From xemacs-m  Fri Apr 18 02:43:32 1997
Received: from jagor.srce.hr (jagor.srce.hr [161.53.2.130])
	by xemacs.org (8.8.5/8.8.5) with ESMTP id CAA24636
	for <xemacs-beta@xemacs.org>; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 02:38:53 -0500 (CDT)
Received: (from hniksic@localhost)
          by jagor.srce.hr (8.8.5/8.8.4)
	  id JAA12297; Fri, 18 Apr 1997 09:37:41 +0200 (MET DST)
To: XEmacs Developers <xemacs-beta@xemacs.org>
Subject: Re: Packaging criteria
References: <m2ohbdz4ey.fsf@altair.xemacs.org> <kign2qxouar.fsf@jagor.srce.hr> <m2d8rs6dgd.fsf@altair.xemacs.org>
X-URL: ftp://gnjilux.cc.fer.hr/pub/unix/util/wget/
X-Attribution: Hrv
X-Face: 4Ep[g9-@0E(fGis\iN[=/j-3#q82z/#$d-3q-m+|V4y|W8pzaCVLawV3zk,w0
        umo:w7z{fL[(\UWyN2s:]}@qZeG"}HLw\c7QjaRrxc+=Ho&3*'g{&(4bh\8g5
        ^xF(9(kD2PYOYfzgn|0wLH^3;Y)v%T9?~:q}o0^LW!CS]S@N`Ee$+S6Hc
From: Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr>
Date: 18 Apr 1997 09:37:40 +0200
In-Reply-To: Steven L Baur's message of 17 Apr 1997 23:40:34 -0700
Message-ID: <kigiv1kok6z.fsf@jagor.srce.hr>
Lines: 79
X-Mailer: Gnus v5.4.45/XEmacs 19.15

Steven L Baur <steve@miranova.com> writes:

> > 1) All the "small" (one-file) lisp packages that we want to have
> >    should go into core.  There is little sense in obtaining a strokes
> >    "package".
> 
> I disagree.  If we do this we need most of everything.  Some of
> these one-file lisp packages have heavy dependencies (example:
> webster-www.el).  The package system should be able to deal with
> single file packages.

I didn't argue that the package system shouldn't be *able* to deal
with single packages.  I maintain that it would be of the greatest
*use* for it to provide easy installation of large packages, in the
form of add-ons.

[...]
> I had in mind a more spartan approach.  We cannot do word processing
> now and we're merely a text editor, albeit with some interesting
> extensions.  I had in mind for the Latin-1 core nothing more than
> basic text editing support + cl + custom + gnats + outgoing mail
> (message mode).[1]

I think we also need cc-mode.  I'm not sure I'd want to use a flavor
of Emacs (or any Unix editor) that doesn't provide facilities for
editing C by default.

> MULE is separated from the source at the file level (not at the
> ifdef level).

Please explain.  You mean you will make MULE (with the slowdown and
everything) the default?  Or that you will break down:

#ifdef MULE
...mule code...
#else /* NOT MULE */
...non-mule code...
#endif /* NOT MULE */

so that the mule code and non-mule code parts go to separate files?
It may prove very hard to do so.

> > 2) All the "big" packages (Gnus, VM, W3, Hyperbole, etc.)  should be
> >    distributed as the add-on packages.  The exception can be those
> >    that we consider exceptionally important, like cc-mode.
> 
> And cl and custom? :-)

And gnats and message.  Yes.  Those are the files we absolutely need
(no smiley about it).  I maintain that even the core XEmacs must be
usable for basic editing.

> > 3) If we have the will and the interest, we can make a Sumo XEmacs
>      ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >    distribution, with the core + our selection of packages.  It would
> >    be something akin to XEmacs the way it is now.
> 
> I'll buy that so long as it is done separately from the core.

Well, adding of packages is supposed to be simple, isn't it?  Then, we
just add all the packages we like, tar+gz-up a 25M tarball, and upload
it to sumo.xemacs.org.

> >> My goal is to make the XEmacs 20.2/Latin-1 core tarball smaller than
> >> the first release of Lucid Emacs as XEmacs (~9.5MB).  The smaller the
> >> better.
> 
> > I think around 12M should be our limit.  9.5 looks too optimistic.
> 
> Too easy, and if you don't aim high, you'll never reach your goal.
> Remember, everything in a package is separately maintained and is not
> in the critical path of a release.

Hmm.  OK -- whatever you wish. :-)

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
I'm sure they'll listen to reason! -- Neal Stevenson, _Snow Crash_

