From xemacs-m  Tue Apr 29 19:47:58 1997
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To: Bill Dubuque <wgd@martigny.ai.mit.edu>
Cc: xemacs-beta@xemacs.org
Subject: Re: delbackspace, pc-select.el, etc
References: <199704300032.AA004450332@martigny.ai.mit.edu>
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From: Gary.Foster@Corp.Sun.COM (Gary D. Foster)
Date: 29 Apr 1997 17:47:46 -0700
In-Reply-To: Bill Dubuque's message of Tue, 29 Apr 1997 20:32:10 -0400
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Bill Dubuque <wgd@martigny.ai.mit.edu> writes:

> A couple of things to keep in mind regarding delbackspace, pc-select.el, etc.
> 
> [1] Some people just want to achieve the bindings 
> 
>     BS  = backward-delete-char[-untabify]
>     Del = delete-char

This can't happen, though, until we get past the problem of these
keysyms being joined at the hip.  I'll see about severing these and
then playing with the other stuff.

> 
> but others want more extensive PC/MS-Win compatibility, including
> standard CUA keybindings.
> 

That's why I'll throw out a complete list of the bindings that I throw 
into this hacked pc-select for general torching by everyone.  As
always, the majority *may* get to choose which way they go, but I'll
certainly hack my local copy before I'll use something completely
stupid. :)

> [2] Swapping the BS and Del bindings is very tricky because certain
> modes (most programming language modes) manipulate these keybindings
> when the major-mode is entered. Ben Wing added a hack to Win-Emacs
> to get around this problem by adding hooks to such major-modes
> (e.g. lisp-mode-hook, c-mode-hook ...) that fixup the bindings just
> after the major mode is established, but even that is not always
> correct. Similar problems abound with manipulation of the bindings
> in one's Emacs init file, so that no matter what time you try
> to fixup/swap the BS and Del bindings, you're bound to still have
> cases where it doesn't do the right thing. Anyone who attempts to
> edit these files should be sure to grok these issues.

I know, I know... frankly I'm scared to death of putting myself into
the breach like this, but I guess if it's gonna be "fixed" [1] so that 
people can start relying on it that means SOMEONE has to take the
arrows.  I guess I'll be taking a swing at being the target for it. :)

Hopefully, if we can *finally* start guaranteeing _consistent_ behavior
wrt BS and Del maybe people won't have to hack this stuff anymore in
all their individual packages.  Frankly, I really don't give a hoot if 
Del is bound to 'delete-char' or 'backward-delete-char', all I really
care about is making sure they provide different keysyms so that
people can give them the behavior they personally want them to have.
As long as it's "fixed" [1] for most people, and easily configurable
for the rest I think it's an overall win.

I think I'll be perverse and bind 'Del' to "save-buffers-kill-emacs"
in my site-init file just to teach them all to use C-d instead of
Del. (big big big evil grin)

Footnotes: 
[1]  "fixed" being a relative term, of course

