Path: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews.google.com!news1.google.com!Xl.tags.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local02.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 12:39:31 -0500 Subject: ADMIN: Flame FAQ (02 Apr 05) From: Meffy Ellis Newsgroups: alt.callahans Organization: Mustelid Pythonistas of the World User-Agent: bakedbeans 0.3.1 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 01 Oct 2008 12:39:31 -0500 Lines: 184 X-Usenet-Provider: http://www.giganews.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.125.194.182 X-Trace: sv3-lDOTMkmd2/VPWl5UxdWuXxJHBtZwV7ahnVELGJgktTbG9oVZY4uKTVKfR3vhR88aJQHLI9pSmOy8Xp5!EQo8JbhQIMBU1mshGJ+vdy6S+BWwmT+84Gz94PUS6cH2kDv+L4AxplRTdjVgnr1/wieO/bpUEYZA!7peXZDLUi2wxb0aLSBDqvvE+MZM7uME= X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.39 Xref: senator-bedfellow.mit.edu alt.callahans:907974 Flames This is a post about flames and what we do about them in Callahan's. Please read it through carefully and help us keep flames and emotional injuries to a minimum by practising the policies described. If you're new to the Net and don't know what a ``flame'' is, then we hope you never have to learn first-hand. A flame is basically a nasty, deliberately hurtful, insulting, derogatory or abusive post. It's a shame they exist anywhere, but Callahan's is generally a group with less flamage than most others. That's a good thing, and we hope you'll agree we should keep it that way. Contents * What to do About Flames * When Someone Attacks You * People are Not Perfect * Avoiding Accidental Flamage * When You are Charged with Attacking What to do About Flames So what do we do if someone starts acting mean to you or someone else in Callahan's? The simple guideline is: ignore it. If you want to ask the person being nasty to stop, send e-mail. If you want to tell them they're an idiot, go have a cold shower. Do not post return flames - people will start thinking of you as a disruptive flamer too. Flamewars often cause a lot of people to get extremely upset and hurt. We don't want that to happen. The only way to stop flames is to not post any yourself. Believe us. Callahan's has lived through many flamewars in the past, and we don't want to have to do so again. Please note that disagreeing with someone is perfectly okay. Telling them they're stupid (or worse) because they disagree with you is not. Also, it usually isn't effective at getting them to listen to you, much less at converting them to your opinion. Another option is to post something funny. One of the more infamous Callahan's flamewars evolved into laughter when a patron posted a ``movie review'' which included critiques of the special effects and acting involved in the flame posts. This needs some creativity, but the results can be quite amusing, making good things out of bad. Avoid public discussions of a Patron's personality or posting style. Such discussions easily become intrusive and rude, and sound more like ``Let's all gang up on so-and-so'' rather than something constructive. Many Patrons here find this type of discussion even ruder than flames. Example: Patron A says something. Patron B questions it, and calls Patron A an idiot. At this point, patron C has two options: ignore it; or start calling patron B an asshole for being so insulting. The former option helps prevent flames, the latter fans them. In fact, this is exactly how almost every flamewar in Callahan's has started - because of patron C. So if two people start going head to head at each other - mind your own business. Important: All of these suggestions go a long way in reducing flames in Callahan's, but the Place should also be supportive. The flamee (the one being flamed) can often use some words of encouragement. Ignoring a flame thread may easily be misinterpreted as ignoring the person who is being flamed. This can feel like rejection, especially if this person is a relative newcomer. So if it looks as if someone is getting flamed or is being ignored, it's a nice idea to e-mail a quick message to them, asking if everything is all right, or sending some message of support. Or, post a neutral message supporting the flamee, without referring to the flames or the flamer at all. Not only will you be helping a flamethread to die down, but you will be doing something active and constructive to assist another Patron (the flamee) and after all, that's part of what Callahan's is about. When Someone Attacks You Once more: ignore it. Ignoring flames is respected here in Callahan's. If you ignore a flame, you are not ``backing down'' or ``quitting''. It does not imply that you are conceding any points - it simply says ``You disagree with me, and you clearly aren't listening to me, so I'm dropping the argument.'' If you like, you can actually post this statement, but do it politely and then stand by it. If you post anything inflammatory back, then you are just as much to blame. It takes two to fight. If someone in a discussion starts attacking you personally rather than your arguments, take a breather (for an hour or more), and then analyse the post. Are