from silver (as I encourage everybody to do) to conduct 
experiments related to improving the existing build machinery.
Once I've resolved the most outstanding issues, I'll send a message
proposing merge to trunk (silver).  I'm even more positive about it
than I was a couple of months ago.  At that time, I suspect we will
have even more interesting debates ;-)

| In any case, my point is that the version of /trunk at Google
| should be identical to the version of /trunk at SourceForge

agreed.  I believe anything else is a good recipe for more confusion.



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currently gold exists in arch (axiom--main--1) and in the CVS
on sourceforge and savannah. i had planned to keep the silver
branch up to date at the root of SVN but SVN fails to work for me.

i've been unable to use SVN and could generate no interest in GIT.

i've created a silver branch in the arch tree next to the gold branch. 

  tla get axiom--silver--1

which will contain any patch that will be applied at the next patch
to gold (in this case they are pending updates to --patch-51). Note
that the silver patch numbering scheme will have no relation to the
gold patch numbering scheme (because of the way arch naming works).

there is NO guarantee that axiom--silver--1 will compile or work.
i generally do heavy testing before release but that takes several
days, many machines, and careful checking which i cannot do except
on the promised two-month intervals.




there seems to be a belief that i'm hiding patches or failing to 
put them on the web. almost every patch except adding people like
Waldek and Frithjof to the credits list has been published.

t



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 > I fetched silver from SourceForge.  The last ChangeLog entry is from
 > 2006-09-14 (so it is somewhat old) and it has build problems (fixed
 > in build-improvenents): one has to remove by hand '.svn' subdirectories,
 > full Latex installation is needed.  I fetched silver about two
 > weeks ago, but 'svn update' tell me that it is still up to date...

You see, Tim applied patches to his Gold-to-be and now Silver is no 
longer in sync with that. Tim, mirror your Gold-to-be branch publicly 
and accept the offer of Bill to move your changes to sourceforge.

How to move things from any other place back to Tim is another issue. 
But the mailing-list seemed to work up to now.

Ralf



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--- root <daly@axiom-developer.org> wrote:

> i've been unable to use SVN and could generate no interest in GIT.

It's interesting to me, but I'm somewhat dismayed by the multitude of
systems we are going through.  I would have been happy to standardize
on and learn Arch, but as it is no longer maintained that's not really
a viable long term option.

If GIT works fast and suits our needs, I'd be glad to learn that.  More
important to me is that we pick SOMETHING.  Automatically syncing to
other repositories is fine for backup purposes, but I think it is a
distraction to be spending so much time on tools rather than Axiom
itself.

There are too many "live" trees.  I can understand different branches
on an individual machine, but for online work of this nature I think
scattering changes over half a dozen repositories is a Bad Idea.  Too
much chance of a patch getting lost.  I uploaded some files that had
been broken down into smaller chunks onto the wiki axiom--test--1
branch (I think).  Did that ever get noticed or did it just get lost? 
It's too easy to do work that doesn't get noticed by the "cricical core
mass" of the project.  Maxima has one central repository where all
changes wind up, and I think that has worked out fairly well.  Branches
are generally made for releases only.

I'm less concerned with what tool we use, and more concerned that we
just pick a tool and use it.  Ultimately everyone can generate tarballs
and use tools to make and merge changesets into their own favorite
local system - for the project, we need to focus more and avoid the
endless tool parade.  I would have been fine with SVN, but the problems
key developers are having with running it make it problematic.  If
everybody likes GIT that's great - I'll be glad to install it - but
let's pick something and go with it.

Cheers,
CY

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From: "Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com>
To: "Ralf Hemmecke" <ralf@hemmecke.de>
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 > You see, Tim applied patches to his Gold-to-be and now Silver is no
> longer in sync with that. Tim, mirror your Gold-to-be branch publicly
> and accept the offer of Bill to move your changes to sourceforge.
>
> How to move things from any other place back to Tim is another issue.
> But the mailing-list seemed to work up to now.

I think Tim said that he had problems to commit to Sourceforge. The purpose
of the Google repository was to see if it was possible to be an alternative to
sourceforge. However, Google is not been used to commit changes, so basically
it has not been tested.

Alfredo



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On October 25, 2006 5:18 AM Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
> 
> >   tla get axiom--silver--1
> ...
> I hope it is not too hard for you to convince "tailor" to move
> the patches from Tim to SourceForge.
> ...

If everyone agrees (and especially, Tim Daly agrees) then I would
delete the current SourceForge SVN /trunk and replace it with a
copy of axiom--silver--1 that is automatically maintained in sync
by running Tailor every night, like we currently do between
SourceForge and Google and between the build-improvement branch
and it's experimental Mercurial and Darcs mirrors. (Actually
SourceForge->Google uses the SVN-specific 'svk smerge' command
but the result is the same as Tailor between different repositories.)

This would mean that when Tim commits changesets to axiom--silver--1,
SourceForge SVN /trunk would automatically receive the same changes.
It would be possible to check out from either axiom--silver--1 or
SourceForge SVN /trunk and get the same source code.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> So, I suspect we have to make a list of people for whom either SF or
> Google SVN works and decide where we go from there.
> 

For me SF SVN works. I did only tiny commits and one of them failed
(I had to redo it), so I am not sure how well will scale. Getting
sources was slow, but updates are fast enough.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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> If everyone agrees (and especially, Tim Daly agrees) then I would
> delete the current SourceForge SVN /trunk and replace it with a
> copy of axiom--silver--1 that is automatically maintained in sync
> by running Tailor every night, like we currently do between
> SourceForge and Google and between the build-improvement branch
> and it's experimental Mercurial and Darcs mirrors.

If they are all the same then this would at least remove all the issues 
about the different SCMs.

I would actually like that the revision numbers of the Sourceforge and 
google repositories are identical, but maybe that is not so important.

> This would mean that when Tim commits changesets to axiom--silver--1,
> SourceForge SVN /trunk would automatically receive the same changes.
> It would be possible to check out from either axiom--silver--1 or
> SourceForge SVN /trunk and get the same source code.

Nice, could you then also update AxiomSources so that it becomes clear 
what is updated from where and at exactly which time. "Night" ist 
probably "daylight" in my place.

Ralf



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> > i've been unable to use SVN and could generate no interest in GIT.
> 
> It's interesting to me, but I'm somewhat dismayed by the multitude of
> systems we are going through.  I would have been happy to standardize
> on and learn Arch, but as it is no longer maintained that's not really
> a viable long term option.
> 
> If GIT works fast and suits our needs, I'd be glad to learn that.  More
> important to me is that we pick SOMETHING.  Automatically syncing to
> other repositories is fine for backup purposes, but I think it is a
> distraction to be spending so much time on tools rather than Axiom
> itself.
> 
> There are too many "live" trees.  I can understand different branches
> on an individual machine, but for online work of this nature I think
> scattering changes over half a dozen repositories is a Bad Idea.  Too
> much chance of a patch getting lost.  I uploaded some files that had
> been broken down into smaller chunks onto the wiki axiom--test--1
> branch (I think).  Did that ever get noticed or did it just get lost? 
> It's too easy to do work that doesn't get noticed by the "cricical core
> mass" of the project.  Maxima has one central repository where all
> changes wind up, and I think that has worked out fairly well.  Branches
> are generally made for releases only.
> 
> I'm less concerned with what tool we use, and more concerned that we
> just pick a tool and use it.  Ultimately everyone can generate tarballs
> and use tools to make and merge changesets into their own favorite
> local system - for the project, we need to focus more and avoid the
> endless tool parade.  I would have been fine with SVN, but the problems
> key developers are having with running it make it problematic.  If
> everybody likes GIT that's great - I'll be glad to install it - but
> let's pick something and go with it.


the procedure for changing axiom is well known.

do the work (as literate, well documented code), 
send me and the list a "diff -Naur goldfile newfile" for each change. 
follow up to make sure somebody saw it because email doesn't always work.




the gold branch is maintained as axiom--main--1 in arch.
the gold branch is mirrored at savannah in CVS.
the gold branch is mirrored at sourceforge in CVS.
the gold branch is released about every 2 months.

the silver branch is (now) maintained as axiom--silver--1 in arch.
the silver branch is updated as changes are accepted.

there are development branches maintained on sourceforge in SVN.
there are development branches maintained in arch.




Arch continues because it works.

CVS continues because it's the worldwide default tool.

SVN won't work for me so i have stopped trying to use it.
it should "just work" and it doesn't. Gaby likes it and it works
well for him so he uses it. Bill wrestled heroically with it.

darcs is easy but doesn't seem to scale and gets nonlinearly slower.

git works like magic, is blindingly fast, and uses very little
additional space. compared to git, the arch, cvs, darcs and svn
tools are slow and use much more space (207M vs 304M for axiom). 
however only one person responded to the experiment so that idea died.





"just pick a tool and use it" presumes controlling authority which
no one has, it presumes vision of the "right path" which is even 
less available, and it presumes that change and chaos are bad but
which is really the source of strength.

some days it's hard to keep up but the real value of open source
is the ability for everyone to "lead in your own direction". 
everyone has an opinion but working code always wins in the end.

chaos and complexity are necessary evils.

t





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> > 
> > >   tla get axiom--silver--1
> > ...
> > I hope it is not too hard for you to convince "tailor" to move
> > the patches from Tim to SourceForge.
> > ...
> 
> If everyone agrees (and especially, Tim Daly agrees) then I would
> delete the current SourceForge SVN /trunk and replace it with a
> copy of axiom--silver--1 that is automatically maintained in sync
> by running Tailor every night, like we currently do between
> SourceForge and Google and between the build-improvement branch
> and it's experimental Mercurial and Darcs mirrors. (Actually
> SourceForge->Google uses the SVN-specific 'svk smerge' command
> but the result is the same as Tailor between different repositories.)
> 
> This would mean that when Tim commits changesets to axiom--silver--1,
> SourceForge SVN /trunk would automatically receive the same changes.
> It would be possible to check out from either axiom--silver--1 or
> SourceForge SVN /trunk and get the same source code.

seems reasonable to me.

t



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> > So, I suspect we have to make a list of people for whom either SF or
> > Google SVN works and decide where we go from there.
> > 
> 
> For me SF SVN works. I did only tiny commits and one of them failed
> (I had to redo it), so I am not sure how well will scale. Getting
> sources was slow, but updates are fast enough.

well, in that sense, SVN "works" for me too. a full checkout involves
a checkout command followed by a minimum of 9 update commands to get
the missing files and a commit requires several tries. an average
checkout-change-commit cycle takes me approximately 2 hours, all
of which require my attention to succeed.

my notion of "works" leans more toward git's model. the whole
checkout-change-commit cycle works about as fast as a local
file system copy, it succeeds, and i don't have to babysit it.

source code control systems should be as reliable, simple, and as
fast as using a cash machine. SVN feels like trying to arrange
an international bank loan for $20. :-)

t





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Greetings!

"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

> Camm,
> 
> On October 24, 2006 11:56 AM you wrote:
> > > 
> > > Aha. No "__srget" symbol defined in the gcl image? Isn't it strange?
> > >  
> > 
> > Yes, in light of this and previous messages.  We need a gdb session
> > on raw_pre_gcl.  Please let me know if you would like me to walk
> > you through one, or whether you can provide me with remote ssh
> > access to the box or equivalent.
> 
> I am using the SourceForge compile farm machine 'ppc-osx3'. All
> registered SourceForge developers have access to these machines.
> You should have not problem to access it. Once you can log in,
> I can scp my working directories to your account.
> 

OK, will try to reactivate my sourceforge status.  Something changed
over the summer.  In the meantime, here is what needs doing:

./configure --enable-debug && make
cd unixport
make raw_pre_gcl
gdb raw_pre_gcl
(gdb) b sfasli.c:65
(gdb) r ./
(gdb) cond 1 strstr(q[u]->name,"srget")
(gdb) c
(gdb) p q[u]->name
(gdb) p q[u]->section->name
(gdb) p q[u]->flags


Thanks!

> > ... 
> > Come to think of it, there may be a problem like the following:
> > 
> > On Linux systems, libc symbols are postpended with a @@ and
> > version number.   Here is our code to deal with this (sfasli.c):
> > (my comments in ****)
> > 
> >   for (u=0;u<v;u++) {
> >     char *c=NULL;
> >     struct bfd_link_hash_entry *h;
> > 
> >     if (!*q[u]->name)
> >       continue;
> > 
> >     if (strncmp(q[u]->section->name,"*UND*",5) && 
> > !(q[u]->flags & BSF_WEAK))
> >       continue;
> > 
> > *** the above might skip ___srget ***
> > 
> >     if ((c=(char *)strstr(q[u]->name,"@@"))) {
> >       *c=0;
> >       if 
> > (!(h=bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_TRU
> > E,MY_BFD_TRUE,MY_BFD_TRUE)))
> > 	FEerror("Cannot make new hash entry",0);
> >       h->type=bfd_link_hash_new;
> >     } else if 
> >       
> > (!(h=bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FAL
> SE,MY_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_TRUE)) &&
> >        
> > !(h=bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_TRUE
> > ,MY_BFD_TRUE,MY_BFD_TRUE)))
> > 	FEerror("Cannot make new hash entry",0);
> > 
> > *** There might be some other mangling than the @ for ___srget ***
> > 
> >     if (h->type!=bfd_link_hash_defined) {
> >       if (!q[u]->section)
> > 	FEerror("Symbol ~S is missing 
> > section",1,make_simple_string(q[u]->name));
> >       if (!my_plt(q[u]->name,&pa)) {
> > /* 	 printf("my_plt %s %p\n",q[u]->name,(void *)pa);  */
> >  	if (q[u]->value && q[u]->value!=pa)
> >  	  FEerror("plt address mismatch", 0);
> >  	else
> >  	  q[u]->value=pa;
> >       }
> >       if (q[u]->value) {
> > 	h->type=bfd_link_hash_defined;
> > 	h->u.def.value=q[u]->value+q[u]->section->vma;
> > 	h->u.def.section=q[u]->section;
> >       }
> >     }
> > 
> >     if (c) {
> >       *c='@';
> >       c=NULL;
> >     }
> >   }
> > 
> > This might be instructive with srget in place of cos:
> > 
> > objdump -x /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl |grep cos
> > 0812f590 l     F .text	0000015b              number_cos
> > 00000000       F *UND*	00000026              cos@@GLIBC_2.0
> > 0804fb40       F *UND*	00000074              acosh@@GLIBC_2.0
> > 08050440       F *UND*	00000081              cosh@@GLIBC_2.0
> > 0812f6f0 g     F .text	00000047              Lcos
> > 00000000       F *UND*	00000026              cosf@@GLIBC_2.0
> > 08051200       F *UND*	00000075              acos@@GLIBC_2.0
> > 
> 
> There is no objdump on this OSX 10.2 system. :-(
> 
> Shall I try to install GNU binutils? The version bundled with GCL
> or a newer one?

The one in the GCL sources should be fine.

Take care,

> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| SVN won't work for me so i have stopped trying to use it.
| it should "just work" and it doesn't. Gaby likes it and it works
| well for him so he uses it. Bill wrestled heroically with it.

You did not look hard enough to see for whom else it is working.

I'm not in love with SVN; but from all the tools I've tried
(ClearCase, CVS, SVK, SVN, Arch, RCS,..) it (SVK/SVN) is the one that
lets me work.  As I said, Axiom is the first project where talented
people have hitted so many walls with SVN.

[...]

| some days it's hard to keep up but the real value of open source
| is the ability for everyone to "lead in your own direction". 

However, watch out that the bazar model does not lead you into a bizarre
project. 

-- Gaby



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > So, I suspect we have to make a list of people for whom either SF or
| > Google SVN works and decide where we go from there.
| > 
| 
| For me SF SVN works. I did only tiny commits and one of them failed
| (I had to redo it), so I am not sure how well will scale. Getting
| sources was slow, but updates are fast enough.

Getting sources has always been slower that update.

I use SVK over SVN -- but it does not really matter for the core
issues.

One of the reasons why I implemented out-of-source build as a
preliminary to anything is that I wanted to remove the necessity to
blow the tree after every build.  That implies that one only needs to
update (not checkout) which is quite fast.
Prior to out-of-source build support, I had to fake with lndir as I
documented on the wiki.

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > > So, I suspect we have to make a list of people for whom either SF or
| > > Google SVN works and decide where we go from there.
| > > 
| > 
| > For me SF SVN works. I did only tiny commits and one of them failed
| > (I had to redo it), so I am not sure how well will scale. Getting
| > sources was slow, but updates are fast enough.
| 
| well, in that sense, SVN "works" for me too. a full checkout involves
| a checkout command followed by a minimum of 9 update commands to get
| the missing files and a commit requires several tries.

I have a checkout a long time ago on my laptop -- and several on other
machines.  Update always take only one try, same for commit.  And I
believe I have been committing to Axiom repo very often.  I commit to
Axiom repo from three machines, they all "just work".

[...]

| source code control systems should be as reliable, simple, and as
| fast as using a cash machine. SVN feels like trying to arrange
| an international bank loan for $20. :-)

:-)

-- Gaby



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From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>
Organization: Texas A&M University, Department of Computer Science
Date: 25 Oct 2006 11:31:43 -0500
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Subject: [Axiom-developer] [build-improvements] Stop setting
	default-pathname-defaults
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Hi,

  As discussed earlier, this patch makes Axiom stop setting
*default-pathname-defaults* -- which led to surprising and incoherent
behaviour.   This variable, while Common Lisp standard, has an
implementation-defined meaning that, in fact, Axiom has no business in
changing directly.

Other changes I have in the pipeline depend on this.  I'll commit them
later (when I have time).

built and tested on an x86-suse-linux.
committed to build-improvements branch.

-- Gaby
2006-10-25  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>

	* bookvol5.pamphlet (\subsection{*default-pathname-defaults*}): Remove.
	(restart): Don't set *default-pathname-defaults*.
	(reroot): Likewise.
	* patches.lisp.pamphlet (|cd|): Likewise.
 
*** src/interp/bookvol5.pamphlet	(revision 15142)
--- src/interp/bookvol5.pamphlet	(local)
*************** November 10, 2003 ((iHy))
*** 134,140 ****
  \section{Star Global Variables}
  \begin{tabular}{lll}
  NAME                        & SET              & USE \\
- *default-pathname-defaults  & reroot           & restart \\
  *eof*                       & ncTopLevel       & \\
  *features*                  &                  & restart \\
  *package*                   &                  & restart \\
--- 134,139 ----
*************** NAME                        & SET       
*** 142,160 ****
  *standard-output*           &                  & ncIntLoop \\
  *top-level-hook*            & set-restart-hook & \\
  \end{tabular}
- \subsection{*default-pathname-defaults*}
- The [[*default-pathname-defaults*]] variable is set by
- [[make-absolute-filename]] called on the empty string. This has
- the effect of setting the value to the [[AXIOM]] variable as this
- function just concatenates the [[AXIOM]] variable onto the given string.
- We pass this string to the common lisp [[pathname]] function to set it
- to a real pathname.
- 
- The [[*default-pathname-defaults*]] defaults common lisp variable is
- set in [[restart]] to the current directory in most cases. If we are
- working in Lucid Common Lisp ([[:lucid]]) on an IBM/370 mainframe
- ([[:ibm/370]]) then it is set to the empty string. Using Lucid on a 
- mainframe seems to use the variable [[vmlisp::$current-directory]].
  
  \subsection{*eof*}
  The [[*eof*]] variable is set to [[NIL]] in [[ncTopLevel]].
--- 141,146 ----
*************** When running in Lucid Common Lisp ([[:lu
*** 296,301 ****
--- 282,292 ----
  Otherwise this variable is
  set to the empty string in [[restart]]. 
  
+ Notice that the variable [[*default-pathname-defaults*]] is a Common
+ Lisp standard variable with implementation defined meaning.
+ Typically, its value is an object that represents the directory from
+ where the Lisp image has been started.
+ 
  The [[reroot]] function sets this variable to the value of
  [[$spadroot]] which itself has the value of the argument to the
  [[reroot]] function. Since the argument to the [[reroot]] function is
*************** We do not care that tail recursion occur
*** 718,729 ****
    (setq |$InteractiveFrame| (|makeInitialModemapFrame|))
    (setq |$printLoadMsgs| t)
  #+(and :lucid :ibm/370)
-   (setq *default-pathname-defaults* "")
- #+:CCL
-   (setq *default-pathname-defaults* (get-current-directory))
- #-(or :CCL (and :lucid :ibm/370))
-   (setq *default-pathname-defaults* (probe-file "./"))
- #+(and :lucid :ibm/370)
    (setq vmlisp::$current-directory "")
  #-(and :lucid :ibm/370)
    (setq vmlisp::$current-directory
--- 709,714 ----
*************** where the [[${SYS}]] variable is the sam
*** 1160,1167 ****
    (setq |$defaultMsgDatabaseName|
  	(pathname (make-absolute-filename "/share/msgs/s2-us.msgs")))
    (setq |$msgDatabaseName| ())
-   (setq *default-pathname-defaults*
- 	(pathname (make-absolute-filename "")))
    (setq $current-directory $spadroot))
  
  @
--- 1145,1150 ----
*** src/interp/patches.lisp.pamphlet	(revision 15142)
--- src/interp/patches.lisp.pamphlet	(local)
*************** previous definition.
*** 122,131 ****
          ((eql (|directoryp| (interp-make-directory (car args))) 1)
           (setq $current-directory (namestring (truename (interp-make-directory (car args)))))))
  #+(or :kcl :ibcl :CCL) (system:CHDIR $current-directory)
- #+(and :lucid :ibm/370)
-   (setq *default-pathname-defaults* "")
- #-(and :lucid :ibm/370)
-   (setq *default-pathname-defaults* (pathname $current-directory))
    (|sayKeyedMsg| 'S2IZ0070 (list (namestring $current-directory))))
  
  <<toplevel>>
--- 122,127 ----



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and constructors
In-Reply-To: <m3fydd882g.fsf@zeus.integrable-solutions.net>
To: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:03:23 +0200 (CEST)
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From: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | As few people noticed hypertex searches for constructors where
> | giving no result, for example clicking on "NAG link" and then
> | on "Browser pages for individual routines" gives:
> | 
> | There is no constructor matching pattern  "Nag*"
> | 
> | AFAICS it is due to fake 'libdb.text' which is copied from
> | 'src/algebra' into target algebra directory. If one instead
> | uses freshly build 'libdb.text' then hypertex is able to
> | find Nag routines. BTW I also copied freshly build 'comdb.text'
> | to the target algebra directory, since apparently 'libdb.text'
> | contains references to 'comdb.text' but I am not sure is
> | 'comdb.text' is actually used (I was able to find Nag routines
> | both with and without 'comdb.text').
> 
> Kudos for your detective work.
> 
> >From my perspective, in the majority of cases it is WRONG for Axiom to
> ever cache things and copy them directly to installation.  We should
> be installing info about things we have built, not things that were
> built somewhere else and cached.  
> 
> Erring on the conservative side, I would be glad to review a patch that
> copy both libdb.text and comdb.text freshly built.  The cached files
> should go away.
> 

The following patch builds with build-improvements, and allows browsing
constructors.  The 'src/share/doc/hypertex/pages/util.ht' hunk is so that
I could test the patch (that is start the browser). The
'src/hyper/htinp.pamphlet' hunk adjusts paths in generated pages.

With the patch it is possible to remove 'src/algebra/libdb.text'. 
Even without the patch it is possible to remove 'src/share/algebra/libdb.text'
and 'src/share/algebra/comdb.text' (both are unused).


diff -ru build-improvements.bb/src/algebra/Makefile.in build-improvements.n2/src/algebra/Makefile.in
--- build-improvements.bb/src/algebra/Makefile.in	2006-10-25 14:10:18.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.n2/src/algebra/Makefile.in	2006-10-25 15:56:16.000000000 +0200
@@ -753,7 +753,7 @@
 
 all: all-ax
 
-all-ax: $(OUTSRC) $(MID) src ${OUT}/libdb.text ${TESTS}
+all-ax: $(OUTSRC) $(MID) src ${TESTS}
 	@ echo 4302 finished $(builddir)
 	-rm -f stamp
 	$(STAMP) stamp
@@ -845,10 +845,6 @@
 ${INPUT}/VIEW2D.input: $(srcdir)/view2D.spad.pamphlet
 	$(axiom_build_document) --tangle='TEST VIEW2D' --output=$@ $<
 
-${OUT}/libdb.text: $(srcdir)/libdb.text
-	@ echo 4300a copying $< to $@
-	$(INSTALL_DATA) $< $@
-
 
 ${DOC}/diagrams.tex: ${SRC}/doc/diagrams.tex
 	@ echo 4300b making ${DOC}/diagrams from ${SRC}/doc/diagrams.tex
diff -ru build-improvements.bb/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet build-improvements.n2/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet
--- build-improvements.bb/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-25 14:10:18.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.n2/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-25 15:56:16.000000000 +0200
@@ -1698,12 +1698,6 @@
 <<genericDOCfiles>>
 
 @
-<<libdb.text (OUT from IN)>>=
-${OUT}/libdb.text: $(srcdir)/libdb.text
-	@ echo 4300a copying $< to $@
-	$(INSTALL_DATA) $< $@
-
-@
 <<diagrams.tex (OUT from IN)>>=
 
 ${DOC}/diagrams.tex: ${SRC}/doc/diagrams.tex
@@ -2041,7 +2035,7 @@
 
 all: all-ax
 
-all-ax: $(OUTSRC) $(MID) src ${OUT}/libdb.text ${TESTS}
+all-ax: $(OUTSRC) $(MID) src ${TESTS}
 	@ echo 4302 finished $(builddir)
 	-rm -f stamp
 	$(STAMP) stamp
@@ -2063,7 +2057,6 @@
 <<genericRules>>
 
 <<testrules>>
-<<libdb.text (OUT from IN)>>
 <<diagrams.tex (OUT from IN)>>
 <<stages>>
 
diff -ru build-improvements.bb/src/etc/Makefile.in build-improvements.n2/src/etc/Makefile.in
--- build-improvements.bb/src/etc/Makefile.in	2006-10-25 14:10:22.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.n2/src/etc/Makefile.in	2006-10-25 15:56:23.000000000 +0200
@@ -27,6 +27,8 @@
 	@ (cd ${INT}/algebra ; \
            echo ')lisp (make-databases "" nil)' | ${INTERPSYS} )
 	@ $(INSTALL_DATA) ${INT}/algebra/*.daase $(axiom_targetdir)/algebra
+	@ $(INSTALL_DATA) ${INT}/algebra/libdb.text $(axiom_targetdir)/algebra
+	@ $(INSTALL_DATA) ${INT}/algebra/comdb.text $(axiom_targetdir)/algebra
 
 $(axiom_target_bindir)/asq: ${MID}/asq.c
 	@echo 4 making $(axiom_target_bindir)/asq from ${MID}/asq.c
diff -ru build-improvements.bb/src/etc/Makefile.pamphlet build-improvements.n2/src/etc/Makefile.pamphlet
--- build-improvements.bb/src/etc/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-25 14:10:22.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.n2/src/etc/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-25 15:56:23.000000000 +0200
@@ -35,6 +35,8 @@
 	@ (cd ${INT}/algebra ; \
            echo ')lisp (make-databases "" nil)' | ${INTERPSYS} )
 	@ $(INSTALL_DATA) ${INT}/algebra/*.daase $(axiom_targetdir)/algebra
+	@ $(INSTALL_DATA) ${INT}/algebra/libdb.text $(axiom_targetdir)/algebra
+	@ $(INSTALL_DATA) ${INT}/algebra/comdb.text $(axiom_targetdir)/algebra
 
 @
 \section{summary}
diff -ru build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/htinp.pamphlet build-improvements.n2/src/hyper/htinp.pamphlet
--- build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/htinp.pamphlet	2006-10-25 14:10:16.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.n2/src/hyper/htinp.pamphlet	2006-10-25 15:56:15.000000000 +0200
@@ -545,7 +545,7 @@
     fprintf(pfile, "\\tab{5}\\spadgraph{");
     print_paste_line(pfile, command);
     fprintf(pfile, "}\n");
-    fprintf(pfile, "\\center{\\unixcommand{\\inputimage{\\env{AXIOM}/doc/viewports/%s%d.VIEW/image}}{viewAlone\\space{1} \\env{AXIOM}/doc/viewports/%s%d}}\n", pagename, example_number, pagename, example_number);
+    fprintf(pfile, "\\center{\\unixcommand{\\inputimage{\\env{AXIOM}/share/viewports/%s%d.VIEW/image}}{viewAlone\\space{1} \\env{AXIOM}/share/viewports/%s%d}}\n", pagename, example_number, pagename, example_number);
     get_graph_output(realcom, pagename, com_type);
     fprintf(pfile, "\\end{paste}\\end{patch}\n\n");
 
Tylko w build-improvements.bb/src/share/algebra: comdb.text
Tylko w build-improvements.bb/src/share/algebra: libdb.text
diff -ru build-improvements.bb/src/share/doc/hypertex/pages/util.ht build-improvements.n2/src/share/doc/hypertex/pages/util.ht
--- build-improvements.bb/src/share/doc/hypertex/pages/util.ht	2006-10-25 14:10:21.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements.n2/src/share/doc/hypertex/pages/util.ht	2006-10-25 15:56:19.000000000 +0200
@@ -135,7 +135,7 @@
 % 5. Bitmaps and bitmap manipulation macros.
 % ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 
-\newcommand{\htbmdir}{\env{AXIOM}/../../share/doc/hypertex/bitmaps}
+\newcommand{\htbmdir}{\env{AXIOM}/share/hypertex/bitmaps}
 \newcommand{\htbmfile}[1]{\htbmdir /#1.bitmap}
 \newcommand{\htbitmap}[1]{\inputbitmap{\htbmfile{#1}}}
 \newcommand{\ControlBitmap}[1]{\controlbitmap{\htbmfile{#1}}}
@@ -153,7 +153,7 @@
 
 % Including control panel pixmaps for help pages:
 
-\newcommand{\helpbit}[1]{\centerline{\inputpixmap{\env{AXIOM}/../../share/doc/hypertex/pixmaps/{#1}}}}
+\newcommand{\helpbit}[1]{\centerline{\inputpixmap{\env{AXIOM}/share/hypertex/pixmaps/{#1}}}}
 
 % ----------------------------------------------------------------------
 % 6. HyperDoc button objects.
@@ -194,19 +194,19 @@
 % Including viewport bitmaps within \HyperName pages:
 
 \newcommand{\viewport}[1]{\inputimage{{#1}.VIEW/image}}
-\newcommand{\axiomViewport}[1]{\inputimage{\env{AXIOM}/../../share/doc/viewports/{#1}.VIEW/image}}
+\newcommand{\axiomViewport}[1]{\inputimage{\env{AXIOM}/share/viewports/{#1}.VIEW/image}}
 \newcommand{\spadviewport}[1]{\axiomViewport{#1}}
 
 % Creating a real live viewport:
 
 \newcommand{\viewportbutton}[2]{\unixcommand{#1}{viewAlone #2}}
-\newcommand{\axiomViewportbutton}[2]{\unixcommand{#1}{viewAlone \$AXIOM/../../share/doc/viewports/{#2}}}
+\newcommand{\axiomViewportbutton}[2]{\unixcommand{#1}{viewAlone \$AXIOM/share/viewports/{#2}}}
 \newcommand{\spadviewportbutton}[2]{\axiomViewportbutton{#1}{#2}}
 
 % Making active viewport buttons:
 
 \newcommand{\viewportasbutton}[1]{\unixcommand{\inputimage{{#1}.VIEW/image}}{viewAlone {#1}}}
-\newcommand{\axiomViewportasbutton}[1]{\unixcommand{\inputimage{\env{AXIOM}/../../share/doc/viewports/{#1}.VIEW/image}}{viewAlone \$AXIOM/../../share/doc/viewports/{#1}}}
+\newcommand{\axiomViewportasbutton}[1]{\unixcommand{\inputimage{\env{AXIOM}/share/viewports/{#1}.VIEW/image}}{viewAlone \$AXIOM/share/viewports/{#1}}}
 \newcommand{\spadviewportasbutton}[1]{\axiomViewportasbutton{#1}}
 
 % ----------------------------------------------------------------------


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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	Hebisch on Wed, 25 Oct 2006 19:03:23 +0200 (CEST))
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and constructors
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Waldek, Gaby,

I understand your enthusiasm for changing things but you do realize
that you're going to make it very difficult to merge your changes.
You started out "fixing make" and, as you learn more, you're starting
to change files. However, you're not packaging these changes into
changesets in any way. 

The ideal case would be that you use build-improvements for the
great makefile rewrite and send other changes as specific patches
to be included in the silver branch.

Try to decide if your change is independent and could be of value
without the new makefile system. If so, please try to package up
changesets against gold and post them to the list for silver inclusion.

t



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To: daly@axiom-developer.org
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and constructors
References: <E1Gcm9z-0007Xk-00@hera.math.uni.wroc.pl>
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From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| Waldek, Gaby,
| 
| I understand your enthusiasm for changing things but you do realize
| that you're going to make it very difficult to merge your changes.
| You started out "fixing make" and, as you learn more, you're starting
| to change files. However, you're not packaging these changes into
| changesets in any way. 

I did not start out "fixing make" :-)  
I start out "improving the build machinery" that drives Axiom Gold and
Silver. 

There are lot of issues discovered along the way.  Many of them are of
independent value, but since they are discovered while working on the
build improvements branch, we can barely blame people for fixing things
they are working on :-)

Of course, this patch of Waldek can (and should) be applied to silver,
in addition of the build-improvements (where the core of the work is
happening as part of the experiment).

| The ideal case would be that you use build-improvements for the
| great makefile rewrite and send other changes as specific patches
| to be included in the silver branch.
| 
| Try to decide if your change is independent and could be of value
| without the new makefile system. If so, please try to package up
| changesets against gold and post them to the list for silver inclusion.

Sure.

-- Gaby



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To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and constructors
References: <E1Gcm9z-0007Xk-00@hera.math.uni.wroc.pl>
From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > 
| > | As few people noticed hypertex searches for constructors where
| > | giving no result, for example clicking on "NAG link" and then
| > | on "Browser pages for individual routines" gives:
| > | 
| > | There is no constructor matching pattern  "Nag*"
| > | 
| > | AFAICS it is due to fake 'libdb.text' which is copied from
| > | 'src/algebra' into target algebra directory. If one instead
| > | uses freshly build 'libdb.text' then hypertex is able to
| > | find Nag routines. BTW I also copied freshly build 'comdb.text'
| > | to the target algebra directory, since apparently 'libdb.text'
| > | contains references to 'comdb.text' but I am not sure is
| > | 'comdb.text' is actually used (I was able to find Nag routines
| > | both with and without 'comdb.text').
| > 
| > Kudos for your detective work.
| > 
| > >From my perspective, in the majority of cases it is WRONG for Axiom to
| > ever cache things and copy them directly to installation.  We should
| > be installing info about things we have built, not things that were
| > built somewhere else and cached.  
| > 
| > Erring on the conservative side, I would be glad to review a patch that
| > copy both libdb.text and comdb.text freshly built.  The cached files
| > should go away.
| > 
| 
| The following patch builds with build-improvements, and allows browsing
| constructors.  The 'src/share/doc/hypertex/pages/util.ht' hunk is so that
| I could test the patch (that is start the browser). The
| 'src/hyper/htinp.pamphlet' hunk adjusts paths in generated pages.
| 
| With the patch it is possible to remove 'src/algebra/libdb.text'. 
| Even without the patch it is possible to remove 'src/share/algebra/libdb.text'
| and 'src/share/algebra/comdb.text' (both are unused).

This looks fine to me.  Could say on which platform you built and
tested this change?  Please add appropriate ChangeLog entry.  This
change should go to silver too; please send a corresponding patch
for review (I appreciate some path changes on build-improvements are
not reflected yet on silver).

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and constructors
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

[...]

|  @
| -<<libdb.text (OUT from IN)>>=
| -${OUT}/libdb.text: $(srcdir)/libdb.text
| -	@ echo 4300a copying $< to $@
| -	$(INSTALL_DATA) $< $@
| -
| -@

Given this, the file libdb.text should also be removed from the repo.

-- Gaby



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] GIT
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Gaby,

Since Tim has agreed to what I proposed below and no one
else has disagreed, I would like to plan for this but I
would appreciate your opinion first on how best to do it
without screwing up the SVN repository to badly. Specfically
what we would be trying to do is to replace the existing
/trunk on SourceForge with one derived via Tailor from Tim's
new axiom--silver--1 repository. And to set up a cronjob on
axiom-developer.org to automatically update it each night.

One way to do this would be to first of all delete /trunk
from the repository and rebuild it from the current contents
of axiom--silver--1, but given the little I understand about
how SVN works, I am concerned that using svnadmin to delete
/trunk might have serious consequences for any branch cloned
from /trunk (such as build-improvements). Am I wrong about
that? Is deleteing and re-creating /trunk a safe and sensible
thing to do?

I suppose a safer (but more complex) thing to do would be
to try to compute a changeset that would modify /trunk in
just the right way to make it's current state (but not it's
history!) the same as axiom--silver--1. I could probably do
that by creating a completely separate /trunk2 and then
appropriately diff /trunk and /trunk2 - though I will have
to learn a little more about SVN to do this properly, I
think.

Anyway, your help and suggestions would be appreciated. And
of course anyone else who has some experience with SVN.

Regards,
Bill Page.


On Wednesday, October 25, 2006 10:24 AM Tim Daly wrote:
>=20
> > >=20
> > > >   tla get axiom--silver--1
> > > ...
> > > I hope it is not too hard for you to convince "tailor" to move
> > > the patches from Tim to SourceForge.
> > > ...
> >=20
> Bill Page wrote:
> > If everyone agrees (and especially, Tim Daly agrees) then I would
> > delete the current SourceForge SVN /trunk and replace it with a
> > copy of axiom--silver--1 that is automatically maintained in sync
> > by running Tailor every night, like we currently do between
> > SourceForge and Google and between the build-improvement branch
> > and it's experimental Mercurial and Darcs mirrors. (Actually
> > SourceForge->Google uses the SVN-specific 'svk smerge' command
> > but the result is the same as Tailor between different=20
> repositories.)
> >=20
> > This would mean that when Tim commits changesets to=20
> > axiom--silver--1, SourceForge SVN /trunk would automatically
> > receive the same changes. It would be possible to check out from
> > either axiom--silver--1 or SourceForge SVN /trunk and get the
> > same source code.
>=20
> seems reasonable to me.
>=20
> t
>=20



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Alfredo,

You are right. I guess I will have to talk to him anyway since
if we do this on SourceForge, we would still have the problem of
updating Google the same say. I am quite sure that my current
method of updating Google would not work properly if I were to
try to delete SourceForge /trunk and re-create it. Hmmm...
another argument in favour of doing this via a changeset approach,
I guess. Maybe it is not so important that the history according
tla axiom--silver--1 be *exactly* the same as the history of
/trunk on SourceForge and Google.

Regards,
Bill Page.=20

On Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:06 PM Alfredo Portes wrote:
>=20
> Hi Bill,
>=20
> > Since Tim has agreed to what I proposed below and no one
> > else has disagreed, I would like to plan for this but I
> > would appreciate your opinion first on how best to do it
> > without screwing up the SVN repository to badly. Specfically
> > what we would be trying to do is to replace the existing
> > /trunk on SourceForge with one derived via Tailor from Tim's
> > new axiom--silver--1 repository. And to set up a cronjob on
> > axiom-developer.org to automatically update it each night.
>=20
> I think you should also ask Ben from Google... maybe he can
> say if this is safe.
>=20
> Regards,
>=20
> Alfredo
>=20



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] GIT
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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

| Gaby,
| 
| Since Tim has agreed to what I proposed below and no one
| else has disagreed, I would like to plan for this but I
| would appreciate your opinion first on how best to do it
| without screwing up the SVN repository to badly. Specfically
| what we would be trying to do is to replace the existing
| /trunk on SourceForge with one derived via Tailor from Tim's
| new axiom--silver--1 repository. And to set up a cronjob on
| axiom-developer.org to automatically update it each night.

I whole-heartily welcome Tim's agreement.

| One way to do this would be to first of all delete /trunk
| from the repository and rebuild it from the current contents
| of axiom--silver--1, but given the little I understand about
| how SVN works, I am concerned that using svnadmin to delete
| /trunk might have serious consequences for any branch cloned
| from /trunk (such as build-improvements). Am I wrong about
| that?

I don't know all the gory details of SVN implementation, but my
understanding is since SVN works by changeset, any change you make to
the repository is recorded as a global change with a given revision
number (even those branches that are not directly affected see the
change in the revision number).  Consequently, if you "delete" trunk
-- but not the metadata -- and replace it with a new copy, then
technically SVN would record all those changes, and the diff between
the branches should be able to compute correctly the change set.  This
assumes the "delete-and-replace" operation is trouble-free. 

This is obvious, but please make a backup of the repo before you start :-)

Please run my theory my "the SVN guy at Google" :-)

| Is deleteing and re-creating /trunk a safe and sensible
| thing to do?

It certainly is a "direct" way to approach the issue.  If my theory
above is correct, we should be fine.  I call it "theory" because I
have not done this typeo of manip with CVN before.

| I suppose a safer (but more complex) thing to do would be
| to try to compute a changeset that would modify /trunk in
| just the right way to make it's current state (but not it's
| history!) the same as axiom--silver--1. I could probably do
| that by creating a completely separate /trunk2 and then
| appropriately diff /trunk and /trunk2 - though I will have
| to learn a little more about SVN to do this properly, I
| think.

yes, that is another way; one that requires patience :-)

-- Gaby



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Bill,

fire up emacs, start a shell, do a 
  diff -r --brief axiom--silver--1 sourceforge | grep -v svn | grep -v arch
and you can see which files need to be copied.

t



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> | One way to do this would be to first of all delete /trunk
> | from the repository and rebuild it from the current contents
> | of axiom--silver--1, but given the little I understand about
> | how SVN works, I am concerned that using svnadmin to delete
> | /trunk might have serious consequences for any branch cloned
> | from /trunk (such as build-improvements). Am I wrong about
> | that?

Doing a delete via svnadmin... I don't think that's the right way.

> I don't know all the gory details of SVN implementation, but my
> understanding is since SVN works by changeset, any change you make to
> the repository is recorded as a global change with a given revision
> number (even those branches that are not directly affected see the
> change in the revision number).  Consequently, if you "delete" trunk
> -- but not the metadata -- and replace it with a new copy, then
> technically SVN would record all those changes, and the diff between
> the branches should be able to compute correctly the change set.  This
> assumes the "delete-and-replace" operation is trouble-free. 
> 
> This is obvious, but please make a backup of the repo before you start :-)

One problem with 'svn delete' applied to the trunk and then recreation 
from new files is that you basically double the size of the repository 
since all files from axiom--silver--1 will be considered as new files. 
And that gives a huge changeset.

Cannot you setup a local svk depot, import axiom--silver--1 to it. 
Additionally mirror also the sourceforge trunk in that depot, compute 
the changeset and apply it to this mirror (which would automatically be 
committed to Sourceforge).

Just my meta thoughts. I don't know yet how exactly the commands would 
have to be, but I somehow feel that should be the easiest way with a 
minimal changeset.

Ralf



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] GIT
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On Wednesday, October 25, 2006 4:46 PM Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
>=20
> Doing a delete via svnadmin... I don't think that's the right way.
>

I am also worried about this.
=20
> ...=20
> One problem with 'svn delete' applied to the trunk and then=20
> recreation from new files is that you basically double the size
> of the repository since all files from axiom--silver--1 will be
> considered as new files. And that gives a huge changeset.

I would not plan on doing 'svn delete' which would just record
a delete transaction but not actually delete anything - but rather
using svnadmin (not svn) I would completely remove /trunk from
the repository. That would remove all history (metadata?) as well
as the source files.

I would not try to recreate /trunk from the files alone but
rather using Tailor, I can recreate the actual revision history
as well as the contents of axiom--silver--1 as an SVN repository
with the same changeset history and associated metadata.

>=20
> Cannot you setup a local svk depot, import axiom--silver--1
> to it.

That would not keep any history from the tla archive.

> Additionally mirror also the sourceforge trunk in that depot,
> compute the changeset and apply it to this mirror (which
> would automatically be committed to Sourceforge).

That is sort of what I had in mind, but the result would be
that the history of the svn /trunk respository would be
different than the history of the tla axiom--silver--1 archive.
Maybe that's not so important.

>=20
> Just my meta thoughts. I don't know yet how exactly the=20
> commands would have to be, but I somehow feel that should be
> the easiest way with a minimal changeset.
>=20

Yes, SVK seems to do this kind of thing quite well.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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> One way to do this would be to first of all delete /trunk
> from the repository and rebuild it from the current contents
> of axiom--silver--1, but given the little I understand about
> how SVN works, I am concerned that using svnadmin to delete
> /trunk might have serious consequences for any branch cloned
> from /trunk (such as build-improvements). Am I wrong about
> that? Is deleteing and re-creating /trunk a safe and sensible
> thing to do?

I am not sure if it is safe, but I wonder if it has any advantages
(like preserving history) compared to other options.
 
> I suppose a safer (but more complex) thing to do would be
> to try to compute a changeset that would modify /trunk in
> just the right way to make it's current state (but not it's
> history!) the same as axiom--silver--1. I could probably do
> that by creating a completely separate /trunk2 and then
> appropriately diff /trunk and /trunk2 - though I will have
> to learn a little more about SVN to do this properly, I
> think.
> 

AFAIUT if you throw out history that is easy (probably the easiest
way): run locally diff on two directory trees (use '--exclude'
option to exlude metadata) than apply resulting patch and commit

Slightly better way (but much more laboriuos) would be to split Tim's
changes into separate patches and apply and commit them separately.

Anather thing are changes in current silver, but not in Tim's 
version -- I guess we just need to redo them.


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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First, I think we can agree that axiom--silver--1 is the master copy.
(I haven't yet looked at it but it probably contains all the history 
since Tim started.)

So in fact the history in the sourceforge or google mirror of silver are 
not too important.

But anyway, if they the log data should be kept then it's a bit more 
complicated.

I think we started at SF with --patch-49. From that build-improvements 
branched away. So why not do the following?

1) backup of the whole SF repository (so that the current status could 
be reset)
2) Remove *everything* on SF
3) Create a new trunk from axiom--silver--1--patch-49
4) Re-apply every change to SF that had been done in the past up to the 
time when build-improvements branched away.
5) Re-apply every patch to the build-improvements branch
6) Apply patches from axiom--silver--1 to bring SF/trunk up-to-date.
(Does anybody care for anything else then trunk and 
branches/build-improvements at SF?)

In this way no history would be lost. Just that there might be some 
conflicts since some patches have been applied to SF/trunk since its 
creation which are also applied to axiom--silver--1.

It seems not so straightforward if the history must be kept.

Ralf



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and constructors
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> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> [...]
> 
> |  @
> | -<<libdb.text (OUT from IN)>>=
> | -${OUT}/libdb.text: $(srcdir)/libdb.text
> | -	@ echo 4300a copying $< to $@
> | -	$(INSTALL_DATA) $< $@
> | -
> | -@
> 
> Given this, the file libdb.text should also be removed from the repo.
> 

there are two 'libdb.text' in the repo: 'src/algebra/libdb.text' and
'src/share/algebra/libdb.text'. There is also 'src/share/algebra/comdb.text'.
AFAICS 'src/share/algebra/libdb.text' and 'src/share/algebra/comdb.text'
are unused (both in build-improvements and in silver). 

I think that all three files should be removed from the repo. 

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] GIT
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 18:02:32 -0400
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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
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On Wednesday, October 25, 2006 5:08 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:

Bill Page wrote:
> > ... Is deleteing and re-creating /trunk a safe and sensible
> > thing to do?
>=20
> I am not sure if it is safe, but I wonder if it has any
> advantages (like preserving history) compared to other options.
>

My plan was to delete the existing SVN /trunk and re-create it
using the exact history of Tim's tla branch axiom--silver--1.

>=20
> AFAIUT if you throw out history that is easy (probably the
> easiest way): run locally diff on two directory trees (use
> '--exclude' option to exclude metadata) than apply resulting
> patch and commit
>

Yes.
=20
> Slightly better way (but much more laboriuos) would be to split
> Tim's changes into separate patches and apply and commit them
> separately.

That is exactly what the Tailor program does automatically - no
extra labour involved. That is how Tailor manages to transfer the
history from one kind of repository to another.

>=20
> Another thing are changes in current silver, but not in Tim's=20
> version -- I guess we just need to redo them.
>=20

Well, the procedure that we agreed on (I think) was the Tim
would be solely responsible for committing changes to Silver
(axiom--silver-1 =3D=3D SVN /trunk). Tim's preferred way to do this
is entirely a manual process - send him patches and copy the
axiom-developer list. Personally I think Tim's decision to do
this a bit misguided in this day and age, but that is another
topic that we discussed many months ago... "old dogs, new tricks",
etc., no need to go into that again. :-)

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] GIT
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Bill Page wrote:
> Well, the procedure that we agreed on (I think) was the Tim
> would be solely responsible for committing changes to Silver
> (axiom--silver-1 == SVN /trunk). Tim's preferred way to do this
> is entirely a manual process - send him patches and copy the
> axiom-developer list. Personally I think Tim's decision to do
> this a bit misguided in this day and age, but that is another
> topic that we discussed many months ago... "old dogs, new tricks",
> etc., no need to go into that again. :-)
> 

My understanding was different: that Tim agreed to "publish" his
changes and make them available in silver, but the idea was to
have also extra patches from other people. IIRC Gaby agreed to
maintain silver, to ensure that extra patches do not impose
extra load on Tim. 

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and constructors
References: <E1Gcqfl-0002Dz-00@hera.math.uni.wroc.pl>
From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > 
| > [...]
| > 
| > |  @
| > | -<<libdb.text (OUT from IN)>>=
| > | -${OUT}/libdb.text: $(srcdir)/libdb.text
| > | -	@ echo 4300a copying $< to $@
| > | -	$(INSTALL_DATA) $< $@
| > | -
| > | -@
| > 
| > Given this, the file libdb.text should also be removed from the repo.
| > 
| 
| there are two 'libdb.text' in the repo: 'src/algebra/libdb.text' and
| 'src/share/algebra/libdb.text'. There is also 'src/share/algebra/comdb.text'.
| AFAICS 'src/share/algebra/libdb.text' and 'src/share/algebra/comdb.text'
| are unused (both in build-improvements and in silver). 

Tim, do ou know why there are two such things?

| I think that all three files should be removed from the repo. 

I'm inclined to think so; input from Tim is much appreciated.

-- Gaby



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Greetings!  OK, should be optional now.  Please let me know if not.

Take care,

Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

> Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com> writes:
> 
> | Greetings, and thanks!
> | 
> | Should we make makeinfo a build dependency of GCL?  We cannot generate
> | any documentation without it.  I.e. we can
> | 
> | 1) silently skip documentation when makeinfo is absent
> | 
> | or 
> | 
> | 2) bomb if it is not found in configure.
> 
> My preference would be for (1).
> The reason is that there are packages, e.g. Axiom, that are only
> interested in the GCL image not the documentation.  They should be
> given a chance to build and use the image.
> 
> -- Gaby
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] GIT
Date: Wed, 25 Oct 2006 18:45:22 -0400
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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
To: "Waldek Hebisch" <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
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Onednesday, October 25, 2006 6:21 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
>=20
> Bill Page wrote:
> > Well, the procedure that we agreed on (I think) was the Tim
> > would be solely responsible for committing changes to Silver
> > (axiom--silver-1 =3D=3D SVN /trunk). Tim's preferred way to do this
> > is entirely a manual process - send him patches and copy the
> > axiom-developer list. Personally I think Tim's decision to do
> > this a bit misguided in this day and age, but that is another
> > topic that we discussed many months ago... "old dogs, new tricks",
> > etc., no need to go into that again. :-)
> >=20
>=20
> My understanding was different: that Tim agreed to "publish" his
> changes and make them available in silver, but the idea was to
> have also extra patches from other people. IIRC Gaby agreed to
> maintain silver, to ensure that extra patches do not impose
> extra load on Tim.=20
>=20

I think we have to be *really* clear about this. Is this orkflow
what you mean?

                                  Gaby
                                    |
                                    |
                                   \|/
    tla                  Tailor               svn
Tim ---> axiom--silver--1 ---> SF SVN /trunk <--- other people
                                 (silver)
                                    |
                                    | ???
                                   \|/

                                  Gold

But I am not sure how to implement the ??? process. I thought that
Tim was still responsible to create Axiom Gold.  Maybe we can use
svn to create diffs which are sent to Tim for his processing.

So the workflow would be like this:

                                  Gaby
                                    |
                                    |
                                   \|/
    tla                  Tailor               svn
Tim ---> axiom--silver--1 ---> SF SVN /trunk <--- other people
                                 (silver)
               |                    |
               |                    | diffs
               |                   \|/
               |                       tla
                -----------------> Tim --->  axiom--main-1 (Gold)

Is that correct?

I hope my ASCII art is readable.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and constructors
In-Reply-To: <m3ods05j6n.fsf@zeus.integrable-solutions.net>
To: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 00:54:25 +0200 (CEST)
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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> This looks fine to me.  Could say on which platform you built and
> tested this change?  Please add appropriate ChangeLog entry.  This
> change should go to silver too; please send a corresponding patch
> for review (I appreciate some path changes on build-improvements are
> not reflected yet on silver).

I tested build-improvements on x86-64 Debian testing, using bundled
noweb and gcl.  Now, I also tested silver on 32-bit Debian sarge
(x86-64 Debian testing is still working on silver).

root wrote:
> Try to decide if your change is independent and could be of value
> without the new makefile system. If so, please try to package up
> changesets against gold and post them to the list for silver inclusion.

The following applies to current (revision 198) SF silver. AFAIU you
changed directory layout in gold and adjusted 'util.ht'. I do not know
if you adjusted 'src/hyper/htinp.pamphlet' (which also contains paths to
viewports).

BTW. Did you consider removal of useless files from gold? ATM
'src/share/algebra/comdb.text' and 'src/share/algebra/libdb.text'
are useless. This patch turns 'src/algebra/libdb.text' into 
useless file (those three are just for start, I have more candiates
for removal).

--- /home/s/test/tt/axiom1/silver/axiom/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-07 16:07:19.000000000 +0200
+++ axiom/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-25 21:46:08.000000000 +0200
@@ -1699,12 +1699,6 @@
 	rm -f ${DOC}/axiom.sty.pamphlet )
  
 @
-<<libdb.text (OUT from IN)>>=
-${OUT}/libdb.text: ${IN}/libdb.text
-	@ echo 4300a copying ${IN}/libdb.text to ${OUT}/libdb.text
-	@ cp ${IN}/libdb.text ${OUT}/libdb.text
-
-@
 <<diagrams.tex (OUT from IN)>>=
 
 ${DOC}/diagrams.tex: ${SRC}/doc/diagrams.tex
@@ -2037,7 +2031,7 @@
 <<USERLAYER>>
 <<order>>
 
-all: src ${OUT}/libdb.text ${DOCFILES} ${TESTS}
+all: src ${DOCFILES} ${TESTS}
 	@ echo 4302 finished ${IN}
 
 #all:	${SUBPART}
@@ -2068,7 +2062,6 @@
 
 <<testrules>>
 <<axiom.sty (OUT from IN)>>
-<<libdb.text (OUT from IN)>>
 <<diagrams.tex (OUT from IN)>>
 <<stages>>
 
--- /home/s/test/tt/axiom1/silver/axiom/src/etc/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-07 14:27:23.000000000 +0200
+++ axiom/src/etc/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-25 21:44:56.000000000 +0200
@@ -34,6 +34,8 @@
 	@ (cd ${INT}/algebra ; \
            echo ')lisp (make-databases "" nil)' | ${INTERPSYS} )
 	@ cp ${INT}/algebra/*.daase ${MNT}/${SYS}/algebra
+	@ cp ${INT}/algebra/libdb.text ${MNT}/${SYS}/algebra
+	@ cp ${INT}/algebra/comdb.text ${MNT}/${SYS}/algebra
 
 @
 \section{summary}


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > This looks fine to me.  Could say on which platform you built and
| > tested this change?  Please add appropriate ChangeLog entry.  This
| > change should go to silver too; please send a corresponding patch
| > for review (I appreciate some path changes on build-improvements are
| > not reflected yet on silver).
| 
| I tested build-improvements on x86-64 Debian testing, using bundled
| noweb and gcl.  Now, I also tested silver on 32-bit Debian sarge
| (x86-64 Debian testing is still working on silver).

