From krishna@shamu.csd.sgi.com Fri Jan  6 18:59:13 1995
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Date: Fri, 6 Jan 1995 10:59:13 -0800
From: krishna@shamu.csd.sgi.com (Krishna `Shamu' Sethuraman)
Message-Id: <199501061859.KAA23458@shamu.csd.sgi.com>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: perl5 manual in emacs TeXinfo and info format
Reply-To: krishna@sgi.com
X-Face: (pBgAhf!8i+tk8#bm9mBS_ba=:f1qe<BFX]*5I{ndlGJm$pLGyd`RLDYZSR<8[xI<8<X.p/K(]^#xVfMWTgTQ#n`xJp,>mMN3Zc>~TZ<13!BD:p*Ot_dRf+N$8GmBJOA4nc'2ZGt('o}ykqY>gQ4d`r8JBpL`#2jMr+jvg(61m:_(m"X)JdG"3^QTI1"CA\4_W#6i~vpL-


I've got a compressed tar file -- can I place it on ftp.metronet.com somewhere
so you can unpack it and take a look at it and possibly include it in the
/pub/perl/emacs directory?

Krishna

From wjm Fri Jan 20 04:10:36 1995
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From: wjm (Bill Middleton)
Date: Thu, 19 Jan 1995 22:10:36 -0600
In-Reply-To: krishna@shamu.csd.sgi.com (Krishna Sethuraman)
       "perl5 doc in TeX/info" (Jan  9,  3:04pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: krishna@shamu.csd.sgi.com (Krishna Sethuraman)
Subject: Re: perl5 doc in TeX/info
Cc: perl-packrats, perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com

On Jan 9,  3:04pm, Krishna Sethuraman wrote:
} Subject: perl5 doc in TeX/info
} 
} Done. 
} 

Thanks, (wish we had a pod2info tho... :)

It's now at ftp://www.metronet.com/pub/perl5/manual/perl5-info.tar.gz

And on the web page.


Bill


From Jan.Djarv@sa.erisoft.se Fri Jan 20 07:41:18 1995
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From: Jan.Djarv@sa.erisoft.se (Jan Djarv)
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Subject: Re: perl5 doc in TeX/info
To: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Fri, 20 Jan 1995 08:41:18 +0100 (MET)
Cc: krishna@shamu.csd.sgi.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com
In-Reply-To: <199501200410.AA15549@metronet.com> from "Bill Middleton" at Jan 19, 95 10:10:36 pm
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Bill Middleton wrote:
> 
> On Jan 9,  3:04pm, Krishna Sethuraman wrote:
> } Subject: perl5 doc in TeX/info
> } 
> } Done. 
> } 
> 
> Thanks, (wish we had a pod2info tho... :)
> 
> It's now at ftp://www.metronet.com/pub/perl5/manual/perl5-info.tar.gz
> 
> And on the web page.
> 
> 

Seems the correct location is:
	ftp://www.metronet.com/pub/perl/perl5/manual/perl5-info.tar.gz 

	Jan D.

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Sun Feb 12 22:18:29 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 00:18:29 +0200
Message-Id: <199502122218.AAA15247@alpha.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: CPAN idea still alive?
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How about the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network 1) being reincarnated?
(well, never had one but the idea was there :-).  As I write I am
grabbing the whole ftp.cis.ufl.edu archive alongside with the funet
one and I will start merging them.  Yes, merging according to my very own
personal ideas 2)...I know we will not agree on how things should
be organised :-) but I guess unless someone starts the job nothing
will ever happen.  When I am done, I will let you wander in there
and you can criticise to your hearts' content.

Points of note:

	- the MS-DOS versions (p4) are already well contained
	  in the std MS-DOS archives, the MS-DOS people maintain
	  and update it perfectly well on their own?
	- the db stuff already has an archive site of their own,
	  leave it as a separate archive or merge it into CPAN?
	  Is the db stuff perl4 only (at the moment) or p5 also?
	  If both, are they how cleanly separated?
	- perl4/doc or doc/perl4?  we are never gonna settle on
	  either so let's do both, I vote for perl4/ being
	  the primary one, doc/perl4 would then be a symlink
	- various Perl repositories have their strengths,
	  some sites have the scripts nicely laid down, some have
	  the non-perl ports, etc.  This brings us the question:
	  if and when the CPAN comes true, should we appoint certain
	  people to maintain certain parts of it?  I vaguely remember
	  that back when the packrats list was more lively someone
	  had asked the CTAN people about this kind of policy stuff?
	  Anyone have any better recollection?
	- how about the scripts situation?  I really haven't followed
	  things as much as I should have...  Has someone sorted
	  and classified them and put them cleanly into subdirs?
	  How well/bad are p4/p5 separated in the scripts?
	- what about various Web configurations to browse and
	  search them things?  Should they be synchronised too
	  for the CPAN sites?

1) a la TeX CTAN being mirrored in US, UK and Germany.  Which brings
   to my mind...how widely should CPAN be mirrored?

2) At the moment I have mentally sketched something like this
   (I have not yet started the merging...)

doc/
	perl4@
	perl5@
misc/
	byacc/
perl4/
	db/
	doc/
		faq/
		man/
		metafaq/
		ora/
			camel/
			llama/
		texinfo/
		tutorials/
	ports/
		amiga/
		atari/
		lynxos/
		...
		snmp/
		tkperl/
		vms/
		...
	scripts/
	src/
		perl-4.036.tar.gz
		patches/
			dec-osf1/
perl5/
	doc/
		pod/
		man/
		html/
	ext/
	lib/
	src/
		perl-5.000.tar.gz
		patches/
			patch.0a
			...
ports/
	perl4@
scripts/
	perl4@
	perl5@
src/
	perl4@
	perl5@

++jhi;

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Sun Feb 12 22:41:02 1995
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Before anyone else asks...naturally I (we...) will attempt to merge
_all_ the various Perl archive sites, funet and ufl will just be
the starting points...

++jhi;

From grady@swindle.Berkeley.EDU Mon Feb 13 02:50:17 1995
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN idea still alive? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 13 Feb 1995 00:18:29 +0200 
	     <199502122218.AAA15247@alpha.hut.fi> 
Date: Sun, 12 Feb 95 18:50:17 -0800
From: grady@swindle.Berkeley.EDU

I made an effort at doing this in preparation for the Perl CD-ROM (which
seems to be stalled in the last stages at the moment; I am still expecting
it to come out soon...)

Specifically, in wcarchive.cdrom.com:pub/perl, I have collected essentially
the complete contents of the following archives.  The mirrors
are in the subdirectory "mirror"; the rest if the hierarchy is either
soft-links to the mirrors, or uncompressed copies of the contents
of the mirrors.
    convex.com:/pub/perl
    ftp.demon.co.uk:/pub/perl
    ftp.dreams.org:/pub/perl-manual
    ftp.funet.fi:/pub/languages/perl
    jagubox.gsfc.nasa.gov:/pub/aux
    ftp.ira.uka.de:/pub/x11/tkperl
    ftp.ee.umanitoba.ca:/pub/msdos/perl
    ftp.metronet.com:/pub/perl
    ftp.netlabs.com:/pub/outgoing
    ftp.cis.ohio-state.edu:/pub/perl
    ftp.ora.com:/pub/examples/nutshell/{learning,programming}_perl
    ahab.rutgers.edu:/pub/perl
    sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/languages/perl
    nic.switch.ch:software/mac/perl
    ftp.cis.ufl.edu:/pub/perl
    wingra.stat.wisc.edu:/pub/doc

My hierarchy resembles the one you proposed.  The one thing I haven't
yet had time for is working to organize the perl scripts themselves.
That will come later (and I hope it will be a result of packrats folks'
efforts as much as my own).

	Steven

From bmiddlet@hpmail2.fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com Mon Feb 13 14:45:47 1995
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From: bmiddlet@ftw.mot.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 08:45:47 -0600
In-Reply-To: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
       "CPAN idea still alive?" (Feb 13, 12:18am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN idea still alive?
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com

On Feb 13, 12:18am, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
} Subject: CPAN idea still alive?
} 
} How about the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network 1) being reincarnated?

Cool.

} 	- the db stuff already has an archive site of their own,
} 	  leave it as a separate archive or merge it into CPAN?
} 	  Is the db stuff perl4 only (at the moment) or p5 also?
} 	  If both, are they how cleanly separated?

I think Tim's kind of partial to his site remaining the master, and
I agree.  No reason we cant mirror tho'.  Metronet has a scripts/dbstuff
area too, which may or may not have anything useful beyond what Tim has.

} 	- perl4/doc or doc/perl4?  we are never gonna settle on
} 	  either so let's do both, I vote for perl4/ being
} 	  the primary one, doc/perl4 would then be a symlink

Second.

} 	- various Perl repositories have their strengths,
} 	  some sites have the scripts nicely laid down, some have
} 	  the non-perl ports, etc.  This brings us the question:
} 	  if and when the CPAN comes true, should we appoint certain
} 	  people to maintain certain parts of it?  I vaguely remember
} 	  that back when the packrats list was more lively someone
} 	  had asked the CTAN people about this kind of policy stuff?
} 	  Anyone have any better recollection?

I believe the answers are still in the packrat mail, at metronet.

http://www.metronet.com/1/perlinfo/packrats/mailing-list


In general, I'd say to run with with it.  I'll be happy to accept
assignments, regarding specific areas, but I just don't have time 
to coordinate anymore.  Steven has made some good headway, in 
terms of grabbing everything available, so why not use what he
has as the master list of sites, then designate people to work
on specific areas for awhile, then compare notes after a month
or so?

It really needs a coordinator more than another separate effort.


Bill

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Mon Feb 13 14:56:14 1995
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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 16:56:14 +0200
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Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: bmiddlet@ftw.mot.com (Bill Middleton)
Cc: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN idea still alive?
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	<199502131445.IAA26164@fwhns15.fwrdc.rtsg.mot.com>
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> I believe the answers are still in the packrat mail, at metronet.

Found'em.

> In general, I'd say to run with with it.  I'll be happy to accept
> assignments, regarding specific areas, but I just don't have time 

Organising the scripts, maybe?

> to coordinate anymore.  Steven has made some good headway, in 
> terms of grabbing everything available, so why not use what he
> has as the master list of sites, then designate people to work

Yes, he has indeed.  As we speak cdrom.com is being grabbed to
my work disk.  Well, not all of it, just the perl... :-)

> has as the master list of sites, then designate people to work
> on specific areas for awhile, then compare notes after a month
> or so?

What I am planning to do is to grab everything: while Perl-websurfing
yesterday evening I noticed some minor things that Steven has overlooked...
(jperl, for instance), canonise everything (shar->tar, Z->gz, *->gz)
and run all through md5 checksumming so that the duplicates can be
weeded out.  After that I'll throw The CPAN Draft #0 together and let
all the interested parties to say their opinion on it.  After that the
splitting into interest groups could be done?

++jhi;

From spp@vx.com Mon Feb 13 15:07:18 1995
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From: spp@vx.com (Stephen Potter)
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Date: Mon, 13 Feb 1995 10:07:18 -0500
In-Reply-To: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
        "CPAN idea still alive?" (Feb 13, 12:18am)
References: <199502122218.AAA15247@alpha.hut.fi>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail)
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN idea still alive?
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On Feb 13, 12:18am, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> Subject: CPAN idea still alive?
>
> How about the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network 1) being reincarnated?

I'm for this idea.  I'm no longer at UF, so I can't spend a lot of time
keeping it up.  However, if I could mirror a standard site and have my own
little additions (like the newsgroup archive, which I don't think needs to
be part of the CPAN because of it's size and minimal usefulness), I'd be
quite happy knowing it is still active and current.

> personal ideas 2)...I know we will not agree on how things should
> be organised :-) but I guess unless someone starts the job nothing
> will ever happen.  When I am done, I will let you wander in there
> and you can criticise to your hearts' content.

I think we can come to a concensus of what we want.  We may not all agree
on everything completely, but I think we can probably agree enough.

> 	- the MS-DOS versions (p4) are already well contained
> 	  in the std MS-DOS archives, the MS-DOS people maintain
> 	  and update it perfectly well on their own?

Since none of the major sites carry the Amiga port, this could be
acceptible.  However, the C in CPAN kind of suggests that maybe we should
pick both of them up?  Set up one site to be the central server (maybe
metronet, is it the most well maintained currently?) to mirror these to and
we can mirror from them?

> 	- the db stuff already has an archive site of their own,
> 	  leave it as a separate archive or merge it into CPAN?
> 	  Is the db stuff perl4 only (at the moment) or p5 also?
> 	  If both, are they how cleanly separated?

There is both p4 and p5 stuff in that.  I suggest merging it as it is a
fairly large portion of the current development and needs to have better
distribution.

> 	- perl4/doc or doc/perl4?  we are never gonna settle on
> 	  either so let's do both, I vote for perl4/ being
> 	  the primary one, doc/perl4 would then be a symlink

I'd vote the other way.  I think we should split on function and then
version as needed because there is a lot of overlap.  Look for example at
where you placed the FAQ.. under perl4, which is incorrect.  There is a
great deal of p5 stuff in the FAQ now, so it should go in a version
independent area.

> 	- how about the scripts situation?  I really haven't followed
> 	  things as much as I should have...  Has someone sorted
> 	  and classified them and put them cleanly into subdirs?
> 	  How well/bad are p4/p5 separated in the scripts?

Check out the perl archive at ftp.cdrom.com (Walnut Creek).  They seem to
have a fairly nice layout.  I don't remember how the scripts were divided.
One suggestion for ease of maintaining might be to select certain
categories (sysadmin, news, mail, database, etc) and request that anyone
wishing to submit a script to the CPAN label it thusly.

> 	- what about various Web configurations to browse and
> 	  search them things?  Should they be synchronised too
> 	  for the CPAN sites?

Naw... the nice things about the Web are that everyone is free to use their
own creativity and that you can put a link to anything you want.  If we
want to have a central Web site for the archive, that'd be fine.  Let the
other pages stand on their own though.

> 1) a la TeX CTAN being mirrored in US, UK and Germany.  Which brings
>    to my mind...how widely should CPAN be mirrored?

Anyone who wants to devote the space to it.  I know for a fact that UF will
be happy to provide the space.  I spoke with the Sys Admins before I left
UF and they feel that site should be kept up.  They aren't devoting any
resources to keep it up, but they are giving me free reign to maintain it.

> doc/
> 	perl4@
> 	perl5@
	faq/
    	    metafaq
	man/
> misc/
> 	byacc/
> perl4/
> 	db/
> 	doc/
> 		texinfo/
> 		tutorials/
>	ora/
		camel/
		llama/
> 	ports/
> 		amiga/
> 		atari/
> 		lynxos/
> 		...
> 		snmp/
> 		tkperl/
> 		vms/
> 		...
> 	scripts/
> 	src/
> 		perl-4.036.tar.gz
> 		patches/
> 			dec-osf1/
> perl5/
> 	doc/
> 		pod/
> 		man/
> 		html/
> 	ext/
> 	lib/
> 	src/
> 		perl-5.000.tar.gz
> 		patches/
> 			patch.0a
> 			...
> ports/
> 	perl4@
> scripts/
> 	perl4@
> 	perl5@
> src/
> 	perl4@
> 	perl5@
>

I go along with the basic ideas here.  Notice some of the changes I made
(moving some things out of /{version}/doc into /doc).  Also, I heard there
was a texinfo conversion someone did of the p5 pods.  Perhaps we should
pull texinfo out of perl4/doc into doc.

Steve

PS: Can whoever maintains packrats change me from spp@cis.ufl.edu to
spp@vx.com.
Thanks.

--
Stephen P Potter		spp@vx.com		Varimetrix Corporation
2350 Commerce Park Drive, Suite 4			    Palm Bay, FL 32905
(407) 676-3222 						  CAD/CAM/CAE/Software



From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Sun Feb 19 21:42:13 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
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Message-Id: <199502192142.XAA03897@alpha.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: The CPAN Lives - progress report #1
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	- fetched big tars from 17 sites 1)
	- unpacked .{Z,gz,z}
	- zapped stuff like gopher/web/mirroring metafiles, ls-LR
	- reduced du(multi-)plicates with md5
	
Next I'll go through the identically named files.  For example, I've got
7 different scripts all called 'rename' (before the md5 reducing I had 13)...
oh boy I'm gonna have fun :-)  When I've figured out what to do with these
identical names I'll start shuffling things around, piecing the CPAN
structure together.  At the moment we've got something like 476 MB
and 7100 files.  One very dubious contributor is the funet (I confess...)
Wafe mirror, 152 MB.  I guess Wafe shouldn't be part of the CPAN,
it's more of a X thing...  The ufl c.l.p. archives account for 65 MB.
After those out, we've got 259 MB.

++jhi;

1) ahab.rutgers.edu        ftp.funet.fi            sra.co.jp
   convex.com              ftp.ira.uka.de          src.doc.ic.ac.uk
   ftp.cis.ohio-state.edu  ftp.metronet.com        sunsite.unc.edu
   ftp.demon.co.uk         ftp.netlabs.com         wingra.stat.wisc.edu
   ftp.dreams.com          ftp.ora.com
   ftp.ee.umanitoba.ca     jagubox.gsfc.nasa.gov

2) But maybe leave a pointer to the real Wafe sites?

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Sun Feb 19 22:02:55 1995
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I confess also that I did not grap ufl per se, I instead trusted
in the src.doc.ic.ac.uk mirror of it...but the rest of the sites
I either got directly, from my own mirrors or from cdrom.com.

++jhi;

From jared@math.hmc.edu Mon Feb 20 03:26:35 1995
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From: Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: CPAN ideas
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As the person who started all the CPAN talk long ago, I'm glad to see some
action on the subject.  I'm including a few random thoughts below; please
brainstorm along with me.

  + I think one of the most important aspects of the CPAN is that it be
    relatively easy to maintain.  While there may be a few charitable folks
    willing to provide a couple hundred megs to help serve the Perl
    community, there are fewer folks who can afford to donate many hours per
    week to its maintenance.

    As such, the CPAN should help be maintained by lots of handy perl
    scripts :)

  + Another important aspect of the CPAN should be that submission
    guidelines are clearly spelled out and easy to perform.  Authors should
    be able to submit items and be assured that their contribution will get
    reliably transmitted to all participating CPAN sites.

    In accordance with the "ease of maintenance" issue discussed above, this
    distribution should take place automatically, without maintainer
    intervention.  Mirror technology is pretty well understood; it shouldn't
    be too difficult to implement this efficiently.

  + As I discussed before (I think), an important part of the CPAN is the
    "C" for comprehensive.  As much as possible, we should try to
    consolidate everything we can into one archive.  If an author really
    doesn't want to include their resources in the archive, we should
    include a pointer to it, but we should try to minimize the amount of
    host-jumping a person has to do to track something down.  Authors who
    want to maintain local control but still have their resources in the
    CPAN should be able to have the CPAN mirror their local archive.

  + It would be nice to implement some decent mechanisms for resource
    discovery; there should be better ways of finding what you're looking
    for besides trolling a directory structure.

    My current favored techniques would be to assign one or more keywords to
    each resource in the CPAN.  These keywords should be chosen from a
    controlled vocabulary, which shouldn't be very hard to put together
    given the fairly focused subject matter.

    To find something in the archive, the end user could perform a boolean
    search using the keywords.  I prefer this technique because it would be
    easy to implement a nice web-based search engine on the archive.  From a
    menu, the user selects which keywords they're interested in, and the
    search engine returns a page with links to each resource that matched.
    A controlled vocabulary is better than just searching on abstracts since
    the cataloger and the searcher will be much more likely to use the same
    keyword.

    (As a sidelight, this idea allows for CPAN subsets.  A site could chose
    to only mirror "unix & sysadmin + mail + news" scripts, if that's all
    they were interested in, instead of having to do a full mirror.  Not
    worth doing yet, but a nifty idea.)

  + Each resource in the CPAN should have an associated abstract.  This may
    be a pain to construct at the outset, but once done, would be much
    easier to maintain.  I think the added value is obvious.

  + It might be worth assigning unique identifiers to everything that gets
    entered into the CPAN.  If we have unique, persistent names for our
    resources, it will be much easier to utilize the eventually-to-get-here
    URN architecture.

More random ideas to follow, I'm sure.  Please remember I'm only
brainstorming; none of the above are guaranteed to be great ideas.

-- 
Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu | Harvey Mudd College | http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home.html

"One cannot mark the point without marking the path."

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Tue Feb 28 15:49:14 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Simple instructions for releasing scripts/extensions onto ftp archives
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 15:49:14 +0000
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9502281615.aa12788@post.demon.co.uk>

Hi,

I want to add to the Perl 5 Module List some simple instructions for
releasing scripts/extensions onto ftp archives.

For example:

   on host:           ftp.icnet.uk
   upload to:         /icrf-public/biu/perlmods/incoming
   will be moved to:  /icrf-public/biu/perlmods
   after emailing to: js@biu.icnet.uk

along with some notes about what should be included in the notification
email.

It would also be handy to know who mirrors which archives where.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Tim Bunce.

p.s. This is practically the last thing holding up the next major
issue of the Module List.

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Tue Feb 28 16:12:41 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Request for summary
Date: Tue, 28 Feb 1995 16:12:41 +0000
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9502281616.ab12788@post.demon.co.uk>

Could someone give me a summary of what the packrats are planning
for perl archive management? Just to get me upto speed.

I've only just joined the mailing list (at least I think I've joined,
I've not seen any messages but maybe it's just quiet).

Thanks.

Regards,
Tim Bunce.

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Tue Feb 28 23:52:40 1995
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[forgive me any typos and/or inconsistencies, I've been just to
 attending one guy's polterabend (not my own :-) hiccup...burp....]

The status is: after a long quite, torpid period, I decided to pump some
life into the Perl packrat business: I declared that I'm gonna grab every
Perl archive there is to my disk, unique, organize and classify things
a little bit and then let everyone to browse around so that we could
get a single, all-that-you-need: CPA, a Comprehensive Perl Archive.
Networked, naturally, so that the CPA would be mirrored -->
CPAN == CPA + Network.

At the moment: I've done the grabbing part and preliminary uniqueing
stuff, next I'll have to go through the stuff that is named identically
in several different places (e.g. 7 different scripts called 'rename'...).

++jhi;

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Fri Mar  3 00:09:55 1995
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To: perl5-porters@nicoh.com
Subject: comp.lang.perl The Perl 5 Module List (Reusable Software)
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Fri, 3 Mar 1995 00:09:55 +0000
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9503030010.aa16771@post.demon.co.uk>

This should be the final 'draft' Module List before I start posting
to comp.lang.perl.

I'm using the auto-faq software to manage the faq - hence the headers.

Please give it another quick review. Especially the changed parts.

I've CC'd this to the perl-packrats@feenix.metronet.com in the hope that
they can offer some suggestions for the middle part of section 2.8.

Regards,
Tim Bunce.

--- would have posted news ---
From: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk (Tim Bunce)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
Subject: comp.lang.perl The Perl 5 Module List (Reusable Software)
Message-ID: <perl-faq/module-list-1-794189061@ig.co.uk>
Reply-To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk (Tim Bunce)
Followup-To: comp.lang.perl
Distribution: world
Expires: Fri 07 Apr 95 01:04:21 BST
Supersedes: <perl-module-list-1-793311299@ig.co.uk>
Keywords: FAQ Perl Module Software Reuse
Posting-Frequency: monthly

Posted-By: auto-faq 3.1.1.2
Archive-name: perl-faq/module-list
Revision: 2.1 1995/03/03 00:02:26


The Perl 5 Module List                        Maintained by Tim Bunce
----------------------                        <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
                                              $Revision: 2.1 $
Contents

     Introduction
+    Playing Your Part
+    How To Get an More Recent Copy
     Editorial Information

Part 1 - Modules: Creation, Use and Abuse

1)   Perl 5 Module Terminology
2) ! Guidelines for Module Creation
3)   Guidelines for Converting Perl 4 Library Scripts into Modules
4) ! Guidelines for Reusing Application Code

Part 2 - The Perl 5 Module List

1)   Module Listing Format
2)   Perl Core Modules and Perl Language Extensions
3)   Development Support
4) + Operating System Interfaces
5) ! Networking, Device Control (modems) and InterProcess Communication
6) + Data Types and Data Type Utilities
7) + Database Interfaces
8) ! User Interfaces
9) ! Interfaces to / Emulations of Other Programming Languages
10)  File Names, File Systems, File Locking and File Handles
11)  Text Processing, Parsing and Searching
12)+ Option, Augument and Parameter Processing
13)  Internationalization and Locale
14)! Security and Encryption
15)+ World Wide Web, HTTP and CGI
16)+ Server and Daemon Utilities
17)+ Miscellaneous Interfaces to Other Software Systems

Part 3 - Who's Who

1) + Information / Contact Reference Details


Key: '+' indicates a new item or section,
     '!' indicates a changed item or section.


=======================================================================

Introduction

This document is a semi-formal list of Perl 5 Modules. The Perl 4
concept of packages has been extended in Perl 5 and a new standardised
form of reusable software component has been defined: the Module.

Perl 5 Modules typically conform to certain guidelines which make them
easier to use, reuse, integrate and extend.

This list is (or will be) posted to comp.lang.perl on a semi-regular
basis.  It has two key aims:

 1. FOR DEVELOPERS: To change duplication of effort into cooperation.

 2. FOR USERS: To quickly locate existing software which can be reused.

This list includes the Perl 5 standard modules, other completed modules,
work-in-progress modules and would-be-nice-to-have ideas for modules.
It also includes guidelines for those wishing to create new modules
including how to name them.


+ Playing Your Part

Perl is a huge collaborative effort. Everyone who uses perl is
benefiting from the contributions of many hundreds, maybe thousands, of
people. How much time has perl saved you since you started using it?

Do you have any modules you could share with others?  For example, you
may have some perl4 scripts from which generally useful, and resuable,
modules could be extracted.  There may be many people who would find
your work very useful.  Please play you part and contribute to the Perl
community where you can. [ end of sermon :-]


+ How To Get an More Recent Copy

At the time of writing, this Module List is posted manually by me to
comp.lang.perl on a semi-regular basis (approximately monthly) with a
long expiry time (over a month). The first place to look for a more
recent copy is therefore you own Usenet comp.lang.perl spool area.
I am currently seeking approval for regular posting to *.answers and
archiving on rtmf.mit.edu.

You should be able to get a copy from one of these places:
  ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/modules.list
(please let me know about any others)


Editorial Information

This document is Copyright (c) 1995 by Tim Bunce. All rights reservered.
Permission to distribute this document, in full or part, via electronic
means (emailed, posted or archived) or printed copy is granted
providing that no charges are involved, reasonable attempt is made to
use the most current version, and all credits and copyright notices are
retained.  Requests for other distribution rights, including
incorporation in commercial products, such as books, magazine articles,
or CD-ROMs should be made to Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk.

Disclaimer: The content of this document is simply a collection of
information gathered from many sources with little or no checking.
There are NO warranties with regard to this information or its use.

Help save the world! Please submit new entries and updates to me so I
can keep this list up-to-date. I would prefer changes to be submitted
as context diff's (or just plain diff if your diff does not have a
context diff option) by email to Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk. No tabs please.



=======================================================================


        Part 1 - Modules: Creation, Use and Abuse
        =========================================


1) Perl 5 Module Terminology (a larry-terminology-mini-tutorial)
   -------------------------

Perl 5 implements a class using a package, but the presence of a
package doesn't imply the presence of a class.  A package is just a
namespace.  A class is a package that provides subroutines that can be
used as methods.  A method is just a subroutine that expects, as its
first argument, either the name of a package (for "static" methods),
or a reference to something (for "virtual" methods).

A module is a file that (by convention) provides a class of the same
name (sans the .pm), plus an import method in that class that can be
called to fetch exported symbols.  This module may implement some of
its methods by loading dynamic C or C++ objects, but that should be
totally transparent to the user of the module.  Likewise, the module
might set up an AUTOLOAD function to slurp in subroutine definitions on
demand, but this is also transparent.  Only the .pm file is required to
exist.


2) Guidelines for Module Creation
   ------------------------------

2.1 Do similar modules already exist in some form?

   If so, please try to reuse the exisiting modules either in whole or
   by inheriting useful features into a new class.  If this is not
   practical try to get together with the module authors to work on
   extending or enhancing the functionality of the exisiting modules.
   A perfect example is the plethora of packages in perl4 for dealing
   with command line options.

   If you are writing a module to expand an already exisiting set of
   modules, please cooridinate with the author of the package.  It
   helps if you follow the same naming scheme and module interaction
   scheme as the original author.

2.2 ! Try to design the new module to be easy to extend.

   Use blessed references. Inherit methods from other modules. Use the
   two argument form of bless to bless into the class name given as the
   first parameter of the constructor, e.g., bless {}, $_[0];

   Avoid $r->Class::func() where using @ISA=qw(...  Class ...) and
   $r->func() would work (see perlbot man page for more details).

   Pass arrays to functions as references so more parameters can be added
   later (it's also faster). Split large functions into smaller more
   flexible ones.  Use autosplit so little used or newly added
   functions won't be a burden to programs which don't use them.

2.3 ! Select what to export.

   Do NOT export method names!
   Do NOT export anything else by default without a good reason!

   Exports pollute the namespace of the module user.  If you must
   export try to use @EXPORT_OK in preference to @EXPORT and avoid
   short or common names to reduce the risk of name clashes.

   Generally anything not exported is still accessible from outside the
   module using the ModuleName::item_name (or $blessed_ref->method)
   syntax.  By convention you can use a leading underscore on names to
   informally indicate that they are 'internal' and not for public use.

   (It is actually possible to get private functions by saying:
   my $subref = sub { ... };  &$subref; But there's no way to call that
   directly as a method, since a method must have a name in the symbol
   table.)

   As a general rule, if the module is trying to be object oriented
   then export nothing. If it's just a collection of functions then
   @EXPORT_OK anything but use @EXPORT with caution.

2.4 Select a name for the module.

   This name should be as descriptive, accurate and complete as possible.
   Avoid any risk of ambiguity. Always try to use two or more whole words.
   Please use nested module names to group or categorise a module.

   Having 57 modules all called Sort will not make life easy for anyone
   (though having 23 called Sort::Quick is only marginally better :-).
   Imagine someone trying to install your module alongside many others.
   If in any doubt ask for suggestions in comp.lang.perl.

   If you are developing a suite of related modules/classes it's good
   practice to use nested classes with a common prefix as this will
   avoid namespace clashes. For example:  Xyz::Control, Xyz::View,
   Xyz::Model etc.

   If adding a new module to a set, follow the original author's
   standards for naming modules and the interface to methods in
   those modules.

   To be portable module names should be limited to 11 characters (if
   it might be used on DOS then try to ensure it's unique in the first
   8 characters).

2.5 README and other Additional Files

   It's well known that software developers usually fully document the
   software they write. If, however, the world is in urgent need of
   your software and there is not enough time to write the full
   documentation please at least provide a README file containing:

     A description of the module/package/extension etc.
     A copyright notice - see below.
     Prerequisites - what else you may need to have.
     How to build it - possible changes to Makefile.PL etc.
     How to install it.
     Recent changes in this release, especially incompatibilities
     Changes / enhancements you plan to make in the future.

   If the README file seems to be getting too large you may wish to
   split out some of the sections into separate files: INSTALL,
   Copying, ToDo etc.

2.6 Adding a Copyright Notice

   How you choose to licence your work is a personal decision.
   The general mechanism is to assert your Copyright and then make
   a declaration of how others may copy/use/modify your work.

   Perl, for example, is supplied with two types of licence: The GNU
   GPL and The Artistic License (see the files README, Copying and
   Artistic).  Larry has good reasons for NOT just using the GNU GPL.

   My personal recommendation, out of respect for Larry, Perl and the
   perl community at large is to simply state something like:

     Copyright (c) 1995 Your Name. All rights reserved.
     This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
     modify it under the same terms as Perl itself.

   This statement should at least appear in the README file. You may
   also wish to include it in a Copying file and your source files.

2.7 ! Give the module a version/issue/release number.

   Add a function or method to retrieve the number. Use the number in
   announcements and archive file names when releasing the module
   (ModuleName-1.02.tar.Z). See ExtUtils::MakeMaker.pm for details.
   It's a good idea to use two digits after the decimal point.

2.8 ! How to release and distribute a module.

   It is good idea to post an announcement of the availablity of your
   module (or the module itself if small) to the comp.lang.perl
   Usenet newsgroup.  This will at least ensure very wide once-off
   distribution.

   If possible you should place the module into a major ftp archive and
   include details of it's location in your announcement.

   TAKE NOTE: This section still under construction...
   ftp.cis.ufl.edu:/pub/perl/scripts
   ftp.metronet.com:/pub/perl/scripts
   ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/incoming (JACKS)
Modules are moved up to ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/
This repository is indefinitely open (but NOT permanently), and is
unlikely to be permitted to exceed approximately 15 MBytes.

   Some notes about ftp archives: Please use a long descriptive file
   name which includes the version number. Most incoming directories
   will not be readable/listable, i.e., you won't be able to see your
   file after uploading it. Send your email notification message as
   soon as possible after uploading else your file may get deleted
   automatically. Allow time for the file to be processed and/or
   check the file has been processed before announcing its location.


2.9 Take care when changing a released module.

   Always strive to remain compatible with previous released versions.
   Otherwise try to add a mechanism to revert to the old behaviour.



3) Guidelines for Converting Perl 4 Library Scripts into Modules
   -------------------------------------------------------------

3.1 There is no requirement to convert anything.

   If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Perl 4 library scripts should
   continue to work with no problems. You may need to make some minor
   changes (like escaping non-array @'s in double quoted strings) but
   there is no need to convert a .pl file into a Module for just that.

3.2 Consider the implications.

   All the perl applications which make use of the script will need to
   be changed (slightly) if the script is converted into a module.  Is
   it worth it unless you plan to make other changes at the same time?

3.3 Make the most of the opportunity.

   If you are going to convert the script to a module you can use the
   opportunity to redesign the interface. The 'Guidelines for Module
   Creation' above include many of the issues you should consider.

3.4 The pl2pm utility will get you started.

   This utility will read *.pl files (given as parameters) and write
   corresponding *.pm files. The pl2pm utilities does the following:
   - Adds the standard Module prologue lines
   - Converts package specifiers from ' to ::
   - Converts die(...) to croak(...)
   - Several other minor changes
   Being a mechanical process pl2pm is not bullet proof. The converted
   code will need careful checking, especially any package statements.
   Don't delete the original .pl file till the new .pm one works!


4) ! Guidelines for Reusing Application Code
   ---------------------------------------

4.1 Complete applications rarely belong in the Perl Module Library.

4.2 Many applications contain some perl code which could be reused.
    Help save the world! Share your code in a form that makes it easy
    to reuse.

4.3 Break-out the reusable code into one or more separate module files.

4.4 Take the opportunity to reconsider and redesign the interfaces.

4.5 In some cases the 'application' can then be reduced to a small
    fragment of code built ontop of the resuable modules. In these cases
    the application could invoked as:
         perl -e 'use Module::Name; method(@ARGV)' ...
    or   perl -MModule::Name ...


=======================================================================


              Part 2 - The Perl 5 Module List
              ===============================


The remainder of this document is divided up into sections. Each
section deals with a particular topic and lists all known modules
related to that topic.  Modules are only listed in one section so
check all sections that might related to your particular needs.

All the information corresponds to the latest updates I have received.
I don't record the version number or release dates of the listed
Modules. Nor do I record the locations of these Modules. Consult the
contact, try the usual perl archive sites or ask in comp.lang.perl.
Please do *not* ask me directly, I simply don't have the time. Sorry.


1) Module Listing Format

Each Module listing is very short. The main goal is to simply publish
the existence of the modules, or ideas for modules, and enough contact
information for you to find out more. Each listing includes some
characters which convey basic status information.

For example:

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-------------  ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Fcntl          Sdcf  Defines fcntl() constants (see File::Lock)   JHI

Where the 'DSLI' characters have the following meanings:

  D - Development Stage (no implied timescale!):
    i   - Idea, listed to gain consensus or as a placeholder
    c   - under construction but pre-alpha (not yet released)
    a/b - Alpha/Beta testing
    R   - Released
    M   - Mature (no rigourous definition)
    S   - Standard, supplied with Perl 5

  S - Support Level:
    m   - Mailing-list
    d   - Developer
    u   - Usenet newsgroup comp.lang.perl
    n   - None known, try comp.lang.perl

  L - Language Used:
    p   - Perl-only, no compiler needed, should be platform independent
    c   - C and perl, a C compiler will be needed
    +   - C++ and perl, a C++ compiler will be needed
    o   - perl and another language other than C or C++

  I - Interface Style
    f   - plain Functions, no references used
    r   - some use of unblessed References or ties
    O   - Object oriented using blessed references and/or inheritance

Where letters are missing they can usually be inferred from the
others.  For example 'i' implies 'id', 'S' implies 'Su'.

The Info column gives a contact reference 'tag'. Lookup this tag in the
"Information / Contact Reference Details" section in Pert 3 of this
document.  If no contact is given always try asking in comp.lang.perl.

Most Modules are nested in categories such as IPC::Open2 and IPC::Open3.
These are shown as 'IPC::' on one line then each module listed below
with a '::' prefix.

Ideas For Adoption

Modules listed as in the 'i' Development Stage with no contact
reference are ideas without an owner. Feel free to 'adopt' these but
please let me know so that I can update the list and thus inform anyone
else who might be interested. Adoption simply means that you either
intend to implement the module or would like to work closely with
anyone else who might want to implement it.

Similarly, if an idea that interests you has been adopted by someone
please contect them so you can share ideas.  Just because an idea has
been adopted does NOT imply that it's going to be implemented. Waiting
silently in the hope that the Module will appear one day is unlikely to
be fruitful!


_______________________________________________________________________

2) Perl Core Modules and Perl Language Extensions

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
CORE           Suc   Internal base class for native functions
UNIVERSAL      Suc   Internal universal base-class 
AutoLoader     Sup   Automatic perl module method loader
DynaLoader     Suc   Dynamic loader for shared libraries
Exporter       Sup   Implements default import method for modules
Carp           Sup   Throw exceptions outside current package
Config         Sup   Stores details of perl build configuration
English        Sup   Defines English names for special variables
strict         Sup   Controls averments (similar to pragmas)
integer        Sup   Controls float vs. integer arithmetic
less           Sup   Controls optimisations: 'use less memory;'
subs           Sup   "use subs qw(x y)" is short for "sub x; sub y;"
sigtrap        Sup   For trapping an abort and giving a traceback      +
TieHash        Sup   Base class for implementing tied hashes

Multithreading for Perl:

Plthread       i     Multithreading at Perl level (not O/S level) MICB


_______________________________________________________________________

3) Development Support

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
AutoSplit      Supf  Splits modules into files for AutoLoader
Benchmark      Supf  Easy way to time fragments of perl code
AddINC         adpf  Easy way to manipulate @INC via use          GBARR
DoWhatIWant    i     Does what you want without even asking

ExtUtils::
::MakeMaker    SupO  Writes Makefiles for extensions
::DynaGlue     i     Utilities/glue code for C<->Perl interfaces

Test::
::Harness      Sup   Executes perl-style tests

Devel::
::DProf        bdcf  Execution profiler (excellent)               DMR
::Peek         adcf  Interface to internal sv_dump and sv_peek    
::Debug        i     Function and class debugging support


_______________________________________________________________________

4) + Operating System Interfaces

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
POSIX          SupO  An interface to most (all?) of POSIX.1
Fcntl          bdcf  Defines fcntl() constants (see File::Lock)   JHI
Ioctl          adcf  Defines ioctl() constants                    KJALB +
Errno          i     Constants from <errno.h> EACCES, ENOENT etc  JHI

BSD::
::Remote       adpf  getrusage(), s/getrlimit(), s/getpriority()  JHI
::HostIdent    adpf  s/gethostname(), s/gethostid()               JHI

Sys::
::Hostname     Supf  Implements a portable hostname function
::Syslog       Supf  Provides same functionality as BSD syslog
::AlarmCall    Rupf  Timeout on any sub. Allows nested alarms     JACKS

SGI            adcf  SGI-specific system calls                    AMOSS +

MSDOS          adcf  MSDOS interface (interrupts, port I/O)       DMO   +


_______________________________________________________________________

5) ! Networking, Device Control (modems) and InterProcess Communication

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Socket         Sucf  Defines all socket-related constants

Net::
::Ping         Supf  Implements TCP/IP ping (currently only echo) PMQS
::IRC          i     Internet Relay Chat interface                MRG
::FTP          idpf  Implements File Transfer Protocol interface  GSPAF
::Telnet       i
::SOCKS        i     TCP/IP access through firewalls using SOCKS  WSCOT
::NIS          cdcO  Interface to Sun's NIS                       RIK
::NISPlus      cdcO  Interface to Sun's NIS+                      RIK

IPC::
::Open2        Supf
::Open3        Supf
::Chat2        ?     Out-of-service during refit!
::SysV         i     shared memory, semaphores, messages etc      JHI
::Mmap         adcf  Interface to Unix's mmap() shared memory     MICB

RPC::
::ONC          i     Open Network Computing (Sun) RPC interface        +
::DCE          i     Distributed Computing Environment (OSF) RPCs      +

Chat2          adpf  Basic port of chat2.pl (see also IPC::Chat2) GBARR

Proxy::        adpO  Transport-independent remote processing      MICB
::Tk           aucO  Tk transport class for Proxy (part of Tk)    MICB

ToolTalk       adcr  Interface to the ToolTalk messaging service  MARCP


_______________________________________________________________________

6) + Data Types and Data Type Utilities (see also Database Interfaces)

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Math::
::BigInt       SupO  Arbitrary size integer math package          MB
::BigFloat     ?
::BigRat       ?
::Complex      adpO  Complex number data type                     DNAD
::IEEE         i     Interface to ANSI/IEEE Std 754-1985 funcs
::Pari         adcf  Interface to the PARI library                ILYAZ

Array::
::Vec          idp   Implement array using vec()                  LWALL
::Substr       idp   Implement array using substr()               LWALL
::Virtual      idp   Implement array using a file                 LWALL

Set::
::Scalar       adpO  Implement Set of scalars (inc references)    JHI

Date::
::GetDate      adcf  Yacc based free-format date parser in C      TOMC
::GetDate      adpf  Byacc based free-format date parser in Perl  GBARR
::CTime        adpf  Updated ctime.pl with mods for timezones     GBARR
::Time         idpO  Lightweight normalised datetime data type    TPB
::Interval     idpO  Lightweight normalised interval data type    TPB

Time::
::Local        Supf  Implements timelocal() and timegm()
::Time         adcf  High resolution timers and time-of-day       JHI

Tie::
::SubstrHash   RdpO  Very compact hash stored in a string         LWALL +
::ShiftSplice  i     Defines shift et al in terms of splice       LWALL
::Mem          adcO  Bind perl variables to memory addresses      TPB
::Quick        i     Simple way to create ties                    TPB
::Watch        i     Uses Tie::Quick to watch a variable          TPB

Class::
::Behavior     adpf  General behavior methods for classes         JACKS
::Eroot        bdpO  Eternal Root - Object persistence            DMR
::Template     bdpr  Struct/member template builder               DMR

Stats::
::Basic        bdpO  Basic statistical methods                    JKAST +


_______________________________________________________________________

7) + Database Interfaces (see also Data Types)

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
DBI            amcO  Generic Database Interface (see DBD modules) DBPRL
DBD::
::Ingres       cmcO  Ingres Driver for DBI                        TPB
::Ingperl      cmpf  Ingperl emulation interface for DBD::Ingres  TPB +
::Oracle       amcO  Oracle Driver for DBI                        TPB !
::Oraperl      ampf  Oraperl emulation interface for DBD::Oracle  TPB +
::Msql         cdcO  Msql Driver for DBI                          ANDK
::DB2          cdcO  DB2 Driver for DBI                           MHM
::Sybase       idcO  Sybase Driver for DBI                        MEWP

Sybase::
::DBlib        adcO  Sybase DBlibrary interface                   MEWP
::Sybperl      adcf  sybperl 1.0xx compatibility module           MEWP
::CTlib        cdcO  Sybase CTlibrary intgerface                  MEWP

MSQL           adcf  Mini-SQL, a light weight SQL database        ANDK

Tied Hash File Interfaces:

NDBM_File      Suc   Tie interface to NDBM files
DB_File        Suc   Tie interface to DB files                    PMQS
GDBM_File      Suc   Tie interface to GDBM files
SDBM_File      Suc   Tie interface to SDBM files
ODBM_File      Suc   Tie interface to ODBM files
AnyDBM_File    Sup   Uses first available *_File module above
DBZ_File       iuc   Tie interface to dbz files.                  IANPX

AsciiDB        adp   Generic text database parsing                MICB
Stanza         adp   Text format database used by OSF and IBM     JHI

DTREE          cdcf  Interface to Faircom DTREE multikey isam db  JWAT


_______________________________________________________________________

8) ! User Interfaces (character and graphical)

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Term::
::Cap          Supf  Basic termcap: Tgetent, Tputs, Tgoto
::Info         adpf  Terminfo interface (currently just Tput)     KJALB
::Complete     Supf  Tab word completion using stty raw
::Readline     adc   GNU Readline, history and completion         KJALB
::Control      idpf  Basic curses-type screen controls (gotxy)    KJALB
::Read         cdcf  Terminal reading functions (getkey)          KJALB
::Pseudo       i     Pseudo terminal (pty) functions

Major X-Windows User Interface Tools:

Tk             bmcO  Object oriented version of Tk v4             TKML  !
Tk             adcO  (old) 'tkperl5' Tk widgets ala Tk/Tcl        MICB  !
Sx             adc   Simple Athena widget interface               FMC
Motif          cdcf  Simple Motif and Xt interface                ERICA
Wcl            i     Interface to the Wigit Creation Library      TOMH

Major Character User Interface Tools:

Curses         adcO  Character screen handling and windowing      WPS
Cws            i     Curses Windowing System (OO widgets etc.)    MICB


_______________________________________________________________________

9) ! Interfaces to / Emulations of Other Programming Languages

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Tcl            RdcO  Complete access to Tcl                       MICB
::Tk           RdcO  Complete access to Tk *via Tcl*              MICB

Language::
::Prolog       adpO  An implementation of Prolog                  JACKS


_______________________________________________________________________

10) File Names, File Systems, File Locking and File Handles

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
File::
::Basename     Supf  Return basename of a filename
::CheckTree    Supf  Check file/dir tree against a specification
::Find         Supf  Call func for every item in a directory tree
::Lock         adcf  File locking using flock() and lockf()       JHI
::KGlob        cdcf  Filename globing (ksh style)                 TYEMQ
::Attrib       idpO  Get/set file attributes (stat)               TYEMQ

Cwd            Supf  Current working directory functions
FileHandle     Sup   File handle manipulation functions


_______________________________________________________________________

11) Text Processing, Parsing and Searching

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Text::
::Abbrev       Supf  Builds hash of all possible abbreviations
::ParseWords   Supf  Parse strings containing shell-style quoting
::Soundex      Supf  Convert a string to a soundex value
::CPP          i     A C preprocessor work-alike (for perl -P)

Search::
::Dict         Supf  Search a dictionary ordered text file

SGML::
::Element      cdpO  Build a SGML element structure tree          LSTAF
::SP           cd+O  Interface to James Clark's Sp SGML parser    DFD


_______________________________________________________________________

12) + Option, Augument and Parameter Processing

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Getopt::
::Std          Supf  Implements basic getopt and getopts
::Long         Supf  Advanced option handling                     JV
::Gnu          adcf  GNU form of long option handling             WSCOT +

Usage          Rupr  Type and range checking on subroutine args   JACKS


_______________________________________________________________________

13) Internationalization and Locale

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
I18N::
::Collate      bdpr  Locale based comparisons                     JHI
::WideMulti    i     Wide and multibyte character string          JHI


_______________________________________________________________________

14) ! Security and Encryption

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
DES            adcf  Interface to DES encryption (libdes)         EAYNG
Des            adcf  Interface to DES encryption (libdes)         MICB
MD5                  Interface to MD5 message digest algorithm    NWINT
Kerberos       adcf  Interface to Kerberos IV authentication      MICB  !


_______________________________________________________________________

15) + World Wide Web, HTTP and CGI (see also Text Processing section)

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
CGI::
::Environ      cdp   Use environment variables from clients       MGH
::MakeForm     i     Form tools for interactive pages             MGH

WWW::
::HTTP         cdpO  Implement HyperText Transfer Protocol        LWWWP +
::URL          cdpf  Manipulate Uniform Resource Locators         LWWWP +
::Log          i     Parse Common Log File Format                       +
::Robots       i     Parse /robots.txt file                             +


_______________________________________________________________________

16) + Server and Daemon Utilities

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Server::             Hierarchy of generic server classes: 
::Configs::    adpO  Configuration classes for servers            JACKS +
::Initialize:: adpO  Initialization for all types of servers      JACKS +
::Echo::       adpO  Base classes for 'instant' servers           JACKS +
::Inet::       adpO  Internet servers and socket handling objects JACKS +
::FileQueue::  adpO  File (and mailbox) handling servers          JACKS +
::Mail::       adpO  Mail handling servers and functions          JACKS +


_______________________________________________________________________

17) + Miscellaneous Interfaces to Other Software Systems

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Mail::
::SMTP         i     Protocol support including expn
::RFC822       adpf  Functions for RFC822 address manipulations   GBARR
::MH           adcr  MH mail interface                            MRG
::Send         i     Simple interface for sending mail                  +

News::
::NNTPClient   adpO  Support for clients of NNTP servers          RVA

WAIS           Rdcf  Interface to the freeWAIS-sf libraries       ULPFR
GL             cdcf  SGI GL - An interface to SGI's GL library    AMOSS
Pcap           i     An interface for LBL's packet capture lib    AMOSS

Nexus          cdcO  Interface to Nexus (threads/ipc/processes)   RDO   +


=======================================================================


              Part 3 - Who's Who
              ==================


1) Information / Contact Reference Details (in alphabetical order)

  Ref    Contact Details
  -----  ------------------------------------------------------
  AMOSS  Amos Shapira <amoss@cs.huji.ac.il>
  ANDK   Andreas Koenig <k@otto.ww.TU-Berlin.DE>
  CLP    Usenet: comp.lang.perl, always a good place to enquire
  DBPRL  DBperl mailing list. <perldb-interest@vix.com>
  DFD    Dominic Dunlop <dominic@natcorp.ox.ac.uk>
  DMO    Darryl Okahata <darrylo@sr.hp.com>
  DMR    Dean Roehrich <roehrich@cray.com>
  DNAD   Dave Nadler <nadler@apphpp2>
  EAYNG  Eric Young <eay@mincom.oz.au>
  ERICA  Eric Arnold <Eric.Arnold@corp.sun.com>
  FMC    Frederic Chauveau <fmc@pasteur.fr>
  GBARR  Graham Barr <Graham.Barr@tiuk.ti.com>
  GSPAF  Gene Spafford <spaf@cs.purdue.edu>
  IANPX  Ian Phillipps <ian@pipex.net>
  ILYAZ  Ilya Zakharevich <ilya@math.ohio-state.edu>
  JACKS  Jack Shirazi <js@biu.icnet.uk>
  JHI    Jarkko Hietaniemi <Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi>
+ JKAST  Jason Kastner <jason@wagner.com>
  JV     Johan Vromans <jv@inter.NL.net>
  JWAT   John Watson <jwatson@cnj.digex.net>
  KJALB  Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
  LSTAF  Lennart Staflin <lenst@lysator.liu.se>
  LWALL  Larry Wall. Author of Perl. Busy man. <lwall@netlabs.com>
+ LWWWP  libwww-perl mailing list <libwww-perl@ics.UCI.EDU>
  MARCP  Marc Paquette <Marc.Paquette@crim.ca>
  MEWP   Michael Peppler <mpeppler@itf.ch>
  MGH    Marc Hedlund <march@europa.com>
  MHM    Mike Moran <mhm@austin.ibm.com>
  MICB   Malcolm Beattie <mbeattie@sable.ox.ac.uk>
  MRG    Matthew Green <mrg@mame.mu.oz.au>
  NI-S   Nick Ing-Simmons <nik@tiuk.ti.com>
  NWINT  Neil Winton <nwinton@axion.bt.co.uk>
  PMQS   Paul Marquess <pmarquess@bfsec.bt.co.uk>
+ RDO    Robert Olson <olson@mcs.anl.gov>
  RIK    Rik Harris <rik.harris@fulcrum.com.au>
  RVA    Rodger Anderson <rodger@boi.hp.com>
+ TKML   Tk Mailing list <ntk@franz.ww.tu-berlin.de>
  TOMC   Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
  TOMH   Tom Horsley <tom@ssd.csd.harris.com>
  TPB    Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
  TYEMQ  Tye McQueen <tye@metronet.com>
  ULPFR  Ulrich Pfeifer <pfeifer@woodstock.informatik.uni-dortmund.de>
  WPS    William Setzer <setzer@math.ncsu.edu>
  WSCOT  Wayne Scott <wscott@ichips.intel.com>
  
End.

From lwall@scalpel.netlabs.com Mon Mar 13 07:48:50 1995
Received: from netlabs.com (vaccine.netlabs.com) by metronet.com with SMTP id AA14878
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Mon, 13 Mar 1995 01:49:12 -0600
Return-Path: <lwall@scalpel.netlabs.com>
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	id AA18005; Sun, 12 Mar 95 23:48:50 PST
Message-Id: <9503130748.AA18005@scalpel>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Cc: perl5@scalpel.netlabs.com
Subject: 5.001
Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 23:48:50 -0800
From: Larry Wall <lwall@scalpel.netlabs.com>

Dear packrats,
  Please grab ftp://ftp.netlabs.com/pub/outgoing/perl5.0/perl5.001.{pat,tar}.gz
and advertize.  Thanks.

Larry

From mdb@cisco.com Mon Mar 13 08:59:27 1995
Received: from glare.cisco.com by metronet.com with SMTP id AA19948
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Mon, 13 Mar 1995 02:59:58 -0600
Return-Path: <mdb@cisco.com>
Received: from cisco.com (localhost.cisco.com [127.0.0.1]) by glare.cisco.com (8.6.8+c/CISCO.SERVER.1.1) with ESMTP id AAA00162; Mon, 13 Mar 1995 00:59:28 -0800
Message-Id: <199503130859.AAA00162@glare.cisco.com>
To: Larry Wall <lwall@scalpel.netlabs.com>, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        perl5-porters@nicoh.com
Subject: Re: 5.001 
In-Reply-To: Mail from Larry Wall <lwall@scalpel.netlabs.com> 
             dated Sun, 12 Mar 1995 23:48:50 PST
             <9503130748.AA18005@scalpel> 
Organization: cisco Systems Inc., San Jose, CA, USA
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 00:59:27 -0800
From: "Mark D. Baushke" <mdb@cisco.com>

Hi Folks,

I have picked up the perl 5.001 files and made them available in

	ftp://ftp.cisco.com/mdb/perl5/perl5.001.{pat,tar}.gz

md5 checksums:

    30afcf3a9e8a90e3bb1389c47a916832        perl5.001.pat.gz
    2d5001a17adf249756dfe6df3e464edf        perl5.001.tar.gz

    -rw-r--r--  1 root       368960 Mar 13 00:42 perl5.001.pat.gz
    -rw-r--r--  1 root      1130765 Mar 13 00:49 perl5.001.tar.gz

The ftp.cisco.com site has a fairly high bandwith pipe to the
Internet, so feel free to pick up the files from our site if you would
rather not overload the netlabs Internet connection.

	Enjoy!
	-- Mark

>To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
>Cc: perl5@scalpel.netlabs.com
>Subject: 5.001
>Date: Sun, 12 Mar 95 23:48:50 -0800
>From: Larry Wall <lwall@scalpel.netlabs.com>
>
>Dear packrats,
>  Please grab ftp://ftp.netlabs.com/pub/outgoing/perl5.0/perl5.001.{pat,tar}.gz
>and advertize.  Thanks.
>
>Larry

From henkp@cs.ruu.nl Mon Mar 13 09:19:58 1995
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Received: by relay.cs.ruu.nl id AA05475
  (5.67a/IDA-1.5 for perl-packrats@metronet.com); Mon, 13 Mar 1995 10:19:59 +0100
From: Henk Penning <henkp@cs.ruu.nl>
Message-Id: <199503130919.AA05475@relay.cs.ruu.nl>
Subject: Re: 5.001
To: lwall@scalpel.netlabs.com (Larry Wall)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 10:19:58 +0100 (MET)
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, perl5@scalpel.netlabs.com
In-Reply-To: <9503130748.AA18005@scalpel> from "Larry Wall" at Mar 12, 95 11:48:50 pm
X-Organization: Utrecht University, Department of Computer Science.
		phone: +31-30-531454, telefax: +31-30-513791
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Content-Length: 557       

Larry Wall writes:

| Dear packrats,
| Please grab ftp://ftp.netlabs.com/pub/outgoing/perl5.0/perl5.001.{pat,tar}.gz
| and advertize.  Thanks.

  In the Netherlands (Europe) :

  ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/perl5.0/perl5.001.{pat,tar}.gz

| Larry

-- 
Henk P. Penning, Dept of Computer Science, Utrecht University \__/  \__/  \
Padualaan 14, P.O. Box 80.089, 3508 TB Utrecht, The Netherlands. \__/  \__/
Telephone: +31-30-534106, fax: 513791, NIC-handle: HPP1 \__/  \__/  \__/  \
Maintainer of ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/NEWS.ANSWERS/  \__/  \__/  \__/  \__/

From Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com Mon Mar 13 10:05:53 1995
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 95 10:05:53 GMT
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To: lwall@scalpel.netlabs.com
Cc: perl5@scalpel.netlabs.com
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: 5.001 

In <9503130748.AA18005@scalpel>
On Sun, 12 Mar 95 23:48:50 -0800 
Larry Wall <lwall@scalpel.netlabs.com> writes:
> 
> Dear packrats,
>   Please grab ftp://ftp.netlabs.com/pub/outgoing/perl5.0/perl5.001.{pat,tar}.gz
> and advertize.  Thanks.
> 
> Larry

byacc/perly problem?

Run make depend now? [y] 
test -f perly.h || cp /dev/null perly.h
./makedepend
make[1]: Entering directory `/home/auspex20/free-sw/perl5/perl5.001'
Expect 109 shift/reduce and 1 reduce/reduce conflict
/usr/local/bin/byacc -d perly.y
/usr/local/bin/byacc: 109 shift/reduce conflicts, 1 reduce/reduce conflict.
sh  ./perly.fixer y.tab.c perly.c
cp: perly.c: Permission denied
Hmm...  Looks like a new-style context diff to me...
The text leading up to this was:
--------------------------
|*** perly.c.orig       Thu Feb  9 17:56:15 1995
|--- perly.c    Thu Feb  9 17:56:17 1995
--------------------------
Patching file perly.c using Plan A...
Reversed (or previously applied) patch detected!  Assume -R? [y] n
Apply anyway? [n] 
Hunk #1 ignored at 12.
Hunk #2 ignored at 1272.
Hunk #3 ignored at 1280.
Hunk #4 ignored at 1345.
Hunk #5 ignored at 1368.
Hunk #6 ignored at 1378.
Hunk #7 ignored at 1433.
Hunk #8 ignored at 1463.
Hunk #9 ignored at 1482.
Hunk #10 ignored at 1493.
Hunk #11 ignored at 2180.
Hunk #12 ignored at 2196.
Hunk #13 ignored at 2211.
13 out of 13 hunks ignored--saving rejects to perly.c.rej
done
mv y.tab.h perly.h
override protection 444 for perly.h? y
echo 'extern YYSTYPE yylval;' >>perly.h

From mdb@cisco.com Mon Mar 13 11:17:13 1995
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To: Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com
Cc: lwall@scalpel.netlabs.com, perl5@scalpel.netlabs.com,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: 5.001 
In-Reply-To: Mail from Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com 
             dated Mon, 13 Mar 1995 10:05:53 GMT
             <9503131005.AA23945@pluto> 
Organization: cisco Systems Inc., San Jose, CA, USA
Phone.......: (408) 526-7849 (Office); (415) 969-8328 (Home)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 03:17:13 -0800
From: "Mark D. Baushke" <mdb@cisco.com>

I had a slightly different problem. My version of byacc is apparently
not the same as Larry's so I got this error message:

	`sh  cflags libperl.a perly.o`  perly.c
		  CCCMD =  gcc -c -DDEBUGGING -g -O   
	perly.y:34: conflicting types for `YYSTYPE'
	perly.h:60: previous declaration of `YYSTYPE'
	y.tab.c:1361: conflicting types for `yylval'
	perly.h:62: previous declaration of `yylval'

	% cat -n perly.h | head -62 | tail -10
	    53	#define POSTDEC 309
	    54	#define ARROW 310
	    55	typedef union {
	    56	    I32	ival;
	    57	    char *pval;
	    58	    OP *opval;
	    59	    GV *gvval;
	    60	} YYSTYPE;
	    61	extern YYSTYPE yylval;
	    62	extern YYSTYPE yylval;
	% cat -n perly.y |head -36 | tail -10
	    27	%start prog
	    28	
	    29	%union {
	    30	    I32	ival;
	    31	    char *pval;
	    32	    OP *opval;
	    33	    GV *gvval;
	    34	}
	    35	
	    36	%token <ival> '{' ')'

Fetching copies of perly.{c,h} from ther perl5.001 distirbution and
doing a 'touch perly.{c,h}' was my workaround to the problem.

	-- Mark

From Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com Mon Mar 13 12:12:58 1995
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From: Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 95 12:12:58 GMT
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Cc: perl5@scalpel.netlabs.com
Cc: Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: 5.001 

If I move byacc so Configure can't find it there is one further nit:

ow you must run a make.
pluto 42% make
Dummy dependency for dumb parallel make
touch perly.h
touch: cannot touch perly.h: no write permission
make: *** [perly.h] Error 1
pluto 43% chmod +w perly.h

With that done builds and passes tests on Sun4.1.3 and Solaris2.3
with gcc-2.6.2.

Now for a Tk build...

From Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com Mon Mar 13 13:33:54 1995
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From: Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com
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Cc: perl5@scalpel.netlabs.com
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: 5.001 - Tk status 

In <9503130748.AA18005@scalpel>
On Sun, 12 Mar 95 23:48:50 -0800 
Larry Wall <lwall@scalpel.netlabs.com> writes:
> 
> Dear packrats,
>   Please grab ftp://ftp.netlabs.com/pub/outgoing/perl5.0/perl5.001.{pat,tar}.gz
> and advertize.  Thanks.
> 
> Larry

First 5.000 loadable .so binaries don't work - which is worth emphasizing.
I am going to re-build with /usr/local/lib/perl5.001 as library 
and re-install 5.000 in /usr/local/lib/perl5

* Needed to add 'flags' arg to hv_delete() calls 
  - perlguts.pod needs updating for this change.

* XSRETURNYES is now XSRETURN_YES, likewise XSRETURNNO and XERETURNUNDEF

* A total of 3 ambiguous {xxx} resolved as ... warnings to fix in .pm files

* basic_demo then runs.

* text_demo gives a SEGFAULT:

#0  av_fetch (av=0x4, key=0, lval=0) at av.c:107
107         if (SvRMAGICAL(av)) {
(gdb) #0  av_fetch (av=0x4, key=0, lval=0) at av.c:107
#1  0x1c464 in pad_findlex (name=0x88570 "@_", newoff=0, seq=495, 
    startcv=0x12ce30, cx_ix=5) at op.c:137
#2  0x1c750 in pad_findlex (name=0x88570 "@_", newoff=0, seq=657, 
    startcv=0x139044, cx_ix=6) at op.c:199
#3  0x1c84c in pad_findmy (name=0x88570 "@_") at op.c:228
#4  0xfdc0 in yylex () at toke.c:1940
#5  0x1a3e4 in yyparse () at y.tab.c:1431
#6  0x52f00 in doeval (gimme=0) at pp_ctl.c:1902
#7  0x53c5c in pp_entereval () at pp_ctl.c:2095
#8  0x30428 in run () at run.c:56
#9  0x3e70 in perl_call_sv (sv=0x91720, flags=6) at perl.c:717
#10 0x6340 in calllist (list=0x91780) at perl.c:1720
#11 0x2296c in newSUB (floor=60, op=0xa5808, block=0x5) at op.c:2811
#12 0x2095c in utilize (aver=1, id=0x9d888, arg=0x0) at op.c:2027
#13 0x1b174 in yyparse () at perly.y:264
#14 0x32e0 in perl_parse (sv_interp=0x88800, xsinit=0x2364 <xs_init>, argc=1, 
    argv=0xeffff48c, env=0xeffff494) at perl.c:429
#15 0x22f4 in main (argc=3, argv=0xeffff484, env=0xeffff494) at perlmain.c:30

Will now be a pause while I get working perl5.000n back to get users off
my back...


From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Mon Mar 13 13:50:05 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 15:50:05 +0200
Message-Id: <199503131350.PAA02146@delta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com, perl5@scalpel.netlabs.com
Subject: Re: 5.001
In-Reply-To: <199503130919.AA05475@relay.cs.ruu.nl>
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	<199503130919.AA05475@relay.cs.ruu.nl>
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Now also in FUNET, Finland, Europe:

ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/ports/perl5/perl5.001.{pat,tar}.gz

(Someone could collect all these announcements and send them to c.l.p?)

++jhi;

From john@WPI.EDU Mon Mar 13 14:45:50 1995
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From: John Stoffel <john@WPI.EDU>
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 09:45:50 -0500
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, perl5@scalpel.netlabs.com
Subject: Re: 5.001
In-Reply-To: <199503131350.PAA02146@delta.hut.fi>
References: <9503130748.AA18005@scalpel>
	<199503130919.AA05475@relay.cs.ruu.nl>
	<199503131350.PAA02146@delta.hut.fi>

>>>>> "Jarkko" == Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi> writes:

Jarkko> Now also in FUNET, Finland, Europe:

Jarkko> ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/ports/perl5/perl5.001.{pat,tar}.gz

Also at ftp.wpi.edu:/perl5/perl5.001.*

I didn't see an announcement on c.l.p, so I guess I'll post one now...

From spp@vx.com Mon Mar 13 14:42:45 1995
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From: spp@vx.com (Stephen Potter)
Message-Id: <9503130942.ZM10996@squid>
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 09:42:45 -0500
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UF has them... ftp.cis.ufl.edu:/pub/perl/src/5.0/perl5.001.{tar,pat}.gz

Steve
--
Stephen P Potter		spp@vx.com		Varimetrix Corporation
2350 Commerce Park Drive, Suite 4			    Palm Bay, FL 32905
(407) 676-3222 						  CAD/CAM/CAE/Software



From fmc@pasteur.fr Mon Mar 13 15:00:53 1995
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From: Frederic Chauveau <Frederic.Chauveau@pasteur.fr>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com, perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com
Subject: perl 5.001
X-Mailer: SxMail [Version: 1.8 exp (gamma)]


Also on ftp.pasteur.fr:/pub/perl/perl5.001.{tar,pat}.gz


							[fmc]

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Frederic Chauveau		     			       Institut Pasteur
fmc@pasteur.fr
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Paradise is exactly like where you are right now, only much, much better.
							   William S. Burroughs
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com Mon Mar 13 15:20:12 1995
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To: john@wpi.edu
Cc: perl5@scalpel.netlabs.com
Cc: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: 5.001 

In <199503131445.JAA19409@avante.WPI.EDU>
On Mon, 13 Mar 1995 09:45:50 -0500 
John Stoffel <john@WPI.EDU> writes:
> 
> >>>>> "Jarkko" == Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi> writes:
> 
> Jarkko> Now also in FUNET, Finland, Europe:
> 
> Jarkko> ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/ports/perl5/perl5.001.{pat,tar}.gz
> 
> Also at ftp.wpi.edu:/perl5/perl5.001.*
> 
> I didn't see an announcement on c.l.p, so I guess I'll post one now...

Is that wise - 5.001 seems a bit rough to me, it breaks just about
all our production scripts and I only just got my mail back by 
backing it out...

From wjm Mon Mar 13 15:18:58 1995
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From: wjm (Bill Middleton)
Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 09:18:58 -0600
In-Reply-To: John Stoffel <john@WPI.EDU>
       "Re: 5.001" (Mar 13,  9:45am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: perl-packrats
Subject: Re: 5.001
Cc: perl5@scalpel.netlabs.com




At ftp.metronet.com:/pub/perl/source and on the web page.

Bill


From wjm Tue Mar 14 05:42:36 1995
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Date: Mon, 13 Mar 1995 23:42:36 -0600
From: Bill Middleton <wjm>
Message-Id: <199503140542.AA27771@metronet.com>
To: silber@orfeo.Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: Re: please post size, SVR4 checksum, and ...  Re: perl5.001 released
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
In-Reply-To: <3k2bg1$6oo@engnews2.eng.sun.com>
References: <JOHN.95Mar13095152@avante.wpi.edu> <3k1r02$5ar@sink.pipex.net>
Organization: Texas Metronet, Internet for the Individual  214-705-2901 (info)
Cc: ian@pipex.net, perl-packrats

In article <3k2bg1$6oo@engnews2.eng.sun.com> you write:
>In article <3k1r02$5ar@sink.pipex.net> ian@pipex.net (Ian Phillipps) writes:
>>In article <JOHN.95Mar13095152@avante.wpi.edu>,
>>John Stoffel <john@avante.WPI.EDU> wrote:
>>
>>ftp://ftp.ws.pipex.com/world-s/home/ian/perl/perl5.001.{pat,tar}.gz
>>
>>Ian
>
>the files ftp'd from metronet:
>    368960 Mar 13 12:27 perl5.001.pat.gz
>    1130765 Mar 13 12:26 perl5.001.tar.gz
>

I double ck'd the metronet copy with netlabs, and all seems ok.

>I may have missed a note from the porters list or from Larry,
>but it might be good if Larry and the Porters would post the 
>official archive size and (svr4) checksum prior to (and in )release notice (????).
>
>( maybe some kind of digital signature or other authentication can be added?
> Perl is a pretty important tool,  and the default way to distribute it
> is via multiple ftp sites, so it seems that it would be good to strengthen
> the authentication side of the release process . (( i.e. anything released by
> the 'perl porters' group should have such authentication )) 
>)
>


I'm also cc'ing this to the packrats, as an issue that needs consideration.

Bill

From ian@pipex.net Tue Mar 14 09:54:56 1995
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From: ian@pipex.net (Ian Phillipps)
Date: Tue, 14 Mar 1995 09:54:56 +0000
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To: Bill Middleton <wjm@metronet.com>, silber@orfeo.Eng.Sun.COM
Subject: Re: please post size, SVR4 checksum, and ... Re: perl5.001 released
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com

Bill Middleton <wjm@metronet.com> wrote:

> >>ftp://ftp.ws.pipex.com/world-s/home/ian/perl/perl5.001.{pat,tar}.gz
> >>Ian
> >the files ftp'd from metronet:
> >    368960 Mar 13 12:27 perl5.001.pat.gz
> >    1130765 Mar 13 12:26 perl5.001.tar.gz

Mea culpa.  I gunzipped the *.pat file to look at it, and repacked it
(with gzip -9) before putting it back. Hence :

-rw-r--r--   1 ian      pipex     366170 Mar 13 16:07 perl5.001.pat.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 ian      pipex    1130765 Mar 13 16:07 perl5.001.tar.gz

The tar.gz file gunzips and tar tvf's without problems.
My copy of the uncompressed pat file has length 1540935 and sum 22513 3010.

> >I may have missed a note from the porters list or from Larry,
> >but it might be good if Larry and the Porters would post the 

Larry announced the availability to the porters list. Someone on the
porters list posted to c.l.p later in the day with a list of sites that
had announced mirroring by that stage - this didn't include us.

My files are unofficial, not supported by PIPEX, etc. etc.  I was
influenced by the fact that sunsite.doc.ic.ac.uk, the usual main UK
respository, is down for up(?)grade to Solaris 2.4 - and most sites
listed were *busy*.

> > Perl is a pretty important tool,  and the default way to distribute it
> > is via multiple ftp sites, so it seems that it would be good to strengthen
> > the authentication side of the release process . (( i.e. anything released by
> > the 'perl porters' group should have such authentication )) 

I agree.  (BTW I'm not on the "packrats" list)

Ian

From anno4000@w172zrz.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE Tue Mar 14 10:17:55 1995
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From: Anno Siegel <anno4000@w172zrz.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
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Cc: k@franz.ww.tu-berlin.de

...also at

ftp.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE in pub/unix/perl/perl5.001.{pat,tar}.gz

Anno

From iburrell@leland.Stanford.EDU Fri Mar 17 08:57:42 1995
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Subject: Thoughts on archives
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Fri, 17 Mar 1995 00:57:42 -0800 (PST)
From: Ian Burrell <iburrell@leland.stanford.edu>
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Hi guys --

I am interested in the discussions going on about organizing the
different Perl archive and creating a coordinated network.  I am will
try and offer my thoughts from what I know (which isn't much).  First,
does anyone have a list of all of the archive with Perl related
material and the maintainers.  Second, someone mentioned the ISO9660
directory format, what is that?

I think there are two different issues here.  The first is the
coordination of the different FTP sites and the relative directory
structure.  This is the question of what the canonical directories
will be, who is the source for what, who mirrors whom, etc.  I am not
going to talk about that since that probably can be worked out amongst
the archivers (I hope) and then different tasks could go to those want
to them.  One way to encourage it would get a name (something other
than CPAN) that could be affixed to make them "official Perl archives"
and publicize them widely.

More important is the question of scripts (and perl5 modules).  All of
this perl source is collecting, but isn't archived or indexed very
well, with each site having different scripts.  The problems for
scripts are larger because there are lots more of them (I counted
>1000 of them at ftp.cdrom.com) and more are always being added.
The problem calls out for automation and once done right, would
probably be easier to keep up.  This is very important, with the
proliferation of perl5 modules, most of which are hard to find.

Ok, here are my thoughts on the situation:

* There should be a index format for different headers.  This would
contain info about the script in a format close to mail/news.  Some
fields (like name: or description:) would be required while others
would be optional and added when needed.  Jared suggested having
unique identifiers which is something important.

* The index data should be parsable by perl scripts.  We are archiving
things written in a language perfectly suited to managing itself.
First, thing a script could do is create a partial index from existing
indices and the scripts themselves so the effort that has already gone
into organization wouldn't be lost.  Second, it could help the creator
and maintainers update the organization.  Third, more scripts could
use this information to generate Web pages, gopher indexes, etc.

* Some conventions would be needed.  Such as the form of filenames,
how submissions would be accepted, how postings to comp.lang.perl
would get in the archive.  Another is: what distinguishes scripts from
packages, modules, and larger programs.  Most important is probably
the directory division.  And their should be a distinction between
scripts to be run and used by people, modules or libraries for perl
programmers, examples that teach perl, and large programs or packages
that are implemented in perl.

* Whatever scheme is worked should be distributed.  No one person
should have to be absolute archiver and no one site should have to be
the main source.  

* Let the author or the submitter do most of the work.  They could add
the information, and the script would just need to be reviewed to be
added to the archive.  This fits in with letting automation do the
hard work.

* Finally, if done right, the archive could be independent of FTP.
Web, gopher, mail server would all be possible access points for the
archive.  Organize the scripts by function, subject, or type, not by
origin.  Also, some sites could specialize in certain branches, like
perl5 modules, WWW processing, PGP access, etc.

I would like any comments on what I said.  Also, if people are
interested, I will mail my "plan" for indexing and archiving the
scripts.  I will suggest a name for the script organization project:
PSP for Perl Script Project.  And I would be willing to help organize
scripts, especially come summer.  


 - Ian


-- 
== Ian Burrell =====================************************************
iburrell@leland.stanford.edu
Anything that begins well ends badly. Anything that begins badly ends worse.
************************************====================================

From mark@sunsite.oit.unc.edu Mon Apr  3 21:02:42 1995
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From: Mark <mark@sunsite.unc.edu>
Message-Id: <9504032102.AA23194@sunsite.oit.unc.edu>
Subject: linuxisms in perl5 install
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
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Hey guys,

Had to hand hold a guy today w/ installing on a linux system, seems
perl5 doesnt check for gawk so one has to ln -s /usr/bin/gawk /bin/awk
If this isnt done then Configure does all sorts of weird things. Also
if cc is used on linux it wont work. gcc is its native compiler. Might
be worth defaulting that in the setup.

Cheers,
Mark

From wjm  Wed Apr 12 01:02:04 1995
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From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 01:01:58 -0500
In-Reply-To: passion@garnet.msen.com (The Passion Network)
       "bad links in the pages" (Apr 11, 12:30pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: perl-packrats
Subject: Re: bad links in the pages

} Subject: bad links in the pages
} 
} Wjm...
} 
} You probably know... but out of kindness :)  ... your submit forms
} (submit comments i mean) is not working.  The processing script is not
} found by the server.  Also, the FTP structure has changed, and all the
} source links are bad :(  Plus, you might want to put a link to the 5.000
} source as well, since even Larry recommented waiting forthe 5.002 release

Yes, they switched servers here, to httpd.  I've tried to hurriedly
fix some links, but it's gonna take a big rework to make it look
like it did before, even.  I've been wanting to go to httpd for some
time, to get away from some of the gn aggravations, but not quite 
this suddenly. 

More fixes this week, and a rework after tax time.  




Bill

From wjm  Wed Apr 12 23:43:13 1995
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From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Wed, 12 Apr 1995 23:42:55 -0500
In-Reply-To: jason@wagner.com (Jason Kastner)
       "Re: Perl ftp directories" (Apr 12,  9:38pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: jason@wagner.com (Jason Kastner)
Subject: Re: Perl ftp directories
Cc: perl-packrats

On Apr 12,  9:38pm, Jason Kastner wrote:
} Subject: Re: Perl ftp directories
} Bill -
} 
} I just uploaded StatsBasic.tar.gz to /pub/perl/incoming. My
} thought is to keep that name and put it into either /pub/perl/library
} or /pub/perl/scripts/assorted. Thanks very much for your help
} and for allowing me to place this module on your archive.
} 
} Jason

Cool.  I'll put it wherever you say, but I think we're trying to
standardize on perl5 modules with C code in perl5/extensions, 
shall non-C-code modules got there too, packrats?   Or shall
we distinguish with a perl5/modules?

Also, I've a /pub/perl/scripts/math.and.stat.stuff, perhaps
easier to muck through than the assorted area.

Thanks,

Bill

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Thu Apr 13 22:06:17 1995
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> From: Bill Middleton <wjm@metronet.com>
> 
> On Apr 12,  9:38pm, Jason Kastner wrote:
> } Bill -
> } 
> } I just uploaded StatsBasic.tar.gz to /pub/perl/incoming. My
> } thought is to keep that name and put it into either /pub/perl/library
> } or /pub/perl/scripts/assorted. Thanks very much for your help
> } and for allowing me to place this module on your archive.
> } 
> } Jason
> 
> Cool.  I'll put it wherever you say, but I think we're trying to
> standardize on perl5 modules with C code in perl5/extensions, 
> shall non-C-code modules got there too, packrats?   Or shall
> we distinguish with a perl5/modules?
> 
That's a tricky one. On balance I think it's worth keeping them apart.

What's happening with packrats these days? It seems very quiet.

> Thanks,
> 
> Bill
> 
Regards,
Tim. 

From robotmp@itsa.ucsf.EDU Fri Apr 14 03:05:11 1995
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Date: Thu, 13 Apr 1995 20:05:11 -0700 (PDT)
From: Dale Roberts <robotmp@itsa.ucsf.EDU>
Subject: perl
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
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who are you guys, do ya know any locations for perl scripts, may I simply 
ask for directions like a rookie?  sure I searched the gopher space, 
found the listing for news, nothing there.  what is the address to 
subscribe to the mailing list?

yeah, I'm a rookie but not quite.  been playing with perl a while, guess 
I am hooked.  saved up stuff, creating an archive of macppp from usenet, 
have the odd feeling there is junk around we are missing.

you may respond to this address or try Dale.Roberts@ucop.edu  thanks.

From jehamby@user56.lightside.com Sat Apr 15 22:47:28 1995
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From: "Jake E. Hamby" <jehamby@lightside.com>
To: wjm@metronet.com
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Can't read new perl patch!
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The file /pub/perl/source/perl5.001.patch.1d doesn't have it's 
permissions set so people can download it!  Fortunately I was able to get 
a copy when the author E-Mailed it to the perl5-porters mailing list.  
Please fix the permissions anyway, though.  Thanks!

---Jake

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Sun Apr 16 00:03:01 1995
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To: The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@nicoh.com>,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com
Cc: jv@nl.net
Subject: Extension Repository
Reply-To: tchrist@perl.com
Date: Sat, 15 Apr 95 18:03:01 MDT
Message-Id: <8764.797990581@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

Recently I was looking around the net looking for
various extension modules and finding that I had quite 
a hard time *finding* them all.  I would appreciate it
if the people in the big public respositories could grab
this stuff.  These are in ftp://mox.perl.com//pub/perl/ext/

       Size Name
    ------- ----------------------
       1669 AddINC-1.0.tar.gz
      37463 Curses-5.001-a8.tar.gz
       1387 DBperl.README.gz
       1608 DES.announce
       6497 DProf.tar.gz
       6505 Date-GetDate-0.01a.tar.gz
      18127 EventDrivenServer-1.2.tar.gz
       5313 GL-0.2.tar.gz
      26424 GetDate.shar.gz
       5182 InitializeServer-1.0.tar.gz
       5398 MD5.gz
      11429 Mail-RFC822-0.02a.tar.gz
      13000 MathPari_a3.tar.gz
      11584 MsqlPerl5-a1.tar.gz
      36261 Net-ext-a5.tar.gz
       7611 Prolog-alpha.tar.gz
       3081 Safe-Perl-feb26.tar.gz
       4212 Socket-5.001d.tar.gz
       3366 StatsBasic.pm.announce
      87191 Sx-1.6.tar.gz
      21908 TermReadKey-1.96.tar.gz
    1691005 Tk-b3.tar.gz
      11102 Usage-beta.tar.gz
      17308 modules.list.gz

I also noticed that there weren't any of the 5.0 perlref out there.
You can get it from 

    ftp://mox.perl.com/pub/perl/doc/perlref-5.0.tar.gz

If there's something important I'm missing or have wrong, or if I don't
have the right versions, please tell me that too, ok?

It would be nice if at least most of the following sites would grab all
these in that I take them to be the principle perl ftp repositories:

    ftp.cis.ufl.edu
    ftp.cs.ruu.nl
    ftp.demon.co.uk
    ftp.funet.fi
    ftp.metronet.com
    ftp.netlabs.com
    sungear.mame.mu.oz.au

If anyone has access to prep.ai.mit.edu or ftp.uu.net, those would be
REALLY good to get updated, including with 5.001d.  Hm.. too bad 1d
does admit such, like

    perl.c: printf("\nThis is perl, version %s-1d\n\n",patchlevel);

If the first person to grab this stuff would tell the rest of us,
it would save my poor 28.8 slip line a lot of wear and tear. :-)
I don't want to be a well-known respository. :-(

--tom

From kjahds@kjahds.com Sun Apr 16 00:38:43 1995
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From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: tchrist@perl.com
Cc: The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com>,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com, jv@nl.net
Subject: Re: Extension Repository
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On Sat, 15 Apr 1995, Tom Christiansen wrote:

> Recently I was looking around the net looking for
> various extension modules and finding that I had quite 
> a hard time *finding* them all.  I would appreciate it
> if the people in the big public respositories could grab
> this stuff.  These are in ftp://mox.perl.com//pub/perl/ext/

Thank you, this solves a problem quite nicely. it should be much easier 
to keep track of the common (let alone "standard") modules if the 
depositors have some place standard to deposit them, and the repositors 
have can use this place to stock their repositories.

> [...]
> If the first person to grab this stuff would tell the rest of us,
> it would save my poor 28.8 slip line a lot of wear and tear. :-)
> I don't want to be a well-known respository. :-(

Perhaps some work is needed to formalize the public repositories, and set
of mirroring arrangements. 

> --tom

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Sun Apr 16 12:39:18 1995
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> Perhaps some work is needed to formalize the public repositories, and set
> of mirroring arrangements. 

I am already doing some part of that...about a month ago I pulled together
all the stuff from all the known Perl sites and started uniqueing and
sorting them.  Unfortunately real life tasks have intervened quite rudely...
but I'll try to find some time.

++jhi;

From henkp@cs.ruu.nl Sun Apr 16 21:12:27 1995
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Subject: Re: Extension Repository
To: tchrist@perl.com
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 23:12:27 +0200 (METDST)
Cc: perl5-porters@nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com, jv@nl.net
In-Reply-To: <8764.797990581@mox> from "Tom Christiansen" at Apr 15, 95 06:03:01 pm
X-Organization: Utrecht University, Department of Computer Science.
		phone: +31-30-531454, telefax: +31-30-513791
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Tom Christiansen writes:

| Recently I was looking around the net looking for
| various extension modules and finding that I had quite 
| a hard time *finding* them all.  I would appreciate it
| if the people in the big public respositories could grab
| this stuff.  [ ... ]

| If the first person to grab this stuff would tell the rest of us,
| it would save my poor 28.8 slip line a lot of wear and tear. :-)
| I don't want to be a well-known respository. :-(

  The extensions Tom has gathered are now also available
  on ftp.cs.ruu.nl in directory :

  ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/perl5.0/ext

| --tom

  Henk Penning

-- 
Henk P. Penning, Dept of Computer Science, Utrecht University \__/  \__/  \
Padualaan 14, P.O. Box 80.089, 3508 TB Utrecht, The Netherlands. \__/  \__/
Telephone: +31-30-534106, fax: 513791, NIC-handle: HPP1 \__/  \__/  \__/  \
Maintainer of ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/NEWS.ANSWERS/  \__/  \__/  \__/  \__/

From spp@vx.com Sun Apr 16 22:14:23 1995
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From: spp@vx.com (Stephen Potter)
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Date: Sun, 16 Apr 1995 18:14:23 -0400
In-Reply-To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
        "Extension Repository" (Apr 15,  6:03pm)
References: <8764.797990581@mox>
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On Apr 15,  6:03pm, Tom Christiansen wrote:
>

Save poor Tom's bandwidth.... ftp.cis.ufl.edu:/pub/perl/ext.

>     ftp://mox.perl.com/pub/perl/doc/perlref-5.0.tar.gz

Hmmm... is this the same as
ftp.cis.ufl.edu:/pub/perl/doc/perlref-5.000.0.tar.gz?  IE: Johann's ref
card?

>     perl.c: printf("\nThis is perl, version %s-1d\n\n",patchlevel);
>-- End of excerpt from Tom Christiansen

Would it be unacceptible for each of the patches to modify patchlevel.h to
return 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, etc?

Steve

--
Stephen P Potter		spp@vx.com		Varimetrix Corporation
2350 Commerce Park Drive, Suite 4			    Palm Bay, FL 32905
(407) 676-3222 						  CAD/CAM/CAE/Software



From tchrist@mox.perl.com Sun Apr 16 22:31:22 1995
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To: spp@vx.com (Stephen Potter)
Cc: perl5-porters@isu.edu, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: Extension Repository 
In-Reply-To: Stephen Potter's message <9504161814.ZM11601@squid> of Sun, 16 Apr 95 18:14:23 EDT.
References: <8764.797990581@mox> <9504161814.ZM11601@squid> 
Date: Sun, 16 Apr 95 16:31:22 MDT
Message-Id: <29150.798071482@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

> Save poor Tom's bandwidth.... ftp.cis.ufl.edu:/pub/perl/ext.

Hurray.

> >     ftp://mox.perl.com/pub/perl/doc/perlref-5.0.tar.gz

> Hmmm... is this the same as
> ftp.cis.ufl.edu:/pub/perl/doc/perlref-5.000.0.tar.gz?  IE: Johann's ref
> card?

Yes.

> >     perl.c: printf("\nThis is perl, version %s-1d\n\n",patchlevel);
> >-- End of excerpt from Tom Christiansen

> Would it be unacceptible for each of the patches to modify patchlevel.h to
> return 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, etc?

Um, patchlevel (as you can see) is an int.   We're at release
5, patchlevel 1.  There's no place to record 1a, etc.

--tom

From kjahds@kjahds.com Mon Apr 17 10:24:15 1995
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From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Cc: Stephen Potter <spp@vx.com>, perl5-porters@ux1.isu.edu,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: Extension Repository 
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On Sun, 16 Apr 1995, Tom Christiansen wrote:

> > Save poor Tom's bandwidth.... ftp.cis.ufl.edu:/pub/perl/ext.
> 
> Hurray.

Great. I assume you'll be accepting uploads, as well?

> > >     ftp://mox.perl.com/pub/perl/doc/perlref-5.0.tar.gz
> 
> > Hmmm... is this the same as
> > ftp.cis.ufl.edu:/pub/perl/doc/perlref-5.000.0.tar.gz?  IE: Johann's ref
> > card?
> 
> Yes.
> 
> > >     perl.c: printf("\nThis is perl, version %s-1d\n\n",patchlevel);
> > >-- End of excerpt from Tom Christiansen
> 
> > Would it be unacceptible for each of the patches to modify patchlevel.h to
> > return 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, etc?
> 
> Um, patchlevel (as you can see) is an int.   We're at release
> 5, patchlevel 1.  There's no place to record 1a, etc.

Well, to be frank, there should be. There is major enough difference
between 1, 1a, and 1d (let alone 0 and 0h) that this should be recorded
somewhere. 

> --tom

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)



From k@franz.ww.tu-berlin.de Mon Apr 17 10:08:48 1995
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Date: Mon, 17 Apr 95 12:08:48 +0200
From: Andreas Koenig <k@franz.ww.tu-berlin.de>
Message-Id: <9504171008.AA13431@leonardo.mind.de>
To: tchrist@perl.com
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <8764.797990581@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Sat, 15 Apr 95 18:03:01 MDT)
Subject: Re: Extension Repository
Reply-To: koen1820@otto.ww.tu-berlin.de

   From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
   
   Recently I was looking around the net looking for
   various extension modules and finding that I had quite 
   a hard time *finding* them all.  I would appreciate it
   if the people in the big public respositories could grab
   this stuff.  These are in ftp://mox.perl.com//pub/perl/ext/

Thanks, Tom, but let me please correct you wrt to my own module:
   
         11584 MsqlPerl5-a1.tar.gz

Should be MsqlPerl-a3.tar.gz. Home is

    ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/pub/perl/

Please delete your version. A lot of people came recently with questions
about a1 :(

--------

More in general I want to ask the packrats what they think about the
following suggestion:

Shouldn't we have one MASTER site for modules, that

- gives each author of a module write access to a small HEADER.html
  file on the master via a cgi/forms script.

- has a directory structure reflecting the one of the modules. Each
  author's HEADER.html file is a symlink to the HEADER.html of all of
  his modules. The author is kindly asked to keep the HEADER.html
  up-to-date. The file shouldn't contain anything but html-link
  information of where to get the stuff.

- has a relatively secret life, but the docs are mirrored to all the
  big sites. As the informations provided by the authors could be kept
  below 1000 bytes each, there wouldn't be much to be mirrored.

I have written 33% of the programs needed, starting with a Module List
parser. The driving parameter for my programs is Tim's module list,
and that should most probably stay so.

Provided the idea is accepted by the authors, there could be written
additional scripts that follow all the links in the HEADER.html files
and mirror the modules themselves.

What you think? Should I continue writing? Is there such a beast already?

Regards,
andreas

From mhm@austin.ibm.com Mon Apr 17 13:11:10 1995
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From: mhm@austin.ibm.com
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To: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
Cc: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>, Stephen Potter <spp@vx.com>,
        perl5-porters@ux1.isu.edu, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Unoffical patchlevels -- was Re: Extension Repository 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Mon, 17 Apr 95 06:24:15 D.
             <Pine.LNX.3.90.950417062224.208A-100000@kjahds.com> 
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 95 07:11:10 -0600


Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>  writes:
|> > 
|> > > >     perl.c: printf("\nThis is perl, version %s-1d\n\n",patchlevel);
|> > > >-- End of excerpt from Tom Christiansen

In perl5.001 the line is:
    printf("\nThis is perl, version %s\n\n",patchlevel);

|> > > Would it be unacceptible for each of the patches to modify patchlevel.h
|> > > to return 1a, 1b, 1c, 1d, etc?
|> > 
|> > Um, patchlevel (as you can see) is an int.   We're at release
|> > 5, patchlevel 1.  There's no place to record 1a, etc.
|> 
|> Well, to be frank, there should be. There is major enough difference
|> between 1, 1a, and 1d (let alone 0 and 0h) that this should be recorded
|> somewhere. 
|> 
Rather than the following:

    perl.c:  sprintf(patchlevel, "%5.3f", 5.0 + (PATCHLEVEL / 1000.0));

How about something like:

patchlevel.h:
    #define PATCHLEVEL 1
    #define UNOFFICIAL	1d		/* Pick some meaningful define name */

perl.c:
    #ifdef UNOFFICIAL
    sprintf(patchlevel, "%5.3f-%s", 5.0 + (PATCHLEVEL / 1000.0),UNOFFICIAL);
    #else
    sprintf(patchlevel, "%5.3f", 5.0 + (PATCHLEVEL / 1000.0));
    #endif

Of course, if it is decided to format patchlevel as "%5.3f %s" then by
always defining UNOFFICAL to be a string, the #ifdef in perl.c could
be avoided all together.

Mike

From jv@NL.net Mon Apr 17 08:30:36 1995
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From: jv@NL.net (Johan Vromans)
To: tchrist@perl.com
Cc: The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@nicoh.com>,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: Extension Repository
References: <8764.797990581@mox>
Reply-To: Johan.Vromans@NL.net
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[Quoting Tom Christiansen, on April 15 1995, 18:03, in "Extension Repository"]
> I also noticed that there weren't any of the 5.0 perlref out there.
> You can get it from 
> 
>     ftp://mox.perl.com/pub/perl/doc/perlref-5.0.tar.gz

The official site for the Reference Guide is ftp.NL.net, directory
pub/programming/languages/perl, file perlref-5.000.0.tar.gz.

It is also available from prep.gnu.ai.mit.edu and its mirrors,
directory pub/gnu, same filename.

-- Johan

From spp@vx.com Mon Apr 17 15:01:06 1995
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From: spp@vx.com (Stephen Potter)
Message-Id: <9504171101.ZM27431@squid>
Date: Mon, 17 Apr 1995 11:01:06 -0400
In-Reply-To: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
        "Re: Extension Repository" (Apr 17,  6:24am)
References: <Pine.LNX.3.90.950417062224.208A-100000@kjahds.com>
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To: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
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On Apr 17,  6:24am, Kenneth Albanowski wrote:
> > > Save poor Tom's bandwidth.... ftp.cis.ufl.edu:/pub/perl/ext.
> >
> > Hurray.
>
> Great. I assume you'll be accepting uploads, as well?

Sure... if you place something in pub/incoming, I'll move it into the ext
directory.  Just send me mail with the exact filename.  Like all security
conscious sites, incoming is unreadable except to a certain group which I
am no longer a part of, since I'm no longer at UF.

> Well, to be frank, there should be. There is major enough difference
> between 1, 1a, and 1d (let alone 0 and 0h) that this should be recorded
> somewhere.

*** perl5.001d/patchlevel.h     Sun Mar 12 22:29:12 1995
--- perl5.001d+/patchlevel.h    Sun Apr 16 20:38:59 1995
***************
*** 1 ****
--- 1,2 ----
  #define PATCHLEVEL 1
+ #define DEVPATCH  "d"

*** perl5.001d/perl.c   Mon Apr 10 13:14:53 1995
--- perl5.001d+/perl.c  Sun Apr 16 20:38:46 1995
***************
*** 62,67 ****
--- 62,68 ----
  perl_construct( sv_interp )
  register PerlInterpreter *sv_interp;
  {
+
      if (!(curinterp = sv_interp))
        return;

***************
*** 995,1001 ****
--- 996,1006 ----
        s++;
        return s;
      case 'v':
+ #ifdef DEVPATCH
+       printf("\nThis is perl, version %s, development patch
%s\n\n",patchlevel, DEVPATCH);
+ #else
        printf("\nThis is perl, version %s\n\n", patchlevel);
+ #endif
        fputs("\nCopyright 1987-1994, Larry Wall\n",stdout);
  #ifdef MSDOS
        fputs("MS-DOS port Copyright (c) 1989, 1990, Diomidis Spinellis\n",

There are two other places where perl might return it's version number, but
they are only in SUID situations, and probably aren't worth modifying.

Steve

--
Stephen P Potter		spp@vx.com		Varimetrix Corporation
2350 Commerce Park Drive, Suite 4			    Palm Bay, FL 32905
(407) 676-3222 						  CAD/CAM/CAE/Software



From k@franz.ww.tu-berlin.de Tue Apr 18 18:30:12 1995
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Date: Tue, 18 Apr 95 20:30:12 +0200
From: Andreas Koenig <k@franz.ww.tu-berlin.de>
Message-Id: <9504181830.AA16491@leonardo.mind.de>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Modules Master Server
Reply-To: koen1820@otto.ww.tu-berlin.de

Apologies, if this is a duplicate for you. I idn't get the mail back
from packrats, but that may be due to my unstable network environment
(will be solved RSN.