there legitimate arguments in there, or is it just a personal attack? If there are points to which you can respond, do so, ignoring the attacks. You could also e-mail the person about the attacks, politely asking them to stop. If it continues, or there is no substance to their argument, ignore that person entirely. You can stay in the discussion if you want, but ignoring the attacks will help stop escalation into a full-blown flamewar. Another important thing to consider is that maybe you are taking things the wrong way. It's possible the person you think is attacking you is just stating something rather tactlessly, and they have no real gripe against you. Also, at least in Callahan's, most pushing of 'hot buttons' is unintentional. Don't assume the worst. If you start yelling, there will always be people who think you were the first one to get nasty. People are Not Perfect Remember, nobody's perfect. People often have ``hot buttons'' - topics which make them extremely emotional, and these do not magically go away in Callahan's. If you accidentally start a topic which hits someone's ``hot button'', you need to be careful. You can keep talking, but be aware that reasoning with someone whose ``hot button'' has been pressed is difficult, and can end up being painful if you are not prepared for the results. Also be aware that this can be true no matter how calm, reasonable, and polite that person normally is. If you don't think you can stay calm on the topic, just drop it. It'll earn you more respect than pulling out the napalm. Sometimes Patrons will discuss something which hurts other Patrons. and this may not be obvious. For example, a discussion of toy trains may seem innocuous - but to a Patron whose pet was just run over by a train, this may be extremely painful. We don't want to limit the topics discussed in Callahan's, so we all have to be aware that everybody thinks differently about things. Be tolerant. If a topic which makes you uncomfortable arises, you can always skip the thread. This both allows those interested in the topic to continue, and saves you a lot of grief. Do not tell anybody to ``shut up''. If people are actually flaming each other, you can send e-mail asking them to cool it, but remember: In public, ignore it. Avoiding Accidental Flamage Misinterpretation is a common cause of flames, and one which can be minimised with some care. Posts convey only one thing: The words you have written. There is no tone of voice, and no facial expression. This means it is easy to mistake a humorous remark for an insult. The smiley symbol :-) was invented to mark non-serious comments intended as jokes. Some people think it's silly and don't use it, but they are the ones who attract replies like, ``Are you serious? I can't believe how stupid you are!'' If you use humour, use the smiley. Another thing to remember - which will help stop you from posting things which other people might think are flames - is that Callahan's is different from most newsgroups. We often discuss controversial topics here. Other groups devoted to such discussions are often just continuous raging flame-fests, where it helps to be gruff and loud in order to be heard. Here that sort of behaviour is inappropriate and will get you ignored. So if you are used to debating more heatedly in another group, take a second to check your flamethrower at the door. Perhaps more practically, don't post to Callahan's immediately after reading some group which always gets your blood boiling. When You are Charged with Attacking We're all human. No matter our best intentions, we'll have bad days, be shorter-tempered, communicate poorly, and misunderstand things. And more often than not it is misunderstanding which leads to hot tempers. But none of us think of ourselves as the ``bad guys,'' so we may not even realise when we've hurt someone, stepped on toes, or crossed a line. If you ever get e-mail from someone saying you ``personally attacked'' them, think about it for a while (again, at least an hour - go have a snack) before responding. You may have crossed the line, even in your own opinion. And you definitely crossed the line according to theirs. That person is no longer viewing you as a person discussing a different point of view, but as an attacker. If you still have points you want to make, tone it down, and they will be more likely to listen to you. An apology will go a long way to helping. Continue the way you did and they will just ignore you. And if anyone ever suggests you owe an apology for something you said, take it seriously. You have obviously upset somebody, whether you intended to or not. You can mention that you never intended to hurt anybody and apologise for inadvertently doing so. This will earn you respect, whereas ignoring the pain you have caused will certainly not. _________________________________________________________________ Thanks to /*, John Palmer, Aahz, Randolph Fritz, Caithelin, Beth, Gecko-Boy, kitten, Brandon, Firehawk, Janet Miles, and undoubtedly many others. If you have any suggestions for changes to this file, please email Mephistoff Ellis at .