That is great!

-- Gaby



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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
To: "Camm Maguire" <camm@enhanced.com>
Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org, gcl-devel@gnu.org
Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Camm,=20

On Wednesday, October 25, 2006 11:10 AM you wrote:
> ...=20
> OK, will try to reactivate my sourceforge status.  Something
> changed over the summer.

Yes, there were some problems with access to the compile farm.
That seems to be fixed now.

> In the meantime, here is what needs doing:
>=20
> ./configure --enable-debug && make
> cd unixport
> make raw_pre_gcl
> gdb raw_pre_gcl
> (gdb) b sfasli.c:65
> (gdb) r ./
> (gdb) cond 1 strstr(q[u]->name,"srget")
> (gdb) c
> (gdb) p q[u]->name
> (gdb) p q[u]->section->name
> (gdb) p q[u]->flags
>=20
>=20
> Thanks!
>

Here you go:

---------

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ ./configure
--prefix=3D/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx --enable-locbfd
--disable-statsysbfd --enable-debug
...

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ make
...
makeinfo --html  gcl-si.texi
makeinfo --html  gcl-tk.texi

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ cd unixport

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport $ make raw_pre_gcl
ls: ../xgcl-2/*.o: No such file or directory
ls: ../mod/*.o: No such file or directory
ls: ../pcl/*.o: No such file or directory
ls: ../clcs/*.o: No such file or directory
ls: ../clcs/clcs_*.lisp: No such file or directory
touch raw_pre_gcl_map
gcc -no-cpp-precomp -o raw_pre_gcl  \
-L.    -lpre_gcl `echo -lm  | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'`  -lc -lgclp

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport $ gdb raw_pre_gcl
GNU gdb 5.3-20021014 (Apple version gdb-250) (Sat Dec  7 02:14:27 GMT
2002)
Copyright 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you
are
welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain
conditions.
Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for
details.
This GDB was configured as "powerpc-apple-macos10".
Reading symbols for shared libraries .. done
(gdb) b sfasli.c:65
Breakpoint 1 at 0xb1b54: file sfasli.c, line 65.
(gdb) r ./
Starting program:
/private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixpor
t/raw_pre_gcl ./
[Switching to process 27643 thread 0xb03]
Reading symbols for shared libraries . done
Reading symbols for shared libraries .. done
DBEGIN:          0x122000
mach_mapstart:   0x548000
heap_end:        0x548000
core_end:        0x548000
mach_brkpt:      0x548000
mach_maplimit: 0x20122000
--- List of All Regions ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000     0x1000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
    0x2000    0xaf000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
   0xb1000     0x1000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
   0xb2000    0x70000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x122000     0x6000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x128000   0x420000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x548000   0x2dd000 r    rwx  (no zone)
  0x825000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
  0x865000    0x20000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
--- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x121000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x122000   0x426000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x548000   0x2dd000 r    rwx  (no zone)
  0x825000    0x60000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
--- Header Information ---
Magic      =3D 0xfeedface
CPUType    =3D 18
CPUSubType =3D 0
FileType   =3D 0x2
NCmds      =3D 10
SizeOfCmds =3D 1620
Flags      =3D 0x00000085
Highest address of load commands in input file:     0x825000
Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0xb18
--- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
 0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
 1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x121000
                               __text               0x1b18   0x10a410
                               __picsymbol_stub   0x10bf28     0x18e4
                               __symbol_stub      0x10d80c          0
                               __cstring          0x10d80c    0x12714
                               __literal4         0x11ff20       0x18
                               __literal8         0x11ff38       0xc8
                               __const            0x120000     0x1f9c
                               __eh_frame         0x121f9c       0x60
 2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x122000   0x426000
                               __data             0x122000     0x25b0
                               __la_symbol_ptr    0x1245b0      0x2c4
                               __nl_symbol_ptr    0x124874      0x8fc
                               __dyld             0x125170       0x1c
                               __const            0x12518c     0x2748
                               __bss              0x1278d8     0x8f28
                               __common           0x130800   0x416d68
 3 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT         0x548000   0x2dd000
 4 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
 5 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
 6 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
 7 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
 8 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
 9 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
--- Load Commands written to Output File ---
Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:
0)
Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x121000 (sz:
0x121000)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x121000 -   0x127000 (sz:
0x6000)
        section __data           at   0x121000 -   0x1235b0 (sz:
0x25b0)
        section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1235b0 -   0x123874 (sz:
0x2c4)
        section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x123874 -   0x124170 (sz:
0x8fc)
        section __dyld           at   0x124170 -   0x12418c (sz:
0x1c)
        section __const          at   0x12418c -   0x1268d4 (sz:
0x2748)
        section __bss            at   0x1268d8 -   0x12f800 (sz:
0x8f28)
        section __common         at   0x12f800 -   0x546568 (sz:
0x416d68)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x547000 -   0x547000 (sz:
0)
Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at   0x547000 -   0x823df4 (sz:
0x2dcdf4)
Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
Fixed up 17/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
1068 unused bytes follow Mach-O header

Program received signal SIGTRAP, Trace/breakpoint trap.
0x8fe19090 in __dyld__dyld_start ()

(gdb) cond 1 (int) strstr(q[u]->name,"srget")

(gdb) c
Continuing.
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
Building symbol table for
/private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixpor
t/raw_pre_gcl.tmp ..

Breakpoint 1, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:65
65          if (strncmp(q[u]->section->name,"*UND*",5) && !(q[u]->flags
& BSF_WEAK))

(gdb) p q[u]->name
$1 =3D 0x5742d1 "___srget"

(gdb) p q[u]->section->name
$2 =3D 0x114e74 "*UND*"

(gdb) p q[u]->flags
$3 =3D 2

(gdb) c
Continuing.
loading ./../lsp/gcl_export.lsp
loading ./../lsp/gcl_defmacro.lsp
loading ./../lsp/gcl_evalmacros.lsp
loading ./../lsp/gcl_top.lsp
loading ./../lsp/gcl_module.lsp
loading ./../lsp/gcl_autoload.lsp

>(quit)

Program exited normally.
(gdb) quit
ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport $

--------

Note I had to add (int) to:

  cond 1 (int) strstr(q[u]->name,"srget")

to avoid an error message about unknow return type.

> > > ...=20
> > > Come to think of it, there may be a problem like the following:
> > >=20
> > > On Linux systems, libc symbols are postpended with a @@ and
> > > version number.   Here is our code to deal with this (sfasli.c):
> > > (my comments in ****)
> > >=20
> > >   for (u=3D0;u<v;u++) {
> > >     char *c=3DNULL;
> > >     struct bfd_link_hash_entry *h;
> > >=20
> > >     if (!*q[u]->name)
> > >       continue;
> > >

This is line 65:

> > >     if (strncmp(q[u]->section->name,"*UND*",5) &&=20
> > > !(q[u]->flags & BSF_WEAK))
> > >       continue;
> > >

Is value of flags=3D2 ok? What is BSF_WEAK?

h/bfd.h:#define BSF_WEAK        0x80
=20
> > > *** the above might skip ___srget ***
> > >=20

It looks like it's gonna skip to me. Is that good or bad?

Also it looks like there is no prepended @@ in q[u]->name.

> > >     if ((c=3D(char *)strstr(q[u]->name,"@@"))) {
> > >       *c=3D0;
> > >       if=20
> > > (!(h=3Dbfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_TRU
> > > E,MY_BFD_TRUE,MY_BFD_TRUE)))
> > > 	FEerror("Cannot make new hash entry",0);
> > >       h->type=3Dbfd_link_hash_new;
> > >     } else if=20
> > >      =20
> > > (!(h=3Dbfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FAL
> > SE,MY_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_TRUE)) &&
> > >       =20
> > > !(h=3Dbfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_TRUE
> > > ,MY_BFD_TRUE,MY_BFD_TRUE)))
> > > 	FEerror("Cannot make new hash entry",0);
> > >=20
> > > *** There might be some other mangling than the @ for ___srget ***
> > >=20
> > >     if (h->type!=3Dbfd_link_hash_defined) {
> > >       if (!q[u]->section)
> > > 	FEerror("Symbol ~S is missing=20
> > > section",1,make_simple_string(q[u]->name));
> > >       if (!my_plt(q[u]->name,&pa)) {
> > > /* 	 printf("my_plt %s %p\n",q[u]->name,(void *)pa);  */
> > >  	if (q[u]->value && q[u]->value!=3Dpa)
> > >  	  FEerror("plt address mismatch", 0);
> > >  	else
> > >  	  q[u]->value=3Dpa;
> > >       }
> > >       if (q[u]->value) {
> > > 	h->type=3Dbfd_link_hash_defined;
> > > 	h->u.def.value=3Dq[u]->value+q[u]->section->vma;
> > > 	h->u.def.section=3Dq[u]->section;
> > >       }
> > >     }
> > >=20
> > >     if (c) {
> > >       *c=3D'@';
> > >       c=3DNULL;
> > >     }
> > >   }
> > >=20
> > > This might be instructive with srget in place of cos:
> > >=20
> > > objdump -x /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl |grep cos
> > > 0812f590 l     F .text	0000015b              number_cos
> > > 00000000       F *UND*	00000026              cos@@GLIBC_2.0
> > > 0804fb40       F *UND*	00000074              acosh@@GLIBC_2.0
> > > 08050440       F *UND*	00000081              cosh@@GLIBC_2.0
> > > 0812f6f0 g     F .text	00000047              Lcos
> > > 00000000       F *UND*	00000026              cosf@@GLIBC_2.0
> > > 08051200       F *UND*	00000075              acos@@GLIBC_2.0
> > >=20
> >=20
> > There is no objdump on this OSX 10.2 system. :-(
> >=20
> > Shall I try to install GNU binutils? The version bundled with GCL
> > or a newer one?
>=20
> The one in the GCL sources should be fine.
>=20

See next email.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and constructors
In-Reply-To: <E1Gcrdh-0006Cm-00@hera.math.uni.wroc.pl>
To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 01:33:17 +0200 (CEST)
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I wrote:
> I tested build-improvements on x86-64 Debian testing, using bundled
> noweb and gcl.  Now, I also tested silver on 32-bit Debian sarge
> (x86-64 Debian testing is still working on silver).

Unfortunatly, silver does not build on x86-64 Debian testing:

1 linking /var/tmp/hebisch/axp7/silver/axiom/mnt/linux/lib/viewman
gcc: /usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.a: Nie ma takiego pliku ani katalogu
make[4]: *** [/var/tmp/hebisch/axp7/silver/axiom/mnt/linux/lib/viewman] B=
=B3=B1d 1

The error message says: "No such file or directory".  x86-64 Debian
testing has X libraries in '/usr/bin', and apparently silver can not
handle this.

I have checked that Makefile change has desired effect (newly built
'libdb.text' and 'comdb.text' got copied to algebra subdirectory).

BTW. Also build on Sarge was not smooth: latex stopped on 'bookvol1.tex',
but it was enough to press 'x' twice to restart.

--=20
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl=20



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> I wrote:
> > I tested build-improvements on x86-64 Debian testing, using bundled
> > noweb and gcl.  Now, I also tested silver on 32-bit Debian sarge
> > (x86-64 Debian testing is still working on silver).
>=20
> Unfortunatly, silver does not build on x86-64 Debian testing:
>=20
> 1 linking /var/tmp/hebisch/axp7/silver/axiom/mnt/linux/lib/viewman
> gcc: /usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.a: Nie ma takiego pliku ani katalogu
> make[4]: *** [/var/tmp/hebisch/axp7/silver/axiom/mnt/linux/lib/viewman] B=
=B3=B1d 1
>

OK, after changing Makefile.pamphlet to eliminate error I was able to
finish the build -- the change works as expected.

--=20
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl=20



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and pty
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I wanted to try hypertex in silver on Gentoo Linux.  It turned out
that I can not start sman, becouse 'ptyopen' was failing.  Atfter
a little investigation I found out that the machine (which otherwise
uses bleeding edge new software) has only old legacy pty's -- the
new '/dev/ptmx' and '/dev/pts' were not enabled.  All other
software worked fine, trying '/dev/ptmx' first and then silently
falling back to legacy pty's -- only Axiom assumed that Linux
must have working '/dev/ptmx'.

While I consider this machine as misconfigured, the problem may
appear in real use.  If we want Axiom to "just work" it should
also try new method first and then fall back to legacy pty's.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and constructors
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| I wrote:
| > I tested build-improvements on x86-64 Debian testing, using bundled
| > noweb and gcl.  Now, I also tested silver on 32-bit Debian sarge
| > (x86-64 Debian testing is still working on silver).
|=20
| Unfortunatly, silver does not build on x86-64 Debian testing:
|=20
| 1 linking /var/tmp/hebisch/axp7/silver/axiom/mnt/linux/lib/viewman
| gcc: /usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.a: Nie ma takiego pliku ani katalogu
| make[4]: *** [/var/tmp/hebisch/axp7/silver/axiom/mnt/linux/lib/viewman] B=
=B3=B1d 1
|=20
| The error message says: "No such file or directory".  x86-64 Debian
| testing has X libraries in '/usr/bin', and apparently silver can not
| handle this.

This is a known problem several people ran into.=20=20

The issue is that the build machineries on silver and golden hardcode
many things in the makefiles (in particular the path to X11 headers and
libraries) based only on the OS brand, instead of using the standard
canonical triplet cpu-vendor-os.  The net effect is that if your OS
brand is not special-cased and you're running something vaguely
ressembling GNU/Linux, you get the Makefile for linux.  Now, there
everything is hardcoded based on some particular configuration (in
particular 32-bit). Thus failure if you don't meet those unsopken
assumptions.  The path to the X11 library on your=20
64-bit system is most likely /usr/X11R6/lib64.

The canonical solution to that sort of problem is to use the standard
build tools, i.e. Autoconf.  That is what the build-improvements
branch does.

-- Gaby



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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
To: "Camm Maguire" <camm@enhanced.com>
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Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Camm,

See output of objdump as suggested below.
=20
On Wednesday, October 25, 2006 11:10 AM you wrote:
> ...
> > >=20
> > > This might be instructive with srget in place of cos:
> > >=20
> > > objdump -x /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl |grep cos
> > > 0812f590 l     F .text	0000015b              number_cos
> > > 00000000       F *UND*	00000026              cos@@GLIBC_2.0
> > > 0804fb40       F *UND*	00000074              acosh@@GLIBC_2.0
> > > 08050440       F *UND*	00000081              cosh@@GLIBC_2.0
> > > 0812f6f0 g     F .text	00000047              Lcos
> > > 00000000       F *UND*	00000026              cosf@@GLIBC_2.0
> > > 08051200       F *UND*	00000075              acos@@GLIBC_2.0
> > >=20
> >=20

On Wednesday, October 25, 2006 7:20 PM I wrote:

> ...
>
> See next email.
>=20

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ objdump -x unixport/saved_gcl | grep
cos

00000000      d  *UND* unexmacosx.c
0000db14      d  *UND* unexmacosx.c
00000000      d  *UND*
passwd:T(1,94)=3Ds40pw_name:(1,1),0,32;pw_passwd:(1,1),32,32;pw_uid:(1,95=
)
=3D(1,96)=3D(1,65),64,32;pw_gid:(1,97)=3D(1,96),96,32;pw_change:(1,98)=3D=
(1,41),
128,32;pw_class:(1,1),160,32;pw_gecos:(1,1),192,32;pw_dir:(1,1),224,32;p
w_shell:(1,1),256,32;pw_expire:(1,98),288,32;;
00278f5c         *UND* _number_cos
00278f5c      d  *UND* number_cos:f(1,2)
00279930      d  *UND* Lcos:F(1,53)
00279930 g       *UND* _Lcos
00000000 g       *UND* _acos
00000000 g       *UND* _acosh
00000000 g       *UND* _cos
00000000 g       *UND* _cosh

ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ objdump -x unixport/saved_gcl | grep
srget
00000000 g       *UND* ___srget
ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $



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Waldek,

Could you latex bookvol1.tex and let me know why it stops?
This file is a copy of the published tutorial.

Tim



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Tim --

  Is there a reason why construc.lisp is not loaded into debugsys?

-- Gaby



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> Waldek,
> 
> Could you latex bookvol1.tex and let me know why it stops?
> This file is a copy of the published tutorial.
>

The problem is very simple: '\spadgraph' is defined both in
'axiom.sty' and at the beginiing of 'bookvol1.pamphlet'. It
is fixed in build-improvements (and I suppose also in your
version).

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Bill,

I did a checkout of the sourceforge SVN root.
I'll diff the SVN vs axiom--silver--1 so nothing gets lost.

t



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and pty
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Le jeudi 26 octobre 2006 =E0 02:36 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
> I wanted to try hypertex in silver on Gentoo Linux.  It turned out
> that I can not start sman, becouse 'ptyopen' was failing.  Atfter
> a little investigation I found out that the machine (which otherwise
> uses bleeding edge new software) has only old legacy pty's -- the
> new '/dev/ptmx' and '/dev/pts' were not enabled.  All other
> software worked fine, trying '/dev/ptmx' first and then silently
> falling back to legacy pty's -- only Axiom assumed that Linux
> must have working '/dev/ptmx'.
>=20
> While I consider this machine as misconfigured, the problem may
> appear in real use.  If we want Axiom to "just work" it should
> also try new method first and then fall back to legacy pty's.
>=20

See http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/189GraphicsDoesNotWorkOnDebian


Greg




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Tim --

  The source file postprop.lisp is compiled into depsys, but loaded
in interpreted form in AXIOMsys.  What is the reason for that?

-- Gaby



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> 
> Tim --
> 
>   The source file postprop.lisp is compiled into depsys, but loaded
> in interpreted form in AXIOMsys.  What is the reason for that?
> 

AFAIK postprop.lisp is unused -- IMHO it should be removed.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| > 
| > Tim --
| > 
| >   The source file postprop.lisp is compiled into depsys, but loaded
| > in interpreted form in AXIOMsys.  What is the reason for that?
| > 
| 
| AFAIK postprop.lisp is unused -- IMHO it should be removed.

It is compiled into depsys -- which is used to compile "old" Boot.
>From what I can see from the source file, it is used to map tokens to
functions that parse corresponding grammar production (i.e. to support
the zipper parser).

-- Gaby



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Tim --

  def.lisp is loaded twice into debugsys.

-- Gaby



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> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | > 
> | > Tim --
> | > 
> | >   The source file postprop.lisp is compiled into depsys, but loaded
> | > in interpreted form in AXIOMsys.  What is the reason for that?
> | > 
> | 
> | AFAIK postprop.lisp is unused -- IMHO it should be removed.
> 
> It is compiled into depsys -- which is used to compile "old" Boot.
> >From what I can see from the source file, it is used to map tokens to
> functions that parse corresponding grammar production (i.e. to support
> the zipper parser).
> 

Well, beauty of Lisp: the same things are defined in 'property.lisp'
(except for |special| property, which is unused). You are probably
right that depsys picks definitions from 'postprop.lisp'.  In my
experiments (IIRC using AXIOMsys) changing 'postprop.lisp' did not
work (had no effect), but changing 'property.lisp' worked.  Also data
in 'property.lisp' is slightly different, but for me it looks better
than what is in 'postprop.lisp'.  And bootstrap with 'postprop.lisp' 
removed worked fine.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > 
| > | > 
| > | > Tim --
| > | > 
| > | >   The source file postprop.lisp is compiled into depsys, but loaded
| > | > in interpreted form in AXIOMsys.  What is the reason for that?
| > | > 
| > | 
| > | AFAIK postprop.lisp is unused -- IMHO it should be removed.
| > 
| > It is compiled into depsys -- which is used to compile "old" Boot.
| > >From what I can see from the source file, it is used to map tokens to
| > functions that parse corresponding grammar production (i.e. to support
| > the zipper parser).
| > 
| 
| Well, beauty of Lisp: the same things are defined in 'property.lisp'
| (except for |special| property, which is unused). You are probably
| right that depsys picks definitions from 'postprop.lisp'.  In my
| experiments (IIRC using AXIOMsys) changing 'postprop.lisp' did not
| work (had no effect), but changing 'property.lisp' worked.  Also data
| in 'property.lisp' is slightly different, but for me it looks better
| than what is in 'postprop.lisp'.  And bootstrap with 'postprop.lisp' 
| removed worked fine.

What a mess.

First property.lisp gets loaded interpreted.  Second, down the pipe,
postprop.lisp gets compiled and loaded.  If I understand you correctly,
you say it is the the same data?

-- Gaby



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To: daly@axiom-developer.org
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] postprop.lisp
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From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > > | > 
| > > | > Tim --
| > > | > 
| > > | >   The source file postprop.lisp is compiled into depsys, but loaded
| > > | > in interpreted form in AXIOMsys.  What is the reason for that?
| > > | > 
| > > | 
| > > | AFAIK postprop.lisp is unused -- IMHO it should be removed.
| > > 
| > > It is compiled into depsys -- which is used to compile "old" Boot.
| > > >From what I can see from the source file, it is used to map tokens to
| > > functions that parse corresponding grammar production (i.e. to support
| > > the zipper parser).
| > > 
| > 
| > Well, beauty of Lisp: the same things are defined in 'property.lisp'
| > (except for |special| property, which is unused). You are probably
| > right that depsys picks definitions from 'postprop.lisp'.  In my
| > experiments (IIRC using AXIOMsys) changing 'postprop.lisp' did not
| > work (had no effect), but changing 'property.lisp' worked.  Also data
| > in 'property.lisp' is slightly different, but for me it looks better
| > than what is in 'postprop.lisp'.  And bootstrap with 'postprop.lisp' 
| > removed worked fine.
| 
| you're both asking questions i can't answer off the top of my head.
| there is certain to be a lot of cruft in axiom.
| 
| however, i take the most conservative approach and PROVE that
| each function removed CANNOT every be called. be aware that
| the compiler sometimes dynamically constructs function names.

If I understand Waldek correctly, "unused" is probably the wrong
term.  Rather, "redundant" or "duplicate" would be appropriate.
Essentially, he is saying that property.lisp has the same definitions
and take over postprop.lisp.  I hve not run the "mental" diff yet.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] postprop.lisp
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> > | > 
> > | > Tim --
> > | > 
> > | >   The source file postprop.lisp is compiled into depsys, but loaded
> > | > in interpreted form in AXIOMsys.  What is the reason for that?
> > | > 
> > | 
> > | AFAIK postprop.lisp is unused -- IMHO it should be removed.
> > 
> > It is compiled into depsys -- which is used to compile "old" Boot.
> > >From what I can see from the source file, it is used to map tokens to
> > functions that parse corresponding grammar production (i.e. to support
> > the zipper parser).
> > 
> 
> Well, beauty of Lisp: the same things are defined in 'property.lisp'
> (except for |special| property, which is unused). You are probably
> right that depsys picks definitions from 'postprop.lisp'.  In my
> experiments (IIRC using AXIOMsys) changing 'postprop.lisp' did not
> work (had no effect), but changing 'property.lisp' worked.  Also data
> in 'property.lisp' is slightly different, but for me it looks better
> than what is in 'postprop.lisp'.  And bootstrap with 'postprop.lisp' 
> removed worked fine.

you're both asking questions i can't answer off the top of my head.
there is certain to be a lot of cruft in axiom.

however, i take the most conservative approach and PROVE that
each function removed CANNOT every be called. be aware that
the compiler sometimes dynamically constructs function names.

t



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To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] postprop.lisp
References: <E1GcuyR-0003jO-00@hera.math.uni.wroc.pl>
From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Well, beauty of Lisp: the same things are defined in 'property.lisp'
| (except for |special| property, which is unused). You are probably
| right that depsys picks definitions from 'postprop.lisp'.  In my
| experiments (IIRC using AXIOMsys) changing 'postprop.lisp' did not
| work (had no effect), but changing 'property.lisp' worked.  Also data
| in 'property.lisp' is slightly different, but for me it looks better
| than what is in 'postprop.lisp'.  And bootstrap with 'postprop.lisp' 
| removed worked fine.

Just for other people investigating this issue: postprop.lisp is on
the list of autoloaded files for the "old parser"; property.lisp is not.
(I don't claim that contradicts your findings).

-- Gaby



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] postprop.lisp
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Gaby,

Here are some simple patches to build-improvements required by
some versions of awk. Of course you need also to rebuild the
corresponding Makefile.in files.

-----

page@sage:~/axiom.build-improvements$ hg diff .

The following patch ensures that if make is restarted, it does
not append extra rules to more-rules.mk.

diff -r b5dad223062a src/Makefile.pamphlet
--- a/src/Makefile.pamphlet     Tue Oct 24 01:45:16 2006 +0000
+++ b/src/Makefile.pamphlet     Wed Oct 25 21:38:06 2006 -0700
@@ -221,7 +221,7 @@ Further details are provided in [[src/al
                   > $(INT)/algebra/findAlgebraFiles && \
        echo 30b running ${INT}/algebra/findAlgebraFiles && \
        (cd $(srcdir)/algebra && . $(INT)/algebra/findAlgebraFiles) \
-          >> $(builddir)/algebra/more-rules.mk
+          > $(builddir)/algebra/more-rules.mk
        cd algebra && ${ENV} ${MAKE}
 @


There was a minor typo in the else clause: should be tab instead
of spaces. Plus we should not escape the $ in awk since newer
versions of awk (> 3.79) treat this as a literal.

diff -r b5dad223062a src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet
--- a/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet     Tue Oct 24 01:45:16 2006 +0000
+++ b/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet     Wed Oct 25 22:05:01 2006 -0700
@@ -1635,7 +1635,7 @@ deriving the dependencies by scanning th
        @ (cd ${MID} ; \
           if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
            echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS}  ; \
-           else \
+          else \
             echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
           fi )

@@ -1772,9 +1772,9 @@ awk -F: '{
 awk -F: '{
   chunk=3Dsubstr($2,3,length($2)-5);
   split(chunk,part," ");
-  spadfile=3D"\${MID}/"part[2]".spad";
-  print spadfile": \$(srcdir)/"$1;
-  print "\t@\${TANGLE} -R\""chunk"\" \$(srcdir)/"$1">"spadfile;
+  spadfile=3D"${MID}/"part[2]".spad";
+  print spadfile": $(srcdir)/"$1;
+  print "\t@${TANGLE} -R\""chunk"\" $(srcdir)/"$1">"spadfile;
   print "";
 }'

@@ -1835,9 +1835,9 @@ awk -F: '{
 awk -F: '{
   chunk=3Dsubstr($2,3,length($2)-5);
   split(chunk,part," ");
-  lspfile=3D"\${MID}/"part[1];
-  print lspfile": \$(srcdir)/"$1;
-  print "\t@\${TANGLE} -R\""chunk"\" \$(srcdir)/"$1">"lspfile;
+  lspfile=3D"${MID}/"part[1];
+  print lspfile": $(srcdir)/"$1;
+  print "\t@${TANGLE} -R\""chunk"\" $(srcdir)/"$1">"lspfile;
   print "";
 }'

---------

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Corrected subject line. Delete previous email.

-----Original Message-----
From: =
axiom-developer-bounces+bill.page1=3Dsynthesis.anikast.ca@nongnu.org
[mailto:axiom-developer-bounces+bill.page1=3Dsynthesis.anikast.ca@nongnu.=
o
rg] On Behalf Of Page, Bill
Sent: Thursday, October 26, 2006 1:27 AM
To: Gabriel Dos Reis
Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org
Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] postprop.lisp

Gaby,

Here are some simple patches to build-improvements required by
some versions of awk. Of course you need also to rebuild the
corresponding Makefile.in files.

-----

page@sage:~/axiom.build-improvements$ hg diff .

The following patch ensures that if make is restarted, it does
not append extra rules to more-rules.mk.

diff -r b5dad223062a src/Makefile.pamphlet
--- a/src/Makefile.pamphlet     Tue Oct 24 01:45:16 2006 +0000
+++ b/src/Makefile.pamphlet     Wed Oct 25 21:38:06 2006 -0700
@@ -221,7 +221,7 @@ Further details are provided in [[src/al
                   > $(INT)/algebra/findAlgebraFiles && \
        echo 30b running ${INT}/algebra/findAlgebraFiles && \
        (cd $(srcdir)/algebra && . $(INT)/algebra/findAlgebraFiles) \
-          >> $(builddir)/algebra/more-rules.mk
+          > $(builddir)/algebra/more-rules.mk
        cd algebra && ${ENV} ${MAKE}
 @


There was a minor typo in the else clause: should be tab instead
of spaces. Plus we should not escape the $ in awk since newer
versions of awk (> 3.79) treat this as a literal.

diff -r b5dad223062a src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet
--- a/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet     Tue Oct 24 01:45:16 2006 +0000
+++ b/src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet     Wed Oct 25 22:05:01 2006 -0700
@@ -1635,7 +1635,7 @@ deriving the dependencies by scanning th
        @ (cd ${MID} ; \
           if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
            echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS}  ; \
-           else \
+          else \
             echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
           fi )

@@ -1772,9 +1772,9 @@ awk -F: '{
 awk -F: '{
   chunk=3Dsubstr($2,3,length($2)-5);
   split(chunk,part," ");
-  spadfile=3D"\${MID}/"part[2]".spad";
-  print spadfile": \$(srcdir)/"$1;
-  print "\t@\${TANGLE} -R\""chunk"\" \$(srcdir)/"$1">"spadfile;
+  spadfile=3D"${MID}/"part[2]".spad";
+  print spadfile": $(srcdir)/"$1;
+  print "\t@${TANGLE} -R\""chunk"\" $(srcdir)/"$1">"spadfile;
   print "";
 }'

@@ -1835,9 +1835,9 @@ awk -F: '{
 awk -F: '{
   chunk=3Dsubstr($2,3,length($2)-5);
   split(chunk,part," ");
-  lspfile=3D"\${MID}/"part[1];
-  print lspfile": \$(srcdir)/"$1;
-  print "\t@\${TANGLE} -R\""chunk"\" \$(srcdir)/"$1">"lspfile;
+  lspfile=3D"${MID}/"part[1];
+  print lspfile": $(srcdir)/"$1;
+  print "\t@${TANGLE} -R\""chunk"\" $(srcdir)/"$1">"lspfile;
   print "";
 }'

---------

Regards,
Bill Page.


_______________________________________________
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Subject: [Axiom-developer] build-improvement renamed files
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Gaby,

Building the build-improvements branch tonight I noticed that the
following files still need to be renamed in the repository (svn mv):

page@sage:~/axiom.build-improvements$ hg status src/hyper
! src/hyper/form_ext.pamphlet
! src/hyper/parse_input.pamphlet
! src/hyper/parse_paste.pamphlet
! src/hyper/parse_types.pamphlet
! src/hyper/show_types.pamphlet
? src/hyper/form-ext.pamphlet
? src/hyper/parse-input.pamphlet
? src/hyper/parse-paste.pamphlet
? src/hyper/parse-types.pamphlet
? src/hyper/show-types.pamphlet

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Bill Page wrote:
> Building the build-improvements branch tonight I noticed that the
> following files still need to be renamed in the repository (svn mv):
> 
> page@sage:~/axiom.build-improvements$ hg status src/hyper
> ! src/hyper/form_ext.pamphlet
> ! src/hyper/parse_input.pamphlet
> ! src/hyper/parse_paste.pamphlet
> ! src/hyper/parse_types.pamphlet
> ! src/hyper/show_types.pamphlet
> ? src/hyper/form-ext.pamphlet
> ? src/hyper/parse-input.pamphlet
> ? src/hyper/parse-paste.pamphlet
> ? src/hyper/parse-types.pamphlet
> ? src/hyper/show-types.pamphlet
> 

My copy (obtained via svn update from SourceForge) has:
$ ls axp6/build-improvements/src/hyper/
addfile.pamphlet              halloc.pamphlet    pages
bitmaps                       hash.pamphlet      parse-aux.pamphlet
bitmaps.pamphlet              htadd.pamphlet     parse-input.pamphlet
ChangeLog                     hterror.pamphlet   parse.pamphlet
ChangeLog.build-improvements  hthits.pamphlet    parse-paste.pamphlet
cond.pamphlet                 htinp.pamphlet     parse-types.pamphlet
debug.pamphlet                hyper.pamphlet     ReadBitmap.pamphlet
dialog.pamphlet               initx.pamphlet     scrollbar.pamphlet
display.pamphlet              input.pamphlet     search.pamphlet
event.pamphlet                item.pamphlet      show-types.pamphlet
ex2ht.pamphlet                keyin.pamphlet     spadbuf.pamphlet
extent1.pamphlet              lex.pamphlet       spadint.pamphlet
extent2.pamphlet              macro.pamphlet     titlebar.pamphlet
extent.pamphlet               Makefile.in        token.pamphlet
form-ext.pamphlet             Makefile.pamphlet  viewports
group.pamphlet                mem.pamphlet

So, I wonder if mercurial (or maybe Tailor) correctly tracks
file renames.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] postprop.lisp
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> root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
> 
> | > > | > 
> | > > | > Tim --
> | > > | > 
> | > > | >   The source file postprop.lisp is compiled into depsys, but loaded
> | > > | > in interpreted form in AXIOMsys.  What is the reason for that?
> | > > | > 
> | > > | 
> | > > | AFAIK postprop.lisp is unused -- IMHO it should be removed.
> | > > 
> | > > It is compiled into depsys -- which is used to compile "old" Boot.
> | > > >From what I can see from the source file, it is used to map tokens to
> | > > functions that parse corresponding grammar production (i.e. to support
> | > > the zipper parser).
> | > > 
> | > 
> | > Well, beauty of Lisp: the same things are defined in 'property.lisp'
> | > (except for |special| property, which is unused). You are probably
> | > right that depsys picks definitions from 'postprop.lisp'.  In my
> | > experiments (IIRC using AXIOMsys) changing 'postprop.lisp' did not
> | > work (had no effect), but changing 'property.lisp' worked.  Also data
> | > in 'property.lisp' is slightly different, but for me it looks better
> | > than what is in 'postprop.lisp'.  And bootstrap with 'postprop.lisp' 
> | > removed worked fine.
> | 
> | you're both asking questions i can't answer off the top of my head.
> | there is certain to be a lot of cruft in axiom.
> | 
> | however, i take the most conservative approach and PROVE that
> | each function removed CANNOT every be called. be aware that
> | the compiler sometimes dynamically constructs function names.
> 
> If I understand Waldek correctly, "unused" is probably the wrong
> term.  Rather, "redundant" or "duplicate" would be appropriate.
> Essentially, he is saying that property.lisp has the same definitions
> and take over postprop.lisp.  I hve not run the "mental" diff yet.
> 

1) postprop.lisp is loaded purly for side effects: there are no
   functions or macros defined here.
2) I claim that property |special| initialized in postprop.lisp
   is not used: almost identical property SPECIAL defined in
   property.lisp is used insted.
3) property |postTran| initialized in postprop.lisp is a subset
   of property |postTran| initialized in property.lisp. Namely
   property.lisp contains extra pair (|::| |postColonColon|).
4) property |parseTran| initialized in postprop.lisp has an extra
   tuple (|xor| |parseExclusiveOr|) but misses tuple
   (SEGMENT |parseSegment|) compared to property.lisp
5) both postprop.lisp and property.lisp are loaded. So the image
   uses _sum_ of both definitions: if we want to remove postprop.lisp
   but preserve current behaviour we should add (|xor| |parseExclusiveOr|)
   to property.lisp 
6) with postprop.lisp removed (also from autolaod list) axiom
   built fine.


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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On Thursday, October 26, 2006 4:59 AM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
>=20
> Bill Page wrote:
> > Building the build-improvements branch tonight I noticed that the
> > following files still need to be renamed in the repository (svn mv):
> >=20
> > page@sage:~/axiom.build-improvements$ hg status src/hyper
> > ! src/hyper/form_ext.pamphlet
> > ! src/hyper/parse_input.pamphlet
> > ! src/hyper/parse_paste.pamphlet
> > ! src/hyper/parse_types.pamphlet
> > ! src/hyper/show_types.pamphlet
> > ? src/hyper/form-ext.pamphlet
> > ? src/hyper/parse-input.pamphlet
> > ? src/hyper/parse-paste.pamphlet
> > ? src/hyper/parse-types.pamphlet
> > ? src/hyper/show-types.pamphlet
> >=20
>=20
> My copy (obtained via svn update from SourceForge) has:
> $ ls axp6/build-improvements/src/hyper/
> addfile.pamphlet              halloc.pamphlet    pages
> bitmaps                       hash.pamphlet      parse-aux.pamphlet
> bitmaps.pamphlet              htadd.pamphlet     parse-input.pamphlet
> ChangeLog                     hterror.pamphlet   parse.pamphlet
> ChangeLog.build-improvements  hthits.pamphlet    parse-paste.pamphlet
> cond.pamphlet                 htinp.pamphlet     parse-types.pamphlet
> debug.pamphlet                hyper.pamphlet     ReadBitmap.pamphlet
> dialog.pamphlet               initx.pamphlet     scrollbar.pamphlet
> display.pamphlet              input.pamphlet     search.pamphlet
> event.pamphlet                item.pamphlet      show-types.pamphlet
> ex2ht.pamphlet                keyin.pamphlet     spadbuf.pamphlet
> extent1.pamphlet              lex.pamphlet       spadint.pamphlet
> extent2.pamphlet              macro.pamphlet     titlebar.pamphlet
> extent.pamphlet               Makefile.in        token.pamphlet
> form-ext.pamphlet             Makefile.pamphlet  viewports
> group.pamphlet                mem.pamphlet
>=20
> So, I wonder if mercurial (or maybe Tailor) correctly tracks
> file renames.
>=20

You are right. I was looking at the Mercurial version of
build-improvements. The commit that changed the file names
was actually processed two days ago, but the Mercurial version
does not reflect these changed names - although it does contain
other changes. In Mercurial I can locally rename these files,
so I think it is a problem with Tailor. :-(

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 16:54:30 +0200 (CEST)
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From: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org
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Vanuxem Gr=E9gory wrote:
> Le jeudi 26 octobre 2006 ? 02:36 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
> > I wanted to try hypertex in silver on Gentoo Linux.  It turned out
> > that I can not start sman, becouse 'ptyopen' was failing.  Atfter
> > a little investigation I found out that the machine (which otherwise
> > uses bleeding edge new software) has only old legacy pty's -- the
> > new '/dev/ptmx' and '/dev/pts' were not enabled.  All other
> > software worked fine, trying '/dev/ptmx' first and then silently
> > falling back to legacy pty's -- only Axiom assumed that Linux
> > must have working '/dev/ptmx'.
> >=20
> > While I consider this machine as misconfigured, the problem may
> > appear in real use.  If we want Axiom to "just work" it should
> > also try new method first and then fall back to legacy pty's.
> >=20
>=20
> See http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/189GraphicsDoesNotWorkOnDebian
>=20

I see, I am not the first with this problem.  Concerning the patch:
while technically it seem to work (I tested a slight variation of it),
it has many problems:

1) the patch duplicates code (my variation avoids duplication)
2) on Linux there is 'openpty' library function which is smart
   enough to try first '/dev/ptmx' and if needed fall back to
   legacy pty's. 'openpty' also handles extra issues (like=20
   changing access rights to legacy pty's) -- we probably should
   use it.
3) in general 'openpty.c.pamphlet' is messy and the patch from
   wiki only adds to this mess

--=20
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl=20



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Trying a second time.

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The original message was received at Wed, 25 Oct 2006 16:08:07 -0500 (CDT)
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Subject: [build-improvements] Partial simplification of src/interp/Makefile
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Hi,

  This patch abstracts over the individual rules to compile Boot codes
in src/interp/ using bootsys (aka "new" Boot).

  Subsequent patches will abstract over individual rules for compiling
Lisp code to object codes, and the rest of the Boot codes too.  The
remaing Boot files are currently compiled using the boot translator
from src/interp/ (aka "old" Boot).  I did not perform that conversion in
this patch because some of the files contain constructs that do one of

  (1) violate the grammar of "new" Boot, or
  (2) tripple over parser bug.

I know of a couple of examples for both cases -- I'll describe them
when I get to submit the appropriate patches.

This patch has been built and tested on an i686-pc-linux-gnu.
Committed to build-improvements.

-- Gaby

2006-10-25  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>

	* debugsys.lisp.pamphlet (build-interpsys): Adjust pathname to
	files that are local to the current build directory.

	* Makefile.pamphlet: Remove individual rules for making object
	codes out of Boot pamphlet using bootsys.
	(BOOT_TO_LISP, COMPILE_LISP): New.
	(AXIOMsys_boot_sources): Likewise.  List core Boot files here.
	(<<extract source codes>>): New chunk.  Abstract over special
	individual rules to translate Boot to object code, using bootsys.
	* Makefile.in: Regenerate.

*** src/interp/Makefile.in	(revision 15903)
--- src/interp/Makefile.in	(local)
*************** OUT=${OBJ}/${SYS}/interp
*** 7,12 ****
--- 7,18 ----
  DOC=$(axiom_target_docdir)/src/interp
  BOOK=$(axiom_target_docdir)
  
+ # Command to translate Boot to Common Lisp
+ BOOT_TO_LISP = echo '(boottran::boottocl "$<")' | $(BOOTSYS) >> $(TMP)/trace
+ 
+ # Command to translate Common Lisp to native object code
+ COMPILE_LISP = echo '(compile-file "$<" :output-file "$@")' | $(DEPSYS) \
+ 		    >> $(TMP)/trace
  AUTO=$(axiom_targetdir)/autoload
  
  autoload_objects =
*************** OBJS=	${OUT}/vmlisp.$(OBJEXT)	${OUT}/has
*** 108,113 ****
--- 114,135 ----
  	${OUT}/union.$(OBJEXT)       ${OUT}/daase.$(OBJEXT)  	\
  	${OUT}/fortcall.$(OBJEXT)
  
+ 
+ AXIOMsys_boot_sources = astr.boot alql.boot buildom.boot cattable.boot \
+ 	cformat.boot clam.boot clammed.boot compat.boot compress.boot \
+ 	cparse.boot cstream.boot database.boot dq.boot format.boot \
+ 	g-boot.boot g-cndata.boot g-error.boot g-opt.boot g-timer.boot \
+ 	g-util.boot hypertex.boot i-analy.boot i-code.boot i-coerce.boot \
+ 	i-coerfn.boot i-eval.boot i-funsel.boot i-intern.boot i-map.boot \
+ 	i-output.boot i-resolv.boot i-spec1.boot i-spec2.boot \
+ 	i-syscmd.boot i-toplev.boot i-util.boot incl.boot int-top.boot \
+ 	intfile.boot lisplib.boot macex.boot match.boot msg.boot \
+ 	msgdb.boot newfort.boot nrunfast.boot nrungo.boot nrunopt.boot \
+ 	nruntime.boot osyscmd.boot packtran.boot pathname.boot \
+ 	pf2sex.boot pile.boot posit.boot ptrees.boot ptrop.boot \
+ 	record.boot rulesets.boot scan.boot serror.boot server.boot \
+ 	setvars.boot sfsfun.boot simpbool.boot slam.boot template.boot \
+ 	termrw.boot trace.boot fortcall.boot
  INOBJS=	${OUT}/varini.$(OBJEXT)	${OUT}/parini.$(OBJEXT)	\
  	${OUT}/setvart.$(OBJEXT)	${OUT}/intint.$(OBJEXT)	\
          ${OUT}/xrun.$(OBJEXT)        ${OUT}/interop.$(OBJEXT)     \
*************** $(AUTO):
*** 306,311 ****
--- 328,341 ----
  $(MID):
  	$(mkinstalldirs) $@
  
+ %.boot: $(srcdir)/%.boot.pamphlet
+ 	$(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$@ $<
+ .PRECIOUS: %.clisp
+ %.clisp: %.boot
+ 	$(BOOT_TO_LISP)
+ .PRECIOUS: $(OUT)/%.$(OBJEXT)
+ $(OUT)/%.$(OBJEXT): %.clisp
+ 	$(COMPILE_LISP)
  
  mostlyclean-local: ;
  
*************** ${MID}/as.clisp: $(srcdir)/as.boot.pamph
*** 521,546 ****
  	  rm as.boot )
  
  
- ${OUT}/astr.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/astr.clisp 
- 	@ echo 531 making ${OUT}/astr.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/astr.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/astr.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/astr.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/astr.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/astr.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/astr.clisp: $(srcdir)/astr.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 532 making ${MID}/astr.clisp from $(srcdir)/astr.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/astr.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/astr.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/astr.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm astr.boot )
- 
- 
  ${AUTO}/ax.$(OBJEXT): ${OUT}/ax.$(OBJEXT)
  	@ echo 461 making ${AUTO}/ax.$(OBJEXT) from ${OUT}/ax.$(OBJEXT)
  	@ cp ${OUT}/ax.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}
--- 551,556 ----
*************** ${MID}/c-doc.clisp: $(srcdir)/c-doc.boot
*** 1010,1035 ****
  	  rm c-doc.boot )
  
  
- ${OUT}/cformat.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/cformat.clisp 
- 	@ echo 543 making ${OUT}/cformat.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/cformat.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/cformat.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/cformat.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/cformat.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/cformat.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/cformat.clisp: $(srcdir)/cformat.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 544 making ${MID}/cformat.clisp from $(srcdir)/cformat.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/cformat.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/cformat.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/cformat.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm cformat.boot )
- 
- 
  ${OUT}/cfuns.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/cfuns.lisp
  	@ echo 24 making ${OUT}/cfuns.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/cfuns.lisp
  	@ ( cd ${MID} ; \
--- 1020,1025 ----
*************** ${OUT}/construc.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/constr
*** 1175,1220 ****
  ${MID}/construc.lisp: $(srcdir)/construc.lisp.pamphlet
  	$(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$@ $<
  
- ${OUT}/cparse.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/cparse.clisp
- 	@ echo 513 making ${OUT}/cparse.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/cparse.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/cparse.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/cparse.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/cparse.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/cparse.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/cparse.clisp: $(srcdir)/cparse.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 514 making ${MID}/cparse.clisp from $(srcdir)/cparse.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/cparse.boot $< ;\
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/cparse.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/cparse.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm cparse.boot )
- 
- 
- ${OUT}/cstream.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/cstream.clisp 
- 	@ echo 528 making ${OUT}/cstream.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/cstream.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/cstream.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/cstream.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/cstream.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/cstream.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/cstream.clisp: $(srcdir)/cstream.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 529 making ${MID}/cstream.clisp from $(srcdir)/cstream.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/cstream.boot $<; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/cstream.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/cstream.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm cstream.boot )
- 
- 
  ${AUTO}/c-util.$(OBJEXT): ${OUT}/c-util.$(OBJEXT)
  	@ echo 145 making ${AUTO}/c-util.$(OBJEXT) from ${OUT}/c-util.$(OBJEXT)
  	@ cp ${OUT}/c-util.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}
--- 1165,1170 ----
*************** ${MID}/define.clisp: $(srcdir)/define.bo
*** 1339,1364 ****
  	  rm define.boot )
  
  
- ${OUT}/dq.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/dq.clisp 
- 	@ echo 525 making ${OUT}/dq.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/dq.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/dq.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/dq.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/dq.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/dq.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/dq.clisp: $(srcdir)/dq.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 526 making ${MID}/dq.clisp from $(srcdir)/dq.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/dq.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/dq.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/dq.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm dq.boot )
- 
- 
  ${OUT}/fname.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/fname.lisp
  	@ echo 46 making ${OUT}/fname.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/fname.lisp
  	@ ( cd ${MID} ; \
--- 1289,1294 ----
*************** ${MID}/i-map.clisp: $(srcdir)/i-map.boot
*** 1977,2002 ****
  	  rm i-map.boot )
  
  
- ${OUT}/incl.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/incl.clisp 
- 	@ echo 504 making ${OUT}/incl.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/incl.clisp
- 	@  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	    echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/incl.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/incl.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	   else \
- 	    echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/incl.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/incl.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	   fi
- 
- ${MID}/incl.clisp: $(srcdir)/incl.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 505 making ${MID}/incl.clisp from $(srcdir)/incl.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/incl.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/incl.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/incl.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm incl.boot )
- 
- 
  ${AUTO}/info.$(OBJEXT): ${OUT}/info.$(OBJEXT)
  	@ echo 327 making ${AUTO}/info.$(OBJEXT) from ${OUT}/info.$(OBJEXT)
  	@ cp ${OUT}/info.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}
--- 1907,1912 ----
*************** ${MID}/info.clisp: $(srcdir)/info.boot.p
*** 2022,2047 ****
  	  rm info.boot )
  
  
- ${OUT}/intfile.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/intfile.clisp 
- 	@ echo 552 making ${OUT}/intfile.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/intfile.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/intfile.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/intfile.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/intfile.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/intfile.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/intfile.clisp: $(srcdir)/intfile.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 553 making ${MID}/intfile.clisp from $(srcdir)/intfile.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/intfile.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/intfile.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/intfile.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm intfile.boot )
- 
- 
  ${OUT}/intint.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/intint.lisp
  	@ echo 555 making ${OUT}/intint.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/intint.lisp
  	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
--- 1932,1937 ----
*************** ${OUT}/intint.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/intint.l
*** 2053,2078 ****
  ${MID}/intint.lisp: $(srcdir)/intint.lisp.pamphlet
  	$(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$@ $<
  
- ${OUT}/int-top.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/int-top.clisp 
- 	@ echo 564 making ${OUT}/int-top.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/int-top.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/int-top.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/int-top.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/int-top.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/int-top.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/int-top.clisp: $(srcdir)/int-top.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 565 making ${MID}/int-top.clisp from $(srcdir)/int-top.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/int-top.boot $<; \
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/int-top.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/int-top.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm int-top.boot )
- 
- 
  ${OUT}/i-output.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/i-output.clisp 
  	@ echo 306 making ${OUT}/i-output.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/i-output.clisp
  	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
--- 1943,1948 ----
*************** ${MID}/lisplib.clisp: $(srcdir)/lisplib.
*** 2266,2291 ****
  	  rm lisplib.boot )
  
  
- ${OUT}/macex.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/macex.clisp
- 	@ echo 516 making ${OUT}/macex.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/macex.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/macex.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/macex.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/macex.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/macex.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/macex.clisp: $(srcdir)/macex.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 517 making ${MID}/macex.clisp from $(srcdir)/macex.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/macex.boot $<; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/macex.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/macex.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm macex.boot )
- 
- 
  ${OUT}/macros.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/macros.lisp
  	@ echo 63 making ${OUT}/macros.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/macros.lisp
  	@ ( cd ${MID} ; \
--- 2136,2141 ----
*************** ${MID}/monitor.lisp: $(srcdir)/monitor.l
*** 2421,2446 ****
  	@ echo 77 making ${MID}/monitor.lisp from $(srcdir)/monitor.lisp.pamphlet
  	$(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$@ $<
  
- ${OUT}/msg.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/msg.clisp 
- 	@ echo 534 making ${OUT}/msg.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/msg.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/msg.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/msg.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/msg.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/msg.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/msg.clisp: $(srcdir)/msg.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 535 making ${MID}/msg.clisp from $(srcdir)/msg.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/msg.boot $<; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/msg.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/msg.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm msg.boot )
- 
- 
  ${OUT}/msgdb.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/msgdb.clisp 
  	@ echo 345 making ${OUT}/msgdb.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/msgdb.clisp
  	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
--- 2271,2276 ----
*************** ${OUT}/obey.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/obey.${LIS
*** 3020,3045 ****
  ${MID}/obey.${LISP}: $(srcdir)/obey.lisp.pamphlet
  	$(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$@ $<
  
- ${OUT}/osyscmd.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/osyscmd.clisp  
- 	@ echo 567 making ${OUT}/osyscmd.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/osyscmd.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/osyscmd.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/osyscmd.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/osyscmd.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/osyscmd.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/osyscmd.clisp: $(srcdir)/osyscmd.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 568 making ${MID}/osyscmd.clisp from $(srcdir)/osyscmd.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/osyscmd.boot $<; \
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/osyscmd.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/osyscmd.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm osyscmd.boot )
- 
- 
  ${AUTO}/package.$(OBJEXT): ${OUT}/package.$(OBJEXT)
  	@ echo 370 making ${AUTO}/package.$(OBJEXT) from ${OUT}/package.$(OBJEXT)
  	@ cp ${OUT}/package.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}
--- 2850,2855 ----
*************** ${MID}/package.clisp: $(srcdir)/package.
*** 3065,3110 ****
  	  rm package.boot )
  
  
- ${OUT}/packtran.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/packtran.clisp  
- 	@ echo 570 making ${OUT}/packtran.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/packtran.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/packtran.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/packtran.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/packtran.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/packtran.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/packtran.clisp: $(srcdir)/packtran.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 571 making ${MID}/packtran.clisp from $(srcdir)/packtran.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/packtran.boot $< ;\
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/packtran.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/packtran.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm packtran.boot )
- 
- 
- ${OUT}/parini.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/parini.clisp 
- 	@ echo 549 making ${OUT}/parini.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/parini.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/parini.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/parini.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/parini.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/parini.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/parini.clisp: $(srcdir)/parini.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 550 making ${MID}/parini.clisp from $(srcdir)/parini.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/parini.boot $<; \
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/parini.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/parini.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm parini.boot )
- 
- 
  ${AUTO}/parse.$(OBJEXT): ${OUT}/parse.$(OBJEXT)
  	@ echo 374 making ${AUTO}/parse.$(OBJEXT) from ${OUT}/parse.$(OBJEXT)
  	@ cp ${OUT}/parse.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}
--- 2875,2880 ----
*************** ${MID}/pathname.clisp: $(srcdir)/pathnam
*** 3187,3252 ****
  	  rm pathname.boot )
  
  
- ${OUT}/pf2sex.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/pf2sex.clisp 
- 	@ echo 573 making ${OUT}/pf2sex.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/pf2sex.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/pf2sex.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/pf2sex.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/pf2sex.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/pf2sex.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/pf2sex.clisp: $(srcdir)/pf2sex.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 574 making ${MID}/pf2sex.clisp from $(srcdir)/pf2sex.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/pf2sex.boot $<; \
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/pf2sex.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/pf2sex.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm pf2sex.boot )
- 
- 
- ${OUT}/pile.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/pile.clisp 
- 	@ echo 510 making ${OUT}/pile.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/pile.clisp
- 	@  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	    echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/pile.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/pile.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	   else \
- 	    echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/pile.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/pile.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	   fi
- 
- ${MID}/pile.clisp: $(srcdir)/pile.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 511 making ${MID}/pile.clisp from $(srcdir)/pile.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/pile.boot $< ; \
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/pile.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/pile.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm pile.boot )
- 
- 
- ${OUT}/posit.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/posit.clisp 
- 	@ echo 540 making ${OUT}/posit.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/posit.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/posit.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/posit.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/posit.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/posit.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/posit.clisp: $(srcdir)/posit.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 541 making ${MID}/posit.clisp from $(srcdir)/posit.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/posit.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/posit.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/posit.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm posit.boot )
- 
- 
  ${AUTO}/postpar.$(OBJEXT): ${OUT}/postpar.$(OBJEXT)
  	@ echo 382 making ${AUTO}/postpar.$(OBJEXT) from ${OUT}/postpar.$(OBJEXT)
  	@ cp ${OUT}/postpar.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}
--- 2957,2962 ----
*************** ${MID}/pspad2.clisp: $(srcdir)/pspad2.bo
*** 3383,3428 ****
  	  rm pspad2.boot )
  
  
- ${OUT}/ptrees.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/ptrees.clisp 
- 	@ echo 519 making ${OUT}/ptrees.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/ptrees.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/ptrees.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/ptrees.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/ptrees.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/ptrees.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/ptrees.clisp: $(srcdir)/ptrees.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 520 making ${MID}/ptrees.clisp from $(srcdir)/ptrees.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/ptrees.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/ptrees.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/ptrees.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm ptrees.boot )
- 
- 
- ${OUT}/ptrop.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/ptrop.clisp 
- 	@ echo 522 making ${OUT}/ptrop.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/ptrop.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/ptrop.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/ptrop.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/ptrop.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/ptrop.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/ptrop.clisp: $(srcdir)/ptrop.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 523 making ${MID}/ptrop.clisp from $(srcdir)/ptrop.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/ptrop.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/ptrop.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/ptrop.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm ptrop.boot )
- 
- 
  ${OUT}/record.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/record.clisp 
  	@ echo 446 making ${OUT}/record.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/record.clisp
  	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
--- 3093,3098 ----
*************** ${MID}/rulesets.clisp: $(srcdir)/ruleset
*** 3465,3510 ****
  	  rm rulesets.boot )
  
  
- ${OUT}/scan.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/scan.clisp
- 	@ echo 507 making ${OUT}/scan.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/scan.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/scan.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/scan.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/scan.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/scan.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/scan.clisp: $(srcdir)/scan.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 508 making ${MID}/scan.clisp from $(srcdir)/scan.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/scan.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/scan.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/scan.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm scan.boot )
- 
- 
- ${OUT}/serror.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/serror.clisp 
- 	@ echo 537 making ${OUT}/serror.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/serror.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/serror.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/serror.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/serror.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/serror.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/serror.clisp: $(srcdir)/serror.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 538 making ${MID}/serror.clisp from $(srcdir)/serror.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/serror.boot $<; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/serror.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/serror.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm serror.boot )
- 
- 
  ${OUT}/server.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/server.clisp 
  	@ echo 390 making ${OUT}/server.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/server.clisp
  	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
--- 3135,3140 ----
*************** ${MID}/setvart.clisp: $(srcdir)/setvart.
*** 3579,3604 ****
  	  rm setvart.boot )
  
  
- ${OUT}/sfsfun.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/sfsfun.clisp 
- 	@ echo 576 making ${OUT}/sfsfun.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/sfsfun.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/sfsfun.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/sfsfun.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/sfsfun.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/sfsfun.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/sfsfun.clisp: $(srcdir)/sfsfun.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 577 making ${MID}/sfsfun.clisp from $(srcdir)/sfsfun.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/sfsfun.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/sfsfun.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/sfsfun.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm sfsfun.boot )
- 
- 
  ${OUT}/sfsfun-l.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/sfsfun-l.lisp
  	@ echo 561 making ${OUT}/sfsfun-l.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/sfsfun-l.lisp
  	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
--- 3209,3214 ----
*************** ${AUTO}/showimp.$(OBJEXT): ${OUT}/showim
*** 3614,3639 ****
  	@ echo 579 making ${AUTO}/showimp.$(OBJEXT) from ${OUT}/showimp.$(OBJEXT)
  	@ cp ${OUT}/showimp.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}
  
- ${OUT}/showimp.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/showimp.clisp 
- 	@ echo 580 making ${OUT}/showimp.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/showimp.clisp
- 	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn  (compile-file "${MID}/showimp.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/showimp.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn  (compile-file "${MID}/showimp.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/showimp.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi )
- 
- ${MID}/showimp.clisp: $(srcdir)/showimp.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 581 making ${MID}/showimp.lisp from $(srcdir)/showimp.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/showimp.boot $<; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "showimp.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "showimp.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm showimp.boot )
- 
  
  ${OUT}/simpbool.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/simpbool.clisp 
  	@ echo 400 making ${OUT}/simpbool.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/simpbool.clisp
--- 3224,3229 ----
*************** ${OUT}/util.${LISP}: ${MID}/util.lisp
*** 3851,3876 ****
  ${MID}/util.lisp: $(srcdir)/util.lisp.pamphlet
  	$(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$@ $<
  
- ${OUT}/varini.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/varini.clisp 
- 	@ echo 546 making ${OUT}/varini.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/varini.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/varini.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/varini.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/varini.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/varini.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- ${MID}/varini.clisp: $(srcdir)/varini.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 547 making ${MID}/varini.clisp from $(srcdir)/varini.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/varini.boot $< ;\
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/varini.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/varini.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm varini.boot )
- 
- 
  ${OUT}/vmlisp.$(OBJEXT): $(MID)/vmlisp.lisp
  	@ echo 136 making ${OUT}/vmlisp.$(OBJEXT) from $<
  	@ (if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
--- 3441,3446 ----
*** src/interp/Makefile.pamphlet	(revision 15903)
--- src/interp/Makefile.pamphlet	(local)
*************** into the {\bf OUT} directory. This is sy
*** 47,55 ****
  machine-generated code and belongs in the {\bf \$SPAD/obj} subtree.
  