--------

I want to ask the packrats what they think about the
following suggestion:

Shouldn't we have one MASTER site for modules, that

- gives each author of a module write access to a small HEADER.html
  file on the master via a cgi/forms script.

- has a directory structure reflecting the one of the modules. Each
  author's HEADER.html file is a symlink to the HEADER.html of all of
  his modules. The author is kindly asked to keep the HEADER.html
  up-to-date. The file shouldn't contain anything but html-link
  information of where to get the stuff.

- has a relatively secret life, but the docs are mirrored to all the
  big sites. As the informations provided by the authors could be kept
  below 1000 bytes each, there wouldn't be much to be mirrored.

I have written 33% of the programs needed, starting with a Module List
parser. The driving parameter for my programs is Tim's module list,
and that should most probably stay so.

Provided the idea is accepted by the authors, there could be written
additional scripts that follow all the links in the HEADER.html files
and mirror the modules themselves.

What you think? Should I continue writing? Is there such a beast already?

Regards,
andreas


From wjm  Sun Apr 23 12:16:48 1995
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From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 12:16:30 -0500
In-Reply-To: Andreas Koenig <k@franz.ww.tu-berlin.de>
       "Modules Master Server" (Apr 18,  8:30pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: koen1820@otto.ww.tu-berlin.de
Subject: Re: Modules Master Server
Cc: perl-packrats, perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com

On Apr 18,  8:30pm, Andreas Koenig wrote:
} Subject: Modules Master Server
} 
} I want to ask the packrats what they think about the
} following suggestion:
} 
} Shouldn't we have one MASTER site for modules, that
o

I dunno.  It seems like folks have different preferences for where
they want to have their master copy reside.  William Setzer's
Curses package, for instance, is always mastered at ftp.ncsu.edu.
However, this is causing problems...  packrats please note, if
you don't the the perl5-porters list:

William Setzer wrote:
>> Somehow, a file called "Curses-5.001-a8.tar.gz" exists on
>> ftp.cis.ufl.edu among perl's "ext" stuff.  I think this version came
>> from perl.com, and may have propagated to other sites.  This version
>> is *not* Curses, alpha 8.  It's the third or earlier revision, back
>> when the distribution was called cursperl.
>> 
>> *Please* delete this file.  If you would like to replace it, the
>> newest version is:
>> 
>>   ftp://ftp.ncsu.edu/pub/math/wsetzer/Curses-a8.tar.gz
>> 
>> or I can mail you a uuencoded copy.  (It does require perl5.001, so
>> Curses-5.001-a8.tar.gz might not be a bad name.)  Thanks.
 
So, something definitely needs to be done.

} - gives each author of a module write access to a small HEADER.html
}   file on the master via a cgi/forms script.

This would be good.  But how would write access be allowed thru  ftp
connections?  I think authors should just put their html in the
master directory, where ever it may live.

 
} What you think? Should I continue writing? Is there such a beast already?

I think it'd be great, if you could get all the authors to agree and 
cooperate.  However, a package file for mirror with all the 
(currently diverse) master sites would be a better short-term 
solution.A  Anyone started on this yet?  If not, I'm gonna
try to hack it up tonight, using the perl5/modules/package/* and
perl5/extensions/extension/* syntax.

Bill


From spp@vx.com Mon Apr 24 00:26:56 1995
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From: spp@vx.com (Stephen Potter)
Message-Id: <9504232026.ZM7701@squid>
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:26:56 -0400
In-Reply-To: setzer@guest3.math.ncsu.edu (William Setzer)
        "Archive maintainers, please read" (Apr 23,  1:35am)
References: <9504230535.AA15010@guest3.math.ncsu.edu>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail)
To: setzer@guest3.math.ncsu.edu (William Setzer)
Subject: Re: Archive maintainers, please read
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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On Apr 23,  1:35am, William Setzer wrote:
> Subject: Archive maintainers, please read
> Somehow, a file called "Curses-5.001-a8.tar.gz" exists on
> ftp.cis.ufl.edu among perl's "ext" stuff.  I think this version came
> from perl.com, and may have propagated to other sites.  This version
> is *not* Curses, alpha 8.  It's the third or earlier revision, back
> when the distribution was called cursperl.
>
> *Please* delete this file.  If you would like to replace it, the
> newest version is:
>
>   ftp://ftp.ncsu.edu/pub/math/wsetzer/Curses-a8.tar.gz

William,
I've deleted the copy from UF and gotten your newest version.  In future,
these messages might better go to perl-packrats@metronet.com (a mailng list
for perl archive maintainers) than perl5-porters.

Steve

--
Stephen P Potter		spp@vx.com		Varimetrix Corporation
2350 Commerce Park Drive, Suite 4			    Palm Bay, FL 32905
(407) 676-3222 						  CAD/CAM/CAE/Software



From spp@vx.com Mon Apr 24 00:35:35 1995
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From: spp@vx.com (Stephen Potter)
Message-Id: <9504232035.ZM7771@squid>
Date: Sun, 23 Apr 1995 20:35:35 -0400
In-Reply-To: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
        "Re: Modules Master Server" (Apr 23, 12:16pm)
References: <199504231716.AA23653@metronet.com>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail)
To: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Subject: Re: Modules Master Server
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
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On Apr 23, 12:16pm, Bill Middleton wrote:
> } Shouldn't we have one MASTER site for modules, that
>
> I dunno.  It seems like folks have different preferences for where
> they want to have their master copy reside.  William Setzer's
> Curses package, for instance, is always mastered at ftp.ncsu.edu.

How's this for a suggestion (if Tom will go for it):  We make his site the
master site.  He could set up small accounts for people to use for putting
their stuff up, or just put it up in the incoming and he could move it
around, and then have one of the major sites (like metronet, or UF) pick it
up from there and everyone else pick up from that site.

The reason I suggest this is that perl.com is Tom's property, whereas the
other major sites are run by employees (or ex-employees) of that particular
site.  Tom can set policy for allowing people to have account on his
machine, if he wants, which most of the rest of us probably aren't in a
position to do, it's his machine that he works on most everyday, so we know
it will be well taken care of (unlike something like UF where I can only
get to it occassionally).

Of course, Tom may not like this idea... if so, give me a month or so and
maybe I'll set up my own site.  I may be changing jobs and moving to DC
soon, so my life might be in flux soon.  BTW: Pencom's System
Administration Division is flying my to their Corp offices in Austin, TX
next weekend for an interview... wish me luck.


Steve

--
Stephen P Potter		spp@vx.com		Varimetrix Corporation
2350 Commerce Park Drive, Suite 4			    Palm Bay, FL 32905
(407) 676-3222 						  CAD/CAM/CAE/Software



From spider@Orb.Nashua.NH.US Tue Apr 25 06:19:13 1995
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In-Reply-To: wjm@fohnix.metronet.com's message of 24 Apr 1995 09:45:35 -0500
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: Should I still wait for 5.002 to do Tk? (Was:Re: Perl 5.002??)
Mime-Version: 1.0
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From: Spider Boardman <spider@Orb.Nashua.NH.US>

The extension Net-ext-a5 is out of date.  Please pick up Net-ext-a6.

	ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz

So far, that directory is where the latest winds up.

Thanks,
	--spider

From koenig@franz.ww.TU-Berlin.DE Sat Apr 29 05:47:16 1995
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Date: Sat, 29 Apr 95 07:47:16 +0200
From: koenig@franz.ww.tu-berlin.de (Andreas Koenig)
Message-Id: <9504290547.AA10562@franz.ww.TU-Berlin.DE>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: Modules Master Server

From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
    } - gives each author of a module write access to a small HEADER.html
    }   file on the master via a cgi/forms script.

    This would be good.  But how would write access be allowed thru  ftp
    connections?  I think authors should just put their html in the
    master directory, where ever it may live.

Here's my first cut at it:

    http://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/ModuleList

Klick on "write access" and you come into the protected area. I have
mailed username and password to all module writers on Tim's list
(except for the mailing lists). If you are not a module writer, try to
identify yourself as WM with password WM. You can update the fields in
the database, you can even update the password, but that would not be
fair to do so :)

Currently the whole directory tree below ModuleList is in

    ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin/pub/perl/ModuleList-html-950428.tar.gz

It is 26k, and we should find a way to distribute the database itself
instead of the directory tree. Suggestions welcome.

Please do not propagate the existence of this server to the big
audience. franz is a weak machine and has enough troubles to serve the
Tk mailing list. We'll see, where this service ends up, probably
somewhere else.

To make my intention clear: I cannot mirror the modules, nor do I want
to hold READMEs. I just want to have the URLs in a central
database. The design of the directory tree allows the maintainers of
the big sites to put the modules themselves into place without
changing a single document. I don't know, how this works with
different servers. I'm using NCSA and exploiting the capability of
FancyIndexing directories. Authors do have an index.html file and
Modules have a HEADER.html and a README.html. That means, between the
header and the readme files you see the actual contents of the
directory (if fancyindexing is on).

Let me know, what you think about it,

andreas



From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Thu May  4 20:18:06 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: New large managed archive
Date: Thu, 4 May 1995 21:18:06 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9505042118.aa19678@post.demon.co.uk>

Hi pack-rats

You may be aware that I manage the DBperl archive

	ftp.demon.co.uk:/pub/perl/db

The actual machine belongs to our internet service provider, Demon.
They allow me to manage that subdirectory tree via a 'quote site exec'
escape mechanism in their ftp server.

The rest of the archive is managed by full-time Demon staff as a
service to their customers.

I have recently been talking to the archive administrator and he is
happy to accept deposits of perl modules (etc) into /incoming and
move them into the /pub/perl tree.

Great.

Now before I announce this fact to the world I'd like to solicit
some ideas about the best directory structure to recommend be setup.

Suggestions?

Regards,
Tim.

From RUSSELLS@teleng1.tait.co.nz Fri May  5 00:34:10 1995
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Date: Fri, 05 May 1995 11:34:10 +1100
From: Russell Smiley <RUSSELLS@teleng1.tait.co.nz>
Subject: patch installation
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Reply-To: russells@teleng1.tait.co.nz
Message-Id: <8D9AA74A3@teleng1.tait.co.nz>
Organization: Tait Electronics Ltd.
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Priority: normal

I have downloaded perl5.001 and its associated patches, but there 
doesn't seem to be any documentation on how to install the patches. 
Could you answer this query for me please.

Thanks for your help.

Russell.

+===
| Russell Smiley
  RUSSELLS@teleng1.tait.co.nz
  Tait Electronics Ltd.
  Christchurch.
  Ph:  64-3-358-3399
  Fax: 64-3-358-0423

From rodger@hpbs2245.boi.hp.com Sun May  7 20:26:32 1995
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To: perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Is NNTPClient ready for comp.lang.perl?
Date: Sun, 07 May 1995 14:26:32 -0600
From: Rodger Anderson <rodger@hpbs2245.boi.hp.com>

Folks;

For those that have never heard of NNTPClient, it is a perl5 module
implementing an RFC977 client.  See the end of the message for
instructions for retrieval.

I think I'm about ready to post NNTPClient.pm to comp.lang.perl.  Does
anyone have comments before I do so?

I would guess that posting it to the news group would indicate a move
from alpha stage to beta stage?

Here is a list of the latest changes:

* host() and port() methods return the current host and port when
  called with no arguments.  Moved default calculations (NNTPSERVER
  env, etc) to new() method.

* Changed all debug statements to warn instead of print, so messages
  go to stderr instead of stdout.

* Changed debug() method to a three level value.  Now print any server
  errors received at debug level 1 (default).  Use debug level 0 to
  turn this off and debug level 2 to print additional status messages.
  Calling the debug() method without arguments returns level without
  changing it.

* Added methods for NNTP commands xpat, date, listgroup.

* Fixed authinfo command.  (Now that I know what it does.)

* Fixed xthread command to return binary data as a single scalar.

* Modified how the return command is determined and executed.  This
  should make it easier to set up a command queuing module.

If you want the latest version of NNTPClient.pm, send me mail with the
very beginning of the body set to "send nntpclient".  I will still
read the message, but a procmail-bot will send the module to you
immediately.

I have not yet posted it to any FTP site because I'm behind a firewall
and I don't want to be bugging someone else to move it everytime I
make an update.

Rodger Anderson

From spp@vx.com Tue May  9 14:39:58 1995
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From: spp@vx.com (Stephen Potter)
Message-Id: <9505091039.ZM29703@www.vx.com>
Date: Tue, 9 May 1995 10:39:58 -0400
In-Reply-To: Graham.Barr@tiuk.ti.com
        "AddINC-1.1.tar.Z" (May  9,  1:57pm)
References: <9505091257.AA13411@getafix>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.1.0 22feb94 MediaMail)
To: Graham.Barr@tiuk.ti.com
Subject: Re: AddINC-1.1.tar.Z
Cc: perl5-porters@isu.edu, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Mime-Version: 1.0

On May 9,  1:57pm, Graham.Barr@tiuk.ti.com wrote:
>
> ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/incoming/AddINC-1.1.tar.Z
>
> Jack - please move to perlmods and annouce to perl5-porters when it
> is there.
>

This is going to sound like kind of a strange request, but can module
writers CC the packrats list (perl-packrats@metronet.com) when they
announce new modules?  My packrats mail goes to a different account, one
that is directly net connected so I can work with that information.

Thanks,
Steve
--
Stephen P Potter		spp@vx.com		Varimetrix Corporation
2350 Commerce Park Drive, Suite 4			    Palm Bay, FL 32905
(407) 676-3222 						  CAD/CAM/CAE/Software



From jander@panix.com Wed May 10 22:33:00 1995
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From: Jim Anderson <jander@panix.com>
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com

subscribe

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Thu May 11 07:53:42 1995
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To: Jim Anderson <jander@panix.com>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Subjectless message <199505102233.SAA21843@panix.com> 
In-Reply-To: Jim Anderson's message <199505102233.SAA21843@panix.com> of Wed, 10 May 95 18:33:00 EDT.
References: <199505102233.SAA21843@panix.com> 
Date: Thu, 11 May 95 01:53:42 MDT
Message-Id: <11353.800178822@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

> subscribe
> unsubscribe perl5-porters jon.wright@citibank.com.au

For crying out load, can't anyone fix majordomo so these darn
upsubscribe requests don't go to the whole list?

Oh good.  Another one.  Here's  what I just wrote:

    It may be unkind to intercept such messages, but it should be
    feasible.  Is it?  I don't have the current mailing list address or
    maintainer address for majordomo, but surely someone on this list
    does and can past them on.

thanks,


--tom

From Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com Fri May 12 08:52:25 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Tk-b4 - where to put?


With John away can one of you tell me procedure for dropping 
Tk-b4 release on your site.

One 'near' ti.com net contact in Dallas USA preferably.

From john@WPI.EDU Fri May 12 15:45:32 1995
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Message-Id: <199505121545.LAA15570@avante.WPI.EDU>
To: ptk@WPI.EDU
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Tk-b4 now available


Tk-b4 has been put up for ftp on ftp.wpi.edu:/perl5/Tk-b4.tar.gz as
usual.  See the README file for details of what's on the site.

Now a word from Nick:

Once again I drop it on you and go on vacation!

Changes in b4

* An 'experimental' release which attempts to minimize startup time
  and memory use by AutoLoading and Dynamicaly loading as much as possible.
  As such it may be seriously damaged on machines which don't support dynamic
  loading - such machines should probably stick to Tk-b3.
  Needs a patch (supplied) to perl5.001e to make auto-loaded methods work.

* A few fixes from Stephen Lidie to demos (Thanks as usaual Stephen).

* Removed most of the $w->IsXxxx tests following recent discussion 
  by perl5-porters.

* Other minor cleanups.


From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Fri May 12 17:50:24 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: New large managed archive
Date: Fri, 12 May 1995 18:50:24 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 483 424424
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> From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
> 
> Hi pack-rats
> 
> [...]
>
> Now before I announce this fact to the world I'd like to solicit
> some ideas about the best directory structure to recommend be setup.
> 
> Suggestions?

What's up with perl-packrats?

The lack of constructive coordinated effort here contrasts sharply with
the perl5-porters list.

After a quick look around perhaps I can see why no one suggested a
particular directory structure (picked at random):

ftp.icnet.uk:        /icrf-public/biu/   perlmods/ 
ftp.wpi.edu:         /                   perl5/Modules/ 
ftp.cis.ufl.edu:     /pub/               perl/src/5.0/ext/

Come on, lets talk about this! Where are we going here?

Tim.

From wjm  Sat May 13 20:01:14 1995
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Message-Id: <199505140101.AA01789@metronet.com>
From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Sat, 13 May 1995 20:01:05 -0500
In-Reply-To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
       "Re: New large managed archive" (May 12,  6:50pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Subject: Re: New large managed archive
Cc: perl-packrats

On May 12,  6:50pm, Tim Bunce wrote:
} Subject: Re: New large managed archive
} 
} > Suggestions?
} 
} What's up with perl-packrats?
} 
} The lack of constructive coordinated effort here contrasts sharply with
} the perl5-porters list.

I guess that's because nobody has veto power here.  :)

} Come on, lets talk about this! Where are we going here?

How about we forget scripts, hints, and the other junk for now.  
Lets  canonicalize on the location and naming scheme for src,
extensions, and any others you deem critical. Andreas has a pretty good 
scheme for extensions, but it relies on the interactive participationn
of the authors.   I agree to modify my archive to conform to whatever 
we can agree (vote?) on in terms of these most important
items.

Bill

From lusol@Turkey.CC.Lehigh.EDU Sun May 14 20:46:08 1995
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          id AA18523; Sun, 14 May 1995 16:46:08 -0400
From: lusol@Turkey.CC.Lehigh.EDU (Stephen O. Lidie)
Message-Id: <9505142046.AA18523@Turkey.CC.Lehigh.EDU>
Subject: Re: Tk-b4 now available
To: john@WPI.EDU (John Stoffel)
Date: Sun, 14 May 1995 16:46:08 -0400 (EDT)
Cc: ptk@WPI.EDU, perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <199505121545.LAA15570@avante.WPI.EDU> from "John Stoffel" at May 12, 95 11:45:32 am
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL24]
Content-Type: text
Content-Length: 3132      

1st attempt at Tk-b4 IAX install...

-------------------------------------
        cp Tk.pm /u5/lusol/lusol/perl5/Tk-b4/blib/Tk.pm
AutoSplitting Tk (/u5/lusol/lusol/perl5/Tk-b4/blib/auto/Tk)
Tk: some names are not unique when truncated to 8 characters:
 Selection, SelectionOwn, SelectionOwner, SelectionClear, SelectionHandle truncate to Selectio
--------------------------------------------------
        cp Tk/Scrollbar.pm /u5/lusol/lusol/perl5/Tk-b4/blib/Tk/Scrollbar.pm
AutoSplitting Tk::Scrollbar (/u5/lusol/lusol/perl5/Tk-b4/blib/auto/Tk/Scrollbar)
Tk::Scrollbar: some names are not unique when truncated to 8 characters:
 ScrollToPos, ScrollTopBottom truncate to ScrollTo
 ScrollByUnits, ScrollByPages truncate to ScrollBy
-----------------------------------------------------------

Finally, make failed with:

        cd Photo && make all INST_ARCHLIB="/u5/lusol/lusol/perl5/Tk-b4/blib" INST_EXE="/u5/lusol/lusol/perl5/Tk-b4/blib" INST_LIB="

/u5/lusol/lusol/perl5/Tk-b4/blib" LIBPERL_A="libperl.a" LINKTYPE="dynamic"
        /usr/bin/perl -I/usr/local/lib/perl5/aix -I/usr/local/lib/perl5 -e 'use ExtUtils::MakeMaker qw(&mksymlists); \
                &mksymlists(DL_FUNCS => "", DL_VARS => "", NAME => "Tk::Photo")'
Useless use of reference constructor in void context at -e line 2.
        /usr/bin/perl /usr/local/lib/perl5/ExtUtils/xsubpp -typemap /usr/local/lib/perl5/ExtUtils/typemap Photo.xs >Photo.tc && mv 

Photo.tc Photo.c
        cc -c -D_ALL_SOURCE -O     -I/usr/local/lib/perl5/aix/CORE -DUSE_PROTO -DHAVE_UNISTD_H -DHAVE_SYS_SELECT_H -DHAVE_SYS_TIME_

H -DHAVE_LIMITS_H -DTK_FILE_COUNT=_cnt "-DSELECT_MASK=int" -I../pTk  Photo.c
Running mkbootstrap for Tk::Photo ()
        ld -o /u5/lusol/lusol/perl5/Tk-b4/blib/auto/Tk/Photo/Photo.so -H512 -T512 -bhalt:4 -bM:SRE -bI:/usr/local/lib/perl5/aix/COR

E/perl.exp -bE:Photo.exp -e _nostart -lc Photo.o  ../pTk/libpTk.a 
0706-317 ERROR: Unresolved or undefined symbols detected:
                 Symbols in error (followed by references) are
                 dumped to the load map.
                oto ()
        ld -o /u5/lusol/lusol/perl5/Tk-b4/blib/auto/Tk/Photo/Photo.so -H512 -T512 -bhalt:4 -bM:SRE -bI:/usr/local/lib/perl5/aix/COR

E/perl.exp -bE:Photo.exp -e _nostart -lc Photo.o  ../pTk/libpTk.a 
0706-317 ERROR: Unresolved or undefined symbols detected:
                 Symbols in error (followed by references) are
                 dumped to the load map.
                 The -bloadmap:<filename> option will create a load map.
.Tcl_Pooto ()
        ld -o /u5/lusol/lusol/perl5/Tk-b4/blib/auto/Tk/Photo/Photo.so -H512 -T512 -bhalt:4 -bM:SRE -bI:/usr/local/lib/perl5/aix/COR

E/perl.exp -bE:Photo.exp -e _nostart -lc Photo.o  ../pTk/libpTk.a 
0706-317 ERROR: Unresolved or undefined symbols detected:
                 Symbols in error (followed by references) are
                 dumped to the load map.
                 The -bloadmap:<filename> option will create a load map.
.Tcl_PosixError
.Tcl_AppendResult
.pow
make: 1254-004 The error code from the last command is 8.

Make Quitting.
make: 1254-004 The error code from the last command is 2.

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Mon May 15 12:36:13 1995
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  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Mon, 15 May 1995 07:35:54 -0500
Return-Path: <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Received: from localhost.perl.com (Warm-Fuzzies@localhost.perl.com [127.0.0.1]) by mox.perl.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id GAA09619; Mon, 15 May 1995 06:36:14 -0600
To: perl-porters@mox.perl.com, tkperl@mox.perl.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: dup messages?
Reply-To: tchrist@perl.com
Date: Mon, 15 May 95 06:36:13 MDT
Message-Id: <9615.800541373@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

It's been brought to my attention that some folks have been getting
several copies of the same message.  May I suggest adding something like
this to yoru incoming mail filter.  You'll have to write your own &log()
function, and decide what path you want, but this works for me:

# avoid duplicate messages, which are defined as
# having the same subject, body length, body checksum,
# and received with 60 minutes of each other.
local($db) = "$MH{'path'}/.dupmsgdb";
if (dbmopen(%Msgs, $db, 0644)) {
    local($sum) = unpack("%31C*", $body);
    local($len) = length($body);
 
    $mid = $headers{'message-id'};
    
    if ( $Msgs{$mid} ) {
        &log("duplicate message id $mid discarded");
        exit; # duplicate
    elsif ($Msgs{$subject, $len, $sum} + 60*60 > time) { 
        &log("duplicate message body discarded");
        exit;
    } else {
        $Msgs{$subject, $len, $sum} = time;
        $Msgs{$mid} = 1;
    }
    dbmclose(%Msgs);
}

Tom Christiansen      Perl Consultant, Gamer, Hiker      tchrist@mox.perl.com


There's going to be no serious problem after this.  --Ken Thompson

From ram@hptnos02.grenoble.hp.com Mon May 15 13:58:18 1995
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	(1.37.109.15/15.5+ECS 3.3) id AA123606298; Mon, 15 May 1995 15:58:18 +0200
From: Raphael Manfredi <ram@hptnos02.grenoble.hp.com>
To: tchrist@perl.com
Cc: perl-porters@mox.perl.com, tkperl@mox.perl.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: dup messages? 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 15 May 95 06:36:13 MDT."
             <9615.800541373@mox> 
References: <9615.800541373@mox> 
X-Mailer: MH [version 6.8]
Organization: Hewlett-Packard Company, Grenoble, France
Date: Mon, 15 May 95 15:58:18 +0200
Message-Id: <13153.800546298@malaga.grenoble.hp.com>
Sender: ram@hptnos02.grenoble.hp.com

Quoting Tom Christiansen:
:It's been brought to my attention that some folks have been getting
:several copies of the same message.  May I suggest adding something like
:this to yoru incoming mail filter.  You'll have to write your own &log()
:function, and decide what path you want, but this works for me:

Or, if you are using mailagent, you can say in your rule file:

	To Cc List-Name: perl5-porters
		{ UNIQUE -a; STRIP Received; SAVE perl5 };

and let it do the rest. I NEVER get duplicates that way. Let me see if I
get some at all:

	grep history ~/var/log/agentlog

	95/05/14 15:40:23 mailagent[3021]:
		history duplicate <199505141510.AA13942@world.std.com>
	95/05/15 12:26:51 mailagent[3054]:
		history duplicate <8221.9505151129@odin.cam.harlequin.co.uk>

Yup, looks like I do sometimes...

Raphael

From rodger@hpbs2245.boi.hp.com Wed May 17 01:21:25 1995
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  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Tue, 16 May 1995 20:19:58 -0500
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Message-Id: <199505170121.AA165293686@hpbs2245.boi.hp.com>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Announcing NNTPClient.pm-0.15
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 19:21:25 -0600
From: Rodger Anderson <rodger@hpbs2245.boi.hp.com>

Hello Packrats;

Here is alpha version 0.15 of NNTPClient.  I'm on the wrong side of a
fire wall and can't make this available to everyone via FTP or HTTP.
I'm sending this out hoping someone will be able find it a home, er
archive site.  I'd like to be able provide pointers to where people
might find it when I announce it on comp.lang.perl.announce.

One thing I've been rather concerned about is how to handle updates.
Since this module is still in its early stages of development, I
expect I'll have to be making occasional changes.  If someone was nice
enough to archive this at their FTP site, how I would I be able to
update it?

Rodger Anderson
---cut---here---
package News::NNTPClient;

=head1 NAME

News::NNTPClient - Perl 5 module to talk to NNTP (RFC977) server

=head1 DESCRIPTION

This module implements a client interface to NNTP, enabling a perl
application to talk to NNTP servers.  It uses the OOP interface
introduced with perl5.

=head1 USAGE

Here is a short example.  It prints all articles in the news group
"test".

 #!/usr/local/bin/perl -w

 use News::NNTPClient;

 $c = new News::NNTPClient;

 ($first, $last) = ($c->group("test"));

 for (; $first <= $last; $first++) {
     print $c->article($first);
 }

 __END__

Here is another example.  This prints all articles in the test
newsgroup newer than one hour.:

 #!/usr/local/bin/perl -w

 use News::NNTPClient;

 $c = new News::NNTPClient;

 foreach ($c->newnews("test", time - 3600)) {
     print $c->body($_);
 }

 __END__

A new NNTPClient object must be created with the "new" method.  Once
this has been done, all NNTP commands are accessed through this object.

=head2 NNTPClient Commands

These commands are used to manipulate the NNTPClient object, and
aren't directly related to any commands available on any NNTP server.

Some commands return multiple lines.  These lines are returned as an
array in array context, and as a reference to an array in scalar
context.

=over 10

=item I<new>

Use this to create a new NNTP connection. It takes three arguments, a
hostname, a port and a debug flag.  It calls I<port>, I<host>,
I<connect>, and I<response>.  Use an empty arguement to specify defaults.  

If host is omitted or empty (""), looks for environment variable
NNTPSERVER or uses "news".

If port is omitted or blank (""), looks for environment variable
NNTPPORT, service "nntp", or 119.

Example:

    $c = new News::NNTPClient;
or
    $c = new News::NNTPClient("newsserver.some.where");
or
    $c = new News::NNTPClient("experimental", 9999);
or
    # Specify debug but use defaults.
    $c = new News::NNTPClient("", "", 1);

Returns a blessed reference, representing a new NNTP connection.

=item I<connect>

Connects to current host/port.
Not normally needed, as the I<new> method does this for you.
Closes any existing connection.
Sets the posting status, as returned by the I<postok> method.

=item I<host>

Sets the host that will be used on the next connect.
Not normally needed, as the I<new> method does this for you.

Without an argument, returns current host.

Argument can be hostname or dotted quad (15.2.174.218).

Returns fully qualified host name.

=item I<port>

Sets the port that will be used on the next connect.
Not normally needed, as the I<new> method does this for you.

Without an argument, returns current port.

Argument can be port number or name.  If it is a name, it must be a
valid service.

Returns port number.

=item I<debug>

With no arguement, returns debug level.  With argument, sets debug mode
to argument.

There are currently three levels of debug.  Level 0, level 1, and
level 2.

At level 1, any NNTP command that results in a result code of 400 or
greater prints a message.  The default is level 1.  Setting the debug
level to 0 turns this off.

At level 2, messages are printed to indicate actions taking place.

Returns old debug value.

=item I<ok>

Returns boolean status of most recent command.  NNTP return codes less
than 400 are considered OK.  Not often needed as most commands return
false upon failure anyway.

=item I<okprint>

Returns boolean status of most recent command.  NNTP return codes less
than 400 are considered OK.  Prints an error message for return codes
of 400 or greater unless debug level is set to zero (0).

This method is used internally by most commands, and could be
considered to be "for internal use only".  You should use the return
status of commands directly to determine pass-fail, or if needed the
L<ok> method can be used to check status later.

=item I<message>

Returns the NNTP response message of the most recent command.

Example, as returned by NNTP server version 1.5.11t:

    $c->slave;
    print $c->message;

    Kinky, kinky.  I don't support such perversions.

=item I<code>

Returns the NNTP response code of the most recent command.

Example:

    $c->article(1);
    print $c->code, "\n";

    412

=item I<postok>

Returns the postability status that was reported upon connection or
after the mode_reader command.

=item I<eol>

Sets and reports the End-Of-Line termination for text returned from
the server.  Default is \n.  To set EOL to nothing, pass in an empty
string.  To query current EOL without setting it, call with no
arguments.

Returns the old EOL termination.

=head2 NNTP Commands

=item I<mode_reader>

Some servers require this command to process NNTP client commands.
Sets postok status.

Returns OK status.

=item I<article>

Expects a single argument, an article number or Message-Id.

Returns the article as an array of lines terminated by the current EOL
in list context, or a reference to the array in scalar context.

=item I<body>

Expects a single argument, an article number or Message-Id.

Returns the body of an article as an array of lines terminated by the
current EOL in list context, or a reference to the array in
scalar context.

=item I<head>

Expects a single argument, an article number or Message-Id.

Returns the head of the article as an array of lines terminated by the
current EOL in list context, or a reference to the array in
scalar context.

=item I<stat>

Sends the the STAT command to the NNTP server.  Expects a single
argument, an article number or Message-Id.

Returns Message-Id if successful.

=item I<last>

Sends the LAST command to the NNTP server.

Returns Message-Id if successful.

=item I<next>

Sends the NEXT command to the NNTP server.

Returns Message-Id if successful.

=item I<group>

Sends the GROUP command to the NNTP server.  Also sets the current
group in the NNTPClient object, which is used by the I<newnews> and
I<xindex> commands.

Returns (first, last) in list context, or "first-last" in scalar
context, where first and last are the first and last article numbers
as reported by the group command.

If the estimated article count is needed, it can be extracted from the
message.  See I<message>.

=item I<list>

Sends the LIST command to the NNTP server.  Accepts one optional
argument that should indicate the type of list desired.  List type
depends on server.

Returns an array of lines terminated by the current EOL in list
context, or a reference to the array in scalar context.

=item I<newgroups>

Sends the NEWGROUPS command to the NNTP server.  Expects at least one
argument representing the date/time in seconds, or in S<"YYMMDD HHMMSS">
format.  Remaining arguments are used as distributions.

Example, print all new groups in the "comp" and/or "news" hierarchy as
of one hour ago:

    print $c->newgroups(time() - 3600, "comp", "news");

Returns list of new news group names as an array of lines terminated
by the current EOL in list context, or a reference to the array
in scalar context.

=item I<newnews>

Sends the NEWNEWS command to the NNTP server.  If the first argument
is a group name, it looks for new news in that group.  If the first
argument represents the date/time in seconds or in S<"YYMMDD HHMMSS">
format, then group is is last set group via the I<group> command or
"*".  Otherwise the date/time is the second argument.  Remaining
arguments are use to restrict distribution.

Example:

  # Hour old news new group "test".
  $c->newnews("test", time() - 3600);
or
  # Hour old in all groups.
  $c->newnews(time() - 3600);
or
  # Hour old news in group "test".
  $c->group("test");
  $c->newnews(time() - 3600);

Returns message-ids of new articles as an array of lines terminated by
the current EOL in list context, or a reference to the array in scalar
context.

=item I<help>

Returns any server help information.

Returns an array of lines terminated by the current EOL in list
context, or a reference to the array in scalar context.

=item I<post>

Post an article.  Expects data to be posted as an array of lines.  Most
servers expect, at a minimum, Newsgroups and Subject headers.  Be sure
to separate the header from the body with a neck, er blank line.

Example:

  @header = ("Newsgroups: test", "Subject: test");
  @body   = ("This is the body of the article");

  $c->post(@header, "", @body);

Any "\n" characters at the end of a line will be trimmed.

=item I<ihave>

Transfer an article.  Expects article to be send as an array of lines.

=item I<slave>

Doesn't do anything on most servers.  Included for completeness.

=item I<DESTROY>

This method is called whenever the the object created by
News::NNTPClient::new is destroyed.  It calls I<quit> to close the
connection.

=item I<quit>

Send the NNTP quit command and close the connection.  The connection
can be then be re-opened with the connect method.  Quit will
automatically be called when the object is destroyed, so there is no
need to explicitly call I<quit> before exiting your program.

=head2 Extended NNTP Commands

These commands are not mentioned in RFC977, and are not part of the
standard.  However, many servers implement them, so they are included
as part of this package for your convenience.

=item I<authinfo>

Expects two arguments, user and password.

=item I<date>

Returns server date in "YYYYMMDDhhmmss" format.

=item I<listgroup>

Expects one argument, a groupname.  Default is current group.

Returns article numbers as an array of lines terminated by
the current EOL in list context, or a reference to the array in scalar
context.

=item I<xmotd>

Expects one argument of unix time in seconds or a string in the form
"YYMMDD HHMMSS".

Returns the news servers "Message Of The Day" as an array of lines
terminated by the current EOL in list context, or a reference to the
array in scalar context.

=item I<xgtitle>

Expects one argument of a group pattern.  Default is current group.

Returns group titles an array of lines terminated by
the current EOL in list context, or a reference to the array in scalar
context.

Example:

 print $c->xgtitle("bit.listserv.v*");

 bit.listserv.valert-l   Virus Alert List. (Moderated)
 bit.listserv.vfort-l    VS-Fortran Discussion List.
 bit.listserv.vm-util    VM Utilities Discussion List.
 bit.listserv.vmesa-l    VM/ESA Mailing List.
 bit.listserv.vmslsv-l   VAX/VMS LISTSERV Discussion List.
 bit.listserv.vmxa-l     VM/XA Discussion List.
 bit.listserv.vnews-l    VNEWS Discussion List.
 bit.listserv.vpiej-l    Electronic Publishing Discussion List.

=item I<xpath>

Expects one argument of an article message-id.  Returns the path name
of the file on the server.

=item I<xhdr>

Fetch header for a range of articles.  First argument is name of
header to fetch.  If omitted or blank, default to Message-Id.  Second
argument is start of article range.  If omitted, defaults to 1.  Next
argument is end of range.

Returns headers as an array of lines terminated by the current EOL in list
context, or a reference to the array in scalar context.

Examples:

 # Fetch Message-Id of article 1.
 $c->xhdr();

 # Fetch Subject of article 1.
 $c->xhdr("Subject");

 # Fetch Subject of article 3345.
 $c->xhdr("Subject", 3345);

 # Fetch Subjects of articles 3345-9873
 $c->xhdr("Subject", 3345, 9873);

 # Fetch Message-Id of articles 3345-9873
 $c->xhdr("", 3345,9873);

=item I<xpat>

Fetch header for a range of articles matching one or more patterns.
First argument is name of header to fetch.  If omitted or blank,
default to Subject.  Second argument is start of article range.  If
omitted, defaults to 1.  Next argument is end of range.  Remaining
arguments are patterns to match.  Some servers use "*" for wildcard.

Returns headers as an array of lines terminated by the current EOL in list
context, or a reference to the array in scalar context.

Examples:

 # Fetch Subject header of article 1.
 $c->xpat();

 # Fetch From header of article 1.
 $c->xpat("From");

 # Fetch From of article 3345.
 $c->xpat("From", 3345);

 # Fetch From headers of articles 3345-9873 matching *foo*
 $c->xpat("From", 3345, 9873, "*foo*");

 # Fetch Subject headers of articles 3345-9873 matching *foo*, *bar*,
 # *and*, *stuff*
 $c->xpat("", 3345,9873, "*foo*", "*bar*", "*and*", "*stuff*");

=item I<xover>

Expects an article number or a starting and ending article number
representing a range of articles.

Returns overview information for each article as an array of lines
terminated by the current EOL in list context, or a reference to the
array in scalar context.

Xover generally returns items separated by tabs.  Here is an example
that prints out the xover fields from all messages in the test group.

 #!/usr/local/bin/perl

 require News::NNTPClient;

 $c = new News::NNTPClient;

 @fields = qw(numb subj from date mesg refr char line xref);

 foreach $xover ($c->xover($c->group("test"))) {
      %fields = ();
      @fields{@fields} = split /\t/, $xover;
      print map { "$_: $fields{$_}\n" } @fields;
      print "\n";
  }

=item I<xthread>

Expects zero or one arguement.  Value of argument doesn't matter.  If
present, I<dbinit> command is sent.  If absent, I<thread> command is
sent.

Returns binary data as a scalar value.

=item I<xindex>

Expects one argument, a group name.  If omitted, defaults to group set
by last I<group> command or "", which results in an error;

Returns index information for group as an array of lines terminated by
the current EOL in list context, or a reference to the array in scalar
context.

=item I<xsearch>

Expects a query as an array of lines which are sent to the server,
much like post.  Returns the result of the search as an array of lines
or a reference to same.

Format of query is unknown.

=head1 AUTHOR

Rodger Anderson <rodger@boi.hp.com>

=head1 COPYRIGHT

Copyright (c) 1995 Rodger Anderson. All rights reserved.
This module is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
modify it under the same terms as Perl itself.

=cut

require 5.000;

use Carp;
use Socket qw(PF_INET SOCK_STREAM AF_INET);

$sockaddr = 'S n a4 x8';	# Shouldn't this be part of Socket?
$fhcnt = 0;			# File handle counter, to insure unique socket.
$version = '$Revision: 0.15 $';
$EOL = "\n";			# Default line terminator.

# Create a new NNTP object.  Set up defaults for host and port, and
# attempt connection.  For host, if not supplied, check the
# environment variable NNTPSERVER.  If that isn't set, then hostname
# is "news".  For port, check the environment variable NNTPPORT, or
# use "nntp" service or 119.
sub new {
    my $name = shift;
    my $host = shift || $ENV{NNTPSERVER} || "news";
    my $port = shift || $ENV{NNTPPORT} || getservbyname("nntp","tcp") || 119;
    my $debug = shift || 1;

    my $me = bless {
	DBUG => $debug,
	SOCK => $name . "::SOCK" . ++$fhcnt,
	HOST => $host,
	PORT => $port,
	ADDR => "",
	MESG => "",
	CODE => 0,
	POST => undef,
	EOL  => $EOL,
    }, $name;

    $me->port($port) and $me->host($host) and $me->connect and $me->response;

    $me;
}

# Determine port number.  If we were passed a non-numeric port,
# attempt to look it up.
sub port {
    my $me = shift;
    my $port = shift or return $me->{PORT};

    unless ($port =~ /^\d+$/) {
	my $tmp = getservbyname ($port, "tcp") or
	    carp "News::NNTPClient: Bad port: $port" and return;
	$port = $tmp;
    }

    $me->{PORT} = $port;
}

# If an address is in dotted quad format (15.2.218.17), then, return
# packed address, suitable for use by gethostbyaddr.
sub _dottedquad {
    local $_ = shift;

    pack ('C4', $1, $2, $3, $4) if /^(\d+)\.(\d+)\.(\d+)\.(\d+)$/
	and $1 < 255 and $2 < 255 and $3 < 255 and $4 < 255;
}

# Resolve hostname.
sub host {
    my $me = shift;
    my $host = shift or return $me->{HOST};

    # Get address.
    unless ($addr = _dottedquad ($host)) {
	$addr = gethostbyname ($host) or
	    carp "News::NNTPClient: Bad hostname: $host" and return;
    }

    # Get fully qualified domain name
    my $tmp = gethostbyaddr ($addr, AF_INET) or
	carp "News::NNTPClient: Bad address: $host" and return;

    $me->{ADDR} = $addr;
    $me->{HOST} = $tmp;
}

# Connect to server.
sub connect {
    my $me = shift;
    local $\ = "";             # Guarantee that no other EOL is in use

    my $SOCK = $me->{SOCK};

    if (defined fileno $SOCK) {
	1 < $me->{DBUG} and
	    warn "$SOCK already connected, closing\n";
	close $SOCK;
    }

    1 < $me->{DBUG} and
	warn "$SOCK connecting to $me->{HOST}:$me->{PORT}\n";

    socket ($SOCK, PF_INET, SOCK_STREAM, getprotobyname("tcp") || 6) or
	carp "News::NNTPClient: Can't open socket: $!" and return;

    connect ($SOCK, pack($sockaddr, AF_INET, $me->{PORT}, $me->{ADDR})) or
	carp "News::NNTPClient: Can't connect socket: $!" and return;

    select ((select($SOCK), $|=1)[0]); # Turn on autoflush.

    1;
}

########################################################################
# Helper methods.  These methods may be called to return saved
# information about the NNTP connection, information about the
# package, or to set EOL and debug,
########################################################################


# Return version number.
sub version {
    my $me = shift;

    # Get News::NNTPClient::version, if package happens to be
    # News::NNTPClient.
    my $rev = ${ref($me) . "::version"};

    # Strip off any RCS header junk, leaving only version number.
    $rev =~ s/.*?([\d.]+).*/$1/;

    $rev;
}

# With no argument, return debugging level, otherwise set it.
sub debug {
    my $me = shift;
    my $debug = shift;

    $me->{DBUG} = $debug if defined $debug;

    $me->{DBUG};
}

# Set EOL
sub eol {
    my $me = shift;
    my $new = shift;
    my $old = $me->{EOL};

    # Set to new EOL only if passed a value.
    $me->{EOL} = $new if defined $new;

    $old;
}

# Return boolean according to code < 400.
sub ok {
    my $me = shift;

    # Codes less than 400 are good.
    0 < $me->{CODE} and $me->{CODE} < 400;
}

# Return boolean according to code < 400 and print message if not ok.
sub okprint {
    my $me = shift;

    warn "NNTPERROR: $me->{CODE} $me->{MESG}\n"
	if 400 <= $me->{CODE} and $me->{DBUG};

    # Codes less than 400 are good.
    0 < $me->{CODE} and $me->{CODE} < 400;
}

# Return the most recent message
sub message {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->{MESG};
}

# Return the most recent code
sub code {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->{CODE};
}

# Return boolean according to post ok flag.
sub postok {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->{POST};
}

########################################################################
# NNTP methods.
########################################################################

# Fetch an article.
sub article {
    my $me = shift;
    my $msgid = shift || "";

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("ARTICLE $msgid");
}

# Fetch body of an article.
sub body {
    my $me = shift;
    my $msgid = shift || "";

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("BODY $msgid");
}

# Fetch header of an article.
sub head {
    my $me = shift;
    my $msgid = shift || "";

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("HEAD $msgid");
}

# Fetch status of an article.  Return Message-Id if found.
sub stat {
    my $me = shift;
    my $msgid = shift || "";

    $me->{CMND} = "msgid";
    $me->command("STAT $msgid");
}

# Move current article pointer backwards.  Return Message-Id if found.
sub last {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->{CMND} = "msgid";
    $me->command("LAST");
}

# Move current article pointer forwards.  Return Message-Id if found.
sub next {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->{CMND} = "msgid";
    $me->command("NEXT");
}

# Set the group.
sub group {
    my $me = shift;
    my $group = shift || "";

    $me->{CMND} = "groupinfo";
    $me->command("GROUP $group");
}

# List all groups.
sub list {
    my $me = shift;
    my $type = shift || "";

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("LIST $type");
}

# List new groups since date/time.
sub newgroups {
    my $me = shift;
    my $since = yymmdd_hhmmss(shift);

    my $dist = distributions(@_);

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("NEWGROUPS $since $dist");
}

# List new news since date/time.  If first arguement is a timestamp
# instead of a group, use default group.  Otherwise use second
# arguement for time stamp.  Default group is set by the group method,
# or is all groups (*) if not set.
sub newnews {
    my $me = shift;
    my $group = shift;
    my $since;

    if ($group) {
	if ($group =~ /^[\d ]+/) {
	    $since = $group;
	    $group = "";
	} else {
	    $since = shift;
	}
    }

    $group = $group || $me->{GROUP} || "*";
    $since = yymmdd_hhmmss($since);

    my $dist = distributions(@_);

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("NEWNEWS $group $since $dist");
}

# Get help text.
sub help {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("HELP");
}

# Post an article.
sub post {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->command("POST") or return;

    $me->squirt(@_);
}

# Transfer an article.
sub ihave {
    my $me = shift;
    my $msgid = shift || "";

    $me->command("IHAVE $msgid") or return;

    $me->squirt(@_);
}

# Authinfo command
sub authinfo {
    my $me = shift;
    my $user = shift || "guest";
    my $pass = shift || "foobar";

    $me->command("AUTHINFO USER $user") && $me->command("AUTHINFO PASS $pass");
}

# Turn on slave mode, whatever that means.
sub slave {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->command("SLAVE");
}

# All done.
sub quit {
    my $me = shift;

    return "" unless defined fileno $me->{SOCK};

    my $ret = $me->command("QUIT");

    close $me->{SOCK};

    $ret;
}

sub DESTROY {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->quit;
}

########################################################################
# Extended NNTP methods.  Not all of these are impemented on all
# servers.
########################################################################

# Mode reader command.
sub mode_reader {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->command("MODE READER");
}

# Returns date
sub date {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->{CMND} = "message";
    $me->command("DATE");
}

# Return list of article numbers in group.
sub listgroup {
    my $me = shift;
    my $group = shift || "";

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("LISTGROUP $group");
}

# Get message of the day.
sub xmotd {
    my $me = shift;
    my $since = yymmdd_hhmmss(shift);

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("XMOTD $since");
}

# Return titles for newsgroups matching pattern.
sub xgtitle {
    my $me = shift;
    my $group_pattern = shift || "";

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("XGTITLE $group_pattern");
}

# Return path name for article?
sub xpath {
    my $me = shift;
    my $msgid = shift || "";

    $me->{CMND} = "message";
    $me->command("XPATH $msgid");
}

# Fetch a header for a range of articles.  If ARG1 is numeric, use it
# as first entry of article range and use Message-Id as the header.
# Otherwise ARG1 is header, and ARG2 is first entry of article range.
sub xhdr {
    my $me = shift;
    my $header = shift || "message-id";
    my $list = shift || 1;
    my $last = shift;

    $list = "$list-$last" if $last;

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("XHDR $header $list");
}

sub xpat {
    my $me = shift;
    my $header = shift || "subject";
    my $list = shift || 1;
    my $last = shift;
    my $patterns = "";
    
    if ($last) {
	if ($last =~ /^\d+$/) {
	    $list = "$list-$last";
	} else {
	    $patterns = $last;
	}
    }

    $patterns .= @_ ? " @_" : "";

    $patterns = "*" unless $patterns;

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("XPAT $header $list $patterns");
}

# Fetch overview for range of articles.
sub xover {
    my $me = shift;
    my $list = shift || 1;
    my $last = shift;

    $list = "$list-$last" if $last;

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("XOVER $list");
}

# Fetch thread file.
sub xthread {
    my $me = shift;
    my $file = @_ ? "dbinit" : "thread";

    $me->{CMND} = "fetchbinary";
    $me->command("XTHREAD $file");
}

# Fetch index
sub xindex {
    my $me = shift;
    my $group = shift || $me->{GROUP} || "";

    $me->{CMND} = "fetch";
    $me->command("XINDEX $group");
}

# Search???  Expects search criteria, format unknown.
sub xsearch {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->command("XSEARCH") or return;

    $me->squirt(@_);
}

########################################################################
# Subroutines to implement basic methods.
########################################################################

# Send a command.
sub cmd {
    my ($me, $cmd) = @_;
    local $\ = "";		# Guarantee that no other EOL is in use

    my $SOCK = $me->{SOCK};

    1 < $me->{DBUG} and warn "$SOCK command: $cmd\n";

    defined fileno($SOCK) or
	carp "News::NNTPClient: $SOCK isn't a file handle\n" and return;

    print $SOCK "$cmd\015\012";
}

# Send a command and retrieve status.  The only reason for not doing
# all the work in cmd is so this method can be replaced in a subclass,
# and the subclass can call cmd to do the real work.
sub command {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->cmd(@_);

    $me->response;
}

# Extract Group info from MESG.
sub groupinfo {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->{GROUP} = "";

    # est-articles first-article last-article group-name
    if ($me->okprint and $me->{MESG} =~ /(\d+)\s+(\d+)\s+(\d+)\s+(\w+)/) {
	$me->{GROUP} = $4;
	return wantarray ? ($2, $3) : "$2-$3";
    }
}


# Extract message-id from MESG.
sub msgid {
    my $me = shift;

    $me->okprint and $me->{MESG} =~ /(<[^>]+>)/ ? $1 : "";
}

# Fetch text from server until single dot.
sub fetch {
    my $me = shift;
    local $/ = "\012";         # Only use LF to account for possible missing CR
    local $\ = "";             # Guarantee that no other EOL is in use
    local $_;

    return unless $me->okprint;

    my @lines;

    my $SOCK = $me->{SOCK};

    # Loop reading lines until we receive a line with a single period.
    while (<$SOCK>) {
	s/\015?\012$/$me->{EOL}/; # Change termination

	last if $_ eq ".$me->{EOL}";

	s/^\.\././;		# Fix up escaped dots.
	push @lines, $_;	# Save each line.
    }

    1 < $me->{DBUG} and	warn "$SOCK received ${\scalar @lines} lines\n";

    wantarray ? @lines : \@lines;
}

# Fetch binary data from server, terminated by: \r\n.\r\n   Used by xthread
sub fetchbinary {
    my $me = shift;
    local $/ = "\015\012.\015\012";
    local $\ = "";             # Guarantee that no other EOL is in use
    local $_;

    return unless $me->okprint;

    my $SOCK = $me->{SOCK};

    my $data = <$SOCK>;

    chomp $data;

    1 < $me->{DBUG} and	warn "$SOCK received ${\length $data} bytes\n";

    $data;
}

# Figure out what we should return to sender
sub returnval {
    my $me = shift;

    my $command = $me->{CMND} || "okprint";

    $me->{CMND} = "";		# reset after use.

    $me->$command();
}

# Read response to some action (connect, command or squirt)
sub response {
    my $me = shift;
    local $/ = "\012";         # Only use LF to account for possible missing CR
    local $\ = "";             # Guarantee that no other EOL is in use
    local $_;
    
    my $SOCK = $me->{SOCK};

    $_ = <$SOCK>;

    $me->{CODE} = 0;
    $me->{MESG} = "";

    defined ($_) or
	carp "News::NNTPClient EOF on $SOCK\n" and return;

    s/\015?\012$/$me->{EOL}/; # Change termination

    if (/^((\d\d)(\d))\s*(.+)/) { # Split out numeric code and message.
	$me->{POST} = !$3 if $2 == 20;
	$me->{CODE} = $1;
	$me->{MESG} = $4;
    }

    1 < $me->{DBUG} and	warn "$SOCK result($me->{CODE}): $me->{MESG}\n";

    $me->returnval;
}

sub squirt {
    my $me = shift;
    local $\ = "";             # Guarantee that no other EOL is in use

    my $SOCK = $me->{SOCK};

    1 < $me->{DBUG} and warn "$SOCK sending ${\scalar @_} lines\n";

    foreach (@_) {
	local ($_) = $_;
	# Print each line, possibly prepending a dot for lines
	# starting with a dot and trimming any trailing \n.
	s/^\./../;
	s/\n$//;
	print $SOCK "$_\015\012";
    }

    print $SOCK ".\015\012";	# Terminate message.

    1 < $me->{DBUG} and warn "$SOCK done sending\n";

    $me->response;
}

# Return time in YYMMDD HHMMSS format, for use with newnews and
# newgroups commands.  If passed a string already in that format, just
# return it.  Otherwise use localtime() to convert seconds to
# date/time.  Default is current time.
sub yymmdd_hhmmss {
    my $time = shift || time();

    # Already in the correct format?
    return $time if $time =~ /^\d{6} \d{6}$/;

    # returns Seconds, Minutes, Hours, days, months - 1, years.
    my @t = (localtime($time))[0..5];
    $t[4]++;			# Fix up month;
    my $fmt = "%.02d" x 3;
    sprintf "$fmt $fmt", reverse @t;
}

# Convert list of newsgroup prefixes to distribution list.  For
# example: comp news -> "<comp,news>".  Returns null string if passed
# an empty list.
sub distributions {
    @_ and "<" . join(",", @_) . ">" or "";
}

1;

From wjm  Tue May 16 23:14:48 1995
Received: by metronet.com id AA07261
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for perl-packrats); Tue, 16 May 1995 23:12:17 -0500
Return-Path: <wjm>
Message-Id: <199505170412.AA07261@metronet.com>
From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Tue, 16 May 1995 23:12:16 -0500
In-Reply-To: Rodger Anderson <rodger@hpbs2245.boi.hp.com>
       "Announcing NNTPClient.pm-0.15" (May 16,  7:21pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Rodger Anderson <rodger@hpbs2245.boi.hp.com>
Subject: Re: Announcing NNTPClient.pm-0.15
Cc: perl-packrats


Thanks Rodger, its in /pub/perl/perl5/extensions now

I'll keep that incoming dir open until the I get sick
cleaning  it out all the time of funk dirs.  Anyone 
got any suggestions how to stop the Warez 
freaks and still leave world writes on a dir?
I've already set  the dir to 733.

Bill

From spp@parallax.syrinx.com Wed May 17 04:39:46 1995
Received: from parallax.syrinx.com (pm2_2.digital.net) by metronet.com with SMTP id AA12215
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Tue, 16 May 1995 23:37:34 -0500
Return-Path: <spp@parallax.syrinx.com>
Received: (from spp@localhost) by parallax.syrinx.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA00161; Wed, 17 May 1995 00:39:46 -0400
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 00:39:46 -0400
From: Stephen P Potter <spp@parallax.syrinx.com>
Message-Id: <199505170439.AAA00161@parallax.syrinx.com>
To: wjm@metronet.com
Cc: rodger@hpbs2245.boi.hp.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <199505170412.AA07261@metronet.com> (wjm@metronet.com)
Reply-To: spp@digital.net
Subject: Re: Announcing NNTPClient.pm-0.15

Turn off directory creation in subdirectories.  What ftpd are you running?


Steve

From spp@parallax.syrinx.com Wed May 17 04:50:24 1995
Received: from parallax.syrinx.com (pm2_2.digital.net) by metronet.com with SMTP id AA14539
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Tue, 16 May 1995 23:49:15 -0500
Return-Path: <spp@parallax.syrinx.com>
Received: (from spp@localhost) by parallax.syrinx.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA00178; Wed, 17 May 1995 00:50:24 -0400
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 00:50:24 -0400
From: Stephen P Potter <spp@parallax.syrinx.com>
Message-Id: <199505170450.AAA00178@parallax.syrinx.com>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9505122102.aa22874@post.demon.co.uk> (message from Tim Bunce on Fri, 12 May 1995 18:50:24 +0100)
Reply-To: perl-packrats
Subject: Re: New large managed archive

>What's up with perl-packrats?
>
>The lack of constructive coordinated effort here contrasts sharply with
>the perl5-porters list.

We've discussed this a bit in the past, and a few members were supposed to
be working on it.  I almost had a new site where we could have started the
CPAN (Comprehensive Perl Archivers Network) from, but they didn't have
enough room and only have a 56k line.  I didn't want to bog them down with
many mirrors.  Anyone else who wants to become the main site for CPAN, feel
free to speak up.

>ftp.cis.ufl.edu:     /pub/               perl/src/5.0/ext/

Speaking only for myself, that's actually /pub/perl/ext, which is linked
into src/5.0.  I chose ext because it followed the perl distribution, and I
thought it would be easiest for people to find.

Steve

From spp@parallax.syrinx.com Wed May 17 04:53:59 1995
Received: from parallax.syrinx.com (pm2_2.digital.net) by metronet.com with SMTP id AA15176
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Tue, 16 May 1995 23:52:35 -0500
Return-Path: <spp@parallax.syrinx.com>
Received: (from spp@localhost) by parallax.syrinx.com (8.6.11/8.6.9) id AAA00181; Wed, 17 May 1995 00:53:59 -0400
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 00:53:59 -0400
From: Stephen P Potter <spp@parallax.syrinx.com>
Message-Id: <199505170453.AAA00181@parallax.syrinx.com>
To: wjm@metronet.com
Cc: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <199505140101.AA01789@metronet.com> (wjm@metronet.com)
Reply-To: spp@digital.net
Subject: Re: New large managed archive

How about this:
perl/
    doc/
	4/
	5/
	faq/
    src/
	4/
	    [non-unix ports]
	5/
	    [non-unix ports]
	    ext/
    scripts/   which can (should) be broken down by function, although this
		gets interesting trying to figure out.

What others?

From grady@swindle.XCF.Berkeley.EDU Wed May 17 05:53:29 1995
Received: from swindle.XCF.Berkeley.EDU by metronet.com with SMTP id AA29137
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Wed, 17 May 1995 00:52:05 -0500
Return-Path: <grady@swindle.XCF.Berkeley.EDU>
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Message-Id: <199505170553.WAA04898@swindle.XCF.Berkeley.EDU>
X-Authentication-Warning: swindle.XCF.Berkeley.EDU: Host localhost didn't use HELO protocol
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Cc: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Subject: Re: New large managed archive 
In-Reply-To: Your message of Wed, 17 May 1995 00:50:24 -0400 
	     <199505170450.AAA00178@parallax.syrinx.com> 
Date: Tue, 16 May 95 22:53:29 -0700
From: grady@XCF.Berkeley.EDU

Sadly, I have had little or no time to update the WalnutCreek
Perl archive recently (at wcarhive.cdrom.com), but I am fairly
sure the WC would be happy to be the host of the CPAN.  I
will forward the question to them to make sure.  I'm not sure
if I'll have the time to be the maintainer of the site, though.

(They have a T-1 line, and 30 or 40 gigs of disk, all devoted to archives.)

	Steven

> From:  Stephen P Potter <spp@parallax.syrinx.com>
> Subject:  Re: New large managed archive
> >What's up with perl-packrats?
> >
> >The lack of constructive coordinated effort here contrasts sharply with
> >the perl5-porters list.
> 
> We've discussed this a bit in the past, and a few members were supposed to
> be working on it.  I almost had a new site where we could have started the
> CPAN (Comprehensive Perl Archivers Network) from, but they didn't have
> enough room and only have a 56k line.  I didn't want to bog them down with
> many mirrors.  Anyone else who wants to become the main site for CPAN, feel
> free to speak up.
> 
> >ftp.cis.ufl.edu:     /pub/               perl/src/5.0/ext/
> 
> Speaking only for myself, that's actually /pub/perl/ext, which is linked
> into src/5.0.  I chose ext because it followed the perl distribution, and I
> thought it would be easiest for people to find.
> 
> Steve

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Wed May 17 06:14:35 1995
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  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Wed, 17 May 1995 01:13:14 -0500
Return-Path: <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Received: from beta.hut.fi (beta.hut.fi [130.233.224.51]) by vinkku.hut.fi (8.6.11/8.6.7) with ESMTP id JAA26657; Wed, 17 May 1995 09:14:35 +0300
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Received: (jhi@localhost) by beta.hut.fi (8.6.11/8.6.7) id JAA13612; Wed, 17 May 1995 09:14:35 +0300
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 09:14:35 +0300
Message-Id: <199505170614.JAA13612@beta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Cc: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Subject: Re: New large managed archive
In-Reply-To: <199505170450.AAA00178@parallax.syrinx.com>
References: <9505122102.aa22874@post.demon.co.uk>
	<199505170450.AAA00178@parallax.syrinx.com>
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
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> We've discussed this a bit in the past, and a few members were supposed to
> be working on it.  I almost had a new site where we could have started the

I guess I am one of to main persons to blame for nothing happening for
quite a while... :-(  Finishing one's M Sc thesis does keep one wonderfully
busy...but the deadline for that is the 29th of May, please bear with me
until that.

What I've done so far is to collect about 500MB of Perl stuff from all
around the Net and unique it, cutting them down by several dozen percentages.
The next thing when I start to work on them again will be to catch up
with the various archives (I've got mirrors going on most of them so that'll
be easy) and then...

> CPAN (Comprehensive Perl Archivers Network) from, but they didn't have
> enough room and only have a 56k line.  I didn't want to bog them down with
> many mirrors.  Anyone else who wants to become the main site for CPAN, feel
> free to speak up.

...find the site.  Well, I happen to be one of the admins of ftp.funet.fi,
an AXP 3000/900S with 288 MB of memory and 50 GB of disk.  I guess otherwise
it would be an excellent main site but I have this odd feeling that you folks
living at the other side of the Pond won't agree :-).  The funet site would
definitely be one of the mirror sites once we get the CPAN going.  But the
stuff as it know stands needs lots of organizing before it's worthy to
be called "the CPAN".  How shall we manage it?  Someone should shuffle
the scripts (most of these come from the metronet), someone the extensions
(these I haven't yet collected), someone the non-UNIX ports (funet), ...
there are at least two problems: 1) finding those suck^H^H^H^Hbrave
volunteers :-) 2) getting the megs from my disks to their disks.

++jhi;

From wjm  Wed May 17 09:17:33 1995
Received: by metronet.com id AA29460
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for perl-packrats); Wed, 17 May 1995 09:17:20 -0500
Return-Path: <wjm>
Message-Id: <199505171417.AA29460@metronet.com>
From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Wed, 17 May 1995 09:17:16 -0500
In-Reply-To: Stephen P Potter <spp@parallax.syrinx.com>
       "Re: Announcing NNTPClient.pm-0.15" (May 17, 12:39am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: spp@digital.net
Subject: Re: Announcing NNTPClient.pm-0.15
Cc: perl-packrats

On May 17, 12:39am, Stephen P Potter wrote:
} Subject: Re: Announcing NNTPClient.pm-0.15
} Turn off directory creation in subdirectories.  What ftpd are you running?
} 

Just hp's default.  Hints?  I can't upgrade the server or anything
drastic, but can offer suggestions.  Is wuftpd stable now?



Thanks,

Bill

From appleton@ivhs.mot.com Thu May 18 15:27:57 1995
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From: Brad Appleton <appleton@ivhs.mot.com>
Message-Id: <199505181527.KAA03324@arrow58.ivhs.mot.com>
Subject: Old version of newgetopt.pl at your perl website
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com, wjm@metronet.com
Date: Thu, 18 May 1995 10:27:57 -0500 (CDT)
Reply-To: Brad_Appleton@ivhs.mot.com
Organization: Motorola Automotive, Energy and Controls Group
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Your website (and the one at Univ. of Florida), dont seem to have the
most recent version of Johan Vromans newgetopt.pl for perl. The latest
version (that I am aware of) is 1.14. I will includes its contents for
you below.  If you could please update your site and the Univ of FL
site (or tell me how to submit it to them) I would be much obliged!

_____________________"And miles to go before I sleep."________________________
Brad Appleton, Software Engineer        Motorola Automotive, Energy & Controls
  E-mail: Brad_Appleton@ivhs.mot.com    Positioning and Navigation Systems
  Phone:  708-714-7104                  4000 Commercial Avenue, Mailstop 23
  Fax:    708-714-7200                  Northbrook, IL  USA  60062-1840
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~Disclaimer: I said it, not my employer!~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


# newgetopt.pl -- new options parsing

# SCCS Status     : @(#)@ newgetopt.pl	1.14
# Author          : Johan Vromans
# Created On      : Tue Sep 11 15:00:12 1990
# Last Modified By: Johan Vromans
# Last Modified On: Sat Feb 12 18:24:02 1994
# Update Count    : 138
# Status          : Okay

################ Introduction ################
#
# This package implements an extended getopt function. This function adheres
# to the new syntax (long option names, no bundling).
# It tries to implement the better functionality of traditional, GNU and
# POSIX getopt functions.
# 
# This program is Copyright 1990,1994 by Johan Vromans.
# This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
# modify it under the terms of the GNU General Public License
# as published by the Free Software Foundation; either version 2
# of the License, or (at your option) any later version.
# 
# This program is distributed in the hope that it will be useful,
# but WITHOUT ANY WARRANTY; without even the implied warranty of
# MERCHANTABILITY or FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE.  See the
# GNU General Public License for more details.
# 
# If you do not have a copy of the GNU General Public License write to
# the Free Software Foundation, Inc., 675 Mass Ave, Cambridge, 
# MA 02139, USA.

################ Description ################
#
# Usage:
# 
#    require "newgetopt.pl";
#    ...change configuration values, if needed...
#    $result = &NGetOpt (...option-descriptions...);
# 
# Each description should designate a valid perl identifier, optionally
# followed by an argument specifier.
# 
# Values for argument specifiers are:
# 
#   <none>   option does not take an argument
#   !        option does not take an argument and may be negated
#   =s :s    option takes a mandatory (=) or optional (:) string argument
#   =i :i    option takes a mandatory (=) or optional (:) integer argument
#   =f :f    option takes a mandatory (=) or optional (:) real number argument
# 
# If option "name" is set, it will cause the perl variable $opt_name to
# be set to the specified value. The calling program can use this
# variable to detect whether the option has been set. Options that do
# not take an argument will be set to 1 (one).
# 
# Options that take an optional argument will be defined, but set to ''
# if no actual argument has been supplied.
# 
# If an "@" sign is appended to the argument specifier, the option is
# treated as an array. Value(s) are not set, but pushed into array
# @opt_name.
# 
# Options that do not take a value may have an "!" argument spacifier to
# indicate that they may be negated. E.g. "foo!" will allow -foo (which
# sets $opt_foo to 1) and -nofoo (which will set $opt_foo to 0).
# 
# The option name may actually be a list of option names, separated by
# '|'s, e.g. "foo|bar|blech=s". In this example, options 'bar' and
# 'blech' will set $opt_foo instead.
# 
# Option names may be abbreviated to uniqueness, depending on
# configuration variable $autoabbrev.
# 
# Dashes in option names are allowed (e.g. pcc-struct-return) and will
# be translated to underscores in the corresponding perl variable (e.g.
# $opt_pcc_struct_return).  Note that a lone dash "-" is considered an
# option, corresponding perl identifier is $opt_ .
# 
# A double dash "--" signals end of the options list.
# 
# If the first option of the list consists of non-alphanumeric
# characters only, it is interpreted as a generic option starter.
# Everything starting with one of the characters from the starter will
# be considered an option.
# 
# The default values for the option starters are "-" (traditional), "--"
# (POSIX) and "+" (GNU, being phased out).
# 
# Options that start with "--" may have an argument appended, separated
# with an "=", e.g. "--foo=bar".
# 
# If configuration varaible $getopt_compat is set to a non-zero value,
# options that start with "+" may also include their arguments,
# e.g. "+foo=bar".
# 
# A return status of 0 (false) indicates that the function detected
# one or more errors.
#
################ Some examples ################
# 
# If option "one:i" (i.e. takes an optional integer argument), then
# the following situations are handled:
# 
#    -one -two		-> $opt_one = '', -two is next option
#    -one -2		-> $opt_one = -2
# 
# Also, assume "foo=s" and "bar:s" :
# 
#    -bar -xxx		-> $opt_bar = '', '-xxx' is next option
#    -foo -bar		-> $opt_foo = '-bar'
#    -foo --		-> $opt_foo = '--'
# 
# In GNU or POSIX format, option names and values can be combined:
# 
#    +foo=blech		-> $opt_foo = 'blech'
#    --bar=		-> $opt_bar = ''
#    --bar=--		-> $opt_bar = '--'
# 
################ Configuration values ################
# 
#   $autoabbrev      Allow option names to be abbreviated to uniqueness.
#                    Default is 1 unless environment variable
#                    POSIXLY_CORRECT has been set.
# 
#   $getopt_compat   Allow '+' to start options.
#                    Default is 1 unless environment variable
#                    POSIXLY_CORRECT has been set.
# 
#   $option_start    Regexp with option starters.
#                    Default is (--|-) if environment variable
#                    POSIXLY_CORRECT has been set, (--|-|\+) otherwise.
# 
#   $order           Whether non-options are allowed to be mixed with
#                    options.
#                    Default is $REQUIRE_ORDER if environment variable
#                    POSIXLY_CORRECT has been set, $PERMUTE otherwise.
# 
#   $ignorecase      Ignore case when matching options. Default is 1.
# 
#   $debug           Enable debugging output. Default is 0.

################ History ################
# 
# 12-Feb-1994		Johan Vromans	
#    Added "!" for negation.
#    Released to the net.
#
# 26-Aug-1992		Johan Vromans	
#    More POSIX/GNU compliance.
#    Lone dash and double-dash are now independent of the option prefix
#      that is used.
#    Make errors in NGetOpt parameters fatal.
#    Allow options to be mixed with arguments.
#      Check $ENV{"POSIXLY_CORRECT"} to suppress this.
#    Allow --foo=bar and +foo=bar (but not -foo=bar).
#    Allow options to be abbreviated to minimum needed for uniqueness.
#      (Controlled by configuration variable $autoabbrev.)
#    Allow alias names for options (e.g. "foo|bar=s").
#    Allow "-" in option names (e.g. --pcc-struct-return). Dashes are
#      translated to "_" to form valid perl identifiers
#      (e.g. $opt_pcc_struct_return). 
#
# 2-Jun-1992		Johan Vromans	
#    Do not use //o to allow multiple NGetOpt calls with different delimeters.
#    Prevent typeless option from using previous $array state.
#    Prevent empty option from being eaten as a (negative) number.
#
# 25-May-1992		Johan Vromans	
#    Add array options. "foo=s@" will return an array @opt_foo that
#    contains all values that were supplied. E.g. "-foo one -foo -two" will
#    return @opt_foo = ("one", "-two");
#    Correct bug in handling options that allow for a argument when followed
#    by another option.
#
# 4-May-1992		Johan Vromans	
#    Add $ignorecase to match options in either case.
#    Allow '' option.
#
# 19-Mar-1992		Johan Vromans	
#    Allow require from packages.
#    NGetOpt is now defined in the package that requires it.
#    @ARGV and $opt_... are taken from the package that calls it.
#    Use standard (?) option prefixes: -, -- and +.
#
# 20-Sep-1990		Johan Vromans	
#    Set options w/o argument to 1.
#    Correct the dreadful semicolon/require bug.

################ Configuration Section ################

{   package newgetopt;

    # Values for $order. See GNU getopt.c for details.
    $REQUIRE_ORDER = 0;
    $PERMUTE = 1;
    $RETURN_IN_ORDER = 2;

    # Handle POSIX compliancy.
    if ( defined $ENV{"POSIXLY_CORRECT"} ) {
	$autoabbrev = 0;	# no automatic abbrev of options (???)
	$getopt_compat = 0;	# disallow '+' to start options
	$option_start = "(--|-)";
	$order = $REQUIRE_ORDER;
    }
    else {
	$autoabbrev = 1;	# automatic abbrev of options
	$getopt_compat = 1;	# allow '+' to start options
	$option_start = "(--|-|\\+)";
	$order = $PERMUTE;
    }

    # Other configurable settings.
    $debug = 0;			# for debugging
    $ignorecase = 1;		# ignore case when matching options
    $argv_end = "--";		# don't change this!
}

################ Subroutines ################

sub NGetOpt {

    @newgetopt'optionlist = @_;	#';

    package newgetopt;

    local ($[) = 0;
    local ($genprefix) = $option_start;
    local ($argend) = $argv_end;
    local ($error) = 0;
    local ($opt, $optx, $arg, $type, $mand, %opctl);
    local ($pkg) = (caller)[0];
    local ($optarg);
    local (%aliases);
    local (@ret) = ();

    print STDERR "NGetOpt 1.14 -- called from $pkg\n" if $debug;

    # See if the first element of the optionlist contains option
    # starter characters.
    if ( $optionlist[0] =~ /^\W+$/ ) {
	$genprefix = shift (@optionlist);
	# Turn into regexp.
	$genprefix =~ s/(\W)/\\\1/g;
	$genprefix = "[" . $genprefix . "]";
    }

    # Verify correctness of optionlist.
    %opctl = ();
    foreach $opt ( @optionlist ) {
	$opt =~ tr/A-Z/a-z/ if $ignorecase;
	if ( $opt !~ /^(\w+[-\w|]*)?(!|[=:][infse]@?)?$/ ) {
	    die ("Error in option spec: \"", $opt, "\"\n");
	    $error++;
	    next;
	}
	local ($o, $c, $a) = ($1, $2);

	if ( ! defined $o ) {
	    $opctl{''} = defined $c ? $c : '';
	}
	else {
	    # Handle alias names
	    foreach ( split (/\|/, $o)) {
		if ( defined $c && $c eq '!' ) {
		    $opctl{"no$_"} = $c;
		    $c = '';
		}
		$opctl{$_} = defined $c ? $c : '';
		if ( defined $a ) {
		    # Note alias.
		    $aliases{$_} = $a;
		}
		else {
		    # Set primary name.
		    $a = $_;
		}
	    }
	}
    }
    @opctl = sort (keys (%opctl)) if $autoabbrev;

    return 0 if $error;

    if ( $debug ) {
	local ($arrow, $k, $v);
	$arrow = "=> ";
	while ( ($k,$v) = each(%opctl) ) {
	    print STDERR ($arrow, "\$opctl{\"$k\"} = \"$v\"\n");
	    $arrow = "   ";
	}
    }

    # Process argument list

    while ( $#ARGV >= 0 ) {

	# >>> See also the continue block <<<

	#### Get next argument ####

	$opt = shift (@ARGV);
	print STDERR ("=> option \"", $opt, "\"\n") if $debug;
	$arg = undef;
	$optarg = undef;
	$array = 0;

	#### Determine what we have ####

	# Double dash is option list terminator.
	if ( $opt eq $argend ) {
	    unshift (@ret, @ARGV) if $order == $PERMUTE;
	    return ($error == 0);
	}
	elsif ( $opt =~ /^$genprefix/ ) {
	    # Looks like an option.
	    $opt = $';		# option name (w/o prefix)
	    # If it is a long opt, it may include the value.
	    if (($+ eq "--" || ($getopt_compat && $+ eq "+")) && 
		$opt =~ /^([^=]+)=/ ) {
		$opt = $1;
		$optarg = $';
		print STDERR ("=> option \"", $opt, 
			      "\", optarg = \"$optarg\"\n")
		    if $debug;
	    }

	}
	# Not an option. Save it if we may permute...
	elsif ( $order == $PERMUTE ) {
	    push (@ret, $opt);
	    next;
	}
	# ...otherwise, terminate.
	else {
	    # Push back and exit.
	    unshift (@ARGV, $opt);
	    return ($error == 0);
	}

	#### Look it up ###

	$opt =~ tr/A-Z/a-z/ if $ignorecase;

	local ($tryopt) = $opt;
	if ( $autoabbrev ) {
	    local ($pat, @hits);

	    # Turn option name into pattern.
	    ($pat = $opt) =~ s/(\W)/\\\1/g;
	    # Look up in option names.
	    @hits = grep (/^$pat/, @opctl);
	    print STDERR ("=> ", 0+@hits, " hits (@hits) with \"$pat\" ",
			  "out of ", 0+@opctl, "\n")
		if $debug;

	    # Check for ambiguous results.
	    unless ( (@hits <= 1) || (grep ($_ eq $opt, @hits) == 1) ) {
		print STDERR ("Option ", $opt, " is ambiguous (",
			      join(", ", @hits), ")\n");
		$error++;
		next;
	    }

	    # Complete the option name, if appropriate.
	    if ( @hits == 1 && $hits[0] ne $opt ) {
		$tryopt = $hits[0];
		print STDERR ("=> option \"$opt\" -> \"$tryopt\"\n")
		    if $debug;
	    }
	}

	unless  ( defined ( $type = $opctl{$tryopt} ) ) {
	    print STDERR ("Unknown option: ", $opt, "\n");
	    $error++;
	    next;
	}
	$opt = $tryopt;
	print STDERR ("=> found \"$type\" for ", $opt, "\n") if $debug;

	#### Determine argument status ####

	# If it is an option w/o argument, we're almost finished with it.
	if ( $type eq '' || $type eq '!' ) {
	    if ( defined $optarg ) {
		print STDERR ("Option ", $opt, " does not take an argument\n");
		$error++;
	    }
	    elsif ( $type eq '' ) {
		$arg = 1;		# supply explicit value
	    }
	    else {
		substr ($opt, 0, 2) = ''; # strip NO prefix
		$arg = 0;		# supply explicit value
	    }
	    next;
	}

	# Get mandatory status and type info.
	($mand, $type, $array) = $type =~ /^(.)(.)(@?)$/;

	# Check if there is an option argument available.
	if ( defined $optarg ? ($optarg eq '') : ($#ARGV < 0) ) {

	    # Complain if this option needs an argument.
	    if ( $mand eq "=" ) {
		print STDERR ("Option ", $opt, " requires an argument\n");
		$error++;
	    }
	    if ( $mand eq ":" ) {
		$arg = $type eq "s" ? '' : 0;
	    }
	    next;
	}

	# Get (possibly optional) argument.
	$arg = defined $optarg ? $optarg : shift (@ARGV);

	#### Check if the argument is valid for this option ####

	if ( $type eq "s" ) {	# string
	    # A mandatory string takes anything. 
	    next if $mand eq "=";

	    # An optional string takes almost anything. 
	    next if defined $optarg;
	    next if $arg eq "-";

	    # Check for option or option list terminator.
	    if ($arg eq $argend ||
		$arg =~ /^$genprefix.+/) {
		# Push back.
		unshift (@ARGV, $arg);
		# Supply empty value.
		$arg = '';
	    }
	    next;
	}

	if ( $type eq "n" || $type eq "i" ) { # numeric/integer
	    if ( $arg !~ /^-?[0-9]+$/ ) {
		if ( defined $optarg || $mand eq "=" ) {
		    print STDERR ("Value \"", $arg, "\" invalid for option ",
				  $opt, " (number expected)\n");
		    $error++;
		    undef $arg;	# don't assign it
		}
		else {
		    # Push back.
		    unshift (@ARGV, $arg);
		    # Supply default value.
		    $arg = 0;
		}
	    }
	    next;
	}

	if ( $type eq "f" ) { # fixed real number, int is also ok
	    if ( $arg !~ /^-?[0-9.]+$/ ) {
		if ( defined $optarg || $mand eq "=" ) {
		    print STDERR ("Value \"", $arg, "\" invalid for option ",
				  $opt, " (real number expected)\n");
		    $error++;
		    undef $arg;	# don't assign it
		}
		else {
		    # Push back.
		    unshift (@ARGV, $arg);
		    # Supply default value.
		    $arg = 0.0;
		}
	    }
	    next;
	}

	die ("NGetOpt internal error (Can't happen)\n");
    }

    continue {
	if ( defined $arg ) {
	    $opt = $aliases{$opt} if defined $aliases{$opt};
	    # Make sure a valid perl identifier results.
	    $opt =~ s/\W/_/g;
	    if ( $array ) {
		print STDERR ('=> push (@', $pkg, '\'opt_', $opt, ", \"$arg\")\n")
		    if $debug;
	        eval ('push(@' . $pkg . '\'opt_' . $opt . ", \$arg);");
	    }
	    else {
		print STDERR ('=> $', $pkg, '\'opt_', $opt, " = \"$arg\"\n")
		    if $debug;
	        eval ('$' . $pkg . '\'opt_' . $opt . " = \$arg;");
	    }
	}
    }

    if ( $order == $PERMUTE && @ret > 0 ) {
	unshift (@ARGV, @ret);
    }
    return ($error == 0);
}

################ Package return ################

1;

################ End of newgetopt.pl ################

From Graham.Barr@tiuk.ti.com Tue May 23 05:18:02 1995
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From: Graham.Barr@tiuk.ti.com
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	id AA21600; Tue, 23 May 95 11:17:49 BST
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Date: Tue, 23 May 95 11:20:01 BST
Message-Id: <9505231020.AA15241@getafix>
To: js@biu.icnet.uk
Cc: perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Mail-RFC822-1.01a.tar.gz, Net-FTP-1.01a.tar.gz



ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/incoming/Mail-RFC822-1.01a.tar.gz
ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/incoming/Net-FTP-1.01a.tar.gz

Jack - please move to perlmods and annouce to perl5-porters and perl-packrats
when it is there.

Mail-RFC822-1.01a.tar.gz
 
 A new release including Tim's Mail::Send and Mail::Mailer and my new
 Mail::Address.

 Comments Please

Net-FTP-1.01a.tar.gz

 This distribution is very alpha. It is onlt intended to show people
 what/how much I have done and get back comments. I would
 prefer if this distribution did not get outside of
 perl5-porters

Regards,
Graham.
--
        .-----------------------------------------------------------.  
  ////  | Graham Barr                Email: bodg@tiuk.ti.com        |  \\\\ 
 |  00  | VLSI Cell Designer            or: bodg@ti.com             |  00  |
 O   ^  | MOS Design                TI MSG: BODG                    |  ^   O
  \ ~/  | Texas Instruments Ltd      Phone: +44 (0)1604 66 3419     |  \~ / 
        | ENGLAND                      Fax: +44 (0)1604 66 3456     |
        `-----------------------------------------------------------'

From js@biu.icnet.uk Tue May 23 06:59:26 1995
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Received: from moose.lif.icnet.uk.biu
           by bison.lif.icnet.uk; Tue, 23 May 95 13:01:30 BST
Message-Id: <9505231201.AA24477@bison.lif.icnet.uk>
Date: Tue, 23 May 95 13:01:30 BST
From: js@biu.icnet.uk (Jack Shirazi - BIU)
Sender: js@biu.icnet.uk
To: Graham.Barr@tiuk.ti.com
Subject: Re: Mail-RFC822-1.01a.tar.gz, Net-FTP-1.01a.tar.gz
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com

> ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/incoming/Mail-RFC822-1.01a.tar.gz
> ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/incoming/Net-FTP-1.01a.tar.gz
>
> Jack - please move to perlmods and annouce to perl5-porters and perl-packrats
> when it is there.

Now available at 
ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Mail-RFC822-1.01a.tar.gz
ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Net-FTP-1.01a.tar.gz

From merlyn@teleport.com Tue May 23 12:20:17 1995
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Date: Tue, 23 May 1995 05:20:17 -0700
From: "Randal L. Schwartz" <merlyn@teleport.com>
Message-Id: <199505231220.FAA00886@desiree.teleport.com>
To: perl-packrats@perl.com
Subject: [comp.lang.perl] Re: ROMAN NUM. -> INT Routine?
Reply-To: merlyn@stonehenge.com

------- Start of forwarded message -------
Path: nntp.teleport.com!psgrain!news.sprintlink.net!gatech!newsfeed.pitt.edu!uunet!tembel!not-for-mail
From: shields@tembel.org (Michael Shields)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl
Subject: Re: ROMAN NUM. -> INT Routine?
Date: 23 May 1995 06:04:23 -0000
Organization: Tembel's Hedonic Commune
Lines: 71
Message-ID: <3prtt7$ehq@yage.tembel.org>
References: <jat-2205951453310001@teunas.mitre.org> <SPP.95May22171522@squid.vx.com>
NNTP-Posting-Host: yage.tembel.org
NNTP-Posting-User: shields

In article <SPP.95May22171522@squid.vx.com>,
Stephen Potter <spp@squid.vx.com> wrote:
> This is basic code (no error correction).  However, it works for correctly
> formatted Roman numerals.  Does anyone remember if there was anything over
> 1000?  Maybe later I'll come up with an i2r.

You could write a bar over V through M to multiply them by a thousand
(for the census), but those characters don't exist in ASCII.

Here's a version with i2r().  Note that your version is broken without
`my $total', as it accidentally saves state.

Will there be a `use Roman' in 5.002?  :-)

#!/usr/bin/perl

# This array will still work with r2i().
%romans = (I => 1,   IV => 4,   V => 5,   IX => 9,
           X => 10,  XL => 40,  L => 50,  XC => 90,
           C => 100, CD => 400, D => 500, CM => 900,
           M => 1000);

sub i2r {
    my $barbarian = shift;
    my $roman;
    my $d;

    return "nihil" unless $barbarian;
    warn "$barbarian is unclassically large", return undef
        if $barbarian >= 4000;
    warn "$barbarian sub nihil est", return undef
	if $barbarian < 0;
    warn "$barbarian isn't integral", return undef
	if $barbarian =~ /\./;

    for $d (qw(M CM D CD C XC L XL X IX V IV I)) {
        $roman .= $d, $barbarian -= $romans{$d}
            while $barbarian >= $romans{$d};
    }

    return $roman;
}

sub r2i {
    my($roman) = shift;
    my $total, $x, @numbers;
    @numbers = split(//, $roman);
    foreach (@numbers) {
	s/$_/$romans{$_}/;
    }
    @numbers = reverse @numbers;
    while ($x = pop(@numbers)) {
	if ($x >= $numbers[$#numbers]) {
	    $total += $x;
	} else {
	    $add=pop(@numbers);
	    $add -= $x;
	    $total += $add;
	}
    }
    return $total;
}

# Examples:
for $i (5, 23, 42, 69, 100, 101, 104, 154, 1638, 2323, 3999) {
    $r = i2r($i);
    $back = r2i($r);
    print "$i -> $r -> $back\n";
}
- -- 
Shields.

------- End of forwarded message -------

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Mon Jun  5 20:34:08 1995
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Date: Mon, 5 Jun 1995 23:34:08 +0300
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Message-Id: <199506052034.XAA24957@vinkku.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com, perl5-porters@nicoh.com
Cc: wafe@wu-wien.ac.at
Subject: CPAN v0.000
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


I finally found some time to shuffle the building blocks of CPAN together.
(the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network, patterned after the CTAN for TeX)
The result is not pretty but hey, it is a start.

About 387 MB of Perl stuff: source code for Perl itself and auxiliary
stuff, scripts (LOTS of them), documentation, Perl for alien (non-UNIX)
platforms, you name it.

Now what we need is lots of work...what I did was to pull stuff from
about a dozen ftp sites and make some very rudimentary classification
and unification.  I weeded out the gross duplicates using MD5 websum
so blame the RSA if something was lost :-)  Because ftp.funet.fi was
somewhat my speciality I also did organized the alien ports in somewhat
more thoroughly than the other stuff but for

	- the scripts and
	- the documentation

we will need A LOT of work still.  People who know the stuff (Tom, Bill?)
might shed some light on them.  You will find the directory tree as it
now stand appended at the end of this message.

Misc notes about the structure, feel free to argue:

- if something is "clearly" perl4 or perl5, it is _physically_ under
  the top level perl4 or perl5 trees, it will be referenced _logically_
  from elsewhere, e.g.

		perl4/doc/eg/
		doc/eg/perl4 -> ../../perl4/doc/eg/
- the "alien" ports are named "bin/", a bad name because they might
  have also src stuff
- too much stuff at doc/misc/
- the scripts/ is very ugly right now: it simply has subdirs named
  after the original ftp hosts
- the ext/perl5/ has almost everything lumped together: should there
  be subdirs: Tk/, Sx/, MD5/, ... ?
- there are still duplicates _in_names_ and most of the time they
  are practically identical: for example a news article containing
  a script and then just the bare script
- the c.l.p article collections for cis.ufl are not included
- ...but the wafe stuff is, go figure...the wafe is alone 156MB,
  should it be left of the CPAN?
- I must confess that I probably destroyed much of the fine metronet
  gopher/html structure by cruelly zapping the various index stuff
  but I simply could not bother with carrying it around :-(
  Sorry about that Bill but I figured that in the final script
  hierarchy those indices would be outdated anyway...
- there are some "perl5/aux" stuff like GDBM and Berkeley DB source
  distributions, in the real CPAN they should mirrored

The whole tree is now at

	ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/.priv/CPAN/

The '.priv'-stretch is unreadable to keep nosy eyes (how's that
for a clumsy idiom) out.

Also, we will need to set up the mirroring scheme, which one will
be the CPAN hosts?  How should we integrate/merge the already-existing
specialised Perl ftp sites like the DBperl/the ftp.cs.ruu.nl refguide
stuff, the FAQ and MetaFAQ, manitoba MSDOS perl, wafe sites?
The "generic" perl sites like funet, metronet, src.doc.ic.ac.uk, cis.ufl,
maybe sunsite are simple enough, many of them will become CPAN sites, right?

4779	./perl4/src/4.036
3216	./perl4/src/patches
8003	./perl4/src
1072	./perl4/bin/amiga
457	./perl4/bin/atari
344	./perl4/bin/lynxos
2549	./perl4/bin/mac/mpw_c
279	./perl4/bin/mac/think_c
20	./perl4/bin/mac/scripts
5743	./perl4/bin/mac
5105	./perl4/bin/mpe
3815	./perl4/bin/msdos/perl4
98	./perl4/bin/msdos/tips-tricks
9424	./perl4/bin/msdos
185	./perl4/bin/mvs
137	./perl4/bin/netware
1800	./perl4/bin/os2
5277	./perl4/bin/vms
821	./perl4/bin/win-nt
5706	./perl4/bin/xenix
344	./perl4/bin/windows
36423	./perl4/bin
784	./perl4/man/4.036/man1
920	./perl4/man/4.036
928	./perl4/man
8	./perl4/ext/cursperl
62	./perl4/ext/snmp
145	./perl4/ext/usub
120	./perl4/ext/dbperl/dbperl/working_draft
199	./perl4/ext/dbperl/dbperl
208	./perl4/ext/dbperl
431	./perl4/ext
855	./perl4/doc/texinfo
21	./perl4/doc/eg/g
27	./perl4/doc/eg/scan
13	./perl4/doc/eg/sysvipc
14	./perl4/doc/eg/van
102	./perl4/doc/eg
8	./perl4/doc/license
712	./perl4/doc/refguide
1685	./perl4/doc
8	./perl4/reqfguide
8	./perl4/jperl1.3/4.019
176	./perl4/jperl1.3
48950	./perl4
463	./perl5/src/5.001/patches
1583	./perl5/src/5.001
362	./perl5/src/aux
1657	./perl5/src/5.000/patches
5481	./perl5/src/5.000
5045	./perl5/src/pre5.000/alpha
4385	./perl5/src/pre5.000/beta
9443	./perl5/src/pre5.000
16877	./perl5/src
8	./perl5/man/5.001/man1
16	./perl5/man/5.001
24	./perl5/man
8	./perl5/pod/5.001
16	./perl5/pod
8	./perl5/html/5.001
16	./perl5/html
2904	./perl5/bin/msdos
744	./perl5/bin/os2
3656	./perl5/bin
2647	./perl5/ext/tkperl/packages
49755	./perl5/ext/tkperl
53674	./perl5/ext
8	./perl5/doc/eg
21	./perl5/doc/license
130	./perl5/doc/refguide
519	./perl5/doc
8	./perl5/reqfguide
74798	./perl5
8	./doc/man
600	./doc/pod
8	./doc/html
8	./doc/refguide
20	./doc/tutorial/eg/convex
104	./doc/tutorial/eg
65	./doc/tutorial/slides
178	./doc/tutorial
40	./doc/c2ph
27	./doc/tips/perl5/changes
82	./doc/tips/perl5/extensions
72	./doc/tips/perl5/forms
110	./doc/tips/perl5/manual/modpods
2208	./doc/tips/perl5/manual
59	./doc/tips/perl5/old
71	./doc/tips/perl5/tkperl
3375	./doc/tips/perl5
3897	./doc/tips
153	./doc/vhll
421	./doc/faq/ftp.metronet.com
1323	./doc/faq
40	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/dist
104	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/instruc/lwall
195	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/instruc/evelse
130	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/instruc/unclassified
437	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/instruc
266	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/library
190	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/other-archives/coombs
150	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/other-archives/convex
407	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/other-archives
344	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/packrats/mailing-list
1283	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/packrats/www-info
1635	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/packrats
8	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/scripts
3197	./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com
1077	./doc/misc/ftp.cis.ufl.edu
6169	./doc/misc
138	./doc/books/oreilly/programming_perl
38	./doc/books/oreilly/learning_perl
184	./doc/books/oreilly
45	./doc/books/21days
237	./doc/books
8	./doc/texinfo
8	./doc/eg
18	./doc/license
367	./doc/texinfo-j
13239	./doc
88	./src/anlpasswd
416	./src/byacc
512	./src
23	./scripts/convex.com/clones
23	./scripts/convex.com/convex
14	./scripts/convex.com/h2pl
10	./scripts/convex.com/slides
820	./scripts/convex.com
17	./scripts/ahab.rutgers.edu/perl4
59	./scripts/ahab.rutgers.edu
156	./scripts/sunsite.unc.edu/scripts/man
390	./scripts/sunsite.unc.edu/scripts
402	./scripts/sunsite.unc.edu
454	./scripts/ftp.cis.ohio-state.edu
12	./scripts/ftp.metronet.com/sysvipc
8	./scripts/ftp.metronet.com/dbase
22	./scripts/ftp.metronet.com/infoserv/gopher/tools
30	./scripts/ftp.metronet.com/infoserv/gopher
38	./scripts/ftp.metronet.com/infoserv
8	./scripts/ftp.metronet.com/interfaces
8	./scripts/ftp.metronet.com/news
8	./scripts/ftp.metronet.com/text-processing
179	./scripts/ftp.metronet.com
29	./scripts/sra.co.jp/arpmon
2619	./scripts/sra.co.jp
838	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/admin
562	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/assorted
473	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/atari-perl
8	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/atari-perl
8	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/msdos-perl
160	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/old-ftp.funet.fi/tchrist
71	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/old-ftp.funet.fi/convex.com/info
188	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/old-ftp.funet.fi/convex.com/plum
35	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/old-ftp.funet.fi/convex.com/scripts
10	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/old-ftp.funet.fi/convex.com/tutorial/eg
18	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/old-ftp.funet.fi/convex.com/tutorial
320	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/old-ftp.funet.fi/convex.com
8	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/old-ftp.funet.fi/archive/tutorial
16	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/old-ftp.funet.fi/archive
573	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/old-ftp.funet.fi
8	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/perl-4.0.patches
14153	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs
60	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/date_and_time
51	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/dbase/oraperl/contrib
523	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/dbase/oraperl
1218	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/dbase
162	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/doc
68	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/file-handling
22	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/findstuff
412	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/ftpstuff
17	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv/wais
53	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv/misc
151	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv/gopher/tools/gee
12	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv/gopher/tools/tstb
17	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv/gopher/tools/gophertree
15	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv/gopher/tools/gopherhunt
27	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv/gopher/tools/gopher2ftp
405	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv/gopher/tools
13	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv/gopher/clients
89	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv/gopher/servers/go4gw
124	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv/gopher/servers
550	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv/gopher
109	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv/WWW
737	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/infoserv
106	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/interfaces/curseperl/menu.pl
119	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/interfaces/curseperl/forms
239	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/interfaces/curseperl
13	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/interfaces/pwindows
426	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/interfaces
2055	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/mac-perl
1174	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/mailstuff
313	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/manstuff
16	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/math.and.stat.stuff
13	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/msdos-perl
25	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/netstuff/chat2
49	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/netstuff/dns.bind
44	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/netstuff/easyserve
528	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/netstuff
128	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/news/nntpstuff/aub
20	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/news/nntpstuff/dbzperl
281	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/news/nntpstuff
751	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/news
11	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/nutshell/ch7
39	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/nutshell/ch6
58	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/nutshell
412	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/oraperl.2
1661	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/perl-4.0.patches
706	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/perl5.0/perl5a
366	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/perl5.0/perl5beta.patches
1954	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/perl5.0/extensions
28028	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/perl5.0
63	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/process-handling
443	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/text-processing
63479	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi
58	./scripts/src.doc.ic.ac.uk/PerlBits/scripts
376	./scripts/src.doc.ic.ac.uk/PerlBits/perl-users
443	./scripts/src.doc.ic.ac.uk/PerlBits
25	./scripts/src.doc.ic.ac.uk/coombs-scripts/misc
33	./scripts/src.doc.ic.ac.uk/coombs-scripts
484	./scripts/src.doc.ic.ac.uk
804	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/bbs/drealm
812	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/bbs
16	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/administrative
34	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/pgperl
171	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/uniperl
55	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/isqlperl/contrib
285	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/isqlperl
96	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/interperl
282	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/rdb
44	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/btreeperl
191	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/ctreeperl
78	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/shql
2468	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/dbperl/perldb-interest
129	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/dbperl/working_draft
2872	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/dbperl
27	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/oraperl
716	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/sybperl
12	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/ingperl/sqlperl
149	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/ingperl
31	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/sqlperl/old
55	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db/sqlperl
5010	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/db
12	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/h2pl
374	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/muir
593	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/plexus
14	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu/sys
9725	./scripts/ftp.cis.ufl.edu
78229	./scripts
168	./ext/db/DBD/Oracle
177	./ext/db/DBD
1332	./ext/db/DBI/perldb-interest
2013	./ext/db/DBI
44	./ext/db/btreeperl
10	./ext/db/duaperl
163	./ext/db/formats
37	./ext/db/ingperl/sqlperl
8	./ext/db/ingperl/contrib
146	./ext/db/ingperl
759	./ext/db/mod/Sybperl
15	./ext/db/mod/Pg
132	./ext/db/mod/Sybase
941	./ext/db/mod
8	./ext/db/perl4/uniperl/contrib
94	./ext/db/perl4/uniperl
8	./ext/db/perl4/sybperl/contrib
71	./ext/db/perl4/sybperl
30	./ext/db/perl4/pgperl
73	./ext/db/perl4/oraperl/contrib
100	./ext/db/perl4/oraperl/patches
614	./ext/db/perl4/oraperl
55	./ext/db/perl4/isqlperl/contrib
193	./ext/db/perl4/isqlperl
8	./ext/db/perl4/interperl/contrib
70	./ext/db/perl4/interperl
37	./ext/db/perl4/ingperl/sqlperl
8	./ext/db/perl4/ingperl/contrib
105	./ext/db/perl4/ingperl
10	./ext/db/perl4/duaperl
191	./ext/db/perl4/ctreeperl
44	./ext/db/perl4/btreeperl
117	./ext/db/perl4/cisamperl
1548	./ext/db/perl4
191	./ext/db/ctreeperl
141	./ext/db/refinfo/sqlsyntax
198	./ext/db/refinfo/formats
147	./ext/db/refinfo/sql2/syntax
2072	./ext/db/refinfo/sql2
1259	./ext/db/refinfo/standards
19	./ext/db/refinfo/rda
216	./ext/db/refinfo/sql3
1088	./ext/db/refinfo/fips
5442	./ext/db/refinfo
18	./ext/db/scripts/xbase
1211	./ext/db/scripts/rdb
17	./ext/db/scripts/shql/patches
84	./ext/db/scripts/shql
1321	./ext/db/scripts
17	./ext/db/shql/patches
25	./ext/db/shql
224	./ext/db/sqlsyntax
40	./ext/db/web/tpb
29	./ext/db/web/gbarr
78	./ext/db/web
1920	./ext/db/tmp
14780	./ext/db
14788	./ext
8	./bin
156504	./wafe
94	./emacs
387130	.

