Date:	Thu, 24 Jun 1993 10:59:48 -1000
From:	WVOSS@novell.com (Wes Voss)
Message-Id: <WVOSS.29.0@novell.com>
Organization: Novell, Inc
Subject: Stall Landing

I've been trying to teach myself something, and wondering if some of you might 
have some tips.

I've seen some nice stall landings being done by experience flyers. I'm sure 
you've all seen it a hundred times, and most of you can do it. 

You fly to the edge of the window. As it starts to stall, you can either a) 
simply drop to the ground, ready to launch again, or b) do a 360 and drop to 
the ground ready to lauch. Simple, right?

Well, I guess I'm not coordinated enough, because I can't seem to get it 
smooth. My problem is that when I try to point the nose up, either I get some 
wind and I start to rise agin, or I end up heading right again. I have tried 
walking forward to stall it further, and it lands (roughly) and then starts to 
fall forward. 

When I was out flying a few weeks ago, I saw a guy do 3 landings in a row, 
complete with 360s. I watched, and can't see what I am doing differently. I 
think it is more than a practice issue; I'm missing something. He mentioned 
something about "dumping the wind" from the sail as being one of the reasons 
for doing the 360. Besides, it looks cool. <G>

Any help? Am I missing something?

Wes

--------------------------------------------------
Wes Voss
Internet: wvoss@novell.com
MHS: WVOSS@NOVELL

Standard Disclaimer: Yeah, these are my opinions,
and no one else's... You know the rest...
--------------------------------------------------


 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 


Date:	Thu, 24 Jun 1993 21:18:05 -1000
From:	tanaka_be@swam1.enet.dec.com
Message-Id: <9306250715.AA12328@enet-gw.pa.dec.com>
Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University
Subject: Stall tips


Wes Voss writes:	

>Subj:	Stall Landing
>I've been trying to teach myself something, and wondering if some of you might 
>have some tips.
>You fly to the edge of the window. As it starts to stall, you can either a) 
>simply drop to the ground, ready to launch again, or b) do a 360 and drop to 
>the ground ready to lauch. Simple, right?
>Well, I guess I'm not coordinated enough, because I can't seem to get it 
>smooth. My problem is that when I try to point the nose up, either I get some 
>wind and I start to rise agin, or I end up heading right again. I have tried 
>walking forward to stall it further, and it lands (roughly) and then starts to 
>fall forward.

Sounds like the point at which your fly lines are attached to your bridle,
should be adjusted down a bit, toward the tail of your kite.  This is a 
sensitive adjustment which is usually done in 1/8" increments.  This will
reduce forward speed and drive and allow your kite to turn sharp enough
to actually stall.  As you turn the kite up, your hands should be near your
chest so that when you want stall it, you can just push your hands forward
to induce slack into the lines, and kill forward drive.  Walk forward if
necessary.  If your kite is adjusted too high, it will have a tendency
to just flounder around its turns, and to seem to always want to drive
forward too quickly.

A side note to this is that this is an excellent maneuver to practice
monitoring line tension with.  I use the Ron Reich grip where the bottom
three fingers of each hand grasp the handle, and the forefinger is extended
along the fly line to monitor line tension.  Once you get used to it,
you will find that this grip signicantly enhances control.

Good Winds,
	Bert Tanaka
	 Digital Equipment
	  West Covina, Ca.   


 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 


Date:	Fri, 25 Jun 1993 04:44:37 -1000
From:	Wes_Voss@Novell.COM (Voss, Wes)
Message-Id: <802A2B2C01380070@MHS.Novell.COM>
Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University
Subject: Re: Stall tips

Thanks for your response, Bert...

>Sounds like the point at which your fly lines are attached to your 
bridle,
>should be adjusted down a bit, toward the tail of your kite.  This is a 
>sensitive adjustment which is usually done in 1/8" increments.  This 
will
>reduce forward speed and drive and allow your kite to turn sharp enough
>to actually stall.  As you turn the kite up, your hands should be near 
your
>chest so that when you want stall it, you can just push your hands 
forward
>to induce slack into the lines, and kill forward drive.  Walk forward if
>necessary.  If your kite is adjusted too high, it will have a tendency
>to just flounder around its turns, and to seem to always want to drive
>forward too quickly.