  The dvi files will be generated from the pamphlet files in the
! final ship doc/src/ directory. Since they are system independent 
  but machine generated and part of the final ship they will exist 
! in the [[$(axiom_target_docdir)/src/interp]] directory.
  
  <<environment>>=
  IN=${SRC}/interp
--- 47,55 ----
  machine-generated code and belongs in the {\bf \$SPAD/obj} subtree.
  
  The dvi files will be generated from the pamphlet files in the
! final ship \File{doc/src/} directory. Since they are system independent 
  but machine generated and part of the final ship they will exist 
! in the \File{\$(axiom_target_docdir)/src/interp/} directory.
  
  <<environment>>=
  IN=${SRC}/interp
*************** OUT=${OBJ}/${SYS}/interp
*** 58,63 ****
--- 58,69 ----
  DOC=$(axiom_target_docdir)/src/interp
  BOOK=$(axiom_target_docdir)
  
+ # Command to translate Boot to Common Lisp
+ BOOT_TO_LISP = echo '(boottran::boottocl "$<")' | $(BOOTSYS) >> $(TMP)/trace
+ 
+ # Command to translate Common Lisp to native object code
+ COMPILE_LISP = echo '(compile-file "$<" :output-file "$@")' | $(DEPSYS) \
+ 		    >> $(TMP)/trace
  @
  
  In order to minimize the size of the Axiom image at load time
*************** and {\bf setq.lisp}. The {\bf bootfuns.l
*** 178,183 ****
--- 184,193 ----
  contains forward references for {\bf boot} code. The {\bf setq.lisp}
  file contains constant initialization code which gains nothing
  by being compiled.
+ 
+ The value of the variable [[AXIOMsys_boot_sources]] is the (currently
+ partial) list of Boot source files that make up the interpreter.
+ 
  <<environment>>=
  OBJS=	${OUT}/vmlisp.$(OBJEXT)	${OUT}/hash.$(OBJEXT)	\
  	${OUT}/bootfuns.${LISP}	${OUT}/macros.$(OBJEXT)	\
*************** OBJS=	${OUT}/vmlisp.$(OBJEXT)	${OUT}/has
*** 234,239 ****
--- 244,265 ----
  	${OUT}/union.$(OBJEXT)       ${OUT}/daase.$(OBJEXT)  	\
  	${OUT}/fortcall.$(OBJEXT)
  
+ 
+ AXIOMsys_boot_sources = astr.boot alql.boot buildom.boot cattable.boot \
+ 	cformat.boot clam.boot clammed.boot compat.boot compress.boot \
+ 	cparse.boot cstream.boot database.boot dq.boot format.boot \
+ 	g-boot.boot g-cndata.boot g-error.boot g-opt.boot g-timer.boot \
+ 	g-util.boot hypertex.boot i-analy.boot i-code.boot i-coerce.boot \
+ 	i-coerfn.boot i-eval.boot i-funsel.boot i-intern.boot i-map.boot \
+ 	i-output.boot i-resolv.boot i-spec1.boot i-spec2.boot \
+ 	i-syscmd.boot i-toplev.boot i-util.boot incl.boot int-top.boot \
+ 	intfile.boot lisplib.boot macex.boot match.boot msg.boot \
+ 	msgdb.boot newfort.boot nrunfast.boot nrungo.boot nrunopt.boot \
+ 	nruntime.boot osyscmd.boot packtran.boot pathname.boot \
+ 	pf2sex.boot pile.boot posit.boot ptrees.boot ptrop.boot \
+ 	record.boot rulesets.boot scan.boot serror.boot server.boot \
+ 	setvars.boot sfsfun.boot simpbool.boot slam.boot template.boot \
+ 	termrw.boot trace.boot fortcall.boot
  @
  
  Before we save the {\bf SAVESYS} image we need to run some
*************** exist.
*** 392,397 ****
--- 418,448 ----
  
  @
  
+ \section{Codes from Pamphlets}
+ 
+ As noted earlier, the Boot codes are first extrated from the pamphlet
+ files:
+ <<extract source codes>>=
+ %.boot: $(srcdir)/%.boot.pamphlet
+ 	$(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$@ $<
+ @
+ 
+ The extracted Boot codes are then fed into [[bootsys]] which translates
+ them into Common Lisp codes:
+ <<extract source codes>>=
+ .PRECIOUS: %.clisp
+ %.clisp: %.boot
+ 	$(BOOT_TO_LISP)
+ @
+ 
+ The resulting Common Lips codes are, in turn, compiled to object codes
+ using the [[depsys]] image.
+ <<extract source codes>>=
+ .PRECIOUS: $(OUT)/%.$(OBJEXT)
+ $(OUT)/%.$(OBJEXT): %.clisp
+ 	$(COMPILE_LISP)
+ @
+ 
  \section{Proclaim optimization}
  GCL, and possibly other common lisps, can generate much better
  code if the function argument types and return values are proclaimed.
*************** ${MID}/unlisp.lisp: $(srcdir)/unlisp.lis
*** 4794,5224 ****
  	$(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$@ $<
  @
  
- \subsection{incl.boot}
- <<incl.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/incl.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/incl.clisp 
- 	@ echo 504 making ${OUT}/incl.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/incl.clisp
- 	@  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	    echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/incl.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/incl.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	   else \
- 	    echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/incl.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/incl.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	   fi
- 
- @
- <<incl.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/incl.clisp: $(srcdir)/incl.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 505 making ${MID}/incl.clisp from $(srcdir)/incl.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/incl.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/incl.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/incl.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm incl.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{scan.boot}
- <<scan.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/scan.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/scan.clisp
- 	@ echo 507 making ${OUT}/scan.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/scan.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/scan.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/scan.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/scan.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/scan.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<scan.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/scan.clisp: $(srcdir)/scan.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 508 making ${MID}/scan.clisp from $(srcdir)/scan.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/scan.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/scan.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/scan.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm scan.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{pile.boot}
- <<pile.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/pile.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/pile.clisp 
- 	@ echo 510 making ${OUT}/pile.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/pile.clisp
- 	@  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	    echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/pile.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/pile.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	   else \
- 	    echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/pile.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/pile.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	   fi
- 
- @
- <<pile.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/pile.clisp: $(srcdir)/pile.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 511 making ${MID}/pile.clisp from $(srcdir)/pile.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/pile.boot $< ; \
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/pile.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/pile.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm pile.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{cparse.boot}
- <<cparse.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/cparse.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/cparse.clisp
- 	@ echo 513 making ${OUT}/cparse.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/cparse.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/cparse.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/cparse.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/cparse.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/cparse.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<cparse.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/cparse.clisp: $(srcdir)/cparse.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 514 making ${MID}/cparse.clisp from $(srcdir)/cparse.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/cparse.boot $< ;\
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/cparse.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/cparse.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm cparse.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{macex.boot}
- <<macex.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/macex.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/macex.clisp
- 	@ echo 516 making ${OUT}/macex.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/macex.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/macex.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/macex.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/macex.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/macex.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<macex.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/macex.clisp: $(srcdir)/macex.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 517 making ${MID}/macex.clisp from $(srcdir)/macex.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/macex.boot $<; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/macex.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/macex.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm macex.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{ptrees.boot}
- <<ptrees.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/ptrees.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/ptrees.clisp 
- 	@ echo 519 making ${OUT}/ptrees.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/ptrees.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/ptrees.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/ptrees.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/ptrees.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/ptrees.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<ptrees.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/ptrees.clisp: $(srcdir)/ptrees.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 520 making ${MID}/ptrees.clisp from $(srcdir)/ptrees.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/ptrees.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/ptrees.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/ptrees.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm ptrees.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{ptrop.boot}
- <<ptrop.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/ptrop.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/ptrop.clisp 
- 	@ echo 522 making ${OUT}/ptrop.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/ptrop.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/ptrop.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/ptrop.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/ptrop.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/ptrop.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<ptrop.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/ptrop.clisp: $(srcdir)/ptrop.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 523 making ${MID}/ptrop.clisp from $(srcdir)/ptrop.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/ptrop.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/ptrop.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/ptrop.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm ptrop.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{dq.boot}
- <<dq.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/dq.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/dq.clisp 
- 	@ echo 525 making ${OUT}/dq.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/dq.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/dq.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/dq.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/dq.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/dq.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<dq.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/dq.clisp: $(srcdir)/dq.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 526 making ${MID}/dq.clisp from $(srcdir)/dq.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/dq.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/dq.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/dq.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm dq.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{cstream.boot}
- <<cstream.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/cstream.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/cstream.clisp 
- 	@ echo 528 making ${OUT}/cstream.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/cstream.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/cstream.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/cstream.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/cstream.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/cstream.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<cstream.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/cstream.clisp: $(srcdir)/cstream.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 529 making ${MID}/cstream.clisp from $(srcdir)/cstream.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/cstream.boot $<; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/cstream.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/cstream.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm cstream.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{astr.boot}
- <<astr.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/astr.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/astr.clisp 
- 	@ echo 531 making ${OUT}/astr.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/astr.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/astr.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/astr.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/astr.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/astr.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<astr.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/astr.clisp: $(srcdir)/astr.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 532 making ${MID}/astr.clisp from $(srcdir)/astr.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/astr.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/astr.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/astr.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm astr.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{msg.boot}
- <<msg.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/msg.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/msg.clisp 
- 	@ echo 534 making ${OUT}/msg.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/msg.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/msg.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/msg.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/msg.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/msg.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<msg.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/msg.clisp: $(srcdir)/msg.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 535 making ${MID}/msg.clisp from $(srcdir)/msg.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/msg.boot $<; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/msg.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/msg.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm msg.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{serror.boot}
- <<serror.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/serror.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/serror.clisp 
- 	@ echo 537 making ${OUT}/serror.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/serror.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/serror.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/serror.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/serror.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/serror.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<serror.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/serror.clisp: $(srcdir)/serror.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 538 making ${MID}/serror.clisp from $(srcdir)/serror.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/serror.boot $<; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/serror.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/serror.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm serror.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{posit.boot}
- <<posit.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/posit.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/posit.clisp 
- 	@ echo 540 making ${OUT}/posit.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/posit.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/posit.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/posit.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/posit.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/posit.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<posit.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/posit.clisp: $(srcdir)/posit.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 541 making ${MID}/posit.clisp from $(srcdir)/posit.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/posit.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/posit.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/posit.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm posit.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{cformat.boot}
- <<cformat.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/cformat.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/cformat.clisp 
- 	@ echo 543 making ${OUT}/cformat.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/cformat.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/cformat.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/cformat.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/cformat.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/cformat.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<cformat.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/cformat.clisp: $(srcdir)/cformat.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 544 making ${MID}/cformat.clisp from $(srcdir)/cformat.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/cformat.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/cformat.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/cformat.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm cformat.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{varini.boot}
- <<varini.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/varini.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/varini.clisp 
- 	@ echo 546 making ${OUT}/varini.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/varini.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/varini.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/varini.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/varini.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/varini.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<varini.clisp  (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/varini.clisp: $(srcdir)/varini.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 547 making ${MID}/varini.clisp from $(srcdir)/varini.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/varini.boot $< ;\
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/varini.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/varini.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm varini.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{parini.boot}
- <<parini.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/parini.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/parini.clisp 
- 	@ echo 549 making ${OUT}/parini.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/parini.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/parini.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/parini.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/parini.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/parini.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<parini.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/parini.clisp: $(srcdir)/parini.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 550 making ${MID}/parini.clisp from $(srcdir)/parini.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/parini.boot $<; \
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/parini.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/parini.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm parini.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{intfile.boot}
- <<intfile.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/intfile.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/intfile.clisp 
- 	@ echo 552 making ${OUT}/intfile.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/intfile.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/intfile.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/intfile.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/intfile.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/intfile.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<intfile.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/intfile.clisp: $(srcdir)/intfile.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 553 making ${MID}/intfile.clisp from $(srcdir)/intfile.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/intfile.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/intfile.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/intfile.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm intfile.boot )
- 
- @
- 
  \subsection{intint.lisp}
  this is the code that links the new parser to the interpreter
  <<intint.o (OUT from MID)>>=
--- 4845,4850 ----
*************** ${MID}/sfsfun-l.lisp: $(srcdir)/sfsfun-l
*** 5268,5398 ****
  	$(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$@ $<
  @
  
- \subsection{int-top.boot}
- <<int-top.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/int-top.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/int-top.clisp 
- 	@ echo 564 making ${OUT}/int-top.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/int-top.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/int-top.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/int-top.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/int-top.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/int-top.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<int-top.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/int-top.clisp: $(srcdir)/int-top.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 565 making ${MID}/int-top.clisp from $(srcdir)/int-top.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/int-top.boot $<; \
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/int-top.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/int-top.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm int-top.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{osyscmd.boot}
- <<osyscmd.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/osyscmd.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/osyscmd.clisp  
- 	@ echo 567 making ${OUT}/osyscmd.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/osyscmd.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/osyscmd.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/osyscmd.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/osyscmd.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/osyscmd.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<osyscmd.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/osyscmd.clisp: $(srcdir)/osyscmd.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 568 making ${MID}/osyscmd.clisp from $(srcdir)/osyscmd.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/osyscmd.boot $<; \
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/osyscmd.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/osyscmd.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm osyscmd.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{packtran.boot}
- <<packtran.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/packtran.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/packtran.clisp  
- 	@ echo 570 making ${OUT}/packtran.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/packtran.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/packtran.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/packtran.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/packtran.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/packtran.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<packtran.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/packtran.clisp: $(srcdir)/packtran.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 571 making ${MID}/packtran.clisp from $(srcdir)/packtran.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/packtran.boot $< ;\
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/packtran.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/packtran.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm packtran.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{pf2sex.boot}
- <<pf2sex.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/pf2sex.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/pf2sex.clisp 
- 	@ echo 573 making ${OUT}/pf2sex.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/pf2sex.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/pf2sex.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/pf2sex.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/pf2sex.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/pf2sex.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<pf2sex.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/pf2sex.clisp: $(srcdir)/pf2sex.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 574 making ${MID}/pf2sex.clisp from $(srcdir)/pf2sex.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/pf2sex.boot $<; \
- 	  cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/pf2sex.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/pf2sex.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm pf2sex.boot )
- 
- @
- 
- \subsection{sfsfun.boot}
- <<sfsfun.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/sfsfun.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/sfsfun.clisp 
- 	@ echo 576 making ${OUT}/sfsfun.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/sfsfun.clisp
- 	@ if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/sfsfun.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/sfsfun.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (compile-file "${MID}/sfsfun.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/sfsfun.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi
- 
- @
- <<sfsfun.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/sfsfun.clisp: $(srcdir)/sfsfun.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 577 making ${MID}/sfsfun.clisp from $(srcdir)/sfsfun.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/sfsfun.boot $< ; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/sfsfun.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS}  ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "${MID}/sfsfun.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${BOOTSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm sfsfun.boot )
- 
- @
- 
  \subsection{showimp.boot}
  system level hacking files
  <<showimp.o (AUTO from OUT)>>=
--- 4894,4899 ----
*************** ${AUTO}/showimp.$(OBJEXT): ${OUT}/showim
*** 5401,5430 ****
  	@ cp ${OUT}/showimp.$(OBJEXT) ${AUTO}
  
  @
- <<showimp.o (OUT from MID)>>=
- ${OUT}/showimp.$(OBJEXT): ${MID}/showimp.clisp 
- 	@ echo 580 making ${OUT}/showimp.$(OBJEXT) from ${MID}/showimp.clisp
- 	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn  (compile-file "${MID}/showimp.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/showimp.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn  (compile-file "${MID}/showimp.clisp" :output-file "${OUT}/showimp.$(OBJEXT)") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi )
- 
- @
- <<showimp.clisp (MID from IN)>>=
- ${MID}/showimp.clisp: $(srcdir)/showimp.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ echo 581 making ${MID}/showimp.lisp from $(srcdir)/showimp.boot.pamphlet
- 	@ ($(axiom_build_document) --tangle --output=$(MID)/showimp.boot $<; \
- 	   cd ${MID} ; \
- 	  if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "showimp.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} ; \
- 	  else \
- 	   echo '(progn (boottran::boottocl "showimp.boot") (${BYE}))' | ${DEPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
- 	  fi ; \
- 	  rm showimp.boot )
- 
- @
  
  \subsection{hashcode.boot}
  files for the new compiler
--- 4902,4907 ----
*************** $(AUTO):
*** 5750,5755 ****
--- 5227,5233 ----
  $(MID):
  	$(mkinstalldirs) $@
  
+ <<extract source codes>>
  
  mostlyclean-local: ;
  
*************** distclean-local: clean-local
*** 5771,5779 ****
  <<as.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<as.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<astr.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<astr.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<ax.o (AUTO from OUT)>>
  <<ax.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<ax.clisp (MID from IN)>>
--- 5249,5254 ----
*************** distclean-local: clean-local
*** 5854,5862 ****
  <<c-doc.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<c-doc.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<cformat.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<cformat.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<cfuns.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<cfuns.lisp (MID from IN)>>
  
--- 5329,5334 ----
*************** distclean-local: clean-local
*** 5883,5894 ****
  <<construc.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<construc.lisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<cparse.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<cparse.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
- <<cstream.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<cstream.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<c-util.o (AUTO from OUT)>>
  <<c-util.lisp (OUT from IN)>>
  <<c-util.o (OUT from MID)>>
--- 5355,5360 ----
*************** distclean-local: clean-local
*** 5914,5922 ****
  <<define.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<define.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<dq.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<dq.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<fname.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<fname.lisp (MID from IN)>>
  
--- 5380,5385 ----
*************** distclean-local: clean-local
*** 6017,6038 ****
  <<i-map.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<i-map.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<incl.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<incl.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<info.o (AUTO from OUT)>>
  <<info.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<info.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<intfile.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<intfile.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<intint.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<intint.lisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<int-top.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<int-top.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<i-output.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<i-output.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
--- 5480,5492 ----
*************** distclean-local: clean-local
*** 6061,6069 ****
  <<lisplib.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<lisplib.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<macex.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<macex.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<macros.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<macros.lisp (MID from IN)>>
  
--- 5515,5520 ----
*************** distclean-local: clean-local
*** 6090,6098 ****
  <<monitor.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<monitor.lisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<msg.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<msg.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<msgdb.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<msgdb.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
--- 5541,5546 ----
*************** distclean-local: clean-local
*** 6192,6210 ****
  <<obey.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<obey.lisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<osyscmd.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<osyscmd.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<package.o (AUTO from OUT)>>
  <<package.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<package.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<packtran.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<packtran.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
- <<parini.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<parini.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<parse.o (AUTO from OUT)>>
  <<parse.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<parse.lisp (OUT from IN)>>
--- 5640,5649 ----
*************** distclean-local: clean-local
*** 6221,6235 ****
  <<pathname.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<pathname.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<pf2sex.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<pf2sex.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
- <<pile.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<pile.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
- <<posit.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<posit.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<postpar.o (AUTO from OUT)>>
  <<postpar.lisp (OUT from IN)>>
  <<postpar.o (OUT from MID)>>
--- 5660,5665 ----
*************** distclean-local: clean-local
*** 6257,6280 ****
  <<pspad2.o (AUTO from MID)>>
  <<pspad2.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<ptrees.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<ptrees.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
- <<ptrop.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<ptrop.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<record.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<record.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
  <<rulesets.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<rulesets.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<scan.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<scan.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
- <<serror.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<serror.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<server.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<server.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
--- 5687,5698 ----
*************** distclean-local: clean-local
*** 6288,6302 ****
  <<setvart.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<setvart.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<sfsfun.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<sfsfun.clisp (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<sfsfun-l.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<sfsfun-l.lisp (MID from IN)>>
  
  <<showimp.o (AUTO from OUT)>>
- <<showimp.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<showimp.clisp (MID from IN)>>
  
  <<simpbool.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<simpbool.clisp (MID from IN)>>
--- 5706,5715 ----
*************** distclean-local: clean-local
*** 6340,6348 ****
  <<util.lisp (OUT from MID)>>
  <<util.lisp (MID from IN)>>
  
- <<varini.o (OUT from MID)>>
- <<varini.clisp  (MID from IN)>>
- 
  <<vmlisp.o (OUT from MID)>>
  <<vmlisp.lisp (MID from IN)>>
  
--- 5753,5758 ----
*** src/interp/debugsys.lisp.pamphlet	(revision 15903)
--- src/interp/debugsys.lisp.pamphlet	(local)
*************** loaded by hand we need to establish a va
*** 90,112 ****
        (thesymb "/int/interp/macros.lisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/unlisp.lisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/setq.lisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/astr.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/bits.lisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/alql.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/buildom.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/cattable.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/cformat.clisp")
        (thesymb (concatenate 'string "/obj/" *sys* "/interp/cfuns.o"))
        (thesymb "/int/interp/clam.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/clammed.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/comp.lisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/compat.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/compress.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/cparse.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/cstream.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/database.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/debug.lisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/dq.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/fname.lisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/format.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/g-boot.clisp")
--- 90,112 ----
        (thesymb "/int/interp/macros.lisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/unlisp.lisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/setq.lisp")
!       "astr.clisp"
        (thesymb "/int/interp/bits.lisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/alql.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/buildom.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/cattable.clisp")
!       "cformat.clisp"
        (thesymb (concatenate 'string "/obj/" *sys* "/interp/cfuns.o"))
        (thesymb "/int/interp/clam.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/clammed.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/comp.lisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/compat.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/compress.clisp")
!       "cparse.clisp"
!       "cstream.clisp"
        (thesymb "/int/interp/database.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/debug.lisp")
!       "dq.clisp"
        (thesymb "/int/interp/fname.lisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/format.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/g-boot.clisp")
*************** loaded by hand we need to establish a va
*** 132,145 ****
        (thesymb "/int/interp/i-syscmd.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/i-toplev.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/i-util.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/incl.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/int-top.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/intfile.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/lisplib.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/macex.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/match.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/monitor.lisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/msg.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/msgdb.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/nci.lisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/newaux.lisp")
--- 132,145 ----
        (thesymb "/int/interp/i-syscmd.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/i-toplev.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/i-util.clisp")
!       "incl.clisp"
!       "int-top.clisp"
!       "intfile.clisp"
        (thesymb "/int/interp/lisplib.clisp")
!       "macex.clisp"
        (thesymb "/int/interp/match.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/monitor.lisp")
!       "msg.clisp"
        (thesymb "/int/interp/msgdb.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/nci.lisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/newaux.lisp")
*************** loaded by hand we need to establish a va
*** 149,171 ****
        (thesymb "/int/interp/nrungo.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/nrunopt.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/nruntime.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/osyscmd.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/packtran.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/pathname.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/pf2sex.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/pile.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/posit.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/property.lisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/ptrees.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/ptrop.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/record.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/rulesets.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/scan.clisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/serror.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/server.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/setvars.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/sfsfun-l.lisp")
!       (thesymb "/int/interp/sfsfun.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/simpbool.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/slam.clisp")
        (thesymb (concatenate 'string "/obj/" *sys* "/interp/sockio.o"))
--- 149,171 ----
        (thesymb "/int/interp/nrungo.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/nrunopt.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/nruntime.clisp")
!       "osyscmd.clisp"
!       "packtran.clisp"
        (thesymb "/int/interp/pathname.clisp")
!       "pf2sex.clisp"
!       "pile.clisp"
!       "posit.clisp"
        (thesymb "/int/interp/property.lisp")
!       "ptrees.clisp"
!       "ptrop.clisp"
        (thesymb "/int/interp/record.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/rulesets.clisp")
!       "scan.clisp"
!       "serror.clisp"
        (thesymb "/int/interp/server.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/setvars.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/sfsfun-l.lisp")
!       "sfsfun.clisp"
        (thesymb "/int/interp/simpbool.clisp")
        (thesymb "/int/interp/slam.clisp")
        (thesymb (concatenate 'string "/obj/" *sys* "/interp/sockio.o"))
*************** loaded by hand we need to establish a va
*** 183,190 ****
      (thesymb "/int/interp/foam_l.lisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/axext_l.lisp"))
    (list
!     (thesymb "/int/interp/varini.clisp")
!     (thesymb "/int/interp/parini.clisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/setvart.clisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/intint.lisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/xrun.clisp")
--- 183,190 ----
      (thesymb "/int/interp/foam_l.lisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/axext_l.lisp"))
    (list
!     "varini.clisp"
!     "parini.clisp"
      (thesymb "/int/interp/setvart.clisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/intint.lisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/xrun.clisp")
*************** loaded by hand we need to establish a va
*** 227,233 ****
      (thesymb "/int/interp/ht-root.clisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/br-con.clisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/br-data.clisp")
!     (thesymb "/int/interp/showimp.clisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/br-op1.clisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/br-op2.clisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/br-search.clisp")
--- 227,233 ----
      (thesymb "/int/interp/ht-root.clisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/br-con.clisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/br-data.clisp")
!     "showimp.clisp"
      (thesymb "/int/interp/br-op1.clisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/br-op2.clisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/br-search.clisp")

--k9QER2PV000317.1161872861/pine.cs.tamu.edu--



From MAILER-DAEMON Thu Oct 26 13:30:22 2006
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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and pty
Date: Thu, 26 Oct 2006 13:30:10 -0400
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Thread-Topic: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and pty
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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
To: "Waldek Hebisch" <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
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Waldek,

On Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:55 AM you wrote:
>=20
> Vanuxem Gr=E9gory wrote:
> > ...=20
> > See http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/189GraphicsDoesNotWorkOnDebian
> >=20
>=20
> I see, I am not the first with this problem.  Concerning the patch:
> while technically it seem to work (I tested a slight variation of
> it), it has many problems:
>=20
> 1) the patch duplicates code (my variation avoids duplication)
> 2) on Linux there is 'openpty' library function which is smart
>    enough to try first '/dev/ptmx' and if needed fall back to
>    legacy pty's. 'openpty' also handles extra issues (like=20
>    changing access rights to legacy pty's) -- we probably should
>    use it.
> 3) in general 'openpty.c.pamphlet' is messy and the patch from
>    wiki only adds to this mess
>=20

I think is would be a worthwhile for someone knowledgeable (you?)
to spend some time to improve openpty. Using the standard Linux
openpty library sounds like a good idea. Axiom's replacement for
readline - a program called clef - requires this interface so
standardizing openpty should help improve the ability to build
on non-standard linux platforms. Unfortunately, as far as I know
pty is available on Windows. :(

The pty interface is also an important way for an external program
to reliably interact with the whole group of Axiom processes started
by sman (the normal 'axiom' command) instead of just AXIOMsys. This
is important for programs  like TeXmacs, the Axiom Wiki and Sage.
With the exception of Sage, currently these external programs are
limited to only using pipes, Pipes do not work properly when combined
with another external shell such as the X-windows virtual frame
buffer. Having Axiom work reliably with a standard interface such
as Expect for example, would make it much easier to offer Axiom
graphics embedded in these alternate user interfaces.

My experience so far with Sage, which uses the Expect interface,
is that Axiom's pty interface does not always do what one "expects"
... :) Maybe standardizing the pty interface will help.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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To: Colin Turner <c.turner@ulster.ac.uk>
References: <20061019114753.3598.94306.reportbug@einstein.ulster.ac.uk>
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Greetings!

OK, just double checked with the latest 20050901-7, and I cannot
reproduce.  I think this must be come xserver/configuration problem.
There is an axiom wiki for frequently encountered problems.  Can you
identify anything there with something similar?  Can you try asking at
<axiom-developer@nongnu.org>?

Take care,

Colin Turner <c.turner@ulster.ac.uk> writes:

> Package: axiom
> Followup-For: Bug #328480
> 
> 
> I'm still experiencing this bug in version 20050901-6.
> As before no input in the areas in hyperdoc is accepted.
> 
> CT.
> 
> 
> 
> -- System Information:
> Debian Release: testing/unstable
>   APT prefers testing
>   APT policy: (990, 'testing'), (500, 'unstable'), (500, 'stable')
> Architecture: i386 (i686)
> Shell:  /bin/sh linked to /bin/bash
> Kernel: Linux 2.6.17-2-486
> Locale: LANG=en_GB.UTF-8, LC_CTYPE=en_GB.UTF-8 (charmap=UTF-8)
> 
> Versions of packages axiom depends on:
> ii  axiom-databases           20050901-6     A general purpose computer algebra
> ii  libc6                     2.3.6.ds1-4    GNU C Library: Shared libraries
> ii  libgmp3c2                 2:4.2.1+dfsg-4 Multiprecision arithmetic library
> ii  libncurses5               5.5-3          Shared libraries for terminal hand
> ii  libreadline5              5.1-9          GNU readline and history libraries
> 
> Versions of packages axiom recommends:
> ii  axiom-doc                     20050901-6 A general purpose computer algebra
> ii  axiom-graphics                20050901-6 A general purpose computer algebra
> ii  axiom-hypertex                20050901-6 A general purpose computer algebra
> ii  axiom-source                  20050901-6 A general purpose computer algebra
> 
> -- no debconf information
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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I believe there was a reported issue with hyperdoc input.
Check to see if you have num-lock enabled.

Tim



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: [Gcl-devel] Problems with gcl 2.6.8 and
	agraphics in Axiom
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Greetings!  This fixes it for me:

sockio.lisp.pamphlet:

make 

  (defentry sock_get_float (int) (double "sock_get_float"))
  (defentry sock_send_float (int float) (int "sock_send_float"))

into 

  (defentry sock_get_float (int) (double "sock_get_float"))
  (defentry sock_send_float (int double) (int "sock_send_float"))

as per the prototype in sockio-c.c.pamphlet.

2.6.8 is more accurate about defentry prototypes.

Will release a Debian 20050901-8 with this in.

Separately, The hypertex ptyopen area on Debian is solved by

mount -t devpts devpts /dev/pts

as on one of the wiki pages, and, if necessary,

mount -o bind /dev/pts /unstable_chroot/dev/pts

Take care,


"Vanuxem Gregory" <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr> writes:

> Forwarding to axiom-developer mailing list.
> 
> > -----Message d'origine-----
> > De : gcl-devel-bounces+g.vanuxem=wanadoo.fr@gnu.org 
> > [mailto:gcl-devel-bounces+g.vanuxem=wanadoo.fr@gnu.org]De la part 
> > de Vadim V. Zhytnikov
> > Envoye : mardi 24 octobre 2006 20:23
> > A : GCL List
> > Objet : [Gcl-devel] Problems with gcl 2.6.8 and agraphics in Axiom
> > 
> > 
> > Hi!
> > 
> > I have some troubles with axiom and recent versions gcl 2.6.8.
> > I have tried to build axiom releases of April 2006 and
> > September 2006 with various gcl 2.6.8 snapshots:
> > 
> > 1. gcl-2.6.8pre.tgz in Axiom CVS
> > 2. gcl-2.6.8pre2.tgz in Axiom CVS
> > 3. gcl 2.6.8 CVS October 8, 2006
> > 
> > In all combinations build is OK and Axiom
> > seems to be in workable state.  But with newer
> > gcl versions 2 and 3 I have troubles with graphics.
> > Whenever I try to plot anything 2d or 3d plot
> > windows pops up but it is blank. I see only
> > plotted function name but graphics itself is
> > missing.  No any error messages of warnings.
> > I'm almost certain that something is wrong with
> > recent gcl 2.6.8 since problem exist with both
> > Axiom versions and gcl 2 and 3 but it disappears
> > if I build Axiom with older gcl 2.6.8 (1 above).
> > 
> > Unfortunately I had no time to investigate problem
> > in more details.  Maybe anybody has a good idea
> > how to debug such peculiar situation?
> > 
> > With best regards,
> > 
> > Vadim
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> >       Vadim V. Zhytnikov
> > 
> >        <vvzhy@mail.ru>
> >       <vvzhy@netorn.ru>
> > 
> > 
> > _______________________________________________
> > Gcl-devel mailing list
> > Gcl-devel@gnu.org
> > http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gcl-devel
> > 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Gcl-devel mailing list
> Gcl-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gcl-devel
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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To: Tom Hargreaves <hex@freezone.co.uk>
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From: Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com>
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Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org, control@bugs.debian.org, 346552@bugs.debian.org
Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: Bug#346552: naive methods of exiting axiom
	can blow up catastrophically
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forwarded 346552 <axiom-developer@nongnu.org>
thanks

Greetings!  Can any on the axiom-developer list help with this one?
It concerns the interaction of sman with GCL's terminal input
processing. 

Take care,

Tom Hargreaves <hex@freezone.co.uk> writes:

> Package: axiom
> Version: 20050901-4
> Severity: minor
> 
> Typing ^D\n^C\n after starting axiom produces the following text
> repeated indefinitely:
> 
>   1) -> 
>    >> System error:
>    free(3) error.
> 
> Hitting ^C again changes the error text but not the infinite loop, and
> the only way to quit at that point appears to be ^\.
> 
> This sometimes happens when pressing ^C several times (without ^D),
> but I haven't been able to reproduce it consistently (whereas ^D\n^C\n
> dies every time).
> 
> Typing ^D\n several times also produces strange results, including the following:
> 
>    Internal Error
>    Unexpected error in call to system function pf2Sex1 
> 
> Finally, the "(1) ->" prompt is printed twice on startup, with a small
> delay between printings, despite no user interaction.  Pressing ^C in
> the interval between prompts renders the session unresponsive, again
> requiring ^\ to regain control.
> 
> 
> -- System Information:
> Debian Release: testing/unstable
>   APT prefers unstable
>   APT policy: (500, 'unstable')
> Architecture: i386 (i686)
> Kernel: Linux 2.6.15
> Locale: LANG=C, LC_CTYPE=C
> 
> Versions of packages axiom depends on:
> ii  axiom-databases               20050901-4 A general purpose computer algebra
> ii  libc6                         2.3.5-7    GNU C Library: Shared libraries an
> ii  libgmp3c2                     4.1.4-11   Multiprecision arithmetic library
> ii  libncurses5                   5.4-9      Shared libraries for terminal hand
> ii  libreadline5                  5.1-5      GNU readline and history libraries
> 
> -- no debconf information
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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	on 26 Oct 2006 15:51:30 -0400)
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: [Gcl-devel] Problems with gcl 2.6.8 and
	agraphics in Axiom
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> make 
> 
>   (defentry sock_get_float (int) (double "sock_get_float"))
>   (defentry sock_send_float (int float) (int "sock_send_float"))
> 
> into 
> 
>   (defentry sock_get_float (int) (double "sock_get_float"))
>   (defentry sock_send_float (int double) (int "sock_send_float"))
> 
> as per the prototype in sockio-c.c.pamphlet.

fixed in the next release.
fixed in axiom--silver--1

it appears that we will have to redo all of the defentry values.
we may also need a GCL-2.6.8pre3.

t



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Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org, gcl-devel@gnu.org
Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Greetings, and thanks!

"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

> Camm, 
> 
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2006 11:10 AM you wrote:
> > ... 
> > OK, will try to reactivate my sourceforge status.  Something
> > changed over the summer.
> 
> Yes, there were some problems with access to the compile farm.
> That seems to be fixed now.
> 
> > In the meantime, here is what needs doing:
> > 
> > ./configure --enable-debug && make
> > cd unixport
> > make raw_pre_gcl
> > gdb raw_pre_gcl
> > (gdb) b sfasli.c:65
> > (gdb) r ./
> > (gdb) cond 1 strstr(q[u]->name,"srget")
> > (gdb) c
> > (gdb) p q[u]->name
> > (gdb) p q[u]->section->name
> > (gdb) p q[u]->flags
> > 
> > 
> > Thanks!
> >
> 
> Here you go:
> 
> ---------
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ ./configure
> --prefix=/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx --enable-locbfd
> --disable-statsysbfd --enable-debug
> ...
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ make
> ...
> makeinfo --html  gcl-si.texi
> makeinfo --html  gcl-tk.texi
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre $ cd unixport
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport $ make raw_pre_gcl
> ls: ../xgcl-2/*.o: No such file or directory
> ls: ../mod/*.o: No such file or directory
> ls: ../pcl/*.o: No such file or directory
> ls: ../clcs/*.o: No such file or directory
> ls: ../clcs/clcs_*.lisp: No such file or directory
> touch raw_pre_gcl_map
> gcc -no-cpp-precomp -o raw_pre_gcl  \
> -L.    -lpre_gcl `echo -lm  | sed -e 's/-lncurses/ /'`  -lc -lgclp
> 
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport $ gdb raw_pre_gcl
> GNU gdb 5.3-20021014 (Apple version gdb-250) (Sat Dec  7 02:14:27 GMT
> 2002)
> Copyright 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you
> are
> welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain
> conditions.
> Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
> There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for
> details.
> This GDB was configured as "powerpc-apple-macos10".
> Reading symbols for shared libraries .. done
> (gdb) b sfasli.c:65
> Breakpoint 1 at 0xb1b54: file sfasli.c, line 65.
> (gdb) r ./
> Starting program:
> /private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixpor
> t/raw_pre_gcl ./
> [Switching to process 27643 thread 0xb03]
> Reading symbols for shared libraries . done
> Reading symbols for shared libraries .. done
> DBEGIN:          0x122000
> mach_mapstart:   0x548000
> heap_end:        0x548000
> core_end:        0x548000
> mach_brkpt:      0x548000
> mach_maplimit: 0x20122000
> --- List of All Regions ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000     0x1000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>     0x2000    0xaf000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>    0xb1000     0x1000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>    0xb2000    0x70000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x122000     0x6000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x128000   0x420000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x548000   0x2dd000 r    rwx  (no zone)
>   0x825000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
>   0x865000    0x20000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
> --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x121000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x122000   0x426000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x548000   0x2dd000 r    rwx  (no zone)
>   0x825000    0x60000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
> --- Header Information ---
> Magic      = 0xfeedface
> CPUType    = 18
> CPUSubType = 0
> FileType   = 0x2
> NCmds      = 10
> SizeOfCmds = 1620
> Flags      = 0x00000085
> Highest address of load commands in input file:     0x825000
> Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0xb18
> --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
>  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
>  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x121000
>                                __text               0x1b18   0x10a410
>                                __picsymbol_stub   0x10bf28     0x18e4
>                                __symbol_stub      0x10d80c          0
>                                __cstring          0x10d80c    0x12714
>                                __literal4         0x11ff20       0x18
>                                __literal8         0x11ff38       0xc8
>                                __const            0x120000     0x1f9c
>                                __eh_frame         0x121f9c       0x60
>  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x122000   0x426000
>                                __data             0x122000     0x25b0
>                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1245b0      0x2c4
>                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x124874      0x8fc
>                                __dyld             0x125170       0x1c
>                                __const            0x12518c     0x2748
>                                __bss              0x1278d8     0x8f28
>                                __common           0x130800   0x416d68
>  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT         0x548000   0x2dd000
>  4 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
>  5 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
>  6 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
>  7 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
>  8 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
>  9 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:
> 0)
> Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x121000 (sz:
> 0x121000)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x121000 -   0x127000 (sz:
> 0x6000)
>         section __data           at   0x121000 -   0x1235b0 (sz:
> 0x25b0)
>         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1235b0 -   0x123874 (sz:
> 0x2c4)
>         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x123874 -   0x124170 (sz:
> 0x8fc)
>         section __dyld           at   0x124170 -   0x12418c (sz:
> 0x1c)
>         section __const          at   0x12418c -   0x1268d4 (sz:
> 0x2748)
>         section __bss            at   0x1268d8 -   0x12f800 (sz:
> 0x8f28)
>         section __common         at   0x12f800 -   0x546568 (sz:
> 0x416d68)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x547000 -   0x547000 (sz:
> 0)
> Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at   0x547000 -   0x823df4 (sz:
> 0x2dcdf4)
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
> Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
> Fixed up 17/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
> Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
> Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
> Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
> 1068 unused bytes follow Mach-O header
> 
> Program received signal SIGTRAP, Trace/breakpoint trap.
> 0x8fe19090 in __dyld__dyld_start ()
> 
> (gdb) cond 1 (int) strstr(q[u]->name,"srget")
> 
> (gdb) c
> Continuing.
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> Building symbol table for
> /private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixpor
> t/raw_pre_gcl.tmp ..
> 
> Breakpoint 1, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:65
> 65          if (strncmp(q[u]->section->name,"*UND*",5) && !(q[u]->flags
> & BSF_WEAK))
> 
> (gdb) p q[u]->name
> $1 = 0x5742d1 "___srget"
> 
> (gdb) p q[u]->section->name
> $2 = 0x114e74 "*UND*"
> 
> (gdb) p q[u]->flags
> $3 = 2
> 
> (gdb) c
> Continuing.
> loading ./../lsp/gcl_export.lsp
> loading ./../lsp/gcl_defmacro.lsp
> loading ./../lsp/gcl_evalmacros.lsp
> loading ./../lsp/gcl_top.lsp
> loading ./../lsp/gcl_module.lsp
> loading ./../lsp/gcl_autoload.lsp
> 
> >(quit)
> 
> Program exited normally.
> (gdb) quit
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport $
> 
> --------
> 
> Note I had to add (int) to:
> 
>   cond 1 (int) strstr(q[u]->name,"srget")
> 
> to avoid an error message about unknow return type.
> 
> > > > ... 
> > > > Come to think of it, there may be a problem like the following:
> > > > 
> > > > On Linux systems, libc symbols are postpended with a @@ and
> > > > version number.   Here is our code to deal with this (sfasli.c):
> > > > (my comments in ****)
> > > > 
> > > >   for (u=0;u<v;u++) {
> > > >     char *c=NULL;
> > > >     struct bfd_link_hash_entry *h;
> > > > 
> > > >     if (!*q[u]->name)
> > > >       continue;
> > > >
> 
> This is line 65:
> 
> > > >     if (strncmp(q[u]->section->name,"*UND*",5) && 
> > > > !(q[u]->flags & BSF_WEAK))
> > > >       continue;
> > > >
> 
> Is value of flags=2 ok? What is BSF_WEAK?
> 
> h/bfd.h:#define BSF_WEAK        0x80
>  
> > > > *** the above might skip ___srget ***
> > > > 
> 
> It looks like it's gonna skip to me. Is that good or bad?
> 

Actually, it looks like it will not skip due to the section->name.

Please verify this by stepping through with n and this point.  In
fact, if you can step from this point to the bottom of this for loop
iteration, and then

(gdb) p *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_TRUE)

that would be most helpful.  

> Also it looks like there is no prepended @@ in q[u]->name.
> 

This is OK, as there is no other junk that needs special processing.

> > > >     if ((c=(char *)strstr(q[u]->name,"@@"))) {
> > > >       *c=0;
> > > >       if 
> > > > (!(h=bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_TRU
> > > > E,MY_BFD_TRUE,MY_BFD_TRUE)))
> > > > 	FEerror("Cannot make new hash entry",0);
> > > >       h->type=bfd_link_hash_new;
> > > >     } else if 
> > > >       
> > > > (!(h=bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FAL
> > > SE,MY_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_TRUE)) &&
> > > >        
> > > > !(h=bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_TRUE
> > > > ,MY_BFD_TRUE,MY_BFD_TRUE)))
> > > > 	FEerror("Cannot make new hash entry",0);
> > > > 
> > > > *** There might be some other mangling than the @ for ___srget ***
> > > > 
> > > >     if (h->type!=bfd_link_hash_defined) {
> > > >       if (!q[u]->section)
> > > > 	FEerror("Symbol ~S is missing 
> > > > section",1,make_simple_string(q[u]->name));
> > > >       if (!my_plt(q[u]->name,&pa)) {
> > > > /* 	 printf("my_plt %s %p\n",q[u]->name,(void *)pa);  */
> > > >  	if (q[u]->value && q[u]->value!=pa)
> > > >  	  FEerror("plt address mismatch", 0);
> > > >  	else
> > > >  	  q[u]->value=pa;
> > > >       }
> > > >       if (q[u]->value) {
> > > > 	h->type=bfd_link_hash_defined;
> > > > 	h->u.def.value=q[u]->value+q[u]->section->vma;
> > > > 	h->u.def.section=q[u]->section;
> > > >       }
> > > >     }
> > > > 
> > > >     if (c) {
> > > >       *c='@';
> > > >       c=NULL;
> > > >     }
> > > >   }
> > > > 
> > > > This might be instructive with srget in place of cos:
> > > > 
> > > > objdump -x /usr/lib/gcl-2.6.7/unixport/saved_gcl |grep cos
> > > > 0812f590 l     F .text	0000015b              number_cos
> > > > 00000000       F *UND*	00000026              cos@@GLIBC_2.0
> > > > 0804fb40       F *UND*	00000074              acosh@@GLIBC_2.0
> > > > 08050440       F *UND*	00000081              cosh@@GLIBC_2.0
> > > > 0812f6f0 g     F .text	00000047              Lcos
> > > > 00000000       F *UND*	00000026              cosf@@GLIBC_2.0
> > > > 08051200       F *UND*	00000075              acos@@GLIBC_2.0
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > There is no objdump on this OSX 10.2 system. :-(
> > > 
> > > Shall I try to install GNU binutils? The version bundled with GCL
> > > or a newer one?
> > 
> > The one in the GCL sources should be fine.
> > 
> 
> See next email.
> 

Thanks again!

Take care,

> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: [Gcl-devel] Problems with gcl 2.6.8 and
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> Separately, The hypertex ptyopen area on Debian is solved by
> 
> mount -t devpts devpts /dev/pts

This is FAQ 17.


> as on one of the wiki pages, and, if necessary,
> 
> mount -o bind /dev/pts /unstable_chroot/dev/pts

unstable_chroot?

t





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Camm,

Architecturally there is a process called sman which starts up
other processes including axiomsys, which is a saved GCL image.
sman handles the terminal. by default a special terminal handler
called 'clef' (command line edit function) which is our own version
of readline-like handling is started.

try starting axiom with

  axiom -noclef

and see if the problem still happens.

t



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Greetings!  Just wondering if this is the last axiom issue with
2.6.8pre outstanding.  If not, what are the others?  If more testing
time is needed to answer this, how much more?

Take care,
-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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root wrote:
> Camm,
> 
> Architecturally there is a process called sman which starts up
> other processes including axiomsys, which is a saved GCL image.
> sman handles the terminal. by default a special terminal handler
> called 'clef' (command line edit function) which is our own version
> of readline-like handling is started.
> 
> try starting axiom with
> 
>   axiom -noclef
> 
> and see if the problem still happens.
> 

Reproducible (using build-improvements) both with and without clef.
When AXIOMsys is run directly ^D exits it. When AXIOMsys is run via
clef ^D\n exits it.  With sman present Axiom crashes.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Vanuxem Gr=E9gory <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr> writes:

| Hello,
|=20
| It seems that this mail was forgotten. It's a typo in the code
| (bookvol5) so a real bug.=20

Applied to build-improvements.

-- Gaby
2006-10-26  Vanuexm Gr=E9gory  <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr>

	* bookvol5.pamphlet (|importFromFrame|): Fix typo.

*** bookvol5.pamphlet	(revision 15149)
--- bookvol5.pamphlet	(local)
*************** importFromFrame args =3D=3D
*** 4316,4322 ****
                   (spadlet plist (getalist (caar fenv) v))
                   (cond
                    (plist=20
!                    (|clearCmdparts| (cons '|propert| (cons v nil)))
                     (do ((tmp5 plist (cdr tmp5)) (tmp6 nil))
                         ((or (atom tmp5)
                              (progn (setq tmp6 (car tmp5)) nil)
--- 4316,4322 ----
                   (spadlet plist (getalist (caar fenv) v))
                   (cond
                    (plist=20
!                    (|clearCmdParts| (cons '|propert| (cons v nil)))
                     (do ((tmp5 plist (cdr tmp5)) (tmp6 nil))
                         ((or (atom tmp5)
                              (progn (setq tmp6 (car tmp5)) nil)



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: [Gcl-devel] Problems with gcl 2.6.8 and
	agraphics in Axiom
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Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com> writes:

| Greetings!  This fixes it for me:
| 
| sockio.lisp.pamphlet:
| 
| make 
| 
|   (defentry sock_get_float (int) (double "sock_get_float"))
|   (defentry sock_send_float (int float) (int "sock_send_float"))
| 
| into 
| 
|   (defentry sock_get_float (int) (double "sock_get_float"))
|   (defentry sock_send_float (int double) (int "sock_send_float"))
| 
| as per the prototype in sockio-c.c.pamphlet.

Applied to build-improvements branch.

-- Gaby
2006-10-26  Camm Maguire  <camm@enhanced.com>

	* sockio.lisp.pamphlet: Fix second argument-type for
	sock_send_float defentry.
 
*** sockio.lisp.pamphlet	(revision 15148)
--- sockio.lisp.pamphlet	(local)
***************
*** 79,85 ****
    (defentry sock_get_string_buf (int string int) (int "sock_get_string_buf"))
    (defentry sock_send_string_len (int string int) (int "sock_send_string_len"))
    (defentry sock_get_float (int) (double "sock_get_float"))
!   (defentry sock_send_float (int float) (int "sock_send_float"))
    (defentry sock_send_wakeup (int int) (int "sock_send_wakeup"))
    (defentry server_switch () (int "server_switch"))
    (defentry flush_stdout () (int "flush_stdout"))
--- 79,85 ----
    (defentry sock_get_string_buf (int string int) (int "sock_get_string_buf"))
    (defentry sock_send_string_len (int string int) (int "sock_send_string_len"))
    (defentry sock_get_float (int) (double "sock_get_float"))
!   (defentry sock_send_float (int double) (int "sock_send_float"))
    (defentry sock_send_wakeup (int int) (int "sock_send_wakeup"))
    (defentry server_switch () (int "server_switch"))
    (defentry flush_stdout () (int "flush_stdout"))



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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

| Gaby,
| 
| Here are some simple patches to build-improvements required by
| some versions of awk. Of course you need also to rebuild the
| corresponding Makefile.in files.

Applied to build-improvements.

-- Gaby
src/
2006-10-26  Bill Page  <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>

	* Makefile.pamphlet ($(alg-stamp)): Don't append to
	$(builddir)/algebra/more-rules.mk.  Just overwrite it.
        * Makefile.in: Regenerate.

src/algebra/
2006-10-26  Bill Page  <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>

	* Makefile.pamphlet (${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o): Fix tabs.
	(<<findSpadFiles>>): Don't escape dollar sign inside AWK expression.
	(<<findBootstrapFiles>>): Likewise.
        * Makefile.in: Regenerate.

*** src/Makefile.pamphlet	(revision 15150)
--- src/Makefile.pamphlet	(local)
*************** $(alg-stamp): $(share-stamp)
*** 221,227 ****
                    > $(INT)/algebra/findAlgebraFiles && \
  	echo 30b running ${INT}/algebra/findAlgebraFiles && \
  	(cd $(srcdir)/algebra && . $(INT)/algebra/findAlgebraFiles) \
!           >> $(builddir)/algebra/more-rules.mk
  	cd algebra && ${ENV} ${MAKE}
  @
  
--- 221,227 ----
                    > $(INT)/algebra/findAlgebraFiles && \
  	echo 30b running ${INT}/algebra/findAlgebraFiles && \
  	(cd $(srcdir)/algebra && . $(INT)/algebra/findAlgebraFiles) \
!           > $(builddir)/algebra/more-rules.mk
  	cd algebra && ${ENV} ${MAKE}
  @
  
*** src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	(revision 15150)
--- src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet	(local)
*************** ${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o: ${MID}/%.spad
*** 1635,1641 ****
  	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
  	   if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
  	    echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS}  ; \
!            else \
  	     echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
  	   fi )
  
--- 1635,1641 ----
  	@ (cd ${MID} ; \
  	   if [ -z "${NOISE}" ] ; then \
  	    echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS}  ; \
! 	   else \
  	     echo ")co $*.spad" | ${INTERPSYS} >> ${TMP}/trace ; \
  	   fi )
  
*************** egrep '@<<(domain|package|category) .*>>
*** 1766,1774 ****
  awk -F: '{
    chunk=substr($2,3,length($2)-5);
    split(chunk,part," ");
!   spadfile="\${MID}/"part[2]".spad";
!   print spadfile": \$(srcdir)/"$1;
!   print "\t@\${TANGLE} -R\""chunk"\" \$(srcdir)/"$1">"spadfile;
    print "";
  }'
  
--- 1766,1774 ----
  awk -F: '{
    chunk=substr($2,3,length($2)-5);
    split(chunk,part," ");
!   spadfile="${MID}/"part[2]".spad";
!   print spadfile": $(srcdir)/"$1;
!   print "\t@${TANGLE} -R\""chunk"\" $(srcdir)/"$1">"spadfile;
    print "";
  }'
  
*************** egrep '@<<.*BOOTSTRAP>>=' *.spad.pamphle
*** 1829,1837 ****
  awk -F: '{
    chunk=substr($2,3,length($2)-5);
    split(chunk,part," ");
!   lspfile="\${MID}/"part[1];
!   print lspfile": \$(srcdir)/"$1;
!   print "\t@\${TANGLE} -R\""chunk"\" \$(srcdir)/"$1">"lspfile;
    print "";
  }'
  
--- 1829,1837 ----
  awk -F: '{
    chunk=substr($2,3,length($2)-5);
    split(chunk,part," ");
!   lspfile="${MID}/"part[1];
!   print lspfile": $(srcdir)/"$1;
!   print "\t@${TANGLE} -R\""chunk"\" $(srcdir)/"$1">"lspfile;
    print "";
  }'
  



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com> writes:

| Greetings!  OK, should be optional now.  Please let me know if not.