++jhi;

From Matthew.Green@fulcrum.com.au Tue Jun  6 03:41:43 1995
Received: from yarrina.connect.com.au by metronet.com with SMTP id AA23190
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Subject: Re: CPAN v0.000 
From: matthew green <Matthew.Green@fulcrum.com.au>
In-Reply-To: Jarkko Hietaniemi's message <199506052034.XAA24957@vinkku.hut.fi> of Mon, 05 Jun 1995 23:34:08 +0300.
References: <199506052034.XAA24957@vinkku.hut.fi> 
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 1995 13:41:43 +1000
Sender: Matthew.Green@fulcrum.com.au



this is a good idea, but i found this particularly amusing:

   573	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/old-ftp.funet.fi

funet -> coombs -> funet  :-)

.mrg.

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Tue Jun  6 06:58:03 1995
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Subject: REEPH (Was: Re: CPAN v0.000)
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matthew green <Matthew.Green@fulcrum.com.au>:
> this is a good idea, but i found this particularly amusing:
> 
>    573	./scripts/ftp.funet.fi/coombs/old-ftp.funet.fi
> 
> funet -> coombs -> funet  :-)

Just goes to show (at least) two things:

	1) the coombs archive was such a great place that
	   it was worth mirroring
	2) funet had some value in it, too :-)

Well, three:

	3) we _really_ need to sort this thing out before we
	   get too deep to the Mirrorland...

So, I guess the first thing we should do is that some U.S. site would
mirror the current version in funet so that folks in there could start
working towards v0.001.  The second thing to do would be waiting
for the archivist volunteers to come out of the woodwork / from under
their favourite stones...  After the people of stage #2 (the REEPH archivists)
have shaped the stage#1 (the REEPH v0.001)  The third thing would be to
set up the REEPH network itself, automate the mirroring.  The fourth
thing would be to ... suggestions?

++jhi;

From m.koster@nexor.co.uk Tue Jun  6 07:42:20 1995
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN v0.000 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 05 Jun 1995 23:34:08 +0300."             <199506052034.XAA24957@vinkku.hut.fi> 
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 1995 08:42:20 +0100
From: Martijn Koster <m.koster@nexor.co.uk>

In message <199506052034.XAA24957@vinkku.hut.fi>, Jarkko Hietaniemi writes:

> 
> I finally found some time to shuffle the building blocks of CPAN together.
> (the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network, patterned after the CTAN for TeX)
> The result is not pretty but hey, it is a start.

Excellent, much needed work.
 
> - the ext/perl5/ has almost everything lumped together: should there
>   be subdirs: Tk/, Sx/, MD5/, ... ?

Yes please. I'd very much like to see separate directories for
products, so that they can have their own index.html -- then
you would not only have FTP stuff sorted, but WWW too. For example,
one could have

MD5/index.html
MD5/README.html
MD5/README.txt
MD5/MD5-1.4.tar.gz
MD5/MD5-1.5a.tar.gz

etc.

> Also, we will need to set up the mirroring scheme, which one will
> be the CPAN hosts?

Sorry, can't help...

> How should we integrate/merge the already-existing
> specialised Perl ftp sites like the DBperl/the ftp.cs.ruu.nl refguide
> stuff, the FAQ and MetaFAQ, manitoba MSDOS perl, wafe sites?

The FAQ should be mirrored from rtfm.mit. 

> The "generic" perl sites like funet, metronet, src.doc.ic.ac.uk, cis.ufl,
> maybe sunsite are simple enough, many of them will become CPAN sites, right?

One would hope so. 

Best of luck,

-- Martijn
__________
Internet: m.koster@nexor.co.uk
X-400: C=GB; A= ; P=Nexor; O=Nexor; S=koster; I=M
WWW: http://web.nexor.co.uk/mak/mak.html

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Tue Jun  6 08:48:56 1995
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To minimise the traffic in the porters list I suggest that only
the packrats list be used for the REEPH discussion from now on.
Yes, I know, I myself started the discussion in both lists but
that was deliberate: I vaguely remember that some of the people
that should/might well be in both lists were only on the porters list?
If so, the packrats list subscription address is:

	perl-packrats-request@feenix.metronet.com

(I hope I got that right...)

++jhi;

P.S.  To snidely support my own suggestion, REEPH, for the name this
      archiving project, the new URL to follow is now:

	ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/.priv/REEPH/

      As I have not so far got any replies of the kind "yes, I am about
      to mirror it right now", I assume that no one is doing that right
      now so renaming won't hurt.

From neilb@zen.khoros.unm.edu Tue Jun  6 16:03:33 1995
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From: neilb@khoral.com (Neil Bowers)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 10:03:33 MDT
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Subject: cpan name
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I didn't sit on any bus to think of this, and it shows:

        EYEKAP - Everything You Ever wanted to Know About Perl

Ok, so I haven't had my first cuppa joe yet.

neilb

From jared@math.hmc.edu Tue Jun  6 15:36:16 1995
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Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 08:36:16 -0700
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From: Jared Rhine <Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu>
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, perl5-porters@nicoh.com
Subject: CPAN: Extensions structure
References: <199506052034.XAA24957@vinkku.hut.fi>
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One suggestion I would like to make regarding the Perl 5 extensions section
of the CPAN structure: why not make the directory structure analogous to the
Perl 5 Modules list?  In addition to including subdirectories for individual
extensions, as suggested:

  JH> the ext/perl5/ has almost everything lumped together: should there be
  JH> subdirs: Tk/, Sx/, MD5/, ... ?

we should probably have a structure like:

  perl5/ext
    os
      Fcntl
      Errno
    net
    ipc
    database-util
    database-interfaces
    user-interfaces
    [...]
    Web
      HTML
      HTTP
      CGI
    [...]
    security
      des
      md5

whatever; you get the idea.  It isn't clear that the Perl 5 Modules List
structure will map well into a directory structure; in that case, it might
be worth while to restructure the list into something that _will_ map well.

-- 
Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu / HMC / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home>

"Argue for your limitations, and you get to keep them." -- Richard Bach

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Tue Jun  6 19:19:27 1995
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Subject: Re: cpan name
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 20:19:27 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
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My suggestion:

ARK	Archive of Reusable Knowledge.
	The Perl ARK.
	Sounds like arc, contraction of archive.
	Can be corrupted into 'Checkout the Perl ARKive' (Eeek!)
	Vaguely meaningful biblical mnemonic 'It's all in the ARK' (Double Eeek!)
	It's a real word.
	It's short.
	It's memorable.
	[Er, that's enough reasons]

:-)

Tim.

p.s. Very glad to see something happening. I hope the thesis went well Jarkko.

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Tue Jun  6 19:36:02 1995
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN v0.000
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 20:36:02 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
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> From: Martijn Koster <m.koster@nexor.co.uk>
> 
> In message <199506052034.XAA24957@vinkku.hut.fi>, Jarkko Hietaniemi writes:
> 
> > - the ext/perl5/ has almost everything lumped together: should there
> >   be subdirs: Tk/, Sx/, MD5/, ... ?
> 
> Yes please. I'd very much like to see separate directories for
> products, so that they can have their own index.html -- then
> you would not only have FTP stuff sorted, but WWW too. For example,
> one could have
> 
> MD5/index.html
> MD5/README.html
> MD5/README.txt
> MD5/MD5-1.4.tar.gz
> MD5/MD5-1.5a.tar.gz
> etc.
> 
I agree. This is very important.

Similarly, nested modules (Foo::Bar) should be nested (Foo/Bar/Foo-Bar-1.0.tar.Z)

> > How should we integrate/merge the already-existing
> > specialised Perl ftp sites like the DBperl/the ftp.cs.ruu.nl refguide
> > stuff, the FAQ and MetaFAQ, manitoba MSDOS perl, wafe sites?
> 
Several (very old) copies of my db archive are included in your
directory list.  They are easily recognisable. I'd delete them all
and take a fresh copy from ftp.demon.co.uk.

> > The "generic" perl sites like funet, metronet, src.doc.ic.ac.uk, cis.ufl,
> > maybe sunsite are simple enough, many of them will become CPAN sites, right?
> 
Talk to Lee McLoughlin <lmjm@doc.ic.ac.uk> (the maintainer of 'mirror') about
src.doc.ic.ac.uk. I'm sure he'll be helpful (especially if you test the
latest beta release of mirror-2.6 for him :-)

Tim.

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Tue Jun  6 19:27:28 1995
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi, Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu
Subject: Re: CPAN: Extensions structure
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 20:27:28 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
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> From: Jared Rhine <Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu>
> 
> One suggestion I would like to make regarding the Perl 5 extensions section
> of the CPAN structure: why not make the directory structure analogous to the
> Perl 5 Modules list?  In addition to including subdirectories for individual
> extensions, as suggested:
> [...]
> whatever; you get the idea.  It isn't clear that the Perl 5 Modules List
> structure will map well into a directory structure; in that case, it might
> be worth while to restructure the list into something that _will_ map well.
> 
This is an interesting idea for the future but is best ignored for now.

In the medium term some work Andreas is doing to automate the Module
List (via WWW) should enable a parallel Module List based tree of
symlinks to be _automatically_ maintained.

Tim.

Follow-up to perl-packrats@metronet.com.

From merlyn@teleport.com Tue Jun  6 20:13:35 1995
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Subject: Re: CPAN
Date: Tue, 06 Jun 1995 13:13:35 -0700
From: "Randal L. Schwartz" <merlyn@teleport.com>

My suggestion:

Please don't wire "perl4" and "perl5" into any high part of any hierarchy.

Perl *is* perl5, and perl6, and perl7, and so on.

Modules are simply modules.  Not "perl5 modules".  The fact that they
work only with perl5.000 or later is just like a ".pl" file that works
only with perl4.019 or later.  It's just a restriction of use.

So, the top level should have "src".  Under that, have the perl5.001i
tar, and maybe a directory called "old" for previous versions
(including but not limited to perl4.036).

IMHO.  of course.

Name: Randal L. Schwartz / Stonehenge Consulting Services (503)777-0095
Keywords: Perl training, UNIX[tm] consulting, video production, skiing, flying
Email: <merlyn@stonehenge.com> Snail: (Call) PGP-Key: (finger merlyn@ora.com)
Web: <A HREF="http://www.teleport.com/~merlyn/">My Home Page!</A>

From eichin@cygnus.com Tue Jun  6 20:43:47 1995
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Subject: Re: CPAN


> Modules are simply modules.  Not "perl5 modules".  The fact that they

Well, they certainly aren't perl4 modules...

There's a solid enough base of things that work under perl4 (and
people running perl4) that there really *should* be something to
clearly indicate what stuff can be expected to work under perl4 and
what stuff can't. And perl5 has lots of wonderful new features that
people use (intentionally or not) that just don't work in perl4.

Consider, perhaps, that the name can be construed as "minimal release
of perl that this will work with" -- that "mere restriction of use" is
critical to those of us who are actually doing the using..

If perl4 were a "dead" version, that would be something else... but
when people are saying "such&such works under perl 4 or if you use
perl 5, it has to have unofficial patches a-f" perl 4 still has a life
ahead of it :-)
						_Mark_

ps. I'm glad to see the archive, no matter *how* it gets organized :-) 

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Tue Jun  6 20:03:27 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN v0.000
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 21:03:27 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
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> From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
> 
> About 387 MB of Perl stuff: source code for Perl itself and auxiliary
> stuff, scripts (LOTS of them), documentation, Perl for alien (non-UNIX)
> platforms, you name it.
> 
Some of that is multiple copies of my db archive (delete them)

> - the "alien" ports are named "bin/", a bad name because they might
>   have also src stuff

Why not call it "ports/"? Especially since that's the word everyone uses
and understands.

> - the ext/perl5/ has almost everything lumped together: should there
>   be subdirs: Tk/, Sx/, MD5/, ... ?

Yes (see other message). This is very important.

> How should we integrate/merge the already-existing
> specialised Perl ftp sites like the DBperl

I saw that as being something like

	x.y.z  --- \                     / ---> 
	a.b.c  ---  ---> CPAN Master --->  --->  CPAN mirrors
	p.q.r  --- /                     \ --->
     (specialised archives)

But maybe I just don't understand the CPAN concept.

With regard to directory naming, some general thoughts...

    ports/archname/...   Use Configure $archname or $osname where practical
    mod/...              Modules _and_ extensions (don't distinguish)
    dist/5.00x/...       Official releases and patches
    misc/patches/        Unofficial patches

Tim.

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Tue Jun  6 21:19:39 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
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funet draft-CPAN closed for work...I am reorganizing the stuff
according to your suggestions -- but please do keep ideas flowing.
I will also try to set up the 'pull stuff from non-CPAN sites' (FAQ,
MetaFAQ, DB, ...) mirrorings so that they will stay uptodate.

About Wafe I am myself of the opinion that we leave only a pointer to it
and do not drag all of it with CPAN.  But how about the c.l.p archives
of UFL?  Florida folks, yu-huu?

++jhi;

From kjahds@kjahds.com Tue Jun  6 20:37:45 1995
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From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN v0.000
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On Tue, 6 Jun 1995, Tim Bunce wrote:

> > one could have
> > 
> > MD5/index.html
> > MD5/README.html
> > MD5/README.txt
> > MD5/MD5-1.4.tar.gz
> > MD5/MD5-1.5a.tar.gz
> > etc.
> > 
> I agree. This is very important.
> 
> Similarly, nested modules (Foo::Bar) should be nested (Foo/Bar/Foo-Bar-1.0.tar.Z)

It sounds like we want two separate hierarchies, flat and nested:

 ext-flat/Foom.taz
 ext-flat/Foo-Baz.taz
 ext-flat/Tk.taz
 ext-flat/Tcl-Tk.taz
 ext/Foo/Baz/Foo-Baz.taz
 ext/Foom/Foom.taz
 ext/Tk/Tk.taz
 ext/Tcl/Tk/Tcl-Tk.taz

etc. Since the Module list WWW web site is organized by nested names, I 
suppose those should be the real files, and flat should be links.

> 
> Tim.
> 

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From k@uriela.in-berlin.de Tue Jun  6 16:53:44 1995
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From: k@uriela.in-berlin.de (Andreas Koenig)
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9506062045.ab19182@post.demon.co.uk> (message from Tim Bunce on Tue, 6 Jun 1995 20:27:28 +0100)
Subject: Re: CPAN: Extensions structure
Reply-To: koenig@franz.ww.tu-berlin.de

  >From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>

  >In the medium term some work Andreas is doing to automate the Module
  >List (via WWW) should enable a parallel Module List based tree of
  >symlinks to be _automatically_ maintained.

I'm far behind my intended time frame for the automated module
list. That's odd, but I hope my work was not complete useless.

The idea was to have a dialog server for the module writers, where
they deposit the very minimal information needed for the
Reephers. I think of just one URL that they provide as soon as a new
version is available. Some writers have already provided their
information, and I got some positive feedback. It should be feasible,
that both a module list and a very quick propagation of new modules be
realized with such a scheme. We should have means to cancel the
propagation as well :)

For now I have built a tar file of the module list as being based on
version 2.4 of Tim's list. Get it from
ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/pub/perl/Modulelist.0606.tar.gz. Or visit
the http version directly on http://franz..../Modulelist. (User WM,
password WM illustrates the functionality behind the link "write
access").

Thank you, Jarkko, and greetings to your bus dripher,
andreas



From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Tue Jun  6 23:05:10 1995
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I think I can now, initially, handle everything but the scripts --
quite simply I do not have the stomach for it :-) My suggestion would
be that Bill (of Metronet) would merge the pieces worth saving,
if any, into his already excellent script structure those bits and
pieces I have found from elsewhere and that would be the CPAN script
structure?  Bill?

One particularly ugly (=slow, painstaking, etc) thing with scripts
and stuff is that they may be news articles, shars, uuencoded, or
their combinations and cleaning them up is booooriiiinggg...

The script directories are also not true to their name: they have
many pieces of documentation: tutorials, tips, hints, etc.
Hmmm...even some binaries in ftp.funet.fi scripts area, I have
been naughty, it seems...

I took all the stuff from scripts/ except the metronet and
put it up for ftp as


	ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/.priv/scripts.tar.gz

Any takers?  Only 7.3 MB -- but you'll need the metronet to go with it.

++jhi;

BTW: I made some obvious cleanups like throwing out about umpteen
     slightly varying versions of perl-4.036.tar and old versions
     of this and that when I could clearly see that there are newer
     versions available.  I also threw Wafe out and now we are down
     to about 170 MB.

From jared@math.hmc.edu Wed Jun  7 00:21:56 1995
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From: Jared Rhine <Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu>
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN v0.000
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[Citation date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 21:03:27 +0100]
TB == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>

  TB> I saw that as being something like
  TB> 
  TB>   x.y.z  --- \                     / ---> 
  TB>   a.b.c  ---  ---> CPAN Master --->  --->  CPAN mirrors
  TB>   p.q.r  --- /                     \ --->
  TB>      (specialised archives)

Yes, although I suppose we should allow authors to request that packages not
be included in the ARK.  In that case, all that should be in the ARK
directory structure would be text-file pointer to the real archive.

  TB> With regard to directory naming, some general thoughts...
  TB> 
  TB> ports/archname/...  Use Configure $archname or $osname where practical
  TB> mod/...              Modules _and_ extensions (don't distinguish)
  TB> dist/5.00x/...       Official releases and patches

I support all of these.

  TB> misc/patches/        Unofficial patches

I think patches should be more prominent.  Any reason it should go under
'/dist'?

-- 
Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu / HMC / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home>

"Sometimes you're the windshield; sometimes you're the bug."
  -- Dire Straits

From wjm  Tue Jun  6 23:38:29 1995
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From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 23:38:13 -0500
In-Reply-To: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
       "somebody who knows the scripts?" (Jun  7,  2:05am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: somebody who knows the scripts?
Cc: perl-packrats

On Jun 7,  2:05am, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
} Subject: somebody who knows the scripts?
} 

} I think I can now, initially, handle everything but the scripts --
} quite simply I do not have the stomach for it :-) My suggestion would
} be that Bill (of Metronet) would merge the pieces worth saving,
} if any, into his already excellent script structure those bits and
} pieces I have found from elsewhere and that would be the CPAN script
} structure?  Bill?

If there are no objections.  I think this archive could be a partial
template, at least in terms of content,  but as I've said before, I'll 
conform the structure to the prevailing opinion.

} One particularly ugly (=slow, painstaking, etc) thing with scripts
} and stuff is that they may be news articles, shars, uuencoded, or
} their combinations and cleaning them up is booooriiiinggg...

Heh.
 
} I took all the stuff from scripts/ except the metronet and
} put it up for ftp as
} 
} 
} 	ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/.priv/scripts.tar.gz
} 
} Any takers?  Only 7.3 MB -- but you'll need the metronet to go with it.

I'll grab it tomorrow and start to see how well it merges into what 
I've got here.  I wont actually make the merge here physically, until 
we can concur.  I'd certainly encourage anyone else who has an interest 
to make suggestions or take a crack at it yourself.  I'm actually swamped,
with the migration of a bunch of groups from all over the world to
the new Moto facility here.  Multisite VOBs from hell, and new tools, toys,
and even OS to learn/support.  Not to mention the pod2html needs another
upgrade...  this may take me awhile.  Sorry to whine.


} ++jhi;
} 
} BTW: I made some obvious cleanups like throwing out about umpteen
}      slightly varying versions of perl-4.036.tar and old versions
}      of this and that when I could clearly see that there are newer
}      versions available.  I also threw Wafe out and now we are down
}      to about 170 MB.

Thats great.  I think I can actually get the Management here at metronet to
go for that size.  


Thanks for getting this ball rolling again, Jarkko.

Bill


From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Wed Jun  7 14:00:11 1995
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To: kjahds@kjahds.com
Subject: Re: CPAN v0.000
Cc: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:00:11 +0100
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> From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
> 
> On Tue, 6 Jun 1995, Tim Bunce wrote:
> 
> > Similarly, nested modules (Foo::Bar) should be nested (Foo/Bar/Foo-Bar-1.0.tar.Z)
> 
> It sounds like we want two separate hierarchies, flat and nested:
> 
>  ext-flat/Foom.taz
>  ext-flat/Foo-Baz.taz
>  ext-flat/Tk.taz
>  ext-flat/Tcl-Tk.taz
>  ext/Foo/Baz/Foo-Baz.taz
>  ext/Foom/Foom.taz
>  ext/Tk/Tk.taz
>  ext/Tcl/Tk/Tcl-Tk.taz
> 
Umm, I don't see much value in that. Especially since the authors of Bar::Foo
and Baz::Foo may both ship tar files called Foo.tar.Z.

> Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)
> 
Tim.

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Wed Jun  7 14:13:12 1995
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To: Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu
Subject: Re: CPAN v0.000
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:13:12 +0100
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> From: Jared Rhine <Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu>
> 
> [Citation date: Tue, 6 Jun 1995 21:03:27 +0100]
> TB == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
> 
>   TB> With regard to directory naming, some general thoughts...
>   TB> 
>   TB> ports/archname/...  Use Configure $archname or $osname where practical
>   TB> mod/...              Modules _and_ extensions (don't distinguish)
>   TB> dist/5.00x/...       Official releases and patches
> 
> I support all of these.
> 
>   TB> misc/patches/        Unofficial patches
> 
> I think patches should be more prominent.  Any reason it should go under
> '/dist'?
> 
Lot's of people post patches. I'd suggest that only patches from Larry
and Andy go into dist/5.00x/patches/.

Other random patches implementing experimental ideas could go into
misc/patches/5.00x.

I'm just keen that dist/ is seen as Official, Clean and Safe.

> Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu / HMC / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home>
> 
Tim.

From jared@math.hmc.edu Wed Jun  7 21:30:04 1995
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From: Jared Rhine <Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: ARK patches directory
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[Citation date: Wed, 7 Jun 1995 15:13:12 +0100]
TB == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>

  TB> misc/patches/        Unofficial patches

  JR> I think patches should be more prominent.  Any reason it should go
  JR> under '/dist'?

  TB> Lot's of people post patches. I'd suggest that only patches from Larry
  TB> and Andy go into dist/5.00x/patches/.

Uh, whoops.  I didn't see the 'unofficial' in "unofficial patches".  In that
case, you are correct of course.

  TB> Other random patches implementing experimental ideas could go into
  TB> misc/patches/5.00x.

I'll buy that, too, although I might prefer a directory name like
'unofficial-patches'.  However, since I use Emacs Dired instead of ftp
clients, I'm not as averse to long file names as some people :)

  TB> I'm just keen that dist/ is seen as Official, Clean and Safe.

Agreed.

-- 
Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu / HMC / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home>

"Prohibition goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a
 man's appetite by legislation and makes crimes out of things that are not
 crimes. A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which
 our government was founded." -- Abraham Lincoln

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Thu Jun  8 12:39:47 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
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Reorganisation and cleanup going on.  I have tried to follow your
ideas (of course filtered through my own personal biases :-).
Per Randal, the perl4 vs perl5 vs perln difference is being ironed
out, next I'll see to the doc-differences.  The scripts-part
is completely missing from this list, Bill is trying to do something
about them.  Their size will be about 25-35 MB (uncompressed), I guess.
The ext-business I haven't still touched.  There is no top-level dist/
but there is src/dist/.

Few questions, answers would be nice:

	- there are various unofficial patches for 4.036 floating
	  out there, for example Digital UNIX (nee OSF/1) needs a few.
	  If you have any or know where such beasts exist, please do tell.
	- anybody know where the Official perl-byacc ftp site is?
	  There are numerous copies according to archie but where
	  is the site we should be mirroring?
	- ditto for the MetaFAQ (the FAQ mirror will be from prep.ai.mit.edu,
	  right? (unless the master site for the docs part would be funet
	  because we mirror prep anyway already...))
	- ditto for anlpasswd

Here is the mirror plan so far:

O'Reilly	ftp.ora.com:examples/nutshell/{learning,programming}_perl
DB		ftp.demon.co.uk:/pub/perl/db
FAQ		prep.ai.mit.edu:/pub/usenet-by-hierarchy/comp/lang/perl
Berkeley DB	ftp.cs.berkeley.edu:/4bsd/db.*.tar.gz
GDBM		prep.ai.mit.edu:/pub/gnu/gdbm-*.tar.gz

784     ./perl4/man/4.036/man1
920     ./perl4/man/4.036
928     ./perl4/man
8       ./perl4/ext/cursperl
62      ./perl4/ext/snmp
145     ./perl4/ext/usub
223     ./perl4/ext
855     ./perl4/doc/texinfo
21      ./perl4/doc/eg/g
27      ./perl4/doc/eg/scan
13      ./perl4/doc/eg/sysvipc
14      ./perl4/doc/eg/van
102     ./perl4/doc/eg
8       ./perl4/doc/license
712     ./perl4/doc/refguide
1685    ./perl4/doc
8       ./perl4/reqfguide
4140    ./perl4
8       ./perl5/man/5.001/man1
16      ./perl5/man/5.001
24      ./perl5/man
8       ./perl5/pod/5.001
16      ./perl5/pod
8       ./perl5/html/5.001
16      ./perl5/html
2647    ./perl5/ext/tkperl/packages
6131    ./perl5/ext/tkperl
10133   ./perl5/ext
8       ./perl5/doc/eg
21      ./perl5/doc/license
130     ./perl5/doc/refguide
519     ./perl5/doc
8       ./perl5/reqfguide
10724   ./perl5
8       ./doc/man
600     ./doc/pod
8       ./doc/html
8       ./doc/refguide
20      ./doc/tutorial/eg/convex
104     ./doc/tutorial/eg
65      ./doc/tutorial/slides
178     ./doc/tutorial
40      ./doc/c2ph
27      ./doc/tips/perl5/changes
82      ./doc/tips/perl5/extensions
72      ./doc/tips/perl5/forms
110     ./doc/tips/perl5/manual/modpods
2208    ./doc/tips/perl5/manual
59      ./doc/tips/perl5/old
71      ./doc/tips/perl5/tkperl
3375    ./doc/tips/perl5
3897    ./doc/tips
153     ./doc/vhll
421     ./doc/faq/ftp.metronet.com
1323    ./doc/faq
40      ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/dist
104     ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/instruc/lwall
195     ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/instruc/evelse
130     ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/instruc/unclassified
437     ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/instruc
266     ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/library
190     ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/other-archives/coombs
133     ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/other-archives/convex
390     ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/other-archives
344     ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/packrats/mailing-list
1283    ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/packrats/www-info
1635    ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/packrats
8       ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com/scripts
3180    ./doc/misc/ftp.metronet.com
1059    ./doc/misc/ftp.cis.ufl.edu
6093    ./doc/misc
138     ./doc/books/oreilly/programming_perl
38      ./doc/books/oreilly/learning_perl
184     ./doc/books/oreilly
45      ./doc/books/21days
237     ./doc/books
8       ./doc/texinfo
8       ./doc/eg
18      ./doc/license
367     ./doc/texinfo-j
13094   ./doc
362     ./src/aux
88      ./src/anlpasswd
53      ./src/jperl
91      ./src/byacc
4656    ./src/dist
8       ./src/patches/unofficial
271     ./src/patches/official/5.000
238     ./src/patches/official/5.001
248     ./src/patches/official/perl5alpha
237     ./src/patches/official/perl5beta
1002    ./src/patches/official
1018    ./src/patches
6276    ./src
1102    ./ext/db/DBI/perldb-interest
1730    ./ext/db/DBI
9       ./ext/db/perl4/uniperl/contrib
96      ./ext/db/perl4/uniperl
9       ./ext/db/perl4/sybperl/contrib
73      ./ext/db/perl4/sybperl
31      ./ext/db/perl4/pgperl
74      ./ext/db/perl4/oraperl/contrib
102     ./ext/db/perl4/oraperl/patches
622     ./ext/db/perl4/oraperl
56      ./ext/db/perl4/isqlperl/contrib
195     ./ext/db/perl4/isqlperl
9       ./ext/db/perl4/interperl/contrib
72      ./ext/db/perl4/interperl
38      ./ext/db/perl4/ingperl/sqlperl
9       ./ext/db/perl4/ingperl/contrib
109     ./ext/db/perl4/ingperl
11      ./ext/db/perl4/duaperl
192     ./ext/db/perl4/ctreeperl
45      ./ext/db/perl4/btreeperl
28      ./ext/db/perl4/cisamperl
1485    ./ext/db/perl4
19      ./ext/db/scripts/xbase
629     ./ext/db/scripts/rdb
18      ./ext/db/scripts/shql/patches
86      ./ext/db/scripts/shql
743     ./ext/db/scripts
142     ./ext/db/mod/Sybperl
16      ./ext/db/mod/Pg
133     ./ext/db/mod/Sybase
327     ./ext/db/mod
154     ./ext/db/DBD/Oracle
164     ./ext/db/DBD
143     ./ext/db/refinfo/sqlsyntax
199     ./ext/db/refinfo/formats
1261    ./ext/db/refinfo/standards
149     ./ext/db/refinfo/sql2/syntax
2075    ./ext/db/refinfo/sql2
20      ./ext/db/refinfo/rda
217     ./ext/db/refinfo/sql3
1089    ./ext/db/refinfo/fips
5455    ./ext/db/refinfo
18      ./ext/db/shql/patches
27      ./ext/db/shql
45      ./ext/db/btreeperl
192     ./ext/db/ctreeperl
38      ./ext/db/ingperl/sqlperl
9       ./ext/db/ingperl/contrib
150     ./ext/db/ingperl
52      ./ext/db/formats
45      ./ext/db/sqlsyntax
11      ./ext/db/duaperl
41      ./ext/db/web/tpb
30      ./ext/db/web/gbarr
81      ./ext/db/web
1921    ./ext/db/tmp
12482   ./ext/db
12490   ./ext
176     ./misc/emacs
16      ./misc/xbm
217     ./misc/gif
864     ./misc
1072    ./ports/amiga
922     ./ports/atari
344     ./ports/lynxos
2549    ./ports/mac/mpw_c
279     ./ports/mac/think_c
20      ./ports/mac/scripts
5743    ./ports/mac
5105    ./ports/mpe
3815    ./ports/msdos/perl4
98      ./ports/msdos/tips-tricks
12320   ./ports/msdos
185     ./ports/mvs
137     ./ports/netware
1640    ./ports/os2
5277    ./ports/vms
821     ./ports/win-nt
344     ./ports/windows
5706    ./ports/xenix
39624   ./ports
87220   .

From spp@epix.net Sun Jun 11 13:48:32 1995
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Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 09:48:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: spp@epix.net
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN on the way to be v0.001...
In-Reply-To: <199506062119.AAA22967@beta.hut.fi>
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On Wed, 7 Jun 1995, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> About Wafe I am myself of the opinion that we leave only a pointer to it
> and do not drag all of it with CPAN.  But how about the c.l.p archives
> of UFL?  Florida folks, yu-huu?

I guess I'm still considered the Florida folk, even though I'm now in 
Pennsylvania.  I don't see any reason to add all that extra baggage to 
the CPAN.  Feel free to leave the clp archives out.  

Steve "spp@epix.net, for now"

From spp@epix.net Sun Jun 11 14:07:48 1995
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Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 10:07:48 -0400 (EDT)
From: spp@epix.net
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN v0.000
In-Reply-To: <9506071610.ab23704@post.demon.co.uk>
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On Wed, 7 Jun 1995, Tim Bunce wrote:
> Lot's of people post patches. I'd suggest that only patches from Larry
> and Andy go into dist/5.00x/patches/.
> 
> I'm just keen that dist/ is seen as Official, Clean and Safe.

Gee... go away for a week and get over 500 mail messages...
Just remember, Andy's patches are not "Official, Clean and Safe."  
Generally clean and safe, but according to him not official.

Steve

From spp@epix.net Sun Jun 11 14:38:15 1995
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Date: Sun, 11 Jun 1995 10:38:15 -0400 (EDT)
From: spp@epix.net
To: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN on the way to be v0.001...
In-Reply-To: <199506111358.QAA29727@beta.hut.fi>
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On Sun, 11 Jun 1995, Jarkko Hietaniemi wrote:
> Florida, Pennsylvania, who can ever distinguish between those pesky
> little places? :-)  Thanks for replying -- and replying as I would

I sure can distinguish... I left Florida in mid ninety degree weather.  
It's rained and been in the sixties and seventies all week.

> for CPAN.  BTW, are the clp archives collected automatically or by
> hand?  I guess a pointer in CPAN to the archives would not be a bad idea.

Sort of collected by hand.  A cron job copies the messages into the spool 
every night and monthly someone tars up the directory.

Steve

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Mon Jun 12 15:48:47 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com, spp@epix.net
Subject: Re: CPAN v0.000
Date: Mon, 12 Jun 1995 16:48:47 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9506121946.ac04225@post.demon.co.uk>


> From: spp@epix.net
> 
> On Wed, 7 Jun 1995, Tim Bunce wrote:
> > Lot's of people post patches. I'd suggest that only patches from Larry
> > and Andy go into dist/5.00x/patches/.
> > 
> > I'm just keen that dist/ is seen as Official, Clean and Safe.
> 
> Gee... go away for a week and get over 500 mail messages...
> Just remember, Andy's patches are not "Official, Clean and Safe."  
> Generally clean and safe, but according to him not official.
> 
That's just Andy being modest.

I regard Andy's patches as "Official, Clean and Safe." :-)

Most of the rest of the perl community seem happy to follow suit.

> Steve
> 
Tim. 

From joel@wmi.com Thu Jun 22 21:02:27 1995
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Date: Thu, 22 Jun 95 17:02:27 EDT
From: joel@wmi.com (Joel Coltoff)
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To: perl-packrats@perl.com
Subject: looking for a file

I'm trying to track down a copy of the recurse.pl code that Felix
Lee wrote. Any chance it's still around? I promise it won't get
deleted this time.

Thanks,
 - Joel

From paulh@harlequin.co.uk Fri Jun 23 09:13:27 1995
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subscribe perl-packrats

From ylu@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu Mon Jun 26 16:37:42 1995
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Date: Mon, 26 Jun 1995 11:37:42 -0500 (CDT)
From: Luke <ylu@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Fast HTML syntax checking package
Message-Id: <Pine.SUN.3.91.950626113358.3860I-100000@donald.cc.utexas.edu>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Randal suggested that I send this to your excellent archive.  Here it goes. 
Thanks.

__Luke

--
Luke Y. Lu
mailto:ylu@mail.utexas.edu
http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~lyl/                

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date: 26 JUN 1995 13:50:55 GMT 
From: Luke <ylu@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Newgroups: comp.lang.perl.announce, comp.lang.perl.misc, comp.lang.perl
Subject: Fast HTML syntax checking package for CGI scripts 

Interactive chat/guestbook stuff are in chic now on the web.  But what I've
seen so far are all pathetic IRC emulations.  A prerequisite of a good web
chat/guestbook is allowing users to write directly in HTML.  Problem: what
if user posts unclosed <H1>, <FONT>, and ultimately <BLINK>?  if you just
include them in a dynamic HTML document, the result is unthinkable:).  Most
online chat/guestbooks now escape HTML tags, which diminishes the fun of
hypertext because of the trouble of real time HTML syntax checking.  The
existing HTML syntax checkers are all resource suckers and picky
complainers written by HTML/SGML cops and the likes, not suitable for real
time user input checking.  We really need a small and fast basic HTML
checking package for this purpose.  Here it comes.  The fastest HTML syntax
checking package in Perl.  It's 15-100 times faster than weblint, checking
150 KB HTML text (~1500 tags) in a fraction of a second (on an Alpha of
course;).  If it's not the fastest, prove it with source:) It supports HTML
2.0, HTML 3.0 (draft) and Netscape extensions (1.1).  Adding new support is
trivial.  Please read the attached pod and source for more information.  I
envision a revolutionized interactive web in the near future.  ;)

cheers,

__Luke

Encl. 

=head1 NAME

htmlchk.pl -- a simple and fast HTML syntax checking package for perl 4/5

=head1 SYNOPSIS
    
    require 'htmlchk.pl';

    &htmlchk'OK($html_text) || die "Bad HTML";

    or for perl 5:
    htmlchk::OK($html_text) || die "Bad HTML";

=head1 DESCRIPTION

The objective of the package is to provide a fast and essential HTML check
(esp. for CGI scripts where response time is important) to prevent a piece
of user input HTML code from messing up the rest of a file, i.e., to
minimize and localize any possible damage created by including a piece of
user input HTML text in a dynamic document.


--------------------------------------------------------------------
nesting, which could ruin the rest of the document.  Attributes and
elements with optional end tags are not checked, as they should not cause
disasters with any decent browsers (they should ignore any unrecognized
tags and attributes according to the standard).  A piece of HTML that
passes htmlchk may not necessarily be valid HTML. But it would be very
unlikely to screw others but itself.

htmlchk.pl currently supports HTML 2.0, 3.0 (draft) and netscape
extensions (1.1).

=head1 EXAMPLE

    htmlchk, a simple html checker:

    #!/usr/local/bin/perl
    require 'htmlchk.pl';

    if ($ARGV[0] eq '-d') { $htmlchk'Debug = 1; shift; }
    undef $/;
    print &htmlchk'OK(<>) ? "HTML OK\n" : "Bad HTML:\n", $htmlchk'Error;

    __END__

    Usage: 
    htmlchk [-d] [html_file]

=head1 AUTHOR

Luke Y. Lu <ylu@mail.utexas.edu>

=head1 SEE ALSO

HTML docs at <URL:http://www.w3.org/hypertext/WWW/MarkUp/MarkUp.html>;
HTML validation service at <URL:http://www.halsoft.com/html/>;
perlSGML package at <URL:http://www.oac.uci.edu/indiv/ehood/perlSGML.html>;
weblint at <URL:http://www.khoros.unm.edu/staff/neilb/weblint.html>;
perl(1) of course.

=head1 BUGS

None by my definition. :)

=cut

#!/usr/local/bin/perl
# htmlchk.pl: a simple/fast html syntax checking package for perl 4 and 5
#
# $Id: htmlchk.pl,v 1.9 1995/5/31 09:33:52 ylu Exp ylu $
#
# Copyright 1995, Luke Y.  Lu <ylu@mail.utexas.edu>
# may be copied under the terms of either the Perl Artistic License or the
# GNU General Public License.  Comments/suggestions/bugfixes/improvements
# welcome.

package htmlchk;

$Version = '1.0b';

# WARNING: The following (between # start-html-def and # end-html-def) is
# generated by dtd2pl from a html.dtd 3.0 (draft). Edit with caution.

# 5/12/95 ylu added netscape extensions: <font> <center> and <blink>

# start-html-def
# elements that _require_ closing tags.
%Pair = (
               'A',         1,
         'ADDRESS',         1,
               'B',         1,
           'BLINK',         1,  # mozilla 
      'BLOCKQUOTE',         1,
          'CENTER',         1,  # mozilla 
            'CITE',         1,
            'CODE',         1,
             'DFN',         1,
             'DIR',         1,
              'DL',         1,
              'EM',         1,
             'FIG',         1,
            'FONT',         1,  # mozilla 
            'FORM',         1,
              'H1',         1,
              'H2',         1,
              'H3',         1,
              'H4',         1,
              'H5',         1,
              'H6',         1,
            'HEAD',         1,
            'HTML',         1,
               'I',         1,
             'KBD',         1,
         'LISTING',         1,
            'MENU',         1,
              'OL',         1,
             'PRE',         1,
               'S',         1,
            'SAMP',         1,
          'SELECT',         1,
          'STRONG',         1,
           'STYLE',         1,
           'TABLE',         1,
        'TEXTAREA',         1,
           'TITLE',         1,
              'TT',         1,
               'U',         1,
              'UL',         1,
             'VAR',         1,
             'XMP',         1,
);

# Nestable elements
%Nestable = (
      'BLOCKQUOTE',         1,
              'DL',         1,
            'MENU',         1,
              'OL',         1,
           'TABLE',         1,
              'UL',         1,
);

# end-html-def

# htmlchk'OK($html_text);
# a quick check for html essentials.  return 1 for success, 0 for error,
# set $htmlchk'Error. 
 
sub OK
{
    local($_) = @_;
    local($tag, $isendtag, @tags, %tags, $tag1);
    local($*) = 0;
    
    $Error = "";

    unless (&anglematch) {
        $Error = "mismatched < and >\n";
        return 0;
    }

    for $tag (/<\s*([^\s>]+)[^>]*>/g) {
        $tag =~ y/a-z/A-Z/;
        $isendtag = $tag =~ s!^/!!;

        next unless $Pair{$tag};
        if ($isendtag) {
            print "</$tag>\n" if $Debug;   #XXX
            if ($tag1 = pop @tags) {
                $tag1 eq $tag || 
                    $Error .=  "<$tag1> does not match </$tag>\n";
            }
            else {
                $Error .=  "</$tag> appears without matching <$tag>\n";
            }
            $tags{$tag1} -= 1;
        }
        else {
            print "<$tag>\n" if $Debug;   #XXX
            push(@tags, $tag);
            $tags{$tag} += 1;
            $tags{$tag} <=1 || $Nestable{$tag} ||
                $Error .=  "<$tag> cannot be nested\n";
        }
    }

    for $tag (@tags) {
        $Error .= "missing required </$tag> for <$tag>\n";
    }

    return $Error ? 0 : 1;
}

# anglematch($html_text);
# return 1 if < and > matches

sub anglematch
{
    # in perl5 we can use s/<!--.*?-->//g to remove html comments.  Kinda
    # hairy and slow to do in perl4, don't bother.  So it will reject html
    # text with markups within comments -- hey, who types html with
    # comments anyway :).  some browsers also seem to be confused with
    # markups inside a comment.
    
    #eval 's/<!--.*?-->//g' if $] =~ /^5/; # uncomment to slow down if you want
    return 0 if /<[^>]*</;
    return 0 if />[^<]*>/;
    return 0 if /<[^>]*$/;
    return 0 if /^[^<]*>/;
    1;
}

1;

__END__



From neilb@borris.khoros.unm.edu Tue Jun 27 18:30:19 1995
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	id <9506271830.AA02856@borris.khoros.unm.edu>; Tue, 27 Jun 95 12:30:19 MDT
Posted-Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 12:30:19 MDT
Message-Id: <9506271830.AA02856@borris.khoros.unm.edu>
From: neilb@khoral.com (Neil Bowers)
Date: Tue, 27 Jun 1995 12:30:19 MDT
In-Reply-To: Luke <ylu@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
       "Fast HTML syntax checking package" (Jun 26, 11:37am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Luke <ylu@ccwf.cc.utexas.edu>
Subject: Re: Fast HTML syntax checking package
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Reply-To: neilb@khoral.com
Organization: Khoral Research, Inc.

Hi Luke,

> Subject: Fast HTML syntax checking package for CGI scripts 
> 
> We really need a small and fast basic HTML checking package for this purpose.
> [...] The fastest HTML syntax checking package in Perl.
> [... htmlchk.pl deleted ...]

I have put this on our ftp site, as:

	ftp://ftp.khoral.com/pub/perl/www/htmlchk.pl

Right alongside weblint ;-)

neilb

From rodger@hpbs2245.boi.hp.com Wed Jun 28 17:39:34 1995
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To: joel@wmi.com (Joel Coltoff)
Cc: perl-packrats@perl.com
Subject: recurse.pl (was Re: looking for a file)
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 22 Jun 1995 17:02:27 EDT."
             <9506222102.AA19148@wmi0.wmi.com> 
Date: Wed, 28 Jun 1995 11:39:34 -0600
From: Rodger Anderson <rodger@hpbs2245.boi.hp.com>

I have saved a posting to alt.sources.d in '93 that says that it is
archived on coombs.  I don't know if the file is still available as I
was not able to ftp this site.  Something about being "full".

Anyway, there is the relevant info:

Subject:    INDEX of perl scripts on coombs.anu.edu.au Feb 8th 1993
From:       mark@coombs.anu.edu.au (Mark)
Date:       08 Feb 1993 12:34:13 GMT
Newsgroups: alt.sources.wanted,alt.sources.d,comp.unix.misc
             ----------------------------------------
Here is the INDEX of the perl scripts archived on coombs.anu.edu.au anon ftp.
See the file README for usage and mirror details for European sites.

Enjoy,
Mark
mark@coombs.anu.edu.au

INDEX 

/pub/perl/misc

slides.ps         - part of the plum distribution
perl.code.sources - file listing ftp(-mail) sites for src code. multi platforms
perl.purity.test  - in the vein of the original Purity Test. do you rate?
vgrindefs.perl    - vgrind definitions for perl :)
x.faces.camel.xbm - X11 bitmap for the 'faces' program. From The Book Cover.
x.faces.perl.xbm  - X11 bitmap for the 'faces' program.

/pub/perl/scripts

a2ps-1.24      - ascii to postscript converter
addrcheck.shar - verify someones email address is correct the easy way
age            - check to see if password is aged and run /bin/passwd if it is
alarm.shar     - How to use perl's alarm() call. Includes itimer.pl
anag           - search /usr/dict/words looking for lowercase anagrams
arcman         - interactive tape archive manager
arpmon.shar    - reads from tcpdump listening for arp packets.
arry.pl        - array support functions. check to see if item is in a list
audit.shar     - Audit mail messages
badrhosts      - find '+' in anyones .rhost and email them to change it
bap            - used with forceme to write text to a tty stdin buffer
bgfork         - fork, close i/o and exec args. backgrounds the program
bignums.shar   - $[ safe versions of bigint.pl, bigfloat.pl and bigrat.pl
bind.pl        - DNS implementation. forms a query to a nameserver
boss.shar      - print who works/bosses whom. uses presetup database
buddbgen.pl    - generates an entry for budtools request database
burstali       - expands the alias database. reports problems
c2ph           - convert c struct definitions to usable perl code
cachein        - cache file descriptors in an array
canon.pl       - get hostname from ip address
cbreak.pl      - uses ioctl call to set cbreak or cooked mode on terminal
cbreak2.pl     - uses ioctl call to set cbreak or cooked mode on terminal
cdif-1.6       - word context diff. uses screen highlights to enhance output
centre         - centre it's STDIN on 80 column lines
cgrep          - does a context grep of a pattern in the specified files
chat2.shar     - package to chat to a TCP/IP server
check.pl       - pipes output from 'rusers', checks for a user and notifies you
checknews      - checks unread news. uses 'rn'. uses 'words' for formatting
chop           - chops input to specified length. default is 80 chars
chtape         - trivial script showing use of reading and writing a tty
clones/        - DIR - Unix command clones. 
cmail.shar     - check user mail reading habits
colls          - show instantaenous collision percentages on the net interface
convex/        - DIR - Scripts used on convex.com to assist in auditing.
cookie.server  - tcp/ip cookier server. get your cookies here
cptime         - copies the file times of one file onto others
cterm.shar     - emulates a curses term. forks and chats to included C program
ctime.pl       - perl emulation of the unix ctime(3C) system call
cutcol         - cut columns out of a data file. useful for xgraph
cylheadsect    - calculate cylinder, head,sector from /var/adm/messages file
date.pl        - print dates how you want with the sysv +FORMAT method
date.shar      - routines to manipulate and calculate dates
dbmp           - print the contents of a dbm file
dnswalk.shar   - zone transfers a domain and checks each entry is accurate
dotime         - run a command n times and display a summary of time taken
dus            - do a du -s on local file systems
dusage.shar    - report extensively on disk usage. compares with previous runs
dvips42.patch  - patches to dvips version 4.2, to allow it to work with up.
dynafeed.admin - allows easier creation of article lists for dynafeed server
dynamic.c.load.shar - dynamic load C subroutines to code. requires dynload(3x)
easy           - one liners that perform various functions
easy-serv.shar - routines to help construct client/server programs. uses TCP
exyacc         - extract grammar from a yacc file
edit.pl        - library of routines to allow you to edit text arrays on screen
file.pl        - intelligent replacement for the unix file command
fileops.shar   - two libraries giving file primitives like copy, remove, create
find2perl.shar - makes script that does same thing as corresponding find command
findcp         - uses find syntax to copy files to a remote system
finddep        - find dependancies on header files for the specified source pgms
finddups       - find duplicate files. they may have duplicate names or inodes
find.demo.pl   - two scripts illustrating use of find. uses unix and perl find
findlines      - runs find and prints the number of lines in any text file found
findtar        - use find's arguements to create a tar file
fixin          - fix incoming scripts to use right !# interpreter for your site
fixperm        - fix permissions in /local
fixscripts     - translate . files to know about your scripts directory
fixshar        - trivial script to strip mail/news headers from shar files.
flush.pl       - flush() and iflush() routines to flush input/output pipes
forceme        - pushes it's args into the 'keyboard buffer'
forjems        - script showing how to forward mail to another site
forking        - snippet of code demonstrating how to efficiently fork processes
forms-1.0.shar.1 - documentation (plain text) for forms-1.0
forms-1.0.shar.2 - forms orientated input system. useful for data entry etc
forwmail       - scans sendmail aliases file and forwards mbox's in spool dir
framescan      - print current frame maker users
fromto-1.2     - prints sendmail/syslog logfiles in human readable form
ftpget.shar    - runs off and gets specified file from a host. needs chat2.pl
ftp-chat2.shar - updated version of ftpget. includes library and demo programs
ftw2.shar      - find replacement. nicer to the file system
gcp            - global copy. copy files from/to a set of hosts
ged            - global edit. edit a file on a set of hosts at once
getalias.shar  - scans sendmail aliases showing aliases, recursively if needed
getargs        - provides another arguement parser for a script
getdate.shar   - returns number of seconds since epoch for any given date
getline.pl     - gets the next line from a file. has escaped newlines check
getnet         - translates a hostname into it's real hostname and it's network
getnispasswdfile.pl - returns the NIS shadow & passwd files from the makefile
getpasswd.pl   - user enters a password and gets a '*' per character typed
gettimeofday   - routines returning timeofday, TZ and other time information
glob.pl        - routines for globbing and expanding arguements
gsh            - Larrys verison of gsh
gsh.merlyn     - Randal's version of gsh - a multiple host command launcher
h2ph           - convert C .h files to perl .ph files
h2pl/          - DIR - files to help you convert *.h files to *.pl ones
header.pl      - routines to mess with rfc-822 email headers
here           - uses rwho and rusers to list users on machines
histbin        - bin data for a histogram
histrebin      - reads a data file and rebins it by a user defined factor
histo          - shows # of processes each user has & # of incidents of a binary
homes          - show users that are probably using a file system
inctree        - prints tree diagram of include files traversed by cpp
indtrace       - indent a program trace being fed to it and spew to stdout
ingres.sql.shar - interface to ingres and sql. includes demonstration code
install.shar   - sort-of replacement for install(1)
intersect.pl   - find intersect of lq phrases
ip2addr        - convert ip addresses to hostnames or vise versa
ipforwarding   - mess with ipforwarding in your kernel
ircstat.shar   - generate usable stats from a ircservers connection logfile
itimers.pl     - timer manipulation functions. getitimer, setitimer, alarm
jcode.pl-1.7   - japanese character code conversion library. kanji, jis etc
jfort.pl       - scans jargon file for it's arguements and prints the entries
jinx.shar      - interactive tool for manipulating databases. requires cterm.pl
jinx.ps        - postscript manual for jinx
kconv_emulate.pl-1.2 - emulate routines from 'perl-kconv'. uses jcode.pl
kstack         - prints kernel data about supplied PID
kybble         - binary/hexadecimal editor. uses termcap codes for fullscreen
langchk.pl     - see which language a particular page of Voynich is using
laserff        - filter to print form-feed characters on a laser printer
lastlogin      - show users and the time of last login. from the camel book
lastver        - select last version of vms filenames
LC             - translate arguements to lowercase and execute
lfix           - emulate cc/ld -L switch for machines that dont support it
list.ip.pl     - given a subnet mask, print reachable IP numbers
lncommon       - compare two directories and link common files
lockCC         - lock files before trying to compile them
lockem         - locks a file and then runs $EDITOR on it
logfinger.shar - makes a FIFO of a .plan. executes script when you are fingered
lookbibtex.shar - gives keyword searchs of bibtex databases. prints full entry
lr.pl          - line regression package
lsC.pl         - script to print columns of files (words) from a long list
lsC2.pl        - script to print columns of files (words) from a long list
lwfix          - chugs around killing and restarting printer daemons
machtype       - simple script to display machine type
mail-headers.spaf - sort out a RFC822 mailheader. plus work out reply address
mail2news      - mail to news gateway stuff
makeup         - prints a specified number of postscript test pages
man/           - DIR -
man-selfload   - rewrite of manual system for unix. could port to messy dos?
man.shar       - manual page cross-refrencer. processes each man page
menu.pl.shar   - version 1.3 of a curses based menu lib easing the use of menus
mg-2.0         - multi line grep. handles .Z, binary files. lots of options
mh.folder.list - print out mh folders in compact format
mh.pager.pl    - filters unwanted header lines before using 'show'
mine           - simple script to list certain types of files
mkfontalias    - make font.alias file in X11 font directory
mkshadowdir    - make a shadow direcotry of symlinks pointing to real directory
mkusrhosts     - softlinks machines in /usr/adm/MACHINES to rsh in /usr/hosts
mountnfs       - mount any unmounted nfs file systems
mrm.utils.shar - general file toolbox. columnise, execute, copy, etc files.
mstat          - parse the system mail logs and print a summary of usage
muck           - make usage checker. check dependancies to ensure correctness
multitape      - splits a file into multiple tapes. useful for backups
my             - take file pointed to by symbolic link and replace link with it
mygethostbyaddr - front end to simplify gethostbyaddr. supply it with an ip
ncal           - interface to 'cal'. parses real month names etc
netcp.netsh.pl - scripts to do global rsh's and rcp's. uses NIS netgroups db
newsclip.shar  - clips signatures from a news spool. fixes history file
newsrc-1.7     - reorder ~/.newsrc file. option of using a ~/.newsorder file
news.stats.pl  - reads statistics from stdin and lists hosts and connections
nfinger        - searches /usr/lib/aliases and fingers people at home machines
nlist          - shows how to write a function to return an associative array
nntptap        - faster NNTP news feeds for slow links
nostrict       - postprocess lint output to implement NOSTRICT directives
now-what       - environment for mh to send a mail message. similar to elm
nw             - filters 'w' output and reformats, adding a host field
open3          - lets you catch stdout and stderr of your sub commands
operl.shar     - experimental object-orientated package for perl
parapage       - prints a pretty header on every page that is fed through it
pare           - print information for paring down directories
parr           - rearrange postscript code to print pages in arbitary order
passwd.depr    - stub passwd program for systems that shouldnt allow changing
pearmail       - use perl to send and extract uuencoded and t'archived files
pcap2lp.shar   - takes BSD printcap and makes SYSV lpadmin entries. Suits HPUX
pchelp         - let people gripe about their pc and mail to tech support
pdump          - does backups to tapes
pgpedit        - mh wrappers for pgp. compose and reply to pgp'd messages
pgputil        - manage pgp signed keys. reports keys signed by a given key
phone          - check for a name in your phone list
piff           - notify you when new mail comes in. similar to biff(1)
pipegrep       - greps on output of a series of commands
pirc3.3.5      - perl irc client. contains japansese comments but figurable
pkf-1.7        - perl kanji filter. converts to/from jis, euc, sjis and kanji
plod.1.3.shar  - script to help you log your progress with a task
plum.1.31      - perl screen based mh mail/news/msgs reader
plum-conf.shar - conf files for various unicies. use these to run plum
pman           - man page reader. checks ENV variables for defaults
preambulate    - run this on a perl script to give perl version checking
prequire       - report on what libraries a program needs to run
proc           - display users running the specified program
ps2ascii       - look through a postscript doc for ascii strings
ps.linux       - ps implementation for linux showing usage of the /proc fs
pstree         - print a postscript directory tree
pstruct.shar   - parse C structs and display their member offsets
pt.pl          - process tree lister. works on multiple architechtures
ptags          - filter out and print subroutine names in scripts. I think
ptime.shar     - print dates how you want with the sysv +FORMAT method
pwbitch        - bitch to users if they have a missing password
pxref          - perl cross referencer
qcheck         - provides quota monitoring for those that dont have any
qmeter         - print files while there is no print errors against you
rangegrep      - print lines between pattern1 and pattern2
readabst       - reads info-mac index files
readership     - report who reads a newsgroup on your machine
readline.pl    - implementation of the GNU readline. handles multibyte chars
recently       - who has logged in recently and when
recurse.pl     - simulation of recursive types in perl. (vectors and tables)
reduce         - allows left and right associative reduction
refetch.shar   - request articles via nntp that were scrogged
relink         - relink multiple symbolic links
rename         - rename files with reg expr parsing
retab          - change indentation from every 8 columns to fewer columns
rgrep          - recursive grep. allows reg exprs on filenames etc
rhost          - add the host I rlogin'd from to my .rhosts file
rmfrom         - do an rm on files fed in from stdin
ruptime.pl     - builds rpc call. returns uptime of a nominated host
rwm            - launches a X window manager from a remote machine
s2p            - convert shell scripts to perl scripts
sdif-1.13      - sdiff clone. option of rcs checking
sfocversion    - report or change currently running SFOC version
shell-mode     - simple GNU Emacs mode for shell scripts
shell.mon.pl   - open a pty, start a shell and log users keystrokes
shipit         - pack up files into chunks and uuencode and mail
showdupes      -
sl             - show translation of symbolic link to actual filename
slowcat        - prints out it's stdin. loops for a specified # of iterations
snoop.shar     - poor mans remote perl debugger. uses ipc sockets
sort.ipaddr    - sort a host table by ip addresses
sort.ips       - sort ip addresses no matter how they are set out
sortbyfield    - sorts it's stdin. fields are space seperated. easily changed
soundex.pl     - return the soundex value of a string.
source.pl      - subroutine that executes a perl script. has error checking
sp.pl          - Scheme parser
ssl            - sendmail accounting script
star.pl        - extracts single file from a tar file and writes it to stdout
statmon        - check for hosts going up or down or with bad clocks
subst          - perl version of the C news or INN subst
suidscript     - puts a compiled C wrapper around a suid or sgid script
sun.backup.shar - backup listed discs to an exabyte 8mm (8500) drive on suN
syslog.pl      - package used for entering lines in the syslog
syslog.shar    - routines to speak to syslogd's socket from Perl
sz             - print the number of x and y pixels on your display
tarcp          - copy files and subdirs to another directory using tar to tar
taro-1.3       - tarfile organiser. edit, list, cut, splice, dice etc tarfiles
tcbreak        - demonstration of usage of cbreak.pl
tcbreak2       - demonstration of usage of cbreak2.pl
tcpconnect-0.3 - make connection to port with tcp. useful on firewalls/gateways
tcpreceive-1.1 - read from tcp port, output to stdout. can make a pipe over net
tcprelay-1.2   - act as bride between client and server for tcp session
termcap.pl     - replacement for the distributed termcap.pl
texascprint    - a program listing, and ascii-text printing program using TeX
tglob          - frontend to show usage of glob.pl
tgrep          - grep pattern in text files only, skipping binaries
theasaurus     - use wais to scan rogets theasaurus for symonyms
timelocal.pl   - does the opposite of the localtime() call
timeloop       - tight cpu loop to print time out when it changes
timeout.pl     - execute perl code with a built in timeout
timesheet      - takes info from a file & prints the postscript for a timesheet
today          - shows last,this and next month from cal and highlights today
tpc.beta.tar.Z - perl IRC client. configure it manually. minimal but functional
ttimer         - demo of the timers.pl package
unixversion    - print the current version of unix running on the machine
unshar         - attempts to undo a shar file in a secure fashion
unshipit       - unpack an archive generated by shipit
unvi           - edit a file without changing it's file times
up.shar        - set of scripts to make conforming PostScript print n-up.
uucombine.pl   - combines the 'part??' of a distribution and uudecodes the file
uuextract      - scans it's stdin for uuencoded text extracting as it goes
uuhost         - simple client that connects to a uuhostd on another? machine
uuhostd        - server that accepts tcp connections. performs simple commands
uulock         - checks locks on file sin the uucp area and reports on them
uumerge        - uudecodes its arguments (or stdin) ignoring non uuencoded lines
unpack.cbip    - uudecode and properly order files from comp.binaries.ibm.pc
unrmm          - undelete mail messages in mh folders
unvanish       - unvanish files from the trashcan. used with vanish
vanexp         - expires any vanished files in the trashcan. see vanish
vanish         - move files to the trashcan. use unvanish to recycle the files
vmscan         - read stuff out of the kernel like vmstat
vspell         - checks your file and highlights words it doesnt know
w4             - list dependancies of .c files for including in a makefile
who            - scans utmp and prints a 'w' listing. you may need to configure
win.pl         - small window library for perl. should work on dos too
wrapinst       - install man pages produced by running wrapman
wrapman        - wraps a manual around the perl script it is documenting
words          - 
xdump          - prints it's stdin or args out in an ibm style hex dump
xfortune       - creates xterm to display output from /usr/games/fortune
xpost          - given an article id it will display it's newsgroups
xwinname       - set window and icon name of enclosing xterm window
yagrip.pl      - different version of getopt for perl (mine, natch)
zap            - blow away or renice processes
zap2           - interactively nuke processes you specify
zoelim         - file viewer. Automatically adds the .Z and zcats if needed
zombies        - print the programs which have child zombied processes

From doughera@lafcol.lafayette.edu Wed Jul 12 14:55:24 1995
Received: from lafcol.lafayette.edu by metronet.com with SMTP id AA14430
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Wed, 12 Jul 1995 09:53:59 -0500
Return-Path: <doughera@lafcol.lafayette.edu>
Received: by lafcol.lafayette.edu (4.1/SMI-4.1)
	id AA25170; Wed, 12 Jul 95 10:55:24 EDT
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 10:55:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Andy Dougherty <doughera@lafcol.lafayette.edu>
Subject: List of archive sites with perl5.001m
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Message-Id: <Pine.3.89.9507121043.A25139-0100000@lafcol>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

I'd like to announce perl5.001m availability on comp.lang.perl.announce 
(assuming that newsgroup ever shows up at my site) but I don't have a 
good list of archive sites carrying it.

Here's my current list:

	ftp.wpi.edu:/perl5/
	ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/source/
        ftp.funet.fi:/pub/languages/perl/ports/perl5/perl5-porters-patches/patch.1[a-m].gz
	http://www.rosat.mpe-garching.mpg.de/perl5/

Anyone have other sites to add?

Thanks,

    Andy Dougherty		doughera@lafcol.lafayette.edu
    Dept. of Physics
    Lafayette College, Easton PA 18042

From k@anna.mind.de Thu Jul 13 00:49:22 1995
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Received: by anna.mind.de (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI)
	 id SAA14327; Wed, 12 Jul 1995 18:49:23 +0200
From: "Andreas Koenig" <k@anna.mind.de>
Message-Id: <9507121849.ZM14325@anna.mind.de>
Date: Wed, 12 Jul 1995 18:49:22 -0600
In-Reply-To: Ilya Zakharevich <ilya@math.ohio-state.edu>
        "Re: The Perl 5 Module List" (Jul 12,  5:48am)
References: <199507120948.FAA28764@monk.mps.ohio-state.edu>
Reply-To: koenig@franz.ww.TU-Berlin.DE
To: Ilya Zakharevich <ilya@math.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: The Perl 5 Module List
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, peter.gordon@indigo.co.il,
        Frederic.Chauveau@pasteur.fr, bodg@tiuk.ti.com, Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail)
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

(I have edited the CC: list, because I got 3 copies of all the messages in this
thread)

On Jul 12,  5:48am, Ilya Zakharevich wrote:
> Well, I remember some http: form we were invited to fill. I did it,
> where are the results?

It wasn't very clever to have the authors write HTML code into the database.
Now it's difficult to use the strings I have as a basis for mirroring.
Any ideas welcome. In fact I'm thinking about a redisign the whole day,
but so far have not a clear picture.

Here are the current link infos in the database.

andreas



AddINC                            (by Graham Barr)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods">ftp.icnet.uk<
   /A>
  <P>

Chat2                             (by Graham Barr)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods">ftp.icnet.uk<
   /A>
  <P>

Class::Behavior                   (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Date::CTime                       (by Graham Barr)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods">ftp.icnet.uk<
   /A>
  <P>

Date::GetDate                     (by Graham Barr)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods">ftp.icnet.uk<
   /A>
  <P>

DoWhatIWant                       (by Water Mellon)
   Please, don't you forget to
   <A HREF="mailto:A.Koenig@franz.ww.tu-berlin.de">complain loudly</A> if
   any of my modules
  <P>

DoWhatIWant+                      (by Water Mellon)
   Please, don't you forget to
   <A HREF="mailto:A.Koenig@franz.ww.tu-berlin.de">complain loudly</A> if
   any of my modules
  <P>

File::Attrib                      (by Tye McQueen)
   <LI><A HREF="http://www.metronet.com/~tye/">My Home Page</A>
  <P>

File::KGlob                       (by Tye McQueen)
   <LI><A HREF="http://www.metronet.com/~tye/">My Home Page</A><LI><A HREF=
   "http://www.metronet.com/~tye/">My Home Page</A>
  <P>

Ioctl                             (by Kenneth Albanowski)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Ioctl-0.5.tar.Z>
   Ioctl-0.5.tar.Z</A><LI><A HREF=
   "http://numeric.adr.com/Perl/Perl5Modules.html">
  <P>

Language::Prolog                  (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Prolog-alpha.tar.gz">
   Language::Prolog</A><LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive</A>
  <P>

MD5                               (by Neil Winton)
   <LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.khoros.unm.edu/pub/perl/extensions/MD5-1.1.tar.gz">
   MD5-1.1.tar.gz</A>
  <P>

Mail::RFC822                      (by Graham Barr)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods">ftp.icnet.uk<
   /A>
  <P>

Math::Pari                        (by Ilya Zakharevich)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.math.ohio-state.edu/pub/users/ilya/perl">
   Directory for public packages</A>
  <P>

Msql                              (by Andreas K&ouml;nig)
    <LI><A HREF="ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/pub/perl">in Berlin, Germany<
   /A>
  <P>

Net::Dnet                         (by Spider Boardman)
   <LI><A href=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.ak.uk//icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz">
   Spider's Net::* extensions in the UK</A>
   <LI><A href=
   "ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/perl5/extensions/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz">
   Spider's Net::* extensions in the USA</A>
  <P>

Net::Gen                          (by Spider Boardman)
   <LI><A href=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.ak.uk//icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz">
   Spider's Net::* extensions in the UK</A>
   <LI><A href=
   "ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/perl5/extensions/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz">
   Spider's Net::* extensions in the USA</A>
  <P>

Net::Inet                         (by Spider Boardman)
   <LI><A href=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.ak.uk//icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz">
   Spider's Net::* extensions in the UK</A>
   <LI><A href=
   "ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/perl5/extensions/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz">
   Spider's Net::* extensions in the USA</A>
  <P>

Net::TCP                          (by Spider Boardman)
   <LI><A href=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.ak.uk//icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz">
   Spider's Net::* extensions in the UK</A>
   <LI><A href=
   "ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/perl5/extensions/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz">
   Spider's Net::* extensions in the USA</A>
  <P>

Net::UDP                          (by Spider Boardman)
   <LI><A href=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.ak.uk//icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz">
   Spider's Net::* extensions in the UK</A>
   <LI><A href=
   "ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/perl5/extensions/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz">
   Spider's Net::* extensions in the USA</A>
  <P>

News::NNTPClient                  (by Rodger Anderson)
   <LI>Send <A HREF="mailto:rodger@boi.hp.com">mail</A>
   to the author and ask for it.  Put
   <B>send nntpclient</B> as the first thing in the <EM>body</EM> of the
   message.
   <LI>Also available from
   <A HREF="ftp://metronet.com/pub/perl/perl5/extensions/NNTPClient-0.17">
   Metronet</A>.
  <P>

SGI::FM                           (by Amos Shapira)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.huji.ac.il/users/amoss/SGI-FM-0.1.tar.gz">
   SGI-FM-0.1.tar.gz</A>
  <P>

SGI::GL                           (by Amos Shapira)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.huji.ac.il/users/amoss/SGI-GL-0.2.tar.gz>
   SGI-GL-0.2.tar.gz</A>
  <P>

SGI::SysCalls                     (by Amos Shapira)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.huji.ac.il/users/amoss/SGI-SysCalls-0.1.tar.gz">
   SGI-SysCalls-0.1.tar.gz</A>
  <P>

Server::Configs::BasicConfig      (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Echo::MailPipe            (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Echo::TcpDForking         (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Echo::TcpDMplx            (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Echo::TcpISNowait         (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Echo::TcpISWFork          (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Echo::TcpISWMplx          (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Echo::UdpD                (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Echo::UdpIS               (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::FileQueue::DirQueue       (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::FileQueue::Functions      (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::FileQueue::MboxQueue      (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::FileQueue::Object         (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Inet::Functions           (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Inet::Object              (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Inet::TcpClientObj        (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Inet::TcpMasterObj        (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Inet::UdpObj              (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Initialize::Daemon        (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/InitializeServer-1.0.tar.gz"
   >Server::Initialize::Daemon</A><LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive</A>
  <P>

Server::Initialize::Functions     (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/InitializeServer-1.0.tar.gz"
   >Server::Initialize::Functions</A><LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive</A>
  <P>

Server::Initialize::InetdService  (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/InitializeServer-1.0.tar.gz"
   >Server::Initialize::InetdService</A><LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive</A>
  <P>

Server::Initialize::Pipe          (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/InitializeServer-1.0.tar.gz"
   >Server::Initialize::Pipe</A><LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive</A>
  <P>

Server::Mail::Functions           (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Mail::Object              (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Server::Server::EventDriven       (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/EventDrivenServer-1.2.tar.gz
   ">Server::Server::EventDriven</A><LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive</A>
  <P>

Statistics::Descriptive           (by Jason Kastner)
   <li><a href=
   "ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.ta
   r.gz"> StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz</a> <li><a href=
   "ftp://ftp.wpi.edu/perl5/Modules/StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz">
   StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz</a> <li><a href=
   "ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/src/5.0/ext/StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar
   .gz"> StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz</a>
  <P>

Sx                                (by Frederic Chauveau)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/Sx-1.6.tar.gz"> Old version of
   Sx Module</A>
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/Sx-2.0-Beta.tar.gz"> Beta
   version of Sx Module</A><LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/Sx-1.6.tar.gz"> Old version of Sx Module<
   /A>
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/Sx-2.0-Beta.tar.gz"> Beta
   version of Sx Module</A>
  <P>

Sys::AlarmCall                    (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

Tcl::                             (by Malcolm Beattie)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/perl/Tcl-b1.tar.gz> Tcl-b1.tar.gz</A>
  <P>

Tcl::Tk                           (by Malcolm Beattie)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/perl/TclTk-b1.tar.gz>
   TclTk-b1.tar.gz</A>
  <P>

Term::Control                     (by Kenneth Albanowski)
   <LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Term-Control-0.1.tar.Z">
   Term-Control-0.1.tar.Z</A><LI><A HREF=
   "http://numeric.adr.com/Perl/Perl5Modules.html">
  <P>

Term::Info                        (by Kenneth Albanowski)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Term-Info-1.0.tar.Z">
   Term-Info-1.0.tar.Z</A><LI><A HREF=
   "http://numeric.adr.com/Perl/Perl5Modules.html">
  <P>

Term::Read                        (by Kenneth Albanowski)
   <LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/TermReadKey-1.98.tar.Z">
   TermReadKey-1.97.tar.Z</A> Note: Term::Read has been renamed to
   Term::ReadKey<LI><A HREF="http://numeric.adr.com/Perl/Perl5Modules.html">
   My Modules Page</A>
  <P>

Term::Readline                    (by Kenneth Albanowski)
   <LI>Readline is not currently available.<LI><A HREF=
   "http://numeric.adr.com/Perl/Perl5Modules.html">
  <P>

Text::TeX                         (by Ilya Zakharevich)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.math.ohio-state.edu/pub/users/ilya/perl">
   Directory for public packages</A>
  <P>

Text::Trie                        (by Ilya Zakharevich)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.math.ohio-state.edu/pub/users/ilya/perl">
   Directory for public packages</A>
  <P>

Usage                             (by Jack Shirazi)
   <LI><A HREF="ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/">Icnet archive<
   /A>
  <P>

WAIS                              (by Ulrich Pfeifer)
   <LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ls6-www.informatik.uni-dortmund.de/pub/wais/waisperl5-0.3.1.tar.gz
   ">sources for perl5.001</A> <LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ls6-www.informatik.uni-dortmund.de/pub/wais/waisperl5-0.3.tar.gz">
   sources for perl5.000</A> <LI><A HREF=
   "ftp://ls6-www.informatik.uni-dortmund.de/pub/wais/waisperl-0.2.tar.gz">
   sources for perl4.036</A>
  <P>

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Thu Jul 27 23:04:46 1995
Received: from vinkku.hut.fi by metronet.com with SMTP id AA04914
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Thu, 27 Jul 1995 18:03:47 -0500
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Date: Fri, 28 Jul 1995 02:04:46 +0300
Message-Id: <199507272304.CAA31902@alpha.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: testing.
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


1,2,3.

++jhi;

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Mon Jul 31 19:47:24 1995
Received: from disperse.demon.co.uk by metronet.com with SMTP id AA05789
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Mon, 31 Jul 1995 16:07:31 -0500
Return-Path: <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Received: from post.demon.co.uk by disperse.demon.co.uk id ab09248;
          31 Jul 95 20:47 +0100
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          31 Jul 95 20:47 +0100
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          Mon, 31 Jul 1995 20:47:24 +0100
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: testing.
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 20:47:24 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9507312047.aa20238@post.demon.co.uk>


> From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
> 
> 1,2,3.
> 
Hi.

What's the story with CPAN? (ARK? PARK?)

Even if it's not fully sorted yet, having one definitive site for
uploads would be very helpful.

> ++jhi;
>
Tim.

p.s. I got this for my last message:

Subject: Returned mail: Service unavailable

   ----- Transcript of session follows -----
While talking to feenix.metronet.com:
>>> HELO metronet.com
<<< 553 metronet.com config error: mail loops back to myself
554 <perl-packrats@feenix.metronet.com>... Service unavailable

   ----- Recipients of this delivery -----
Bounced, cannot deliver:
   <perl-packrats@feenix.metronet.com>

   ----- Unsent message follows -----
 

From wjm  Mon Jul 31 16:40:07 1995
Received: by metronet.com id AA13607
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for perl-packrats); Mon, 31 Jul 1995 16:39:48 -0500
Return-Path: <wjm>
Message-Id: <199507312139.AA13607@metronet.com>
From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Mon, 31 Jul 1995 16:39:46 -0500
In-Reply-To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
       "Re: testing." (Jul 31,  8:47pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Subject: Re: testing.
Cc: perl-packrats


Hmm.  I seem to be getting it.

They may have changed something with the mailer at feenix.

Try perl-packrats@metronet.com in general to go the the
proper MX.

The archive, with the merge of all of Mark's stuff and
other script sites, is ready soon.  We'll then have to decide
on uploading procedures.  The admins here have a cron
job to delete all world writable dirs in / for anon ftp once
a night, so we nmay need some other method/site.


Bill

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Mon Jul 31 22:52:24 1995
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Received: from beta.hut.fi (beta.hut.fi [130.233.224.51]) by vinkku.hut.fi (8.6.11/8.6.7) with ESMTP id BAA25986; Tue, 1 Aug 1995 01:53:09 +0300
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Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 01:52:24 +0300
Message-Id: <199507312252.BAA17706@beta.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Bill Middleton <wjm@metronet.com>,
        "Michael K. Peterson" <mkp@gumby.dsd.TRW.COM>,
        <pomeranz@netcom.com> Hal Pomeranz, Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>,
        Henk Penning   <henkp@cs.ruu.nl>, Jared Rhine <Jared_Rhine@hmc.edu>,
        Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>,
        Jonathan Magid <jem@sunsite.unc.edu>,
        Lee McLoughlin <lmjm@doc.ic.ac.uk>, Mark Eichin <eichin@cygnus.com>,
        neilb@khoros.unm.edu, Tom Christiansen <tchrist@perl.com>,
        crabb@phoenix.princeton.edu (David Crabb),
        "Mark Pease" <markp@vlsi-az.sps.mot.com>,
        "Rodney C. Peck II" <rpeck@nas.nasa.gov>, djb@epx.cis.umn.edu,
        fox@acmi.com (Bob Fox), dwormuth@dsg.harvard.edu (David W. Wormuth),
        Jan.Djarv@sa.erisoft.se (Jan Djarv),
        Anno Siegel <anno4000@w172zrz.zrz.TU-Berlin.DE>,
        euler@ARPA.MIL (Jane Euler), Andreas Koenig <k@franz.ww.TU-Berlin.DE>,
        shafii@ksm.com.my (Shafii Abdullah),
        Steven Grady <grady@wcarchive.cdrom.com>, perl5-porters@pipex.net,
        Ian Burrell <iburrell@leland.Stanford.EDU>, dls@best.com,
        robotmp@itsa.ucsf.edu, Rodger Anderson <rodger@hpbs2245.boi.hp.com>,
        domo@tcp.ip.lu (Dominic Dunlop), awilcox@world.std.com (Andrew Wilcox),
        merlyn@stonehenge.com, matthew green <mrg@mame.mu.oz.au>,
        Frederic Chauveau <Frederic.Chauveau@pasteur.fr>,
        Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>, wscott@ichips.intel.com,
        jason@wagner.com (Jason Kastner), perl-packrats@afp.com,
        orwant@media.mit.edu, Gurusamy Sarathy <gsar@engin.umich.edu>
Subject: CPAN "private showing"
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


First of all sorry about the mass posting but metronet keeps refusing
my messages. Secondly, some of you may have got this already at least
once due to my frantic attempts :-) So, at least until metronet is
feeling better, the packrats list is dead.  I've contacted the
postmaster@metronet.com but to no avail so far.

---

I finally decided let this thing loose

	ftp.funet.fi:/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/

This "release" is mainly meant for the current keepers of the
various Perl archives.  Please take a look around, many looks,
tell me (and the perl-packrats) what do you think.  What do you
see that you do not like, what do you not see that you would like?
The hierarchy is to be blamed on me (with some cosmetic guidance from
the earlier packrats discussions :-).  Some kind souls (src.doc.ic.ac.uk
and ftp.metronet.com come to mind) could setup a mirroring from funet.

But there is a catch:
I will be leaving for a _long_ holiday starting the 7th of October,
will be non-Inet-connectible until the 10th of September.
Therefore, there is not much time for me to do any massive
enhancements for this skeletal CPAN.  BUT: please, Fellow Perl Archivists,
you have 6 weeks time to practise Comparative Perl Archaeology
and see what CPAN is lacking that _you_ have.  And because the goal
of the CPAN is to be the Mother of All Perl Archives...
Perl scripts, documentation, ports to non-UNIXy machines, tips,
tricks, trips and traps, Perl folklore/poetry, anything goes.

I guess I will not be putting up an incoming/ directory to funet.
Why? Because I guess there will be a lot of missing things and I do not
like the idea of returning from the long holiday AND after several days
of battling with my obscenely overflowing mailbox I would have to
wade through umpteen dozen little perl snippets in the incoming/.
I would prefer the following agenda: all you who have something
that CPAN is missing, please create tidy .tar.gz:s in somewhere
for me to ftp (and then, alas, drop me an email note about that...).
That tar very preferably already subdivided according to the CPAN hierarchy.

Suggestions about the hierarchy and more sites to be mirrored also
welcome.  Cc such suggestions to the packrats, they might need more
public hashing.

A general plea: some site could volunteer to be the perl5 extension site.

If you are a perl archivist but not yet on the packrats list, now
is the time to subscribe.  perl-packrats-request@metronet.com
if I am not mistaken.

Suggestions for the Archivists:
	- no shars, make them to be tars
	- no zips/lzhs/lhas for UNIX stuff, make them to be tars
	  (such native packing formats are quite ok for non-UNIX stuff)
	- no .Z, use .gz

Suggestions for tchrist:
	- the doc/ tree is all yours, do something about it :-)
	  (as it now stands it is a veritable mess)

The files ls-lR.gz, find-ls.gz, and MIRRORING.FROM are automagically
generated nightly.

This the MIRRORING.FROM as it now stands:

---
# Perl scripts from metronet
# daily: last update Mon Jul 31 07:05:25 EET DST 1995

ftp.metronet.com:/pub/perl/scripts/

# CPAN ANLpasswd
# weekly: last update Sun Jul 30 07:14:33 EET DST 1995

ftp.mcs.anl.gov:/pub/systems/anlpasswd.*|README.INSTALL.ANLPASSWD

# CPAN Perl Byacc
# weekly: last update Tue Jun 20 10:51:29 EET DST 1995

ftp.sterling.com:/local/perl-byacc.*.tar.Z

# CPAN Berkeley DB
# weekly: last update Sun Jul 30 07:18:44 EET DST 1995

ftp.cs.berkeley.edu:/ucb/4bsd/db.*.tar.gz

# CPAN FAQ
# weekly: last update Sun Jul 30 07:16:50 EET DST 1995

ftp.cis.ufl.edu:/pub/perl/doc/FAQ.gz

# CPAN GNU DBM
# weekly: last update Sun Jul 30 07:18:44 EET DST 1995

prep.ai.mit.edu:/pub/gnu/gdbm.*.tar.gz

# CPAN metaFAQ
# weekly: last update Sun Jul 30 07:16:50 EET DST 1995

ftp.khoros.unm.edu:/pub/perl/metaFAQ.ps|metaFAQ.txt|metaFAQ-html.tar.gz

# CPAN MSDOS Perl
# weekly: last update Sun Jul 30 07:16:04 EET DST 1995

ftp.ee.umanitoba.ca:/pub/msdos/perl/

# CPAN O'Reilly
# weekly: last update Sun Jul 30 07:17:09 EET DST 1995

ftp.ora.com:/pub/examples/nutshell/learning_perl|programming_perl|ujip/perl

# CPAN DBPerl
# daily: last update Mon Jul 31 02:01:36 EET DST 1995

ftp.demon.co.uk:/pub/perl/db/

# CPAN MacPerl
# weekly: last update Sun Jul 30 02:02:06 EET DST 1995

nic.switch.ch:/software/mac/perl/

---

++jhi;

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Mon Jul 31 22:56:25 1995
Received: from vinkku.hut.fi by metronet.com with SMTP id AA03615
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Mon, 31 Jul 1995 17:55:21 -0500
Return-Path: <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Received: from beta.hut.fi (beta.hut.fi [130.233.224.51]) by vinkku.hut.fi (8.6.11/8.6.7) with ESMTP id BAA26130; Tue, 1 Aug 1995 01:56:26 +0300
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Date: Tue, 1 Aug 1995 01:56:25 +0300
Message-Id: <199507312256.BAA21892@beta.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: testing.
In-Reply-To: <9507312047.aa20238@post.demon.co.uk>
References: <9507312047.aa20238@post.demon.co.uk>
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
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[we'll see whether the packrats list stands this...]

> Even if it's not fully sorted yet, having one definitive site for
> uploads would be very helpful.

Well, otherwise a very good point...the trouble being that I will be
away for quite a long while, so the funet is out. Any other volunteers
for The Upload Site?

> What's the story with CPAN? (ARK? PARK?)

REEPH :-)

++jhi;

From fmc@pasteur.fr Tue Aug  1 10:08:21 1995
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From: Frederic Chauveau <Frederic.Chauveau@pasteur.fr>
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: testing.
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Comme le disait Jarkko Hietaniemi :
[we'll see whether the packrats list stands this...]
+> 
+> > Even if it's not fully sorted yet, having one definitive site for
+> > uploads would be very helpful.
+> 
+> Well, otherwise a very good point...the trouble being that I will be
+> away for quite a long while, so the funet is out. Any other volunteers
+> for The Upload Site?

I can furnish space here with no troubles. Up to 2 Go in a first time, more if
needed.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fridiric Chauveau		     			       Institut Pasteur
fmc@pasteur.fr
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Language design is 10% science and 90% psychology. -- Larry Wall, Perl Author
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From prosoft@deltanet.com Tue Aug  1 12:19:55 1995
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To: PERL CONTACT <perl-packrats@metronet.com>
Subject: Windows Software
Date: Tue, 01 Aug 95 07:19:55 -0500
From: Jim Ray <prosoft@deltanet.com>
X-Mailer: E-Mail Connection v2.5.03

-- [ From: Jim Ray * EMC.Ver #2.5.02 ] --

Is there a version a PERL that runs under Windows.  I have download the
latest indformation on ERIN what to use PERL to format it.  I thought there
was a Windows, but what I see seems to be only UNIX base software.  Thanks
for the help.


--
Jim (Hawk) Ray - Email:prosoft@deltanet.com
                          !
                         /_\
                  =====/` - '\=====
                      ( ( O ) )
-______-------________/\  -  /\_______--------______--
    ---------____***___/`---'\__***____--------
ProSoft Computer Services - FAX:(714) 838-1742

From japeters@dal.mobil.com Wed Aug  2 20:46:24 1995
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From: japeters@dal.mobil.com (J.A. Peters [Jim])
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: MacPerl grief
Cc: txwillia@dal.mobil.com

It appears that the Mac Perl files on Metronet's ftp site are munged.
They need to be .hqx formatted for proper transfer to and from Mac's.

The specific files are:

	ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/source/Mac_Perl_413_appl.sit.bin
	ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/source/Mac_Perl_418_appl.bin

Regards,
Jim, japeters@dal.mobil.com

From wjm  Wed Aug  2 22:17:54 1995
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From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Wed, 2 Aug 1995 22:17:42 -0500
In-Reply-To: japeters@dal.mobil.com (J.A. Peters [Jim])
       "MacPerl grief" (Aug  2,  3:46pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: japeters@dal.mobil.com (J.A. Peters [Jim])
Subject: Re: MacPerl grief
Cc: perl-packrats

} Subject: MacPerl grief
} 
} It appears that the Mac Perl files on Metronet's ftp site are munged.
} They need to be .hqx formatted for proper transfer to and from Mac's.

They worked fine for me, when I downloaded them to my Mac.  Are you
setting auto mac binary transfers in  your client?


Bill

From tle@cs.uml.edu Thu Aug  3 14:06:42 1995
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Subject: help
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From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Mon Aug  7 17:21:51 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN "private showing"
Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 18:21:51 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9508072007.aa19471@post.demon.co.uk>


> From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
> 
> I finally decided let this thing loose
> 
> 	ftp.funet.fi:/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/
> 
> This "release" is mainly meant for the current keepers of the
> various Perl archives.  Please take a look around, many looks,
> tell me (and the perl-packrats) what do you think.  What do you
> see that you do not like, what do you not see that you would like?
> The hierarchy is to be blamed on me (with some cosmetic guidance from
> the earlier packrats discussions :-).  Some kind souls (src.doc.ic.ac.uk
> and ftp.metronet.com come to mind) could setup a mirroring from funet.
> 
> But there is a catch:
> I will be leaving for a _long_ holiday starting the 7th of October,
> will be non-Inet-connectible until the 10th of September.
> Therefore, there is not much time for me to do any massive
> enhancements for this skeletal CPAN.  BUT: please, Fellow Perl Archivists,
> you have 6 weeks time to practise Comparative Perl Archaeology
> and see what CPAN is lacking that _you_ have.  And because the goal
> of the CPAN is to be the Mother of All Perl Archives...
> Perl scripts, documentation, ports to non-UNIXy machines, tips,
> tricks, trips and traps, Perl folklore/poetry, anything goes.
> 
The list seems remarkably quiet since this message. Is it still broken?

Tim.

From kjahds@kjahds.com Mon Aug  7 19:55:29 1995
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Date: Mon, 7 Aug 1995 15:55:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN "private showing"
In-Reply-To: <9508072007.aa19471@post.demon.co.uk>
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On Mon, 7 Aug 1995, Tim Bunce wrote:

> The list seems remarkably quiet since this message. Is it still broken?

I'm getting it. 

> Tim.

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From wjm  Mon Aug 14 01:26:54 1995
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From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Mon, 14 Aug 1995 01:26:41 -0500
In-Reply-To: Ade Miller <amiller@futurenet.co.uk>
       "The PERL programming language" (Aug  9,  7:20pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Ade Miller <amiller@futurenet.co.uk>
Subject: Re: The PERL programming language
Cc: perl-packrats

On Aug 9,  7:20pm, Ade Miller wrote:
} Subject: The PERL programming language
} Hi,
} 
}   I was looking at your web page on Perl as I was thinking about 
} reviewing it for the next issue of The .net Directory.  I'd really 
} like to review it as the number of resources available for Perl 5
} are somewhat limited.  There seem to be a few bad links etc on the
} site.  Are there any plans to fix these in the near future?
} 
} Ade
} 
} -- 
} Ade Miller, WWW Programmer
} FutureNet,		   URL:   http://www.futurenet.co.uk/	
} Future Publishing Ltd,	   Email: amiller@futurenet.co.uk
} 30 Monmouth St.,	   Phone: 01225-442244 ext. 2456
} Bath, Avon, BA1 2BW	   Fax:   01225-423212
}-- End of excerpt from Ade Miller



Hi,

  Thanks for your interest.  Yes there were some broken links, due
to the switch here from gn to httpd on port 80.  I've now 
generated an index.html for all directories, so most of the links
should be fixed.  However, I'd recommend joining the perl-packrats
list here for info on the CPAN (Comprehensive Perl Archive Network)
that's well underway.  Send a 

subscribe perl-packrats

in the body of a mail to perl-packrats-request@metronet.com
to join up.  Have a look at 

http://www.metronet.com/perlinfo/packrats/mailing-list

for the discussions to date.

  Packrats, if you're mirroring the metronet archive, please update
your mirror now.  Also, as per the above, you should now be able to serve
the mirror vi httpd or any standard http server.  I've used relative
url's in the conversion everywhere except on a few of the gn'isms
that don't have a simple html equivalent. (like 1m)

Bill

From Graham.Barr@tiuk.ti.com Mon Aug 14 07:43:00 1995
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 95 13:43:05 BST
Message-Id: <9508141243.AA02100@getafix>
To: js@biu.icnet.uk
Cc: perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: MailTools-1.02a.tar.gz NetTools-1.01a.tar.gz Domainname-1.01a.tar.gz



ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/incoming/MailTools-1.02a.tar.gz
ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/incoming/NetTools-1.01a.tar.gz
ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/incoming/Domainname-1.01a.tar.gz

Jack - please move to perlmods and annouce to perl5-porters and perl-packrats
when it is there.

MailTools-1.02a.tar.gz  replace Mail-RFC822 as the distribution does not 
only contain RFC822 specific stuff

The packages contain the following

MailTools-1.02a.tar.gz
	Mail::Address.pm
	Mail::MIME.pm
	Mail::Mailer.pm
	Mail::RFC822.pm
	Mail::Send.pm
	Mail::Util.pm
	  read_mbox
	  maildomain

NetTools-1.01a.tar.gz 
	Net::FTP.pm
	Net::SMTP.pm

Domainname-1.01a.tar.gz
	Sys::Domainname

Regards,
Graham.
--
        .-----------------------------------------------------------.  
  ////  | Graham Barr                Email: bodg@tiuk.ti.com        |  \\\\ 
 |  00  | VLSI Cell Designer            or: bodg@ti.com             |  00  |
 O   ^  | MOS Design                TI MSG: BODG                    |  ^   O
  \ ~/  | Texas Instruments Ltd      Phone: +44 (0)1604 66 3419     |  \~ / 
        | ENGLAND                      Fax: +44 (0)1604 66 3456     |
        `-----------------------------------------------------------'

From js@biu.icnet.uk Mon Aug 14 07:48:00 1995
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           by bison.lif.icnet.uk; Mon, 14 Aug 95 13:48:24 BST
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Date: Mon, 14 Aug 95 13:48:24 BST
From: js@biu.icnet.uk (Jack Shirazi - BIU)
Sender: js@biu.icnet.uk
To: Graham.Barr@tiuk.ti.com
Subject: Re: MailTools-1.02a.tar.gz NetTools-1.01a.tar.gz Domainname-1.01a.tar.gz
Cc: perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com


> ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/incoming/MailTools-1.02a.tar.gz
> ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/incoming/NetTools-1.01a.tar.gz
> ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/incoming/Domainname-1.01a.tar.gz
> 
> Jack - please move to perlmods and annouce to perl5-porters and perl-packrats
> when it is there.

Done. Now available at

ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/MailTools-1.02a.tar.gz
ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/NetTools-1.01a.tar.gz
ftp.icnet.uk:/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Domainname-1.01a.tar.gz

From k@anna.mind.de Tue Aug 15 13:55:28 1995
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	 id PAA14358; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 15:55:28 +0200
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 15:55:28 +0200
Message-Id: <199508151355.PAA14358@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Cc: Frederic Chauveau <Frederic.Chauveau@pasteur.fr>,
        Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Subject: homeless modules
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

Packrats,

once again I'm ready to do something for the countless modules
floating around. Please read this terse posting, I *need* your
feedback.

My first cut at a modulelist server was an interesting experience, but
not good enough IMO to be continued. I have been thinking about a
different approach. Please tell me your impressions. It's high time to
get this going. We owe Jarkko everything to be in place when he
returns from his holidays :)

Frederic Chauveau has kindly offered 2 GB diskspace. That's great,
Frederic, thank you.

I still can offer franz.ww.tu-berlin.de, a net location with a 64k
connection and 100 MB free disk space. The advantage of franz is that
I can manage it from home with a (nearly) reasonable fast
connection. It's obvious that 100 MB is only a buffer zone and 64k is
useless for the masses.

So my idea how Frederic and franz could play a nice game is the
following: franz keeps a people and modules database. The modules
database won't take the role of Tim's modulelist ever, but I would try
to keep it close. Tim's list has precedence.

Every module will have an owner and an associated directory. I will
allow the owner to enter URIs into a database. These will be mirrored
into their own directories on franz. An incoming directory would serve
as a last-resort URI for folks without any upload possibility.

Frederic would have to mirror franz every hour or so. franz would
delete stuff after a few days (provided they have reached Frederic's
site). Frederic is that feasible for you?

Module/directory owners have to have a chance to delete stuff in their
directories (including the whole directory). I would produce lists of
files that have to be deleted on a regular basis for Frederic. I will
keep the list short by getting Frederic's INDEX regularly.