Bert, are you familiar with the NSR? Last night I was sitting there 
thinking about how to adjust those points. I got thinking that I have 
that adjustable outhaul. Lee mentioned that by adjusting his outhaul it 
fixed his problem. I'm wondering, would shortening the outhaul have the 
same effect as moving the clips?

>A side note to this is that this is an excellent maneuver to practice
>monitoring line tension with.  I use the Ron Reich grip where the bottom
>three fingers of each hand grasp the handle, and the forefinger is 
extended
>along the fly line to monitor line tension.  Once you get used to it,
>you will find that this grip signicantly enhances control.

I've heard that before. I would like to try it, but I don't see how you 
my finger would reach the lines with my Skyclaws. I mean, would it help 
to be monitoring tension on the top connecting line that leads down to 
the actual lines? Or are you referring to another type of handle? I have 
lately been thinking about trying straps or something else to give me a 
better feel for the line. I understand the Moran handles are nice and I 
guess they are configured with the line between 2 fingers so you could 
realistically place a finger on the line itself.  Any suggestions? How do 
you do it?

Thanks again to everyone out here who is being so patient with my 
questions!

ADVthanksANCE

Wes Voss
wvoss@novell.com


 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 


Date:	Fri, 25 Jun 1993 08:07:23 -1000
From:	tanaka_be@swam1.enet.dec.com
Message-Id: <9306251804.AA11783@enet-gw.pa.dec.com>
Organization: Division of Applied Sciences, Harvard University
Subject: Re: stalls and grip technique


Wes Voss writes:	

<Subj:	Re: Stall tips
<Bert, are you familiar with the NSR? Last night I was sitting there 
<thinking about how to adjust those points. I got thinking that I have 
<that adjustable outhaul. Lee mentioned that by adjusting his outhaul it 
<fixed his problem. I'm wondering, would shortening the outhaul have the 
<same effect as moving the clips?

The NSR has an adjustable outhaul that can be used in combination with
the long bridle adjustment.  Lee is right.  Changing the outhaul 1"
is roughly equal to moving the clips on the long bridle 1/8".  Shortening
the outhaul = lowering the clips.  Lengthening the outhaul = raising
the clips.  Its all very interactive.  Generally speaking, long outhauls
will also give you slightly better spin by keeping the kite in a vertical
plane with its revolution.  Short outhauls give you a slower, more "layed
back" spin (as Marty S. calls it), but with better recovery OUT of the 
spin/turn back onto a line.  
A lot of flyers that do a lot of ground work prefer the outhauls
adjusted on the short side, and with the swivels adjusted low. Once this
optimum position has been established, I leave the long bridle adjustment
alone, and will lengthen the outhaul for low wind only, because its easy
to find the same spot on the outhaul when normal winds return.  IMO, the 
NSR is an excellent kite for ground work and stalls, if you can get used
to the pull (it seems to perform best when its pulling hard). 

Subj:    Re: Ron Reich grip

<I've heard that before. I would like to try it, but I don't see how you 
<my finger would reach the lines with my Skyclaws. I mean, would it help 
<to be monitoring tension on the top connecting line that leads down to 
<the actual lines? Or are you referring to another type of handle? I have 
<lately been thinking about trying straps or something else to give me a 
<better feel for the line. I understand the Moran handles are nice and I 
<guess they are configured with the line between 2 fingers so you could 
<realistically place a finger on the line itself.  Any suggestions? How do 
<you do it?