Camm --

  Thanks for the quick fix.

Now, the build progressed further but still I hit a regression when I
try to install it in a specifc location (it worked with earlier versions):

    make[4]: [gcl-si.info] Error 1 (ignored)
    make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/gdr/build/axiom/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/info'
    make[4]: Entering directory `/home/gdr/build/axiom/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/info'
    mkdir -p /usr/share/info/
    [ -f /usr/share/info/dir ] || touch /usr/share/info/dir
    grep gcl-si /usr/share/info/dir >/dev/null 2>&1 || \
    echo "* GCL Doc: (gcl-si.info). GNU Common Lisp specific Documentation." >> /usr/share/info/dir
    /bin/sh: /usr/share/info/dir: Permission denied
    make[4]: *** [install] Error 1

My preliminary analysis is that GCL is insisting to install info files
in a directory (/usr/share/info) which is not part of what is
specified as --prefix and on which I do not have a write permission
(and even if I had a write permission, it would still be wrong).

I don't think I would be able to provide a fix right now as I have to
watch a sick baby.

-- Gaby



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Camm,

I give you the gdb output you requested in the next email.
But now that you mention it...

On Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:01 PM you wrote:

> Greetings!  Just wondering if this is the last axiom issue with
> 2.6.8pre outstanding.  If not, what are the others?  If more
> testing time is needed to answer this, how much more?
>=20

I *am* currently fighting with another problem with the
gcl-2.6.8pre build. When building gcl on an x86-64 Ubuntu
system, the following segment of the ./configure script fails
to create a valid value for EMACS_SITE_LISP. I see from the
email lists that this hack has caused some trouble in the past.

------

echo $ac_n "checking emacs site lisp directory""... $ac_c" 1>&6
echo "configure:6251: checking emacs site lisp directory" >&5
if [ "$EMACS_SITE_LISP" =3D "unknown" ] ; then
        if [ "$EMACS" !=3D "" ] ; then
                EMACS_SITE_LISP=3D`$EMACS -q -batch --no-site-file -l
conftest.el 2>&1 | grep -v ^Warning: | sed -e /Loading/d | sed -e
/load/d `
        else
                EMACS_SITE_LISP=3D""
        fi
fi
echo "$ac_t""$EMACS_SITE_LISP" 1>&6

--------

On the particular system where is is a problem, I get the following
output from emacs:

$ /usr/bin/emacs -q -batch
/home/page/sage-1.4.1.2-x86_64-Linux/local/lib/libpng-l conftest.el
/usr/bin/emacs:
/home/page/sage-1.4.1.2-x86_64-Linux/local/lib/libpng12.so.0: no version
information available (required by /usr/bin/emacs)
Loading 00debian-vars...
No /etc/mailname. Reverting to default...
Loading 50autoconf (source)...
Package autoconf removed but not purged.  Skipping setup.
Loading 50cscope (source)...
Loading 50ocaml-nox (source)...
Loading 50octave (source)...
Loading 50psvn (source)...
Loading 50python-mode (source)...
Loading 50vc-svn (source)...

--------

It seems to me there ought to be a better way. I think
the conftest.el:

cat >> conftest.el <<EOF
(let ((ans ".") (tem load-path) cur)
 (while (setq cur (car tem))
   (setq tem (cdr tem))
   (cond ((and (string-match "site-lisp/?$" cur) (file-directory-p cur))
          (setq ans cur)
           (if (string-match "-0-9.+$" cur) nil
               (setq tem nil)))))
  (message ans))
EOF

-------

should be re-written to emit a unique marker for the information
for which we are looking. E.g. something like this:

cat >> conftest.el <<EOF
(let ((ans ".") (tem load-path) cur)
 (while (setq cur (car tem))
   (setq tem (cdr tem))
   (cond ((and (string-match "site-lisp/?$" cur) (file-directory-p cur))
          (setq ans cur)
           (if (string-match "-0-9.+$" cur) nil
               (setq tem nil)))))
  (message (concat "<filename>" ans "<filename>"))
EOF

--------

(Maybe you have to fix my lisp.)

But then in .configure we can write something simple and reliable:

  EMACS_SITE_LISP=3D`$EMACS -q -batch --no-site-file -l conftest.el 2>&1 =
|
\
    awk -F '<filename>' '/<filename>(.*)<filename>/ {print $2}'`

Regards,
Bill Page.



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To: Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

| Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com> writes:
| 
| | Greetings!  OK, should be optional now.  Please let me know if not.
| 
| Camm --
| 
|   Thanks for the quick fix.
| 
| Now, the build progressed further but still I hit a regression when I
| try to install it in a specifc location (it worked with earlier versions):
| 
|     make[4]: [gcl-si.info] Error 1 (ignored)
|     make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/gdr/build/axiom/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/info'
|     make[4]: Entering directory `/home/gdr/build/axiom/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/info'
|     mkdir -p /usr/share/info/
|     [ -f /usr/share/info/dir ] || touch /usr/share/info/dir
|     grep gcl-si /usr/share/info/dir >/dev/null 2>&1 || \
|     echo "* GCL Doc: (gcl-si.info). GNU Common Lisp specific Documentation." >> /usr/share/info/dir
|     /bin/sh: /usr/share/info/dir: Permission denied
|     make[4]: *** [install] Error 1
| 
| My preliminary analysis is that GCL is insisting to install info files
| in a directory (/usr/share/info) which is not part of what is
| specified as --prefix and on which I do not have a write permission
| (and even if I had a write permission, it would still be wrong).

In configure.in, GCL as a machinery to check for where to install the
info files.  With a default value as $prefix/share/info.  That is perfect.
However, down the road, GCL changes its mind and wanted to know
whether /usr/share/info/dir exits, and if it does then it would install the
info files there.  That is not right.

    if  test -f "${INFO_DIR}dir"  ; then true;else
    if test -f /usr/share/info/dir ; then
      INFO_DIR=/usr/share/info/
    else true;
    fi
    fi

I'll be checking in a patch that removes that.

-- Gaby



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Camm,

On Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:01 PM you asked:
>=20
> Greetings!  Just wondering if this is the last axiom issue with
> 2.6.8pre outstanding.  If not, what are the others?  If more testing
> time is needed to answer this, how much more?
>

Here is the debugging output you asked for in your previous email.

On Thursday, October 26, 2006 4:41 PM you wrote:
> ...=20
> Please verify this by stepping through with n and this point.  In
> fact, if you can step from this point to the bottom of this for loop
> iteration, and then
>=20
> (gdb) p=20
> *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FALSE,M
Y_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_TRUE)
>=20
> that would be most helpful. =20
>=20

--------=20

(gdb) cond 1 (int) strstr(q[u]->name,"srget")
(gdb) c
Continuing.
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
Building symbol table for
/private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixpor
t/raw_pre_gcl.tmp ..

Breakpoint 1, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:65
65          if (strncmp(q[u]->section->name,"*UND*",5) && !(q[u]->flags
& BSF_WEAK))
(gdb) p q[u]->name
$1 =3D 0x5742d1 "___srget"
(gdb) p q[u]->section->name
$2 =3D 0x114e74 "*UND*"
(gdb) p q[u]->flags
$3 =3D 2
(gdb) n
68          if ((c=3D(char *)strstr(q[u]->name,"@@"))) {
(gdb) n
73          } else if
(gdb) n
78          if (h->type!=3Dbfd_link_hash_defined) {
(gdb) n
79            if (!q[u]->section)
(gdb) n
81            if (!my_plt(q[u]->name,&pa)) {
(gdb) n
88            if (q[u]->value) {
(gdb) n
95          if (c) {
(gdb) p
*bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_FALS
E,MY_BFD_TRUE)
No symbol "MY_BFD_FALSE" in current context.
(gdb) p *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,0,0,MY_BFD_TRUE)
No symbol "MY_BFD_TRUE" in current context.
(gdb) p *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,0,0,1)
$4 =3D {
  root =3D {
    next =3D 0x0,
    string =3D 0x76db28 "___srget",
    hash =3D 163640344
  },
  type =3D bfd_link_hash_undefined,
  u =3D {
    undef =3D {
      next =3D 0x76db34,
      abfd =3D 0x54a2f0,
      weak =3D 0x0
    },
    def =3D {
      next =3D 0x76db34,
      section =3D 0x54a2f0,
      value =3D 0
    },
    i =3D {
      next =3D 0x76db34,
      link =3D 0x54a2f0,
      warning =3D 0x0
    },
    c =3D {
      next =3D 0x76db34,
      p =3D 0x54a2f0,
      size =3D 0
    }
  }
}
(gdb) n
58        for (u=3D0;u<v;u++) {
(gdb)

------------

I guess it didn't know MY_BFD_FALSE and MY_BFD_TRUE but I
took a wild guess at what these symbols might be. Is this
output useful to you?

Regards,
Bill Page.



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On Thursday, October 26, 2006 9:27 PM I wrote:
>=20
> I *am* currently fighting with another problem with the
> gcl-2.6.8pre build. When building gcl on an x86-64 Ubuntu
> system, the following segment of the ./configure script fails
> to create a valid value for EMACS_SITE_LISP. I see from the
> email lists that this hack has caused some trouble in the past.
> ...=20
> It seems to me there ought to be a better way.
> ...

Here is an actual patch that implements the new test. It works
on my current targe system, but I haven't tested it any further.

---------

page@sage:~/sage-1.4.1.2-x86_64-Linux$ diff -au
~/axiom.build/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/configure
spkg/build/axiom4sage-0.1/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/configure
--- /home/page/axiom.build/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/configure   2006-09-17
14:56:50.000000000 -0700
+++ spkg/build/axiom4sage-0.1/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/configure
2006-10-26 19:18:59.000000000 -0700
@@ -6243,14 +6243,14 @@
           (setq ans cur)
            (if (string-match "-0-9.+$" cur) nil
                (setq tem nil)))))
-  (message ans))
+  (message (concat "<filename>" ans "<filename>)))
 EOF

 echo $ac_n "checking emacs site lisp directory""... $ac_c" 1>&6
 echo "configure:6251: checking emacs site lisp directory" >&5
 if [ "$EMACS_SITE_LISP" =3D "unknown" ] ; then
        if [ "$EMACS" !=3D "" ] ; then
-               EMACS_SITE_LISP=3D`$EMACS -q -batch --no-site-file -l
conftest.el 2>&1 | grep -v ^Warning: | sed -e /Loading/d | sed -e
/load/d `
+               EMACS_SITE_LISP=3D`$EMACS -q -batch --no-site-file -l
conftest.el 2>&1 | awk -F '<filename>' '/<filename>(.*)<filename>/
{print $2}' `
        else
                EMACS_SITE_LISP=3D""
        fi
@@ -6267,13 +6267,13 @@
            (setq file (expand-file-name "/default.el" (car tem))))
          (setq tem nil) (setq ans file)))
    (setq tem (cdr tem)))
-  (message ans))
+  (message (concat "<filename>" ans "<filename>")))
 EOF

 echo $ac_n "checking emacs default.el""... $ac_c" 1>&6
 echo "configure:6275: checking emacs default.el" >&5
 if [ "$EMACS" !=3D "" ] ; then
-       EMACS_DEFAULT_EL=3D`$EMACS -q -batch --no-site-file -l =
conftest.el
2>&1 | sed -e /Loading/d | sed -e /load/d `
+       EMACS_DEFAULT_EL=3D`$EMACS -q -batch --no-site-file -l =
conftest.el
2>&1 | awk -F '<filename>' '/<filename>(.*)<filename>/ {print $2}' `
 else
        EMACS_DEFAULT_EL=3D""
 fi
page@sage:~/sage-1.4.1.2-x86_64-Linux$

----------

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

| On Thursday, October 26, 2006 9:27 PM I wrote:
| > 
| > I *am* currently fighting with another problem with the
| > gcl-2.6.8pre build. When building gcl on an x86-64 Ubuntu
| > system, the following segment of the ./configure script fails
| > to create a valid value for EMACS_SITE_LISP. I see from the
| > email lists that this hack has caused some trouble in the past.
| > ... 
| > It seems to me there ought to be a better way.
| > ...
| 
| Here is an actual patch that implements the new test. It works
| on my current targe system, but I haven't tested it any further.
| 
| ---------
| 
| page@sage:~/sage-1.4.1.2-x86_64-Linux$ diff -au
| ~/axiom.build/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/configure
| spkg/build/axiom4sage-0.1/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/configure

I think you want to patch configure.in, not configure.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Gcl-devel] Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

[...]

| In configure.in, GCL as a machinery to check for where to install the
| info files.  With a default value as $prefix/share/info.  That is perfect.
| However, down the road, GCL changes its mind and wanted to know
| whether /usr/share/info/dir exits, and if it does then it would install the
| info files there.  That is not right.
| 
|     if  test -f "${INFO_DIR}dir"  ; then true;else
|     if test -f /usr/share/info/dir ; then
|       INFO_DIR=/usr/share/info/
|     else true;
|     fi
|     fi
| 
| I'll be checking in a patch that removes that.

With the removal patch in, I'm able to a successful build GCL inside
Axiom.  Complete Axiom build is under way.

-- Gaby



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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On Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:19 PM Gaby wrote:

> ...
> Bill Page wrote:
> |=20
> | page@sage:~/sage-1.4.1.2-x86_64-Linux$ diff -au
> | ~/axiom.build/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/configure
> | spkg/build/axiom4sage-0.1/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/configure
>=20
> I think you want to patch configure.in, not configure.
>=20

Yes, of course. However I do not have autoconf on the target
system where I am now working. So a patch to configure.in is
left as an "exercise for the reader" :-)

On the other hand I do have makeinfo ...

Regards,
Bill Page.



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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

| On Thursday, October 26, 2006 10:19 PM Gaby wrote:
| 
| > ...
| > Bill Page wrote:
| > | 
| > | page@sage:~/sage-1.4.1.2-x86_64-Linux$ diff -au
| > | ~/axiom.build/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/configure
| > | spkg/build/axiom4sage-0.1/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/configure
| > 
| > I think you want to patch configure.in, not configure.
| > 
| 
| Yes, of course. However I do not have autoconf on the target
| system where I am now working. So a patch to configure.in is
| left as an "exercise for the reader" :-)
| 
| On the other hand I do have makeinfo ...

It looks like we're working on antipodal machines :-) :-)

-- Gaby



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Camm,

I just tried a build of GCL on Fedora Core 5.
It fails as follows:

>rm raw_pre_gcl init_pre_gcl.lisp
make[4]: Leaving directory '/root/silver3/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport'
(cd lsp; touch *.lsp ; make all)
make[4]: Entering directory '/root/silver3/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/lsp'

Unrecoverable error: Segmentation violation..
../xbin/if-exists: line 13: 9412 Aborted            $3
gcc: gcl_arraylib.c: No such file or directory
gcc: no input files
cat: gcl_arraylib.data: No such file or directory



gcc --version
gcc (GCC) 4.1.0 20060304 (Red Hat 4.1.0-3)



The version of gcl is the one called gcl-2.6.8pre in the axiom/zips
directory. I'm now going to retry the build using gcl-2.6.8pre2 
which is a slightly later version. If that fails I'll check out
the HEAD and try that.

Tim





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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Camm,

gcl-2.6.8pre2 fails exactly the same way on Fedora Core 5.






>rm raw_pre_gcl init_pre_gcl.lisp
make[4]: Leaving directory '/root/silver3/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport'
(cd lsp; touch *.lsp ; make all)
make[4]: Entering directory '/root/silver3/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/lsp'

Unrecoverable error: Segmentation violation..
../xbin/if-exists: line 13: 9412 Aborted            $3
gcc: gcl_arraylib.c: No such file or directory
gcc: no input files
cat: gcl_arraylib.data: No such file or directory



gcc --version
gcc (GCC) 4.1.0 20060304 (Red Hat 4.1.0-3)




Tim





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Camm Maguire writes:
> sockio.lisp.pamphlet:
> 
> make 
> 
>   (defentry sock_get_float (int) (double "sock_get_float"))
>   (defentry sock_send_float (int float) (int "sock_send_float"))
> 
> into 
> 
>   (defentry sock_get_float (int) (double "sock_get_float"))
>   (defentry sock_send_float (int double) (int "sock_send_float"))
> 

Works for me.  Thank you Camm!


-- 
      Vadim V. Zhytnikov

       <vvzhy@mail.ru>
      <vvzhy@netorn.ru>



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Patch for SPADEDIT
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Dear Tim, Gaby,

since Ralf asked me yesterday, and since I find it quite useful, I'd ask you to
include the proposed fix for issue #144

http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/144DomainAbbreviationIsNoLongerAssociatedWithFilename

in your next distribution. For simplicity, I reproduce it here:

Save the following as $AXIOM/lib/SPADEDIT and make it executable, and replace
the call to emacs by your favorite text editor. In fact, maybe one should
change the code to call the dvi file or at least the pamphlet:

#! /bin/bash
## get the filename

f=$(basename $1 .spad)

## get the file and the line number. We can assume that grep produces only one
## answer, I guess.
## (replace $AXIOM/src/algebra/* by the directory containing pamphlets if you
## prefer them)

h=$(grep -n ")abb.* $f " $AXIOM/src/algebra/*)

## get the filename

name=${h%%:*}

## get the number

number1=${h#*:}
number=${number1%:*}

## start emacs

emacs +$number $name


There are some things which are questionable:

the last line needs configuring. For example, I modified it to

          gnuclient +$number $name

Some people even might want to display the pamphlet instead. This would be
quite trivial to fix, if the pamphlets were installed. Currently, they
aren't. 

We could also display the dvi, but then src/scripts/document would have to call
latex with "-src-specials" or, if that is not available, we would have to
include the file srcltx in every pamphlet. 

There is yet another issue: It seems that latex -source-specials puts the
absolute path of the original file into the dvi. I guess that at least kdvi
won't mind for forward search (i.e., when clicking on INT.spad in HyperDoc the
correct line will appear), but inverse search, (i.e., clicking in the dvi file
to display the source) won't work. Maybe Ralf has a solution for that problem,
but really, it will likely be easier to switch to allprose anyway.
  
I cannot really imagine that there are people not using emacs ;-)




Martin




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Subject: [Axiom-developer] FW: axiom4sage-0.1.spkg axiom as a Sage package
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=20

-----Original Message-----
From: Bill Page [mailto:bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca]=20
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 3:58 AM
To: William Stein
Cc: sage-devel@googlegroups.com; bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca
Subject: axiom4sage-0.1.spkg axiom as a Sage package

William,

I have prepared an initial "alpha" version of an spkg for Axiom.

You can download it (or access it directly) from here:

http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/page/packages/axiom4sage-0.1.spkg

Install it using the standard command in sage-1.4.2 or later:

   $ sage -i axiom4sage-0.1.spkg

Warning: Axiom is a *big* package (35 Mbytes) and even on a fast
computer
(such as the Sage server) it takes over two hours to compile.

After installation Axiom can be accessed in Sage in a manner very
similar
to Maxima. E.g.

   sage: p =3D axiom( '(2*x-1)::POLY ZMOD(3)' )
   sage: p.type()
   Polynomial IntegerMod 3
   sage: p^2

      2
     x  + 2x + 1

This package is based on the newest experimental versions of both GCL
(Lisp compiler version 2.6.8) and Axiom (the build-improvements branch).
Getting these both to build within the Sage "local" environment under
Ubuntu and on x86-64 hardware turned out to be a worthy challenge :-)
and resulted in several new bug fixes upstream. The new
build-improvements
version of Axiom makes extensive use of the gnu autoconf tools and so in
principle should build successfully on a much wider range of platforms.

At this time the axiom4sage-0.1 package is only known to install
successfully on the Sage server (Ubuntu linux) and on the Axiom server
(Redhat 9 linux). I am currently working with Camm Maquire, the lead
developer for GCL, to ensure that GCL and Axiom will also (real soon
now!)
build on OSX. I would very much appreciate reports of success or failure
of installations on other systems.

Regards,
Bill Page.

http://wiki.axiom-developer.org




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Subject: [Axiom-developer] FW: axiom4sage-0.1.spkg axiom as a Sage package
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=20

-----Original Message-----
From: William Stein [mailto:wstein@gmail.com]=20
Sent: Friday, October 27, 2006 4:12 AM
To: Bill Page
Cc: sage-devel@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: axiom4sage-0.1.spkg axiom as a Sage package

On Fri, 27 Oct 2006 02:57:59 -0500, Bill Page =20
<bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:

> William,
>
> I have prepared an initial "alpha" version of an spkg for Axiom.
>
> You can download it (or access it directly) from here:
>
> http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/page/packages/axiom4sage-0.1.spkg
>
> Install it using the standard command in sage-1.4.2 or later:
>
>    $ sage -i axiom4sage-0.1.spkg

Actually, that wouldn't have worked unless people set their SAGE_SERVER
environment variable to http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/page/
first.
However, I copied the axiom4sage to the official experimental part of
the
SAGE repository, so now the above command will work.

> Warning: Axiom is a *big* package (35 Mbytes) and even on a fast
> computer (such as the Sage server) it takes over two hours to compile.

Wow.

> This package is based on the newest experimental versions of both GCL
> (Lisp compiler version 2.6.8) and Axiom (the build-improvements
branch).
> Getting these both to build within the Sage "local" environment under
> Ubuntu and on x86-64 hardware turned out to be a worthy challenge :-)

I bet!!!  Many many thanks for doing this.  It will hopefully mean that
soon people will be able to more easily build Axiom on many machines.

> At this time the axiom4sage-0.1 package is only known to install
> successfully on the Sage server (Ubuntu linux) and on the Axiom server
> (Redhat 9 linux). I am currently working with Camm Maquire, the lead
> developer for GCL, to ensure that GCL and Axiom will also (real soon =20
> now!) build on OSX.

I'm eagerly awaiting this.  And building GCL on OS X would be nice,
because then SAGE would have the option to use gcl instead of clisp
for Maxima, if need be.

William



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Hypertex and pty
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From: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
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I wrote:
> Vanuxem Gr=E9gory wrote:
> > Le jeudi 26 octobre 2006 ? 02:36 +0200, Waldek Hebisch a =E9crit :
> > > I wanted to try hypertex in silver on Gentoo Linux.  It turned out
> > > that I can not start sman, becouse 'ptyopen' was failing.  Atfter
> > > a little investigation I found out that the machine (which otherwise
> > > uses bleeding edge new software) has only old legacy pty's -- the
> > > new '/dev/ptmx' and '/dev/pts' were not enabled.  All other
> > > software worked fine, trying '/dev/ptmx' first and then silently
> > > falling back to legacy pty's -- only Axiom assumed that Linux
> > > must have working '/dev/ptmx'.
> > >=20
> > > While I consider this machine as misconfigured, the problem may
> > > appear in real use.  If we want Axiom to "just work" it should
> > > also try new method first and then fall back to legacy pty's.
> > >=20
> >=20
> > See http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/189GraphicsDoesNotWorkOnDebian
> >=20
>=20
> I see, I am not the first with this problem.  Concerning the patch:
> while technically it seem to work (I tested a slight variation of it),
> it has many problems:
>=20
> 1) the patch duplicates code (my variation avoids duplication)
> 2) on Linux there is 'openpty' library function which is smart
>    enough to try first '/dev/ptmx' and if needed fall back to
>    legacy pty's. 'openpty' also handles extra issues (like=20
>    changing access rights to legacy pty's) -- we probably should
>    use it.
> 3) in general 'openpty.c.pamphlet' is messy and the patch from
>    wiki only adds to this mess
>=20

Using BSD method on Linux is no go (I wonder if BSD method still
works on BSD) -- first time it worked, but second time I got
completly anresponsive Axiom (but hypertex worked).  More precisely,
clef run out of pty's and did not start up, so nobody would forward
input to AXIOMsys.  How it happened that machine run out of pty's
(the machine had "full" set of 256 pty's) -- it turned out to be
a permission problem.  Namely, only a handful of slave tty* node
were writable by user starting Axiom -- anybody using pty's is
supposed to use a setuid helper which adjusts permissions as
needed.

openpty call works, but there is a Makefile/configure problem:
openpty is in libutil, so we need to link in additional library.
For tests I added it from command line using 'make LDF=3D-lutil',
but for serious use we need a configure test.

Gaby, is LDF the right variable to set or do we need extra one?

--=20
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl=20



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Patch for SPADEDIT
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Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at> writes:

> Dear Tim, Gaby,

there is now a better patch on Mathaction, issue #144, that also fixes #5.

Martin




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Tim,

On Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:03 PM you wrote:
>=20
> I did a checkout of the sourceforge SVN root.
> I'll diff the SVN vs axiom--silver--1 so nothing gets lost.
>=20

Ok. After a little messing things up, I think I now have a
working automatic procedure to update the SVN silver repository
with the changes that you commit to the tla axiom--silver--1
archive.

In the end I decided to leave SVN /trunk alone and to create
a new top level root called /silver

https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom/silver

This should also get migrated to the Google Code repository
during the next 24 hours or so (the great google willing ;).

To the best of my ability to research the subject, it seems
that having two (or more) roots in an svn repository will not
cause any problems.

The reason I decided to leave /trunk was that in fact there
are quite a large number of changes from /trunk to your new
/silver and resolving these differences will take some time.
If I just applied your version to /trunk a number of changes
there would end up being reverted, or vice-versa. It is better
I think, to compare the changes more closely and then for
someone to send you patches against the new /silver for you
to evaluate and possibly apply to axiom--silver--1. That way
the automatic update will gradually make the twi roots more
nearly identical. Eventually we can remove one or the other
when they no longer serve any purpose.

Let me know what you think of this arrangement.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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> We could also display the dvi, but then src/scripts/document would
> have to call latex with "-src-specials" or, if that is not available,
> we would have to include the file srcltx in every pamphlet.

Would it be an option to say \usepackage{srcltx} in axiom.sty?
srcltx.sty is public domain software.

> There is yet another issue: It seems that latex -source-specials puts
> the absolute path of the original file into the dvi. I guess that at
> least kdvi won't mind for forward search (i.e., when clicking on
> INT.spad in HyperDoc the correct line will appear),

I don't quite understand. If you want to jump from INT.spad to the
corresponding line in the .dvi file then the line information should be
in INT.spad. Note that INT.spad.pamphlet is the source.

> but inverse search, (i.e., clicking in the dvi file to display the
> source) won't work.

Right. I don't know -source-specials but rather just -src (maybe it's
the same), but it won't work, because it generates sources-specials to
.tex files and not to .pamplet files.

> Maybe Ralf has a solution for that problem,

Yep. Just a small patch to srcltx.sty and you can have xdvi jumping to 
the .pamplet instead of .tex file. All explained in ALLPROSE. But nobody 
seems to be interested anyway. So why invest time?

> I cannot really imagine that there are people not using emacs ;-)

Wow, then some people must be really brilliant to be able to create a 
.doc or .sxw documents in Emacs. I couldn't do that. ;-)

Ralf



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Ralf Hemmecke <ralf@hemmecke.de> writes:

> > We could also display the dvi, but then src/scripts/document would have=
 to
> > call latex with "-src-specials" or, if that is not available, we would =
have
> > to include the file srcltx in every pamphlet.
>=20
> Would it be an option to say \usepackage{srcltx} in axiom.sty?  srcltx.st=
y is
> public domain software.

Very likely. On the other hand, I think that -source-specials *should* be
available on reasonable LaTeX installations. The docu of srcltx says in
footnote 1:

   1 E.g. a =A1=C6-src=A1=C7 option is available in MikTeX from version 1.2=
0 upwards,
     or in teTeX from version beta-20011103 or teTeX-2.0 upwards. See the
     manual of your TEX implementation for details on this.


> > There is yet another issue: It seems that latex -source-specials puts t=
he
> > absolute path of the original file into the dvi. I guess that at least =
kdvi
> > won't mind for forward search (i.e., when clicking on INT.spad in Hyper=
Doc
> > the correct line will appear),
=20
> I don't quite understand. If you want to jump from INT.spad to the
> corresponding line in the .dvi file then the line information should be in
> INT.spad. Note that INT.spad.pamphlet is the source.

Well, I just checked. A dvi generated with -src-specials does *not* contain=
 the
absolute paths. It is only kdvi which gives a misleading error message. I w=
as
confused. To jump to line 795 of Makefile.tex in Makefile.dvi you say

kdvi file:Makefile.dvi#src:795Makefile.tex

Note that

kdvi file:Makefile.dvi#src:795Makefile

or=20

kdvi file:Makefile.dvi#src:795

will not work, since there might be source-specials for several files (for
example, Makefile.tex, Makefile.toc, etc.) in the dvi...

> > but inverse search, (i.e., clicking in the dvi file to display the sour=
ce)
> > won't work.
>=20
> Right. I don't know -source-specials but rather just -src (maybe it's the
> same),

yes, it should be the same.

> but it won't work, because it generates sources-specials to .tex files and
> not to .pamplet files.
>=20
> > Maybe Ralf has a solution for that problem,
>=20
> Yep. Just a small patch to srcltx.sty and you can have xdvi jumping to the
> .pamplet instead of .tex file. All explained in ALLPROSE.

Great! Then it probably makes more sense to put srcltx into axiom.sty, as y=
ou
suggested. And in any case, the pamphlets should be installed...

> But nobody seems to be interested anyway. So why invest time?

Ralf, be assured that I like ALLPROSE. But if I read all documentation to
ALLPROSE, svn, bash, who knows what, there'd be no time for research at all=
. I
think, as author you should be prepared to answer questions even if you gave
the answer in your article, even if you answered them already a million tim=
es.



Martin

PS: please note the update to my shell script at Mathaction - issue #144





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> Well, I just checked. A dvi generated with -src-specials does *not*
> contain the absolute paths. It is only kdvi which gives a misleading
> error message. I was confused. To jump to line 795 of Makefile.tex in
> Makefile.dvi you say

Note that sometimes the full path is what you want. Imagine you produce
a .dvi file and then move it to some other place completely independent
of where your .pamphlets are. For such a case, it's better to put the
full path into the source specials.

>>> Maybe Ralf has a solution for that problem,
>> Yep. Just a small patch to srcltx.sty and you can have xdvi jumping
>> to the .pamplet instead of .tex file. All explained in ALLPROSE.
> 
> Great! Then it probably makes more sense to put srcltx into
> axiom.sty, as you suggested. And in any case, the pamphlets should be
> installed...

Well, here again, we have the same problem as with noweb and gcl etc. Do
we include it or don't we include it into the axiom distribution?

scrltx.sty is small enough to be included. We can update it from time to
time. (But it should surely be count an external part on which we
build.) However, as Martin suggested to make Hyperdoc open a .dvi file
would mean to require srcltx.sty instead of have it optional.

>> But nobody seems to be interested anyway. So why invest time?

> But if I read all documentation to ALLPROSE, svn, bash, who knows
> what, there'd be no time for research at all. I think, as author you
> should be prepared to answer questions even if you gave the answer in
> your article, even if you answered them already a million times.

I have no problem with answering questions. I was referring to the fact 
that there is not yet enough interest in this documentation format 
business. Axiom-developers seem to be happy with what is there now. No 
big complaints so far.

Ralf



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

[...]

| Gaby, is LDF the right variable to set or do we need extra one?

No, it will soon be gone. See how I handled X11.

-- Gaby



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> Tim,
> 
> On Wednesday, October 25, 2006 9:03 PM you wrote:
> > 
> > I did a checkout of the sourceforge SVN root.
> > I'll diff the SVN vs axiom--silver--1 so nothing gets lost.
> > 
> 
> Ok. After a little messing things up, I think I now have a
> working automatic procedure to update the SVN silver repository
> with the changes that you commit to the tla axiom--silver--1
> archive.
> 
> In the end I decided to leave SVN /trunk alone and to create
> a new top level root called /silver
> 
> https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom/silver
> 
> This should also get migrated to the Google Code repository
> during the next 24 hours or so (the great google willing ;).
> 
> To the best of my ability to research the subject, it seems
> that having two (or more) roots in an svn repository will not
> cause any problems.
> 
> The reason I decided to leave /trunk was that in fact there
> are quite a large number of changes from /trunk to your new
> /silver and resolving these differences will take some time.
> If I just applied your version to /trunk a number of changes
> there would end up being reverted, or vice-versa. It is better
> I think, to compare the changes more closely and then for
> someone to send you patches against the new /silver for you
> to evaluate and possibly apply to axiom--silver--1. That way
> the automatic update will gradually make the twi roots more
> nearly identical. Eventually we can remove one or the other
> when they no longer serve any purpose.
> 

I have fetsche /silver from SourceForge.  I do not understand why
you write about big differences. The biggest difference is that
/silver contains .arch-ids subdirectories. AFAICS essential differences
are tiny (869 lines).  /silver has tla-1.1.tar.gz (IIRC removed
from /trunk) and /trunk has PATCH49-50.  Also, /trunk has added ChangeLog
to some subdirectories. 


BTW: I run:

diff -ru --exclude=.svn ../axiom1/silver/axiom/ silver2 > s_s2.diff 2>&1

where ../axiom1/silver/axiom/ contains current SourceForge trunk and
silver2 freshly checked out /silver. That gave me 1081 lines of differences.
201 lines are messages about .arch-ids subdirectories.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Greetings!  num-lock does not appear to affect anything.

Take care,

root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

> I believe there was a reported issue with hyperdoc input.
> Check to see if you have num-lock enabled.
> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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Greetings, and thanks!

Can anyone see what this might suggest in the sman code?

Take care,

Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

> root wrote:
> > Camm,
> > 
> > Architecturally there is a process called sman which starts up
> > other processes including axiomsys, which is a saved GCL image.
> > sman handles the terminal. by default a special terminal handler
> > called 'clef' (command line edit function) which is our own version
> > of readline-like handling is started.
> > 
> > try starting axiom with
> > 
> >   axiom -noclef
> > 
> > and see if the problem still happens.
> > 
> 
> Reproducible (using build-improvements) both with and without clef.
> When AXIOMsys is run directly ^D exits it. When AXIOMsys is run via
> clef ^D\n exits it.  With sman present Axiom crashes.
> 
> -- 
>                               Waldek Hebisch
> hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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To: "Waldek Hebisch" <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
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On Friday, October 27, 2006 9:08 AM Waldek Hebisch wrote:

> ...
> Bill Page wrote:=20
> > The reason I decided to leave /trunk was that in fact there
> > are quite a large number of changes from /trunk to your new
> > /silver and resolving these differences will take some time.
> > If I just applied your version to /trunk a number of changes
> > there would end up being reverted, or vice-versa. It is better
> > I think, to compare the changes more closely and then for
> > someone to send you patches against the new /silver for you
> > to evaluate and possibly apply to axiom--silver--1. That way
> > the automatic update will gradually make the twi roots more
> > nearly identical. Eventually we can remove one or the other
> > when they no longer serve any purpose.
> >=20
>=20
> I have fetsche /silver from SourceForge.  I do not understand
> why you write about big differences. The biggest difference is
> that /silver contains .arch-ids subdirectories.

These should be removed. I tried to set property 'svn:ignore' to
'.arch-ids' prior to updating the repository but I must have done
something wrong or misunderstood how this interacts with the
mirroring tools.

> AFAICS essential differences are tiny (869 lines).

That's about 800 lines more than I could handle last night ...
:-) I am very glad you are looking at this.

> /silver has tla-1.1.tar.gz (IIRC removed from /trunk) and

I we need a list to Tim of the proposed files to delete from
Axiom Silver.

> /trunk has PATCH49-50.

I think that was only a temporary note left by Tim duing is
last failed svn update attempts. I can probably be deleted
after we verify that the issues have been addressed.

> Also, /trunk has added ChangeLog to some subdirectories.=20
>

Maybe we need to discuss this ChangeLog policy. At one
point Gaby started adding per directory ChangeLogs, but
Tim has only every used one central log.
=20
>=20
> BTW: I run:
>=20
> diff -ru --exclude=3D.svn ../axiom1/silver/axiom/ silver2 >=20
> s_s2.diff 2>&1
>

Rather than just excluding the administrative files, I think
we should find methods to eliminate everything that is not
absolutely required by the actuall source code system currently
controling the source.
=20
> where ../axiom1/silver/axiom/ contains current SourceForge
> trunk and silver2 freshly checked out /silver. That gave me
> 1081 lines of differences. 201 lines are messages about
> .arch-ids subdirectories.
>=20

Thanks.

If you are able to identify and annonate the chunks of this
changeset that represent deletions, additions and those that
need further discussion, I think that would be great. Except
for the issue of the annoying '.arch-ids' files, I still think
the best approach to synchronize /silver and /trunk would be
for Tim to apply the necessary patchs to his tla archive
'axiom--silver--1'. I think we need to get the workflow running
properly and automatically from axiom--silver--1 into /silver
and manually from /silver back to Tim as I suggested in a
previous email.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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To: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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From: Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com>
Date: 27 Oct 2006 10:01:05 -0400
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Thanks!  I'll be doing likewise in cvs head.

Take care,

Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

> Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:
> 
> | Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com> writes:
> | 
> | | Greetings!  OK, should be optional now.  Please let me know if not.
> | 
> | Camm --
> | 
> |   Thanks for the quick fix.
> | 
> | Now, the build progressed further but still I hit a regression when I
> | try to install it in a specifc location (it worked with earlier versions):
> | 
> |     make[4]: [gcl-si.info] Error 1 (ignored)
> |     make[4]: Leaving directory `/home/gdr/build/axiom/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/info'
> |     make[4]: Entering directory `/home/gdr/build/axiom/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/info'
> |     mkdir -p /usr/share/info/
> |     [ -f /usr/share/info/dir ] || touch /usr/share/info/dir
> |     grep gcl-si /usr/share/info/dir >/dev/null 2>&1 || \
> |     echo "* GCL Doc: (gcl-si.info). GNU Common Lisp specific Documentation." >> /usr/share/info/dir
> |     /bin/sh: /usr/share/info/dir: Permission denied
> |     make[4]: *** [install] Error 1
> | 
> | My preliminary analysis is that GCL is insisting to install info files
> | in a directory (/usr/share/info) which is not part of what is
> | specified as --prefix and on which I do not have a write permission
> | (and even if I had a write permission, it would still be wrong).
> 
> In configure.in, GCL as a machinery to check for where to install the
> info files.  With a default value as $prefix/share/info.  That is perfect.
> However, down the road, GCL changes its mind and wanted to know
> whether /usr/share/info/dir exits, and if it does then it would install the
> info files there.  That is not right.
> 
>     if  test -f "${INFO_DIR}dir"  ; then true;else
>     if test -f /usr/share/info/dir ; then
>       INFO_DIR=/usr/share/info/
>     else true;
>     fi
>     fi
> 
> I'll be checking in a patch that removes that.
> 
> -- Gaby
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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To: daly@axiom-developer.org
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Greetings!

root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

> Camm,
> 
> I just tried a build of GCL on Fedora Core 5.
> It fails as follows:
> 
> >rm raw_pre_gcl init_pre_gcl.lisp
> make[4]: Leaving directory '/root/silver3/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport'
> (cd lsp; touch *.lsp ; make all)
> make[4]: Entering directory '/root/silver3/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/lsp'
> 
> Unrecoverable error: Segmentation violation..
> ../xbin/if-exists: line 13: 9412 Aborted            $3
> gcc: gcl_arraylib.c: No such file or directory
> gcc: no input files
> cat: gcl_arraylib.data: No such file or directory
> 

My money at this juncture is on the randomized sbrk, which has already
broken the GCL build twice on Fedora.  Sigh.

Please check the configure output for randomized sbrk.  And then
please

./configure --enable-debug && make
cd unixport
make raw_pre_gcl
gdb raw_pre_gcl
(gdb) r ./

and please then post the location of the segfault.




> 
> 
> gcc --version
> gcc (GCC) 4.1.0 20060304 (Red Hat 4.1.0-3)
> 
> 
> 
> The version of gcl is the one called gcl-2.6.8pre in the axiom/zips
> directory. I'm now going to retry the build using gcl-2.6.8pre2 
> which is a slightly later version. If that fails I'll check out
> the HEAD and try that.

Just to clarify, there are two active gcl branches at the moment,
2.6.8pre, and 'head'.  The latter is the experimental 2.7.0 and is not
yet ready for production.  The former is a bugfix only point release
agains tthe stable 2.6.7.  So please be sure to add -r
Version_2_6_8pre to your cvs checkouts.

Take care,


> 
> Tim
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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Greetings!

root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

> > Separately, The hypertex ptyopen area on Debian is solved by
> > 
> > mount -t devpts devpts /dev/pts
> 
> This is FAQ 17.
> 
> 
> > as on one of the wiki pages, and, if necessary,
> > 
> > mount -o bind /dev/pts /unstable_chroot/dev/pts
> 
> unstable_chroot?
> 

On Debian systems, it is common to run the stable distribution, and
then reserve a specific area of disk for the unstable distribution,
which one can use as if it were the entire installed OS via 'dchroot
unstable'.  To make this work, certain directories have to be
accessible to both systems, and bind mounting is the usual solution.
I think the original poster complained of problems in a chroot.
Without the second, the first mount will not solve the problem in a
chroot environment.

Take care,

> t
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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Dear Waldek, Gaby,

somewhat unfortunately, I cannot reproduce the failure anymore. Possibly the
administrators changed something, I don't know. It seems that there is now a
link to libreadline.so.5 from libreadline.so that was not present when the
build failed.

I'm very sorry for troubling you,

Martin

Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

> Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> > root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
> > 
> > | do a symbolic link from libreadline.so.4 to libreadline.so
> > 
> > All suggestions I've seen so far look like that one.  Can anyone
> > explain why  that is supposed to do anything sensible?
> > 
> > I would not like to see Axiom, a scientific computational platform,
> > built on superstition.
> 
> We should really ask Martion what the following commands give:
> 
> ldd /users/rubey/axiom/mnt/linux/bin/AXIOMsys
> ldd /users/rubey/axiom/obj/linux/bin/interpsys
> 
> I ask about interpsys because it is used during build and normally
> it also links readline. On Debian systems there is 
> '/usr/lib/libreadline.so' which is a link to '/lib/libreadline.so.5'
> AXIOMsys compiled on machine where libreadline.so.5 is installed
> should look for libreadline.so.5 (and not for libreadline.so.4).
> So either Martin is using binary build on different system or
> there is somewhere libreadline.so.4 which was picked when linking
> AXIOMsys, but is not in the paths searched by dynamic linker.
> One typical case is when program contains its own sources of
> shared libraries -- program may succesfully link against such
> shared library but it can not run because by default dynamic
> linker searches only standard locations (in fact I suspected
> for a moment that Axiom has own copy of readline stashed
> somewhere, but after checking I think it is not the case).
> I would try first typing:
> 
> locate libreadline.so.4
> 
> which on one of Debian machines found '/lib/libreadline.so.4'
> (this one is from compat package and should work fine, but
> something more strange may cause troubles).
> -- 
>                               Waldek Hebisch
> hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Axiom-developer mailing list
> Axiom-developer@nongnu.org
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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] Re: Bug#346552: naive methods of exiting
	axiomcan blow up catastrophically
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 10:36:45 -0400
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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
To: "Camm Maguire" <camm@enhanced.com>
Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org, hex@freezone.co.uk, control@bugs.debian.org,
	346552@bugs.debian.org
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On Friday, October 27, 2006 9:52 AM Camm Maguire wrote:
>=20
> Can anyone see what this might suggest in the sman code?
>=20
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
>
> Tim Daly wrote:=20
> > >=20
> > > try starting axiom with
> > >=20
> > >   axiom -noclef
> > >=20
> > > and see if the problem still happens.
> > >=20
> >=20
> > Reproducible (using build-improvements) both with and without
> > clef.

When the command 'axiom -noclef' is run, the process tree
looks like this:

   $ axiom -noclef

                      user i/o
         sman . . .    /\   /\
         . .         ./       \
        .    .       /  .      \
       .      .    \/      .    \/
  graphics=3D=3D=3D=3DAXIOMsys =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D hyperdoc

                                          /\
where =3D=3D=3D=3D represents a unix socket and \/   represents
serial pty and . . . is a sub-process.

Right?

The version with clef in place, I suppose would look like
this:

   $ axiom

                        user i/o
            sman . .      /\ /\
            .    .   .   /     \
           ..     .    ./       \
          .  .     .  \/  .      \
         .    .     clef    .     \
        .      .     /\       .    \
       .        .  \/           .   \/
  graphics=3D=3D=3D=3DAXIOMsys =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D hyperdoc

> > When AXIOMsys is run directly ^D exits it.

Does ^D send an end-of-file condition to the pty interface?

I suppose that when you say AXIOMsys run directly you
mean the following single process:

   $ AXIOMsys

       User i/o
          |\
          |
         \|
      AXIOMsys

> When AXIOMsys is run via clef ^D\n exits it.

I am not sure how to create this situation. What options
to the 'axiom' script did you use?

> With sman present Axiom crashes.

My impression was the sman is always present except when
running AXIOMsys directly since it's purpose is to start
the other sub-processes in the tree and to assist with
setting up sockets etc.

Any help understanding this would be great.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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To: Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] yet another problem with dependencies
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Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at> writes:

| Dear Waldek, Gaby,
| 
| somewhat unfortunately, I cannot reproduce the failure anymore. Possibly the
| administrators changed something, I don't know. It seems that there is now a
| link to libreadline.so.5 from libreadline.so that was not present when the
| build failed.
| 
| I'm very sorry for troubling you,

Please don't be.  I'm glad to hear the build is now working for you.

-- Gaby



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To: Ralf Hemmecke <ralf@hemmecke.de>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: Patch for SPADEDIT
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Ralf Hemmecke <ralf@hemmecke.de> writes:

| > We could also display the dvi, but then src/scripts/document would
| > have to call latex with "-src-specials" or, if that is not available,
| > we would have to include the file srcltx in every pamphlet.
| 
| Would it be an option to say \usepackage{srcltx} in axiom.sty?
| srcltx.sty is public domain software.
| 
| > There is yet another issue: It seems that latex -source-specials puts
| > the absolute path of the original file into the dvi. I guess that at
| > least kdvi won't mind for forward search (i.e., when clicking on
| > INT.spad in HyperDoc the correct line will appear),
| 
| I don't quite understand. If you want to jump from INT.spad to the
| corresponding line in the .dvi file then the line information should be
| in INT.spad. Note that INT.spad.pamphlet is the source.

My inclination would be: just fire up $EDITOR on the _installed_
source (or if $EDITOR is not set, fire up vi).

-- Gaby



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There are a fair number of things "fixed" and a discussion of "fixes"
but there aren't any patches posted.

The procedure we agreed upon was that we would post patches to
the mailing list against the gold branch using

  diff -Naur goldpamphlet newpamphlet




I mention this because I can see a problem developing.
Gaby originally set out to make a global change to axiom for autotools.
This was the stated intention of the build-improvements branch.

There are a large number of "fixes" being applied which appear to
have nothing to do with autotools, such as the sttaylor fix and the
sage change. Worse yet, it appears that the sage connection won't work 
with gold so sage users cannot get the latest axiom "gold" release.

Careful thought will show that this is going to be a major future problem. 

Consider what happens when the time comes for build-improvements to be
merged with silver. There will be hundreds of differences, many of which
will have nothing to do with the build process. 

Each difference has to be fully documented (which I don't see anywhere). 
Each difference has to be tested (and I don't see any test cases anywhere).
Each difference has to be merged and then tested on many platforms 
(pty fixes are going to take a lot of time and testing). 

I'm impressed with the rate of change of fixes and I don't want to 
slow the motion but I think it would be wise to consider submitting
documented, tested fixes against gold if they do not require autotools.

t



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To: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: Patch for SPADEDIT
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Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

> Ralf Hemmecke <ralf@hemmecke.de> writes:
> 
> | > We could also display the dvi, but then src/scripts/document would
> | > have to call latex with "-src-specials" or, if that is not available,
> | > we would have to include the file srcltx in every pamphlet.
> | 
> | Would it be an option to say \usepackage{srcltx} in axiom.sty?
> | srcltx.sty is public domain software.
> | 
> | > There is yet another issue: It seems that latex -source-specials puts
> | > the absolute path of the original file into the dvi. I guess that at
> | > least kdvi won't mind for forward search (i.e., when clicking on
> | > INT.spad in HyperDoc the correct line will appear),
> | 
> | I don't quite understand. If you want to jump from INT.spad to the
> | corresponding line in the .dvi file then the line information should be
> | in INT.spad. Note that INT.spad.pamphlet is the source.
> 
> My inclination would be: just fire up $EDITOR on the _installed_
> source (or if $EDITOR is not set, fire up vi).

That's not sufficient, since we also want to have the editor point to the right
place. I get the line number by doing a grep.

(Did you read my SPADEDIT.pamphlet? I even wrote some documentation!)

Of course, it makes no difference whether I grep the .spad or the .pamphlet
files. But really, we should be firing up the dvi viewer with the literate
source. If you really want the source code itself, you then just press the
middle button in the dvi viewer.

But for that, we need to have srcltx with Ralf's patch and first of all, the
pamphlets installed.

It is very strange that only the spad files are installed anyway. That's not
really encouraging literate programming ...

Martin




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Greetings!

"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

> Camm,
> 
> On Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:01 PM you asked:
> > 
> > Greetings!  Just wondering if this is the last axiom issue with
> > 2.6.8pre outstanding.  If not, what are the others?  If more testing
> > time is needed to answer this, how much more?
> >
> 
> Here is the debugging output you asked for in your previous email.
> 
> On Thursday, October 26, 2006 4:41 PM you wrote:
> > ... 
> > Please verify this by stepping through with n and this point.  In
> > fact, if you can step from this point to the bottom of this for loop
> > iteration, and then
> > 
> > (gdb) p 
> > *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FALSE,M
> Y_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_TRUE)
> > 
> > that would be most helpful.  
> > 
> 
> -------- 
> 
> (gdb) cond 1 (int) strstr(q[u]->name,"srget")
> (gdb) c
> Continuing.
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> Building symbol table for
> /private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixpor
> t/raw_pre_gcl.tmp ..
> 
> Breakpoint 1, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:65
> 65          if (strncmp(q[u]->section->name,"*UND*",5) && !(q[u]->flags
> & BSF_WEAK))
> (gdb) p q[u]->name
> $1 = 0x5742d1 "___srget"
> (gdb) p q[u]->section->name
> $2 = 0x114e74 "*UND*"
> (gdb) p q[u]->flags
> $3 = 2
> (gdb) n
> 68          if ((c=(char *)strstr(q[u]->name,"@@"))) {
> (gdb) n
> 73          } else if
> (gdb) n
> 78          if (h->type!=bfd_link_hash_defined) {
> (gdb) n
> 79            if (!q[u]->section)
> (gdb) n
> 81            if (!my_plt(q[u]->name,&pa)) {
> (gdb) n
> 88            if (q[u]->value) {
> (gdb) n
> 95          if (c) {
> (gdb) p
> *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_FALS
> E,MY_BFD_TRUE)
> No symbol "MY_BFD_FALSE" in current context.
> (gdb) p *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,0,0,MY_BFD_TRUE)
> No symbol "MY_BFD_TRUE" in current context.
> (gdb) p *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,0,0,1)
> $4 = {
>   root = {
>     next = 0x0,
>     string = 0x76db28 "___srget",
>     hash = 163640344
>   },
>   type = bfd_link_hash_undefined,
>   u = {
>     undef = {
>       next = 0x76db34,
>       abfd = 0x54a2f0,
>       weak = 0x0
>     },
>     def = {
>       next = 0x76db34,
>       section = 0x54a2f0,
>       value = 0
>     },
>     i = {
>       next = 0x76db34,
>       link = 0x54a2f0,
>       warning = 0x0
>     },
>     c = {
>       next = 0x76db34,
>       p = 0x54a2f0,
>       size = 0
>     }
>   }
> }

Perfect!  Here is the problem -- the symbol has no value, to the code
never defines its address

> 88            if (q[u]->value) {

>   type = bfd_link_hash_undefined,

It would be helpful if you could break at line 89, and make sure that
other symbols are defined through their symbol value.  Preferably,
others in plt.h.

But before this, please step into my_plt with

(gdb) s

and step through the code.

This is also of interest therein:

(gdb) p mplt

and, before executing line 180:

(gdb) b pltcomp

then at each break into pltcomp, try to see why the named symbol is
not found.

BTW, is this macosx intel?  If not, has anyone tried this?

Take care,

> (gdb) n
> 58        for (u=0;u<v;u++) {
> (gdb)
> 
> ------------
> 
> I guess it didn't know MY_BFD_FALSE and MY_BFD_TRUE but I
> took a wild guess at what these symbols might be. Is this
> output useful to you?
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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> To the best of my ability to research the subject, it seems
> that having two (or more) roots in an svn repository will not
> cause any problems.

The trunk/branch/tags are just names and have no significance
in SVN. They are there by convention.


t




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> The reason I decided to leave /trunk was that in fact there
> are quite a large number of changes from /trunk to your new
> /silver and resolving these differences will take some time.
> If I just applied your version to /trunk a number of changes
> there would end up being reverted, or vice-versa. It is better
> I think, to compare the changes more closely and then for
> someone to send you patches against the new /silver for you
> to evaluate and possibly apply to axiom--silver--1. That way
> the automatic update will gradually make the twi roots more
> nearly identical. Eventually we can remove one or the other
> when they no longer serve any purpose.

This is on the queue to do. /trunk was axiom49 which confuses
the issue so we have to be careful about changes. Fortunately
every change is well documented :-)

It's more tedious checking work but fortunately it only needs
to be done once. 





t




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Your automatic procedure should show the top entry in CHANGELOG of:

20061026 tpd src/interp/setq.lisp add Christian Aistleitner

If this is NOT the top entry then something is broken.


t




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> Let me know what you think of this arrangement.

You do realize that this leaves the build-improvement branch as
a true fork since it is no longer "rooted" at axiom49 in the SVN tree.

I think we need a person to volunteer to be the "patch-pusher"
between build-improvements and silver. The job involves 

1) lifting out and purifying a difference between silver and BI.
2) checking the documentation
3) applying the change to a copy of silver (bronze == silver + one change)
4) testing bronze
5) sending a "diff -Naur silver bronze" to the mailing list
6) making sure it gets applied.
7) rinse and repeat


t




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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
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On Friday, October 27, 2006 11:05 AM Martin Rubey wrote:

> ...
> But really, we should be firing up the dvi viewer with the
> literate source. If you really want the source code itself,
> you then just press the middle button in the dvi viewer.
>

Yes! +1

Ideally the editor that is invoked by the middle button should
include pamphlet/noweb-aware extensions to handle "tangle" and
"run" such as on the Pamphlet pages on the Wiki.
=20
> But for that, we need to have srcltx with Ralf's patch and=20
> first of all, the pamphlets installed.
>=20
> It is very strange that only the spad files are installed=20
> anyway. That's not really encouraging literate programming ...
>=20

I agree. We should scrap those old .spad files and replace
them with pamphlet files and the corresponding dvi's. Tim has
suggested this before on several occassions. My understanding
is that he plans (eventually) to provide some pamphlet-aware
options on the )compile and )read commands.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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> I have fetsche /silver from SourceForge.  I do not understand why
> you write about big differences. The biggest difference is that
> /silver contains .arch-ids subdirectories. AFAICS essential differences
> are tiny (869 lines).  /silver has tla-1.1.tar.gz (IIRC removed
> from /trunk) and /trunk has PATCH49-50.  Also, /trunk has added ChangeLog
> to some subdirectories. 