The differences between this approach and my first one are:
- no attempt to automate Tim's modulelist
- no production of HTML pages
- minimal maintenance impacts

How does that sound for you? I'm starting to implement *now*. If you
see a showstopper, tell me quick!

andreas




From tchrist@mox.perl.com Tue Aug 15 14:29:02 1995
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To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        Frederic Chauveau <Frederic.Chauveau@pasteur.fr>,
        Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: homeless modules 
In-Reply-To: Andreas Koenig's message <199508151355.PAA14358@anna.mind.de> of Tue, 15 Aug 95 15:55:28 +0200.
References: <199508151355.PAA14358@anna.mind.de> 
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 08:29:02 MDT
Message-Id: <8438.808496942@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

i'm interested in making a "definitive" perl home page at
http://www.perl.com, and would love to have a module list 
with hyperlinks to the real ftp points.  i'll also install
query capabilities like nexor's, and have a query system 
for larry's bugs database.

suggestions?

--tom

From fmc@pasteur.fr Tue Aug 15 14:32:17 1995
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 16:32:17 +0200
Message-Id: <199508151432.QAA04193@cleopatre.pasteur.fr>
From: Frederic Chauveau <Frederic.Chauveau@pasteur.fr>
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>,
        Frederic Chauveau <Frederic.Chauveau@pasteur.fr>
Subject: Re: homeless modules
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Looks like no trouble on my side. Mirroring franz every hour or so is easy and
keeping the site here up-to-date looks no trouble either. And if 2Go aren't
enough, I should be able to find 1 or 2 more Go in a pinch :) 

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fridiric Chauveau		     			       Institut Pasteur
fmc@pasteur.fr
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Communication fails, except by accident.
						Osmo A. Wiio
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Tue Aug 15 15:29:46 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com,
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        cgi-perl@webstorm.com
Subject: CD ROM Requests!!
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 09:29:46 MDT
Message-Id: <9652.808500586@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

For the USENIX LISA conference in September, we're including with all
tutorials a complementary CD with as much freeware as we can jam on it
(plus conference-attendees can get extras if they want).  I'd like to have
the perl5.001m release plus as much supplementary material as I can find.
This means

    /perl/src		- the 5.001m source, and maybe non Unix stuff?
    /perl/ext		- unbundled modules (curses, cgi, tk, etc)
    /perl/docs		- faq, metafaq, modules list, etc?
    /perl/slides	- my beginning perl course, plus the gui perl bits

What I'd like your help in is the ext/ directory in particular, plus
any doc/ stuff that's appropriate and maybe even any !unix src/ stuff.
When this is done, I'll make the whole tree available on perl.com via anon
ftp and http browsing.

Now, I was unable to find a good definitive modules site to ftp.  Do we
really still not have one?  I have a very short deadline on this, so I'd
like nominations for where I can ftp in current, up-to-date modules.  I'd
like everything I can possibly find and more.  But please no software that
requires special licencing, just the std perl licence: GPL or Artistic.
I'd as a base like everything in perl.com:/pub/perl/ext (but updated!!!)
and as much as I can ftp from the modules list, but I don't know where to
fine these.  Also, if anyone has a free module out there they DON'T want
on there, you might mention this to me too.

Please respond within 36 hours if you're going to do so.

thanks very much,

--tom

From k@anna.mind.de Tue Aug 15 16:14:58 1995
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Return-Path: <k@anna.mind.de>
Received: by anna.mind.de (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI)
	 id SAA14811; Tue, 15 Aug 1995 18:14:58 +0200
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 18:14:58 +0200
Message-Id: <199508151614.SAA14811@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9652.808500586@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Tue, 15
	Aug 95 09:29:46 MDT)
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!!
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

  >Please respond within 36 hours if you're going to do so.

My collector thingie won't be done within 36 hours, so I send you all
ftp and http URLs I have in my humble database. Be aware some are
directories, some are files. All links have been entered into the base
by the authors themselves.

Please do not redistribute the list elsewhere, these links were
provided under the restraint that the information be kept within the
packrats list.

ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/pub/perl
ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/src/5.0/ext/StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.huji.ac.il/users/amoss/SGI-FM-0.1.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.huji.ac.il/users/amoss/SGI-GL-0.2.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.huji.ac.il/users/amoss/SGI-SysCalls-0.1.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.icnet.ak.uk//icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods
ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/
ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/EventDrivenServer-1.2.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/InitializeServer-1.0.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Prolog-alpha.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.khoros.unm.edu/pub/perl/extensions/MD5-1.1.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.math.ohio-state.edu/pub/users/ilya/perl
ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/perl5/extensions/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.ncsu.edu/pub/math/wsetzer/Curses-a8.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/perl/Tcl-b1.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/perl/TclTk-b1.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/Sx-1.6.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/Sx-2.0-Beta.tar.gz
ftp://ftp.wpi.edu/perl5/Modules/StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz
ftp://ls6-www.informatik.uni-dortmund.de/pub/wais/waisperl-0.2.tar.gz
ftp://ls6-www.informatik.uni-dortmund.de/pub/wais/waisperl5-0.3.1.tar.gz
ftp://ls6-www.informatik.uni-dortmund.de/pub/wais/waisperl5-0.3.tar.gz
ftp://metronet.com/pub/perl/perl5/extensions/NNTPClient-0.17
ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Ioctl-0.5.tar.Z
ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Term-Control-0.1.tar.Z
ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Term-Info-1.0.tar.Z
ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/TermReadKey-1.98.tar.Z
http://numeric.adr.com/Perl/Perl5Modules.html
http://www.metronet.com/~tye/


andreas

From wjm  Tue Aug 15 11:50:46 1995
Received: by metronet.com id AA25121
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for perl-packrats); Tue, 15 Aug 1995 11:50:22 -0500
Return-Path: <wjm>
Message-Id: <199508151650.AA25121@metronet.com>
From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 11:50:22 -0500
In-Reply-To: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
       "Re: CD ROM Requests!!" (Aug 15,  6:14pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!!
Cc: perl-packrats

On Aug 15,  6:14pm, Andreas Koenig wrote:
} Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!!
}   >Please respond within 36 hours if you're going to do so.
} 
} My collector thingie won't be done within 36 hours, so I send you all
} ftp and http URLs I have in my humble database. Be aware some are
} directories, some are files. All links have been entered into the base
} by the authors themselves.
} 
} Please do not redistribute the list elsewhere, these links were
} provided under the restraint that the information be kept within the
} packrats list.
} 
} ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/pub/perl
} ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/src/5.0/ext/StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.huji.ac.il/users/amoss/SGI-FM-0.1.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.huji.ac.il/users/amoss/SGI-GL-0.2.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.huji.ac.il/users/amoss/SGI-SysCalls-0.1.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.icnet.ak.uk//icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods
} ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/
} ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/EventDrivenServer-1.2.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/InitializeServer-1.0.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/Prolog-alpha.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.khoros.unm.edu/pub/perl/extensions/MD5-1.1.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.math.ohio-state.edu/pub/users/ilya/perl
} ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/perl5/extensions/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.ncsu.edu/pub/math/wsetzer/Curses-a8.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/perl/Tcl-b1.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.ox.ac.uk/pub/perl/TclTk-b1.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/Sx-1.6.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/Sx-2.0-Beta.tar.gz
} ftp://ftp.wpi.edu/perl5/Modules/StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz
} ftp://ls6-www.informatik.uni-dortmund.de/pub/wais/waisperl-0.2.tar.gz
} ftp://ls6-www.informatik.uni-dortmund.de/pub/wais/waisperl5-0.3.1.tar.gz
} ftp://ls6-www.informatik.uni-dortmund.de/pub/wais/waisperl5-0.3.tar.gz
} ftp://metronet.com/pub/perl/perl5/extensions/NNTPClient-0.17
} ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Ioctl-0.5.tar.Z
} ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Term-Control-0.1.tar.Z
} ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Term-Info-1.0.tar.Z
} ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/TermReadKey-1.98.tar.Z
} http://numeric.adr.com/Perl/Perl5Modules.html
} http://www.metronet.com/~tye/
} 
} 
} andreas
}-- End of excerpt from Andreas Koenig

Here's what's currently living on metronet in /pub/perl/perl5/extensions
I just recently updated with all the sites I could find, and I'm putting 
relevant announcements as they are posted by Randal in there too.  
(Someone needs to start archiving clpa now.)

Note that some of the url's above are out of date.  Thus,
I highly recommend that, if we're going to have a list of these in
html, that we use directory url's only, allowing the client to select
the version of his/her choice once they've gotten the directory listing.


Bill



total 5728
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       2606 May 10 10:29 AddINC-1.1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       1690 Jul 30 11:18 AlarmCall-1.1.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       3858 Jul 28 10:34 AlarmCall-1.1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      48604 Jul 16 11:33 CGI-modules-1.09.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       6820 May 16 23:26 CGI.pm-1.4
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       3479 Jul 31 13:08 CallerItem-1.0.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      26935 Mar 28 23:52 Curses-a8.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       3874 Apr 16 21:22 DBZ_File.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       1394 Apr 16 17:33 DBperl.README.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       1615 Apr 16 17:33 DES.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       6504 Apr 16 17:33 DProf.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       6512 Apr 16 17:33 Date-GetDate-0.01a.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       1684 Aug  7 20:06 DevelCallerItem.module.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin        122 Apr 11 14:56 DoWhatIWant.pm.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       2306 Jul 31 13:08 DumpStack-1.1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       6429 Apr 13 12:51 Dumper
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       2704 Aug 13 04:01 EventDriven.freeware.announcement
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      56197 Aug  7 16:36 EventDrivenServer-2.1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       7653 May 14 18:42 FileKGlob.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       4165 Jul 13 22:25 GD.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       5320 Apr 16 17:33 GL-0.2.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin     108769 Jun  8 06:57 Getdate-950410.shar
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       1350 Aug  7 20:06 IPC-SysV.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      10378 Aug  2 17:12 IPC_SysV.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       5189 Apr 16 17:33 InitializeServer-1.0.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       5405 Apr 16 17:33 MD5.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       2111 Jul 20 16:06 MSQLPerl-1.0.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      12657 May 23 12:59 Mail-RFC822-1.01a.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      44284 Aug  7 22:08 MakeMaker-4.18.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      13007 Apr 16 17:33 MathPari_a3.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       6727 Jul 30 22:43 Module.site.info
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      13505 Jul 30 22:15 MsqlPerl-1.01.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      30126 Jun  4 10:47 NNTPClient-0.17
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       8797 May 23 12:59 Net-FTP-1.01a.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      37316 Apr 25 01:40 Net-ext-a6.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       7618 Apr 16 17:33 Prolog-alpha.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       3260 Aug 14 09:48 SGML-1.01.pm.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       5247 May 14 18:42 SHA-1.0.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       5860 Apr 24 09:24 SYS_funcs.shar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       6415 Jul 16 11:48 SelfLoader.pm
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       4219 Apr 16 17:33 Socket-5.001d.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin        525 Apr 24 14:50 Stack.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       4098 May 14 18:42 StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       3373 Apr 16 17:33 StatsBasic.pm.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       2913 Apr 12 23:52 StatsBasic.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin     102744 Aug  7 20:40 Sx-2.1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       1184 Aug  7 20:05 Sx2.1.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       2302 Aug  7 20:03 Sybase2b2.announc
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      26245 Jul  3 16:09 Symdump-1.19.shar
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      18568 Apr 16 17:33 Tcl-perl-a2.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      21915 Apr 16 17:33 TermReadKey-1.96.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       2337 Jul 30 10:39 Tk-b7.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin    1902238 Jul 28 15:14 Tk-b7.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       1932 Aug  1 09:37 UNIVERSAL-1.0.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      11109 Apr 16 17:33 Usage-beta.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       1980 Apr 13 12:48 Xbase.url
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      12899 Jul 18 22:35 listing.html
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin         82 Apr 12 23:55 menu
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      55857 Aug 13 03:59 module.list.950809
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      47803 Apr 16 09:00 modules.list
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      17315 Apr 16 17:33 modules.list.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       2339 Aug  7 21:09 perlvision.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       2483 May 25 21:00 pgperl.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin      79191 Aug  7 21:02 pgperl5_1.0b_src.tar.Z
-rw-r--r--   1 wjm      admin       5279 Apr 13 12:44 safe.url

From lstein@genome.wi.mit.edu Tue Aug 15 18:02:53 1995
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  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Tue, 15 Aug 1995 12:01:17 -0500
Return-Path: <lstein@genome.wi.mit.edu>
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	id AA13584; Tue, 15 Aug 95 13:02:13 -0400
Message-Id: <ac5690ef37021003c89a@[18.157.0.189]>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 13:02:53 -0500
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
From: lstein@genome.wi.mit.edu (Lincoln D. Stein)
Subject: Modules
Cc: cgi-perl@webstorm.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com

Tom,

The definitive CGI modules and an up-to-date mirror of the URL module are
stored at:

        ftp://ftp-genome.wi.mit.edu/pub/software/WWW/CGIperl/

You'll also want to include "CGI-lite", aka CGI.pm, located at

        ftp://ftp-genome.wi.mit.edu/pub/software/WWW/CGI.pm.tar.Z

Your readers may also like the interface to libgd, for drawing GIF files,
located at

        ftp://ftp-genome.wi.mit.edu/pub/software/WWW/GD.pm.tar.Z

Lincoln

========================================================================
Lincoln Stein, M.D.,Ph.D.                       lstein@genome.wi.mit.edu
Director: Informatics Core
MIT Genome Center                               (617) 252-1916
Whitehead Institute for Biomedical Research     (617) 252-1902 FAX
One Kendall Square
Cambridge, MA 02139
=================http://www-genome.wi.mit.edu/~lstein====================


From kjahds@kjahds.com Tue Aug 15 17:43:58 1995
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  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Tue, 15 Aug 1995 12:58:56 -0500
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Received: by kjahds.com (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0siQ1u-0000a2C;
	  Tue, 15 Aug 95 13:43 EDT
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 13:43:58 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!!
In-Reply-To: <199508151614.SAA14811@anna.mind.de>
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950815134230.700K-100000@kjahds.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Andreas Koenig wrote:

> ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Ioctl-0.5.tar.Z
> ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Term-Control-0.1.tar.Z

Ouch. This modules list stuff needs some thought. Neither of these are in
a usable state. They are just on the site for archival completeness. 

> ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/TermReadKey-1.98.tar.Z

Same difference -- current version is 1.99.

> andreas

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From tchrist@mox.perl.com Tue Aug 15 18:01:48 1995
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To: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!! 
In-Reply-To: Kenneth Albanowski's message <Pine.LNX.3.91.950815134230.700K-100000@kjahds.com> of Tue, 15 Aug 95 13:43:58 EDT.
References: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950815134230.700K-100000@kjahds.com> 
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 12:01:48 MDT
Message-Id: <13703.808509708@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

> On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Andreas Koenig wrote:

> > ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Ioctl-0.5.tar.Z
> > ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Term-Control-0.1.tar.Z

> Ouch. This modules list stuff needs some thought. Neither of these are in
> a usable state. They are just on the site for archival completeness. 

> > ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/TermReadKey-1.98.tar.Z

> Same difference -- current version is 1.99.

Could you please point us at a usable version?

thanks,

--tom

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Tue Aug 15 17:06:25 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com, perl5-porters@nicoh.com, ptk@wpi.edu,
        cgi-perl@webstorm.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!!
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 18:06:25 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9508151804.aa02924@post.demon.co.uk>


> From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
> 
> This means
> 
>     /perl/src		- the 5.001m source, and maybe non Unix stuff?
>     /perl/ext		- unbundled modules (curses, cgi, tk, etc)
>     /perl/docs	- faq, metafaq, modules list, etc?
>     /perl/slides	- my beginning perl course, plus the gui perl bits
> 
> What I'd like your help in is the ext/ directory in particular,

Umm, /perl/ext or /perl/mod or both?

> plus any doc/ stuff that's appropriate and maybe even any !unix src/ stuff.
> When this is done, I'll make the whole tree available on perl.com via anon
> ftp and http browsing.
> 
> Now, I was unable to find a good definitive modules site to ftp.  Do we
> really still not have one?

I think the CPAN beta at

	ftp.funet.fi:/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/

has all its mirrors (11) running so should have just about everything.

> --tom
> 
Tim.

From kjahds@kjahds.com Tue Aug 15 18:19:51 1995
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	  Tue, 15 Aug 95 14:19 EDT
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 14:19:51 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!! 
In-Reply-To: <13703.808509708@mox>
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950815141640.700M-100000@kjahds.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Tom Christiansen wrote:

> > On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Andreas Koenig wrote:
> 
> > > ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Ioctl-0.5.tar.Z
> > > ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Term-Control-0.1.tar.Z
> 
> > Ouch. This modules list stuff needs some thought. Neither of these are in
> > a usable state. They are just on the site for archival completeness. 
> 
> > > ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/TermReadKey-1.98.tar.Z
> 
> > Same difference -- current version is 1.99.
> 
> Could you please point us at a usable version?

ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/TermReadKey-1.99.tar.Z

Unfortunately numeric seems to be down right now. Does someone have a
handy incoming directory for modules that I can upload it to? Metronet,
perhaps? 

> thanks,
> 
> --tom
> 

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From tchrist@mox.perl.com Tue Aug 15 18:32:52 1995
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To: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
Cc: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>, andreas.koenig@mind.de,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!! 
In-Reply-To: Kenneth Albanowski's message <Pine.LNX.3.91.950815141640.700M-100000@kjahds.com> of Tue, 15 Aug 95 14:19:51 EDT.
References: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950815141640.700M-100000@kjahds.com> 
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 12:32:52 MDT
Message-Id: <14414.808511572@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

> On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Tom Christiansen wrote:

> > > On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Andreas Koenig wrote:
> > 
> > > > ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Ioctl-0.5.tar.Z
> > > > ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/Term-Control-0.1.tar.Z
> > 
> > > Ouch. This modules list stuff needs some thought. Neither of these are in
> > > a usable state. They are just on the site for archival completeness. 
> > 
> > > > ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/TermReadKey-1.98.tar.Z
> > 
> > > Same difference -- current version is 1.99.
> > 
> > Could you please point us at a usable version?

> ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/TermReadKey-1.99.tar.Z

> Unfortunately numeric seems to be down right now. Does someone have a
> handy incoming directory for modules that I can upload it to? Metronet,
> perhaps? 

You may use mine if you're very patient. :-(

--tom

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Tue Aug 15 16:45:15 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com, andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: homeless modules
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 17:45:15 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
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> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
> So my idea how Frederic and franz could play a nice game is the
> following: franz keeps a people and modules database. The modules
> database won't take the role of Tim's modulelist ever, but I would try
> to keep it close. Tim's list has precedence.
> 
I'd view convergence as a medium to long term goal.

My strategy would be to parse the Module List into a simple ascii
'database' and write some code to build new Module Lists from that
database. That would actually simplify my maintenance of the list.
Once we have a 'database' then we can start thinking about adding
value to it and/or integrating it with other work such as yours.

The two can remain separate for now. It would be helpful if I could
be sent notifications when new modules appear but not vital.

> The differences between this approach and my first one are:
> - no attempt to automate Tim's modulelist
> - no production of HTML pages
> - minimal maintenance impacts
> 
Sounds like a good 'keep it simple, get it working' approach.

> andreas
> 
Tim.

From kjahds@kjahds.com Tue Aug 15 18:37:27 1995
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 14:37:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!! 
In-Reply-To: <14414.808511572@mox>
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950815143701.700N-100000@kjahds.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Tom Christiansen wrote:

> You may use mine if you're very patient. :-(

Done. ftp.perl.com:/incoming/TermReadKey-1.99.tar.Z

> --tom

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From wjm  Tue Aug 15 13:50:58 1995
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From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 13:50:48 -0500
In-Reply-To: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
       "Re: CD ROM Requests!!" (Aug 15,  2:19pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!!
Cc: perl-packrats, perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com

On Aug 15,  2:19pm, Kenneth Albanowski wrote:
} Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!!
} On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Tom Christiansen wrote:
} 

On the subject of no good scheme for module mirroring...

} ftp://numeric.adr.com/pub/perl/modules/TermReadKey-1.99.tar.Z
} 
} Unfortunately numeric seems to be down right now. Does someone have a
} handy incoming directory for modules that I can upload it to? Metronet,
} perhaps? 
} 

ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/incoming

has 333 perms.  The admins here seem to be ok with that.
Upload and drop me a line, with what, if anything, to
replace in favor of the new module, and I'll drop it in.

Bill

From rjray@snakepit.ecte.uswc.uswest.com Tue Aug 15 19:04:42 1995
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Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!!
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk (Tim Bunce)
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 13:04:42 -0600 (MDT)
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, perl5-porters@nicoh.com, ptk@WPI.EDU,
        cgi-perl@webstorm.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
In-Reply-To:  <9508151804.aa02924@post.demon.co.uk> from "Tim Bunce" at Aug 15, 95 06:06:25 pm
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>> This means
>> 
>>     /perl/src		- the 5.001m source, and maybe non Unix stuff?
>>     /perl/ext		- unbundled modules (curses, cgi, tk, etc)
>>     /perl/docs	- faq, metafaq, modules list, etc?
>>     /perl/slides	- my beginning perl course, plus the gui perl bits
>> 
>> What I'd like your help in is the ext/ directory in particular,
>
>Umm, /perl/ext or /perl/mod or both?
>

I would go with Tim on this-- assuming that /perl/src is the same tree that
untars from any perl5.001?.tar, then it has a directory under it called ext,
right? Why confuse the issue with a similar directory one level higher? I 
would even go as far as calling it /perl/modules.

Randy
-- 
^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^v^
Randy J. Ray -- U S WEST Technologies IAD/CSS/DPDS         Phone: (303)607-5268
                Denver, CO                   rjray@lookout.ecte.uswc.uswest.com

I don't suffer from insanity.  I enjoy every minute of it.

From kjahds@kjahds.com Tue Aug 15 19:14:22 1995
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 15:14:22 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Bill Middleton <wjm@metronet.com>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!!
In-Reply-To: <199508151850.AA29926@metronet.com>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Bill Middleton wrote:

> ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/incoming
> 
> has 333 perms.  The admins here seem to be ok with that.
> Upload and drop me a line, with what, if anything, to
> replace in favor of the new module, and I'll drop it in.

OK, you've got a copy too. TermReadKey-1.99.tar.Z. Replace any previous
TermReadKey versions (1.96, 1.98, etc.) with this one. 

> Bill

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From steve.potter@amp.com Tue Aug 15 20:08:34 1995
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 16:08:34 EDT
From: steve.potter@amp.com (Stephen Potter)
To: perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!!

> >> This means
> >> 
> >>     /perl/src		- the 5.001m source, and maybe non Unix stuff?
> >>     /perl/ext		- unbundled modules (curses, cgi, tk, etc)
> >>     /perl/docs	- faq, metafaq, modules list, etc?
> >>     /perl/slides	- my beginning perl course, plus the gui perl bits
> >> 
> >> What I'd like your help in is the ext/ directory in particular,
> >
> >Umm, /perl/ext or /perl/mod or both?
> >
> 
> I would go with Tim on this-- assuming that /perl/src is the same tree that
> untars from any perl5.001?.tar, then it has a directory under it called ext,
> right? Why confuse the issue with a similar directory one level higher? I 
> would even go as far as calling it /perl/modules.

Uh, if I understand the original question correctly, this is for a CD layout,
and /perl/src will have the tar file of perl5.001m (or whatever).  So, it is
similar to the ftp sites layouts.  In which case, I would definitely suggest
/perl/ext as someone who sees ext knows that extensions are in there, the
same as /perl/src/perl5.001m/ext contains the standard extensions.

-spp

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Tue Aug 15 21:57:44 1995
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To: steve.potter@amp.com (Stephen Potter)
Cc: perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!! 
In-Reply-To: Stephen Potter's message <199508152101.AA05935@metronet.com> of Tue, 15 Aug 95 16:08:34 EDT.
References: <199508152101.AA05935@metronet.com> 
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 95 15:57:44 MDT
Message-Id: <19874.808523864@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

> > >> This means
> > >> 
> > >>     /perl/src		- the 5.001m source, and maybe non Unix stuff?
> > >>     /perl/ext		- unbundled modules (curses, cgi, tk, etc)
> > >>     /perl/docs	- faq, metafaq, modules list, etc?
> > >>     /perl/slides	- my beginning perl course, plus the gui perl bits
> > >> 
> > >> What I'd like your help in is the ext/ directory in particular,
> > >
> > >Umm, /perl/ext or /perl/mod or both?
> > >
> > 
> > I would go with Tim on this-- assuming that /perl/src is the same tree that
> > untars from any perl5.001?.tar, then it has a directory under it called ext,
> > right? Why confuse the issue with a similar directory one level higher? I 
> > would even go as far as calling it /perl/modules.

> Uh, if I understand the original question correctly, this is for a CD layout,
> and /perl/src will have the tar file of perl5.001m (or whatever).  So, it is
> similar to the ftp sites layouts.  In which case, I would definitely suggest
> /perl/ext as someone who sees ext knows that extensions are in there, the
> same as /perl/src/perl5.001m/ext contains the standard extensions.

exactly right: /perl/src/ is for bundled stuff.  i was putting unbundled 
stuff in /perl/ext/.

--tom

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Tue Aug 15 21:23:08 1995
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To: perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        steve.potter@amp.com
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!!
Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 22:23:08 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9508152220.aa27748@post.demon.co.uk>


> From: Stephen Potter <steve.potter@amp.com>
> 
> > >> This means
> > >> 
> > >>     /perl/src		- the 5.001m source, and maybe non Unix stuff?
> > >>     /perl/ext		- unbundled modules (curses, cgi, tk, etc)
> > >>     /perl/docs	- faq, metafaq, modules list, etc?
> > >>     /perl/slides	- my beginning perl course, plus the gui perl bits
> > >> 
> > >> What I'd like your help in is the ext/ directory in particular,
> > >
> > >Umm, /perl/ext or /perl/mod or both?
> > 
> > I would go with Tim on this-- assuming that /perl/src is the same tree that
> > untars from any perl5.001?.tar, then it has a directory under it called ext,
> > right? Why confuse the issue with a similar directory one level higher? I 
> > would even go as far as calling it /perl/modules.
> 
> Uh, if I understand the original question correctly, this is for a CD layout,
> and /perl/src will have the tar file of perl5.001m (or whatever).  So, it is
> similar to the ftp sites layouts.  In which case, I would definitely suggest
> /perl/ext as someone who sees ext knows that extensions are in there, the
> same as /perl/src/perl5.001m/ext contains the standard extensions.
> 
My concern was that not all modules are extensions so the name ext was
misleading.

A secondary issue is whether to split out extensions from other modules.

My personal preference is for a /perl/modules directory containing both
pure .pm modules and extensions.

> -spp
>
Tim. 

From channui@austin.ibm.com Wed Aug 16 04:24:36 1995
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Date: Tue, 15 Aug 1995 23:24:36 -0500 (CDT)
From: "Christopher C. Chan-Nui" <channui@austin.ibm.com>
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>, Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com
Subject: Re: CD ROM Requests!!
In-Reply-To: <9508151804.aa02924@post.demon.co.uk>
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On Tue, 15 Aug 1995, Tim Bunce wrote:
> [...]
> I think the CPAN beta at
> 
> 	ftp.funet.fi:/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/
> 
> has all its mirrors (11) running so should have just about everything.
> [...]

We've just started mirroring the CPAN site in the US at:
    ftp://janus.sedl.org/pub/mirrors/CPAN

198.213.9.194 if name service is down.

---
Christopher Chan-Nui    | Always keep a record of data.
channui@austin.ibm.com  | It indicates you've been working.
#include <disclaimer.h> | 

From Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com Wed Aug 16 06:33:53 1995
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To: john@wpi.edu
To: wjm@metronet.com
Cc: tchrist@mox.perl.com
Cc: ptk@wpi.edu
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Tk-b8.tar.gz - Now available

I have up-loaded Tk-b8.tar.gz to : 

ftp://ftp.wpi.edu/perl5/Incoming/Tk-b8.tar.gz

and 

ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/incoming/Tk-b8.tar.gz

Changes in b8

* Adjusted handling of 'const' in pTk C code.

* Changed delegation to really define AUTOLOADed delegate 
  function avoids horrible overhead on each call.

* Corrected Steve's long standing issue with inserting selection
  with <2>. 

* Fixed all the 'use Pretty' problems.

* Merged tk4.0p1 patches

* Added explicit Tk::focus in places to allow tab traversal etc.
  of canvases which have their own focus method.

* Added Optionmenu.pm

* Divided Text bindings into two parts - one appropriate
  for read-only Texts - to make it easier to derived HTML
  stuff from Text.

* Added ability to specify X11 location as
  perl Makefile.PL X11=/path/to/X

* Other things I have forgotten.


From wjm  Wed Aug 16 08:18:04 1995
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From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 1995 08:17:53 -0500
In-Reply-To: Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com
       "Tk-b8.tar.gz - Now available" (Aug 16, 12:34pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com
Subject: Re: Tk-b8.tar.gz - Now available
Cc: ptk@wpi.edu, perl-packrats

ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/perl5/extensions/Tk-b8.tar.gz

with a copy of your letter saved as Tk-b8.announce

Bill

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Thu Aug 17 03:02:03 1995
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To: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Cc: The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@nicoh.com>
Subject: perl
Date: Wed, 16 Aug 95 21:02:03 MDT
Message-Id: <2142.808628523@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

in 

    ftp://mox.perl.com/pub/perl/doc/PerlDoc-5.001.ps.gz

you will fine the result of this command:

groff -man -rC1 -rD1 perl.man perldata.man perlsyn.man perlop.man
    perlre.man perlrun.man perlfunc.man perlvar.man perlsub.man perlmod.man
    perlref.man perlobj.man perlbot.man perldebug.man perldiag.man
    perlform.man perlipc.man perlsec.man perltrap.man perlstyle.man
    perlapi.man perlguts.man perlcall.man perlembed.man perlovl.man
    perlbook.man perlpod.man modpods/integer.man modpods/less.man
    modpods/sigtrap.man modpods/strict.man modpods/subs.man modpods/Abbrev.man
    modpods/AnyDBMFile.man modpods/AutoLoader.man modpods/AutoSplit.man
    modpods/Basename.man modpods/Benchmark.man modpods/Carp.man
    modpods/CheckTree.man modpods/Collate.man modpods/Config.man
    modpods/Cwd.man modpods/DB_File.man modpods/Dynaloader.man
    modpods/English.man modpods/Env.man modpods/Exporter.man modpods/Fcntl.man
    modpods/FileHandle.man modpods/Find.man modpods/Finddepth.man
    modpods/GetOptions.man modpods/Getopt.man modpods/MakeMaker.man
    modpods/Open2.man modpods/Open3.man modpods/POSIX.man modpods/Ping.man
    modpods/Socket.man

you can run it yourself, or fetch mine.

i notice MakeMaker's 'make install' still doesn't do this:

    pod2man random_module.pm > random_module.3pm

--tom

From wjm  Thu Aug 17 08:09:18 1995
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From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 08:08:53 -0500
In-Reply-To: Ilya Zakharevich <ilya@math.ohio-state.edu>
       "Re: Term::ReadLine" (Aug 17,  5:02am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Ilya Zakharevich <ilya@math.ohio-state.edu>
Subject: Re: Term::ReadLine
Cc: tchrist@perl.com, perl-packrats

ExtUtils-Peek-0.3.tar.Z  
Term-ReadLine-0.7.tar.Z  
perl5db-kit-0.7.tar.gz
MathPari_a3.tar.gz       
Text-Trie-0.2.tar.Z
Term-Gnuplot-0.2.tar.Z   
cperl-mode.el

All now in /pub/perl/perl5/extensions.

Aak, I'm about to go into one of my organize modes for that dir.
Should each extension have it's own dir beneath extensions?  Or
should it be Net, Term, Tk, Math, etc?

I finally bought into the single extensions directory, to try
to conform to what most others were doing, but that's getting
really cluttered.  I'm not sure that having modules and extensions
will be much better.  I prefer to have everything under one dir,
with some additional heirarchy beneath it.


Bill

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Thu Aug 17 09:22:02 1995
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To: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: perl
Cc: perl5-porters@nicoh.com
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 10:22:02 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9508171315.ab24890@post.demon.co.uk>


> From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
> 
> in 
>     ftp://mox.perl.com/pub/perl/doc/PerlDoc-5.001.ps.gz
> 
> you will fine the result of this command:
> 
> groff -man -rC1 -rD1 perl.man perldata.man perlsyn.man perlop.man
>     perlre.man perlrun.man perlfunc.man perlvar.man perlsub.man perlmod.man
>     perlref.man perlobj.man perlbot.man perldebug.man perldiag.man
>     perlform.man perlipc.man perlsec.man perltrap.man perlstyle.man
>     perlapi.man perlguts.man perlcall.man perlembed.man perlovl.man
>     perlbook.man perlpod.man modpods/integer.man modpods/less.man
>     modpods/sigtrap.man modpods/strict.man modpods/subs.man modpods/Abbrev.man
>     modpods/AnyDBMFile.man modpods/AutoLoader.man modpods/AutoSplit.man
>     modpods/Basename.man modpods/Benchmark.man modpods/Carp.man
>     modpods/CheckTree.man modpods/Collate.man modpods/Config.man
>     modpods/Cwd.man modpods/DB_File.man modpods/Dynaloader.man
>     modpods/English.man modpods/Env.man modpods/Exporter.man modpods/Fcntl.man
>     modpods/FileHandle.man modpods/Find.man modpods/Finddepth.man
>     modpods/GetOptions.man modpods/Getopt.man modpods/MakeMaker.man
>     modpods/Open2.man modpods/Open3.man modpods/POSIX.man modpods/Ping.man
>     modpods/Socket.man
> 
> you can run it yourself, or fetch mine.
> 
How many pages is it Tom ?

I think it would be worth letting people know before they spool it to
their printers without checking and get a nasty surprise :-)

Tim.

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Thu Aug 17 13:14:19 1995
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To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com, perl5-porters@nicoh.com,
        tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: perl 
In-Reply-To: Tim Bunce's message <9508171315.ab24890@post.demon.co.uk> of Thu, 17 Aug 95 10:22:02 BST.
References: <9508171315.ab24890@post.demon.co.uk> 
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 07:14:19 MDT
Message-Id: <1347.808665259@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

> How many pages is it Tom ?

> I think it would be worth letting people know before they spool it to
> their printers without checking and get a nasty surprise :-)

207

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Thu Aug 17 13:17:29 1995
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To: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Cc: Ilya Zakharevich <ilya@math.ohio-state.edu>, tchrist@perl.com,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Term::ReadLine 
In-Reply-To: Bill Middleton's message <199508171308.AA17061@metronet.com> of Thu, 17 Aug 95 08:08:53 CDT.
References: <199508171308.AA17061@metronet.com> 
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 07:17:29 MDT
Message-Id: <1452.808665449@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

Here's what I currently have.  Notice I've started with some structure,
but really don'e have a good answer yet.

--tom

total 1356
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      4282 Jul 26 21:46 ANNOUNCE-funet
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1669 Apr 15 17:12 AddINC-1.0.tar.gz
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 16 19:00 CGI/
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5967 Jun 18 11:11 CGI.announcement
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     26935 Aug 15 17:01 Curses-a8.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1387 Apr 15 17:53 DBperl.README.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1608 Apr 15 17:21 DES.announce
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6497 Apr 15 17:11 DProf.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6505 Apr 15 17:12 Date-GetDate-0.01a.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1672 Apr 24 19:36 DumpStack-1.0.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6447 Apr 21 12:19 Dumper.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     18127 Apr 15 17:12 EventDrivenServer-1.2.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6188 May 15 21:00 ExtUtils-Peek-0.3.tar.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     52275 Jul 13 13:11 GD-0.26.tar.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     35781 Jul 13 13:11 GD.html
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5313 Apr 15 17:12 GL-0.2.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     26424 Apr  9 16:02 GetDate.shar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5182 Apr 15 17:12 InitializeServer-1.0.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5398 Apr 15 17:32 MD5.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11429 Apr 15 17:12 Mail-RFC822-0.02a.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     13000 Apr 15 17:12 MathPari_a3.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11584 Apr 15 17:22 MsqlPerl5-a1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     30126 Jun  4 10:47 NNTPClient-0.17
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6530 May 23 12:59 Net-FTP-1.01a.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     36261 Apr 15 17:12 Net-ext-a5.tar.gz
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 17 00:58 News/
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      7611 Apr 15 17:12 Prolog-alpha.tar.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 tchrist     15339 Aug 15 13:05 Ptty-0.01.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       694 Dec  5  1994 README.Des
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2297 May 19 00:59 README.GD
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3151 Jun 19 17:30 README.Safe
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist    483639 Aug 16 07:50 SNMP-1.3.tgz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     15045 Jun 19 17:30 Safe-a2.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6415 Aug 15 16:37 SelfLoader.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      4212 Apr 15 17:12 Socket-5.001d.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3366 Apr 15 17:41 StatsBasic.pm.announce
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     87191 Apr 15 17:23 Sx-1.6.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     96584 Aug 15 13:11 Sx-2.0-Beta.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     26245 Aug 15 16:37 Symdump-1.19.shar
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 16 17:38 TCL/
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 17 07:13 TK/
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      7612 May 15 21:11 Term-Gnuplot-0.2.tar.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     36701 Aug 17 08:01 Term-ReadLine-0.7.tar.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     41848 Aug 15 12:49 TermReadKey-1.99.tar.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2853 May 15 21:38 Text-Trie-0.2.tar.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11102 Apr 15 17:12 Usage-beta.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     16272 Oct 17  1994 cursperl5a6.tar.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist     12965 Aug 15 12:52 diagnostics.pm*
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      9431 Apr 21 12:20 menu.pl.v3.1.announce
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     19962 Aug 16 18:57 modules.list.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     12314 Aug 17 08:01 perl5db-kit-0.7.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     92937 Aug 15 17:09 perlmenu.v3.2.tar.Z

CGI:
total 264
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     42010 Aug 14 08:40 CGI-modules.2.4.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5967 Jun 18 11:11 CGI.announcement
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     50278 Aug  8 19:37 CGI.pm.1.53
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1194 Aug 16 13:02 ErrorWrap.pm
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist      5509 Aug 16 19:00 cgi-faq.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      4550 Aug 16 12:21 cgi-lib.pl
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     41637 Jul  7 14:47 cgi_docs.html
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     75314 Aug 15 20:10 cgi_docs.ps
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3500 Aug 15 12:53 cgi_handlers.pl
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     34111 Aug 16 17:31 weblint-1.011.tar.gz

News:
total 48
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     18637 May 17 00:58 NNTPClient.3
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     28867 May 17 00:57 NNTPClient.pm

TCL:
total 51
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1618 Jun  6 11:53 README.Tcl
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1304 Jun  6 13:04 README.TclTk
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         5 Aug 16 17:38 TK -> ../TK/
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     14950 Jun  6 11:41 Tcl-b1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     18561 Dec  5  1994 Tcl-perl-a2.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11499 Jun  6 13:01 TclTk-b1.tar.gz

TK:
total 1899
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         6 Aug 16 17:38 TCL -> ../TCL/
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist   1924574 Aug 16 06:26 Tk-b8.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2636 Jul  1 14:21 Tk-composite-widgets.doc
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6186 Apr 28 06:28 Tkperldb-a1.tar.gz

From kris@bionmr1.rug.ac.be Thu Aug 17 13:22:24 1995
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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 15:22:24 +0200 (MDT)
From: Kris Boulez <kris@bionmr1.rug.ac.be>
Subject: Re: perl
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com,
        perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com
In-Reply-To: <9508171315.ab24890@post.demon.co.uk>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 17 Aug 1995, Tim Bunce wrote:

> 
> > From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
> > 
> > in 
> >     ftp://mox.perl.com/pub/perl/doc/PerlDoc-5.001.ps.gz
> > 
> > you will fine the result of this command:
> > 
> > groff -man -rC1 -rD1 perl.man perldata.man perlsyn.man perlop.man
[ ... ]

> > 
> How many pages is it Tom ?
> 
> I think it would be worth letting people know before they spool it to
> their printers without checking and get a nasty surprise :-)
> 
Is this mirrored somewhere in Europe ? Our access to mox.perl.com is 
really sloooooooow.

Kris,
----
Kris Boulez		(Kris.Boulez@rug.ac.be)
Biomolecular NMR unit	<http://bionmr1.rug.ac.be/~kris>
University of Ghent, Belgium

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Thu Aug 17 13:34:13 1995
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To: Kris Boulez <kris@bionmr1.rug.ac.be>
Cc: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com,
        tchrist@mox.perl.com, perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com,
        tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: perl 
In-Reply-To: Kris Boulez's message <Pine.3.89.9508171557.A7459-0100000@bionmr1.rug.ac.be> of Thu, 17 Aug 95 15:22:24 +0200.
References: <Pine.3.89.9508171557.A7459-0100000@bionmr1.rug.ac.be> 
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 95 07:34:13 MDT
Message-Id: <1968.808666453@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

> > How many pages is it Tom ?
> > 
> > I think it would be worth letting people know before they spool it to
> > their printers without checking and get a nasty surprise :-)
> > 
> Is this mirrored somewhere in Europe ? Our access to mox.perl.com is 
> really sloooooooow.

In Europe, I'd suspect you'd want to rerun the original groff command.
That way you can get it to print properly for A4 paper.  Hmm.. actually,
it's nicer to print it on A5 so it's book sized.

--tom

From k@anna.mind.de Thu Aug 17 14:40:26 1995
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	 id QAA27375; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:40:26 +0200
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:40:26 +0200
Message-Id: <199508171440.QAA27375@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: tchrist@mox.perl.com
Cc: wjm@metronet.com, ilya@math.ohio-state.edu, tchrist@perl.com,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
In-Reply-To: <1452.808665449@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Thu, 17
	Aug 95 07:17:29 MDT)
Subject: Re: Term::ReadLine
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

  >
  >Here's what I currently have.  Notice I've started with some structure,
  >but really don'e have a good answer yet.


Work on my second attempt towards a database solution for the future
of the modules is going on quite well. Expect something RSN. I hope
people will like it, and it will work. Once it does work, we can move
the database to Frederic's better connected site, but in the beginning
I want to have it closer to my home.

The concept, to repeat myself, is that everybody on Tim's module-list
and other people too get upload capabilities to the modulelistserver
(franz). Frederic will mirror the server every hour and the rest of
the world will mirror from Frederic.

The directory structure I wanted to use to implement this approach is
DEEEP. Exactly as deep as the modulelist. Every supplier of any
software owns one directory per module. She may put into this
directory as much as she pleases (ok, let's say up to some limit). She
may delete old stuff also.

Sometimes it doesn't make sense to fill up all directories somebody
owns. Look at Jack Shirazi. He will not be pleased when we want him to
put something into each of those directories. That is why I say "own"
in the real sense of property. Jack may decide to keep 25 out of 33
directories empty if he thinks this is useful. I don't want him to
create directories, but that's a different story. Nobody except Jack
and me (or the admin of the server) will notice an empty directory.

People who have no place on the module list should be thrown together
in a Misc directory and maybe get directories on a username basis. As
soon as there is some structure to see, we can always change Misc to
the better.


andreas


From k@anna.mind.de Thu Aug 17 14:59:38 1995
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	 id QAA27402; Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:59:38 +0200
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:59:38 +0200
Message-Id: <199508171459.QAA27402@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9508151803.ab02785@post.demon.co.uk> (message from Tim Bunce on
	Tue, 15 Aug 1995 17:45:15 +0100)
Subject: Re: homeless modules
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

  >From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.
 
  [...on the relation between database and modulelist...]

  >I'd view convergence as a medium to long term goal.
  >
  >My strategy would be to parse the Module List into a simple ascii
  >'database' and write some code to build new Module Lists from that
  >database. That would actually simplify my maintenance of the list.

Short term possible. One thing we need either changed or an extra
field in the database is the sorting order within chapters:


  File::
  ::Path         Supf  File path and name utilities
  ::Basename     Supf  Return basename of a filename
  ::CheckTree    Supf  Check file/dir tree against a specification
  ::Find         Supf  Call func for every item in a directory tree
  ::Lock         adcf  File locking using flock() and lockf()       JHI
  ::KGlob        cdcf  Filename globing (ksh style)                 TYEMQ
  ::Attrib       idpO  Get/set file attributes (stat)               TYEMQ
  ::CounterFile  Rdp0  Persistent counter class                     GAAS  +


would have to be sorted alphabetically. Is that ok? Then I would have
to ask you for a BIG favor: sort the entries before the next posting
of the ML. That will help me definitely.

I can do that for you, if you send the current status to me and keep
still for a few minutes!!!

But if you want the current order preserved, this is also an option,
but it is harder to maintain.


andreas



From k@anna.mind.de Thu Aug 17 17:18:08 1995
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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 19:18:08 +0200
Message-Id: <199508171718.TAA27607@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9508171708.ac09061@post.demon.co.uk> (message from Tim Bunce on
	Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:54:08 +0100)
Subject: Re: homeless modules
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

  >Maybe I'm being difficult but I want to be able to reproduce the
  >Module List in its current format (including ordering and inter-line
  >spacing).

=pragma arrrrRRRRGHHHHhhhhhhh

maybe, maybe, maybe

=cut


Ok, you asked for it :)

  >Tim. 
  >

andreas


From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Thu Aug 17 15:54:08 1995
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          Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:54:08 +0100
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: homeless modules
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:54:08 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
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> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
>   >From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.
>  
>   [...on the relation between database and modulelist...]
> 
>   >I'd view convergence as a medium to long term goal.
>   >
>   >My strategy would be to parse the Module List into a simple ascii
>   >'database' and write some code to build new Module Lists from that
>   >database. That would actually simplify my maintenance of the list.
> 
> Short term possible. One thing we need either changed or an extra
> field in the database is the sorting order within chapters:
> 
>   File::
>   ::Path         Supf  File path and name utilities
>   ::Basename     Supf  Return basename of a filename
>   ::CheckTree    Supf  Check file/dir tree against a specification
>   ::Find         Supf  Call func for every item in a directory tree
>   ::Lock         adcf  File locking using flock() and lockf()       JHI
>   ::KGlob        cdcf  Filename globing (ksh style)                 TYEMQ
>   ::Attrib       idpO  Get/set file attributes (stat)               TYEMQ
>   ::CounterFile  Rdp0  Persistent counter class                     GAAS  +
> 
> 
> would have to be sorted alphabetically. Is that ok? Then I would have
> to ask you for a BIG favor: sort the entries before the next posting
> of the ML. That will help me definitely.
> 
> I can do that for you, if you send the current status to me and keep
> still for a few minutes!!!
> 
> But if you want the current order preserved, this is also an option,
> but it is harder to maintain.
> 
Maybe I'm being difficult but I want to be able to reproduce the
Module List in its current format (including ordering and inter-line
spacing).
 
> andreas
> 
Tim. 

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Thu Aug 17 15:59:19 1995
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To: wjm@metronet.com
Subject: Re: Term::ReadLine
Cc: tchrist@perl.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 16:59:19 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9508171708.ad09061@post.demon.co.uk>


> From: Bill Middleton <wjm@metronet.com>
> 
> ExtUtils-Peek-0.3.tar.Z  
> Term-ReadLine-0.7.tar.Z  
> perl5db-kit-0.7.tar.gz
> MathPari_a3.tar.gz       
> Text-Trie-0.2.tar.Z
> Term-Gnuplot-0.2.tar.Z   
> cperl-mode.el
> 
> All now in /pub/perl/perl5/extensions.
> 
> Aak, I'm about to go into one of my organize modes for that dir.
> Should each extension have it's own dir beneath extensions?  Or
> should it be Net, Term, Tk, Math, etc?
> 
It should _at least_ be nested in line with the name of the module.

Adding a further directory-per-module I'm not fussed about.

Putting the 'top-level' modules into a separate directory might
help to reduce clutter (there are far too many top-level modules).

> I finally bought into the single extensions directory, to try
> to conform to what most others were doing, but that's getting
> really cluttered.  I'm not sure that having modules and extensions
> will be much better.  I prefer to have everything under one dir,
> with some additional heirarchy beneath it.
> 
Agreed. Distinguishing 'modules' from extensions is problematic
and adds little value. They're all modules, the implementation is
irrelevant here.

> Bill
>
Tim. 

From kjahds@kjahds.com Thu Aug 17 18:42:29 1995
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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 14:42:29 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: tchrist@mox.perl.com, wjm@metronet.com, ilya@math.ohio-state.edu,
        tchrist@perl.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: Term::ReadLine
In-Reply-To: <199508171440.QAA27375@anna.mind.de>
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Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Thu, 17 Aug 1995, Andreas Koenig wrote:

> The concept, to repeat myself, is that everybody on Tim's module-list
> and other people too get upload capabilities to the modulelistserver
> (franz). Frederic will mirror the server every hour and the rest of
> the world will mirror from Frederic.

Thank you. This should be a great help.

> The directory structure I wanted to use to implement this approach is
> DEEEP. Exactly as deep as the modulelist. Every supplier of any
> software owns one directory per module. She may put into this
> directory as much as she pleases (ok, let's say up to some limit). She
> may delete old stuff also.

I'd suggest some stand naming schemes: A "details" file could give 
details on that module directory, etc.

Some mechanism for changing the module list (and thus the directory
structure) would be a big help, as well. A semi-automated mail server,
perhaps. 

> Sometimes it doesn't make sense to fill up all directories somebody
> owns. Look at Jack Shirazi. He will not be pleased when we want him to
> put something into each of those directories. That is why I say "own"
> in the real sense of property. Jack may decide to keep 25 out of 33
> directories empty if he thinks this is useful. I don't want him to
> create directories, but that's a different story. Nobody except Jack
> and me (or the admin of the server) will notice an empty directory.

Not quite sure what you mean here, but I should point out symbolic and/or
hard links. These seems to be a possible solution to the
username/modulename distinction. 

> People who have no place on the module list should be thrown together
> in a Misc directory and maybe get directories on a username basis. As
> soon as there is some structure to see, we can always change Misc to
> the better.

Username directory seem to make sense in general.

> andreas

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From kjahds@kjahds.com Thu Aug 17 18:44:55 1995
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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 14:44:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: homeless modules
In-Reply-To: <199508171718.TAA27607@anna.mind.de>
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On Thu, 17 Aug 1995, Andreas Koenig wrote:

>   >Maybe I'm being difficult but I want to be able to reproduce the
>   >Module List in its current format (including ordering and inter-line
>   >spacing).
> 
> =pragma arrrrRRRRGHHHHhhhhhhh
> 
> maybe, maybe, maybe
> 
> =cut
> 
> 
> Ok, you asked for it :)

Don't you _dare_ try and shoehorn tables into POD! ;-)

>   >Tim. 
>   >
> 
> andreas

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From k@anna.mind.de Thu Aug 17 21:44:28 1995
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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 23:44:28 +0200
Message-Id: <199508172144.XAA27905@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: kjahds@kjahds.com, Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, wjm@metronet.com,
        tchrist@mox.perl.com
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950817143928.542B-100000@kjahds.com> (message from
	Kenneth Albanowski on Thu, 17 Aug 1995 14:42:29 -0400 (EDT))
Subject: Re: Term::ReadLine
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

  >From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
  >
  >Username directory seem to make sense in general.

!!!! light bulb on !!!!

  >From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
  >
  >> From: Bill Middleton <wjm@metronet.com>
  >> 
  >> Aak, I'm about to go into one of my organize modes for that dir.
  >> Should each extension have it's own dir beneath extensions?  Or
  >> should it be Net, Term, Tk, Math, etc?
  >> 
  >It should _at least_ be nested in line with the name of the module.
  >
  >Adding a further directory-per-module I'm not fussed about.
  >
  >Putting the 'top-level' modules into a separate directory might
  >help to reduce clutter (there are far too many top-level modules).
  >

You know what? Tree design is 90% psychology :)

And I find myself not writing one line of code just to avoid another
mess.

Do_What_I_Want+::
::Find_What_I_Need
::Make_It_Simple
::Get_More_Out_Of_It

::Find_What_I_Need
    has little to do with the tree design. People should consult the
    modulelist to find the things they need. Or alternate lists,
    hyperlists most probably.

::Make_It_Simple
    it's hard enough to learn which modules exist. It's quite nice to
    identify them with real humans. It's hardly possible to skip the
    first step. I think people go voluntarily through step 2: it's
    quite common that one knows who wrote some software that is in
    everyday use. It's similar to a trademark.  We don't want a third
    thing to learn. The tree should either be an author tree or a
    module tree.

::Get_More_Out_Of_It
    Whichever of the two will be realized, the other one is always
    easy to have, either with physical links or with some hypermedia
    stuff. So it really does not matter much which one we choose. The 
    author tree is of course easier to implement as a basis.
    


My internal voting meter currently is 77:23 in favor of the author's tree.

the means we have

root/
     AMOSS/
     AMW/
     BBUM/
     BPETH/
     CBAIL/
     DFD/
     DMO/
     DMR/



Please vote asap, good night,
andreas


From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Thu Aug 17 22:12:50 1995
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To: kjahds@kjahds.com, wjm@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com,
        andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: Term::ReadLine
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 23:12:50 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9508172326.ae13501@post.demon.co.uk>


> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
> You know what? Tree design is 90% psychology :)
> My internal voting meter currently is 77:23 in favor of the author's tree.
> the means we have
> 
> root/
>      AMOSS/
>      AMW/
>      BBUM/
>      BPETH/
>      CBAIL/
>      DFD/
>      DMO/
>      DMR/
>
An author tree might be handy but who can put names to the ones you've
listed without looking them up?

If you want to talk about trees, how about a Module List Category tree:

2)   Perl Core Modules, Perl Language Extensions and Documentation Tools
3)   Development Support
4)   Operating System Interfaces
5)   Networking, Device Control (modems) and InterProcess Communication
6)   Data Types and Data Type Utilities
7)   Database Interfaces
8)   User Interfaces
9)   Interfaces to / Emulations of Other Programming Languages
10)  File Names, File Systems, File Locking and File Handles
11)  Text Processing, Parsing and Searching
12)  Option, Argument, Parameter and Configuration File Processing
13)  Internationalization and Locale
14)  Security and Encryption
15)  World Wide Web, HTML, HTTP, CGI, MIME
16)  Server and Daemon Utilities
17)  Archiving and Compression
18)  Image, Pixmap and Bitmap Manipulation, Drawing and Graphing
19)  Mail and Usenet News
20)  Miscellaneous Modules

Personally I think a library-like tree (eg module names) is the top priority
and other trees as handy but secondary.

> Please vote asap, good night,
> andreas
> 
Tim.

From kjahds@kjahds.com Thu Aug 17 22:15:44 1995
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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 18:15:44 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, wjm@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: Term::ReadLine
In-Reply-To: <199508172144.XAA27905@anna.mind.de>
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On Thu, 17 Aug 1995, Andreas Koenig wrote:

> My internal voting meter currently is 77:23 in favor of the author's tree.
> 
> the means we have
> 
> root/
>      AMOSS/
>      AMW/
>      BBUM/
>      BPETH/
>      CBAIL/
>      DFD/
>      DMO/
>      DMR/
> 
> 
> 
> Please vote asap, good night,

I think an author tree is a good idea, especially as automatically
generating a symlinked module tree from the author tree and the module
list should be quite simple. 

> andreas

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From tchrist@mox.perl.com Thu Aug 17 23:20:03 1995
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Date: Thu, 17 Aug 1995 17:20:03 -0600
Message-Id: <199508172320.RAA18011@mox.perl.com>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc
Subject: Re: Printing the TeX version of perl5 documentation
References: <40vs02$7u@bigwheel.eng.sc.rolm.com>
Reply-To: tchrist@mox.perl.com (Tom Christiansen)
Organization: Perl Consulting and Training

In comp.lang.perl.misc, dougv@clipper.robadome.com (D. Douglas Valkenaar) writes:
:
:Is there another place to get printed perl5 documentation?

It's a very slow connect, but...

    ftp://ftp.perl.com/pub/perl/doc/PerlDoc-5.001m.ps.gz
	    5.001m man pages

    ftp://ftp.perl.com/pub/perl/doc/PerlDoc-Cover.ps.gz
	    5.001m doc cover

    ftp://ftp.perl.com/pub/perl/doc/perlref-5.0.tar.gz
	    5.000  quick reference guide

You can probably get it from a faster source in a day or so
if it's not already there.

-tom
-- 
Tom Christiansen      Perl Consultant, Gamer, Hiker      tchrist@mox.perl.com
There are still some other things to do, so don't think if I didn't fix
your favorite bug that your bug report is in the bit bucket.  (It may be,
but don't think it.  :-)  Larry Wall in <7238@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV>

From k@anna.mind.de Fri Aug 18 06:00:27 1995
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 08:00:27 +0200
Message-Id: <199508180600.IAA28207@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: kjahds@kjahds.com, wjm@metronet.com, Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950817143928.542B-100000@kjahds.com> (message from
	Kenneth Albanowski on Thu, 17 Aug 1995 14:42:29 -0400 (EDT))
Subject: Re: Term::ReadLine
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

Thanks for your immediate responses, Good morning!

The authors' directory is a Good Thing. Assorted annotations follow.


  >From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>

  >I'd suggest some stand naming schemes: A "details" file could give 
  >details on that module directory, etc.

I think it's an established convention to have a

    MailTools-1.02a.README

when there is a README in

    MailTools-1.02a.tar.gz

I think I could unwrap them automatically.

  >Some mechanism for changing the module list (and thus the directory
  >structure) would be a big help, as well. A semi-automated mail server,
  >perhaps. 

Adding a file to the incoming directory is a PUT in ftp. I'm not sure,
if we have a put-capable perl script. But I'm confident, we will have soon.

Adding a link information to the database is a POST in http. lwp comes
with a POST script.

I'm not acquainted with mailagent, so I hesitate to have a mail
option, too. We'll see how many people request it.


    Also from Kenneth:
    > Don't you _dare_ try and shoehorn tables into POD! ;-)

Funny, the way I found my way to perl was the need to write thousands
of tables for economic research projects (I was an economist by that
time). Table creation still has a big potential to put a chill on me:)

    From Tim:
    > An author tree might be handy but who can put names to the 
    > ones you've listed without looking them up?

Either I give people the right to pick a name and the database is
responsible for uniqueness or only you and me can christen somebody :)
We can lock each other with the help of the database or if you prefer
on a primitiv method (e.g. we devide the namespace somehow or I only
baptize on Saturdays, something like this). Long term solution should
be a database-only approach.

The problem is really tree-independent. The project is based on the
existence of unique usernames, whichever tree we implement.

    Also from Tim:
    > Personally I think a library-like tree (eg module names) is the
    > top priority and other trees as handy but secondary.

It's a matter of Get_More_Out_Of_It. The author's tree is a matter of
Keep_It_Simple. The former can be implemented on the base of the
latter, It's more complicated the other way round. As Kenneth has
pointed out, symbolic links can be used to establish two or even N
trees. The database is there, it can be automated.

In fact, the database is not yet there, but I'm close. I will make
sure, at least the current modulelist will be reproducable before I
start.

Thanks again for your participation,
andreas



From tchrist@mox.perl.com Fri Aug 18 13:26:28 1995
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To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: kjahds@kjahds.com, wjm@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com,
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Subject: Re: Term::ReadLine 
In-Reply-To: Tim Bunce's message <9508172326.ae13501@post.demon.co.uk> of Thu, 17 Aug 95 23:12:50 BST.
References: <9508172326.ae13501@post.demon.co.uk> 
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 95 07:26:28 MDT
Message-Id: <1290.808752388@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

may we have both an author and a topic-area tree?

From simon@lia.di.epfl.ch Fri Aug 18 22:05:00 1995
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 95 16:05 MDT
From: Simon Leinen <simon@lia.di.epfl.ch>
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: CPAN addition

Jarkko,

  the initial CPAN looks excellent!

Here is an addition: the 'snmperl' package (currently in ext/snmp in
the CPAN) has been ported to Perl 5 and CMU SNMPv2.  You could mirror
it from ftp://smurfland.cit.buffalo.edu/pub/utils/SNMP/SNMPerl5.tgz

The contact address for this package is
snmpperl@smurfland.cit.buffalo.edu.

With kind regards,
-- 
Simon.

From kjahds@kjahds.com Fri Aug 18 13:57:03 1995
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 09:57:03 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Cc: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>, wjm@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com,
        andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Term::ReadLine 
In-Reply-To: <1290.808752388@mox>
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950818095528.1086A-100000@kjahds.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 18 Aug 1995, Tom Christiansen wrote:

> may we have both an author and a topic-area tree?

This could probably best be done by providing a set of keywords in the
module list for people to give to their modules "CGI, WWW, Terminal,
Network", etc., and then making a directory for each keyword and
symlinking in the appropriate modules. 

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From k@anna.mind.de Fri Aug 18 14:18:47 1995
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 16:18:47 +0200
Message-Id: <199508181418.QAA28902@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: tchrist@mox.perl.com
Cc: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, kjahds@kjahds.com, wjm@metronet.com,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <1290.808752388@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Fri, 18
	Aug 95 07:26:28 MDT)
Subject: Re: Term::ReadLine
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

  >From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
  >
  >may we have both an author and a topic-area tree?
  >

Yes.

My current view of the project tends to have one directory per user,
that is the author directory. And we have infinite modules per user.

A trivial program can go through the modules and create anything out
of the information we have. E.g. a symbolic link tree thusly:

/Math/BigInt	->	/MARCB
/Math/Complex	->	/DNAD
/Math/Pari	->	/ILYAZ
/Net/Dnet	->	/SPIDB
/Net/Gen	->	/SPIDB
/Net/Inet	->	/SPIDB
/Net/TCP	->	/SPIDB
/Net/UDP	->	/SPIDB
/RPC/ONC	->	/PKUTS
/Text/TeX	->	/ILYAZ
/Text/Trie	->	/ILYAZ
/ToolTalk	->	/MARCP


OK?

andreas

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Fri Aug 18 14:21:05 1995
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To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: tchrist@mox.perl.com, Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, kjahds@kjahds.com,
        wjm@metronet.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Term::ReadLine 
In-Reply-To: Andreas Koenig's message <199508181418.QAA28902@anna.mind.de> of Fri, 18 Aug 95 16:18:47 +0200.
References: <199508181418.QAA28902@anna.mind.de> 
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 95 08:21:05 MDT
Message-Id: <2532.808755665@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

>   >From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
>   >
>   >may we have both an author and a topic-area tree?
>   >

> Yes.

> My current view of the project tends to have one directory per user,
> that is the author directory. And we have infinite modules per user.

> A trivial program can go through the modules and create anything out
> of the information we have. E.g. a symbolic link tree thusly:

> /Math/BigInt	->	/MARCB
> /Math/Complex	->	/DNAD
> /Math/Pari	->	/ILYAZ
> /Net/Dnet	->	/SPIDB
> /Net/Gen	->	/SPIDB
> /Net/Inet	->	/SPIDB
> /Net/TCP	->	/SPIDB
> /Net/UDP	->	/SPIDB
> /RPC/ONC	->	/PKUTS
> /Text/TeX	->	/ILYAZ
> /Text/Trie	->	/ILYAZ
> /ToolTalk	->	/MARCP

> OK?

ok!

--tom

From k@anna.mind.de Fri Aug 18 14:31:24 1995
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 16:31:24 +0200
Message-Id: <199508181431.QAA28925@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: kjahds@kjahds.com
Cc: tchrist@mox.perl.com, Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, wjm@metronet.com,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950818095528.1086A-100000@kjahds.com> (message
	from Kenneth Albanowski on Fri, 18 Aug 1995 09:57:03 -0400 (EDT))
Subject: keywords
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

  >This could probably best be done by providing a set of keywords in the
  >module list for people to give to their modules "CGI, WWW, Terminal,
  >Network", etc., and then making a directory for each keyword and
  >symlinking in the appropriate modules. 

Talking about keywords!

No I don't want them in the database. Find_What_I_Need has little to
do with efficient distribution.

But of course I welcome activities that make it easy to add search
capabilities to software in general. The linux software map (LSM) is
one example for how it can be done. This is not perl specific and
should be agreed upon within a wider community.

andreas

From kjahds@kjahds.com Fri Aug 18 15:13:27 1995
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 11:13:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: tchrist@mox.perl.com, Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, wjm@metronet.com,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: keywords
In-Reply-To: <199508181431.QAA28925@anna.mind.de>
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950818111054.1617A-100000@kjahds.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 18 Aug 1995, Andreas Koenig wrote:

>   >This could probably best be done by providing a set of keywords in the
>   >module list for people to give to their modules "CGI, WWW, Terminal,
>   >Network", etc., and then making a directory for each keyword and
>   >symlinking in the appropriate modules. 
> 
> Talking about keywords!
> 
> No I don't want them in the database. Find_What_I_Need has little to
> do with efficient distribution.
> 
> But of course I welcome activities that make it easy to add search
> capabilities to software in general. The linux software map (LSM) is
> one example for how it can be done. This is not perl specific and
> should be agreed upon within a wider community.

OK, so how about a reccomended set of lines within the recommended README 
file within modules? Something like this:

 ----- TermReadKey-1.99.README -----

  Term::ReadKey 1.99 -- Copyright [...]

[...]

Keywords: terminals, single keys, one key, nonblocking, stty 

 ------ EOF ------


> andreas

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From k@anna.mind.de Fri Aug 18 15:47:19 1995
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 17:47:19 +0200
Message-Id: <199508181547.RAA29058@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: kjahds@kjahds.com
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, tchrist@mox.perl.com, Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk,
        wjm@metronet.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950818111054.1617A-100000@kjahds.com> (message
	from Kenneth Albanowski on Fri, 18 Aug 1995 11:13:27 -0400 (EDT))
Subject: Re: keywords
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

  >OK, so how about a reccomended set of lines within the recommended README 
  >file within modules? Something like this:
  >
  > ----- TermReadKey-1.99.README -----
  >
  >  Term::ReadKey 1.99 -- Copyright [...]
  >
  >[...]
  >
  >Keywords: terminals, single keys, one key, nonblocking, stty 
  >
  > ------ EOF ------

I like it in the README. Why not as header? Would tend to be ugly with
too many fields?

I don't have a single linux software map file here, but I recall, they
have entries of the form of mail headers. Valid field names were

Author, AuthorEmail, CheckedEmail, Comment, CopyPolicy, Description,
Entered, EnteredBy, File, Keywords, MaintEmail, Maintainer, Path,
Required, Site, Title, and Version.

I don't know, why they didn't want to use dashes, I would allow
dashes. And I would add X-Perl-Module-List-Username :)

Then the first empty line in the README could end the header. What a
terrific new invention :)


andreas

From kjahds@kjahds.com Fri Aug 18 15:48:39 1995
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 11:48:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, tchrist@mox.perl.com, Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk,
        wjm@metronet.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: keywords
In-Reply-To: <199508181547.RAA29058@anna.mind.de>
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950818114658.1746B-100000@kjahds.com>
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On Fri, 18 Aug 1995, Andreas Koenig wrote:

> I like it in the README. Why not as header? Would tend to be ugly with
> too many fields?

Detracts from it's use as a README. But not by much. Seems like a good idea.

> I don't have a single linux software map file here, but I recall, they
> have entries of the form of mail headers. Valid field names were
>
> Author, AuthorEmail, CheckedEmail, Comment, CopyPolicy, Description,
> Entered, EnteredBy, File, Keywords, MaintEmail, Maintainer, Path,
> Required, Site, Title, and Version.
> 
> I don't know, why they didn't want to use dashes, I would allow
> dashes. And I would add X-Perl-Module-List-Username :)
> 
> Then the first empty line in the README could end the header. What a
> terrific new invention :)

LSM entries are _only_ the fields, without additional data appended. (No 
body.) Here, I'll append a sample. As you can see, it's a bit of a 
combination of headers and a tagged file.

> andreas

Begin3
Title: SVGA textmode manipulation/enhancement
Version: 0.9
Entered-date: 6JUL95
Description: Uses extra features found in all SVGA video cards to enhance
             Linux text modes independently of what the BIOS can do. It is
             configured with an XF86Config-like file, and allows setting of
             pixel clock, H/V timings, font size, cursor size, etc. Enables
             using the video card AND the monitor to their full potential in
             textmode, as in XWindows. Current support includes S3, ET4000,
             Cirrus Logic, Trident, Western Digital, ATI (and MACH32) and
             Video7 (Headland techn.) cards. It can also use an external
             clock program and supports all S3 clock chips from XFREE 3.1.1.
             Features automatic font loading, monitor definition (H/V
             frequency limits), on-the-fly screen resizing.
             Also includes: palette changer, pixelclock probe, text/graphics
             mode grabber (for Linux and DOS), VGA register hacking tool,
             and a multi-chipset/clockchip ClockProg for X that supports ALL
             chipsets/clockchips from SVGATextMode.
Keywords: SVGA VGA console screen monitor XFREE Xconfig XF86Config
Author: kmg@barco.be (Koen Gadeyne)
Maintained-by: kmg@barco.be (Koen Gadeyne)
Primary-site: sunsite.unc.edu pub/Linux/utils/console
              310k SVGATextMode-0.9.tar.gz
Alternate-site: tsx-11.mit.edu pub/linux/sources/sbin
Original-site:
Platform: Linux machine (Intel or Alpha) with one of the supported VGA
          cards, kernel 1.1.54 or newer.
Copying-policy: Freely Redistributable
End

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Fri Aug 18 16:23:59 1995
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To: kjahds@kjahds.com, andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: keywords
Cc: tchrist@mox.perl.com, wjm@metronet.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 17:23:59 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9508181721.aa27087@post.demon.co.uk>


> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
> I don't have a single linux software map file here, but I recall, they
> have entries of the form of mail headers. Valid field names were
> 
> Author, AuthorEmail, CheckedEmail, Comment, CopyPolicy, Description,
> Entered, EnteredBy, File, Keywords, MaintEmail, Maintainer, Path,
> Required, Site, Title, and Version.
> 
> I don't know, why they didn't want to use dashes, I would allow
> dashes. And I would add X-Perl-Module-List-Username :)
> 
> Then the first empty line in the README could end the header.

I like this.

Doesn't Linux have related tools for processing software map file?

> What a terrific new invention :)
> 
:-)

> andreas
> 
Tim. 

From kjahds@kjahds.com Fri Aug 18 18:53:24 1995
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Date: Fri, 18 Aug 1995 14:53:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, tchrist@mox.perl.com, wjm@metronet.com,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: keywords
In-Reply-To: <9508181721.aa27087@post.demon.co.uk>
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950818145229.544A-100000@kjahds.com>
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On Fri, 18 Aug 1995, Tim Bunce wrote:

> 
> > From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> > 
> > I don't have a single linux software map file here, but I recall, they
> > have entries of the form of mail headers. Valid field names were
> > 
> > Author, AuthorEmail, CheckedEmail, Comment, CopyPolicy, Description,
> > Entered, EnteredBy, File, Keywords, MaintEmail, Maintainer, Path,
> > Required, Site, Title, and Version.
> > 
> > I don't know, why they didn't want to use dashes, I would allow
> > dashes. And I would add X-Perl-Module-List-Username :)
> > 
> > Then the first empty line in the README could end the header.
> 
> I like this.
> 
> Doesn't Linux have related tools for processing software map file?

I dunno. I'll take a look if I get a chance. Sunsite has links to LSM
browsers on it's Linux page. One using Harvest, the other -- something or
other. I don't know whether there are any other tools. 

> > What a terrific new invention :)
> > 
> :-)
> 
> > andreas
> > 
> Tim. 
> 

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From hofer@informatik.uni-muenchen.de Sat Aug 19 16:41:15 1995
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From: Robert Hofer <hofer@informatik.uni-muenchen.de>
Subject: Re: keywords
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 1995 18:41:15 +0200 (MESZ)
In-Reply-To: <199508181547.RAA29058@anna.mind.de> from "Andreas Koenig" at Aug 18, 95 05:47:19 pm
X-Mailer: ELM [version 2.4 PL23]
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Hi,

i wanted to send this mail one or two weeks later, but...

I think with the discussion about keywords and README's it's time to
inform you about our project. We are creating a new perl archive, called the
"Perl Oasis".

The main feature of the archive is a description file for each package.
I installed a http daemon for a prerelease of the archive. Take a look
at http://zeus.cip.informatik.uni-muenchen.de:8769/00-oasis.html.
User perl, password oasis. Please keep this secret. 

For a ftp like look, you can use 
http://zeus.cip.informatik.uni-muenchen.de:8769/

What parts of the archive we have already finished:
src/
ports/
parts of scripts/

You have direct access to the working area, so dont wonder about dead links.
The indices are created manully at this time, so ...
The ftp links point already to ftp.leo.org, but there is no "Perl Oasis" at
this time.

Here is our (we are a team of three) plan/project file:

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Todo:

  1. program: archive listings/indices, generate html/ascii descriptions [Ok]
  2. HTML page with the archive structure (+links) [Ok]
  3. last 50 or 150 uploads and uploads from last week [Ok]
  4. program: archive peek [Ok]
  5. MD5
  6. context sensitive help (context=part of archive)
  7. send a comment about archive (cgi)
  8. send a comment about a package (cgi) (a comment db for each package)
  9. fulltext/keyword search engine (cgi)
 10. document about the history of perl (based on the story in "Programming
     Perl")
 11. an interaktive formular about the perl purity test
 12. a www page with links to other perl related sources
 13. transfer the archive to leo.org

AND

... write descriptions for all packages. (one third is done)


Time plan

We want to go online after 15th of september. At this time we should have
descriptions for all packages at the newest version. You can access Perl Oasis
via ftp.leo.org or www.leo.org.


Mirror ?

Yes, you can mirror "Perl Oasis" WITH the HTML documents. We hacked a program
for converting all absolute URL's in the HTML documents.


And what's with CPAN ?

There are some differences between CPAN and "Perl Oasis".
We don't have every package, that CPAN has, in our archive.
We comment extensively every package.
We use an evolving archive structure (cross links).
We want to have more than an pure WWW interface of ftp functionality.
BUT we think there is a need for both concepts.
(...   we started with the "Perl Oasis" project on 1th of june)

And what's with Andreas.Koenig's modulelist/mirror concept ?

We dont mirror, we watch, automaticly. And we will watch the modulelist ftp
server. So you can get a new module version with nearly no time delay from the
right place in our archive.
AND
we think the concept from Andreas Koenig is neccessary, particularly for module
developers. Is there a possibility to mirror the modules and to create the
descriptions automaticly ?

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

You can find the actual version of our plan on the "home page" of "Perl Oasis".
Inside the plan document, there are links to the actual versions of our
description formats.

I will mail the package format after this mail.

Be happy dont worry,
Garfield

P.S.: Be gracious. Our english isn't the best, yet. But we work on it ;-)

From hofer@informatik.uni-muenchen.de Sat Aug 19 16:42:46 1995
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	(1.37.109.8/16.2) id AA09539; Sat, 19 Aug 1995 18:42:47 +0200
From: Robert Hofer <hofer@informatik.uni-muenchen.de>
Subject: description format
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 1995 18:42:46 +0200 (MESZ)
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Hi,

here's the description form for packages at the "Perl Oasis". We have used
this form a couple of weeks and it's stable now. I think it's not the best
format for the description part inside a README, but some ideas...

Be happy dont worry,
Garfield

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


                                  Form - dsc

        @Begin(Archive)
        @title                    =
        @path                     =
        @version                  =
        @developing-status        =
        @author                   =
        @maintainer               =
        @main-archive             =
        @class                    =
        @distribution-type        =
        @requirements:misc        =
        @requirements:perlversion =
        @copying-policy           =
        @modified:name            =
        @modified:reason          =
        @keywords                 =
        @description:short        =
        @description:readme       =
        @description:long         =
        @End(Archive)

Beschreibung

(o) ::= optional field

title
     Syntax:
          word list
     Informal:
          Informal description of the package
          One line ! It's used for indices and listings
          If you want more space, use description:short
path
     Syntax:
          path
     Informal:
          unix like path, relative to the archive root
          You can specify a group of files like:
          .../{hugo,anton,berta} .../hugo.*
version(o)
     Syntax:
          word list
     Informal:
          version(s) of the package
developing-status(o)
     Syntax:
          pre-alpha | alpha | beta | stable | ?
     Informal:
          developing stauts of the package
author(o)
     Syntax:
          name [<email>]
     Informal:
          name of the authors, one line for each author
maintainer(o)
     Syntax:
          name [<email>]
     Informal:
          name of the maintainers, one line for each maintainer
main-archive(o)
     Syntax: URL
     Informal:
          nearly standard URL syntax, like
          ftp://ftp.leo.org/pub/programming/languages/perl/foo/faa*
class(o)
     Syntax:
          library | script | extension | executable | unknown | document | ?
          [, class]*
     Informal:
          type of the package,
distribution-type
     Syntax:
          source | binary | postscript | ascii | diffs | unknown | image |
          patch | ?
          [, distribution-type]*
     Informal:
          type of data inside the package
requirements:misc(o)
     Syntax:
          word list
     Informal:
          misc. requirements (os, hardware, libs, other apps, etc.)
requirements:perlversion(o)
     Syntax:
          4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | -
     Informal:
          4 ::= only perl4 ... :-)
          - ::= perl4 and perl5
copying-policy
     Syntax:
          pd | gnu | artistic | copyleft | shareware | unknown | copyrighted |
          free use | educational free | ? [, copying-policy]*
     Informal:
          legal issues
modified:name(o)
     Syntax:
          name [<email>]
     Informal:
          The last one, who changed the package (like repacking, shar -> tar,
          etc)
modified:reason(o)
     Syntax:
          word list
keywords
     Syntax:
          word list
description:short(o)
     Syntax:
          word list
     Informal:
          extra info, mostly used in conjunction with title
description:readme(o)
     Syntax:
          path//path
     Informal:
          The first path is a path to an archive file of the package
          The second one is a path inside the archive to a readme file
          (tar,zip,lha, zoo,..)
     Is this a good idea ???
          We think yes. There are already two extra files for each package!
          Another aditional file for each package is too much for big
          directories. The user of the archive can use the description:long
          inside the form instead of the readme, or can fetch the readme via
          cgi. Keep it small and simple :-)
description:long(o)
     Syntax:
          word list
     Informal:
          Long description of the package
     Todo!
          We think about a special format for HTML code inside the text.

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Sat Aug 19 16:51:31 1995
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To: Stephen P Potter <spp@peach.epix.net>
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, cgi-perl@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: perl 
Date: Sat, 19 Aug 95 10:51:31 MDT
Message-Id: <28041.808851091@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

i've reorganized the CGI directory on perl.com .  because i didn't
know where to put it, it's in 

    /pub/CGI
    /pub/perl/CGI
    /pub/perl/ext/CGI

and looks like this:

811 .
  |  234 tools
  |    |      136 htmlcheck.tar.gz
  |    |       61 wwwstat-1.01.tar.Z
  |    |       34 weblint-1.011.tar.gz
  |    |        2 sumwww
  |    |        1 .
  |  173 lib-perl5
  |    |          50 CGI.pm.1.53
  |    |          43 URI
  |    |           |    42 URL.pm
  |    |           |     1 .
  |    |          42 CGI-modules.2.4.tar.gz
  |    |          29 HTML
  |    |           |     26 HTML_0.6.tar.gz
  |    |           |      2 Simple.pm
  |    |           |      1 .
  |    |           6 CGI.announcement
  |    |           2 ErrorWrap.pm
  |    |           1 .
  |  163 eg
  |    |   148 angelgrep
  |    |     |          91 rule-cards.txt.gz
  |    |     |          43 rule-general.txt.gz
  |    |     |           6 angelgrep.cgi
  |    |     |           4 angelgrep.html
  |    |     |           3 angelgrep.pl
  |    |     |           1 .
  |    |    14 picknewsgroups
  |    |     1 .
  |  142 docs
  |    |     74 cgi_docs.ps
  |    |     41 cgi_docs.html
  |    |     20 how-to-cgi.ps.gz
  |    |      6 cgi-faq.gz
  |    |      1 .
  |   98 lib-perl4
  |    |          88 libwww-perl-0.40.tar.gz
  |    |           5 cgi-lib.pl
  |    |           4 cgi_handlers.pl
  |    |           1 .
  |    1 .

--tom

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Sun Aug 20 14:11:59 1995
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To: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Cc: Larry Wall <lwall@scalpel.netlabs.com>, gsar@engin.umich.edu,
        ilya@math.ohio-state.edu, Nick.Ing-Simmons@tiuk.ti.com,
        doughera@lafcol.lafayette.edu
Subject: closure patch
Reply-To: tchrist@perl.com
Date: Sun, 20 Aug 95 08:11:59 MDT
Message-Id: <16788.808927919@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

Being frustrated with trying to debug closures in tk, i used put Gurusamy
Sarathy's consolidated patch to 5.001m in

    ftp://ftp.perl.com/pub/perl/src/closure-bug.patch

--tom

From k@anna.mind.de Mon Aug 21 01:00:13 1995
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	 id DAA03072; Mon, 21 Aug 1995 03:00:13 +0200
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 03:00:13 +0200
Message-Id: <199508210100.DAA03072@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Module List Server
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

Before I go to bed, I thought, I should let you know, what has been
achieved over the weekend.

Good:

- we have a new magic word:
  ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/CPAN/pml/byauthor (Thanks to Fredic
  Chauveau, see below)

- The database is in synch with the module list

- lwp is doing the collecting

- msql keeps track of what's going on

- wu-ftp is ready for uploading (just do a PUT on
  ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/incoming)

- it's very easy for me to administer the database, so send ANY URL to
  me you think is useful, and upload whatever you please. Within a few
  days I'll have a primitive access interface anyway. All I need, is
  the author's name and the URL.



Magic word:

- Frederic mirrors what franz is collecting, as promised. So far we
  only have 72 entries, but it's a promising start.

- Please check out
  ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/CPAN/pml/byauthor. It's an excellent
  archive with the potential to become *the* one or to become *the*
  model of how we want to have perl extules be distributed.




Bad:

- currently only I can add new modules, new authors, new URLs.

- Before we can have a broader write access, there has to be evaluated
  a user interface.

- the module list cannot be produced from the database (not close) ->
  urgent problem, because I want to keep in sync with it. I have had
  some thoughts about that, but I'm too tired.

- Keywords and other lexicographic information: the list should find a
  consensus, how this kind of information should be propagated. A MIME
  Header within a README file? A seperat file to avoid optical
  distortions. Should the README file be extracted on franz? How
  should the .announce files find a continuity?

- The who-is-who file should be distributet. (Yes, more than that!)




Omissions intentionales:

    I don't quite know, which status these have:
    --------------------------------------------
 Socket-5.001d.tar.gz   20-Aug-95 22:32     4K 
 Stack.gz               20-Aug-95 22:33     1K 
 Xbase.url              20-Aug-95 22:39     2K 
 perlvision.announce    20-Aug-95 22:54     2K 

    I don't know who is the author:)
    --------------------------------
 DoWhatIWant.pm.gz      20-Aug-95 22:16     1K 

    These were never intended for a wider distribution:
    ---------------------------------------------------
 CGI-modules-1.09.tar.> 20-Aug-95 22:08    47K 
 DBD-Oracle-0.a1.tar.Z  20-Aug-95 22:10    36K 
 DBI-0.a1.tar.Z         20-Aug-95 22:13    37K 

    I think these are replaced by younger versions:
    -----------------------------------------------
 GL-0.2.tar.gz          20-Aug-95 22:19     5K 
 MSQLPerl-1.0.announce  20-Aug-95 22:24     2K 
 Module.site.info       20-Aug-95 22:29     7K 
 StatsBasic.pm.announce 20-Aug-95 22:34     3K 
 Symdump-1.19.shar      20-Aug-95 22:34    26K 
 Tcl-perl-a2.tar.gz     20-Aug-95 22:35    18K 
 Tk-b7.announce         20-Aug-95 22:35     2K 
 Tk-b7.tar.gz           20-Aug-95 22:35     0K 
 listing.html           20-Aug-95 22:46    13K 
 menu                   20-Aug-95 22:47     1K 
 modules.list           20-Aug-95 22:51    47K 
 modules.list.gz        20-Aug-95 22:53    17K 
 pgperl.announce        20-Aug-95 23:00     2K 
 pgperl5_1.0b_src.tar.Z 20-Aug-95 23:01    77K 

    No version numbers:
    -------------------
 DBD.Oracle.README      20-Aug-95 22:13    10K 
 DBperl.README.gz       20-Aug-95 22:14     1K 
 DevelCallerItem.modul> 20-Aug-95 22:16     2K 
 GD.announce            20-Aug-95 22:18     4K 
 SYS_funcs.shar.gz      20-Aug-95 22:32     6K 
 SelfLoader.pm          20-Aug-95 22:32     6K 
 cperl-mode.el          20-Aug-95 22:40     0K 
 safe.url               20-Aug-95 23:03     5K 



Good night,
andreas



From kjahds@kjahds.com Mon Aug 21 01:52:24 1995
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Date: Sun, 20 Aug 1995 21:52:24 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: Module List Server
In-Reply-To: <199508210100.DAA03072@anna.mind.de>
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950820214949.853A-100000@kjahds.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 21 Aug 1995, Andreas Koenig wrote:

> - Keywords and other lexicographic information: the list should find a
>   consensus, how this kind of information should be propagated. A MIME
>   Header within a README file? A seperat file to avoid optical
>   distortions. Should the README file be extracted on franz? How
>   should the .announce files find a continuity?

I'd suggest something like this:

If a README file is included and starts with /^\S:\s+(\S.*)$/ then RFC822 
headers up to a blank line are used. If a "module.psm" file exists, it is 
used in a similar fashion. (Perl Software Map.) 

Ideally, headers could be picked off the _end_ of README, which I think 
should solve the optical distortions problem. Perhaps there should be 
specific begin and end keywords which denote it's placement within the file.

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Mon Aug 21 10:07:22 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com, andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: Module List Server
Date: Mon, 21 Aug 1995 11:07:22 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9508211106.ae12123@post.demon.co.uk>


> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
>     These were never intended for a wider distribution:
>     ---------------------------------------------------
>  DBD-Oracle-0.a1.tar.Z  20-Aug-95 22:10    36K 
>  DBI-0.a1.tar.Z         20-Aug-95 22:13    37K 
> 
I presume they've come from the automatic mirroring of ftp.demon.co.uk.
I hope they'll be deleted when I delete them from ftp.demon.co.uk!

This is an interesting point. Are 'you' going to manually copy each
DBI and DBD release from ftp.demon.co.uk or a mirror into your tree?
Since the filenames change each release you'll have to mirror the
entire release directories. That'll put an extra layer below your
byauthor tree (and elesewhere).

>     I think these are replaced by younger versions:
>     -----------------------------------------------
>  modules.list           20-Aug-95 22:51    47K 
>  modules.list.gz        20-Aug-95 22:53    17K 

The module list should be mirrored from its official (automatic) archive:

    ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/perl-faq/module-list

along with the FAQ.

> Good night,

Good work.

> andreas
> 
Tim.

From k@anna.mind.de Tue Aug 22 13:49:42 1995
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	 id PAA08389; Tue, 22 Aug 1995 15:49:42 +0200
Date: Tue, 22 Aug 1995 15:49:42 +0200
Message-Id: <199508221349.PAA08389@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, andreas.koenig@mind.de
In-Reply-To: <9508211106.ae12123@post.demon.co.uk> (message from Tim Bunce on
	Mon, 21 Aug 1995 11:07:22 +0100)
Subject: Directories && mirrors (Was: Module List Server)
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

   From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>

   This is an interesting point. Are 'you' going to manually copy each
   DBI and DBD release from ftp.demon.co.uk or a mirror into your tree?
   Since the filenames change each release you'll have to mirror the
   entire release directories. That'll put an extra layer below your
   byauthor tree (and elesewhere).

Offhand I'd say directory mirroring should be possible. I have already
hooks for mirroring files (not yet implemented), so extending this to
directories would seem ok to me.

I could also argue, if there is already an ftp server serving a module
the detour through franz could be avoided. But then again things may
change too rapidly and having a central depository, where the
modulelist info is kept has a value of its own.

The interface could be as simple as

    >> Please, enter an URL that you want to have copied into your
    >> directory. If you have uploaded into
    >> ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/incoming/, just enter the filename.
    >> If the last character of the URL is a slash, the URL will be
    >> treated as a directory and will be copied completely
    >> 
    >> [                                       ]
    >> 
    >> If you want to have the file or directory be mirrored on a
    >> regular basis, please check the checkbox below

    >> [ ] Yes, this URL should be mirrored

I think I'll do that unless you see a reason why I shouldn't.


andreas

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Sun Aug 27 19:50:03 1995
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To: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: ftp://perl.com/pub/perl/
Reply-To: tchrist@perl.com
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 95 13:50:03 MDT
Message-Id: <19888.809553003@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

i've been playing with this a bit.  here's the current index.