Can't use this technique on a Moran handle.  Moran's are more comfortable
to some flyers, though.   Personal preference I guess.
You can actually use the Sky Claw the way it is.  Just grab them like
a set of ski poles with your thumb on top of the ends of them.  You
may have to attach your lines off center to the handle so that the handle
will remain vertical in your grip.  Sky Claws were my first grips and I
still really like them (I like the diameter of the grip, and the feel of
the material they use).  I took my old Claws, and using a radial saw, shortened
them by cutting the ends off where the lines go into the handle.  They're
approx. 4 inches long.  Then I re-drilled holes for the cord, right thru the
covering and all.  These are my favorite handles.  I had to tie the cord
so that the knots were in the "front" of the handle so that they wouldn't
rub into my palms.  Very comfortable.  For high wind I use straps.  Using
Ron's technique, your index finger can be used to not only monitor line
but also for fine control on some stunts, such as stalls.  And, believe
me, you'd be amazed at how much a good basic technique such as this one
can help you.  

Hope this helps, you!

Bert Tanaka 


 = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = 


Date:	Fri, 25 Jun 1993 05:53:06 -1000
From:	jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu (Jeffrey C. Burka)
Message-Id: <20f712$3q8@umd5.umd.edu>
Organization: University of Maryland at College Park
Subject: Re: Stall tips

In article <802A2B2C01380070@MHS.Novell.COM> Wes_Voss@Novell.COM (Voss, Wes) writes:

>Bert, are you familiar with the NSR? Last night I was sitting there 
>thinking about how to adjust those points. I got thinking that I have 
>that adjustable outhaul. Lee mentioned that by adjusting his outhaul it 
>fixed his problem. I'm wondering, would shortening the outhaul have the 
>same effect as moving the clips?

No, shortening the outhauls does *not* do the same as moving the clip up
and down.

Moving the clip changes the kite's angle of attack, whereas the outhaul
changes the amount of dihedral in the kite (in fact, on the NSR and NSE, 
you can adjust between an anhedral and a dihedral).

When you move the clip down (marks up), you "let out the nose."  This makes
the kite flatter to the wind.  The kite becomes slower, pulls harder, and
turns faster.  As you might guess, though, this also can hurt the kite's
low-wind abilities.  Some folks adjust a kite for the wind they're flying
in.  Some folks have different kites with optimal settings that they
pull out depending on wind conditions.  And some kites need virtually no
bridle adjustment once the sweetspot is found (the Tracer and Pro both
fall into this category).  Some kites will need the bridle adjusted a bit
as the sail stretches.

Changing the outhaul will, amongst other things, vary the amount of
oversteer your kite has.

During the workshop I took with Alan Ngao at Wildwood, he mentioned that
he used to set his NSR's outhaul to between the first and second green dots.
And I believe he also set the main bridle on the black mark.  I'd have to
go check one of my Extremes, which I set up the way he'd mentioned about
a month ago.
 
>I've heard that before. I would like to try it, but I don't see how you 
>my finger would reach the lines with my Skyclaws. 

One simple way to try this out would be to larkshead the flying line directly
around the center of the SkyClaw and let the harness hang limp.

>I have 
>lately been thinking about trying straps or something else to give me a 
>better feel for the line. I understand the Moran handles are nice and I 
>guess they are configured with the line between 2 fingers so you could 
>realistically place a finger on the line itself.  Any suggestions? How do 
>you do it?

I used thin wrist straps for a while until I bought my pair of Morans.  Now
I wouldn't be without the Morans!  Handles/straps are definitely a subjective
thing; everybody has a different opinion on what's comfortable and gives
good feedback.  My own feeling is that the Morans are the best around.  In
most winds, I hold the handle with my thumb on the top, my three bottom fingers
gripping the bottom of the handle, and the line resting on my index finger
for feedback.  If the wind is too high for that, I just grip it like a 
skyclaw with the harness in between my middle and ring fingers.

In superultralight conditions, I usually use finger straps, or occasionally
just fly directly from the sleeving (this can be dangerous if the sleeving
is thin and the wind picks up...)

Jeff

-- 
|Jeffrey C. Burka     | "When I look in the mirror, I see a little clearer/ |
|SAFH Lite [tm]       |  I am what I am and you are you too./  Do you like  |
|jeffy@syrinx.umd.edu |  what you see?  Do you like yourself?"  --N. Cherry |