I believe the differences are between the old trunk and axiom--silver--1,
not between sourceforge/silver and axiom--silver--1

t



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> On Debian systems, it is common to run the stable distribution, and
> then reserve a specific area of disk for the unstable distribution,
> which one can use as if it were the entire installed OS via 'dchroot
> unstable'.  To make this work, certain directories have to be
> accessible to both systems, and bind mounting is the usual solution.
> I think the original poster complained of problems in a chroot.
> Without the second, the first mount will not solve the problem in a
> chroot environment.

ok. i'll add it to FAQ 17.

t



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On Friday, October 27, 2006 11:06 AM Tim Daly wrote:
> Bill Page wrote: [new /silver root at SourceForge]
> > Let me know what you think of this arrangement.
>=20
> You do realize that this leaves the build-improvement branch
> as a true fork since it is no longer "rooted" at axiom49 in
> the SVN tree.

Yes, I thought about that. That is another reason why I decided
not to remove /trunk right now. As you said previously, /trunk
is patch-49 (almost, just a few changes).

I agree that build-improvements is rapidly gaining distance
on /trunk and Axiom Gold. In my opinion (but I don't know how
Gaby feels about this), build-improvements is now nearly stable
enough to be merged back. I think it should be merged back to
the new /silver root instead of /trunk. /trunk (as it exists
today) should disappear.

>=20
> I think we need a person to volunteer to be the "patch-pusher"
> between build-improvements and silver. The job involves=20
>=20
> 1) lifting out and purifying a difference between silver and BI.
> 2) checking the documentation
> 3) applying the change to a copy of silver (bronze =3D=3D silver=20
> + one change)
> 4) testing bronze
> 5) sending a "diff -Naur silver bronze" to the mailing list
> 6) making sure it gets applied.
> 7) rinse and repeat
>=20

Yes.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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patch applied as axiom--silver--1--patch-4


> On Debian systems, it is common to run the stable distribution, and
> then reserve a specific area of disk for the unstable distribution,
> which one can use as if it were the entire installed OS via 'dchroot
> unstable'.  To make this work, certain directories have to be
> accessible to both systems, and bind mounting is the usual solution.
> I think the original poster complained of problems in a chroot.
> Without the second, the first mount will not solve the problem in a
> chroot environment.




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> | > There is yet another issue: It seems that latex -source-specials puts
> | > the absolute path of the original file into the dvi. I guess that at
> | > least kdvi won't mind for forward search (i.e., when clicking on
> | > INT.spad in HyperDoc the correct line will appear),
> | 
> | I don't quite understand. If you want to jump from INT.spad to the
> | corresponding line in the .dvi file then the line information should be
> | in INT.spad. Note that INT.spad.pamphlet is the source.
> 
> My inclination would be: just fire up $EDITOR on the _installed_
> source (or if $EDITOR is not set, fire up vi).

Well, as you know there is no generic way to tell $EDITOR to place the 
cursor in line N of file F. If you go the same way as kdvi or xdvi then 
the target editor has to be configured (in kdvi/xdvi) together with the 
command line options that treat the line number and the filename.

Ralf



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From: root <daly@axiom-developer.org>
To: camm@enhanced.com
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	on 27 Oct 2006 09:51:32 -0400)
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	can blow up catastrophically
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> Greetings, and thanks!
> 
> Can anyone see what this might suggest in the sman code?
> 
> Take care,
> 
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> > root wrote:
> > > Camm,
> > > 
> > > Architecturally there is a process called sman which starts up
> > > other processes including axiomsys, which is a saved GCL image.
> > > sman handles the terminal. by default a special terminal handler
> > > called 'clef' (command line edit function) which is our own version
> > > of readline-like handling is started.
> > > 
> > > try starting axiom with
> > > 
> > >   axiom -noclef
> > > 
> > > and see if the problem still happens.
> > > 
> > 
> > Reproducible (using build-improvements) both with and without clef.
> > When AXIOMsys is run directly ^D exits it. When AXIOMsys is run via
> > clef ^D\n exits it.  With sman present Axiom crashes.

Apparently the ptys are opened in raw mode and do not interpret the
control characters but pass them down the pipe to AXIOMsys. However
the (read) from axiom simply gets the cntrl-D and tries to parse it.

I'm not really sure how this should be handled. Clearly you don't
want sman to open up a pty that interprets control characters.
Nor do you want lisp's (read) to interpret control characters.

Which raises the question.... why are you trying to pass cntrl-D
and what do you expect to happen? And why do you expect this?

t



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Tim,=20

On Friday, October 27, 2006 11:06 AM you wrote:
>=20
> Your automatic procedure should show the top entry in CHANGELOG
> of:
>=20
> 20061026 tpd src/interp/setq.lisp add Christian Aistleitner
>=20
> If this is NOT the top entry then something is broken.
>=20

Looks ok to me:

http://axiom.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/axiom/silver/CHANGELOG?revision=3D=

218&view=3Dmarkup

...

Original author: Tim Daly <root@home>
Date: 2006-10-26 15:16:20-04:00

    1 20061026 tpd src/interp/setq.lisp add Christian Aistleitner
    2 20061026 tpd README add Christian Aistleitner
    3 20061026 tpd src/interp/sockio.lisp use double on sock_send_float
    ...

Right?

Regards,
Bill Page.



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> > 
> > Your automatic procedure should show the top entry in CHANGELOG
> > of:
> 
> Looks ok to me:
> 
> http://axiom.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/axiom/silver/CHANGELOG?revision=
> 218&view=markup
> 
> ...
> 
> Original author: Tim Daly <root@home>
> Date: 2006-10-26 15:16:20-04:00
> 
>     1 20061026 tpd src/interp/setq.lisp add Christian Aistleitner
>     2 20061026 tpd README add Christian Aistleitner
>     3 20061026 tpd src/interp/sockio.lisp use double on sock_send_float
>     ...
> 
> Right?

sweet. nice job. --t



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| There are a large number of "fixes" being applied which appear to
| have nothing to do with autotools, such as the sttaylor fix and the
| sage change. Worse yet, it appears that the sage connection won't work 
| with gold so sage users cannot get the latest axiom "gold" release.

Which "Sage connection" patch do you have in mind?

| Careful thought will show that this is going to be a major future problem. 
| 
| Consider what happens when the time comes for build-improvements to be
| merged with silver. There will be hundreds of differences, many of which
| will have nothing to do with the build process. 
| 
| Each difference has to be fully documented (which I don't see anywhere). 
| Each difference has to be tested (and I don't see any test cases anywhere).
| Each difference has to be merged and then tested on many platforms 
| (pty fixes are going to take a lot of time and testing). 
| 
| I'm impressed with the rate of change of fixes and I don't want to 
| slow the motion but I think it would be wise to consider submitting
| documented, tested fixes against gold if they do not require autotools.

I'm quite impressed you're worried about possible forks, as you have
stated at multiple times in the past that "it is open source and
everybody is free to take the directions they want".

That said, I'm not a big fan of forks -- on average, they are wsted efforts
and community fractures.  But I'm not worried too much,
because build-improvements is, well, about improving the current build
process.  There are a number of issues that need to be fixed on
build-improvements.  Patches against silver for such things are less
relevant. (Though I don't think sage connection is one of them).

Also, please keep in mind that people will be tempted to apply fixes
where they see activity.  That is in the nature of open source (and
software development i general).  You can hardly blame them.

-- Gaby



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Ralf Hemmecke <ralf@hemmecke.de> writes:

| > | > There is yet another issue: It seems that latex -source-specials puts
| > | > the absolute path of the original file into the dvi. I guess that at
| > | > least kdvi won't mind for forward search (i.e., when clicking on
| > | > INT.spad in HyperDoc the correct line will appear),
| > | | I don't quite understand. If you want to jump from INT.spad to
| > the
| > | corresponding line in the .dvi file then the line information should be
| > | in INT.spad. Note that INT.spad.pamphlet is the source.
| > My inclination would be: just fire up $EDITOR on the _installed_
| > source (or if $EDITOR is not set, fire up vi).
| 
| Well, as you know there is no generic way to tell $EDITOR to place the
| cursor in line N of file F. If you go the same way as kdvi or xdvi
| then the target editor has to be configured (in kdvi/xdvi) together
| with the command line options that treat the line number and the
| filename.

If you want to fire up kdvi, you have to test for it in configure.
Similarly for xdvi.  If you want to make it an absolute requirement,
you may upset people.  You can at configure time detect what tools
are available and generate the corresponding editor script.  

-- Gaby



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On 10/27/2006 05:28 PM, Page, Bill wrote:
> On Friday, October 27, 2006 11:06 AM Tim Daly wrote:
>> Bill Page wrote: [new /silver root at SourceForge]
>>> Let me know what you think of this arrangement.
>> You do realize that this leaves the build-improvement branch
>> as a true fork since it is no longer "rooted" at axiom49 in
>> the SVN tree.
> 
> Yes, I thought about that. That is another reason why I decided
> not to remove /trunk right now. As you said previously, /trunk
> is patch-49 (almost, just a few changes).

Hmm, then someone removed Tim's update to patch-50 (trunk r115 on 
Sourceforge) and my corrections of the binaries (trunk r137).

When I checked r137 with Gold, there were basically only these temporary 
files of Time that Silver had more than Gold. Otherwise Silver was patch-50.

See
http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/axiom-developer/2006-09/msg00414.html

Ralf



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > Let me know what you think of this arrangement.
| 
| You do realize that this leaves the build-improvement branch as
| a true fork since it is no longer "rooted" at axiom49 in the SVN tree.
| 
| I think we need a person to volunteer to be the "patch-pusher"
| between build-improvements and silver.

When build-improvements is ready to be merged into trunk, I'll propose
it.  Build-improvements is ready when the TODO list has been moved to
"done" section and tested adequately.  If you believe you want merge
piecemeal, go for it.  Just beware that that is going to cause troubles
and I don't volunteer to help with piecemeal merges.

-- Gaby



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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

[...]

| I agree that build-improvements is rapidly gaining distance
| on /trunk and Axiom Gold. In my opinion (but I don't know how
| Gaby feels about this), build-improvements is now nearly stable
| enough to be merged back.

There are a couple of issues to be solved, and I'm quite sure it is
stable as you believe -- I have two massive changes in my local trees,
not merged yet.  The reason being I did not have time to do it
yesterday.


Build-improvements is not a fork -- I'm not a big fan or forks.
I did consider a fork several times, and at each occasion rejected the
idea. 


I'm quite impressed that Tim is councerned about forks.

-- Gaby



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On Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Gaby wrote:
>
> Tim Daly wrote writes:
>=20
> [...]
>=20
> | There are a large number of "fixes" being applied which appear
> | to have nothing to do with autotools, such as the sttaylor fix
> | and the sage change. Worse yet, it appears that the sage
> | connection won't work with gold so sage users cannot get the
> | latest axiom "gold" release.
>=20
> Which "Sage connection" patch do you have in mind?
>=20

I recently prepared a source package (spkg) for Sage that allows
Sage users to easily install Axiom by just doing

  $ sage -I axiom4sage-0.1.spkg

Sage supervises build Axiom from source - well actually it just
calls a script included in the spkg - but to sage users this
should "feel" very easy because they are used to doing the same
thing with several other optional Sage packages.

axiom4sage-0.1.spkg is built using the experimental build-
improvements Axiom source distribution because I wanted to test
it and to take advantage of the flexibility of the autoconf
tools to allow Axiom to be built on as wide a range of platforms
as possible. In my opinion trying to do this with the current
Axiom "Gold" would have been too unpredictable on previously
untested machines. Anyway, it's alse a matter of release-often-
release-early ... Sage itself is currently in a very rapid state
of growth, so I don't think most Sage users are too worried
about using possibly unstable (experimental) software. Also
they are likely to be quite helpful in reporting bugs.

I consider Axiom Gold to be a more "conservative" alternative
and not of as much interest to (most) developers. Of course we
need to define appropriately what we mean by "developer"? :-)

Regards,
Bill Page.



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On Friday, October 27, 2006 12:07 PM Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
>
> On 10/27/2006 05:28 PM, Bill Page wrote:
> > On Friday, October 27, 2006 11:06 AM Tim Daly wrote:
> >> Bill Page wrote: [new /silver root at SourceForge]
> > ...=20
> > Yes, I thought about that. That is another reason why I decided
> > not to remove /trunk right now. As you said previously, /trunk
> > is patch-49 (almost, just a few changes).
>=20
> Hmm, then someone removed Tim's update to patch-50 (trunk r115
> on Sourceforge) and my corrections of the binaries (trunk r137).

No, I don't think so.

>=20
> When I checked r137 with Gold, there were basically only=20
> these temporary files of Time that Silver had more than Gold.
> Otherwise Silver was patch-50.
>=20
> See
>
http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/axiom-developer/2006-09/msg00414.ht
ml
>=20

Thanks for the correction.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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root wrote:
> Apparently the ptys are opened in raw mode and do not interpret the
> control characters but pass them down the pipe to AXIOMsys. However
> the (read) from axiom simply gets the cntrl-D and tries to parse it.
> 
> I'm not really sure how this should be handled. Clearly you don't
> want sman to open up a pty that interprets control characters.
> Nor do you want lisp's (read) to interpret control characters.
> 

It is not the case.  One thing is a bug in sman: when the user
presses ^D\n sman passes "(1) ->\n" (more precisly AXIOMsys
reads what is inside quotes).  AXIOMsys reacts with an error
message (exactly like if user gave this input).  Funny things
happen later: AXIOMsys sits in select loop and gets interrupt
(^C\n) _is_ converted to interrupt.  After return from the
interrupt select is called again and returns ready on file
descriptor 0.  AXIOMsys then executes READ-LINE(CURINSTREAM)
which performs _no_ IO.  My speculation is it that interrupt messed
something with CURINSTREAM. 

All this is based on system trace.  AFAICS when AXIOMsys runs
standalone there is no select loop.  I tried to give "(1) ->\n"
and then ^C to standalone AXIOMsys -- the trace looks quite similar
but AXIOMsys produces reasonable error messages.  Still, giving a
few bad inputs interspesed with ^C, I was able to generate:

   >> System error:
   Caught fatal error [memory may be damaged]

so interrupt handling in GCL probably has some problems.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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> When build-improvements is ready to be merged into trunk, I'll propose
> it.  Build-improvements is ready when the TODO list has been moved to
> "done" section and tested adequately.  If you believe you want merge
> piecemeal, go for it.  Just beware that that is going to cause troubles
> and I don't volunteer to help with piecemeal merges.

Surely you don't mean this. In a "changeset world" which is the 
philosophical reason for changing from CVS to SVN it is accepted
practice to apply related changes in a single changeset and separate
unrelated changes into different changesets. Otherwise SVN and Arch
add no value over CVS.

Following the same philosophy one would expect that the changeset
which modifies the Makefile mechanism would be independent of the
changeset that modifies sttaylor or sage.

I'm not suggesting that the Makefile-related changeset be piecemeal.

My request was that changesets which are not Makefile-related be
made against the gold branch if possible. Otherwise we are faced
with the task of untangling many unrelated changesets.

t






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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

| On Friday, October 27, 2006 11:53 AM Gaby wrote:
| >
| > Tim Daly wrote writes:
| > 
| > [...]
| > 
| > | There are a large number of "fixes" being applied which appear
| > | to have nothing to do with autotools, such as the sttaylor fix
| > | and the sage change. Worse yet, it appears that the sage
| > | connection won't work with gold so sage users cannot get the
| > | latest axiom "gold" release.
| > 
| > Which "Sage connection" patch do you have in mind?
| > 
| 
| I recently prepared a source package (spkg) for Sage that allows
| Sage users to easily install Axiom by just doing
| 
|   $ sage -I axiom4sage-0.1.spkg
| 
| Sage supervises build Axiom from source - well actually it just
| calls a script included in the spkg - but to sage users this
| should "feel" very easy because they are used to doing the same
| thing with several other optional Sage packages.

That is good news fro Axiom -- sorry for not following closer.

| axiom4sage-0.1.spkg is built using the experimental build-
| improvements Axiom source distribution because I wanted to test
| it and to take advantage of the flexibility of the autoconf
| tools to allow Axiom to be built on as wide a range of platforms
| as possible.

Indeed.  If I understand correctly, Tim is worried abotu that patch in
build-improvements.  However, unless I'm completely off, you did not
commit it to that branch right?

Your experiment should be appraised.  I'm sure you ran into issues; I
would be glad to hear of them so that we can provide fixes.

-- Gaby



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

[...]

| All this is based on system trace.  AFAICS when AXIOMsys runs
| standalone there is no select loop.  I tried to give "(1) ->\n"
| and then ^C to standalone AXIOMsys -- the trace looks quite similar
| but AXIOMsys produces reasonable error messages.  Still, giving a
| few bad inputs interspesed with ^C, I was able to generate:
| 
|    >> System error:
|    Caught fatal error [memory may be damaged]

I've been running into this "memory may be damaged" stuff very often
these days ]with students, everything is possible :-)].  Most of them
happens on invalid syntax and such.  The system should be more
resilient should not corrupt memory just because of syntax errors and
such.

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > Let me know what you think of this arrangement.
| 
| You do realize that this leaves the build-improvement branch as
| a true fork since it is no longer "rooted" at axiom49 in the SVN tree.
| 
| I think we need a person to volunteer to be the "patch-pusher"
| between build-improvements and silver. The job involves 
| 
| 1) lifting out and purifying a difference between silver and BI.
| 2) checking the documentation
| 3) applying the change to a copy of silver (bronze == silver + one change)
| 4) testing bronze
| 5) sending a "diff -Naur silver bronze" to the mailing list
| 6) making sure it gets applied.
| 7) rinse and repeat

What you want is not to merge branch-improvements back to trunk at
this moment.  Rather, you want to minimize distance as much as
possible.  Concretely, that means backporting some patches on silver
to that branch -- not the other way around.

Now, you realize why I've been so pesky about you sending patches to
the list when you apply then to your branch.  I appreciate you have
had issues with the tools.  I don't know what happened, but I'm glad
to see you're now concerned about refrain from large divergences.

For this to work properly, we have to agree on several things.

It appears that we now have at least two "trunks" under SVN --
ignoring for the moment, all the variations under other SCMs.  That is
going to be more confusing to people already confused with the current
state of the affairs.  We need to agree on THE trunk.  We also need to
agree about patch protocol.  From my perspective, much of what we
agreed on back in April 2006 still hold.  I would like to add one more
thing:  That patches to silver be "self-contained" in the sense each
patch deal with conceptually one thing -- except of course for merges
from branches to trunk where we have already set the policy I think.
The reason for that is that it makes it easy for people to select the
patches they want to see on their branches.

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: Bug#346552: naive methods of exiting
	axiomcan blow up catastrophically
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Bill Page wrote:
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> > When AXIOMsys is run via clef ^D\n exits it.
> 
> I am not sure how to create this situation. What options
> to the 'axiom' script did you use?
> 

$AXIOM/bin/clef -e $AXIOM/bin/AXIOMsys

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: Bug#346552: Axiom unsoundness
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Greetings!  Please be aware that in most cases this message is,
unfortunately, misleading about memory corruption.  Segfaults are
grouped here with a number of other errors which the error handler
cannot properly process, usually because of some bug in the error
handler.  Of course you can see if you really have a segfault with
strace, presuming you are not running with sgc on (si::sgc-on
nil). (or of course when running under gdb).

Obviously this needs improving, but an error system overhaul must wait
for 2.7.  If you can track it down to some specific gcl read error or
some such, we might be able to get a fix in 2.6.8.  I'd suggest seeing
if such an error could be triggered with AXIOMsys first, and if
necessary, check with (si::readline-off).  But at least the parent
issue appears to primarily concern sman.

Take care,

Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> [...]
> 
> | All this is based on system trace.  AFAICS when AXIOMsys runs
> | standalone there is no select loop.  I tried to give "(1) ->\n"
> | and then ^C to standalone AXIOMsys -- the trace looks quite similar
> | but AXIOMsys produces reasonable error messages.  Still, giving a
> | few bad inputs interspesed with ^C, I was able to generate:
> | 
> |    >> System error:
> |    Caught fatal error [memory may be damaged]
> 
> I've been running into this "memory may be damaged" stuff very often
> these days ]with students, everything is possible :-)].  Most of them
> happens on invalid syntax and such.  The system should be more
> resilient should not corrupt memory just because of syntax errors and
> such.
> 
> -- Gaby
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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On Friday, October 27, 2006 1:01 PM Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
>=20
> Waldek Hebisch writes:
> ...=20
> |=20
> |    >> System error:
> |    Caught fatal error [memory may be damaged]
>=20
> I've been running into this "memory may be damaged" stuff very
> often these days ]with students, everything is possible :-)].
> Most of them happens on invalid syntax and such.  The system
> should be more resilient should not corrupt memory just because
> of syntax errors and such.
>=20

Actually I believe that in *most* cases this error message
greatly over states the case and is probably rather poorly
choosen from a user psychology point of view. (Many of Axiom
error message suffer from this.) In spite of this message,
have not seen  any clear evidence of corrupt memory. Really
this is a Lisp issue and my experience with GCL is that in
spite of some surprising things that it does to manage
memory, it does in fact do quite a good job.

I'd be interested if you have any evidence actual memory
problems.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] Re: Bug#346552: naive methods of exiting
	axiomcan blow up catastrophically
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On Friday, October 27, 2006 1:28 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:

> ...
>=20
> $AXIOM/bin/clef -e $AXIOM/bin/AXIOMsys
>=20

Cool. Thanks.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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> What you want is not to merge branch-improvements back to trunk at
> this moment.  Rather, you want to minimize distance as much as
> possible.  Concretely, that means backporting some patches on silver
> to that branch -- not the other way around.

merging build-improvements can happen "when it is ready" and i suspect
it will take a fair amount of give-and-take about things like documentation
and philosophy. but i'm not suggesting we start that now.

other than the autotools items, it is in our best interest to
make axiom--silver--1 and build-improvements identical. 

so the point of the discussion was that when we make changes they
ought to go into the silver branch (which is the next world release)
if they can. and the agreed-upon mechanism is to post diff patches
against Gold to the mailing list. i don't see this happening and
it concerns me.





it raises the question of how patches should be done. 

i believe the point of the SVN repository was that multiple
people can create multiple branches to work on different things.
these different things would eventually be reviewed and, if accepted,
merged into silver and then gold.

axiom--silver--1 was created to be a pre-gold version of the system
with "early release" of changes so they can be tested.

axiom--main--1 is the "official system"

so it seems to me that SVN branches should collect up changesets,
post these as diffs to the mailing list
have these applied to silver
review, tested, and finally released as gold.

t








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Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com> writes:

| Greetings!  Please be aware that in most cases this message is,
| unfortunately, misleading about memory corruption.  Segfaults are
| grouped here with a number of other errors which the error handler
| cannot properly process, usually because of some bug in the error
| handler.  Of course you can see if you really have a segfault with
| strace, presuming you are not running with sgc on (si::sgc-on
| nil). (or of course when running under gdb).
| 
| Obviously this needs improving, but an error system overhaul must wait
| for 2.7.  If you can track it down to some specific gcl read error or
| some such, we might be able to get a fix in 2.6.8.  I'd suggest seeing
| if such an error could be triggered with AXIOMsys first, and if
| necessary, check with (si::readline-off).  But at least the parent
| issue appears to primarily concern sman.

Many thanks for the suggestion.  I'll give it a shot next week-end (this
one is already overbooked).


-- Gaby



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> It appears that we now have at least two "trunks" under SVN --
> ignoring for the moment, all the variations under other SCMs.  That is
> going to be more confusing to people already confused with the current
> state of the affairs.  We need to agree on THE trunk.

well i'm in the process of merging the old SVN/trunk with axiom--silver--1
so there will be only one SVN trunk again. the old SVN/trunk is effectively
dead.

>                                                        We also need to
> agree about patch protocol.  From my perspective, much of what we
> agreed on back in April 2006 still hold.  I would like to add one more
> thing:  That patches to silver be "self-contained" in the sense each
> patch deal with conceptually one thing -- except of course for merges
> from branches to trunk where we have already set the policy I think.
> The reason for that is that it makes it easy for people to select the
> patches they want to see on their branches.

since silver patches are being released immediately it is likely that
each changeset will be on a single topic in the future. what people
do with their individual branches is up to them. the only issue arises
when an SVN branch needs to be packaged as a changeset and merged into
silver.

t



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > When build-improvements is ready to be merged into trunk, I'll propose
| > it.  Build-improvements is ready when the TODO list has been moved to
| > "done" section and tested adequately.  If you believe you want merge
| > piecemeal, go for it.  Just beware that that is going to cause troubles
| > and I don't volunteer to help with piecemeal merges.
| 
| Surely you don't mean this.

But, I do!

| In a "changeset world" which is the 
| philosophical reason for changing from CVS to SVN it is accepted
| practice to apply related changes in a single changeset and separate
| unrelated changes into different changesets. Otherwise SVN and Arch
| add no value over CVS.

How is that different from what I'm saying?

I'm well aware of the changeset implications.
However, down the pipeline, humans are going to review the patch and
decide whether they want it or not.  What I'm saying is that at the
*conceptual* level, it is easier for the *humans* to deal with one
conceptual thing at the time, instead of a salad of stuff.

Many times you have asserted that people should write for the humans.
And  almost invariably, you have suggested exactly the opposite actions.
One example is the idea of writing one gigantic files that contains
everything. (Thankfully, that did not materialize yet).  In this case,
unless I'm off, you seem to suggest that just because the _machine_ is
capable of dealing with a salad of things, the humans should do it.  I
must disagree.

| Following the same philosophy one would expect that the changeset
| which modifies the Makefile mechanism would be independent of the
| changeset that modifies sttaylor or sage.

Have you seen a sage patch on build-improvements that did otherwise?

| I'm not suggesting that the Makefile-related changeset be piecemeal.

Then, we're in violent agreement on that specific topic.

Please, also keep in mind the "improving the build machinery" is not
just changing "Makefiles".  There is more to it.

| My request was that changesets which are not Makefile-related be
| made against the gold branch if possible.

Please, be more specific.

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > What you want is not to merge branch-improvements back to trunk at
| > this moment.  Rather, you want to minimize distance as much as
| > possible.  Concretely, that means backporting some patches on silver
| > to that branch -- not the other way around.
| 
| merging build-improvements can happen "when it is ready" and i suspect
| it will take a fair amount of give-and-take about things like documentation
| and philosophy. but i'm not suggesting we start that now.

OK.  Because, if we start now, we would be much adoo for nothing :-)

| 
| other than the autotools items, it is in our best interest to
| make axiom--silver--1 and build-improvements identical. 

I don't follow here.  There are modifications to build-improvements
that follow from improving the build machinery, that alone do not
make much sense to me to put on silver.  But, I'm no going to tell
people not to put it there if they want to -- I just find it pointless.


| so the point of the discussion was that when we make changes they
| ought to go into the silver branch (which is the next world release)
| if they can. and the agreed-upon mechanism is to post diff patches
| against Gold to the mailing list. i don't see this happening and
| it concerns me.

Please be more specific about the patches you would like to see on
silver.  Otherwise, we are navigating in vapor.

| it raises the question of how patches should be done. 
| 
| i believe the point of the SVN repository was that multiple
| people can create multiple branches to work on different things.

yes, I don't see anybody disagreeing with that.

| these different things would eventually be reviewed and, if accepted,
| merged into silver and then gold.

Again, I don't see anybody disagreeing with that.

| axiom--silver--1 was created to be a pre-gold version of the system
| with "early release" of changes so they can be tested.

How is this different from trunk (silver), which I have had until now.

| axiom--main--1 is the "official system"

Again, how is this related to the previous classification of dold and
silver branches that we have had until now.

I'm concerned about the multiplicity of systems and I would like to
have a clearer picture.  I thought I had one (i.e.: gold, silver, and
branches).  Now, I'm not sure anymore.


| so it seems to me that SVN branches should collect up changesets,
| post these as diffs to the mailing list
| have these applied to silver
| review, tested, and finally released as gold.

yes, when the get to be merged to silver.  That is what we agreed
upon, back to April 2006.

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > It appears that we now have at least two "trunks" under SVN --
| > ignoring for the moment, all the variations under other SCMs.  That is
| > going to be more confusing to people already confused with the current
| > state of the affairs.  We need to agree on THE trunk.
| 
| well i'm in the process of merging the old SVN/trunk with axiom--silver--1
| so there will be only one SVN trunk again. the old SVN/trunk is effectively
| dead.

Ah, that is good to know!

| 
| >                                                        We also need to
| > agree about patch protocol.  From my perspective, much of what we
| > agreed on back in April 2006 still hold.  I would like to add one more
| > thing:  That patches to silver be "self-contained" in the sense each
| > patch deal with conceptually one thing -- except of course for merges
| > from branches to trunk where we have already set the policy I think.
| > The reason for that is that it makes it easy for people to select the
| > patches they want to see on their branches.
| 
| since silver patches are being released immediately it is likely that
| each changeset will be on a single topic in the future.

Great!

| what people
| do with their individual branches is up to them. the only issue arises
| when an SVN branch needs to be packaged as a changeset and merged into
| silver.

We are in violent agreement.

-- Gaby



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Hi,

I follow the commands of the

  http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomSilverBranch

in orderto compile a new axiom.

So I do as root :

cd /usr/loca/
svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom/trunk axiom
svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom/trunk axiom
# I make it twice because my adsl link is too slow 
mkdir axiom-local
cd axiom-local
lndir ../axiom/silver
./configure

export AXIOM=/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux
export PATH=$AXIOM/bin:$PATH
make

Then I get an error :

The end of the make output is :

2 Environment SPAD=/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux SYS=linux SPD=/usr/local/axiom-local LSP=/usr/local/axiom-local/lsp GCLDIR=/usr/local/axiom-local/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre2 SRC=/usr/local/axiom-local/src INT=/usr/local/axiom-local/int OBJ=/usr/local/axiom-local/obj MNT=/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt ZIPS=/usr/local/axiom-local/zips TMP=/usr/local/axiom-local/obj/tmp SPADBIN=/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin INC=/usr/local/axiom-local/src/include CCLBASE=/usr/local/axiom-local/obj/linux/ccl/ccllisp PART=cprogs SUBPART=everything NOISE=-o /usr/local/axiom-local/obj/tmp/trace GCLVERSION=gcl-2.6.8pre2 TANGLE=/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/lib/notangle VERSION=Axiom (September 2006) PATCH=patch DOCUMENT=/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/document WEAVE=/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/lib/noweave
make: /usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/document : commande introuvable
make: *** [all] Erreur 127

Can you imagine what is the problem ?

Thanks a lot.

Francois



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] GIT
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Bill Page wrote:
> On Friday, October 27, 2006 9:08 AM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> > Also, /trunk has added ChangeLog to some subdirectories. 
> >
> 
> Maybe we need to discuss this ChangeLog policy. At one
> point Gaby started adding per directory ChangeLogs, but
> Tim has only every used one central log.
>

IMHO ChangeLog per directory is an overkill.  Single ChangeLog
is good for small or slowly changing project.  I would
prefer one ChangeLog per major subsystem (interp, algebra, graph,
hyper ...).
  
> > where ../axiom1/silver/axiom/ contains current SourceForge
> > trunk and silver2 freshly checked out /silver. That gave me
> > 1081 lines of differences. 201 lines are messages about
> > .arch-ids subdirectories.
> > 
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> If you are able to identify and annonate the chunks of this
> changeset that represent deletions, additions and those that
> need further discussion, I think that would be great. Except
> for the issue of the annoying '.arch-ids' files, I still think
> the best approach to synchronize /silver and /trunk would be
> for Tim to apply the necessary patchs to his tla archive
> 'axiom--silver--1'. I think we need to get the workflow running
> properly and automatically from axiom--silver--1 into /silver
> and manually from /silver back to Tim as I suggested in a
> previous email.
>

I think that as a one-time syncing operation we should apply Tim's
changes to /trunk (and Tim should look at the (very small) difference).
Once Tim's changes are in /trunk your robot can automatically
update /trunk.

Summary of the diff: there are 23 changed files.

8 files in /silver contains '\r' (carriage returns), but only 2 in /trunk

'\r' in /trunk:

zips/gcl-2.6.8pre2.cmpnew.gcl_cmpflet.lsp.patch
zips/gcl-2.6.8pre.cmpnew.gcl_cmpflet.lsp.patch

'\r' in /silver:

silver2/zips/gcl-2.6.2a.cmpnew.gcl_cmpflet.lsp.patch
silver2/zips/gcl-2.6.2.cmpnew.gcl_cmpflet.lsp.patch
silver2/zips/gcl-2.6.3.cmpnew.gcl_cmpflet.lsp.patch
silver2/zips/gcl-2.6.5.cmpnew.gcl_cmpflet.lsp.patch
silver2/zips/gcl-2.6.5w.cmpnew.gcl_cmpflet.lsp.patch
silver2/zips/gcl-2.6.6.cmpnew.gcl_cmpflet.lsp.patch
silver2/zips/gcl-2.6.8pre2.cmpnew.gcl_cmpflet.lsp.patch
silver2/zips/gcl-2.6.8pre.cmpnew.gcl_cmpflet.lsp.patch

This explains 6 differences (we probably should remove '\r') from
the remaining 2 files in /trunk

Changes in SF /trunk, but not in SF /silver (file names + ChangeLog entries):

2006-10-25  Waldek Hebisch  <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>

        * Makefile.pamphlet (${MID}/%.NRLIB/code.o): Remove old NRLIB

src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet hunk 1

2006-09-15  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>

        * tla-1.1.tar.gz: Remove.

Changes in /silver but not in /trunk (log entry + file):

No log entry
  FAQ

No log entry (move --interaction nonstopmode as first argument to latex)
  Makefile Makefile.pamphlet src/doc/Makefile.pamphlet

20061026 tpd README add Christian Aistleitner
20061018 tpd README fix baldir -> balbir
20061006 tpd README add Waldek Hebisch
20060926 tpd README add Frithjof Schulze
20060914 tpd README add Jose Alfredo Portes
  README

20060909 tpd src/algebra/catdef.spad document Semigroup
  src/algebra/catdef.spad.pamphlet

20061009 wxh src/algebra/efstruc.spad.pamphlet fix goodCoef
  src/algebra/efstruc.spad.pamphlet

20061018 wsp src/algebra/Makefile change \$ to $ for awk scripts
  src/algebra/Makefile.pamphlet hunk 2 and 3

20060919 gxv src/doc/book line 15282, remove verbatim
  src/doc/book.pamphlet

20061017 gxv src/interp/bookvol5 clearCmdparts -> clearCmdParts
  src/interp/bookvol5.pamphlet

20060904 tpd src/interp/debugsys.lisp fix paren balance
  src/interp/debugsys.lisp.pamphlet

20060901 tpd src/interp/nlib.lisp (probe-file => (directory (truename
20060906 cxm src/interp/nlib.lisp (and (directory filearg...
  src/interp/nlib.lisp.pamphlet

20060902 tpd src/interp/nocompil.lisp fix trailing paren in enable-backtrace
  src/interp/nocompil.lisp.pamphlet

20060906 cxm src/interp/nlib.lisp (and (directory filearg...
  src/interp/nlib.lisp.pamphlet

20060901 tpd src/interp/patches.lisp use namestring
  src/interp/patches.lisp.pamphlet

20060914 tpd src/interp/setq.lisp add Jose Alfredo Portes
20060926 tpd src/interp/setq.lisp add Frithjof Schulze
20061006 tpd src/interp/setq.lisp add Waldek Hebisch
20061018 tpd src/interp/setq.lisp fix baldir -> balbir
20061026 tpd src/interp/setq.lisp add Christian Aistleitner
  src/interp/setq.lisp.pamphlet

20061026 tpd src/interp/sockio.lisp use double on sock_send_float
  src/interp/sockio.lisp.pamphlet

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] axiom-silverbranch for linux.
References: <87r6wty4qf.fsf@nerim.fr>
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Francois Maltey <fmaltey@nerim.fr> writes:

| Hi,
|=20
| I follow the commands of the
|=20
|   http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/AxiomSilverBranch
|=20
| in orderto compile a new axiom.
|=20
| So I do as root :
|=20
| cd /usr/loca/
| svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom/trunk axiom
| svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom/trunk axiom
| # I make it twice because my adsl link is too slow=20
| mkdir axiom-local
| cd axiom-local
| lndir ../axiom/silver
| ./configure
|=20
| export AXIOM=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux
| export PATH=3D$AXIOM/bin:$PATH
| make
|=20
| Then I get an error :
|=20
| The end of the make output is :
|=20
| 2 Environment SPAD=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux SYS=3Dlinux SPD=3D/=
usr/local/axiom-local LSP=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/lsp GCLDIR=3D/usr/local/=
axiom-local/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre2 SRC=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/src INT=3D/usr/l=
ocal/axiom-local/int OBJ=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/obj MNT=3D/usr/local/axio=
m-local/mnt ZIPS=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/zips TMP=3D/usr/local/axiom-local=
/obj/tmp SPADBIN=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin INC=3D/usr/local/ax=
iom-local/src/include CCLBASE=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/obj/linux/ccl/ccllis=
p PART=3Dcprogs SUBPART=3Deverything NOISE=3D-o /usr/local/axiom-local/obj/=
tmp/trace GCLVERSION=3Dgcl-2.6.8pre2 TANGLE=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/li=
nux/bin/lib/notangle VERSION=3DAxiom (September 2006) PATCH=3Dpatch DOCUMEN=
T=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/document WEAVE=3D/usr/local/axiom-=
local/mnt/linux/bin/lib/noweave
| make: /usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/document : commande introuvable
| make: *** [all] Erreur 127
|=20
| Can you imagine what is the problem ?

Salut Fran=E7ois,

  Maybe this is just a typo; the first command reads "cd /usr/loca/"
whereas the AXIOM variable seems to imply /usr/local.

Can you give me the output of=20

   ls -R /usr/loca/axiom-local/mnt

?

-- Gaby



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Hi Gabriel,

> | cd /usr/loca/
of corse, it's cd /usr/local=20

> | svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom/trunk axiom
> | svn co https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom/trunk axiom
> | # I make it twice because my adsl link is too slow=20
> | mkdir axiom-local
> | cd axiom-local
> | lndir ../axiom/silver
> | ./configure
> |=20
> | export AXIOM=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux
> | export PATH=3D$AXIOM/bin:$PATH
> | make
> |=20
> | Then I get an error :
> |=20
> | The end of the make output is :
> |=20
> | 2 Environment SPAD=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux SYS=3Dlinux SPD=
=3D/usr/local/axiom-local LSP=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/lsp GCLDIR=3D/usr/lo=
cal/axiom-local/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre2 SRC=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/src INT=3D/u=
sr/local/axiom-local/int OBJ=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/obj MNT=3D/usr/local/=
axiom-local/mnt ZIPS=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/zips TMP=3D/usr/local/axiom-l=
ocal/obj/tmp SPADBIN=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin INC=3D/usr/loca=
l/axiom-local/src/include CCLBASE=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/obj/linux/ccl/cc=
llisp PART=3Dcprogs SUBPART=3Deverything NOISE=3D-o /usr/local/axiom-local/=
obj/tmp/trace GCLVERSION=3Dgcl-2.6.8pre2 TANGLE=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/mn=
t/linux/bin/lib/notangle VERSION=3DAxiom (September 2006) PATCH=3Dpatch DOC=
UMENT=3D/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/document WEAVE=3D/usr/local/ax=
iom-local/mnt/linux/bin/lib/noweave
> | make: /usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/document : commande introuva=
ble
> | make: *** [all] Erreur 127
> |=20
> | Can you imagine what is the problem ?
>=20
>   Maybe this is just a typo; the first command reads "cd /usr/loca/"
> whereas the AXIOM variable seems to imply /usr/local.
>=20
> Can you give me the output of=20
>=20
>    ls -R /usr/loca/axiom-local/mnt

And files and directories are owned by=20
-rw-r--r-- 1 root staff .........
But I make axiom as root.
Thanks a lot !

Fran=C3=A7ois

/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt:
linux

/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux:
bin

/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin:
boxhead
boxtail
boxup
document
lib
Makefile.pamphlet
man
showdvi
tex

/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/lib:
btdefn
cpif
emptydefn
finduses
h2a
htmltoc
markup
mnt
nodefs
noidx
noindex
noroff
noroots
notangle
nountangle
noweave
noweb
nt
nuweb2noweb
nwmtime
pipedocs
tmac.w
toascii
tohtml
toroff
totex
unmarkup

/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/man:
man1
man7

/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/man/man1:
cpif.1
htmltoc.1
nodefs.1
noindex.1
noroff.1
noroots.1
notangle.1
nountangle.1
noweave.1
noweb.1
nuweb2noweb.1
sl2h.1

/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/man/man7:
nowebfilters.7
nowebstyle.7

/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/tex:
axiom.sty
noweb.sty
nwmac.tex



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are you using a bash shell?

t



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

> are you using a bash shell?

Yes I do. Is-it an error ?



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nope. i'm just trying to guess.
the path seems correct. so it must be one of:

the file is not executable
the file is being read by the wrong shell
the file contains junk
bad karma

so i'm trying to decide.
can you execute the document command by hand?

change to /usr/local/axiom-local/src/interp and type

/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/ocument setq.lisp.pamphlet

t



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> > I have fetsche /silver from SourceForge.  I do not understand why
> > you write about big differences. The biggest difference is that
> > /silver contains .arch-ids subdirectories. AFAICS essential differences
> > are tiny (869 lines).  /silver has tla-1.1.tar.gz (IIRC removed
> > from /trunk) and /trunk has PATCH49-50.  Also, /trunk has added ChangeLog
> > to some subdirectories. 
> 
> I believe the differences are between the old trunk and axiom--silver--1,
> not between sourceforge/silver and axiom--silver--1
> 

Yes, as I wrote I run diff between /trunk and /silver on SourceForge.
Since I do not have arch I can not see axiom--silver--1, but I belive
that /silver on SourceForge faithfully mirrors axiom--silver--1.


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Francois Maltey <fmaltey@nerim.fr> writes:

| root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
| 
| > are you using a bash shell?
| 
| Yes I do. Is-it an error ?

No.

The problem is not there.  I think I've seen the error you're urnning
into before.  It has to do with symbolic links working only portably
when given absolute path.  I'm in the process of updating and making
sure my "theory" is right.  But, basically, instead of doing

    lndir ../axiom/silver
    ./configure

you should be doing

    lndir /usr/local/axiom/silver .  
    ./configure

from axiom-local.

Please, restart asfresh (e.g. erase directory axiom-local and restart
from there, you don't need to touch the directory "axiom" where you
downloaded Axiom to).

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

> the path seems correct. so it must be one of:
> 
> the file is not executable
> the file is being read by the wrong shell
> the file contains junk
> bad karma
> 
> so i'm trying to decide.
> can you execute the document command by hand?
> 
> change to /usr/local/axiom-local/src/interp 

Yes I do. 
cd /usr/local/axiom-local/src/interp 

> and type
> 
> /usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/document setq.lisp.pamphlet

No file found, but there is a link :

ls -l /usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/document

lrwxrwxrwx 1 root staff 42 2006-10-27 20:43 
    /usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/document 
       -> ../../../axiom/silver/src/scripts/document

ls -l /usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/../../../../axiom/silver
                                                   /src/scripts/document
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root staff 877 2006-10-27 18:18 /usr/local/axiom-local/mnt
                /linux/bin/../../../../axiom/silver/src/scripts/document

If I want to find the ....axiom/silver/src/scripts/document I must use
four ../ and there is only three ../ in the link.

I dislike the root.staff owner. 

Is it a good idea to  make a chown -R root.root ?

Thanks for your help.

Francois



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> The problem is not there.  I think I've seen the error you're urnning
> into before.  It has to do with symbolic links working only portably
> when given absolute path.  I'm in the process of updating and making
> sure my "theory" is right.  But, basically, instead of doing
> 
>     lndir ../axiom/silver
>     ./configure
> 
> you should be doing
> 
>     lndir /usr/local/axiom/silver .  
>     ./configure
> 
> from axiom-local.

eh? i'm confused. i believe there are no symbolic links in axiom.

t




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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] sourceforge/silver
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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
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Tim,=20

On Friday, October 27, 2006 1:56 PM you wrote:
> Gaby wrote:=20
> > What you want is not to merge branch-improvements back to
> > trunk at this moment.  Rather, you want to minimize distance
> > as much as possible.  Concretely, that means backporting
> > some patches on silver to that branch -- not the other way
> > around.
>=20

Here is how I see the situation:

            |       |            |           |
            |       |        darcs and       |
            |    next big =3D  hg mirrors      |
            |    experiment      |           |
 gold       |   /                            |
 gold <---- |  /                             |
 (52)     silver  (SourceForge) <=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D> Google Code
            |                             mirror
            |\___merge___                    |
 gold <---- |            \        |          |
 (51)       |\__          |       |          |
           /    \   back  |   darcs and      |
 gold <---|-<----\ .....> / =3D hg mirrors     |
 (50)     /      /  port |        |          |
         |      |        |        |          |
Now:   silver trunk    build
         |      |   improvements
        tla     |    /
                |   /
                |  /
 gold <------ trunk
 (49)           |
               CVS


What Gaby is talking about is shown as ....> above.

Now is that really *so* complicated?? :-)

> merging build-improvements can happen "when it is ready"
> and i suspect it will take a fair amount of give-and-take
> about things like documentation and philosophy. but i'm
> not suggesting we start that now.
>=20
> other than the autotools items, it is in our best interest
> to make axiom--silver--1 and build-improvements identical.=20
>

For me personally, autoconf support is more important than
almost everything else, the reason being that I would really
like to see more Axiom developers. The more standard our build
environment is, the easier that will be. Seconly increasing
the number of type of supported platforms is very important
for increasing the number of Axiom users.

So I am especially interested in what I labelled Gold (52)
above, but I can live with the experimental branch until
then.

> so the point of the discussion was that when we make changes
> they ought to go into the silver branch (which is the next
> world release) if they can. and the agreed-upon mechanism is
> to post diff patches against Gold to the mailing list. i don't
> see this happening and it concerns me.
>=20

Diffing patches against Gold seems problematic to me. I
would prefer for patches to be against Silver if possible.
But this is mostly "cherry picking" anyway, so at least
with most SCM tools (maybe darcs is an exception) it is
necessary to use a fair amount of manual manipulation of
patches anyway. So I don't think exactly what we base a
patch on is that important.

>=20
> it raises the question of how patches should be done.=20
>=20
> i believe the point of the SVN repository was that multiple
> people can create multiple branches to work on different
> things. these different things would eventually be reviewed
> and, if accepted, merged into silver and then gold.
>

No. SVN /trunk was created to be Silver from which the
experimental branchs would be branched.
=20
> axiom--silver--1 was created to be a pre-gold version of
> the system with "early release" of changes so they can be
> tested.

No. axiom--silver--1 was created to be a mirror of SVN /trunk
(now called SVN /silver) so that you would not have to deal
with the problems of using SVN.

>=20
> axiom--main--1 is the "official system"
>

Right. Gold.
=20
> so it seems to me that SVN branches should collect up
> changesets, post these as diffs to the mailing list have
> these applied to silver review, tested, and finally released
> as gold.
>=20

I don't think there are very many of these and I believe that
all of them have already been posted to the mailing list.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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To: Francois Maltey <fmaltey@nerim.fr>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] axiom-silverbranch for linux.
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Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

| Francois Maltey <fmaltey@nerim.fr> writes:
|=20
| | root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
| |=20
| | > are you using a bash shell?
| |=20
| | Yes I do. Is-it an error ?
|=20
| No.
|=20
| The problem is not there.  I think I've seen the error you're urnning
| into before.  It has to do with symbolic links working only portably
| when given absolute path.  I'm in the process of updating and making
| sure my "theory" is right.

Fran=E7ois --

   Yes, the "theory" was right.  I was able to reproduce the problem
you reported with relative path to lndir.  However, everything works
with absolute path.  Please proceed, as I said:

|  But, basically, instead of doing
|=20
|     lndir ../axiom/silver
|     ./configure
|=20
| you should be doing
|=20
|     lndir /usr/local/axiom/silver .=20=20
|     ./configure
|=20
| from axiom-local.
|=20
| Please, restart asfresh (e.g. erase directory axiom-local and restart
| from there, you don't need to touch the directory "axiom" where you
| downloaded Axiom to).

And report back -- once you see lines begining with "gcc .." floating
around.=20

-- Gaby



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To: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] axiom-silverbranch for linux.
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Hi Gabriel,

It seems it's right.

> The problem is not there.  I think I've seen the error you're urnning
> into before.  It has to do with symbolic links working only portably
> when given absolute path.  I'm in the process of updating and making
> sure my "theory" is right.  But, basically, instead of doing
> 
>     lndir ../axiom/silver
>     ./configure
> 
> you should be doing
> 
>     lndir /usr/local/axiom/silver .  
>     ./configure
> 
> from axiom-local.
> 
> Please, restart asfresh (e.g. erase directory axiom-local and restart
> from there, you don't need to touch the directory "axiom" where you
> downloaded Axiom to).

The previous step is right.

Now make complains there is no X11/Xlib.h file.

I'll update my debian distribution with some apt-get, 
but tomorrow, it's late.

Thanks a lot.

Francois



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > The problem is not there.  I think I've seen the error you're urnning
| > into before.  It has to do with symbolic links working only portably
| > when given absolute path.  I'm in the process of updating and making
| > sure my "theory" is right.  But, basically, instead of doing
| > 
| >     lndir ../axiom/silver
| >     ./configure
| > 
| > you should be doing
| > 
| >     lndir /usr/local/axiom/silver .  
| >     ./configure
| > 
| > from axiom-local.
| 
| eh? i'm confused. i believe there are no symbolic links in axiom.

You're right that there is no symlink in Axiom.  But lndir creates one --
the manipulation above makes it possible to fake an out-of-source
build, so that people don't have to blow away their checked-out tree
after the build.  They can build separately, and update separately.  The
only time there is an interference is when toplevel Makefile is
regenerated during the build (culprit: the special rule to overwrite
the toplevel Makefile). 

None of those issues are present with axiom.build-improvements.

-- Gaby



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Francois Maltey <fmaltey@nerim.fr> writes:

| No file found, but there is a link :
| 
| ls -l /usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/document
| 
| lrwxrwxrwx 1 root staff 42 2006-10-27 20:43 
|     /usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/bin/document 
|        -> ../../../axiom/silver/src/scripts/document

yes, the link is slightly wrong because of the way "ln -s" operates.
But, it becomes right if you give absolute path
(/usr/local/axiom/silver) instead of relative path (../axiom/silver)
to lndir.

[...]

| Is it a good idea to  make a chown -R root.root ?

It is not an ownership problem.

-- Gaby



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Francois Maltey <fmaltey@nerim.fr> writes:

| I dislike the root.staff owner. 

Personnaly, I do not recommend building Axiom as superuser.  There are
questionable commands in the build process that usually get rejected when
you're not root.  And that is OK.  If you're building as root, they
could skew your system without you noticing.

-- Gaby



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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

| Tim, 
| 
| On Friday, October 27, 2006 1:56 PM you wrote:
| > Gaby wrote: 
| > > What you want is not to merge branch-improvements back to
| > > trunk at this moment.  Rather, you want to minimize distance
| > > as much as possible.  Concretely, that means backporting
| > > some patches on silver to that branch -- not the other way
| > > around.
| > 
| 
| Here is how I see the situation:
| 
|             |       |            |           |
|             |       |        darcs and       |
|             |    next big =  hg mirrors      |
|             |    experiment      |           |
|  gold       |   /                            |
|  gold <---- |  /                             |
|  (52)     silver  (SourceForge) <=====> Google Code
|             |                             mirror
|             |\___merge___                    |
|  gold <---- |            \        |          |
|  (51)       |\__          |       |          |
|            /    \   back  |   darcs and      |
|  gold <---|-<----\ .....> / = hg mirrors     |
|  (50)     /      /  port |        |          |
|          |      |        |        |          |
| Now:   silver trunk    build
|          |      |   improvements
|         tla     |    /
|                 |   /
|                 |  /
|  gold <------ trunk
|  (49)           |
|                CVS
| 
| 
| What Gaby is talking about is shown as ....> above.
| 
| Now is that really *so* complicated?? :-)

Hey, you should make that a PDF file and link it to the Wiki page.  It
is so useful.  I'm pretty sure Ralf would like it :-)

[...]

| > so the point of the discussion was that when we make changes
| > they ought to go into the silver branch (which is the next
| > world release) if they can. and the agreed-upon mechanism is
| > to post diff patches against Gold to the mailing list. i don't
| > see this happening and it concerns me.
| > 
| 
| Diffing patches against Gold seems problematic to me. I
| would prefer for patches to be against Silver if possible.

yes, you're right.  If we consider Gold as release branch, most
patches would be made against silver (which, in my mental model, is
the development branch).


-- Gaby



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Francois Maltey <fmaltey@nerim.fr> writes:

[...]

| > Please, restart asfresh (e.g. erase directory axiom-local and restart
| > from there, you don't need to touch the directory "axiom" where you
| > downloaded Axiom to).
| 
| The previous step is right.

OK, great.

| Now make complains there is no X11/Xlib.h file.

Ah.  Now, we need to know more about your system. :-(

Could you check whether X11/Xlib.h is there (say /usr/X11/include)?  I
would be surprised if your system is setup with X11.

-- Gaby



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Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

> "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

> | Here is how I see the situation:
> | 
> |             |       |            |           |
> |             |       |        darcs and       |
> |             |    next big =  hg mirrors      |
> |             |    experiment      |           |
> |  gold       |   /                            |
> |  gold <---- |  /                             |
> |  (52)     silver  (SourceForge) <=====> Google Code
> |             |                             mirror
> |             |\___merge___                    |
> |  gold <---- |            \        |          |
> |  (51)       |\__          |       |          |
> |            /    \   back  |   darcs and      |
> |  gold <---|-<----\ .....> / = hg mirrors     |
> |  (50)     /      /  port |        |          |
> |          |      |        |        |          |
> | Now:   silver trunk    build
> |          |      |   improvements
> |         tla     |    /
> |                 |   /
> |                 |  /
> |  gold <------ trunk
> |  (49)           |
> |                CVS
> | 
> | 
> | What Gaby is talking about is shown as ....> above.
> | 
> | Now is that really *so* complicated?? :-)
> 
> Hey, you should make that a PDF file and link it to the Wiki page.  It
                              
link it to the wiki yes, change it to pdf no. The ascii art is just way too
beautiful. And pdf uses probably 5000 times more space, I'd guess ;-)


Martin




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--=-=-=

Hi Tim,

as I anounced some time ago, there is a small bug in guessExpRat of my guessing
package. The attached version of mantepse.spad.pamphlet fixes this bug. 

Did you make any progress on having it built automatically?


--=-=-=
Content-Type: application/octet-stream
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename=mantepse.spad.pamphlet
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64

[encoded data, 106645 characters]
U1AgR3Vlc3NQb2x5bm9taWFsPj4KQApcZW5ke2RvY3VtZW50fQo=
--=-=-=


And, btw, why did you change util.ht in patch 50 ? For HyperDoc to work with my
package, you will have to revert them...

Martin

--=-=-=--




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> Here is how I see the situation:
> 
>             |       |            |           |
>             |       |        darcs and       |
>             |    next big =  hg mirrors      |
>             |    experiment      |           |
>  gold       |   /                            |
>  gold <---- |  /                             |
>  (52)     silver  (SourceForge) <=====> Google Code
>             |                             mirror
>             |\___merge___                    |
>  gold <---- |            \        |          |
>  (51)       |\__          |       |          |
>            /    \   back  |   darcs and      |
>  gold <---|-<----\ .....> / = hg mirrors     |
>  (50)     /      /  port |        |          |
>          |      |        |        |          |
> Now:   silver trunk    build
>          |      |   improvements
>         tla     |    /
>                 |   /
>                 |  /
>  gold <------ trunk
>  (49)           |
>                CVS
> 
> 
> What Gaby is talking about is shown as ....> above.