% ls -lR /pub/perl

total 59
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         7 Aug 19 09:54 CGI -> ext/CGI
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3786 Apr 23 23:33 INDEX
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist         0 Aug 27 13:48 INDEX-ls-lR
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     32567 Aug 27 13:05 INDEX-lst
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1363 Apr 23 23:34 INDEX.gz
-rw-r--r-- 16 tchrist       917 Aug 23 07:26 README-gzip
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist       143 Aug 17 08:36 README-ports
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         7 Aug 16 17:42 TCL -> ext/TCL
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         6 Aug 16 17:42 TK -> ext/TK
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 27 11:16 WWW
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Oct 23  1994 bench
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         3 Aug 27 13:08 cgi -> CGI
drwxr-xr-x  5 tchrist      1024 Aug 27 10:31 doc
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         3 Aug 24 18:03 etc -> ext
drwxr-xr-x  6 tchrist      2048 Aug 27 13:47 ext
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         3 Aug 27 13:44 extensions -> ext
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        13 Aug 25 15:16 html-tools -> ext/CGI/tools
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root            3 Dec 30  1994 info -> doc
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 25 15:17 lib
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Apr 19 15:15 misc
lrwxrwxrwx  1 root            9 Dec 30  1994 quotes -> ../quotes
drwxr-xr-x 13 tchrist      1024 Aug 25 15:18 scripts
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 23 13:07 src
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 26 19:20 versus

WWW:
total 3
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        17 Aug 27 11:12 CGI -> /pub/perl/ext/CGI
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        18 Aug 27 11:12 HTML -> /pub/perl/ext/HTML
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        20 Aug 27 11:12 html-tools -> /pub/perl/html-tools

bench:
total 2
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1462 Oct 23  1994 benchio

doc:
total 1026
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        20 Aug 20 08:23 00ManPages.ps.gz -> PerlDoc-5.001m.ps.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist    203899 Aug 27 10:03 FAQ
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     77382 Aug 27 10:03 FAQ.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3376 Apr 16 12:43 MetaFAQ-1.4.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3808 Oct 30  1994 Perl5-for-MSDOS.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist    401163 Aug 17 09:29 PerlDoc-5.001m.ps.gz
-rw-r--r--  3 tchrist     20456 Aug 17 10:29 PerlDoc-Cover.ps.gz
-rw-r--r--  3 tchrist      4660 Oct 23  1994 PerlDoc-TOC.ps.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3930 Oct 20  1994 Perlv5.0-Release-Note.gz
-rw-r--r-- 16 tchrist       917 Aug 23 07:26 README-gzip
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Jul 19 12:01 books
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist      5509 Aug 16 19:00 cgi-faq.gz
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 26 18:50 everything_to_know
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     19989 Aug 17 07:45 how-to-cgi.ps.gz
-rw-r--r--  3 tchrist     20893 Aug 25 05:47 modules.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1442 Jul 19 10:57 nt.info
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         9 Aug 21 11:17 perl-vs-others -> ../versus
-r--r--r--  1 tchrist     10912 Aug 22 10:28 perl4-to-5-diffs.pl
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist    219226 Mar 15 23:45 perlref-5.0.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1225 Aug 16 21:39 printPerlManual
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1450 Aug 17 17:18 printPerlManual2
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 27 10:01 rtfm-mirror
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     10884 Aug 21 13:16 tk-userguide.ps.gz

doc/books:
total 10
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2647 Jul 19 12:01 pbx
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6212 Jul 19 12:01 various

doc/everything_to_know:
total 72
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     35987 Aug 26 18:51 mdim-arrays.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3803 Apr 23 16:29 slices
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     24012 Apr 23 16:29 sorting
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      7392 Apr 23 16:29 switch_statements

doc/rtfm-mirror:
total 259
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     57942 Aug 25 04:21 module-list
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11836 Aug 16 01:15 part0
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     45650 Aug 16 01:14 part1
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     29640 Aug 16 01:14 part2
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     27426 Aug 16 01:14 part3
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     48198 Aug 16 01:15 part4
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     41149 Aug 16 01:15 part5

ext:
total 1451
-rw-r--r--  3 tchrist     20893 Aug 25 05:47 00MODULES-LIST.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      4282 Jul 26 21:46 ANNOUNCE-funet
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1669 Apr 15 17:12 AddINC-1.0.tar.gz
drwxr-xr-x  7 tchrist       512 Aug 27 13:20 CGI
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5967 Jun 18 11:11 CGI.announcement
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     26935 Aug 15 17:01 Curses-a8.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1387 Apr 15 17:53 DBperl.README.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1608 Apr 15 17:21 DES.announce
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6497 Apr 15 17:11 DProf.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6505 Apr 15 17:12 Date-GetDate-0.01a.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1672 Apr 24 19:36 DumpStack-1.0.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6447 Apr 21 12:19 Dumper.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     18127 Apr 15 17:12 EventDrivenServer-1.2.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6188 May 15 21:00 ExtUtils-Peek-0.3.tar.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      7653 May 14 17:42 FileKGlob.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5313 Apr 15 17:12 GL-0.2.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     26424 Apr  9 16:02 GetDate.shar.gz
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        18 Aug 25 15:17 HTML -> CGI/lib-perl5/HTML
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5182 Apr 15 17:12 InitializeServer-1.0.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5398 Apr 15 17:32 MD5.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1936 Aug 23 16:44 MIME.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11429 Apr 15 17:12 Mail-RFC822-0.02a.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     13000 Apr 15 17:12 MathPari_a3.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11584 Apr 15 17:22 MsqlPerl5-a1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     30126 Jun  4 10:47 NNTPClient-0.17
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6530 May 23 12:59 Net-FTP-1.01a.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     36261 Apr 15 17:12 Net-ext-a5.tar.gz
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 24 16:45 News
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      7611 Apr 15 17:12 Prolog-alpha.tar.gz
-rw-rw-r--  1 tchrist     15339 Aug 15 13:05 Ptty-0.01.tar.gz
-rw-r--r-- 16 tchrist       917 Aug 23 07:26 README-gzip
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       694 Dec  5  1994 README.Des
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2297 May 19 00:59 README.GD
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3574 Aug 22 16:47 README.Safe
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist    483639 Aug 16 07:50 SNMP-1.3.tgz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     42754 Aug 22 10:19 Safe-b1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6415 Aug 15 16:37 SelfLoader.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      4212 Apr 15 17:12 Socket-5.001d.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      4098 Aug 18 07:27 StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     87191 Apr 15 17:23 Sx-1.6.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     96584 Aug 15 13:11 Sx-2.0-Beta.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     26245 Aug 15 16:37 Symdump-1.19.shar
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 16 17:38 TCL
drwxr-xr-x  3 tchrist       512 Aug 25 07:45 TK
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      7612 May 15 21:11 Term-Gnuplot-0.2.tar.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     36701 Aug 17 08:01 Term-ReadLine-0.7.tar.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     41848 Aug 15 12:49 TermReadKey-1.99.tar.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2853 May 15 21:38 Text-Trie-0.2.tar.Z
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         2 Aug 25 07:51 Tk -> TK
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     49995 Aug 27 09:40 URL-3.02.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11102 Apr 15 17:12 Usage-beta.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     16272 Oct 17  1994 cursperl5a6.tar.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist     12965 Aug 15 12:52 diagnostics.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      7565 Aug 27 13:47 diagnostics.shar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     62207 Aug 27 09:41 lwp-0.03.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      9431 Apr 21 12:20 menu.pl.v3.1.announce
-rw-r--r--  3 tchrist     20893 Aug 25 05:47 modules.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     12314 Aug 17 08:01 perl5db-kit-0.7.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     92937 Aug 15 17:09 perlmenu.v3.2.tar.Z
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         2 Aug 25 07:51 tk -> TK

ext/CGI:
total 6
-rw-r--r-- 16 tchrist       917 Aug 23 07:26 README-gzip
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 21 11:56 docs
drwxr-xr-x  3 tchrist       512 Aug 19 10:05 eg
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 23 07:25 lib-perl4
drwxr-xr-x  4 tchrist       512 Aug 27 13:38 lib-perl5
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 19 10:45 tools

ext/CGI/docs:
total 59
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist      5509 Aug 16 19:00 cgi-faq.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     13324 Jul  7 14:47 cgi_docs.html.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     19105 Aug 15 20:10 cgi_docs.ps.gz
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     19989 Aug 17 07:45 how-to-cgi.ps.gz

ext/CGI/eg:
total 15
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 23 07:21 angelgrep
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist     13748 Apr 21 15:02 picknewsgroups

ext/CGI/eg/angelgrep:
total 149
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       365 Aug 23 07:20 README-angelgrep
-rw-r--r-- 16 tchrist       917 Aug 23 07:26 README-gzip
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      6009 Aug 19 10:06 angelgrep.cgi
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      4087 Aug 19 10:05 angelgrep.html
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      2306 Aug 19 10:06 angelgrep.pl
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     92746 Aug  8 19:47 rule-cards.txt.gz
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     43655 Aug  8 19:49 rule-general.txt.gz

ext/CGI/lib-perl4:
total 98
-rw-r--r-- 16 tchrist       917 Aug 23 07:26 README-gzip
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      4550 Aug 16 12:21 cgi-lib.pl
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3500 Aug 15 12:53 cgi_handlers.pl
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     89784 Sep 20  1994 libwww-perl-0.40.tar.gz

ext/CGI/lib-perl5:
total 836
drwxr-xr-x  3 tchrist       512 Jul  7 11:30 CGI-modules
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     42010 Aug 14 08:40 CGI-modules.2.4.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5967 Jun 18 11:11 CGI.announcement
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     14756 Aug  8 19:37 CGI.pm.1.53.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1194 Aug 16 13:02 ErrorWrap.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     52275 Jul 13 13:11 GD-0.26.tar.Z
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     35781 Jul 13 13:11 GD.html
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 25 15:19 HTML
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6490 Aug 27 12:42 Imagemap.pm-posting
-rw-r--r-- 16 tchrist       917 Aug 23 07:26 README-gzip
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      8710 Aug 27 12:38 Response.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     14481 Aug 27 12:40 Response.posting
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     49995 Aug 27 09:40 URL-3.02.pm
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        29 Aug 27 12:30 lwp-0.03.tar.gz -> /pub/perl/ext/lwp-0.03.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist    600386 Aug 27 11:16 mailing-list.tar.gz

ext/CGI/lib-perl5/CGI-modules:
total 6
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Jul  7 11:32 CGI
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       529 Dec 31  1969 Makefile
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       478 Dec 31  1969 start
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        11 Aug 27 13:30 t_base.pl -> CGI/Base.pm
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        14 Aug 27 13:30 t_mini.pl -> CGI/MiniSvr.pm
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        14 Aug 27 13:30 t_req.pl -> CGI/Request.pm

ext/CGI/lib-perl5/CGI-modules/CGI:
total 121
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist     33158 Aug 14 06:40 Base.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11247 Dec 31  1969 Base.pm.html
-r-xr-xr-x  1 tchrist     32667 Jul  7 11:31 MiniSvr.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11940 Dec 31  1969 MiniSvr.pm.html
-r-xr-xr-x  1 tchrist     19387 Dec 31  1969 Request.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     14113 Dec 31  1969 Request.pm.html

ext/CGI/lib-perl5/HTML:
total 29
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     25761 Jul 26 10:10 HTML_0.6.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1904 Aug 19 10:10 Simple.pm
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        19 Aug 25 15:19 tools -> /pub/perl/CGI/tools

ext/CGI/tools:
total 233
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist    129204 Aug 19 09:58 htmlcheck.tar.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1928 Aug 19 10:44 sumwww
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     34111 Aug 16 17:31 weblint-1.011.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     62135 Apr 24  1994 wwwstat-1.01.tar.Z

ext/News:
total 79
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     30126 Jun  4 10:47 NNTPClient-0.17
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     19940 Aug 24 16:46 NNTPClient.3
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     28867 May 17 00:57 NNTPClient.pm

ext/TCL:
total 51
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1618 Jun  6 11:53 README.Tcl
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1304 Jun  6 13:04 README.TclTk
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         5 Aug 16 17:38 TK -> ../TK
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     14950 Jun  6 11:41 Tcl-b1.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     18561 Dec  5  1994 Tcl-perl-a2.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11499 Jun  6 13:01 TclTk-b1.tar.gz

ext/TK:
total 1942
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     10380 Aug 25 07:44 Composite.man
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6142 Aug 24 18:25 Composite.pod
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      9589 Aug 25 07:43 ConfigSpec.man
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5670 Aug 25 07:43 ConfigSpec.pod
-rw-r--r-- 16 tchrist       917 Aug 23 07:26 README-gzip
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         6 Aug 16 17:38 TCL -> ../TCL
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist   1924574 Aug 16 06:26 Tk-b8.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6186 Apr 28 06:28 Tkperldb-a1.tar.gz
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 21 17:27 eg
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     10884 Aug 21 13:16 tk-userguide.ps.gz

ext/TK/eg:
total 7
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6783 Aug 21 17:27 netcomplain

lib:
total 40
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     26424 Apr  9 16:02 GetDate.shar.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2477 Oct 23  1994 Patricia.pm
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist      1321 Nov  2  1994 Server.pm.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6161 Apr 23 23:30 SysFuncs.shar.gz
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         6 Aug 25 15:17 ext -> ../ext
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       428 Oct 23  1994 patricia.t

misc:
total 216
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist    212118 Apr 19 15:15 shrd01.tar.gz

scripts:
total 228
drwxr-xr-x 13 tchrist       512 May 17 07:47 ADVLABS
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 19 09:54 CGI
-rw-r--r-- 16 tchrist       917 Aug 23 07:26 README-gzip
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      2252 Jun 26 08:36 angelgrep
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       127 May 10 10:31 bad
drwxr-xr-x  3 tchrist       512 Aug 22 10:43 binstuff
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       427 Aug 22  1991 boxit
drwxr-xr-x  3 tchrist       512 May 16 03:45 cgi
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist     17651 Nov  9  1994 clip
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      2791 Nov  9  1994 dfgripe
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Nov  9  1994 doc
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       414 Nov  9  1994 dupwords
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1243 Nov  9  1994 dutree
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1776 Nov  9  1994 expn
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       978 Nov  9  1994 flinx
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        13 Aug 25 15:18 html-tools -> ../html-tools
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1384 Nov  9  1994 hwo
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1271 Nov  9  1994 igrep
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1718 Nov  9  1994 lst
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     51708 Oct 23  1994 man.shar.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       170 Nov  9  1994 manpath
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:41 matchem
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:42 msort
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      3955 May  8 01:53 ndf
drwxr-xr-x  3 tchrist       512 May 16 03:44 net
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6783 Aug 17 02:15 netcomplain.perltk
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 26 16:45 nice
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1033 Nov  9  1994 now
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       352 Nov  9  1994 pgrep
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist     29540 Oct 23  1994 plum.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      6205 Nov  9  1994 pt
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      8323 Apr 17 23:47 pt.shar.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       840 Aug  2 19:57 ptags
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      2629 Nov  9  1994 rename
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       711 Nov  9  1994 rmmq
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1329 Nov  9  1994 rweb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      2414 Nov  9  1994 seced
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      3161 Nov  9  1994 sigrand
-rwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       245 Oct 23  1994 sortsig
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1389 Nov  9  1994 sox
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist     20968 Nov 15  1994 splain.gz
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      3963 Nov  9  1994 ssl
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       495 Nov  9  1994 straycats
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      2777 Nov  9  1994 suidscript
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      4705 Nov  9  1994 tcgrep
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1157 Nov  9  1994 tct
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:42 tee
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       221 Nov  9  1994 tfiles
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      2506 Nov  9  1994 tgent
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:43 timeouts
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         5 Apr 28 06:54 tk -> ../tk
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      7754 Nov  9  1994 zap

scripts/ADVLABS:
total 17
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       127 May 10 10:31 bad
drwxr-xr-x  3 tchrist       512 May 26 16:56 binstuff
drwxr-xr-x  3 tchrist       512 May 16 03:45 cgi
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       607 May 17 07:46 findbig
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:42 lst
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       170 May 17 06:05 manpath
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       985 May 17 06:05 manpath-verbose
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:41 matchem
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:42 msort
drwxr-xr-x  3 tchrist       512 Aug 24 11:00 net
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 26 16:45 nice
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Jul 21 12:43 rprint
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1369 May 17 07:36 sortbylen
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:42 tee
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:43 timeouts
drwxr-xr-x  3 tchrist       512 May 16 03:49 tk

scripts/ADVLABS/binstuff:
total 8
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:48 SYS
-rwxr--r--  1 tchrist       829 May  9 06:35 cpfiles
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1520 May  9 07:51 cut.pl
-rwxr--r--  1 tchrist      1595 May  9 07:21 lastlog
-rwxr--r--  1 tchrist      1334 May  9 07:31 lastlog-better

scripts/ADVLABS/binstuff/SYS:
total 1
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       877 May  9 07:32 lastlog.pm

scripts/ADVLABS/cgi:
total 30
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:47 CGI
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3791 Mar 15 10:34 Card-Form.html
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2053 Mar  3 10:13 Card-Index.html
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3500 Nov 19  1994 cgi_handlers.pl
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       985 Jan  2  1995 gencards
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      2813 Apr  1 23:23 pickcards
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist     13775 May 12 00:36 picknewsgroups

scripts/ADVLABS/cgi/CGI:
total 100
-r-xr-xr-x  1 tchrist     27108 Apr 29 04:57 Base.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      8999 Apr 29 04:58 Base.pm.html
-r-xr-xr-x  1 tchrist     25339 Apr 29 04:57 MiniSvr.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      9572 Apr 29 04:58 MiniSvr.pm.html
-r-xr-xr-x  1 tchrist     17237 Apr 29 04:57 Request.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11940 Apr 29 04:58 Request.pm.html

scripts/ADVLABS/lst:
total 5
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1724 May  8 06:25 lst.fancy
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1721 May  8 07:02 lst.fancy.SYS
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       215 May  8 06:29 lst.simple

scripts/ADVLABS/matchem:
total 1
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       443 May  8 05:11 match_any.pl

scripts/ADVLABS/msort:
total 3
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       548 May  9 03:40 sortm-addrdate
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       229 May  9 03:01 sortm-bysub
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       327 May  9 03:01 sortm-datesub

scripts/ADVLABS/net:
total 16
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:43 TCP
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       257 May 11 03:41 daytime
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       204 May 11 06:11 fing
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       173 May 12 00:16 getng
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist        81 May 11 07:08 pquote
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       159 Nov 10  1994 qotd
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      9632 May  5 08:36 statmon

scripts/ADVLABS/net/TCP:
total 9
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1123 May 12 00:16 Client.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2738 May 11 07:01 Server.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3215 Oct  6  1994 sigrand

scripts/ADVLABS/nice:
total 5
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1487 May 11 02:34 Nice-old.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1547 May 11 05:33 Nice.pm
-rwxr--r--  1 tchrist       238 May 11 05:24 testnice

scripts/ADVLABS/rprint:
total 22
-rw-------  1 tchrist      4388 Jul 25 13:08 @
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2000 May 10 10:32 Bug-Report
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5605 May 26 13:59 Dumper.pm
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       936 May 10 05:25 getdots
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1214 May 10 10:29 getdots-strict
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2410 May 10 04:02 pref.pm
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist        80 May 26 14:11 t1
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1016 May 26 14:02 testD
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       982 May 26 16:54 testpref

scripts/ADVLABS/tee:
total 3
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1163 May  9 08:38 tctee-v4
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1001 May  9 08:44 tctee-v5

scripts/ADVLABS/timeouts:
total 4
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       726 May  8 05:06 TimeOut.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       138 May  8 03:58 testmod
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       552 May  8 03:39 timeout-v4.pl
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       608 May  8 04:46 timeout-v5.pl

scripts/ADVLABS/tk:
total 26
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:43 TCP
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       726 May  8 05:06 TimeOut.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6832 May 12 02:26 netcomplain
-rwxr--r--  1 tchrist      3834 May 12 07:47 servomatic
-rwxr--r--  1 tchrist     12588 Aug 16 18:40 widget_demo

scripts/ADVLABS/tk/TCP:
total 9
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1123 May 12 00:16 Client.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2738 May 11 07:01 Server.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3215 Oct  6  1994 sigrand

scripts/CGI:
total 0

scripts/binstuff:
total 1
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:48 SYS

scripts/binstuff/SYS:
total 1
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       877 May  9 07:32 lastlog.pm

scripts/cgi:
total 30
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:47 CGI
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3791 Mar 15 10:34 Card-Form.html
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2053 Mar  3 10:13 Card-Index.html
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3500 Nov 19  1994 cgi_handlers.pl
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       985 Jan  2  1995 gencards
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      2813 Apr  1 23:23 pickcards
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist     13775 May 12 00:36 picknewsgroups

scripts/cgi/CGI:
total 100
-r-xr-xr-x  1 tchrist     27108 Apr 29 04:57 Base.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      8999 Apr 29 04:58 Base.pm.html
-r-xr-xr-x  1 tchrist     25339 Apr 29 04:57 MiniSvr.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      9572 Apr 29 04:58 MiniSvr.pm.html
-r-xr-xr-x  1 tchrist     17237 Apr 29 04:57 Request.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11940 Apr 29 04:58 Request.pm.html

scripts/doc:
total 31
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1026 Aug 16  1994 clip
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       384 Aug 16  1994 cptimes
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       685 Aug 16  1994 dfgripe
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       587 Aug 16  1994 dupwords
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       745 Aug 16  1994 dutree
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       451 Aug 16  1994 expn
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       462 Aug 16  1994 flinx
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       840 Aug 16  1994 hwo
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       713 Aug 16  1994 igrep
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       744 Aug 16  1994 lst
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       430 Aug 16  1994 manpath
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       316 Aug 16  1994 now
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       427 Aug 16  1994 pgrep
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1042 Aug 16  1994 pt
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       812 Aug 16  1994 rename
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       375 Aug 16  1994 rmmq
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       482 Aug 16  1994 rweb
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       686 Aug 16  1994 seced
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       585 Aug 16  1994 sigrand
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       407 Aug 16  1994 sortbylen
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       406 Aug 16  1994 sox
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       498 Aug 16  1994 ssl
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       366 Aug 16  1994 straycats
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       526 Aug 16  1994 suidscript
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       499 Aug 16  1994 tcgrep
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       485 Aug 16  1994 tct
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       412 Aug 16  1994 tfiles
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       486 Aug 16  1994 tgent
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       572 Aug 16  1994 zap

scripts/matchem:
total 1
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       443 May  8 05:11 match_any.pl

scripts/msort:
total 3
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       548 May  9 03:40 sortm-addrdate
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       229 May  9 03:01 sortm-bysub
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       327 May  9 03:01 sortm-datesub

scripts/net:
total 16
drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 May 16 03:43 TCP
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       257 May 11 03:41 daytime
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       204 May 11 06:11 fing
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       173 May 12 00:16 getng
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist        81 May 11 07:08 pquote
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist       159 Nov 10  1994 qotd
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      9632 May  5 08:36 statmon

scripts/net/TCP:
total 9
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1123 May 12 00:16 Client.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2738 May 11 07:01 Server.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3215 Oct  6  1994 sigrand

scripts/nice:
total 5
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1487 May 11 02:34 Nice-old.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1547 May 11 05:33 Nice.pm
-rwxr--r--  1 tchrist       238 May 11 05:24 testnice

scripts/tee:
total 3
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1163 May  9 08:38 tctee-v4
-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist      1001 May  9 08:44 tctee-v5

scripts/timeouts:
total 4
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       726 May  8 05:06 TimeOut.pm
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       138 May  8 03:58 testmod
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       552 May  8 03:39 timeout-v4.pl
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       608 May  8 04:46 timeout-v5.pl

src:
total 1168
-rw-r--r-- 16 tchrist       917 Aug 23 07:26 README-gzip
-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist       143 Aug 17 08:36 README-ports
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      9872 Aug 18 20:22 closure-bug.patch
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         6 Aug 21 11:36 extensions -> ../ext
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2826 Aug 23 13:07 op-segfault.patch
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist   1163858 Aug 17 11:41 perl5.001m.tar.gz

versus:
total 39
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       364 Aug 21 11:51 INDEX
lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        28 Aug 21 11:47 csh.whynot.gz -> ../../csh/info/csh.whynot.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6180 Aug 22 08:03 java
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3010 Aug 22 08:04 java.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5066 Aug 21 10:51 python
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2531 Aug 21 12:06 python.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2870 Aug 23 17:56 tcl-complaints
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1496 Aug 23 17:56 tcl-complaints.gz
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      9193 Aug 21 10:53 tcl-discussion
-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      4233 Aug 21 12:06 tcl-discussion.gz

From k@anna.mind.de Sun Aug 27 20:21:17 1995
Received: from anna.mind.de by metronet.com with SMTP id AA22642
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Sun, 27 Aug 1995 15:20:55 -0500
Return-Path: <k@anna.mind.de>
Received: by anna.mind.de (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI)
	 id WAA01633; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 22:21:17 +0200
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 22:21:17 +0200
Message-Id: <199508272021.WAA01633@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: CGI-perl@webstorm.com
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <19631.809552294@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Sun, 27
	Aug 95 13:38:14 MDT)
Subject: Re: New maintainer of CGI::* modules
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de





Off topic:
Above this line I left 4 lines blank, after I realized that all my
postings get a strange appearance from the postprocessing done by
majordomo/hypermail.


  >From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
  >
  >You think that's bad.  You should see mine. :-(
  >
  >--tom
  >
  >% ls -lR /pub/perl/ext/CGI


Follow-ups to perl-packrats@metronet.com.

A small sunday morning story.

I heard about mailcrypt, an emacs/pgp package today. Asked archie for
maicrypt and got a lot of *unusable* mailcrypt.el files. I tried it
with 'mailcrypt-' and found out that there are versions named
'-3.2'. I tried 'mailcrypt-3' and found the package
'mailcrypt-3.3.tar.gz'. After 15 minutes I had a real funky (the very
recent) emacs package to handle pgp installed.

tar -xzf ... , ./configure  , make  , make install

DONE.

Why isn't the perl community going with that idiot proof scheme?



andreas


From tchrist@mox.perl.com Sun Aug 27 20:28:21 1995
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Received: from localhost.perl.com (Warm-Fuzzies@localhost.perl.com [127.0.0.1]) by mox.perl.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id OAA20944; Sun, 27 Aug 1995 14:28:22 -0600
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: CGI-perl@webstorm.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@nicoh.com>
Subject: Perl module build mechanism
In-Reply-To: Andreas Koenig's message <199508272021.WAA01633@anna.mind.de> of Sun, 27 Aug 95 22:21:17 +0200.
References: <199508272021.WAA01633@anna.mind.de> 
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 95 14:28:21 MDT
Message-Id: <20941.809555301@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

[followup to perl-porters, i imagine]

> tar -xzf ... , ./configure  , make  , make install

> Why isn't the perl community going with that idiot proof scheme?

That's still too much.  Our current scheme of

    gzcat Foo.tar.gz | tar xf - 
    cd Foo
    perl Makefile.PL
    make
    make test
    make install

is only somewhat suboptimal. 

a stub makefile should be included that bootstraps
a real one via perl Makefile.PL if needed would help.
likewise, if a configure step is needed, that should not 
have to be specified.  the build system should figure it out
and run it if it needs to.

also, we don't yet have 'make install' include the doc 
temp, which would be something like:
pod2man foo.pm > foo.3pm 

--tom

From kjahds@kjahds.com Sun Aug 27 20:54:57 1995
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  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Sun, 27 Aug 1995 16:11:43 -0500
Return-Path: <kjahds@kjahds.com>
Received: by kjahds.com (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0smojK-0000a0C;
	  Sun, 27 Aug 95 16:54 EDT
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 16:54:57 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, CGI-perl@webstorm.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@nicoh.com>
Subject: Re: Perl module build mechanism
In-Reply-To: <20941.809555301@mox>
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950827164924.178A-100000@kjahds.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 27 Aug 1995, Tom Christiansen wrote:

> [followup to perl-porters, i imagine]
> 
> > tar -xzf ... , ./configure  , make  , make install
> 
> > Why isn't the perl community going with that idiot proof scheme?
> 
> That's still too much.  Our current scheme of
> 
>     gzcat Foo.tar.gz | tar xf - 
>     cd Foo
>     perl Makefile.PL
>     make
>     make test
>     make install
> 
> is only somewhat suboptimal. 
> 
> a stub makefile should be included that bootstraps
> a real one via perl Makefile.PL if needed would help.
> likewise, if a configure step is needed, that should not 
> have to be specified.  the build system should figure it out
> and run it if it needs to.

The latter isn't a problem, as far as I can see. The Makefile.PL should 
invoke the configuration, or write the invokation into the makefile if 
there are files that can be used to trigger configuration.

The stub makefile is more of a problem, as we went through before. 
Apparently some makes can get confused if you rewrite the Makefile you 
are using. And some, like GNU, recognize exactly what you are doing, and 
will automatically reinvoke themselves on the new makefile.

> also, we don't yet have 'make install' include the doc 
> temp, which would be something like:
> pod2man foo.pm > foo.3pm 

How about this: let's add questions to Configure that ask for the section
and extension to use for installing the library man pages. That way we
know what the pages should be called, and where they should go (if
anywhere). The current position of $PERLDIR/man/man3 with an extension of
3p can stay as the default. 

MakeMaker can the add to the indicated repository any PODs. (Of course, 
some heuristics may be needed to figure out what files have pods, and 
what the man pages should be called.)

> --tom

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From tchrist@mox.perl.com Sun Aug 27 21:20:45 1995
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To: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
Cc: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>, andreas.koenig@mind.de,
        CGI-perl@webstorm.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@nicoh.com>,
        tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Perl module build mechanism 
In-Reply-To: Kenneth Albanowski's message <Pine.LNX.3.91.950827164924.178A-100000@kjahds.com> of Sun, 27 Aug 95 16:54:57 EDT.
References: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950827164924.178A-100000@kjahds.com> 
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 95 15:20:45 MDT
Message-Id: <22081.809558445@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

> > also, we don't yet have 'make install' include the doc 
> > temp, which would be something like:
> > pod2man foo.pm > foo.3pm 

> How about this: let's add questions to Configure that ask for the section
> and extension to use for installing the library man pages. That way we
> know what the pages should be called, and where they should go (if
> anywhere). The current position of $PERLDIR/man/man3 with an extension of
> 3p can stay as the default. 

hm... i suppose that that *is* more in line with 
each major software package having its own bin, lib, and 
man dirs.  i've just always kept mine in /usr/local/man/man3/*.3pm myself.

hm.. 14-char filenames might be  a problem.  oh well, they
have other problems.


--tom

From kjahds@kjahds.com Sun Aug 27 21:23:20 1995
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	  Sun, 27 Aug 95 17:23 EDT
Date: Sun, 27 Aug 1995 17:23:20 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Cc: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>, andreas.koenig@mind.de,
        CGI-perl@webstorm.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@nicoh.com>,
        tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Perl module build mechanism 
In-Reply-To: <22081.809558445@mox>
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.950827172228.178C-100000@kjahds.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Sun, 27 Aug 1995, Tom Christiansen wrote:

> > > also, we don't yet have 'make install' include the doc 
> > > temp, which would be something like:
> > > pod2man foo.pm > foo.3pm 
> 
> > How about this: let's add questions to Configure that ask for the section
> > and extension to use for installing the library man pages. That way we
> > know what the pages should be called, and where they should go (if
> > anywhere). The current position of $PERLDIR/man/man3 with an extension of
> > 3p can stay as the default. 
> 
> hm... i suppose that that *is* more in line with 
> each major software package having its own bin, lib, and 
> man dirs.  i've just always kept mine in /usr/local/man/man3/*.3pm myself.

It also solves the problem of "just what is perl doing with the library 
man pages?"

> hm.. 14-char filenames might be  a problem.  oh well, they
> have other problems.

I guess this comes under naming heuristics in MakeMaker.

> --tom

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From k@anna.mind.de Sun Aug 27 22:23:21 1995
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Received: by anna.mind.de (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI)
	 id AAA01829; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 00:23:21 +0200
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 00:23:21 +0200
Message-Id: <199508272223.AAA01829@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: tchrist@perl.com
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
In-Reply-To: <19888.809553003@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Sun, 27
	Aug 95 13:50:03 MDT)
Subject: Re: ftp://perl.com/pub/perl/
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de


  >i've been playing with this a bit.  here's the current index.

some random additions. No, I'm not teasing you, Tom :). Please check
out ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/CPAN/pml/byauthor/, mirror it, and
help me to fill the holes there. The lines I introduced below are
relativ to the URL of pasteur.

I admit, that the database is weak at putting together related things
like Tk and CGI. This has to be done by hand and by *.psm files which
still have to be introduced to the porters. I have most of Tim's
module list in the database, so this one and only other ordering
scheme will come from here.

Some intruductory statements to the module list server are put
together in the pml homepage

<URL:http://franz.ww.TU-Berlin.DE/modulelist/>.


Good night,
andreas

  >ext:
  >total 1451
  >-rw-r--r--  3 tchrist     20893 Aug 25 05:47 00MODULES-LIST.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      4282 Jul 26 21:46 ANNOUNCE-funet
 17365    5 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        4838 Aug 20 16:28 ./GAAS/AFM-1.06.pm.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1669 Apr 15 17:12 AddINC-1.0.tar.gz
 17356    2 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        1690 Aug 20 22:07 ./GBARR/AlarmCall-1.1.announce
 17357    4 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        3858 Aug 20 22:07 ./GBARR/AlarmCall-1.1.tar.gz
  >drwxr-xr-x  7 tchrist       512 Aug 27 13:20 CGI
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5967 Jun 18 11:11 CGI.announcement
 17369    4 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        3479 Aug 20 22:09 ./JACKS/CallerItem-1.0.tar.gz
 17368    4 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        3101 Aug 20 16:30 ./GAAS/CounterFile-0.6.pm.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     26935 Aug 15 17:01 Curses-a8.tar.gz
 15766   44 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       44688 Aug 26 20:59 ./TIMB/DBD-Oracle-0.25.tar.Z
 15765   45 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       45885 Aug 26 20:56 ./TIMB/DBI-0.62.tar.Z
 17373    4 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        3874 Aug 20 22:14 ./IANPX/DBZ_File.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1387 Apr 15 17:53 DBperl.README.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1608 Apr 15 17:21 DES.announce
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6497 Apr 15 17:11 DProf.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6505 Apr 15 17:12 Date-GetDate-0.01a.tar.gz
 26131   11 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       10831 Aug 20 22:41 ./MICB/Des-perl-a1.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1672 Apr 24 19:36 DumpStack-1.0.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6447 Apr 21 12:19 Dumper.pm
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     18127 Apr 15 17:12 EventDrivenServer-1.2.tar.gz
 17383   55 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       56197 Aug 20 22:18 ./JACKS/EventDrivenServer-2.1.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6188 May 15 21:00 ExtUtils-Peek-0.3.tar.Z
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      7653 May 14 17:42 FileKGlob.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5313 Apr 15 17:12 GL-0.2.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     26424 Apr  9 16:02 GetDate.shar.gz
  >lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist        18 Aug 25 15:17 HTML -> CGI/lib-perl5/HTML
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5182 Apr 15 17:12 InitializeServer-1.0.tar.gz
 17387    2 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        1350 Aug 20 22:22 ./JACKS/IPC-SysV.announce
 17388   11 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       10378 Aug 20 22:23 ./JACKS/IPC_SysV.tar.gz
 12202   48 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       49040 Aug 20 09:26 ./KJALB/Ioctl-0.5.tar.Z
 10379    7 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        7098 Aug 20 09:13 ./NWINT/MD5-1.1.tar.gz
 17389    8 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        7222 Aug 20 22:23 ./NWINT/MD5-1.2.1.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      5398 Apr 15 17:32 MD5.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      1936 Aug 23 16:44 MIME.tar.gz
 17358   11 -rw-r--r--   1 nobody   nogroup     11188 Aug 19 22:24 ./GBARR/MailTools-1.02a.tar.gz
  8797   44 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       44284 Aug 20 15:47 ./ANDK/MakeMaker-4.18.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11429 Apr 15 17:12 Mail-RFC822-0.02a.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     13000 Apr 15 17:12 MathPari_a3.tar.gz
  8800   13 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       12818 Aug 21 22:51 ./ANDK/MsqlPerl-1.02.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11584 Apr 15 17:22 MsqlPerl5-a1.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     30126 Jun  4 10:47 NNTPClient-0.17
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6530 May 23 12:59 Net-FTP-1.01a.tar.gz
 17395   37 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       37316 Aug 20 22:30 ./SPIDB/Net-ext-a6.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     36261 Apr 15 17:12 Net-ext-a5.tar.gz
  >drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 24 16:45 News
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      7611 Apr 15 17:12 Prolog-alpha.tar.gz
  >-rw-rw-r--  1 tchrist     15339 Aug 15 13:05 Ptty-0.01.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r-- 16 tchrist       917 Aug 23 07:26 README-gzip
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist       694 Dec  5  1994 README.Des
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2297 May 19 00:59 README.GD
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      3574 Aug 22 16:47 README.Safe
 19213    3 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        2501 Aug 20 09:29 ./AMOSS/SGI-FM-0.1.tar.gz
 19210    7 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        6973 Aug 20 09:30 ./AMOSS/SGI-GL-0.2.tar.gz
 19211    3 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        2538 Aug 20 09:31 ./AMOSS/SGI-SysCalls-0.1.tar.gz
 17396    4 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        3260 Aug 20 22:31 ./DMEGG/SGML-1.01.pm.announce
  7036   75 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       76158 Aug 20 23:33 ./DMEGG/SGMLSpm-1.01.tar.gz
 17397    6 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        5247 Aug 20 22:31 ./NWINT/SHA-1.0.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist    483639 Aug 16 07:50 SNMP-1.3.tgz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     42754 Aug 22 10:19 Safe-b1.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      6415 Aug 15 16:37 SelfLoader.pm
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      4212 Apr 15 17:12 Socket-5.001d.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      4098 Aug 18 07:27 StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     87191 Apr 15 17:23 Sx-1.6.tar.gz
 17404    2 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        1184 Aug 20 22:34 ./FMC/Sx2.1.announce
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     96584 Aug 15 13:11 Sx-2.0-Beta.tar.gz
 17327    8 -rw-r--r--   1 nobody   nogroup      7267 Aug 16 16:12 ./ANDK/Symdump-1.20.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     26245 Aug 15 16:37 Symdump-1.19.shar
  >drwxr-xr-x  2 tchrist       512 Aug 16 17:38 TCL
  >drwxr-xr-x  3 tchrist       512 Aug 25 07:45 TK
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      7612 May 15 21:11 Term-Gnuplot-0.2.tar.Z
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     36701 Aug 17 08:01 Term-ReadLine-0.7.tar.Z
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     41848 Aug 15 12:49 TermReadKey-1.99.tar.Z
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      2853 May 15 21:38 Text-Trie-0.2.tar.Z
  >lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         2 Aug 25 07:51 Tk -> TK
  >-rw-r--r--  2 tchrist     49995 Aug 27 09:40 URL-3.02.pm
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     11102 Apr 15 17:12 Usage-beta.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     16272 Oct 17  1994 cursperl5a6.tar.gz
  >-rwxr-xr-x  1 tchrist     12965 Aug 15 12:52 diagnostics.pm
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      7565 Aug 27 13:47 diagnostics.shar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     62207 Aug 27 09:41 lwp-0.03.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist      9431 Apr 21 12:20 menu.pl.v3.1.announce
  7034   16 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       16192 Aug 20 16:48 ./GBOSS/perl_archie.1.5.tar.Z
  7039   28 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       27969 Aug 27 07:29 ./AGUL/perlvision.tgz
 15756    1 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel         526 Aug 20 23:40 ./KGB/pgperl5-1.1.lsm
 15758    6 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        5838 Aug 20 23:39 ./KGB/pgperl5-1.1.tar.gz
 10390   63 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       64338 Aug 21 03:38 ./MEWP/sybperl-2b2.tar.gz
 13851    9 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel        9040 Aug 21 23:25 ./PMQS/xsubpp-1.92.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  3 tchrist     20893 Aug 25 05:47 modules.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     12314 Aug 17 08:01 perl5db-kit-0.7.tar.gz
  >-rw-r--r--  1 tchrist     92937 Aug 15 17:09 perlmenu.v3.2.tar.Z
  >lrwxrwxrwx  1 tchrist         2 Aug 25 07:51 tk -> TK
  >


From k@anna.mind.de Mon Aug 28 12:24:55 1995
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  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Mon, 28 Aug 1995 07:24:47 -0500
Return-Path: <k@anna.mind.de>
Received: by anna.mind.de (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI)
	 id OAA02644; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:24:55 +0200
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:24:55 +0200
Message-Id: <199508281224.OAA02644@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Cc: peter.gordon@indigo.co.il, "Randal L. Schwartz" <merlyn@teleport.com>
Subject: Re: Perl5 Places of Interest (fwd)
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

Due to a typo in the packrats address the message couldn't be
delivered. Sorry,

andreas


------- Start of forwarded message -------
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 14:10:04 +0200
From: Andreas Koenig <k>
To: peter.gordon@indigo.co.il
CC: perl-packrats.metronet.com, "Randal L. Schwartz" <merlyn@teleport.com>
In-reply-to: <9508280746.AA00664@swamp.indigo.co.il.> (message from Peter
	Gordon on Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:46:40 +0300)
Subject: Re: Perl5 Places of Interest
Reply-to: andreas.koenig@mind.de

  >Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 10:46:40 +0300
  >From: Peter Gordon <peter.gordon@indigo.co.il>
  >
  >
  >A couple of months ago I asked for information regarding where various modules could be found.
  >I compiled the following list which I post from time to time.
  >
  >Could you have a quick look to see if anything is amiss, and then I will ask Randall to post it.

Thank you for your effort, Peter,

but let me suggest to not post the list. It's an extreme example how
information can be processed to death. The original list you were
using was posted by me to the packrats list with the expressed wish
not to give it to the outside world because it was too humble. The way
you postprocessed it is very confusing and makes it very difficult to
read.

Have a look at 

    http://franz.ww.TU-Berlin.DE:80/modulelist/, and
    ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/CPAN/pml/byauthor/, 

join the perl-packrats@metronet.com mailing list, and try to suggest
improvements to what we have there. I append the current list of
packages that are ready to be mirrored from pasteur. I would be happy
if somebody would start mirroring and we could post a list of 5 or 10
mirrors instead of such a confusing list.

andreas


GBARR       AddINC-1.1.tar.gz
GAAS        AFM-1.06.pm.gz
GBARR       AlarmCall-1.1.announce
GBARR       AlarmCall-1.1.tar.gz
JACKS       CallerItem-1.0.tar.gz
LDS         CGI.pm-1.4
LDS         CGI.pm.1.53
LDS         CGI.pm.tar.Z
GAAS        CounterFile-0.6.pm.gz
ILYAZ       cperl-mode.el.1.12
WPS         Curses-a8.tar.gz
GBARR       Date-GetDate-0.01a.tar.gz
TIMB        DBD-Oracle-0.25.tar.Z
TIMB        DBI-0.62.tar.Z
TIMB        dbispec.v06.Z
IANPX       DBZ_File.gz
MICB        Des-perl-a1.tar.gz
MICB        DES.announce
DMR         DProf.tar.gz
GSAR        Dumper
JACKS       DumpStack-1.1.tar.gz
JACKS       EventDriven.freeware.announcement
JACKS       EventDrivenServer-2.1.tar.gz
ILYAZ       ExtUtils-Peek-0.3.tar.Z
TYEMQ       FileKGlob.tar.gz
PMQS        Filter-1.06.tar.gz
LDS         GD.pm.tar.Z
TOMC        GetDate.shar.gz
JACKS       InitializeServer-1.0.tar.gz
KJALB       Ioctl-0.5.tar.Z
JACKS       IPC-SysV.announce
JACKS       IPC_SysV.tar.gz
GAAS        lwp-0.03.tar.gz
GBARR       MailTools-1.02a.tar.gz
ANDK        MakeMaker-4.18.tar.gz
ILYAZ       MathPari_a3.tar.gz
NWINT       MD5-1.1.tar.gz
NWINT       MD5-1.2.1.tar.gz
GAAS        MIME.tar.gz
ANDK        MsqlPerl-1.02.tar.gz
SPIDB       Net-ext-a6.tar.gz
GBARR       Net-FTP-1.01a.tar.gz
RVA         NNTPClient-0.17
ILYAZ       perl5db-kit-0.7.tar.gz
AGUL        perlvision.tgz
GBOSS       perl_archie.1.5.tar.Z
KGB         pgperl5-1.1.lsm
KGB         pgperl5-1.1.tar.gz
JACKS       Prolog-alpha.tar.gz
MICB        Safe-b1.tar.gz
AMOSS       SGI-FM-0.1.tar.gz
AMOSS       SGI-GL-0.2.tar.gz
AMOSS       SGI-SysCalls-0.1.tar.gz
DMEGG       SGML-1.01.pm.announce
DMEGG       SGMLSpm-1.01.tar.gz
NWINT       SHA-1.0.tar.gz
GSM         SNMP-1.3.tgz
JKAST       StatisticsDescriptive-1.1.tar.gz
FMC         Sx-2.0-Beta.tar.gz
FMC         Sx-2.1.tar.gz
FMC         Sx2.1.announce
MEWP        Sybase2b2.announc
MEWP        sybperl-2b2.tar.gz
ANDK        Symdump-1.20.tar.gz
MICB        Tcl-b1.tar.gz
ILYAZ       Term-Gnuplot-0.2.tar.Z
KJALB       Term-Info-1.0.tar.Z
ILYAZ       Term-ReadLine-0.7.tar.Z
KJALB       TermReadKey-1.99.tar.Z
ILYAZ       Text-Trie-0.2.tar.Z
NI-S        Tk-b8.tar.gz
JACKS       UNIVERSAL-1.0.tar.gz
JACKS       Usage-beta.tar.gz
PMQS        xsubpp-1.92.gz


------- End of forwarded message -------

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Mon Aug 28 15:05:39 1995
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To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: tchrist@perl.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: ftp://perl.com/pub/perl/ 
In-Reply-To: Andreas Koenig's message <199508272223.AAA01829@anna.mind.de> of Mon, 28 Aug 95 00:23:21 +0200.
References: <199508272223.AAA01829@anna.mind.de> 
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 95 09:05:39 MDT
Message-Id: <9424.809622339@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

>  26131   11 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       10831 Aug 20 22:41 ./MICB/Des-perl-a1.tar.gz

Nope, I can't carry that unless I want to go to jail.

--tom

From k@anna.mind.de Mon Aug 28 15:30:45 1995
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Received: by anna.mind.de (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI)
	 id RAA02847; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 17:30:45 +0200
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 17:30:45 +0200
Message-Id: <199508281530.RAA02847@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: tchrist@mox.perl.com
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
In-Reply-To: <9424.809622339@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Mon, 28
	Aug 95 09:05:39 MDT)
Subject: Re: ftp://perl.com/pub/perl/
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de


  >From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
  >
  >>  26131   11 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       10831 Aug 20 22:41 ./MICB/Des-perl-a1.tar.gz
  >
  >Nope, I can't carry that unless I want to go to jail.

:-(

That means that automated mirroring to US is a risk for the
maintainer? I thought you have export restrictions. You also have
import restrictions? Not enough Randals conviction? Shhhhhhhh.t...

  >
  >--tom
  >

andreas

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Mon Aug 28 15:33:51 1995
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To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: tchrist@mox.perl.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: ftp://perl.com/pub/perl/ 
In-Reply-To: Andreas Koenig's message <199508281530.RAA02847@anna.mind.de> of Mon, 28 Aug 95 17:30:45 +0200.
References: <199508281530.RAA02847@anna.mind.de> 
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 95 09:33:51 MDT
Message-Id: <10115.809624031@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

>   >From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
>   >
>   >>  26131   11 -rw-r--r--   1 root     wheel       10831 Aug 20 22:41 ./MICB/Des-perl-a1.tar.gz
>   >
>   >Nope, I can't carry that unless I want to go to jail.

> :-(

> That means that automated mirroring to US is a risk for the
> maintainer? I thought you have export restrictions. You also have
> import restrictions? Not enough Randals conviction? Shhhhhhhh.t...

anyone US citizen mirroring sites with the des or pgp stuff is likely to 
be screwed over by the feds.  they can't export it.  if they mirror
it, they're letting others get at it.

btw, your site is slower than mine!

--tom

From k@anna.mind.de Mon Aug 28 16:28:43 1995
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	 id SAA02929; Mon, 28 Aug 1995 18:28:43 +0200
Date: Mon, 28 Aug 1995 18:28:43 +0200
Message-Id: <199508281628.SAA02929@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: tchrist@mox.perl.com
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
In-Reply-To: <10115.809624031@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Mon, 28
	Aug 95 09:33:51 MDT)
Subject: Re: ftp://perl.com/pub/perl/
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

  >
  >anyone US citizen mirroring sites with the des or pgp stuff is likely to 
  >be screwed over by the feds.  they can't export it.  if they mirror
  >it, they're letting others get at it.

Of course! I see. %&*%%!*

  >
  >btw, your site is slower than mine!

You should mirror from pasteur! Pasteur comes every full hour and
takes away what I have gathered in the meantime. Or do you say pasteur
seems slow to you?

  >
  >--tom
  >

andreas

From k@anna.mind.de Thu Sep 14 20:26:47 1995
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 22:26:47 +0200
Message-Id: <199509142026.WAA13823@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Cc: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Subject: test (Please ignore)

Is the list alive?


Regards,
andreas

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Thu Sep 14 21:29:52 1995
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Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 00:29:52 +0300
Message-Id: <199509142129.AAA12602@alpha.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Subject: test (Please ignore)
In-Reply-To: <199509142026.WAA13823@anna.mind.de>
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Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


There are some problems in the packrats list, I get errors
from metronet ("would loop back into itself" or something equally
mysterious) whenever I try to send something.

++jhi;

From kjahds@kjahds.com Thu Sep 14 21:33:43 1995
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 17:33:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, Bill Middleton <wjm@metronet.com>
Subject: Re: test (Please ignore)
In-Reply-To: <199509142026.WAA13823@anna.mind.de>
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Thu, 14 Sep 1995, Andreas Koenig wrote:

> Is the list alive?

Testing, testing... I can here you. Can you here me?

> Regards,
> andreas

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From wjm  Thu Sep 14 17:36:23 1995
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Message-Id: <199509142235.AA29591@metronet.com>
From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Thu, 14 Sep 1995 17:35:56 -0500
In-Reply-To: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
       "Re: test (Please ignore)" (Sep 14,  5:33pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
Subject: Re: test (Please ignore)
Cc: perl-packrats


Since it's an open list, I cant stop folks from 
subscribing with things like:

subscribe perl-packrats John Louis Bonehead Newbie IV

Instead of their email address, which majordomo writes right into 
the list file, and sendmail hangs on it.  

Sorry folks, I'll try to watch it a little closer.

Bill

From gmarzot@BayNetworks.com Thu Sep 14 23:39:22 1995
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Date: Thu, 14 Sep 95 19:39:22 EDT
Message-Id: <9509142339.AA04577@BayNetworks.com>
From: gmarzot@BayNetworks.com (Joe Marzot)
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: Guy Streeter <streeter@ingr.com>, Joe Marzot <gmarzot@BayNetworks.com>,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com, snmpperl@smurfland.cit.buffalo.edu
Subject: Re: SNMPSNMP
In-Reply-To: <199509141834.UAA13672@anna.mind.de>
References: <199509141834.UAA13672@anna.mind.de>
Reply-To: gmarzot@BayNetworks.com


Andreas,

As I understand it, Guy's implementation of snmperl is for perl4. Joel
and Jeff Murphy at smurphland ported this implementation to perl5.
According to what they said the port was done without a great deal of
modification to the perl4 implementation.

I have tried to follow the perl5 guidelines for an extension module and
provided an OO interface using Session as the primary object on which
one can call set/get/getNext methods. ( I still have yet to incorporate
the suggestions you gave me for the Makefile.PL but plan on doing it
real soon - so the cmu headers can be located on the target machine as
opposed to bundling them with the extension)

here is Joel and Jeff's announcement and location of their port
> From: jcmurphy@acsu.buffalo.edu (Jeff Murphy)
> Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc,comp.protocols.snmp,comp.dcom.net-management
> Subject: perl5 + cmu snmpv2 available
> Date: 1 Aug 1995 21:49:24 GMT
> Summary: snmpv2 extension available for perl5
> 
> a port of the snmpperl package has been done for perl5 and cmu's snmpv2
> library. 
> 
>         http://smurfland.cit.buffalo.edu/NetMan/index.html
> 		look in the archives
> or
> 	ftp://smurfland.cit.buffalo.edu/pub/utils/SNMP/

In terms of which(both?) modules should be advertised in the module list
I would yeild to the collective wisdom. Certainly I have a personal bias
to my own implementaion though :-) - I have'nt yet received any
feed-back but I have given out a number of pointers to the package so
far. I anyone has used please send bugs/suggestions/requests etc.

the latest version can be fetched.

ftp::/ftp.wellfleet.com/pub/gmarzot/SNMP-1.4.tar.gz

I plan on actively supporting this version for some time as I have
gotten some clients internally interested in it.

-GSM


From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Fri Sep 15 00:36:45 1995
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To: k@anna.mind.de, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: test (Please ignore)
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, wjm@metronet.com
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 01:36:45 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
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> From @mail.metronet.com:jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Fri Sep 15 01:20:40 1995
> Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 00:29:52 +0300
> From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
> Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
> To: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, Bill Middleton <wjm@metronet.com>
> Subject: test (Please ignore)
> In-Reply-To: <199509142026.WAA13823@anna.mind.de>
> References: <199509142026.WAA13823@anna.mind.de>
> Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
> Mime-Version: 1.0
> Content-Type> : > text/plain> ; > charset=ISO-8859-1> 
> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
> 
> 
> There are some problems in the packrats list, I get errors
> from metronet ("would loop back into itself" or something equally
> mysterious) whenever I try to send something.
> 
> ++jhi;
> 
Your message came through to me okay.

Tim.

From k@anna.mind.de Fri Sep 15 07:34:01 1995
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	 id JAA14480; Fri, 15 Sep 1995 09:34:01 +0200
Date: Fri, 15 Sep 1995 09:34:01 +0200
Message-Id: <199509150734.JAA14480@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: gmarzot@BayNetworks.com
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, streeter@ingr.com, gmarzot@BayNetworks.com,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com, snmpperl@smurfland.cit.buffalo.edu
In-Reply-To: <9509142339.AA04577@BayNetworks.com> (gmarzot@BayNetworks.com)
Subject: Re: SNMPSNMP
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> Joe Marzot <gmarzot@BayNetworks.com> writes:

     > Andreas,

     > As I understand it, Guy's implementation of snmperl is for
     > perl4. Joel and Jeff Murphy at smurphland ported this
     > implementation to perl5.  According to what they said the port
     > was done without a great deal of modification to the perl4
     > implementation.

Ahh, *that's* the Jules&Jim version, I'm sorry, I only read the README
file, signed by Guy, not the README.perl5 by the Murphy brs.

     > In terms of which(both?) modules should be advertised in the
     > module list I would yeild to the collective wisdom. Certainly I
     > have a personal bias to my own implementaion though :-)

It's rather clear to me, that everything can stay as it is. I'd
suggest, that you add a note to your README which explains the
relation of the packages. Would also be nice, if Jeff & Joel could
document it in their package.

     > have'nt yet received any feed-back but I have given out a
     > number of pointers to the package so far. I anyone has used
     > please send bugs/suggestions/requests etc.

I haven't come around to it yet.

     > the latest version can be fetched.

     > ftp::/ftp.wellfleet.com/pub/gmarzot/SNMP-1.4.tar.gz

It's on the way to the module list server.

     > I plan on actively supporting this version for some time as I
     > have gotten some clients internally interested in it.

Great!

     > -GSM


Thanks for clarification and for the new release,
andreas

From karenn@sc.harris.com Fri Sep 15 13:46:20 1995
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From: karenn@sc.harris.com (Karen Noll Account)
Message-Id: <9509151346.AA14657@romac.harris.COM>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Perl for Windows

Hi,

Does anyone know a way to launch Win32s Windows applications from a Dos command line using

Perl 5.0?

Karen

From nandu@cis.ufl.edu Sun Sep 17 22:07:50 1995
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From: <nandu@cis.ufl.edu>
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Reply-To: japh@cis.ufl.edu
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: UF's Perl archive
Cc: japh@cis.ufl.edu

I am the new (as of about two months ago) Perl archivist at the University
of Florida.  I'm in the process of cleaning up our site, and I just wanted
to let you know a few things:

   o As of tonight (17 September 1995) we will be replacing our archive
     with a mirror of CPAN from ftp.funet.fi.  

   o Since CPAN presently mirrors the FAQ from us we will continue to
     archive it.  However, I noticed that our FAQ hasn't been updated since
     July, and I was wondering where I should get it (if I should be
     getting it some place other than the newsgroups)...

   o We will also continue to archive the newsgroups, but due to limited
     disk space we can keep only the last 6 months available.  (We do have
     tape backups, though, so we can restore old news articles if needed.)

Nandu Shah                                                  japh@cis.ufl.edu
UF/CISE Perl Guy                                http://www.cis.ufl.edu/perl/

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Mon Sep 18 06:10:17 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: UF's Perl archive
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Thus spake nandu@cis.ufl.edu (Nandu Shah):

: I am the new (as of about two months ago) Perl archivist at the University
: of Florida.  I'm in the process of cleaning up our site, and I just wanted
: to let you know a few things:
: 
:    o As of tonight (17 September 1995) we will be replacing our archive
:      with a mirror of CPAN from ftp.funet.fi.  

Gasp. CPAN is spreading like a plague... :-) A daily mirror? Or a weekly one?

:    o Since CPAN presently mirrors the FAQ from us we will continue to
:      archive it.  However, I noticed that our FAQ hasn't been updated since
:      July, and I was wondering where I should get it (if I should be
:      getting it some place other than the newsgroups)...

A good question, this one. Where doth the Real FAQ live? perl.com?

:    o We will also continue to archive the newsgroups, but due to limited
:      disk space we can keep only the last 6 months available.  (We do have
:      tape backups, though, so we can restore old news articles if needed.)

I have a mirror of this ufl c.l.p* and I do not do deletes. Does this
6 months include doing "gzip --best"? And after, say, 3 months doing
a "gunzip + tar the-last-three-months + gzip --best"?

++jhi;

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Tue Sep 19 13:05:05 1995
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To: hedlund@best.com
Subject: Re: Who sent me 'selfloader'?
Cc: js@biu.icnet.uk, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:05:05 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
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> From: Marc Hedlund <hedlund@best.com>
> 
> >> I didn't send it to you, but it is available from
> >> <ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/JACKS.html>.  See also
> >> Devel::SelfStubber, listed directly beneath it.
> >>
> >Jack Shirazi developed it with a nudge from me. I think Jack's not
> >got ready access to the net right now so count me as it's maintainer
> >meanwhile.
> 
Having said that I saw a message from Jack today. Sadly I've deleted it since
so I'm CC'ing this to his old address in case he's still there.

> Okay then... ;)  I looked for it at CPAN and at Andreas' module-list server
> and couldn't find it under your name or Jack's -- maybe add it to Andreas'
> server?  If it doesn't make it into the main distribution, it would be good
> to be able to say, "look for it at CPAN."  (the next CGI::Response uses
> it.)
> 
Yes, it ought to be there. I've lost track of what's happening with CPAN
recently. I don't know what the relationship between CPAN and Andreas's
'Module Server' is.

> Thanks,
> Marc <hedlund@best.com>
> 
Tim.

From hedlund@best.com Wed Sep 20 02:59:54 1995
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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 19:59:54 -0700
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
From: hedlund@best.com (Marc Hedlund)
Subject: Re: Who sent me 'selfloader'?
Cc: js@biu.icnet.uk, perl-packrats@metronet.com, k@anna.mind.de

At 6:05 AM 9/19/95, Tim Bunce wrote:
>> Okay then... ;)  I looked for it at CPAN and at Andreas' module-list server
>> and couldn't find it under your name or Jack's -- maybe add it to Andreas'
>> server?  If it doesn't make it into the main distribution, it would be good
>> to be able to say, "look for it at CPAN."  (the next CGI::Response uses
>> it.)
>>
>Yes, it ought to be there. I've lost track of what's happening with CPAN
>recently. I don't know what the relationship between CPAN and Andreas's
>'Module Server' is.

See <URL:http://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/modulelist/> for info about Andreas'
module server.  He's worked out a really super-cool way of allowing you to
upload a file to your directory of CPAN if you can give a URL where that
file can be found.  (Maybe you all know this already.)  Anything you upload
to Andreas' server gets mirrored to the mod/pml/byauthor/[your initials]
directory of CPAN.

Marc


From wjm  Tue Sep 19 22:07:38 1995
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From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 22:06:27 -0500
In-Reply-To: Gopher Admin <gopher>
       "Perl5 WWW page comment" (Sep 14,  5:19am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: janicej@beta.delphi.com
Subject: Re: Perl5 WWW page comment
Cc: perl-packrats

} Subject: Perl5 WWW page comment
} 
} 
} 
} fullname=Jan Jarrell
} address=janicej@beta.delphi.com
} callback=yes
} comment=Forgive me if I vent some of my frustration with the whole
} perl community in general on you personally. Believe me..
} I don't mean it as a personal slam.


No problem.  You raise some interesting issues.

I'm forwarding this onto the archivists group.

Thanks for taking the time to vent reasonably.  

Bill

} 
} The one thing I have found that every perl page I have
} encountered has in common is it's inpracticality and it's
} assumption that the people they are speaking to understand
} the vague and esoteric language used to describe the perl
} environment.
} 
} I want to learn perl. But I've found very little that would
} help me do this on the perl pages I've visited.. and I've
} visited a lot of them.
} 
} First.. there are directories given that say they are perl
} source. There are no explanations of how to use this source,
} what one needs to download to use perl, what the 7000 patches
} that are listed MEAN, how one installs this source once
} one has it.. the list goes on. Nearly every program I have
} downloaded on the internet uses pkzip and unzip. Perl is
} always compressed with tar.gz which is not as generally
} known or understood. yet no explanation of how to use these
} compression/decompression programs is ever mentioned.. let
} alone any link for where to download them provided.
} 
} Overall.. I have not found even one perl page which would
} walk a new user through the process of acquiring perl,
} installing perl, or using perl.
} 
} The main thing that the perl pages I've visited seem to
} promote is the ego of the persons using the language and
} developing the pages. Frankly.. the rule of thumb seems to
} be to be as vague and un-understandable as is humanly
} possible.
} 
} I don't say this to criticize you personally. I say this
} because there is a real NEED for someone who is
} knowledgable in this area to stop throwing language around
} and really TALK to new users who have no IDEA what this
} environment is all about but who sincerely want to learn
} it.
} 
} If you are someone who really knows this stuff.. maybe it's
} a need you could fill.
} 
} Thanks for listening.
} 
} JJ
} 
} End of entry
}-- End of excerpt from Gopher Admin


From kjahds@kjahds.com Wed Sep 20 03:49:43 1995
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Date: Tue, 19 Sep 1995 23:49:43 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Bill Middleton <wjm@metronet.com>
Cc: janicej@beta.delphi.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: Perl5 WWW page comment
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On Tue, 19 Sep 1995, Bill Middleton wrote:

> } Subject: Perl5 WWW page comment
> } 
> } 
> } 
> } fullname=Jan Jarrell
> } address=janicej@beta.delphi.com
> } callback=yes
> } comment=Forgive me if I vent some of my frustration with the whole
> } perl community in general on you personally. Believe me..
> } I don't mean it as a personal slam.
> 
> 
> No problem.  You raise some interesting issues.
> 
> I'm forwarding this onto the archivists group.
> 
> Thanks for taking the time to vent reasonably.  

Indeed, a useful complaint. 

Jan, if I may, I'd like to point out the most important point that you 
have missed (and the information that the perl archives are definitely 
lacking): Perl comes from the Unix system-administrators world, and in 
that world some things are common knowledge. Among these are how to undo 
.gz files (run the through gunzip) and how to undo .tar files (run then 
through tar xvf). But even more important are the unspoken rules that one 
normally upgrades to the most recent patch level, patches are installed 
via the 'patch' program, etc.

Given the fact that perl is catching on as a general purpose language on 
various operating systems (and in special purpose areas, like CGI, which 
people can get into without going through sys-admin school) there does 
need to be some sort of introduction to using perl for non-Unix users.

You might like to purchase (or borrow) Randal Schwarz's book 
_Learning_Perl_, published by O'Reilley and Associates. This is the 
standard introductory course on the language, although I'm not sure how 
well it will work if you have very little Unix background.

Quoting Janice a bit:

> } I don't say this to criticize you personally. I say this
> } because there is a real NEED for someone who is
> } knowledgable in this area to stop throwing language around
> } and really TALK to new users who have no IDEA what this
> } environment is all about but who sincerely want to learn
> } it.

It really isn't like this, believe me. Perl just happens to have it's own
culture, and you happen not to be familiar with it. No offense is intended,
it's just that a certain level of knowledge and skill is (perhaps
unconciously) assumed. Just like it's assumed you can read English. Try 
picking up an issue of C++ Journal, and you'll have the same problem of 
trying to learn something new from a guide that was never intended as a 
tutorial in the basics.

Very little of Perl's environment really has to do with Perl. Most of it is
Unix, and I agree that if you aren't familiar with Unix, then most of this
will seem very intimidating. While Perl is an excellent language for mucking
about with text data, I doubt very much that it's a good first language for
people not willing to take the (considerable) plunge that using a Unix-like
operating system requires. Some things in Unix are nearly as basic as turning
on the computer in the first place, and if you haven't had the chance to
learn those, then you're stuck until you do. 

Of course, part of the problem has always been one of contact. If the people
who are using Perl don't come in from the front door (Usenet, I suppose) or
don't know about FAQ lists (lists of Frequently Asked Questions, and more
importantly, their answers), or who don't know to go looking in the bookstore
for more information. If a person manages to side-step (by accident, of
course) all of the informational "trip-lines" that have been set up, what 
can we do? 

Now it would seem that the Web is the new front door, and new trip-lines 
have to be installed.

Jan, given you're complete in-expertise in using Perl, how about a 
checklist of things that you don't understand? I'm sure that would help 
us old Perl and Unix fogies remember what we've forgotten we remember.

After that, Bill (and the rest on packrats): how about somebody writing 
up a _simple_ (bloody simple, mind you) guide to using perl from a new 
users perspective, with the new outlook that they _will_ know how to use 
FTP and HTTP, because their web browser provides it? Once we have that, 
putting that in as the first entry on the various web sites would help 
folks like Janice.

> } Thanks for listening.

No problem.

> } JJ

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)



From nandu@cis.ufl.edu Wed Sep 20 06:09:08 1995
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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 02:09:08 -0400
From: <nandu@cis.ufl.edu>
Message-Id: <199509200609.CAA23170@native.cis.ufl.edu>
Reply-To: japh@cis.ufl.edu
To: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Subject: Re: UF's Perl archive
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com

---> Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi> sic scripsit:
>Gasp. CPAN is spreading like a plague... :-) A daily mirror? Or a weekly one?
-1z
Well, since we still seem to be a fairly important site, I was
thinking daily.  Will this be a problem?  The mirror is currently set
to run at 3:30 am (7:30 or 8:30 am GMT, depending on the time of
year).  Do you prefer another time?

>I have a mirror of this ufl c.l.p* and I do not do deletes. Does this
>6 months include doing "gzip --best"? And after, say, 3 months doing
>a "gunzip + tar the-last-three-months + gzip --best"?

I still need to fix this, since it's in a state of some disarray, but
here's what I have in mind:

   o All articles from the current month go in
     comp.lang.perl.*/thismonth

   o On the first of each month, all the articles in
     comp.lang.perl.*/thismonth get tarred into
     comp.lang.perl.*/[yr][mo].tar, and the tar file gets 
     gzipped (--best)

   o Also on the first of each month, the oldest
     comp.lang.perl.*/*.tar.gz will be deleted (when I set up all the
     cron jobs, I'll manually delete all but the last 6 months for
     each group) .

   o And if I ever get this far, I'll write a script to index the
     articles each month; this index will also go into thismonth/ and
     will be tarred & gzipped along with the articles.  That way I can
     have a nifty web interface to search the clp* archives.  Don't
     expect this in less than a month ;)  Also, if such a beast (or
     something similar) already exists, please let me know.

Sound good?

Nandu Shah                                                  japh@cis.ufl.edu
UF/CISE Perl Guy                                http://www.cis.ufl.edu/perl/

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Wed Sep 20 09:08:33 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: japh@cis.ufl.edu
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
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> Well, since we still seem to be a fairly important site, I was
> thinking daily.  Will this be a problem?  The mirror is currently set
> to run at 3:30 am (7:30 or 8:30 am GMT, depending on the time of
> year).  Do you prefer another time?

I agree, a daily one is the best choice. ftp.funet.fi is pretty evenly
loaded (when the Americans sleep the Europeans ftp, when the Americans
start to ftp, the Europeans go to sleep...) so the time of the day
does not matter that much. But still...could you manage one or two
hours earlier? That way the mirroring would hit funet at very early
morning Finnish time, we are at UTC+2. (+2 as in arithmetics,
not as in UNIX timezones...)

Your c.l.p* plans sound fine for me, except for one little nit:

:      comp.lang.perl.*/[yr][mo].tar, and the tar file gets 

			YYYYMM

Let us not fall into the COBOL trap :-)

++jhi;

From k@anna.mind.de Wed Sep 20 13:34:23 1995
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Date: Wed, 20 Sep 1995 15:34:23 +0200
Message-Id: <199509201334.PAA03205@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: hedlund@best.com, js@biu.icnet.uk, perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9509191408.ab23702@post.demon.co.uk> (message from Tim Bunce on
	Tue, 19 Sep 1995 14:05:05 +0100)
Subject: Re: Who sent me 'selfloader'?
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk> writes:

    Tim> Yes, it ought to be there. I've lost track of what's
    Tim> happening with CPAN recently. I don't know what the
    Tim> relationship between CPAN and Andreas's 'Module Server' is.

Time for an intermediate report where I stand.

Uploading
---------
Uploading of files is nicely automated, so an author can do an upload
without my intervention. I won't do automated mirroring myself before
I can rely on Net::FTP.pm or LWP::Protocol::ftp.pm.

Mirroring into CPAN happens hourly, and within a day the tree below
mod/pml/byauthor/ within CPAN reaches these sites:

      ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/ 
      ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/CPAN/pml/byauthor/ 
      ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/ 
      ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/perl5.0/CPAN/pml/byauthor/ 
      ftp://janus.sedl.org/pub/mirrors/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/ 

Who Is
------
A cronjob writes the file byauthor/00whois.html daily.

I would like to see an ascii dump of this document as part of the
modulelist, replacing the current whois section. That is why I
formatted it exactly the same way.

The three elements of a line in this file are hypertext links

  MGH    Marc Hedlund <hedlund@best.com>
                      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^mailto
         ^^^^^^^^^^^^home page
  ^^^directory only if files are available

HTML modulelist
---------------
I do have a quite nice parser for the modulelist which tells me the
differences to my database. The parser has an as_string method which
returns the modulelist exactly as it is including empty lines, but
it corrects a few errors. The asHTML method still needs some work.

I intend to make the html version available within the
modulelistserver similar to the 00whois.html file. Maybe both the
whois file and the then-to-be modulelist file should move up one
directory, so we have

  pml/
    00modulelist.html
    00whois.html
    byauthor/
      ADESC/
      ....

The formatting of the modulelist should now, please, only be altered
cautiously. I would also like to propose a few changes to the
formatting, if you have time and are interested, but this is not
important now.

New Users
---------
You and I can enter new users into the database, thusly preventing
duplicate userids. I would like to invite you, Tim, to actually use
this form. With the POST program from the lwp distribution you can do
that without a browser. Let me know, if that is feasible for you. Or
put otherwise: _I_ would sometimes like to invite people to put their
credentials into the database (recently an opengl module writer and
the xbase guy), but I do not want to do it without your consensus. Let
me know, how you would like it.

New Modules
-----------
I guess, it would be inefficient to enter new modules directly to the
database. I haven't yet prepared an interface to do it, I prefer to
parse the modulelist and update manually.


Regards,
andreas

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Thu Sep 21 23:27:10 1995
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To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: Who sent me 'selfloader'?
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:27:10 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9509220024.aa16392@post.mail.demon.net>


> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
>     Tim> Yes, it ought to be there. I've lost track of what's
>     Tim> happening with CPAN recently. I don't know what the
>     Tim> relationship between CPAN and Andreas's 'Module Server' is.
> 
> Time for an intermediate report where I stand.
> 
Thanks. Any word from Jarkko on all this?

> Uploading
> ---------
> Uploading of files is nicely automated, so an author can do an upload
> without my intervention. I won't do automated mirroring myself before
> I can rely on Net::FTP.pm or LWP::Protocol::ftp.pm.
> 
> Mirroring into CPAN happens hourly, and within a day the tree below
> mod/pml/byauthor/ within CPAN reaches these sites:
> 
>       ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/ 
>       ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/CPAN/pml/byauthor/ 
>       ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/ 
>       ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/perl5.0/CPAN/pml/byauthor/ 
>       ftp://janus.sedl.org/pub/mirrors/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/ 
> 
It would be nice if we could remove the inconsistency in the path
below CPAN (mod/ vs no mod/).

What's the path/sequence of mirrors? Who mirrors who?

> Who Is
> ------
> A cronjob writes the file byauthor/00whois.html daily.
> 
> I would like to see an ascii dump of this document as part of the
> modulelist, replacing the current whois section. That is why I
> formatted it exactly the same way.
> 
Arrange a cron job to send the ascii version to me on the 6th and 21nd
of each month and I'll give it a go.

> HTML modulelist
> ---------------
> I do have a quite nice parser for the modulelist which tells me the
> differences to my database. The parser has an as_string method which
> returns the modulelist exactly as it is including empty lines, but
> it corrects a few errors. The asHTML method still needs some work.
> 
Sending me a copy of the differences on the 6th and 21nd of each month
would be a good start.

> The formatting of the modulelist should now, please, only be altered
> cautiously. I would also like to propose a few changes to the
> formatting, if you have time and are interested, but this is not
> important now.
> 
Okay.

> New Users
> ---------
> You and I can enter new users into the database, thusly preventing
> duplicate userids. I would like to invite you, Tim, to actually use
> this form.

How does using the form differ from my just adding the names to the
module list and you parsing it?

> With the POST program from the lwp distribution you can do
> that without a browser. Let me know, if that is feasible for you. Or
> put otherwise: _I_ would sometimes like to invite people to put their
> credentials into the database (recently an opengl module writer and
> the xbase guy), but I do not want to do it without your consensus. Let
> me know, how you would like it.
> 
For the time being I'd rather remain the 'moderator' of the list.

Some people here may know that I sometimes (ab)use the role to get
people to reconsider the naming of their modules and sometimes even the
overall design before I add them to the list. This happens behind the
scenes by email.

While it's a major pain for both myself and them I think the end result
is worth it (many modules in the list don't have their original names)
and I'd like to continue for as long as I have the time and people
still don't apply the guidelines written in the list.

> New Modules
> -----------
> I guess, it would be inefficient to enter new modules directly to the
> database. I haven't yet prepared an interface to do it, I prefer to
> parse the modulelist and update manually.
> 
Sounds good. It's not as if we're drowning in new modules every week!
 
> Regards,
> andreas
>
Thanks for all your hard work Andreas. It looks very good.

Tim. 

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Thu Sep 21 23:48:21 1995
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          Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:48:21 +0100
To: jhi@snakemail.hut.fi, japh@cis.ufl.edu
Subject: Re: UF's Perl archive
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:48:21 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
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> From: nandu@cis.ufl.edu
> 
> >I have a mirror of this ufl c.l.p* and I do not do deletes. Does this
> >6 months include doing "gzip --best"? And after, say, 3 months doing
> >a "gunzip + tar the-last-three-months + gzip --best"?
> 
> I still need to fix this, since it's in a state of some disarray, but
> here's what I have in mind:
> 
>    o All articles from the current month go in
>      comp.lang.perl.*/thismonth
> 
>    o On the first of each month, all the articles in
>      comp.lang.perl.*/thismonth get tarred into
>      comp.lang.perl.*/[yr][mo].tar, and the tar file gets 
>      gzipped (--best)
> 
>    o Also on the first of each month, the oldest
>      comp.lang.perl.*/*.tar.gz will be deleted (when I set up all the
>      cron jobs, I'll manually delete all but the last 6 months for
>      each group) .
> 
>    o And if I ever get this far, I'll write a script to index the
>      articles each month; this index will also go into thismonth/ and
>      will be tarred & gzipped along with the articles.  That way I can
>      have a nifty web interface to search the clp* archives.  Don't
>      expect this in less than a month ;)  Also, if such a beast (or
>      something similar) already exists, please let me know.
> 
> Sound good?
> 
Some thoughts...

On the first of the month there will be little available to read as
plain text since the previous month has just been zipped and little
has arrived for this month yet. That's not ideal. At least keep
one whole previous month in uncompressed form.

Monthly tars will be big and unwieldy for people the deal with. The
index would help here but a month of c.l.p.m is still a large archive
to fetch in order to find, say, one thread.

I'd like to suggest an alternative scheme...

Archive each message into a per-thread file. You could name the file
using the subject line. Append all messages with the same subject line
(ignoring a 'Re: ' etc) to the same file.

This way you'll end up with a directory with filenames like:

	How_can_I_get_my_own_hostname_in_Perl_program
	Selective_forwarding_of_mail
	Parsing_lines_with_double-quotes

which are *much* more useful to anyone trying to find information
on a particular topic.

Thread files can be selected for taring based on their last-modified
date. That way long running threads won't get split across tar files.

If the long file names are not practical (sanitising the characters may
be a problem for example) then use abstract names, such as your local
message number of the first message in the thread, and keep the subject
in a separate ascii index file. The important concept here is that the
archive is thread based.

Tim.

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Fri Sep 22 00:25:38 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Reference to CPAN in the next Module List
Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 01:25:38 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id:  <9509220123.aa26969@post.mail.demon.net>

The next Module List (to be posted on the 25th) will say:
---

Where Are The Modules Kept?
 
A Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) of mirrored FTP sites is
being developed. Try one of these CPAN sites first:
 
  ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/ 
  ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/CPAN/pml/byauthor/ 
  ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/ 
  ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/perl5.0/CPAN/pml/byauthor/ 
  ftp://janus.sedl.org/pub/mirrors/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/ 
 
All the files under each of the directories listed above should be
identical at all these sites since they are all automatically  
maintained mirrors of the master CPAN site. Please use which ever
site is 'nearest' you.
 
If you can't find what you want, or wish to check that what you've
found is the latest version, you can contact the person associated with
the module.  Contact details are given at the start of Part 4. 
 
I don't record per-module archive addresses because it would take more
time and effort than I can spare. At some point in the future this list
will be web-ified and module maintainers will be able to maintain their
own entries.

---

and 

---

2.9 How to release and distribute a module.
 
   It's good idea to post an announcement of the availability of your
   module (or the module itself if small) to the comp.lang.perl.announce
   Usenet newsgroup.  This will at least ensure very wide once-off
   distribution.
 
   If possible you should place the module into a major ftp archive and
   include details of it's location in your announcement.
 
   Some notes about ftp archives: Please use a long descriptive file
   name which includes the version number. Most incoming directories
   will not be readable/listable, i.e., you won't be able to see your
   file after uploading it. Remember to send your email notification
   message as soon as possible after uploading else your file may get
   deleted automatically. Allow time for the file to be processed
   and/or check the file has been processed before announcing its
   location.
 
   Some FTP Archives for Perl Modules:

   Upload to: ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/incoming
   Notify:    Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>

   Upload to: ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/incoming ?
   Notify:    spp@psa.pencom.com (Stephen P Potter)

   Please remember to send me an updated entry for the Module list!

---

and

---

3) Comprehensive Perl Archive Network Sites
 
    ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN
    ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/CPAN
    ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/CPAN
    ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/perl5.0
    ftp://janus.sedl.org/pub/mirrors/CPAN

4) Other Perl Archive Sites

    ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/perl
    ftp://coombs.anu.edu.au/pub/perl
    ftp://ftp.cbi.tamucc.edu/pub/duff/Perl
    ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/perl
    ftp://ftp.khoros.unm.edu/pub/perl
    ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl
    ftp://ftp.uu.net/languages/perl
    ftp://ftp.wpi.edu/perl5
    ftp://ftp.zrz.tu-berlin.de/pub/unix/perl
    ftp://perl.com/pub/perl
    ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk/packages/perl
    ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk/packages/perl5
    ftp://sungear.mame.mu.oz.au/pub/perl
 
---

Please suggest any changes that might be needed.

Thanks.

Tim.

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Fri Sep 22 10:28:49 1995
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Date: Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:28:49 +0300
Message-Id: <199509221028.NAA18714@delta.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: Who sent me 'selfloader'?
In-Reply-To: <9509220024.aa16392@post.mail.demon.net>
References: <9509220024.aa16392@post.mail.demon.net>
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
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 > It would be nice if we could remove the inconsistency in the path
 > below CPAN (mod/ vs no mod/).

I am 105% behind mod/ because that is the CPAN way...pml/ went online
before the CPAN/ and therefore I adopted pml/ (Perl Module List, I presume)
under the mod/ (modules aka extensions).

In short:	CPAN/mod/	is the CPAN
		mod/		is the 'bare' pml/

 > What's the path/sequence of mirrors? Who mirrors who?

franz is the pml master and pasteur mirrors franz.
funet is the CPAN master and mirrors franz.
funet CPAN is mirrored at least by janus and cis.
I don't know about ruu but I guess it is 'just' the pml.

++jhi;

From k@anna.mind.de Mon Sep 25 10:44:16 1995
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	 id LAA01450; Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:44:16 +0100
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:44:16 +0100
Message-Id: <199509251044.LAA01450@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <199509221028.NAA18714@delta.hut.fi> (message from Jarkko
	Hietaniemi on Fri, 22 Sep 1995 13:28:49 +0300)
Subject: Re: Who sent me 'selfloader'?
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

> 
>  > It would be nice if we could remove the inconsistency in the path
>  > below CPAN (mod/ vs no mod/).
> 
> I am 105% behind mod/ because that is the CPAN way...pml/ went online
> before the CPAN/ and therefore I adopted pml/ (Perl Module List, I presume)
> under the mod/ (modules aka extensions).
> 

pml indeed stands for Perl Module List. The byauthor three was
introduced to have room for a bymodule tree eventually. I don't think,
a bymodule tree makes sense. We have the byauthor/00whois.html file
and -- tadaam -- byauthor/00modlist.html (since an hour ago). Please
check it out.

I'd like to move the 00 files one directory up (I have to rewrite them
in order to have sane links in them). Tell me 'go ahead' and I'll do it.

> In short:	CPAN/mod/	is the CPAN
> 		  mod/		is the 'bare' pml/
> 
>  > What's the path/sequence of mirrors? Who mirrors who?
> 
> franz is the pml master and pasteur mirrors franz.
> funet is the CPAN master and mirrors franz.
> funet CPAN is mirrored at least by janus and cis.
> I don't know about ruu but I guess it is 'just' the pml.

Henk Penning from ruu told me, he is mirroring daily the pml tree.

> 
> ++jhi;
> 

andreas

From k@anna.mind.de Mon Sep 25 10:58:01 1995
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:58:01 +0100
Message-Id: <199509251058.LAA01505@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9509220123.aa26969@post.mail.demon.net> (message from Tim Bunce
	on Fri, 22 Sep 1995 01:25:38 +0100)
Subject: Re: Reference to CPAN in the next Module List
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk> writes:

    Tim> The next Module List (to be posted on the 25th) will say: ---

    Tim> Where Are The Modules Kept?
 
    Tim> A Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) of mirrored FTP
    Tim> sites is being developed. Try one of these CPAN sites first:
 
    Tim>
    Tim> ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/
    Tim> ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/CPAN/pml/byauthor/
    Tim> ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/
    Tim> ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/perl5.0/CPAN/pml/byauthor/
    Tim> ftp://janus.sedl.org/pub/mirrors/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/

My 'pml' homepage currently puts it that way (subject to daily changes):

      Complete CPAN Server have the mod/pml/byauthor/ directory below 
          ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/ 
          ftp://ftp.delphi.com/pub/mirrors/packages/perl/CPAN/ 
          ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/CPAN/ 
          ftp://janus.sedl.org/pub/mirrors/CPAN/ 
      byauthor tree only 
          ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/CPAN/pml/byauthor/ 
          ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/perl5.0/CPAN/pml/byauthor/ 


    Tim> All the files under each of the directories listed above
    Tim> should be identical at all these sites since they are all
    Tim> automatically maintained mirrors of the master CPAN
    Tim> site. Please use which ever site is 'nearest' you.
 
    Tim> If you can't find what you want, or wish to check that what
    Tim> you've found is the latest version, you can contact the
    Tim> person associated with the module.  Contact details are given
    Tim> at the start of Part 4.
 
    Tim> I don't record per-module archive addresses because it would
    Tim> take more time and effort than I can spare. At some point in
    Tim> the future this list will be web-ified and module maintainers
    Tim> will be able to maintain their own entries.

Done! Webified version is 00modlist.html (currently in the byauthor/
directory). The last sentence should now be reworded, e.g.

    You should find a webified version of this modulelist a few days after
    it is posted in the file 00modlist.html on the CPAN servers in the
    byauthor/ directory (maybe in the pml/ directory).


    Tim> Tim.

andreas


From k@anna.mind.de Mon Sep 25 14:18:30 1995
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 15:18:30 +0100
Message-Id: <199509251418.PAA02231@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9509220024.aa16392@post.mail.demon.net> (message from Tim Bunce
	on Fri, 22 Sep 1995 00:27:10 +0100)
Subject: Re: Who sent me 'selfloader'?
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk> writes:

    Tim> It would be nice if we could remove the inconsistency in the
    Tim> path below CPAN (mod/ vs no mod/).

Yes, Frederic and Hank (pasteur and ruu) should fit into the picture.

    >> I would like to see an ascii dump of this document as part of
    >> the modulelist, replacing the current whois section. That is
    >> why I formatted it exactly the same way.
    >> 
    Tim> Arrange a cron job to send the ascii version to me on the 6th
    Tim> and 21nd of each month and I'll give it a go.

I've been bloody stupid with this, it won't work that way.

    >> HTML modulelist 
    >> I do have a quite nice parser
    >> for the modulelist which tells me the differences to my
    >> database. The parser has an as_string method which returns the
    >> modulelist exactly as it is including empty lines, but it
    >> corrects a few errors. The asHTML method still needs some work.
    >> 
    Tim> Sending me a copy of the differences on the 6th and 21nd of
    Tim> each month would be a good start.

I was so busy over the weekend with the HTML version, that I missed
the 21st. Actually I think, it would be the best, if I sent you diffs
*after* you post, that is now. I can also send you a list of people in
the database, but I presume after a while my list should be bigger
than yours.

    >> The formatting of the modulelist should now, please, only be
    >> altered cautiously. I would also like to propose a few changes
    >> to the formatting, if you have time and are interested, but
    >> this is not important now.
    >> 
    Tim> Okay.

    >> New Users --------- You and I can enter new users into the
    >> database, thusly preventing duplicate userids. I would like to
    >> invite you, Tim, to actually use this form.

    Tim> How does using the form differ from my just adding the names
    Tim> to the module list and you parsing it?

No conflicts, should I (or e.g. Nick) ever add people.

    >> With the POST program from the lwp distribution you can do that
    >> without a browser. Let me know, if that is feasible for you. Or
    >> put otherwise: _I_ would sometimes like to invite people to put
    >> their credentials into the database (recently an opengl module
    >> writer and the xbase guy), but I do not want to do it without
    >> your consensus. Let me know, how you would like it.
    >> 
    Tim> For the time being I'd rather remain the 'moderator' of the
    Tim> list.

:-) Heureka! I never intended to ask for participation in maintaining
the list, really not. I don't feel qualified at all to do it. You're
doing an excellent job on it, and I'm happy if you keep doing it.

The module list server has a different job to do. Gather the stuff and
distribute it via CPAN. That's all. But this business is much wider
than the modulelist, and the home directories are quite well suited to
help more people than just those on the list. I was asking for the
best way to avoid conflicts in userids between your module list and
the server.

How do we integrate those for which the modulelist doesn't
(yet?/anymore?) offer a place? We should collect their works
nonetheless.

One solution would be, that you enter new userids into the database
and see, if they are accepted. This would even help you now to avoid
entering a user twice, as you did with Aaron Sherman (AJS and ASHER).

Another solution came to my mind yesterday. I give them userids
whenever I like and approve them after your next posting of the
modulelist. In case of conflicts I inform you. Are there no conflicts,
I start uploading their work.

    Tim> Some people here may know that I sometimes (ab)use the role
    Tim> to get people to reconsider the naming of their modules and
    Tim> sometimes even the overall design before I add them to the
    Tim> list. This happens behind the scenes by email.

And is a very valuable thing.

    Tim> While it's a major pain for both myself and them I think the
    Tim> end result is worth it (many modules in the list don't have
    Tim> their original names) and I'd like to continue for as long as
    Tim> I have the time and people still don't apply the guidelines
    Tim> written in the list.

And thank you for doing that!

    >> New Modules ----------- I guess, it would be inefficient to
    >> enter new modules directly to the database. I haven't yet
    >> prepared an interface to do it, I prefer to parse the
    >> modulelist and update manually.
    >> 
    Tim> Sounds good. It's not as if we're drowning in new modules
    Tim> every week!

Hope not :)
 
    >> Regards, andreas
    >> 
    Tim> Thanks for all your hard work Andreas. It looks very good.

Glad you like it! I send you the diffs to version 2.13 in PM.

    Tim> Tim.

andreas

From jared@organic.com Mon Sep 25 14:56:41 1995
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 07:56:41 -0700
Message-Id: <199509251456.HAA06577@shiva.organic.com>
From: Jared Rhine <jared@organic.com>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: CPAN structure and  module indexes
References: <199509221028.NAA18714@delta.hut.fi>
  <199509251044.LAA01450@anna.mind.de>
X-Attribution: JRhine
X-Uri: <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home>

[Citation date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:44:16 +0100]
AK == Andreas Koenig <andreas.koenig@mind.de>

  >> > It would be nice if we could remove the inconsistency in the path
  >> > below CPAN (mod/ vs no mod/).
  >> 
  >> I am 105% behind mod/ because that is the CPAN way...pml/ went online
  >> before the CPAN/ and therefore I adopted pml/ (Perl Module List, I
  >> presume) under the mod/ (modules aka extensions).

I agree with Tim; it would be nice to remove the inconsistency.  As to it
being "the CPAN way", I would hope that is still up for debate.  We should
try very hard to get the structure of the CPAN correct before announcing it;
if the structure already has historical artifacts (pml, byauthor, whatever),
we should not hesitate to throw them out and do it right.

  >> In short:  CPAN/mod/ is the CPAN
  >> mod/   is the 'bare' pml/

This makes little sense to me, nor will it make much sense to the Perl
community that we're trying to serve.  Documentation of the structure can
help reduce confusion, but the basic structure should be intuitive to start
with.

  AK> I don't think, a bymodule tree makes sense.

I strongly disagree.  I think that storing by author is alright for a
physical implementation, but to not symlink a more logical overview on top
of that would be a tragegy.

As a final note, I mirror all kinds of perl modules and the CPAN, so I get
to see the incremental changes as they get made.  I'm happy with basic
structure and implementation I see evolving.  It's good to see my suggestion
finally starting to come together (what, almost a year ago I proposed the
CPAN?)  It would have been nice to have some other name stick, though :)

BTW, soon I should be able to offer a US west-coast Perl archive with 4
redundant T1s.

-- 
jared@organic.com / Organic Online / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home>

"Sometimes you're the windshield; sometimes you're the bug."
  -- Dire Straits

From jhi@beta.hut.fi Mon Sep 25 15:43:41 1995
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 17:43:41 +0200
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: CPAN structure and  module indexes
In-Reply-To: <199509251456.HAA06577@shiva.organic.com>
References: <199509221028.NAA18714@delta.hut.fi>
	<199509251044.LAA01450@anna.mind.de>
	<199509251456.HAA06577@shiva.organic.com>
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Thus spake Jared Rhine:
 > [Citation date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 11:44:16 +0100]
 > AK == Andreas Koenig <andreas.koenig@mind.de>
 > 
 >   >> > It would be nice if we could remove the inconsistency in the path
 >   >> > below CPAN (mod/ vs no mod/).
 >   >> 
 >   >> I am 105% behind mod/ because that is the CPAN way...pml/ went online
 >   >> before the CPAN/ and therefore I adopted pml/ (Perl Module List, I
 >   >> presume) under the mod/ (modules aka extensions).
 > 
 > I agree with Tim; it would be nice to remove the inconsistency.  As to it
 > being "the CPAN way", I would hope that is still up for debate.  We should
 > try very hard to get the structure of the CPAN correct before announcing it;
 > if the structure already has historical artifacts (pml, byauthor, whatever),
 > we should not hesitate to throw them out and do it right.

The CPAN way means "as it is now in CPAN". No more, no less.  The
exact hierarchy is of course open to discussion. Your suggestion
was...? To rephrase:

        pml/... is how the Perl Module List does things.

        mod/pml/... is how the Perl Module List is hooked into CPAN.

*) CPAN is by itself not much: it is a superstructure that layers dozens of 
distinct Perl resources together. The PML is one part of that. CPAN hooks
various bits and pieces from the Net to itself, their subhierarchies
mirrored as-they-come, and supplies the Comprehensive view.

 >   >> In short:  CPAN/mod/ is the CPAN
 >   >> mod/   is the 'bare' pml/
 > 
 > This makes little sense to me, nor will it make much sense to the Perl
 > community that we're trying to serve.  Documentation of the structure can

I do not mean to be rude but what part of it does not make sense?
CPAN is CPAN, mod/ is modules/extensions (read the CPAN/ROADMAP,
a ruefully short document but still a document). pml/ is the Perl
Module List. See *) above.

 > I strongly disagree.  I think that storing by author is alright for a
 > physical implementation, but to not symlink a more logical overview on top
 > of that would be a tragegy.

I am also strongly in favour of a bymodule-tree.

 > As a final note, I mirror all kinds of perl modules and the CPAN, so I get
 > to see the incremental changes as they get made.  I'm happy with basic
 > structure and implementation I see evolving.  It's good to see my suggestion
 > finally starting to come together (what, almost a year ago I proposed the
 > CPAN?)  It would have been nice to have some other name stick, though :)

I can convert the CPAN to be the REEPH as soon as you want :-)

 > BTW, soon I should be able to offer a US west-coast Perl archive with 4
 > redundant T1s.
 > 
 > -- 
 > jared@organic.com / Organic Online / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home>
 > 
 > "Sometimes you're the windshield; sometimes you're the bug."
 >   -- Dire Straits

Yours Eclectically,
        The Self-Appointed Grand Vizier of the CPAN,
        Jarkko Hietaniemi

From jhi@beta.hut.fi Mon Sep 25 19:01:07 1995
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 21:01:07 +0200
Message-Id: <9509251901.AA09829@beta.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: FAQ, metaFAQ, real sites?
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
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Which are the Correct ftp sites for the CPAN to mirror for the FAQ and
the metaFAQ? For the FAQ rtfm.mit.edu would be sort of fine but the
filenames in there are horrible:

ncftp>dir
total 203
-rw-rw-r--   8 root     3           11846 Sep  6 01:11 comp.lang.perl.*_FAQ_0_5_-_Introduction
-rw-rw-r--   8 root     3           45714 Sep  6 01:11 comp.lang.perl.*_FAQ_1_5_-_Availability
-rw-rw-r--   8 root     3           30424 Sep  6 01:12 comp.lang.perl.*_FAQ_2_5_-_Information_Sources
-rw-rw-r--   8 root     3           27496 Sep  6 01:12 comp.lang.perl.*_FAQ_3_5_-_Programming_Aids
-rw-rw-r--   8 root     3           48269 Sep  6 01:12 comp.lang.perl.*_FAQ_4_5_-_General_Programming
-rw-rw-r--   8 root     3           41410 Sep  6 01:11 comp.lang.perl.*_FAQ_5_5_-_External_Program_Interaction
BLOOM-PICAYUNE.MIT.EDU:/pub/usenet-by-group/comp.lang.perl.misc
ncftp>

Can you really see Joe Newbie saying this?

ftp> get comp.lang.perl.*_FAQ_2_5_-_Information_Sources

And if he does, what will happen in his MS-DOS filesystem? :-)

AND: no metaFAQ in rtfm.mit.edu, either.

++jhi;

From jhi@beta.hut.fi Mon Sep 25 19:21:26 1995
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Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 21:21:26 +0200
Message-Id: <9509251921.AA01379@beta.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: tchrist@cs.colorado.edu, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: CPAN/doc/ old cruft, anyone fancy doing a cleanup?
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
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Some of these are quite obviously out of date, any one have
vision/knowledge/guestimate which of these could be removed?
Many of these come from convex.com and therefore Tom probably
is the best one to judge.

   4 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          3557 Dec 29  1994 metaFAQ-html.tar.gz
  42 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         42379 Dec 29  1994 metaFAQ.ps
  10 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          9565 Dec 29  1994 metaFAQ.txt
 120 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        122457 Dec  9  1994 perl_slides.2up.ps
  29 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         28845 Dec  8  1994 perl_slides.tex
 256 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        257374 Dec  8  1994 perl_slides.ps
   4 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          3808 Oct 30  1994 Perl5-for-MSDOS.gz
   5 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          4660 Oct 23  1994 PerlDoc-TOC.ps.gz
   4 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          3930 Oct 20  1994 Perlv5.0-Release-Note.gz
 352 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        359565 Oct 17  1994 PerlDoc.ps.gz
 144 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        145755 Sep  6  1994 intro.to.perl.ps
  44 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         44375 Sep  5  1994 IntroToPerl.ps.gz
   6 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          5550 Dec  2  1993 plum.slides.ps.gz
  15 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         15244 Dec  2  1993 convex-slides.tar.gz
  45 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         46060 Dec  2  1993 TeX-3.0-undump.tar.gz
  36 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         36757 Dec  1  1993 perlguideus.ps.gz
  36 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         36779 Dec  1  1993 perlguidea4.ps.gz
  11 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         10859 Dec  1  1993 Gotchas
 168 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        164008 Nov 10  1993 basic.ps.2-up
 136 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        133816 Nov 10  1993 adv.ps.2-up
  56 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         55220 Nov 10  1993 motif
   4 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          3602 Sep 28  1993 scan.ether.addrs.src
  29 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         29278 Jul 19  1993 perl-kconv-kit
  88 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         87926 Apr  6  1993 lang-survey.shar
  11 -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         11258 Apr  6  1993 keypress
  34 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         34785 Oct 30  1992 profiling.shar
  61 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         61576 Mar 16  1992 Data_in_perl.ps
 144 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        145965 Aug 27  1991 jinx.ps
  34 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         34423 Jun 22  1990 slides.ps
 160 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        156654 Jan 21  1990 perl-guide-us.ps
 160 -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        157010 Jan 21  1990 perl-guide-a4.ps

Similarly, in the subdirectories, a reaping of sorts might be needed:

-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         17714 Jul 11  1994 doc/tips/perl5/p5.method.chaining
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp           993 Jun 26  1994 doc/tips/perl5/p5.slice.operators.info
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          5359 Jun 26  1994 doc/tips/perl5/new.regexp.info
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         60146 Jun 26  1994 doc/tips/perl5/berkeley.db.interface
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          8520 Jun 15  1994 doc/tips/perl5/p5.dbargs.talk
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2318 Jun 12  1994 doc/tips/perl5/p5.inheritance.q.a
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         25856 Jun 12  1994 doc/tips/perl5/p5.callargv.example
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          9308 Jun 12  1994 doc/tips/perl5/dbperl.test.script
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         10942 Jun 11  1994 doc/tips/perl5/tkperl/tkperl5alpha.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          5967 May 23  1994 doc/tips/perl5/more.persistent.p5
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2369 May 15  1994 doc/tips/perl5/p5.magic.xv
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         10057 May 15  1994 doc/tips/perl5/p5.tie.conventions
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          6910 May 13  1994 doc/tips/perl5/p5.aver.and.deny
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          6956 May 13  1994 doc/tips/perl5/old/p5.profiling.subrs
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          5870 May 10  1994 doc/tips/perl5/p5.sXperl.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2151 May  8  1994 doc/tips/perl5/p5.embed
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2041 May  8  1994 doc/tips/perl5/forms/form.html
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          3960 May  6  1994 doc/tips/perl5/ref.t
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1352 May  6  1994 doc/tips/working.vgrind.entry
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2603 May  6  1994 doc/tips/wafeperl.for.linux
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1803 May  6  1994 doc/tips/wafe.extra.library
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         42181 May  6  1994 doc/tips/wafe.0.97.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2288 May  6  1994 doc/tips/solaris.sigset.tip
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          6635 May  6  1994 doc/tips/rexx.pattern.matching.in.perl
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          5229 May  6  1994 doc/tips/suidperl.info
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1794 May  6  1994 doc/tips/tgrind
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          3478 May  6  1994 doc/tips/software.engineering.with.perl.book
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp           952 May  6  1994 doc/tips/undump.unreadable
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          5988 May  6  1994 doc/tips/solaris.build
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp           934 May  6  1994 doc/tips/perl.info.manual
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1105 May  6  1994 doc/tips/perl.for.MPE
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1257 May  6  1994 doc/tips/perl4.VMS
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1231 May  6  1994 doc/tips/perl.for.Xenix
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1696 May  6  1994 doc/tips/os2.perl.info
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          3034 May  6  1994 doc/tips/p4.regexec.patch
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp           805 May  6  1994 doc/tips/perl.info.pages
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         10717 May  6  1994 doc/tips/human.genome.project.info
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         10008 May  6  1994 doc/tips/evaluate.parameters.info
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          5430 May  6  1994 doc/tips/llama.announce
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1255 May  6  1994 doc/tips/drealm.005
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         12144 May  6  1994 doc/tips/milarepa.info
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1557 May  6  1994 doc/tips/macperl.new
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp           999 May  6  1994 doc/tips/NTperl.zip.info
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2179 May  6  1994 doc/tips/bigperl.dos.sockets.info
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1085 May  6  1994 doc/tips/OS2perl
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1509 May  6  1994 doc/tips/SCO.stab.c.patch
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2126 May  6  1994 doc/tips/SunOS.gcc.compile
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         27969 May  6  1994 doc/tips/NEXT.instructions.building
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1442 May  6  1994 doc/tips/compile.perl.on.cray
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         31935 May  6  1994 doc/tips/books.and.ideas.info
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1731 May  6  1994 doc/tips/AUX.location
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          5440 May  5  1994 doc/tips/perl5/changes/beta.changes
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2226 May  5  1994 doc/tips/perl5/Todo
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          5061 May  5  1994 doc/tips/perl5/p5.tie.parallel
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1256 May  5  1994 doc/tips/perl5/p5.interpolate.fn.string
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          4622 May  5  1994 doc/tips/perl5/tie.scope.example
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         11610 May  4  1994 doc/tips/perl5/old/dlperl.info
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2968 May  2  1994 doc/tips/perl5/forms/doform.cgi
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         59047 May  1  1994 doc/tips/perl5/Perl5.1up.ps
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2054 Apr 30  1994 doc/tips/unclassified/array.ops
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          5374 Apr 30  1994 doc/tips/unclassified/eval.example
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2035 Apr 29  1994 doc/tips/unclassified/s.ee.trick
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          3227 Apr 29  1994 doc/tips/unclassified/uniq.newfangled
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2577 Apr 29  1994 doc/tips/unclassified/howto.undump.csh
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          2131 Apr 29  1994 doc/tips/unclassified/merlyns.fast.sort
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-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp           726 Mar 12  1990 doc/tutorial/eg/cbreak.pl
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp         24343 Feb 20  1990 doc/tutorial/slides/slides.ms
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          4135 Feb  9  1990 doc/tutorial/eg/uuhostd
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp           575 Feb  9  1990 doc/tutorial/eg/flush.pl
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1448 Feb  8  1990 doc/tutorial/eg/uuhost
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1037 Feb  4  1990 doc/tutorial/eg/nfinger
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        153904 Jan 21  1990 doc/refguide/perl-refcard.ps
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp           911 Jan 16  1990 doc/tutorial/eg/today
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1496 Jan 16  1990 doc/tutorial/eg/nlist
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1390 Jan 16  1990 doc/tutorial/eg/badrhosts
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp           658 Jan 16  1990 doc/tutorial/eg/getline.pl
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp           644 Jan 16  1990 doc/tutorial/eg/xpost

The doc/tutorial comes from some course (held by Tom?), the doc/tips/ comes
from somewhere I found while charting the Perl resources (metronet?
ufl?), doc/refguide/ contains some ancient refguides, doc/texinfo-j/
contains stuff for the jperl port (4.019-based, wow...), doc/texinfo/
contains Ancient versions, ...

	In short, some of the doc/ stuff is really really old and
	might be tossed out straight away. But quite frankly, I do not
	have the time to sort it all out and I ask that somebody would
	volunteer. You should probably wait in case a day or so so that
	the latest mirrorings I hooked into CPAN get propagated.

BTW: all you people mirroring CPAN: if the mirroring software you are
using does have an option called (maybe) 'exact-copy' which REMOVES
things NOT in the mirror source (=prevents old stuff from accumulating):
perhaps you should turn that option on. This way even when the CPAN
master keeps changing (directories moving around, old stuff like for
example these out-of-date doc/ files disappearing), your mirrors will
not accumulate all these birth pains.

