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Subject: Re: 19.15 b4
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From: Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr>
Date: 17 Dec 1996 22:47:11 +0100
In-Reply-To: Steven L Baur's message of 17 Dec 1996 13:29:59 -0800
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Steven L. Baur (steve@miranova.com) wrote:
> Hrv> Will it slow down too much loading of the first C file?
> It didn't bother me as much as I thought it would when Emacs did it.

OK.  We'll see in the betas anyway.

> Hrv> Which else major modes are also dumped?
> (Doing a quick scan down prim/loadup.el)
> text-mode
> lisp-mode
> lisp
> ls-lisp

lisp-mode?  Shouldn't this be emacs-lisp-mode?  `C-h f lisp-mode RET'
gives:
lisp-mode: ()
  -- an interactive compiled Lisp function.
Major mode for editing Lisp code for Lisps other than GNU Emacs Lisp.

> Plus some other stuff associated with text-mode.  Text-mode must
> stay.

Of course.  :-)

> The others are possible candidates, but not without further
> reorganization.  (Not for 20.0 or 19.15, but perhaps for 20.1) I would
> like to revisit the decision to drop the user in a lisp interaction
> mode buffer.  While the experienced user knows what to do this, the
> biggest mistake I've seen when handing XEmacs to new users is that
> they start typing text in that buffer.

Did I miss something in XEmacs?  What's wrong with typing text in the
*scratch* buffer?  Oh, you mean the "real" text, not just a line or
two?  Well, even then, it's not too problematic.

> The *scratch* buffer is so useful once you know what do with it, that
> I'm not suggesting that it go away.  It just seems to me we could
> provide a nicer default for the first buffer entered.  The current
> behavior, nice as it is for advanced users, violates the principle of
> least surprise to a novice user.  When a text editor is started, one
> should expect to immediately be able to enter text.  Getting a lisp
> interpreter instead is a little weird.

Well, this is Emacs, not an ordinary editor.  Besides, to get the lisp
interpreter stuff, you have to press keys like C-j, M-C-x and such.  I
believe the "normal" users will press plain RET.

> What I eventually want to see in the default distributed dumped XEmacs
> is a functional *text* editor and nothing more.  Other favorite
> packages can be dumped with site-load.el, and we should provide an
> example or two.

I'm not sure what you mean here.  That there are many other things
that shouldn't be dumped, too?  Maybe 20.0 would be a good time to
implement dynamic loading.

> Hrv> E.g. if emacs-lisp-mode is dumped too, we should probably
> Hrv> autoload it also.
> We cannot autoload anything required to get into the default startup
> lisp interaction *scratch* buffer.

You're right; it wouldn't make much sense.

> Hrv> * Q: What is an experienced Emacs user?
> Hrv> * A: A person who wishes that the terminal had pedals.
> 
> Isn't that a recommended way now to avoid carpal tunnel?

ROTFL!

-- 
Hrvoje Niksic <hniksic@srce.hr> | Student at FER Zagreb, Croatia
--------------------------------+--------------------------------
`VI' - An editor used by those heretics that don't subscribe to
       the Emacs religion.