Well, Bill, I nominate you for ascii artist of the year!
unfortunately i'm too left-brained to figure out what you mean.

are you trying to say that silver patches get backported into branches?

that's fine. i'm just concerned that at some point Gaby asserts that
"it's done" and i have a HUGE pile of completely unrelated changes
dropped on my desk. each change is going to be debated (count on it,
given this crowd :-) ), its going to take forever (translation: more
than a week :-) ), and the claims will be "well, it works so what's
the problem" over every objection. the fact that it works is a
necessary but not sufficient condition. 

i'm trying to minimize the pain by asserting that this particular
branch has a stated goal, that of making axiom use autotools.
anything that depends on that should be done in that branch.
changes which do NOT depend on that should be done against silver
or gold and Gaby can pick them up at will.

t





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> For me personally, autoconf support is more important than
> almost everything else, the reason being that I would really
> like to see more Axiom developers. The more standard our build
> environment is, the easier that will be. Seconly increasing
> the number of type of supported platforms is very important
> for increasing the number of Axiom users.
> 
> So I am especially interested in what I labelled Gold (52)
> above, but I can live with the experimental branch until
> then.

I realize that autoconf is your golden standard and you know I believe
that it won't have a measureable effect on the number of developers.

I do think the build-improvements branch has a positive effect by
making people believe they can change the system. Unfortunately
changing Axiom is easy but showing that you didn't break anything is
hard.  A lot of my changes are not posted because there are many
things to check.  Though I have a lot of experience with Axiom I
cannot answer Gaby's questions without study and experiment. I don't
think autoconf is going to change that.

t



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On 10/27/2006 10:10 PM, Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:
> 
> | Tim, 
> | 
> | On Friday, October 27, 2006 1:56 PM you wrote:
> | > Gaby wrote: 
> | > > What you want is not to merge branch-improvements back to
> | > > trunk at this moment.  Rather, you want to minimize distance
> | > > as much as possible.  Concretely, that means backporting
> | > > some patches on silver to that branch -- not the other way
> | > > around.
> | > 
> | 
> | Here is how I see the situation:
> | 
> |             |       |            |           |
> |             |       |        darcs and       |
> |             |    next big =  hg mirrors      |
> |             |    experiment      |           |
> |  gold       |   /                            |
> |  gold <---- |  /                             |
> |  (52)     silver  (SourceForge) <=====> Google Code
> |             |                             mirror
> |             |\___merge___                    |
> |  gold <---- |            \        |          |
> |  (51)       |\__          |       |          |
> |            /    \   back  |   darcs and      |
> |  gold <---|-<----\ .....> / = hg mirrors     |
> |  (50)     /      /  port |        |          |
> |          |      |        |        |          |
> | Now:   silver trunk    build
> |          |      |   improvements
> |         tla     |    /
> |                 |   /
> |                 |  /
> |  gold <------ trunk
> |  (49)           |
> |                CVS
> | 
> | 
> | What Gaby is talking about is shown as ....> above.
> | 
> | Now is that really *so* complicated?? :-)
> 
> Hey, you should make that a PDF file and link it to the Wiki page.  It
> is so useful.  I'm pretty sure Ralf would like it :-)

You are so right, Gaby. ;-)

A .fig file is probably better since that can be converted to many 
formats. And xfig is quite a nice tool for such graphics anyway.

Thank you, Bill. You are a master of such ASCII-Graphics (and not only 
that).

Ralf



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> Diffing patches against Gold seems problematic to me. I
> would prefer for patches to be against Silver if possible.
> But this is mostly "cherry picking" anyway, so at least
> with most SCM tools (maybe darcs is an exception) it is
> necessary to use a fair amount of manual manipulation of
> patches anyway. So I don't think exactly what we base a
> patch on is that important.

Gold and Silver will only differ by at most 2 months of changes so
it's not really a big issue. Up until this time all changes had to be
a diff against Gold because Silver was kept locally on my machine. The
fact that it is now kept publically should not change the procedure. 
However, I'm flexible and can handle the diff from either system 
since I'm going to hand-apply it anyway.

t



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> I don't think there are very many of these and I believe that
> all of them have already been posted to the mailing list.

I awoke this morning to a whole series of bug status reports
changed to closed. Perhaps this is correct but I didn't see
changes to the source code patched and tested. I'm going to
review these changes this weekend if I can.

t



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

> > I don't think there are very many of these and I believe that
> > all of them have already been posted to the mailing list.
> 
> I awoke this morning to a whole series of bug status reports
> changed to closed. Perhaps this is correct but I didn't see
> changes to the source code patched and tested. I'm going to
> review these changes this weekend if I can.

That was me. These bugs were fixed in patch 46, so should be closed by now :-)

BTW, I think that issuetracker really needs one improvement: we need to be able
to run old versions of axiom there. Many many of the bug reports are strange to
read, because the examples provided don't fail anymore.

Furthermore, it's high time to have something like Christian Aistleitners
aldorunit package for axiom.

And of course, it's high time for a free aldor compiler, and for dependent
types in axiom. But I guess, all that won't happen in the near future.

I'm quite depressed, I must confess.

Martin




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> | Now make complains there is no X11/Xlib.h file.
>
> Ah.  Now, we need to know more about your system. :-(
>
> Could you check whether X11/Xlib.h is there (say /usr/X11/include)?  I
> would be surprised if your system is setup with X11.

I think in Debian this is in the package: libx11-dev



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > For me personally, autoconf support is more important than
| > almost everything else, the reason being that I would really
| > like to see more Axiom developers. The more standard our build
| > environment is, the easier that will be. Seconly increasing
| > the number of type of supported platforms is very important
| > for increasing the number of Axiom users.
| > 
| > So I am especially interested in what I labelled Gold (52)
| > above, but I can live with the experimental branch until
| > then.
| 
| I realize that autoconf is your golden standard and you know I believe
| that it won't have a measureable effect on the number of developers.

I don't know.  

What I know for sure is that I have five students who all have hard
time with Axiom silver and I had to give them
axiom.build-improvements.  One group is working on formal power series,
and the other is working on algorithmic differentiation.

| I do think the build-improvements branch has a positive effect by
| making people believe they can change the system. Unfortunately
| changing Axiom is easy but showing that you didn't break anything is
| hard.  A lot of my changes are not posted because there are many
| things to check.  Though I have a lot of experience with Axiom I
| cannot answer Gaby's questions without study and experiment. I don't
| think autoconf is going to change that.

It most certainly is not going to answer those questions, but I believe it
would lower the entry barrier to building Axiom (and possibly
modifying it).  And that is a Good Thing. 

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > Diffing patches against Gold seems problematic to me. I
| > would prefer for patches to be against Silver if possible.
| > But this is mostly "cherry picking" anyway, so at least
| > with most SCM tools (maybe darcs is an exception) it is
| > necessary to use a fair amount of manual manipulation of
| > patches anyway. So I don't think exactly what we base a
| > patch on is that important.
| 
| Gold and Silver will only differ by at most 2 months of changes so
| it's not really a big issue. Up until this time all changes had to be
| a diff against Gold because Silver was kept locally on my machine. The
| fact that it is now kept publically should not change the procedure. 
| However, I'm flexible and can handle the diff from either system 
| since I'm going to hand-apply it anyway.

Because branches are goind to be made from silver, I believe most
patches would be made against silver.  

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| are you trying to say that silver patches get backported into branches?

I'm suggesting that every patch against silver be made as dealing
conceptually with one thing, so that branch maintainers can decide
whether they want to have them for the purpose of minimizing distance
between a specific branch and silver.

In the case of axiom.build-improvements, I'm essentially saying that
those pacthes that are not disruptive to the build machinery should be
backported to build-improvements.  Of course, since I'm responsible
for that branch, it is my job.  However, that job would be much easier
for me if the patches to silver were not one-time huge stuff.

| that's fine. i'm just concerned that at some point Gaby asserts that
| "it's done" and i have a HUGE pile of completely unrelated changes
| dropped on my desk. each change is going to be debated (count on it,
| given this crowd :-) ), 

yeah, I know; that is why I plotting to drop it during summer
vacations ;-) 

-- Gaby



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Dear Gaby,

Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

> One group is working on formal power series,

this group should definitively get into touch with Ralf, Antoine and me.

Ralf and myself have (toghether with extreme support from Christian and
Nicolas) an implementation of Combinatorial Species. This is a combinatorial
model for Formal Power Series.

Antoine has started to implement GFUN and MGFUN in Axiom. THis is for dealing
with dfinite (also known as holonomic) formal power series. These satisfy
wonderful closure properties and allow testing for zero, i.e., are
computable. I have somee ideas to generalize to formal power series that
satisfy an ADE. Although you cannot test for zero in general, they satisfy very
very nice closure properties. 

Many many functions that occur naturally satisfy an ADE when regarded as a
formal power series.


Finally, there is my guessing package, which implements many features needed by
gfun and mgfun.


It would be great to put together these pieces to get something bigger.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Don't you have a spare student who would be willing to make Axiom understand
dependent types? You noticed the price I set?

Thanks,

Martin




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Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at> writes:

[...]

| And of course, it's high time for a free aldor compiler, and for dependent
| types in axiom. But I guess, all that won't happen in the near future.

free Aldor source may not happen very soon, but we may have better
support for dependent types in Axiom in the near future.

| I'm quite depressed, I must confess.

cheer up, camarad.

-- Gaby



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"Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com> writes:

| > | Now make complains there is no X11/Xlib.h file.
| >
| > Ah.  Now, we need to know more about your system. :-(
| >
| > Could you check whether X11/Xlib.h is there (say /usr/X11/include)?  I
| > would be surprised if your system is setup with X11.
| 
| I think in Debian this is in the package: libx11-dev

Aha, so you could have X11 stuff running but you need to install
libx11-dev.  Is that correct?

-- Gaby



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On 27 Oct 2006 23:03:47 +0200, Gabriel Dos Reis
<gdr@integrable-solutions.net> wrote:
> "Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com> writes:
>
> | > | Now make complains there is no X11/Xlib.h file.
> | >
> | > Ah.  Now, we need to know more about your system. :-(
> | >
> | > Could you check whether X11/Xlib.h is there (say /usr/X11/include)?  I
> | > would be surprised if your system is setup with X11.
> |
> | I think in Debian this is in the package: libx11-dev
>
> Aha, so you could have X11 stuff running but you need to install
> libx11-dev.  Is that correct?

Exactly. :-). Happens to me on Ubuntu too.



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> > For me personally, autoconf support is more important than
> > almost everything else, the reason being that I would really
> > like to see more Axiom developers. The more standard our build
> > environment is, the easier that will be. Seconly increasing
> > the number of type of supported platforms is very important
> > for increasing the number of Axiom users.
> > 
> > So I am especially interested in what I labelled Gold (52)
> > above, but I can live with the experimental branch until
> > then.
> 
> I realize that autoconf is your golden standard and you know I believe
> that it won't have a measureable effect on the number of developers.
>

Tim, ATM you can count 1 (that is me) -- compared to 8 it looks
measurable.  Before Gaby effort I was consider doing my own fork
or forgeting about Axiom at all.   
 
> I do think the build-improvements branch has a positive effect by
> making people believe they can change the system. Unfortunately
> changing Axiom is easy but showing that you didn't break anything is
> hard.  A lot of my changes are not posted because there are many
> things to check.  Though I have a lot of experience with Axiom I
> cannot answer Gaby's questions without study and experiment. I don't
> think autoconf is going to change that.
> 

I think Tim you do not understand one issue: human labour is
expensive and unreliable -- computers are cheap and can do
repetitve work with high reliablity. Autoconf is just a tool,
big thing is having autmated build and testing process.

ATM Axiom is _extremally_ buggy, requireing a lot of hand work
to build and test.  Also, Axiom contains a lot of junk which
at best takes extra storage and frequently causes confusion.
Your policy of slow changes means that bugs are not fixed, but
still does not prevent breakage (at least one change from 2003
breaks automatic generation of .pht files, and changes to 
Axiom book probably interfere with automatic generation of .ht
files).

On more practical ground: I have access to 70 machines on
which I could test Axiom, but using more machines for 
silver/gold is useless since building "out of the box" fails
on most of them (I sent a report recently, so you can see
the problem).  Using build-improvements I have problem only
on one machine -- see part about 'msgfmt' in
http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/axiom-developer/2006-09/msg00750.html

On other machine build-improvements builds without problems,
and with very little manual effort. Gold/silver in rare cases
when they "just work" still require much more typing. And
when something gets broken it is easier to apply quick fix
to build-improvements then to gold/silver.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Martin,=20

On Friday, October 27, 2006 4:42 PM you wrote:
> ...=20
> BTW, I think that issuetracker really needs one improvement:=20
> we need to be able to run old versions of axiom there. Many
> many of the bug reports are strange to read, because the
> examples provided don't fail anymore.
>

Agreed. I have not found any easy way to do this nor enough
time to do the necessary programming.
=20
> Furthermore, it's high time to have something like Christian=20
> Aistleitners aldorunit package for axiom.
>

Any kind of unit testing for Axiom would be a big improvement.
Save for example, makes extensive use of DocTest:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctest
http://docs.python.org/lib/module-doctest.html

Both Aldor and SPAD have the equivalent of "docstrings" so
this idea could be easily ported. (Perhaps doctest is similar
to what aldorunit does?

> And of course, it's high time for a free aldor compiler, and=20
> for dependent types in axiom. But I guess, all that won't
> happen in the near future.
>=20
> I'm quite depressed, I must confess.
>

Yes, me too. But sometimes it is possible to use such feelings
as a source of motivation...

Recently I stumbled across the Aldor credits web page again
where I re-read:

http://www.aldor.org/credits.html

"Aldor.org was formed as an organization involving NAG and the
principal supporters of Aldor to distribute it freely."

One thing that I think most of us can agree on is that so far
Aldor.org has not really lived up to stated purpose. :-(

Another thing I noticed was the rather impressive list of names
associated with Aldor. Some of these people we know very well
and some of them have actually added there names to the

http://wiki.axiom-developer.org/FreeAldor#bottom

petition (which now has nearly 50 names!).

Except for those people whom we can no longer possibly contact
because they are no with us, I was thinking in terms of making
a serious effort to contact as many of these people as possible
and ask them to lend their support to making Aldor open source.
If we can we can get the support of even a few of these people,
I think it would necessarily carry some weight with Aldor.org.

Names from the Aldor credits page:

Richard D. Jenks
Robert S. Sutor
Barry M. Trager
Stephen Watt (IBM, INRIA, and U Western Ontario)
Florian Bundshuh
William Burge
James Davenport
Marc Ga=EBtano
Michael Monagan
Scott Morrison
Simon Robinson
Gerald Baumgartner
Peter Broadbery
Samuel Dooley
Teresa Gomez Diaz
Stephen Gortler
Pietro Iglio
Jonathan Steinbach
Knut Wolf
Dave Bayer (Columbia U)
Manuel Bronstein (ETH Zurich)
Ronnie Brown (University of Wales, Bangor)
Robert Corless (U Western Ontario and IBM)
Tim Daly (IBM)
Mike Dewar (NAG)
Patrizia Gianni (U Pisa and IBM)
Johannes Grabmeier (IBM)
Hans-Gert Gr=E4be (University of Leipzig)
Tony Kennedy (Supercomputer Computations Research Institute, Florida =
State U)
Larry Lambe (IBM)
Mike Richardson (NAG)
Philip Santas (ETH Zurich)
Barry Trager (IBM)
Themos Tsikas (NAG)
Brian Ford (NAG)
Steve Hague (NAG)
Bill Pulleyblank (IBM)
Marshall Schor (IBM)
Shmuel Winograd (IBM)
Yannis Chicha (U Western Ontario)
Florence Defaix (U Western Ontario)
Sam Dooley (IBM)
Martin Dunstan (NAG)
Marc Ga=EBtano (INRIA)
Teresa Gomez-Diaz (NAG)
Vilya Harvey (NAG)
Peter Huerter (U Western Ontario)
Marc Moreno Maza (NAG and U Lille I)
Manuel Bronstein  (ETH Zurich and INRIA)
James Davenport (U Bath)
Martin Dunstan (University of St Andrews)
Robert Edwards (SCRI Florida State U)
Tom Kelsey (University of St Andrews)
Tony Kennedy (SCRI Florida State U)
Ralf Hemmecke (U Linz)
Niklaus Mannhart (ETH Zurich)
Simon Thompson (U Kent)
and Saul Youssef (SCRI Florida State U)
Tom Ashby
Greg Collins
Laurentiu Dragan
B=E1lint Jo=F3
Bill Naylor
Cosmin Oancea

--------

No doubt many of the organizations affliated to these names
will be far out of date. But in some cases current Axiom users
and developers may still be on personal contact with their
former colleagues. In other cases it may be able to find a
more up to date affiliated via the web.

Anyway, if someone would like to volunteer to lead an effort to
contact these people formerly (and some currently) associated
with Aldor, I think that would be much better than just remaining
depressed. :-)

Cheers,
Bill Page.



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Martin Rubey <martin.rubey@univie.ac.at> writes:

| Dear Gaby,
| 
| Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:
| 
| > One group is working on formal power series,
| 
| this group should definitively get into touch with Ralf, Antoine and me.

I'm CC:ing them.  

Please, be "gentle" with them, they are CS grad students, not math
grad students and they are new to Axiom. (I'm not sure they are
very familiar with Aldor).  They have been reading (if my recollection
is right) on the holonomic series and the work done in Maple and
Mathematica.  They are working with SPAD  -- I have no plan to
have them work in Aldor at this time; and they have about a month to
complete their work.  

| Ralf and myself have (toghether with extreme support from Christian and
| Nicolas) an implementation of Combinatorial Species. This is a combinatorial
| model for Formal Power Series.
| 
| Antoine has started to implement GFUN and MGFUN in Axiom. THis is for dealing
| with dfinite (also known as holonomic) formal power series. These satisfy
| wonderful closure properties and allow testing for zero, i.e., are
| computable. I have somee ideas to generalize to formal power series that
| satisfy an ADE. Although you cannot test for zero in general, they satisfy very
| very nice closure properties. 

I, myself, have a particular interest in power series and ADE as this
came out of my work on constant mean curvature surfaces.

[...]

| Don't you have a spare student who would be willing to make Axiom understand
| dependent types? 

Not yet, but I have a colleague who is just as interested as I'm -- I
suspect I already mentioned him in the past.

| You noticed the price I set?

Yes.  I cannot take it personnaly, but once I have a student for that
topic, I'll contact you.  Next spring, I'm giving a class on
runtime systems, so I don't know yet.

-- Gaby



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"Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com> writes:

| On 27 Oct 2006 23:03:47 +0200, Gabriel Dos Reis
| <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> wrote:
| > "Alfredo Portes" <doyenatccny@gmail.com> writes:
| >
| > | > | Now make complains there is no X11/Xlib.h file.
| > | >
| > | > Ah.  Now, we need to know more about your system. :-(
| > | >
| > | > Could you check whether X11/Xlib.h is there (say /usr/X11/include)?  I
| > | > would be surprised if your system is setup with X11.
| > |
| > | I think in Debian this is in the package: libx11-dev
| >
| > Aha, so you could have X11 stuff running but you need to install
| > libx11-dev.  Is that correct?
| 
| Exactly. :-). Happens to me on Ubuntu too.

Okaaay.  Did I say Linux distros are crazy? :-)

-- Gaby



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I have noticed that most viewports in build-imporvements is
corrupted.  Namely, viewports directories contain compressed
bitmaps.  Trying to decompress them produces messuge like:

zcat: build-improvements/src/hyper/viewports/AssortedGraphicsExamplePage1.VIEW/image.bm.Z: corrupt input.

Corresponding files in silver decompress OK. AFAICS this is due
to text convertion (most differences is that files in build-improvements
have '\r' while files in silver have '\n' in corresponding place).

ATM this has no visible effect, since hypertex pages refering to
viewports have wrong paths, but at some moment should be fixed.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] GIT
Date: Fri, 27 Oct 2006 18:06:17 -0400
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From: "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca>
To: "Waldek Hebisch" <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
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On Friday, October 27, 2006 3:06 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> ...
> Bill Page wrote:=20
> > If you are able to identify and annonate the chunks of this
> > changeset that represent deletions, additions and those that
> > need further discussion, I think that would be great. Except
> > for the issue of the annoying '.arch-ids' files, I still think
> > the best approach to synchronize /silver and /trunk would be
> > for Tim to apply the necessary patchs to his tla archive
> > 'axiom--silver--1'. I think we need to get the workflow running
> > properly and automatically from axiom--silver--1 into /silver
> > and manually from /silver back to Tim as I suggested in a
> > previous email.
> >
>
> I think that as a one-time syncing operation we should apply
> Tim's changes to /trunk (and Tim should look at the (very small)=20
> difference). Once Tim's changes are in /trunk your robot can
> automatically update /trunk.
>

I have one technical reason for preferring to do the merge
the other way, from /trunk into /silver. That is because we
currently have axiom--silver--1 in sync with /silver and a
robot in place (using Tailor) so that any changes made to
axiom--silver--1 will be automatically reflected in /silver
and the two will remain in sync.

If we apply changes to /trunk that effectively leaves Tim out
of the loop, plus it means that we lose syncronization with
axiom--silver--1 which is to be Tim's primary source repository
for Silver. Switching the Robot over to update /trunk might be
a bit tricky because it is necessary to ensure that the robot
has accurate knowledge of the state of each repository.

There is however one drawback of what I propose. Apparently
when Tim created axiom--silver--1 he did not retain any of
the prior history of the axiom--main--1 branch. SVN /silver
shares the lack of memory, while /trunk which was derived
from the original CVS at SourceForge, has a much longer trail
of changes. Updating /silver via axiom--silver--1 with patches
from /trunk will not recreate very much of the history. But
maybe this sort of revision history is not so important for
the Axiom project?
=20
> Summary of the diff: there are 23 changed files.
> ...

[details omitted]

Thank you very much for your work on this! :-)

For now, I propose that we wait and see what Tim manages to
do do with his attempt to perform the merge into axiom--silver-1.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] GIT
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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

| On Friday, October 27, 2006 3:06 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
| > ...
| > Bill Page wrote: 
| > > If you are able to identify and annonate the chunks of this
| > > changeset that represent deletions, additions and those that
| > > need further discussion, I think that would be great. Except
| > > for the issue of the annoying '.arch-ids' files, I still think
| > > the best approach to synchronize /silver and /trunk would be
| > > for Tim to apply the necessary patchs to his tla archive
| > > 'axiom--silver--1'. I think we need to get the workflow running
| > > properly and automatically from axiom--silver--1 into /silver
| > > and manually from /silver back to Tim as I suggested in a
| > > previous email.
| > >
| >
| > I think that as a one-time syncing operation we should apply
| > Tim's changes to /trunk (and Tim should look at the (very small) 
| > difference). Once Tim's changes are in /trunk your robot can
| > automatically update /trunk.
| >
| 
| I have one technical reason for preferring to do the merge
| the other way, from /trunk into /silver. That is because we
| currently have axiom--silver--1 in sync with /silver and a
| robot in place (using Tailor) so that any changes made to
| axiom--silver--1 will be automatically reflected in /silver
| and the two will remain in sync.

I would like to see changes Tim makes to axiom--silver--1 sent to this
list or to the axiom-commits list.  That helps keeping track of the
changes. 

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] viewport in build-improvements
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| I have noticed that most viewports in build-imporvements is
| corrupted.  Namely, viewports directories contain compressed
| bitmaps.  Trying to decompress them produces messuge like:
| 
| zcat: build-improvements/src/hyper/viewports/AssortedGraphicsExamplePage1.VIEW/image.bm.Z: corrupt input.
| 
| Corresponding files in silver decompress OK. AFAICS this is due
| to text convertion (most differences is that files in build-improvements
| have '\r' while files in silver have '\n' in corresponding place).

This must come from the fact that when Axiom CVS was converted to
Axiom SVN, some "binary" files were corrupted.  Ralf made a
correction.  I never get around to back port those patches to
build-improvements (which was created before the problem got widely
noticed). 

Do you think you have a spare cycle to backport Ralf's fixes to
build-improvements? 

-- Gaby



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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] viewport in build-improvements
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On Friday, October 27, 2006 6:05 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
>=20
> I have noticed that most viewports in build-imporvements is
> corrupted.  Namely, viewports directories contain compressed
> bitmaps.  Trying to decompress them produces messuge like:
>=20
> zcat:=20
> build-improvements/src/hyper/viewports/AssortedGraphicsExample
>  Page1.VIEW/image.bm.Z: corrupt input.
>=20
> Corresponding files in silver decompress OK.

Have you compared these files in SVN /trunk and the new /silver?
/trunk was originally created by a flawed procedure at
SourceForge which accepted the incorrect metadata from CVS
without question and was subsequently corrected, while /silver
was create by a complete different route. I am hoping that
the problem did not re-occur in /silver.

> AFAICS this is due to text convertion (most differences is that
> files in build-improvements have '\r' while files in silver have
> '\n' in corresponding place).

Yes, this is a known problem. Ralf Hemmecke posted the changes to
/trunk to correct this problem. It is necessary to correctly set
the properties in svn so that the files are not mangled.

>=20
> ATM this has no visible effect, since hypertex pages refering
> to viewports have wrong paths, but at some moment should be
> fixed.
>=20

I think it is a good example of the kind of patch that should be
"backported" into build-improvements as Gaby suggested in a previous
email. If we could do that it would possibly benefit users of the
Axiom4Sage package that I just created for Sage users. But this is
not critical since hyperdoc is not normally used through the Sage
interface.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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On Friday, October 27, 2006 6:11 PM Gaby wrote:
> ...=20
> I would like to see changes Tim makes to axiom--silver--1 sent to
> this list or to the axiom-commits list.  That helps keeping track
> of the changes.=20
>=20

With the Tailor in place, I think this will automatically happen.
Tailor creates the necessary commits and applies them to /silver.
If you are subscribed to the axiom-commits email list, then you
should receive the usual notices. Did you receive the chain of about
8 commit notices that were a result of my fumbling around with svn
commands and setting up the robot script last night?

Or did you have something else in mind?

Regards,
Bill Page.



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"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

| On Friday, October 27, 2006 6:11 PM Gaby wrote:
| > ... 
| > I would like to see changes Tim makes to axiom--silver--1 sent to
| > this list or to the axiom-commits list.  That helps keeping track
| > of the changes. 
| > 
| 
| With the Tailor in place, I think this will automatically happen.
| Tailor creates the necessary commits and applies them to /silver.

That is great! Many thanks.

| If you are subscribed to the axiom-commits email list, then you
| should receive the usual notices. Did you receive the chain of about
| 8 commit notices that were a result of my fumbling around with svn
| commands and setting up the robot script last night?

I received copies of all the changes you made last night.

| Or did you have something else in mind?

no, if you've set a robot in place to notify of the changes, then that
is perfect!

-- Gaby



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> What I know for sure is that I have five students who all have hard
> time with Axiom silver and I had to give them
> axiom.build-improvements.  One group is working on formal power series,
> and the other is working on algorithmic differentiation.

What exactly is the goal of the formal power series group?

Ralf



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Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

| Tim --
| 
|   def.lisp is loaded twice into debugsys.

This patch -- applied to build-improvements -- removes the duplicate
load.

Built and tested on an x86-suse-linux.

-- Gaby

2006-10-26  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>

	* debugsys.lisp.pamphlet (build-interpsys): Load def.lisp only once.

*** debugsys.lisp.pamphlet	(revision 15151)
--- debugsys.lisp.pamphlet	(local)
*************** loaded by hand we need to establish a va
*** 192,198 ****
      (thesymb "/int/interp/patches.lisp")))
    (list
      (thesymb "/int/interp/bootlex.lisp")
-     (thesymb "/int/interp/def.lisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/fnewmeta.lisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/metalex.lisp")
      (thesymb "/int/interp/metameta.lisp")
--- 192,197 ----



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] paths to viewport in build-improvements
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I looked at hypertex pages and AFAICS I can use a simple sed script
in a loop to fix paths in .pht files:

sed 's,/doc/viewports/,/share/viewports/,g'

After copying images from silver (to correct corruption which I described
in anothe mail) and applying this script I was able to see graphic
examples in build-imporvements.

However, I am not sure if the new path that is '$AXIOM/share/viewports'
is a good one. Namely, both viewports are machine independent. OTOH
$AXIOM points to a machine dependent directory. So using 
'$AXIOM/share/viewports' does not allow sharing (without symlink trickery)
of machine independent binaries.  Comments in the source state that NAG
version used '$AXIOM/../../share/viewports' which allow easy sharing.
If we agree that last part of '$AXIOM' corresponds to architecture specific
subdirectory, then also '$AXIOM/../share/viewports' would allow sharing.

The same issue of sharing affect hypertex pages: currently they use
'$AXIOM/share/hypertex/pages', which conflicts with sharing, while
'$AXIOM/../share/hypertex/pages' would allow it.


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] [build-improvements] Update to recent
	GCL-2.6.8pre CVS
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Hi,

  This patchlet updates GCL to the most recent version of GCL-2.6.8pre
(as of yesterday night, central time).  It also has us stop applying
toploop.patch: the patch failed to apply cleanly because the portion of 
code it touches had been slightly reworked.  Consequently, I remove
the patch altogether.  

Built and tested on an x86-suse-linux where GCL is not installed.

-- Gaby

lsp/
2006-10-26  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>

	* Makefile.pamphlet ($(axiom_build_bindir)/gcl): Don't apply
	toploop.patch anymore.
	(<<gcl-2.6.8pre.toploop.patch>>): Remove.
	* Makefile.in: Regenerate.

zips/
2006-10-26  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>

	* gcl-2.6.8pre.tgz: Update.
	* gcl-2.6.8pre.unixport.init_gcl.lsp.in.patch: Remove.

*** lsp/Makefile.in	(revision 15151)
--- lsp/Makefile.in	(local)
*************** $(GCLVERSION):
*** 21,29 ****
  	$(TAR) -zxf $(axiom_optional_srcdir)/${GCLVERSION}.tgz
  
  $(axiom_build_bindir)/gcl: $(GCLVERSION)
- 	@(cd ${GCLVERSION}/unixport ; \
- 	  echo 7 applying toploop patch to unixport/init_gcl.lsp ; \
- 	  $(PATCH) < $(axiom_optional_srcdir)/${GCLVERSION}.unixport.init_gcl.lsp.in.patch )
  	(cd ${GCLVERSION} && \
  	./configure --prefix=$(axiom_builddir) --disable-xgcl ${GCLOPTS} && \
  	${ENV} $(MAKE) && $(ENV) $(MAKE) install)
--- 21,26 ----
*** lsp/Makefile.pamphlet	(revision 15151)
--- lsp/Makefile.pamphlet	(local)
*************** requires us to have XDR enabled.
*** 81,101 ****
  	  $(PATCH) < $(axiom_optional_srcdir)/${GCLVERSION}.unixport.makefile.patch )
  @
  
- \subsubsection{toploop patch}
- This patch turns off the banner display every time GCL starts.
- We could use the -batch flag but that would be a pervasive change.
- It isn't critical to the system builds but we will later be 
- capturing stdin and stdout and we do not want extra information
- printed.
- 
- Now, for some reason, lisp needs to tell you what the temporary directory
- for the compiler will be. We eliminate this noise as well as the banner.
- <<gcl-2.6.8pre.toploop.patch>>=
- 	@(cd ${GCLVERSION}/unixport ; \
- 	  echo 7 applying toploop patch to unixport/init_gcl.lsp ; \
- 	  $(PATCH) < $(axiom_optional_srcdir)/${GCLVERSION}.unixport.init_gcl.lsp.in.patch )
- @
- 
  \subsubsection{collectfn fix}
  In this version we have created a new subdirectory for use by GCL
  during compile time at [[obj/sys/lsp]]. We copy two files from 
--- 81,86 ----
*************** $(GCLVERSION):
*** 122,128 ****
  	$(TAR) -zxf $(axiom_optional_srcdir)/${GCLVERSION}.tgz
  
  $(axiom_build_bindir)/gcl: $(GCLVERSION)
- <<gcl-2.6.8pre.toploop.patch>>
  <<gclConfigureMake>>
  @
  
--- 107,112 ----
*** zips/gcl-2.6.8pre.unixport.init_gcl.lsp.in.patch	(revision 15151)
--- zips/gcl-2.6.8pre.unixport.init_gcl.lsp.in.patch	(local)
***************
*** 1,17 ****
- --- init_gcl.lsp.in	Mon Jan  9 12:24:57 2006
- +++ init_gcl.lsp.in.tpd	Mon Apr 17 20:40:05 2006
- @@ -85,12 +85,12 @@
-     (cond ((si::get-command-arg "-batch")
-  	  (setq si::*top-level-hook* 'bye))
-  	 ((si::get-command-arg "-f"))
- -	 (t (format t si::*system-banner*)
- +	 (t (format nil si::*system-banner*)
-  	    (let* ((c (find-package "COMPILER"))
-  		   (tmp (and c (find-symbol "*TMP-DIR*" c))))
-  	      (when tmp
-  		(setf (symbol-value tmp) (funcall (find-symbol "GET-TEMP-DIR" c)))
- -	(format t "Temporary directory for compiler files set to ~a~%" (symbol-value tmp))))))
- +	(format nil "Temporary directory for compiler files set to ~a~%" (symbol-value tmp))))))
-     (setq si::*ihs-top* 1)
-     (in-package 'system::user) (incf system::*ihs-top* 2)
-     (funcall system::*old-top-level*))
--- 0 ----



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To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] paths to viewport in build-improvements
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From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| I looked at hypertex pages and AFAICS I can use a simple sed script
| in a loop to fix paths in .pht files:
| 
| sed 's,/doc/viewports/,/share/viewports/,g'
| 
| After copying images from silver (to correct corruption which I described
| in anothe mail) and applying this script I was able to see graphic
| examples in build-imporvements.
| 
| However, I am not sure if the new path that is '$AXIOM/share/viewports'
| is a good one. Namely, both viewports are machine independent. OTOH
| $AXIOM points to a machine dependent directory. So using 
| '$AXIOM/share/viewports' does not allow sharing (without symlink trickery)
| of machine independent binaries.  Comments in the source state that NAG
| version used '$AXIOM/../../share/viewports' which allow easy sharing.
| If we agree that last part of '$AXIOM' corresponds to architecture specific
| subdirectory, then also '$AXIOM/../share/viewports' would allow sharing.
| 
| The same issue of sharing affect hypertex pages: currently they use
| '$AXIOM/share/hypertex/pages', which conflicts with sharing, while
| '$AXIOM/../share/hypertex/pages' would allow it.

This is an issue I was hoping to resolve very late in the process :-)

More precisely, the machine independent stuff should go into 
$prefix/share/axiom/$axiomversion/.  However, I have not decided on
that yet because I'm still thinking of it.  So, for the moment, I
would say $AXIOM/share/viewports is good enough.

(Also, the axiom script should go into $prefix/bin, possibly suffixed
with version number and a hardlink "axiom" to that suffixed script).

However, I think neither $AXIOM/../.. nor $AXIOM/../ is "right".

(Also, $AXIOM needs to lose "target", and the machine dependent stuff
should be installed in $libexec.)

As for the files, Ralf did the correct thing in setting the properties.

-- Gaby



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> On Friday, October 27, 2006 6:05 PM Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> > 
> > I have noticed that most viewports in build-imporvements is
> > corrupted.  Namely, viewports directories contain compressed
> > bitmaps.  Trying to decompress them produces messuge like:
> > 
> > zcat: 
> > build-improvements/src/hyper/viewports/AssortedGraphicsExample
> >  Page1.VIEW/image.bm.Z: corrupt input.
> > 
> > Corresponding files in silver decompress OK.
> 
> Have you compared these files in SVN /trunk and the new /silver?
> /trunk was originally created by a flawed procedure at
> SourceForge which accepted the incorrect metadata from CVS
> without question and was subsequently corrected, while /silver
> was create by a complete different route. I am hoping that
> the problem did not re-occur in /silver.
>

I run diff on the checked out trees and it reported no differences of
binary files.  I also looked at output of 'svn proplist --verbose'
and it looks OK.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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Gaby,

The def.lisp file occurs in two places but for different reasons.
If you look at the function build-interpsys in util.lisp.pamphlet
you see that it takes several arguments.

load-files 
parse-files -- contains the first instance of def.lisp
comp-files
browse-files
translate-files -- contains the second instance of def.lisp
nagbr-files 
asauto-files

as well as a set of pathnames derived during the make process.

spad
lsp
src
int
obj
mht
sys

It is not clear to me yet that this is actually a duplicate use.
The question is, what is the semantic difference between the files
in the parse-files list and the translate-files list and how are
they used. 

The fact that the same file NAME occurs in two lists implies nothing.

Since we do not have a reliable test suite with sufficient coverage
means that we cannot claim that "it works to remove it". We need to
understand why it occurs and then show that it does no harm to remove it.

t



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> If we agree that last part of '$AXIOM' corresponds to architecture specific
> subdirectory, then also '$AXIOM/../share/viewports' would allow sharing.

The $AXIOM variable points to "the final distribution" directory.
It is possible to copy $AXIOM anywhere and get a complete system.

The $OBJ/$SYS is the architecture specific directory.

t



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>   This patchlet updates GCL to the most recent version of GCL-2.6.8pre
> (as of yesterday night, central time).  It also has us stop applying
> toploop.patch: the patch failed to apply cleanly because the portion of 
> code it touches had been slightly reworked.  Consequently, I remove
> the patch altogether.  


The comment reads:

- This patch turns off the banner display every time GCL starts.
- We could use the -batch flag but that would be a pervasive change.
- It isn't critical to the system builds but we will later be 
- capturing stdin and stdout and we do not want extra information
- printed.

so that we control the banner information. This has been important
in the past and will be in the future as we port to various common
lisp systems. 

Why remove the patch instead of fixing it?

t




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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Do you think you have a spare cycle to backport Ralf's fixes to
> build-improvements? 
> 

Ralf fixes are revisions 136 and 137 on SF /trunk. I tried to
use 

svn merge -r 135:137 https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom/trunk

(and also more fine grained variations) but that fails due to
truncated connections.  However I can do (and did) the changes easily
on local copy:

cd src/hyper/viewports
svn propdel svn:keywords */*.Z
svn propdel svn:eol-style */*.Z

and then

svn proplist --verbose */*.Z

gives empty output. I think that minimize problems with big commits
it is best to do correction in stages.  Besides viewport we need to
correct properties (and then commit a fixed version) a few other files:
axiom30yr.jpg, axiomicon.png, axiomlogo.jpg, axiomsml.png,
src/doc/bookvol1.pdf, src/doc/french/ac20.pdf, src/doc/french/manuel1.pdf,
src/doc/french/manuel2.pdf

There is also corrupted binary src/share/algebra/libaxiom.al, but
it is unused and probably out of date (it is my next candidate for
deletion, but it fate can be discussed later), so I would leave it alone.


OK to go on?

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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> 
> | Tim --
> | 
> |   def.lisp is loaded twice into debugsys.
> 
> This patch -- applied to build-improvements -- removes the duplicate
> load.

This patch is incorrect and should be removed.




It turns out that (see lines 152, 154of the build-interpsys function
in util.lisp) there are lists of functions which will trigger
autoloading of files for a specific purpose.

Autoloading works by replacing the function definition you see in
various files with an autoload function (see line 250 in util.lisp).

When you try to execute a function you do NOT get the function 
defined in the source file. Instead you execute the mkBootAutoLoad
function which loads all of the files in the list (using the 
boot-load function). Then it "re-executes" the call.

Thus Axiom changes itself at runtime. You have to be very careful
what macros exist, what the environment is, and what the definitions
of the autoloaded functions are.






There is a list of functions (see line 357 of util.lisp) that will
trigger autoloading of files which include def.lisp. These files
are the functions needed to translate boot code to common lisp.

There is a list of functions (see line 448 of util.lisp) that will
trigger autoloading of files which include def.lisp. These files
are the functions needed to translate aldor code from spad code.
(I vaguely remember working on that function). So this change
would cause a failure only after the aldor compiler is rejoined
to axiom.

As you can see these are two separate uses that occur at two
different times for two different reasons under two different 
conditions.

This is why I say it is much harder to change axiom than it appears.
Be very careful about preserving build order from the makefiles
(because macros change the meaning of things), preserving the files
that get loaded even if the reasons are not obvious, preserving the
symbols that get defined because the compiler dynamically constructs
symbols, etc.






Nothing in Axiom is simple, functions get redefined "on the fly"
(this is also how algebra works), symbols get redefined, results
get cached. It's all highly optimized and extremely self-modifying.
And it all has to be checked in detail before going gold.






It is very easy to break things and very hard to find and debug them.

t








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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| Gaby,
| 
| The def.lisp file occurs in two places but for different reasons.
| If you look at the function build-interpsys in util.lisp.pamphlet
| you see that it takes several arguments.
| 
| load-files 
| parse-files -- contains the first instance of def.lisp
| comp-files
| browse-files
| translate-files -- contains the second instance of def.lisp
| nagbr-files 
| asauto-files
| 
| as well as a set of pathnames derived during the make process.

The load-files are loaded immediately.  (but def.lisp is not there).

All of the parse-files, comp-files, browse-files, translate-files,
nagbr-files, and asauto-files are stored for the autoload machinery.  

def.lisp is on both the parse-files and translate-files lists as you
noted.   My understanding is that parsing always preceeds translation
(SPAD to Aldor); consequently, by the time the system gets to
translate it already loaded def.lisp.  See compiler.boot

    if translateOldToNew then
        oldParserAutoloadOnceTrigger()
        browserAutoloadOnceTrigger()
        spad2AsTranslatorAutoloadOnceTrigger()
        sayKeyedMsg("S2IZ0085", nil)
        convertSpadToAsFile path



In util.lisp, oldParserAutoloadOnceTrigger seems not to have been
called:

    (defun |tr| (fn)
      (|oldCompilerAutoloadOnceTrigger|)
      (|browserAutoloadOnceTrigger|)
      (|spad2AsTranslatorAutoloadOnceTrigger|)
      (|convertSpadFile| fn) )

However, I don't see how that can work without first parsing.

Furthermore, the file wi1.boot redefines another function named "tr".
No wonder how this ever workded :-)

| spad
| lsp
| src
| int
| obj
| mht
| sys

As I think I've explained in a mail some time ago, most of the above
arguments are usefuless.  Only "spad" and an argument for the build
directory of interp is needed.  I posted a patch to clear up that
aspect sometime ago.

| It is not clear to me yet that this is actually a duplicate use.
| The question is, what is the semantic difference between the files
| in the parse-files list and the translate-files list and how are
| they used. 
| 
| The fact that the same file NAME occurs in two lists implies nothing.
| 
| Since we do not have a reliable test suite with sufficient coverage
| means that we cannot claim that "it works to remove it". We need to
| understand why it occurs and then show that it does no harm to remove it.

Agreed, but we need to do something when things are "obviously wrong"
and we can't always stay stationary because we don't have complete
coverrage :-) 


[if you feel like you need to say something about "it should just
work", please resist :-)]

-- Gaby



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > Do you think you have a spare cycle to backport Ralf's fixes to
| > build-improvements? 
| > 
| 
| Ralf fixes are revisions 136 and 137 on SF /trunk. I tried to
| use 
| 
| svn merge -r 135:137 https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom/trunk
| 
| (and also more fine grained variations) but that fails due to
| truncated connections.  However I can do (and did) the changes easily
| on local copy:
| 
| cd src/hyper/viewports
| svn propdel svn:keywords */*.Z
| svn propdel svn:eol-style */*.Z
| 
| and then
| 
| svn proplist --verbose */*.Z
| 
| gives empty output. I think that minimize problems with big commits
| it is best to do correction in stages.  Besides viewport we need to
| correct properties (and then commit a fixed version) a few other files:
| axiom30yr.jpg, axiomicon.png, axiomlogo.jpg, axiomsml.png,
| src/doc/bookvol1.pdf, src/doc/french/ac20.pdf, src/doc/french/manuel1.pdf,
| src/doc/french/manuel2.pdf
| 
| There is also corrupted binary src/share/algebra/libaxiom.al, but
| it is unused and probably out of date (it is my next candidate for
| deletion, but it fate can be discussed later), so I would leave it alone.
| 
| 
| OK to go on?

Yes!  

Many thanks!

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > If we agree that last part of '$AXIOM' corresponds to architecture specific
| > subdirectory, then also '$AXIOM/../share/viewports' would allow sharing.
| 
| The $AXIOM variable points to "the final distribution" directory.
| It is possible to copy $AXIOM anywhere and get a complete system.

To appreciate Waldek's point, one needs to be familiar with the GNU
standard build framework:

  http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/standards.html#Directory-Variables

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] [build-improvements] Update to recent
	GCL-2.6.8pre CVS
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From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| >   This patchlet updates GCL to the most recent version of GCL-2.6.8pre
| > (as of yesterday night, central time).  It also has us stop applying
| > toploop.patch: the patch failed to apply cleanly because the portion of 
| > code it touches had been slightly reworked.  Consequently, I remove
| > the patch altogether.  
| 
| 
| The comment reads:
| 
| - This patch turns off the banner display every time GCL starts.
| - We could use the -batch flag but that would be a pervasive change.
| - It isn't critical to the system builds but we will later be 
| - capturing stdin and stdout and we do not want extra information
| - printed.
| 
| so that we control the banner information. This has been important
| in the past and will be in the future as we port to various common
| lisp systems. 
| 
| Why remove the patch instead of fixing it?

Fixing the patch when the very idea of that particular patch is
already broken is pointless.

For reproducibility reasons, we should NOT be in the business of
patching GCL.  If we have an issue with GCL, we should fix it
*upstream*, not in Axiom.  Ideally, whether we build GCL or we use
system-wide installed GCL should be imaterial.  

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| It turns out that (see lines 152, 154of the build-interpsys function
| in util.lisp) there are lists of functions which will trigger
| autoloading of files for a specific purpose.

translation comes after parsing, which already autoloaded def.lisp.

What am I missing?

[...]

| This is why I say it is much harder to change axiom than it appears.

Please, that is tiresome and not helpful.

-- Gaby



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	Gabriel Dos Reis on 28 Oct 2006 03:58:20 +0200)
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] paths to viewport in build-improvements
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> | > If we agree that last part of '$AXIOM' corresponds to architecture specific
> | > subdirectory, then also '$AXIOM/../share/viewports' would allow sharing.
> | 
> | The $AXIOM variable points to "the final distribution" directory.
> | It is possible to copy $AXIOM anywhere and get a complete system.
> 
> To appreciate Waldek's point, one needs to be familiar with the GNU
> standard build framework:
> 
>   http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/standards.html#Directory-Variables

well i read that as having two alternatives. either 

1) all of axiom can be put in one directory with symbolic links or 
2) axiom is spread across the system into many directories.

case 1 is clearly the current design and obviously not going to happen.

will case 2 work on MACOSX and FreeBSD?




whatever choices get made PLEASE don't put a .. in the path.


t






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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > | > If we agree that last part of '$AXIOM' corresponds to architecture specific
| > | > subdirectory, then also '$AXIOM/../share/viewports' would allow sharing.
| > | 
| > | The $AXIOM variable points to "the final distribution" directory.
| > | It is possible to copy $AXIOM anywhere and get a complete system.
| > 
| > To appreciate Waldek's point, one needs to be familiar with the GNU
| > standard build framework:
| > 
| >   http://www.gnu.org/prep/standards/standards.html#Directory-Variables
| 
| well i read that as having two alternatives. either 
| 
| 1) all of axiom can be put in one directory with symbolic links or 
| 2) axiom is spread across the system into many directories.
| 
| case 1 is clearly the current design and obviously not going to happen.
| 
| will case 2 work on MACOSX and FreeBSD?

case 2 is actually very common (if not the most common) form.

As the system is currently setup, I'm leaning towards case 1, except
that I really have not made my mind yet.  It is a decision I would
like to make, once the build machinery works as "expected".

But whatever is chosen, we mush make sure that when each individual
variable is set on command line, we still build properly, install
properly, and function properly.

| whatever choices get made PLEASE don't put a .. in the path.

I personally don't put ".." in the path.  However, the Autotools might
put them, but what they do is correct because what happens it that the
../ and such _alwys_ navigate under $prefix, so that they never go outside.

(Currently, the final $AXIOM is two subdirectories under $prefix, but
one should not count on that)

-- Gaby



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> | It turns out that (see lines 152, 154of the build-interpsys function
> | in util.lisp) there are lists of functions which will trigger
> | autoloading of files for a specific purpose.
> 
> translation comes after parsing, which already autoloaded def.lisp.
> 
> What am I missing?

You're missing the fact that translation can occur at runtime long
after the build system is gone. This can be done by user commands.
So the files need to be available at runtime but are not normally
used except by developers so they are autoloaded.





> | This is why I say it is much harder to change axiom than it appears.
> 
> Please, that is tiresome and not helpful.

and also true. every line of code in axiom was written for a reason.
some lines MAY not be used anymore. proving code is dead is hard.
saying so IS tiresome but this example makes the point.

t





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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > | It turns out that (see lines 152, 154of the build-interpsys function
| > | in util.lisp) there are lists of functions which will trigger
| > | autoloading of files for a specific purpose.
| > 
| > translation comes after parsing, which already autoloaded def.lisp.
| > 
| > What am I missing?
| 
| You're missing the fact that translation can occur at runtime long
| after the build system is gone. 

Which "build system"?

The translation I'm talking about is the one that happens when the
system is *used*, i.e. fed with a SPAD file by user.  To get that
translation done, the parser must have been (auto)loaded.  No?

| This can be done by user commands.

I know; that is what I'm talking about.

How can the translation happen without a prior parsing? 

| So the files need to be available at runtime but are not normally
| used except by developers so they are autoloaded.

I know, I know.

Please, put aside for a moment that "modifying Axiom is hard", and
walk me trough a chain of events that would led to translation (asked
by user) without going through parsing.

| > | This is why I say it is much harder to change axiom than it appears.
| > 
| > Please, that is tiresome and not helpful.
| 
| and also true. every line of code in axiom was written for a reason.

Oh, I would not have guessed ;-)

-- Gaby



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> root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
> 
> | > | It turns out that (see lines 152, 154of the build-interpsys function
> | > | in util.lisp) there are lists of functions which will trigger
> | > | autoloading of files for a specific purpose.
> | > 
> | > translation comes after parsing, which already autoloaded def.lisp.
> | > 
> | > What am I missing?
> | 
> | You're missing the fact that translation can occur at runtime long
> | after the build system is gone. 
> 
> Which "build system"?
> 
> The translation I'm talking about is the one that happens when the
> system is *used*, i.e. fed with a SPAD file by user.  To get that
> translation done, the parser must have been (auto)loaded.  No?
>
> | This can be done by user commands.
> 
> I know; that is what I'm talking about.
> 
> How can the translation happen without a prior parsing? 
> 

In principle "user" can type-in parse tree by hand and call the translator.
More realistically, one can add code which directly generates Spad like
parse trees and then calls translator to output Aldor.

ATM both are very unlikely to happen, but hardcoding in translator
dependence on parser looks bad. 


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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> Ralf fixes are revisions 136 and 137 on SF /trunk. I tried to
> use 
> 
> svn merge -r 135:137 https://svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/axiom/trunk
> 
> (and also more fine grained variations) but that fails due to
> truncated connections.  However I can do (and did) the changes easily
> on local copy:
> 
> cd src/hyper/viewports
> svn propdel svn:keywords */*.Z
> svn propdel svn:eol-style */*.Z
> 
> and then
> 
> svn proplist --verbose */*.Z

To make it what I did, I included my commands in /trunk/axiom/ChangLog 
(date 2006-09-13 and 2006-09-14). I must have thought that these 
commands might be useful in the future. ;-)

That should help.

Ralf



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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| > root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:
| > 
| > | > | It turns out that (see lines 152, 154of the build-interpsys function
| > | > | in util.lisp) there are lists of functions which will trigger
| > | > | autoloading of files for a specific purpose.
| > | > 
| > | > translation comes after parsing, which already autoloaded def.lisp.
| > | > 
| > | > What am I missing?
| > | 
| > | You're missing the fact that translation can occur at runtime long
| > | after the build system is gone. 
| > 
| > Which "build system"?
| > 
| > The translation I'm talking about is the one that happens when the
| > system is *used*, i.e. fed with a SPAD file by user.  To get that
| > translation done, the parser must have been (auto)loaded.  No?
| >
| > | This can be done by user commands.
| > 
| > I know; that is what I'm talking about.
| > 
| > How can the translation happen without a prior parsing? 
| > 
| 
| In principle "user" can type-in parse tree by hand and call the translator.
| More realistically, one can add code which directly generates Spad like
| parse trees and then calls translator to output Aldor.

That is a good point, though as you mentioned, it is unlikely to
happen because the parse tree is undocumented and virtually nobody
knows how to construct them by "hand"

My removal was based on the observation that translation
cannot happen without parsing.  However, I'll restore the load on the
premise that translation can theoretically happen without parsing,
even if in practice, that is not going to happen.

Notice, that the removal was not based on the observation that the
file name appears twice or that something appears unused.

| ATM both are very unlikely to happen, but hardcoding in translator
| dependence on parser looks bad. 

agreed in principle; however notice

    if translateOldToNew then
        oldParserAutoloadOnceTrigger()             -- this load def.lisp
        browserAutoloadOnceTrigger()
        spad2AsTranslatorAutoloadOnceTrigger()
        sayKeyedMsg("S2IZ0085", nil)
        convertSpadToAsFile path


The function |tr| from util.lisp appears to be in the air, along with
"tr" from wi1.boot.

-- Gaby



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Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
> To make it what I did, I included my commands in /trunk/axiom/ChangLog 
> (date 2006-09-13 and 2006-09-14). I must have thought that these 
> commands might be useful in the future. ;-)
> 
> That should help.
> 

I first tried fully automatic way and in the meantime I read svn textbook.
At the time when I realized that automtic merge is not going to work, I 
found a way to set parametrs, so I just used it.  I used your commands
on '*.daase' files, but I think that may files on your list are in
fact text files.  I corrected all files which were corrupted except for
'libaxiom.al'.

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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> | In principle "user" can type-in parse tree by hand and call the translator.
> | More realistically, one can add code which directly generates Spad like
> | parse trees and then calls translator to output Aldor.

potentially aldor can also generate these parse trees.

memory fails me about why these are separated
and i'm busy merging axiom--silver--1 and the old trunk
so i can't pursue the possible cases in the aldor code.

t



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From: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org
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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
> 
> | I looked at hypertex pages and AFAICS I can use a simple sed script
> | in a loop to fix paths in .pht files:
> | 
> | sed 's,/doc/viewports/,/share/viewports/,g'
> | 
> | After copying images from silver (to correct corruption which I described
> | in anothe mail) and applying this script I was able to see graphic
> | examples in build-imporvements.
> | 
> | However, I am not sure if the new path that is '$AXIOM/share/viewports'
> | is a good one. Namely, both viewports are machine independent. OTOH
<snip>
> This is an issue I was hoping to resolve very late in the process :-)
> 

What about the following patch, where I replaced copy by sed so that
when installing .pht files. It allowed me to view graphic examples,
while in the future we can easily change patterns (as I wrote, we
should be able to generate pht files, so in long term Makefile will
be different).


diff -ru build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/Makefile.in build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.in
--- build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/Makefile.in	2006-10-27 23:37:14.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.in	2006-10-28 04:40:19.000000000 +0200
@@ -162,7 +162,11 @@
 	@echo making ${HYPER}/pages from $(axiom_src_srcdir)/pages directory
 	@ mkdir -p ${HYPER}/pages
 	@ cp -pr $(srcdir)/pages/*.ht ${HYPER}/pages
-	@ cp -pr $(srcdir)/pages/*.pht ${HYPER}/pages
+	@ (cd $(srcdir)/pages/ ; \
+	     for A in *.pht; do \
+		sed 's,/doc/viewports/,/share/viewports/,g' $$A \
+					> ${HYPER}/pages/$$A; \
+	     done )
 	@ (cd ${HYPER}/pages ; \
            rm -f ht.db ; \
            rm -f *~ ; \
diff -ru build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/Makefile.pamphlet build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.pamphlet
--- build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-27 23:37:14.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-28 04:31:09.000000000 +0200
@@ -250,7 +250,11 @@
 	@echo making ${HYPER}/pages from $(axiom_src_srcdir)/pages directory
 	@ mkdir -p ${HYPER}/pages
 	@ cp -pr $(srcdir)/pages/*.ht ${HYPER}/pages
-	@ cp -pr $(srcdir)/pages/*.pht ${HYPER}/pages
+	@ (cd $(srcdir)/pages/ ; \
+	     for A in *.pht; do \
+		sed 's,/doc/viewports/,/share/viewports/,g' $$A \
+					> ${HYPER}/pages/$$A; \
+	     done )
 	@ (cd ${HYPER}/pages ; \
            rm -f ht.db ; \
            rm -f *~ ; \

-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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To: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] axiom-silverbranch for linux.
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From: Francois Maltey <fmaltey@nerim.fr>
Date: 28 Oct 2006 12:14:41 +0200
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Hello Gabriel and everybody.