++jhi;

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Mon Sep 25 20:22:35 1995
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: tchrist@cs.colorado.edu, perl-packrats@metronet.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: CPAN/doc/ old cruft, anyone fancy doing a cleanup? 
In-Reply-To: Your message <9509251921.AA01379@beta.hut.fi> of Mon, 25 Sep 95 21:21:26 +0200.
References: <9509251921.AA01379@beta.hut.fi> 
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 95 14:22:35 MDT
Message-Id: <16599.812060555@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

i would very much like it if the ancient (> one yea4r) slides
of mine were removed.  they are so out of date that it's embarrassing.

--tom

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Mon Sep 25 20:35:30 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN/doc/ old cruft, anyone fancy doing a cleanup? 
In-Reply-To: <16599.812060555@mox>
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	<16599.812060555@mox>
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Tom Christiansen writes:
 > i would very much like it if the ancient (> one yea4r) slides
 > of mine were removed.  they are so out of date that it's embarrassing.
 > 
 > --tom

Me too very much like that -- but which slides? Please be painfully detailed.

++jhi;

From neilb@borris.khoros.unm.edu Tue Sep 26 04:16:29 1995
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Posted-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:16:29 MDT
Message-Id: <9509260416.AA22783@borris.khoros.unm.edu>
From: neilb@khoral.com (Neil Bowers)
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 22:16:29 MDT
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: FAQ, metaFAQ, real sites?
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Reply-To: neilb@khoral.com
Organization: Khoral Research, Inc.

Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi wrote:
> Which are the Correct ftp sites for the CPAN to mirror for the FAQ and
> the metaFAQ?

For the Meta-FAQ:

        ftp://ftp.khoral.com/pub/perl/metaFAQ.txt
        ftp://ftp.khoral.com/pub/perl/metaFAQ.ps
        ftp://ftp.khoral.com/pub/perl/metaFAQ-html.tar.gz

The Meta-FAQ is horribly out of date -- real work has been pretty insistent.
I'm gonna try and get it updated within the next week or so, so mail me
anything you think should be added.

neilb

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Tue Sep 26 10:09:38 1995
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:09:38 +0200
Message-Id: <199509261009.MAA06325@alpha.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Andras Salamon <andras@is.co.za>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: CPAN offer in South Africa
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950925233236.18536h-100000@apollo.is.co.za>
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 > We have been mirroring various Perl resources for quite a while in
 >     ftp://ftp.is.co.za/programming/perl/
 > It's nice to see the CPAN following in the footsteps of the CTAN.  :-)
 > I would like to add our support to the CPAN by ceasing our own ad hoc
 > mirrors and mirroring the CPAN only in
 >     ftp://ftp.is.co.za/programming/perl/CPAN/

Welcome.

 > I suggest some kind of standardised naming scheme (similar to CTAN)
 > so that just the CPAN hosts need to be known, and not the full paths.
 > Paths off the root directory would be nice:
 >     ftp://ftp.is.co.za/CPAN/

I must negotiate with the Administrators of funet.fi, I am just
an administrator...[email exchange]...OK, we can have:

	/pub/CPAN/

	or

	/pub/perl/CPAN/

Which one do you prefer? ("You" being here plural, all you packrats)

 > Please let us know if you are interested.  We would also like to know
 > the best strategy to allow the mirror to proceed with minimum
 > fuss--ftp.funet.fi tends to be very busy for anonymous ftp, perhaps you

I will ask whether there are any mirror accounts ready/possible to create.

 > have a mirror account we could use, or perhaps we should continue to do
 > a second level mirror (in which case we need to know the times of the
 > other mirrors so that we can minimise synch time)?

Uh, I do not know the exact times of the mirrors being made on funet.
Should I? Ah well, I guess I should...your pipe to USA is probably
much better than to Finland, perhaps you should continue mirroring ufl.

++jhi;

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Tue Sep 26 10:52:24 1995
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:52:24 +0200
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Andras Salamon <andras@is.co.za>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN offer in South Africa
In-Reply-To: <Pine.SOL.3.91.950926122307.6883F-100000@apollo.is.co.za>
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Thus spake Andras Salamon <andras@is.co.za>:
 > Anything that doesn't have /pub.  We are scrapping pub.

Can't be helped, nic is much, much, more than just CPAN and
The Administrators in there won't have CPAN at the root, full stop.

Hmmm, more voices from the nic Admins, grumbling voices at this
time, voices that oppose both

	/pub/CPAN/
	/pub/perl/CPAN

and suggest sticking in nic to

	/pub/languages/perl/CPAN

Thus spake Harri Salminen <hks@funet.fi>:
> Joissain pienissd ftp servereissd mahtuu vaikka juureen kaikenlaista
> mutta ei NICissd. Jos lyhyt polku todella tuntuu tarpeelliselta niin
> sitten sopii laittaa symlinkki /index/perl -> /pub/languages/perl (tai
> jopa /index/CPAN -> /pub/languages/perl/CPAN ). Ei minusta ole jdrked
> yrittddkddn yhtendistdd polkuja eri koneissa, joka tapauksessa koneen
> nimethdn ovat erilaisia joten tuo tieto pitdd tietdd joka tapauksessa
> etukdteen.

Translation for the Finnish-impaired (-:

> In some small ftp servers one can stick even to root all kinds of stuff
> but not in nic. If a short parth really feels necessary you can
> make a symlink /index/perl -> /pub/languages/perl (or even /index/CPAN
> -> /pub/languages/perl/CPAN). I see no sense in trying to standardise
> the paths in different hosts because in any case the host names will
> differ and thus the (exact) location information must be known
> beforehand.

(hks is here speaking of the nic /index/ directory)

Well, nic _is_ a large ftp site (57 GB _used_ disk space as we speak)
so I guess the Admins have some expertise in maintaining disk hierarchies.

And I cannot do much if they do not agree, sorry.

++jhi;

From nandu@cis.ufl.edu Tue Sep 26 11:38:39 1995
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From: <nandu@cis.ufl.edu>
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Reply-To: japh@cis.ufl.edu
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: the UF Perl archive
Cc: japh@cis.ufl.edu, "Jedi Masters" <consult@cis.ufl.edu>

This is meant specifically for anyone who uses
ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/, and *especially* for anyone who's
mirroring it (and consider it also an FYI for anyone else who's
interested). 

Since we are now a member of CPAN, we have deprecated our old directory
structure and are in the process of removing it.  Effective immediately
(unless otherwise noted), the new directory structure is as follows:

   o pub/perl/CPAN/ is a (nightly) mirror of
     ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/

   o pub/perl/comp.lang.perl.[foo]/ contains the archive of the appropriate
     newsgroup, with the last 6 months in .gz form, and the current
     articles (uncompressed) in comp.lang.[foo]/thismonth/
     Note that ftp.funet.fi mirrors these archives from us, without doing
     deletes (ie they have more than the last 6 months).  Since the point
     of deleting "ancient" articles from our servers is to conserve disk
     space, we do *not* re-mirror CPAN/clp/ from funet; instead, CPAN/clp/
     contains links to pub/perl/comp.lang.perl.[foo].

   o pub/perl/FAQ/ will (as of Thursday, 28 September 1995) contain the FAQ
     and metaFAQ, both in .gz form

I think that covers it.  If you have any questions, or if I left something
out, please let me know.

Nandu Shah                                                  japh@cis.ufl.edu
UF/CISE Perl Guy                                http://www.cis.ufl.edu/perl/

From jared@organic.com Wed Sep 27 06:38:52 1995
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Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 23:38:52 -0700
Message-Id: <199509270638.XAA06104@shiva.organic.com>
From: Jared Rhine <jared@organic.com>
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: CPAN module section structure
References: <199509221028.NAA18714@delta.hut.fi>
  <199509251044.LAA01450@anna.mind.de>
  <199509251456.HAA06577@shiva.organic.com>
  <9509251543.AA28485@beta.hut.fi>
X-Attribution: JRhine
X-Uri: <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home>

[Citation date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 17:43:41 +0200]
JH == Jarkko Hietaniemi <Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi>

I wanted to find some stuff in the CPAN tonight, so I got a chance to have
some thoughts on possible structures.  I've had some thoughts on the modules
section, so I present them below.  The current structure of CPAN/mod
follows:

  CPAN/mod:
  total 9
  drwxr-xr-x   9 jared  staff   512 Sep 15 04:20 ./
  drwxr-xr-x  10 jared  staff   512 Sep 26 04:23 ../
  drwxr-xr-x   2 jared  staff   512 Sep 15 04:25 cursperl/
  drwxr-xr-x  10 jared  staff   512 Sep 23 04:20 db/
  drwxr-xr-x   3 jared  staff   512 Sep 15 04:20 misc/
  drwxr-xr-x   3 jared  staff  1024 Sep 15 04:26 pml/
  drwxr-xr-x   2 jared  staff   512 Sep 15 04:20 snmp/
  drwxr-xr-x   2 jared  staff   512 Sep 15 04:20 usub/
  drwxr-xr-x   2 jared  staff   512 Sep 15 04:20 xmperl/

It doesn't seem to me that this is very modern, and is unlikely to extend
and scale well. It seems very unlikely that the perl4 extensions will grow
in number, or are even close to the most important component of the module
section of the CPAN, and as such should not be immediately below CPAN/mod.
The perl4 and perl5 versions of snmp should be separated, and that the real
Perl 5 modules like cursperl and db should be on the PML somewhere.

  JH> CPAN is by itself not much: it is a superstructure that layers dozens
  JH> of distinct Perl resources together. The PML is one part of that.

I think it would be very worthwhile to perhaps loosen this model a bit; I
believe that the value of both the PML and the CPAN would increase if the
two were not quite so independent.  In brief, I see no reason to have the
PML as a subdirectory when it really comprises the core of this section.

Taking this to heart, one structure I might propose would be:

    CPAN/mod
      by-author
        ADESC
        ...
      by-category
        databases
        devel
        graphics
        lang-ext
        networking
        www
        ...
      by-module
        Devel
          Symdump->../../by-author/ANDK/Symdump-1.20.tar.gz
        LWP
          Base64->../../by-author/GAAS/lwp-0.04.tar.gz
          MediaTypes->../../by-author/GAAS/lwp-0.04.tar.gz
          ...
      misc
      modules-list
      perl4   
    
The division of by-category is difficult to do, as I'm loath to just say
'PML-section-1', and it is very hard to come up with names that accurately
describe everything contained in a given PML section.  I could claim that
the fact that it is difficult to break the PML into cogent categories is a
failing of the PML, but I'm not about to disparage one of the best resources
our community has.

There are also a number of issues involved with by-module.  I hadn't thought
much about by-module before this, for some reason.  I hadn't noticed the
problem that packaging multiple "packages" within a single distribution
causes when trying to create a reverse mapping like the above by-module.  I
think that it would be useful to have some way of doing this kind of lookup,
but I'm far from sure that what I sketch above is the way to do it.

While I'm on CPAN/mod, I would like to register my opinion that it would be
more intuitive and easier for beginners to navigate if we renamed CPAN/mod
to CPAN/modules.

Thoughts on this restructing of CPAN/mod?

Hmmm, it occurs to me that I've made three or four distinct proposals in
this message, so let me make it clear that my primary suggestions are:

  + Move CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor to CPAN/modules/byauthor (or by-author)
  + Move CPAN/mod/xmperl to CPAN/modules/perl4/xmperl
  + Move CPAN/mod/usub to CPAN/modules/perl4
  + Move CPAN/mod/{cursperl,db,snmp} to CPAN/modules/misc until they can be
    relocated in CPAN/modules/by-category or in by-author by being placed on
    the PML.

Again, glad to see work in this area; I hope my ideas can be of some use to
improve the final product.

-- 
jared@organic.com / Organic Online / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home>

"Come, let us retract the foreskin of misconception and apply the wire
 brush of enlightenment." -- Geoff Miller

From k@anna.mind.de Wed Sep 27 08:41:12 1995
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Message-Id: <199509270841.JAA09891@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: jared@organic.com
Cc: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi, perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <199509270638.XAA06104@shiva.organic.com> (message from Jared
	Rhine on Tue, 26 Sep 1995 23:38:52 -0700)
Subject: Re: CPAN module section structure
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

JRhine wrote:
> 
> [Citation date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 17:43:41 +0200]
> JH == Jarkko Hietaniemi <Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi>
> 
> I wanted to find some stuff in the CPAN tonight, so I got a chance to have
> some thoughts on possible structures.  I've had some thoughts on the modules
> section, so I present them below.  The current structure of CPAN/mod
> follows:
> 
>   CPAN/mod:
>   total 9
>   drwxr-xr-x   9 jared  staff   512 Sep 15 04:20 ./
>   drwxr-xr-x  10 jared  staff   512 Sep 26 04:23 ../
>   drwxr-xr-x   2 jared  staff   512 Sep 15 04:25 cursperl/
>   drwxr-xr-x  10 jared  staff   512 Sep 23 04:20 db/
>   drwxr-xr-x   3 jared  staff   512 Sep 15 04:20 misc/
>   drwxr-xr-x   3 jared  staff  1024 Sep 15 04:26 pml/
>   drwxr-xr-x   2 jared  staff   512 Sep 15 04:20 snmp/
>   drwxr-xr-x   2 jared  staff   512 Sep 15 04:20 usub/
>   drwxr-xr-x   2 jared  staff   512 Sep 15 04:20 xmperl/
> 
> It doesn't seem to me that this is very modern, and is unlikely to extend
> and scale well. It seems very unlikely that the perl4 extensions will grow
> in number, or are even close to the most important component of the module
> section of the CPAN, and as such should not be immediately below CPAN/mod.
> The perl4 and perl5 versions of snmp should be separated, and that the real
> Perl 5 modules like cursperl and db should be on the PML somewhere.

The curseperl directory contains William Setzer's cursperl module,
which is much more up-to-date ind byauthor/WPS. It should be deleted.

db as a directory name is misleading, because it has nothing to do
with berkeley db. Maybe it should be renamed to

    Mirrors/ftp.demon.co.uk/
    or
    ftp.demon.co.uk/

misc, well, let's talk about it later.

snmp contains an snmp package that is very close to the perl4 snmperl,
and is regarded as a short-term solution until Joe Marzot has finished
his SNMP (byauthor/GSM).

usub and xmp should certainly be hidden below a perl4/ directory,
maybe CPAN/perl4/.

So let's come back to the misc directory:

    DoWhatIWant.pm       11-Apr-95 13:56     1K 
    Socket-5.001d.tar.gz 05-Apr-95 15:28     4K 
    tkperl/              26-Sep-95 04:02      - 

tkperl/ is perl4 and should go to the perl4/ directory, wherever it is.

Socket-5.001d.tar.gz contains a Socket.xs. I must have missed it, when
it was posted. It has no README and no aithor section in the
files. Who knows about the status of this package?

DoWhatIWant.pm maybe could be a floating extension that is moved by a
cronjob to a random place every night. Emm

If you follow me, after this being done, mod/ contains only pml.

mod/pml/byauthor could then be flattened out. We don't want
directories containing nothing but ONE subdirectory.

> 
>   JH> CPAN is by itself not much: it is a superstructure that layers dozens
>   JH> of distinct Perl resources together. The PML is one part of that.
> 
> I think it would be very worthwhile to perhaps loosen this model a bit; I
> believe that the value of both the PML and the CPAN would increase if the
> two were not quite so independent.  In brief, I see no reason to have the
> PML as a subdirectory when it really comprises the core of this section.
> 
> Taking this to heart, one structure I might propose would be:
> 
>     CPAN/mod
> 	by-author
> 	  ADESC
> 	  ...

I like this.

> 	by-category
> 	  databases
> 	  devel
> 	  graphics
> 	  lang-ext
> 	  networking
> 	  www
> 	  ...

Good grief, that's hard to maintain, and not worth the effort.

> 	by-module
> 	  Devel
> 	    Symdump->../../by-author/ANDK/Symdump-1.20.tar.gz
> 	  LWP
> 	    Base64->../../by-author/GAAS/lwp-0.04.tar.gz
> 	    MediaTypes->../../by-author/GAAS/lwp-0.04.tar.gz
> 	    ...

>From the current state of the database it's rather easy to generate
symlinks that do not point to files but to directories.

 	by-module
 	  Devel
 	    Symdump->../../by-author/ANDK
 	  LWP
 	    Base64->../../by-author/GAAS
 	    MediaTypes->../../by-author/GAAS
 	    ...

It would need some manual intervention, because the LWP modules are
'owned' by LWWWP, not by Gisle in the module list. It's currently very
difficult to point to the most recent file, because too many things
change between releases, especially we have only few authors that keep
a canonical form of their package names. This is changing slowly yo
the better, so let's see, what we can produce in a few weeks.

I had a visit on a sunsite mirror, and I see, they have started to
provide html guidance throughout the ftp hierarchie, and I think,
that's the real thing.

> 	misc
> 	modules-list
> 	perl4   
>     
> The division of by-category is difficult to do, as I'm loath to just say

:-) Yeah, I know! The reason why it took me so long to have the thing
going is, that I started out on a bymodule basis and got completely
lost. It needs too much cooperation from the authors...

> 'PML-section-1', and it is very hard to come up with names that accurately
> describe everything contained in a given PML section.  I could claim that
> the fact that it is difficult to break the PML into cogent categories is a
> failing of the PML, but I'm not about to disparage one of the best resources
> our community has.

Thanks to Kenneth, that he showed me the way out by divide and conquer.

> 
> There are also a number of issues involved with by-module.  I hadn't thought
> much about by-module before this, for some reason.  I hadn't noticed the
> problem that packaging multiple "packages" within a single distribution
> causes when trying to create a reverse mapping like the above by-module.  I
> think that it would be useful to have some way of doing this kind of lookup,
> but I'm far from sure that what I sketch above is the way to do it.
> 
> While I'm on CPAN/mod, I would like to register my opinion that it would be
> more intuitive and easier for beginners to navigate if we renamed CPAN/mod
> to CPAN/modules.

I like that.

> 
> Thoughts on this restructing of CPAN/mod?
> 
> Hmmm, it occurs to me that I've made three or four distinct proposals in
> this message, so let me make it clear that my primary suggestions are:
> 
>   + Move CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor to CPAN/modules/byauthor (or by-author)
>   + Move CPAN/mod/xmperl to CPAN/modules/perl4/xmperl
>   + Move CPAN/mod/usub to CPAN/modules/perl4
>   + Move CPAN/mod/{cursperl,db,snmp} to CPAN/modules/misc until they can be
>     relocated in CPAN/modules/by-category or in by-author by being placed on
>     the PML.
> 
> Again, glad to see work in this area; I hope my ideas can be of some use to
> improve the final product.

Thank you! Lots of good thoughts. I'm disappointed that you didn't
mention the html module list :). I guess I will have to change my
structure from

   pml/byauthor/
        00whois.html
        00modlist.html
        ADESC/

to

   modules/
        00whois.html
        00modlist.html
        by-author/
                ADESC/        

and then build a prototype of a by-module tree. Right?

ONE thought from Tim Bunce should be rated now, that we are at it. I
think, I like it more than a by-module tree:

    2_Perl_Core_Modules_Perl_Language_Extensions_and_Documentation_Tools/
    3_Development_Support/
    4_Operating_System_Interfaces/
    5_Networking_Device_Control_modems_and_InterProcess_Communication/
    6_Data_Types_and_Data_Type_Utilities/
    7_Database_Interfaces/
    8_User_Interfaces/
    9_Interfaces_to_Emulations_of_Other_Programming_Languages/
    10_File_Names_File_Systems_File_Locking_and_File_Handles/
    11_Text_Processing_Parsing_and_Searching/
    12_Option_Argument_Parameter_and_Configuration_File_Processing/
    13_Internationalization_and_Locale/
    14_Security_and_Encryption/
    15_World_Wide_Web_HTML_HTTP_CGI_MIME/
    16_Server_and_Daemon_Utilities/
    17_Archiving_and_Compression/
    18_Image_Pixmap_and_Bitmap_Manipulation_Drawing_and_Graphing/
    19_Mail_and_Usenet_News/
    20_Miscellaneous_Modules/

In each of the directories we have a view links to the by-author tree
AND a html file that contains the relevant part of the module list. So
the ftp junkies can get their deal and the html newbies can navigate
easily. What gives?



andreas

From jared@organic.com Wed Sep 27 10:35:54 1995
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Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:35:54 -0700
Message-Id: <199509271035.DAA09446@shiva.organic.com>
From: Jared Rhine <jared@organic.com>
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN module section structure
References: <199509270638.XAA06104@shiva.organic.com>
  <199509270841.JAA09891@anna.mind.de>
X-Attribution: JRhine
X-Uri: <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home>

[Citation date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 09:41:12 +0100]
AK == Andreas Koenig <andreas.koenig@mind.de>

[Detailed instructions on where to put items in CPAN/mod].

  JRhine> by-category
  JRhine>   databases
  JRhine>   devel
  JRhine>   graphics
  JRhine>   lang-ext
  JRhine>   networking
  JRhine>   www
  JRhine>   ...

  AK> Good grief, that's hard to maintain, and not worth the effort.

I strongly disagree that it's not worth effort.  I think that, of the three
indexes (by-author, by-module, by-category), by-category is the most useful
and would be the most often used, were it to be provided.  C'mon, is a
newbie going to say, "Hmmm, I need a module to do some database work.  I'll
just go into CPAN/modules/by-author/DBI and fetch just what I need'.  Or are
they going to poke around for a minute, see 'CPAN/by-category/databases',
and go into there to find something to do database work?

As to "hard to maintain", I would disagree, but I'll shut up until I can
contribute automated tools to do the work.

  >> by-module
  >>   Devel
  >>     Symdump-> ../../by-author/ANDK/Symdump-1.20.tar.gz

  AK> From the current state of the database it's rather easy to generate
  AK> symlinks that do not point to files but to directories.

Perhaps true, but in many cases, that may not be useful to the user because
it will point to a by-author subdirectory; once there, it won't be clear
which file needs to be retrieved to get the functionality they were looking
for.

  AK> It's currently very difficult to point to the most recent file,
  AK> because too many things change between releases, especially we have
  AK> only few authors that keep a canonical form of their package
  AK> names. This is changing slowly yo the better, so let's see, what we
  AK> can produce in a few weeks.

Perhaps we can help some of that problem by being a bit more explicit in our
coding standards; like produce a quick reference: "How to submit a package
to the CPAN".  What current specifications do we have?

It may be difficult at first, but are we agreed that it might be a neat
functionality to include if we can?

  AK> I'm disappointed that you didn't mention the html module list :)

I was happy to see it appear.  Thanks.

  AK> I guess I will have to change my structure from
  AK> 
  AK>    pml/byauthor/
  AK>         00whois.html
  AK>         00modlist.html
  AK>         ADESC/
  AK> 
  AK> to
  AK> 
  AK>    modules/
  AK>         00whois.html
  AK>         00modlist.html
  AK>         by-author/
  AK>                 ADESC/        
  AK> 
  AK> and then build a prototype of a by-module tree. Right?

That looks right to me.

-- 
jared@organic.com / Organic Online / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home>

"Truth is an evaluation of a statement within a context."
        -- attributed to David Butterfield

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Tue Sep 26 11:45:22 1995
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          Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:45:22 +0100
To: andras@is.co.za, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN offer in South Africa
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 12:45:22 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
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> From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
> 
> Thus spake Andras Salamon <andras@is.co.za>:
>  > Anything that doesn't have /pub.  We are scrapping pub.
> 
> Can't be helped, nic is much, much, more than just CPAN and
> The Administrators in there won't have CPAN at the root, full stop.
> 
> Hmmm, more voices from the nic Admins, grumbling voices at this
> time, voices that oppose both
> 
> 	/pub/CPAN/
> 	/pub/perl/CPAN
> 
> and suggest sticking in nic to
> 
> 	/pub/languages/perl/CPAN
> 
You'll never be able to get consistency here. The best you can do is
make a set of recommendations, in priority order, for those who have
a choice.

Personally I'd just suggest having

	.../perl/CPAN/

as near to the top of the hierarchy as possible.

Tim.

From wjm  Wed Sep 27 16:04:01 1995
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From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Wed, 27 Sep 1995 16:03:32 -0500
In-Reply-To: Henk Penning <henkp@cs.ruu.nl>
       "jinx, cterm" (Sep 26, 11:47am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Henk Penning <henkp@cs.ruu.nl>
Subject: Re: jinx, cterm
Cc: perl-packrats

On Sep 26, 11:47am, Henk Penning wrote:
} Subject: jinx, cterm
} Bill,
} 
}   Since CPAN seems to become a reality, can you add some stuff
}   I wrote to the scripts archive?
} 
}   stuff:
} 
}     ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/cterm.shar.gz
}     ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/jinx.shar.gz
} 
}   The first lets you use curses in perl,
}   the second is a flat-file handler (uses the first).
} 

Done Henk.  I updated the menu for gopher, and the index.html too.


}   The documentation file:
} 
}     ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/jinx.ps.gz
} 
}   is already somewhere in doc-tree.
} 
}   The stuff is quite old, but 'cterm' is mentioned in the faq
}   and 'jinx' is mentioned in the free-databases faq, so it
}   is still quit popular.

I have some concerns about being the ongoing primary submission site.
First, I'm not necessarily qualified to say what belongs in the CPAN,
(as opposed to the metronet archive).  I'm proud of what I've been able
to contribute to date, but I really think we need to start to 
formulate a plan for official submission policy.  I cant say more
than that right now, I'm flying out to San Jose in 2 hrs, but I'm
certain y'all have some thoughts on this.


I'll probably try to get into the CPAN mirror scheme when I get back,
possibly this weekend.

I'd hope that any plan would include an updated index.html, and (out
of deference to gopher users here) the gn menu file.  I could do
the menu files here by hand tho, if we had a standard format for notifications,
like they do on CTAN.

Bill

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Thu Sep 28 10:34:59 1995
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          Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:34:59 +0100
To: Malcolm@demon.net
Subject: Re: Mirroring CPAN onto ftp.demon
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:34:59 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id: <9509281136.aa01384@relay-3.mail.demon.net>


> From: Malcolm Muir <malcolm@thokk.demon.co.uk>
> 
> Tim Bunce writes:
> 
> > I seem to recall that we discussed this a while back but as nothing
> > appears to have happened perhaps it was a figment of my imagination.
> 
> Nope, we did discuss this.
> 
> > The Comprehensive Perl Archive Network is maturing well. It now
> > totals around 140Mb much of it mirrored from many (>10) other sites.
> > 
> > I would like to request that Demon mirror a CPAN site to /pub/perl/CPAN.
> 
> Try looking at /pub/mirrors/perl :)
> 
Ah, so _that's_ where it is! :-)

> > Whilst I'm on the subject of /pub/perl...
> > 
> >       The FAQ's are *very* old. Fresh copies can be found at
> >       ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/perl-faq/
> >       (Or just set up a CPAN mirror and use symlinks into that :-)
> 
> See later...
> 
> >       Almost all the the sub directories (except db :-) are very old.
> >       A CPAN mirror would allow you to delete most of these dated files.
> 
> See later...
> 
> > Please let me know if/when you'll set up a mirror so I can get it
> > added to the list of mirrors.
> 
> We are mirroring and you can ask for us to be added to the list,
> however with the current connectivity problem due to Sprint I am less
> than happy with the quality of the mirror. I *think* all the files are
> there now, but I am suffering the same timeouts etc. on this link as
> the customers !  It is a busy slow site. (Which is of course a good
> reason to mirror it).
> 
> As soon as I am happy with the updating etc. I will be removing the
> rubbish you note above and linking the /pub/perl structure to the
> /pub/mirrors/perl one. I will also make an announcement at this time.
> 
I trust you'll leave /pub/perl/db since that's the master site that CPAN
mirrors database related files from!

> As you say /pub/mirrors/perl/CPAN will be 'duplicated' in
> /pub/perl/CPAN. 
> 
Great.

> Sorry this has taken so long, but connectivity is a problem and I
> don't want to make it worse by placing further frequent load on the
> link at busy times.
> 
> I am hoping Sprint keep their promise and upgrade their problematic
> router this week.
> 
> Malcolm
> 
Thanks Malcolm.

Tim.

From k@anna.mind.de Thu Sep 28 12:53:22 1995
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Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 13:53:22 +0100
Message-Id: <199509281253.NAA15104@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: jared@organic.com
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <199509271035.DAA09446@shiva.organic.com> (message from Jared
	Rhine on Wed, 27 Sep 1995 03:35:54 -0700)
Subject: Re: CPAN module section structure
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

JRhine == Jared Rhine <jared@organic.com>
AK == Andreas Koenig <andreas.koenig@mind.de>

AK> Good grief, that's hard to maintain, and not worth the effort.
JRhine> 
JRhine> I strongly disagree that it's not worth effort.  I think that, of the three
JRhine> indexes (by-author, by-module, by-category), by-category is the most useful
JRhine> and would be the most often used, were it to be provided.  C'mon, is a
JRhine> newbie going to say, "Hmmm, I need a module to do some database work.  I'll
JRhine> just go into CPAN/modules/by-author/DBI and fetch just what I need'.  Or are
JRhine> they going to poke around for a minute, see 'CPAN/by-category/databases',
JRhine> and go into there to find something to do database work?
JRhine> 
JRhine> As to "hard to maintain", I would disagree, but I'll shut up until I can
JRhine> contribute automated tools to do the work.

Sounds like a voluteer :)

Forgive me, I do see your point now. And when I read my previous
posting again my last paragraph was already an answer to the
by-category theme with variation. Let me recite it:

    2_Perl_Core_Modules_Perl_Language_Extensions_and_Documentation_Tools/
    3_Development_Support/
    4_Operating_System_Interfaces/
    5_Networking_Device_Control_modems_and_InterProcess_Communication/
    6_Data_Types_and_Data_Type_Utilities/
    7_Database_Interfaces/
    8_User_Interfaces/
    9_Interfaces_to_Emulations_of_Other_Programming_Languages/
    10_File_Names_File_Systems_File_Locking_and_File_Handles/
    11_Text_Processing_Parsing_and_Searching/
    12_Option_Argument_Parameter_and_Configuration_File_Processing/
    13_Internationalization_and_Locale/
    14_Security_and_Encryption/
    15_World_Wide_Web_HTML_HTTP_CGI_MIME/
    16_Server_and_Daemon_Utilities/
    17_Archiving_and_Compression/
    18_Image_Pixmap_and_Bitmap_Manipulation_Drawing_and_Graphing/
    19_Mail_and_Usenet_News/
    20_Miscellaneous_Modules/

These are the subchapters within the modulelist and I can easily teach
my database to know, which chapter a module belongs to. I'm definitely
going to write a prototype of such a by-category directory today or
within a few days. Maybe with leading zeroes for 2-9 and with a
chapter 99_Not_in_the_module_list (currently empty). Won't be that
hard to do.

JRhine>   >> by-module
JRhine>   >>   Devel
JRhine>   >>     Symdump-> ../../by-author/ANDK/Symdump-1.20.tar.gz
JRhine> 
AK> From the current state of the database it's rather easy to generate
AK> symlinks that do not point to files but to directories.
JRhine> 
JRhine> Perhaps true, but in many cases, that may not be useful to the user because
JRhine> it will point to a by-author subdirectory; once there, it won't be clear
JRhine> which file needs to be retrieved to get the functionality they were looking
JRhine> for.

But how do _I_ find out? This morning I was strolling around to fill
the last few holes in the database and found GL-0.2.tar.gz and
SGI-GL-0.2.tar.gz. I had to retrieve both, unpack and apply some
hard-to-code heuristics to determine which one to ignore (it was
GL-...).

  AK> It's currently very difficult to point to the most recent file,
  AK> because too many things change between releases, especially we have
  AK> only few authors that keep a canonical form of their package
  AK> names. This is changing slowly yo the better, so let's see, what we
  AK> can produce in a few weeks.

JRhine> Perhaps we can help some of that problem by being a bit more explicit in our
JRhine> coding standards; like produce a quick reference: "How to submit a package
JRhine> to the CPAN".  What current specifications do we have?
JRhine> 
JRhine> It may be difficult at first, but are we agreed that it might be a neat
JRhine> functionality to include if we can?

Right. But I prefer to have a working system _now_, the education will
follow when people actually see how useful version numbers within the
filename are, and what a bad thing is to rerelease a package with same
name and different contents.

You're very much welcome to write a standard. Tim has already given a
few guidelines, maybe a good place to start. If you can dedicate a
routine is_conforming() that allows me to reject uploads, it could be
discussed here and I could integrate it.

We will have to formulate an opinion to the quite common practice of
linking the most recent version to a basename, e.g. zsh.tar.gz ->
../../archive/zsh-2.6beta10.tar.gz. Many people seem to like that. I
don't. But standards usually are based on established conventions.

  AK> I guess I will have to change my structure from
  AK> 
  AK>    pml/byauthor/
  AK>         00whois.html
  AK>         00modlist.html
  AK>         ADESC/
  AK> 
  AK> to
  AK> 
  AK>    modules/
  AK>         00whois.html
  AK>         00modlist.html
  AK>         by-author/
  AK>                 ADESC/        
  AK> 
  AK> and then build a prototype of a by-module tree. Right?

JRhine> That looks right to me.

Thanks. Gonna do that now.


andreas

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Thu Sep 28 10:47:16 1995
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          Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:47:16 +0100
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de, henkp@cs.ruu.nl
Subject: Re: Who sent me 'selfloader'?
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 11:47:16 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
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> From: Henk Penning <henkp@cs.ruu.nl>
> 
> Andreas Koenig writes:
> 
> | >>>>> "Tim" == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk> writes:
> | 
> |     Tim> It would be nice if we could remove the inconsistency in the
> |     Tim> path below CPAN (mod/ vs no mod/).
> | 
> | Yes, Frederic and Hank (pasteur and ruu) should fit into the picture.
> 
>   As of today, 'ftp.cs.ruu.nl' mirrors 'ftp.funet.fi'.
> 
>   Please refer as ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/CPAN
> 
>   Once we are in sync, I will reorganize (throw away mostly)
>   the stuff we had already.
> 
That's great. Thanks Henk.

Any particular reason for PERL to be in capital letters (unlike the
other CPAN sites)?

Tim.

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Thu Sep 28 15:53:30 1995
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To: jared@organic.com, andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: CPAN module section structure
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 1995 16:53:30 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
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> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
> JRhine == Jared Rhine <jared@organic.com>
> AK == Andreas Koenig <andreas.koenig@mind.de>
> 
> AK> Good grief, that's hard to maintain, and not worth the effort.
> JRhine> 
> JRhine> I strongly disagree that it's not worth effort.  I think that, of the three
> JRhine> indexes (by-author, by-module, by-category), by-category is the most useful
> JRhine> and would be the most often used, were it to be provided.  C'mon, is a
> JRhine> newbie going to say, "Hmmm, I need a module to do some database work.  I'll
> JRhine> just go into CPAN/modules/by-author/DBI and fetch just what I need'.  Or are
> JRhine> they going to poke around for a minute, see 'CPAN/by-category/databases',
> JRhine> and go into there to find something to do database work?

I agree.

> JRhine> As to "hard to maintain", I would disagree, but I'll shut up until I can
> JRhine> contribute automated tools to do the work.
> 
> Sounds like a voluteer :)
> 
> Forgive me, I do see your point now. And when I read my previous
> posting again my last paragraph was already an answer to the
> by-category theme with variation. Let me recite it:
> 
>     2_Perl_Core_Modules_Perl_Language_Extensions_and_Documentation_Tools/
>     3_Development_Support/
>     4_Operating_System_Interfaces/
>     5_Networking_Device_Control_modems_and_InterProcess_Communication/
>     6_Data_Types_and_Data_Type_Utilities/
>     7_Database_Interfaces/
>     8_User_Interfaces/
>     9_Interfaces_to_Emulations_of_Other_Programming_Languages/
>     10_File_Names_File_Systems_File_Locking_and_File_Handles/
>     11_Text_Processing_Parsing_and_Searching/
>     12_Option_Argument_Parameter_and_Configuration_File_Processing/
>     13_Internationalization_and_Locale/
>     14_Security_and_Encryption/
>     15_World_Wide_Web_HTML_HTTP_CGI_MIME/
>     16_Server_and_Daemon_Utilities/
>     17_Archiving_and_Compression/
>     18_Image_Pixmap_and_Bitmap_Manipulation_Drawing_and_Graphing/
>     19_Mail_and_Usenet_News/
>     20_Miscellaneous_Modules/
> 
> These are the subchapters within the modulelist and I can easily teach
> my database to know, which chapter a module belongs to. I'm definitely
> going to write a prototype of such a by-category directory today or
> within a few days. Maybe with leading zeroes for 2-9 and with a
> chapter 99_Not_in_the_module_list (currently empty). Won't be that
> hard to do.
> 
I'd ignore the subchapters but add to the directory a text (or html) file
which contains that portion of the Module List text. That would show both
the subchapter headings and the module descriptions.

You'll need to deal with the fact that these chapter titles change
quite often. Maybe whipeout and recreate the symlink tree for every
Module List release (it'll be quick to mirror since it's mostly symlinks).


> JRhine>   >> by-module
> JRhine>   >>   Devel
> JRhine>   >>     Symdump-> ../../by-author/ANDK/Symdump-1.20.tar.gz
> JRhine> 

I presume that should read Devel-Symdump-1.20.tar.gz else it won't cope
with an author who has written both a Foo::Bar and a Baz::Bar module.
Take *::SysCalls as a possible example.


> This morning I was strolling around to fill
> the last few holes in the database and found GL-0.2.tar.gz and
> SGI-GL-0.2.tar.gz. I had to retrieve both, unpack and apply some
> hard-to-code heuristics to determine which one to ignore (it was GL-...).
> 
Another case of my requesting that names be changed :-)

Tim. 

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Thu Sep 28 19:19:08 1995
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN/doc/ old cruft, anyone fancy doing a cleanup? 
In-Reply-To: Jarkko Hietaniemi's message <199509252035.WAA00114@alpha.hut.fi> of Mon, 25 Sep 95 22:35:30 +0200.
References: <9509251921.AA01379@beta.hut.fi> <16599.812060555@mox> <199509252035.WAA00114@alpha.hut.fi> 
Date: Thu, 28 Sep 95 13:19:08 MDT
Message-Id: <16389.812315948@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

> Tom Christiansen writes:
>  > i would very much like it if the ancient (> one yea4r) slides
>  > of mine were removed.  they are so out of date that it's embarrassing.
>  > 
>  > --tom

> Me too very much like that -- but which slides? Please be painfully detailed.

anything that's not 1995.

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Mon Sep 25 11:27:16 1995
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi, andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: CPAN mod and pml
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 1995 12:27:16 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
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> From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
> 
>  > It would be nice if we could remove the inconsistency in the path
>  > below CPAN (mod/ vs no mod/).
> 
> I am 105% behind mod/ because that is the CPAN way

I agree.

  ...pml/ went online
> before the CPAN/ and therefore I adopted pml/ (Perl Module List, I presume)
> under the mod/ (modules aka extensions).
> 
> In short:	CPAN/mod/	is the CPAN
> 		mod/		is the 'bare' pml/
> 
Is there any reason to have two separate module trees?
A module (or extension) is a module and so should be in the Module List.
Are there modules in the CPAN which are not in the Module List?

Also, I can't see any good reason for anyone other than CPAN to mirror pml.
Everyone else should mirror the module tree from (as part of) CPAN.


>  > What's the path/sequence of mirrors? Who mirrors who?
> 
> franz is the pml master and pasteur mirrors franz.
> funet is the CPAN master and mirrors franz.
> funet CPAN is mirrored at least by janus and cis.

Thanks Jarkko.

Jarkko: Is CPAN officially on-line? Has it been announced yet?

Andreas: Is the 

Both: If not, what's still to be done before launch? A joint launch
with a big fan-fare seems appropriate :-)

(P.s. Does CPAN mirror ftp.netlabs(or sems).com:/pub/outgoing/perl5.0/ ?)

---

> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
> >  > It would be nice if we could remove the inconsistency in the path
> >  > below CPAN (mod/ vs no mod/).
> > 
> > I am 105% behind mod/ because that is the CPAN way...pml/ went online
> > before the CPAN/ and therefore I adopted pml/ (Perl Module List, I presume)
> > under the mod/ (modules aka extensions).
> 
> pml indeed stands for Perl Module List. The byauthor three was
> introduced to have room for a bymodule tree eventually. I don't think,
> a bymodule tree makes sense.

Eh? Why not? People are likely to say "You need the Foo::Bar module and
you can get it from CPAN" without remembering (or remembering to say)
who is currently 'owning' that module. I think a natural module tree is
needed.

Does/can 'mirror' mirror sym-links?

> We have the byauthor/00whois.html file
> and -- tadaam -- byauthor/00modlist.html (since an hour ago). Please
> check it out.
> 
> I'd like to move the 00 files one directory up (I have to rewrite them
> in order to have sane links in them). Tell me 'go ahead' and I'll do it.
> 
I agree that they should be one directory up.

---

> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
> >>>>> "Tim" == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk> writes:
> 
>     Tim> The next Module List (to be posted on the 25th) will say: ---
> 
>     Tim> Where Are The Modules Kept?
>  
>     Tim> A Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) of mirrored FTP
>     Tim> sites is being developed. Try one of these CPAN sites first:
>  
>     Tim> ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/
>     Tim> ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/CPAN/pml/byauthor/
>     Tim> ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/
>     Tim> ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/perl5.0/CPAN/pml/byauthor/
>     Tim> ftp://janus.sedl.org/pub/mirrors/CPAN/mod/pml/byauthor/
> 
> My 'pml' homepage currently puts it that way (subject to daily changes):
> 
>       Complete CPAN Server have the mod/pml/byauthor/ directory below 
>           ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/ 
>           ftp://ftp.delphi.com/pub/mirrors/packages/perl/CPAN/ 
>           ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/CPAN/ 
>           ftp://janus.sedl.org/pub/mirrors/CPAN/ 
>       byauthor tree only 
>           ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/CPAN/pml/byauthor/ 
>           ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/perl5.0/CPAN/pml/byauthor/ 

Uh, okay. I hope we get the inconsistency sorted soon.

>     Tim> I don't record per-module archive addresses because it would
>     Tim> take more time and effort than I can spare. At some point in
>     Tim> the future this list will be web-ified and module maintainers
>     Tim> will be able to maintain their own entries.
> 
> Done! Webified version is 00modlist.html (currently in the byauthor/
> directory). The last sentence should now be reworded, e.g.
> 
>     You should find a webified version of this modulelist a few days after
>     it is posted in the file 00modlist.html on the CPAN servers in the
>     byauthor/ directory (maybe in the pml/ directory).
> 
Great. Thanks.

Tim.

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Tue Sep 26 12:29:05 1995
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To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: Who sent me 'selfloader'?
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Tue, 26 Sep 1995 13:29:05 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
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> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
>     >> I do have a quite nice parser
>     >> for the modulelist which tells me the differences to my
>     >> database. The parser has an as_string method which returns the
>     >> modulelist exactly as it is including empty lines, but it
>     >> corrects a few errors. The asHTML method still needs some work.
>     >> 
>     Tim> Sending me a copy of the differences on the 6th and 21nd of
>     Tim> each month would be a good start.
> 
> I was so busy over the weekend with the HTML version, that I missed
> the 21st. Actually I think, it would be the best, if I sent you diffs
> *after* you post, that is now. I can also send you a list of people in
> the database, but I presume after a while my list should be bigger
> than yours.
> 
>     >> New Users --------- You and I can enter new users into the
>     >> database, thusly preventing duplicate userids. I would like to
>     >> invite you, Tim, to actually use this form.
> 
>     Tim> How does using the form differ from my just adding the names
>     Tim> to the module list and you parsing it?
> 
> No conflicts, should I (or e.g. Nick) ever add people.
> 
>     >> With the POST program from the lwp distribution you can do that
>     >> without a browser. Let me know, if that is feasible for you. Or
>     >> put otherwise: _I_ would sometimes like to invite people to put
>     >> their credentials into the database (recently an opengl module
>     >> writer and the xbase guy), but I do not want to do it without
>     >> your consensus. Let me know, how you would like it.
>     >> 
>     Tim> For the time being I'd rather remain the 'moderator' of the
>     Tim> list.
> 
> :-) Heureka! I never intended to ask for participation in maintaining
> the list, really not. I don't feel qualified at all to do it. You're
> doing an excellent job on it, and I'm happy if you keep doing it.
> 
[blush] I'd actually misinterpreted the issue. It seems your focus
above is just on registering userids/credentials. That's a much
simpler issue.

> The module list server has a different job to do. Gather the stuff and
> distribute it via CPAN. That's all. But this business is much wider
> than the modulelist, and the home directories are quite well suited to
> help more people than just those on the list. I was asking for the
> best way to avoid conflicts in userids between your module list and
> the server.
> 
Okay.

> How do we integrate those for which the modulelist doesn't
> (yet?/anymore?) offer a place? We should collect their works
> nonetheless.
>
Scripts, utilities etc. Yes, that's a good medium-term goal.

> One solution would be, that you enter new userids into the database
> and see, if they are accepted. This would even help you now to avoid
> entering a user twice, as you did with Aaron Sherman (AJS and ASHER).
> 
Ooops :-) I've contacted Aaron to ask which email address is best.
Thanks for spotting that.

You'd need a slightly fuzzy match to spot duplicates well (if presented
with different email addresses and different name spellings).

> Another solution came to my mind yesterday. I give them userids
> whenever I like and approve them after your next posting of the
> modulelist. In case of conflicts I inform you. Are there no conflicts,
> I start uploading their work.
> 
I'll try the first solution - we both register names via your database.
I think it's best not to let users pick their own userids. Between us
we can pick reasonable userids (preferably 5 chars, only 4 or 3 where
there is a good reason etc etc).

> andreas
> 
Tim. 

From k@anna.mind.de Fri Sep 29 11:53:49 1995
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Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 12:53:49 +0100
Message-Id: <199509291153.MAA23698@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: byauthor tree moved on franz
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

Good morning, Jarkko, good morning packrats,

I have done the first step to move the modulelist to

ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/pub/modules/

with currently only

    00whois.html
    00modlist.long.html
    by-author/

below it. As I have said yesterday, I'm going to implement a prototype
of two symlink trees

    by-module/
    by-category/

You would have to mirror the symlink trees with deletes for obvious
reasons.

andreas

From k@anna.mind.de Fri Sep 29 12:15:47 1995
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Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 13:15:47 +0100
Message-Id: <199509291215.NAA23759@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9509261331.ac12005@post.mail.demon.net> (message from Tim Bunce
	on Tue, 26 Sep 1995 13:29:05 +0100)
Subject: Re: Who sent me 'selfloader'?


    Tim> [blush] I'd actually misinterpreted the issue. It seems your focus
    Tim> above is just on registering userids/credentials. That's a much
    Tim> simpler issue.

Great!

    >> The module list server has a different job to do. Gather the stuff and
    >> distribute it via CPAN. That's all. But this business is much wider
    >> than the modulelist, and the home directories are quite well suited to
    >> help more people than just those on the list. I was asking for the
    >> best way to avoid conflicts in userids between your module list and
    >> the server.
    >> 
    Tim> Okay.

    >> How do we integrate those for which the modulelist doesn't
    >> (yet?/anymore?) offer a place? We should collect their works
    >> nonetheless.
    >> 
    Tim> Scripts, utilities etc. Yes, that's a good medium-term goal.

    >> One solution would be, that you enter new userids into the database
    >> and see, if they are accepted. This would even help you now to avoid
    >> entering a user twice, as you did with Aaron Sherman (AJS and ASHER).
    >> 
    Tim> Ooops :-) I've contacted Aaron to ask which email address is best.
    Tim> Thanks for spotting that.

Marc Hedlund and Gurusamy Sarathy have already corrected their
addresses themselves. So maybe you should send me the modulelist two
days before posting, I send you back diffs and put the html version on
the way. One day I could set up a mailagent to do that.

    Tim> You'd need a slightly fuzzy match to spot duplicates well (if presented
    Tim> with different email addresses and different name spellings).

Well, I'm currently only checking for the last name. Soundex is
feasible, but currently there are the two treed standing in the way...

    >> Another solution came to my mind yesterday. I give them userids
    >> whenever I like and approve them after your next posting of the
    >> modulelist. In case of conflicts I inform you. Are there no conflicts,
    >> I start uploading their work.
    >> 
    Tim> I'll try the first solution - we both register names via your database.
    Tim> I think it's best not to let users pick their own userids. Between us
    Tim> we can pick reasonable userids (preferably 5 chars, only 4 or 3 where
    Tim> there is a good reason etc etc).

Excellent. Thank you. I'm going to test the scripts now and add Alan
Stebbens (Term-Query) and the open-gl and the xbase guy. As soon as
you get an automated notification you know the tests are done.

    >> andreas
    >> 
    Tim> Tim. 

andreas

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Fri Sep 29 15:55:43 1995
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Date: Fri, 29 Sep 1995 17:55:43 +0200
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: forgot: CPAN/index/
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The various indices are now under CPAN/index/ (and there is now one
more, ls-ltR.gz).

++jhi;

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Fri Sep 29 15:57:02 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: the bugs database from perl.com into CPAN/bugs?
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Whaddayathink?

++jhi;

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Fri Sep 29 14:41:43 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
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Uh oh, three days not reading my email and so many packrats suggestions...
I may not have read them all or understood them -- or agreed on them :-)
But here are some things I have done during the last few days:

	mv mod modules
	cd modules
	mkdir perl4			# I think someone suggested
					# CPAN/perl4. I do not think so.
					# The Perl version difference
					# at the very top level is not
					# a good idea, better to push
					# it as deep as possible.
					# In modules the extension
					# mechanism differs so much
					# between p4 and p5 that the
					# earlyish directory separation
					# near the top is ok. Says I :-)
	mv misc/tkperl snmp/snmp* usub xmperl perl4
					# old, ancient
	rm -rf snmp			# the perl 5 snmp left in the
					# snmp directory was out of date,
					# the pml has much recent version
	rm -rf cursperl			# much newer version in the pml
	rm -rf pml			# nuke the old version of the pml
					# and start mirroring the pml
					# (franz:/pub/modules)
					# directly to CPAN/modules/
	mv db dbperl			# the DBPerl project is a biggie
					# and I dare not integrate it into
					# the pml unless they themselves go
					# ahead and do it

	Summa summarum for the modules/:

	modules/
		*.html
		by-author/
		dbperl/
		misc/
		perl4/

	(The new franz mirroring is still ongoing as I write...)

Various cleanup done in the doc/ subdirectory, moving ancient (pre-1994)
stuff into old/, excluding the FAQ mirrorings from perl.com so that there
are not multiple versions of the FAQ, only the one and only from
rtfm.mit.edu:.../news.answers.

Added the South African mirror to MIRRORED.BY.

Added some contact addresses to the MIRRORING.FROM.

Updated README and the rest to synch with the above changes.

I do not like the idea of CPAN/mirrors/ho.st.do.main because the very
basic idea of CPAN (at least as I see it) is to layer various Perl
resources into a coherent whole.

No, CPAN is not yet officially online. RSN. I need to sort a few
things out. Things like:

	- how the CPAN mirror sites can update the last_mirror
	  time stamps in the MIRRORED.BY?
	- better documentation, both at the top level and
	  at the first level subdirectories

Did I miss any of your great ideas? Either by not implementing it
or by not implementing it? :-)

++jhi;

From k@anna.mind.de Sun Oct  1 14:00:46 1995
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	 id PAA03625; Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:00:46 +0100
Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 15:00:46 +0100
Message-Id: <199510011400.PAA03625@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <199509291441.QAA03685@gamma.hut.fi> (message from Jarkko
	Hietaniemi on Fri, 29 Sep 1995 16:41:43 +0200)
Subject: Re: CPAN progress report
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "Jarkko" == Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi> writes:

    Jarkko> No, CPAN is not yet officially online. RSN. I need to sort a few
    Jarkko> things out. Things like:

    Jarkko> 	- how the CPAN mirror sites can update the last_mirror
    Jarkko> 	  time stamps in the MIRRORED.BY?

How about parsing the xferlog or some such? If you tell the mirrorers
that they should fetch e.g. MIRRORED.BY file or another dummy file
with zero bytes somewhere as the *last* file, you need no mail and
nothing. "Just" a perl script. Or don't you log accesses?

    Jarkko> 	- better documentation, both at the top level and
    Jarkko> 	  at the first level subdirectories

I like your comprehensive docs very much. Not much to read, yet very informative.

    Jarkko> Did I miss any of your great ideas? Either by not implementing it
    Jarkko> or by not implementing it? :-)

:-)

Will the soon-to-be-finished by-author and by-category trees be
mirrored with deletes?  I had a couple of problems to solve with my
database, that's why they aren't there yet, but maybe r...s....n.....


    Jarkko> ++jhi;


andreas

From jhi@beta.hut.fi Sun Oct  1 14:22:12 1995
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Date: Sun, 1 Oct 1995 16:22:12 +0200
Message-Id: <9510011422.AA28724@beta.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN progress report
In-Reply-To: <199510011400.PAA03625@anna.mind.de>
References: <199509291441.QAA03685@gamma.hut.fi>
	<199510011400.PAA03625@anna.mind.de>
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


 >     Jarkko> 	- how the CPAN mirror sites can update the last_mirror
 >     Jarkko> 	  time stamps in the MIRRORED.BY?
 > 
 > How about parsing the xferlog or some such? If you tell the mirrorers
 > that they should fetch e.g. MIRRORED.BY file or another dummy file
 > with zero bytes somewhere as the *last* file, you need no mail and
 > nothing. "Just" a perl script. Or don't you log accesses?

Yes, "we" most certainly do log accesses. The problem is that there is
something like 20-25 MB per day of it in ftp.funet.fi...also another
problem is that the logs are root-only. I am still looking for something
email-based.

 >     Jarkko> 	- better documentation, both at the top level and
 >     Jarkko> 	  at the first level subdirectories
 > 
 > I like your comprehensive docs very much. Not much to read, yet very informative.

My comprehensive docs? [turning to look behind] Moi? The READMEs I've
written? Ich habe keine Ahnung vor|ber du sprechst.

 >     Jarkko> Did I miss any of your great ideas? Either by not implementing it
 >     Jarkko> or by not implementing it? :-)
 > 
 > :-)
 > 
 > Will the soon-to-be-finished by-author and by-category trees be
 > mirrored with deletes?  I had a couple of problems to solve with my
 > database, that's why they aren't there yet, but maybe r...s....n.....

They are not mirrored with deletes because they are not alone in their
directory, modules/. Just give me a yell when the current by-author needs
a gentle, devastating, nuke.

++jhi;

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Mon Oct  2 22:33:30 1995
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Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:33:30 +0200
Message-Id: <199510022233.AAA16300@dol-guldur.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl5-porters@nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Perl 5 for VMS
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
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Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Any VMS-Perlist got a Perl 5 distribution (binary + libraries, 5.001m
preferably) to contribute to CPAN?

++jhi;

From k@anna.mind.de Tue Oct  3 09:52:03 1995
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Received: by anna.mind.de (940816.SGI.8.6.9/940406.SGI)
	 id KAA16035; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:52:03 +0100
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 10:52:03 +0100
Message-Id: <199510030952.KAA16035@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <199510022233.AAA16300@dol-guldur.hut.fi> (message from Jarkko
	Hietaniemi on Tue, 3 Oct 1995 00:33:30 +0200)
Subject: CPAN deletes, etc.
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----

Jarkko,

I have switched to traditional mirror from those who have an own ftp
space. I'm still bargaining with some of them to put their things
together in a nice way :) I mirror daily for the last three days and
every saturday for the last three weeks. That should be redundant
enough I suppose.

What about new documents as Tom's reference paper? Should I add it to
TOMC/ ? Do you have a nice place for it?

While I am at it, I also have some deletes for you here that bring us
a step further to canonical file names. ILYA's deletes are partly due
to his directory structure, which seems ok to me.


rm ./by-author/ADESC/DBD-mSQL-0.60pl0.tar.gz
rm ./by-author/ADESC/DBD-mSQL-0.60pl1.tar.gz
rm ./by-author/ADESC/DBD-mSQL-0.60pl2.tar.gz
rm ./by-author/ADESC/DBD-mSQL-0.60pl3.tar.gz
rm ./by-author/DMEGG/SGML-1.01.pm.announce
rm ./by-author/FMC/Sx-1.6.tar.gz
rm ./by-author/GAAS/lwp-0.03.tar.gz
rm ./by-author/GAAS/lwp-0.04.tar.gz
rm ./by-author/GSM/SNMP-1.3.tgz
rm ./by-author/ILYAZ/ExtUtils-Peek-0.3.tar.Z
rm ./by-author/ILYAZ/cperl-mode.el.1.12
rm ./by-author/ILYAZ/cperl-mode.el.1.13
rm ./by-author/ILYAZ/cperl-mode.el.1.14.gz
rm ./by-author/ILYAZ/etext0.4.5.tar.gz
rm ./by-author/ILYAZ/etext0.4.7.tar.gz
rm ./by-author/ILYAZ/perl5db-kit-0.7.tar.gz
rm ./by-author/LDS/CGI.pm-1.4
rm ./by-author/LDS/CGI.pm.1.53
rm ./by-author/MEWP/Sybase2b2.announc
rm ./by-author/PMQS/xsubpp-1.92.gz
rm ./by-author/PMQS/xsubpp-1.921.gz
rm ./by-author/TIMB/DBI-0.60.tar.Z


Regards,
andreas


As Raphael Manfredi has signed my public key in the meantime, I add my
signed public key here.

- -----BEGIN PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----
Version: 2.6.2i
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.3, an Emacs/PGP interface

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ioIPsdjAj3IVdjwhS5loTyjoIT2/OWC2FxCUV5rSyAo/mQQ9knx7PGaUl9ctAAUT
tC1BbmRyZWFzIEtvZW5pZyA8a29lbmlnQGZyYW56Lnd3LlRVLUJlcmxpbi5ERT6J
AJUCBRAwcO+wYOb8KOlZZVUBAVB1BAC1B/zPYWODvdOfEdLtdtqhR/H9ULyaVmOM
rS1TNpDdnQzzx8jzufHPJbWaY1XbOl3XYJy59lGUGN6rYKj91sDgvSmEL1ojHWmP
+Ox/FU9ZuNVvwz+qYbw031JLDKX6JWyby6kr742SDX/2Cw99knzh3VpdCUwZYjAq
DZDrUwUx+4kAlQMFEDBw/xB8ezxmlJfXLQEBpcED/0vP1gyeKTGZGZTg94OzdWlg
1fRjoVIXqwc10Fce6HnodJ5ScTiVaspA/ppq0p0eKoArPmGxy6ZjX3urr4PtdRck
5HWf0p8K1pBJ65P7x+vOlN3/v9L9kxtUjHxn/4U0X+xAhOlYQuz3FIdnGz7EDnaK
6z2ss1hdSC1mTrAF4JME
=zlTu
- -----END PGP PUBLIC KEY BLOCK-----




-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: 2.6.2i
Comment: Processed by Mailcrypt 3.3, an Emacs/PGP interface

iQCVAwUBMHEHDnx7PGaUl9ctAQE3/QP/eyZjijZRy8hvnuCCj8vYEYxiFdpBM859
eLlQyGiRgwXzkvN01oXdoUKIXEiqh5c5EoHqVt8x8+FFO/G3OtRimTEHMfeBlHcD
cDzirZBvRh9Q6+25fwFP0acW+dPt78ZRpX+gsFrCeoOSP7V9ywtfA3gB95znY1+c
apLyNlProuY=
=u+i6
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Tue Oct  3 13:52:16 1995
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To: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: CPAN database
Reply-To: tchrist@perl.com
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 07:52:16 MDT
Message-Id: <10436.812728336@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

I'm not entirely thrilled by the current search capabilities on the
CPAN stuff.

Could we set up records something like this:

module		CGI.pm
ident		LDS
version		1.56
author		Lincoln Stein <somewhere@somewhere>
home		http://www-genome.wi.mit.edu/ftp/pub/software/WWW/CGI.pm.tar.Z
		ftp://somewhere-else
keywords	OO blah blah


I don't know how to keep all the fields right, but it would be nice to
do queries against that kind of a thing.

--tom

From k@anna.mind.de Tue Oct  3 14:55:31 1995
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	 id PAA17168; Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:55:31 +0100
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 15:55:31 +0100
Message-Id: <199510031455.PAA17168@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: tchrist@perl.com
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
In-Reply-To: <10436.812728336@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Tue, 03
	Oct 95 07:52:16 MDT)
Subject: Re: CPAN database
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "Tom" == Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:

    Tom> I'm not entirely thrilled by the current search capabilities on the
    Tom> CPAN stuff.

Give me another few hours, I'm quite close to solve the puzzle with
the two symlink trees (by-module/ and by-category/). Don't know, if
it will be the best possible solution, but it's a starter.

    Tom> Could we set up records something like this:

    Tom> module		CGI.pm
    Tom> ident		LDS

That's what I have in my database.

    Tom> version		1.56

That's what I am fighting with and why it took me so long. I don't
have the version number in the database. But at least I'm close to
have the symlink tree, that points to the *latest version*, not only
to ../LDS/.

    Tom> author		Lincoln Stein <somewhere@somewhere>

That's in 00authors.html, updated daily from the database I have
here. BTW, just now I entered TOMC's homepage as http://www.perl.com.

    Tom> home		http://www-genome.wi.mit.edu/ftp/pub/software/WWW/CGI.pm.tar.Z
    Tom> 		ftp://somewhere-else

And one homepage (http or ftp) for the author is also in 00authors.html.

Not all packages have a home in my concept. Some have been uploaded
and some have secret homes. For those that have a public place besides
CPAN, the links in 00authors.html lead you the way.

    Tom> keywords	OO blah blah

Are you volunteering, Tom? Where do we get the keywords from? We have
discussed the keywords issue. Silence after the first proposals.


    Tom> I don't know how to keep all the fields right, but it would be nice to
    Tom> do queries against that kind of a thing.

At least it is necessary to design the tables normalized, that is
seperate authors from modules. Authors is done, you can easily query
against 00authors.html, I suppose. I can give away the table
also. Don't know yet for modules....

    Tom> --tom

andreas

From jhi@beta.hut.fi Tue Oct  3 23:19:08 1995
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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 01:19:08 +0200
Message-Id: <9510032319.AA18512@beta.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: CPAN rollout time?
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
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Is there anything verrry important missing/some things to organise
from/in the CPAN you would like to see in there? I mean, like, before
I announce the thing in c.l.p.a? I perhaps should write something
shortish READMEs and stuff which for example explain why there is not
CPAN/incoming/... Reason 1: I am too lazy to maintain such things
after rigging up all the umpteen mirrors :-) But seriously: if people
want to contribute docs/scripts/modules/stuff there should be
well-defined things for them to do? If its modules/scripts there
are metronet and franz, right? I guess I can try managing/arranging
the rest.

++jhi;

P.S. Yes, I decided that updating the last_mirror fields in MIRRORED.BY
     can wait.

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Tue Oct  3 23:46:55 1995
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To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: CPAN database 
In-Reply-To: Andreas Koenig's message <199510031455.PAA17168@anna.mind.de> of Tue, 03 Oct 95 15:55:31 BST.
References: <199510031455.PAA17168@anna.mind.de> 
Date: Tue, 03 Oct 95 17:46:55 MDT
Message-Id: <20543.812764015@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

> Give me another few hours, I'm quite close to solve the puzzle with
> the two symlink trees (by-module/ and by-category/). Don't know, if
> it will be the best possible solution, but it's a starter.

that could be nice.  i've had a lot of difficulty finding good 
fast CPAN mirrors.  the stuff in europe is glacially slow.

>     Tom> Could we set up records something like this:
>     Tom> module		CGI.pm
>     Tom> ident		LDS
> That's what I have in my database.

cool.  then could you mail it out so i can write query
engines against it please?

>     Tom> version		1.56

> That's what I am fighting with and why it took me so long. I don't
> have the version number in the database. But at least I'm close to
> have the symlink tree, that points to the *latest version*, not only
> to ../LDS/.

hm...  hm....  i'm thinking some db fields should have
lists maybe?  1.54, 1.56

>     Tom> author		Lincoln Stein <somewhere@somewhere>

> That's in 00authors.html, updated daily from the database I have
> here. BTW, just now I entered TOMC's homepage as http://www.perl.com.

oh, thanks.  still, a real db would seem cool.

> Not all packages have a home in my concept. Some have been uploaded
> and some have secret homes. For those that have a public place besides
> CPAN, the links in 00authors.html lead you the way.

how come you don't use people's login IDs to ident them?  i'm 
better known as tchrist than tomc.  i haven't been tomc in many
years.

>     Tom> keywords	OO blah blah

> Are you volunteering, Tom? Where do we get the keywords from? We have
> discussed the keywords issue. Silence after the first proposals.

i'll make them up if no one does.  

didn't i hear that linux has a module query dbase?

> At least it is necessary to design the tables normalized, that is
> seperate authors from modules. Authors is done, you can easily query
> against 00authors.html, I suppose. I can give away the table
> also. Don't know yet for modules....

i don't really want to manually search many pages.  i just
want to make queries and get back answers.

--tom

From jhi@beta.hut.fi Wed Oct  4 00:16:45 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: CPAN database 
In-Reply-To: <20543.812764015@mox>
References: <199510031455.PAA17168@anna.mind.de>
	<20543.812764015@mox>
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Thus spake tomc: (sic :-)

tomc> that could be nice.  i've had a lot of difficulty finding good 
tomc> fast CPAN mirrors.  the stuff in europe is glacially slow.

The current list for CPAN is:

        ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/
        ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/lang/perl/CPAN/
        ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/CPAN/
        ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/computing/unix/perl/
        ftp://ftp.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/pub/programming/languages/perl/CPAN/
        ftp://orpheu.ci.uminho.pt/pub/lang/perl/
        ftp://ftp.is.co.za/programming/perl/CPAN/
        ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/CPAN/
        ftp://uiarchive.cso.uiuc.edu/pub/lang/perl/CPAN/
        ftp://ftp.delphi.com/pub/mirrors/packages/perl/CPAN/
        ftp://janus.sedl.org/pub/mirrors/CPAN/
        ftp://ftp.sterling.com/programming/languages/perl/

Found them all lacking?

About the sluggishness of Europe:
AFAIK: the funet link situation in Mbit/s, the first number being the
bandwidth in "early autumn", the second being "late autumn":

 Finland - Sweden 4..8  (the central hub of NORDUnet is in Stockholm)
 Sweden  - USA    4..24 (yes, the new fat link should be in there RSN)
 Sweden  - GB     2
 Sweden  - rest   2/4   (Ebone 2, EMPB 4, GB 2, Netherlands 2)
           of
           Europe
           
http://www.nordu.net/, http://www.ebone.net, http://www.dante.net/
will tell more if needed.
 
I do not know thru which links does an ftp from, say, perl.com, to .nl
go, via GB or directly, but the .fi and .se links definitely will go
through NORDUnet.

++jhi;

From jhi@beta.hut.fi Wed Oct  4 00:26:31 1995
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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 02:26:31 +0200
Message-Id: <9510040026.AA25904@beta.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: CPAN perl-5.001m.tar.gz needed
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Anyone got a pristine, 105% working, tried and tested,
perl-5.001m.tar.gz that I could tuck into CPAN/src/latest/? I tried
taking the 'dist' 5.001 and applying all the a-m patches but I managed
to garble the job somehow, the resulting Configure sputters and dies.

++jhi;

From Tim.Bunce@ignite.demon.co.uk Tue Oct  3 02:00:13 1995
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi, jared@organic.com
Subject: Re: CPAN module section structure
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:00:13 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
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> From: Jared Rhine <jared@organic.com>
> 
> The division of by-category is difficult to do, as I'm loath to just say
> 'PML-section-1', and it is very hard to come up with names that accurately
> describe everything contained in a given PML section.  I could claim that
> the fact that it is difficult to break the PML into cogent categories is a
> failing of the PML, but I'm not about to disparage one of the best resources
> our community has.

:-)

You're *very* welcome to try to come up with a set of categories (between,
say, 10 and 30) and list each module only once.

One day, when the module list is fully database driven we could allow
modules to have multiple secondary categories and setup CPAN symlinks to suit.

> While I'm on CPAN/mod, I would like to register my opinion that it would be
> more intuitive and easier for beginners to navigate if we renamed CPAN/mod
> to CPAN/modules.
> 
I agree.

Tim.

From k@anna.mind.de Wed Oct  4 07:47:56 1995
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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 08:47:56 +0100
Message-Id: <199510040747.IAA21226@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: tchrist@mox.perl.com
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
In-Reply-To: <20543.812764015@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Tue, 03
	Oct 95 17:46:55 MDT)
Subject: Re: CPAN database
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "Tom" == Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:

    >> Give me another few hours, I'm quite close to solve the puzzle with

These hours tend to be long ...

    >> the two symlink trees (by-module/ and by-category/). Don't know, if
    >> it will be the best possible solution, but it's a starter.

    Tom> that could be nice.  i've had a lot of difficulty finding good 
    Tom> fast CPAN mirrors.  the stuff in europe is glacially slow.

    Tom> Could we set up records something like this:
    Tom> module		CGI.pm
    Tom> ident		LDS
    >> That's what I have in my database.

    Tom> cool.  then could you mail it out so i can write query
    Tom> engines against it please?

I'm running a dump every night, and put it into
ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/incoming/moddump.current. This is just for
my personal convenience, but we can institutionalize it that way. I
don't think, the dump is a candidate for CPAN. For today I send you a
copy in PM.

    Tom> version		1.56

    >> That's what I am fighting with and why it took me so long. I don't
    >> have the version number in the database. But at least I'm close to
    >> have the symlink tree, that points to the *latest version*, not only
    >> to ../LDS/.

    Tom> hm...  hm....  i'm thinking some db fields should have
    Tom> lists maybe?  1.54, 1.56

Don't think so. A regex for each package and then an alpha sort on all
hits should give you the latest version. Few exeptions exist and we
will get rid of them with time passing by.

    Tom> author		Lincoln Stein <somewhere@somewhere>

    >> That's in 00authors.html, updated daily from the database I have
    >> here. BTW, just now I entered TOMC's homepage as http://www.perl.com.

    Tom> oh, thanks.  still, a real db would seem cool.

    >> Not all packages have a home in my concept. Some have been uploaded
    >> and some have secret homes. For those that have a public place besides
    >> CPAN, the links in 00authors.html lead you the way.

    Tom> how come you don't use people's login IDs to ident them?  i'm 
    Tom> better known as tchrist than tomc.  i haven't been tomc in many
    Tom> years.

Tim picked the name, and as he has limited himself to use 5 letters, I
suppose, he thought tchri wouldn't make you happy either.

    Tom> keywords	OO blah blah

    >> Are you volunteering, Tom? Where do we get the keywords from? We have
    >> discussed the keywords issue. Silence after the first proposals.

    Tom> i'll make them up if no one does.  

Great! That would be a very valuable addition to CPAN!

    Tom> didn't i hear that linux has a module query dbase?

Yes, they have all these *.lsm files around that act as a
database. Harvest has put a broker on top of it. See
http://town.hall.org/Harvest/brokers/lsm/ how it works.

    >> At least it is necessary to design the tables normalized, that is
    >> seperate authors from modules. Authors is done, you can easily query
                                                       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >> against 00authors.html, I suppose. I can give away the table
       ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    >> also. Don't know yet for modules....

    Tom> i don't really want to manually search many pages.  i just
    Tom> want to make queries and get back answers.

What I _wanted_ to say, is that _you_, Tom, are certainly able to
write a cute program that parses 00authors.html and uses it as the
database in one, two, three!

    Tom> --tom

andreas

From neilb@zen.khoros.unm.edu Wed Oct  4 08:26:30 1995
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From: neilb@khoral.com (Neil Bowers)
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 02:26:30 MDT
In-Reply-To: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
       "CPAN perl-5.001m.tar.gz needed" (Oct  4,  2:26am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN perl-5.001m.tar.gz needed
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Reply-To: neilb@khoral.com
Organization: Khoral Research, Inc.

Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi> asked:
> 
> Anyone got a pristine, 105% working, tried and tested,
> perl-5.001m.tar.gz that I could tuck into CPAN/src/latest/? [...]

        ftp://ftp.wpi.edu/perl5/perl5.001m.tar.gz
	ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl/source/perl5.001m.tar.gz

neilb

From Tim.Bunce@ignite.demon.co.uk Tue Oct  3 12:18:34 1995
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi, andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: CPAN deletes, etc.
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 13:18:34 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
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> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
> What about new documents as Tom's reference paper? Should I add it to
> TOMC/ ? Do you have a nice place for it?

> rm ./by-author/GAAS/lwp-0.04.tar.gz
> rm ./by-author/ILYAZ/cperl-mode.el.1.14.gz
> rm ./by-author/ILYAZ/etext0.4.7.tar.gz
> rm ./by-author/ILYAZ/perl5db-kit-0.7.tar.gz
> rm ./by-author/PMQS/xsubpp-1.921.gz

Umm, all this raises the issues of if/how the _module_ server should
serve other types of files.

The Module Server is a wonderful mechanism and it's natural that
we should look at using it for managing the mirroring of other
author supplied/defined files.

On the other hand putting non-module files under /modules/...
is not ideal.

Does the module server know which files are modules?
Does it mirror individual files or directories (or both)?

Perhaps a CPAN/authors/* tree would be useful, even if it was
just symlinks to CPAN/modules/by-author/*. It would provide a
non-module path to anything an author wanted mirrored.

It might be handy to have both userid and username forms, e.g.,
CPAN/authors/TIMB/ and CPAN/authors/Tim_Bunce/

Tim.

From k@anna.mind.de Wed Oct  4 10:30:41 1995
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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:30:41 +0100
Message-Id: <199510041030.LAA21788@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Sent-Via: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: by-module, by-category
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

Finally, it's done. Looking forward to feedback. Feedback
as enthusiastic approval or as code donation preferred :).

I append the script that did it in case you have ideas.

Tim, the current trees do not yet reflect the blueprint modulelist you
sent me today, but in general the 99 directory might be an interesting
place for you. It shows you all the packages that haven't yet found a
place in the modulelist. (which doesn't imply, that they need one)

I intend to run this script every hour, so if NI-S/Tk-b9.tar.gz
arrives, it will be added automatically. From time to time I will
delete both trees and the program will rebuid them. So, Jarkko, you
can delete the trees, say, every saturday, and we won't have to
exchange email about it.


Enjoy,
andreas


#!/usr/bin/perl -w
require Private; # holds $Config->{MLROOT}, the absolute pathname to the by-author tree
use File::Path;
use ExtUtils::Manifest;
use strict;

#$::Config->{MLROOT} = "test/by-author";

my $abs;
chdir $::Config->{MLROOT} or die "Couldn't chdir to $::Config->{MLROOT}";
chop($abs=`pwd`);

@::ALL = keys %{ExtUtils::Manifest::manifind()};


my $chaptitle = {qw[
02 02_Core_Modules
03 03_Development_Support
04 04_Operating_System
05 05_Networking
06 06_Data_Types
07 07_Database
08 08_User_Interfaces
09 09_Programming_Languages
10 10_File_Names_Systems_Locking
11 11_Text_Processing
12 12_Option_Argument_Configuration
13 13_Internationalization
14 14_Security
15 15_World_Wide_Web
16 16_Server
17 17_Archiving
18 18_Images_Manipulation
19 19_Mail_News
20 20_Control_Flow 
21 21_File_Handle_Input_Output
22 22_Miscellaneous
99 99_Not_In_Modulelist
]};

$::SEEN = {};
while (<DATA>) {
    next if /^\s*$/;
    chomp;
    my($str,$chap,$subchap) = split;
    $str =~ s,/,\/,g;
    my @selection = sort grep /^$str/, @::ALL;
    next unless @selection;
    my $newest = $selection[-1];
    for (@selection) {
	$::SEEN->{$_}++;
    }
###    my($dir,$target) = $newest =~ m,(.*)/(.*),g;
    my($dir,$target) = (split /\//, $newest)[0,-1];
    chdir $abs;
#    print qq{mkpath("../by-module/$subchap");\n};
    mkpath("../by-module/$subchap");
    chdir("../by-module/$subchap");
#    print qq{symlink "../../by-author/$newest", $target;\n};
    symlink "../../by-author/$newest", $target or warn "$target: $!";
    symlink "../../by-author/$dir", $dir or warn "$dir: $!";

    chdir $abs;
#    print qq{mkpath("../by-category/$chaptitle->{$chap}/$subchap");\n};
    mkpath("../by-category/$chaptitle->{$chap}/$subchap");
    chdir("../by-category/$chaptitle->{$chap}/$subchap");
#    print qq{symlink "../../../by-author/$newest", $target;\n};
    symlink "../../../by-author/$newest", $target or warn "$target: $!";
    symlink "../../../by-author/$dir", $dir or warn "$dir: $!";
}

for (@::ALL) {
    print ">>>$_\n" unless $::SEEN->{$_};
}
__END__
PMQS/Filter-                  02 Filter
MICB/Safe-b                   02 Safe
JACKS/SelfLoader-             02 SelfLoader
JACKS/SelfStubber             02 SelfLoader
GBARR/AddINC-                 03 AddINC
ANDK/Symdump-                 03 Devel
DMR/DProf\.apr                03 Devel
JACKS/CallerItem-             03 Devel
JACKS/DumpStack-              03 Devel
JACKS/Usage-beta              03 Devel
ANDK/MakeMaker-               03 ExtUtils
ILYAZ/ExtUtils-Peek-          03 ExtUtils
KJALB/Ioctl-                  04 Ioctl
AMOSS/SGI-FM-                 04 SGI
AMOSS/SGI-GL-                 04 SGI
AMOSS/SGI-SysCalls-           04 SGI
GBARR/AlarmCall-              04 Sys
GBARR/Sys-Domain-             04 Sys
JACKS/IPC_SysV\.              05 IPC
GBARR/Net-FTP-                05 Net
GBARR/NetTools-               05 Net
SPIDB/Net-ext-a               05 Net
GSM/SNMP-                     05 SNMP
DMR/Class-Eroot\.             06 Class
GBARR/Date-GetDate-           06 Date
TOMC/GetDate\.                06 Date
ILYAZ/FreezeThaw-             06 FreezeThaw
ILYAZ/MathPari_a              06 Math
JHI/Set-Scalar-               06 Set
JKAST/StatisticsDescriptive-  06 Statistics
GSAR/Tie-IxHash-              06 Tie
ADESC/DBD-mSQL-               07 DBD
TIMB/DBD-Oracle-              07 DBD
TIMB/DBI-                     07 DBI
IANPX/DBZ_File                07 DBZ_File
ANDK/MsqlPerl-                07 Msql
TIMB/DBD-Oracle-              07 Oraperl
MEWP/sybperl-                 07 Sybase
WPS/Curses-a                  08 Curses
AGUL/perlvision\.tgz          08 PV
FMC/Sx-                       08 Sx
AKSTE/Term-Query-             08 Term
ILYAZ/Term-Gnuplot-           08 Term
ILYAZ/Term-ReadLine-          08 Term
KJALB/Term-Info-              08 Term
KJALB/TermReadKey-            08 Term
NI-S/Tk-b                     08 Tk
JACKS/Prolog-alpha            09 Language
MICB/Tcl-b                    09 Tcl
MICB/TclTk-b                  09 Tcl
GAAS/CounterFile-             10 File
TYEMQ/FileKGlob\.             10 File
GAAS/AFM-                     11 Font
DMEGG/SGMLSpm-                11 SGMLS
IANPX/Stem-                   11 Text
ILYAZ/Text-Trie-              11 Text
MICB/Des-perl-a               14 Des
NWINT/MD                      14 MD5
MGH/Response\.pm              15 CGI
GAAS/libwww-perl-             15 HTML
GAND/HTML-                    15 HTML
TOMC/Simple\.pm               15 HTML
YLU/HTML-QuickCheck-          15 HTML
GAAS/libwww-perl-             15 HTTP
GAAS/libwww-perl-             15 LWP
GAAS/MIME\.                   15 MIME
GAAS/libwww-perl-             15 MIME
GAAS/libwww-perl-             15 URI
GAAS/libwww-perl-             15 WWW
JACKS/EventDrivenServer-      16 Server
JACKS/InitializeServer-       16 Server
LDS/GD-                       18 GD
STANM/OpenGL-                 18 OpenGL
GBARR/MailTools-              19 Mail
RVA/NNTPClient-               19 News
GBOSS/perl_archie\.           22 Archie
OZAWA/Roman-                  22 Roman
ILYAZ/etext/etext\.html	      99 etext
ILYAZ/etext/etext\.README	      99 etext
NWINT/SHA-                    99 SHA
ILYAZ/etext/etext\d           99 etext
LDS/CGI-modules\.             15 CGI
LDS/CGI\.pm-                  15 CGI
RAM/Storable-                 99 Storable
JACKS/UNIVERSAL-              02 UNIVERSAL
GSAR/Dumper-                  99 Dumper
JACKS/Socket\.                99 Socket
KJALB/SetDualVar-             99 SetDualVar
TOMC/diagnostics\.            99 diagnostics
ILYAZ/perl5db-kit-            99 perl5db
PMQS/xsubpp-                  99 xsubpp
MERGL/pgperl5-                07 Pg
SHGUN/CGI-Lite-               15 CGI
ILYAZ/cperl-mode/cperl-mode\.el\.        99 emacs
NI-S/Ptty-                    99 Ptty
WINKO/Parity-                 99 Parity

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Wed Oct  4 10:53:32 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN perl-5.001m.tar.gz needed
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:53:32 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id: <9510041218.aa12625@relay-1.mail.demon.net>


> From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
> 
> Anyone got a pristine, 105% working, tried and tested,
> perl-5.001m.tar.gz that I could tuck into CPAN/src/latest/? I tried
> taking the 'dist' 5.001 and applying all the a-m patches but I managed
> to garble the job somehow, the resulting Configure sputters and dies.
> 
> ++jhi;
> 
I don't think CPAN would be *C*PAN without mirroring ftp.netlabs.com!

You'll find a "pristine, 105% working, tried and tested" perl5.001.tar.gz there.

Tim.

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Wed Oct  4 10:55:00 1995
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To: tchrist@mox.perl.com, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN database
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:55:00 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
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> From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
> 
> Thus spake tomc: (sic :-)
> 
> tomc> that could be nice.  i've had a lot of difficulty finding good 
> tomc> fast CPAN mirrors.  the stuff in europe is glacially slow.
> 
> The current list for CPAN is:
> 
>         ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/
>         ftp://ftp.sunet.se/pub/lang/perl/CPAN/
>         ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/CPAN/
>         ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/computing/unix/perl/
>         ftp://ftp.rz.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/pub/programming/languages/perl/CPAN/
>         ftp://orpheu.ci.uminho.pt/pub/lang/perl/
>         ftp://ftp.is.co.za/programming/perl/CPAN/
>         ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/CPAN/
>         ftp://uiarchive.cso.uiuc.edu/pub/lang/perl/CPAN/
>         ftp://ftp.delphi.com/pub/mirrors/packages/perl/CPAN/
>         ftp://janus.sedl.org/pub/mirrors/CPAN/
>         ftp://ftp.sterling.com/programming/languages/perl/
> 
> Found them all lacking?
> 
Don't forget

          ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/mirrors/perl/CPAN/

This is *really* fast for demon's 36,000 users in the UK :-)
A symlink to ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/perl/CPAN will appear later.

> About the sluggishness of Europe:
> AFAIK: the funet link situation in Mbit/s, the first number being the
> bandwidth in "early autumn", the second being "late autumn":
> 
>  Finland - Sweden 4..8  (the central hub of NORDUnet is in Stockholm)
>  Sweden  - USA    4..24 (yes, the new fat link should be in there RSN)
>  Sweden  - GB     2
>  Sweden  - rest   2/4   (Ebone 2, EMPB 4, GB 2, Netherlands 2)
>            of
>            Europe
>
> http://www.nordu.net/, http://www.ebone.net, http://www.dante.net/
> will tell more if needed.
>  
> I do not know thru which links does an ftp from, say, perl.com, to .nl
> go, via GB or directly, but the .fi and .se links definitely will go
> through NORDUnet.
> 
Demon have announced plans for a new 3Mbit link to the US in addition
to their 2 x 256K links. I can't recall the timescale off-hand.

Tim.

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Wed Oct  4 16:23:49 1995
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To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: tchrist@mox.perl.com, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi, andreas.koenig@mind.de,
        perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: CPAN database 
In-Reply-To: Tim Bunce's message <9510041218.ab12625@relay-1.mail.demon.net> of Wed, 04 Oct 95 11:55:00 BST.
References: <9510041218.ab12625@relay-1.mail.demon.net> 
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 10:23:49 MDT
Message-Id: <7363.812823829@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

>           ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/mirrors/perl/CPAN/

> This is *really* fast for demon's 36,000 users in the UK :-)
> A symlink to ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/perl/CPAN will appear later.

fixed on my home page, which needs to have the perl stuff broken up like
the magic stuff is.

--tom

From jared@organic.com Wed Oct  4 16:49:46 1995
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From: Jared Rhine <jared@organic.com>
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN module section structure
References: <9510031246.bh26504@relay-3.mail.demon.net>
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[Citation date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:00:13 +0100]
TB == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>

  JR> The division of by-category is difficult to do, as I'm loath to just
  JR> say 'PML-section-1', and it is very hard to come up with names that
  JR> accurately describe everything contained in a given PML section.

  TB> You're *very* welcome to try to come up with a set of categories
  TB> (between, say, 10 and 30) and list each module only once.

I would argue that one of the primary advantages of electronic environments
is that resources don't have to exist in only a single category.  Single
categories work well for physical resources (like books) and for
comprehensive lists.  Note the fact that the best thing we've gotten out of
the PML for the CPAN is the by-author listing, which is an appropriate
single categorization.  For real resource discovery, a single by-category
fails, since as you've suggested, modules can rightly belong in more than
one category.

When faced with problems like this, my usual approach is to employ a
keyword-based approach (which has already been brought up).  You describe
each resource by a set of keywords (databases, www, etc) chosen from a
controlled vocabulary (that is to say, you don't use any keyword that comes
to mind, you must choose from a list).  To create the index, you create a
directory structure with an item for each keyword.  Every item described by
that keyword can be found in that directory, but that's not to say it's not
also found in other directories, corresponding to other keywords.  Symlinks
provide a convenient mechanism for placing resources in multiple
directories.

My proposal, then:

  + Continue to use PML as it currently stands.  It should continue to be
    the canonical listing of modules and the source for author
    identification.

  + Create a bibliographic entry for each module on the PML.  Each
    bibliographic entry should include a list of keywords, chosen from a
    well-known list of keywords (usually called a vocabulary).

  + Create scripts which take the bibliographic entries and automatically
    create a 'by-keyword' tree by symlinking an entry from each directory to
    the by-author tree.

  + Create a search engine which uses the bibliographic entries to allow one
    to form queries like "What modules are described by both the 'database'
    and 'www' keywords?"

A more sophisticated approach uses multiple vocabularies (say one to
describe the operating system, one to describe the exact database backend,
another to describe the particular aspect of www work), but I think that's
probably overkill for the size of the resource set we're talking about.

  TB> One day, when the module list is fully database driven we could allow
  TB> modules to have multiple secondary categories and setup CPAN symlinks
  TB> to suit.

Ah, yes.  I see you agree.  Good argument for reading the whole message one
is responding to before responding.  I can't bring myself to just delete
this message, though, so at least this message will be in the archives for
later reference :)

A big round of applause for everyone actually doing work to make the CPAN
happen.  Thanks.

-- 
jared@organic.com / Organic Online / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home>

"To go outside the mythos is to become insane...." -- Robert Pirsig

From jhi@beta.hut.fi Wed Oct  4 17:21:58 1995
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Date: Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:21:58 +0200
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN perl-5.001m.tar.gz needed
In-Reply-To: <9510041218.aa12625@relay-1.mail.demon.net>
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 > I don't think CPAN would be *C*PAN without mirroring ftp.netlabs.com!

Mirroring *whole* hosts into CPAN is not the goal and seldom a good idea,
even if the host be ftp.netlabs.com. The main reason not to is that I
personally see the role of CPAN as presenting a logical(ish) whole,
not just a collection of mirrors from hosts x, y, and z.

 > You'll find a "pristine, 105% working, tried and tested" perl5.001.tar.gz there.

That doth not a perl5.001m.tar.gz make.

++jhi;

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Wed Oct  4 17:43:56 1995
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        tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: CPAN perl-5.001m.tar.gz needed 
In-Reply-To: Jarkko Hietaniemi's message <9510041721.AA28018@beta.hut.fi> of Wed, 04 Oct 95 19:21:58 +0200.
References: <9510041218.aa12625@relay-1.mail.demon.net> <9510041721.AA28018@beta.hut.fi> 
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 95 11:43:56 MDT
Message-Id: <9158.812828636@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

> That doth not a perl5.001m.tar.gz make.


my word!  dost thou employ the 2nd person as well? :-)

silly ferriners, better educated than us natives in our
own tongue. :-)

--tom

From jhi@beta.hut.fi Wed Oct  4 17:49:51 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Cc: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi, Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com
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The Barbarian from the Frozen Northern Wastes uttered:
jhi> That doth not a perl5.001m.tar.gz make.

Thus spake Tom Christiansen:
 > my word!  dost thou employ the 2nd person as well? :-)

Not unless provoked :-)

 > silly ferriners, better educated than us natives in our
 > own tongue. :-)
 > 
 > --tom

++jhi;

From eichin@cygnus.com Wed Oct  4 17:56:49 1995
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, perl-packrats@metronet.com, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
In-Reply-To: <9510041721.AA28018@beta.hut.fi> (message from Jarkko Hietaniemi
	on Wed, 4 Oct 1995 19:21:58 +0200)
Subject: Re: CPAN perl-5.001m.tar.gz needed


: > You'll find a "pristine, 105% working, tried and tested" perl5.001.tar.gz there.
: That doth not a perl5.001m.tar.gz make.

I thought of that when I saw the message -- because the raw "5.001"
that is on the CPAN sites has a broken eval, and thus is useless
(especially for things like the RedHat Package Manager, a linux
installation tool written in perl5...)

So I actually went and looked. ftp.netlabs.com:pub/outgoing/perl5.0
contains perl5.001l.tar.gz and perl5.00lm.tar.gz, which *is* what
you're looking for.
					_Mark_ <eichin@cygnus.com>
					Cygnus Support, Eastern USA

From jhi@beta.hut.fi Wed Oct  4 18:12:36 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Mark Eichin <eichin@cygnus.com>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN perl-5.001m.tar.gz needed
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_Mark_ <eichin@cygnus.com>:
 > So I actually went and looked. ftp.netlabs.com:pub/outgoing/perl5.0
 > contains perl5.001l.tar.gz and perl5.00lm.tar.gz, which *is* what
 > you're looking for.

I stand corrected. Still, I will not start mirroring ftp.netlabs.com
into CPAN for the reasons I mentioned, not at least as
.../mirrors/ftp.netlabs.com.

++jhi;

From k@anna.mind.de Thu Oct  5 08:13:59 1995
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Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:13:59 +0100
Message-Id: <199510050813.JAA25720@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9510041311.aa19301@relay-1.mail.demon.net> (message from Tim
	Bunce on Wed, 4 Oct 1995 13:04:22 +0100)
Subject: Re: CPAN deletes, etc.
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

I post, what Tim and I exchanged in PM. I arranged the message to have
the last lines at the front...

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk> writes:

    Tim> I've censored the m word for you!

:-))

    Tim> Tim.

    Tim> p.s. Any reason why you didn't CC this to the packrats?

No, that was a mistake. I told emacs not to CC to me, but made a
mistake in doing so... It's fixed now.


    >> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
    >> 
    Tim> Perhaps a CPAN/authors/* tree would be useful, even if it was
    Tim> just symlinks to CPAN/m______/by-author/*. It would provide a
    Tim> non-m____ path to anything an author wanted mirrored.
    >> 
    >> Maybe remap like so:
    >> 
    >> CPAN/authors/Alligator_Descartes  ->  CPAN/m______/by-author/ADESC/
    >> 
    >> If we do this, we can just sweep the fact under the carpet, that we
    >> started out to have everything below the m______/ directory.
    >> 
    Tim> Yes. I'd actually suggest having _both_ the short and long forms. Long
    Tim> for browsing and short for typing URL's. I think the CPAN/authors/
    Tim> tree would become the main route to an authors work.

I'm not sure, if I got you right, do you agree with

     CPAN/authors/Alligator_Descartes  ->  CPAN/m______/by-author/ADESC/

or do you want ADESC and Alligator_Descartes in the same directory. I
would not like the latter because these directory listings are already
rather long. But if you say, my proposal is ok, then I implement it
immediately.


    Tim> It might be handy to have both userid and username forms, e.g.,
    Tim> CPAN/authors/TIMB/ and CPAN/authors/Tim_Bunce/
    >> 
    >> Easy to implement. But right now I need a break. I can't hear the word
    >> m_____ anymore :)
    >> 

So y'all know, how sensible Tim is. Thanks, Tim, my allergia has
diminished. Ready for the next round.

andreas

From k@anna.mind.de Thu Oct  5 08:55:36 1995
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Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 09:55:36 +0100
Message-Id: <199510050855.JAA25853@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: jared@organic.com
Cc: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <199510041649.JAA14195@shiva.organic.com> (message from Jared
	Rhine on Wed, 4 Oct 1995 09:49:46 -0700)
Subject: Re: CPAN module section structure
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "JR" == Jared Rhine <jared@organic.com> writes:

    JR> [Citation date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:00:13 +0100]
    JR> TB == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>

    JR> The division of by-category is difficult to do, as I'm loath to just
    JR> say 'PML-section-1', and it is very hard to come up with names that
    JR> accurately describe everything contained in a given PML section.

    TB> You're *very* welcome to try to come up with a set of categories
    TB> (between, say, 10 and 30) and list each module only once.

    JR> I would argue that one of the primary advantages of electronic environments
    JR> is that resources don't have to exist in only a single category.  Single
    JR> categories work well for physical resources (like books) and for
    JR> comprehensive lists.  Note the fact that the best thing we've gotten out of
    JR> the PML for the CPAN is the by-author listing, which is an appropriate
    JR> single categorization.  For real resource discovery, a single by-category
    JR> fails, since as you've suggested, modules can rightly belong in more than
    JR> one category.

My by-module and by-category trees have not yet found their way into CPAN. Jarkko?

But let me show you how they look like:

koenig@franz:~ftp/pub/modules% find . -ls | awk '{print $11,$12,$13}' | grep libwww-perl-5b5
./by-author/GAAS/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz  
./by-module/HTML/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz -> ../../by-author/GAAS/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz
./by-module/HTTP/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz -> ../../by-author/GAAS/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz
./by-module/LWP/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz -> ../../by-author/GAAS/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz
./by-module/MIME/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz -> ../../by-author/GAAS/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz
./by-module/URI/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz -> ../../by-author/GAAS/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz
./by-module/WWW/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz -> ../../by-author/GAAS/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz
./by-category/15_World_Wide_Web/HTML/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz -> ../../../by-author/GAAS/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz
./by-category/15_World_Wide_Web/HTTP/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz -> ../../../by-author/GAAS/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz
./by-category/15_World_Wide_Web/LWP/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz -> ../../../by-author/GAAS/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz
./by-category/15_World_Wide_Web/MIME/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz -> ../../../by-author/GAAS/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz
./by-category/15_World_Wide_Web/URI/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz -> ../../../by-author/GAAS/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz
./by-category/15_World_Wide_Web/WWW/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz -> ../../../by-author/GAAS/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz

As said, currently only available at
<URL:ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/pub/modules>.

    JR> When faced with problems like this, my usual approach is to employ a
    JR> keyword-based approach (which has already been brought up).  You describe
    JR> each resource by a set of keywords (databases, www, etc) chosen from a
    JR> controlled vocabulary (that is to say, you don't use any keyword that comes
    JR> to mind, you must choose from a list).  To create the index, you create a
    JR> directory structure with an item for each keyword.  Every item described by
    JR> that keyword can be found in that directory, but that's not to say it's not
    JR> also found in other directories, corresponding to other keywords.  Symlinks
    JR> provide a convenient mechanism for placing resources in multiple
    JR> directories.

Keywords together with the right software are certainly much more
powerful. I'm curious what Tom will come up with. In the symlink tree
I will try to limit myself to the module names associated with a
package. With the first level of module names to be precise. To use
your words: I limit the vocabulary for libwww-perl to the words
15_World_Wide_Web, LWP, MIME, URI, WWW, HTML. Here we see how valuable
Tim's efforts are to chose the right hierarchie for module names.

    JR> My proposal, then:

    JR>   + Continue to use PML as it currently stands.  It should continue to be
    JR>     the canonical listing of modules and the source for author
    JR>     identification.

    JR>   + Create a bibliographic entry for each module on the PML.  Each
    JR>     bibliographic entry should include a list of keywords, chosen from a
    JR>     well-known list of keywords (usually called a vocabulary).

    JR>   + Create scripts which take the bibliographic entries and automatically
    JR>     create a 'by-keyword' tree by symlinking an entry from each directory to
    JR>     the by-author tree.

Aren't we close?

    JR>   + Create a search engine which uses the bibliographic entries to allow one
    JR>     to form queries like "What modules are described by both the 'database'
    JR>     and 'www' keywords?"

I have high respect for the harvest broker, and I haven't yet studied
it in depth. Nonetheless I had lots of useless answers when I tried to
query it. Once again the location:
<URL:http://http://town.hall.org/Harvest/brokers/lsm/>.  I'd be really
happy if we could have something as powerful for CPAN.

