NETF-1991-03-21   KTH-Stockholm

		High speed services / Real time video pilots
			HSN			RTVP

  	       NETF-HSN@nic.nordu.net   NETF-RTM@nic.nordu.net

		A combined workgroup on topics of high speed
		networking, future NORDUnet network structure,
		what gigabit eating services could be used, etc.

		Attending also Mr. Kevin Moran of  Sprint
		International who earlier same day gave a
		presentation of their Frame Relay services.


Participants:
	H}vards Eidnes		Havard.Eidnes@runit.sintef.no
	Kevin Moran (SPRINT)	UN:K.Moran;O:Sprintintl;A:TMailUK;C:GB
	Harri Salminen		hks@funet.fi
	Matti Aarnio		mea@funet.fi
	Juha Hein{nen		jh@funet.fi
	Petri Ojala		Petri.Ojala@funet.fi
	Mika Uusitalo		uusitalo@tut.fi
	Geir Pedersen		Geir.Pedersen@use.uio.no
	Reijo Metso		gucre@gd.chalmers.se  (guere ?)
	Gunnar Lindberg		lindberg@cs.chalmers.se
	Gardar Nielsen		goggi@rhi.hi.is
	Rolf Nordhagen		Rolf.Nordhagen@use.uio.no
	Bernhard Stockman	boss@sunet.se
	Mats Brunell		matsb@sics.se
	Bjarne ????		?? @ ??
	Hans Eriksson		hans@sics.se
		and others who were listening discussion or didn't
		write their names to a circulated paper.

	Chair:		Hans Eriksson <hans@sics.se>
	Secretary:	Matti Aarnio <mea@funet.fi>



		Discussion started by Juha Hein{nen's views
		of network products, what we do now, what
		COULD be achieved in under a year if PTTs
		get in to the action, and what is "talking
		about the moon".

	Juha:	We have now a stockholm centered star which is
		susceptible to single faults.
	(mea:	Local loop from STI to KTH is SINGLE line using TDM
		for various subchannels.  Have a fault on that, and
		whole NORDUnet breaks apart immediately.  )

	Juha:	We must get a physically fully redundant mesh network.
		(Preferrably creating full connectivity among Stockholm,
		 Helsinki, K|penhagen, and Oslo. <According to his
		 drawing>)

		Using US Sprint Frame Relay connection  CLOUD  to
		connect USA (at least two points) and NORDUnet (with
		at least two connections to cloud) plus whoever of
		central europe wants to join in.

	Juha:	By September-91 there should be FR service available
		(not from US-Sprint in nordic countries, but from
		 other - PTT? - sources.  [mea])

		We need attractive pilot proposals to be given to US-Sprint
		and PTTs.

	Bjarne:	EEPG believes that isosynchronous service is necessary
		(for video confrencing etc --  as long as bandwidth is
		 large enough, transport ends can do buffering to get
		 local dataflow to be constant, but network need not
		 to be such.)
		(Also, isosync is still much of a question of future
		 developements.)

	Mats:	Pilot (network) must be able to support at least our
		current services.

	Juha:	We need to be pilot customers to PTTs and other vendors
		so they will start to implement FRs etc.

	(Juha?)	Also we are able to identify ourself as only large
		nordic organization whose networking solutions and
		technologies are followed closely, and who can promote
		new technologies (like FR) to smaller [and possibly
		more conservative] customers (like businesses.)

	(Moran of Sprint smiling and nodding...)

	Chair:	We should start deploying PhoneTalk etc service pilots
		to people.

	Rolf:	Distant/distance education
	Chair:	Co-authoring!

	Chair:	Rolf's group (USUP) will get users to use all these
		gigabit swallowing services.

	Juha:	HSN group will need to produce a "selling" document with
		buzzwords for politicians  (like  Distance Education.)

	Chair:	On 12th April in Coepenhaken there will be a meeting
		with PTT persons on networking (no politicians).

		This group need to produce within 2 (two) weeks:
		- A technical draft of networking infrastructure
		  -> Mats + Juha
		- Motivation ("needs paper") by  USUP and VAS groups
		  Usage & Users  ( Rolf + Mea + Hks )
		  Inventory of:
			- existing HSN
			- planned  HSN
			- needed   HSN

		How to deploy any multimedia pilots ?  What there is ?
		- PhoneTalk
		- PicturePhoneTalk
		- ISDN as carrier for something ?
		- ST2 as carrier for something ?

		To whom to deploy them ?
		Or who does something with MultiMedia ?
		  PhoneTalk -- 1/2 hour work on Sparc.
			KTH-SICS, UiO,  Finland ?
		  Co-Authoring

		  Lund has some multimedia going on using 2Mbps
		  codecs  (dentisis etc.)

		  UiO has multimedia lab, but no network infrastructure
		  (coming soon, maybe even 34Mbps?)

	Rolf:	Look for Mac users for potential on video confrencing.

	Mea:	Space/Astronomy/Physics need tremendous bandwidths
		for remote experiments.  (Not everybody wants to go
		to top of the mountain for one weeks nights to make
		measurements -- technicians are for that ;-) )

	Hks:	We must make a reservation of capacity for network
		management, othervice these PicturePhoneTalks will
		kill our network in no time flat.  (By not leaving
		any bandwidth for management, and saturating all lines.)

	Chair:	Lets not jump straight on to gigabit speeds on NORDUnet,
		as step from 64kbps to 1Gbps is so huge.  Better to do
		intermediate steps and to fill every of those.
		Carrier and switching technologies for each speed class
		are less or more different and demanding when speed
		increases.

	Mats:	FR cloud initial speeds should be at least 2Mbps.

	Chair:	PicturePhoneTalk should fit into 384kbps by using good
		state of the art codecs.  (In live, fairly hight quality.)