> | The previous step is right.
> 
> OK, great.
> 
> | Now make complains there is no X11/Xlib.h file.
> 
> Ah.  Now, we need to know more about your system. :-(

On my debian testing I have X11/gnome running but I must install
headers files for x11 and xt packages.

  apt-get install libx11-dev
  apt-get install libxt-dev

I began to compile 2 hours ago and the main make works without complains.

Francois



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To: Francois Maltey <fmaltey@nerim.fr>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] axiom-silverbranch for linux (libXpm.a not at
	the right place)
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> On my debian testing I have X11/gnome running but I must install
> headers files for x11 and xt packages.
>=20
>   apt-get install libx11-dev
>   apt-get install libxt-dev
>=20
> I began to compile 2 hours ago and the main make works without complains.
But I get a new error. The file isn't in the right place.

I add apt-get install libxpm-dev and get a new error.

The makefile of viewman is looking for a /usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.a file
but this file is in /usr/lib/libXpm.a.

ls -l /usr/lib/libXpm.a=20
-rw-r--r-- 1 root root 86648 2006-08-30 23:15 /usr/lib/libXpm.a

Where must I add a $I or $L option in order to force axiom to look=20
at the right place ?

make[3]: entrant dans le r=C3=A9pertoire =C2=AB /usr/local/axiom-local/src/=
graph =C2=BB
1 making /usr/local/axiom-local/src/graph/viewman
make[4]: entrant dans le r=C3=A9pertoire=20
  =C2=AB /usr/local/axiom-local/src/graph/viewman =C2=BB
  1 linking /usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/lib/viewman
gcc: /usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.a: Aucun fichier ou r=C3=A9pertoire de ce type
make[4]: *** [/usr/local/axiom-local/mnt/linux/lib/viewman] Erreur 1
make[4]: quittant le r=C3=A9pertoire =C2=AB /usr/local/axiom-local/src/grap=
h/viewman =C2=BB
make[3]: *** [viewmandir] Erreur 2
make[3]: quittant le r=C3=A9pertoire =C2=AB /usr/local/axiom-local/src/grap=
h =C2=BB
make[2]: *** [graphdir] Erreur 2
make[2]: quittant le r=C3=A9pertoire =C2=AB /usr/local/axiom-local/src =C2=
=BB
make[1]: *** [srcdir] Erreur 2
make[1]: quittant le r=C3=A9pertoire =C2=AB /usr/local/axiom-local =C2=BB
make: *** [all] Erreur 2



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[ Charset UTF-8 unsupported, converting... ]
> > On my debian testing I have X11/gnome running but I must install
> > headers files for x11 and xt packages.
> > 
> >   apt-get install libx11-dev
> >   apt-get install libxt-dev
> > 
> > I began to compile 2 hours ago and the main make works without complains.
> But I get a new error. The file isn't in the right place.
> 
> I add apt-get install libxpm-dev and get a new error.
> 
> The makefile of viewman is looking for a /usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.a file
> but this file is in /usr/lib/libXpm.a.
> 
> ls -l /usr/lib/libXpm.a 
> -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 86648 2006-08-30 23:15 /usr/lib/libXpm.a
> 
> Where must I add a $I or $L option in order to force axiom to look 
> at the right place ?
> 

That is a known issue: I am hitting it regularly (last time was two days
ago).  For quick fix I just edited Makefile.pamphlet changing 
all ocurences of XLIB=/usr/X11R6/lib to XLIB=/usr/lib (only one
is used, but for it was faster to chage all).


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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To: Francois Maltey <fmaltey@nerim.fr>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] axiom-silverbranch for linux (libXpm.a not at
	the right place)
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From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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Francois Maltey <fmaltey@nerim.fr> writes:

| > On my debian testing I have X11/gnome running but I must install
| > headers files for x11 and xt packages.
| > 
| >   apt-get install libx11-dev
| >   apt-get install libxt-dev
| > 
| > I began to compile 2 hours ago and the main make works without complains.
| But I get a new error. The file isn't in the right place.
| 
| I add apt-get install libxpm-dev and get a new error.
| 
| The makefile of viewman is looking for a /usr/X11R6/lib/libXpm.a file
| but this file is in /usr/lib/libXpm.a.
| 
| ls -l /usr/lib/libXpm.a 
| -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 86648 2006-08-30 23:15 /usr/lib/libXpm.a
| 
| Where must I add a $I or $L option in order to force axiom to look 
| at the right place ?

Everywhere whether the toplevel Makefile explicitly says
/path/to/libXpm.a is wrong.  Rather, it should just specify 

  -L/some/path  -lXpm

in the LDF variable.

Remove those junks from the Makefile.  If Xpm is in /usr/lib on your
system, just add -lXpm to LDFLAGS in the makefile -- the compiler will
automatically search /usr/lib because it is a standard place.  But You
can also add -L/usr/lib to LDFLAGS if you really want to be sure.

Add "-L/usr/lib"

-- Gaby



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To: Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] paths to viewport in build-improvements
References: <E1GdgBe-0006h9-00@hera.math.uni.wroc.pl>
From: Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net>
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

| Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
| > Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:
| > 
| > | I looked at hypertex pages and AFAICS I can use a simple sed script
| > | in a loop to fix paths in .pht files:
| > | 
| > | sed 's,/doc/viewports/,/share/viewports/,g'
| > | 
| > | After copying images from silver (to correct corruption which I described
| > | in anothe mail) and applying this script I was able to see graphic
| > | examples in build-imporvements.
| > | 
| > | However, I am not sure if the new path that is '$AXIOM/share/viewports'
| > | is a good one. Namely, both viewports are machine independent. OTOH
| <snip>
| > This is an issue I was hoping to resolve very late in the process :-)
| > 
| 
| What about the following patch, where I replaced copy by sed so that
| when installing .pht files. It allowed me to view graphic examples,
| while in the future we can easily change patterns (as I wrote, we
| should be able to generate pht files, so in long term Makefile will
| be different).

Please add in the main pamphlet file, an explanation of why we need
the sed transformation.  Some along the line of


   The [[.pht]] files contain hardcoded pathnames to bitmap files in the
   installed system.  Of course, that is asking for trouble.  During
   installation, we must change those paths to reflect the correct
   location of the bitmap files.  That necessary step is implemented
   as: 
	     for A in `ls *.pht`; do \
		sed 's,/doc/viewports/,/share/viewports/,g' $$A \
					> ${HYPER}/pages/$$A; \

   In the long term, the [[.pht]] should be generated at either build
   time or installation time.

Please expand as necessary, but we do need an explanation of why we
are doing that.


| diff -ru build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/Makefile.in build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.in
| --- build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/Makefile.in	2006-10-27 23:37:14.000000000 +0200
| +++ build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.in	2006-10-28 04:40:19.000000000 +0200
| @@ -162,7 +162,11 @@
|  	@echo making ${HYPER}/pages from $(axiom_src_srcdir)/pages directory
|  	@ mkdir -p ${HYPER}/pages
|  	@ cp -pr $(srcdir)/pages/*.ht ${HYPER}/pages
| -	@ cp -pr $(srcdir)/pages/*.pht ${HYPER}/pages
| +	@ (cd $(srcdir)/pages/ ; \
| +	     for A in *.pht; do \

For portability, please write the above as 

             for A in `ls *.pht`; do \

[...]

| -	@ cp -pr $(srcdir)/pages/*.pht ${HYPER}/pages
| +	@ (cd $(srcdir)/pages/ ; \
| +	     for A in *.pht; do \

Ditto.

Thanks!

-- Gaby



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] [build-improvements] Espace Lisp Esapce character
	in newfort.boot
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Hi,

  This patchlet fixes a thinko in src/interp/newfort.boot.
The short explanation is that the use of "!" does not math the
"specification" in src/boot/Makefile

   The standard identifiers start with a letter (a-z or A-Z) dollar
   sign (\$), question mark (?), or the percent sign (%), and are 
   followed by any number of letters, digits, single quotes('),
   question marks, or percent signs.  It is possible however, by using
   the escape character (\_), to construct identifiers that contain
   any characters except the blank or newline character.


The long explanation is delayed, but in nutshell "!" is the escape
character in new Boot for introducing Lisp expressions in Boot.  It
needs to be escaped when used as part of an identifier.  I uncovered
this when translating newfort.boot with bootsys (new Boot translator).

-- Gaby

2006-10-28  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>

	* newfort.boot.pamphlet (updateSymbolTable): Escape ! in names.
 
*** newfort.boot.pamphlet	(revision 15931)
--- newfort.boot.pamphlet	(local)
*************** currentSP () ==
*** 743,749 ****
    $currentSubprogram or "MAIN"
   
  updateSymbolTable(name,type) ==
!     fun := ['$elt,'SYMS,'declare!]
      coercion := ['_:_:,STRING type,'FST]
      $insideCompileBodyIfTrue: local := false
      interpret([fun,["QUOTE",name],coercion])
--- 743,749 ----
    $currentSubprogram or "MAIN"
   
  updateSymbolTable(name,type) ==
!     fun := ['$elt,'SYMS,'declare_!]
      coercion := ['_:_:,STRING type,'FST]
      $insideCompileBodyIfTrue: local := false
      interpret([fun,["QUOTE",name],coercion])



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Gabriel Dos Reis <gdr@integrable-solutions.net> writes:

[...]

| Please expand as necessary, but we do need an explanation of why we
| are doing that.

I forgot to add: Please, send a new patch to the list with ChangeLog
entry. 

-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] def.lisp
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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > | In principle "user" can type-in parse tree by hand and call the translator.
| > | More realistically, one can add code which directly generates Spad like
| > | parse trees and then calls translator to output Aldor.
| 
| potentially aldor can also generate these parse trees.

Are you saying the Aldor compiler can parse SPAD but would not
itself translate the parse tree to Aldor?


Anyway, def.lisp was never removed from the actual compiler that is
installed.  Here is a documentation committed to build-improvements.

-- Gaby

2006-10-28  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>

	* Makefile.pamphlet: Explain why def.$(OBJEXT) may be loaded
	twice. 

*** Makefile.pamphlet	(revision 15933)
--- Makefile.pamphlet	(local)
*************** The {\bf OPOBJS} list contains files fro
*** 305,310 ****
--- 305,320 ----
  ``old'' is something of a subtle concept as there were several
  generations of ``old'' and all meaning of the term is lost.
  
+ Notice that the object file [[def.$(OBJEXT)]] appears on both the
+ [[OPBJS]] and [[TRANOBJS]] lists.  In normal situation, parsing 
+ precedes translation; consequently the file [[def]] is loaded by the 
+ parser, so that it does not need to be reloaded by the translator. 
+ However, it may theoretically be that a translation could happen without 
+ prior parsing (in case someone types in a parse tree for SPAD code).  
+ Consequently, it must be ensured that [[def.]] is still loaded in that
+ configuration.  In the long term, the autoload machinery need
+ rethinking.
+ 
  <<environment>>=
  # These are autloaded old parser files
  OPOBJS=	${AUTO}/parsing.$(OBJEXT)	${AUTO}/bootlex.$(OBJEXT)	\



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	[209] trunk3)
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Le jeudi 26 octobre 2006 =E0 22:23 -0700, billpage@users.sourceforge.net =
a
=E9crit :
> Revision: 209
>           http://svn.sourceforge.net/axiom/?rev=3D209&view=3Drev
> Author:   billpage
> Date:     2006-10-26 22:23:36 -0700 (Thu, 26 Oct 2006)
>=20

[...]

> 20060906 cxm src/interp/nlib.lisp (and (directory filearg...
> 20060901 tpd src/interp/nlib.lisp (probe-file =3D> (directory (truename
>=20
> Original author: Tim Daly <root@home>
> Date: 2006-10-24 21:52:10-04:00

[...]

> Modified: trunk3/trunk3/src/interp/nlib.lisp.pamphlet
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> --- trunk3/trunk3/src/interp/nlib.lisp.pamphlet	2006-10-27 04:37:59 UTC=
 (rev 208)
> +++ trunk3/trunk3/src/interp/nlib.lisp.pamphlet	2006-10-27 05:23:36 UTC=
 (rev 209)
> @@ -473,10 +473,24 @@
>      (some #'(lambda (ft) (make-input-filename file-name ft))
>  	  filetypelist)))
> =20
> +@
> +Apparently probe-file cannot properly handle directories and
> +treat them as regular files so we need to change the test from:
> +\begin{verbatim}
> +  (if (probe-file filearg)
> +\end{verbatim}
> +to
> +\begin{verbatim}
> +  (if (directory (truename filearg))
> +\end{verbatim}
> +Camm feels that we should be testing for null so the code has
> +again been changed to reflect that. And since truename was
> +the previous change we wrap it around the make-full-namestring call.
> +<<*>>=3D
>  ;; ($ERASE filearg) -> 0 if succeeds else 1
>  (defun $erase (&rest filearg)
> -  (setq filearg (make-full-namestring filearg))
> -  (if (probe-file filearg)
> +  (setq filearg (truename (make-full-namestring filearg)))
> +  (if (and (directory filearg) (not (probe-file filearg)))
>  #+:CCL (delete-file filearg)
>  #+:AKCL
>        (if (library-file filearg) ; always true (Greg)
          (delete-directory filearg)
          (delete-file filearg))
      1))



Grrr... you broke my code... and you introduced some bugs :-)

Here you affect a pathname to filearg but you will use delete-directory
with this pathname as argument. delete-directory want a string since its
code is:

(defun delete-directory (dirname)
   (system (concat "rm  -r " dirname)))

concat does not take pathname as argument.

More complicated to explain: 'erase' uses make-full-namestring which
returns approximately (concat current-directory the-argument) and calls
truename which will return a pathname even if this pathname does not
exist (I consider this as a bug in GCL). So, since 'directory' in GCL
returns a list of files or directories (more precisely pathnames) that
matches a "pattern" (see the end of this mail), 'delete-directory' will
be called if you have a file or a directory with a name "pattern
matched" even if this file or directory does not exist.

Now even if you fix the code, with 'namestring' for example, $erase will
work only on directories (~> _(not (probe-file filearg)_). If we
consider that 'probe-file' worked in the past on directories and files
the $erase function need to be able to delete file too.

$erase is used "everywhere" in the interpreter and I can not check if
this new specialisation of $erase will break the code so I can not say
that this is a bug, I can only say: "hey guys you broke my code and
possibly other part of the interpreter please allow $erase to work on
file too, in this way I'll continue to use it or I will create the old
$erase function with a different name." :-)

Here is the code that I use actually but it's no meant to be included in
Axiom, do what you want with it (directoryp can be rewritten in
"full-lisp" with the new si::stat GCL function now):


;; ($ERASE filearg) -> 0 if succeeds else 1
(defun $erase (&rest filearg)
  (setq filearg (make-full-namestring filearg))
  (if (or (probe-file filearg) (eql (|directoryp| filearg) 1))
; In CCL delete-file can delete a directory?
#+:CCL (delete-file filearg)
#+:AKCL
      (if (library-file filearg) ; always true (can be removed)
          (delete-directory filearg)
          (delete-file filearg))
      1))


Greg


=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
(directory "/home/greg/Axiom/te") returns for me:

(#p"/home/greg/Axiom/test1.ao" #p"/home/greg/Axiom/test1.as"
#p"/home/greg/Axiom/test1.asy" #p"/home/greg/Axiom/test1.fn"
#p"/home/greg/Axiom/test1.lsp" #p"/home/greg/Axiom/test1.o"
#p"/home/greg/Axiom/test.ao" #p"/home/greg/Axiom/test.as"
#p"/home/greg/Axiom/test.asy" #p"/home/greg/Axiom/test.axh"
#p"/home/greg/Axiom/teste.spad" #p"/home/greg/Axiom/test.fn"
#p"/home/greg/Axiom/test.input" #p"/home/greg/Axiom/test.lsp"
#p"/home/greg/Axiom/test.o" #p"/home/greg/Axiom/test.spad")

note that there is no te directory nor te file.




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	character in newfort.boot
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ah. i should learn to read ALL my mail before replying.

perhaps you should include this email explanation in the 
source file comments.

t



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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> Please add in the main pamphlet file, an explanation of why we need
> the sed transformation.  Some along the line of
>
<snip> 
> Please expand as necessary, but we do need an explanation of why we
> are doing that.
> 
> 
> | diff -ru build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/Makefile.in build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.in
> | --- build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/Makefile.in	2006-10-27 23:37:14.000000000 +0200
> | +++ build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.in	2006-10-28 04:40:19.000000000 +0200
> | @@ -162,7 +162,11 @@
> |  	@echo making ${HYPER}/pages from $(axiom_src_srcdir)/pages directory
> |  	@ mkdir -p ${HYPER}/pages
> |  	@ cp -pr $(srcdir)/pages/*.ht ${HYPER}/pages
> | -	@ cp -pr $(srcdir)/pages/*.pht ${HYPER}/pages
> | +	@ (cd $(srcdir)/pages/ ; \
> | +	     for A in *.pht; do \
> 
> For portability, please write the above as 
> 
>              for A in `ls *.pht`; do \

I am not sure why extra ls in backtics is more portable, but did that.
New patch below:

diff -ru build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/ChangeLog.build-improvements build-improvements/src/hyper/ChangeLog.build-improvements
--- build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/ChangeLog.build-improvements	2006-10-28 17:41:18.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements/src/hyper/ChangeLog.build-improvements	2006-10-28 17:51:48.000000000 +0200
@@ -1,5 +1,11 @@
 2006-10-28  Waldek Hebisch  <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
 
+	* Makefile.pamphlet (${HYPER}/pages/ht.db): correct paths to
+	viewports in installed .pht pages
+	* Makefile.in: Regenerate
+
+2006-10-28  Waldek Hebisch  <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl>
+
 	* viewport/*/* : Backport form trunk (135:137).  remove
 	svn:keywords and svn:eol-style properties. Set svn:mime-type
 	on *.Z files to application/octet-stream. Copy correct .Z
diff -ru build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/Makefile.in build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.in
--- build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/Makefile.in	2006-10-28 17:41:17.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.in	2006-10-28 17:51:48.000000000 +0200
@@ -162,7 +162,11 @@
 	@echo making ${HYPER}/pages from $(axiom_src_srcdir)/pages directory
 	@ mkdir -p ${HYPER}/pages
 	@ cp -pr $(srcdir)/pages/*.ht ${HYPER}/pages
-	@ cp -pr $(srcdir)/pages/*.pht ${HYPER}/pages
+	@ (cd $(srcdir)/pages/ ; \
+	     for A in `ls *.pht`; do \
+		sed 's,/doc/viewports/,/share/viewports/,g' $$A \
+					> ${HYPER}/pages/$$A; \
+	     done )
 	@ (cd ${HYPER}/pages ; \
            rm -f ht.db ; \
            rm -f *~ ; \
diff -ru build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/Makefile.pamphlet build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.pamphlet
--- build-improvements.bb/src/hyper/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-28 17:41:18.000000000 +0200
+++ build-improvements/src/hyper/Makefile.pamphlet	2006-10-28 17:51:48.000000000 +0200
@@ -241,6 +241,29 @@
 @
 
 \section{pages}
+
+The [[.pht]] files contain hardcoded pathnames to viewport directiries
+in the installed system.  Of course, that is asking for trouble.  During
+installation, we must change those paths to reflect the correct
+location of the viewports.  That necessary step is implemented
+as:
+\begin{verbatim}
+             for A in `ls *.pht`; do \
+                sed 's,/doc/viewports/,/share/viewports/,g' $$A \
+                                        > ${HYPER}/pages/$$A; \
+             done
+\end{verbatim}
+
+In the long term, the [[.pht]] and viewports should be generated at either
+build time or installation time using commands like:
+\begin{verbatim}
+             rm -f ht.db
+             ${HTADD} *.ht
+             for A in `ls *.ht`; do ${SMAN} -paste $$a ; done
+             rm -f ht.db
+             ${HTADD} *.ht *.pht
+\end{verbatim}
+
 We need to make sure that [[ht.db]], the hypertex database file
 is up to date. The file contains absolute offsets into the various
 [[ht]] and [[pht]] files so it must reflect the current pages. In
@@ -250,7 +273,11 @@
 	@echo making ${HYPER}/pages from $(axiom_src_srcdir)/pages directory
 	@ mkdir -p ${HYPER}/pages
 	@ cp -pr $(srcdir)/pages/*.ht ${HYPER}/pages
-	@ cp -pr $(srcdir)/pages/*.pht ${HYPER}/pages
+	@ (cd $(srcdir)/pages/ ; \
+	     for A in `ls *.pht`; do \
+		sed 's,/doc/viewports/,/share/viewports/,g' $$A \
+					> ${HYPER}/pages/$$A; \
+	     done )
 	@ (cd ${HYPER}/pages ; \
            rm -f ht.db ; \
            rm -f *~ ; \



-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| Gaby,
| 
|         * newfort.boot.pamphlet (updateSymbolTable): Escape ! in names.
| 
| why is this necessary (or even correct?).

See the explanation I gave on axiom-developer list.


| the code occurs in a 
| chunk and there is no need to escape latex symbols in chunks.

The reason has nothing to do with chunk or latex, but with Boot.

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| perhaps you should include this email explanation in the 
| source file comments.

I'm currently expanding on the documentation of Boot, and that
includes this particular case.


-- Gaby



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Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] paths to viewport in build-improvements
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Waldek Hebisch <hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl> writes:

[...]

| +The [[.pht]] files contain hardcoded pathnames to viewport directiries
                                                                    ^
s/directiries/directories/

| +in the installed system.  Of course, that is asking for trouble.  During
| +installation, we must change those paths to reflect the correct
| +location of the viewports.  That necessary step is implemented
| +as:
| +\begin{verbatim}
| +             for A in `ls *.pht`; do \
| +                sed 's,/doc/viewports/,/share/viewports/,g' $$A \
| +                                        > ${HYPER}/pages/$$A; \
| +             done
| +\end{verbatim}
| +
| +In the long term, the [[.pht]] and viewports should be generated at either
| +build time or installation time using commands like:
| +\begin{verbatim}
| +             rm -f ht.db
| +             ${HTADD} *.ht
| +             for A in `ls *.ht`; do ${SMAN} -paste $$a ; done
| +             rm -f ht.db
| +             ${HTADD} *.ht *.pht
| +\end{verbatim}

Great!

Thanks,

-- Gaby



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Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> In util.lisp, oldParserAutoloadOnceTrigger seems not to have been
> called:
> 
>     (defun |tr| (fn)
>       (|oldCompilerAutoloadOnceTrigger|)
>       (|browserAutoloadOnceTrigger|)
>       (|spad2AsTranslatorAutoloadOnceTrigger|)
>       (|convertSpadFile| fn) )
> 
> However, I don't see how that can work without first parsing.
> 
> Furthermore, the file wi1.boot redefines another function named "tr".
> No wonder how this ever workded :-)
> 

Greping for 'tr' shows no use of function 'tr' (there are few variables
of the same name).  IMHO this is strong indication that 'tr' is unused
-- possibly 'tr' is intended as debugging helper (but more likely it
was just forgotten).


-- 
                              Waldek Hebisch
hebisch@math.uni.wroc.pl 



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> > In util.lisp, oldParserAutoloadOnceTrigger seems not to have been
> > called:
> > 
> >     (defun |tr| (fn)
> >       (|oldCompilerAutoloadOnceTrigger|)
> >       (|browserAutoloadOnceTrigger|)
> >       (|spad2AsTranslatorAutoloadOnceTrigger|)
> >       (|convertSpadFile| fn) )
> > 
> > However, I don't see how that can work without first parsing.
> > 
> > Furthermore, the file wi1.boot redefines another function named "tr".
> > No wonder how this ever workded :-)
> > 
> 
> Greping for 'tr' shows no use of function 'tr' (there are few variables
> of the same name).  IMHO this is strong indication that 'tr' is unused
> -- possibly 'tr' is intended as debugging helper (but more likely it
> was just forgotten).

I believe that )tr was a "developer level command" (the command set
allows various subsets of commands to be displayed so not all commands
are available to everyone).

During the march to code release to NAG we "hid" some commands.
This one probably got hidden. Practically speaking all that means
is that we took it off the command list but it can still be reached
by typing:

)lisp (|tr| fn)

which is what we usually did. The correct behavior would be to
recover these "hidden" commands and document them.

t



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	[209] trunk3)
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> Grrr... you broke my code... and you introduced some bugs :-)
> 
> Here you affect a pathname to filearg but you will use delete-directory
> with this pathname as argument. delete-directory want a string since its
> code is:
> 
> (defun delete-directory (dirname)
>    (system (concat "rm  -r " dirname)))
> 
> concat does not take pathname as argument.
> 
> More complicated to explain: 'erase' uses make-full-namestring which
> returns approximately (concat current-directory the-argument) and calls
> truename which will return a pathname even if this pathname does not
> exist (I consider this as a bug in GCL). So, since 'directory' in GCL
> returns a list of files or directories (more precisely pathnames) that
> matches a "pattern" (see the end of this mail), 'delete-directory' will
> be called if you have a file or a directory with a name "pattern
> matched" even if this file or directory does not exist.
> 
> Now even if you fix the code, with 'namestring' for example, $erase will
> work only on directories (~> _(not (probe-file filearg)_). If we
> consider that 'probe-file' worked in the past on directories and files
> the $erase function need to be able to delete file too.
> 
> $erase is used "everywhere" in the interpreter and I can not check if
> this new specialisation of $erase will break the code so I can not say
> that this is a bug, I can only say: "hey guys you broke my code and
> possibly other part of the interpreter please allow $erase to work on
> file too, in this way I'll continue to use it or I will create the old
> $erase function with a different name." :-)
> 
> Here is the code that I use actually but it's no meant to be included in
> Axiom, do what you want with it (directoryp can be rewritten in
> "full-lisp" with the new si::stat GCL function now):
> 
> 
> ;; ($ERASE filearg) -> 0 if succeeds else 1
> (defun $erase (&rest filearg)
>   (setq filearg (make-full-namestring filearg))
>   (if (or (probe-file filearg) (eql (|directoryp| filearg) 1))
> ; In CCL delete-file can delete a directory?
> #+:CCL (delete-file filearg)
> #+:AKCL
>       (if (library-file filearg) ; always true (can be removed)
>           (delete-directory filearg)
>           (delete-file filearg))
>       1))

You're using code which is not Gold.

The silver code, from any source, has NOT been tested.
I resisted making these changes public for a long time,
keeping them local until I ran tests and released them.

It was argued that the silver patches should be public
and I followed the consensus, putting up axiom--silver--1




The correct way to handle this change is to find all of
the places where any filename assumptions are made,
understand what the correct behavior is, and change
every location that is wrong. This has to happen before
the changes go into Gold which is planned for the end
of november. Any help with that effort would be apprciated.

t



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| During the march to code release to NAG we "hid" some commands.

!

| This one probably got hidden. Practically speaking all that means
| is that we took it off the command list but it can still be reached
| by typing:
| 
| )lisp (|tr| fn)
| 
| which is what we usually did.

when you do that, which "tr" do you expect to be called and why?

-- Gaby



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| 
| You're using code which is not Gold.

I suspect he's aware of that.

| The silver code, from any source, has NOT been tested.
| I resisted making these changes public for a long time,
| keeping them local until I ran tests and released them.
| 
| It was argued that the silver patches should be public
| and I followed the consensus, putting up axiom--silver--1

And that is a good thing.  And, you get testing for free :-)


The amazing thing about making codes public as quick as possible is
that there are people out there with "spare eyes" that can uncover
mistakes very quickly.  That is reason why we're insisting you make
your "to-be-gold" public is as soon as possible.

Personally, I'm glad that people here report how I break their codes,
so I can fix them.

-- Gaby



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Dear Bill,

"Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:

> Martin, 
> 
> On Friday, October 27, 2006 4:42 PM you wrote:
> > ... 
> > BTW, I think that issuetracker really needs one improvement: 
> > we need to be able to run old versions of axiom there. Many
> > many of the bug reports are strange to read, because the
> > examples provided don't fail anymore.
> >
> 
> Agreed. I have not found any easy way to do this nor enough
> time to do the necessary programming.

I think that this should not be so difficult. Is it possible for you to define
an environment like \begin{axiom}[optarg] ... \end{axiom} that takes an
optional argument which is passed to the script which calls axiom at the end?

You could simply install all patches of axiom we have in directories

axiom1, axiom2, ..., axiom50, ...

plus a symbolic link axiom which points to the last axiom which currently
exists - i.e., currently axiom50.

(Do we have enough space for so many axioms? Note that you can delete quite a
bit from these directories: at least all of doc and src)

Currently, your phyton stuff simply calls axiom and reads the collected stuff
within the environments of one page as an input file, doesn't it?

Now there are two possibilities: it could just call axiom in the right axiom
directory, depending on the argument of the first axiom environment of the page
- and simply ignore arguments of later axiom environments.

Or, it could collect inputs from environments with equal arguments, then
calling the corresponding axiom.

Maybe you could explain what the difficult part is. Maybe I get something
working then. Mind, though, that I don't know phython at all.

> Anyway, if someone would like to volunteer to lead an effort to contact these
> people formerly (and some currently) associated with Aldor, I think that
> would be much better than just remaining depressed. :-)

OK, I'll write something on Monday and send it to the list as proposal.

Martin




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Does somebody know what happens here?

Ralf

)expose PrimitiveElement
primitiveElement([x^2-2,x^2-3]$List(Polynomial Fraction Integer),[z2,z3])

    >> Error detected within library code:
    (1 . failed) cannot be coerced to mode (OrderedVariableList (z2 z3 %A))



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On 10/28/2006 06:22 AM, Waldek Hebisch wrote:
> Ralf Hemmecke wrote:
>> To make it what I did, I included my commands in /trunk/axiom/ChangLog 
>> (date 2006-09-13 and 2006-09-14). I must have thought that these 
>> commands might be useful in the future. ;-)
>>
>> That should help.
>>
> 
> I first tried fully automatic way and in the meantime I read svn textbook.
> At the time when I realized that automtic merge is not going to work, I 
> found a way to set parametrs, so I just used it.  I used your commands
> on '*.daase' files, but I think that may files on your list are in
> fact text files.  I corrected all files which were corrupted except for
> 'libaxiom.al'.

Sure many files *look* like text files, but you have heard Tim saying that

1) a SCM should never change the line ending format
2) some files are random access files. If SVN replaces \n by \r\n at 
checkout time, they are corrupt, since the byte count at the beginning 
of the file does not work anymore.

Ralf



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--- "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:

> Here is how I see the situation:
> 
>             |       |            |           |
>             |       |        darcs and       |
>             |    next big =  hg mirrors      |
>             |    experiment      |           |
>  gold       |   /                            |
>  gold <---- |  /                             |
>  (52)     silver  (SourceForge) <=====> Google Code
>             |                             mirror
>             |\___merge___                    |
>  gold <---- |            \        |          |
>  (51)       |\__          |       |          |
>            /    \   back  |   darcs and      |
>  gold <---|-<----\ .....> / = hg mirrors     |
>  (50)     /      /  port |        |          |
>          |      |        |        |          |
> Now:   silver trunk    build
>          |      |   improvements
>         tla     |    /
>                 |   /
>                 |  /
>  gold <------ trunk
>  (49)           |
>                CVS

Wow!  I dare you do do that in graphviz ;-)

Really, that looks like a very useful way to represent the workflow. 
Thanks Bill!

CY


 
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--- C Y <smustudent1@yahoo.com> wrote:

> --- "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> wrote:
> 
> > Here is how I see the situation:
> > 
> >             |       |            |           |
> >             |       |        darcs and       |
> >             |    next big =  hg mirrors      |
> >             |    experiment      |           |
> >  gold       |   /                            |
> >  gold <---- |  /                             |
> >  (52)     silver  (SourceForge) <=====> Google Code
> >             |                             mirror
> >             |\___merge___                    |
> >  gold <---- |            \        |          |
> >  (51)       |\__          |       |          |
> >            /    \   back  |   darcs and      |
> >  gold <---|-<----\ .....> / = hg mirrors     |
> >  (50)     /      /  port |        |          |
> >          |      |        |        |          |
> > Now:   silver trunk    build
> >          |      |   improvements
> >         tla     |    /
> >                 |   /
> >                 |  /
> >  gold <------ trunk
> >  (49)           |
> >                CVS
> 
> Wow!  I dare you do do that in graphviz ;-)

Er, s/do do/to do/


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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] [build-improvements] Update to
	recentGCL-2.6.8pre CVS
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On October 27, 2006 6:58 PM Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:
> 
>   This patchlet updates GCL to the most recent version of
> GCL-2.6.8pre (as of yesterday night, central time).  It also
> has us stop applying toploop.patch: the patch failed to apply
> cleanly because the portion of code it touches had been
> slightly reworked.  Consequently, I remove the patch altogether.  
> 
> Built and tested on an x86-suse-linux where GCL is not installed.
> 

toploop.patch is not necessary since the banner is stored in a
modifiable system variable called 'si::*system-banner*' and set
as desired. E.g.

  (setq si::*system-banner* "")
  (si:save-system "gcl-nobanner")

--------

Let me take this opportunity to raise again the question of
whether it still makes sense to store the gcl source as a
tarball in the axiom source tree. If we are going to keep a
copy of gcl around just in case we have to build it in order
to install axiom, then why don't we just make it a real part
of the axiom source tree. Why zip it? This just makes things
more complicated than it needs to be (and makes some people
at Google nervous :-).

Regards,
Bill Page.





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> Let me take this opportunity to raise again the question of
> whether it still makes sense to store the gcl source as a
> tarball in the axiom source tree. If we are going to keep a
> copy of gcl around just in case we have to build it in order
> to install axiom, then why don't we just make it a real part
> of the axiom source tree. Why zip it? This just makes things
> more complicated than it needs to be (and makes some people
> at Google nervous :-).

Let me take this opportunity to raise again the answer to the question.

Axiom is not trying to maintain a clone of GCL. The idea is to make
sure that Axiom works on a given platform with a given snapshot of GCL.
Adding it to the source tree as individual files is a waste of time.
Indeed, it might extend the SVN checkout by another half-hour if my
current experience is any measure.

At the present time we need to maintain two different snapshots of GCL,
one for general linux (gcl-2.6.8pre2) and one for fedora 5 (gcl-2.6.8pre).
These are incompatible. Worse yet, these two versions are not explicitly
tagged in the GCL CVS so we can't automatically fetch them. 

Eventually this difference will disappear but it needs to exist for now.

I'm not sure how Gaby will handle different patch sets to GCL that need
to be applied for different platforms. I'm awaiting that result.

In the fullness of time I expect that we will have an ANSI common lisp 
version of Axiom and will be again able to run on various platforms
using only standard common lisp primitives. However that goal may
require a restructuring of the Axiom build process. Eventually a GCL
special version will go away but not in the near future.

Indeed, an ASDF based version of Axiom will completely enclose the
whole issue into a proper lisp build framework and the whole build
process can disappear.




As for making Google nervous, this again raises the issue of forming
policy around the tools. It is a reprise of the noweb discussion.
What we want to do should be decided independent of the tool.

Google owns more online storage space than any single company in
history.  The idea of a 20M file should not make them cringe. I have
20M+ powerpoint presentations for work. If they won't host it then
I will personally pay for additional storage on axiom-developer.org
and solve the problem.




And since advocacy is volunteering we're awaiting the code which
implements your proposed alternate solution. Note that apt-get and
similar tools are not available for all platforms.  Even if you have
apt-get you can't install the tools without being root in most cases
because you are required to update minor things like glibc. In fact we
had this problem with latex and the sourceforge compile farm.  Do you
propose writing code to automate the CVS checkouts for GCL, Arch, and
noweb? If not, how do you plan to implement this?



Since you've raised this question so frequently I'll add it as a FAQ.

t




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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| At the present time we need to maintain two different snapshots of GCL,
| one for general linux (gcl-2.6.8pre2) and one for fedora 5 (gcl-2.6.8pre).
| These are incompatible. Worse yet, these two versions are not explicitly
| tagged in the GCL CVS so we can't automatically fetch them. 
| 
| Eventually this difference will disappear but it needs to exist for now.
| 
| I'm not sure how Gaby will handle different patch sets to GCL that need
| to be applied for different platforms. I'm awaiting that result.

I would welcome an access to that problematic platform to investigate
the issue. 

[...]

| Since you've raised this question so frequently I'll add it as a FAQ.

That, I believe, requires an answer that meets consensus ;-)

-- Gaby



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	torecentGCL-2.6.8pre CVS
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On October 29, 2006 4:19 PM Tim Daly wrote:

> 
>Bill Page wrote: 
> > Let me take this opportunity to raise again the question of
> > whether it still makes sense to store the gcl source as a
> > tarball in the axiom source tree. If we are going to keep a
> > copy of gcl around just in case we have to build it in order
> > to install axiom, then why don't we just make it a real part
> > of the axiom source tree. Why zip it? This just makes things
> > more complicated than it needs to be (and makes some people
> > at Google nervous :-).
> 
> Let me take this opportunity to raise again the answer to the 
> question.
>

Tim, you have never provided a satisfactory answer.
 
> Axiom is not trying to maintain a clone of GCL.

Agreed.

> The idea is to make sure that Axiom works on a given platform
> with a given snapshot of GCL.

Why should Axiom care about a particular snapshot of GCL?
We don't care about particular snapshots of gcc or other
build dependencies.
 
> Adding it to the source tree as individual files is a waste
> of time.

That is not true. Having to create and uncompress a tarball is
what is the waste of time. More over all of the source code
control systems that we are using work much better with actual
source files. Storing large binary blobs defeats the mechanisms
that are built in to these systems for efficiently handling source
code as source code (text files).

> Indeed, it might extend the SVN checkout by another half-hour
> if my current experience is any measure.

Your experience with SVN is unique and your conclusion is
nonsense. If anything, one of the causes of poor performance
is precisely because we are trying to store and copy objects
that are over 20 Mbytes in size. This is a large block of data
to move as one transaction. The compression methods that are
built into the source code control systems do not work very
well when applied to previously compressed binary data and in
some cases can even increase the amount of data that must be
transmitted.

> 
> At the present time we need to maintain two different snapshots
> of GCL, one for general linux (gcl-2.6.8pre2) and one for
> fedora 5 (gcl-2.6.8pre).

If there are problems installing gcl on a particular platform
then that should be addressed upstream by the maintainer of gcl,
not axiom. To do otherwise is to deprive other users of gcl
from the benefit of solving these problems. As you know, the
developer (Camm) is very responsive to problems that are
reported to him.

> These are incompatible. Worse yet, these two versions are not 
> explicitly tagged in the GCL CVS so we can't automatically
> fetch them. 

The reason you have tied yourself into this knot is because you
are trying to use pre-released versions of gcl. Pre-release
means pre-release and subject to change. There is no way that
you should be using such versions in Axiom Gold.

> 
> Eventually this difference will disappear but it needs to 
> exist for now.
>

I don't see why. If you report the problem that you have building
gcl on fedora 5 to Camm, I am sure the problem can be resolved
quickly and then you can incorporate an actual released version
of gcl-2.6.8 when it is available.
 
> I'm not sure how Gaby will handle different patch sets to GCL 
> that need to be applied for different platforms. I'm awaiting
> that result.

There is no need to handle patch sets against GCL.

> 
> In the fullness of time I expect that we will have an ANSI 
> common lisp version of Axiom and will be again able to run
> on various platforms using only standard common lisp primitives.
> However that goal may require a restructuring of the Axiom
> build process. Eventually a GCL special version will go away
> but not in the near future.

An ANSI common lisp version of Axiom has nothing to do
with this issue.

> 
> Indeed, an ASDF based version of Axiom will completely enclose
> the whole issue into a proper lisp build framework and the
> whole build process can disappear.
> 

I simply don't believe this statement at all.
 
> 
> 
> As for making Google nervous, this again raises the issue of
> forming policy around the tools. It is a reprise of the noweb
> discussion. What we want to do should be decided independent
> of the tool.

My original comment also applies to noweb. I don't see any
reason to keep it as a compressed zip file in the axiom source
tree. If we decide that we really do need a copy of noweb -
for convenience or whatever, then it should be stored some
source subdirectory just like gcl.

I don't understand what you mean by "independent of the tool".
Axiom is dependent on the tools needed to build axiom - that
is a fact.

> 
> Google owns more online storage space than any single company
> in history.  The idea of a 20M file should not make them cringe.
> I have 20M+ powerpoint presentations for work. If they won't
> host it then I will personally pay for additional storage on
> axiom-developer.org and solve the problem.
> 

I agree that Google is being unreasonable and I don't understand
why. But the reason to continue to "court" Google has nothing to
do with the resource that they may or may not make available - it
is simply because have a project present on Google Code gives it
more credibility and visibility just by association with Google.

We can certainly host the Axiom SVN repository on axiom-developer,
in fact we already have several versions of the repository there
already. The problem is only finding time to update the version
of Apache that is used there so that we can install the SVN
server software. I'll return to this real soon now, unless some
one has time to help sooner.

> 
> And since advocacy is volunteering we're awaiting the code which
> implements your proposed alternate solution.

That is not a problem. I am only talking about the build-improvements
version of Axiom. It only has one version of Axiom in the zips
directory and no patches. If gcl is previously installed on a system
then it doesn't't need the version in Axiom as all.

All I am suggesting is in build-improvements, scrap the zips
directory and put the source for both gcl and noweb directly in
the source tree where they can be found if needed.

> Note that apt-get and similar tools are not available for all
> platforms. Even if you have apt-get you can't install the tools
> without being root in most cases because you are required to
> update minor things like glibc. In fact we had this problem with
> latex and the sourceforge compile farm.

This is an issue that any linux developer has to solve in order
to setup a proper build environment. For most people this is not
a problem.

> Do you propose writing code to automate the CVS checkouts for
> GCL, Arch, and noweb? If not, how do you plan to implement this?
>

No. Implement what?
 
> 
> Since you've raised this question so frequently I'll add it as
> a FAQ.
> 

I hope you can think of a reasonable answer to accompany the
question. ;)

Regards,
Bill Page.





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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

[...]

| At the present time we need to maintain two different snapshots of GCL,
| one for general linux (gcl-2.6.8pre2) and one for fedora 5 (gcl-2.6.8pre).
| These are incompatible. Worse yet, these two versions are not explicitly
| tagged in the GCL CVS so we can't automatically fetch them. 

Sure you can retrieve them by their timestamps, right?

-- Gaby



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> I would welcome an access to that problematic platform to investigate
> the issue. 

Unfortunately my home machines have dynamic IPs so I can't give access.
Download an FC5 iso, install it, and try to do a build.
There was a library issue if I recall correctly.
Possilbly related to the GCC version.
Renaud Rioboo pointed it out to me at ISSAC.
If you look at Makefile.pamphlet the documentation there says:

On Fedora Core 5 we cannot use the line
\begin{verbatim}
  ${XLIB}/libXpm.a
\end{verbatim}
to link to the Xpm libraries. Instead We need to use
\begin{verbatim}
  -l Xpm
\end{verbatim}
These are added onto the end of the LDF variable.


I'm hoping FC6 doesn't have the problem.
I downloaded the isos this week and haven't installed it on a machine yet.

t
 



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: $erase (Re: SF.net SVN: axiom:	[209] trunk3)
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Le samedi 28 octobre 2006 =E0 13:06 -0400, root a =E9crit :
[...]
> You're using code which is not Gold.

Yes I know, and if I mention that this is for users of Silver and for
the possible inclusion of this patch into Gold.

>=20
> The silver code, from any source, has NOT been tested.
> I resisted making these changes public for a long time,
> keeping them local until I ran tests and released them.

I think it's a good idea to make them public: more testers, more fix if
necessary.

> It was argued that the silver patches should be public
> and I followed the consensus, putting up axiom--silver--1

> The correct way to handle this change is to find all of
> the places where any filename assumptions are made,
> understand what the correct behavior is, and change
> every location that is wrong. This has to happen before
> the changes go into Gold which is planned for the end
> of november. Any help with that effort would be apprciated.

More difficult to do... I quickly grepped the code and found several
places (not a lot apparently) where $erase is applied on file. It's
possible to modify them individually (for example create a macro or a
function (and (probe-file file) (delete-file file)). I found some other
places where it's applied on file that I don't know, splog file for
example. This research was not exhaustive. In any case we need a
function that deletes directories and $erase is a good one but it needs
to be fixed ((concat string pathname) bug). Personally I think it's
better to keep the old behavior (i.e operate on files and directories)
and modify every location where a file or a directory is deleted when
time permits.

Of course fixing this issue before the next Gold release is really
important (see for example bug "cannot rename .erlib to .nrlib").
The primary purpose of my mail (forget my joke and my use of $erase) was
to inform you and Gaby that it was buggy.

Greg

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
>  ;; ($ERASE filearg) -> 0 if succeeds else 1
>  (defun $erase (&rest filearg)
> -  (setq filearg (make-full-namestring filearg))
> -  (if (probe-file filearg)
> +  (setq filearg (truename (make-full-namestring filearg)))
> +  (if (and (directory filearg) (not (probe-file filearg)))
>  #+:CCL (delete-file filearg)
>  #+:AKCL
>        (if (library-file filearg) ; always true (Greg)
>          (delete-directory filearg)
>          (delete-file filearg))
>      1))




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Bill,

I believe you're not ready to hear my answer. Lets try experience...




Implement your suggestion in your own branch and we can experiment with it.
If the experiment hints that it is a success then we'll merge it into silver.

Clearly this will raise a lot of issues, such as 
how you plan to track changes in GCL, 
how you plan to handle partial versions where Camm has 
applied an axiom fix but not updated the version number, 
how you plan to allow for downgrading versions (ala the fedora5 issue), 
how axiom "hot fixes" will be handled before and after GCL upstream changes
etc...

All of these have current answers. 




You can follow the same scheme you use to handle distribution of the
Zope/Plone stuff to Doyen. I'm not sure how you do it. 

Does Alfredo apt-get Zope/Plone with your upstream changes?
Does Alfredo get a vanilla Zope/Plone CVS and then apply your changes? 
Do you maintain a Zope/Plone tarball and apply your changes? 
Do you maintain your own Zope/Plone CVS with your local changes? 
How do you get your changes pushed upstream? 
What if they aren't accepted?
Suppose Doyen uses Fedora6 and Zope/Plone doesn't work. What happens now?

Since you distribute the wiki then whatever your scheme is you can try to
set up axiom in the same way and we can experiment with it.

t






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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| > I would welcome an access to that problematic platform to investigate
| > the issue. 
| 
| Unfortunately my home machines have dynamic IPs so I can't give access.
| Download an FC5 iso, install it, and try to do a build.

I'll try that.  I've resurected an old laptop, but its harddrive is
still somehow flaky.

| There was a library issue if I recall correctly.
| Possilbly related to the GCC version.
| Renaud Rioboo pointed it out to me at ISSAC.
| If you look at Makefile.pamphlet the documentation there says:
| 
| On Fedora Core 5 we cannot use the line
| \begin{verbatim}
|   ${XLIB}/libXpm.a
| \end{verbatim}
| to link to the Xpm libraries. Instead We need to use
| \begin{verbatim}
|   -l Xpm
| \end{verbatim}
| These are added onto the end of the LDF variable.

I don't think that is just a Fedora Core 5 issue.  On all platforms, I
posit that it is a timebomb (read WRONG) to say
    ${XLIB}/libXpm.a

Rather, one should be saying

   -l Xpm

and add -L/path/to/X11.

Build-improvements corrected those, so I don't know whether you'll see
that problem there.

| I'm hoping FC6 doesn't have the problem.

It is a bug in Axiom makefile.

-- Gaby



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To: =?iso-8859-1?q?Vanuxem_Gr=E9gory?= <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr>
Subject: Re: [Axiom-developer] Re: $erase (Re: SF.net SVN: axiom:	[209] trunk3)
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Vanuxem Gr=E9gory <g.vanuxem@wanadoo.fr> writes:


[...]

| The primary purpose of my mail (forget my joke and my use of $erase) was
| to inform you and Gaby that it was buggy.

I was glad to hear the code had problems; otherwise, I would be
considering its inclusion in build-improvements.

-- Gaby



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--- Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:

> > Indeed, an ASDF based version of Axiom will completely enclose
> > the whole issue into a proper lisp build framework and the
> > whole build process can disappear.
> 
> I simply don't believe this statement at all.

Other issues aside Bill, asdf is in fact quite powerful.

Obviously the build process won't disappear entirely - what Tim means
is that the dependence of Axiom's build on machinery external to the
lisp environment will disappear.  This is probably true to a fairly
large extent, and I think will be a Good Thing for portability,
simplicity, etc.

Maxima is actually an excellent example of this in practice.  Maxima
builds using the configure make make-install routine, but most of the
core logic of things like build order is contained in defsystem, which
is a competitor/predecessor to asdf.  It is possible to build Maxima
entirely within a lisp environment - configure and friends act
basically as convenience interfaces to the lisp build process, while
also picking up a few non-lisp details like xmaxima.

Now of course, the self-containment aspect is practical only for the
parts of the system that are written in lisp, or a language implemented
in lisp.  Building other components in other languages like C are not
going to be as straightforward, but hopefully we will be able to
operate almost entirely in a lisp environment in the future and in that
situation the potential to simplify matters is considerable (think the
old cmucl port, for example).

However, asdf will most likely require that Axiom work in ANSI lisp. 
So it's a long term measure.  The beauty of Gaby's autoconf work is
that it can handle the current situation, but can also gradually and
gracefully be scaled back as more build logic gets added into lisp
without loss of functionality.

Eventually, what will hopefully happen is that configure and friends
will become the "public face" to the lisp build process, as in Maxima
today.  If Windows has other "standard" build methods than autoconf we
could trigger the lisp build process using those as well - making
maintaining them a minimal amount of work.  I think using asdf is a
good idea and one of the exciting possibilities opened up by ANSI
porting.

When I played around with Axiom on sbcl, I tried using asdf and found
it quite interesting.  Unfortunately, it seems to result in a more
finicky situation where code that would normally (e.g during a load)
just give out warnings cause failures instead, which halted my progress
at bookvol5.lisp.  (Or maybe this is good, since it forces one to
confront the issues - dunno.)  

Of course, that leaves organizing the code using asdf, which in turn
involves the little detail of understanding what the code is doing...
;-)

Cheers,
CY


 
____________________________________________________________________________________
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I vaguely remember that somebody managed to have HyperDoc on MS-windows, given
that an X-server is installed?

Martin





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yes, i have hyperdoc running on windows.
but it requires the Xming program
and i haven't had time to document and package it.

t



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C Y <smustudent1@yahoo.com> writes:

| --- Bill Page <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> wrote:
| 
| > > Indeed, an ASDF based version of Axiom will completely enclose
| > > the whole issue into a proper lisp build framework and the
| > > whole build process can disappear.
| > 
| > I simply don't believe this statement at all.
| 
| Other issues aside Bill, asdf is in fact quite powerful.
| 
| Obviously the build process won't disappear entirely - what Tim means
| is that the dependence of Axiom's build on machinery external to the
| lisp environment will disappear.  This is probably true to a fairly
| large extent, and I think will be a Good Thing for portability,
| simplicity, etc.

Many of the problems I've seen so far with the build process are bugs
in the Makefiles.  

-- Gaby



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On October 29, 2006 9:19 PM Tim Daly wrote:
> 
> I believe you're not ready to hear my answer. Lets try
> experience...
> 
> Implement your suggestion in your own branch and we can 
> experiment with it.

There's not much to do, just remove the 'tar xf' and check-in
the sources.

> If the experiment hints that it is a success then we'll merge 
> it into silver.
> 
> Clearly this will raise a lot of issues, such as how you
> plan to track changes in GCL, 

What issues? I don't plan to change GCL. If necessary we can
submit patches to Camm.

> how you plan to handle partial versions where Camm has 
> applied an axiom fix but not updated the version number, 
> how you plan to allow for downgrading versions (ala the 
> fedora5 issue),

Wait for a release of GCL that works.
 
> how axiom "hot fixes" will be handled before and after GCL 
> upstream changes
> etc...
>

Don't "hot fix" in the Axiom Gold release.
 
> All of these have current answers. 
> 
> You can follow the same scheme you use to handle distribution
> of the Zope/Plone stuff to Doyen. I'm not sure how you do it.

??? Zope/Plone stuff is in a darcs archive. Actually the only
thing in the archive is a modified version of ZWiki and a
modified version of LatexWiki.

> 
> Does Alfredo apt-get Zope/Plone with your upstream changes?

No. There are no upstream changes to Zope. Plone is not used
with Doyen but there are also no upstream changes to Plone.

> Does Alfredo get a vanilla Zope/Plone CVS and then apply your 
> changes?

Yes, Alfredo uses vanilla Zope which must be installed according
to the standard procedures for that linux distribution. For
example on the axiom.risc server which is running Debian, we
just need apt-get install zope.
 
> Do you maintain a Zope/Plone tarball and apply your changes? 

No.

> Do you maintain your own Zope/Plone CVS with your local changes? 

Yes, well actually only ZWiki and LatexWiki are in the MathAction
darcs repository. These are Zope application packages, aka.
"products" that can be installed under Zope.

> How do you get your changes pushed upstream? 

On rare occasions I have submitted patches to Simon, the ZWiki
developer. But recently Simon has pulled the complete modified
versions of ZWiki and LatexWiki from the MathAction repository
and merged them with the main ZWiki upstream. I count this as
*success*. I don't have to maintain this stuff any more.

> What if they aren't accepted?

No big deal. Mostly I am concerned about the other direction.
There many improvements to ZWiki that we are not in the version
we are using now because of the difficulty of merging upstream
changes with local changes. But since Simon has done us the
courtesy of merging up, then the only thing I need to do (real
soon now) is to move the Axiom Wiki and Axiom Portal over to
Simon's new version.

Well, actually there are already some changes since Simon did
the merge (e.g. Sage support), so I will have to submit these
as patchs to Simon.

> Suppose Doyen uses Fedora6 and Zope/Plone doesn't work. What 
> happens now?
>

The Zope/Plone developers would surely be well motivated to make
it work since Fedora is a major linux distribution. If necessary
we can help them make it work.
 
> Since you distribute the wiki then whatever your scheme is you
> can try to set up axiom in the same way and we can experiment
> with it.
> 

It is not my plan to distribute the wiki software. I am glad that
the developer of ZWiki has opted to include the LatexWiki with
MathAction (Axiom interface) extensions as part ZWiki.

Regards.
Bill Page.





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> > I believe you're not ready to hear my answer. Lets try
> > experience...
> > 
> > Implement your suggestion in your own branch and we can 
> > experiment with it.
> 
> There's not much to do, just remove the 'tar xf' and check-in
> the sources.

ok. let me know when I can pull your branch.

t



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Gaby,

This hardly seems to deserve it's own branch, it you agree
I can check-in this change to build-improvements. Precisely
what I proposed to do is:

1) Remove the 'tar xf' for zips/gcl-2.6.8pre from the Makefile
2) cvs co -r gcl-2.6.8pre into src/lsp
3) Verify the build.
4) add src/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/* into the repository (omit .cvs?)
5) commit the works.

Ok?

I am uncertain as to whether to include the .cvs files in the
gcl check-in. Doing so might permit a simple optional 'cvs update'
but would increase the size of the check-in. What do you think?

Regards,
Bill Page.

On October 30, 2006 11:02 AM Tim Daly wrote:
> 
> > > I believe you're not ready to hear my answer. Lets try
> > > experience...
> > > 
> > > Implement your suggestion in your own branch and we can 
> > > experiment with it.
> > 
> > There's not much to do, just remove the 'tar xf' and check-in
> > the sources.
> 
> ok. let me know when I can pull your branch.
> 





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Bill,

I don't think you should put it in build-improvements.
It is an independent issue and it will only complicate
the merge of the build-improvements branch. Branches
are trivial to make.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that YOU
care about this issue and I think it's just a 
distraction from doing things like trying to merge
Martin's algebra or merging the Windows branch.