How far is the development on <URL:http://www.leo.org/archiv/archiv_e.html>?

I just tried "perl and (www or database)" and got 

    slideshow-1.5.tar.gz
    and
    quark-to-html-pl.sit

Not really great, but apparently not completely useless.


    JR> A more sophisticated approach uses multiple vocabularies (say one to
    JR> describe the operating system, one to describe the exact database backend,
    JR> another to describe the particular aspect of www work), but I think that's
    JR> probably overkill for the size of the resource set we're talking about.

    TB> One day, when the module list is fully database driven we could allow
    TB> modules to have multiple secondary categories and setup CPAN symlinks
    TB> to suit.

    JR> Ah, yes.  I see you agree.  Good argument for reading the whole message one
    JR> is responding to before responding.  I can't bring myself to just delete
    JR> this message, though, so at least this message will be in the archives for
    JR> later reference :)

And now that I cite you in full length...

    JR> A big round of applause for everyone actually doing work to make the CPAN
    JR> happen.  Thanks.

 ...I cannot shorten this line either :)

    JR> -- 
    JR> jared@organic.com / Organic Online / <URL:http://www.hmc.edu/~jared/home>

    JR> "To go outside the mythos is to become insane...." -- Robert Pirsig

andreas

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Thu Oct  5 09:37:40 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: jared@organic.com, Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN module section structure
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> My by-module and by-category trees have not yet found their
> way into CPAN. Jarkko?

Depends on your CPAN, I guess :-) They are there at least in the master.

++jhi;

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Thu Oct  5 12:13:21 1995
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To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: CPAN deletes, etc.
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:13:21 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id: <9510051325.ab22956@relay-3.mail.demon.net>


> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
>     Tim> It might be handy to have both userid and username forms, e.g.,
>     Tim> CPAN/authors/TIMB/ and CPAN/authors/Tim_Bunce/
>     >> 
>     >> Easy to implement. But right now I need a break. I can't hear the word
>     >> m_____ anymore :)
> 
> So y'all know, how sensible Tim is. Thanks, Tim, my allergia has
> diminished. Ready for the next round.

:-)

>     Tim> Perhaps a CPAN/authors/* tree would be useful, even if it was
>     Tim> just symlinks to CPAN/m______/by-author/*. It would provide a
>     Tim> non-m____ path to anything an author wanted mirrored.
>     >> 
>     >> Maybe remap like so:
>     >> 
>     >> CPAN/authors/Alligator_Descartes  ->  CPAN/m______/by-author/ADESC/
>     >> 
>     >> If we do this, we can just sweep the fact under the carpet, that we
>     >> started out to have everything below the m______/ directory.
>     >> 
>     Tim> Yes. I'd actually suggest having _both_ the short and long forms. Long
>     Tim> for browsing and short for typing URL's. I think the CPAN/authors/
>     Tim> tree would become the main route to an authors work.
> 
> I'm not sure, if I got you right, do you agree with
> 
>      CPAN/authors/Alligator_Descartes  ->  CPAN/m______/by-author/ADESC/
> 
> or do you want ADESC and Alligator_Descartes in the same directory. I
> would not like the latter because these directory listings are already
> rather long.

Umm, yes, and that'll only get worse. Okay, maybe we could have a
CPAN/authors/id/ tree for URL's so we'd have both ...

      CPAN/authors/Alligator_Descartes  ->  CPAN/modules/by-author/ADESC/
      CPAN/authors/id/ADESC             ->  CPAN/modules/by-author/ADESC/

> But if you say, my proposal is ok, then I implement it immediately.

Great.

In the long run I see the Module Server ending up as a 'Perl Authors Server'
so perhaps the modules/by-author/ tree would actually end up moving to
become the authors/id/ tree and the modules/by-author tree being symlinks.
 
Tim.

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Thu Oct  5 12:24:49 1995
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          Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:24:49 +0100
To: jared@organic.com, andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: CPAN module section structure
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:24:49 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
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> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
> >>>>> "JR" == Jared Rhine <jared@organic.com> writes:
> 
>     JR> [Citation date: Tue, 3 Oct 1995 03:00:13 +0100]
>     JR> TB == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
> 
>     JR> The division of by-category is difficult to do, as I'm loath to just
>     JR> say 'PML-section-1', and it is very hard to come up with names that
>     JR> accurately describe everything contained in a given PML section.
> 
>     TB> You're *very* welcome to try to come up with a set of categories
>     TB> (between, say, 10 and 30) and list each module only once.
> 
>     JR> I would argue that one of the primary advantages of electronic environments
>     JR> is that resources don't have to exist in only a single category.  Single
>     JR> categories work well for physical resources (like books) and for
>     JR> comprehensive lists.  Note the fact that the best thing we've gotten out of
>     JR> the PML for the CPAN is the by-author listing, which is an appropriate
>     JR> single categorization.  For real resource discovery, a single by-category
>     JR> fails, since as you've suggested, modules can rightly belong in more than
>     JR> one category.
> 
The Module List in ASCII text form can only realistically list each module once.

But some form of automatically maintained CPAN/by-keyword/ tree would be great.


> My by-module and by-category trees have not yet found their way into CPAN. Jarkko?
> 
> But let me show you how they look like:

> ./by-module/URI/libwww-perl-5b5.tar.gz -> ...

Why isn't this .../URI/URL/... ?


>     JR> A big round of applause for everyone actually doing work to make the CPAN
>     JR> happen.  Thanks.
> 
>  ...I cannot shorten this line either :)
> 
Ditto.

Tim.

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Fri Oct  6 11:57:35 1995
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          Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:57:35 +0100
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN perl-5.001m.tar.gz needed
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 12:57:35 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
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> From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
> 
>  > I don't think CPAN would be *C*PAN without mirroring ftp.netlabs.com!
> 
> Mirroring *whole* hosts into CPAN is not the goal and seldom a good idea,
> even if the host be ftp.netlabs.com. The main reason not to is that I
> personally see the role of CPAN as presenting a logical(ish) whole,
> not just a collection of mirrors from hosts x, y, and z.
> 
>  > You'll find a "pristine, 105% working, tried and tested" perl5.001.tar.gz there.
> 
> That doth not a perl5.001m.tar.gz make.
> 
Sorry, I meant that CPAN should mirror ftp.netlabs.com/pub/outgoing/perl5.0/
which contains perl5.001m.tar.gz.

Not mirroring ftp.netlabs.com/pub/outgoing/perl5.0/ in CPAN would be daft.

Tim.

From gmarzot@BayNetworks.com Fri Oct  6 17:43:33 1995
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Date: Fri, 6 Oct 95 13:43:33 EDT
From: gmarzot@BayNetworks.com (Joe Marzot)
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Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.announce,comp.lang.perl.misc,comp.protocols.snmp
Cc: info-snmp@uunet.uu.net, snmp@psi.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        snmptcl-users@cisco.com
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Perl5 Interface to CMU-SNMP2.1.2
Reply-To: gmarzot@BayNetworks.com
Distribution: world

Here is the README from the package.
-GSM

------------------------

		   Perl5 CMU-SNMPv2 Extension Module
		  G.S.Marzot(gmarzot@baynetworks.com)
				9/25/95

Introduction:

This is a Perl5 extension module which provides an interface to the
CMU-SNMPv2 library. It was developed on a linux box and tested on a
sun4_4.1 system using CMU-SMNMPv2.1.2. There have been reports of
success on irix and solaris systems as well. (Let me know of problems
and/or successes on other boxes please)

the most recent version of the module can be retrieved from
ftp:/ftp.wellfleet.com/netman/snmp/perl5/SNMP-1.5b.tar.gz
(as well as the usual perl archives)

cmu source may be found in a variety of locations, try
ftp://ftp.ece.ucdavis.edu/pub/snmp (sun, hp port etc.)
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/system/Network/admin (linux)


Description:

The basic operations offered by SNMP are provided through an object
oriented interface for modularity and ease of use. The primary object is
SNMP::Session which is implemented as a blessed hash reference. The
object supports 'get', 'set', and 'getNext' method calls. All calls are
blocking/synchronous (i.e., they must recieve a response or timeout
before control is returned to the caller)(asynchronous interface coming
soon). The methods take a variety of input argument formats(see
test/snmptest.pl for examples). A description of the objects data fields
follow.

SNMP::Session
 DestHost - required on creation, either hostname or ip addr of SNMP agent
 Community - default 'public', SNMP community string
 Version - default '1', v1 support only for now
 Timeout - default '1000000', micro-seconds before retry
 Retries - default '5', retries before failure
 RetryNoSuch - default '1', for get request NOSUCH errors, the pdu will
               be repaired, removing the varbind in error, and resent -
               undef will be returned for all NOSUCH varbinds, setting
               to '0' disables this feature and the entire get request
               will fail on any NOSUCH error
 ErrorStr - read-only, returns a test description of any error occuring
            in the last request
 ErrorNum - read-only, returns the snmp_err or staus of last request
private
 DestAddr - internal field used to hold the translated DestHost field

In addition a number of package variables and methods are provided

$SNMP::release - the current version specifier (e.g., 1.5b)

$SNMP::auto_init_mib - default '1', enables the immediate loading of the
                       ASN mib when the package is loaded - if set to '0'
                       mib loading must be done explicitly (see SNMP::setMib)

SNMP::setMib - allows dynamic re-initialization of the mib to be used

SNMP::translateObj - will convert a text object tag to a numeric OID and
                     vice-versa. iid suffix is always retained numerically


Installation:

build/install version 2.1.2 of CMU-SNMPv2 libsnmp.a (e.g., /usr/local/lib)

make sure header files are available someplace (e.g., /usr/local/include)

in ext/SNMP 'perl Makefile.PL'

then 'make install'

the CMU tool-kit requires that an ASN mib be available. 'mib.txt' is the
default name looked for first in the local directory and then in
/etc. See CMU-SNMP docs for details on overriding the default or set mib
explicitly with SNMP::setMib.

assuming you have an SNMP agent to talk to you can customize test/snmptest.pl
and run

'cd test; perl snmptest.pl <agent-address>'

------
Many thanks to those in the Perl community and perl5-porters list who
helped.

bugs, comments, questions to gmarzot@baynetworks.com

From news@BayNetworks.com Fri Oct  6 17:43:27 1995
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Path: paperboy!gmarzot
From: gmarzot@whaler.BayNetworks.com (Joe Marzot)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.announce,comp.lang.perl.misc,comp.protocols.snmp
Subject: ANNOUNCE: Perl5 Interface to CMU-SNMP2.1.2
Date: 06 Oct 1995 17:43:27 GMT
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Cc: info-snmp@uunet.uu.net, snmp@psi.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        snmptcl-users@cisco.com


Here is the README from the package.
-GSM

------------------------

		   Perl5 CMU-SNMPv2 Extension Module
		  G.S.Marzot(gmarzot@baynetworks.com)
				9/25/95

Introduction:

This is a Perl5 extension module which provides an interface to the
CMU-SNMPv2 library. It was developed on a linux box and tested on a
sun4_4.1 system using CMU-SMNMPv2.1.2. There have been reports of
success on irix and solaris systems as well. (Let me know of problems
and/or successes on other boxes please)

the most recent version of the module can be retrieved from
ftp:/ftp.wellfleet.com/netman/snmp/perl5/SNMP-1.5b.tar.gz
(as well as the usual perl archives)

cmu source may be found in a variety of locations, try
ftp://ftp.ece.ucdavis.edu/pub/snmp (sun, hp port etc.)
ftp://sunsite.unc.edu:/pub/Linux/system/Network/admin (linux)


Description:

The basic operations offered by SNMP are provided through an object
oriented interface for modularity and ease of use. The primary object is
SNMP::Session which is implemented as a blessed hash reference. The
object supports 'get', 'set', and 'getNext' method calls. All calls are
blocking/synchronous (i.e., they must recieve a response or timeout
before control is returned to the caller)(asynchronous interface coming
soon). The methods take a variety of input argument formats(see
test/snmptest.pl for examples). A description of the objects data fields
follow.

SNMP::Session
 DestHost - required on creation, either hostname or ip addr of SNMP agent
 Community - default 'public', SNMP community string
 Version - default '1', v1 support only for now
 Timeout - default '1000000', micro-seconds before retry
 Retries - default '5', retries before failure
 RetryNoSuch - default '1', for get request NOSUCH errors, the pdu will
               be repaired, removing the varbind in error, and resent -
               undef will be returned for all NOSUCH varbinds, setting
               to '0' disables this feature and the entire get request
               will fail on any NOSUCH error
 ErrorStr - read-only, returns a test description of any error occuring
            in the last request
 ErrorNum - read-only, returns the snmp_err or staus of last request
private
 DestAddr - internal field used to hold the translated DestHost field

In addition a number of package variables and methods are provided

$SNMP::release - the current version specifier (e.g., 1.5b)

$SNMP::auto_init_mib - default '1', enables the immediate loading of the
                       ASN mib when the package is loaded - if set to '0'
                       mib loading must be done explicitly (see SNMP::setMib)

SNMP::setMib - allows dynamic re-initialization of the mib to be used

SNMP::translateObj - will convert a text object tag to a numeric OID and
                     vice-versa. iid suffix is always retained numerically


Installation:

build/install version 2.1.2 of CMU-SNMPv2 libsnmp.a (e.g., /usr/local/lib)

make sure header files are available someplace (e.g., /usr/local/include)

in ext/SNMP 'perl Makefile.PL'

then 'make install'

the CMU tool-kit requires that an ASN mib be available. 'mib.txt' is the
default name looked for first in the local directory and then in
/etc. See CMU-SNMP docs for details on overriding the default or set mib
explicitly with SNMP::setMib.

assuming you have an SNMP agent to talk to you can customize test/snmptest.pl
and run

'cd test; perl snmptest.pl <agent-address>'

------
Many thanks to those in the Perl community and perl5-porters list who
helped.

bugs, comments, questions to gmarzot@baynetworks.com
--

                                                                -GSM
-----
 Giovanni S. Marzot
 <gmarzot@wellfleet.com>
 Wellfleet Communications
 Network Management Development

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Fri Oct  6 18:00:17 1995
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To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Subject: Re: by-module, by-category
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Content-Type: X-sun-attachment
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:00:17 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
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----------
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X-Sun-Data-Description: text
X-Sun-Data-Name: text
X-Sun-Content-Lines: 46


> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
> Tim, the current trees do not yet reflect the blueprint modulelist you
> sent me today, but in general the 99 directory might be an interesting
> place for you. It shows you all the packages that haven't yet found a
> place in the modulelist. (which doesn't imply, that they need one)
> 
I've attached another modulelist update. This one will be posted Tuesday.

> my $chaptitle = {qw[
> 02 02_Core_Modules

These titles will vary from time to time.

> JACKS/Socket\.                99 Socket

That's in the list but without an owner. Has been for ages.
Perhaps the logic needs reviewing for this situation (people
supplying variants of the same module).

I don't know enough about these to add them:

> NWINT/SHA-                    99 SHA
> GSAR/Dumper-                  99 Dumper
> KJALB/SetDualVar-             99 SetDualVar

These are not modules:

> ILYAZ/etext/etext\d           99 etext
> ILYAZ/perl5db-kit-            99 perl5db
> PMQS/xsubpp-                  99 xsubpp
> ILYAZ/cperl-mode/cperl-mode\.el\.        99 emacs

It would be handy if you could distinguish modules which aren't
in the module list yet from things that aren't modules at all.

Nagging authors of the former to send me an entry would also be handy!

> Finally, it's done. Looking forward to feedback. Feedback
> as enthusiastic approval or as code donation preferred :).
> 
You have my enthusiastic approval!

Tim.

----------
X-Sun-Data-Type: default
X-Sun-Data-Description: default
X-Sun-Data-Name: ml
X-Sun-Content-Lines: 1467


The Perl 5 Module List                        Maintained by Tim Bunce
----------------------                        <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
                                              $Revision: 2.13 $
Contents                                      $Date: 1995/08/22 06:34:40 $

     Introduction
   ! Where Are The Modules Kept?
     Playing Your Part
     How To Get a More Recent Copy of the List
     Editorial Information and Copyright

Part 1 - Modules: Creation, Use and Abuse

1)   Perl 5 Module Terminology
2)   Guidelines for Module Creation
3)   Guidelines for Converting Perl 4 Library Scripts into Modules
4)   Guidelines for Reusing Application Code

Part 2 - The Perl 5 Module List

1)   Module Listing Format
2) ! Perl Core Modules, Perl Language Extensions and Documentation Tools 
3) ! Development Support
4) ! Operating System Interfaces
5) ! Networking, Device Control (modems) and InterProcess Communication
6) ! Data Types and Data Type Utilities
7) ! Database Interfaces
8) ! User Interfaces
9)   Interfaces to / Emulations of Other Programming Languages
10)! File Names, File Systems, File Locking and File Handles
11)! Text Processing, Parsing and Searching
12)  Option, Argument, Parameter and Configuration File Processing
13)  Internationalization and Locale
14)  Security and Encryption
15)! World Wide Web, HTML, HTTP, CGI, MIME
16)  Server and Daemon Utilities
17)! Archiving and Compression
18)! Images, Pixmap and Bitmap Manipulation, Drawing and Graphing
19)! Mail and Usenet News
20)+ Control Flow Utilities (callbacks and exceptions etc)
21)+ File Handle and Input/Output Stream Utilities
22)! Miscellaneous Modules

Part 3 - Big Projects Registry

1)   Introduction
2)   Items in the Todo File
3)   Perl Compiler
4)   Multi-threading
5) ! Object Management Group CORBA & IDL
6)   Expand Tied Array Interface
7)   Tied File Handles
8) + Extend Yacc To Write XS Code
9) + Updatable Module List via WWW Forms

Part 4 - Who's Who and What's Where

1)   Information / Contact Reference Details
2)   Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) Files 
3) ! Comprehensive Perl Archive Network Sites
4) ! Other Perl Archive Sites


Key: '+' indicates a new section or item,
     '!' indicates a changed section or item (typically new modules).


=======================================================================

Introduction

This document is a semi-formal list of Perl 5 Modules. The Perl 4
concept of packages has been extended in Perl 5 and a new standardised
form of reusable software component has been defined: the Module.

Perl 5 Modules typically conform to certain guidelines which make them
easier to use, reuse, integrate and extend.

This list will be posted to comp.lang.perl.announce and comp.answers on 
a semi-regular basis.  It has two key aims:

 1. FOR DEVELOPERS: To change duplication of effort into cooperation.

 2. FOR USERS: To quickly locate existing software which can be reused.

This list includes the Perl 5 standard modules, other completed modules,
work-in-progress modules and would-be-nice-to-have ideas for modules.
It also includes guidelines for those wishing to create new modules
including how to name them.


Where Are The Modules Kept?

A Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN) of mirrored FTP sites is
being developed. Within the CPAN scheme the modules described in this
list can be found in a modules/ directory below the CPAN root
directory.

  Try one of these places first:
      ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN/
      ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/CPAN/
      ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/CPAN/
      ftp://ftp.delphi.com/pub/mirrors/packages/perl/CPAN/
      ftp://janus.sedl.org/pub/mirrors/CPAN/
      ftp://ftp.is.co.za/programming/perl/CPAN/
      ftp://ftp.sterling.com/programming/languages/perl/
      ftp://orpheu.ci.uminho.pt/pub/lang/perl/
      ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/perl/CPAN/

All the files under each of the directories listed above should be
identical at all these sites since they are all automatically
maintained mirrors of the master CPAN site. Please use which ever
site is 'nearest' you.

If you can't find what you want, or wish to check that what you've
found is the latest version, you can contact the person associated with
the module.  Contact details are given at the start of Part 4.  I don't
record per-module archive addresses because it would take more time and
effort than I can spare (this list would also be much bigger).

You should find a webified version of this modulelist a few days after
it is posted in the file 00modlist.html on the CPAN servers in the
byauthor/ directory (maybe in the pml/ directory).


Playing Your Part

Perl is a huge collaborative effort. Everyone who uses perl is
benefiting from the contributions of many hundreds, maybe thousands, of
people. How much time has perl saved you since you started using it?

Do you have any modules you could share with others?  For example, you
may have some perl4 scripts from which generally useful, and reusable,
modules could be extracted.  There may be many people who would find
your work very useful.  Please play you part and contribute to the Perl
community where you can. [ end of sermon :-]

Help save the world! Please submit new entries and updates to me so I
can keep this list up-to-date. I would prefer changes to be submitted
as context diff's (or just plain diff if your diff does not have a
context diff option) by email to Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk. No tabs please.
Don't forget to upload your module to an archive site. See section 2.9.


How To Get a More Recent Copy of the List

This Module List is posted to comp.lang.perl.announce, comp.answers and
news.answers bi-weekly with a long expiry time (over a month). The
first place to look for a more recent copy is therefore your own Usenet
spool area.

You should be able to get a copy from one of these places:
  ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/perl-faq/module-list
  ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/perl/db/mod/module-list.txt
  ftp://ftp.wpi.edu/perl5/Modules/module_list.txt
(The rtfm.mit.edu site is automatically updated, try that first.)


Editorial Information and Copyright

This document is Copyright (c) 1995 by Tim Bunce. All rights reserved.
Permission to distribute this document, in full or part, via electronic
means (emailed, posted or archived) or printed copy is granted
providing that no charges are involved, reasonable attempt is made to
use the most current version, and all credits and copyright notices are
retained.  Requests for other distribution rights, including
incorporation in commercial products, such as books, magazine articles,
or CD-ROMs should be made to Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk.

Disclaimer: The content of this document is simply a collection of
information gathered from many sources with little or no checking.
There are NO warranties with regard to this information or its use.



=======================================================================


        Part 1 - Modules: Creation, Use and Abuse
        =========================================


1) Perl 5 Module Terminology (a larry-terminology-mini-tutorial)
   -------------------------

Perl 5 implements a class using a package, but the presence of a
package doesn't imply the presence of a class.  A package is just a
namespace.  A class is a package that provides subroutines that can be
used as methods.  A method is just a subroutine that expects, as its
first argument, either the name of a package (for "static" methods),
or a reference to something (for "virtual" methods).

A module is a file that (by convention) provides a class of the same
name (sans the .pm), plus an import method in that class that can be
called to fetch exported symbols.  This module may implement some of
its methods by loading dynamic C or C++ objects, but that should be
totally transparent to the user of the module.  Likewise, the module
might set up an AUTOLOAD function to slurp in subroutine definitions on
demand, but this is also transparent.  Only the .pm file is required to
exist.


2) Guidelines for Module Creation
   ------------------------------

2.1 Do similar modules already exist in some form?

   If so, please try to reuse the existing modules either in whole or
   by inheriting useful features into a new class.  If this is not
   practical try to get together with the module authors to work on
   extending or enhancing the functionality of the existing modules.
   A perfect example is the plethora of packages in perl4 for dealing
   with command line options.

   If you are writing a module to expand an already existing set of
   modules, please coordinate with the author of the package.  It
   helps if you follow the same naming scheme and module interaction
   scheme as the original author.


2.2 Try to design the new module to be easy to extend and reuse.

   Use blessed references.  Use the two argument form of bless to bless
   into the class name given as the first parameter of the constructor,
   e.g.,   sub new { my($class) = @_; return bless {}, $class; }

   Pass arrays as references so more parameters can be added later
   (it's also faster).  Convert functions into methods where
   appropriate.  Split large methods into smaller more flexible ones.
   Inherit methods from other modules if appropriate.

   Avoid class name tests like: die "Invalid" unless ref $ref eq 'FOO'.
   Generally you can delete the "eq 'FOO'" part with no harm at all.
   Let the objects look after themselves! Generally, avoid hardwired
   class names as far as possible.

   Avoid $r->Class::func() where using @ISA=qw(... Class ...) and
   $r->func() would work (see perlbot man page for more details).

   Use autosplit so little used or newly added functions won't be a
   burden to programs which don't use them. Add test functions to
   the module after __END__ either using AutoSplit or by saying:
     eval join('',<main::DATA>) || die $@ unless caller();

   Does your module pass the 'empty sub-class' test? If you say
   "@SUBCLASS::ISA = qw(YOURCLASS);" your applications should be able
   to use SUBCLASS in exactly the same way as YOURCLASS.  For example,
   does your application still work if you change:  $obj = new YOURCLASS;
   into: $obj = new SUBCLASS; ?

   Avoid keeping any state information in your packages. It makes it
   difficult for multiple other packages to use yours. Keep state
   information in objects.

   Always use -w. Try to "use strict;" (or "use strict qw(...);").
   Remember that you can add "no strict qw(...);" to individual blocks
   of code which need less strictness. Always use -w. Always use -w!
   Follow the guidelines in the perlstyle(1) manual.


2.3 Select what to export.

   Do NOT export method names!
   Do NOT export anything else by default without a good reason!

   Exports pollute the namespace of the module user.  If you must
   export try to use @EXPORT_OK in preference to @EXPORT and avoid
   short or common names to reduce the risk of name clashes.

   Generally anything not exported is still accessible from outside the
   module using the ModuleName::item_name (or $blessed_ref->method)
   syntax.  By convention you can use a leading underscore on names to
   informally indicate that they are 'internal' and not for public use.

   (It is actually possible to get private functions by saying:
   my $subref = sub { ... };  &$subref; But there's no way to call that
   directly as a method, since a method must have a name in the symbol
   table.)

   As a general rule, if the module is trying to be object oriented
   then export nothing. If it's just a collection of functions then
   @EXPORT_OK anything but use @EXPORT with caution.


2.4 Select a name for the module.

   This name should be as descriptive, accurate and complete as
   possible.  Avoid any risk of ambiguity. Always try to use two or
   more whole words.  Generally the name should reflect what the module
   does rather than how it does it.  Please use nested module names to
   informally group or categorise a module.

   Having 57 modules all called Sort will not make life easy for anyone
   (though having 23 called Sort::Quick is only marginally better :-).
   Imagine someone trying to install your module alongside many others.
   If in any doubt ask for suggestions in comp.lang.perl.misc.

   If you are developing a suite of related modules/classes it's good
   practice to use nested classes with a common prefix as this will
   avoid namespace clashes. For example:  Xyz::Control, Xyz::View,
   Xyz::Model etc. Use the modules in this list as a naming guide.

   If adding a new module to a set, follow the original author's
   standards for naming modules and the interface to methods in
   those modules.

   To be portable each component of a module name should be limited to
   11 characters. If it might be used on DOS then try to ensure each is
   unique in the first 8 characters. Nested modules make this easier.


2.5 Have you got it right?

   How do you know that you've made the right decisions? Have you
   picked an interface design that will cause problems later? Have
   you picked the most appropriate name? Do you have any questions?

   The best way to know for sure, and pick up many helpful suggestions,
   is to ask someone who knows. Comp.lang.perl.misc is read by just about
   all the people who develop modules and it's the best place to ask.

   All you need to do is post a short summary of the module, its
   purpose and interfaces. A few lines on each of the main methods is
   probably enough. (If you post the whole module it might be ignored
   by busy people - generally the very people you want to read it!)

   Don't worry about posting if you can't say when the module will be
   ready - just say so in the message. It might be worth inviting
   others to help you, they may be able to complete it for you!


2.6 README and other Additional Files.

   It's well known that software developers usually fully document the
   software they write. If, however, the world is in urgent need of
   your software and there is not enough time to write the full
   documentation please at least provide a README file containing:

   - A description of the module/package/extension etc.
   - A copyright notice - see below.
   - Prerequisites - what else you may need to have.
   - How to build it - possible changes to Makefile.PL etc.
   - How to install it.
   - Recent changes in this release, especially incompatibilities
   - Changes / enhancements you plan to make in the future.

   If the README file seems to be getting too large you may wish to
   split out some of the sections into separate files: INSTALL,
   Copying, ToDo etc.


2.7 Adding a Copyright Notice.

   How you choose to licence your work is a personal decision.
   The general mechanism is to assert your Copyright and then make
   a declaration of how others may copy/use/modify your work.

   Perl, for example, is supplied with two types of licence: The GNU
   GPL and The Artistic License (see the files README, Copying and
   Artistic).  Larry has good reasons for NOT just using the GNU GPL.

   My personal recommendation, out of respect for Larry, Perl and the
   perl community at large is to simply state something like:

     Copyright (c) 1995 Your Name. All rights reserved.
     This program is free software; you can redistribute it and/or
     modify it under the same terms as Perl itself.

   This statement should at least appear in the README file. You may
   also wish to include it in a Copying file and your source files.


2.8 Give the module a version/issue/release number.

   Add a function or method to retrieve the number. Use the number in
   announcements and archive file names when releasing the module
   (ModuleName-1.02.tar.Z). See ExtUtils::MakeMaker.pm for details.
   It's a good idea to use two digits after the decimal point.


2.9 How to release and distribute a module.

   It's good idea to post an announcement of the availability of your
   module (or the module itself if small) to the comp.lang.perl.announce
   Usenet newsgroup.  This will at least ensure very wide once-off
   distribution.

   If possible you should place the module into a major ftp archive and
   include details of it's location in your announcement.

   Some notes about ftp archives: Please use a long descriptive file
   name which includes the version number. Most incoming directories
   will not be readable/listable, i.e., you won't be able to see your
   file after uploading it. Remember to send your email notification
   message as soon as possible after uploading else your file may get
   deleted automatically. Allow time for the file to be processed
   and/or check the file has been processed before announcing its
   location.

   Some FTP Archives for Perl Modules:

   Upload to: ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/incoming
   Notify:    Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>

   Upload to: ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/incoming ?
   Notify:    spp@psa.pencom.com (Stephen P Potter)

   Please remember to send me an updated entry for the Module list!


2.10 Take care when changing a released module.

   Always strive to remain compatible with previous released versions
   (see 2.2 above) Otherwise try to add a mechanism to revert to the
   old behaviour if people rely on it. Document incompatible changes.



3) Guidelines for Converting Perl 4 Library Scripts into Modules
   -------------------------------------------------------------

3.1 There is no requirement to convert anything.

   If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Perl 4 library scripts should
   continue to work with no problems. You may need to make some minor
   changes (like escaping non-array @'s in double quoted strings) but
   there is no need to convert a .pl file into a Module for just that.


3.2 Consider the implications.

   All the perl applications which make use of the script will need to
   be changed (slightly) if the script is converted into a module.  Is
   it worth it unless you plan to make other changes at the same time?


3.3 Make the most of the opportunity.

   If you are going to convert the script to a module you can use the
   opportunity to redesign the interface. The 'Guidelines for Module
   Creation' above include many of the issues you should consider.


3.4 The pl2pm utility will get you started.

   This utility will read *.pl files (given as parameters) and write
   corresponding *.pm files. The pl2pm utilities does the following:
   - Adds the standard Module prologue lines
   - Converts package specifiers from ' to ::
   - Converts die(...) to croak(...)
   - Several other minor changes
   Being a mechanical process pl2pm is not bullet proof. The converted
   code will need careful checking, especially any package statements.
   Don't delete the original .pl file till the new .pm one works!



4) Guidelines for Reusing Application Code
   ---------------------------------------

4.1 Complete applications rarely belong in the Perl Module Library.

4.2 Many applications contain some perl code which could be reused.
    Help save the world! Share your code in a form that makes it easy
    to reuse.

4.3 Break-out the reusable code into one or more separate module files.

4.4 Take the opportunity to reconsider and redesign the interfaces.

4.5 In some cases the 'application' can then be reduced to a small
    fragment of code built on top of the reusable modules. In these cases
    the application could invoked as:
         perl -e 'use Module::Name; method(@ARGV)' ...
    or   perl -mModule::Name ...    (in perl5.002?)



=======================================================================


              Part 2 - The Perl 5 Module List
              ===============================


The remainder of this document is divided up into sections. Each
section deals with a particular topic and lists all known modules
related to that topic.  Modules are only listed in one section so
check all sections that might related to your particular needs.

All the information corresponds to the latest updates I have received.
I don't record the version number or release dates of the listed
Modules. Nor do I record the locations of these Modules. Consult the
contact, try the usual perl archive sites or ask in comp.lang.perl.misc.
Please do *not* ask me directly, I simply don't have the time. Sorry.


1) Module Listing Format

Each Module listing is very short. The main goal is to simply publish
the existence of the modules, or ideas for modules, and enough contact
information for you to find out more. Each listing includes some
characters which convey (approximate) basic status information.

For example:

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-------------  ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Fcntl          Sdcf  Defines fcntl() constants (see File::Lock)   JHI

Where the 'DSLI' characters have the following meanings:

  D - Development Stage  (Note: *NO IMPLIED TIMESCALES*!):
    i   - Idea, listed to gain consensus or as a placeholder
    c   - under construction but pre-alpha (not yet released)
    a/b - Alpha/Beta testing
    R   - Released
    M   - Mature (no rigorous definition)
    S   - Standard, supplied with Perl 5

  S - Support Level:
    m   - Mailing-list
    d   - Developer
    u   - Usenet newsgroup comp.lang.perl.misc
    n   - None known, try comp.lang.perl.misc

  L - Language Used:
    p   - Perl-only, no compiler needed, should be platform independent
    c   - C and perl, a C compiler will be needed
    +   - C++ and perl, a C++ compiler will be needed
    o   - perl and another language other than C or C++ 

  I - Interface Style
    f   - plain Functions, no references used
    r   - some use of unblessed References or ties
    O   - Object oriented using blessed references and/or inheritance

Where letters are missing they can usually be inferred from the
others.  For example 'i' implies 'id', 'S' implies 'Su'.

The Info column gives a contact reference 'tag'. Lookup this tag in the
"Information / Contact Reference Details" section in Pert 3 of this
document.  If no contact is given always try asking in comp.lang.perl.misc.

Most Modules are nested in categories such as IPC::Open2 and IPC::Open3.
These are shown as 'IPC::' on one line then each module listed below
with a '::' prefix.


Ideas For Adoption

Modules listed as in the 'i' Development Stage with no contact
reference are ideas without an owner. Feel free to 'adopt' these but
please let me know so that I can update the list and thus inform anyone
else who might be interested. Adoption simply means that you either
hope to implement the module one day or would like to cooperate with
anyone else who might be interested in implementing it.


Cooperation

Similarly, if an idea that interests you has been adopted by someone
please contact them so you can share ideas.  Just because an idea has
been adopted does NOT imply that it's going to be implemented. Just
because a module is listed and being implemented does NOT mean it'll
get finised. Waiting silently in the hope that the Module will appear
one day is unlikely to be fruitful! Offer to help. Cooperate. Pool your
efforts. Go on, try it!

The same applies to modules in all states. Most modules are developed
in limited spare time. If you're interested in a module don't just wait
for it to happen, offer to help.

Module developers should feel free to announce incomplete work early.
If you're not going to be able to spend much time on something then say
so. If you invite cooperation maybe someone will implement it for you!


_______________________________________________________________________

2) Perl Core Modules, Perl Language Extensions and Documentation Tools

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
CORE           Suc   Internal base class for native functions
UNIVERSAL      Suc   Internal universal base-class
DynaLoader     Suc   Dynamic loader for shared libraries
AutoLoader     Sup   Automatic function loader (using AutoSplit)
SelfLoader     adp   Automatic function loader (using __DATA__)   JACKS
Exporter       Sup   Implements default import method for modules
Carp           Sup   Throw exceptions outside current package
Config         Sup   Stores details of perl build configuration
English        Sup   Defines English names for special variables
strict         Sup   Controls averments (similar to pragmas)
integer        Sup   Controls float vs. integer arithmetic
less           Sup   Controls optimisations: 'use less memory;'
subs           Sup   use subs qw(x y); is short for sub x; sub y;
lib            Rupf  Simple way to add/delete directories in @INC       +
sigtrap        Sup   For trapping an abort and giving a traceback
diagnostics    Rdpf  For reporting perl diagnostics in full form  TOMC  +

Perl Language Extensions

Safe           adcO  Restrict eval'd code to safe subset of ops   MICB
Plthread       i     Multithreading at Perl level (not O/S level) MICB

Source Code Filters (requires Perl5.001m or later):

Filter::
::cpp          adcf  Filters script through C preprocessor        PMQS
::exec         adcf  Filters script through an external command   PMQS
::tee          adcf  Copies to file perl source being compiled    PMQS
::call         adcf  Filters script through perl function         PMQS
::decrypt      adcf  Template for a perl source decryption filter PMQS

Documentation Tools:

Pod::
::Parse        adp   Common pod parsing code                      KJALB

_______________________________________________________________________

3) Development Support

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
AutoSplit      Supf  Splits modules into files for AutoLoader
Benchmark      Supf  Easy way to time fragments of perl code
AddINC         adpf  Easy way to manipulate @INC via use          GBARR
DoWhatIWant    i     Does what you want without even asking

ExtUtils::
::MakeMaker    SupO  Writes Makefiles for extensions
::DynaGlue     i     Utilities/glue code for C<->Perl interfaces
::Peek         adcf  Interface to internal sv_dump and sv_peek    ILYAZ

Test::
::Harness      Sup   Executes perl-style tests

Devel::
::DProf        bdcf  Execution profiler (excellent)               DMR
::Debug        i     Function and class debugging support
::DumpStack    Rupf  Dumping of the current function stack        JACKS
::CallerItem   RupO  'caller()' Object wrapper + useful methods   JACKS
::Usage        bupr  Type and range checking on subroutine args   JACKS
::Symdump      bdpf  Perl symbol table access and dumping         ANDK
::TraceFuncs   adpO  Trace funcs by using object destructions     MUIR  +

VCS::
::RCS          idpf  Interface layer over RCS functionality       RJRAY
::RCE          idcf  Perl layer over RCE C API                    RJRAY


_______________________________________________________________________

4) Operating System Interfaces

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
POSIX          SupO  An interface to most (all?) of POSIX.1
Fcntl          Sdcf  Defines fcntl() constants (see File::Lock)   JHI
Ioctl          adcf  Defines ioctl() constants                    KJALB
Errno          i     Constants from <errno.h> EACCES, ENOENT etc  JHI

BSD::
::Remote       adpf  getrusage(), s/getrlimit(), s/getpriority()  JHI
::HostIdent    adpf  s/gethostname(), s/gethostid()               JHI

Sys::
::Hostname     Supf  Implements a portable hostname function
::Domain       adpf  Try to determine TCP domain name of system   GBARR +
::Syslog       Supf  Provides same functionality as BSD syslog
::AlarmCall    Rupf  Timeout on any sub. Allows nested alarms     JACKS
::Fork         Rdpf  Simple lwall-style fork wrapper              MUIR  +

SYS::
::dfent        adpf  By-name interface                            TOMC
::gmtime       adpf  By-name interface                            TOMC
::grent        adpf  By-name interface                            TOMC
::hostent      adpf  By-name interface                            TOMC
::localtime    adpf  By-name interface                            TOMC
::mntent       adpf  By-name interface                            TOMC
::netent       adpf  By-name interface                            TOMC
::protoent     adpf  By-name interface                            TOMC
::pwent        adpf  By-name interface                            TOMC
::servent      adpf  By-name interface                            TOMC
::stat         adpf  By-name interface                            TOMC
::statfs       adpf  By-name interface                            TOMC
::times        adpf  By-name interface                            TOMC

MSDOS::
::SysCalls     adcf  MSDOS interface (interrupts, port I/O)       DMO

SGI::
::SysCalls     cdcf  SGI-specific system calls                    AMOSS
::GL           adcr  SGI's Iris GL library                        AMOSS
::FM           adcr  SGI's Font Management library                AMOSS

VMS::
::SysCalls     i     VMS-specific system calls                    CBAIL
::Filespec     Sdcf  VMS and Unix file name syntax                CBAIL

NeXTStep::
::NetInfo      idcO  NeXTStep's NetInfo (like ONC NIS)            PGUEN


_______________________________________________________________________

5) Networking, Device Control (modems) and InterProcess Communication

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Socket         Sucf  Defines all socket-related constants         JACKS !
Ptty           adcf  Pseudo terminal interface functions          NI-S  +

Net::
::Ping         Supf  Implements TCP/IP ping (currently only echo) PMQS
::IRC          i     Internet Relay Chat interface                MRG
::FTP          idpf  Implements File Transfer Protocol interface  GSPAF
::Telnet       i                                                  GBARR
::SOCKS        i     TCP/IP access through firewalls using SOCKS  WSCOT
::NIS          adcO  Interface to Sun's NIS                       RIK
::NISPlus      adcO  Interface to Sun's NIS+                      RIK
::SSL          adcf  Secure Socket Layer interface                ADESC

Net::
::Gen          adcO  Generic support for socket usage             SPIDB
::Inet         adcO  Internet (IP) socket usage                   SPIDB
::TCP          adcO  TCP-specific socket usage                    SPIDB
::UDP          cdcO  UDP-specific socket usage                    SPIDB
::FTP          adpf  Interface to File Transfer Protocol          GBARR
::SMTP         adpf  Interface to Simple Mail Transfer Protocol   GBARR
::Dnet         cdcO  DECnet-specific socket usage                 SPIDB

IPC::
::Open2        Supf
::Open3        Supf
::Chat2        ?     Out-of-service during refit!
::SysV         adcr  shared memory, semaphores, messages etc      JACKS
::Mmap         adcf  Interface to Unix's mmap() shared memory     MICB

RPC::
::ONC          i     Open Network Computing (Sun) RPC interface   PKUTS
::DCE          i     Distributed Computing Environment (OSF) RPCs

DCE::
::Registry     cdcf  DCE registry functions                       TLP

Chat2          adpf  Basic port of chat2.pl (see also IPC::Chat2) GBARR

Proxy          adpO  Transport-independent remote processing      MICB
Proxy::
::Tk           aucO  Tk transport class for Proxy (part of Tk)    MICB

ToolTalk       adcr  Interface to the ToolTalk messaging service  MARCP
SNMP           adcO  Interface to CMU's SNMPv2 libsnmp.a          GSM


_______________________________________________________________________

6) Data Types and Data Type Utilities (see also Database Interfaces)

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Math::
::BigInt       SupO  Arbitrary size integer math package          MARKB
::BigFloat     ?
::BigRat       ?
::Complex      adpO  Complex number data type                     DNAD
::IEEE         i     Interface to ANSI/IEEE Std 754-1985 funcs
::Pari         adcf  Interface to the PARI library                ILYAZ

Array::
::Vec          idp   Implement array using vec()                  LWALL
::Substr       idp   Implement array using substr()               LWALL
::Virtual      idp   Implement array using a file                 LWALL

Set::
::Scalar       adpO  Implement Set of scalars (inc references)    JHI

Date::
::GetDate      adcf  Yacc based free-format date parser in C      TOMC
::GetDate      adpf  Byacc based free-format date parser in Perl  GBARR
::CTime        adpf  Updated ctime.pl with mods for timezones     GBARR
::Time         idpO  Lightweight normalised datetime data type    TIMB
::Interval     idpO  Lightweight normalised interval data type    TIMB

Time::
::Local        Supf  Implements timelocal() and timegm()
::Time         adcf  High resolution timers and time-of-day       JHI
::CTime        Rdpf  Format Times ala ctime(3) with many formats  MUIR  +
::parseDate    Rdpf  Parses many forms of dates and times         MUIR  +
::JulianDay    Rdpf  Converts y/m/d into seconds                  MUIR  +
::Timezone     Rdpf  Figures out timezone offsets                 MUIR  +
::DaysInMonth  Rdpf  Returns the number of days in a month        MUIR  +

Tie::
::SubstrHash   RdpO  Very compact hash stored in a string         LWALL
::ShiftSplice  i     Defines shift et al in terms of splice       LWALL
::Mem          adcO  Bind perl variables to memory addresses      PMQS
::File         adpr  Tie hash to files in a directory             AMW
::IxHash       adpO  Indexed hash (array/hash composite)          GSAR
::Quick        i     Simple way to create ties                    TIMB
::Watch        i     Uses Tie::Quick to watch a variable          TIMB
TieHash        Sup   Base class for implementing tied hashes

Class::
::Behavior     adpf  General behavior methods for classes         JACKS
::Eroot        bdpO  Eternal Root - Object persistence            DMR
::Template     bdpr  Struct/member template builder               DMR

Ref            RdpO  Print, compare, and copy perl structures     MUIR  +

Statistics::
::Descriptive  RdpO  Descriptive statistical methods              JKAST

Data Type Marshaling (converting to/from strings) and Persistent Storage

FreezeThaw     bdpf  Convert arbitrary objects to/from strings    ILYAZ
Persistent     adpO  Creates persistent hashrefs or arrayrefs     JPC   +
Storable       adcr  Persistent data structure mechanism          RAM   +
Marshal::
::Dispatch     cdpO  Convert arbitrary objects to/from strings    MUIR  +
::Packed       cdpO  Run-length coded version of Marshal module   MUIR  +
::Eval         cdpO  Undo serialization with eval                 MUIR  +


_______________________________________________________________________

7) Database Interfaces (see also Data Types)

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
DBI            amcO  Generic Database Interface (see DBD modules) DBPRL
DBD::
::Oracle       amcO  Oracle Driver for DBI                        TIMB
::Ingres       cmcO  Ingres Driver for DBI                        TIMB
::mSQL         amcO  Msql Driver for DBI                          ADESC !
::DB2          cdcO  DB2 Driver for DBI                           MHM
::Sybase       idcO  Sybase Driver for DBI                        MEWP

Oraperl        ampf  Oraperl emulation interface for DBD::Oracle  TIMB
Ingperl        cmpf  Ingperl emulation interface for DBD::Ingres  TIMB

Sybase::
::DBlib        bdcO  Sybase DBlibrary interface                   MEWP
::Sybperl      bdcf  sybperl 1.0xx compatibility module           MEWP
::CTlib        cdcO  Sybase CTlibrary intgerface                  MEWP

Msql           adcf  Mini-SQL, a light weight SQL database        ANDK
Pg             bdcf  Postgress database interface                 MERGL
Pg95           adcO  Postgres95 (SQL) database interface          YVESP +

Tied Hash File Interfaces:

NDBM_File      Suc   Tie to NDBM files
DB_File        Suc   Tie to DB files                              PMQS
GDBM_File      Suc   Tie to GDBM files
SDBM_File      Suc   Tie to SDBM files
ODBM_File      Suc   Tie to ODBM files
AnyDBM_File    Sup   Uses first available *_File module above
DBZ_File       adc   Tie to dbz files (mainly for news history)   IANPX

AsciiDB        adp   Generic text database parsing                MICB
Stanza         adp   Text format database used by OSF and IBM     JHI
NetCDF         bmcr  Interface to netCDF API for scientific data  SEMM

DTREE          cdcf  Interface to Faircom DTREE multikey ISAM db  JWAT


_______________________________________________________________________

8) User Interfaces (Character and Graphical)

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Term::
::Cap          Supf  Basic termcap: Tgetent, Tputs, Tgoto
::Info         adpf  Terminfo interface (currently just Tput)     KJALB
::Complete     Supf  Tab word completion using stty raw
::ReadLine     adcf  GNU Readline, history and completion         ILYAZ
::Control      idpf  Basic curses-type screen controls (gotxy)    KJALB
::Read         cdcf  Terminal reading functions (getkey)          KJALB
::Gnuplot      adcf  Draw vector graphics on terminals etc        ILYAZ
::Query        Rdpf  Intelligent user prompt/response driver      AKSTE +

Major Character User Interface Modules:

Curses         adcO  Character screen handling and windowing      WPS
Perlmenu       Mdpf  Curses-based menu and template system        SKUNZ
PV             bmpO  PerlVision curses windowing (OO widgets etc) AGUL

Tk X Windows User Interface Modules:

Tk             bmcO  Object oriented version of Tk v4             TKML
Tkperldb       bmpf  Graphical perl debugger interface            TKML

Tk::
::FileSelector bmpO  A Fileselectorbox for choosing files         TKML

Other Major X Windows User Interface Modules:

Sx             adc   Simple Athena widget interface               FMC
Motif          cdcf  Simple Motif and Xt interface                ERICA
Wcl            i     Interface to the Widget Creation Library     TOMH
Fresco         cd+O  Interface to Fresco (post X11R6 version)     BPETH


_______________________________________________________________________

9) Interfaces to / Emulations of Other Programming Languages

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Tcl            RdcO  Complete access to Tcl                       MICB
::Tk           RdcO  Complete access to Tk *via Tcl*              MICB

Language::
::Prolog       adpO  An implementation of Prolog                  JACKS

SICStus        adcO  Interface to SICStus Prolog Runtime          CBAIL

Fortran::
::NameList     adpf  Interface to FORTRAN NameList data           SGEL


_______________________________________________________________________

10) File Names, File Systems and File Locking (see also File Handles)

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
File::
::Path         Supf  File path and name utilities
::Basename     Supf  Return basename of a filename
::CheckTree    Supf  Check file/dir tree against a specification
::Find         Supf  Call func for every item in a directory tree
::Lock         adcf  File locking using flock() and lockf()       JHI
::Glob         adpf  Filename globing (ksh style)                 TYEMQ !
::Attrib       idpO  Get/set file attributes (stat)               TYEMQ
::CounterFile  RdpO  Persistent counter class                     GAAS
::Copy         adpf  Copying files or filehandles                 ASHER +

Cwd            Supf  Current working directory functions


_______________________________________________________________________

11) Text Processing, Parsing and Searching

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Text::
::Abbrev       Supf  Builds hash of all possible abbreviations
::ParseWords   Supf  Parse strings containing shell-style quoting
::Soundex      Supf  Convert a string to a soundex value
::TeX          cdpO  TeX typesetting language input parser        ILYAZ
::Trie         adpf  Find common heads and tails from strings     ILYAZ
::Stem         adpf  Porter algorithm for stemming English words  IANPX
::Parser       adpO  Parser using patterns and states             PATM
::Tabs         Sdpf  Expand and contract tabs ala expand(1)       MUIR  +
::Wrap         Rdpf  Wraps lines to make simple paragraphs        MUIR  +
::Parity       adpf  Parity (odd/even) handling functions         WINKO +

String::
::Edit         adpf  Assorted handy text editing functions        TOMC

Search::
::Dict         Supf  Search a dictionary ordered text file

SGML::
::Element      cdpO  Build a SGML element structure tree          LSTAF
::SP           cd+O  Interface to James Clark's Sp SGML parser    BARTS
SGMLS          RdpO  A Post-Processor for SGMLS and NSGMLS        DMEGG

Font::
::AFM          RdpO  Parse Adobe Font Metric files                GAAS

Marpa          cd+O  Context Free Parser                          JKEGL
Anagram        adcf  Anangram generator                           ASHER


_______________________________________________________________________

12) Option, Argument, Parameter and Configuration File Processing

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Getopt::
::Std          Supf  Implements basic getopt and getopts
::Long         Supf  Advanced option handling                     JV
::Gnu          adcf  GNU form of long option handling             WSCOT

ConfigReader   cdpO  Read directives from configuration file      AMW


_______________________________________________________________________

13) Internationalization and Locale

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
I18N::
::Collate      bdpr  Locale based comparisons                     JHI
::WideMulti    i     Wide and multibyte character string          JHI


_______________________________________________________________________

14) Security and Encryption

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
DES            adcf  DES encryption (libdes)                      EAYNG
Des            adcf  DES encryption (libdes)                      MICB
MD5            adcf  MD5 message digest algorithm                 NWINT
Kerberos       adcf  Kerberos IV authentication                   MICB
GSS            i     Generic Security Services API (RFC 1508/9)   MSHLD


_______________________________________________________________________

15) World Wide Web, HTML, HTTP, CGI, MIME etc (see Text Processing)

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
URI::
::Escape       ampf  General URI escaping/unescaping functions    LWWWP
::URL          RmpO  Uniform Resource Locator objects             LWWWP

CGI::
::Base         bmpO  Complete HTTPD CGI Interface class           CGIP
::MiniSvr      bmpO  Fork CGI app as a per-session mini server    CGIP
::Request      bmpO  Parse CGI request and handle form fields     CGIP
::Response     cmpO  Response construction for CGI applications   CGIP
::Imagemap     ampO  Imagemap handling for specialized apps       MGH
::UnixSocket   cmcf  Runs cgi in background through unix socket   AMW
::ErrorWrap    bdpf  Trap warnings and die and convert into HTML  TOMC  +

HTML::
::QuickCheck   cdpf  Fast simple validation of HMTL text          YLU
::Base         adpO  Object-oriented way to build pages of HTML   GAND
::Simple       bdpf  Simple functions for generating HTML         TOMC  +

HTTP::
::Date         bmpf  Date conversion for HTTP date formats        LWWWP
::Headers      bmpO  Class encapsulating HTTP Message headers     LWWWP
::Message      bmpO  Base class for Request/Response              LWWWP
::Request      bmpO  Class encapsulating HTTP Requests            LWWWP
::Response     bmpO  Class encapsulating HTTP Responses           LWWWP
::Status       bmpf  HTTP Status code processing                  LWWWP

WWW::
::RobotRules   ampO  Parse /robots.txt file                       LWWWP
::Log          i     Parse Common Log File Format

LWP::                Libwww-perl5
::MediaTypes   anpf  Media types and mailcap processing           LWWWP
::Simple       bnpf  Simple procedural interface to libwww-perl   LWWWP
::UserAgent    bnpO  A WWW UserAgent class                        LWWWP
::RobotUA      i     A UserAgent for robot applications           LWWWP
::Protocol::*        LWP support for URL schemes (http, file etc) LWWWP

MIME::
::Base64       Rdpf  Encode/decode Base 64 (RFC 1521)             GAAS  +
::QuotedPrint  Rdpf  Encode/decode Quoted-Printable               GAAS  +
::Handler      i     Base class for MIME content handlers
::Object       i     Base class for MIME decoded objects


_______________________________________________________________________

16) Server and Daemon Utilities

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Server               Hierarchy of generic server classes

Server::Configs::
::BasicConfig  RupO  Configuration template class for servers     JACKS

Server::Initialize::
::Functions    Rupf  Utility functions for initializing servers   JACKS
::Daemon       Rupr  Intializing a daemon server                  JACKS
::Pipe         Rupr  Intializing a server being piped to          JACKS
::InetdService Rupr  Intializing a server started from inetd      JACKS

Server::Server::
::EventDriven  RupO  Triggers objects on i/o, timers & interrupts JACKS

Server::Echo::
::MailPipe     cup   A process which accepts piped mail           JACKS
::TcpDForking  cup   TCP daemon which forks clients               JACKS
::TcpDMplx     cup   TCP daemon which multiplexes clients         JACKS
::TcpISWFork   cup   TCP inetd wait process, forks clients        JACKS
::TcpISWMplx   cup   TCP inetd wait process, multiplexes clients  JACKS
::TcpISNowait  cup   TCP inetd nowait process                     JACKS
::UdpD         cup   UDP daemon                                   JACKS
::UdpIS        cup   UDP inetd process                            JACKS

Server::Inet::
::Functions    cdpf  Utility functions for Inet socket handling   JACKS
::Object       cupO  Basic Inet object                            JACKS
::TcpClientObj cupO  A TCP client (connected) object              JACKS
::TcpMasterObj cupO  A TCP master (listening) object              JACKS
::UdpObj       cupO  A UDP object                                 JACKS

Server::FileQueue::
::Functions    cupf  Functions for handling files and mailboxes   JACKS
::Object       cupO  Basic object                                 JACKS
::DirQueue     cupO  Files queued in a directory                  JACKS
::MboxQueue    cupO  Mail queued in a mail box                    JACKS

Server::Mail::
::Functions    cupf  Functions for handling files and mailboxes   JACKS
::Object       cupO  Basic mail object                            JACKS


_______________________________________________________________________

17) Archiving and Compression

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Compress::
::Zlib         adcO  Interface to the Info-Zip zlib library       PMQS  !


_______________________________________________________________________

18) Images, Pixmap and Bitmap Manipulation, Drawing and Graphing

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
PixDraw        adcO  Drawing and manipulating true color images   KSB
GD             adcO  GIF editing/painting/manipulation            LDS
PGPLOT         Rdof  PGPLOT plotting library - scientific graphs  KGB
OpenGL         adcf  Interface to OpenGL drawing/imaging library  STANM +


_______________________________________________________________________

19) Mail and Usenet News

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Mail::
::Address      adpf  Manipulation of electronic mail addresses    GBARR
::RFC822       adpO  Functions for RFC822 address manipulations   GBARR
::MIME         adpO  Extends Mail::RFC822 to understand MIME      GBARR
::Cap          adpO  Parse mailcap files as specified in RFC 1524 GBARR +
::Send         adpO  Simple interface for sending mail            GBARR
::Mailer       adpO  Simple mail agent interface (see Mail::Send) GBARR
::Util         adpf  Mail utilities (for by some Mail::* modules) GBARR
::SMTP         i     Protocol support including expn
::MH           adcr  MH mail interface                            MRG

News::
::NNTPClient   bdpO  Support for clients of NNTP servers          RVA


_______________________________________________________________________

20) Control Flow Utilities (callbacks and exceptions etc)

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
Callback       RdpO  Define easy to use function callback objects MUIR  +


_______________________________________________________________________

21) File Handle and Input/Output Stream Utilities

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
FileHandle     SupO  File handle objects and methods
Selectable     cdpO  Event-driven I/O streams                     MUIR  +


_______________________________________________________________________

22) Miscellaneous Modules

Name           DSLI  Description                                  Info
-----------    ----  -------------------------------------------- -----
WAIS           Rdcf  Interface to the freeWAIS-sf libraries       ULPFR
Archie         Rdpf  Archie queries via Prospero ARDP protocol    GBOSS !
Pcap           i     An interface for LBL's packet capture lib    AMOSS
Nexus          cdcO  Interface to Nexus (threads/ipc/processes)   RDO
IXO            i     IXO alphanumeric pager protocol
Roman          Rdpf  Convert Roman numbers to and from Arabic     OZAWA !

Bio::
::*            i     Utilities for molecular biology              SEB

Remedy::
::AR           cdcO  Interface to Remedy's Action Request API     RIK

OLE::
::Word_Basic   adc   OLE extension for NT Perl                    WYTAN


=======================================================================


           Part 3 - Big Projects Registry
           ==============================


1) Introduction

This section of the Module List is devoted to listing "Big Projects".
I don't want to define Big (or even Project) here. I hope the items
below speak for themselves. Almost all are just ideas, though some have
been dabbled with.

These are ideas for people with very strong skills and lots of time.
Please talk, and listen, to Larry _before_ starting to do any work on
projects which relate to the core implementation of Perl.

Ask not when these will be implemented but ask how you can help
implement them.


2) Items in the Todo File

The Todo supplied with Perl lists over 60 items in categories ranging
from "Would be nice to have" to "Vague possibilities".

Contacts: LWALL P5P


3) Perl Compiler

Part of the design of Perl 5 was to make it possible to write a
compiler for it. It's a possible master's thesis topic.

Related to this is the ability to save and load a 'flat' byte-code
representation of the compiled perl code. It would be translated back
into Perl's own internal form for speed.

Note that three different prototype Tcl compilers have been announced
in the comp.lang.tcl group! Anyone interested in this should also take
a good look at the Java language from Sun http://java.sun.com/.

Contacts: LWALL P5P


4) Multi-threading

This is really two projects. True threads (e.g., POSIX) using multiple
independant perl interpreter structures and simple timeslicing of
'tasks' within a single perl interpreter. True threads requires
operating system support or an external thread library, simple
timeslicing does not (and should be portable to all platforms).

Contacts: LWALL MICB P5P


5) ! Object Management Group CORBA & IDL

OMG's (Object Management Group) CORBA (Common Object Request Broker
Architecture) specification provides the standard interface definition
between OMG-compliant objects.  IDL (Interface Definition Language) is
the base mechanism for object interaction. Perhaps an extended IDL
compiler which can write XS code would be a good way forward.

Contacts: ASHER, JACKS
Also:
    ftp://omg.org/pub/OMG_IDL/
    http://www.cs.cornell.edu/Info/People/maffeis/electra.html
    ftp://ftp.isi.edu (ORBeline)
    ftp://labrea.stanford.edu
    ftp://parcftp.parc.xerox.com/pub/ilu/ilu.html
    idl-cfe@sun.com


6) Expand Tied Array Interface

LEN, PUSH, POP, SHIFT, UNSHIFT and a fallback to SPLICE are needed.
Complicated by very widespread use of arrays within perl internals.

Contacts: P5P LWALL


7) Tied File Handles

It is a long term goal to allow perl file handles to be tied. This will
probably be based on the sfio (Safe Fast IO) library.

Contacts: PMQS P5P LWALL


8) + Extend Yacc To Write XS Code

Some version of yacc, like byacc or bison, should be converted to spit
out an OO .xs and .pm implementing a parser.

Contacts: NI-S P5P LWALL


9) + Updatable Module List via WWW Forms

The Module List should be built from some form of database. The
database should be updatable using WWW forms by the owners of the
Modules. The database should store extra information such as links to
the latest version.  Andreas Koenig (ANDK) is working on this.

Contacts: ANDK TIMB



=======================================================================


           Part 4 - Who's Who and What's Where
           ===================================


1) Information / Contact Reference Details (in alphabetical order)

  Ref    Contact Details
  -----  --------------------------------------------------------------
  ADESC  Alligator Descartes <descarte@mcqueen.com>
+ AGUL   Ashish Gulhati <http://netropolis.org/~hash>
+ AKSTE  Alan K. Stebbens <aks@hub.ucsb.edu>
  AMOSS  Amos Shapira <amoss@cs.huji.ac.il>
  AMW    Andrew Wilcox <awilcox@world.std.com>
  ANDK   Andreas Koenig <a.koenig@franz.ww.TU-Berlin.DE>
  ASHER  Aaron Sherman <asherman@world.std.com>
  BARTS  Bart Schuller <P.B.Schuller@cuci.nl>
  BBUM   Bill Bumgarner <bbum@friday.com>
  BPETH  Bill Petheram <petheram@acm.org>
  CBAIL  Charles Bailey <bailey@genetics.upenn.edu>
  CGIP   The CGI-Perl Developers mailing list
         Mail CGI-perl-REQUEST@webstorm.com with body "subscribe"
  DBPRL  DBperl mailing list.
         Mail perldb-interest-REQUEST@vix.com with body "subscribe"
  CGIP   The CGI-Perl Developers mailing list <CGI-perl@webstorm.com>
  DBPRL  DBperl mailing list. <perldb-interest@vix.com>
  DMEGG  David Megginson <dmeggins@aix1.uottawa.ca>
  DMO    Darryl Okahata <darrylo@sr.hp.com>
  DMR    Dean Roehrich <roehrich@cray.com>
  DNAD   Dave Nadler <nadler@ug.eds.com>
  EAYNG  Eric Young <eay@mincom.oz.au>
  ERICA  Eric Arnold <Eric.Arnold@corp.sun.com>
  FMC    Frederic Chauveau <fmc@pasteur.fr>
  GAAS   Gisle Aas <aas@oslonett.no>
  GAND   Greg Anderson <greg@ftp.netgate.net>
  GBARR  Graham Barr <Graham.Barr@tiuk.ti.com>
  GBOSS  Greg Bossert <bossert@noc.rutgers.edu>
  GSAR   Gurusamy Sarathy <gsar@engin.umich.edu>
  GSM    Joe Marzot <gmarzot@baynetworks.com>
  GSPAF  Gene Spafford <spaf@cs.purdue.edu>
  IANPX  Ian Phillipps <ian@pipex.net>
  ILYAZ  Ilya Zakharevich <ilya@math.ohio-state.edu>
  JACKS  Jack Shirazi ftp://ftp.icnet.uk/icrf-public/biu/perlmods/JACKS.html
  JHI    Jarkko Hietaniemi <Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi>
  JKAST  Jason Kastner <jkastner@oboe.calpoly.edu>
  JKEGL  Jeffrey Kegler <jeffrey@best.com>
+ JPC    Jan-Pieter Cornet <johnpc@xs4all.nl>
  JV     Johan Vromans <jv@inter.NL.net>
  JWAT   John Watson <jwatson@cnj.digex.net>
  KGB    Karl Glazebrook <kgb@ast.cam.ac.uk>
  KJALB  Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
  KSB    Simon Berg <karl@it.kth.se>
  LDS    Lincoln D. Stein <lstein@genome.wi.mit.edu>
  LSTAF  Lennart Staflin <lenst@lysator.liu.se>
  LWALL  Larry Wall. Author of Perl. Busy man. <lwall@netlabs.com>
  LWWWP  libwww-perl mailing list.
         Mail to libwww-perl-REQUEST@ics.uci.edu with body "subscribe"
  MARCP  Marc Paquette <Marc.Paquette@crim.ca>
  MARKB  Mark Biggar <mab@wdl.loral.com>
  MERGL  Edmund Mergl <emergl@stgl.sel.alcatel.de>
  MEWP   Michael Peppler <mpeppler@itf.ch>
  MGH    Marc Hedlund <hedlund@best.com>
  MHM    Mike Moran <mhm@austin.ibm.com>
  MICB   Malcolm Beattie <mbeattie@sable.ox.ac.uk>
  MRG    Matthew Green <mrg@mame.mu.oz.au>
  MSHLD  Michael Shields <shields@tembel.org>
+ MUIR   David Muir Sharnoff <muir@idiom.com>
  NI-S   Nick Ing-Simmons <nik@tiuk.ti.com>
  NWINT  Neil Winton <nwinton@axion.bt.co.uk>
  OZAWA  OZAWA Sakuro <ozawa@prince.pe.u-tokyo.ac.jp>
  P5P    The Perl5 Porters Mailing List.
         Mail to perl5-porters-REQUEST@nicoh.com with body "subscribe"
  PATM   Pat Martin <pat@bronco.advance.com>
  PGUEN  Philip Guenther <guenther@gac.edu>
  PKUTS  Peter Kutschera <peter@zditr1.arcs.ac.at>
  PMQS   Paul Marquess <pmarquess@bfsec.bt.co.uk>
+ RAM    Raphael Manfredi <ram@hptnos02.grenoble.hp.com>
  RDO    Robert Olson <olson@mcs.anl.gov>
  RIK    Rik Harris <rik.harris@fulcrum.com.au>
  RJRAY  Randy J Ray <rjray@lookout.ecte.uswc.uswest.com>
  RVA    Rodger Anderson <rodger@boi.hp.com>
  SEB    Steven Brenner <S.E.Brenner@bioc.cam.ac.uk>
  SEMM   Steve Emmerson <support@unidata.ucar.edu>
  SGEL   Sergio Gelato <gelato@oort.ap.sissa.it>
+ SHGUN  Shishir Gundavaram <shishir@acs.bu.edu>
  SKUNZ  Steven L. Kunz <skunz@iastate.edu>
  SPIDB  Spider Boardman <spider@orb.nashua.nh.us>
+ STANM  Stan Melax <stan@skyler.arc.ab.ca>
  TIMB   Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
  TKML   Tk Perl Mailing list.
         Mail to majordomo@wpi.edu with body "subscribe ptk <your-address>"
  TLP    Travis L Priest <T.L.Priest@LaRC.NASA.GOV>
  TOMC   Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
  TOMH   Tom Horsley <tom@ssd.csd.harris.com>
  TYEMQ  Tye McQueen <tye@metronet.com>
  ULPFR  Ulrich Pfeifer <pfeifer@ls6.informatik.uni-dortmund.de>
+ WINKO  Winfried Koenig <win@in.rhein-main.de>
  WPS    William Setzer <William_Setzer@ncsu.edu>
  WSCOT  Wayne Scott <wscott@ichips.intel.com>
  WYTAN  Wei-Yuen Tan <Wei-Yuen_Tan@hip.com>
  YLU    Luke Y. Lu <ylu@mail.utexas.edu>
+ YVESP  Yves Paindaveine <yp@gr.osf.org>


2) Perl Frequently Asked Questions (FAQ) and Other Resources

  Perl Meta-FAQ
    http://www.khoros.unm.edu/staff/neilb/perl/metaFAQ
    http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/perl/metaFAQ.html
    http://web.nexor.co.uk/perl/Meta-FAQ.txt

  Perl FAQ
    http://mox.perl.com/perl/faq
    ftp://rtfm.mit.edu/pub/usenet/news.answers/perl-faq/
    ftp://ftp.uu.net/usenet/news.answers/perl-faq/
    ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/doc/FAQ
    ftp://ftp.khoros.unm.edu/pub/perl/faq.gz
    ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/NEWS.ANSWERS/perl-faq/
    ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/doc/faq
    ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk/packages/perl/FAQ


3) Comprehensive Perl Archive Network Sites

    ftp://ftp.funet.fi/pub/languages/perl/CPAN
    ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/Perl/CPAN
    ftp://ftp.cis.ufl.edu/pub/perl/CPAN
    ftp://ftp.cs.ruu.nl/pub/PERL/CPAN
    ftp://janus.sedl.org/pub/mirrors/CPAN
    ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/mirrors/perl/CPAN

4) Other Perl Archive Sites

    ftp://ftp.delphi.com/pub/mirrors/packages/ftp.perl.com/
    ftp://ftp.delphi.com/pub/mirrors/packages/perl/
    ftp://ftp.cdrom.com/pub/perl
    ftp://coombs.anu.edu.au/pub/perl
    ftp://ftp.cbi.tamucc.edu/pub/duff/Perl
    ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/perl
    ftp://ftp.khoros.unm.edu/pub/perl
    ftp://ftp.metronet.com/pub/perl
    ftp://ftp.uu.net/languages/perl
    ftp://ftp.wpi.edu/perl5
    ftp://ftp.zrz.tu-berlin.de/pub/unix/perl
    ftp://perl.com/pub/perl
    ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk/packages/perl
    ftp://src.doc.ic.ac.uk/packages/perl5
    ftp://sungear.mame.mu.oz.au/pub/perl


End.

From kjahds@kjahds.com Fri Oct  6 20:44:32 1995
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  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:00:20 -0500
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	  Fri, 6 Oct 95 16:44 EDT
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 16:44:32 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: by-module, by-category
In-Reply-To: <9510061926.ab16968@relay-3.mail.demon.net>
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.951006164248.312C-100000@kjahds.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Tim Bunce wrote:

> I don't know enough about these to add them:
> 
> > NWINT/SHA-                    99 SHA
> > GSAR/Dumper-                  99 Dumper
> > KJALB/SetDualVar-             99 SetDualVar

SetDualVar sets a variable to have different string and numeric values. I 
have no idea where it would best fit in the modulelist.


--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Fri Oct  6 20:25:54 1995
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN progress report
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 1995 21:25:54 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id: <9510062128.aa20640@relay-3.mail.demon.net>


> From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
> 
> Uh oh, three days not reading my email and so many packrats suggestions...
> I may not have read them all or understood them -- or agreed on them :-)
> But here are some things I have done during the last few days:
> 
> 	mv db dbperl			# the DBPerl project is a biggie
> 					# and I dare not integrate it into
> 					# the pml unless they themselves go
> 					# ahead and do it
> 
Let's leave it for now. I'll look at it again once things settle down.

> 	Summa summarum for the modules/:
> 
> 	modules/
> 		*.html
> 		by-author/
> 		dbperl/
> 		misc/
> 		perl4/
> 
I'd suggest a symlink:

	modules/perl4/db -> modules/dbperl/perl4

or break up the ftp.demon.co.uk mirror into several smaller mirrors: db/perl4,
db/DBI + db/DBD + db/mod and others.

In the medium term I expect I'll change db/mod to be a bunch of symlinks into
ftp.demon's mirror of CPAN (!) so splitting your mirror into parts would
probably be a good move.

> No, CPAN is not yet officially online. RSN.

The CPAN does get a heavy mention in the forthcoming Module List (to be
posted 5am Tuesday). Is that okay?

Tim.

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Fri Oct  6 21:46:09 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN perl-5.001m.tar.gz needed
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Tim Bunce writes:
 > 
 > Not mirroring ftp.netlabs.com/pub/outgoing/perl5.0/ in CPAN would be daft.
 > 

OK. How often, is the question?

++jhi;
 

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Fri Oct  6 21:57:12 1995
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Subject: Re: CPAN progress report
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 > > No, CPAN is not yet officially online. RSN.
 > 
 > The CPAN does get a heavy mention in the forthcoming Module List (to be
 > posted 5am Tuesday). Is that okay?

I guess so, I have not got any replies to my question "is anything
glaringly obvious missing for CPAN" from you packrats...

++jhi;

From k@anna.mind.de Sat Oct  7 11:58:04 1995
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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 12:58:04 +0100
Message-Id: <199510071158.MAA10024@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9510061926.ab16968@relay-3.mail.demon.net> (message from Tim
	Bunce on Fri, 6 Oct 1995 19:00:17 +0100)
Subject: Re: by-module, by-category
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de


    >> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
    >> 
    >> Tim, the current trees do not yet reflect the blueprint modulelist you
    >> sent me today, but in general the 99 directory might be an interesting
    >> place for you. It shows you all the packages that haven't yet found a
    >> place in the modulelist. (which doesn't imply, that they need one)
    >> 
    Tim> I've attached another modulelist update. This one will be posted Tuesday.

I hope very much, that I can run it through my parser till monday. I
haven't cared for multiline entries in the who-is-who section yet, so
there's some work to be done first.

    >> my $chaptitle = {qw[
    >> 02 02_Core_Modules

    Tim> These titles will vary from time to time.

I'm quite confident, that I can catch all these changes with my parser.

    >> JACKS/Socket\.                99 Socket

    Tim> That's in the list but without an owner. Has been for ages.
    Tim> Perhaps the logic needs reviewing for this situation (people
    Tim> supplying variants of the same module).

That's easy from my point of view. We have already

Net::
::FTP          idpf  Implements File Transfer Protocol interface  GSPAF
::FTP          adpf  Interface to File Transfer Protocol          GBARR

So we can extend that to

Socket         Sucf  Defines all socket-related constants
Socket         a     Blurb                                        JACKS
Socket         a     Blurb                                        FOO


    Tim> I don't know enough about these to add them:

    >> NWINT/SHA-                    99 SHA
    >> GSAR/Dumper-                  99 Dumper
    >> KJALB/SetDualVar-             99 SetDualVar

Kenneth has heard the call, I'll keep an eye open for the others.


    Tim> These are not modules:

    >> ILYAZ/etext/etext\d           99 etext
    >> ILYAZ/perl5db-kit-            99 perl5db
    >> PMQS/xsubpp-                  99 xsubpp
    >> ILYAZ/cperl-mode/cperl-mode\.el\.        99 emacs

    Tim> It would be handy if you could distinguish modules which aren't
    Tim> in the module list yet from things that aren't modules at all.

Will do.

    Tim> Nagging authors of the former to send me an entry would also be handy!

    >> Finally, it's done. Looking forward to feedback. Feedback
    >> as enthusiastic approval or as code donation preferred :).
    >> 
    Tim> You have my enthusiastic approval!

Thanks!


    Tim> Tim.


andreas

From k@anna.mind.de Sat Oct  7 12:10:09 1995
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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 13:10:09 +0100
Message-Id: <199510071210.NAA10077@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9510051325.ab22956@relay-3.mail.demon.net> (message from Tim
	Bunce on Thu, 5 Oct 1995 13:13:21 +0100)
Subject: Re: CPAN deletes, etc.
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk> writes:

    Tim> Umm, yes, and that'll only get worse. Okay, maybe we could have a
    Tim> CPAN/authors/id/ tree for URL's so we'd have both ...

    Tim>       CPAN/authors/Alligator_Descartes  ->  CPAN/modules/by-author/ADESC/
    Tim>       CPAN/authors/id/ADESC             ->  CPAN/modules/by-author/ADESC/

    >> But if you say, my proposal is ok, then I implement it immediately.

    Tim> Great.

    Tim> In the long run I see the Module Server ending up as a 'Perl Authors Server'
    Tim> so perhaps the modules/by-author/ tree would actually end up moving to
    Tim> become the authors/id/ tree and the modules/by-author tree being symlinks.

If we don't do it now, it will just become harder to implement it
later. And as you're all preparing the announcements for Tuesday, I'm
gonna change that now. I hope, this will be the last change for "my"
trees. I think, it will encourage people to upload their complete
software packages and scripts, and all "incoming" directories around
the globe can be managed from one site.

This means doing right now:

    mkdir authors
    mkdir authors/id
    cp -rp modules/by-author/* authors/id/

and later today:

    rm -rf modules/by-author/*

and a new script for the symlinks in authors/ and modules/

 
    Tim> Tim.

andreas

From jhi@beta.hut.fi Sat Oct  7 12:43:35 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN deletes, etc.
In-Reply-To: <199510071210.NAA10077@anna.mind.de>
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Uhm. A new CPAN top-level directory called authors. Uhm.
I hope you realise that if anybody asks this was your idea, not mine. :-)

++jhi;

From k@anna.mind.de Sat Oct  7 13:10:12 1995
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Date: Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:10:12 +0100
Message-Id: <199510071310.OAA10275@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9510071243.AA11794@beta.hut.fi> (message from Jarkko Hietaniemi
	on Sat, 7 Oct 1995 14:43:35 +0200)
Subject: Re: CPAN deletes, etc.
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "Jarkko" == Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi> writes:

    Jarkko> Uhm. A new CPAN top-level directory called authors. Uhm.
    Jarkko> I hope you realise that if anybody asks this was your idea, not mine. :-)

It was Tim's idea, and I was waiting for somebody to speak up against it.

I think, that's the final cut:

authors/id/ADESC           # the meat
authors/Alligator_Descartes                     -> id/ADESC
modules/by-author                               -> ../authors
modules/by-module/AddInc/AddINC-1.1.tar.gz      -> ../../../authors/id/GBARR/AddINC-1.1.tar.gz

And the 00 files

authors/00authors.html
modules/00modlist.long.html

Should we stop that? Does it make sense?


    Jarkko> ++jhi;

andreas

From jhi@beta.hut.fi Sat Oct  7 13:18:42 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@beta.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: CPAN deletes, etc.
In-Reply-To: <199510071310.OAA10275@anna.mind.de>
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 > It was Tim's idea, and I was waiting for somebody to speak up against it.
 > 
 > I think, that's the final cut:
 > 
 > authors/id/ADESC           # the meat
 > authors/Alligator_Descartes                     -> id/ADESC
 > modules/by-author                               -> ../authors
 > modules/by-module/AddInc/AddINC-1.1.tar.gz      -> ../../../authors/id/GBARR/AddINC-1.1.tar.gz
 > 
 > And the 00 files
 > 
 > authors/00authors.html
 > modules/00modlist.long.html
 > 
 > Should we stop that? Does it make sense?
 > 

Actually, it is fine by me, I just get these allergic reactions whenever
CPAN gets new top-level directories...

 > andreas

++jhi;

From k@anna.mind.de Sat Oct  7 13:37:03 1995
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From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9510071318.AA15185@beta.hut.fi> (message from Jarkko Hietaniemi
	on Sat, 7 Oct 1995 15:18:42 +0200)
Subject: Re: CPAN deletes, etc.
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de


    Jarkko> Actually, it is fine by me, I just get these allergic reactions whenever
    Jarkko> CPAN gets new top-level directories...

Thank you, the decision was not easy for me either, had a bad night :)

I have deleted modules/by-*, and am going to set it up immediately if
you give me a go.

    Jarkko> ++jhi;

andreas

From a5g192@ugrad.cs.ubc.ca Sat Oct  7 11:02:19 1995
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Whoever's currently responsible for mirroring the NT Perl 5 stuff from
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Wei-Yuen Tan
hip communications inc.

     **  Wei-Yuen Tan monkeyboy@pobox.com http://pobox.com/~monkeyboy  **


From Eric.Arnold@Corp.Sun.COM Sun Oct  8 02:35:51 1995
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To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: where to put stuff?


I just got a message from Randal saying that I shouldn't post code
to comp.lang.perl.announce, but that someone here can tell me where 
to find a good public place for it.

Thanks,
-Eric

From k@anna.mind.de Sun Oct  8 05:36:26 1995
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Date: Sun, 8 Oct 1995 06:36:26 +0100
Message-Id: <199510080536.GAA13432@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Eric.Arnold@Corp.Sun.COM
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9510080235.AA01832@animus.Corp.Sun.COM>
	(Eric.Arnold@Corp.Sun.COM)
Subject: Re: where to put stuff?
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "Eric" == Eric Arnold <Eric.Arnold@Corp.Sun.COM> writes:

    Eric> I just got a message from Randal saying that I shouldn't post code
    Eric> to comp.lang.perl.announce, but that someone here can tell me where 
    Eric> to find a good public place for it.

    Eric> Thanks,
    Eric> -Eric

Upload to ftp://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/incoming/ and write me.

See http://franz.ww.tu-berlin.de/modulelist for the current state of
the project. Announcements RSN.


andreas

From k@anna.mind.de Sun Oct  8 06:50:44 1995
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Message-Id: <199510080650.HAA13672@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
In-Reply-To: <9510041218.ab12625@relay-1.mail.demon.net> (message from Tim
	Bunce on Wed, 4 Oct 1995 11:55:00 +0100)
Subject: Re: CPAN database
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk> writes:

    Tim>           ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/mirrors/perl/CPAN/

    Tim> This is *really* fast for demon's 36,000 users in the UK :-)

If you have any chance to tell them, that they should raise the number
of connections allowed, this would really be helpful. among all
servers I connect with regularly demon is the one with the biggest
probability get this:

     Sorry, the limit for anonymous connections has been exceeded. Please
     try later. User anonymous access denied.. 


just in case you don't know,
andreas

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Mon Oct  9 09:49:49 1995
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN perl-5.001m.tar.gz needed
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:49:49 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
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> From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
> 
> Tim Bunce writes:
>  > 
>  > Not mirroring ftp.netlabs.com/pub/outgoing/perl5.0/ in CPAN would be daft.
>  > 
> 
> OK. How often, is the question?
> 
It's a very small directory. I'd suggest daily.

As for time-of-day... ask Larry what time of day he'll release 5.002 :-)

Tim.

From gsar@aatma.engin.umich.edu Mon Oct  9 16:06:21 1995
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To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: by-module, by-category 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Fri, 06 Oct 1995 19:00:17 BST."
             <9510061926.ab16968@relay-3.mail.demon.net> 
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 1995 12:06:21 -0400
From: Gurusamy Sarathy <gsar@engin.umich.edu>

On Fri, 06 Oct 1995 19:00:17 BST, Tim Bunce wrote:
>
>I don't know enough about these to add them:
>
>> NWINT/SHA-                    99 SHA
>> GSAR/Dumper-                  99 Dumper
>> KJALB/SetDualVar-             99 SetDualVar
>

Dumper is a generic module that allows perlification of structures, and it
is a part of the (as yet unreleased) Tkperldb.  It currently understands
recursive structures and is fairly robust for general use.

I am not sure if it would be more appropriately called Devel::Dumper.  I'll
make the change and upload a revised (and more up-to-date) version if you
agree.

 - Sarathy.
   gsar@engin.umich.edu

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Mon Oct  9 09:12:20 1995
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To: kjahds@kjahds.com
Subject: Re: by-module, by-category
Cc: perl5-porters@nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 10:12:20 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
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> From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
> 
> On Fri, 6 Oct 1995, Tim Bunce wrote:
> 
> > I don't know enough about these to add them:
> > 
> > > NWINT/SHA-                    99 SHA
> > > GSAR/Dumper-                  99 Dumper
> > > KJALB/SetDualVar-             99 SetDualVar
> 
> SetDualVar sets a variable to have different string and numeric values. I 
> have no idea where it would best fit in the modulelist.
> 
It probably belongs as an example in the perlapi or perlguts pods
and not as an extension.

Could you produce a patch to a pod for that?

Tim.

From kjahds@kjahds.com Mon Oct  9 22:30:55 1995
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Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 18:30:55 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: perl5-porters@nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: by-module, by-category
In-Reply-To: <9510091324.aa03980@relay-3.mail.demon.net>
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On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, Tim Bunce wrote:

> It probably belongs as an example in the perlapi or perlguts pods
> and not as an extension.
> 
> Could you produce a patch to a pod for that?

Yes, I suppose so. It snuggles half-way well in at the end of perlapi. 
More expository stuff could be included, though. 

> Tim.

*** perlapi.pod.save	Mon Oct  9 18:24:03 1995
--- perlapi.pod	Mon Oct  9 18:28:57 1995
***************
*** 954,957 ****
--- 954,1010 ----
  
  
+ =head1 ANOTHER EXAMPLE
+ 
+ SetDualVar changes a normal scalar into a doubly-typed scalar.
+ 
+ File C<SetDualVar.xs>:
+ 
+ 	#include "EXTERN.h"
+ 	#include "perl.h"
+ 	#include "XSUB.h"
+ 	
+ 	MODULE = SetDualVar		PACKAGE = SetDualVar
+ 	
+ 	
+ 	void
+ 	SetDualVar(variable,string,number)
+ 		SV *	variable
+ 		SV *	string
+ 		SV *	number
+ 		CODE:
+ 		{
+ 		 SvPV(string,na);
+ 		 if(!SvPOKp(string) || 
+ 		    (!SvNOKp(numeric) && 
+ 		    !SvIOKp(numeric)) ) {
+ 		 	croak("Usage: SetDualVar variable,string,number");
+ 		 }
+ 		 	
+ 		 sv_setsv(variable,string);
+ 		 if(SvNOKp(number)) {
+ 		 	sv_setnv(variable,SvNV(number));
+ 		 } else {
+ 		 	sv_setiv(variable,SvIV(number));
+ 		 }
+ 		 SvPOK_on(variable);
+ 		}
+ 
+ File C<SetDualVar.pm>:
+ 
+ 	package SetDualVar;
+ 	
+ 	require Exporter;
+ 	require DynaLoader;
+ 	
+ 	@ISA = qw(Exporter DynaLoader);
+ 	@EXPORT = qw( SetDualVar );
+ 	@EXPORT_OK = qw( );
+ 	
+ 	bootstrap SetDualVar;
+ 	
+ 	1;
+ 	__END__
+ 
+ 
  =head1 AUTHOR
  


--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Mon Oct  9 16:35:43 1995
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To: gsar@engin.umich.edu
Subject: Re: by-module, by-category
Cc: andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 17:35:43 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id: <9510091736.aa03743@relay-3.mail.demon.net>


> From: Gurusamy Sarathy <gsar@engin.umich.edu>
> 
> On Fri, 06 Oct 1995 19:00:17 BST, Tim Bunce wrote:
> >
> >I don't know enough about these to add them:
> >
> >> NWINT/SHA-                    99 SHA
> >> GSAR/Dumper-                  99 Dumper
> >> KJALB/SetDualVar-             99 SetDualVar
> >
> 
> Dumper is a generic module that allows perlification of structures, and it
> is a part of the (as yet unreleased) Tkperldb.  It currently understands
> recursive structures and is fairly robust for general use.

Umm. what do you mean by 'perlification'?

> I am not sure if it would be more appropriately called Devel::Dumper.  I'll
> make the change and upload a revised (and more up-to-date) version if you
> agree.

I view the Devel:: tree as being for development-time tools that _don't_ get
shipped as part of a runtime module (although some dubious ones are in there).
So no, don't put it in Devel::.

It would be good to find another home for it since it doesn't really
belong at the top level. I'm currently considering adding a Data::
category for Perl Data Type Independant utility modules. I think:

	Data::Dumper

sounds rather good. I think this would be a natural home for data type
traversal and related modules.

Okay? (In fact I'll do it now since the list goes out tomorrow. I can
always change it later.)

Tim.

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Mon Oct  9 15:45:47 1995
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To: andreas.koenig@mind.de, malcolm@thokk.demon.co.uk
Subject: Re: CPAN database
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:45:47 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id: <9510091646.ac20273@relay-3.mail.demon.net>


> From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
> 
> >>>>> "Tim" == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk> writes:
> 
>     Tim>           ftp://ftp.demon.co.uk/pub/mirrors/perl/CPAN/
> 
>     Tim> This is *really* fast for demon's 36,000 users in the UK :-)
> 
> If you have any chance to tell them, that they should raise the number
> of connections allowed, this would really be helpful. among all
> servers I connect with regularly demon is the one with the biggest
> probability get this:
> 
>      Sorry, the limit for anonymous connections has been exceeded. Please
>      try later. User anonymous access denied.. 
> 
> just in case you don't know,
> andreas

I know they have lower limits for non-customers.

It would make sense for them to allow mirroring sites in more readily.

I'll CC this to Malcolm Muir <malcolm@thokk.demon.co.uk> who
administers the Demon ftp archive.

Malcolm, any chance of a dispensation for the CPAN master site
ftp.funet.fi and the Module Server master site mind.de ?
(If so do you want the IP addresses and/or non-anonymous user ids?)

Tim.

From k@anna.mind.de Tue Oct 10 07:00:16 1995
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Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 08:00:16 +0100
Message-Id: <199510100700.IAA07843@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Cc: malcolm@thokk.demon.co.uk, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
In-Reply-To: <9510091646.ac20273@relay-3.mail.demon.net> (message from Tim
	Bunce on Mon, 9 Oct 1995 16:45:47 +0100)
Subject: Re: CPAN database
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "Tim" == Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk> writes:

    >> Sorry, the limit for anonymous connections has been exceeded. Please
    >> try later. User anonymous access denied.. 
    >> 
    >> just in case you don't know,
    >> andreas

    Tim> I know they have lower limits for non-customers.

    Tim> It would make sense for them to allow mirroring sites in more readily.

    Tim> I'll CC this to Malcolm Muir <malcolm@thokk.demon.co.uk> who
    Tim> administers the Demon ftp archive.

    Tim> Malcolm, any chance of a dispensation for the CPAN master site
    Tim> ftp.funet.fi and the Module Server master site mind.de ?
                                                        ^^^^^^^

make this franz.ww.tu-berlin.de (130.149.200.51), he's doing the work.
Would be really great to have an easier access. 

    Tim> (If so do you want the IP addresses and/or non-anonymous user ids?)

    Tim> Tim.

andreas

From gsar@aatma.engin.umich.edu Tue Oct 10 13:55:25 1995
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To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: gsar@engin.umich.edu, andreas.koenig@mind.de, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: by-module, by-category 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Mon, 09 Oct 1995 17:35:43 BST."
             <9510091736.aa03743@relay-3.mail.demon.net> 
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 1995 09:55:25 -0400
From: Gurusamy Sarathy <gsar@engin.umich.edu>

On Mon, 09 Oct 1995 17:35:43 BST, Tim Bunce wrote:
>
>> From: Gurusamy Sarathy <gsar@engin.umich.edu>
>> 
>> Dumper is a generic module that allows perlification of structures, and it
>> is a part of the (as yet unreleased) Tkperldb.  It currently understands
>> recursive structures and is fairly robust for general use.
>
>Umm. what do you mean by 'perlification'?

Just another name I made up (as if we dont have enough of those already!) for
writing structures in valid perl syntax.

>
>I view the Devel:: tree as being for development-time tools that _don't_ get
>shipped as part of a runtime module (although some dubious ones are in there).
>So no, don't put it in Devel::.
>

I agree.  I was going to suggest Data:: myself..

>It would be good to find another home for it since it doesn't really
>belong at the top level. I'm currently considering adding a Data::
>category for Perl Data Type Independant utility modules. I think:
>
>	Data::Dumper
>
>sounds rather good. I think this would be a natural home for data type
>traversal and related modules.
>
>Okay? (In fact I'll do it now since the list goes out tomorrow. I can
>always change it later.)

Good. Many thanks.

>
>Tim.
>

 - Sarathy.
   gsar@engin.umich.edu

P.S: I got _three_ copies of your message, for some strange reason. Hope
     the affliction on p5p is not contagious :-)

From pmarquess@claudius.bfsec.bt.co.uk Wed Oct 11 05:39:26 1995
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From: pmarquess@bfsec.bt.co.uk (Paul Marquess)
Message-Id: <9510111043.AA05249@claudius.bfsec.bt.co.uk>
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, kjahds@kjahds.com
Subject: Re: by-module, by-category
Cc: perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com

From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
> 
> On Mon, 9 Oct 1995, Tim Bunce wrote:
> 
> > It probably belongs as an example in the perlapi or perlguts pods
> > and not as an extension.
> > 
> > Could you produce a patch to a pod for that?
> 
> Yes, I suppose so. It snuggles half-way well in at the end of perlapi. 
> More expository stuff could be included, though. 

I thing perlguts would be a better place for it.

Paul

From kjahds@kjahds.com Wed Oct 11 10:43:06 1995
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Date: Wed, 11 Oct 1995 06:43:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Paul Marquess <pmarquess@bfsec.bt.co.uk>
Cc: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk, perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com,
        perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: by-module, by-category
In-Reply-To: <9510111043.AA05249@claudius.bfsec.bt.co.uk>
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On Wed, 11 Oct 1995, Paul Marquess wrote:

> > Yes, I suppose so. It snuggles half-way well in at the end of perlapi. 
> > More expository stuff could be included, though. 
> 
> I thing perlguts would be a better place for it.

Dean Roehrich has mentioned this to me, and is generally talking about
reorganizing perlapi and perlguts a little. Hopefully that chunk of code
can find a good home -- it's a simple example of both guts _and_ XS,
unfortunately. 

> Paul

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From k@anna.mind.de Thu Oct 12 09:12:24 1995
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Date: Thu, 12 Oct 1995 10:12:24 +0100
Message-Id: <199510120912.KAA18538@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: CPAN && perl.com
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

I fetched your INDEX file yesterday, and I must say, it's currently
rather difficult to mirror your own work into CPAN. May I suggest you
to build a directory that contains only your own work, so that I can
mirror a single directory to CPAN/authors/id/TOMC?

It is ok, if this directory is made up of symlinks only. Something like

my_CPAN_directory/
    GetDate-X.X.shar.gz    -> perl/ext/GetDate.shar.gz
    HTML-Simple-X.X.pm     -> perl/ext/CGI/lib-perl5/HTML/Simple.pm
    Nice???      -> perl/scripts/ADVLABS/nice # modulelist has no Nice, you seem to have?
    PDSC         -> perl/doc/PDSC/
    SYS???       -> ????                      # Can't find it!!!
    scripts      -> perl/scripts/myown/
    versus       -> perl/versus/

??

I think, with the recent changes to the CPAN trees we have turned the
Module List Server into a true

    Perl Authors Upload Server or
    CPAN Lounge or
    Open CPAN

Authors are found with their full name in the authors/ directory which
is a symlink to their userid

    CPAN/authors/Tom_Christiansen  -> id/TOMC/

The modules tree now solely contains symlinks (except for the
htmlified modulelist) and thusly documents that our goal is to serve
for everything associated with perl, not only modules.

If in addition to the above you could decide to mirror CPAN and get
rid of your ext directory which currently misses many recent additions
to CPAN you could do us all a great favor. If you then do your agrep
work on top of it, many sites could offer the same service, because
they all have the same directory structure, either on their own disk
or somewhere near-by.

andreas

(CC to packrats for those you wonder why TOMC/ directory is still
empty and in case anybody has objections to my proposal)

From k@anna.mind.de Thu Oct 12 09:28:35 1995
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Message-Id: <199510120928.KAA18600@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: ram@hptnos02.grenoble.hp.com
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <27288.813487945@hptnoc13.grenoble.hp.com> (message from Raphael
	Manfredi on Thu, 12 Oct 95 09:52:25 +0100)
Subject: Re: Set::Scalar
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de


     > Class #3 may be distributed via today's means (CPAN) until it
     > becomes so widely famous it is promoted to class #2 or even #1, or
     > is forgotten forever. ;-)

By the way, Raphael, you're *very* welcome if you would like to
distribute mailagent, cshar and/or dist on the CPAN.

I have just started to use your mailagent, and my .rules file isn't
yet optimized, but once I get a comfortable feeling with it, we could
even make it possible, that people upload with their pgp signature via
email. Not tomorrow, but a tempting idea for long term development.


andreas

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Thu Oct 12 20:16:07 1995
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From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Message-Id: <199510122016.OAA17179@mox.perl.com>
To: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Perl 4 (fwd)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc
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References: <10OCT199515044027@jane.uh.edu>
Organization: Perl Consulting and Training
Cc: 

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In-reply-to: biolfc@jane.uh.edu's message of 10 Oct 1995 15:04 CDT

In article <10OCT199515044027@jane.uh.edu> biolfc@jane.uh.edu (Chang, Yu Y) writes:
   Does anyone know where I can download a copy of
   Perl version 4.0 on the web?
   Everywhere I look, I see version 5.
   I know that I am regressing but most of the scripts that
   I am trying to modify are written with version 4. 
   Thanks in advance,

Most of the major archives carry both versions.  If you check somewhere
like ftp.cis.ufl.edu:/pub/perl/CPAN, you should find a source subdirectory.
4.036 is within the dist subdirectory.

BTW: Whoever is handling the CPAN:  I think the source tree needs some
work.  I was wondering why so many questions were popping up about 5.001
(standard), and now I see why.  We really should have a full 5.001m
distribution available, not just 5.001 and all the patches.

-spp
--
Stephen P Potter        Pencom Systems Administration         AMP Incorporated
spp@peach.epix.net	spp@psa.pencom.com	          steve.potter@amp.com
Home: 717-540-0131	Pager: 1-800-759-8888, 547-9561     Work: 717-986-5401
                Systems Administation: It's a Kind of Magic
------- end of forwarded message -------
-- 
Tom Christiansen
tchrist@wizards.com
Netrep for the MoxPerl WWW Database at http://perl.com/deckmaster/

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Thu Oct 12 20:26:05 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Perl 4 (fwd)
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc
In-Reply-To: <199510122016.OAA17179@mox.perl.com>
References: <10OCT199515044027@jane.uh.edu>
	<SPP.95Oct10213537@icarus.sunfire.com>
	<199510122016.OAA17179@mox.perl.com>
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tchrist:
 > BTW: Whoever is handling the CPAN:  I think the source tree needs some
 > work.  I was wondering why so many questions were popping up about 5.001
 > (standard), and now I see why.  We really should have a full 5.001m
 > distribution available, not just 5.001 and all the patches.

Uh?

CPAN/src:
total 58
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1110 Oct  7 17:21 README
drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jul 30 07:18 aux
drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jun 20 10:51 byacc
drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jun 17 15:26 dist
drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jun  8 15:21 jperl
drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Oct  9 16:01 latest
drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jun 17 14:56 misc
drwxr-xr-x   4 jhi      ftp          8192 Sep 14 12:27 patches
CPAN/src/README:
[blah blah]
  aux           Berkeley DB and GDBM (GNU DBM) sources for use with
                the Perl 5 database extensions
  byacc         Berkeley Yacc that can output grammars in Perl 4
  misc          miscellanea
  dist          the official (made by Larry Wall) source distribution of Perl.
                For Perl 5 the latest release is 5.001, for Perl 4
                the latest release is 4.036 (never mind the 4.036-mcon
                archive unless you are into Perl archaeology).
  jperl         sources for an old (4.019) port of Perl which understands
                Japanese data, documentation in CPAN/doc/old/texinfo-j/
  latest        the latest release: the latest official release from
                the dist subdirectory with the latest perl5-porters
                patches applied, the so-called 'official unofficial'
                release
  patches       various patches for the official releases: the in-progress
                directory contains patches in very experimental stages;
                the perl5-porters contains more thoroughly tested patches
                contributed by the perl5-porters mailing list crew
CPAN/src/dist:
total 4912
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        266372 Oct  7  1993 perl-4.036-mcon.tar.gz
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        668608 Feb  1  1994 perl-4.036.tar.gz
-r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp       1012832 Oct 17  1994 perl5.000.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp       1130765 Mar 13  1995 perl5.001.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp       1000058 Aug 26  1994 perl5a12h.tar.gz
-rwxr-xr-x   1 jhi      ftp        924479 Oct  7  1994 perl5b3h.tar.gz
CPAN/src/latest:
total 2280
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp       1160345 Jun  6 16:16 perl5.001l.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp       1163858 Jul  2 15:50 perl5.001m.tar.gz
CPAN/src/patches:
total 16
drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Sep 15 00:59 in-progress
drwxr-xr-x   6 jhi      ftp          8192 Jun  8 11:27 perl5-porters

What is the problem in here? Should I <BLINK>the latest</BLINK> release? :-?

++jhi;

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Thu Oct 12 20:42:51 1995
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To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Perl 4 (fwd) 
In-Reply-To: Jarkko Hietaniemi's article in comp.lang.perl.misc <199510122026.WAA13298@alpha.hut.fi> of Thu, 12 Oct 95 22:26:05 +0200.
References: <10OCT199515044027@jane.uh.edu> <SPP.95Oct10213537@icarus.sunfire.com> <199510122016.OAA17179@mox.perl.com> <199510122026.WAA13298@alpha.hut.fi> 
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 14:42:51 MDT
Message-Id: <17839.813530571@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

i was just forwarding spp's msg.

don't shoot the messenger.

--tom

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Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
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Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Perl 4 (fwd) 
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	<SPP.95Oct10213537@icarus.sunfire.com>
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Tom Christiansen writes:
 > i was just forwarding spp's msg.
 > 
 > don't shoot the messenger.
 > 
 > --tom

Ra-ta-ta-ta-ta! {clink clink clink} {new cartridge} Ra-ta-ta- {Oh, you
mean are the messenger? Um, so sorry.}

++jhi;

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Thu Oct 12 23:44:47 1995
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To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: CPAN && perl.com 
In-Reply-To: Andreas Koenig's message <199510120912.KAA18538@anna.mind.de> of Thu, 12 Oct 95 10:12:24 BST.
References: <199510120912.KAA18538@anna.mind.de> 
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 95 17:44:47 MDT
Message-Id: <22005.813541487@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

> I fetched your INDEX file yesterday, and I must say, it's currently
> rather difficult to mirror your own work into CPAN. May I suggest you
> to build a directory that contains only your own work, so that I can
> mirror a single directory to CPAN/authors/id/TOMC?

Yes, that's a good idea.  I'm sorry about that.  Probably it shall 
wait till I return from this little teaching spree to get well
re-orgged.

> It is ok, if this directory is made up of symlinks only. Something like

hm... maybe.  i have to think more about the symlink stufff, but
i imagine you're right.

>     GetDate-X.X.shar.gz    -> perl/ext/GetDate.shar.gz

there are a couple of those in existence, plus i have a bug in 
that i can't link calling it getdate cause silly solaris has one but it's
the wrong version.  i also have a new version from steve belovin somewhere
to use.  it shoudl really be std,ized.

>     HTML-Simple-X.X.pm     -> perl/ext/CGI/lib-perl5/HTML/Simple.pm

this is rpetty grody, but until i am happy with the full html stuff
i will probably keep using it.  i will make it into a versionized thing
with a podfile when i come home -- sometime.  

>     Nice???      -> perl/scripts/ADVLABS/nice # modulelist has no Nice, you seem to have?

this is also embarssing because it is supposed to work even without
the PRIO stuff in the right files.  are there posix defines for it?
hm.. there aren't.

>     PDSC         -> perl/doc/PDSC/

this one you can count on.

>     SYS???       -> ????                      # Can't find it!!!

this is in SYS::classes.shar.gz, and while the UI won't change, 
i'lm changing it into using a hash inside.  i'll versionize it then, but i
do think it will be in std 5.002 (LARRY?) at that time, since i think
saying stat($something)->nlink or getpwnam("me")->dir should be
for everyone in the std release.

>     scripts      -> perl/scripts/myown/

those are just my own little hacks.

>     versus       -> perl/versus/

yes, i expect that's a keeper.

> I think, with the recent changes to the CPAN trees we have turned the
> Module List Server into a true

>     Perl Authors Upload Server or
>     CPAN Lounge or
>     Open CPAN

> Authors are found with their full name in the authors/ directory which
> is a symlink to their userid

>     CPAN/authors/Tom_Christiansen  -> id/TOMC/

oh, that's nice.  thanks.

> If in addition to the above you could decide to mirror CPAN and get
> rid of your ext directory which currently misses many recent additions
> to CPAN you could do us all a great favor. If you then do your agrep
> work on top of it, many sites could offer the same service, because
> they all have the same directory structure, either on their own disk
> or somewhere near-by.

i do want an agrep and/or relational lookup.  i assume i'll 
need a new moddump from you by then, andreas.

> andreas

> (CC to packrats for those you wonder why TOMC/ directory is still
> empty and in case anybody has objections to my proposal)

i never object to other people doing work. :-)  [well, except
for ^STDOUT, that is. :-]

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Fri Oct 13 12:08:54 1995
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To: tchrist@mox.perl.com, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: Perl 4 (fwd)
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 13:08:54 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424
Message-Id: <9510131408.ac18730@relay-3.mail.demon.net>


> From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
> 
> tchrist:
>  > BTW: Whoever is handling the CPAN:  I think the source tree needs some
>  > work.  I was wondering why so many questions were popping up about 5.001
>  > (standard), and now I see why.  We really should have a full 5.001m
>  > distribution available, not just 5.001 and all the patches.
> 
> Uh?
> 
> CPAN/src:
> total 58
> -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1110 Oct  7 17:21 README
> drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jul 30 07:18 aux
> drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jun 20 10:51 byacc
> drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jun 17 15:26 dist
> drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jun  8 15:21 jperl
> drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Oct  9 16:01 latest
> drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jun 17 14:56 misc
> drwxr-xr-x   4 jhi      ftp          8192 Sep 14 12:27 patches
> CPAN/src/README:
> [blah blah]
>   aux           Berkeley DB and GDBM (GNU DBM) sources for use with
>                 the Perl 5 database extensions
>   byacc         Berkeley Yacc that can output grammars in Perl 4
>   misc          miscellanea
>   dist          the official (made by Larry Wall) source distribution of Perl.
>                 For Perl 5 the latest release is 5.001, for Perl 4
>                 the latest release is 4.036 (never mind the 4.036-mcon
>                 archive unless you are into Perl archaeology).
>   jperl         sources for an old (4.019) port of Perl which understands
>                 Japanese data, documentation in CPAN/doc/old/texinfo-j/
>   latest        the latest release: the latest official release from
>                 the dist subdirectory with the latest perl5-porters
>                 patches applied, the so-called 'official unofficial'
>                 release
>   patches       various patches for the official releases: the in-progress
>                 directory contains patches in very experimental stages;
>                 the perl5-porters contains more thoroughly tested patches
>                 contributed by the perl5-porters mailing list crew
> CPAN/src/dist:
> total 4912
> -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        266372 Oct  7  1993 perl-4.036-mcon.tar.gz
> -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        668608 Feb  1  1994 perl-4.036.tar.gz
> -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp       1012832 Oct 17  1994 perl5.000.tar.gz
> -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp       1130765 Mar 13  1995 perl5.001.tar.gz
> -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp       1000058 Aug 26  1994 perl5a12h.tar.gz
> -rwxr-xr-x   1 jhi      ftp        924479 Oct  7  1994 perl5b3h.tar.gz

I think dist should be a mirror of ftp.netlabs.com:/pub/outgoing/4.0 and 5.0
and be renamed to distrib (or simply src/4.0/ and src/5.0/). Larry's 5.0
directory has a 5.001m.tar.gz in it.

Separating perl4 & perl5 makes sence. jperl should probably be renamed jperl4.

Also I can't quite see the relationship between aux, byacc and misc.
I'd move aux and byacc under misc.

> What is the problem in here? Should I <BLINK>the latest</BLINK> release? :-?
>
Reorder the README. The current ordering is very odd.

Personally I'd go for

  CPAN/src/
           5.0
           4.0
           latest
           patches
           misc

in the directory and README with jperl either under 4.0 or misc.
 
> ++jhi;
>
Tim. 

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Fri Oct 13 12:08:54 1995
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To: tchrist@mox.perl.com, Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Subject: Re: Perl 4 (fwd)
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Date: Fri, 13 Oct 1995 13:08:54 +0100
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Sender: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
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> From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
> 
> tchrist:
>  > BTW: Whoever is handling the CPAN:  I think the source tree needs some
>  > work.  I was wondering why so many questions were popping up about 5.001
>  > (standard), and now I see why.  We really should have a full 5.001m
>  > distribution available, not just 5.001 and all the patches.
> 
> Uh?
> 
> CPAN/src:
> total 58
> -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp          1110 Oct  7 17:21 README
> drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jul 30 07:18 aux
> drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jun 20 10:51 byacc
> drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jun 17 15:26 dist
> drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jun  8 15:21 jperl
> drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Oct  9 16:01 latest
> drwxr-xr-x   2 jhi      ftp          8192 Jun 17 14:56 misc
> drwxr-xr-x   4 jhi      ftp          8192 Sep 14 12:27 patches
> CPAN/src/README:
> [blah blah]
>   aux           Berkeley DB and GDBM (GNU DBM) sources for use with
>                 the Perl 5 database extensions
>   byacc         Berkeley Yacc that can output grammars in Perl 4
>   misc          miscellanea
>   dist          the official (made by Larry Wall) source distribution of Perl.
>                 For Perl 5 the latest release is 5.001, for Perl 4
>                 the latest release is 4.036 (never mind the 4.036-mcon
>                 archive unless you are into Perl archaeology).
>   jperl         sources for an old (4.019) port of Perl which understands
>                 Japanese data, documentation in CPAN/doc/old/texinfo-j/
>   latest        the latest release: the latest official release from
>                 the dist subdirectory with the latest perl5-porters
>                 patches applied, the so-called 'official unofficial'
>                 release
>   patches       various patches for the official releases: the in-progress
>                 directory contains patches in very experimental stages;
>                 the perl5-porters contains more thoroughly tested patches
>                 contributed by the perl5-porters mailing list crew
> CPAN/src/dist:
> total 4912
> -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        266372 Oct  7  1993 perl-4.036-mcon.tar.gz
> -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        668608 Feb  1  1994 perl-4.036.tar.gz
> -r--r--r--   1 jhi      ftp       1012832 Oct 17  1994 perl5.000.tar.gz
> -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp       1130765 Mar 13  1995 perl5.001.tar.gz
> -rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp       1000058 Aug 26  1994 perl5a12h.tar.gz
> -rwxr-xr-x   1 jhi      ftp        924479 Oct  7  1994 perl5b3h.tar.gz

I think dist should be a mirror of ftp.netlabs.com:/pub/outgoing/4.0 and 5.0
and be renamed to distrib (or simply src/4.0/ and src/5.0/). Larry's 5.0
directory has a 5.001m.tar.gz in it.

Separating perl4 & perl5 makes sence. jperl should probably be renamed jperl4.

Also I can't quite see the relationship between aux, byacc and misc.
I'd move aux and byacc under misc.

> What is the problem in here? Should I <BLINK>the latest</BLINK> release? :-?
>
Reorder the README. The current ordering is very odd.

Personally I'd go for

  CPAN/src/
           5.0
           4.0
           latest
           patches
           misc

in the directory and README with jperl either under 4.0 or misc.
 
> ++jhi;
>
Tim. 

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Fri Oct 13 17:03:40 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: tchrist@mox.perl.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Perl 4 (fwd)
In-Reply-To: <9510131408.ac18730@relay-3.mail.demon.net>
References: <9510131408.ac18730@relay-3.mail.demon.net>
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit


Tim Bunce:
 > I think dist should be a mirror of ftp.netlabs.com:/pub/outgoing/4.0 and 5.0
 > and be renamed to distrib (or simply src/4.0/ and src/5.0/). Larry's 5.0
 > directory has a 5.001m.tar.gz in it.
 > 
 > Separating perl4 & perl5 makes sence. jperl should probably be renamed jperl4.
 > 
 > Also I can't quite see the relationship between aux, byacc and misc.
 > I'd move aux and byacc under misc.

aux is possibly needed for perl (auxiliary), byacc is byacc, misc is misc.
But if only I can follow that, oh well, I better change this.

 > Reorder the README. The current ordering is very odd.

Alphabetical, I believe it is called. :-) I admit that not necessarily
the most informative one.

 > Personally I'd go for
 > 
 >   CPAN/src/
 >            5.0
 >            4.0
 >            latest
 >            patches
 >            misc
 > 

Implemented like this except that I moved patches under 5.0/.
Appropriate READMEs in 4.0, 5.0, and misc. And latest/ turned
into a symlink called latest.tar.gz.

*** BTW: there _are_ patches for 4.036, for example in OSF/1^H^H^H^HDigital
*** UNIX time_t != long and that needs a tiny patch. If you folks have
*** such patches, I can make a 4.0/patches/. These patches are naturally not
*** much coordinated but hey, someone might use/need them.

 > in the directory and README with jperl either under 4.0 or misc.

jperl as 4.0/jperl/.

 > > ++jhi;
 > >
 > Tim. 

++jhi;

From k@anna.mind.de Sun Oct 15 08:53:23 1995
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	 id JAA12453; Sun, 15 Oct 1995 09:53:23 +0100
Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 09:53:23 +0100
Message-Id: <199510150853.JAA12453@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Jarkko Hietaniemi <Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi>
Cc: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: pumpkin for CPAN announcement

Jarkko,

am I right when I suppose, that you have the pumpkin? As I told you
before, I like your write better than mine. And isn't it time?

>From my perspective the authors/ and modules/ trees are stable, and
since yesterday the modules/by-* symlink trees are up-to-date and
rather efficiently implemented. There are no changes to be expected
for a while. Unless you see deficiencies, of course.

Let me know, if you need any additional information. Or let Tim know,
if you don't want the pumpkin :)

BTW, pasteur's CPAN address is again wrong in both the MIRRORED.BY and
CPAN documents. pasteur's CPAN really is in

    ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/computing/unix/perl/CPAN

not

    ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/computing/unix/perl/

andreas

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Sun Oct 15 12:47:32 1995
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Date: Sun, 15 Oct 1995 14:47:32 +0200
Message-Id: <199510151247.OAA12711@alpha.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
Cc: Jarkko Hietaniemi <Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi>,
        Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: pumpkin for CPAN announcement
In-Reply-To: <199510150853.JAA12453@anna.mind.de>
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Andreas Koenig writes:
 > Jarkko,
 > 
 > am I right when I suppose, that you have the pumpkin? As I told you
 > before, I like your write better than mine. And isn't it time?

I guess so.

 > >From my perspective the authors/ and modules/ trees are stable, and
 > since yesterday the modules/by-* symlink trees are up-to-date and
 > rather efficiently implemented. There are no changes to be expected
 > for a while. Unless you see deficiencies, of course.

Nothing glaringly wrong.

 > Let me know, if you need any additional information. Or let Tim know,
 > if you don't want the pumpkin :)
 > 
 > BTW, pasteur's CPAN address is again wrong in both the MIRRORED.BY and
 > CPAN documents. pasteur's CPAN really is in
 > 
 >     ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/computing/unix/perl/CPAN

Will see to it.

 > not
 > 
 >     ftp://ftp.pasteur.fr/pub/computing/unix/perl/

Umm, at least one thing keeps me from writing the c.l.p.a CPAN fanfare
right now: ftp.funet.fi is responding...I must find out what has happened
first thing Monday morning.

 > andreas

++jhi;

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Mon Oct 16 08:32:58 1995
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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:32:58 +0200
Message-Id: <199510160832.KAA01406@dol-guldur.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com, k@anna.mind.de, wjm@metronet.com,
        tchrist@cs.colorado.edu, cpan-mirrors@nic.funet.fi
Subject: CPAN administrivia: incoming/
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
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CPAN is nearing its Official announcement (which I intend to do in c.l.p.a).
One thing needs to be decided, however. If we go public (well, we are even
now completely in the open but you know what I mean...) we need a way for
people to upload stuff, you know, the incoming/.

First of all: all you ftp admins mirroring CPAN: be certain NOT to mirror
the funet incoming/. As usual incoming/ needs to be the bin for the
yet-to-be-sorted stuff, not yet for public consumption. And all you
ftp admins are doing 'exact' aka delete-old-if-not-found-at-the-mirror-source
mirrors? Just checking...if you are not, your mirrors are looking right
now really messy and I mean _really_ messy as CPAN has been changing
quite a lot. Doing exact mirrors keeps your copy clean and tidy while
I can freely move things around at the master site.

Secondly: I am quite tempted to delegate the incoming/ responsibility
at least partially (what? you are not surprised? :-). What I am thinking
is this:

	- the Modules Server in franz takes care of the authors/ and
	  modules/by-* stuff -- there are beautifully working
	  (modulo the missing delete functionality) methods for
	  people to contribute stuff. Andreas?

	- the scripts/ comes from metronet. I would like to keep
          it that way meaning also that any contributions to scripts/
	  should go via metronet. Bill? (then there is the question
	  whether new contributions, also scripts in addition to
	  modules/extensions, should go to franz? Andreas?)

	- the doc/ directory is for large part coming from perl.com
	  and thusly I would like to see Tom sorting that stuff out.
	  Tom?

All the rest of CPAN I think I can handle.

++jhi;

From k@anna.mind.de Mon Oct 16 09:34:53 1995
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	 id KAA21537; Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:34:53 +0100
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:34:53 +0100
Message-Id: <199510160934.KAA21537@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, k@anna.mind.de, wjm@metronet.com,
        tchrist@cs.colorado.edu, cpan-mirrors@nic.funet.fi
In-Reply-To: <199510160832.KAA01406@dol-guldur.hut.fi> (message from Jarkko
	Hietaniemi on Mon, 16 Oct 1995 10:32:58 +0200)
Subject: Re: CPAN administrivia: incoming/
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "jhi" == Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi> writes:

jhi> Secondly: I am quite tempted to delegate the incoming/ responsibility
jhi> at least partially (what? you are not surprised? :-). What I am thinking
jhi> is this:

jhi> - the Modules Server in franz takes care of the authors/ and
jhi> modules/by-* stuff -- there are beautifully working
jhi> (modulo the missing delete functionality) methods for
jhi> people to contribute stuff. Andreas?


Yes, you can leave authors/ and modules/by-* to me.

I'm tempted to call franz the PAUSE, the Perl Authors Upload SErver,
indicating, that each author has deserved some break after having
coded bravely for that many hours. Calling it UPLOAD server should
also make clear, that franz is not a download server given its weak
connection. Calling it _Authors_ server will encourage authors of
non-modules to use it as the natural place for their work.

The BIG advantage of the upload scripts is, that the authors need not
physically transfer to franz but to any publicly available URL. So
what some authors might appreciate, would be that they can upload to
their nearest site instead of directly to franz. If all of the CPAN
sites (or at least a stable subset) could have a readable incoming
directory, franz would fetch the stuff with unlimited patience. The
only thing left for the author is to fill in the form on franz. (My
script tries for 24 hours to fetch the stuff, and then I get mail,
that something's blown)

So my offer is: franz takes responsibility for uploading
anything. YOUR incoming directories can be configured to delete
files that are there after, say, 3-7 days.


jhi> - the scripts/ comes from metronet. I would like to keep
jhi> it that way meaning also that any contributions to scripts/
jhi> should go via metronet. Bill? (then there is the question
jhi> whether new contributions, also scripts in addition to
jhi> modules/extensions, should go to franz? Andreas?)


As PAUSE franz can upload docu and scripts as well. The problem is for
me, that I cannot add any value for that. Modules/by-* trees did and
will cost me a lot of work. No room left for doing the same for
scripts and docs and patches.


jhi> - the doc/ directory is for large part coming from perl.com
jhi> and thusly I would like to see Tom sorting that stuff out.
jhi> Tom?


Tom is on the road. He has promised to sort things out according to
some suggestions I made a few days ago (CC was to packrats). We have
to decide, if I should mirror then into authors/id/TOMC or if you
should mirror to somewhere else or both or half/half. I don't have an
own opinion on that :)


jhi> All the rest of CPAN I think I can handle.


Great!


jhi> ++jhi;

andreas

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Mon Oct 16 10:30:37 1995
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Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 12:30:37 +0200
Message-Id: <199510161030.MAA04029@dol-guldur.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: malcolm@thokk.demon.co.uk
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, cpan-mirrors@nic.funet.fi
Subject: [resending...]
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
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(I had your email message wrong in cpan-mirrors@ftp.funet.fi...)

[message 1]

From: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi

CPAN is nearing its Official announcement (which I intend to do in c.l.p.a).
One thing needs to be decided, however. If we go public (well, we are even
now completely in the open but you know what I mean...) we need a way for
people to upload stuff, you know, the incoming/.

First of all: all you ftp admins mirroring CPAN: be certain NOT to mirror
the funet incoming/. As usual incoming/ needs to be the bin for the
yet-to-be-sorted stuff, not yet for public consumption. And all you
ftp admins are doing 'exact' aka delete-old-if-not-found-at-the-mirror-source
mirrors? Just checking...if you are not, your mirrors are looking right
now really messy and I mean _really_ messy as CPAN has been changing
quite a lot. Doing exact mirrors keeps your copy clean and tidy while
I can freely move things around at the master site.

Secondly: I am quite tempted to delegate the incoming/ responsibility
at least partially (what? you are not surprised? :-). What I am thinking
is this:

        - the Modules Server in franz takes care of the authors/ and
          modules/by-* stuff -- there are beautifully working
          (modulo the missing delete functionality) methods for
          people to contribute stuff. Andreas?

        - the scripts/ comes from metronet. I would like to keep
          it that way meaning also that any contributions to scripts/
          should go via metronet. Bill? (then there is the question
          whether new contributions, also scripts in addition to
          modules/extensions, should go to franz? Andreas?)

        - the doc/ directory is for large part coming from perl.com
          and thusly I would like to see Tom sorting that stuff out.
          Tom?

All the rest of CPAN I think I can handle.

++jhi;

[message 2]

From: k@anna.mind.de

>>>>> "jhi" == Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi> writes:

jhi> Secondly: I am quite tempted to delegate the incoming/ responsibility
jhi> at least partially (what? you are not surprised? :-). What I am thinking
jhi> is this:

jhi> - the Modules Server in franz takes care of the authors/ and
jhi> modules/by-* stuff -- there are beautifully working
jhi> (modulo the missing delete functionality) methods for
jhi> people to contribute stuff. Andreas?

Yes, you can leave authors/ and modules/by-* to me.

I'm tempted to call franz the PAUSE, the Perl Authors Upload SErver,
indicating, that each author has deserved some break after having
coded bravely for that many hours. Calling it UPLOAD server should
also make clear, that franz is not a download server given its weak
connection. Calling it _Authors_ server will encourage authors of
non-modules to use it as the natural place for their work.

The BIG advantage of the upload scripts is, that the authors need not
physically transfer to franz but to any publicly available URL. So
what some authors might appreciate, would be that they can upload to
their nearest site instead of directly to franz. If all of the CPAN
sites (or at least a stable subset) could have a readable incoming
directory, franz would fetch the stuff with unlimited patience. The
only thing left for the author is to fill in the form on franz. (My
script tries for 24 hours to fetch the stuff, and then I get mail,
that something's blown)

So my offer is: franz takes responsibility for uploading
anything. YOUR incoming directories can be configured to delete
files that are there after, say, 3-7 days.

jhi> - the scripts/ comes from metronet. I would like to keep
jhi> it that way meaning also that any contributions to scripts/
jhi> should go via metronet. Bill? (then there is the question
jhi> whether new contributions, also scripts in addition to
jhi> modules/extensions, should go to franz? Andreas?)

As PAUSE franz can upload docu and scripts as well. The problem is for
me, that I cannot add any value for that. Modules/by-* trees did and
will cost me a lot of work. No room left for doing the same for
scripts and docs and patches.

jhi> - the doc/ directory is for large part coming from perl.com
jhi> and thusly I would like to see Tom sorting that stuff out.
jhi> Tom?

Tom is on the road. He has promised to sort things out according to
some suggestions I made a few days ago (CC was to packrats). We have
to decide, if I should mirror then into authors/id/TOMC or if you
should mirror to somewhere else or both or half/half. I don't have an
own opinion on that :)

jhi> All the rest of CPAN I think I can handle.

Great!

jhi> ++jhi;

andreas

++jhi;

From kjahds@kjahds.com Mon Oct 16 16:31:16 1995
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	  Mon, 16 Oct 95 12:31 EDT
Date: Mon, 16 Oct 1995 12:31:16 -0400 (EDT)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi, perl-packrats@metronet.com, k@anna.mind.de,
        wjm@metronet.com, tchrist@cs.colorado.edu, cpan-mirrors@nic.funet.fi
Subject: Re: CPAN administrivia: incoming/
In-Reply-To: <199510160934.KAA21537@anna.mind.de>
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.951016122941.573H-100000@kjahds.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Mon, 16 Oct 1995, Andreas Koenig wrote:

> I'm tempted to call franz the PAUSE, the Perl Authors Upload SErver,
> indicating, that each author has deserved some break after having
> coded bravely for that many hours. Calling it UPLOAD server should
> also make clear, that franz is not a download server given its weak
> connection. Calling it _Authors_ server will encourage authors of
> non-modules to use it as the natural place for their work.

Here's another bit of random speculation: how about having 
people include an "ANNOUNCE" file in their modules, and once a module has 
been on CPAN for some while, automatically mailing it to c.o.l.a?

Yes, there are a number of problems with the idea, but it's perhaps 
something to think about.

> andreas

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From wmiddlet@mv.us.adobe.com Mon Nov  6 23:21:54 1995
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From: wmiddlet@mv.us.adobe.com (Bill Middleton)
Message-Id: <9511062321.AA00445@ducks.mv.us.adobe.com>
Subject: Bad FAQ
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Mon, 6 Nov 1995 15:21:54 -0800 (PST)
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Did my message about the bad faq at UFL get thru on
Saturday?  Don't mean to harangue on this, just cking
since it's still not fixed.

Thanks,

Bill

From neilb@brandy.khoros.unm.edu Thu Nov  9 22:31:15 1995
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Message-Id: <9511092231.AA04253@brandy.khoros.unm.edu>
From: neilb@khoral.com (Neil Bowers)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 15:31:15 MST
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: perl5-porters@nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: perl related mailing lists
Reply-To: neilb@khoral.com
Organization: Khoral Research, Inc.

Hi,

I'm finally getting around to updating the MetaFAQ, and am adding a section
on perl related mailing lists. The FAQ doesn't have a section on this,
on a quick scan anyway.

Can anyone add to the following lists, or provide URLs where appropriate?

	perl5-porters@nicoh.com
		For discussion of perl5 design and porting issues.
		Subscribe by emailing majordomo@nicoh.com with
			subscribe perl5-porters fred@foobar.com
		URL?

	ntperl@mail.hip.com
		This list is used to discuss issues involving Windows NT
		and Perl 5.  Subscribe by emailing Majordomo@mail.hip.com with
			subscribe ntperl fred@foobar.com
		URL?

	perl-packrats@metronet.com
		Discussion related to archiving of perl materials.
		Subscribe by?
		URL?

I seem to remember mention of a makemaker mailing list. Any others?

thanks,
neilb

From kjahds@kjahds.com Fri Nov 10 01:35:11 1995
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Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:35:11 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: "J-G Compression Technology"
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.951109202954.2398I-100000@kjahds.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
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Sorry about sending this stuff to the list, but could someone please
explain to me what these mail headers are saying? They don't seem to make
much sense, given that the message appears to have no references to
packrats in the routing headers, but nonetheless went through packrats. 
Did anyone else get that? (I suspect that's a silly question.)

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


---------- Forwarded message ----------
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X-Sender: techsupport@jgc.com (Unverified)
X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
To: Techsupport@jgc.com
From: Publisher Program <Techsupport@jgc.com>
Subject: J-G Compression Technology
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Message-Id: <95Nov9.143025pst.21824@mail.jgc.com>
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:03:59 -0800



I saw your address on a web page recently, and thought that you might be
interested in our new image and speech compression.  Our "ART" compression
produces files that average 3 times smaller than GIFs and JPEGs.  We have a
plug-in for Netscape 2.0 coming out, and we're already built into the AOL,
GNN, Teachersoft and Frontier browsers.  If you're interested, please check
out our web site for free trial software.

-----------------------------------------
Geoff LeBlond
Vice President, Licensing
Johnson-Grace Company
(714)759-0700 voice, (714)729-4643 fax 
web site:  http://www.jgc.com
-----------------------------------------


From mrg@mame.mu.OZ.AU Fri Nov 10 02:07:45 1995
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  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:05:24 -0600
Return-Path: <mrg@mame.mu.OZ.AU>
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Message-Id: <199511100207.NAA26791@dynamo.mame.mu.OZ.AU>
To: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: "J-G Compression Technology" 
In-Reply-To: Your message of "Thu, 09 Nov 1995 20:35:11 CDT."
             <Pine.LNX.3.91.951109202954.2398I-100000@kjahds.com> 
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 13:07:45 +1100
From: matthew green <mrg@mame.mu.OZ.AU>


in SMTP there are four different types of addresses.  there are:

 o  envelope sender
 o  envelope receiver
 o  header sender
 o  header receiver

the envelope sender/receiver's are the parts of the message that are
_NOT_ in the message proper, but, extra data attached while the message
is being delivered.  this is out mailing lists work ... you aren't not
meantioned in the headers of the message, but, you are an envelope
receiver.  basically, it's like perl-packrats is a subscriber to the
"techsupport@jgc.com" mailing list.

btw, the envelope sender is what we see as the `Return-Path:' or the
`From ' part of the mail -- this is the address bounces are sent to,
etc.  mailing lists have these set to list-owner (normally).

.mrg.

   
   Sorry about sending this stuff to the list, but could someone please
   explain to me what these mail headers are saying? They don't seem to make
   much sense, given that the message appears to have no references to
   packrats in the routing headers, but nonetheless went through packrats. 
   Did anyone else get that? (I suspect that's a silly question.)
   
   --
   Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)
   
   
   ---------- Forwarded message ----------
   >From kjahds  Thu Nov  9 20:25:07 1995
   Return-Path: <POPclient>
   Received: by kjahds.com (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tDiDL-0000XMC;
   	  Thu, 9 Nov 95 20:25 EST
   Received: by tigger.jvnc.net id AA23584
     (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kjahds); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:26:05 -0500
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     (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for kjahds@kjahds.com); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 20:26:00 -0500
   Received: from jgc.com by metronet.com with SMTP id AA12119
     (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 19:06:30 -0600
   Received: from mail.jgc.com ([134.24.2.2]) by mail.jgc.com with SMTP id <21824>; Thu, 9 Nov 1995 14:30:25 -0800
   X-Sender: techsupport@jgc.com (Unverified)
   X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 2.1.1
   Mime-Version: 1.0
   Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
   To: Techsupport@jgc.com
   From: Publisher Program <Techsupport@jgc.com>
   Subject: J-G Compression Technology
   Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
   Message-Id: <95Nov9.143025pst.21824@mail.jgc.com>
   Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 10:03:59 -0800
   
   
   
   I saw your address on a web page recently, and thought that you might be
   interested in our new image and speech compression.  Our "ART" compression
   produces files that average 3 times smaller than GIFs and JPEGs.  We have a
   plug-in for Netscape 2.0 coming out, and we're already built into the AOL,
   GNN, Teachersoft and Frontier browsers.  If you're interested, please check
   out our web site for free trial software.
   
   -----------------------------------------
   Geoff LeBlond
   Vice President, Licensing
   Johnson-Grace Company
   (714)759-0700 voice, (714)729-4643 fax 
   web site:  http://www.jgc.com
   -----------------------------------------
   

From wjm  Thu Nov  9 21:16:31 1995
Received: by metronet.com id AA05728
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for perl-packrats); Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:16:11 -0600
Return-Path: <wjm>
Message-Id: <199511100316.AA05728@metronet.com>
From: wjm@metronet.com (Bill Middleton)
Date: Thu, 9 Nov 1995 21:16:08 -0600
In-Reply-To: matthew green <mrg@mame.mu.OZ.AU>
       "Re: "J-G Compression Technology"" (Nov 10,  1:07pm)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: matthew green <mrg@mame.mu.OZ.AU>
Subject: Re: "J-G Compression Technology"
Cc: perl-packrats


I suspect that someone Bcc'd every darn list they could find.

uuencode thanks < /hp-ux | mailx -s "Thanks for junk mail!" Techsupport@jgc.com

:-)

They're not subscribed to the perl-packrats.

Bill


From kjahds@kjahds.com Fri Nov 10 13:09:01 1995
Received: from kjahds.com (ringotty11.jvnc.net) by metronet.com with SMTP id AA02976
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Fri, 10 Nov 1995 07:18:32 -0600
Return-Path: <kjahds@kjahds.com>
Received: by kjahds.com (Linux Smail3.1.28.1 #1) id m0tDtCX-0000XMC;
	  Fri, 10 Nov 95 08:09 EST
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 08:09:01 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: matthew green <mrg@mame.mu.oz.au>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: "J-G Compression Technology" 
In-Reply-To: <199511100207.NAA26791@dynamo.mame.mu.OZ.AU>
Message-Id: <Pine.LNX.3.91.951110080744.194A-100000@kjahds.com>
Mime-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII

On Fri, 10 Nov 1995, matthew green wrote:

> 
> in SMTP there are four different types of addresses.  there are:
> 
>  o  envelope sender
>  o  envelope receiver
>  o  header sender
>  o  header receiver
>...

Thanks for that clear explanation. Now I am just wondering why "JGC" 
fired this off to packrats, and how many other list-servers they hit.

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Fri Nov 10 12:40:30 1995
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          10 Nov 95 15:37 GMT
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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:40:30 +0000
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Message-Id: <9511101240.AA14291@toad>
To: perl5-porters@nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com, neilb@khoral.com
Subject: Re: perl related mailing lists
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 1685
Organisation: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424


> From: neilb@khoral.com (Neil Bowers)
> 
> Hi,
> 
> I'm finally getting around to updating the MetaFAQ, and am adding a section
> on perl related mailing lists. The FAQ doesn't have a section on this,
> on a quick scan anyway.
> 
> Can anyone add to the following lists, or provide URLs where appropriate?
> 
> 	perl5-porters@nicoh.com
> 		For discussion of perl5 design and porting issues.
> 		Subscribe by emailing majordomo@nicoh.com with
> 			subscribe perl5-porters fred@foobar.com
> 		URL?
> 
> 	ntperl@mail.hip.com
> 		This list is used to discuss issues involving Windows NT
> 		and Perl 5.  Subscribe by emailing Majordomo@mail.hip.com with
> 			subscribe ntperl fred@foobar.com
> 		URL?
> 
> 	perl-packrats@metronet.com
> 		Discussion related to archiving of perl materials.
> 		Subscribe by?
> 		URL?
> 
> I seem to remember mention of a makemaker mailing list. Any others?

Several mailing lists are in the Module List:

  DBPRL  The DBperl mailing lists, see http://www.fugue.com/dbi 
         Mail to dbi-*-REQUEST@fugue.com with body "subscribe"   
         Where * is announce, users or dev (for developers only). 

  LWWWP  The libwww-perl mailing list
         Mail to libwww-perl-REQUEST@ics.uci.edu with body "subscribe"

  MCPL   The MacPerl mailing list
         Mail to mac-perl-request@iis.ee.ethz.ch with body "subscribe"

  MMML   The MakeMaker mailing list
         Mail to makemaker-REQUEST@franz.ww.tu-berlin.de with body "subscribe"

Your perl-packrats entry should explicitly mention CPAN.

You should also mention that perl5-porters is subscribed to ntperl so any
messages sent to ntperl are seen on perl5-porters (but not the other way round).

Tim.

From neilb@zen.khoros.unm.edu Fri Nov 10 18:38:46 1995
Received: from zen.khoros.unm.edu by metronet.com with SMTP id AA28085
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Fri, 10 Nov 1995 12:38:53 -0600
Return-Path: <neilb@zen.khoros.unm.edu>
Received: by zen.khoros.unm.edu (5.x/VISION/14Apr88/C)
	id AA04327; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:38:46 -0700
Posted-Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:38:46 MST
Message-Id: <9511101838.AA04327@zen.khoros.unm.edu>
From: neilb@khoral.com (Neil Bowers)
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 11:38:46 MST
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.5 10/14/92)
To: perl5-porters@nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Mailing Lists Related to Perl
Reply-To: neilb@khoral.com
Organization: Khoral Research, Inc.

Thanks to everyone who mailed info. Here's the latest list. Any more URLs?

neilb


  4.  Mailing Lists Related to Perl


     perl5-porters@nicoh.com
	For discussion of perl5	design and porting issues.  This list is
	currently subscribed to	ntperl,	and so gets all	messages from
	that list as well, but not vice	versa.	Subscribe by emailing
	majordomo@nicoh.com with

	subscribe perl5-porters	fred@foobar.com

        URL:  <http://www.nicoh.com/cgi-bin/lwgate/PERL5-PORTERS/>


     ntperl@mail.hip.com
	This list is used to discuss issues involving Windows NT and
	Perl 5.	 Subscribe by emailing Majordomo@mail.hip.com with

	subscribe ntperl fred@foobar.com


     perl-packrats@metronet.com
	Discussion related to archiving	of perl	materials, particularly
	the Comprehensive Perl Archive Network (CPAN).	Subscribe by
	emailing perl-packrats-request@metronet.com:

	subscribe perl-packrats	fred@foobar.com


     makemaker@franz.ww.TU-Berlin.DE
	Discussion related to using ExtUtils::MakeMaker.pm to build and
	install	perl5 extensions.  Subscribe by	emailing
	majordomo@franz.ww.TU-Berlin.DE	with

	subscribe makemaker fred@foobar.com


     ptk@wpi.edu
	People working on and with the Tk module.  Subscribe by	emailing
	ptk-request@wpi.edu with:

	subscribe ptk fred@foobar.com


     CGI-perl@webstorm.com
	Developers' mailing list for those working on perl CGI modules.
	This is	not a list for help in using perl for CGI programming.
	Subscribe by emailing CGI-perl-request@webstorm.com with:

	subscribe CGI-perl fred@foobar.com


     libwww-perl@ics.UCI.EDU
	People working on modules using	the WWW	protocols directly.
	Subscribe by emailing libwww-perl-request@ics.UCI.EDU with:

	subscribe libwww-perl fred@foobar.com


     The DBperl	mailing	lists
	The DBperl mailing lists, see http://www.fugue.com/dbi.	 Mail to
	dbi-*-REQUEST@fugue.com	with body "subscribe", where * is
	announce, users	or dev (for developers only).


     MacPerl mailing list
	Discussion related to Perl on Mac.  Mail to mac-perl-
	request@iis.ee.ethz.ch with body "subscribe"

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Fri Nov 10 18:54:12 1995
Received: from relay-4.mail.demon.net by metronet.com with SMTP id AA19946
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Return-Path: <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Received: from post.demon.co.uk by relay-4.mail.demon.net id sg.ad25435;
          10 Nov 95 23:27 GMT
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          10 Nov 95 23:27 GMT
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Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 18:54:12 +0000
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Message-Id: <9511101854.AA15100@toad>
To: perl5-porters@nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com, neilb@khoral.com
Subject: Re: Mailing Lists Related to Perl
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 549
Organization: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424


> From: Neil Bowers <neilb@khoral.com>
> 
>      The DBperl	mailing	lists
> 	The DBperl mailing lists, see http://www.fugue.com/dbi.	 Mail to
> 	dbi-*-REQUEST@fugue.com	with body "subscribe", where * is
> 	announce, users	or dev (for developers only).

This wasn't quite right. Sorry. Here's the new Module List entry:

+ DBIML  The DBI mailing lists: subscribe via http://www.fugue.com/dbi
         or mail to dbi-REQUEST@fugue.com and ask (the human, Ted Lemon) to
         subscribe you to one or more of dbi-announce, dbi-users, dbi-dev.

Tim.

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Sat Nov 11 05:58:27 1995
Received: from mox.perl.com (perl.com) by metronet.com with SMTP id AA26473
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:58:30 -0600
Return-Path: <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Received: (from tchrist@localhost) by mox.perl.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) id WAA12375; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:58:27 -0700
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 1995 22:58:27 -0700
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Message-Id: <199511110558.WAA12375@mox.perl.com>
To: cgi-perl@mox.perl.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: Finding Perl CGI modules (fwd)
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi
In-Reply-To: <47vujn$1dk@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
Organization: Perl Consulting and Training
Cc: 

Hm.... can we help this guy?

------- start of forwarded message -------
Path: csnews!boulder!agate!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!news.mathworks.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!news.msfc.nasa.gov!elroy.jpl.nasa.gov!lll-winken.llnl.gov!uwm.edu!math.ohio-state.edu!magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu!hmarvel
From: hmarvel@magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu (Howard P Marvel)
Newsgroups: comp.infosystems.www.authoring.cgi
Subject: Finding Perl CGI modules
Date: 10 Nov 1995 16:28:39 GMT
Organization: The Ohio State University
Lines: 31
Message-ID: <47vujn$1dk@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>
NNTP-Posting-Host: beauty.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu

My system does not permit me to follow up articles I read on my PC
newsreader, so please accept my apologies for starting a new topic.
This isn't really on the initial subject, File Uploading, though it
bears tangentially:

hedlund@best.com (M. Hedlund) wrote:


>The CGI::BasePlus Perl module (available at CPAN sites -- see
><URL:http://www.perl.com/>) handles file upload.  I believe CGI::Lite
does
>as well (also at CPAN).

When I saw this posting, I thought it would be a good idea to get the
files in question and look them over.  This caused me once again to
contract the dread beginneritis syndrome so constantly inveighed
against in this newsgroup.  This post is intended to be helpful to
those of you who. like me, would like to get the above files
expeditiously. DON'T go to the site above. The modules in the area
pointed to by the CGI tag are out of date. The CGI.pm modules don't
include BasePlus. The Lite modules are not to be found.  Don't go to
the faq for this purpose (DO read it, both new and old). The new 
resouces page points to perl4 modules, not the perl5 modules above.
You need to go to CPAN, where you need to look around. A lot. Here are
the relevant files. I tried ftp.delphi.com, since the Florida site
never seems to answer.

/pub/mirrors/packages/perl/CPAN/authors/id/SHGUN/CGI_Lite-1.4.pm.gz
/pub/mirrors/packages/perl/CPAN/authors/id/LDS/CGI-modules.2.7.tar.gz

To other beginners:  Sheesh. 
------- end of forwarded message -------

-- 
Tom Christiansen      Perl Consultant, Gamer, Hiker      tchrist@mox.perl.com

The hardest thing in the world to understand is the income tax.
                --Albert Einstein

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Sat Nov 11 06:47:47 1995
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Date: Sat, 11 Nov 1995 06:47:47 +0000
From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Message-Id: <9511110647.AA16291@toad>
To: cgi-perl@mox.perl.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Finding Perl CGI modules (fwd)
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
Content-Length: 1482
Organization: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424


> From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
> 
> Hm.... can we help this guy?

Er, it seems like most of his problems relate to the information on
www.perl.com -- Tom!

Tim.

> ------- start of forwarded message -------
> 
> >The CGI::BasePlus Perl module (available at CPAN sites -- see
> ><URL:http://www.perl.com/>) handles file upload.  I believe CGI::Lite
> does
> >as well (also at CPAN).
> 
> When I saw this posting, I thought it would be a good idea to get the
> files in question and look them over.  This caused me once again to
> contract the dread beginneritis syndrome so constantly inveighed
> against in this newsgroup.  This post is intended to be helpful to
> those of you who. like me, would like to get the above files
> expeditiously. DON'T go to the site above. The modules in the area
> pointed to by the CGI tag are out of date. The CGI.pm modules don't
> include BasePlus. The Lite modules are not to be found.  Don't go to
> the faq for this purpose (DO read it, both new and old). The new 
> resouces page points to perl4 modules, not the perl5 modules above.
> You need to go to CPAN, where you need to look around. A lot. Here are
> the relevant files. I tried ftp.delphi.com, since the Florida site
> never seems to answer.
> 
> /pub/mirrors/packages/perl/CPAN/authors/id/SHGUN/CGI_Lite-1.4.pm.gz
> /pub/mirrors/packages/perl/CPAN/authors/id/LDS/CGI-modules.2.7.tar.gz
> 
> To other beginners:  Sheesh. 
> ------- end of forwarded message -------

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Sat Nov 11 06:51:27 1995
Received: from mox.perl.com (perl.com) by metronet.com with SMTP id AA07732
  (5.67a/IDA1.5hp for <perl-packrats@metronet.com>); Sat, 11 Nov 1995 00:51:43 -0600
Return-Path: <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Received: from localhost.perl.com (Warm-Fuzzies@localhost.perl.com [127.0.0.1]) by mox.perl.com (8.6.12/8.6.12) with SMTP id XAA13337; Fri, 10 Nov 1995 23:51:29 -0700
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: cgi-perl@mox.perl.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com,
        tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Finding Perl CGI modules (fwd) 
In-Reply-To: Your message <9511110647.AA16291@toad> of Sat, 11 Nov 95 06:47:47 GMT.
References: <9511110647.AA16291@toad> 
Date: Fri, 10 Nov 95 23:51:27 MST
Message-Id: <13334.816072687@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

>> From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
>> 
>> Hm.... can we help this guy?

>Er, it seems like most of his problems relate to the information on
>www.perl.com -- Tom!

really???  i'm not a CPAN site.  i thought he
was saying that CPAN didn't have stuff right.  did 
i misread?  the url to my place is just a pointer 
to a pointer.

--tom

>> ------- start of forwarded message -------
>> 
>> >The CGI::BasePlus Perl module (available at CPAN sites -- see
>> ><URL:http://www.perl.com/>) handles file upload.  I believe CGI::Lite
>> does
>> >as well (also at CPAN).
>> 
>> When I saw this posting, I thought it would be a good idea to get the
>> files in question and look them over.  This caused me once again to
>> contract the dread beginneritis syndrome so constantly inveighed
>> against in this newsgroup.  This post is intended to be helpful to
>> those of you who. like me, would like to get the above files
>> expeditiously. DON'T go to the site above. The modules in the area
>> pointed to by the CGI tag are out of date. The CGI.pm modules don't
>> include BasePlus. The Lite modules are not to be found.  Don't go to
>> the faq for this purpose (DO read it, both new and old). The new 
>> resouces page points to perl4 modules, not the perl5 modules above.
>> You need to go to CPAN, where you need to look around. A lot. Here are
>> the relevant files. I tried ftp.delphi.com, since the Florida site
>> never seems to answer.
>> 
>> /pub/mirrors/packages/perl/CPAN/authors/id/SHGUN/CGI_Lite-1.4.pm.gz
>> /pub/mirrors/packages/perl/CPAN/authors/id/LDS/CGI-modules.2.7.tar.gz
>> 
>> To other beginners:  Sheesh. 
>> ------- end of forwarded message -------

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Sat Nov 11 07:19:52 1995
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From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Message-Id: <9511110719.AA16353@toad>
To: tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Finding Perl CGI modules (fwd)
Cc: cgi-perl@mox.perl.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
X-Sun-Charset: US-ASCII
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Organization: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424


> From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
> 
> >> From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
> >> 
> >> Hm.... can we help this guy?
> 
> >Er, it seems like most of his problems relate to the information on
> >www.perl.com -- Tom!
> 
> really???  i'm not a CPAN site.  i thought he
> was saying that CPAN didn't have stuff right.  did 
> i misread?  the url to my place is just a pointer 
> to a pointer.
> 
> --tom
> 
> >> ------- start of forwarded message -------
> >> 
> >> >The CGI::BasePlus Perl module (available at CPAN sites -- see
> >> ><URL:http://www.perl.com/>) handles file upload.  I believe CGI::Lite
> >> does
> >> >as well (also at CPAN).

> >> [...]. DON'T go to the site above.

So, don't go to the perl home site! Umm.

> >> The modules in the area pointed to by the CGI tag are out of date.

Where does your CGI tag point Tom?

>    The CGI.pm modules don't
> >> include BasePlus. The Lite modules are not to be found.  Don't go to
> >> the faq for this purpose (DO read it, both new and old). The new 
> >> resouces page points to perl4 modules, not the perl5 modules above.

I'm not quite sure what 'The new resouces page' page refers to.

Tim.

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Sat Nov 11 20:46:29 1995
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To: neilb@khoral.com
Cc: perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: Mailing Lists Related to Perl 
In-Reply-To: Neil Bowers's message <9511101838.AA04327@zen.khoros.unm.edu> of Fri, 10 Nov 95 11:38:46 MST.
References: <9511101838.AA04327@zen.khoros.unm.edu> 
Date: Sat, 11 Nov 95 13:46:29 MST
Message-Id: <27783.816122789@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

Nice.  I put it up at http://www.perl.com/perl/info/mailing-lists.html;
feel free to copy around or maybe better, make pointers.

--tom

From tallpaul@pipeline.com Sat Nov 11 21:51:19 1995
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To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: Mailing Lists Related to Perl
From: tallpaul@pipeline.com (tallpaul)
Cc: perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
X-Mailer: The Pipeline v3.2.0

Thanks. Will do.

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Tue Nov 14 01:40:02 1995
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To: The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@nicoh.com>, clpa@mox.perl.com,
        perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Cc: faq-maintainers@mit.edu, twpierce@midway.uchicago.edu, mjd@plover.com
Subject: Release of (perl) Mail::AutoFAQ module and user software
Reply-To: tchrist@perl.com
Date: Mon, 13 Nov 95 18:40:02 MST
Message-Id: <7216.816313202@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

With some trepidation but encouragement from kind and gentle individuals
whom I'd never have expected to want such a thing :-), I have released the
Mail::Auto_FAQ module.  You may pick it up in

    ftp://perl.com/pub/perl/ext/Mail_AutoFAQ-1.001.tar.gz 

It's an interesting set of programs for various reasons even if you aren't
going to use it to facilitate sending (simple but polite) faq messages,
including dbm-storage of multilevel datastructures.  It does not do
locking, though one could do that easily enough -- See my recent postings
on berkeley db locking.)

It should be extensible down to individual faq answers using a directory
structure.  It only sends private email; it doesn't post.  I even have a
point-and-click TK GUI i/f also, but am not ready to release it yet.

Here's the README.  Be good, now. :-)

--tom

This is a package to implement a benevolent and easy way to send polite
informational messages people.  There's one important rule, which is:

		    YOU HAVE TO BE NICE

Therefore, unlike normal perl freeware licenses, this one has one that
says that you may not modify the software to intentionally harass people.
It's not supposed to be abused.  Please honor any ban requests (to be
unmailable -- there's a tool that sets that) you receive.  Please don't
annoy people, and if you do, let's not don't tell them I wrote the
software.  :-)  Actually, such abuse of others will immediately terminate
your license to use this software, so don't do that.

We use dbm (could use any of them) to create a database file in your
$HOME/.autofaq dir that contains who's ever been sent what mail.  You
shouldn't need to modify anything, but see the config section in
Auto_FAQ.pm to enable a different style.

To install, besides typing make install, you must also mkdir ~/.autofaq/
and ~/.autofaq/FAQs as well.  Note that by default the installdir is set
to the system one.  The FAQs dir should contain simple text messages,
which may have subjects.  You should put a special .signature file in that
FAQs directory.  You may use the contents of the sample FAQs directory
from here if you'd like to, but if so, DON'T FORGET TO CHANGE THE
.signature TO MATCH YOUR OWN PLEASE!!!!  And don't you dare use more
than a total of four lines of signature. :-)

An environment variable $AUTOFAQ_DIR can overwrite the standard place, but
if you share this with others on your system, careful of dbm permissions.
It's actually good to share a standard system default directory -- that
way you minimize who autofaqs someone too often.  There are checks 
so you can't accidentally -- or even intentionally -- introduce never
ending mail loops, which would be a real pain.  Please don't do that.

    fqu		        send a faq to a user; 1st arg is file; 2nd arg
			    is which faq; if no 2nd arg, prompt.

    fqls		list the faq db, some or all users
    fqban		ban some or more mailings to one user, maybe FOREVER
    fqrm		reset user times; includes unbanning

    Auto_FAQ.pm		main library; you may only modify its config section.

    complete.tcsh	some completion and aliases for tcsh		
    rnmac		an rnmac to send a to-be-determined faq to 
			the currently read article

    FAQs		faq dir
	.signature	**** PLEASE CHANGE THIS ***

	    (sample faqs follow)

	clp-dead	dead comp.lang.perl newsgroup
	csh-faq		don't use csh to program
	cgi-metafaq     cgi meta faq
	ipc		perl ipc question
	mods		perl modules file
	pdsc		perl data struct cookbook
	perl-info	perl metafaq
	references	broken references threading
	sham		good times virus, dying kid, etc

	    (etc)


--tom

--
Tom Christiansen      Perl Consultant, Gamer, Hiker tchrist@mox.perl.com

     "Unix is simple, but it takes a genius to understand the simplicity."
					    --Dennis Ritchie

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Tue Nov 14 05:16:06 1995
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Date: Mon, 13 Nov 1995 22:16:06 -0700
Message-Id: <199511140516.WAA11039@mox.perl.com>
To: Ivan Angus <Ivan.Angus@anu.edu.au>, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Newsgroups: comp.lang.perl.misc
Subject: Re: Where (or how) do I get GDBM_File?
References: <488fa4$9uc@student.anu.edu.au>
Reply-To: tchrist@mox.perl.com (Tom Christiansen)
Organization: Perl Consulting and Training

 [courtesy cc of this posting sent to cited author via email, but
  only becuase I went to special effort, since his newsposter was
  broken.]

In comp.lang.perl.misc, 
    Ivan Angus <ivan> writes:
:Recently I was given a PERL 5 script that contains the line
:
:use GDBM_File;
:
:I understand this to be a reference to a GNU DBM module, which I think
:should be a file called GDBM_File.pm.  Our PERL 5, patchlevel 1
:installation only includes SDBM_File.pm.  I've looked at CPAN
:sites until my eyes start to cross, and I can't find a GDBM_File.pm.
:Nor do I know how to take the GDBM itself and produce a PERL module -
:I imagine it's possible to create one, but I don't know how.
:
:Can anyone give me a teeny weeny hint?  Or better yet, the complete answer? :-)

Well, GDBM_File.pm and DB_File.pm are not included standard with perl, but
stubs for them are.  We should get copies of them on CPAN for people.  You
get them from the the FSF via MIT and Berkeley respectively, or wherever
such things are mirrored.

--tom
-- 
Tom Christiansen      Perl Consultant, Gamer, Hiker      tchrist@mox.perl.com

#define SVs_RMG   0x00008000  /* has random magical methods */
    --Larry Wall, from sv.h in the v5.0 perl distribution

From Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk Tue Nov 14 10:42:21 1995
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From: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Message-Id: <9511141042.AA02856@toad>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Wanting to setup CPAN site for New Zealand
Cc: roger@tekotago.ac.nz
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Content-Length: 535
Organization: Paul Ingram Group, Software Systems, +44 1 483 424424

Forwarded to the perl-packrats.

----- Begin Included Message -----

Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 15:59:07 +1200
From: roger@tekotago.ac.nz
To: Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk
Subject: Wanting to setup CPAN site for New Zealand
Content-Type: text

Hi Tim,

I am wanting to mirror CPAN on our FTP server (ftp.tekotago.ac.nz) in
New Zealand.

Please can you advise what software I need to make this possible.

Our ftp server is running under Linux.

Thanks
Roger Gill
Network Engineer
Computer Services
Otago Polytechnic

----- End Included Message -----

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Tue Nov 14 17:16:42 1995
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Date: Tue, 14 Nov 1995 19:16:42 +0200
Message-Id: <199511141716.TAA00299@lk-hp-3.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Tim Bunce <Tim.Bunce@ig.co.uk>
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: Wanting to setup CPAN site for New Zealand
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I contacted this guy.

++jhi;

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Tue Nov 14 23:37:34 1995
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Date: Wed, 15 Nov 1995 01:37:34 +0200
Message-Id: <199511142337.BAA14575@beta.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: CPAN/{CPAN,RECENT,ENDINGS}
Reply-To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
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Changed the CPAN/CPAN format a little bit, added CPAN/RECENT (arrived-
within-a-week), added CPAN/ENDINGS which hopefully answers some questions.

Anything else that might have come to your minds now that CPAN has
been Officially Online for a while? Yes, I know, better searching
capabilities. I am still waiting for a good definition of that
"better searching" and even more for a good implementation...

++jhi;

From acheson@pop.fast.net Tue Nov 21 16:59:38 1995
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Comments: Authenticated sender is <acheson@pop.fast.net>
From: "Jonathan W. Acheson" <acheson@pop.fast.net>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Date: Tue, 21 Nov 1995 16:59:38 +0000
Subject: tar of PERL 4.036 found on your system
Priority: normal
X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.10)

I recently ftp'd the file pub/perl/source/perl4.036.tar.Z from your 
archive, and when my associate had unarchived it, he discovered that 
it contained Perl 4.035 and the patch to upgrade to Perl 4.036.

I was wondering why you chose to archive Perl4.036 in this manner, 
and I thought I'd call it to your attention.

Jon Acheson
acheson@fast.net

From peter.gordon@Indigo.co.il Wed Nov 22 13:55:11 1995
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Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 15:55:11 +0200
From: peter.gordon@Indigo.co.il (Peter Gordon)
Message-Id: <9511221355.AA00699@swamp.indigo.co.il.>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Bug in debugger? 



I am running perl5.001m with the latest version of the debugger
and get different results, because the DESTROY method seems
to get called at different times.

Anyone care to comment?
[Also posted to news group]

Peter


package Test ; 

sub new { 
	bless {}
} 

sub DESTROY { 
	print "HELLO\n" ; 
} 

package main ; 

print "1\n" ; 
$h = new Test ; 

print "2\n" ; 
undef $h ;

print "3\n" ; 
$h = new Test ; 
print "4\n" ; 
undef $h ;

print "5\n" ; 
$h = new Test ; 
print "6\n" ; 
undef $h ;

With the debugger
  DB<1> c
1
2
3
HELLO
4
5
HELLO
6
HELLO

Without the debugger
1
2
HELLO
3
4
HELLO
5
6
HELLO

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Wed Nov 22 18:10:37 1995
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Message-Id: <9511221810.AA11606@j2bsw010.techops>
Subject: Re: Setuid script problems
To: tchrist@mox.perl.com
Date: Wed, 22 Nov 1995 12:10:37 -0600 (CST)
In-Reply-To: <48d53b$ljv@csnews.cs.colorado.edu> from "Tom Christiansen" at Nov 15, 95 04:39:07 pm
Reply-To: c22309@j1xsfs90.is.nwa.com (Mark Conty)
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Resent-To: perlbugs@mox.perl.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Resent-Date: Wed, 22 Nov 95 11:56:48 MST
Resent-Message-Id: <3300.817066608@mox>
Resent-From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

(I accidentally deleted my lib/news/inews binary, so I'm waiting for a
backup to be restored.  Sorry for bothering you directly like this...)

In a recent "comp.lang.perl.misc" posting, you shared a number of
thoughts about scrubbing, untainting, and such.  (You talked about
almost turning it into a FMTEYEWTK...)

I sent some mail to Graham Barr about this yesterday, but in case you
might have already dealt with it, I was wondering if you might know why
I'm getting an "Insecure dependency" error when I try to run Graham's
Net::FTP routines.  Specifically, calling &Net::FTP->new() with "-T"
(or as setuid()) results in a call to &AUTOLOAD to retrieve the value
of AF_INET, and that results in an error message relating to line 129
in Socket.pm:

	eval "sub $AUTOLOAD { $val }";

(I even tried replacing that occurrence of AF_INET with its value (2),
and it _still_ complained about the exact same thing...  *sigh*)

I looked through the "perlbugs" database and found a number of
references about tainting/untainting problems, but they all seem
resolved, so unless I've uncovered a bug, I figure I'm doing something
wrong here.  I can't quite put my finger on it, though.

BTW, is it reasonable to expect that modules added to CPAN might have
first been checked for things like this?  Or isn't this aspect of PERL
(tainting) used very much?  I don't mean to cast aspersions on Graham
and his work, but I was just curious about that.  (And if, in fact, his
routines (and Socket.pm) are known to work well in a "-T"/setuid()
environment, then I must be indeed doing something wrong ... again.)

Any chance you might be able to touch on this in the newsgroup?
Specifically, are there untainting concerns when reading/writing
sockets?

Thanks!
--
Mark D. Conty                                 c22309@j1xsfs90.is.nwa.com
Northwest Airlines                                  mdconty@idss.nwa.com
IS/Applications                   <><                  mdc@winternet.com

From teacher@aachen.eed.ericsson.se Fri Nov 24 08:08:04 1995
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From: teacher@aachen.eed.ericsson.se (Tom Christiansen)
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Subject: Re: NTperl in Reskit 3.51?

>From tchrist@mox.perl.com Fri Nov 24 02:49:55 1995
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Those silly guys at Microsoft!

I looked at the CD and did not see it either - but alas, you are not out of
luck, the latest build is at ftp://ntperl.hip.com/ntperl, and there are
binary versions for most hardware platforms there.

enjoy

-- Dick

At 10:28 AM 11/22/95 -0500, Wayne Berke wrote:
>What's the deal with the 3.51 Resource kit?  The CD seems to provide all the
>perl libraries and documentation files, but no perl.exe.
>
>-----
>Wayne Berke
>
>
--~--~--~--~-- hi mom! -~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~--~
mailto:Dick_Hardt@hip.com     fax: 604.654.9881 
http://info.hip.com/info       me: 604.685.0124
hip communications inc. 
350 - 1122 Mainland Street, Vancouver BC, V6B 5L1




do we mirror these nt guys?

--tom

From teacher@aachen.eed.ericsson.se Mon Nov 27 17:51:30 1995
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Date: Mon, 27 Nov 95 18:51:30 +0100
From: teacher@aachen.eed.ericsson.se (Tom Christiansen)
Message-Id: <9511271751.AA21987@aachen.ericsson.se>
To: roehrich@cray.com, wmiddlet@mv.us.adobe.com
Subject: Re: Invoking a POSIX function, times() - how do you get the return value and the modified buffer?
Cc: perl-packrats@perl.com, perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com,
        toborne@systems.DHL.COM

>I'll put itimers.pl into the scripts/date_and_time area tonight.
>
>Bill

Thanks!

This should probably make it to cpan, but it's just a perl4 foo.pl
library, not a perl5  Foo-1.0.tar.gz module.  Is that a problem?

--tom

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Mon Nov 27 18:07:02 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: teacher@aachen.eed.ericsson.se (Tom Christiansen)
Cc: roehrich@cray.com, wmiddlet@mv.us.adobe.com, perl-packrats@perl.com,
        perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com, toborne@systems.DHL.COM
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Tom Christiansen writes:
 > >I'll put itimers.pl into the scripts/date_and_time area tonight.
 > >
 > >Bill
 > 
 > Thanks!
 > 
 > This should probably make it to cpan, but it's just a perl4 foo.pl
 > library, not a perl5  Foo-1.0.tar.gz module.  Is that a problem?
 > 
 > --tom

It will make its to cpan, automagically.

++jhi;

From filippi@cnptia.embrapa.br Tue Dec  5 10:27:56 1995
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From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Tue Dec  5 20:53:13 1995
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Can be found at...?

(no, the answer is not "at CPAN", that is exactly why I am asking...)

++jhi;

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Fri Dec  8 00:01:49 1995
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To: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com,
        The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@nicoh.com>
Subject: some cpan issues
Reply-To: tchrist@perl.com
Date: Thu, 07 Dec 95 17:01:49 MST
Message-Id: <14675.818380909@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

First, I keep wondering wehther we really ought to include db-1.85
standard with perl.  How to download and set it up is not obvious, and it's
a significant gain over NDBM.  At the very least, it should be included in
CPAN,a nd so far it isn't.

Next, I notice a DES module that is present in CPAN even in North American.  While
I dispise our current national policy, I don't want to go to jail.  it
eerytime so I and the rest of us don't get dragged off to jail for being
illegal munitions dealers?

Tom Christiansen      Perl Consultant, Gamer, Hiker      tchrist@mox.perl.com
    "I find this a nice feature but it is not according to the
    documentation.  Or is it a BUG?" "Let's call it an accidental feature.
    :-)" Larry Wall in <6909@jpl-devvax.JPL.NASA.GOV>

From wjm@best.com Fri Dec  8 05:30:01 1995
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Subject: Re: some cpan issues
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The older des.pl in scripts/admin is now gone.  Left a note
in index.html.  I'm not sure whether that one really fit
into the definition, but perl-hackers have had enough trouble
lately.

Thanks for keepin' us sober, Tom.  

Sorry to all the non-US sites, I guess it's gonna take
a regexp to mirror.defaults for y'all.

Bill

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Fri Dec  8 06:32:33 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: tchrist@perl.com
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com,
        The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@nicoh.com>
Subject: some cpan issues
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Tom Christiansen writes:
 > First, I keep wondering wehther we really ought to include db-1.85
 > standard with perl.  How to download and set it up is not obvious, and it's
 > a significant gain over NDBM.  At the very least, it should be included in
 > CPAN,a nd so far it isn't.

I have no idea which CPAN you are talking about.

nic:~ ; ls -l CPAN/src/misc/db*
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        258569 Jun 20  1994 CPAN/src/misc/db.1.79.tar.gz
-rw-r--r--   1 jhi      ftp        270953 Sep  1  1994 CPAN/src/misc/db.1.85.tar.gz
lrwxrwxr-x   1 jhi      ftp            14 Jun 17 14:30 CPAN/src/misc/db.tar.gz -> db.1.85.tar.gz
nic:~ ; 

 > Next, I notice a DES module that is present in CPAN even in North American.  While
 > I dispise our current national policy, I don't want to go to jail.  it
 > eerytime so I and the rest of us don't get dragged off to jail for being
 > illegal munitions dealers?

Sigh. Why don't you just do something like [spook spook spook spook]
to your rotten [spook] and idiotic [spook spook]?

ITAR cares about USAns trading "arms" to foreigners. You USA sites
better also stop distributing modules/by-module/Des/ if you are going
to behave as your national security people want.

Rather than deleting the naughty bits I would rather see all the CPAN
USA sites carrying a separate document (README.something) that would
explicitly prohibit any non-USAn to pick anything encryption stuff
from this site. I can put a note about such a file to the top level
README -- but some of you USAns will have to write such a file
first. This is the policy for example Digital uses in gatekeeper *) --
there are naughty files in there but DEC forswears any responsibility
because it has told about there possibly being such naughty files.

The French are by law not allowed even to _use_ _any_ encryption (sole
privilege of the army and the like) but I have still to see them stop
distributing it.

++jhi;

P.S. ftp://ftp.gatekeeper.dec.com/US-Legal-Regs-ITAR-NOTICE:
                     ***** WARNING *****

This notice references certain program source code which may be subject to
United States Federal Law and regulations concerning distribution outside
of the United States or transfer to a "non US entity". Digital employees
should consult with a representative of the Digital US Export Compliance
office prior to accessing this software. Other users of this archive are
advised to seek legal advice. Programs containing implementation of data
encryption and other algorithms are subject to US Federal ITAR regulation.
An export license from the US State Department may be required. Legal
advice is advised.

From k@anna.mind.de Fri Dec  8 06:26:26 1995
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Message-Id: <199512080626.HAA02062@anna.mind.de>
From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com
Cc: kgb@aaoepp2.aao.GOV.AU
Subject: mirroring binaries
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

Karl Glazebrook <kgb@aaoepp.aao.gov.au>, the author of PGPLOT asked
me, if CPAN could mirror the binaries he has built. I cannot decide
that on my own so I ask you. 

This is really two questions:

- do we have the diskspace
- do we really want that

Recalling the discussion about the news archive, I have the
impression, diskspace is a concern for some sites. If too many
extension writers decide to compile binaries and feed them into CPAN,
we're gonna have a real problem. Appended the current contents of
Karl's ftp directories.

The other thing is, that we probably want modules to be just that --
modules.


Then Karl also asked me to mirror his perl4 version of PGPLOT. That's
a job for Jarkko, but also here we have to decide about the
binaries. (Don't confuse pgperl and pgperl! The one is Postgres, the
other pgplot :-/ Karl has already renamed the perl5 version to PGPLOT,
you will see that in your mirrors tomorrow, the perl4 version is still
called pgperl).

Opinions?
andreas


FTP-Host: ftp.ast.cam.ac.uk

Index of /pub/kgb/pgperl/perl4

    Name                   Last modified     Size 


    Parent directory
    CHANGES                08-Aug-95 14:10     2K 
    pgperl1.0a_src.tar.Z   13-Jun-95 17:25    76K 
    pgperl1.0b_hp.tar.Z    08-Aug-95 14:12   1.4M 
    pgperl1.0b_linux.tar.Z 08-Aug-95 14:12   857K 
    pgperl1.0b_osf1.tar.Z  08-Aug-95 14:11   761K 
    pgperl1.0b_sol2.tar.Z  08-Aug-95 14:11   971K 
    pgperl1.0b_src.tar.Z   08-Aug-95 14:12    80K 
    pgperl1.0b_sun4.tar.Z  08-Aug-95 14:11   909K 

8 files

Index of /pub/kgb/pgperl/perl5

    Name                   Last modified     Size 


    Parent directory
    contrib/               13-Jun-95 16:39      - 
    PGPLOT1.0a_src.tar.Z   13-Jun-95 17:39    78K 
    PGPLOT1.0b_hp.tar.Z    07-Dec-95 05:59   1.0M 
    PGPLOT1.0b_linux.tar.Z 07-Dec-95 06:12   852K 
    PGPLOT1.0b_osf1.tar.Z  07-Dec-95 06:23   487K 
    PGPLOT1.0b_sol2.tar.Z  07-Dec-95 06:34   925K 
    PGPLOT1.0b_src.tar.Z   07-Dec-95 05:36    79K 
    PGPLOT1.0b_sun4.tar.Z  07-Dec-95 07:04   941K 

8 files

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Fri Dec  8 06:57:24 1995
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From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: Jarkko.Hietaniemi@hut.fi
Cc: tchrist@perl.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com,
        The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com>
Subject: some cpan issues
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I of course understand you deleting the des.pl, it has very clearly
come from Australia to Bill at Metronet, very-much-USA, and from there
it has sailed away and duplicated all over the world. I have seen
people explain that ITAR's groping hands apply even to the Eric
Young's (the guy in Australia who has written a well-known DES
implementation and _also_ the guy, erm, mate?, behind the des.pl)
encryption software _because_ the network connection of Australia _comes_
through_ the US. *) Because the DES code has touched the American soil
it has become a munition.

++jhi;

*) Not unlike someone saying that 'because the pop concert came through
the radio _I_ own I also can deny playing the songs to foreigners.'

From jhi@snakemail.hut.fi Fri Dec  8 07:34:15 1995
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Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 09:34:15 +0200
Message-Id: <199512080734.JAA00901@lk-hp-2.hut.fi>
From: Jarkko Hietaniemi <jhi@snakemail.hut.fi>
Organization: Helsinki University of Technology, Finland
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, kgb@aaoepp2.aao.GOV.AU
Subject: mirroring binaries
In-Reply-To: <199512080626.HAA02062@anna.mind.de>
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Andreas Koenig writes:
 > Karl Glazebrook <kgb@aaoepp.aao.gov.au>, the author of PGPLOT asked
 > me, if CPAN could mirror the binaries he has built. I cannot decide
 > that on my own so I ask you. 
 > 
 > This is really two questions:
 > 
 > - do we have the diskspace
 > - do we really want that
 > 

No.
No.

Sorry to sound this negative...but I have some grounds for my opinions.

The binaries do take a little bit too much space. Karl's stuff alone
is almost 10 MB -- just for two modules and five architectures.
We have about 120 modules now.

Karl, you are welcome to put a note to your source distribution
pointing to the binary distributions but I am afraid that CPAN as it
stands will not start carrying binaries (excepting perl binaries
itself for alien planets like VMS/MS-DOS). People did complain
about a few dozen megabytes of comp.lang.perl{,.misc} archives.

Andreas: could your wonderful PAUSE somehow help in this? In addition
to submitting modules and other files could there be some data fields
that authors could fill in? Like "binary distributions for this
module available at URL this://and/that"?

++jhi;

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Fri Dec  8 14:37:19 1995
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To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: perl-packrats@metronet.com, kgb@aaoepp2.aao.GOV.AU, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: mirroring binaries 
In-Reply-To: Andreas Koenig's message <199512080626.HAA02062@anna.mind.de> of Fri, 08 Dec 95 07:26:26 +0100.
References: <199512080626.HAA02062@anna.mind.de> 
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 95 07:37:19 MST
Message-Id: <28055.818433439@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

i don't want to have binaries.  down that path lies viruses and
other problems.

--tom

From orwant@fahrenheit-451.media.mit.edu Fri Dec  8 16:18:23 1995
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From: Jon Orwant <orwant@fahrenheit-451.media.mit.edu>
Message-Id: <9512081618.AA28073@fahrenheit-451.media.mit.edu>
To: tchrist@perl.com
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, perl5-porters@nicoh.com
In-Reply-To: <14675.818380909@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Thu, 07 Dec 95 17:01:49 MST)
Subject: Re: some cpan issues
Reply-To: orwant@media.mit.edu


> Next, I notice a DES module that is present in CPAN even in North America.
> While
> I dispise our current national policy, I don't want to go to jail.  it
> eerytime so I and the rest of us don't get dragged off to jail for being
> illegal munitions dealers?

Ah!  No wonder you wrote "MUNITIONS" in four-inch high letters on
the review copy of my book!

DES is kosher.  It's pretty much only RSA that poses problems, because
it's a) patented, and b) really *is* hard to break.

DES is non-proprietary (even though IBM did the initial development)
and exportable.  It's even the "ANSI Standard for Data Encryption"
as per X3.92-1981.  The ISO even said, "yeah, let's make this a worldwide
standard" before they decided to avoid cryptography altogether.

FIPS (Federal Information Processing Standard) 46-1 states that
federal employees should *not* use DES to protect classified
information.  So the ITAR boys can't really say that it's in "the
interests of national security" to keep it bottled up.

Jon

From k@anna.mind.de Fri Dec  8 16:29:41 1995
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From: Andreas Koenig <k@anna.mind.de>
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: tchrist@perl.com
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, perl5-porters@nicoh.com
In-Reply-To: <14675.818380909@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Thu, 07
	Dec 95 17:01:49 MST)
Subject: Re: some cpan issues
Reply-To: andreas.koenig@mind.de

>>>>> "tom" == Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com> writes:

 tom> Next, I notice a DES module that is present in CPAN even in North American.  While
 tom> I dispise our current national policy, I don't want to go to jail.  it
 tom> eerytime so I and the rest of us don't get dragged off to jail for being
 tom> illegal munitions dealers?

Malcolm Beattie's DES module does not contain DES code. It's a module
based on the des library by Eric Young which is not contained in the
package. Sure you still might run a risk of breaking USA law -- I
don't know. Could anybody check that out, before all the USA sites
delete the module?

andreas

From wmiddlet@mv.us.adobe.com Fri Dec  8 18:40:11 1995
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From: wmiddlet@mv.us.adobe.com (Bill Middleton)
Message-Id: <9512081840.AA14538@ducks.mv.us.adobe.com>
Subject: Re: some cpan issues
To: orwant@media.mit.edu
Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 10:40:11 -0800 (PST)
Cc: perl5-porters@nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
In-Reply-To: <9512081618.AA28073@fahrenheit-451.media.mit.edu> from "Jon Orwant" at Dec 8, 95 11:18:23 am
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> 
> 
> > Next, I notice a DES module that is present in CPAN even in North America.
> > While
> > I dispise our current national policy, I don't want to go to jail.  it
> > eerytime so I and the rest of us don't get dragged off to jail for being
> > illegal munitions dealers?
> 
> Ah!  No wonder you wrote "MUNITIONS" in four-inch high letters on
> the review copy of my book!
> 
> DES is kosher.  It's pretty much only RSA that poses problems, because
> it's a) patented, and b) really *is* hard to break.
> 
> DES is non-proprietary (even though IBM did the initial development)
> and exportable.  It's even the "ANSI Standard for Data Encryption"
> as per X3.92-1981.  The ISO even said, "yeah, let's make this a worldwide
> standard" before they decided to avoid cryptography altogether.

Could I get some confirmation on this?  Tom?  I was feeling
pretty wimpy after last night's removal, but I'm not willing
to put the metronet folks, or anyone here, at risk.  


> 
> FIPS (Federal Information Processing Standard) 46-1 states that
> federal employees should *not* use DES to protect classified
> information.  So the ITAR boys can't really say that it's in "the
> interests of national security" to keep it bottled up.
> 
> Jon
> 

Thanks,

Bill

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Fri Dec  8 18:50:47 1995
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To: wmiddlet@mv.us.adobe.com (Bill Middleton)
Cc: orwant@media.mit.edu, perl5-porters@nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com,
        tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: some cpan issues 
In-Reply-To: Bill Middleton's message <9512081840.AA14538@ducks.mv.us.adobe.com> of Fri, 08 Dec 95 10:40:11 PST.
References: <9512081840.AA14538@ducks.mv.us.adobe.com> 
Date: Fri, 08 Dec 95 11:50:47 MST
Message-Id: <2754.818448647@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

>> 
>> 
>> > Next, I notice a DES module that is present in CPAN even in North America.
>> > While
>> > I dispise our current national policy, I don't want to go to jail.  it
>> > eerytime so I and the rest of us don't get dragged off to jail for being
>> > illegal munitions dealers?
>> 
>> Ah!  No wonder you wrote "MUNITIONS" in four-inch high letters on
>> the review copy of my book!
>> 
>> DES is kosher.  It's pretty much only RSA that poses problems, because
>> it's a) patented, and b) really *is* hard to break.
>> 
>> DES is non-proprietary (even though IBM did the initial development)
>> and exportable.  It's even the "ANSI Standard for Data Encryption"
>> as per X3.92-1981.  The ISO even said, "yeah, let's make this a worldwide
>> standard" before they decided to avoid cryptography altogether.

>Could I get some confirmation on this?  Tom?  I was feeling
>pretty wimpy after last night's removal, but I'm not willing
>to put the metronet folks, or anyone here, at risk.  

I have long labored under the idea that you can't ship DES stuff without
special dispensation.  That's why there exist international versus
northamerican distributions of a lot of software.  I guess I could ask
Phil when I get back to frigid 15 below 0 F Boulder tonight from sunny
pleasant Tucson. :-)

--tom

From kjahds@kjahds.com Fri Dec  8 22:57:38 1995
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Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 17:57:38 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: andreas.koenig@mind.de
Cc: tchrist@perl.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, perl5-porters@nicoh.com
Subject: Re: some cpan issues
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On Fri, 8 Dec 1995, Andreas Koenig wrote:

> Malcolm Beattie's DES module does not contain DES code. It's a module
> based on the des library by Eric Young which is not contained in the
> package. Sure you still might run a risk of breaking USA law -- I
> don't know. Could anybody check that out, before all the USA sites
> delete the module?

I think some of the export restrictions can even extend to code that
contains "hooks" for encryptation to be added later, so it probably isn't
absolutely safe. I am not a cryptology expert, so don't listen to me,
though. 

> andreas

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From eichin@tito.cygnus.com Fri Dec  8 23:32:15 1995
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To: orwant@media.mit.edu
Cc: tchrist@perl.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, perl5-porters@nicoh.com
In-Reply-To: <9512081618.AA28073@fahrenheit-451.media.mit.edu> (message from
	Jon Orwant on Fri, 8 Dec 1995 11:18:23 -0500)
Subject: Re: some cpan issues
From: eichin@cygnus.com

> DES is kosher.  It's pretty much only RSA that poses problems, because

Sorry, Jon, that's completely wrong. You can NOT export DES in source
or binary form with out a license, and you can't get the license for
source (you can for binary in authentication-only products, like
OpenVision's kerberos V product, but for source products, you can't
get export permission. My life would be a *lot* easier if I could
export des or kerberos source; you'd even find *my* implementation of
des (and kerberos!) in perl in CPAN, but instead I've never published
it...)
			_Mark_ <eichin@cygnus.com>
			Cygnus Support
			Cygnus Network Security <network-security@cygnus.com>
			http://www.cygnus.com/data/cns/
ps. For more details on the ITAR, check the ftp.cygnus.com ftp server
(there may be pointers on the web too) for John Gilmore's archive of
public actions related to the ITAR. However, don't take action based
on my advace, or probably even your own interpretation, without
competent legal counsel -- ITAR involves jail terms, and there have
been ITAR-related convictions.)

From eichin@tito.cygnus.com Fri Dec  8 23:52:12 1995
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To: tchrist@perl.com
Cc: perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, perl5-porters@nicoh.com
In-Reply-To: <14675.818380909@mox> (message from Tom Christiansen on Thu, 07
	Dec 95 17:01:49 MST)
Subject: Re: some cpan issues
From: eichin@cygnus.com

As for db-1.85 -- although it has some obvious superiorities over dbm,
we had some trouble with it at MIT with large [100K entries]
databases, so it might be worth finding a newer release (the author
may have fixed the bug, but not as of the 1.85 release, as far as I
know...) I don't actually know if there's a newer release, but it
might be worth investigating.

From KGB@aaoepp2.aao.GOV.AU Sat Dec  9 02:27:00 1995
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Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 12:27 +1000
From: "Karl Glazebrook, Anglo-Australian Observatory" <KGB@aaoepp2.aao.GOV.AU>
Subject: Re: mirroring binaries
To: perl-packrats@metronet.com, andreas.koenig@mind.de, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Message-Id: <BA2C7B0000A02B45@aaoepp.aao.gov.au>
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 tchrist@mox.perl.com
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 IN%"tchrist@mox.perl.com"
X-Vms-Cc: KGB

 
Dear perl packrats,

Tom writes on the subject of my PGPLOT module:

>i don't want to have binaries.  down that path lies viruses and
>other problems.

Very true. The binaries are just there as a convenience to people
who are prepared to trust me. <grin> 

Putting in a pointer to my ftp site sounds like a very sensible solution,
it could also mention the existence of the perl4 version.

One minor pedanticism: I am not the "author of PGPLOT" - that
honour belongs to Tim Pearsson at Caltech (tjp@astro.caltech.edu).
PGPLOT is a C/F77 graphics library widely used by us astronomers.
I am merely the humble author of the perl bindings.
This is all mentioned in the docs of course so I guess no more
need be said.

Finally, while I am here, I was wondering this morning if someone
worked on the problem of mapping C structures onto perl - at least
for simple structures where the components are all scalar values.
I can see how to do it myself (return an hash where the keys match
the structure components), but I would be grateful if someone
could point me to any wheels already invented. (Couldn't see
anything obvious in the modules list). I would normally post but
this seems like a much more select audience! :-)

best wishes,

Karl 
 

From orwant@media.mit.edu Sat Dec  9 06:38:56 1995
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From: orwant@media.mit.edu (Jon Orwant)
Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 01:38:56 -0500
In-Reply-To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
       "Re: some cpan issues" (Dec  8, 11:50am)
X-Mailer: Mail User's Shell (7.2.3 5/22/91)
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>,
        wmiddlet@mv.us.adobe.com (Bill Middleton)
Subject: Re: some cpan issues
Cc: orwant@media.mit.edu, perl5-porters@nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com

The State Department has, in particular instances, allowed DES export.  
But---whoops---they don't do so by default, so they certainly wouldn't        
approve of its appearance in CPAN, even though des.pl is freely available
(from U.S. sites, even).           

I sincerely apologize for any felony convictions I might have caused.

But, still, I wonder:  why the restrictions on an algorithm that was never
intended to be used with classified information?

From kjahds@kjahds.com Sat Dec  9 22:17:22 1995
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Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 17:17:22 -0500 (EST)
From: Kenneth Albanowski <kjahds@kjahds.com>
To: Jon Orwant <orwant@media.mit.edu>
Cc: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>,
        Bill Middleton <wmiddlet@mv.us.adobe.com>, orwant@media.mit.edu,
        perl5-porters@nicoh.com, perl-packrats@metronet.com
Subject: Re: some cpan issues
In-Reply-To: <9512090638.AA03767@media-lab.media.mit.edu>
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On Sat, 9 Dec 1995, Jon Orwant wrote:

> The State Department has, in particular instances, allowed DES export.  
> But---whoops---they don't do so by default, so they certainly wouldn't        
> approve of its appearance in CPAN, even though des.pl is freely available
> (from U.S. sites, even).           
> 
> I sincerely apologize for any felony convictions I might have caused.
> 
> But, still, I wonder:  why the restrictions on an algorithm that was never
> intended to be used with classified information?

I think because the algorithm is appliable with different key sizes. (Or
something like that.) Implementations locked to lesser then 48-bit keys
are exportable. (Or something like that.)

--
Kenneth Albanowski (kjahds@kjahds.com, CIS: 70705,126)


From tchrist@mox.perl.com Fri Dec 22 14:25:47 1995
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To: The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@nicoh.com>,
        perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Subject: PerlDoc with TOCs
Reply-To: tchrist@perl.com
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 07:25:47 MST
Message-Id: <1235.819642347@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

Please retrieve and distribute (preferably also to CPAN)

    ftp://perl.com/perl/doc/PerlDoc-beta1g.tar.gz

which contains

  72563 Dec 22 07:20 PerlDoc-beta1g/00-Cover.ps
  12790 Dec 22 07:16 PerlDoc-beta1g/01-TOC-short.ps
  72091 Dec 22 07:19 PerlDoc-beta1g/02-TOC-long.ps
1782380 Dec 22 06:21 PerlDoc-beta1g/03-PerlDoc.ps

I have a plane to catch.   See ya next year.

Merry Christmas!

--tom

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Fri Dec 22 14:35:33 1995
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To: tchrist@perl.com
Cc: The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com>,
        perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: PerlDoc with TOCs 
In-Reply-To: Tom Christiansen's message <1235.819642347@mox> of Fri, 22 Dec 95 07:25:47 MST.
References: <1235.819642347@mox> 
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 07:35:33 MST
Message-Id: <1304.819642933@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

that's

    cover	 1 page
    short toc	 2 pages
    long toc	27 pages
    full docs  441 pages

	       471 pages
	      

don't say i didn't warn you. :-)

--tom

From kris@bionmr1.rug.ac.be Fri Dec 22 14:40:54 1995
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From: "Kris Boulez" <kris@bionmr1.rug.ac.be>
Message-Id: <9512221540.ZM26249@bionmr1.rug.ac.be>
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 15:40:54 +0100
In-Reply-To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
        "Re: PerlDoc with TOCs" (Dec 22,  7:35am)
References: <1235.819642347@mox>  <1304.819642933@mox>
X-Mailer: Z-Mail (3.2.0 26oct94 MediaMail)
To: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>
Subject: Re: PerlDoc with TOCs
Cc: The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com>,
        perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
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On Dec 22,  7:35am, Tom Christiansen wrote:
> Subject: Re: PerlDoc with TOCs
> that's
>
>     cover	 1 page
>     short toc	 2 pages
>     long toc	27 pages
>     full docs  441 pages
>
> 	       471 pages
>
Are this pages in letter format ? If so, is there a version in A4 ?

Kris,

From tchrist@mox.perl.com Fri Dec 22 14:43:39 1995
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To: "Kris Boulez" <kris@bionmr1.rug.ac.be>
Cc: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>,
        The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com>,
        perl-packrats@mox.perl.com, tchrist@mox.perl.com
Subject: Re: PerlDoc with TOCs 
In-Reply-To: "Kris Boulez"'s message <9512221540.ZM26249@bionmr1.rug.ac.be> of Fri, 22 Dec 95 15:40:54 +0100.
References: <1235.819642347@mox> <1304.819642933@mox> <9512221540.ZM26249@bionmr1.rug.ac.be> 
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 07:43:39 MST
Message-Id: <1388.819643419@mox>
From: Tom Christiansen <tchrist@mox.perl.com>

>On Dec 22,  7:35am, Tom Christiansen wrote:
>> Subject: Re: PerlDoc with TOCs
>> that's
>>
>>     cover	 1 page
>>     short toc	 2 pages
>>     long toc	27 pages
>>     full docs  441 pages
>>
>> 	       471 pages
>>
>Are this pages in letter format ? If so, is there a version in A4 ?

yes.  no.

silly eurometrics. :-)

use these.  munge them.  it's what i did.  good luck.

#! /bin/sh
# This is a shell archive.  Remove anything before this line, then unpack
# it by saving it into a file and typing "sh file".  To overwrite existing
# files, type "sh file -c".  You can also feed this as standard input via
# unshar, or by typing "sh <file", e.g..  If this archive is complete, you
# will see the following message at the end:
#		"End of shell archive."
# Contents:  roffitall parsetoc
# Wrapped by tchrist@mox on Fri Dec 22 07:43:05 1995
PATH=/bin:/usr/bin:/usr/ucb ; export PATH
if test -f 'roffitall' -a "${1}" != "-c" ; then 
  echo shar: Will not clobber existing file \"'roffitall'\"
else
echo shar: Extracting \"'roffitall'\" \(3058 characters\)
sed "s/^X//" >'roffitall' <<'END_OF_FILE'
X#!/bin/sh
X#nroff -man -rC1 -rD1 -rF1 > /tmp/PerlDoc.txt 2>/tmp/PerlTOC.nr.raw \
Xpsroff -t -man -rC1 -rD1 -rF1 > /tmp/PerlDoc.ps 2>/tmp/PerlTOC.raw \
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perl.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perldata.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlsyn.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlop.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlre.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlrun.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlfunc.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlvar.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlsub.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlmod.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlref.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perldsc.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perllol.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlobj.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perltie.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlbot.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perldebug.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perldiag.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlform.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlipc.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlsec.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perltrap.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlstyle.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlxs.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlxstut.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlguts.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlcall.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlembed.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlpod.1	\
X    /usr/local/man/man1/perlbook.1	\
X	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/subs.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/strict.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/sigtrap.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/overload.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/lib.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/less.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/integer.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/diagnostics.3	\
X	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/AnyDBM_File.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/AutoLoader.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/AutoSplit.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Benchmark.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Carp.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Config.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Cwd.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/DB_File.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Devel::SelfStubber.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/DynaLoader.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/English.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Env.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Exporter.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/ExtUtils::Liblist.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/ExtUtils::MakeMaker.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/ExtUtils::Manifest.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/ExtUtils::Miniperl.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/ExtUtils::Mkbootstrap.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Fcntl.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/File::Basename.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/File::CheckTree.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/File::Find.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/File::Path.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/FileHandle.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Getopt::Long.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Getopt::Std.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/I18N::Collate.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/IPC::Open2.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/IPC::Open3.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Net::Ping.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/POSIX.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Safe.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/SelfLoader.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Socket.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Sys::Hostname.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Term::Cap.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Term::Complete.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Test::Harness.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Text::Abbrev.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Text::Soundex.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Text::Tabs.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Text::Wrap.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/TieHash.3	\
X/usr/local/man/man3/Time::Local.3	
END_OF_FILE
if test 3058 -ne `wc -c <'roffitall'`; then
    echo shar: \"'roffitall'\" unpacked with wrong size!
fi
# end of 'roffitall'
fi
if test -f 'parsetoc' -a "${1}" != "-c" ; then 
  echo shar: Will not clobber existing file \"'parsetoc'\"
else
echo shar: Extracting \"'parsetoc'\" \(1271 characters\)
sed "s/^X//" >'parsetoc' <<'END_OF_FILE'
Xprint <<'EOF';
X.de NP
X'.sp 0.8i
X.tl ''- % -''
X'bp
X'sp 0.5i
X.tl ''\fB\s+2Perl Table of Contents\s0\fR''
X'sp 0.3i
X..
X.wh -1i NP
X.af % i
X.sp 0.5i
X.tl ''\fB\s+5Perl Table of Contents\s0\fR''
X.sp 0.5i
X.nf
X.na
XEOF
Xwhile (<>) {
X    #chomp;
X    s/Index://;
X    ($type, $page, $desc) = split ' ', $_, 3;
X    $desc =~ s/^"(.*)"$/$1/;
X    if      ($type eq 'Title') {
X	($name = $desc) =~ s/ .*//;
X	next;
X    } elsif ($type eq 'Name') {
X	print STDERR  $page, "\t", $desc;
X	print ".ne 5\n";
X	print ".in 0\n";
X	print ".sp\n";
X	print ".ft B\n";
X	print "$desc\n";
X	print ".ft P\n";
X	print ".in 5n\n";
X    } elsif ($type eq 'Header') {
X	print ".br\n", $page, "\t", $desc;
X    } elsif ($type eq 'Subsection') {
X	print ".br\n", $page, "\t\t", $desc;
X    } elsif ($type eq 'Item') {
X	next if $desc =~ /\\bu/;
X	next unless $name =~ /POSIX|func/i;
X	print ".br\n", $page, "\t\t\t", $desc;
X    }
X} 
X__END__
XIndex:Title	1	"PERL 1"
XIndex:Name	1	"perl - Practical Extraction and Report Language"
XIndex:Header	1	"NAME"
XIndex:Header	1	"SYNOPSIS"
XIndex:Header	2	"DESCRIPTION"
XIndex:Item	2	"\(bu Many usability enhancements"
XIndex:Item	2	"\(bu Simplified grammar"
XIndex:Item	2	"\(bu Lexical scoping"
XIndex:Item	2	"\(bu Arbitrarily nested data structures"
XIndex:Item	2	"\(bu Modularity and reusability"
END_OF_FILE
if test 1271 -ne `wc -c <'parsetoc'`; then
    echo shar: \"'parsetoc'\" unpacked with wrong size!
fi
# end of 'parsetoc'
fi
echo shar: End of shell archive.
exit 0

From h.b.furuseth@usit.uio.no Fri Dec 22 15:59:31 1995
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Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 16:59:31 +0100
Message-Id: <199512221559.QAA10716@durin.uio.no>
From: Hallvard B Furuseth <h.b.furuseth@usit.uio.no>
Mime-Version: 1.0
To: tchrist@perl.com
Cc: The Perl Porters Mailing List <perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com>,
        perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
In-Reply-To: <1235.819642347@mox>
Subject: Re: PerlDoc with TOCs

> 1782380 Dec 22 06:21 PerlDoc-beta1g/03-PerlDoc.ps

03-PerlDoc.ps starts whith an initial blank `page 0', which causes each
sheet to start on an even page number.

Though one good thing about this is that packages (man section 3) start
on a new sheet; it would be nice to keep that feature:-)


Regards,

Hallvard

From okamoto@hpcc123.corp.hp.com Fri Dec 22 18:29:39 1995
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From: Jeff Okamoto <okamoto@hpcc123.corp.hp.com>
Message-Id: <199512221829.AA256746981@hpcc123.corp.hp.com>
Subject: Re: PerlDoc with TOCs
To: perl5-porters@africa.nicoh.com, perl-packrats@mox.perl.com
Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 10:29:39 PST
In-Reply-To: <1235.819642347@mox>; from "Tom Christiansen" at Dec 22, 95 7:25 am
Mailer: Elm [revision: 70.85]

> Please retrieve and distribute (preferably also to CPAN)
> 
>     ftp://perl.com/perl/doc/PerlDoc-beta1g.tar.gz

Boo, hiss, perl.com appears to be either down or isolated from the Internet.
Anyone got a copy they can put on CPAN or send to me?

Jeff