But you care. So set up a branch, make sure it 
works, and then you can take the lead in maintaining
the GCL branch.

Tim



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"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

| Gaby,
| 
| This hardly seems to deserve it's own branch,

I agree.

| it you agree
| I can check-in this change to build-improvements. Precisely
| what I proposed to do is:
| 
| 1) Remove the 'tar xf' for zips/gcl-2.6.8pre from the Makefile
| 2) cvs co -r gcl-2.6.8pre into src/lsp
| 3) Verify the build.
| 4) add src/lsp/gcl-2.6.8pre/* into the repository (omit .cvs?)
| 5) commit the works.
| 
| Ok?

GCL does not support out-of-source build (yet).  So, somewhere in
lsp/, what you can do is test for $(srcdir) != $(builddir) and copy
$(top_srcdir)/tools/$(GCLVERSION) over to the corresponding builddir.

Since GCL is not part of Axiom, I would rather see it NOT in src/.
I would prefer to see in a new directory tools/ sibling to src/.
The same holds for noweb.  
Of course, we would need a documentation note saying nobody should
ever try to modify the source codes there.

| I am uncertain as to whether to include the .cvs files in the
| gcl check-in. Doing so might permit a simple optional 'cvs update'
| but would increase the size of the check-in. What do you think?

The CVS administrative files shoult not be included.  Just do
something like

   mkdir tools && cd tools
   cvs -d :pserver:anonymous@cvs.sv.gnu.org:/sources/gcl -z9 export -Dtoday -d gcl-2.6.8pre -r Version_2_6_8pre gcl
   svk add gcl-2.6.8pre


Tim --

  Have you tried build-improvements on FC5?


-- Gaby



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Camm,

Hopefully you can read this on the Axiom mailing list.
I can't CC you directly anymore. Web mail directly to
you is being bounced because mail from 77.X.X.X is blocked
by a spam mailing list. I've complained but they said there
is nothing they can do (even though they maintain the list).

Tim



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	Update	torecentGCL-2.6.8pre CVS
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On Mon, 2006-10-30 at 18:24 +0100, Gabriel Dos Reis wrote:

> 
> Tim --
> 
>   Have you tried build-improvements on FC5?
> 
> 
> -- Gaby
> 
This is just another data point.  I have built the build-improvements
branch on FC5 and CentOS 4 (which uses RHEL4 sources).  The FC5 system
has SELinux disabled while the CentOS system uses the targeted policy
for SELinux.

I have not exercised either build extensively but the CentOS version
successfully passed the test part of the build.

-- 
Arthur Dickinson <adickinson@cfl.rr.com>




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Greetings!  My understanding:

1) Bill's helpful emacs site lisp patch to configure.in
2) finish tracing down the plt issue on macosx
3) figure out the error in fc6.

This is complete, right?  1) is waiting on me.  I think the latest
email on 2 and 3 went out from me to Bill and Tim resp. with requested
gdb commands therein.  I only write this as I'm noticing a lot more
traffic on axiom-developer on the web than I am getting locally.
Please do me the favor of cc'ing me directly until we can work out our
mailer problems.

Take care,
-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: Bug#328480: axiom: Still seems to be a problem
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-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Hi Camm,

Camm Maguire wrote:
> Greetings!
> 
> OK, just double checked with the latest 20050901-7, and I cannot
> reproduce.  I think this must be come xserver/configuration problem.

Possible, I suppose it might have coincided with an xorg upgrade;
however, the issue is exactly as identified in previous bug report -
it's also exactly replicated on several machines on which I have axiom,
and it all worked in the past.

I can't now test Tim's num-lock theory for the reasons stated below.
However, I was able to change the cell of focus with the mouse, but no
keys produced any output, on the keypad or otherwise.

> There is an axiom wiki for frequently encountered problems.  Can you
> identify anything there with something similar?  Can you try asking at
> <axiom-developer@nongnu.org>?

I've just had a look through it. I don't see anything yet.

>> I'm still experiencing this bug in version 20050901-6.
>> As before no input in the areas in hyperdoc is accepted.

Unfortunately, in 20050901-7 I'm having a different problem.

If I go to reference -> search in the hyperdoc system, I *can* enter text.

However, if I for example go to

Settings -> Settings

or

Basic Commands -> Calculus -> Differentiate

an hourglass appears, never dismisses and

(1) ->
(1) ->
   >> System error:
   Unexpected end of #<string-input stream from "                ...">.

(1) ->

appears in the console (which is still active). Again, this happens on
two machines I have dist-upgraded. Num-lock makes no difference for this
at least.

I'll keep searching the wiki. Thanks for the help.

CT.
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Subject: RE: [Axiom-developer] [build-improvements] Update
	torecentGCL-2.6.8pre CVS
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On October 30, 2006 12:03 PM Tim Daly wrote:
> ... 
> But you care. So set up a branch, make sure it works,
> and then you can take the lead in maintaining the GCL
> branch.
> 

Tim, as I have said many times: I have no intention of
maintaining a GCL branch.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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Fedora Core 6 builds and runs Axiom successfully if you set the
AXIOM variable with a trailing 'fedora5' thus:

cd axiom
export AXIOM=`pwd`/mnt/fedora5
export PATH=$AXIOM/bin:$PATH
make



I'll update the configure script to detect this platform.

t



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] RE: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Camm,

Here is the gdb output for the MAC OSX plt issue.

I think the result is fairly definitive. See this section below:

Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=3D0xbffaade0, v2=3D0x123ad4) at plt.c:25
25	  const Plt *p1=3Dv1,*p2=3Dv2;
(gdb) n
27	  return strcmp(stn(p1->n),stn(p2->n));
(gdb) p p2->n
$8 =3D 0x11574c "__srget"
(gdb) p p1->n
$9 =3D 0x5742d1 "___srget"
(gdb) n
29	}
(gdb) n
0x9000f8c8 in bsearch ()
(gdb) n
Single stepping until exit from function bsearch,=20
which has no line number information.
my_plt (s=3D0x5742d1 "___srget", v=3D0xbffff668) at plt.c:185
185	  return -1;
(gdb) n
187	}

--------

It seems as if pltcomp is not respecting the leading underscore
for the comparison.

Can you suggest fix?

Regards,
Bill Page.

=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D PuTTY log 2006.10.30 =
21:24:00
=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D~=3D
ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport $ gdb raw_pre_gcl
GNU gdb 5.3-20021014 (Apple version gdb-250) (Sat Dec  7 02:14:27 GMT =
2002)
Copyright 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you =
are
welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain
conditions.
Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for =
details.
This GDB was configured as "powerpc-apple-macos10".
Reading symbols for shared libraries .. done
(gdb) b sfasli.c:65
Breakpoint 1 at 0xb1b54: file sfasli.c, line 65.
(gdb) r ./
Starting program:
/private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport=
/ra
w_pre_gcl ./
[Switching to process 17648 thread 0xb03]
Reading symbols for shared libraries . done
Reading symbols for shared libraries .. done
DBEGIN:          0x122000
mach_mapstart:   0x548000
heap_end:        0x548000
core_end:        0x548000
mach_brkpt:      0x548000
mach_maplimit: 0x20122000
--- List of All Regions ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000     0x1000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
    0x2000    0xaf000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
   0xb1000     0x1000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
   0xb2000    0x70000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x122000     0x6000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x128000   0x420000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x548000   0x2dd000 r    rwx  (no zone)
  0x825000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
  0x865000    0x20000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
--- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
   address       size prot maxp zone_name
         0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
    0x1000   0x121000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
  0x122000   0x426000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
  0x548000   0x2dd000 r    rwx  (no zone)
  0x825000    0x60000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
--- Header Information ---
Magic      =3D 0xfeedface
CPUType    =3D 18
CPUSubType =3D 0
FileType   =3D 0x2
NCmds      =3D 10
SizeOfCmds =3D 1620
Flags      =3D 0x00000085
Highest address of load commands in input file:     0x825000
Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0xb18
--- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
 0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
 1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x121000
                               __text               0x1b18   0x10a410
                               __picsymbol_stub   0x10bf28     0x18e4
                               __symbol_stub      0x10d80c          0
                               __cstring          0x10d80c    0x12714
                               __literal4         0x11ff20       0x18
                               __literal8         0x11ff38       0xc8
                               __const            0x120000     0x1f9c
                               __eh_frame         0x121f9c       0x60
 2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x122000   0x426000
                               __data             0x122000     0x25b0
                               __la_symbol_ptr    0x1245b0      0x2c4
                               __nl_symbol_ptr    0x124874      0x8fc
                               __dyld             0x125170       0x1c
                               __const            0x12518c     0x2748
                               __bss              0x1278d8     0x8f28
                               __common           0x130800   0x416d68
 3 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT         0x548000   0x2dd000
 4 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
 5 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
 6 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
 7 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
 8 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
 9 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
--- Load Commands written to Output File ---
Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:         =
 0)
Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x121000 (sz:   =
0x121000)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x121000 -   0x127000 (sz:     =
0x6000)
        section __data           at   0x121000 -   0x1235b0 (sz:     =
0x25b0)
        section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1235b0 -   0x123874 (sz:      =
0x2c4)
        section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x123874 -   0x124170 (sz:      =
0x8fc)
        section __dyld           at   0x124170 -   0x12418c (sz:       =
0x1c)
        section __const          at   0x12418c -   0x1268d4 (sz:     =
0x2748)
        section __bss            at   0x1268d8 -   0x12f800 (sz:     =
0x8f28)
        section __common         at   0x12f800 -   0x546568 (sz:   =
0x416d68)
Writing segment __DATA           at   0x547000 -   0x547000 (sz:         =
 0)
Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at   0x547000 -   0x823df4 (sz:   =
0x2dcdf4)
Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
Fixed up 17/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
1068 unused bytes follow Mach-O header

Program received signal SIGTRAP, Trace/breakpoint trap.
0x8fe19090 in __dyld__dyld_start ()
(gdb) cond 1 (int) strstr(q[u]->name,"srget")
(gdb) c
Continuing.
GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
Building symbol table for
/private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport=
/ra
w_pre_gcl.tmp ..

Breakpoint 1, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:65
65	    if (strncmp(q[u]->section->name,"*UND*",5) && !(q[u]->flags &
BSF_WEAK))
(gdb) n
68	    if ((c=3D(char *)strstr(q[u]->name,"@@"))) {
(gdb) n
73	    } else if=20
(gdb) n
78	    if (h->type!=3Dbfd_link_hash_defined) {
(gdb) n
79	      if (!q[u]->section)
(gdb) n
81	      if (!my_plt(q[u]->name,&pa)) {
(gdb) s
my_plt (s=3D0x5742d1 "___srget", v=3D0xbffff668) at plt.c:167
167	  Plt *p=3Dmplt,*pe=3Dp+sizeof(mplt)/sizeof(*mplt),tp;
(gdb) n
170	  if (sSAplt_tableA->s.s_dbind &&=20
(gdb) p mplt
$1 =3D {{
    n =3D 0x11574c "__srget",=20
    ad =3D 2415981216
  }, {
    n =3D 0x115754 "__swbuf",=20
    ad =3D 2416038784
  }, {
    n =3D 0x11575c "acos",=20
    ad =3D 2416205440
  }, {
    n =3D 0x115764 "acosh",=20
    ad =3D 2416569920
  }, {
    n =3D 0x11576c "asin",=20
    ad =3D 2416570304
  }, {
    n =3D 0x115774 "asinh",=20
    ad =3D 2416569588
  }, {
    n =3D 0x11577c "atan",=20
    ad =3D 2416568404
  }, {
    n =3D 0x115784 "atanh",=20
    ad =3D 2416569296
  }, {
    n =3D 0x11578c "cos",=20
    ad =3D 2416185248
  }, {
    n =3D 0x115790 "cosh",=20
    ad =3D 2416590880
  }, {
    n =3D 0x115798 "exp",=20
    ad =3D 2416186144
  }, {
    n =3D 0x11579c "log",=20
    ad =3D 2416181504
  }, {
    n =3D 0x1157a0 "setjmp",=20
    ad =3D 2416214272
  }, {
    n =3D 0x1157a8 "sin",=20
    ad =3D 2416179488
  }, {
    n =3D 0x1157ac "sinh",=20
    ad =3D 2416590620
  }, {
    n =3D 0x1157b4 "tan",=20
    ad =3D 2416183744
  }, {
    n =3D 0x1157b8 "tanh",=20
    ad =3D 2416591016
  }}
(gdb) n
179	  tp.n=3Ds;
(gdb) b pltcomp
Breakpoint 2 at 0xbe75c: file plt.c, line 25.
(gdb) n
180	  if ((p=3Dbsearch(&tp,p,pe-p,sizeof(*p),pltcomp))) {
(gdb) n

Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=3D0xbffaade0, v2=3D0x123b14) at plt.c:25
25	  const Plt *p1=3Dv1,*p2=3Dv2;
(gdb) n
27	  return strcmp(stn(p1->n),stn(p2->n));
(gdb) p p1->n
$2 =3D 0x5742d1 "___srget"
(gdb) p p2->n
$3 =3D 0x11578c "cos"
(gdb) n
29	}
(gdb) n
0x9000f8c8 in bsearch ()
(gdb) n
Single stepping until exit from function bsearch,=20
which has no line number information.

Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=3D0xbffaade0, v2=3D0x123af4) at plt.c:25
25	  const Plt *p1=3Dv1,*p2=3Dv2;
(gdb) n
27	  return strcmp(stn(p1->n),stn(p2->n));
(gdb) p p1->n
$5 =3D 0x5742d1 "___srget"
(gdb) n
29	}
(gdb) n
0x9000f8c8 in bsearch ()
(gdb) n
Single stepping until exit from function bsearch,=20
which has no line number information.

Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=3D0xbffaade0, v2=3D0x123ae4) at plt.c:25
25	  const Plt *p1=3Dv1,*p2=3Dv2;
(gdb) p p2->n
$6 =3D 0x11576c "asin"
(gdb) n
27	  return strcmp(stn(p1->n),stn(p2->n));
(gdb) n
29	}
(gdb) n
0x9000f8c8 in bsearch ()
(gdb) n
Single stepping until exit from function bsearch,=20
which has no line number information.

Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=3D0xbffaade0, v2=3D0x123adc) at plt.c:25
25	  const Plt *p1=3Dv1,*p2=3Dv2;
(gdb) n
27	  return strcmp(stn(p1->n),stn(p2->n));
(gdb) p p2->n
$7 =3D 0x115754 "__swbuf"
(gdb) n
29	}
(gdb) n
0x9000f8c8 in bsearch ()
(gdb) n
Single stepping until exit from function bsearch,=20
which has no line number information.

Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=3D0xbffaade0, v2=3D0x123ad4) at plt.c:25
25	  const Plt *p1=3Dv1,*p2=3Dv2;
(gdb) n
27	  return strcmp(stn(p1->n),stn(p2->n));
(gdb) p p2->n
$8 =3D 0x11574c "__srget"
(gdb) p p1->n
$9 =3D 0x5742d1 "___srget"
(gdb) n
29	}
(gdb) n
0x9000f8c8 in bsearch ()
(gdb) n
Single stepping until exit from function bsearch,=20
which has no line number information.
my_plt (s=3D0x5742d1 "___srget", v=3D0xbffff668) at plt.c:185
185	  return -1;
(gdb) n
187	}
(gdb) n
build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:88
88	      if (q[u]->value) {
(gdb) b sfasli.c:89
Breakpoint 3 at 0xb1e28: file sfasli.c, line 89.
(gdb) c
Continuing.

Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=3D0xbffaade0, v2=3D0x123b14) at plt.c:25
25	  const Plt *p1=3Dv1,*p2=3Dv2;
(gdb) cl
Deleted breakpoint 2=20
(gdb) c
Continuing.

Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
89		h->type=3Dbfd_link_hash_defined;
(gdb) p q[u]->name
$10 =3D 0x575f53 "_acos"
(gdb) c
Continuing.

Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
89		h->type=3Dbfd_link_hash_defined;
(gdb) p q[u]->name
$11 =3D 0x575f59 "_acosh"
(gdb) c
Continuing.

Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
89		h->type=3Dbfd_link_hash_defined;
(gdb) c=08p q[u]->name
$12 =3D 0x575f60 "_asin"
(gdb) p q[u]->name
(gdb) c=1B[K
Continuing.

Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
89		h->type=3Dbfd_link_hash_defined;
(gdb) c=08p q[u]->name
$13 =3D 0x575f66 "_asinh"
(gdb) p q[u]->name
(gdb) c=1B[K
Continuing.

Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
89		h->type=3Dbfd_link_hash_defined;
(gdb) c=08p q[u]->name
$14 =3D 0x575f6d "_atan"
(gdb) p q[u]->name
(gdb) c=1B[K
Continuing.

Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
89		h->type=3Dbfd_link_hash_defined;
(gdb) c=08p q[u]->name
$15 =3D 0x575f73 "_atanh"
(gdb) p q[u]->name
(gdb) c=1B[K
Continuing.

Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
89		h->type=3Dbfd_link_hash_defined;
(gdb) c=08p q[u]->name
$16 =3D 0x575f83 "_cos"
(gdb)=20

-----------

> -----Original Message-----
> From: Camm Maguire [mailto:camm@enhanced.com]=20
> Sent: October 27, 2006 11:05 AM
> To: bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca
> Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org; gcl-devel@gnu.org
> Subject: Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
>=20
>=20
> Greetings!
>=20
> "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:
>=20
> > Camm,
> >=20
> > On Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:01 PM you asked:
> > >=20
> > > Greetings!  Just wondering if this is the last axiom issue with
> > > 2.6.8pre outstanding.  If not, what are the others?  If=20
> more testing
> > > time is needed to answer this, how much more?
> > >
> >=20
> > Here is the debugging output you asked for in your previous email.
> >=20
> > On Thursday, October 26, 2006 4:41 PM you wrote:
> > > ...=20
> > > Please verify this by stepping through with n and this point.  In
> > > fact, if you can step from this point to the bottom of=20
> this for loop
> > > iteration, and then
> > >=20
> > > (gdb) p=20
> > > *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FALSE,M
> > Y_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_TRUE)
> > >=20
> > > that would be most helpful. =20
> > >=20
> >=20
> > --------=20
> >=20
> > (gdb) cond 1 (int) strstr(q[u]->name,"srget")
> > (gdb) c
> > Continuing.
> > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> > Building symbol table for
> >=20
> /private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8p
> re/unixpor
> > t/raw_pre_gcl.tmp ..
> >=20
> > Breakpoint 1, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:65
> > 65          if (strncmp(q[u]->section->name,"*UND*",5) &&=20
> !(q[u]->flags
> > & BSF_WEAK))
> > (gdb) p q[u]->name
> > $1 =3D 0x5742d1 "___srget"
> > (gdb) p q[u]->section->name
> > $2 =3D 0x114e74 "*UND*"
> > (gdb) p q[u]->flags
> > $3 =3D 2
> > (gdb) n
> > 68          if ((c=3D(char *)strstr(q[u]->name,"@@"))) {
> > (gdb) n
> > 73          } else if
> > (gdb) n
> > 78          if (h->type!=3Dbfd_link_hash_defined) {
> > (gdb) n
> > 79            if (!q[u]->section)
> > (gdb) n
> > 81            if (!my_plt(q[u]->name,&pa)) {
> > (gdb) n
> > 88            if (q[u]->value) {
> > (gdb) n
> > 95          if (c) {
> > (gdb) p
> >=20
> *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FALSE,M
> Y_BFD_FALS
> > E,MY_BFD_TRUE)
> > No symbol "MY_BFD_FALSE" in current context.
> > (gdb) p=20
> *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,0,0,MY_BFD_TRUE)
> > No symbol "MY_BFD_TRUE" in current context.
> > (gdb) p *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,0,0,1)
> > $4 =3D {
> >   root =3D {
> >     next =3D 0x0,
> >     string =3D 0x76db28 "___srget",
> >     hash =3D 163640344
> >   },
> >   type =3D bfd_link_hash_undefined,
> >   u =3D {
> >     undef =3D {
> >       next =3D 0x76db34,
> >       abfd =3D 0x54a2f0,
> >       weak =3D 0x0
> >     },
> >     def =3D {
> >       next =3D 0x76db34,
> >       section =3D 0x54a2f0,
> >       value =3D 0
> >     },
> >     i =3D {
> >       next =3D 0x76db34,
> >       link =3D 0x54a2f0,
> >       warning =3D 0x0
> >     },
> >     c =3D {
> >       next =3D 0x76db34,
> >       p =3D 0x54a2f0,
> >       size =3D 0
> >     }
> >   }
> > }
>=20
> Perfect!  Here is the problem -- the symbol has no value, to the code
> never defines its address
>=20
> > 88            if (q[u]->value) {
>=20
> >   type =3D bfd_link_hash_undefined,
>=20
> It would be helpful if you could break at line 89, and make sure that
> other symbols are defined through their symbol value.  Preferably,
> others in plt.h.
>=20
> But before this, please step into my_plt with
>=20
> (gdb) s
>=20
> and step through the code.
>=20
> This is also of interest therein:
>=20
> (gdb) p mplt
>=20
> and, before executing line 180:
>=20
> (gdb) b pltcomp
>=20
> then at each break into pltcomp, try to see why the named symbol is
> not found.
>=20
> BTW, is this macosx intel?  If not, has anyone tried this?
>=20
> Take care,
>=20
> > (gdb) n
> > 58        for (u=3D0;u<v;u++) {
> > (gdb)
> >=20
> > ------------
> >=20
> > I guess it didn't know MY_BFD_FALSE and MY_BFD_TRUE but I
> > took a wild guess at what these symbols might be. Is this
> > output useful to you?
> >=20
> > Regards,
> > Bill Page.
> >=20
> >=20
> >=20
>=20
> --=20
> Camm Maguire			     		=09
> camm@enhanced.com
> =
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=
=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D
> "The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --=20
>  Baha'u'llah
>=20
>=20





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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| Fedora Core 6 builds and runs Axiom successfully if you set the
| AXIOM variable with a trailing 'fedora5' thus:
| 
| cd axiom
| export AXIOM=`pwd`/mnt/fedora5
| export PATH=$AXIOM/bin:$PATH
| make
| 
| 
| 
| I'll update the configure script to detect this platform.

Tim --

  It is probably OK to "share" make rules that way, but; it is highly
misleading to name builds after platform names you currently do.  That
accounts for confusion.   Furthermore, I would urge you to stop using 
${XLIB}/Xpm.a as I explained previously.  Many of the working stanzas
have been artificially cloned for no logically coherent reasons.

-- Gaby



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>   It is probably OK to "share" make rules that way, but; it is highly
> misleading to name builds after platform names you currently do.  That
> accounts for confusion.   Furthermore, I would urge you to stop using 
> ${XLIB}/Xpm.a as I explained previously.  Many of the working stanzas
> have been artificially cloned for no logically coherent reasons.

i agree about the naming convention.
the "-l Xpm" doesn't seem to work on other linux boxes.
i'll investigate further.

t



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] [build-improvements] fix thinko in trace.boot
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Hi,

  This patchlet fixes a typo in trace.boot -- caught by bootsys.
A string literal cannot span two lines or more with line continuation
characters.

-- Gaby

2006-10-30  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>

	* trace.boot.pamphlet (ptimers): Fix string literals that
	accidently spreads over two lines.

*** trace.boot.pamphlet	(revision 15942)
--- trace.boot.pamphlet	(local)
*************** ptimers() ==
*** 251,258 ****
    null _/TIMERLIST => sayBrightly '"   no functions are timed"
    for timer in _/TIMERLIST repeat
      sayBrightly ["  ",:bright timer,'_:,'" ",
!       EVAL(INTERN STRCONC(timer,'"_,TIMER")) / float $timerTicksPerSecond,'" sec
!    ."]
  
  pspacers() ==
    null _/SPACELIST => sayBrightly '"   no functions have space monitored"
--- 251,257 ----
    null _/TIMERLIST => sayBrightly '"   no functions are timed"
    for timer in _/TIMERLIST repeat
      sayBrightly ["  ",:bright timer,'_:,'" ",
!       EVAL(INTERN STRCONC(timer,'"_,TIMER")) / float $timerTicksPerSecond,'" sec."]
  
  pspacers() ==
    null _/SPACELIST => sayBrightly '"   no functions have space monitored"



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root <daly@axiom-developer.org> writes:

| the "-l Xpm" doesn't seem to work on other linux boxes.

I'm curious about which other linux boxes.

[ What I described is implemented on build-improvements. ]

-- Gaby



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Subject: [Axiom-developer] [build-improvements] Update Boot keywords table
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This patch updates the keyword table in Makefile, to match the actual
implementation.  In particular, the keywords CASE, OF, STRUCTURE, and
QUOTE were missing.  The other hunk just makes the spelling match the
actual implementation.

-- Gaby

2006-10-31  Gabriel Dos Reis  <gdr@cs.tamu.edu>

	* Makefile.pamphlet (\subsubsection{Keywords}): Sync documentation
	and implementation.

*** Makefile.pamphlet	(revision 15943)
--- Makefile.pamphlet	(local)
*************** name for use in the description of the s
*** 207,212 ****
--- 207,213 ----
   
              and          AND
              by           BY
+             case         CASE
              cross        CROSS
              else         ELSE
              for          FOR
*************** name for use in the description of the s
*** 214,222 ****
--- 215,225 ----
              in           IN
              is           IS
              isnt         ISNT
+             of           OF
              or           OR
              repeat       REPEAT
              return       RETURN
+             structure    STRUCTURE
              then         THEN
              until        UNTIL
              where        WHERE
*************** name for use in the description of the s
*** 234,256 ****
              >            GT
              <=           LE
              >=           GE
!             =            EQ
              ^            NOT
              ^=           NE
              ..           SEG
!             #            SIZE
              =>           EXIT
!             :=           BECOMES
              ==           DEF
              ==>          MDEF
              (            OPAREN
              )            CPAREN
-             [            OBRACK
              (|           OBRACK
-             ]            CBRACK
              |)           CBRACK
!              |           BAR
              suchthat     BAR
  \end{verbatim}  
   
  \subsubsection{Primary}
--- 237,260 ----
              >            GT
              <=           LE
              >=           GE
!             =            SHOEEQ
              ^            NOT
              ^=           NE
              ..           SEG
!             #            LENGHT
              =>           EXIT
!             :=           BEC
              ==           DEF
              ==>          MDEF
              (            OPAREN
              )            CPAREN
              (|           OBRACK
              |)           CBRACK
!             [            OBRACK
!             ]            CBRACK
              suchthat     BAR
+             '            QUOTE
+             |            BAR
  \end{verbatim}  
   
  \subsubsection{Primary}



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To: "Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca>
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From: Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com>
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Subject: [Axiom-developer] Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
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Greetings, and thanks!  OK, please try it now, I think it should be
fixed.  Please let me know if problems persist.

Take care,

"Bill Page" <bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca> writes:

> Camm,
> 
> Here is the gdb output for the MAC OSX plt issue.
> 
> I think the result is fairly definitive. See this section below:
> 
> Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=0xbffaade0, v2=0x123ad4) at plt.c:25
> 25	  const Plt *p1=v1,*p2=v2;
> (gdb) n
> 27	  return strcmp(stn(p1->n),stn(p2->n));
> (gdb) p p2->n
> $8 = 0x11574c "__srget"
> (gdb) p p1->n
> $9 = 0x5742d1 "___srget"
> (gdb) n
> 29	}
> (gdb) n
> 0x9000f8c8 in bsearch ()
> (gdb) n
> Single stepping until exit from function bsearch, 
> which has no line number information.
> my_plt (s=0x5742d1 "___srget", v=0xbffff668) at plt.c:185
> 185	  return -1;
> (gdb) n
> 187	}
> 
> --------
> 
> It seems as if pltcomp is not respecting the leading underscore
> for the comparison.
> 
> Can you suggest fix?
> 
> Regards,
> Bill Page.
> 
> =~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~= PuTTY log 2006.10.30 21:24:00
> =~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=~=
> ppc-osx3:~/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport $ gdb raw_pre_gcl
> GNU gdb 5.3-20021014 (Apple version gdb-250) (Sat Dec  7 02:14:27 GMT 2002)
> Copyright 2002 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
> GDB is free software, covered by the GNU General Public License, and you are
> welcome to change it and/or distribute copies of it under certain
> conditions.
> Type "show copying" to see the conditions.
> There is absolutely no warranty for GDB.  Type "show warranty" for details.
> This GDB was configured as "powerpc-apple-macos10".
> Reading symbols for shared libraries .. done
> (gdb) b sfasli.c:65
> Breakpoint 1 at 0xb1b54: file sfasli.c, line 65.
> (gdb) r ./
> Starting program:
> /private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport/ra
> w_pre_gcl ./
> [Switching to process 17648 thread 0xb03]
> Reading symbols for shared libraries . done
> Reading symbols for shared libraries .. done
> DBEGIN:          0x122000
> mach_mapstart:   0x548000
> heap_end:        0x548000
> core_end:        0x548000
> mach_brkpt:      0x548000
> mach_maplimit: 0x20122000
> --- List of All Regions ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000     0x1000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>     0x2000    0xaf000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>    0xb1000     0x1000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>    0xb2000    0x70000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x122000     0x6000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x128000   0x420000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x548000   0x2dd000 r    rwx  (no zone)
>   0x825000    0x40000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
>   0x865000    0x20000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
> --- List of Regions to be Dumped ---
>    address       size prot maxp zone_name
>          0     0x1000 none none (no zone)
>     0x1000   0x121000 r x  rwx  (no zone)
>   0x122000   0x426000 rw   rwx  (no zone)
>   0x548000   0x2dd000 r    rwx  (no zone)
>   0x825000    0x60000 rw   rwx  DefaultMallocZone
> --- Header Information ---
> Magic      = 0xfeedface
> CPUType    = 18
> CPUSubType = 0
> FileType   = 0x2
> NCmds      = 10
> SizeOfCmds = 1620
> Flags      = 0x00000085
> Highest address of load commands in input file:     0x825000
> Lowest offset of all sections in __TEXT segment:      0xb18
> --- List of Load Commands in Input File ---
> no cmd                 cmdsize name                address       size
>  0 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __PAGEZERO                0     0x1000
>  1 LC_SEGMENT            0x258 __TEXT               0x1000   0x121000
>                                __text               0x1b18   0x10a410
>                                __picsymbol_stub   0x10bf28     0x18e4
>                                __symbol_stub      0x10d80c          0
>                                __cstring          0x10d80c    0x12714
>                                __literal4         0x11ff20       0x18
>                                __literal8         0x11ff38       0xc8
>                                __const            0x120000     0x1f9c
>                                __eh_frame         0x121f9c       0x60
>  2 LC_SEGMENT            0x214 __DATA             0x122000   0x426000
>                                __data             0x122000     0x25b0
>                                __la_symbol_ptr    0x1245b0      0x2c4
>                                __nl_symbol_ptr    0x124874      0x8fc
>                                __dyld             0x125170       0x1c
>                                __const            0x12518c     0x2748
>                                __bss              0x1278d8     0x8f28
>                                __common           0x130800   0x416d68
>  3 LC_SEGMENT             0x38 __LINKEDIT         0x548000   0x2dd000
>  4 LC_LOAD_DYLINKER       0x1c
>  5 LC_LOAD_DYLIB          0x34
>  6 LC_SYMTAB              0x18
>  7 LC_DYSYMTAB            0x50
>  8 LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS      0x10
>  9 LC_UNIXTHREAD          0xb0
> --- Load Commands written to Output File ---
> Writing segment __PAGEZERO       at          0 -          0 (sz:          0)
> Writing segment __TEXT           at          0 -   0x121000 (sz:   0x121000)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x121000 -   0x127000 (sz:     0x6000)
>         section __data           at   0x121000 -   0x1235b0 (sz:     0x25b0)
>         section __la_symbol_ptr  at   0x1235b0 -   0x123874 (sz:      0x2c4)
>         section __nl_symbol_ptr  at   0x123874 -   0x124170 (sz:      0x8fc)
>         section __dyld           at   0x124170 -   0x12418c (sz:       0x1c)
>         section __const          at   0x12418c -   0x1268d4 (sz:     0x2748)
>         section __bss            at   0x1268d8 -   0x12f800 (sz:     0x8f28)
>         section __common         at   0x12f800 -   0x546568 (sz:   0x416d68)
> Writing segment __DATA           at   0x547000 -   0x547000 (sz:          0)
> Writing segment __LINKEDIT       at   0x547000 -   0x823df4 (sz:   0x2dcdf4)
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLINKER  command
> Writing LC_LOAD_DYLIB     command
> Writing LC_SYMTAB         command
> Fixed up 17/17 external relocation entries in data segment.
> Writing LC_DYSYMTAB       command
> Writing LC_TWOLEVEL_HINTS command
> Writing LC_UNIXTHREAD     command
> 1068 unused bytes follow Mach-O header
> 
> Program received signal SIGTRAP, Trace/breakpoint trap.
> 0x8fe19090 in __dyld__dyld_start ()
> (gdb) cond 1 (int) strstr(q[u]->name,"srget")
> (gdb) c
> Continuing.
> GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> Building symbol table for
> /private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8pre/unixport/ra
> w_pre_gcl.tmp ..
> 
> Breakpoint 1, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:65
> 65	    if (strncmp(q[u]->section->name,"*UND*",5) && !(q[u]->flags &
> BSF_WEAK))
> (gdb) n
> 68	    if ((c=(char *)strstr(q[u]->name,"@@"))) {
> (gdb) n
> 73	    } else if 
> (gdb) n
> 78	    if (h->type!=bfd_link_hash_defined) {
> (gdb) n
> 79	      if (!q[u]->section)
> (gdb) n
> 81	      if (!my_plt(q[u]->name,&pa)) {
> (gdb) s
> my_plt (s=0x5742d1 "___srget", v=0xbffff668) at plt.c:167
> 167	  Plt *p=mplt,*pe=p+sizeof(mplt)/sizeof(*mplt),tp;
> (gdb) n
> 170	  if (sSAplt_tableA->s.s_dbind && 
> (gdb) p mplt
> $1 = {{
>     n = 0x11574c "__srget", 
>     ad = 2415981216
>   }, {
>     n = 0x115754 "__swbuf", 
>     ad = 2416038784
>   }, {
>     n = 0x11575c "acos", 
>     ad = 2416205440
>   }, {
>     n = 0x115764 "acosh", 
>     ad = 2416569920
>   }, {
>     n = 0x11576c "asin", 
>     ad = 2416570304
>   }, {
>     n = 0x115774 "asinh", 
>     ad = 2416569588
>   }, {
>     n = 0x11577c "atan", 
>     ad = 2416568404
>   }, {
>     n = 0x115784 "atanh", 
>     ad = 2416569296
>   }, {
>     n = 0x11578c "cos", 
>     ad = 2416185248
>   }, {
>     n = 0x115790 "cosh", 
>     ad = 2416590880
>   }, {
>     n = 0x115798 "exp", 
>     ad = 2416186144
>   }, {
>     n = 0x11579c "log", 
>     ad = 2416181504
>   }, {
>     n = 0x1157a0 "setjmp", 
>     ad = 2416214272
>   }, {
>     n = 0x1157a8 "sin", 
>     ad = 2416179488
>   }, {
>     n = 0x1157ac "sinh", 
>     ad = 2416590620
>   }, {
>     n = 0x1157b4 "tan", 
>     ad = 2416183744
>   }, {
>     n = 0x1157b8 "tanh", 
>     ad = 2416591016
>   }}
> (gdb) n
> 179	  tp.n=s;
> (gdb) b pltcomp
> Breakpoint 2 at 0xbe75c: file plt.c, line 25.
> (gdb) n
> 180	  if ((p=bsearch(&tp,p,pe-p,sizeof(*p),pltcomp))) {
> (gdb) n
> 
> Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=0xbffaade0, v2=0x123b14) at plt.c:25
> 25	  const Plt *p1=v1,*p2=v2;
> (gdb) n
> 27	  return strcmp(stn(p1->n),stn(p2->n));
> (gdb) p p1->n
> $2 = 0x5742d1 "___srget"
> (gdb) p p2->n
> $3 = 0x11578c "cos"
> (gdb) n
> 29	}
> (gdb) n
> 0x9000f8c8 in bsearch ()
> (gdb) n
> Single stepping until exit from function bsearch, 
> which has no line number information.
> 
> Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=0xbffaade0, v2=0x123af4) at plt.c:25
> 25	  const Plt *p1=v1,*p2=v2;
> (gdb) n
> 27	  return strcmp(stn(p1->n),stn(p2->n));
> (gdb) p p1->n
> $5 = 0x5742d1 "___srget"
> (gdb) n
> 29	}
> (gdb) n
> 0x9000f8c8 in bsearch ()
> (gdb) n
> Single stepping until exit from function bsearch, 
> which has no line number information.
> 
> Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=0xbffaade0, v2=0x123ae4) at plt.c:25
> 25	  const Plt *p1=v1,*p2=v2;
> (gdb) p p2->n
> $6 = 0x11576c "asin"
> (gdb) n
> 27	  return strcmp(stn(p1->n),stn(p2->n));
> (gdb) n
> 29	}
> (gdb) n
> 0x9000f8c8 in bsearch ()
> (gdb) n
> Single stepping until exit from function bsearch, 
> which has no line number information.
> 
> Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=0xbffaade0, v2=0x123adc) at plt.c:25
> 25	  const Plt *p1=v1,*p2=v2;
> (gdb) n
> 27	  return strcmp(stn(p1->n),stn(p2->n));
> (gdb) p p2->n
> $7 = 0x115754 "__swbuf"
> (gdb) n
> 29	}
> (gdb) n
> 0x9000f8c8 in bsearch ()
> (gdb) n
> Single stepping until exit from function bsearch, 
> which has no line number information.
> 
> Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=0xbffaade0, v2=0x123ad4) at plt.c:25
> 25	  const Plt *p1=v1,*p2=v2;
> (gdb) n
> 27	  return strcmp(stn(p1->n),stn(p2->n));
> (gdb) p p2->n
> $8 = 0x11574c "__srget"
> (gdb) p p1->n
> $9 = 0x5742d1 "___srget"
> (gdb) n
> 29	}
> (gdb) n
> 0x9000f8c8 in bsearch ()
> (gdb) n
> Single stepping until exit from function bsearch, 
> which has no line number information.
> my_plt (s=0x5742d1 "___srget", v=0xbffff668) at plt.c:185
> 185	  return -1;
> (gdb) n
> 187	}
> (gdb) n
> build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:88
> 88	      if (q[u]->value) {
> (gdb) b sfasli.c:89
> Breakpoint 3 at 0xb1e28: file sfasli.c, line 89.
> (gdb) c
> Continuing.
> 
> Breakpoint 2, pltcomp (v1=0xbffaade0, v2=0x123b14) at plt.c:25
> 25	  const Plt *p1=v1,*p2=v2;
> (gdb) cl
> Deleted breakpoint 2 
> (gdb) c
> Continuing.
> 
> Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
> 89		h->type=bfd_link_hash_defined;
> (gdb) p q[u]->name
> $10 = 0x575f53 "_acos"
> (gdb) c
> Continuing.
> 
> Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
> 89		h->type=bfd_link_hash_defined;
> (gdb) p q[u]->name
> $11 = 0x575f59 "_acosh"
> (gdb) c
> Continuing.
> 
> Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
> 89		h->type=bfd_link_hash_defined;
> (gdb) cp q[u]->name
> $12 = 0x575f60 "_asin"
> (gdb) p q[u]->name
> (gdb) c[K
> Continuing.
> 
> Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
> 89		h->type=bfd_link_hash_defined;
> (gdb) cp q[u]->name
> $13 = 0x575f66 "_asinh"
> (gdb) p q[u]->name
> (gdb) c[K
> Continuing.
> 
> Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
> 89		h->type=bfd_link_hash_defined;
> (gdb) cp q[u]->name
> $14 = 0x575f6d "_atan"
> (gdb) p q[u]->name
> (gdb) c[K
> Continuing.
> 
> Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
> 89		h->type=bfd_link_hash_defined;
> (gdb) cp q[u]->name
> $15 = 0x575f73 "_atanh"
> (gdb) p q[u]->name
> (gdb) c[K
> Continuing.
> 
> Breakpoint 3, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:89
> 89		h->type=bfd_link_hash_defined;
> (gdb) cp q[u]->name
> $16 = 0x575f83 "_cos"
> (gdb) 
> 
> -----------
> 
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Camm Maguire [mailto:camm@enhanced.com] 
> > Sent: October 27, 2006 11:05 AM
> > To: bill.page1@synthesis.anikast.ca
> > Cc: axiom-developer@nongnu.org; gcl-devel@gnu.org
> > Subject: Re: gcl-2.6.8pre on MAC OSX 10.2
> > 
> > 
> > Greetings!
> > 
> > "Page, Bill" <Bill.Page@drdc-rddc.gc.ca> writes:
> > 
> > > Camm,
> > > 
> > > On Thursday, October 26, 2006 7:01 PM you asked:
> > > > 
> > > > Greetings!  Just wondering if this is the last axiom issue with
> > > > 2.6.8pre outstanding.  If not, what are the others?  If 
> > more testing
> > > > time is needed to answer this, how much more?
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Here is the debugging output you asked for in your previous email.
> > > 
> > > On Thursday, October 26, 2006 4:41 PM you wrote:
> > > > ... 
> > > > Please verify this by stepping through with n and this point.  In
> > > > fact, if you can step from this point to the bottom of 
> > this for loop
> > > > iteration, and then
> > > > 
> > > > (gdb) p 
> > > > *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FALSE,M
> > > Y_BFD_FALSE,MY_BFD_TRUE)
> > > > 
> > > > that would be most helpful.  
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > -------- 
> > > 
> > > (gdb) cond 1 (int) strstr(q[u]->name,"srget")
> > > (gdb) c
> > > Continuing.
> > > GCL (GNU Common Lisp)  April 1994  131072 pages
> > > Building symbol table for
> > > 
> > /private/automount/home/users/b/bi/billpage/osx/new/gcl-2.6.8p
> > re/unixpor
> > > t/raw_pre_gcl.tmp ..
> > > 
> > > Breakpoint 1, build_symbol_table_bfd () at sfasli.c:65
> > > 65          if (strncmp(q[u]->section->name,"*UND*",5) && 
> > !(q[u]->flags
> > > & BSF_WEAK))
> > > (gdb) p q[u]->name
> > > $1 = 0x5742d1 "___srget"
> > > (gdb) p q[u]->section->name
> > > $2 = 0x114e74 "*UND*"
> > > (gdb) p q[u]->flags
> > > $3 = 2
> > > (gdb) n
> > > 68          if ((c=(char *)strstr(q[u]->name,"@@"))) {
> > > (gdb) n
> > > 73          } else if
> > > (gdb) n
> > > 78          if (h->type!=bfd_link_hash_defined) {
> > > (gdb) n
> > > 79            if (!q[u]->section)
> > > (gdb) n
> > > 81            if (!my_plt(q[u]->name,&pa)) {
> > > (gdb) n
> > > 88            if (q[u]->value) {
> > > (gdb) n
> > > 95          if (c) {
> > > (gdb) p
> > > 
> > *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,MY_BFD_FALSE,M
> > Y_BFD_FALS
> > > E,MY_BFD_TRUE)
> > > No symbol "MY_BFD_FALSE" in current context.
> > > (gdb) p 
> > *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,0,0,MY_BFD_TRUE)
> > > No symbol "MY_BFD_TRUE" in current context.
> > > (gdb) p *bfd_link_hash_lookup(link_info.hash,q[u]->name,0,0,1)
> > > $4 = {
> > >   root = {
> > >     next = 0x0,
> > >     string = 0x76db28 "___srget",
> > >     hash = 163640344
> > >   },
> > >   type = bfd_link_hash_undefined,
> > >   u = {
> > >     undef = {
> > >       next = 0x76db34,
> > >       abfd = 0x54a2f0,
> > >       weak = 0x0
> > >     },
> > >     def = {
> > >       next = 0x76db34,
> > >       section = 0x54a2f0,
> > >       value = 0
> > >     },
> > >     i = {
> > >       next = 0x76db34,
> > >       link = 0x54a2f0,
> > >       warning = 0x0
> > >     },
> > >     c = {
> > >       next = 0x76db34,
> > >       p = 0x54a2f0,
> > >       size = 0
> > >     }
> > >   }
> > > }
> > 
> > Perfect!  Here is the problem -- the symbol has no value, to the code
> > never defines its address
> > 
> > > 88            if (q[u]->value) {
> > 
> > >   type = bfd_link_hash_undefined,
> > 
> > It would be helpful if you could break at line 89, and make sure that
> > other symbols are defined through their symbol value.  Preferably,
> > others in plt.h.
> > 
> > But before this, please step into my_plt with
> > 
> > (gdb) s
> > 
> > and step through the code.
> > 
> > This is also of interest therein:
> > 
> > (gdb) p mplt
> > 
> > and, before executing line 180:
> > 
> > (gdb) b pltcomp
> > 
> > then at each break into pltcomp, try to see why the named symbol is
> > not found.
> > 
> > BTW, is this macosx intel?  If not, has anyone tried this?
> > 
> > Take care,
> > 
> > > (gdb) n
> > > 58        for (u=0;u<v;u++) {
> > > (gdb)
> > > 
> > > ------------
> > > 
> > > I guess it didn't know MY_BFD_FALSE and MY_BFD_TRUE but I
> > > took a wild guess at what these symbols might be. Is this
> > > output useful to you?
> > > 
> > > Regards,
> > > Bill Page.
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > Camm Maguire			     			
> > camm@enhanced.com
> > ==============================================================
> > ============
> > "The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  -- 
> >  Baha'u'llah
> > 
> > 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



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Greetings!

Tim, saw you message on the web, so I can read, albeit awkwardly.
Does the latest 2.6.8pre work on all your fedora boxes?  If you still
see the segfault, could you please post the gdb output I requested
earlier?  

I think the macosx issue is now fixed.  Just wondering whether this
was macosx intel or not.  And if not, has anyone tried this?  Does
anyone have access to such a machine?  Is it important?

Take care,

Camm Maguire <camm@enhanced.com> writes:

> Greetings!  My understanding:
> 
> 1) Bill's helpful emacs site lisp patch to configure.in
> 2) finish tracing down the plt issue on macosx
> 3) figure out the error in fc6.
> 
> This is complete, right?  1) is waiting on me.  I think the latest
> email on 2 and 3 went out from me to Bill and Tim resp. with requested
> gdb commands therein.  I only write this as I'm noticing a lot more
> traffic on axiom-developer on the web than I am getting locally.
> Please do me the favor of cc'ing me directly until we can work out our
> mailer problems.
> 
> Take care,
> -- 
> Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
> ==========================================================================
> "The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Gcl-devel mailing list
> Gcl-devel@gnu.org
> http://lists.gnu.org/mailman/listinfo/gcl-devel
> 
> 
> 

-- 
Camm Maguire			     			camm@enhanced.com
==========================================================================
"The earth is but one country, and mankind its citizens."  --  Baha'u'llah



From MAILER-DAEMON Tue Oct 31 09:19:13 2006
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Hello,

On 10/31/2006 12:10 PM, Martin Rubey wrote:
> Dear Paul,
> 
>> So let me refrase my initial question: can somebody convert the hypertex
>> documentation to a general purpose format which is readable on all platforms?
>> Candidate formats are:
>> -pdf
>> -html
>> -info
>>
> 
> 
> I *STRONGLY* advise you to try something different: install Xming and try to
> get Tim Daly to give you instructions on compiling Axiom with HyperTex on
> MS-Windows. Possibly Bill Page also can help. If you mangage to get HyperDoc
> running and you provide some documentation, I'd propose you for a bounty!
> 
> If neither of them does, please send mail again, and I'll try to do something
> myself.
> 
> Alternatively, if you are keen on programming and know some perl, then maybe
> Ralf Hemmecke would be able to show you how to modify his AllProse to get
> something similar to HyperDoc. But I guess this is more difficult.

I don't think translating the HyperDoc contents into ALLPROSE is not so 
easy. And ALLPROSE is probably also not the right way to do it. I guess, 
you mean AldorDoc. Together with Christian Aistleitner I have agreed 
upon a few (additional) LaTeX commands to tag type names and function 
names. That lives basically in aldordoc.sty which is distributed with 
ALLPROSE. What is still missing is a program AldorDoc, that takes 
library code and transforms it into a nice format from which .dvi, .pdf, 
.html etc. could be generated. That program is still missing.

Anyway as a first start, I'd like to ask, where I should look for the 
sources of the contents of HyperDoc.

Could someone give a rough overview of the process how the content is 
produced? If I remember correctly there was some format to write 
hyperdoc pages, but what does that have to do with the API description 
of functions/domains/categories of Axiom. I guess the latter is 
generated from the ++ comments in the .spad files, right? Then what is 
the process from ++ to hyperdoc?

> The great thing about hyperdoc is that you can enter a category, say, for
> example, Ring, then press on a button labelled "Domains" and you will get all
> Domains known to Axiom that are Rings. I.e., Integer, Polynomial Integer,
> Fraction Integer, PrimeField, and so on. 

Right. ALLPROSE cannot do that. There are other tools necessary.

Ralf



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On October 31, 2006 4:12 AM Paul vL wrote:
> > 
> > On October 29, 2006 3:45 PM Tim Daly wrote:
> > >
> > > There are two books available in the src/doc directory.
> > > One is the original Axiom book and the second is a tutorial.
> > >
> > 
> > On Windows that's actually
> > 
> >    C:\Program Files\axiom\mnt\windows\doc
> > 
> > And there is a link to the Axiom Book in this directory available
> > from the Start menu.
> > 
> 
> I know of the Axiom book and the tutorial, but that does not 
> contain what I want; an overview of types and a list of functions
> for all types. Everywhere I looked, I was directed to hypertex,
> which is not available on windows.
> 
> So let me refrase my initial question: can somebody convert 
> the hypertex documentation to a general purpose format which is
> readable on all platforms? Candidate formats are:
> -pdf
> -html
> -info
>

We once had a draft of such a conversion to simple HTML done by
Kai Kaminski, one of the axiom developers, however the work on
this version of the browser source is not complete. Unfortunately
that doesn't help you immediately, but it should be re-assuring that
it is indeed possible.
 
> Without this documentation it *REALLY* is impossible for Windows
> users to quickly explore Axiom's functions and make use of them.
> Currently, Windows users can only use what they can find in the
> examples or the book, which is not complete.
> 

Your help and encourage to do this work is much appreciated.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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On October 31, 2006 8:54 AM Camm Maguire wrote:
> ... 
> I think the macosx issue is now fixed.  Just wondering whether
> this was macosx intel or not.  And if not, has anyone tried this?
> Does anyone have access to such a machine?  Is it important?
> 

The MAX OSX 10.2 that I am using at SourceForge is a PowerPC
machine. I will confirm later today that GCL really is now ok
on that platform.

I don't know where to find an intel based MAC. Maybe one of the
Sage developers? I will check later today.

Thanks.

Regards,
Bill Page.





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> > The point is that the list of domains which are of a certain category is
> > created dynamically. If I start a fresh axiom session, compile a spad file
> > which contains some new Ring, say MyWonderfulPhantasticRing it will be
> > listed by HyperDoc automatically.
> 
> Lots of software out there feature a built-in web server so that a browser can 
> act as the control. Axiom could do the same for the documentation, system 
> settings and other automation features.

The asq function was intended for non-X platforms so we could
still deliver the information without running Axiom.

I'm not much of a cgi-bin hacker but it seems to me that 
some simple C hacking and a command line option would enable
the output to be placed in html tables which could somehow
allow point-and-click for additional lookups. Memory fails
me but there is some way of constructing POST or GET around
items in tables so that you could click on table entries.
I'll have to look at my html reference book for details.

Indeed if the constructed html could pass algebra expressions
back to the cgi-bin then it could run axiom, capture the output,
and send it back.

The source is in src/etc/asq.c.pamphlet. There is some documentation
but I guess I thought the structure of the databases as random access
files was "obvious". I'll clearly have to update the documentation :-)

I wrote some detailed documentation about the database file format
somewhere on this list a couple weeks ago. I'll try to find it and
add it to the literate documentation of asq.


t



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> You can now look up Axiom domain and category information in a browser.
> Go to:
> 
> http://daly.axiom-developer.org/asq.php
> 
> to see it in operation. fill in the boxes with:
> 
> property   all
> search key INT
> 
> 
> Sorry for the lousy formatting but I'm not an html guru.
> It should be possible to get the rest into clickable html.
> I'll work on that later.
> 
> t

Bill,

This is just a trivial file asq.php in my public directory.
We could probably move this to the wiki.

t



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You can now look up Axiom domain and category information in a browser.
Go to:

http://daly.axiom-developer.org/asq.php

to see it in operation. fill in the boxes with:

property   all
search key INT


Sorry for the lousy formatting but I'm not an html guru.
It should be possible to get the rest into clickable html.
I'll work on that later.

t



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On Tuesday, October 31, 2006 2:41 PM Tim Daly wrote:
>=20
> > You can now look up Axiom domain and category information=20
> > in a browser. Go to:
> >=20
> > http://daly.axiom-developer.org/asq.php
> >=20
> > to see it in operation. fill in the boxes with:
> >=20
> > property   all
> > search key INT
> >=20
> >=20
> > Sorry for the lousy formatting but I'm not an html guru.
> > It should be possible to get the rest into clickable html.
> > I'll work on that later.
> >=20
> > t
>=20
> Bill,
>=20
> This is just a trivial file asq.php in my public directory.
> We could probably move this to the wiki.
>=20

Tim, that's pretty neat. Yes we can easily provide this as
a search page on the Axiom wiki. The wiki uses Python and
Zope instead of PHP but in any case this is fairly trivial
to write in either environment.

For installation on a workstation however I think it would be
MUCH better if this was done without PHP. Certainly having
PHP as a prerequisite on Windows is a bit too "heavy". Since
this is supposed to work with Axiom, I think a better choice
would be a simple Lisp script. Camm provided a while back
(maybe a year ago?) about 10 lines of Lisp code that implements
a simple web server. This could be implemented in Axiom as a
command such as:

  )browse )port 80 )start firefox

which would automatically start a web browser and run the web
server script.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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> Tim, that's pretty neat. Yes we can easily provide this as
> a search page on the Axiom wiki. The wiki uses Python and
> Zope instead of PHP but in any case this is fairly trivial
> to write in either environment.

it's trivial as is so rewrite it at will.

 
> For installation on a workstation however I think it would be
> MUCH better if this was done without PHP. Certainly having
> PHP as a prerequisite on Windows is a bit too "heavy". Since
> this is supposed to work with Axiom, I think a better choice
> would be a simple Lisp script. Camm provided a while back
> (maybe a year ago?) about 10 lines of Lisp code that implements
> a simple web server. This could be implemented in Axiom as a
> command such as:
> 
>   )browse )port 80 )start firefox
> 
> which would automatically start a web browser and run the web
> server script.

this would be very, very slick.
i'll have to try that.
do you happen to have a pointer?

t



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Tim,=20

On Tuesday, October 31, 2006 3:29 PM wrote:
> ...
> Bill Page wrote: =20
> > For installation on a workstation however I think it would be
> > MUCH better if this was done without PHP. Certainly having
> > PHP as a prerequisite on Windows is a bit too "heavy". Since
> > this is supposed to work with Axiom, I think a better choice
> > would be a simple Lisp script. Camm provided a while back
> > (maybe a year ago?) about 10 lines of Lisp code that implements
> > a simple web server. This could be implemented in Axiom as a
> > command such as:
> >=20
> >   )browse )port 80 )start firefox
> >=20
> > which would automatically start a web browser and run the web
> > server script.
>=20
> this would be very, very slick.
> i'll have to try that.
> do you happen to have a pointer?
>=20

http://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/axiom-developer/2005-04/msg00141.ht
ml

and related messages in the thread. In Camm's example code
function 'foo' could be make to call asq and wrap the result
as preformatted just like you did in PHP.

Regards,
Bill Page.



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axiom--silver--1--patch-10 is available

Improve the database documentation

20061031 tpd src/interp/daase.lisp add database documentation
20061031 tpd src/etc/asq.c add database documentation



